All of these religious-Right people think being "Christian" is what matters, when what matters is being "Christ like" (Santorum, listen up). As for ethics (Romney, listen up), these are completely forgotten along with morals (Gingrich, listen up). But the worst of these are those who place themselves on pedestals and preach their "pious baloney" to others -- That's all of them.

What religious oppression? I guess Santorum thinks that if religious people aren't allowed to oppress others, then they are being oppressed. What a dingusaur!

This has nothing to do with religious freedom, and it never did. This is purely an issue of equality, and was settled long ago. I am at liberty to be free from your religion, Santorum. You are not free to discriminate against my gender.

As with most religious folks I've talked with THEIR religion is the RIGHT one, all others are a false religion and their worshipers are being deluded. Exactly what Santorum is saying!

My religion is better than your religion shouldn't have any place in a presidential race in any case since we are a secular nation with a secular judicial system but that's exactly what the far right are using to stir up their base.

Gentle Warrior

Another mind reader..../sigh/

Well this just begs a couple of questions. First, consider the source. The first question is what does Santini not understand about the separation of church and state???

The second question: How do you make policy based on 100 different interpretations depending on the "theology" one subscribes to? Answer: You don't. This is precisely why the U.S. doesn't have daily suicide bombings being carried out by secular extremists. Religion has its place and its not in government policy. Period!

If churches and religious zealots want to dictate law and policy, then jerk the "tax exempt" status from every church in this country and let the games begin. This idiot is pure horsecrap.

Santorum obviously thinks we need an Inquisitor in Chief.

You're next America - do you have the "right" theology? Santorum will decide.

Ollie you've got a brother, Ram. And your both racists, I guess it runs in the family.

Nora, you are right. People forget about the third clause of Article VI of the US Constitution:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

That is where the separation of church and state is entered into the constitution, along with the First Amendment. While Congress can't make any law respecting an establishment of religion, or the prohibiting of the free exercise thereof, that same freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. No religious body should ever have the right to deny any individual their freedom to pursue life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness through efforts to get Congress (or for that matter any state legislature since state laws have to conform to the requirements of the US Constitution) to pass any kind of law that restricts those rights. That is what the Catholic bishops, the Mormon Church, the religious right, etc., are all trying to do. Santorum is a blatant example of these violations of the constitution.

John, 100 interpretations????? Try millions of interpretations. There are thousands of denominations and sects in the US today, all claiming that THEIR religion is the RIGHT and TRUE one.

Santorum is all wrong in his opinion about oppression. President Obama is preventing men, and in particular Catholic and Evangelical Christian men, from oppressing women.

Headline should read -- Sanatorium Panders To The Religious Right Fanatics to garner votes....or whatever group happens to be the flavor of the day.

I'm in a charitable mood today. I'm going to be easy on these goofy republicans. The mainest problem with all of 'em is; they are all "pixilated".

Santorum is just using this platform to avid talking about the real issues at hand. This guy is a phony. If he was such a dedicated christian then his charitable donations would have been 10% or greater,they were only 1.6%. A True dedicated christian tithe a minimum of 10% because that what the bible dictates. This guy is a big hypocrite.

YEA!!! Good old fashion Christian hatred! When do we start burning 'witches' again?

Hate is always better when you say it's Gods will, huh, Christians? Just like the Muslims do, right?

If Santorum doesn't like Obama's belief system, I wonder how he'll feel about mine? I wonder what he's going to do or say to me, since I don't believe in his religion. What is he going to do to everyone who believes differently than he does? What makes his interpretation of his religion any better than my interpretation of my religion? Why does religion play into anything regarding his political campaign? I think someone needs to shut his mouth and respect others. Obviously, this is not a person who I would want to be associated with, let alone vote for. I can only wonder, who would?

Santorum doesn't realize that the moral code he attributes to the left is exactly the moral code of the men who founded this country and wrote the constitution.

Saying the left is forcing there moral values on anybody is hypocrisy at its finest. They forget about all the anti-abortion rhetoric they throw out.

Lets see, Obama annoyed a few people at the top of the catholic church who protect pedophiles. Santorum wants to force his religious beliefs and take away from all women. Somehow I think Obama wins again when it comes to being a decent human being.

Making up stupid sounding names for the president makes you sound stupid. The problem with the republicans is they have run out of real things to criticize him on so now its come down to juvenile name calling and questioning his faith. You and Santorum make a very good uneducated inept couple.

Cease and desist. When your moral foundation rests on your belief in an invisible guy, you are in trouble. Has everyone forgotten Flip Wilson? We laughed when he said, "The devil made me do it." Why isn't as funny or ridiculous when Santorum essentially says, "The invisible guy tells me the way you should conduct your sex life."?

Have we lost our minds? This guy is crazy. He stands in front of people and says he knows the truth because he knows the invisible guy. He hears voices. And people want to vote for this guy? They give him money? They believe what he says?

This is great. Put this guy in a room with his invisible friend and give him the button that launches nuclear weapons.

Special underwear. Invisible sky guys. Jewish virgins giving birth. Golden tablets. Stone tablets. Salamanders. Walking on water.

These guys are just plain nucking futs.

spider737231, keep drinking that kool aid, good luck with that.

I heard that a preponderance of Catholic women USE birth control........Most.....I mean this is 2012, is it not?...and the world is WELL populated, is it not?..........

So another republican, Mr. Santorum, works desperately to mix church and state, while he himself, through his own public declaration, stands at the ready to lead the most powerful country in the world at his behest following HIS OWN personal religious beliefs..............isn't that what Santorum said President Obama is doing?

Republicans, you gotta give them credit, they are nothing if not consistent....they lie, as in make up fictional stuff as they go along and they love to state exactly what THEY THEMSELVES ARE DOING and label it is their opponents doings....

republicans believe that if you talk over everyone else and are louder than everyone else that somehow that makes their lies truth (notice next time you watch a republican on tv, they talk loud, they interrupt and they do not allow others to talk--they just keep talking and getting louder and louder and they ALL use exactly the same words and phrases, without answering any questions directly and laugh is you catch them in a lie and call it rhetoric or a red herring, as though they all log on to a main web site and get the word and phrase for the day--further proof that republicans cannot think for themselves but are mindless followers who are blissful in their ignorance and blind in their duties as assigned by the few powerful who lead the entire party............wow, the basis for a new religion.........SCREAMERS.

the Catholic church is outdated........a chasm ever growing between their leaders and the followers...why cannot a person of the Catholic church believe in God and their church and NOT bring children into the world? This archaic thinking will ultimately cause a division in the Catholic church...which is how so many new faiths were born as they broke away from the original churches.

Man, the Vatican is really going to miss all the money from those leaving the church to begin their own Catholic-Light church...............and about time.

Thanks Santorum, for pointing our how archaic the Vatican is and how now is the time for Catholic-Light to be born..........one birth that is LONG PAST due..........

As for Santorum..............you bare false witness (that means lie), you definately covet what the President has, you mix church and state (by the way, what ARE you running for...Deacon or President?) and you DO NOT have the best interests of the people of America at heart (for we are diverse and we must ALL be a consideration when governing) but you ARE doing your level best to attain the most powerful position in the world so YOU may bring your VERSION of order to all Americans.....the President serves ALL the people, Mr. Santorum, not only the few who would vote for you and YOUR IDEOLOGY.

But what really bothers me most here, and should bother the faithful, just and righteous, is the FACT that you lie as a regular diet Mr. Santorum..................thou shalt not lie is a biggy across that ideological board..........

Wonder who Rick Sanitorium....err Santorum will pick for his running mate? It's sure to be a doozy.

Santorum the Vatican candidate once again is out of touch with 88% of the people of the USA ..His silly cult beliefs make him ANTI AMERICAN..he will divide the USA not unite us !

So Obama's effort to do his part as our elected President in maintaining our representative democracy, complying to the U.S. Constitution -- and in regards to this issue, protecting and enhancing the rights of women in our country are all a, "phoney theology"?

How would Santorum know? Does he believe that God personally talks to him, and tells him what's phoney and what's real in the entirety of the multiverse? Who in the hell does Santorum think he is, anyhow?

spider:

Try looking up "Mammy". That's why "Obammy" is racist.

If you want to challenge Obama feel free to do so based on his political track record and rhetoric.

I'd like to know whose religious freedom he thinks is being oppressed. Seems to me President Obama is supporting the rights of individual women to make their own birth control decision regarding the church's rule. If preventing a church from forcing their views on their non-believer employees is opression of religious freedom, then I'm all for it.

He's just following the constitution... separation of brain and state. What a crock. All the false drama coming from the right is making me puke. It matters not how many presidents, senators, representatives, governors, or mayors do the same thing... if Obama did it, it's war against the church. What about the majority of church goers that use or condone contraceptives? They don't count. None of us "count". Only their exclusive "club" counts. Only the lies they spew are truth.

And yes, spider, your words are racist. Racist is as perceived. Racist as intended. It's demeaning and targeted at Obama because he is a black man. How else do you define racist? If you are told that people take it as racist, only to say it stronger and more often, then it's racist. Clear enough for you?

Ahhh... All the times that various right-wing, evangelicals have told me that I'm not really a Christian because I belong to a denomination that supports women's rights and marriage equality. Only confirms my belief in the separation of Church and State, because you can bet dollars-to-donuts that if people like Santorum had their way, not only would they attack atheists and people who profess other religions, they would also go after thos "wrong headed Christians" whose doctrines do not align with their views. Moderate and liberal Christians are just as much at risk from Santorum as Muslims and atheists.

Santorum's "theology" is typical Old Testament Christian .... misogynistic, homophobic, wrath of God, man is evil.

President Obama's theology is more New Testament, Sermon on the Mount, kindness to others, helping unfortunates .... you know, the lessons from Christ.

Santorum is using the Big Lie technique perfected by Adolf Hitler. This does not put him in good company. The fact is President Obama merely said businesses run by churches should have to meet the same health insurance requirements as any other business. He was not talking about for people working at the churches themselves, but the insurances companies, schools and other endeavors run by churches. These agencies hire people not of their religion and have no right to force their values on their employees of different religions. I mean if you work for one employer birth control is covered but you work for an agency owned by the RC church and its not. Thats ridiculous, we already give church buisinesses tax exemptions as well as the actual church proper. What more do they want---to shove their beliefs down my throat no thank you.

And at that, President Obama came up with some kind of compromise--which Santorum did not mention--the big lie again.

And I bet none of those bishops are balking at covering viagra and it kith and kin. I would think the RC church would do its own housecleaning before shoving their values at me.

s

As a Republican and Roman Catholic, Santorum scares me. Perhaps he will suggest National Soft-Drink day where we all drink a berry flavored, sugary drink in order to escape those who might seek to curb our religious freedoms.

I am humbly offering my name as a viable candidate for President of the US. I am not a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew (or a Buddhist or a Sikh). I am a woman who is moderate - liberal on some issues and conservative on others. I am an Independent. I am running on the "You've got to be freaking kidding me" ticket.

Phony theology NOT based on the bible? Does this guy forget the inquisiton, hitler's attempt to convert jews to christianity which ultimately became a maddened genocide, the crusades, many historical edicts of forced conversion or being killed or exiled, all originated from the bible? Does this guy forget king james edited the entire bible which used to be 3 entire books to sound more appropriate, molding all known copies after his own special cult which followed predictions which NEVER happened at the year 2000? Does he forget the bible was again edited later multiple times to make it sound more appealing to a modern generation, and THIS is why the bible discusses modern things and not because the prophets knew? Does this guy forget Jesus Christ was NOT a christian, and christianity is NOT following a bible, but following JESUS?

Where do these modern christians incorporate the love of JESUS in any of their hate or persecution, their attempt to rig the government and more and more wars on muslims??? THEY are the phony theology BASED on the bible and I support Obama MORE if he's not one of these lying hypocrites who never even heard "WWJD" in their life.

Santorum is just a few steps away from absurdly labeling President Obama as an agent of the Anti-Christ.

Tomorrow, he'll claim he is, "evil,"

Then the next day he'll label the President as the, "Anti-Christ,"

then on the third day, he'll call him, "The Son of Satan."

And on the fourth day, he'll say that Obama IS Satan. ...and must be destroyed.

And on the fifth day, Santorum declares himself, "President of the United States of America."

And on the sixth day, Rick of the Holiest of Holy Santorums, anoints himself, "Ruler of the World."

...Then Santorum blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which Santorum had created and made. (Rick 2:2)

--------------------------------------------

Obama / Biden, 2012

i know no such thing since what you have posted is completely wrong and inaccurate.

When I was very young I was almost kidnapped in an airport when flying as a minor under the supervision of flight attendants (as to why that was an accepted policy at the time I do not know, for this exact reason. But I was old enough to fly, but still very young.)

A group of people, several children and two well dressed adults, a man and woman, approached me. They kept telling me to go with them and had bibles and told me I can trust them because they have bibles. I never realized just how scary that was until I became older.

Holding a bible, reading a bible, even following a bible means nothing if you are a liar with intent to do evil. "Know them by their fruit." If Jesus isn't the issue, they're not a christian.

Ricky either has forgotten why Pennsylvanians tossed him or is simply a slow learner.

If Catholic girls need pills or condoms they know where they can get them. Obama just made sure that insurance companies would provide them without costs. No one is forcing anyone to take or use them.

Reducing unintended pregnancies reduces health care costs for everyone.

The Christian right is forever trying to force their morality on all of America, look at the gay marriage issue.

Oh great, it's the same old 'My religion is better than your religion' B.S. AGAIN. Hey Rick; IT"S ABOUT THE ECONOMY STUPID !!!!!

"This is just the latest low in a Republican primary campaign that has been fueled by distortions, ugliness, and searing pessimism and negativity -- a stark contrast with the President who is focused everyday on creating jobs and restoring economic security for the middle class," Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt told the New York Times.

This says it all to me. Those who support Santorum are supporting a failed U.S. Senator who went on to become a lobbyist, a do-nothing who has no plan for America. Santorum is itching to start a war with Iran, and with his divisive and arrogant religious rhetoric, he alienates people of good faith everywhere.

Can he somehow become a Catholic priest? He seems to have missed his true calling.

Strange to say that someone doesn't believe in the right version of a make believe set of stories.

Hey everybody! Obama doesn't believe in the real make believe. He believes in a fantasy based on a phony make believe! He believes in the Wozard of Oz but not in the true Wizard of Oz. So vote for me...not him.

Gosh Rick, when you say it like that it makes total sense.

did he just imply religions that don't follow the bible, are not really a religion?

So, Insanitorium, a Latin mass Catholic (with his mumbling mea culpas) says he gets to determine what Christian theology is phony and what isn't and wants to be theocrat-in-chief. I hope all you fundy Protestants who support him (because he wants to teach them gays a lesson). He also, as a Latin mass Catholic, thinks you're all phony Christians, too. You fundies believe in your born-again-once-saved-always-saved stuff. Because of his Latin mass Catholicism, he says that's heresy and you can go to the hot place for commiting a "mortal sin." You fundies believe that you can appease your Jesus the way you want, and he says you can only do so by going to Latin mass on Sundays. You fundies think your communion is just some symbol and he says you are heretics and must believe you are actually cannibalizing the actual body and blood of Jesus. He wants to run this country by persecuting gays, women, etc. because of Jesus and thinks that anyone who doesn't follow his Jesus will also be at the end of that persecution. That includes you, fundies. Now, go ahead and support and vote for him. When he rounds you all up and puts you before the auto de fe for being fundy Protestant heretics and makes you confess (if you do, you get the merciful way of meeting his Jesus by beheading), or sends you to the stake for believing in your Jesus. Not that all of your Jesuses aren't phony, but that's what's going to happen.

Ricky is on shaky ground here. I expect him to deliver an apology to the President by the middle of next week.

Remember, Ricky, you are campaigning for PRESIDENT, not POPE.

Obama believes in that stuff in Wicked about oz. That is not the true Oz story... Read the Wizard of Oz to get the true story!

Hey all of you so called followers of Jesus Christ, when are you going to stop your stupid hypocrisy? You're quick to label anyone that wants to help the poor as a "socialist," while reciting crap from the bible. Take a good look at the life of Jesus Christ and you will find the most ardent socialist that ever existed. Christ had no possessions. Anything and everything he had he freely gave to others, especially to the poor. He didn't interfere in people's lives; he didn't force his beliefs on anyone. He preached what he believed in and let people make up their own minds. You so called righteous "Christians" on the other hand, want to force your beliefs on everyone, because in your warped minds, your beliefs are the only ones that matter. Basically, you're no different than the extreme islamists that will use God's name to justify their atrocities to other human beings.

Santorum is a relic of the dark ages where the church and it's religious dogma ruled everyone's actions. Dare to stray from the dogma, and it was torture, or burned at the stake, or outright execution. Santorum, bible thumpers, evangelicals, born again Christians, etc., have completely lost sight of what Jesus Christ stood for. However, that doesn't stop them from using Christ's name to justify their warped sense of values. All of these quacks scream about abortions, but once the baby is born, they don't give a rats behind if that baby starves to death--HYPOCRITES! Most of them own lavish homes, and other material possessions and want to stop any and all assistance to the poor and disabled--Yeah, just like Jesus Christ, right?!?--HYPOCRITES!

So, stop with your crap about following Christ. You have no clue about what Christ stood for and you have no right to use his name in justifying your warped sense of values. Santorum is the least qualified to preach Christian religion to any one. He's a fake and is using religion to justify he's push at the candidacy. Talk to us about jobs; about improving the economy, about helping this country out of the deficit. Since he can't offer anything worthwhile on those issues, he's pouncing on irrelevant crap. What a LOOSER!!

"It's not about you. It's not about you," Santorum said at a Tea Party rally, directing his comments at the president. "It's not about your quality of life. It's not about your job. It's about some phony ideal, some phony theology. Oh, not a theology based on the Bible, a different theology, but no less a theology."

I can't believe the stupidity of most people on here. Santorum is not trying to say everyone should have his beliefs. He is not saying one belief is better than the other.

Who are you calling stupid, Steven Miller? WE can read! ...apparently you cannot.

Raddave,

You are not familiar with the history of Christianity. The Catholic Church is most definitely NOT the original version of Christianity, and the Catholic Bible contains only a selected few of the writings that Christians considered essential for hundreds of years after the death of Christ.

Have you never heard of the Gnostic Gospels, or the groups of Christians who followed an essentially different version of Christianity? That was the version that emphasized Christ's humanity and taught that Christ charged his followers with realizing what he had realized.

The fact is that the current version of the Catholic Church did not begin to define itself until 325 at the Council of Nicea and the basics for their biblical canon were not in place until almost 350 years after Christ died, when Pope Damascus decided what would and would not be considered scripture.

The version of Christianity that won out is the first political institution to call itself Christian, that much is true. But they never represented the profound Christianity practiced for the first few hundred years after the death of Christ.

Arch Bishop Timothy Dolan was working towards his new hat so he ordered up this exercise.... sorry Cardinal ... you can't sweep this back under the rug... you should have focused on the pedophiles your harboring!

Mike, justice comes from justice. If you don't like justice, that's your right, but it is not somethng I would be proud of.

We judge people by who they are, not by people they once met. Character assassination is xheap politics.

What is Santorum's point?!?

Article 11 in the Treaty of Tripoli (November 4, 1796) begins with:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

And that's just ONE example!!!

David Walker.........tell me more about the salamanders.................................!

You go SantorTaliban; if Bush II, the biggest little rich kid, drunk, druggie and partier can make president by crying religion, you can to. In your wet dream. This time around America is on to you fools.

old fat head-1144960

"How can Obama claim to be a christian while listening to Rev Wright for twenty years?"
Rev Wright is pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ, I agree with what Wright had to say and I am a white X-catholic! Wright as far as projecting christian values puts most other so called Christians to shame!

"...saying they will not pay for it. Why is this a problem?""
Because women not christian in their employ earn it!

"Some religions and blood transfusions... courts have forced parents to get out of the way ... o save the child. I do not think they force the church to pay for the procedure." The church doesn't' moron the insurance does!

"Santorium being catholic is the only reason Obama and the left have made this an issue."
Are you truly stupid Obama didn't make this an issue contraceptives are a basic part of health care... and it has been the law of the land... and in many states a law on the books!
it became a issue because N.Y. Archbishop Dolan (as of yesterday a cardinal) wanted a new hat
No wonder the christian right sees this as a war on religion ... many are dim!

Mike,

Such silliness makes me think that if it were proven that Obama is an alien form the distant planet BlahBlah, you'd not even bat an eye!

The date'

Killing me softly'

Birds of a feather'

Day after day'

Silver blue and gold'

?

Mike in delray-

Your right so many people are going to know who Obama really is. The salvation of America and getting us back on track after the catastrophic Bush II. After that I could care less if he were raise among wolves.

Olddog26 that doesn't make any sense.... plenty of Democrats believe in god many Republicans on the other hand are fools but it has noting to do with faith in god! your proof if it of the latter !

ChrisWanker.....Do you have what it takes to do a search on Black Liberation Theology and also James Cone and come back and tell us what it says ????

jock59801....Justice comes from Truth.....Economic and Social Justice are code words for redistribution of wealth......and Obama was off- teleprompter when he told Joe the Plumber that.....Not against success as long as others share in it.....

Obama believes in phony theology not based on the bible

And Santorum believes in phony theology based on the bible. Does anybody with a mind follow this guy?

Santorum: Are you a signer of the "so-called" , "Norquist Pledge", YES or NO??

Bet a MILLION People want to hear THAT answer?? No answer???

Ram at #1.11, I believe I owe you an apology. I reread your comment and now see you were using sarcasm.

@Wulff

I have zero idea where you get your misguided garbage but please, spare us from it. We have pretty much had it with you self-richest, selfish, pompous clowns who are trying to make us all uneducated like you. I don't think you told the truth in any sentence of your post. This is all Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity Fox news BS talking points with no basis in reality. You people are becoming panicky and kind of ignorant. Go take a pill Skippy.

Who died and made little Ricky GOD!?! The very idea of attacking someone's beliefs!

If you have watched President Obama's conduct while he has been vilified at every turn, while he has been doing his job rather than making drama, you can see that he has met wrath with soft answers and has refrained from passing Judgement on anyone! At least our President's conduct is respectful and if I wanted to show someone an example of a healthy Christian, he and Mrs. Obama would be the first I would use as an example.

You Xtians need to learn about Christianity and practice it in your own lives rather than sticking your noses everywhere - including in women's private and personal business and bodies!

What happen? Did the Texans remove the part of the Bible which speaks of not judging others until you reckon with yourselves? The Christian Community needs to rein in their fundamentalistic radicals! They want our country to be a Xtian Iran!

Mike in Delray

Oh, and by the way.....Obama's Father was a Kenyan and that made him a British Subject.....which means Obama is automatically a British Subject by birth, regardless of his mother's status.....so at best, he has Dual Citizenship......you can go look up the International Rules for Citizenship...I already did, a long time ago.

A whole lot more is going to come out this time about who Obama really is.

Bull@!$%#, our President Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother, that alone trumps everything else, Sorry...birther, try again...lol

If frothy is on the President about his religion, what's he to do with Romney? Mormons believe that Jesus was married, (to 3 women), and had many children. They also claim that their founder was a direct relative of Jesus. Many gods in many universes?

I think I'll have a large dose of separation of church and state and it does frighten me that a religious zealot could once again try to fulfill some fatalistic prophecy.

Mike in Delray,

Do you have what it takes to do a search on Black Liberation Theology and also James Cone and come back and tell us what it says?

Yes, but please enlighten me as to why I should care.

MM:

Check out the "salamander letter". Put that in any search block and you'll pull up any number of references as well as the letter itself.

Think of it in the context of disciples and apostles; largely illiterate men who lived in an age in which there was essentially no science. The salamander letter is merely a modern day stretch.

For a real eye-opener, but unfortunately dry book, you might want to take a stab at The Passover Plot.

Great. Is this what we have come to??? Is this the best the GOP can do??? Bring up religious beliefs into a presidential election???? I didn't even think that idiot of a candidate would go so low as to attack not only Obama's values, but that of me and everyone else who dares to call themselves a liberal or a Democrat. I am a Catholic, and to all those wondering I come to set the record straight. Santorum does not speak for me, or for the rest of the American Catholic population. Not all of us condemn Obama policies; not all of us support the drivel that this idiot is spouting. Not all of us are anti-abortion, anti-contraceptive homophobics. I don't support a lot of the Catholic Church's actions or teaching; nor do millions of Catholics. I pray that you will not think of us as supporters of this terrible, devilish ranting. DAMN YOU SANTORUM!!!!!!!! This man is a right-wing monster, the creation of the Radical Christian Right. He is a waste of a human being and of a Catholic; he makes Americans ashamed to be who they are. This shows that the new Republican Party has no bounds. They will do ANYTHING to best Obama, even if it attacks his personal theology. Man-I thought we were better than this. I thought we lived in a land that may have been founded by Christians, but was open to EVERYONE, Jew and Gentile, Muslim and Buddhist, all under one nationality. But no. They had to do this. They are the reason why America is in trouble, and they are the root of the problem.

theCavalier- What the hell do you know about Catholicism??? We do not worship idols (or saints), and what the hell is with the mummery??? Why don't you keep your bigoted mouth shut and try offering REASONABLE arguments instead of trying to piss off your enemies. You and your bigoted kind ought to just leave this Vine and go back to the cold caves from where you originated!

David Walker-Calm down with the invisible guy stuff. Not to be offensive, as I am a fan of your extremely philosophical comments, but I don't think making the case like that is beneficial.

Ollie and Ram- Shut up. Keep the anti-Obama rants to a minimum, and clean up your sorry act. You are a disgrace to this community and ought to follow Cavalier to his cold cave-home. Come back in a few years when you've matured and can actually present a real argument without the right-wing BS hanging from your mouth.

Gentle Warrior-Why can't you right-wingers present a real argument without shoving blatant right-wing propaganda down our throats?? Keep the anti-Obama rants to a freaking minimum and clean up your sorry act. Follow Ollie and Ram. Maybe you could learn a thing or two from watching how they distort the truth.

To Santorum and his supporters (and to all right-wing religious radicals)-May God have mercy on you, for the American people will NOT. May fire and brimstone fall from the heavens, and let the Angels of God wreak their havoc on the corrupted of this Earth. He who hath corrupted his soul shall pay the ultimate price, and may all who survive learn to accept the voice of reason and reject that of pure ideology and ignorance. You are a disgrace; you claim to be American patriots who love their country, yet everything you do, from bashing Obama and referring to him as a Muslim Marxist to spouting homophobic or anti-birth control and liberal rants makes our nation seem like a cesspool of bigots. All you do is spout "American exceptionalism," when in fact their is no such thing. We may have some traits that the rest of the world does not, but we are no better then the moral policemen of Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia who root out dissidents, or like the Soviets of old who would massacre or imprison innocent priests and religious officials in the name of saving the masses from the "opiate that is religion." You are no better than the Communists and Nazis of old, who would preach to the masses and extol their virtues while ruthlessly persecuted those who begged to differ. You not only criticize the world and make it seem that America is the supreme lord of the Universe (false), but you throw mud upon your fellow man, slander their names and backgrounds, and tout that your beliefs are perfect. You are no better than the terrorists that want to blow us up. You are the traitors and anti-Americans, and we the American people will exact our revenge for the pain and suffering you have wrought us over the past 30 years. May God have mercy on you, for the American people will not.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

When a small-minded hypocrite grabs a bible and wraps himself in the flag, you just know he is going to run for president as a Republican. And lose.

More smoke and mirrors from the GOP...

What is the Republican plan for jobs?

What is Rick Santorum going to do to bring unemployment down below 8%? Do any of these candidates ever talk about this? Do they assume the public is just going to go back to trickle down economics? It is insulting how stupid some these politicians think the people are.

If you vote Republican and are not a millionaire, you are literally voting against your self-interests.

"Blackbird

Wonder who Rick Sanitorium....err Santorum will pick for his running mate? It's sure to be a doozy"

============

......Perhaps Pat Robertson, he is very attuned to the needs of everyday Americans, especially the poor and the unemployed, as long as they go to a church which meets his approval (although his stomache must turn at thought of a Catholic Santorum running for President, what with all those guns in Ricky's basement waiting for the Pope and his minions to invade and take over the country). I'm sure Sarah Palin would be out, she is a woman and should to forced back into the kitchen.....barefoot of course.

Kaybeetoys, #1.67, you beat me to it, but Amen, Steven Miller either can't read, or it is very selective reading.

My God can beat the crap out of your God. I guess that would then have to mean that I actually accept the existence of a God. What a conundrum.

I like the guy with the Flying Spaghetti Monster on his speed dial. The one that is much cooler than Pat Robertson... sort of like in a George Carlin kinda way.

AnIndividual

Who died and made little Ricky GOD!?!

===========

..............Ummmm, Jerry Falwell?

Santorum: Obama believes in 'phony theology' not based on Bible

It's no worse than you Saintorum that thinks the invisible man in the sky is going to save us all. Go back to the mental ward you escaped from. I hear Romney, Gingrich and Batty Bachmann is waiting for your charming self to return and lead them the way.

Hold it. I thought there was a WALL OF SEPARATION between church and state. If the church can't tell the government what to do, then how is it that the government can tell the church what to do? What happened to the WALL? Does it just work one way? What kind of wall would that be anyway?

So what we will see under a Santorum presidency is:

1. Pardon of Warren Jeffs. Santorum clearly believes that polygamy and pediphilia is ok as long as a religion mandates it (just read his statement).

2. Fundamentalist Islam will have free rein in the USA (to kill all us infidels) - after all -- they are a religion. And the feds must not impede any religious activities. He did say that.

3. Human sacrifice of virgins will be legal. This is also a religious activity.

4. If you believe in the biblical principle of 'an eye for an eye', then you can take vigilante actions for all wrongs done to you.

I guess this country will look totally different under Santorum. And all the above would come to pass - as surely he does not mean that he will only support christian ideas, and would take orders from the Catholic church (kind of like he is doing now).

Raddave, "Uhm, the Catholic Church is the original version of Christianity and uses the original version of the Bible."

I was going to make a response to that, but AThoughtOr2 (#1.65) beat me to it, and his comment was very well said..

OMG .... this idiot is turning to be a better entertainment that Michelle Bachman

That is true. However, in modern society, I think governments have found a way (possibly to meet a need) to regulate churches. They offer a simple trade; benefits for an agreement to maintain a degree of clarity and to abide by the law. And churches have found ways to penetrate the so-called wall of separation; lobbyists. If not by physical people there are anti-abortion and gay marriage advertisements, religious organizations focused on certain issues, such as abortion. Not to mention the rings of anti-abortion protesters that have been known to ring around abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood facilities. Essentially, both sides have found ways to get around the wall. But technically, it is at a sort of equilibrium. Each side has a balancing set of factors, from federal regulations and mandates to religious lobbying groups and advertisements. People on both sides have tried to circumvent the wall, from government regulators to religious fundamentalists like Rick Santorum. As people say, that cuts both ways. But we must keep the equilibrium in place, for it is a sort of wall between the two groups. That means stopping the encroachment from both religious and secular groups.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

I'm watching old reruns of the original Outer Limits and they aren't as scary as Rick Saint Snore-em

The President is very intelligent and down- to - earth person. I respect him as a leader and like him as a good person.

I think I'll have a large dose of separation of church and state and it does frighten me that a religious zealot could once again try to fulfill some fatalistic prophecy.

That's what scares me about Santorum...not his blind obedience to the pap from the Papacy, but his idea that we must go to war with Iran. Is he hoping to start a nuclear conflict to bring about Armegeddon?

......Why would you put money in the collection plate twice a Mass ??...

Interesting question, Mike. The parish priest in my friend's neighborhood stood up in church one Sunday morning and told his parishioners that if they put money in the collection plate, it was only going to be used to pay for the church's financial settlements to children who had been abused by pedophile priests.

That was an honest man.

Seems the bankers and top corporate executives in this country have a lot in common with the Mafia. As a matter of fact, I think the average church-going hypocrite, regardless of their socio-economic status, has a lot in common with the Mafia. That is why I stopped going to church in my teens, realizing what a bunch of hypocrites I was surrounded by. I'm not an atheist, but I will never, ever join any organized religion, no matter how large or small. People like Santorum reinforce my my reasons daily.

"People" said similar things about JFK.....Before he became the First President elected who was a CATHOLIC....that he'd be taking orders from the Pope, etc..... And even though he was a Democrat...he was a Democrat before the Progressives reared their ugly heads and hijacked the party, starting with his successor LBJ....

Mike, JFK never made an issue of his religion in the sanctimonious way that Santorum and Gingrich are doing. They are speaking straight to one voting segment: Evangelicals. Their religious views are irrelevant, and your comparison leaks like a rusty bucket.

Progressives are people who see problems that need fixing and couple them with solutions. What progress has ever been made in the world by conservatives?

JFK could never be elected as a Democrat today....His position on fiscal/tax policy, his opposition to the power of the Federal Reserve Bank, his stand against Khrushchev and the Soviet Union....His vision of America as Leader of the Free World....Remember " Ask not what your Country can do for you- ask what you can do for your Country"

In fact, President Obama is a great admirer of JFK, who lived in a different time. Might as well say that George Washington couldn't be elected president today.

Stay out of that Florida sun, Mike.

I'm with you mymom. The biggest hypocrites I've ever known, the most unkind and intolerant people, are the ones who think that sitting in a church pew twice a week is all they have to do to be called Christian. They have either forgotten the words of Jesus or have twisted them to the point where Christ himself would not recognize them.

kaybeetoys....(#1.111) ....."Might as well say that George Washington couldn't be elected president today."

Why Not ???

"Stay out of that Florida sun, Mike."

I am a studier of history, I write what I believe to be true....You may differ on your opinions, but there is no need to suggest that my brain is cooked from relaxing and reading books out back by the pool.....

"Their religious views are irrelevant, and your comparison leaks like a rusty bucket."

..."The largest religion in the US is Christianity, practiced by the majority of the population (76% in 2008^[4]). From those queried, roughly 51.3% of Americans are Protestants, 25% are Catholics, 1.7% are Mormon (the name commonly used to refer to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and 1.7% of various other Christian denominations"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

I don't think they would agree with you that their views are irrelevant

Mike, how do you know who among the founding fathers could or could not be elected president today? It's completely hypothetical...of course you are entitled to your opinion, but how do you even know who could be elected on November 6? Got a crystal ball?

What made you think I was suggesting that your brain is cooked? I am concerned about skin cancer. However, if the shoe fits...

It doesn't matter what religion Americans practice or do not practice. This is a secular country, and there has never been a president elected on the basis of his professed beliefs.

Making religion an issue is a sure loser for Santorum. And that is just fine with me. :)

The only theology the voter should be concerning himself with is the one by which he is bribed with his own tax money.

So by all means, continue to vote yourselves "more benefits".

Okay, so is Obama a radical Muslim, a follower of a Christian "terrorist" or waging a war against religion itself???? Please, make up your minds.

Continuing, every version of the Bible, every religion, every moral, every belief, has no place in any of your laws, legislation, policy, or government in general. I'm sorry if that takes away your soap box, or your feelings of superiority, but that's the truth. Find a different way to convince yourselves you're better than others.

Our bodies are not wedge issues. This is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

Ahh, Sarah. So good to see your rational mind come in and calm the tensions in this thread.

Mike in Delray-let me "edit" what I meant to say. I am a Catholic, and I believe in many things that the Church says (Jesus Christ, eternal salvation, original sin, divine mercy and providence, etc). However, just because I am a Catholic doesn't mean that I have to believe in everything that the Church says. I do not believe that abortion should be illegal in all cases (only legal when it is necessary); or that gay marriage is immoral (nobody, not even the Catholic Church, has the authority to judge people; only God does); or that contraceptives are bad. Nor am I a fully abstinent "I'll-have-sex-after-I'm-married" person, although I probably will wait until I'm ready. Not everyone who follows a particular ideology has to follow each and every tenet. I believe in Christ, but not in the concept of "traditional marriage." I believe in Christianity, but I don't believe that my religion in the only true religion (each religion is true, as it incorporates a sense of God that is natural to their believers). It's okay to have differing beliefs. I am a Democrat, but I do not believe in banning gun ownership. People who support Obama or Mitt Romney don't always believe in everything that they say (I want a bigger deficit reduction package, and some of Romney's supporters don't want cuts to Medicare or social services). You said that the Church doesn't have to conform to my beliefs. You have to understand that cuts both ways. Nor do I have to conform myself to the Church's beliefs, or do I???

Oh, and I do not represent the entire Catholic population. I simply came to set the record straight and tell people that not all Catholics are like Santorum. And I simply wanted to shed some light on the beliefs of some (not all) Catholics in America.

I am a Catholic. I cannot be an Episcopalian, because I was born and raised Catholic, and that is who I am going to be. You may think that everyone who has differing opinions about a certain ideology's position ought to adopt a new one, but not me. I would gladly be a Catholic and have differing opinions, because that is what this country is about; freedom of belief. And that is also what God is about; tolerating people with differing opinions. Do you really think that people must believe 100% in a particular belief??? I don't. I know a lot of Catholics who don't follow some of the Church's beliefs, and I don't see them being burned at the stake as a heretic. Do you???

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

A HOT NEW DEVELOPMENT FO RepublicanCrimeCartel Dealings!!!: Sister and Brother Americans, This is All Vomitorium can do because he is Not Presidential Material. ALL these RepublicanCrimeCartel LACKEYS Went Back to their Corporate Masters and said "Help!, We are gonna lose Sooooo Huge to that Obama, What can we do?" So what do the RepublicanCrimeFamiliesDo? These B@$T@rd$ go and GREATLY Increase Gas Prices at The Pump to stifle PrezO's hard work &Progress on the American Economy AND! AND!!! Then Go and Blame the Gas Increase on prez O! This RepublicanCrimeCartel is Depicable and Dangerous!! Here is a Helpful Post which did Well last week!C'mon MittTaxPittanceRommel can you or your mules not take the truth???? Check this Original Post Out..right on the button for Rommel

Prez O is smart. He doesn't have to seriously campaign; Just let these RepublicanCrimeCartelThugClowns go public with their unacceptably criminal behavior, and Voila!!!!!

There they are!!!: All TV'd Up! Like Dracula, Frankenstein and The WolfMan; MittTaxPittance Rommel, THEGangrene and, last BUT NOT in the least, The WolfManVomitorium! YESSSSSS!!!!! First off is DRAC: aka MittTaxPittanceRommel, Who will START A WAR WITH Iran, And A very Profitable War for his RepublicanCrimeCartelCorporateMasters AT THAT!! The Count was "nice enough" to expose his taxes!! Hmmm...Let Me See Now...Drac paid 13% on $42,000,000 income EEEZZZZ MONEY: About 5million AND!!! WE American Taxpayer Victims PAID The Count's REMAINING $7,800,000 Tax Liability!!!! Thanks for SUCKING US Dry Drac!!! AND Aren't We "LittlePeople" Thrilled that The Count is nice enough to Let US have the Honor of Paying His Taxes!! He WILL ALLOW Even, the Poor, Whom HE HAS STATED He "DOES NOT CARE ABOUT" To coughUp his Tax Liability!; 'Long as they got A BloodyJob with deductions Drac can get his FANGS into their BloodMoney as small as it might be!
Then There is Frankenstein, err...THEGangrene who, with his department store mannequin "Other Half", will turn to Destructive Rage at the drop of a wrong word or moment!!! EGADZ, This SelfEntitled Creature of Pleasure will Start A War for his RepublicanCorporateMasters AnyWhere, AnyHow, AnyWay, EVEN On The Moon!, as long as there is profit and Franky gets a stipend from it!!! ANYTHING TheGangrene Touches will Putrify and Rot like what is left of OUR AmericanBodyPolitic!!! Watch Franky TRY to Come alive with "lightening" speed at the RepublicanNationalCrimeCartelConvention!!!
Now Comes The WolfMan Vomitorium... What Can be said!! Such a Goot'Lookin'Boy! Ooh Facime! What A Face!! how could he do Anything Unsavory!!! BUT When The CORPORATE SYMBOLS rise in his eyes TheVomitorium begins his hungry and Very Hairy Growling for American Taxpayer's Blood!!!!
Yes!! THERE is your victim Wolfy!! Go and Savage It WolfMan with BloodLust Fangs and All! Our American UniversalHealthCare System!! All of OUR Allys have it, EVEN the TowelHeads Have A NationalHealthCareSystem!, This Political Beast Savaged and ALSO Struck down OUR Bill for AnAmericanNationalHealthCareSystem!!! Then, when The Killing Is Over, Out Steps The 'A nica'Boy Vomitorium; Ooohh!! How CleanCut!! Yes And so are His savage sever wounds on OUR AmericanHealthCareBill!!!!Brother And Sister American Putting these guys In Power is Having Dracula Guard our BloodBanks!!! You Saw What the Count Did....Let's Get Them OUT!!

Freshieee

So, Freshiee, I need to ask. I left the church for the very reasons you cite (and more)...

How do you live with the hypocrisy? Why don't you leave the Catholic Church for something more forgiving? How do you have civil conversations with "stronger" Catholics?

Don't get me wrong... I don't mean to criticize your decision to stay, I just would like to know how you deal with it... because I couldn't.

Anyone, and by "anyone" I mean Dem, Rep or independent, that honestly believes in talking snakes, rib women, helpful fish that burp up stranded sailors, magic boats that can hold two of every species of animal on earth, flaming shrubbery that give directions and an all powerful invisible man has NO business running this country.

Seriously, if someone proclaimed a belief in any of the above and those beliefs weren't connected to a 2000+ year old book, who of you would vote for him? To truly believe in nonsense, simply because a very old book proclaims it to be true is no excuse, and such irrational though processes have no place in anyone running for one of the most powerful positions in the world.

The minute someone starts spouting their religious belief as a reason to vote for them, I immediately start looking elsewhere for someone to vote for.

Random Fox, (if you can actually find this response b/c this particular thread is soooo long), I did a quick google search questioning Hitler's faith viewpoints, just a bit of what I found.

Was Hitler a Christian?

By John Baskette - but the information came from Marty Helgesen in a soc.religion.christian post.

The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

Random Fox, another source, one which I enjoy greatly, has quite a bit to say on the issue as well.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699/was-hitler-a-christian

I hope you read it, because it turns out that Hitler was much like any other run of the mill politician, he said what he needed to say, to those that wanted to hear it in order to get as many people favoring him as possible, no matter how different the people were in their beliefs. A comforting thought, huh? Sounds like all the presidential runners for the most of my life time.

For those of you who had any doubts... watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY

It's okay, L Marc T, I understand. I stay for several reasons; I am too young to change my religion; I find sympathy with the Catholic Church's beliefs in things like a somewhat centralized religious hierarchy, and I think that Mary and the saints ought to be revered and respected (not worshiped). I can't find myself supporting any other religion, and I guess that I am willing to overlook the Catholic Church's many flaws. I was raised as a Catholic, and I like the religion.

I live with the hypocrisy by criticizing it. I tend to have civil conversations with other Catholics usually by not talking about the issues, and if I do I try not to antagonize it. Plus I know many Catholics who support things like gay marriage and abortion (my sister, for example).

And I don't really think that there is another Christian church that is any more forgiving that the Catholic Church (in my opinion, they're all good and bad). The Protestants have persecuted Catholics (and vice versa), some are a bit too conservative than my personal beliefs, some are more religiously conservative than me, and many have principles that I don't support. Catholics used to be a stronghold for progressive liberals like me, and I support their somewhat egalitarian views (excepting their views on gay marriage). The Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't appeal to me theologically and ritually, nor do Protestants or any other faith. I believe in Christ, and I support some Catholic tenets. Plus the knowledge that there are millions of Catholics who share my somewhat liberal and secular beliefs gives me confidence in knowing that Catholicism is the right thing for me. I know that people of other faiths also share my beliefs, but I still think that the church is somewhat better. I don't have the stomach to convert, and I prefer to have differing opinions with the Church yet still be a member. It's like me being an American; I don't agree with everything America does (trickle-down economics, oppressing the Third World nations, invading for no reason, passing Defense of Marriage Act, etc), but I love this country so much that I wouldn't trade my citizenship for the world. That is why I stay in the Church. It's tough, but I try to make the best of it.

And personally, I think that Catholics are a bit more liberal than other Christians. Not the Church (their very conservative), but the Catholic people, as many are Democrats, many support gay marriage and abortion when necessary, and many don't follow the Bible or the Catholic dogma word for word.

ram-762581

Oh, that's an easy one! Obammy is a racist nickname for President Obama intended to belittle and put him back in his place.

Thanks for finally clearing that up for me. I kept hearing how the term "Obammy" was racist but I couldn't figure out what was racist about it at all. Now I understand. It goes back to that tried and true observation of Democrats in general, and liberals specifically. You/they remind me of the 3 monkeys...you know the ones "see no evil", "hear no evil" and "speak no evil", but only in regards to like minded individuals (other Democrats).

Case in point....does the term "Bushy" ring a bell with you? I thought not (reference the 3 monkeys analogy). I heard that term over and over by the left when referring to President Bush while he was in office and plenty more times since he has been out of office.

If "Obammy" is racist by your logic, then "Bushy" has to be racist by your logic also. Funny how no one ever called that out though.

There is a term for that...it is called HYPOCRITE!

Technically, Bushy would be somewhat racist. However, Obammy is more racist because it is based on the history of the President's race. Mammy is an archetype exclusively applied to African American women. Obama is African American, and-well, you can see the correlation. While calling Bushy is rude. I don't think it has any racist connotation (and if it did, it would be pretty weak considering that Bush was white).

OMG - Does this idiot never shut up? Surely his handlers know he is just making a total fool of himself? This is the best the GOP has to offer?? Sad that what once was a good party has now fallen to these depths - Santorum, Romney, Gingrich, Palin, Bachmann.......

If the GOP presidential campaign has shown us anything so far, it is that the tea party and to a slightly lesser extent the Republican Party are full of more hypocrites and morons then any other organization or place on Earth.

The first thing these smug holier than thou Christian hypocrites forget is indeed God's command to NOT judge or condemn others. They forget that Judgment is for GOD - not for man. When they forget and proceed to judge and condemn, they put themselves ABOVE God - which is a sin.

And to sin 'in order to prevent sin' is no better than the sin they complain of.

These people are beyond annoying. Truly.

Agreed. I don't care if they cling to their Bibles, but that loud thumping has got to go.

When they forget and proceed to judge and condemn, they put themselves ABOVE God - which is a sin

Actually, Sarge, it's more in the line of blasphemy--but hey, they're blasphemin' fer Jay-zus, you betcha...

Actions speak louder than words.

Whatever you think of the man, he speaks his beliefs. And for that reason alone I don't want him to shut up. Hell, I hope he wins the nomination and keeps this rhetoric up. I want people to realize 100% what voting for one of these zealots would do to our nation.

I posted this on another thread but I might as well repeat it here: do the R's really think the whole contraceptives debate is a winning issue? Do they realize that even the catholic church is cool with the compromise the administration reached? Is the GOP so blind as to not realize that they are alienating roughly half of their own constituency? Are they looking for "jobs, jobs, jobs" in women's private parts?

All I can say is good luck in november.

Dear Mr. Santorum,

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Matthew 7:1-2

-----

It's hard to believe that Santorum doesn't understand that making those comments about someone else's religion is a mistake. Is this the kind of mentality we want running the Oval Office?

Why do we have to have the CHURCH stuff in finding a way out of this hole????Who cares what we belive in,just leave us alone and get this country back on its feet.We sink all togather on this so leave it alone and get on whats at hand.THANK YOU PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES..That wa a trick Q ....WE ARE THE UNITED STATES...RIGHT 911 how quickly they for get.

You will collapse lots of posts here for other than derogatory or abusive speech. That I don't agree with. It is free speech, both sides can and should be heard. It annoys me...

But what really makes me angry is that you'll let blatant spammers like CarlaHan875 continue to spam this board. Kill them now; remove their accounts!

By the time I posted, it was gone... my apologies!

This is not about the Catholic church (which is a fine church that has done many good things),so don't batter the church, Santorum should not share that condemnation.

Santorum's statement,"If he says he's a Christian, he's a Christian" - with an subtext insinuating that Obama is not a Christian, without having the gonads to say it is cowardly at best. And definitely not Presidential!

That is such a weasel move.

Thankful2416829 -

You know, the shorter your quotes are, the more likely it seems that you are having to work really, really hard to strip them of their context in order to pretend they mean what you want them to mean. I know how hard it must be for you to be trapped in a religion that doesn't allow you to stone anybody who offends your delicate sensibilities, but such is the Christian church.

I too am sick of hearing this B.S. These idiots are two steps away from believing the earth is a 6,000 year old flat land, and they are going to try and tell me what is right and wrong in my life. Keep your religion to yourself, Santorum, and stop trying to use any line of crap to win an election. A little genuine personality would go a long way.

Well said, Jack. There is nothing less relevant to a candidate's qualifications than his religious affiliation or lack thereof. The very fact the GOP's dwindling pack of hypocrites repeatedly raise the subject of their hateful religions points directly to their lamentable lack of qualifications for the position.

DB - President Obama can quote the Bible with the best of them.

Everyone who quotes the Bible claims their interpretation is the only interpretation.

I think that is pretty darn arrogant. And claiming a lot of almighty powers for themselves.

Obama has as much right to quote scripture as Santorum- as though one is more "Christian" than the other!

Well, my Christian sensibilities are offended by that assertion!

I see people glad to put government in place of God - because they don't really want to serve God.

Let us know when your God starts building roads and bridges for us...maybe then I'll buy what you're trying to sell, DB Akron.

...sheesh...

Santorum is so full of crap it isn't even funny. The very same type of programs Obama has proposed, have been inacted by the Feds when Bush was Pres and he never contested them. They were inacted in MA by Romney as well. The blatent hypocrisy of this group and the candidates is STUNNING.... Each of them feining about "lowest of the low", "never in this country has religeous freedom, yada, yada, yada"... Enough to make you sick. The best was the "hearings" they held.. really??? We need hearings? How fast did they call the hearings? Then it was ALL men.. Didn't you just love it???

Kinda like those phoney theologys of Albert Einstein, Mahatma Ghandi, Ben Franklin, Kahlil Gilran or the Delai Lama. Go, get-em, Rick!

Yeah, we've heard that before. "On-ward Christian So-o-o-ldi-ers, marching as to war ......"

All God's chillun have phoney theologies.

I will be so glad when the world grows up and we can elect a president who doesn't have to act like he believes in fairy tales.

Santorum said, "I’ve been pretty clear that the left in America has their own moral code in which they want to impose on this country. You can call it a theology. You can call it a moral code. You can call it a world view, but they have their own moral code that they want to impose on everybody else. While they insist and complain that somehow or another that people of Judeo Christian faith are intolerant of their new moral code that they want to create here. I’m just saying they the ones who are intolerant in imposing their will on in this case the Catholic church.”

Santorum is such a joke. The guy is literally debating himself. The only person creating a moral code and attempting to impose it upon others is Santorum and his ilk. The only thing Obama did was take the decision away from the employer and gave it to the employee. If the employer doesn't want to pay for it, then the insurance company has to offer it for free as it would be cheaper to provide birth control then to pay for a pregnancy. Santorum and the Right wing extremists are trying to take the opportunity to expand religious and moral objections to all companies and insurance companies. So which party is trying to maintain the status quo on birth control and which one is trying to radically change policy?

The Conservatives aren't being very conservative. As birth rates among the poor begin to increase, the demand for welfare services will also increase. So the religious Conservatives are taking a position that would be contrary to a fiscal Conservatives goal of decreasing government spending.

Mr Santorum, you will never get my vote and this is why. You have to chose between callings, do you want to be a preacher or do you want to be a politician. You cannot be both. Clearly you do not understand that in the political arena that you must serve *all* the people. That means Christian, Jew, Muslim, and all other denomination and those who do not practice. For some reason that concept escapes you.

No, sir. You do not deserve the right to even be in the primaries.

Seems like a lot of pots calling a lot of kettles black...

This is why a religious test should be applied to presidental and all other candiates. If the candiate professes any religious beliefs, and especially christian or muslim they should be barred from holding public office.

Religious belief has been the deadliest scourge man has ever invented and its ideas should not be allowed to govern anyone, anywhere.

Right on the money, Frank!

Any time someone grabs a bible and wraps himself in the flag you can be confident he is running for president as a Republican. And he'll lose, of course.

JayEll: Catholics don't read the Bible, only the "Catechism". I know Catholics who don't even know the most famous Bible stories like David and Goliath.

Santorum practices phony sanity....

Thankful-2416829 I am calling out the wolf in sheep's clothing.....

DB, if you think about it, God is a government. He is the supreme leader of the Universe, which in political terms would be a dictator (however, his realm is a democracy, as each person is allowed to live their life how they see best). And while I do not believe in using religious terms in government, Obama has a point. People with wealth have greater power, but also greater irresponsibility. Much is expected from the CEOs and millionaires of this world to at least use some of their wealth to help those in need. Why cannot the rich do that in terms of paying taxes??? I know they pay a lot already, but it is that big of a fuss to pay an extra 3.6% in income taxes or 5% in capital gains taxes??? The middle class is shrinking, and they are paying in taxes a huge share of their income. The wealthy, not much, in proportion to their income. That is why we have a progressive tax, so the people with more money (and thus, more power) have more responsibility to do what is best for the nation as a whole. Am I right??? Or am I wrong, and that the rich should have the same amount of duties as the rest of us, even though we are less powerful thanks to Citizens United and they have more power through lobbying groups and deep pockets????

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

FAIR TAX CODE 2012

So if Santorum wins the presidency who will ultimately be in charge of the country? Will it be Santorum or will it be Pope Benedict? Same goes for Romney, if he wins will he be in charge of the country or will he be beholden to the great Mormon prophet? I've heard rumors that Huntsman didn't drop out of the race because of his own decision but that he was told by the muckety mucks in charge of the church of J.C. of LDS that he needed to drop out so he didn't dilute the voter base for Romney. Don't know if it's true or not but it makes you think, who would really be in charge if either of these candidates win.

Santorum ( and the other Republican candidates) needs to keep 100% focus on this lousy economy and offer solid ideas for what he will do differently to get things going again. Despite some recent good news, where the USA stands on jobs, the deficit and spending is abysmal and should be the complete focus of anyone trying to win the presidency.

DB of Akron said it correctly. Obama is visibly uncomfortable and is clearly not well versed in the Bible or theology. He was not raised in a Christian home, and my guess he did not get much Bible training from that hater, Reverend Wright. While Obama is very intelligent and well versed on many issues, he clearly struggles when attempting to discuss Biblical or Christian principles. If he is smart, he should leave theology alone.

I am still waiting for the substantive discussions that must take place on job creation, tax policy, spending cuts, entitlement reform, nukes in Iran, Korea, China and all the other major issues of the day.

Santorum said, "I’ve been pretty clear that the left in America has their own moral code in which they want to impose on this country.

Oh that's ripe! Hello, pot? It's me, kettle....

Hahaha, a recent study showed Catholics scored among the lowest on knowledge of the Bible. Interestingly, Mormons scored among the highest. So there ya go Romney, another area where you can claim superiority over Santorum.

Come one, what are we, Iran? Did you know that after the 1979 revolution, government posts/appointmentswere made based on how well the man knew the Koran? The incompetency that followed nearly ruined the country. During Dubya, staff carried the Bible around the White House...hmmm, there seems to be a correlation here.

Oaky, seriously -- This is the United States of America, and I can't believe folks are even having this conversation. Throw out the Teapublican Taliban!

Amen, TruePat.

The same verse that says we are not to judge also says we are to discern. When the Chinese leader visited recently the biggest concern our administration voiced was increasing American students in Chinese universities. Nothing was said about continued religious oppression in China. How can our leaders have a meeting with possibly the next leader of China and not discuss this as a major problem?

Santorum will find out to his dismay that the majority of American voters don't really give a $h!t about his theology or anyone else's.

People are going hungry and he's telling us to eat communion wafers.

Talk about the REAL issues, Rick.

wives fan-- Agreed. Let's call things by the correct terms. That wasn't a "hearing," that was an "inquisition" and that wasn't a "ruling" it was an "edict." Santorum, et al, if you want a theocracy, own up to it -- the Christian Republic of the US.

Sailcat-2064101

Any time someone grabs a bible and wraps himself in the flag you can be confident he is running for president as a Republican.

So true, though I suspect they are running for Dictator, not president.

Big Bill-887422 -- I'm not as concerned about religious oppression as I am religions that oppress, like the women in Afghanistan. And, I like that the president is addressing currency fraud with China now.

Someone posted above that Santorum says what he really believes. Honesty is a good trait, but that doesn't mean the belief is good. Use the Rule of Reason.

If people want to know the difference, listen to President Obama's speech at the recent Prayer Meeting. The President does not need to wear his religion on his sleeve, and does not question other politician's religion or let hateful lies be told without objection, and does not take sides of one religion against another.

Santorum lost his senate seat by 18 points for a reason. He is not fit to serve in the senate, and he definitely is not presidential material. I don't even want someone like that as my next door neighbor.

I think it's funny how all of these comments basically echo each other, and take turns bashing the one person who has a difference of opinion. America is awesome that way, I suppose.

Santorum is entitled to his opinion- so says our Constitution. Your are entitled to your opinion regarding his opinion- see reference to Constitution above. I'm also entitled to kick the oak tree in my front yard until my toe breaks, but both actions are equally pointless.

These comments always woefully depress me, because most people don't seem to understand that people are complex beings. "Santorum is against making religious institutions provide contraception." turns into "Santorum is the devil- all Christians are idiots- lol!" Obama went to a church where the preacher said some unsavory things turns into, "Obama hates white people- lol!" (Even though they depress me, I'm drawn to them, like I imagine someone addicted to cocaine is drawn to it.)

As long as we keep allowing ourselves to sink to such drivel, nothing will ever change. We are better than this- we all are.

TAKE YOUR COCAINE AND ENJOY IT!!!

But in all seriousness, I think I get what you're saying, although I'm not sure it is so bad to have people venting and raging in the comments section - perhaps we get our frustrations out here, anonymously (and somewhat cowardly - I'll admit) and then go back to our face-to-face interactions with the required decorum.

I can only speak for myself, but I like to poke fun at the hyper-religious on these posts, and I more than welcome the same in return. So please (to no one in particular), label me a douchebag secularist and I'll see your insult and raise you one crazy religious zealot!!

yorickesq - okay,I've taken a deep breath.... You're right. Thank you for the breath of sanity.

a recent study showed Catholics scored among the lowest on knowledge of the Bible. Interestingly, Mormons scored among the highest. So there ya go Romney, another area where you can claim superiority over Santorum.

Actually, it was the Atheists that on average scored highest in knowledge of the bible, followed by Jews and Mormons, Evangelicals didn't do so well, and the average Protestant and Catholics were at the bottom.

Mind you, those were averages for those groups, I'm certain that there are some individual Catholics and Protestants that are well versed in scriptures, and some individual Atheists, Mormons and Jews that hardly know anything biblical.

Rick Santorum is a liar and a phony that would destroy this Country if he got into office.

Finally someone is having the guts to tell the truth. Rick is right. It's the left that is intolerant of anyone who disagrees with their "theology of life".

"No Value" Guts of a fool !

Because theology, by its very nature, very quickly moves from the philosophical to the social and political, theology itself very quickly becomes "phony".

Santorum's claim implies that he himself adheres to a more genuine theology; the term which describes his position is "holier than thou". Very phony.

Santorum doesn't realize that the moral code he attributes to the left is exactly the moral code of the men who founded this country and wrote the constitution.

Your right most catholics don't really have any knowledge of the bible, Mormon's know more, but with their fairytale Joseph Smith stories, you wonder how they interpret some of the bible, where all this comes from.

So let's compare the evangelicals of the Catholic Church with the Republican party of today...

Both have members that stay with them for some unknown reason, in-spite of vast differences in their beliefs. Unlike the Democrats but exactly like the Catholic Church, the Republicans' extreme right seem to be both controlling the agenda and the people within the party. The far right says anything, and the members line up and salute. Why is that? Is discipline and winning and being accepted in the party (or church) more important than being true to yourself or your real values?

Apparently so. Just wondering.

The post most catholics don't know the bible ? That is wrong. You read the bible everyday in a catholic school. It is also read in church. So that is incorrect. The problem with most religons moromon catholic and even yours is the idea that one is christain and the other is not really christian. No matter what church you go to its never christian. Catholics take it too a new level.

Newt is the poster boy for that wife numer 1 and wife number 2 maried in different churches by catholic standards both marriages and the children from the marriages are unclean and not legitimate. Now his 3rd wife Calista thats counted as a real christian the other women they were not christians. Basically unclean women committting adultery...

So basically any cpac voters voting for Santorum or Newt if you are not catholic when they talk about christians you are not considered one.

AND THIS IS MY WHOLE POINT...These iditiots need to stop talking religion and understand the catholic church and the church of England and the power of church to dictate what the government does is

WHY THE FOUNDING FATHERS LEFT ENGLAND AND ANYBODY WHO THINKS OTHERWISE BETTER READ THE WRITINGS THEY HAD ON THE FEAR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ITS POWER TO DOMINATE GOVERNMENT. The founding fathers understand how easy it is to blur the lines...

When you vote based on religion that is the most unamerican unconstitutionally idea I have ever heard AND AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION

Free to worship and let DOCTORS DECIDE WHAT HEALTHCARE MEN AND WOMEN NEED NOT DICTATOR NEWT OR SANTORIUM THE POPE WANT TO BE

Why don't we just give them all pope outfits and let them live at vatican city basically the current pope is meddling in the american government make no mistake about it

‎7+B people today.
9+B people by 2050.
Annual Growth Rate >1% per year.
13.6% of the World Population under-nourished and rising.

An intelligent religious community that understands what causes war and famine would revisit their doctrines. How can an intelligent religious community make such an effort to fight hunger on the one hand and then stand against something that would help reduce hunger on the other?

They have the right to chose their position. I have the right to think they are a socially acceptable cult.

Santorum is entitled to his opinion- so says our Constitution.

Yes, yorickesq, Santorum is entitled to his opinion. However, politicians generally don't stoop to bashing the religious beliefs of their opponents.

It says volumes about the kind of man Santorum really is, a holier-than-thou hypocrite who would belittle the president over a non-issue when our country has important issues to address.

Asked about his statements later, Santorum had the opportunity to apologize but instead he blatantly lied, claiming he was talking about the president's environmental policy.

The vast majority of Americans also believe in phony theology, no theology, or really don't give a @!$%#.

Every time Santorum opens his mouth, he shows how out of touch he is living in a post 1940's world and widens the distance between him and the average voter. But, if it appeals to the ultra-conservatives who dominate the GOP primaries, it could be a good strategy to get him to the nomination. Romney isn't getting any more likeable and his campaign is totally based on the economy with no plan "B", so Santorum focusing on social issues could pay off for him with the economy turning around leaving Romney with no compelling reasons to vote for him.

If Santorum gets the nomination the GOP will have to choose between a landslide loss or running a third party candidate to split the vote knowing they will still lose, but at least being able to blame the loss on the split allowing them to save some face in the end. Santorum winning the general election is one hell of a long shot. It'd be worth putting a few buck on in a bet because the odds would probably pay 1000 to 1 if he actually pulled it off.

Are the liberals trying to start a modern day crusade against Christians? It appears as though the liberals are speaking out against the beliefs of those who actually believe... calling them all sorts of names, and doing their level best to diminish them. It's not surprising... tell me, is the next thing on the liberals agenda... routing all the Christians up and putting them in rail cars... sending them to concentration camps... only to be gassed to death?

The so called false compassionate liberals have this tendency to do everything they can to put down Christians... fearing words and an ideology that involves one thing, and one thing only... belief. Liberals fear belief... because liberals only believe in liberalism. Why is that? Could it be that liberals themselves know this is wrong? Interesting.....

kaybeetoys would call Jesus Christ a hypocrite if Christ declared himself to be conservative.

And He would be. But I doubt He would declare that today.

The left is not trying to get rid of the church. The left respects the right of the church to both exist and to practice it's own beliefs WITHIN THE CHURCH. Most on the left, however, respect ALL religions and are against undo influence or power or otherwise bias toward any particular faith... the Catholic Church may see that as an affront, but I see it as being inclusive and fair.

I would never presume to put words into the mouth of Jesus or anyone else, Brianb.

Read your New Testament and then come back and cite chapter and verse to support that Jesus was a conservative.

Conservative Christians are painting themselves into a corner by dragging religion into our political discourse. It's a strategy that is a sure loser for them.

Brianb,

We don't care what anyone's beliefs or religious practices are. The problem is when some people feel the need to push their beliefs on others. We live in a secular society where the largest religion is no religion at all. Believe and practice whatever you like with full protections to do so, but don't try to impose those beliefs on me.

Don't confuse the backlash of people against what are widely perceived as religious nutcases with any organized attack on religion itself. When I tell people trying to convert me or impose their beliefs on me that I'm not interested and we should agree to disagree, that should be enough to set the boundaries, but anyone who has had to deal with a religious zealot who continues to push or totally ignore those boundaries, they just wish they would shut the f*ck up, and yes, after enough of that I feel it justified to feel angry towards them.

....is Obama not imposing his beliefs off on the Catholic Church and others who are against abortion?? Same thing.

Also.....poll in nationwide poll in 2010 revealed 76% of US call themselves Christians........about the same in 2008. We are still a country build on Christa in beliefs and a by majority a Christain country.

Dear Rick, so you want to talk about "phoney theology",

That "phoney theology" you speak of is called mainline theology. It has been practiced consistently for the last 2000 years by Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican churches. It advocates on behalf of the POOR, and God's CREATION. It seeks JUSTICE for all people - rich, poor, black, white, red, men, women, catholic, muslim, buddhist, french, angolan, russian, american, and etc.

Every 50-100 years, for the last 2000 years, some group has decided to co-op Christianity to serve their own purposes. They use terms like "literal interpretation of scripture", "godliness" and "re-baptism". They create systems where you can "pay" off your sins. They often use Christianity to justify wealth and power, legislate morality, and force their beliefs and moral "values" on others. They use their version of "Christianity" to separate themselves from others, punish others, and go to war with others. They believe that they are better than others, and crucify those who do not share their beliefs. (The cross, rick, remember the cross)

Every 50-100 years, a new generation has seen through that "phoney religion" and rejected it. They plainly see the self-rightous, hypocritical, and un Christ like behavior of these "Christians". And I have faith, that the voters of this nation will plainly see the kind of self-righteous theocratic rule they would have to put with under your administration.

People don't hate Jesus, they hate people who use Jesus to advance their own political agenda - or in this case - to denounce their political opponents.

It's called taking the LORD's name in vain, Rick

1Hiram, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1973 in Roe v. Wade that abortion is legal. Barack Obama was 12 years old at the time.

No woman is forced to get an abortion if it is against her beliefs. There is no justification to hold Obama responsible for abortion in the U.S. Your religious views are your right, but you do not have the right to impose them on others.

We have a Constitution that gives everyone the right to freedom of religion and freedom from the dogma of any religion. The U.S. has no national or state-sponsored religion.

You can say that the majority of Americans practice a particular faith, but the majority also believes that we have the right to abortion and contraception.

I'm disheartened to see how many people don't know that America is a secular nation founded on the principle of separation of church and state. Is this no longer taught in public schools?

Oh, and Rick, while were on the topic of religion,

The ten commandments were written as a guide to Israel so that it would not fall back into slavery, or make slaves of others.

One of those commandments is thou shalt not steal.

The Israelites understood this as more than just a prohibition against theft. They understood it as a prohibition against hording wealth and resources so that poverty and slavery were created.

Another commandment is thou shalt not kill.

Again, the Israelites understood this as more than simply taking a life, it also included denying others access to the means of life. The Israelites served with rigor in Egypt. That means, the egyptians forced them to labor, did not allow them to share in the benefits of their labor, and denied them access to the benefits that might allow them to live. To the Egyptians, the Israelites were subhuman, and that's how they treated them.

Sound familiar Rick?

It seems we are just breakin those commandments left and right aren't we?

Good thing you don't practice, advocate, or attach yourself to some "phoney religion" eh?

kaybeetoys - That's not what the supreme court said. In Roe V Wade, it was ruled that a woman has a right to privacy, and that privacy extends as far as having an abortion. Roe V Wade was not a carte blanche to have abortions.

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion. Decided simultaneously with companion caseDoe v. Bolton, the Court ruled that a right to privacy under the due process clause in the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution extends to a woman's decision to have an abortion, but that right must be balanced against the state's two legitimate interests for regulating abortions: protecting prenatal life and protecting the woman's health. Saying that these state interests become stronger over the course of a pregnancy, the Court resolved this balancing test by tying state regulation of abortion to the woman's current trimester of pregnancy.

Whatever happened to protecting prenatal life? Do you know what happens to the health of the woman after she has an abortion? In the majority of cases, women suffer major depression. How is that helping the cause of women's health?

kaybeetoys said: I'm disheartened to see how many people don't know that America is a secular nation founded on the principle of separation of church and state. Is this no longer taught in public schools?

I want you to show me the writing in the Constitution that says separation of church and state. Show it to me.... Not a single liberal has ever shown me those words in the Constitution...

doulous63 - The 10 Commandments, a guide? Like one of those things you pick up at the entry to Disneyworld... a GUIDE? If they were a guide, why were they not called - 10 rules for living a sort of, almost, kinda, good life? A GUIDE? Talk about watering something down!

Mike - You seem to be under the assumption that those who go to church, believe in their faith, practice their faith and live under the umbrella of a religious life are all hypocrites. They're people Mike!

What it really boils down to is a difference in political ideology. It has nothing to do with religion. If a conservative announces he's a Christian... automatically the left deems him a hypocrite. That being said... I've reached the conclusion that I don't care what liberals say any longer... Their words are meaningless as long as they continue along this track of thinking.

To all of the Christians on your Bible-Soap boxes (especially my good friend BrianB)... If Jesus were to re-appear he would absolutely HATE the religious right wing (RRW) and those who perpetuate it's views. Jesus/Christianity espoused beliefs that the RRW abhors. Those politicians and their ilk who profess to be good Christians are the MOST hypocritical jackarses on the planet. Santorum is a MASSIVE hypocrite here because he believes in Paul Ryan's which essentially cuts medicare/medicaid and food stamps. In addition, the current administration's "war" on religious freedom is a LIE (thought it was a sin to lie) being perpetrated by the RRW. Below are examples of what TRUE Christians are supposed to espouse.

EXAMPLES:
The RRW views the poor as lazy and always wanting a hand-out. Poverty and Hunger are symptoms of this.

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8ff. Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Christian/Jesus/Biblical views of those who help the poor/hungry

Prov. 29:7. The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor; the wicked does not understand such concern.

1 John 3:17. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

Luke 6:33ff. "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same."

2 Cor 9:7. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.

I am an agnostic so I believe that there is something greater than us (regardless of whether we can know what it is) and therefore I attempt to live my life according to the moral and ethical belief systems established by ALL religions. I also believe that people are free to do as they wish as long as it does not adversely affect the greater good for ALL human beings.

I've reached the conclusion that I don't care what liberals say any longer... Their words are meaningless as long as they continue along this track of thinking.

I have reached the conclusion that some people are so stubbornly set in their opinions that no amount of proof or reason will change their minds.

Some people have a deep-seated need to be right all the time, at least in their own minds.

Why do you demand verifiable facts be presented here that you then feel you can choose not to believe? If you don't believe the U.S. Constitution mandates the separation of church and state, then take it up with the Supreme Court. Obviously there is nothing I can say that will sway you.

As for the language of the right to abortion in Roe v. Wade, you are splitting hairs.

Are you a woman? Have you ever had an abortion, been pregnant or borne a child?

Why do you label and criticize the opinions of "liberals" that you do not agree with, instead of accepting that we are all entitled to our opinions?

With all due respect, Brianb, maybe you have too much time on your hands.

Brian

I am a Christian.

Our forefathers were very wise to separate religion from politics.

The framers of our constitution have very clearly stated that this Nation was not founded on ANY RELIGION.

The Treaty of Tripoli was translated by Joel Barlow in 1796.

The Translation was read out loud on the floor of the Senate in 1797.

It was voted on and UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.

It was signed by John Adams, and written into law.

The intent of our founding fathers is very clear.

Under Article 11:

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; ...”

This was the intent of our founding fathers.

Adams was the first Vice President of the US. He was the second President of the United States.

He was one of the committee of 5 that drafted the Declaration of Independence.

If he signs a document saying the United States was not founded on the Christian Religion you can believe it.

I am glad that they did separate Religion from Government. While I am a strong believer, I doubt what you believe is the same as what I believe. I certainly know that what Santorum believes is miles from what I believe.

The Colonists came to America to escape Religious based governments, they did not want to see that same mistake happen here.

Yet, thanks to the creeps, it has creeped in.

Notaliborcon - It's great that you cite so many Biblical examples to try to prove your point. The only trouble with all your effort... You are using examples given to individuals, not the government. In otherwords what you are trying to do is show where our government is supposed to be helping people through Biblical means... Let's take a pause for a moment and reflect on this.

Where in any of these verses that you so boldy cite, declare that it's the government's responsibility to take on the mantle of provider? Doesn't this contradict the secular view of government where it is common place to cite the powers of separation? Does charity fall under the mantle of government responsibility?

You are attempting to make a case for redistribution of wealth... and that's not Biblical, that's socialistic/communistic. Taking these verses out of context does not help your case. As kaybeetoys so eloquently says "If you don't believe the U.S. Constitution mandates the separation of church and state, then take it up with the Supreme Court. I guess kaybeetoys said a mouthful.

It seems even the liberals are starting to disagree on major items.

CM-6969 -- Actually, it was the Atheists that on average scored highest in knowledge of the bible, followed by Jews and Mormons, Evangelicals didn't do so well, and the average Protestant and Catholics were at the bottom.

Mind you, those were averages for those groups, I'm certain that there are some individual Catholics and Protestants that are well versed in scriptures, and some individual Atheists, Mormons and Jews that hardly know anything biblical.

Thank you for the reminder (I didn't have time to look up the study), as well as the proper interpretation of the results.

Paul-2793107 -- Mormons proselytize more than Jehovah Witnesses (only because they are a larger organization), so they learn the Bible in large part to convert people of other religions.

Ultimately, the Old Testament is the basis of the three main religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, so it's interesting that the religious-Right in the US is so weird about Muslims yet accepting of Jews.

Bruce-308647 -- Finally someone is having the guts to tell the truth. Rick is right. It's the left that is intolerant of anyone who disagrees with their "theology of life".

I get what you're saying, for example some argue that science is a religion, but it's a fallacious argument. There is always a lesser of evils, with science based on empirical methodology and fact rather than superstition or "faith," and the Left is more tolerant and more consistent (less hypocritical) in protecting individual/civil rights including freedom of ALL religion right along with freedom from religion/no religion.

Come on, Santorum saying that the president has "phony" beliefs is what? Tolerant? Christ-like? No, it is divisive and hateful.

Brianb-999431

This came out of your post TruePatriot: Ultimately, the Old Testament is the basis of the three main religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, so it's interesting that the religious-Right in the US is so weird about Muslims yet accepting of Jews.

Who said this? Who made the original statement?

If you don't even know the most fundamental things, like the Old Testament and major religions of the world, PLEASE stop wasting so much space in this thread with your ignorance. I reported that post as No Value.

The second sentence is my own observation, but the first is a FACT, and facts are facts.

The words are VERY specific, and they do have meaning.

Yes, Brianb, the words of the U.S. Constitution are specific and they do have a meaning which is accepted by the vast majority of the American population.

You happen to be in a very tiny minority in a democratic country. Go ahead and believe there is no separation of church and state in the U.S. The voters will decide in November (if he makes it that far, which I seriously doubt) whether or not Santorum's views on religion and its role in our society are views they share or not.

I agree, but they didn't exclude religion either.

They did not exclude it from a politician having beliefs as an individual. Those beliefs could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Taoist, Atheist, or whatever.

Have you ever read the 1st Amendment and noticed the 2nd part of the religion clause? There actually is a 2nd part of that statement. Maybe you should go and read it.

There is more than THIS?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Where is the second part you are talking about?

This refers to the federal government.

Is Rick running for Governor? Was Obama governing a State? Rick wants to control the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT according to his religious beliefs. He is complaining Obama doesn't run the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT according to Rick's religious beliefs.

America has it's roots in Judeau/Christian belief.

Another founding father, Thomas Paine, said:

“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”(From “The Age of Reason”)

As such they were careful to not make this a Nation based on one faith.

Where exactly has it creeped in? What portion of Government is dominated by religion?

First of all Rick wants HIS religion to dominate the government.

We have laws in which the only reason they exist is because of religion.

At one time there was a lot of superstition and misinformation about homosexuality. Some thought it might be contagious, some thought it was a mental illness, now we know it is the way people are born and is not contagious and it is not a mental illness.

The refusal of the US Government to recognize Gay marriage is completely based on religious belief.

If Elton John and Rush Limbaugh decided to get married who would it harm? How would it harm the USA? What threat could it be to ANYTHING? It is a law based on religion. While States can legalize such a marriage until the Federal Government comes into line it really doesn't mean much.

Brian I understand you THINK you are a christian..However according to Rick Santorum and newt

If you aren't catholic you are not a Christian so when they talk about Christian values they are not talking to Lutherans, or protestants or evangelicals or methodists or reformed or baptists or southern baptists.

If you are not baptized by a priest and confirmed by a priest by Rick Santorums standard you are not catholic and definetly not a Christian.

If your not catholic Rick sure is not going to let you marry his daughter under your religion you would have to convert and become a christian..

Newt also says he is now a Christian so the other 2 marrriages he had were not under an actual christain faith by Catholic standards. According to a catholic marriage He was committing adultery when he had sex with the other 2 women they do not consider them or the children from the sex act to be legitimate..

The Mormon doesn't consider you a christian either and thats why after you die the tabulte or death record and pray for you so you don't go to hell because you are not considered a christian.

Church is our own private wholesome experience that should not be darkened or used by politicians.

And if your catholic or mormon it doesn't matter what I am saying because if I am a different religion than catholic or Mormon say for example I am southern baptist than by your standards I am a liberal and not a christian anyways..just saying

If Elton John and Rush Limbaugh decided to get married who would it harm?

That's easy, JOregon.

It would do grievous harm to Elton John. :)

The people of Pennsylvania just don't get it when we kicked Santorum out of our state for poor performance, what is happening to this Country ? This is not the person we need as President of the United States of America. "This is shameful" God help this Nation.

There have been more than 3,000 comments written here in response to Santorum's charge that the president believes in a phony theology, not based on the bible.

We should be demanding an apology from the former Senator Santorum. He continues to pretend that his comments were about environmental policy and not religion.

Act like a man of honor and tell the truth, Santorum.

Liberals are the most vindictive group of people I've ever come across. You ask them a question and they completely go around that question and never answer it. It's as if committing to an answer is the hardest thing for them to endeavor. When you comment on what they say, they come up with 15 other things that have no direct meaning to the original intent of the comment. I asked Patriotic American a very simple question and the snarkiness that came out was incredible. You'd have thought I asked PA to hand me some eye teeth.

JOregon has to be from the liberal lala land in the great northwest. You are all over the place... adding... trying to make your point without ever quite achieving it... although to another liberal reading this blog, you obviously put me in my place... you have liberals respect, but you don't have mine. It will be a cold day in hell for you to obtain mine... but I'm sure you aren't worried about that either.

BrianB... these tenants are things that mankind should espouse because, as I said, they are for the greater good and NOT because they are religious tenants alone. The Preamble of the Constitution states "...promote the general Welfare" which is what I mean by greater good. Just because a government follows laws similar to religious tenants that foster the “GENERAL WELFARE” does not mean that the separation of church and state has been breached. My point was that if religion is so dear to Santorum, you or any other than why do they/you hate programs such as welfare, food stamps, etc. while at the same time attempting to foist religious beliefs onto the electorate (Santorum’s amendment to force schools to teach “intelligent design”, birth at conception, etc.)? Typical example of the RRW picking and choosing which religious beliefs to follow and which to demonize. The hypocrisy of this was my point and NOTHIN more.

Brian

JOregon has to be from the liberal lala land in the great northwest. You are all over the place... adding... trying to make your point without ever quite achieving it... although to another liberal reading this blog, you obviously put me in my place... you have liberals respect, but you don't have mine. It will be a cold day in hell for you to obtain mine... but I'm sure you aren't worried about that either.

I am liberal on somethings, I am conservative on others.

Talk about trying to make a point without achieving it, what do you think your post just was?

I think I must have made my point quite well if this is the best you've got.

BrianB... In JOregon's defense I will answer the questions you posed to him.

You said: "What tyrannical forms of punishment are doled out to anyone that doesn't believe?" This in regards to religious beliefs being foisted upon the citizenry by the governement (Fed or State). In Va the legislature stating that any woman seeking an abortion must submit to a transvaginal ultrasound is fairly "tyrannical".

You said: "They were religion neutral. Have you ever read the 1st Amendment and noticed the 2nd part of the religion clause? There actually is a 2nd part of that statement." Holy F-arino, I finally agree with you on something... What about the Free exercise or Establishment clauses? One states that the US government will not establish an official religion for the US and the other states that the practice of one's religion shall not be infringed upon. Do you really believe that the current administration is running afoul in regards to the 1st Amendment? The contraception issue with Catholic providers of healthcare (a government stipulated requirement regardless of religious affiliation) is not an attack on the Catholic church's belief. It simply states that if you provide healthcare then contraception should be covered. If the Catholic hospitals are against this then they should not be in the healthcare game. It does NOT state that the individual MUST use contraceptives if it is against their beliefs. How about the fact that Catholic hospitals employ secular employees who now can't get contraceptives due to the capitulation to RELIGIOUS organizations by the Administration? Is this "tyrannical" considering, in the US, the employer is (primarily) responsible for providing it?
A single payer healthcare system would eliminate this as an issue so how do you feel about the idea of single payer health insurance? A simple question to answer so....

Excellent work, notliborcon. Nice use of the Bible. By the way, there is one thing about agnostics that has always bugged me. What do agnostics believe in religiously or spiritually??? Do they adapt tenets of all religions??

Agnostics don't know what to believe so they believe in nothing

Freshieee and Paul... Do you own a dictionary? Do you know how to use google? Agnostics believe that there is something similar to what formal religions call God/Allah/Buddha but it cannot be defined by simple beings such as humans. Are you so arrogant as to think that mankind can define a Godlike being or even has a concept of what he/she/it would be/want/espouse? Don't confuse agnosticism with atheism... atheists don't believe in God/Allah/Buddha or any formalized religion. Freshiee, yes, Agnostics, atleast in my case, view the tenants from all religions and attempt to assimilate them into their day and live a "good" and responsible life.

Paul, are you always such a douche?

Yes, but Agnostics, while they don't deny the existence of God, basically cannot make up their mind who God is so they claim, "I'm sorry, I really don't know, so therefore, I cannot commit to anything"

No more of a douche then some of the other douche's that come up with their interesting ideas on this site.

Why be douchey? In addition, do you know who God is? What he looks like? Who created God? Everything has a beginning after all. I thought a basic tenent of Christianity was to be respectful of other's beliefs even if you disagree. If you are the epitome of Christianity then you are a hypocrite when you make inane statements like " Agnostics don't know what to believe so they believe in nothing". Typical Christian taliban.

have you beaten your bible lately?

Critical thinking skills are diapering at a phenomenal rate.

I see that the socialist indoctrination of America is coming along just
as planned.

Thumbs up if you have ever read the US Constitution :)

Who created God?

No one.

God is Spirit and not subject to the laws of the physical universe.

Everything in the physical world comes from something else.

The hard thing for people to grasp is the idea of eternity. God always has been and always will be. In our linear world we really can't wrap our brains around that one.

sorry devie, catholics have to stop by purgatory first. i understand that they did cancel limbo though, so i guess those unbaptised babies got to go in after all. but i still wonder if those souls that had to go straight to hell for eating a hotdog on friday got pardoned and allowed to go to heaven when they changed that rule.

Who cares what his middle name is? It doesn't mean that he has to be Islamic just because he family chose a meaningful middle name from a religion's history.

Anon,

My middle name is Shane and that does not make me a movie character from a 1966 western. Try to stay on point. As to taxes, how low are yours now?

Christ taught love.

Santorum's and the Tea Party's platform is the arch enemy of Love.

These candidates are using the bible as a political tool.

I could not image Christ denying health care to Seniors, taking food from the poor and plundering the earth for Greed. On Judgement Day, Santorum and these other hypocritical candidates - have much sin and transgressions to answer for!

I guess people really are stupid. It's not a matter of Santorum imposing his beliefs on others. It is a matter of Obama imposing his beliefs on others. We are a country that is based on freedom, yet the left seems to have forgotten that. Well, it's possible that they never knew that in the first place.

Just wait until the government tells you you can only drive a Chevy Volt! Family of 7? Nope, not allowed. Just look at the arguments being made about most anything that has to do with driving. Well, if you get into an accident and don't have insurance, the rest of us have to pay for it! Some people just haven't figured it out yet that that is what the argument will always be. The government says let's take care of everybody and a lot of people who haven't a clue what that really means says "great idea" then I won't have to worry about it. Then the government says, well, since we are taking care of you, we have to make sure that we keep costs down, so your children must eat only government approved lunches in school, after all, you don't want to increase your costs by having to treat other people who are obese. Wait until they say you can only have 2 children because it costs money to provide for pre-natal, births and a lifetime of care for additional children born. Heck, we are already at the point of the government mandating payment to prevent the natural results of one's own actions.

The bottom line is that this has nothing to do, and Santorum isn't arguing that this is a religion issue. It is a freedom issue. You don't have the free exercise of religion is you are mandated to do something against your religion. You don't have freedom if you are mandated to do what you don't want.

The democrats are not mandating anything witchrunner. It is a matter of Santorum imposing his beliefs on others. It's the hard right who has forgotten that the minorities have the freedom to choose not to be christian. O'bama is not doing any of the things you propose in paragraph 2. You aren't in favor of the limited democracy that has served this country for so well and so long. If we go along with your argument and vote Santorum into the white house, we will end up having at best a divided government that gets nothing done, and at worst a perfect democracy in which dissent, and peaceful protest, is no longer an option.

I am willing to consider that you are being sarcastic in post #3.6 in that case I am sorry for coming down so hard on you. If, however you mean what you posted, I will take off the kidd gloves with my reply.

I read parts of your column witchrunner, you were not sarcastic when you posted #3.60. Rather then read anymore of your bs I am putting you on mute.

Wade: You can ignore what is in front of you all you want, but it won't change the facts. You can't deny that if the repubs had passed any form of legislation in the manner that Obamacare was passed you'd be really pissed. As Pelosi said, you have to pass the bill to find out what is in it. Now that should be scary to every freedom loving American. Now, we find out that not only did it mandate that we purchase a product from the private sector, but that even if you have objections to the product based on your religion, well tough sh*t! The bottom line is that Obama's dictates, which the dems knew were coming, is forcing the Catholic church to purchase birth control for its employees. That is, buying something that the church teachings is dead against. I'm sure you see no problem with that, which is why I went on to the other stuff. You may think it is a ridiculous rant, but the facts so far prove me right. Look at the Volt. Even when someone buys one, you (if you pay taxes) and I are helping that person buy it!

Look at the dems solution to increasing costs of medical care: Just pay the providers less! Doctors have been leaving the medicare/medicaid system because they can't afford to pay out of their pockets to treat people.

You must have missed the stories about the 4 years olds having their made-at-home lunches taken away from them because they didn't meet Michellecare standards. That should scare the daylights out of every American.

But, you can continue to live in lala land, at least until you are told you have to do something you really don't want to do.

I've made 3 comments on MSN and I've received 20 naked chick
invites.

Critical thinking skills are diapering at a phenomenal rate.

I see that the socialist indoctrination of America is coming
along just as planned.

Thumbs up if you have ever read the US Constitution :)

Diapering, David? Really?

When exactly has Obama espoused this so-called "liberation theology," DB? Cites from Faux Nooz, Drudge, Newsbusters, Teh Blahz, etc., don't count. And if you can't provide a legitimate cite, I call BS on you...

R's please, please, please make the next election about Jeremiah Wright. While you're at it, bring back the birth certificate thing, the secret Kenyan Muslim thing, the terrorist fist-bump, the marxist-communist thing, Bo the dog.

Obviously that is what Americans care about most. Screw that jobs and economy thing.

(Disclaimer: in case you are sarcasm challenged, that's what that was).

DB apparently you don't know what a libertarian is, they would never bring up religion. They feel that would be an infringement on their civil liberties.

Religion, as it is taught, and religious faith, as it is best defined, are both, by participation and trust, respectively, nothing more than a pack of known lies. Most participants join a particular brand mostly to satisfy their need for inclusion within a certain tribal mechanism. Generally, most, then go about their lives, interacting with those of deviate brands, with little social friction. Only when the particular fantasy based dictums are challenged by one to the other, do the participants resort to, first, quarreling, then, on into the vast expanses of savagery, always kept within their reach. The savagery must always be near and understood, since escape from It validates the fantasies afforded them by their particular brand of religion, which they have such a hard time believing, but hope to believe. Many will find fault with me here, nevertheless, it is, what it is.

Conjuring Cat - I doubt that this will help you, but hey, everyone deserves a chance.

Jesus taught liberation through him, not through political action and social action.

Not that I espouse to this sites position exactly, some points here would be well taken in understanding how such a movement is not God, but rather man using theology.

http://liberationtheology.org/criticisms/

Jan - I don't know why you would bring libertarian into this. I am not one, Obama is clearly not one, nor is Santorum.

Mac - people are driven to religion because somehow they figure out that there must be something "else". What we know is we are life that came from somewhere somehow. Religion says that there is a superior being or beings that put this all together.'

Science tries to explain it as it just "happened". Trouble is that science can only offer theories based on a limited knowledge of cause and effect. We spent hundreds of years of trial and error to come up with just a fraction of all physical laws and there still are millions of things we cannot figure out yet.

That should be enough to realize that something had to organize all this and that something somewhere has disrupted and continues to disrupt the organization, whether by intention, or accident. What is interesting is that although things get disrupted, that in time they can return to some state of a new normalcy.

Seems to me we should be seeking for something, that is a whole lot more inteilligent than us. Of course, that would bring on another question. If there is something or things that brought all of this about, wouldn't those entities want you to "find" them?

@ DB#4.10: Darwin theorized HOW life probably began. He continued with HOW life probably evolved. Modern Science pretty much continues to prove His theory is probably correct. If this is finally proven as Scientific law, It would not be in conflict with the existence of the THING, EVENT, CAUSE, FORCE, or BEING who decided WHY life began, or should be, nor, WHAT the purpose of life is.

Religion on the other hand attempts to justify the worst in the nature of competing life, by and through the GLORIFICATION of the DEATH of life. This is done by the promise of rewards to be redeemed at some point after the DEATH of LIFE. An odd attempt at an odd juxtaposition of two diametric opposites.

Science attempts to learn, understand, and explain. Religion attempts to suppress, look backwards, and convey rites of control by dictums, supposedly fundamental to those rites. Regards

Trouble is that science can only offer theories based on a limited knowledge of cause and effect.

Just as true, DB Akron, is that religion can only offer theories based on a limited knowledge of cause and effect.

Why do you think religion has evolved over the millennia, DB? It's because man's knowledge about the material world continues to grow. We no longer worship the sun. A thousand years from now--if we can avoid destroying our species over inane religious differences-- humanity will have a completely different way of seeing and attempting to understand the mysteries of creation.

Religion is a man-made construct that we use in an attempt to explain the unexplainable, nothing more, nothing less.

DB: You're using the fact that science doesn't have all the answers yet as proof there's a God? You realize you're arguing that something isn't true until someone proves it - as if the Sun really did revolve around the Earth until Copernicus noticed it didn't ...

And more generally, why can't it be the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or Xenu or Zeus or Baal? Why does it have to be the Christian God? Lots of other opportunities here.

And since you can never know - never - which God is right, or if there even is one, and what He or She believes, then you (and Rick Santorum) should probably shut up about which values They represent.

DB, there's a book called, I believe, "The Ancient Astronauts" Some of the theories in it make as much, or more, sense than the fairy tales in the Bible.

Exactly, Kyle. There is no more evidence for a christian god than there is for allah, yahweh, vishnu, or any other imaginary deity. The amazing thing is that, considering there isn't the faintest shred of evidence to support the existence of any deity, christians will still behave as though their particular myths are somehow more valid than the fairy stories belonging to literally hundreds of other religions, both past and current.

Religion is the least relevant yard stick by which to judge a political candidate's qualifications. The GOP's sadly dwindling collection of hypocrites, thieves, and crazies are going to lose this election since they cannot form cogent opinions about genuine issues because they are fixated on their hateful cults.

Religion is the least relevant yard stick by which to judge a political candidate's qualifications. The GOP's sadly dwindling collection of hypocrites, thieves, and crazies are going to lose this election since they cannot form cogent opinions about genuine issues because they are fixated on their hateful cults.

That is exactly right, Sailcat. No candidate who claims his or her religion has more validity than that of another candidate has a chance, at least not with rational voters.

Religious hypocrites, have you forgotten what Jesus said?

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

Santorum wears the clothing of a sheep, and religious hypocrites have the minds of sheep.

Mac - Darwin is burried in St Pauls vault. Why do you think that is?

I know! I know! When Charles Darwin, died, his family was planning on burying him in St. Mary's churchyard near the graves of his children. Leading Englishmen, however, lobbied to have him buried in Westminster Abbey alongside other great Englishmen such as Sir Isaac Newton and Sir John Herschel in what is called Scientists' Corner. Darwin's funeral was attended by England's greatest scientists and dignitaries, and among his pallbearers were Thomas Henry Huxley and Alfred Russel Wallace. It was a huge show of respect to the man who discovered the principle that forms the foundation of all biological sciences.

But he was not buried in St. Paul's vault.

Kaybee

Just as true, DB Akron, is that religion can only offer theories based on a limited knowledge of cause and effect.

Religious understanding is not as limited as you might think. The problem appears to have come from translating the Bible from both Hebrew and Greek to other languages. A lot gets lost because terms in those languages often are difficult to give an equivilent in other languagees.

In the last 40 years more original texts have become available, and people have come on board who have learned these difficult to translate lanquages and said wait a minute this should have been said this way instead.

One of the biggest mistranslations is Creation in Genesis. Traditional translation can leave people to believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old. Others dig further in the Bible and discover that the earth is at least 13,000 years old. But, hebrew scholars have come forward showing that

The earth was without form, and void; and darkness ^£was on the face of the deep

Should most likely have been translated "the earth became without form and void and darkness

Here's another stab from Parsons

¹In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth—²the earth hath
existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep,

Now put in that the antartica ice cores show the earth to be around 600,000 years old with ice ages and warming over periods of 13,500 - 15,000 year cycles there should not be such a chasm between Christianity and Science.

You have nearly 2000 years of Christianity belief based on a failure to translate between language correctly. That is tough to turn around but it can be done because of the belief that the earth was flat was changed after about 100 years of effort.

The Flat Earth concept wasn't Christianity alone, it was actually the belief of many pagan religions. Only the Greeks and Romans mythology understood the earth was round.

Biblically four corners became understood to mean the earth was flat, but the reality is that it is about directions not geographical description.

Columbus understood the earth to be round because he had read the verse "it is he that sits on the circle of the earth"

Man's poor understanding of what is written is the problem.

You blew your credibility when you flubbed the Burial Place of Charles Darwin thing. Give it up, DB.

Conjuring Cat

You don't sit in a congregation for 20 years with that type of teaching without picking it up and using it. I watched my dad, a military veteran, walk out of a service when the church we were attending started teaching that it was okay to practice civil disobedience to the government over wars, if you don't think what the government is doing is right. it only took a couple of years to decide that was simply wrong and he couldn't take it any longer.

@Sailcat-2064101: Of course you are correct regarding "Darwin's" interment. I notice your posts often. You display very high and sound cognitive abilities along with an abundance of honesty, regarding historical knowledge. I appreciate you, and all like you. Best Regards

Additionally, I think "DB Akron" is a good and well meaning person. While I seldom agree with DB, I like and respect His/Her passion. Passion, while sometimes misplaced, is not insanity, and wherever honest passion resides, one generally will find Its greater companion, "compassion". Regards, DB Akron

@DB Akron: Wanna see and actually bear witness to the "Evolution of Man"? Read the basis of and for all law in any nation prior to the formation of the US. After you have so done, then, read the "Federalist papers", along with the US constitution. The "UNITED STATES of AMERICA" was, in the minds and hearts of those architects, an ideal of magnificence, equal to the emerging and equal magnificence bursting forth from and among those for whom the construction was meant to serve.

Yes, though it yet waxes and wanes along, shall we allow the mutation of a grander "natural selection" of the worth of "humankind" to regress back into the dark pits of "religious dogma" and the capricious whimsy of the monied and powerful, simply because we fear the discomforts of the heights of our free aspirations, or shall we continue our embrace of the individual and collective greatness revealed within the free and untethered expressions rightfully fitting the place of humankind? Prejudice of contrasts must never be negatively allowed in the just considerations of such. Regards

Religious understanding is not as limited as you might think. The problem appears to have come from translating the Bible from both Hebrew and Greek to other languages. A lot gets lost because terms in those languages often are difficult to give an equivilent in other languagees.

I don't think it is an issue of translation, DB. Religion was created by man, not by God. The bible was written by people, not by God. While I agree that there is a lot of wisdom in the bible, it was never meant to be taken literally. It does not explain all the mysteries of the universe because the ancients who wrote it did not have all the answers. Thousands of years later, we still don't have all the answers. Personally, I can't foresee that we ever will.

Human beings must contend with many questions about our existence, our life and our death. Some choose to find guidance and comfort in religion, and that is fine. The problem arises when one group decides that their beliefs are superior and tries to impose them on everyone. None of us can prove the validity of our beliefs. Therefore, the only way to live in peace is to accept and tolerate other's religions as long as they do no harm. The only way we can exist in harmony in a democracy is to separate the functions of the government that serves all of us from our various unprovable religious dogmas.

You are not going to change my mind about religion, and I know that I will not change yours either.

@kaybeetoys#4.25: Well said! Thanks

The bible has been used over the years to justify slavery, racisism, hatred, bigotry,war, you can go on & on it was originaly a guide to live by it never ceases to amaze me the hatefulness,& misery man, has created & used it to explain thier motives. The Cahtolic church with the ban on birth control, has created overcrowding in poor countries, that has created poverty starvation & misery you go back in history and look at the inquisition. fast forward to the present, and look at the pedophile priest situation & even worse how the hierarcy tried to cover up that mess and you have to wonder. I know they have many well meaning people they have done good things, but if you add up all the good, and then all the evil ,I'm not sure they are any better than anyone else. Obamas solution to the birth control problem based on institutions engaged in secular functions is perfectly in line with the constitution. Santorums statement about Obamas religion is another way to define him as "differant" as "nonchristian" and is racisist & beneath contempt

Thanks, Mac. I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church and there was NEVER a word spoken in our church or in our house against ANY other religion.

As I got older and thought about the inconsistencies of religious dogma, I decided that the teachings of Jesus should be paramount to the dogma of the church. Jesus was s Jew, after all. He was born into a Jewish family and raised as a Jew. The Last Supper was a Passover Seder. If he indeed existed, he lived and died a Jew.

It was not until I was an adult that I learned how prejudiced some religions are against those who believe differently. I was astounded to find that my Catholic friends had been raised to consider Protestants as inferior for not following their One True Religion (a religion, by the way, that imposed such hardships on my non-Catholic ancestors that they braved the American wilderness to escape and live in freedom.)

The Christians of today have a very different attitude to what I was taught: now we must publicly profess that Jesus is our Lord and Savior or we will go to hell. Logically it makes no sense to believe that both A) there is a supreme being who created ALL of us and loves ALL of us, but B) only those who profess that Jesus is the son of God are in His good favor. God, if one exists, created the universe and everything in it. Why would a supreme being pit mankind against itself and give only a "chosen few" the key to salvation?

Too many Christians use their hypocritical attitude to do terrible, evil things and then-- like Gingrich-- confess and all is forgiven as they continue their evil behavior. I have known far too many fine, loving, kind, tolerant and generous people of non-Christian faiths to buy into such nonsense.

We have the intelligence to ask questions about the creation of the universe, and we have the intelligence to use logic and reason. If out of love, self-improvement and comfort, one chooses to follow an illogical and intolerant dogma...that is his/her right. But if the reason to follow such a dogma is our of fear, ignorance and intolerance, I say "Shame on you."

I agree with you, mark.

Imposing his will on the Church? When churches start paying taxes (to the tune of $700 Billion) I'll start listening to what they say.

I don't know. He's such a big dick he probably ued both hands.

There goes my supper, PAQ... :-)

You can kiss my hammy.

32 AD.

I think a few people better be careful, just in case this guy IS sent by God.

I hope that you are just being sarcastic.....This guy IS NOT sent by GOD. Just because he is a man and he is white, he is not the messiah.

If you really want to find God in people, try to find it by having compassion for the homeless, the mentally disabled, etc. All the people that the Republicans want to throw under the bus.

If everything is of God's making except evil, I think we can safely conclude Santorum is not of his making!

Want to know: If you think that Santorum is a religous wack case don't go to oklahoma because they are worse when it comes to having 10 to 15 kids(because they are a gift from god then go get on food stamps in order to feed them) and home schooling them all to keep them out of the world.

i f santorum is sent by"god" then god must be severely retarded~!

@akron

everything is of his making, except evil.

wait, wait a second. according to christianity god created everything. the heavens and the earth for starters and on the earth he created this nice little garden. in that garden he placed a tree, a very special tree called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. so it was god who placed evil within the garden in this tree. there it sat, evil that is, sleeping. causing no trouble just sitting there and then what does god do? he creates a couple of humans and gives them free will to do as they choose. he gives them all that they need and tells them they can have anything in the garden. well except the fruit of that one tree. you know that tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he created and put there. now tell me, what is the first thing a kid does when you tell them that they cannot have something or cannot do something. that's right, as soon as you are not looking they do it.

face it, god created that evil and put it where we could make a choice concerning it. god knew that those two humans he made would fail and he put that tree there anyways.

Not that long ago R's screamed no additional welfare payments to families who have more kids after they go on welfare. Now that so many of them have mega families on the government teat, they scream about no birth control.

Another point, most of this rhetoric about denying women reproductive freedom and having mega families is born of the racist agenda that has grabbed hold of the religious right in this country. The Neo Nazi's, and their ilk have thrown their lot in with the right wing christians. It is not about anything other than white men who are afraid of the 'other' having a say in the world. Most of the women in these groups think they are strong but they 'obey' their husbands, dress, vote, act,etc. as the male head of house tells them to. It is sad to watch, as the lens turns on the right look at the wives of these men and see submission and fear. Then look to the first lady and see independence and partnership.

@Ollie

Please go away troll. You just joined and you post that crap. If you're getting paid you're ripping them off. BEGONE TROLL!!! You are not welcome here.

santorum is secretly an obama supporter. he knows that if he is the repub candidate obama is a shoo in. thank you rick for doing all in your power to re-elect pres obama. your lunatic rantings are a great act----it is an act isn't it?

God did not create evil. All that God created was good. Evil is what happens when you take away good, it is like a vacuum. Just like in physics you find that darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat. God created man with a free will. Man may accept and embrace the good that God created, or reject it and become evil.

You cannot have religious freedom if you can say that a religious affiliated organization has to pay for something they find morally wrong. The fact that they do not pay for birth control does not prevent someone from going to a doctor, getting a prescription, and buying it out-of-pocket. I've had to buy medicines a lot more expensive out-of-pocket because insurance companies did not allow the needed medicine on their approved list and so have many others. I know someone whose doctor says he needs gastric by-pass surgery, but his insurance says it is "cosmetic" and refuses it even though he needs to lose about 400 pounds. Life just isn't always fair. But that does not give us the right to trample on freedom of religion and moral conscience of others.

That being said, if Santorum was quoted correctly, he is not helping the cause. Judging theology should not be part of the political debate. Judging whether something violates freedom to believe and practice those beliefs is a valid political debate.

Moderators: Ollie Tabooger is an OBVIOUS rereg, Please delete his account and ban any reg's from his ISP forever please. You have the tech, please use it!!

@akron & EAE 886609,

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Better go back to sunday school!

I think a few people better be careful, just in case this guy IS sent by God. God, from what I remember has a free will, just like us. He can do whatever he pleases - everything is of his making, except evil.

By golly, DB, I think you're right!

Santorum, if sent by God, was sent to make certain that Barack Obama wins re-election. :)

Nice shootin', kaybeetoys! Bulls eye!

solomon

Fail

You used the King James Version - to which calamity in the middle english was synonomous with evil

Here is what most translations use

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; NKJV

I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things. NIV

Evil - sinful, iniquitous, depraved, vicious, corrupt, base, vile, nefarious. See bad¹ . 2. pernicious, destructive. 6. wickedness, depravity, iniquity, unrighteousness, corruption, baseness. 9. disaster, calamity, woe, misery, suffering, sorrow

I can find only 2 translations that have use the term "evil". Given the passage was talking about Nations, the word calamity has to be the correct word.

Solomon, you are not even close to King Solomon.

Snicker! Good luck with convincing all the KJV followers that they've been following a wrong translation, and that yours is right. Or with maintaining the fiction that yours doesn't have any errors in it, or that any version is the 'correct' one, or that the bible in general isn't the most edited book in history, etc, etc,...

And WOW , did you get my name reference wrong.

Soloman Kane was a literary creation of Robert E. Howard DB. I choose the KJV if I am going to cite anything. The text is closer to Judaism then the rewritten NKJV. It accepts the existence of other religions. It is more tolerant of the poor then many conservatives today. Not that I think any copy of the bible is perfect. To me the geological and fossil record say more to me about how our planet was created.

I like your choice of nicks Soloman.

There is no right translation. Some may be better because they are more correct for the language of the day, but even the KJV was probably the most correct in the 1600's when it was completed.

Wade - I hear you. KJV is my favorite, I just have to watch out for some of the severe changes word meanings that have happened in 400 years.

@DB Akron: Respectfully suggest you give it up, and call it a learning experience. Especially during a dry spell, one goes to the spring too often, someone will break His/Her pitcher. "Solomon Kane" just broke yours.

Mark Twain had it right Adam didn't want the apple for the apples sake he was human he wanted it because it was forbidden, the mistake was in not forbiding the serpent then he would have eaten the serpent

Mac, Soloman Kane, is not as well known as Conan of Cimmeria, or King Kull. DB was very nice about my post and I respect that.

@Wade, Tampa: Agree. I personally was not a fan of any of R.C. Howards written fantasies. Just looked like DB was putting Him/Her self too far out on very small limb. Meant no disrespect toward DB.

Excuse me. Meant "R. E. Howard"

E.A.E. I expect the doctor or nurse practioner to offer every medical option legally available for my health. I don't care if he or she objects to some of those on religious grounds. If a health care professional is willing to put a patients life at risk or refuse to peform a desired proceed that will not endanger the patient then that person has no business practicing medicine. A medical professional better leave religion at the door when dealing with a patient.

Hello, beej mcl!

@ #7.10:

I don’t know if God actually created good and evil, as we liken the term “creating”…what I have always believed as a Christian is that God provided mankind with the opportunity to choose his fate, as He has always done (according to biblical history, anyway)…

What a lot of people who don’t believe in God (in whatever form or shape or context) tend to reprise, in my opinion, is this very concept: that God created the very ails and calamities that afflict us all—or, if He didn’t create them, then he surely isn’t doing enough to stop them…if He even cares at all…

For me, it has always been about FREEDOM OF CHOICE, or free will. If you believe that the devil was once an angel in heaven with God, you believe that he had a falling-out with the big guy, got about a third of his fellow angels to see things his way, and after a pretty big dust-up about it, got himself and his buddies kicked out of heaven and into a nasty place called hell that was already waiting there for them…

Kinda creepy, to me, how God seems to always plan ahead for those types of things, but I’ll try to stay on track…

Once you strip away a lot of the myth, superstition, and idiosyncrasies of the Bible, I’ve always come to the conclusion that aside from God’s own feelings on the matter, by and large, mankind determines mankind’s fate. If God does anything consistently at all, to me, it’s to make sure that we remember that.

I will submit to you that I believe that, even if God knew that those two humans would fail to choose wisely in that garden (as I’m sure God WOULD know…wouldn’t be much of a God if he DIDN’T know something like that), He still gave those people the OPPORTUNITY to choose.

God’s own behavior after Adam and Eve ate that fruit and hid in the bushes from Him says more to me about what God intends for us a human beings, than anything else I’ve ever read in relation to Him. God gave both Adam and Eve the opportunity individually to own up to what they had done. To repent, in the religious vernacular. Because repentance would have brought about the necessity of responsibility that comes with free will, and how conscience must be at the forefront of all our decisions…as far as we are able to perceive it, anyway.

When God said that He wanted to make man in his own image, he meant a creature with the same conscientiousness as He possessed. God could have made things in any order he wished—He could have made the people first and had them floating in space while he made the world they were going to inhabit last…or he could have made the woman before he made the man…He could have done anything he wished…but as we are constanly learning through science and education, there is a reason and an order to the construction of things…the are some conditions that have to be met first, before another condition can be satisfied.

I’m certainly not lecturing you…I would suppose that you’re my senior by at least a good 20 years, so you perhaps more wisdom than I do in the ways of life. But I think that God is not as far away from us as we think He is (or have been led to believe by those with a pulpit or a position of power)…

…and that He certainly isn’t out to get us, or is playing some kind of cruel cosmic joke on all of us.

That was Al Pacino’s line in “Devil’s Advocate”, I believe. I believe it from Pacino (nobody could play a character like Tony Montana so masterfully and not have at least had a drink with Satan at some point), but God’s on our side. I believe that.

Just wish more of us were on His….

Who was is that said "I wish I would have met Christ before I met Christians"?

Jesus seems like a pretty stand up guy from everything I've heard. The world would be a better place if more people acted like him. But you got it right. Many just want to use Jesus for power over others. Whether it's political power, power over what people can and can't do, or personal power by judging the shortcomings of others continually. He'd probably be gnashing his teeth in anger if he came back and saw how people twist his intentions around. Or just forgive them for being fools. We're all just human after all.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mohandas Gandhi

Ghandi, I like your Christ very much. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike Christ.

Mark Twain, It's not the parts of the Bible I don't understand that worry me, its the parts that I do understand.

DB, nothing illogical about it. Jesus was OK (except for when he let his friends go home drunk and refused to help a woman because she wasn't of the right race until she debased herself before him), but so is Superman, Frodo, and Gilgamesh. All four are fictional characters but still have some good qualities.

He'd probably be gnashing his teeth in anger if he came back and saw how people twist his intentions around. Or just forgive them for being fools. We're all just human after all.

Just human...with nuclear weapons that can be used to annihilate ourselves in the name of our god, which is better than your god.

Somehow, I don't think whatever power created the universe, and created life, would be in favor of religion at all.

Dangerous - the first Ruler in written history to invoke Christ in a battle was Constatine. "in this sign (the Christian Cross) you shall conquer".

One has to wonder - was it really God's instructions? Or was Constantine recognizing the numbers of people becoming Christians and found a way to get their support?

Kaybee - I'd have to check, but I don't believe that Truman used the bomb on Japan over the furtherance of Christianity. The only people stating they would use Nuclear power to further their religious beliefs is Iran.

I don't think whatever power created the universe, and created life, would be in favor of religion at all

I agree. According to The Bible, we were supposed to have a direct relationship with God. But we chose to go our own way. Because of the resulting chasm, man started forming God in his own image, and worshiping his own way resulting in many individual religions with varying numbers of followers and varying beliefs. Religion is a poor substitute for speaking face to face.

Christianity is about the re-establishing of that broken relationship. Many of the practices and beliefs are additions of traditions, and often mistaken understandings that have occured over time. The reformation was about Christianity trying to refocus on Christ because the practices were becoming pre-eminent.

Exactly, DB...Iran would start a nuclear war with the prodding of Rick Santorum. We don't need a hot-headed war monger like Santorum as president itching to bring on Armegeddon, do we?

But, as you see, there is a big separation between brain and mouth.

Maybe there is no separation between church and state in Alaska, but in the lower 48 and Hawaii it does indeed exist and will continue to exist while I have breath in my body.

Well said, kaybeetoys! Some religious extremists believe that a separation between church and state only applies to other people's churches, not their particular cult. When it comes to their hateful religious ideology, however, these crazies become rabid about draping the government, schools, and all secular institutions in the primitive myths and intolerant doctrines they hold so dear. I am therefore with you 100%...a complete separation between church and state "...will continue to exist while I have a breath in my body."

Thank you. It's the bedrock upon which this democracy was built, Sailcat. Don't they teach this in school anymore? Too many people over the centuries have braved hardship and death for us to have freedom of and from religion, and I am not going to allow anyone to trample on our rights because they wear a flag or carry a bible.

All good people of conscience understand the value of religious tolerance and tolerance in general, but we will not tolerate a theocracy in America.