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U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder today leveled the Obama administration's strongest criticism yet at new voting laws that, for example, require photo ID's at the polls, limit early voting, and restrict periods for registration.
In a speech prepared for delivery at the LBJ Library at the University of Texas in Austin, Holder quoted Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), a longtime civil rights leader, who said recently that voting rights are under attack by "a deliberate and systematic attempt to prevent millions of elderly voters, young voters, students, and minority and low-income voters from exercising their constitutional right to engage in the democratic process."
What Lewis was talking about, Holder said, was concerns about "some of the state-level voting law changes we’ve seen this legislative season."
The Justice Department is now reviewing some of those new laws. "We will examine the facts, and we will apply the law," Holder said.
"If a state passes a new voting law and meets its burden of showing that the law is not discriminatory, we will follow the law and approve the change. And where a state can’t meet this burden, we will object as part of our obligation" under the Voting Rights Act, he said.
That law, Holder said, is being challenged in at least five lawsuits. And the U.S. Supreme Court recently expressed the view that the time may be ending when close review by the Justice Department is required for changes in voting procedures in states with a history of racial discriminating at the polls. Perhaps, some members of the court said, that requirement of the Voting Rights Act is no longer necessary.
"I wish this were the case. The reality is that in jurisdictions across the country, both overt and subtle forms of discrimination remain all too common," Holder said.
He called the recent effort at congressional and legislative redistricting in Texas "precisely the kind of discrimination" that the Voting Rights Act was intended to block. The Supreme Court has agreed to review the state's newly drawn districts and a lower federal court's substitution of a different plan.
New census data showed Texas gaining more than four million new residents, most of them Latinos, allowing the state four new seats in the U.S. House of Representatives. But Texas, Holder said, "proposed adding zero additional seats in which Hispanics would have the electoral opportunity envisioned by the Voting Rights Act.
"As concerns about the protection of this right and the integrity of our election systems become an increasingly prominent part of our national dialogue, we must consider some important questions. It is time to ask: What kind of nation and what kind of people do we want to be? Are we willing to allow this era, our era, to be remembered as the age when our nation’s proud tradition of expanding the franchise ended? Are we willing to allow this time, our time, to be recorded in history as the age when the long-held belief that, in this country, every citizen has the chance and the right to help shape their government, became a relic of our past, instead of a guidepost for our future?
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One step forward and two steps back, when you allow the Tea Baggers unmitigated power!
It's what was known as a poll tax, in years gone by!
Any ideas why voter suppression has become such a priority with the right wing?
Couldn't be because they realize they have a snow-balls chance in hell, of winning over the minority voters now would it?
Why are they so insistent on fixing something that isn't broken?
Only 9 cases of voter fraud were found in the entire country. Please Mr. Holder, check out Florida's new voting laws - and get rid of them!
If the Big O administration had it's way they would let every third world country in Latin America vote.
Nothing wrong with requiring an ID to vote. You need one to drive....buy alcohol....prove to the police who you are when there is a question. This faux argument of disenfranchisement is voter fraud supporting BS. Of course, voter fraud usually goes in the favor of the Democrats so why would they want to stop it?
You need one to drive....buy alcohol....prove to the police who you are when there is a question.
These laws are not just requiring IDs. They are requiring very specific forms of ID. But, the big questions are why are they suddenly trying to change the law now, why is it only in swing states with large minorities, and why only in ways that would hurt the Democrats?
The voting rights act was reaffirmed only five years ago by an overwhelming majority in the House, the entire Senate and by George W. Bush. The GOP needs to stop cherrypicking.
Don't need one to vote now and you would have to pay for one to vote under these new laws= poll tax period.....That is illegal.....Not voting without ID............I don't have one and don't need one they know me at the beer store and the bank so you need to expand your horizons to include all Americans not just rich ones like you because we all vote and we are entitled to without paying anything to do it............
I don't know, every single election I ever went to required two things, my ID and My voter registration card.
Has it been different in other places in the country? I have voted in CT, AZ and WA.
Feisty, pull your head out of Rachel Maddow's mangina and take a breath. You may experience a moment of clarity and realize that voter fraud is a real problem.
Have a great day
,'-D
OK I'll bite,
WHO are they disenfranchising?
Senior citizens have ID at least all the ones I know do. (I'm 65) I know a LOT of elderly and they won't get caught dead without their ID.
Anyone who legally drives a vehicle...
Anyone who serves in the military...
Anyone on welfare.... (got to have that proof of residency and citizenship to get benefits)
Anyone who works for a living.... (Real job, none of this under the table or casual labor crap)
Anyone who is a LEGAL immigrant....
So all of the above are excluded from the question, Who does that LEAVE?
ILLEGALS! the ones who cannot get legal ID, the reason the arguments about this being a poll tax fail?
Because everyone that lives everyday legally in the US has a job, drives a car, receives benefits legally, already has ID that is quite sufficient for voting. Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, it doesn't matter, Illegals are the only ones bounced by this, and all the libbies are up in arms over it like we are cutting their throats.
Don't think you guys can win without the illegal vote huh?
Ok so the bolded parts are what I am talking about. Im not asking with political spin, so do not spin it back like the above red head does.
Everyone in this country SHOULD already have a Valid ID. You are required to show it too often in this country to buy just about anything these days.I personally think, unless you are serving in the military, you do not early Vote. The election is held on the 2nd Tuesday, Get there or do not vote. There are already time limits on when you can register to vote. ( at least where I live ) and nothing has changed..
IF I have to prove who I am, and how old I am to buy beer, smokes, or even a Lotto ticket.. Why should I not have to prove who I am to elect the next leader of this country.
How does me asking you to show your ID before you vote, disenfranchise anyone?
I live in Central Illinois, not only did I have to show my voter id card last year they asked me for my state drivers license. I carry both. You have to have a picture id for a bank account, to drive, etc. I see no problem.
I seen a photo yesterday of the Iam/Boeing contract extension.......a union requiring picture id to vote. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70058.html
As usual Holder repeats a lie without anything to back it up. You can't claim there is no voter fraud when you have no way of measuring it! Even without ID requirements, we find enough voter fraud, both in registrations and elections to warrant stiffening voting requirements. Unfortunately, voter fraud usually is not discovered or prosecuted until after the damage is done (which cannot be undone).
Furthermore, there is NO evidence that voter ID requirements will disenfranchise ANYONE. Well, except the fraudulent voters. AFAIK, 31 states require some form of voter ID, with 15 of those requiring photo ID. I know that some, if not most, states provide simple and cheap (some free) photo ID for those that don't have a DL, etc. Even states that have photo ID requirements have methods for voters without ID to cast a provisional ballot that can be counted if they present a valid ID within a certain number of days after the election.
If someone is not willing to take the time to acquire a photo ID to exercise their right to vote, then maybe they don't deserve that right.
Why is this guy still employed? Operation Fast and Furious should have gotten him the pink slip. Sorry Feisty, but we have he most unrestricted voting process in the world, we know you libs want everyone to vote(3 or 4 times, if possible) with no restrictions. Asking for a photo ID isn't too hard.
Where I live, the law requires you to obtain a state ID if you do not already have a driver's license by the age of 18. Therefore, having an ID by the time one would be of legal voting age would be simple compliance with the law, not racist, oppressive, discriminatory, etc. Requiring you to produce documentation you should already possess does not equal a poll tax, not by a long shot.
@Irish B....
You must live in a fantasy world...there is no such "requirement" anywhere! It can be strongly suggested that you obtain official ID...but there is no requirement "by law". This effort by the Conservatives is nothing more than disenfranchisement of entire classes of voters. Running scared...they all know that if every Democrat, Liberal, and Progressive that could vote...would vote...there would never be a Republican elected to any office in this country except in local elections (for maybe Dog Catcher) in isolated Conservative pockets (i.e. Grand Rapids, MI or Po-dunk, Iowa)! Go blow smoke up someone else's a$$!
Yeah, get rid of the voter photo id requirement and let the NEW "Acorn" come to the polling place and stuff the ballot boxes. Don't forget to contact the Black Panthers to enforce the no-ID requirement, Holder.
Total and complete I(****).......(you fill in the blanks).
I see nothing wrong with requiring a voter to prove who they are. If they can't, they can't vote.
There is no reason on Earth why people should be worried about showing ID when they vote. On the other hand everyone should be concerned that Eric Holder is still the US AG. He is the most corrupt of all of Obama's corrupt cabinet members.
So we have rules in this country when it comes to voting but we don't want any method of proving that we are following these rules. Voting by mail should also be illegal because, again, you have no proof who filled out the forms. I'm sure there is rampant voter fraud but we are looking the other way or just don't have anything in place to prove it.
It's funny how we use minorities as the argument. "You are taking away their right to vote". Blah blah blah.
Stop at any inner city beverage, convenience or drug store and see how many minorities are doing one or more of these things, buying cigarettes, buying alcohol or playing the lottery. All adult only activities and all requiring proof of age. There is no other way to prove who you are than with a picture I.D.
There is no argument because if it is the only requirement to prove you are an adult for all these other activities it should also be the only method for voting.
Please stop with the argument that your local store owner or barkeep knows who you are and you don't need an ID, if you don't have that I.D. with you you are breaking the law even if you look like you are 90 years old.
Having an ID should be a federal law, not a responsibility for your state. Then we are all on a level playing field with an honest vote.
Hey all you progressive/liberal Americans. Do you side with unions? Do you think they are wrong to require ID when voting for their contracts?
It is getting harder and harder to understand what the hell is in the mind of a progressive/liberal. The only sure thing I undestand from them is that if a conservative says something it is wrong.
Egilman
The 84-year old woman in Wisconsin who had voted all her life, but was born at home and has no birth certificate. The 90-year old woman in one Southern state who voted all her life, even during the racist Jim Crow era, but can no longer vote because she doesn't have a birth certificate and cannot get one. The 25% of African American men who don't have photo IDs because they are poor, and so do not drive and do not have bank account requiring IDs.
THAT'S WHO
And in my state of Texas, while gun registration IDs are accepted for voting purposes because most gun nuts are Republican, but state college student IDs are NOT accepted because college students tend to vote Democratic.
Welcome to the new Jim Crow era as Republicans attempt to acquire permanent one-party rule by voter suppression.
JH-479998
There are already voter IDs. They're called voter registration cards that must be signed by the voter. Identifying forged signatures is easy for election judges. Election fraud is nearly nonexistent.
However, two of the few known cases of voter fraud are Mittens Romney claiming his residence was his son's unfinished basement and rightwing dominatrix Ann Coulter trying to vote in a precinct in which she didn't live. Ironic, ain't it that the Republicans are the ones pretending they're worried about voter fraud when they seem to be perpetrating it.?
Houston
A large number of college students are not residents of the state where they attend college and shouldn't vote for local issues. If anyone has gone through life for over 80 years and can't prove who they are I wonder how much they have contributed to this country. Did they ever work and pay taxes? If so, they have a social security number, right? I sometimes wish people who don't pay taxes wouldn't be allowed to vote anyway. All they vote for is the person who will give them something. The progressive/liberal excuses for not having ID for voting border on insane.
You can't prove that there is no voter fraud. You just keep saying it but you can't prove it. In Washington State the dems lost two out of three recounts. When the dems paid for the last recount they magically found eneough votes to win. No fraud, just good old dem politics. Who's perpetrating anything?
If they meet the state requirements for residency then they are citizens of that State and should be allowed to vote for State and local issues as well as National issues/President.
Dennis - should they have to prove that they meet residency requirements? How should they do that? With picture ID?
JH,
That varies by state but here in Ohio you have to prove that you have lived in the Ohio for 6 months or more. You need utility bills or a rental agreement(s) in your name.
Then in addition to register to vote you must have a valid State ID or driver's license plus proof of residence.
Houston,
I don't agree with that either, if they have been voting their entire life, then there has to be a way they can be registered to vote. There has to be a way to solve those issues.
But, that being said, those issues are the minority also.
When you talk disenfranchisement, you are talking about major, massive voting loss, and I just don't see it. What major constituency is being cut out of voting?
Dennis, Columbus, Ohio
The six month residency requirement was struck down by the SCOTUS a few years back, I know it was because it was a WA State constitutional amendment this last voting cycle to remove just such a six months provision from our State Constitution.
A six month waiting period for voting in any election in this country is unconstitutional.
Colorado has absentee ballots. So basically I can vote at my kitchen table and drop the envelope off in the mail or at the ballot drop box. No need to show ID.
However if I decide to go to an election booth, I just need my voter registration card and my signature. Nice and simple.
One more thing Houston!,
A student ID isn't legal ID for anything here in Washington. It's easy to go get an plain ID from the DMV which is required to buy booze and smokes. So most students have valid ID in this state and ALL Voters have a Registration Card, which all you have to do is show a valid address to get.
To get a CCW here in Washington, you have to show valid state ID and they take a thumb print and put it right on the permit. So, as a result, it is a lot higher proof of who you are than a student ID which only requires you to be registered at a school, in which all you have to do is sign your name.
No One is being disenfranchised here.
Why is it that the Black Panthers can intimidate voters but it is wrong to have to show an ID to vote? Holder needs to go.
Republicans: "We think it is a reasonable requirement that a US citizen prove that they are an eligible voter for the district in which they are voting-- a common state issued photo ID would suffice."
Democrats: "This is an outrage! Voting requirements of this magnitude totally disenfranchise whole demographics across the country! A photo ID? The illegal immigra--- er, I mean... the um (ahem! ahem!) the uh, minority voters in this country are too poor to have one of those! How can you expect these poor minority voters to acquire a state issued photo ID? What? Just because they're issued for free in 90% of the country? Balderdash! These draconian tactics punish the minorities unfairly-- and I want to be clear that I am NOT dragging race into this (again) for political gain. I am only trying to support my constituency of illegal imma-- haha! almost said it again-- my constituency of minority voters. This is Jim Crow all over again..."
Republicans: "It sounds to me like the only people affected are the people who are ineligible to vote."
Democrats: "And who are you to decide who's eligible and who isn't? Hmm? After all, you can drive a car without an ID and... no wait... that's not right. You can see an R rated movie without... umm... hmmm... Cigarettes? No... Beer? No... Well shoot... I'm pretty sure that you can breathe without an ID, so why doesn't that right to oxygen extend to include voting for the representatives of government?"
Republicans: "Do I really need to answer that?"
Democrats: "Obstructionist!"
YOU are totally wrong. Quite a number of states have voter ID requirements - many of them PHOTO ID required.
Those states would be?
Hell, just name a couple!
It shouldn't be a problem giving some proof of your claim...
Feisty, the entire List....
Photo ID Required:
Idaho, South Dakota, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Michigan, Hawaii
Non-Photo ID Required:
Alaska, Washington, Montana, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, Ohio, Virginia, Delaware, Connecticut, Rhode Island
Non-Photo ID Required while waiting: (on DOJ approval for Photo ID Required)
Kansas, Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, Wisconsin, Indiana, South Carolina
The rest of the States that do not require any ID:
Oregon, California, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Washington DC, New Jersey, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts
Very easy to get this info from Google.
So 3/5ths of the states require some form of official ID (student ID's are NOT official State ID's)
1/4th of these require Photo ID (soon to be half if the DOJ approves)
2/5ths of the States require NO ID at all (including WA DC, 51 different registration districts)
Thanks for the response Egilman!
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough, I want to know which states require anyone over the age of 18 to acquire a state ID...
I have never heard of such a thing!
Maybe IrishB can answer the question, since they claim it is a requirement in the state they live in.
I'll be waiting...
As far as I know there is no mandatory requirement for any citizen to have ID.
But, if you wish to participate in society, then you will have to choose to get one because if you choose to do some of the things society allows, you will need one..
That's what I'm saying Egilman!
BTW: When are you going to dazzle us with a snappy avatar? ;o)
Fiesty..."a poll tax"...hahaha...laughable...the United States Supreme Court said that ID laws are Constitutional...ergo not a "poll tax"...you do not know more than the United States Supreme Court...no matter what the libbie lemings here tell you..isn't it cool?
Houston...
"25% of American Black males are poor and cannot afford an ID" What a crock of Shiot......
Dennis,
Go Blue!!! Directions to Columbus... South until you smell it, east until you step in it.
Everyone Else,
Again, the rate is .0002%. Obviously, the standards we have in place now are working, why do you suggest we change them?
Then, think of the logistics...
The average cost of a driver's lisense is about $20, a passport is about $100, a birth certificate is another $20, and a criminal background check is about $30. Assuming those would be the four things you would have to combine together in order to have one, overall, identity card, you're looking at $170/person. For a family of four, that would be $680. That's more than most people receive for an entire month of benefits from the government. Who would cover these expenses? If it's required by the government, and you're Consitutional rights are dependant on it, how are you proposing people who can't afford this would receive there's? That's to say nothing about the fact that things get lost. I'm only 30 and have already had to replace my birth certificate, and believe me when I tell you that I come from a SUPER organized household. Lower class people are less likely to own real estate, ergo more likely to move, ergo more likely to lose paperwork, and they're the least likely to be able to afford this.
Yes, being able to ID yourself is a compelling interest, a compelling interest that's already handled appropriately in voting. Voter Fraud has a rate of .0002% (Non-Partisan Brennan Center for Justice), where is the compelling interest for increasing the standard pertaining to ID's for voting??? This isn't about simply identifying yourself, this is about making identifying yourself harder and, therefore, limiting a civil right based on that increased difficulty. You have no compelling interest to increase the difficulty with a rate of .0002%.
Try to fly, drive,cash a check, get any government benefits, get into a federal court house, get into a federal building, file for medicaid, medicare, social security, welfare benefits, state supplemental pay, get a job, rent a car, buy a car, get on a train, go greyhound without a picture id; Holder is a complete horses rear end, and a liar, he said he did not know about fast and furious until a couple of weeks before Congress called him to testify; A OUT-RIGHT LIE, no field agent, no regional supervisor, no deputy director, no director no deputy attorney general would have allowed fast and furious without approval from the attorney general, no attorney general would have approved it without approval from the white house, period, I retired from the government at a deputy director level, no one at any level would allow fast and furious without a direct approval from the Attorney general himself, period.
Saxon, did you read anything before posting...
For every other situation where the government asks for your ID, it is either not a Constitutional right, or they have probable cause. When you get pulled over, they have cause to believe you were speeding and driving isn't a protected civil right. When you buy liquor, you don't have a protected right to purchase it. Not even when you purchase a gun, seeing as there is no right to BUY a gun, hence many people's purchase applications are turned down. This would be akin to having to produce government issued ID before receiving a public defender, or even posting something on this thread, seeing as the right to legal council and speech are, like voting, protected by the Consitution.
Can you respond to this, or anything else I said in 1.40?
Again, this isn't about getting an ID, it's about making ID's harder to get. With a voter fraud rate of .0002% what is your reasoning behind the increased scrutiny in ID's?
sarah; the right to vote is a privilege given to American Citizens by the Constitution; first you must prove that you are eligible to exercise that privilege. A state, municipal, county, or federal government issued ID, proves that you are eligible to vote; before you receive a public defender, you must prove who you are, and give evidence that you are qualified to have the State or Federal government pay for one on your behalf. Posting on a web site is not a governmental controlled duty, voting is a governmental controlled duty.
Saxon,
Holy crap, it's not a privelege, it's a RIGHT! Check out the 14th, 19th, 15th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments, as well as the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Second, you didn't answer the question...
Again, this isn't about getting an ID, it's about making ID's harder to get. They already have identification standards is place that produce a voter fraud rate of .0002%, what is your reasoning behind the increased scrutiny in ID's?
Sarah; THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS A PRIVILEGE, RESERVED FOR American CITIZENS OVER THE AGE OF 18, HAVING NO FELONY CONVICTION(UNLESS A PARDON) and not being under a judicial commitment. The privilege did not even extend to women until the 20th century (and then they abused that privilege by outlawing whiskey, bad idea that was ).
Saxon,
You still haven't answered the question...
Again, this isn't about getting an ID, it's about making ID's harder to get. They already have identification standards is place that produce a voter fraud rate of .0002%, what is your reasoning behind the increased scrutiny in ID's?
hi sarah; in the states that require a picture ID, it is issued for almost nothing, if you sign a indigent form, you get it for free, it does not make it harder , it makes it fairer, I guess you do not remember the graveyard voting, still going on in some larger city's, ask the people in New Mexico how the buses take scores of people to register to vote, who do not even speak English, translator's are provided; prevention of voter fraud is the object of the laws, not making it harder to vote.
Saxon,
YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE QUESTION! You say all that, but the voter fraud rate, with the system we currently have is .0002%. Why should we make it more difficult, when it obviously is working seeing as that rate is negligible.
Can you find me any non-partison citation or source that lists voter fraud as having a rate over 1%? You can "ask" all the folks you want, but that doesn't make anything a "fact" or a "truth".
The Feds, the CBO, and the Non-Partisan Center for Justice have found it to be at a rate of .0002%.
sarah; no one knows what the amount of illegal voters are, since there is no way to keep count, since there is no ID required, voter fraud that is counted is mostly from ballot box stufing, graveyard voting, ; the illegal vote is very high in the southwest, were all it takes is a utility bill with a address to register; ask congressperson Dornian(sic) of Orange county California, he lost his seat do to a influx of illegal aliens voting, his lawsuit to nullify the election became moot, when the courts could not determine who in fact voted, States that have instituted a picture ID, have had no problems those on welfare have a id issued to them for welfare payments and food stamps, those who own a car, truck, motorcycle, have a drivers license, those in the military have a military ID card, students have a student ID card, the elderly have a card that can be picked up for free at any motor registration , or voting registration office, remember to vote you must first register to vote.
Saxon,
I give. I guess some people are beyond hope. You keep justifying it that way if it makes you feel better, but I can't afford to lose anymore IQ points by reading your ignorant posts.
I'm sure you and your uncited sources are way more knowledgeble than the feds or the CBO, right?
sarah; you seem like a nice involved person; do not call people ignornat just because they have a different prescriptive on this matter; yes illegal voting is becoming a national problem, we have open borders, and no real numbers of the amount of illegal aliens are now residing in this country, please enlightened on why having a photo ID, to vote as a American citizen is so wrong; with Obama care having passed , everyone in the United States will be required to have identification of who their insurance carrier is, and a national number assigned to them, the insurance company's are already saying they will be issuing ID cards, that may also have your picture on them.
We in this country have zero business talking about democracy when we allow voter suppression. I'm glad AG Eric Holder is examing this issue carefully and thoughtfully.
Think Progress:
In the wake of the 2010 elections, numerous GOP-controlled states have adopted so-called “voter ID” laws to target the entirely fabricated problem of in-person voter fraud. Such voter fraud is so uncommon that a voter is 39 times more likely to be struck by lightning than to actually commit fraud at the polls. Yet because these laws also disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters in demographics that tend to support Democrats, they have become the darling of GOP lawmakers.
Senate State Government Committee Chairman Charles McIlhinney (R-PA) said he has seen no proof that people are casting illegal ballots, but he also said he’s seen no proof that tightening the requirements would deny anyone the right to vote.
So the GOP has no evidence whatsoever that voter fraud exists in Pennsylvania, yet they are pushing this bill through anyway. Sadly, America has seen this movie before.
Maybe your party should not have overreached and tried to transform our country into a European style country and you would not have lost all those seats throughout the country that allows Republicans to try and protect the foundation of this country.
What was Obama's quote, you lost, get to the back of the bus, or something like that?
Though if an ID is require, I do think there should be no charge for it.
Voter suppression? When someone cannot prove they are eligible to vote but are allowed to vote anyway, that is suppressing the vote of those that legally have the right. That is a crime.
Unless you can determine whether people are eligible voters (photo ID), you can't know if people are casting illegal ballots. That is akin to claiming no one is speaking when you have your ears plugged.
Did you even read the second part of that statement? he also said he’s seen no proof that tightening the requirements would deny anyone the right to vote
Enact voter ID to minimize real or potential voter fraud and investigate and prosecute cases of voter suppression.
BTW - we have seen this movie before. There are plenty of documented cases of fraudulent registrations and fraudulent voting (dead people, cartoon characters, etc).
Dr Larry:
There are also lots of cases of elderly people showing up to vote only to be told that they are dead and have been removed from the voter registration rolls.
Then I am sure you wouldn't mind sharing the the sources/links with us...?
Well Feisty,
Outside of the one I actually know about here in Washington State during the 2004 election, the only link with actual information is here....
biggovernment.com/mvadum/2011/11/22/ex-dem-congressman-voter-fraud-is-commonplace-voter-id-is-the-cure/ (remember to put the http:// in front)
It does discuss the most common way to use voter fraud in an election and after a while it goes into all the acorn crap, but the initial info seems sound....
I will keep looking, and if I come up with more I'll post it.
Thanks Egilman!
There is a ton of evidence out there that the amount of voter fraud is miniscule, however, I found this to be enlightening;
Feisty, you might want to read this article also,
www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23731
Also it seems to be very balanced, the section on the 2004 WA election quotes only the totals the court found as valid, I was quoting the counts the secretary of state found valid.
Then there is this;
December 6, 2011
Throw his sorry ass in the klink and lose the key!
I've always liked Brennan Law, even though it does slant a little to the left, (lawyers usually do), it usually does cover the topics deeply and is a very good read to get a decent basis on an issue.
Single person voter fraud is Rare, it's the systemic organized voter fraud that is hardest to catch and prove, but from what I've heard happens in almost every election. and it centeres around the absentee ballots, the mail-in ballots. That's a system that is ripe for fraud....
And it's the one we are stuck with here in Washington.
I agree, if you cannot follow the rules then you pay the price, republican or democrat...
You have to show photo ID to buy a jug of Thunderbird so why do you think that making you do the same thing to vote is discriminating against you?
Amen!
Don't do the 'crime' if you can't do the 'time', I don't care which side of the aisle you sit on!
feisty -
A finding of "voter fraud is miniscule" is ridiculous on it's face. That's about like saying there are no yellow cabs in NY, based on your observations from you closet in Ottumwa.
You can't prove the negative in this case. If you don't check for ID , you can NEVER know if the voter is legal. Checking for ID will clear this all up.
Dr. Larry - I didn't ask for more of your ramblings.
I asked for proof of your accusations.
Your failure to do so confirms, you are making @!$%# up as you go...
See, I proved my case with sources while you continue to make a bigger fool out of yourself! lol
Thanks for playing little buddy! We have some lovely parting gifts for you! ;o)
Now where did the good Dr. run off too?
Still waiting little buddy!
DR. Larry,
If you read the links that both Feisty and I posted above, you will realize that INDIVIDUAL voter fraud is indeed RARE, but systemic voter Fraud is in fact real and does happen more often than anyone wants to admit.
On that basis, between us we have established the reality, we are both right. So yes it is an issue that needs to be dealt with, the only question that remains is HOW we deal with it...
This eric holder must be a racist if he says not letting felons vote affects blacks the most. Although has a point near atlanta a statistical anomaly happened where 12 blacks where convicted of voter fraud just last month, these where not ACORN.This should have been national news not local. http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud We have no way of knowing how much fraud exists without requiring ID. In mexico a mexican citizen needs ID to vote but he can vote in several US states without one.
Posted: Nov 22, 2011 4:51 PM EStUpdated: Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM EST By Stephen AbelQUITMAN, GA (WALB) - 12 former Brooks County officials were indicted for voter fraud. The suspects are accused of illegally helping people vote by absentee ballot.
Hey fiesty redhead can you not afford $10 every 5 years for an ID? Here are some voter fraud findings for you but you cant tell how much is going on when mexican citizens can vote in several states without ID. http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=163905 Acornvoter registration recruiter indicted on voter fraud charges12:32 PM, Jan 5, 2009, http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud Posted: Nov 22, 2011. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/14/AR2010071405880.html 2008 voter-intimidation case against New Black Panthers riles the right. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html. Eric holder is a racist for saying blacks are most affected by preventing felons to vote. Fiesty if there was a law against speeding would all speeders get caught?
Keep in mind my last link shows 113 people convicted of voter fraud in 2008 in just one state, and just like speeders, not all that break the law get caught
Once someone completes their sentence they should be allowed to vote. Private prison lobbyists writing our laws will eventually lead to a (worse) police state and fascism. I hope a disenfranchised ex felon takes their case of being forced to pay taxes while deprived their constitutional rights all the way to the Supreme Court.
It's getting to the point where some of these politicians are so at odds with the best interests of the people they're supposed to represent that gerrymandering, disenfranchisement and outright cheating is the only way for them to win an election.
For every other situation where the government asks for your ID, it is either not a Constitutional right, or they have probable cause. When you get pulled over, they have cause to believe you were speeding and driving isn't a protected civil right. When you buy liquor, you don't have a protected right to purchase it. Not even when you purchase a gun, seeing as there is no right to BUY a gun, hence many people's purchase applications are turned down. This would be akin to having to produce government issued ID before receiving a public defender, or even posting something on this thread, seeing as the right to legal council and speech are, like voting, protected by the Consitution.
Yes, being able to ID yourself is a compelling interest, a compelling interest that's already handled appropriately in voting. Voter Fraud has a rate of .0002% (Non-Partisan Brennan Center for Justice), where is the compelling interest for increasing the standard pertaining to ID's for voting??? This isn't about simply identifying yourself, this is about making identifying yourself harder and, therefore, limiting a civil right based on that increased difficulty. You have no compelling interest to increase the difficulty with a rate of .0002%.
Sorry folks, I tipped off Spanky that there was a thread on Holder...It's one of his favorite talking points, so I'm sure he'll have a whole lotta nuthin' to say.
...he should be here any minute...as soon as he figures out why John Corzine isn't in jail.
You need to be 21 and ID to buy booze...you need a driver's license to drive a car...you need proof of immunization to get into school...Why not an ID to vote? Because the demoloons have no problem allowing ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (umm "undocumented wokers") to vote because they are part of their entitlement base.
Holder the LIAR is on his way out soon after his "fast and furious" f* up. Then we'll have an AG who is actually supports the MAJORITY of the tax payers' wishes instead of being a suit happy socialist like obozo. Both clowns are going down.
Doubtful if Gingrich is the republican's nominee. I don't like Obama, but even holding my nose, I can't vote for gingrich!
No "Newt World Order" for me!! Newt is worse than Obama. Ron Paul 2012!!!
Amen!!! Hes the only candidate that seems to get it.
The dems have selective memory wwhen it comes to ACORN and voter fraud
Nobody voted illegaly now did they? in that case it was people filling out fraudulent apps not voting so get your facts straight...You are wrong we all remember it.....We just remember the facts not the lies Fox told you.....
umm, filling out fraudulent apps to vote is voter fraud.
wow.
How would we know? No one checked ID, did they? That s the whole point.
If you don't measure it, you have NO idea how much of it there is.
Sooooo...... YOU get YOUR facts straight.
To..Dr Larry""'
Well then how do you known that..
No, that was actually fraud against ACORN, which ACORN itself reported. There was no voter fraud in those cases whatsoever.
How do I know WHAT? I know that you can't count anything without measuring it.
LOL - after they were outed.
No, the report to the elections commission was made by ACORN. No one would have known otherwise.
Dr. Larry,
Last time I checked, the burden of proof is on the accuser. You're accusing them of the crime of voter fraud, YOU have to prove it.
Voter ID laws are outrageous! How dare state officials try to restrict voters solely to those eligible to vote (by requiring IDs). Just because we have to provide identification in order to drive, buy alcohol, get a loan, go to school, or when police ask for it are no reasons we should provide it to vote. After all illegal immigrants don't need to provide any identitfication so why should citizens? Especially for something so trivial as voting! Who cares, right?
Or is it important that the homeless, mentally ill, iliterate, or undocumented be allowed to participate in our great democracy? They would all make exellent voters being fully informed of all the issues of the day and ready to make an informed choice! Expecially if it meant voting for politicians promising them more freebies from taxpayers or giving them rides to the polling stations!
I have lived a large portion of my life without Id and I can go to the liquor store,cash checks at the bank and even vote without it...The people know me at all of those locations.....Why should I have to buy one now? Just cause a black man snuck in the oval office and a large portion of White America can't stand it? I don't think so.........I am not rich and shouldn't have to pay to vote.....Never did before so why now? Are they giving away free ID? I didn't think so.....It wouldn't disenfranchise as many poor folks if they did and that is their object...You just don't get it and never will till you turn off Fox News
SW you could not even open a bank account now without an id. It is required in the patriot act. Go ask your bank about it.
SW Philly = huge bullshiatter
The homeless? Of course the homeless have a right to vote. I can't believe the degree of ignorance on display from many of these posters.
Those who keep using the you need ID in order "to drive, buy alcohol, get a loan, go to school, or when police ask for it" don't seem to get that it's not ID per se that's in question, it's the special TYPE of ID being required by these news laws which will end up cutting many people out of the system for no reason at all other than to allow Republicans to manipulate election results.. No matter how many times ignorant people clamor about voter fraud, the reality is there simple is no voter fraud of any consequence.
What this all shows is that even Republicans know that they can't win on an even playing field because they are simply the minority in this country. Hence the need for the Republicans to swift boat, lie, spin and cheat anyway they can to win elections at any cost.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideological-group.aspx
This says you are wrong culheath.....looks to me the liberals are on the low end of the totem pole!
Sorry, but 40% conservative versus a combo of 36% moderate and 20% liberal means conservatives are out numbered 40% to 56%. Thanks for proving my point though...oh, and for playing. Next.
irate Ken:
I would suggest that we start administering a basic test on the American Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and recent relevant legislation and Supreme Court decisions. Passage of this would definitely support your premise that only those educated on the issues should be able to vote.
By the way, where exactly is that requirement mentioned by our founding fathers?
LOL - Thank God someone actually gets it. ;) Yep - why worry about voter integrity?? Did you know that Canada requires 2 ID's to vote AND that a voter is listed on the voter roles?? Wow - we are so BAD here in the US - allowing people to register to vote the day of elections in many states and not requiring proof of citizenship and residency. Get your heads out of your a$$es and use some common sense! Everyone should be required to show a photo ID (free to most people) to VOTE - otherwise the vote can be STOLEN from those of us who are legally entitled to vote. Also = just for a fact clarification - Jim Crowe laws were put in place by DEMOCRATS - not Republicans. Of course you liberals who like revisionist history will try to tell us that those were not "real" Democraps - LOL! Not gonna work!
SW-Philly yea you didnt need an ID for most of your life as most dont get IDs until they are 16-18, grats on having everyone at the liquor store know you by name. Culhealth- a state issued photo ID costs $10 and states with voter ID laws even offer them for free, is there anyone in the nation that can't afford about 2 packs of cigerettes every 5 years esp since you need ID to get govt. benifits?? As for how many get caught if there was a law against speeding would all speeders get caught?
Here are some voter fraud findings for you but you cant tell how much is going on when mexican citizens can vote in several states without ID. http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=163905 Acornvoter registration recruiter indicted on voter fraud charges12:32 PM, Jan 5, 2009, http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud Posted: Nov 22, 2011. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/14/AR2010071405880.html 2008 voter-intimidation case against New Black Panthers riles the right. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html. Eric holder is a racist for saying blacks are most affected by preventing felons to vote.
Here is a couple articles for some of you to contemplate.
After two days of testimony and an hour of deliberation, a Tunica County jury returned a guilty verdict in the case against community activist Lessadolla Sowers.
Sowers was convicted of 10 counts of voter fraud and was sentenced to five years for each count. Circuit Court Judge Charles Webster ordered Sowers to serve her terms concurrently with no possibility of parole. She was also ordered to pay restitution and court costs.
The verdict came after the state presented evidence that Sowers committed voter fraud in the weeks leading up to the democratic primary in 2007.
In his opening remarks, prosecutor Bill Gresham said 31 absentee ballots were seized by the Mississipi Bureau of Investigation in 2007 after allegations of misconduct. Those 31 ballots led to 31 counts of voter fraud in the initial indictment against Sowers. During court proceedings, 21 counts were dropped for various reasons and 10 remained.
http://www.tunicatimes.com/index.php?view=article&id=1176
Notice the date April 21,2011.
Then there is--
The criminal enterprise that Obama's Justice Department refuses to investigate despite extensive evidence of fraud and corruption is guilty of a felony in yet another state.It marks the latest of many legal defeats for the Chicago-based community group known as ACORN, famous for illegal voter registration drives, embezzling federal funds and a tight knit relationship with the president. In fact, Obama once worked at ACORN and the group's massive campaign drives helped him get elected in 2008.Facing more than a dozen felony charges in Nevada, ACORN pleaded guilty to one count this week for illegally paying canvassers to register voters during the 2008 presidential campaign.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/04/acorn-guilty-again-obama-doj-still-won-t-investigate/
Then there is this--
LAKE COUNTY, Ill. - An illegal alien from the Philippines was arrested Thursday morning on a felony complaint charging her with 17 counts related to voter fraud in Lake County. The state charges resulted from a joint investigation conducted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and the Lake County State's Attorneys Office. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) also provided assistance.
Maria Azada, 53, of Grayslake, Ill., was arrested March 17 by ICE HSI agents and a Lake County State's Attorneys special investigator. Azada faces 17 felony counts in Lake County Circuit Court of perjury, mutilation of election materials, and tampering with voting machines in connection with illegal voting by a non-U.S. citizen.
The investigation began in February 2009 when Azada admitted to a USCIS officer during an interview for an immigration benefit that she had voted in an election. It is illegal for foreign nationals to vote in national or state elections in the United States.
A subsequent investigation revealed that Azada allegedly voted nine times in primary, general and consolidated elections between 2003 and 2009. According to the arrest warrant, Azada allegedly falsely claimed to be a U.S. citizen on two Illinois Voter Registration applications.
Notice if you will that this is from ICE.gov
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1103/110317lakecounty.htm
Want More??
$55 to replace your driver's license in florida, up $30 in one year. changed the style, too, no less expensive options, must have the new license for address, name ect changes. thx rick scot.
No, thank the Democrat legislation and RINO Charlie Crist, do you chose to remain ignorant or does it just suit your agenda?
Because if you had one single ounce of integrity you would not post lies! The fees went way up before he took office. Nice try though!
BTW, it is still $25 which is what Crist and company raised it to from $10. The also raised MVR fess from $3 to $9, registration fees doubled and so did many other things.
You think people would be happy that Republicans take a look at where their party is failing them, instead of being blind party hacks like most Democrats are today.
How could a true liberal stand Obama? He is a re-branded GW, nothing else!
uh, Fla's legislature is heavily Republican, has been for years.
Thank God for Rick Scott! I get to renew my license in a month and will GLADLY do so - whatever the cost is! There are MANY organizations who offer free picture ID's for free to the poor - not the same as a driver's license. But a state issued ID is not required for voting - just a PICTURE ID - two totally differently things. Ignorant voters and people really pi$$ me off! - sheesh!
NOBAMA ~ Don't think that's totally true. It's my understanding that student college ID's aren't considered valid and that there are only certain approved ID's allowed. I'm not against photo ID's to vote - as long as there is no fee involved and that they are easy to obtain.
Holder has no credibility concerning any subject matter! He is nothing more than a common thug criminal. His "False-Flag" Op of "Fast and Furious" was a very slimy,under-handed attack on the 2nd Amendment, and should have been the end of his criminal political career. Holder, and his little troll side-kick Napolitano, should have been fired weeks ago. However, it's business as usual in DC. What a joke!! Ciao
Amazing! Holder wants to disguise his attempt to legalize democrat voter fraud as a concern of racism.
An ID is required just to cash a check. Why shouldn't it be required to do something as important as voting?
Because some people can't afford the extra expense of having one but you don't know anybody who is tight on funds do ya ? I didn't have one for years and cashed my check at places where they new me...And the poll workers know me too......But I have never had to show ID before just now that a black man won we all have to shell out $50 for ID....You can I won't and in my state I don't have to and why should anybody any where? They have many other ways to tell if you should be voting or not they crosscheck all kinds of records and other ways...Instead of listening to Fox News scaring you,you should learn in ways besides watching TV and letting others tell you your talking points.......Mine come from life experience and educating myself........
sw-philly
And, you probably believe that Big AL Sharpton is a great man...
Not the bigoted political hack most of us know him as...
Maybe if we just had Black Panthers checking the ID's, Holder would be fine with it.
Considering many states offer FREE photo ID or at a very nominal fee, your complaint is BS.
This has NOTHING to do with race but everything to do with illegal voting. Not that that sort of thing ever happened in Chicago, for example, huh?
Who?
Chicago land policy - Vote early and often.
Serriously SW philly in PA you can get a state issued photo ID(not a drivers liscense ) for $13.50 and lasts for 5 years( it used to be $10). Initail drivers liscense is 34.50, and when you renew its 29.50. You must be one of those guys buying fake IDs, if you are not wanted by the law it would be much cheaper to get a real one. Unless the ID people know you as well as the liquor store people do and know you are not able to read the correct price.
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/fees/index.shtml
I don`t care I won`t vote if they pay me !!
SW Philly
The cost for a photo ID is just 13.50 in Pennsylvania, not 50.00. Just do with out one of your cases of beer,or a bottle of Jack Daniels and you've got it covered. But of course, your priority is to drink and gripe.
How is Eric Holder still in office after the Fast and Furious debacle? Just asking.....
How did Reagan stay in office after Iran-Contra?
Why do you liberals always live in the past? For the love of god, you people are pathetic!!!!
In virtually every case of voter fraud it went in FAVOR of Democrats, so why would they want to actually enforce something as simple as requiring an actual ID to prove who you are?
Enacting laws of this nature will stop the ACORN's of the world that commit blatant voter fraud.
Sure thing, AG Holder. What a burden - one must carry a photo ID to verify identity! Atrocious! And to exercise their vote, one that wants to vote early cannot vote as early as they would like. Unbelievable! Restricting periods of registration? That's racist!
I am sick and tired of these idiots, especially considering the voting fraud that has been exposed in (as I recall) Indiana recently, that complain about something so obvious a necessity as showing a photo ID to vote.
Holder needs to go - he's up to his neck in the gun running ops in TX and he needs to go back to night court somewhere.
What about the voter fraud in the 2004 election here in Washington that made the national headlines, this was the case that started the whole voter database clean-outs in many states. WE had over 2,000 dead people vote in that election, there were over 1,000 felons who voted without their rights being restored!
It was asinine! A forgotten ballot box that a judge said could be opened and counted after the election had been certified and on the SECOND recount!
A republican won the normal count, won the first recount but by a smaller margin, lost the second recount by just a few votes, lost the third recount by a few hundred votes. When the candidate challenged it in court the court said he did have issues but ruled against him to fast track it to the supreme court. When questioned about his refusal to take it that far, his response was "7/2".
7 liberals/2 conservatives.
I wonder where that rising democrat political star disappeared to, the I think it was the "Mayor" of Seattle, old Ron what is his name? he was the one who brought forth the "Missing" box of ballots.
It's been eight years, he's fell off the earth. (once he was voted out of office)
RON SIMS that was his name, as corrupt as they come, would make any Chicago politician drool with envy with what he got away with.
How do dead people vote ... or are you saying people are voting for somebody they know is dead but they know is still on the voter rolls.....or are you saying they troll obituaries to find somebody dead they know is still on the voter rolls and vote as them...?
yes, it was both tactics. In Washington (vote by mail) the ballots are issued to everyone who is registered, all it took was filling it out and submitting it.
To.Egilman """
Well how did they find out they were dead and voted.. ..they match up names after the vote..
There was no way to tell how many actually got thru, once it is submitted and logged the ballot is separated from the registration information and counted, There is no information directly on the ballot itself that identifies it with a voter, what they did know was there were filled out ballots from dead people (about 200) that were caught in the process of being submitted with the registration information intact. The 2,000+ figure (estimate) is what they were willing to admit to.
After that, they went through and did a search through the database for one county and found over 400 dead people still registered. It was a huge scandal. they passed a law putting the voter registration databases into a unified system, once that was done and audited they found over 10,000 dead people still registered to vote statewide.
The voter fraud issue is a scare tactic to increase the hurdles for voting. It doesn't matter if the hurdles are low or not, they're still obstructions to voting by some.
The arguement over whether or not ID is easy or hard to get is a distraction and the wrong argument. The discussion should focus on whether there is fraud and whether new restrictions or safeguards are needed.
Currently, in many places, there is no requirement to show ID. Prove to me why this should change before you erect new hurdles. The burden of proof should be on the shoulders of those who want to make voting harder.
To..Egilman """
That doesn't mean they voted ...anyway the last thing on a families mind when a member dies is to make sure they're off the voter rolls...
it's not the families responsibility, it the registrar's and the department of vital statistics....
Amunaka- Here are some voter fraud findings for you but you cant tell how much is going on when mexican citizens can vote in several states without ID. http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=163905 Acornvoter registration recruiter indicted on voter fraud charges12:32 PM, Jan 5, 2009, http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud Posted: Nov 22, 2011. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/14/AR2010071405880.html 2008 voter-intimidation case against New Black Panthers riles the right. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html. Eric holder is a racist for saying blacks are most affected by preventing felons to vote
This really is a dark time in our history. The move by the states with GOP/Tea Party governors and legislatures to suppress voting rights is not about fraud. ALEC (largely funded by the Koch brothers) is drafting laws for the conservatives without consciences states to limit voting. The President of ALEC has said in the past that he does not feel everyone should be able to vote. Democracy calls for encouraging all to vote while the libertarians and other right wingers want to limit voting to those who see the world as they do.
Yes, because requiring people to identify themselves before voting is a heinous act!
djj misses the point entirely. Writing laws to make voting more reliably accurate is all about making sure one votes legally. Not restricting one man, one vote principals.
The only documented incidents of 'suppressing voter rights' are the ones initiated by Democrats.
Like not allowing military ballots to be counted, intimidation at polling places and ACORN's antics.
Encougage all to vote even if they aren't US citizens right?
Vote early and vote often, the Holder strategy to keep his job even though he's made mistake after mistake.
Mexican citizen need an ID to vote in mexico but they can vote in several US states without one. Just last month 12 blacks got convicted near atlanta for voter fraud but it was only local news.
Here are some voter fraud findings for you but you cant tell how much is going on when mexican citizens can vote in several states without ID. http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=163905 Acornvoter registration recruiter indicted on voter fraud charges12:32 PM, Jan 5, 2009, http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud Posted: Nov 22, 2011. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/14/AR2010071405880.html 2008 voter-intimidation case against New Black Panthers riles the right. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html. Eric holder is a racist for saying blacks are most affected by preventing felons to vote
Holder; don't trust him, can't stand him...he is the epitome of a two-faced sleaze ball.
Millions unemployed and this idiotic jerk still has a job?
He fights to keep our citizens unemployed and poor and we are supposed to care what he says? Hell no!
Gee. What an imposition on my freedom. I need to show an ID.
Gimme a break Holder. You're nothing but a political hack.
Holder cares about the voters rights act?
images of the black panther party standing outside the polling place with clubs are flashing thru my head...
a law or regulation that is applied equally to everyone, black, white, hispanic, whatever, is not discriminitory.
what's wrong with requiring all voters to show some kind of I.d., as long as you ask EVERYONE to do so?
What's wrong is it prevents ineligible folks from voting.
Hmmm.............
And Holder supposedly is upholding our laws. Har, har, har, har, har,........
To..Chumbkt"""
Those we're not black panthers ..it was a minority housing project voting place ..no one was intimidated or prevented from voting it was called in by a repub activist and hyped on fox news ...that now the very misinformed think this happened nation wide ...it's all BS
And here they thought Acorn was bad...What a bunch of dimple dicks...
I am actually on both sides of this issue.
First of all, you need a photo ID to do almost anything in America. Therefore, lobbying against them is clearly an attempt to violate the law and allow felones and illegal immigrants to vote.
Second, voting should be as transparent and accessible as possible. If it is becoming too expensive to do so, go back to a paper and pencil. It was Al Gore and his outrageous hanging chap lawyers that started all that foolishness in the first place.
To..Relyec""
No it wasn't Gore it was bush ...
Gore wanted to dis-allow military ballots:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1375024/Gore-campaign-trying-to-block-military-votes.html
Gore wanted a selective recount:
http://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/publications/working_papers/1061VeryStreamlinedIntroduction.pdf
And finally, Gore lost ten states that Clinton had won, including Gore's home state.
It was Gore's election to lose, and lose he did.
Just about anything you want to know about ..don't know if they'll let me post this link
Documents Related to the 2000 Election Dispute:
...
No they still won't let me post links...too bad
Amunaka - you must be new to Newsvine?
They have a probationary period called the Greenhouse for new members.
Keep on posting and abiding by the COH and you will be out of there in no time!
PS: They will send you an e-mail congratulating your success!
PPS: Stick around - I like what you have to say! ;o)
PPS: Is this the link you were looking for?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=documents%20related%20to%20the%202000&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.presidency.ucsb.edu%2Fflorida2000.php&ei=HdzoTsrsEObC2wWQ7dTSCA&usg=AFQjCNGDTFpTFvRp5EP21kIYnTSAU-eOEw
To..Feisty ""
Thanks I am a newbie here on Newsvine and I will stick around ...gotta a lot of links lot of info..I'd like to share..
To..Fiesty"""
Ya and thanks ..
Amunaka
If you are not a new user it may be a problem that Newsvine has been having for a long time … where users are reverted back to New User status.
Contact Newsvine "Report Bug" and ask them to restore your status.
To Denis"""
Thanks ..only made a couple of posts on MSNBC before this month..
Could it to be that Holder is trying to deflect public attention from his authorization of the botched Fast & Furious program where he authorized illegal gun sales knowing the weapons would end up in the hands of Mexican criminals? Perplexed
you notice the left wing media isn't giving this much coverage? if it was Bush or
a Republican president they would be screaming every night for impeachment!
they bitched about Bush after we were attacked on 9-11 for making this country
safer but these idiots can give guns to drug dealers who kill an officer!
Holder is a fool. Virtually every decision he's made has been the wrong one.
We need voter ID.
Or, come up with a way to prevent people from multiple votes, stopping people who do not have the right to vote, and preventing identity theft in the voting process.
Please, don't give me the "poor people can't get voter IDs" garbage. It doesn't fly.
What is he afraid of? Thugs not voting twice and having to leave their baseball bats behind?
Impeach NOW!
Funny ... when talking about voter fraud nobody mentions or talks about easily hackable electronic voting and vote counting machines ..who owns them who makes the soft ware who controls them ...or the problems states have had with these machines .. or that they are easy to flip an election with no paper trail..
a black guy voting twice as Mary Poppins flipping an election ..not so much....
Sure. He doesn't think people should be required to prove they are who are are when they vote. He'd be quite happy to have Acorn bus people in to vote on YOUR behalf. Incidentally, isn't Mr. Holder the guy who refuses to prosecute obvious voter intimidation by the New Black Panther party in Philadelphia or am I confusing him with some other black Attorney General who was sworn to uphold and defend the law?
Rick that's exactly what I was going to say! good comment! i'd like to ad he's the one
with OBOMBO who came up with the fast and furious scam to have gun laws changed
but it backfired on them when an officer [who was really an american] lost his life by
one of the guns they put in the hands of drug dealers! both should be in jail! they
have no respect for america or it's laws because they choose which ones to enforce
only when it pushes more of their radical left wing liberal progressive agenda!