Agreed. His comments about letting GM and Chrysler fail should haunt him here in MI. But maybe his Daddy's legacy will carry him to a win. Right now Santorum is leading in the polls so maybe Mitt's going to be sniffing Rick's butt wind.

As Teddy Roosevelt said in so many words that without labor, there can be no capital.

Santorum has a little money now, but nothing like Romney's warchest - which will open far and wide to avoid an embarrassing loss in Michigan.

The question on the minds of most Republicans going in to vote will be Santorum's earmarks.

The rust belt is exactly that history. Until someone comes up with a new idea that can take hold there, such as a new power source, some form of battery, a new metal that is light weight and durable that area is onlt good for tattoo parlors.

And noone remembers that the first bailouts were done by, GEORGE W. BUSH. But, I guess those were good bailouts, done by a Republican, the ones done by President Obama were bad bailouts. Lying sacks of xxxx. I am so sick of the pandering and hatred from the GOP.

It used to be that the GOP would help govern. Now, they just oppose anything that helps America. They really need to be removed from office.

Though this may blunt some Romney negative effectiveness. Just breaking on the news now - apparently the Mormons baptized Elie Wiesel posthumously. Except Wiesel isn't dead, and he found out about it. I'd guess that people who care about such things and know the Mormons do that watch those 'geneological' databases. Wiesel, a Jewish holocaust survivor, didn't appreciate the baptism and is telling Romney to tell his church to stop doing things like that.

For a lot of people here, it may seem more funny than anything else. For a lot of people elsewhere, these posthumous baptisms are kinda a big deal.

"Let Detroit go bankrupt" did I say that mused Mitzy Ro-money? Oh, that was just a slip of the tongue or maybe just something I was thinking and said in some other state to a different audience that just ate it up. But, now that I'm here to ask for your vote Michiganders what I really meant to say was "bailout Detroit"! You believe me don't you? Can't wait for the general election and what a rout it will be. Mitzy just can't take back all the stupid things he has said. Not that he has to worry about his mindless base. Then again who really knows what's going on in those vacuumm headed repub-bots?

obama has pushed programs that have hurt jobs in all sectors, obamacare, Cap & Trade and Dodd Frank

bills, as well as killing 20,000 jobs on keystone pipeline. Romney will be much more job friendly than

obummer. Romney created 120,000 more jobs at Bain, than obama did as a lawyer for Acorn, suing

banks to make bad loans. Obama is part of the problem, not the solution. The company that is

doing the best and not costing tax payers billions in more debt is Ford. Ford received no money

from Feds.

RD, there are millions of Americans that would disagree with you. Saying that President Obama has hurt anything is nothing more than a Republican "talking point". Had it not been for the help millions of Americans received through President Obama's policies, many of us would be homeless, and because of Republcians' obsession with President Obama instead of being obsessed with the health, wealth and well-being of the American People, it has been Republicans who hurt us most, even before President Obama came to office.

For you to say that Romney is a "jobs creator" as opposed to a "jobs CREMATOR" is nothing more but another Republican "talking point". Romney made his millions by liquidating American businesses, laying off American Workers, and shipping American Jobs Overseas.

After the lies we suffered during the last Republican Administration, the majority of Americans have learned better than to take Republicans' "word" for just about anything.

Obama / Biden 2012

Bain Capital would buy control of a company that had a distressed stock price, temporarily boost the profits by firing people and offshoring jobs to cut costs, use that temporary boost to get big bank loans, then charge exorbitant "management fees" to make millions, then spin the business off laden with debt. Not surprisingly, those companies usually went bankrupt, but Romney doesn't count those as his "job losses", as the company was technically not owned by him at the time of their bankruptcy. Oh, but Romney does count as "job creation" those few companies that, amazingly, somehow overcame the debt burden Bain put on them and went on to success and growth.

Romney wants to apply those same principles to the US Government, benefitting himself and his rich buddies with reduced taxes and fat Government contracts, and screwing everyone else.

He is screwed in Michigan, George Bush initiated the automobile bailouts, Obama just added money to it. Bush has said he would do it again and commended Obama for it. The fact is those bailouts saved so many jobs, it was the most successful bailout by far and that money has mostly been paid back. Romney would have just let it fail? He is the failure, sad when Bush shows himself to be better than that.

Only the idiots on the far right disagree with those bailouts, frankly I am tired of seeing all of them cower to morons.

In this case, Romney is being consistent with his values. He's upset because the Wall Street investors lost money when GM and Chrysler went bankrupt, but the companies were saved and the jobs of union workers were saved. In his mind, the welfare of a few wealthy investors is more important than that of hundreds of thousands of middle class workers who, by the way, made concessions worth $30K per employee. Of course, he is desperately looking for a way to flip flop on it. What did we expect?

Romney seems set against the auto industry..and the bailout they received...as yet however, I have not heard him make that statement against the banking industry...who were also bailed out. Shouldn't they have been alloweed to fold up also..or is Romney and the rest of the republican field too much a part of that same banking group ?

Romney has the same problem Obama has. They both think too much of themselves and are full of it. Neither one of those jokers deserves to be president of this fine country!

Let them go bankrupt! Now will you vote for me?

Just amazing.

CM - most of the companies Bain buys are "distressed" they are headed to bankruptcy. I.E. the jobs were going to be lost. Bain has taken over hundreds of companies and you are focused on a few that they failed to handle appropriately. Worse yet, you are blaming Romney for some failures that he was not present or responsible for.

Where I come from they call that pessimism.

On this issue this is where Romney doesn't quite get it and Santorum does. Romney gave a short response that was accurate but indifferent. Santorum took the time to show that the biggest difference in the Obama plan and a bankruptcy was that the Unions got a large share, and investors got the shaft. What the Republicans came up with in congress was that unions, the Creditors, and the investors would share equally. If GM went to bankruptcy almost anything could happen, but Creditors, and investors would possibly get favored more than the Union.

You know what, I could have at least respected Romney if he had had the balls to say it to our faces. But he didn't. He fed us this drivel about how he cared about Michigan and how the economy needed to be saved, then after he got our votes he wrote a piece called "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."

You really think we should have let Detroit go bankrupt? Then grow a pair and say it to our faces, not after you get our votes and are sitting safely amongst your Wall Street Brethren.

We are too quick to forget the good many companies have done for this Nation. During WWII General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Willys, and other auto companies manufactured the planes, tanks, trucks, ships, and weapons it took to defeat Germany in Europe and Japan in the Pacific. No other Nation or manufacturers at the time could have done what our auto makers did. Sure, they made money, but they also made war material at a record pace or else we may not have won the War. There were thousands more American companies that did their share to win that war, but people do need to be reminded just how important the Auto Industry is to this Nation. Should the need arise again, I have no doubt that these companies could again retool to support any need this Nation may have.

The jobs these companies provide and the outside suppliers that also flourish when the Big Three are going strong is yet another benefit to the Nation. Allowing these Companies to fail while giving huge tax breaks to foreign producers in my opinion would have been almost treason. When President Bush began the TARP bailout, it was for those "financial institutions that were too big to fail". We bailed out Banks, Insurers, and Wall Street at record numbers in funds and institutions that received those funds, but when it came to the Auto Companies that employed over 150,000 workers directly and at least twice that many indirectly the Republicans balked. No money for the companies that had the most blue collar workers, but all the funds in the National Treasury(that really wasn't there) they handed out to their Financial backers like candy. Now, who do you think really cares about the hourly wage earner.....the GOP or....... well you figure it out. Finally lets not forget that word that flies in the face of GOPers, Unions. Workers have Unions, not all workers, The Big Money People have Lobbyists, PACs, and Consultants with History Degrees along with Bain. You know the people who got Congress to allow Companies to move from our shores and allow Investors to buy troubled companies and fire the people while selling the assets. Hope this offends someone, but the truth stands when the world in on fire.

Here is a link to one of the best counter arguments to Romney's on the auto bailouts. This guy details why Romney is wrong on some of his claims concerning the bailouts. Happy reading!

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/mitt-romney-gets-wrong-detroit-automakers-bailouts-154006392.html

Romney is going to get his a s s handed to him in Michigan.

.

I sure hope so!

Romney is wrestling with the "auto bailouts" in Michigan? The bailouts will quickly "bodyslam" and pin the deadman.

Fact: The private sector ALWAYS does things better, and much more efficiently than the government ever could do them. There are too many cases that prove this.

That being said, if GM and Chrysler would not have gotten a bailout, and went the route of a chapter 11 reorganization (this doesn't mean that they go out of business), they would be much stronger companies than they are now. This is what Romney is saying.

Also, a big help to both companies was a timely tsunami in Japan that severely affected their ability to ship thousands of cars. Most of those lost sales went to GM and Chrysler. The tsunami effect alone, made Obama look good.

After the last election when the republicans won by a landslide, telling voters just what they wanted to hear and then went about their business trying to destroy everything because they told everyone what they were going to do and are now doing it. What republicans voters fail to realize is, when republicans say they will create a smaller government, that really means they will end programs that the rich don't need but the poor and middle class do. The rich don't need welfare,unemployment insurance, social security, unions, public education and many, many more. What government programs do the rich use that republicans want to cut, the correct answer is none. To pay for the massive tax cuts that republicans want to give to the rich that will add trillions to the debt, they need to free-up a whole lot of money and what's the easiest way to do that? kill programs they don't need. Republicans are telling the truth about what they are going to do, they just don't mention that they will be doing it to us. Look at the last election and what republicans are doing now, do anybody believe voting more of them into office will solve all the problems???

I am a 3rd-generation, Union-represented Detroit auto worker. I watched the disintegration of this industry from the inside out, and I can tell you that it did not happen because of the guy on the shop floor gunning the bolts into a chassis. It happened from the front office because of people like Mitt Romney and his Dad.

President Obama did not lay off all of the non-Union management. Chrysler, Ford and GM cast off their older, higher-compensated work force to shed themselves of cost. My ex-boss, Les, was one of them. I watched them give him a box and walk him out. Then I watched them walk out the guy that walked Les out. Wake up: Unions do not make hiring and firing decisions. They don't dictate to companies who gets hired or fired.

Like John McCain, Romney would have advocated a catastrophic bankruptcy of the Big 3. Obama stood in the way to ensure that the bankruptcy was a controlled one that DID NOT totally tear up my Union contract, and bounce me out the door as happened to so many NBU's. Obama ensured the bankruptcy would be a humanely administered instead of allowing the republican sharks to rip us to pieces and exploit the catastrophe to destroy their long time sworn enemy: the UAW.

That historic moment of opportunity was lost to the GOP, and they are furious that President Obama protected working families. The GOP wanted our blood. They failed.

I HAVE A JOB AND A HOUSE, AND A LIVING, AND I PAY TAXES TODAY THANKS TO PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!

Nothing that you right-wing ding dongs say can change that fact.

Barack Obama was there for me when I needed him. This Detroit auto worker will be there for him in November, .and I'll donate part of my Union-negotiated salary to get him there. Obama: The 2nd Democrat to save Chrysler.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!

As Teddy Roosevelt said in so many words that without labor, there can be no capital.

Unless labor has the capital to invest in plant and machinery, the reverse is also true, "without capital to build the plants and buy the machinery there is no labor, or, specifically, no jobs."

Socialcapitalist, take a hike! This nation is what it is because of the blood, sweat, and tears of the common man, not the neauveau rich investment capitalist. Greedy capitalists have always been at the root of everything bad in America. Teddy Roosevelt was one wealthy American who understood the debt he owed back to the country that had blessed hes family so much. He, a capitalist and a real Republican, laid hold of the monopolists and busted them up. Round one of the capitalists comeupance. Dwight Eisenhower, another real republican, executed round two of the monopoly busting and capital greed. he also warned us against the power wielded by those military-industrial complex capitalists. Mitt Romney has never in his life worked an honest day for an honest wage. His father may have, but he hasn't. He has no comprehension of what working for a living entails. The only thing about him that works is his money, usually by taking over and killing vulnerable businesses.

Socialcapitalist, that's true, without investment there are no jobs, but it's also just as true that there is no capital increase without workers. It's a symbiotic relationship between the investor, the worker and the customer. When the balance tilts more toward any one of those groups, things get out of kilter and the economy as a whole suffers. For the past 30 years, the balance has tilted badly toward the investor at great cost to the worker. Now the economy is in ruins because of this.

One thing the investor class seems to always forget is that there are more workers who are customers than investors. (in most industries at least) When you reduce the disposable income of the worker, you also are gutting your customer base at the same time. That's bad long term planning and many businesses are guilty of it. Sacrificing long term stability for the sake of short term mega-profit. Most of them can't see beyond this quarters stock price.

"let the big three die because they are unionized"

You did get that part right...the car companies "failed because they were unionized". The politicized greedy unions were the primary cause of Detroit's demise....

without adding specifics

This is the trouble with all the Republicans running to replace Obama. They throw out vague soundbites, but no specifics, of what Obama didn't do that would have speeded up the recovery, or what they themselves would do differently.

Oh, excuse me, Romney would have let the car makers declare bankruptcy - and stiff their suppliers, which is what bankruptcy is.

Mitt, this is not about growing up in Michigan.........naa, rather, your perception on how the country should have dealt with the imminent collapse of the auto industry that would have cost jobs and probably sent American auto industry into a lasting doldrums. What do you think would have happened to these people you're now seeking their votes most of whom lived/live paycheck to paycheck?

You got it wrong, Mr. Your inability to differentiate between running a country and a bussiness that's always profit driven is your greatest waterloo. You're out of touch with reality, compassion and every necessary components that will make for a president in this trying period. President Obama got it.

Bob,

German companies are fully unionized and yet Germany has the best economy in Europe and in the top 5 in the world.

Since unions are so bad how it that possible?

Who knew three years ago that GM would make a comeback and be the number one auto maker in the world?

So the US tax payers give a private giant car company $40 billion, then give the evil big corporate auto giant another $14 billion in future tax cuts, gets to bankrupt bankruptcy laws by crapping on stock holders / shedding $30 billion in debt total .... propped up their Chinese operations where they exported American jobs as the libs say ..... combined with a tsunami that devastated their Japanese competition ....

SURPRISE ...... how did they ever do that with such a stacked deck in their favor?

Obama must be genius!

(Some people are so easily fooled.)

Unions made the middle class and are trying their best to preserve the middle class in this tough economy. I remember my grandfather telling me of the struggles during the great depression, and how during that crisis there were many who felt the time for unions had passed. Strong unions make a strong middle class. Anyone else in the middle class not in a union is just riding on their coat tails.

@ Dennis. People are actually buying German cars and it looks like some of their automakers are trying to revisit unions. Particularly interesting is the use of temporary contract workers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-13/bmw-profit-drive-ends-in-court-as-union-seeks-cap-on-temps-cars.html

@ Wayne my father was a long time GM union employee. Even he conceded toward the end of his career that unions need changes. They had gotten to the point of protecting the slackers at the expense of good employees and were not willing to bargain to the good of all.

Guys, the auto bailout success is really a thorn in flesh for these RWNJs. Relentlessly, they try spinning this but to no avail simply because the numbers are on President Obama side and the PEOPLE know this.

Just like Mitt wrestle Willard, RWNJs wrestle on.........we've got the numbers.

Bob-18 "Unions aren't saving the middle class - the unions are killing the middle class."

Bob you have'nt a clue of what your talking about!

Just repeating what you hear (and repeatingly hear) in the conservative media Dose not make it true!

I can try to explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Yeah Wal mart has done so much for the middle class Bob, $10.80 an hour median income in Texas is bulding a middle class right Bob. Get serious, Unionized workers don't use the ER like a clinic and they have a tadd bit of disposable income to spend in their neighborhood to support the small businessman, and they don't depend solely on SS, medicare and medicaid when they retire. UNIONS ROCK!

white collora

It was a structured bankruptcy. which is a better solution for company's (not just the auto). if it was not filed as a such, the courts could of dissolve the company's out right. dissolving the auto industry could have repercussions for decades. an example, any of the feeder company's that may have been owed money, could in turn go bankrupt and so on and so on...

but I guess thats ok for the white collar workers out there. But I would disagree, since I am in the white collar sector (manufacturing). no blue collar workers mean no white collar job for me.

strange how that works.

yet another conservative media myth. bob you can't think for your self.

Right-to-Work states have both a lower average wage and fewer benefits.

@ Dennis so what is your take on the link I posted in response to you post on Germany?

Don't get me wrong I do believe certain in certain lines of work unions are beneficial (police, firefighters, etc...). However my problem is with the union mentality that rewards all workers with the same pay increases, protection from firing, etc... that doesn't work well in a competitive business world. I worked for a company that had both union and non-union employees (not in the same job function). I witnessed on a regular basis the non-productiveness of the union employees on a daily basis. At least non-union employees were weeded out with a review process and compensation was actually based on their contribution.

ksw,

Do I believe that unions at times take advantage of their collective power – yes!

Do I believe that companies at times take advantage of their employees – yes!

Do I believe that either is evil with intension of doing harm to the other – no!

If they work together both become winners and if they don’t business/sales will be lost to the competition.

It appears that business and unions at times have become like our political leaders playing the “us vs. them” destructive game - where no one wins.

You mean like your federal representatives who make $176,000 in salary, cadilac benefits like the best healthcare insurance available and a full pension after 5 years of service and you get every third week off with pay. Do you know any other public employees who have a deal like that, no you don't they all have to put their 30+ years of service in to get their full retirement benefits, often at much lower pay scales than the private sector pays. The right to work for less and less and less has not helped anybody but the owners and has lowered wages arcoss the board in every state that passed it.

TO: bob-1805084 who wrote:

"Unions aren't saving the middle class - the unions are killing the middle class."

Another Republican "talking point".

The fact is, if it weren't for Employee Unions there might not even be any Middle Class.

Because of Employee Unions employers can NOT pay us less than the "minimum wage", and Employee Unions have made sure that American Workers have health care coverage, and more than just Social Security to retire on.

Republicans have been trying for decades to lower the wages of American Workers, avoid providing health care for American Workers, and try to steal away Retirement Savings from American Workers.

Republicans = Tax Cuts for the Rich, and Pay Cuts for American Workers!

Obama / Biden 2012

You mean like your federal representatives who make $176,000 in salary, cadilac benefits

No. Nice deflection though.

I'm talking about the federal employees whose average salary is $117,000.00 a year ... the cook making almost $70,000 .... the employees that are practically immune to job pressure / loss ... the ones that have a 300 in a 2.1 million chance of being laid off.

often at much lower pay scales than the private sector pays.

Bullshlt.

The union average total compensation is 15% over for degreed and 30% for non.

Yo Bob - Japanese and Korean automakers are union as well as the Germans, Brits and French. Try again.

While I might agree that the unions do bear some blame for our high cost of manufacturing I can't say they are usless...there is a place for unions. I don't see them to be any worse than the wealthy and big corps who are sticking it to the American middle class.

Sorry Booby I will be ignoring both of your active accounts now .

Bob Unions represent 7% of private sector employees what are you scared of ? Yes there have been union abuses but they don't come close to abuses like Enron & the recent real estate bubble I have worked in building trades unions with many hard working people who did dangrous ,dirty,hard work we got paid when we worked sent home when the job was done & you had to hope you found more work. Many of the men I worked with were veterens and were working hard to build a better life for their families,these men are good Americans, & I'm sick of hearing people like you badmouth them. Most non-union workers do better because unions exist. The main reason republicans don't like unions is they want no organized voice speaking for working folks. Already some republican governors are trying to roll back child labor laws that unions fought for on the whole unions have had a positive effect & if we lose them we will go right back to the 1890s when workers had no rights at all

American girl,

Time for you to hit the street corner, isn't it?

Grow up or sober up Alan290.

Yes Bob the unionized workers make more that's the point that is why they rock, maybe I was not clear in the way I stated it but my point was that public employees often have lower pay scales than people in the private sector doing the same work. But I will agree unionized workers make at least 15% more than non union, that's a good thing.

Re: The Chevy Volt and all new clean energy technologies.

..."I have not failed 700 times. I have not failed once. I have
succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have
eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will
work."

The above is a quote by Thomas Edison regarding the incandescent light bulb. Under your twisted logic Bob in VA, we would all still use gas lamps for the illumination of the night.

Edison didn't fail on the tax payers dime. The governments record on running business entities is poor.

Amtrak, Post Office etc. All big money losers.

RD ... the Postal Service was PRIVATIZED and taken OFF the taxpayer's dime in the 1970's. But they were told that unlike ANY other business in America they must go through Congress to ask for a rate hike. They also were REQUIRED to pay into a Federal Retirement Account more than 30 YEARS in advance ... IN FULL so that they were funding the retirements of people who hadn't even started working AT ALL yet. When the Post Office goes before Congress asking for money, they are asking for money from THAT retirement account which was FULLY FUNDED BY THE US POSTAL SERVICE - NOT BY TAXPAYERS. They are not asking for a "loan" ... they are asking for their OWN money to be released to them. How would YOU like it if you deposited your money in the bank and then the bank said that ONCE a YEAR you may ask for some of YOUR money to be given to you? No checks, no ATM/Debit card ... you are only allowed to ask for a lump sum ONCE A YEAR and there is no guarantee that the answer will be "yes". In this scenario, the bank has a vested interest in telling you NO because the account they hold your money in is the same account they use for their own day to day operations.

Cat,

You're right, of course but you'll never break through to these ideologs. The Post Office earns a surplus every year and has about $45B in their balance sheet that is committed, thanks to a stupid law passed by the lame duck Republican Congress in 2007 and signed by Bush, to pay the retirement benefits of employees that have not yet been born. They also cannot raise postage rates without Congressional approval, even though their current rates are lower than those of their private sector competition. Amazingly enough, Republicans tell us the government should be run like a business and then go out of their way to prevent it. Of course, the real motivation is to help out their private sector donors and to defund the Democratic Party by kiling unions.

Bob,

You may think you're a car expert because you know how to drive. I know a better authority - Bob Lutz the GM Vice Chairman and a highly respected car guy. In his opinion, the Volt is a landmark vehicle that will revolutionize the industry. The GM strategy is to move this concept across all passenger vehicles in their portfolio. Like with all new technology, high volume manufacturing has to be reached in order to fully reduce the cost. Sometimes, a company will do that by selling product at a loss to attract customers. Eventually, the production costs come down and the company can then recover their investment and turn a profit. The concept is known as Forward Pricing, and it is very popular in the electronics industry. When a company lacks the financial resources to absorb the loss, it may make sense for the government to provide the patient capital needed, if the ultimate result is in the national interest. I submit that retaining a manufacturing base that employs millions of Americans and that supports a network of other businesses meets that criteria. Of course, we should not expect conservatives, most of whom seem to have only a passing acquaintance with legitimate business concepts to understand these sophisticated ideas. After all, you apparently think that union workers designed the poor quality gas guzzlers that we didn't want to buy and are therefore responsible for the collapse of Detroit. The fact is that engineers designed those cars, under rules imposed on them by management. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and you can't build a good car with a crappy design. Notice how quickly GM and Chrysler started producing competitive cars with the same union workers, once management gave the engineers the authority to do what they know how to do.

Thanks Cal but I think you are singing to the deaf.
Bob can only hear the dog whistle of Fox News and Rush

Bob, you can blame the democrats for bailing out the auto industry all you want to ,the American tax payer has been bailing out the capitalist for over a hundred fifty years years,the railroads,oil companies,steel.coal mines all have been living and operating on the tax payer since they begin.

If you are still working on a job I will tell you how you can get back at those dirty unions,you know that eight hour work day that you have,that paid vacation that you get,that company paid insurance,that sick leave, that lunch break,that over time pay,that holiday pay etc, tell the company that you do not want those things because union members fought for and died for you to have those rights.

Seems that most people have forgotten the bail out of chrysler and lockheed that happen in the early seventies and eighties,oh I forgot,that was not Obama.

He could always caucus in British Columbia to see if he can grab another meaningless beauty contest. Oops, we aren't talking about Ms. Palin.

LOL..JoAnne...thank u for making me laugh....you DO realize that republicans, by and large, are really weak when it comes to geography? Have a great day!!!

I guess Mitt flip flops on that, too, Amy. Although he was quite happy for the market to "let Detroit go bankrupt" and also happy for the housing market to hit bottom so the foreclosures could proceed and investors snap up those houses at rock bottom prices.

Even if all of Mitt's Republican opponents were against the auto industry bailout, I would think the folks in Michigan might feel a little more betrayed by Mitt's callousness, since he has roots there.

Romney in the "new" tv ad above: "I grew up in Michigan; it was exciting to be here," Romney says in the ad, in which he appears driving a Chrysler 300. "Michigan's been my home; this is personal."

Romney in the 2008 NY Times article linked to above: "For me, Michigan is personal," Romney said at a brief airport appearance in Traverse City. "It's personal because this is where I was born and raised".

Hey, who says Romney's a flip-flopper? :)

Oh, wait.....from that same 2008 NY Times story: "Romney proposed increased government spending for research on advanced fuels and vehicles, aid to automakers to deal with the costs of health care and pensions for retirees, and tax cuts for most taxpayers to help them buy new cars."

Increased government spending? Why, I'm shocked, I tell you. And no way was he advocating aid to automakers to help out with health care and pensions for union workers.....was he???

Imagine America without Obama, more jobs, more prosperity and smaller government. The powerful

unions forced the two of the big three to file for bankruptcy, The Unions need to balance the needs

for wages and benefits, with the health of the company. If the Unions job is to protect workers

from a corrupt company and get a fair wage, they have become a destructive force against

business, because they have become more corrupt than any company their supposed to protect

their workers from.

TO: RD-889126 who wrote:

"Imagine America without Obama, more jobs, more prosperity and smaller government. The powerful

unions forced the two of the big three to file for bankruptcy..."

More Republican "talking points".

The fact is, if it weren't for Employee Unions there might not even be any Middle Class.

Because of Employee Unions employers can NOT pay us less than the "minimum wage", and Employee Unions have made sure that American Workers have health care coverage, and more than just Social Security to retire on.

Republicans have been trying for decades to lower the wages of American Workers, avoid providing health care for American Workers, and try to steal away Retirement Savings from American Workers.

Republicans = Tax Cuts for the Rich, and Pay Cuts for American Workers!

Obama / Biden 2012

RD'

See how that plays in Detroit--the unions were one of the essential elements in making the bail out viable. GM and Chrysler have been burdened with extremely poor management for decades. Major decisions regarding plant modernization, product design and quality, and overall business strategy are not made by labor unions, they are made by upper management. And in the case of the Big Three horrible management did far more to bankrupt the companies than their labor agreements ever could. The only reason Ford didn't also file for bankruptcy and or bail out assistance is the Ford family and its various Trusts still own 46% of the company stock and they are far too wealthy to qualify, even though the company itself was doing poorly. I will never understand why so many people blame the unions for auto companies problems when it is widely known and acknowledged by even the most conservative observers that management made disasterous decisions over several decades. They also created an enormous and very expensive bueacracy that refused to adapt to the many rapid changes occurring in the industry. How else could a foreign company like Toyota eventually out sell GM and the others. Germany and Japan were on their knees after WWII yet within two short decades they were taking over the auto business in the US and the world with better cars! Only very bad management could let that happen.

Imagine America without Obama

He who fails to heed the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them......breadlines, 25% unemployment, civil unrest, 3rd world economy, theocracy, plutocracy.

"Romney accused Obama of having done "all these things the liberals had wanted to do for years" without adding specifics." Typical. When you have nothing of substance to offer just baselessly criticize Obama for being a liberal or a socialist or a Muslim or whatever. RD seems to have the mindless criticism thing down pat.

There was a lot of liberal bashing when things weren't going so well in 1930s Germany.....just sayin'.

What? Who are you talking about? Take a breath and slow down. It is funny to read through all the post and it is amazing that most people have pick up the Obama chant of flip flop. You are all Obama puppets. Romney has released a paper on why he said let the car companies go bankrupt. Most if not all the financial experts had and do still have the same issue with the government bailing out the auto industry. I currently work in a government job and the government is laying me off because of the debt. Too bad I was not working for a car company. The bailout has hurt more people than the media will let you know. A company that does not have the funds to go on has recourse to follow and that is bankruptcy. They should not have access to tax payers' pockets. Shame on anyone that thinks it is ways right thing to do.

know - experts also say that if we did not stop the bus from going over the depression cliff the consequences would be far worse.

knowndoyen -

Because you have never worked in the auto industry, you are totally CLUELESS to how the bailout helped people. I live in a small town where the majority of the industry supplies parts to the auto industry and unlike you, I don't have to have the media or Wall Street or politicians tell me how the bailout affected my family. For us, it was a life saver. My husband owns a beverage and snack vending machine business and sales to the auto supply manufacturers. When the auto industry laid off, he almost lost his business because he had no one to sell to. Thanks to the bailout, employees were call back to work and have been working steadily ever since and my husband's business is doing great.

So shame on you knowndoyen for spreading your fear and baseless bs. I don't think the Republican candidates and a lot of U.S. citizens have a true understanding of how many different types of businesses that the auto industry trickles down to and how devastating it would have been letting the auto industry go bankrupt - we probably would have never saw any money owned to us. I thank President Obama every day and he will have my family's vote.

ohmyohmy09,

No I did not work in the auto industry yes you could say I'm CLUELESS. While you where home getting bailouts I was working in a place that had a lot more sand and a lot less trees. You might say in a small way supporting your way of life. But the way of life that I was support was one where people have a choice of what the want to do with there lives. Your so call bailout is only a temporary fix. It will cost a lot more than you think. Just look at what will happen in 2013 to all the men and women who gave their all just to be handed a pink slip. The army 100,000 the Navy and Air Force 20,000 to 40,000 more people out of work. Contracts cancelled, progress stoped on weapons systems. I guess you would say trillions in setbacks. Shipyards closed, small business shut down because they supplied the people and programs. And yes you can say I might be CLUELESS. But this I know I will be glad I had a car to drive just to bad I wont have a Job to drive to because I've already been given my pink slip. Oh yea I don't expect the government to give me a hand out. I will move on and work hard. But remember this Obama has done nothing for us that have served and still serve in the Military. Nothing. no bailout no payraises. But I was glad to hear that your husband who owns a beverage and snack vending machine business and sales auto supplies can still do it and support his family to bad it will come with a greater price then you will ever know. The tax payers that paid for you to still have work must all stand up and thank Obama because he cared so much for the auto industry that he gave billions to save it but would not give a big thank you to the Men and Women that fight each day to give the freedom you enjoy. Yes I'm so CLUELESS but the fact is I'm still right.

Blame the Republicans for your job loss stupid. You deserve being laid off. A little bit of humility might do you good. Sometime facing hard times can be a learning experience. Good luck!

Mitt Romney is a "jobs cremator", an American Business Liquidator, and made his millions by shipping American Jobs Overseas.

Obama / Biden 2012

Regan had Lee Iacocca in his corner and that made it a sure bet that "the entire loan" would be paid back.

Not like President Obama's "Give-A-Away" loan funding!

It's that plain and simple......The U.S. Taxpayer owns 23% of GM without any chance of a return on their investment......How Many Investments Do You Have Like That?

But then again, what else could a community organizer do.............other than "Give-A-Away" money that not his!!!

the return will be there,Ditto Head..Hey,what ever happen to the Peace Dividend Reagan promised us? Was it lost to,lets see,Oh,the S&L bailout....

Clean house,

Buy GM, tell your neighbors to buy GM, and you will have a darn good chance of getting all of that back and then some! Not only that, but GM is making damn good cars that make the uber ugly foreign cars look like crap. ( I truly do not understand how any American can buy a German piece of over priced status symbol junk and still show himself on the streets of America!)

toloto, you are right on it!

Obama / Biden 2012

Obama/Biden 2012!

dm8528--the trouble is, the money is there. It's just that the Republiplutocrats have is squirrled away and are waiting until they can use it without paying taxes. You have been voting against your own self-interest for so long, led down the path by the right wingers, you can't find your way back to sanity. This country has the lowest tax collections relative to GDP in over 50 years and ranks near the bottom in relation to the rest of the industrialized nations. We can't use it until we collect it. We don't need to do without but we do have to get smarter.

Dm,

And just how much money is in the US bank account and how much in total can the monetary standard of the world afford? Isn't it odd that no one every discusses what the world's largest economy can afford to do? If another war starts tomorrow is the US going to say "go away we can't afford that?" If another Katrina size storm hits us are we going to say, "to hell with that let the whole town go down"? I don't think so.

dm - neither the extreme right or the extreme left has it right...the answer is the right balance. You have to do a little of everything.

I agree, It seems that the extreme rights priorities are ass backward. The quick way to reduce the deficit is full employment. It would start to plug the wholes in assistance programs, and people can actually start paying back into the system. Use half to pay debt and use half to invest in our future so we as a nation can stay on the cutting edge. I always say everything in moderation, so when needed you will be ready for that next emergency.

So what your saying is if the government didn't step in we would be worse off. Well the government did step in and so where are we now? Better off. All the government did was shift the burden. If we let the free market work it will right its self. But if you mess with it all you are doing is shifting and prolonging what should have happened in the first place. 2013 the government is cutting trillions but at what cost? We have a military for protection for our way of life. But that's no concern of anyone. Because of all the funds the government gave in bailouts and with no return (lost funds) the military will be hit to pay the price. People who are willing to give their all will be handed pink slips. You think the trickle down from this will have a far reaching effect. Shipyards, bases closed all the support and contracts lost, years of funds for future planning flushed down the drain. But it's all good? Shift the burden. No matter how you slice the pie we will never know if not bailing out the auto industry would have been a better choice. But you cannot say that the lateral damage has gone away it just been shifted to a lot more people and places.

....Your comments,well lets just say,very well not thought out..Very simplistic,myopic..Sorry!

Ron,

Chrysler has already paid the money back and GM is working on it and will eventually also pay the money back WITH INTEREST. As to the worker/tax payers in those other companies: What the hell is wrong with helping out a neighbor in need? E pluribus Unium. Ever consider what would have happened to the supply chain for parts and materials without Chrysler and GM around, they are volume buyers, many suppliers would have gone under effecting ALL assembly plants in the nation. See my comments above in #8,3 about the horrible management at GM, Ford and Chrysler---it taKes more than a bad Union Contract to destroy a major industry, while inept management can kill even the most golden of gooses, and very quickly!

James, nothing is wrong with helping a neighbor if you choose to do so with your money. I have a real big problem with helping a neighbor if somebody else chooses to do it with my money. Now I realize that once you pay taxes, it is no longer your money, but we elect officials to make decisions with the money that they confiscate. If we don't like the decision, think it is wrong, or improper, maybe illegal, we certainly have the right to voice that disapproval and question the motive. Oh, and vote.

James, to answer your question on the parts. Do you think that if Chrysler and GM went out of business that people would stop buying cars? What happened when Hudson went under, Studebaker, Crosley, Packard? Did Americans stop buying cars and quit making parts. Nope, other companies took their place and hired workers. The people that would loose their jobs with Chrysler and GM would get hired by the companies that pick up the slack. They would just be former union workers and that's the problem. That's also the reason it was a union bailout. This really didn't fool anybody. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck. It's a duck. Taxpayer money was used to bail out the union

Ron, Funny I have felt that way about the wars we have been engaged in for the last 50 years and I have voiced by opposition to them. That and $.50 will get me a ride on the bus! I hope you can come to understand that the Auto industry bail out was not a Union bailout, its was, to a much higher degree, a management bailout---in fact the top management at both companies was the first to go! You wouldn't claim that the banking industry bail out was a "bank teller bail out" would you? Of course not, yet its just about the same thing!

No Ron, people would not stop buying cars except for the millions of people who would be unemployed when the car companies went under! They would stop buying cars.

In 1919 Henry Ford was making Model T's like crazy but he had a labor problem--not enough workers. The daily wage at the time was $2.50. Ford annouced that hence forth Ford was paying its workers $5.00 a day---double!. You know what Henry said when ask why he increased wages so much--he said " Well, I need workers and now they can afford one of my cars"!

The management got fired, and the investors (owners) took it in the shorts, but I'm not shedding any tears for them. The Union lost nothing, and gained partial ownership. Along with keeping their jobs and benefits. Now we can argue all day about who gained the most but I asked you a question in the previous post. Do you think Americans would stop buying cars if Chrysler and GM went under? Do you think Americans would stop making cars if they went under? If the answer is no to either one, it was a union bailout.

It somehow makes sense to blame the workers, who don't make major financial decisions for the company, but give the managers and investors who do, a pass? I don't get that. UAW workers do not decide what GM will do tommorrow, next week, or next year, management does that, and for nearly five decades prior to the bailout, management was doing a HORRIBLE job and everyone knows it, their products speak for themselves. Does a line worker decide to put a fin on a car, decide to go with cheap parts to save a dime, or forgo tool upgrades, or build another plant when they don't need one?? Of Course not, those are multi million dollar decisions. And only those geniuses in upper management are allowed to screw up at that level!

I am ashamed that I share the same name as someone else on this board that simplifies problems into absurd and meaningless drivel..............Oh well there is that Ignore button

Ron - taxpayers money was used to create jobs in the Great Depression and it worked then. FDR stimulated the economy and took it from 25% down to 9.6% by 1941 ..... that is the history we want to repeat. In fact economist now believe that if stimuls spending was initiated in 1929 instead of 1933 the depression might have just been a big recession and might not have lasted as long as it did.

Ron,

If an Army loses a battle, would you blame the Privates, or the Generals?? This is how pervasive right wing nonsensical rhetoric has become, they actually would have you believe that its all the Privates fault! I know you are way smarter than that!

Well based on the responses it appears we are all in agreement. This was not an industry bailout as we were told. It was a union bailout of all the poor victimized workers that didn't make any management decisions and were about to lose their jobs as a result of poor management. We sure couldn't have that, now could we? They might have to take non-union jobs with other well run Auto companies. And they might have to move to another state. Of course all of the other workers in the country that lost jobs do to poor management or lost their homes because of lending practices that should have never been allowed, can go right straight to hell as long as the UAW is taken care of, right? You sorry baztards make me sick. Selfish jerks is too good of a term.

Not very forgiving at all is my guess--Michigan has been kicked in the teeth enough, they don't have to take any crap from a spoiled little rich boy even if he is the Son of Romney!

Boris, if you took a poll of all Michigan residents, I'm sure it would show a very very low approval rating for Mittens. With the negative ads already starting, he may do fair with the repub base. Repubs are fighting amongst themselves between Rick, who they apparently like at the moment, and Mitt who they think will win against Obama. I'd hate to be a repub and have to decide, between the field of idiots that they have now, versus, voting for someone just because they think he'll not lose against Obama. For them, it's not about principal or experience or even reality. It's about who has a shot, in the fall.