God, I am so sick of this bulls**t. Who does he think he's fooling?

But I think he got the last part right.

2012 must be the year we prove the doubters wrong. The year we strike out boldly

I do predict they will "strike out" boldly.

Me, too. IR needs to bring the back hoe.

Fiesty deadhead, you are going to very disappointed in November.

A lot of nerve the radical Conservatives have to claim belief at the American Dream while every effort they make is to help the wealthiest among us destroy that dream for everyone else.

Hey Feisty when the debates come between Obama and the Republican nominee, wanna watch them with me, this 1 percenter will buy all the popcorn for you 99% losers. LOL Feisty your a joke.

Pack it in Republicans, you were just owned. That was the best SOTU address i've ever seen.

Funny but did you notice when you flush a toilet, it swirls to LEFT and down the sewer! Thats where obama and his left radial agenda is taking us.

Funny but did you notice when you flush a toilet, it swirls to LEFT and down the sewer! Thats where obama and his left radial agenda is taking us

Whoa - someone with clearly too much time on his hands... lol

Nicky - you might try reading something for a change, rather than watching your turds float in a punch bowl darling....

Hey Cliff, deal. I wanna see you choke on that popcorn when your guy gets owned. None of the clowns left have a chance and you know it. Quit kidding yourselves.

John B, You really believe that crap you said? Unemployment and opportunity was at its best after the republicans reformed in mid 90's. You think the dems' spending is finally going to accomplish something? Do not be the fool much longer. Wake up. You personally can not run up debt, your city can not run up debt, your State can not run up debt, and this fool Democrat government can not run up debt like it has in the past 3 years to show nothing and expect a promised land.

Finance principles are basic and the economy of the USA is no exception. Trim the fat spenders, give incentives to those that invest in the country such as create jobs, expand operations within, lower taxes to big companies if they can repatriate the incomes made overseas and invest here, and this country will thrive again. HOWEVER, never by the means used these past 3 years. It is a recipe for disaster.

I teach this at 3 colleges and it is sound finance and personal financial planning. What you have witnessed the past 3 years by the democratic party is foolish economic dribble with no finance basis. So, what is it now, 12 trillion dollars in 3 years? And you wish to blame the republicans ... ha,ha, ha ... you turnip!! Wake up and stop talking politics.

Funny but did you notice when you flush a toilet, it swirls to LEFT and down the sewer! Thats where obama and his left radial agenda is taking us

If there's one thing you can count on, it's that almost anything spouted by the Radical Right will be bunkem of the most easily disproven sort. http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp

Greg, effective tax rates are at their lowest level in 60 years. The wealthy elites pay an effective tax rate 30% lower than that of the middle class...yet we still had the worst collapse in almost 80 years. Why is that, oh great teacher?

Greg. I would be surprised if any of your students find too much to agree with you on solutions to our problems.It is American companies that have outsourced our jobs.It is our financial institutions that have encouraged lenders to lend to those who can't pay balloon mortgages to borrow those types of mortgages and then buy against them and now to want to pay incentives to those companies to return jobs back to the U.S. and have no comments on the Reps. who are willing to smash this country to defeat a Negro President who is trying to restore this country in spite of a racial right wing .They have openly stated that their first, I repeat their first priority is to defeat our democratically elected President,who can't get his programs passed by this coalition of Republican and right wing tea-party poor excuses for a political party.

You had the collapse because of the fool Clinton who signed in the deregulation of the financial industry and did not properly regulate the deregulation. Plain and simple. End of 90's all of a sudden insurance companies, banks and investment firms all had the ability to do each other's jobs. That I have said ever since it was proposed was a disaster waiting to happen. Those who know me know I have preached that.

securitizing mortgages, and giving the people what they want without earning it. Everyone and their brother can have a home, give incentives to the banks to give the poor and low income a home. Rediculous. american dream is not the American entitlement and THAT is exactly where this collapse was created.

Final lesson. In 2008 the banking, mortgage, and real estate industries as well as some supporting industries should have taken a plunge and the big should have eaten up the weak. NOT the whole marketplace. That was because of trading changes in the markets that permit investors on selling short (selling company stock they do not own). It caused all industries to be at risk. Also, if I said a tiny fraction of what the fool tv personalities said I would have lost my licenses and teaching career. They helped panic the public who was not investment savy. Forcing more short selling for the collapse.

Deregulation does not necessarily mean less regulation it simply means opening the marketplace and abilities of the players. Do so with little regulations to control the new ways and you have the collapse you saw.

As for your tax concerns, JFK said you need to lower tax rates to encourage investment within the marketplace. Why would anyone invest their money if a mojority of it will go to someone else if you profit. He started it when the high rate was 70%. Republicans have been pushing the lower rates but also tempering them with elimination of many tax loopholes. That is sound thought. Puts all on the same playing field. Poor and lower income should not pay a tax rate and typically do not. Middleclass simply needs to wake up to all the tax incentives along the way and do things like the rich. If you wish another lesson on private pensions for all let me know.

You mean it had nothing to do with Gramm, Leach, and Bliley, the three Republicans who wrote that legislation, or Alan Greenspan, the Republican who testified before Congress that failure to sign the legislation would cripple the economy?

I'm middle class, but I'm willing to do things like the rich...where do I find an employer who'll pay me in low-tax stock options and provide me with a golden parachute so I can get rich when my job is eliminated?

Hello Listoire,

Outsource jobs? Ask 100 people why they do it and they think cheaper labor. That is probably 10% of the equation. If a company wishes to use another country's natural resources like minerals most countires will permit ONLY if the company establishes a regional operation in the country. If the USA company wishes to grow globally how do you think they can compete in Europe with 40% tarriffs added to the price of high labor cost products we make? They need a regional headquarters or operation, not just a sales office in the Euroopean Community to avoid the tarriffs.

Next, ask your tax people why these US companies do not repatriate income from overseas for local USA investment ... USA taxes is why. Other countries we see as our competitors do not tax or have extremely low repatriation of income taxes on companies.

WAKE UP. There is far more to what your political heroes tell you to think. Have the government lower repatriation of earnings taxes and watch the jobs build in USA ... NOT return, forget that thought, build on the exisiting. If you are holding out for outsourced jobs to return you are playing a fools game. Multinational Companies can leave the USA justl ike you see companies within the USA moving to different cities ... incentives by cities and states ... you see that all the time with cities bidding on bringing in some big company for 20,000 new jobs in the area. Well, they left from somewhere taxing and non cooperative.

never said it had nothing to do with those in Congress and Greenspan. Only mentioned it was given the blessing of Bill Clinton. still horrible legislation and poor follow up by our government. Proper followup and regulation would have curbed it. Never happened. SEC also dropped the ball big time.

Fair enough at 1.16, Greg, fair enough.

Okay, I for one, need to know exactly how you people are describing middle class. What makes up the definition of what it means to be middle class? Why are we constantly hearing about the middle class getting screwed and what are they getting screwed out of....I contend that we have a nation of those who work and those who do not. Those who work carry an ever increasing load for those who do not, and it has erroded the ability of working people to build for the future, take care of families, prepare for retirement etc. Before we continue the blame game and continually saying how the Republicans screwed this group or the Democrats screwed that group, we really need to define how we are classifying the groups that are supposedly being downtrodden....Class warfare is sick, divisive and benefits nobody at all; however, to wage continual class warfare and not even define who is being put upon is even worse. You are all arguing without agreeing on the terms of the argument.

John B, can you provide the data that the wealthy pay less effective tax than the middle class? Since the middle class pay very little if any federal income tax and they get their payroll tax back in the form of their social security retirement, how is that possible? The WSJ provided the data last week showing that if you include only income tax, the wealthy pay virtually all the tax at a very progressive rate. If you include payroll taxes, the wealthy pay double the effective rate as the middle class, so where does your 30% less come from? Can you provide the data?

Sue, middle class is most commonly defined as the middle 3 quintiles of the population.

Kirk, here are 2 sources:

Getting back to Buffett's op-ed, his claims rest on how these taxes interact with each other. The fact we're checking here is that "the mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes," while middle class taxpayers "fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot."

He's right that a billionaire whose income is mostly from investments is probably taxed at a lower rate than someone who has an ordinary job. Very little of this taxpayer's income is wage income, so payroll taxes don't take much of a bite. It seems likely that much of this hypothetical person's income would be taxed around the 15 percent rate. And, in fact, as Buffett says, statistics from the Internal Revenue Service show that the 400 wealthiest taxpayers pay tax rates of less than 20 percent.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/18/warren-buffett/warren-buffett-says-super-rich-pay-lower-taxes-oth/

Before you start feeling too sorry for the fortunate few, however, check out the sharp drop in their effective tax rate over the past 15 years—down from 30 percent in 1995 to the 18 percent rate in 2008. Compare that with the 24 percent rate paid in 2008 by people with income between $500,000 and $1 million. The rest of us also saw our tax rate drop from a peak of 15.4 percent to 12.4 percent in 2008. But that doesn’t take into account that AGI of the top 400 jumped 277 percent in real terms between 1992 and 2008, compared to a 77 percent increase for everyone else. Adding insult to injury, with so little earnings and so much investment income, the very rich pay a relative pittance in payroll taxes compared to the rest of us.

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/05/12/the-very-rich-really-are-different/

This coming from the Architect of Chicken Georges Distruction of Americas Middle Class!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

I agree it's hard for Republicans to pass anything when all the bills sit on Harrys desk not brought for vote in the senate. Over 1000 days and counting where is that budget bill? Lets see it.

Where are the bills from the House that are truly bipartisian solutions to America's current problems? Let's see them.

You can find them on Harrys desk! Where is the budget bill?

You seem to know all about those bills, Gunsmith, why don't you tell us about them?

The Republican House, with bi-partisan support, have sent 17 jobs bills to the Democratic Senate. Harry Reid has tabled ( read killed ) every one of them. No debate, no vote , just NO. Who is the party of no now? And this President has not sent a budget to the congress for 3 years. First President in History to not have a budget proposal.

National debt in 2008 - 10 trillion. National debt in 2011 - 15 trillion. 50% increase in debt in 3 years.

Price of gas up - 83% in 3 years. Price of beef up 24%. price of clothing up 200% in three years. And anyone thinks Obama has done a good job?

You seem to know all about those bills, Gunsmith, why don't you tell us about them?

The silence is deafening

17? 17? THAT is what has Conservatives so offended? 400 bills passed the last House of Representatives before dying of filibuster blockage in the last Congress. Get over it Dude, life is rough...get a helmet.

The American people are rapidly connecting the dots to discover who are the REAL extremists. Asked by Gallup what effective tax rate the wealthiest 1% of us should pay the consensus answer was 24%. I doubt it's any coincidence that's the same average effective tax rate paid by the middle class.

Meanwhile the GOPTP is pushing an agenda to nearly eliminate ALL income taxes for the richest among us.

The Bible says not to answer a fool in his folly lest you be counted a fool, but I'm feeling foolish, so here goes! Corporations never do the right thing, nor do they ever do the wrong thing - they are organizational constructs - not people! Using Capital Letters does not lend your claim of OVERWHELMING evidence any credibility. And, for now, a question: will you be happy, have found your utopia on earth, when government is in complete control of every facet of your life?

On the contrary, corporations have been given personhood by the corrupt Conservative wing of the Supreme Court, and they are the ultimate Sociopaths. They have no conscience, no scruples not imposed on them by the law, no accountability to anyone but themselves nor anything but profit. They are the ultimate moneychangers in the temple, tools of the Pharisees as they seek to rule over the truly righteous. They are the vine-growers, saying "This is the heir, come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!"

Please do not cut and paste with biblical reference out of context. As for corporate personhood, the reigning court in the land has been pretty well stocked with more liberal viewpoints than conservative due to illness, retirement and the necessary replacement over time. If they allow it to stand as a point of law, then I guess it is as much a liberal perspective as conservative.

Ummm, Sue? The Supreme Court consists of 5 Conservative Justices, 4 Liberal. A lot of things are open to interpretation, but there isn't a circumstance in which 4 is larger than 5.

As for biblical references, how I use my Bible is my business.

Actually he is a major reason for many of the problems we have today. Along with the Republican Congress from 1996 until 2008. But let's not forget ALL the Congresses from approximately 1980 until today for BOTH parties. Because the mess we have today was not caused by one president, or one party. BOTH parties contributed and BOTH parties need to share the blame.

But in reality the real BLAME lies with myself, and you Herb-890692, and every other America who continuously votes the same idiots into office. It was only recently (within the last 2 years) that I actually started researching the candidates and the issues. Amazing what you can learn if you simply take the time. And what this comment forum shows (by the way respectfully not including your comment) is that the majority of Americans do not take the time. The result? The mess we have today.

Yeah, we know

Yes I believe that Bush helped this mess along by not doing anything other than reading to preschoolers. Obama inherited a mess that took years and just a couple of years aren't going to make it go away

What a crock. Where was the " pro-jobs, pro-growth economic policy" for the last 30 years when we had Republican Presidents for 20 of them? And a Republican Congress from 1996 until 2008? And if the Republicans are so " pro-jobs, pro-growth economic policy" where are the jobs they should be producing from their combination of Supply Side Economics, massive deregulation, and 100% support for out of control capitalism. Oh what a surprise, there aren't any.

As for "quarreling and paralyzed, over a Niagara of debt," the FRIGGIN Republicans and Republican presidents produced the majority of it. Starting with that Conservative icon and one of the worst president's ever, Ronald (Deficits don't matter) Reagan.

It is amazing that only when a Democratic president is elected, or a Democratic controlled Congress comes into being do Republicans suddenly become fiscal conservatives.

You might want to Google GDP growth for the years you mention.

Puts Obama's puny growth to shame.

By the way, if interested, Politico is live blogging the speech.

Odd that it isn't being live blogged here.

Think after last year they'll be checking to see how much Obama plagiarizes? Why do I doubt it.

The GDP/Growth was based on massive consumer debt and in the case of Bush an enormous bubble economy. As for Reagan? Massive government spending (that resulted in America going from the worlds largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation in less than 8 years) and enormous tax increases for everybody BUT the wealthy.

And the direct reason that Obama's growth has been so "puny" as you put it is because he inherited the largest economic mess since the Great Depression. A mess that was directly related to CONSERVATIVE economic policies and massive deregulation.

We had big GDP growth in the lead up to the Great Depression as well. History shows that's the inevitable result of the Laissez-Faire policies so popular with Conservatives...an increasing series of boom-bust cycles until the entire economy collapses in a heap, crushing the middle class in the process.

How do you explain that Daniels has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country?

Because Indiana is full of John Birchers, white supremists and the rest of the far right wingers. For the most part it is rural with the exception of Indianapolis and the Northwest corner by Chicago which has been depressed since the early 70's.

I went to Gary, Indiana in the mid 70's, it looked like a slum back then.

That is my point, it has not received any help. Once the Steel industry packed up, the whole region, not just Gary has been depressed. There was a video recently that showed all the crumbling buildings in Gary and then tea party hacks saying that the people who live there don't need aide.

I have not been to Gary lately. I am from the other end of the state on the Ohio River. It's just as bad down here. In fact if you are south of Bloomington, I don't believe we are even recognized as part of Indiana. We should drop out and become part of Kentucky. Daniels has been the worst governor for the working man I have ever lived under. He has privatized all the state jobs thereby eliminating benefits and retirements for so many workers. A real union buster if I ever saw one. He has sold most of our state assets (read-toll roads) Assets our tax dollars paid for sold to overseas interests. I know some union workers have been protesting in the Capitol and right now the plan is to continue the protest thru the Super Bowl.

Great points, Catydid, and it just illustrates how the deregulatory, Laissez-Faire fervor of Conservative ideologues has slowly, then more rapidly destroyed our economy.

I get depressed every time I go home to Indiana, looking around at literally every building vacant and every house falling apart. I don't really even recognize it anymore, or the people for that matter. 'My Man Mitch' got it wrong... it's not the State of the Union that's grave, it's the state of Indiana. And a big, flat, empty shell of a grave it is.

I do not remember a time when Gary Indiana would have been considered a wonderful area, and I have lived near it for better than half a century now....And you can find areas of equal hardship all over this country, predominantly in areas that relied heavily on factory and manufacturing jobs (which incidentally, don't exist and probably won't return to this country)

Agreed. It is actually Proxmire, but I know who you mean. I have spelled it the same way myself.

I, too, am sick of the ever shrinking paycheck because there are all these "essential social programs" and I have to support my community, etc. The funny thing is that nobody in my family has ever seemed to qualify for any of those social programs, regardless of how tough our situation has ever become with illness, unemployment...we just never qualify, but we certainly pay. I am tired of paying for people who are able to live generationally without contributing to their community through their work or their taxes. Gee Whiz, I would like to sit at home watching sit coms, Gerry Springer, Judge Judy on a big screen TV and have everyone telling me that my poverty is the reason that I am overweight, suffering from high blood pressure and diabetes and heart problems. I have been told that it is demeaning to ask somebody to earn their welfare checks, by doing some sort of community service....Work is now demeaning? I think that is the reason right there that the middle class may be shrinking out of existence. Middle class is not so much a dollar amount, but rather a mentality that says that we all have to work to make sure our families are provided for. We hope that our work is successful and we can afford a car, a home, decent clothing, and perhaps some of the nicer things. But we don't believe that just because the guy across the street happens to earn more money and has two TVs when we only have one, that the reason we only have one TV is the guy across the streets fault. Middle class says that children are raised to respect authority, their country. Middle class says that children are expected to go to school and do well and complete homework. Middle class says that there are winners and losers and that you have to work to be on the winning side.

I actually believe that the cautionary statement you quote came from our founding fathers....interesting note: The one totally socialistic communal experiment on the North American continent occurred during the early colonial period-long before the revolution, and it was a screaming disaster. The concept of everyone shared equally in the rewards regardless of contributing to the work means that the colony in question essentially starved and froze, because everyone pretty much sat on their butts and waited for others to do the work-because after all, everyone got equal shares of the goodies. Can't remember which settlement it was, but I do remember reading about it in conjunction with a discussion about Marxism, Communism, Socialism throughout history and why it simply is fated not to work....why it does nothing to elevate people. It occurs to me that if we start with the concept that everyone successful is greedy, then perhaps their greed is one of the reasons for their success...Human nature is not necessarily good and kind, so perhaps, we should be finding ways to implement the natural greed to the benefit of all, to allow the flaw to become an asset. It seems clear from most postings that everyone thinks that the majority of people are greedy and selfish and that society is going to hell in a hand car anyway. The level of paranoia and conspiracy theories is staggering. Everyone is out to get us, to cheat us, to oppress us....If we have all given up all sense of personal direction in our lives, and that fact that what made America great and profitable, was people determining their own destiny, boldly going where nobody had bone before so to speak...then maybe we no longer deserve the rewards either. We seem to want things ready made by our government, which the government is willing to do in exchange for unquestioning "Sheeple"

Greg quote: "In 3 years Obama has accumulated 5 trillion of the current 15 trillion in debt. That is ONE THIRD of our nations debt from only 3 years of our country's existence. And people find ways to blame the republicans?!"

Greg, maybe you slept through the '80s & 90's, but YOUR Ronald "walks on water" Reagan tripled the existing National Debt in his 2 terms as President (first president to reach the 1 trillion $ amount), then along comes YOUR GW Bush and doubles the Nat'l Debt + destroys a surplus budget, instead of paying down the existing Nat'l Debt ... in fact half of the Nat'l Debt Obama run up was to save the crashing economy. You might wish to research the economic damage that would have been done if companies like AIG had crashed. And as far as "printing phony money", your ReThuglican party has raised the debt limit way, way more times since Ronald Reagan to offset spending than Clinton & Obama together ever have. Just do a research as to how many times GW Bush raised the debt limit while he was President. All the while, the RICH have gotten richer from their self-imposed tax breaks (ie Romney's 2010 tax return showing he paid the equivalent of UNDER 14% tax rate on over $22 million) while the shrinking middle-class have been paying a equivalent tax rate a lot higher. The net wealth of the middle-class has actually DECREASED since 1980 while the net wealth of the 1%ers has risen over 28%.

I think America has had quite enough of the ReThuglicans for at least another decade, and I'm sure 2012 elections will prove just that.

Great points, Mac, in fact our national debt would be virtually eliminated NOW without the destructive policies of presidents Reagan and GW Bush. Evidence here; http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

mechanicva ... you ask "what % is the right amount across the board" ... before answering that, I'll use myself as an example. In 2010 I paid 22% of my annual $78,000 income (after my mortgage deduction) to federal taxes ... same year Mitt Romney ( and there are many many others like him) paid under 14% on $23 million ... a much lower % rate, because, as Mitt says, "I get most of my income from investments". Also, in 2010, he reported over $370,000 in income for speaking engagements, still over 4X more earned income than I, yet the man pays UNDER 14% ... his tax filing was 400+ pages long, mine 7 pages long. Same thing with Newt Gingrich ... Gingrich has all the money he earns in his speaking engagements run through his "S Corporation" ... the corporation then pays Newt "a substandardly low salary" which he then reports as his earned income. By the way the IRS is currently investigating Newt's logic; his reported income way below reasonable, but again, Newt, like Romney, dodge paying the stated TAX RATE for their income bracket because of the special "EXCLUSIONS" they have managed to influence Congress to pass legislature so they don't pay their stated tax rate.

So, you ask "what is the right tax rate" ... as President Obama said in his speech, the playing field is not equal. The tax game is tilted in favor of the wealthiest Americans who have been able to influence favorable tax policies with their money. Certainly a man earning $78,000 should not be paying a higher % of his income to federal taxes as a man earning many $millions of dollars; and I believe most anyone, Republican or Democrat would agree. The Right Tax Rate is the "stated tax rate for their particular earnings level" without all the EXCLUSIONS, etc that allow them a more favorable tax rate.

If I were writing the tax codes, I'd have a 5% tax rate for those with earnings below the stated poverty level income of $24,000, 10% for those < $100,000, 15% for those <$250,000, 20% for those <1,000,000, a 25% tax rate for those <$5million, and a 30% for earned income over $5 million.

Investment income would be taxed at 15% first $500,000, and at 25% for any investment income over $500,000.

I am trying to figure out how you only paid 22% on 78K when I paid about 27% on 65K?????? Am I supposed to see you as one of the evil wealthy? I don't have a large enough mortgage to get income tax credt, and what about all those folks who haven't a mortgage for credit, or perhaps don't have children for deductions-are we to consider you a tax cheat for using the legitimate deductions to preserve the money you work for?

Corporations pay about 35% on earning prior to paying out to people like Warren Buffet and Mitt Romney. Then the Government takes an extra 15%. The same profits are ultimately taxed at 50% Do you all really think that we should take more? Do it and investment capital would dry up, companies would not have the funds to grow and unemployment would be even higher.

Not true, as a percentage of GDP US corporations pay a below average amount of only 2.9%. We also have one of the highest depreciation deductions in the entire world. That's just one of MANY tax deductions that result in the EFFECTIVE TAX RATE for US corporations running only 23.6%, very close to average within the industrialized world. http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6902/11-28-CorporateTax.pdf

@ Sue ... there is no reason why you would have to pay 27% on your $67,000 of income, even with NO deductions, as you are in a 25% federal tax bracket to begin with ... please check the current tax brackets. I believe you are adding in your state & FICA taxes as well. Another thing, unless you have a complicated tax return ( sounds like you don't), and IF your tax & deductions rarely change, you could always let a professional do your taxes one year, then the following years do your own taxes following what the tax accountant did the year prior. Sometimes, however, you cheat yourself out of deductions when you do your own taxes. The tax system has been made complicate ON PURPOSE to allow slick individuals like Mitt & Newt (who can afford accountants) to find loopholes around paying their taxes.

Got to remember, usually with very wealthy people, MONEY is the most important thing in their lives ... unlike many middle-class individuals. Some of these wealthiest get up in the morning plotting how they can scam their next $100,000 or so from everyone else ... MONEY is their GOD! Sad but true.