I'm undecided, I'll either vote for Obama or Santorum, because I refuse to vote for one Big Government Liberal Elite over another Big Government Liberal Elite for no other reason than the color of their skin...I just hope enough Conservatives make it to the polls and elect enough Conservative Senators and Representatives to make both potential POTUSes irrelevant

Skeet Skeet!

Occupy will be around alot longer than little Ricky's 15 minutes.

Elliot. You are right. Neo-Cons call them all Anarchists or Socialists or Fascists because it's easier to stand, point a finger at someone, and call them names then it is to listen, think critically about what they say, and to try and understand their point of view. Thanks for reinforcing my belief with your comments.

Well ''get a job" may be appropriate as OWS has run out of steam and is just about kaput!

I am far from a Neo-con, I wouldn't consider myself a centrist democrat in a million years. It's about time you kids get your labels straight. I thought you "progressives" were the labeling experts.

Galt-2012

Since the Free Trade Agreements were ratified by a Democratic President and a Republican Congress & Senate 14 years ago, this nation has been losing jobs at an unbelievable rate, and it is NOT because of taxes. By the time corporations get through jumping through tax loopholes and write offs they don't pay squat in Taxes. The corporations move overseas because of the cheap slave labor, and the freedom to pollute as they see fit. For years Apple had kept the location of it's I-Phone and I-Pad factory a secret. The factory is in Shenzhen, China where the slaves work in deplorable conditions for 70 cents an hour, and this is just one example of thousands of U.S. factories that have moved out of the country since the Free Trade Agreements. Polaris just announced it is moving to mexico. Why? Because of $1.25 an hour labor. These so called Conservative supporters believe that everybody should be paid like this except for them.

Go to China, Mexico, India and breath the air, drink the water, eat the food, and you will be dead in a year, and that is also where your jobs are. What these supporters don't realize is that their job is next to be eliminated. "Go get a Job" will soon be their chant also in China, Mexico, and India because that is where they will have to go for a job.

You tell me what your job is, and I will tell you how you are a drag on the economy and how we can outsource it for next to nothing. Yes, this is how we build a strong and prosperous America. Everybody is overpaid except for you, and then there were none.

I pledge allegiance to the.................... Yeah right. Tell that to Wall Street, the corporations, and the politicians that support this treason, and the destruction of our nation due to overwhelming greed.

The CEO of United Health Care is paid $120 million a year, what? For what? And there is your health care that you can't afford either.

I can go on, and on, and on.

As I remember, the republican party quelled all attempt by the Democrats from passing anything that may create jobs in the US. The party of "NO" struck time and again, some times adding the pet peeves of the far right to the bills to make it unpalatable and wrong for the majority of Americans and having nothing to do with creating jobs. It isn't that I am a Democrat, but they tried but all the republican party was interested in was/is make Obama fail instead of doing what is right for the country!

Seriously, can some Super PAC just run a 60-120 second advertisement that's McConnell just repeating over, and over, and over that the Reps. #1 goal is to make Obama fail. If that is not enough to convince people of what's wrong with this country - how gullible we all are to govt. talking points - so we vote on fear, then I'm moving to Canada.

I find it funny that they're calling them anarchists, when they're constantly railing on about the Second Amendment and Jefferson quotes about "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Who are the anarchists here, because it sure doesn't look like the Occupiers.

joe--obama was the one inviting people to come to white house and have a beer.

Ranman87

They called themselves anarchists, we are wrong for calling them what they call themselves?

Actually the OWS platform, when you find a real live intelligent OWS member, is about 80% copacetic with the Tea Party platform. There have been numerous meetings and debates, radio show discussions between representatives of both movements and they always come out as agreeing on almost everything that needs to be done to help America.

EXCEPT, on how to do it.

When asked on who they support about 55-60% of OWS claims they are Dr. Paul supporters, The Tea Party are about 40-45% Dr Paul supporters, I think this is the strangest thing of all.....

it's just funny Santorum is all the news headlines this week just because he had a slight surge in 'the polls'.

what they don't tell you is that in the state caucasus's that Santorum won, less than 2% of the GOP voters showed up to the vote (and this can be confirmed with the tiniest bit of research). almost every GOP candidate has had a surge in the polls in their day; Cain, Gringrich, etc.

Even those who vote republican must realize Santorum has no chance of winning the nation wide vote for president. So honestly I'm not a left wing nut, but honestly I laugh everytime I see Santorum in the headlines because no matter what it says, I know it won't last long.

Seriously, GOP, there are couple decent candidates with electability left, but Santorum is not one, that fact that he's recieving so much attention right now is laughable at best

I find it ironic that Occupiers will heckle an uber conservative candidate who is unlikely to win, but won't protest or heckle the ACTUAL president presiding over the CURRENT policies that supposedly have them so upset.

I was with you until the part about going to China, drinking the water, breathing the air, and being dead in a year. An awfully large number of Chinese people seem to be doing it without dying!

chartsweb

"People"? As I remember there was a woman involved whose role is lost in his-tory and SHE was not invited to White House.

I'm undecided, I'll either vote for Obama or Santorum, because I refuse to vote for one Big Government Liberal Elite over another Big Government Liberal Elite for no other reason than the color of their skin...I just hope enough Conservatives make it to the polls and elect enough Conservative Senators and Representatives to make both potential POTUSes irrelevant

This is not undecided. This is perfectly decided. You've chosen to set the country back decades by putting more rich conservatives in office to push their agenda of keep 'em stupid and pregnant. You have decided.

I'm curious if you are aware that the people that rely most heavily on public assistance are in the red states populated by conservatives. Did you know that? In fact find a county where most people vote republican and it's probably getting more welfare, food stamps and medicaid than anyone around it.

think on that for a moment

Yea Rick!

In my opinion what destroyed the Republican party was the Religious Right. Their better than everyone else attitude and moral issues have successfully divided the republican party into many facets. We need to start getting involved with the Basic Political Organizational Unit, BPOU. This is where we the people get to decide who will be on our party's ticket. The Evilgilicals did it in 2000 and look where we are now.

Wonder how many of Santorum's supporters were wearing WWJD bracelets? Not that any of them would actually know what Jesus would do, of course.

I think it's funny how the crowd was chanting "Get a job" when that is what the Occupy protest is all about. The 99% who have been crushed by the 1% gimme gimme mentality. Don't they know we would have to cut taxes for the rich for these people to find jobs?

And when was the last time you heard of anarchists organizing to make wall street more accountable? Seems like the anarchists are the ones who start wars with no reason, cut taxes and services to the bone and you can put out your own fires and have legal drugs.

This is a good example of why we're so out of touch..

We stay rapped up in our lives,our cars,our jobs, we are afraid if we stop to help our neighbor we might have to give a little..

Society continues to separate itself from humanity, I've got mine.

"Get a job"... they act like it's as simple as getting a loaf of bread from the store. People like them deserve to be heckled.

I have a series of questions regarding these protestors.

First off, was the delicate genius that threw glitter at Sen Santorum arrested? If not, then why? Once again someone throwing something at a presidential candidate. I can pretty mush guarantee that if I were to throw glitter at the President I would be arrested, and the left would be all over me, but since its being thrown at a conservative, then it's harmless.

Second, why are they protesting him at his speeches? I understand we have a right to peacefully protest, but at the same time this would not be tolerated if it was a Democrat speaking. The greatest form of protest against someones policies is at the voting booth....but to yell and try to drown out someone while they are speaking just doesnt sit well with the free speech that these protestors are coveting.

Finally, why are they protesting Santorum? If I were a liberal who wanted President Obama to win a second term, I would make the Santorum candidacy go as smooth as possible...Romney is the only Republican that can really challenge the President, and a Santorum nomination pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of the Republican party.

Thats it for my morning rants.

If the President is not responsible then he is irrelevant. I am aware of the different levels of our government that can gridlock change but they have always existed. What we are seeing is more of the same.

HOTTICKET-2304234

Santorum Supporters Tell Occupy Protesters at Rally: "Get a Job."

About time someone did. Now it's off to work and about my business I go. Think I'll throw some lollipops at the gimme gimme crowds today.

You see, this is the problem with republicans. Many are very smart people -- it's just that your collective heads are stuck so deep in the sand that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that most unemployed people are lazy and just don't want a job.

I know you aren't going to believe me but most unemployed people desperately WANT a job. Many have sent out literally hundreds of job applications over a period of many months or even years.

I just want to know why Rick Sanatorium thinks these people are unemployed?

To shout Get a job is so cliche

gee Andy....do enlighten us on what "santorum" means...since it isn't in the dictionary...maybe its one of those dem words you folks like to make up

Santorum supporters tell Occupy protesters at rally: 'Get a job'

Let's go to the hospitals and get mad at the people for being in there . . .

I don't no where some of you get the notion that Santorum yelled out get a job" when it was his Idiot supporters.

Oh, and the glitter bomb was thrown at Romney not Santorum. Just as an update. If you want to question....then ask the right question.

Mr.PheaNiques-0000001

I'm undecided, I'll either vote for Obama or Santorum, because I refuse to vote for one Big Government Liberal Elite over another Big Government Liberal Elite for no other reason than the color of their skin...I just hope enough Conservatives make it to the polls and elect enough Conservative Senators and Representatives to make both potential POTUSes irrelevant

A vote for Santorum is a vote to throw away your most personal freedom, the freedom to procreate or not. Also, if you vote for Santorum, you had best be a practicing Catholic who adheres strictly to the church's edicts, or you'll find yourself feeling very uncomfortable about his stance on personal liberty and gay rights.

Santorum's brand of conservatism is out of step with America in 2012. He has talked about restoring job opportunity, but what is his plan? He has no plan.

What is his plan to restore economic health to America? He has no plan.

He talks a nice talk, but look at his record. Santorum was a U.S. Senator...what does he have to show for that, other than a defeat by a conservative who beat him by 18 percentage points?

Bruce - I agree. I wouldn't hire these protesters. I want my workplace to be a warm, inviting place for people who find ways to work together as a finely tuned machine. I don't need trouble makers looking to tell how different we are. Underneath it all, we are all the same. Let's focus on that for a while and move forward as a country, instead of splintered groups who think they will win by destroying each other.

Who really thinks this is a recipe for success? Divide and conquer has NEVER worked in the long term... Civil disobedience has worked at times, especially in the 1960's. I get that, and I agree with what happened as being one of the greatest achievements in the history of our nation. But I look at today's situation and shake my head because this is not the same.

Who will reunite this country??????? How can they achieve it???????

Check out the green hair on that protester. Who would ever hire HER? Yep, these "occupiers" are a real classy and intelligent bunch....of losers.

concerneerdone. I agree with all you say, however,we DO know who has divided this country, and he has got to go before there is no reconciliation possible.

These so called Conservative supporters believe that everybody should be paid like this except for them.

Excellent comment, Michael Anderson, excellent.

Conservatives are backward thinking and close-minded. Their own health and wealth are all that matters to them. They don't realize that we are all in the same sinking boat, on the same polluted planet.

Thomas Jefferson wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal..." Jefferson wasn't just talking about white male colonists. ALL people, everywhere on this planet are entitled to the same rights Americans have grown accustomed to having...and denying to others.

We treat third world laborers like slaves at our own peril.

Oh, and the glitter bomb was thrown at Romney not Santorum. Just as an update. If you want to question....then ask the right question.

verno,

I think it was thrown at both of them. From the article above:

As he greeted the crowd after the event, a young woman threw glitter on Santorum -- a public display of support of the gay rights movement. It is at least the sixth time on the campaign trail Santorum has found himself on the receiving end of a handful of glitter. His GOP presidential rivals have also found themselves covered in the shiny party decoration.

Santorum, is a hypocrite... When was the last time he had a real job? How long has he and his family been living off of the American governments payroll? And what makes him think that the protesters don't have a job?

Politicians are all alike.... Money, Money, Money!!! All they care about are their lobbyist and how much Money they can get...

It;s time for a Constitutional amendment to get Money out of our Government.

And this "Get a Job" sound bite from a moron who brings his deceased baby home for a 'show and tell' for his kids?? As far as I'm concerned, it blatantly shows just how DISCONNECTED these Republican showmen are from their constituents and the American Public at large. Get a Job???

Crawl back into your "Holier than thou" HOLE Santorum and do your Penance.

...........and his name should be "Sanctimonious Santorum"................

I love that republicans think that America has only been in the toilets for the exact amount of time Obama has been president.

and you know, magically upon the election of a republican president - we wont be a crappy nation, in the toilet anymore. We'll be - OVERNIGHT - a magnificent nation, on the verge of amazing things...naturally, because all it takes is an R next to the name of the president.

and ya know, if Obama wins re-election, in a heartbeat...our nation will have fallen off the proverbial cliff, into the abyss...never to be seen from or heard from again, the end. obama will have killed us, just like that.

eh, who doesnt love our bipolar friends the republicans?

The people of Pennsylvania told Santorum he don't have a job and next the American people will say the same thing. He got his a$$ handed to him when put out of office in 2007. The only reason why he has money and any fighting chance now is that he's the only conservative who's still in the running and he doesn't have as much excess baggage like Newt although a few gaffes are showing his true side. Plus corporate campaign financing is keeping him around to get the evangelical vote because they know Mitt will never get the Southern Baptist nor the Catholic voters to back a Mormon.

Jeff-498218

I find it ironic that Occupiers will heckle an uber conservative candidate who is unlikely to win, but won't protest or heckle the ACTUAL president presiding over the CURRENT policies that supposedly have them so upset.

You bring up an excellent point Jeff. All these Occupiers should be throwing "glitter" at the President at every speech and heckling him off stage every chance they get. The President should be giving his campaign speeches from an underground bunker if the OWS people are really true about their beliefs.

Its not shaping up to be a good election.

Obama will have to pick some other failed person for Treasurer after Geitner, because the radical liberals can't manage to find someone who is even moderately conservative on financial issues. The 'moderate conservative' was supposed to be Corzine. And I'll leave it at that....

Romney is Baird. I happen to like what he did at Baird. But because that included cutting jobs to make companies successful, the left won't vote for him. Because he's a mormon, the extreme right won't vote for him.

Santorum is gunning for first place Republican, last place presidential candidate. He represents the ludicrous minority, but in even that group, he favors the sheep. The thinking conservative minority is voting for Ron Paul, and of course, we all know how much the Republican Party will allow Paul to ever succeed.

So, go ahead and root for your favorite cult. Did I say cult? I'm sorry, let me translate that into crazy talk. I mean political party ;)

We might get lucky. If we can entice China to invade us and destroy every last right people have in this country, maybe the'll realize what the First Read radical behavior has bought them.

Where's Waldo...GOOD question, where IS Waldo? FOUND HIM..he's hiding with his head up his......

Waldo, at 1.51. Shame on you. You're SO smart talking about a deceased child. Did you know that it is advisable for young siblings to see a deceased sibling? Depending upon age, they've been told there's going to be a baby. When one doesn't come home, it's creates issues for them.

I*'d say, Waldo, you're a good example of an angry, ugly liberal. When you have nothing to go on, you go to personal attacks. Attacking somebody about a dead child is about as despicable, sleazy and low as you can get.

I found it interesting that when the "supporters" started saying "Get a job!", the article says that Santorum got them to quiet down, and acknowledged the protesters' struggle to find suitable employment. If nothing else, it's refreshing to hear of a politician who appears to be telling his "supporters" to "shut up and listen to the other side for a minute."

dirt is 100% right about the kid. What a horrid comment, Waldo. You give as bad a face to radical liberals as anyone on the radical right being inhumane. Its comments like this why I despise the people who are so extreme they can't imagine for a moment that those they disagree with politically are less than human.

I don't approve of Santorum. I think he is missing the boat and is in fact, guilty of a lot of the same kind of behavior when it comes to women and gays. Doesn't mean I'm going to act like him in return.

“I understand their frustration," Santorum told the crowd. "For three years they haven’t been able to find work, they have a president who doesn’t care about them.”

That's the root cause of the frustration of the '99%' - No opportunities for jobs.

Perhaps they should be protesting where the real problem lies - At the White House.

Where's Waldo

Your comment about 'a moron who brings his deceased baby home for a 'show and tell' for his kids' ' should be collapsed, but then perhaps we should leave it up as an example of how mean spirited Obama's supporters are.

"Angie"

"Where's Waldo...GOOD question, where IS Waldo? FOUND HIM..he's hiding with his head up his......"

Ha! Is that all you have? Didn't even budge the 'Yuk-O-Meter." I am afraid, though, that your Tea Party Skid Marks are showing in your panties there Angie. By the way, when do you people see Elvis' returning and the World coming to an end? Your Tea crowd seems to be edging its way toward the "Fringe" as far as reality is concerned. Seen any UFO's lately during one of your Republican Seances? Or maybe Reagan will be your next reincarnate brought back? Now THAT'S scary!

dirt and Derek, sometimes the truth has to be faced. You might not like it, but this is the reality. This is what the Washington Post had to say about Santorum:

Upon their son's death (or miscarriage, as the fetus was only 20 weeks gestation), Rick and Karen Santorum opted not to bring his body to a funeral home. Instead, they bundled him in a blanket and drove him to Karen's parents' home in Pittsburgh. There, they spent several hours kissing and cuddling Gabriel with his three siblings, ages 6, 4 and 1 1/2. They took photos, sang lullabies in his ear and held a private Mass.

"That's my little guy," Santorum says, pointing to the photo of Gabriel, in which his tiny physique is framed by his father's hand. The senator often speaks of his late son in the present tense.

(Santorum) is ensconced in the most divisive issues in America's culture wars: homosexuality, abortion, the role of religion in public life, and most recently, the Terri Schiavo controversy. He has compared homosexuality to incest and called the preservation of traditional marriage "the ultimate homeland security issue." He is a proponent of applying religious values to political institutions, and hosts a course on Catholic doctrine for members of Congress (open to Republicans only) in his hideaway office.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61804-2005Apr17.html

Santorum misssed his calling. He should have been a priest...but then he couldn't have done what he has done.

Egilman - you are sounding like the republican leadership - out of touch with the members of the party.

Where's Waldo

Your comment about 'a moron who brings his deceased baby home for a 'show and tell' for his kids' ' should be collapsed, but then perhaps we should leave it up as an example of how mean spirited Obama's supporters are.

Sorry Roy. I tell it like it is; and for you? You must have missed Angie's remarks about the position of my head. Do you read and think with blinders on too? Or do you belong to the UFO/Elvis Tea Party folks too?

Many are very smart people -- it's just that your collective heads are stuck so deep in the sand that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that most unemployed people are lazy and just don't want a job.

So the Occupy crowd is job hunting by camping out and evacuating their bowels in public parks? Talk about resume builders. The Occupy crowd has been raised on Participation Awards and now they think they deserve something just for showing up. They've never learned to pick themselves up because mommy, daddy and the nanny state have never let them fall.

There are some unemployed that are eager to gain employment again but there are some that are happy to collect unemployment and other entitlements why they take their sweet time looking for a cushy job. There are those that turn down jobs because they think the offered position is below them and not a prestigious as the job they once held. There are those that would rather turn to the Government and take a handout than rather dig inside themselves and figure out how to get by on their own. Pride has been lost in America, the pride and honor of not being beholden to anyone else and standing free has been replaced with the entitlement attitude and sitting on the couch waiting for the food stamps to arrive.

It might be naughty but the truth hurts like a Liberal spy at a Santorum covenant meeting......sorry....

Where's Waldo

If you think you're helping your hero Obama with such disgusting comments, keep it up. Both sides have their 'fringe' groups, but most are not as repugnant as your comments are.

DIRT:

Waldo, at 1.51. Shame on you. You're SO smart talking about a deceased child. Did you know that it is advisable for young siblings to see a deceased sibling? Depending upon age, they've been told there's going to be a baby. When one doesn't come home, it's creates issues for them.

I*'d say, Waldo, you're a good example of an angry, ugly liberal. When you have nothing to go on, you go to personal attacks. Attacking somebody about a dead child is about as despicable, sleazy and low as you can get.

Well "Dirt" I don't know too many people who bring their deceased child home WITH THEM and make the presentation! It's usually done in the quite confines of the Hospital or Funeral Home where the family as a whole can gather and show their feelings of loss, love and respect of the child. Or am I and a couple of hundred million other people in America missing something?

Who decides which comments can be viewed and which ones are collapsed? I have viewed several collapsed comments early in this thread - they are "highly rated" comments. Why are they collapsed?

I only say "sorry" once Roy. Now who's throwing stones?..................

Since you asked, you ARE missing something. You may despise Santorum, but you need to grow some human skin. What you are calling show and tell is a filthy, despicable depiction put out by the Gingrich campaign and the moment it started getting out that they were responsible, they shut the hell up. Because only a callous, unthinking person would ever depict one of the most loving and important things parents could do with their dying kid as show and tell.

Santorum misses that he acts in the same demeaning manner to others. But that doesn't mean we should act like him.

@fissilemissile

Elliot. You are right. Neo-Cons call them all Anarchists or Socialists or Fascists because...

Actually they call themselves anarchists, surely you've seen the symbol. The big A inside a circle?

...it's easier to stand, point a finger at someone, and call them names then it is to listen, think critically about what they say, and to try and understand their point of view.

Ummm, and you don't think this is EXACTLY what the protesters are doing? When criticizing someone else you should probably make sure YOUR side doesn't do the exact same thing. Kind of makes you sound like a hypocrite.

Can we look at one Santorum incident with a little common sense and a lot less hyperbole?

While I'm sorry for Santorum's loss, I hope his method of mourning does not catch on with the general population. I'm not sure that what Santorum and his wife did with the body of their stillborn child is even legal.

There are good reasons why the bodies of the deceased are handled as they are in America. Don't try to make this into a quasi-religious freedom issue.

Mr. Santorum is plainly not above using his own children to tug at the heartstrings of voters.

What do you think, Derek? Do you know anyone who did what Santorum did with the body of a deceased fetus?

"Get a job"... they act like it's as simple as getting a loaf of bread from the store.

---------------------------

You can go to a store and they will sell you a loaf of bread even if you need a bath, have green hair and tatoos all over your body. So you are correct...getting a job is more demanding than buying a loaf of bread. Hell, they might even give you the loaf of bread just to get you out of the store.

where's waldo your partisanship is overwhelming your senisitivity training

the "get a job" was being chanted by the OWS protestors at his rally. What he said was "If the economy was creating jobs, then we wouldn't have the unemployed at this rally chanting "get a job".

The sad thing is that this crowd and the Occupy folks have many things in common, including some of the same goals (e.g., ending political corruption and collusion of Wall Street with government).

But their political anger and animosity blinds htem to anything else.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Govt. can not pay it's own bill's. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Govt. reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and Internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here, instead Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today on to the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. America deserves better.

Santorum is the only GOP candidate who would make me vote for Obama....he is absolutey crazy...and a religious nut!

However, i do think the picture is fitting....

He looks like a devilish cult leader about to sacrifice a infant of islam!

Wheres waldo? You tell it like you think it is. Void of critical thinking and bitter is the mantra of your party and the problem with that approach is it really only represents a very small portion of the population which you probably can't afford to be part of. It's hard to look at your last 20 years of thought process and say to yourself, this is wrong. You really need to though. In reality its not 99% of us who are represented by this movement more like 70%. 29% of us are in denial that we are some day going to be part of the 1%. Newsflash born poor, 99% chance you will die that way. Guess your in the 99% after all.

fissilemissile - "...because it's easier to stand, point a finger at someone, and call them names then it is to listen, think critically about what they say, and to try and understand their point of view."

And this describes how the left has attacked the Tea Party, Christians, Conservatives, Republicans, Fox News, Talk radio and anything you disagree with. The Occu-punks are nothing but a reflection of what the Demon-crap party has become. As has been shown recently, they use their minions (like Media Matters) to defame and denigrate any that the Democrats or the White House feel may cause them issues.

I used to be a liberal back when liberals were an inclusive group that accepted and promoted the rights of all Americans. Now what I see are ultra left wing people who say you have to do it my way or I'll cram it down your throat. The liberals of my day protected everybodies freedom of speech they didn't use the legal system to gag one citizen because another citizen doesn't want to hear what they say. The most religiously intolerant people in this country are the liberals of today. I can't support any group that trashes the first amendment the way todays liberals do. Todays liberals are mob dictators running over everybody else who doesn't agree with their ultra left wing agenda.

For Roy and everyone else who asks why OWS doesn't protest the white house, you need to read the news.

Get a job???

Santorum has missed the WHOLE POINT that OWS is protesting because there are NO jobs!

This man wants to be President? America's smarter than that.

What a pathetic A hole. this jerk is a career poplitician who is hell bent on controlling women's bodies. He's a moron and will never be anything more than what he is at the moment. A joke.

Get a job? And this man wants to continue the Bush tax cuts and give the rich even more tax breaks. he wants the middle class and poor to pay for the rich. The Bush tax cuts are defended by these buffoons because they say the jerks receiving them are the JOB CREATORS. The Bush tax cuts have never created jobs to this day. Man, these Republicans can lie like a pro.

To ANINDIVIDUAL - Just because the Politicians and Law Enforcement allows you and your deadbeat Occupy Group to trample on the rights of others, doesn't mean everyone will allow you to destroy property that "working people pay for with their taxes. There are larger groups that are getting tired of you sitting on your ass-- and getting support from tax dollars, tax dollars repairing the property damages by your Occupy Group. If Law Enforcement still allows you to destroy public & private properties, our groups will destroy you.

Bart Conner - you're just not looking. There are jobs for those willing to work. Apparently you're one of those who believe they should immediately start at the top and not work yourself to the top.

wlee-950886

I believe I recognize that quote, and the source of that quote may surprise some....

I have campaigned against Mr Santorum in Pa. and he is one very strange man. He claims to be a Catholic but follows virtually none of it's beliefs or teachings. The only common ground being his antiabortion obsession. He is more like an old UHF televangelist than a practicing Catholic and has obviously never read any of the 12 Encyclicals on Social Justice nor the churches positions on such areas as science, global warming, evolution and the age of the planet. Catholicism is a New Testament religion based on forgiveness and Redemption while Mr Santorum seems to think life is an infinite redux of Inherit the Wind with a different denouement.

jkh

"For three years they haven’t been able to find work"... "Get a job"

You understand that people can not find jobs... stating the President did not create jobs... but these same people need to "Get a job"... even though you just said they can not find jobs.

You make a statement that there are NO JOBS because of the President... then tell people to "get a job"... even though you just said there are no jobs.

Does anyone else see a problem with this logic? Seriously, this does not make any sense. How can you tell someone to do something that you JUST SAID they can not do? Are these people retarded?

Bart Conner

Get a job???

Santorum has missed the WHOLE POINT that OWS is protesting because there are NO jobs!

How can you use this as an excuse? Did not the President, all by himself, just create 243,000 new jobs last month? How can you have it both ways?

You are right about one thing, America is smarter than that. We are now seeing through the lies that have been thrust down our throats for the past 30 or so months. Which is why we are going to end the failed experiment that is the Obama Administration come November.

Bart Conner,

What do you mean "there are NO Jobs!"?? There are plenty of "jobs" for people with the marketable "skill sets". There just aren't any 6 figure salary "jobs" available for OWS losers that with degrees in "Gender Studies", "Liberal Arts Studies", Minority studies, "Fine Arts Appreciation", "Performance Art", "pottery", "Language Studies", etc. I'm really sorry they made a poor major choice and wasted all that student loan money they borrowed, but that THEIR problem and RESPONSIBILITY. Uh, Oh, there is that alful word liberal, progressive, Democrats hate.

My company has over 50 opening for people with the right IT training or experience. You can't have an arrest or other police record, must be US citizen, and pass Drug test, so I guess that leaves 99.99% of those OWS protesters out. Darn, there is that "stupid choices and actions have consequences" that effect the rest of your life "rule" again. What do I mean the "world" doesn't revolve around them, and they can't do whatever they want. Heck, there were over 20,000 "jobs" openings in the Atlanta area, that employers said they could fine a single qualified candidate for last month. No Jobs?? Yeah, right. No jobs that will pay what you THINK you should be paid for doing nothing. And NO, you won't come straight out of "school" into that "Corner Office" 6 figure job. Welcome to the REAL world.

htdjpf

What do you mean "there are NO Jobs!"?? There are plenty of "jobs"

Ummm... Santorum was the person who said there are no jobs because President Obama failed to create them. So maybe you should point that out to him.

Which is it? Are there jobs? Or did President Obama fail to create any jobs, and thus there are no jobs?

THEIR problem and RESPONSIBILITY. Uh, Oh, there is that alful word liberal, progressive, Democrats hate

Responsibility? RESPONSIBILITY you say?

You mean like starting a war... spending TRILLIONS... and not paying for it? That kind of "RESPONSIBILITY"?

Do you normally spend like crazy at home, with no way of paying for it, and call yourself "RESPONSIBLE"?

Or, when you say "RESPONSIBLE", do you mean like blaming Obama for all your personal problems instead of taking personal responsibility for yourself? Do you normally consider blaming someone else "RESPONSIBLE" behavior?

Wow, Indie, better slow down there. "Do you normally consider blaming someone else "RESPONSIBLE" behavior?"

Would this be like blaming Bush for everything because you are over your head? Or blaming the Republicans for the first 2 years when you had a veto proof majority that they could not block, yet even your own party voted down your budget 97-0? Or now yelling at the Republicans for not passing a year long income tax rate reduction they were trying to do 2 months ago when he was against it then?

Responsibility for what you say should be a key here. He said he should be a 1 term President if he could not fix the economy in 3 years. He stated he would cut the deficit in half in his first term. He stated that unemployment would not be above 8%. He made numerous promises that the public has bought into, and he has NOT delivered. Even when he chided his own party to decrease the hate speech, they ignore him. (And yes, the GOP should tune it down, but neither will)

Bob,

I was not the one telling people to be "responsible"... I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the GOP yelling "RESPONSIBILITY" when they themselves are NOT RESPONSIBLE.

You should really look up the definition of "hypocrisy"... you will find a picture of the GOP.

The fact that you tried to do the same thing towards my sarcastic response shows that you lack the intellectual capacity to recognize sarcasm when it is presented. Sorry... it was a nice try, but you fail at life.

For the record, I DO NOT blame Bush or and President for my circumstances. I am not a pathetic tool that blames one person in the White House for my entire life... that is what the GOP is currently doing.

Pull you head out agin Waldo...name's AGGIE, not "Angie." "Is that all I got"? Yeah, for people like you. You aren't capable of making a decent comment, much less an intelligent comment when you stoop to using one's dead child as ammo. Reading that, I doubt you could even understand an intelligent comment. Why waste my time.

Suzanne, a right winger for sure, my how things change. It's nice to know someone is paying attention.

Apparently no one on this site reads or listens to the news. The OWS have protested at the White House and they have also attended and shouted their concerns to President Obama. The difference between President Obama and the Republican candidates, when addressing the OWS, is that President Obama talks to them with civil dialog and the Republican candidates, especially Santorum, get into a non-productive, name calling shouting match. Do you remember when the Tea Party would attend the Democrat's town hall meetings? The Tea Partiers would shout so loud, many of the Democrats would have to cancel their meetings or have them telecast.

How do any of you, and Santorum, know if the OWS have jobs? They may be part-time or full-time, low paying jobs, but many do have jobs. Why do you insist on placing labels on the OWS, without finding about their lives?

As for Santorum's unborn child - how he and his family deals with the loss of their child is their business and no one has the right to judge.

When you lose your job you can come to my place where's there's plenty of shoe polish and toilet paper!

Wow Indie, no cogent argument so you resort to the type of name calling normally found in school yards, and the Democratic Party?

You brought up responsibility and the blame game. Sure seemed to me like you were going after Bush with you standard Liberal talking point: "You mean like starting a war... spending TRILLIONS... and not paying for it?". Unless you were referring to Libya which folks like you rarely do.

As you do not know me, and I really have no desire to know you, I can not figure out how you can claim I "fail at life". Being a College Graduate (which I paid for on the GI Bill), completing one career in my chosen field and now dedicating my retirement life to public service does not make me feel like a "failure". However, if I was just hanging around in public parks, ruining these lovely locations for the tax paying citizen that wish to enjoy them and going to cost millions of taxpayer funds to rehab after these bums leave, then maybe I'd feel like a failure. Sound like any one you know?

"You should really look up the definition of "hypocrisy"... you will find a picture of the GOP." Why do I feel it would really just be a picture of you?

HAS Santorum signed the "Norquist Pledge"?? Answer.. PLease..??

As I remember, the republican party quelled all attempt by the Democrats from passing anything that may create jobs in the US.

Actually, you forgot to mention the several pieces of legislation that were sent up to the Senate by the House that still are sitting on Harry Reid's desk and never made it to the floor for a vote.

You also forgot to mention that the reason why the Republicans have been trying to stop the legislation that has come their way. Each piece of legislation gives the Congress and the President Carte Blanche spending abilities. There is no line-item Veto currently and passing the Democrat jobs legislation also passes the increased spending legislation.

Maybe if the Democrats would stop inserting spending legislation the Republican-controlled House would pass the jobs legislation. Maybe if Harry Reid would stop tossing jobs legislation on his desk and take it all to the floor something would get done.

You can't just blame the Republicans in this case. It is so much easier, though, isn't it? :)

Lets all kick Saintorum out of office and them make him work at a McD's for chump-change and see how he likes it.

We have more people than we do jobs, and the bottom line here is, America is headed for another great depression whether we like it or not.

The more babies that are born and fewer jobs, the more dependent they become on government assistance (like Santorum income) only burdens the working poor and working class citizens.

We need to start taxing all the rich, church and religions as well, and all these government officials need to start paying for their own medical expenses and put on a $12 an hour salary and not a penny more.

We have got to do something people, because our government not only has robbed the people of their money and the American dreams, but they also failed us all as a nation.

REVOLUTION 2012

Arieus,

Ron Paul is not the answer. His is nothing more than empty rhetoric. The only true solution is to remove all Republicans and all Democrats from office for the next two decades. That won't be happening anytime soon.

dcpyle - If I may, one thing you left out was that for the first 2 years of his administration, the President had a veto proof, filibuster proof majority in both houses. They could not block a single thing until Kennedy died and the folks in MA sent a REPUBLICAN, of all things, to the Senate, ending the veto/filibuster proof majority, but they still had more than enough votes to ram through their extreme agenda, How else did we get Obama-care? The people sure as heck didn't want it.

The democrats in the Senate decided even they could not vote for the President's first budget, and it was voted down 97-0. Yes, every Republican voted against it, but so did every Democrat. How can this be blamed on the minority party? Could it really be that the Democrats were led by the nose by the White House right over the edge where they lost their veto proof majority in the Senate and lost the House entirely?

dcpyle

Arieus,

Ron Paul is not the answer. His is nothing more than empty rhetoric. The only true solution is to remove all Republicans and all Democrats from office for the next two decades. That won't be happening anytime soon.

And where in my post (#1.107) did I mention Ron Paul?

"Revolution 2012" is one of the slogans some of Ron Paul's followers have used. That's why I made that assumption above. Just saying... :)

I live here to, I was there, the 99%'rs were acting like children that had their lollipop taken away, as usual. But Santorum wasn't much better, he mostly stayed away from religion and foreign policy, and tried to play the great uniter quieting the crowd down. I could see it didn't wash with many in the crowd. There were some Dr Paul signs there but they were kinda hidden.

Yes, Washington is democrat territory but not hard core, but for the first time in a LOOONG time we have a chance to elect a republican governor, the democrat candidate Jay Insley is so far left I don't think he can win.

Yep, Seattle pretty much controls politics around this state, a perfect example of a small portion of a territory controlling all of the territory. If you need a perfect example of why the Electoral College is a good thing, look to Washington State.

I agree, He, Santorum, will not receive the vote here, but Dr Paul does have a better than average chance.

Even Oregon is overwhelmingly blue.

I have lived in Washington state too, and there are republican districts. Santorum will be able to pick these republican delegates.

The greatest gift of all - a load of Santorum. Don't get any on you, though!

I live here to, I was there, the 99%'rs were acting like children that had their lollipop taken away, as usual. But Santorum wasn't much better, he mostly stayed away from religion and foreign policy, and tried to play the great uniter quieting the crowd down. I could see it didn't wash with many in the crowd. There were some Dr Paul signs there but they were kinda hidden.

Yes, Washington is democrat territory but not hard core, but for the first time in a LOOONG time we have a chance to elect a republican governor, the democrat candidate Jay Insley is so far left I don't think he can win.

Yep, Seattle pretty much controls politics around this state, a perfect example of a small portion of a territory controlling all of the territory. If you need a perfect example of why the Electoral College is a good thing, look to Washington State.

I agree, He, Santorum, will not receive the vote here, but Dr Paul does have a better than average chance.

A couple of comments: First, I don't know what you think the electoral college does, but it certainly will not affect the influence of the big liberal bastions in Washington as it should not. If the vast majority of people do not vote for a candidate they will lose, electoral college or no. There is a provision for the delegate for the state to award the votes to someone other than the elected individual but that hasn't happened in ages and is not likely to happen this election cycle.

The fact that you are for Ron Paul tells me everything I need to know. Ron Paul can spin any fantasy he wants about small government and getting down to the nitty gritty but the reality is that he's talking out of his hat. If you listen carefully, he knows just as well as the next guy, government isn't going shrink appreciably, too many people rely upon it and not one of his agendas is more than a pipe dream.

mj,

....I don't know what you think the electoral college does, but it certainly will not affect the influence of the big liberal bastions in Washington as it should not.

First of all, I didn't claim it did, the electoral college is National, created within the constitution and is a part of our election process.

There are three or four counties that essentially dictate political terms statewide, there are 39 counties in Washington, what is good for seattle or olympia, is not generally good for the rest of the state. about 4/5ths of the state is republican, but for 30+ years we have had democrat governors and legislatures, this is why the state is 6 billion in the red and the governor wants to raise taxes.

This is a perfect example of what we would have nationally if we eliminate the Electoral College.

Currently, the governors latest budget was met with less than a resounding reception in the legislature this time, they are getting smart, they want to keep their jobs and this is NOT a good time to be raising taxes. Of course she is a lame duck governor so she doesn't really care one way or the other.

But we the Citizens do, and I think we are going to elect a republican governor for the first time in a LONG time, thank god!

You take a group of people that have been disenfranchised with the way the top heavy system works and say they act like children who have had their lollypops taken away. We are sick of watching the rich come in and take away everyone's lollypops, vacations, retirement and health. Instead of insulting people who aren't as well off as you why don't you try something positive for once. Get involved and help out. Or at least keep your whiny crybaby act to yourself.

The day a republican turns away federal allocation money earmarked for their own district is the day I'll believe these sociopaths practice what they preach. They only want smaller government for EVERYBODY ELSE. They're great coming up with ideas for cutting government spending...as long as it's in a DEMOCRATIC district.

The reality is that conservative states are the biggest pigs at the government trough when it comes to spending- most of these illiterate slobs can't generate enough tax revenue by working to educate their own kids...not that they care

see for yourself.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/fed-tax-sentspent-by-state/

Don't worry egil I'm not whining or crying. You complain that people are protesting something they see as unfair. Well cry me a river. Poor you, so affected by someone else using their free speech rights. Sounds like you misplaced your lollypop!

If you need a perfect example of why the Electoral College is a good thing, look to Washington State.

A little story from Washington State, Egilman:

I once met a man there, a seemingly normal, sober tradesman, who told me that had been to heaven and the streets there were indeed paved with gold.

What do you want to bet he's a conservative? Parts of Washington State are populated by uneducated, provincial and delusional people like that guy. That is where Santorum has a chance.

That's right tell the poor and the middle class it's all their fault we are in this mess. Tell them they are the ones who crash the economy, tell them they are the one's who sold fraudulent pieces of paper on wall street that made the world economy crash, tell them we are giving them too much money and we need to take it back to fix the debt without asking the richest among us to help. Tell the poor, children, sick, elderly and the working class they no longer need food stamps just to eat. Tell the poor we hate you for not having a job.

That will fix the economy and America will not have to worry any more.

But I hope alot of those sick, elderly, young college grads and the poor vote, so we can get to the real issues facing our country.

FACT: If you are rich you can pay a lobbyist to persuade congress men and women to make laws that favor you or your company. legal corruption.

What poor,sick, elderly, college grad and working class can afford a lobbyist?

Is this system fair? HELL NO

Should we question it? HELL YES

We questioned a right to vote why not question the fairness of the tax code.

Warren Buffet said "The rich won and we won it with a nuclear bomb"

The war maybe hopeless by we still must fight.

Your boring state isn't worth the energy to campaign there.

@SkeetSkee

Only reason Oregon is blue is because of the north west I5 corridor from Eugene to Portland. The rest of us are red or independent. Where I live is mostly independent.

Egil "There are three or four counties that essentially dictate political terms statewide, there are 39 counties in Washington, what is good for seattle or olympia, is not generally good for the rest of the state. about 4/5ths of the state is republican, but for 30+ years we have had democrat governors and legislatures, this is why the state is 6 billion in the red and the governor wants to raise taxes."

Egil, I think you arent very good at math so i'll give you hand.

4/5th of washington ISNT republican, otherwise...it would always vote republican. Just because republicans tend to hoard land, and therefore pig up more geography than liberals doesnt mean there's MORE OF THEM.

simply because they hoard land, doesnt mean they deserve more of a voice.

whats good for the rural republican districts, isnt always good for the ubran liberal cities...either ya know.

the reality is, people need to have work to do...and it seems 1/2 this nation is allergic to work - whether it's doing it, creating it, or willing to believe it's even necessary for a nation to survive

there's so much work that NEEDS to be done...but collectively we dont seem to care. we seem to think as a nation, we dont need to do any work...or the work that needs to be done, is the kind of work that only benefits a select few - not the people, the nation, or the land.

we are failing as a nation because we stopped caring about our nation, and only cared about ourselves...how much money WE got and WE should keep...

money isnt real, it's merely a tool...and we've decided we dont need to use that tool to build ourselves up.

we only need that tool to tear ourselves down.

GCooper-4276999 "I guarantee he will not receive Washington's vote."

Nor does he need it, except for the primary. Nobody bothers with Washington in the general election.

By the way - how are you enjoying your State's high unemployment rate?

Byl

We are sick of watching the rich come in and take away everyone's lollypops, vacations, retirement and health

Got anyexamples of this you'd like to share? Or are you just regurgitating the drivel you allow yourself to be spoon-fed?

cullenpest

Your boring state isn't worth the energy to campaign there.

I must take issue with that comment. You have never seen Mt. Rainier at sunrise if you think Washington is a boring state. It is one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Too bad that so many crazies are attracted to all that beauty.

No matter what your party is, if you are a female and vote for Santorum you have to hate yourself.

Romney and Paul both would be better choices for women than that woman hating sack of garbage. And I really don't like Paul, although I believe Romney is no better than Bush, I would take him any day over Santorum.

Kaybe, I'll take Idaho over Washington any day. Coeur D' Alene smokes Seattle, Wenatchee, Tacoma, Tri Cities,Spokane...

wlee...yes Idaho is a beautiful place too. It's all those Aryan brotherhood types and survivalists that make me leery.

Oh goodie you have a mountain the sun rises or sets over I have an ocean where the same thing happens everyday. But I would prefer a country to live in where I am free to speak even if you don't like what I say. I would also like to feel free to thank God for the sunrise and not have to worry some left wing storm trooperAKA the federal district judge in San Antonio is going to tell me I can't because 50 yards down that beach is an atheist who doesn't want to hear it. And I would appreciate being able to vote this year but I can't even vote for mayor because the federal judiciary won't let me. I wonder if any of you liberals would stand still for that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46376442/ns/local_news-portland_or/

Wonderful bunch of people these OWS... lol.

I would also like to feel free to thank God for the sunrise and not have to worry some left wing storm trooperAKA the federal district judge in San Antonio is going to tell me I can't because 50 yards down that beach is an atheist who doesn't want to hear it.

lonereb, you probably would not like to listen to the Muslim prayer call five times a day. Be glad that you live in a country where no one has the right to impose his religion on others.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

That IS your religion...isn't it?

Santorum is for civill rights for all...as long as you are not a woman, a non-Christian, poor/middle class or gay.

Get a job? Yes, there should be something opening up in the lighting department of the Rick Santorum campaign.

He understands there are no jobs... but you need to get a job... even though there are no jobs... you should still need to get a job.

So the Occupy people need to go do the thing that you JUST SAID they can not do.

How does that even make sense?

Santorum..."You realize that there is a group in society that is being left behind. There's a group, about one in three Americans don't graduate from high school, and almost all of them, over three quarters of them, will end up in poverty at some point in time in this country," said Santorum. "We've got to provide an opportunity for them, instead of standing here unemployed yelling at somebody, to go out and get a job and work for a living."
Does he really think high school dropouts are the bulk of those protesting?? Education needs improved to increase real vocational ed options in trades that allow kids to support themselves in adulthood, true. But high school dropouts are not the ones organizing OWS protests. Santorum is a complete idiot.

The high school dropouts are the ones bleeding the welfare system dry so they can keep smoking crack. Take a look at the statistics - this isn't just a stereotype. My mother works in a residential treatment center - 90% of her women never made it through high school and have no intention of getting a GED. They've been either strung out, pregnant or both since about age 13.
The OWS people are the ones that refuse to take the entry-level jobs that the high school dropouts can't hold. I'm serious - my uncle owns a small business that is hiring and he went down to the local Occupy protest and walked through the crowd offering jobs. Not one person took him up on his offer because they felt that punching a cash register and unloading boxes was "beneath them". He even pays more than minimum wage - and Washington's minimum wage is the highest in the nation.

I'm ashamed of my generation and their entitlement attitude. Work comes from the ground up, and if you're expecting to enter the workforce for the first time at $50,000 a year just because you have a fancy piece of paper (but no prior work experience), you've got another think coming. References from your high school soccer coach may work to get you that retail job at the mall in high school or college, but they certainly won't work at the professional level. For that, you need to give them a reference from a previous EMPLOYER. I've known too many people who've figured this out the hard way - which is exactly why I won't. I've had a job on campus since practically day one (how did I get it? I walked in on a "Hiring" sign and asked for it) and I've got another one lined up for this summer. The summer after that is more school so I can finish my double degree, and I've already started making connections for the paid internship I want for the summer of 2014. THAT is how you need to get ahead in this economy, not wasting 5 or 6 years of school just to end up with a degree in women's studies and then sitting in the street whining about your lack of work.

The OWS people are the ones that refuse to take the entry-level jobs that the high school dropouts can't hold. I'm serious - my uncle owns a small business that is hiring and he went down to the local Occupy protest and walked through the crowd offering jobs

Rebecca,

Then why are YOUR candidates saying that President Obama failed to create jobs when... according to your own testimony... there are plenty of jobs that people are not taking?

Which is it? Are there NO jobs because Obama failed to create them? Or are there jobs and you need to spin the message to make Obama the bad guy?

Why is it that every single God Damn Republican says that there are jobs for people to get, AND that there are no jobs because Obama failed.

Make up your GOD DAMN mind... are there, or are there not jobs? Jesus Christ, people.

Kaybe, I agree with you there, but Washington has theirs too.

Lol soooooooo many posts. Where to begin x.x

Washington state may have the highest minimum wage in the country, but we make up for it in the state taxes we pay. Trust me, if you use gasoline, smoke, own property or a business you're paying out the asz for taxes.

As far as high unemployment.. In isolated regions across the state unemployment is down, however with the majority of the state being rural or country areas with small towns most of the state is out of work. The cities are doing "ok" in general terms.. Spokane and Seattle also surrounding areas, but the rest of the state is looking pretty bleak.

I agree with IndieParty. Either Obama failed to create jobs and they don't exist, or people are being lazy and don't want to take them. Which is it? Pick a side people and stick to it. Personally i own my business, and its been slim pickings for a long time now for work. Many of the industries in my region are not active. I know several business owners who can't get financed for more machinery even when their banking papers are in order and can show a profit in the worst economical time in decades. If you want businesses to start hiring again tell the banks to make more capital available to them.

Like it or not capital drives gains. It takes money to make money. The way i see it here is that the fatcat azz bankers who got bailed out paid back their loans and then closed the vaults. No business loans, no home loans, no nothing. We paid to bail them out and they turned their backs to our financial needs while taking and recording record profits and dishing out huge bonuses.

Also, whats wrong with having a degree in something MEANINGFULL AND USEFULL and not wanting to settle on a job for $11.00/hour. I mean really? Its not entitlement its the way the game is played. You want to charge me out the azz for a college degree and then kick me out into the field to make $11/hour? You must be out of your fawking mind. There is now way some of these educated grads can make ends meet with the huge student loan bills left behind. Cost of education vs yield in the workforce has grown too far apart.

I remember when an AA degree would hold some water at a job interview. Rough cost achieved at a community college is probably 25,000. USD. Now? Fawk right. If you don't have a Bachelors or Masters degree you won't even qualify as a receptionist half the time. Some of those degrees can cost over 100,000. USD.

All the while politicians are screaming "we don't have enough doctors, engineers, lawyers". Fawk all you know why right? PEOPLE ARE WISING UP AND REALIZE IT DOESN'T PAY ANYMORE TO BECOME ONE.

hear! hear!

Santorum/Newt 2012!

No! I say Gingrich!! Just like 2008 Newt will come out of the Republican Smoke Screen as McCain did from his bankrupt campaign and win the Republican Nomination!! GO NEWT!!!

maybe they can just make their own rules and have gingrich/santorum/paul/palin for president, and with all those executives we can do away with congress and just sign what ever Grover sends them.

Yes, please nominate the screwball ... best thing that could happen to Obama since Gingrich!

Actually, as a democrat, I want the republicans to nominate Romney. Rarely has there been a candidate that was such a complete gaffe machine as to be absolutely GUARANTEED to implode.

What no one admits is that Republicans not only protect wealth but they are debtmongers. What exactly do you all think would happen if every American could be gainfully employed, financially stable and totally debt free? They'd go nuts that's what. In fact, they live in fear of equal prosperity and financial stability for all. They want you to tolerate inequality on every possible level.

What else explains Republican addiction to high risk Wall Street investing up to and including savaging our payroll deductions? What else explains Republicans incessant addiction to keeping the military industrialists richer than God and our kids dead and maimed?

Republicans want you to be in debt. Because when you owe, it's usually because you've been hit by one of their Big Business cronies in Big Oil, Big Insurance or any number of their hotcha wealthheaded thugs. If you don't consume goods or services, that's still no problem. Republicans will just see to it you get Big Oil tax subsidies and the cost of oil spills dumped on you and your future generations. If that doesn't work, they'll make sure there are enough tax cuts for the rich that leaves gaping holes in the revenues we need as taxpayers to pay off military debts to Halliburton and the rest of feeders at the military trough.

Neoconservatives lie. They love it that they can purvey debt. Why? Because the more we owe, the more wealth they amass. And the more wealth they amass, the more they control the rest of us.

You surely don't fall for their BS line about "wasteful spending", "welfare", "nanny" state and the rest of their degenerate gospels do you? What would they bitch about if the rest of the population had equal financial footing with them? Nada.

Neoconservatives like Santorum aren't after big money so much as big money that provides total control.

Well said, ewent!!!

Excellent comment, ewent.

lol @ ewent.

So I guess every rich person is a republican that is taking the liberals' money from them? Might want to clue my parents into that and maybe help them find the millions they've taken from you! I guess also that liberals don't use credit cards, they don't drive pickups or SUVs, they all live in green houses and drive electric cars.

What about the liberal thought of total control where the liberal government wants as many people dependent on the government as possible? That bull@!$%# goes both ways and you're spewing it out both holes.

Right about now, if I had to pick a party, I would go republican just because of the judgemental hate coming from the left. You claim that the right has nothing but racism, xenophobia, etc. How in the f'ing hell can you all claim to be any better with the @!$%# you're saying on these forums.

Look in the mirror, pot, kettle and the rest of that crap.

<puke>

egilman

Washington appears like PA. Conservative Socially, but liberal fiscally. In that combination fiscal wins most often.

In Pennsylvania they consistently bounce between A Republican Governor and a Democrat one. Republicans there are fiscally responsible, socialy liberal, democrats socially conservative and fiscally Liberal. One spends the state into debt the other brings it back. Currently they have a republican bringing the finances back in order.

Santorum is somewhat Conservative fiscally (got a lot of earmarks when in congress is the only delete) and socially conservative.

With the state of Washington passing gay marriage and 57% of its residents opposed to it, Santorum now stands a pretty good chance in Washington.

Alex - "if I had to pick a party"

please dont pick a party...you're uber awesome at riding the fence, pretending to be a "moderate" or "independent".

Hopefully, one day when you're done pretending to be a moderate/independent and not so lazy about the political process...you and all the people like you, will form a legit 3rd party...that espouses the views you guys hold.

But I dont know what those views are...so I dont have the opportunity to pretend to be a moderate...even though I logically understand that we need to govern from the middle (and frankly, this is what I think Obama has done quite well at - even if some of his positions seem extreme left because of how far right some people truly are (the middle is extreme left, when you're so far right).

Until then, i'll just watch people like you sway in the breeze...pretending to be "sending messages to both parties" each election when you vote the opposite of how you voted the election before...because after all, thats what makes you a true independent...having no clear idea of what you want or think the country needs, but being so dang anger you'll vote for the other party out of spite.

DB - im not sure what polling your citing, but the polls ive seen show it more evenly split.

and at the end of the day, I dont quite understand why some peoples religious beliefs get to trump other peoples civil rights.

if you dont like gay marriage, DONT HAVE ONE.

it really is that simple...and for republicans who seem to have big govt and govt intrusion in our lives, they continue to be heard as the hypocrites they truly are when it comes to issues they just feel "icky" about.

yeah, I feel icky about christians pretending to be christians...but ive not banned the phony ones from existing (you know, those catholics who use birth control, but still pretend to be catholics ANYWAY)

Jessica I am an independent because on social issues I lean left, on economic issues I lean a little right, on foreign policy right now I am right on with Obama. To say you can't be an independent is completely mistaken. All it means is we vote for the person, not the party.

And yes that means we actually analyze candidates thoroughly and are not sheep that follow what their party leaders tell us what to think.

Ewent, my old friend, I see you're hating on Republicans again,If you can count on anything that would be it. Jessica, kids say the darnedest things. As an Independent, I can choose from both parties that which I dislike or like, such as I don't like the open check book of the Liberals and the ridiculous tax breaks for the rich. I think OWS needs to get it's act together quit shouting down everyone they disagree with and listen for a change, and the Tea Party needs to learn to negotiate. Both parties need to understand you're not going to get everything you want, you have to give and take.

For the liberals you are going into an election in which the level of discontent in this country is the greatest in my lifetime and the split between the parties is greater than even during the Vietnam war. Neither the republicans or the democrats can win without the independent voter. And you are really not instilling any confisdence in me that you care about the rights of the citizens of this country with the namecalling 13 year old behavior I see from the left.

lone, you would be saying that about anyone that doesn't believe in your rigid and control of what people do behind clo in the bedrooms. I am staing known facts of both sides that are viciously attacking each other. This country need legistalaters who are willing to make compromise. Not Idieology rocks that refuse to even consider the other side. You Are wrong if you don't when you say that the elections an be the indepenendts and moderates have awlays determine the out come, they don't vote on party lines.

ewent,

They'd go nuts that's what. In fact, they live in fear of equal prosperity and financial stability for all. They want you to tolerate inequality on every possible level.

instability means cheaper, more desperate, uneducated workforce. Plus wealth is a zero sum game: in order for you to have more, someone must have less. Twenty years ago hearing about a billionaire was not common. Today, 25 hedge fund managers make $25 billion a year combined...and that's only one example.

Remember that pathetic US map of the post-Presidential election of 1984 when Ronald Reagan beat Walter Mondale, and only one state - Minnesota - showed up as blue on the map?

Republicans will long for such a representation - that is, even a single red state on a completely blue map come November. Not gonna happen, not even in the South.

Obama/Biden 2012.

@Rick,

Something you need to remember...

Obama was voted in purely because people wanted change, not because of his resume. I myself am guilty of voting for him in 08.

There is a large block of people across the country (including me) that don't like the change we received, we were expecting a different change. We will be voting for that change.

So don't count on the map looking the way you're expecting.

I honestly wish that Obama wasn't the only democrat running. I don't really care for the republican prospects, but I absolutely despise Obama and what he's done. I pretty much don't agree with anything he stands for, or anything he wants to do.

So, I will settle on a republican that can at least give me part of what I think this country needs.

It would've been nice if there was a better choice. If the democrats had someone running against Obama, then they would've had a better chance of keeping the presidency.

As it is now.... flip a coin, because we won't know until Nov.

AlexM-2364525

@Rick,

... I myself am guilty of voting for him in 08.

Well he's done a great job given the circumstance and I intend on voting for him again. That we "won't know until November" about the final outcome. Really? Santorum, Gingrich, Romney or Paul are suddenly going to start making sense to a majority of Americans? Puleeez. If you think we have to wait until November to comprehend the choices facing us right now, then we're in a lot more trouble than we will ever hope to overcome as a nation.

Seriously, if it comes down to a politician like Rick Santorum making an election-year issue out of whether or not I can wear a condom, while at the same time the Republican party accuses Obama of being the failed leader of a "Big, intrusive government", then the Republican party has zero credibility. Sorry. Did I say "if"? Let me just state even more clearly: The Republican party has ZERO credibility.

Yours is the party that cries "WOLF" every single day now, and then can't understand why Americans support is peeling off as quickly as your candidates open their mouths.

Conservatives keep overstepping their boundaries and they are doing so on a daily basis. It appears to be some kind of a mental illness, truly. I think my prediction of a total Democratic rout come November will not be so far off. People are just gutless in their predictions and are cautiously hedging their bets. Not me. Republicans don't have a dog in the fight.

Obama/Biden 2012

Alex...."Nice" if there was a better choice?? Sure, elect Santorum, and see what change you get - have fun with an American Taliban.
Romney might be ok, despite the funny underwear, because he is actually moderate.... he was for a lot of socially moderate ideals - before he knew he was against them.

Obama 2012

Seriously, if it comes down to a politician like Rick Santorum making an election-year issue out of whether or not I can wear a condom, while at the same time the Republican party accuses Obama of being the failed leader of a "Big, intrusive government", then the Republican party has zero credibility. Sorry. Did I say "if"? Let me just state even more clearly: The Republican party has ZERO credibility.

THIS

I could not have said it better myself.

Jan where exactly is the compromise with gay marriage issue. It seems to me there isn't a compromise. We who actually find this type of relationship to be immoral based on our religious beliefs have to give up our actual beliefs and just let it happen. Not much of a compromise, is it. Here's how I see it. This is a great time to be a Catholic. Iwill never in my life ever have to bare witness to a gay marriage in my church. See in my church marriage isn't just a ceremony, it's a sacrament, blessed by God and witnessed by all those who are present. That sanctityty can only be bestowed on a husband and wife. i also would like to say is I haven't a problem with gay couple standing in front of a judge and a judge pronouncing them man and man or woman and woman. You then will be marriage in the eyes of the law but never in the eyes of God. If That's what your seeking go ahead I could give a rats ass. that is what you have a right to. You do not have a right to try to change the way any church views gay marriage. I also believe if there is a church who believes it's okay then there you go get marriage there I could care even less.

We who actually find this type of relationship to be immoral based on our religious beliefs have to give up our actual beliefs and just let it happen. Not much of a compromise, is it. Here's how I see it. This is a great time to be a Catholic. Iwill never in my life ever have to bare witness to a gay marriage in my church. See in my church marriage isn't just a ceremony, it's a sacrament, blessed by God

Ummm... the Catholic church has distinguished between marriage and "holy matrimony". You Catholics participate in "holy matrimony" which is different than the government-supported contractual property and asset agreement that marriage represents.

Homosexuals are NOT asking for "holy matrimony"... they are asking for marriage, which your church has already distinguished between. Thus, your concern has already been taken care of and compromised with.

So the "holy matrimony" that you will witness will continue to be just for you... and half of them will continue to fail because the blessing of God is just THAT strong.

You do not have a right to try to change the way any church views gay marriage. I also believe if there is a church who believes it's okay then there you go get marriage there I could care even less.

Again... that is exactly what they want. So your "concerns" have already been addressed and taken care of.

They do not get "holy matrimony", only you do. They want marriage, the government supported contract, NOT your "holy matrimony". So you get to keep your Catholic form of marriage, and continue to feel like a special little snowflake.

I don't understand why you are upset. What you said is basically what they want as well... the contractual rights that come with marriage, NOT the blessing of some church that molests children. You get to keep your f***ed up religion to yourself, with all its anti-contraceptive and "poor me, there is a war on religion but I don't pay taxes" talk. They just want the government contract that everyone else gets.

igoforo - you need not worry. I think you are misunderstanding what the pro-gay marriage people want. And what you state you are ok with is exactly what they are ok with. That being to be able to go to a judge and get "married" so they can be afforded all the "legal" rights that heteros have. It's the LEGAL stuff that matters most to them - ie: being able to have power of attorney, insurance coverage, hospital visitation, wills that can withstand other family members objections, etc. etc. Gays that are religiously inclined will be inclined to go get married a church/temple that accepts them. There are plenty out there. The Methodists and Universal/Unitarians welcome gays with open arms. Gays are not trying to get the law to say that any and all religions have to perform/sanction their marriage. Not at all.

I can see there are many "kool aid" drinkers today.

We who actually find this type of relationship to be immoral based on our religious beliefs have to give up our actual beliefs and just let it happen. Not much of a compromise, is it.

It's called "Freedom of Religion" igoforo.

You don't get to dictate what others should believe. Religious freedom is the right of every citizen of this country, guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

No one said you had to like it.

Pull you head out again WALDO...name's AGGIE, not "Angie." "Is that all I got"? Yeah, for people like you. You aren't capable of making a decent comment, much less an intelligent comment when you stoop to using one's dead child to bash and slam. Reading that, I doubt you could even understand an intelligent comment. I'll save any discussion for the adults. Why waste my time.

ewent and all who agree with him like me you've been programmed by the lame stream media and more importantly by the liberals aka communist propaganda machine in control of hollywood and tv. Last 50 years the bad guys were always republicans, business men, and capitalist on tv and the movies this is fiction. The conservative republican wants to preserve the core structure of this country which is the only structure or ideology that actually works, the liberal aka progressive, aka socialist republicans like McCain & snow believe in the same failing ideology of big government that the communist party formerly known as the democratic party does, which makes them no better. The communist pretending to be americans don't care about the poor, don't care about the gays and certainly don't care about this country they care about power and control. They've pulled the same stunts in other countries to gain control leaving them stagnating or degrading. The founding generation of the united states left everything they new and many loved ones behind and suffered a long and brutal voyage to get here in order to escape socialist governments because living in a free and equal capitalist system where anyone with a dollar and the willingness to work for it could become rich and you idiots want to bring the disease here. The reason we're having problems is because of the socialist regulations and agencies that have been building up over time and the best thing is to fill the house and senate of the federal government and state governments with conservatives who will cut the socialist tumors. Fdr was the biggest communist traitor since wilson and he and his keynesian economic experts could not steal and spend enough to pull us out of the depression what did it was suspending the regulations on the private industry thanks to world war 2 which is funny we stopped the socialists occupying german and for a time saved ourselves from a socialist occupation as well. Since your probably to self absorb and selfish I can't convince you that money people are enjoying because of the hard work and scarifies they've made is really none of your business or that they're contributions are all around you in community hospitals, colleges, parks, medical research, and libraries but the one fact you can't denial is that there isn't enough rich to support the population of government dependent crap and if we wait until the economy does fully collapse those who truly need help the elderly and disabled will be the one's to suffer. If you are man or women who call yourselves americans that I can't see you voting for anything but a conservative, which doesn't necessarily mean republican.

Demonomore, ewent is a women who has shall I say a disdain for Republican Men sometimes funny sometimes controversial, but never boring.

I'm going to venture to guess that those people claiming to "despise Obama and what he's done" don't have the SLIGHTEST clue what he's done.

They're grabbing at straws manufactured by propagandists and nonfactual sound bytes spewwed over and over again by empty talking heads.

Voting for the "Person" without considering his party affiliation and political philosophy is the mark of stupidity.

Nobody just votes for the democrat because the party "tells them to."

They vote for the democrat because to NOT vote for the democrat means the increased chance that the party that will take over is the party that believes that government has NO role to play except bullying the disenfranchised, making sure that Greedy,selfish and wealthy people are able to continue to be greedier, more selfish and wealthier, forcing Christian "values" upon even those who don't practice it, restablishing white male supremacy, and returning to the policies that this country so rightfully purged long ago.

The guy with the R after his name is either just plain Wrong, Clueless, a Supremacist or all of the above.

I vote democrat and pressure my candidates to vote left.

Voting for "the person" is tantamount to using Cult of Personality to make your decisions. Apparently, some people have voted the same way since voting for Homecoming King and Queen in Highschool.

Whenever there's a real fight, you'll always find a buzzard or two sittin' on the fence.

Have a nice day.

One carrion per passenger.

At one point, nearly the entire crowd pointed at the protesters, chanting "Get a job." But Santorum quelled the crowd, using it as an opportunity to dig at President Obama.

Lest this "tolerance" used to attack the president be misconstrued as leadership, also remember the "Get a job" is coming from Birthers who believe the president is in office illegally and is a Muslim -- an ignorant lie Santorum also failed to correct. Santorum and his Flat Earth Society can go back to the Dark Ages, but leave the rest of us alone. We're happy to prosper without them.

Democratnomore -- I thought McCarthyism was gone. Well add McCarthyism to the Flat Earth Society in the tent that is the Greedy One Percent (GOP).

kaybeetoys -- Exactly. They think freedom of religion means ignoring the Laws of the Land, like animal sacrifice, or polygamy, and worse imposing their narrow backward views on people of other faiths or people of no faith -- Who have rights too! OMG, we've got to do something about the education system in this country.

jac-931625 -- In all fairness, wouldn't Civil Unions give gays all the same legal rights? Is it necessary to change the word "marriage" as has been defined in the dictionary in order to have equality? Or is changing the word "marriage" an important way to have their sexual preference condoned, not just accepted?

I am a person of no faith, but I am a moderate Independent (leaning to the left), and try to see issues from all sides. And though I'm a person of no faith, I will protect freedom of religion -- as long as it adheres to the Laws of the Land -- and as long as religious people respect my rights as well (like health insurance). But the same goes for any group, in that gays must respect straight people too.

True Patriot....Have you forgotten that it was Hillary Clinton's people who started the birther thing during her run against Obama in the Dem. Primaries?

ewent-- Definitely debt, as well as ignorance are forms of slavery. That's how the aristocracy, along with the Catholic Church ruled during the Dark Ages (and throw in some fear). And before birth control, women were second class citizens at best, who were often raped by their masters and if they became pregnant many commit suicide because they would lose their job and could not support themselves. This is the Teapublican vision (nightmare), of every man, woman, and child for his/herself under the guise of "morals' and "family values" and religion being under attack. Riiight.

Aggie-345886 -- Hillary didn't start the Birther conspiracy -- She like Santorum failed to state in no uncertain terms that it was not true, and she lost support for that. But this is and has been a right-wing conspiracy. And there were those to the Left who wanted to bring up the issue of McCain being born in Panama, but the Dem leadership squashed it. This is why McCain has been the only Republican to soundly refute the Birther BS.

I challenge all those people voting for "The Person" to find a Communist, Socialist, or Facist "Person" they can vote for.

Case closed.

Then again, those very same people probably don't know the meaning of the above terms.

Have a nice day.

"Get a Job!"

Standard reply from Teapublicans.

After "Get a Job they shout, "Get a NON Union job!"

Then you tell them that the corporation wants you to survive on less than minimum wage, work in unsafe environments (to make it cheaper for the company) and kill yourself just to make the factory's bottom line, all while the execs and CEO make 1000 times what they deserve and they shout, "Quit whining!"

Then you tell them you're living below the poverty line and they shout, "Don't be jealous because I'm rich!"

Then you remind them that their Daddys were rich or at least part of the privileged, accepted class - they answer that with, "Why do you bring up the race card?"

Then you tell them that they're claiming that hispanics, blacks and women have been historically disenfranchised and Teapublicans want to relive that history - then they shout accusations of Class Warfare, Race Cards, Welfare, Socialism,War against Christianity, THAT DOES not COMPUTE...that does not compute....that does not compute...that does not compute....

Then their heads explode.

Have a nice day.

kaybeetoys -- Exactly. They think freedom of religion means ignoring the Laws of the Land, like animal sacrifice, or polygamy, and worse imposing their narrow backward views on people of other faiths or people of no faith -- Who have rights too! OMG, we've got to do something about the education system in this country.

Thank you, TruePatriot. Freedom of religion does not entitle anyone, of any religion, to impose their beliefs on others, nor does it entitle citizens to commit crimes under the guise of religious practice.

Have people forgotten how this country was colonized? The Pilgrims, Quakers, Anglicans, Calvinists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Huguenots, Lutherans, Mennonites, Amish, Moravians, Jews and others (as well as Muslims who can more freely practice Islam in the U.S. than they can elsewhere) came here because they wanted religious freedom.

Our founding fathers respected this diversity and understood that the only way people can live together in peace is to live with religious tolerance and acceptance.

How can we even consider destroying that foundation that goes back hundreds of years? It is the very bedrock upon which this nation was built.

JTrowbrdge

I can see there are many "kool aid" drinkers today.

If you are referring to the Rev. Jim Jones the right-wing @!$%#, who conned his followers into drinking Flavor Aid (NOT Kool aid) tainted with cyanide, killing hundreds? "Reverend" Jim Jones who moments earlier had assassinated Democratic congressman Leo Ryan on the runway in Guyana, where this crazy @!$%# had retreated to to push his fanatical religion? Then yes, I agree. It appears as if there are a lot of those same kind of religious, fanatical flavored beverage drinkers online. They are not liberals or progressives. They are exactly the same kind of crazy-@!$%# conservatives who thought murdering a Democratic congressman and hundreds of innocent men, women and children was a good idea. Maybe you should table the Kool-aid comments if you don't know that of which you speak or clarify if you do. Here is what the Kool-aid comment references, for you younger readers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

True Patriot: Why should Santorim state that the birther thing is not true? Why WOULD he even address it? And I didn't say Hillary started it. I said her people. No right wing conspiracy, although some on the right did run with it. Which Obama could have squelched immediately by providing a long form birth certificate, rather than wait nearly 3 years, not counting the months and months before the election, to produce one. Him stalling that long just fed to the question. Never could figure out why any questions were even raised about McCain....he was born on a U.S. military installation, in a U.S. terrority, whose parents were both both American citizens. Why the libs even tried to make his birthplace an issue was a wasted effort.

Aggie

Im going to need documentation that youve provided a DNA sample to a lab and that theyve confirmed your species before you post anything else because I'm pretty sure you arent human. CHOP CHOP!!!!

First off, the pills are not free. They are paid for by the taxpayers, which would effectively mean that the 60% of the country that pays taxes are giving the other 40% free birth control, which obviously does not come cheap or else we wouldn't need it tacked onto our tax burden.

Second, those of us that are against this move like to believe in a little something called personal responsibility. If you can't afford the consequences of your actions, don't do it. Very simple.

Nothing is free, I'm sorry you never learned that.

So why is Viagra covered with no problem?

The only way to settle this is to require all men to get a prostate and sexual health exam for every Viagra refill and make the results public! Only then will you get a HINT of what women have to go thru for simple private personal health care.

Look down the pew in a Catholic church. You don't see 8 or 9 children anymore.Please make this a central issue my rightwing friends. You might get the bishop on your side but i know who the women are going to be voting for.

I would rather subsidize a few pills through my insurance than assume responsibility for a botched abortion or 18 years of subsidizing childrearing.

Chris
Wow, guess you have never had any woman you loved, even your mother. Because birth control pills are used for a multitutd of women's health issues, not just to prevent pregnancy.

So everyone contributes to a pool of money and then others take out what they need. That's exactly how insurance works, same as your car insurance. Actually the same as the roads you drive on, the police who come to your aid, the food you can trust. Its all socialism, that's what a society is - a banding together to aid each other and all prosper together. It's not a dirty word dispite what your heros on Fox et al tell you. Nobody can survive alone.

Chris, you do understand that this is birth control and not abortion? Women taking birth control shows that they ARE taking personal responsibility by not allowing anymore unwanted children. So how can WE as a society not make this more affordable? Do you really want unwanted kids running around? Filling up our correctional facilities and wasting our goverment resources on welfare. Get off your high horse Mr. Personal Responsibility and realize that not everyone is as evolved with superior will-power, intelligence and discipline as you are when in the heat of passion. But then again, i doubt you have brought any lady to that moment.

Chris: Do the math. Even a tiny percentage of fewer births, or even fewer abortions, easily pays for the contraceptives. It is overall lower healthcare costs.

And if you want to keep following the path from there.....

Down the line, fewer unwanted pregnancies leads to less people needing public assistance. Even further down the line, numerous studies show that unwanted children tend to eventually raise crime rates and many end up in jail or even prison.

So, for the sake of argument, and not advocating but rather explaining, let's explore the theological reason for the Catholic Church's stand on contraceptives.

The first thing to recognize is that the Church's position is based on the belief that life begins at the instant of conception. At that instant God endows this new life with a soul. That soul is fully formed. It is not infantile and it is not dependent on external sources for its existence. Therfore, this new life is fully human and worthy of human dignity and personhood.

The difficulty with contraceptives for the Church is that they do not, if fact, prevent pregnancy. Birth control pills do not prevent ovum and sperm from joining. What birth control pills do is cause a very early abortion by creating an inhospitable uterine environment. They are properly classified as abortifacients not contraceptives. Because of its belief in the instantaneous personhood of this new life, the Church sees no difference in performing an abortion at any stage in the pregnancy.

One might then ask why the Church would be opposed to the use of condoms since they do prevent the pregnancy from occurring. The objection to condoms is based on a different line of reasoning. Understand that the Church believes that sexual intercourse is only proper within a valid marriage. When a couple is married within the Church, before they make promises to each other, they make promises to the Church. Among these vows is that they will be open to God's gift of children. Because condoms place an artificial barrier in the way of becoming pregnant, their use violates the vow that the couple made to the Church.

You are of course free to agree or disagree with this theological line of reasoning. I think it is important though to understand that the Church's position is internally logical and rational, stemming from the original proposition of the beginning of life.

So Shaolin - to the Church there is no difference between the use of birth control pills and an abortion.

So Jack - I don't think we can reduce the sanctity of human life to a mathematical equation and the Church would argue that we cannot use the destruction of human life as a methodology to resolve other social problems. If you accept the Church's definition of the beginning of life then what you are saying is that because a child is going to be born into poverty, rather than fix the problem of poverty in American, we will kill the child to be so born.

This is exactly why the Supreme Court failed so badly in the Roe decision. The ONLY decision that had any importance in that case was when we, as a society, believe that life begins. There was no other decision of importance in that case and failing to address that question was the biggest act of judicial cowardace in the 20th century.

First off, the pills are not free. They are paid for by the taxpayers, which would effectively mean that the 60% of the country that pays taxes are giving the other 40% free birth control, which obviously does not come cheap or else we wouldn't need it tacked onto our tax burden.

Second, those of us that are against this move like to believe in a little something called personal responsibility. If you can't afford the consequences of your actions, don't do it. Very simple.

I'll bet dollar for dollar it takes a lot more of MY tax money to fund YOUR churches than it does to hand out condoms or birth control pills.

And something you people never think of because it seems to be a hallmark of the conservative mindset is what happens to this unwanted children? How much is going to cost to try them and jail them when they've murdered someone? How much is going to cost to support them in the foster care system? How much is it going to cost to undo the destruction they sow?

A great american once said, "a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Sam - You watched hardball yesterday

Look down the pew in a Catholic church. You don't see 8 or 9 children anymore

Chris Matthews rocks!

Sam - You watched hardball yesterday

Look down the pew in a Catholic church. You don't see 8 or 9 children anymore

Chris Matthews rocks!

JoeMike - So, when a woman, married or not, gets pregnant and, due to factors beyond her control, has a miscarriage; is that god punishing her for..her sins? Or the fetus sinned and since it did not repent, lost its soul and god's punishment was eternal damnation and a trip to the fiery pit. You can spin the church's teachings anyway you wish, but today's arguments against birth control are rooted in the early mortality rate that existed when the church was founded.

First off, the pills are not free. They are paid for by the taxpayers, which would effectively mean that the 60% of the country that pays taxes are giving the other 40% free birth control

The babies that result when those 40% can't get birth control are paid for by the taxpayers, too, and they cost a lot more.

JoeMike,

Your argument simply becomes untenable at "the Church's position is based on the belief". What a church believes and what the rest of the population believes can, and many times are, two different things. Although the church sees no difference between contraception and abortion, that doesn't mean they can dictate social policy to the rest of the country. This is exactly why we have a separation of Church and State. Wasn't one of the reasons why the opposition claimed Kennedy shouldn't be elected President was because the Vatican would have too great an influence our politics and policies?

As an Irish Catholic, I was highly offended when they read the bishops letter during mass. Frankly, I haven't been back since. I know many in our congregation feels the same way. As many have already mentioned in this vine, the great majority of Catholics have used and will continue to use contraception. Based on your analogy, the church is effectively calling them "baby killers". Is that the message the church is trying to convey? If so, they will see far more empty pews on Sunday.

The Church needs to be very careful how they pursue their line of reasoning. One only needs to look at the Susan G. Komen flap to see how the rest of the country feels about women health issues and services.

The republican party: bringing you smaller government unless it has to do with women's bodies since 1854

AND 58% of Catholics favor Obama's proposal ... so much for a bunch of narrow minded old men in robes & funny hats.

If I may interject. Why are we all fighting over what is covered in health care. Allow people the freedom to access what they need whether it is birthcontrol or viagra, or anything else. I pay into the system too and I don't care if others use it for what they need. I remember when health care was about getting just that, not some entity such as, gov, religion, insurance companies, employers, telling us what is allowed. People get sick, that is life, stop blaming people for the illnesses or procedures they need help with. What you allow others to access freely, you too will access freely.

Comment collapsed by the commenter for being too harsh and unfeeling.

Sean makes a good point - it costs one hell of a lot more to pay for a baby - or two, or three, or more - for 18 years (and its mother, 'cause the 'baby daddy' is no where to be found!) than for birth control pills. And they may be free if you're on medicaid, but they sure aren't for the average person, even with insurance - but they're still cheaper than the costs to raise a kid on the taxpayer dollar.

Stop watching "Teen Mom" on MTV - that's not exactly reality, those girls are portrayed as having to give up everything, but they're all compensated for appearing on that show and none of them are really hurting for anything.

Sounds like you all are missing the big picture here. I could give a crap about the Catholic church, they are nothing but big business making money off an delusion. The big problem is the fact that Obama stepped all over the constitution with religious freedom.

This isn't just about the Catholic church, it's about any and every church.

joemike404: More than half of fertilized eggs never implant normally. Did God imbue them with fully formed souls just to kill them?

Chris

Most of us would much rather pay for a birth control pill then to have to support a child till it's 18. Do the math pal.

You've got nothing but empty rhetoric Chris. Which is pretty much the GOP/tp platform.

Listentome -

Though I'm not Catholic, I understand that the church position is based on the Bible's ideas about sanctity of life (that the giving and taking of life belong to God alone) and its statements about those who take it away from others. If you do not agree with what the Bible teaches, why would you attend church in the first place? It never fails to confuse me, when people who attend a "Bible-based" church, start saying things like, "The church has no right to 'judge' me and/or tell me what I should or shouldn't believe or say or do!" - Either you believe what the Bible teaches or you don't, so if that's your position, why do you attend church and pretend you believe what the Bible says (because it does say that there are "standards" that "believers" should adhere to)? If you start "picking and choosing" what parts of the Bible you choose to believe and what parts you don't, you're now committing what the Bible calls "idolatry" by making up your own "god" as you go - one that suits you. In so doing (whether you realize it or not), you are really setting yourself up as "god", because, rather than submitting to God as he is described in the Bible (and His Word - i.e. the Bible), you are "creating" a different "god" that allows you to think, say, and do as you wish, and ultimately, you are in charge, not your "god". Also, if you don't believe what the Bible says about certain things, then all of the Bible becomes "suspect", and you no longer have any real hope of "Heaven" - after all, those parts about love, forgiveness, and going to Heaven are right in there with those things that are "not believed". By the way, I do realize that there are times when "leaders" in churches stray from what the Bible teaches and their words and actions should be questioned, but only when one can go to the Bible and show that it really contradicts what they are saying or doing - because then they are no longer being "true" to the beliefs they need to help hold others accountable for.

Even animals have sex Chris Sapp. So are you telling us not to have it and that's being responsible. Because if you don't have sex then you wont have kids. Or only have sex if you want kids? You are only giving us two options which is what you call being responsible.

1) Responsible: Don't have sex, it may produce children you don't want

2) Responsible: Only have sex if you want children

Isn't that telling people what to do? HELL YES it is

Now get the Phuck out my bedroom because I want to have sex when and if i want to. And if I want to have protection while doing it I will. I am the middle class have been since 18.

Kosmonot - you nailed it. The Bible puts it this what

From Second Timothy ch 3

You must realize, however, that in the last days difficult times will come. ²People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, ³unfeeling,
uncooperative, slanderous, degenerate, brutal, hateful of what is
good, ⁴traitors, reckless, conceited, and lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. ⁵They will hold to an outward form of godliness but deny its power. Stay away from such people. ⁶For some of these men go into homes and deceive foolish women who are burdened with sins and swayed by all kinds of desires. ⁷These women are always studying but are never able to arrive at a full knowledge of the truth.

Don't be amaze, don't be frightened, this was to happen from the foundations of the world.

Paid for with taxpayer money? Really? So now insurance is paid for with tax money? Howcome I still have to pay a premium. Good lord you pubs are like listening to a skipping record. You can't seem to change to fit the situation. Fist thing out of your mouth no matter the subject is "paid for with my tax money". It would be amusing if it weren't so utterly pathetic.

@AlexM

There was no stepping on the constitution here. It's just a requirement that the Catholic Hospitals etc follow the law. They do in 28 states without whining about it. You people just need a talking point because you're running out of empty rhetoric and lies.

If the hospitals want to give up their tax exempt status they are free to do so. Calling them not for profit is BS and everybody knows it.

Hey Genius's the condoms and pill would only exempt religious organizations and their affiliates not general Insurance for companies. You know exempt just like some states from Obamacare. Why is this just now a problem? Where were you whiners when it wasn't part of your Insurance,it's not like they are banning these things

Tommy I am a woman but coverage for BC won't do me much good if your administration gets another term I'll probably be in jail in less than two years for praying in public or protesting. I have a hard time keeping my big mouth shut.

Now get the Phuck out my bedroom because I want to have sex when and if i want to. And if I want to have protection while doing it I will. I am the middle class have been since 18.

Solutions: Then pay for your birth control yourself. You admitted that you can have sex when you want to. Why should anyone else have to foot your bill? If you are the middle class as you say, then you can afford your own damn pills.

So why is Viagra covered with no problem?

An Individual: Because Viagra relates to sexual disfunction. Last I heard, women can still have sex without the use of birth control.

The only way to settle this is to require all men to get a prostate and sexual health exam for every Viagra refill and make the results public! Only then will you get a HINT of what women have to go thru for simple private personal health care

Then I think all women should make public their results of all their pap smears and mammograms when dealing with the insurance company. Stop playing damsels in distress and act like women! This is a not question of health, not who you don't get to screw!

@Dennis

Just because 28 states are doing it doesn't make it right, after all, isn't that why your idol (Obama) is suing how many states right now for trying to enforce federal immigration laws?

Also, it is stepping on the constitution. Forcing a group of people to do what their religion tells them not to do (regardless of the religion or whether or not you agree with it) is against the constitution. You liberals defend Muslims for sharia which break our laws, but you won't step up for the catholics for the same reason?

How hypocritical! (oh, but I thought only republicans did that!)

joemike - The Pill is not an abortion pill - the Pill is a concoction of hormones that's purpose it to PREVENT OVULATION. If ovulation occurs, say the Pill was not taken as directed, the patient can get pregnant.

The Pill is NOT abortion inducing. It is supposed to prevent ovulation.

Alex, if the Church will give up it's tax exemption, I think then they should be freed from the edicts of the government. As long as the church enjoys protection from paying taxes at the begest of the governemnt, they need to follow the rules the government imposes.

Just want to point out, the "pill" is already available free to poor women. Many others can get it at no to low cost. This law is not going to suddenly prevent all these welfare baby mamas (and that includes both black and white trash) from having babies. That will continue to go on as long as our government keep on subsidizing it.

Other women will still have to go to their docs and get an exam to get a prescription. That won't change. Most insurance plans already cover it except some may not cover the more extremely expensive brands that the drug companies want to push to increase their margins. The generic kind are already pretty reasonably priced. I don't see this law as costing a lot. It's more of an ideology argument more than one of cost.

Lastly, for all you saying that Viagra and the like are covered by insurance. It is not necessarity the case. My current ins and the insurance I had with my former job does NOT cover it. Your employer gets to decide if they want to include it in their coverage.

Dennis - I have no problem with "giving to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar." - If I were in charge of a church, I'd give up the "tax exempt status" just to keep the government and others "off my back", so to speak. "Here's your taxes, now leave me alone!"

-- Of course that brings up a whole new side to "separation of church and state" - by paying taxes, the churches are "entangling" themselves with the government and it's programs and agenda. Seeing as how most people seem to be adamantly opposed to churches getting "mixed up" in the affairs and ways of the government, maybe it's good that they don't pay taxes. :-D

If women had unfettered access to birth control and pregnancy termination, Teapublicans would no longer have Denying Medical Care to Infants, Denying Subsidized Free Lunch and Breakfast Programs at public schools, Music and Art programs to run against.

They, essentially, would have no life.

What's a Teapublican if they can't destroy the life of the infant AFTER CONCEPTION?

Have a nice day.

One of the most important parts of our U.S. Constitution is the 1st Amendment, the freedom of speech. I think it is a critically important part of our political process to allow Republicans to speak freely on issues like religion, abortion, birth control, gay marriage/gays serving openly in the military.

Without that kind of freedom, we sane ones would have a much more difficult task of easily identifying the crazy people.

lonereb

Tommy I am a woman but coverage for BC won't do me much good if your administration gets another term I'll probably be in jail in less than two years for praying in public or protesting. I have a hard time keeping my big mouth shut.

Actually it was W who imposed most on the first amendment by creating "free speech zones" at his public appearances when he ran for reelection. A couple was taken to jail for simply wearing an anti-Bush pin at one of his events!

Read these two excerpts from an article from The American Conservative.....YES THATS RIGHT A CONSERVATIVE PUBLICATION!! 

When Bush travels around the United States, the Secret Service visits the location ahead of time and orders local police to set up “free speech zones” or “protest zones” where people opposed to Bush policies (and sometimes sign-carrying supporters) are quarantined. These zones routinely succeed in keeping protesters out of presidential sight and outside the view of media covering the event.

When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, “The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us.” The local police, at the Secret Service’s behest, set up a “designated free-speech zone” on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush’s speech. The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, though folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president’s path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct; the police also confiscated his sign. Neel later commented, “As far as I’m concerned, the whole country is a free speech zone. If the Bush administration has its way, anyone who criticizes them will be out of sight and out of mind.”

Police have repressed protesters during several Bush visits to the St. Louis area as well. When Bush visited on Jan. 22, 2003, 150 people carrying signs were shunted far away from the main action and effectively quarantined. Denise Lieberman of the ACLU of Eastern Missouri commented, “No one could see them from the street. In addition, the media were not allowed to talk to them. The police would not allow any media inside the protest area and wouldn’t allow any of the protesters out of the protest zone to talk to the media.” When Bush stopped by a Boeing plant to talk to workers, Christine Mains and her five-year-old daughter disobeyed orders to move to a small protest area far from the action. Police arrested Mains and took her and her crying daughter away in separate squad cars.

Read the whole article at theamericanconservative.com.

lonereb

Tommy I am a woman but coverage for BC won't do me much good if your administration gets another term I'll probably be in jail in less than two years for praying in public or protesting. I have a hard time keeping my big mouth shut.

Actually it was W who imposed most on the first amendment by creating "free speech zones" at his public appearances when he ran for reelection. A couple was taken to jail for simply wearing an anti-Bush pin at one of his events!

Read these two excerpts from an article from The American Conservative.....YES THATS RIGHT A CONSERVATIVE PUBLICATION!!

When Bush travels around the United States, the Secret Service visits the location ahead of time and orders local police to set up "free speech zones" or "protest zones" where people opposed to Bush policies (and sometimes sign-carrying supporters) are quarantined. These zones routinely succeed in keeping protesters out of presidential sight and outside the view of media covering the event.

When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, "The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us." The local police, at the Secret Service's behest, set up a "designated free-speech zone" on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush's speech. The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, though folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president's path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct; the police also confiscated his sign. Neel later commented, "As far as I'm concerned, the whole country is a free speech zone. If the Bush administration has its way, anyone who criticizes them will be out of sight and out of mind."

Police have repressed protesters during several Bush visits to the St. Louis area as well. When Bush visited on Jan. 22, 2003, 150 people carrying signs were shunted far away from the main action and effectively quarantined. Denise Lieberman of the ACLU of Eastern Missouri commented, "No one could see them from the street. In addition, the media were not allowed to talk to them. The police would not allow any media inside the protest area and wouldn't allow any of the protesters out of the protest zone to talk to the media." When Bush stopped by a Boeing plant to talk to workers, Christine Mains and her five-year-old daughter disobeyed orders to move to a small protest area far from the action. Police arrested Mains and took her and her crying daughter away in separate squad cars.

Read the whole article at theamericanconservative.com.

sure they know what they want....they want the world and they want it now and their buddy obama promised to give it to them and they wont have to lift a finger to earn it as the world is what they are entitled to. thus they think that anyone who has matured and actually had to work for what they have is a teabagger.

No Kevin, you are wrong. What you said is simply what you want to think.

What these kids want, is not welfare, its -A- job. ANY job, because right now, their age group can't even get a minimum wage job unless they were either part of the cheerleader/jock crowd or are skilled liars.

Most young people who have a minimum wage job today are liars. Only a small percent really are happy, cheery bright super positive perfect workers. Most of the OWS crowd are probably either to proud, disciplined or stupid to lie their way into a job.

Could it be possible that they need to EARN the job? Or maybe even create one? Nope just GIMME GIMME!

What Do We Want?

We Don't Know!

When Do We Want It?

NOW!

Awesome, more hyperbole without addressing a single point in my previous post. Pure, unadulterated propaganda.

Way to go.

Kevin. Do you realize that the unemployment rate for people 55 and over is 7.1% which is down from the record of 7.2%? I will admit this is lower than the younger demographics, but this older demographic also has a longer than avg duration of joblessness of 35.5 weeks versus the 23.3 weeks of those 16 to 24 and 30.3 weeks of those 25 to 54? Check the bureau of labor and statistics buddy. This isn't a problem that only effects young people... Infact this statistic shows that the kids are getting off their butts and getting jobs before the old farts do, oh and they still find time, after work, to come down to a rally and use their first amendment.

BTW It's great to see that their first amendment rights made Rick have to strain to use his.

read the first amendment again, a bunch of OWS kids are not the government.

"Kids", really?!

fissilemissile - You were doing fine right up until the end and then your post got stupid. I am one of those unemployed, over 55 "old farts" and my getting a new job has nothing to do with me getting "off my butt". The reason the average unemployment duration is longer for those over 55 is the rampant age discrimination that occurs in this country. The other problem (equally affecting all age groups) is the anti-unemployed bias that exists out there. Just got told again yesterday by a recruiter that her client is not interested in interviewing anyone not currently working.

How about you get down from your ignorant, self-righteous pedestal and realize that for most of us getting a job is not about lack of desire or persistance, but lack of opportunity.

Mom if the OWS "kids" as you disparagingly call them, aren't the government then they DO have first amendment rights. Even if not everyone agrees with them. That's how it works.

You know, I'm just wondering why "Occupy" doesn't protest against Obama?

What exactly has HE done to put people back to work?

What has HE done for the poor and underprivileged, or for union workers?

Last time I looked he was giving money away to G.M. and to banking institutions. You mean the upper echelons of THOSE entities are part of the 99% too?

WOW, that's news to me!

I support the Occupy movement, too.

But, let's get REAL here! Obama hasn't done jack-$#!+ for the 99%.

In fact, he's already announced that he's going to start taking money from Super PAC's.

You can't get anymore ANTI-99% than that!

WAKE UP America! You are being hoodwinked by a slick talking used car salesman who doesn't give a damn about you or your family, or the average guy on the street.

Do you seriously think for one second that Obama is, or (ever) was part of the 99%?

GET REAL AND WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dudogger,

Kids, really?.....yes dudogger...really. You occupiers want to act like a bunch of kids and you will be referred to as such. You want a job? Go to mcdonalds, go to perkins, go to a farm or better yet, go to North Dakota where the jobless rate is barely 3%. You feel jobs are an entitlement that you deserved and you are wrong. You want a job, you have to earn it. You raging liberals have lost all your fight that created the american dream in the first place. Keep expecting the rest of the country to entitle you to a job and keep becoming dissappointed.

Yours truly,

J Merle Stanley,

Good post and interesting. Obama is using a Republican technique called trickle down economics. It is an economic strategy that has been greatly criticized for years. Obama believes he will help the middle class by helping the job creators. Apparently it worked to. Go figure, the Republican strategy that Obama finally collapsed under worked!

Cirnobyl- As an out of work person who seems to be on the wrong end of the age & experience spectrum, I can attest to many job postings in my area that specifically ask for a high school diploma and "less than 1 year experience" that are paying $9-$10 per hour. They want young people (and likely immigrants too). They don't seem to want "older, more experienced people". Of course, many places are also asking for things like "warehouse workers" that are also "experienced in computer networking and repair" that will work for $10 per hour. The problem seems to be that it's a "buyer's market", and too many employers are "asking for the moon", but don't want to pay anywhere close to the wages that degrees and experience should earn workers.

For those of you who clearly are incapable, unwilling or just to dense to be able to find anything for yourself. FYI, only 30% of the people participating in OWS are unemployed which leaves 70% that ARE employed. As opposed to the Tea Party twits who have a 44% unemployment rate among them with only 56% employed. Gee, tell me again who the deadbeats sucking off the gov teat are?

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11/most-%E2%80%9Coccupy-wall-street%E2%80%9D-protesters-have-jobs/

BYL, so OWS has their First Amendment right to shout down someone trying to use their First Amendment right? Maybe they should use the Right forum to show their displeasure with whom ever they believe is holding them down

Look I came out of college at a time just as bad guys with masters degrees were flipping burgers at McD's. I couldn't get a job in my field heck I couldn't get one cleaning cages at Pet Smart. My boyfriends sister had a franchise for Affy Tapple we worked for her and lived in one room upstairs until his father got the Executive Housekeeper at the hospital he worked for to give me a chance. I cleaned patient rooms and the morgue and was glad to get a check. I worked there 6 years then moved to Texas and got a sales support job at Montgomery Ward. I have actually never been able to get a job in my field but I supported myself and my child for 42 years. Times are bad you'll have to take what you can get.

LMAO!

Corky actually thinks that Trickle Down Economics works, lol.

That's quite rich. I've got a cramp now. Thanks Corky.

Cork. Let me inform you of a little something..

The Incomes of the wealthy have EXPLODED. Ceos and their corporations have netted unequaled. unprecedented profits.

Do YOU wanna explain to me, if "Trickle Down Economics" works so well, why you guys are screaming about the lack of jobs and calling this President the "Foodstamp President?"

Which tine in your tongue will you use to answer me, now?

Have a nice day.

Sally.

I'll tell you who the deadbeats, sucking off the government teat are...

The Church.

Sucking us dry and not contributing one red cent to the country that supports them.

Living off all of us tax payers while trying to control what we do with our bodies, our minds, our hearts.

And Teapublicans want us to give them even more control over us. They won't stop until the Archbishop is sitting right next to the Speaker Of The House in Congress - A mirror image of how it was in the Middle Ages in England. Conservatives are willing give to this organization that gets a free ride, but refuse to give, by way of taxes, ONE DOLLAR to set this country back on course.

Mean-spirited, hypocritical, selfish and hateful.

Have a nice day, y'all.

Corky actually thinks that Trickle Down Economics works, lol

It works for me I earn a good living servicing the rich by fixing their car.

Then pay attention to what each party is doing:

Democratic thought is FOR our country, FOR We the People! They believe that corporatoions are NOT people and should not be represented by those who are elected to represent US!

Republican thought is for Republlicans only. The Party-Over-Country Party. Their way or no way. The Xtian version of shira law.

Couldn't of said it better!

If you're that ignorant, maybe you shouldn't vote.

I agree - stay home, bubba.

Jack - were you referring to jimd or to anindividual? We could argue that the democrats are for bigger and bigger government without end and a complete lack of fiscal restraint or responsibility. That they are leveraging the future of the next 10 generations to keep the money train going. That the CRUSHING debt of this country is the biggest national security issue going. We could argue that the republicans are working toward fiscal accountability and a manageable sized government. We could also argue that now is not the proper time for fiscal restraint as we try to recover from this recession. We could also argue that while the republicans want a smaller government, they want that government to monitor and control every aspect of our lives. We could also argue that President Obama has had the opportunity to reduce the intrusion of government into the daily lives of the people but he has not done so and has, in fact, increased government surveillance of law-abiding, private citizens.

See, not so clear cut and I'm with jimd. They're all a bunch of yahoos and it is an embarrassment that this collection of mediocrity is the best we could come up with.

Joemike we could also argue the republicans are for bigger and bigger government without end and a complete lack of fiscal restraint or responsibility. If you look at the last republican administrations. The biggest national security issue is the debt that W started for us and Obama has been trying to stop. We can not argue that the republicans are working toward fiscal accountability and manageable sized government, because they never have. I agree that both the republicans and Obama have not done anything toward ending the surveillance of law-abiding private citizens. I see us moving toward more and more surveillance of citizens under the guise of "terrorism".

I just had to say the tea party might advocate for smaller government, but the republicans have yet to show that once they are in power they will reduce deficits and the size of government.

If there were more jobs there would be less people in need and those same people would be paying taxes go figure.

Less government means: Fire people, give less or take completely away from children, seniors and poor people. While you not indicate most corporations don't pay any taxes, GE = zero, The 1% are getting richer see last 30 years- 290% more income, corrupt congressmen and women, wall street selling worthless paper while driving the middle class to extinction.

But you want us to believe your solution of cut the government to zero will solve all our problems. Didn't we try to do that the last great recession? We lost millions of jobs. But to you that would be just fine as long as they don't touch your job. You know what they will touch your job.

its would be less and less people to buy your companies product or service. The more people you take out the middle class (those people who have income to buy products and services) the less revenue your company would get over time. Thus you are FIRED stupid

Jimd, I know how you feel and as you can see a lot of these people are blinded by their ideology. From my view there isn't much out there, One party can't seem to close their check book while the other for some reason wants to give all the breaks to the rich neither is sustainable. The President isn't as important as the Congress, that's where we are in need of people willing to work for the people and not their party.

Don't listen to what they say both sides will say anything to get elected watch what they do. Are they saying they're for the citizens rights but is that what they are doing? Are they for all citizens rights or only for the ones of the people on their side. When the liberals say they are for first amendment rights ask yourself how the kid in Midland,TX felt when he got a list of 15 phrases he wasn't allowed to say at his graduation. I don't think he felt he had any first amendment rights. Is this what you mean Individual because this is what this administrations DOJ has done?

Sorry Solution but you are wrong! You need to check some easily verifiable facts:

Obama Care just cut $500,000,000,000.00 (that's 500 billion) out of Medicare and no one has raised one loud whimper: Big government!

Clean or green energy costs at least 3 x's what fossil fuels cost. Do you want your bill to go up that much? Right now the government forces private utilities to eat the difference. America has enough clean natural gas to meet all our energy needs today: enough to fuel industry, cars, electricity generating plants and so...until there is a cost break through in solar-wind-tide- hydrogen etc. All regulated and prevented by: Big government!

GASOLINE: Google "U.S. pipelines and you will see dozens of pipelines already run similar routes to Keystone. We need oil, we need gasoline. As the price rises, everything we consume will go up with it. EVERYTHING! This pipeline argument is bogus, killed jobs and added to the price of gasoline. Big government!

Mortgage crisis regarding "sub-prime" loans which caused the financial meltdown. All banks were forced by the congressional regulation to make these loans (see Dodd-Frank-Kennedy bills - all documented) or loose their FDIC backing and operating licenses. Big government!

Wall Street Investment Banks: The bundling of these loans by investment banks into commercial banks portfolios was allowed by government changes to the commercial banking versus investment banking laws. See Dodd-Frank-Kennedy: Big government!

Corporate taxes: A simple tax code would eliminate the need for loopholes and all corporations would pay a simple % of profits. America's corporate tax code adds about 32% to the cost of every item made in America. This does not take into account that the average American worker makes 10 times what a Chinese worker makes and that cost is added on top of the products YOU buy). The same product made in China is marked up only 7%. Now, you do the math. Would you pay an extra 25% just to buy American? If so, just do it! Big government!

You exaggerate grossly in saying most corporation pay no tax. Even when they don't, every penny they pay out to employees is taxed. Most businesses are corporations from your local mom & pop grocery, restaurant, florist, coffee shop, veterinary clinics, hospitals and even churches are corporations. A corporation is a legal status.

As a small business owner, the Federal Tax code plus the new health care law forces me to hire attorneys and accountants just to tell me what I must do to open the doors and make a profit every day. This adds $1000's to my overhead and no one can tell me today what it will cost this year to cover Obama Care...cause no one knows! I'm afraid to hire anyone...it could bankrupt me. Big government!

Last recession: no we did not cut government - we increased it. The last recession was made worse by adding a "luxury tax" to boats and vacation properties. All our local boat builders (all corporations and blue collar workers) went bankrupt, some that had been around over a hundred years. The local construction industry (all corporations and blue collar workers) died. Local businesses such as hotels and restaurants suffered with the steep decline in business. Big government!

Try to add to the conversation with knowledge and truth, not just spin. It willl help heal America not destroy it.

Mortgage crisis regarding "sub-prime" loans which caused the financial meltdown. All banks were forced by the congressional regulation to make these loans (see Dodd-Frank-Kennedy bills - all documented) or loose their FDIC backing and operating licenses. Big government!ir bills

The mortgage crisis was not caused by banks making loans to poor people, who pay their bills, who are considered "subprime". You obviously have not read any reports as to why the mortgage crisis occurred. Banks were making 400k loans on only on a credit report. no proof of jobs, income, assets, only a beacon score. Banks and mortgage brokers committed fraud, switched forms on borrowers, increased rates, and basically lied to good people who wold have made their payments. . Greed controlled, and we had a melt down. Had Bush and Co enforced bank regulations in effect, this mess would not have occurred.

Your other points are likewise over simplified and or exaggerated, such as: "Federal Tax code plus the new health care law forces me to hire attorneys and accountants just to tell me what I must do to open the doors and make a profit every day. This adds $1000's to my overhead and no one can tell me today what it will cost this year to cover Obama Care...cause no one knows! I'm afraid to hire anyone. Hyperbole, in that if you are opening a business, you should hire an attorney to properly set up your entity. the same goes for an accountant. Looks great on paper though.

JIMND.

Perhaps you should vote based on haircut, then.

Lakesideguy,

Chris Sap doesn't want to know what President Obama did. He has closed that part of his mind to fox news. But we'll wait him out until someone tells him he has President Obama to thank for him getting his money back due to the consumer protection act. Or his son or daughter can be on his insurance to age 26, or credit card companies can't switch rates on him, or his wife should make the same pay as her coworkers do for doing the same job because its the law, or his son or daughter are protected against bullies, or why his light bill is going down due to the clean energy policies in place by President Obama. Dam I could go on and on.

But tell him to vote for mitt or san either one i would welcome in a general election.

The Supreme Court will decide if Obama has trounced the Constitution by his mandating that States, and therefore citizens and 'private' insurance companies, be forced to buy insurance dictated by Washington.

No where does the Constitution allow for the Federal Government to force U.S. citizens to buy anything. These things were left for the States to decide...hence Romney's Massachusetts plan was a state mandate, voted on by her citizens.

Once Obama Care takes hold, insurance companies will no longer have to compete in free-market environment, creating a monopoly within the industry. Want proof: look at the theft in the Medicare-Medicaid systems. Hundreds of billions are wasted every year.

With my 84 y.o. mother, they order a lung scan twice a year (nothing has shown up for 5 years), mammograms twice a year, full blood "panel" every 90 days and so on. Why - vast financial well just waiting to be tapped.

Even with private insurance, just visit your doctor and see how many needless tests they want to run just so they can charge the insurance company. Now that I pay my own medical costs, my doctor has cut out all the extra tests because he no longer has a free ticket to the vast reserves. Suddenly the need to "make sure I'm healthy" has disappeared. Preventative health care: BS!

Skeeter...."No where does the Constitution allow for the Federal Government to force U.S. citizens to buy anything. These things were left for the States to decide...hence Romney's Massachusetts plan was a state mandate, voted on by her citizens."
Ok... but the retired, with a certain income, have to pay for Medicare. Who would give them health insurance otherwise? That they could afford.

Go ahead and let Healthcare become a state funded option. Sure, that's the ticket. Sucks for you if you live in the poor states, because if they are not going to participate in a Federal plan - NO FED MONEY FOR YOU. Kind of like the states that would have left the drinking age below 21, ok, but no fed money for your for roads.

Not only do poor states need to back the Affordable Health Care Act - it is imperative that they do so for the benefit of their citizens - at the Federal level. You see, the better off and more populous states will have to subsidize them - just like we have to bail them out for their roadways, etc. now.

(We all know who they are, but I'll list a few - West VA, KY, TN, AL, SC, LA, MS - and FL has so many retirees yet such crummy service jobs, that they would benefit from a Federal back healthcare plan also - like a "medicare for all".)

I agree with you about Santorum. I do not believe that America is the leader of the free world. We (the vast majority) are close to slaves for the elite. In the free world, governments fear their citizens, in America, we fear our (corporate owned) government.

America is the only civilized nation in the world without Universal health care. We also have the greatest disparity of wealth in any civilized country. We rank 2nd in prison population, only China has more prisoners. Most of our prisons are for-profit. The elites of America pay little or no taxes. Every government function is being privatized so the wealthy can get wealthier, off of our taxes. Our old and disabled are expected to live far below the poverty line and have to decide on life-saving medicines (illegal to negotiate prices for Americans) or food. The wealthiest 400 people own more wealth than 2/3's of the population. Workers wages have decreased over the last 30 years while the elite "earn" about 4000x more. Our Unions that allowed us to collectively negotiate for pay, safety, hours, benefits, etc. are almost extinct. Our education system is terrible, yet we are afraid and fed so much propaganda (that used to be illegal) that we won't demand our RIGHTS. Land of the free?

For sure! I know quite a few occupiers, and most of them would love to get a job - if they could only find one! What is your plan, Ricky, to help them get one? Or are you just expecting them to "eat cake"?

Steve and wow what you think is so important. Obama as world leader follows Europe in Libya, ticks off allies Pakistan and Israel bows to Saudi King, presents some rather odd gift to the Queen, continues Bush policies, fails to negotiate with Republicans, continues increasing debt, solar power debacle,tax evasion by appointees, fast and furious, bailouts....

Think about it: Barack Obama, President of the Free World. I can't afford 4 more years of this!

The Demos backed down from doing away with the Bush "temporary" tax cuts. The Prez just got the Repubs to back down and allow extention of the payroll tax cut for Social Security.

What part of that is costing Skeeter money?

Regardless of which party would be elected in 2012, the Fed will continue to avoid constricting the economy - I hope there will be no QE3. Bernanke did his doctorate on the Great Depression, and while I don't agree with all the Fed has done, he did not want to see a repeat the actions of the 1930s that threw America into the Depression. Even if a Repub would be elected in 2012, which is doubtful, but IF - he would have little recourse than to follow the current path, and try to bring jobs home.

The Democratically controlled house and senate in Iowa passed every sweet law the NRA asked them to and it was signed by the Democratic governor. The Republicans comeback? Apparently they where discriminating agaisnt mentally ill citizens. If they could get a doctors slip saying they where now mentally stable they should get thier guns. Comparing glitter to a shooting rampage? Really? sheeesh. Of course the glitter thrower was arrested.

The party of reduced government is coming up with a law to make glitterbombs a felony assault. It is always worse to throw glitter at a republican for ideological reasons than it is to shoot a democrat because you are crazy. Just ask a conservative.

So now conservatives are afraid of glitter. Good lord I knew they were paranoid hysterics but glitter? Really? LMAO

Your liberal groups want to jam their agendas down the throats of every citizen. I remember when a rainbow bridge meant you were mourning your dogs passing. Now if you wear a muti color striped shirt you have someone hitting on you. Live your life however you want with my blessing but do not jam your lifestyle down my throat. Believe in nothing if you want but do not gag teenage kids because your virgen ears don't want to hear them speak that isn't the American way. And Sally I worked in a nightclub ever get that sparkle glitter in your eyes or mouth. It is made of metallic or plastic fragments not paper. It can cause permanent damage if it gets in your eyes.I'd be afraid of people who throw it at me too.

GO, OWS, GO !!

Larry...Do the math. You people need to stop acting like you are a minority of workers. There are over 200 million Americans in this country, only 8 million of them are unemployed. Stop with the "Pity Pot" routine.

There are more people working than neocons dare admit. If gives them a whole lot less to bitch about when they have to admit that more Americans for more than 2 decades are what Bush called, "Uniquely American" ...meaning they cobble together 1 full-time and at least 1 or more part-time jobs to make ends meet.

Last three words in the above sentence should be what neocons focus on. Why do Americans need to cobble jobs together just to make ends meet? Because they are being savaged by the debtmongers out there who look for any skankola way to rip Americans off. Start the bitching with the fearmongering Big Insurance. You can't go to the bathroom without some insurance hawkers bearing down on you to buy insurance.

Lose 35% of your annual income to HMO copays, hospital deductibles and prescription drugs and you have 65% of your income left to pay your rent or mortgage, property taxes, sales taxes, use taxes and let's not forget the biggest bite Big Oil takes. By the time you pay for food, clothing and housing, 5 or more utilities, gasoline and your insurance premiums, you're lucky to have enough left to rub two nickles together.

And the rich wonder what we do with our money? BS. They know what we do with it....we provide their wealth. It's about damn time they started paying their fair share of taxes. No more tax cuts, bailouts, exemptions, subsidies or the rest of the landfill of privileged deductions that help them pay less while our paychecks fill in the gaping holes their inequity creates.

At least use the term neoconservative correctly. You make yourself and the rest of the left nuts look bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

ewent:

actually, the US population has been over 300 million for some time now.

elliot: ewents label may not be exactly correct, but the other 95% of his post is spot on.

Lobo, tell that to the unemployed. 8.3%

ewent and find out after you paid all those premiums you're stuck with a $24K bill because they decided not to cover your treatment.

No, anybody but a Rep-obstructionist, or Tea-destroyers

Good for you, Barney - I see they let you out of the booby pen for a while!

anybody but obama? How about a Muslim born in Kenya?

Wow four responses three with name callers, priceless

Then why is he not working to give them an opportunity? Oh I forgot He's to busy trying to keep President Obama from another term!

Not really Jan, he kept referring to a "certain group" that has be left behind, he is basically saying "those people over there", he is still dividing the nation, he is still making his supporters seem, in their minds, better than "those people". He referred to "them" "not graduating" when in fact most Occupy people have a much higher education level and/or IQ than the average Rick Santorum supporter.

Santorum is a snide, smug, hypocritical, holier than thou con man who will, if given the opportunity, have "those people" (me and you) either indoctrinated or exterminated because he doesn't feel their is any room for anyone that is not just like him.

Damn it doug, if that is your name, don't you know the difference between their and there, you are starting to type like a santorum supporter, you know, one of "those people".

Grandpa before he can do anything to help them he has to get elected. Until then he doesn't have the power to help them. And I don't see the man with the power doing anything.

Damn Doug..Damn Doug you're you're confusing me confusing me

This crop of GOP candidates are know for stretching the truth and out and out lies. They know they can get away with it because too many people don't do ant research and vote based on sound bites.

Sad....

You know what they say, Ron. 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot....

Some people think they have the right to tell others what to do. When and why to have sex, not to use birth control, what God to believe in, etc.

When you have big $$$ and don't need a job, have no idea what's it like to hunt for a job, well, it's easy to tell someone else to go get one.

Don't tell me to pay for your birth control, buy it yourself if you want it. Nothing is free.

" ... Nothing is free. ... "

Huh. How did I get it so wrong?

I thought that America was the land of the "free". And then there was "free" speech. Oh and "freedom" of choice. Damn, and what about "freedom" of religion?

" ... Nothing is free. ... "?

So what's this Constitution, that the Right keeps talking waving in our faces, all about? Can't be "freedom" and being "free". Because Elliot just said so.

" ... Nothing is free. ... "

Except for people like Elliot, who are "free" to show their ignorance.

Huh, imagine that. Who would have thought. Damn.

I missed the part where dsb was saying someone has to PAY for birth control.

dsb was saying don't tell me what birth control I'm allowed to use. Or does that wreck your argument?

Conservatives only want freedom of religion if that religion is "Christian", you can be the biggest con man on the planet, C. Peter Wagner, John Crouch, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, etc, etc, etc........ but as long as you spew hate for the left while clutching your bible tightly the extreme right in this country will rally around you with a patriotic fervor unrivaled in recent history. You can beat your wife and kids, steal retirement money from the elderly, send dirty emails to underage boys, shoot your daughter in the head while selling your gun in church, murder thousands of innocent people in unjust wars, and spread hate till your hearts content as long as you claim to be a "Conservative Christian". But if you are a "godless liberal" then just try smoking a joint in the privacy of your own home and see what happens.

Wow... apparently NONE of you have read Obama's explaination of how the FREE birth control will be paid for. NO TAXPAYER MONEY is paying for it !!! It will be "paid for" out of INSURANCE COMPANY PROFITS ... "written off"...because they have intelligently deduced that the "cost" of providing FREE birth control is CHEAPER for them than the cost of other medical expenses associated w/pregnancy.

For those biblethumpers out there .... YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to dictate HOW anyone else should live their lives, what they should or should not think/believe or what kind of healthcare they are/are not entitled to or what decisions they can/cannot make about their OWN healthcare. NEWSFLASH : Your FAIRYTALE DELUSION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANYONE BUT YOU !!!! No one gives a rat's a$$ what the Catholic Church thinks, what the bat@!$%# evangelical taliban thinks...YOUR DOGMA ONLY APPLIES TO YOU ! YOU have absolutely NO right whatsoever to force your "beliefs" on the rest of society who DOES NOT SHARE THEM. As far as we're concerned your 'nonsense' is just that.... NONSENSE.

The Catholic church has duped it's followers into believing this "all life is God's Gift" BS for ONE SOLE REASON....keeping the church coffers filled w/tithes and the Rethuglicons have ONE SOLE REASON for duping their followers into believing this crap...more "dead soldiers" and more "poor ignorant low-wage slaves". NEITHER gives a good godd a m n if any of these kids are wanted, starving, abused, educated, clothed, sick, deformed, mentally ill, etc or how much their families have to suffer.

So are you saying that the insurance companies wont pass the cost down to all of their customers? Maybe that is why Obama opened that consumer protections board, to rob companies to buy votes.

Doug, so you know the heart of all conservatives, churches do more for the poor then Obama and people like you. You talk of closed minded, you need look no further then a mirror. As an Independent with equally conservative views, I could care less what or if a person is a Christian or any other religion. I find people like you from both sides of politics useless ponds of the system blindly following the party off the cliff

Right George from Wa nothing in this country is free there is no freedom of speech or religion in this country at this time if you're a christian. And at this point I'm not even free to vote in a local elections because Big Daddy won't let us hold one. Our local government officers terms of office end the first week in May. I don't know how things are where you live but here everybody, their sister and brother and their cousin run in local elecctions. You have to get 50% to be on the general ballot that doesn't happen with 3 republicans and 5 or 6 democrats running in the primary so there is always a runoff between the top 2 in each primary. So If Big Daddy lets us vote on 4/17 and the general election is the first week in May when do we have the runoff? We can't even change the date of an election down here without Big Daddy's permission.

Who's your Big Daddy? Gov. Rick Perry?

Zealot,

You feel that no one has a right to tell you what to do, but apparently YOU have the right to determine who's religious principles are valid.

And as usual, a lefty falls for the ruse; thinking that the insurance companies will pay for more and more proceedures, medicine etc associated with additional birth control coverage just out of the goodness of their respective hearts and will not raise premiums.

in reply to Beware_the_Religious_Zealot:

The road runs two way darlin!

For those non- biblethumpers out there .... YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to dictate HOW anyone else should live their lives, what they should or should not think/believe or what kind of healthcare they are/are not entitled to or what decisions they can/cannot make about their OWN healthcare. NEWSFLASH : Your FAIRYTALE DELUSION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANYONE BUT YOU !!!! No one gives a rat's a$$ what YOU think, what the bat@!$%# non-evangelical taliban thinks...YOUR DOGMA ONLY APPLIES TO YOU ! YOU have absolutely NO right whatsoever to force your "beliefs" on the rest of society who DOES NOT SHARE THEM. As far as we're concerned your 'nonsense' is just that.... NONSENSE.

nice cut and paste. The non-bible thumpers DON'T shout in a bullhorn on the street corner and tell people how to live so what's your point?