At Thursday's Republican presidential debate in South Carolina, Newt Gingrich slammed the news media for focusing on accusations by his ex-wife that he requested an "open marriage." NBC's Peter Alexander reports.
Updated 10:07 p.m.
Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich, each battling furiously for a win in Saturday's South Carolina primary, pointedly questioned each other's experience to be president, while being forced to account for standing questions about the challenges they face to winning the nomination and beating President Obama.
The two leading candidates in South Carolina's primary this weekend largely avoided sniping at each other in the first half hour of the debate -- a spirited affair less than 36 hours before voting begins in the Palmetto State -- but engaged each other more directly as the evening progressed.
Gingrich was pressed to explain his past support for a mandate for individuals to purchase health insurance, and his manner of leadership as speaker of the House, a tenure described by critics as erratic.
But Gingrich scored early -- and decisively -- with a fiery response to allegations from an ex-wife that drew wild applause from the crowd in attendance.
Romney, meanwhile, had to defend his business record and answer questions as to why he wouldn't release his income tax records, all while relitigating conservative criticism of the health care reform he signed as governor of Massachusetts.
Through this, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, crowned the winner this morning of the Iowa Caucuses after a retabulation of results, was anxious to take on both Romney and Gingrich, distinguishing himself as a steady if not-flashy alternative to the two leading candidates.
The Republican presidential field may be smaller, with Jon Huntsman and Rick Perry recently dropping out, but that's not stopping the fireworks on the campaign trail ahead of South Carolina's primary on Saturday. NBC's Chuck Todd takes a look at what may be next.
The debate, the 17th of the cycle, followed one of the most dramatic days of the 2012 campaign. Thursday saw Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s exit from the campaign trail, new extramarital allegations against Gingrich, polling data showing Romney’s advantage slipping in South Carolina, and a new declaration by the Iowa GOP anointing former Santorum – not Romney – the winner of its Jan. 3 caucus after certifying official results.
Perry drops out of GOP presidential race, endorses Gingrich
The tone of the forum was set early when Gingrich angrily assailed CNN moderator John King for opening the debate by asking Gingrich to answer allegations made by his ex-wife, Marianne, in an interview with ABC News, saying the then-speaker of the House asked to engage in an "open marriage," or else he would file for divorce.
"I am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate with a topic like that," Gingrich said, earning wild applause from the audience. "To take an ex-wife and make it two days before the primary a significant question in a presidential campaign is as close to despicable as anything I can imagine."
Gingrich angrily rebuffs questions about ex-wife
Gingrich disputed the allegations as "false," and his three fellow Republicans onstage resisted piling on. ("Let's get on to the real issues," former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said.)
Recent pollng of the race suggests that Gingrich has been enjoying a late surge in South Carolina, one that could threaten Romney's bid for a win that, his campaign hopes, would all but seal the nomination for the former Massachusetts governor.
An NBC News-Marist poll released Thursday found Romney leading at 34 percent among likely primary voters in the state, followed by Gingrich at 24 percent, Texas Rep. Ron Paul at 16 percent, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum at 14 percent, and Texas Gov. Rick Perry at 4 percent. But in the latter half of the two-day poll, following Gingrich's strong performance during a Monday debate, Romney's lead winnowed to five points.
NBC poll: Newt Gingrich gains ground on Mitt Romney in South Carolina
South Carolina has correctly predicted the eventual Republican nominee since the inception of its primary in 1980; in each subsequent contest, the winner has gone on to become the GOP standard-bearer.
Romney has sought to project an air of inevitability surrounding his candidacy, but has been dogged by questions about the business practices of Bain Capital, the private equity firm he cofounded, that go to the core of his argument that he is the candidate most experienced to repair the U.S. economy. Romney's work for Bain also made him wealthy, and Romney's GOP rivals have pressed him to release his tax returns.
He dealt with both issues Thursday evening. Romney sought to explain Bain's work in greater detail, highlighting instances in which its work created jobs. He avoided engaging with Republicans, like Gingrich, who have questioned Romney's private sector record.
"I'm someone who believes in free enterprise," he said. "And I'm going to stand and defend capitalism across this country, throughout this campaign. I know we're going to get hit hard from President Obama, but we're going to stuff it down his throat and point out it is capitalism and freedom that makes America strong."
Romney also faced pressure to release his tax returns. He said he would release records -- going back an unspecified number of "multiple" years -- but not until April, by which time the primary may well be settled.
It was Santorum, though, who put the most pointed questions to the two frontrunners. Santorum, who served in Congress while Gingrich was speaker, raised questions about whether Gingrich's conduct as a leader would lead to a "worrisome moment" for the GOP.
"Grandiosity has never been a problem with Newt Gingrich. He handles it very, very well," Santorum said, later adding: "I knew what the problems were going on in the House of Representatives when Newt Gingrich was leading there. It was an idea a minute, no discipline, no ability to be able to pull things together."
That exchange opened up a broader, sharper discussion between the candidates on their backgrounds. Romney characterized Gingrich as a lifelong insider, and again touted his business experience as the best qualification for his candidacy.
"I was in business 25 years. So you're not going to get credit for my 25 years," Romney said. "I don't recall a single day saying, 'Oh, thanks heavens Washington is there for me.'"
But Romney was also put on the spot by Santorum, and later, Gingrich, over his record in Massachusetts. Gingrich accused Romney of continuing to support abortions even after having announced his opposition to abortion rights. And Santorum went on the attack on Massachusetts health care reform.
"It is not a free-market health care system. It is not bottom-up. It is prescriptive and government. It was the basis for Obamacare," Santorum said.
Romney stumbled at moments and offered wonky answers in response to the criticism, repeatedly vowing that, for whatever his past record shows, he would govern in opposition to abortion rights.
"I did my very best to be a pro-life governor. I will be a pro-life president," Romney said.
Texas Rep. Ron Paul at times fell to the background, having to make quips at moment about not being afforded an opportunity to join the scrum onstage. At one point, when the moderator was ready to move on after a question on abortion, the crowd complained that Paul hadn't been given an opportunity to answer.
The debate came after one of the most momentus days in the campaign. Perry ended his bid for the nomination and threw his support behind Gingrich, who has shown signs of revival in South Carolina, and who has sought to rally conservatives under the banner of being the best alternative to Romney.
That narrative shaped Thursday night's debate, which saw Gingrich engage in frequent crowd-pleasing answers, dropping references to Ronald Reagan and taking frequent shots at the media.
Whether Romney did much to reverse his slide likely won't be known until Saturday, when South Carolinians head to the polls. Debate settings have been a strength for Gingrich, and he, Paul and Santorum have relished the opportunity to pile on Romney in these settings. (Another debate is scheduled for Monday night in Florida.)
The debate, hosted by CNN and the Southern Republican Leadership Conference, was broadcast at 8 p.m. ET.


I have a feeling they won't be discussing a lot of policy issues. It would be a lot more amusing if they had racks of pies behind the podiums.
I can't wait to see if there are questions about Newt's ex-wife's interview. She said that Mitt told her that Callista didn't care what he did. Of course, that was when Newt was still married to Marianne. I'll bet Callista cares about it now. I hope someone asks him that very question.
Well said Anna. Who said soap operas were dead?
Can't wait to see Newt explain wife-swapping and open-marriage to Santorum and Romney. Poor little Ricky's head will explode when he finds out marriage has already been redefined to one man and with consent one or more women. Being from a religion founded in polygamy, Romney will understand the concept.
This debate is going to be "THE" most sanctimonious "debate " ever. Let's see how many BS these Republicans can tell about abortion. Sooooo compassionate! Newt wants children to do janitorial jobs at early age, but he is SOOO concerned about fetuses, and he calls black people "lazy" on their face. Santorum wants to start a war and kill thousands of innocent people, but he is soooo concerned about fetuses.
And MItt...Oh Mitt! What does he know? He is a Mormon, and Mormons still do not practice birth control. They do not know anything about poor people, because most of the Mormon church are "clean cut" Americans, especially him and his 5 sons. ...Just look at those annoying youngsters knocking on your door, riding their bicycles and wearing a suit. When have you seen a poor one, riding a worn out bicycle or without a tie? and when you open the door, they want to convince you to turn into a Mormon.....
This hypocrisy is getting sooo gross, it is sickening. Please just shut your mouths, Americans are tired of hearing you Republicans flapping your jaws.
These clowns need to discuss Blingrich's wives and how he neglected and deserted them. Why do I think Nasty Newt would be the first to bail in a time of crisis???? Wow, what presidential material.........
Anna Molly
The moderator can ask Mrs. Newter directly. She will be directly behind him or hiding in his podium. She believes in open marriage enough to not let that varmint get more than 3 feet away from her.
She is well aware of what she is dealing with and she ain't letting another floozy get close to her meal (Tiffany) ticket.
lol @ under the podium, ala "Police Academy"
So we will have Mitt explaining his tax problems, and how paying a lower rate than most middle class Americans is still not low enough.
Newt will provide us with more words of wisdom, like: "I'll go down to the NAACP and show them what a paycheck looks like", or "Spanish is the language of living in the ghetto" (followed by an apology in Spanish), and my personal favorite "Women should not fight in the military with men because they will get a disease." You just can't help but laugh at him.
And, of course, we will have Santorum blaming all of our economic problems on homosexuals. Then explaining why birth control is bad, and promoting his religious fascism.
I'm starting to believe that these debates are funded by Comedy Central and Funny or Die, just to give them an endless supply of fresh material.
Complete reality show indeed. I have often said the GOP race on its own is nothing more then a reality show. The prize? A show on FOX as an analyst. Second place? Book deals.. President Obama will again be and remain President Obama. That I have foretold already. In fact the powers that be mind you have already made this decision long ago. The formality of the race is simply the standard to bare. The show. Nothing more then a way to obtain millions or even billions that could have been spent in the economy for jobs or loans etc... ; ]
This GOP blunder of a race is so obscure so absolute in its in-defiance it can only be categorized as banal. Other wise why would party leaders give such unusual unscrupulous un conservative choices to there party and base? Why is Mr. Romney the guy NO one wants in there party most likely to be the guy who represents there party? It is the PRICE I have made them pay for there failure under Mr. Bush. The disaster of absolute hypocrisy they portrayed to us under his leadership. The joke is on all of you who supported them indeed. ; ]
Cheers
Why or why is the GOP still supporting the two obviously flawed candidates when there is an honest conservative politician to be supported..... Dr. Ron Paul ?
If you say that you don't like certain things about Dr. Paul, that is true of each candidate. However, IMO he has two very important things going for him, 1. He states his position and sticks to it. 2.) Most importantly, he is not owned by any corporation or special interest group.
Gingrich: Foreign "affairs" has a whole new meaning.
Romney: Invade Iran, lay them off, and sell it for parts.
Santorum: Would become King of this pure Christian land.
Paul: A nuke in every pot, I say!
Perry: Still thinks he won.
Only media and Democrats are watching the soap opera of the candidates personal life, to divert the the real issues that Obama can't campaign, Obama has no record of real accomplishment other than divide the nation; fix the economy, create jobs, balance the budget, energy independence, immigration, national defense, foreign policy are the real issues. Clinton with his dysfunctional sexual life and also JFK show that commitment of fidelity to their wife's is not the same to commitment to the nation.
Just glad we don't have to hear from Macheal Bachman anymore. So, either Newt or Romney. That means Obama wins.
That is why the place is packed with people cheering at New Gingrich saying that he is not embarrassed to tell black people to "Stop asking for a check and ask for a job"; and they booo Ron Paul about the "Golden Rule" of not doing to other countries what we do not want other countries to do to us -war-
I think you have it backwards pal. The "debates" are full of dumb Republican voters
Irespond You are sooo critical of others but anybody who thinks there is a difference morally between abortion and infanticde is morally corrupt. Legal and moral are two different things. God never said thou shalt not kill except for those who haven't popped out of mama yet. As far as Mitt goes you forgot about the village full of cousins in Mexico who surely aren't poor by any means.
I don't know a single man who has been divorced who will believe any thing a ex wife has to say PERIOD ,
AS FOR MERIANN wasn't she the one who was involved in unethical if not criminal activity of which Newt was cleared after all the investigations ,yup she was ,
I don't watch these Party of the 1% debates because I don't want to risk early-onset dementia.
They can't be good for the brain.
" tell black people to Stop asking for a check........"
This is not true he never say black, show me the link to the video he say that, you democrats make all racist to mantain people of color in your side , with lies. You are the ones that maintain black people in your political plantation, any black who leave the plantation and get the freedom from the government succeed and turn to republican is called Oreo cookies and demmonized, who are the racist?
The GOP Clown Carnival continues.
I mean really have you ever seen such a Clown show in your life!
I wonder if South Carolina is going to follow Iowa's lead?
Missing Romney ballots
That way there is no question about "Hanging Chads"... Well done Iowa conservatives, jolly well done!
oskar-1391552 - You guys crack me up. Democrats are "watching" your party's soap opera in order to divert attention. Do you understand how obtuse that sounds? Really? We're watching to divert?
Then you go on to divert attention from your party's soap opera by pointing out Clinton and JFK's infidelity. Has the Republican Party really come to this? ...sorry, rhetorical question.
@ Oskar:
Funny how you Republicans Miss The OBVIOUS language of your representatives. Look at the clown that you put for a token Republican: Herman Cain. I am sure there are decent black Republicans, but you guys had to choose a total moron that was going a make a fool of himself.
Also, you do not mention anything about my comment of Ron Paul...Again...Selective dialogue of you Republicans.....
The funniest clown is Mr. FLOP
Mitt Flip Flop Romney, the CORPORATE RAIDER and one time governor of Liberal Mass. Has supported Abortion, Gay Rights, Gun Control, Stem Cell Research and has reverse himself on all of these issues.
He took both sides on the financial bailout, the stimulus bill, the auto loan package;
His biggest Flip-Flop of all Health Care Reform The national Law is modeled on the one that he championed as governor in Mass that requires every citizen to have health insurance. Now he has Flipped-Flopped Mr. Flop has taken a hard slide to the right pandering to the tea party.
Mitt Flip-Flop Romney, a wishy-washy, flip flopping politician without any core convictions, principals or believes a man who will say or do anything to get elected telling one crowd one thing and another crowd another. You simply can’t trust this guy to tell you the truth.
The only good thing that would happen if Flip-Flop were to get elected It would prove that Conservatism is dead as Flip-Flop would stab the Conservatives in the back.
Mitt Flip Flop Romney LMAO!
Than you have the Clown Newt
and the Right wing nut job In- sane-aterium
Ron Paul is probably senile
And what ever happened to the Pizza Clown he was a laugh riot
Will see very soon , the " clown" and the " Joker" face to face.
To oskar, comment #1.18
" . . . This is not true he never say [sic] black . . ."
No, he said "African American," and he said this many times. What is it with you folks? The truth shall set you free. Stop the lies.
You asked for the video link; here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH-zJcr7cHk
And of course...Why do I bother watching? That A**** of Mitt Romney saying that he wants to run health care like a "business" and not like the "Post office" Piece of Crap!That is exactly why Americans DO NOT HAVE INSURANCE NOW, RETARD.... Because it is run like a BUSINESS... When is being "Healthy"a profit? Only a Wall Street Piece of S***t like you would say that! I HATE REPUBLICANS!!!!!!
At least Gingrich had the guts to ask for an open marriage.
Bill Clinton was just a sneaking cheater.
Mr. Gingrich is against gay marriage and FOR traditional marriage. Well.. For everyone BUT himself anyway. He wants an UN traditional marriage. You kno. The kind his "wife" Calita allows him to have while he admonishes other women before her. Because he sees himself as special. God like maybe? ; ] As Mr. Gingrich attempts to bring a hussy into the white house that was an UN Christian like home wrecker you must take in to account that he loves the do as I say NOT as I do kind of life style. Abortion for all in any case wrong. But cheating again and again and stomping the sanctity of marriage great for him is it?
I must break news here but I have it on GOOD authority that Calista herself may or may not have had an ABORTION. This will be coming out in the next few weeks as I am told. How you like them apples eve? Hmmm. ; ]
Cheers
Oh Gosh! how convenient! WHERE IS ALL THAT BS ABOUT "FAMILY VALUES" Why can he ask for an "open marriage" but he thinks that gay people married are wrong? 2 people that are in a MONOGAMOUS relationship are wrong for adopting? and he can have some tail on the side, and be ok? With 2 daughters?
Am I hearing this correctly or is it the twilight ZONE?
PRIME ROYAL BS DELIVERED TO YOU BY THE MASTERS. I need a drink!!!
Never Stop Asking Questions- So I guess you won't watch the 1% debate between Dems and Repub. Both Congress, POTUS, Dems and Repubs are 1%. Dementia is what you will get.
Oskar, you make a very good point. And Darrel, too. Who cares about a president's or candidate's sex life when the country is going down in flames--from disastrous economic policies, from external and internal threats that our current administration refuses even to name; from a White House diminishing our military at the time when we're as close as we've ever been to existential danger...I could go on.
I care how someone will do the job of leader of our country and the free world. Not what went on between him and his wife behind closed doors. If you were facing life-saving surgery, wouldn't you want the best surgeon? If you found him, would you say 'Wait--how's your marriage?' Would you interview his ex?
As for the ex-wife: how tacky can you get?!!!
According to the bible, Newt should have been stoned to death twice. His 2nd and 3rd wives,too since they committed adultery by having sex with a married person. That is the punishment for adultery. Asking for an open marriage doesn't mean he committed less of sin as Clinton. That ridiculous 'old-fatguy'.
Did you watch the part where Romney said "Newt, I concede, you're the better mormon."
The Look on Newters face was simply priceless as he went WHAAAAWWW WHAAAWW WHAAAW!!! LMAO. he was freaking out and getting alllllll twisted. LOVED IT
R estore
O ur
N ation
P rotect
A merica
U nderstand
L iberty
Apparently Marianne didn't think Newt was so morally bankrupt when SHE was the "other woman".
What she didn't want to share him with was his political office and obligations. She must not have accepted that it came with the package when she married him. That's what she didn't want to share him with. So she has to muddy it up in the hopes of being the spoiler to his campaign. How bitter. Biased mainstream media was only too willing to give her a forum. Shame on them.
IRESPOND: Funny how some give Obama a pass on not favoring gay marriage. But want to crucify any Republican who feels the SAME way as Obama. At least the Republicans have the guts to say it while Obama was for it, then against it and now says he is "evolving"...doesn't have the backbone to take a stand one way or the other.........until after the election, that is.
Ron Paul said that South CArolina is known for their respect for Liberty...He meant to say BIGOTRY!
He is the only honest of the loot.
Oh Please! The dream of every "Conservative" is to revoke Roe vs. Wade.. and gay Marriage KEEP DREAMING! That is not going anywhere! President Obama knows how not to say asinine comments that will come and bite him in the A***, just like all these CLOWNS tonight.
It is so funny the "holier" than thou attitude and words of Mr. Gingrich to and at the moderater. In fact his comment about his actions and that of Calista dissuading "decent" people from running for office? Hmmm. Does Mr. Gingrich actually consider himself decent? Really? How many mistresses? How many wives? An abortion by Calista? Hmmm. ; ]Really?
In fact hipocrisy is just that. But what is MOST disappointing above all else is the absent minded ignorance perpetrated by those who support such contrived drivel. Those same people who brush aside tolerance love acceptance in place of hatred self aggrandizing and absolutism deserve NOTHING less.. ; ]
Indeed
Cheers
There is no one I can vote for. Not Obama. Not any of the Republicans.
350 million people and these TURDS are all we can come up with????
What a sad sad commentary on the state of our nation.
I also do not really care about the sexual shenanigans of Newt or Presidents Clinton or Kennedy, although, that they caused great pain to their families shows large weakness. I do however, care a great deal about the huge and glaring show of hypocrisy on the part of Newt which is only compounded by his candy-a$$ late in life "conversion" to a highly moral family man.
And on a silly note, and as a woman, the idea that all of these women were willing to partner with him is repulsive. At least Bill and JFK were appealing. (And yes, I know how shallow that is.)
vote Ron Paul you idiots! Thanks for reading.
"Romney clearing hurdles?"
Romney got killed down there in SC.
The writer of this article must have slept through most of the debate.
Romney was absolutely destroyed tonight.
Where do these writers get their degrees nowadays, from a crackerjack box?
Quote #1: “And so I’m prepared if the NAACP invites me, I’ll go to their convention and talk about why the African American community should demand paychecks and not be satisfied with food stamps,” Gingrich said earlier today in Plymouth, N.H. January 2, 2012 ABC News;
Quote #2: "Spanish is the language of living in the ghetto". Cannot find a written transcript, but there is a YouTube video;
Quote #3: "Women should not fight in the military with men because they will get a disease.". Cannot find the referrence.
While, I am not Newt's biggest fan, I hate things being taken out of context. The first quote, as sited by a reasonably reliable source, that I have shown, is the exact statement made. The second came from a conference for the National Federation of Republican Women about bilingual education and mandates issued by multiple states to mail voting ballots in multiple languages in 2007 (CBS-Washington). during that same conference, he called English the "language of prosperity". The third quote yielded nothing.
I have no problem with people siting references for their point of view, but, be honest. Use the entire quote(s), and use them in context.
Hey Jack,
Tell me what's wrong with Obama.
Family values? Check
Educational background? Check
Working-class upbringing? Check
Not as dumb as Perry, conniving as Newt, holier-than-thou as Santorum, phoney as Romney? Check
Hell of a lot better choice than anything on that stage tonight.
obumbo promised "hope and change" but we got a "hopeless catastrophy". He promised a transparent administration full of integrity but we got a cabinet of corrupt tax cheats who hide behind a bunch of corrupt anti- American czars. We need change alright and whether it's Newt or Mitt or Rick, the corrupt inept fool we now have in the WH will be GONE!!!! Trust me!!!!!!!!!!!! You libs can howl all you want but yur guy is a hopeless failure and WE KNOW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You had "hopeless catastrophe" before Bush ever left office.
If you couldn't see it, you were deliberately ignoring the facts.
And as for tax cheats, let's all just wait until we have Romney's tax returns and then let's talk.
IRESPOND: You just made my case...
"President Obama knows how not to say asinine comments that will come and bite him in the A***.."
EXACTLY. He doesn't have the b@lls to take a stand one way or the other...no convictions. He'll go with whatever gets him the most votes.... No backbone. His stand is whatever stand can get him what he wants...votes. Priority #1...HIMSELF.
Was that just a statue of Ron Paul on the end of the line up?
The real ugly will come once Android Romney and his sponsors have bought his way into the nomination. The Democrats are a wimpy, disorderly bunch, but Gross Old Plutocrats Incorporated and its army of unblinking religious fanatics seem capable of anything and everything.
Newt Gingrich is, was, and has always been just a big, hot, stinky, meltdown mess. Karen C. is right: On what planet does this loony warthog have anything going for him, as far as any self-respecting woman is concerned?
FORDAY...I don't know what debate you were watching, because the one I saw, Newt came out forcefully and full barrels blasting, and in VERY strong words made clear how this was a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE and not (my words) a place or a time to discuss tabloid type gargage....but to debate the issues important to our country. And that the media is more intersted in attacking every Republican candidate than they are about the issues..and shame on them for trying to divert from the reason they were all there.
There wasn't a WHAAAAAA or an ummmm or an unclear message at ALL.
Interesting times lie ahead!
BullwinkleMoose:
I pulled up the missing quote. Here you go.
-- Adjunct Professor Newt Gingrich, Reinhardt College, January 7, 1995, "Renewing American Civilization."
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Over 675 comments and most of them by the limp-wristed, mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, class envying Liberal yahoos.
And of course the topic-du-jour is Newt's personal life from 30 years ago. They obviously forget JFK's four, if not more, affairs. LBJ's affair. And of course the grand-philanderer of all time Billy "Blue Dress" Clinton.
Funny isn't it? Clinton is the second Democrat president to be impeached, Andrew Johnson was the first. And Barrack Obama is the first president to cause our perfect credit rating to be downgraded, also a Democrat. But the limp Libbies meander in their delusion of being the moral fiber of America believing a disgruntled ex-wife.
Maybe if Barrack spent less time in Disney World, and I don't mean on vacation, I mean in his mind, we could get our economy out of the ditch he was so eager to drive the car out of. No domestic policy, no economic policy, no foreign policy but lots of spending and by the end of this year he'll have driven our National Debt to nearly $17 TRILLION Dollars.
Maybe Mickey Mouse can slap some sense into
GoofyBarrack so he can stop campaigning and finally do some governing.ABO (Anybody But Obama) 2012
The Hopeless catastrophe started with the CRA in 1977. When politicians decided to manipulate banks into giving loans to people who couldn't afford them. What did the politicans do? They lowered loan requirements below what banks have known for years were high risk. 1999 changes opened the flood gates of prosecution of banks who weren't making loans in economically dissadvantaged areas or even not opening branches in economically disadvantaged areas. It's amazing how all of these practices are "probably" discrimination because of Race. What banks did was lower their standards to the government established standards, which artificially stimulated the demand for new homes.
Demand increases price & value. You had an artificial demand of housing that inflated value that when these houses started getting recycled in the market as they were taken over by the banks, when the inhabitants could not pay. That is what caused the crash.
There is lots of tapes showing Bernanke and Paulsen trying to explain the problem to Democrats (who controlled both houses from 2007 to 2011 that we could crash because of these unchecked problems.
I tell you, just like the days of 1928- october 1929, nobody wanted to hear that the amount of money going into the stock market was causing a huge overvaluing of stock, No one wanted to hear the increase in housing from 1999 - 2008 was going to blow up at some point either. That is why the market crashed in 1929 and that is why housing nearly crashed banking in 2008.
the republican party is doomed in 2012 leading with the Newt .. he is old, white and no where near what america need s moving forward .. give it up you lizard !
Was Ron Paul not part of this debate? He's the only one of the bunch I'd vote for. Bring home the troops and leave people alone to run their own lives. I like that. Sick of government getting in my bedroom.
And wtf exactly does Newt the chickenhawk know about combat? The only thing he has ever combatted is a sexual addiction.
This posts demands a lighthearted moment. And while I cannot give you that I CAN give you this. ; ]
Picture it. A scene from Star Wars in modern times. A chair upon which sits the witch. The Witch of Endor. As her back is turned towards us nie we see the outline. The outline of a manly figure. This manly figure is of substantial reckoning. Bald. Bald with cold calculating shiftiness's. And out of the ceiling drops a ball. But upon further inspection the lighting reveals a helmet. A white witchy helmet. It STOPS. It stops right above the head of its host. And as the host brings its hands to bare it grasps the helmet tightly. Dropping it upon the bald brow of distinction. It turns. Toward us it turns. But it is NOT Darth Vader my friends. It is Calista. Calistas helmet. A wakky ZAANy helmet of head hair. A nose of a witch and a hussy's buoyancy. The Witch of Endor stands before you nie. ; ]
A bit daft is it?
In all seriousness she and he remind me that they WISH they were on channel of God. With the lady who's head is purple. And there hair moves not before us. With a can of hairspray a day why would they protect the environment. I mean wheres the style? The new fresh up to date THIS years doo? Hmm. The same as it has been will be and ever was indeed. And that nose made perfect. For Coke a Cola is the best drink around. ; ]
Cheers
Dman…
Perhaps we should elect a 20year old, a know it all living with his parents youngster into the White House and everyone would be happy.
Thing that got me puzzled is his ex. Why didn’t she wait a few months, until he was in the White House and then come out with “the secret”? She would have made $ millions telling the world that.
The Republicans are in bad shape for 2012.
"I know we're going to get hit hard from President Obama, but we're going to stuff it down his throat and point out it is capitalism and freedom that makes America strong."
The "Obama hates Capitalism, he is a communist, he hates America and straight people, he is black" argument is a loser.
Looks to me like another four years, of one of the most intelligent and effective presidents in the history of this great country.
FreedomRingsLoud:
Don't forget the late Pres. Franklin Delanor Roosevelt---he had his Mistress, Lucy Rutherford for 30 years! Eleanor did not care.
It is a Congressional, and Presidential Privilege, to cheat on your wife, who stays by their side for the money and Status of being Mrs----??????
It's written in the Bill of Rights, and their Marriage Certificate..
Aeonwing:
Thank you for the quote. It puts things into perspective.
it seems to me that none of the candiidates really know what they believe. what ever happened to the men in this country who will stand up for what they believe in and grow a spine. as the old addige goes if you dont stand for something you will fall for anything !! be a man and take the critisism or better yet lets find a man above reproach or is there any man ou there above reproach ezekiel 22:30 and i sought for a man amoung them,that should make up the hedge, and stand in the land, that i should not destroy it: but i found none... lets get a man not a spineless coward
Bill Clinton was my hero... Who else could cut a deal with Gorbachev, eat a pizza, drink a beer and get a BJ without breaking a sweat? The consummate multitask-er... Old fat guy or whatever thinks Newt was a stand up guy for suggesting an open marriage. Never mind that this was after he practiced an open marriage, not before. See that's what GOP brains do they concoct mindless partisan exaggerations and when you call them on it they try to insult you by describing themselves. Notice it only works on your fellow wing-nuts. The stand up guy is the one in the white house that you hate. You hate monogamy... You hate America... You Traitor.
Ron Paul's Freedom includes freedom to be as greedy as you want, freedom for corporations to be classified human, freedom for large companies to pollute as much as they want, Freedom for the wealthy elite on Wall Street and elsewhere to manipulate economics and politics even more than they do now, ...... It includes NO freedom or protection for working people from being abused and underpaid by their employers, ..... in short, Freedom with no responsiblity for anyone but the selfish self. ........That is pretty much the philosophy of all the Republican Candidates who represent no one but entrenched wealth to do as they please, and screw everyone else.
Jesse G-
It's clear you know nothing about Ron Paul.
Should the government decide how greed is defined? Would you accept more income if you could? You greedy POS!
Corporations are formed by people, run by people. Corporations become evil when they are able to influence politicians to pick winners and losers. Politicians become evil when they allow themselves to be influenced by corporations.
You do know that Paul is the ONLY one talking about sound money and ending the Fed, right? Why does he stand by this? To end the arbitrary manipulation of the currency by the Fed and the banking industry
Through the manipulation of the currency, inflation, lower income workers suffer disproportionately.
Freedom and liberty is about the individual, or would you prefer we define freedom and liberty based on which "group" you belong?
I agree with you on those points when you talk about Gingrich, Santorum and Romney. Ron Paul does not fit any of your classifications. You should spend some time researching, reading, and educating yourself on Ron Paul's views. The real ones, not sound bytes from the media.
Once again, the media bias against Paul is shameless.
Wow. A whopping 54 words in this article about Dr. Paul. When even the crowd at a debate has to shout down the moderator to get the guy his due time, you know there's a problem.
Paul's organization and donations are vastly above those of Santorum. Paul actually has electoral votes (unlike Gingrich). Paul is the only one who's going to compete against Romney in Virginia. Right now, he's polling above Santorum in South Carolina. How does he not deserve more screen-time and recognition in coverage of the debate?
I'm sorry I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding Romney's taxes. Romney was right, they aren't due until April 15th for 2011, and still have to be accepted by the IRS, first. Just like everyone else in America, folks! It's not even January 31st, and some businesses, employers and bank statements haven't even been released yet. So, exactly how is Romney suppose to release a 2011 return that is still being prepared by Tax Preparers? Romney answered the question honestly... When the 2011 Return is completed, he will release that year and several prior years. FYI, exactly how many years does Romny have to release to appease the disgrunts out there. After all, even Obama only releases one year and nothing prior to Obama's 2008 is released. Obama had all his records sealed from public review. Why isn't that the bigger issue here? If you can answer that one folks, maybe there is a brain out there.
However, what is really reprehensible, is Gingrich and Santorum making such a fuss over Romney's 2011 tax return. Santorum still hasn't released his and Gingrich only got around to that yesterday. This seems a little too much like "Do as I say... Not as I do" to me!
So what if Romney is a self made financially successful businessman. Since when is it been a crime in America to work hard, make good investments... and make a profit. Last time I checked that was called "Working for the American Dream." Romney came from a poor, immigrant family. He didn't inherit anything. Everything he has is from a lifetime of hard work. Additionally People, Romney didn't say is is paying 15% in taxes; he said he isn't sure but he just guessed at his 2011 tax rate. Bottom line, each year your tax rate changes based on earning and deductions. Romney won't truly know his tax rate until 2011 return is completed.. Just like everyone else in America! Given his earning it will probably play out around 18-22%. Which is still much higher than most of middle America!
However, what I truly fascinating is Gingrich's return shows him to be one of the wealthiest men in America. Romney's wealth isn't near Gingrich's. So, this appears to be a Newt Gingrich double standard to me!
No, this whole "prematurely release your tax return" just fodder for the other GOP candidates and desperate Democrats to blow out of proportion... Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum need to keep their eye on the ball... Don't destroy the GOP out of vindictive Romney jealousy and "Beat Barack Obama"....... Focus, people...Focus.....
Barnum and Bailey had a saying for anyone who takes interest in one of these clowns. There's a sucker born every minute.
Let me get this straight now... If Newt gets a pass from the Republicans for Adultery (twice over and probably more) because the main focus now and what seems to be more important would be our debt problems according to them all (flip flopping to save face)... Does this mean we get a pass when it comes to a Women's Right to Choose and Gay Rights? Aren't they all based on morals, the Bible and God?
@Scott,
Yeah, just like Bill Clinton??
lynseypug and pat, sure seems like the media wants to ignore paul doesn't it? The moderator was loudly booed when he addressed everyone but paul on an issue. the moderator looked like the proverbial deer caught in the headlights until he included paul.
Overall I would say that anyone of them would give obama a hard debate, after all obama has to debate his policies, not some nebulas "hope and change".
Dano-3878024: There is a difference between Bill Clinton and Newt. Clinton didn't run on Family Values, He didn't run on Morals, God, the Bible or the Christian way. Clinton ran on PLANS... and he accomplished them twice over. So, Yes, there is a difference.
When these candidates started this thing it was strongly based on your morals, the Bible and God and they wanted you to believe they were the ones to fill those shoes... Now, that the truth is out... and they have made their beds... they can all lie in them. Obama 2012.
This group is becoming very nauseating. I don't know how much more we can take of Mr. Hot Crotch Gingrich the pompous pig and Mitt the lying geek.
Oskar1391552, cleaning your ears might help when you listen to what these cornballs have to say. Besides Nasty Newt, Santorum also directly called out the BLACK people.
@Irespond
"And MItt...Oh Mitt! What does he know? He is a Mormon, and Mormons still do not practice birth control. They do not know anything about poor people, because most of the Mormon church are "clean cut" Americans, especially him and his 5 sons. ...Just look at those annoying youngsters knocking on your door, riding their bicycles and wearing a suit. When have you seen a poor one, riding a worn out bicycle or without a tie? and when you open the door, they want to convince you to turn into a Mormon....."
Everything you have said after that just lost ALL value and credibility. You know less than nothing about Mormons. And to oppose someone because of their religion? Seriously? If that's the worst you can say about Mitt Romney, I just might vote Republican after all. You really have just shown what an absolute low life you really are. Before you start spouting lies, and making assumptions about people you don't even know the first thing about, perhaps you should try talking to one. You are just as bad as Newt stereotyping blacks. And here are the FACTS you don't know.
You can say what you want about Mitt. He's a flip flopper, he's elitist, he's business first, poeple last. If all you have is Trolling about his religion though, go crawl back under your rock.
Interesting how times change, when Speaker Gingrich stood up and said that due to Clinton's infidelity, "he didn't have the moral authority to be President of the United States". And Mitt, he does operate like a "well lubricated weather vane". Amazing how some America's on the right don't recognize demogoguary when they see it.
How sad, though it does show how pathetically partisan the main stream media outlets have become, but, it is par for the propaganda course they have chosen to follow and by so doing, have disgraced and delegitimized themselves as actual news organizations. The "media" have for too long, ignored documented incidents of rape, sexual assault , drug use, corruption, and all manner of criminal activity by Democrats and Democratic candidates because they were, after all, "their" guys,(just MOVE ON, I believe is their, standard, catch all excuse, for failing to do their jobs), but have taken every opportunity to immediately jump all over and exploit to the fullest, even the slightest of unfounded allegations against any and all of the Republicans, and if there is any doubt why the media and the Democrats were so desperate to get Herman Cain , a competent and popular black Republican candidate , out of the race, it is now clear, it was so they could begin their sleazy, reprehensible, race baiting attacks against Republican candidates, which was impossible to do as long as a popular, competent, self made, successful, black, capitalist, candidate was still in the race,(shows You how much They really care about blacks in general does it not?),no, it is all about the radical progressives and their socialist agenda of trying to basically destroy capitalism and transform the United States into a European style Socialist welfare state, controlled by a ruling elite,(them of course). If they were real news organizations, and had only spent one tenth of the time exploring Obama's and other progressive's backgrounds as they have the Republican candidates, We might not be in the terrible mess We are in today. Hopefully, most Americans are now waking up, and realize what is going on, as evidenced by the decreasing number of registered Democrats and the increasing numbers of independents fleeing from what is left of the old Democratic, new Socialist Progressive party.
The ONLY and Biggest thing Gingrich has going for him is; in Congress he was basically resposibile for pulling the GOP together and passing the LAST "BALANCED BUDGET". Of course, remember THAT LAST ONE was under a DEMOCRATIC president, Bill Clinton?.? "AX THE TAX CODE" = "NO DEFICIT"
donbcms...
Which goes to show that Republicans are not the problem. Bill Clinton knew he had to go along, this (arrogant) POTUS just told us to sit in the back of the bus.
Old Fat guy....
What's wrong with the back of the bus? at least you're on the bus LOL.... OOOOOO the black man told me to get to the back of the bus !!!! you people are so funny...this is where I come to get my laughter for the day. Thank you so very much.
@ aggie post 1.49 ...sorry to burst that bubble but that is just my opinion of what I saw and I crack-up laughing every-time I watch it because he's all wild eyed and it looks like his head is about to explode. The expression on his face was simply priceless. He knew the question was gonna come...please if it were the other way around you'd be on here regurgitating and spewing just like I am with glee. Newt is nothing but a pig a lying pig who wouldn't even help his first wife with child support for his two lovely daughters whom by the way he sends in to tell ABC not to air his dirty/ filthy laundry...why didn't he do it himself? he called his ex-wife a liar after saying he wouldn't go negative. John King was doing his job as a reporter...Newt is famous for blaming everyone/everything else....Oh yeah and God forgave him. Please not everyone is that dense to believe this thug.
All Newt, Santorum, or Paul have to do is point out that Romney and Bain Capital using tax shelters in the Cayman Islands.
Romney claims there is no tax benefit, but he and Bain Capital refuse to open up their books.
In all honesty there probably isn't much of a tax benefit unless Romney is not reporting the overseas investments.
But does that matter? The fact that Romney won't follow his own father's example and release the returns will, rightly or wrongly, make people think he is hiding something. And when the media thinks a high profile politician is hiding something the media has to (metaphorically) call the hotline about erections that last longer than four hours.
Interesting. So Dan, tell us - did Mitt break the law? Did he fail to pay income taxes owed? And if not, and this activity is perfectly legal, where's the beef?
This if an interesting development, the tax haven investment story. What is shows just how bad our Federal banking regulations are and how badly they hurt the economy.
But hey, Obama certainly has no issue with Bain - he received more in contributions from it htan any other candidate and just appoint a former Bain executive as the head of the OMB.
Well Spanky, once slavery was legal too, and that was clearly immoral. Once women didn't have the right to vote, and once voters had to pass literacy tests to vote, at least certain voters, and that was clearly immoral. So what's your beef?
As I just observed on another thread, a good lawyer knows you can pass a law that makes anything legal. That doesn't necessarily make it right.
If California passed a law tomorrow making murder legal, and someone used the opportunity to kill your family member, what would you say about that?
Where's the beef? You know perfectly well where's the beef.
It appears Mitt Romney is too successful and too rich to be the leader of the country and the leader of the free world. Guess we better stick with the loser we got now.
It appears Mitt Romney is too phony and too much of a compulsive liar to be the leader of the country and the leader of the free world. Guess we better stick with the winner we got now.
There, I fixed it for you.
@ JoAyna--
Unless you really don't care HOW he got rich, then I guess you're right.
But then again, I should remember who I'm talking to, JoAyna.
"Where's the Beef?" Should simple enough for your big brained legal mind Spank..The beef is in the unfair tax code that favors "investment income" (wink wink) over "earned" income. Guys like you and Romney value cleverness over creativity and INVENTION. Riddle me this Spankster: Who do you believe has created more jobs? Donald Trump, Richard Branson, or Mitt Romney? Just askin!
Psssst...How many jobs did you create today Spank?...Lots I guess from writing all those leases or chasing those ambulances and supporting the gubment court system right?
If you Liberals have a problem with how Romney managed his funds, if he managed them illegally or unethically, then please, bring them forth. Or you can just sneak around and make up stupid scenarios like AM did and attempt to make up some moral equivalences between your make believe world and the real world of US tax policy.
Apparently between your ears.
Spanky, don't bother...to the lefty libs its ok that Tim Geitner didn't pay $34,000 in taxes and is the secretary of the treasury. Can't wait till tonight's debate...thought the last one was great. Who are the Moderators?
Good Golly Anna Molly.
1. It is clear from a plain reading of the tax code that the intention is for all taxpayers to minimize their taxes. I do it. You do it. We all do it, especially the really rich. The goal is to pay as little taxes as possible. In fact it say that in the code itself.
2. You seem to think that this aspect of Mitt's financial and tax planning got him off the hook for taxes. Investment in these types of funds still subject an American taxpayer to US taxes. The difference in my experience is with the investment fees and the ability to attract foreigners.
3. AM you hypothetical is kinda weak. Comeon, you can do better than that.
Let's face it the super rich are different. Have any of you run out of local banks to deposit money - cause the FDIC only insures so much? Great problem to have, but still a real problem.
I suspect that Mitt has no control over this - it's either in a huge trust managed by a trustee [which are often blind] or managed by some super fat cat investor(s).
So again, gang - anything illegal? Nope. If you are pissed take it up with the geniuses that write the code.
Say, how is Rangel doing these days? And just think - Rangle and Geintner are flat out tax cheats.
Mitt is just a good planner.
Sorry, just no beef here, unless you just don't understand.
Oh, you must be talking about Jeffrey Zients. Yes, he's been named new head of OMB. No, he never worked for Bain Capital. No, he worked for Bain & Company. These are two completely separate corporate entities.
Hey Torpedo [JFK - this is fun] - I choose Steve Jobs.
Now granted most of the jobs are in China, and something like $56 billion is 'parked in offshore' banks, but you libbies loves you the shiny apple products.
And seriously - you libbies pissed that Obama has accepted millions of dollars directly from Bain AND hired a Bain guy as head of the OMB?
Come on - you really, really hate that, don't ya?
So Bain is bad, unless OBama ordains parts are good.
Such high standards you all have. Fantastic.
Via TPM: as the Wall Street Journal reports, Romney also has an unusually large amount of money saved in his tax-deferred individual retirement account (IRA). And that could be the case because the IRA invested in offshore Bain funds — investments that would have triggered a significant, but obscure, tax if the funds had been located in the U.S. And as the Journal reports, based on an interview with a different tax expert, “there are some tax differences achieved by having an IRA invest through offshore funds, adding that the strategy doesn’t eliminate taxes owed, but defers them.”
Chances are Romney is playing within the rules, but we won't know that until we see the tax returns. Heck, if Romney were willing to cheat on his taxes we probably wouldn't find out even if he released his returns.
"Apparently between your ears." (Said JA Smiffy).
Which is where you usually have your ankles planted taking in the conservative line!
JoAyna -- I have to hand you one thing. You always deliver as advertised.
If you can't recognize the simple difference between legal and moral, then you and Midas -- oops, I mean Spanky -- fully deserve each other.
I truly hope you two are happy in your little Rumpelstiltskin world. Just don't try to force your phony baloney "capitalist" values on the rest of us.
Believe it or not, some of us like OUR believe world where people do what's right, instead of what's merely expedient. I'll take those people any six days of the week over all of Mitt's dirty money.
Show me HOW it's weak, Mr. Big Talk. Put your lofty legal mind where your mouth is for a change.
Take any subject you like, and any law that you like, and admit that laws are perfectly subject to manipulation and corruption.
As for Charlie Rangel and Tim Geithner, don't try to change the subject. You know darn well that I won't defend either of them. But Congress makes the rules, and the fact that they make the rules corrupt, especially as applied to themselves, is EXACTLY my point.
But thanks for playing. You can pick up your consolation prize on the way out.
Poor Poor Spanky..."OUT of Order." Nice try at deflection...Sorry bud but you come across as just another sorry paper pusher. Try to stay on point next time! you and Joanana need to get a room!
Come on Noid - you are better than silly games.
Bain & Co. = the 'seperate' company that Mitt worked at in the late '70, and was the CEO of in the early '90s.
Beef - just the way I like it.
nisl - Mitt has an army doing his taxes. I have no doubt that if there were an issue and the IRS pushed it, the IRS would get creamed.
But this is a great deucation for the masses, and is why rich folks control the world.
Ah, come on Anna Molly - why so pissy today? Sheesh, it seems like just a couple of weaks ago you said you'd never talk to me again.
You still still working for the man?
So what did Romney not do that's right Annie? Dirty money? Wow. Now you've gone into The Feisty Zone. You make accusations like they are facts. Please explain the morality of that for us, because you sure run hard with the innuendo.
Morals? You? Please.
Yeah Torpedo, just another paper pusher.
You know, like Barack Obama, Michele Obama, Mitt, and of course your lovely wife.
So, how's her job working for the evil insurance company going? Deny anyone coverage today? Pulling benefits?
You know - all that good work the folks that work for insurance companies get to do.
AM - Midas? Naw - you are the big time corporate attorney pulling down $250-$300 per hour.
nisl - Mitt has an army doing his taxes. I have no doubt that if there were an issue and the IRS pushed it, the IRS would get creamed
Well yeah, of course. His tax return is probably more than 200 pages long and the IRS doesn't pay enough to get the best recruits. Beating the IRS is not as hard as it used to be; the entire agency is grossly underfunded.
But that is entirely irrelevant. Nobody has any evidence, or even any reason to believe, that Romney cheated on his taxes. That is not the point. The point, for me, is not IF Romney followed the rules, but that the rules are geared towards letting people like Romney pay a rate lower than someone who earns in a year less than Romney earns in an hour.
Come to think of it, I did. I had some vague hope you might have changed, or at least that you might try to be civil and make an argument on point for once, instead of resorting to cheap personal insults, like JoAyna.
But don't worry. I won't be making that same mistake again.
Disagreement is evidently not permitted in your little world. Takes valuable time away from spinning straw into gold, doesn't it? I hope it keeps you warm at night.
I work for my clients, as required by the ethical rules. You?
What silly game? You're aware, of course, why they share the common name.
...and, obviously, you are aware that they are not in the same business.
No, young man, I'm afraid if you're going to make that your talking point you need to be clear on the difference between Bain & Company and Bain Capital.
Seriously Anna? Was it Moral for Obama to buy Rezko's property knowing the FBI was investigating him. Of course not... The Candy Man Can do no wrong.
That's what you be Spank, a paper pusher who contributes nothing. Just another legal leach..
The Pres was a "community organizer" doncha know. assisting the impoverished and disenfranchised...Much prefer his occupation to yours..After all someone has to advocate for them since they don't have the bucks to hire the likes of you and your bottom feeding divorce lawyer wifey
Actually my wifey does not practice law anymore and has not for years. She uses her legal training to She advocate for her insured..You got a problem with that or don't you like insurance companies? I'll bet you like them a lot when your house gets burglarized.
Like I said before why don't you and JA Smiffy get a room?
I have to give you credit Anna Molly, for attempting to enlighten, Sniffy on morality!
You know what they say about leading a horse to water and all...
Put a glass of cheap whisky in front of old Sniffy & she's all OVER it!
Sadly you never change AM. You appear the same bitter person day in and day out. When someone challenges your leftwing beliefs, you get stone cold ugly. You have this nose in the air persona that you think you're better than everyone else and only you have the correct answers. It's really painful to watch you struggle when someone challenges you.
That's the truth nisl, but the again we all know who writes the rules. And how rich they are. But then again - it has always been good to be the king.
Noid? Mitt worked for both. You get that, right?
Maybe you do not. Huh. So Niod - to be clear - Bain & Co is good, but Bain Capital is bad?
Now why would that be, and what about the money Obama took from Bain Capital? Green is green, eh?
AM - just trying to get you back on track, you know to walk your talk. And easy there Hoss - I got you - you represent you clients, so long as they compensate you at you reasonable hourly rate of $250 - $300 per hour.
Income equality here you come. I wonder AM, just how many hours does someone like Amy have to work to make a fat stack of Cash like $250?
Occupy Anna Molly's office?
Sure she does Torpedo.
She works for an insurance company, but advocates for the insured.
Because paying claims is what insurance companies are all about, and is how they make and maintain all that money.
That is a good one.
All Romney should have to do is point out the Blingrich Ethics violation, kicked out of Congress, lobbying and influence peddling that helped the housing crisis, and the unethical treatment of his family. But the billybobs and knuckledraggers don't want to hear that - it's not part of their vetting process for president!!! ............lol
All Romney should have to do is point out the Blingrich Ethics violation, kicked out of Congress, lobbying and influence peddling that helped the housing crisis, and the unethical treatment of his family.
As many of our rightwing posters showed us yesterday Republicans don't care about those things unless they are done by Democrats.
The next time you see a conservative talking head on TV thrashing and wailing about the misdeeds of liberals your automatic assumption should be they are faking.
In the world of logic, this is called the strawman. You attribute to me a position I never took and then attack me for it.
Sorry. No play.
Yet another straw man. I'm not off track. I'm not talking about income equality, Spanky. I'm talking about playing by the rules and not raping and pillaging everything in sight just because you can, which the facts now clearly reveal was Romney's and Bain's modus operandi (feel free to look it up).
And don't make me laugh. My hourly rate is rather at the low end of what shysters like you charge on the West Coast.
You can't even fund your happy hour, much less that big boat and those several houses, on what I make every year.
Once again, you don't disappoint. In fact, you never pass up the opportunity to deliver the knife, instead of responding to the argument that was made.
Does it ever occur to you that you do this because you know you don't have the correct answers?
Your corporate paymasters must be so proud. Obviously, THEY know "stone cold ugly" when they see it. I hope it pays well.
It just never ends. "Raping and pillaging"? What, you work on the side at Medieval Times?
Quit with innuendo and character assassination for one minute and name one rule that Bain didn't follow Annie.
Yeah, I looked up Bain's charter Annie. It says "We're out to rape and pillage". They also bought a drawbridge company, not sure if that's in any way related to their charter.
Ahh, looky here - Anna Molly's best and only response to the fact that she pulls down $250-$300 per hour is - but, but, you must make more.
Here the deal, AM - OWS wants more. You have more. And $250 as the low end? Nope. $15 per hour is low end, just ask Amy.
Occupy Anna Molly's office!
And hell yeah, happy hour is in about an hour.
Yes, I am aware that Romney formed Bain Capital with two fellow partners from Bain & Company as a separate venture.
Since you're so smart, you go ahead and tell me what Bain and Company does and how it differs from what Bain Capital does.
...but, then again, I forgot that Conservatives thought it would be a great idea to boycott products of H.J. Heinz back in 2004 simply because John Kerry's wife was married to Henry John Heinz, III.
[I work for my clients, as required by the ethical rules. You?]
And Spanky? Well...not so much...at least according to the State Bar of California...you know...the parts about rules and ethics.
Besides being a real estate lawyer, it seems Spanky also represents "down on their luck" people who owe back taxes, and pleads down their tax debt for them...it's legal alright...but not very ethical, especially since he charges a fee, and these "freeloaders" get to keep their "stash".
And who pays? Everybody. Ethically and morally, it doesn't matter if it's legal or not...
Oh, and I've often wondered how hard it would be for the Bar Association to subpoena an IP address, especially where fraud might be involved...but, alas...some people just never learn.
Governor Romney criticized those who used offshore tax havens.
It's a shame that some repeatedly say it's ok for Romney to say one thing and do another.
Beware, Romney's tax plan calls for all capital gains to be eliminated. That means Romney will have a 0% tax rate, while working Americans (miltary, teachers, nurses, doctors, firefighters, pilots, street cleaners, janitors, etc) will continue paying taxes.
"Income Tax" is much different than "Capital Gains" tax. THAT is where the wealthy get hammered. Income tax is assessed, based on the income made from the job at which you work. Some wealthy people don't pay much "income tax", because they don't have a weekly paycheck being signed by an employer. They pay their taxes on their investments, businesses, etc., and those taxes and rates are astronomical in comparison to yours or mine. But I'm sure all the tax experts here are well aware of this. One day, if the government declares a "bank holiday" and decides to take your money because it needs the cash (as they did decades ago), you'll be out of luck. Mitt, on the other hand, won't be totally wiped out....because of the money in the Caymans. Don't be hatin' because he's a smarter investor than you....if you want to put your many there, you can.
Hey NewtISaPIG - what happened to those photographs some one sent to you showing Callista gettin' porked by Perry? That was all about Newt's open marriage / porkin' concepts wasn't it?
FYI: Look up Mitt Romney's being on the audit committee of Marriott corporation while it was engaging in fraudulent activity which ripped off many smaller hotel owners.
THIEF, LIAR, FRAUD, CHEAT, ADULTEROR, MISOGYNIST, HATER ... not what I want in my President.
Ron Paul 2012.
Wayne, by todays standards you are right about slavery, womens votes and literacy requirements. In the times that they were in effect they were accepted practises. The bottomline now is why doesn't congress or obama push for tax reform now? Interesting on how obama said that the US tax codes were over 5 ft in heighth, yet he doesn't want reforms to be made.
LMAO! Nisl nailed it. FR libs need to see romneys tax returns to see if mitt did anything illegal...
Funny nisl, I am sure that all FR libs are tax law experts, NOT! Why not have obama request that his IRS audit mitt?
Raping and pillaging in the old sense of the word( nothing sexual here pull your toungues back in) is a really good definition of the whole housing/ foeclosure mess.
When does the makeup sex start! You know thats always the best!
Anna - morals are an individuals conception and laws define what is legal or illegal in a given society either by a consensus, bureacratic minority or a dictatorship. The court system will uphold the laws by the manner they are defined in legalize, not by personal moral belief. I feel sorry for you that you think it should be otherwise and are unwilling to change the laws to reflect your personal moral agenda. I find it interesting that morals are based more on emotion and that laws are not. At least not until the attorneys argue the case to a jury.
Oh my - my little monkey Mickey is back to his old games.
Golly Mickey I don't know if this is just silly fun, or more empty threats from an impotent little guy.
Wait, sure I do - it's both.
Fraud? Oh noooooooooo!
By all means little buddy 'alert the bar.'
Should be fun.
Where did that Romney "adulterer" come from? Are we just making stuff up now? Come on.
I think Spanky is an accountant, with a modest home and a sweet family he loves and provides for. I think he knows what it is to have been poor. I think he has struggled to get where he is. I think he was raised by a single mother who taught her children that it is better to work than to live off the welfare money taken from people who work. I think he hopes to aspire to the dream that was once America.....that anyone that works hard can achieve financial freedom. I think he's right. Just guessing.
Spanky - I guess we'll see if American agrees with you now won't we?
And I think you need some serious medication darling!
Sucks to be a 'newbie'!
[Oh my - my little monkey Mickey is back to his old games.]
Ahhh, but see...it's not a game...but it is what it is...I can't change that. Only you can, Spanky.
Threats? Really? Dare to dream, Spanky...dare to dream.
But you just keep rollin' those dice.
Sleep tight, counselor...
I have been watching local and international news lately. It's all about our coming election. The Japanese call it our coming erection. With this bunch on the right and Obama on the left------ELECTION or ERECTION.
either way we are screwed.
And Fiesty it would really suck to be you.
I agree with Dan, while other posters have correctly pointed out it may be legal, that does not matter.
Every time Romney refuses to open the books he is looked at with more suspicion.
IMO Romney is toast now either way.
You shouldn't talk bad about pigs. They have feelings too ya know. Now Newt, that's a whole nother subject. I still scared that after these obvious waste of jizz stop nuking each other. the Atomic Cockroach from Alaska will scurry out from under the kitchen stove.
WOW! Doesn't take long for the resident chihuahua redhead from roselle to drag her azz across a newbies post. Bet fiesty is a wonderful welcome to our neighborhood hostess in roselle. LMAO!
And I thought liberals wanted to promote fairness to all, apparently only if they have their own way right?
Can I assume that everyone whos defending Romney because he "didnt do anything illegal" also supports a womans right to a safe LEGAL abortion?
Sadly, without Rick Perry, the probability of a political pile up of NASCAR proportions in tonight's debate has gone down.
Still, it should be interesting to see Newt v Romney go head to head. I loathe Newt Gingrich, he is an amoral hypocrite, but I don't underestimate him. He is very good at slinging muck.
The big question for me is will anyone bring up Romney's program as governor that BOUGHT CARS FOR PEOPLE ON WELFARE. I would think that relevant to today's Republicans.
Hypocritical "double standard" GOP Teapublicans!
At the opening bell,
Come on... what did YOU do to President Clinton back in the 90's Newter? You wern't appalled at asking a sitting President about details of HIS sex life, so don't be appalled when you are asked.
YOU and your GOP buddies set the precedent with Clinton, so DON'T WHINE AND COMPLAIN WHEN YOU GET THE SAME TREATMENT! If its good for the goose...
Suck it up, face the music, and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!
(And the really sad part is that Mittens is the BIG flip-flopper.)
Ok... I am a redhead... but not "feisty" ... not very "feisty" but am definitely real.
GOPpers... please stop giving Mr. Obama reasons to discredit you..... Gingrich? i may be wrong... but I have decided to vote, and hope many others do, for Mr. Romney. Why? he does not, actually,attack the rest of you. I like his standards..
Please.... "Disagree if you must; but, try not to be disagreeable."
HeartsQuest
That was one of the nicest post I have read here...I like your style, mine needs a bit of improvement okay lots at times. But I can't vote for Mitt, well because I don't believe him. And I think he's a good guy and all like what you said. But to me what he did with Bain was pretty much not so nice. You know people loosing their pensions and all. Maybe it was legal what they did, but when it comes to ruining other human beings lives or hurting others than call me a Lib.
"Ladies and gentlemen, for this tag team match we present in the blue corner, WILLARD 'MITT' ROMNEY!!!"
"...and in the othe three corners, NOT-ROMNEY!!!"
"Lets get ready to rumble!!!!"
8-5 Newton
20-1 for a KNOCKOUT...
What is Mitt's "margin of error" tonight?
Can he keep his cool?
After rising and falling, you have to believe that Newton feels this is his moment and he will do EVERYTHING in his rhetorical power to make sure he doesn't blow it again. A kick azz performance tonight can be; factoring in Mitt's non victory in Iowa (not to forget the Cayman Islands, which are lovely btw) and Gov. Perry's dropout and endorsement, a true game-changer, and not just in SC.
Newton can WIN SC. To all who are gloating over their imaginary November "landslides" look what can happen in a WEEK!...
More likely that Santorum will win SC, as he can point to his good showing in New Hampshire and excellent showing (maybe even winning?) in Iowa, and the fact that he hasn't got all the baggage that Newt has.
Of course, Santorum is a bit too sanctimonious and Catholic for the evangelicals, and some of them actually admire the sexual prowess of Newt and adore the way Newt fights dirty. The results are going to be close, there might be enough division of votes between Santorum and Newt for Romney to eke out a narrow win.
Ron Paul will still get votes from his enthusiastic followers, never enough to win but enough to keep going.
CM-
Here's a really cool site that has actual up to the minute polling numbers that allow you to make an informed prediction, rather than the one you have imagined here. Santorum will finish with less than TEN percent this Saturday and be out of the race by MONDAY.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/sc/south_carolina_republican_presidential_primary-1590.html
Santorum is polling between 11-14% and he won't get that in the vote on Saturday...
CM - Not certain I'd call 4th place a "good showing" in NH.
Danger, Mitt got piled on faster than he could dig out. This could be the end of Romney.
If he does fall, he will fall very fast.
look at these guys: THE Gangrene, Vomitorium and, Of Course, Mince 'EmRommel. They are the RepublicanCrimeCartelSoldiers and are waiting to take away Social Security, Medicare, with Republican "medical Vouchers" in other words: Sick??...die quick!!! Does Anybody Know that EACH of these Soldiers Worked Very hard to Vote and Prevent An AmericanNationalHealthCareSystem from being Started in our country like other "Civilized" Countries: England, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Israel, Which ByTheWay Has One Of The BEST NationalHealthCareSystems:Health-TheBody,mental-TheMind AND Full Dental!!!!!! And it is paid For By WE American TaxPayers Who, Thanks to these RepublicanCriminals, Do NOT have our OWN HealthCareSystem. YES!!!! That's Right!!!! These RepublicanCrimeCartelSoldiers Voted in "Congress" to have NO HealthCare System Here so their InsuranceCompanyMasters can make a KILLING In US and Yet WE Pay for Israel's!!! Well Good for Israel AND We Want the Same GRRRRREATE! System...
And Some of you would vote for these guys???!!!!???? Rommel wants a war with iran. That is all we need, another expensive war which WE Can't afford.
HIGH-Stakes DEBATE
I'll bet you Willard's $10,000
President Obama wins the debate.
Obama 2012
Willard will not even be in the debate:)
Yes,
Willard Mitt Romney will be there.
I'll bet you a Gazillion dollars Newt cleans Obozo's clock in their 3 or more debates this fall. Obozo is an idiot defendign a terrible record Newton will hang around his scrawny socialist neck.
YOU LOSE!
Chris
Dream on.....now take your TEA dear and go to bed.
So looking forward to a possible breaking of the South Carolina run of luck in choosing the candidate that is the ultimate nominee. Go Rick! Get out in front of the neanderthals!
The plot thickens as icky Ricky may have won in Ioway after all and the other Rick (James Rick Perry), slick Rick bows out and nasty Newt steps up his attacks we find our boy Willard the wonderful temporarily stunned by the attacks from Newt and Ricky. Then there is the Doc the old one who thinks he is Yoda and has really, screwy ideas but some loyal followers who will sadly be disappointed again. They'll claw, kick, smirk, skreech, kick and come up with some really stupid statements that will be entertaining to those viewing the fight. Palmetto voters have picked the eventual nominee in the past so who will it be Palmettos, who will it be?
Jeez, Mitt and Newt will just blabber back and forth "yes I am an immoral greed driven bastard who is devoid of even a shred of integrity, but he's worser", Ron Paul as usual will be given about 15 seconds total time to speak, and Santoram will drag the bible he has hidden under his sweater vest out and break into a sermon about the inherent evils of condom use and florinated water. Should be a hell of a show.
Mitt Romney is a good example of who the republicans love to call "job creaters". it is people exactly like Mitt Romney that republicans want to give more tax breaks too so that they can create jobs.
Tell me this Spanky and JoannaSmith: If Mitt Romney has a bucket load of money sitting in bank accounts on the Cayman islands............ what would happen to the extra money that he would rake in with additional tax cuts? If you are too dumb to work it out, let me tell you....... he would add a few more buckets full of money OFF_SHORE.
And have you read Mitt's 59 step plan.................... it gives himself and his rich buddies more tax breaks.
But go ahead Spanky and JoannaSmith and keep defending the likes of old Mitt. After all, you might win the lottery tomorrow and then you too can open an off-shore account. Hate to think of yourselves getting rich and then have to pay 32% tax rate.
Everybody sounds jealous. Do ANY of you pay more to the IRS than you have to? I don't and I'm not ashamed to say it. I pay my taxes unlike Warren Buffet and a lot of other rich dems. I pay them in full and I pay them on time. I follow that tax codes. I'm sure Romney follows the tax codes too. Now let's look at something else.....I want to see ALL THE CANDIDATES CHARITABLE DONATIONS.....EVERYONE'S...OBAMA TOO. Then we'll talk about morals.
"It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Mitt Romney wants this more than any of you guys, and he, as always, will do whatever it takes to get the votes. And if that means coming up with a tax plan small enough that you can write it under your eye, then that's what he will do."
Bill M.
Every time there is a debate Gingrich shoots up in the polls because he articulates conservativism better than the other candidates. This is why Limbaugh, despite his repeated denials, has gone ga-ga over Gingrich. The problem: Gingrich isn't a conservative.
Santicmoniom kneecaps Newter who emasculates Landslide Willard but Santicmoniom is garroted by Congressman Paul.
The title of this melodrama is "Last Man Standing" The dust clears and Congressman Paul is the GOP nominee.
Why is Willard Romney hiding money in the Cayman islands?
He's hiding it from Obama. I think he's worried Obama will give it to another failed Solar Company.
Or maybe its more under the table dealings, as per usual with him.
So Romney doesn't have to invest it in US and give jobs. He likes to fire people! President Obama is good at foreign policy, Bush caused the economic meltdown. Obama bringing back jobs for poor and middle class, for affordable healthcare, education, the environment, and can identify with the 99%, the others can't. They don't know what its like to struggle. They only know how to be a bunch of jokers. They put on one big show, and tonight will be another Act. I know their supporters are ashamed no matter how they pretend otherwise. Let's face it the republicans are clowns and I am enjoying the comedy of them.
He found out that is where Obama is hiding his birth certificate. He figured it was the safest place.
Why is Willard Romney hiding money in the Cayman islands
That is where Banks will give you the ability to put money free of taxes. They have very lax laws about that. That way they do not pay taxes, and the government -That Government that Mitt Romney is always bad-mouthing- does not have the taxes to pay Social Security and Medicaid.
But Heck! He keeps flapping his ugly jaw about President Obama. I wish he could put a sock on it. He makes me SICK!
If we all seem to know about it, then I suppose it isn't really hidden, but perhaps placed in a safer place that isn't so rife with socialist fervor to give it away to everyone, and their uncle, who happen to back the proper political candidate at that moment.
MIAMI — Off a gritty bend in the Miami River, a few miles from a warehouse where he recently touted his job-creation plans, there's a complex of buildings that bear witness to a time when Mitt Romney's private equity firm laid off hundreds of workers, shuttered a profitable factory and made out with hundreds of millions of dollars.
It started in 1995, when Romney's Bain Capital targeted the company that became Dade Behring, which made blood-testing machines and performed animal research at its Miami campus.
Bain borrowed heavily to buy the company and closed a factory in Puerto Rico to improve the bottom line. About 400 lost jobs there. Then in 1997, Bain shuttered Dade Behring's Miami operations, costing another 850 jobs and a $30 million payroll in the community.
Before growing debt consumed the company, Bain executed its exit strategy and made $242 million.
"What bothers me most is that Romney's campaign says he was a creator of jobs," said Cindy Hewitt, a Miami resident who was a human resources manager at Dade Behring. "I didn't see that in any way, shape or form. He didn't create jobs. He slashed and burned jobs."
Romney's time at Bain is the backbone of his run for president, the business experience he says is severely lacking in President Barack Obama. He portrays himself as a turnaround specialist, taking poor-performing companies and making them efficient and profitable. He claims to have created 100,000 jobs.
But the Miami experience illustrates the other side of Romney's line of work, a messier reality that has exposed Romney to attacks from rivals seeking the Republican nomination.
Even comedian Stephen Colbert has gotten in the act, running a South Carolina ad that shows a cartoon Romney feeding Dade Behring into a wood-chipper that spits out money.
Next week, the GOP campaign shifts to Florida and already Romney is on the defensive with a TV ad that touts his Bain successes while condemning attacks on the "free market." GOP rival Newt Gingrich says Romney "looted" companies like Dade Behring.
"The Bain model," Gingrich said in a debate Monday night, "is to go in at a very low price, borrow an immense amount of money, pay Bain an immense amount of money and leave. I'll let you decide if that's really good capitalism. I think that's exploitation."
• • •
Romney helped found Bain Capital in 1984 as a spinoff of Bain & Company of Boston. In 1994, Bain borrowed heavily to invest in the buyout of medical companies that would become Dade International, which had roots in Florida.
In 1997, Bain acquired two other companies and formed Dade Behring, which was based in Deerfield, Ill. The company flourished, raking in millions in sales.
Yet debt was soaring. Under Bain's direction the company squeezed costs through plant consolidations, layoffs and reduced employee benefits. In November 1997, Dade Behring announced it would close two Miami facilities, which employed 850 people, and consolidate operations in Delaware and Germany.
Romney's campaign did not directly address Dade Behring for this story, saying "Bain Capital invested in many businesses; while not every business was successful, the firm had an overall track record and created jobs with well-known companies like Staples, Dominos, and Sports Authority."
Debate on the campaign trail has cast light on the lucrative private equity business. Firms like Bain typically heavily leverage acquisitions, look for efficiencies then sell the property for a windfall.
Dade Behring was a textbook case for Bain, a clear example of the "golden eggs" Romney once said would be hard to give up when he left to run the 2002 Olympic Games in Salt Lake City.
A prospectus for Bain noted that from 1984 to 1999 its "five private equity funds achieved an average annualized rate of return of approximately 178 percent per annum on all realized investments, and 88 percent per annum on all investments."
Bain borrowed most of the money to acquire Dade and rewarded itself with $100 million in fees for buying and running the company, according to the New York Times. The $242 million payday for Bain came in 1999, when Dade Behring was forced to buy out half its shares, the newspaper reported.
To make the payment Dade had to borrow more, contributing to its shaky status. The deal came a few months after Romney left Bain, though he still had a stake.
"I hear Mr. Romney talk about creating jobs, what he really did was create wealth for investors," said Michael Rumbin, a former Dade vice president in Illinois who had to fire 25 to 35 people before his own job was eliminated. "No one ever came to me and said, 'How do we create more jobs?' "
Saddled with $1.5 billion in debt and facing higher interest rates, Dade Behring entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2002.
Creditors accused Bain and other investors, which included Goldman Sachs, of "unjust enrichment," according to SEC filings. That was not proven, though Bain surrendered the rest of its stake. Dade Behring emerged from bankruptcy and in 2007 was purchased by Siemens for $7 billion.
A success story or not? That is the debate Romney's tenure at Bain has stirred.
• • •
Romney has acknowledged some of the ill consequences of his enterprise but maintains focus on his success at Bain in trying to draw contrasts with Obama.
"He never had a job. I think to create jobs it helps to have had a job," Romney said in November at the Conchita food factory in Miami, a backdrop chosen to affirm his jobs mind-set. Indeed, it later was used in a Spanish language TV ad in Florida.
In some cases, attacks on Bain have fallen flat. A Panhandle company was featured in a 28-minute video purchased by a pro-Gingrich political committee calling attention to Bain. But the layoffs at that plant occurred after Bain sold the company.
"We felt very used," said Mike Baxley, a former employee at the washing machine business who said the videomaker never mentioned Bain and portrayed it as a film on plant closings. Baxley said his story was uplifting because he helped form his own company, Washers-R-Us.
"I wasn't a Romney fan to start with, but I've been watching the debates and everything since and starting to get a better feel for him than I am the other ones," said Baxley, 41.
"They are trying to use his record as something that's negative and ... it's really been a positive for many, many, many companies out there."
• • •
U.S. Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Miami, who appears in Romney's TV ad, said he did not recall what happened in his hometown years ago. Indeed, the jobs were lost during a strong economy and did not get a lot of media attention. Even now, with the plant in the news there is not an outpouring of outraged former workers.
"It's horrible when anybody loses their job," Diaz-Balart said. "But the reality is that's a company that created thousands and thousands and thousands of jobs. Here's the question: How many jobs has Obama created?"
But for some it still burns.
Hewitt, the former HR director in Miami, said she found the company particularly heartless in the way it handled about a dozen highly skilled workers from Puerto Rico, whom Dade Behring wanted to transfer to Miami after their plant was closed.
She said they fretted about Miami closing as well and that she relayed the concerns to managers, who pointed out the Miami plant was the most-profitable operation in the country and that there was "absolutely no plan to close it."
Two months later, Bain announced it would close the Miami operation. The workers wanted to return to Puerto Rico. And they wanted the company to waive a relocation-repayment penalty if they left Dade-Behring.
"No," she said company managers said. "Absolutely not."
Hewitt, a Democrat who plans to vote for Obama, said she wanted to speak out about what happened. "It was horrifying to me that I had played any role."
The experience, she said, eventually led her to get out of human resources. She is now an animal-welfare advocate.
Hewitt said she doesn't know what happened to the hundreds of people who lost their jobs.
Neither does handyman José Gutiérrez, who worked for Dade Behring and stayed at the facility when it was converted to its present use as a self-storage warehouse.
"I worked with these people, they were friends, but I never saw them again," said Gutiérrez, 53. "I think no one came back because they were sad."
Gutiérrez recalled one former worker, a Colombian immigrant like him, who fretted that he couldn't find a job to match the $12-an-hour salary he earned at the warehouse. He also remembered the African-American security guard.
"I'm making $22 an hour," Gutiérrez recalls the man saying. "Now all I can find is minimum wage."
By Alex Leary and Marc Caputo, Times/Herald Staff Writers
Gee that sounds a lot like what GE Capital did to Montgomery Ward in 2000. Bought the credit cards sold them to WalMart and annouced the company was bankrupt while the corporate board was trying to refinance. They effectivly closed down any chance of refinance and put the employees of 435 stores plus service and distribution facilities out of work.
if you write something soo llooong , at least make it interesting ! .. you guys sould be fired for being soooo boring
Newt has no chance to get my vote but I was astounded that CNN would think that his previous marriage was an issue to start the debate with. With all the issues out there that are worthy of discussing at the debate, for them to lead with the ex-wife's statement shows why so many people have become disillusioned with the media and the political process. I want to hear what each candidate is going to do to restore some integrity to politics and actually do something to get our economy going! As an independent voter, I don't hold out much hope that the Republican or Democratic Party will do what's best for the country but I will never stop believing in our country.
Well said, Robert. Exactly my view. Except that I AM hoping to see Newt as our next president, and so far, I plan to vote for him if given the chance. Would I marry him? No. But anytime I need a doctor--or a plumber or electrician or auto mechanic, to do a job for me, would I restrict myself to men I'd want to marry?
I believe--from what I've seen so far--that Newt has the intelligence, the right values (whether or not he has lived up to them in his past behavior), the love for America and what it stands for, and the cajones to get the job done and do what's right for us. We need these qualities. We need a smart, strong, confident, outspoken leader, Newt looks like the most qualified in all these regards.
livia - given that Gingrich was kicked out of leadership as Speaker of the House by fellow Republicans, would you hire a plumber that was kicked out of his old company for poor workmanship?
That's a very good question JC-1439099. I'd have to say: it depends.
Depends on exactly what happened and why; and even more than that: it depends on who the plumber is today. And if I had a broken mainline that was spurting water and about to submerge my house, and I thought he was the most capable plumber in town, I might not even care all that much about the first question.
Can he do the job? Can he save my house? Can I trust him (at least as much as I can trust the other available plumbers)?
JC-1439099 my friend, our country is a house that's quickly going under water. I want the best possible president I can find. I'm not looking for a saint. I'm looking for the most capable man to do the job.
livia - in that case, I would definitely suggest that Romney would be the best choice. I think that one of the main reasons that President Obama has been ineffective in tackling the problems we face is his lack of experience as an executive (either private or public sector). With the credentials he had, he might possibly have been able to land a middle management job in a company, but certainly not CEO. Similarly, I don't see that either Gingrich nor Santorum have the necessary skills. It is possible that Paul may, but I don't know how much of the business side of things he was involved in when he was a practicing physician.
As far as I'm concerned, Romney's experience as both a CEO and Governor make him the only person in the race that has the appropriate background for the job. If Perry hadn't imploded or Huntsman was still in the race, they might have been worth a look for those seeking a non-Romney candidate.
The last thing we need is another plumbers apprentice trying to fix our plumbing problems. We actually need a real plumber that knows what they are doing.
Romney was staggered the last debate like a boxer out on his feet. His eyes were dazed and the expression on his face was blank. I do not expect that again tonite, but Newt is buoyed by his new lead in the SC polls-
InsiderAdvantage Poll has him 32-29 over Romney and has NEVER missed a SC call! So tonite is Newt's to lose as he has big MO going for him. Coming South has been difficult for Willard as we DO NOT want to nominate another moderate. A moderate cannot and will not solve the problem with Washington. Mitt beware of the NEWTRON BOMB tonite:)
Corporations are people and Willard Romney is a robot.
Robocop had a warmer personality than Romney
It is so sad that people who don't really know Romney has this perception of his as being robotic and out of touch. Did you watch Wolf Blitzer on CNN? He knows about Mitt Romney as a person and he does not agree with the stereotype of him being robotic and out of touch. He had a lot of nice things to say about the man and his personality. According to Blitzer, he is a very warm, friendly and easy going. People are so quick to make judgements because he represents the 1% that liberals on these posts despise so much and automatically he is stereotyped as being out of touch.
"Sincerity - when you can fake that, you've got it made"
Mitt has the ability to turn on the charm when he wants to sway someone, but "charming" is not the same as "sincere". The only thing Mitt is sincere about is what can benefit him, everything else is an act.
Dee Patriot...you made me all warm and fuzzy with your take on Mitt....just like his dog felt when The ex-Guv strapped Rover to the roof and sped down the interstate...I mean only a warm,sensitive,nice guy would do that !
Like I said it must be nice to be Mr. Romney. I like this debate now. I mean wow four different personalities debating each other to be the nominee of the Republican party should be a true knock down drag out fight tonight.
Hewitt, a Democrat who plans to vote for Obama, said she wanted to speak out about what happened. "It was horrifying to me that I had played any role."
The experience, she said, eventually led her to get out of human resources. She is now an animal-welfare advocate.
Feisty, is this you?
Willard Romney is a jobs cremator.
And Obama is a job killer
Wow, What a choice, Who to vote for???
Romney, A man (I use the term very loosely here) who put thousands out of work for his own profit
Newt, A serial cheater who was kicked out of congress by his own party for ethics violations
Santorum, A racist evangelical who would try to combine the Federal Gov with the Church and force his values on everyone. Are we ready for another Dark Age?
Paul, Another racist who has driven his home district in Texas to the brink of bankruptcy and made it the Federal Aid capital of a State that operates off of Federal Aid while ignoring his own stated policies and endorsing repeal of equal rights, SS, Medicare, deregulation of,,,,,,,,Everything
Scrap all of the above
I'm playing it safe and voting for " That One "
Obama 2012/2013/2014/2015/2016
Yep, in that order
Really well thought out Justina
Bo, you are full of @!$%# Ron Paul not a racist and your other comments have no merit
Hey, when you're dumb, you lie. Mitt's done it, Newt's done it, Santorum too, now this guy.
How can you insist that Ron Paul's a racist when everything he says and does indicate otherwise?
these poor clowns. and they dont even know it.
Poor Obama. BYE BYE!
dream on.
One problem I have with Romney is that he reminds me a bit too much of George W. Bush. Not necessarily in terms of policy, but in temperament. While Romney seems to be a bit more polished than Bush, he does have the arrogance of the former president. He comes across as someone who gets annoyed when people have the audacity to question him--he's just a bit better at hiding it than Bush, who often was downright petulant towards his opponents. With a smaller and smaller field and Newt targeting Romney directly, this will be a true test of Romney's temperament. If Newt can throw Romney off his game and look more credible than Santorum, he can perhaps take SC and make the Republican primary a true contest. However, if Romney looks presidential tonight and wins SC on Saturday, the race is pretty much over.
First of all, George Bush could be many things but I would not describe him at all for being arrogant, he was very approachable and very easy going. As far as Romney is concerned, Romney always looks Presidential in every interview and every debate. That was never the issue. It is the perception that he represents the top 1% and is out of touch that seems to be the problem with people especially in today's enviromnent. I do not see the arrogance that you see. All I remember about him being a little frustrated is maybe once when he was asked about healthcare in Mass in an interview and had to explain for the 100th time that his model was for the state of Mass and should not be forced on all the states at the Federal level. After a while you get tired of defending that same position and he showed a little frustration. He just needs to be himself and be clear and consistent with his jobs message.
Oh yes, Dee Bush is arrogant, very arrogant. He wants people to think he is a guy to sit and have a beer with but beware he is a snake in the grass just like his old man.
Dee Patriot-
Very well stated. Thank you. It is nice to see that some contributors on this thread have some
intelligence and can think outside what the MSM wants people to think.
re. CNN article “Hard Hit SC Town”: Wow ... I'll have to go through the article once more to fully absorb it but what really, I mean really stands out is people's "controlled" (even predetermined) thinking and their thought process used to justify. No doubt about the hard times they are experiencing and their leaning heavily on their faith is totally understandable. Faith even for just emotional stability is God sent. Yet the logic presented is amazing in demonstrating, even under pressure and demanding times, people's tendency to rationalize emotional biases and come to firm but very questionable (regarding their own best interests) loyalties. The rationalizing of several different biases is obvious but for just one example take their using Christian faith to justify Republican loyalty - the exit of American jobs, the aggressive exploitation by the few costing the majority greatly, the concentration on favoring the very wealthy while just conning the majority, the pursuit of a private agenda advancing the "more" mentality that is pushing this country towards being a two class society of "haves greatly" and "have nots" and the stubborn and arrogant total effort to irresponsibly fault and block all corrective efforts, can accurately be attributed to the Republican / Tea Party - so where is there anything consistent with Christian values and not just politicians putting their political ambitions above all else while serving only the interests of "the few" who strongly support them and "pull their strings"? Is it possible these people really don’t understand where their problems came from or that the Republicans just want to return to more of the same, Bush-Cheney style? Just amazing!
Shouldn't the candidates mention in some way the fact that the Charlotte, NC democrat majority city council has order the relocation of the downtown transit center to away from down where the democrat convention will be held in order to protect the convention attendees from Charlotte black people that frequent the transit center. To suggest that the democrat party has no respect for our black citizens in Charlotte and the surrounding cities is an understatement...a disgraceful lack of respect.
The next time your making up BS you need to write it all down first, Check spelling and punctuation, Then attempt not to sound totally insane by calling black folk attending a Democratic convention racist against,,,,,,black folk who are not attending the convention, LOL
Almost as funny as calling a guy who is half black, half white, raised in a polynesian atmosphere "racist"
Since none of the GOP candidates are anywhere qualified to be considered for President, it looks more and more like a brokered convention. Jeb Bush has been mentioned and lord knows he would have plenty of backing from the dynasty of Bush and all their "benefactors/beneficiaries". This country cannot entertain a 3rd Bush over the last 25 years. Is there anyone out there in the GOP who is remotely qualified, to step forward as an alternative to the slate of clowns, degenerates, job destroyers, and sanctimonious liars?
Republicans will send a conservative out this time to do battle for the hearts and minds of the voters. We have tried moderate to no avail. Our highly qualified decorated war veteran moderates do not win. So now we will send the people a stark contrast with Obama; not Obama lite=Romney. It will be a true Left or Right vote this Nov. Let the chips fall where they may.
to answer your question rick, no there is not.
PA Rick, what are your qualifications for the presidency? seems to lack common sense.
hot daddy, the repub contender is looking more & more like 'Obama lite=Romney'. Hope the chips fall in favor of Obama and not 'Mr. Flip Flopper', Romney!
Yes, let's hope we have 4 more years of economic bliss...
Sorry Roy. We havent had that since the Clinton administration!