He went to Ann Arbor home of the most Liberal University in Michigan and spoke at Glick Fieldhouse., not Crisler Arena, because he knew he couldn't fill that.

Then he talked about giving away a college education to college students.

Pandering at it's best.

These colleges are all full of Liberal Prof's and he has the cajones to say he is going to keep education costs down.

What a freakin crock.

How about the recent data that shows you can get the same
college education in England for one-third the cost?

Obama: “We are putting colleges on notice . . . ."

You're being put on notice Barry. You can't keep spending trillions you don't have.

Obama 2012 - "Vote For Me and Everything is Free!!"

He went to Ann Arbor home of the most Liberal University in Michigan and spoke at Glick Fieldhouse., not Crisler Arena, because he knew he couldn't fill that.

...or maybe it had something to do with the Women's Basketball game held there last night and the Women's Gymnastics meet scheduled there for this evening. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why he wouldn't be in the Crisler Center.

Feisty---did you see the photos of the people waiting in line since early morning in horrible weather to see their President? Very impressive.

Yeah noid, that's it.

Cause the Women's Basketball and gymnastics team is such a big draw and hard to work around.

Steeler, all those kids were getting credit from their Prof's to stand in that line.

You guys really don't know Ann Arbor do you? Go watch the Big Chill.

Hey Steeler since center Evgeni Malkin, winger James Neal and defenseman Kris Letang -- are divided between the competing squads, who you going to cheer for

Feisty---did you see the photos of the people waiting in line since early morning in horrible weather to see their President?

I sure did!

Didn't look like the 'youth vote' is disenfranchised to me? ;o)

Steeler Fan -

I saw those, too - amazing the lengths people will go to just to get "credit from their Prof's", ain't it? You'd think it would've been a lot easier (not to mention warmer and drier) just to show up for class.....

ideo--this is a big ethical issue for me---what do you suggest? Any of your guys in the game? I'm kind of leaning to rooting for Neal's team since he is taking Ovechkin's place.

How about the season Malkin is having?

Ideo, something we can talk about.

Pavel Datsyuk was picked first overall. Nobody here thinks he is the best player in the NHL, he is very, very, good, but it would seem most players in the NHL would most like to have him on their team.

Dude is awesome at putting the puck on the tape.

Steeler ... only Carey Price ... to hell with ethics just sit back with a cold one and enjoy hockey without the heavy hitting and cheap shots.

Yeah noid, that's it.

Cause the Women's Basketball and gymnastics team is such a big draw and hard to work around.

Merely pointing out the fact that these events did and will occur. Do you have something against women's basketball and gymnastics?

I personally admire gymnasts for their...flexability.

Having just 4 more months of payments to a public college for one child and having help put another through private college for which we are still paying the bill I am in complete agreement with the President on rising cost of obtaining an higher education. So kudos to the President for bringing the issue to the forefront.

And Dennis -- Kudos to you for refraining from commenting on U of M, a rival of Ohio State. ; )

Obama the populist loves to tell people he's the big bully. So now colleges are to blame. The other day it was Wall Street, before that corporations (except GM and Solyndra), banks were next to get their shot from Obama, and as always all those "rich"people not paying their fair share in taxes.

Now colleges are evil.

"We're putting colleges on notice . . . ". Who is this "we" Obama is talking about? And what is he going to do about it? Cut administrator/professors pay? Stop infrastructure projects like building and improving classrooms from being done? Tax colleges endowments? You will de-fund the colleges if they hike their tuition Barry? Go ahead, the federal government shouldn't be involved with it anyway.

Here I thought Newt was pandering with his "Go to the moon" talk when he was in Florida. Obama's got Newt beat.

Yes Sir, that's our President. Gosh we are proud of him..

WAC ... what happened to your Wings the other night? At some point they were losing 6-0 to my lowly team. I go way back to the original 6. You?

Steeler Fan -

I don't follow hockey that much anymore, but the whole "choosing up sides" things just smacked of junior high gym class to me. But then I was just reading that the guy picked last - Logan Couture? - won a car and gets $20,000 donated to his favorite charity. I'm pretty sure the Flyers have at least one guy on both teams this year - so who am I supposed to root for? I really don't get it.....

I have nothing against women's athletics noid. In fact I took my young daughter's to the Oakland University girls basketball game a couple of weeks ago.

We all had a ball.

Hardly anyone there and they got a real good feel for what competetive women's sports is all about. Sat in the front row. It is a tough game.

Not quite back to the original 6 ideo. My Dad did. He moved here from Boston in the early 50's and was an NHL ref.

Good times in the 60's and 70's at our house. Red Wings use to come by all the time. Howe, Delvecchio, Lindsay...

The Wings took the gas pipe the other night. Lidstrom had the flu and the rest of the team looked sick as well.

But here in Detroit, we tend to getbored with the regular season anymore.

Bring On the Playoffs!

His people love him and they can't shy away from that fact..........four more years baby. And he's not in campaign turbo cruise yet. This guy is sure good.

Obama/Biden 2012

WCA If you take a kid to the game up here you are looking at about $250, how is it in Detroit? I remember at the old Forum you could get standing room for a buck and if the game sucked you could watch the hookers work the halls.

ideo, we can still get upper level tickets here for around $40 at Joe Louis. Had to give up my season tix. Couldn't rationalize the cost anymore.

Don't think we have hookers working the halls at the JLA. But I guess I never really looked for them. Maybe next time I'm there.

They still have SRO's as well. Trick is to buy those and then move down to the Lower Level after the 1st intermission without getting caught.

I thought he wanted to tax the rich to help pay down the debt? Oh were at U of M so now we will use it for student loans. What next ? Whatever trips his trigger. What a joke only a moron believes campaign speeches.

Can't beat affordable education. I'm sure there is very high support for that from most Americans.

By the way, affordable doesn't mean free.

Yes, the 99% get to go to school too.

And yet foreign students are flocking to American campuses to study, despite having to pay higher rates than American students. We may have poor k-12 education but our colleges are still the ones many from overseas want to attend, especially in math and science.

American

They are flocking to our Universities up here also, but that trend should stop in about a generation as Indian and Chinese Universities enter the top 100 echelon.

"We're putting colleges on notice . . . ". Who is this "we" Obama is talking about? And what is he going to do about it? Cut administrator/professors pay? Stop infrastructure projects like building and improving classrooms from being done? Tax colleges endowments? You will de-fund the colleges if they hike their tuition Barry? Go ahead, the federal government shouldn't be involved with it anyway.

It's interesting that he chose U of M to preach this message as U of M has a history of being particularly blind and indifferent to rising tuition costs. I remember once the state of Michigan offered a tax rebate to anyone attending a university that capped it's tuition increase at a certain percentage. The University of Michigan laughed at them and hiked it's tuition double that percentage. They can because their academic reputation is such that people will beg, borrow and steal to come up with the money.

Big Universities are big business. They should be taken to task for pricing so many out of the market to support run-a-way sports teams and overpaid tenured professors who can't be removed no matter what they do or in the case of many do not do.

As to your comment about the Fed being involved, I find it extremely short sighted. There is no one capable of bringing some of these huge institutions to heel but the Fed.

Is the "higher ed reform" needed to enable more youth that have been de-educated and indoctrinated by the government education monopoly that is led by leftists to be able to get into universities without really knowing anything?

Studies point to lower IQ individuals being on the right, not the left.

ideology, the price of progress to be sure.

I would put it out by another generation or two though. The advantage still lies with north american and industrialized european countries because our society understands that it is ok to fail. Not really sure that india and china can embrace this concept yet. It is hard to be an innovator if one is not allowed to fail.

For any new program that the President speaks of I ask how much is it going to cost and who is going to pay for it? In his state of the union address the President spoke of starting to pay down the national debt. To do that we first need to balance budget and the White House has been forecasting deficits for as far as the eye can see. The President promised that the 2012 federal deficit will not exceed 229.27 billion dollars. To do that the federal government must spend more than 1 trillion dollars less in 2012 than it did in 2011. All the President seems to be talking about involve new agencies, new laws, and new spending. The President needs to explain how he is going to keep his budget pommies for 2012. The President needs to explain how much it is going to cost the tax payers and how long if will take to pay back the more than 15 trillion dollars that the federal government already owes.

american,

Tenure is harder to acquire in the west these days. I would expect that foreign Universities will soon start offering such positions in greater numbers. We may soon start seeing an exodus of academic talent.

AHem........ lets all take in another annual event at U of Michigan. The annual Hash Bash where these same students smoke hash and pot all day (dent in GPA). And the annual Naked run through the streets. An amazing school where you can see the students walking barefoot down the street in the middle of the winter. I go there a few times a year, its very wizard of ozzie.

Obama has BEEN in full campaign mode for nearly a year.

Now he is outraged about high tuition? It has been rising as fast as healthcare for the last 15 years, so why not the same solution?

With healthcare, the government controls costs by cutting payments to doctors, hospitals and suppliers.

With universities, the government gives more money to the schools through bigger government student loans. Never a discussion about cutting costs.

Could it be that the Democratic party doesn't want to reduce money going to organizations run by unions?

Maybe getting rid of the department of education will free up some more funds to help people pay for college. I mean, its too hard to send a block grant to the state? Its $100 k accountant cutting census checks. $Billions in program administration could be wiped out. I guess, its easier for republicans and democrats to talk a good game than to actually propose one.

ideology, good point on tenure, but now you open up the scenario of whether one decides where they attend university to the track record of the university or the percieved value of the professor. My own decision was based more on putting as much distance between my parents and university location. We split the distance after my dad checked out the reputation of my choices with engineers at his place of work.

Regardless we are still talking about the time necessary to change the mindset of the students with regards to their point of origin.

JoAnnaSmith1

Obama the populist loves to tell people he's the big bully. So now colleges are to blame. The other day it was Wall Street, before that corporations (except GM and Solyndra), banks were next to get their shot from Obama, and as always all those "rich"people not paying their fair share in taxes.

More ridiculous chatter from the conservative non-think tank. Why is it that you people consistently accuse the President of using the "evil" label. He has not accused universities as being evil and he has not accused wealthy of being evil. He just happens to realize that if publicly funded universities continue to raise tuition that only the wealthy will be able to afford college and that will even further exaggerate the wealth disparity in this country. Should we educate our most qualified students or only our wealthiest students? Isn't an affordable higher education desirable?

Tax rates for the highest incomes are the lowest in at least 70 years. Conservatives continue to push for even lower tax rates for the wealthiest individuals and try to convince the rest of us that we do so because they are the "job creators". We now have more of the wealth of this country in the hands of the smallest percentage of individuals in a century ...... so where are the jobs? People do not hire employees because they have more money available. People hire employees because those employees bring them higher income, and until the middle class shares more of the nations wealth and has money to spend, there will be very little reason for any significant hiring. This country's economy does best when the middle class prospers.

Newt brags about his role in "4 consecutive balanced budgets" in the late 90's. Everyone should remember that occurred PRIOR to the "Bush tax cuts". Conservatives continue to claim that "we do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem". Hogwash ...... we have both a spending problem and a revenue problem, and much of the spending is necessary to avoid an even deeper economic problem.

We were sailing along with balanced budgets then decided to cut taxes and enter into a couple of "wars of choice", pass a very expensive GOP prescription drug plan, and waste billions on silly "security" programs that make life more inconvenient than secure, and then when it all fails blame the next guy that takes over the Presidency for the problems. Brilliant.

Obviously the current conservatives believe in the same kind of austerity economic program that failed in this country during the Hoover administration, leading us into the Great Depression. Some of the other developed countries have been trying to solved the current economic woes with austerity programs AND THEY ARE FAILING. The United States is recovering much more quickly and satisfactorily than Great Britain and other European countries.

You know the saying ..... "you've got to spend money to make money"? It works the same way for the kind of economic crisis that Bush handed over to Obama three years ago. Stimulus is necessary, and both conservative and liberal economists agreed that stimulating the economy was necessary to avoid a depression.

The stimulus WAS successful ..... more stimulus is necessary ...... and in case you failed to notice GM is doing rather well lately. Solyndra did fail, but other stimulus in the alternative energy field has been very successful and many jobs have been added to the economy as a result.

I don't think that there will be an exodus of academic talent from this nation in the near future. Sure, foreign schools are cheaper, but they offer students only rigid courses. In America, we teach our kids to be creative. That is the one thing we can be proud of in our nation's education system. In other nations, kids are being taught to memorize problems and facts, but not quite on how to come up with their ORIGINAL ideas and stuff. America is gonna lead in innovation for the next few decades due to our ingenuity in being creative. I think we should start laying off the tests and start putting money where it is needed; in the hands of the schools to pay for more extracurricular activities and to hire more teachers. The Department of Education isn't the problem: its the quality of our schools. We had the best teachers in our schools in the 70s: young women with few other opportunities. But now, with equal rights for all, women tend to go to other professions that pay more. I say we offer a performance-based pay for teachers, invest MORE in schools, increase funding for the Dept. of Education, REPEAL No Child Left Behind, and offer a more comprehensive reform of our system by assembling a council of educators and officials from all around the world who can advise us on how to make our system more competitive. Plus we should subsidize higher education and offer more scholarships for graduates in engineering and technology. That would fix our education system.

Go Obama!! I hope you are on to something about education.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

AMERICA 2012

Here is a way to bring down the cost of Education. CUT BACK THE CURRICULUM!! Why do we have degrees in Art Studio? What the hell is that? How about Ethnic Studies? Why offer a degree in that?? How about Art History? How about Women's Studies? Why offer degrees in these areas. By eleminating some curriculum less buildings need to be built. Less Admin people need to be hired. Less Profs need to be hired. See the potential for the savings?

2011 GDP: 1.7%

That's the final, pathetic growth number for 2011.

From the just-released GDP report:

Real GDP increased 1.7 percent in 2011 (that is, from the 2010 annual level to the 2011 annual level), compared with an increase of 3.0 percent in 2010.

The increase in real GDP in 2011 primarily reflected positive contributions from personal consumption expenditures (PCE), exports, and nonresidential fixed investment that were partly offset by negative contributions from state and local government spending, private inventory investment, and federal government spending. Imports, which are a subtraction in the calculation of GDP, increased.

Not exactly a barnburner.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/2011-gdp-2012-1#ixzz1kjPxRrqm

Slodan - Reasonable assumption. Seems that universities have expanded programs to attract more students and therefore revenue. Tying student loan programs/amounts to what a degree is expected to payout would also reduce demand for certain degrees.

“Now Congress has to do more. Congress needs to do more."

It's interesting that Obama uses that phrase often, always implying that it's the Republican House that is at fault, but the reality is that the Republican House has passed about 30 pro-jobs bills (and a Budget), but they are being held hostage by Harry Reid in the Democratic Senate, which hasn't passed a Budget in almost 3 years, 2 of which were with complete control by the Democrats.

Too bad the media doesn't report the truth about the 'do nothing Congress'.

“We are putting colleges on notice…you can't assume that you’ll just jack up tuition every single year. If you can’t stop tuition from going up, then the funding you get from taxpayers each year will go down,” warned Obama.

How about: We are putting the government on notice....you can't assume that you can just jack up spending every single year and borrow the money to pay for it. If you can't stop spending from going up, then the funding you get from the taxpayers each year will go down," warned the taxpayers.

Why can't we have tough talk like that, instead of this election year, campaign garbage? Funny how this guy gets all these good ideas when its time for reelection.

More lies the student eat up this guys bs! Untill they have to go into the workforce they will not understand that they have grossly overpaid that part timer known as a tenured professor!

In all seriousness, you don't think college athletics factor into the equation? You think those facilities actually pay for themselves? With the exception of the few popular teams, most of those programs are a drain on colleges and universities. The standards in most large universities and colleges have been lowered to such a degree to prevent people from failing out and not qualifying for loans and aid. And to what end has this been done since the purpose of a university is education? The only conclusion I can come to is to cover costs. Are some of the costs professors? Sure, but what about the costs of sports scholarships and the facilities that they use?

Being active and in good physical condition is great. And it is wonderful to have something connecting a community and having something to follow, but it shouldn't come at the expense of educating. Baseball has minor leagues separate from colleges, there is no reason that the education system needs to support things like football and basketball.

Jesse -- For profit institutions claiming to provide an education are the biggest abusers of government funds. They lure the young and naive into taking out loans with the promise of an education and do not deliver. Yet they still get paid and the only thing the student is left with is a huge bill and no job.

@Greg

Uhhh.. ya they pay for themselves and then some... ticket revenue, licensing, clothing sales, ads. Of course it pays for itself.

How about abolishing the dept of education and get government out of schooling and watch quality go up and cost go down.

How about having some federal guidelines for schools so we end up actually teaching science and not intelligent design.

@eric

its not the job of the federal government to dictate whats tought in schools.

it should be up to the state or local governments where parents have more influence over what is taught, instead of big brother deciding whats best for us.

wild thought, i know.

Jesse:

I think I like the idea of reducing the amount of govt backed loans you can get for some degrees. Do we reduce the number of loans available, or reduce the amount of each loan, or both? In the same manner, perhaps we should increase loans (and loan amounts) for some fields.

How do we determine which majors have funding go up and which ones go down? Don't we need something like the Dept of Ed to measure needs and tell us which fields fit where? Otherwise we're just guessing.

ticket revenue, licensing, clothing sales, ads

Ummm some professional teams can't even fill their stadiums and you suspect that every college stadium is filled for every sporting event. As for licensing and clothing sales, sure for the largest and most popular teams and even then it tends to benefit the sports programs more then the education ascpect. The NCAA is a semi-voluntary association of 1,281 institutions, conferences, organizations and individuals. That is HUGE. While college athletics can be a revenue generate for some select schools, by and large it is a drain.

Brendon - Eric has a valid point just as you have regarding the federal dept of education.

We live in a growing global economy and the federal government should play a part in determining a national education goal to remain competitive.

Brendon you are mainly right in getting rid of the dept of education at the federal level. It is a waste to have it the size it is. A federal employment size for education should be around 250.

Jesse -- For profit institutions claiming to provide an education are the biggest abusers of government funds. They lure the young and naive into taking out loans with the promise of an education and do not deliver. Yet they still get paid and the only thing the student is left with is a huge bill and no job.

I assure you as a long term Michigan Alumni a degree from Michigan is worth the paper it's printed on and then some.

Many of my friends are also U of M alum. As you know it is a public University. The for- profit institutions are the ones advertised on tv and in local papers promising you a career in whatever, lol. GO BLUE!

Might I add MJ that it is an excellent University!

Why not just subsidize higher education?? Each college will be offered more financial aid in return for a significant drop in tuition rates, and we will invest money in public universities to lower costs. We should also prioritize who we give scholarships to: grants for the arts and other courses will still be offered, but more scholarships and government loans should be given to graduates who plan to study science, math, engineering, and other fields that will be critical for the future. And as for students who are behind on current student loans, the government could write off the loans and offer assistance and even jobs to these people, like maybe employing them as part-time teachers or in public projects. We could fund this by reforming the tax code and reducing spending on things like defense. College should be available for EVERY American, and the ONLY way to keep costs low is for the government (local, state, and federal) to pick up the tab and subsidize education.

LOW COST EDUCATION 2012!!!

Freshiee - states already subsidize the public universities. Unfortunately politicians have created so many "social" programs with little oversite so that the amount of available cash continually grows smaller.

Your idea of providing higher incentives for select programs has merit with the caveates of those declaring discrimination or in minimizing fluctuating job demand.

Write off loans? NO!

College is already available for everyone who can meet current admissions standards then by affordability.

A key issue is what is taught in k-12 and what the parenting goals are. Many good paying occupations don't require a 4 year course of study. A two year community college, apprenticeship or vocational school is all that is required. The objective is not to tell the students that a college education is the goal, but rather the goal is to become a productive member of society.

BTW - recessions reduces the demand for certain skill sets while increasing the demand for others. so retraining partnerships between industry and government has to be allowed for as well.

The rise of education costs is because of existing pensions plans retired college workers and there spouses receive. At the University of Illinois if your retired even if you are the janitor you get a monthly pension and your health insurance paid for. If you die your spouse gets the same pesnion. Health Insurance paid for 100%..So you retire at 65 and you live till 95 in Florida. THATS WHY COLLEGE TUITION KEEPS GOING UP

If the retired folks were staying in the local community and spending money locally but no they all move to florida where there is no minimum wage and they use illegals heck in Florida they use fillipino nurses to save costs on nursing. The university will continue to raise the price for pensions JUST A FACT

10,000 PEOPLE RETIRING A DAY IN AMERICA..The priorities are changing America is very old and with age innovation is replaced with taking care of the elderly. Become a nurses aid and learn to change depends thats where the future jobs are. We just have to face the facts.

As a parent paying off tuition loans I assure you that nobody else is paying the principal and interest. If you buy a car and take out a bank loan, do you take money from anybody else to make payments? If you do, the police department would like to know. Your ignorance about those matters seems to indicate that you never got beyond high school.

@affinity1

If the student does't pay it then someone else does, that is Bobs point. Take from someone else to give to you. Sounds like you never went past high school.

Money isn't just printed you know, it all comes from somewhere... If our president has a plan to keep interest rates low for students, then who is paying the difference? someone is

Also, Obama seems to consider considers himself all powerful.

I know you'd rather not acknowledge it but he is the President of the United States. That's about as close to "all powerful" as you can get on Planet Earth.

He has the red 'launch' button on his desk.

He has the power...

Interesting choice of venue. . .

Fewer than 4000 rattling around in the 150,000 square foot Al Glick practice building. Why there? No nasty little details about building capacity to deal with afterwards.

Know how many students attend U of M?

About 40,000. Quite the turn out, eh?

NoJoe---we get it--you hate President Obama. If he had gone to a venue with 10,000, you'd have asked why it wasn't 20,000. Never mind logistics, security, costs, etc. If he had over 40,000 as he did in Ireland or 200,000 as he did in Berlin you would say the crowd estimates were inflated or the people were paid. We understand---there is nothing he can do that you think is correct or that you won't try to turn into a negative for him. You better pace yourself, though--there will be a lot of events in the next 9 months with a lot of supporters for you to deride.

Romney hasn’t drawn 4,000 people to any event in the 5 years he has been running for President.

Hi Dennis, just a side note, The number of people watching the SOTU was around 37 million, the second lowest since President Bush in 2008. I think the people knew it was going to be a campaign speech and decided to turn out and the speech was on every major TV network and cable channel. The 49ers vs Giants drew around 75 million and was shown on only one channel. Sure doesn't say much for the President.

Have a good week end.

Hi Sarge,

Actually there was a report the day before (Mon) that told how the SOTU TV audience has been in steady decline for the past 10 years. They blamed it on the increase availability of snips of the speech and numerous reports on the internet and now on cell phones.

Steeler Fan...we get it. You along with most of the lemmings on this forum love Obama. There is nothing he can do that you think is incorrect or that you won't try to turn into a positive for him... you think that everything he says or does is poetic and enlightened. You will wait in line for hours just to watch him scratch himself and crawl over each other for the privilege of wiping his arse!

Anyone But Obama in 2012....

They're poster children, David!

David it is a post on a blog. We don't all spend the night before, as you do, practicing and re-writing our posts.

Get the hell over yourself dude.

David, glad you pointed it out.. unfortunately they don't know how stupid they appear, must be the fear and hate they feel, those strong feelings tend to blind them into a stupor.

Gingerbread,

You just called some people here stupid, is that out of fear or the hate you have for them?

No Thetotas no hate no fear, just sick of stupid people.. I'll be nice if they get smart...you too.

Oh please get off your self righteous high horses. There is just as much bad grammar and poor spelling on both sides. Most of it is probably from typing too fast or posting too fast. I am in a position to interview and hire college grads. I can tell you from first hand experience that I have seen just as many grammatical errors, poor spelling and typos from MBA's. If you recall there was even a typo in headline of one of the FR articles.

White Collar Auto

DUUDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

People judge you by the way you present yourself. Right know I believe I'm speaking with a stoner.

You need to get over it.

Bela Please Look Up The Word Socialism... Socialism Is Not Free....

Welcome Aboard!

I see you landed safely!

Hey Tree House Gang - can you give a warm First Read welcome to my good friend & fellow Democratic warrior!

Let the drooling begin...............

Welcome, santa fe jen! Any friend of Feisty's is a friend of mine!

We hope you will join us tonight at the Dew Drop Inn, where we celebrate TGIF and where today we are also celebrating a new arrival for one of our First Read hosts. We will raise a glass to you, too.

Welcome aboard, santa fe jen.

Hi santa fe jen, I second what Steeler just said. A very warm welcome.

SF great idea, a warm and toasty welcome to both of them. See you over there a little later. Just finished making some fresh salsa from a new crop of tomatillos and peppers in the garden along with some fresh tortilla chips from Whole Foods, just the thing to go with some margaritas.

Hi santa fe jen, I second what Steeler just said. A very warm welcome.

SF great idea, a warm and toasty welcome to both of them. See you over there a little later. Just finished making some fresh salsa from a new crop of tomatillos and peppers in the garden along with some fresh tortilla chips from Whole Foods, just the thing to go with some margaritas.

I'm bringing the champagne to toast Mark Murray's new little bundle of joy!

Grand idea, GBM. I'll bring some white chocolate cheesecake with raspberries on it for dessert!

Hi, santa fe jen - I'd offer another big welcome to a fellow Democrat, but I'm actually just here for the food and drink. And I must say, my friends have impeccable taste - not just in food and drink, but in Presidents, too!

Welcome Santa Fe Jen:

I'm not a Democrat, but if you're OK by Feisty - a paid troll and popcorn popper extraordinaire - you can't be all bad.

Look up the definition of socialism, and tell me that the public education system we already have doesn't qualify.

Oh wait, that conveniently slipped your mind until you watched Fux News.

Sorry ursula, dumping money into the department of education is more of the same that every president for the last 30 years has done. tell me now, exactly what has changed?

more money = quality of education goes down = prices of education going up

instead of proposing real reform he doubles down on other peoples ideas.

"thats hope and change you can vote for, and you can take that to the bank!"

Brendan - I hear you. The federal dept of education shouldn't require more than 250 employees and school systems should be required to show proven student skill set improvements before receiving funds beyond a given base amount.

The explanation is that they are more educated and thoughtful than you, Ditto Head

he declares the rich should be soaked even more

They should be, they pay less % in taxes than the middle class.

Watch where you are aiming your slurs. I pay more in taxes than the middle class and you're slamming my alma mater.

Education might destroy your misconceptions, but it is good for America. It helps when people understand concepts and issues rationally, rather than mindless propaganda parroting.

More educated people = More higher tech jobs = More middle class

How could taking other peoples money by force and redistribute it to the less fortunate ever be considered rational?

How could taking other peoples money by force and redistribute it to the less fortunate ever be considered rational?

How is asking them to pay a higher % than the middle class not rational?

@ruken

didn't answer my question. they do pay a higher % than the middle class.

CAPITAL GAINS IS NOT THE SAME TAX AS INCOME TAX.

now that we got that out of the way and cleared up, do you want to try to answer my question again?

Agreed Affinity! I am still trying to get my hands on the Obama socialist/marxist agenda. Now I have a new one to pursue, the Obama plan to destroy America.

Hey Money, please tell us more about that destroy America plan. Details, links, references are always appreciated.

Capital gains are a means to income, so they should be regarded the same under taxes.

Okay then you would have seniors and other old people having thier fixed income checks taxed at 35%

tell me how that works out.

or the fact that one of the reason people invest in business here or startups is that the cap gains tax is low. do you want to stifle investment?

i think income and cap gains taxes both should be elminited, but then who would pay for all the liberal programs?

There's pretax and post-tax 401k. You'd know that if you had one.

And I'm not the one that knows anything?

or the fact that one of the reason people invest in business here or startups is that the cap gains tax is low

Where do you get this supposed fact - talk about extreme examples of propaganda? The reason people invest in business start-ups is two fold, one is to lose money so they can write-off the loss of the company, the other is to turn an investment into a true gain, like investing $10k with the hopes of earning a million. Low taxes are not the primary reason.

Further proof education is desperately needed to turn the populace away from these false talking points.

Can't wait for the day that a true socialist/marxist runs for office and wins so you people start learning what those two actually are.

Not that i want that for the US; but if it will educate you, it might just be worth it.

Jeffrey,

That's a no brainer. I'm pretty sure that Obama's kids will go to a private school. I'm sure money won't be an issue with him.

I'm pretty sure the Government can't control private colleges tuition. As for State schools, I can only comment on Florida's schools. There's a program called Bright Futures, which pays for students with academic honors. There's also these 527 accounts which I didn't participate in because I moved every 3-4 years due to being in the military.

My question would be, why don't parents start saving 18 years out for their kids education? 20 bucks here, 20 bucks there, it adds up after 18 years. Does that tackle what colleges are doing now? No, but it does help to save 18 years out.

Paul---I think what the President is saying is that both public and private schools receive federal funding for different programs and that the funding will be allocated to those schools which are doing the most to control tuition costs--like an incentive.

Steeler,

Here's something I just found. It's a good article.

www.distance-education.org/articles/why-does-college-tuition-only-go-up--452.html

Not sure if this went through

Very true Pat. Studies have shown that the average FOX viewer are not the brightest bulbs in the package.

job1

You crack me up. If you can't see thru your own bs then your lost. You need spoonfed dopey retoric from MSNBC. Get a clue.

I love facts, hey Job1, post the studies please. If your statement is true since you love facts can you post MSNBC and CNN facts too?

http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Here's one detailing how "low-intelligence adults tend to gravitate toward socially conservative ideologies".

GOP/TP anyone?

A liberal website comes up with this take on conservatism, imagine that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveScience

There are people of low intelligence on both sides.

Okay, so here's more.

http://mybaltimorespirit.com/tag/low-iq-and-republicans-linked-in-study/

http://createperfection.hubpages.com/hub/University-Study-Shows-People-With-Lower-IQs-Are-Conservatives

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/288450/20120127/low-iq-conservative-liberal-racism-homophobia-study.htm

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/27/1058983/-Study-Connects-Low-IQ-with-Conservatives

Want more?

Of course any web site that deals with science is liberal. Didn't you hear? Science is the work of the devil.

Daily Kos..... LOL, Most link back to the same Live Science site. Not independent sources.

You mad?

Now you know where the term Teatard comes from.

Reminds me of the credit card usage study that said the top ten states for porn purchases were Republican states.

Ruken,

I read the article, it was interesting and kind of amusing. So calling people names makes that person smarter? Why do people call people names?

steeler - heck of a way to connect dots... LOL! Spin is such a wonderful thing. BTW - I am posting this in a positive way not a sarcastic one.

ah porn.............I believe Utah is the highest though. I know Democrats that like porn too. I don't understand how things like porn or racism is related to a political party? It's individual, not political.

I'm not a Liberal, but I believe in legalizing pot. I also believe in smaller government, but a strong military, which is not Liberal. I don't believe in handouts, but I believe in helping out if that person is trying. There's a differences.

racism is related to a political party

Let's ask Gingrich about his comment about how "Blacks should want paychecks, not food stamps", or Rick Perry's rock with a racial slur on it, or Michele Bachmann about how her husband works to "cure" gays.

Really Ruken? WOW! Because I'm sure NO ONE on the Democratic side never ever use a racial term. Boy Joe Biden comes to mind. Who said this?

"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

or

"Just walk into a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts you need to have an Indian accent."

Racism is not related to a political party.

Really Ruken? WOW!

We barely touched on discrimination against homosexuals / transgenders, would you like to start with the GOP argument on that one?

Hey Ruken, I'm not defending either party. People say stupid things, both Republican/Democrats. You're stating one party is smarter than another one. It's a pointless argument.

It's a pointless argument.

Not really.

One party advocates discrimination, one party spreads misinformation with false definitions of socialism. One party claims to be running on "traditional family values" yet simultaneously is the essence of its greatest hypocrisy. One party claims that jobless are merely lazy, even in a recession which was created under the leadership of this very same party.

Guess which one.

"One party advocates discrimination"

So you can't proof that racism is related to a political party, you start with the above comment? Are you trying to justify your hate towards a certain political party? You hate the GOP and that's fine, I don't care.

But since you brought up the recession, I was told and so were you that the recession was over in 2009. So what do you call what we are in 2012? I'm waiting for the "Summer of Recovery, Part III" to kick in since the last two failed.

It was fun Ruken, since I'm in Colorado until tomorrow, I need to see the Mother-in-law since my wife told her I was here. Believe me, I would rather continue this..............Have a great night........

I was told and so were you that the recession was over in 2009

Define over.

Currently GDP growth has been positive again for over a year, unemployment rates have been shrinking for over a year. Exports have risen considerably for about a year and a half. The DJIA is almost to where it was in 2008.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual

It's going to take more time to repair the damage from Dubya, but we're well on the way.

"It's going to take more time to repair the damage from Dubya, but we're well on the way."

I guess the Dem-controlled Senate and House during the last 2 yrs of Bush's presidency had nothing to do with it? Up until Dems took over both chambers of Congress, unemployment was around 5%! It didn't start going up until Dems took over in Congress!!!!!!!!!!!

And what laws has he broken? Proof, please...not simple MSNBC allegations!

http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Here's one I found backing that up.

@ Ruken Your source is very credible, a liberal organization.......

LiveScience is a liberal-science news website run by TechMediaNetwork, who purchased it fromImaginova in 2009. Stories and editorial commentary are commonly syndicated to major news outlets, such as Yahoo!, MSNBC, AOL, and Fox News.

You just sound mad. That's okay, you can always go back to school.

@ Ruken, I am not a Tea Partier and I like science. I just like to get my information from more than one source and also know you must take into account the bias of the writer or organization. Perhaps you should go back to school. Juvenile calling of names doesn't make you sound smarter or more educated, just makes you sound petty and intolerant.

Find where I called you names.

Making up bullsh*t doesn't make you seem smarter. Only delusional.

Ruken,

That study delved deeper into the issue than the anecdotal statistical study I was referring to. Thank you for the connection. Apparently it is less an issue of education, but comprehension. The overall conclusion had to do with lower IQ rather than lower education being one root of the likelihood of conservatism and reactionary response. It also pointed out that some tend to be naive and uncritical, that is, weak in discernment.

Uh Teatards ring a bell? Selective memory?

It's an ability to see greater consequences and a greater whole, or lack of said ability. This is basically the core of what an IQ is.

Uh Teatards ring a bell?

Did I call you a teatard? You might want to read that again.

(Hint: I was merely stating origins of said term.)

Name calling or repeating derogatory names is still juvenile and love your deflection.

My statement still stands, name calling is still juvenile and love your deflection.

Your statement doesn't stand at all.

I never once called you anything. The fact you think I did, then can't find any evidence, and then say I'm the one deflecting...shows how out of touch you are.

You selectively chose one part of my statement. I also stated:

"repeating derogatory names is still juvenile"

I heard playing the victim is mature.

Ruken,

ksw never stated that you called him a name. He/she stated that you called a group of people a name. What's the difference right?

So according to Affinity #15.6, you're a Conservative. Now what do you think of that study?

Now what do you think of that study?

Judging by this and your other comments, I'm thinking it's dead-on.

Actualy, I think educated libs think more emotionally than educated conservatives who look down the road further and understand consequences more easily. For those of k-12 education it will be more on how they view their world and who inspires them. Education only opens more doors, but doesn't imply success.

educated conservatives who look down the road further and understand consequences more easily

I hope to God almost all the conservatives in office or running right now wouldn't classify under your opinion of 'educated'.

LOL, WOW, right on Ruken................keep on judging.

LOL, WOW, right on Ruken................keep on judging.

Keep on proving my point. You're doing a fantastic job.

Ruken...some facts: Newt Gingrich - History professor; Mitt Romney - law degree and MBA from Harvard; Charles Krauthammer - MD, Harvard; Milton Friedman - Nobel prize winning economist (he actually did something to earn his Nobel prize!); the majority of military officers (well-educated, minimum Bachelors, many with Masters and PhDs) are conservatives....you really wonder why college students tend to be liberal? It's because most of them #1) have no clue what the real world is like; and #2) liberals keep promising them more and more hand-outs, oops, I mean, cheaper college bills. As Winston Churchill stated (paraphrased): If you're in your 20s and aren't liberal, you don't have a heart; if you're in your 40s and aren't conservative, you don't have a brain!!!!!!

Let's wait until people start getting their checks from the heath-care insurance providers then check back on how many favor the program.

In August 2009 Republicans and the insurance industry released a fusillade of distortions, misinformation, and fear mongering. Those that engaged in rebuttal were few and had very little media attention. A large portion of the American public is very ill informed about the Affordable Health Care Act, what it consists of, and what it does. That has a major impact on opinion polls, as does ongoing propaganda.

The media have been of little help in educating the public, but focus on the controversy instead. The program information and communication failure by advocates is unacceptable and deremental. The administration fumbled the ball.

How about the detailed breakdown that more accurately reflect the actual views of the citizens?

1-those that want it repealed in its entirety

2-those that want parts of it repealed and other parts to remain

3-those that want it improved or changed to a single payer

4-those that like it as is

I’ve seen this breakdown but don’t have a source to link right now but it shows a low percentage for both #1 and #4 while #2 and #3 account for nearly 70%

affinity - Rahm emmanual told obama how to get an effective health care plan across, obama ignored his advice and went all in. McLaughlin group 2010 year end wrap up.

It's because with people defaulting on their mortgages, banks need to take less risks.

Giving student loans are high risk, hence why they have higher rates. People can't get jobs as-is, so when a student graduates now and can't get a job, how can they pay the loan? It's risky for the bank.

I'm not saying this is right, just why they're doing it.

So that means you'll be one of those receiving my salary?

you go to the states that are in play. not that need help. Its called governing in the teleprompter economy.

I think that the President should visit every state, every town, every village, and every educational institution and repeat his state of the union address so that everyone, even those who do not have access to newspapers, radio, television. or the Internet, and hear and relish every word in his state of the union address. I want our President to explain how we are going to achieve a balanced budget in short order as he implied in his speech.

You must mean those who live in Obamavilles (the new Hoovervilles) or maybe the various Occupiers, even they should be able to hear the "Messiah" on their Iphones or at the public library at the very least.

"Evil (ignorance) is like a shadow--it has no real substance of its own, it is simply a lack of light. You cannot cause a shadow to disappear by trying to fight it, stamp on it, by railing against it, or any other form of emotional or physical resistance. In order to cause a shadow to disappear, you must shine light on it." Shakti Gawain

Government gets involved, costs go up. Look at healthcare, now look at Education. Look back before Government put its hands into either, the problem wasn't nearly as severe.

Oneman--You may be too young to remember, but before Medicare, that government program, the elderly often had to decide whether to eat or see the doctor because they couldn't afford both. The greatest fear of my grandparents was getting sick because that would eat up all of their retirement savings. Some of the elderly got by on cat food because all their money went to pay for medical care. Regarding education, the public colleges of this nation have provided a way into the middle class for millions of the sons and daughters of the working class. Compare the cost of a private college and a public college. Frankly, the facts do not support your simplistic view.