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Updated 8:00pm ET: The holiday spirit seems nowhere near the Capitol Hill this Wednesday evening, with Democrats and Republicans far apart on a deal to fund the government, and extend an expiring payroll tax cut and lapsed unemployment benefits.
Lawmakers were no closer to a deal by the end of the day following a meeting between President Obama and Senate Democratic Leaders at the White House to discuss their strategy going forward. And there was no comment after an early evening meeting between House Speaker John Boehner, Majority Leader Harry Reid and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell in the Capitol.
Separately, Boehner huddled with his members for more than two hours to plot their options. House Republicans are awaiting action in the Senate on the payroll tax cut bill they passed last night. According to GOP aides, House Republicans weighed whether to move ahead without Democrats on their own, different bill to fund the government after it runs out of money on Friday.
Boehner asserted that the White House and Senate Democrats had made an agreement to fund the government until Democrats reneged.
The White House had decided to link the payroll tax cut to the extension of government funding so as to maintain leverage over Republicans, who could theoretically adjourn the House, and force the Senate, along with the Obama administration, to accept or reject the House-passed legislation.
"It's pretty clear to all of us that President Obama and Senator Reid want to threaten a government shutdown so that they can get leverage on a jobs bill," Boehner told reporters early this evening, accusing Democrats of playing politics on the issue.
In the Senate, Reid sought this morning to hold an immediate vote on the House bill. But after a testy back and forth on the Senate floor, McConnell blocked the vote.
"Let's vote on this now," Reid said. "We knew Monday that the bill wouldn't pass the Senate. We also knew yesterday that this bill wouldn't pass the Senate and we still know that. It won't pass the Senate."
But, McConnell fought back and said the more pressing issue was funding the government.
"A government shutdown is two days away," he said. "So first things first. Let's keep the government from shutting down. These other measures don't expire until the end of the month."
The game of chicken left members frustrated today.
Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) speaking outside the Senate chamber, "Let's quit behaving like this is a sporting event and try to get to the work... That is the kind of stuff that is driving the American people bat crazy right now, and we need to stop it."
And Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ), the number two Republican, said Boehner and Reid need to start negotiating.
"These continuing side by side votes on stuff that we know isn't going to pass doesn't do anything but waste time," he complained.
The battle will continue tomorrow. Senate Democrats said late tonight they are preparing to introduce their third bill in as many weeks to extend the payroll tax cut. That bill will drop their demand to impose a surtax on millionaires to pay for the tax cut, a minor concession to Republicans.
The congressional infighting has contributed to some of the worst approval ratings for lawmakers in recent memory; 42 percent of Americans called this Congress "one of the worst" in an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released this week. As for why they're most disappointed? A plurality of Americans cited partisan disagreement that's led to poor productivity on Capitol Hill.
That frustration has been fueled, in part, by a series of standoffs between Democratic and Republican lawmakers, which has led the country to the brink of a shutdown several times this year. A last-minute deal in April averted a shutdown and funded government through the end of September, and negotiations over whether to raise the nation's borrowing limit similarly went down to the wire in August, threatening default.
Their popularity tarnished by the debt talks, lawmakers wrangled over a series of shorter-term stopgap measures throughout the fall. An October continuing resolution hit a snag over how to fund increased disaster relief funds. When that spending ran out in mid-November, before lawmakers were set to recess for Thanksgiving, they extended funding through Dec. 16, this Friday.
The House has already extended its work to handle the unfinished items. The Obama administration and Democrats are looking to link a so-called "megabus," or compilation spending legislation that would extend spending through next September, to the payroll tax extension before Congress. If Congress were to successfully approve both, it would theoretically prevent a similar game of shutdown brinksmanship for most of the next calendar year.
NBC's Luke Russert and Frank Thorp contributed to this post.
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Is it any wonder why these Congress Critters have the lowest approval ratings in history?
Lock the doors - wheel out the cots - order some pizzas & do your DAMN JOBS!
This is the result of right wing obstructionism & their extremism to break this President by any and all means necesarry!
After all, it was McConnell who bragged about the only goal is to make sure President Obama serves one term!
Don't think Mr. & Mrs. Average Voter are not paying attention!
And "Go to the mattresses!" Rhetorically and literally!
These people are surely worthless. To think that we actually pay them near $200K yearly with benefits most of us no longer get in exchange for what? They spend most of their time trying to increase their own bank accounts and soliciting bribes than doing their job. Now I suppose they'll be so tired that they'll have to take a couple months vacation. If I had these work habits, I'd be fired.
Feisty-The problem is with both parties. You started your comment out correctly blaming both but then had to lean on one side. That is wrong. Both be damned. The sooner the American public realizes we need a 3rd party the better.
It's your stupid President who said he would veto the bill because of the pipeline, get a grip Feisty YOUR President is a loser!!
and don't forget the bottled water to wash down all of those pizzas. Should we be kind and let them use Port-A-Potties as well..........after all they have to have some place to dump all the @!$%#. Happy Holidays!
enjoy...american gothic...reel chicken...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4sQIqXv2FM&feature=related
If this is what compromising is to them, then we are in a world of hurt. They refuse to do anything that Obama supports, be it right or wrong, simply because he is Obama. Their world makes no sense, but again, the world of Fox News is not reality.
The Democrats have to shoulder the blame as well, they had control of both the House and Senate and did not get the job done. They did get some stuff passed, but not enough to fix the economy. If and or when they get control back, the very first thing that has to be done is put people back to work, whether the Republicans like it or not.
Feisty Red Head,
Not sure how you are always the first to post, but your job must be to do just that. Anyways, I notice you always bash the Republicans. After the Iraq "invasion" I switched my registration from Republican to Independent. In the past I could not stomach a vote for the Democrats. I think both parties are two wings of the same plane with both parties taking turns crashing the plane into the ground.
I just do not see how you find no blame with the Democrats? If it weren't for Obama and the Democrats to misread what the American public wanted by ramming Wall Street reform, Health Care reform, and on and on and on. They had two years to do whatever they wanted, yet they focused on bills nobody cared about. The funny thing is Obama told the people who voted for him exactly what he planned on doing. The problem was some of those people (independents) were too stupid to realize that. They wanted to vote Democrat, and that was that. Obama has done for the most part exactly what he campaigned on. The people (independents) weren't listening to what he had to say. Obama made a critical mistake by not recognizing that. He should have realized that with the town hall meetings. Now those same people (independents) went the opposite in 2010 electing the Republicans back to control of the house. That was a mistep on the part of Obama. The result is the mess we are currently in. GRIDLOCK. Can't get nothing done. That is Obama's fault plain and simple.
With that said. I am starting to grow very weary of the Republicans insistence to drag out everything. This is getting ridiculous. I am angry, and will blame the Republicans for this battering of the mind. Tired of it. But it still goes back to Obama for creating this environment. I wish a new party with common sense could evolve. Tired of the two party dictatorship.
Feisty Red Head,
Not sure how you are always the first to post, but your job must be to do just that. Anyways, I notice you always bash the Republicans. After the Iraq "invasion" I switched my registration from Republican to Independent. In the past I could not stomach a vote for the Democrats. I think both parties are two wings of the same plane with both parties taking turns crashing the plane into the ground.
I just do not see how you find no blame with the Democrats? If it weren't for Obama and the Democrats to misread what the American public wanted by ramming Wall Street reform, Health Care reform, and on and on and on. They had two years to do whatever they wanted, yet they focused on bills nobody cared about. The funny thing is Obama told the people who voted for him exactly what he planned on doing. The problem was some of those people (independents) were too stupid to realize that. They wanted to vote Democrat, and that was that. Obama has done for the most part exactly what he campaigned on. The people (independents) weren't listening to what he had to say. Obama made a critical mistake by not recognizing that. He should have realized that with the town hall meetings. Now those same people (independents) went the opposite in 2010 electing the Republicans back to control of the house. That was a mistep on the part of Obama. The result is the mess we are currently in. GRIDLOCK. Can't get nothing done. That is Obama's fault plain and simple.
With that said. I am starting to grow very weary of the Republicans insistence to drag out everything. This is getting ridiculous. I am angry, and will blame the Republicans for this battering of the mind. Tired of it. But it still goes back to Obama for creating this environment. I wish a new party with common sense could evolve. Tired of the two party dictatorship.
I guess the GOP is the only ones allowed to use these same tactics, well it's a Win Win for the Democrats on this one, the Democrats have to hold firm and Obama needs to grow a PAIR .... the Democrats remind me of a group of girls that don't have a pair amongst the bunch.
anoble, wow, fastest rereg ever! tic, toc, tic, toc..pack those bags for Costa Rico yet, sunshine? ;-)
You are absolutly correct Feisty. These republicans are without question the most unhonorable people to walk modern american soil. History books will show it. This president is totaly rightous and deserves none of these negative posts. Hard to believe people can allow themselves to be polarized to this level of ignorance, stupidity and dishonor.Not an american among them.
RIGHT WINGERS were in the world do you get your facts ,data , research material , My research finds that the republicans have put forth bills compromised ,and the LEFT KEEPS SAYING NO IT IS OUR WAY OR THE HIGH WAY , so were do you get your facts data and research , or do you have any , Just propaganda bull crap , LIKE the democrats claiming they are for jobs BUT the republican house has passed now 28 Jobs bills totaling from a low of one million to now 3 million American jobs permanent American Jobs that the Democrat senate refuses to even discus or look at , THIS IS FACT evidence these bills are waiting in the Senate for action , WHERE IS YOUR FACTS DATA AND RESEARCH , to support your statements
All we need is for Odumba to sign off on the pipeline and he can have the best of both worlds, 50,000+ jobs that are as close to shovel ready as it's going to get, a extension of the SS tax cut, and unemployment extensions. However he is waiting on the EPA, which is a big mistake. It seems as if the EPA's function is to find ways to stop progress, rather than finding ways to help business work within reasonable constraints.
Multiple Party,
Polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans support the Wall St. reforms that Obama "rammed" through; in fact, many think those reforms did not go far enough. As for health care reform, Romney was hailed a genius when he signed a bill in Massachusetts that is very similar to the national health care bill signed by Obama. It seems that Republican ideas suddenly become tainted when Democrats adopt them.
The only solution to our Congressional gridlock is to vote enough Repubs. out of office to create a Dem. majority in the House, and a filibuster-proof Dem. majority in the Senate. Only when that happens will the voice of the majority of Americans be listened to in Washington D.C.
@Darrel Segers
I don't support either party, but GOP just hit a new low to me with latest job bill. I mean vote jobs and pipeline separately, but NOO, they have to put them together for what?
Let's not talk about the last job bill Obama offers which help infrastructure, I am sorry, but GOP will propose the same bill later on just so Obama can't take credit.
Historically, there are more filibuster from GOP than anything we have seen in the last 100 years. We independent are not stupid, we know when one side use dirty trick to get what they want. "One term for Obama" that is what GOP set out to do at any cost.
I am tired of both parties, but GOP just hit me more now with that one term slogan with the Amercian people as hostage.
@ BlueBurner,
If you had these work habits you wouldn't have to worry about being fired, your reputation would precede you and you would never have been hired. Let's hope this can be remedied in November. Are you making a list of who's who, I am.
Finally an opinion from an independent. Independent voters are the most influential in the elections, so please clarify your viewpoint, Cuong, if you don't mind.
Those mean Republicans! They are blocking a "payroll tax cut" that specifically targets FICA! Blocking a cut to funding SS and Medicare! Those repubes are blocking a cut that 60% of the benefit has been shown to benefit people making 100K or more!
Those Basturds!
Get a grip libbies, Obama is a political prostitute who is willing to play politics with the funding for SS and Medicare JUST TO GET VOTES!!!!!!!!
Where is the sanity? I consider myself pretty liberal, but Obama is a disaster, and so is his "payroll tax cut".
Washington is so divided , that it does appear we now have a total gridlock; the people in this country are getting close to a real rebellion, our freedoms are being taken away by both party's, the media is no help; when the defense bill passed last week, allowing imprisonment without trial of any one deemed a threat to the Government, no national news carried anything about it, the last hope for America is in the Supreme Court, if they fail to halt this headlong charge into a police state, things may get a bit dicey .
The real solution is to vote out as many Democrats as possible. Then the true intellectual genius of the Republican Party can carry on the our great American traditions.
Another "garbage article" about the impasse with political slant thinly veiled. Democrats get to gether to "discuss their strategy" while Boehner huddles to "PLOT" with Republicans. So much for journalistic bias !
So, U.S. citizens are upset with the lack of "productivity" from this Congress. They are tired of the infighting and the gridlock. Who sets the tone for that "bipartisan" working relationship ? Who is supposed to be leading our country ??
I'll give you a hint, it's the same guy who said "we won" and "you will have to sit at the back of the bus". It's the same guy who seems to forget messy little things like a mandated BUDGET. It's the same guy who consistently rails against the opposition playing class warfare ..... before jetting off to New York for a $38,500 a plate fundraising dinner on his behalf !
Find the guy who has been in constant campaign mode.... ever since he was elected, and you will find the guy who is responsible for the rancorous lack of cooperation in Washington !
What this country needs is payroll reform. Companies should be limited to no more than a 10% return on investment, plus 150% of payroll. A 100% tax on the excess would motivate them to pay better. Foreign companies should be held to this standard with a tariff on those that don't meet it, equal to the difference. That way, if you want to do business in America, you will not be allowed to gouge customers or underpay workers. Class warfare by the rich makes this necessary.
I WON'T ALLOW THE HALF OF AMERICANS WHO ARE PAYING NO TAXES TO BEAR THE BURDEN OF THE OTHER HALF WHO AREN'T PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE !!!!!!!! This is how the Liberal mind works.....forget trying to figure them out. Barney Frank told me that Feisty Redhead is Chris Mathews nickname for his little head. Now it's all clear.
TX&Proud Take a good look at income statistics, the middle class is disappearing. If the Republicans win in 2012, you to will be poor too. You are buying into a lie that the American Dream is still alive. There will only be the very rich and the very poor and the bought and paid for government.
Whoa, TX! You might want to get off your shetland pony and rethink your nasty post before you start shooting off the cap gun of your mouth again. Remember, you are the public face of your failed political ideology and with friends like you, the GOP doesn't need any more enemies. It's got enough problems as it is.
Thank you for taking the time to read the information given by the posts in this topic and to analyze the information so that you can make an informative conclusion.
[/sarcasm]
How can one not be an enemy of the GOP. What a bunch of closed mind's with booze and golf for brain's. Wish everyone was required to state what party they lean to. here is an Independent.
More 'hostage taking". This is what the public is tired of. Republicans want to give us tax cuts at the expense of the poor and the elderly. Thanks but no thanks! Don't stop fighting for us President Obama!
I'm pretty certain that Republicans aren't the ones who wish to continually increase the size of the government until there is no money for anyone. How can you not see this?
Happy as hell about this new law
You need to have your mommy wash your foul mouth out with soap.....
Grow up you fool...
To the rest of you, did you all read the same article I did?
They are both playing hostage takers to get "leverage" against the others. Political brinkmanship, NONE of them are worthy of holding office, including the president for participating and egging it on....
No wonder 44-45% of the citizens think neither is doing a good job! I would just like them to DO their jobs.
Ana Where do you think these tax cuts are coming from? They are coming directly out of SS funding, which is in enough trouble as it is.
Ana.. Keep it up!! Not all of us are trolls or fax news watchers.
Obama 2012
And with this bill the GOP goes back on another campaign promise, which was to not encumber a bill with party 'sweeteners' to make it palatable in times of desperate need. Just more political posturing by the GOP as again they hold the average guy hostage to have their political way with us. If this makes the GOP merry for Christmas, let's have a happier New Year and vote all the GOP and TEA out of office. Start in Wisconsin - RECALL WALKER!!!
The whole thing is about the DoD getting cash and a further guarantee that taxes stay low on the US top earners, The GOP is playing games by dangling unemployment and other social funding to get what they want. 2 wars, looking for another and a certain path the the demise of the Roman Empire.
The top 3 reasons that the Roman Empire failed. 1) Military expansion beyond the means of revenue 2) Trade imbalance 3) Corruption--All of the crooks came to Rome, but they we're ordinary thieves, they were--for the lack of a better analogy, politicians and those who paid them for favorable laws.
The "takers" of your tax dollars are those defense contractors that charge the government for $500 toilet seats in the Pentagon. It's the huge military contractors that have cost plus, no bid contracts. It's operating 741 admitted US military bases abroad. How much would we charge another country to have a base on our soil?
The whole thing is screwed and done by a 2 party system of takers in the government and the corporate logos tattooed on our politicians asses.
We can all thank the re-puke God, Grover G . Norquist for the lowest ratings congress has seen.
Wow , once again media bias shows. When wil we ever get just reporting without a bias. the Dems are "discussing" and the repubs are "plotting"? no negatives there. It starts with slights here and there and moves forward. Way to go once again MSNBC.
It kind of tells you that the GOP's chances for putting one of its losers in the White House is going down the drain, doesn't it, Rich?
useless. (drops shaking head and walks away)
I'll tell ya what scares the hell outta me, the new "Embassy" they are building in Iraq is designed to support 17,000 people. Remember what Ron Paul said in the last debate, they will be contractors, military contractors.
WE have four military troop contractors operating within America, now we find out that one of them is capable of fielding a DIVISION size unit. You can bet your bippie that they are capable of a lot more than that.
AND WE HAVE FOUR, yes that is right FOUR of them operating in the US. Another one of those things you never hear about in the media.
Wonder where your tax dollars are going, they are going to building a private army. Why do you ask? Because the government is having a serious problem with the standing military.
#1 they do not understand what they have been dying for over the last ten years and have come to the understanding that they have died for NOTHING.
#2 OATHKEEPERS! Most of the standing military have sworn to uphold their oath of office. Most have agreed with the Oathkeepers pledge to follow their oath and not any orders that violate that oath, like the ten orders that no US military personnel will ever follow. (you can check out oathkeepers site for the list) The FBI and the US attorney has oathkeepers listed as an anti-government organization.
This is why they have been slowly building up private contractor armies that have no loyalty to the constitution nor the American citizen. This is why they need a defense budget ten times the size of anything we will need to defend America.
Like Ron Paul states in his plan, we can take the defense budget back to 2006 levels, about 1/4th of what it currently is and still be outspending the next nearest world power by 2 to 1.
Both the democrats AND republicans passed this monstrosity 93/7 it is out of the reconciliation committee now and is before the house for final passage. This means that it is the Senate version that was approved and the House needs to pass it. The say that they have modified the language that takes away our rights against seizure, but it is still in there...
This is a very dangerous time for America, Obama has promised to veto it, so I guess we will see what side he is really on won't we....
They will have to move many more rungs down the ladder to reach Murdock's pack of liars. Maybe it should say, "confers with Grover."
What we really need is a federal budget for 2012 with a deficit that does not exceed 229.27 billion dollars as has been promised by our President. The congress needs to help the President keep his promise to the American people.
It is no surprise that the two parties cannot reach a compromise agreement on this issue - this is just more of the same partisan bickering that has effectively caused our government to grind to a halt. Which is certainly why our founding fathers did not want to have political parties at all, much less only two of them. Effectively, we now have only two voices in Congress: one Republican voice and one Democrat voice. That is not how our government was designed to operate. Instead of concentrating on the needs and desires of the American citizens, members of Congress now focus essentially only on what the party and a few large contributors to the party want them to do. This needs to change, which will require 1) eliminating any rule that favors candidates or members affiliated with the Reps or Dems, 2) eliminating the economic factors that allow the Reps and Dems to essentially economically bully any third party candidate out of the race, and 3) eliminating the economic factors that allow the party and a few large contributors to control how our elected officials vote.
The American Overhaul Act (www.americanoverhaulact.org) is designed to tackle these issues that are plaguing our government. The Act is focuses on six separate areas:
- Congressional Term Limits: A maximum of two four-year terms in either House or Senate, and 12 years total in Congress.
- Federal Campaign Finance Reform: The vast majority of funds any candidate spends on a federal election campaign must come from a federal election campaign fund. These federal election campaign funds will be doled out equally to all candidates running for a position (candidates must meet certain pre-determined minimum requirements), and at least three candidates for any seat must receive funds.
- Congressional Size Limits: Membership in the House of Representatives will be permanently fixed at 300 members.
- Congressional Compensation: Congressional salaries will be fixed at four times the median household income. Additionally, health insurance will only be provided to members while they are actually serving in Congress (no lifelong healthcare) and pensions for members of Congress will be eliminated.
- Eliminate Party Favoritism: This amendment will require the elimination of all laws, rules, or regulations that favor or disfavor, either by inclusion or exclusion, any elected official or candidate for an elected office, based upon affiliation with any political party, or lack of affiliation with a political party.
- Federal Budget-Deficit Reform: The federal budget must be balanced, meaning the total amount of federal government spending must not exceed the amount of money collected by the federal government. There will be exceptions to allow for extra spending in times of national crisis, but the excess crisis spending will be limited in amount and duration, and must be corrected by an equal amount of underspending in the years that follow.
These changes will go a long way toward fixing the problems in the current system, thereby allowing members of our Congress to begin to focus on the needs and desires of the majority of Americans as opposed to the parties that they serve and a few wealthy organizational contributors. I urge everyone to check out the full text of the Act at www.americanoverhaulact.org. And, if you like these proposals show your support on the site and share it with your friends, family, and state and federal representatives.
The Radical Right Republicans have to be voted out in 2012.
There is no need to raise taxes on anyone. Why not agree to just put in the pipeline with a clause to the oil companies that if one drop of oil hits the earth they have to pay 100X the cost of cleanup? Sure enough as there is a pipeline there will be an oil spill.
Ah Congress, that`s where all the pardoned turkeys go to.
Hey Chuck Todd...How's that middle finger?
I see no reason why the wealthiest 1% of Americans, who hold 45% of the wealth, should receive a tax cut over the rest of Americans. The Democrats have a way to pay for this tax cut that involves millionaires paying a slight bit more, but the opposing party of "cutting spending" chooses otherwise.
And what percentage of this tax money is given to foreign countries?
anoble, you know why right?
Because the bottom 90% hardly has any money. Moot point. The top 10% controls the vast majority of the wealth, so they have to be taxed like it. The government needs more revenue to pay of it's debts, two oil wars don't pay for themselves, except in the minds of Bush and people who think* like him.
*By thinking I mean not thinking at all.
The top 10 percent hold 90 percent of the wealth and I would suspect that means they should hold a higher tax rate. When you pay all the taxes outside of the basic income tax. Social security, medicare, . state income tax, sales tax fcc tax on the phone, tax on rent. Well gee after I take my 35k a year income. Subtract the 11 k it costs my family for medical and copays. That leaves me 24k to get taxed about 20 percent when diluted with the leftover payroll tax and the other things i listed above. So wow I get to raise a family on 19 thousand dollars a year for food, clothes, rent, gas, school and supplies. So forgive me when I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone making 6 plus figures a year or makes millions or better.
Nobody listen to what this guy is implying. The bottom 52 percent rightfully pay no income taxes (there, that's a factual error he made as well). Why? Because they have virtually nothing left to pay from their income. http://www.lcurve.org/
Look hard at that graph. That is income distribution in the US. If the top 10% pay that much, it says quite a lot more about our wealth distribution than anything else.
Everyone pay tax, income tax is not the only tax out there in case you don't know about it.
Now, the top 10% got most of the wealth and guess what? They tried their best to avoid tax and historically have the lowest tax in the last 10 years.
Why continue to have tax cut for the rich? The same old "job creators" don't work and we all know that unlike the rich, the 90% will spend most of their money to circulate the market instead of hoarding millions/billions on offshore banks.
Let's take money from the people who earn it and creaet jobs. This administration and democrat officials are the most job killing group we have ever had, period. Every time you give the federal government $1 dollar, you never see it returned, they spend it and spend more. Our problem is not that taxes are too low, it is the federal government spending way too much.
Mark we have continued to give tax breaks and create loopholes so where are the jobs? We should have a booming economy if those things equate to jobs. They now pay the lowest tax percentage in history...where are the jobs? There are none because no one can afford to buy anything. Last I checked, Reagan voodoo economics proved to be a dismal failure.
Exactly every credit, deduction, and special types of income following different rules (loopholes) is the problem. Unfortunately BOTH the Democratic party and the Republican party have been adding them. In this particular example it is Democrats arguing for tax breaks. In the past is has been Republicans.
In general I prefer seeing the cost of the product I purchase without gimmicks. I am skeptical if I see a store offer a 50% off coupon. Usually a 50% off coupon on every item in the store means the retailer has marked up every item in the store by 50%. The tax code is full of gimmicks (coupons) and every income level uses them. What is hidden by the coupons is the true cost (what the tax brackets should be). Those in each income levels that have the resources to spend hunt down all the coupons and get a "bargain". Then there are other those in each income level that do not have the resources to spend who pay an extremely high marked up price (the actual tax defined tax brackets). I do not think the federal government should be in the business of doling out coupons and cash back rewards.
so would I taking....but the issue with the tax cut for the middle class is that it would at least keep the money that is already being put into the economy at the same level instead of reducing it. Money needs to be kept circulating in the economy right now. Tax breaks for corporations have proven time and again not to spur demand. The 1500 dollar tax break for a working family does go back into our economy. In a perfect world, a level playing field would be great, sadly we dont have that right now. I dont believe the government should have to issue coupons either. But right now we need to get demand back up as people do not have the money to spend and if we take 1500 a year out of the average middle class paycheck, that will leave even less.
Tammy,
You speak with such certainty about corporate taxes. I just finished my corporation's 1120 tax return a few months back and our total tax bite was a little over 40.5% overall, which does, of course, include several state tax returns.
Please tell me all about these wonderful "tax breaks for corporations" you like to refer to, since I am only a poor, ignorant Certified Public Accountant who needs to avail myself of your extensive, vast and complete knowledge of corporate taxation. We need to lower our tax bite.
Let's see if you know what you are talking about or are merely spouting the usual, unsubstantiated Democratic talking points ! I bet you cannot or will not do it. Do you have the guts to try ??
Anoble, (#5.1) links please. I call your numbers as BS. The last actual government numbers I can find are for 2006 and the top 10% weren’t paying anywhere near 86%.
You missed the part where I said coupons are usually there because the store over inflated the price by that amount to compensate. The federal government over inflates the tax rates to compensate for the coupon provided in the tax code. So if the true tax rate for the income under 110,000 should be 1500 less, then the honest answer is to shift where the tax brackets fall to compensate instead of making everyone cut coupons at the end of the year to compensate.
them beg for the amount back.
Why should any income have to search for a 15,000 mortgage coupon when the government should just be charging 15,000 less? Why do we have to split these federal taxes into a bunch of itty bitty tax to play hide the true tax cost game?
Jim has a point. Some companies and individuals get stuck paying over 40% because they can not find coupons when another company or business making the same amount pays 0 because the spend resources coupon cutting.
Jim, I would venture to guess you are not the one percent of which I speak. I refer to the likes of Exxon ect. When you get a subsidy such as the one Disney got for planting a few pine trees, let's talk. You're an accountant, you more than anyone else should see the disparity in this whole thing. I run a small business myself and would love half of the loopholes afforded to Exxon, GE, Disney, Microsoft and on and on.
Our lawmakers are now even more distant than ever from the mindset of the majority of American voters. Voters that elected them in good faith.
All the major news has been reporting on this spending bill for several days. Very little in this bill for budget cuts that are needed.
Perhaps funding minimum essential services until an agreement on cuts can be agreed to. Hopefully the sequestration will kick in next year and get the spending under control.
I think the story should read"government cant decide what to do to hang on to their jobs so they can keep up the graft and corruption that they have become so used to".Remember next November,any body but the incumbent.Its time to clean out the nest of criminals called congress.
Sir What programs would you cut?
anoble.... they have to keep borrowing until a good budget is in place.. which means cuts and taxes. So long as the republicans believe that raising taxes on the middle class while still giving cuts to the very rich there will be no set budget. Why can't the taxes be raised on the really rich? Because the republicans are in the pocket of each one of the rich. I do however see where that pipeline could be beneficial to Americans so why won't they agree to a compromise.. by the way the republicans actions are only a stall and that is hurting everyone including you.
KOREA7
Check out Ron Paul's Plan to Restore America, It's a good place to start!
Socialist? Is that a taboo word now? More than 25% the of the US programs are based on socialist idea and they are the one that making this nation strong.
Hippies, Liberal? I am sorry, but the last time I checked, those are the one that change the US for the better.
If you want to to use word, let's try this: Extreme Left is communist, which what we are afraid of. What about Extreme Right? Oh, Nazi which we all hate.
The US is not extreme left or extreme right, not pure socialist or pure capitalist. The US is a mixed of both in case many of you didn't know.
I really just don't think they get it.
I'm sick and tired of these do-nothing politicians. I think we should vote them all out, either that or start a term limit of 1 term each. There's plenty of good U.S. citizens who could easily fill their shoes and could do no worse than these politicians are presently doing. At the very least let's get rid of all the Republicans and Tea Party rookies. A few Democrats might be worth keeping but I have a feeling they're probably also thinking about their finances and re-election instead of making the tough choices.
I think many Republicans, not just the right wing nut job Sarah Palin shirt-tail kin folk that got elected last cycle, are going to find out about unemployment problems first hand come the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November 2012.
They have lost the Senior vote ("There are 50 million of us and we will be heard in the next election").
They have lost the minority vote ("Round them up and throw them out" Make them show a Birth Certificate from Hawaii if they don't look like us real "Mericans")
They lost the anyone brains vote by trying to blame the horrible economy on the President instead of Wall Street Fraud.
They lost anyone with Business Experience vote when they made the debt crises a major issue without realizing that EVERYONE who has ever been involved in small business, or managed a business, completely understands that cutting spending is a short term, short sited approach; and the only way to solve any business deficit is to increase revenue. The Only Way. Any business that has not been able to solve a deficit problem through increased revenues is called a "failed business".
We certainly have a failed political system. And the only Republican that has made any sense at all is Jon Huntsman, who is trailing all of the other pretenders. He is the ONLY candidate for either party that has pointed to the only Real Cure. There MUST BE term limits in Congress or there will never be anything other than bought and paid for Politicians who sign pledges to their Purchasers (Think Grover Norquist) instead of paying any heed to their Oath of Office.
Very good points, Jake. Along with seniors and minorities, the GOP has lost the votes of the moderates, as well; a very important bloc of voters. The Republican Party turned its back on its core group of voters when it decided to chase after the right wing lunatic fringe, exemplified quite nicely by anoble, by the way. Without the moderates, the Republican Party has nothing left except ultra-conservative zombies, right wing christian extremists, and dittoheads to support it's failed political ideology. Consequently, if the obstructionist Republicans block attempts to achieve a compromise and the government teeters on the brink of insolvency, the American electorate will be expressing its deep dissatisfaction at the polls at election time. The GOP is playing chicken with our democracy and the people aren't happy about it.
Obama by default in 2012. America is holding an election and there won't be enough of a GOP by next November to participate.
They get removed from office all the time. This has to be the most lame statement that is said over and over. Get them out office. The same people take their places. I would not have one job killing, over taxing, over spending, scare tactic, lying democrat left in office. All the democrats want is to have every American dependant on the federal government. They do not want you to think, they want to do the thinking for you. Talk about a do nothing congress. The senate has now been without a budget for 3 years, unprecedented in our nation's history and by the way, it is illegal and against our laws. Why aren't people asking harry reid, Mr Eeyore about this? In 2010, for the first time in our history, there was not a budget proposed by the democrat held senate and house. Never happened, before. So, before you rail about the do nothing congress, keep this in mind. Also, for the people that want the Bush tax cuts to expire. Keep in mind that the taxes do not increase for just the wealthy. It moves the marginal tax rate for each tax bracket up 5%. And for the people that do not know what this means, it means all of us 50% who have to pay federal income tax, will have to pay 5% more. The democrats again have used scare tactics to hide the truth. When and if they expire, you need to blame the scare/lying party, the democrats.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/15/news/economy/bush_tax_cuts_faqs/index.htm
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/price/100917
http://blog.seattlepi.com/morningeconomist/2010/12/10/let-the-bush-tax-cuts-expire-in-2010-or-make-matters-worse/
Liberals, dispute the facts. This is for the party that is looking out for the middle class.
Mark,
I say let all the tax cuts expire, including mine. The miniscule amount of tax relief I would realize wouldn't even put a tank of gas in my car. This country can't afford those tax cuts anymore, it needs revenue. We still have a war going on in Afghanistan and if the republicans' take control in 2012, they will probably get us involved in a war in Iran. This time we should have the money already designated for it, so we don't once again find ourselves behind the 8 ball in terms of increasing the deficit. What republican/ conservative could possibly disagree with that way of thinking? Oh, I forgot obout Grover.
karen finnestad,
There is an article today about this being the official "last day" of the war in Iraq. The article goes on to say that the Iraquis are not prepared to defend themselves. The next step will be Iran invading Iraq, trying to takeover and securing their military aggression by taking over Iraq's oil fields. This is being brought about by withdrawing BEFORE our high-ranking military heads said we should.
Of course, you are already predicting the eventuality of war with Iran even though the pullout has been brought about by Obama.
So your sneaky little phrase of the Republicans getting us into another war is misdirected at best.
Also, how much did the Libyan war cost and why did Obama get us into that where our national security interests were not at risk ? How much did that cost ??
Jim,
Correct me if I'm wrong but "w" was the one that set the date for the pull-out from Iraq. Obama was just adhering to that, and the republicans' have been talking war with Iran for years.(remember Mr. Bomb, Bomb Iran, Mr. McCain)? Libya, was a human rights issue and cost us very little financially and not one human life was lost in the effort as we were part of a coalition," "leading from behind," as I believe some of the republican lawmakers said.
Jim,
In regards to Iran trying to invade Iraq, we'll keep those drones flying over there and that should help keep things under control, and take action when and if it is necessary. I think when it comes to our national security, I'll put my money on our current President, he seems to be doing a pretty good job in that arena. When, in your opinion, would it ever be the right time to leave Iraq. It is not a militarily winable war.
Jim
Being in high school at the height of the Viet Nam war, I know all about unwinable wars. Many of my classmates came back in body bags or badly injured, both physically and/or mentally. It was the large protests that finally brought that disastrous war to an end but so much loss. War should be the last resort, not the 1st. Going to war on false pretenses like we did in Iraq was indefensible. Give the strong sanctions a chance in Iran, they seem to be working to some degree.
Wow, karen... it looks like I struck a nerve, so where do I start ?
#10.7 Obama was just adhering to that ? FAIL. Obama is under no obligation to adhere to President Bush's previously set "target date" which, by the way was a "hoped for" date and not etched in stone. Furthermore, Obama has already run over and counter-acted many of Bush's efforts ...... so when Iraq falls you need to remember ...... Obama is responsible. Bush has not been in office for almost 3 years and Obama needs to put his big boy pants on. Obama "OWNS" it ... whatever happens.
Libya was a waste of U.S. dollars. Now, Libya has NO STABILITY and it appears the Muslim brotherhood may take over control of that country. Moammar Khadafy was no risk to the U.S. but who or what will emerge may indeed be a threat to the U.S. The same goes for Egypt which is now unstable.
#10.8 In case you haven't noticed lately, we have lost domain over one or two drones .... and their technology may now be open to all numbers of nations. Their effective usefulness may have just gone down the toilet. You can keep your money on Obama, be careful how much you wager. He has reaped benefits of foreign policy of his predecessor.
#10.9 Going to war on "false premises" in Iraq eh ? Back to that same old b/s talking point ?? The terminology "weapons of mass destruction", so often linked to former President Bush, was used frequently by Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright ....... long, long before the younger Bush was ever elected ! I guess you'll have to blame that deception on Slick Wille ! Furthermore, the Iraqui war was voted on and approved by Congress ..... including votes "FOR" by John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Your argument, therefore, is "flakier than a Crisco piecrust" ! LOL !!
Jim,
Regarding Iraq, we were told to get out by the leader of Iraq. What are you suggesting, that we occupy a soverign nation? No wonder we are hated all over the world. Sadam Hussein wasn't anymore of a threat than Moammar Khadafy. Granted he was not a very nice person, but there have been terrible despots for the better part of a century, probably longer, so why go after Sadam if not for the oil and to even the score on an assasination attempt on the elder Bush. I remember "w" joking about not finding any weapons of mass destruction. Nice. I love how these lawmakers find it so easy to send someone elses child to war. They would have a lot more credibility if they themselves or their loved ones were shipped overseas. How many deferments did "chicken hawk" Dick Cheney have? He sure loved all those no-bid contracts to Haliburton though. Did you hear about the soldiers that were electrocuted while showering due to faulty wiring? Yeah, the republicans' sure care about our servicemen/women.
My brother, a former Green Beret, was an air traffic controller in the 1st gulf war, came back in 1991 and had a stroke due, according to his neuorologist, to the oil fields that Sadam started on fire. It weakened my brother's entire vascular system and the military had the audacity to cut off his occupational and physical therapy after a few months. He was making great headway so continued on with it at his own expense.
I can't see why they can't compromise... give the repubs the pipeline, but then the repubs need to raise the tax on the uber rich. It is a win win. Are our politicians so blind as to not see the obvious? Perhaps all Americans need to show up on the doorstep in Washington DC and let them know loud and clear. Extend the payrol tax cuts, agree to the pipeline, and raise the tax on the uber rich.... it is a no brainer.
God I hope SO!!!!!!
Anoble.. you are so one sided. This is a problem in our congress is all the one sidedness. It can't be all one way only. Our country was made on compromises that all the people could live with. This " my way or the highway" attitude is detrimental to us all.
This pipeline is a horrible idea. Are we going to allow the destruction of our states
environments just so the big oil guys have more money??
The oil companies cannot guarantee there would not be another Gulf spill nor can they say that the oil gotten from the pipeline would go just to the US supply. Why would we want this if all the oil goes to the world market? Yes there would be some jobs, but after it was built then what???
Not enough ongoing jobs to make a real difference and that is what we truly need.
Real jobs that pay a good salary in order to live on are the kinds of jobs we need.
Obama/Biden 2012
Blondie, so let's just let Canada send the oil to the west for who? CHINA. Obviously you and other liberals have a good plan to create jobs? Haven't seen one yet. There is only a few guarantees in life. The democrats want to spend and tax us to death and someday we all meet our maker.
Joy,
I think the pipeline issue needs to be studied further to see the potential impact on our environment. The democrats have compromised and capitulated enough during this congress. Do the right thing and extend the payroll tax cuts for 1 more year and extend unemployment benefits to help keep this economy going.
Yo Cliff............Obama said he would veto any bill that was sent to him and contained "extra" provision..........remember? I sure hope he sticks to his word on this because the opposition is nothing but a bunch of scumbags.
I haven't seen anyone asking for others to support them monitarily... what I see are people who do not understand that the taxes are lopsided and that the middle class has been buried under the pressure of tax while the rich pay pennies on the dollar in comparison.
anoble, pot meet kettle..can't you take a hint? Pack your bags rereg and Bon Voyage! ;-)
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Good shootin', Cynthia! Very well done!
Wow you don't like someones opionion so you get them banned or suspended................what happened to freedom of speech or is that only for Democrats??
His "opinion" isn't the reason for all his bans. Flagrant violations of the COH and the UA are the reason. Perhaps, you should go read it again.
Cynthia,
You amaze me sometimes. There are many liberal posters here on post inflammatory, hateful, name-calling crap, on a regular basis, yet seldom seem to get "corrected" for it. If you review it carefully, it seems many liberals are allowed to post with a much WIDER level of tolerance.
I was once banned for using something creative like "rectocranial inversion", yet some who regularly refer to other posters as having "their heads up their a$$" ..... seem to get a pass ! Why is that ? Mine was at least creative, not as direct, and required a little imagination.
Perhaps YOU should read more of the posts here to see who gets by with a pass regularly !
Republicans will protect the millionaires and billionaires at all costs, including the best interests of the United States. A strong middle class has no place in the Republican agenda.
I agree, shut it down to stop the spending!
It's too bad that American citizens cannot get together long enough to give all Congress an early Christmas present.
We should relieve Congress of all the stress of their arduous Jobs.
Here's a message for the 112th Congress. YOUR FIRED!
Good for nothing parasites.
Parasites need love, too Tallulah. But who in the hell are you talking about? Wall Street??
Shut it down. Send all the meddling bureaucrats home for good.
not a single one of them hesitate come time to vote their own pay raises.... amazing.
Who the hell do these ass holes think they are working for? Get rid of all of them, The federal government is totally inept. The states need to start over. This is a Republic where the states are in charge and set up the federal government. Unfortunately the vast majority of the states are lilly livered liberal ruled.
actually PJ4 they are ruled by the party they ascribe to. What we need to do is eliminate both republican and democratic parties. Don't vote strickly party, vote for someone who makes sense, or at least has the mentality to work at his job and not just be a figurehead who is owned by others.
And don't make your decision based on what you hear on the nightly news, do some real research.
Nice thought, joy...but do you really think the power structure is just going to go away because we dream it?? That's what makes the OWS movement somewhat legit. Which side are you on??
Joy: I have always voted for the individual no the party, this was the rule in the 60's & early 70"s somewhere the sheep started to follow each other
There's a new idea that I have not heard a million times. Get rid of them all. We do this most of the time and we always get the same.
I am sick and tired of this class warfare BS. We worked and went without from our early 30's to late 50's. At one point went without a paycheck for over 6 months, couldn't collect unemployment because we owned a business. So now we are caught up on back taxes, medical bills, house paid and kids through college and you want me to pay more? We went without for well over 20 years, no entitlements of any kind, and I believe we have earned what we have and will fight to keep it. If you want it go out and get it, struggle and work your a** off. We still donate to those in need; food banks, helping those who need a roof over their heads, etc. but I will retain my right to choose who I want to help because the government sure hasn't done a good job with it.
Then who gets left out, two?? Are you the decider??And how do we know you are fair and balanced??? Hmmmm!
I am the decider with my money. You must be one who thinks the government does a great job handling money.
it isn't class warfare it is tax warfare. And middle income people pay more dollar for dollar. We do not get hand outs, ie wellfare, foodstamps, ect. ect. We pay income, state, federal, local, sales ect. We do not get unemployment for free either. in fact if you owned a business that had employees you would know that that is also a deduction in our checks. I know that a business man also pays a portion and that is how it is. NOTHING is given to the middle class... we work for what we have.
So...we don't need government, two?? We all just decide what should happen in the country on our own?? Really??
That is not what I said...................We pay enough in taxes and what the governement allows us to keep we will then decide who we want to help.
So...why can't we do that now, two?? You are really not clear about where you are coming from. We pay taxes, yes. We let our representatives decide where our taxes should go, no? What is your problem??
joy you must not listen to the news or read the blogs because all I hear and read is hate against the rich and class warfare. Have even heard the president reference this. I had to go back and read what I wrote because you make it sound like I said unemployment is free and being a stupid business owner of course I would know this, just not sure why you brought it up. We also pay all the taxes you mentioned and have never received and of the entitlements you mention. Now I am beginning to wonder if you actual read what I wrote.
Ok, average joe my point is we pay enough in taxes and the government can't balance a budget so why would I want to give them more? Give them more and they will find ways to spend it and never reduce the deficit and I can almost guarantee you the extra taxes would not be used to help the average joe.
I'm not rich, but I'm not complaining, two. I live in the greatest country in the world and I appreciate it, warts and all. We will always have to work at making it better. We are in a slump right now due to both controlling parties. I can live with that...it seems you can't. I'm optimistic...what are you??
He is being "realistic" averagejoe.
When our government can PROVE to us they handle "our money" responsibly, then they will have EARNED our trust. What has been proven so far is waste, inefficiency, corruption in government (Solyndra, Corzine etc, etc) pork barrel legislation and massive government bureaucracy.
Growing government, a very inefficient government, is clearly NOT the answer. It is past time to "prune back" the government bush that has become overgrown and ugly.
Twotex, all of us middle class folk are working our butts off and doing without. Some of us for most of our lives in our attempts to be self-sufficient. We get the hell taxed out of our paychecks, eveytime we go buy something we get taxed again, we get taxed on our phone bills, our utility bills are going thru the roof, etc. So you're not the only one sacrificing. And I think what most of us want is for Corporate America to pay their fair share and to learn to also so without. Instead Corporate America has squeezed its workers to the breaking point and Corporate America is doing well. (Of course that hasn't led to job creation). Maybe if Corporate America paid a fair amount then we'd have more money for certain social programs that are necessary. It's not class warfare. It's simple fairness. Tho I do believe we should stop sending all aid to foreign countries. It just seems to be lining the pockets of certain people in power in these countrie and the regular people in these country's don't appreciate us anyways.
I have a hard time feeling anything but contempt for those monsters in congress. Every last one of them needs removed from office. They are nothing but corrupt immoral thugs who've taken over the country and made it their personnel pocketbook. They are'nt up there wrangling about whats best for you and I, they're fighting over what each gets.
The problems of the country are opportunitys for each of them to find a way to enrich themselves. The power they wield is disproportionate to their intelligence and morals. We need to vote every last monster out, get a fresh crop in, let them do the law making and budget keeping for a term, get all them out, do it again. Screw these long term good for nothings who spend their lives in high office, enriching themselves and taking advantage of the poor or dispossessed.
And this impending Gov shutdown, how many times has this happened the past year? ya they are both at fault, the GOP plays tricks to get what they want, the Dems play tricks to get what they want, both of them need to stop with the tricks and do their damn job!
The only answer to problems like this is a THIRD party and TERM LIMITS!
And the third party is behind which door, fanatic??
Let's cut the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars.
Dysfunctional Congress.
And the country will function without Congress how, DV?? You are just spouting. Big deal.
Go back to sleep Joe. You're too average to understand.
And you are advocating a revolution, eh DV?? How in the hell do we get rid of Congress?? Think a little, moron!
Now that's a real intellegent and logical response there Average and proud of it!
Ha, ha, you intellectual midgets are the biggest form of entertainment an old man like me has.
Grow up before I slap you with one of my depends.
The only thing you pathetic losers know how to do is come to these threads and flail insults at each other.
How's that for a bunch of Ad Hominem responses?
My depends against yours, two. There are a lot of us old codgers, aren't there?? Your responses imply we get rid of Congress. Exactly how?? It's not possible to vote them all out and you know it...so I infer you must mean something else...like revolution. If that's a stretch maybe you should make more clear and logical arguments. Ad hominem, indeed LOL!
Good luck with a revolution. People are too busy trying to figure out who to blame for the mess we're in. A million man march on D.C. might stir the pot, and make things a little more interesting. We old farts have lived through difficult times, but I can't recall when our government has been so corrupt. Maybe it's the Alzheimer's?
Go back and read your history, DV. There has always been corruption in our government...some worse, some better than today. Yes, it's disheartening right now because our economy sucks. BUT, we need to work through this without becoming overly simplistic or emotional. We campaign, we vote, we change, we keep trying to move forward. I think too many of us want too much on all sides of all political spectrums. I guess that's what makes us Americans. I'm still proud!
No doubt we live in the best country on the planet, but I really can't remember our government being so transparent about their contempt for the average people. Maybe it's the easy available instant media and a 24 hour news cycle? I think most people come to these threads for entertainment or sometimes to vent. At least a post here sometimes get response. If you look at the many threads written, most of the time people don't respond to thoughtful posts, but to crazy off the wall nonsensical verbiage. Our political parties have changed, and are no longer the parties that we old folk grew to know. Who's to blame? Your guess is as good as mine. I believe that people got so wrapped up in materialism that they have forgotten all those important things that has molded America.
True that, DV. People have got to just chill a little and figure out where the world is going. THEN they can address the types of questions you pose. Materialism is a byproduct of capitalism and that's a tough one to admit...so, where do we go from here? How do we address human issues with some empathy, yet maintain some economic advantage in the world to maintain our standard of living. As you suggest, there are no easy answers. BUT, screaming at each other based on political affiliation is absolutely futile in this environment. IMO, the focus of discussion should be on raising the standard of living for everybody. That seems easier that trying to get all the bums thrown out of Congress. I say we just slowly strangle the obstructionists and replace them with honest critical thinkers who want to maintain the American Dream. I believe that OWS is trying to get to this point in their own neophyte way.
this is the design of republican strategy...to stall economic growth, to destroy the spirit of the holidays 'Christmas' the priority of republicans is not the recovery of America nor jobs for Americans, Priority One-destroy Obama
Not much different that the Taliban is it, 50's?? Death to Obama's presidency at all costs! The pubs are avoiding the mirror aren't they??
The democrats have done nothing but kill our economy. If what the dems say and do provides jobs, we would all be federal employees. The want to overtax, overspend, over regulate, and make all americans dependant on the federal government.
Mark,
Pure and utter nonsense!