E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Democrats pivoted quickly on Wednesday to make Mitt Romney the poster boy for the "Buffett Rule," the concept announced by President Obama during his State of the Union address that no millionaire should pay less than 30 percent in taxes on their income.
Democrats hope that Romney becomes a prime example of the excesses of the current tax structure. The linkage is meant not just to boost efforts to reform the tax code, but to also tarnish the former Massachusetts governor as a general election candidate by highlighting his wealth, and the restructuring work he did in the private sector to earn it.
One of Obama's chief re-election strategists admitted Wednesday that the release of Romney's tax returns on Tuesday, which showed that he paid about 14 percent in taxes on about $42 million of income in 2010 and 2011.
"Mitt may have thought story would be buried" by the State of the Union, Obama adviser David Axelrod wrote on Twitter, but "his tax release helped make case for Buffett rule."
The Buffett Rule, named for the billionaire investor who's pushed for higher taxes on the wealthy from their investment-related income, was a central part of Obama's speech on Tuesday. The address hit hard on the idea of fairness, and the idea that the tax code currently benefits the wealthy over middle class households.
"You can call this class warfare all you want," Obama said. "But asking a billionaire to pay at least as much as his secretary in taxes? Most Americans would call that common sense."
The administration seems especially confident in its position because the argument, when presented to voters, polls well.
A CBS News poll in December found that 60 percent of U.S. adults favor increasing taxes on households earning more than $1 million to help bridge the budget deficit. Mindful of that, Democrats sought to use a surtax on millionaires to finance a variety of components of the president's jobs bill when they came up for a vote last fall; all failed due to Republican objections.
On the more specific issue of dividend income, a New York Times/CBS News poll released this week found that a majority of Americans favor taxing it the same as income from employment.
In Romney, Democrats have a perfect poster boy for what they argue are the inequities in the current tax code. The former Massachusetts governor paid such a low tax rate because most of his income in recent years came from investment, which are taxed at a lower rate.
"Look at what we have with the disclosure of Mitt Romney and his tax returns -- an annual income of $21 million and a tax rate of less than 15 percent, about 14 percent," Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, the second-ranking Senate Democrat, said Wednesday on Bloomberg Television. "And you ask yourself, now, is that fair? Is it fair that ... making that much money in a year is paying a lower rate tax rate than someone struggling paycheck to paycheck?"
And for much as the reignited tax debate has shone the spotlight on Romney and his wealth, it's allowed his Republican foes to pounce, as well.
"I think you have to live in a world of Swiss bank accounts and Cayman Island accounts and automatic $20 million-a-year income with no work to have some fantasy this far from reality," former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said at an Univision forum on Wednesday in Miami, connecting Romney's wealth to his position on illegal immigration.
Romney has emphasized that he pays all of the taxes required of him by law, and has pointed to the millions in additional income he and his wife donate to charity. But he characterized his tax burden as "fair" at Monday night's NBC News/National Journal/Tampa Bay Times debate, inserting himself into the narrative the Obama campaign is trying to build about inequality.
"I don’t think you want someone as the candidate for president who pays more taxes than he owes. So I’ll point out that that’s the case," he said. "And will there will discussion? Sure. Will it be an article? Yeah. But is it entirely legal and fair? Absolutely."
And that's why Democrats have no hesitance about linking Romney to the Buffett Rule, so much so that it might just be renamed after the former GOP governor.
"We agree with the president that it makes no sense that a millionaire should pay lower taxes than a secretary. So, it's a priority for us to act on some sort of Romney--" Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) said at a press conference Wednesday on Capitol Hill before catching himself, "--I mean, Buffett Rule this year."
Leave a Comment:
We Democrats don't have to lift a finger, (well maybe the middle one), Willard is doing a superior job all by himself!
I'm sure Willard earning 57K per day resonates real well with John & Jane Q. Public struggling to put food on their table...
Wait until John & Jane get a load of Willard's tax plan for them...
Not a prayer this ever gets through.
Capital gains tax more likely to be lowered than raised.
Good 'effort' though.
Betty,
that is not what you first typed what is going on? Are you a programmer at msnbc?
John stewart is pissed at Romney's $57k per day too. Seems he only makes a paltry $41k per day.
Yet you libbies do loves you some TEEVEE stars, right?
And oh no Feisty - you most certainly do need to lift a finger. You state just raised taxes by 2/3, yet 'unexpectedly' finds itself still broke.
You need to send in more money.
Now go out and write Quinn a nice fat check. It's for the 'children' don't you know.
It's interesting that the Democrats are all of a sudden so worried about the Cap Gains tax. There wasn't a worry in the world from them when one of their very own, John Kerry, was running for President. Not a peep about how much money he made from Cap Gains, or anything else for that matter. Just wasn't a problem back then.
And Romney has no dog in this fight. He didn't make the rules, he just followed them, to the tune of $6 million dollars paid in taxes. But to a Liberal Loon, that's just not enough. I guess we could talk charity a little too, where Romney gave away about the same, but that would piling on.
Of course raising the Cap Gains tax rate sure sounds good to the populist Libs. Taxing the "other guy" is always much more fun than getting taxes themselves. Of course as the Cap Gains tax goes up, economic activity goes down, and there is even more incentive for businesses to off shore their work. But the small minded "Progressives" can't think that far ahead.
You can always depend on Illinois for a good laugh. They raised taxes both on business and personal taxes, and they are still $16 BILLION short on paying their bills! Of course they had to reduce those taxes for corporations like Sears and the Board of Trade and previously Boeing to keep those businesses from moving out of state. So the message is you get a tax break if you're a big corporation, but if you're a guy that sells windows, you get to pay the full rate.
Is Illinois dumb enough to raise taxes again? You bet they are. And no offense Spanks, but so is California.
Ah shoot JAS1 we all know who made the rules.
Which is why it is odd to hear all the complaining from the dems.
Hey, what's Rangle up to these days?
900 million estimate in the hole....... ouch, better start hosting some dinners with speakers
Treat all source of income you receive in a tax year the same. Tax it fairly and no loopholes. None of this earned income, vs capitol gain income.
False analogy.
Far as I know, big fella, Jon Stewart is not arguing that corporations are people, or calling for any measures to put more tax burden on the middle and lower classes; nor did Jon Stewart rape and pillage viable companies for fun and profit, putting thousands of people out of work and ruining entire towns.
Try again.
Last I heard, Charlie Rangel was a member of the House of Representatives. The House is controlled by Republicans.
Res ipsa loquitur.
That's Latin, just to clarify for you, Spanky.
Flat tax is the only fair way.
Too bad that guts all the power from the politicians.
Northstar - go read the legislative comments for the capital gains sections.
Seriously - capital gains are never going anywhere.
Just ask the dems. They really seem to like them. A lot.
Where the hell are the rest of his returns? There are rumors surfacing that he may have paid no taxes in 2009.
This is a man who walks around saying things about President Obama in an effort to make him appear unAmerican, socialist, communist. Yet Romney is the one hiding his money from us in freakin' Swiss accounts and the Islands. And this is considered American? Well, by the wealthy elite, it's standard operating procedure. Again. Where are the rest of his returns?
*****************
This is what wealth used to mean. It meant giving back.
John Davison Rockefeller Jr. inherited a vast fortune that his father had built through the Standard Oil Trust. He spent some time in the family business, but his primary efforts were philanthropic.
After 1910, John Junior's primary concern was philanthropy. Along with his father, he established several notable philanthropies, including the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the General Education Board.
He also is remembered for spearheading construction of the Rockefeller Center in New York City; funding the restoration of the historic district of Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia; and donating the land where the United Nations building now stands in Manhattan, New York.
Even Rockefeller's position in New York City real estate started out as an attempt at philanthropy. His original intent in 1928, was to build a new opera house, but when the Great Depression caused the Metropolitan Opera to back out of its lease, he proceeded to build on the site. The result was the Rockefeller Center, a suite of office buildings yielding six million square feet of leasable space at a cost of $100 million, making him the largest holder of real estate in New York City.
Rockefeller was also interested in conservation, making large contributions to many national parks including Grand Teton, Acadia, Great Smoky Mountains, and the Virgin Islands.
During both world wars, Rockefeller dedicated himself to raising money for the effort. During World War I, Rockefeller toured military encampments, spoke before troops on active duty and give counsel to individuals who sought it. He helped to establish the United Service Organizations (U.S.O.) in 1941, prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Rockefeller was actively involved in that organization.
Two years later, he assisted in the formation, along with the U.S.O., of the National War Fund, raising $321 million for U.S. servicemen, merchant marines, and others involved in the war. He also assisted in raising $35 million, as chairman of the United War Work Campaign in New York, for private organizations that assisted the troops during World War II.
John D. Rockefeller Jr. died on May 11, 1960. Rockefeller's many contributions to national parks were recognized in 1972 when Congress dedicated 24,000 acres for a parkway between Yosemite and Grand Teton to be named after him.
During a radio program in 1941, Rockefeller stated his philosophy of living while making a plea for the U.S.O. and the National War Fund. Rockefeller said,
"I believe in the supreme worth of the individual and in his right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty. I believe that the law was made for man and not man for the law; that government is the servant of the people and not their master. I believe in the dignity of labor, whether with head or hand; that the world owes no man a living but that it owes every man an opportunity to make a living. I believe that thrift is essential to well ordered living and that economy is a prime requisite of a sound financial structure, whether in government, business or personal affairs. I believe that truth and justice are fundamental to an enduring social order. I believe in the sacredness of a promise, that a man's word should be as good as his bond; that character — not wealth or power or position — is of supreme worth."
*****************
Today's wealthy just hide until a presidential election comes around.
Oh Anna Molly - you are so fickle. So today you are talking to me, eh?
Let's see if we can fix that. :)
False what? perhaps you ought to re read Feisty's comments:
I'm sure Willard earning 57K per day resonates real well with John & Jane Q. Public struggling to put food on their table...
So you think Feisty and John and Joan Q distinguish between Romney's passive income and Stewart [hard] earned income?
Come on AM - that's just silly. In the class warfare game money is money, regardless of source.
Of course they also hate the layers who make $250 - $300 per hour, but I suspect you know that.
But hey you know some fancy Latin, so you can explain to them that yo are totally worth the approximate $500k you earn/bill out per year.
See. :)
They will make a exception to the rule on capital gains and only change the rate for those the use it as carried interest.
Below is a link to an article on Romney and taxes and a quote from the article:
Last seen taking a class at a local community college. Class title: "Turbo Tax for Dummies"
Charlie took it pass/fail.
Oh my...
Will you look at all the concern regarding my great state by those that don't even live here.
Because, if they did, they would know Pat Quinn ran & WON on RAISING taxes...
Please continue your blathering...
Excellent post, Pat.
That quote sums it all up very nicely.
@Anna - not to mention that John Stewart has an actual job. The only work done by Mitt is a few speaking engagements.
Why should I read Feisty's comments? Do you have some idea that I get my ideas from Feisty or that we have some lock-step agreement in place?
Try again.
Sure. They same way they do for sports athletes that they like.
Those people work for a living, and they do not use their time trying to tear others down and create divisions.
Still a false analogy.
Try again.
Emphasis on "game." It's all a game to you and your wealthy conservative friends, isn't it?
Phony baloney.
No, no, no ... they hate the sharks, and there are plenty of them -- including YOU, I presume -- who make $1,000 an hour. Oh, and of course, the trial lawyers, definitely like you, Spanky.
You know? The ones they've been taught to hate by the very people you seem to admire.
Not me. Google Translate. You?
Pat says, "Where the hell are the rest of his returns? There are rumors surfacing that he may have paid no taxes in 2009."
Actually Pat, chances are good he received a large chunk of change as a refund. Why? A little known provision of the stimulus bill changed, for a short period of time, the carryback rules. Basically those that had large losses were allowed to take those losses back five years and offset current losses against prior year gains. It is kind of a pain in the arse to do, you have to amend prior year tax returns, but boy is it worth it.
And this proves what?
I took tax pass/fail in law school because it was during interview season. I missed about a quarter of the class sessions, and never did listen to the tapes. I got an A, and my numerical score was actually higher than my cumulative average at the time.
For a girl who everyone here assumes doesn't know up from down, I think that's pretty good.
Don't you?
What's my point? -- don't make unfounded assumptions about people.
You do it all the time.
Yeah, let's go with the 'they work for a living argument AM.
John Stewart $41k per day, but that's perfectly fine, cause he 'works' for a living.
Huh, seems like that guts the whole 1%-ers are evil greedy bastards argument, right AM?
And hey you pulling in $500K is great. I'll leave it to yo to 'splain that it's you firm, not you. But FYI that really doesn't seem to be playing for Newt.
$1000 per hour, me? I wish. But then billing for hours bites. I do that as little as possible these days. I like flat fees, much easier.
Well good for you, and who really cares.
LMAO! Weathervane is his own worst enemy!
LoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoL
Nice work if you can get it. But that suggests transactional. And here I thought you were a trial lawyer. Until we got to Rule 11, that is.
Flat fees don't translate well in my world, a lot of which is based on what happens on any given day, or in any given week. Can't flat-fee for that.
And isn't that just like you.
I thought Feisty was talking about Mitt's finger. ;-)
Even Marsha Blackburn (when cornered) admitted that Teapublicans support taxing capital gains -- And it's hard to get anything but exaggerated talking points out of her. The GOP/TP know they can't argue for lowering tax rates on earned income without applying it to ALL income (let alone a flat tax instead of a progressive tax - ha). The president has them on the run.
Romney's tax plan to give the 1% even more tax breaks -- that's what won't fly, especially now that people know he paid an effective tax rate of only 13.9%. Awesome, LOL.
Trial lawyer, is one of the many aspects. And trialsare expensive and most people/small companies are trying to conserve money, as I'm sure you know.
Plus come on AM, how many trial can you do in a year? I do everything I can to keep it to two or three max.
Besides, the young guns are always chomping at the bit to get in there.
Aw, to be young again.
Or make John Stewart cash - Occupy Stewart's tax return!
Real trial lawyers often do a dozen or more. I used to work in that world.
Small claims lawyers, a couple hundred.
Now that might work for a flat fee.
Why not? He'd get the point. Romney not so much.
State of mind, state of grace, Spanky.
Just remember that every day you get older beats the alternative.
And where the hell is Gingrich's original contract with Fannie/Freddie in 1999? Probably in the same landfill with Romney's hard drives (and the missing Watergate tapes).
I've heard a rumor that Mitt may have it in his back pocket.
Which naturally begs the question of how it might have gotten there.
Which may be why we haven't seen it.
You Tell em Patriot...and where the hell is Obama's College records and Financial Aid information.
Might I add Romney made himself the poster boy for what's wrong with our tax policy!
Grover must be having a fit at all the scrutiny. I find it all quite hilarious. ; )
More than three would probably kill me these days AM.
Besides they are so labor intensive it'd cut in to my fun.
As for the flat fee/hourly billing - the times they are a' changing. Evolve or die, particularly in tight legal markets.
and arn't they all at this point.
And back to the original point - Romney makes $57k, Stewrt $41k - per day. That's super rich, and seems to the be the very think OWS hates.
Even the Wall Street fat cats 'earn'/work for their money.
So AM - how much is enough? And is that really a question Stewart or Mike Moore want to be asked?
JFK-2112-- Really? Seriously? Because when someone gets financial aid that is suspicious--I better warn my Teapublican sister who's kids all went to college on Pell Grants. And after graduating with a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard the president's college records are needed to prove...what exactly?
Smells like we have a new troll in town. Ya just finish spraying and have to get the air freshener out again 'cuz another foul odor is seeping out from the woodwork and under the rocks.
Spanky, for someone who claims to be so smart, you certainly act pretty... well I don't want to violate the newsvine COH (not that you have ever been known for doing that). Anyway, nobody is complaining about how much Romney makes, we are complaining about how little he pays in taxes. Your favorite whipping post, Stewart, may be overpaid as you say, but the point is that because he "works" for it, he pays a much higher rate than Romney. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but why shouldn't they be paying the same rate?
Anna Molly, it is easy to make anonymous claims on the internet. I think your question should be, how many trials do ambulance chasers do? The answer would be, it depends on how fast they run!
Who & when in the past has given there college records and financial aid records. Last time I looked that is not a requirement for the job.
jfk Show us your birth certificate I don't believe your a American. Also post your tax records. I don't believe your paying your tax's.
Countries with a flat tax ... choose one Spanky. Enjoy your stay.
Why thanks dave. But I act pretty cause I am pretty.
And claimed to be smart? Nope, in fact I have already accepted teh position of village idiot, see below. Plus I cannot turn off the italics, so there is that.
How little he pays, eh dave? No he pays a cool $3 mill. That's a lot.
You all don't like the rate. Take it up with congress, it's their rate schedule.
And you know who was behind it, right dave? Which side o' the aisle?
And dave - all the 1%-ers that OWS hates - yep, 'they' work for it. So accordingly you all should just stop bashing them, right?
Tell you what dave - you go read the IRC sections on capital gains, and particularly the legislative comments section. Then you come on back and we can chat about why they don't generate the same rates.
k?
[I like flat fees, much easier.]
...much easier to screw your clients, right Spanky?
Morals and ethics counselor...morals and ethics.
Why thanks ideo, but Cali would really, really miss me.
See we seemed to have lost about 1/2 of the top wage earners in the last few years. Funny, since they jacked our taxes up about that same time.
Like I said ideo - no flat tax cause the politicians will never, ever give up all that control.
Top o' the day to you Mickey. How's that subpoena coming my man?
Oh wait, I said man. Sorry.
You know, now that I know you are a girl [thanks again Feisty] I'm just gonna ignore you.
Not ignore button like a libbie, just regular old ignore.
In 2010 Romney paid an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent on $21.6 million in 2010 income. But of this income Romney had total capital gains income of $12.5 million. and had carried interest income of $7.4 million.
7.4 millions that were paid to him as an Investment manager; not capital gain. Another loophole:
15 percent rate for carried interest is an unfair tax break because investment managers, as Romney was, are providing a service that should be taxed at the higher rate paid by wage earners.
Ok, ignore in a second, but man Mickey you really are kinda stupid.
Or is it you just don't understand the words flat and fees?
Oh well, later Mickster.
Cpaul
The question is did Romney pay what he was required to by the law. If the answer is yes and he is not in Congress then what is the complaint, your problem should be with the people that passed the law and signed it.
ABC News:
Fact Check: The Rich, Their Secretaries and Taxes
Really? When exactly were your taxes "jacked up"? Taxes in America are at their lowest rates since 1931. You must be really old.
Aww...did I strike a nerve, counselor? You seem agitated again. Sorry to piss in your Corn Flakes little man.
Poor poor Spanky...the First Read @!$%#...congrats, junior...you made the grade!
Now I'm sure you have some clients to screw, dontcha....
Morals and ETHICS counselor...
Really RealAmericansFirst - you have got to stop relying so heavily on ThinkProgress.
But hey - kudos on learing all about carried interest. Knowledge is power.
State taxes in Cali were jacked a couple of years ago. In fact Ill. and Conn just jacked theirs up, and you know the result.
So RAF - what pray tell shall Cali, Ill, and Conn do? They are all in a huge hole, and all after raising taxes signifigantly.
Did you hear that? Libbie meme fail.
Mickey - now, now, let's not forget that on this thread alone I was called pretty by dave, and teh village idoit by Tom.
You have a lovely evening little Mickey.
Spanky - How far in the hole do you think California, Illinois and Connecticut will be if your Tea Party pals get their way? Losing all that federal road, Medicaid and education money has to hurt.
You want to see your state taxes skyrocket, keep pushing for cuts to the federal government.
Or don't you remember what happened when Reagan did that? Property tax rates went to record levels.
You get what you ask for sometimes, Spanky.
...morals and ethics, my man...morals and ethics. Try not to forget that...you are going to need all you can muster, junior.
[Or don't you remember what happened when Reagan did that? Property tax rates went to record levels.]
RAF,
Spanky is an angry ambulance chaser who thinks someone else wants what he "has". He couldn't hold a job so he branched out on his own (so he says). He lives in a state that is soooooo terrible (the "libbies" wrecked it) yet he stays...so why is that? Because he's stuck there...or he's just an idiot. He spends A LOT of time posting here, yet he's just sooo busy. Translation: He's probably screwing his clients...billing them for time spent here when he should be working on their "case". The State Bar of Cali frowns upon this practice,
Oh, and be sure to ask him about those stellar morals and ethics of his...he's sure to amaze you.
Here's an interesting article from The Atlantic:
If we all placed Spanky on ignore, do you think he would continue posting to himself?
I liked the bit on The Daily Show where it also showed that Bain helped lobby to get these lower rates through for people like Romney. Sort of puts it into perspective when he accuses Gingrich of unethical lobbying practices. They are both a couple of scumbag politicians and businessmen who don't care about the American people.
So how much of your wealth went to all taxes last year? Buffett,Buffett's sectary, Obama,Romney,Newt,Nancy,Me,You - No One Knows . That's the problem .
Flighty Dead Head - Why is Buffet fighting the IRS if he's so happy to pay taxes? His secretary earns well over $110k so is in a very high marginal tax bracket. Most of Buffet's direct income is from capital gains, so of course he pays a lower net rate. Learn something instead of screeching all the time.
Colorado Man,
Maybe you've been missing out on the discussion, so you're not up on the issues. The discussion centers around the fairness of a tax structure that allows multi-millionaires and billionaires to pay a lower effective tax rate than their hired help. No one is talking about cheating on taxes or the legality of paying a lower rate. Buffet pays his legal share of taxes, but, advocates for increasing the capital gains rate (as has been supported by many other ultra-wealthy people). He's never fought with the IRS on taxes and certainly doesn't owe any, so, I don't know where that claim of yours comes from.
And now the truth comes out - Buffett's secretary makes an astonishing $200-500k per year. Yes, friends, she's a 1%er who just bought a second home with it's own putting green.
Changes the narrative, doesn't it? Just a little?
Have to be careful not to whack the wrong people. Taxing ALL capital gains as employment income hits the elderly trying to live off of investments, or the middle-aged just trying to build a bit of a nest egg. There needs to be a threshold where this cuts in that makes sense. Maybe $25-30K per year would make sense. Screwing these folks would not only be wrong, it would be counter-productive, as it's likely that it force many into the Medicaid system - not a good idea!
Q22,
$200K doesn't even put you close to the 1% of top earners and $500K doesn't either. Where do you guys go to get all of your facts?
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Think it takes a million bucks to make it into the Top 1% of American taxpayers?
Think again. In 2009, it took just $343,927 to join that elite group, according to newly released statistics from the Internal Revenue Service.
betty, so your higher taxes are closing the budget deficit? I don't think so, 900 million in the hole thats alot of taxes to raise.
A-DUH!!!
Of course, the
rich guyjob creator is going to think any rules that favor him are "fair"! Do you really think the guy who actually brought a gun to a gun fight is going to feel bad for the dude who only brought a knife?Yo noidster - I sure hope you are not using a shiny Apple to type these fantastic comments.
Apple - you know the company that made $40 plus billion in the last four months. Apple that sold 60 million shiny new devices, 100% of which were made overseas.
Apple that sits atop $60 billion in cash in overseas accounts.
Apple that flat out told the NY TImes Saturday that none of those jobs is ever coming to the US.
Say Noid - you think the tax laws are favoring the mighty Apple?
Bill Gates recently said:
Of course you gotta laugh at his "charitable" donations. When your church requires you to tithe 10%, calling it charity is using the term loosely. I'm not against giving money to your preferred church, but to call it an act of charity when it is required is a bit of a stretch.
nisl - governor Quinn, in the great state of Illinois said the same thing. Then, last year he jacked them up 2/3.
Guess what? Illinois is still in the whole. Conn. did it, and god knows Cali did it.
Quinn specifically said the ONLY way out was to raise taxes and that it would fix the deficit.
So why then did that fail?
Gates, Buffett are free to pay as much as they want. Odd that they are good at talking about it, bad at doing it.
Yes Spanky you're right, we should go back to the feudal system. I nominate you to be the village idiot.
Here is where the argument blows up in Democrats' faces:
The liberal rant about the "rich" paying their "fair share" is deliberately worded so that the average joe gets the message that the rich pay nothing. Zip. Zilch nada.
Now, Average Joe may, himself, be paying that, given that, in the last year for which we have complete data, (2009), 53% of Average Joes paid NO federal taxes- and many of them got welfare in the form of refundable "tax credits" from the 47% of us who DO pay federal taxes.
So, out there in the public domain is the FACT that the Romneys paid over six million dollars to the IRS over two years.
Now, take into consideration that the AVERAGE rate paid by the 47% of us who pay taxes is eleven percent- and the Romneys paid fifteen percent.
Take those two facts together- and the DNC talking point becomes one of those exploding cigars.
Add to that "fail" the results of the Fed meeting today- they say that the economy will continue to limp along until the end of 2014. All indicators are poor- and there is still a threat of a double dip. Add to THAT the fact that they are still searching desperately for 2% growth in the last quarter of 2011- food luck with that- they predicted three percent growth for Quarter III- and got 1.8%- a number, by the way, that is under question.
It was a pretty hot topic in Davos this week. Secretary Geithner looked about as sure of his answers as he looked when explaining TurboTax.
No, I wasn't there. The beauty of the Internet meant I could log in.
I did. Not a good meeting for Team USA.
All in all. Obama's yammering is not going to work quite as well as it has in the past. He has a record, and it stinks. Indications are, it isn't getting better any time soon.
"Mitt Romney says he understands the middle class, and that he knows it's not easy keeping a roof over your family's heads — as well as vacation roofs in San Diego, New Hampshire, and Park City, Utah." –Jay Leno
easy there spanky, everyone knows why the rich (for that matter, any taxpayer) doesn't want to pay more in taxes,,, Government throws so much of it away.
Government spending reminds me of some organizations wanting you to contribute funds to help an underprivelged group. Yet, their "administrative costs" eats up far more than what the group gets.
I do like how obama is embracing trickle down economics...
I accept.
Like I told my last boss - you can call me anything you want - associate, staff attorney, head agitator, and you can put me anywhere on the letterhead, top, middle, bottom.
The only thing I care about is the compensation package.
So Tom, we talking Anna Molly type money, John Stewart money, or what?
Job1 - it is all about cash flow, or in the case of obama not being evicted in 2013.
No joe, no bo, you do realize that our taxes are graduated? Nobody pays taxes on the first $20,000 they earn, not Joe Smo, not you, and not Mitt Romney (not even our dear old Spanky). So you do understand that yes, you can require a person who makes only $20,000 a year to pay something, but that at the same time you will be increasing taxes for the top 1% as well. In fact, you will be increasing your own taxes. While there may be some merit to the argument that everyone "needs to have some skin in the game," the real argument is why those earning the same amount of money do not pay the same rate of taxes. Even the village idiot must realize that paying 30% in taxes on profit from an investment makes more sense than earning nothing by sticking it in your mattress.
NJNB -- Defending our tax code? Too funny! I bet my kid pays a heck of lot more in actual taxes than you. No wonder you want to keep the status quo. You like other people carrying the load.
Psst: dave - taxes are for the ugly. :)
Just look at how the 11% average is formed and consider what Dave said that no one pays taxes on the first $20k of earnings. It takes in all income earners.
But if you look at the medium income earner that makes about $50,000 a year that pays about 22% including the payroll tax (which Romney doesn’t pay) in Federal taxes.
I thought Obama told us he was going to fix the economy, I sure hope he starts soon. The reason the dems dont mind raising taxes is because they always forget to pay them.
Sorry to disappoint you all, but a lot of richest say that, so they aren't ridden into the Ground themselves. And others give to the parties, just so their name is on the donor list, just in case it is checked by the politicians before handing out grants, loans, or contracts.
Spanky, didn't Leona say something similar .... just before they put her in jail?
Gates, Buffett are free to pay as much as they want~Spanky
Spanky if you are suggesting that we use a "pass
the hat approach" to foreign and domestic spending then I would suggest that the
Pubs, such as yourself, pay for all the incursions that you seem so fond of in
foreign countries. Yes lets have the people who favor whatever type of endeavor
that they want to encourage also pay the freight. I think there is another big
Navy flat top getting ready to fund so I'm sure you won't mind the several
billion necessary to build it being split between you and the other barristers
in your firm. Just wait for the tab for Iran ......that should persuade you to
limit empire building.
uh, who or what is stopping Buffett from giving more of his money to the US Federal govt if he would like to?
Why should Buffett pay more when the rest of the 1%ters will not. Its only if all the 1% ters do their part that you can start to put a dent towards reducing the deficit.
So how much you need there GWNO?
Say you think that if they actually were to cut spending it'd put a dent in the old deficit?
Shoot Buffett owes millions in back taxes. How about he start by stopping all the lawsuits and paying?
Actually, Mr. Buffett has offered to match any additional payments made by any Republicans in Congress 1-for-1...and if Mitch McConnell wishes to make any payments towards lowering the deficit/debt he'll go 3-for-1.
It turns out that Mr. Buffett has already had one taker...Scott Rigell of Virginia has accepted the challenge and will "donate" 15% of his Congressional salary during his first term to the challenge...$49,000 (you know, that paltry sum that you Conservatives laughed at last week).
Ok gwno, I agree with you, but only if the new IRS law to incease the taxes on the 1% states that all taxes paid go directly to the defecit and not spent on another program. no ifs, ands nor buts.
Noid - care to guess what Buffett and his company currently owes, but is fighting, right now?
But, sure - he's is super nice to offer.
Now if we could just get all the federal gov. employees that owe billions in back taxes to pay.
Why should Buffett care about anyone else? If he thinks it's a noble thing to do, he should do it. Maybe Billy Gates can join Mr. Warren. They can be the start of the Pro-Choice mega-rich who choose to contribute their "Fair-share" to the government. I'm sure the Pro-Choice Hollywood types would join right in on the action, they might even have a telethon! Wouldn't that be exciting?
As the federal government spends about $4 billion in deficit spending daily, $49,000 accounts for a little over one second of that spending.
Don't make blanket statements about 1%s not paying enough taxes. I imagine my wife and I fall into that group and in 2011 we paid 33% of our gross income in taxes (federal, state, local) not counting the 10% we donated to our church and other charities. There may be a few that don't pay much but please stop insinuating that 1%s don't pay their fair share. I think 33% of my gross is more than fair. And if one of those mega rich guys wants to pay more let him.
Well said Rick.
Fair isn't what they mean. What they mean is "We want more. You have more."
No one likes or wants to pay taxes but as Ben Franklin opined, the only things that are for sure are death and taxes.
While fully within the law that he did not make Mitt paid his taxes. His tax rate on his total income is far below the total income of average people for whatever reason. As an invester I take advangage of tax breaks too although not to the level of millionaires and billionaires. The big difference is that most folks are struggling right now to pay the mortgage or rent and to put food on the table while people who demonstrate that they don't care about the average person makes far more money than the average person will ever dream of making seems unfair. The big problem seems to be with actual EARNED income in the sense that one has to do something to EARN the money and not get it because some fund manager put money in the right investments and have enough money to make a difference in one's portfolio. Yes, I get money from investments but my tax rate is far greater than Romney's because it is all based on %age. The percentage of what he is able to invest is far greater than what I can invest and thus the amount received from dividends, although both of us may get the same rate of return, will mean that because he has more invested he will get more actual money in return. I don't hate him because he gets money from his investments but that the tax laws are so unfair that I pay a larger percentage of my total income than he does. I earned more of a percentage than he did but he got more money because the actual dollars invested was more.
People look at it like poor baby billionaire or millionaire with several houses when the average Joe is struggling to keep one roof over his head. If those who have more pay more percentage wise, people could relate and say okay that's fair. But, when someone who is struggling pays a larger percentage than one who isn't struggling that upsets the former.
Take the example of a single mother with a couple of kids to rear. To keep from all the stupidity we'll say she is a widow. She makes 40K a year. If we (to make it easy to understand) assess taxes at 10% she is paying $4K which only leaves her 36K to pay for rent, food, clothing, medical costs for herself and her kids not to mention babysitter and transportation she is barely eking out a living. She isn't living high on the hog. She shops at the thrift store to stretch her income. Then we have a millionaire who makes, let us say 4M a year from whatever source and he pays 10% in tax. That means he pays 40K would leave him with 3, 600, 000. Do you think he could make ends meet on 3.6 million dollars? Maybe, if his income is down this year he'll have to do with last years yacht but putting food on the table or a roof over his head would be no problem.
Why is it that in industrialized nations, the US is the only country without health insurance. And don't throw up the fact that you've heard on American TV that Canadian health care isn't as good as the US. That's baloney! If you have been diagnosed with a serious illness as two of my family members have been in the last couple of years - you get the care you need quickly. Both relatives are doing quite well. I have never heard of anyone here dying from lack of care.
Why is it that there is this debate about fairness in the US. I don't hear that here. The "OCCUPY" movement that they had in Toronto really fell flat. Not many have anything to gripe about. Canada is running a deficit - but our homes are mostly paid for and we haven't had the real estate crisis like south of the border. Our banks have rules. There was a time when we lost our AAA credit rating, but we dug our way out of it.
We pay our taxes and the rates here are higher - no squabbles. We have something here Canada called the Old Age Security (this is over and above the Canada Pension Plan which sort of like your social security) It gives an extra $530+ for those that have income less that $60,000 per year after the retirement age of 65. If your income is higher they claw it back to scale. My family income is one of those that fortunately is being clawed back. A friend said to me not long ago "Isn't it terrible that they claw it back?" My answer is "NO" I consider myself fortunate and we do not gripe if those that are hard pressed are getting OUR money.
If we can do this in Canada - why on earth can't you?
Sheesh! Why would anyone need more that $50,000 a day to live - like Romney? Do people at this earning level beef about higher taxes, just so that they can sit around counting more of it? Its obscene!
When Dubya signed the tax bill after he was elected he said it was because it was "surplus". Well your surplus is gone (for many stupid reasons) so maybe you should start digging yourself out.
Great White North Observer Canada and Australia both offer health insurance you pay through through your taxes as does Germany. IT IS NOT FREE. IT IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! All three countries also offer private health insurance which most middle class and rich people pay for. Private health insurance allows you immediate treatment at any private doctor, immediate admittance to a hospital and medicines.
When I was in Australia, socialized medicine had a 3 month waiting period for what the doctor would claim was optional surgery and a two month waiting period for tests. I used my private health insurance was admitted that night by the hospital, operated on the next day and home the next day. The private dermatologist took me the same day with private health insurance and in a week determined what my allergies were using the scratch test.
No patient without health insurance is turned away from a clinic or hospital in the U.S. I was in Paterson General Hospital and there was a steady stream of ambulances arriving at the hospital at night. None of the patients had health insurance and as triage was used, the most serious, gun shots, knifings, car accident patients were taken before me. Time and again I heard "no insurance" or people too injured to reply. All were treated.
That is why the rest of us pay through the nose for health insurance in the U.S. We have to pay for the uninsured.
Maximum Canadian income tax is 29% and the maximum U.S. tax is 35%. Canada has a giant loophole. All income not derived in Canada is Tax Free! That means if you invest outside of Canada say in property or banks or any thing, Canada does not tax Canadian citizens on foreign earned income.
Romney used his brains and ability to make a lot of money. If you looked at his tax records, all his money is in blind trusts and the names of the securities are listed. His father was not born rich and Romney had summer jobs, notably as a security guard at a Chrysler Auto Plant. He went to Harvard and got a MBA and went to work and quickly climbed the ladder, demonstrated his abilities and made a lot of money.
Are all you jealous? The U.S. income tax rate was 90% in 1960. It was counterproductive as money had to be channeled into certain areas to avoid the taxes. Common sense prevailed and now to have your money make money it has to be invested in stocks and bonds. Bonds are issued by cities, school districts, and companies to get money to pay for new projects and expansion.
Capital is obtained through the stock market to build businesses, companies and expand. All these investments put people to work.
Romney does not eat the money he gets. It is plowed back into the economy.
Anyone who believes for one second that the government knows better than you how to spend your money is delusional.
Romney has paid his legitimate share of taxes. He is not indicated for tax evasion and has an army of accountants looking through the laws to find the least amount he owes. If any of you believe for one second that the Romney fortune is not invested in America at the level to create jobs and run industry, go out and prove it.
Canada has a provision to take a certain % of its taxable income and pay down the debt. The U.S. pays unions over $3 billion a year. Obummer wasted $3.9 billion in failed renewable energy companies.
The bloated government payroll can be easily cut another 500,000 jobs and that includes the specially made job that Obummer made for his anti American Pastor Wright.
Listen up Buck Naked, a whole lot of dumber people than you have already post the exact same comment. If you don't know the answer already, why don't you go back to the posts when the Buffet comment first came out. If you already know the answer to your own question, don't waste your time and ours by posting it. Anyway, Buffet already promised to match, dollar for dollar, every extra buck the Republican politicians chip into the national kitty.
Romney does not eat the money he gets. It is plowed back into the economy................or off shore accounts apparently......oh and in swiss accounts
Mitt Romney, the Republican Party's vaunted
job creatorbest example of the need for a Buffett rule, is toast. Newt Gingrich, thefiery debaterlobbyist by any other name, is the jelly. President Obama is eating them for breakfast.Don't talk to me about taxes and tax rates. I just put mine together (had all the paperwork ready by Jan 1) and filed today. I will b@#$@ slap the first person I see saying the rich need another break.
I'll trade you. In fact tell you what there phinep - I'll pay you entire years worth if you agree to pay my next estimated quarterly payment.
Deal?
But hey, way to get a jump on your refund [you are getting one, right? Otherwise there would be absolutely no reason to pay before the deadline].
I do it to get it over with. Simple. Always have. And, no, I don't get a refund. But, I also don't have to fight the crowds in April, and Mr. phinephancy is anal about getting it done and over with (meaning I have to take care of it). So, get out of my face and out of my way, Spanky, or I will travel cross country for the pleasure of slapping you.
I need a drink, and a 13.9% tax rate.
PS Mr. phinephancy better stay out of my way, too, this evening. He is NOT on my top 10 hit parade tonight!
Spanky-- You are one nasty son of a b!&ch! You have earned the IGNORE function. Goodbye and good riddance.
Took you long enough Tom! lol
Works like a charm! ;o)
phinep - if you are bringing drinks, come on down.
Tom - oh noooooo. What will I do?
I just hope you can work it better than the others around here who say they have me on ignore, yet continue to respond.
By Tom. :)
Woo pp, you gotta little class envy going on. And watch your language dearest, children may be reading.
So make some long term investments. Try some muni-bonds, many are tax free. It could be your guilty pleasure!
And quit drinking pp, especially while you're posting.
Gosh those Libs must wear out that "Ignore" button. That's probably why it keeps breaking.
JoAannaSmith1...Your posts remind me of a hooker who just can't seem to get enough $. She'll do anything to get a John. Class envy? Really now...You have absolutely NO CLASS lady! In fact you remind me of those overly bejeweled, made up, and plasticized old women in their Mercedes driving around under the delusion that they are still impressing people. Pssssst I got news for ya...No one cares.
Didn't I catch you the other night on Mob wives? Even those "ladies" have more "class" than you
Reminds you of Hookers eh Torpedo?
Oh my.
Poor, poor Ms. Torpedo. I hope you got tested before marraige.
"I will b@#$@ slap the first person I see saying the rich need another break."
The rich need another tax break. Now bring all of your puss ass liberal friends.....you will need them.
@phine Shame on you for your post. Just the other day you were commenting how you wouldn't let your grandchildren read the language from the conservatives. I can't wait until they go to school and tell someone they are going to b@%#!* slap them and they learned it from grandma their role model.
LOL you people crack me up with your skewed logic.
phinephancy-4252115 You are jealous because Romney has more intelligence and a better education and knows how to invest and make more money and pay less taxes legally? There will always be top dogs, middle dogs and low dogs.
The top dogs are the ones to strive to be and study.
There are ways to take a little money and make it grow. It just takes intelligence and education.
I don't get it..Mitt claims to love the military, you know those guys and gals who make this country safe so he and Rick, and Newt, and Dick, and John Bolton, and Rush, and Beck and Hannity and guys like Spanky don't have to.
I mean, my father worked for Patton and was awarded the Bronze Star. My father in law was a waist gunner who was awarded the Silver Star and was imprisoned in Stalag 17 after being shot down over the Netherlands. I was in the Marines. My daughter is a Navel Officer and her husband just returned from the AFG.
Why won't this guy pay his fair share?
Torpedo - by the current tax laws and regs he is paying what he is suppose to. If you think that isn't fair then what is fair to you? BTW, thank you for your service and your daughter and son in law. My son is an Army 1st LT and is an EOD officer.
Torpedo, Rick is right. While it seems unfair and probably is what Romney did is perfectly legal. What needs to be done is to change the laws. Unfortunately that is going to be extremely difficult since many in Congress, especially in the Senate from both parties, would suffer from laws that would require them to pay more in taxes.
Torpedo You, Why doesn't Obummer learn to use the money he has obtained from the U.S. tax payer wisely and cut the bloated government payrolls? Why doesn't he listen to his generals to get the U.S. out of the Afghan war? Why did Obummer reduce import tariffs from Australia, New Zealand and South Korea so they can dump their products in the U.S. costing American industries more jobs. Why did Clinton include Canada in NAFTA canceling more U.S. jobs? Why doesn't Obummer jaw bone more countries to do their share in the Straits? France and England have aircraft carriers!
Obummer has no military experience, no economic, financial or business experience. Obummer has never had one employee except a part time dog trainer!
Obummer has wasted billions of U.S. tax payer money. Obummer has paid off the unions. Obummer has no business experience and doesn't know how to select people to spend the U.S. Tax dollar.
Why give him more money to waste????? He will have increased the federal deficit by 67% by the time he leaves office!
Malibu Mitt thinks hes gona slide on this one . Anyone else notice how much Mitt is beginning to look a lot like Mel Gibson . In the last couple of weeks his casual Malibu "Mom jeans" and no tie. The people of La Jolla are laughing their butts off .
I heard Mitt borrowed those jeans from Obama.
When you have something intelligent and worthy of commenting, let the rest of us know.
"I'm having trouble warming up to Mitt Romney. He looks like the guy in the restaurant that comes to your table to make sure everything's all right." –David Letterman
And is so clueless always does so when you have a mouth full of food...
Thanks for the giggle Job1
Fisty Redhead...if you govenor ran and won for raising taxes, why is your state in such a pathetic state? Shouldn't your state be leading in something other than murders and corruption?
Bob - good question. Unfortunately I hail from the same state at Feisty. Our govenror is an idiot. Raised our taxes 67% and nothing has changed. Glad I didn't vote for him.
Sorry bob - you need to address your question to 'fisty'...
My name is 'Feisty' - I understand, most rookies make the same mistake! ;o)
Lot's of luck!
Seems like Fisty loves voting people in who are unqualified for their positions and then defending them.
Fiesty...sorry about that!
So Fisty voted for George W. Bush and defended him? If anyone was unqualified it was him.
Who are you kidding?
No you're not - in fact, you doubled down!
Fisty?......OK we now understand now what type of fetishes Feisty is into...women who have been used quite a bit.
Oh my, aren't you clever there Spacy1973 with your feeble attempt to make a funny!
Tell us hon, how much do you make
strollingtrolling?"Oh my, aren't you clever there Spacy1973 with your feeble attempt to make a funny!"
I wasn't trying to be funny.
"Tell us hon, how much do you make
strollingtrolling?"About as much as you do posting for MSNBC. Do lie and tell us your don't have a hot line to these threads, unless your are willing to admit that your day job is to post for this website evidenced by the fact that your posts always seem to show up first.
Slow & stupid is no way to go through life darling! ;o)
The fascination about who posts first is hilarious at best & pathetic at worst!
You right wing nuts just can't pass up a good old fashion conspiracy theory...
Facination? This is just an observed fact about blogging here being your day job. If you wish to continue to lie please do it over on ThinkProgress....or is that your second day job?
Job1. And you have nothing creative in/from your own mind to add to the conversation. I do detect a large amount of jealousy on your part. Do you have the same intelligence, education and drive as Romney? Could you with a Mexican father attain his position?
Ridiculous Redhead, you need to be reminded that calling someone stupid is a violation of the COH. Several times you have been observed violating the COH and you have not contributed anything to the conversation except unworthy comments, ridiculous comments, mockery and thoughtless baseless opinions. Let us know when you have something worthwhile to contribute.
Romney was born to a Mexican father, served 2 1/2 years in France as a Mormon missionary. He worked during college as a security guard at a Chrysler assembly plant, received from Harvard a MBA. Obtained a position in business and demonstrated his brilliance and worked his way up the ladder. Made millions of dollars and has the money in a blind trust, the contents of which are on the net. He has invested all his money in U.S. bonds and shares in the U.S. stock market. These bonds are issued by cities, school districts and companies to put middle class people to work in the cities, schools and factories.
The companies he owns shares in put middle class people to work and help expand their industries.
The U.S. government has amply demonstrated its inability to use tax money competently.
Why give money to a government entity that has proven it is incapable of using the money it already has. Giving money to people who cannot use the money to create private industry jobs is unproductive.
I invite discussion, comment and disagreement.
No jealousy on my part. I just feel sorry for people like you that can't see the person who Romney really is.
Romney is a person who unlike Obama wants all Americans to strive to be wealthy. Anyone who is satisfied with being middle class their entire life is who Obama panders to. Of course if you love your job and are satisfied with the pay then that is a totally different story.
Ole Mitt had better get in gear, because he is in danger of losing Florida.
The State of the Union: "Focus on the mission at hand... work together." - Barack Obama "There is nothing wrong with power, if power is used correctly." - Martin Luther King, Jr. Join us in active change at
While Democrats are making Romney the "poster boy for the Buffet Rule", "we the people" are making him the poster boy for GIVING to charities.
After all, Romney always gives 15% of his income to charity and the Obama's ( before the Presidency) only gave 1%. Oopssss.
Liberals only like to spend OTHER PEOPLE's money.
Who's greedy now ?????????????????
Once again Leona the Loon falls flat on her face... lol
Willard gave it to the Mormon Church Leona - it is called tithing - look up the definition and get back to us...
Make sure to eat some of that special applesauce first... ;o)
LEONA: Your blind rage about Obama will never allow yourself to look at facts but consider this.
Obama after graduating from Harvard worked a a community organizer. A fact that your crowd finds so amusing. He could have gone to any fancy law firm and made millions, he chose not to. Romney wrote out a check, big deal. He's got hundreds of millions compared to Obama's one or two millions.
Beyond that, Mormons are expected to donate at least 10% of their income in tithing. I've never seen Romney go into the inner city, get his hands dirty and help underprivilaged kids. Get back to me when he does, would you?
BTW: Warren Buffett & Bill Gates, both liberals have given away hundreds of millions of THEIR OWN MONEY.
Everyone doesn't do their works to be seen of men.
Is that why you give?
Now Feisty, you are also forgetting that he gave to the George W. Bush Presidential Library. The left hand knew not what the right hand giveth (or something like that - for surely Romney expected nothing in return for that gift to promote W's eventual literacy). But George and Barbara must have been secretly very pleased and that probably has nothing to do with why Romney gets those private meeting with Poppy Bush.
hey feisty,
I have news for you, charity is charity.
Why does it matter to you if Romney gave 10% ( of the 15%) of his money to his church?
It's still called charity.
BTW, Obama asked for the name calling to stop.( I feel sorry for your kids.)
I wonder why liberals only like free speech when they are the ones doing the talking. That's fascism.
LOL
Intrepid,
With all your blustering , I would think you had all the facts.
Romney , as a young man, was sent to do volunteer work for his church overseas.
Darling, I told you to eat your applesauce prior to responding - you're still incoherent!
In the real world that is known as DRAFT DODGING!
Willard fled to France to avoid Viet Nam! Them there are facts toot's like em or not!
feisty,
in case you havent realized it, through your kool aid induced delusions....... you can't spin things to diminish people and ignore the facts.
you are the only one who trusts anything that regurgitates out of your mouth.
have another kool aid, maybe you'll feel better and stop calling people names. YOur President is very disappointed in you.LOL
Feist
You Progressives didn't seem to mind all the Draft Dodgers burning the Draft Cards and FLEEING to Canada. At least Willard was on a Religious Missionary tour. And that dear lady is a Draft Deferment.
FLASH leona....
You personally prove your statement to be just another RWNJ lie with nearly every post you make. DUH!
Trying to be like your hero dubya? "You can't get on your high horse, then take the low road."
????????????????????????????
ROTFL!
not as stupid,
sorry for you but the truth will be heard whether you liberals like it or not. You can't use kool aid logic to make sense.
People are smarter than you think. Look at the numbers.....8.5% unemployment and $15 trillion plus debt.
BTW, why is it that liberals only like free speech when it's one of their own speaking???.....and liberals only like to spend OTHER PEOPLE's money !
YES! Look at the numbers - from 1999 through today.
Proof that most of your assinine positions are simply rnc/tea spin and lies and, you are correct:
we have caught on to your rhetoric, see through your illogical sales pitches, and we are sick and tired of it.
e.g. : Re-read what you posted, particularly the last two lines.
Nothing but a lot of tea-gop talking point drivel; nothing but RWNJ opinions that you all are hoping America will buy.
ANOTHER FLASH: WE WON'T buy it anymore, so take it on down the ramp....
THAT IS THE FACT, and you have proven exactly what I posted to begin with.
Thanks...
Leona,
Don't you ever want to come up with a few original lines of your own? These Republican catch phrases don't have any probative value. You can't prove or support any of these claims with documentation. It doesn't lead to further enlightening discussion. Why don't you just say "liberals' moms wear army boots" and be done with it. Same level of mentality and fewer keystrokes for you.
Schumer, the great comedian. Lord help us. Not a republican or democrat, just happen to live in New York.
Giving retired people a small break on capital gains makes sense. Giving everyone a break on interest and dividend income under $5000 makes sense (in encouraging savings for self-reliance). But how does it make any sense to let someone clip bond coupons or receive dividends in the millions of dollars as their SOLE source of income and pay much less in taxes than ordianary working Americans . It makes NO sense. And Romney is a poster boy because he paid a very low percentage on a huge income that was all passive - all dividend and interest type of income. Why should the bluebloods of Kennebunkport or Newport who create nothing get the big breaks? Why is passive income better than real sweat income? Oops, CLASS WARFARE!! Arrest me now!!
BEYOND: Yes, CLASS WARFARE, CLASS WARFARE, CLASS WARFARE. Just trying to sound like a Righty.
Ever notice that it's ownly class warfare when the working class and the poor challenge the uber rich, but it's quite alright for the wealthy to beat up on the poor and call them "welfare queens"???
Why should the rich get all the tax breaks? Simple, who the hell do you think writes the tax laws, poor people? Why do you think that the GOP Congress will do even politically unpopular things for the rich. They know damn well who's signing their pay check.
It is axiomatic Intrepid.
Wow, let see, I don't recall anyone questioning John Kerry's "13%' tax rate that he paid, on an estate significantly larger than Romney's and one in which he did nothing to establish (i.e. his wife's $) back in 2007. Funny how the Demcrats, I'm sorry, I meant to say MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS (not that there's a difference) missed that one. POTUS and Party- Hypocrites and "victims" to the end.
ONEMAN: And I don't recall hearing John Kerry whine about taxes, do you?
Secondly, our economy was doing a hell of a lot better at the time, most people were doing OK and we did not have a housing market meltdown. Most rich liberals don't whine incessantly about taxes the way the Right does. If you're a patriot, you won't bitch about paying taxes, especially if you supported all those wars that Dubya started. We'll be paying for those over the next 30 years.
oneman: no one is saying that Romney violated the tax code, simply that the tax code has been rigged by the rich for themselves. It has to be changed so our nation can get back to prosperity for everyone and not just a few at the top. And, since you seem to have missed it, the big difference between John Kerry and Mitt Romney is that Kerry is concerned with ALL Americans while Romney concerned only with himself. Kind of the difference between Democrats and RepubliCAN'Ts too
Incepid...I don't recall Romney complaining about paying more than Kerry...what is your point?
Oneman:
So let's decrease Kerry and Romney's taxes to ZERO. Newt doesn't want unearned (Thurston Howell III) income to be taxed at all. Newt's policy is that if you can swear that is was just a capital gain - that you did absolutely no work for it (other than craning your neck at the Wall Street Journal) THEN YOU PAY NO TAX NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE. That is absolutely logical. Poor wage earners with two and three children should pay more so that these talented financial times readers can create more wealth to pass tax free (of course no "death" tax) to their own darling little Fantleroys. Newt is such a good warrior against class warfare that he has become "Hood Robin". He takes all of the everyman Robins and puts a hood over their head while he secretly plunders them so that good clean investors (with impeccably manicured hands) can keep every penny of their profits and shop at Tiffany's. Take from the slobbering worthless lower middle-class and give to Warren Buffet (whether he wants it or not). Romney began to fathom at the last debate that Newt wants him to pay no taxes. Romney didn't know whether to jump for joy because Newt was saying something extremely stupid or because the implementation of Newt's economic strategy would fatten his Swiss bank account. Romney smiled. It's so good to be rich when everyone is dying to make you richer. Romney will soon start crowing that he wants to pay a little bit of tax - that Newt would take his skin out of the game. He will appear so magnanimous to the teabaggers (but a little bizarre because nobody should want to pay anything to benefit anybody else). Romney's handlers will write a story that begins, "Once upon a time there was a multimillionaire with entirely passive income who agreed to pay some tax - just a little bit of tax - but certainly more than zero... "
Actually, this figure you right-wingers love to spread is a flat-out lie. In fact, virtually EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN with an income pays some federal taxes. Even welfare recipients, in most cases, have to pay at least some taxes on that income. When I was between jobs and on unemployment, a large chunk of my unemployment checks had federal taxes deducted from them.
What you're thinking of is the federal income tax. And yes, people living in poverty don't have to pay it (because they can't afford to). However, what you're forgetting is that there are other federal taxes. Payroll taxes, Social Security, etc. FICA, anyone? In fact, the number of Americans who qualify as exempt from all federal taxes is extremely small. Nice try, though.
It's also worth noting that these are the people doing the crap jobs for little or no pay. They wash our dishes, drive our cabs, police our streets, scrub our toilets, pave our roads, and bag our groceries. They work harder than anyone, often 60+ hours a week at two or more jobs, for very little pay and no benefits (10% employee discount notwithstanding). Without them, society would grind to a hault.
And what do they get for their sacrifice? Sleep deprivation, curable illness, malnutrition, depression, and ridicule from wealthy snobs such as yourself. They pay their fair share and then some. You should be ashamed of yourself, though I won't be holding my breath.
Why is it eveyone is a 'victim'?
Umm I never even used the word "victim" in my comment, nor did I use any synonyms thereof. Did you even read my comment before responding to it? I wasn't calling anyone a "victim." I was pointing out that the poorest among us do, in fact, contribute-- disproportionately, in fact. This was in contrast to another comment that portrayed our nation's poor as lazy good-for-nothings who don't pay a dime in taxes and don't lift a finger to contribute to society. That comment was not only inaccurate, but also deeply offensive, so I felt compelled to correct the record.
Pointing out the fact that an unacceptably vast portion of our population lives-- and WORKS-- in poverty does not amount to calling them "victims" who should be pitied. In fact, as someone who was once poor myself, I would've taken exception if someone had referred to me as a victim. In some ways, I suppose you could say they are. But most of them sure as hell don't act like it. They hold their heads up high and persevere despite rich Republican snobs leeching all the wealth out of our economy.
Taxes on the wealthy will be going up, probably on March 1st of this year. If they don't the repubs have zero chance of winning the presidency this fall and the teabaggers in congress who are up for reelection can make those early flight reservations home or to whatever rock they crawled out from under. Saw Cantor on MSNBC last night and he sounded like a normal human being for the first time I can recall. If that fish is getting nervous you know the rest of them will be falling in line shortly. Ain't politics great!
The RepubliCAN'Ts look like a bunch of flopping flounders trying to justify their view of government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich. They have gone way beyond their "let them eat cake" view of the rest of is to a "let them eat dirt and die" mentality.
The rich has enjoyed all the benefits that our government has provided to them but they refuse to pay their services to which the tax is to support to run the government sufficiently.
Is it an overdued Buffett rule too late to implement or too soon?
Understand the difference between "Earned Income" (which I'm sure Buffet paid a higher rate than his Sec) and Capital Gains?
ONEMAN: A large percentage of rich people live off of capital gains. How many poor people do you know that can do that??? It's a law which drastically favors the rich. Laws written by rich people, for rich people.
Incipid, The poor can't because they crapped away what they had...what is your point
Crapped away what they had, Bob. Just what did they have to crap away? Was it rent, food, clothing bought at the thrift store or was it the medication they had to pay for because they had no insurance to pay for it as they couldn't afford the super ridiculously high premiums, Bob? Just what is it that they crapped away. Please enlighten us.
I get a laugh out of all these posters talking about Kerry's low tax rate. Of course no one begrudged him the good deal on taxes because the destruction of our economy by the republican president had not kicked in yet. Funny how these guys pushed the good deal until they overreached and it blew up in their faces. Ha! Ha!
Willard "Mitt" Romney made over $21 Million last year and paid less than 14% taxes on all that money. Furthermore, he is running for office saying that he and people like him need more tax breaks. All that is fine and dandy except for if people like Mitt do not help pay the bills they get shoved off on the middle class who already pay at least 35% on their income. You can't tell me that Mitt Romney's world would fall apart if he had to pay a little more.....give me a break! And as far as Corporations being people, we need to remember that Corporate run Capitalism is called Facism!
Rick in Vegas - please don't get the marginal rate confused with the total rate people pay. No one who is "middle class" is going to pay 35% in taxes. I am a "1%er" and my total tax tab (federal, state, local, and an assumption on sales taxes) was about 33% of my gross.
Hey Dems...while you're warming up to the "Buffet rule" how about investigating what Buffet stands to gain with the Canadian pipeline now headed west and the SWEET deal Buffet's got going with China.
Come on folks, lets be equal opportunity accusers here! good grief. Selective memories?
BEEV: None of this is a secret. Buffett is very open about his business ventures so what's your point? Guess it's gotta hurt seeing wealthy liberals willing to do their patriotic duty while guys like Romney, aka, "Ritchy, Rich Boy whines incessantly about paying more taxes.
One would have hoped that people like him who received the best this country has to offer would be more than happy to give back to their nation. But that would mean not taking Republican greed into account.
Joining Vice President Biden are Warren Buffett, Mark Cuban, Edie Falco and founder of ASK and Google in saying it is patriotic to pay taxes. It is amusing that the party who claims to be so patriotic and calls those who disagree with them Socialists and worse would be so unpatriotic when it comes to paying taxes. Just who is supposed to pay for their wars? Did any of Romney's sons or Romney go off to war? Did Newt carry a gun in combat? Such hypocrisy, such hypocrisy, shame on them.
According to the Drudge Report, Buffet's secretary makes between $200,000-$500,000 year. That makes her a millionaire according to al gore, Mr. I invented the internet. that makes her a millionaire b/c his def. is more than $250,000 year! If Buffet would have paid her in stocks, she would pay the same rate as Buffet. Personally Buffet 15% rate should be paid by everyone.
Now that she has become the poster child for Obama's re-election campaign, she should release HER tax returns along with Buffet. Obama has not said anything remotely accurate yet, why do we take him at his word?
Garcia, you just ruined the image of her being a struggling working women trying to pay her bills with that info. The Dems and Media have worked so hard on this kind of image for months.
Obama is the poster boy for "How to look like I'm working when I'm NOT."
He's given 800+ speeches and counting, he GOLFS, goes to Disney World and Martha's Vineyard, sings Al Green songs at fundraisers, snorkels in Hawaii and plays basketball with the NBA.
If Obama can't work with the other side , it shows his inability to LEAD.
That is the whole essence of what a leader 's job is........To LEAD.
.......A leader brings people together, builds a consensus and make decisions that both sides can live with.
How many times has Obama done this?
Answer = ZERO.
ABO
I will say his best accomplishment to date has been imitating Al Green...even though he used the teleprompter.
haha
And, Leona, according to you, even though it was Republicans who pledged Norquist not to raise taxes under any circumstances, who then refused to compromise on anything, who coerced Obama into extending Bush tax cuts for the wealthy for two year because Obama and Democrats cared for those who needed food stamps to survive, who deregulated to the point that greedy corporations, hedge fund managers, and companies that were allowed to become too big to fail by reason of Phil Gramm's 1999 law setting aside Glass Steagall ran roughshod over the world's economy and plunged this nation and the rest of the world into the worst economic abyss since the Great Depression, the only fault for a lack of leadership lies with Obama, who repeatedly begged for bipartisan cooperation.
You're one illogical, self-deluded chick, I'll give you that.
Michael, your kool aid brain waves are flowing again !
Do you call Obama a man asking sincerely for bipartisanship?! He uses that as a talking point against Repubs. He said to John McCain during the healthcare debacle..........."John, the election is over, I WON" and he said "The Repubs can sit in the back seat."
That's your vision of what bipartisan bridge building looks like ????
That's what I call delusional and illogical (your words) .It must be the kool aid.
If it is called the Buffet rule because he wants to pay higher taxes why does he not set the example and pay 30% this year and release his return.
The only thing he could have done to use more props during his speech last night would have been to hire a 6 year old, give him a set of crutches and have him drag a leg as he struggles to the stage. Then Obama could have put his hand on his head and cured him right then and there (sorry kid, you can get antibotics to treat your head).
Same points he talked about during his first State of the Union address...does he think talking about them will make them happen? Hell of a campaign speech though.
haha, do you remember the little boy the President had standing next to him when he signed Obamacare?
He likes using props.
Thanks, RepubliCAN'Ts, for the comments, as inane and misguided as they are. Perhaps you liked Mitch "Bush Budget director who engineered the fiscal crises" Daniels lie filled response. Just sayin...