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Subscribe to RSSAfter days of silence, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is calling on the House GOP to pass the two-month payroll-tax-cut extension -- and for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (R-NV) to appoint negotiators to work with the House on a long-term deal after that extension is passed.
"House Republicans sensibly want greater certainty about the duration of these provisions, while Senate Democrats want more time to negotiate the terms," his statement says. "These goals are not mutually exclusive. We can and should do both."
House Speaker John Boehner's office had this response: "The House and Senate have two different bills, but the same goal," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said. "That is why we believe, as Senator McConnell suggested, the two chambers should work to reconcile the two bills so that we can provide a full year of payroll tax relief -- and do it before year's end."
This morning, Boehner's office says he called President Obama to urge action on a one-year extension, but president Obama declined.
"Today, Speaker Boehner called President Obama to discuss the Speaker's desire to provide a full year of tax relief for American families before December 31st," a Boehner aide said in a written statement. "With Senator Reid having declined to call his Members back to Washington this week to join the House in negotiating a full-year extension of the payroll tax cut, the Speaker proposed that the President send members of his economic policy team up to Congress to find a way to accommodate the President's full-year request. The Speaker explained his concern that flaws in the Senate-passed bill will be unworkable for many small business job creators. He reiterated that if their shared goal is a one-year bill, there is no reason an agreement cannot be reached before year's end. The President declined the Speaker's offer."
A Democratic leadership aide said Senate Democrats are "happy" to begin negotiating with the House once Boehner says he'll hold a vote and pass the Senate two-month payroll-tax-cut extension.
"We have been saying all along that if the House passes the Senate's compromise to ensure there is no tax hike on Jan. 1, we can immediately begin negotiating the full-year extension," the aide said. "It's important to now hear from the Speaker. As we have said, we are happy to start negotiating a full-year extension when the House passes the short-term compromise."
Here is McConnell's full statement:
"The House and Senate have both passed bipartisan bills to require the President to quickly make a decision on whether to support thousands of U.S. manufacturing jobs through the Keystone XL pipeline, and to extend unemployment insurance, the temporary payroll tax cut and seniors' access to medical care. There is no reason why Congress and the President cannot accomplish all of these things before the end of the year. House Republicans sensibly want greater certainty about the duration of these provisions, while Senate Democrats want more time to negotiate the terms. These goals are not mutually exclusive. We can and should do both. Working Americans have suffered enough from the President's failed economic policies and shouldn't face the uncertainty of a New Year's Day tax hike. Leader Reid should appoint conferees on the long-term bill and the House should pass an extension that locks in the thousands of Keystone XL pipeline jobs, prevents any disruption in the payroll tax holiday or other expiring provisions, and allows Congress to work on a solution for the longer extensions."
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Time to eat some crow Boehner. That may help your leadership skills. This isn't about the president's leadership. We are talking about your leadership. For once, get those tea party deadbeats into line!
After GOP/Koch said NO three times to the President's American Jobs Act and 2 million jobs:
GOP keeps regurgitating the lie about "thousands of Keystone Pipeline jobs".
McConnell has the brass face to use the lie now, to try and force a quick agreement about the Keystone Pipeline that supports A MASSIVE ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER, and in reality VERY FEW PERMANENT JOBS for the United States.
We know that the hold-up hostage taking is about extracting the maximum Koch/Big Oil deal they can finaigle and bully the President about, and NOT ABOUT PAYROLL TAX CUTS for the middle class.
TIME TO BLINK, BOEHNER
The headline had me doing a double take .... lol
Bye Bye Tea Party ...... Bye Bye Boehner!!!
Backhouse - I agree with most of what you say. Here is the thing, sometimes you have to stand up to the bully. The president should use the veto if they add the XL pipeline. If he is afraid to veto because of the policital heat (2012 election), he better at least get something else like real permanent jobs with some type of "jobs bank" legislation or an agreement to improve infrastructure even if it is through public private partnerships.
It is sad that the AJA slowly morphed into let's build a pipeline over sensitive wetlands and an acquifer. Perhaps get unemployment extensions and create further dependence on receiving an extra C note a month at the detriment to Social Security funding.
Not really.
Anytime the House and Senate pass different versions of a bill, the bill is supposed to go to a conference committee to resolve the differences. The Senate violated this with an Autocratic accept our version or you are to blame for no extention. The Senate was sworn to "uphold" the constitution, not over throw it for some political cheap shot!
A good compromise has also been offered of a three month extention. The other rude thing about the 2 month extention is that it is inconsiderate on how business works. Business works in increments of Quarterly, Annually and Three year planning units - NOT 2 months.
Backhouse, so true.
The republicans suddenly realized that for all their 2010 campaign promises about creating jobs, jobs, jobs they had done nothing, in fact they had blocked every attempt to create jobs. Now they throw in the Keystone XL Pipeline as a token and start talking job-creating while ignoring that GOP Governors, state and federal legislators requested President Obama put a hold on it and that an additional study be done to find a route that does not endanger the region's water supply. The GOPers are either getting dumber by the day to think the American people won't notice the ploy or desperate, probably both.
The Keystone pipe line HAS NO BUSINESS being in the tax cut extension bill. That's politics, pure and simple!
Shame on the Teapublicans - and shame on the Republicans for going along with the minority Teapublicans.
The President said the Pipeline would be re-addressed in 2013.
GOP/Koch/BigOil is doing everything they can to bend that agreement and holding our payroll tax cuts hostage at Christmas. What do they care?
In any case, the pipeline review process involves NEPA and a complicated slew of legal issues that cannot be hurried.
GOP/KochOil is spoiled, greedy for $$more and $$more and they want it speeded up, no matter what the risk or cost to millions of ordinary Americans.
jrae:
Oh so now you're saying Democrats NEVER attach riders to bills? Is that what I'm hearing?
BY you and the rest calling names "TeaPublicans, GNOP, GTP, etc..." does not help the situation. That gets to be very old and I don't blame some of those Republicans for not working for compromise.
When Republicans call on Obama to "provide leadership," what they really mean is that they want the President to baby sit them again. Come on Boehner, dry your tears and grow up!
TO: IntheMiddle, TX who wrote:
Oh, now Republicans want to call their earmarks "riders"? Isn't it true that Republicans are trying to change the name because they lied when they promised NOT to ask for anymore "earmarks" if they took control of the House?
Yeah, maybe telling lies and trying to cover up by changing a name works for some Teabaggers, but it sure doesn't work for the majority of the American People, and perhaps Republicans are ok with their "failure to compromise" but all that actually does is help the House to get a grade of "F-" when you ask everyday Americans what they think about the job congress is doing.
DB Akron, you couldn't be more wrong. The House hasn't even voted on this bill. How can they negotiate a bill that the house hasn't even voted on yet? The house wants to send it to committe before even voting on it. Let them stand on their principals, unless they are afraid the voter is watching (and trust me they are). It's common knowledge that if this does come to vote, it will pass, and orange man doesn't want it to. Please stop with your constitution nonsense. The senate bill passed with a huge majority of both parties. The proposed House bill wasn't even close to a 'bipartisan' bill since it had literally no Democratic support.
A bald faced lie to state that the house bill was bipartisan.
Orange man needs to accept that he's not going to win this one, weep into his toast, and move on. The GOP fought tooth and nail to keep tax breaks for millionaires. Those same tax breaks that have done squat for the economy over the last decade, yet we have to scrape and beg to keep a tax cut for the common man. I guess we see where their allegiance is.
Yellowdog. The portion of legislation regarding the pipeline was modified to require a decision either yes or no, it does not require approval; it provides President Obama the option of saying "no". That is the reason the White House withdrew the veto threat in order to at least get Congress to extend the tax cuts, unemployment benefits and the medicare payment issue before they expired on Jan 1. While I do not like that the GOP stuck the pipeline on to the bill once again taking millions of Americans hostage, I think the wording makes the compromise palitable. Call me an optimist but I think that in the end, the pipeline issue will revert back to the one-year delay President Obama authorized earlier. If the GOP keeps pushing it, they risk killing it completely because their own party's governors and state and federal legislators object to it.
DB Akron, in order for the House and Senate to require a conference and merge the bills requires the House to vote on a bill first. They have not done that. They refuse to bring the Senate bill to the floor to allow debate and modification; therefore, there is nothing to confer. If they revise the Senate bill and pass their revision, only then is a conference held to merge the two differing bills.
Stop it McConnell! Where have been the jobs you've talked about for the last year, but have done absolutely nothing in Congress but pass phoney baloney legislation, which we all are aware of. We're not all stupid. And I say "no" to the Keystone pipeline, "no" to the cut of unemployment benefits, "no" to drug testing the unemployed. I say "no" to all your BS poison pills. Just negotiate the tax cuts for the 160,000,000 people you are presently intending to screw over. Then when you all come back to negotiate, allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, and move on....what a lame bunch of supposed grown ups! You can't just keep putting money into the billionaires pockets and pay for it on our backs! And if you want jobs, then work with the President to get the jobs bill passed and funding for it. Lame, lame, lame and nothing but a bunch of lobbyists and shills for their corporate masters.
Hey I'm with all the other hardline hypocrit libs. I want my extra $40 a week per family stolen from the social security funds. Those old folks don't need it. They can eat dog food instead of chicken and I can give the money to Big Oil for more gas to waste in my SUV.
And the hell with creating any jobs...especially union jobs. Thanks libs...hang tough.
AG, An earmark asks for money. This rider is asking for a decision. One that Obama put off for pure political reasons. This pipeline has been studied for 3 years. It doesn't need an additional year of study until , conveniently, after the election.
DB Akron,
RE: your post #1.4
You have conveniently left out one big essential FACT. The House of Representatives is supposed to be able to vote on a bill BEFORE ANY conferencing. Oh! Now you remember the WHOLE TRUTH! You 'righties' just cannot tell the WHOLE TRUTH. I wonder why, don't you?
The only permanent jobs that pipeline will create are for the guys in hazmat suits mopping up sludge and cleaning birds. But what does that matter to these shills? They don't live anywhere near it.
DJ & scrambolo
The House voted and passed a bill. They sent it the Senate who changed it. Why do you two think that the House has to just accept the changes? Are you aware that the Senate put in language that all new mortages are going to have to pay extra per month to pay for your lousy ass 2% cut in your payroll tax? That extra money will come mostly from lower income Americans because it is attached to Fannie and Freddie mortgages only. What is it with liberals that they scream and cry when they don't get a lousy 2% tax cut?
the house already passed a bill...passed it before the senate. now let's let the house and the senate negotiate the differences between the house bill and the senate bill! this does not go in boehner's lap, folks....this is with dirty harry! you keep talking about how the repubs keep saying my way or the highway...well, that's what obumo is saying to the house. hypocrits!!!!!
Sorry JH, but that "lousy" twenty bucks could put gas in someones car or put dinner on the table. I doubt very much that everyone who enjoyed the extra money in their check is a liberal. Poor post my friend.
Then, there is this little item
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/boehner-asks-white-house-to-negotiate-but-obama-declines-invitation/
Boehner asked Obama to get constructively involved- and Obama says NO.
Who, exactly, is using this as a political football again?
No small surprise that the Team Obama site utterly ignores it, of course.
JH-479998,
The senate passed the AMENDED bill OVERWHELMINGLY, by a vote of 89 to 10. ALL Republicans voted for this bill except 7. That is by far bipartisan. You conveniently left out the FACT that the House did NOT even allow a vote on the amended bill. I hope the House does not pass this bill. It will not affect me personally but if it fails the GOP/TP will have 'egg' all over their face. If you don't believe me check the remarks by the REPUBLICANS in the Senate and the House. If proceedure were followed, John Boehner would allow a House vote on the amended Senate bill. He won't, because he knows it would pass with bipartisan support. This would just irk the hell out of the TP members in the House. They control Boehner and he does not control them! This is a case of the TP Tail wagging the Republican Dog. And you know that is true. Who are you trying to kid brother?
Yesterday I posted I wasn't for Boehner's rethoric on this bill. I surprised a couple of you out there by what I said. Today I have a different take on it.
The question you have to ask is... why is Boehner doing what he's doing. I already know the standard liberal squeals of Koch, et al, but that's a cover liberals, for anything that doesn't seem to fit your agenda. Especially if you don't want to understand it, blame it on Koch... If you can't get past that basic liberal line, you'll never be able to figure it out and get down to understanding it, or arming yourself to fight it.
Boehner's doing it as a stand-off. It's just that simple. Everyone that's against him on it is screaming that Boehner's not for the working man... he wants to take money out of your pocketbook. Who's doing the screaming. I'm not. Boehner's saying that it's a waste of time to renegotiate the same deal again within 2 months. I have a tendency to agree with him. What needs to be negotiated in the extension of payroll tax cuts anyway? Shouldn't there be no strings attached to it? Why do a stopgap measure? Do it for a year, or don't do it. What the democrats want is more opportunity to add more crap to it before it goes to vote for a full year. How does one stop the democrats from adding to bills? Don't bring them up.
As far as the pipeline goes, what IS the friggen problem with building it? A little movement in Nebraska, to the governors liking and the problem is solved. Imagine liberals screaming that bringing more oil into the country for distribution is a bad thing... bad for whom? I swear when it comes to common sense, some people were fast tracked throught that distribution line.
You complain about lack of common sense while still believing the fairy tale that we're going to get some kind of automatic ownership or super-duper discount rate on the oil that comes through Keystone XL?
Wow.
@Backhouse- I agree with you 100%! If making a deal with Boehner means swallowing Keystone, I'd happily go without the tax break.
JPSOTW, get informed, or stop lying. The money is not coming out of Social Security.
DB Akron -- When the House and Senate pass different versions of a bill it does not have to go to conference, and in fact rarely does nor has in a long time. Like the filibuster that Teapublicans so enjoy abusing, it is now just a threat to filibuster. An actual filibuster (e.g. reading from a book all day) never occurs.
Three things to note. First the House wasted their chance and valuable time passing a ridiculous, right-wing version that made their bill a non-starter (rather than a bill that would come close to something to conference). Because the House ran down the clock with this stunt, now there is no time to conference, even if it was deserved and it isn't.
But ultimately the Senate majority and Dems in both chambers have agreed to conference as it were, by passing a short two-month extension that allows time to negotiate the large differences. But Boehner doesn't want to negotiate in that way for several reasons: 1) he wants cover internally by using a committee, 2) if the committee fails, and committees always fail, then he and Teapublicans in the House hope they can blame both Parties in both chambers, and 3) he wants to look like he stood up to the Senate and in particular to the president to save his own career.
Now I personally don't give a sh!t about Boener's career, or cover for the Teapublicans with such poilitical stunts, but rather I and the majority care about the people who are still struggling and about improving the economy. Not only will the extension help folks a little longer, it will add to the GDP. Teapublican willingness and even desire to hurt the economy is beyond reprehensible, and they need to know this isn't going to be accepted.
Also, blackmail and hostage-taking to circumvent our constitutional democracy to get all the goodies they want can no longer be allowed. It's one of the despicable tactics that have made this congress the worst congress I've witnessed in my lifetime. I am proud of the Dems and the president, and even McConnell who has at least the good sense to know the machinations by a minority in one chamber is hurting the entire Republican Party brand.
But by now most Americans have seen this game enough times to know that it won't stop until the Tea Party caucus is thrown out. I hope the people will throw the Teabaggers out in the coming election.
everyone in Washington knows the fica tax reduction will be renewed until after the next election, Boehner has it correct, extend the damn thing for a full year, get it off the table, so Congress can tackle the big problems headed our way in 2012; if they started the pipeline today, it will be 10 years before the first drop of oil hits the giant refinery's in Texas and Louisiana, it will make North America totally and independent of all foreign oil from outside North America, build the damn thing, remember the 'Best little whore house in Texas movie", it is all about getting votes, not about what may be the correct thing to do , Washington another word for dysfunctional .
its amazeing ,, Boehner keeps asking the president to step up and show leadership ... apparently Boehner wants the POTUS to do his job for him
Ernie-
Since your so informed, maybe you can explain to everyone what you think FICA funds. Here's a small cluefor you: SOCIAL SECURITY!!! I love it when people shoot their mouths off and show their ignorance. ROTFLMAO!!
Anytime the House and Senate pass different versions of a bill, the bill is supposed to go to a conference committee to resolve the differences. The Senate violated this with an Autocratic accept our version or you are to blame for no extention. The Senate was sworn to "uphold" the constitution, not over throw it for some political cheap shot!
And what exactly would you call the House and Senate Republicans signing the oath to Grover Norquist?
A good compromise has also been offered of a three month extention. The other rude thing about the 2 month extention is that it is inconsiderate on how business works. Business works in increments of Quarterly, Annually and Three year planning units - NOT 2 months.
IMO it is up to business to conform to the will of the American people, not the other way around!
We can be totally independant with regard to energy through alternative energy. Why must we depend so much on oil?
I agree with Boehner in that the extension should be 1 year. Get it on an up or down vote leaving the pipeline for another time. Boehner and his ilk have whined about up or down votes before, yet when we really need one and they are in charge oooooh nooooo they don't bother. What a buch of loser with the biggest of those losers being cying Johnny himself.
saxon - Where do you get these talking points? The pipeline not designed to provide oil to North America. It was designed to export diesel to Europe, Asia and Latin America. This will have zero effect on our reliance on foreign oil and zero effect on our fuel prices. The only one making out on this deal is the Oil Companies. I mentioned Grover Norquist in the post above, well guess who is lobbing for the pipeline...you guest it!
There's a school of thought that suggests that if you move far enough to one side politically, you'll meet the other side... And oh, I'm afraid it may be happening to me!
As a progressive, I suport the President but don't think he goes far enough on most issues. As part of the 99% though, I bust my a** working overtime to provide for my family and still struggle to make ends meet... part of the "poor elite" if you will. And I actually find myself agreeing with Boehner on this one!
What?, you say... well hear me out socialists...
For the moment, forget that the left totally caved (yet again), and gave-in to the right on everything they wanted to attach to this bill (hands-off rich people's money, the XL pipeline, etc.), just so people like me could catch a break for another two months while they fight over it some more. In this case, I believe Boehner and my tea party brothers and sisters are trying to say, "Don't throw what's left of the middle-class a two-month bone... give them a meaningful, long-term tax break." But the Senate is saying "Nope... two months is all we can agree on before we pack-it-in to go visit our loving families for the holidays."... well, screw those people!
Frankly, I want a long-term deal, and I think it's their patriotic duty as lawmakers to tell their families that Christmas will have to wait until they get their collective disfunction in order and actually finish the work of the American people!!... Look, if it's 11:59 New Year's eve and they still can't compromise, then fine, we'll take the two months. But for the days, hours and minutes until then... get your a**es back to work, you civil servants!
Boehner and the tea party are all about drawing lines in the sand to get their point across... and I get that it's inconvenient for congress to act right now... but that's the point of making a stand and saying, "If not now, when? When will you work for the people and not yourselves?" Because when there's all the time in the world, they refuse to agree on anything. At least with the metaphorical gun of getting home to see their kid open up his G.I. Joe with the Kung-Fu grip pointed at their heads, they might actually entertain the idea of (*gulp*)... compromise.
Could Boehner and friends actually be up to something sneakier?... Normally I wouldn't put it past them, but this time, I'll take him at face value and agree on general principles... Yes, I believe the Senate should come back and let congress throw an end-of-year touchdown instead of punting.
... and since I'm on my soapbox, let me talk about this XL Pipeline for a moment...
It's funny how the right assails the left on spending projects, yet "has to have" this pipeline. It seems that they're not so much against spending, as long as its spending on "their" projects... well, at least its not war this time (sorry, had to get that jab in). But you know what?... I'm fine with a Canada to Mexico pipeline... IF, they go big! (I guess "progressive" doesn't necessarily mean, "environmentalist".)
I've posted many times my belief that "America needs a project", not just a jobs bill. And by project, I mean something we can take national pride in thats tangible and monumental in scope. In fact, here's exactly what I said:
OK, a pipeline... Fine. But make it a HUGE pipeline! Maybe make it bring oil AND fresh water, and have it generate electricity along the way. Whatever!... But make it monumental and only give out the contracts to American businesses employing American workers. That's economic stimulus I can get behind, which takes "progressive" leadership I'd vote for.
Thanks for your attention.
-M
(humor for the day: if PROgress means "to move forward", what does CONgress mean?) :)
@ JPSOTW
Reducing the Social Security payroll taxes paid by employees by 2 percentage points (to 4.2 percent) obviously brings in less money for Social Security. But the trust fund isn’t suffering as a result. The government must cover the shortfall with general fund money.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/12/bachmann-wrong-on-social-security-jobs-debt/
In other words, it's a temporary tax cut for the working man covered with regular income tax from everyone. The worker gets a 2% tax cut which everyone else that doesn't pay FICA won't get.
This is a temporary solution until the economy gets back on track. That's one reason why Obama wanted to place a surtax on millionaires to cover the lost but the Republicans are so set on protecting the wealthy that they rejected Obama's plan. Not surprising since they have been anti-Obama from day one. If Obama says the sky is blue the Republicans will argue it isn't and send everyone of their shills on FOX to deny it with their given talking points. Republicans need to get their head out of their posterior and pass legislation that helps the common people for a change before the next election hits them in the rear.
One other thing. Boehner talking about making it a one year thing so businesses can plan their business is a joke. Businesses have accountants that do the book keeping so others can plan their business according to supply and demand. What or how the payroll is made is a completely different department than business planning.
Certainly payroll has a direct bearing on price of the product but not because of a cut in FICA tax. The price of the product would not drop a penny because of the employer paying a little less money. It would just go in the business coffer as a profit. Not a bad thing except for the Republican's greed of wanting it fixed for a full year when it may not be necessary.
People, if you're going to post, at least read other posts before you do. How many times do we need to read the same misguided right-wing garbage? saxon-- You in particular, do you really believe that BS? Thanks Ol_Doc for responding to that. And Larry and others. My patience is wearing thin.
michaellittell-- The socialist comment makes your post suspect, but once again please read posts above. My post #1.27 explains why we are now stuck with a two-month extension to negotiate a one-year extension. The one-year spin from Boehner, or worse the claim that the House gave the president everything he wanted, are such big transparent lies, I can't believe anyone falls for it.
There will be a one-year deal. How it is funded, or how generous it may be we will have to wait and see. There are some things that just aren't going to happen, like drug testing the unemployed. But there will be a one-year extension, the backlash concern by Republicans in the Senate tells us this.
@TruePatriot: 1 word (out of all those) and now I'm a suspect... I swear I was in the lounge with Ms. Scarlet the whole time.
I considered saying "fellow socialists", but I'm not really a socialist, and I don't actually believe the great majority of left-leaning Americans are either. It was a tounge-in-cheek attempt to A) be clever, and B) dig at the left as much as I dig at the right... which by the way, isn't very much. I was trying to be both "fair and balanced" and witty at the same time.
But since humor is often lost somewhere in the text translation, I formally retract the word "socialist" from my previous post, because my point(s) are indeed genuine.
Sheesh!... Happy Holidays!
-M
JH-479998,
RE: your post #1.18
Your trying to create a fact out of thin air! There is NO mortgage cost associated with the payroll tax cut bill. You have not and CANNOT cite a single source for your bogus statement. In short you are full of BS!
ol doc; wow, first the reason the refinery's are in Louisiana and Texas is water, it takes about 6 barrels of fresh water to crack one barrel of crude, about 16 barrels to crack one barrel of shale; next all the pipelines to the country run fro Louisiana and Texas, next 50% of all petroleum is used in industry (plastics, paint, building materials, polometure, clothing, asphalt for roads, etc., diesel is less than 12 % of all fuel oils; the pipeline is a major start of American independence of foreign controlled oil company's .
This page is hilarious...the professional whiners are whining like they were in heaven....they are having a good time. You can tell who most of them are...they all have a high number of likes, read each others bs and click the like button....must have something to do with the pay rate.......
@saxon
First of all let me say that I enjoy reading your posts, at least for the most part. However, in this particular instance I may have a couple of questions. If you look at a map you will be able to quite plainly see that rather than piping this crude 1600 miles to Texas, where by the way fresh water can sometimes be somewhat difficult to come by, they could pipe it less than 400 miles to existing refineries along the coast in Washington State where water is seldom in short supply.
Also, from what I understand, this supply will be used for export rather than domestic use.
The one thought that sticks in my mind is that of an effort of some parties to further bolster and maintain an existing monopoly that does little if anything benefitting the average U.S. citizen.
May I ask what your thoughts might be on these concerns?
Thanks.
@art
I clicked the like button on your post.
wizard-224...; the Mississippi river is the source of all the fresh water needed to crack the oil; that is why all the largest refinery's in the country are in Louisiana and bay town Texas, (sabine river overflow from the Mississippi.
the huge pipeline complex runs from the Louisiana -Texas hook up all the way up the east coast; will some oil be exported of course, we export right now a large amount of oil from Alaska and Texas-Louisiana, the law that said Alaskan oil can not be exported was repealed in the 1990's. Israel gets all it's petroleum from the United States, Arab states will not sell to them. Canada and the United States (including the Gulf of Mexico) have more oil reserves than the entire rest of the world combined, plus we have so much Natural gas , the proved fields alone is enough for America for the next 200 years.
Oil company's are all owned by Mideastern cartels, they are in the business of oil shortage, maximize profits, with the U.S. and Canada coming on line, their cartel will be in competition , and they will no longer be in total control.
Testing Testing 123, First Read or Newsvine ate the duplicate threads with the most comments?
They have been at the spiked punch bowl this morning.
The people that program this website are complete MORONS.
No, just full of Christmas cheer - and punch! LOL
Merry Christmas Forrest!!!!
Merry Christmas Joe!!!!
Loves me some Republican crow. Mmmm mmmm mmmm good.
Once again, happy holidays, and God (or insert your favorite substitute) bless us, everyone.
Merry Christmas Phine!
Merry Christmas Joe
Hey John you better watch out
you better not cry
you better not pout I'm telling you why
Mitch McConnell is not coming to town.
Boehner looked at the house
And counted his votes
Didn't count on the weasel
To put a stick in his spokes
Mitch McConnell is not coming to town.
He's making his list
He's checkin' it twice
Gonna find out if a filibuster'll suffice
Mitch McConnell's comin' to town
He's passing no laws
for the Average Joe
Havin fun being the Party of "NO" !!!
Mitch McConnell's comin' to town
Forrest, a very merry Christmas to you, Mrs. Grump and all the little Grumpsters!
You too, are a FR treasure.
He knows if you're a donor
He knows you'll lobby him twice.
He knows if you're in the 1%
Who cares if you're naughty or nice?
Thank You New Day, Merry Christmas to you and your family.
The bridge (chorus) for our holiday song
He knows when you are sleeping, He knows when you are weeping
He knows when you are a skunk or a snake, so get drunk for goodness sakes
If you take my advice,
he knows it's not nice,
what do they care,
They're going nowhere,
Mitch McConnell's comin' to town
Merry Christmas Joe, Phine, Anna, Forrest, GOP, Newday, Steeler.... & a Happy NEW YEAR!
I noticed that two post happening this morning and yep they deleted the ones with the most posts...
But oh well, they aren't perfect either, besides, they kept the two less vitriolic threads.
Egilman: You are becoming one of my favorite people! Love to read what you write, even when we disagree.
Merry Christmas to you and your family Egilman.
This ends Boehner as Speaker of the House. I see this as a end around move by Cantor to remove Boehner and became the speaker himself. Between rock and a hard place if Boehner caves and lets Senate bill be voted on Cantor uses it against him if he stands firm Cantor can blame him for all the trouble division among republicans and letting a tax increase happen, either way a win win for Cantor
Did you notice Cantor all smiling and happy about the breakdown yesterday? Yep, if we look at Boehner's back, there is a big old knife sticking out of it.
Poor Boehner. Those balls must be getting pretty sore by now.
Eric has John's balls in his purse.
Well, that answered the question if John had any balls!
Maybe Boehner's job in Ohio is still open.
You know.
The one where he swept up the bar after closing?
GOP---they couldn't let him near all the liquor unsupervised!
Blink, Blink went the Republican Leadership of both houses of Congress! And it was about time! What, they really do know how the American Voter will view their recent refusal to pass the curent payroll tax cut! So they wised-up! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to ALL!
If they did he'd cry himself to sleep every night.
LL
BWAHAHAHA!! You kill me Steeler.
All the best to you n' yours this holiday season.
John is a workaholic you mention work and he goes to the bar!
Feeling the heat McConnell?
Charlie, I think McConnell is trying to tell Boehner that the members of Congress that are already at home with their families for the holidays are not going back to Washington just because Boehner said so. This is the ONLY time in 3-1/2 years that McConnell is actually making any sense -- pass the 2 month extension and then go on home and be with your family for the Holidays, Boehner!
After days of silence, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is calling on the House GOP to pass the two-month payroll-tax-cut extension -- and for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (R-NV) to appoint negotiators to work with the House on a long-term deal after that extension is passed.
Translation: "After letting them twist in the wind for a few days to pay them back for the knife to the back, Mitch McConnell reminded House Tea Partiers that he's the only guy in Washington who can get them out of this with a shred of face-saving."
Well played, Mitch.
JohnNY-3623017
After days of silence, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is calling on the House GOP to pass the two-month payroll-tax-cut extension -- and for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (R-NV) to appoint negotiators to work with the House on a long-term deal after that extension is passed.
JohnNY-
McConnell is very slow. That could be the reason he is called a turtle; he is really retarded. How on earth would anyone with 1/2 of a brain think focusing solely on the President's job instead of jobs for the people of America would bode well? I'm glad his tail is being exposed.
Happy Holidays
The problem is Mitch McConnell. If he is on board and in touch the Senate version doesn't have cloture. His stepping up and calling for Reid to follow the constitution is 2 days overdue. He is probably getting a good bit heat over letting the House Republicans twist in the media wind.
DB, did we read the same article? It looked like to me that McConnell is telling Boenher to pass the 2 month extension, then Harry Reid and Boenher can appoint negotiators to look at a long term solution.
Is it hard for you to admit your party is falling apart?
Personally, I think Mitch is only trying to bring Boehner & Co. into line with their Norquist pledge...
NO NEW TAXES! The actions of the House violates that promise and would really be used against Republicans and teanuts in 11/12.
Now, I do NOT believe Grover really cares about this or that the "middle-class" will be the ones suffering more tax if it doesn't pass = his pledge was only in regard to the "1%" wealthy. However, with an important election year on the horizon, he can't afford to be exposed for the typical Repulican double standard hypocrit that he truly is by the media; too many voters would actually be informed before going to the polls in November. So good ol' Grover presses Mitch to put the heat on Boehner to pass the bill and avoid the embarrassment of having people see the truth: that his "no new tax" pledge only applies to the rich and he doesn't care about any cost to the working class. Assinine politics as usual/manipulate appearances before the election; fool the voters with a sales pitch and talking points.
Sickening IMO
Not as stupid, You are right up to a point...and here's the point; question #1 What pipeline is attached to the House version of the bill? question #2 What Republican lobbyist is trying to get approval for said pipeline?
Answers: Keystone XL, Grover Norquist
Enough said!
The house Republicans don't want to give workers a 1-yr extension of the tax break. Their bill cuts the length of unemployment benefits from 99 to 59 weeks. It adds means-testing to entitlement programs as a way to make them unpopular, and it has this stuff about the pipeline in it. This is all a game to them to try to get their wishlist passed. Forget all your stupid riders and pass a clean bill to continue the tax break for workers.
why ??? ---- the tax break is relatively worthless ---- please explain how you personally spent your tax cut money in 2011. ---- if you grossed $50,000 this year, that's only $19.23 per week, so i'm curious how that "big money" changed your life.
ronpal:
Ditto.......... whew that was biiiiiggg money. I never stacked paper like that before....
it isn't about changing anyone's life, but about the cumumlative effect of that nearly $20 per wage earner across the country... THAT'S the big money! Every dollar that goes into a household's spendable income generates approximately $6 of economic activity, on average, because the money they spend goes to someone else who in turn spends it, and so on... until it goes to a major coroporation, who will sit on it, waiting for better times or a better ROI. Moral of the story? spend your money as locally as possible.
DonR ---- so.... enlighten me.... how did you spend your taxcut this year ??? ----- i took a poll of my employees, and most didn't even know they had been recieving more in their check.
@ronpal @inthemiddle - because the tax break seems "relatively worthless" to you does NOT mean it is relatively worthless to millions of Americans. Besides being morally degenerate, Libertarianism is fundamentally against the core principles of the constitutioni.
Proverbs 14:31 He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
Proverbs 21:13 If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.
Galatians 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
the average american saw very little actual money from this ---- if you make $50,000 gross, that is average, and this taxcut was aimed at people who make even less than that. ---- the average person is incapable of putting money aside and allowing it to accumulate, so please explain how the relatively "poor" people benefitted from this taxcut. ----- a much more productive tax rebate was several years ago, when they actually sent out checks of about $200 or so. ---- my sales for the two months following that spiked.
Thank you Ed for your comment.
@ronpal - that's a nice ivory tower you have. Do you have any clue as to why the average person is incapable of putting money aside? BTW, I own my own business. When was the last time you visited a homeless shelter? Or a warming center? Or a food assistance project?
Oh, I forgot, libertarians believe in the yoyo economy - You're On Your Own pal. Get sick and can't pay for health care - die. Lose a job and become poor because you can't find another job, too bad. Need education to get ahead but have no money - to bad.
We "poor" people saw with that money we could buy food or pay the water bill.
Not having your water cut off is a benefit.
yes, i do have a clue why the average person is incapable of putting any money aside --- it is because their parents neglected to teach them any sense of responsibility and values, and how to evaluate priorities. ---- most people have trouble managing their checking account, much less putting aside anything for a rainy day. ---- btw, you are not the only one on here who owns his own business or is a vietnam vet, but thank you for your service.
Ronpal—
With insensitive nincompoops like you who needs the GOP? I am a manager and live in the NE. $40 every 2wks means a lot to support staff or paralegals or single mothers or a family with recurring medical bills. It helps with gasoline and heating costs too. And, no, you ignoramus, the tax increase would not be limited to $40 for everybody. Because we have a progressive tax rate in this country that tax increase would be just about $100 per pay period for those making over $110K. So shut your insensitive pie hole if the only thing that emanates from it is the utter nonsense that you ignorant Bagga heads always seem to pull from your nether orifice at will! A**hole!
The problem with this "tax holiday" that most people keep overlooking is the LONG range effect. How is that going to affect your SS benefits when you are eligible for them? Is that 2% going to mean a 2% less benefit for the rest of your retired life? Yes, it puts a few dollars in your pocket right now (and that amount varies by your actual gross paycheck each week), but it is rather short-sighted. When Congress says they are going to "replenish the lost funds" in the SS Trust Fund for this "holiday", they have failed to explain HOW they are going to replenish that loss when they are already having to cut all of the appropriations (what they call the budget) due to lack of tax receipts. Just like all of the other tax cuts that we have seen since GWB's un-financed tax cuts, the payroll tax cut (holiday) is going to hurt all of us in the long run. I say that we must let ALL tax cuts expire, then do a total revamp of the tax structure with a gross income (all sources of income) tax based on the following: First $25K of income tax free, 15% tax on all income above $25K up to $250K, 30% on all income over $250K to $750K, and 45% on all income over $750K. Absolutely NO deductions, credits, etc. allowed (otherwise it isn't gross income, is it?)
TO: ronpal who wrote:
For your information, all the money I make in an entire year would NOT impress you or multi-millionaires, so of course my savings mean nothing to you.
REPUBLICANS = TAX CUTS for the rich, and PAY CUTS for average Americans.
TO: Ed-403353 who wrote:
Those are powerful words. Somehow I feel that Republicans have never heard them.
@ronpal - please spare me your condescension and platitudes. Through my church I work with destitute people who have been crushed by the YOYO economy, through no fault of their own. They've had checking accounts and savings, been wiped out, in many cases more than once. Are you a Christian? Do you respect the constitution?
ronpal My rainy day fund had a tooth ache and a flat tire.
To 6.7
That money is spent and goes directly into the economy and spent another 3-5 times.
Duh!
AmericanGirl, I see nothing in those quotes from The Bible that say anything about the government ( a case study in fraud, abuse and inefficiency) confiscating your money to give to those who do not have enough pride or sense to try to help themselves!!
I sure like the posters that feel that $100 a month (that's how much I am getting) is worthless. It meant a lot to my family to have an additional $1200 a year - you know just for the basics. It will also mean something to our family if we no longer will get it. And to the turkey that says most of his employees never noticed and can't balance a check book - how the heck would you even know this. I immediately noticed the difference and yes I did - I thanked President Barack Obama for it.
Bah Humbug to the turkey Ronpal!!! Have a wonderful Christmas.
ronpal - I guess $20 per week wouldn't affect a member of the 1%, right? For some of us $20 / week is all we have after bills, food, housing, fuel and clothing. Now do you understand why the 99% are getting pissed?
Where exactly have you been for the last 12 years?!! We've lost over 15 million middle-class jobs. Our good paying jobs are now being filled in China! Perhaps you should go back to the bible, obviously what happened 2,000 years ago has more relevancy to you than current events!
Tes: How about this? Amos 5:11 Therefore, because you impose heavy rent on the poor and exact a tribute (tax) of grain from them and turn aside the poor at the gate, Therefore, at such time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time.
Mark 10:21 One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess, and GIVE it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven and come follow me.
laura Go right ahead!!
i'll say it again ---- if you are making $4000 a month and can't make ends meet, you have serious priority issues, or you made some really poor choices. ---- why is it that people are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own choices ?? ----- and i'll say it again, if $4000 isn't enough for you, then another $80 isn't going to solve your problems either. ----- if we, via the govt, want to help those less fortunate, there are good ways and bad ways to accomplish that ---- this was one of the bad ways, both ineffective and inefficient.
McConnell "The President's failed economic policies." hahah
You Mr. McConnell voted NO for most of those policies. So how did they fail?
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/200979-mcconnell-urges-house-to-pass-senates-payroll-tax-bill
Like I said, McConnell was blind-sided by what happened and is both po'd to the max and well aware of the 'optics" as we go into the Christmas Holiday...The democrats stole the Republicans clothes while they were all still in the pool...and now the Minority Leader has left the Speaker standing naked in the spotlight...
Kala Hristouyienna to you dangferfield. Are you enjoying the mostly one-sided playground today?
All of my posts disappeared from "First Thoughts" this morning, so yes!
Orange face, cankersore, Bonehead...
There can be no legitimate debate without mutual respect, and there is little to none here. Most just want to sing to the choir, and are so "right" in their beliefs that they often attack the speaker more than the speech...and that goes for the Red Jerseys and the Blue Jerseys too...
If it doesn't "spoil" the view, it certainly obstructs a clear line of sight...:)
Mele Kalikimaka to you and yours....
There are 2 FTs this morning Danger, apparently a gremlin or 2 went to an office party. You should be able to find your posts on one or the other.
like obummer and bam bam dangerfield?
Reading comprehension 101
What do you think...
that goes for the Red Jerseys and the Blue Jerseys too...
Means?
---------------------------------------------------------
Only see one "First Thoughts" and the posts were also not listed in my account, so I am waiting for the sitemasters or whoever to explain...
Oh, let them eat cake! Cankersore Cantor has lost and Bonehead has been made to look as ineffectual as he is!
And get rid of the Koch bros. pipeline. Are these TP's really ready to take the heat for this. I think NOT!
Boehner, with look of pain on his orange face, said to Eric Cantor, "Et tu, weasel?"
Boehner better hie to the golf course as a pound of flesh is about to be stripped from him. MMMM Orange meat.
Duck l'orange? Naw, probably chicken.
O phine, don't tell me he tastes like chicken also ... Can that chicken.
He does have a "tinny" after taste. Blech!!
That's the taste of stale bourbon.
Sure Boehner is getting reprimanded by Senate GOP and he shows his ineptitude with counting votes. He will be replaced when the GOP retains the house next year.
However, the democrats are outmanuevered again. For political purposes it shows that the Senate is offering to compromise. Now they will pass the social security tax reductions. It used to be that no one would speak about reducing or weakening Social Security. Now both parties for the sake of political expediency will weaken it further. FDR is rolling in his grave.
If this goes through they will all clap around a big desk smiling as Obama signs a 1 year extension. An extension that will further defund Social Security by another $100,000,000,000 or more. A deal that will force the XL pipeline to be built NOW! No need for a study to reroute through a less intrusive route. Aquifer and wildlife impacts who cares, they want to create jobs. Nothing against construction jobs, but in my mind one oil major spill will negate those 20,000 or so jobs.
Perhaps the GOP will throw Obama a crumb and extend unemployment insurance, but at what cost? What cost for all of this? What does the CBO say this will cost? You know none of this will be paid for by increased taxes. All of the politicians who cry about deficits should be against a one year extension. Perhaps I'm crazy but am I the only Liberal who feels as if Obama and the Democrats are about to give away the store again?
I can ensure you that the pain will be felt by government workers with their slashed benefits. Multiply the 20,000 temporary construction jobs ten fold and you will understand how many federal workers will become unemployed. The GOP senators standing behind Obama when he signs will clap. What happened to his threat about a veto if a deal had the pipeline attached to it?
Yellowdog,
It is up to us to flood our representatives AND the White House with our concerns. Tell them, please, for once, show a little spine and stand up for the American people.
Where is the proof that there will be 20,000 jobs (especially within the US)? I've heard figures as low as 6,000 short temporary jobs, and that a lot of the jobs are actually going to the Chinese. Of course there are always all kinds of lies about all of these contracts.....plus the fact that this Canadian oil is only "passing through" our TX refineries on its way to foreign countries. Canadians are destroying their country with the extraction, and now they want to destroy our country with the pipeline.....just as Alaska's pipeline is destroying parts of Canada with oil leaks. For those who say that there are already many pipelines through this area, that is true, and there is already FAR too much underground pollution happening from leaks. Don't add to it with very corrosive, hazardous oil from these Canadian extractions.
anti trust pro
I am also not sure how may of these jobs there will be. You are totally right. though. The tar sands and extraction may not be from the Middle east, but it is not like this oil once refined will be used here in the US. All these oil companies are multi national corporations, the oil is a commodity it goes on the open market. I'm not against all domestic drilling, but people need to realize that this isn't even domestic production, the oil will only pass through to Texas or La refineries. Like someone said above why is it going to the gulf. It is going to the gulf so it can be shipped elsewhere, while our lands face the risks of pipeline oil spills.
I'm sure president Obama thanked his Secret Santa Boehner for the wonderfully generous political Christmas gift from the house republicans. Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas Mr. President. So all this mess will be just so they could claim to give you what you asked for to begin with, that's the best spin they got on this, you win Mr. President, they lose, and they created a lot of ill will with the public and within their party just to do what the sensible president wanted. Wow are house republicans in the Christmas spirit of giving or what?
it is really something that the republicans have obstructed for 3 years. when they look to be in trouble then they want help. stand firm democrats. you've been burned before by the house republicans at every turn. senator mcconnell knows what time it is. you can only say no so many times when the american people see what you are all about. this war against the middle class and poor are going to backfire on boehner, cantor, mcconnell, mcarthy, ryan etc. these nasty personal attacks on the president by romney, rove, trump, palin, bachman, perry, and the fox news team are also going to backfire. All these hypocritical Christians during this time of the year makes all of us sick.
Let's give up this tax break and increse our Government's revenue. This will help pay down our Natioal debt.
This is nothing more than another loophole that needs to be eliminated.
Merry Christmas, Joseph. Hope you and yours have a happy one!
They can cut spending and still give us a tax break. They just do not have the b@lls.
Joseph, you really believe that?
TO: Joseph E. Parent who wrote:
Why not ask the Top 1% wealthiest Americans to give up their tax breaks, which WILL make a REAL difference in reducing the deficit? We average Americans are trying to hang on, trying to pay our rent and feed ourselves!
With Republicans, it ALWAYS comes down to protecting the wealthy from any Tax Increases, and socking it to the average Americans.
Joe: Please send your written request for tax increases to Boehner and McConnell, in care of the Teabaggers.
House Republicans are hurting the country with their breathtaking intransigence and partisan obstinacy. It is almost mind boggling that, in the face of near universal disdain and criticism from members of their own party, John Boehner and his Tea Party crew refuse to do what's best for America and give 200 million Americans much-needed tax relief. This fight threatens to destroy the GOP and render them totally unqualified to lead the country or to be considered in next year's elections. President Obama is in his strongest position for reelection in at least two years. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
much needed tax relief ??? ---- if you earned $50,000 this year, that "big" tax break is only $19.23 per week. ---- and this taxcut was aimed at people who gross even less than that.
funny, I didn't hear that argument from your side when we wanted to take away the bush tax cuts ronpal...
i am not a republican ---- i wasn't in favor of those cuts either. ----- p.s. ronpal is my actual name, i am not affiliated with ron paul.
Ron Paul Some of us are really hurting. That $19.23 buys me three meals or more
at the local discount food store. With four weeks of the tax break I can pay my water bill.
sandy ---- are you trying to tell me you gross over $4000 per month, and your finances are in that poor of condition ?? ----- seems to me you need to re-evaluate your priorities. ------ and btw, my name is ronpal, not ron paul
No we do not make more than $4,000 a month. We did see a small increase in our paycheck with
the tax cut. Re-evaluate my priorities: I have a 20 year old car, no car payments.
"My finances are in that poor of condition." If they take even $5 more a week out in taxes, we
will be hurting even more. btw my computer was a gift.
My experience says to give it up Sandy... they are so out of touch with America and with people that they will just never "get it." Their tunnel vision of their own insignificant lives leads them to believe all the millons of American citizens are in the same situations as themselves, and they simply can not fathom that there ARE hungry people and homeless people and ill people who are denied healthcare in this country.
Denial of the truth is a hallmark of most conservative wingers I've found.
sandy --- i wish you only the best, but i'll say it again ---- it all comes down to personal choices and decisions. ------ most people i know would be tickled pink to make $50,000 a year, so it's really hard for me to assimilate the choices you may have made as to why that doesn't work for you. ---- and p.s. you're not the only one driving an older vehicle.
The President has already said that the house voting on the 2-mo extension is the only way to get this done. If he or other Democrats give an inch to the Republicans on this, they are useless and will lose my vote.
Well, good for you, Joe. As near as I can tell, most of the Repubs feel just the same. Guarantees we're going nowhere on this....guess you think that's a good thing. By the way, if Obama even looks like he might give an inch, I'm counting on you to pour gasoline over your head and light it off....make that no-compromise point with real emphasis! I promise to say something nice at your funeral.....
Funny how Obama wanted a year and the House tries to give him the year extension and Obama turns around and says the 2 month extension is the "only option" Really, Why doesn't the Senate come back and complete the work Obama originally wanted? To score political points? Another example of Obama saying screw the country, I need to get reelected.
TO: Rocco-2976776 who wrote:
That's because the House Republicans filled up the Bill with a ton of pork barrel spending, "earmarks" which Republicans promised they would STOP attaching to Bills IF they took over the House. Well, as expected, Republicans broke that promise again and loaded up the extension bill for unemployed Americans with lots of FREE GOODIES for the rich.
Btw, what happened to all those JOBS JOBS JOBS Republicans promised they would create if we voted them in to the House of Representatives? Another thing: Why are Republicans in favor of Tax Cuts for the rich, but NOT Tax Cuts for us average Americans?
REPUBLICANS = TAX CUTS for the rich, and PAY CUTS for average Americans!
FACTS obama ask for a one year deal , The Republican house gave obama a one year deal , The democrat senate ,Kicked the can down the road with a two month extension ,obama turned on the Republican house after they gave him what he wanted ,
I am sick and tired of the class war fare propaganda crap , let me try to explain it so the simplest minds can understand it , Where do you think obama and his cronies get the big campaign bank rolls , it is not from the poor DUMMIES , The rich don't care if their taxes are increased ,they make even more money ,
HOW IT WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD
A $100 dollar item at retail that you the consumer pay plus local taxes , After all expenses before taxes the profit on Item is $20 Taxes at %25 = $15 profit , 10 million items sold $150 million in profits
RAISE THE TAXES say to %50 The retail cost of item goes up by %20 you the consumer now pays $120 for said item plus state and local taxes which has also went up ,the production costs are the same , the profit on item is now $40 before taxes , taxes at %50 = $20 which leaves a after tax profit of $20 AN INCREASE OF %33 1/3 PROFIT ON ITEM , which you the consumer has paid ,
REAL LIFE , next time you go grocery shopping take note of the many different companies and corporations there are , then look up and see how many of them are public traded companies ( stocks ) THIS is where people with cash put their money , they buy shares in business , RAISE TAXES on the rich and these basic necessity products GO UP IN COSTS , you the dummy consumer pays for the increase ,in taxes ,and the rich just get richer ,and you the dummy consumer just get poorer , TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH hell the rich don't pay taxes that's just part of the expenses which they pass along to the consumers , the rich finance business which creates jobs , and products , which they sell for a PROFIT , and if the profit is more in china they go to china DUMMIES
McConnell and Boehner are searching for recipes that substitute crow for the Christmas turkey!
Has anyone noticed that when Boehner gets in front of a microphone he has Cantor behind him with a knife ready to stab him if he says anything that doesn't comply with Tea Party philosophy?
Do ya think he uses a teleprompter too?!
I saw Romney using a teleprompter yesterday.
Are we going to see this keystone pipeline BS in every bill until the House GOP gets whatever it is they are wanting out of it? Even the company doing it shows jobs created at around 10% of what the House is trying to claim and polls show a majority of those near the projected routes do not want a leaking pipeline in their backyard (And yes, Pipelines leak constantly)
The House GOP is committing slow suicide daily
dude --- you need to go to the keystone website, and see how many jobs it creates. ---- btw, are you aware that the first phase of keystone, which ends in illinois, has already been completed ?? ---- please tell me where the leaks are... ------- also, some of those jobs pay $100 per hour, or more --- i know people here in oregon just waiting for this to start so they can drive up there and get in on this. ---- i know restaurant owners in montana and south dakota who are excited about the extra business they will recieve.
Bo:
I see you're regurgitating the same talking points from 2010.
GOP is here today and just like rock and roll, here to stay.
ronpal, please check your facts. The company itself is stating 20,000 jobs, all of which will be temporary except for a very minor maintenance crew.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2011/12/14/143719155/just-how-many-jobs-would-the-keystone-pipeline-create
I would rather have our money used to strengthen the US Infrastructure than this. All this does is feed the oil companies more money that they don't need and continue our dependence on foreign oil. The GOP already killed investing in US infrastructure though as there was no money in it for big business.
Dude, pipelines are infrastructure. You wouldn't have gasoline or natural gas without pipeline infracstructure.
There are probably as many miles of pipe lines Cris crossing our country as there are roads , The keystone pipe line has been studied to death and approved all it needs is obama signature ,It will be the most advanced pipe line in the world , in construction and safety , Pipe lines have a very long history of safety , Yes about 20. ooo jobs in construction , but after it is complete several thousand in permanent jobs maybe as many as 10,000 permanent jobs , pipe lines don't just put oil , gas in one end and it comes out the other ,it don't work that way , There is pressure monitoring stations , pumping stations , emergency shut off systems , and a whole lot more that goes with it , all require skilled people which is skilled jobs ,
ADD 2 plus 2 obama does not want America to have this oil from our friends in Canada , obama wants us to be dependent on OPEC oil ( his friends ) obama don;t want these independent jobs ,obama wants people dependent on the Government , it is called socialist communism , THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT , nothing more , WHAT the hell do you think obama meant when he said he would fundamentally transform America ,
While pipelines are infrastructure, they are privately financed infrastructure. They should be able to stand on their own merits and not be fast tracked by any political party. Fast tracking them 'just' because they promise to generate 20K jobs and allow a foreign company to reach refineries on the Gulf is not a good idea.
It is even worse when the jobs are temporary and the numbers quoted are subject to interpretation. The press release for the pipeline stated that the job was expected to create seven million hours of labor and 13,000 new jobs for Americans. When pressed for details at a later date, it came out that the jobs would be spread over the number of years needed to construct the pipeline. So instead of generating 13,000 new jobs, the numbers were more like 6,500 jobs spread over two years.
Once the pipeline is complete, those jobs disappear and the only jobs remaining are those tied to pipeline maintenance, a much smaller number.
Also note that the oil will basically go on the open market. Just because it is shipped through the United States and converted into other products in the United States doesn't mean that we get a discount on it. It that was true, then Alaska would have some of the cheapest gasoline in the nation.
most jobs are "temporary" in nature. ---- look at the housing industry --- once a house is built, that's it, then all the crew can do is hope their boss can find someone else wanting a house built. ---- many small businesses along the route of this pipeline will also see a boost in revenue, as will their employees. ---- yes, it is only a temporary boost. ---- what do you think the recovery act did ?? ---- most of those things were only temporary also, and in some cases, a total waste of money. ---- at least with the pipeline, there is a long-term benefit.
In other words, Senator McConnell told Speaker Boehner to quit playing games, tell his caucus to stuff it, and pass the 2-month extension.
But notice that old Mitch just had to make an unnecessary and nasty comment about President Obama--never mind that the American people suffer because of Bush 43 & the GOP policies that collapsed the economy. Never mind the GOP charged everything they did for 8 years and now want people to believe they are fiscally responsible. What a joke McConnell is, for being so petty and shallow while never acknowledging the huge role he and his fellow GOP legislators played in the havoc wrecked on the country. That said, thanks Senator McConnell for at least telling Boehner to cut the bull and just pass the darn bill.
Jody:
I want you to preach the same thing in a few years after Obama is gone and all of his policie's bills become due. I want to see what excuse you will have 10 yrs from now when his administration can truly be judged.
When you take your partisan glasses off; you will see they are all POLITICIANS.
Merry Christmas to you, too, ITM.
P.S. Where did I say they weren't all politicians?
P.S.S. Only in your dreams will the GOP win the presidency in 2012.
Jody, really, are that ignorant? The GOP didn't have 8 yrs of fiscal irresponsibility...pls, pls remember your history...Dems controlled the Senate for 4 of the 8 yrs that GWB was president and Dems controlled the House the last 2 yrs GWB was president. For the 1st 6 yrs of GWB's admin, unemployment was around 4.5-5%. By the time he left office, it was climbing - coincidentally that was after 2 yrs of Dem control of both the Senate and the House! Dems are the most fiscally irresponsible people in this country. The House voted to give Obumo what he wants and now he doesn't want it due to politics...doesn't want to piss off the enviro's on the pipeline deal 'cause they won't give him money. How convenient that you'll make the decision AFTER the election. Every decision Obumo and Harry Reid make are based on politics, not principle. This is your Democratic Party! How proud you must be - sarcasm intended!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's a reason some mistake the pronunciation of his name as "BONER".
Boehner should be pronounced as Boeing is! Boener (i.e., Boner)
The Republican controlled house will, within the next few days, agree to the two month extension providing the Senate agrees to go to conference, which is the way the congress was intended to run. The Republicans in the house can use the same excuse that President Obama used when he caved on the extension of the Bush tax cuts which he had vowed to veto. Remember he reluctantly accepted the Bush tax cuts extension for two years because he was concerned about the people drawing unemployment.
Actually IMO this is nothing but a political ploy by both sides to try and appease their bases, to most members of congress (both parties) and Obama it is all about the upcoming election and not about the people.
I do not trust the Democratic controlled Senate to accomplish anything within the next two months, even if the house agrees to the two month extension, they will just keep doing extensions after extensions.
A pox on both parties and the White House they all need a swift kick in the rear end and absent that all voted out of office.
It's OK Sfcret,
That pipeline isn't important to the liberal base. Those jobs would not go to anyone in the Black community anyway. They would all go to a bunch of disgusting, red neck construction workers who probably don't need the work anyway.
The environmental concerns, valid or not, can be effectively used to stop this project and any redneck jobs it would produce.
Vote OBAMA/BIDEN 2012.
Joesph E. Parent
I just donated to the DNC in your name.
I am writing a check here to send to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin so that the good people of Wisconsin can recall Scott Walker, their fascist governor.
Money well spent.
I encourage anyone who is like-minded to do the same.
I gotta help my friend Anna Molly.
A good waste of money this time of year. Why don't you go feed some of those hungry homeless people in your city. I'm quite sure it would be more appreciated.
lol so Wisconsin can turn into another California. Are unions that stupid in Wisconsin? Yep keep it up and soon there will be a few thousand unemployed union whining workers.
Hey Gopisextinct,
How about writing me a fat check. Then I can root for your libbie cause, what ever it is. Money talks. LOL
PS WI public workers have some of the highest retirement formula in the nation. Even with your contribution and the states (which is the taxpayer) and PERS investment it still puts the taxpayer on the hoof for millions. And with your union walking out on meet and confers on a very consistent bases why should ANY taxpayer take your recall seriously. And that includes any union member that knows that their union boss is scre**** their own members. All your doing is causing a situation for mass lay offs. I agree with Middle of Texas use your money for Xmas.
Go is right,the radical Scott Walker is going down. Nobody messes with labor.
I donated to them online. Gets them the money quicker. And oh look, I have extra money, think i'll send more. Thanks for the reminder.
Backhouse..."Amassive environmental disaster"? You should do your homework. The Keystone project was the most scrutinized pipeline project ever! Every involved Federal department has signed off on this project.
It's not as if this is the only pipeline to be laid in America. We have literally thousands of pipeline already in place.
Buying oil from a friendly nation is a plus. Buying oil immediately 'next door' is a plus. Ensuring oil supplies to our country is a plus. Generating JOBS is a plus.
What are you smoking backhouse? I hope your smoke is non-polluting! Jerk.
Chuck;
Ask yourself why this oil pipeline is extended all the way to a seaport.
Seriously.
Think.
Gopisextinct.
The refinery complex at Houston is capable of refining the exotic tar sands that will come from Canada. I'm quite sure the cost/benefit ratio has been scrutinized extensively, weighing the options of building a refinery close to the source of the oil, as opposed to pipeing the oil south.
Think.
Plus Joseph, the tree huggers won't allow a refinery to be built anyway. The last one built was over 30 years ago. I believe the refinery near Chicago has retooled for the tar sands oil as well. Thus the pipeline to Illinois that has already been built by Keystone.
Parent:
So they're going to pump sand through the Keystone pipeline? Who knew THAT technology existed.
Think.
Parent/Rocco:
Let me connect the dots for you:
Like all oil, the Keystone oil is going to be shipped onto the world market via a seaport. Easier than routing the pipeline over the Rocky Mountains. The Canadians are figuring, "If a spill / pollution is going to happen, it might as well occur in the United States and contaminate the entire Mississippi River Basin."
Americans absorb the risk,....Canadians reap the revenue. Pretty shrewd if you ask me.
Chuck #24
If this project is the most scrutinized project EVER, who were the geniuses that routed it over the aquifier?
That said I'm sure it was from a profit / loss perspective. Also from a risk management assessment; where they look at the costs for remediation and cleanup as part of the economics.
When these costs are negligible; corporations ALWAYS short the safety for their emplyees, the public and the enviorment.
When we begin to hold them criminally responsible for the enviormental disasters whether willfully or accidental then we will get change....l. until then it's cheaper to pay the fines....push any cleanup on the government blame everyone else than to actually do the job right.
Buying oil from a friendly nation is a plus. Buying oil immediately 'next door' is a plus
Bwaaaahaaaaaaaa! Clearly doofus Chuck hasn't a clue who the number one exporter of oil to the US currently is. You guys and your willingness to make complete fools of your self is providing me endless hours of free entertainment.
First, to all a Happy Holiday Season! Second, the Keystone Pipe Line is going to be the end of our environment. The numbers for the employees they would hire has been cut by two thirds. That original number counted every employee still working the next year and the year after that and so on as a new hire, hence the large number. The President is right to veto any bill that has legislation in it that does not concern the tax extension. I for one do not think the Republicans have the interests of the people in focus. They talk of "small business", but they do not mean the Mom and Pop stores and local businesses. I don't know what small businesses they are talking about. As far as job creators, I'm guessing they mean the corporations that out sourced customer care and tech support to other countries. By the way, Boehner is a wimp and Cantor is a weasel, they deserve each other. Speaking of Kantor, I wonder if he ever got the Nuke plant in his district going again, and if he did, who did he steal the money from?
boy, are you small-minded ---- did you ever consider the benefit to all the small businesses along that pipeline, such as restaurants and motels, which will benefit ?? --- and at over $100 per hour, i know people already getting ready to make the drive to work on that pipeline.
ronpal,
I live in Nebraska. The Republican governer, many of the republican representatives and 1000's of residents asked for this to be reviewed. You don't live here, so you don't know sh!t. It does not belong in a tax bill and certainly does not deserve to be rushed. We have a priceless acquifer and sandhills to preserve. I am not opposed to a pipeline overall, or the jobs it creates/ helps. THis one needs to be rethought...talk about small minded. Would Ron Paul support the Federal government deciding over the state on this issue...? I doubt it.
A lot more people could have been put to work repairing the Nation's infrastucture if the Greedy Old Pie Eaters had passed the American Jobs Bill...some of those very roads folks want to travel on to work on the pipeline probably need fixing...not to mention repairing roads, bridges, airports, etc. would probably be permanent jobs since they'll always be in need of repair due to their constant use.
@ronpaul - did you ever consider the opportunity cost of investing in toxic fossil fuel production? Expand your horizons.
did you ever consider the benefit to all the small businesses along that pipeline, such as restaurants and motels, which will benefit
I'm confused, will the pipeline it's self be dining in those restaurants and sleeping in the motels or will it be the hoards of tourists rushing to bring their families to stare at the pipeline? lol I hear they can barely keep up with the rush of tourists flocking to see the Alaskan pipeline!
steve ---- first off, my actual name is ronpal ---- i could care less what ron paul thinks ---- i am an unaffiliated voter. ---- are you aware that the first phase of keystone is already completed ?? ---- where were you when that was being constructed ??