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Cliff Owen / AP
Republican presidential candidate, Texas Gov. Rick Perry addresses the 2012 Republican Presidential Candidates Forum hosted by the Republican Jewish Coalition, Wednesday, Dec. 7, 2011, in Washington.
Rick Perry's campaign has pivoted to make a play for Iowa's socially conservative voters in the closing weeks of the primary campaign.
Perry's campaign, in the midst of a $1 million ad buy in the Hawkeye State, has highlighted the Texas governor's evangelical Christian faith in its two most recent ads.
"[Y]ou don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school," Perry said in his new ad, "Strong," released Wednesday. "As President, I'll end Obama's war on religion. And I'll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage."
In his previous ad, "Faith," he said: "Now some liberals say that faith is a sign of weakness. Well, they're wrong."
The spots appear to be part of an emergent strategy by Perry's campaign to focus on bread-and-butter social conservatism in a last-ditch effort to revive his campaign before Iowa's Jan. 3 caucuses, where social issues loom large.
"I think that’s probably the only path he [Perry] has left, to be honest," said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, a caucus veteran who helped her dad, former Arkansas Republican Gov. Mike Huckabee, win Iowa in 2008. "He hasn’t shown he’s been able to speak well and own any other issues."
Steve Scheffler, president of the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition, says the Perry campaign's direct appeal to Christian voters could work but a lot of voters are still undecided.
Perry's strategy extends beyond ads; when the Obama administration announced Tuesday that it would consider a nation's treatment of gays and lesbians in its foreign aid decisions, Perry pounced.
"Promoting special rights for gays in foreign countries is not in America's interests and not worth a dime of taxpayers' money," he said in a statement.
Additionally, Perry announced an endorsement Tuesday from New Hampshire Right to Life, an anti-abortion rights group.
The socially conservative vote in Iowa is fractured among a variety of candidates viewed as acceptable, said said Bob Vander Plaats, the CEO of THE FAMiLY LEADER. His group's board of directors had said last month that Perry, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann and former Sen. Rick Santorum were all eligible for their endorsement, and Vander Plaats said Wednesday that Iowa conservatives are divided between them.
"There's no doubt that he's trying to make a coalescing move by making it a focus of who he is as it relates to his policies. I think when he was the frontrunner ... he tried to make the focus about the economy, Texas, jobs -- and he had a good story to tell," he said of Perry's new effort. "Now he's getting back to square one, which is: Who is Rick Perry?"
But whether a Republican candidate will be able to rally based on social issues may be another story.
A Washington Post/ABC poll released this week found that social issues like abortion and gay marriage is the third-most important issue among likely Republican caucus-goers. Fifteen percent of likely caucus attendees said social issues were their most important ones, compared to 38 percent who named the economy and jobs as the top issue, and 28 percent who identified the federal budget deficit as their top issue.
Rick Perry appeared to be a formidable candidate when he first entered the GOP race. But what happened? How did he fall apart so dramatically in debates? But could Rick rise again in Iowa or South Carolina? Vanity Fair's Bryan Burrough joins the discussion.
Huckabee, a former Baptist minister, won the 2008 caucuses in part due to his ability to appeal to voters on social issues. Sixty percent of Republican caucus-goers identified themselves as evangelical Christians that year -- and Huckabee won the bulk of them.
Those issues "still matter," said said his daughter, but jobs and the economy, along with electability, weigh more heavily on voters in 2012. That's why Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich remain viable in Iowa, she said. But it's also why Perry is airing ads of this type.
"Right now, you’re not going to see Gov. Romney or Speaker Gingrich cut that ad," Huckabee Sanders said. She explained that social conservatives are "a constituency that [Perry] can still try to own and distinguish himself from other top-tier candidates. But being able to speak eloquently on jobs and the economy is important, too.
For Iowa Republicans, a candidates's economic views, 71 to 14 percent, outweighed social views in importance, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll. Fifty-five percent of Hawkeye Republicans said it was somewhat or very important a candidate shares their religious beliefs, while 45 percent it was not very or not at all important.
But there are some signs that the importance of social issues may be eroding. Twenty-two percent of Iowa Republicans said they believed same-sex couples should be allowed to marry, while 36 percent preferred civil unions to recognize same-sex partnerships. Thirty-eight percent said same-sex couples should enjoy no legal recognition.
And an early October CBS poll found that Republicans nationally, 48 percent to 41 percent, favor allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military -- the very issue at which Perry took aim in his new ad.
Vander Plaats said he didn't see any erosion, though, in the importance of those issues.
"I really believe the fiscal conservative, the establishment Republican are beginning to draw the connection where, if you don't have healthy families, you'll never be able to grow the economy and limit government," he said.
And in maybe the best measurement, he said that candidates are still courting his endorsement; he said he hears from the Republican contenders almost daily, having spoken to Rick Santorum this morning, and tentatively Michele Bachmann on Thursday.
THE FAMiLY LEADER's board met Tuesday evening to talk about and endorsement, but couldn't reach consensus at this point. It's possible that they might not endorse, Vander Plaats said.
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Would that be the same house he soaks the TX taxpayers 10K a month for?
What Slick Rick is doing is with the 'religion' card, is reprehensible not to mention dangerous!
We have to hope the conservatives call his bluff! lol
Man, if social conservatives propel Perry to a Republican nomination they will feel like total idjits when they learn who Rick Perry really is.
I guess whoever wins the Republican primary has the one true God support. We will just have to wait and see who God love the most out of this power house Republican field.
Jahmekan - No wonder Republicans don't want Mitt to win, they'd all have to convert to Mormonism.
Actually, the winner of the GOP nomination will have the support of multiple gods...Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton, Franklin, Grant...or at least the winner can thank their portraits.
funny.
Where is my darn lamb's blood? I need to mark my front door so when God is finally p.o'd enough at these right wing religious nuts using Him for votes and He sends down His wrath, he will know to pass by here! (I do have quite a few GOP neighbors, makes 'em mad when I put out the Obamba 2012 sign!)
It's startling that just a couple of years ago I couldn't imagine anyone scarier than Palin in the Oval Office.
Over the past couple of decades we've had numerous dimwits who wanted to be President: Quayle, Shrub (who actually made it into the Oval Office, and look what he did), Palin, Santorum, Bachmann and Perry. Can you think of even one Democrat during those years who was as clueless, as ignorant and as stupid who was running for president?
"there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school," Perry said in his new ad,"
There's something wrong in this country when we spend trillions of dollars fighting radical, extremist terrorists in the middle east, and yet back home right-wingers keep electing radical, extremist reps to office.
BTW, does anyone else see Perry as a closet case? He looks much too metro and overly vehement in his intolerance for gays. Smells like a classic closet case.
@Phinephancy@ Need not worry God already knows who you are, God knows the Haters and non-believers. Wish you could be civil and come up with something intellectualto add. For the record it's 'DAMN" not "DAM" unless you need a barrier to hold back all the lambs blood.
Cygnus, ask nisl about that.
Jack - Isn't that the truth!
I'm shocked Perry has done as poorly as he has. I'm fairly plugged into the political scene in Austin and I thought Perry would be crushed by his numerous personal scandals, not his lack of intellect.
Don't get me wrong, everyone in Austin knows Perry is a dunce. But his brain farts have been beyond what we expected. There is a LOT of speculation that it is due to drugs he takes for back pain. There is nothing wrong with taking drugs due to a back injury, but if that is his problem he should try to be honest about it, no?
"I really believe the fiscal conservative, the establishment Republican are beginning to draw the connection where, if you don't have healthy families, you'll never be able to grow the economy and limit government,"
*scratches head...
so why do they always trot out morally inept faux christians like Newt Gingrich?
Eh, more BS...more excuses to cover their immorality when it comes to "loving thy neighbor as thyself"...even if that neighbor, just so happens to be gay.
Been with my wife for 12 + years and im 32 years old.
I think, that beats any amount of time Gingrich has ever been faithful to one woman.
nisl,
The cynicism of the Republicans never ceases to astonish me. And that attribute is reflected in many of the right wingers who post here.
The drug for his back pain would explain a lot. I've never seen anyone behave so bizarrely as Perry has in some of the videos.
time4truth,
If you go back and read PhinePhancy's post a little more carefully you'll see that she wrote "darn", not "dam".
@time4truth
One, I said DARN, I did not swear. Two, what do you know about my religious beliefs? Bet mine are more honest and straight forward than yours. I freely admit to not being a right wing, evangelical protestant hypocrite. I also freely admit to having strong religious beliefs that I believe should be seperate from the State. You know, that pesky division of Church and State.
Think it was that dude Jesus who talked about praying in private. You RWNJ's should try it.
Between slick Rick and the Jesus wacko's, Mittens and the magic underwear crowd (originally from Palmyra, NY now Salt Lake) and Newt and ... I can't think of a metaphor - he's too pathetic, the President should be making out the guest list for the 2nd Inaugural Ball.
It won't work Rick !
You're succeeding in making yourself less and less electable to most of America.
time 4 truth "God knows the Haters and non-believers"
so, are you saying all I gotta do is not hate god and believe, and VOILA im in?
who knew it was that easy? all these years I thought there were like a bazillion rules I could never live up to...and turns out, all I had to do was love god and believe...nothing more.
Well, GOD...im here to say... I LOVE YOU I LOVE YOU I LOVE!!!
and I believe I can fly, er...I believe in you! you can do it!
or, well I just believe you exist...is that what I need to say?
This is so confusing.
Oh I don't know Jack, nisl.
I recall a certain john Edwards who in December 2007 was in the hunt. In fact he has the support of 15% of the dems.
Clueless, ignorant, stupid? Yeah, given what we know now, I'd say he fits the bill.
As for the other you mention Jack - that's why we play the game. In fact Edwards, like Bachmann, Perry, and others willbe, was eventually shown the exit.
nisl - we done yet or shall we continue? Fact is he's done testifying and didn't take the 5th. Just went with the 'i don't remember/I have no idea' which ought to make all those people out all that cash feel even better.
Poor Governor Goodhair ... he's just not gettin' that good old-timey "christian" love ... he's just whorin' hisself out there and he's still not gettin' it!
No one speaks for God.
Only God speaks for God.
Would that be the same house he soaks the TX taxpayers 10K a month for?
It probably is Feisty, and this dimwit has been soaking the taxpayers for over 4 years.....I'm sure the money is going into the pockets of someone in his inner circle.
How long should it take to repair the Governors Mansion after it was torched?
@Eric.....
......Birds of the feather?
Cygnus - the biggest homophobes usually are! ;o)
They try waaay to hard to prove their masculinity!
@Eric
Hallelujah. Finally someone realizes that. Maybe you should share that wisdom with the GOP candidates?
"Over the past couple of decades we've had numerous dimwits who wanted to be President: Quayle, Shrub (who actually made it into the Oval Office, and look what he did), Palin, Santorum, Bachmann and Perry. Can you think of even one Democrat during those years who was as clueless, as ignorant and as stupid who was running for president?"
Seriously you want a list?
Kucinich, Mosley-Braun Gephardt, Biden and he is vice president the current president has been very clueless lately and any other idiot lawyer wanting to be president like Edwards. Shouldn't throw stones when you live in a liberal glass house.
So Spanky, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet?
Also too, Enron went bankrupt in December of 2001, how long was it until Ken Lay turned himself over to authorities? How many days did Ken Lay eventually end up spending in jail?
I'm going to give you a hint even a non-lawyer like you should be able to grasp: Making a case against a billionaire is not easy. They have unlimited resources and prosecutors have to watch their every move more that they otherwise might.
So, Spanky, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet? Come on, think little buddy, you can do it!
Bad bet, Gov.!
A bible in one hand a gun the the other hand and a hand in your pocket ..thats the real perry .. its not that he has any of the values taught by christ ..love thy neighbor .. honor thy father and mother .. help the least among us .. heal the sick .. protect women and children ..things like that .. his religious views are more like intolerance of thy neighbor .. have mom and dad work till they die no ss or medicare ..cut all relief programs .. buy your own insurance or die .. defund programs like planned parenthood .. and wic.. he should get all the right wing christian votes
how do we preach against religious extremism and intolerance all over the world and then have these dopes running for president trying to shove it down our throats in the United States. A right wing nut job is the same everywhere.
If the social conservatives dumped Bachman, why would they support Ricky Bobby uh Perry? I can't imagine anyone being so full of them self to pull the sh!t this guy spews forth. It's a veritable fountain of sewage!
Perry has scrambled eggs for brains.
In order to act competently a lawyer must pursue his or her duties diligently. An attorney�s duty to clients encompasses both knowledge of the law and an obligation of diligent research and informed judgment. See Wright v. Williams (2nd Dist. 1975) 47 Cal.App.3d 802, 121 Cal.Rptr. 194. The degree of care expected in discharging his or her duties diligently is that of any lawyer of ordinary skill and capacity in performance of a similar task. See Goebel v. Lauderdale (6th Dist. 1989) 214 Cal.App.3d 1502, 263 Cal.Rptr. 275. By accepting employment to render legal services, an attorney impliedly agrees to use such skill, prudence, and diligence as lawyers of ordinary skill commonly possess and exercise. See Lucas v. Hamm (1961) 56 Cal.2d 583, 15 Cal.Rptr. 821, 364 P.2d 685, Kirsch v. Duryea (1978) 21 Cal.3d 303, 146 Cal.Rptr. 218, 578 P.2d 935; Heyer v. Flaig (1969) 70 Cal.2d 223, 74 Cal.Rptr. 225, 449 P.2d 161; see also Goebel v. Lauderdale (6th Dist. 1989) 214 Cal.App.3d 1502, 263 Cal.Rptr. 275 (a lawyer has an obligation to represent his client with such skill, prudence and diligence as lawyers of ordinary skill and capacity commonly possessed and performed in the tasks undertaken);
An attorney must undertake to act on behalf of the beneficiary, giving priority to the best interest of the beneficiary. See T&R Foods Inc. v. Rose (Cal.Super. 1996) 47 Cal.App.4th Supp. 1, 56 Cal.Rptr.2d 41; MR 1.2. Competent representation of one�s client is part of the attorney�s ethical responsibility and duty. See In re Wilde Horse Enterprises, Inc. (Bankr. C.D. Cal. 1991) 136 B.R. 830. Failure to act competently, such as failure to use reasonable diligence, is a breach of the attorney�s fiduciary duty to the client. See In re Wilde Horse Enterprises, Inc. (Bankr. C.D. Cal. 1991) 136 B.R. 830.
PJ says, "why would they support Ricky Bobby uh Perry?"
Now that is funny!
"Rick Perry's campaign has pivoted to make a play for Iowa's socially conservative voters in the closing weeks of the primary campaign."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/ia/iowa_republican_presidential_primary-1588.html
Perry is holding a miserably losing hand and he is pushing in all his chips? He doesn't play poker at all well, does he?
Funny, I must be having a memory lapse. I don't recall Sarah Palin running for President in 2008.
Celebrating Christmas is now our religious heritage? That's funny. According to actual history, the founding fathers worked on Christmas day, every year. They did not celebrate it, they worked. On top of that, original pilgrim settlers actually made it illegal to celebrate the pagan holiday of Christmas (tree and all), and placed a 5 shillings fine on anyone caught with these pagan symbols.
Oh that's right, we are not supposed to learn about actual history, just the made-up version.
If Rick, and the rest of the Republicans, would like to go back to the intentions of the "founding fathers", does that mean they will work on Christmas day? It only makes sense, seeing as how they place so much importance on them.
She created "Sarah PAC" . . . which means she intentionally planned on screwing Republicans out of their money, or she honestly planned on running and changed her mind.
So which is it? A change of mind, or intentionally deceiving you to steal your hard-earned money?
IndieParty - shhhh, you're going to scare the wingnuts!
Rick Perry would have you believe that his "faith" is in God, and I am sure that he believes it himself. Actually, his belief is in his parents and other adults who told him what to believe when he was a child, "faith" that has been reinforced by his selection of associates, including some pastors who are very far out on the fringe, even for evangelical Christians. Many of his beliefs are in direct contradiction to proven science. When does faith end and willful ignorance begin? Many people who accept Christianity and other religions are able to do so in an intelligent and reasonable manner. Rick Perry is not one of those people.
Enough with the "special rights for gays", whether in foreign countries or in this country. Gays want, deserve, and are Constitutionally guaranteed REGULAR RIGHTS. Nothing special. They just want the same rights as the rest of us.
When will conservative Americans understand that freedoms are sometimes inconvenient. Your right to freedom of speech means that some people with whom you disagree also have the same freedom ..... even if they are the KKK ....... even if they are the Westboro Baptist Church. Your right to freedom of religion means that some people with whom you do not share religious ideas also have freedom of religion ...... even if they are Jewish ...... even if they are Muslim ....... even if they do not want to tell you about their religious beliefs.
It's very simple nisl - Corzine is not in jail cause he's Obama's man on Wall Street. Plus Holder is kinda busy today.
It's good to have powerful friends, right nisl?
Or are you saying the DOJ is afraid of some high powered lawyers?
Think of all those SEC and Finra regs he blew through. Yeah, a few good lawyers and this whole missing $1.6 billion should be no biggie.
Right nisl? After all he is a Democrat.
So Spanky, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet?
Also too, Enron went bankrupt in December of 2001, how long was it until Ken Lay turned himself over to authorities? How many days did Ken Lay eventually end up spending in jail?
I'm going to give you a hint even a non-lawyer like you should be able to grasp: Making a case against a billionaire is not easy. They have unlimited resources and prosecutors have to watch their every move more that they otherwise might.
So, Spanky, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet? Come on, think little buddy, you can do it!
I for my part am glad to see Perry going to the three "G's". It indicates that his campaign knows no other way to go. By doing this Perry is trying to return to familiar waters where he knows he does not have to demonstrate any brains, substance, acumen or technical mastery.
All he has to do is emote,.....and make it look sincere.
If he continues to push this strategy till Nov 2012 he will be annihilated.
People starving to death in the winter months won't give a tinker's cuss if their kid is forced to pray in school. Imagine,....you have no job, no money, no food, no money for heating, no shoes for the kids, and no coats. You have to swallow your pride to go to a donation center to accept public assistance from a church or the Salvation Army. You have to walk there because you have no car and no bus fare. You don't know if you'll survive the winter, and you are scared to death that one of your kids'll get sick.
Meanwhile, on the television you have some a**hole with a great smile in a $5,000 suit telling you his concern as president will be to make sure your Johnny gets forced to pray in school.
That'll go over great. You'll think about this with every step toward the donation center.
In this election: IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID!!!
But if you feel compelled with an uncontrollable urge to trot out abortion, gays, religion and guns to angry, infuriated starving people whose job was just sent to India by Republican policies............please be my guest.
I invite you. In fact, ......I'll drive you to the Crazy Train station and buy you a ticket.
nisl,
You are just too good. :o)
Come on folks.. I am the opposite of a Rick Perry fan, but speculating that he is gay because you don't like him is kinda low. Just like the W, I'm taking him at face value on his Dobson-esque "family values". Which is legitimately scary.
GOPisextinct - I'm not the only one that is tired of moron wingnuts like Spanky asking ridiculously stupid things over and over and over again? That's good to know.
I know I'll never be able to out stupid Spanky, but I can be just as persistent and demand he answer his own idiotic question.
Semaphore - The rumors regarding Perry's wide-stance are not new. They've been floating around for years. In the last election Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Perry's Republican Primary opponent) alluded to it.
It has nothing to do with not liking Perry.
FIESTY!!!
Social conservatives in Rick Perry talk actually means, "people to dumb to understand who and what he is!!" We have to many and it is not exclusive to Texas.....!!!!!
There are many of us that consider ourselves "conservative" that wonder what planet he is from!!!
Ah yes, the all-powerful, satan-loving, socialist terrorist organization known as "some liberals." Way to tackle the tough issues there, Rick. I'm sorry, but how can anyone take this shampoo-commercial-in-a-suit seriously??
Perry will need a miracle from God to win the republican nomination.
That is only because poor Perry can not complete a FULL sentence about any other serious topic.
He has just so much capacity to talk about something, and he is a good bible thumper. In other words: he is desperate.
In other words: he is desperate.
Nail on the head. If Rick Perry was on life support, Jack Kevorkian is paying him a visit soon.
The more Perry runs his ridiculous ad's here in Iowa, the more he falls in the polls...even the Evangelicals can smell a fake! And so stupid.....You should see the ad he was running, where he would "desolve Congress, send them home and cut their pay in half if they don't pass a balanced budget!" Other then being totally, completely UnConstitutional.....I see nothing wrong with that! THis is coming from a "liberal to thinks faith is a sign of weakness", I don't know about that, but I can certainly smell desperation when a Texas Governor has to wrap himself in the flat and come at you with a cross!
nisl -- if someone whispered "Perry's gay" during a heated Texas election, there must be something to it. I'll remain not a fan. It would only be repeated for one of several reasons that I can determine, and if being used to demonstrate hypocrisy it's not really useful until shown to be fact. Plenty of other fact-based space there. The other reasons are fairly reprehensible.
I kind of feel sorry for Spanky. His attempts at being clever are embarrassing. Cut him some slack, nisl. Poor fella.
No man should bet while drunk!!!!!!
Semaphore - I'm just saying it goes way beyond whispers. Google Rick Perry and a drop down list appears, what is the second option?
Kat - He is an idiot, but I'll leave him alone for now.
Sickening these republicans. Wouldnt know honor if staring them straight in the face. The entire republican party is phony top to bottom. Completely pityful we are haveing to deal with this nonsense.
Okay, you guys have GOT to read this. I'm absolutely stunned, that people buy into this:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/08/rick-perry-president-obama-and-war-on-christianity/
TXHorseman, you sound like a reasonable conservative, of which there are many. Can you explain to me the one thing that is beyond my grasp. How did your side come up with this group running for President? The job can't be that bad.
Alright nisl, I'll leave it alone... after this I guess: google "Rick Santorum" (click at your peril) or most any other male candidate and you will see the "X Y gay" suffix in the top suggestions. Hell, same goes for Michelle Bachmann although I'm pretty sure that's about her husband. It's lame that that's an easy way to torpedo a candidate (or their spouse). Strikes me as a Rovian tactic, which I detest as the antithesis of honest debate.
Like the points made in this column, had to find my argument niche or it's no fun.
No man should bet while drunk!!!!!!
I thought good evangelical Christians were not supposed to drink or gamble!
I am Catholic so we are allowed to drink and gamble, just as long as it is confined to the church basement, or the Parish picnic.
Perry's just dead wrong on at least of a couple of things in these ads. Obama certainly is not running a war on religion. And liberals have never said that faith is a weakness, rather they have said it is a personal matter and the separation of chrch and state is one of the great strengths of our nation.
How's that saying go...Doth protest too much or something like that. Perry's so deep in the closet he's finding Christmas presents.
He is so stupid he could wrap his own Christmas presents.
One has to wonder why a state with over 80% of its population making less than $100k would actually elect Rick Perry not once but twice as governor. As well as actually electing him for every other office he ever sought without defeat. He may not debate well, but he sure can be a good governor.
Generally, people who call other people stupid are trying to make themselves feel better since they have an extreme lack of intelligence and lack of a moral compass.
And by that same logic Ben, then would you say everybody in Washington who wins their elections is good at their job because they were elected, many more than once. Will you say Obama sure can be a good president, after his re-election!
Take it from Ben, for a good president re-elect Obama 2012
Ben
Where do you get your (mis)information? Texas leads the nation in the highest percentage of minimum wage jobs. Every comment you make based on your false information is discounted by rational readers.
Mr Steady
You ridiculed a poster for saying a few years ago he could not imagine a scarier thought than Palin in the Oval Office. You ridiculed him by saying she was not running for President.
Let me explain this to you like a 6 year old:
McCain is older, (and even if he was not) if he became incapacitated or died in office...then the VP becomes the president. It is called Succession, it has happened a number of times. Ever hear of the VP being described as a "heartbeat from the presidency"? Just ask Ford, Lyndon Johnson, Truman, Tyler ANdrew Johnson, Fillmore, Arthur and Teddy Roosevelt...(Yea I know they are dead now, but you get the point? Or do you need that explained to you too?
Forrest -- Well there has to be a reason why the residents continue to vote him in. He's been a Democrat. He's been a Republican.
Don -- Where is my statement that 80% make less than 100K have any correlation to your ignorant retort? Besides, you throw out a statement without backing it up while chastising me????? Blow it out your pie-hole. Besides, I believe there are millions out of work today that would gladly accept minimum wage jobs. Why would you belittle those jobs and those who work them? 'Cause that's what you did.
Cygnus_X-1
"there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school," Perry said in his new ad,"
There's something wrong in this country when we spend trillions of dollars fighting radical, extremist terrorists in the middle east, and yet back home right-wingers keep electing radical, extremist reps to office.
BTW, does anyone else see Perry as a closet case? He looks much too metro and overly vehement in his intolerance for gays. Smells like a classic closet case.
Cygnus_X-1
Plus he has really gay hair.
Ben I think many of these people are simply good at being politicians, and not necessarily good at governing, or legislating good policy. Even the fact that he switched parties suggests it is all about winning elections in Texas and being more of a successful politician than a concern for good governing and adherence to a set of principles or ideas. The whole game for many of them is simply to continually concentrate on their re-election and not about the public service they were elected to perform.
johndevine,
So if you have good hair, that makes you a closet homo? Are all women with short hair also butch? Gee, do all blacks look the same to you. So honestly, which side demonstrates real bigotry?
BTW, please cite a single 'action' where Perry has been intolerant. That would be much different than his acknowledgement that their perverted sexual behavior is morally abhorrent to Christians.
Speaking of "radicals," the correct term would be 'Islamic' Extremists. And here at home we have a radical leftist in the WH.
Brilliant! Offend 60% to appeal to maybe 30% (with 10% not paying attention).
Oh Joe, you get your panties in a wad about Perry's Brokeback Mountain jacket, then make Islamic extremist references to the White House? LMAO.
Forrest Grump 2.0
Perry is a joke as a man and a christian, anyone with a brain and the ability to think knew that a long time ago.
Of much more interest though.... Vander Platts leaving Ron Paul out of the mix.
I thought Vander Platts believed in Faith in God? Then why is he cutting out the only candidate that has real verifiable faith in something other than campaign money?
Ron Paul took the Thanksgiving Family Values Debate hands down, cleaned everyone else's clock?
So much for him being an honest christian, just another political shill.
I wish the Social Conservatives would chime in on old Newt. To me, it seems like the whole Conservative base has become the party of "I don't care" as long as O goes..... lol
True,
No wad at all. Just pointing out the truth. It's so ironic that the one's often crying foul are the real perps.
I didn't say-or even imply-that Obama is an Islamic Extremist. He's not. But he's absolutely a radical leftist just as much as I'm a radical conservative. If that makes you laugh, so be it.
And your 60/30/10 analysis is off point. First, it won't offend 60%. Second, even if it would, he'd take the 30% to improve his present weak standing. Third, the 10% is of no consequence since they aren't a factor anyway.
Newsflash: the solid majority of Iowa Republicans are conservative and Christian. As such they believe homosexual behavior to be an abomination. So why shouldn't he court their vote?
I'm not sold on Perry. But he, or any of the Republicans, would be far preferable to any more of Obama.
Newt,
Many of us already have. Yes, charactor does matter. The base is split amongst the various conservative candidates (Gingrich, Paul, Bachman). That's why more moderate Romney can't get out of the 20s.
If you listen to the right people (Paul and Glenn Beck specifically) you'll here plenty of Newt bashing.
While you're watching this GOP circus, be aware of the sideshow going on sponsored by the Koch bros. that is trying to take over your state. It happened in Wisconsin and Ohio. Look at the political condition we're in nationally, because of state control, which obstructs and stymies any causes other than their own. Our economy is at a standstill with a target on it as a result. We're just one extreme move from chaos. Resolve now to put some of your posting efforts into grassroots efforts to take back your states. Ohio and Mississippi recently stood up for themselves. And Wisconsin is pushing hard to recall their Koch bro clone of a governor. Take back your states and give support to WI as they RECALL Gov. Scott WALKER!!!!!!!
Because this is a secular nation. We have a constitution, and it was created by people firmly against this kind of combination of church and state.
@Egilman
Ron Paul is slowly but steadily gaining on them, he has had solid performances throughout, no major gaffes or flip flops. His ideas are different and now they don't include him in some venues, because it seems they are not willing to debate his ideas with him, they just want the other candidates parroting the same themes constantly. It seems they went from ignoring Paul, to running scared from him, he has a big enough following, much bigger than Bachmann, Huntsmann, or Santorum, that he will have to be reckoned with sooner or later whether they want to or not.
Social Conservatives are, quite simply, people who are too afraid to deal with reality and too insecure to face the fact that their lives are mostly inconsequential. So they pick and choose from the Bible certain parts to follow and then pick and choose when to apply those verses. In, what is truly a hypocritical and ignorant attempt to feel special (i.e. the moral high ground) and safe (i.e. God's got my back). My favorite is when they call gay people abominations (from Leviticus) then, when trying to deny similarities between themselves and Muslims say the Old Testement is no longer applicable. Huh???
Than, when they come under fire, they look to leaders who are educated and articulate enough to present these illogical arguments in a faux intelligent manner, thereby reenforcing their ridiculous beliefs. What Social Conservatives don't see though, is that these "leaders" aren't as ignorant as you, they're just using your ignorance and playing upon your insecurities in order to get elected. Then they convince you all, that everything else you hear is "bias" or "lies". Sorry folks, just because something doesn't gel with your defense mechanisms (i.e. the disgusting misinterpretation of Christianity that you use to combat your insecurities) that doesn't mean it's a lie or even bias.
Finally, they run around screaming about how their rights are infringed upon and the freedoms taken away by the "gay agenda" or "sharia law" or "illegals" or "baby killing abortionists". Why??? Because to accept the idea that freedom is a two sided coin (freedom from and freedom too) would be to delegitimize their belief that they've got it all right. Their whole house of cards would collapse. If we also have the freedom of choice, that would than be "God Given" and contradict that they're anti-choice message is special. Ruh roh, Raggy!
So pander away, Perry. Somebody needs to feed their little egos.
Good shootin', Sarah! I think you may have winged ol' Rick "Goodhair" Perry!
That was for Coyotes everywhere, Sailcat! Thanks!
Anon,
Good to hear from you again after my 'vacation.' No doubt we disagree about the Church/State thing.
So in the interest of open debate, please tell me why you believe CHRISTmas is a National Holiday. Especially since it is-and is the only one-directly tied to religion; and at that a specific Faith nonetheless.
Sarah,
We don't call gay people abominations. We hold that behavior to be so. Whether you buy it or not, 'love the sinner but hate the sin' is a reasoned stance. There are ways The Old Testament is trumped by Jesus Christ and The New Testament. Homosexual behavior isn't one of them. It is filthy. It is perverted. It is ungodly. That doesn't necessarily make gays bad people. It does make them sinners just like all of us heteros, many if not most of whom suffer from our own sexual perversions. The point is that acknowledgement of right and wrong, good and evil, truth and lie is critical. Homosexual 'behavior' is just wrong.
I've worked with a number of openly gay men and women during my time in Education and Social Services. They were all good at their jobs and for the most part nice people. I never pried into their private lives or tried to beat them over the head with The Bible. But I also never deceived them about my position. We'll all face Eternal Judgement. In the meantime Christ has ordained us to loose or hold bound here exactly as it is and shall be there. Something for all of us sinners to always remember.
Joe,
The fact that you've worked in education and social services is TERRIFYING. Call your hateful rhetoric anything you want, but the rest of the world knows exactly what it is. Justify your bigotry, we see through it. Claim that you "don't judge" the sinner if it makes you feel better, because quite clearly you do and we all know it.
The only thing filthy and perveted are the words you post. And if you're looking to justify your position, I suggest you attempt to do so with someone who doesn't see through you and your ilk quite so easily.
If there is eternal judgment, when God gets a look at what you just posted, in his name no less, he will smack you upside the head for your disgusting and inexcusable hate. And than, I hope he sends you right back to earth as a gay person, so you can feel the effect of your own bigotry.
Until than keep your grotesque misconceptions about Christ, religion, God, morals, and freedom out of my laws, and in your church. You're perfectly free to go there and practice whatever bigotted dogma you would choose.
I've never read anything less "Christ-like".
Joe -- President Obama is not a radical leftist, especially his tough foreign policy positions, but also he was never for a mandate (remember the debates with Hillary?), he has deported more illegals than Bush did, and on and on. You only believe this lie because the right-wing has moved so far to the Right. This is what the political ideology spectrum looks like for conservatives now:
Far Left = Democrats. Democrat/liberal now means communist, Marxist, possibly Muslim, certainly the anti-Christ secularists who want (heaven forbid) Separation of Church and State and civil/individual liberties protected.
Left = Moderate/establishment Republicans, which would now include Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Sr., along with anyone who is not a fundamentalist like Guiliani or who is not an Evangelical like Romney.
Center = Neocon Hawks, NRA members, Libertarian "starve the beast" Ron Paul faction, etc. who are not obsessed with abortion. This includes Atilla the Hun.
Right = All God-fearing folk who would repeal all progressive elements in our nation, and impose a fascist pro-military, corporatist theocracy.
Far Right = There is no such thing. For conservatives, extremism only exists to the left of their own position.
You may think I'm exaggerating, but here's an example of a conversation with a conservative. I said I'd watch FOX Noise for a week if he'd watch MSNBC. He freaked out saying CNN was to the far-left, but MSNBC was off the chart. CNN is mainstream and FOX Noise/Hate Radio are off the charts, even just in terms of lacking any journalistic standards.
It was proved during Bush that FOX received talking points from the White House (i.e. state news). Since then FOX has openly hired Republicans, contributed to Republican campaigns, help sponsor Tea Party protests, etc. They never if rarely retract incorrect statements, and start their "reports" with "Some people say..." Fox has had to remove their earlier tag line of "Fair and Balanced" and a recent study shows that FOX viewers are less informed than people who don't watch news at all.
We need to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. Then maybe folks like you would know better.
Joe-738652
Christ ordained us to one thing, Love everyone as we love ourselves, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, take the log out of your own eye before you take the thistle out of your brothers. JUDGE NOT, because you will be judged,
Judge not because you WILL be judged by those same judgments when you arrive at the gates.
When he died on the Cross, he took all our sins with him, past, present and future. Hate is an abomination of god, it is sin. when confronted with it, Jesus instructs us to confront it, with his words, if those words are not heard, then shake the dust from your feet lest you be stained with it.
The temple shroud was rent in half, showing the world, all of us sinners, that the law is for ALL men not just the self righteous amongst us. and then he destroyed the law, leaving us with one commandment, The golden rule.
I will now shake the dust of your lack of knowledge of gods love, and leave you behind, leaving you with one thought.
Can you afford to have god shake the dust from his feet? Ask him for his words and the ability to understand them, it is his promise, if you ask, you SHALL receive, if you KNOCK, it will be opened unto you.
My prayers are with you in your hours of need brother, go with god....
TruePatriot-445959
Well that was a nice reasonable rant, Pot calling the kettle black I see?
And who is to decide what is "Fair", you? seeing that the last part of your line above shows that you have already made a judgement that any position that doesn't agree with yours is unfair.
True,
Obama is a radical leftist. His $4.5 TRILLION of new debt in less then three years has all been predicated on moving us more toward Statism.
The only "tough" FP he has is continuing the Bush War against Islamic Extremists.
Not surprised you whine about 'fairness.' That's a typical cop out when you continue to get your arse kicked in the open marketplace of competing ideas.
Egilman,
Yes, Christ gave us that New Commandment. But as Sarah correctly stated, "love is a verb." I always tell people "love is an 'action verb.'"
Well, love takes many forms. Parental correction is love. Appropriate judicial punishment is love. 'Tough love' is love. It's not all sunshine and roses.
And Jesus did ordain Peter to act in his stead. All those who have succeeded Peter share that responsibility. Do not misinterpret 'Judge not.' As I said previously, we will all be judged. We who accept and live by that have the right to state what is true because we are not being hypocrites holding others to standards to which we don't aspire.
I'm a sinner. I freely admit it. But I don't try to legitimize my sins in the false guise of 'tolerance.' Beastiality is wrong, adultery is wrong, homosexuality is wrong. They are all sinful sexual acts. Capitulating to by distorting the true meaning of love is not a good thing.
Thanks for your prayers. I need them. And I pray for you and all others as well.
Joe...
I'll break my own rule and respond to this,
did he say, "Let you who is without sin cast the first stone?"
God, when he created us, gave us a wonderful gift, Fingers!
Yep, Fingers, they always seem to manage to point three of them at ourselves when we point one at someone else. (a very easy way to remind ourselves of his teachings)
No matter how fervently Peter felt that he was carrying Jesus's message, he never had anyone bend their knee to kiss his ring. (neither did Jesus) There is no one "Ordained" to tell me what god has for me, that is between me and my god. Would be a good lesson to learn, cause that is what peter preached.
Egilman,
I don't know what rule you have, but I'll gladly reply. I'm not casting any stone. I'm not using slurs. I'm not calling for outings or violence. I'm just telling it like it is. The only Godly sexual intercourse is between a husband and wife. All other sexual behaviors, be they hetero or homo, are illicit. To anyone who can't handle that I say tough apples.
Christ designated Peter as the head of his Church here on Earth. Read the Gospel of Matthew. Apostolic Descention is a fact whether you accept it or not. There are those Ordained to be Vicars of Christ.
And yes, ultimately God will judge you and your Eternal Salvation or Damnation. But that will be after you die. Until then he will withhold judgement. But the Holy Spirit shall continue to reveal his Truth to us, and give the Ordained power to forgive your sins or hold them bound.
I'm afraid, Joe, that Christmas, despite its name, is for many is not a Christian holiday. Many atheists, including myself support it. The vast majority of its traditions, including Santa Claus, are secular. Even on top of this though, the vast majority of cultures in the world have holidays around that time, so it makes logical sense for a national holiday to occur around there. It has nothing to do with religion, and hardly anyone objects to it because its helpful outside of its religious contexts.
Sarah,
You should be terrified of your hideous misrepresentations of everything I've posted here.
Please tell me what is "hateful" about condemning grossly inappropriate behavior. Note I have covered heterosexual transgressions as well as homosexuality.
Please show a single act of bigotry I have ever committed. Please bring forth one gay person (not an illicit behavior) whom I have ever judged in print, by word of mouth, or personal deed. You can't because I haven't. Find a single gay person who can testify that I've ever performed a solitary homophobic act. Again, you can't because I never have.
If you misperceive what I posted as filth and perversion then you are the one sorely in need of changing, not I. Darn good of you-while you lash out at me-to know what God will do. How righteous Sarah.
And you need not worry about my practice. God is all around you in our national being...
the Laws of Nature and Nature's 'God': Declaration of Independence
they are endowed by their 'Creator' with certain unalienable Rights: Declaration of Independence
with a firm reliance on 'Divine Providence': Declaraion of Independence
our lives, our fortunes, our 'sacred' Honor: Declaration of Independence
secure the 'Blessings' of Liberty: Constitution
IN 'GOD' WE TRUST: every bill and coin
One Nation, under 'God': Pledge of Alligiance
and lest you doubt what all these refer to I close with this from the Articles of Confederation:
"DONE at Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania, the 9th day of July,
(here comes the good part Sarah, don't let it escape your mental grasp)
in the Year of our 'Lord' 1778, and in the third year of the independence of America."
As President Reagan would say: "good night, God Bless you, and God Bless the United States of America!"
e
Anon,
No matter what secular spin offs abound, Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ Jesus.
We don't designate national holidays on the basis of what any other nations do.
I don't care if anyone accepts or rejects it. It is what it is. The Pilgrims didn't have turkey, parades, and football when most of them were starving to death and still gave 'Thanksgiving' to GOD. And without CHRIST, there is no CHRISTmas.
Merry Christmas! if you prefer, Happy Holidays!
Please read my post.
Irrelevent. That was before the United States was made and that holiday was created by an atheist president (Abraham Lincoln).
And to you too. As I said, I celebrate Christmas too. Not for its religious connotations, but its cultural importance. A cultural seasonal importance that originates far, far before Christianity.
This nation was created by deists. Not Christians. The man who wrote the Declaration of Independence was also the man who came up with the actual phrase "Separation of Church and State". One of our earliest official documents, the Treaty of Tripoli, states outright "The United States is not a Christian nation". The US has been accepting towards Muslims, Jews, and atheists since it was created. I don't care whether you are Christian (though I'd be happy to defend my beliefs in a debate elsewhere), but I do care that you wish to impose your religion on the rest of the nation. Thomas Jefferson himself said "Religion is a private matter between a man and his God". I hope you realize what that means.
From what I have seen, you also appear to be against gays. Please give a rational, non-religious, objective reason as to why gays should not be allowed to openly serve in the military. Keep in mind that what you write must be more convincing than the fact that the vast majority of soldiers are fine with the repeal of DADT, and the fact that the Pentagon has thoroughly reviewed this matter.
Anon,
I did read your post. I don't know what we're not connecting on, but who cares.
It's not irrelevant. You cited the things about 'Christmas' which aren't really about CHRISTmas. I cited the things about Thanksgiving (which to the Pilgrims was giving thanks to God, specifically the Christian God) which aren't directly relative to that 'Feast.' So despite those 'things,' the original intent and meaning of Christmas will never change.
I am well aware of the Deism of the Founders. You might take a gander at what I posted to Sarah above regarding "the Year of our 'Lord.'" That 'Lord' wasn't Allah, or Buddah, or any other 'deity' other than Jesus Christ, the Son of God. When it is said we are not a Christian nation, it is meant in terms of State Sponsored exclussivity. For we were certainly formed by, have been, and have continued to be a nation of Christian people. Jefferson's 'wall' was to keep State out of Church, not Church (people) out of State.
You have seen incorrectly. I give you the same challenge posed to Sarah because I have never taken a single ill action toward a single human being because they professed to be, or I believed them to be gay.
I have not been in the military, nor have I said gays should not be able to serve in the military because of that lack of experience. What I will say to you is that the overwhelming number of vets I directly know (paternal uncle/WWII in the Pacific, father/Phillipines, second paternal uncle/Vietnam, brother/Germany, good friend/Korea, maternal niece and nephew by marriage/Stateside, another maternal nephew/Iraq & Afghanistan to date, son-in-law/Germany & Turkey to date, and his father/GWI) all say the same thing about gays in the military. 'It's bad for morale.' Take that for what it's worth
As for DADT, that stupid arse policy is forever enshrined as the first major undertaking of President Clinton, sexual scumbag extraordinaire. Enough said.
Night.
I cited things about Christmas that are part of modern celebrations. The holiday's name may have Christian origins, but it is simply incorrect to call it a purely Christian holiday. As for Thanksgiving, it is irrelevent that the original Thanksgiving by the pilgrims was means as a religious festivity, because Abraham Lincoln obviously didn't create the holiday with that intent (he was an agnostic).
Citing semantics from the articles of confederation is irrelevent. The Constitution is the law of the land, and it says the government will not establish a religion. We may be comprised mostly of Christians, but that does not make us a Christian nation. Also, you are simply incorrect about Jefferson's intentions. This is what he said, in context.
Also, you apparently have not looked up the Treaty of Tripoli. Please do so.
I never accused you of being so. However, this article that we are commenting on is about Perry's objection to homosexuality being soley based on religion.
Your personal experience with your family does not trump my modern statistics. I'd also like to inform you that people used the exact same argument against blacks in the military. Take that for what it's worth.
Poor policy, yes, and I do criticize Clinton for doing this. Still, it was a step forward for its time.
Funny how the man leading the impeachment trial sent his divorce letter to his dying wife at around the same time.
Though it's not that late for me, good night to you too. Hopefully tomorrow we will be able to continue this. I must say, though I disagree with you strongly, you are more civil than most people here. We may agree on nothing, but I still respect you over most others on this site (liberal and conservative alike).
Anon,
Agreed, Christmas has become more then just CHRISTmas. And Lincoln absolutely 'nationalized' Thanksgiving to GOD as a Holiday (at the behest of Christians btw). After citing many things the nation had to be thankful for, in context from his Proclaimation:
"No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God,..."
He didn't cite any particular religion; but he definitely took the annual traditition dating all the way back to the Pilgrims and nationalized it. More:
"...as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens."
Clearly Lincoln believed in America's Divine Providence.
I know exactly what Jefferson wrote (albeit merely a personal letter, not anything official). And his sentiments support my argument. The wall is to keep State from telling us how to worship. It makes no case against those who have their own beliefs being able to act upon such as providing they take no liberty from others. So if I propose Catholicism should be the State Religion, that's unconstitutional. But if I avow abortion is murder and should be outlawed, that's Constitutional.
And the lines I cited were exact, not semantics. Why, do you know to this day Congress opens each sesion with a Prayer and that we maintain a National Cathedral in DC. Is that against Jefferson's 'separation,' which as you know is nowhere in the Constitution.
Anon, #1.98, "From what I have seen, you also appear to be against gays."
And then following my reply to that misperception:
Anon, "I never accused you of being so."
Can't have it both ways Anon.
As for gays in the military, you asked for reason, I gave you Reason. And although blacks were discriminated against in the military, their struggles and the gay argument are not parallel. Being black is an unchangable trait. Being/'acting' gay (no matter how urgent one's 'tendencies) is a choice. Talk to any black person who has faced racial discrimination and they'll help you understand the difference.
DADT a "step forward." Could be perceived as such. I prefer straight up or down (no pun intended) either let them serve or don't, without the ambiguity of DADT. And yes, Clinton had plenty of scumbag company.
Work to do. Gotta go.
Hey Joe - stop your anti-Christianity rants - Please - very offensive
I have no idea what bigoted hateful ideology you're a part of it is of no relation to any true sense of the words of Jesus my guide through this life. I, to be polite, consider you an abomination and an "anti-Christ" yes evil disguised as a Christian. That is how you come across to me and lastly your proselytizing convoluted with miss-information is.....well in human terms disgusting....I would never want to see you or meet you as sir you are no Christian. I leave it at that after all today is Sunday a day of reverence for me but I just had to respond to the dribble you espouse and not to mention the aforesaid anti-Christ rhetoric. Re-read the words of Jesus Christ about salvation from the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
God may forgive you is your only hope for I do not!!!!!!!!!!!
Persevere,
You are much better a spewing venom then accepting the truth. Well, that's gotta count for something amongst those such as yourself. You display a clear lack of understanding of Christianity. But that's okay, God still loves you and so do I. Would you, a professed Christian, say the same to me? I don't need any forgiveness from you, nor have I done anything to even ask for such. But you might want to brush up yourself...on the fact that Jesus COMMANDS us to forgive! How dare you avow to break one of his commandments to us on His Day!
Tsk, tsk, tsk, judging me to be "anti-Christ." Who gave you the right? LOL
Persevere, I don't want in on this debate, but wanted to point out it is still only Saturday, for most of the Western hemisphere at least. Hope you didn't show up at an empty worship service and curse out your fellow Christians for their lack of reverence...
It is, however, Shomer Shabbas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmULYr1nsZ0
semaphore,
Great stuff.
Happy Festivus!
semaphore,
Great stuff.
Happy Festivus!
Lincoln did not specify the Christian God there. Historians agree that while Lincoln may have grown religious towards the end of his presidency, he was at most a deist. Deism is not the same as Christianity. Now, keep in mind that had he actually stated "I don't believe in God" in public his image would severely be damaged, which he could not observe. However, Lincoln almost never made references to Jesus in his life, and according to his friends, when he discussed religion in private, he was often agnostic or atheist. Now, being "Thankful" does not necessarily indicate being thankful to a God.
Except they are essentially the same thing. Imposing a national religion invariably oppresses those who are not part of that religion. It is one thing if you claim abortion is murder, but if you force prayer into classrooms, that violates the constitution.
Yes, Congress opens each session with a prayer, but that prayer is not necessarily Christian. In regards to Jefferson, the word "seperation of church and state" may not be in the constitution, but "Congress may not establish a religion" is. In addition, last time I checked, Jefferson was a founding father.
The second statement is out of context. I claimed I never stated that you had taken actions against gays. However, you certainly appear to be against gays serving in the military.
Irrelevant. Your reason was "it hurts morale", and I cited that the same argument applied to blacks in the military. It doesn't matter whether homosexuality is a choice (though many would contest you there). Atheism is a choice, and we have always allowed that in the military, even though it may "hurt morale".
As do I. That way, the government can't hide homophobia under a veil like that. And Clinton being a "scumbag" (interesting word choice there... heh heh) is irrelevant. General consensus holds that a political sex scandal can come from anywhere.
I would also like to add that you did not address my point about the Treaty of Tripoli.
Anon,
You are going around in circles. First you say Lincoln was an athiest in 1.97(clearly he wasn't) then in 1.100, you claim he didn't create the holiday on the basis of the Pilgrim Tradition because he was an agnostic (the words of his Proclaimation prove you wrong) and now you admit his Deism with the caveat he didn't directly reference the Christian God. But since that was the Pilgrim God, and he was setting the Holiday based upon their long held practice, it certainly wouldn't be any other God whether he specifically said so or not.
State mandates v 1st Amendment Liberty is not the same thing at all. Please cite where I, Perry, or any other Republican/conservative/Evangelical has ever "forced" prayer in a public classroom.
And again with more circular distortion. Who cares what faith is being represented by the opening prayer of Congress (btw, its Christianity). The point is it takes place. It's not an establishment of religion. It is practicing religion on official government time and money.
More:"you certainly appear to be against gays serving in the military," when from 1.99 I already told you "nor have I said gays should not be able to serve in the military," and from 1.101 "either let them serve or don't, without the ambiguity of DADT." Never did I say or imply they shouldn't serve. Military people should know best. You asked for a reason against it and I complied by telling you what all those military people I know directly say. If the brass feels otherwise, so be it. But stop telling me I take things out of context; especially when you jump from contradicted point to the next baseless position like a frog on steroids.
Again, it's not irrelevant. Blacks can't choose not to be black (unless they're MJ). Atheism is the denial of history, but nobody has ever accused that of hurting military morale because it's a mental choice, not a behavioral one. Please don't insist on being obtuse by pretending you don't know the difference. The whole gay persecution is like black racial discrimination argument is so silly as to be nothing more than inane.
Not allowing gays to serve (if indeed it is bad for morale, or any other Reason) is not homophobia. Yes, sex scandals come from all sides. The point about Clinton is that he was dirtball who took this on as his first big POTUS action as a payback to the far left (including the pro gay movement comprised of gays and many more non gays) rather than something really important, and in true Clinton daliance fashion he did what he was good at; namely, he f'd it.
I know about ToT. It doesn't matter. It just reinforces my point that the gov can't tell us how to worship, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with us individuals moving the political discourse based on our moral/religious beliefs as long as we don't trample the Liberty of others.
You can have the last word if you want. I gotta move on. God Bless you, lol.
@semaphore - wow you guessed right for once East not in the good Ole USofA and guess what? Just calling yourself a Christian does not make it so, but if the cloak of piety suits you then join your pal "Christian Joe" hold hands, maybe a deep kiss and you know #$@% each other. What a worthless mountain of dribble from pious joe and now you "don't want to join the argument" HMmmmmm. More subterfuge? My fellow Christians lol Ahahahahaha I would not venture within your space the contagious mind disease from which you suffer....no thanks. Difficult to log on but after reading most of this dungish "Christianity" represented in joe and his (male?) idiotic circumspection of Xmas which was taken from pagan rituals..Sssssssst don't tell joe. What a waste you two soul mates make out of good space, your mutual mind-set floating in the ether, the most upper region. Carry on I am sure there are many laughing at this cartoon, carry on pious clowns a festival in of itself. lol
@Persevere, I was basing my assumption of your location on your previous comment on Mon Nov 21, 2011 where you said you are an "American in America". As for your suggestion I'm somehow a Christian in league with Joe... please post some more. It's kind of hilarious the stuff your sordid imagination comes up with.
Just to add something of value to this conversation, watched the debates on Saturday (or Sunday morning, depending on your Pacific rim locale). I didn't really see Perry double-down on the social conservatives. Interesting his homage to Ron Paul at the end, regarding the federal reserve. Consider out of the 6 candidates, 2 said they learned something from Ron Paul (who they probably consider a non-viable candidate), and 1 referenced Cain (who is not a viable candidate), guess they were playing it safe. Although I do not care for Santorum, he seemed to respond the most candidly when he described how much he learned from Newt as a young politician.
Joe,
Yup, that was written by John Adams and signed by Washington. "Creator" doesn't necessarily mean YOU'RE idea of a creator. And that "In God we Trust" stuff, that wasn't added until the 1950's. Every other reference you made is nothing but semantics and ambiguity. "Blessings", "Lords", those can be construed individually as anythign we want.
You're act of bigotry??? I point to your posts. YOU are the disgusting, filthy, and abhorrent person here, and I can only thank GOD that our country protects us from crazy fundementalists such as you.
Sarah,
Please cite where I said it was? Again, you can't because I haven't. It was founded by a bunch of men who were mostly Christians that had the good sense to not allow the Nation to Dictate such as an official religion, let alone a specific Denomination (although a number of the individual Colonies had). Nonetheless , it's founding was highly influenced by their religious morals which filtered through to the Declaration, the Constitution, and many many more of our laws and traditions ever since. To deny such is just blatantly ignoring history.
Who do you think that Creator meant to a bunch of Protestants? Give ya a clue clueless, it wasn't Allah. And you go right on believing that those Founders who enshrined that all rights come from God just threw all of those other things in there for good literary effect.
My posts are merely an expression of my 1st Amendment Rights, not a formal act. Only someone as desperate for a cogent argument such as yourself would call them an 'act,' let alone bigotry.
BTW Unstein, that's another collar for you because I'm not a 'fundamentalist' either.
Happy 'National Holiday' Thanksgiving to God.
Merry 'National Holiday' CHRISTmas.
Please tell us we we haven't made Id, Hannukah, and Chinese New Year national holidays too Ms. Oracle.
"Who do you think that Creator meant to a bunch of Protestants?"
The word god was deliberately delected and creator was substituted specifically to avoid giving the appearance of favoring a christian deity. You haven't read much US history, have you?
sailcat,
I've read, studied, and taught it magoo. Try to read and properly understand exactly what I wrote and what it meant before you jump on the not-know-it-all bandwagon.
What I posed to clueless was to which 'God' they were obviously referring. They didn't want the 'appearance' of favoritism, as it were, by citing the Christian God. But they were predominantly Christians. That is the 'God/Creator' to whom they alluded. Not Allah, Buddha, or any other non-Christian Deity.
I was responding to a specific statement you made with an accurate answer. You were saying that the framers of the Constitution were referring to a christian god, when in fact, they were making a direct effort not to do just that. If you want to change the meaning of your inaccurate statement, you need to admit you were wrong and start over.
Sailcat,
Not even a nice try for that convoluted dribble of a response. I'm not the one who initiated the Constitution into this argument in the first place. All I said was that it was reasonable for Perry-whom I could not care less about as a candidate-to court the vote of Iowan 'Evangelicals.' Just as it would be a calculated move for any shall we say unnamed democrat who wanted to win favor with the left to brand them as 'bitter clingers of guns and Bibles.' Do ya think ole Sarah would jump his half black arse for such "bigotry?" Not in a million jackass years. (But she'll freak about half black arse, even though we all know she wouldn't make a peep if Jesse Jackson wanted to "cut that @!$%#s balls off.") And you can thank the editors for blurring Jesse's actual use of the n word.
Anon is the one who chimed in with the nonsensical position that Perry shouldn't because we are a secular nation with a Constitution 'separating' Church and State. And Sarah came along with her fiery and false accusations for which she has twice been swatted and has yet to muster a decent-and I do mean 'decent'-reply.
Now you jumping in on the same question she hasn't answered, which btw has an obvious response. What, they were Christians who went to all the trouble to mention God, but they didn't mean the God they believed in? They meant some other God? Or not really any God at all, it just sounded nice?
C'mon, you know better. They were Christians who meant the Christian God. But they had the genius not to specify such so as to allow for true Freedom of Worship by peoples of any and all Faiths be they Christian or not.
But enough of this. We vehemently disagree on some things. So be it. You can have the last word if you want it. I have nothing but love for everyone; even people who commit acts I deem immoral, whether it's sodomy or murder.
And no Sarah, I'm not equating them; murder is obviously worse. So put your bigot card back in your hand until you're ready to play it against the true bigots. You know, the ones who died fighting Republican Abolitionists and a Republican President in order to preserve slavery; the ones who instituted the KKK after they lost that fight so as to 'terrorize' freed blacks and the Republicans who aided them; the ones who created Poll Taxes, Literacy Tests, and other meniacal means to prevent blacks from voting; the ones who opposed the Republican sponsored Civil Rights legislation in the 50's; the one's who kept their Public Schools segregated until the SCOTUS and a Republican POTUS imposed desegregation; the very ones that to this day call a black man an 'Uncle Tom' if he dares to stray from their Political Plantation. I don't even have to name them. We all know full well who they are.
Joe,
Regardless of what religion the founding fathers were, and they were by no means all Protestant, they did not in anyway base our nation on Christianity.
We'll start with James Madison...
How about some Jefferson...
Ben Franklyn...
And once again, my favorite and completely indisputable, written by John Adams and unanimously ratified by Congress... I give you the Treaty of Tripoli...
So perhaps some of the original signers of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance were Protestants. However, it sure doesn't seem like that mattered much, does it???
And yes, it is your 1st Amendment right to post all the disgusting hateful rhetoric you want, just like it's the KKK'S 1st Amendment right to march down the street screaming the n-word. And I will defend to the death your right to freedom of expression, however that doesn't make what you post about homosexuals any less gross, hateful, judmental, or flat out stupid.
And, P.S...
Bigotry doesn't have to be an act. A bigot is someone who is devoted to their own prejudices to the point of intolerance and animosity. When you tell people they're filthy and abhorrent because of something they do in their private lives that has zero, ZERO, effect on you, and you believe them to be filthy and abhorrent because an unprovable belief tells you they are, and than when you advocate for laws that place illogical and unreasonable strictures on them (like refusing to allow them to enter into contracts with each other, i.e. marriage) because of that unprovable belief... That's bigotry.
P.P.S...
That judge the sin, not the sinner, well that would simply be you refraining from engaging in activity that you feel is sinful, and leaving everyone else alone. When you call homosexuals, even just their behaviors, things like filthy and perverted, yeah, that's you passing judgment, seeing as you're looking into their private behaviors and negatively labling them.
Keep your hate, out of my laws and in whatever screwed up church you learned it from.
Oh yes, and Joe,
Just because some of the original signers held Christian definitions of "Creator" or "blessings" yada, yada, yada, that doesn't mean they wanted to force everyone else to hold Christian meanings for those words.
Duh.
Sarah,
You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself. The majority of them were Christians, and mostly Protestant. Please enlighten us as to how many of them were Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, etc.. I never said that this was founded as a Christian nation. I said-and it is-a nation whose morals are based in large part upon the predominently Christian beliefs of the Founders. Nor did I say they wanted to make others believe as they did. Quite the contrary, I credited their genius in establishing Freedom of Religion.
If you're going to define bigotry as harsh opinions stated here, then sister you are taking the cake. Quite consistent from the kind of person who can fire all kinds of baseless allegations against someone she disagrees with but really doesn't know worth a lick. Certainly your posts have proven to be completely "intolerant" of my beliefs, as well as full of "animosity" towards them. Nice going, self-defined "bigot."
You're so full of rage defending bigamous sodomy (yeah, that's such a clean and wholesome thing) that you can't clearly see past the end of your nose. I didn't express a single anomous thought toward gays. You on the other hand have continued to do nothing but spew vile at me. Just the kind of real bigotry that's to be expected from a Christian bashing, hater like you.
And that judging of the sin is what allows us to be forgiving of the sinner, rather then condemning them. Just another point of the entire 'judge not' thing that people like you fail to fathom. That's why I judge actions, not people. Yet from my mere words you have chosen to judge me. My, such hypocrisy Sarah.
No surprise you misspelled Franklin, but correctly spelled duh. Bet that's a major part of your vocabulary. As with Anon, I grow tired of checkmating your confusion and having nothing further to say to you here.
Merry Christmas Sarah.
A but you see Joe, my harsh opinion of you has nothing to do with who you inately were born as, or even a behavior you partake in that has zero consequence in my life, it has everything to do with your judgment and hate towards other people. You're currently reaping the bounty that your bigotted post has sown. See, you would still post hateful and disgusting crap towards gays, regardless of whether they were kind to you, I only call you disgusting and abhorrent, due to your filthy attack against gay people. If you had shown them kindness, I wouldn't have said boo to you. Oh yes, and I find you personally, sickening, not your entire demographic. See the difference? So does that make me bigotted against bigots??? Well, if it does, seeing as they're the only people I'm bigotted against, I'm okay with that.
And again, how much clearer does "In no sense founded on the Christian religion" have to be??? Christian religion, as in morals and beliefs. Morals are individual. They guide you're individual behavior. Just because you define something as immoral, or you group together with people who have similar morals, doesn't mean your morals are correct. Our country is based on law. Law is not morals. Law is reason free of passion. Passion most often, being driven by moral beliefs. That's why I can think your views on homosexuality are immoral, but still defend your right to have them. However that doesn't mean I have to keep silent in the face of them, especially when they're insulting and hateful towards people I care a great deal about.
Who are you to be in a position to bestow forgiveness on anyone? You're the farthest thing from a Christian I've had the misfortune to encounter. Your sickening, unjustified, pure bred, hatred towards an entire group of people who've done nothing to you, has nothing to do with what Jesus taught. Please, how many times did Jesus mention gay people???
Perhaps you should worry about your own self and stop your sick obsession with other people's sex lives?
Dress it up and try to justify it in Jesus's name, or anyway you want, it doesn't make you anyless hateful. Oh, and thanks for the spell check. When logic fails, and your shown in your true light, resort to editing the other person's post, right? Thank God you're done, go crawl back into whatever satan-filled hole you came from.
Sorry Sally, I'm done.
Well... let's call the whole thing off.
Joe said. "If you're going to define bigotry as harsh opinions stated here, then sister you are taking the cake."
How about these gems:
"Do ya think ole Sarah would jump his half black arse for such "bigotry?"
"You're so full of rage defending bigamous sodomy"
"The whole gay persecution is like black racial discrimination argument is so silly as to be nothing more than inane."
Joe is so steeped in his own prejudices and bigotry that he has rationalized them to the degree he thinks they are reasonable opinions instead of hateful invective. His posts say far more about him than they do about anything else.
I don't expect Joe to have the intellectual horsepower to grasp concepts like shame but he can be assured other people will read his ignorant, venomous nonsense and they will turn away ashamed and disgusted at him and for him.
Say it ain't so Sue (Joe) –
I lost track of the time zones and déjà vu all over again. Joe you are starting to exasperate the hell out of everyone reading this thread again stick to being a history teacher not a theologian and mind reader imputing your own interpretation onto the framers that knew of the "tyranny of the mind", your pious Jefferson's own words relative to any religion. After which please read "Common Sense" (pun) and the "The Rights of Man", by Thomas Paine. Paine defends the representational form of government. He posits that all men are born with natural rights that cannot be taken from them by any government or religion. Paine's position on inalienable rights played a major role in the Bill of Rights being included in the Constitution. This seminal work is as pertinent today as when it was first written. Now here is where Joe uses the "strawman" cheap debater trick (argumentum ad logicam) and irrefutably posits that in the mind of Mr. Paine we must conclude he meant a Christian God bestowed these rights (Non-Sequitur trick). But what our history teacher forgets is that Mr. Paine was an avowed atheist. Ole slick Joe playing those minds games together "We all been playing those mind games forever Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil Doing the mind guerrilla Some call it magic the search for the grail" Joe Joe Joe good try enough of the mind games. Forget it Joe go back to the Ouija board the Christian version, the one, you know the boards have become very popular with the ardent rabid Christian fanatic. Used for divination, spiritualism or just simple entertainment as we are witnessing on this thread…entertainment.
"Lets Call The Thing Off".....Cole Porter I do believe.....plus a one eyed jack works in poker not here...I reserve the right as a "free a thinker" (Framers again darn Joe, they get in your way) to sing aloud "Shomer Shabbas" I refuse to roll that is right "Lets Roll" not this time I'm bowing out I'm dealing with hi-tech Quija wisdom and spiritualism and who knows what else. Shomer Shabbas!! Even semaphore agrees on this?
Adios Amigos............
Yikes! - Christian Joe - your words - I quote you -
"I have nothing but love for everyone; even people who commit acts I deem immoral, whether it's sodomy or murder." If so I suppose acts of Pedophilia you love the Pedophile if one follows your, if you are true to your own Twisted Sister logic. I leave you to wallow in your own quagmire of lizards twirling around in your head, why I came back for this quick post is it right that you stated as your authority to tell us all what The Framers were thinking lacking any record of substance of the deliberations excepting Madison's notes was you taught history? Don't tell us American history? Hummm my concern is that you were allowed to teach any history in a public school? God I hope not possibly Liberty College the self-described, you know the so-called Jerry Fartsmell Religulous University. Please say you did not teach American history in a public school with your bias and Reigulousness? - Oh MY --- "Shomer Shabbas"
"I have nothing but love for everyone; even people who commit acts I deem immoral, whether it's sodomy or murder."
Damn. I missed that line in my read-through or I would definitely have led with it as an example of Joe's hypocrisy and intolerance. Good catch, Persevere.
Aren't you all (Joe, Sarah, Persevere) on the same side? It's not like anyone is talking Westboro Baptist here, so would have thought you'd be more accepting of each other. I'm not a Christian, but this discussion is making me not want to check out that church down the street I was considering for this weekend. I understand the difficulty in trying to divine the nature of the almighty through the syntax of a few ancient, fallible disciples, but I already have enough vitriolic rhetoric in the other facets of my life.
Wasn't the house Perry is gambling with only polling in single digits? Might as well take a few long shot bets - he's got nothing to lose.
It's very confusing. What does serving openly in the military have anything to do with prayer in schools?
It is a very convoluted thought process only made clear to those in the GOP field.
christians - always the most persecuted - never get to be christians. thats what it's about. see all the fine examples I list below of christians being persecuted...
they were forced to serve in the military and unable to say they were christians, and if they did let it slip...they could get booted from service, wait that was the gays.
wasnt it the christians who couldnt drink from the same water fountains as the,...wait no that was black people.
wasnt it the christians who werent allowed to marry people of another, no wait...that was just regular ol' black and white people couldnt marry each other, and gays cant marry each other...
no wait, I know...remember when the christians were driven from their homelands, and slaughtered en masse...and then forced to live on reservations...wait, no that was what christians did to native americans.
oh i got one...how about the time christians were put in concentration camps and gassed. wait, that was jews...gassed by christians.
well what about that time after pearl harbor was bombed, and all the christians were rounded up and put in camps...no, that was the japanese.
hmmmm...thats right. remember the time christians werent allowed to force everyone else to participate in school prayer, but could still pray on their own in school if they wanted to? thats right...that one happened to the christians...oh those oh so persecuted christians!
@Jessica
Bravo!!! Bravo!!!! Encore, encore!!!!! If I could, I would vote for that one a dozen times. Well done!
Great post Jessica, absolutely a classic, well done !!
Didn't Huckabee run on social issues to win Iowa in 2008. That worked out well and he went on to win the nomination ..... oh whatever ;-)
Jessica, nice list.
nice post, Jessica. But remember, they're persecuted because they aren't allowed nativity scenes on government property. No one ever said they can't have them on their own front yards, right?
That's Brava, phinephancy, Brava!
Nothing could be more of an assault on Christian values, than trying to provide health care to all those who need it? I'm quite sure Jesus would be outraged at the idea of "Obamacare". I'm quite sure Jesus would be outraged at the idea of a tax hike on the extremely wealthy to help maintain funds for programs that help the old, the sick, and the poor people among us. Shove it right up your ass Perry, Republican policies and Christianity have nothing in common.
@ Jessica, YOU GO GIRL!!!!
HEAR, HEAR!!!!
Second, third and Fourth this motion!!!!
I wish these damn republicans and democrats that have the urge, STOP using the lord god to justify your self serving slimy political agendas!!!! (Jesus does not support your greedy bull@!$%#e!)
Wouldn't that be a refreshing change?
Yes it would be a refreshing change, I am not a bible scholar by any stretch, but I don't recall Jesus endorsing any candidates while he was on earth and he certainly has not endorsed any since. I find it absurd that candidates claim that God talked to them and told them to run for office, but then did not lay out a set of campaign positions for them that mirror all his teachings. Another big problem with mixing religion with politics is that when these politicians lose an election, then god has lost the election as well, that is why they feel they can say liberals and democrats are against God. None of that is actually true, God did not run in the election but that is the implication for many, when they bring their religion directly into their politics.
Jessica, one of the best posts here ever!!!! BRILLIANT!
(Try to have a very merry Christmas as you sit naked in the winter's cold behind barbed wire singing "Silent Night" with your tongue caught out!") Grechan Carslon at Faux and Friends.
Jessica, go to the link above that Kat posted (#1.58) and post this on the Faux "News" Web site! Pleeeaaassssseeeee!!!! OMG, to see the reaction of those people who read (and agree with) the inane drivel posted there.
Just a little CHRISTmas gift for our conservative friends!
Peace
I've always wondered why Ameican Christians (such as me) find their religious faith so weak and insecure that they find it necessary to be continually reinforced outside of their own worship services.
Faith that needs the constant support of prayer in schools, that feels diminished by use of the word "holiday" during the celebration of Christmas, that needs the uplifting words of "God Bless America" to replace the invigorating words of "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" is a faith that leaves me troubled.
My faith in God Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, has no need of such worldly accouterments. I do not sit in judgement, but find it unsettling to see charletans trading on my religious beliefs in order to curry my political support, and even more troubling that so many citizens are swayed by such self-righteous pronouncements of piety.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." Matt 22:21
This kind of BS deserves a response: Go to "Rick Perry is Bad for America" on Facebook.
You don't have to be smart to be Governor of the nation state of Texas, BS is all that's required.
You don't have to be smart to be Governor of the nation state of Texas, BS is all that's required.
Nah, you need some $$$$ to go along with it. BS and bucks! I like it.
You know, I just can't understand it. I lived in Texas for five years, and I met some really smart, no nonsense people there. How in the world did this man get elected Gov.? Yea, it was different, and I was really glad to leave, but I don't remember running into or associating with anyone that I would consider as big a nut case as this guy. Wha' happened?
I believe in sports this is called a "Hail Mary".
Might have to say a few Hail Mary's if Perry's ploy works in Iowa.
Come on Rick, You can do it! Get back in there! With Herman gone , the other candidates just aren't as funny. If only Michelle could try for a comeback too!
Is Michelle still in the race? Thought she might be busy converting gays with her hubby about now.
Actually its a "Hail Mary full of grace".
Phine, what are you talking about? you know darn well that Marcus doesn't like anyone, especially Michelle, in the room while he is "CONVERTING" a gay
@fuzzy
I stand ashamed. You are correct. Mea culpa. LOL
@Eric
Nothing full of grace about the GOP this year. My priest is even shocked. He would love to get them in the confessional!
Funneee, fuzzy44, funneeeee!
Absolutely hysterical fuzzy.
Perry is getting really scary. He is using the themes of racial intolerance, religious intolerance, and he is still acting lile a "Social Sadist." "Scary Perry" knows nothing on Foreign Policy issues, and know less on economic issues. He has shown. Again! That he has no ability to think, read, or do any research on his own. It is time to wave good bye to "Scary Perry."
You have just described the GOP platform.
A couple of 100 years ago many European Nations decided to deal with their insane citizens by putting them out sea on as they were called Ships of Fools. America you have a jobs program, start building.
Oh, can I help build? I swing a mean nail gun!
It is 2011....I honestly have no words for this.
Every time I hear this man speak, I lose another part of my brain. I had better shut off my computer before it's too late.
Well obviously, I have three things to say, about that: #1 I'm right. #2 You're not. #3....um...wait, it'll come....omg, I know there was a third. I'll get back to ya, later.
If George W. Bush were not enough, Rick Perry is walking proof that the people in Texas are crazy!
George Bush isn't from Texas. You people need to do some research before you open your mouths. Oh wait it's MSNBC followers. Sorry.
Actually, the Bush family was from Connecticut!...W born and schooled in Connecticut!
But, they liked to call themselves Texans.......Those carpetbaggers saw that it was easy pickin' in Texas.....
Hey, I've got some great friends in Texas. Good, honest, smart people. Maybe (I guess obviously) they aren't the majority, but please don't tar them by comparison to some Connecticut preppie wannabe. When we do that (yeah, I have done it) It kinda makes us sound elitist. Perry, well I guess Texas has to answer for him. BTW, a buddy of mine went to prep school with George the Lesser - says he as a little towel slapping fool back then too.
John, you need to do the research. Bush might not have been born in Texas, but he was governor for years. He was president of the Texas Rangers ball club, and he is as nutty as a fruit cake. He meets and exceeds all qualifications to be a true Texan.
George Bush isn't from Texas? He was born in Connecticut, yes, but only because his father was going to school there at the time - he moved to Midland immediately upon graduation. Dubya lived the vast majority of his childhood and life in general in Texas. As a Texan I'm hardly about to agree that the people in Texas are crazy, but the idea that Bush isn't "from Texas" is equally silly. He went to primary school in Midland and Houston, he married a girl from Midland, he settled in Midland, served in the Texas Air National Guard, ran for House of Representatives from Texas, then became governor of Texas... I mean, what more do you want? Does he need to tattoo a Lone Star on his forehead? By your logic, John McCain is from Panama.
John...you are correct, George W. Bush was born in Connecticut, but he was RAISED in Texas. He went to school there. The point being made was "oh great...another Texas Governor." I was born in California, but moved to Illinois when I was 5. I consider myself from Illinois, not California. Bush is the same. He considers himself a Texan. Wow! Hate much???
How did McCain get across the border into Arizona? Maybe they were checking the wrong citizenship a few years ago.
William is correct, Texans are crazy- they made Bush and Perry governors
Texas' economy is better than any other state in the nation, DODO. It's golden sunshine to hear a man stand up for who we are and why we are, who we are. It's not because the founding fathers were turkey socialists. Obama was NOT raised in the USA so it's no wonder he doesn't understand our values, and seeks to trash the Constitution at every turn. Remember Michelle was Not proud to be an American until she was 40 something years old. Something wrong with that picture!!!!!
Clark - I've read some stupid comments on this board today, but you win the prize.
How was Dubya back then? If he's portrayed accurately in the movie "W", then at least he wasn't a nutcase back in the day.
"Rick Perry is walking proof that the people in Texas are crazy!"
I would resent THAT, however for the most part it is true amongst the blowhards.
So john-boy,
"You people need to do some research before you open your mouths. Oh wait it's MSNBC followers. Sorry."
the question is, bucko, what Phu-que are you doing HERE?
Tell you something, if you were on fire, I'ld put you out! G'Day
Can we just gift Texas to Mexico?
As long as they take California first.
I thought they already did. Texas was borrowed from Mexico in 1836 but by 1970 is was returned. The drug cartels who run Mexico started calling the shots in Austin when drugs became more profitable than oil.
Perry's total campaign agenda and offering...
"I go to a Christian Church that is MORE Christian than anyone else's!
On everything else... I am just plain stupid...not that there is anything wrong with it... Heh..heh..heh!"
I am Rick Perry and I approve this message.
he and texas deserve each other - dumb and dumber
Fred - Please leave an exception for Austin.
nisl, we need to move you from Texas to Florida. Of course, you would go from Ricky Bobby Perry to 5th amendment Ricky Scott, but, hey, nothing is perfect.
Phine - I think I'd rather stay in Texas. Governor Goodhair is a worthless dunce, but Texas' governorship was designed to be a placeholder position. Way back when the fear of carpet baggers was highly prevalent in Texas.
And Rick Scott is even worse than Perry. At least Perry has the good hair, Scott looks and acts like Lex Luthor.
I would never say this to my daughter or her husband, but he (my son-in-law) looks just like Rick Scott. Can we both say EWWWWWW
One Texas governor, Smith, back in the 60's went to lunch by himself most days. Lots of power in that political wind bag. LOL Texas is a very beautiful place to live (if you like droughts, the smell of oil refineries, and pathetic politics). Mexican food is great there, about 60/40 on the dumb ass/decent folks ratio.
Wrong! He and a lot of his sock cucking friends need a long drop with a short piece of hemp, -after the gubernatorial pardon doesn't come -of course.
He went full Jesus, man. Never go full Jesus.
I can never figure out how giving gays the same rights as everyone else is somehow giving them "special" treatment.
They think that protecting someone from persecution is a "special right".
Unless, of course, they are the ones being persecuted.
Many of these postings prove the Truth of the Bible. "The Fool has said in his heart, There is No GOD." Psalm 14:1
oh Alan.....poor, poor Alan.....
No, these postings prove that AMERICANS ARE GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF RELIGION. It's ok for the "believers" to question the moral compass of others, but when THEY get questioned and tested....watch out.....fire and brimstone.
Oh corona, poor corona. Save your sympathy, because Alan is the one who is going to be looking at you with pity when you stand before God and realize that He IS and it is now too late.
Problem is most of the republicans worship a god that is green and made of a cloth that resembles paper.
I believe there is another "truth in the bible" that addresses that as well.
Steady.....no such thing will ever happen. Your fear of death is normal and natural, but it does not make un-true things true.
Steady.....which "god" will I stand before?
Over 30,000 "gods" in recorded history.....you're taking quite a risk only choosing 1.
Good luck brother.
Careful Mr. Steady, not so sure God likes you making judgements for him, she just told me.
Notice the distinction - 30,000 "gods", but only ONE God, capital G. The one true and living God, the creator of all things.
Truth is still truth whether you believe it or not. But just keep denying. And by the way, I have no fear of death at all. I am happy, because I know that I will spend eternity with God. In Heaven where life will be perfect. And that is exciting.
Bluecat, I am not making any judgements. Just repeating what God has already said in His word. If you deny Him, He also will deny you when He returns and gives all His believers an eternal reward called Heaven. But the choice is yours to make.
My god's bigger than your god!
I could not have said it better myself....."Truth is still truth whether you believe it or not".
You have hijacked the word "truth" and bastardized it to mean faith....which just means not wanting the accept what is real.
You hitting the "shift" key while typing god doesn't make it/him/her any more real than the other 30,000 gods that came before......
Of course you do believe god is a man, as you are clearly proud to be a man Mr Steady. Makes that whole "believe in something made-up because he is just like me" thing palatable.
Alan, I think you need a logic transplant.
I love the portraits of the blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus. Who ever saw a Jewish guy from Jerusalem with blonde & blue. But....we all want God to look like us....guess that explains it.
Well Alan son, IT'S up to you to Prove your non sequitur. Good luck with that.
"And by the way, I have no fear of death at all. I am happy, because I know that I will spend eternity with God. In Heaven where life will be perfect. And that is exciting."
So, I hear mr unsteady, that bomb disposal personel are sorely needed in Afghanistan.
Being as how YOU are so totally FEARLESS, and surely want to go that "Big Rock Candy Mountain" in the sky ...... how about helping a few of the troops out along your way, eh?
" Just repeating what God has already said in His word."
You GOT ABSOLUTE PROOF of THAT STATEMENT >that is to say "the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT" in sky god's hand?
Thought not!
Doesn't this guy have a rock in his hunting club that is labeled with the statement "ni66er head"?
He's is a hypocrite, racist, plastic front man for big money.
deleted comment
Rick Perry is a gigantic idiot who makes W look like Einstein. This man is completely out of touch with reality and lives in some kind of fantasy dream world. It makes me ill to hear the tripe that spews forth from his mouth every time he speaks.
True, but he has great hair.
Fascists, Neo Nazis and just plain dumbasses! Unite! Rick Perry is your man!
I forgot: Gun nuts, crazy nuts and numb nuts too!
Waving God around seems patronizing! Is he desperate? Does he fear for his own faith?
Specifically, what has Obama done that would be considered "War on Religion"? No generalizations like "His policies". I want a specific act, law, statement whatever that would constitute Obama declaring war on religion.
you didn't get the GOP T-TARD memo? EVERYONE knows he's a kenyan born, socialist/marxist, Muslim terrorist.
Just kidding! No one will answer you because there is NO answer. All of 2007 I heard Obama was going to take away everyone's guns. He must have snuck in and replaced mine with fakes! :)
What a freaking idiot. He is trying to get elected by being anti-gay during a time of 10% unemployment? He must think the social conservatives are blind, deaf, and dumb. Wait! Me and Rick Perry agree on something
It's great to see FEISTY REDHEAD'S stupid and ignorant posts, she may get the Pulitzer prize for stupidity.
It's time for more "Cliff notes".
He's cyber stalking you Feisty
Cliffy's gotta a girlfriend
You noticed... lol
For some reason, no matter how hard I shake my leg, I can't dislodge Cliffy's humping!
Hit him on the nose with a newspaper.
Thanks for the tip Dave! ;o)
If that doesn't work, there is always the shock collar....
Stop it, Feisty and Dave!! You guys are killing me! I'm supposed to be working and you can hear me laughing down the hallway!!
My bad kat - I promise to do better in the future! ;o)
That "strong" ad is quite strange: Obama is not waging some war against religion...he goes to church, has kept faith-based intiatives going, talks about his relationship with Jesus, etc. Don't get me wrong--I wish there was a concerted "war" to protect the wall of separation of church and state, and I wish more people relied upon reason and critical thinking rather than ancient texts written by illiterate, superstitious people who believed in virgin births and guys coming back from the dead. But Obama isn't waging some war against that. Perry is pandering to his "christian" followers who perceive that war going on everywhere--they're a frustrated group as they'd love to see their beliefs thrust upon everyone else and that's not going to happen in our secular democracy. Perry's strategy is the final, last-ditch effort indeed. Pretty soon we'll be hearing his "suspending my race for the presidency" speech, and he'll return to Texas as a footnote to the campaign.
Don't forget the church that Obama used to go to, where he took his kids, and where they all had to listen Rev Wright's hate filled rants.
You mean they all "chose" to listen, not "had" to. For 20 years??
Yeah! OK Wally we won't forget, by the way how's the bev doing?
You can't say he is waging a war on religion (insinuating that he's not religious) then complain about the church he attends. Many churches preach hateful things. Have you ever been to a Southern Baptist Church??? I use to attend one...until they started preaching that an abused wife couldn't divorce her abusive husband because it's against God's will. It made me sick! I have since found a more loving church, but the point is that there are many churches that spew hate, not just the one Barack Obama used to attend.
Trinity Church did not "spew hate for 20 years." That is an obvious and slanderous lie. They had alot of heated rhetoric, sometimes with overly self-righteous anger, but that is not the same thing.
Come on, you all know that just because Obama goes to church, celebrates Christmas, and has stated that he is a Christian doesn't prove anything. I got an e-mail the other day that said he's a Muslim, so it must be true. Just like the birth certificate doesn't prove he was born in Hawaii, Fox News said he was born in Kenya, and Fox doesn't lie. Yet when Cain had 5 women claim harassment, 2 of them resulting in a settlement, and a woman claiming a 13 year affair all I heard was "where's the proof". In other words, they denied it on Fox news so it can't be true. Perry had a rascist word painted on a rock in front of his place, but he's not a rascist because he said so. But anything said about Obama is automatically true, no evidence needed.
Perry is ugly, inside and out.
Rick Perry is a bigot. He insults the brave men and women who serve in the military both gay and straight with his pathetic pandering to the bigots. A little man, with a little brain with zero chance of being president.
Don't forget his predecessor -the clown kicking arse in a flight suit!