Back about a month ago I posted a response to another poster (Dr. Ron, if I recall correctly) that was arguing that the drop in unemployment to 8.6% was “good news”. I said that the USDOL attributed the decrease to hundreds of thousands of discouraged workers giving up on looking for a job, and they don’t count them as “unemployed”, and that people giving up on looking for a job is not even close to being “good news”. The Nasty Redhead responded that the average voter doesn’t care why the unemployment rate is going down, they just want to see it go down. My response to Nasty was: “The average voter is a moron”.

Here is an article from the weekend WSJ that addresses the issue of “The average voter is a moron” and shows why Winston Churchill was such a genius.

Why Ignorance Is Democracy's Bliss

The Iowa caucuses marked the official beginning of the presidential election cycle. For the next 10 months or so, the American public will endure polls, pundits, canned stump speeches and negative ads—the media circus that passes for 21st-century democracy.

Despite this flood of coverage, one troubling feature of our elections will go largely unmentioned: The typical American voter is uninformed about political basics. Consider these facts:

• The vast majority of voters can't name their congressman or a single congressional candidate.

• 45% of adults don't know that each state elects two senators.

• 40% of Americans can't name the vice president.

• 63% can't name the chief justice of the U.S.

This isn't a recent phenomenon. In 1964, at the height of the Cold War, only 38% of Americans knew that the Soviet Union wasn't part of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. In December 1994, a month after the Republican takeover of Congress, 57% of Americans had never heard of Newt Gingrich. As Winston Churchill once said, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

The Pious Backstabbers; GOP Clown Candydidates

The Candydidates all thought they could peddle their fear during the debates; in essence all they did was expose what a bunch of unfettered hypocrites they are.

President Obama will beat the cowards. All he need do is smile

Second Thought!

There is no surprise!!!! The field is set with all white men.

Now that the field is "NOT" of a diverse Culture and Gender we can move on to the truest sense of Conservative Principles that being the party of the GOP with no Hermans or Michelles. Go figure, an all white MALE party. With no diversity, I guess Newt will stand up and sound the charge of equality for blacks and females.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Bill.

The reality is that you bought all that 2008 campaign crap, and never let it go. You, and the partisan outlets that feed you your mis-information, have spent the last three years using projection after projection to reinforce what you could not let go. You ignore any an all that contridicts your spoon fed delusion, blindly repeating crap like "community organizer".

Grow up, and study up. Your cable news fed ignorance is rather pathetic.

By downsizing the Defense budget, we are entering a long overdue era of austerity in this area. Let's face the fact that many super-affluent Americans have been making $Billions from a War Economy.

Obvious - is the need to rebuild our strength and restore fiscal balance after a decade of war. Since 9/11, our Defense Budget exploded hugely. Even though it will now slow in pace over the next decade, the budget will still be larger than at the end of the Bush Admin. The Defense Budget will still be bigger than the 10 countries below us on the budget chart -- all COMBINED!

The President's good judgement here reflects one more "of the countless reasons" why we will re-elect him.

Barack/Joe 2012

WOW!

At least we know how Mr. Mr First Bill spent his weekend!

Epic Zzzzzz little buddy! ☺

Finally Joe you realize the average Fox (aka tea people GOP republican propaganda machine) tea people GOP republican viewer is a moron. That's been reported for a long time, it's nice you're finally catching up with us Liberals, even though you're about 3 years behind.

Joe in Albany,

Every late night comedian loves to do the "street interview" with average folks. Any simple political question stumps most of them.

Good for laughs and good for 30 second negative ads during any election season. That is why they work.

So it is your opportunity and mine to engage others in the political facts one conversation at a time.

If Romney is elected president we'll all be back to the missionary position.

Or Sanotrum, for that matter.

Or. . . .

Bill, Fairfax, you know the first couple paragraphs made absolute sense but you should have stuck with a debate on military cuts. Your comment regarding that is common sense and no doubt most everyone right and left agrees. Our mililtary budget has exploded over the past decade. Surely, we can find $48.9 billion a year in wasteful spending on unnecessary military items.

Too bad you turned your thoughful and objective assessment in the first two paragraphs of your post into something anti-Obama. Don't forget, Bill, it was Congress which failed to come to an agreement in their Super Committee which means automatic cuts to both military and domestic spending go into affect. President Obama outlined in his State of the Union address cuts in domestic spending, eliminating waste and fraud, cuts to the military; he presented Congress with the American Jobs Act which outlined investing in America's future and paid for it but our dysfunctional Congress saw fit to take no action.

A strong nation militarily requires a strong nation domestically. For 30 years, investment in the country has taken a back seat to spending to build an even more powerful mililtary. It is time to focus attention on smart investment in this country for all Americans.

The Debaters

Oh what a hilarious picture

http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/esq-gop-candidates-010612-xlg.jpg?w=655

LOL,
I score these debates an " EPIC FAIL". They just don't get it. Conservative Candydidates were slinging all their fear and hate!!

Score one for Paul taking the others on about endless wars; and nothing else of substance. Once a kook always a kook!!!

Should be interesting if someone does a word count on how many times President Obama's name was evoked and the fear of the 1% is of losing its wealth from the least of their brothers & sisters. That'd be those in the middle & poor classes, gays, veterans, students, little children, and the elderly during the debate.

Oh, the fear of losing this country to all those greedy socialist waiting in line for an undeserved entitlement.

The backstabbing GOP needs to get serious

Joe,

While you're right that a lot of Americans are uninformed, just don't swivel your finger towards the Democrats to attribute blame.

Governors like Snyder (MI) have passed laws that clear the way for 'Financial Managers' run their towns. They get rid of the locally elected officials, target schools to shut down. Today these governors have fired more than 600,000 public sector workers, many of them teachers.

Democrats and our President are working hard to improve our schools, while GOP is getting rid of them. It would seem they want to privatize our schools and provide their own form of science for our children.

GOP congressionals and candidates want to end student loans. We can't just have business and technical colleges and no Universities because only the wealthy kids can afford it. The right wing would like to price us all out of higher educationl and really do a hack job on our future.

Factor in Faux Entertainment disinformation - a machine that dumbs down millions. A recent study showed that viewers who watched NO NEWS, were better informed that Fox 'News" viewers.

All of the above are part of the longterm right wing agenda to keep Americans uninformed and misinformed, the better to be manipulated by big corporate agendas.

No, not the democratic agenda. We like education and real information out there for everyone.

Bottom line, most people have a life that is more interesting to them than the game playing that is politics Not saying it is right or it is wrong, it just is. Maybe our politicians should look outside of the bubble of power they all lust for and see what the "average" voter is interested in. Just saying.

I myself haven't read anything Bill or Joe have posted for some time now. It's all garbage in a garbage out.

Whenever people throw insults and accusations at Obama over the defense cuts I have to wonder, do they not realize these cuts were mandatory because of republican demands during the debt ceiling debate? These cuts are thanks to the house republicans not Obama so Bill of Fairfax, if you want to criticize at least do it on something Obama is guilty of.

People turn everything into anti Obama and avoid the fact that none of the republicans but Huntsman have a clue. I would say those that can't be 't help you.bothered with facts shouldn't be voting.

I must say the debate yesterday was, to me, the best so far. Probably because of Gregory doing an outstanding job as modiator. The candidates? Same old blah blah blah.

They say the Country is going to hell in a hand-basket, yet, not one of them puts forth a plan of any kind as to how "THEY" would fix it. They simpley spend all their time bashing their fellow candidates, and or, that horrible black man in the White House.

Come on you clowns, get your acts together and prove to us "HOW" you will do a better job than President Obama.

A seriously doubt if you can.

Obama in 2012.

Republicants,

blindly repeating crap like "community organizer"

Bill Fairfax and the rest of his fellow clowns will still be calling President Obama a "community organizer" long after his eight years in office. Their blind hatred of him and unwillingness to acknowledge his accomplishments says more about them than it does the President. There is an element of racism in their criticism that they are unwilling to acknowledge.

Meanwhile in NJ it's Menedez vs Obama.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/sen_menendez_blocks_federal_ju.html

But don't worry Senator Bob says it's not personal.

Hey FR Why no follow-up on a major political fight in the Democratic party?

Also, on the subject of recess appointments. There were a number of articles this weekend concerning the hypocrisy of Harry Reid and Barack Obama. Senator Reid was the originator of the pro-forma session to stop President Bush from appointing recess positions in 2007. He was supported in this by a certain Senator from Illinois.

Now that it is a Democratic Administration that has called the pro-forma session a gimmick, majority Leader Reid has folded like a cheap suitcase. Just like the debt ceiling vote it depends on which side is doing it.

And they have the nerve to call Mitt Romney a flip-flopper.

Now ask yourself no joe, why is it that while you should be focused on the republican candidates and what they can do to fix our problems, you and the other idiots from the far right continue to obsessively post utter garbage about Obama? We get it, you don't like him for reasons you have for whatever reason chosen to believe random bloggers over facts. No wonder the GOP is in trouble, they are obsessed with hatred for Obama.

Now, ask yourself, how in the world could an extravaganza such as this have been held at the White House in secret? The answer is, frankly, it could not

It was only a matter of time!

I KNEW the nut job from NJ couldn't resist sinking her fangs into this! lol

Careful sweetie - people still haven't forgotten how you made a complete ass out of yourself with your Mumbai trip 'reporting'! ;o)

Care to share your source with us Donna?

British tabloids don't count!

Jody, "For 30 years, investment in the country has taken a back seat to spending to build an even more powerful mililtary"

Yes, NOT leaving giant humungous footprints & nation building, but PLANNING to use smaller conventional ground forces & whatever is needed specifically for that project, ie surveillance, intelligence, etc. has got to be a winning formula for America.

Seriously people are posting in a republican primary thread about a party Obama held in 2009? Really? The tea party is the most ludicrous bunch of obsessed spewing garbage that ever existed. I wonder where they will obsess once Obama is out of office in 2016, not like any of the idiots up there could beat Obama but Huntsman.

Governors like Snyder (MI) have passed laws that clear the way for 'Financial Managers' run their towns. They get rid of the locally elected officials, target schools to shut down. Today these governors have fired more than 600,000 public sector workers, many of them teachers.

So Backhouse do you have an alternative? If the town is broke and other people's tax money is to be used to bail the town out should we just hand over the cash to to elected officials who were in charge and caused the crisis? You tell me how you solve a problem like Detroit where they have lost so much of their tax base but their spending is still the same because of contracts signed years ago before the current financial crisis hit. I would love to hear a positive plan for Detroit to get back on it's feet.

ODS is a sad, sad thing to see.

Jan: Now ask yourself no joe, why is it that while you should be focused on the republican candidates and what they can do to fix our problems, you and the other idiots from the far right continue to obsessively post utter garbage about Obama?

The Left certainly doesn't want to have this election to be about Obama. In 2008 it was the complete opposite where the Left couldn't talk enough about the man with the "Hope and Change" and the "Yes We Can", the man that would unite us all, get beyond partisan politics, and even stop the oceans from the rising. At least Obama got the last one right.

2012 though is completely different for the Obama supporters. Now it's, "He has no real power", "It's Congresses fault", "Can't fix these problems in four years, need four more", "It's Bush's fault". Lame excuses, everyone of them. The Left talks about Obama "accomplishments", "accomplishments" that somehow will have cost $6 trillion in deficit spending in four years. So the last thing the Libs want to talk about is Obama, and we see this divert and deflection from the Left.

So Jan, it's not "garbage" that is being told about Obama, it's his record that is being talked about. And if this election is about Obama's record, he will lose.

Hey backhouse, do you know what the illiteracy rate is in Detroit?

Do you know how bad the public schools are?

Do you have any idea how corrupt City politics in Detroit are?

Do you know where former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick is right now?

Monica Conyers? (Wife of John Conyers)

Come on over to Detroit. I'll drop you off in the middle of town and when you get out, we can talk.

Do you know that Snyder proposed and passed a 2011 budget last April? Something that his Predecessor Dem Jennifer Granholm was unable to do without raiding Stimulus money?

Finally, do you know that Snyder and the Republican Michigan Congress and Senate elected in 2010 have started to turn Michigan around already?

Seems those DRACONIAN cuts didn't hurt as bad as all the Unions claimed they would.

The Financial Manager scheme is very scarey, anti-democratic and am trying not to use the FASC..ST word.

Governors like Snyder will be repealed for getting rid of elected officials and putting in their own UNELECTED 'financial managers' to do their dirty work, shutting schools and selling off town land to private investors.

If the towns are broke, why pay these otherwise unqualifed 'financial managers' up to $250,000 in salary? Where does that money come from?

You know as well as I that across this land, more than 600,000 public sector workers have been laid off by GOP Governors. Under the PRETEXT OF BUDGET CUTS, Governors like Walker shifted those money to the wealthy and corporations in their states.

And no, they didn't fix the budget shortfalls with those monies. But Walker is happy to spend $millions more fixing a voting 'problem' in his state that doesn't exist. He thinks we didn't notice. The problem he has is that people are on to him and they don't want to vote for his methods of 'fixing' the budget in WI. Same with Snyder et al.

And the President is doing and has done his part to 'fix Detroit' and all the other Detroits with REAL POSITIVE ACTIONS - like saving the Auto Industry that is now back on its feet, hiring and CREATING REVENUES for our economy.

JoAnna, without proof of the accusations, indeed it is garbage. I am not saying Obama is perfect or even a great president but what possible good comes from obsessing over everything he does? While you all sit around obsessively posting about his flaws, you have completely failed to analyze your own candidates and look what you have left. No one thought Bush could win in 2004 for similar reasons, until the democrats put up a weak candidate next to him. People will go for the familiar rather than someone weak and lets face it Romneys flaws are out there.

A 'secret' Alice in Wonderland party???

It was posted on the white house web site and reported by the Chicago Sun-Times. Some secret. And veeery old news to boot - from 2009 - almost 3 years ago.

Grasping at straws!!!

I was convinced to vote republican and I still feel we need a fiscal conservative. All but Huntsman scares me, so as an independent my vote will likely go to Obama unless Huntsman can pull it out. However its looking like Romney will be the candidate and honestly the more I hear of him the more he sounds like a puppet to Grover Norquist, nothing more.

Hey Backhouse, where do you get off saying that Snyder will be repealed?

Live here?

Flint, Highland Park, Detroit.....come on Backhouse, really, I'd love for you to take a walking tour of those cities.

Stick to what you know.

Whatever that is.

Jan: JoAnna, without proof of the accusations, indeed it is garbage.

What additional proof do you need? High unemployment, anemic GDP, poverty rates soaring, deficit spending out of control, $15 trillion in debt, and a health care program that will likely by ruled unconstitutional. Obama ignores his own debt commission report while the entitlement programs continue to sink into the abyss.

These are the facts Jan.

It's time for someone new to work on these problems because Obama won't.

Jan - you have completely failed to analyze your own candidates

So please Jan, analyze Obama.

Good and Bad.

Joe your post proves you're a Fox (aka tea people GOP republican propaganda machine) uninformed watcher.

Alan if the country is broke and other people's tax money is to be used to bail the country out should we just hand over the cash to the tea people GOP republicans who were in charge and caused the crisis? You tell me how you solve a problem like the United States where they have lost so much of their tax base because of their tax breaks to the rich and corporations..

And the President is doing and has done his part to 'fix Detroit' and all the other Detroits with REAL POSITIVE ACTIONS - like saving the Auto Industry that is now back on its feet, hiring and CREATING REVENUES for our economy.

Why and how was the auto industry "saved"? Did the administration leave the same managers is charge after they gave them the BILLIONS in taxpayer money? What was the salaries/bonus of the new management team? Was this team qualified by years of experience working in the auto industry? After the industry was "saved" when did the taxpayers get their money back?

be: It was posted on the white house web site and reported by the Chicago Sun-Times. Some secret. And veeery old news to boot - from 2009 - almost 3 years ago.

The entire 3 years Obama has been in office has been one big Halloween party.

Again, again,

It is beyond ridiculoso to point the finger at the President for current illiteracy rates in Detroit or anywhere else.

This President is doing more to boost Education and teachers than anyone. The American Jobs Act will put millions of teachers back to work, rebuild and modernise schools. But GOP congressionals voted no three times to the AJA and refused to bring up even for debate.

GOP doesn't want to fix things or improve our Education system. They want to privatize, make Education for the haves only, teach their own form of science and really dumb everyone down goodstyle.

Take a good look at Texas.

Don't talk to me about illiteracy rates. Same as everything else, they don't happen overnight.

JoAnna, I am a nurse and in medicine we treat problems not symptoms. Those things are symptoms of problems that started long before Obama came into office, in fact it started with bad policy during the Clinton administration. If you cannot analyze history and understand the policy that went into causing the problems, how do you possibly hope to fix it?

Obama hasn't fixed them but the GOPs failure to acknowledge their own part of the problems is a real turn off and you haven't answered me. Why obsess about Obama when you should be finding a candidate that can solve the problems to go against him. You all get behind the flavor of the week that pundits tell you to, this entire primary has been a joke. You completely fail to offer up any answers. None of your candidates are offering solutions but Huntsman.

Alan if the country is broke and other people's tax money is to be used to bail the country out should we just hand over the cash to the tea people GOP republicans who were in charge and caused the crisis?

The Democrats were in charge of the congress 2007 - 2010, so you tell me who was to blame. The current Administration loves to blame the congress for it's economic woes so by their logic the Administration is blameless.

BTW I don't think there was a Tea Party in 2007 so they definitely did NOT cause the crisis.

Personal observation:

Bill of Fairfax, Joe in Albany and Alan in NJ all posted a coherent statement of their views on an number of current political topics.

Others responded.

Then NOJO began to add her thought, but immediately swung to her favorite topic, the personal lives of the First Family.

Your purient interest in the the president and his family is bordering on an obsession.

Obama the good-foreign policy, bringing our troops home as planned from Iraq, working with the UN to assist rebels to take down problematic dictators. Dealing with somali pirates aggressively.

Obama-the bad, failed stimulus, and a healthcare bill that should have waited for a stable economy. Failure to get anything done economically in the two years he had.

The reality-he was handed the worst economy since 1930 and two wars. I don't see any republican that would have turned the economy around any better with the offered ideas. Which only really means, they are all bad.

And JoAnna, I have no issue with you disliking Obama. What I take issue with is turning conversations about the primaries for republicans into a Obama bash fest. Its counter productive, your distracting from analysis of the candidates that are running. Why obsess and post continuously the same things about Obama? Its not helping your case any, it only makes you look like the boy that cried wolf.

Watching the debates, I couldn't help thinking, while Romney may "win" the nomination, he hasn't won the hearts of Republicans, much less the minds of the Independents. Does anyone actually like Romney?

Jan, good points, nice posts.

Nothing like watching a right-wing, anti-Obama poster jump down Alice's rabbit hole. Old, not news and definitely not a secret. Imagine that, a big secret posted on the White House web site in 2009 for any and all choosing to read it.

The reality-he was handed the worst economy since 1930 and two wars. I don't see any republican that would have turned the economy around any better with the offered ideas. Which only really means, they are all bad.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

One thing I would say is that in medicine they do treat symptoms and buy time for the body to heal itself. This is basically what the Administration did with the stimulus. The problem is that it may actually be the cause of the current sluggish recovery. That 800B had come from somewhere and it may have been better to let the patient recover on its own. Even by the time the stimulus was passed the job losses were beginning to bottom out and the TARP (which I hate to say was probably the real reason we did not go into a depression) had begun to un-freeze" the credit markets.

However, at the end of the day I think this Administration thinks there is a government solution to every problem, and that is a philosophy I don't have. If you look at my previous posts on today's thread the theme is that government cannot react fast enough to changing economic conditions. It's a sad fact of life that a company can lay off employees so quickly but if it saves the company who's to say they are wrong. Government at all levels cannot react this quickly and so they borrow to maintain their services and that stores up the problems for the future. I am not against government I just haven't seen much of the "smart" government that politicians keep promising.

Jan: JoAnna, I am a nurse and in medicine we treat problems not symptoms. Those things are symptoms of problems that started long before Obama came into office

And now we're back to the talking points of delusional thinking.

Jan, like many other Obama fans, you're grading Obama on a curve, you're pointing fingers at others and making excuses. Obama came up with a $800 billion Stimulus I plan in 2009. and it was a total failure. He tried to come up with an additional $449 billion Stimulus II plan in 2011, and Congress (even his Senate) rejected that plan. He pushed for ObamaCare, and that soon will be ruled unconstitutional. After months of dithering, dithering that his Defense department said would cause us to lose much ground, he escalated the war in Afghanistan, which we are now losing ground at because of Obama's dithering. Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq, and now Iraq is sliding into a brutal civil war with Iran helping that cause.

Your obsession to grade Obama on curve is noted. It seems you, and many others on the Left, will look everywhere and anywhere else to blame before you even consider that Obama is the one causing the problems.

Amy,

The only thing from what I read here is that the right has a severe case of ODS. I will say, Dr. Paul supporters come out strong for him, but it is a rare, rare thing to see anyone from the GOP say anything about liking Romney.

And if this election is about Obama's record, he will lose

If this election is about your version of Obama's record, he will lose. If it's about his actual record, he'll be just fine.

You need a good dictionary, Northstar, in order to discern the meaning of the word "prurient".

I will give you just this much education- concern over the spending of MY tax dollars on personal entertainments is not prurient.

Neither is my condemnation of a press that has abdicated its responsibilities in favor of worship in a cult.

JoAnna, Iraq cost us nearly a trillion dollars for a war we should never have been in. We cannot afford to occupy them or anyone else, its as simple as that. I am sorry that there is unrest there, but honestly there has been unrest there for a thousand years.

I grade everyone on a curve Joanna, life isn't so straight forward. I have no obsession, and the only way to fix the problems is to treat the problem not the symptoms of the problem. Honestly you are so blinded by hatred, there is no getting through to you.

Alan, I don't disagree with you that we need massive cuts across the board. We simply cannot afford to continue down the path but everyone but Paul and Huntsman are wanting us back in Iraq and more defense spending. It is extremely frustrating that the republican candidates are not being analyzed by the right wing. If we want to fix the problems we have to put someone in there that knows how to do it.

Jan: And JoAnna, I have no issue with you disliking Obama. What I take issue with is turning conversations about the primaries for republicans into a Obama bash fest.

First Read has decided to devote 99.9% of their articles to the GOP primaries. To that end, there is little or no discussion of other political stories. If you don't want to discuss Obama and/or the political dealings of the day, feel free to put people that do wish to have those discussions on Ignore. So many other Leftists on these pages do the Ignore routine because they really can't deal with the pain and agony of comparing and contrasting Obama and the Democrats to the same standards they apply to the GOP.

Interesting post, Joe in Albany...Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears, as your target is defined in the post. Myopic, sycophantinc, o'blemmings will not see themselves in your mirror. Additionally, they tend to rant and rave, hurling insulting barbs and calling those who do not agree with nasty names, demonstrating their tru character.

Remember, Joe, a liberal doesn't mind if you have an opinion, as long as it is the same as theirs...

But you are not comparing or contrasting, you are just hurling accusations. The time will come when Obama enters the race and there will be more discussions about Obama. There is vast amounts of literature on Obama, trust me my tea party friend on facebook don't let me forget as they spam useless crap like 2009 parties all day long.

I am not a democrat, I am an independent. I have no delusions that Obama is great, but what I am seeing is a conservative base that listens only to talking points and pundits to decide on their candidate and are failing to find anyone that they can agree on. While they continuously obsess about Obama.

Reality Check, that goes both ways, liberals and conservatives both trounce on people with a different opinion.

Alan, I don't disagree with you that we need massive cuts across the board. We simply cannot afford to continue down the path but everyone but Paul and Huntsman are wanting us back in Iraq and more defense spending.

Again we're on the same page. But, as much as I thought Iraq was a mistake, I do not see how any future Administration is going to avoid conflict with Iran. One of the successes you quoted "assist rebels to take down problematic dictators" actually works against here. Libya was convinced to dismantle its nuclear capabilities. Once gone we then aided the rebels to overthrow the dictator. With that record how do we convince Iran to dismantle its program peaceably.

On another point I was shocked to day to find out the unfunded cost of Medicare D. $7T. It dwarf's the cost of Iraq and has not ended. The first order of healthcare reform should have been to address that issue.

Ah yes, the delusional left. When confronted with inconvenient facts they revert to ad hominem attacks and lame talking points. But hey, I'm not complaining. That's a large part of what makes this board a never ending source of amusement -- at least for those of us with a brain.

Kind of like the inconvenient fact that the republicans were the ones that demanded the across the board spending cuts that caused the military cuts recently not Obama? Then again that big brain of yours must have known it wasn't his idea...

Alan I agree, the only thing I can hope is that Iran is more of a problem for China at this point than us and they are grasping trying to get some support in Latin America. One way or another Iran will be dealt with, I just don't want it to be another Iraq, it has to be a UN move.

Medicare part D is a problem, privatising medicare would be a disaster. There is no way private insurance companies are going to be able to take on the load of the elderly at the rates Ryan gave. Santorums speech on the Elderly choosing was very nice but apples and oranges to federal employees versus walking talking pre existing conditions. Medicare is the primary finance by far for hospitals, take away the elderly pay and they will crash. As far as it goes giving business tax breaks to insure people would have covered the people who need it. We really need to start supporting small business more.

Jan: But you are not comparing or contrasting, you are just hurling accusations

See post #1.49. Those aren't accusations, they are facts, facts that Obama will be judged on.

Jan: I am not a democrat, I am an independent.

Jan: I was convinced to vote republican and I still feel we need a fiscal conservative. All but Huntsman scares me, so as an independent my vote will likely go to Obama

Wow, you sure went from voting Republican to being "Independent" to voting for Obama, most definitely not a "fiscal conservative", all in two sentences. That's got to be a record.

And Huntsman is a Democrat running in the Republican primary. You see the results.

Bill: Ah yes, the delusional left. When confronted with inconvenient facts they revert to ad hominem attacks and lame talking points

Bill: Ah yes, the delusional left. When confronted with inconvenient facts they revert to ad hominem attacks and lame talking points

Jan: Then again that big brain of yours must have known it wasn't his idea...

And so they continue . . . .

White Collar Auto

Hey Backhouse, where do you get off saying that Snyder will be repealed?

Live here?

BREAKING NEWS:

In spring of 2012, Michigan Rising (formerly Fire Rick Snyder) will start a second recall attempt against Governor Rick Snyder. The first recall effort was done without the formal help of the unions or the Michigan Democratic Party (MDP).

http://www.eclectablog.com/2011/12/dont-expect-uaw-to-help-with-recall-of.html

No I have always been an independent, it gives me the luxury of voting the person not a party. Personally both parties have aspects that are bad in my opinion. We do need a fiscal conservative but if you think I am going to vote for some most of what the republicans are offering, your wrong. While you have continued the obsession with Obama, you all have FAILED to give moderates and independents a candidate they can vote for.

If Newt wants to see "pias balogna, he needn't look any further than his own reflection in the mirror. He would stand NO CHANCE against Obama, especially in a one-on-one debate where his temper would surely get the best of him.

The GOP ticket that could win this November is Romney/Huntsman. The American public doesn't want hardcore partisans anymore. We want moderates who can reach out to the other side of the aisle, and compromise when necessary for the good of the country as a whole.

As a Democrat who will not vote for this fake-phony-fraud of a used car salesman that my party nominated four years ago, I am rather enthusiastic about working to get N.Y. Democrats to crossover in November.

So here we go.....DEMOCRATS for Romney/Huntsman; let's get back on track, America!

I agree, JAN, but I find the pompous invective hurled from your friends on the left quite a bit more distasteful, led by one FRH. Perhaps you should do a quick survey for a few days.

Yeah lets cut the Military, at a time where we've sent our troops on several tours to a point of exhaustion Obama decides to cut the amount of troops. So what are we going to do now extend the tours to two years. This guy is a total failure as Commander in Chief. Time for a change and early retirement.

Probably you find it more distasteful because your on the right. I have friends on both sides and I find that they can be equally useful or offensive. When you get past the talking points to policy like I have with Alan conversation is possible between two people who don't agree.

wlee,

Well, if you aren't happy with the downsizing, how about re-instating the draft. Then EVERYONE has skin in the game. Bet some folks would start rethinking military answers for every question then.

This is the sorriest pack of nothings the republicans have put forth as Presidential candidates in recent history. The news media though, continue to talk of them as though It will eventually be able to determine the particular one who did not fart at the dining table. Can't do it! All these sum-bitches showed up at the meal with unwiped asses and soiled drawers smelling so bad the fart was never recognizable in the mix.

Congrats to the Denver Broncos and Tim Tebow. I always root for the underdog but I like him even more because he's causing the anti-Christian lefties to spit out their espresso all over their Che Guevara t-shirts.

BEV,

I said 'repealed' instead of 'recalled' and the Insult/Denigrate light bulb lit up in his brain.

Thank you & agreed: Snyder will be recalled.

michiganrising.org is organizing again to recall Governor Snyder (MI) in April 2012.

Snyder has the lowest approval of all Governors, less than 20%. He's been getting away with the most radical politics in the states. As with so many Republican Governors, Snyder is trying to do away with Democracy at state level.

There won't be any surprises in New Hampshire. Mitt will win big and he will be the nominee.

Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich will continue their racist assault on Black America by claiming that welfare is a black problem and Santorum will continue to tell people there is no such thing as a "middle-class" in America.

No surprises here, none in South Carolina and none in Florida. If their lips are moving, they are lying and they are going to keep flapping their lips until election day when the voters will shut them up.

Too bad we'll have to do it all over again in the mid-terms and in 2016.

If we don't do something to silence hate radio and the FOX News propaganda machine we're going to be in real trouble in 2016.

The Mark of the Beast isn't "6-6-6", it's "G-O-P"! Don't the Greek symbols for "6-6-6" read "G-O-P" in Latin? I'm pretty sure they do.

Obama/Biden 2012

Well thought-out post by Bill. Balanced, respectful, factual. No wonder the LeftyLibDems "heads are exploding" as they like to say. See how they resort to their tired old canned responses? Personal attacks & insults. Blaming Bush & resurrecting the past. Or blaming the new Republican House. Accusations about Fox news or parroting conservative talking points. But basically, just unthinking rants and raves.

Regardless of what LeftyLibDems try to frame, and that includes the broken axelrod, the election for the majority of Americans will revolve around big government, big healthcare, big increases in taxes, big spending, big, intrusive regulations, big debt, and big unemployment. These are all issues BO can't win which is really good news for America. Not so good news for the LeftyLibDem polesitters, ostriches, self-conceits, faux, self-appointed intelligentsia, and organizers.

Phinephancy, I'm all for reinstating the draft without deferments. Two year obligation.

Post # 22 below has the pulse of the issues at stake.

Jack of portsmouth and repulicants...

Let's review shall we...

Obama did not lead either the illinios senate or the US senate. His only leadership experience was that of a "community organizer",

Too bad he hasn't shown that minimal leadership ability in creating American unity to have us move forward. His willingness to blame others speaks volumes!

To bad obama floated from issue to issue and left most of them unresolved of major controversial issues.

I do so like how he ignored the advise of rahm emmanual on getting healthcare reform done. See 2010 end of year review by the mclaughlin group.

Interesting also is that michelle has also blamed his (obama) advisors for this administrations shortcomings.

-------------

It is so cool that obama thinks he knows all the answers.

We all know from his speeches that he promotes "hope and change", "change we can believe in," action needs to be done right away and it needs to be done "my way".

Wonder what his 2012 slogan will be since he ignored the advice of the commissions he set up..." I will right my wrongs of the past (honest I will, I have experience now)"

"As a candidate in 2008, Barack Obama promised that if he was elected president he would not issue obscure declarations known as signing statements that thwart the intent of laws passed by Congress. But as the president now seeking reelection in 2012, on at least 20 occasions Obama has embraced the same tactic he criticized George W. Bush for using, raising allegations of double-dealing in Congress and questions of constitutionality from the American Bar Association.

Obama's most recent signing statement came on New Year's Eve, when he autographed a 13-paragraph memorandum declaring he did not intend to follow several sections of the National Defense Authorization Act that funded the military for 2012. The president said his lawyers had concluded the provisions interfered with his constitutional duties to carry out foreign policy."

Hypocrisy from our Constitutional Scholar-in-Chief? Good grief, say it ain't so,

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/04/obama-embraces-signing-statements-after-knocking-bush-for-using-them.html

Well Jan, this is the same Joanna who decries that Obama tripled the budget in his first year without understanding how fiscal years work. The same one who accuses him of constant vacationing when he's actually taken a third of what Bush or Reagan took. The same person who decries his pulling out of Iraq even though it was set to be the pullout date when Bush was president. Yes, she's a perfect example of the GOP lie perpetuation machine. No real knowledge, no real sources, but a lot of misinformed blathering day after day.

No. Bill's comment is biased, not factual.

This is what is really happening out there: How's this for your so-called SmallBIG government?

Joe Harris was appointed Emergency Overseer/Manager by Governor Snyder in MI.

By Executive Order, 'Emergency Manager' Harris fired and replaced the Financial Manager, City Manager, Mayor and Commission of Benton Harbor and kicked out all the local elected officials.

Harris said, "I don't need them". When locals tried to vote all that down, they found out that their democratic votes are NULL and VOID. The elections have been over-ruled by Governor Snyder and his henchman Harris.

Just like this example, your rant on Big has no reality. But do You know that?

Do you understand that Dems on here aren't buying your Spin? If not now, when?

On Jan 3, J.Merle Stanley wrote

J. Merle Stanley-2759623

Job1, First off, I'm not one of what you describe as "you people." I am (or at least I was) a registered Democrat, and I have a great disdain for Lush Limpballs.

And today says: As a Democrat who will not vote for this fake-phony-fraud of a used car salesman that my party nominated four years ago, I am rather enthusiastic about working to get N.Y. Democrats to crossover in November.

So J.Merle what are you? You are not a Democrat, I would say perhaps a mole or a double agent. Go register with the Republicans, I'm sure you're underhanded tactics will be most welcome as they are fueled by hate on which they are experts.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

WOW!

At least we know how Mr. Mr First Bill spent his weekend!

Epic Zzzzzz little buddy! ☺

I expected nothing less than this response from her.

I mean let's face it... Bill's post was well thought out, full of facts, and missing all the typically liberal snarky comments. Of course she found it boring!

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

SOB

It's a new year and I was SO hoping you would lay off the humping of Bill's leg on every opinion piece he lays out there.

Or are you aware you do that?

And then you turn it into a beef with Feisty? It's just so darn priceless. Perhaps your obsessions should be tamed one session at a time? on a couch in a padded room?

(Show us the relevancy, sicko.)

@Clara

Seems you have an obsession with me. I just love how I make one post and you are all over it girlfriend!

HAHAHA!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And now for Jan...

Jan-21270

Kind of like the inconvenient fact that the republicans were the ones that demanded the across the board spending cuts that caused the military cuts recently not Obama? Then again that big brain of yours must have known it wasn't his idea...

LOL! Don't you see the problem with your statement? Across the board? I don't see any "Across the board" cuts. Only military cuts. Where are the "other" cuts that must be included? You know... like entitlements! What a fool.

And she continues....

Alan I agree, the only thing

I can hope is that Iran is more of a problem for China at this point than us and they are grasping trying to get some support in Latin America. One way or another Iran will be dealt with, I just don't want it to be another Iraq, it has to be a UN move.

We've seen what happens when the UN "takes action" haven't we? Who ends up cleaning up the mess? US! The United States that's who! You loser libs are all the same. You live in some dream world that never even approximates reality.

If Bill had been paying attention, he would have noted that it was President Obama who suggested cutting the deficit by 4.1 Trillion over 10 years (the proposal was rejected by that party of fiscal irresponsibility, the modern Republicans, and that is was President Obama who recommended that Congress operate on a "pay as you go" principle (and it was Republican political hacks who refused to do so).

We've seen what happens when the UN "takes action" haven't we?

Well, Mommar Ghadaffi certainly has...

Is there a problem? I'd suggest you open your eyes and face reality - you know, use some COMMON SENSE.

Exactly Stupid. (sorry... but you picked the name)

Libya was a "UN" effort... but the forces overseeing the effort were... you guessed it... US Military Forces. They used our weapons and our intelligence.

Of course, your point is truly supported when we look at how successful the UN has been in getting Iran to fall in line ;-)

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

cs: If Bill had been paying attention, he would have noted that it was President Obama who suggested cutting the deficit by 4.1 Trillion over 10 years (the proposal was rejected by that party of fiscal irresponsibility,

Obama "suggested" cutting the deficit? Do you have any specifics on that "suggestion" cs? You know, like how it would be accomplished. Something like a plan. Obama is big on suggestions, and small on actually having any kind of plan.

cs: President Obama who recommended that Congress operate on a "pay as you go" principle

""After years of historic deficits, this 110th Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay as you go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt." - Speaker Nancy Pelsoi - Acceptance Speech: Jan/2007

How did that work out again? Oh, yeah, $5 trillion in deficit spending over the next 4 years.

Suggestions and recommendations from Obama (and talk from Pelosi) are worth nothing.

| We've seen what happens when the UN "takes action" haven't we?

stupid: Well, Mommar Ghadaffi certainly has...

That was NATO stupid.

Louis J

Although The 6 remaining candidates are white is a fact. It really isn't important unless you are not practicing MLK'd dream "of man being judged on the content of his character and not on the color of his skin".

The only person on that group who as a racially blemished record is Ron Paul. Why did I look it up for these people?

Because of people in politics play the race card to damage or destroy people wo actually don't practice it.

You are not following as MLK taught, instead you are practicing what he sought to eliminate.

Bill, # 1.78. Thank you for noting the 20 signing statements that Obama has issued while in office for 3 years. This insidious end-run around a straight veto is very troubling.

I have taken time to look at the first ten of them and notice that you did not mention that 5 of those first 10 signing statements are 100% favorable and make no qualification at to their enforcement. (I've not checked the last 10, although at least the last one - that you indicated - does issue a qualification to its enforcement)

1 Barack Obama February 17, 2009 Statement on Signing the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 100% favorable

2 Barack Obama March 11, 2009 Statement on Signing the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009

3 Barack Obama March 30, 2009 Statement on Signing the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009

4 Barack Obama May 20, 2009 Statement on Signing the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act of 2009

5 Barack Obama June 2, 2009 Statement on Signing the Ronald Reagan Centennial Commission Act

6 Barack Obama June 24, 2009 Statement on Signing the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009 100% favorable

7 Barack Obama June 24, 2009 Statement on Signing the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009

8 Barack Obama November 11, 2009 Statement on Signing the Military Spouses Residency Relief Act 100 % favorable

9 Barack Obama May 24, 2010 Statement on Signing the Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act of 2009 100 % favorable

10 Barack Obama July 1, 2010 Statement on Signing the Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010 100% favorable

I don't know what's going on with number's 6 & 7, but both have to be counted to get to a total of 20.

Thanks for your reasoned criticism.

Bill, American & Jo ann.... Just a clue. We Have spent far too much time bashing Obama and NOT taking care of business. That and NO answers of our own, makes for a lame excuse/reason for the currant field we have. Where are the good Republicans of years ago...??? Because of mouth pieces like you (& fox & Hannity & Rush & Ryan & Co) We do not deserve to win in 2012. I only hope we can get back to the core principals of the GOP. The Teaparty group has Destroyed any hope we have to reclaim the Sen. we may not hold the house. The enemy is Us!!!! SAD.

You can definitely tell a person's political slant based upon the comments over the moderation of yesterdays second debate. The Liberals find that Gregory's tactics methods and questions were and are superb and the moderates and conservatives think it stunk.

I of course are one of the ones that think Gregory shouldn't be having conversations with a single person on air, much less moderate any debate since he couldn't keep his political pecker in his pants.

Debates are supposed to be fair and equal, giving equal time to discuss all the issues brought up and explore the candidates differences. He constantly shifted more time to certain candidates (mitts) and cut others off (Dr Paul & Huntsman) when they clearly had something to say. Crowd reaction is a BIG part of a debate sometimes it's the only way to know if the candidate is scoring points and he didn't give any time for the debate to flow. That second debate was anything other than "Fair", it was disjointed shallow and boring. Gregory was the moderator, outside of Vanderplatts, worst moderator by far.

JoAnnaSmith1

That was NATO stupid.

I knew what he meant, JoAnna. And to be quit honest... it wasn't worth the effort to try to educate him - so I just went with it.

The point that I was trying to make was how the UN has handled situations like Iran and North Korea... Sanctions... They really work don't they... NOT!

And who is left to clean up the mess... As I said earlier... US.

(And believe me... the mess we will have to clean up after those clowns are dealt with will be much larger than anything that happened in Libya.)

Who knows, these damnyankees might just be quirky enought to vote for Ron Paul? They might choose honesty over politically correct bs?

Ron Paul 2012, yes, vote for a real change for a change!

Egilman, # 1.92. did ya notice how Gregory's first questions out of the starting gate asked Gingrich and others, why Mitt should not be nominated. I mean he's asking them to speak out against Mitt.

And then all the coverage about the debate was how everybody pounced on Mitt. David definitely was going for drama and sound bites, without trying to bring out any kind of thoughtful discussion on real issues.

But don't bet the farm on my "political slant" (unless that bet is with me!)

Actually GreenT

I agree with you, effectively he disarmed the bashing attacks from happening again like they did in the first debate. The first debate destroyed Mitts, the second debate propped him up, it was a farce.

Joanna,

I'm interested to see who you are supporting in the primaries.

fyi2day

Vote Ron Paul 2012, you and your neighbor's freedom depends on it. Make sure you tell them! The MSM is counting on the fact we won't educate each other. We must come out of our shells on this! This is not a left or right issue. This is a fundamentally foundational American issue, which Paul is offering the only correct alternative. Without our freedom nothing else matters. Don't be distracted by lesser issues. Good luck with your research and please vote! Yours in Liberty!

fyi2day

Sure, I agree.

Let the media expose just how kooky this fool Ron Paul is with his keys to the lock box theories and how much of a cowardly racist he is!!!

Dr Paul's speech @ the John Birch Society?

Ron Paul At the 50th Anniversary of JBS
Sep 28, 2011

http://www.jbs.org/birchtube/viewvideo/1007/constitution/ron-paul-at-the-50th-anniversary-of-jbs

Or Ron Paul Endorsed By Former KKK Grand Wizard

January 03, 2012

http://www.bilerico.com/2012/01/ron_paul_endorsed_by_former_kkk_leader.php

How about Ron Paul, pictured with Don Black, director of the white nationalist website Stormfront, and his son, Derick?

http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/12/should-glenn-greenwald-have-to-own-the-ron-paul-blue-plate-special/
==================================================

This is the man who, to trumpet his pro-life agenda in Iowa to social conservatives, released an ad that questions whether repealing Roe v Wade would eliminate women's abortion rights in enough states, since it would create "abortion tourism" (a situation with which the Irish and the British are already familiar). He opposed the Obama administration's decision to declare birth control a preventative medicine, which pressures insurance companies to cover it without co-pays.

He has said he would allow states to decide same-sex marriage rights for their citizens but keep the Defense of Marriage Act intact – which restricts federal rights, including immigration and social security survivor benefits (among others) to opposite-sex married couple

He opposes the 1964 Civil Rights Act. He wants to restrict birthright citizenship, denying the children of immigrants legal status in the United States if they are born here, voted to force doctors and hospitals to report undocumented immigrants who seek medical treatment, and sponsored bills to declare English the official language of the United States and restrict government communications to English. And that's just for starters.

Sure , be free to be homeless and destitute with the government in your bedroom and life under Paul.

That is not freedom; pal. that is crazy and servitude!!

The man, Ron Paul is a bon-fided lunatic

Obama/Biden 2012

Free thinga are not always good or free for that matter!

Job1

I myself haven't read anything Bill or Joe have posted for some time now. It's all garbage in a garbage out.

Definitely!!! It's recycled garbage straight from FOX NOISE to their ears to their rectums and back again to a FR post. Nothing can ever be new from these 2 conduits; they are being recycled.

It appears to me that the RWNJ's are going to allow Quinnipiac to decide who they want nominee will be:

Remember when Newt Gingrich had a sizable lead in the Sunshine State? Well, that appears long gone. Per a new Quinnipiac poll, Romney has opened up a double-digit edge over Gingrich among likely Republican primary voters in Florida,

All the hype spouted about "the polls" and "what America wants according to the polls" is SO BOGUS...

I believe it is Murdoch & his fox, Rove, the Kochys and other Wall Street "1%ers" simply manipulating the teanuts/repubnuts with their spin, half-truths, and sales pitches. They create some appearance, and the nuts go for it instead of investigating, questioning, and thinking for themselves....

WAG THE DOG...

Really sad (and dangerous!)

fyitoday

I'm guessing that you are one of the young adults who constitute Dr. Paul's important base. I am also guessing that you are reasonably intelligent since dumb young adults usually ignore politics. That said, can you explain why Dr. Paul referenced President Taft in the Saturday debate?

Taft was picked by Teddy Roosevelt as his successor. His term was considered a disaster and he was booted out of office after one term. He presided over the Teapot Dome Scandal as one of his calamities.

Is Dr. Paul so committed to the "Good Ole Days" that he has to refer to Taft as his inspiration?

During Taft's term in office:

Women could not vote and were discouraged from going outside the home

Non-whites were forced to use separate public facilities

Banks were unregulated and went on to create the 1920's stock market bubble

Healthcare was a private matter between you and your doctor, if you could find and afford one.

Protective tariffs were used to keep foreign stuff out of the US

Interracial marriage was illegal

Wacky medical experiments on mentally challenged, convicts or poor people were common

Membership in the KKK was as important as a country club membership for businessmen (there were no businesswomen) and local politicians.

The point is Dr. Paul romanticizes the early 20th Century as a model for the US. His notion of a congenial mostly rural society simply did not exist and his notion of where America should be heading is a fantasy.

Oh here we go!!!!!!! the obaMANIACS are going to start demonizing all white people who do not support Obama, by labeling them as KKK'ers, or 'white nationalists.'

Never mind the anti-American, anti-White-hate-filled remarks that Obama's pastor, Reverend Wright, came out with while he sat in the congregation and listened intently. (Remember "not God Bless America, but God DAMN America!" and (paraphrase) 'white people invented AIDS to hurt the black population'? How about my personal favorite; "Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me. I told my baby daughter, that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office."

I'm not a Ron Paul supporter. But if you listen to him, instead of trying to gratuitously label him as a racist, you would understand he is in favor of equal rights for all people. Not, rights (or privileges) being taken away from one group and given exclusively to another, in the name of "evening the playing field."

You know it's funny. But, the same people who cry and moan about "civil rights" in connection with Obama's candidacy, or Presidency, are the same people who treated/spoke to or about BOTH Hillary Clinton, and Sarah Palin with venom, vitriol, and outright misogyny. So, it would seem that to them, the "rights" of some people (blacks, minorities, and gays) are more important than the rights of others, such as woman (in particular WHITE woman).

We need to be UNITED, people! Not divided according to how you can claim victim status by slandering someone else, and and labeling them as "racist!"

This sort of race-baiting and divisiveness that I have seen on line, and heard in person from Obama's supporters is a big component in the list of reasons why this Democrat will NOT vote for him

If / when we get through an election cycle without any of that sort of poppycock, we will have truly evolved as an equal society.

Until then we're just kidding ourselves by believing/asserting that one group is worse, more hate filled, more prejudice, more oppressed, or more put-out, than the other. Because there's plenty of that to go around, and it comes in all shapes colors, sizes, and sexes.

Loyal texan - wasn't it obama who referenced teddy roosevelt in a campaign speech in kansas late last year?

Hasn't obama referenced FDR at times?

Your argument of any politician wanting to return to whatever "good ol' days" there may have been is ludicrou,s especially when you are foolish enough to present social practices that have been shown to be abhorent by the majority of the US populace today.

Good one Bev,

You wrote "freedom to be destitute and homeless": Ron Paul's "Freedom" is a lot about gutting federal agencies and deregulation.

Freedom from Healthcare regulations coupled with freedom from Mercury and Arsenic in the air:

Is freedom to die.

Translation: You.. are.. On.. your.. Own.

Skip

Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich will continue their racist assault on Black America by claiming that welfare is a black problem

How about if back that one up. All I can find is liberal based accusations and no untainted facts.

Corrrrrrection:

Freedom from Healthcare regulations - coupled with freedom from regulating Mercury and Arsenic in our air (for example):

Is freedom to die.

EPA regulations are critical to the nation's health, and our competitiveness.

Taft's grandson wasn't that great of a governor either, but he was better than
Gov. Strickland who's regulation and tax encourged more jobs to leave than were created. This trend finally was reversed by Kasich in the last half of the year.

LOYALTEXAN @ 2.5

Dr Paul was NOT referring to President Taft, he was referring to Senator Robert Taft of Ohio...

Commonly known as "Mr Republican" and one of the greatest 20th century libertarians that ever lived. You need to read up, here ya go..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taft

Sorry bud, this time you have really come across not knowing what you are talking about.

American

You got me on Teddy. He was an odd bird but not the subject of my post.

Egilman. I heard Taft with no other context. Without digging into tivo to confirm, I recognized President Taft as his subject. It was not a stretch for me because his aura is that of glamorizing an era devoid of Federal influence.

I don't consider Dr. Paul a racist but he certainly advocates that the Federal government should not have a thumb on the scales of settling local rules for treatment of minorities or others lacking social or political influence.

Thank you Tex, I wasn't trying to denigrate you just inform.

Dr Paul is no racist and the information from actual investigation proves that.

And I agree that he is against the Federal Government having a "Finger on the Scales" when attempting to correct wrongs.

Maybe an analogy would work here, do you ever buy something in the store that claims to be "One size fits all" Dr Paul is against one size fits all government. Especially when that "One Size" is federal government.

He is not against correcting inadequacies or mistreatment of anyone he is FOR it, but just not at a federal level with the ends justify the means at the costs of our individual liberties...

To me it's simple and clear, We all live free or we all die, would be a good way to put it albeit a little extreme.

Part of New Hampshire is a bedroom community for Boston, and a state of small businesses, many of them cozy coffeshops. The media loves to cover the New Hampshire primary because it takes place in a small area, and while cold, reporters don't have to haul themselves over miles of farmland, to cover it.

True-ism, Amy.

Lots of people living in SE NH, commuting to their greater Boston jobs, getting Massachusetts wages, and living in no sales tax NH. Of course, the NH property tax is often higher.

There's an awful lot of off-topic chatter this morning.

Amy, thought I'd poke a stick at the silliness of the media debating one state's process over the other. When in Iowa, the candidates operate much the same way as in NH. The candidates appear at local diners, coffee shops, in homes, small businesses. The only difference is that because Iowa is larger--you can drive from one end to the other in 5 to 6 hours--the candidates appear in districts which can be travelled in 30 to 40 minutes from place to place.

run-like, it's hardly off topic to discuss the NH primary oddities which are relevant to tomorrow; that is exactly what I was doing but referencing the oddities in comparison to the process just completed 6 days ago. My point is that each and every state's process and voters are unique and none should ever be dismissed as irrelevant and unimportant.

Jody,

My bad--my "off topic" comment was actually about some of the conversation going on elsewhere on this thread. I should have made it a separate post.

rlh

That's ok, run-like, no offense taken when you posted it; just puzzled me because I was talking about the NH primary.

FYI, First Thoughts is the one FR thread where posters often like to present their "first thoughts" for the day, things they feel are relevant and should also be discussed. Our FR hosts graciously allow us that privilege. That's why you see more off-topic on FT than on the other threads FR puts up.

There's also another battle going on in the GOP presidential contest: the battle to define Bain Capital. We saw it emerge as a topic in yesterday's debate. We're about to see it emerge in South Carolina, as the pro-Gingrich Super PAC Winning

Mitt Romney is just another millionaire tryng to appear innocent in front of the people. He belongs to the 1%, and puts his "clean" face in front of the cameras, saying that he "did nothing wrong", and that "China is the enemy"; Calling Jon Hunstman stupid for being an Ambassador there when he was working for Obama, while he -Romney- was actually sending American jobs over there and putting people out of work here in the States.

What a piece!

We also need to get rid of the Senate -group of inept people-

Jody - nice observations on a states having a variety of presidential hopefuls.

Jody,

I should have remembered that, considering that I have been reading FR for a long time, even though I just began posting recently.

Jody:

Iowa, nice people but they certainly do not represent main stream America, so their pick/s really is/are not relevant. Primaries should start with states w/largest amount of electoral votes and work down to smallest. Tail wagging the dog here.

Emil

Jody,

My friend, competent political opinion over the last 50 or so years has been complaining of the Republicans slow steady march to the LEFT of the political spectrum. This has been going on since the early '70's when the disaffected southern conservative democrats joined the republican party and started the polarization of the political spectrum in this country.

Actually, this has forced the Democrat Party even more to the Left than they ever were before '68, if only to keep some semblance of difference between the parties. The Neo-cons are the children of the conservative democrats, they use the same tactics they did, and they spout the same orthodix religious bull crap they did. They took over the Republican party right about '85-6 or so.

This is where the argument comes from that we the citizens cant really tell the difference between the two parties anymore, they are both Big Spending Big Government, a little different around the fringes but not much.

This is also why Dr Paul's positions are such a refreshing breath of political air right at a time when the country NEEDS a new injection of IDEAS rather than the humdrum rolled over old political claptrap we get from the true "Mainstream" parties when there only difference is talking points.

Dennis, terrific post and information from Zaid Jilani.

There was a time when a company established itself in a location and stayed there. Today, we have states in bidding wars for those firms to leave one state and relocate to another.

I have no problem with a company expanding and choosing another state to build an additional, new plant. That makes sense, spread the wealth, spread the prosperity. But closing one plant and moving the operation and its jobs elsewhere creates no jobs, it merely shifts them to another place leaving a gigantic hole and too often economic decay where once upon a time, good jobs and pride resided.

Actually, it's called efficiency, which is what all firms must be focused on. It does not hurt governments, either.

You have a widget factory that manufactures widgets at a cost of four dollars per unit. This cost basis reflects not just raw materials, salaries, benefits, energy, and transportation, but also state and federal taxes, as well as the costs of complying with sometimes conflicting regulations. Since widgets are selling for six dollars a unit, you are doing okay.

Now, suppose the bottom drops out of the widget market, due to increased supply of cheaper widgets coming from out of the country, combined with a drop in the rate of consumer demand. In order to stay in business, you must reduce your costs. Since salaries are sticky downwards, you have no choice but to lay off some of your workers. You can negotiate with your raw material suppliers, but good luck negotiating with the power companies, to say nothing of the state and local governments.

Then, one day, a delegation from another state comes knocking on your door. They have a labor market that is educated but underutilized. At the moment, they are getting zero tax revenue from you, because you are located in a different state. They show you that their tax rate is far lower than the rate you are paying now, that their regulations are less onerous- thereby the cost of complying is lower- and they are willing to let you write off the entire cost of the move on your taxes in the year in which it occurs.

You'd be nuts not to take them up on it.

That's the business side of efficiency- there should be a government counterpart. The state in which you are currently located should be studying the very issues attracting you to a competing state, and making whatever adjustments are necessary to retain your firm in their state. Unfortunately, that seldom, if ever, happens.

Oh, governments might carve out an exemption here or there- but they do not do the intensive cost benefit studies of regulations, tax rates, and, even, the number of state employees on the payroll, that are necessary to retain private firms.

So, you get states that gain businesses, like Texas, and states that lose them, like California.

Now, liberals cry that it is not fair, but the fact is, it is not only fair, it is an opportunity for state governments to examine their policies, and adjust them so that businesses will want to relocate to their states. That they do not is not th fault of the firms, but of the bureaucrats driving them out of state.

No Joe, that attitude is exactly what is wrong with our economy. Your words are the sales pitch for the bidding wars and how it is sold to people; it sounds so reasonable--it's a great deal, it's cost efficient, lower pay, lower whatever, big and shiny new plant on Main Street USA. Those widgets which have been produced in Wichita for years do not require building an entire new facility at great cost to the business and at great expense to the taxpayers of the new site. That's hardly cost efficiency, that is simply being bought and sold to the state willing to give Boeing or whoever a better deal, never mind how much that deal costs the taxpayers in the new state and how it impacts the old state. My point is that somewhere along the last 30 year road travelled, business has lost sight of what really matters--workers and the skilled, trained workers they already have in Wichita. I see the State bidding wars for established business as no different than businesses outsourcing American jobs to China or India or Indonesia. The Kansas jobs have been outsourced to Oklahoma.

No Joe it is not about efficiency it is about getting tax breaks and other incentives that will improve their bottom line until those benefits run out and then they will be looking to start the biding all over again. We know the reasons they move - all that writing to say what we know but you still do not make an argument that this State v State competition helps or is good for our country.

Good points, Dennis & Jody. I would only add that people may be given the choice to move to the new location---if they do, they disrupt their lives, the employment situation of their spouse, the support system they probably have, are distant from family, etc. Add to that issues if they can't sell their house and it is a real problem for many.

SF,

not to mention the ripple effect of a lowered housing market in the abandoned city, lowered demand for services, etc.

the expectation that the workforce be migratory and CHEAP to offset the tax breaks further debases the intent of the tax breaks in the first place.

and the cycle perpetuates until the absolute CHEAPEST labor no longer exists in this country and the incentives are still granted for sending call centers to India,...what could possibly go wrong with THAT?

oh wait.

So, reason and reality have no impact on the emotional thinking of the liberal.

Tell you what- stick to emotional thinking and catchphrases. They've worked so well for the economy for the last three years, haven't they?

There are no winners in a race to the bottom.

Tell you what- stick to emotional thinking and catchphrases. They've worked so well for the economy for the last three years, haven't they?

How about the ZERO income growth for the middle class for the past 12 years? We have companies moving from State to State or bribing the State they reside in to give them more while they give nothing to the people that actually make a company successful, the non-exempt employees.

Jody and Dennis, I don't for a second believe that if you owned a company and could make three times as much if you moved to a different state you wouldn't take the offer. I believe the reason a company exist is to make money, not to lose it. Of course I could be wrong and you two might just be the most self righteous people alive.

Still didn't answer the question:

How does this help America ??

Dennis,

Thanks for clarifying this for us. Would like to see it take the headlines.

dennis...

So, again, how does one State competing with another to attract a company to stay/relocate help America?

1. broadens the local and state tax base. Greedy governments, they are willing to throw anyone under thed bus.

2. either maintains the viability of the corporate bottom line or its future, both of which affects jobs. If the company goes under, all the jobs are gone.

3. Capital expenditures for upgrading or expanding at the current locale are prohibitive and can be better met by relocating.

4. Relocation decisions are not made lightly or quickly.

You should know by now that no job should be considered to be secure or to be one that lasts forever, public or private.

Please tell us if you would personally continue to live in a community with outrageous rules and financial costs when another community doesn't with the same amenities?

american,

Here in Ohio in 2011 eight companies bribed Governor Kasich to give them reduced tax rates or they would leave. He did and 7 stayed. Only 1 of the 4 companies he was trying to get to relocate to Ohio did after 3 of them got tax breaks from the States they were already in.

Again our country gained nothing !!

Our taxpayers in Ohio gave up millions over pure bribery. It is soly about profits not viability.

Dennis,,,

bribed Governor Kasich

Your opinion or has the attorney general of ohio filed charges?

The state of iowa has also tried to entice business to iowa sometimes without success. So what?

Our country gained nothing!!

Really, the tax base was either maintained or expanded. The trickle down effect of those jobs into the local and state economy probably offset the states tax incentives.

I am curious, what makes you think that a job should last a lifetime or even in the same locale? That concept flies into the face of the postal service shutting down post offices or for the State of Iowa closing down some local workforce employment services.

In 2008, while working in Ft dodge, iowa the federal government had a 4 sale sign on a multistory office building, I wonder where those jobs went?

taxpayers in Ohio gave up millions over pure bribery

You assume that actual cash exchanged hands before any company agreed to stay or relocate. How emotional of you... when can we read about the states attorney general filing charges?

I believe the answer here honestly lies in the middle. I do not understand Dennis how you can blame the corporations for this. If they are able to make the same quality product for a cheaper price it would be a benefit to all of the stakeholders including customers that they do it.

The problem here is not the corporation itself or the idea, the problem you get is greed of those with power. After making such a move the Executives should be rewarded for lowering cost, however part of these savings should also be seen as a reduction in the price of the good or an increase in the wages of ALL employees. However that outcme is very rare.

Beyond that begin to think who is responsible for the bids? Is it not the local legislature? If there were no offers there would be no bidding war. To blame the corporation for attempting to be efficient is actually arguing against capitalism in my opinion. And in the end unfortunately local legislatures are not voted in nor compensated for their improvements to America but to their local constituents. It is for this reason they make these bids.

I understand the problem that it causes but is there any solution that you could offer to fix it? In addition, I do not think offering a lower price or increased incentives is a bad thing so long as the taxpayers are not left worse off by the deal. If the company that engages in the deal lies or is dishonest I think that is another matter completely. But shouldn't those agreements be very formal and arranged with both lawyers and buisness advisors? I cannot see them resulting to unfavorably for any government unless like I said those in positions of power went into these dealings making a deal that was not best for the taxpayer.

Dennis,

You can lead the horses to water,...but you can't make them 'think'.

Every time I see a string of responses to this BASIC question that are so clearly short sighted and greed motivated,...I sigh the deep sigh of futility.

They simply DON'T get it and they never will,...until THEIR job is outsourced to malaysia or india,...only THEN will they start to connect the dots.

Of course, by then, it will be too late. Go unfettered Capitalism, rah rah rah!

Clara I wouldn't call it short sighted. You mention jobs being outsourced to India from a global perspective what is wrong with that? It is only from an American one that is a problem. What I mean is if someone in India is fully capable of doing the job at a lower wage who are we to deny him? Though as Americans it makes our lives much much more difficult and it is not something I want to ahppen, I dont understand what point you are trying to make (maybe I am just confused).

I can connect the dots and what I draw from that is a message simillar to what we crucify republicans for. Refusing to let wealth flow from those with to those without. I don't see how the two arguments can be made at the same time. I disagree with any form of disallowing capable people of performing jobs. However, I am completely against abuse of this idea where in short, cost are decreased only to increase executive compensation. I believe the majority of any cost savings should be directly distributed to the most important stakeholders which are the end customers.

Akeem,

I don't disagree with your points; however, we have the Republicans beating a drum of "Take my Country BACK" and "Make America Great, Again" and it is so obvious that they don't understand the impact of globalization even on a DOMESTIC level (state poaching), let alone an international one.

This is all a result of GREED. Nothing more. Costs HAVE been decreased to increase executive compensation. Otherwise, we wouldn't see the GROWTH in disparity between CEOs and employee wages.

Okay, I understand your point better Clara. We actually agree in that case. It is not capitalism we are against but the abuse of the system.

Too funny, phinephancy! I loved the moment when Huntsman broke out into Chinese. Way to sell himself to those xenophobic Republicans!

The look on Mitt's face was priceless when Jon broke out in Mandarin. It was kind of the "man, I hate the fact this guy is smarter than me"

Mornning Phine, I will not be surprised if Huntsman eventually leaves the GOP. The Party no longer seems to have room for his ilk I could see him run for Americans Elect and draw Independents in waves. America may finally see the emergence of a third permanent political force.

Ideology,

I have been hearing more and more in regards to Huntsman and Americans Elect. I believe he would do well there. Certainly the GOP does not recognize the gem they have in him - but the independents would.

Hope your weekend was as great as mine (looks like a good week too!)

phinephancy, that's exactly what we needed this morning! Those translations sound accurate to me and definitely, who has a debate opposite an NFL playoff game? Maybe that explains why the candidates were so blah, they were busy watching the game on their i-phones or whatever.

Caught the last hour of Morning Joe and they were discussing how uninformative the Saturday night debate was. As Lawrence O said, it wasn't the moderators who failed, it was the candidates themselves who seemed unable to switch the discussion from irrelevant chatter and nitpicking to the issues that really matter to voters. Having watched, I'd say Lawrence is right.

Some more random debate thoughts:

Not being as much of a football fan as I once was, I watched all of both debates.

At times I wanted to hand Romney a paper bag to breathe into - the few times he was put on the defensive he really starts hyperventilating pretty fast. Reminded me of a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and can't blame his brother fast enough.

Gingrich is actually a pretty good debater. Much calmer and cooler. And you gotta love the "pious baloney"!

Ron Paul is completely unelectable. But at least he sticks with his positions.

Santorum still creeps me out.

I'd like to hear Huntsman more. And I still think having a President who speaks Chinese would be a good thing.

Ron Perry - how did this guy ever get elected to anything?

Candidates in general are getting even bolder about not answering the questions they don't want to. Used to be they'd just defer ("I'll get to that in a minute - like, after my time is up") or deflect ("Well, that's a good question, Diane, but what the American people really want to talk about is....."). Now they come right out and tell the moderators their questions aren't worth answering. Wonder if they'd still do that if all the questions came from actual voters instead of tv people?

Now that the field is down to six and they all fit in the same camera angle sometimes, it was very noticeable - six slices of stale white bread in suits. As Ty Pennington always says on "Extreme Makeover" - Welcome home, GOP........ welcome home. But where's the makeover?

JoAnne,

Wonderful additions to the random thoughts. Oh, piece of advice, evening debates are much better with cosmopolitans and morning debates are fabulous with mimosas!

Jon Huntsman is the only one of these Republican people on stage that I respect, because he doesn’t cater to the radical right like the other clowns on stage. I'm hoping that we doesn't try to fit in the clown car.

Even though Huntsman is the only GOP candidate that did not sign the Grover Norquist blood oath, he agreed to Paul Ryan's Plan to kill Medicare, as we know it, lowers the corporate tax rate!, etc. So, I guess he has effectively hitched a ride on the clown car. :-(

I have a problem with Huntsman's loyalty. He accepted an important position in the Obama administration and from it, planned to run against the man who appointed him.

Romney practices "Entitlement" Campaigning while railing against entitlement government. Priceless, right?

Gingrich is far more offensive to me. I find his demeanor to be so arrogant and condescending that I literally want to gag. He had just as many false statements as Romney; but the media wants to focus on the front runner.

Can someone tell me again, why is Perry still running?

Can someone tell me again, why is Perry still running?

Cause Willard is paying him?

phinephancy, and you think the JFK quote applies to Liberals, you had me laughing so hard I fell out of my chair.

Wlee - FR liberals don't understand JFK's inaugural speech. They only think that if someone from the left said it then anyone on the right is against it.

There was a FR lib last year that implied that JFK's speech was only meant for the left.

Morning Bev,

And take, and take, and take...............

Beverly in Chicago

phinephancy-4252115

".....Sunday morning debate better. I guess the old JFK quote of "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" doesn't apply to the GOP. It is more of, screw the country, just let our side win.

Happy Monday .........."

LOL, and of course, trying to get free health-care from the government, and large corporations such as GM, and the banking institutions getting bail out money from the federal government is "ask(ing) what YOU can do for your country."

NOT!

Sorry to hear that. Condolences to his family.

I hadn't heard the news about Blankley. While I disagreed with him ideologically, I found him interesting and more what republicans used to be. Sympathy and thoughts to his family and friends.

Who cares if some White House staffers don't like Valerie Jarrett? That's life.

Best line of the morning GF! ;o)

Happy Monday!

Much like the nut job fron NJ blathering about a purported 'party' 3 years ago!

The entire purpose of "person" status within the law in regard to corporation is to facilitate the ability to sue such an entity within the law. If you end this, then you will not be able to sue a company for illegal activity and among other things. good luck with that. If or when people end the leagal fiction of person hood being appliaed to corporations, you can all enjoy yth immunity you gave them and the ensuing nightmare that follows. Maybe these same people that advocate such a thing would learn a bit about history, the anti-trust laws and that era, they might understand how dangerous this is to them and thiers. good intention and unintended consequence is a sure way to send yourselves into hell.

Frank:

Not sure if you noticed, but there is quite a bit of "good intentions and unintended consequences" under the current system as well. Corporations are not people.

Period.

Any system that depends on corporations being people is a bad system . . . there is no way in hell that you or I can be equal under the law to a multi-billion dollar corporation.

Period.

Good Morning Nash, hoping you and the kids are fine.

P.S.S. Who cares if some White House staffers don't like Valerie Jarrett? That's life.

I always love your pearls of wisdom. I so agree with you.

And why is the disgrunteled ex-MSNBC , DAN ABRABMS posting a lie that Axelrod Confirms Robert Gibbs Did Curse Michelle Obama

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/david-axelrod-confirms-on-this-week-that-robert-gibbs-did-curse-out-michelle-obama/
————————————————————————————————————————–

Listening to the video I did not hear David say Yes Robert Gibbs did curse the First Lady. But, I did hear Axelrod say it was taken out of context.

LOL, LOL, LOL SPIN SPIN, SPIN as the idiots roll on!!!

Happy Monday, Nash. Good luck to the Tide tonight!

Just not interested in stories about petty in-fighting in the Obama administration or in any of the campaigns, etc. We have bigger fish to fry.

Thanks for checking in Feisty, Bev, Steeler Fan, and yes, even Frank . . . lol . . . and thanks for the luck Steeler Fan . . . here's hoping the Tide kickers receive your delivery!

P.S. My heart was breaking for your Steelers last night . . . but you all handled it with class as always!

You guys don't care about infighting because it's your party, hypocrites. Steelerfan, you guys were just a prayer away from victory,sorry couldn't resist that.

Thanks, Nash, for the sympathy. A lot of glum people around town today but we are proud of our team and have high hopes for next year when hopefully we will be healthier.

NoJO will be in soon screaming about a 2009 party thrown for the kids. She will link to The Telegraph, a conservative paper. If you think that FOX posters can be bigoted, think again. The posters at The Telegraph are rabid racists.

I bet no one has liked every boss they ever worked for. Non-issue about Valerie Jarret.

Ideology-

Fear not, she's got it covered up above at 1.21. No mention of it being a party for kids of military families, of course, that was covered on several sources at the time. No link to The Telegraph, either (this time) though she did add this little gem:

"The sycophantic press simply decided to keep it quiet. That is an issue for me. Their duties were enshrined in the Constitution by the Founding Fathers"

Okay, freedom of the press I knew about. But "duties" of the press? I think the press would be very surprised to learn that they are constitutionally bound to report what the Founding Fathers tell them to!

JoAnne,

She linked to it on a thread yesterday. The posting at that link was outrageous. The children of the KKK have found a nesting ground.

That is really something to get worked up about---a party for the children of our military, with a celebrity there to entertain them. Wow----will the scandal ever stop? No Joe has inexplicably missed an opportunity to accuse the Obamas of worshipping the occult as it was a Halloween party.

Dangerfield,

Great post.

I read the article.

Romney's business experience at Bain did indeed make money for Bain.

but at what cost?

The cost was on the backs of workers who took pride in their steel jobs, who in the end were left with a string of broken promises; the pension they were promised,reduced because of the underfunded pension fund.

Hey but that was not Bain's problem, they just want to buy and sell companies for their own benefit.

The difference between Staples a office product store and a steel mill In Kansas is the diffence between good manufacturing jobs and retail service jobs.

As NO JO said above, if Romney becomes president, the paper clips will be counted by the press but at least Staples will stay in business with their guy.

lol

That's Ron Paul's problem bdjb for common sense, people listen to what he has to say, and it's nutty.

I suppose you just want more of the same. More spending, more war, more status quo big government - whether demo or repub, that is what you are going to get with anyone but Ron Paul.

Huntsman is Cool for republican 2012 , he's a nice guy with solutions the other sare IDIOTS, Huntsmans or OBama 2012 for me

Swing Voter for huntsman

I have no problem with your suggestion or website.

Iamyea, you may have just as well spelled this in some obscure language, people on here only know name calling, and firmly believe their party is the one and only way to fix our problems and all others are just idiots.

Mr Ed-1446743

Electing SANTORUM would be giving the keys to the country's business politics to the CATHOLIC church. Their church wants total control, and every CATHOLIC'S goal is to do their church's calling. What better way to serve their church than to give it the white house? You only need to look at the BIBLE BELT and see how the church, like cancer, has infiltrated every facet of government from city, county to state.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I did a little Mr. ED-iting on your well thought out opinion.

Next lets do EVANGELICALS...

Isn't it great how well paranoid religious bigotry and fear mongering works for ALL religions?

dangerfield ,oh I thought that was a comedy routine.

Ed You know this HOW? I live in Utah and would NOT vote for any of the pack except Huntsman. I have seen Both Mitt And Huntsman up close. In 2001 "Mitt" swooped in at the last min. and strutted his stuff, huffed and puffed and showed his Temper at the volunteers for the Olympics....what a phony! He took credit (and CASH) he did not deserve. He is a total Control / My way or high way kind of guy. Sneaky as they come. Screw them Monday thru Saturday and go to church on Sunday... Jon Huntsman on the other hand is for the people...all the people..Not just His religion....Every-ones. But more than anything he tells it like it Is...not what you want to hear. He did more for this state Than any other person...past Or present. I wish he would come back to Utah and help get rid of the bums here now. I have lived around "Mormons" most of my life...they can be jerks just like others. Some good some Bad. Huntsman is the Only sane one we have in the group. We are just foolish to think any other of these Clowns could win in 2012. Ed you sir are a clown.

Let's be clear, you wrote a lot of old cods.

Millions of Americans don't collect any welfare checks. But if we lose our job - like if the company moves to another state or overseas - well then we might have to.

We WANT OUR CHILDREN, OUr ELDERLY AND ME & YES even YOU .....TO EAT.

Sheeesh.

everyone knows a women can not handle the presidentcy and their jobs should only be in a support role like hiliary has now, as god in the bible clearly states a woman was only put on earth to serve her man

limp? LOL wow!!

Have you dumped as many wives as Newt and Rush have?

Your post is inflammatory and lacks value, you clueless silly azz clown

I have been following that scenario Dangerfield. Biden would love the secretary of state position. I do not agree that Obama would have to swallow his considerable pride, the hatchet was buried a long time ago. The narrative only works if Hillary wants the job.

As a popular comment on these posts goes ... heads would explode.

I am kind of wondering if Hillary wants to take a few years off to regroup and go for the brass ring in 2016. Just an idea to throw out there for debate.

More fine words from limbaughger:

"denise, not one of them is qualified to be dog catcher, the black belongs shinin shoes, the women belongs in the kitchen and the old guy belongs in the nursin home with the other alteimers patients"

Sir, you were sired by a pig and have been relegated to ignore with no chance of parole.

Ideology-

Limburger is actually on Team Blue, and doing their (albeit as a ham-handed, equal opportunity offender) best attempt at satire...

dangerfield-

I'll take your word on it. I did check on his postings and they were consistent. Ladies and gentlemen can we please leave satire to the likes of a Jonathan Swift?

Limbauhger, you have been pardoned.

Interesting article, dangerfield - but is this scenario even constitutionally possible? I don't have time for a lengthy search, so all I could find was this from Wikipedia:

"When there is a vacancy in the office of Secretary of State, the duties are
exercised either by another member of the cabinet, or, in more recent times, by
a high-ranking official of the State Department until the President appoints,
and the United States Senate confirms, a new Secretary."

Given the laws governing presidential succession, etc, could Biden actually hold both positions at one time? Or am I mis-reading the article?

everyone knows a women can not handle the presidentcy and their jobs should only be in a support role like hiliary has now, as god in the bible clearly states a woman was only put on earth to serve her man

In other words you think women deserve the life of an angel: barefoot and without food.

Please tell me your posts are just to pull everyone's leg and get a rise out of some? You truly don't believe all that stuff you are writing?

Phine....

Sometimes you have to get equally stupid in order to get through to someone being stupid.

Looks to me like Limbaugher is right on!

Perhaps he can get some of them (not to mention any names no jo, JAS1, spanky, etc., etc.) to see themselves and finally realize.

Hope so anyway.

Not so,

I do hope you are right. Otherwise, I see men holding a white jacket coming for this guy :)

and your point is? sounds like my kinda people and party to me, whats your problem?

Hope that remark is facecious sarcasm rush....

Sharky, You've nailed every single plank of the Republican platform - not an easy task, considering how warped those planks are. But, once the knots start popping out of the boards, the platform will be too weak to support any candidate.

Fancy Too, I don't have the actual counts, but from some ad hoc articles I've read, none of those 3 states have a very explary record of picking winners.

Ive been called racist, bigot,sexist, wacko, druggie you name it, the libs are good at calling peole names when the disagree with them and are blind to their real christan nature and truthfulness like me

Truth lies in the eye of the beholder, gotta love politics.

TruthDetector1

and doesn't mention that he said he read them

I saw your post and seemed to remember that he never said he read them so I went back and watched that part when he and Newty were going at it and he actually never said he read the ad.. just sayin. He did say he knows what is in the ads, and his statements were dead on about Newty Boy.

And yeah, Limpbaugher is a racist...

Famous repubelican tactic, point at others so no one looks at you.