Good morning Feisty

Tell us again that the Tea Party doesn’t provide cover for racists?

Make that FOX

Over @ the KKK channel aka FOX NOISE they have the nerve to bring in some hack to justify (LIE) why attorney General Eric Holder statement that the republicans were picking on him because of his color and is pictured as being an extension of President Obama is racist.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-friends/index.html#/v/1332238592001/keeping-score-dwight-howard-trade-talks/?playlist_id=86912

Listening to Boehner whine and complain about a temporary, two-month extention of the payroll tax cuts being unacceptable and kicking the can down the road is laughable at best and pathetic at worst in addition to being a deception. Maybe he should have a conversation with his fililbustering GOP Senate friends because they are the ones who refuse to allow anything else to the floor for debate.

Feisty, that makes me so angry as well as sick to my stomach. Where's Ron Paul's denouncement of such a despicable comment.

Ron Indiana,

Whether endorsements are important or not, the recent spate of politicians lining up behind Romney is a reflection of the Republican Party's fear that Gingrich might just get the nomination. And the Grinch's latest comments about abolishing courts and calling justices to testify before Congress about their decisions terrifies even them. With the Grinch as president, you can forget about the separation of powers. There goes the Constitution. What a nut!

Good Morning Bev & Phinephancy;

As you probably know by now... there aren't too many things that render me speechless.

Sadly, this is something that did!

What the hell is wrong with these people???

Good-bye Middle Class, we hardly knew ye. The middle class is really an aberration, and it could not have existed anywhere but in this slice of earth we call the United States. Blessed with a wealth of natural resources, fertile soil, and virtually perfect weather, failure was almost impossible. The industrial revolution propelled us at incredible speed through our agrarian years, to a world leader in the production of virtually all manufactured goods.

Yet, even with untold wealth filling American coffers, the age-old division of an upper class and a lower class was still the order of the day. We still had crushing depressions and recessions and grinding poverty. Then, from the carnage of WW II, this phenomenon called the middle class arose.

So great was our production capacity, we could create wealth in amounts that in the past were inconceivable. So enormous was that wealth that the rich were getting richer; so rich they didn't mind if some crumbs fell from their overflowing tables. Thus was the middle class born. A worker could stand on an assembly line doing nothing more than putting door handles on cars, yet still earn enough to buy a home for his family. Farmers increased production on an unimaginable scale. There was not a statistic to be found that didn't show we were leading the world in every economic measurement.

We became wastrels and spendthrifts. We polluted our air, our water, and our soil. We forgot the lessons of the great depression, and our parents were all too happy for that to be the case. We wanted for nothing. If our parents had finally found a way to the comfort of a promised land, the boomers were born in that land. The boomers were born with a sense of entitlement. That's right! The boomers. We were entitled to whatever we wanted, and what we wanted was MORE!

We set up a tax code that allowed us to deduct the mortgage interest on our homes. We gave ourselves exemptions for ourselves and our children. We could deduct consumer interest. We could deduct state sales taxes. We gave ourselves child care tax credits. After all, it now took both parents to pay for MORE!

Oh, there were a few problems here and there. Families started to fall apart. The Viet Nam adventure introduced us to drugs in a big way. Welfare programs produced a dependent class. Still, a booming consumption economy put more money in our pockets than it took out.

Today, the boomers have given themselves Medicare and Social Security. Even if we were stupid and didn't save, our kids are going to pay for our medical care and give us a monthly check. Even though many of us own our homes, can afford medical care, well dammit, we're entitled to that money and we're going to take it, and by gum those kids and grandkids we're so worried about are going to pay it. And they don't understand why they should. After all, they were born to entitled parents. They think work is sitting behind a computer terminal making pretty graphics. They think work is twisting numbers around. They think work is pontificating on social justice, and they think they are worth a great deal of money.

They think they're entitled. But we know better. It's the boomers who are entitled. We are the middle class, and when we die, so does the middle class. And our kids? Well, not to worry, the government will take care of them. They're doing a wonderful job. How do we know? We got ours!

@Feisty

Had I seen that first, I would now be out buying a new monitor. I probably would have thrown the one I had at the wall in a fit of rage and disbelief!

How low has the GOP/TP come? Everytime I think they hit bottom, they manage to go lower!

Ron Indiana

Endorsements:

I'm not so sure the pundits are right when it comes to endorsements. I'm beginning to believe that an endorsement from a politician or newspaper has little to no value. Certainly an endorsement has never swayed my vote.

I agree.

Now that Sarah Palin is savoring who she will endorse I believe whomever she backs will sink Personally, I think Nicki Haley who was backed by Palin only endorsed Mitt because her approval sunk to 34% and she needed to do something to bring them up. Perhaps Haley thinks she can capture the approval of the moderate right

Ron, thoughtful post. Definitely the pundits get carried away with endorsements. I think most endorsements have little impact on voters but occasionally they can sway someone who is leaning toward a candidate but isn't completely convinced but it likely has little to no impact on a voter who is leaning toward someone else.

Christie endorsed Romney within days of announcing for the umpteenth time that he would not run. Haley, along with most of those TP governors who were elected in 2010, have very low approval numbers so the only ones who might be influenced are those who "approve" of them.

@Jody

Christie is now playing coy with the idea of being the veep choice for Romney. Just a little FYI.

I have wondered all year whether John Boehner was playing with us---saying the Republican tea party caucus wouldn't support votes but only as an excuse for the obstructionism of the whole party. Now I'm starting to think he has absolutely no control over any of them---that is real leadership, isn't it?

David Walker, thought-provoking post.

Good morning Bev. So true.

Over @ the KKK channel aka FOX NOISE they have the nerve to bring in some hack to justify (LIE) why attorney General Eric Holder statement that the republicans were picking on him because of his color and is pictured as being an extension of President Obama is racist.

Steeler Fan,

Now I'm starting to think he [Boehner] has absolutely no control over any of them

That's it exactly. And what that likely means is that Cantor will be the next Speaker of the House (unless the Democrats win it back), and that's really scary!

so the general line here seems to be that all Tea Party folks are racist based on the views of the individual quoted in the first post.

with that backdrop, the OWS must also all be racists, drug addicts, alcoholics, sex predators and on and on.

gross generalizations of any group is highly unfair and just plain wrong and exceptionally biased.

i find the views recorded in the first post to be greatly offensive but i will not condemn an entire group of people because of it just as i will not condemn all of OWS for the things i mention above.

i am not a legal person but that sure seems to me to be illegal and i do hope the secret service acts.

The House races this year will be fascinating.

Polls show people loathe Congress and that more people blame Republicans in the House than Democrats for the cluster bleep that we have today.

Will the Teaparty primary those it finds insufficiently conservative? Does the Teaparty brand still garner support and respect from the rest of the Republican party, or has it become an albatross around the GOP's waddle-laden neck?

Will the almost unanimous vote by the Republican party (The Paul Ryan Plan to Kill Medicare) to turn Medicare over to insurance executives have the impact many pundits think possible, or will it be a non-issue?

Will the bill that so outraged Republicans (the ACA, aka Obamacares (why yes he does, thanks for noticing)) still be an issue given that both likely Republican nominees either supported a version of the plan or actually installed the same plan? Will the Teaparty care? Or was their protests against said plan just more faux outrage?

I wish I could remember where I read it this weekend, but it said that Cantor and Boehner do NOT get along and it is Cantor running the show.

Jody, Iowa

Feisty, that makes me so angry as well as sick to my stomach. Where's Ron Paul's denouncement of such a despicable comment.

Jody, Ron Paul is a racist.

Ron Paul made this remark about black people stoppin to go home during the LA riots only because it was time to pick up their welfare checks.

10 Quotes That Make Ron Paul Sound Racist

1. ‎”We don’t think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That’s true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such.”

2. “What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn’t that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?”

3. ”Six-hundred-thousand Americans died in the senseless Civil War. No, he should not have gone to war. He did this just to enhance and get rid of the original tenet of the Republic.” -Regarding the Civil War

4. ”Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal. These aren’t my figures, that is the assumption you can gather from” the report.”

5. “Contrary to the claims of the supporters of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the sponsors of H.Res. 676, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not improve race relations or enhance freedom. Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty.” -On the 40th Anniversary of the Civil Rights Act

6. “The Criminals who terrorize our cities – in riots and on every non-riot day – are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are.”

7. “I wouldn’t vote against getting rid of the Jim Crow laws.” -When asked if he would have voted for the Civil Rights Act.

8. “Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action.”

9. “Immigrants can spread diseases for which we may have no immunity. There is also the question of crime and culture. Many immigrants come from countries with different legal structures and are not willing to behave in the way we expect American citizens to behave.”

10. “There is no such thing as a hate crime.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/07/10-quotes-that-make-ron-paul-sound-racist/

Manson -

Needs to spent some quality time in Prison, for a very long time. Disgusting.

Obama in 2012.

Beverly in Chicago

Thanks for the link, however it looks like Fux News has removed the video regarding

Over @ the KKK channel aka FOX NOISE they have the nerve to bring in some hack to justify (LIE) why attorney General Eric Holder statement that the republicans were picking on him because of his color and is pictured as being an extension of President Obama is racist.

@Bev

Those Ron Paul remarks kinda reminds me of the Know Nothing's of 1854!

Manson, a failed politician, recently ran for and lost a seat on the City of Carson’s City Council last March.

The following is the text of Manson’s racist, treasonous, deplorable post:

“Assassinate the f----- n----- and his monkey children”

Well it shouldn't be a shocker that a Tea Bag is dumb enough to run for public office ran for election in Carson, CA (a minority community) with that kind of attitude it's no wonder he failed.

A Tea Bag showing his true colors, isn't that refreshing!

@ David Walker Social Security was started in the 30's how do you figure the baby boomers voted it in? Further more i am a baby boomer have gone to collage and raised my children as hard workers i live very modestly like most baby boomers i know i have never been on wellfare or collected unemployment i have lived at times for years with 4 children on no more then 7 thous a year and not that long ago. I have never felt entitled. My paychecks have been deducted of SS and Medicare all my life and yes i damn well wanted it when i retired. Politicians caused all of this mess with corruption and greed, all while pulling the wool over the baby boomers eyes which are now starting to slowly wake up!

phinephancy-4252115

I wish I could remember where I read it this weekend, but it said that Cantor and Boehner do NOT get along and it is Cantor running the show.

It's obvious the Kantor has a knife stuck so deep in the Boner back that if is taken out John Boehnor would not exist. Eric Cantor has a fantasy that he can be the speaker and Leader of the Tea Nuts. There was a time the boner could be reasonable. Once I read where the Kantor told Boner if he didn't straighten up he and the Rea Party would primary Boehner.

Jules Manson, is he any relation to Charlie? He was an extreme nut job too.

Once I read where the Kantor told Boner if he didn't straighten up he and the Rea Party would primary Boehner

Make no mistake - Cantor wears the pants in THAT relationship! ☺

Don't forget Bev - King Grover is waiting in the shadows as well...

One has to hope the Secret Service will be paying this douche bag a visit in the very near future!!!

If the story is true, I would fully agree with you. But I notice the link you provided is a dead link. So I'm not yet convinced there's someone out there stupid enough to threaten the president on their Facebook page.

@Feisty & Bev

Do you think the orange man bends over for the weasel and says "Please, sir, may I have another?" (Kevin Bacon line in Animal House)

They think they're entitled. But we know better. It's the boomers who are entitled. We are the middle class, and when we die, so does the middle class. And our kids? Well, not to worry, the government will take care of them. They're doing a wonderful job. How do we know? We got ours!

Ouch! Dave that was a tad bit harsh but ground in the truth. But not to worry the GOTP is hard at work making your vision a reality.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Hey Bev - Did you see where our very own Mark Kirk (R) IL will be endorsing Mittens?

Clearly, the GNOP 'establishment' is lining up, like all good ditto-heads!

Feisty, What irks me more is Kirk and Manchin's opposition to payroll tax cut extension proposals.

Kirk and "Deadbeat Dad" are an embarrassment to our state.

phinephancy-4252115

@Feisty & Bev

Do you think the orange man bends over for the weasel and says "Please, sir, may I have another?" (Kevin Bacon line in Animal House)

Yes, if it's a drink.

@Mr. Me First Bill - I don't know what happened to that link but try one of these;

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ca%20politician%20calls%20for%20assasination%20of%20obama&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yourblackworld.com%2F2011%2F12%2F19%2Fca-politician-calls-for-assassination-of-obama-and-his-monkey-children%2F&ei=rFfvTpCqI6bY2gWCmtylDw&usg=AFQjCNFC3WWFpTm5grepEHD37CXoNAeROA

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/12/18/ca-politician-ron-paul-supporter-posts-racist-call-for-assassination-of-pres-obama-and-daughters/

http://forum.the-dispatch.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3047&start=0&sid=ad8350bbbce6dd7121e4139682428946

Robert-1960

Beverly in Chicago

Thanks for the link, however it looks like Fux News has removed the video

Robert, Don't worry FUX NOISE puts that kind of hate out for their ECHO CHAMBER like Briebart, Eric the Red et al to elaborate on. BTW: DARREL Issa will not into News Corp. phone hacking

Issa stated that he trusts News. Corp because he “personally knows Rupert Murdoch.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/issa-declines-investigation-into-news-corp-phone-hacking/

Wait here is another I predict he will not investigate.

Inspector’s Probe Of Fast And Furious Likely Encompasses Bush-Era ‘Gun Walking
December 16, 2011

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/inspectors_probe_of_fast_and_furious_likely_encompasses_bush-era_gun_walking.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

=============================================

It turns out people were killed during the Bush era. Now the question remain since the documents prove it, will Issa investigate. My short answer "NOPE!!!"

If the agent had been black would they investigate? Again "NOPE"

Of course, tie the idiot's comments in with racism... It's the best out for liberalism. I say he's an idiot because anyone posting something on facebook like that is clearly not sane. Just the repercussions of stating that the president (no matter what color he is) should be shot is cause to quesition anyone's sanity... but that's just my take on it...

The liberal take is to throw the entire Tea Party under the bus due to one person. Sorry, I can't justify that cause in reason. But we do know that liberals always think below the belt. I tend to be a little more cerebral and logic prevails.

Since the liberals are always looking for little chinks in the armor, and when they find one, their natural tendency is to blow the whole thing out of proportion. Just look at all the comments above that prove my point. The liberals feast on things like this... but totally ignore anything that eminates from the left.

"Gingrich vs. the judiciary:....resonate with conservative voters"

Yeah if you want a fascist dictatorship. Are these people for real???????????????????

In reply to the ramblings about what us boomers accomplished or didn't. Those programs were brought on by our parents, and their parents. They sought a better, fairer way . Things were good. It wasn't the middle class that caused the meltdown, though we did have a hand in electing those that did cause this. During those times of great wealth we started to give the richest of all large tax breaks. We de-regulated business. Corporations were allowed to send jobs overseas. Their profits grew and grew. More tax breaks for the job creators. The middle class was left holding the bag, an empty one. Note; we had drugs available before Viet Nam. Just my two cents on the way I see it.

Don't really feel too concerned with threats to politicians after the calls for Bush and Cheney to killed by some of you on your posts. After being called racists and accused of trying to "kill" the middle class and old people are going to starve, you libs should be used to this sort of stuff. It's amusing to watch the hand-wringing and sissy crying acts you go through everytime. Like clock work. It doesn't work. Remember 2010!!!

Feisty,

I hope you would not let a comment from one angry washed up politician represent the whole group. If you do seems like you are just as bad as the guy that made the comment. Every group has its extremist and failures even your own.

As an open minded citizen, I want the right person in office regardless of any attributes associated.

Can someone please tell me why Obama should get a second term and do it without bashing the republicans?

I hope you would not let a comment from one angry washed up politician represent the whole group

The problem is, this isn't a one time incident!

There is a clear pattern of racists hinding out in the tea party & the fact that they embrace them speaks volumes for what they represent!

Why is a two month extension a good thing?

LMAO! the libs sure can produce funny comments with little substance. What ever happened to all of their "good nornings" and "Have a good weekend" commebts from august 2010?

I see that the stupidity of most of the FR liberal posters is in full bloom today with the joker fiesty wanting to lead the way.

I am sure that they can come up with links saying that all murders (assasinations if you will), rapes, assualts, thefts, etc can be laid at the feet of the right. Good luck with that girls.

Tiggle,

I suggest you get out from under the daily brain-washings of Rush and others and look at real news and accomplishments of your President. Then compare that to the many failings of Newton Blingrich and then make your decision.

There are violent, racist loons on the right and the left. Attempting to paint everyone in a political movement with extremist statements is just empowering the loons with more respect than they deserve.

My advice is to stop looking at who said what, and start focusing on the merits of individual ideas. I don't care if a good idea comes from a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or my cat...all I care about is the merits of the idea. (and my cat's not too bright, but he seems smarter than some politicians we elect :-)

Harry and the Senate Democrats fail once again............kiched the can again!!!

Oh the outrage!

Where's the outrage at the Occupier that actually took a couple shots at the White House and got arrested and charged with the attempted assassination of the President.

Not much coverage or scorn directed at OWS over that. See when a liberal goes off the rails it's isolated but when a conservative does it it's the entire group.

Is Manson this guy's real name? Someone else scary has that name. Maybe this guy should join his namesake.

By the by

The tea party has been around for three plus years. OWS for 5 or 6 months.

There have been ZERO shootings associated with Tea party event.

There have been two shootings (I believe both fatal) at OWS events.

Don't really feel too concerned with threats to politicians after the calls for Bush and Cheney to killed by some of you on your posts.

Please give us a link to prove your post or other wise it's just rubbish RP. Thanks!

Kim Heitz:

If the shoe fits, wear it, if not, don't. Not all baby boomers are unaware of the manner in which they have looted the system. I believe an even greater number are unaware how the rich, in partnership with the government they have purchased, are re-directing virtually all wealth into their pockets. There is absolutely no other interpretation of wealth distribution that fits today's statistical measures.

You would do yourself a great favor by checking the progression of Social Security legislation over the years. Originally, Social Security was a very limited plan. It has changed dramatically over the years, and today includes quite a number of separate programs that did not exist in 1933-1935. It was NOT supposed to function as a retirement fund for all. Today, the main program is precisely that.

Just for the heck of it, go back and look at your contributions when you were 16. FICA withholding rates were a fraction of what they are today, and even then the rates applied to only a small amount of earnings. In 1965, Medicare withholding was .35%. There is no way that could fund the level of care we expect today. We did not pay our way. Like it or not, that's a fact. Blame government, blame the tooth fairy, it doesn't matter. The fact is we didn't pay enough.

I don't know what happened to that link but try one of these

Miss Feisty -- the first link you provided does not identify the source of the story, while the other two identify the same dead link in your original post -- a link that may well have died because the accuracy of the story is in question. So to my eye there's something fishy going on here, and I wouldn't be too quick to believe it just yet.

Beverly in Chicago,

I went to your source and they don't list the when and where or source of all these racist comments that Ron Paul made. Is this credible? Something makes me question it all. These comments are so inflammatory that I don't want to accuse anyone of making them without a solid reputable source. I am no Ron Paul fan however he is the only consistent Republican on the stage. All the rest, except for maybe Huntsman, are hypocrites! I would really love the when, where and who of those comments.

Newt,

I don't listen to Rush. I read on these blogs many strong comments either for or against each party but I'm not really seeing anything substantial on Obama's accomplishments -- just a lot of Republican bashing that, for a good part, they've earned.

We have his healthcare plan but I know the expected benefits of which will not be felt for up to 10 years as it is fully implemented.

I know we have over $15T in national debt and over $116T in unfunded liabilities. I don't see anyone talking about the larger number and how this will be handled.

I know Obama wants the tax cut extended (so do I because it helps me) but I also know it's money the government has to take in or borrow.

I believe the very, very wealthy have no problem paying their fair share in taxes (because capital gains and shell companies allow them to escape middle class tax rates) but I don't see a plan to fix this. I know congress has a large hand here but Obama is the top dog.

Our education system is falling behind the rest of the world. Does Obama have a plan to fix this? I ask because I don't know.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not some sneaky Republican trying to make a point. I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to vote for and so far there's nobody unless there's some real arguments that I'm missing.

I agree with all of you, Pheew that's not easy to say. Anyone that in anyway threatens anyone's life should be investigated. Even a veiled threat against a public official should never be tolerated, specially the President no matter who he or she is. I too am not able to get to any link that proves this happened, so I will consider it to be false. Not to say there are not idiots like that on both sides of this coin.

Deleted

Even the Grinch's heart grew three sizes at Christmas time: Republicans hearts just shrunk three sizes.

Brianb-999431

Of course, tie the idiot's comments in with racism... It's the best out for liberalism. I say he's an idiot because anyone posting something on facebook like that is clearly not sane. Just the repercussions of stating that the president (no matter what color he is) should be shot is cause to quesition anyone's sanity... but that's just my take on it...

Where on earth do you live, in a cave? I'm not ready to throw the whole Tea Party under the bus, but it does seem to "allow" more racist slants than most "real" parties... when you are wholistically against Obama, the racist crazies will join you in droves. But to deny racism on what was posted is just sticking your head in the sand. These people exist everywhere and pop their ugly heads out frequently... he's likely one of them based on what was posted.

Boehner has no one but Boehner in his interests. He's a changed man, of late. Look at his actions of the past and you'll see an excessively political figure head that supported whatever came his way. But today, with Cantor at his "side", he is trying to be "the advocate"... for what we may never know, but he's standing for something based on Cantor and the Tea Party influence. The fact that Boehner has no idea what he's doing is why virtually everything he's gotten involved in has been screwed up. If you make up your convictions as the wind blows, this is what you get... false steps, daily false drama, absolutely no clear path forward. Is he an alcoholic?... He has the traits of one.

David Walker, a very thought-provoking post. I wouldn't take it as far as you did with the demonizing of virtually all social solutions and what they drive, but I agree with your direction.

Tiggle:

This is not a battle of ideas. This is about a Congress that is far more concerned about holding office than solving our problems. Lest that sound too glib, you need only look at results. Under BOTH Republicans and Democrats the debt has continued to climb, incredibly so in the last 30 years. For all the talk, the fact is it has climbed faster under Republicans than Democrats. That's like the difference between drowning in 10 feet of water and drowning in 12 feet of water. You still drown.

In years passed, we might have expected the health care plan to expand greatly to the extent that the nation would be able to offer health care to all. Such an expansion may not occur now as it did with our two largest major social programs - Social Security and Medicare. They have expanded far beyond their original concept. However, if you will note my earlier post at .8 and Kim Heitz' post at .27, more people prefer to ignore reality than to face it. (Somehow the 40% of the budget that is borrowed was someone else's fault. Entitlement at its American best.)

In a similar vein, no one has a plan to fix the education system because its failure means identifying the problem. That would be parents. Politicians NEVER blame parents. Other political constituencies are also at risk. Republicans dare not offend the "no-tax-under-any circumstances-crowd" and Democrats do not want to offend teachers and union folks.

The only reason to vote for Democrats rather than Republicans is simply because they are not as dangerous. It's that 10' of water vs. 12'. However, if the Republicans are decisively defeated, Congress has to take note. That's a mandate.

Most of us know what has to be done. We have to cut spending. That means making cuts that are going to make you mad. In fact, everyone is going to be angry. The question is, if we put Democrats in a solid majority, do they have the guts to do what has to be done? Cut AND tax. Republicans have made clear they will NOT tax the rich. That's just plain stupid. So there's your choice. Do you hope Democrats suddenly find courage or do you choose Republicans who are just plain stupid?

*** Either miscommunication or a reversal: Boehner’s decision over the weekend not to support the bipartisan two-month extension represents either a miscommunication with McConnell (who appeared to be under the impression that the House would pass whatever reasonable deal McConnell, Kyl, et al would come up with) or a full reversal for the House speaker.

No miscommunication or a reversal. Boehner made it clear they weren't voting for this bill because it is only for 2 months. He stated the economy has been hurt by all these temporary spending bill measures, and this bill would be more of the same. We have been waiting for a budget for nearly 3 years now. The House has tried to accomplish this only to be shot down by the Senate. The Senate brings forth more of the same that has been hurting us for the last 3 years. The Senate is the problem and they need to get on board NOW!

And to Feisty, your original post is partly incorrect. Tea Party does not equal Libertarian. The fact they posted it on Facebook does not equal their support. And I do think the Secret Service should visit the person who made the comment. ( Provided the comment was actually made, and made by this person.) No one should threaten the President, or his family, no matter how bad a job he has done.

Of COURSE Boehner is opposed to payroll tax cuts. He hates the middle class and he doesn't want any jobs created until AFTER the next election.

Unless of course you are willing to swap out your retireement account by giving the whole think to the rich folk in exchange for that two month payroll tax cut.

Congress isn't about governing for the people, it's all about keeping power in the party.

For those of you commenting about the nutjob who stated those unkind words about the President, yes, he should be looked into, and he will be. But to categorize all non-Obama believers as racist also, is painting a broad brush-stroke at a group who just doesn't like the policies of this administration. We are all not racist, nor are we all idiots as some of you liberals continually state we are because we don't buy into the progressive brand of spending to keep us on the plantation.

And Bev, before you cut and paste something for my last statement, I find you just as racial in your statements as that nutjob from the right.

Feisty,

Maybe if you would stop looking so hard you would stop noticing every one is it out to get you. Or maybe you just don't have anything better to do. Personally, I have never meet a racist tea party member, but then again I have never meet a tea party member at all. But there are quite a few liberals here on this site that are just as rascist or just as bad as the one of which you speak.

Raab...

[Where's the outrage at the Occupier that actually took a couple shots at the White House...]

There is no proof that the mentally ill individual who took a pot shot at the White House was an OWS'er. There is proof, however, that he used an OWS camp as cover.

Sooo....FAIL...

[There have been two shootings (I believe both fatal) at OWS events.]

And as far as your quote goes, one shooting happened a few blocks from an encampment in an area known for several drug-related shooting deaths PER WEEK, and had no ties to OWS, and the other was a suicide by an OWS'er...but if you find the sad story of someone so desperate that they feel suicide is the only way out funny or entertaining in some bizarre way, you have MUCH BIGGER problems than Obama being president and I hope you soon seek the help you so desperately need...

Sooo...that would be EPIC FAIL on your "by the by"...

You people need to get a life. Same loonies everyday on here. Boehner wants a YEARS extension, not 2 months. Can't you people read? I can see it now, our beloved President using that as a tool to make the Repug's look bad, the same tool used by both parties against each other. The President is a failure, so he screams, "if not for me it would be worse". Then the repug's say no "your not up for the job". Funny, Obama isn't up for the job, and Congress is dysfunctional. Welcome to the USA!

commonsence (post 1,64) - thanks for showing us all that you have no commensence.

Boehner wants a full years extension the senate doesn't.

In line with job creation what part of the pipeline won't create jobs other than obama not wanting private sector jobs.

Please do try the environment approach for that won't wash either.

Do you really think that we are novices in pipeline design and construction? Do you really think that the corp of engineers and their consultants are so incompetent that alternate routes weren't studied? Do you really think that obama isn't just another can kicking politician?

All ventures entail risk, some even to the environment. Risk can be identified and minimized. If one wants to say any risk to the environment makes a project a no go, then forget about any highways, bridges or any other construction or manufacturing endeavor.

Mighty jealous about the wealthy aren't you. Please share with us what chaps your hide more?

Those inheriting it? Those having the willingness to pursue it and often failing a few times before success? They didn't give you YOUR fair share of what they worked for? That you failed to realize that your retirement plan was subject to market swings?

David Walker - I think your thoughts are mostly correct but a bit general. I think the Political Arena itself has become a self serving Device. Meant to serve the public has been replaced by Serve special Interest that financed your campaign. Make no mistake about it, both parties are financed by Special Interest.

It just so happens the Groups who fund Democrats are usually liberal and generally want to help even those who will not help themselves. Republicans are basically owned by Wall Street and People like Sarah Palin can make an upper class living basically doing nothing but spinning the talking points of the week.

Ultimately we must remove the money from POLITICS, the true courage will be displayed by the American People who have such diverse views it seems impossible to agree on anything.

As long as we can't come together on basic issues, then the Political Arena has its audience and a divided audience pays well...

Continued dysfunction from the republicans. Feisty, have not seen nor heard of your claim of that terrible news. Fully believe it tho. Koch bros. defined and lead this hate agenda from the beginning of this administration. When a party has allowed itself to bring this much dishonor to american politics, it is very easy to see through.

Feisty, so glad you posted this piece of reprehensible partisan garbage. It is appalling to read this and know it was made by a fellow citizen. I hope the Secret Service and or the FBI have taken note.

I am waiting to see if any any republican/tp will denounce this, my guess is no, as that is their usual pattern. I have no respect for anyone who has an R beside their name for this very reason, none whatsoever.

commonsense - the payroll tax cut is hurting everyone who will "receive" SSI benefits when they retire. We are robbing Peter to pay Paul. The couple of bucks I'm getting a week is not significant and does not impact my spending habits. Intelligent people already know this. The Payroll tax cut is nothing but a vote buy. A feeble attempt to portray those who support this as benefactors of the middle class when in fact, they're hurting the middle class. The Republicans are more interested in real bills that will make a positive impact only, not a faux positive one in sheep's clothes.

For links about Manson's call to assassinate the President and his family, just Google "Jules Manson assassinate" or visit his Facebook page.

The "tanned one" is a joke of a leader(and no, I don't mean Obama. I mean the Boner!!!).

There is no proof that the mentally ill individual who took a pot shot at the White House was an OWS'er. There is proof, however, that he used an OWS camp as cover.

You come up with some beauties....you crack me up Mickey.

And the shooting was over a bag of weed, was 30 feet outside the camp. And the reporter that was trying to take a video of the murder scene sustained a concussion from being beaten by an Occupier (or maybe it was another one using the camp as "cover" that beat him).

There's no way around the mess we're in other than to cut spending and raise taxes, (as David Walker points out). The endless wars, the failure of both parties to understand that as life expectancies increased, so should have Social Security withholding or the retirement age. I don't need SS benefits and believe that we are going to be forced to go to a means testing for benefits.

We're tapped out and all we hand the younger generation is a growing $14T bar tab. Make the government live within it's means and give a little. 2 wars and a tax cut at the same time was a joke. We'll feel the results for decades to come--as will the younger generation.

To America's youth--I'm sorry that we screwed it up by electing idiots for a full generation.

Tax and cut the bloated defense budget and foreign aid. It's not the DoD's money---it's yours.

Raab...

You're still in EPIC FAIL mode...but I don't blame you...after all, you have to at least try, right?

Feisty, Phine & Newday....

Please don't fall into the trap of allowing one lunatic to color you entire opinion, I know your leanings, please don't join the maddened crowd.

If those allegations are true the Secret Service is on top of it and he should be liberated from his freedom shortly.

To all the others that want to claim that Dr Paul is a racist based upon newsletters posted in his name years ago, they were debunked years ago. I have a few links for you to peruse before deciding that he is a racist.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhv3paNz6U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMIPTu3YdBQ&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ji_Ft23BDw&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2yIxMtQLZU&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ItmcIxe5Fs&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKKik8DVOsM&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJ9ZITd2rs&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CoQWAXuUyI&feature=related

The last one is a strong rejection, condemnation and repudiation by Dr Paul himself of any such statements posted in those newsletters.

Wonder if the AMA has been paying any attention to these republicans in Congress? I really believe if mass doses of "Castor oil" was administered along with follow up Enema's these bastards would feel better and maybe see a little clearer. Probably help relieve Boehner's weeping fits as well. The whole body seems to be suffering from acute constipation. I think that is the primary reason McConnells lower lip trembles when he tries to speak. It is noted, the bulls who normally furnish all this s&^t are hanging their heads, shameful of their comparable inadequacies.

Oh man, Boehner and his "two month" attempt to CYA for him and his Party. The Teapublican's bill was to cut jobs, freeze wages, and slash UE benefits, PLUS attachments like the pipeline that are unrelated and should be passed separately on it's own merit. The "uncertainty" is being caused by the damn Teapublican obstructionism as usual.

It's too late Boehner and Teapublicans, your approval rating will only go lower. A general election is not a mid-term election like 2010, and there will be propositions that will attract progressives as well -- Progressives who are also working to ensure you don't block the vote. Everyone is on to you, and your machinations and lies.

If you want to CYA, pass the payroll tax holiday and UE benefits intact, and pay for it with a measly surtax on the measly number of rich -- Represent The People for a change!

How is 20$ per week payroll tax increase going to damage the economy?That is all that this increase amounts to.You people are being manipulated wake up.If 20$ per week is going to damage the economy.Then we are in big trouble.This payroll tax cut arguement is a pure political ploy tomake one side or the other look bad.The congress obviously thinks that we are all stupid and can't do the math.

If you EPIC Shoot some one are they more dead than if you just shoot them? Both sides have failed, one side just whines more.

" And The Beat Goes On ........." Looks like there is a attempt to unify the "Nutbags" of the world !

Sadly, this @!$%# is common in the Tea Parties.

"Republicans would hold out for a bill that would extend the cuts for a year."

I hope all you t-baggers online know this is BS. Time to wake up a vote Democrat! You've all been duped!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pumpkin-head is a Dishonor to this Nation" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wonder what the Tea Party establishment has to say about Manson's Facebook page and plot?

There is no way the Right Wing can wiggle out of this one.

The shocking fact is that this is what the GOP and the Tea Party stand for!

Manson should be in Federal Custody.

25Walker

Excuse ME, the Tea Party does not stand for assassinations. This is a lunatic and will be dealt with appropriately. I know you are a left winger, but everything is not a political conspiracy directed at the president!

Get a clue...

For being against assassination, they sure like to threaten the children of elected officials and cut lawmakers' gas lines...

Excuse ME, the Tea Party does not stand for assassinations.

....and for being against assassination you sure like to wear shirts proclaiming "2nd amendment remedies" while carrying firearms to political rallies. Egilman, stand up and be proud of the racism and stupidity that you're a part of, don't run from it or stick your head in the sand. Make your children proud.

the tan man..........always a lyin or a cryin..............

the man better grow a couple or he can likely kiss his job goodbye.........

who the heck does he work for anyway?

How Boehner and his house of back stabbing theives can stand up in front of all Americans and act like they are doing some kind of favor for the 99% is down right immoral and unethical............their only concern is the pork they have attached to this tax cut, benefits and ss programs extension bill..........and the port does not help the 99%................it either help the 1% or it is detrimental to the 99%.

The republicans have yet to rationalize the fact that it is 2011 and they are monitored at every juncture and that people are better educated than in the 1950's and after they pull the same stuff over and over and over again it is kind of difficult not to see right through it........

the gig is up guys........we have your number..........you are fooling no one with your silly and very harmful games.......

so stop already!

vote these dictators out of office!

They certainly are Da Noid!

Explain to me please, those of you of the "teabagger" persuasion, who are given to calling your President all the "ist" names that you can, (Marxist, Leninist, Communist, Socialist) even thought NONE of you know what they mean, why you are not outraged at Gingrinch's statement that he will attack the independence of the judiciary by closing down courts that do not agree with his views, or arresting judges? That, my friends, is what happens in banana republics. Is this what you want the United States to be?

As to Boehner walking away from giving the middle class relief from supporting the rich. Do you see those strings on his head and arms? Know who the puppeteers are? Koch brothers, Dick Armey and the "teabaggers". The "I've got mine and I want yours too" crowd.

Feisty, that man who said that about his President should be arrested. Can you imagine saying that about anybody, least of all the POTUS and his children?

Make the right, those of you who defend everything done by the right wing.

Can one poll in negative numbers?

I think the President should ask for prime time TV time this week and call these jokers in Congress out.

Da Noid, it really makes you wonder. I don't think the GOP legislators care. For the GOPTP, it's all about defeating President Obama and if the country collapses, so be it--for this bunch of rigid idealogues, the American people are just collateral damage.

newdayDawning, well said. Gingrich sounds like the now deceased Kim Jong Il.

Money and power, Jody, money and power. That's all the GOP/TP care about. The rest of the country be DA$ned.

newday -- just as with most posts here you choose to use a denigrating term for a popular movement with which you disagree and claim that no one with a Tea Party affiliation (I do not) can explain those terms. That is just a ridiculous statement. are you outraged that the current administration has chosen not to enforce some laws which congress has passed? seem to be somewhat similar things.

why is everyone so put out by boehner's decision? why not just do the whole year now and get this behind us for awhile. all of these temporary fixes that the democrats are so fond of would suggest that they have no long-term vision.

i too abhor what was said by the individual but we need to understand that this happened with his predecessors as (4 documented assassination attempts on Bush junior) which were taken seriously just as this one will be.

oh, and lets not forget the movie documenting bush's assassination. were you outraged at the portrayal of the assassination of a sitting president?

james

I think I can safely say we are all outraged when someone calls for the assassination of any sitting president, so hold off on your "holier than thou" attitude, okay?

The tea people GOP republican congress is sure trying to poll in negative numbers Da Noid.

phine -- relax, this is not "holier than thou". this is not a left or right issue. threats to all presidents must be taken seriously. and that is what i said.

James - I agree with your "why not just do the whole year and get this behind us" comment. Lets do a little role-reversal. What if the Republicans were in control of the government (including the POTUS) and a 2 month bill was put through? Wouldn't the left be crying that the right was 'kicking the can down the road'? It goes both ways.

This has been argued and negotiated over the last few weeks. Why blow more time in 2 months rehashing the same crap they already have? The question is, who gains the most by NOT passing a full year tax break extension? Who gains the most by ripping off the band-aid again in 2 months? BOTH sides gain - with the right wanting to close this out for the year and being successful in negotiating something 99% of us need, and the left getting to beat the drum about the "party of obstruction", and "the party of no".

Hard to pick a side any more, but in this case, I think the repub's have it right. Get it over with for the year - and include the dang pipeline legislation! Think about the nation and not your personal political interests!

Agreed james. I grew up in the 60's and remember the JFK assassination (and MLK and RFK). I get a little emotional on the subject. Sorry.

Then make it a stand alone bill. Period That's what's wrong now. Too many riders a our expense.

phine -- grew up in the same generation. Thanks for the thought. Be nice if everyone could tone down the rhetoric a bit.

Have a good day and a Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas James.

PIG -- Will you lead these death squads to exterminate Americans that are affiliated with the Tea Party?

What a senseless thing for you to say.

James they are all brain washed and none is able to form a logical thought they are just a bunch of people shovelling the manure around in a circle......

James, I am referring to the political party, of course. We liberals are obviously against your "death squads to exterminate Americans" typical Tea Party "brown shirt" tactics, voter intimidation, etc... Why these are the very reasons we're against Teabagotry and want this ridiculous party to die!

@Job1,

I think the President should ask for prime time TV time this week and call these jokers in Congress out

I think the American people tuned him out long ago. They are sick of hearing him speak.

Besides that, if he did that he would focus the attention on the fact that the BS 2 month plan which is the Senate's idea of a "fix". Why do we need a 2 month plan? Either do it for a year or dont do it at all. After all, why act to prolong this and postpone it til February?

Boehner is correct in rejecting this garbage. If BHO demands TV time ( he doesnt request it ) it will accomplish 2 things:

1) Make it well known that the impass and garbage plan is generated from the Dem controlled Senate

2) Make America even more sick of hearing him speak. Everyone at this point has to know his speaches are just that. Talk. Nothing more. No solutions come from him speaking. And typically is just divides the sides more, not bring them together.

ABO 2012

I've had enough temporary deals. They should stay in DC and finish their work before going home for the holidays - and this means coming out with a deal that lasts at least a year, or just cancelling the tax breaks altogether.

dsdsherm, we are equally tired of hearing Boehner, McConnell and Cantor speak.

james-1937467

i find the views recorded in the first post to be greatly offensive but i will not condemn an entire group of people because of it just as i will not condemn all of OWS for the things i mention above

Unfortunately, an entire group is voting for one party - and that party's philosophy, and there is no longer any way to separate the message from that of the entire Republican party. You can't have it both ways: you're either individuals who oppose this kind of rhetoric and vote these bums out; or you embrace the racism by continuing to vote the party line. There can be no in between when the party, as a whole, keeps making the color of the President's skin and his lineage an issue.

Apparently tax cuts are only okay if they're for the rich...

I think the American people tuned him out long ago. They are sick of hearing him speak.

That is your opinion and not a fact. The facts show that people are tired of Congress and the Tea Baggers are a big part of Congress. On the other hand the President has the bully pulpit, and it’s time to use it against this Radical Right that is out to take down the working class within the Nation in order to defeat President Obama.

What a shame, they resort to these tactics.

Vote President Obama 2012

Job1 - Nope.

Remember just last week a poll released from (I think) NBC / The Washington Post said a MAJORITY of Americans did not "like" Obama. The majority said they did not WANT to vote for Obama.

The problem was that the Republicans are stuck in (literally) stupid mode and pander to the radical right & have given up all hope on Reagan or Clinton type leadership. I am a Republican who won't vote for ANY of the clowns they are running, and I won't vote at all unless they turn away from their stroke of idiocity that plagues them.

So, Obama will get reelected, but it won't be because he is doing a fine job. He is the lesser of evils and will win against any of the dog turds running today.

The GOP piled it on with 'earmarks' to promote their Good Ol' Time Religion er Ideology to the tax cut. Give 'em an inch and the GOP takes several miles of 'my way or the highway' to compromise on anything. The GOP made an election promise to not encumber this type of bill with 'earmarks'. But here comes the GOP struttin' about how its so important to leave their original bill alone. Do all the RWers posting here know what's attached? Can you relate the logic and reasoning underlying the need for these items to be attached?

Interesting on C-Span when Boehner was asked what was added that was so important in the original bill, that he avoided responding or naming any of the 'added' GOP elements of the bill. On live TV Boehner chose to not let that dirty cat out of the bag. No sense exposing true GOP colors regarding the middle-class. Instead Boehner calls out the Senate for kicking the can down the road with this 2-month compromise - Boehner wants all the GOP 'goodies' attached for Christmas. C'mon people, read the original bill. Fool me once...........................................

As I've been saying since they let these crazy teabaggers aboard the sinking conservative lifeboat, they are the scorpion that will drown them in the river.

They have crippled themselves completely. Their ability to even get a consensus within their own party requires them to move so far toward radicalism that everyone on the outside of the zoo is pointing and laughing. Or crying. Once the republican party finally goes the way of the libertarians and the green party, I predict that the democrats will split into two or three factions; hawks, moderates, and liberals, and we'll be looking at a new political landscape.

Ask where the whigs are today? Just another artifact of history, left behind when their agenda no longer worked in a changing world.

As usual, the libs here castigate Republicans for the same tactics used by the President and the Dems upon taking control of politics in DC in 2009. Obama and the left rammed their policies down our throats with no regard for compromise or discussion. We must all remember when Pelosi cackled, "We must pass the bill to see what is in it" when pushing Obamacare down out throats. Now that they have lost their ability to run political roughshod over this nation like they did in the beginning, we hear all these statements about Republicans being obstructionists. The reality is both parties must come to an agreement based on mutual respect. Obama's Administration is splitting this country down lines of race and class like no administration in recent history. He is obviously very desparate. Buying votes with promises to take money from one group so that others can keep there's in their pockets is just another form of graft. I'm a fiscal conservative, but i voted for obama based on a promise of change. I had no idea that Obama policies would drive this nation deeper into debt and split this nation apart.

Lanikai Ron - Same here. I'm a Republican who voted Obama because I was so frustrated with the direction Republicans had gone. Now they have gone from bad to worse, and Obama is not the person I thought I was electing. Granted, Obama is only the figure-head of the DNC, so I can't entirely blame him personally.

So, what do you and I do now???

The two month extension instead of just getting this done for a year is silliness. However...

Aside from the "uncertainty" claim being a complete joke from Teapublicans who purposely take things down to the wire like this, with unintended consequences such as the downgrade of our credit rating.... Boehner leaves out a couple of really important things: 1) how the Teapublican House attached crap like the pipeline to their bill, which the president said would be vetoed, and 2) how the Teapublican House was going to pay for their version, by cutting jobs, freezing wages, and slashing UE benefits.

Also, if Boehner wants to get all nostalgic about senate rules, perhaps he is against abuse of the filibuster? Riiight. Others already mentioned Meet The Press and the lame questions asked of Teapublicans like Bachmann. During the span of about five minutes I counted about five lies from Boehner.

When these Teapublicans start yammering about "Obama policies," why doesn't the media point out that we are still operating under Bush-era wars (minus one now despite right-wing Hawks), deficits, and the Bush tax cuts? When they say the stimulus didn't work, why doesn't the media point out that multiple, independent organizations have proved it did work? And lying about the pipeline creating 20,000 jobs, my arse, more like 6,000 temporary Canadian jobs. And so forth -- Shame on David Gregory for allowing these false statements to go uncontested!

I hope the Dems stand firm and force the GOP/TP to actually make concessions for a change. And if they don't, I hope the president will stand firm and veto anything that would hurt the economy more than a payroll tax holiday would help, as he said he would. Enough of their nonsense -- Throw the Teapublicans out!

fielden

dsdsherm, we are equally tired of hearing Boehner, McConnell and Cantor speak.

Especially since Teapublicans repeat the same talking-point lies. The GOP/TP, whether it's governors or congress, meet (e.g., in Aspen with the Koch brother) or have conference calls (e.g., about OWS) to get on the same page. That playbook is dictated by folks like Luntz or Rove, who coach Teapublicans on what derogatory words to use. This lock-step propaganda, along with FOX Noise to amplify that propaganda, started in the 1990s--during Gingrich and when FOX Noise went on the air. One may note that when such hate speech started at that time, it caused divisiveness and is when the nation started to become so polarized.

IMO, any conservative who is at all patriotic would work to put an end to this. Demand that your Republican representatives think and speak independently, starting with YOU as an example. And for heaven's sake, don't put Gingrich in power -- It's unimaginable how much faster and farther down the toilet things would go.

Out of the mouth of babes........

You know you are in deep doo doo when you can't answer the question of a child.

I guess Perry fails to realize that Admiral Mullen and other military leaders also supported the end of DADT and certified that the military certified that it would not negatively impact our combat readiness. I suppose he just thinks it is better to ask our brave soldiers to lie.

He is probably comfortable accusing President Obama of pandering to his base because that is how Perry behaves.

Cheers to 14-year old Rebecka Green and resounding boos to Rick Perry, the dufus from Texas.

Hmmm, we had Gov. Dubya from Texas and now Gov. Dufus. Good name, Jody. It works for me! LOL

Perry just lost his endorsement from "Tigerbeat" magazine.

@Forrest,

Darn, does that mean my 13 year old granddaughter will have to go back to Justin Bieber? (And as Ozzie Osbourne once said "What's a Bieber?")

Tex Dufus is running for the republican nomination for president, but evidently could not get elected to Rebecka Green's 8th grade student council if he tried. I reckon Iran will be easier to deal with than 14 year old girls, right Tex.

Forrest, it has to be embarrassing to someone (unfortunately not Perry) to be out done by a 14 year old girl. This young lady might be president one day!

Wow did you actually say that? It shows how little is needed to be President by your standards no wonder you voted for the dud fron Chicago!!!!

She can be a Governor in Texas right now!

I guess you have a problem with a bright young girl asking questions? Your philosophy, I take it, is the same as the rest of the GOP/TP - keep the electorate stupid.

Rick Perry AKA Tex Dufus is so dumb it took him an hour and a half to watch 60 minutes yesterday.

@Forrest

She is definitely smarter than the one they have now!

Ha really ITA, Tex Dufus AKA Rick Perry is a republican candidate for the nomination for president, and he was brought in to add some real firepower to a weak field! Now that shows how little is needed to be President by republican standards!

Having a young child as a tough political question is nothing new. Politicians have been put on the spot with TACTIC dozens of times.

It would be like me having my young daughter ask Obama why the Afghanistan war is still going on, and why Guantanimo is still open...???

No not even close, she was asking a question directly related to one of Tex Dufus's own campaign adds. A matter of basic rights of those serving in the defense of the nation having to lie about who they really are. Can you imagine defending an official policy that requires you to lie, the girl understands that is wrong, Perry's own campaign adds proves he does not, and she called him out on that very specific point and once again he choked big time.

phinephancy-4252115

Your philosophy, I take it, is the same as the rest of the GOP/TP - keep the electorate stupid.

Mission accomplished.

OBOMBO, Pelosi, Reid, Wrangle, Waters, Wasserman and all the liberal demos

are the ones who should be run of out town and put in jail!

And Cheney, Bush and Rumsfield should be on trial at the Hague for war crimes.

Who is "OBOMBO"?

"Who is "OBOMBO"?"

The KKK's racist name they call President Obama.

mattpfl, good points. Boehner is the poorest excuse for Speaker of the House since Gingrich; he sheds tears for a lot of things but never a tear for the American people, never a tear for the harm his party has caused this country the past decade.

Wasn't that a song by Richie Valens in the 60's?

I thought that was funny blearyeyed.

job -- i do not understand why "obombo" is a racist name? And the KKK claim? Can you explain please?

OBOMBOcare, bailouts, stimulus, taxpayer money give aways...

Ervin, rush, republicans, Boehner, cantor, mcconnell, grover, kochy bros, house of reps, teanuts, wingnuts, and all your kith and kin:

You Republican/teapeople are SOOO off base and out of touch.

Don't you realize that President Obama is NOT the brown skin, peace loving socialist who helps, donates to, and provides for the poor and gives away health care for free? THAT WAS JESUS!!!

You obviously have the two confused.... get with the program!

Oh---- and Merry Christmas. Don't forget why Christmas is a time of celebration.

bleary eyed...I don't think it was Valens. I think it was Freddy Fender: "I'll Be There When the Next Teardrop Falls". I hope that will have at election time....

Cantor slipping Boehner the wienie and then Boehner slipping McConnell the wienie was a bit of an early Christmas for me.

I think Boehner was overheard singing that old song "It's My Party and I'll Cry If I want To"

Oboy mattpfl.....really? Paranoid much!

Oboy mattpfl.....really? Paranoid much!

No paranoia... just telling it like it is

(without the RNC spin, talking points and excuses - just TRUTH.)

Oy Ervin! Are you really for the Fascists???

Matt, you don't see the problem with supporting a two month extension? Make it for the full year and move on!

P&P - War crimes? Whatever for? If you want to promote that thought why not be an equal opportunity promoter and go after obama as well? What part of exceeding the intent of establishing a no fly zone over libya don't you understand? Since when has it become the norm for a sitting president to sanction publicly assasination? Bin laden deserved to die, but shouldn't the world court also bring obama to task?

That is of course if you beleve what you say.

Since Bush made his deck of cards advertising the people he wanted dead or alive. If you don't recall Qaddafi was responsible for blowing up innocent American civilians on a civilian airline, and by the way he never used the word assassinated, he simply said he had to go, Qaddafi had plenty of time to take refuge in some other part of the world, but he said he would fight that to death, and he did, and it was not Americans who killed him. The way Obama handled that was fine he involved the UN and NATO so he got the desired result with minimal cost to the US and not one American life was lost, he did a real nice job on that one, to be sure.

Forrest - what part of enforcing a no fly zone applies with providing ground assault support? You seem to be saying that the end justified the means, but only because you support obama.

When did it become policy for a sitting president to invade an allies airspace without notice to take out another combatent? Again I ask, based on liberal thought, why is obama and company no less susceptable to war crimes than bush and company?

Personally, I don't consider either bush or obama war criminals, but both stretched the objectives.

Ervin Cohen

OBOMBO, Pelosi, Reid, Wrangle, Waters, Wasserman and all the liberal demos

are the ones who should be run of out town and put in jail!

Why not just round them and put them into concentration camps, Ervin Cohen?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

If you are talking about Pakistan now the objective was to get Bin Laden and Pakistan was not cooperating, it seems as if they were protecting Bin Laden, so the president went in and got him, he put US interests above Pakistan's interests. I don't know if that is a crime to invade their airspace. BTW I support killing people that murder innocent US civilians, I supported Bush in that regard as well, he just could not get the job done, so by his own admission "he did not think much about Bin Laden anymore since he did not hear much from him lately". This president makes it clear to the world that if you murder Americans make no mistake about it, he will come after you, and collect your head. Maybe I am not so liberal in that regard, because I'm good with that.

I supported Bush in that regard as well, he just could not get the job done,

Dubya's true agenda was the ol' bait-and-switch; I'm convinced he only used Bin Laden as an excuse to go after the guy who dissed his daddy and was a family enemy over oil, weapons, etc.

Bottom line: you are very correct Forrest; Obama successfully accomplished what Bush totally failed for eight years to do.

Guess I'm not so liberal in that regard either.

If the President announced this evening that we've found the cure for all cancers, Republicans would be all over the airwaves within the hour asking why the president hates oncologists. This is the mindset that he tried for three years to work with. Let's hope he just says "enough" for the next term and hammers them underground with their own cudgel.

Ervin Cohen,

Why don't you come back when you've got something intelligent to say. So far I see only the gibberish writings of a child.

Yo, Ervin, looks like the meds haven't been delivered yet! Must be the Christmas mailing rush!!

After this weekend, it seems that things are't going very well for the Republicans. With a 14 year old using Perry as a mop and the House Republicans putting the Senate Republicans between the proverbial rock and a hard place, I wasn't sure we would see the regular cast of naysayers from the right today.

I guess Ervin drew the short straw. But he/she needs more than the old budget song and dance.

These baggers, such as Ervin, read from the same Rush Lintball script.

Ervin, the fascist route is not the way to go!! Oy vey...........

the demos are only interested in their big govenment spending and their

big union friends and raising money for OBOMBO's liberal relection!

oh and getting Pelosi more bailout money for her brother in law's

green company that will fail like others!

Merry Christmas Ervin!

Ervin, I suggest laying off the egg nog so early in the day.

IR---hope you have the backhoe ready---Ervin is leaving "presents" all over FR today.

Thanks for reminding us to share our blessings with those less fortunate.

IR, well said.

I'll add the Salvation Army, Seniors Angel Tree, Shop with a Cop.

I see Ervin is in Scrooge, Grinch mode. Geez Ervin, at least take your attacks to a separate thread instead of one that reminds us that it's better to give than receive.

Amen Jody.

My Ladies thanks for adding to my list this morning. This Christmas with so many in need it is truly better to give than to recieve..............Ervin. A little tone deaf this morning I see. Don't worry the backhoe will be around shortly to clean up your mess. I would suggest that you take a shower or something. You're getting some of that mess on yourself and boy does it stink to high heaven

Ervin needs a little love this morning. Nobody should be this angry.

I am with Newt hold all the radical judges who let murdering thugs out to go murder again and again accountable!!!!! Remember before being a judge you are a human being with you biases, lack of intelligence etc you go to law school you become a judge but your biases are still there. Go Newt! Wipe the floor with the community organizer......again and again!

ita,

Let's say Newt become president and does what he is suggesting. What happens when a Democrat is elected president after that and imposes his/her will on the judiciary in a way that violates everything you believe in? You call yourself a "thinking" person, but have you thought that far? Somehow I doubt it.

Independent...I believe it is juries that do that. Most states have sentences dictated by law. They give the sentences they are required to. Parole Boards are also on the burner...But judges? Some are jerks, no doubt, but I don't think the blame rests only on the Judicial Branch of govt.

independent thinking atheist.

yeehaw, yeah boy!! String em on up - wez gonna have us a lynch party. Them dang libby joodges.........................lol

well IR I can't agree with what you implied what congress should do (providing government support to charities) but I do agree with the rest of your post and don't forget the food banks as well.

Good idea to help the kids out as the GOP has shown they give little about the plight of the less fortunate. Give yourself a Christmas present and call your legislator to let them know how you feel about this payroll tax cut dilemma. Make your legislator stay at work until a 'compromise' is reached - not a 'my way or the highway' resolution - but a true compromise in the spirit of Christmas. Let them do it for a year if need be, but let them know you want a 'Compromise for Christmas'. How's that for a slogan?. Call, e-mail, or text that to your legislators - 'Please Compromise for Christmas on the Payroll Tax Cut'. Then give yourself a Happier New Year and Vote 'Em All Out for 2012! Give Boehner this special Christmas cheer also.

Sadly, depressingly, yes.

Really? We're going to send the police to arrest judges with whom you disagree?

ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?????

Just wait - next week they'll be calling for the burning of books they don't agree with!!

@Feisty

Think the should start with the bible - all that caring about the sick, poor, hungry, etc. Encourages handouts!

as there were references to the bard last week ...

All:
God save your majesty!

Cade:
I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all shall eat
and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

Dick:
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Cade:
Nay, that I mean to do.

Phinephancy, Andy Schafly is already on the case! The Good Samaritan is now the Tough Sh%t Samaritan! Got a preexisting condition and no insurance? Tough sh%t!!!

I've read several times on this very site where your fellow Libs have called for the banning of FOX NEWS. One dolt, Skippy from Oklahoma has even called for the jailing of anyone who criticizes Obama.

Phinephancy calls for the imprisonment of the previous administration for the crime of protecting the nation following the 9/11 attacks. This is a common feeling among you far lefties.

You people don't have much room to slam someone for wanting activist judges to have to explain their decisions.

Stop your liberal whining and go do some damn work.

Please show me where it has been proven that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks.

So, "Damage123", you're cool with the concept of the police coming to arrest a judge with whom the Executive Branch disagrees?

It would have been okay, then, for President Obama to send the FBI to the homes of Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Kennedy because of Citizens United?

Tell me, what is the statute of limitations for arrests for such disagreements? I'm just wondering if Stevens, Souter and Breyer need to be worried after Kelo v. City of New London.

I guess by Newt's logic, President Obama can abolish any court that doesn't uphold the constitutionality of the health care reform act. Woo hoo----good news for us.

Fear not Damage. We have no intention of sending the boys in blue after you, after careful consideration it will be the boys in white knocking on your trailer door.

I used to think that Perry and Bachmann were the most dangerous to the nation and the rest of the world. Now I see that ole Newt is the one pushing the crazy button.

Da Noid, and the GOPTPers call President Obama a "communist"!

Poor Damage 123, his memory's going. Hey, Damage, does that mean David Frum who wrote a scathing Op Ed regarding FOX is a flaming liberal? Liberals mock, denounce and call out FOX for being faux news, being dishonest with its viewers but don't recall any calls to ban FOX other than individual's right to ban something by not watching or buying it.

Ah, Damage, my poor little fella, you do get so excited when you eat too much sugar.

Job 1, you got that right about the Newtster.

You dumb paranoid, left-wing nitwits. Last week it was "Newts gonna get us all killed in a Third World War." What's next, Newts gonna put drugs and AIDS in minority communities?" Please tell me where it says anything about abortion in the Constitution. It doesn't, but the liberal SCOTUS found it in there somewhere, didn't they?

I guess the old Grinch must be the pinup poster on Damage's wall in the basement!

"Damage", don't you get it? Newton called his shot! If he doesn't like a decision he wants to have the judge arrested and brought before Congress. Do you think that's okay?

Hell, no!

Had the President made such a declaration yesterday you'd be howling for his impeachment today...pitchforks, torches...the whole nine yards!

...and you'd be right to call for his removal from office for that declaration!

Newton makes such a declaration and...what, you think we're overreacting?

Damage123,

When we say stuff like this we literally mean it as a joke making fun of fascists like you!! So you want Knut as your fuhrer, eh..... I think there are enough people even now who remember the atrocities of WWII committed by your fascist heroes. Hopefully, with any luck, real "historians" will keep the real history alive and not have it re-written by your Teabagging denying brethren,,,,,

Da noid:

Newt is not the POTUS. He is free to say whatever he likes about whatever he wants.

Your not going to vote for him anyway. Why do you care what he says?

POLITICIAN...do you know what that is?

Damage it's not about abortion, it's about the right to choose that's in the constitution.

Da noid:

Newt is not the POTUS. He is free to say whatever he likes about whatever he wants.

Your not going to vote for him anyway. Why do you care what he says?

Newton is not POTUS but wants to be POTUS! Yes, he is free to say whatever he likes about whatever he wants...

...but he is not free from the consequences of his statements.

If such a declaration should result in your removal from office if you are POTUS then the same statement, in my opinion, should disqualify you immediately from being able to be elected to that office.

Job1: I think it's a toss up.

Danoid (post 7.8) , nice strawman argument, seems that damage was pointing out the hypocracy of many FR liberal posters. Where did he say in his post that he supported newts' comment?

Newt is not the POTUS. He is free to say whatever he likes about whatever he wants

Da Noid is right, he can say it, but he is also reponsible for it. It is something that will incite some people and it is thus irresponsible.

And the right has the nerve to call Obama a facist and communist?

I like this. Republicans cannot possibly bitch next year when Obama arrests judges trying to stop another recount for a marginal Republican winner.

EE - lol! who said we all buy off on everything he (newt) says or that he will win the nomination?

Just as obama agrees that the US doesn't have 57 states, or that maybe increasing our debt limit wasn't a sign of weak leadership or that obamacare has issues. I am sure that their are enough congressional members who won't support such a policy, regardless of who is POTUS.

"american" - Then why did he go there? What was the purpose of making the statement? What did he hope to gain by saying what he did when it's the kind of statement that any opponent should jump on and immediately throw back in his face?

Mo, Does that mean everything? I mean, can I choose to do anything I want because it says "I have that right in the constitution" I dont want or need an abortion, but I can think of a few other things Id like to be able to do.

May I suggest before going to war again, we have to have the entire country invested?I hate the idea of a draft, but if that is what it takes so all bear the brunt of the tours of duty and loss, so be it.

phinephancy,

Change the word "suggest" to "demand" and you have my full support.

You got it Jack!

You're full of crap. If everybody in the nation had to "bear the brunt" of a war, you people would be the first ones griping that "not enough rich people" are serving, or the ration of minorities killed is off-balance from their representation in the population" and we need some sort of quota system. It's typical of liberals identity politics. Wait until the next war comes and some openly gay troops get killed. There will be calls for an investigation.

Why don't you just say it? You want more wealthy people to serve and die. Well, since the wealthy are only 1% of our population, it will be tough to have a large enough amount of them in the war to satisfy your sense of justice. I'm sure you will figure out some BS way to remedy that.

Truth is, people from all backgrounds and income levels serve. Go ahead. Bring back a draft. The lefties will be the ones out there rioting and protesting just like the last time.

So, you have no problem, I take it, with less than 1% of the population fighting for your right to be stupid? I freely admit I don't like the draft, but if the GOP wants to go to war with every body they disagree with, then they need to pony up.

And if the wealthy enjoy the fruits of a free society, then yes, they need to have skin in the game too.

Maybe, if there is a draft, the politicians in Washington would be more careful before committing our young to war.

Damage, you really need to get a grip. I know you have a deep seated love for me, but honey, it's starting to get embarrassing the way you follow me around!

phinephancy, well said. I agree with Jack, change that to "demand".

I humbly bend to the will of the people :) I hearby DEMAND all be involved and we bring back the draft before sending our young off to war again.

Damage,

You are just about the stupidest person writing on this Vine--though Ervin might give you a race for it. You need to alter your name slightly to read "Damaged Goods".

What's clear to me is that you haven't served in the Armed Forces. You're probably one of those wannabe militia guys running around in cammies firing paint balls at like-minded brain-dead stooges. It makes me sick to realize that guys I fought beside in Viet Nam died so that you can spew this kind of nonsense. You're sick, sick, sick.

Now that I've calmed down a little, I'm going to tell you something, Damage. You are very, very fortunate (and I guarantee you have no idea how fortunate) that you weren't standing in the same room with me a few minutes ago. Even the most recalcitrant draftees in the Viet Nam era are 100 times the man that you are.

Right on, Jack! And thank you for your service

Who the hell do you all think PAYS for the wars? The welfare class? Uhhhhh, nope. And it alsmost looks from some of your posts like you people think the only people who serve in the armed forces are Democrats. Nope again. Do I need to break out some studies and stats showing the political affiliation of all our military members? YOU DON'T WANT THAT. It's the average Joes from the middle class that do all the fighting. You know, the kind of people you liberal types always condescend to.

And remember, for years before 2003, we heard over and over again from the likes of Bill & Hillary, John Kerry, AlGore etc... that "Saddam Hussein" needs to be taken out. What was that all about? When we finally do, their against it.

And don't give me this "I was in Nam" crap, Portsmouth. That's a common tactic by liberals on message boards. You think it gives you immunity of some kind. Wrong!

Technology and American military power has advanced to such a degree that we can now kick the living s**t out of another country with not too much effort at all. And spare me the "That didn't happen in Iraq" BS. The Iraq war was over and done just weeks after it started. Everything that came after was just good ole fashioned terrorism by Islamofacists. You know, those animals whose rights you care so much about and would like to see Bush/Cheney et al... tried and jailed for fighting.

You know, Damage, I wish with all my heart that Jack was in the same room with you right now. I have seen big idiots on these boards before, but you take the cake! Go back under the rock you crawled from. Maybe the ghosts of the over 4000 young men and women from Iraq can keep you company!

Jack, I got your back. Signed proud Viet Nam Draftee. How many tours overseas is enough? Damn disgusting. Immunity, what a hack. You're opinions are allowed. But the name calling is childish.

Damage,

Nope. You don't understand. And you never will. And it's not only because you're too stupid. You're also a selfish, bigoted coward. You will never, ever, ever understand what it's like --

And you're going on Ignore. I've tried to have discussions with you before, but you're incapable of doing thinking more sophisticated than figuring out how to tie your shoes without putting a knot in them.

mudsharktoo & phinephancy,

Thank you, both of you. mudshark--really appreciate it, man. I spent 6 years in the Marines as a volunteer, but there are other Viet Nam draftees who regularly post here. And I value all my friends who "understand".

Damage you go boy!!! You are having a battle of wits with a bunch of witless drones why bother...you know the saying "Tis folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss" Need I say more?

independent nut job, go under that rock with Damage, okay. The two of you sweethearts are made for each other. Kissy kissy.

And may you both think of the families those fine young folks left behind while you are loving on each other under that rock.

Jack:

I'm a veteran and bled for this country. You are acting like a little liberal bytch putting someone on ignore. You are suppose to be this big bad azz Nam vet but yet you can't take a little ribbing from someone on a damn message board.

I respect you for being a vet; probably not your idea (draft), but I still respect that aspect. Right now you are just acting like the rest of these weak azz liberals.

BTW: I have 10 combat tours as an 18D. Panama (Just Cause), Desert Storm, Somalia, OIF x 4, Afghanistan X3:

3 PH, 6 AC, 3 with V device........and spent 22yrs serving not 1 yr. See how that works.

Damage doesn't know how to tie his own shoes, he has mommy do it for him. Then he cusses her out for not doing it right.

Jeez. You people spend HOURS on here every day accusing people of every "ism" under the sun and having a grand ole time doing it. Someone comes and gives you a taste of your own medicine, and you get all hot under the collar. Boo hoo hoo. Do I need to dig back thru your posts, Jack? Should we take a look at what a polite and civil liberal you are?

ditto on the ignore button for brain Damage

@ideology

I'm with you.

I'm a veteran and bled for this country.

Who is also the poster child for PTSD & likes to play keyboard warrior on First Read!

... well now that the damage has been tidied up.

Death to Kim Jong II ... what? ... oh

IntheMiddle,

If you could read, you'd see that I wrote that I was a volunteer. And I spent 19 months in Viet Nam, which is more than one tour.

I'm not putting Damage on Ignore because of any "ribbing"--and if that's what you call his rants, then it's one more example of your inability to read. I'm putting him on Ignore because he's stupid. And I'm putting him on Ignore because he obviously has no respect for people who are putting their lives on the line for this country. It's just Take Take Take, and no giving back.

If you are really who you say you are, you wouldn't be defending him in the manner you are now.

TorpedoYou called bulls***t on you the other day regarding your military service. Go back and take a look and you'll see what he and I wrote.

@ideology

Now THAT'S scary!

-Damage123 - "Technology and American military power has advanced to such a degree that we can now kick the living s**t out of another country with not too much effort at all."

Boots on the ground, it's always boots on the ground, not technology. You have zero clue about how it works. It's not liberal or conservative at all.

Your ignorance of such matters is sadly all too common but we defended your right to say it none the less.

US Army 1968-70

Damage, sometimes if you have nothing to say you should say it. You're making the very point you're ranting against.

Who the hell do you all think PAYS for the wars?

Um, nobody. That's exactly the problem. The last administration thought we could fight two wars off-budget so that 99% of us had zero skin in the game (unless we went shopping).

It's the average Joes from the middle class that do all the fighting. You know, the kind of people you liberal types always condescend to.

Thank you for reinforcing the point that the people sending Americans off to die have no skin in the game. You do realize that you're making the point you're arguing against, right?

P&P - Iran hs been a bogeyman ever since the carter administration for both the left and the right.

Well Jack, since when has it been said that it wasn't OK for someone to defend another? Even if they may not agree?

Samnetm - Actually it depents on how the objective is defined.

Fiesty - I would put more faith in listening to a vet over you or your girlfriends. Being in a position having to face death not by ones choice is quite the eye opener. When I was a youngster I was invincible, however too many close calls proved otherwise.

Of course that doesn't mean that the vet being listened to is right.

While the denigrating comments of you and your "friends" are occasionally funny it doesn't mean that they have credence.

Damage123=Radical Right Nut Job.

American,

Well Jack, since when has it been said that it wasn't OK for someone to defend another? Even if they may not agree?

Here is what Damage wrote:

we can now kick the living s**t out of another country with not too much effort at all.

Nearly 4,500 American troops killed, another 70,000 combined hostile and non-hostile wounded (a great number of them maimed), and who knows how many 10's of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed, and it's just, Oh, hum, another day at the office? I call his attitude disrespectful to both those who served and to the families who loved them.

And I find it difficult in the extreme to believe that someone who claims to have the combat experience ITM claims would say that it was just a "ribbing". I know a couple of Viet Nam vets in these parts whose politics are far to the right of mine who would be offended by Damage's remarks.

You call it what you want. I find both Damage's & ITM's remarks indefensible.

Jack my friend: Damage and ITM are trolls. They have nothing to add of any value to any discussion that is going on. They derail the talk through junior high dramatics to themselves, because that is the only way they get attention.

We value your service Jack. Ignore, and let the trolls starve.

newday,

Thanks--I sincerely appreciate the heads-up. I've got these guys on Ignore now. They're not worth a second of my time.

I don't normally "lose it" like that, but I'm so sick of the What's in it for me? crowd, especially their resistance to the notion of shared sacrifice, multiplied by a factor of 10 when they blithely dismiss the agony and suffering of war, whether it be U.S. troops or innocent civilians. Thanks again for checking in.

I don't blame you a bit, Jack, what they said was offensive, and you should not have to put up with it. No vet should.

You would think they would be embarrassed to write what they did, but they never are.

So glad you post here, Jack, we learn from you daily.

newday,

we learn from you daily.

What a nice thing to say! I really don't think I add that much--there are so many intelligent commentators on this post who do a lot more research than I possibly can. But I truly appreciate the sentiment.

Love your avatar. Very soothing.

You are called aptly Damage123. Creative. I hope you seek help soon, not just for the anger issue but for your denial of reality. I think you might be suffering from something called schizophrenia. There's medication for that.

Sad thing about Newt's comment is it is like red meat to the GOP/TP. For a party that thinks they are so pro American, they sure have a lot of ideas that seem like they are out of 1930's Germany!

The GOPTP calls President Obama a socialist, Marxist, communist, Nazi? Gingrich said President Obama had "colonialist" leanings. Pay attention people especially conservatives, what Newt has outlined is exactly what RedDevPS said--a version of the SS, KGB, coming for any judge or any person who disagrees with their far right ideology.

What few people seem to remember is that Newt was an advocate of Lou Sheldon, the guy who was able to get a California initiative on the ballot that would have interred gays and AIDS infected people into concentration camps. Thankfully, that initiative failed, and one can only hope that today's voters will see through that same veneer and never vote this lunatic into the office of the President.

As I said above----according to Newt's logic, President Obama has the same powers over the judiciary--do they really want that? Unless these as special, Republican-only secret decoder ring powers he claims.

Grand Moff - I have not been able to find out of the NDAA has been signed by the President or not. There really IS a blackout on this issue after the Senate AND the House passed this bill.

My take - this bill 'appeared' because of the Occupy Wall Street protests. If the NDAA was signed into law, expect to see OWS protestors be declared 'enemy combatants' and the military come in to 'detain' the protestors. Say goodbye to the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the Constitution.

Pietro as a fellow liberal who was concerned about this issue, I heard on NPR that it passed as part of the Defense appropriation bill and CR to fund other government actions to ensure a government shutdown didn't occur. It was added there so that it could be tied to the government shutdown arguement to ensure it would pass. I guess Obama didn't veto it because then the government wouldn't get funding and a shutdown would've occured.

If memory serves, they added some language to not make it so bad, and the whitehouse signed off on it. ACLU and other civil liberty groups including Ron Paul are obviously concerned. I would ask this question in the boiler room for FR clarification but I'm sure it wouldn't be answered.

___________

Congressman condemns “bold, arrogant, dangerous” move to intern Americans without trial

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Top tier presidential candidate Ron Paul has decried the ‘indefinite detention’ provision of the National Defense Authorization Act, warning that it represents an arrogant, bold and dangerous attempt to establish martial law in America.

Speaking with the Alex Jones Show today, Congressman Paul went on the offensive against the bill, which is set to be signed into law by President Obama later this week.

Section 1031 of the NDAA bill, which itself defines the entirety of the United States as a “battlefield,” allows American citizens to be snatched from the streets, carted off to a foreign detention camp and held indefinitely without trial. The bill states that “any person who has committed a belligerent act” faces indefinite detention, but no trial or evidence has to be presented, the White House merely needs to make the accusation.

Yellowdog - Mark D - I was more interested in WHEN the President signed the the NDAA. Normally, there is some mention of when the bill was signed into law. I find it pretty interesting that there has been NO MENTION of any bill being signed.

I am assuming that the bill was signed QUIETLY by President Obama, but I am looking for some confirmation of this.

If the President DID sign this bill, he will be remembered as the President that shredded the Constitution and rescinded the Bill of Rights.

That is a helluva legacy.

I heard on Morning Joe this morning that the President is really and truly #issed this time. He was willing to swallow the pipeline for the tax cut, but the orange man cut the rug out, again. He is now not going to negotiate directly with the (as Feisty calls them) GNOP. Finally.

I pray to God he doesn't cave.

No pipe line no cuts!!!!! No one year deal no cuts!!!!

Gary K, no compromise, no country. Thanks a lot (sarcasm).

Beverly in Chicago...have to admit, doing it for 2 months is stupid ! Just do the deal, Republicans can't take yes for an answer !

They complained that it was too much cut for the middle class, so the democrats relented and only cut it half as much, then they tried to tie it to the Oil Pipeline, and again democrats gave in and said OK ( I am for the pipeline, just against the idea of making it a requirement of the tax cut bill ), whatever the democrats want the republicans will vote against. That is the way they work. The party of NO !

This could cost them a lot of votes next year, I do not think they are reading the voters very well.

Nashville_fan

The saddest part of all may be First Read telling me that they think this will resonate with "conservatives" . . . wtf are you folks conserving? . . . because it sure as hell ain't America.

What's equally sad is First Read asserting that the tea bag Republicans in the House are "right" to torpedo the middle class tax cut extension. Political reporters, presumably get paid so much that they would hardly notice the 1,000 dollar tax hike the Republicans are going to hit the middle class with.

Andrew Jackson Newt Gingrich vs. Supreme Court and Judiciary

Historian Gingrich is trying to show support for another huge case from his Georgian past. Trying to trump the judiciary with the executive is not how it is supposed to work.

In the 1830's the state of Georgia pushed for the Indian Removal act to push the soverign nation of Cherokee Indians from their land. Breaking the Federal treaty the state passed the Indian Removal act. The Cherokee's sued to the Supreme Court and Chief Justice John Marshall called the state act unconstitutional and illegal due to the Federal treaty. Andrew Jackson President at that time, old Hickory a notoriously anti Indian opponent, famously quoted - "John Marshall has made his decision now let him enforce it if he can."

History shows that the Cherokee were moved to Oklahoma on an ardous journey called the Trail of Tears.

The constitution calls for three equal branches as a form of checks and balances. The recent discussion from Gingrich and Bachmann that somehow their presidency would mean they could reverse or ignore Supreme Court decisions is delusional.

Amen Houston.

Edited to add: Excellent post Yellowdog . . . and particularly resonant here in Tennessee . . . too bad these folks who keep telling us how very smart they are think that we are all stupid.

Nashville fan, you just hit the nail on the head. These guys really and truly believe the American people are stupid and will believe any bs they throw out there. We need to prove them wrong.

Nashville Fan, you hit that one exactly right, as always!

"...3 co-equal branches of government" right ? So if 2 of 3, the Executive and Legislative Branch, act apart or against the Judiciary would that not be acceptable? Co-equal is right, so the judiciary does not reign supreme.

Great post as usual, Nash. Unbelievable that Gingrich could say that with a straight face. Why not just throw out the entire Constitution and turn the government over to the Koch brothers and Grover Norquist---eliminate the middle men who don't do everything exactly as they would like. Geesh.

Dear RetREMF -

Please cite the passage in the Constitution that gives the Executive Branch the right to unilaterally arrest judges.

There is not a "freestyle" division when it comes to running this country, no matter how convenient it is for the blowhards who are pretending that they are running for President to try and create one.

The fact that a person who would say something this stupid out loud is even treated seriously by our "newstainment" industry . . . and folks like yourself . . . may in fact be the even bigger problem.

*waves to Jody and Steeler Fan*

P.S. I hope you Steeler Fans enjoyed that nice early Christmas present from my Titans . . . losing to the 0-13 Colts was not easy . . . but we did it! :o)

P.S.S. phinephancy . . . I hope and pray that "we the people" will show these folks that we are not stupid and that the "spin cycle" is about to come to an abrupt end.

Houston

I have given up on MTP. I stick with "Up" with Chris Hayes, or Sportscenter. Keeps things a little more calm on a Sunday morning.

Houston...I'm not sure that sympathy is the what we should be feeling for our Presidential Candidates. I would like a bit of admiration to slip into the mix....And if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

Personally, after listening to the GOP candidates all I feel is the need for some Pepto. They make my stomach queasy.

You are right about Chuck Todd....That's why I won't listen to anyone but Sean Hannity telling me every night that Obama mis-pronounced the word Corpmen.... "Corpsemen"

We need more flaming a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s like Sean Hannity giving us the BIG PICTURE !!

Sean Hannity is opinion news and Chuck Todd calls himself a news reporter. I cannot place the two in the same category. I at least know Hannity is a conservative and can listen or not, but Chuck todd and the band that write this junk are wolves in sheeps clothing (beware !!!! you sheep) calling themselves something they're not.

People obtain news and information from the source the best confirms or conforms to their own previously held notions. The difference is the vast majority here think the vast majority agree with them when that is not at all true. And most here don't recognize or won't even acknowledge the bias in the main stream media.

If consumers of news & information felt that the msm, i.e. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, presented an objective or unbiased opinion, Fox programming would not be successful - there wouldn't be an audience.

If consumers of news & information felt that the msm, i.e. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, presented an objective or unbiased opinion, Fox programming would not be successful - there wouldn't be an audience

There's an audience for Fox News because they cater exclusively to the far right, so that portion of the country clings to them like glue. The other networks don't dominate Fox in the the ratings because there are many more of them, and they share the same audience, which is everyone *except* those stuck to Fox. There's a reason it's called the "mainstream media". It's what most people pay attention to.

I talk all media in general which some are more pro based off their articles they choose and how they report on them. Fox is very successful in their rating which might indicate they are maybe a less biased voice to their listners. This crosses over to who and how they are followed as valid or truthful commentaries which extends into how their followers or non-follower respond. I would think a person would not influenced by the media specifically but rather through multiple sources and their own philosophies to make a knowledgeable response that would be void of their annoyances.

Exactly...Like the Second Mile CEO, for example. I agree and I think that part of your point is to give directly to the people in need and cut out the middle men/women as much as possible. It is hard, but it can be done.

maggie,

When a tornado struck my hometown in Oklahoma this May, I mailed a check to the local Baptist church. Because I knew that they could most effectively get the money to those in need. But in an URBAN environment, it is naive to think that the larger organizations aren't MORE effective given the sheer volume of need.

Kind of like how so many 'small government' proponents would like to see the New York Fire Department become a volunteer organization. There is an IDEA of small government,...and then there is the REALITY of need. It would be great if folks could grasp the scope of a problem beyond just their front porch.

@Clara

And, following on your thoughts of volunteer NYFD, would not the NYFD respond to the one who "donates the most" first, before the one in most need?

Have you ever looked to see the salary of some of these "charity" CEO's?

I agree with you maggie. They deserve a good salary but these CEO's are getting rich off the donations.

Repubs are saying tax cut for mid class is not much and is doing nothing for economy. It may not be much for those rich repubs but it is a helping hand for our family.

Actually, I think it's the young bucks that are the problem, as they don't have a lifetime of service to protect. In general, it's the older, more seasoned congressmen who are amenable to working across the aisle to get things done. The freshmen have a lot to prove to their core constituents, and won't compromise at all. Term limits simply mean that the congressmen will be *completely* beholden to the lobbyists, because that's who's going to provide them with jobs after their term of service. If you don't have a re-election to worry about, then you won't give a crap what the actual public thinks, only those whom you *want* to please.

We already have a way to remove congressmen that you don't like... it's called an election.

It's not term limits. We need to get big corporate money out of politics. It's the money that's running congress.

Mo-1852032,

"We need to get big corporate money out of politics."

What about other sources __— such as labor (unions) and others.

I agree Smitty. It seems the only game the GOP and particularly Boehner know is "Gottcha" "Gottcha Back". How sad for the American people that half of our lawmakers and money distributors are more interested in destroying the President than they are in caring for the American people. Please don't interpret this to mean that I agree with many or all of Obama's policies, because that is far from the truth. I just want a bit of "Public Servant" mentality to come to the forefront of these elections. Where are our options? Since the SC ruled that corporations are people, elected positions are bought and paid for with huge strings attached. This ruling is destroying America and must be reversed. How does one go about doing that? Seriously? Is there a way we can make that happen?

Boehner is totally wishy-washy. He didn't just "walk away" and there was no miscommunication. The GOP house members said "...we aren't going to pass this..." and he flip-flopped and agreed. Not any kind of leadership at all!

Ummm...bud1....Do you understand that this is not a texting site? It would be much easier to understand and digest your post if you used some punctuation. The Democrats are not doing a great job--but are often blocked by the GOP. Nobody in Congress has a clean nose in my opinion. Which is why I changed my party from Repub. to Independent this year. I won't vote for a single incumbent in Congress. Period. Second, the only, and I mean only, reason that I may vote for President Obama is to have a person in office that will not be spending any time campaigning for the next four years and might actually get some work done. He also is the only candidate with 4 years OJT. Do I agree with a lot of his policies? Nope. It is about choices and the choices we have been given are ludicrous at best. It has come down to the lesser of evils and that is a sad, sad statement for Americans, but one we will have to live with. We the people have become we the peasants.

bud, been smoking some good buds. If you have I'll take ten dollars worth. In trying to read that I thought I was real high. Talk about a cheap buzz.