So gang - did you hear the great news?

Seems Treasury has revised it's assessment of just how bad the auto bailout was.

You know how Obama said it'd only cost $14.3 billion? Yeah, not so much. See Treasury just said its cost NOW is $23 billion - that's cause the GM stock price sucks and is going to get worse, so look for further revisions.

Oh, and cause I know you libbies are all about fair taxes - GM gets to carry forward tax losses [Oh, you have not heard of that either, it's unprecedented]. So really the cost of this bailout is $35-40 billion, cause GM gets a pass on paying its taxes.

I know you will be outraged. Another corporate giant not paying its taxes.

Pretty great stuff right gang? Obama "saved" GM. Except - all he did was pump a bunch of cash into a failing company. It didn't work with Solyndra, it won't work here.

Unless - you all head out right now and buy some Volts. Come on 'Lean Forward.'

I'm actually a little disappointed. I would love to see Nancy debate Rick, I think it would help shape the image of the Republican party nicely. Also too, Nancy has taken a lot of abuse from people like Rick, I'd love to see her respond to their charges.

Yeh, no, you're right, Spankers, we should have let GM just go belly-up and put all those workers on unemployment and put all the retirees out on the street! Serves 'em right for being in a union, right?

Screw GM, right? It's not like they were ever part of that "American Exceptionalism" that y'all like to wax poetic about, right?

I think Rick needs to take a nap, he's showing signs of another "Senior Moment".

Noid - do you have any understanding of the bankruptcy process?

But let's put that aside - They did nothing to fix GM, just infused it with fat stacks of cash. So what benefit is that?

Gm sucked before the bailout, and it sucks after. But now it makes crap like the Volt, which won't sell and the Cruze, which is panned as a turgid POS.

So what now Noid? GM stock continues to decline. We gonna go all Frannie and Freddie and just keep bailing it out?

Great plan.

But let me ask - do retiree have a right to a pension? Is this like health care to you all?

If they do, even after the company is gone, then what don't they have a 'right' to?

Noid - $15Trillion and counting. What now brown cow?

Tom, you must not have heard about the senior gang my mother has in Ohio. They would rip your face off for comparing them to Rick Perry. (Although they do like the afternoon nap. )

Did I miss something or did this article have some mention of GM? Let's keep on topic and not use the smoke and mirrors to deflect what might be unpleasant.

If Pelosi did debate ol' Ricky she'd wipe the floor with him.

LOL -- Nice one Mrs. Pelosi!

Spanky-

But let's put that aside - They did nothing to fix GM, just infused it with fat stacks of cash. So what benefit is that?

Gm sucked before the bailout, and it sucks after. But now it makes crap like the Volt, which won't sell and the Cruze, which is panned as a turgid POS.

just so you know, you posts was full of deflections of the topic and then lies... first of all, GM wasn't just infused with cash, their whole business model was revamped to have a more attractive portfolio for customer delight. This has actually made their vehicles more viable for future purchases.... the second thing is that GM was allowed to renegotiate it's pension contracts, thus making the company leaner in terms of their capital expenditure...

So what now Noid? GM stock continues to decline. We gonna go all Frannie and Freddie and just keep bailing it out?

Great plan.

The reason why their stock is seriously suffering is primarily a result of the EU crises which was not anticipated by any reputable economist 2yrs ago, and I mean NONE, NADA, not ONE. So to blame the administration or their products for this is plain being ignorant to facts.

But let me ask - do retiree have a right to a pension? Is this like health care to you all?

If they do, even after the company is gone, then what don't they have a 'right' to?

Pensions and providing health care were the way the businesses handed out incentives 30yrs ago and all large companies did this, not just unionized companies.... it seems that most have done the wrong projections, so it's hurting their businesses in one way or the other - thus the switch to 401Ks and IRA accounts. Business's created this problem, not the government or the unions - they simply offered more than they could afford to pay, including GM, Ford and all other American car companies.

Noid - $15Trillion and counting. What now brown cow?

Tell your friends to close tax loop-holes and you'll see that $15trillion start to shrink... but who am I kidding, you guys are invested seeing your corporations get away with almost murder - in terms of tax write offs and safe havens to hide their stash.

Spanks: But let's put that aside - They did nothing to fix GM, just infused it with fat stacks of cash. So what benefit is that?

That's what Liberals term as "growing the economy". Just borrow hundreds of billions of dollars, and when jobs aren't created, just claim that they "saved" or "supported" millions of jobs. Libs - no accountability.

$15 trillion on the debt. To the Libs, that's just a number, just like it's a number in Greece, Italy, Ireland, and Spain.

Markets are still open. Did any OWStreeters even get close to a door on Wall Street?

Next the OWS misfits are going to shut down the NY trains. That should convince the people in New York that actually work for a living to join up with them.

Pelosi supports OWS. Maybe someone should mock her for it. Right after they mock her for her insider trading.

Tunde Akins: GM wasn't just infused with cash, their whole business model was revamped to have a more attractive portfolio for customer delight. . . . The reason why their stock is seriously suffering is primarily a result of the EU crises . . . Pensions and providing health care were the way the businesses handed out incentives 30yrs ago and all large companies did this, not just unionized companies.... it seems that most have done the wrong projections, . . .

You're not listening TA. The US taxpayer is out $35-$40 billion dollars because of Obama. Everyone else like Ford, Toyota, BMW and all the other manufactures in the US had the same cry story you outlined, they made it through without getting $35-$40 billion dollars from the taxpayers. I bet those other manufacturers sure wish they could add that money to their bottom lines. Instead they have to earn it rather than having it given to them.

Markets are still open. Did any OWStreeters even get close to a door on Wall "Street?"

Does Sean Hannity know you aren't happy about that, Smiff?

Buzzers: Does Sean Hannity know you aren't happy about that, Smiff?

Buzzy you sound like a good candidate for the OWS. Uneducated, poor, not too bright, always angry about something, easily led. Perfect match.

Pelosi would be walloped by Pelosi! She would clean his plate! Does he think he could get away with this? And what is the point in making a challenge to someone who is not running for the republican nomination? Rick is severely confused!

how small and petty for a PRESIDENTIAL hopeful to want to take on Congressional Opponents.

Perry is not even remotely ready for primetime,...and the twitter response? Really?

Buzzy you sound like a good candidate for the OWS. Uneducated, poor, not too bright, always angry about something, easily led. Perfect match.

This is the most perfect example of POT and KETTLE you are ever going to see. JAS trolled all day for the opportunity to post this tripe.

Hi Clara!!! I think Perry is just looking for people to debate to get some practice in. You know it's not his thing!

Punk, stay on topic. I have reported your post as No Value, and I and others will continue to do so until you stop this constant, tiring BS.

This thread is about Perry's debate challenge, I guess with Pelosi? WTF?

Who will Perry challenge next? Oh, oh! How about the House "Sergeant at Arms"? Awh hell, I doubt Perry could take him. Hmmmmm.......................

Which is exactly why she should agree to the debate.

Republicans are building a narrative around their party that would ultimately be to the benefit of Nancy Pelosi. The GOP is painting itself as, "The Party of Stupid." Any debate between Pelosi and Perry would most likely further that narrative.

If the default outlook for non-ideological middle of the road voters is that voting for a Republican is basically voting for a stupid person then Republicans will have a hard time winning national elections.

Good point, nisl. However, I hate the idea of Nancy lowering herself down to his level. Just a gut reaction with me.

Phinephancy - Don't think of it as Nancy lowering herself. Think of it as Nancy giving the Republicans more rope and a pamphlet on how best to tie a noose.

There is wisdom to the old saying, "If your opponent is self destructing, get out of the way!" But if your opponent is preparing to commit political suicide I don't necessarily think it a bad idea to tell them what a great idea it is.

And really, this is a great opportunity to brand the entire GOP as bunch of dolts. The GOP has already done most of the work, but a little encouragement via a debate between Perry and Pelosi could be a very good thing.

Then she should prove it, by doing the debate. If the liberals are scared of debating Rick Perry, what will they do when they have to debate someone that doesn't screw up 10 times a day.

The last time I looked Nancy was not running for President. Does this mean Rick is running for speaker of the house.

Leagues above and thats exactly why she should ignore him. Comparing a dollar bill and a penny can only decrease the perceived value of the dollar and can only increase the value of the penny. Perry need not be compared w/ anyone. His opponents in the gop have done him no damage, his fatal blows are ALL self inflicted. Just stay out of his way

Not to worry, Da Noid. Just remember that this is the man who brags about bad grades and not being the brightest of bulbs. Then, grab a cold one, put your feet up, and thank your lucky stars you are nothing like him.

Da Noid--I think you are fine--Perry is the one who is confused!

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

Tsk, tsk Northstar, that's using common sense. Something which is short supply in the GOP field. Hang your head down, now, and say you are sorry. Then, heads up and be happy you are a progressive!

Me too! Come from a long line of them. I was just laughing at the GOP (Rick Perry). Sorry if you misunderstood.

phinephancy,

I share with you the humor the GOP candidates provide on a daily basis.

As some one posted here a couple of weeks ago: "Would rather spend a evening with the liberal bloggers on FR than the angry, snide, elitist GOPTP posters."

So keep posting and giving us updates from the Senior gang in Ohio.

I'm with you Northstar & Pinephancy, but I guess you probably noticed that by my handle. My Daddy was a wonderful man and a Union Iron worker, so to heck with Loretta Lynn, I am very proud to be a Union Iron worker's daughter! yes, you can thank us for being able to watch TV and listen to the Radio for all these years. And of course a big thank you to those who were the first non-rescue personnel to help on Sept. 11!

Union baby, Tennessee,

I have seen your posts on FR. They warm the cockles of my heart. The DFL in my moniker is Democratic, Farmer, Labor. Democrats in MN are proud of our state's history in fighting for common interests of the family farms and labor by electing politicians that works for all of its citizens.

Hmmm, Dopey and Weepy? Weren't they two of the seven dwarfs?

I can see it now- Perry looses his cool, puts the slug on Nancy, and BOEHNER cries.

btorched has you there, 'counsellor'.

Btorched all you'll get from spankster is NADA. You see he is like most connie yellow streaks who never served their country in any capacity. They prefer to serve themselves at the expense of their fellow Americans. They are the paper pushers who value cleverness as opposed to creative thought and innovation..They have no "skin" in this game and have betrayed everything our fathers and grandfathers fought and died for. You have only to look at who is running for the republican nomination. We are becoming more like a banana republic with each passing year. The republicans will only accelerate the process.