Something to consider that may temper our feelings about borders. This planet has no natural borders. They have always been established at gunpoint many times including genocide as was done even here to the original inhabitants we erroniously call Indians or Native Americans.
So while I'm not saying we should get rid of all of the national bounderies, we should accept the fact the the need to move about to survive is still in the works worldwide and a bit of compassion is in order.
The only way we will get a handle on "illegal" immigration is to acknowledge how many are in our country now and find a path to citizenship. As others have pointed out, the "conservative patron of all that is good" Reagan understood there is no way to oust that many people. For those opposed, do you want our country to become a police state so that you get your way? I don't. That certainly does not serve our constitution. Too many people in this country don't really know our history very well b/c they don't bother to do the research. They let the media tell them.
Leave the immigrants alone, especially children who did not even have a choice in the first place.
If Republicans think it is so all-fired important that people who break the law be punished, then start with elected officials that sell their country for campaign contributions, then how about the corporate officials that commit perjury in congressional hearings? What about the ratings agencies that committed fraud by rating junk bonds as AAA? Why is it ok for *them* to get off scott-free?
There is NO illegal immigration, there is only the INVASION of America by a foreign power. It is a WAR like any other war. It is about economics, same as any other WAR.
We do not allow hit and run from twenty-five years ago to just 'go away, or robbery (which it is on several levels), or rape, or theft of services, or any other illegal activity.
For over forty-years I was asking what is wrong with the people in California, Texas and Arizona that they let all those Mexicans run-across the border. We would never allow it to happen from Canada. I didn't understand how they could justify cheap labor with criminal activity. I couldn't understand why they allowed the gangs to spring-up without squashing them.
The answer I got then was, its only a few of them. I guess millions is a few to some people. Their nice people. They're only looking for a job. And, everybody's doing it. So much for a few.
The argument that they're such nice people holds-up as well as the Japs and the Germans were nice people. And they are doing the same thing! Just because white people are so stupid that they refuse to see an INVASION (that the invading army doesn't even need guns to do because the white people LET THEM) for what it is, makes it no less an INVASION.
Now that the Mexican gangs make it nearly impossible to travel to parts of the UNITED STATES. And a Mexican has YOUR job. And your paying for their kids to go to school. The hospital. Their rent and food stamps. And you're paying for the crime generated by these INVADERS. How you doing with that!
Personally, I'm not doing very well with Vermont being a "safe harbor" for criminals of any kind. There are Mexicans on farms in Derby Vermont. Half of Derby is in Canada!
What is in the water in America that makes so many Americans so mentally ill?
"Walk softly and carry a big stick," was not about golf or baseball.
Operation Wet Back, Mexicans, ALL OF THEM, back to Mexico!
You've made them my problem by allowing the US laws to be ignored, now I have a solution. It is the same solution that I had the first time I heard of this INVASION forty-plus years ago. It is the same as Rick's.
AJV, then what recourse should the American Indians have? As we did the exact same thing to them. Difference is we won, they lost and the rest is history. Your comments are both derogatory and paranoid. The majority of Latino's are doing jobs that most of us wouldn't dream of doing for the wages they receive, not to mention that your gangs comment is so off base its delusional. There are plenty of American gangs that make just as many parts of our country inaccessible as any of theirs do.
You cannot tell me with a sane mind that splitting up a family that has been here for 25 years serves any purpose. The fact is, if they have been here, working, supporting their family, and not breaking our laws then their should be a way to have them pay the amount that would normally have been paid to get naturalized. How can kicking out 10-15 million possible tax payers benefit anyone?
Shawn, you are stupid and ignorant past any possible hope.
If you think so highly of these Invaders, post your name, number and address, and have them ALL over to your house so you can support them.
So, four words for you to look-up so you actually know the definitions before you use them: delusional, paranoid, stupid and ignorant, all words that fit you far better than they fit me.
I have never understood how anyone in the United States has the nerve to get all high and mighty about other people who come to this land to try to make their lives better. Unless you are a Native American your ancestors came to this country to do the same. Some legally (the ones whose family could afford the high expense) and some not so legally. Yet all of that is forgotten.
I also find it interesting that the ones that scream the loudest are also the ones that know nothing about what these people went through to get here, what their lives are like. Blind hate and bigotry is their driving force.
It is only possible to come into this country legally if you can spend an enormous amount of money on lawyers or get a company to agree to sponsor you. If you can find a company willing to sponsor you they have to prove that you are uniquely qualified to do a job that few in the States can do. That is about it other than to beg asylum and for that you have to show proof that you fear for your life, that your country is unstable.
I just don't understand why certain people fear and hate immigrants. They just want to live a peaceful, law abiding life in a country that is clean, safe and good. They are not here to "steal our jobs".
"I have never understood how anyone in the United States has the nerve to get all high and mighty about other people who come to this land to try to make their lives better."
herself, that is because you aren't very smart and certainly aren't capable of critical thinking.
I have no problem with the ones that have been here, working, raising a family and staying out of trouble. If anything these are the ones we need to create a system of them to be naturalized.
On the other hand, if you come here, don't work, tax our already stressed system, break the law, then all i have is a big ole boot for your a$$ back to whence you came.
Nice contradiction Shawn. We are already supporting ALL of them!
I guess you can now agree that they ALL have to go back to wherever they came from. Unless. that is, some of them want to start the shooting war that is bound to happen sooner or later, now!
BTW. Your government is already arming the Mexicans so you might want to learn how to protect yourself and your family. The Mexicans seem to like murdering families. It passes a CLEAR message.
First of all, I think Newt realizes that they need Latino votes to succeed and that's the reason for his comments. The Republicans did little to stop the flow of illegals during the Bush years, or to deal with the problem. They actually encouraged it during the Bush years allowing companies to actually put up billboards in Mexico advertising American jobs needs . . . this was done intentionally to supply cheap labor and lower labor costs for their Corporate friends. Now that they have achieved their goal - they are willing to toss the Latinos aside and cater to the extrmes of their tea party members. Meanwhile, the right has controlled Congress by their filibusters and stonewalling which successfully blocked anything being accomplished by the majority party. This got them the House in 2010, but God helps us if it gains them anymore power - if they successfully block a second term for Obama, you can count on everything in the Ryan budget to come to fruiation! Privatize all social programs, except for the ones they disband, privatize our schools, our roads - WE will be definitely ruled by big Corporations, who will get whatever they want - they will be allowed to pollute at will! Not a pretty picture in their crystal ball! Think about it!
Newt has a point. Many illegals have been quietly earning a living in the underground economy for decades. At this point, they are as American as anyone. If someone has lived in the US for a long time, with a clean criminal record, and is not imposing a burden on the rest of society, common sense indicates we need a better solution than breaking up families. It doesn't have to be gold-plated with entitlements, but we don't have to relentlessly hunt them down and deport them either.
It was easy to think about this problem in terms of absolute terms -- right vs. wrong. Not so easy when you look at real cases.
This doesn't mean we make it easy for an unlimited number of NEW people to immigrate. A tough stance on immigration is best applied to those who have not yet arrived, or whose presence is currently imposing a burden on the rest of us.
So now they come here and steal from us? What is this - payback??????????? Now, if they allowed their country to slip through their fingers back then , I darn sure will protect my country from being stolen back by them.
Of course we'll provide a humane path to legal residence. What's the alternative for millions of people that we, as a nation, have allowed to be here and, in many cases, have benefitted from in the form of low-wage cleaners, yard workers, childcare givers, etc. Will we round them up for "transport" the way Nazi Germany did its undesirables? If so, where do we send millions of people? This is a problem we allowed to happen here in America, and we have to solve it - in a humane fashion consistent with our values - right here.
Sorry, illegals are still illegal whether they have been in the United States for one day or fifty years. The US. used to have allowances for immigrant's entering the United States, what happened to that? I can remember A couple from England that had come to the US. They opened a business, took part in the school PTA programs, bought a home and were highly respected by the towns folk. The US, only allowed so many people from England to enter and stay. Why should it be any different for others? Not to mention the financial burden on the US tax payers.
There is no difference in any of them. They are here ILLEGALLY. We need to get our military busy gathering all of them up and taking them to the border and watch their dumb ass walk home. They have robbed this country of billions of dollars and we are tired of it.
NOT WITHOUT STIPULATIONS.....Yes, let them stay but ONLY if they become citizens who pay taxes. Those eligible for Social Security should only receive it IF they've paid into it. This isn't just for hispanics - it's for anyone desiring to live in the US.
A pathway to citizenship is the only right thing to do.... I have to bite my tongue to agree with newt. Hell even bush lite pushed this, one of the few things the man got right.
This along with the Dream Act, will go far in solving the problem.
Something to consider that may temper our feelings about borders. This planet has no natural borders. They have always been established at gunpoint many times including genocide as was done even here to the original inhabitants we erroniously call Indians or Native Americans.
So while I'm not saying we should get rid of all of the national bounderies, we should accept the fact the the need to move about to survive is still in the works worldwide and a bit of compassion is in order.
The only way we will get a handle on "illegal" immigration is to acknowledge how many are in our country now and find a path to citizenship. As others have pointed out, the "conservative patron of all that is good" Reagan understood there is no way to oust that many people. For those opposed, do you want our country to become a police state so that you get your way? I don't. That certainly does not serve our constitution. Too many people in this country don't really know our history very well b/c they don't bother to do the research. They let the media tell them.
Does anyone remember how much of this country was theirs before it was stolen from them?
imperialist pigs...right? how can you stand to live in a country like this?
Leave the immigrants alone, especially children who did not even have a choice in the first place.
If Republicans think it is so all-fired important that people who break the law be punished, then start with elected officials that sell their country for campaign contributions, then how about the corporate officials that commit perjury in congressional hearings? What about the ratings agencies that committed fraud by rating junk bonds as AAA? Why is it ok for *them* to get off scott-free?
There is NO illegal immigration, there is only the INVASION of America by a foreign power. It is a WAR like any other war. It is about economics, same as any other WAR.
We do not allow hit and run from twenty-five years ago to just 'go away, or robbery (which it is on several levels), or rape, or theft of services, or any other illegal activity.
For over forty-years I was asking what is wrong with the people in California, Texas and Arizona that they let all those Mexicans run-across the border. We would never allow it to happen from Canada. I didn't understand how they could justify cheap labor with criminal activity. I couldn't understand why they allowed the gangs to spring-up without squashing them.
The answer I got then was, its only a few of them. I guess millions is a few to some people. Their nice people. They're only looking for a job. And, everybody's doing it. So much for a few.
The argument that they're such nice people holds-up as well as the Japs and the Germans were nice people. And they are doing the same thing! Just because white people are so stupid that they refuse to see an INVASION (that the invading army doesn't even need guns to do because the white people LET THEM) for what it is, makes it no less an INVASION.
Now that the Mexican gangs make it nearly impossible to travel to parts of the UNITED STATES. And a Mexican has YOUR job. And your paying for their kids to go to school. The hospital. Their rent and food stamps. And you're paying for the crime generated by these INVADERS. How you doing with that!
Personally, I'm not doing very well with Vermont being a "safe harbor" for criminals of any kind. There are Mexicans on farms in Derby Vermont. Half of Derby is in Canada!
What is in the water in America that makes so many Americans so mentally ill?
"Walk softly and carry a big stick," was not about golf or baseball.
Operation Wet Back, Mexicans, ALL OF THEM, back to Mexico!
You've made them my problem by allowing the US laws to be ignored, now I have a solution. It is the same solution that I had the first time I heard of this INVASION forty-plus years ago. It is the same as Rick's.
"Rick-2188532
We should humanely kick their arsses out!"
Back to wherever!
AJV, then what recourse should the American Indians have? As we did the exact same thing to them. Difference is we won, they lost and the rest is history. Your comments are both derogatory and paranoid. The majority of Latino's are doing jobs that most of us wouldn't dream of doing for the wages they receive, not to mention that your gangs comment is so off base its delusional. There are plenty of American gangs that make just as many parts of our country inaccessible as any of theirs do.
You cannot tell me with a sane mind that splitting up a family that has been here for 25 years serves any purpose. The fact is, if they have been here, working, supporting their family, and not breaking our laws then their should be a way to have them pay the amount that would normally have been paid to get naturalized. How can kicking out 10-15 million possible tax payers benefit anyone?
but we are now on good terms with Japan and in bed with China!?
Shawn, you are stupid and ignorant past any possible hope.
If you think so highly of these Invaders, post your name, number and address, and have them ALL over to your house so you can support them.
So, four words for you to look-up so you actually know the definitions before you use them: delusional, paranoid, stupid and ignorant, all words that fit you far better than they fit me.
I have never understood how anyone in the United States has the nerve to get all high and mighty about other people who come to this land to try to make their lives better. Unless you are a Native American your ancestors came to this country to do the same. Some legally (the ones whose family could afford the high expense) and some not so legally. Yet all of that is forgotten.
I also find it interesting that the ones that scream the loudest are also the ones that know nothing about what these people went through to get here, what their lives are like. Blind hate and bigotry is their driving force.
It is only possible to come into this country legally if you can spend an enormous amount of money on lawyers or get a company to agree to sponsor you. If you can find a company willing to sponsor you they have to prove that you are uniquely qualified to do a job that few in the States can do. That is about it other than to beg asylum and for that you have to show proof that you fear for your life, that your country is unstable.
I just don't understand why certain people fear and hate immigrants. They just want to live a peaceful, law abiding life in a country that is clean, safe and good. They are not here to "steal our jobs".
"I have never understood how anyone in the United States has the nerve to get all high and mighty about other people who come to this land to try to make their lives better."
herself, that is because you aren't very smart and certainly aren't capable of critical thinking.
I don't agree with Newt about illegals America is already hurting too much.
I have no problem with the ones that have been here, working, raising a family and staying out of trouble. If anything these are the ones we need to create a system of them to be naturalized.
On the other hand, if you come here, don't work, tax our already stressed system, break the law, then all i have is a big ole boot for your a$$ back to whence you came.
Nice contradiction Shawn. We are already supporting ALL of them!
I guess you can now agree that they ALL have to go back to wherever they came from. Unless. that is, some of them want to start the shooting war that is bound to happen sooner or later, now!
BTW. Your government is already arming the Mexicans so you might want to learn how to protect yourself and your family. The Mexicans seem to like murdering families. It passes a CLEAR message.
First of all, I think Newt realizes that they need Latino votes to succeed and that's the reason for his comments. The Republicans did little to stop the flow of illegals during the Bush years, or to deal with the problem. They actually encouraged it during the Bush years allowing companies to actually put up billboards in Mexico advertising American jobs needs . . . this was done intentionally to supply cheap labor and lower labor costs for their Corporate friends. Now that they have achieved their goal - they are willing to toss the Latinos aside and cater to the extrmes of their tea party members. Meanwhile, the right has controlled Congress by their filibusters and stonewalling which successfully blocked anything being accomplished by the majority party. This got them the House in 2010, but God helps us if it gains them anymore power - if they successfully block a second term for Obama, you can count on everything in the Ryan budget to come to fruiation! Privatize all social programs, except for the ones they disband, privatize our schools, our roads - WE will be definitely ruled by big Corporations, who will get whatever they want - they will be allowed to pollute at will! Not a pretty picture in their crystal ball! Think about it!
Newt has a point. Many illegals have been quietly earning a living in the underground economy for decades. At this point, they are as American as anyone. If someone has lived in the US for a long time, with a clean criminal record, and is not imposing a burden on the rest of society, common sense indicates we need a better solution than breaking up families. It doesn't have to be gold-plated with entitlements, but we don't have to relentlessly hunt them down and deport them either.
It was easy to think about this problem in terms of absolute terms -- right vs. wrong. Not so easy when you look at real cases.
This doesn't mean we make it easy for an unlimited number of NEW people to immigrate. A tough stance on immigration is best applied to those who have not yet arrived, or whose presence is currently imposing a burden on the rest of us.
Finally another voice of sensible reason. Gives me a bit of hope after reading so many ludicrous postings.
Sorry folks, but my feelings on this subject has always been," They need to respect MY country and enter it under OUR rules."
RULES. like rules that say you can call something discovered when there was people already living here. LOL!
Newt's down fall will be his mouth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone consider how much of this country was theirs befroe it was stolen from them?
id10t. . .
So now they come here and steal from us? What is this - payback???????????
Now, if they allowed their country to slip through their fingers back then , I darn sure will protect my country from being stolen back by them.
Of course we'll provide a humane path to legal residence. What's the alternative for millions of people that we, as a nation, have allowed to be here and, in many cases, have benefitted from in the form of low-wage cleaners, yard workers, childcare givers, etc. Will we round them up for "transport" the way Nazi Germany did its undesirables? If so, where do we send millions of people? This is a problem we allowed to happen here in America, and we have to solve it - in a humane fashion consistent with our values - right here.
Sorry, illegals are still illegal whether they have been in the United States for one day or fifty years. The US. used to have allowances for immigrant's entering the United States, what happened to that? I can remember A couple from England that had come to the US. They opened a business, took part in the school PTA programs, bought a home and were highly respected by the towns folk. The US, only allowed so many people from England to enter and stay. Why should it be any different for others? Not to mention the financial burden on the US tax payers.
Everyone make sure you're watching the markets when Obama gives his concession speech.
There is no difference in any of them. They are here ILLEGALLY. We need to get our military busy gathering all of them up and taking them to the border and watch their dumb ass walk home. They have robbed this country of billions of dollars and we are tired of it.
so you want a second trail of tears? that GREAT...
Newt really needs to come up for some air after sniffing the illegals butts for votes ?
NOT WITHOUT STIPULATIONS.....Yes, let them stay but ONLY if they become citizens who pay taxes. Those eligible for Social Security should only receive it IF they've paid into it. This isn't just for hispanics - it's for anyone desiring to live in the US.
do you know that Americans making over 250K don't pay SS for the amounts over 250K.
Yes but i don't think we have to worry about too many illegal immigrants making over 250k a year either.
A pathway to citizenship is the only right thing to do.... I have to bite my tongue to agree with newt. Hell even bush lite pushed this, one of the few things the man got right.
This along with the Dream Act, will go far in solving the problem.