Santorum now replaces Newt as the new anybody but Romney (ABR) flavor of the month.

nisl ... Love the bumper sticker!

nisl---this cat lover wants to know what is it with the Republicans and dogs?

If the poll was taken through yesterday, then some of the participants had a chance to factor in the performances at CPAC and the straw ballot and still Romney doesn't do well. Guess he isn't severely conservative enough.

"Dog on car and Man on Dog:

Sweet nisl - and when you factor in Romney's flip-flops, they could also read:

"Dog on Man, Car on Dog", "Man on Car, Dog on Dog", "Dog on Car on Man on Dog".....

The bumper sticker rocks, nisl!

Where's PETA when ya' need 'em......

Pew has President Obama leading Romney by eight points, 52%-44%

^ This is the real news. So much for Romney's elect ability.

UAW: hahahahhahahahahahaha Romney will get the country back on track???? The DOW is almost at 13,000, the recovery is speeding up, and Boehner has just announced that the GOP is backing the payroll tax extension bill! Boehner, Cantor, and company have double crossed you robots---again! Wait until the severe conservative Romney will start his "push to the center" as we approach November. He'll sell you and the evangelical fundamentalists down the river so fast it'll make your head spin! hahahhahahahahha Romney will get the country back on track! hahahahahahahahaha The main question for November will be, "Are you now or have you ever been a registered member of the Republican Party?" hahhahaha

And the Republican Party still struggles with identity. They simply cannot decide who they are: Corporate greed, read that Romney, or taliban like, read that Santorum.

They seem a bit schizophrenic to me.

nisl, great bumper sticker.

If Romney were to select Rick Santorum as VP, he might as well just go to the Cayman Islands and visit his money.

newday: They're finding out what the RINO's have known for years, namely, the American voter will not vote for extremists in the general elections. They got away with it in 2010 because so few people voted. It won't happen again in November. When Romney makes his push to the center later this year to appeal to the populace, the right wing, both secular and evangelical, will be sold down the river post haste! Also, the TEA Party in the House seems to like their Congressional positions, and want to be be re-elected. Let's see what happens now that the house has voted in favor of the Payroll Tax Extension bill. What a bunch of maroons.............. I will not vote for ANY Republican running for ANY office in my state and I'll use my education, my wealth, my sweat, and my influence to encourage others to join in this patriotic effort!

I used to be Republican, TJefferson, when they were fiscally conservative, and socially progressive. Yeah, that was a LONG time ago.

I won't vote Republican again until they rid themselves of the influence of the fringe right wing that has taken over the party.

Which means, I will never vote Republican again.

Hahaha, they all suck equally, yeah we know. And if Gingrich can hang in until the southern states, then it will be a tie between him and Santorum. Will Gingrich run negative ads against Santorum, hmmm now it's a more interesting discussion.

Interesting question: if Romney should pull the nomination out of the fire he is in, how DOES he move anywhere toward the center?

I don't think it is possible any more, even though that used to be the conventional wisdom.

With dumb and dumber as President and Vice President you Liberals don't have much to brag about, the Republican candidates aren't far behind.

Newday,

I won't vote Republican again until they rid themselves of the influence of the fringe right wing that has taken over the party.

It is coming, maybe not this year but it is coming...

(I am still hopeful)

newday: I voted for many Republicans in the past, including Nixon (2nd time-I regret it now), Ford, Reagan, George H. W. Bush and many Senators and Representatives. I wouldn't vote for a Republican now for ANY office. My wife and her sister belonged to a family of life-long Republicans. My wife wrote three hot letters to the RNC in 2008, and stormed down to city hall and changed her registration to Democrat and so did her sister! My wife is even more outraged by the Republican Party than I---if that is possible. There are hundreds of thousands of people like us.

newday -- I don't know. With the right-wing Echo Chamber and Cone of Silence now, it is still kind of like the old days without national coverage when candidates went around saying something different in each state or to each audience and never getting busted for it. In the general election, will the GOP/TP nominee be criticized by FOX Noise for anything, even for tacking to the center? FOX will just omit it, like they always do when the truth is inconvenient.

And what is the center anymore for Teapublicans now? It is still right-wing--the argument Romney makes about himself, really. Come on, President Obama is a moderate and they call him a "socialist."

wlee- you are clearly talking the GOP when you put out "dumb and dumber." And, all the while we didn't think it could get any dumber than McCain/Palin. But, as usual, the GOP works to disprove that! Let's see - Romney (where am I today so I can determine where I stand on issues); Santorum (I just really don't like women); Gingrich (I really LIKE all women - as long as they're not my wife!).

UAW, T.Jefferson noted the joke that is your notion that Romney will get this country back on track. How will that happen when his tax plan adds trillions to the deficit and debt by 2015? It raises taxes on the middle and low income earners while giving more tax breaks to the rich.

TJefferson, I used to be a republican, too, until Ronald Reagan came along. I voted both sides of the aisle but that "Reagan democrat" terminology for me and many of my friends meant we became democrats.

I think a Romney/Santorum ticket could just be the team to make Obama a one and done president. Their skill as leaders would also help get this country back on track....

Yes... because that worked out SO WELL the last time a fairly moderate Republican picked an extremists religious nut to be his running mate.

But by all means, try it again. I'd love a good laugh.

newday ... he has to tack back to center to have any chance with independents. The question then will be if the far rights's hatred of the president will overcome their feeling of being deserted, and if the independents have been paying any attention to this clown show.

Jody,does Obama have a plan?Yes,does he even have one?No budget,no plan.No plan,no backup plan.No,Democrats don't have a plan,but to sell us down the river.You bunches of takers will help that.Yep,I'll remember that when you takers come to take mine.Good luck with that "plan".

My wife is even more outraged by the Republican Party than I---if that is possible. There are hundreds of thousands of people like us.

TJefferson,

Count me in that number too.

Lifelong Republican that was turned away when they pushed Palin on us in the last election. It was the first time in my entire life I voted Dem.

Now, 3 years later, I am completely disgusted with what the GOP has become. With the Tea Party, extreme right religious freaks, and their obsessive need to tell everyone what to do with their own personal lives... I doubt I will ever vote for them again.

Until they get rid of the Tea Party and every one of their religious extremists, they will not have this vote.

I believe it was Rudy Giuliani who said the "GOP should get the heck out of people's bedrooms". I second that.

Santorum is trying to set up a theocracy !

Jody: Good for you! All it takes is a formal education to analyze what has become of the Republican Party today. It is a sad end for one of America's once great reform parties. The only people they attract are self-centered, greedy, angry, people who blame other people for their failures and miserable station in life.

Their leadership has made the Party the political arm for corporate America and FOX is their Ministry of Propaganda! Then, they scream "liberal" (as if that is a bad word), socialist, communist, Maoist, Stalinist at the President and turn around and nominate Romney---one of the most liberal members among the RINOs! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez........How stupid do they think even their rank and file is??!!?? And now, Boehner and Cantor are telling the people that they're voting for the payroll tax extension bill after demonizing the President for his courage to propose the idea. I'm glad to payroll tax extension will likely become law. Our working classes need it.

Jody, We just have to change the mentality that increasing "taxes lowers the deficit". I have concerns that taxing our countries investment income more will just drive those investments to other countries. Let's leave that money in the hands of people with better qualifications to invest it. I doubt Mitt Romney would have thrown $500 Million away on Soylent Green.......

Indie: I agree with everything you said. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are outraged by what was has become of a once great American reform political party. The Republican Party now counts fewer than 20% of the population.

If the Party wants to survive, it MUST move away from a southern, regional, political party. (By the way, the news reported yesterday that the KKK is openly recruiting in Arkansas! So, much for the BS that racism is dead in America. Those people have computers and log into these comments sections too, you know. How many votes from that element do you think the President will receive???!!?? hahahaha)

My first (and 2nd) votes were for Nixon; I walked the damned precincts and handed out literature, for cryin' out loud! These whack-jobs who call themselves nowadays are nothing but Birchers on steroids and meth. Just listen to their reactions about the budget announcement: the GOP is the gang of new Hoovers. All 500,000 of them. Nobody who survived the last century with even a tiny bit of brain cells can even consider supporting these deluded morons.

To all who responded: Interesting points. Egilman: I used to hope that the party would rid itself of the Shaflys and Cantor and that ilk, but I don't think it will now.

TOG: I am not sure that tacking to the center as conventional wisdom works any more. If you listen to Santorum, he says that is the problem. I'm not sure where the center would be at all for anyone who considers themselves conservative. I'm sure it is far right of where I am.

TJefferson: I was invited to Nixon's inaugural, that's how involved in the party I was. Became disillusioned with it because of Nixon, and finally decided it left me with Reagan. Probably will never vote for another one, unless someone stands up to the far right.

TruePatriot: I often wonder if there is a way to measure the damage done to the country by Fox "news"? There must be a way to quantify it.

Seeking Sanity, apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension, I put the Republican candidates in the same life boat. I'm waiting for a decent candidate from either party, but at the rate this country is going I don't think I'll be around to see it.

UAW Pleeeeeeeease..........Dream Ticket ! Obama's dream ticket ! The republicans can't decide who they don't want the most ! The independents and others can't stand any of them.

Looks like the GOP ticket is going to get stomped, "severely !"

UAW Pleeeeeeeease.....Romney already invests his money in other countries.

So I am taking it you like the idea of a 15% tax cap for those able to manipulate their income into "carry interest" ?

UAW: you said " We just have to change the mentality that increasing "taxes lowers the deficit"" What is your solution, "eliminating taxes to eliminate the deficit ?"

As a historical measure, federal income taxes, as a % of anything, are lower than they have been in over 70 years, and have been for the last 3 decades. Yet, for some reason, the employment rate has steadidly declined while those tax rates have declined. The fact is that income tax rates on the wealthiest americans and on corporations have ZERO impact on whether a US based business will do business in the US or hire people.

The only thing which will spur the economy is demand. The only way to improve demand is to put people to work. A government can increase demand by having really big projects.

The problem with the GOP is that they have decided to have two wars and no payments. During every war in every country, the war is paid for by an increase in taxes, until George W. Bush took office. He decided to fund the war off budget. The cost of the war was not included in the annual budgets, yet the debt increased because of it.

It is time to pay for the GOP wars and the only way to do it is with taxes.

I would not vote for Rick Santorum.

Remember the H bomb Goldwater TV ad or the Willie Horten TV ad? The day after Santorum wins the nomination for president or VP the ad will be a typical scumbag looking guy (the rapist) side by side with a beautiful young 18 year old girl. He will say I raped her and got a seven year prison sentence. She will say I got a ten year prison sentence for murder because I had a abortion after I was raped by him. The screen will fade then Santorums quote about no abortion even in cases of rape will come up on the screen. The election will be over immediately.

As long as either Sant. or Romn. are able to elequantly and accurately describe tHE total inept FAILURE of Obama over the last 4 years.....

EITHER WILL WIN ON JUST THE FACTS!!

TO: UAW Pleeeeeeeease who wrote:

"The way news is biased against Romney by the Liberal Press..."

It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with anyone or anything "liberal".

This is the REPUBLICAN Primary, where REPUBLICANS pick their nominee.

It is REPUBLICANS who don't like Romney, and they did like him it wouldn't matter at this point where liberals like him or not.

For the record, I don't like Romney, the Jobs Cremator, either.

Obama / Biden 2012

The way news is biased against Romney by the Liberal Press

That's the funniest thing I've read all day. Before frothy won 3 states and derailed his campaign the "Liberal Press" was all but ready to declare Mittens the uncontested winner of the primaries.

nisl,

Love the bumper sticker!

"Dog on Car and Man on Dog: 2012"

I can't wait till dyslexic evangelicals get a look at it.

Just what the heck is going on here? The Republicans want to ban contraception... this sounds like something out of the 13th century NOT the 21st.

They literally have gone nuts!

I'm sorry I have to say this , but you repubs are sooo freakin dummmmb. and don't go thinking I'm a dem.. VOTE RON PAUL! dummies....

I see the terrorist branches of the Democrats and Republicans never fail to appear on Newsvine.

If Obama wins, I expect to hear some serious boo hoo crying from the right wing radicals, and likewise if Romney is elected (I really can't imagine anyone else having a chance) I fully expect the Obama lovers to be making a new river of tears in the United States.

You radicals better not let me down after the drama that you post every day. I want some quality breakdowns from the losers.

It's not a matter of not liking Romney - it is a matter of them liking someone else more. He has been consistently polled as the second choice of over half of those republicans that didn't have him as first choice.

I had rather see Ron Paul win the nomination and lose to the democrats than to see romney win. I'll be hanged if I can see any difference between bush, obama and romney.

You probably don't care what we independents think, but our votes do determine the winner.

Add my husband to the droves of Repbulicans that have left the dark side. I've always been pretty much a Dem although I have been known to vote for a Repub. I look at the candidates and for me the Dems usually fit the bill.

My husband has always been a bit more conservative socially (lapsed Catholic I guess) but very conservative in fiscal matters. He was pretty much set to vote for McCain. But the McCain moved even farther right and picked Palin. My husband was so angry. Now, he's about the same as the posters here and other folks we talk to. The Republicans have moved so far right it's scary. He says he didn't leave the party, it left him.

I think the last election was the first time in almost 30 years that our votes haven't cancelled each other out. This year, we're actually donating $$ to the President and working on the campaign.

I'll be honest, this crop of Republicans scare me. Way, way, way too much bible thumping for my tastes.

Jody, Iowa

UAW, T.Jefferson noted the joke that is your notion that Romney will get this country back on track. How will that happen when his tax plan adds trillions to the deficit and debt by 2015? It raises taxes on the middle and low income earners while giving more tax breaks to the rich.

It's not just the rich getting more tax breaks, and the poorest paying double what they pay now in taxes with Romney's plan. Financial wonk Ezra Klein did a great review with other budget experts. First is the % of GDP in spending versus cuts, and then where the revenue comes from, and cuts that would be needed to balance the budget.

The % of GDP for the government to properly function cannot fall below 20% (and is best at 22%). President Obama's budget is about 18%, well below what is needed and actually Bush-like. Teapublicans propose even lower, with Romney's plan at only 17%. In order for Romney to balance the budget with only that much revenue, every entitlement would have to be completely eliminated -- In part because Romney says he wants defense spending to stay the same (and I'd argue if a Republican were to be elected, they would increase defense spending by starting new wars).

On the topic of defense spending, folks are disappointed that there isn't as much savings in the president's budget from ending the Iraq war. That's because we still pay for a large standing army whether they are on the front line or not, and because we have become more reliant on contractors (think Haliburton), which cost two to three times more than regular troops. And if the standing army is reduced too quickly the unemployment rate will shoot back up.

President Obama's plan is better, of course, because he increases revenue by ending loopholes and requiring a minimum tax on millionaires. We really need to let the Bush tax cuts expire for everyone, but once again, the financial guru recommended this be held off a little longer until the economy improves more.

But anyone who supports Romney or other Teapublican plans are nuts. It's going to take a multi-pronged and phased approach to balance the budget while preventing the economy from tanking. But Romney is lying when he says he'll balance the budget.

So far, everyone responding is responding on emotion and not thinking things through clearly. That is dangerous when any decision of importance is being considered. For example: "Republicans want to ban/outlaw birth control" I have never read that, nor heard it as a policy statement. What I have heard, and agree with completely, is that I am not obligated to pay for somebody else's birth control, just as I shouldn't have to pay for their tummy tuck, botox, viagra......

Balanced budget (doesn't mean squat)-We don't have and haven't had any budget for over 3 years to compare anything with. Just because somebody puts a balanced budget sheet down on paper, does not mean that is how it will play out in the real world. It doesn't promise that during a given period of time, the government will not go over budget (Of course they will, by threatening each and every American with potential cuts to their pet programs)

As for the poor paying double taxes: Simple Math! 2 X 0 is still zero. Stop trying to convince us that the poor are being harassed. We have way too many people in our country exempt from any form of taxation, and another huge chunk not paying taxes because they have no income and no jobs....if we got everyone back to work, and everyone paid something toward taxes, then the financial picture would be more accurate. I can agree that corporate entitie have not paid fairly, probably because lobbyists in Washington have been extremely good at protecting the interests, but this crosses party lines and there are just as many big business types profitting from democratic patronage and republican.

Five more years of the Socialist/Marxist Oblabber Mouth aka Obama?

God Help what's left of this country!

gloria: I see you're back pushing the tired old BS. Keep it up! Have you seen the House has voted to pass the payroll tax extension bill??!?? Why do you think they did it after demonizing the President for proposing such a thing??!!?? hahahahahaha They see their approval rating by the American voter is at 10%--that's far lower than the approval rating for the IRS and a used car sales person. hahahahahahahahaha At least the working classes will get a little relief from the payroll tax extension. I'm glad to see them caving in and leaving you pitiful robots sucking air!! hahahaha

TJeff, and where is that tax break coming from, that's right your SS which wasn't suppose to be touched better hope you have a retirement fund.

TJefferson....Gloria didn't get the memo. ...still stuck on name calling since she can't address the issues!

Sad, really sad!

...and wlee.....where do you think those tax cuts for the 1% of 1% comes from, in addition to the oil subsidies, loop holes for corporations...where does it all come from?

wlee: Are you serious??!!?? The DOW is near 13,000 up from the 6,000 and dropping like a shot in Janurary 2009! I am retired and am living off my investments. The interest alone on my investments keeps my income at the same level as it was before I retired. Are you serious??!!??

Gloria...I do think, "God [will] help what's LEFT of this country," as the extreme RIGHT is marginalized.

"Hate" has never been a sustainable social construction in which free people choose to organize themselves into civil society.

Thank God for multi-culturalism!

Ric: What's the matter with you?? I'm the success you and your ilk have been shouting to the heavens about! I thought you'd be pleased to meet a successful, well educated, person, and now I find that you're putting me down. Is there no consistency in your thought??!!??

WLee: When Social Security was started, the account was NOT supposed to be touched; however, Johnson changed that to allow our wonderful politicians to access the monies for their "pork" projects. So, Social Security is NOT untouchable as it stands now. If the politicians would ever pay back the IOUs they owe to this fund....we'd have plenty of money to go around for many years; however, I don't see the likelihood of that happening!

Tjeff, and what did you invest in? You never answered my SS problem. Chilled before you lambast me, I too believe the rich need to go back to their original tax rate and no subsidies for oil or loopholes so what's your point?

All we have to do is revert to the tax rates of the 80's or even the 1990's, and we'd easily erase the debt & deficits within a few years. Have the uber-wealthy pay at least the same % in taxes that I do for crying out loud!!

[And you can ditch the "job creator" argument. If I've got $10 million to invest, I'm not going to stick it under my mattress or spend it instead of invest it if my (capital gains) tax rate goes from 15% back up to 20% or 25%.]

wlee: You asked me what securities I hold. Well, I have land, bonds, stocks, and separate 401k's. My wife also has investments that nearly equal mine. I'm glad to hear that you agree the wealthy should be taxed at least at the Clinton era tax rates. SS is secure as is until 2035. Those people who believe it is about to collapse are dead wrong, and further, may well be pushing an agenda based on a lie. SS is currently not in any danger of collapse.

Conservatives would have stopped the Internet from happening. It's common knowledge that the conservative Republican party hates the National Science Foundation. It was the NSF that made the Internet happen, they had the vision to open the door. None of this Internet would be here if it was up to the GOP. http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ii_nsfnet.htm

July 1, 1956. The Steve Allen Show, New York City. "As Elvis rehearsed for an appearance on The Steve Allen Show, national media buzzed with backlash against Elvis's hip-swinging performance on Milton Berle's show just a few weeks earlier. Conservative critics called Elvis a "disciple of the devil."

Conservatives fear a free society, trying to control what people do... whether it's in Iran or the USA! Conservatives are bad for America.

For Oppression Vote Ayatollah Rick For President!

TO: UAW Pleeeeeeeease who wrote:

"The way news is biased against Romney by the Liberal Press..."

It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with anyone or anything "liberal".

This is the REPUBLICAN Primary, where REPUBLICANS pick their nominee.

It is REPUBLICANS who don't like Romney, and they did like him it wouldn't matter at this point where liberals like him or not.

For the record, I don't like Romney, the Jobs Cremator, either.

Obama / Biden 2012

It was the NSF that made the Internet happen, they had the vision to open the door.

Actually, it was a DoD ARPA agency that made the Internet itself happen, but NSF helped it become a public service. DARPA funded the research to develop and deploy TCP/IP. The whole thing is a solid rebuttal to the idiotic argument that government doesn't create jobs. Of course it does.

Lots o' name calling here. But no-one seems to be touting any accomplishments of the President? Good luck there.

If Santorum is the GOP candidate I think I will leave that part of the ballot blank. We don't need a social conservative as President. I am okay with Romney he is probably center right like most Americans on social issues.

Good for Obama and USA. Santorum will virtually guarantee a win for Obama. With Romney it could be somewhat a fight. But with Santorum or Gingrich its going to be a cakewalk.

chilled wrote:

"TJefferson....Gloria didn't get the memo. ...still stuck on name calling since she can't address the issues!

What, and the host of Obama supporters on this board are just innocent examples of knights fighting honorably in shining armor I bet? In fact, Obama himself officially endorsed the dung-fest with his own brand of name-calling since he started the whole "America held hostage by Republicans" mantra. Let's see now, all you need to do is scan a few of Newsvine's political boards to turn up all the classy, honorable names slung at every turn by Obama voters towards the other side.

Rethuglicans

Rethugs

Repugs

Teabaggers <--- (A publicly offensive term which seemingly gets anyone lambasted if it's directed at anyone but conservatives for their political beliefs or otherwise; directed @ someone like Obama would generate cries claiming the epitome of racism, though the term has no discernable connection in the pejorative with regard to race.)

Terrorists

Hostage-takers

Nazis

Re-nazi-cans

And the list goes on. But I make my point clear enough with these examples. If you really wish to be taken seriously while preaching honor from the rhetorical pulpit, at least exhort the most rabid slingers to wipe off the dung from their own sessions as well.

What is offensive about using "teabaggers," the name they picked for themselves? I always give them the respect of using it. It works on so many levels.

You obviously know nothing of the history leading up to the Revolutionary War and the origins of this country, else you would understand the rhetoric of the "Boston Tea Party", why a modern political party elected to bear it as a political affiliation, and the inherent insult "teabaggers" has become.

Perhaps you are smarter than you let on and have full understanding of all that I have asked and explained. In which case, you are just trying to bait an argument, thus lending creedence to my point of what constitutes a caustic, politically unproductive dung slinger.

I hope Insanitorium gets the nomination. That will absolutely ensure the President Obama will be re-elected.

Hey, and if insanitorium gets elected (ROFL) then we can ditch birth control, abortion at any cost, only religious witnesses are allowed who swear on the bible, we can become a theocracy, just like IRAN.

Obama 2012

Is it any wonder ?

Mittens Rob-us-blind Flip Flop,is not a liberal or a conservative the 1%'er actuallu 0.006% er CORPERTE RAIDER and one time governor of Liberal Mass but now arch conservative is a wishy-washy, flip flopping spineless politician without any core convictions, principals or believes a man who will say or do anything to get elected telling one crowd one thing and another crowd another. You simply can’t trust this guy to tell you the truth.

It looks like the American people are having the same response to Mitt that Mitt's former dog did RUN from this boob

Yeah. How could I possibly know ANYTHING about the Revolutionary War? Hmmm, let's see, could it be because one of my ancestors fought in it, was an Aide to Washington, which makes me eligible for the DAR? Can't be bothered, though I have the papers necessary to join, and many of the women of my family are DAR. That little flirtation they had with racism is off putting.

And that is exactly why the "teabaggers" must be the "teabaggers". One cannot give the name of heroes to scum. Plus, the teabaggers are the antithesis of the heroes who dumped the tea in the Harbor. (Yep, my relative, ol' John, from Ireland was there too.) See, the Boston Tea Party was protesting the monopoly of the East India Tea Company. The "teabaggers" love them some corporate slavery.

So perhaps the guy that doesn't know the history of the country is YOU, unoriginal.

nisl,

Love your bumper sticker. Can't wait till all the dyslexic christian conservatives see it.

"Dog on car and Man on Dog: 2012"

Just what we need, another 4 years of Obummer, when are you libs going to understand our country needs help. Both the Dems and Repub have caused this mess, neither one is worth being in office. Both sides seem to be keeping the same retoric going, "MY MAN IS BETTER THAN YOUR MAN" truth is none of them care about this country and that includes the senate and congress, Vote for none of the above and send a message. I doubt we could get that to happen.

The irony here is that so many are slamming Romney for being a "flip-flop", but I've seen several issues in the last two years taht Obama is becoming quite a flip-flop on too.

The whole "flip flop" bull needs to stop being thrown into the political debate thing.

Didi,

What you wrote is simply false. When the SS Act became law in 1935 it was always intended that excess funds in the trust account would be used to purchase treasuries--the law requires this. Every SS operational surplus was converted to an IOU, and the cash the Treasury got in return was used to increase governmental spending beyond what other taxes would allow. In short, the SS law was always a bad idea.

To those who adore Obama (or any politician for that matter),

We get what we deserve. If you want Obama for another four years we will deserve the consequences for him being president. If he is elected then it will be the unfortunate fact that in 8 years as president he will have added more to the national debt than every president in US history COMBINED. This includes Mr. Bush, the man you all claim to hate for spending too much and causing this economic mess. Weird, don't you think, that spending which you claim caused the mess must be magnified three, four, or even five times, in order to solve the problem? Try, please try, to make some economic sense out of this.

Worse, in spending just so far in three years an ADDITIONAL three to four trillion dollars more than Bush-level spending would have produced we have only been able to see GDP increase to a level which is still below the rate of inflation (this alone should shock you), and we have been unable to reach the employment levels that existed prior to the spending spree. What does all this add up to? We are stealing from our future so as to live beyond our means today, and the change in economic activity isn't enough to cover the cost incurred to create it--we are becoming less wealthy because of this president and his party.

Enjoy, please, your bread and circus.

I am just wondering who gets to pay for this massive Obamney Care package. The 1% I hope. I don't want to even go there as a 99%. Living on SS right now I can't afford any new or old taxes. I just hope everyone goes to work so they can support me. Thanks

Original_Thinker553

chilled wrote:

"TJefferson....Gloria didn't get the memo. ...still stuck on name calling since she can't address the issues!

What, and the host of Obama supporters on this board are just innocent examples of knights fighting honorably in shining armor I bet? In fact, Obama himself officially endorsed the dung-fest with his own brand of name-calling since he started the whole "America held hostage by Republicans" mantra. Let's see now, all you need to do is scan a few of Newsvine's political boards to turn up all the classy, honorable names slung at every turn by Obama voters towards the other side.

Rethuglicans

Rethugs

Repugs

Teabaggers <--- (A publicly offensive term which seemingly gets anyone lambasted if it's directed at anyone but conservatives for their political beliefs or otherwise; directed @ someone like Obama would generate cries claiming the epitome of racism, though the term has no discernable connection in the pejorative with regard to race.)

Terrorists

Hostage-takers

Nazis

Re-nazi-cans

And the list goes on. But I make my point clear enough with these examples. If you really wish to be taken seriously while preaching honor from the rhetorical pulpit, at least exhort the most rabid slingers to wipe off the dung from their own sessions as well.

• 3

• !

What? the GOP wants to be a protected minority now, (you folks are the minority and will find out that the people will reject your way of thinking in November.

Also, we're called--Lib, Libs, Libtards, Democraps, tax and spend liberals--endless list, so don't whine about the descriptive names. It's the way for people to get a check mark by their name when they type the words. President Obama is a centrist, not a liberal. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is a Liberal and Kucinick of Ohio is a Liberal.

I'm a 61 y/o and I've never seen this poor of offering by the GOP in my life. Sorry--the Tea Party is over. This country has to balance cuts with increased taxes to get out of this hole. For starts, 30% flat tax on everyone above the poverty line--no exemptions. Budget surpluses would appear and they should go directly toward paying down the national debt.

and I thought rabbits were stupid!

Original Thinker -- Many people know the history behind the Revolutionary War. The line, "No taxation without representation" at the time applied to the colonists' uprising against unfair taxation. That's a radical idea, not a conservative idea. Today, "no taxation without representation" applies to the middle class, not today's so-called tea party. The wealthy have plenty of representation in Congress, especially by the Republicans in the House, but the middle class does not. The wealthy really have nothing to protest, except the fact that they have to pay taxes at all. Any of today's so-called tea partiers who aren't wealthy are merely being used by the wealthy for propaganda purposes, against their own best interests, i.e., not too bright.

I guess then there would be plenty of natural gas fracturing...uh yay...sarcasm.

to justoneguy - you know it doesn't take rocket science to google. Here you go!

http://www.democratichub.com/obama-administration-accomplishments.aspx?o=pv&gclid=CN-I56G4nK4CFULe4AodDQgwpw

What have the Greedy Obtsructionist Party done EXCEPT lie, make false baseless accusations, whine, complain, deny, filibuster every proposal made by Obama and the Dems??? The GOP have no plan!!! Where are the jobs these hypocrites promise in 2010?? I'd like the right wing to wake up and vote off Parrotface McConnell, Cantor, and Orange Boehner from their states.

And for Sanatorium?! Cheeesus!! I hope ALL women stand up and NOT vote for this closet Taliban! He'd have us wearing burka's if he's got the chance!

I think what people don't realize about what happened at Johnson's time was that There was the Federal budget and the Social Security Budget. What was done at Johnson's time was combine the two for a third number called "Total Budget" This is a heinous thing, because the Social Security surpluses began hiding the Federal budget Deficits. Not only that, but it made a great partisan tool to slamb the others side by using which number favored their position at the moment.

Prove the Mayans Right!
Vote Santorum/Palin 2012

Hey Gloria Fabriketchy!! It is interesting that you are ensnared by these two snake oil salesmen, MittTaxPittanceRommel and The Vomitorium. Here is something of education for you girl.......

Prez O is smart. He doesn't have to seriously campaign; Just let these RepublicanCrimeCartelThugClowns go public with their unacceptably criminal behavior, and Voila!!!!!

There they are!!!: All TV'd Up! Like Dracula, Frankenstein and The WolfMan; MittTaxPittance Rommel, THEGangrene and, last BUT NOT in the least, The WolfManVomitorium! YESSSSSS!!!!! First off is DRAC: aka MittTaxPittanceRommel, Who will START A WAR WITH Iran, And A very Profitable War for his RepublicanCrimeCartelCorporateMasters AT THAT!! The Count was "nice enough" to expose his taxes!! Hmmm...Let Me See Now...Drac paid 13% on $42,000,000 income EEEZZZZ MONEY: About 5million AND!!! WE American Taxpayer Victims PAID The Count's REMAINING $7,800,000 Tax Liability!!!! Thanks for SUCKING US Dry Drac!!! AND Aren't We "LittlePeople" Thrilled that The Count is nice enough to Let US have the Honor of Paying His Taxes!! He WILL ALLOW Even, the Poor, Whom HE HAS STATED He "DOES NOT CARE ABOUT" To coughUp his Tax Liability!; 'Long as they got A BloodyJob with deductions Drac can get his FANGS into their BloodMoney as small as it might be!
Then There is Frankenstein, err...THEGangrene who, with his department store mannequin "Other Half", will turn to Destructive Rage at the drop of a wrong word or moment!!! EGADZ, This SelfEntitled Creature of Pleasure will Start A War for his RepublicanCorporateMasters AnyWhere, AnyHow, AnyWay, EVEN On The Moon!, as long as there is profit and Franky gets a stipend from it!!! ANYTHING TheGangrene Touches will Putrify and Rot like what is left of OUR AmericanBodyPolitic!!! Watch Franky TRY to Come alive with "lightening" speed at the RepublicanNationalCrimeCartelConvention!!!
Now Comes The WolfMan Vomitorium... What Can be said!! Such a Goot'Lookin'Boy! Ooh Facime! What A Face!! how could he do Anything Unsavory!!! BUT When The CORPORATE SYMBOLS rise in his eyes TheVomitorium begins his hungry and Very Hairy Growling for American Taxpayer's Blood!!!!
Yes!! THERE is your victim Wolfy!! Go and Savage It WolfMan with BloodLust Fangs and All! Our American UniversalHealthCare System!! All of OUR Allys have it, EVEN the TowelHeads Have A NationalHealthCareSystem!, This Political Beast Savaged and ALSO Struck down OUR Bill for AnAmericanNationalHealthCareSystem!!! Then, when The Killing Is Over, Out Steps The 'A nica'Boy Vomitorium; Ooohh!! How CleanCut!! Yes And so are His savage sever wounds on OUR AmericanHealthCareBill!!!!Brother And Sister American Putting these guys In Power is Having Dracula Guard our BloodBanks!!! You Saw What the Count Did......

Chilled, smokin' up again?

where do you think those tax cuts for the 1% of 1% comes from, in addition to the oil subsidies, loop holes for corporations...where does it all come from?

You're either implying that everyone should just hand over their total earnings to the government or you don't know what the tax code is. Which is it?

Rich,

What you don't understand is that Bush spending was all on his war mongering cronies. All of those no bid contracts and all that money spent on the wars was going into the pockets of his uber-rich buddies from the skull and bones.

President Obama, while spending more money, maybe, is spending it on the middle and low income people of this country. Bush gave taxpayer money to the wealthy, Obama is giving it back to the poor and for this, you idiots call hime a socialist .

Responce to job1: ABO

you must be one that watched the grammies and whitey houstons death.

i see your priorities, and that aint good.

they say the whart house paints a rosy picture.

they make the numbers look good. just to keep the lemmings

if you got any scence, which i doubt, i'd say ABO

in other terms, no more bummer.

tom, ain't is not a word, its wart not whart, its sense not scence, and Obama is pulling away from them all in the polls. As long as the economy keeps improving, Obama will win. The circus that has been the GOP primary has been particularly brutal with a shortage of candidates that can even make their own party get out to the polls. Romney has a better shot that Santorum, but both are doomed if the economy trend keeps improving. All of the candidates have alienated women in some fashion, Santorum being the worst offender, unfortunately the tea party base is too ignorant to realize that to win the general election you need women and independents.

I still think Ron Paul's going to get it, unless he gets caught in some sex scandal with a cougar. Betty White keeps your hands off him ! Obama'S latest scandal is that he is an alien from another planet, and he was hatched , not born. Mr. Obama show us the egg shell. These new detractors are called '' Hatchers '.

I am starting to think this may end up going to the convention with no one having enough delegates and they will end up throwing up someone like Christie or Jeb Bush. Although I question the wisdom of putting another Bush up there, its a little soon after the last Bush disaster.

Santorum is a nice guy, he was my Senator so, I know a bit about his record. He lost re-election, as an incumbent, by 18% of the vote. Why? Because he is stupid as many Pennsylvanians know.

Tom, if you really are from Texas please stop posting. Too many people already think most of us are uneducated buffoons. You inane posts are just proving their point.

Or, perhaps you aren't from Texas and are just trying to do a bad impression. You succeeded, it's really bad.

"Rick Santorum has failed to qualify for the IN ballot" in addition to Virginia!! What a bunch of losers and jokers!! And this man is expected by some to be able to be President??

Source: http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-republican-primary-schedule/

Hello Phine! I am thinking that Huntsman knew when he was licked. Evidently Dad had spent enough on his campaign and he knew when to call it quits. I look forward to hearing from him again in 2016, especially if republicans get sensible and go more for the middle. Palwenty? i don't see him gaining much ground even next time around. He doesn't seem to be obnoxious enough to succeed in that party.

phine ... based on what we've seen so far I think even Michele and Rick could have had some front-runner status. Nah ... even the Repugs wouldn't go that low. Would they?

I agree with Wayne. Huntsman could read the tea leaves. He came into the race with a huge downside, having been part of the Obama Administration. And then he's another Mormon, which is also a downside, in a race with a Mormon frontrunner who hadn't been in the Obama Administration (and who had better name awareness). Throw in some moderate points of view, and he really didn't have much going for him.

Pawlenty I agree completely is probably kicking himself high and low for dropping out.

Afternoon, gentlemen. Personally, I think both Pawlenty and Huntsman were too sane for this years nomination fight. And, except for a very, very, very small, inbred portion of the far right, I don't see Michelle and Rick being favorites either. (Although, I sure do miss that dancing machine of Marcus Bachmann)

Remember, Bachmann and Perry had their turns on top. They couldn't hold it together.

Paul, that is true. I just didn't count the Ames straw poll. When it came down to actual primary time, well, let's just say those two were not ready for prime time! (But added great fodder for SNL)

What about Ron Paul? Did he drop off the face of the earth, or what?

The powers that be don't like Paul. Paul is off the radar and will stay there.

Paul M -

I'm sure it was unintentional, or it's just that it's after 5:00 on a long day, but your post conjures up an image I'm just not sure I really want to be thinking about. :)

I expect to see Huntsman back in 2016. After getting wiped out in 2012 and 2014, the GOP may finally realize that the politics of hate engendered by the Tea Party and the evangelical right does not sell to the other 80% of the population.

As an intelligent patriotic fiscal conservative Huntsman is well set to take the GOP where it needs to go to lead the country.

If the GOP continues with the Tea Party evangelical conservativism, they will go nowhere.

JoAnne,

Thanks for sharing that picture :) Definitely time for a drink! A stiff drink!

Anyone who characterizes Pawlenty as "sane" has no knowledge of him. He is as right wing as Bachmann, and just as nuts. One of his first acts as Governor was to bring a right wing "educator" in to rewrite curriculum in MN. It was SO extreme and so antithetical to anything resembling education that she was finally run off by a consortium of outraged parents and the legislature.

There is a reason that Pawlenty could not deliver MN for Romney. We don't like him.

Ohhhh, just read it to see what you mean. Yeah, when you aren't typing it, it kinda comes across differently, huh?

Wayne,

But they like Santorum?

If Romney is severely conservative, what is Santorum?

Paul M ... "it kinda comes across differently, huh?" Yeah, vividly in all the colors of the rainbow.

A frothy mixture.

Romney SAYS he is severely conservative. In fact, he is a shape shifter. Whatever seems popular at a given time is where you will find Mitt, making his stand........for now.

Santorum is the flavor of the week because he claims to be the number one prototype conservative, perfect in every way except that he is a conservative.

thetotas: "What about Ron Paul? Did he drop off the face of the earth, or what?"

I admire the loyalty of the Ron paul supporters, I really do. But sooner or later, they have to face the facts. He has yet to win a single primary or caucus. He has yet to "surge", even though he's smarter and better organized than say, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry (I know, damning with faint praise). If neither Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich seems able to "seal the deal" with GOP voters at this point, then how can Paul? I'm not asking from a snarky partisan perspective; I honestly want to know what do his supporters think is going to happen in the future that hasn't happened up to this point?

P.S. - I think (medically speaking, at least) the only things beyond "severely" are "gravely" and "terminally". Take your pick.

Paul is unelectable, and a danger to the country. theotas: read about his association with the John Birch Society.

To thetoas Ron Paul is very much alive and kicking.The news media outlets like MSBSNBC for example,like to put him on the back shelf because they're Obama influenced and they all know Ron Paul is telling the TRUTH!

As the old saying goes THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

In National polls Dr Paul's strength is growing, Mitts is falling...

the party just might not want him but it is clear to everyone without blinders that the people want him... at least the true conservatives do, and they are figuring out that they need to get involved..

Gloria,

The GOP establishment is trying to put Dr. Paul on the back burner. He doesn't toe the party line. However, come convention and general election time, they will try to court and win his support (and supporters). Will be interesting to see what happens then.

Egilman,

Dr. Paul truly is a thorn in the side of the "powers that be" in the GOP, eh?

newday, you talk about Pawlenty,but you left out Ventura and Franken

gloria: The only thing I can see that might attract you to Ron Paul is his call to legalize what are now illegal drugs. I cannot imagine you could be attracted to his call for lassiez faire economics. Do you even understand what that means? If you don't, you really need to look into it. You would be economically destroyed, and there would be NO welfare program to help you at all. So, the only thing I can see that might attract you to his social Darwinist ideas is his call for legalizing what are now illegal drugs. Is that it?

I have a hard time getting a feel for just where the republican party is headed. Are they for work for the middle class ? If so, why have they not at least brought up ideas to the floor of the house..other than more tax cuts for the wealthy..? HAve heard lots of talk from all runnig for the office of president...and not one is for the middle class. Each has his own set of ways to improve the wealthy of their wealthy friends...not one has talked of job creation..They have talked of cutting social security...which I have paid into since I started working at 16...as for medicare..I apy into thqt also..as most drawing SS do. Lets see, cuts to education is on their list...and this country today is way behind many other country's in teaching their young. But, I guess that is not necessary to republicans today.

TJefferson: how about his call to reduce the size of the federal government. To only have the government do what is actually written on the paper version of the constitution, not the "taffie pull everything fits" version both parties have warped into existence.

As an example, does the US Government really have the right to execute its citizens anywhere in the world without a trial ? Are the provisions of the Patriot Act and the FAA authorization for the TSA legal ? What right does the Federal government have to tell anyone what medical procedures they can or can't have ?

TJefferson, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all you have no idea what Ron Paul stands for if you did you would realize how stupid your comment are.

Franken is very popular in MN. He has done a good job as Senator, and I'm sure, keeps Wellstone in mind as he votes.

Have no clue why you bring up Ventura. He was an aberration by the same people that like Ron Paul. That was a three way vote for Governor. If he had run against one, he would have lost. He would not have been reelected.

newday, because we were talking about MN voters, and that they'll vote for anyone.

dirp and Mtex: I know EXACTLY what Ron Paul stands for because he has said it over and over and over. The man is a social Darwinist--he believes in lassiez faire economic theory! Do YOU know what that means??!!?? Surely, you must NOT know what it means or why else would you support an economic theory that believes MONOPOLY is the logical end of capitalism! If you think not, then ask the man! Ron Paul believes there should be NO government regulations to oppose corporate monopoly---the very ANTI-THESIS of what your party stood for under Theodore Roosevelt and William Howard Taft! Was your party wrong then or is it wrong now! I believe TR and Taft were exactly right.

Gloria,

In the last several caucuses and primaries, Ron Paul has not gained more than 20% support except in that huge state, Maine. On average, he's probably getting 12-15% of the Republican primary/caucus vote. If there are about an equal number of Democratic and Republican voters, that means he is supported by 6-8% of the American people. Whatever he's saying, his support isn't nearly enough to gain the Republican Party nomination nor the Presidency in a general election.

You and your loyal colleagues can continue to say great things about Ron, including that only he is telling the truth, but not enough Americans agree with what he claims to be the truth to support his candidacy. I welcome his candidacy as an Independent--he reminds me a lot of Ross Perot.

P.S.--Was he telling the truth when he said: "

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the ‘criminal justice system,’ I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."— Printed In Ron Paul’s Newsletter

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action." — Printed In Ron Paul’s Newsletter

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs."

"The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance."

You'll probably say the first two quotes were not written by him but rather by others in a Newsletter bearing his name. My reply: although he's been challenged on those quotes, he's never disavowed those beliefs. His refusal to do so implies that he believes that they are "the truth."

As to the two religious quotes about a Christian nation, the Founding Fathers, and separation of church and states, they're patently ridiculous, a horrible corruption of the views of the Founding Fathers and an abominable misunderstanding of the First Amendment's Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses.

His religious statements are demonstrably wrong, according to no less an authority than the United States Supreme Court, which has consistently recognized that the purpose of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment was to build or erect a wall separating Church and State, according to Thomas Jefferson, whose group crafted the clause:

"[A]t the first session of the first Congress the amendment now under consideration was proposed with others by Mr. Madison. It met the views of the advocates of religious freedom, and was adopted. Mr. Jefferson afterwards, in reply to an address to him by a committee of the Danbury Baptist Association (8 id. 113), took occasion to say: 'Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions,-I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore man to all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.' Coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured." Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145, 164 (1878).

"Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. "In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1, 16, citing Reynolds v. United States, supra, 98 U.S. at page 164.

"This Court first reviewed a challenge to state law under the Establishment Clause in Everson v. Board of Ed. of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1, 67 S.Ct. 504, 91 L. Ed. 711 (1947).1 Relying on the history of the Clause, and the Court's prior analysis, Justice Black outlined the considerations that have become the touchstone of Establishment Clause jurisprudence: Neither a State nor the Federal Government can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither a State nor the Federal Government, openly or secretly, can participate in the affairs of any religious organization and vice versa.2 "In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State.' "Everson, 330 U.S., at 16, 67 S. Ct., at 511 (quoting Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145, 164, 25 L. Ed. 244 (1878)). Even the dissenters agreed: "The Amendment's purpose ... was to create a complete and permanent separation of the spheres of religious activity and civil authority by comprehensively forbidding every form of public aid or support for religion." 330 U.S., at 31–32, 67 S. Ct., at 519–520 (Rutledge, J., dissenting, joined by Frankfurter, Jackson, and Burton, JJ.); accord, Lee v. Weisman, 505 US 577, 599-600 (1992).

So what does Paul say about these court decisions: "Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity."

So Mr. Paul, who is not educated in law nor does he claim to be, purports to be a higher legal authority on what the Founding Fathers intended by the religious clauses in the First Amendment than the Supreme Court, the final authority on what the Constitution means, which has consistently ruled contrarily to Mr. Paul's positions since 1878.

P.P.S.--Mr. Paul's understanding of the 9th and 10th Amendments is also off the wall, he refuses to accept that Rowe v. Wade, which was decided almost 40 years ago, is the law of the land. Ron Paul's a hick who has shown he's a racist, a dull-witted anti-abortionist, a global warming flip-flopper and denier, and a rabid Christian who is completely ignorant of the Constitution, corrupting it to advance his Libertarian beliefs. Libertarianism is great for its respect of personal liberty, but on every other count, it's wholly inadequate to address this country's needs in the 21st Century, nationally or internationally. At bottom, that's why Ron is so unpopular among voters.

MTex: He probably knows more about it than you do obviously.

TJefferson, again you have no idea what Ron Paul stands for go to Ron Paul.com. Maybe then you will get the right information if not you keep your believes.

Holy smokes stop with the Ron Paul legalizing illegal drugs. Sometimes I wonder what you people do when he starts talking, do you take a word or two out of his arguments and make assumptions? Dr. Ron Paul wants the STATES to manage illegal drugs, rather than on a federal level. Do you honestly think a state would legalize heroin, meth or cocaine. He doesn't want to legalize drugs, just as the other candidates don't either.

Malcolm, you are exactly right all those scared and who oppose Ron Paul never state the true facts about Dr. Paul.

Mtex: I will keep my "believes." You don't understand the difference between "belief" and "scientific knowledge." I can believe anything I want foolish or not, but scientific knowledge is the conclusion of inductive butressed by deductive logic.

I know what Ron Paul stands for, and I know what social Darwinism is all about. Ron Paul is an honorable man. I believe he is the most honorable among all Republican presidential candidates, but he has a bad idea. You have to get beyond simple concepts as "limited government" and "less spending." Hell, no one is opposed to those things! But, when you understand what lassiez faire capitalism means, then you must understand its consequences. Read, The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair that was written back in the early years of the 20th century. That novel was written when social Darwinism was the prevailing theory in the United States. Ron Paul wishes to go back to that world, a world that would destroy the American Republic, and, given the amount of power the U.S. has in the world, it would destroy the economies of the rest of the world as well. Why do you think the Republican Party candidates only parrot what Ron Paul says, but once they get power, they abandon social Darwinism? They know that!

Ron Paul Libertarian Idiocy

Friday, January 27th, 2012 | Posted by Eric L. Wattree

Ron Paul and Libertarian Idiocy

Ron Paul and Libertarian Idiocy

BENEATH THE SPIN • ERIC L. WATTREE

Ron Paul is a typical demagogue. He specializes in combining fact with fiction, and pointing out everything that’s wrong with all of the policies that are contrary to his agenda. Then he claims that his irresponsible solution is a cure for all of our problems, which is an exercise in pure fiction. Paul is quoted as saying the following:“The most basic principle to being a free American is the notion that we as individuals are responsible for our own lives and decisions. We do not have the right to rob our neighbors to make up for our mistakes, neither does our neighbor have any right to tell us how to live, so long as we aren’t infringing on their rights. Freedom to make bad decisions is inherent in the freedom to make good ones. If we are only free to make good decisions, we are not really free.”

Paul’s entire premise is flawed. Total personal freedom was clearly not the intent of the founding fathers. They had the good sense to recognized that a society, or a civilization, as it were, is defined as a “GROUP of people who have joined together to pursue a common interest or goal,” and they clearly set out their intent in the preamble of the United States Constitution, which reads as follows:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare [not just make Ron Paul happy] and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Thus, if Ron Paul doesn’t like the rules we’ve set up to “promote the general welfare,” he has the freedom to move to the wilderness and not live among us. But according Ron Paul’s philosophy, he thinks he should have the right to pee against the wall in the middle of Times Square during rush hour, and the government should be precluded from stopping him. Because you see, according to Paul’s philosophy, and his flawed reading of the United States Constitution, that should be his inalienable right, since he’s not hurting anyone else.

So in essence, Paul wants to have his cake and eat it to. He wants to take advantage of the benefits of living in an ordered society, while not having to adhere to the rules that make it a society. For example, he contends that the civil rights laws that prevent him from refusing to serve certain groups in his restaurant abridges his right to private ownership. But on the other hand, he has absolutely no problem with the fact that the group that he bans is forced to pay taxes that support “his right to private ownership.” If his business catches on fire, he’s going to expect the banned group’s tax supported fire department to come put it out. And if he’s robbed, he’s going to expect the group’s tax supported police department to come to his aid. But the fact is, he can’t have it both ways. If he’s not willing to adhere to society’s rules, he can’t expect to take advantage of the benefits of living in an ordered society.

Paul also wants to abolish the Department of Education, which is essential to maintaining a “more perfect union.” His philosophy also dictates that we should simply “trust” corporations not to grind up rats in our ground beef, or pollute our air and water. He says, “Just let the free market handle it.”

Well, that sounds like a plan, but we saw how the free market handled the Wall Street fiasco, didn’t we? The free market created it, and we paid for it – dearly. The only thing free about the free market is the freedom of ruthless and greedy capitalists to take advantage of a naive and unsuspecting public – and then they tell us we’er un-American if we complain about it.

Thus, Ron Paul’s philosophy represents the rantings of a selfish, unthinking, greedy, and totally irresponsible lunatic. Therefore, if he wants total personal freedom, it’s well within his grasp. He can vote with his feet and move to the wilderness. Then he can pee against any tree in the forest at will – but he shouldn’t expect us to come to his aid if a snake decides to latch on to his pecker. That’s the price of total freedom.

Eric L. Wattree

Many people opposing Ron Paul know exactly what he stands for. They simply have a better understanding of how his positions would change the real world that we all live in, and choose to oppose him. His policies would collapse the US economy and return it to the boom and bust cycles of the nineteenth century, when this country had a major depression 4 times. After the fifth depression in 1928, the country finally adapted policies to regulate the economy, and we haven't had a depression since. When some of those regulations on financial institutions were removed, it led to the deepest recession we have had since the 1030s. There are people who understand this, and that is why they oppose Ron Paul. Ayn Rand style economics only work on the pages of a mediocre novel.

Even Ayn Rand used social security, medicare, and medicaid. Some economic guru. Interesting book, lousy reasoning.

" ... Did he drop off the face of the earth, or what? ... "

Yep. That's what happens when you are a "flat earther". You sail up to the edge and fall off.

TJefferson - do max the honor and visit Ron Paul's site. In doing so, you will see he is not as nuts as you think.

Mtex - although you are closer than TJefferson, but here is dose of reality. Ron Paul Paid for people's tickets to CPAC and bused them their to get a larger share of the straw vote than he deserved. His intent is to by deception gain more voice in the republican party for his ideas.

Furthermore, if you pay attention to everything Ron Paul is saying, he is also saying he is staying in the race, because he knows that the more delegates he can collect the more influence at the convention.

This year Mitt appears to have done the same thing, but on a grander scale. though what these two are doing isn't exactly wrong, but it sure says a lot about them.

" ... but you left out Ventura and Franken ... "

Now there's a ticket I could get behind.

Ventura/Franken 2012!

Woot! WOOT!!!!!

" ... you will see he is not as nuts as you think. ... "

I just did. And boy was I wrong about Ron Paul.

He's even WORSE then I was led to believe. Imagine that.

It's always easy to take words out of context. Just ask Faux News, Mr, posting from facebook.

Push those blinders a little tighter, because a lot of what you are reading here tonight is the truth. Run! Run now while you have the chance!

to: pharmacy (pinemacy?)

don't say repubs are inbred.

I've seen enough narcissism with yoyo ma in the wart house.

Tmex, are you really saying 50 states of laws and regulations are better than 1 government? You have 50 states screwing things up.

Ron Paul liberty? It amounts to the right to oppress people weaker than themselves. It amounts to corporations being allowed to treat employees and the environment however they please. He wants liberty for white american males, women like the other GOP candidates are under fire.

I do think Obama is thanking the GOP for the easy win that will be coming his way given the substandard garbage they have put up.

Ventura did a good job as governer. People just don't like him because he's free thinking and won't sell out. He says things and asks questions people dont want to hear, but he's a smart man and a suprisingly good governor. He sticks behind what he believes and wont be pushed around, even if it pisses people off. He has integrity. People just think of him as a joke because he was a wrestler, but people also vote for obama and romney, so it shows how smart they are.

^ Problem is Mitt is losing ground to Obama the whole time.

When he said severely conservative - he meant: Severely desperate for conservatives to stop attacking him.

God help him if Santorum/Gingrich/Palin and the other loons never do come around to endorsing him.

They probably will - if only to avoid being blamed for Mitts defeat.

I would not vote for Rick Santorum.

The republican party is broken and messed up. Please fix it and clean up the mess.

I think it is on the verge of healing at this point. The membership is studying these candidates and making an informed choice instead relying on the opinions of those in leadership.

IMHO,

You are correct on your assertion of the Repubes. I hope they bought that extended warranty that could be used in case of blank stares, misstatements, crazy made-up medical facts, Oopses, frothy liquids, airheads, bathroom stall stalkers, groping misogynists, racists, and elitists.

I am a Ron Paul supporter, because he will get us out of our hole that we have dug ourselves into. That combined with liking his idea to stop giving BILLIONS of dollars to other countries to do what we want politically. So you guys go and elect all of these other candidates who will end up getting us an unnecessary war in Iran. Isn't like Israel needs help with Iran, as soon as they get nuclear weapons Tehran will be obliterated. So all of you go fought for your dishonest candidates.......and i understand his other policies, but you should know as we found out with Obama that the other political party will freeze the Congress, thus making that president useless. That's the biggest problem with our country the elected officials wont do their job, instead of thinking for themselves, which is the reason why most REASONABLE people vote, they vote everything along their parties guidelines. Go check the facts the party that is more likely to vote along another parties side is the Democrats. Simply unbearable fact that we vote in politicians who wont even do their job, if I decided one day I didn't want to do my job......I would get fired. Enough Said

Paul,

I agree. Newt's whole mantra is anger - while it stirs some up it cannot stand in the long run. Dr. Paul has a solid loyal following, but not enough to face down Romney. Romney's only way to win has been a barrage of negative ads. I think that is what is making Santorum look a little better to the GOP base.

I think in the general election the teaparty types will vote for Romney even though they despise him. The rank and file republicans may just stay home. I can't stand the idea of Romney running again like that nut Ralph Nader. Honestly, that guy drove me nuts! He loved being the spoiler. Hopefully Paul will play that part this election cycle. That should tie Willard's shoelaces together!

I don't dislike Ron Paul. But he has no shot, because he doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is, and what he is doesn't sound very Republican.

I've got a bit of libertarianism in me, too, so I like having his voice there - especially when you know there's no way he gets elected. I would probably be most comfortable with Gary Johnson. He's been a governor, and we've seen his ability to blend some libertarian ideas into a non-libertarian current reality.

You know, I think Dr. Paul is trying to gain as many delegates as he can so he can wield some power at the convention. He also will be setting things up for his son to run in 2016.

Phine--I think you may be right on that one. But the thought of Rand Paul anywhere near the presidency gives me the shivers! He is worse than his father on social issues!

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

If Santorum winds up being the Republican candidate for President, he will not only lose badly among Independents, but he'd also lose 70-80% of the female vote. So, you go ahead, Republicans--nominate this religious fundamentalist who's more like the Taliban than any other political figure in US history.

Michael: I enjoyed reading what you wrote on Ron Paul. Really, well done!

Michael: ditto, I liked yours and TJefferson's try to get through to the Ron Paul fanatics.

After that, they can only be in denial.

Paul, a lot has changed in the last couple of months. There has been a major shift from a focus on Who looks like they could beat the snot out of Obama while ignoring glaring severe flaws.

I agree, Santorum is consistent, and that will be a big plus. Of all the candidates, he has the least baggage too. I like his balance of his personal opinons verses what is reasonable to do. He is the one candidate I heard a good bit that they liked most of what he had to say, but they were concerned about how well he would do in the fall. The worst thing Romney has found was the number of earmarks Santorum got - and at least 75% were constructive in gaining jobs and not just perks.

My thoughts are vote for the candidate you like the most, let the results come in and see where they land by convention. If there is no clear winner, then the convention will decide. With the shift I'm seeing continuing, he just might clinch before the convention.

Republican choices: 1% Gorden Ghecko/Ritchie Rich out of touch robotic flip-flopper whos economic plan would destroy the middle class &cut Medicare & SS by 36% destroying the lives of most retirees or you go with the witch burning Theocrat who would try to give us state religion or loose cannon Gingrich the racist serial hypocrite this leaves Ron Paul who actually has a few good ideas but is totaly unrealistic & would take us back to 1890s capitalism boom &bust I will stick with Obama Independent study says he is most moderate democrat since WW2 a far cry from the rabid rights hysterical claims that he is a commie. They just can't stand the fact that a black man is President

I thought they did. They call them Republicans.

Kevin, how unkind, the dogs are the republicans running for election.

they are not dogs. dogs are loyal

If you take in a starving dog & feed him he will not bite you this is the princepal difference between a dog and a repuplican to misquote Mark Twain compring these republicans to dogs is an insult to our canine friends

They won't nominate him. A former Senator too extreme to hold on to even his own seat in Pennsylvania? Why do you think Republican voter turnout is down around the country so far...THESE are the choices??

Wayne,

The first time my granddaughter saw the Burger King guy (about 6 years ago), she asked "Grandma, why does that man have a plastic head?" I bet she would ask the same about Mr. Romney if she were actually watching today's politics instead of running track and field!

What did she say when she saw Obama, I'll bet she said I thought Dumbo was a elephant!!!

LOL! My wife still refuses to go to Burger King! My daughter taunted her once by playing an x box game in which the plastic head guy starred. Mrs. Wayne ran upstairs fast!

Cliff,

We are done with you now. You may leave.

Cliff,

She is 11 years old (5 at the time of the Burger King ad). A political pundit she is not. So, if you please, attack me, not my granddaughter. I don't take kindly to attacks on her.

Well said Phine.

Thanks Wayne. While a very intelligent young lady, her interest in politics is - President Obama is cool because he has to daughters around her age and she likes the clothes the girls wear.

Her big focus is on track and field and maybe becoming a cheerleader. One goal is to run long distance for US Olympic team!

So sad to be so young and brainwashed.

Look, cliffy, I told you to leave her alone! She has no interest in any of this, other than the cool clothes that the Obama girls wear! If you are representative of how a member of the GOP base thinks about 11 year old girls - well, heaven help you and your party. You are a disgusting person to attack a child. Hope you are real proud of yourself.

What is it? Not man enough to go after an adult woman? Have to attack a child? Pathetic!

Your the one who brought her up on here not me, all I'm saying it is so sad how you and your Liberal nutcase friends are brain washing her. If going after an adult woman means someone like you I'll switch to a man.

Cliff - you went way too far. You can get banned for this and are being a poor representative for whichever party you are seen as representing.

Phine - you thought cliffs post 13.2 was an attack?? All he did was follow your train of thought about romney and asked about a comparison to obama. Geez, why not think about what you say before you jump. Now, you can claim 13.8 and 13.10 are attacks, but attacks that you invited.

I don't give a damn what party you are involved with nor what your political beliefs are, Any attack on a child in any manner on any occasion by any one shows a lack of character and a severe lack of upbringing. To rationalize that a parent or grandparent invited it is even lower class than the worms that crawl under the earth.

DETESTABLE BEHAVIOR!

You people are stupid. no one attacked any child. Why dont you people read what is being written? Egilman, you know what I think is horrible? Accusing an adult man of attacking a child when he clearly has not. Phine, you're horrible for telling a man to attack an adult woman. Detestable behavior.

Cliff has the hots for men with protruding ears

Yes, it is a sad joke on the GOP. I'm a fourth-generation, life-long GOP voter, but the GOP has brought the current situation on itself. At one time, educated, thoughtful conservatives such as William Buckley were respected. Now, anyone with an education or an air of moderation is demonized. Why would any reasonable person run in such an environment? So, we only have the nut cases left in the campaign.

The best case is that the party implodes in 2012, Obama repeats a Nixon-like sweep of the states and the tea-taliban faction is cast back into the wilderness where it belongs. If that happens, we might actually see some intelligent and exciting candidates in 2016.

For some unexplainable reason for every "moderate" the republican party loses, it seems to gain 2 people.

And those two people scare off three or more independents. That's no way to win back the presidency.

McCain would have had an excellent shot at winning in 2008 if he had selected someone with a brain, say Senator Snowe, instead of an airhead.

Barry,

if you think for one second that Oberry is going to win 49 states (almost all 50) like Nixon did in '72 I would like some of what you are smokin, Man that is good @!$%#!

Oh please, the GOP is not gaining any members. I guess you must have missed 6,000 voters in Maine. Maine has a population of over a million. Look around you, your party is dying. Dead. The only faithful Republican party members left are fanatical religious nuts (who think God put dinosaurs bones in the ground to test their faith) and racists (who just plain want the black man out of the white house). It's 2012 GOP look around you the Civil Rights movement was fifty years ago, and the country is going to leave you behind this election.

Joe,

6,000 is a much larger group than the 3,500 or so democrats that caucused in Maine during the '08 election cycle....

How does that fit into you phantasy?

Very intelligent post. What are you, seven? By the way, that's "not TOO bright." You don't know how to spell "too."

gloria fabiaschi: Apparently you have been listenning to Glen Beck and Fox news for your entertainment which explains your lack of knowledge and facts about real issue's.

Hey Charlie, looks like hawk-2946882 doesn't understand the appropriate usage of apostrophes. Perhaps you would care to spend another couple of minutes to explain for him the basics of English grammar as you demonstrated so maturely for gloria?

Don't worry Kevin, four more years of Barry the Muslim and you won't have to be concerned about Presidential Elections, because if he can continue with his real agenda, you will be "Goose Stepping" down the street wearing a brown shirt, yelling "Hail Barry". That is if he doesn't weaken our military so severely that we get destroyed by China, or some other foreign power.

Jody,Iowa: The way that their campaign is going you can throw lassie into the mix and he will surge to, and he is a real dog not like santorum or romney.LOL.

Someone on CNN stated that Rick plans to ban the sale of all condoms if he is elected. This will cause disease to spread like wildfire.

I am sure Santorum will be ok with that since they are sinners and they deserve to die of some preventable illness. This whole thing is sickening. The fact that this guy has even made it this far truly scares me. People talk about less government, but who is going to police our bedrooms? It is insanity.

Miami: ok, I can't stomach the guy who is running for 'preacher in chief' either, but ask yourself...exactly how would the president of the united states "ban" a legal product?