Truly, what is the point of a primary if the News Networks declare Ramney the White Knight?

I remember when the Democratic Primary went all the way to the end and it was a hard fought battle to the last… but in this Republican Primary, it appears that all the networks (Right/Left Leaning) do not want this to go on for very long. They fear that President Obama would win by a landslide, thus taking away from any, if at all, credibility the networks would have had concerning predictions.

As many may know, I have never been a fan of any MSM that spins news and information for the sake of the almighty dollar. The MSM has always been in the pocket of corporations in which Romney is part of.

If they can wrap this up sooner than later, then they can have all the polls they want that sways toward Ramney. Gingrich is obviously a loose cannon in terms of control and discipline. I could care less who wins, but the simple fact that the networks do the bidding of the board room and not the bidding of the viewer is a sign of what they report on, corporate control. Just like Congress is supposed to be about the people, so are the networks and neither has shown the willingness to answer to it. And it is about the Convention anyway... I've referred to this process before as an Elephant with Mad Cow disease... the only way Ramney can gain credibility is throught he way he is portrayed at the Convention. When it is Convention time and Newt is shunned from giving a sppech, you better watch out, they TEA Drinkers will say, "Screw the Establishment. We're not voting."

However, it's not really the Establishment that is taking Gingrich down, it’s the MSM. They only report that the Establishment is taking him out. The same spin with a different detergent. The only pundits I see that are neutral to the whole process is Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz or Lawrence ODonnell; three out of countless numbers. I guess that is what is called throwing a bone…

I never watch MTP but caught the Gregory/Axelrod moment of disrespect and gotcha attempt moment… if this is the guy that represents the Legacy of Tim Russert, then they totally missed the mark. He seems as partisan as a guy with a shotgun in one hand and a Constitution in the other that begins with, “We the South…”

It’s truly a crying shame that, in spite of being racist and crazy, Gingrich can’t attain the status of frontrunner since he is the frontrunner. I guess that is why J. Bush or Daniels said “no” to running because they realized they are running against a crazy process, crazy candidates and a crazy base.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

I have said in the past that America’s best years are in its rear view mirror. My conclusion is based on the history of other world powers and their eventual decline after they got fat and happy and lazy, and lost the edge of being lean and hungry. Look at what happened to all the former world powers of the 16^th, 17^th, 18^th and 19^th centuries, Spain, France and England. America owned the 20^th century the same way as Spain, France and England owned the 16^th-19^th centuries. Those former world powers have devolved into socialist mediocracies, which is exactly where I see America headed in the 21^st century if we continue on the lefty liberal, higher taxes, slow economic growth, higher unemployment, govt as nanny, course Barry and the Dems have set the country on.

Meanwhile, lean and hungry countries like China, India and Brazil will own the 21^st century. As will smaller emerging market countries in Asia and Latin America.

I’m not happy with this situation, but, pretending reality is not reality is not an option. My guess is that the chances of America avoiding the same fate as other former world powers are pretty slim. American’s have already adopted a broad-based “entitlement” mentality of “When anything bad happens to me, whether I’m in any way at fault or not, I’m entitled to be compensated by someone, by either suing them, or whining loud enough to get a freebie govt program.”

From MSDNC.com:

8 industries China leads where the US used to

Steel, cars, even beer, as nation closes in on America for GDP dominance

Americans are used to the U.S. being the leader, or a top-ranked nation, in many areas. But in a number of industries and businesses, the U.S. has lost that first place, usually to China. While some, such as coal production, may not come as a surprise, other industries the U.S. has lost the market leadership might. 24/7 Wall St. looked at a large number of manufacturing, agricultural and financial businesses to find those in which China has surpassed the U.S.

For several years, economists have said that China’s GDP growth indicates that its economy will pass that of the U.S. in the next two or three decades. China’s GDP is measured at about $6.5 trillion, now second in the world. America’s GDP is over $15.2 trillion, according to the International Monetary Fund. While China certainly has much catching up to do, the two countries’ rate of GDP growth is also very different. Last year, China’s economy expanded at more than 9 percent. America’s GDP grew at a little better than 2 percent.

One reason that China continues to gain so rapidly on the U.S. is the high cost of American labor and manufacturing. In fact, U.S. manufacturing costs have risen so much that they are much higher than in any developed nation with factory capacity. This includes countries like China, Mexico and South Korea — places the U.S. and Japanese companies often contract to do their factory work. The labor price advantage has helped China become the largest steel producer in the world. China is also first place in car manufacturing.

Low labor costs are not the sole reason China has become the single largest provider of many goods. China’s 1.3 trillion citizens have become voracious consumers as workers in its manufacturing sector have grown the number of its middle class. China also has decided that it is often financially better to provide its own raw material for its factories— items like cotton — than it is to import such items from overseas.

24/7 Wall St. examined the manufacturing, agricultural and financial businesses in which China has surpassed the U.S. China likely will become the world’s largest economy based on GDP. It certainly has shown that it has the capacity to advance on that position — one large industry at a time.

1. Steel
2. Cotton
3. Initial Public Offerings
4. Tobacco
5. Autos
6. Beer Production
7. High-Technology Exports
8. Coal Production

Also important to note, Bush and Daniels did not run because they knew Obama could not be defeated.

"The long campaign between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama led them to win the presidency. There's no reason a long campaign has to be a bad thing."

That's Newt responding to critics who fear that a protracted Republican race for the nomination would be harmful to their prospects in the general election. And he's exactly right. Have we so quickly forgotten the bitter, bare knuckle cage match the Democrats entertained us with last time around?

Republicans will do just fine, they will heal and unite because the alternative is unthinkable: if there's anything that rallies Republicans from all corners of the party it's the single minded goal to make Obama a one term president. Republicans may quibble about which candidate gives them the best chance to do that – heck, that's what the nominating process is all about. But once a champion emerges, only the kool-aid drinkers on the left will dismiss that candidate as a hopelessly wounded loser.

In fact, I would argue that Romney has become a stronger candidate by virtue of his battle with Newt – his performances in the last two debates have been among his best. As for Newt, if he gets the prize Obama and his buds might be hard pressed to find the final nail to put into the coffin of a guy who repeatedly rises from the political dead. And both of these men will be well positioned to give voice to the dissatisfaction legions of Americans have with the state of the country.

So politically speaking, the guy who's dead man walking these days is Obama. He and his fanboys just don't know it yet.

I can't believe that Callista pays what she pays to get that remarkable ugly 'do.

I don't think there is any question what Newtie will do. He will do what he always does, have a tantrum. He feels entitled to the office, and has since his last tantrum about getting off the back of Air Force One when Clinton was President. Don't you all remember? He and Limbaugh went about saying that the President was irrelevant, after all, Newtoid was Speaker. We all know how THAT turned out!

Going to get ugly.

Tobacco - I'm in favor of fewer cases of lung cancer. Aren't you?

...yeah, no, we need to boost our economy like China. My question for you is, "How long can you hold your breath?"

...or did you forget this lovely image of the Beijing Olympics?

www.wantchinatimes.com/newsphoto/2012-01-08/450/CC05X0466H_2011%E8%B3%87%E6%96%99%E7%85%A7%E7%89%87_N71_copy1.JPG

I beg to differ Bill, see my post 1.1. The candidate is damaged beyond all repair. Although they (Ramney/Gingrich) really never stood a chance against President Obama in the first place, but with the long process and dealing with a bi-polar Republican base (unlike the Democrats and the Democratic Primary), Ramney will see the largest defeat in U.S. History.

NewDay in all honesty, when Gingrich was persectuted by the voter a few months back over not supporting the proposed Repulican Bill for Healthscare, he already had it in his head for revenge over what they were about to do to him. I'm sure he already had it in his head they were going to castigate him over Right Wing Social comment and planned on making it tough for the Establishment. It's a dog eat dog world.

Feisty--it is insulting to two year olds to compare them to the Republican party but that is what their tantrums remind me of. Their way or the highway gets very tiresome.

Making her look old might be a bridge too far for Callista. She wants to be First Lady badly enough to break up Newt's second marriage and stay with him all these years but look older?

Well, it appears that Romneykins will be the Repugs candidate. So long Grinchy, it was nice watching you spit your venom all over your own Party, real pleasure knowing you. ;-)

Can't wait for the debates between our President and Romney. Should be a feast for President Obama.

Four more years. Four more years.

Obama in 2012.

I never watch MTP but caught the Gregory/Axelrod moment of disrespect and gotcha attempt moment… if this is the guy that represents the Legacy of Tim Russert, then they totally missed the mark.

LouisJ, that's pretty much what everyone is writing about now. David Gregory is the first to repeat any BS GOP talking point as if it is journalism. Go and read how he repeated GOP talking points re: Israel. It was a disgrace.

America just wants someone to report the freakin truth. And when the GOP continues to make up crap, America deserves to know that. You won't get that from MTP. He's a kiss up to Republicans. He always was.

I never watch MTP but caught the Gregory/Axelrod moment of disrespect and gotcha attempt moment… if this is the guy that represents the Legacy of Tim Russert, then they totally missed the mark

Louis,

You must of missed the first 20 minutes when Gotcha Gregory sat there like a potted plant and allowed John McCain & Fred Thompson free reign of the show...

When Axlerod came on, Gotcha suddenly went into full frontal attack mode!

Go figure!

Tim Russert has to be spinning in his grave...

Pat,

One of these days we will fine a REAL news journalist like a clone of Walter. They are few and far between much like Great Presidents.

Feisty, that's the very reason I do not watch... I may as well watch the crazies on FOX. Besides I'm on my way out the door to church... no reason to mess up my spirit with watching a bunch of demons sit around the table talking about stuff they talked about all week long.

Good post Feisty, impeachment is the weapon of choice for frustrated lying republicans.

Then we have the chairman of the RNC, Reince Priebus, accusing the President of the United States, of being just like the captain of the capsized cruise ship in Italy, abandoning ship, when he travels around the country.

People died on that ship, to suggest that the President's is causing people's deaths is way over the line. Yet no line, no lie is too far for these cretins to take their hateful rhetoric and the party followers love it.

It was totally offensive, GBM. The sad part is that the Republican leadership cannot seem to help itself. Anything for the "cause" including using a great tragedy.

Have we so quickly forgotten the bitter, bare knuckle cage match the Democrats entertained us with last time around?

One of President Obama's challenges was how to debate Hillary without getting mean - the one time he snarked "you're likeable enough, Hillary" he got severely punished, because even though some Democrats didn't support Hillary, the Clintons are well respected in the Democratic Party. President Obama never went negative to the extent Romney has destroyed Gingrich, and, while Hillary dropped a few snarks towards Obama, she didn't carpetbomb the eventual nominee with negative ads. Obama/Clinton were fierce competitors, it is true, but, speaking as a Democrat, one of the most moving moments of my political life, was watching Hillary put Barack's name up for nomination at the Democratic convention. Can anyone in their right mind imagine Gingrich doing the same for Romney?

Louis: absolutely right about Gingrinch, and that dog is going to try to chomp down on the Republican establishment.

Betty, I see you are busy posting articles on the MSNBC site, but you are only commenting on this one?

I am not part of the REP base, but the contest is getting me fired up to vote against Obama.

To compare the Romney/Gingrich primary battle of 2012 to the Obama/Clinton battle of 2008 misses 2 key factors. One is the personality of the opponents. I believe that both Obama and Clinton wanted a Democrat in the White House at the end of the battle. I'm not so sure that is true of Gingrich---he may want Romney to lose more than he wants to defeat President Obama.

The second factor is the unlimited money that can now be raised and spent by the Super PACs. Who knows how that would have impacted the Democratic primaries four years ago. To me it makes them seem like a relic of a by-gone era.

Joe in Albany: I don't necessarily make the same generalization, but if I was to take an actually bi-partisan look at it, I would say that liberals do not realize the extent to which they have to give up certain (not all) things, and conservatives have to realize that a free market is fine if you are the most competative company....right on up until the point that you aren't part of that company anymore. You ship enough jobs to China and you are no longer an American company.

Realize that the politicians on either side of the aisle are getting paid to lobby to send jobs to China. If you don't think lobbying matters, remember it was only within the past couple of weeks that Hollywood CEOs were trying to get a bill passed that wouldn't stop internet privacey, but would shut down their competitors.

Back to this whole Mitt Romney 'Coronation.' Its all press. Remember, the press was wondering if the nomination was going to be over in South Carolina, and whoopsie....all those journalists quickly somehow forgot they ever said that!

The good news and the bad news is there are no GOP debates for three weeks! That's good if you're Romney and bad if you're Gingrich. That's good news for moderators and viewers who watched the debates turn into a nitpicking fight over who has more Fannie and Freddie stock, who can ride a bicycle 25 miles in Texas, who is the bigger flip flopper, who is a "real Reagan" republican. Actually, there's not a "real Reagan" republican candidate left in the GOP; Elvis has left the building on that count.

Interesting that FR notes that the Clinton/Obama fight was over before Ohio and her win there and that the media didn't realize it at the time. At the time, I remember it was the media who kept Clinton in the process with their coverage. Most of us realized that Hillary had no electoral chance of winning the nomination but the media kept talking about it anyway as if she did but their road to victory path was a very long shot.

That said, I think the long primary made both better candidates. I don't see a long primary benefiting and strengthening the GOP candidates because they have crossed from policy disagreements and ads selling themselves to character assassinations of each other. You have both calling each other dishonest, liars and cheats and that's the nice stuff they throw at each other. Now matter how much the GOP claims that the negative attacks will have no impact in the general election, they are wrong and they are in spin mode.

GM: impeachment is the weapon of choice for frustrated lying republicans

And recalls are the weapon of choice for frustrated lying Democrats.

What's the difference GM?

The second factor is the unlimited money that can now be raised and spent by the Super PACs. Who knows how that would have impacted the Democratic primaries four years ago. To me it makes them seem like a relic of a by-gone era.

Good point Steeler Fan.

Have we figured out what Romney stands for yet?

Wait. It was the DEMOCRATS that impeached Davis in CA? Really, because I don't remember it that way.

Jody: At the time, I remember it was the media who kept Clinton in the process with their coverage. Most of us realized that Hillary had no electoral chance of winning the nomination but the media kept talking about it anyway as if she did but their road to victory path was a very long shot.

Jody, you remember it wrong, it was the DNC machine that put Obama in as the nominee:

From the HuffPo:

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's wave of superdelegate endorsements puts him within reach of the Democratic presidential nomination by the end of the primary season on June 3 — even if he loses half of the remaining six contests.

The Illinois senator has picked up 26 superdelegates in the past week. At that pace, he will reach the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination — 2,025 — in the next three weeks, when delegates from the remaining primaries are included.

Obama can sit there and let all the tax [cuts] lapse, and then the Republicans will have enough votes in the Senate in 2014 to impeach.

They tried this with the last Democrat in the Oval Office. It didn't work then and won't work now.

Ramney will see the largest defeat in U.S. History.

Some folks just drink the kool-aid, others wash it down with a few adult beverages.

You actually need to break a law to be impeached iirc.

It's different than a recall election.

From what I remember from Gov't class, being impeached is like being indicted on a charge. Then the Senate tries the case and find you guilty or not guilty. If guilty, you're gone.

Could be wrong.

Ruken, I understand the Constitutional issues.

But philosophically, what's the difference?

Not even close Mr Me First Bill... not by a long shot!

Ah Miss Feisty, the fact you and your friends are so quick to pounce on the comparison suggests otherwise.

But philosophically, what's the difference?

I don't follow.

If you mean they could just doctor up some charges, I guess they could try...might not go over so well in the long run though. Because it has to be an actual charge, for example I believe Clinton's was "Obstruction of Justice" and/or "Perjury". Both of these are actual criminal charges. However, since a sitting president has immunity from criminal prosecution, he can only be thrown out of office (but then he can be tried).

But he was nowhere close to being "convicted" iirc.

the fact you and your friends are so quick to pounce on the comparison suggests otherwise

No worries Mr. 'Master of Misinformation' Bill!

Only pointing it out for ya there... Captain Obvious! ;o)

Feisty:

Every word that comes out of their lying mouths is calculated to gin up their hateful 'base'!

Notice how they all say almost exactly the same thing? In 2008 it was a noun, a verb, and 9/11. But this year it's a noun, a verb, and class warfare. I think their main target is the media. If they all repeat the same lies over and over, the media won't question them.

My point ruken is that the Democrats are unhappy with the result of the 2010 votes so they are trying to "gin" up issues with the elected officials and recall them.

No different than what Norquist says. BTW, he can say all he wants, he can't really implement his garbage talk of impeachment.

However, it seems anyone with enough money can get a recall effort going.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Newt dropped the 'L' word yesterday and called Willard a *gasp* LIBERAL! lmao!

To Republicans, that's worse than calling him a liar. Romney even expressed pride in his skillful lying after he got caught in that dishonest campaign commercial that made it appear Obama was talking about himself when he was actually quoting a McCain operative.

Feisty's post of King Grover Norquist's comments point to just how delusional the GOP has become. Wonder why King Grover wasn't determined to impeach President Ronald Reagan over the 11 tax increases he signed into law. Such ridiculous comments from Norquist should point out for all to see who really control the GOP; every member of Congress up for re-election this year who signed Grover's anti-American tax pledge should be voted out of office.

Louis J, I haven't watched MTP for a long time for the very reasons you mentioned. I do check the website occasionally to see if things have changed but they haven't. Gregory is so obviously biased that he makes a joke of what once was THE premier Sunday morning political talk show. Even the years prior to Russert, there was no clear bias by the host. In all the years I watched Tim Russert, at no time did I have a clue as to his political leanings--he was that good and that fair. He called bull, bull regardless of which side said it. Gregory should be replaced and soon; I would say the same thing if the MTP host showed clear bias toward democrats. Integrity is being fair to both sides, being tough on both sides, challenging both sides. Watching Gregory demeans Tim Russert and the MTP legacy.

WCA,

The difference between impeachment and recall is that the former is done by Congress and the latter by the voters themselves.

Second,

You said the Obama was the nominee because of the Democrat machine! LOL

The super delegates did give their votes to Obama AFTER he won enough cacuses and primaries delegates from the voters.

I do not now how the super delegates work in the GOP convention delegate count. Do you?

My point ruken is that the Democrats are unhappy with the result of the 2010 votes so they are trying to "gin" up issues with the elected officials and recall them.

Can you recall people from the US House or Senate? I can't say I remember that happening. I know of Gov. Walker in WI who is (almost certainly) going to be recalled., but he's a state's governor.

But from what I am hearing, he's pretty slimy.

I think Romney pandered to the base with his usual * America the Beautiful* rendition he does in his own words ...

Can you imagaine that ? Doing America the Beautiful one moment, then frothing in hate the next ...

Then RNC Chair troglodyte Reince Preibus laughing as he compared Obama to the captain of the Costa Concordia who abandoned ship and 20 people died ...

Yes the Party of Hate & Death as usual ... sad.

Anything BAD that happens to Newt Gingrich over the next few weeks is only good for America. Why such a perverse bloated egotist ever thought that he would prove an acceptable candidate for public office, let alone POTUS remains a mystery.

I guess that he's like doggie-doo on your shoe - an odor that is hard to get rid of.

I guess that he's like doggie-doo on your shoe - an odor that is hard to get rid of.

I prefer to think of Newt in the matter I think of Bachmann.

Even if their campaign is like a skunk lying dead on the side of the road, it still stinks up the joint for miles.

White Collar Auto

No different than what Norquist says. BTW, he can say all he wants, he can't really implement his garbage talk of impeachment.

Huh? The Constitution says that impeachment is only warranted for high crimes and misdemeanors. Are you saying that a small increase in marginal tax rates on the rich is a high crime? Your attempt to equate recalls with impeachment is ridiculous. Thousands of citizens went out in the cold and collected almost as many signatures for his recall as the number of votes he got to be elected. You compare that process to a couple hundred politicians sitting on their kiesters in Congress voting for impeachment? And I'll bet you weren't whining when Gov. Gray was recalled in California.

Gingerbread Mamma, that comment by Priebus was offensive. Glad you brought it up. Bob Schieffer seemed taken back by it; he gave Priebus he opportunity to walk it back. Too bad Schieffer didn't call him out for it. Then again, the look on Schieffer's face pretty much said what he thought.

I can see Romney winning in Florida, because half of the people living in Florida are New Englander transplants. So, I only hope they all stay in the race and let the rest of the country have their say in the matter. I think the more people see the so called "front runners" by the corrupt media, paid for and bought, talking heads. They will realize that the only person in the race that will actually change the status quo, is Ron Paul. Yes, I am a Tea Partier, and I think Jethro Bodine would be better that Obuttwad. However, I didn't like Bush either. So, don't try to go there. I'm an American who is worried about the country and don't think we can take anymore politics as usual.

Romney is a moderate liberal and Gingrich is an insider that owes alot of favors. Ron Paul is not corruptable and is the only one trying to look out for America's best interest. I could care less about Demowits, Repugs or the so called Independents. Without a real fiscal conservative in the White House our house of cards will surely fall. God Bless America and may he help us make the right decision in 2012!!!

Help save the country - Tea Party and Ron Paul 2012!!!

Loois:

I never watch MTP but caught the Gregory/Axelrod moment of disrespect and gotcha attempt moment… if this is the guy that represents the Legacy of Tim Russert, then they totally missed the mark. He seems as partisan as a guy with a shotgun in one hand and a Constitution in the other that begins with, “We the South…”

I think it was only last week that I wrote here about how Gregory has taken up the Republicans "class warfare" chant. I think he's getting worse as time goes on. On a related topic, there was an analysis reported by Media Matters showing that 2/3 of the guests on Sunday talk shows are Republicans. John McCain seems to be on all of them at the same time. I don't know how he does it! Apparently, the corporate media is bringing back the rule that there must be two conserveratives for every liberal guests that they used to prop up George Bush during his rush to war.

Say, Feisty: do you think we will see the same faux outrage from the fringe right about this poor soul's avatar as we do about yours?

Am I missing something again? Haven't seen any story here about the OccuIdiot's Riot in Oakland over the weekend. Has the liberal media even covered it at all.

...you mean like this?

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46183690

Houston, what part of "garbage" don't you understand?

Go back and read GM's comment than really, try to follow along.

Libby's R Braindead, i will be interested to see how long you last with that Avatar. Dum Fux is OK here, but I bet you don't last to long.

Good Luck.

Damage123

Breaking windows. assaulting cops, and all-round vandalism has long been a characterstic of LEFTY protests.

How do you know they are only lefties and not tea baggers too ?

Hmmmm, First Read only covers the Republican primaries (90% of it's stories) and you folks are wondering why 2/3 of the guests on talk shows are Republicans?

Really?

Let's face it folks ... there's nothing here but a made up race to sell news!!!!

When one of the candidates is proposing building houses on the moon ... to folks who have the most mortgages under water ... he has to be a little "lunar" ...

Derek -- You make some good points. Especially on the jobs issue.

Bill -- Money is dictating the primary process it seems.

Didn't take long, Feisty.

Then we have the chairman of the RNC, Reince Priebus, accusing the President of the United States, of being just like the captain of the capsized cruise ship in Italy, abandoning ship, when he travels around the country.

Hi Gingerbread Mamma,

The RNC chairman Reince Priebus, proved to the Country and the World that he is a complete idiot.

To quote Democratic National Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, "I'm not going to give any credence to those incendiary remarks," Wasserman Schultz said on Fox News. "The captain of the Costa Concordia has been charged with manslaughter and for the RNC chairman to compare the President of the United States to someone who has been charged with manslaughter shows a dramatic level of insensitivity to the families of those victims. Unbelievable comparison."

Man Feisty, I really wish you would stop stalking me.

Like I have said before, it really is creepy.

Sorry pal - we are fresh out of booby prizes...

Passed them all out at the DDI on Friday, eh?

Exotix says "

How do you know they are only lefties and not tea baggers too ?"""""

Because when I watch coverage of the Tea Party Rallies on MSNBC, I see nothing but PEACEFUL activity. Unlike the lefties, who have a history of this crap. Seriously, flag burners need to be TAKEN OUT. Don't you patriotic Americans agree? Ever notice you never see them at any protests from the Right? And if, by some chance there was, I would feel the same in that case.

By the way, saying "teabaggers" turns you on, doesn't it?

Boo hoo hoo. Waaaaah Waaaaah Waaaah.

What happened yesterday? Did David Gregory ask David "Obama's Brain" Axelrod a couple tough questions? You people are pathetic.

Seriously, flag burners need to be TAKEN OUT.

Really?

...and just what do you suggest we do specifically?

Look, I don't approve of burning the flag but I will defend the right to do so.

Damage 123 says:

Exotix says " How do you know they are only lefties and not tea baggers too ?"

Because when I watch coverage of the Tea Party Rallies on MSNBC, I see nothing but PEACEFUL activity.

Unlike the lefties, who have a history of this crap. Seriously, flag burners need to be TAKEN OUT. Don't you patriotic Americans agree?

Ever notice you never see them at any protests from the Right ? And if, by some chance there was, I would feel the same in that case.

By the way, saying "teabaggers" turns you on, doesn't it ?

You have a point ... I mean just how fast do you think a teabagger can move ?

Oh Baby ! ... Jus' Damn ... LOL.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2d0ku3o.jpg

Sad.

Damage123 - Breaking windows. assaulting cops, and all-round vandalism...

Although the vast majority of occupiers in other locations have been peaceful, the violent ones in Oakland have been damaging to their supposed cause. I will agree with you the Oakland occupiers have done criminal acts and they should be punished as the rioters they are.

I have never understood the occupy movement. I thought the idea of Bank transfer to credit union day was a good idea. It was more harmful to the big banks then sitting and camping in a park. Facebook and online protests stopped BoA from doing the $5 debit card fee. I think the best way to make a statement is with your dollars by boycott or buying local.

There is nothing wrong with rallies and marches but there is no need for the occupy encampment movement. Unfortunately it does nothing but garner the unwanted rioters and loose cannons that committed these crimes. Too bad those fools have painted a bad face on the real problem that is income inequality.

I would never think to burn a flag but it has been deemed free speech. I support free speech as long as it is not hate speech or inciting violence.

I will grant your next point that the Tea Party never rioted. They showed vile, xenophobic signs and spewed anti-american, anti-obama rhetoric but they did not commit criminal acts. I have to take the good with the bad.

Buck Naked Sr

Betty, I see you are busy posting articles on the MSNBC site, but you are only commenting on this one?

Because this person is probably a FR insider. On Sunday she posted a congratulatory message to someone on the FR staff for the birth of that persons daughter. Since there was no information posted for everyone to know anything about it, it looked obvious that only an insider would have information about the subject. Because Feisty was able to give the first and middle name of the newborn, it appears unlikely that she is not on the staff or an insider in some lesser capacity.

It's not just Oakland:

WASHINGTON DC- An Occupy D.C. protester was shocked by stun gun Sunday afternoon at McPherson Square, as Park Police were handing out fliers about the upcoming Monday deadline on overnight camping.

U.S. Park Police Sergeant David Schlosser tells WTOP the man got angry about the fliers and confronted officers about the ban.

Schlosser says officers used a Taser on the man when he wouldn't comply with police orders.

I was taught that when a Police Officer tells me to do something, I really ought to do it.

Yellowdog-- I'm all for jailing Wall Street crooks when they are found and tried and convicted. But the OccuTwits aren't about that. They're lazy, spoiled, entitlement-minded lefties calling for the destruction of capitalism.

Gosh, as much as I do LOVE the conspiracy thinking from the teanuts, the information about the new baby, INCLUDING THE NAME, was on First Read.

Would you people get a freaking life and quit coming up with untruths about Feisty?

Damage123

Boo hoo hoo. Waaaaah Waaaaah Waaaah.

What happened yesterday? Did David Gregory ask David "Obama's Brain" Axelrod a couple tough questions? You people are pathetic.

I love how you wing nuts have to claim Obama has a "brain" because Bush had one.

Of course I defend their right to do so. I also will defent the right of an ordinary, patriotic citizen to become outraged about it and take matters into their own hands.

No one has the right to "take matters into their own hands."

Damage123

Yellowdog-- I'm all for jailing Wall Street crooks when they are found and tried and convicted. But the OccuTwits aren't about that. They're lazy, spoiled, entitlement-minded lefties calling for the destruction of capitalism.

You have no idea what the "Occupiers" are about. It is NOT about the crap you posted.

I am convinced, Feisty, that these people cannot read. Want to bet that no apology is forthcoming?

White Collar Auto

Houston, what part of "garbage" don't you understand?

What I understand is that your equating the Walker recall with impeachment is garbage.

Damage - Of course I defend their right to do so. I also will defend the right of an ordinary, patriotic citizen to become outraged about it and take matters into their own hands.

Agree with Raddave - People don't have the right to be vigilantes. People should not take matter into their own hands. I personally don't agree with many groups, I don't agree with the anti WTO, or anti G8 crowds when they bust up a town either. Ok to promote different ideas but do it peacefully. I for one can not determine that all of the occupy types are anti-capitalist, perhaps some are. They about bringing awareness to income inequality.

WCA - Wherever it takes place or by whoever people have the right to free speech and to assemble. They do not have the right to commit crimes and the opposition does not have the right to retaliate or teach them a lesson. If the protestors decide to be arrested they should not resist arrest. We have to trust that the police do not use abuse their power in the process.

Ummm. Yes. It is. The overthrow of capitalism can only mean replacing it with...what?....what?....C'mon, lemme hear ya say it. You know you want to.

These spoiled twits need to take a shower and get a job. (My fave Newt quote.) NO ONE is entitled to make a lot of money! Do you lefty crybabys not get that? You're entitled equal opportunity to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Get off the internet. Go get a f***ing job.

NewTEA Gingrich is only symbolic of the battle taking place in the Republican Party. NewTEA Gingrich is searching for relevance - using flawed logic - snarky hyperbole - fringe politics. It is quite clear who NewTEA Gingrich represents - and - who supports NewTEA Gingrich.

The Republican Party needs to decide if they wish to govern - or - wish to destroy the ability of anyone to govern. The debate within the Republican Party is whether Republicans want to return to power - or - if Republicans want to simply destroy government so that power is meaningless.

The question debated between Clinton and Obama during the 2008 Democratic primaries - was - about the readiness of America to accept and elect a minority member of society. The 2008 election demonstrated - beyond doubt or denial - that America has grown as a nation. That America is no longer divided by gender and race stereotyping.

The Republican Party must now decide if the party will be part of that new America - or - if the party will attempt to destroy that new America and remain in the past. The Republican Party must decide whether to join the rest of America in actually addressing social and economic issues that divide us - or - continuing with the politics that make us a smaller, weaker, divided society and nation.

NewTEA Gingrich speaks to the past - as any historian does. NewTEA Gingrich does not represent a way forward for our society and our nation ...

Yellowdog-Mark D

Although the vast majority of occupiers in other locations have been peaceful, the violent ones in Oakland have been damaging to their supposed cause. I will agree with you the Oakland occupiers have done criminal acts and they should be punished as the rioters they are.

I know some of the OWS people have behaved badly, but beware of believing everything you read about it in the corporate media. I listen to Amy Goodman on Pacifica Radio during the morning drive, and she interviewed a OWS person who said that the police have been using a tactic of surrounding protesters, leaving them no way to escape, and then ordering them to disperse. Then wading in with billy clubs and tear gas cannisters to deal with the "disorderly" protesters. According to the woman interviewed, the police used this tactic repeatedly, and its only purpose could have been to provoke a violent reaction from the protesters, justifying mass arrests (and more importantly, generate more bad press for the OWS people.

I'm not saying that you should believe this woman's account completely, but you certainly shouldn't believe the corporate media accounts completely, either, when they're only reporting one side of the story.

There is nothing wrong with rallies and marches but there is no need for the occupy encampment movement. Unfortunately it does nothing but garner the unwanted rioters and loose cannons that committed these crimes. Too bad those fools have painted a bad face on the real problem that is income inequality.

I thought the most effective civil disobedience tactic they've used was "occupying" the houses of people about to be evicted. Occupying public and private park does seem to be a tactic that's worn out its original effectiveness due to the sanitation and crime problems it creates over the long term.

I will grant your next point that the Tea Party never rioted. They showed vile, xenophobic signs and spewed anti-american, anti-obama rhetoric but they did not commit criminal acts. I have to take the good with the bad.

Not completely true. TP people were arrested made in Congressional office building when they were blocking entrances to Congressional offices. There've been the rocks hurled through the windows of Democratic congressmen. Unlike the OWS protesters, the TP people carry guns to intimidate people, and one of these idiot accidentally dropped his gun on the floor at an event held by Gabby Giffords before the incident in which she was gravely wounded. And shouting the "N" word at black congressmen may not be a crime, but it was certainly over the line.

Every word that comes out of their lying mouths is calculated to gin up their hateful 'base'!

Said pot to kettle.

Damage123

Ummm. Yes. It is. The overthrow of capitalism can only mean replacing it with...what?....what?....C'mon, lemme hear ya say it. You know you want to.

These spoiled twits need to take a shower and get a job. (My fave Newt quote.) NO ONE is entitled to make a lot of money! Do you lefty crybabys not get that? You're entitled equal opportunity to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Get off the internet. Go get a f***ing job.

The Occupy movement isn't about overthrowing capitalism to begin with. I see you also see things as black and white. Either we must be capitalistic or communistic.

You're entitled equal opportunity to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Get off the internet. Go get a f***ing job.

You just described what the occupy movement is about, because the 99% have lost that equal opportunity.

Would you people get a freaking life and quit coming up with untruths about Feisty?

Feisty is often the very first comment on First Read articles, so either she is an insider, or her life is so pathetic she happens to be on the computer just when a new article comes out and is first to comment on it. I would rather believe she is an insider.

White Collar Auto

Hmmmm, First Read only covers the Republican primaries (90% of it's stories) and you folks are wondering why 2/3 of the guests on talk shows are Republicans?

The Republican guests on the talk shows spend most of their time attacking President Obama. And I don't recall any such imbalance in favor of the Democrats during the 2004 campaign when the Democrats had a primary and there were no significant Republican primaries because Bush was running as the incumbent. If there had been, the Republicans would certainly have screamed about it long and loudly. I don't know why the Democrats put up with it.

Joe in Albany

I see America headed in the 21^st century if we continue on the lefty liberal, higher taxes, slow economic growth, higher unemployment, govt as nanny, course Barry and the Dems have set the country on.

Meanwhile, lean and hungry countries like China, India and Brazil will own the 21^st century. As will smaller emerging market countries in Asia and Latin America.

And which government from those you listed would you like to mirror?

Once the republican lineup was established, I thought it was a given everyone would then know the republican hierarchy was revealing It's belief that Obama was unbeatable in 2012. You don't run a crowd like this against "An Obama" and expect to win. Media must hype such sorriness solely for the purpose of profit. Too, the republican establishment must use these 3ed stringers as best It can, to block potential losses in Congressional and Senatorial contested seats, as well as various state offices. These are good to rouse the local rabble. Republicans made a fatal mistake by their "govern only against the President" governance. The President did get less done, but it made the republicans look as ugly, and obvious, as failed plastic surgery on the ass of an Orangutan. It was fun for a while, but, as "Louis J" points out, I too am tiring of the whole silly mess. Doesn't really matter which wins. It will only give that one the right to receive a good beating from the President in November.

I love the Occupy Movement! These movements / camps are in most large cities, and most of theses cities are ran by Democrats. Washington D.C., Chicago, Oakland, Portland, ect.., ect... I love the fact democrat politicians have to deal with the idiots they indoctrinate. They're all about the little guy until that little guy is $h!tting in the park. They're all about the poor until they need campaign money and need to go knocking on Goldman Sachs door!

Hi Houston - Actually occupying a foreclosed house 'en masse' seems like a good idea. Haven't heard of it before.

Crowd control is something I would not want to try to do. I'm not giving the cops a pass, but you do understand that they are outnumbered.

My overall point is that not everyone is going to sing Kumbaya and act like a perfect citizen over the long haul. As you note the park sanitation and crime issues are problems. I think they should concentrate on marches and rallies. The longer an occupy event lasts the more chances are that bad things happen.

the election for president is one big theather show.the corp media slimbags and with election fraud.it will be nearly slim odds to replace one puppet president for another.but that dont mean we stop.ron paul is on the grand stage to teach us americans the true leasons and common sense so many of us have forgotten.we need to take over the local elections and grow there.teach the local police and sheriffs on there oaths they have taken.and remind them oath before orders.and get "corp" out of the media.i for one dont trust confrimed liars.the freedom movenment is growing stronger and stronger everday.

R estore
O ur
N ation
P rotect
A merica
U nderstand
L iberty

Doesn't really matter which wins. It will only give that one the right to receive a good beating from the President in November.

Yes, because Obama's successes are so numerous. Considering the economy only started getting better when the Republicans started "governance against the president" not allowing him to get as much done. Him not getting much done is working out better then when he was getting stuff done. Maybe instead of complaining about him golfing every other day we should encourage it.

Of course you don't "remember it" Houston.

Most here remember only what they want to remember or hear.

My favorite posts are from those on the Left saying "They are hearing" that something is taking place.

When you only listen to one side, that is all you hear.

Yellowdog,

I agree people have the right to free speech and to PEACEFULLY assemble, the OWS in Oakland has done neither. They have destroyed private and public property, assaulted police officers, interfered with the public's right to use the sidewalks, streets and businesses in the area of their rioting. They also failed to have proper permits to assemble.

Maybe you are o.k. with the fact that they have cost the city of Oakland over 5 million dollars so far, money that could have been used for more important things that people in the city of Oakland need.

Your last sentence in the 2d paragraph "They are about bringing awareness to income inequality." What in the hell does that mean, maybe if they would go out and get a job, work hard and do something constructive they would get paid, but all these idiots want is for the government to give them everything from cradle to grave.

LogicReguired

Doesn't really matter which wins. It will only give that one the right to receive a good beating from the President in November.

Yes, because Obama's successes are so numerous. Considering the economy only started getting better when the Republicans started "governance against the president" not allowing him to get as much done. Him not getting much done is working out better then when he was getting stuff done. Maybe instead of complaining about him golfing every other day we should encourage it.

That is not true. The economy has been getting better since the summer of 2009.

@Damage123,

Asking tough questions is one thing but repeating GOP false statements and talking points. Is not true journalism nor is it true reporting. But I can understand you being upsets about most people (except the GOP) not wanting to hear lies and false statements.

forgot the parks-occupy congress or the senate.they are a bunch of criminals cowards.it is time to confront them.peacefully of course

This is from an article in London ...

"Don’t worry, said Matthew Norman in the London Independent. The fact that Gingrich is the latest threat to Mitt Romney’s inevitability just “confirms how inevitable” Romney’s nomination is. The thrice-married, ethically challenged Gingrich is unlikable in the extreme. Which means the nominee will be Romney, “the slimiest, phoniest opportunist to run for president since...well, ever.” So sit back and enjoy this circus passing for a presidential election. It can’t possibly end in a GOP victory. Can it?"

How embarrassing ...................

And this is from Germany ...

The Republican presidential contest in America is a “freak show,” said Marc Pitzke in the German Der Spiegel. The candidates vie with one another to spew the most outrageous hard-right positions, denying evolution while endorsing torture and joking about electrocuting illegal immigrants.
How did a major party in the world’s sole superpower become a “club of liars, debtors, betrayers, adulterers, exaggerators, hypocrites, and ignoramuses?” These know-nothings are enabled by a U.S. press that has been “neutered by the demands of political correctness” so that it can’t say what’s obvious: These people are daft! Instead, it “proclaims one clown after the next to be the new front-runner.” The current favorite, Newt Gingrich, is actually considered an intellectual merely because he can create sentences with multiple clauses. Scarcely a one has even the most basic grasp of foreign policy. One said Africa is a country, another that the Taliban rule in Libya. Collectively, “they expose a political, economic, geographic, and historical ignorance that makes George W. Bush look like a scholar.”

How embarrassing ...........

White Collar Auto.....I recently did an inquiry as what the difference was between impeachment and the recall process, and this pretty much explains it:

Impeachment is an act taken by Congress against a government official for wrongdoing which could lead to criminal charges or removal from office. A recall is an action taken by voters to call a government official into question and possibly have them removed from office.

Impeachment is actually involves hearings by Congress to determine any criminal wrongdoing, and is carried out by the Congress. I believe it's basically just a congressional reprimand, and doesn't necessarily mean the person being impeached is being forced out of office....it's more of a "No Confidence" vote.

The recall is an option in some states, where the voters themselves can take it upon themselves to force a new election process, when they see that the person voted in originally has not performed his duties in the manner he/she had promised in their election campaign for office. Case in point: Governor Scott Walker. Had he not been a wolf in sheep's clothing and admitted from the start of his campaign that his agenda was to eliminate collective bargaining rights for state workers, he would never have been elected governor of Wisconsin. And that's just the start! He did this within the first 6 months of his term....imagine how much carnage he could cause the working Middle Class in the rest of his time in office!! The "people" saw him for what he truly was....and because they were in a state where recalls are allowed, the "people" acted swiftly and VERY decisively to call for a new election.

Lot of buzz up top about " Meet The Press" host "David Gregory". Since the days of watching him as a correspondent I never felt he had much, if anything in common with real Journalism. As a consequence I have only watched MTP twice since He became host. Hate to see anyone lose their job, but this man needs to get out of that business. He simply does not know how to be a Journalist. Chris Matthews, on the other hand does, even if He jumps in and answers most of his own questions He puts to his guests. Generally gives a better and more coherent answer than the guests. He does need to quit palling with the likes of Pat Buchanan though. Few are interested in the views of that old racist relic.

Sfcret - Your last sentence in the 2d paragraph "They are about bringing awareness to income inequality."

It means that they are making people think about the issue. Much like the Tea party got people to think about government bailouts and to think about a supposed "government overtaken" health care system, the intent of the OWS movement was to make people aware or think about their main issue.

The status quo is simple to see the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. Yes there is little movement between the groups. Now howver, the middle class have realized that they are shifting downward. The middle class has always been a strength to the country, its back bone. The recession and lack of jobs is hitting them hard as they lose their jobs, their 401k's, their savings etc. As a result the OWS wanted to make their point. Their attempt was to bring up the fact that the middle class is being threatened. In a consumer driven economy that is not a good thing.

Don't know where you think I said I'm ok with those portion of OWS that cause monetary damages.

Louis J,

I don't see why you think the MSM would want to take Gingrich down. A long nail-biter primary would be in their best interests. A three way race would be a goldmine for the media with non-stop coverage and pundits.

The GOP mainstream and a few other groups would like to take out Gingrich, and maybe Fox news, but the rest of the media both national and worldwide would love a long drawn out slugfest.

He simply does not know how to be a Journalist. Chris Matthews, on the other hand does

LMAO! Chris Matthews!!!??? Not even Chris Matthews thinks he's a real journalist. I didn't see the Gregory interview but it sounds like he didn't ask the Democrats pre approved questions and is now being scolded. I'm sure he will read from the White House cue cards next time!

newscover,

Thank you for the weigh in from the foreign press.

It is embarrassing to have this cast of characters representing the GOP's best and brightest....

By Damage123 ~ Of course I defend their right to do so.

I also will defent the right of an ordinary, patriotic citizen to become outraged about it and take matters into their own hands

Let's be fair ... how many * designated-Libs * or OWS'rs have you seen toting guns and placards of nazis looking like the joker doing monkey-acts to this thing called the 2012 GOP / Tea Bag Prez hopeful caucus or debates or townhalls or any right-wing events ?

So shall it be written............so shall it be done!

It's all a ruse folks, orchestrated politics as usual in the good ole U.S. of A.

Change? Don't bet on it from this administration or any other puppet politician.

We'll get what they give us and nothing less....or more!

Thank you for the weigh in from the foreign press.

It is embarrassing to have this cast of characters representing the GOP's best and brightest....

I heard Al Jazeera had negative things to say as well!!!??? Seriously, European countries are much more liberal then even States like California. To quote some left wing journalist in a liberally dominated country is just silly. Besides who gives a $h!t what London or Germany thinks? If you care so much about their opinion maybe you should let them vote in our elections! Not one Republican would of ever been elected if Europe was allowed to vote in our elections which probably sounds good to some of you, but when I look at Europe I'm glad we aren't them.

lol so newt called romney a liberal.theres no bigger insult to a constipated conservative then being called a liberal.how dare a conservative think of someone other then themselves.a wall street insider,multimillionaire is now a liberal like buffet.what do you expect from a moral degenerate like newt

To all Ron Paul supporters,

He is a great candidate who has some excellent ideas and makes very valid points. It was great to have in the debates and do so well because he has helped move the discussion from same old same old Republican politics to something a little more substantive. But with all that being said if he doesn't get the nomination you will have three choices, 1.) vote for the Republican nominee / Helping to defeat Obama 2.) Vote for Obama/ Helping re elect Obama 3.) Not voting, or voting for Paul as a third party guy and essentially Helping re-elect Obama. I know many of you are not ready to hear this yet but if Obama gets four more years not even Ron Paul could fix this country.

LogicReguired "Not one Republican would of ever been elected if Europe was allowed to vote in our elections"

And they would be constantly correct!!!!! They said Bush was an Idiot ... correct again!!!!!!!

White Collar Auto

Of course you don't "remember it" Houston.

Most here remember only what they want to remember or hear.

Then please refresh our memories: Produce the evidence that Democrats were more frequent guests on Sunday talk shows than Republicans in 2004 (not just the usual whining about nonexistent "liberal bias").

When you only listen to one side, that is all you hear.

Oh, we hear plenty from David Gregory and his many Republican guests and the panels weighted in favor of Republicans on his show and the others talk shows. Everyone knows about "class warfare" and how Obama's choking off free enterprise with burdensome regulations and his out of control spending, how he wants everyone dependent on Big Government for food stamps, and all the other totally debunked lies that Republicans keep parroting.

Comenting on the Oakland OWS movement. The rioters were largely from out of town. These are trouble makers and would be somewhere else making trouble were it not for the agressiveness of the Oakland OWS in the first place. Yes, some were locals but most were not. As for burning the flag I don't like it one bit but they have the right to do so. They do it to get attention. They want you to react. By ignoring them we win they don't. Unfortunately business people whose small businesses are in the path of their marches and in the area of Frank Ogawa Plaza where they congregate before their marches are losing business. They are causing problems for the very people they are supposedly supporting. One might wonder if they are paid to do that by bankers, the ones most likely to lose out if the OWS movement gains more success.

My suggestion to them is to occupy the sidewalk in front of stock exchange, brokerages, big banks and those who actually are the "enemy" and leave the rest of the businesses and people alone. They are not gaining any friends by their riots. I sympathize with OWS generally but such action is not helpful in maintianing my support.

White Collar Auto is going to have a hard time proving his claim that the talk shows were biased in favor of the Democrats in 2004 because they were having the primaries, because the bias in favor of Republicans was almost as bad then as it is now:

http://mediamatters.org/reports/sundayshowreport/

These numbers follow closely the results from the first four years of the Bush administration. From 2001 to 2004, 40 percent of the guests on the three major network programs were Republicans and conservatives, compared with 29 percent for Democrats and progressives. During Bill Clinton's second term, the balance was more equal, but with the edge still going to Republicans and conservatives.

Logic Required,

"Besides who gives a $h!t what London or Germany thinks?"

I do hope you are an independent.

The GOP have enough trouble with their base these days.

I do hope you are an independent. Actually I am a registered independent, although I will admit the last democrat I voted for was Bill Clinton. (Didn't vote in Bush vs Gore election) and voted for McCain, but only because I knew he was going to lose.

The GOP have enough trouble with their base these days. The Republican base has always been hard to please, you have the fiscal conservatives, the social conservatives, the hawks, and the anti government folks. You can't please all of them, and unlike many democrats who vote for someone they may not completely agree with but is a democrat, many on the right have some purity standard that needs to be met. It's silly and doesn't help them in the long run but you can't blame them for having principles.

I personally just vote for whoever is the lessor of two evils, it's not much but it's better then not voting at all.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

I can't believe that Callista pays what she pays to get that remarkable ugly 'do.

Oh I don't know, did you see what her hair used to look like (during the adultery phase of their relationship)? As for Limbaugh, remember how long his legitimate reporting days as sportscaster at ESPN lasted? And you'd think he would have learned his lesson about bigotry (and "ditto" for his listeners -- Limbaugh is a reject).

I find speculation about Santorum's followers as getting behind Gingrich odd. The exist polls in SC showed the number one issue for Santorum voters was good character. If these voters can't support a Mormon, they're likely to just stay home on election day.

The matter of influence on our elections has skyrocketed from mere ballot tampering (Florida, Ohio, etc. in 2000) to Super PACs (allowing possible foreign influence) to the media to so-called "establishment" machinations. The media does not have as much influence as campaign financing, but it is true that the media has not been fair if only by the fact that a lot of candidates were never in debates or just ignored like Ron Paul.

Add to that the shrinking middle class, and democracy is holding on by a thread. Throw the Teapublicans and their FOX Noise/Hate Radio and right-leaning SCOTUS favoring Citizen's United out. We can't sustain any more of their destruction. Obama/Biden - 2012!

LogicReguired "Not one Republican would of ever been elected if Europe was allowed to vote in our elections"

And they would be constantly correct!!!!! They said Bush was an Idiot ... correct again!!!!!!!

If they are so smart and their countries so great what are you doing here? I'm not a love it or live it guy, but if their was a conservative, capitalist country, with my values out in the world I would totally move. Maybe United States and Canada can come up with some trade agreement and we can split into conservative and liberal counties. You can have health care, high taxes on the rich, and we can have freedom. Oh well it doesn't matter, we will all be speaking Chinese a couple of decades from now anyways.

Nerm_L

...The Republican Party needs to decide if they wish to govern - or - wish to destroy the ability of anyone to govern. The debate within the Republican Party is whether Republicans want to return to power - or - if Republicans want to simply destroy government so that power is meaningless.

The question debated between Clinton and Obama during the 2008 Democratic primaries - was - about the readiness of America to accept and elect a minority member of society. The 2008 election demonstrated - beyond doubt or denial - that America has grown as a nation. That America is no longer divided by gender and race stereotyping.

The Republican Party must now decide if the party will be part of that new America - or - if the party will attempt to destroy that new America and remain in the past. The Republican Party must decide whether to join the rest of America in actually addressing social and economic issues that divide us - or - continuing with the politics that make us a smaller, weaker, divided society and nation.

Well said!

Regarding the Occupy movement, whether it's Arab Spring or some other uprising, the growing income inequality is at the basis of it. If inequality is not corrected, the uprisings will increase and will become more violent. History tells us this. The Teapublicans cling to old failed policies that cause inequality. If we as a nation are to have any hope of strengthening our middle class, we must reelect President Obama and give him a congress that will work with him.

Millions and millions of dollars, thrown to the wind for what? Mitt? Newt?

Citizens United did not get the biggest bang for the bucks, now did they?

I bet the Koch brothers are drowning their sorrows, in Texas tea right now.

What about those two usurpers of middle class freedoms?

They must be the most hateful, vindictive millionaires of all time.

David and Charles, I have written you for money. I ask you just to give it to me.

If you have money to waste give me a million, after taxes, of course.

I have worked a better part of my life as a nurse. I have SAVED lives. I have made a difference.

There are thousands and thousands of people, just like me, who have given of themselves and asked

for nothing. So instead of wasting all your inheritance, on Mitt and Newt, give it up, to

people who merit a reward. Or better yet, give it to the starving children all over this world.

Create scholarships, for those who want an education and pay off the debts, for those who have

education loans. Repair a street or a bridge. Fill the food banks, build housing for the homeless.

But, to continue to waste your daddy's money, on the likes of Mitt and Newt is an abomination!

David and Charles, do something decent for a change. Try it and maybe, you might have a chance,

to know what it is like, to be kind, giving, generous, helpful, loving, sharing, compassionate,

understanding, and yes, maybe even charitable. What would Jesus do? Ask your 'Christian' right.

Logic Required,

Thanks for responding to my post about your political persuasion.

I am a liberal Democrat, but you already knew that. :)

The Occupy movement is our strongest advocacy for returning to capitalism.

The Occupy movement is confronting 'free enterprise' economics. The Occupy movement is confronting those that make money from money. The Occupy movement is confronting those that redistribute wealth through profit models without contributing anything. The Occupy movement is confronting those that devalue work and glorify prostitution on Wall Street.

It is not class warfare -- the debate is between the 'liberal rich' and the 'conservative rich'. The President is not engaging in class warfare - he is calling for people in his own class to be more responsible.

Fairness is not about 'rich' and 'poor'. Fairness - income equality - people instead of profits - are debates about right and wrong.

LogicReguired ... "I'm not a love it or live it guy" Then what are you? ... making a statement like "If they are so smart and their countries so great what are you doing here???"

You consistently talk out of both sides of your mouth!

You say that you're an independent ... that's a laugh by the way you write ...

But ... the same way you feel about them there foreigners ... who cares!

But caring about what others care about our actions ... might require a tee bit of Logic!

Judy,

i too see giving millions to a superpac as such a waste.

But those who fund them are paying , betting that those dollars will elect or keep the elected official in power.

Both parties do it. I am all for real change in the fianicing of campaigns.

Maybe United States and Canada can come up with some trade agreement and we can split into conservative and liberal counties. You can have health care, high taxes on the rich, and we can have freedom.

Logic,

Freedom? You would have freedom? Are you completely ignorant of EVERY Republican principle?

So you would have freedom for the government to tell you who you can love. Freedom for the government to tell you who you can marry. Freedom for the government to tell you what to do with your own body. Freedom for the government to force you to have rape babies. Freedom for the government to tell you what you can put in your own body. Freedom for the government to tell you what you are allowed to see and hear on TV. Freedom for the government to control your own, personal sex life. Freedom for the government to force the religion they want on you. Freedom for the government to force the religion they want on your children.

Man, you have got a f***ed up definition of "freedom". Basically you want the government to have full control of your personal life, but leave your money alone. I guess we see where your priorities in life are... money is the only thing you care about. And you are dumb enough to believe that kind of government control is called "freedom".

It's funny how MSN is ignoring the story of how Obama has been declared ineligible to be on the ballot in Georgia because of his citizenship. Highlights from the court hearing, all admitted into evidence, all under oath, all verified:

- His SS# was issued to a Connecticut man born in 1890

- Obama's SS#, per Homeland Security, does not pass E-Verify... it comes back as fraudulent

- Obama's birth certificate does NOT match the birth certificates of other people born in the same hospital on the same day as Obama. Documents experts testified it is a forgery. And a bad one at that! White around the letters shows obvious photoshopping.

He also ignored a subpoena to appear, and his lawyer also did not show. That means that any appeal will be based on the facts introduced into the record at the hearing. By not having at least his lawyer appear, he forfeited his right to dispute those facts.

I know, I know, you guys will scream tinfoil hat or something. It's hilarious really. Like when Woody Harrelson's character in the movie 2012 turned out to be right all along.

Seriously, google it yourselves. It's no joke.

Poor Obama. All his stories are about to unravel.

Popcorn!

(Apologies to the other posters in this thread, no doubt my comments will get the thread collapsed by the cowards who can't stand people that don't agree with them. Google it though, it's all true.)

Indie party

In the most free country in the world (sarcasm) you also cannot enjoy a treat of wine and cheese in a public park, you cannot ride your motorcycle on a sunny day without a helmet, You cannot drive two blocks to a pharmacy to pick up your meds without a seatbelt, you cannot smoke within 25 feet of a doorway, you cannot take your dog into commuity pub or pizza parlor, you cannot gather in a park to protest injustice without being clubbed by the police. etc. etc. etc. Let's have more of the party of NO. after all they know what is best for all of us.

It amazes me at the people on here, that watch Fox news, & believe they actually want Obama out of office.

Fox news is just like any other BIG corporation, they're all about PROFIT. Since Obama took office Fox's ratings have been out the roof, with their Obama charade. So, do you really think they want Obama out? No, they want you uneducated brain washed people to hate Ron Paul, and vote for Romney. Not one well informed person should willingly vote for Romney. All I hear is Paul is a loon, he's a nut job, or he's racist. Not once have I got an answer, from anyone in the Gop, that can back it up with facts. Stop being f'n parrots, and actually listen to these people talk. Romney is not any better than Obama, and would govern the same damn way. So either stop whining about Obama, or vote for the person that actually would govern in a conservative manner. It's funny to me how Newt, and Romney have began parroting Ron Paul. Hillary Clinton, of all people, actually gave Ron Paul a compliment the other day about his supporters. Not one of these other candidates have the grassroots support of Dr Paul, which Mrs. Clinton was even able to acknowledge, unlike Fox news. Paul is the only one, with the know how to fix this economy, & divide in our country right now. Should I listen to those cowards on TV, who say Ron Paul's foreign policies are ignorant, or should I listen to the military who support Dr. Paul more than any other candidate, or should I listen to Dr. Paul who actually served in the military unlike the rest of the field? So who is really the nut job???

Ron Paul, the Champion of the Constitution and the Thomas Jefferson of our day, is a true American patriot and statesman. I am sick of oath-betraying, constitution abrogating, warmongering establishment neoconservatives posing as Republicans. Wake up America! Ron Paul for President in 2012.

The GOP is wasting your time.

Occupy the MF's out.

Don't compromise. Any hat the pols wear.

Hit me up, DDI buds. Been a while!

FB: raleighoccupare

@Alil Common Sense -- You do know that Social Security numbers are recycled. You do know that is why using Social Security numbers alone for identification is a problem. You do know that is one of the glaring weaknesses in the E-Verify system. Of course, you know all this.

Otherwise you are simply parroting the IDeologically Out of Touch talking points of fringe politics.

If you did not know that you just made an argument against E-Verify - NewTEA Gingrich wants your vote!!

Uh oh, just had a flashback. Are we going to witness another few years of birther-mania? I was at least glad we moved on to people opposing the President's policies.

Hopefully it was just some bad acid from the early 90's popping in to say hello.

Hey Nerm, SS#'s are NEVER recycled, And you spelled "IDOT in bold, I think you were trying to spell "idiot". Just a guess.

Da Noid:

It is true that Gingrich never misses an opportunity for hyperbole. In fact, all he can do lately is say that Romney lies about everything. But the truth is, if you play back some of Romney's speeches in 1994 when he ran against Ted Kennedy, you would certainly think that he was to the left of many southern and midwestern Democrats. He was pretending then to be a Jacob Javitts or a Lowell Weiker (almost liberal) in the proud tradition of some old Yankee Republicans. And Romney has, for the most part, renounced that earlier incarnation of himself. Romney is a complete chameleon.

beyond dem

I disagree,...a complete chameleon is usually undetected. Romney, not so much.

I worry about the person who says ANYTHING for votes; because he really has NO CORE VALUES,...

Just a reed in a stream,...heavily polluted by corporate waste and the money,...let's not forget the favors all that money has bought,....

Got news for you. As a Republican, he is as far left as he can get.

It's funny how MSN is ignoring the story of how Obama has been declared ineligible to be on the ballot in Georgia because of his citizenship. Highlights from the court hearing, all admitted into evidence, all under oath, all verified:

- His SS# was issued to a Connecticut man born in 1890

- Obama's SS#, per Homeland Security, does not pass E-Verify... it comes back as fraudulent

- Obama's birth certificate does NOT match the birth certificates of other people born in the same hospital on the same day as Obama. Documents experts testified it is a forgery. And a bad one at that! White around the letters shows obvious photoshopping.

He also ignored a subpoena to appear, and his lawyer also did not show. That means that any appeal will be based on the facts introduced into the record at the hearing. By not having at least his lawyer appear, he forfeited his right to dispute those facts.

I know, I know, you guys will scream tinfoil hat or something. It's hilarious really. Like when Woody Harrelson's character in the movie 2012 turned out to be right all along.

Seriously, google it yourselves. It's no joke.

Poor Obama. All his stories are about to unravel.

Popcorn!

(Apologies to the other posters in this thread, no doubt my comments will get the thread collapsed by the cowards who can't stand people that don't agree with them. Google it though, it's all true.)

BeyondDemocrat - Romney a Chameleon or a Newt? Isn't it scary that they both can change completely like they do????

What next? Maybe he will call him a progressive or even worse. like, like, like, maybe a Democrat....

Same old liberal media crap. I will be glad if the time ever comes that our media is no longer biased, and just prints the news. Gingrich is winning!!!!, not losing in Florida. The media can not subvert the results of the election like they can their phony polls.

@Alil Common Sense -- You do know that Social Security numbers are recycled. You do know that is why using Social Security numbers alone for identification is a problem. You do know that is one of the glaring weaknesses in the E-Verify system. Of course, you know all this.

Otherwise you are simply parroting the IDeologically Out of Touch talking points of fringe politics.

If you did not know that you just made an argument against E-Verify - NewTEA Gingrich wants your vote!!

Here is the scenario I envision January 2013 Mitt Romney President Marco Rubio vice president and yeeeha Ron Paul BUDGET DIRECTOR!!

Nerm you are incorrect. I invite you to research further and disprove what I am saying. It may be a learning experience for you. The entire hearing is on youtube if you want to see for yourself what happened, and draw your own conclusions. And look, I didn't even call you an idiot!

@Alil Common Sense -- SSA has issued a little more than 450 million numbers. The permutations for the 9 digit SSN is close to 1 billion unique numbers (not all numbers are issued). However, the numbering scheme used by SSA reduces the available numbers since geographical and 'group' data are included.

While SSA declares that numbers are not reissued - their numbering scheme does not allow that. Either SSA is not actually using the numbering scheme - or - some numbers are re-issued.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html <--- see question 20
http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/geocard.html

I have encountered duplicate SSN in genealogical searches - and - thought it was odd. SSA did make some policy changes after 1972 - perhaps policies changed at that time. I have personally seen records with duplicate SS numbers - so I know they exist.

He called you an IDOT. He can't even spell idiot.

Nerm, try to read this very slowly.....

SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS ARE NEVER RECYCLED!!! EVER!!!

You are incorrect.

Still, way to attempt to deflect from your hero being kept off the ballot in Georgia. He couldn't even get a job at McDonald's using E-Verify. Which is a very fine system, and seems to work pretty well, IMHO. Obama has a stolen SS# from a Dead Guy. Admitted into evidence in court, under oath.

Alil, Alil, Alil, you know, I can almost admire how despite all veted evidence to the contrary, despite common sense, and yes, common decency, you and your small band of conspiracists insist the President of the United States is not really the President, not really an American, (and quite possibly, a hologram?)He is, after all, half-black, and what mother from Kansas gives birth to a son in the dubious American state of HAWAII? For heaven's sake, he even set foot OUTSIDE the country and admits it!! I mean which is more plausible, right? That a vast international conspiracy 50 years ago declared a baby Barrack would be a future president, and decided to gin up a birth certificate as an American so that he might be able to one day graduate Harvard, teach Chicago law school, gain a seat in the US Senate and then be positioned to fool an entire great nation so that he might secretly lead a muslim cabal to destroy democracy (pausing only to lull us into a false sense of security by beginning an economic recovery, ending two wars, taking out America's worst enemies, saving the banks AND the auto industry?) Or, stay with me here, (option two): that the haters on the extreme end of an already extreme political party know they cannot win on the issues, on facts, or on decency. I'm going to go out on a limb here and pick option two.

Ap, you are absolutely correct. Alil and his small band of conspiracists always come up with this BS that don't mean a hill of beans. President Obama won fair and square, (not with the help of the Supreme Court.) Let's talk about the real isues. The Do-Nothings don't give a hoot about you unless you are of the 1%, all they want is your vote. Wake up and smell the coffee.

@Alil Common Sense

You wrote earlier,

"I invite you to research further and disprove what I am saying. It may be a learning experience for you. The entire hearing is on youtube if you want to see for yourself what happened, and draw your own conclusions. And look, I didn't even call you an idiot!"

I have gone to youtube to find videos of the proceedings that you speak of to no avail. I have searched on google for the same, all I find on google are right wing blogs full of wishful thinking regarding the status of Obama's citizenship.

Please, be so kind as to provide a link so that the viewing audience can enjoin you. Otherwise, concede the fact that you are an...................

hey Alot of lack of common sense . Post a link dudette or you are just blowing smoke as usual. And before to google it . I did NOT make these silly accusations . You did , Put up or shut up .

To Me a vote for Mitt is a vote for Obama!! Mitt is the biggest Lib on the republican side. Fiesty Redhead I wish you were human. Only a Dem!!!! Popcorn anyone!!!!

Chuck - 1377587 You are right on your post.

AP - Despite WHAT vetted evidence to the contrary? No such "vetted" evidence exists.

carpenter - blowing smoke as usual? When have I ever "blown smoke" before?

You guys try to dispute my points but you offer nothing factual, no tangible argument, just innuendos and snide smears.

*sigh*

Lazyheads.

part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOcpn-E_JAY

part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDOml8NqZqE

Sure, sure, just a bunch of nutbags right? Rationalize, spin, do whatever protects your unshakable faith in Obama. I know you would all hate to admit you have been taken in by a slick talking fraud. Because that would reflect badly on you, right? For being that gullible? But guess what?

Obama's little Georgia problem is NOT going away. And it's just the first domino in the chain.

Popcorn!

They all are directed at porn sites!

Lols at Utah.

Sure, try to hide the truth some more. They are NOT porn, they are youtube.

part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIHMZmlwAg

part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-CzIpm5vWQ

part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-o2M4Pszv4&context=C33ca0dbADOEgsToPDskKOOsakDBcA9UQdDamuYmOV

part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2OrGv7zKTM&context=C3f62039ADOEgsToPDskIJEUY9HeqHtuW_f4GLV75i

I trust you are all of strong enough minds not to be distracted by the slanted right text on the screen?

Hey, how come the mainstream media isn't reporting on this? I mean, it's kind of a big deal, right?

After a short review of the pornsite links posted by Alil Common Sense, I can attest that I saw none of the documents placed into evidence as certified, nor were they exemplified as official documents, whereupon a juror could make a true and unbiased decision. Furthermore, this appeared to be a preliminary court proceeding. And, actually, a true waste of time, especially in a normal court proceeding where the Hawaii officials that have his true records show up as witnesses for the true record.

Looked like the typical Georgia all white lynching of a black man, too me. Give up, conspiracy theory peeps!

Not only that, you need a better video editor, looks kinda juvenile.

Alil: we're supposed to "dispute" the absurdity of your racist claim of international conspiracies??? Oh you are cute for a wacko! (have you figured out that grassy knoll thing yet?)

(hm....Alil....sounds...vaguely.....not....American.....can you prove that you were born here?)

AP - YES! I posted proof of the hearings, just as you asked. You, you have nothing to dispute it.

All you can do is cry racism. Your race card has been declined. Do you have something else you can use?

And Utah, that was a 3 hour hearing, there IS NO WAY you watched it all. I suggesst parts 4 and 5 as they are especially damaging to The President.

Video quality? Now you're just grasping at straws.

The judge was going to grant a summary judgement for the plaintiffs, since neither the defendant or his lawyer appeared in court. However, the plaintiffs insisted on holding the hearing in order to get the evidence on record. The State's Atty General has already stated publicly that he will follow the reccomendations of the court.

Cry cry, Obama's not eligible to be President. Not because he is black. Because he is not a Natural Born Citizen per the SCOTUS in Minor v Happerstat.

Like I said, Obama's Georgia problem is only going to get bigger.

If these polls are official, I'm moving out of the US. I won't stand for any dumbass that votes for Romney, gingrich, or santorum..Iceland here i come!!

All of you guys calling this pron, to you I'm sure it is, it this is true, then we as a country have a major problem.....

I clicked all the links, it appears to me to be a court hearing and appears to be exactly what is claimed, I will not comment on the validity of the subject matter, but they are what he claims video's of a court hearing concerning the election.

I hope it ain't so....

@Alil Common Sense -- I am not attempting to defend President Obama. The President is quite capable of defending himself during the political campaign. That is sort of the idea behind political campaigns ...

Apparently the Republican champion of small, divisive politics will have a chance to confront Obama with your 'evidence' - face to face. Unfortunately the Republicans are having a difficult time selecting who can best present the smallest and most divisive arguments against the President ...

As to your assertions about SS numbers -

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ssn.asp

I don't like Romney but hes better than a dirtbag like Newt.

Nerm, did you really just link to snopes, which quotes wikipedia? Lols. The snopes article states : "The premise of this of this claim is also flawed in concept, as Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the united states..." Now the word citizen is a link to another snopes article! And people were questioning MY sources.

Say, who owns snopes anyways?

SS #'s are NEVER recycled. Evidence was presented in court in Atlanta that Obama filed taxes in 2009, the last year that records were available, using a dead mans SS#.

As far as wether or not he is a natural born citizen?

Well that's what the Judge will decide, not you, and not me. Based on the evidence.

The ruling will be issued Feb 4th.

Stay Tuned! Make sure and look really hard for it, because I can gaurantee you that unless thing's break Obama's way, the news of that will be BURIED.... deeper than the marianas trench.

Funny the way the mainstream media isn't covering this. Isn't it funny, don't you guys think? I mean, it's kind of a big deal, right?

All eyes on Atlanta!

And because I can't help myself....... Ron Paul or Hilary 2012!

@Alil Common Sense -- Wikipedia cites external sources of info - so you can do your own research. Of course that might require some effort ...

You discount Wikipedia but all you got are YouTube videos, blog spots, and lunatic fringe web sites? Perry Mason showed all sorts of court room drama - that doesn't make it real. 'Fair and Balanced' is not covering this story. The RNC mentions nothing. Even the Birchers and TEA Partiers are quiet. Google is your friend.

Not only is this huge story 'blacked out' in the media - your guys are totally ignoring you ...

Feed the crickets before you leave ...

------------------------------------

P.S. Obama does not need to win any primaries to be nominated. The great hope among Republicans appears to be that Romney will be defeated at the convention - no matter how many primaries he wins. That seems to be the last hope for Ron Paul - he certainly won't win primaries. Party primaries and nominating conventions are conducted by party rules - not the same laws that govern elections. You guys waste a lot of time because you do not know how the process works. Very entertaining, though - thanks for that ...

Nerm, your arguments are specious and weak. Perry Mason? Really?

All I got is youtube? Live video of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED??? That's ALL I got?

Google is your friend too, Nerm, even though you abuse it constantly. Sice you're too weak minded to do your own research, I'll save you the trouble. Snopes is 13 years old, it was founded by a husband and wife, the loan they got for it was... way too much to go into here.

Bottom Line = David P. Mikkelson went to Harvard with.....wait for it......... Obama.

Perhaps when he stands underneath the Bank Of America Logo, and the lobbyists are looking down from the skyboxes they got for a measly million dollar "donation", at Bank of America Stadium in Charlotte, maybe, just maybe then Nerm you will begin to suspect what he REALLY is. Sadly, I doubt it.

For the record, I consider myself a liberal.

I am a card carrying Union member, I marched with OWS once, and Occupy Boston 3x.

But this President is not a liberal. He extended The Patriot Act for four more years, and all of it's electronic surveillance rights. The government can tap your phone, your email, your cell, it's crazy. Before they needed a warrant from a Judge.

Then he had his "healthcare" that included giving the IRS authority to check your bank accounts and grab your loot right out of there. Before the IRS had to show cause. Now they don't. This violates your Constitutional right against unreasonable search and seizure.

Next up he signed into law the NDAA. This repeals the Posse Comitatus and The Bill Of Rights! It allows the US Miltary to be deployed in the Homeland against citizens in police functions. It also allows for indefinite detention of US Citizens without due process! Scary huh? The government can now legally send troops into your home in the middle of the night and make you *poof*..... disappear. No phone call, no lawyer.

Constitutional Scholar my a$$.

He violated his sworn oath to uphold The Constitution by signing this into law.Think this doesn't apply to you? Do you have more than 7 days worth of food in your house? CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE A TERRORIST!!!

All returning Service members will be placed on a terrorist watch list. Thanks for your Service! Heck, the government should just spit on them in person.

Here, maybe Jon Stewart can explain to you in a more lighthearted manner just how badly your civil rights have been raped by the Obama administration. I swear, he's like Bush on Steroids.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-7-2011/arrested-development---one-way-train-to-gitmo

Alil = Orly Taitz

yeah, she had her day in court,...before she was bounced,...

any moron can file a suit. any moron can get a docket date and show up. any moron can stage the same.

At this point, NOT A SINGLE moron has been able to get a JUDGE to take up Birtherism. Hmmm? wonder why THAT is?

Haters Hate,...and then out of desparation, they lie. incessantly, constantly and almost pathologically. makes America great, right? lololol

the tirade certainly matches the 'drapes':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Taitz

Daily Kos:

"It not about winning here anymore," one Romney staffer told BuzzFeed. "It's about destroying Gingrich — and it's working."

"In other words, the one thing Mitt Romney's campaign is worried about ... is a viable alternative to Mitt Romney. It's either that ... or Mitt Romney is just a ****."

__________

Money saved Romney. Lots and lots and lots of money.

He is as unlikeable as he always was.

pat what is your take on Romney's job as your Gov?

Dissatisfaction with the current crop of Republican candidates is growing

And yet we are on our way to another record turnout. Obama has energized the Republican base better than any candidate could have.

I wish Tim Pawlenty was in the race, he did a good job as governor. But alas he was too moderate, no way the GOP would support him.

Ruken,

You bring up an interesting point. I bet no one is more disappointed than Timmy that he bailed out after Iowa Straw Poll. I mean LOOK where the Klown Kar went from there!

Newday, don't kill me for saying this; but he, quite frankly, HAS to be more stable than the current crop of crazy being bandied about as 'qualified'.

Make my popcorn extra salty, Feisty!

Ruken,

You bring up an interesting point. I bet no one is more disappointed than Timmy that he bailed out after Iowa Straw Poll. I mean LOOK where the Klown Kar went from there!

I have to admit I am a little biased. I am a MN resident and he was our governor.

I think another one of his "problems" (although I don't see it that way) is that he wasn't radical enough for some of the pissed off hard right GOP members.

If it had come down to Timmy and Obama, I would have a hard decision to make. But alas the GOP lately has basically taken any decision away from me.

No problem, Clara; but MN would not agree that he did a good job. The Governor is trying to repair the damage done. Some of our rural schools have had to go to four day weeks, because of the lack of support from Timmy's time as Governor. He is as crazy as the rest of the "teabaggers", better at hiding it.

There are a lot of Americans asking the same question right now: are these Republicans kidding?

Corporations are people? The way to create jobs is to give rich people more money? Super PACs decide who gets elected? The Bush years were great and not the reason our economy tanked.

I'm not buying it, and I don't think the voters are either. But our skepticism is not enough -- especially in a world where the Koch Brothers have $43 billion to throw against us, and Rove and Norquist and thier ilk add even more. We need strong People-Powered campaigns to call out all these Tea Party Republicans, for trying to destroy the middle class in the country we all love.

We will be inundated over the next ten months with the ususal RNC-TEA sales pitches, mis-information ads, half-truths and lies and spin designed to convince voters that grass is not really green and the sun truly doesn't rise in the east each morning, and President Obama's record isn't what it actually is; charades and strong-arm tactics for another national power grab.

Its a fact, and we know it is coming.

I stand on the premise that if you can not be honest and truthful, you are automatically under suspicion for EVERYTHING you try to tell me... hope a lot of American citizens are the same way, and I believe they are.

The perfect ad to attack Romney should be Romney himself in his own words.

Lead off with Romney making the reference about himself being unemployed.

Then Corporations are people too. (The people laughing HAHAHAHA)

Then the $10,000.00 bet

Then I like firing people

Then I was worried about getting a pink slip myself

Then I pay around 15% taxes

Then I received a small amount in speaking fees (with the total of $374,327.62 going across the screen)

Then him saying that he is worth between 150 million and 200 or so million.

(Of course which is it, "between 150 million and 200 or so million" And this guy wants to manage our money and Nation.

IR, excellent point. It "ain't" the candidates, it's the message those candidates speak.

Their message is "defeat President Obama". They have yet to say what they support only what they are against. They have yet to offer any specific ideas on job creation or debt reduction beyond the usual tax cuts for the wealthy job creators who don't create many jobs. Their solution is the same old failed tax and regulation policies that got us into the Great Recession, the collapse of the financial system's house of cards built on sand. It is tax cuts for those who already have; deregulation so the banks can do it again; small government but a huge and expensive military while the rest of the country's needs go unmet. Then there's the "let's just bomb and invade Iran" to set the Iranians free tough talk. It isn't the candidates, it is what those candidates represent and their message is opposite of what most Americans are saying.

Any republican who thinks Jeb Bush would make a fine candidate is smoking something illegal because another Bush is the last thing a majority of the country wants right now. Daniels is Bush's budget architect, the "smoke and mirrors" guy who made a mockery out of the budget process. Christie is mostly a bully and just as far right as the rest of the crowd; he speaks the same language they do but manages to sound slightly more reasonable.

The only thing that really matters...NObama!

ABO 2012!

Hi Job1, nice list, and we know it will only grow over time, along with his nose.

Job 1, the best way to beat Obama is to repeat his many broken promises. You can also play his remarks of pitting Americans against each other. You can look at the uemployment numbers. listen to his three SOTU addresses and you'll hear the same promises, lines and phrases.

Pretty entertaining to me when the supposedly "most intelligent" brother is named "Jeb." Gotta love it.

dirt:

But it's nice to know that Obama's probable opponent in the general election sponsored a health care overhaul almost exactly like Obamacare. It's also nice to know that he is the poster boy for passive income multimillionaires (with 4 McMansions and Swiss + Cayman Island bank accounts). And I suspect there will be alot more press about many companies that Bain Capital took over and bled to death with "consulting fees" before selling off the scraps or taking the company into bankruptcy. Those takeover artists often make the most money when they just consult a marginal company to death (sort of like a horde of parasites invading a healthy but slightly weakened host). He can't make 50% in any primary - even when he and his SuperPacs spend over 20 million dollars in Florida alone. And dirt, we had more unemployed than we have right now in the summer of 2009. After the summer of 2009, the figures have improved. Of course, that means that the big crock of crap dumped on America came from your good friend, Dummy W. (who is now rated by presidential historians as one of our five worst presidents of ALL TIME!)

@Skup,

You could get a record turn out for Repugs and that still would not be enough. For one not everyone is a GOP or DEM. 20% of the electoral votes are Independence. That majority is going to President Obama.

The GOP would win if one or two or both things happened:

1) Voter suppression laws take effect before November

2) The economy tanks

or both

That is the only way the GOP wins. I we know who is trying to tank the economy don't we.

cantakenomore: your post says it all. No issues, no thought. Having trouble with a recovery and the end of two wars are we? Poor baby.

Solutions539 We know that Obama is definitely trying to destroy the economy. He has spent more than any other Pres combined in 2 years, goes on more vacations than me and I am retired. Unemployment is still way too high. I could go on and on and on but you already know. You are the independent vote. The independent vote is going for Obama like the conservative vote is going for Romney. Romney is Obama!!! What a Joke!!!!

BikeBoy: oh please do go on and on...he takes more 'vacations' than you??? (you don't remember since you're a mere 'boy' but GW was known for not working any too hard and taking a record number of vacations...Obama isn't even close...) Unemployment was higher under Bush (down to 6.5 percent in my state, 6.7 in the state next door, Virginia)...2.5 million jobs so far under Obama --more than 5 times what was created in Bush's entire 8 years...I could go on and on, but I know you've got a bike to catch.

Everybody Agrees: THE "TAX CODE" STINKS; So WHY can't they DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?? Is it that "Norquist Pledge" that is screwing everything up?? "AX THE TAX CODE"; There is where your "DEFICIT" IS?? The Rich & Corporations "Masters" won't let 'em. Tea Party; So bring the country down?? Who the H=LL cares?? Mitt AND Newt both signed the "Pledge"??

I think George Carlin said it best when he said that Republicans are all about protecting the lives of the unborn. After you're born, you're on your own.

I would like to see a lot more attention paid to those who are already here. Health insurance, affordable child care, family-friendly policies at work - this should not be the prerogative of the wealthy.

Good point, Holly, wonder what Carlin would be saying now?

He'd be using all of the seven words, that's for sure.

As Barney Frank once said, Republicans believe life begins at conception and ends at birth.

Good point, Da Noid.

I don't begrudge the Santorum family for making the decision they made; it was their "choice" but it is wrong to force everyone else to make the decision the Santorum's could afford to make based on ideology and religious beliefs. Many families faced with such a decision do not have the financial ability to pay for the intensive and expensive medical care required. They have a right to make the choice that is best for them.

Holly, well said; agree with George Carlin and you.

dslsca, and Barney Frank is exactly right.

I do 'begrudge' Rick Santorum his "choice" in this sense: what the hell is he thinking running a "protest" losing campaign and leaving his wife to care for their severely sick child because he thought he heard GOD tell him he needed to run? How many days does this child have left and he's wasting them doing what exactly? What could be more important to a father who is all about criticizing OTHERS' family values??

I didn't realize Santorum's daughter had an ongoing illness. I hope she fares well. It is always sad to see a child have to struggle with something no one has control over.

I don't understand how someone who has a child that ill can believe they should force their beliefs on someone else. Makes no sense.

seeking sanity........probably because they know better than anyone how much love their child has brought into their home. There are millions of people that want the children that others don't. Until you've felt the love of a special needs child you can't understand.

think you missed the point Jackie: Seeking sanity wasn't questioning the worthiness of having and loving a special needs child...I read it as quite the opposite...

Seeking

I don't understand how someone who has a child that ill can believe they should force their beliefs on someone else. Makes no sense

That's because he isn't forcing his beliefs on you. Although he expresses his beliefs, there is little legislative attempts to do so.

He did write the bill against partial birth abortions. In reality, it is wrong to save one fetus at 24 weeks and allow another to be partly born and kill it in the process.

He does support an amendment defining marriage as one man and one woman.

Although he personally does not like contraceptives he has voted for every program providing them.

He sees laws as something that should be the majority of people - that is the way our government was set up as so, when the majority of Americans decide things should be a certain way, then they should convince the legistlators to write the appropriate law and pass it accordingly. I think that is quite reasonable.

Actually, Santorum is doing exactly that, trying to force his beliefs on all Americans: and it's why he was turned out of office very soundly by his own constitutents. In reality, women are included under the right to privacy clause of the US constitution--That means the state's powers may not be used to prevent a woman from seeking an abortion before a fetus is viable. Whether Mr. Santorum personally would approve of an abortion or not is not the guiding principal. We don't live by religious fiat in this country and we do not put civil rights and constitutional rights up to majority rule. That's why we have a judiciary--to guard against the tyranny of the majority over the minority...(and that would include those, like Mr. Santorum, who think the state must rule people's personal lives, including preventing marriages of people he doessn't personally approve of.) Mr. Santorum is doing so poorly outside his base of extremists because those who are not extremists are not interested in electing a preacher in chief. The rest of us are interested in electing a President.

matt that is just a line Obama is going to have to run on his record the last three years.

Maine has started it's Republican caucus. The winner will be announced February 11th. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be Ron Paul. He's got the activists' energy, especially the young folks.

“What is it that Ron Paul brings to the table that gets you young folks involved?” Bill Russell asked.

“It’s the idealism,” Brakey said. “He’s the candidate who says that principles matter.”

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/29/news/midcoast/caucuses-begin-in-maine-results-kept-under-wraps/

Amy,

In Florida, the focus was the angry voter. Much of that in Maine?

Dr Paul is going to win somewhere, I only hope it forces the electorate to ignore the media and fine out what he really stands for.

(well I can dream can't I)

Morning Egilman!

How is it that you came to play so early? :)

“It’s the idealism,”

You can't govern with ideals. Ron Paul would would face more opposition than Obama is facing now.

Skup,

Unfortunately for your proposition, polling data outside the mainstream media says different.

Morning phine!

I was up all night and yesterday, so it was bed early and early rising today, probably wont happen too often.......

phinephancy,

Maine is too insignificant to get the candidate's advertising dollars. But, Ron Paul just toured the state for two days, another reason why he might win it. :)

Amy,

I hope you will keep us informed. I have the feeling that no state will be "insignificant" this year!

Egilman - There are far more Democrats in the country than Republicans. Ron Paul would raise the hackles on all of them. That's not to mention he doesn't have the support of most Republicans as well.

Amy,

MN caucus is Feb 7.

Paul will be making appaerances here. Santorum is scheduled to speak tonight at one of Bacmann's favorite eatery.

Paul will pick up some delegates and Newt is a big question mark.

Romeny will probably get the majoirty of delegates but it will not be a sweep. But all the GOP congressmen have come out and gave their support to Romney. Bachmann has not supported anyone as of yet.

Skup,

I used to see through rose colored glasses also, but, as I grew up I became aware and gained knowledge and wisdom.

If Jack Kennedy were running I would vote Democrat,

If Ronald Reagan were running I would vote Republican,

Since Dr Paul IS running I will vote for him.

Get the picture?

PS: The Silent Majority is usually moderate, not aligned with either party and usually votes Progressive Republican. Especially when they are angry.

Egilman ... nothing wrong with dreaming. I personally don't agree with a lot of his positions, but I do agree that he has been ignored by the media. Mitt & Newt and their super-pacs have bought this primary. No one else had a chance from the get-go.

Egilman did you see this???

youtube.com/watch?v=g7G_pey51A8

Michele Bachmann Endorses Ron Paul 2012

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

here's the full speech:

youtube.com/watch?v=YleZcGvr5UQ

MN caucus is Feb 7.

Heh, that'd explain why I saw my first Ron Paul ad yesterday.

Egilman - Perhaps it's time to try on some glasses that let you see reality and the reality is Ron Paul will never be the President. I don't dislike Ron Paul, he has quite few good ideas but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't going to be President.

1SG,

That is old news. Bachmann supported Paul on a number of different issues thoughtout the years.The video is paste together of a couple of her appearnces and speeches from the past.

Bachmann has not supported any candidate since she withdrew form the race last month.

Thank God! That woman is bat sh*t crazy she should endorse Santorum they're birds of a feather.

Skup- even if Dr. Paul doesn't win, Egilman and I can still say we voted our consciences and didn't have to hold our noses.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

Actually yes it is old news, I was just waiting for Minnesota to come around before discussing it, it was Mrs Bachmann that begged Dr Paul to get in the race last cycle, and from the looks and respect she was giving him during some of the debates, it was a foregone conclusion on who she was going to support..

I don't know if that helps or hurts, but it is a clear signal to the Tea Party peeps up there on who they should be supporting if they didn't already know.

Skup

Egilman - Perhaps it's time to try on some glasses that let you see reality...

Let me explain something to you, I was flacking for Ronald Reagan probably before you were born.

In the '80 primary season, Reagan was 15 points behind everyone else nationally thru the first five, people were telling him to drop out that he didn't stand a chance and was unelectable, he went on the win the presidency in the largest landslide in history up to that time, 49 states, 220,000 votes shy of all 50.

Obama in '08 was 15 points behind Hillary until the end of January when he pulled even and then in march he was 15 points ahead.

To say that Dr Paul doesn't have any chance this early in the cycle, shows just how much you do not know about the election process or how it works.

Egilman,

Yes, Bachmann styles herself as the spokesperson for the tea party caucus. Here in MN she is more noted as the spokeperson for the right wing Christian value voters. She has endorsed the marriage amendment that will be on our ballot.

Santorum is speaking tonight at one of Bachmann's favorite eateries. Santorum will get support of the Bachmann voters in her 6th district. The tea party folks who are libertarians will of course ,caucus for Paul.

Santorum is speaking tonight at one of Bachmann's favorite eateries. Santorum will get support of the Bachmann voters in her 6th district.

Oh sh*t where at?

I'm a resident in the 6th and I need to go ask Senator @ss-Juice some questions about his homophobia.

I wonder why Romney is afraid to do a set down interview, other than FOX.

I wonder why Romney is afraid to do a set down interview, other than FOX.

Because he knows he'd get slaughtered. He won't do it until he's desperate.

It's the same reason he never was going to release his tax returns until he started losing votes.

Egilman - Seeing how I voted for Reagan I doubt that seriously. Where we are in the cycle has nothing to do with why Ron Paul can not win. Our government is representative. Ron Paul represents only a small section of the population. It's just simple math. He could never get enough support behind him to win. I'm not knocking Ron Paul. I like a lot of his ideas, however, I'm not going to kid myself into believing he can win. There are just far to many people in this country that feel then NEED the government to 'look out' for them. He would draw Democrats to the polls in droves and there a lot of them.

Job1 - You mean like this one with Matt Lauer?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46188734/ns/today-today_people/t/romney-well-meet-nbc-about-brokaw-clip-ad/#.TybDT1xulwM

So Skup,

You haven't said why he won't win except for the generalization that he doesn't have any real support,

This is why he has won most of the straw polls nationwide, on the internet he's clearly 9 to 1 over all the others, in the debates they desperately shut down their debate polling or try to skew it because the Dr usually wins.

It's pretty much clear that most who read the news and research the issues know that Dr Paul won Iowa even though the Party and Media tried very hard to bury it. He came in a STRONG second in NH, we all knew he wasn't going to win in SC and FL that's why he didn't campaign much in either state.

Dr Paul's support is in the Rust Belt, Midwest and Western States, I'll gladly wait until the cycle is complete to make my judgments on how much support he has. Just remember one thing, the Party has already offered him the Keynote speaker slot at the Convention, that has to tell you that the party thinks he has a lot more support than you give him credit for.

A sit down interview. One on one and in person. Like President Obama does.

Egilman, and to say he does is to show your complete disrespect for sanity and reality. Paul's foreign policy is delusional at best. He lives in the past and wants to regress 100 years of history. I wish him well and those of you who decide to waste your vote to make a statement that you too would rather have lived 100 years ago is just fine. It's one less vote for the opposition. We cannot return to the days when government was inconsequential unless you also want to get rid of about 200 million people. You can't have a society, the basic premiss of which is that every man is an island, responsible only for himself. That would lead to certain chaos since it doesn't in any matter take into account human nature, and fortunately as Dr. Paul is finding out, people are just not quite that stupid.

Have to admit I scanned the article. But this is about the candidates right? Not one mention of Ron Paul. Love how the media picks the pres...can't wait for the dollar crash and more wars.

Yep, Amused, the ocean no longer protects us.

In the '80 primary season, Reagan was 15 points behind everyone else nationally thru the first five, people were telling him to drop out that he didn't stand a chance and was unelectable, he went on the win the presidency in the largest landslide in history up to that time, 49 states, 220,000 votes shy of all 50.

Nice revision of history Eagil. Raygun was the front runner from the beginning of the primary and had the nomination sewn up very early. He won the first three primaries, and swept the south. He was never told he didn't stand a chance. Maybe you are getting the 80 primary confused with the 76 primary. Raygun also did not win 49 states in 1980, he did that in 1984.

Amused, you said it.

Ron Paul is a purist, an ideological purist. We know from viewing failed "purist" governments that they simply do not and cannot work. The thinking is flawed from the beginning. In Ron Paul's world, recently repeated regarding gay marriage by Governor Chris Christie, civil rights laws should never have been passed, businesses should have the right to discriminate, that a majority of voters should determine the rights of a minority group. Civil rights are constitutional rights and if it takes specific federal laws to clearly establish those rights, that is what Government can and must do.

Ron Paul has some good points to make; he's wiser on foreign policy that the other GOPTPer candidates that's for sure but he's also unrealistic about many of his ideas. There has never been a strictly black and white approach to anything because there is such a huge swath of gray in between. The age of total isolation disappeared centuries ago, about the time Europeans sailed the ocean to explore the world.

I can't help wondering how the likes of those who feel the majority should determine the basic civil rights of the minority will feel when in a few decades the minority becomes the majority and could, based on the ideas expressed by the GOPTP and Libertarians, as easily determine that whites have no right to vote, can be turned away at a restaurant or theater because a minority owner says he/she doesn't have to serve the person. It is the fatal flaw in the GOPTP, they have only short-term vision.

Egilman, nothing wrong with dreaming!

Amy, Phinephancy, GBM, NDD's and all the other posts show what is one of the many positives about the discussion on FR--we get a view from the voters who live in a particular state.

Ruken,

Santorum will be holding a town meeting tonight at 7:30 pm at the Pizza Ranch in Luverne MN.

You can get dinner and get your question asked. Have fun!!!!

raddave

Wow, there is someone out there that actually reads and knows his history!

Raygun also did not win 49 states in 1980, he did that in 1984.

If you look back a couple of posts I posted this without the switcheroo. I do this sometimes to see if anyone is paying attention, thank you for restoring my faith in middle America! Some of us do pay attention.

I'm not confused not at all, so tell me what do you think of Dr Paul's chances?

Amused, you just don't get it do you. I wouldn't expect you to, you are a die-hard liberal.

Yes Libertarianism, is about individual responsibility,

Responsibility for oneself, your children, your wife, your family, your neighbor, your neighborhood, your school district, your voting district, your county, your state, and your country.

Yes YOU are responsible, NOT your government.

"Ask not what your Country can do for you, ASK what YOU can do for your Country"

That's as clear as it can be made, if you still cant grasp what liberty is all about, then you deserve what is coming, because you truly want it.

Jody,

Egilman, nothing wrong with dreaming!

Thank you, And, I wish for all of you Liberals out there that the government utopia you are trying to build works.

Unfortunately, history is repleat with governments that tried to be everything for everyone, they also fail miserably, there are many examples of those also.

Give me liberty of give me death! Is more than just a slogan, it is a creed to live by. A creed, that once was supreme in this country but is dying today.

I just hope that I will have passed away before the last vestiges of liberty truly die in this country.

Always understand one thing, when liberty and freedom is dead, and you have the totalitarian regime running this country, when the few have all the power and the many no voice at all,

I will be one of those that say "I AM RESPONSIBLE" while I'm out on the front line with many others dying to get back what was lost.

one can only be 'individually' responsible when they aren't inflicted by cancers caused by corporate malfeasance. It is naive and absurd to assume that a country of 300 million + people can allow capitalism to self regulate.

Not to mention his BAT @!$%# crazy ideas about women's bodies and civil rights. He's a FREAK and will never be President.

but good luck with that.

Clara,

his BAT @!$%# crazy ideas about women's bodies

You are aware that he's an OB/GYN and his patients, the adult ones, all support him above anyone else.

I think that stands on it's own very well against any claims from abortion supporters.

Egilman: what an absurd claim...ALL of his patients support him for President? And you know this because ? And it matters because? Ron Paul is for the constitution, unless he's against it (like for women and their right to privacy)...The wacko couldn't be elected first dog-catcher.

AP - how foolish of you to say...

The wacko couldn't be elected first dog-catcher

Seems that paul is re-elected every 2 years to the US house of reporesentatives. I may not agree with all that he wants to promote, but he has been more consistant over the years than most politicians including obama. Rather then running off at the mouth, why not engage your brain before typing.

Please do enlighten us all on how you got egilmans reference to OB/GYN support from patients to that of POTUS?

American: Look at the facts. Ron Paul is a local congressman --that does not speak to his ability to gain any votes in a national office and in fact, he's proven he has no national appeal repeatedly in his prior Presidential runs. He has never even been able to pass one single piece of legislation in his entire "career", because his own colleagues in Congress consider him an extremist. His staff admitted in the Washington Post this week that he vetted the racist newsletters he's been denying have any connection with his "official" positions. Who else would get a pass on calling Abe Lincoln a "dictator" who fought a needless war over the issue of slavery? Consistency?? I find no consistency in insisting he's for "personal responsibility" but then insisting that doesn't apply to women...Paul says the constituions' right to privacy just simply doesn't include them. Please do enlighten us on which of the the various stands of Paul's that are going to engage this country...? Legalized heroin perhaps? Legalized prostitution? Criminalized abortion? Isolationism? He's fine with pork barrel spending as llong as it benefits his own district and insists there's nothing inconsistent in that. Take your own advice. Enlighten yourself.

AP,

His staff admitted in the Washington Post this week that he vetted the racist newsletters he's been denying have any connection with his "official" positions.

Provide the linkage brother, if it's in the Washington Post it's on the internet, PROVIDE THE LINK!

I'm wondering if he can do just this one little simple thing, like prove this claim, should be really easy. I'll leave all the rest, the hard ones alone and just ask for the EASY one!

AP,

Bull@!$%# I won't let it pass,

show me anywhere, where he has said anything like these accusations...

Who else would get a pass on calling Abe Lincoln a "dictator" who fought a needless war over the issue of slavery?

I find no consistency in insisting he's for "personal responsibility" but then insisting that doesn't apply to women...Paul says the constituions' right to privacy just simply doesn't include them

Legalized heroin perhaps?

Legalized prostitution?

Criminalized abortion?

Isolationism?

He's fine with pork barrel spending as llong as it benefits his own district and insists there's nothing inconsistent in that.

You show me boy, PROVE your statements, you ARE being called out now PROVE it or stfu about what you know nothing about!

Prove you know something everyone else doesn't or admit you are clueless, A non response or a response with anything other than proof is an admission that you are clueless!

You set the rules of the game now PROOVE it big mouth?

Morning Phine!

The late movement is towards Newton again...from plus 16 to plus 5 in ONE day. That's an 11 point drop! That's been the pattern of Romney's "appeal" in the primaries so far, late movement to another candidate...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/fl/florida_republican_presidential_primary-1597.html#polls

dangerfield,

At the beginning of early voting, the place near me always had a long line. By Saturday, though, only a few cars were in the lot - however quite a few people were on the road waving "Newt '08" signs. What this means, I don't know. Things are getting a mite heated here in NE Florida!

BTW, did you catch the media boycotting Newt over the weekend because he was overcharing them for the charter flight that follows him?

But his silence in the fight between Mr. Romney and Mr. Gingrich has been noticed by Republicans here. As the two candidates made appearances on Friday before Mr. Bush’s Hispanic Leadership Network, Mr. Bush was not in the audience. He turned up later that day in Washington for a private Oval Office meeting with his father and President Obama.

Former President George Bush has endorsed Mr. Romney. Former President George W. Bush has told friends he is following the race but has no plans to become involved. All three Bushes were at the Alfalfa Club dinner in Washington on Saturday night, when Mr. Obama joked that many people hoped Jeb Bush would run for president.

“I am not one of them,” Mr. Obama declared at the private dinner, one attendee said.

The Republican presidential campaign in Florida, which has erupted into a confrontation between the party’s establishment supporting Mr. Romney and conservative grass-roots activists backing Mr. Gingrich, is also infused with a subtext about Mr. Bush. At campaign rallies last week, when asked whom they planned to support, several voters said that they wished Mr. Bush were a candidate.

They are not alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/us/politics/jeb-bush-remains-silent-on-endorsement.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper

------------------------------------------------------------

J-E-B...

The President would rather run against Romney or Newton...

Dangerfield,

That's what happens when you have a pissed off electorate, it all comes down to the last broadside and who is angrier....

No way to elect anyone...

Jeb Bush is due in 2016, this is why he is desperately trying to stay out of it this cycle.

dangerfield,

That J-E-B word was used a lot this morning around the coffee maker today (and Friday's lunch).

The candidates for President have been making him look more and more Presidential by comparison with every passing day...

Mr. phinephancy had to chuckle, one of the group said he was so disgusted with it all he just might vote Democratic this year! (The guy who said this has never voted for a democrat in his life - this is how mad this group is)

One side will score Florida as a touchdown, the other side will score it as a fieldgoal ... the press will decide how to score it. But if it is correct that Newt is charging $3000 flight tickets for the press, they will call it in a way least favorable to Newt..

Good morning, Ideology. Yes, I would imagine the press is none to happy with the former speaker right now.

Going around on conservative websites;

Obama/Romney 2012

"There isn't a dime's worth of difference between them"

(I don't agree but it's indicative of how some see our political landscape.)

And yet, dangerfield, Romney is the GOP establishment choice. How are they going to spin that feeling to the base?

dangerfield,

Did you read the article about Jeb in the Sunday NY Times by Jeff Zelney? www.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/us/politics/jeb-bush

*****ALLEN WEST FOR PRESIDENT*****

From the HuffPost--

Speaking to a Lincoln Day Dinner in West Palm Beach for the Palm Beach County GOP, Rep. Allen West (R-Fla) fired off a humdinger of a line that within minutes drew recriminations from Democrats on Twitter.

"We need to let President Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, (audience boos) and my dear friend the chairman of the Democrat National Committee, we need to let them know that Florida ain't on the table," West said. "Take your message of equality of achievement, take your message of economic dependency, take your message of enslaving the entrepreneurial will and spirit of the American people somewhere else. You can take it to Europe, you can take it to the bottom of the sea, you can take it to the North Pole, but get the hell out of the United States of America."

Following cheers, West added, "Yeah I said 'hell.'"

Phine-

Link does not work for some reason. Is it the same article I referenced above?...#6.3?

Romney Spokesman Behind Plan to Redistrict Allen West out of Office

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/01/29/romney-spokesman-behind-plan-to-redistrict-allen-west-out-of-office/

It is "A Florida Bush stays silent, and to many, that says a lot" (Sorry, I am terrlble with my links) You will find it a VERY interesting read.

It's the one I quote above, but thanks for the "heads up"...;)

Drat! Thought I had one! Should have been paying more attention! Mea culpa! :)

(I could just blame the cats - they are used to it. LOL)

Knew I should have put my glasses on this morning..............

Yeah, Damage, why not support another war criminal, since you wing nuts re-elected Bush.

Damage 123:

Too bad for your team (racists and fascists). Florida is on the table. Romney wants to overhaul medicare in a way that will hurt seniors. He will propose a higher retirement age and reduced benefits for social security recipients. His Cuban policy is a double down on the stupid policy of the past (and some younger Cubans will reject that). Romney's positions are hostile to new non-Cuban immigrants. And Damage, you can't win without Florida. You can't win without Virginia. And you can't win without Ohio. And you will lose two out of three (at least). Cause Newt is a kook and Willard is a chameleon (and everybody knows it). And look, it might not even be Romney - polls are tightening again in Florida - despite every blueblood Repub trying to rig it. Santorum and Paul are the only honest people in the GOP contest - and they are just too extreme. Of course, nobody is as kooky as Allen West. (He needs an injection of something to stop the crazy.)

raddave - I see little difference between bush and obama on foreign policy except...

Bush sought congressional approval for both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama went out of bounds on libya by ignoring congress and exceeding the UN's "no fly zone" mandate.

I don't recall bush as telling a soveriegn nations leader that he must go on numerous occassions.

Obama and company openly suggested that the russian populace protest voting in russia.

Bush signed the SOFA agreement with Iraq to have our troops withdrawn from Iraq by the end of 2011 and obama tried staying in country.

Then again, perhaps you weren't trying to imply that bush was a war criminal.

Bush sought congressional approval for both Iraq and Afghanistan. What was his statement? "If your not with me then you are against me."

american-2051576

To some people, President Obama can do no wrong. Don't expect intellectual honesty from those who are incapable of it. That includes members on both sides of the isle.

dangerfield,

My little "polling" group is extremely fed up with the GOP field. A lot of anger from them. But, Newt really disappointed them at the debate. They are mad at the establishment and generally mad at any politician at this point. They wonder why some of the "good candidates" didn't run.

BTW, hope you had a wonderful weekend.

The media has a vested interest in "moving the goal posts". National and cable networks are raking in some major bucks. And as Phine has mentioned on a number of occasions, there seems to be a new poll every couple of hours. Gee, just can't wait till the actual election starts. It'll be time to put Jimi and Janis on the CD player, pour a couple fingers of Makers Mark, and turn off the TV.

TOG,

An extra thought, great time to catch up on reading or other projects! I have read a lot of 'who-done-it' and reorganzied all my closets!

Got a stack of books next to my recliner, a bunch of new recipes I want to try out (much to Tired Old Girl's delight) and grandchildren to take to the movies.

Polls show Gingrich cutting Romney Fla. lead to single digits

By Meghashyam Mali - 01/30/12 09:25 AM ET

Two new polls show Newt Gingrich narrowing the gap with Mitt Romney in Florida, one day ahead of that state's crucial primary.

An InsiderAdvantage poll of likely GOP voters released Sunday night shows Romney in the lead with 36 percent support, ahead of Newt Gingrich with 31 percent.

Rick Santorum and Ron Paul tie for third place with 12 percent support each.

The five- and seven-point margins suggest Gingrich is gaining momentum in the Sunshine State after multiple polls released Sunday showed Romney holding a double-digit lead.

The PPP survey shows Gingrich leading Romney among many conservative voting groups. Gingrich wins evangelical voters by 37 percent to Romney's 33, leads among Tea Partiers with 40 percent to Romney's 33 percent and bests Romney among those who describe themselves as "very conservative" by 36 percent to 29.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/207331-polls-show-gingrich-cutting-romney-fla-lead-to-single-digits-

Interesting, Gary, thanks.

http://www.livescience.com/18177-americans-political-polarization-exaggerated.html

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/01/27/obama-most-polarizing-president/

dangerfield tosses commentary magazine at me in the early morning ... I know this is Canada where I am perched but sheesh guy, happy hour is still 9 hours away.

Ideology, as Jimmy Buffet would say, "It's 5 o'clock somewhere"

ISTV-

This from the guy who gave us Kierkegaard?...lol

Just trying to give both sides an equal forum...;)

I return your fire with Charles Bukowski

"beware the average man the average woman
beware their love, their love is average
seeks average

but there is genius in their hatred
there is enough genius in their hatred to kill you
to kill anybody

not wanting solitude
not understanding solitude
they will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own

not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world"

GaryP, good read. We are mostly a country of center left and center right without much space between both. We are a country of fiscally conservative people both right and left yet we are also a country that slowly shift to the left on social issues such as gay rights.

I do disagree with the author on one point--I have never seen Congress so politically divided that one party ignored the economic hardship of the masses, risked tanking the economy by refusing to help, and nearly caused the country to default mostly because their goal was and remains to defeat President Obama. There has always been a certain amount of polarization, disagreement on how best to proceed but prior to the 90's, republicans and democrats compromised for the good of all. That rigid NO NO NO the last three years by the GOPTP, in my view, shows the polarization to have reached a new level in Congress. It might not exist as strongly nationwide but it has been on full display in Congress since January 21, 2009.

Ideology, touche'!

sonmanvb---I think this motto you speak of was made up by you and people like you, a total fabrication.

Seattle Sue,

Great Horse by the way,

Vote Early and Vote often,

The “Vote Early, Vote Often” quote is from that dubious American, Al Capone, who also said, “You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.”

Yep the man who for many years held the corrupt Chicago political machine in the palm of his hand, most people do not know he was a Democrat....

You know, it's easy to make a claim, and offer no proof of that claim. Since most Mafia figures didn't have any type of identification, I seriously doubt that Al Capone was registered to vote. Also, he did not coin the term "Vote Early and Vote Often." The phrase has been around at since the mid 19th Century.

Egiman: how desperate do you have to be for an issue...ANY issue...to claim AL COPONE was on 'the other side'. Good grief...do you have any sense at all at how ridiculous that is?

raddave & AP,

Check these out...

http://www.newgeography.com/content/00955-origins-and-growth-al-capone%E2%80%99s-outfit-chicago%E2%80%99s-first-ward-democratic-organization-and

http://@!$%#yeahmobsters.tumblr.com/post/7975466472/democratic-alderman-albert-j-prignano-and-al

Actually, Al Capone would take power from whomever he could get it from, Republican or Democrat, but he helped create the political machine methods of the Chicago Ward system and how it works today.

Facts are very seldom ridiculous, as much as you would like it the other way. .

Egilman: You win the prize for the most ridiculous obfuscation of the day (congrats or something).

AP,

What obfuscation?

Please explain where I obfuscated anything.

PS: It would surprise me if you actually attempt to show it....

Egilman: For heavens sake man...AL CAPONE?????? What are you, 12?

AP,

Actually, I'm 65, No I'm not kidding, and you haven't refuted the links I posted yet, what? you hate Truth? you hate Facts?

Tired Old Guy: Santorum is coming to MN today. The ads should start here directly. And we do have Citizens United to "thank". Well, that and the Roberts court.

newday,

My advice - watch lots of recorded tv or movies. Only way you will stay sane!

Tired--I guess because I am a political junkie myself, it amazes me that after all these years the negative ads are so effective. People do seem to assume it must be true because they saw it on TV and we have learned that isn't the case. Yet each election we see and hear them---the same grainy pictures and the gloom and doom voice of the announcer and the voters still for for it. It is disheartening.

Sorry about your luck newday ... take phine's advice (or drink heavily) and stay sane.

Steeler Fan,

Political elections in this country are one big family spat, and it is expected that everyone comes together and settles all.

Then we vote. ;-)

Looking forward to our caucus on Feb 7.

I plan to be a delegate to our district convention. Hope to even make it to our state convention.

Need to support a number of DFL candidates in state races and it all begins in the precinct.

As bad as the Republican candidates are portrayed, you would think that President Obama numbers would be much higher.

Mitt Romney would beat President Obama, 48 percent to 47 percent, in top swing states, according to a USAToday/Gallup poll released last night.

I know this poll is for swing states, I am just curious why is it so close?

Personally, I prefer to pay attention to what these candidates are doing and saying.

Barack Obama is now putting the United States squarely a decade behind Britain. Listening to the President’s State of the Union message last week was like a surreal visit to our own recent past: there were, almost word for word, all those interminable Gordon Brown Budgets that preached “fairness” while listing endless new ways in which central government would intervene in every form of economic activity.

The Telegraph

mon jan 30

oh gosh...tell me it isn't true!! The conservatives at the London Telegraph aren't happy with Barack Obama?? Oh what will we do? WHAT WILL WE DO??????? (anyone have Murdoch's phone number? )

AP,

Actually, most people around the world are not happy with Barry, just and much as they wern't happy with georgie bush jr.

If I were a conservative voter in Florida, it would bother me to feel used by the party----I'm supposed to turn out and vote for the candidate they tell me to, even if that person doesn't represent my values.

Steeler Fan,

Think about it, people are so unhappy with President Obama, they are willing to vote for anyone, forget about their values, they just want Obama out. Scary stuff.

thetotas, don't forget, we're talking about republican voters here not the general electorate; the far right base is rabid anti-Obama; the republican party is desperate and in my view, they are a party that is either in decline or suffering a serious identity crisis right now.

As to why the polls are close, there have been many others showing President Obama with a much wider lead. I'm not one who pays much attention to a daily tracking poll because on any given day, voters will think differently than the next and most aren't paying much attention. One of the reasons the numbers are close is that independents voters always play to the middle, always think as if they'll vote for the other side this time, and most voters generally at least give the possibility of someone else a listen. During primary voters are more open to someone else's ideas but that does not guarantee voters will like those ideas once specifics are given and the match up begins head to head. We haven't seen specifics from the GOP candidates beyond the usual same old ideas. In addition, for months, the GOPTP candidates have been slinging mud at President Obama, it stands to reason that during the primary that's what voters hear about the most. Once a nominee is in place, and toward fall, then voters get serious.

"It is time for Republican politicians to drop the illusion that they are outsiders to Washington and to accept that they have enjoyed power for much of the period since the 1970s. This would offer voters a much more honest debate about what their choices really are.

Otherwise, candidates such as Gingrich will continue to fuel the cynicism of many voters who see politicians who rail against Washington until it is exposed that they are as comfortable making deals on Pennsylvania Avenue as anyone else."

Princeton University Press J.G.

Kinda like two guys kicking each other in the nuts until one of them falls over and says "I give up, you're the bigger tool"

Larry, you think that the primary is to select the sacrificial lamb? The last time I heard that line, Republican were talking about Clinton.

Although I probably disagree with you on most things, you may be right about this. Romney makes a good fall guy, as did McCain. The system is rigged, 8 years Dem 8 years Repub... both parties realize that they can go to Washington and rob the treasury blind and there is nothing that we the people can do about it.

keck,

Have you ever wondered who the Romney advisers are and how they keep up on what they are for or against? Must have some interesting staff meetings!

Joseph,

I don't have the answer to your question, but I have another part to add and think about. What about all the people that have given up their land lines and now only use cell phones? I don't think you can call cells to poll someone.

Joseph,

this is the whole thing about polls and why they don't reveal anything.

The first, or, one of the first questions asked by the caller is who you are politically, Most people do not know what they are politically because in real life they have too many other things to deal with that are a lot more important than politics.

So political polls are a "Temperature" taking and is only valid until they hang up the phone.

This is why most politicians ignore media public opinion polls, they have their own polling people and do their own studies. This is why the media and Mitts was surprised at the SC outcome, thieir polls didn't show the swell of anger in support of the grinch.

A person is whoever he says he is at the moment of the poll question, it never lasts.

Yeah, people always say polls don't count when they're not going the way they like.

AP,

Yeah, and what you just said is what people say when they do not have a clue....

The polls haven't shown me to be wrong yet, so keep on yappin....

Egilman: If you find polling so abhorrent, so useless, then don't read them (or at least the ones that might upset your delicate sensibilities). Talk about people without a clue...

AP,

I didn't say they were useless I stated in the way of an explanation that they are unreliable, you can twist it anyway you want, typical response from someone who is, as you say "Clueless" since you can't seem to understand anything as simple as what I posted above.

Who are you being told to vote for? Jack.