Egilman,

Yes, Romney does think he can buy the election - with a little help from his 1% friends - and with the blessing of the GOP establishment. Look at the games they have been playing at the Maine caucus (and others) with Dr. Paul's vote.

Phine, I did see your post about your granddaughter. You must be so proud!

Phine,

If there was any question of fraud in this republican nomination process, it was uncovered in Maine....

Looks like Dr Paul is going to come out ahead in Maine.... Mitts four election losses in a row, and counting....

Wayne,

She is the apple of my eye (and her "Peepaw's"). I love her dearly and so very, very proud of her.

Egilman,

You even called the voter fraud in Nevada. The GOP has "the fix" in for Romney. I hope they are in for a nasty surprise!

I think there are a number of electable billionaires or near-billionaires in this country. Not sure any of them would be willing to take the pay-cut though. For Romney, it seems this is more about an ego-trip, about fulfilling a lifelong expectation by achieving what his daddy never could. You'd have to be an egomaniac to even think about wanting the job of President.

As Lex Luthor once said to Superman, "Do you have any idea how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"

Nathan,

First, cudos for the Superman analogy! Love it!

And didn't we just recently go through 8 years of a president with "daddy" issues? I really don't think the country can afford to be the pshrink for another!

Obama's BUYING his Re-election. $2 BILLION Dollars worth.

Obama's campaigning today in Wisconsin and California, Fund-raising.

Kennedy's Dad bought his election.

Bottome line: It would be increasingly difficult for the mainstream media to continue to sell Mitt Romney like this if he dropped the last four states, especially with there being over two weeks until the next contest.

I know what you're thinking but I think most publicity is good publicity at this stage.

[Obama's BUYING his Re-election. $2 BILLION Dollars worth.]

So it's $2 billion now? Did Fox "news" revise it's number because the "$1 billion" talking point didn't get much traction?

...FAIL...

Wayne,

I also remember some southern senators who happened to have a Toyota or Honda plant in their state that were more than willing to see the death of GM and Chrysler.

That is the whole point! What on Earth happened to "Be American, buy American?" Mitt deserves to lose his own state. He knows if he does his quixotic cause is lost.

Showing my age a little here, do you remember the old "look for the union label" commercials as a symbol of buying American?

I do remember those ads. Now unions are fighting for their lives Phine, because as you say, republicans want it all. If they get their way we will all be poor because nobody will be able to afford the crap they are trying to sell.

Wayne,

To be honest (noting here I grew up in a union family and worked for GM) unions did get almost too powerful and did start to demand the moon. That being said, they are Americans, too, and were and still are willing to do what it takes (even renegotiating contracts) to put America back on top.

Unions are the middle class. Without a middle class, we are nothing.

Phine,

Anybody can go overboard. Unions these days are not getting the moon. They are in a survival mode trying to keep their members working. They are, as you say, saving the middle class.

Wayne,

I agree. But, each side has to have a "boogey man". For the right, the union is the "boogey man" card they love to play. (BTW, I still look for that union label)

I look for the label too. The difference is that the right would have the opportunity to wipe out union opposition if they had the kind of majority that Bush had when he came into office. Democrats couldn't and wouldn't do that the the right's base. Money is the corrupting influence that has been made worse by the Supreme Court.

Let me explain something about the auto bail outs, I'm not necessarily against them, the situation we wound up with is very close to what the companies would have been in if they went through normal bankruptcy reorganization procedures, except if they had the taxpayers would have been on the hook for all the pension funds. the bailout's allowed the taxpayer out from under picking that tab up which was a good thing.

What was bad about it was transferring ownership to the union, that was WRONG! the reason I say this is the pension funds were under the management of the unions in the first place, and the reason the companies were going under is poor under capitalized pension funds. when the market collapsed it took the value of the funds with it and the companies had to re capitalize the funds from company assets. The companies did not have the liquidity to do that. ergo sum, bankruptcy, and stick the taxpayers with the funds bailout. From this standpoint a government bailout and takeover was the only way to go.

Wayne,

The left has never had the blood lust to go for the jugular the way the far right does! Look at what happens whenever they (the right) get control, it is one petty investigation after another.

If someone wanted to investigate anyone, we should take a long hard look at some of the justices. I question whether or not they really are "impartial".

Egilman,

I looked at the automobile bailout more than just GM and Chrysler. It was all the suppliers and dealers. So many to be hurt had they gone under. It would have been the Great Depression all over again.

You are right Phine, I wouldn't want to belong to the party looking to sever the jugular. I am a Democrat, the party that looks out for the needs of almost all of the people in this nation. Those they don't look out for don't need anyones help! Goodnight! Time for bed!

Good night Wayne. Heading that way myself.

Egilman, it is a tremendous exaggeration to say that they "transferred ownership to the union." Exiting bankruptcy, a 17-18% stake of GM was held by the UAW VEBA, a trust fund for the payment of benefits, not the union itself. Moreover, this "ownership" stake was non-voting. It entitled the union fund to a single non-voting director on the company's board. Chrysler was essentially sold to Fiat, not handed over to union ownership either.

That all-American company, G.M., was mis-managed for decades, treated suppliers very badly, etc.

Most people who had anything to do with G.M. couldn't wait for them to go bankrupt, so that G.M. could start over, get their act together and emerge as a much better company.

If it wasn't for union greed, we'd have many, many more manufacturing companies in this country.

Unions don't create jobs and they certainly don't keep jobs either., if you look at all the manufacturing companies that went out of business in the past decade.

Unions caused their own demise.

Are you kiddin' us? Unions had very little to do with the demise of General Motors. It was a GM management overreach in ownership of several failing brands ( Hummer and Saab, for instance) coupled with the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression. Know anyone who was buying cars during the period where 650,000 jobs were shed monthly by corporations? It was a cash crunch unheard of before.

Those 'evil' unions took a hell of a cut in salary and benefits- all contract provisions previously agreed to by both them and management in a better economic time- just to see the American car industry survive. I personally appreciate what they did because I cannot see a future with only foreign cars to choose from. Who wants to see America without the Ford and Chevy rivalry? I hate the idea of Toyotas racing in NASCAR for God's sake! They don't belong there!

There IS a benefit for unions to be in this country. Just about every benefit we get from our employers were fought for (and universally accepted nationally) from union contracts. Granted, they or no one can keep companies from eliminating US jobs and sending them overseas until a level playing field is established for American workers. We will never be able to compete with slave labor camps in China where they have put up nets to stop workers from suicide attempts at thier worksite, nor should any country's workforce have to compete with that. The real reason most corporations fight against union organization is that they recognize there is a benefit to the individual worker with representation. That is a fact.

To say union greed is the reason for manufacturing to close plants is erroneous at best. Try cheap labor with no regard for the workers in oppressive communist countries coupled with the greed from corporation boards and stock market traders. The NAFTA and GATT free trade agreements also screwed Americans with unfair policies that guaranteed the demise of manufacturing in the USA. Import and export tariffs are totally in favor of the imports in double digit proportions, as an example. Who influenced these policies the most, unions or corporations? The exodus of manufacturing jobs clearly points to the latter.

So Paul let me get this straight, you would be willing to take a 50% cut in pay right now so that your company could be more profitable in lieu of the threat of closing down and moving to India or China.

I say take that option away from them by taking away the American market if they choose to leave.

Nathan,

You have it there in a nutshell. It's all about money and power. And the GOP wants it all.

The president was saving American manufacturing jobs while the opposition was trying to kill them. There is no excuse for what the republican party did here. Let's not forget that letting the big three go would have deepened the recession and perhaps pushed us into a depression. To say it's okay for republicans to cut union jobs is the same thing as saying it's okay for the Democrats to shut down corporations that raise funds for the republican party. What the republicans tried to do was nothing short of criminal and a violation of the oath of office that they all took.

The thing is, be ye on the right, be ye on the left or be ye in the middle, the voting fraud and the out and out attempts to buy elections (and both sides have some guilt here) should be appalling to all Americans!

Nathan,

I disagree with the Citizens United Decision by the Supreme Court, it's right up there as bad law the same as Roe vs Wade. there is no corporate personhood in the constitution, just as there is no right to privacy.

That being said, It does level the playing field as far as campaign supporters go, they can raise as much money as they like from anywhere in any amounts they like. That's as level as it gets.

Both sides have the opportunity to do the same, this is the way it was for many many years, until the 90's. Are the Democrats afraid they cannot raise the same amounts as the republicans? Is this why they are whining about it? where is all that rhetoric about the president's billion dollar campaign war chest now?

Interesting questions, are the democrats really for a level playing field?

Egilman,

I can answer that. No. Each side wants the field tilted towards them - and to heck with the American people!

Good grief, Romney is such a liar he can't even keep his lies straight any more. He didn't call for an organized bankruptcy, he called for standard bankruptcy to bust the unions and it didn't matter if the reputation of these auto companies were destroyed in the process. He should know, that's what he did at Bain Capital--kill companies by bankrupting them after sucking all the money they could from them. Romney cheering against America, against American workers. It doesn't matter whether the workers are union or nonunion, what matters is that the American auto makers are alive and well and those unions workers took pay cuts, cuts to benefits and cuts to pensions to help their employer find the way back.

Why is it no republican can ever mention the auto companies and that loaning the money to the auto industry was about SAVING JOBS, good paying jobs not just at those plants but the multitude of suppliers and car dealers nationwide and saving an iconic American industry during the worst economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Instead Romney and the GOP use union workers as a wedge issue; they pit one group of workers against another and call themselves patriots. Thank you, President Obama for ignoring the Mitt Romneys and all the other naysayers and right-wing profiteers.

Jody,

I've been calling mitts a liar for months now, he is only in this for the ego trip and what he can do to pump his bottom line.....

They can't buy me and I think most americans think the same way....

Living here in the center of Tea Party country I can tell you for a fact they hate, really hate, Romney. A lot of them say if he is they nominee, they will not vote for him.

Egilman,

As a Democrat, I am not whining about SCOTUS ruling . I am angry! And I am sad.

Of course there are SuperPacs raising tons of money to support Obama and other Democrats running for office.

This election and all future elections will be about the voice of the moneyed interest. So it comes down to my millionaire is better than your millionaire.

The average voter will have to figure out how to sort out fact from fiction.

What makes me sad is the money spent does not go to anything productive, but each superpac has hired political cronies who run so called "consulting firms" that get at least 10% of any ad buy. If Romney's superpac spent 5million for their negative ad buys against Gingrich, the consultant had a outrageous income for one weeks work.

If these donors can write check for millons at a pop, why dont they use their money for producing a real good for society?

Untii we stop this way of financing any campaign , which will not happen, this is what democracy looks like.

Nathan,

...pushing for anti-union laws in every state where they have power is not because of their conservative principals (which many of these laws violate), but because politically they want to inhibit their adversaries ability to organize or raise money.

This is an easy thing to say, but say it to the thousands of union workers in the State givernment who were forced into having union dues forcibly removed from their paychecks and turned over to the unions, there was a huge fight over it by the rank and file. They didn't like their choices being legally mandated for them. it really pissed them off.

Wayne,

What the republicans tried to do was nothing short of criminal and a violation of the oath of office that they all took.

The republicans didn't try to do anything, they were willing to allow the companies to do the usual bankruptcy re-organization they usually do and allow the pension funds fall on the taxpayers. and lets not forget, Ford decided to go their own way, and managed to avoid both bankruptcy and bail-out, and are now the strongest of the big three. They did it by cooperation of and with the UAW. GM and Chrysler were not in the financial position to avoid it and the government stepped in and the taxpayers took a little hit, not the massive hit they would have taken if they went into bankruptcy. I look at it as a win for the American people overall, but I do disagree with some of what was done.

Northstar,

As a conservative, I agree with you 100% it is a HUGE waste....

Remember this - WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY!!! Until we get the campaigns shortened and the MONEY out of the hands of politicians and PACs, we will get exactly what we PAY FOR!

Egilman,

We now agree on two thing, the first one was bald eagles are awesome!

Unions destroyed themselves. Those of us in manufacturing watched the greedy unions ruin so many companies.

Northstar,

We now agree on two thing, the first one was bald eagles are awesome!

I said a few weeks ago that I think we agree on many more things than just these two...

Paul would you say the same of corporate CEO's and the like? After all, their incomes have gone up 300 percent while the middle-class struggles to make gains. At least the unions have been willing to make concessions while the few at the top continue to rape this country.

Lyn,

What would really help is more mass transit. Even my small town is now trying to start a bus line.

I drive a Subaru. Full time 4WD There is NO American vehicle that gets the combination of economy plus reliability OR I WOULD DRIVE IT!!

Sez YOU, of course. Personally, I would have let them sink or swim on their own merits - ALL OF THEM

Bob in Virginia. You are correct., that's exactly what happened. Crony Capitalism under Obama.

who were these investors ........ willard ? ging-rich , sanctamonious ????

[I worked in the Public sector, got a nice fat pension...]

So, in other words, you're suckling at the "Gubment teat"? I give you credit for admitting it, though. But you've "got yours", right?

Shame on you, Jofus...shame on you...what do your conservative friends think about that?

Romney captured the private sectors pensions through "crony capitalism" while leading Bain Capital. He and his family own many Americans promised pensions.

Vote for Romney and he will steal the rest of our nations security.

Mickey, Mickey.

I learned in grade school that the concept of "fair" is something used on the playground. It has no real meaning in adult life. (except when giving a political speech, or trying to sell used cars)

Yes, I got mine, and now all of you can go out and try and get yours. Simple.

I see I forgot the one for Speech, of Arrested Development, they did many campaign spots for Obama in '08, prefers Dr Paul now, he's in the list above I just forgot his links...

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-10/politics/31044949_1_obama-ron-paul-partisan-rifts

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/crossfade/2012/02/arrested_development_rapper_speech_obama_ron_paul.php

http://current.com/community/93657822_arrested-development-rapper-speech-im-disillusioned-with-obama-and-i-would-vote-ron-paul-for-president.htm

Egilman, I honor your opinions but you are certainly off-base on the question of pension management. The workers pension have always been fully finded and actually had huge surpluses until the accounting rules were changed (1987) that allowed executives to strip the surpluses, add in unfunded executive golden parachute pension benefits and use them to bolster their bonuses. The only reason unions still have pensions is they have collectively bargained contracts that eliminated the executives opportunity to steal them. All is not what big business executives advertise in the loss of US pensions.

You should read up on the pension raids from 1987 onto the present. it is quite eye opening and demonstrates clearly why the rich got so rich and the middle class got wiped out.

James,

Thank you for pointing this out, I was unaware and will look into it.

We cant know everything all the time.

Thank you

Arlin save your MSLSD TV talking points for dopes that will listen to you and deduce, falsely, you are learned.

You are functioning on erroneous information. US working persons pension funds were fully funded and created huge surpluses until the executive were allow to load them up with unfunded executive parachute pension benefits. The liabilities you site were intentionally created by the executives to first enlarge their bonuses and then to cut benefits for the workers.

You should read about the pension heists committed by the crony executives of almost all US companies. the pension were used, since 1987, as nothing but slush funds for executive excess.

James - those CEO parachutes you blame for pension funding issues consist mostly of stock options and warrants they can turn into cash money. They rarely take cash in the form of a check. They take stock as per the Board of Directors approval.

The only bigwigs that have ever stolen from the pension funds, whether they be UAW, Teamsters, et al., are Union bosses in bed with mafia thugs.