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Subscribe to RSSSIOUX CITY and ORANGE CITY, Iowa -- Devotion is key in this part of the state, its most conservative corner. And, just two days before Republican caucusgoers cast the first votes of the 2012 presidential election, devotion to Rick Santorum here seems to run deep.
“He’s a true conservative,” said Beth Goethschius, of Sioux City, one of about 150 or so people, who packed into The Daily Grind coffee shop in downtown Sioux City to hear Santorum speak.
“He is the most consistent conservative,” said Dale Nystrom, a physician from Hawarden, who was among about 200 people, who filled chairs, leaned against walls, and backed up the stairs of the basement of a bank around the corner from “Bibles for Missions” and off the town square of rural Orange City, about an hour north of Sioux City.
Nystrom and his wife Lynette signed up this week to be Santorum precinct captains.
“He’s a hard worker,” said Lynette, who said she’s been with Santorum since August and convinced her husband, who liked Rep. Michele Bachmann and then Newt Gingrich, to get on board. “I talked him out of it,” Lynette said with a smile and a laugh. Dale smirked and nodded in agreement.
At Santorum's events very few were undecided. Most had their minds made up -- and they were with the former Pennsylvania senator. If that’s any indication, then Santorum’s scuffed-up shoe leather campaigning over the past year, which has taken him to all 99 counties, has paid dividends. If he has, in fact, locked up religious conservatives, who made up 60% of GOP caucusgoers in 2008, he could be on the cusp of pulling off a meteoric upset.
Of the other candidates making a play for evangelicals, voters here in the Northwestern part of the state, said they liked Bachmann, but didn’t view her as electable or of presidential timber. And few, except one 18-year-old, first-time caucusgoer, even mentioned Texas Gov. Rick Perry.
In 2008, Mitt Romney actually won Woodbury County, where the population center Sioux City is. In an event there yesterday, Romney was well received. But in Sioux County, where Orange City is located, Mike Huckabee ran up the score winning 53% of the vote. Romney finished third (behind John McCain) with just 14%.
At both Santorum events, religion was evident. In Sioux City several Santorum lines were greeted with "Amens." In Orange City, a pastor introduced him with a prayer. He called it an "honor to pray for Rick Santorum," who is "standing for righteousness even when it's not popular. ... We commit him to you, Lord."
Mary Clark, also of Sioux City, said she made up her mind to caucus for Santorum “a couple days ago.” “He’s a conservative,” Clark said, noting that she had seen all of the candidates in person. Santorum, more than the other candidates, she said, seemed to be able to express how his experience in Washington would be helpful. She believed he could get things done.
Ryan Beardshear, 30, of Sioux City, also cited Santorum's experience. “He has a proven track record of experience,” Beardshear said. He said he had been with Bachmann, but now his “mind is made up” to go with Santorum. “He’s a better fit,” Beardshear said. “It’s not a canned speech” with Santorum.
Myrtie Demarest and husband Gaylen drove 40 miles from Cushing, Iowa, to hear Santorum speak in Sioux City. They also said they liked what they heard.
“He has conviction,” Myrtie said. “He’s not ashamed.”
But they also like Bachmann and don’t have their minds fully made up.
“They’re real close,” Gaylen said. Asked what would make up his mind, looking down, he paused, then said, “We’re going to pray about it.”
For Rick Fetterman, there’s no question.
“I’m fully decided,” said Fetterman, 50, who works at a nearby Holiday Inn, but said he is finishing up studies to be an evangelical minister at Sioux Land Christian College. “I believe 100 percent in Rick Santorum.”
Fetterman said he, too, liked Bachmann, but the endorsement of a local pastor made up his mind. Plus, Bachmann’s slide in the polls, he said, made this clear to him: “I don’t think the people of America are ready to put a woman in office.”
Several voters said they made up their minds in the last few days. Most said they had also really liked Herman Cain but he’s no longer an option. They also liked Bachmann. And some said Newt Gingrich.
April Buysman, of Orange City, said Santorum had “more hold of the facts” than Bachmann.
Jerry Goedhart, of Orange City, said of Santorum, “He’s more genuine. He comes down to your meetings. He doesn’t stand above anyone.”
“He’s like a regular person,” said Carolyn Goedhart, Jerry’s wife.
Dale Nystrom said he didn’t think Bachmann “had what it took to stand up to liberals." Santorum, on the other hand, won as a conservative in a blue state, he said.
Many said they had liked Gingrich and thought he might be the best to debate Obama. But the word repeated over and over with voters about why they’re no longer with Gingrich: "baggage."
Gingrich has been pummeled on air here in the Hawkeye State with negative ads. One analysis by the Campaign Media Analysis Group said 45 percent of ads that have run were negative against Gingrich. Many admitted to seeing the ads, but didn’t believe they had an impact on them.
“Santorum has less baggage,” said Gene Nitzschkie, of Sioux City. “I know a lot of what’s said about Newt in those ads is B.S., but….”
Lynette Nystrom said she didn't trust Gingrich’s "impulsivity.” “I wouldn’t want him to have his finger on the red button," she said.
Most voters cited "core convictions" when talking about Santorum, and they believe he "shares my beliefs."
A few said they were still undecided -- leaning toward Santorum, but also considering Romney. Santorum "believes what I believe," said Sue Conaway, of Orange City. But she also believes Romney could win the presidency.
To a person here -- unlike at other events for Romney and Perry First Read attended this week -- they all said they would caucus. And that conflict between shared values and electability could well decide the outcome of the caucuses.
Leave a Comment:
I'm kind of glad to see Santorum coming up in the poles....he seems to be trying really hard to do the right thing......I'll have to see how he does a little more....
Santorum is a religious extremest and more than a little crazy... he almost certainly will fade back to oblivion as soon as the election cycle really gets going. I'm not sure what the Republicans are going to do since they don't have one decent candidate to run against President Obama. Hopefully, they will all be disgraced along with the evangelical political platform.
Santorum is a Kochead "Puppet" for the 1%, beloved by the Tea Retards. ("KKK Extremest")
Rick Santorum named one of the MOST CORRUPT CONGRESSMEN in 2005 and 2006. Fact:
w w w. citizensforethics.org/index.php/press/entry/crew-releases-second-annual-most-corrupt-members-of-congress-report/
Start at p. 207 for the indictments:
w w w.citizensforethics.org/page/-/PDFs/Reports/CREW_Beyond_Delay_Report_20060920.pdf?nocdn=1
Yeah, Santorum is so "consistent," he supported "abortion on demand" Arlen Specter over Pat Toomey. Santorum is a Muslin hating tool.
I'm going to start bringing my mop and bucket into First Read with me. I sense a lot of drooling and foam sputtering over the next few months. Not that it hasn't happened in the past (froathing and foaming of the mouth), but it's going to get intense in here... I can tell it already.
Brianb-999431
I'm going to start bringing my mop and bucket into First Read with me. I sense a lot of drooling and foam sputtering over the next few months. Not that it hasn't happened in the past (froathing and foaming of the mouth), but it's going to get intense in here... I can tell it already.
You can start now by cleaning up your own poop.
Bev--- Maybe we should step back a little bit and close our eyes. It sounds like Brian 'b' frothing and foaming. He must be a Santorum fan. Please don't google Santorum.
Tom ,Yreka
Bev--- Maybe we should step back a little bit and close our eyes. It sounds like Brian 'b' frothing and foaming. He must be a Santorum fan. Please don't google Santorum.
Tom,
I know all about Santourm's bestially. I have not forgotten his "man on dog" fascinations".
This guy strikes me as a religious cult weirdo ...92% of the American people are against these cult members in " OUR GOVERNMENT " .The minute these weirdo's get in... peoples rights are violated ..they try to force their cult agendas down the throats of the American people ....and young boys seem to be violated..once they groom them ... I wont vote for this "BUM" or Ronmey either "birds of a feather " ! The people don't trust or believe either of these cult members !
Say it isn't so
This guy strikes me as a religious cult weirdo ...92% of the American people are against these cult members in " OUR GOVERNMENT " .The minute these weirdo's get in... peoples rights are violated ..they try to force their cult agendas down the throats of the American people ....and young boys seem to be violated..once they groom them ... I wont vote for this "BUM" or Ronmey either "birds of a feather " ! The people don't trust or believe either of these cult members !
What's so ironic is they claim they don't want government in their lives; yet they are intend on legislating laws from the bible that intrude people's lives!!
You're both nuts.
Beverly in Chicago,
Happy New Year.
Santorum is a religious conservative , he is the Bachmann of PA. He is the flavor of the weekend for those looking for someone other than Romney.
Say it isn't so
So, Catholicisms is a cult now?
Can't we just get along?
NorthstarDFL
Beverly in Chicago,
Happy New Year.
Thanks
Happy New Year to you too. Rick Santorum as you say is the "tutti fruitti" of the month; for that matter the century. Santorum is banking on the deep red state to pull him over.
DemsR & DB
I have more than one evangelical protestant tell me the Catholicism is a cult and we worship false idols. Catholics in the south are only one very small step above Mormons. They also say the Catholics aren't Christians because we haven't been "born again". Anything else you want to know about evangelical bigotry against Catholics?
Happy New Year
Good grief! Everything you libtards preach is right out of the bible - except that it urged the individual to be generous and you people want to force others to be generous to you and your causes. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give alms to the poor, aid the sick - all right out of the bible. As noted though, the difference is that libtards want to force others to obey their religious left commands and would never think that they should be giving instead of taking.
Watermoon,
I replied to you below as well, but I'll add the short version here. First, don't hate or use hateful terms - it makes you sound childish. Second, all of those values aren't 'right out of the bible' any more than espionage is 'right out of James Bond novels'. Those values FAR predate the Bible - your religion just co-opted them, and we'll still be preaching them long after your religion is just another relic of history.
Here's funadmentalist fanatic santorum on birth control:
"One of the things that I will talk about that no president has talked about before is I think the dangers of contraception in this country, the sexual liberty idea and many in the Christian faith have said, you know contraception is OK. It's not OK because it's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."
Inquisitor Sicktorum's campaign slogan-"forcing religion on others is my attempt to make up for my tiny "Richard".
DB Acron
So, Catholicisms is a cult now?
Tell us what religious organisation is not a cult. I'm still waiting for the politician who professes to have absolutely no "blind-faith" religious theories at all, and if they do ... please keep it to themselves!
Um, lets see- priests who rape children while telling grown women they have no control over their bodies, selling annulments while shouting about the sanctity of marriage, welcoming murderous mobsters who make contributions to the church, killing people while "expelling demons" from their bodies-doesn't sound like a cult- sounds like an extremely evil cult.
And President Obama is saying, "Thank you, Santa!" and "Happy New Year!". Romney can still seem sensible to the American people, despite his penchant for acquiring companies, stripping them of their assets, and firing all the workers. Santorum, on the other hand, looks reasonable, but turns out to be another nut case as soon as he opens his mouth. *Does* he have a foreign policy? Or any idea of how to do anything about the deficit?
Then again, if he really wants to follow the Bible, let's have a general forgiveness of debts--a jubilee, as it were. (oh, and good luck getting China to go along with that...).
But then, he's small government for rich people and big government for the rest of us.
You're the classic example of people that take one story and turn into a persons whole MO. I'll bet you won't mention the hundreds of thousands of jobs Romney created will you?
You have Zero Credibilty
Excessively Perky,
I forgot about the Julbilee : a year of forgiveness of debt. Wonder why Bachmann, Santorum, even Perry never bring up that ordinance of the the bible? ;0)
happy New Year.
excessivily perky. You are confusing Judasim and Christianity.
Judaism was to teach you that you are imperfect, fallen, and need redemption. The year of jubalee was intended to break the slavery of borrower to lender. It also gave hope that someone would come and redeem them from their sin and enemies.
Christianity is saying that Christ was the redeemer (sacrificed in our place) and the fufilling of the law. With him, there is no longer any need to sacrifice animals you kept in your home for seven days before you sacrificed them to pay for your disobedience (animals Adam and Eve knew were killed to give them their first garments).
Those practices are no longer required, but a greater, more perfect way to be the Christian practice.
This guy strikes me as a religious cult weirdo ...92% of the American people are against these cult members in " OUR GOVERNMENT " .The minute these weirdo's get in... peoples rights are violated ..they try to force their cult agendas down the throats of the American people ....and young boys seem to be violated..once they groom them ... I wont vote for this "BUM" or Ronmey either "birds of a feather " ! The people don't trust or believe either of these cult members !
Blah Blah Blah...........talk about being a weirdo. You go from how someone "strikes you" to having him convicted of molesting children.
You Libs will say anything to tear someone down. Unless it's another Lib.
Hypocrites!
And accuser. To those who have an understanding of Christianity - there is only one who accuses anyone.
God doesn't accuse - shouldn't we be more like God then?
DemsRToast,
Be careful, pots shouldn't talk about kettles. Using other people's philosophy as an epithet and pre-judging them for judging others is a bit hypocritical yourself, there.
I really wish folks would keep religion private and out of government.
Phine,
i don't think that is going to happen this cycle. :(
The Repubs are all for whipping up the fervor. You know they think God is literally leading them to the right candidate.
Forrest,
Santorum is a Catholic. And as I know from experience we are suspect in parts of the South. You know the pope and everything... so they might love him in Iowas but wait tillhe gets to SC or Florida.
Maybe we should take God off our currency and tell the House and Senate to stop starting every session with a prayer huh? Maybe we should fire the Senate Chaplain to boot.
You damn Libs will be the end of us.
DemRtoast 2012.
Abosultely not. I am all for pray. I am fine with cnadidates or elected officals talking about their personal faith whether Crhistian, jewish, Hindu, Muslim etc.
It is religious extremists who want to legialate their views about social issues for all of us that I oppose.
phinephancy-4252115
I really wish folks would keep religion private and out of government.
Me too phine;
These people are are just too ignorant and misinformed to know better.
Northstar - the struggle over potentially nominating a so called non-Christian (a mormon), a backslidden baptist, and a non-practicing presbyterian was because they were not asking God for their direction. They made judgements based on their own understanding, so the conservative vote was split leading to McCain gaining the nomination. Hopefully they have learned their lessons and are seeking God's direction.
I put 2008 in this light. 80% of the US voters were of the Christian faith. Half the Christians voted for Obama, and half voted for McCain. If they are supposed to be totally submitted to the will of God - which their profession states, then Half of them couldn't possibly be listening and submitting to God's will because he would have directed them all to ONE candidate.
And you libs are so stupid that you don't even realize that you are the worst offenders. Everything you libtards preach is right out of the bible - except that it urged the individual to be generous and you people want to force others to be generous to you and your causes. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give alms to the poor, aid the sick - all right out of the bible. As noted though, the difference is that libtards want to force others to obey their religious left commands and would never think that they should be giving instead of taking.
Thought. When the body is dead when the spirit is gone. According to a number of faiths, the religious beliefs are to be inseparable from the spirit of the person. To make them check their faith at the door, is like killing a part of them.
Fact, from the writings of the constitution. No progress was made on the writing of the Constitution until the framers began the work day, together in prayer. Then the polar opposites in matters of Christian faith dropped their version of faith as soley the correct one and cooperated in the framing of a constitution, that was both respectful of religious faith and non-religious faith, and that any mentions of religion in any way was deistic in nature.
By telling the religious that they are not welcome, their concerns are not wecome, is very disrespectul - don't you think? You cannot be the government of all the people, if you are not first respectful of all faiths first.
Watermoon - I appreciate you pointing out the great liberal hippocracy. Someone does need to point that out - but did you win them over? Or did you just feel better that you unloaded on them? Yeah I, know it's frustrating, but, a little more graciousness might go further in the long run.
They will never understand the point I made and there is no hope that I could win them over. So I replied in kind. You are correct in pointing this out. I will try to do better though - you make a good point. At least one person got the point. Probably more would understand if I could tone down the rhetoric.
DB Akron,
AH, THE "WILL OF GOD". Each of us must discern the will of God in our daily lives. God gave each human being reason and freewill. Faith builds on reason, not wiping it out. wW are not robots with God pulling the strings.
The God i know is much too busy to want to decide the outcome of a football game, a political election or even who wins a war. by the way God does not like war, but is a God of Peace that surpasses all understanding.
So you will decide who you will vote for for president and I will cast my vote.
Peace to you...
The lot is cast in the lap, it's every decision is from the Lord?
His eye is on the sparrow
And lastly - Laminin. He knows every detail as to what holds your smallest parts together. His seal is on your every cell.
Watermoon,
I understood your point - it's still nonsense. The values you describe far predate the Bible or Christianity. I don't want to help the poor and the sick because some god told me to or because I think I'll be rewarded for it. I want to help them because I can. If making other people's lives better isn't part of our purpose here in life, then what is?
The bizarre insistence on believing that Christianity somehow invented these sorts of ideals is incredibly egotistical. 'Liberals' like Jesus were preaching healing the sick and feeding the poor long before your religion was invented, and we'll be preaching it long after humanity evolves out of the need for religion.
Phine,
AS a devout christian I, I endorse this statement!
Unfortunately, for most, religious practice has nothing to do with faith, it has everything to do with proving to everyone else that you have some.
My name is Egilman, and I approve this message!
DB Akron: Watermoon - "I appreciate you pointing out the great liberal hippocracy."
Liberal hippocracy? Liberals are in favor of government by hippos? Who knew?
Egilman,
Well said.
What's funny is that US Catholics historically have been on the receiving end when church and state aren't fully separate, and the results aren't pretty. I doubt Santorum is even dimly aware of the consequences of what he seeks.
Rob Boston had a good commentary about Santorum's failure to understand the value of separating church and state, and his desire to have the government enforce the Catholic brand of sharia law:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/3/16/94259/6666
Look shrekk, there are millions of Catholics who oppose religion in the government. Plus, many Catholics, like me, are liberals, and we value the separation of church and state. Did JFK every bow down before the Pope, take orders from him, or even recognize him as his superior??? No, he did not. The reason that many religious people (Catholics included) are on the right is because of the action of conservatives and the bringing up of issues like abortion and gay marriage that are against the chief tenets of certain religions. I am personally a secular Catholic, who is religious but prefers to act in a secular way.
Ummmm......that was pretty much my point. For example, there's a reason why 71% of US Catholics support marriage equality - due to their religion's view of divorce they understand the important difference between a religious ritual and a legal contract. But unlike JFK, Santorum is in the 29% who cluelessly think their sharia laws being imposed on everyone.
I also doubt Santorum is aware of the persecution Catholics historically have experienced in the US, both at the hands of the state and of groups like the KKK.
Don't forget the Know-Nothings and the American Party.
At both Santorum events, religion was evident. In Sioux City several Santorum lines were greeted with "Amens." In Orange City, a pastor introduced him with a prayer. He called it an "honor to pray for Rick Santorum," who is "standing for righteousness even when it's not popular. ... We commit him to you, Lord."
That is exactly what I have been talking about, this is a bigger problem for Romney in the general election than republicans want to admit, but hey they have been merging their politics and religion for years now so if your nominee is not a Christian then how do you tell people all of a sudden it does not matter. How long before Mitt lets loose with a "Thank You Baby Jesus!" at a campaign event in Iowa, heck even Obama is a Christian, poor Mitt, can I get an Amen for Mitt.
Not an "Amen" for Mitt, but how about a "Hallelujah" for you Forrest? :)
OMG ! Someone said AMEN ? Get the pitchforks out!
The tolerance of the left? Ain't it nice!
Dems,
You are just plain nuts. Hate will do that to you.
If he is among a group of Christians he should participate. If he's a Christian, he shouldn't be acting like an athiest or the anti-christ should he?
DemsR,
How do you manage to miss the point so thoroughly every time?
We're commenting on the Republican base - on THEIR religious obsession and intolerance. Not ours. Pointing out that people are bigots is the responsibility of all free people who are sick of this kind of stupidity in their fellow citizens.
The republican base is not intolerant. I think that was proven by McCains defeat to Obama. The poor guy might have won with any other vp candidate than Palin. The republican base is not going to be voting on abortion or gay rights issues. The republican candidates are making a serious mistake if they think that way. You have to differentiate between the base and the fringe.
What truly amazes me is the 'small government' the GOP preachs, while writing more rules for 'who we sleep with, marry, and IF we have babies"... Oh yea, I forgot voter repression. We shouldn't regulate water, air, or safe roads, but we should regulate the bedrooms of Americans...
Really, can you name one of those laws they wrote? Or were they just trying to preserve existing laws like marriage between a man and a woman?
Tell us how they repress the vote? By requiring a valid I.D.? That's awful !
Really they are trying to preserve Roe vs Wade that has been the law for over 35 years, the election laws they want to change have been in place for many years, I could go on but your premise that they are just trying to preserve existing laws does not hold water.
So here is a website funded and run by Democrats. See what they say about voter fraud. Rally - watch it and send it out to all your friends.
http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/
And now you know one of the reaons why Hillary won't run.
Well Phine if Mitt is the nominee then I guess these type of voters will have to decide if they hate Barrack Obama more than they love Jesus Christ.
From what I have read here, I think they will go with the hate.
That poses a problem for them how are they going to beat the Christianity represented through government drum if they elect a non Christian president, at the highest level they are going to have to decide and then admit either it matters or it does not. It's a problem of their own making.
Obama is the king of hate. He has preached hatred for banks, corporations, oil companies, Fox News, Sarah Palin, insurance companies, George Bush, TEA Party, Capitalism, and so much more. And his loyal followers have marched goose step behind his lead as you can see in these posts. Now he has a billion dollars to spew this hatred over the next 12 months. He has no record to run on so he will run the most negtive hate filled campaign in history.
He does not hate me, we are pals.
Why do the libeals make such a big deal about the possibility that someone might hate the present president? Can any of them really say that they did not and do not George Bush? Is it some kind of reverse racism that one can hate a White guy but not a Black one?
Personallyy I don't hate as it is a dehumanizing vice that destroys the person indulging in it. Now about your feelings about George Bush, the TEA Party, Fox News, corporations, the GOP, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, - need I go on?
Watermoon,
If you're going to claim not to hate and then use terms like 'libtard', you're just going to sound like a hypocrite.
Forrest,
There aren't any non-Christians running for the Dems or the GOP this cycle. Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, etc are all Christians. Mormons are Christians, however much some Christians may want to deny that. By definition, if you believe that Jesus Christ was the divine Son of God and that he died to save mankind, you are a Christian, and Mormons believe that - Mormons just believe that there's more to the story than that. No Christian is empowered to decide who is and who is not a Christian - it's defined by one's beliefs, not one's associations.
You don't have to convince me of anything, Romney's religion is of no concern to me, you have to convince the evangelical base of the republican party, they mix religion and politics, I just point that fact out. Whether Mormons are Christians or not is not the point the point is that evangelical Christians by and large do not see them as such and I don't personally believe it should be a political factor,but it has in fact become that for many republicans, to such an extent that they now campaign on religion, one religion, and only one religion.
Gee, Forrest, if that's true, why is it the ONLY people constantly bringing up Romney's religion are liberals?
I'm beginning to believe it might be an agenda, or something. Maybe even driven by the DNC.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I've got that email somewhere.
Along with the one that urged people to destroy their family Christmas gatherings by preaching about how wonderful a president Obama has been, and why he should be re elected. Your team should be a little more careful about sending those out- they seem not to know that they are not all sent to cult members.
What do you think the response from the electorate will be once the Romney camp makes those public? Cause, I'm pretty sure he will- just as soon as he gets the nomination.
Going to be pretty bad, I think. Americans do not like religious intolerance- not one little bit.
So, you just go on along and keep spouting your fifth grade mean girl drivel. It's going to come back to haunt you.
"MNWriter: Forrest, There aren't any non-Christians running for the Dems or the GOP this cycle."
Too bad. I'd love to have a candidate stand up and say he/she is an atheist or agnostic. They might get creamed at the polls. Or who knows? There might be enough people who are sick to death of listening to candidates trying to out-Christian each other that they might vote for them just to shut the others up.
nojoe,nobo:
Your entire post is "fifth grade mean girl drivel"
But it doesn't negate the fact that the Evangelical Right Wing CRAZIES think Mormons aren't Christian's.
Elections should be about government policies NOT religious beliefs OR social issues!
I rest my case.
[In fact, I'm pretty sure I've got that email somewhere.]
Yep, so do I...it's still in the spam folder....
Pitiful, nojo...even for you. You've sunk to a new low. That happens when you spread propaganda.
Forrest,
Glad to hear you aren't holding to that ridiculousness, but your post was very ambiguous on it - it wasn't clear if you were being sarcastic.
Nojoe,
As for you, please grow up. On the other hand, we agree that Americans don't like religious intolerance. why do you think so few of us identify with the Tea Party or as Republicans?
No MNWriter I don't think politics and religion should be mixed, the founding fathers understood that as well and spelled out the sepearation of church, I bring it because it is now a factor in politics for many people, mainly republicans. I was not trying to be sarcastic, and I agree many Americans do not like religious intolerance, but many are just fine with it to be truthful that is what evangelicals are about, converting people, thats what evangelizing means. Many people still claim Obama is a Muslim, and if he was it should matter not, but look at how they treat that religion they say the word as if it was an insult and not the most popular religion on the planet. Republican media can not speak about this openly and I am just pointing that out, but it is a factor, their candidates openly campaign on their religion, they promote a single religion through politics and now it is a potential problem for Romney, just the honest political truth. Maybe they will start to back down on some of this mixing of religion and politics, but it looks like some of Romney's fellow candidates are playing the religion thing for all it is worth in Iowa. Religion and politics should be kept separate they go together like Nitrogen and Glycerin.
Happy New Year NJNB, sorry if I offended your delicate sense political correctness and fair play, by simply pointing out that Romney is not what many republicans demand, and wondering how that will play out politically.
I wonder what happened to the Republican Party of old. Not the one from the 80s or the 50s, but back in about 1900. They may have been imperialistic, but at least they were promoting liberal policies. One of the only Republican presidents that I respect is Abe Lincoln. Right now he'd be criticized by the GOP as too liberal. So would Reagan; surprising that most conservatives don't seem to know (or ignore) the fact that he was once a democrat. Then during the 1920s they turned against their policy of progressiveness and went to regressiveness (a.k.a. big business). I recently read an article on how the chaos in Western governments is impeding the recovery and speeding up the rise of developing nations like China. But to all those concerned about America's decline and China's rise, China is experiencing some of its own problems, most notably a property bubble, increased debt among local governments, slowing growth, and political problems, mostly caused by lack of freedom and also a huge population. Looks like the world is in for a rocky year. I hope the Democrats somehow retake the House and secure a super majority in the Senate, or at least the Tea Party get damaged (a possible likely), Obama is re-elected, and the Democrats at least maintain control of the Senate and gain more seats in the House. I hope that somehow Congress does something to avoid partisan gridlock and restore our nation's economy supremacy and power. I would give ideas, but right now I'm just not in the mood. Plus I've put them on so many times that it would be like regurgitating.
Obama isn't hated. He seems to be an O.K. guy.
As a President....he sucks big time. Just got boosted to the wrong job is all. He would make an excellent waiter for sure.
[He would make an excellent waiter for sure.]
Yeah, gotta make sure we keep them blacks waiting on tables, right Joefus?
"an excellent waiter"? Really? Racist much?
If a white president, a white Christian man, whether Republican or Democrat, had accomplished the things President Obama has, you and every other blatant/latent racist would be hoisting him on your shoulders and cheering.
If you have a job, you should thank him. If the Republicans had taken the White House and Congress in 2008 and perpetuated the policies they're hawking now, we'd be in another Great Depression and probably another pointless, illegal American soldier-slaughtering war to profit some company like Halliburton. If they take it in 2012, we'll head right back down the same path that led to Iraq, the recession, worse health outcomes than third-world countries (we already have a higher infant mortality rate than Indonesia), lower educational standards than India and China, and the continuation of the golden-egg-laying-goose -killing phenomenon of the 1%--a 1% that seems intent on destroying the country, the pillars of our sucess--health, education, infrastructure and natural resources--and the economic engine that created it, the middle class.
Jobs have lagged recovery--measured in largely untaxed corporate and elite individual profits--because companies learned they could make more profit on less volume with far fewer workers working more productively. Nothing wrong with that by itself, but those jobs are never coming back. The 1% have not in any way "earned" or deserved their far out-of-whack riches, they have stolen it like feudal lords from the people who produced it and deserve a more fair share of it. At this point, taxing it isn't redistribution, it is overdue restitution.
The 1% DOES NOT create jobs. They are not "job creators." The middle class creates jobs through demand. If the middle class has no money, is denied a fair share of the profit it creates, there is no demand. It is that simple.
Only one presidential candidate is talking about and working toward rebuilding America's health, education and infrastructure--neatly destroyed by 20 years of Reagan/Bush toadying for corporate pillagers. Only one presidential candidate is talking about doing this while investing in the new directions that will actually create jobs in the future. And only one candidate can point to turning the recession around, capturing Osama Bin Laden, saving thousands of lives--including mine--already with the Health Care Reform Act, etc., etc.
If you want to live "under God" in a religious state, go live in Iran and see how it works out for you. If you want to dismember public education, continue driving our nation's health down, drive on crumbling highways and falling bridges, send your sons and daughters to be killed and maimed for corporate profit, etc., etc., take your bobble-head candidates and go found your own fundamentally anti-American country. Far, far away, please.
Well, gee, what does it say that I, who had campaigned for Carter, came to believe that he would have a much better outcome if he, too, pursued a career in the food service industry? Possibly flipping burgers under those Golden Arches?
Drug yourself with the delusion that Obama's myriad failures are a result of racism- certainly, he does. Does not alter the truth one iota- Obama is a bigger failure than Carte- and would be if his skin color were purple.
See, it is caused by the fact that he is a narcissistic ideologue, who maintains his convictions that his Ivory tower, perfect world solutions will improve matters- despite empiracle evidence to the contrary.
That makes him both a moron, and an abject failure. Race does not enter the equation- nor does it alter the outcome.
joe e he has done more than his life than you. Your still wet dreaming about just getting out of your mama's basement.
no joe no bo nj you put the wrong name in your rant that sounds more like Newt.
Still gonna carry that bitterness over to 2012, eh nojo?
Congratulations, you've amounted to nothing.
no joe,
If he is a failure, you are a dismal waste of life by comparison - so I wouldn't make that comparison, if I were you. You actually aren't qualified to judge whether or not Obama is a failure, only whether or not he is worthy of your vote. I assure you, most of the country feels quite differently about him.
The overcompensation from the right, DESPERATE to convince themselves that Obama is a failure, has been amazing to watch. You were spouting it before he even took office. We get it - conservatives voted for a moron, TWICE, and he burned you. You supported him, and he made you look like idiots. We're sorry, but don't blame us - we didn't vote for him. Don't overcompensate by trying to convince everyone that anyone who you DIDN'T vote for must be a bigger failure. It's pathetic.
That is a great point. The republicans probably would get more support if they would get off the Obama is a failure platform. Some people will vote for him just to prove you wrong. Its a given fact that people respond more to positive messages than negative ones, and so far the GOP has been sadly lacking in that area.
Santorum = earmark specilist + career polititian - real world experience
This story makes me embarrassed to be from that part of the country...
Senator Sanitarium is not a "true conservative". A real conservative is someone like former Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona (remember him?). Known as "Mr. Conservative" in his time, Senator Goldwater believed in a strict interpretation of the Constitution. He always insisted on the Constitutional test before legislation progressed any further. He sought to repeal old and irrelevant laws that did not meet the Constitutional test. In 1981, he said , "Religion should not be part of public policy". When the Moral Majority started to make noise in the early '80s, Goldwater said, "Every good American should stand up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass". He didn't care if a serviceman was gay. If a soldier could shoot straight, that's all that mattered to him. Goldwater kept the government out of our bedrooms and private lives. He believed in the Constitution. He believed in Freedom of Religion and Freedom From Religion. He was a true American Conservative. Wish we had someone like him running for President instead of the current phony bunch.
WE do have someone running like that with the same beliefs, Dr Paul.
Thank you. Goldwater was a conservative. These reactionaries are a bunch of clowns.
Egilman,
Ron Paul is not a Goldwater conservative. If you think he is, you need to read a great deal more about Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater.
Seriously, Paul supporters - if you support him, great. Declare his virtues, if you will. But you're starting to sound like a cult, and while I don't personally care if you worship Paul or not, no one is going to take you seriously if you talk like that. Know why most of America considers him unelectable and his supporters a bit unhinged? That's why.
Santorum? Seriously? It's fun/depressing to watch these GOP "flavor of the month" candidates fall over each other trying to see who can be more right wing in Iowa. But Santorum? Really? What ever happened to separation of church and state? He may fool conservatives in Iowa (it doesn't seem too difficult) but his religious schtick won't fly in the rest of the country.
BTW... It's sad that 100,000 conservative white people in Iowa have so much influence on presidential elections.
Pittsburgh Mark
So what do we do, take them out behind the old gas station and shoot them?
Or maybe we can just pass a law that says the first 100K conservative white people in Iowa don't get to vote?
I'd like to hear your suggestion?
Or perhaps they could hold primary elections instead of these bizarre caucuses.
Caucuses aren't bizarre, in fact that's the way it used to be universally done. It forced the candidates to get out and meet the people, foot on the ground kiss the babies press the flesh that sort of thing.
A voting primary only allows the candidates to not have to "dirty" themselves with actual real live people.
The problem is that "the Iowa caucuses" seem to have SO much power!
Iowa does NOT represent the entire country's views anymore (if they ever did?)
The right wing extremism is ridiculously overwhelming in Iowa and that is about it!
Egilman: "Caucuses aren't bizarre, in fact that's the way it used to be universally done."
OK, bad choice of words. Going back to the post about "100,000 conservative white people in Iowa" having so much influence, what I was thinking was that it would seem that in a caucus system, a really dedicated small group who were adept at grass roots organizing could hijack the process (something the evangelical conservative crowd is very good at).
On the other hand, they are also quite good at taking over party organizations at the grass roots level in non-caucus states as well, so perhaps singling out the caucuses was misguided on my part.
Ben R,
This is why a good organized ground game is needed, you have to get your people to the caucus to elect the delegates, this is the root of and where get out the vote means the most.
The Iowa caucuses aren't that meaningful - ever noticed their success rate at selecting the eventual nominee? It isn't that great. It's just one early election that shows a nice clear view of one part of the Republican base - the white evangelical part that's represented in Iowa. It's an interesting poll taken of one demographic in a formal setting, that's all. The actual vote doesn't mean anything at all anyway, it doesn't select delegates. It's just a straw poll.
Fetterman said he, too, liked Bachmann, but the endorsement of a local pastor made up his mind. Plus, Bachmann’s slide in the polls, he said, made this clear to him: “I don’t think the people of America are ready to put a woman in office.”
They would have elected Hillary if she hadn't blown her campaign for the nomination. As far as Bachman is concerned, maybe most Americans just aren't ready to put a total dunderhead in the White House.
Oh how cute our little taliban lites are. Be very very quite,they think they are the only ones going to heaven.
What a bunch of hicks.
Not a democrat or a republican. My question is, if their beliefs are that important and if they truly feel Rick Santorum best represents their beliefs, where does the "electability" question enter in? Either they are voting their conscience or they are voting their party. I don't think voting strictly party lines is the smartest thing to do, but if that's what they want to do, why bring their "beliefs" into it?
Is Iowa full of right wing religious nuts ? Are there some normal people in that State ?
Lots of them - why do you think only a tiny fraction of Iowans vote in the Republican caucuses?
I think people are voting beyond their religious beliefs. Unless you are getting a complete anti-God candidate out there, I just don't think it is the determining factor in how one votes.
I guess I should be rooting for Santorum. Romney is the only candidate who could actually win. Gingrich is corrupt beyond description, Perry is as dumb as a bag of rocks, not to mention his sexual issues, Paul, who I once respected, has turned out to be a racist and a liar as well as a disaster waiting to happen in foreign policy. Bachmann is a vicious nutcase (all Democrats should take an oath of allegiance, remember?), Herman the molester is out, and Huntsman, who actually seems to be a reasonable, intelligent conservative, can get no traction with today's Republican party, naturally.
What a zoo. Impressive field. I thought the Democrats were weak with Kerry/Edwards.
-he is true conservative - translation - he is a jesus freak - end of story - some morons will vote for someone because they worship the same mythical being - end of story - tea party , palin, bachman, perry -all one in the same that is your common thread - perry especially is a complete dope , but he believes in jesus so he should run the country, how is that working out for texas - a desert with no water cattle or crops
It never stops at any age, does it? "Losers" never do any thing wrong, it is always someone else's fault when the loser has their flaws pointed out.
Santorum surge is all media hype
He draws in a but a few dozen supporters ...... Perry could count them without using his fingers
Get your religion, out of my face, out of my government and out of my wallet!
I am a Catholic who would NEVER vote for Santorum.
Religion has no place in Politics.
I am also an Army Vet who is sick of pointless wars.