Good thing you have cocktails, we're going to need them.

Guess they're not going to live-tweet it on FR tonight.

Good thing you have cocktails, we're going to need them.

Jody,

Of all the debates, I am looking forward to this one the most...

Willard's glass jaw is about to be shattered... lol

Tell ya what, ill take a swig of beer every time the "open marriage" guy says "frankly"

sreeeeminglib: Also "fundamental". Newt loves to use that word.

screeeeminlib....add to that Newts' favorite word 'fundamentally'.....blah, blah, blah...

Ya' better have lots of beer.

Feisty, no kidding. Hard to say which Newt will show; who knows, he might implode tonight, too.

I clicked on the NBC Politics block twice and both times, once at the site my computer froze. Think I'll just stay here.

Pat and Chilled

Was planning on getting a good buzz not looking for hangover.

Baloney might be a more appropriate snack for Newt watching.

"Pious baloney" was Newt's word for Romney's answers but it really sums up the Newtster.

Can you imagine that the only criteria the base wants is "anger"?

It is the only thing that sustains them...

Without the hate - they have NOTHING!

Feisty, ain't that the truth. To think we were appalled growing up learning about The Holocaust. Look what's happening here since Obama was elected. Someone a day or two ago in I think a southern state killed someone's cat and then wrote LIBERAL on the dead cat.

No, Pat, I can't imagine any group only interested in anger. They don't seem to care about anything except being as nasty and mean as possible. Doesn't say much about the GOP.

The TeaPeople seem to forget what the inflammatory hate filled rhetoric of Silly Sarah got them....Nothing, Zip, Zero, Nada.

Think they would try a new approach.......Nope!....the Party of No!

Wow you people are seriously deluded this evening. You all should stay away from the liquor.....not wise to mix with whatever antidepressants you're on.

Antidepressants????

Look at the latest polls bud. In a head to head match up Obama beats Gingrich by +7 (at least)

sreeeeminglib

Look at the latest polls bud. In a head to head match up Obama beats Gingrich by +7 (at least)

Yeah that is true, but he runs slightly ahead of Mitts and even with Dr Paul, Let the Grinch destroy Mitts, Dr Paul really appreciates the help.

Romney is actually scoring some points on Newt's 15 years on K-Street; Newt didn't have a good answer just some spin, again blaming democrats. Newt looks a little deflated tonight, he can't pick on Juan Williams or John King.

Mitt cleaned Newts clock!

Romney is no push over. Do you know what it takes to be a venture capitalist? He's a shark! They eat you alive.

Go Mitt!!!

One thing Romney, Gingrich and Santorum should do is listen to Ron Paul's common sense message about foreign policy and war. Those three yahoos are ready to go to war with Iran, and Cuba, all making outright unfactual comments regarding Pres Obama's policies. Santorum's still talking about jihadists 90 miles off our coast that he claims to have been talking about for 6 years. While Paul won't admit it, he's more in line with President Obama's thinking on foreign policy than any of the republicans. Romney's idea of solving Afghanistan is to beat the Taliban, not talk to them. He really needs to study up on that region, I'd suggest he read "Ghost Wars". Gingrich touted Reagan's covert war in Afghanistan without ever mentioning that it was that covert war that created both the freedom fighters (the Taliban) and Al Qaeda. Newt thinks covert action in Cuba is the solution. I disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things but on foreign policy, he's way ahead of the other three war mongers.

Romney when asked about sugar subsidies went off on his usual nonsense spewing tangent about President Obama's not getting the economy moving (a lie) while NOT ONCE did Romney explain exactly what his plan is. Empty suit, all talk and no ideas just blame the other guy. Funny thing, not long ago Romney told FOX that the economy has gotten better; tonight, he's back to saying Obama made it worse.

Jody,

You might not like Dr Paul's Domestic policies and I can respect that. But you have to admit, at least he does have a plan, which it is obvious, none of the others have.

I think this one goes to Mitts, he was prepared today, and the crowd was much more subdued than the last one. Dr Paul was as steady as he always is, I think I would place him in second, the Grinch third, his emotional hate blather just didn't play tonight. Santorum should give it up, didn't get anywhere tonight.

Romney's off base again, it was President Bush who didn't have a vision for NASA, his idea was to return to the moon while Pres Obama set his sites on Mars. Don't blame President Obama for the failures of Clinton and Bush 43 at encouraging development of the next space craft transport system.

Egilman,

It will be interesting to see how the crowd changes in NE Florida when they are at UNF on Thursday. The difference in political outlooks between (and I am talking GOP) Tampa and Jacksonville are night and day, usually. :)

Side note: I always wanted to be an astronaut, but when I was growing up, girls weren't allowed.

Jody,

I don't place the problems with Nasa at the presidents feet, I place it with all of them since Reagan tried to get it going again. Neither of the Bush's, Clinton nor Obama have been able to resurrect the vision that Kennedy built there. Reagan came close, but no one has actually done it yet.

Phine,

The conservative base in Florida has always been the north part of the state, of course anyone from Miami/Ft Lauderdale would always claim that anything north of them is conservative.

No, Egilman, I don't agree with most of Ron Paul's politics because a purist approach never works; there's too much gray for a straight black and white approach but I do agree that he is often right when he speaks on foreign policy, not everything but certainly he has a more common sense approach. I also agreed with what he said about Cuba and opening talks, trade, and travel--which is exactly President Obama's approach.

Listening to the GOPers spin around the Terry Shivo (sp) questions was interesting. My, how they tried to avoid admitting how wrong they were in sticking the federal government's nose in a personal, family and state court matter, not the business of elected politicians. Jeb Bush was another one of those interferring republicans.

I know all the foreclosures have been focused on Fannie and Freddie, but why doesn't the MSM ever question the candidates about the banks who had fraudulent practices? Robo signatures, in some cases not even knowing who holds the mortgage, etc. A lot of state AG's are going after the banks. Would be interesting to hear what the candidates had to say about them!

Jody,

I agree and that is another where the Good Dr. nails them, the Government had no business in sticking it's nose in a family affair, whether it being in court or not, they just had NO business.

That is one area I wish Jeb would have stayed out of the mess, he will have to answer for it in the future I suspect.

Most hypocritical comment came from Newt Gingrich talking about the institutional politicians who won't work together to solve America's problems--let's see, Newt, that would be the GOPTPers in Congress taking a page from your divisive politics of "my way or the highway" when you were Speaker. The only reason you compromised with President Bill Clinton was because you shut the government down at great expense to tax payers and were forced to compromise or risk losing the House in 1996.

phine, I've wondered that, too. I think they get stuck on Fannie & Freddie because the GOP has been beating that drum since 2008. What about Bank of America, Countrywide, and the others who also loaned people money for homes they clearly could not afford and then sold the papers as package deals. Shoot, they often do not even know who holds the mortgage.

phine,

I believe that the AG count is up to 34 or so with what I understand is that even more are planning on joining. and yeah, I would like to hear what they have to say about it.

I know Dr Paul's position is GOOD they deserve what they get!

Egilman,

One of those AG's is Joe Biden's son - and from what I hear, he is taking no prisoners!

I know phine,

It's probably the only thing in the whole country where the Democrats and Republicans are actually working together! Guess what, the executive branch didn't like it during Bushes last few months and neither does Obama's offices.....

Heck of a paradox if you ask me...

Egilman, I failed to answer the rest of your Dr Paul domestic question. Yes, at least he has a plan; the others talk a lot but say nothing. I could not tell you what Gingrich or Romney's economic plan is except to elimnate the capital gains tax and offer a flat rate tax which is regressive for 90% of Americans.

They attack President Obama's policies but they never tell us what their policies are. Romney the other day said Pres Obama hadn't offered any jobs plan--was Mitt off skiing during the American Jobs Act speech, was he doing laundry when the GOP in Congress refused to vote on it or when the GOP Senators filibustered even the pieces of it. Making statement like Mitt's last week makes him look uninformed and stupid.

Egilman,

I was thinking the same thing.

Side note: Dr. Paul seems to say what he is for. The others seem to be against everything and for nothing.

Jody, I'm going to leave the jobs bill alone, I actually read it, before Reid rewrote it and afterwards. You are right in the fact that Mitts was not paying any attention to it or anything about jobs back then, he was just concentrating on the next election cycle. I agree they are attacking with out any answer and it seems like none of the media is willing to put them on the spot for it. Although, they have tried to turn elements of Dr Paul's plan into talking points, but that is just trying to steal The Dr's support.

Phine,

Dr Paul is always saying what he is for, as much as people try to spin it into a negative, he is always arguing on the positive side, not that anyone (except you) notices...

Reagan's approach to NASA was not too great either. His vision had more to do with Star Wars and the military aspect rather than space exploration. Obama cannot do much right now simply because how does he justify huge expenditures for NASA and space while the GOPTP wants to cut spending on much need programs here on earth; how do you justify space exploration when our infrastructure is crumbling. When the economy really improves, then I think President Obama would look to the future of space. Right now, the only way is to raise taxes on higher incomes and that's not going to happen as long as the GOP continues to kiss King Grover's ring.

Egilman,

I may disagree with Dr. Paul on many issues, the fact he is FOR something says a lot about him and I really respect him for that. Just like always being against everything says a lot about others.

Jody,

As a big believer in the space program, the sad thing is investment in it would create a LOT of jobs, and yet the Congress has blinders on.

I feel the need to watch Apollo 13 again. (Or re read the book!)

Jody, I didn't claim that Reagan's was much better, think of what I said as meaning at least he had a vision of space. Without Reagan we would not have had the Shuttle and all the advances that went along with it. Albeit the most expensive way to go, it for a LONG time was the only viable way to space.

And, the ISS couldn't have been built without it. Neither of the space telescopes would be in place without it. Kennedy's vision was that the space program showed the world America's superiority in technology, Reagan's wasn't quite the same but it was close.

I read the AJA, too. It was not perfect but that's why we have legislative and executive branches of government. A President presents his ideas and Congress is supposed to improve on it or rewrite it as they see appropriate, add, delete. How pathetic that our Congress is so dysfunctional they could not do what is necessary to help the people because ideology trumps doing what is right and necessary.

Egilman, yes, it was Reagan who pushed the space shuttle forward. That's about all I give him credit for doing besides deficit spending and changing us from a creditor nation to a debtor nation, Reagan is why I became a democrat.

Egilman,

Sorry to correct you, but the shuttle was being planned, designed and prototypes being built while Apollo was going on. (Hey, I am a space nut, what can I say).

Ran out of edit time. Thank you, phinephancy; I wasn't sure of who and when; glad you're a big fan. I was trying to remember when the Space Telescope was developed; my San Diego employer built some components of it but just can't remember the exact time frame.

Egilman, Reagan did support the space program. The problem was that like so many other things, he didn't pay for it. It was Reagan who began the tax cuts solve everything era thus starving government of the funds needed to continue investment in the space program, to invest in our infrastructure, etc. While taxes can be too high, if we want to do great things, we must be willing to pay for them and that means higher taxes.

Phine,

Sweetheart, growing up as a young man, I built just about every model of the space program there was to buy, I have Neil's and Buzz's autographs under glass on my wall, I currently work with many modelers on the Internet drawing scale prints and collecting original blueprints to assist the scratch modelers out there.

Yes Johnson cut funding before the first Saturn Five Apollo mission ever launched. The Shuttle was a dream of future planning when the last Saturn lifted off to the moon. (they had scratched three flights)

To President Fords credit he actually re-started the shuttle planning and initial construction, Enterprise is a credit to him, but it took Carter to make it airworthy and then actually build a functioning shuttle and then Reagan gave it a purpose..

Jody,

Reagan raised taxes I believe 12 times while he was in office.....

Egilman,

If I wasn't married I think I would ask you to run away with me. I love space nuts!!! (FYI, I actually met Neil and John Glenn, also Alan Shepard. Biggest thrill of my life!) I also had a friend that did an intership for the shuttle program while he was in college (old ex boyfriend). I just guess I misunderstood and thought you were giving Reagan all the credit, when that wasn't the case.

Phine,

Are you familiar with the Save the Lut campaign?

Apparently MSNBC folks had a very different take on the debate. My view is that Romney smashed Newt, and Newt came across as smug by refusing to tackle and play. However, the pundits say the debate went to Newt, who acted presidential by not taking the bait from Romney. Would love to hear others views.

RedDev...

That's the media for ya, Newt was really neutral this debate he didn't amount to much. Mitts was better and I think took this debate just ahead of the doc only because Mitts was forceful, in a forced way. Mitts still didn't gain any support because none of his positions have changes and he has revealed no answer to what he's actually going to do. Mitts by a smidge over Dr Paul...

Egilman,

No I am not. What is it? Oops, just googled it, and yes I have heard about it. It is history, they must preserve it!

Red,

I am always wrong on who wins debates. And I sat this one out. Waiting for Thursday when they are just up the road.

A few years back there was a campaign going on the save Lut #1 from the scrappers. the plan was for Nasa to donate it to someone who would re-erect it in a place where it could be maintained. Although there was a lot of support and some attempts to come up with a plan, the EPA finally forced Nasa to scrap it as an environmental hazard... They do have a web page and there is a yahoo group that is still active in preserving as much of the documentation as there is left....

Seriously, Lut #1 was the last piece of original actualy used flight hardware from the apollo missions to the moon that was basically complete. it was used for the first full up saturn 5 launch, the first launch of a man to the Moon, launched the flight that landed a man on the moon, was used for the manned side of the skylab missions, and was last used to do the ASTP flight.

Absolutely historic piece of hardware and it's now gone.

I have seen the web page. You would think someone could do something................

You would also think Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida would help with this. Hmmm I may shoot him an email about it.

Phine, too late it's gone long gone....three years ago..

Off topic -

Has anyone seen Forrest lately?

Hellow everyone;

I'm happy to hear there are people who notice the difference between Dr. Paul and the other Candidates. I've gotten into this years primary, watching everything I can. I usually stay out of things but this election will be quite important.

I, myself, am of no party. Personally, I don't think any form of party is a proper thing to have in government. Parties create party loyalty which undermines the principle of electing an individual.

I'm amazed at the dislike towards him.

thetotas

I saw a couple of post from him yesterday in fact...

thetotas,

Last night he was on line. Very late (or early morning depending on your point of view)

Egilman,

I had heard they were going to save part of it and try to rebuild at least a replica using some of the original. This was wrong? I also heard they wanted to get rid of the "mover" that moved the vehicles to the launch pad. Am I late on that too?

Thanks, I worry about him.

I guess I join your ranks as a bad judge of debate winners, Phine. C'est la vie.

Egilman - good observation that Newt was less than spectacular. I didn't believe anything that came out of his mouth. But perhaps, that is my distaste for him working in overdrive.

Again, only Paul had a semi-reasonable foreign policy stance. Newt, Santorum, Mitts all seemed one step away going nuclear on Iran. Mitts and his plan build 15 new Navy vessels a year to beef up the Navy. Where is that money coming from?

And the Cuban responses were the oddest. First was Newt, snarking at Romeny's religion by suggesting Castro would never be meeting his maker. Typical of Newt to pass judgement on another human being and sending them to hell. That is one pompous ass.

I believe that either the smithsonian or the national science museum has a number of levels with the crane mounted on top somewhere I'll have to check, I KNOW it's there just have to check on where.

What you ask about was one of the last plans that was floated about saving the rest, nope it didn't fly either and is long down the scrappers pipe now...

the Yahoo group has many photos from the years it rusted away in the "Boneyard" you might want to look it up...(Ps: has many other interesting photos also)

Newt is his own worst enemy.

RedDev,

Your right he is a pompous ASS, starting with claiming he's a Reagan Republican and going downhill from there, it's all lies and bluster. (Reagan actually asked an aide if there was any way Newt could be thrown out of the party, that's how much Reagan liked newt, I know this because I was standing there and hearing it with my own ears)

Egilman, thanks for all the info. It is a shame. Wish I had paid more attention to it earlier. Now I know how the hubby felt when they scrapped the ship he was on. :(

Red,

I wish someone would tell these guys it is not 1962, Castro is dying, and Russia is not in a position to do anything anymore. Sheesh. They just love living in the past.

thetotas,

Sad thing is a lot of GOP base is turning to him because he does the angry man thing so well, and they are angry too!

And with that a pleasant evening to all, on the good planet earth! (Hopefully Houston will not hear I have a problem)

Santorum rattled on about all the scary countries poised to take over Cuba the minute Castro dies, and the need to beef up the military to protect Floridians from the impending invasion. What is it about the GOP and their need to feed fear.

Phine,

Actually it was the SC republicans, they are a strange breed, they just love the sock it to 'em side.

The actual base doesn't go for all the hate anymore, we just want the truth and not the spin from either party. the mainstream Conservatives haven't spoke yet, when they do it will be a huge shift in the republican party. I just hope they do it soon...

Sleep soundly my dear....

RedDev,

It's the same red scare tactics the Dixicrats used to use in the fifties and early sixties, it doesn't really work on conservatives anymore, the ironic thing in reality is it is an old democrat campaign tactic.

To me, it just tells me who not to support, a big flashing sign....

Egilman - I hope you are right about the conservative base, but it seems to rile up the extreme right GOP/TP groups. And as long as Romney and Newt pander to the far right, they keep making crazy statements on foreign policy. Perhaps in the run against Obama, some of this would calm down.