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Subscribe to RSSHouse Republicans find themselves in a corner on the payroll tax cut… And Boehner finds himself on an island… New national WaPo/ABC poll shows Gingrich and Romney all tied up (but how much stock should we put in national polls at this stage?)… Gingrich continues to explain Freddie Mac… A family affair: Gingrich daughter stumps for Newt in SC… Should the Paul newsletters get the same kind of scrutiny as that Perry rock?... And it’s officially two weeks out until the Iowa caucuses.
*** Cornered: To understand how House Republicans have backed themselves into a corner on extending the payroll tax cut, two Senate Republicans running in some of the most competitive contests next year are distancing themselves from the House GOP. “The House Republicans’ plan to scuttle the deal to help middle-class families is irresponsible and wrong,” said Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA), who most likely will run against Democrat Elizabeth Warren in 2012. “The refusal to compromise now threatens to increase taxes on hard-working Americans and stop unemployment benefits for those out of work.” And Sen. Dean Heller (R-NV), who will run against Democratic Rep. Shelley Berkley, added: “What is playing out in Washington, D.C., this week is about political leverage, not about what’s good for the American people. Congress can work out a solution without stopping the payroll tax-cut extension for the middle class.” Bottom line: You know where the politics on this issue are when Brown and Heller are for/against something. Two other veteran senators, Richard Lugar and Olympia Snowe, also both up for re-election in states carried by President Obama in ‘08, have joined the chorus of Republicans asking the House GOP to simply vote out the Senate bill.
*** No up-or-down vote: What’s more, House Republicans today WILL NOT allow an up-or-down vote on the Senate bill that extends the tax cut for two months, NBC’s Frank Thorp and Luke Russert report. Instead, the New York Times says, they “will implement a procedural maneuver in which they will ‘reject’ the Senate bill while requesting to go to conference with members of that chamber in a single measure, protecting House members from having to actually vote against extending a payroll tax cut. During the conference meeting among Republican members, some members expressed concern about effectively voting for a tax increase on the eve of an election year, said some who attended.” How many times did House Republicans complain about procedural moves like this when they were in the minority? This move suggest three things: 1) They might lose the vote; 2) they don’t want to vote for something that could be spun into being a tax increase; and 3) they don’t want to have to whip against a tax cut.
*** Boehner on an island: House Republicans aren’t the only ones who have put themselves into a corner; so has House Speaker John Boehner. How did he so badly misread his House GOP conference on this measure? We are pretty confident that there’s no way Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell would have left Boehner high and dry on this payroll tax cut -- and given that high five -- if it was undesirable to Boehner. Boehner’s speakership could be badly damaged from this episode. Is he leading or simply trying to stay in front of the crowd?
The Congressional showdown over extending the payroll tax cut, which is set to expire at the end of the year, has revealed infighting between Republicans on Capitol Hill. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.
*** All tied up? Turning to the GOP presidential contest, a new national Washington Post/ABC poll finds Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney tied at 30% among Republican voters and GOP-leaning independents. And this survey comes a day after a CNN poll showed Gingrich and Romney tied at 28%. But at this stage of the GOP race -- with two weeks until Iowa and three weeks until New Hampshire -- national polling is usually a LAGGING indicator. After all, at this point four years ago, our national NBC/WSJ poll showed Hillary Clinton with a 22-point lead over Barack Obama, 45%-23% (and he was just weeks away from winning Iowa). And it showed Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney tied at 20%, with Mike Huckabee (the eventual Iowa caucus winner) at 17%, and John McCain (the eventual GOP nominee) at 14%. Whoever wins Iowa and New Hampshire will change the national polls…
*** Explaining Freddie Mac: Meanwhile, Gingrich is still explaining his work for Freddie Mac. And, in politics, if you’re explaining (and still explaining after six weeks), you aren’t winning. “Freddie Mac hired Gingrich Group, which is a firm which had offices in three cities,” Gingrich said yesterday, per NBC’s Morgan Parmet. “Of the total contract, it was a six-year-period contract. Of the total amount they keep talking about, I probably got about $35,000 a year. Now that's less than I was making per speech so that's what my particular interest in it was that amount.”
*** A family affair: It’s also worth noting how Gingrich’s campaign has become a family affair. Yesterday, per NBC’s Ali Weinberg, daughter Jackie Gingrich Cushman stumped for her father in South Carolina, where she responded to Gingrich’s past divorces. (Cushman is the daughter of Gingrich’s first wife, Jackie Battley.) “Most families have gone through terrible things, whether it’s divorce or tragedy. That’s life,” she said. “We’ve healed, we’ve reconciled.” She later told Weinberg: “I try to frame it in a way that makes sense and resonates with people,” adding: “Like many families, we had a hard time and we’ve all moved on. And we’re all focused on helping each other.” This is a very important message for Gingrich to get out -- that his family is supportive. This matters a lot to evangelicals, who may be looking for a reason to forgive Gingrich for his past indiscretions. Keep an eye out for some big evangelical endorsements today in Iowa, something Gingrich badly needs. No guarantee he gets them.
*** Those Paul newsletters: Ron Paul supporters often complain that their candidate doesn’t get enough media attention. But if they wanted him treated like a typical front-runner, they might see more coverage like today’s New York Times look at “decades-old unbylined columns in his political newsletters that included racist, anti-gay and anti-Israel passages that he has since disavowed.” One example: “A 1992 passage from the Ron Paul Political Report about the Los Angeles riots read, ‘Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks.’” Also: “A passage in another newsletter asserted that people with AIDS should not be allowed to eat in restaurants because ‘AIDS can be transmitted by saliva.’” And: “[O]ne of his publications criticized Ronald Reagan for having gone along with the creation of the federal holiday honoring the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., which it called ‘Hate Whitey Day.’” Paul has said that he didn’t write these things in his newsletter and that he disavows them. But just think all the scrutiny that Rick Perry got for that Texas ranch rock. These newsletters are just as problematic -- if not more so…
*** Could Paul winning Iowa kill the caucuses? Politico’s Martin raises that very question. “Paul poses an existential threat to the state’s cherished kick-off status, say these Republicans, because he has little chance to win the GOP nomination and would offer the best evidence yet that the caucuses reward candidates who are unrepresentative of the broader party. ‘It would make the caucuses mostly irrelevant if not entirely irrelevant,’ said Becky Beach, a longtime Iowa Republican who helped Presidents Bush 41 and Bush 43 here. ‘It would have a very damaging effect, because I don’t think he could be elected president and both Iowa and national Republicans wouldn’t think he represents the will of voters.’”
*** On the 2012 trail: It’s another BUSY day: Bachmann, Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum all campaign in Iowa… And Huntsman, Paul, and Romney campaign in New Hampshire… Also in Iowa today, Bob Vander Plaats, president & CEO of The Family Leader, will announce his endorsement at 11:30 am ET.
Countdown to Iowa caucuses: 14 days
Countdown to New Hampshire primary: 21 days
Countdown to South Carolina primary: 32 days
Countdown to Florida primary: 42 days
Countdown to Nevada caucuses: 46 days
Countdown to Super Tuesday: 77 days
Countdown to Election Day: 324 days
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House Republicans are engaging in the most petty, most offensive, most anti-American game of partisanship one can possibly imagine. For the GOP to fight so hard to block much-needed tax relief for working Americans shows how out of touch they are with the country, and why voters are giving the party some of its worst approval numbers in history. The Republican Party's blind hatred for the middle-class is setting up a major electoral defeat for them in 2012. Americans simply do not trust the GOP. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
Why do Senate Dems oppose giving 160 million hard working American’s a full year middle class tax cut??
With all the lefty liberal BS whining about Republican’s trying to “destroy the middle class in order to serve their 1% masters” (LMAO!!!!), why are Harry Reid and the majority Senate Dems refusing to interrupt their Christmas vacation in order to do the right thing for America’s middle class??
I always finalize my personal annual budget between Christmas and New Years Day and, thanks to Harry Reid and the Senate Dems, it will have to show a reduction in income for March-December.
What a bunch of MORONS!!!!!
John Boehner is on the side of 160 million hard working American’s whose paychecks will end up being cut so Harry Reid can relax in his mansion in Searchlight , NV, not worrying about his lavish Senator’s salary paycheck being cut because he is a multi-millionaire and earns lots of money from tax exempt interest on school and county bonds:
(BTW, when does Barry go off on his three week golfing vacation in Hawaii??)
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
Earned income: $193,400.
Honoraria, all donated to charity: None.
Major assets: 54 percent interest in 55 acres of patent survey in Nevada, $500,001-$1 million; 160 acres in Bullhead City, Ariz., $250,001-$500,000; interest in two other patented mining claims, $500,002-$1 million. Eighteen county and state bonds each valued in the $50,001-$100,000 range. Three stock funds in the $50,001-$100,000 range.
Major sources of unearned income: Interest from school district, county and state bonds, $34,000-$79,500. Stock dividends, $6,400-$19,000.
Major liabilities: None listed.
US Payroll Tax Cut Extension Stuck in Partisan Fight
Reuters
| 19 Dec 2011 | 10:54 PM ET
With a tax cut for 160 million U.S. workers set to expire in less than two weeks, Republicans and Democrats in Congress on Monday were mired in a last-ditch battle over extending it.
In a surprise turnabout, Republicans in the House of Representatives are now pushing for a one-year extension of the payroll tax cut and have rejected a short-term compromise struck by Republicans and Democrats in the Senate at the weekend.
House Republicans had initially expressed concerns over the economic benefits of renewing the tax break, which expires on Dec. 31, and soon-to-expire jobless benefits.
The House is set to vote sometime during the day on Tuesday to formally request negotiations with the Senate on a new bill.
But the path to compromise was far from clear as Democrats took a hardline stance and accused House Republicans of reneging on the deal between their brethren and Democrats in the Senate.
Democratic Senate leader Harry Reid said he was unwilling to reopen negotiations. Almost all senators have already left Washington for the holidays and the Democratic-controlled chamber has no legislative business scheduled until Jan. 23.
Simple!
Boehner can't stay sober long enough to put his finger on the pulse!
Meanwhile, Cantor is waiting for just the right moment to drive the knife between John's shoulder blades...
Many of the Republican-Tea Bagger types should and will be voted out in 2012.
I am appalled that Newtoid's daughter would be so disloyal to her own mother, the victim in all of this, that she would be speaking to the Newtie, much less campaigning for him. Just a real chip off the old block, right?
You can't have Newtoid out preaching family values, trying to impeach a President over the same behavior that he is engaged in and just say "God forgives me". The Ten Commandments are supposed to mean something to the "holier than thou" crowd. Apparently what really matters to them is that they can employ situational ethics for their own moral failings.
Gingrinch's daughter must really want to walk in the White House as though she belongs there. She won't. The American people have too much sense.
Cornered? The Republicans? And you call yourselves "journalists". More like "Team Obama".
And what of Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV)? What are his feelings?
Poor Democrats! Someone disagrees with them. By the way, nice use of CAPS. That always convinces people to think like you.
Lets see who is really cornered, shall we? Here we have a dysfunctional Senate that can barely pass a bill, passing a temporary stop-gap bill for the payroll tax holiday Obama has been whining about for weeks, and that means they just wanted to go home for a their vacations. The Senate has left town. defying Obama's orders to stay in town and in session until the job is done.
The House mean time wants to have a full year on the Obama's precious tax holiday, and they also want the Keystone project which will produce tens of thousands of jobs. Sounds like a win-win to sane people. Harry Reid is pouting because they might actually have to do some real work for once this year, and you "journalists" call the GOP "cornered". Funny stuff, maybe you should write for SNL.
You hacks in the media have been exposed.
If there is a trait that is common to the liberal mind, it is a never ending quest to find the truth, to find explanations for what we see, to find evidence to support our beliefs. Yet, there are times we cannot accept clear evidence, undeniable truth, and indisputable facts. We do not want to believe that many people are unable to reason; that they strictly follow the dictates of dogma, that they cannot process information that runs counter to that dogma.
We cannot bring ourselves to believe that those people lie, and lie repeatedly. We see these filthy liars attack those who do not willingly share in their mindless allegiance to dogma. They are deathly afraid of the uncertainty that motivates the liberal mind to search for answers and so they embrace dogma. Dogma and ideology provide perfect answers for those who cannot reason and woe unto the heretic who would dare question those perfect answers. Such heretics are elitists. They are arrogant. They are worthy of derision.
Thus do we see the unrelenting and unremitting attacks on reason, logic, and facts from the right-wing ideologues. We are buried under an avalanche of lies. That those lies are easily exposed and crushed is of no moment. They will not be deterred by proof that shatters their dogma.
Many of them, like Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin, have at their command a vast store of high-sounding phrases, meaningless terms, and multi-syllabic words that they can string together and regurgitate for the benefit of their low-intelligence audiences. Parse their pronouncements and you find behind them utter nonsense, vacuous pronouncements, and in all too many cases, outright lies.
The mindless second-team zombies show up here day in and day out. Yesterday, we saw the wholly unsupported nonsense from damage123 - vituperative screeds of pure ignorance and hatred, directed ironically against the very people who protect his right to spew such filth. We read the post of In The Middle, who, if he is to be believed, has fought in every armed conflict since WWII, and needs a hand truck to carry his wealth of medals and ribbons. We read daily the same rehashed and discredited BS of Smiff, the low-grade taunts of Albany Joe, the lies and provocation of Spanky. They bring no value to the Vine.
There are many others of course. They have absolutely no credibility, and they have earned banishment. They have rightfully been sent to the nether world of "ignore". Some advance the valueless notion that putting posters on "ignore" is an act of cowardice. That is ridiculous on its face. We already know the dogma they will bring. They never - NEVER - bring anything new. Hatred is old hat. We know about it. We ignore them in the same way we ignore bridge abutments and head-on crashes.
The right-wing, low-intelligence cohort will always be under the bell curve of mankind. They provide counterpoint, and they define those of us who seek information, truth, and facts. That is their sole value. They have absolutely nothing else to offer.
Joe,
In case you weren't paying attention, the deal that was struck over the weekend was approved by 90% of the Senate...that means Democrats and Republicans alike (see also: BIPARTISAN).
See, Joe, that means the GOP has skipped town as well.
If anything it appears that the first problem here is that Boehner, Cantor and McConnell aren't on the same page.
David:
Well written. There are people that one must ignore on FR simply because they bring nothing of value, and want to derail the conversation to themselves and/or personal attacks. The threads very quickly become tedious beyond measure.
Ignoring certain posters is not an act of cowardice, but a moral measure. Do we really need to get into pissing matches with skunks?
I don't think there is any reason to.
mattpfl, well said! Hard to believe just how far from reality and the voice of the People, the GOP has traveled.
David Walker, also well said.
Goes to show NDD - Tiffany's can buy a lot of things, however, loyalty & class isn't amongst them.
Just take a look at Calista...
The true question here is who is running the House? I contend it is Eric Cantor and the 80 teapublicans. It is fine to have strong principles, but you have to be willing to sacrifice some of those principles for the good of the entire country. Democrats have, the President has - to the dismay of some in his party, but the GOP will not. Shame on them!
It does matter how they handle it now, up or down vote, procedural hocus pocus, or whatever, they have drawn all the attention to themselves, and even had some help with that from senate republicans, so they will own this politically no matter what they do they will get the blame, for either screwing the working folks and raising taxes, or backing down from insisting on a longer agreement and having to do this all over again soon. Boehner looks like an idiot, the Speaker of the House that can't speak for the house, Ha I'll bet Nancy is tickled at this fool.
Well, he's done it again. The WEEPER OF THE HOUSE has again spoken out of turn without getting the blessing of Cantor. This did not sit well with Eric and Boehner was told that he would take his toy away(gavel) if he ever did it again. Looks like a new Speaker in the future.
In the meantime our Country and our people go down the toilet while the Repugs and their false leaders play their chidish games.
Vote them all out. Take back the House and increse the Senate.
Obama in 2012.
Isn't that the truth, Feisty?
Forrest, you have that right! The "teabaggers" are giving the Republican leadership fits. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
There is an old saying that no man is an island. Well, I guess Speaker Boehner has proven that wrong.
David,
Great post--and thanks. Just a minor quibble.
Metaphorically speaking, I'm not sure Palin has any multi-syllabic words in her arsenal.
Like "Hope and Change", "Yes We Can", "Win The Future"? These are phrases Obama uses to mystify he most loyal low-information voters, many of them on these very pages.
And Sarah Palin David? Really reaching there dude.
Here's some truths for you David. 8.6% unemployment, and only because hundreds of thousands of the unemployed have given up looking. Record number of people on food stamps, record number of people in poverty, record deficits, record debt. 13 million unemployed, 25 million under-employed. Those are the truths of Obama David. Now write another tedious 10,000 word screed explaining those items.
What a joke you have become David.
I for one do not believe it was an errant off-the-wall Joe Biden who said the "Taliban is not our enemy." No one on left or right could believe that statement with a straight face. You are a blithering idiot and buffoon if you believe that. Carney's futile attempt to explain it away is a dog that don't hunt.
My prediction -- Biden doesn't survive this one on purpose. The president who does not have a record to run on will select a new running mate. No and don't believe that Biden stepped down for any other reason other than he is being forced out. This failed president needs some new blood that has somewhat of a positive record to add to the lying team.
CA Tom -- she may be on to something when she closes -- Obama 2012 instead of Obama/Biden 2012.
David Walker:
You have just proved your ignorance. Enough said.
Kick Rocks, go back to sleep.
BTW: YOU are still a certified JACKAZZ.......#nowruntellthat
You can't have Newtoid out preaching family values, trying to impeach a President over the same behavior that he is engaged in
_____________________________________________________________________
Say whatever you want to about Gingrich, just get your facts straight first.
Bill Clinton, President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice on December 19, 1998,
The last time I checked , Gingrich has not ever been charged with perjury or obstruction of justice, and found to be in contempt of a federal court, and had a license to practice law suspended for five years as a result.
Contempt of court citation
In April 1999, about two months after being acquitted by the Senate, Clinton was cited by Federal District Judge Susan Webber Wright for civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit. For this citation, Clinton was assessed a $90,000 fine, and the matter was referred to the Arkansas Supreme Court to see if disciplinary action would be appropriate.[24]
Regarding Clinton's January 17, 1998, deposition where he was placed under oath, the judge wrote:
"Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. (Monica) Lewinsky was intentionally false, and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false...."[24]
In January 2001, on the day before leaving office, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license as part of an agreement with the independent counsel[clarification needed] to end the investigation. Based on this suspension, Clinton was automatically suspended from the United States Supreme Court bar, from which he then chose to resign.[25]
Good morning David. GREAT! GREAT! GREAT!
The phrase "hockey mom" includes a two syllable word, ha also too there is "you betcha" in which bet you is pronounced as a single two syllable word.
Forrest,
That was really funny!
And here come the wild-eyed, drooling, blathering nutcases attacking David's post. Methinks he hit a nerve. Seems to happen whenever the Truth is spoken.
Thank you to the Democratic Senate for continuing to push our economy into the toilet! After failing to pass 22 Jobs Bills sent to them by the House of Representatives and now sending back a piece of crap dictated by Harry Reid, it continues to show that the Senate does not care about this counrtry. All they want is to get their in failed president re-relected. Again, the Senate has chosen self interest politicizing over the American people!
It's not only David - the asylum has opened the gates...
Brace yourself - it's going to get fugly!
the low-grade taunts of Albany Joe,
_________________________________________
I just might be offended if I actually cared what this poster, who is way over impressed with himself, thinks about me.
He is just very easily impressed.
Moron.
To be honest: I rarely read Joe from wherever's post, because he is SOOOO predictable. But, since he quoted me, it caught my eye.
So riddle me this, Joey: How DO you have an affair without lying? Hmmmmm?
Situational ethics, folks, read Joe's post, if you can stand the tedious predictability. He brings it to life.
IT's TRUE!!!! Since the liberal media can't see their noses - well you know the rest.
The democrats ALL YEAR have been throwing the American people under the bus. And have been very successful in making slow minded liberals believe it is ALL the Republican. REALLY!!! The Republicans already passed the payroll tax extension. That was last week. Didn't anyone see that. It is Harry Reid causing this grief NOT the Republicans. This is nothing more the Democrap politics PERIOD.
They must of posted this over on the Blaze & Drudge Report...
I guess you did not see Mitch McConnell smiling and high fiving as he came out of the chamber, he did appear to have been dictated to by Reid. Ha the house republicans killed this period.
Joe in Albany
You ever see that bumper sticker: "Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they're open."
If you would open your mind a little, you could learn a lot from David--he's an inspiration to many of us here. But based on the posts I've seen from you, I'm not holding out any hope.
Good points, newday.
YAY, FIRST READ!
You know, you could just start changing the articles at the top and it won't matter, because the posts are always the same.
Hey, whatever, apparently thinking about issues in a critical way is soo....not the American trend in education. You know, with our internationally top rated education system (not!). :D
The Republicans are their own worst enemies, Obama is just kicking back grinning, the cold hard truth is the majority of the voters are Middle class and the Poor which the GOP has stepped on every chance they could and Now with this latest Dog & Pony show the voters are going to want somebodies head on a stake well too be truthful they are going too want a lot of people heads on those stakes and the GOP now has that big red bulls eye on themselves but they decided that the few were more important than the many now come 2012 they will have to pay the piper ..... Oh happy days
Same @!$%#, different day. yawn
Joe,
In case you weren't paying attention, the deal that was struck over the weekend was approved by 90% of the Senate...that means Democrats and Republicans alike (see also: BIPARTISAN).
____________________________________________________
The last time I checked the Dems held a majority in the Senate. If the Republican's are not going to filibuster it, then the Dems could pass the full year tax cut on their own without a single Republican vote.
Da Rhoid: Wanna give it another try??
Why do Senate Dems oppose giving 160 million hard working American’s a full year middle class tax cut??
MSNBC writes very poor biased articles and this one is proof of that.
Just another article written to divide our nation and spew partisan rhetoric... and look, the same handful of hateful partisan hacks posting as usual...
MSNBC towing the line as usual is all this article is...and it has little to no valuable information.
Thanks, Jack, you too!
Boehner, the day of reckoning is coming for you and all those Norquist-pledge traitors in the Congress.
We'll endure the pain. And then you'll feel the pain in 2012 !
.
The GOP/TP doesn't know when it's winning or they are just plain stupid. They have a Democratic president that is more moderate that he sold himself to be. He has compromised way too much to the chagrin of this party and base and here are the GOP/TPers winning, but get so giddy with power that they are grasping for more. Either Obama is the smartest man in the room or the GOP/TPers in their mad dash to do whatever it takes to win and win and win is making him look like the only adult in the room. You gotta know when to fold them, but apparently that is not in the GOP/TPer playbook.
Would you be willing to bet the mortgage that an attempt by the Senate Democrats to pass a clean extension of the payroll tax cut wouldn't be filibustered? I didn't think so.
This from the guy that puts people on "Ignore" the first time someone calls him out. Thin skinned, that's Jack.
But nice try Jack. Good humor.
So riddle me this, Joey: How DO you have an affair without lying?
_____________________________________________
Not very bright, are you??
Lying about an affair and a licensed attorney lying while testify under an oath to "tell the truth and nothing but the truth" are NOT the same thing.
One is a moral wrong, the other is a federal crime.
Holy Hannah!! Who was it that pee'd in the RWNJ's cereal this morning? 'Fess up, now. You guys on the right need to chill out, or go back to Fox or Drudge or wherever.
Speaker Boehner where are the jobs you and your cohorts promised? All you have been capable of doing is arguing!
This is the way it is and always has been with republicans. At least, when they have enough Congressional members. They represent only the rich of this country. Middle and working class, and especially the poor, are all on their own, or preferably, they hope, they will just go ahead and die, and get the hell out of the way. If we really want to change this, we must get rid of these sons-a-bitches.
Would you be willing to bet the mortgage that an attempt by the Senate Democrats to pass a clean extension of the payroll tax cut wouldn't be filibustered? I didn't think so.
________________________________________
Thanks to Harry Reid's obstructionism, we'll probably never know the answer to that question.
The American people said its time to stop the nonsense. Speaker Pumpkin-head is risking a tax increase for millions "Just because the Tea-Retards raised their voices" Bonehead was for the bill, now hes against it after a private meeting with the Tea-Retards.
And there you have it from Joey: He can't answer my question. The question is simply this; How DO you have an affair without lying? The answer (as all of you know who are not Joey) is that you can't.
What Joey means to say if he could be honest is this: My guy didn't get caught. Therefore he is a better sleaze than your guy. But even that would not be true, since other Republicans ran Newtie out of his post.
Sorry Joey, doesn't wash. But, nothing you say ever does.
i think reid should be held accountable for no passing 7-10 bi-partisan jobs bills since february 2011.
what does he have to gain by tabling these bills.....other than the fact boehner is now speaker ?
i wish they would do their job....period.
If it becomes in vogue for the media to go after Ron Paul, a lot of those supporters will probably tip toward Gingrich, and he could still win Iowa, cementing the two-candidate knock-down, drag out to the convention.
There's a lot of material about Ron Paul, and its mostly been untapped because he's never been seen as a serious enough candidate to bother with. When you get reporters interrupting his 'message' daily with questions like, "are you seriously opposed to public roads, public schools?" then he's done.
If Paul can hold his supporters in Iowa, it will be in effect a Romney win, and Romney nomination. While this year is full of things we haven't seen before, it is hard to imagine a well funded and cautious candidate losing the nomination after winning Iowa and New Hampshire.
David--Well worded and polished as usual. Also lacking any credibility as usual for failing to recognize that neo-conservatives and tea-partiers do not have the market cornered on listening only to what what fits their internal narrative, and dismissing opposing viewpoints. You obviously are listening to your own (favored liberal) narrative--liberals are educated, inquisitive and smart, conservatives are dumb reactionary hicks. I respect your intellect, but until we all realize that demagoguery from either end of the spectrum isn't getting us anywhere, your intellect will be wasted on being an idealogue, just like the ones you criticize--a well-spoken idealogue, and a polite one, but an idealogue nevertheless...
Same old partisan @!$%# from NBC. All you need to know about their Politics was aptly displayed by Chuck Todd flipping off America on National TV. Up yours too Chuck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Bonehead is a Dishonor to this Nation" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems we have hit desperation time here on the team Obama site. We get word on the ABC WaPo poll- but no mention that it is pretty easy to get a "bump" when you increase the Democrats in the pool by three percent, and decrease the republicans by one percent. Kind of explains that four point "bump", doesn't it?
Oh, and of course, no mention of this poll
http://www.gallup.com/poll/151634/Romney-Gingrich-Tie-Obama-2012-Ballot.aspx
Stay with me, Team. What happens if, oh, say, Romney, if he gets the nomination, or Gingrich, if he gets it, chooses the OTHER as Veep? By the way, I also see an opening for Gingrich to choose Huntsman if he gets the nomination.
Add this to your equation- there is an anonymous group spending quite a bit of money to have folks write in Hillary's name in New Hampshire. Cool...
And, I think Obama can go ahead and dump Biden if he likes- of course, he can then kiss Pennsylvania goodbye- but I simply do not think Hillary Clinton will join Obama on the ballot.
She has better things to do than to try to prop up this particular narcissist.
So, see, news people - it's in your interest to hammer Ron Paul right now. What are you going to fill your political pages with if we have a Republican nominee in a month?
They are republicans..of course they are confused!
David,
While I agree that a large percent of conservatives are mindless followers, I think there is an equally large percentage of liberals that are also mindless followers. The truth is, most people are not critical thinkers.
Labeling one group as less intelligent, liars, etc., is very destructive to constructive debate - and is contrary to your stated belief that liberals are in "a never ending quest to find the truth". Also, I recommend changing the goal from "to find evidence to support our beliefs" to something like "base our beliefs on the evidence we find". The former statement assumes the beliefs are already set and it's just a matter of cherry picking data until I find results to justify my beliefs. The second statement says I objectively evaluate everything I see, and then reach a conclusion based on my research.
As a society, we need to get past the messenger and start focusing on the merits of the ideas they espouse. It doesn't matter to me who made the suggestion, what matters is finding the best solution to a problem.
In the Middle:
Your response was 100% predictable. My first thought was, "like clay in my hands," but that just doesn't quite work for me. So, off I went on a simile search.
Well, son of a gun, you guys are good for something. I took your advice and kicked some rocks. Voila. The perfect simile. No, not like marble in a sculptor's hands.
Drool in a cup. Yes, that's it. Drool in a cup.
New Day - I agree with you, not sure how a good daughter could ever approve and forgive her father for treating her mother like that. I would never have spoken to my father again had he paraded his tramp in my mother's sick room asking for a divorce! and I would never, ever let one of his tramp's be around my children. I truely doubt she would have ever wanted to meet me - cause it would not have been pretty, sure never understood why Chelsea Clinton did not slap the crap out of Monica Lewinsky and make her tell all of us who set her up to seduce the President. One thing that is very clear about republicans and their affairs - it is ok as long as you divorce and leave your real wife and family to marry your tramp - that keeps the evangical's happy right? NOT! Anyone who truely reads and knows the Bible understands 3 very basic things, none of which most of today's gop wants folks to know about: Adultry is wrong (and more than one living spouse is considered adultry), the wealthy will have a very difficulty time going to heaven plus you are to never ever treat a wealthy person better than you treat everyone else, and the real kicker in the teeth for the mega wealth gop - God's only Son was born into a working middle class family! If it is good enough for Jesus, it should be more than good enough for everyone else. The good news - God's forgiveness is for ALL, not just the wealthy or members of the gop.
Now - back to the main topic at hand, middle class tax cuts should be permanant, not for two months, however, two months is a good start and gives congress time to pass the middle class tax cuts and make them permanant as well as making it permanant to raise taxes on the upper 1%. Cut spending, by all means, but cut it in the right places - defense contractors, oil subsidies, sending money to other countries (especially tired of proping Israel up all the time, even God stayed angry with Israel most of the time in the past, why would he feel any differently now?), spend my tax money on healthcare for the poor, retirement benefits for all who work, good schools, good roads, nice state and national parks for working people to vacation in, and safe working environments for every job in every industry/business.
Based on my own, decidedly informal polling of my Republican contacts, they think the "optics" seem to favor the Dems on this issue. If the Senate holds it's ground, the house is going to look like less than a "champion" of the working man/woman, and may for the first time in a long time, do a "folderoo" Democrat-style, complete with lame rhetoric that attempts to co-opt the agreement after opposing it.
We will know soon enough how this "crisis" plays out, but the endless, calculating, gamesmanship being practiced by our elected representatives throughout this difficult time for most working people surely merits voting most if not all of them out on their fannies at the next available opportunity...
The Pledge of allegiance to Grover Norquist that the GOP Tea-Retards signed is doing serious harm to this Nation. Throw all the Koch lowlife Bums out.
@ Rick
Another cold hard truth is that Democrats prey on the middle class and poor with promises of free money in order to secure votes.
Now, good luck trying to deliver that without the money being stamped "Made in China".
Bye Bye Boehner (but this is good, no need for Viagra)
Bye Bye Tea Party! Good riddance!!
Bye Bye Newt!!!! No slithering out of this...
I am and have always been a democrat; However I have question the integrity of this statement:
Think about your comment. Do you really think 2 months of tax relief is really going to help the Hard Working Americans? Lets get real here. If congress, the entire 112th, cannot pass a real tax cut for the working class American ,at least 1 year or more, then it is just a farce I have no Love for the GOP or Boehner, but I do belief in giving people a fair deal. In this case the GOP is truly looking out for the middle class. I am not a supporter of the Keystone XL and do agree it should not be part of the package. The one thing I do not agree to is making the Keystone XL part of the tax extension deal. Perhaps the Democrats should insist on elimination of the Bush tax cuts to the wealthy if we have to accept the Keystone XL. That would be a fair swap. The dems will get the tax hike on the wealthy they have insisted so hard for, and the wealthy will ge their Pipeline. To be quite honest, I don't think either side wants an end to the Bush tax cuts because all of the congress and white house would be affected, and none of them really care if the working class gets a tax extension as the extension has no real effect on them or the wealthy.
President Obama is a GREAT President and he will be re-elected in 2012. You can bet your $10,000 dollars on that.
@Joe in albany:
Democrats aren't stupid enough to vote on a bill that Republicans attached a pipeline requirement to, just so it would pass. They attached the pipeline to the tax bill because they knew dems would vote for it.... or so they thought. Fortunately, Dems aren't THAT stupid, but they are more willing to compromise than republiCANTs are. Therefore, 2 months to make it happen now, and later they make it more permanent.
Besides, stupid ass Boehnhead said he didn't want a temporary extension, and he finds 2 months to be temporary. Well, then what's one year? That's not "temporary"? Sounds temporary to me if it's not permanent.
Boehnhead is a moron, and I cant wait until Republicant's wake up in November, and realize they just lost all majority. I like a balanced congress, but republicants have shown they are incapable of working with democrats, whereas the dems have shown they are willing to compromise on some items.
I like many conservatives, but republicants like Boehnhead will never get my vote.
David, that was awesome. And InTheMiddle,TX still had the nerve to suggest that you somehow "proved your ignorance" by composing an example of intelligent thought and analsys. It's true what you said, and InTheMiddle exemplifies it: some people cannot be hit in the head with truth and reason. Their skulls are just too thick, and these are the people that follow the GOP.
"Gosh darn it, yer ignerent no matter what yew say er dew." Open your mouth to sneeze, and to them, it somehow proves your ignorance. I really think they just hate us for being able to figure things out while they have to trust their leaders who treat them like dogs. Toss them a biscuit every once-in-a-while, and they'll be loyal even though they will never, ever get to eat at the table.
Union Baby,
Why make these tax cuts permanent? We are already collecting less in taxes than the entitlement programs cost...at some point we have to start paying for the services we want government to provide (or cut the services). I'm somewhat ok with a 1 year extension, but we need to get serious about reducing the deficit before the rest of the world forces changes on us (like we're seeing in Europe now). Continuing to stick out heads in the sand is not a viable solution.
The problem I see in this country is everyone is too greedy. We have tons of wants, but nobody wants to pay for anything.
I completely agree on cutting spending - especially on the military.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The Tea-Retards are Blackmailing our Country" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why do cheerleaders waste space on here????
no joe: let's talk poll numbers when your primary is decided. That's when the Obama/GOP Primary winner become a popcorn worthy issue. Until then, Newty will still have to explain his personal life, because of the relentless assualt by his running mates. Mitt will still wonder what they are really saying about him and his religion, his stance on abortion, gay issues and healthcare. Ron Paul will still be wondering why he is not getting traction, when he is the only one that has stuck to his rhetoric for decades and decades. Perry, is still figuring how to form a sentence without shooting himself in the foot. Huntsman will still be wondering if he is talking to sane people, since there is no room for a moderate in the GOP/TP tent. Ricky from PA will still be talking about brimstone and fire. Michelle will still be trying to convience Ron Paul that she doesn't hate Muslims and that she is smarter than a 5th grader. So no joe, we will see how this shakes out in the coming weeks/months. Until then, please let me enjoy the GOP primary race. I only wish Mr. Cain was still in it. I miss his sound bites. :( I am "200%" (since Cane was never 100% sure about anything) sure he would be cutting it up with his 999 plan.
The GOP T-Retards are the party of "Family Values" - "When Pigs Fly"
Awww, Joe, the Democrats in the Senate and President Obama don't oppose the full year extension at all. But you see, after rounds and rounds of "negotiation" with the teabaggers, who dug their heels in and whined and insisted on adding extraneous provisions about pipelines and such, the BI-PARTISAN group agreed to the 2-month extension. The rest of the year would be tackled when congress reconvenes - but in the meantime *I* (and the rest of middle-income America) won't be facing a tax increase on January 1.
What the teapubs don't seem to realize is that it doesn't matter how they spin it or what procedural mumbo-jumbo they engage in. Most of us really are intelligent enough to know who caused that hit to our paychecks in January if they don't stop playing games.
A big problem I have with a 2 month extension is the burden it places on companies to properly account for the tax implications. If someone uses a services like ADP, it's not a big deal. But, there are tons of companies that do not use an ADP style service and this type of issue is a procedural nightmare for them.
The politicians need to sit down and come up with at least a 1 year solution. I don't care if this means they have to work through Christmas - this is their job. I've had to work all major holidays in the past...it's not fun, but sometimes we have to do things we don't like.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The middle class was swept under the Bus by the GOP" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe: talk about a loose hold on reality and desperation politics: you've displayed it. Newt/Romney picking the other as their VP choice??? Hilarious!!! Upset that Obama's numbers are strengthening? Oh come on...what the heck did you think would happen with these light weight bat crazy scary candidates of yours talking about how they can't wait to wage war with Iran or North Korea--but will settle for war right now on gays, women and the middle class?
Ron:
We aren't talking science here, but one forms a hypothesis based on existing evidence/theory and then searches for evidence to support that hypothesis. The searcher presupposes that his hypothesis is correct. That evidence may or may not not support the theory. That has nothing to do with cherry picking, UNLESS you are an ideologue.
The liberal mind should always be ready to accept the possibility that he or she is wrong. That is the reason so many of us who were once Republican have left the party.
In my opinion, you are absolutely correct that there are as many mindless drones on the left as on the right. However, they do not come to these posts with the same frequency of the right-wing clods. The left-wingers also have a component of laziness. That's just my opinion. I also agree wholeheartedly that most people are not critical thinkers.
That said, if you go to blogs and check comments, you will find that a great number of right-wingers are impervious to fact, that they are outright liars, and they are wedded to dogma. It serves no purpose to pretend they bring something of value to a forum. Indeed, I would argue that not identifying liars is counterproductive. Are we well-served pretending that Jon Kyl and Eric Cantor are not outright liars? Liars are destructive. Identifying them is to preclude those who masquerade as messengers, but are in fact saboteurs. That is why it is very important to know who made the suggestion.
Constructive debate is only possible when the participants are honest.
These are the beliefs for which the erudite blowhard is seeking proofs
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70684.html
Obama believes himself to be the fourth best president of the U.S.
Forget Jefferson. Out the door with Washington. Eisenhower? Pfffft. Ditto Reagan. Adams, Coolidge, and Truman have no rank against "the Great O". Nope. All rabble.
I guess CBS figured that if they edited it out of the broadcast, it would not be so embarrassing to the great narcissist.
They guessed wrong.
mindcrime:
There is absolutely nothing that precludes someone of a conservative bent from having a liberal mind. The true conservatives I know are always looking for new information. They are not rigid ideologues.
I'm going out on a limb on this, but I suspect you have bought into the notion that "conservative" and "Republican" are close to synonymous. Rush Limbaugh is NOT a conservative. Newt Gingrich is NOT a conservative. In fact, President Obama is much closer to a conservative point of view than either of those two totalitarians. Yes, that is a proper descriptor for Limbaugh and Gingrich.
What Joey means to say if he could be honest is this: My guy didn't get caught.
__________________________________________
NDDy, again: You aren't very bright are you??
What part of Gingrich did not commit the federal crime of perjury, like Clinton did, do you not understand??
Moron.
Since we seem to be on the topic of keeping an open mind, and searching for proof
http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/when-the-legend-becomes-fact-print-the-legend/
David Walker, people like you who hold themselves in such high esteem while spitting out such total BS always amuse me. Using words like ideologue,truth, logic, like Liberals own the words to arrogant to realize they're talking about themselves. The truth is two months savings of $160 wow my heart be still, coming out of the surplus of SS funds, how about a real tax break on payroll. Your rich Liberal Politicians sitting at home really are so concerned with your well being. I'm no big fan of the Republicans either, but it seems Boehners one year extension makes a lot more sense then a weak two month extension. I guess the party of no depends on which side you're on.
What did you expect when in order to stay in office you need to sign a pledge for no new taxes to the almighty God Grover Norquist. What it amounts to is a gang of thugs with no interest in common citizens.
MAIN STREET MEDIA gets it!
While GOP watches FOX...the MAIN STREET MEDIA reports on
the homeless,
the foreclosed,
the tent cities,
the motel kids,
the unemployed,
the poverty,
the food banks,
the lines at job fairs,
the requests from social services
the increased numbers of requests for assistance
JUST ONCE...will the (R)'s just watch MAIN STREET MEDIA for America's reality.
David Walker, I read your crap and went on a simile search.
I came up with: Stool in a cup. Your words remind me of stool in a cup.
David,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I definitely agree that constructive debate is only possible when both sides are honest - which is why I generally only respond to comments from posters such as you, that appear to be open to other ideas. (I try to ignore the lemmings)
Personally, I'm pretty disappointed with the leadership in both parties, and I think they are generally more concerned with their political career and their party, than they are with the country. While I agree Cantor, McConnell, etc. tell plenty of lies and twist facts, I think the same can be said of Pelosi, Reid and Obama. I do think there are good, honest politicians in both parties - but they are not in the leadership positions.
The Senate should have just signed what was sent to them. To cut the time of the Tax Cuts down to two months is ludicrous.
The American people should lamblast them at the polls next November for being so insensitive. The whole year could be paid for. Just stop giving one country that is our enemy their annual stipend. That would pay for the cut and more.
The Federal Gov't spends too much money on other people in this time of need for the American people.
Good high paying jobs can be created if we use our own resources. Most would even be Union jobs for the liberals to ponder upon. Now we can only ask ourselves is President Obama willing to foresake his Union base for the sake of his environmental base to give us less needed jobs?
Which one is more important to the American citizen? I think at this time in our lives, it is JOBS first. We are one of the most ecologically friendly countries in the world and we still can not create any jobs for the folks while over in China the environment means nothing.
“The issue here is not going be a list of accomplishments. As you said yourself, Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president — with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln — just in terms of what we’ve gotten done in modern history. But, you know, but when it comes to the economy, we’ve got a lot more work to do.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70684.html#ixzz1h5iNxakh
As hard as it is for me to believe, Barry seems to be more impressed with himself than DW is with himself.
Barry is also just very easily impressed.
Once again, proving that liberalism is an incurable mental illness that only gets worse over time. Thus the term "progressive".
David:
Wrong on all counts...but you were going out on a limb, so I don't fault you for not being able to read my soul through electrons on a screen. "Republican" does not equal "conservative" in my mind. In fact, both of those terms (like the term "liberal") are pretty much bereft of any pure meaning anymore. The right-wing kooks you reference aren't true "conservatives" in my book either, but, other than as a comparison to something else, Mr. Obama isn't my idea of that term either....
SJM
Joe in Albany, JoAnna and all of you other Conservative Republicans you are just so ignorant about the facts it would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
The Senate Democrats WANTED a 1 year payroll tax cut but the SENATE REPUBLICANS BLOCKED THEM ON IT! The only way the Senate could pass ANYTHING was to agree to the 2 month extension the Republicans wanted. The Senate Republicans didn't want a 1 year because they would have to raise taxes on things they don't want to pay for it (IE: millionaires and billionaires).
Get a freaking clue it's the Republicans all the way around screwing with the American people at every chance they can get. They don't give a damn about anyone unless they are making millions a year and have proven it year after year. Sadly the republican electorate is too busy listening to right wing lies (talking points) to know what the truth is anymore.
Joey: love knowing that you are squirming about this. So, I return the question: What part of LYING do you NOT GET? Hmmmmmm?
Union Baby: I know whereof I speak since my personal history parallels Newtoid's daughter. I held true to conviction. I do not speak to the offender, but in my case, when this happened, my saint of a mother was terminally ill and put out of her house.
I love how all the "tolerant" Liberals on here collapse all of the posts by those of us on the right. PATHETIC
Show me ONE example of the Democrats trying to compromise. You Liberals are nuts
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?
I mean that, what has happened to them? Take a step back everybody and look at the situation we find ourselves in today. Please, stop the name-calling and the baiting of each other and think about what I am asking you. I think we need a national dialogue on this because this is root of the dysfunctional government fix we find ourselves in today. Oh, the Democrat Party has changed as well. They have been pulled to the right along with the movement of the GOP. But it's the GOP and it's quantum shift in philosophy that is driving American politics right now and I want to understand why we find ourselves here.
The party of Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater and Nixon. The "Puritans" of politics. Fiscally conservative. Not terribly progressive. Pro-military, pro-America, anti-Communist. Short hair, white socks and Lawrence Welk. That party. Remember them? The party of parsimonious party-poopers. ROTC, class presidents and John Wayne.
What happened to them? Was it Viet Nam? The fall of Communism? What?
I have a theory, but I'd really like to know what you think.
Leave your talking points at the door, along with your straight razors, switch-blades and handguns and talk to me.
I want to hear from everyone. Look back through the last 60 years of our history and tell me what you think happened to bring us to this point in history.
WiserJG: I do realize that asking a right winger to be honest is a lesson in futility.
Go look at the collapsed posts: were Lib posts collapsed? Or does that destroy your agenda?
Really, grow up.
@Ron-1861300
Careful. You are way over today's quota of common sense. You should throw out some incendiary slogans to even things up.
David Walker, great posts.
The teabaggers collapse my posts all the time, Weiser. Only I don't whine about it like they do.
The GOP and Congress are only interested in their pocketbooks and those of their buddies. The middle class doesn't even come into their eye line. As far a Newt's daughter, he's still her father and she probably feels she can't completely turn her back. That's a personal issue that she has to deal with but it doesn't change the fact that her father is morally bankrupt and nothing he says or does now can change that fact.
Romney or Gingrich choosing the other as a running mate is not as delusional as people thinking Hillary can be persuaded to join Obama's sinking ship.
Remember this?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/obamaflipsoffcl.html
Probably not- if the media had made of it what it should have, she would have had the nomination. Somehow, the media decided that Hillary was not cut out to be president, so Obama got away with whatever juvenile antics he chose to indulge in on the campaign trail.
America lost.
Skip
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?
I mean that, what has happened to them?
====================
Really. Here the Republicans are trying to pass a one year extension on one of President Obama's signature goals, a payroll tax holiday, and also getting 20,000 people back to work on Keystone. Two things the Democrats are dead set against. What in the world are the Republicans thinking?
RI Mom -
I'm a Republican who agrees with you. Hang in there. We aren't all bad!
Obama 2012 and stop legislating against the 99% you unpatriotic Teatards!! The country comes first, not your obsession with getting rid of Obama!!!!!
Don't you just luv it when these unpatriotic Teapublicans root against every semblance of good news about the economy?? The day of reckoning is coming!!!!
skip: A good question, one I have pondered since I used to be an active Republican, even invited to a Presidential inauguration. Kids used to take the souvenir copy to school for various assignments.
Did it start with Nixon and his appeal to the "Silent Majority"? I think so. Code for lawbreaking minorities, redmeat to the base at that time just like it is now. It certainly continued with Reagan, and his deal with the devil, the Evangelical leaders of that day. That is, if you recall, when Phyllis Schafly and her ilk began to rewrite the platform to be anti women and children.
Certainly Pat Buchanan's Culture War speech (was it in San Diego?) brought their plans into the light of day, though not enough disinfectant was applied to make it go away.
The Republican Party began to act like it owned the Presidency, and didn't cede that territory well, one just has to look at the war on the Clintons to know that.
But, this President, who does not look like the other Presidents, who has a different sounding name? I think that did it.
I hope you tell us what you believe. Will be watching.
A very happy Christmas to you and your family!
poor little joey,...it must suck to have to defend this pos candidate:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/leadership/stories/012297.htm
here's a sample:
And THIS is who is the current front runner of the nomination for the Presidency. These yahoos celebrate mediocrity as if it were Dom Perignon. I get that joey's underwear are in a bunch today; but let's remember ACCURATELY - Bill Clinton was a womanizing jerk,...and he was TWICE elected (after MANY scandals about his womanizing were revealed). He was an effective President, not my cup of tea (so to speak); but effective. Gingrich was forced by his own party to give up the gavel due to ethics violations. John McCain was censured by his peers for crimes he participated in in his late 50's. These aren't youthful indiscretions,...these are grown men acting like frat boys and the rules don't apply to them. They are despicable. And if I had to actually consider voting for them, I would probably be a panic poster, too.
None of joey's whining blathering has anything to do with President Obama and where the country is today and the Great New and Wondrous ideas the Republicans have to create jobs, get middle class people some tax relief or a little extra spending money to stimulate the economy some more.
He just wants to relitigate the Clinton wars from over a decade ago. Cuz living in the past is ALWAYS the way forward, right?
So, Newday, don't be discouraged. We have them by the short hairs and all they have left is the squealing. You should really look at it from the comedic relief. If they had anything legitimate to run on,...the Clinton era wouldn't even need to be part of the dialogue, right?
Now let's sit back and watch them defend Newt's record of honor and achievement, right? And, GO!
JoAnna:
Those "truths" about the situation we(the US) are currently in while Obama has been POTUS, would have been the same "truths" no matter who was POTUS.
That some of you honestly believe that it would have been different/better for us right now if McCain/Hilary/Giulani/Romney were the ones in the WH right now, is RIDICULOUS.
The sh*t would have hit the fan(and continued to do so for years), no matter who was elected POTUS.
No one has a magic wand to wave, and wish our troubles away. Anyone with common sense and logic, knows it will take more than 8 or 10 years to turn our economy back around.
Most of you ranting about "Obama is bad/the worse", have other deeper issues as to why you parrot ANY criticism(mostly false), of Obama.
I didn't even vote for the guy(Obama), and I've never seen so many automatically line up against him(since he became the Dem candidate), based on nothing more than hearsay and innuendo.
Bush didn't even get falsely criticized half as much as Obama has(by other politicians or citizens).
Remember when Cheney and other GOPers/right wingers(self pro claimed "patriots") were calling anyone who didn't agree with their policies as "anti-American" and "unpatriotic"? I do, and I won't let you forget it(even if you choose to deny it happened).
Joe: Who are you pointing the finger as being the culprits of "obstructionism"? Harry Reid?
LOL. Let me go get some high boots to put on, so I won't get all the BS you're spouting on my new jeans.
Reid and Pelosi have done their fair share of blocking and procrastinating, but it's minuscule in comparison to Boehner/McConnell(GOP), at the request of those like Norquist.
The GOP won't even let anything come up for a vote. How the hell can they refuse to do their jobs(out of fear?) and not let a vote be taken? The ones who are instigating this(not all GOP members, but more than a few), should be banned/fired. PERIOD.
I have no issue with this tax cut, but it is surprising that nobody seems concern that this payroll tax funds SS. One has to LOL since this is a classic case of Americans wanting a tax cut and funding for their SS but do NOT want to pay for it.
Based on the many postings today, I get the impression that many of YOU are crying.............;o)
Have a good week.
Absolutely, Clara, and it is fun watching Joey squirm about this.
Joanna
I asked you to leave your talking points at the door and discuss this honestly.
It has been pointed out, ad nauseum that the GOP has changed. This is not the party of Lincoln or Eisenhower or Nixon or even Reagan. This is a totally different animal and I'm trying to understand how you got where you are and why?
Perhaps you don't think the party has changed at all and that, in and of itself is revealing. Perhaps you are nothing but a troll and cannot write anything on this vine without a mention of today's talking points. Perhaps you're not JoannSmith but actually Mohammed something or other and just trying to pour gasoline on the fires of the American political debate. I don't know, obviously.
But I asked you to abandon your talking points and give me your honest perspective on the issue I have raised.
If you can't discuss this honestly please go back to the mud-fight.
The people that make tax software (National Payroll Reporting Consortium) have already publicly stated that the "two-month plan" is entirely unworkable. I'm not sure how the GOP is painted into the corner on this one if it is virtually impossible for the business sector to comply under a temporary "two-month plan".
Are you trying to say that the democratic party is the party of Truman, Kennedy, or, for crying out loud, Clinton?
Get real.
Sorry AL, Obama has been President for 3 years now. He's claimed many legislative victories, and we see the results. Obama and his team have made many economic predictions and promises, only to see them all fail. Obama did predict, with his $800 billion stimulus, that unemployment would be below 6% by now. Turns out that is not true. Obama doesn't have an agenda, he just flutters from one liberal cause to another, giving speeches, and blaming others. Recall Obama wanted another $449 billion or so stimulus just a couple of months ago. That wouldn't even come close to passing in the Democratic Senate, but Obama was out there for weeks blaming the GOP for something his Democrats wouldn't even pass. How much time did that consume for Obama? And what got done? The usual - nothing.
The Left wants to believe that Obama hasn't had anything to do with the economy for the last 3 years. The talking point is "Well, it was so bad, anything Obama did wouldn't have worked". That is not the truth and is just an odd method for the Left to forgive Obama for his horrid record.
Source for Obama unemployment numbers: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-09/news/30259697_1_unemployment-rate-president-obama-stimulus-plan
And Skip, no talking points at all, just the truth. Is the House not considering and voting on a 1 year extension to the pay-roll tax holiday. Well, yes they are! Is the House considering that the Keystone project move forward employing thousands? Well, yes they are!
Skip, you're stuck in you liberal dogma, you had gotten used in the first 2 years of Obama at getting your way no matter what. That's changed now with the elections of 2010. Now someone has a different opinion to yours, one that doesn't fit you fanatical left wing agenda. And now you're stunned, confused, and upset about it.
Time to come back to the reality of the situation skip.
I love to see Joe from Albany and JAS try to spin this disaster for their Party. ROLFL
I would have bet that Obama would lose this next election, but the Republicans just have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory....the party that just keeps on giving us....nothing but bile.
Keep up the good work Conservatives.
And Mike...do you really think anyone even knows who the National Payroll Reporting Consortium is? or cares? Yes, we'll take the full year if the rich pay for it.
BTW, why does Bachmann keep saying we are taking from the Soc. Security trust fund when it's paid for? Such a smart tax attorney who knows nothing about what she talks about (but she is a serious candidate - Oh My!)
Interesting, skip Nicholson, that you call for a pause on the blame game and then immediately point the finger at Republicans for veering farther right while completely ignoring that the Democrats have veered equally far left. That's more than a bit disingenuous, I would say.
Why should the House conform to the Senate bill? Why doesn't the Senate conform to the House bill? I guess it all depends on the who is the ruling party and the party of choice for the supporters.
There is much talk about the people having their unemployment benefits end. They are going to end - it is just a matter of how long the unemployed are allowed to suck on the government teat.
Why is it ridiculous? If any had been elected then there would have been substantial differences. For example, when Hillary was a candidate she proposed garnishing wages to pay for HCR. From that I can extrapolate that any HCR her Administration passed would have contained a tax rather than a mandate. So there would be no case before SCOTUS. I also suspect she would have allowed the Bush tax rates to expire.
McCain would have made an agreement to stay in Iraq (at any cost), and would not have passed a stimulus. He would not have allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire but WOULD make a deal to extend the middle-class portion.
I won't go into the other two as they were not real contenders. However, in the case of both Hillary and McCain I believe they would have worked better with congress because they both had experience. Something that is lacking in the current incumbent.
~~~~~~~~~~"What is ailing "PUMPKIN-HEAD" with this Bill, this guy is Mud in 2012~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David words cannot descibe but you have given us an accurate picture for TeaPubs:
"...vituperative screeds of pure ignorance and hatred"
Thank you for your literary wit,
Priceless!!!
We now see who is a leader and who is just posturing.
Way cool obama! First we must pass the job bill now, your party graciously declined. Then you were willing to part it out, now the senate declined. Then you offerred up payroll tax credit extentions for a year, again the senate balked because you wanted to apply trickle down economics to it. The senate again balked. The senate then offerred up a two month extension and now you caved on a full year extension. Why? Hawaii will still be their.
Apparently you and the senate think that kicking the can down the road two months should be the new government norm. Sorry, we are getting tired of this tactic along with always blaming someone else.
The GOP "ZOO FANS" Voted these lowlife dirtbags in office, The T-Retard Skinheads are destroying our Economy and our Nation for the Kocheads.
Blocking the payroll tax cut extension is going to make the Tea Party even less liked then they already are. They currently have a very low positive rating by voters which is even lower than Congress's and has been dropping steadily. Since they are already heading for a death spiral, it's not surprising that they want to take the whole country down with them.
Not passing the tax cut extension will be hard on working class and middle class Americans, but if it highlights how out of touch the Tea Party is and reduces them to even more irrelevance, it may be worth the sacrifice.
The GOP in hindsight has to be kicking themselves for pandering to these kooks. Between trying to appease them and being locked in to unrealistic pledges, it'll be payback time for them too in the next election cycles.
2012 may prove to be a great year with Democrats winning the White House, some Governorships, and a few seats in the House and Senate. Things are definitely looking good, unless you're a Republican.
Mike, I clearly stated that the Democrats have changed but they have not moved to the left, for the most part they have moved to the right. On this point, I believe the two parties maintain a fairly consistent ideological distance and when the party driving the current political debate moves in one direction or another they drag the loyal opposition along with them to maintain that distance.
But that's just my theory on our political system and not the point I want you to discuss.
Joanna, you're still trying to sell your talking points, go back to the mudfight, that's obviously why you are here, whoever you may be or whatever your motives truly are, you're not interested in honest discussion so please don't let me interfere with your purpose.
NOJO, that's an interesting response, but as I pointed out to Mike I stated very clearly the the Democrats have changed as well. I believe they have been pulled to the right. Look at Joe Lieberman, he got pulled so far to the right he had to become an independent to keep his job. The Democrats HAVE changed, dramatically of the last 150 years. In the 1850's they were the party of slavery in the south. You don't see many true "Roosevelt" Democrats these days and as the nation's first Catholic President Kennedy has to stand out as unique. But the Democrats are not driving the discussion in Washington today. Maybe that's the problem, maybe not. But the question I'm asking is what led the nation to this political impasse? Not whose fault the impasse is today? Do you see the difference?
Dawn, Happy Holidays to you and yours. Thank you for your response, it contained some interesting points and I think you may be right that the GOP shift began with Nixon but probably not quite the way you suggest. But please allow me to point out, in the interest of fairness, that you too felt obligated to play the race card talking point. You know I love you, Dawn. We are simpatico. But the President's race isn't the reason we find ourselves in this political stand off today.
Oh sure, I agree, there are people who cannot accept Obama because of his race. Both Democrats and Republicans and even Independents. My mother, if she had lived to see a black President in the White House, would have been one of them, my Step-father as well and many of my other relatives would and do agree with them as well. Racism, sadly, does still exist. But that's not what has Washington in lock down.
Would anyone else care to take a turn at bat before I offer my theory? I'm very interested in what you think.
Please don't misunderstand me folks, I appreciate Joanna, Nojo, Dawn and Mike for their responses regardless of whether I think (my opinion) they are on point or not.
Please let me know what you think. I'll try to respond as honestly as I can to you and would appreciate your opinions. (Not talking points)
Clara helpfully leaves out the information about the one count that Gingrich was "convicted" on- not seeking tax advice on whether or not it was proper for him to teach a course at a non-profit.
The IRS investigated, and found out that it was, in fact proper- no laws were broken in spirit or letter.
I am amazed at the selective memories of the liberals- to say nothing of their selective morality. I, personally, have no interest in the personal lives of any politicians- none of my business. Liberals, however, far surpass the evangelical community in their zeal to uncover and report any transgression- from republicans, at least.
So, I have a question for all of those who are absolutely fixated on the private lives of politicians- how many of you would hop a plane, with the kids, and leave your husbands, (or wives), alone for Christmas?
Maybe there is some trouble in paradise. . .
Good Afternoon Everyone!
House republicans cornered??? You bet. And they look like a bunch of devious, dubious evil Grinches. ; )
May their political calculations fail and they all go home shamefaced. Really.
Joe in Albany - Wake up..... you're dreaming again, lol.
David Walker, John B, IR - Great posts today. ; )
Always happy to take your point of view in, skip,love you too! I think the President's race did bring forth the split in the Republican Party that we see today. If you remember, that brought forth the birthers, and a further shift to the right, but into looney land.
I look forward to what you think. I am particularly interested in Nixon, and how you see that!
JoAnna:
Most of the "legislation" Obama has passed(that will cost or save us money) hasn't even taken effect yet.
Example: the health care bill. Insurance Co's have raised rates using higher costs due to the HC bill as an excuse, when the bill hasn't even taken effect yet. Not to mention their raising of rates drastically in the past 10 years(before Obama was even elected). No, HC shouldn't be mandatory, or a fine levied against those who don't purchase it. Instead, those that do purchase it, should be given a tax break. You get more success with a carrot, than by using a stick.
You only highlight that Obama is not perfect, not that he isn't a more well rounded POTUS than any other candidate(2008 and 2012). Every POTUS learns on the job(unless they have prior experience as POTUS).
Most of Obama's policies are speculative, yes. We won't know the exact outcome of most of them, until they have time to take effect(to see if they succeed).
Obama seems to weigh what all sides want. He has given in to MANY of the demands by the GOP, to compromise. He is more to the center than Bush or Reagan.
To call Obama a leftist, is completely dishonest. Obama may have expressed some left leaning opinions, but the reality of being POTUS has taught him to stay more centered(which is how every POTUS should govern).
Why is it that the GOP are so against legislation that they proposed in the past, now that Obama is for it?
It showcases the "if Obama is for it, we're against it" agenda they are following(and many citizen detractors of Obama as well).
Trickle down is a proven failure, as shown by how most Americans income has stagnated since the Reagan years, while the cost of living and corporate(super wealthy individuals) earnings has gone up. The wealthy aren't letting enough "trickle down" back to those who are the base of their success.
Both sides(politicians) are working for their own pocketbooks, and for those who pay/bribe them with lobbying money. Anyone with sense knows this.
It's the GOP that claim family values and moral superiority, that come off as the biggest hypocrites. The majority of the GOP are always favoring legislation that helps the richest and biggest corporations/individuals, instead of helping most of the average Americans they are supposed to work for.
The SC allowing corporations to have the same rights to back politicains as individual voters do, highlights their deviousness and greed.
Giving the richest corporations more tax breaks has not proven that they create more jobs with those savings. the money they save goes directly to their owners and profit share holders.
Hit businesses with tariffs if they outsource, and make it more expensive for them to operate offshore and use offshore labor, and watch how they come running back to the US.
the corporate tax rate may be set at 35%-40% on paper, but those with open eyes know most don't even pay half of that rate(if anything at all).
It's not the corporate tax rate that makes the corporations leave and give the jobs to workers in other countries, it's GREED.
They were already paying some of the lowest rates in decades, yet their CEO's and owners just wanted to increase their profits some more(at the expense of the job economy of the US). If that isn't anti American, then what is?
Wait, no jo: You aren't interested in politicians personal lives but you post something about the Obama's giving it a salacious twist?
Wow.
@RI Mom,
The only reason you see all these stories on the Main Street Media is because this is where they can find people who support BHO and his policies. The media are but pupets for BHO. And in order to find people who share their worship for him and will praise all he does, they have to look to homeless, tent cities, motel kid, unemployed etc.
Because he does not appeal as well to the rest of America that does not have thier hand out and are willing to exchange their votes and adoration for programs that continue the handouts even at the expense of bankrupting the country.
I find it odd that 3 years in we are continuing to talk about extending unemployment again, but nothing has been done to spur growth in the private sector. In fact, it appears we have put more burden and uncertainty to their future that we are impeding any potential they have to hire and expand.
When you look to the main stream media, you get to to see the face of the voting block BHO is pandering to. It is a lot easier to win election when 50% of the voting block pays not Federal income tax or is in fact getting a handout. Sort of "bought" votes.
ABO 2012
Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell & "Orange-head" are REJECTS that sold their souls to the Rich. Their Dirty laundry goes back years with trashing this Country for Greed. They are supporting the 2% that is trying to take over this Nation. They will stop at nothing to get what they want. Wake up before its to late, act now to stop these mad clowns.
Oh yeah, its going to start now, they backed themselves into a corner and now they're going to have to try and bs everyone to get voted in again, slim chance. Makes me wonder what fuels these guys, maybe they can make so much money in one term, that being called traitors and having their families ridiculed because of their greedy antics is all worth it to them. It does take a no shame type of person to pull it off. You'd think they would know by now that the truth always comes out, or like I said, they are shameless. Boneher and Can'tor and McDonald all need to hit the road, amongst all the other ones too. I'm actually looking forward to this election, I just can't wait to see them all make their bye-bye speeches.
What a bunch of crooks there are in Congress. And neither party has any claim of innocence. And it’s all currently legal.
From today’s WSJ:
Inside Capitol, Investor Access Yields Rich Tips
BY BRODY MULLINS AND SUSAN PULLIAM
When Senate Democrats finally brokered a compromise over the proposed health-care law, a group of hedge funds were let in on the deal, learning details hours before a public announcement on Dec. 8, 2009.
The news was potentially worth millions of dollars to the investors, though none would publicly divulge how they used the information. They belong to a select group who pay for early, firsthand reports on Capitol Hill.
Seeking advance word of government decisions is part of a growing, lucrative—and legal— practice in Washington that employs a network of brokers, lobbyists and political insiders who arrange private meetings between hedge funds and officials, including lawmakers and their aides.
PS:
And JoAnna, your ASSumption that only those on the "Left", defend Obama against BS accusations from his critics, shows us EXACTLY where you operate from.
Even though I'm almost dead center(politically, with no party afiliation), I break right or left on whichever issues that I agree with.
I criticize Obama for not trying to repeal some of the Patriot Act, not including a single payer option in the HC bill, not ordering the DEA to back off of medical marijuana users/growers, giving in to the GOP to appease them, and for making Biden his VP.
I see merit in how he publicly admitted that the US is responsible for some misdeeds in the history of our foreign policy with other countries(critics call it apologising/bowing down, I call it honest).
I give Obama credit for pursuing OBL with every resource at our disposal(unlike the last WH Admin).
Obama has never played the "race card"(unlike Cain), even though it''s obvious that a good chunk of his critics are against him due to their own personal bigotry(not just racial).
Obama doesn't personally slander his critics or those against him. He just points out how their actions are incorrect. You won't see Obama bringing up the personal mistakes his opponent have made, just the ones that pertain to whether they did their jobs effectively(or not). That shows integrity/class/
Is he perfect? Of course not. The best POTUS? I doubt it.
He still deserves more respect than many of you are willing to give him.
Keck (#1.49) Bi-partisan? There has not been ONE bi-partisan so-called jobs bill come out of the House. Having 2 to 10 Democrats vote for something doesn’t make it bi-partisan. However, having 90% of the Senate vote for something IS bi-partisan.
None of the so-called jobs bills that have come out of the House have been shown to have the potential to create ANY jobs according to independent analysis.
Anyone can see what has happened over time. Republicans have lost their honor. It simply does not reside in their leadership anymore. This is the ROOT of the problem. Democrats are not much better. When I see these sheep posting on here in their defense, I feel continued shame for this country. How can people allow themselves to be polarized to this point of ignorance and stupidity?
What an idiot!
Those jobs are sitting in the Senate (in the form of dozens of House Bills that are ) waiting for that loser Harry Reid to bring them to a vote... which he will never do!
Senate Dems - America's worst enemy!
That some of you honestly believe that it would have been different/better for us right now if McCain/Hilary/Giulani/Romney were the ones in the WH right now, is RIDICULOUS.
Why is it ridiculous? If any had been elected then there would have been substantial differences. For example, when Hillary was a candidate she proposed garnishing wages to pay for HCR. From that I can extrapolate that any HCR her Administration passed would have contained a tax rather than a mandate. So there would be no case before SCOTUS. I also suspect she would have allowed the Bush tax rates to expire.
McCain would have made an agreement to stay in Iraq (at any cost), and would not have passed a stimulus. He would not have allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire but WOULD make a deal to extend the middle-class portion.
I won't go into the other two as they were not real contenders. However, in the case of both Hillary and McCain I believe they would have worked better with congress because they both had experience. Something that is lacking in the current incumbent.
I should have clarified my statement:
No matter who would have been elected POTUS in 2008, our economy would more than likely still be in the same shape, if not worse.
The only progress that might have been made, is if the GOP decided to work with another POTUS, because he/she wasn't Obama(or a Dem).
The GOP blocking Obama(out of personal bigotry or spite for losing the WH), is one of the PRIMARY reasons for very little progress being made to help our economy.
The greed of those running the wealthiest corporations(not paying a fair share back to the country that allowed them to succeed/profit) is another. But then, they've never been ones to police themselves or care much about average Americans. They just want more consumers and profit shares, while cutting their overhead costs(to the detriment of American workers).
skip Nicholson, your assertion that Democrats have moved right is laughable. Look at who they've chosen to be their leaders. Do you actually think Obama is right of Clinton, or Johnson, or JFK??? Do you actually believe that Pelosi is right of Tip O'Neil, or Sam Rayburn, or Jim Wright??? Do you actually believe that Harry Reid is right of Robert Byrd, Mike Mansfield, or Lyndon Johnson??? If you believe any of that, you're delusional.
Skip, Joe Lieberman had a 90% Democratic voting record not exactly leaning right.
Well, now the collapseaholics have collapsed the first comment on this thread and that drags the rest of the comments down with it.
A couple of weeks ago I suggested to the moderators of this vine that they change the system and NOT allow the readers and commentators to collapse each other. Give them three choices, "Like", "Dislike" and "Ignore". Only the moderators could collapse comments for clear violations of the code. Nobody responded to me including the moderators and so here we sit. More dysfunction and no solutions.
For anyone who is interested. I believe we began to see the subtle shift in the GOP with the controversy over the Viet Nam war and it's protesters. The "America Love it or Leave it" crowd and the "Hell no we won't go" protesters burning their draft cards and running off to Canada caused a schism in America that has never healed.
Then came Watergate and Nixon, the standard bearer for the "silent majority" and the blame for what happened to Nixon was misplaced on the "liberal media" instead of squarely on Nixon's shoulders as it should have been. My first wife and I had some bitter arguments over Watergate. She was a staunch Republican from a staunch Republican family and she would respond to the news stories about Watergate, etc by saying "Why don't they just leave him alone? He's the President!" I think there was a great many more people in the US that felt exactly like Colleen did at the time and Watergate deepened the schism in America. Ford, Carter, they were both doomed because we had begun the slippery slide down the slope that would eventually lead us here.
Then came Ronald Reagan, the "Great Communicator." Viewed by the standards of today's GOP Reagan was a moderate and a poseur. But he became a bigger than life myth and started the "Reagan Revolution" in the GOP. Many a Republican still proudly refer to themselves as "Reagan Republicans" when, in fact, many of his policies on immigration, taxing the rich, and the expansion of the Federal Government are anathema to today's GOP.
I think the GOP of Reagan's day had become very thin-skinned. They didn't like being asked "impertinent" questions by the "eastern liberal media" establishment that had brought down Nixon. Never mind that Nixon had lied, destroyed evidence and authorized the commission of crimes and cover-ups. It was all the "liberal media's" fault.
I think Reagan believed the conservative movement needed a voice of it's own, one whose message would be pure and unclouded by the media elites. But this began to sound a bit like propaganda and how would they get around the Fairness Doctrine in broadcasting? That little inconvenience that clearly stated that the nation's airwaves belonged to the American people and should not be used for political purposes without a clear declaration of who paid for the time or that the message was of a particular political stripe. And this new "Conservative" voice would go bankrupt if it had to give equal time to every "left wing crackpot" who demanded it. Ironically, the Fairness Doctrine was put in place to silence the left and prevent the media from being used to promote communism. Funny how things turn out.
So Reagan set aside the Fairness Doctrine and because of that single act, today we have Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and hundreds of imitators who have taken over AM radio and now fill the airwaves with propaganda with no fear of having to give equal time to those of opposing views. "Conservative Radio and Television" are the propaganda arms of the GOP and they have had their effect.
Now, after a quarter century of unfettered propaganda the staid old GOP is not conservative enough for some people. The GOP have sown the wind and they have reaped the whirlwind in the form of THE TEA PARTY.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a historian, in the sense that I do not have a college degree in history. I am not a sociologist and or deep thinking political analyst. I am just an average American citizen who cannot understand what is happening in this country. I was born in 1950. I was, as a child, a big fan of Ike and Abe. I started out in this life to be a Republican. I lived through the turbulent sixties, my views changed, I became a war protester. Because of Watergate, I became a reporter. When my journalism career ended I entered politics, not as a candidate but as a Campaign Manager and strategist for a pair of GOP candidates. One, a traditional "Ike" Republican and the other a member of the new GOP, the so-called "Reagan Republicans." I've experienced the change and seen it from the inside and I believe we are where we are today with the Washington grid-lock and the lack of statesmanship, because we have full-time, unfettered right wing broadcast propaganda.
The Tea Party isn't the child of the Koch brothers or Dick Armey or even Ron Paul. It is the bastard child of Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdoch thanks to the machinations of Ronald Reagan.
Until we silence the "nattering nabobs" of conservative broadcasting things are only going to get worse and worse. There can be no healing, no reason, no compromise with the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News on the air 24/7/365.
That's a fact. That's the unvarnished truth. Just look what happened when I asked folks to set aside their differences and discuss this with me. I was called ingenuous and bombarded with talking points.
I'm not suggesting that Limbaugh be silenced or that his opinions be stifled. No, far from it. I just believe they should not be broadcast on the people's airwaves without a clear declaration that they are the "opinions" of an "entertainer" and should NOT be confused with fact or news. The same for FOX and all the rest. Limbaugh, Coulter, etc can still write, give speeches, sell CD's expressing their opinions, but they do not get to use the public airwaves to promote their lies and deceptions.
And let's face it folks, that what they are, lies and deceptions that sadly a big portion of our society accepts as facts and repeats daily on this and other discussion threads and elsewhere.
Speaker Boehner has lost control of his party and he will never regain control of his party until the bastard children of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter are removed from the public airwaves and THEIR offspring are removed from office and more reasonable and responsible men and women take their places.
That's what I think has happened to the Republican Party, so help me God. And if we don't do something to silence the propaganda arm of the GOP that dominates our nation's airwaves and misdirects honest discussion, then we are surely doomed. Things are only going to get worse.
So, I'm calling for all real Americans from the right and the left and those of us in the middle, to stand up and be counted. Let's send these Tea Party fools back to their old jobs and replace them with true patriots. Men and Women who know the meaning of the word "compromise", statesmen and women who can put the country first, before their ideology.
Let's make Kantor and all the others ONE TERM WONDERS, let's make them a footnote in American history and not the authors of our future. It's time to take America back and return it to it's rightful place as that great shining city on the hill and not some joke told by foul-mouthed comedians on HBO.
As always I end with a clear statement of MY political position.....
Obama/Biden 2012
David Walker - your first comment is quite impressive, accurate, insightful, thoughtful, all around a pleasure to read, and it restores my faith in the American mind. Thank you, thank you so much.
Your next comment, being that there is "absolutely nothing that precludes someone of a conservative bent from having a liberal mind", there is a chance this may not be true. I realize this article ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44084236/ns/health-behavior/t/rich-are-different-not-good-way-studies-suggest/#.TvDcC9VozLk ) is about the rich, vs. non rich, the haves and have nots, but I don't think it is a stretch to think it applies here.
Hey David; nice post. Wonder why your wasting your time commenting here (no offense to everybody else) when you could be a politics or philosophy professor at some big college. I don't know how the tea-tards can go to sleep knowing that they are holding up Congress AND the nation. I don't know about the Dems retaking the Congress in 2012, however. After what the American voters did in 2010 I don't have that much faith in the average voter. I hope they make the right decision; if not, then God help us all. David; could you look at this plan to help America. I'd love to see some feedback.
1. Deficit Reduction Package over 12 years:
2. Economic Plan (paid for by a 4% surtax on people who make over $1 million).
3. Reform Government.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Mike and Lee
and again you nitpick to avoid the discussion. I'm thinking you must be trolls or foreign provacateurs. You're certainly not real Americans because all the real Americans want to find solutions to this nation's gridlock. Solutions that won't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Why don't you fellows join Joanna and Nojo at the mud wrestling pit since that's apparently why you come here.
Obama/Biden 2012
Kuatomonk:
That's a very interesting article. F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote, "Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me."
Here's another study. Students chose from one of two scenarios. In one, they earned $100,000, while their friend earned $200,000. In the other, they earned $50,000, while their friend earned $25,000. The majority chose the second scenario; if memory serves, by a margin of 2 to 1.
As you note, wealth is probably not too terribly relevant to the point. My definition of the liberal mind can fairly easily be contrasted with a conservative mind this way. The liberal mind is more receptive to new information and is more likely to try new solutions. The conservative mind is more reserved, hesitant and provides a very healthy check on the liberal. Mind you now, that's the way I see it, not necessarily the way Noah Webster would define the difference.
We are well-served when we have both liberal and conservative minds conversing civilly as they compare, contrast, and work to reach a desirable conclusion. Compromise is not a necessity. Some times one side really does have it right and the other is dead wrong. However, I believe most often, the truth lies somewhere in between.
We don't have much time to find that common ground and to do that we simply must dismiss extremists out of hand.
Skip, If you are referring to me as not an American or a troll perhaps you can give me an example of what I've said that isn't true,BTW I served 4 years in the Navy during the Vietnam Conflict so please feel free to question my patriotism. Radio talk shows are open to both Republican and Liberal speakers, if Liberals fail to have support from the community that's their problem. Apparently you come here to insult opposing views
Skip, If you are referring to me as not an American or a troll perhaps you can give me an example of what I've said that isn't true,BTW I served 4 years in the Navy during the Vietnam Conflict so please feel free to question my patriotism. Radio talk shows are open to both Republican and Liberal speakers, if Liberals fail to have support from the community that's their problem. Apparently you come here to insult opposing views
Seriously? When have Republicans been anything but a bunch of hypocrites, from reneging on agreements during Dubya not to abuse the filibuster, and then saying parliamentary procedure like "conferencing" has been abused, as if the filibuster is ever actually carried out (if only it was), and on and on.
As for the usual right-wing posts, stop with the fallacious question about a two-month measure. This is a straw-man "gotcha" tactic that shows what transparent simpletons you are. Everyone with half a brain knows the stop-gap is now necessary thanks to Teapublican obstructionist games.
Teapublicans don't know when to accept victory. They had most of what they wanted yet again (thus the high-five between McConnell and Boehner). They did not get to rape the middle class with job cuts, wage freezes, and slashes to UE, but they did get the pipeline attached, they did get funding from Freddie/Fannie, etc. instead of a surtax on income over a million, and a sh!t load of other despicable things.
Now the Teabag minority in the House is destroying the GOP yet again with their crazy talk demands. These ultra conservative douche-bags deserve to be in a corner -- In fact they should go into "time out" to think about the traitors of democracy that they are. They can run but they can't hide. It's too late. We already know who and what they are.
Throw the Teapublicans out!
!Interesting perpective,skip. I hadn't thought about the Fairness Doctrine. Will have to give that some thought
That was very insightful, skip. We really screwed up when we let the Fairness Doctrine get repealed. I have an interesting site where you might find some more interesting info.
http://governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=24
President Obama and Dems passed a tax break for the middle class as part of the stimulus, which likewise is not permanent, but is so tiny as to be of little significance. If the Dems could have allowed the Bush tax cuts for the rich to expire but keep the lower rates for the middle class, that was the better answer. But of course they were blackmailed by Teapublicans into extension of cuts for the rich. What Dems don't want to do is replace funding for Social Security permanently. For the time being, this is just the only break for the middle class they can push.
Hopefully voters will throw out the Teapublicans in 2012 so we can have a cooperative congress that will work with the President to improve conditions. Still, it is going to take more than four years to correct the damage done by the GOP/TP to the middle class. At this point we can't over-correct enough, but at minimum we MUST require the rich and corporations to start paying their fair share.
What voters want to hear is how politicians intend to restore the American Dream, and the Teapublicans have completely failed on this issue once again. New polls show voters have more faith in the president than the GOP/TP on taxes, his approval overall is going up, even when the economy is this bad. That's because of income disparity, and clear obstructionism by Teapublicans on behalf of the 1%.
skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City -- Thanks for bringing up the Fairness Doctrine again. In addition to Reagan dismantling this, Gingrich and FOX Noise/Hate Radio in the 1990s are responsible for the divisiveness (name calling, using religious wedge issues, gerrymandering, etc.) that by the time of the rush into the Iraq War, polarization had hit an all-time high. Like Glass-Steagall and other safeguards destroyed by Republicans, jounalistic standards MUST be brought back if our nation is to have any hope of healing.
The person avoiding a real discussion is the person who won't admit fault on their side...in fact completely denies it. It's the person who starts by saying "Please, stop the name-calling and the baiting of each other and think about what I am asking you", then turns right around and calls people un-American trolls for disagreeing with you and pointing out your argument's shortcomings.
I've shown that the current Democratic leadership has moved as far left over the past 25+ years as Republicans have moved right. For you to deny this just shows how far you'll contort yourself to avoid the discussion you purport to seek. Your failure to look into the mirror shows you have no desire to find a real solution, only policy positions that meet your leftist mindset.
@Fiesty: "Boehner can't stay sober long enough to put his finger on the pulse!" ... is it that or has he simply drank too much Tea at the Party? Actually, the House acts like they've been infused with it.
At this point, the GOP needs to wake up and smell the coffee (not the tea): the vast majority of Americans are not keeping score on which party or faction is wining the ideology battles in DC. We all get that we have a polarized, divided government and that there are not easy answers. But if any group is going to allow the poor and middle class to have a less Merry Christmas than they already are, that particular group can expect to find a big lump of something in their election stocking next November - and it ain't going to be coal. Some people in both parties have figured that out; if I was John Boehner (and right now I'm glad I'm not), I'd be more worried about keeping my seat than keeping my speakership. But what do I know - I'm just a dumb, taxpayer that votes in every election.
It really doesn't matter if the public knows who they are -- unless your purpose is to play blame-game politics -- because the reality is that the "two-month plan" just won't work. Whether the public knows who they are doesn't change this fact.
Most of the 150 million working Americans get a payroll check. Contrary to your apparent belief, in almost all cases the taxes on their checks are not figured out manually by millions of accountants hoveled away in cubes somewhere using slide rules and books. That is absolutely not what happens. What happens is that this new thing called software is used to deduct the correct amount of taxes for these 100+ million workers. And if the software won't work, like the people who write it say it won't for the "two-month plan"...well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you'll have 100+ million people who suddenly do care.
David Walker, liberal/conservative political ideologies and a liberal/conservative openness to new information are two separate and distinct personal attributes. That needs to be made clear in your statements.
Yes, a person with a more conservative political ideology can have a liberal openness to new and competing information. This is nothing new. In fact more than one university study has show that self-identified conservatives on average get their news and opinion from a wider spectrum of politically ideological media sources showing a more "liberal" openness to new and competing views. Anecdotally you can see this by the number of conservative commenters here on MSNBC.com's forums than there are liberals present on Fox.com's forums.
This putting Republicans in moderate districts up for re-election in a real pickle. They have to buck the party line and support the tax cuts extension under any deal or they will probably not win re-election but doing so could cut off party support they will need to win when the GOP brand has become so tarnished. Those seats could easily go back to the Democrats and more in the next election cycles if this is the new status quo for the GOP.
My oh my! All of the right wing-nuts keep posting that it is the evil media, the REPUBLICAN Senators, the majority of the Republicans in the House, and the liberals who are wrong about being 'cornered' and extending the payroll tax cuts for two months. Perhaps they should remember that when you are the only one saying you are the sane person and everyone else is insane, there is a very good probability you are the person who needs mental help. I have two words for these mentally challanged folks. Seek HELP!
David Walker, post # 1.6 is the clearest, most concise and accurate description of the current Tea Party/Republican party mindset I have ever read. My favorite post ever on Newsvine, David.
I agree with Rick's point about David Walker's post in this thread; it made me wonder if some strife we feel is partially because the rate of change in society and technology is accelerating; and our natural give - and - take can't take place fast enough to achieve compromise (and acceptance) before we are onto the next sea change. It was a good way of putting it David.
Careful David, you're sounding awfully Taoist
So is written yet another chapter in the most amazing political tragedy of our time...the amazing, continuing failure of House Speaker John Boehner. Once again he's made promises he cant keep, finding himself incapable of delivering the votes from his own caucus to back up the bipartisan Senate vote to continue the current withholding tax break for ordinary Americans. He's embarrassed himself, he's embarrassed his colleagues in the Senate, he's embarrassed his party. Again.
It's hard to imagine how that's possible. House Republicans were involved in negotiations from the very beginning. It puts Republicans in the position of voting against their holy grail...tax cuts. They're tax cuts for average citizens so they aren't nearly as important as tax cuts for the wealthy elites, but they're tax cuts nonetheless.
It contains a measure specifically targeted at the major funders of the Conservative Movement, the Koch brothers. Approval of the Keystone Pipeline would be very helpful in their quest to move up the list of World's Wealthiest, and Republicans have done everything in their power to force approval of this project even over the opposition of people who have to drink the water in Conservative strongholds like Nebraska.
It isn't entirely his fault, of course. By aggressively pandering to the base while ignoring the needs of average Americans for the last 3 decades Republicans have been left with the need to cobble together a dysfunctional majority consisting almost exclusively of John Birchers, Ayn Rand fantasists, those who believe in Social Darwinism but not Evolution, and a substantial component of racists. Anyone who disagrees with that latter point feel free to let us know which Conservative leaders have called for the immediate arrest of Jules Manson.
But ultimately John Boehner is the one responsible for delivering votes in Congress. He can't do it.
Nancy Pelosi never had this problem. She was a great Speaker, unlike John Boehner, who takes his orders from the Tea Bagger bosses.
Obama/Biden 2012
Wow, John B--what a great analysis. I can almost feel sorry for Speaker Boehner---to have aspired to such an august position as Speaker of the House, attain it and then be such a failure because of the actions of his own party--what a disappointment for him. Sadly, though, his failure of leadership has hurt the American people even more.
John B.,
Excellent post. Particularly liked the above. These guys are off the deep end and furiously treading water.
John B
Two thumbs up, plus every other digit! Great job.
John B, terrific post.
I heard last night that Speaker Boehner is the one who requested Senate republicans to negotiate the legislation first; now he throws the 39 GOP senators who voted for it under the bus. Boehner is pathetic in addition to being a yellow-bellied sap sucker.
Good to see you JohnB!
As always, you scored a touchdown!
John B:
Great post. I have to add a bit more. Yes, John Boehner is in over his head, but there is another reason to which you allude, but do not spell out.
Boehner, like so many of other Republicans, has been in the House for many years. These liars have been on the government dole for decades: Kyl, McConnell, Boehner. Eric Cantor (R - Punk) has virtually no experience outside of government. The list is quite long. Democrats are not much better.
To imagine that Washington, D.C. has cultivated anything more than a get-along, go-along mentality is the stuff of fantasy. Yes, they cultivate the appearance of conflict. The Republicans are the opposite of Democrats, right? Yet the budget increases year after year. Defense budgets grow massively year after year. Red ink flows year after year. Both parties have been thoroughly corrupted by Big Money.
What has changed is the injection of the completely ignorant Tea Party fanatics who have no clue whatsoever in governance. They themselves cannot be governed, as John Boehner has learned, and he cannot deliver those votes.
The Republicans have to go, and if we can get Dems in office, we absolutely must make them tow the line. That's OUR job.
Sure, the Tea Party is responsible for the $15 trillion debt, even though they only showed up 2 years ago.
David here is for the status quo. He loves that Congress spends, spends, and spends even more. And now someone shows up saying enough is enough, we need to get our spending in line with our revenues. And to the Liberals, those people are the enemy. Sanity is not what the Liberals possess.
And it's "toe the line" David. Do try and keep up and sound a little intelligent.
Here's a little Democrat lie for you to chew on David:
4 years of Pelosi in the Speakers chair produced $5 trillion in new debt.
JoAnna, you are reaching a point of denial that is dangerous for your health. These are stale and outmoded criticisms of Obama that did not wash yesterday and do not wash today. My unsolicited advice is to get a new script. The debt is a product of neo-con, big business, profit for the rich policy since Reagan. If you cannot get your head wrapped around that reality, please refrain from boring us with your diatribe about Obama. He is going to be your president for another 5 years, get over it. The right wing party of the rich is over, the music has stopped.
Joe in Albany - With all the lefty liberal BS whining about Republican’s trying to “destroy the middle class in order to serve their 1% masters” (LMAO!!!!), why are Harry Reid and the majority Senate Dems refusing to interrupt their Christmas vacation in order to do the right thing for America’s middle class??
____
Joe are you being honest? The payroll tax cut was a temporary one year deal, besides aren't you as a fiscal conservative concerned about the decreased funding of social security? As a fiscal conservative wouldn't you know that the payroll tax cuts work against funding the SS entitlement? I always hear how the GOP decry the dwindling of the Social Security fund. At least some GOP posters have been more sincere about this issue.
To everyone else...
So what happens now? Boehner can't control his caucus. He probably promised to go along with the Senate GOP and Senate Dems but the Tea Party all of a sudden wants to push the competing bills to conference. That is within their rights. Typically competing bills would be decided in committee and differences changed and an amended bill will be presented for passage. Obviously the GOP TP will offer no compromise. So why should the democrats go to conference for the payroll tax cuts.
It sounds silly and I'll probably be pounded, but the best thing to do is for the democrats to stand strong and don't play their game. Don't come back at the beck and call of the Tea Party and extend the tax cuts for a year. Let the pay roll tax cuts expire like they were meant to. The Democrats and Obama will lose more confidence and will be seen as weaker if they continue to let the 50 to 60 TPartiers control them.
I admit, it will be hard to lose the payroll tax cut for some. But, it was always supposed to be temporary. I'll admit it I'm not happy or saying I told you so, but they should have been left to expire in lieu of giving false hope that they would continue. I'm sorry, but the GOP will not give Obama any, any, any victory. It is not fair, it is politics. I'm not happy but the TP outmanuevered everyone.
Bite the bullet, the democrats lost this battle. Forget the payroll tax cuts and fight for the unemployment insurance. If necessary go to conference and drop the tax cuts and push umemployment insurance.
There is no evidence the Speaker cannot control his caucus. There will be a vote in the House on the measures (payroll tax holiday and Keystone, both originally Democratic issues btw) and a bill will be passed. The legislation will go to a House/Senate conference committee where the differences are worked out, and another vote is taken on the negotiated bill. That's how it works in Congress. That is a reasonable outcome for the bill. Obama will get his one year extension on the payroll tax holiday, and the GOP will get Keystone. A win-win, at least politically, for each party.
JoAnna Smith - I will not speak for Mr. Walker, however, on many occasions I have seen him call for reduced spending and increased taxes. I've seen him mention that for things to improve everyone needs to give a little and all partisans need to be angry with legistlation to put us on the right path.
Regarding our views on how Congress works, we've talked about this before, in fact I will talk to anyone but the vast majority of Democrats and Republicans officials are more interested in being re-elected then to do what is neccessary to help the people. Yes the economy needs to improve but we can't do it on the backs of the middle class. We can't bring ourselves out of our economic doldrums by cutting all regulations and nonchalantly overlooking the environmental impacts that big business could do if left to a completely market based free for all.
Smiff:
Of course you could actually check your facts - a new concept for you. "Tow the line" and "toe the line" both have meaning within their proper context. I'll stand behind what I wrote.
tex2c2: JAS1 is doing her homework. Apparently liberals (especially far left) have a deficiency in their retinas that cause print to fade out when they read anything that approaches the truth.
The middle class will feel the brunt of any tax increases and/or cuts in benefits - There are just not enough of the "rich" to cover the load.
You do realize that taxes will increase for all in 2013. The top-tier, like all others, will lose the SS payroll tax holiday cut, the Bush/Obama tax cuts, and will get another 3%+ kicker to pay for Obamacare. That gets the so called rich to about a 43% tax rate with lower tax brackets increasing about the same. There will be pain, for all, and still no reduction in the deficit.
Regulations are increasing at an ever increasing rate. That won't produce any jobs, and in fact will continue the trend for jobs going overseas, or eliminated. Obama has made it clear he is beholden to the Greens from everything from oil drilling to Keystone. Obama has made clear he will increase regulations for Wall Street, with the appropriate loop-holes for places like MF Global.
And Mr. Walker, glad to see you're reading me again. Enjoy.
John B. there are six alternate routes for the XL pipeline at least be a little honest. Speaking of racist I like the views of your OWS on the Jews ,you hypocrite.
tex2c2
GREAT POST
Bottom line here is that the teapubs are going to take the brunt of the blame for the increase in taxes. There are a lot of attempts to spin it, but everybody who is watching knows that if they really wanted this payroll tax cut extension to go through they would do it, but since this is about the MIDDLE class they want to throw it under the bus. They won't accept the modest increase on incomes over 1 mil to pay for it, they want it all on the backs of the middle. I watch this dumbfounded that the republicans are so bent on self destruction. (And what does a fricken pipeline have to do with tax policy?)
JoAnna - You do realize that taxes will increase for all in 2013. The top-tier, like all others, will lose the SS payroll tax holiday cut, the Bush/Obama tax cuts... There will be pain, for all, and still no reduction in the deficit.
Tax cuts will increase on everyone in 2012 if both parties do nothing. I am all for the Bush/Obama Tax cuts to expire. All of them. I know that the tax the rich plans echoed by some of the left will not be sufficient. That said why wouldn't the increased taxes help reduce the deficit?
Besides the typical response that they will only spend more, perhaps they would actually use the additional funds to reduce the deficit.
I keep reading comments about the payroll tax cuts short-changing the social security fund. Yes, they do, except what seems to be ignored is that democrats proposed a small sur-tax on millionaires to replenish the money to the Trust which republicans cannot do because they pledged their allegiance to Grover. The one-year temporary cuts last year would have less of an impact on the Social Security Trust than the millions of lost jobs has had; the overall positive impact on the economy which has helped add jobs means more people contributing to the Trust again. It also ignores that the payroll tax cut was the only one the GOP would agree to last year. The GOP loves tax cuts just not for the working people or rather I should say, they oppose them because President Obama supports them.
Smiff, you do realize that the top tier you mention makes most of their money on investments, capital gains including bonus money and not wages so the impact on them is minimal? Not to mention, the richest 1% wouldn't notice the extra money or the increase in taxes because it simply is a drop in the bucket for them.
I knew as soon as they extended the vote into today that Boehner didn't have the vote for the Republicants to do what he wanted. Boehner is the worst Speaker ever!
Because spending will increase. Mostly for ObamaCare.
keystone has nothing to do with payroll taxes and should not even be a part of this bill vote on keystone seperately on it's own merits or faults
Hi Jody - Yes I remember that the democrats wanted to offset the SS paycuts with the millionaires surtax. But being realistic, they would have needed 60 votes in the Senate and 51% of the House to pass it. I really don't think that it would have happened.
Yes, as people are employed they contribute to the SS trust fund. Yes, we have had 11 or so months of continued positive growth, people point immediately to the extension of the Bush tax cuts but can we honestly say that they are being hired because of tax cuts? I'm not sure. The Bush tax cuts seem to follow a trickle down theory, something I don't buy into. As most on the liberal side claim big business are sitting on trillions, getting tax cuts and hiring only a minimal amount of people.
The payroll tax cuts was a temporary idea, an apparent opportunity for Obama and Dems to agree with a Republican talking point. I understand that these tax cuts are a bit different because they help people by an extra $75 to $80 a month. But the Dems should know by now that the GOP will most of the times agree to disagree.
At this point it places the Democrats in a hard position will they need to kow tow to the TP and extend the SS cuts for 1 year, allow for an immediate decision on the XL pipeline through environmentally sensitive lands. All of those choices will paint the Dems in a bad light if they do the fiscally and environmentally responsible things.
I often agree with you Jody, but at this point, the democrats have to fight for something that not even the Republicans can ignore - unemployment insurance extensions.
The green base would be happy if Obama goes along with states rights and respects (Nebraska's) request to detour the pipeline with more study. The fiscally minded, both Dem and Rep are happy that the SS fund begins to be replinshed.
The general public who don't follow politics and all its intricacies will be happy that unemployment insurance is extended. As a partisan, I think Obama could use this fiasco as another example of a "do nothing Congress". He can say, I wanted the SS cuts extended but the GOP wanted to tie them to the pipeline and jeopardize the environment.
Why would the senate extend the cuts for only 2 months? That doesn't make sense. I agree with the house, extend the tax cuts for another year! Duh!
Now this article made me laugh until I remembered that this is a liberal site, owned by MSNBC, who has a liberal agenda to see this President re-elected.
This article is only the perception of the liberal view, not the views of all.
you are all pathetic - same 100 idiots posting comments to an idiot leftwing loon writer - fair and balanced haha -never. enjoy your record breaking failure as a pres as long as you want. i have always worked hard and will always have work - you idiots sit here and ignore the reality of how bad things will get if your pres is re-elected. tell me one single plan that your pres is putting forward to change the path of destruction we are on????? anyone ???? you spend all of your time reacting to lib blogs pointing fingers at someones personal life - yet non of us know anything about our pres and what he did before he was 30 - you are all nut jobs. ask yourselves this ???? what will happen to this country when the healthcare bill is fully implemented???? no jobs ever nursing homes all over the country will be socialized - my wife is the director of finance at a facility that is ranked 5th in the country - they are going broke and are just starting to lay people off - something that has never ever been done in 40 years - because the first face of medicare cuts are being implemented. you are all puppets and sooooooo friikkiing stupid - good luck to you an merry christmas
winemaker-4308406,
No it's not Faux News. Tune there for that.
I think it sums up the current state of affairs nicely:
NewtISaPIG,
You prove my point!I don't need to listen to FOX News to formulate my own opinions, but I can understand how you must continue to rah-rah the failures of Obama.
I just find it hilarious (well, it would be funny if it wasn't screwing 3/4 of the country) that the Republicans are now all worried about paying for tax cuts or new spending. Really? Now you care!! Where were they when Bush was passing his tax cuts...unpaid for. Where were they when they passed Medicare part D...unpaid for. 2 wars...unpaid for. They have become a complete joke. I do not understand how there can be anyone in this country (outside of the 1/2 of 1 percent) who would actually be against a tax increase on income above $1 million. For that matter, Obama was willing to sign off on a deficit reduction bill of $4 Trillion including spending cuts but it included the removal of tax LOOPHOLES...not even a tax increase! I was a lifelong Republican until the 2nd term of Bush (sorry, i'm a slow learner) but with all the complete hypocrisy coming out of that party, I just cannot support them. It just makes me want to throw up. They have 100% sold out to big business and the "1%" yet there are still people in the bottom 50% who support them. Amazing. Unfortunately, democrats are only marginally better but at least I feel as though they at least give a crap about there fellow Americans.
The payroll tax cut is a 2% reduction of the Social Security witholding for 2011. As long as this reduction stays in place, the amount of tax funds feeding into the Social Security account is less. This is problematic in view that the increase in DI in 2011 has put the account into the red for 2012.
Meanwhile the current administration raided Social Security for $500B and the Account really lays full of "Treasuries" which are pieces of paper supposedly equal to money. The fact is the money is invested in bailouts supposedly paid back to some extent. I haven't seen the negative aspect of the account improve however as a result of the reported 'pay backs'.
@John B, Des Moines, IA - #2 - The current quarrel is not between Democrats and Republicans. The argument is between Senate Republicans and House Republicans. Mitch McConnell wants the GOP to regain control of the Senate - that is the basis of the Senate bill compromise. The negotiations were between McConnell and Boehner. Apparently Boehner made commitments he could not keep - just as he did during the debt ceiling debate last summer. Apparently that explains why the House has accomplished nothing, so far.
The House has become so dysfunctional that even Republicans cannot work with it. Even if the Republicans regain control of the Senate - the Senate is not going to play second fiddle to House Republicans. McConnell will refuse to be the 'loyal lapdog' of Boehner or the House.
Putting the Republicans back in charge of government will not change anything until the lunatic fringe is removed from the House. The government cannot continue to lurch from one fiasco to another.
ME-Sane - please point to me a policy put forth by the Republicans that will help the country move forward and out of the current path. They are great at bashing and grinding Congress to a halt saying no to anything and everything completely selling out their constituents in the name of politics yet I don't see any meaningful thoughts and ideas to solve anything. You quickly forget how Bush ran this country for 8 years like a complete free-spending liberal with tax cuts all around. That's a great recipe. Let's increase spending while decreasing revenue. And you call him a Republican? What a pathetic joke.
I'm not completely sold on Obama but it sure seems to me that he was willing to compromise on a lot of things to try and get the deficit spending bill passed, the payroll tax cut passed, the healthcare reform passed to name 3 big ones. But yet the R's flat out refused to give an inch on anything. Instead, they blame Obama for wanting a measly tax hike on multi-millionaire earners. Obama should have just let the Bush tax cuts expire. It was far enough away from election season he could have gotten by w/ it. But no, he tried to negotiate a deal where only the top tax rate would increase while leaving the middle class alone. Wow, actually trying to take care of the majority.
More proof of the liberal bias of media and the empty skulls that buy into the propaganda. This is only a "corner" if the lens through which you look at things is political. Boehner is standing up for a real solution, not a political solution that simply extends the conversation a couple more months where we get to do it all over again. Meanwhile, businesses will not have the confidence they need to make plans for the year.
It's clearer all the time that the ideological dems put party over country in their quest for power and control. It's never about real solutions for Americans, its about strategic maneuvering that gives them the political upper hand.
Well put.
The GOP nomination is still Romney's to lose, as it has been all along.
As to John Boehner, one word says it all: bonehead. Make that TWO words: incompetent bonehead.
It looks like they finally painted themself into a corner where even good bs won't even get them out. Oh well you'd think they'd know by now, the truth always comes out. Then again do they make so much money during one term that all the shame their families have to endure after they make fools out of themselves worth it? Then again if they are shameless then their children are too. Myself, I can't wait for the elections now, I can't wait to see Boneher and Can'tor and McDonald and the rest of them make their bye-bye speeches. No more kissing up for them now, people will treat them now like the crooks they are, but then again if your shameless like they are, it might not even affect them?
MrBoz, I see you favor the Newtonian brand of spin. Why what you described is none other than the Tea Party itself:
Stop legislating against the 99% you unpatriotic Teatards!! The country comes first, not your obsession with getting rid of Obama!!!!!
Don't you just luv it when these unpatriotic Teapublicans root against every semblance of good news about the economy?? The day of reckoning is coming!!!!
MrBoz - funny, since you exactly described the Republican mantra. Though, keep believing otherwise in your quest to sack Obama at any cost.
MAIN STREET MEDIA gets it!
While GOP watches FOX...the MAIN STREET MEDIA reports on
the homeless,
the foreclosed,
the tent cities,
the motel kids,
the unemployed,
the poverty,
the food banks,
the lines at job fairs,
the requests from social services
the increased numbers of requests for assistance
JUST ONCE...will the (R)'s just watch MAIN STREET MEDIA for America's reality.
The Obama administration will go down in history as the worst we have ever had, even surpassing Jimmy Carter. Taxing the rich is not the answer, you don't spend wildly then make up the wild spending by taxing more. In this case, extending the tax cuts had nothing to do with the Obama administration doing good, if it was up to Obama, they wouldn't have extended these payroll tax cuts and they also would have raised taxes on people earning over $250,000 per year (in other words more and higher taxes). The Obama administration forced this issue on the Republicans as an answer to the Republicans not letting him raise taxes on people earning over $250,000 per year. This administration has done nothing good for all Americans and continues to increase a deficit that will be very painful for years to come for all of us when it's time to pay down the deficit, if that can even be done before this administration bankrupts this country. The Republicans want this payroll tax cut extended, but they also want to see a way to pay for it, the Obama administrations doesn't care how any of their spending is paid for, they just want to raise taxes. I say stop spending and manage what is already being spent and maybe we can all pay less tax without bankrupting our country.
dont pass it.lol make the millions of unemployed Democrats for life.what bunch of boobs we have in congress.do whats right for the people and lose your job in congress because the rich wont bank roll you or help the rich to screw the people and lose your job because we hate you.lol tough choice
So, what's different now than in the last three years?
The House gave Democratic President Obama his wish. They passed a year long tax cut for the American bread winner. Then the Democratic Senate went against the wishes of their own Party Leader and changed the bill. President Obama cannot even get his own party to do as he wishes. That is a major problem in this country. A President makes a decision and his own party throws him under the bus.
Now the Senate went on vacation while the President stews in his own juices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Pumpkinhead is a dishonor to this Nation"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
I find it inherently disgusting that the GOP even thought about adding Keystone to the payroll tax cut. What THE HELL??? Wtf does a pipeline that could damage the environment have to do with a tax cut??? This pipeline will create a few jobs and has a chance to poison the drinking water of thousands of people. I personally am for the pipeline, but ONLY if it is placed along a route that won't harm Nebraska's water supply. And since when does the GOP care about paying for stuff??? What about those Bush tax cuts that did nothing but increase our debt by $4 trillion every 10 years?? What about that unpaid Medicare Part D plan?? Sounds like "socialized medicine" to me; which is not that bad if you think about it. What about those two unnecessary and unpaid wars??? No big deal, only a few trillion; besides deficits don't matter. We wasted the lives of 5,500 brave men and women who shouldn't have been there (no offense to any veterans out there) and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. I know that we helped out the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, but we didn't necessarily make things better. Sure, Saddam and the Taliban were abusing their people, but all we did was substitute one evil for another by leaving Iraq open to sectarian warfare. Saddam didn't have WMDs, and even if he did we probably gave them to him. As for Afghanistan, we have a now belligerent Pakistan next-door, and frankly I don't see how we did much help to the people of both nations, now that violence is still rocking the region. Now the GOP actually wants to pay for things. Where was that 8 years ago, when we invaded Iraq?? Where was that when we passed two large tax cuts and kept them EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A WAR GOING ON!!!!!!!!!! That is the FIRST TIME in US history that taxes were CUT and remained cut during wartime. Man, were we stupid. All I want for Christmas next year is Obama in the White House, the Democrats in control of Congress, the Tea Party in decline, and a new age of peace and prosperity (and unity) for ALL AMERICANS, rich and poor, liberal and conservative, white and black, Jew and Gentile, gay and straight, and young and old. God have mercy on this nation; at least we still have a chance to be the best nation in the world.
I have actually taken a liking to Ron Paul. Although I disagree with most of his ideas, I do think that America should spread democracy not through fighter jets and bullets, but through the prosperity that we have as a nation. I think that we should withdraw SOME of our troops from certain nations, just to improve US relations, and start focusing on rebuilding our nation. However, I don't believe in minimal government, I don't have much enthusiasm for a gold-standard currency, I don't want to give education to the states. The guy is a bit too idealistic and too right-wing for this progressive liberal, but at least he's shedding light on certain issues. I also want the Bush tax cuts TO EXPIRE FOR EVERYONE, I want entitlement reform, I want higher taxes on those who make a lot, AND I want cuts in spending. BUT, I also urge for more liberal institutions in our government, like a more national education system and a single-payer healthcare system. To everyone who wants to learn the benefits of government, and all those who are against the federal government, here's a site that offers some insight:
http://governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=6
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
AMERICA 2012
David, could you look at this plan to help America. I'd like some feedback on this:
1. Deficit Reduction Package over 12 years:
2. Economic Plan (paid for by a 4% surtax on people who make over $1 million).
3. Reform Government.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
skip nicolson Oklahoma City #1.94: It's called "Movement Conservatism". Gained great footing with "Ronald Reagan" and been going rather well ever since. Basically, movement conservatism says "a strong Federal government" is contrary to the "Founders, the Constitution, and the good of the people". The movement's singular greatest purpose is to dismantle all vestige of FDR's "New Deal". Republicanism focuses singularly on "Oligarchical governance" of, by, and for the wealthy, holding Egalitarianism at best, ancillary, and subservient to the needs and actions of that oligarchy. Of course this is a brief synopsis, but I contend accurate. Yes, Bourbon Democrats were nearly as goddamn bad. Many will argue and raise hell. Some out of ignorance, others out of natural lying natures. Regardes
Seriously? When have Republicans been anything but a bunch of hypocrites, from reneging on agreements during Dubya not to abuse the filibuster, and then saying parliamentary procedure like "conferencing" has been abused, as if the filibuster is ever actually carried out (if only it was), and on and on.
As for the usual right-wing posts, stop with the fallacious question about a two-month measure. This is a straw-man "gotcha" tactic that shows what transparent simpletons you are. Everyone with half a brain knows the stop-gap is now necessary thanks to Teapublican obstructionist games.
Teapublicans don't know when to accept victory. They had most of what they wanted yet again (thus the high-five between McConnell and Boehner). They did not get to rape the middle class with job cuts, wage freezes, and slashes to UE, but they did get the pipeline attached, they did get funding from Freddie/Fannie, etc. instead of a surtax on income over a million, and a sh!t load of other despicable things.
Now the Teabag minority in the House is destroying the GOP yet again with their crazy talk demands. These ultra conservative douche-bags deserve to be in a corner -- In fact they should go into "time out" to think about the traitors of democracy that they are. They can run but they can't hide. It's too late. We already know who and what they are.
Throw the Teapublicans out!
Ah, I see a challenge to show any evidence that Boehner has lost control of his caucus. Let's see what we can dig up. From 12/20;
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70678.html#ixzz1h8Yfqv9O
From September;
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64102.html#ixzz1h8ZXA0rd
From July;
http://historymusings.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/political-buzz-debt-ceiling-showdown-july-28-2011-speaker-john-boehner-delays-vote-house-debt-plan-plan-c-emerges-compromise-between-boehner-house-plan-reid-senate-plan/
From April;
http://theweek.com/article/index/214298/budget-vote-has-john-boehner-lost-control-of-his-caucus
From March;
http://www.alliance-exchange.org/policy-monitor/03/16/2011/house-passes-sixth-fy11-cr-boehner-may-be-left-tough-choices
What else do you need to know?
First, John Boehner wanted the Senate to pass a payroll tax cut bill. Then, he wanted to make a show of killing it. Now, he won’t hold a House vote on it at all.
In the last and biggest political test of a wild year — Boehner’s final exam for 2012 — the House speaker has shown yet again that he doesn’t have the juice to whip his troops into line. If anything, it is rank-and-file House Republicans who are continually snapping their leader back to the pack when he gets too far out in front of them.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70678.html#ixzz1h8Yfqv9O
Lord folks you got to try. I haven’t seen such fighting and feuding in a long time. Heck if I paid attention to some of you I probably wouldn’t even get out of bed in the morning. After all the world is apparently getting ready to devolve into socialism, communism,facism or some other kind of combination thereof so maybe I should just pull up the covers and shiver until it all goes away. If I somehow worked up the courage to get up I sure wouldn’t want to go out and get in my truck to go to work. The world is full of ism plots and terrorists that our leaders are either ignoring or contributing to and I might inadvertently be caught up in a man-made disaster of biblical proportions if I dare leave the Hill.
No I better just stay up there where I can keep an eagle eye out for some of those long haired pinko type gay folks or maybe some of those heathen minorities that are trying to wrest control from all you right thinking God fearing Christians. You know I’m starting to like this idea. If I stay up on the Hill I won’t have to worry about making any money so I won’t have to worry about putting it in any of those banks or financial markets that you’ll are telling me that are just simply going to be destroyed if somebody forces them to act as honest guardians of my meager interests. See there one less concern in life. Course the wife might have a few objections to me not keeping her in the style that she has become accustomed to but I’m sure if I’m around every day I can make her see the light.
I reckon that if I don’t get off the hill I won’t have to worry about exposing myself all those risky behaviors like living so I could just do away with my healthcare. That way I wouldn’t have to worry about some government fellow getting between me and my doctor or some death panel pulling the plug on me. Shucks I think that since I’ll have so much free time I’ll just go up to the high pasture and dig me a 6 by and that way if I get sick I can just position myself properly and solve the whole problem for my heirs .That ought to boost me right out of that rationing thing or having to worry about premium increases or cobra payments. See how simple life is getting?
I wouldn’t even have to lose a bit of sleep worrying about whether I contributed to putting some poor Democratic Legislator in a position to be swept away by this Tidal wave you’ll say is coming. Sure wouldn’t want to be responsible for asking a fellow to do the right thing and losing his job. I guess I won’t plant that field of wheat this year because I’m sure one of you prognosticators are going to tell me that the Big Wind is going to come in and knock it all down before harvest any way so why bother. I’ll bet that when the county folks come in to collect their property taxes they are going to fall right in with the fact that we are now a socialist state and they are more than welcome to one of my beef cattle as my contribution to the collective.
I do believe that I’m starting to see the light here. Why just think how much time and how many problems I could have avoided if I had just listened to you’ll tell me what was going to happen. Why I’m sure that you have added years to my life by just letting me know there’s a whole group of you that can tell me what’s going to happen tomorrow and a year from now and I just don’t need to worry my old head about it at all. I do believe that some of you have missed your calling. What you ought to do is go down and buy you one of those blinking neon signs that say fortunes told here and get you one of those swami hats and hold séances. Just think how much trouble you could save the rest of us. I would think that you would consider it a civic duty.
Contemplating the whole thing though I think I’ll go the same way I have for the last fifty odd years. I’m going to get up at o’dark thirty and get my coffee and go down by the fire and let the dog out and drink it. Then I’m going to get in that pick-em-up truck and get somewhere doing something around daylight. Why you say? Because life is happening out there and contrary to what some of you apparently believe it ain’t no fun if you know too much about what’s going to happen next. The only way I know to live it is to keep on trying.
Good morning IR. Great Point!
Nothing like some IR wisdom to start the day! Well said.
IR -
As I recall, any number of those same prognosticators promised us several months ago that President Obama - personally and all by himself, mind you - was going to give us $5.00 a gallon gas by the end of the summer. Well, here it is, just a couple days till Christmas, and I'm still waiting. I think I paid just over $4.00 once last May or June, and just after Thanksgiving when I was out shopping in Lancaster County it was $3.18. So where's my $5.00 gas, people? Come on, you promised!
Seriously, though.....you just keep on trying, Uncle Redneck. We need you here to remind the rest of us of what it's really all about.
I am with you on the keep on trying, IR. Only way to go!!!!
That my friend is called having you priority's figured out. I have to add well put.....
JoAnne in PA, gas in middle Tennesse has been around $2.90 for several weeks - yippiee, this is hope and change I can believe in! Perhaps the 1%ers are finally getting it after all, and the oil companies too, we are sick and tired of their greed and destruction of our country and we are not going to take it anymore. Nice job IR, make the coffee strong and hot!
Dumbest post I've ever seen since fat Al Gore "invented" the internet. You truly must have no life.
Liberals! God love em!! LMFAO!!
Anecdotal evidence to the contrary
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/12/20/1952183/a-year-of-high-gas-prices-at-the.html
The biggest bite in 30 years. I guess that more "proof" that Obama is the fourth greatest president.
Yup. That's it. He's the best thing since tuna in a can. . .
First, let me say its an ignorant man who makes decisions base on political ideologies instead of facts. I don't care how old you are. There is no fool like an old fool.
Please RW turn off your talk radio programs and take a course at your local community college on government or even better federal finance or fiscal policies at a university before you comment on something you dont have a clue about. Either, you dont have a clue of what you are commenting or you focus on petty issues. When you should have been concerned is when 1. China was made a permanent preferred trading partner via legislation in 2001 after US
envoys twisted the WTOs arm to allow them to join; 2. When Bush and Clinton signed 8 new free trade agreements when we only had a couple before then; 3 Then after the aforementioned actions they reduced tariffs to almost nil; and Finally
4 They,1999 - 2000, passed legislation that help to create a faux credit/consumer based economy that blew up in our faces in 2008 which was suppose to replace production base that left the USA along with production job losses due to great technological advances. Now, its too late!!!!
People remember divide and conquer. That is what the European colonists used when they gave African countries their independence. They made sure that each country was divided by as many tribes as possible so that they are so busy fighthing each other and not notice that Europe was still controlling and robbing them of their resources. I hope we are more intelligent than most Africans who never set their foot into a grade school.
Hey, NoJoe, thanks for the non-anecdotal evidence from the fine city of Tacoma. As your own link points out:
"Gas prices have been falling here since mid-October. They peaked for the year in the first week of May at $4.05 a gallon, according to the website."
Isn't that pretty much what I just said? Oh, then there was this part:
"Gasoline retail prices reached an all-time high in Tacoma in mid-summer 2008 when the average price for regular was $4.34."
And who was President in mid-summer 2008 again? I thought it was Bush.....but maybe that was just another anecdote, huh?
P.S. - The best thing since tuna in a can is actually stadium seating at the movies - though my cats probably beg to differ.....
Independent Redneck, Loved your story, believe you have a future in writing,, can't wait for the sequel.
The article does mention spot prices- but the real information is about the AVERAGE price of gas- which is higher this year than last, and takes a bigger bite of family income than it has in 30 years.
What you are doing is called selective reading- a necessity for those who choose to remain in the Obama cult.
The day of reckoning is coming:
Bye Bye Boehner (but this is good, no need for Viagra)
Bye Bye Tea Party! Good riddance!!
Bye Bye Newt!!!! No slithering out of this...
The Republicans have made their bed. Let them lie in it.
Thank you, professor no jo, no bo, nj for clarifying your position. You must be a Christian - since everyone who doesn't think like you, look like you or vote like you - just has to be in a cult. It's going to get very lonely for you and your party very soon. Gilligan's island lonely - with none of the humor. Boehner's already working on the first hut.
Gas prices have fallen based on massive production increases of West Texas Intermediate in ND, TX, OK, CO, etc. through Hydraulic Fracturing, aka Fracking. By 2025, the US is projected be the worlds largest exported of crude oil. The small wildcatters are making a fortune and leading the effort.
Yes. And obviously God doesn't think much of conservatives by the looks of the party's current clown show parade. You think maybe He's trying to tell you something? The Lord does work in mysterious ways.
IL,
Well said, and even better, Well Lived!
What! did I wander onto the MoveOn.org site? Its a bit interesting listening to all the fanatical progressives suggesting that the Republican party has moved to the extreme ... I guess that would be your perspective if you are so far left that the middle is extreme.
Let me get this straight - the Senate passed a stopgap so that Harry can go home and gaze at his plum trees for the holidays and the House wants to stay in town and reconcile a real solution as is called for in the Constitution rather than kick the can down the road ... and that is considered extemist pandering?
You guys are becoming more inconsequential all the time as your arguments are all about rhetoric, ideology, emotion, and pitting Americans against each other - its already been proven that your "solutions" don't work (something about the definition of idiocy being trying the same things expecting different results comes to mind).
It is fun to check in from time to time and watch the circus though.
Union Baby - TN: The price of gas went down because the price of Crude fell. Price of crude came back up, gas prices came back up. Nothing new here.
It is all about speculation in the market. Not how much gas is refined nor how much crude is sitting in ships on the Atlantic waiting for months to come in and be downloaded. It is all about having too many speculators being able to buy futures with not enough cash up front to cover their margins. Speculation should only be allowed by people who will actually use the oil or fuel for their own use, ie., Airlines, electricity generators, fuel depots, etc.
Rick's real you do realize you've insulted your President who happens to be in that same"cult of Christianity". You people are truly genius's.
Ricky Poo:
" The Lord does work in mysterious ways"
Don't preach to me Slappy, I'm a non-believer.
Liberals! God love em! LMFAO!!
Believer, non-believer - makes no difference. The FACT, once again, is that your Republican candidates are the biggest cluster of losers and liars ever assembled. You can polish that turd all you want and the only thing you'll ever end up with is a really shiny turd.
Rick, Who am I to question your expertise.
"Rick, Who am I to question your expertise."
LMFAO! Good one!
First, let me clarify: I did not say or even suggest in that post that Christianity was a cult. I said that you must be a Christian because, in essence, it's the Christians who are always accusing others of being in cults.
That being said - I believe Christianity is a cult and a centuries-old con-job to the core.
But don't worry; unlike you, a classy guy like Ricky Poo would never stoop so low as to ever accuse you guys of being geniuses. Truly.
Why thank you! I have been vapidly following the turd-polishing Republican party for 30 years, while everyone else around me has busily ignored them and looked the other way. So I appreciate the support for my expertise. Though with all due modestly, Republicans have exposed their turd-polishing skills for the whole world to see, and they've done it almost all by themselves. I have simply exercised the freedom to share those moments, thanks to our wonderful constitution which allows me such freedoms.
Battle for the GOP. Whether or not one is a republican, a democrat or something in between, what we have watched in the GOP the past two years is the culmination of a 30-year battle not with democrats but rather a battle for its soul. In 2009, the GOP embraced the far right Tea Party for its "enthusiasm", it ignored the crazy talk coming from it, it ignored the extreme views expressed, it ignored the fact that compromise is not a failure but rather what the Constitution intended, it ignored the hate the far right often spoke and declared on its protest signs. Now the GOP House and Senate finds itself stuck with the divisiveness such a welcoming embrace reaps. The GOP has not governed, it has instead mired both sides of Congress and our President in obstructionism and dysfunction while the country and its citizens struggle and suffer. This is not governing for the good of all, it is a failure of the GOP to govern period.
Now we watch that same battle replay itself in the GOP presidential race. Candidates who are conservative but moderate, candidates who actually made sense previously have now embraced the extreme right of its base; they pander to appease their far right base which has been effectively trained to think as they do. There is a reason why GOP candidates who were urged to join the race declined and it has nothing to do with experience or family or whatever reason they gave. It is because they know that to win the GOP nomination, they must become extremists themselves otherwise they become just another Jon Huntsman, Buddy Roemer or Gary Johnson of the party.
The far right extremists becoming the mainstream of the GOP is not something that happened overnight. The shift to the far right began 30 years ago with President Ronald Reagan. Although Reagan was not a far-right extremist, he expressed the ideas that government is bad for us, taxes are evil, unions kill jobs, trickle down, deregulation, an untethered free market will make us prosperous and many believed him. Those seeds of anti-government, anti-tax, anti-regulation grew as the GOP watered and fertilized them with ideological rhetoric that convinced people what was bad for them was actually good. Reagan embraced with less enthusiasm the cultural and social war but his giant hug of evangelicals in the South to win the GOP primary was all that was needed to begin that sides shift to control conservatives and divide the country socially. Where once republican Christians believed in their faith but not that it should be part of politics, now faith drives the GOP.
Reagan unleashed the Pledge to Grover Norquist, the neoconservatives, Bush 43's irresponsible leadership, the GOP's failure to pay for anything in its effort to strangle our country's ability to govern and then systematically "kill" those programs conservatives have been taught to hate. Everyone of Reagan's expressed visions regarding government, taxes, unions and religion in politics--even though he discarded most of them within a year--have led the country to where we are today. A country mired in debt, selfish, dismissive of the poor and unemployed, a weakened government because it has been starved.
Look at what is happening in the GOP House the past few days where extending payroll tax cuts for millions of Americans is sitting on hold because of the Tea Party and Speaker Boehner's inability to lead and simply dismiss the far right and bring the Senate's 89-10 approved legislation for an actual vote.
Are we witnessing the final scream of the far right's control over the GOP? One can hope this is true and one can hope that the Grand Old Party will reasses itself and begin its march back to reality and back to where most of the country's citizens sit--center left and center right with a mix of both ideologies. Failure to do so could mean the GOP dies of self-inflicted wounds.
Great post, Jody. You stated clearly all the things I only implied above.
Good morning Jody. Great Point! It's sad that the term, "Moderate Republicans," is a label they run from.
This Country will never have a real conservative President. They may say they are conservative, but they are not. So the tea party might as well pack it up.
Good point Jody. Question, does the GOP of today even KNOW what they want as a "true conservative"?
I'd contend the war for the Republican Party's soul is already over. The GOP has become the party of the far right, under-educated, disaffected, aging white men and the 1% who pull the wool over their eyes with their simple red meat rhetoric. Can you imagine even Reagan being the standard bearer of the party today? He'd be called a flaming socialist. (Meeting Gorbachev would no doubt be seen as the great "apology" tour). The GOP can only win seats now by attracting independents to their dwindling minority, and those are more and more the former Republicans who are just embarrassed to claim the party's mantle--With their holier than thou hate and class warfare, they've done a fine job of alienating even them. The party of the future? Hardly.
Why are all of you LIBERALS so concerned with the GOP? Why don't you spend your time worrying about what the hell Democrats are doing. For all you know they could be stealing everything right under your nose, hence being you are so infactuated with Republicans.
Thanks everyone, glad you liked my morning coffee musings.
John B, we were definitely on the same page this morning, must be the Iowa air.
AP, you may be right about the GOP's demise, that it's too late; and you're definitely right that Reagan would be called a flaming liberal by the current crop of GOPTPers while they speak of him in awe.
Jody, Just what was the "crazy talk" and the "extreme views" you allude to? What I've heard, and read, is that the Tea Party wants accountability from the government, both fiscally and socially. That's pretty much it.
IntheMiddle, because there is very little left to steal after the Republicans lost power to grab it all.
We of the intelligent part of America do not want to send anymore troops into countries where we do not belong because Republican azzholes want to benefit their friends. Get it?
Which is more traitorous, making up a war and becoming responsible of the deaths and permanent injuries to tens of thousands of American children or not being able to turn the economy away (largely because of Tbagger obstructionism) from the disaster set up by those who created the phony war?
Liberalism = American dreams, Conservatism = selfishness.
ITM, that's an easy question. Liberals are concerned about the GOP's fate because this country needs at least two viable and functioning parties. The GOP has good ideas as do the democrats. Our Constitution was written with an eye toward compromise, toward having the good ideas of both's ideologies form the best solution for all. In fact, our Constitution was the ultimate compromise of both ideological views. When one party moves to the extreme and becomes a negative force, it harms every American not just the opposition.
stanboy, if you don't know the answer to your own question, if you can't see the mean-spirited, racially tinged signs, the death panel lies, the.....you would not listen to my answer
Jody,
Great post this morning. I was very happy to be living in the Pacific during the middle 3 years of Reagan's term. But isn't it amazing to look back and find him to be relatively moderate compared to today's GOP?
Don't bother with ITM. He's a fraud. And in an analogy to what I wrote above, he makes Smiff look like an honest moderate. (Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but you get my point.)
Speaking to truth, it is more accurately stated as: self-inflicted wounds, friendly fire and ricochet.
Jack
You and I rarely disagree; but ITM has posted on this board for years and while he is often a bombastic jerk, he could never be as ugly as Smiff,...even if he tried.
Sorry,...
Jack, I just couldn't resist answering that question not so much for ITM as for other conservatives who read but don't post and might also wonder why I care what happens to the GOP.
You people make me laugh, like a two month tax break of $160 means jack sheet. Where's the real Liberal tax break for the middle class ? On top of that it's from SS and not payroll. You guys are blinded by ideology and not reality. Calling people names is so helpful,and so mature. Continue giving yourselves a pat on the back of course you're not part of the problem.
Why are all of you LIBERALS so concerned with the GOP?
Because they are destroying the country.
tex2c2,
Allow me to make a correction for you.
Democrat Party=white collared crooks, Republican Party=white collared crooks. The only difference between the two is their party names.
They're both robbing us blind so wake up and leave the partisan blindness behind and may be we can take our country back eventually.
Stanboy- The Tea Party may want fiscal accountability, but they have no way of achieving that goal. The age-old mantra of cut spending makes no sense, especially during a recession. Name me one time in the past 70 years in the US where cutting spending during a recession has actually helped this nation. Also tell in that past 40 years where tax cuts have helped the economy improve and actually raise TOTAL federal revenues, not just from a specific income bracket. The ONLY RESPONSIBLE way to cut down the deficit is to do these three things:
AMERICA 2012
all the way to the bank. Yes, we heard you as you were racing by in your Mercedes.
Just a reminder FR fans, tomorrow is the "Be Nice for the Holidays" day! For the men out there in FR land, I will be giving some gift giving advice for the ladies in your life. Ladies of FR, be thinking of any advice in that area we could give the menfolk - want EVERYONE to be after the holiday doings!
On the political front, I noticed a thread last night about "punting" on the middle class tax cut. While past my normal bedtime, I couldn't help but add a comment that you Bears fans would appreciate, but sadly, the posters of the evening did not. I will repeat it now, "If you are going to punt it, do NOT kick it to Hester!"
On the Christmas front, my daughter is taking me out today to get Mr. phinephancy's gift. I am thinking of a remote controlled helicopter that he can tie a stuffed mouse to and torment the cats with. What to you all think?
Happy Tuesday!
My cats would LOVE that!
I think my big "kid" and the cats will have a ball!
And just for Feisty:
"Don't kick it to Hester!!!"
Chicago's very own; 'Rocket Man'! lol
PS: They will ♥ the chopper - we have one & it drives them crazy! Our newest acquisition is; Undercover Mouse!
phine,
Thanks for the reminder of" Good Cheer" for Wednesday FR posts. I will have my gift giving list to help all those men on FR who only shop early on Christmas Eve. They need all the help they can get.
I have had enough of polls, watching Congress self destruct, and the Repub candidates talking nonsense...
I hear you Northstar!
@Feisty,
Several years ago, Keith Olbermann gave the funniest commentary on "Don't Kick it To Hester" I ever heard. I still giggle when I think about it!
Should'nt you all be on facebook? I see no connection between the article and your love fest.
stanboy, I am telling Santa to put coal in your stocking this year.
FYI, this is First Thoughts, and we give our first thoughts of the day. And it was the place to remind the regulars of tomorrow's truce - we play nice tomorrow. You may come, as long as you leave your hate behind.
phinephancy, now that's a gift for the whole family, including the cats, to enjoy. I think Speaker Boehner "punted" to Hester yesterday! No need to tell Santa to leave stanboy a lump of coal--I hear he's already on the naughty list!
Hey, stanboy, it's called "First Thoughts" for a reason.
Crazy liberal cat Ladies that explains allot.
phine--whatever, You don't decide if I post tomorrow, or anytime. I know you think you're important, but, not so much.
Having "hater" as part of your screen name explains even more.
phine, good luck with tomorrow's project - I just counted at least nine posts above this that have been collapsed already - on both sides - none of which seemed to be in any violation of the code of conduct here - just people wanting to trash the other side. "American exceptionalism" strikes again.....
Make that at least 10 posts - including this whole thread, which started off with a plea for everyone to Be Nice for the Holidays tomorrow!
Zheesh......
Not to worry, JoAnne, we still will strive for a good day tomorrow. And just ignore those who hate.
I have an Idea ,why not try being nice all year and stop with the name calling every time you don't like what someone who disagrees with you says. No one has a monopoly on righteousness.
agree JoAnne this whole post collapsing BS on BOTH sides is highly childish, it makes us not so regulars not want to waste the time to come in here, (unless that;s what y'all on both sides are striving for?)
Phine- my old fat cat isn't a fan of the "hopter chopter" as we call it, the younger one is though (old= 10 years, young=2 years) now we pull out the laser pointer and both cats go insane it's hysterical! I also highly recommend the "undercover mouse" that Feisty was talking about And to think lahater I'm not even a liberal and I have cats!
Who is Newton to complain about his opponents going negative?
This is the guy who turned the politics of character assassination into a Zen-like exercise.
Sorry, Newton, but when you proudly discuss something as radical as abolishing courts, arresting judges and ignoring the Supreme Court simply for commiting the "crime" of rendering a decision with which you disagree then you need to have your nose rubbed in that statement.
You have Freedom of Speech...not freedom from the consequences of what you say.
Yes I suppose "Kenyan colonialism" was a term of endearment...
Why, doesn't everyone say Newtisms in their significant other's ear before the bliss of love?
This morning I watched another Newt Gingrich "I'm so nice and good, and everyone else is so mean to me" campaign ad. Now, that "happy me" might work for someone without the reputation Gingrich has for ugly, mean, nasty, character assassination but most Iowa republicans won't buy the new Newt as anything but phony.
Because, nothing drives a woman wild like going "Spiro Agnew" on her. Seriously, call her a "Nattering Nabob of Negativism" and she's yours for life!!!
Oooo, I forgot Spiro. I just melt when I hear that!
Pat Buchanan actually wrote those lines for Spiro....
So, Ron Paul LEADS the polls in Iowa, as Newton, like the anti-Romneys before him, deflates like a Macy's Cartoon Balloon after the parade. Newton's descent, coupled with Rep. Paul's surge, would seem to clear the path to the nomination for Mitt, where just a few days ago it looked like Newton would give him a real run for his money.
I believe that the Conservative base of the Republican party so dislikes Mitt as a standard bearer, that there is still the possibility, still TIME for another anti-Romney to enter the fray, but they are going to have to declare before SC, because if Mitt finishes ahead of Newton in Iowa and wins NH, Gingrich may have fallen so far that Romney can win SC, and with that momentum, can cruise to the nomination....
Jeb, you listening?
Sarah, you were already on TV saying "It isn't too late"
Bachelor #3?....
dangerfield
true, but I really do hope the rest of the nut sack stay out at this point......
I personally would like Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, or Bachmann run against Obama just so he can win. I'd love to see Bachmann's defeated face and Ron Paul splitting up GOP in two. Man, I think I got what I wanted for Christmas...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
WeiserJG .. With Grover Norquist at the top of gop-tea helm, their is no such thing called compromise. I suspect you are illadvised. Good colon cleansing would fix your ills.
Reality check for King-in-waiting Gingrich:
$35,000 a year is a hell of alot of money out here in the real world . . . that is more than many families make A YEAR . . . but it is chump change for the likes of you, eh?
Priceless.
P.S. Bravo to President Obama for forcing the Congress to DEMONSTRATE who they are really working for . . . Boehner and Cantor . . . you can run, but you can't hide . . . because our President remained focused on what was best for the American people and did not take all the bait you folks keep throwing out (Solyndra and the like), now the time has come to put up or shut up . . . and even the newstainment industry has to take notice . . . persistence does pay.
Has John Boehner lost control?
Boehner or McConnell...one of them is leading from behind.
Da Noid, a question. Did Boehner ever have control? Seriously.
I think Boehner may have had control before the debt debacle in the summer, but I might be wrong because I don't recall any major legislative actions passed after the 112th Congress took office. If I'm wrong, somebody please inform me. But after the summer debate, Boehner became a puppet leader directly controlled by the Tea Party and greatly by the Messiah of the so-called right wing religion praising Ronald Reagan. Sometimes I wonder why the GOP is still alive. I mean, the info that comes off of the GOP portrays it as a servant of the special interests, no different than the Democrats. But I'm choosing the lesser of two evils by backing the Democrats; I hope that I can in the future reform the Democratic Party (and hopefully the government itself) to make it more representative to the common people; conservatives, liberals, moderates, and independents included. Happy Holidays phinephancy, and Foxy keep at it.
Over the weekend I watched a Carol Burnett Show reunion type special on DVD I forgot I had...it was a special from about 10 years ago or so, and then citizen SCOTT BROWN was in the audience, and was picked by Carol to ask her a question as she usually did in the beginning of her shows, and the question was for her to do her Tarzan call, which he called one of the "sexiest" sounds he ever heard. It just creaped me out.
That is an incredible coincidence!!
A few thoughts (courtesy of Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul and Mary fame) for those of you celebrating the start of Hanukkah tonight.....though in reality, they're just as relevant to all of us - whatever our religion, whatever our politics:
Light one candle for the Maccabee Children
with thanks that their light didn't die.
Light one candle for the pain they endured
when their right to exist was denied.
Light one candle for the terrible sacrifice
justice and reedom demand.
Light one candle for the wisdom to know
when the peace maker's time is at hand.
Don't let the light go out
It's lasted for so many years
Don't let the light go out
Let it shine through our love and our fears.
Light one candle for the strength that we need
to never became our own foe.
Light one candle for those who are suffering
pain we lived so long ago.
Light one candle for all we believe in
that anger won't tear us apart.
And light one candle to bring us together
with peace as the song in our hearts.
Don't let the light go out,
it's lasted for so many years.
Don't let the light go out,
let it shine through our love and our fears.
And what is the memory that's valued so highly
that we keep it alive in that flame?
What's the commitment for those who have died,
when we cry out they have not died in vain?
We have come this far always believing
that justice would somehow prevail.
This is the burden, this is the promise,
and THIS is why we will not fail.
Don't let the light go out,
it's lasted for so many years.
Don't let the light go out,
let it shine through our love and our fears.
Don't let the light go out!
Don't let the light go out!
Don't let the light go out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yZ1zxtbOJE
P.S. - If you aren't cranking up the volume and singing along by the third verse, there's something seriously wrong with your heart and soul.....
"If you aren't cranking up the volume"
Cranking up the volume to Peter, Paul, and Mary? LMFAO!!!
Liberals! God love em! LOL!
Gee, Red, thanks for taking time out from your busy day to share such kind words. People like you are such an inspiration to me. Oh, and Happy Holidays to you too!
Red Neckelson
Mocking Jews? Really? All righty then...
JoAnne, we sing this at our Temple every year and are looking forward to it this Friday Night. We will have a small celebration at home this evening and then four different Channukah parties over the next four nights. Thank you for thinking of us!
Some other favorites:
Not by Might, Not by Power (Debbie Friedman) (lyrics from Zechariah 4:6)
Chorus: Not by might, and not by power
But by spirit alone
Shall we all live in peace.
The children sing
The children dream
And their tears may fall
But we'll hear them call
And another song will rise (3x). Chorus:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JudahMaccabee (c) Copyright, 1989 by Rabbi Joseph R. Black
CHORUS:
In The window, shining so bright
I can see the Hanukkah Light
And it gives me such a warm, friendly glow
When I think of Judah Maccabee, so long ago
Red,
Your response to Joanne sums up your tea-bagging party - You all do not care about anyone else but yourselves and your corporations. Are you anti-semitic as well?
Hey Redneck-lson!
How's about a little Kinky Friedman and his Texas Jewboys to get you in the Chanukah spirit?!?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, a redneck nerd in a bowling shirt was a-guzzlin' lone star beer
Talking religion and-uh politics for all the world to hear. ¡
°they oughta send you back to russia, boy, or new york city one
You just want to doodle a christian girl and you killed god's only son.¡±
I said, ¡°has it occurred to you, you nerd, that that's not very nice,
We jews believe it was santa claus that killed jesus christ.¡± ¡°
you know, you don't look jewish,¡± he said, ¡°near as I could figger I had you lamped for a slightly anemic, well-dressed country n#$@er
No, they ain't makin' jews like jesus anymore,
They don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.
He started in to shoutin' and a-spittin' on the floor, ¡
°lord, they ain't makin' jews like jesus anymore.¡±
Read more: KINKY FRIEDMAN - THEY AIN'T MAKIN' JEWS LIKE JESUS ANYMORE LYRICS http://www.metrolyrics.com/they-aint-makin-jews-like-jesus-anymore-lyrics-kinky-friedman.html#ixzz1h5uhUY6r
Copied from MetroLyrics.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESNCWrks6vQ
Maybe the guy just does not like folksingers?
Anyway, whatever your musical tastes, enjoy the celebration.
Please tell me how Reds comment of cranking up Peter Paul and Mary was somehow anti Semitic? I believe it had all to do with the fact that they weren't exactly Rock and Roll. As far as anti Semitic talk to OWS. You people are unreal.
Kinky's a "Folk" singer, or maybe I'm not spelling that correctly...
Yes, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, he just hates "folk-singers"...lol (but he wants God to love the liberals!) Maybe he's a "closet" Phil Ochs fan?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw
Imagine, self-deprecating humor!
And I guess Redneck-lson or many of you non-liberal JEWS never saw Peter, Paul and Mary perform the song, they and the Liberal Jews in the audience get pretty loud on that chorus...:)
I'm going to go with Red neckelson not being anti-Semitic, more likely than not doesn't like PPM, I don't personally like them as much as I did when I was little listening to them with my Grandma on cookie bakin day.
I think Kinky Friedman is hysterical personally he goes after everyone, he's like a singing George Carlin. Though I can see why people who don't know Kinky personally would find him offensive.
"I'm going to go with Red neckelson not being anti-Semitic, more likely than not doesn't like PPM"
LOL! I actually like them. But "crank up the volume"? LMFAO!! What's next? Head-banging to Bread?
It's hilarious how all the libbies immediately cry anti-semitism. LOL! My girlfriend is a Jew. Just banging her basically but she is still a Jew.
Liberals! LOL!
Funny thing, when I listened to Peter Paul and Mary their religious affiliation never came up. How you people come up with this stuff is simply amazing.
Yep, I didn't know they were Jews nor cared. I'm a non-believer and not too concerned about the religious affiliation of muscians.
But it's hilarious how the libbies immdeiately start with the racisim or anti-semitism posts when they lose a debate. LOL! I guess they are just cranky since they soon will lose the White House and senate.
Liberals! God love em! LOL!
Wait, that was Jewish?? Man, I thought it was a sort of humanitarian song or American patriotic song. Either way, I think its brilliant. Happy Hannukah from this dude!!! And a Happy New Year!!!!!
Yes, God just can't seem to get enough of rednecks either. And from the perspective of everyone else in the world, rednecks are such delightful people to hang around with. As long as we're white. And American. And Christian. And speak english. And vote Republican.
Ricky Poo,
Dude, you posted at 2:54 AM?!?!?! You truly must not have a life. LOL!
Your post is funny. My girlfriend is a Jew. My son is named Carlos. Guess if his momma is white or not white?
Liberals! God love em!! LMFAO!
Man, you are one class act.
Bullcrap, the house is taking the lead. Every business owner, small business owner, payroll service company and full time employee know a year is better than 2 months.
That leaves all those college grads with history degrees working at starbucks crying about the evil house. Boo hoo, wake up. Even walmart employees know 1 year is better and worth getting right the first time. But those barrista's, man they are up in arms...
Here comes the crazies.
Yep, we're all crazy because we think getting it right the first time is worthwhile and all those who think we need to do it 6 times and put regulatory cost and burden on businesses are sane.
Yeah, uh, I guess I'm on my way to the looney bin...
Mr: yeah, right...just name all of those "regulatory cost and burdens"...
uh, huh...thought so....on your way to the looney bin
Then why are Senator Brown, Senator Heller, Senator Lugar and Senator Snowe
all Republicans: Asking the house to give the Senate bill an up or down vote?
Getting it right the first time?
What is this character smoking exactly? They seem to think it takes 2-4 years to get ANYTHING right,...why not stall, obfuscate and prevent further movement of any legislation. Someone seems to think that congressional jobs take longer than other jobs to see results. Boy, talk about koolaid drinking to the nth degree.
Personally, if they got off their asses and made ANY effort whatsoever I'd find the 'get it right' meme a little more convincing. But hey, I'm quirky that way.
Mr302541, The dems and the president were the ones requesting that the payroll tax cuts be extended for a year for eons..The senate bill is their efforts to compromise with the GOP. The GOP two weeks ago was complaining on the media all over this country that the tax cut was a bad ideo and would hurt social security. Then the CBO gave the idiots an analysis to show it wont create material harm to the fund!!!!!! The opinions of both sides during this year is well documented. There is no way McConnel and a sizeable number of GOP senators would have voted for the bill extending it for only 2 months unless they negotiated and cut a deal with Beohner. The Teaparty in the House yet again is attempting destroy our economy and hurt the middle class. Wasnt taking away our AAA bond rating due to their obstructionist and bully tactics enough? Seems as if the kids are running the house instead of the adults. When you want to talk about the lack of leadership, start with Beohner.
How much do you people get paid per post?
Hypothetical: A business is giving out raises. They tell the employees it'll only be for 2 months and then they'll decide to extend it another 2 months sometime during the first cycle. If it doesn't get approved, the employee will go back to the old rate.
The business cannot plan this way, nor can the employee. The budget director is going nuts all year as is the payroll person. The shareholders do not know what the P&L is going to look like so cannot invest. Not to mention the tax filer. One month the rate is this, the next it's that. Regulatory and financial cost. Only the government would operate this way.
On the other side, there's 26,000 union jobs waiting the republicans want while obama wants to settle the unions down with unemployment extension. Which is better for me and you, 26,000 jobs or the unemployment extension?
Sorry people, the house is doing the right thing and all you partisan hacks need to go blow smoke up someone elses arse.
MR,
This congress has not got one thing right yet, why would we believe they could get anything right at this point.
Then make it a stand alone bill if you want it done the first time.
To MR: I call BullCr***. The only reason there isnt a year long extension is because the Republicans attached the keystone pipeline to the amendment. So..before you try and speak for me ( a small biz owner) get your facts straight and stop spouting Faux lies. The Democrats want the tax cut and will work to get it..whether a temporary 2 month extension while a long term deal is worked out OR a long term deal with no other issues attached. I'll take a 2 month extension over nothing any time!
MR-392541: "How much do you people get paid per post?"
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I just checked the "Earnings" tab on my Newsvine home page (we all have one - you too!) and in a little over 20 months of posting here, I'm now up to a whopping 52 cents. I just can't decide which of the charities they let you select from to donate it to. Which one would you pick - the Child Abuse Prevention Center, the American Red Cross, or the Wildlife Conservation Society?
How about classes in civility.
JoAnne in PA:
I think you can choose other causes as well. If not, you can send it to PayPal and donate to anyone from there.
I'm going to wait until I get $100.00 in my account. I figure by the time I get there, I'll donate it to the "Protect Oklahoma's Shoreline" fund.
MR - I absolutely agree w/ your assessment that we need to sign the 1-year extension the first time since we all know how these deals later on work so well (read: debt ceiling deficit cut committee).
However, you are blaming this on the wrong party. This is purely the GOP holding this thing up. Pull your head out of the sand. Not only did the dems want a 1-year extension, they wanted to pay for the extension through a small tax increase on multi-millionaires. Well, of course, the GOP is going to say no to that. So, the dems capitulated and offered an extension w/out it being paid for. Well, now the GOP decided to take a stand and say that it needs to be fully paid for. Really? Now they want to pay for tax cuts? They didn't "pay" for the Bush tax cuts. Obviously, if the GOP was in charge and it was their idea, they would pass the bill overnight. But since Obama may actually get credit for doing something good for the country, the R's needed to quickly back track and figure out a way to kill it by attempting to blame it on Obama. Nice job Republicans. First, you played your stupid little games w/ the debt ceiling and now you're playing your stupid little games w/ a very effective "true" middle class tax cut. Despicable.
No one answered anything except partisan crap. It should never have gotten out of the senate with only 2 months. The dems are playing political games.
Anyone care to answer on the 26,000 jobs and energy security for decades? Apparently not. Rather sit back and collect unemployment than work would be my guess.
Partisan crap is all you people have.
The Republican Tea Party is trying hard to make stupid cool.
You're to easy Rick.....
Enter a source for your claim of 26,000 jobs on the Keystone XL Pipeline. Make sure the distinction is made between jobs created for Canadian companies and those here.
You don't have a source do you? That's the biggest number I've seen spouted off. The more realistic numbers being touted are 2k-10k. And the bulk of those are temporary.
Why aren't you concerned about the hundreds of thousands of jobs that could have been created through Obama's jobs bill? Oh. It doesn't have to do with oil and it comes from a Democrat, never mind I answered my own question.
When Obama was elected in 2008 I knew American politics would be headed for disaster. If you have ever worked at company where an obviously unqualified person accidently gets promoted to a leadership role you understand how much of a failure Obama is as a president. We desperately need a leader who has the respect of his colleagues as well as Americans who pay the majority of this countries taxes. However I am encouraged to listen to alot of 2008 first time voters who arent planning to make that mistake again in 2012. I think the current gridlock in Washington now is the best thing for our country until we can elect a better leader in 2012. Let's not forget the economy really started improving when the Republicans regained the house (So saying "NO" to ridiculous policies really does work).
Here comes the crazies.
See what I mean.
Try and answer this....How much better off would you think this country would be had McCain/Palin won in 2008? I doubt it would be any better than it is now and feel it could be much, much worse. So if you got any ideas on how to improve our country why don't you share them with this administration and become a real patriot. Yeah, I didn't think so.
Yeah, because voting for Gingrich or Romney or one of the other wannabes is going to make things all sunshine, rainbows and lollipops in the House and Senate, right?
If you believe that then you're as delusional as you think we are for electing President Obama in the first place.
Is there a full moon? Or are some of our little buddies on the right hitting the spiked egg nog a wee bit early in the day?
Kacz, I doubt Mccain would have wasted the first 2 years of his presidency pushing a health care bill most Americans agree will do nothing to control healthcare costs but certainly will add to the number of people expecting another entitlement. I also doubt stimulus 1 would have been as generous to the public and auto Unions. I beleive if McCain had won we would have spent stimulus one improving this countries infrastructure, building roads, bridges, oil pipe lines from Canada, etc. etc. etc.
Noid:
Just like voting for Obama was going to make everything rosey and perfect.....right......
You are just as delusional as the next man. If you think electing Obama for a second term is the best thing since sliced bread, you are definately living in the twilight zone.
To any of you Obamaites; If you voted for Obama to prove you're not a racist, PLEASE vote for someone else, to prove you're not an idiot.
Our Government has a single digit approval rating that would show otherwise.
So the sole problem is the President? The House and Senate have not been acting like spoiled little children, stomping their feet for not getting their way?
Despite what you think is right, not making decisions is never the best thing for anything, let alone a nation. A lack of compromise is a sign of a failed government.
You're right. He would have been busy planning our next military action. Heck, we probably would have 100,000 troops in Iran by now.
Yet, since he's not President, that somehow prevents him from bringing the issue to the floor? Cat has his tongue?
Did you just play the race card? Why?
Vote
Obama/Biden 2012
A GREAT CHOICE!
Funny how hard president Obama worked on obama care,and couldnt do anything else at the same time.He couldnt get someone to focus on jobs at the same time? The man is a failure and i wonder why so many posters defend him,i can only surmise your being paid. If you cant do your job you get replaced.
How about the dirt thrown Ron Pauls way,the only honest consistent one who is willing to do whats needed.
Not that this is even remotely related to this article. Actually your entire post is way off topic. However, you deserve a reply.
Take that finger you're blindly pointing at people over what I quoted above and point it at the Republican party and the media. You seem to be trying to tie it into being the Presidents fault.
UAW/Ron...
That health care bill may have been a "waste" to you extremists of the "let em eat cake" party ...but having the US join the rest of the western world with some kind of basic health care (even one without ANY single payer) passes for revolutionary in this country. Meanwhile winding down the Afghanistan war and ending the Iraq war, taking out Osama and Bin Laden, starting to balance the right wing imbalance on the Supreme Court and averting the Bush head long plunge toward a depression, while saving (shut your ear UAW) the awful American auto industry...Yeah...a very EVENTFULL first term. Saying no to the party of no and their apologists hasn't happened often enough--but then again, we knew he'd be the only grownup in the room and were expecting that. Let's hope American success REALLY infuriates you two in the second Obama term so you have even more to whine about.
Stanboy, playing the race card like that is really low, even for the far loony right.
I voted for President Obama because he was head and shoulders above the other option in the 2008 general election. Has he disappointed me at times in the intervening 3 years? Yes, he has. Will I vote for him again in 2012? Oh heall yeah - because compared to the teapublican slate of contenders this time around, Mr. Obama is now head, shoulders, torso and legs above all of them.
UAW, the leadership is lacking in the House. Boehner is far from being an LBJ or Sam Rayburn. People, again turn off the media and read and see exactly what is really going on and what has been proposed. By what I see, most opinions are based on rumors and innuendos. Go to Thomas Jefferson at the Library of Congress for senate records and etc. Go to GPO.gov for presidential and agency submissions and documentation. Proposal after proposal is stalemated. Remember the "grand bargain" last Summer with significant budget cuts and addressing taxes that Beohner and Obama negotiated that died because Beohner had no pull in the house. The Dems during the Reagan administraton could have been obstructionist during his recession which was a fraction or what we are dealing with now, but I guess they cared more for their country than regaining political power.
And if Mc Cain won we'd still be in Iraq. It would still be unfunded.
I'm sure some of Obama's failures are due to race. There is no doubt a man of color is going to have a tougher time leading a group of whites. That's not right or fair. I guess the same could be said for his near 100% approval rating among blacks. We just havent come as far as I would hope in regards to color in this country. My disappointment in the current president is the way he seems to encourage more people to take less personal responsibility. I don't see his promotion of "wealth redistribution" as improving the prospects for the poverty problem in this country. Slowly we need to make it harder for people to get entitlements except the truly disabled and disadvantaged.
AP, you mean that health care that Obama is giving all his friends a waiver on, before it's over turned by the Supreme Court. You know and I know he should of passed a jobs bill when he had the chance, try being honest for once.
Uaw: If Mc Cain had won, our troops would'd have increased in Iraq and Afghanistan; we would have been embroiled in every conflict on the planet and the draft would have been re-instated. He has never seen a war he didn't love. He's still fighting VietNam; bound and determined to win there regardless of how many lives or money it costs, and no matter where it takes us. The Defense budget would increase substantially at the cost of every other program we have with absolutely no accountability. He is a bitter old man.
wlee - i agree the health care bill will do nothing to control health care costs in this country. I also agree Obama should have put a jobs bill in front and center. I also agree that the stimulus should have been at least 75% towards infrastructure. In regards to the health care, we should just go the single payer method like the rest of the world. Then we could get rid of medicare and medicaid since it would all be under the same umbrella. Just a reminder, Republicans, your hero GW passed Part D completely unfunded. But I digress. As soon as Obama did present a jobs bill what did the Republicans do? That's right...killed it. Killed all of it, over and over again. Did they present other options, did they try and compromise? Nope, just kill it since it may actually help the middle class and make Obama look good. Well, we can't have that. Again, the GOP is a very sick joke. And, I have voted Republican for 20 years...no more. Once the nut jobs took the party over, I can't do it anymore.
AP
I'm SO glad that Obama has passed Affordable Health Care legislation that now, no one can AFFORD. Gee! And winding down 2 wars that brough home troops by the same deadline set in place before he even took office. What an accomplishment!! Oh and I'm so glad that Bin Laden was killed during the same war that Obama campaigned AGAINST. He's doing such a swell job. Taking credit for things he had nothing to do with and basically accomplishing nothing constructive to the citizens of this country exept for bi-partisanship and class warfare. I have to give him credit for being such an eloquent speaker. Too bad it's all lip service. I guess all I can do is "Hope FOR Change" in 2012.
LOL... liberal article defining what's going on.....LOL... why is harry reid still breathing?
ohio: and yet...you have nothing substantive to refute it. High five?? What high five? Deal? What deal. Bonior..who?? Must be a liberal plot by liberal media...ever get tired of repeating the same ol tripe over and over?
Uh...care to expound upon that last statement?
So since you don't like a Liberal article, you hope someone would die?
I am sure there are sites out there that will give a Conservative biased article. Obviously you lean right but fake dissatisfaction when coming to a left leaning site.
The individual being put in a corner is Mr. Obama. The House Repubs need to keep stressing the fact that they have passed a bill that gives a one year extension to the payroll tax cut, not just two months that Obama and the Dems are proposing. Leave it up to the MSM to twist the story. When George S reported on this story last night on ABC, he failed to mention the House bill, that was passed before the Senate bill, and failed to mention that the House was in favor of a longer extension of the cut. He made it sound like the House was rejecting any cut because the House did not vote for the Senate bill. That is irresponsible and party hack journalism at its worse. And the article we are commenting on here pretty much does the same thing. Rather than questioning why the Dems and Obama will not vote for the full one year cut, they paint the picture that the Repubs are holding up the works when it is really Obama and the Dems that are doing so. The spin meisters never stop. My only request is that they stop calling themselves journalist, because they are far from it.
BTW, did you see the poll they showed on Meet The Press this past weekend where journalist were rated close to the bottom on integrity and ethics?
NEBRASKA, as red a state as there is, doesn't want the damn pipeline! It'll leak right into a major water source. I think a lot, if not most, of us can see this move for what it is - transparent, bovine excrement!
You fail to mention, Congress scored 10 points lower than journalists...
I am waiting for congressional approval to hit zero. Got the champagne on ice.
BTW: it has been so since about the time there were journalists. Everyone's favorite whipping boy. Doesn't make it any truer today...its just SO hard to read the truth isn't it?
Auntie theres hundreds of pipelines crossing our country,you hear of any spills? The oil is needed and the jobs are needed.
ron, less that 100 net U.S. jobs is not a valid reason to risk vital water supplies.
Build a damned refinery closer to Canada.
Where have you been just in this past year? We had several. Seriously, where have you been?
That's what happens when you just pretend to maintain them.
Especially when the US for the first time is becoming a crude EXPORTER....
Ron, extra, extra, read all about it. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2011/06/us-canada-keystone-pipeline-hits-bumps/1
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/congress-exxon-pipeline-idUSN1E76D0PW20110714
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/15/us-enterprise-pipeline-idUSTRE77E42Z20110815
Shall I go on?
Auntie
Is this one of those instances where Ron1751 the Faux Noise viewer is LESS informed than having had NO exposure to any news:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-22/news/30431182_1_fox-news-results-show-viewers
haha
Those pipelines do not cross directly over the water supply of 8 states where we grow the majority of our food. Typical nonsense from a supporter of the king of nonsense who just can't understand that those of us who live here do not want the thing going across the aquifer. You can shove that pipeline where the sun doesn't shine and if you need a job brush up on your spanish, I hear McDonald's is hiring. Those were the best the GOP could do for providing any jobs.
Feisty, so your point is they both suck? AP you can't handle the truth,BTW Osama and Bin Laden are one and the same. NYMike six alternative routes have been approved for the Pipeline BTW your number for jobs is BS. You forget truckers to move the oil, mechanics to fix the trucks, auto parts for the trucks inspectors for the pipeline, refinery workers to refine the oil I could go on ,but I'm sure you see where it leads.
NY Mike and Amused - I suggested the following a couple of days ago on another vine blog - NBCpolitics….
______________
The jobs are a good thing but at what cost? Rolling a pipe line through the Sand Hills of Nebraska and over the Ogallala aquifer can prove disastrous. Not sure if you know but the Sand Hills are a huge resting point for millions of migrating fowl and birds. It is a natural treasure. On top of that the Ogallala aquifer provides irrigation and potable water for Nebraska, Kansas and other Midwestern states.
I will put aside my aversion for dirty fossil fuels, which oil sands extraction amount too when you consider it emits more carbon (greenhouse gases) and play devil's advocate.
Why not play it safe and reroute the pipeline? Or better yet, why can't we route the pipeline to North Dakota, before you laugh, hear me out. Right now North Dakota oil fields are booming with new discoveries. Why can't we use a little stimulus money and build refineries in North Dakota in lieu of traversing this oil pipeline thousands of miles to Texas refineries?
#11.1 - Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:57 AM CST
___________________
Climate connections.org
North Dakota tribes propose petroleum refinery granted key epa permit
By: Chuck Haga, Grand Forks Herald
The federal Environmental Protection Agency has approved a key permit required for development of a petroleum refinery proposed on the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation near Makoti, N.D., Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., announced Thursday.
The refinery would be one of the first constructed in the United States in the past three decades and would be operated by the Three Affiliated Tribes of Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara Indians.
The permit "represents an important milestone and a tremendous opportunity for the Three Affiliated Tribes and our state," Hoeven said. "It will create new jobs, especially for members of the Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara Nation."
Development of the refinery, capable of refining 15,000 barrels of oil a day, also will "make it possible for North Dakota to play a more integral role in the entire cycle of oil production, from its crude extraction to consumer use," Hoeven said.
First proposed in the 1990s, the $400 million refinery would be small by industry standards but potentially a major jobs and income generator for the reservation.
Initially designed to convert Canadian tar sands oil to gasoline, diesel and other fuels, the refinery could be expanded in the future to refine sweet North Dakota crude oil pumped from tribe-owned wells, geologist and project manager Horace Pipe said last summer when the refinery plans were outlined in Forum Communications Co.'s
_____
Why not build a refinery in North Dakota to help process the already booming oil business there? The need will help provide jobs and augment iN. Dakota's oil boom by bringing in a smaller routed pipeline from Canada to N. Dakota. This keeps a pipeline route through Nebraska all the way to Texas moot.
In fact from what I've seen, a route is already planned to bypass Nebraska why not go that route?
Wlee - If we build a refinery in N. Dakota we can process the N. Dakota oil and the Tar sands. Then we can get some of those trucking jobs you mention, by trucking the refined oil to major markets and transportation hubs like Chicago, Minneapolis.
You libs keep bringing up the current approval ratings for Congress which is around 9%...this is not big news. For those of you with short memories, Congress' approval rating since 2007 (ya know, when Harry and the idiot Pelosi took over), was right around 11%...it's now 9%. I wouldn't exactly call that a HUGE decline given the divisive nature of our idiot in chief occupying the WH!!!!
My numbers are not off. There is no need to build yet another pipeline across the country. Build another refinery on the Canada/ American border. The existing truckers will be more than able to handle shipping it. Same goes for the mechanics and maintenance, or lack of as we have seen in multiple pipeline failures this year alone.
Who's pockets are being lined to drag this through the entire country?
This pipeline is being pushed so that the Koch Brothers can easily get the oil from their Canadian Tar Sands operation moved down to Port Arthur quickly. This is about nothing but making money. The new pipeline, which when thought about logically should reduce the price of oil, but it will not. It is being sold using the premise that once completed the cost of oil should rise by $3 a barrel. It will also raise the price of gas considerably in the midwest because right now the oil coming through the existing pipeline stops and is refined in the midwest and isn't sold on the open market. Once it makes it to Port Arthur they can sell it on the open market. And to sweeten this deal for America, the Port Arthur Refinery is currently operated by Motiva Enterprises, which is jointly owned by Shell and Saudi Refining. Yet republicans in their infinite wisdom think this is all a grand idea. And then there is the whole sellout about jobs. Here is a study by Cornell University about the prospect of REAL jobs from this adventure. Cornell Study.
Boehner's pursuit of the speaker's post reminds me of something I learned as a kid; be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it. I NEVER thought that he was up to the challenge! Boehner and the whole damn Republican house made their beds; let them lie in them!!!!
I don't care if God forgives Newt or not. God ain't votin'!! This reminds me of a bumper sticker that I've seen a couple of times; "Jesus loves you!! Everyone else thinks you're an a$$h0le!!"
If you never thought Boehner was up to the challenge, you must be horrified that Obama got elected. He's been on the government dole, all his life. No private sector experience, not even a paper route. But much abstract discussion with Aryes and company. Results are plain. Utter failure.
whoa: turn down that Limbaugh and get a clue...Law professor counts as "public dole"? Let me guess: your bar of success is robbing the taxpayer financed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac of millions as a not-so-secret lobbyist or taking over companies and destroying jobs as a venture capitalist? Both "on the dole" Washington insiders?? yeah, the evidence is clear alright. Can we say hypocrasy?
Who the hell is "Aryes", Stanboy? You mean Bill Ayres! Sheesh! Good thing I can read your mind - not that it took long!! Law professorships and book royalties are the government dole? Not on this planet. Maybe, on Uranus!!
whoa, AP...turn down that Maddow and Schultz...Obama was a guest lecturer...big difference. the National Science Foundation does not include the J.D. or other professional doctorates among the degrees that are equivalent to research doctorates - the type Newt Gringrich has. And lastly, can you even SPELL hypocrisy?
It's high time McConnell gets a taste of his own medicine. The House republicans are refusing to let the Senate legislation through, even though it contains the holier than thou pipeline piece they all want. The House realizes the American people deserve more than a two month extension on payroll taxes. This is nothing more than politics as usual. Hope they'll enjoy Christmas in DC.
There is a slight problem with your post, kacz. The Dems control the Senate.
There's another slight problem with your post, stanboy. "Control" doesn't mean what you think it means. It takes a 2/3 vote for these measures and that means Republicans have to be on board (which is what the high 5 was all about...everyone thought there was an agreement).
It would help if stanboy understood the first thing about our legislative branch and the number of votes it takes to pass things. Do the Dems have 2/3 of the seats in the house? No. So how would they pass legislation without the help of SOME Reps. Geez. Did you sleep through your civics class in high school?
Apparently you people slept through Obama's super majority where he could have passed whatever he wanted. Both parties are guilty of no.
Wlee if President Obama had a super majority please explain to everyone how Republicans were able to filibuster everything or needed 60 votes to pass anything. Just asking.
GC, how did he get his Health Care Bill passed,I'll give you a clue super Majority that's right he had 60 votes. No Republican voted for the Health Care Bill
Well, looking at the posts here, I guess they're winning! the old addage 'conquer and divide' come to mind. I don't see any intelligence from either side, not only on this, but on just about every issue that falls to this bunch of proven useless idiots. they are SO busy blaming and pointing fingers that they have lost all concept of the position we voted them in there for. We the people, need to get some people in there that can actually work for OUR needs and not their own greed. Which it seems like all they are there for now.
I would like to go on and say that our Leader should be bringing them together, but it would be meant as the last few 'leaders' NOT just the current President. BTW, I have been a registered Republican for decades, and am darned ashamed that the majority of our illustrious congressmen and women share that moniker when in reality they have lost all concept of what they are doing.
Yep we need term limits real bad. Ron Paul would be change,the rest are the same old fart club that got us where were at.
Then you better work up a Constitutional amendment, because term limits has been DOA at the SCOTUS forever. The high priests of the right are bound and determined to make sure money controls the Congress, and that every dollar lasts as long as the robovoters keep sending 'em back.
Dems buck up. You have been in the driver's seat since the last two years of the Bush Admin. You took a country on a rocky path (I'll admit Republicans lost sight and focus) and drove it straight off a cliff.
Your guy has blown every opportunity he was given and will drive the last nails in the coffin if we remove him and his supporters. You have run out of other people's money to spend. Give conservatives a chance and concentrate on social issues...you just don't get it on economics.
The Republicans have blocked every effort the Dems and Obama have set forth to try and turn this economy around. You are such a fool. What opportunity have the Republicans given Obama? Faux Propaganda News is for the weak minded and easy controlled Republicans. The GOP politicans are just puppets for special interest groups and for your so-called news media. Grow up and stop blaming everyone else.
Teri ,
The dems had a veto proof majority from Jan 2007 thru Jan 2011 and did nothing for the economy ! They still have control of the senate and the presidency !
Explain just how the GOP has blocked EVERYTHING the dems have proposed ?
The PRESIDENT asked for a 1 year extension of the pay roll tax decrease and the SENATE blocked it!
There is none so blind as he who will not see ! Lyrics by I forget who .
As far as weak minded goes look in the mirror and put away the Kool-Aid and save the insults !
Jeff, just how did the dems drive the economy off the cliff the last two years of the Bush admin? They didn't have a veto proof majority, and the sure as hell did not have a filibuster proof majority. So pray tell how did the do this. All bills that were passed had to be signed by Bush. So tell me again how they accomplished what you just said.
Wow, you have a lot of nerve....
By your own admission, the GOP lost focus and drove our country "right off the cliff". The only reason we have run out of money to spend is because Bush provided the largest tax cut in history, that was unpaid for, conducted two wars he refused to account for in his annual budgets, signed a 1.3 trillion "unpaid for" medicare drug supplement plan, refused to properly account for lost revenue under the AMT. Bush spent more in deficit spending than all other presidents combined.
Now you want the American people to give conservatives a second chance?
Wow, you have a lot of nerve....
I'd like to add that in his 8 years as president, Bush never pulled out the VETO pen only once before the Democrats took over the majority in Congress... After that he, vetoed any bill that promoted food safety, conservation, expansion of CHIPS, Katrina Recovery, Iraq Accountability (include costs in annual budget), Medicare Improvement, etc. http://uspolitics.about.com/od/electionissues/tp/Bush-Vetos.htm
And Bush JR broke out his veto pen 12 times in those two years. All against Democrat led bills. All but two stuck.
So who really was in the drivers seat?
Tallman: Apparantly, someone has completely forgotten when the recession began, why it began, and who started two wars off the accounting books? (I'll give you a BIG hint: all that did not happen within the last 2 1/2 years...) but you go right on believing conservatives had nothing at all to do with any of this and that Obama was handed "opportunities"...here on planet earth...we're not buying that load of horse manure again....
"Your guy has blown every opportunity he was given and will drive the last nails in the coffin if we remove him..."
Congratulations!! You mean the exact opposite of what you wrote! Gaaaaawwwwwd!!!
You're wasting your time. Most of these people have been so dumbed down by Republican educational reform that they do not understand basic math. Rush said the Dems had a majority, in their little minds that means they should have been able to do anything they wanted. That is why the Republican party is in the state it is in today. They can't do math, and they can't think for themselves. It wont get any better for a couple of generations as people start to figure out that Forest Gump wasn't a role model.
Just how long are we suppose to let the new coach right the ship two years ,four, eight. He's hired to fix the problem not to continue to blame past coaches. If he can't do the job bring on a new coach. Let the excuses begin.
Wlee why was the previous coach given 8yrs to create this mess? By the way do you think McCain/Palin would have had economy back in the black or unemployment back to 4% in 3yrs? Just asking.
CG, you'll have to ask the people who voted for him. As far as McCain and unemployment I doubt it ,but we'll never truly know.BTW, I'm an Independent who has no problem with seeing what is good in both parties, as well as seeing what is BS.
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b
boehner is no leader he's a puppet, like i said many times we need to get the gops out expecially the tea baggers, everything has to be there way or the highway, well it's time to put the gops on the highway. I kinda upset the Democrats need to not bend to them gops so much, the more u give the more they want, heck with the gops fire them all.....rofl
Wanna talk about a puppet look at YOUR President.
Cliff: Well he's ticking you off, for one, so clearly he's doing something right....
AP:
....and Boehner is ticking you off......see how that works.
Boehner who?
Oh you mean the orange weepy guy who can't get his own party to listen to him? Me? I think he's doing a bang up job...(for the DNC).
At least you don't have to recall Boehner from vacation.............you just recall him from the local watering hole, he is easily found at most any nearby bar during happy hour.
IntheMiddle, unfortunately the blind can't see. marllepew and you would know from what,experience.
wlee,
Yes I was able to find John at the bar, I just look for old pumpkin head, he is the one crying in his drink.
Thanks for clarification, why do you think he's drunk, sounds more like he's watering down his drinks
I'm confused. Wasn't this a cut to Social Security withholding? I know that every administration likes to spend the Social Security as if it were a tax, but isn't it supposed to be our money being put aside for us (by a 'caring' and wanting to control us government)? Will this lead to a sooner SS insolvency?
Does the 'cut' lead to increased income and therefore, increased income tax withholding? Is it really a tax cut or a cleverly disguised tax increase to gain more revenue?
It's all in the presentation.
SS is fiscally solvent until approximately 2032, while the economy is struggling to pull out of a historic recession. We are talking about a tax cut holiday extension, that puts approximately 200 billion back into the economy over a year. Our number one priority TODAY is the economy. The payroll tax cut holiday stimulates the economy by putting approximately $17 each week back into the worker's pocket. That money gets spent on goods and services.
If you want to be concerned about unpaid for tax cuts, start protesting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. Those cuts were NEVER paid for... If it makes you feel any better, you can call it a conspiracy to put more money in American consumer pockets in a hope to prevent another collapse of the already fragile economy.
Ray, those are some pretty good talking points, truth is that low amount ,amounts to nothing. As far as the Bush tax cuts go that"s a bunch of BS too.
17.00 gives me 5.485 gallons of gas that's 82.284 miles in my vehicle, that seems okay for now, but I'd rather let it go, not even half a tank of gas for two months (per the extension) is worth it to me. I protested the tax cuts back when they were implemented by Bush and I'm still protesting them now that they're still being implemented by President Obama, sorry y'all Obama is Bush III.
In 2032 I'll be 57, since I can't opt out of the system I'd like there to be money in the kitty thanks.
wlee - explain your comment about Bush tax cuts? I'm assuming you mean his tax cuts where B.S. Not the explanation about them not being paid for...which they clearly were not. And, $17 extra dollar per week actually means a lot to people who are struggling to even feed their family.
Living, $17 a week isn't even noticed, give a real tax break and do it from payroll and not SS Bush tax cuts did nothing for job creation, less jobs were created under Bush cuts then when Clinton was President
Whenever the GOP doesn't get their way they cry foul and whine like little babies. It's always someone elses fault. How much more can the American people take of the Republicans pro-rich good old boy politics?
Alot, I hope.
All obama has done since he has been in office is blame everyone else for his failures.
You need to watch the news for the past 3 years. Obama is the one with the big money connections, i.e., 1 billion dollars in his campaign fund. Where do you think he got the money from all the poor people he represents? Wake up! The GOP isn't perfect but they want to cut spending. How has Obama done in 3 years? Remember Solyndra? That is only the tip of the iceberg. Obama and his administration is DIRECTLY responsible for the economy NOT recovering after 3 years. His policies are to regulate, government control, spend, spend spend and he is totally ignorant on what makes the economy work. Jobs, businesses, the private sector and free enterprise. When will the poor ignorant people, like you, wake up!
Not really true at all.
Republicans want to cut spending in areas that doesn't fit into their ideology. Just like the Republicans, the Democrats think the same way.
It also is not the role of the President to pass legislation and bills that would be helpful to the nation. There are hundreds of other politicians that are suppose to be doing that.
So, by extension, if you think the President is ignorant, so is everyone in the House and Senate who have done nothing but squabble like 3 year olds over the last cookie.
The house and Senate control the spending, not the President.
Then you ice your cake with a personal attack on another poster. Stay classy.
When Republicans realize that 1) two unfunded wars, 2) prescription benefits that are not paid for, and huge tax cuts while doing #1 and #2 is really spending us into a hole that is going to take a generation to fix. I do not think it is Democrats who need to wake up. Koch and their ilk have been tugging Republicans around by the nose for about 30 years now. You spend spend spend (you call it starving the beast) and then when the public tires of the lies and elects a Democrat capable of thought and reason, you go all racist on everyone and do your best to destroy the country. All the while blaming the people who did not start the unfunded wars and hand out tax breaks at the same time. Yet while you obstruct, you want to blame the other side that nothing gets done to fix the problems. Why are you not honest and state that you are not interested in a solution to our economic problems that you are only using same as an excuse to destroy government and the country with it? You're right, if we bought in to that we would surely be ignorant. No virginia, I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Until you turn off Faux Noise and actually try to learn what happened and how it happened you are and will always be ignorant.
Stanboy is hoping the American people keep taking the Republicans pro-rich good old boy politics? That says it all. What a patriot.
Teri, everything you just said applies to Liberals too, notice I didn't say Democrats because Democrats no longer exist same goes for Republicans. Amused, I think both parties have a hand in unfunded bills 15 trillion debt tells you that.
Terry - well, considering the anti-regulation free enterprise at all costs have caused a worldwide recession, I would say that we need regulation on free enterprise. Just bring back Glass-Steagall and let the banks go under if they're insolvent and I'd be much happier.
I guess nobody has stopped to think that this is our retirement money...pay in less, take less out. No one is going to pay it for you. We paid 6.2% until 2011. I thought the cut was ill advised when it happened, and I still think it is ill advised. By the way, I'm 67, middle class and still working because I can't afford to retire. I don't want my SS benefits cut for any reason.
Clark, I agree with you, I am 66. Why in the hell would they even have had a tax cut into
SS?? Oh, probably to destroy it. What the hell is everyone thinking????
SS is fiscally solvent until approximately 2032, while the economy is struggling to pull out of a historic recession. We are talking about a tax cut holiday extension, that puts approximately 200 billion back into the economy over a year. Our number one priority TODAY is the economy. The payroll tax cut holiday stimulates the economy by putting approximately $17 each week back into the worker's pocket. That money gets spent on goods and services.
If you want to be concerned about unpaid for tax cuts, start protesting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. Those cuts were NEVER paid for...
OK, Clark and Bob, your benefits are in no way affected even in the slightest by this. Not one little bit. If you're worried about not having enough to retire on, you can't blame SS for it. A year or two of modest tax cuts wont make your benefits decrease in a matter you think it will. You might (but highly unlikely, since that isn't how SS is calculated) get pennies less each month.
This isn't a ploy to destroy Social Security.
As Ray pointed out, most of the added money in peoples checks as a result of this, will be put back into the economy. Until the economy recovers, people wont even have jobs to put into SS to begin with.
Our unemployment issue is way more damaging than a tax cut that will result into increased consumer spending. Our biggest enemy against SS funding is currently the millions of unemployed not putting any money into it at all. That requires increased consumer spending, which in return increases demand, which in return increases jobs, which in return increases SS funding.
Please, no one over the age of 65 is going to have their benefits cut. I'm in my early 30s and have been hearing since I was a child how there would be no SS left for my generation when the time comes. So we're the ones that will pay into it all our lives and receive either nothing or a greatly reduced amount compared to what you will receive. Thank you Baby Boomers, for squandering our money.
Clark, I also agree with you. I'm 71 and started paying into SS when I was 17. Something I haven't seen in any of the posts. What the -ell is congress taking a Christmas vacation for anyway. Why are government employees even observing a religious holiday. Seperation of church and state, remember? They should all get back to Washington and get to work.
I'll be 57 and have paid into the system for approx 40+ years by then. That seems fair how?
Indigo- well said, per my last yearly social security statement, as it sits now I will receive approximately 11.00 for every thousand I paid in when I reach retirement age.
The tax cut is out of the payroll but they are not reducing the funding going into the SS system. They're taking it out of the general fund. Please do a little research. Essentially, it becomes more deficit "spending". Obama tried to fund it through a very small tax increase to multi-millionaires but that won't go anywhere w/ this bunch in Congress. Oh wait, the rich are the job producers. I forget. Obviously, w/ the unemployment rate so low it's easy to forget /sarcasm/.
Well, well, well. You voted them in and now they're doing you in! They told you in advance what they were going to do. A group of stubborn, grown men who have no business holding the seats they hold. I bet their families aren't facing foreclosures or looking at near empty pantries. They told you that they'd cutoff our noses to spite our faces and now most of us are about to suffocate because you voted for these idiots!
Thanks.
the reason we are here is because terrible people looking out for them self has been put in office by people voting on something other than running the country wake up people and start voting about $$$$$ issues instead of reliogn which has no part in politics and guns and abortion and you get what you have now bankrupt banks and debt so high can't even count it. scrap the whole tax thing and start over to see what you can come up with......
Boehner still appears to be unstable. He also still looks to be hitting the alcohol a bit on the heavy side. maybe after the Holiday he will sober up a bit.
Or go off on a crying jag....
Dick, and your source for that accusation is?-----I did'nt think so.
Yeah, I mean the blood shot eyes and the mumbling could be just....hard work. ya know, it ain't easy to be beat up on all the time by your own guys...and then go out to the mikes and claim it really feels GOOD....
Stanboy: I can answer that for you. Feisty and her little clutch of friends started it as soon as Boehner took the position, so the rest of the wannabe crowd jumped on the wagon. Never mind that everyone in the country knows at least six people with red cheeks who are stone sober.
Just like the anti Obama posters started right in on the President. Neither side is even close to being innocent. You new to political articles?
I also do not know a single person with red cheeks and I live in NY. Go figure. Please try to refrain from speaking for every person in the nation in the future. Thanks!
As far as Boehner is concerned, it's most likely stress and lack of sleep.
I get stressed too everytime I drink a quart of JD!
Who's family has spent their entire lives making their living by running a bar..... just sayin...
Wow, now all you Liberals are judges as well as genius's and yet look at the state of the country. You call Republicans the uneducated yet they are the 1% go figure, the poor and down trodden are supposedly the Democrats as well as the highly educated maybe you should check your prejudices.
Proof positive about who the incompetents are in Washington. Progressives have been pointing this out to the American public for 3 years, now it is undeniable. T-pugs are the problem in Washington! Take 'em out!
Just keep the Regressives out!!!
Yup Boehner disoriented again and obviously hitting the sauce, Newt stays in the background sucking up while looking for a host to suck blood from, keeping his loach like reputation, Mit is still wondering about why his hard drives overshadow his 31/2" floppy, and Bachmann is still waxing those 3" long nose hairs before her next speech. What a line up! Meet the Bozos!
I guess by "T-Pugs" you mean Tea Party Republicans. How utterly Callous and unthinking. You literally donot have a clue what you are even talking about. Why do people like you persist in using pure hatred to define your opponents? But please keep it up because it keeps the adrenalin flowing in our veins and perks us up for the real fight that's coming in 2012. You see, you are persuading absolutely nobody with your odd vernacular. Funny thing, the word "pug",though totally nonsensical in this context, is actually close to what we are -- tough, determined, political activists who believe in their cause. At least we aren't union pugs, we are idealogists and willing to fight for what we know is right. Union pugs just follow blindly, but we use words instead of fists, and that makes us think. Sample of our thinking: unions are the enemy of our nation, Libs are misguided wannabe rebels, race is not a fit subject of political debate, and Barak Obama has to go. But we don't hit below the belt.
I think it more goes to Repugnant. Which is what the Tea Party terrorists are. You hold no core values and have no solutions. You just know you don't like the status quo. Join the proud crowd, no one likes the status quo, but selling out our country to the Koch brothers, destroying government because you are not intelligent enough to figure out how to fix it, is morally corrupt. So stow your self-rightousness it is unbecoming. You folks want to cry that we spend too much, but it was your party who did the spending! We didn't start two wars and then give away tax breaks. We didn't give the country TARP and the banks all of our money. You have no solutions. At least Democrats are trying, where your loonies in congress will let them and not obstruct them. Your obsession with debt during a time of recession only shows us an incapacity for logic and reason as well as a lack of caring for your fellow man. Yes, the Tea Party are a bunch of gems. You all were very willing to call Democrats and Liberals names at your rallies. I know, because here in Kansas we get to see your rallies all the time, with their outright racist overtones, your guns always present, your sad little attempt at intimidation. You reap what you sow. Live with it.
Amused, try looking up the definition of terrorist you so callously throw around just like the highly over and misused word racist. You rant as if the Democrats have nothing to do with our problem that 15 trillion comes from both parties. In case you missed it 9/11 started one of the wars at least be a little honest. Your comment on Republicans have no solutions, I suggest you look at the door of the Senate where several bills languish. Tell me how do you feel about the Jews? I'm sure you support OWS.
Hate to burst your little right wing bubble, but you are incorrect. First, I don't support OWS, I don't like their tactics, you don't change a country by pooping on cars. I do, however, share many of their concerns.
All one has to do is go to a tea party rally to see racism first hand. I'm not going to argue with you about it, you have plainly never been to one of their rallies or you do not know how to recognize racism. In Kansas they happen all the time. Just last week a Tea Party in Kansas was called to task for openly publishing their racism on their web site. It exists, quit ignoring it and defending it. You might not feel it yourself, but if you Tea Party, your friends DO!
9/11 started no war. And my point was not that the Afghan war was not legitimate, it is that the previous administration didn't fund it and in fact gave back part of the revenue that should have been used to pay for it. If you want to cry that the government is broke, you have to start here. The country was chugging along nicely before Bush decided that we didn't need a surplus, we didn't need to pay on deficits, they don't matter, let's just give it back. He was an idiot, largely responsible for where we are today. You want to blame Obama, go ahead, in your delusional world he somehow caused this, but thinking people know better. He hasn't done as much as any of us would have liked to help right the ship, but he has also been obstructed at every turn so in the interests of fairness, I'm not prepared to blame him for not fixing what the right wing would not let him fix.
From the World Dictionary:
Terrorist - a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon
Terrorism - the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce,especially for political purposes.
Now, when you hold a country hostage. When you say you will not help unemployed people who need help, when you say that you do not care about seniors on social security who survive by no other means, when you say to soldiers in uniform serving in harm's way that you do not care if they receive the pay they need to support their families, what do YOU call it? This is what the Tea Party did when it came time to raise the debt ceiling, an act that, until these loons got to Washington, was simply automatic, as it should be. My country pays its bills. It is, even to the simple right wing mind, terrorism. And if you re-read my comments you will note that they were directed at Tea Party supporters.
Jews are fine. Blind support for the policies of Israel is one day going to lead to our destruction. I support Israel most of the time, but not in all cases. Republicans just don't get that blind support isn't wise.
The Bills that "languish" in the Senate.... Have you read them? One and all are blatant attempts to take away rights from women, gays, and other marginalized segments of society. They attempt to destroy elements of our social safety net. They are NOT jobs bills. Republicans just think that people are that stupid. They are right wing social engineering. They were DOA as they should have been. Come back with something real, that tries to build up and not tear down and we have a place to start talking.
Amused once again I'm amused I'm neither left nor right nor even Tea Party, I would call myself a truth seeker,and from what i see it's limited here. Terrorist please, if you chose obstructionist maybe, but that would swing both ways. Who said they wouldn't help unemployed? They wanted it funded differently then the Dems, same goes for the tax break. Bush tax cuts are a farce so was the Health Care Bill, which if you were a friend of Obama you got a waiver. Truth can be a hard pill to swallow. Tea Party has some legitimate concerns with tax's and balanced budget, but need to realize you need to negotiate. OWS had some true concerns but were hi-jacked by the fringe. As far as 9/11 not starting a war are you serious? What exactly would you have done? No I'm not aware of all bills sent to the Senate and apparently you aren't either. Yes I do support the Jews and do it with my eyes open. BTW where have I blamed Obama for our debt crisis. Loved your description of me rightwing delusional check with your kids I'm sure they can help you with a few more. You shouldn't bring up the debt ceiling argument knowing that Obama voted against it when Bush was President. BTW should we really be calling it a debt ceiling, as it's obvious there is no ceiling.
And therein lies the problem for the entire country. There are several "truths" out there. Pick your poison.