Donna darling - go take your medication and talk to us in the morning...

Oh, and, make sure YOU plug yourself in before bedtime.... after all, you are so warm & cuddly darlin! ;o)

Pack it up, Joe. Your campaign of hate has failed. This president just owned the party of no tonight. Did you see Cantor looking like someone stole his candy bar? You guys don't have a chance and you know it.

tonybeeerm

I don't know what speech you were listening to, nothing new here, he wants to work with republicans, well if he is by chance re-elected he's going to have to, cause by the numbers congress is going to completely switch to republican control and there is only a prayer for the democrats to stop it. It's a matter of numbers and mathematically the republicans have a huge edge in completely taking over Congress.

As a Democrat (life-long) and an '08 Obama voter, Obama will LOSE BIG TIME in Election 2012 as a result of his pledge to grant rewards for immigration lawbreaking. Obama may win the hearts of the advocates for immigration lawbreaking, but he will LOSE WITH MOST AMERICAN VOTERS (ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS aren't permitted to vote, at least in theory).

Americans across the political spectrum are FED UP with this blackmaret labor scheme and the corresponding catastrophic impositions upon upon American taxpayer resources. We don't want to support a system of corporate welfare by which the true costs of doing business are not reflected in the goods and services rendered --- because these lawbreaking business profiteers pay poverty level wages and no benefits, the true costs of the employment is shifted onto the backs of the American taxpayers who are being forced to pay the healthcare, social welfare, and other costs of their ILLEGAL labor force. And, let's not forget the stolen identities, the employment fraud, the tax fraud, and wage depression and lost job opportunities that resul as well.

The American voters are FED UP! A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!

Donna who? Feisty, who are you talking to?

Feisty, every time I think I might start taking a hard look at Obama, irritating lib's like yourself make me want to close my ears because I can't see how we can possibly have anything in common. You are not helping the democratic party.

tonybeeerm,

What's wrong with hating lawbreakers and criminals?

Mr. Jones78--- Enforcement of our immigration laws (the MOST GENEROUS IN THE WORLD) is NOT "hate". Your statements in this regard are asinine, and your stragegy in this regard involves the most low-brow intellectual dishonesty!

However, if a compromise could be reached whereby young children who were brought to this country who meet other requirements and standards would be given some form of legal status, would you agree that the lawbreaking decision-makaing parents should be deported tout de suite? After all, the bank robber must suffer the consequences, to use your analogy. Do you agree with this?

Facts are facts -- if Americans are not going to create jobs - if Americans are not going to contribute to our society - if Americans are not going to learn the skills needed for today's economy - if Americans are not going to move forward ...

... it's time to find people that will.

'Illegals' come to the United States because they want to better themselves - want to contribute - want to be a part of the American dream. 'Illegals' are trying to do everything that conservatives call 'personal responsibility'. Conservatives talk a good game -- but -- the 'illegals' are actually living it ...

nerm same thing ok.i want to better myself and my family and make my dreams come true.so tomorrow i am going to rob a bank and take all the money and do it.oh wait that is illegal now aren't the way you spell illegal and the way i do the same.it is against the law stupid illegal is illegal

"The answer is self-deportation, which is people decide they can do better by going home because they can’t find work here because they don’t have legal documentation to allow them to work here. And so we’re not going to round people up," Romney said

I like that. It will work if the government makes the employer hiring laws tougher.

@Mr. Jones..... "if two parents robbed a store and their kid was brought along in the child seat in the back of the car, the kid should be punished as well?" No, but the kid should not be allowed to use the money their parents stole to pay for college either. This argument is no different than the claim that illegal aliens should not be deported if it would "break up a family". We break up families every day when U.S. citizens are thrown in jail for breaking the law. Should we not send U.S. citizens to jail if doing so will break up their family? Why do believe illegal aliens should have more rights and protections than U.S. citizens? The DREAM act or any other form of amnesty will only cause more people to illegally sneak into the country with their kids in tow.

@Nerm L.... "'Illegals' come to the United States because they want to better themselves - want to contribute - want to be a part of the American dream..." No, illegals come here to reap the benefits they made no sacrifice for.

"'Illegals' are trying to do everything that conservatives call 'personal responsibility'." I don't know anyone who calls breaking the law to get what they want "responsible"... personal or otherwise.

And why must WE,US Citizens,pay for the Illegal Aliens children? If I rob a Bank to better myself and my children am I not put in jail? Same thing I see here. The Illegals ,no matter what age,are stealing from us the Citizen and Legal Immigrant.

dmac said:

This argument is no different than the claim that illegal aliens should not be deported if it would "break up a family".

illegals come here to reap the benefits they made no sacrifice for.

slodon said:

And why must WE,US Citizens,pay for the Illegal Aliens children?...The Illegals ,no matter what age,are stealing from us the Citizen and Legal Immigrant.

My coworker's mother was deported two days before Christmas. She was in her mid fifties, had a job, owned her own home, her own car, two exhusbands and an adult son,never been in trouble with the law, never been on welfare. She passed eVerify at her job and was gainfully employed. ICE called her up and told her that when she was adopted as an infant in the 1940's, Immigration at the time never told her parents that citizenship was not automatic with the adoption, and that therefore after 50+ years of being a US citizen she was now 'illegal'. She was given no chance to file the appropriate paperwork, no chance to get a lawyer or plead her case in court, and was scheduled for deportation. They impounded her car, her home and her bank account as 'civil asset forfeiture' and my coworker ended up sleeping on a friend's couch for the few weeks remaining until she was deported and now he is homeless.

Should this family have been broken up? Shouldn't she have been given a chance to correct the paperwork mistake her parents made? Why should my coworker be penalized for a mistake his grandparents made?

Mr Jones78...:I mean if two parents robbed a store and their kid was brought along in the child seat in the back of the car, the kid should be punished as well? That's retarded."

Uh no, that's more like, your parents robbed the bank, they're going to jail but you kids get to keep the money they stole.

tony...how can you be so sure of yourself when Obama is showing desperation by pandering to the Hispanic voters?

Also, in case you've been in a cave somewhere, you need to read AngelicaS' comment 1.4.

The majority of the American people, Democrat and Republican alike, are opposed to any form of amnesty.

This country was founded on immigration. The very building blocks of this nation can easily be traced back to the roots of people who came here from around the world. If illegals want to come here, fine... but they must be on the pathway to American citizenship. They do not qualify for any social programs or government assistance until such time as they become and American Citizen either.

Most illegal immigrants want to work and pay taxes as well. They would be more than happy to do that.

Problem is, the 'illegal' status is what makes them desireable to employers - because then employers can skirt payroll taxes and workplace rules.... even though Personal Tax Identification Numbers are available for employees without SSNs, employers PREFER illegals.

What I'm sick of is the demonizing of illegal aliens as if they are some less-than-human scourge. People... they are fcking people..... Illegal immigrants themselves are NOT the problem - it's our system of labor which exploits illegal labor and the politicians who pay lip-service to the problem but benefit from it in reality.

Immigration reform is the #1 necessity. It can take more than a decade and thousands of dollars for someone to legally migrate to the US, and that's WITH family members sponsoring them. We need a simpler, easier, and better way to welcome those who want to work and contribute to this country the opportunity to do so.

#2 employers need to be held accountable. I understand that this can hurt the country at first - but the exploitation of illegal labor is little more than 21st Century Slavery.

These two things must be accomplished simultaneously - otherwise we are unfairly punishing those who want nothing but to work and provide for their families. They take it upon themselves to struggle and risk deportation in order to find work in a country at slave-wages so they can provide for their families. They deserve nothing less than the opportunity to become tax-paying citizens of this country.

But I have a feeling - if you combine a better path to citizenship with higher accountability for employers.... the 'illegal labor' problem will go away, and the 'illegal immigrants' you loath so much will go away as well.

Well let me be more realistic with what I said above - the demand for cheap labor will never go away. The current problem with illegal immigration is simply a continuation of a persistent demand. At first it was state-sanctioned labor, called slavery. Then it was low wages and poor working conditions... the Irish, the Italians, freed-slaves etc were all exploited. Then labor laws and rights to organize came about to fix that injustice. Now it's illegal immigrants filling that demand. It simply went from a state-institution to the underground.

The only thing that can be done is to strike a balance and try to make it as fair as possible for everyone involved. Afterall, it wasn't the slaves at fault in slavery, it wasn't the Irish or Chinese who were at fault for the poor conditions they suffered, and it's not the fault of Mexicans, Hondurans, or other illegal immigrants for the current condition today.

It's the persistent demand for cheap labor - supply and demand - capitalism. Where there is a demand, there will be those trying to fulfill it. All that can be done is to mitigate the injustices rendered, possibly bring the state back into the fold in regulating foreign labor and work programs... expand these programs to cover the demand.

After "7" amnesties, and broken promises by those in office to secure the border, and aggressively go after those who hire illegal aliens. We're supposed to feel compassion, and forgiveness for those who continue to break our immigration laws for what is usually a family member even after they have been grated amnesty? There are plenty of honest, hard working people in the world that desire to be in America, our infrastructure can't handle them all and that's the reason for our immigration laws. And they, and their supporters have turned the 14th Amendment into a joke,

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-4000401.html

Joe Riley is the CEO of the McAllen Texas Medical Center near the Texas-Mexico border. Forty percent of the children born there, nearly 2,400 last year, were the babies of illegal immigrants. And that's just one hospital!

Secure the border, aggressively prosecute those who hire illegal aliens, and bring up to date the applications of those who have legally applied to enter our country then maybe we can discuss an "eighth amnesty" or form of it!

ItsAboutTime:

If illegals want to come here, fine... but they must be on the pathway to American citizenship.

Then USCIS is going to have to step up and not take 16 years to process residency applications. They're also going to have to make it a little more affordable. Currently, from application for a visa to a permanent residency application, it takes one person from Mexico an entire year's worth of income to afford just the filing fees--and then it takes USCIS forever to process (one AP article stated that in 2010, USCIS was just getting to applications filed in 1995.)

They do not qualify for any social programs or government assistance until such time as they become and American Citizen either.

What if the child of a green card holder is on a school bus when it falls off a bridge? Do we not pull that child out of the bus and give that child medical attention because they only have a green card and not naturalization papers yet? If they settle in an area that has a disaster happen to it (Katrina, earthquake, tornado) do they not qualify for a FEMA trailer because they only have a green card and not citizenship papers yet? If a terrorist bombs a building, do we get only the American citizens out and leave the green card holders inside to die? If some idiot takes a school hostage do we only get the children of natural born and naturalized citizens out and leave the children of green-card holders to be shot? On 9-11, do you think those first responders at the Twin Towers were going to get the US citizens out and then go back in for green card holders and visiting foreign business travelers who aren't citizens out?

And how would you know? How would you be able to tell who was a citizen and who was not unless they wore some type of ID pinned to their clothing that marked them as different?

It's been a while since the "Let's Blame it on the Mexican" crowd's been around. Let's start with some pesky facts. These numbers are taken from the CBO, DOL, USC's, and peer reviewed tax attorney journals...

• Roughly 8 million of the 11 million "illegals" file taxes. And, come to think of it, if paying taxes is such a big deal, why aren't you all consistently moaning about all the "legal" citizens who cheat on theirs every year?
• To deport one person costs $12,500, deporting every "illegal" would be more than the entire budget allocated to HLS.
• 1996 Welfare Reform disqualified undocumented people from any type of means tested assistance. That means Medicaid, food stamps, monthly cash... They can only collect for their legal citizen children and the amount given is only for the number of legal children. Which is a piddlesquat amount that they would be taking from you anyway, it would just be going to something not as noble as feeding innocent, hungry children. And remember number one, they pay into the taxes that fund these programs also.
• The IRS assigns ITIN numbers to all workers regardless of their immigration status, ensuring that they pay into Social Security. However, undocumented workers use fake SSN'S, ergo they can't collect. We than move that money into earning suspense accounts and use it on citizens.
• It takes roughly eight years to immigrate here legally, and they only allow already established professionals and family members of citizens. It also takes an extraordinary amount of attorney's fees, paperwork fees, and bureaucratic BS which is impossible for indigent people to handle.

It is the height of hypocrisy to demonize someone for being "illegal" and than break the law in how you handle the "illegals". SCOTUS ruled in Plyler v Dough that Constitutional protection is afforded to persons, regardless of immigration status. This means you shell out ...

$12,500(11,000,000) = $137,500,000,000

In order to abide by due process, or we come up with a better solution.

Now, I'll wait for Angelica, or whatever name CIS has her trolling under today, to start ranting and posting out dated Miami Herold Editorials...

Excuse me, but what about American citizens who want to work, who can't find work, even for minimum wage? What about students wanting to attend college, qualified by academic performance, but receive no aid-American citizens cannot go or have to defer college plans to earn this education, while we are supposed to give it away for free to illegals because a child cannot be made responsible for their parent's violations of the law???? If I were to commit a serious crime, would that suddenly put my student at the head of the college financial aid queue? What about senior citizens who have been American citizens by birth or naturalization for decades, who have paid taxes, property taxes, consumer taxes-and to receive any sort of assistance in their retirement years have to be stripped of every single thing that they have achieved over a lifetime and even their dignity to be given crumbs-a fraction of the social spending that is given to the families of illegals when you factor in food stamps, housing assistance, medical coverage? If there is a path to legal citizenship, then that implies that something needs to be earned. One can start by paying their debt to our society. Perhaps the fines should be contingent upon how long they have been here breaking the laws-the longer, the stiffer the fines, because they have profitted illegally for a longer period. I would willingly give citizenship to any who wished to serve this country in the military, and I would even advocate them being allowed to earn the same college benefits as others serving in the military, but to just wave a magic wand to make them instant liberal voting blocks sucks!

The Dream Act isn't dependant on taking it away from others. If you get deferred, you get deferred because you didn't make the cut, not because of an "illegal".

Sue, you have zero factual basis for your paranois. Read the post above yours.

Well said Sarah. Let's wait for the rebuttals (fallacies) that will ultimately never address the solid points you have made.

Sue- Why not reward companies who keep jobs here in the states? Might that not help the unemployed find jobs? 'Sure would.

Sue said:

American citizens cannot go or have to defer college plans to earn this education, while we are supposed to give it away for free to illegals because a child cannot be made responsible for their parent's violations of the law?

The DREAM act--at least, the version passed in my state--does not make college 'free' for 'illegals'. What it does is give us the chance to pay instate-tuition rates (a god on close to where i live charges $8000 for in-state students as opposed to $24,000 for out of state residents. It also makes graduation from an in-state High School MANDATORY, no GED's, includes a requirement that we go to 1 year of community college first before going on to a University, makes the parents of the child applying PROVE they have been living in the state for at least 3 years prior to application, and makes showing the parents have paid taxes for at last 3 years mandatory. It also makes the child promise to file for citizenship as soon as they are legally able to do so, and requires the college to follow up with that student on that date and help them fill out that form.

would you agree that the lawbreaking decision-makaing parents should be deported tout de suite? After all, the bank robber must suffer the consequences, to use your analogy. Do you agree with this?

They should be punished, but deportation doesn't have to be the punishment. Fines, etc. can be. Deportation of all of them wouldn't be practical and would be extremely costly. Taking law enforcement away from chasing drug dealers and violent criminals so that can focus on getting field laborers and housekeepers would not make us safer. It's funny that conservatives seem to be against regulation in all cases except for voting and immigration. Two things that have made us the strong country we are.

It's time to deregulate the immigration process, otherwise US companies will continue to leave our country to get back the cheap labor that they had here.

Amanda-2017567 said "Then USCIS is going to have to step up and not take 16 years to process residency applications. They're also going to have to make it a little more affordable. Currently, from application for a visa to a permanent residency application, it takes one person from Mexico an entire year's worth of income to afford just the filing fees--and then it takes USCIS forever to process (one AP article stated that in 2010, USCIS was just getting to applications filed in 1995.)"

Then let's increase the staff at the USCIS to make progress on the applications. I have no issue with this one. I have a friend who is in this country illegally. He is taking all the necessary steps to become and American Citizen. He has a job, pays his bills, doesn't break the law, carries insurance, you name it.

What I question, is why should it be cheaper? If an illegal wants to be here legally, then whatever it costs the US Taxpayer to process their application is exactly what it should cost the person requesting US Citizenship. Why should I pay for illegal immigrants to become a US Citizen? I am 5th generation American. My relatives came here in the late 1700's. They did NOT expect anyone here to pay their way to become an American Citizen. They did it themselves. They refused a handout and did not get assistance from the Government, and they did it LEGALLY.

What if the child of a green card holder is on a school bus when it falls off a bridge? Do we not pull that child out of the bus and give that child medical attention because they only have a green card and not naturalization papers yet? If they settle in an area that has a disaster happen to it (Katrina, earthquake, tornado) do they not qualify for a FEMA trailer because they only have a green card and not citizenship papers yet? If a terrorist bombs a building, do we get only the American citizens out and leave the green card holders inside to die? If some idiot takes a school hostage do we only get the children of natural born and naturalized citizens out and leave the children of green-card holders to be shot?

If someone has a green card, then..... arent they here legally? Last time I checked, if someone applies for a green card, they are following the legal steps to first be in the United States. That's a lot different than someone who is here illegally, has no green card whatsoever. Those are the people that I am talking about here.

On 9-11, do you think those first responders at the Twin Towers were going to get the US citizens out and then go back in for green card holders and visiting foreign business travelers who aren't citizens out?

I find your reference to 911 here completely sick and unorthodox. If a terrorist attacks this country, of course our responders are going to apply care to those individuals regardless of where they are from. Its part of our humanity and its part of the oath of our doctors, nurses, etc.

And how would you know? How would you be able to tell who was a citizen and who was not unless they wore some type of ID pinned to their clothing that marked them as different?

Well i don't konw about you, but I have a drivers license and birth certificate that prooves I am an American Citizen. I carry one in my drivers license. If I get pulled over by the police, I think they ask for it right?

Let's really talk here for a moment. I am 40 years old, I have a good job, pay my taxes, am a good citizen, and a registered democrat. I moved to Texas in the fall of 2011. I have considered getting another degree, but was informed that I had to live here for 1 full year to claim in state tuition. However, an illegal immigrant can get in state tuition at anytime. Isn't that discrimination towards me as an American Citizen? I find it UNEHTICAL and wrong that an American Citizen or any individual who is here legally, is discriminated in this fashion.

I could go on and on.... I have no issue with anyone who wants to become an American Citizenship the legal way, but I refuse to have my tax dollars be spent on someone who is here illegally and has not even taken the steps to become legal.

ItsAboutTime said:

What I question, is why should it be cheaper? If an illegal wants to be here legally, then whatever it costs the US Taxpayer to process their application is exactly what it should cost the person requesting US Citizenship.

Currently it's costing the person requesting citizenship between $5k and $10k pr person, start to finish. As to what it costs the taxpayers, we don't know because DHS hasn't allowed an audit of their paperwork policies and procedures, there are no current verifiable facts on how much of DHS's $89billion budget request goes to ICE (out of the other 187 government agencies that have been quietly transferred to DHS control over the last few years) and no idea of how much a paperwork processor for ICE makes per hour.

Now, if you want a cost comparison that I CAN personally verify for you--I have a naturalization certificate. I recently asked USCIS for a certified copy of this document, which they already have on file. (for the record it is a sheet of green 8 1/2 x11 paper with the pledge of Allegiance printed on it and my photo stapled to it along with the date I took the Oath of Allegiance.) I was informed to fill out the application and submit a filing fee of $600 and I would get it in 3 years.

Personally I think it's a grossly inflated cost just to get a copy of a document they already have.

ItsAboutime said:

If someone has a green card, then..... arent they here legally? Last time I checked, if someone applies for a green card, they are following the legal steps to first be in the United States. That's a lot different than someone who is here illegally, has no green card whatsoever. Those are the people that I am talking about here.

My apologies. In your post you said, They do not qualify for any social programs or government assistance until such time as they become and American Citizen either. Holding a green card or permanent resident card or a student visa/business travel visa/passports does not make one a citizen, therefore I understood your post to man these people would receive 'no government assistance'. Please clarify next time.

ItsAboutTime said:

Well i don't konw about you, but I have a drivers license and birth certificate that prooves I am an American Citizen. I carry one in my drivers license.

Your DL, BC, and SS card are not proof of citizenship. I had all of that legally and I was still 'illegal'.

At the time I was incarcerated by ICE for being 'illegal' I had a drivers license, legal social security card, and a birth certificate issued with Dad and Mom'name on it. I did not know until after they had detained me that I was adopted; not a single piece of paperwork I had used for 18 years of my life had ever indicated that my parents were not my parents, my home was not my home, my birthday was not my birthday, and my name was not my name.

It is customary that once a child is adopted, either foreign/international or domestic, the birth certificate is issued with the adoptive parents name on it and it is legally recognized as a legal birth record. So while I had a legal birth certificate, officially filed within a US courthouse, and Dad and Mom would have HAD to have the adoption decree in order to get the birth certificate, it stands to reason that having the birth certificate would also serve as proof that an adoption record existed. However, since ICE had lost my adoption record, they decided that made me illegal and scheduled me for deportation.

To where, I don't know; I have no original birth certificate showing who I was born to, where I was born, what my name was when I was born, and when I was born. I was what is officially classified as 'stateless'. The country in which the orphanage was that I was adopted from refused to recognize me since I had nothing that shows I was actually from there; since that country views girls as 'worthless' no attempt was even made to track down any documentation for a girl infant abandoned on an orphanage doorstep.

If I get pulled over by the police, I think they ask for it right?

They'll ask, doesn't mean they'll accept it as proof. There are lots of stories out there of people being detained/deported even after they provide proof that they are who they say they are:

Ernesto Galarza, a New Jersey-born U.S. citizen of Puerto Rican descent who was held illegally for three days in the Lehigh County Prison. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents ordered his detention, erroneously believing he was an undocumented immigrant from the Dominican Republic. Galarza’s Social Security card and Pennsylvania driver’s license were in his wallet at the time of his arrest and in the prison’s possession during his detention. Galarza was not told why he was being held for nearly three days. “I was shocked and upset that they assumed I am an immigrant. No one bothered to check or ask me about it. It’s clear that they only reason they decided I’m Dominican is because I’m Latino,” said Galarza. “I was born in New Jersey, and I’m a proud American. This isn’t how Americans should be treated. It’s like getting slapped in the face.

And this;

Houston chef Leonard Robert Parrish, 52, ran afoul of a law intended for illegal immigrants.The Brooklyn-born Parrish went down to the Harris County Sheriff's Office in September to clear up a problem over a couple of bounced checks. He wound up in jail on immigration charges. He was strip-searched and spent 12 hours in custody."The deputy told me I had a foreign accent," Parrish recalled. "I told him I had an East Coast accent. He said, 'It sounds like a foreign accent to me.'" A 2008 Texas law required a person's citizenship status be linked to his driver's license. A sheriff's deputy told Parrish he was detained because when they ran his driver's license information through their computer, it said that his citizenship status was 'unknown.'"I served on a murder jury in Texas and they can't find out I'm a citizen?" asked Parrish. "I'm still fighting.... Nobody wants to take responsibility for locking me up for no reason."

Mr. George Ibarra, 46, was born in Mexico but was raised since infancy in Arizona. In his late 20s he enlisted in the Marines and served three years on active duty, including time in Iraq, before being honorably discharged. On February 23, 2011 Department of Justice adjudicator Richard Phelps ruled in Eloy, Arizona that George Ibarra had by a preponderance of the evidence proven that he is indeed a citizen of the United States. Rather than apologize to Mr. Ibarra for previously wrongfully detaining him, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is holding Mr. Ibarra in solitary confinement at the Eloy Detention Center, in clear violation of the U.S. Constitution and a memorandum requiring Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to release anyone with "probative evidence" of U.S. citizenship.

Sarah (1.24 and your other too-numerous-to-reference dishonest posts)---

Your lies are conspicuous and despicable. I work in private practice under strict deadlines , obligations, and time-constraints; otherwise, I might have seen your posts--- replete with demonstrably false statements--- earlier today. It is evident that you lack of any substantive support for your anti-borders, pro-ILLEGAL immigration agenda, and thus, you have nothing else to rely upon but to resort to your numerous blatant false assertions and false accusations in your posts. I won’t post the Miami Herald story today--- clearly you’ve seen it before and, to this very date, you are incapable of refuting it on substance. Your support your false assertions through your low-life name-calling strategy. Plainly,
I have nothing whatsoever to do with CIS (perhaps I will one day). I did, however, drop my over 10 year ACLU membership in light of that group's alignment with the pro-immigration-lawbreaking agenda that you champion. Nonetheless, you just continue to perpetuate the myth that it’s only the right-wing fringe that seeks enforcement of our immigration laws! You cannot stand it because I am a
Democrat and an ’08 Obama voter (probably not for 2012). You have nothing else, so you resort to lies
and name-calling.

Also, everyone can see that ---YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT MENTIONED NATIONALITY in your despicable reference to “Mexican”. You seem hell-bent on equating ILLEGAL with "Mexican", as you state. YOU made that reference--- not anyone else. However, the reality is that ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS are comprised of many nationalities, not just Mexican.

Secondly, the fact that ILLEGALS cost us FAR MORE than they ever pay in taxes is underscored in your very reference to “the attorney’s fees, paper work . . . [in order to immigrate legally] which is impossible for indigent people to handle”. MOST of the ILLEGALS are Indigent, as you state, and they cannot afford to support themselves. When they arrive, most (not all) have no education so they resort to low paying jobs with no benefits, and the American taxpayers are being forced to subsidize their healthcare and other social welfare services consumed by the ILLEGAL employees of the lawbreaking business profiteers. Further, as you well know, many ILLEGALS do not pay taxes. For those who do--- you failed to acknowledge the $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits sent to ILLEGALS by the IRS in as per the Washington Post. Just because a person files taxes ---DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY PAY TAXES--- YOU IGNORAMOUS! Further, the notion that we must continue to accept the ILLEGAL importation of poverty (to use your word “indigent people”) into the United States is clear evidence of just how mind-blowingly improper, inane, and bizarre your posts are!

No matter how much you continue to reiterate your FALSE and INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST REFRAINS---- NO PERSON OF CHARACTER AND INTELLIGENCE WILL EVER BUY INTO YOUR FALSE REPRSENTATIONS THAT ENFORCEMENT OF OUR LAWS AND/OR EXPOSING the true costs of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
would be equivalent to “demoniz[ing]” anyone. That’s just another of your cheap ploys-- and I mean low-brow, tacky, and transparent to all but apparently you!

What did I lie about, Angelica? I see a lot of personal attacks, but no cites or sources that discredit a single fact I posted. Where's that Miami Harold Editorial you're so fond of???

• Roughly 8 million of the 11 million "illegals" file taxes. And, come to think of it, if paying taxes is such a big deal, why aren't you all consistently moaning about all the "legal" citizens who cheat on theirs every year?

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• To deport one person costs $12,500, deporting every "illegal" would be more than the entire budget allocated to HLS.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• 1996 Welfare Reform disqualified undocumented people from any type of means tested assistance. That means Medicaid, food stamps, monthly cash... They can only collect for their legal citizen children and the amount given is only for the number of legal children. Which is a piddlesquat amount that they would be taking from you anyway, it would just be going to something not as noble as feeding innocent, hungry children. And remember number one, they pay into the taxes that fund these programs also.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• The IRS assigns ITIN numbers to all workers regardless of their immigration status, ensuring that they pay into Social Security. However, undocumented workers use fake SSN'S, ergo they can't collect. We than move that money into earning suspense accounts and use it on citizens.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

• It takes roughly eight years to immigrate here legally, and they only allow already established professionals and family members of citizens. It also takes an extraordinary amount of attorney's fees, paperwork fees, and bureaucratic BS which is impossible for indigent people to handle.

Now find me a source that proves this false, if you're asserting that it is.

You took a page right out of Karl Rove's conservative playbook, didn't you??? Claim to be "one" of them to give yourself creditability. Convince them to go do the labor intensive research. And than, when all else fails dehumanize and go for the juggular. I feel like a need a shower after reading your tripe.

You really need to chill out, I'm not that important, nor am I worth such a vitriolic hatred. Really, I'm not. You know, as a social worker, I've noticed that the stronger and more vociferous the response, the more people are hiding something and the closer I am to the truth.

And "tacky", really??? Now that just hurts.

Uh no, that's more like, your parents robbed the bank, they're going to jail but you kids get to keep the money they stole.

Actually they have to earn it under the DREAM Act, you know like join the military. Not easy.

All you had to do was be born here. Not hard.

why do you always call him willard?

Donna? Williard? Who needs the med's?

Willard is his real name. Willard is also a messican. his dad wuz an anker baby.

Willard Mitt Romney. I would hardly call him a Mexican, his father was the only one of his family members born in Mexico, his paternal grand parents were both American citizens. And why would it matter if he was Mexican?

I guess in Progressive eyes he is an Illegal Immi....,I mean Undocumented Demo...,I mean an poor oppressed minority that made good!! PLEASE DON'T DEPORT HIM!!!. Romney hasn't commited any crime other being the son of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!

I demand to see his long form birth certificate... with a seal....

And I will determine whether or not that the long form birth certificate he shows me is truly long form or if the seal on that certificate is truly a seal.

And I will cling to my belief in the face of all evidence, logic, and rational explanations to the contrary because holy sh($ otherwise a 1/2 black dude, with a foreign sounding name, really is President and my race and creed is no longer special, ergo I will poop my pants.

yeah. you wouldn't want to hear both sides and make an informed decision. It is better to just follow blindly.

no Leroy, it's best to have an open mind about this one and not a closed "its my way or the highway" republicant stance.

Kind of sad.....they get to enjoy the milk and honey and when it dries up they go home and we get to clean up the mess. And if we successfully clean up the mess, they will be back in droves unless our immigration policy is cleared and understood and enforced. Nobody is talking about the toll on our economy when those illegal immigrant earnings are sent back to the homeland and not at all circulated within our economy.

Casca your comment is extremely boring, blah blah blah perhaps a little independent thought might create too much light in your brain, you show how much our education system has fallen. Perhaps some original thoughts not scripted by the right wing would help what must be a very upset tummy.

Casca said:

ONLY U.S. VOTERS CAN SAVE JOBS FOR THEMSELVES AND THE 22 MILLION CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENTS WITH “Green Cards.”

You know, at last count I think the US census said that there were 312 million people in the US. I sincerely doubt that there are 290 million illegals in the country.

As regards our educational system....the burden of being forced to hold back English speaking students for students who are not functional in the English language probably has a large impact. Expecting our students to learn foreign language is a wonderful goal in an increasingly global economy, but that is not what is happening. We are expending huges sums of educational dollars to bring foreign speaking student to minimum functioning levels. In the meantime, the other students have resources drawn away from moving them forward to be competitive with students in other nations. Our educational system has become a welfare referral network and largely about crowd control and babysitting rather than education. We are not allowed to examine poor performance by either students or teachers as that is somehow prejudicial. How do you explain students who do perform well, even in the poorer schools and districts? I have spoken to teachers and administrators who indicate that the student's lack of proficiency in English is only the tip of the iceberg. When parents/guardians and other family members cannot or will not speak English, the efforts to get these children up to speed is made nearly impossible. When teachers, counselors, and school administration cannot communicate with the responsible adults, very little by way of home support can be expected. Studies show that home support and parental involvement are key elements in educational success.

Obama will work with anyone...who wants to help him pass his agenda's.

Don't forget Obama and the Republicans voted together for the Free Trade Act. The Democrats voted against Obama on this one....or, from a different perspective, maybe Obama voted against the Democrats. What's important to Obama is Obama's agenda.

It is apparent that many miss the fact that the POTUS has an agenda and will only work with those who will benefit his agenda. States that attempt to protect themselves are 'misguided'...which is what he said to the President of Mexico about Arizona.

The President of Mexico doesn't stand for HIS people being treated poorly in the United States and our POTUS agrees with him.

The President of Mexico doesn't stand for HIS people being treated poorly in the United States and our POTUS agrees with him.

The question I have, is why doesn't the President of Mexico welcome all HIS people back home?

I am so sick of the "States Rights" bull. Do the states have certain areas where governance is best left it their hands??? Yes, but it case you forgot, your state is one of many which are UNITED. When people cry "states rights" they sound like petulent children, boasting to their parents, "You're not the boss of me!" Well yes, the federal government is, like it or not, the boss of the states.

This argument is simply code for, "I don't want you telling me I can enact discriminatory legislation." That 10th Amendment you all hold up and shout over was written before the Bill of Rights applied to the states. The 14th Amendment basically made it moot, and an issue pertaining to it hasn't come before SCOTUS since the '60's when they tried to argue that it made segregation legal.

We tried the Articles of Confederation... They didn't work. We fought a war... The "states rights" folks lost. And furthermore, what it's okay for the government to infringe on your liberty as long as it's a state government???

Get. Over. It.

I love socialist reasoning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when socialists want to ignore the will of the people, power grab, deny rights and liberties they always say the same thing.

There cannot be ANY "states rights" that super-cede the right of their marxist messiah to steal power. Perhaps you should read the Constitution sometimes, it is clear on the subject.

The Constitution is "outdated" and needs to be "revised", meaning they want to deny citizens their rights, seize wealth, property, guns and deny free speech to all who oppose or offend them. God forbid we limit these rights to American citizens,,,,,criminals who invade our nation and steal it's wealth are always welcomed if they kick-back a few votes, right?

When tasked to abide the law of the land, balance a budget, defend our borders, govern without corruption,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they always fail because they are corrupt and morally bankrupt.

Actually, we live in a Republic, which means the "will of the people" doesn't mean jack all in regards to civil/constitutional rights. That's why, regardless of how many people think you're posts are moronic, and would vote to shut you up, we can't.

The Constitution made it clear??? Really? Yes it did. It made it stunningly clear in the Supremacy Clause that when state law is in conflict with federal law, federal law wins. It also made it stunning clear in the 14th Amendment that equal protection was to be applied to all persons.

And how exactly am I a socialist?

It is quite entertaining to read posts by people who think only in black and white and base everything upon words written in the past to resolve present issues.

The federal government has failed miserably at protecting our boarders and maintaining the rights of our citizens to live peacefully in the boarder states. Obviously, that is acceptable to those who state we must abide by the words written long ago.

It is not acceptable to wantonly break laws in this nation...unless you have crossed our boarders illegally. Vote for 'me'...I'll look the other way.

We just want all 20 million illegals out of our country. Do you have a problem with people who break our laws then expect sanctuary?

Affinity1,

Republicans are more than happy to help minorities. But it would make it a lot easier for Republicans to help them if these minorities would quit violating our laws first.

Affinity...I suggest you look up the stats on who donates more to charities.

Felons for freedom,,,,,viva la revolution!!!!!

The only thing todays democrat/marxist hates is an American with a job and something left in his savings account.

We just want all 20 million illegals out of our country.

First, it's more like 11 million. Second, how do you propose we pay the $137,500,000,000 tab (that's $12,500/deportation multiplied by 11 million) deporting them all would cost, if Republicans don't want to raise taxes???

Unless of course you want to just round them up and drop them over the border. Than how do you explain demonizing them for being "illegal" while breaking the law in how you handle their "illegality"?

How to you propose we pay the tab for keeping them on welfare???

Do "the rich" have to foot the bill for criminal invaders as well. Punish them for success, punish them for providing jobs and punish them for the criminal acts of others and reward failure to lead of the current administration,,,right?

11,000,000 parasites on welfare, in public schools without paying a dime in taxes, flooding hospitals, packing jails, on every school breakfast,lunch and dinner program, in public housing, requiring legal aid lawyers and God knows what,,,,,,,,,,,,EVERY month!

Figure $1000-1250.00 per month per criminal, 11,000,000 criminals, $138,000,000,000.00 or a TRILLION a year.

Sometimes it is cheaper to do the right thing and abide our nation's laws, defend it's borders and protect it's citizens.

How to you propose we pay the tab for keeping them on welfare???

Actually, 1996 Welfare Reform disqualified undocumented people from any means tested assistance, and according to the CBO and DOL, on average, about 8 million out of that 11 million "illegals" file personal income taxes.

11,000,000 parasites on welfare, in public schools without paying a dime in taxes, flooding hospitals, packing jails, on every school breakfast,lunch and dinner program, in public housing, requiring legal aid lawyers and God knows what,,,,,,,,,,,,EVERY month!

Just like a lot of other people in this country. Do you really think, your taxes would go down??? They'd still take it from you, they'd just use it to bomb children instead of feeding them. And why aren't you in an uproar at all the citizens who cheat on their taxes, or take advantage of a ridiculously ill written code?

Figure $1000-1250.00 per month per criminal, 11,000,000 criminals, $138,000,000,000.00 or a TRILLION a year.

Where'd you get that $1000? I'm guessing you pulled it out of your arse.

Sometimes it is cheaper to do the right thing and abide our nation's laws, defend it's borders and protect it's citizens.

And sometimes it's cheaper, more logical, more beneficial, and a better investment to fix a situation instead of spewing ignorant hatred to make yourself feel better.

And the law is still the law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they still illegally entered our country. It is not hatred to love you own nation, except to a democrat/marxist.

With no excuses for criminal behavior and an unexplained love of criminals, willing to say or do anything to justify criminal behavior,,,,democrats always resort to name calling and hate mongering.

We spend $2 billion dollars a year locking up illegal alien criminals in this country for rape, murders, drug trafficking, robbery and various other serious crimes as a minimum. 90% from south of the border.

You might love them and feel they have every right to invade another country and run wild,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do not.

Read about your wonderful friends sometime,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf

According to the FBI, 12 Americans are murdered EVERY DAY by your criminal invader buddies,,,,,,,,,,,,perhaps you should call their families and tell them how the criminal had every right to illegally enter our nation and murder their loved one?

And the law is still the law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Okay, that's fine if you think that, but than you advocate spending hundreds of billions of dollars. Where will we get that money?

democrats always resort to name calling and hate mongering.

Oh, and I thought you were a Republican. I mean, seeing as you've been calling me names, i.e. socialist, marxist...

You do realize that the study you posted doesn't look at criminality amongst the entire population. It doesn't even look at in amongst the entire population of undocumented workers. It only focuses on those already in trouble. I can do one like that on white guys and make you all look bad too.

Out of context much???

That is just not true. I'm sorry the facts don't match with what you want to believe, but that doesn't give you the right to make things up.

Since it's Republicans (not Democrats) that actually pay for minorities I think it's about time to cut the losses and move on to investments that will make sense and turn a profit. How much longer do we invest into a failed society?

If you Democrats want to continue helping feel free to pay for it from your own taxes... oh wait, you don't pay taxes...:)

Kingsfan, take the time to read the comments on a variety of threads. I stand by what I said.

Kingfish

Just read some of Feisty Redheads comments you will get an eyeful.

Wow, I am not the only one who notices that. Thank you! I find it ironic that the people classifying things as hateful, bigotted, racist are the ones fermenting the notion that there is somebody out there spending all their time and energy trying to rip us off, oppress us, and unless they are talking about our government, I am not at all sure who they might be referring to.

It's the norm these days to understand that bigotry is wrong. However, the fear and self confidence issues that make people bigots, are still very prevalent. So, in order to maintain their defense mechanism and egos, which is most easily done through bigotry, those who are intolerant demonize those that call them out on their intolerance.

The bigots have effectively made a taboo out of calling someone a bigot. So now, yes it may be uncomfortable for one to be seen as intolerant, but it also may be uncomfortable for someone to point that intolerance out.

I, howeve, have no problem doing so, hang with me here... The difference that makes the Juan Williams lady a bigot, and the people who call the lady a bigot, not a bigot is the BUT FOR test. But for the comment one makes, we would have no problem with one. It is the comment, not he/she we have the issue with.

Conservatives have problems with gay people, liberals have problems with their problems. Do they call names? Yes, so does everyone sometimes. It's wrong for all, but look at things in context. Now, I'm using gays as an example because they seem to be the most hated. Personal disclaimers don't excuse obviously prejudice statements. Things like "I have no problem with gays, but..." Doesn't make it true that you have no problem with gays, it makes it true that you don't want to appear to have a problem with gays. And calling you out on that doesn't make us bigots, it makes us in disagreement and it makes us impassive (not intolerant) in the face of something we don't believe is right. Don't confuse tolerance with passivity.

Find me a liberal who calls someone an abomination for simply being gay, when it has no effect in their life. Find me a liberal who calls someone "illegal" when their parents dragged them over the border when they were two, and they had no say. If being a liberal in your minds equates to being bigotted towards bigotted beliefs, well I guess you got me. I have no problem being bigotted against bigots.

Afterall, you don't have to jump off the Empire State Building to know it's gonna hurt when you land. Somethings are just obvious, and when they are, what better way to discourage the honest people from calling out the intolerant, than by making honesty itself the demon.

Your right! We could be completely Socialist and broke by the end of Obama's term in office. Then, we could be like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc. Guess what, when a country goes broke - all benefits are cut because the country can no longer afford to give it to you.

A great speech from a great president. If we can get the Party of No out of the way we can really get some things done in this country!

That is just not true. I'm sorry the facts don't match with what you want to believe, but that doesn't give you the right to make things up.

Time,

I hear this "socialist" thing a lot from people. Mostly they use it pertaining to Obama. Can you please explain your position that he's a socialist? I'm just interested in hearing the actual argument for this stance, not just the assertion.

The Federal Government has failed to do its job for over 25 years and now we have people who have grown up here as criminals. Its time for the Federal Government to enforce the law. Deport all illegal aliens, secure the border and fine anyone who hires an illegal. That is the law.

I have read again and again the commentaries comparing our immigration with that of say, our neighbor, "Mexico" The Mexican government will not tolerate any of the things that the American people are upset about. To aid and abet an illegal in Mexico will get a citizen the same harsh treatment as the illegal. Why is it, then, that we feel it is necessary for us to creep around sheepishly, bow and scrape, when the issue of removing those who have no legal right to be here is discussed? No other foreign power offers the array of benefits to foreigns-even those that are documented and legally within the country. Why should be feel badly for wanting the same level of protection from our government that other nationals enjoy from theirs?

You don't have to promise me an immediate balanced budget, but how about the necessary spending cuts-real cuts, not pennies on the dollars. What about not borrowing any more and trying to make the budget fit within our real means, just like American families are having to do. We won't have all the nice things, and we may even give up some of what we have come to view as necessities, but we cannot continue the way things are.

it is heroes like this poster who cuts and pastes this stuff in every site on the internet is why we will win the war against the invaders from messico. I am glad that there are people with no lives who can post the truth about the illeagles.

At least there is an attempt to provide some factual information as opposed to bitter editorial. Those people visiting this thread have the opportunity to read the material and make judgement for themselves instead of being browbeaten by opinions colored with hateful curses, name calling, and generally, playground bullying tactics.

Yep, cuz we all know that robbin' a bank is just the same as having yer parents bring you over when you were too young to have a say on where you were movin' to.

So let the child remain as a ward of their native born nation. Let them be reared as an American with full respect for what that means, understanding of the privelege and yes, the responsibility that citizenship entails. It would be cheaper for our government to raise the child, then to have to subsidize the entire extended family.

There is a certain truth to that-although the payment might be slow or partial, it will be a payment, and the citizen with nothing and no insurance....well, the hospital cannot get blood out of a turnip.

I have asked, with all respect, for somebody to define what Middle Class actually means in these discussions. Is it purely economic? Is it determined about where you live? How much you earn? The types of jobs you do? I really think that discussion would be more productive and less hostile if we were all working with the same definitions.