Who here believes that Republican Leader McConnell was surprised - by Speaker Boehner's refusal to pass the middle-class Payroll Cut Extension?

1. We know Republicans plan & vote in lockstep. They dutifully follow the orders of Norquist and benefactors. The record shows they do it EVERY time, no matter who is punished by it.

2. ALEC/Koch/GOP strategies are not developed overnight.

3. Koch Industries spent $BILLIONS in 2010 getting the Tea Party faction into the House. And now they are under orders to get the Keystone Pipeline underway, as well as deregulate industrial pollution and eliminate taxes for the 1%.

4. Let's be clear. GOP/Koch Oil Industries/Norquist aren't in the business of extending payroll tax cuts or unemployment benefits for the middle class. That is not what they care about.

WHO BELIEVES THIS GOP/KOCH TACTICAL MANEUVER WAS UNPLANNED?

Another BIG WIN for lefty liberal Dems!!!!!!!!!

The Dems win the 2011 political booby prize from non-partisan fact-checking website PolitiFact, which has chosen their loud mouthed scare-mongering on Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposal as their: 2011 Lie of the Year.

OUCH!!!!

That’s gotta hurt.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Politico:

Dems' 'Mediscare' a dubious winner
By: Angie Drobnic Holan and Bill Adair - PolitiFact
December 20, 2011 10:48 PM EST

Republicans muscled a budget through the House of Representatives in April that they said would take an important step toward reducing the federal deficit. Introduced by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, the plan kept Medicare intact for people 55 or older, but dramatically changed the program for everyone else by privatizing it and providing government subsidies. Democrats pounced.

• Just four days after the party-line vote, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee released a Web ad, saying seniors will have to pay $12,500 more for health care “because Republicans voted to end Medicare.”

• Rep. Steve Israel of New York, chairman of the DCCC, appeared on cable news shows and declared that Republicans voted to “terminate Medicare.”

• A Web video from the Agenda Project, a liberal group, said the Ryan plan would leave the country “without Medicare” and showed a Ryan look-alike pushing an old woman in a wheelchair off a cliff.

• And just last month, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sent a fundraising appeal that read, “House Republicans’ vote to end Medicare is a shameful act of betrayal.”

After two years of being pounded by Republicans with often false charges about the 2010 health care law, the Democrats were turning the tables.

PolitiFact debunked the Medicare charge in nine separate fact-checks rated False or Pants on Fire, most often in attacks leveled against Republican House members.

Now, PolitiFact has chosen the Democrats’ claim as the 2011 Lie of the Year.

A House Divided

House Speaker John Boehner asked President Barack Obama in a letter Tuesday to order the Democratic-led Senate to appoint negotiators to work out a compromise with the Republican-led House on a payroll tax-cut extension.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/20/boehner-to-obama-appoint-negotiators/.

[snip]

Look, I know Barack Obama is Da Man.

But, this is kinda ridiculous. No, not kinda. Very. This is very ridiculous

Question, John: if Barack Obama can order the Senate to do anything, can he order you to cry me a river? I think so. I think that’s the freekin’ rules

http://juanitajean.com/2011/12/20/and-after-that-hell-sweep-the-capitol-and-make-a-couple-of-judicial-rulings/
==========================================

Me, myself, I think President Obama should expose to the world what the Republicans are. Not only is John Boehnor not aware of the separation of powers, but that the Boner can't even think beyond tying his own shoes; let along hold his caucus together. John Boehnor has exposed to the majority of this country as evidenced by the polls and the world the "race to the bottom" the RepubliCons have going own. President Obama does not need to call the Senate back. House Speaker John Boehnor blew it.

The people in the RepubliCON/Tea Party have to learn President Obama does his job. It's the broken Majority Leader House, John Boehnor, who doesn't do his J-O-B. Opps, my bad. It's John Boehnor's J-O-B to wreck this country's economy and try to make President Obama a "One Term President". Still John Boehnor blew it

Once John Boehnor learns what the US constitution calls for; then he can work on pulling that knife Eric Cantor has on him out of his back and work on keeping his trembling DT HANDS on his gavel and tying his shoes. John Boehnor is truly a sad individual.

/snip/

From President Obama accepting the Iraqi colors

The issue right now is this: The clock is ticking; time is running out. And if the House Republicans refuse to vote for the Senate bill, or even allow it to come up for a vote, taxes will go up in 11 days. I saw today that one of the House Republicans referred to what they’re doing as, “high-stakes poker.” He’s right about the stakes, but this is not poker, this is not a game -- this shouldn’t be politics as usual. Right now, the recovery is fragile, but it is moving in the right direction

I just got back from a ceremony at Andrews Air Force Base, where we received the flag and the colors that our troops fought under in Iraq, and I met with some of the last men and women to return home from that war. And these Americans, and all Americans who serve, are the embodiment of courage and selflessness and patriotism, and when they fight together, and sometimes die together, they don’t know and they certainly don’t care who’s a Democrat and who’s a Republican and how somebody is doing in the polls and how this might play in the spin room. They work as a team, and they do their job. And they do it for something bigger than themselves.

The people in this town need to learn something from them. We have more important things to worry about than politics right now.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/20/remarks-president-payroll-tax-cut

====================================================================

If our returning troops have fought valiantly for freedom, justice, and equality why is the Republican and Tea Party so apt to obstruct these rights?

GOP, MASTERS OF UNCERTAINTY & MAXIMUM PUNISHMENT:

GOP has turned this into a negotiation about not-the-payroll-tax, and are holding it hostage. Same as last Christmas and numerous times in 2011.

Today, Republicans want the Keystone Pipeline.

For GOP/Koch/ALEC, this is not about the payroll tax cut. It is about the Keystone XL Pipeline.

Beverly! Happy holidays to you!

Excellent reminder, IR. Best wishes for a wonderful holiday to one who walks the walk!

Backhouse, good point!

Happy Holidays to all posters! And to the GOPTP legislators, Santa has lumps of coal for you yahoos because you certainly have done nothing for the American people this year.

In millennia passed, this day was a day of dread. The preceding days had been getting colder, trees were dying, and the darkness - the darkness of night grew longer. The end was near. And then, for reasons unknown to the ancients, the dark nights began to grow shorter and the days longer. The earth warmed and the trees were reborn. This was a time to rejoice.

Today, we know this to be the Winter Solstice. We know the days do not grow shorter and the trees do not die. We are sophisticated and wise. We have even invented time. A day is 24 hours long and a year has 365 days - well, maybe a bit more. We know that our planet tilts about 23-degrees - well, maybe a bit more. It circles the sun. How smart we are. The ancients didn't have those answers. They only knew to be thankful for something they didn't understand.

We know that as our daylight hours grow shorter, on the other side of the planet they grow longer. We know that the trees do not die. They are deciduous and they are simply shedding their leaves, but they will return. We know that we will drop a seed in the soil and give it water, and the seed will grow into a plant that will give us food and clean our air.

We know that invisible particles - we name them atoms - combine in myriad combinations. The same atoms that come together to give us water, air, and soil, are the same atoms that are the building blocks of what we call life. The same things that make us, also make trees, and flowers, and deer, and fish, and yes, bacteria, viruses, and the deadliest of poisons. We know all this.

And we think we are wise. But no one knows how putting atoms of hydrogen and oxygen on a grain of wheat give it "life". No one knows why the earth spins on an axis or why it revolves around the sun. No one knows where we are going. No one knows how the universe came to be. What we truly know, is that we do not know. We stand in the same place as the ancients.

Our knowledge is mere speculation. For all its vaunted "advances", science tells us nothing. Science is based on the notion that all conclusions are subject to change. All theories are subject to challenge. What was true yesterday, may not be true today. All is mystery, yet we search constantly for explanations.

For many, gods are the explanation. For others, a single God does the job. No, there was a Big Bang. Well, God made the Big Bang. No, there was more than one Big Bang. Well, the gods made all of them. Well, there is no God or gods. All those explanations turn on something as fragile as faith. Nothing more. Nothing less. For something as fragile and intangible as faith, humankind will kill. And we think we are wise.

But on this day, the light of day begins to grow longer. This day marks the beginning of another magical time of renewal. This day marks the beginning of another cycle of miracles.

The grand mystery continues and we should understand that we know only as much as the ancients. We will not understand the mystery. We are not meant to understand the mystery. We can only marvel at the magic and the miracles we see each and every day of our lives. We should know we have very good reason to celebrate this day.

And every day that follows.

The Dems win the 2011 political booby prize from non-partisan fact-checking website PolitiFact, which has chosen their loud mouthed scare-mongering on Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposal as their: 2011 Lie of the Year.

Congratulations to Congressman Ryan...he lobbied for Politifact to rule in his favor and it appears he succeeded.

youtu.be/QdtP5MP6ikY

Mr. Boehner and the House GOP have lost this battle. Allow a vote and go home.

Odd that Gingrinch is so upset at the ads being run against him by the Romney Super Pacs. I guess you have to be careful what you ask for Newtie. When you want unlimited spending by wealthy people, kind of a shock when it is used against you, isn't it? But, given his behavior as Speaker...couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

As to Paul: Love the disingenuous response. "I didn't write those newsletters." But they went out with his name on them. Most reasonable people do not allow their name to be associated with things that they don't agree with. That is the danger that Paul poses. He presents himself as this reasonable choice, when he is a John Bircher.

Would love to know how his supporters excuse this.

GREAT Post, My Friends.

Thanks, IR. I believe as well, and my cherubs are very careful not to destroy my illusions.

Thanks IR, you started my day off just right. Hope I can maintain this feeling throughout the day (even better, throughout this and next year).

Have a great Holiday all.

Obama in 2012.

Happy Solstice, Everyone!

In keeping with phinephancy's plea that we play nice today, I would like to offer this response to Smiff.

An old Monty Python skit. Guy sitting at a desk in a small office. A timid knock comes at the door.

Guy at the desk barks: "Come in!"

A man opens the door, looks nervously around.

Guy at the desk: "Well, get on in here! Close the door! You're late, you know! Take off that silly hat! Do I have to tell you everything?" Looks the man up and down. "Look at the clothes you're wearing. Tie doesn't match your shirt! Shirt doesn't match your jacket! Is this the way you dress for an appointment? Well? Don't just stand there! Answer the question, man!"

The man: "Well. . . I. . . er. . . ."

Guy at the desk, exasperated: "Speak up, now! What do you have to say for yourself?"

The man: "Well. . . I'm looking for sympathy."

Guy at the desk sits up in surprise. "Oh!" And in a conciliatory tone: "Why didn't you say so? This is Abuse. Sympathy is down the hall, third door on your right."

***

(Is that subtle enough, phinephancy?)

Happy Holidays! Yes, no name calling. Wonderful story, BTW. I love Monty Python.

Well done IR, Bev, David, NDD, DN, Jack. Stellar postings by Yourselves this morn.

Jody,

GOP/Koch covets the media stage - by indulging the children in the HOUSE yet again.

But NO. The National Environmental Policy Act (1969) will not be suspended for the House children. And neither will the National Historical Act or the EPA be done away with for their benefit.

Jojo

Per ideology's request to me, I have hung up mistletoe. He will meet you under it shortly.

No surprise: Smiffy can't be nice on be nice day.

David,

Great post, as always. Thanks for bringing some Light to this day.

You, too, IR. Love your posts.

And Jody, down there in #2.

PolitiFact was given a scathing review by other journalists for its attempt to be fair and balanced instead of doing an honest assessment and for its failure to call the GOP lie about the stimulus not creating jobs as the most outrageous lie told; and for PolitiFact's ignoring the votes of the people.

@IR

A joyous holiday season to you. Thank you for your wisdom.

As the year comes to an end, I want to thank you Mr. President, for a job well done.

PolitiFact is simply a disgrace to journalism. They're a monumental flop of this year.

You are so right.

Getting disenfranchized is a terrible thing.

Political strategy ain't pretty. Easier to look the other way.

David Walker, excellent post!

Phine--I try to be nice everyday and not call people names,but that doesn't mean I agree with them and I secretly enjoy when others call the people with the ideaology I do not like names....

That is the thing I like least about right-wingers,they always stand on the side of the name callers and meanies....

Hey Joe, did you check under YOUR bed for ACORN and George Soros?

Hugs to you, Beverly and your grandchildren.

Keep well this Holiday Season Bev. Prayers and Sympathies especially for you from the Hill Folk.

The Republican Tea Party is exposing itself! They care much more about making "that man (wink wink)" a "one term president" than they care about the country.

TeaPubs caught with their pants pulled down.

This is hilarious, how did they tie themselves into a pretzel. You can't make this stuff up!

A big plus for America, to show how little the TeaPubs really care about America. They have more dogma than common sense. I bet they just lost a ton of independents.

Pass the popcorn.

I understand Bev!

It's a rough time of year for me as well, having lost my Mom 2 years ago!

I still need to get in touch with you - I have something for ya! ☺

Politofact says Dems are lying if they say the bill will end medi-care as we know it, but the bill does end medi-care as we know it for people under 55 ? Very confusing, it seems if you get worhtless vouchers instead of medi-care then it is over....I say worhtless vouchers because they will be a starting point in negotiating with a DR. because the doctor knows he is getting paid that much and he will be promptly looking for ways to ring up the bill higher then the money you are getting from the government..

Hey Joe, did you check under YOUR bed for ACORN and George Soros?

Of course not, that would be silly. All good Republicans know that the nefarious plottings of ACORN and Soros are hidden by the magical power of the omniscient Journo-list!

PEN-24

PolitiFact is simply a disgrace to journalism. They're a monumental flop of this year.

PEN-24, I've been very upset with them since they refused to retract Rachel's fact finding. Aren't they a part of the Florida media?

Even after 12 years (this Christmas day), I still miss my dad and his wonderful wisdom. But, at least now, the memories bring smiles and joy, with only a few tears.

From Uncle Redneck's "Yes, Virginia": "The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see."

And the best things in life.....aren't things.

Though this site often tries my faith (and I'm a devout athesist!) it's posts like yours that always manage to restore it just when it's most needed. Thanks, my friend, and keep believing.

Beverly,

You are grieving hard yourself, while your grandkids need you to keep your feet on the ground....pls keep well.

With love and best wishes to you all.

This is a divide and conquer tactic by the Republicans. Make no mistake that if they change Social Security and Medicare for those under 55 then they will use that block to start defunding SS and Medicare for EVERYONE

Thanks Feisty, I'll e-mail you my cell number.

We can always look on the bright side too. This time of year can also bring out the good spirits. Besides, things are getting somewhat better for American.

I LOL @ the righties thinking the President will cave. He sure will right on them. As Ed Schultz I'll drive 'em to ground (paraphrasing). That always makes makes me chuckle. :)

Backhouse

Beverly,

You are grieving very hard yourself, while your grandkids need you to keep your feet on the ground..

With love and best wishes to you all. Pls keep well.

Backhouse, that is very true.

I'm trying. I never thought there would be days I would miss writing or couldn't write. I love FR and the friends I have made here.

Happy Holidays

Hey Joe, did you check under YOUR bed for ACORN and George Soros?

______________________________________

No need to. I have my home fumigated with the sweet smell of financial success every day. If there are any lefty liberals hiding in my home, that makes them run out the doors or jump out the windows screaming with their hair on fire. It's quite an entertaining sight.

Thanks Feisty, I'll e-mail you my cell number.

Oh, I got your number GF! ☺

You need to clean off your voice mail lol

{{{HUGS}}} to you!

I LOL @ the righties thinking the President will cave.

Am I the only one who notices when President Obama stands up to them, his poll numbers rise?

Da Noid

Congratulations to Congressman Ryan...he lobbied for Politifact to rule in his favor and it appears he succeeded.

These so-called "fact" checking things have become a joke. Because of the Republicans' nonstop onslaught of vicious lies, the "fact" checkers are terrified of being accused of liberal bias if they don't accuse Democrats of lying occasionally. As I recall, Republicans have dominated the "Lie of the Year" award and "Pants on Fire" awards since the fact checker organizations came into existence. So the so-called "fact" checkers feel they must give Democrats the top honors occasionally.

There was not a SINGLE fact that the Democrats got wrong about Ryan's Medicare killing proposal. It's not a lie of the year, or a lie at all, to point out that replacing Medicare with an inferior voucher program with the "Medicare" label slapped on is KILLING Medicare.

As one person pointed out, putting a Mercedes hood ornament on a Ford Pinto does not magically turn the Pinto into a Mercedes. But by Politifact's standards of objectivity, it would be a lie, at least if it was a Democrat complaining about the mislabeled Pinto. These fact checkers have become a joke. Instead of checking facts, they've degenerated into outfits whose purpose is to enforce the corporate media's policy of false equivalency, which is sold to the public as "impartiality" -- which is as big a lie as Paul Ryan calling his Medicare killing policy Medicare.

JoAnnaSmith1

Now that you have shot off your mouth with:

""Allowed the Senate"? Just as the Senate has no power over what the House does, the House has no power over what the Senate does. Are you guys that naive to even write this tripe?"

You might want to look at the U.S. Constitution article I, § 5, cl. 4. which provides that "Neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting."

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Beverly! Happy holidays to you!

Thanks Newday,

To everyone I couldn't control myself this morning and Yes the tears are flowing. but, It's a wonderful thing to be able to communicate with like minded people who do care not just about me but this country as well; meaning liberals. I'd like to share one more thing last my grandson asked me to turn off FOX NOISE because it hurt his little feelings. If an 8 yr old can see that why can't others?

I'm gonna take his advice.

How can the GOP even show face without embarrassment to the people better et try to gain grounds for votes for President of the US. OMG they are holding this coutnry and our funds hostage for they made promises to wealthy corps and Individuals NOT TO RAISE THEIR TAXES IN EXCHANGE FOR KICKBACKS AND CAMPAIGN DONATIONS>

THE GOP ARE PATHETIC GREEDY AND MISERABLE HUMANS BEINGS WHO DON"T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT US THE PEOPLE! MR. Obama may not be the greatest President but at least is trying to help as the GOP continues to say NO! romney wouldn't be anywhere wthout his money, Newt just runs his mouth, and Michelle cannot speak with a script to follow.

Speaking of Michele ---wonder where you got that lovely gold neckllace worn on the Today Show this morn---did you purchase it with Campaign DONATIONS???? Yeah it is obvious where your values lie---why not take it off sell the necklace and donate those funds BACK TO THE PEOPLE!

The GOP really does stand for GREEDY OPPOSITIONAL PISS-ANTS!

• bye bye Weeper of the House
• bye bye Tea Party! good riddance!!!
• Obama 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another interesting aspect of Politifact's ridiculous "Lie of the Year" nonsense shows the difference in philosophies between progressives and conservatives: Progressives like Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, and Paul Krugman are directly challenging Politifact -- with actual FACTS about the Ryan proposal. In the past when Republicans have gotten the same award for real lies like the hateful one they told about nonexistent "death panels" to kill the elderly, the Republicans didn't ' challenge the fact checkers at all, or, in one instance, point to Fox News' high ratings as proof that their lie is the truth. Progressives believe in truth. Conservatives believe that fooling enough people into believing a lie makes it the truth.

I'm absolutely certain that this is a very tough time for you Beverly. Please know that you and your family are still in my prayers. So glad that your grandchildren have someone like you, who is so caring and involved in the issues that matter, in their lives.

Did I hear that right? Did most of the house Republicans just go home for the holidays? I have never seen such arrogance. Absolutism is what kills you in politics. RIP House GOP.

Beverly - I wish you and your grand kids the very best of this season. Be strong for them........yes you can.

Beverly, Merry Christmas and good thoughts to you and your family; I know how difficult it will be.

Hey Joe, what's it cost to fumigate a double wide these days?

mini071: "Neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting."

You're out of context - that is only in the case of concurrent resolutions.

Nice try though.

Three Reasons why NBC's Partisan Political Opinions are completely irrelevant:

1) Chuck Fraud

2) Chuck Fraud

and yes

3) Chuck Fraud

Sit on it and Twirl Chuck.

What?-3106699

Faux News is calling... they need your brain back for further indoctrination....

While I personally agree that a 2 month extension is the absolute wrong approach (they need to stay there and get their jobs done and pass at least a 1 year extension - even if it means working through the holidays), I do think the Republicans are going to take a political beating on this one.

At some point maybe things will get bad enough that both parties will put people in leadership positions that are more concerned with the country than the party...unfortunately, we have no such leaders today in congress or the white house.

NewtISaPIG - Now now, it isn't nice to make fun of the mentally challenged during the Christmas season.

Chuck Todd - If you are seeing this Chuck, Merry Xmas!

JoannaSmith1:

you said "You're out of context - that is only in the case of concurrent resolutions."

The only context is the rest of Article 1 (The Legislative Branch) of the Constitution - which says nothing about concurrent resolutions. Unless you want to read in Article VI and the Supremacy Clause..

Auntie Fascist

While your remark was hysterical, I thought I should let you know that Phinephancy has asked a day of peace for today with no name calling. Which technically you have achieved; but in the 'spirit' of the discourse,...you may have laid bare. (hysterical though, and tomorrow I will give you a shout out!)

mini1071: The only context is the rest of Article 1 (The Legislative Branch) of the Constitution - which says nothing about concurrent resolutions. Unless you want to read in Article VI and the Supremacy Clause

Well now you have your answer.

Here, lets turn this around a bit. When's the last time one house of congress asked the other for permission to adjourn?

Bev, all my love and prayers go out to you and yours. Happy Holidays.

@Clara

Tell me if I am wrong, but Happy Hanukkah!

Ahhh Jodi In IA.

And I had so much respect for your postings. Then I saw the icon, and it is a little glaring! As you neighbor to the north, Merry Xmas, even to a Hawkeye fan.

Merry Christmas to all you conservatives out there.

In the words of the most powerful Democrat lady in the House of Representatives of the United States of America: the rest of you can "go to hell". She really isn't very nice is she? I give her a lump of coal.

Auntie Facist 1.61 - just double your costs and you will have your answer.

How can republicans not see we the economy, the middle class need these Tax cuts to continue for another year ? Why does it have to be tethered together with other issues ?1,000 is huge when other taxes are going up..

Hey Joe, what's it cost to fumigate a double wide these days?

_________________________________________________________

You're going to have to do your own research to see if you are getting a fair price for fumigating your double wide home. Try Google.

Gotta go prep the grill for another fillet and AK sockeye salmon lunch with a couple of Sam's.

Life is good.

Enjoy.

Auntie Facist 1.61 - just double your costs and you will have your answer.

___________________________________________

LOL!!!

Let's be clear. The Republican led House has no concern for the vast majority of the American people. The people should be empowered to vote for raises for Congress. I, for one, would cut their salaries.

IR:

Thank you so much. I wonder why I have to be reminded.

To start this post, Merry Christmas To All.

@Beverly, I started to share tears after your post about your Grandson. I want to give a heart felt thought of prayers and love at this time.. Gather around family and make the best of this holiday season and celebrate. It will be difficult at times, but the joy of the little smiles at gifts opening will make it a bit more simple. Put on some Christmas Music and let the joy fill your heart and I know it can and will.....God bless and have a Merry Christmas

Joe

I am lucky enough to be able to commercial fish for Alaska sockeye. I get to eat it year round. It is the best. Enjoy your meal and the best to you and yours.

Of course the RICH don't want the tax cut for the Middle class, if that happened Tax revenues would decline and guess who the Government will be looking to get that revenues from, the RICH, Gee I guess sometimes being RICH can be a burden ..... NOT .... LMAO

Time for all serious GOP men and women to step away from the Tea Party. The American people will deal swift justice to teabaggers in the coming elections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beverly, I wish you the best and warm regards.

Clara, with all due respect to you, Phancy and all posters of good will, regardless of affiliation, I respect the sentiment. Hell, I may even try to do it! That said, I neither grab my ankles, unilaterally surrender, nor tolerate heaping piles of b@llsh#t that people are trying to pass off as low fat chocolate pudding.

Now, back to Joe in Albany. What inadequacies are you attempting to cover up flaunting your prosperity? Next time, save the Sam's (one thing we can agree on) until you're finished posting for the day!

Well FR editors, thanks for the morning chuckles... without your twisted spin how else would the FR lib posters have someting to blather on about.

Interesting on how many posters have started thinking that the house needs to agree implicity with bills passed by the senate. I wonder why many of them don't think that the senate should do the same for house passed bills?

Our constitution set up a system to resolve such differences, now the senate wants to cut and run.

I am lucky enough to be able to commercial fish for Alaska sockeye.

_____________________________________________

The best salmon I have ever had was on a rafting trip through Canada and SE AK. The last day was just off the Pacific and the guide's trade all the leftover fresh goods with a summer fishing camp for salmon no more than a couple of hours out of the water. I've only had the chance to fish for AK salmon once, on vacation, for silvers in the Vadez Arm. I shipped enough home to hand out fillets to family and friends and save about 4 months worth for my grill. I would do it bigger next time. Where I live the best I can get is wild caught frozen sockeye, but, it's still great on the grill. Enjoy your holidays.

What inadequacies are you attempting to cover up flaunting your prosperity?

_________________________________________________

None. I just know financially successful people annoy the Hell out of lefty liberals just by existing. You are proof of that.

Gotta go. The grill should be just about the right temp now.

Joe

In the past I have traded fresh fish for the left overs that rafters have had. Their trip ended near our landing strip in Dry Bay, Alaska. It was great to get canned bacon and powdered eggs when you're out in the wilderness for long periods of time. I have taken some rafters out in my boat and picked a very fresh fish right from the net for them. You weren't by any chance ending your rafting trip on the Alsek river? If so, you have probably met some very good friends of mine.

Merry Christmas

The chump morons who got put in as faux conservatives and Republicans want nothing to pass at all, even if it works. This is the loud, PITA voice of the Douchebaggers (as opposed to the loud, PETA voice of the seal sex loving extreme leftists). No one posting here should support this lack of passage and then call themselves a member of the right because they'll just be lying. Boehner is held hostage by the pee-pants want to be, Paris Hiltony, prima donnas. He'd like to do his job, he just isn't being allowed to by some knuckleheaded, red-faced, ill educated and ill informed group of douchebagger politicians. Still waiting for the actual conservatives to come back and take over the Republicans. We need it, though we probably aren't going to get it because of the douchebaggers.

Johanna, you wonder why Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi don't appoint conferees and deal with the tax cut impasse (#1.9). Have you momentarily forgotten that Rep. Pelosi is no longer Speaker of the House?

Bruce: Johanna, you wonder why Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi don't appoint conferees and deal with the tax cut impasse (#1.9). Have you momentarily forgotten that Rep. Pelosi is no longer Speaker of the House

And as Minority Leader, Ms. Pelosi is responsible for appointing the House Democrats that represent her party on the conference committee. Or do you prefer Speaker Boehner to do it for her?

Tony, that was a lovely thought for Beverly. Scott the author is not unknown. Google it. At least you didn't attribute it to Lincoln like the right wingers who constantly use it do.

Derek,

I find it interesting and scary that you angry rant matches your icon perfectly. Hopefully, you will find some solace this holiday season and relax a little.

Beverly, Best wishes and hugs to you and your family. I've been there and things eventually get less painful. Thankfully the good memories stay and the pain lessons. Take care of yourself to, it's so easy to forget to do that when being the rock isn't it?

Everyone else, grab and hug family and friends and put on hold if you(we) can the worries of the world. We're alive, better than the alternative.

The republicans have the option of passing a clean bill containing only the payroll tax cut, the unemployment benefits package and the SS program assistance or

trying to pass the same bill filled with pork for the 1%.

PASS A CLEAN BILL AND HELP THESE DESPERATE AMERICANS....!!!!!

Whether struggling Americans get relief or not is all on this republican congress....they can pass a clean bill in less than 24 hours....

FIGHT OVER THE PORK LATER...........

It is obvious that the republicans are willing to take money away from the 99% in need in order to ensure more wealth for the 1%...........

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!......................GET RID OF THESE TREASONOUS UNAMERICAN CHAMPIONS OF THE 1%.....BY GETTING RID OF THEM WE SAVE OURSELVES AND AMERICA AND BY SAVING AMERICA WE SAVE OURSELVES...CATCH 22.................THE KEY IS GETTING RID OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.......

LOTS OF NEW PARTIES WAITING TO BE BORN AMID THE ASHES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY......THE DAWN OF A NEW DAY....

VOTE ALL REPUBLICANS OUT OF OFFICE.

As George W. Bush once said............."YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US."...........and the republican party has proven repeatedly they are most stridently AGAINST US, THE 99%.

@ Crackhouse

Who here believes that Democrat Leader Reid was surprised - by Speaker Boehner's refusal to pass the middle-class Payroll Cut Extension?

1. We know Democrats plan & vote in lockstep. They dutifully follow the orders of Soros and benefactors. The record shows they do it EVERY time, no matter who is punished by it.

2. ACORN/Goldman Sachs/DNC strategies are not developed overnight.

3. George Soros & Goldman Sachs spent $BILLIONS in 2008 getting the Socialist & Progressive faction into every part of government. And now they are under orders to get the Keystone Pipeline unfunded, as well as regulate every portion of our lives and raise taxes for the 50% that actually pays taxes.

4. Let's be clear. DNC/George Soros aren't in the business of being responsible and making America prosperous. That is not what they care about.

WHO BELIEVES THIS DNC/Soros TACTICAL MANEUVER WAS UNPLANNED?

Poor poor Scott. No one is trying to destroy the rich. No one is trying to destroy the strong. No one is trying to do any of the things you post. I believe I understand your problem. You have allowed yourself to be polarized to the point of stupid and ignorant of facts that are right in front of our faces. You are wrong. Dead wrong. Show a little honor for yourself and your country as americans voted for this president and he has turned out to be a damned good one.

It's funny when people are so hyper-partisan that they cannot see their own idiocy.

King Harry doesn't allow and up or down vote on nearly all Republican passed legislation, and the libbie lunatics are absolutely fine, but when the House does the same thing, well then it is evil/wrong/Koch Bros/Norquist craziness.

Clearly if First Read were an accurate picture of the voting populace, we would have super-majorities in the House and Senate. And yet here we are, with a Republican House, and a Senate that does nearly nothing but vacate and stonewall. 

Well, at least all the millionaire Democrat Senators are going to enjoy their richie-rich Christmas, and screw everyone else.

We pay them six-figures to do their job and they run home when the work is not done. If this were the other way around, all the lunatic libbies would be screaming to high heaven about the dereliction of duty. 

Then go home and return in January with a united House-Senate strategy that forces Democrats to make specific policy choices that highlight the differences between the parties on spending, taxes and regulation.

To the WSJ -- "the specific policy choices that highlight the differences between the parties" have already been made clear. The Teapublicans don't want the tax holiday for the middle class, and if there is to be a tax cut for the middle class, then it must be paid for (unlike tax cuts for the rich). The GOP/TP want to pay for the tax holiday by cutting jobs, freezing wages, and slashing UE for the working class thereby defeating the purpose of the tax holiday. Instead the Dem's want a small surtax on a small number of rich so the working class can get a small break for a small time until the economy recovers. What's new? And we already know a majority of Americans agree with the Dems.

So that takes care of spending and taxes. How about regulation? How this applies to the payroll tax holiday is unknown, unless we talk about the unrelated Keystone pipeline and inevitable spill and who will be responsible for clean up and how.

But you forgot another very important difference WSJ -- the Dems standing for The People by protecting safety nets, like unemployment insurance. The GOP has been trying to chip away at all entitlements for a long time whether Paul Ryan's privatization of Medicare, or Teapublicans trying to cut Social Security though this is not a factor in deficits, and now they are trying to "reform" unemployment, most notably requiring drug tests.

Yes, let's highlight this, because this IS Big Government. Not just in terms of liberties and injecting government into private life, but in terms of adding a program at a cost. This has already been tried by Gov. Rick Scott in Florida, and it FAILED miserably. Only 2% tested for drugs, which is way below the national average of 5%, leaving Florida tax payers to pick up the tab for the 98% of drug tests passed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JS1 -- Why don't you read other posts, the articles, heck try watching MSNBC instead of FOX Noise, and you wouldn't be asking silly questions. The reason a "conference" is being rejected -- not only by the Dems, but also McConnell and Republicans in the Senate is because the two-month extension was; 1) passed with a bipartisan vote of 89 out of 100 senators, a bipartisan vote this large that has not occurred in a long time, 2) everyone knows if the vote had been allowed in the House it would have passed, and 3) the "conference" is a sad gimmick for House leaders to try to save face, and possibly more diabolical by which Tyranny of the Minority would try to "jam their laws down our throats."

I say possibly diabolical because five (5) of the eight (8) members Boehner appointed to the conference have openly stated they don't want the tax cut at all. But this business of a minority ultra conservative group that represent only 5% of the country dictating to the rest of congress and America what will or will not be by circumventing our constitutional democracy MUST end NOW.

So here it is folks, either Boehner waves the white flag or prepare yourselves for a Republican Tax Hike. Brilliant--We should have the Teapublicans thrown out of office in not time!

Wow..

S'all you got: Soros, Acorn, Winston Churchill's noggin in the Oval Office, In God we Trust, blocking millionaires from getting unemployment insurance and food stamps.

GOP/Koch solving problems that don't exist:

Wasting our time and taxpayer dollars, no Jobs Bills, blocking 2 million jobs in the President's AJA.

Instead of passing overwhelmingly supported (89-10) Senate Bills - that will extend a payroll tax cut to 160 million people and unemployment insurance to the unemployed through not fault of their own......before Christmas.

Boehner sent the House home without voting. He was afraid to let it come up for a vote, because IT WILL PASS IF HE DOES.

Not tactics? And for who?

Hey Joe in Albany-

did you even read the whole article that you stated? If you had you might have read this paragraph as well:

"With a few small tweaks to their attack lines, Democrats could have been factually correct, said Norman Ornstein, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. "I actually think there is no need to cut out the qualifiers and exaggerate," he said.

At times, Democrats and liberal groups were careful to characterize the Republican plan more accurately. Another claim in the ad from the Agenda Project said the plan would "privatize" Medicare, which received a Mostly True rating from PolitiFact. President Barack Obama was also more precise with his words, saying the Medicare proposal "would voucherize the program and you potentially have senior citizens paying $6,000 more."

So yes it will still be called medicare but the program will be nothing like it is today- which politifact acknowledges but elects to pretend is not the end of Medicare... only the end of Medicare in its current form. On top of that...

"Even when explained accurately, the Republicans’ Medicare plan was not particularly popular with the public, nor with some independent health policy analysts."

Theseare taken from the article you were refering to. Sometimes you have to read past the first paragraph.

Ptown27 -- OMG, that's the most absurd propaganda post I've seen in a long time. Get out of the right-wing Echo Chamber and Cone of Silence as fast as you can -- hurry, and maybe you can save what little is left of your brain from being brainwashed!

I understand that this is be nice day, I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and a Happy Holiday Season.

PS I will pray for my FR friends that have heavy hearts, and health issues, and I am very grateful for those that have done the same for me.

For those that do not believe in the power of prayer just send cash!

When are liberals going to understand? The economy is in poor shape and will not recover until there is some kind of stable atmosphere for business to operate in. Passing a two month plan certainly doesn't create stability. The House is right, the Senate screwed up.

"Foist on their own petard."

Pity the poor GOP for they have sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. Living in Oklahoma I know quite a bit about whirlwinds. We call them Tonadoes, same thing. They are uncontrollable and extremely destructive resulting is catastrophic property loss and sometimes, tragically, even death.

President Reagan sowed the wind when he set aside the Fairness Doctrine in broadcasting. That single act has proven to be one of the most destructive acts in the history of the United States. In an attempt to side-step the "liberal media" filters and allow the wide-spread broadcast of right wing propaganda under the auspices of "News" and information he set in motion that which will destroy his party and this nation if not checked. He unwittingly created the the machine that would create the whirlwind. The Tea Party.

Ask Speaker Boehner, privately and off the record, what he thinks of the Tea Party and you might just be surprised at his answer. The Tea Party members of Congress are like the whirlwind. They are uncontrollable and very destructive. They have destroyed Boehner's speakership, they may destroy the Republican Party and they will most certainly destroy America if they are not stopped. Now I'm not all that concerned about the survival of the Speaker, his legacy or his party, but I am concerned the future of this country.

Boehner and the GOP have been "foist on their own petard", to quote Shakespeare. Their propaganda arm, conservative talk radio and FOX NEWS, made it possible for a few powerful and wealthy men to create a monster that none of them can now control. The Tea Party. They are reaping the whirlwind.

A "petard" by the way is a bucket shaped explosive device which a suicidal group of volunteers would run up and place on the gates of a fortress or castle in order to knock the gates down and open the fortress to assault. But petards were tricky things and sometimes they would go off prematurely blowing up the men placing the device along with the gate. Hence, Shakespeare's famous line the GOP's current dilemna.

But now that the Tea Party genie is out of the bottle it's up to us to return him to his prison and set the cork firmly in the bottle.

Remember, a whirlwind is uncontrollable and very destructive. If we don't replace those Tea Party Congressmen and women with more rational folks next Fall they will ultimately destroy this country. Obviously they will cannot be led, just ask Boehner, or controlled.

The Presidential race is in the bag folks. Romney will be the nominee, the evangelical wing of the GOP will vote with their feet and stay away from the polls. The President will be re-elected in an historic landslide. But it will all be for nothing, absolutely nothing, if we don't replace those Tea Party office holders like Michelle Bachman and the rest. And those actions will be meaningless unless we do something to prevent Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdoch from minting a whole new batch of ditto-heads for the next election cycle. We need to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine, or something like it, to prevent ANYBODY from using the public airwaves for nefarious political propaganda in the future.

Simply re-electing the President will be meaningless if we leave him with the same obstructionist, do nothing Congress he has battled for the last three years.

So, on that happy note let me wish you all Happy Winter Solstice

Obama/Biden 2012

The taxpayers have been Bonered by Boehner, yet again.

To the GOP: Your a mean one, mister Grinch!

I predict Boehner may have to resign after this. I have been watching right leaning pundits all day and they are uniform that the GOP dropped the ball with this simple process. You know things are bad when Fox has to ignore the headlines and broadcasts a survey of who people think the sexist congress woman is.

• Progress NOT Regress
• Hope NOT Hate!
• Obama 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• Your TP strong-arm tactics belong back with a certain German Dictator
• Bye Bye Tea Party!!!

You weren't by any chance ending your rafting trip on the Alsek river?

____________________________________________________

You 've got it. It was a 12 day Tatshenshini-Alsek trip. This is some of the most beatiful country I've ever seen. The rivers, the mountains, the wildlife were all spectacular. The best part was for the whole 12 days there were no houses, towns, roads, or bridges. Just pure wilderness. I have about 400 pictures including grizzly bears, lots of birds including bald eagles, and hiking up on Walker Glacier. At Alsek Lake we rafted over to the two glaciers to watch them calving close up. And, because the rafts do all the work of carrying supplies, the food, cooked over a camp fire, was great and served with beer and wine every night. The flight back from Dry Bay to Whitehorse, Yukon was also great. It was in an old taildragger DC-3 passenger plane complete with a flight attendant serving drinks and snacks. It flew low all the way back up the two rivers so you could see your rafting trip from the air. If you like spectacular outdoor experiences, I would highly recommend the Tat-Alsek rafting trip.

John Boehner's own comrades filled a bag of poo, lit it on fire and put it on John's front porch to stomp out. This was a trap set up by Republicans - maybe even Eric Cantor - to embarass John Boehner and to begin the forced removal of an embarassment of their weepy leader. Unfortunately for Republicans, they shot themselves in the foot during the coup. And I believe that, because of his blatant overreach, Eric Cantor's dreams of becoming the house speaker have been quashed once and for all. Quite a merry band of cut-throats, these Tea Partiers.

Once again Republicans... you have proven you are not for this country, but continue to stand with wealthy corporations and individuals. When my payroll taxes go up on January 1, 2012, who shall I write my check payable too?

As far as the article is concerned I agree that house republicans have a big political loser on this one, the left hand did not know what the right hand was doing, Boehner very much appears to be the Speaker of the House that can't speak for his house. McConnell was all smiles and high fives as he left the chamber and appears he thought it was a go in the house, he was as blind sided by house republicans as Boehner was, and he sure has not, and apparently will not come to their rescue, Senate republicans and democrats are going to let the house sweat this one out all by themselves. Same theory as when a small child threatens to hold their breath you just stand back and watch because you know they might turn a little purple but then they will breathe. Republicans made huge gains in the mid-terms but have destroyed whatever good will that produced as evidenced by the lowest approval ratings ever recorded, and Obama's rising approval numbers even in the area of handling the economy. They have handed Obama a big political win no matter how it shakes out, and no matter how he handles it, if it passes he wins, if it does not he wins, if he lets them pout he wins, if he steps in and tries to be a broker between the two house of Congress he wins. That is the only thing that can happen when you are right and the other side is dead wrong but won't admit it, and everybody knows it. Bottom line is this was one big boneheaded play by the house, and even republicans are coming out of the woodwork telling them so, it also puts another nail in the coffin of the eventual republican nominee for president, as the electorate will not give republicans the executive branch, as long as republicans in Congress insist on proving that Obama is the reasonable adult in the room. Welcome to Waterloo House Republicans, you got one year left to let the president help the middle class or you take all the blame, that it the position you have put yourselves in, if you don't believe me then check your approval rating and then check the president's approval rating, his numbers are going up and yours are going down to historic lows.

robert@mo

When are liberals going to understand? The economy is in poor shape and will not recover until there is some kind of stable atmosphere for business to operate in.

Did you think about that statement before you made it? Do you EVER think at all? So, in yur feeble mind you honestly believe that business is making record profits because their "atmosphere is so unstable" or "uncertain" which ever mocked word you choose to use today? Really? Are you really that dense?

OMG, I saw the report on the news about PolitiFact, but forgot how FOX Noise would spin this. PolitiFact is no longer a credible source due to this mistake. The members in PolitiFact voted for the lie about the stimulus not working as the #1 lie of the year. But PoltiFact ignored this, stating that they did not want to appear biased to the Left, so chose the Medicare issue.

Medicare is currently a single-payer, guaranteed health care program. Paul Ryan's plan would turn into a voucher system (not single-payer) in which seniors could only hope to purchase insurance from the private sector (not guaranteed), which is NOTHING like the current system. Anyone with half a brain can see that by merely calling this travesty "Medicare" is the only thing that would stay the same, so Paul Ryan and Teapublicans who support his scam ARE the biggest liars of the year.

And this is why, despite PolitiFact's biggest mistake of their existence, Paul Ryan Hood is running scared to save his seat and trying to work with a Democrat to revise his diabolical arse-backward "take from the poor to give to the rich" scheme. The proof is right there!

Joe in Albany -- You have topped yourself in parroting the biggest squawking point of the day!

These republicans look like a school of "Minnows lost in a mudpuddle, looking for an exit trench".

Lusitania -- Good point. Not only are sales taxes and other taxes going up (to compensate for loss of revenue from the rich and corporations, as well as the working middle class who have lost job land have seen their wages stagnate), but inflation has increased too (thus a large COLA for Social Security). But let's face it, most reps in congress are well-to-do, and some are part of the 1%. They spend $1,000 on a restaurant/bar tab in one evening, so that seems like a paltry, meaningless amount of money to them.

Bandit's Filly -- What is a fair amount? I've heard many right-wingers ask this question, and must admit that I've only seen one progressive leader respond directly so far (because they don't want to affect their negotiating position). But many moderates who lean to the left, pundits, and folks like myself have answered that question (that you falsely believe is so clever) and that FOX Noise will never report -- We support Jan Schkowsky's Fairness in Taxation bill. Now that this has been answered, you can stop asking this not so clever question -- Thank you.

todd- KCKS

Hey Joe in Albany-

did you even read the whole article that you stated?

Theseare taken from the article you were refering to. Sometimes you have to read past the first paragraph.

____________________________

And this is from PolitiFact’s own article:

Liberal bloggers and columnists contend it's accurate to say Republicans voted to end Medicare. Left-leaning websites such as Talking Points Memo, Daily Kos, and The New Republic said PolitiFact's analysis was wrong, as did New York Times columnist Paul Krugman.

In a blog post, the DCCC stood by its claim, saying the ad accurately stated Ryan's plan would "abolish" Medicare.

But PolitiFact was not alone. Other independent fact-checkers also said the claim was false.

"Medicare would remain an entitlement program, but it would also be more costly to future beneficiaries. It would not end," noted FactCheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania. The Washington Post’s Fact Checker concluded that while there’s "a worthwhile debate" about whether Ryan’s proposal should be adopted, "it is not true to claim Republicans are trying to ‘kill’ Medicare."

Sometimes you have to read more than only the parts that support your preconceived notions.

cdahl, thanks for the shout out! Nice to see you here today. Always enjoy your thoughtful posts even when we disagree. Definitely, the icon catches the eye. If it helps, I cheer for all Iowa teams but I just can't help favoring the Hawkeyes! Merry Christmas to you!

The members in PolitiFact voted for the lie about the stimulus not working as the #1 lie of the year. But PoltiFact ignored this, stating that they did not want to appear biased to the Left, so chose the Medicare issue.

Anyone with half a brain can see that by merely calling this travesty "Medicare" is the only thing that would stay the same, so Paul Ryan and Teapublicans who support his scam ARE the biggest liars of the year.

________________________________________________

Gee, and here I thought PolitiFact was an independent fact checking organization.

Who knew (in your opinion) they are supposed to be a popularity contest vote counting organization??

I'll refer you back to PolitiFacts' article comments in number 122:

But PolitiFact was not alone. Other independent fact-checkers also said the claim was false.

Clara:

While your remark was hysterical, I thought I should let you know that Phinephancy has asked a day of peace for today with no name calling. Which technically you have achieved; but in the 'spirit' of the discourse,...you may have laid bare. (hysterical though, and tomorrow I will give you a shout out!)

Yes. There will be plenty of time for justified name-calling in January if the tea bagger tax hike goes into effect, which appears to be a real possibility now. Some of the names the baggers have earned for themselves couldn't even be printed on this message board.

So, here are the two Bills:

House Bill.

1. Keeps this year’s 4.2 percent Social Security payroll tax rate paid by 160 million workers through the end of 2012, instead of rising to 6.2 percent on Jan. 1.

2. Extends expiring benefits for the long-term jobless through 2012, but at a maximum of 79 weeks coverage, less in some cases, which is well below this year’s 99-week limit. Revamps program to require beneficiaries without high school diplomas to seek an equivalent degree; lets states test applicants for illegal drug use.

3. Prevents 27 percent cut in Medicare payments to doctors for 2012.

4. Blocks Obama administration rule curbing pollution from industrial boilers; extends tax break for businesses buying equipment for 2012.

5. Requires President Barack Obama to approve the Keystone XL oil pipeline within 60 days unless he declares the project would not serve the national interest.

6. Paid for by extending current pay freeze on civilian federal workers another year through 2013 and requires them to contribute more toward their pensions; raises fee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac charge for insuring mortgages; raises Medicare premiums paid by higher-income elderly; cuts some health care overhaul law programs; sells part of broadcast spectrum; prevents illegal immigrant parents from collecting child tax credit refund checks; bars food stamps, unemployment benefits for the wealthy.

7. Price tag $180 billion.

Senate Bill.

1. Extends 2-percentage-point cut in Social Security payroll tax through Feb. 29.

2. Renews benefits for the long-term unemployed at current levels through Feb. 29, no other changes in program.

3. Prevents 27 percent cut in Medicare payments to doctors; extends other health care fees through Feb. 29.

4. Same provision on Keystone as House.

5. Paid for by increasing home loan guarantee fees charged to mortgage lenders by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration by one-tenth of 1 percentage point. The fee is passed on to home buyers and will apply to many new purchases and refinancing starting Jan. 1.

6. Price tag $33 billion.

Now. The only difference is #2 and #4 in the House Bill. Along with the other difference that the House wants the Bill to extend for 12 months, which gives some certainty albeit not much, to businesses in the near future. If we use the projections from the Senate Bill regarding paying for this we actually save $19 Billion Dollars. Who wouldn’t go for this?

Just guess.

That’s right, the limp-wristed little Libbies. They apparently cannot find $147 Billion Dollars (the difference between the $180 Billion and $33 Billion) to fund this tax extension for 12 months! This is 4% of our budget (including deficit).

Hmmmmm, lemme see if I can find some for them.

The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008. I can guarantee you this is even higher today.

Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve. If we eliminate these useless programs we can use this to pay for the Payroll Tax cut legislation AND continue to save $123 Billion dollars every year. So, for the next 9 years we can save $1.1 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!!

GRAND TOTAL - $195 Billion Dollars! More than enough to pay for this useless political ploy.

Once again, the only buffoons who won’t go for this are the social program loving Liberals, even though most of them don’t help anyway.

The Democrats are so full of S**T they can’t even walk straight.

But of course the little dependent lemmings will keep listening to uncle Hairy and Nanny Piglosi.

Liberals, pathetic.

ABO(Anybody But Obama) 2012

Joe in Albany

"Medicare would remain an entitlement program, but it would also be more costly to future beneficiaries. It would not end," noted FactCheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania. The Washington Post’s Fact Checker concluded that while there’s "a worthwhile debate" about whether Ryan’s proposal should be adopted, "it is not true to claim Republicans are trying to ‘kill’ Medicare."

The original Ryan plan killed off Medicare and replaced it with a voucher system Ryan would call "Medicare." If these so-called fact checkers are calling that voucher system "Medicare," then they telling a Lie of the Year themselves.

By the way, Joe. I could get you a nice Mercedes Benze for 30K. It used to be a Ford Pinto, but with the Mercedes Benz hood ornamanent on it, it's just as good as any other Mercedes. If anyone tells you it's still just a Pinto, they're lying!!!

Awww Freedom-

What's a few billion here or there between friends? :)

Isn't it weird that a million used to be a big deal, and now a billion is starting to seem as not that unknowable or understandable? As far as just thinking of the numbers themselves.

Joe in Albany

GOP/Koch Oil Industries/Norquist

WHO BELIEVES THIS GOP/KOCH TACTICAL MANEUVER WAS UNPLANNED?

________________________________________

Backhouse: I sure hope you check under your bed for these monsters before going to sleep. If they are as clever and evil as you think they are, it would be no problem for them to find you and attack you in the middle of the night.

BOO!!!

LMAO@U!!!!!!

It's OK Joe, we know how to make the monsters go away...the 2012 Election...ROFLMAO

Faerieschyld

LOL! I hear ya.

This is what continues to boggle the minds of all rational thinking Americans.

How can ANYONE in their right mind continue to support our criminal government? How can anyone even think of giving them more of our hard earned tax dollars to continue their waste, fraud, abuse and corruption? If I was in the demonized 1% I wouldn't even dream of agreeing to give this massive, out of control bureaucracy another penny of my money until the government can prove it can account for EVERY SINGLE PENNY OF OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!

This is what happns when We The People become so preoccupied with attaining the American Dream, which has been bastardized into "Keeping up with the Joneses", and forget to watch our government being consumed by Progressivism to the point of insolvency.

Just the other day this pathetic administration was patting themselves on the back about saving $60 Million dollars by cutting the border troops to 300 men. While I and you still consider $60 million dollars a lot of money, I DO NOT want the protection of our borders compromised. Protecting our borders IS one of the Enumerated Powers of our Constitution that the Federal government is responsible for. The $60 million dollar savings is 0.0016% of our budget! We need 26,666 program cuts of $60 Million dollars JUST to eliminate our DEFICIT!

This is how ridiculous and unsustainable our government has become. Anyone agreeing to giving ANY more money to our government -- Federal, State or Local -- whether they are rich or poor are either illiterate or desperate for more handouts from the successful. Once our government fixes its massive Debt problems, lives within its budget as directed by the Constirurion and can prove it is efficient and revenue neutral no more money can be given to it.

How can anyone even think of giving them more of our hard earned tax dollars to continue their waste, fraud, abuse and corruption? If I was in the demonized 1% I wouldn't even dream of agreeing to give this massive, out of control bureaucracy another penny of my money until the government can prove it can account for EVERY SINGLE PENNY OF OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!

You forget, this is a revenue problem as well. You cannot be serious about cutting the deficit when you exclude possibilities of raising taxes on those who can take a raise. The top 1% own nearly 40% of the nation's wealth, and the top 20% own nearly 90% of the nations wealth. It makes sense to raise taxes on that group, especially when their tax rate is at a historical low.

FreedomRingsLoud -- The two bill comparison (though it's nice to see a conservative do some homework) is a moot point because it is ONLY for purposes of allowing two more months so proper negotiation can take place, get it? In addition to the homework, try some critical thinking -- Argh!

FreedomRingsLoud:

That's right, the limp-wristed little Libbies. They apparently cannot find $147 Billion Dollars (the difference between the $180 Billion and $33 Billion) to fund this tax extension for 12 months! This is 4% of our budget (including deficit).

But the "libbies" most certainly did find the money to pay for a full year's extension: a modest surtax on high incomes that would affect a mere 300,000 people. But they had to drop that idea to save the middle class tax cut the Senate Republicans would accept. The "connies" would rather see the middle class get a tax hike than see their wealthy paymasters suffer the indignity of a tax increase they wouldn't even make a dent in their life styles.

Something's ringing LOUDLY, but it sure ain't freedom.

Not surprising, this guy is the laziest, do nothing president we have ever had. His answer to everything is; "not my yob mon"

Mr. Anon

The top 1% own nearly 40% of the nation's wealth, and the top 20% own nearly 90% of the nations wealth.

Mr. Anon. you're getting your mord's wixed (word's mixed). You're criticizing the wealthy for their wealth. Taxes address income, NOT WEALTH.

80% of millionaires are first generation wealthy. They did NOT inherit their wealth, win the Lotto or rob a bank. They worked hard, saved their money, practiced frugality, invested their money wisely and independently and take care of themselves and their own. They took an idea and built a business, they create commerce, THEY EARNED THEIR WEALTH! Neither you or I have any right to take more from them. If you want more, save more, invest better, be frugal, don't expect handouts from those that deserve every penny they earned.

Now, if you think we should start taxing wealth you're walking a very fine line between capitalism and communism. As I've posted numerous times, and I'm sure you Liberal's understand this, regardless of the upper tax brackets we have taxed the wealthy the overall tax receipts stay within a very tight range of about 18% +/- of GDP. Income taxes stay around 8.6% of GDP. The problem is, the criminal progressive tax code that is 72,000+ pages long and changes every single day.

Again, what assures you so much that our criminal government can redistribute the added revenue to the "less fortunate" when we have spent 45 years and $12 Trillion Dollars (estimates range between $12 Trillion and $19 Trillion dollars) on the "war on poverty". In 1965 the poverty rate was 14% and today it is 14.3%? How many more tens of trillions of dollars will it take to make life fair. Finally, who will determine what is fair? You? Me?, Our corrupt government? A "Fairness Czar"?

You can keep throwing your money into the bottomless pit known as government. I believe the American people can do a much better job with OUR money remaining in OUR pockets.

THIS EXPLAINS ALOT ABOUT THE "CORRUPTER-IN-CHIEF" .

Have you ever marveled at the coordinated "messages" that come out of the Liberal main-stream media? How they all match the same message? To drum in the same talking points to the uniformed masses? And take ordersfor the support of Obama's campaign by promoting him?

This is how:

Obama coffees with Progressive Media

"An all-star list of progressive and liberal media folks came to the White House today to chat with President Obama over coffee in the Roosevelt Room.
The group chatted with the president about economic messaging, his agenda for 2012, the various campaign arguments against different GOP candidates, the desire among some Democrats for him to highlight his foreign policy accomplishments, fighting corporate influence and the "crappiness" of the Senate filibuster , as one attendee put it."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/potus-has-coffee-with-progressive-media-stars/

Houston!

But the "libbies" most certainly did find the money to pay for a full year's extension: a modest surtax on high incomes that would affect a mere 300,000 people.

OK, I'll bite. Show me the two pieces of legislation that 1). shows the amount of that "modest surtax" and it's attendant CBO rating 2). shows that every penny of that revenue being used ONLY for paying down the tax cut debt.

Don't bother, neither of them exist. They never do exist.

Why can't you Libbies use the House version as it's described, to pay off the tax cut debt? Demand that legislation is included that shows the money saved can ONLY go to debt reduction.

That ringing in your ear isn't tinnitus, it's the delusion that our government has any intention of paying off our massive debt.

TruePatriot-445959

it is ONLY for purposes of allowing two more months so proper negotiation can take place, get it?

Hmmmm, so you're telling me that between January 5th, when Congress reconvenes, and February 29th of 2012, they will somehow find the magic solution to this? Why couldn't they do it for the past few months of this year, they knew this tax cut was expiring all year. What other critical legislation were they concerned with that consumed all their time until the past couple weeks?

Hint: There was none. This is purely political posturing and it will only get worse in 2012. I'll bet you "dollars to donuts" this is just a regurgitant continuing resolution through next year, strictly for political purposes.

Finally, for both of you. Why do you Liberals continue to condone our criminal government's massive waste, fraud and abuse of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars?

Outgoing Director of the CMS Donald Berwick just reported our health care system has 15-20% of waste, fraud and abuse. $150 Billion to $250 Billion dollars EVERY YEAR! Our government willingly admits this. Obama admitted it during the Health Care redistribution of Wealth hoax debates. Why do you continue to submit your hard earned money to a corrupt government?

Freedom, you don't understand. Income in the United States is just as skewed as wealth, if not more (http://www.lcurve.org/). Yes, that is the graph of income distribution. Taxes for the wealthiest Americans are at an all time low right now. In addition (and we're in a recession here) the top 1% is at their richest since Coolidge's presidency.

Why do you Liberals continue to condone our criminal government's massive waste, fraud and abuse of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars?

Do you have evidence of this? Obama's spending cut plans have focused quite a lot on cutting on wasteful spending. Unless your definition of "waste, fraud and abuse" is very different from ours, in which case your point is moot?

What a waste of hot air. If a bill is going to be passed, it should be for more then 2 months. Why did the senate pass a 2 month bill that it knew wouldn't get thru the house? Because they wanted to go on vacation. And Obama is starting his taxpayer paid vacation soon. Like he really cares about anything except getting reelected so he can continue his systematic destruction of the country via executive order.

And watch him pardon Blaggovich, the guy he only met once yet pics show otherwise. Might as well make Chicago the nations capital so it could streamline the destruction.

What a waste of hot air. If a bill is going to be passed, it should be for more then 2 months. Why did the senate pass a 2 month bill that it knew wouldn't get thru the house? Because they wanted to go on vacation. And Obama is starting his taxpayer paid vacation soon. Like he really cares about anything except getting reelected so he can continue his systematic destruction of the country via executive order.

Do you have evidence that presidential vacations are paid by taxpayers? (In any case, presidential salaries are at an all time low). The House version of the bill contained elements that were not approved on, such as the means of paying for it. The Senate version, however, had bipartisan support. Please explain that. If you don't, I consider you in denial.

And watch him pardon Blaggovich, the guy he only met once yet pics show otherwise. Might as well make Chicago the nations capital so it could streamline the destruction.

No evidence here either. Liberals also criticize that guy (see http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich), so your point is only meant for trolling I suppose.

Mr. Anon

"Do you have evidence that presidential vacations are paid by taxpayers?"

The vacation itself is paid by the Obama's, via salary paid for by taxpayers. That is just a piece of it. All of the security details, paid for by taxpayers. All of the security accommodations, paid by taxpayers. All of the vehicles transferred for his enjoyment. How many aircraft involved? Who pays for them? Taxpayers. Are you really that stupid that you don't know?

Spending a presidential salary on a vacation does not increase the amount of money spent by taxpayers. "Paid by taxpayers" implies that a presidential vacation takes up additional money and has a significant impact on the federal deficit/debt. Presidential security is relatively minor in terms of how much it costs, and is not inherently part of a vacation, but rather "comes with the presidency". I would also like evidence that Obama's number of vacations is particularly higher than that of other presidents.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/so-whos-footing-the-bill-for-the-obama-familys-4-million-hawaii-vacation/

Read and weep taxpayer. Ah, but you are not a taxpayer, are you? You think monkey grows on trees, but it is printed and worth nothing more than the government allows. Your government.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/12/18/obamas-4-million-hawaii-vacation/

$4,000,000 is a negligable amount of money on the deficit/debt. I do not think monkeys grow on trees, I don't know where you got that from. Also, you have not given evidence that Obama's vacation spending is particularly greater than that of other presidents.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=67027

More for the clueless.

Mr. Anon

"$4,000,000 is a negligable amount of money on the deficit/debt. I do not think monkeys grow on trees, I don't know where you got that from. Also, you have not given evidence that Obama's vacation spending is particularly greater than that of other presidents."

So write me a check for $4 million and call it negligible on your budget. How many vacations could you buy for 4 mil?

Maybe you could show where any other president at any time in history wasted so much on himself, much less during a time when the same president tried to bankrupt the country. I am sure glad you can afford the taxes to pay for something you are not getting.

The US GDP is $15 trillion. Yes, $4 million is negligable related to that. Again, it is your job to show that Obama has spent particularly more on his trips than other presidents, not mine. You are the one making the claim here, not me. Burden of proof lies on you. Also, last time I checked, with 2009 being on Bush's budget, Obama has decreased the deficit overall (http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html).

If a Tea Party Conservative was the Speaker of the House, none of this gridlock would have happened.

It's always the squishy moderates that please NO ONE, every-time.

This only goes to show that MORE true Conservatives need to replace those squishy moderate RINO's that cause all the problems.

It was not a good move to put a squsihy moderate ( Bohner, Cantor) in a Leadership postion when a new body of true conservatives were chosen by the voters as what they want and who they say represents them

Willing, I can't tell whether you are being serious or not. Putting aside ideologies, it is important for the leaders of congress to be moderate so they can compromise with minorities or the other site.

So RCP is indicating just where the MSM is coming down here, and it looks like the Democrats have the meme on this one, for the first time in a long time...What is up with Sen. McConnell and how P.O'd must he be? I don't think Majority Leader Boehner is in a holiday spirit today either.

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Looks like the whole "Nixon/1968" thing is gaining traction, at least with Sean Trende...

One year that has received scant attention is 1968. Michael Barone recently suggested this parallel -- in the context of the Occupy Wall Street protests -- during a panel discussion we both participated in. The OWS protests have since died down, and weren’t widespread enough to engender the same type of “silent majority” backlash that the counterculture protests of the late ’60s did. But I do think there are a few parallels between 1968 and today, which evoke Ghosts of Elections Past, Present and Future.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/12/21/romney_as_nixon_2012_carries_unsettling_echoes_for_gop_112480.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will Newton even be a factor by the time they hold the Va. primary?

"Will Newton even be a factor by the time they hold the Va. primary?"

I sure hope not! I live here in Va. after all..... Let him stay across the river on K Street in D.C...... and pursue his lobbying interests if anybody is still taking him seriously...

Of all the folks here, you should be rooting for Newton to go the distance, or at least Va.

You're gonna need a new moniker/avatar combo, no?

One day it will be the avatar/moniker of a bygone era...

Dangerfield, wasn't 1968 the year that LBJ made his announcement to not run for Potus?

Seems that "pig" isn't interested in considering alternatives.

The candidate that looks remarkably like my avatar will always be a pig to me - running (at the mouth) or not....

I am told they are going to spend $1.4 dollars next week

I suggest, Mr. Gingrich, that you then spend at least $1.50.

Yes...in '68 the democrats were faced with a choice between "electability" (Humphrey) and "ideological purity" (Gene McCarthy)

Interesting the party that always says tax cut for the rich and no new taxes doesn't mean it if the cut is for working class Americans. Kinda makes them seem a bit hypocritical.

Then go home and return in January with a united House-Senate strategy that forces Democrats to make specific policy choices that highlight the differences between the parties on spending, taxes and regulation.

To the WSJ -- "the specific policy choices that highlight the differences between the parties" have already been made clear. The Teapublicans don't want the tax holiday for the middle class, and if there is to be a tax cut for the middle class, then it must be paid for (unlike tax cuts for the rich). The GOP/TP want to pay for the tax holiday by cutting jobs, freezing wages, and slashing UE for the working class thereby defeating the purpose of the tax holiday. Instead the Dem's want a small surtax on a small number of rich so the working class can get a small break for a small time until the economy recovers. What's new? And we already know a majority of Americans agree with the Dems.

So that takes care of spending and taxes. How about regulation? How this applies to the payroll tax holiday is unknown, unless we talk about the unrelated Keystone pipeline and inevitable spill and who will be responsible for clean up and how.

But you forgot another very important difference WSJ -- the Dems standing for The People by protecting safety nets, like unemployment insurance. The GOP has been trying to chip away at all entitlements for a long time whether Paul Ryan's privatization of Medicare, or Teapublicans trying to cut Social Security though this is not a factor in deficits, and now they are trying to "reform" unemployment, most notably requiring drug tests.

Yes, let's highlight this, because this IS Big Government. Not just in terms of liberties and injecting government into private life, but in terms of adding a program at a cost. This has already been tried by Gov. Rick Scott in Florida, and it FAILED miserably. Only 2% tested for drugs, which is way below the national average of 5%, leaving Florida tax payers to pick up the tab for the 98% of drug tests passed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To any ill-informed conservatives -- The reason a "conference" is being rejected -- not only by the Dems, but also McConnell and Republicans in the Senate is because the two-month extension was; 1) passed with a bipartisan vote of 89 out of 100 senators, a bipartisan vote this large that has not occurred in a long time, 2) everyone knows if the vote had been allowed in the House it would have passed, and 3) the "conference" is a sad gimmick for House leaders to try to save face, and possibly more diabolical by which Tyranny of the Minority would try to "jam their laws down our throats."

I say possibly diabolical because five (5) of the eight (8) members Boehner appointed to the conference have openly stated they don't want the tax cut at all. But this business of a minority ultra conservative group that represent only 5% of the country dictating to the rest of congress and America what will or will not be by circumventing our constitutional democracy MUST end NOW.

So here it is folks, either Boehner waves the white flag or prepare yourselves for a Republican Tax Hike. Brilliant--We should have the Teapublicans thrown out of office in no time!

Collapsing IR's post on if there is a Santa Clause? Really? How very sad for those of you who participated.

Here's my opinion for what it's worth ...

This isn't a win-lose thing.

It clearly demonstrates, though, the absolute bottom of the political sludge that exists in the Harry Reid controlled Senate. My take away ... clear house of the Democrats in the Senate. Keep doing the right thing in the House and ... find a President that knows how to do something other than campaign, play golf, and vote "present".

My message ... "Get your Senatorial A$$es back to work!"

And about the WSJ ... screw them! It wouldn't be the first newspaper or, for that matter, website that is out of touch.

Of course the editors of this Article ignored that by cutting Payroll Tax you take money away from the Elderly and Disabled. Or does that not bother them that the Elderly and Disabled might suffer loss in the meager pay they already get each month?

Why isn't MSNBC defending the Elderly and Disabled in this matter? Why?????

What I thought.

And this is my opinion

It's a sham the TP House is trying to pull on the American people to try to make Obama look bad - at the expense of the American people!!!!. They have no intention of passing a 2 month one or a 1 year extension. When the 1 year extension comes up we'll go thru the same process with Obama giving in and TP adding stupid pork to the proposal, only to NOT pass it at the end over some stupid technicality they'll blame on the President!!!

Tea party need to go BYE BYE bigtime in 2012 and beyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This whole issue has been filled with political stupidity. First, the Senate negotiates a deal that will only extend this tax cut for 2 months, even though EVERYONE says they want it extended for a year. A 2 month extension will do NOTHING of any good. It will raise uncertainty of where Congress will go next, continue the specter of a tax hike, and require more work to adjust budgets for it than it will pay for in tax cuts.

Next, the Dem leadership of the Senate directly threatens a government shutdown by refusing to allow a vote on a House spending bill (which ultimately passed without trouble) to avert a near immediate shutdown, until the House passed the Senate bill, unmodified, which wouldn't have any effect for another two weeks.

Then, the Rep leadership of the House threatens (albeit indirectly) a tax hike unless the Senate comes back from vacation to negotiate a year-long version (which everyone wants on both sides). This is actually not that stupid of a move, but it is risky. The stupid part is when they continue it despite Senate refusals and a public opinion against them. The 2 month extension won't itself do any harm, it just won't do enough good to be worth it, so passing the 2 month extension does buy us two more months to negotiate.

Then, the Senate refuses to come back and negotiate a resolution between House and Senate bills, like they're supposed to, even though they still have two whole weeks to negotiate this to a year-long bill (which, again, everyone wants) before it really has to be passed.

And NOW, the left-leaning MSNBC is blaming it all on the House Reps, even though they've only done one of the four stupid things, and the least stupid of the four, and the gullible liberal readers are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker, even though even a cursory memory of the last few days of pandering is all it takes to see how the House Reps are actually the lesser of the two (four?) idiots here (and note, I'm not saying they're being smart, just less stupid).

*gasp*

Oh, and then there's the impression the media is handing out that, just because Senate Reps negotiated the 2-month extension, the House Reps have to go along with it, without amendment or negotiation. The reality is that this is the whole reason we have both a Senate and a House, with Dems and Reps in both, so that idiotic deals like this that help no one at all can be caught.

Now we all know what to name our Holiday turkeys! Take your pick..... it's a toss-up as to who's the lesser of two evils; the "Bah Humbug" group or "Grinch who Stole Christmas" team of over-paid, spoiled brat 'public servants' of all time.

They've proven they couldn't care less what we think and do as they please!

Just perhaps, the Dom Perignon and Russian Caviar will be the bitter pill they require to shape up...shame on ALL of them!

While the democrats and republicans are playing games, American tax payers are going down to the bottom of the economic ladder. The games they play will bring war to our door step same as those going on in other countries now. This power struggle is killing the American citizens who have supported all societies sense World War II. Are the democrats, republicans, and independents ready to cause a war in America?

@Redfray-4012144

You can and should blame this all on the Tea Party in Congress. Obama and Dems have compromised and compromised. Frankly I don't see how in the world Obama or the Democrats could be implicated in this mess ???

Hold that party line B.S why don't cha....

"don't see how in the world Obama or the Democrats could be implicated in this mess ???"

Unless you get you a daily indoctrination from Faux News and/or Rush that is....

A good tax cut is a permanent tax cut.

That's changes the way investments are made and promotes economic growth.

"Temporary" cuts do not spur investment or growth in the economy. They are just ticking time-bombs.

Wonderful Jody, You always tell it like it is.

Lovely, Jody. Merry Christmas.

Jody,

It is difficult to believe that most of the tears shed by North Koreans were anything more that the usual staged show of unity born out of fear.

When I saw the weeping North Koreans on TV, I immediately thought of all the blue collar workers in this country who vote Republican without realizing they are voting against their self-interest.

On a related note: Please, please, please, Mr. President. Don't cave to the House on this one. Please. I'm on my knees and begging you.

Excellent recap as always, Jody. A lot of material for a short week!

Thanks as always for keeping us informed of events from the "you can't make this stuff up" universe!

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas and all good things in 2012!

Jack in Portsmouth: On a related note: Please, please, please, Mr. President. Don't cave to the House on this one. Please. I'm on my knees and begging you.

There is nothing to cave to Jack. The House and Senate have both passed their bills and there are differences that need to be worked out in a House/Senate conference committee. The GOP has appointed it's conferees while Ms. Pelosi, and Mr. Reid refuse to do so. This is how the process works though, and it has worked that way for hundreds of years. Why do Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid refuse to follow the process? Until this process takes place, there is nothing to cave to.

So you can get off your knees and stop begging Jack. I know you're used to it, but it's really not a pleasant thing to observe.

What Smiffy REALLY means to say, Jack, is that she appreciates this President's efforts on her behalf, and wanted to wish you the happiest of holidays.

Joanna not every bill is worked out in conference,some are just voted on...Especialy when they are the right thing to do and they help almost everyone..

Merry Christmas to all of you, too. Decided to post it today and save tomorrow for fun on FR.

Jack, I don't believe President Obama will bend one bit on this. I think that within the next two days, the GOPTP House will have no choice but to allow that bill to the floor and it will pass with plenty of GOP votes. President Obama has been warning them since September that enough is enough.

JoAnn, is it possible for you to wish someone, who you might disagree with, a happy holiday season? Just once?

sw-philly: Joanna not every bill is worked out in conference,some are just voted on...Especialy when they are the right thing to do and they help almost everyone.

So philly, are you for a 2 month extension of the payroll tax holiday, or a 12 month extension? Which bill helps people more? And do you think President Obama will veto the 12 month extension if it gets to his desk?

I am for a twelve month ext. why didn't they just vote on that without having to put anything else in the bill ?

Merry Christmas.......

Jody wrote "The total combined populations of Greece, the United Kingdom, France and Switzerland equals the number of poor in the United States."

Even as the House just voted to - block millionaires from getting U.I or food stamps. Yes it is so, folks!

Not only did House GOP get paid to do that, it took time away from those who NEED to put food on the table for their families and stay in their houses or pay rent.

Jody, your posts are brilliant and so needed.

Thank you for all your work 2011.

Ahh, newday, you bring a smile to my face with your posts. Thanks.

What Smiffy REALLY means to say, Jack, is that she appreciates this President's efforts on her behalf, and wanted to wish you the happiest of holidays.

And thank you, phinephancy.

Jody--I hope you're right. The thing is, President Obama has too much heart at times. This is what has gotten him into trouble in the past--trying to do what is best for the American people has hurt him politically. This showdown will be a test of his leadership.

If Boehner has to back down, there will be an election for a new speaker when the House returns.

I am for a twelve month ext. why didn't they just vote on that without having to put anything else in the bill ?

So work it out in a conference committee. But there won't be one because the Democrats refuse to participate.

Merry Christmas.......

Merry Christmas to you too.

There should be nothing to " Work out " like I said they should be voting on the ext. and unemployment and nothing else....No pet projects and then they can fight about how to fund it when they come back,.......

Thank you Joann. Hope you and yours have a nice holiday season.

This payroll extension vote is not about President Obama. He laid his position out ABC via the American Jobs Act and already took it around the country for all to seee.

The majority of Americans want the AJA and that includes the payroll tax extension.

This is about 160 million who will pay $40 more per week come January 1st and 2+ million Americans will lose their unemployment benefits, if GOP Congressionals do not sign off on it.

Even as GOP HOUSE refused a 2-month stop-gap, they lied and said they'd pass a year extension. Now they have refused that as well.

Congress has to vote. GOP has to face reality. We can see what they are doing. This is not about President Obama.

The House and Senate have both passed their bills and there are differences that need to be worked out in a House/Senate conference committee. ... This is how the process works though, and it has worked that way for hundreds of years.

Well, Joanna, maybe the House should have actually VOTED on the bill in front of them instead of hiding behind smarmy little procedural ploys. THEN both houses would have passed bills. No, this is all on Boehner and the refusal to even call the vote.

Merry Christmas, JoAnna!

Please use the holiday to read and acquaint yourself with the facts so we can have an honest discussion in the new year.

Jody:

Never disappointed. Two questions. Do you take a tranquilizer before or after you write your recap? When did you stop saying, "It just can't get any crazier."?

Democratic Presidents are not there to broker Republican/Republican purported differences.

Surely GOP/Koch is capable of doing that - without pointing fingers at the adults?

Hey Sniff

Have you read the WSJ? The deal is over. The Senate is not conferencing; the Journal has already conceded that the Boner has given President Obama the 2012 re-election.

So "Bah, humbug" to you Grinch. really, I'm being nice to your acerbic mouth. I could have subsitued the "G" with a "B"

fielden: Merry Christmas, JoAnna!

Please use the holiday to read and acquaint yourself with the facts so we can have an honest discussion in the new year

Merry Christmas to you too fielden. And speaking of honest, still waiting for you to list all those GOP amendments you claimed existed on the Presidents FY2012 that caused it to fail by a 97-0 vote the Senate. Shall we start the new year with that honesty from you?

Beverly in Chicago: So "Bah, humbug" to you Grinch. really, I'm being nice to your acerbic mouth. I could have subsitued the "G" with a "B".

Beverly, Merry Christmas to you and your family. I pray you have a blessed holiday season.

Here's another one to add to Backhouse's House GOP vote on denying food stamps to the rich.

While the House GOPTPers could not bring themselves to work on legislation for extending the tax cuts and unemployment benefits for millions of Americans, Boehner stood before the House to debate where to place a bust of Winston Churchill because they feel President Obama slighted Churchill when he returned the bust the UK loaned temporarily to President George W. Bush. You just can't make this crazy stuff up.

That last lilne is for you, David. No, didn't take a tranquilizer but do find it necessary to have a glass of wine or a gin and tonic every now and then as I finalize and edit it!

CJ: Well, Joanna, maybe the House should have actually VOTED on the bill in front of them instead of hiding behind smarmy little procedural ploys. THEN both houses would have passed bills. No, this is all on Boehner and the refusal to even call the vote.

The House, as is the Senate, is under no obligation to vote on each others bills. And both houses do have passed bills. We're still waiting for Sen Reid and Minority Leader Pelosi to appoint their conferees to have the differences worked out by a House/Senate conference committee.

Jody wrote "The total combined populations of Greece, the United Kingdom, France and Switzerland equals the number of poor in the United States."

This is a fairly meaningless stat to me. Those countries are much smaller than the US, and in the US we don't include government assistance when calculating poverty levels (whereas most European countries do).

Jody yes,

All Presidents get to decide how they want to decorate the Oval Office.

Not sure if I'd want Winston's mug up on the wall either.

Ron, there was no calculation of how Europe determines their povery levels in this "stat". The point is that the total population of those countries combined equals the number of poor in this country. It doesn't matter that those countries are small or large, the point is to recognize the visual concept if ALL the US's poor were living in one place the size of those countries because the population would be the same.

Jody, Iowa: Ron, there was no calculation of how Europe determines their povery levels in this "stat". The point is that the total population of those countries combined equals the number of poor in this country.

Certainly a point Obama will bring up as a "success" to his administration.

Or will he just blame someone else instead? (Like we don't already know the answer).

Backhouse, yes, they do. In addition, the bust Bush had of Churchill was only on loan from the UK but the GOPers don't let that fact interfere with their snit.

Joanna all this back and forth is pointless, the dam bill passes 89-10. which means that all were on board for this, republicans and Democrats.

John Bohner just pissed off his brothers in the senate(republicans) especially Scott brown when is in a tight race for his seat. John why you make Scott look bad!!!!!!

so find something else to cry about and blame Obama on, I'm sure you can FIND something else.

Jody, What could possibly be more important ???

160 million Americans losing $40 per week, Unemployment benefits for out-of-work families over Christmas....OR the dead Churchill's mug on the wall?

Mmm, let's see.....

Maybe Boehner and The-Do-Nothing-Just-Hurt-Everyone-Else-As-Much-As Possible/We-Don't-Care-for-Anyone-But-Koch Party:

Can make it as TERRIBLE a Christmas for those people as possible? That is what they are GOOD AT.

Disgusting.

Well jody, I wonder what those population centers (with coal fired power plants) will say if they lose power?

In 2007 Alliance energy wanted to rebuild their marshalltown, iowa facility into a state of the art facility meeting current standards to supply regional power for more iowans. The environmentalists caused alliance to abandon the project. Seems that <the protesters> they were more interested in having the plants inefficiences carry on. I hope those protesting modernization like their higher utility bills.

Nice analogy with the poker chips, bet obama really appreciates it as he tells voters that a minority will be the ones paying for his policies. You know, chips=votes. I wonder how obamas specious arguments will play out when the majority realize that rhetoric isn't policy.

Jody...Put the glue down..It's making you delusional.

Jody,

I don't see how it's relevant to say the number of poor in the US equals the number of people in X countries. It makes for a great sound bite, but what is the point you are trying to make?

As an example, I could say the number of poor in California equal the population of a dozen other states combined - but does that stat actual mean anything? California has a much larger population than most states, so the reality could be that the percent of poor people in California is less than the other states. This is why I think your statement is meaningless and potentially very misleading.

This is also why I mentioned how poverty rates are calculated. If we look at stated poverty levels across countries, combined with other stats such as how the calculations are done and disposable income, then we can start to make valid comparisons. Otherwise we are just left stating largely partisan dogma that leaves little room for productive debate and actually solving problems.

Please Mr President don't cave to the House?

Seriously?

The House wants a full year extension of the payroll tax cut (which is an idiotic tax break, but that is a different post) and liberals think this is wrong? The Republicans want a pipeline that will create jobs, and permanent jobs at refineries in America rather than China, and this is somehow wrong?

It's like the lunatic fringe cannot even hear how out of touch they really are. The Republicans agree with Obama, and Obama complains like a little spoiled kid. How pathetic.

Wrong.

Since September, the President has been pushing for an ONE YEAR EXTENSION of the middle-class payroll tax cut.

President Obama went around the country telling us about the provisions in the AJA ---that GOP voted against 3 times and wouldn't allow to come up for debate. The voted against 2 million jobs.

The House just blocked legislation that got an 89-10 vote in the Senate for a 2-month Bill stop-gap on the payroll tax cut.

A year-long agreement can be negotiated when Congress returns in January. No time now. Out of time.

Boehner wouldn't let the 2-month agreement come up in the House, BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID IT WOULD PASS.

Then Boehner sent the House home for the holidays. But he can still pass the 2-month deal in the House.

The President is working for the American people. Boehner can handle this HIMSELF and do his job.

Now that Boehner failed to act on a DONE DEAL, it is Boehner who is whining.

Boehner IS USELESS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Question for all of you?

PBO and the dems passed a one year payroll deduction correct? (lame duck congress)

If they wanted if for more than one f'n year why didn't they just pass it forever? FYI these weren't paid for, sounds like the Bush tax cuts you all bitch about, but don't give the cut you received back to the Government. Also the Dems passed pay go, and in this and every other case didn't follow though with it.

Everybody has known for a year that this was coming to an end, so instead of blaming the people that think different than you, how about putting some of the blame on the party that passed this temporary bill? By definition something temporary has to end!

Answer:

Negotiating in the Lame Duck last Christmas was HELL.

In order to keep the middle class tax cut for one year and unemployment insurance for one year:

GOP/Koch insisted on the Bush TAX cuts being extended for 2 years.

It was the first of three GOP hostage takings last year, with GOP/Koch pushing for concessions they wouldn't get under normal conditions.

If Dems could have made it permanent as you say, or even for 2 years (GOP/Koch got TWO years on the Bush tax cuts), they would have.

Yay Jody, Iowa! You Go!!!

You are more in touch and in tune with what is happening than anyone. You have my vote. When are you running?

<JoAnnaSmith1

sw-philly: Joanna not every bill is worked out in conference,some are just voted on...Especialy when they are the right thing to do and they help almost everyone.

So philly, are you for a 2 month extension of the payroll tax holiday, or a 12 month extension? Which bill helps people more? And do you think President Obama will veto the 12 month extension if it gets to his desk?>

Are you trying to look stupid on purpose? The two week extension was agreed on in the senate and passed by 89 votes to allow extra time to do the full one year package. Get your head out of your a$$ and get your facts straight rather than using Faux/GOP/Koch Bros talking points.

Negotiating in the Lame Duck last Christmas was HELL.

Why? because you had the house, the senate and the president?

The dems could have passed anything they wanted without a single Repub even showing up to vote no.

GOP/Koch insisted on the Bush TAX cuts being extended for 2 years.

Didn't PBO say in a speech to the nation now is not the time to raise taxes? Are you trying to say he lied to the nation?

It was the first of three GOP hostage takings last year, with GOP/Koch pushing for concessions they wouldn't get under normal conditions.

I love how the people with the control can be taken hostage.

If Dems could have made it permanent as you say, or even for 2 years (GOP/Koch got TWO years on the Bush tax cuts), they would have.

What you are really saying is, unless the Dems were allowed to raise the taxes on the so called rich, they were going to raise the taxes on everybody?

Isn't there always a give and take? what the dems wanted in the case was a take, take.

(FYI - I am not saying the Repubs are correct because in most cases they are not, what I am saying is just about everybody commenting on this thread is a f'n hypocrite)

bobbski: The two week extension was agreed on in the senate and passed by 89 votes to allow extra time to do the full one year package.

It's two months bob. And the House has already managed to get the one year bill passed. Why doesn't the Senate vote on that one?

bobbski:Are you trying to look stupid on purpose?

It appears you're the stupid bob.

Ron and the others who can't seem to understand the point of my first paragraph in my post. IT'S THE NUMBER OF POOR PEOPLE WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!! Geez, how hard is it to think about the fact that we have as many POOR people in this country as the total population of four European countries.

Now, I know this is be of good cheer day on FR but you must be conservative because what we hear from conservative legislators is the same disregard for and disbelief that poor people exist in this country; your post reflects that same tendency to dismiss the concept of the huge number of poor Americans as irrelevant and pointless and in my view, that's because you choose to ignore the truth and instead question the point of the comment.

So Jody, you point is we have lots of poor people.

So if we take them poor people and make them completely reliant on the Government they somehow are not going to be poor?

How about the fact that our poor are considered the top 1% in the world?

How has taking money from one group of people and giving it to another helped the poor in the last 40 years or so? I'll answer, it hasn't we have the same amount of poor people.

So the only solution I can imagine you want is to take everybody' money and spread it out evenly among everybody?

Nothing wrong with change matt. To bad that obama hasn't effected an economic change yet, and it will be our state of economy that will determine if he is re-elected

"your"? Did you mean "you're?"

Wait, what? A Democrat complaining about taxes getting raised? That's all I've heard from your party for years -- higher taxes instead of reduced spending. Now it's suddenly a problem?

<newdayDAWNING...RETURNED "your"? Did you mean "you're?">

He doesn't know the difference and calls others stupid.

Not a problem for me. I am hoping the dems have a nice Christmas and YOUR taxes go up! It's a hit i'm willing to take. Call it my Christmas present to the teatards! lol

Newday,

Bada bing, bada boom!

Indeed, thetotas: hope things are well with you!

Merry Christmas nojo. I hope you have a joyous season.

To Feisty whose rapier wit left me with no choice but to join FR, a haiku:

her red hair hidden

below harrowed horizons.

hunter, heed her heart.

To Mrs. and Mr. phinephancy, may you stand on that beach at 103 and sing:

how the heart sings

like spring's yearning
and summer's greening.
like fall's ripening
and winter's dreaming
of spring's recurring.

To JoJo and her far too long dormant socialist heart:

but for a smile wrapped in a kiss,

i would collect the western stars

that fall in eastern streams

and send a willow wind

to stir your dreams.

To the guys be you on left or on right:

suck wind! I’ll be writing no pretty words to you, and some advice from Joan Rivers: “the one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband.”

To those who rant about Marxists:

take heart, they are all dead.

To one and all:

Merry whatever for whatever you are. Be plentiful in the love you give and receive.

p.s. To the aliens:

bugger off, we have yet to finish off killing each other

nojo, thank you for your daily critique of the media and FR topics. As David Walker said, it is all about perspective.

My gift to you and Joe in albany and all the 1% supporters is from the Carlson School of Management at the U of Mn.

Brought to you by a 99% flash mob:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH8FvERQHtM

to all FR posters today:

Merry Christmas Nollaig Shona Glaedelig jul Feliz Navidad

**stands and applauds**

Bravo, ideology! I just don't think there is much left to be said! This rocks my world!

Wonderful, ideology. And thank you.

So, first of all, how about an explanation of how House republicans "allowed" the Senate to adjourn.

Only a great fool would believe that Mitch McConnell would strike a deal on the payroll tax cut with out consulting with John Boehner and Eric Cantor. McConnell know the deal needs to be passed by the House and that there is no deal if Boehner and Cantor don't approve. There was a deal complete with a massive high-five as McConnell left the negotiating table.

Believing they had a deal, the Senate voted, approved the measure and then skipped town for the holidays (they have pro forma sessions which really do nothing).

Now, if there was no deal with the House, shouldn't you make that abundantly clear before the senators leave town? I would think so but apparently Boehner and Cantor don't. They waited until after everyone left to set off their pipe bomb.

That is what is meant by "allowed" the Senate to adjourn...they waited until after the senators left to announce their opposition.

Second- Biden? Vice president? Telling Newsweek/Daily Beast that the "Taliban is not our enemy"? No story? Not a word?

It's the economy, stupid!!! The big story yesterday is the tax cut extension shenanigans and you want to talk about a Joe Biden one-liner? You're right that someone needs to get their priorities straight but I don't think the editors here are the ones with the problem.

(sigh) nojo didn't wish anyone a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday or anything. :(

Sorry, phine, your expectations are too high, but Merry Christmas to you!

Thanks for reminding me Phine....

Merry Christmas to all.....................

Thanks newday. Sending you lots of {{{HUGS}}}} and holiday cheer. (The cheer is best in a glass, over ice!)

Absolutely, Phine! Can't wait to hear about the cats and the copter.

Well, that explains a lot- you drink laundry detergent? Geez.

And, it isn't Christmas. Or New Year's Day. Or Fourth of July.

And the misspelled name/alter ego? Isn't fooling anybody.

Happy Holidays to all . Let us hope we can continue this level of respect and politeness for one and another more than just than this one day. It is amazing what you can accomplish when you can listen to each other and discuss your differences respectfully rather than call names.

Is it me, or does it seem that as the posts becomes more positive, no jo becomes more angry?

Really no jo, you can do it, "happy holidays to all". Easy peasy.

Ideology - Hey, not just a haiku, but a very alliterative one - I'm impressed!

Okay, here's one for you:

Ideology....

Can certainly spoil the view

Let's not let it. Peace.

And here's one for KSW62118:

KSW.....

Keep Saying What you just did.

Peace, goodwill to you!

And finally, one for NoJoe:

She can find the cloud

In any silver lining.

Goodwill to you too.

I think the true meaning of Christmas has passed by no jo. Even if she hates it I hope she has a happy holiday.

two no's, a joe, a bo, and an nj:

May God bless your shriveled black heart...

Happy Kwaanza!

Northstar DFL:

Thank you for putting up that URL. I had meant to include it in my first post and I forgot.

When you see things like that it seems inconceivable that we would deny health care to the poor. That we would ask why people who have no money don't pay taxes. That we would disrespect a G.I. for his or her sexual orientation and ignore the fact that they are defending us. That we would allow the wealthy to hoard another hundred dollar bill, while a widow freezes in the winter - and YES, I said, "ALLOW".

Thanks again.

What is all this Christmas cheer about? Not that I am against it, but this is about politics, not who can spread the most holiday cheer, really.

What a load of hooey from Todd et al. It's amazing so many take opinion and innuendo as fact. How can so many be so foolish? Barrack needs to change the end of his speeches to God help America.

No jo, interesting comments for thought, might I add that the NYT's reported today that our military is already looking beyond 2014 for maintaining a US military presence in Afganistan. I wonder how the CinC obama will spin this to the voters?

In other news over the past few days it seems that the saudis and other mideast arab nations are looking at ways to now minimize irans possable attempts to destabalize the area. Could it be that obama is following what bush and coalition forces did in 2002/2003. Remaing in afganistan beyond 2014 certainly seems to indicate this.

@Northstar DFL....in regards to the video.

I've watched too much TV, commercials, and movies to believe this was a spontaneous event. The lighting, the use of multiple cameras, the editing, the cinematography, etc...it is better than most live events and a lot of back lot shots. A lot of money went into the production of that video. That's my only qualm with the video is that it was a so called flashmob. No, I disagree. I'm not suggesting they were paid, probably volunteered, but I wouldn't be surprised if I found out most of the people in those shots were actors, or most of it was filmed on a green screen or they asked permission beforehand.

Ruckus,

the video was indeed professionally produced, with professional camera and audio. The singers and musician were from the U of MN Dept of Music. It was their surprise gift to the Carlson School of Business. The folks walking thru the video were students. My friend's daughter is a student there. She was in the building when this happened and everyone was pleasantly surprised. Had a smile on her face all day.

Ruckus, we call this type of gesture Minnesota Nice

If people can come together in a gesture of goodwill or random acts of kindness then everyone benefits.

Merry Christmas, Ruckus

Perhaps you need a broader perspective. American drunk drivers kill far more Americans than the Taliban. You might be living next door to one of those American drunk drivers. Which is the more immediate threat? Which one is more dangerous?

Perspective no joe, perspective.

You're right David perspective. Defend the indefensible.

I don't remember drunk drivers harboring the organization that flew the planes into the trade center.

I always though you were a bit of dick with your pontifications but now you've proved it.

Drunk Drivers....what a joke you are

Well if the Taliban is our enemy we will never defeat them unless we exterminate every human over there because that is their way of life....Of course you righties have no problem exterminating an entire population of people women,children and all.....To me that is just cruel...I know they harbored our enemy but I think they see the error in their ways now...And by the way that was the taliban leaders not the people who were killed for what their leaders did....

Ah, Alan, don't bother. If Obama strangled a puppy, he and his cohort would find a way to defend him.

By the way, this is what "not our enemies" have been up to

http://icasualties.org/oef/ByMonth.aspx

Those are the deaths- there are thousands of non-fatal casualties inflicted on our troops by our "friends", the Taliban.

It's all good for the Libs r Us gang. See, if it emanates from the mouths of Biden or their idol, Obama, it must be right and true.

Well if the Taliban is our enemy we will never defeat them unless we exterminate every human over there because that is their way of life....Of course you righties have no problem exterminating an entire population of people women,children and all.....To me that is just cruel...I know they harbored our enemy but I think they see the error in their ways now...And by the way that was the taliban leaders not the people who were killed for what their leaders did....

Try reading a history of the world. As far as I remember we managed to defeat the Germans and Japanese (the enemy as they were called) without exterminating their population. So, you also make a completely facile argument.

Also, your facts are incorrect as the Taliban are the largest minority of a tribal system in Afghanistan, so why would we need exterminate every human being to kill all the Taliban?

Hyperbole combined with stupidly to defend an off the cuff statement that I would bet the VP would walk back.

Don't call me stupid because I have a different opinion than you......... I didn't mean just the Taliban... I meant the taliban way is the way of life there, you know, Islam to the extreme...I am not afraid of them maybe you are ?

Merry Christmas

Wishing the best to you and your family sw philly.

Same to you Newday and everyone else on here....

Merry Christmas

Right, sw Philly- because, after all, Nazi-ism was not the "way of life" in Germany before we won the war.

And, Alan, I don't think Biden misspoke- I think he is out there sending up trial balloons, because the fact of the matter is the Obama administration is negotiating with the Taliban. When things like this actually get reported, it can be passed off as "Biden's bloopers", and Obama skates free.

Of course, most often, the media helpfully ignores what might no redound to their idol's credit. They get rewarded with coffee! With Obama! In the White House!

And collect their new talking points. They aren't journalists- they are paid propagandists.

sw philly -

Hello from an old sw philly girl herself till I was 7 or so - Carroll Street between Elmwood and Buist, just down from the old GE plant where my Dad worked for many years. My Nan was from The Meadows (sorry, I mean "the Meddas"). I miss taking the old 36 trolley downtown to see the light show at Wanamaker's with her. Have a very Merry Christmas (just don't ask me to say "Go, Eagles!)

David is beyond a dick. He tries to think he rises above with some intellectual BS as if he is providing the real facts and truth. However, every time he is confronted with his embellisments, mistruths, lies etc, his fangs come out and he personally attacks as his method of hiding from the truth. He got so mad once that he tried to equate me to the Sandusky molestation making light of what went on which is when I saw his true colors. The unfortunate part is that he always defends the indefensible no different than Fiesty, Backhouse. Because of their limited critical thinking skills and intellect, they are more laughable, David tries to hide his defense as if he is reasonable and more thoughtful but if you notice the conclusion is always the same.

Alan, NJ:

You write:

"You're right David perspective. Defend the indefensible.

I don't remember drunk drivers harboring the organization that flew the planes into the trade center.

I always though you were a bit of dick with your pontifications but now you've proved it.

Drunk Drivers....what a joke you are"

Yet, it is quite clear you search out my posts.

Why do you do that?

swPhilly: Islam to the extreme

Similar to the Christianity to the extreme we get in this country, don't you think?!

Merry Christmas to all! You too, Alan and NoJo...

And, Alan, I don't think Biden misspoke- I think he is out there sending up trial balloons, because the fact of the matter is the Obama administration is negotiating with the Taliban.

Which is not the worst thing in the world. I want the hell out of there and at the end of the day the Taliban will probably be part of an agreement.

@sw philly Didn't call you stupid, called your opinion stupid.

Of course you righties have no problem exterminating an entire population of people women,children and all

If you don't think the above opinion is stupid then I can't help you. For all I know you're a genius, and no

I meant the taliban way is the way of life there, you know, Islam to the extreme...I am not afraid of them maybe you are ?

I'm not afraid of Islam. However, I will treat Islamic countries with equal respect when they allow the same freedoms to non-Islamic citizens as we do to all our citizens (Islamic or otherwise).

Yet, it is quite clear you search out my posts.

Why do you do that?

Because I actually like to read and think about opinions other than my own. That's how I learn. I don't need to put anybody on ignore.

Similar to the Christianity to the extreme we get in this country, don't you think?!

No. See my comment about Islamic countries. I am an Atheist and I've never felt pressured by Christians, at least in this part of the country. I think the ACLU does a reasonable job enforcing the separation of church and state. Do you have a particular example in mind?

Kirk is wishing you a very happy holiday, David, Feisty and Backhouse. It just came out in right wing speak. I have the dictionary and can interpret for him.

Alan, I want out of there, too- but how, exactly, can there be any agreement with a group like that? Would we have negotiated with the Nazis? Of course not.

Obama has mishandled Afghanistan from the first day of his presidency. The war was winding down, despite not having caught bin Laden at Tora Bora, and we had driven al Queda from the country.

Obama then decided that Karzai, because he was a Bush ally, had to go. We undermined his leadership, and gave the Taliban an opening. The war has escalated- and gone downhill- since then. Please spare me the arguments about Karzai's "corruption". For Obama, with his dollars to donors program, to be talking about corruption is like a thief lecturing others about honesty.

The fact of the matter is that you do not undercut your allies. Period. Had he simply followed the script laid out by his many predecessors, the war would already be over. Unfortunately, Obama is a legend in his own mind, and thus, has nothing to learn from anyone, about anything.

I'm not afraid of Islam. However, I will treat Islamic countries with respect when they allow the same freedoms to non-Islamic citizens as we do to all our citizens (Islamic or otherwise).

Then you will never respect them, inclusion is not part of their way of life. Of course they, like many of us, could give a squat if someone with your nasty temperament respects them or not. Your posts say that you are just one more right winger who can't get that not everyone is going to see it your way, that not everyone is going to live your way, and you know what, the beauty of freedom is that no one has to care that you chose to live your life with such a narrow mind and selfish worldview.

David must have really ruffled Kirk for him to lead with name calling on the 'day of peace'. Happy Holidays to all!

Then you will never respect them, inclusion is not part of their way of life.

Nor yours by the sound of it. Do you ever read what you write? If you did you would realize that you are describing yourself.

The fact of the matter is that you do not undercut your allies. Period. Had he simply followed the script laid out by his many predecessors, the war would already be over. Unfortunately, Obama is a legend in his own mind, and thus, has nothing to learn from anyone, about anything.

The only mind legend I see around here is you. No facts, no solutions, made up lies as you go along. All the signs of a major case of narcism.

Karzai is not and has never been an ally. He is a propped up (by Bush) figurehead with little support in his own country who had been in the thick of it with the Pakistanis who are the real enemy in this part of the world. They harbored BinLaden, they arm the Taliban, they subvert peace.

If there was any room in that noggin of yours for anything but hate and ideology you wouldn't be so blind to fact. Keep up your good works in 2012. Folks like you go along way to ensure four more years of Obama. No one in their right mind could side with all of that hate.

Nor yours by the sound of it. Do you ever read what you write? If you did you would realize that you are describing yourself.

My day is made. A personal attack from Alan, Nut Job. Classic.

@Amused

Now this is a personal attack.

Get help! You need a mental health professional to help you with your delusions and paranoia.

People, this is BE NICE day! Be nice. I hate to have to give time out on be nice day. ; )

@NDD

Seasons Greetings. Have a great day, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Same to you and your family, Alan!

Obama has mishandled Afghanistan from the first day of his presidency. The war was winding down, despite not having caught bin Laden at Tora Bora, and we had driven al Queda from the country.

Let's ask bin Laden how he thinks the war is going. Oh wait...

Joanne in PA------That is awseome that you lived in SW....I too grew up in site of GE....I lived on Grays ave then...I looked out at GE from my middle and high school window Bartram and Tilden....I went to St Barnabas before we gave up on the catholic ED due to Reagan and his trickle down economics...There were alot of layoffs and the family had to all stick together so we didn't lose our homes...Then we had the Clinton years and everybody was working OT again then came Bush with the pay cuts layoffs loss of benifits and no more OT .....Well things are just getting back on track and these looney tunes wanna vote in another Republican,Fat chance we aren't falling for it again...I would be suprised if the south even goes red in this coming election considering all of the buyers remorse going on with the (R) goveners and state houses trying to outlaw minority voting,unions and birth control......

Maybe they were there for this

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/potus-has-coffee-with-progressive-media-stars/

Ah, the professional journalists! Armed with their White House talking points!

Merry Christmas, "no joe"...my gift to you is from "Straight No Chaser"...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fe11OlMiz8&ob=av2e

How about this "straight"- fact

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/200309-payroll-processors-lobby-against-short-term-tax-cut

So, let's see- it is almost impossible to implement. It will cost businesses more than it is worth to employees.

But, it's still a good idea, right? I mean, if Obama is for it, it must be the greatest thing since the Big Mac, right?

Oh, and remember- the Taliban are our allies. We have always been allied with the Taliban.

Really, no jo: you can do it, it isn't that hard: let me help you:

I wish all who post on FR the most happy of holiday seasons. Especially, phine, who came up with this fine idea, and my friend Feisty, who I am really not mad at.

There. All done. You can cut and paste it so you don't have to go to the work of typing!

Happy Christmas no jo, my gift to you!

Wow, NoJo, it's Christmas! Let it go!

I'll second Newday, you can do it. It's easy. Really.

Merry Christmas!

newday,

You are worth your weight in gold - times 10!!!!!

Wow. It's Christmas? Really?

My calendar must be off. It says it's December 21. Last time I checked, Chriatmas was the 25th.

nojo,

Everyone has tried to be nice to you today. Since FR won't be here on the 25th, and since the "spirit" of Christmas is supposed to a thing to carry with you at all times, can you not, open your heart at all and wish those who you not only agree with but disagree with a happy holiday or merry Christmas? If you cannot, while I really do hope you have a happy holiday season, I will also be feeling extremely sorry for you.

darn that iPad,...Merry Christmas and may G-d Bless us, everyone!

Im always amused when some member of the Libs R Us gang attempt to dictate what people can and can't post. Normally, it occurs when something that might look bad for their idol happens.

Well, folks, it's a shame for you, but I happen to ignore your dictates. I commenced from fifth grade long ago- literally and figuratively; therefore, I will extend my season's greetings when I deem it appropriate- not before.

What was it that Dr. Suess said? Something about the Grinch's heart was just too small?

Oh well, can't help everyone.

Sorry, no jo, we tried.

There you have it folks!

The Grinch really does have battery acid running through her veins!

People have continually reached out to her & all she did was prove she's incapable of being pleasant for even an hour or so...

I really do feel sorry for someone who carries all that hatred in her black heart!

@phinephancy - I appreciate your effort, especially when it proved what I have believed all along!

Da Noid -

I love Straight No Chaser, but this one's still my favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E-47VmFopE&feature=related

Meanwhile...."therefore, I will extend my season's greetings when I deem it appropriate- not before."

Merry Christmas anyway, NoJoe. Peace and goodwill are always appropriate in my little world.

JoAnne: a very happy Christmas to one of my favorite FR friends.

Hello No Jo - I haven't spoken to you in a while. This extension is certainly a conundrum, (self plugging here) the FR guys actually tried to answer my question about who gains if the pay roll cuts expire this in the Boiler Room. I say let it expire.

I agree with you on this partially, it is going to be hard to do a 2 month extension and pay roll processors will have fits. Case in point this email I received below. I'm willling to give up my $80 or so a month to help shore up Social Security the way it was intended.

No Jo, I understand it is the 21st. However, I will not be around for the 25th so Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays No Jo. Blessings to your family and your grand daughter.

To everyone else happy holidays.

Let us remember that we should try to be civil to each other every day not only around Christmas. On a side note I love the Grinch who stole Christmas, the cartoon not the Jim Carrey disaster. No one in this thread is the Grinch by the way

___________________

Please be aware that a change in federal law requires the XXXXXXXX to deduct more federal taxes from employee paychecks this month. As a result, your take-home pay on January 2 will be approximately $80 lower than usual.

We apologize for the late notice of this change. Congress has been debating a bill that would extend a 2 percent reduction in Social Security taxes, but that bill has not passed. That means that the payroll tax cut will expire on Dec. 31, and the amount employees pay in Social Security taxes will go from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent. You will notice this change in the “Fed OASDI/EE” line of your earnings statement.

If Congress extends the 2 percent reduction in taxes before the end of the year or makes the change retroactively, we will make an adjustment to your pay on your next scheduled pay date.

___________________________

@Feisty,

I know. I should have listened to you. But, gotta admit, gave it old college try!

two no's, a joe, a bo, and an nj:

I hope you asked Santa to slip you a little somethin' somethin' under the tree this year...seems you need a bit of holiday stress relief...

Happy Hanukkah!

Newday - And a very Merry Christmas to you and all your cherubs - and of course all of the critters too. Don't forget to send me any of your excess snow this year!

Yellowdog - Congrats on having your question chosen for the Boiler Room - I think a little self-plugging is certainly called for. I don't know that anyone gains from this tax-cut extension mess. Sadly, most Americans are too uninformed to follow the intricacies of the game as it's being played and right now they're too wrapped up in the holidays to be paying much attention anyway. I think in the end, most will only see or hear enough to reinforce their belief that Washington is broken and beyond repair and will either go the "throw all the bums out" route (regardless of who the next "bums" might be") or they'll become even more disinterested in taking part in the process and not vote at all. Either way, nobody really wins, however much they try to spin that they did.

P.S. - Sorry, but I hate the original Grinch, the Carrey one, and especially the inflatable one on my neighbor's front lawn. But Merry Christmas to you and yours all the same!

JOanne in Pa -----Don't you miss SW....I too grew up in view of GE on grays ave

JoAnne in PA - Hope all is well. On a lighter note, my take on the Grinch.

Some love the Grinch others hate him.

The cartoon Grinch to me was a story of a misunderstood curmudgeon who only wanted peace and quiet on Christmas. He saw the season as celebrated by the whoville population as pure commercialization.

But....

During the course of his dastardly actions, he sees that the whoville people despite their loss, due to his theivery, still share their enjoyment amongst themselves and their happiness with the arrival of Christmas. Happiness all without the gifts. The scene where the Grinch realizes that Christmas is more than gifts and his heart grows and he sees the light is very poignant.

Don't worry I'm kinda partial to a Charlie Brown Christmas too.

I LOVE Charlie Brown's Christmas! JoAnn, would like to oblige you with snow. There IS none, had temps in the high 40's, which is a heat wave here. We are still riding out!

Wow, the nicer folks are to NoJo the angrier she gets. I vote everyone remain being nice to her all year long. Her head will literally explode in a matter of days.

I have to admit, it's amusing for me to watch her twisting off as iff she's just come from an afternoon of electro-shock therapy. LOL

Yellowdog - I'm hanging in - thanks for asking. Actually, I'm just not much of a Dr. Seuss fan at all - the faces always creeped me out for some reason - so much so that I couldn't get past them to the words or the stories, so I appreciate your re-cap. My favorite Christmas show, though, has always been an old made-for-tv movie called "The Gathering" with Ed Asner as another curmudgeon who re-unites with his estranged family one last time when he learns he's dying of a brain tumor. I cry every time!

sw philly - I went to Patterson Elementary and would've gone to Tilden and Bartram if we hadn't moved when we did. It was a whole different world then, when Mom could send 5 or 6-year-old me down to the corner store alone for a loaf of bread or to the shoemaker on Buist Ave to get my Dad's dress shoes re-heeled and shined. On the way back, I always knew our house at Christmas even in the dark because we had these three blinking red bell lights in the front window. Took me over 30 years, but I finally found a new set of them in a catalog a few years back and I think of the old neighborhood every time I turn them on. Nice chatting with you today!

Gee, apparently I missed the liberal dictate that today we must all post our various holiday greetings. Maybe No Joe confused the concept of a "good cheer" day (being nice to one another) with a requirement to wish Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or ???

Phine,

Good Morning.

Attention all husbands, whether liberals or conservatives, you have four days left for that gift to your wife.

Hint: DO NOT GET HER ANYTHING WITH A PLUG!

She does not want the latest meat slicer, vaccum cleaner, or even large flat screen tv.

Go directly to Victoria Secret, Godiva, and the jewelry store of your choice. There will be wonderful sales clerks who will take you by the hand,steer you to the perfect gift for your wife. They will even gift wrap your thoughtful gifts.

Hint #2: Shop today , do not wait until Saturday.

On the nightwear side - NEVER and I mean NEVER get the lady anything in flannel! She may be warm (and hot around the collar), but you will be FREEZING!!!! And, more than likely, sleeping on the couch!

We can have good conversations and disagree but do it without the name calling.

Phinephancy - I'll join with you today and every day to participate in your truce. However, I will promise you one thing, that I will not always agree with you or always agree with anyone on here. I will talk to anyone not only those on the left to discuss ideas. That is the nature of our democracy, the nature of a true free thinker. Though I might be a liberal I will not overlook when my side or my side's elected officials go against what I believe is right.

A toast to you, to life, liberty and pursuit of happines in this holiday season - Peace on Earth

Life is Good

Northstar. I am the aberration. I love getting things with plugs. My hubby knows that, and gave me one of my favorite gifts, a monster Kitchen Aid mixer, and I adore the thing. Great for making bread, which is his reward. But, my favorite gift from him was an Antique Mantel Clock that I had seen in my favorite clock store. I showed restraint and walked away from it, he went back and got it. I adore old clocks and the house is full of them. My Sundays are spent winding them, and it is so much fun.

His favorite gift from me was a German Shepherd pup. His best bud for many years.

phine----thanks for bringing holiday cheer and civility to FR!

Best holiday wishes to you & Mr. Phine as well as the senior crew.

A favorite holiday gift from my husband was a festive Steelers Santa hat. For those not fortunate enough to be Steelers fans, holiday wear of your favorite pro or college team is a good gift choice.

Guys, if you and your buddy have wives who are friends get them a top to bottom all day pass at the best spa in town.

Love the spa day idea!