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Subscribe to RSSNewt-mentum and what it tells us about the GOP race (and short-term memories)… Cain’s pregnant pause… Romney downplays expectations in Iowa… Perry’s plan to overhaul Washington… The Scott Walker recall battle begins… And a busy day in the Hawkeye State
NBC's Mark Murray and Domenico Montanaro discuss Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich's rise in the polls, who's-where on the campaign trail today, and the recall of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker.
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*** Newt-mentum: First it was Donald Trump who surged in the GOP primary polls (though he ultimately decided not to run). Then it was Michele Bachmann, then Rick Perry, and then Herman Cain. But now with Newt Gingrich becoming the latest Republican presidential candidate to see a surge in the polls, we may have reached the point where Fonzie is putting on his water skis. After all, it was just six months ago when Gingrich tripped all over Paul Ryan's budget plan (spurring an Iowan to tell him, “Why don’t you get out before you make a bigger fool of yourself”); when his purchases at Tiffany's became national news; when he took that widely criticized Greek cruise; and when his campaign team (including loyal aides who had been with him for a long time) quit en masse. But now, just a few months later, he has become the latest flavor of the month. A national CNN poll has Gingrich (at 22%) running neck and neck with Romney (at 24%). And a new Bloomberg poll of Iowa (conducted by Ann Selzer) has him essentially tied in a four-way contest in the Hawkeye State.
*** What all the volatility tells us: As Stu Rothenberg writes about Newt’s rise: “OK, I give up. I don’t know what the heck is going to happen in the Republican race.” This leaves just Ron Paul and Rick Santorum as the only GOP presidential candidates who haven’t enjoyed being the GOP flavor of the month. Good news for them: We have still have two months to go. Of course, all of this volatility underscores the extent to which GOP voters are undecided, the extent to which Mitt Romney hasn’t closed the deal with them (at least not yet), the extent to which the debates have come to matter in the modern TV era, and the extent to which things can still change before the contests begin in January. And Newt’s current rise underscores how much can change -- and how much people can forget -- in just a few months.
*** Cain’s pregnant pause: As for the past flavor of the month -- Herman Cain -- his pregnant pause in answering a simple question Libya shouldn’t come as a surprise. As the New York Times reminds us, Cain’s “comments about Libya came after a string of other provocative remarks about foreign policy and related issues. Those include a statement published Monday in which Mr. Cain suggested that most American Muslims are extremists; a contradictory answer about waterboarding during a Republican presidential primary debate on Saturday focusing on foreign policy; and his statement that if Al Qaeda or another terrorist group demanded, he would consider authorizing the release of every detainee at Guantánamo Bay in return for the release of one American soldier.” In addition, Cain has frequently said that he’ll rely on his advisers to help him make foreign-policy decisions.
GOP presidential hopeful Herman Cain badly flubbed a question about the war in Libya asked by the editorial board of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.
*** Romney downplays expectations in Iowa: Romney is planning for another return to Iowa on Nov. 23, NBC’s Garrett Haake reported yesterday. But during a fundraiser in Florida, per the St. Petersburg Times, he downplayed his chances in the Hawkeye State. “Romney told the crowd his campaign calculus was that he could spend nothing [in Iowa] and come in fourth or spend a bit and finish second or third… Romney predicted a Tea Party favorite would win Iowa and that he would take New Hampshire, according to interviews with six people in the audience. Romney told the crowd he would seal the nomination by then winning Florida's Republican contest.” But, as we’ve written before, here’s the problem for Romney: He can’t have Iowa both ways, especially with polls showing him at or essentially tied for the lead there. If he campaigns there (as he’s doing again on Nov. 23), and particularly if he runs TV ads in the state, a second-, third-, or fourth-place finish isn’t going to cut it. As Ricky Bobby said, “If you ain’t first, you’re last.”
*** Perry’s plan to overhaul Washington: Previewing an address he will deliver this morning in Eastern Iowa, Perry last night promised to "uproot" the three branches of government and institute wide-reaching reforms throughout the federal apparatus, NBC’s Carrie Dann reports. "Tomorrow, I'm going to unveil a plan to uproot all three branches of government and overhaul Washington," he said in an address to the Scott County GOP, adding that his plan will "touch each branch of government, because they each have contributed to the demise of America." Perry, Dann adds, said his reform proposal will target "lifetime federal judges who arrogantly rewrite our laws from the bench," as well as the "permanent bureaucracy of the executive branch, which thwarts the will of the American people to advance a big government agenda." And he pledged to outline "dramatic reforms for a Congress that not only spends too much but is IN Washington too much."
*** The Scott Walker recall battle begins: Just when you thought the political battles in the Industrial Midwest were over -- first after those state Senate recalls last summer in Wisconsin and then after last week’s referendum over Ohio’s anti-collective-bargaining law -- think again. At midnight last night, Wisconsin Democrats started their drive to recall Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R). In order to trigger a recall election, Democrats need to collect more than 540,000 signatures in 60 days. Well, Wisconsin Republicans have launched an effort to report petition fraud, they say. And last night -- during Green Bay’s “Monday Night Football” game – Walker aired a TV ad against the recall. “Wisconsin’s best days are yet to come,” Walker says to the camera. “It won’t happen overnight, but we are on our way.” The screen then flashes, “Progress: Yes; Recall: No.”
*** On the 2012 trail: It’s another busy day in the Hawkeye State: Cain, Perry, Santorum, and Gingrich are all in Iowa… And Romney discusses jobs and the economy in Columbia, SC.
*** Tuesday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up (with guest host Chris Cillizza): Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO) on why nobody likes Congress… Senate strategy session with NRSC’s Rob Jesmer and DSCC’s Guy Cecil… The latest on Occupy Wall Street protestors being moved out of the park with NBC’s Mara Schiavocampo… Washington Post’s Eli Saslow on his book “Ten Letters” about President Obama’s correspondence with people across the country… Hotline’s Reid Wilson on the official start of the recall effort against Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI)… And more 2012 news with AP’s Kasie Hunt, Washington Post’s Perry Bacon and Club for Growth President and former Rep. Chris Chocola (R-IN).
*** Tuesday’s “Jansing & Co.” line-up: MSNBC’s Chris Jansing interviews National Journal’s Major Garrett and Time’s Jay Newton-Small (on Cain’s brain freeze and Newt’s rise in the polls), as well as Dem Rep. Loretta Sanchez.
*** Tuesday’s “MSNBC Live with Thomas Roberts” line-up: MSNBC’s Thomas Roberts interviews former Gabby Giffords intern Daniel Hernandez.
*** Tuesday’s “NOW with Alex Wagner” line-up: MSNBC’s Alex Wagner’s panel includes Wes Moore, Jedediah Bila, Michael Scherer, John Heilemann, and Michael Steele.
*** Tuesday’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” line-up: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell interviews GQ’s Devin Gordon (on the magazine’s interview with Cain), Dem Rep. Xavier Becerra, Dem Rep. Elijah Cummings, two guests on the Keystone XL matter, and Romney foreign-policy adviser Richard Williamson.
Countdown to Iowa caucuses: 49 days
Countdown to New Hampshire primary: 56 days
Countdown to South Carolina primary: 67 days
Countdown to Florida primary: 77 days
Countdown to Nevada caucuses: 81 days
Countdown to Super Tuesday: 112 days
Countdown to Election Day: 357 days
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Oh Boy, here we go again. I see the GOP/Tea Party is sending in the clowns.
Now we have Newt ‘the Oaf’ Gingrich as the ‘frontrunner’. There are more changes in this Presidential race than a ping-pong game. So let’s YET AGAIN explore the fact that the GOP/Tea Party is NOT SERIOUS about their Presidential nominee.
What I find hard to believe is that last week, Newt the Oaf was sitting at 3% in the polls. So we are supposed to believe that the problems that Hermie the Clown is having remembering what went on in Lybia as well as his Gloria Allred problem that The Oaf will rise 20 points?
That does NOT pass the giggle test. No way, no how.
Let’s look at this campaign Newt the Oaf is running. It seems to me that Newt the Oaf is scamming conservatives out of their money. Yes, that’s right – I believe that this campaign is a SCAM and the Conservatives are falling for it.
Here the skinny – Newt the Oaf doesn’t have a campaign staff, as they all quit on him a few months ago, citing that the Oaf was more interested in hawking his wares than running a Presidential campaign. So tell me – how does this Oaf run a campaign if there is no staff to man the campaign?
The short answer – there IS NO CAMPAIGN.
This ‘campaign’ is an excuse for Newt the Oaf to hawk his 24 books and CDs and videos (I bet they are all $9.95 and if you act today, you will get one extra copy absolutely free – after paying for handling charges). How can we forget the Oaf blowing off Conservative gatherings to take his 3rd wife (who is kinda hot in a Stepford sort of way) to Greece on a cruise?
The Oaf has no policy position. He has not plan. He sits up there and ‘wings’ what he is going to say, punctuated by his ‘commercials’ encouraging people to ‘pick up his book’.
So can anyone explain to me how the Oaf with no campaign staff, no policy positions, and an inventory of books, tapes and CDs that he is openly hawking, is SERIOUS about his campaign?
Conservatives, you are being played.
Punked.
Hoodwinked.
Bamboozled.
Shyster-ed.
And you Conservatives are FALLING FOR IT, hook, line and sinker.
A closing note: I normally do not use colourful adjectives in lieu of proper names to describe the people whom I am writing about. In this case, since they are not serious about the Presidential Nomination process anyway, I have every right to not be serious about addressing these idiots as the knuckleheads they are.
As a NON-Conservative, I haven’t laughed so hard – or so much – since the first Police Academy movie came out (the plotline in this show is WAAAY funnier than that movie).
The bottom line – the GOP/Tea Partyers are giving away the Presidency to President Obama, pretty much guaranteeing him a 2nd term and there is NOTHING Conservatives can do about it.
You heard it here first.
With friends like this, who needs enemies????
Good one guys! ;o))
Watching this hot mess reminds me of the song; 'You Spin Me Right Round'..
PS: *waves to Pietro* good to see you my friend! ;o)
PPS: When is Newsvine going to address the technical issues on First Read?
First, the 'ignore author' feature hasn't worked in almost a week & now the edit feature appears to have taken a 'dump along with it!
1. UNDER GOP POVERTY RATES WOULD DOUBLE:
The GOP/Koch Party has been very loud about how they want to get rid of all our safety nets.
A new study by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities "shows that in the absence of the social safety net, the poverty rate would rise to 28.6 percent".
"Social safety net programs, as defined by the CBPP, include unemployment insurance, Social Security, veterans' benefits, housing assistance, and a raft of other measures, including half a dozen initiatives included in the 2009 Recovery Act".
2. WHILE INCREASING OUR POVERTY RATE, GOP MAKES POVERTY INESCAPABLE:
GOP wants to do away with student federal loans. Gingrich and Paul called them an 'absurdity' and a 'total failure'. They want to disempower our young people by outpricing higher education.
GOP wants to take away rights to organize, undo the minimum wage, cut rights to workplace safety and rights to redress.
GOP wants to get rid of Education, Headstart, food stamps, police, fire, nurses, teachers and first responders.
GOP wants to give polluters total freedom to dump cancer-causing chemicals into our air and water. While making us sick,
GOP wants to put healthcare back in the hands of insurance companies.
GOP wants to repeal Wall Street reform and lower taxes on corporations and the super-rich.
GOP is against all forms of government aid and business regulation.
GOP wants to control women's health.
GOP is busy paving the way for $Big Money to buy up our government, to disenfranchise and disempower us:
GOP is removing our voices from the democratic process, eg. by replacing local elected officials with unqualified Managers chosen by state governors.
GOP is keeping unlimited campaign funding secret and has voted twice against disclosure.
GOP is very busy making it hard to vote.
Republican congressionals pledged to put the interests of the super-rich - who have tripled their incomes since the 1980's - first.
A vote for GOPtp is a vote to unravel our democratic process, to dismantle the constitution, to dismantle voting rights, to create a feudal system like nothing we have seen before.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/10/366025/gop-candidates-student-loans-failure/
I was thinking of "Circles in the Sand". I am to the point that this circus train will keep going to Iowa when it will derail.
God help us all if this is what we are reduced to. Who is supporting these bombastic, ideological ignorant fools. Where has the middle of the GOP gone to, have they lost their collective minds?. Are any of you embarrassed by the likes of Perry, Cain, Gingrich, Bachman and what comes out of their mouths?
And what is wrong with this country that we tolerate these people even thinking they are remotely qualified to be dog catcher let alone the President of the United States?.
Yesterday's interview by the Milwaukee Sentinel with Herman Cain, which his campaign had requested, is so painful and embarrassing to watch. How could anyone with a functional brain cell support such an individual?
Please conservatives, find yourselves someone decent and intelligent to represent you and spare the rest of us from being embarrassed around the world.
The Republican show has definitely jumped the shark. We may have reached the point where Fonzie is putting on his water skis. Oh yeah.
Let’s hope that many of the Radical Right running in 2012 get voted out. The worst Republican nightmare is a Democrat voting and that is what they are trying to suppress.
Good one, Pietro. They both are running scams.
I saw a report on MSNBC yesterday where a group called Draft Herman Cain was collecting campaign donations to "draft" Cain as a presidential candidate despite Cain having already declared he was running. Seems the Draft Cain folks kept the money for themselves.
Good morning, everyone --
and a special welcome back to Pietro. Great post, sir.
And now for a little off-topic indulgence -- news from the Heartland ...
Of course, you already know that the Packers thumped the Vikings last night, 45-7. I do believe they've finally slipped into second gear.
Just wait for third.
And, perhaps lesser known, at midnight last night, the RECALL of SCOTT WALKER officially began -- Madison style --
-- i.e., with pajama parties.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/elections/walker-foes-kick-off-recall-with-pajama-parties-midnight-madness/article_8261002e-0ee3-11e1-8c4a-001cc4c03286.html
And the recallers wasted no time --
And still lesser known, recalls are also underway for three Republican state senators who weren't eligible for recall last summer.
Even if Democrats don't get Scott Walker, they can still flip the Senate officially, and then he's still as good as done.
Well, maybe not that good.
See you later, and again, welcome back Pietro.
Everybody that sees my posts on a regular basis knows I’m pretty much into humor and am amused easily by the garbage the politicians throw out there on a non-stop basis.
However- having seen the clip of Cain’s ‘Libya’ response, I’m not in much of a humorous mood today. I’m downright angry.
I’m angry that there are so many people in this country that would promote such a damned-dumb dunce in thinking either we are that stupid as voting citizens, or because they can’t control their childish hatred of President Obama. That latter group includes people on right-wing radio, Fox ‘News’, the jackals in those ‘debate’ audiences, blog posters like Joanna Smith and No Jo (hell, even No JO’s screen name says it all, and she’s been using it since BEFORE Obama was even elected to the job) and many, many others. The same goes for completely unqualified people like Perry and Bachmann, too. Yes- they are all a joke, but at the same time, the joke’s not really funny at all.
I cabbaged this one off another post from yesterday regarding nukes:
Paul-Florida “Here's the real question, why did Obama let Iran build it in the first place? Maybe he didn't want to deal with it and just kicked the can to the next President. You know dealing with Iran is a hard job.”
….And it reminded me to now ask: Who allowed Russia to have nukes? Who allowed China to have nukes? Who allowed India and Pakistan to have them? Israel? Others?? Not easy to answer, but everyone wants to skewer Obama for Iran (almost) having nukes. Go figure, huh?
Now- off the ol’ soapbox long enough to say to Spanky: Not sure where you’ve been, and I really haven’t missed you too much, but- whatever has you away from the blogs, I hope it has nothing to do with personal or family misfortune of any sort.
I mean it, ‘counselor’.
Terrific posts, Backhouse and DBO.
DBO, ironically, Paul ignores that it was President Bush who called Iran part of the Axis of Evil, invaded Iraq which empowered Iran and Bush ignored Iran's nuclear build up.
Top of the mornin to you Gingerbread Mamma! ;o)
My husband hadn't heard or seen the clip when he got home last night.
NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams played it & when hubby finished picking his jaw up off the table, he backed up the clip to make sure he was certain of what he had just witnessed...
I'm certain all of the Cain
suckerssupporters are PROUD to have sent this a$$ campaign contributions! lolPS: Can someone explain to me WHAT is UP with Hermie speaking in the third person nonsense? It's most disturbing!
Cain is Toast. I thought Perry was the Gaffe King but Cain is our new leader. Forget all his "girlfriends", his own stupidity and lack of knowledge has done him in.
And now we have Newt, the GOP's new flavor of the week. It just keeps getting funnier and funnier. I love it.
Obama in 2012.
Your right Pietro, btw welcome back. Newt is in it for the money, but so are all the other tea people republican candidates with the exception of Romney. His problem is he wants to be President so bad he'll say what ever thinks will get him elected and nobody likes that. What amazes me is all these tea people republicans giving their hard earned money to these candidates. "A fool and his money will soon part".
Speaking of the Fonz -- did anyone else see Henry Winkler judging Iron Chef America Sunday night?
The talking heads are dismayed, they shake their carefully-coifed manes, and share their disbelief with all of America. Joe Paterno has sinned. Joe Paterno, that towering icon of all that is right with American sport has sinned. America has been victimized. We have been led down a garden path, and oh yeah, by the way, there might be a kid or two who suffered a bit. But it's nothing compared to the pain WE feel as victims.
WE would have seen that unbelievable spectacle in the Penn State shower room and acted without hesitation. WE would have run over and torn Sandusky limb from limb. WE would have reported this horrible incident to the campus police, the proper authorities, and WE would have contacted the media. WE are shocked, because WE are heroes, and WE are strong, always when WE aren't there.
We are shocked to learn that for 13 years something has been very wrong at Penn State. We must have forgotten the scandals at U.S.C. and Ohio State. We must have forgotten the football player at OU who was firing a machine gun in a dormitory. We must be unaware of steroids and cocaine in college and pro sports - all the sports. Well yeah, we might remember a little something about that, but this other thing....well, that's rape.
But when we think about this a little more - if we think about it at all - somewhere back in our minds there are other tales of rape. Maybe a pro quarterback or a linebacker. Maybe we even heard something about a murder here and there, maybe armed robbery, maybe sexual assault. Maybe a boxer, a sprinter, a baseball player. Yes, there's a great deal to remember.
From those memories, we might conclude that there is something very wrong in the world of sport. We would be right, but we would be missing a much larger picture. It is not just sport, it is not even the crimes themselves that are the common denominator. No, the common denominator is money and power and it pervades and infects every institution we know. It is pervasive in government, in the vaunted halls of free enterprise, in our schools; everywhere. It touches us in our lives each and every day, and we pretend otherwise.
Silence is golden. That person who steps forward to expose corruption is not a hero. That guy who asks why things just don't quite seem to be on the up and up is not a hero. He's not brave. He's not doing the right thing. No, that person is a troublemaker. How dare he upset the status quo? Doesn't he know you have to go along to get along? Things would be better if he would just shut up. My paycheck is at stake.
How did Bernie Madoff happen? How about Corzine and MF Global? Goldman-Sachs? Kitty Genovese? The housing bubble? John Doolittle? Government hammers? Corrupt police? Secrets sold to foreign governments?
Those things don't happen in vacuums. WE know about them. WE turn our heads and retreat into silence. WE aren't heroes. WE are victims. It's so much safer.
Joe Paterno was very, very wrong and he is paying. He is no longer an icon for everything that is right with American sport. That was always an illusion anyway. Perhaps he is an icon for everything that is wrong with America.
Hey Pietro:
Sounds exactly like when I watched you Obama zombies looking at your future Boy King during his election campaign. You were all so wide eyed, like under a spell and first and foremost you and your ilk did not want to know anything about him, nor did you want the press to vet him. You had to have your 1st Liberal (Marxist) Black president. Look at where we are now.... Death Spiral.... Socialism creeping in OWS (Flea Baggers), the ENTITLEMENT generation.
Liberals you are being played again:
Rev Right
Bill Ayers
Moochille Obama - $10,000,000 in Vacations and counting
Rohlm Emanuel
Eric Holder
Solyndra
Fast & Furious - Many people Dead with many more to die if the media (Media arm of the Obama administration) reports it.
And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on,
Before you cast a stone, look inward. But I know that's impossible for Liberals/Marxists/Socialists/Communists.
I did hear somewhere on MSNBC yesterday, that Newt had advised Mitch Daniels to run for president. He told him it would help his book sales and increase the amount that Daniels could charge in speaking fees. I think this sums up Newt's outlook on running for office - personal wealth.
Thanks Jody,
Did you listen to NPR this morning?
GOP is proposing reducing school lunch standards by increasing sodium, increasing fried foods like french fries and calling the sauce on pizza 'vegetables'.
This is the result of the Salt Lobby and others.
Not one story today about the 60 minutes story of insider trading and corruption in Congress?
No stories of yet more rape victims thanks to Occupy Wall Street?
As fun as it is to read about GOP hopefuls in an election months away, I think I'll pass until something interesting is written
GBM, my thoughts exactly--most of these GOPers wouldn't qualify to be dog catcher. Yet here they are, parading around and republicans are jumping on their crazy-wagon.
Anna Molly, wondered how the "pajama parties" went last night. It was mentioned on MSNBC. Thanks for keeping us posted!
David Walker, another fine one.
In case you missed it Tom - I officially designated Newt's flavor to be 'Schewddy Balls;! ;o)
Evil proliferates when good men stand by and do nothing about it. That grad student said he did stop the attack in the shower, and reported it to Paterno and even followed up with Curly, it wasn't enough. Good post.
Anna Molly,
Here in MN , the news coverage of WI recall is a hot topic.
I heard that someone jumped the gun with a filing of a bogus filing in court . This gave Walker, under the law, the ability to raise unlimited funds to defend himself. Is that correct?
Keep everyone on FR posted as the story unfold.....
The latest flavor of the month ? So much for credibility in journalism ! MSDNC has revealed its political bias in a very ugly way !!
For those of you who have been asleep or otherwise not paying attention, Newt Gingrich has been consistently strong in the debates with his replies. U.S. citizens have noticed and many are looking more seriously now at his proposals.
Expect the onslaught of verbal and written attacks to flow. The venom directed at Gingrich will be strong and frequent. He does, afterall, appear to be headed upward .... possibly to the top.
Backhouse, no I didn't hear that about school lunches; they are shameless. Doesn't surprise me, though, when GOPTPers like Sarah Palin mock First Lady Michelle Obama's "healthy eating" program.
Hello pot, meet the kettle-given the republicans have been shooting automatic fire at Obama on every stupid thing under the sun since the day he declared his bid, I think Jim you should be careful in that glass house your throwing stones in.
Newt Gingrich isn't the choice of the establishment because of all the issues he has had in the past, no doubt he is knowledgeable, there is some doubt that he wouldn't sell his soul to iran for a profit.
Actually, Jim, what I noticed about Newt was the way he avoided answering questions at the debates. I don't think Newt is going to appreciate the media attention he will be getting on his flip/flops and he record.
Oh, yes, it is. And the misleading ads have already started.
The bigger fear is that they will trick people into signing the phony petition, which means that those people could not sign a real recall petition. Clever, in a really perverted sort of way.
What horrifies me in all of this is that there are many people who hear about these dirty tricks and just shrug their shoulders -- we have become immune to the kind of evil that slowly but surely is killing our democracy.
"Before you cast a stone, look inward. But I know that's impossible for Liberals/Marxists/Socialists/Communists.:
Before you do WHAT??
Gingerbreadmomma...
You said a lot of nothing...
Sorry to inform you, Newt has forgotten more about foreign relations and stimulating the economy than our current POTUS knows. Let's not forget...Obama was a junior senator who was AWOL during senate votes a large percentage of the time. Oh, and let's not forget his prior job of community organizer. What part of these made him qualified to lead a country?? That's right, none of them. BTW, hate to inform you as well...Obama only leads 1/2 of the country...the rest of us are his "enemies", his words, not mine. I'd love to see a true debate...no time limits, no politically motivated moderators, just a good 'ol debate between Newt and Obama. Newt would mop the floor with him!
I remember during the WI Senate recall elections and the righties sent fliers out with the wrong date to vote printed on them!
Amen... Anna Molly... Amen!
If the right can't win on their merits they'll LIE - CHEAT & STEAL by any means available!
Oh wow....Oh Wow......Oh Wow
The funny thing about that Cain interview is that he knew that if Obama had a policy regarding Libya, he had to be against it automatically -- even if he didn't have a clue what the policy was. The rest of the clowns in this circus follow the same "principle" of opposing Obama no matter what. If Obama was against repeatedly banging one's head against a brick wall, all the GOP presidential candidates and their tea bag constituents would be in hospital emergency rooms suffering from serious concussions.
Anna Molly -- Let's hope the good people of Wisconsin are successful in their petition drive! BTW those Packers are on a roll!! Keep us updated.
Amazing, is it not, the utter contempt democrats have for election results?
".....................
So, despite a really horrendous start, Gingrich is up in the polls. Looks like all those debates really DO inform the primary voters- who seem to have little or no interest in how people spend their OWN money. The media made so much of Gingrich's Tiffany account-yet actively chastised people who complained about the amount of taxpayer money expended on the Obama's lavish lifestyle.
Go figure that voters tune the media out.
.................................
Many, if not most, of the Occupy Obamavilles have been cleared out- turns out the filth, degeneracy, and crime became more than most people could take. Who have they hurt? Small businesses
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/1110/Small-business-owners-tell-Occupy-Wall-Street-You-re-hurting-the-99-percent
Oh- by the way, there was a protest at city hall Monday night- Wall Street area small business owners and residents- who want that Obamavilles closed down.
.......................
Obama is in Hawaii- on "official" business, (that means WE pay for the trip). Part of his "official"agenda was a golf game, (naturally)- with a sex offender.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68358.html
Seems he's been good buddies with this guy since his prep school days- the fact that he was arrested for a sex offense? Does not matter. He's Obama's good buddy! And a heck of a golfer!
can'takeno,
You have won a major prize.
Not one iota of truth in anything you just wrote to Gingerbread Momma.
drive-by
Not really that hard to figure. Aside from your lack of historical understanding, events / culpability / etc, one thing stands out - none of the above are crazy religious zealots that desire an apocolypse in order establish Shariaworld.
None of the countries have ever used the bomb or threatened to wipe countries off the face of the Earth. They are sane - the prospect of mutual destruction is a determent - Iran doesn't care. Iran thinks nothing of suicide and is the largest state sponsor of terrorism!
Obama even realizes this threat and vowed that Iran would not be allowed to get it.
It is simply appalling to anyone with any common sense what a, epic, gutless failure Obama has been.
While Congress has a combined wealth of $2Billion, Senator Sessions (R-Alabama) says we cannot afford to feed the hungry with food stamps. Norquistians fight relentlessly for the Bush tax cuts that cost us $11.6Million per HOUR. They fight for new tax cuts for corporations and continue to protect Big Oil subsidies for companies making the most profits ever.
You'reright, bob. Obama was going to "charm" them out of their nuclear program.
That went well, did it not?
By the way- whether posting as "Navy" or "back house"- the posts are rubbish.
Here's the real story on the school lunch program
http://www.swjournalist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147:gop-says-healthy-school-lunch-program-too-expensive&catid=35:nation&Itemid=54
Combine that with the amount of fraud in the program- here in New Jersey, we have a school board president, and many of the members, on their way to jail- seem they "accidentally" enrolled their children in the program- some, years after they had graduated- despite being ineligible under income guidelines. Like, ten times the income allowed.
This did not just cost the local school board thousands, but the state and federal government, as well. Seems that each child enrolled in the program attracts a combined seven thousand from state and federal governments.
This went on for years.
The two whistle blowers were fired- and are currently suing the school board- so, that will also cost the taxpayers, as they WILL win the suit, and will get compensated.
The road to hell may or may not be paved with good intentions- but it's a lead pipe cinch the road to fraud is so paved- and taxpayers are the ones always paying the freight.
p>
This GOP race is so far past the shark jump, we're looking at Joannie divorcing Chachi.
Feisty =
Cain speaking in the "THIRD PERSON" is a Narcissistic trait and he is definitely a Narcissistic.
Obama in 2012.
Attention right-wingers:
Don't let this happen. The left-wing, libbie, Commie, Marxist socialists (did I forget anything?) are trying to destroy American sport.
Boycott pro football. Why? It's a damned left-wing conspiracy, that's why. Who won the MVP at the Super Bowl last year? Aaron Rodgers, that's who. We have learned that MVP actually stands for Mean Vicious Pinko. That's right.
When we thought Aaron Rodgers was playing college football, our undercover agents discovered that he was being indoctrinated at - are you ready for this - the University of California. NO!, not just any California university - the one at BERKELEY!!!!! Berkeley, California, the very anchor of the left coast.
This mediocre quarterback is now playing for the Green Bay Packers. Get this, he's the team's UNION REPRESENTATIVE. A union for Limbaugh's sake!!!!!
Stop watching pro football. Check back for further information on this. We are now learning that unions may be infiltrating baseball and basketball.
To all gop'rs sit down your not going to like this but...NEWT,BACHMAN,CAIN,SANTORUM,AND THE REST WILL....never.never,never,never,never,NEVER,NEVER,NEVER BE PRESIDENT ! EVER!!!BTW, ISN'T IT A BIT OF A COINCIDENCE that santorum's name sounds awfully close to the word"sanatorium"? just saying.........
MAXX - Whatever. Is it just a bit of coincidence that "Obama" sounds awfully close to..........? Just saying.
Amazing, the right calls President Obama "gutless failure" despite the fact that it was his administration that tracked down and eliminated Osama bin Laden along with many other successes, so many things that prove he is anything but a failure. Little bob numbers meant to say Pres Bush was an "epic, gutless failure" but then that wouldn't fit the right-wing talking points which proves that you really can fool some people all the time.
Can anybody tell me with a straight face that Obama without a telepromptor would have a chance against Newt in a debate, but of course the moderator would be fair. Probably someone like Keith Olberman?
Oh Hallelujer, the Ignore feature is WORKING!
and, yes, am, I saw the fonz and his discerning palate on Iron Chef; which is funny, cuz' that's not normally a show I watch; but when working on my daughter's hair,...she gets to pick the programming. I really liked the nouveau twist on Thanksgiving.
Millionaires receiving $Billions in Federal Benefits:
Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) reports "On average, Americans earning more than $1 million annually receive a combined $1.6 billion in federal benefits and $28.5 billion in tax credits annually",
From Coburn's "Subsidies of the Rich and Famous."
We are shocked to learn that for 13 years something has been very wrong at Penn State. We must have forgotten the scandals at U.S.C. and Ohio State. We must have forgotten the football player at OU who was firing a machine gun...
Good post Mr. Walker. I love sports, football, basketball primarily in the collegiate ranks. That said, I agree collegiate sports, namely football programs put money, prestige and power over common decency and the rule of law.
In my opinion Penn State should have their football program stripped with no chance of it returning. Obviously those in charge can not understand that they have lost the trust of the public. Any and everyone who covered up this horrific conspiracy should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
Unfortunately crimes and bad behaviour happens at every university. In the defense of some fans, they are not aware of it. However for others the administrators, the coaches they know what happens, they look the other way.
I don't let the fans off the hook either, some of them hear about the illegal payoffs, the cars, the assaults, the sexual misconduct and they look the other way. They feel it is a small price to pay to have a winning program.
In my case, bred in Nebraska where cornhusker football is a religion. I was a willing cult member, until I experienced college life with a football roommate. I saw the pay offs, the leased cars, the free goodies offered by the alumnis both of the material and carnal nature. I saw a friend corrupted by the system, his ego stroked to feel that he deserved the special treatment. The belief that they were above the law or didn't have to play by the rules.
Instead of the adults stepping in they do not and encourage the behaviour. Case in point, the good Dr. Tom Osborn that stoic, family man and coach. During the 90's while NU was 3peating the future Republican congressman and now NU chancellor let the players run wild in the community. The good Dr. Tom let them play even after run ins with the police, the reported assualts the beat downs, the weapon charges.
I have not been able to root for the Nebraska Cornhuskers for almost twenty years, but was happy to see them beat Penn State on Saturday.
Penn State is but the most extreme case. It is in fact pretty sickening how our sports culture allows this behavior and society and the fans look the other way. We should be ashamed that our society has allowed these scandals to take place.
Backhoser,
Why do you lie? Why do you continually misrepresent known facts in an effort to deceive others?
We have shown you empirical data that the 2003 Bush tax cuts generated more money in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 than Clinton's best year of 2000 .
Here it is again:
Clinton’s best year, 2000, generated revenue of $2.025 trillion.
(After Bush’s tax cuts in 2003 had time to take effect:)
Bush’s revenue in 2005 was $2.153 trillion. 6% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2006 was $2.406 trillion. 16% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2007 was $2.568 trillion. 21% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2008 was $2.524 trillion. 20% above Clinton’s best.
So how again, does that tax cut stuff “cost” trillions in revenue?
[Source was OMB, Historical Tables, Table 1.3, 25-MAR-11]
Drive-By,
I couldn't agree more. Perry's plan to "uproot all three branches of government" infuriates me. So he'll be the Czar instead of the President? Such arrogance!
More arrogance. Perry, Bachmann and Cain all say that God told them to run for president. So which one did God "pick" to win? Do they even begin to understand the lunacy of their statements?
Geo,
What's with this nonsense that Obama can't debate without a teleprompter? Some right-winger dreamed that up and you--in your infinite wisdom--didn't realize that it was meant as a barb; you thought it was the truth. Obviously you don't remember Obama's debate performances from the 2008 election. . . .
Gingrich is the best thing the republicans have going. He has some skeletons in his closet but so do most of our "representatives". I have yet to see photos of his privates floating around the internet but who knows...
Further, he's pretty saavy and he has been doing this for a while. He is easily the most presidential of the motley crew. It would be a mistake to write him off so fast. He could debate president Obama pretty good, I would be willing to bet a paycheck.
I actually saw this day coming a long time ago after watching Perry addressing the crowd at a farm with one leg up on a hay bail and listening to the 999 plan from Cain. The rest of the "contenders" were bigger losers than that even.
It was just a matter of time for the others to go down in flames. Keep you eye on Gingrich because this isn't his first rodeo.
Collapsed posts so early....hmmmm.
LoL Don't you know, David? Multi-millionaires are allowed to join unions. Not so much for average folks.
But isn't that commie pinko Rodgers something else? Just WoW.
Would you mind terribly much if I don't stop watching? ;-)
Bob,
If you google it, you will see many links showing that Bush Tax Cuts cost $11.6Million per hour.
For example:
"Tax cuts for America’s top earners are costing everyone, every hour of every day, a new report from the National Priorities Project finds. Tax cuts for the wealthiest five percent of Americans
cost the U.S. Treasury $11.6 million every hour, according to the National Priorities Project. America’s top earners will get an average tax cut of $66,384 in 2011.."
www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/14/tax-cuts-for-wealthy-americans_n_1011601.html11..."
Oh, no, no joe. We here in Wisconsin love elections so much that we want more and more of them.
As many as it takes.
Jody,
"DBO, ironically, Paul ignores that it was President Bush who called Iran part of the Axis of Evil, invaded Iraq which empowered Iran and Bush ignored Iran's nuclear build up."
Well it seems that Obama is now the President and has been for over 3 years. But I understand Jody that what ever happens that's bad for the country right now is Bush's fault, yeah, we get it and it's pretty old, but if that's all you have, work with it-Right?
Same principle to you Drive-by, can't comment to my post so post it somewhere else. I don't know why we didn't stop Russia, do you? How about your two live in the present and ask yourself, what WILL Obama do? It's pretty sad that the nuke issue is a Democrat/Republican thing.
Then I say why can't the Democrats do something intelligent like actually buying tickets to the game and sending petition signature collectors to the game?
Get smart. Be bold. Think outside the box. Be aggressive.
Backhouse,
I realize you have no understanding of static vs. dynamic / elasticity, etc., thus do not understand the lie, the manipulation of liberal cites, but do you have no common sense, no facility at all to reconcile ....
How can 21% greater revenue "cost" $11.6 million an hour?
You can not be this naturally obtuse, it has to be blind will, or you are simply a liar.
Which is it?
Anna Molly:
For some time now, I have believed that Steve Young was the best quarterback to play the game. I've had to change that a bit. I don't know if Aaron Rodgers can continue to play at this level, but I have never seen anyone better.
It goes like this now. Steve Young is the best left-handed quarterback to play the game. Aaron Rodgers is the best right-handed quarterback to play the game.
Now, if there were a category for UNDERhanded........well, your current governor is the MOST underhanded I have seen in quite some time. I sure hope you can sack that bastard.
Oh, yes ... that's a GREAT idea ... in theory.
But with a season ticket waiting list of more than 70,000, it may be a while. LoL
>>Anna Molly:
Oh, no, no joe. We here in Wisconsin love elections so much that we want more and more of them.
As many as it takes.<<
What a perfectly liberal point of view. Keep spending my money until you get the result you want.
Bob 180:
I'm so glad I found you. I thought maybe you had run away with your tail between your legs yesterday when I asked you to show a single regulation that was causing those job losses you wrote about.
But here you are. Lucky for me, eh? Now you can tell us about those job-killing regulations.
LoL Your whole post is spot-on, but I especially love this part.
You certainly got THAT right.
Bob, you are defending the Indefensible.
Instead of blaming me for citing the facts: Why not call Huffington Post, and all the other newspapers and folks on both sides of the aisles - that report definitively that:
The Bush Tax Cuts Cost us $1.8Million every hour, of every day.
David and Anna,
Unions in right to work states are fine, unions in union states are those state's problems (just don't ask for bailouts), but public unions are a corruption.
I am not forced to buy a football ticket, I am not forced to support a union and have my money used against me and my political belief as I am with public unions.
Why is this so difficult for you guys to understand?
And EXACTLY how democracy works.
What a perfectly conservative view.
Since I pay taxes, and plenty of them, it's MY money, too, just as much as it is yours.
bob-1805084
Backhoser,
Why do you lie? Why do you continually misrepresent known facts in an effort to deceive others?
We have shown you empirical data that the 2003 Bush tax cuts generated more money in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 than Clinton's best year of 2000 .
Here it is again:
Clinton’s best year, 2000, generated revenue of $2.025 trillion.
(After Bush’s tax cuts in 2003 had time to take effect:)
Bush’s revenue in 2005 was $2.153 trillion. 6% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2006 was $2.406 trillion. 16% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2007 was $2.568 trillion. 21% above Clinton’s best.
Bush’s revenue in 2008 was $2.524 trillion. 20% above Clinton’s best.
So how again, does that tax cut stuff “cost” trillions in revenue?
While i agree that bush's tax cuts generated more money, the problem is that between 2 wars and medicade part D, creation of Department of Home land securty and giving more and more to the government of iraq and afgan, guess robert, we are broke.
Backhouse,
I'm defending the indefensible?
I simply stated the historic record, the facts, from OMB which you can not refute or challenge.
You suggest that I argue with Huffpo, a liberal cite that intentionally misleads clueless tools and fools?
They know what they are doing, I told you what they doing .... regardless they didn't post a lie here at FR - YOU DID.
If you can't defend their garbage - don't put it up.
David,
I just saw your comment from yesterday this morning.
I'll be glad to enlighten you tommorrow morning - see ya then.
Here we are again the usual BS from the same old BS suppliers. Seems the BS never runs out. Don't you people ever get tired reading your same old tired BS. It's taken both parties to get us where we are at today. If we don't wake up from our party slumber we too shall be a failed state. Pietro love that name calling and all who support that kind of drivel, makes me proud to be an American.
I can't speak for David, but I don't suppose it ever occurs to you that I may not understand you because I've lived in that world and I KNOW that's not how it works.
In other words, you're wrong, bobby. Simple as that.
BOB,
Denial is a terrible thing. I know this is painful for you.
To see a live clock with hands moving second-by-second on how much the Bush Tax Cuts Cost, go to:
http://costoftaxcuts.com/
Really?
Take the recall elections .... for the sake of argument assume it was pretty much 50-50 on the voting.
Didn't 50% of the voters have a portion of their taxes that were used to pay public employees (which are deducted and forwarded to unions) used against their political beliefs and will - counter to their vote?
Twist it however you want, Anna, that is the fact and you would crap all over yourself if it was the repubs who were doing it...... simple as that.
Even FDR was against public unions ...... Sheez.
@ Jeff --
I respectfully disagree -- not with your numbers, but with your conclusions.
Bush signed his tax cuts in two phases -- 2001 and 2003.
In 2001, revenues were only $ 1.995 Trillion. In 2002, revenues dropped to $1.853 Trillion. In 2003, they dropped to $1.782 Trillion. Obviously, this decline related to these two rounds of tax cuts.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200
It was about 2002 that Bush started encouraging the housing bubble, and Wall Street started building its little hidden empire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8
Based on these artificial influences, in 2004, revenues climbed to $1.880 Trillion, and, unsurprisingly, they kept rising, that is ... until the end of 2008 and the crash of the stock market, after which revenues dropped again.
And that's exactly how you know that the revenut bump from 2005 to 2008 was artificially caused -- because the tax cuts themselves didn't change after 2008, did they?
Cherry-picking facts is easy, Jeff. But sometimes pays to look a little deeper.
It wasn't. The total vote was more like 55-45 democrat. Wrong again, bobby.
No, read above.
I've told you this so many times before. I'm forced to conclude that you're just not be smart enough to understand it.
Once the worker has earned the money, it no longer belongs to the taxpayers -- not to you, and not to me. Public workers are free to give their money to unions. They can vote the unions out if they want, just like anyone else. In Wisconsin, public union money goes to politics only through PACS with specific individual authorization.
Once again, and finally, you're WRONG.
I always love you best when you're refined, bobby.
Backhouse,
Still can't defend or explain your post - just reference some insipid lib cite, blog or whatever.
Keep putting it up and I'll keep putting the facts and above up.
BTW - Thanks in advance for the opportunity to make you look stupid and prove to independents how clueless and deceitful libs are.
bob-1805084
When it comes to historical understanding, Bob gets the booby prize. As nasty as they may be, NO Iranian politician ever said that Iran would wipe out any other country. What they HAVE said is that Israel will be "wiped from the pages of history". Note the PASSIVE voice, which omits who or what would do the wiping. This is exactly the same sort of comment made by Nikita Khrushchev during the Cold War to the United States: "WE WILL BURY YOU" That comment really stirred up a lot of Red Menace hysteria about Soviet threats to wipe out America with nuclear weapons. But all Khrushchev was really saying is that the Soviet system would outlast the US capitalist system. All that the Iranians were saying is that Israel would eventually cease to exist as a nation state, not that they would bomb it out of existence.
Exactly as the Cold Warriors did back in the '50s, today's warmongers have snapped up the Iranian "wiped from the pages of history" comments as proof that Iran intends to nuke Israel once they get the bomb, and providing a justification for a US war with Iran. It's a totally bogus argument, just like all their arguments were for the disastrous war in Iraq, which would look like the promised "cake walk" in retrospect compared to the conflagration that would be sparked by a US attack on Iran, a much larger and much stronger nation militarily than Iraq ever was.
Bob -- YOU benefit from most services government provide. Those services are not performed by robots that work for free. I never understood this argument. Elaborate please. Did you miss my posts on fact checks on regulations?
To Bob....OR FOR THOSE WHO ARE TRULY CURIOUS ABOUT THE FACTS & ENJOY LEARNING THE FACTS:
Last month the Citizen for Tax Justice & the National Priorities Project released http://costoftaxcuts.com/
This website shows a 'real-time ticker' clock, showing the cost of tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.
http://nationalpriorities.org/blog/2011/10/14/what-the-bush-tax-cuts-cost/
bob 180:
Here's the deal bob. It's not your money in any way, shape, or form that is supporting public unions. Not one cent. That money comes from the employee's pockets. It comes out of their wages. It comes from their income, not yours. How they choose to spend their money is their business, not yours.
Your problem is that you don't like the results. Don't blame the union(s). The negotiators who represent the union members are doing a sensational job. However, they sit on only one side of the table. The negotiators on the other side are the folks with whom you have a beef. Clearly, you seem to believe they are not representing YOUR interests.
Vote them out if they don't represent your interests. THAT is your responsibility. Don't play the victim card. You are simply failing in YOUR responsibility. Like it or lump it, that's the fact.
Now, about those job-killing regulations to which you referred yesterday - You still haven't shown a single one. You're doing a Herman. Attack, attack, attack, and the moment someone asks for specifics you go into meltdown.
I don't care about what any of the radicals here are saying on First Read today.
The clip of Fonzie jumping the shark had me in tears laughing.
Jeff -- 300 billion of that revenue was from tax repatriation.
NOJO,
Thanks for checking in this am. Loved your story about corruption in a local school board in NJ.
I think you should run for a school board position, seriously. Put all you political theories in practice.
You know M. Bachmann started her career in school board politics.:)
David,
We're getting the 'Distract, Insult, Negate, Deny, Waste-Your-Time' Roviana from this guy Bob.
No mystery.
Backhouse:
You couldn't be more correct. Bob 180 comes here spewing dogma, no less and no more. The "uncertainty" mantra was pretty much destroyed when the tax cuts were extended. Now, we get the "regulation" mantra. Yet, when challenged, right-wingers cannot produce a single regulation that militates against job creation.
Indeed, there are now studies that indicate that regulation as a job-killer is a straw man. Most small employers will also tell you that if regulation is on their list of problems, it is very close to the bottom. As usual, the right-wing brings BS.
Bob I could just kiss you!!! Thank you for not making me have to explain all that.
Anna,
Pretty good effort to Jeff, my compliments.
Yep, revenues dropped ... something about a recession you forgot to mention? The dot.com bubble burst?
The first tax cuts were temporary tax cuts like Obama's little gimmicks - never work. The decline you cite is this first round of cuts, not the 2003 tax cuts which could not have taken any effect in 2003 by any stretch of the liberal imagination.
You know that - why the deceit - backhouse may not be able to do better, but you can.
Funny that Bush started in 2003 trying to reform Fannie and Freddie. Introduced the The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 which the dems blocked.
You know that - why the deceit?
So the revenues were all based on the housing market, huh?
I guess those over 8 million jobs created were all related to housing too, guys with hammers and realtors with flyers, huh?
Didn't I qualify it by stating for the sake of argument? Are you that lousy and careless an attorney, or did you intentionally misrepresent again? Did you really miss the point, or just ignore it because you can't argue it?
Yet the 45-50% of voters are forced to give their money to union workers who give the money to politicians they oppose.
You support Koch employees who give their money to repubs even those employees earned it, it is their money and they can give it to repubs if they want?
How intellectually disingenuous can you be?
Hi Drive BY,
A GREAT POST.
#1.10 - Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:24 AM EST
Walker,
Problem is that the guys on the other side of the table are bought and paid for by the ones they are negotiating with - the ones they give money to and help get elected.
Are you really such a moron that you can't see how corrupt this is?
Jack in Portsmouth, I noticed you didn't say how Obama would do against Newt in a debate. In 08 Obama could have said horsefart and the press would say, Wow how articulate what an intellectual and I even love the smell of digested oats! About debating McCain, a shoe would have done a better job. Newt is a different story. If you notice when newt speaks people listen. Don't take him lightly he would wipe the floor with a community organizer! It seems the shine has worn off Obama he looks tired! To many fundraisers.
by little bob numbers logic, there is no such thing as buyer's remorse. One must ALWAYS stick with the one who brung ya'. I guess there has never been a politician or product that could ever have a 'warranty', right?
I say Return Scotty Boy to the local ineptitude he was so known for. Oh, and no deposit, no return - the Koch brothers don't get a refund either.
Geo,
yep, especially the divorce lawyers and the judges,...there's a whole plethora of funds to be plundered when Newt speaks,...
bob 180 and 1SGFitzsWife4ID:
Bob, I know you said you'd be back tomorrow about the job-killing regulations. When you come back, why don't you also show us how YOUR money that is going to union negotiators.
Same for you 1SGF. Please kiss Bob, but explain to me how YOUR money is being used against you.
1SGFitzWife4ID,
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your comments.
I believe it was your comment on Friday ....... "Happy Veterans Day?"
So poignant.
So sad they don't really understand.
Thank you and your family for your service and sacrifice.
(Everyday is Veterans Day for some of us.)
Geo,
First of all, they are not "debates" by any stretch of the imagination. Bachmann, Perry, et. al., don't even answer the question most of the time. When a commentator pointed this out to Perry during one debate, he said he was going to talk about what he wanted to discuss.
Second, if Newt said something like he did during the last debate (e.g., he would assassinate Iranian scientists, deny the U.S. was involved, and that this would effectively mean that we didn't assassinate them), Obama's answer would make a fool out of him. Give Newt enough rope and he will surely hang himself.
bob 180:
Oh, I thought you wouldn't be back until tomorrow.
Ever the victim, aren't you Bob? You just can't seem to beat those evil unions, can you? They buy AND elect officials. Come on Bob. How big is that union that they can control a majority of votes?
Maybe, just maybe, your position doesn't cut much ice with the voters. Maybe you're just plain old ineffective.
If you keep being destroyed and victimized by (What was your word, "moron"? Yes, that's it.) morons, where in the world of I.Q.'s do you place yourself?
Nope, there's nothing corrupt about the practice at all. It's conducted in the open for all to see. On the other hand, perhaps their opponents are simply incompetent. Is that it, Bob?
That's such a typical, better-than-thou right wing statement. As if those on the left aren't as patriotic as you. When you say those kinds of things it automatically undermines your credibility. (Not that you ever had any to begin with.)
The President and Mrs. Obama have done more good for the Veterans and Active Service Members than any of these right wing clowns.
Bob, I think you are doing an excellent job and its always fun to read these posts because the reactions are always typical of the thinking of the various "other side" posters. Backhouse or Navy always responds with no response because its clear to me that he/she has zero critical thinking skills so like a parrot just keeps repeating thinkprogress even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. Anna Molly, who clearly knows better and is a little more disengenous in her responses because she likes to ignore any of the factual evidence that supports a more fiscally conservative agenda and pick a fact or statistic within a large body of evidence that has more nuance to it and try to unravel that one fact in order to discredit the entire argument. Its a very good ploy and a great brief writing legal character trait. She clearly understands that there are facts and arguments that dont fit her side of the political agenda so she prefers to focus on a narrow item that she can use to win. Then there are the idealogues like David and the Johns that it doesnt matter what you say as they will use every personal attack and trick in the book to try and discredit you. If you told them that Newt said the wall is white when in fact it was white, they would spend hours telling you why the wall isnt white if Obama thought it was red.
Keep up the good fight Bob.
David, you must not have ever stepped foot in my state of Illinois as the unions buy all the local politicians and look at our finances. You really cant be that naive are you? You like to rail on the corporations buying politicians but somehow you cant get your arms around the billions controlled by the unions that buy are local democrat politicians? Nobody has ever answered why we need state government unions for government employees? What are they protecting their state employees from? Greedy local governments? Merit pay? Performance promotions? tenure? Come on Mr. idealogue defender of everything thats good and right, explain that to me. Wait I forgot, you dont believe in self reliance and accountability for personal choice, you believe in equality of outcomes for everyone maybe I am asking the wrong person.
Kirk:
All you have said is that you can't beat the unions. You don't like the fact that they turn out the vote and that they elect candidates with whom you don't agree. Tough. You don't like it, fix it. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - keeping you from raising funds and from turning out the vote. You simply aren't as good at it as unions and that pisses you off. That has nothing to do with naivete. That is reality.
I don't like the decision in Citizens United. That decision will have an enormous impact on elections. The statistics show that business will far outspend unions. Does that piss me off? Yes. Am I going to piss and moan about it? Nope. That won't do any good. Will I work to see it changed? You bet your ass. The best chance for that is to tilt the Supreme Court back to the center. That isn't going to happen with a Republican holding the Presidency.
You have access to the same internet as I. The facts show that while unions are big political contributors, they are far outspent by interests that oppose them. The union advantage is that they can mobilize their members and their friends. That's shoe leather. Don't like it? Put your own shoes on the pavement.
Why does anyone need to provide you with an answer as to why we need unions for government employees? Why do they NOT need unions. I would look to the eternal truth that there is strength in numbers as an answer to your question.
As a matter of historical fact, any number of employment reforms have come into being as a result of employer abuse. Americans themselves were penalized in early years, not by unions, but by a spoils system that gave us patronage and incompetent employees who frequently gamed the system. Private employers have a nasty history of abusing employees, which include safety issues, horrible wages, disgusting working conditions, and more.
You are the one who cannot answer the question as to why we should not have employee unions, except for the fact that they make you a VICTIM. Poor defenseless Kirk.
Don't give me that crap about self-reliance. Don't give me that crap about personal choice. You of all people have no business talking about ideologues. That's your picture next to the definition of ideologue in the dictionary. You're the one who can't handle what's thrown at you. I most certainly don't believe in equality of outcome, or I would roll over when some simpering, whimpering victim comes sniveling about how he's being abused. Fight for yourself if you don't like what's happening.
I don't like unions. I never belonged to a union. I prefer to set my own wage. I prefer to gauge my own worth. That sure as hell doesn't mean I'm going to whine about those who feel more comfortable negotiating in force. This is America bub. That's why I'm pro-choice.
TRUE TO FORM
As I mentioned a couple of months ago, 2 candidates will likely drop out after Iowa and 2 more after NH, making this a 3 person race. One thing has changed though, 2 of the 3 I thought would do well, are not doing well. This is why long grueling campaigns are valuable.
Newt, this is your time to shine. You ARE now the Conservative alternate to Romney. Please deliver us from Mitt.
David, I am not the one day after day discussing Ohio and Wisconsin and calling the Teaparty all kinds of names. All I am doing is responding to you not raising these as issues. I agree that the Unions are great at organizing and getting out the votes and creating a corrupt system in which the negotiators on the other side are the ones that contributed to their campaigns to get them elected in the first place. Based on your view, you must have no problem with corporations contributing to judges so they can get elected and have a probusiness view on the court etc. So far there is no evidence of single industries ever coming close to spending union money on elections. They spent $40 million on the Ohio vote alone. We probably agree on limitations on campaign contributions but your head in the sand view of how government unions have corrupted politicians and states alike is odd in that context. I actually dont blame the unions but the system and politicians. On the other hand, your brethren post on here all the time about how the GOP is destroying the middle class based on silly arguments on government unions. There is no connection as there is no need for government unions in the first place.
Not sure how you see me as a victim in all of this unless you see it as my homestate being plundered and bankrupt as a result but dont worry I will have moved far away by then to a more sympathetic state. So no I dont feel victimized or defenseless I just laugh at your daily preaching as if you are the voice of reason among your idiot brethren that cant argue out of their paper bags.
Yes you do whine, virtually non stop about those evil corporations, those evil 1 percenters, those evil GOP politicians who are forcing the other 297 million people to walk 3 miles each way barefoot to the soup line. Did I mention in the snow too? You arent pro choice as you rail on the tea party every minute and they are the epitome of pro choice.
Jack, are you implying that our current kill everyone with a drone president. Would answer how?
@ David, Jack, DBO, DCIA, and Clara (and anyone else I left out).
Thanks for all the excellent analysis and comments. It's a pleasure flying with you.
@ bob -- One more time -- You're Wrong. I can tell you from first hand experience that teachers' unions don't have enough money to buy and pay for school board members. You're confusing teachers with NBA players.
Where you get these ridiculous ideas from is impossible to imagine.
One more question -- if you don't accept my lamebrain explanation, then exactly HOW do you think that tax CUTS increased revenue? And if so, then why did revenue drop so precipitously after the market crashed at the end of 2008, given that those same tax cuts were still in place?
Don't believe me? Feel free to check the link I provided.
Got any ideas on that one, bobby?
Intellectual disingenuousness, thy NAME is bobby.
@ Kirk -- Like low prices at Walmart, it's always a pleasure to see you spar with David. Always.
Anna Molly--at least you make me laugh even though my guess is the feeling isnt mutual. Not sure why you dislike me so and always trying to bring me down a peg or two in my self esteem which I suppose is a good thing. You do realize that in your response to Bob, you responded exactly how I described. You picked teachers which I agree supports your view of government unions (although you have to admit a huge barrier to education reform and closing the education gap) instead of bureucrats at the local drivers license bureau. Or like city workers here in chicago in any of the various departments where the negotiators on the other side are all paid for democrats.
As for tax cuts, Bob has the right facts and he could go back to Reagan's era and Clinton's era and show how tax cuts increased revenue. Its also true that economic cyclical behavior impacts revenue and so in some ways you both were being disengenous but my guess is your unwilling to admit it. You cant deny that tax cuts played a role in the increase in revenue no different than its accepted opinion by a majority of economists that Clinton's capital gains tax cut played a role in the revenue gains in the late 90s but with correlative impact of exacerbating the internet bubble. Its easier if you both are at least able to admit the same facts.
I dont really find it a fair battle with David as he is an idealogue (even though he likes to pretend I am one) as I dont personally hate Obama nor love the GOP candidates nor platform. I voted for Clinton and besides his personal issues I think he was a great president (somewhat corrupt but hey it got the job done) and I think Bush was a horrible president for many reasons. If the economy were to right itself and all the class warfare rhetoric coming from this president were to stop, I would be very happy for him to remain as president. To me its about his financial policies and economic ignorance about rational economic behavior. So when I think he will make things worse rather than better, I know thats an opinion and can live with that. So I like to stir the pot and I know you dont like my style and of course the idealogues really hate it so I understand why David and John A and B prefer ignore than intellectual debate.
PS--for some reason I dont see you as a WalMart shopper--wouldnt that violate some code of conduct for the progressives in here? Would it be hypocritical or just a conflict of interest based on your views? Not sure
As Ricky Bobby said, “If you ain’t first, you’re last.”
How nice of him to make the decisions for the voters. As I recall, Huckabee won in Iowa in 2008, but didn't get the nomination.
GEO, you are apparantly easily impressed. The professor Gingrich performed better than the others, but isn't that a bit like being the best ballerina in Waco, Texas?
Up against Obama? you've got to be kidding. The professor has nothing but tired old blame the media lines, and blustery nonsense about "socialism" and "take back our country" nonsense trotted out for the applause and appreciation of the extremists (who fail to remember what happened under his failed leadership the last go around...or simply keep forgiving the old fool). At least his Tiffany credit lines have increased enormously since then and the new wife is a bit more eager to play the Republican stepford game than all of the others had been). Unfortunately for Newt, not all of us were born yesterday
Well, at least you have one thing right. I don't shop at Walmart.
You have to be kidding me. It just goes to show what you know about education.
Yes, and so are you, although you're in total denial. But at least David is a really SMART ideologue.
And that's exactly why I enjoy the show so much.
Seriously? LoL
Reagan lowered taxes, we had a recession, and Bush had to raise them. "Read my lips," remember? No?
Well, then ... how about, "It's the economy, stupid"?
Clinton also raised taxes.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
But feel free to try again tomorrow, Kirk.
Anna Molly:
I am not an ideologue, and as soon as I can find the talking point on that subject, I'll get back to you.
David:
LoL Don't take that too seriously.
It's what I generally refer to as Anna Mollification.
Apparently Stu Rothenberg has never been witness to a backed up and untended "septic tank", especially one fed by multiple toilets. Works just like these republican candidates. One rises to the top for awhile, then here comes another, sometimes with something attached to it, and pushes the former back down, then the process repeats, and so on, and so forth. Always nasty spillage too. I don't need to describe the smell, but it isn't "Chanel #5, or even "My Sin", although it often is hellish. The republican party needs pumping, cleaning, and it's "field lines" cleared of obstructions, then we can all clean our toilets.
Geo,
There are at least three significant differences between Gingrich's proposal and the current use of drones. Think about it.
(To be clear, whether I personally do or do not condone the use of drones is irrelevant to my response.)
I hope Gingrich wins the nomination. He'll be fairly easy for Obama to beat in the debates and the general election. His flip-flops and the Freddie Mac connections and his general sleazeball personal life history are all easy targets.
And for those who don't pay attention to issues at all, it's been proven that the taller and better shape candidate with a deeper voice has a distinct advantage of winning an election mostly based on people who vote by physical characteristics alone.
Anna Molly. so now I am stupid. Good one and again you use your proven style of response to pick out what you consider the weakest aspect of my post and ignore the things you cant debate but use the weakest point to conclude that I am stupid on everything.
Lets start with teachers--you clearly didnt address the point did you? I called you out on using them as an illustration of corruption in government unions and give you examples of such which you totally ignore and try to score points by calling me stupid on education. I guess with my mother being a teacher for 30 years and retired with a pension that is unlikely to be completely paid here in Illinois. My sister and wife are both former teachers with my sister spending years teaching. My wife didnt teach in Illinois so she has a different state experience. Your right I know nothing about education. If you want to have a debate on teachers unions and the education gap we can but this post was in response to your inability to see the corruption with the union relationship with democratic legislators--and you think I dont know anything yeah right.
Yeah David is so smart he has run circles around me with his cut and paste posts from other web sites. Yeah he really got me Anna Molly. His enormous IQ and critical intellectualism has made me feel so small. Your right I am an idealogue about one thing--fiscal conservatism. At least I am not an idealogue on political parties thats a huge difference. The fact that I believe in self reliance and personal accountability for the choices one makes in life is an ideology I can live with and feel proud of it. The fact that David wants to punish success and try to create equality of outcomes in life and votes to democratic lever as some sort of robot belief in Obama politicians is an idealogy that I run from. If you cant tell the difference, maybe you are not the smart one
As for taxes, not sure if you decided to agree in part and then try and throw curve balls you know nothing about. Reagan lowered taxes in 1982 after the recession was well underway. The targeted tax cuts along with real incentives for business growth like accelerated depreciation for real estate and the investment tax credit and research tax credit for manufacturing industries had a huge impact on investment, improving GDP growth and government revenue. As the economy heated up and revenue was coming in strong, he started bringing the tax rates up which is what any good economists would recommend. As for Clinton he did raise taxes and he cut them. He raised the top rate while providing relief elsewhere. So what part of this discussion are you not getting? Your tax foundation information only supports what I already told you. This isnt about which political party raises taxes or cuts them more often. Again go back and read what I wrote and then stop cutting and pasting to fit your agenda. Remember I liked Clinton, he adopted spending restraints, he embraced and adopted the GOP contract for America, raised taxes and cut taxes. His capital gains tax cut spurred the internet boom, I get all of that. So its tomorrow and its a new day and new post. So feel free to pick out the sentence you most disagree with and attack it while ignoring the others and while you are doing it feel free to attack my IQ or law school or university I attended because its certainly below your pedigree.
I would love to see that dirtbag Scott Walker kicked out on his a$$, as far as the Candidates, Yawn, Boring, Yawn, Boring, Sad & Cain will Sing the T-ReTard blues.
AP. Where exactly did the legislation come from that ballanced the budget during the Clinton Era.
Hey Guys, there is light at the end of the tunnel, peoples eyes are opening...
The last Bloomberg Poll (2 days ago) on the Iowa Caucus says this....
Quote:
"There’s good news in the poll for Paul, 76, a Texas congressman who has attracted ardent supporters. Among likely caucus-goers who say their minds are made up, Paul leads with 32 percent, followed by Romney at 25 percent and Gingrich, a former House speaker, at 17 percent.
Everyone have a great Thanksgiving Day!
Bob,
cite is something you do. Scholars cite other sources. A site is a place, like a website. You can cite a site, when it has good information you want to point out to liberal commies. (The quality of citations is based on expertise, so an expert such as a scientist or scholar would be worthy of citation. Limbaugh, Carlson and Beck would be high school graduates who all dropped out of college and now resent educated people,not usually worthy of citation, except as experts in media communication.) You cannot site a cite, unless you take someone's citation and move it to another location, such as when one of those lib marxists cites economists, scientists and historians in a book and you throw it out the window. Then you change its site.
What caused the financial crisis? The Big Lie goes viral.
By Barry Ritholtz
One group has been especially vocal about shaping a new narrative of the credit crisis and economic collapse: those whose bad judgment and failed philosophy helped cause the crisis.
Rather than admit the error of their ways — Repent! — these people are engaged in an active campaign to rewrite history. They are not, of course, exonerated in doing so. And beyond that, they damage the process of repairing what was broken. They muddy the waters when it comes to holding guilty parties responsible. They prevent measures from being put into place to prevent another crisis.
Here is the surprising takeaway: They are winning. Thanks to the endless repetition of the Big Lie.
A Big Lie is so colossal that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. There are many examples: Claims that Earth is not warming, or that evolution is not the best thesis we have for how humans developed. Those opposed to stimulus spending have gone so far as to claim that the infrastructure of the United States is just fine, Grade A (not D, as the we discussed last month), and needs little repair.
Wall Street has its own version: Its Big Lie is that banks and investment houses are merely victims of the crash. You see, the entire boom and bust was caused by misguided government policies. It was not irresponsible lending or derivative or excess leverage or misguided compensation packages, but rather long-standing housing policies that were at fault.
Indeed, the arguments these folks make fail to withstand even casual scrutiny. But that has not stopped people who should know better from repeating them.
Why are people trying to rewrite the history of the crisis? Some are simply trying to save face. Interest groups who advocate for deregulation of the finance sector would prefer that deregulation not receive any blame for the crisis.
Some stand to profit from the status quo: Banks present a systemic risk to the economy, and reducing that risk by lowering their leverage and increasing capital requirements also lowers profitability. Others are hired guns, doing the bidding of bosses on Wall Street.
They all suffer cognitive dissonance — the intellectual crisis that occurs when a failed belief system or philosophy is confronted with proof of its implausibility.
And what about those facts? To be clear, no single issue was the cause. Our economy is a complex and intricate system. What caused the crisis? Look:
â—ŹFed Chair Alan Greenspan dropped rates to 1 percent — levels not seen for half a century — and kept them there for an unprecedentedly long period. This caused a spiral in anything priced in dollars (i.e., oil, gold) or credit (i.e., housing) or liquidity driven (i.e., stocks).
â—ŹLow rates meant asset managers could no longer get decent yields from municipal bonds or Treasurys. Instead, they turned to high-yield mortgage-backed securities. Nearly all of them failed to do adequate due diligence before buying them, did not understand these instruments or the risk involved. They violated one of the most important rules of investing: Know what you own.
â—ŹFund managers made this error because they relied on the credit ratings agencies — Moody’s, S&P and Fitch. They had placed an AAA rating on these junk securities, claiming they were as safe as U.S. Treasurys.
• Derivatives had become a uniquely unregulated financial instrument. They are exempt from all oversight, counter-party disclosure, exchange listing requirements, state insurance supervision and, most important, reserve requirements. This allowed AIG to write $3 trillion in derivatives while reserving precisely zero dollars against future claims.
• The Securities and Exchange Commission changed the leverage rules for just five Wall Street banks in 2004. The “Bear Stearns exemption” replaced the 1977 net capitalization rule’s 12-to-1 leverage limit. In its place, it allowed unlimited leverage for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns. These banks ramped leverage to 20-, 30-, even 40-to-1. Extreme leverage leaves very little room for error.
•Wall Street’s compensation system was skewed toward short-term performance. It gives traders lots of upside and none of the downside. This creates incentives to take excessive risks.
• The demand for higher-yielding paper led Wall Street to begin bundling mortgages. The highest yielding were subprime mortgages. This market was dominated by non-bank originators exempt from most regulations. The Fed could have supervised them, but Greenspan did not.
• These mortgage originators’ lend-to-sell-to-securitizers model had them holding mortgages for a very short period. This allowed them to get creative with underwriting standards, abdicating traditional lending metrics such as income, credit rating, debt-service history and loan-to-value.
• “Innovative” mortgage products were developed to reach more subprime borrowers. These include 2/28 adjustable-rate mortgages, interest-only loans, piggy-bank mortgages (simultaneous underlying mortgage and home-equity lines) and the notorious negative amortization loans (borrower’s indebtedness goes up each month). These mortgages defaulted in vastly disproportionate numbers to traditional 30-year fixed mortgages.
â—ŹTo keep up with these newfangled originators, traditional banks developed automated underwriting systems. The software was gamed by employees paid on loan volume, not quality.
â—ŹGlass-Steagall legislation, which kept Wall Street and Main Street banks walled off from each other, was repealed in 1998. This allowed FDIC-insured banks, whose deposits were guaranteed by the government, to engage in highly risky business. It also allowed the banks to bulk up, becoming bigger, more complex and unwieldy.
â—ŹMany states had anti-predatory lending laws on their books (along with lower defaults and foreclosure rates). In 2004, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency federally preempted state laws regulating mortgage credit and national banks. Following this change, national lenders sold increasingly risky loan products in those states. Shortly after, their default and foreclosure rates skyrocketed.
Bloomberg was partially correct: Congress did radically deregulate the financial sector, doing away with many of the protections that had worked for decades. Congress allowed Wall Street to self-regulate, and the Fed the turned a blind eye to bank abuses.
The previous Big Lie — the discredited belief that free markets require no adult supervision — is the reason people have created a new false narrative.
Now it’s time for the Big Truth.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/what-caused-the-financial-crisis-the-big-lie-goes-viral/2011/10/31/gIQAXlSOqM_story_1.html
_________________________________________________________
We’ve got to quit accepting these lies at face value.
Think about this folks. We had a system that worked pretty good for us for 50 or 60 years. Then we allowed ourselves to be manipulated into making fundamental changes in it. For the last 30 years it hasn’t worked out to well for most of us. But the folks that have learned to manipulate the system don’t want you to realize that. ‘Cause it’s going to cost them some money.
Quit letting your Politics cloud you’re Economics. In most cases the two are mutually exclusive.
tl;dr
Perhaps if you took the time to read you wouldn't back idiots.
Excellent post, IR. Can't add a thing to it except to point out that the GOP wants zero regulation yet the de-regulation, the removal of the safety walls put in place during the Great Depression, were systematically removed beginning with Reagan. Remember the Savings & Loan scandal after deregulation--that should have been a warning shot across the bow but no, the GOP continued its assault on regulations and President Clinton added the final blow by signing the repeal of Glass-Steagall. It was a self-inflicted disaster.
IR -- Most excellent post! There is talk a commodities bubble is in the works.
An example why we need tighter controls/regs.....Goldman Sachs is filling warehouses with industrial aluminum.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/29/us-lme-warehousing-idUSTRE76R3YZ20110729
Independent Redneck:
That was a fine summary of what has led to the continuing collapse of our economy. There's is much more of course, but enormous amounts of capital disappeared in this bust. That is really the biggest story and the biggest question. Where did that capital/money go?
Republicans flatly refuse to look for that money. Indeed, they are actively trying to aid and abet the thieves who are behind this massive and unprecedented theft. That theft, by the way, has not ended. It continues to this minute.
If Republicans have stopped reform, President Obama has not exactly turned in a stellar performance. In fact, it is about as wishy-washy and weak-kneed a response as one might imagine. Really, are we supposed to believe that the stars leading Team America to victory are Eric Holder and Timothy Geithner?
I'm going to be voting for President Obama, but as each and every day passes, I see him as more of the lesser of two evils than the strong leader I want. I have to ask why this team captain sent Team America's future Hall-of-Famer, Elizabeth Warren, to the bench, and I'm not going to hear how the Senate would have denied her confirmation.
President Obama has to show us some spine and he has to stop worrying about coming off as an "angry black man". I may not be black, but I'm sure as hell angry. We must make it clear to the President that we have his back. I can't be the only one who is angry with this inaction.
President Bush made it clear that the Republican version of "Bring it on" meant sending someone else off to an unwinnable fight. I want President Obama to show Republicans what "Bring it on" REALLY means.
@IR
I think you just stuck the fork in Dodds-Frank. It did not address the real issue of too big too fail. I for one would like to see Glass-Steagall reinstated. The margin rules I think have been changed. Derivatives have to be traded on a transparent market. I would also like to see the rating agencies sued out of business. I would also like to see the government stop trying to engineer social policy. It was very simple once 20% down or you paid an extra premium against default. If you want to help poor people buy houses, then formulate some kind of rent to buy program. The whole concept of NINJNA loans was caused by the incentives you note above.
@David
The capital did not disappear. Assets were overvalued. I have bought three houses in my life and they were not worth what I paid for them, they were only worth what someone else would pay for them.
Alan I think we can agree that Politicans make poor Economists and vice versa. And actually David I think that Alan is pretty close to an explanation of where the money went.
And actually Alan rather than sticking a fork in Dodd- Frank I think I made a case for strengthening it. In the meantime something is better than nothing.
LOL, David, aint' that the truth!
Amen, IR!
I missed that the banks (too big too fail) should be broken up in some way, but I have no idea how, or how to stop them becoming as big in the future. An an end to proprietary trading by investment banks (too late for you Mr Corzine).
As I said yesterday regarding insider trading by congress, anybody who thinks Chinese walls work at an investment bank are deluding themselves. Even if information is not passed within the bank you don't think reciprocal favors occur between traders at different banks? No one has ever come up with a legal explanation of how Goldman Sachs traders have always beaten the S&P. The obvious conclusion is cheating and also looks if congress are on board. It was also mentioned on Morning Joe yesterday that when Newt sold the new congress on the Mexican bailout (Robert Rubin anyone?), it was really to save Goldman Sachs. Nothing has really changed.
Volker for Treasury. (Can you imagine if Corzine had got there?
IR and Alan:
Actually, you both hit a point that irritates the hell out of me. A great deal of the real estate that turned over in the frenzy, was NOT overvalued. It was overpriced.
The money that is floating out there in the ether is the difference between price and value. That money is not so much wealth as it is a devaluation of the capital that has been pumped into our economy along with the money/capital that was already there.
Yes indeed, something along the lines of Glass-Steagall MUST be put into place. Capital markets and casinos should be kept separate.
Great discussion here. The problem with Dodd-Frank is that it didn't go far enough; sadly, too many legislators mostly right but many on the left, are owned by Wall Street. I look at it as a start. What Congress should do is re-instate the original laws written and passed during the Great Depression. Those kept the financial industry in check for over 50 years. It was only when they were removed one by one that things began to unravel until it totally collapsed in 2008.
Alan -- Doesn't the mere fact that most everyone, including business, used the over inflated values to transact business prop up the idea that the money disappeared when the bubble burst?
Yay, the "ignore" is working again, it's safe once more to venture onto first read. We are nut job free once again. (Well at least my First Read experience is nut job free)
Sorry, guys, but you have to pity poor Mitt Romney. He's got everything except the one thing he wants most, GOP support.
I'm starting to wonder why Mitt continues to put himself through this humiliation? Why doesn't he just tell the GOP to go screw themselves and play with his stocks or count his money or take a nice cruise with his beautiful wife. Jeeez. He's just a glutton for punishment.
I'm serious, I feel sorry for him. Could the GOP have made it any clearer that they will take ANYBODY but Mitt Romney? Now they've turned to that washed up old reprobate Newt Gingrich. Sad, really. Next we'll see a "Draft Palin" movement.
Thank goodness we've got a good candidate and the election is in the bag.
Obama/Biden 2012
I couldn't agree more. His lukewarm approach to health care, the build-up rather than reduction of forces in Afghanistan, his "compromises" during the raising of the debt ceiling--all are signs of a weak leader. And yet he is head and shoulders above the slate of Republican candidates. It's a sad day in America when we can't do better than this. Truth be told, we need a Bernie Sanders for president.
Don't get me wrong DCIA. Overvaluation explains some of it. A portion of it went into the pockets of the very Folks who once they set up a system to fail then bet on that failure. They got us going and coming. Going it was Private Money and coming it was Public Money. As a money making proposition it was perfect for the very few.
Not really. How much is an oz of gold?
IR -- Your point was understood. I think Alan overlooks something here. The thing that irritates me most IR, is that business is able to socialize their losses. Us, not so much in this game. God help us all IR....if these idiots are allowed to continue business as usual. Again, thanks for another terrific post today. Keep up the terrific work IR, I love reading your posts!
Alan:
If memory serves, and ounce of gold is about 28.3 grams. It's worth to a starving man is nothing. To that same starving man, a loaf of bread is priceless.
Gold is a very poor measure of wealth and is not a reliable standard. Consider the Hunt manipulation of silver in the past, and the current manipulation of other commodities.
Don't_carry_it_all is on to something on the issue, as are you. We simply are going to have to find a way to bring the Federal Reserve Board into our world. We do need a currency, and the FRB is not our bank. We should fix that. Gold isn't the answer.
@DCIA
Specifically, what irritates me is why the counter parties in the AIG transactions were paid at 100 cents on the dollar. From IR's history there is a lot of blame to go round, but this in particular leads right back to Tim Geithner. I do not understand why they could not make the investment banks (Goldman Sachs I'm looking at you) take a haircut without putting them out of business.
Alan --
The truth is I don't trust any of them anymore. Call me cynical. When hedges literally are paying for inside info, trades are being done by computer drones based on the tiniest flicker of data of which we have no access to until it's too late and there is no regulation that can't be undermined, it's time to quit playing the game IMO. Maybe then they will clean up the system.
As to gold as a standard here is my take. Look at the scams in the ETF's "weighted" in gold or just the fact that there is a good possibility that speculators are at play here. Now think worse case scenario ... a loaf of bread will be far more valuable than a gold nugget. Or let's pretend someone comes to power and decides to change that gold standard you like and instead use something they favor. Man put the value on gold and man can change it anytime. My cynical take on things and I'm a little bearish right now Alan, lol. ; )
BTW -- Of course they should have taken a haircut!!!
No reason for these first two posts to be collapsed - some of the brightest replies I've read - very educational. Doesn't require a rocket surgeon to know who dislikes being educated.
The common man/woman made big profits off of their sales but they had to live somewhere - so unless they drastically down sized or held off from buying (renting instead) they lost those windfalls when they had to purchase an over priced home to replace the over priced home they sold.
That leaves the people who collect upon closing as the winners - whatever entities there are that didn't have to reinvest are the ones with the capital gains still in their possession. The banks didn't see any money from the loans they kept, but if they were in the business of reselling those loans they made a killing - do they get full payment from the banks buying those loans? That might be why so many small lending institutions got bought up by the larger banks. Sounds like small computer and Internet businesses that have a few new products that have lasting potential but their main goal is to sell out to the big companies.
Alan Don't see how you get back to Geithner although in the long run he has problems of his own. Simple fact of the matter is that they socialized their losses on this before he was ST. He may have had something to do with it as an official of the Fed but it is hardly his fault. The socialization of the loss was fait accomplia when the present administration was put in office. All they could do at that point was to try and make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.
LOL IR -- Wasn't the name Paulson?
Now you're rewriting history. TARP was split 350B evenly between this Administration and the last. Geithner (and Paulson) were up to their ears in it. Paulson bailed out the banks when the @!$%# hit the fan, but Geithner allowed them to walk away with no losses.
Geithner also OK's the bonuses for AIG employees as they unwound their positions in 2009 and 2010. I think this leads back to Mr Geithner. Let's have a little pool. Where do think Timmy is going to work after government service?
BTW when I asked how much an oz of gold is worth, I meant the same as a house. It's worth what someone else will pay for it. I do not believe in a return to the gold standard.
Good thing Alan you had me worried. ; ) And on the haircut....they would have actually realized a loss then.
No Alan I'm not rewriting history. Tarp was already allocated under the Bush Administration. The second 350b was dispersed under the Obama Administration. But the money was already spent. Like I said Geithner has his own problems as you mentioned above and yes I do have that as a separate issue. But the simple fact of the matter was that the loss was socialized under Bush and no conditions at all were put on it. Mr. Summers showed up with his three page bill and the largest Bank Heist in History was on.
Primary, blah,blah,blah. They all suck, blah, blah, blah. Conservatives are traitors, blah, blah, blah.
That ought to cover it for you Libs today.
So FR, I guess a Democrat hasn't made any news in what now, about 4 months?
You might want to check out Pelosi calling a CBS "60 Minutes" report a "Right Wing Smear" job.
CBS and 60 Minutes! Right Wing Smear! Only Pelosi could get away with such garbage with the libs on this board.
Hilarious!
Goodness, WCA. Someone pee'd awfully early in your cereal this morning. We can't help it if the GOP race has a bunch of people wanting to sell books and aren't serious candidates.
Let these Radical Right Clowns keep on holding their debates, so at some point all of the American People can see the cast of Clowns trying to fit into the Clown Car.
Job1, I see Thanksgiving break started early for you from your middle school. That's nice, enjoy it. Maybe get outside and play a fun game of "tag" with your pals and save yourself the embarrasing, inane, comments you make on this board.
Whoever your mom or dad is that is a regular here must be embarrased as heck.
Kind of a slow day over in tea people republican land today WCA?
That's about all you tea people republicans are about WCA. Now you can go take a nap.
The problem with Newt, eventually his head gets so big, it explodes.
Now if Newt wins the GOP nomination, hopefully he picks Sarah Palin as his running mate. Not since the Goldwater/Lodge tandem would there be a slate that is guaranteed to lose.
Well, compared to the flag defecating OWS crowd...think I'll take the teaparty. Gingrich at least understands the governmental process, unlike most, but Paul is the one who understands the Federal Reserve issue and that is the one that is the most problematic.
My oh My!
I see the collapse cowards are roaming freely this morning!! lol
What a bunch of pathetic losers who are terrified of the truth & FREE SPEECH!
Newt's rising, Obama's falling and the libbies are in damage control! What could be better than that as we approach the holiday season.
My Christmas wish is to see the Solyndra scandal, Fast and Furious (Obama/Holder's attempt to circumvent the 2nd amendment) be resolved and indictments handed out by late Spring 2012. After that getting Obamacare redacted and with that onerous issue now in the hands of the SCOTUS it looks like things will continue to get better all the way up to election day.
Obama Must Go (OMG)
Newt in 2012, more than ever!
Romney and Gingrich....thats my ticket! Go get em!!!!
Mark, you should know better than to bring up a Christmas at this blog. The average liberal is dense, contentious, pro socialist, hate any opposing views, and are mostly atheist. Did I leave anything out? Oh ya, they prefer to spend other peoples money!
Time to destroy Newt now...after all, it is Romney the Libs fear the most. Way to use that reverse physiology libs! haha
carrot top, it seems to me you weren't opposed to collapsing when you were outed as a truck stop troll, seeking free boilermakers! Such hypocrisy!
Fiesty considers herself the queen of debate! How dare you challenge Royalty! Her minions are in the wait, ready to pounce on any grammatical errors you may have!
White Collar:
Good thinking. You are an absolute genius.
If McCain had been president during the auto bankruptcy you would be living out of a dumpster right now.
I sincerely hope you get all you wish for on these boards. Then I hope you bask in all the things that the republicans hold in store for you:
I sincerely and deeply wish you get everything you wish for.
EvaPeron, check out post #3.15 for a good example of what you describe... that ugly bird, the left wing wacko! LOL
I too like Newt, he has handled himself very well in the debates and refuses to be baited into criticizing the others on the panel! His attitude is that anyone on that panel would do a much better job in the White House than Obama..... and he's right!
not all conservatives are traitors just like not all liberals are traitors.there were 6 cosigners on a bill to make bribing a congressman illegal.i have no idea what political leaning those 6 honest congressmen were.conservatives are selfish,greedy and suffer the delusion that others that arent as wealthy all want something for nothing,envy them and are jealous of them.delusional
I keep wondering what kind of candidates would we have if the tables were reversed. If there were DEMs debating and trying to be President??? I don't have any idea who would be running, but would they be just a terrible as their GOP candidates, but then the DEMs won't be trying to get rid of a president like the GOP candidates are. The GOP candidates are spending more time debating on how to get rid of Obama then any other subject until debate. And why??
I see a lot of collapsed posts this morning I guess mainly from the stupidity shown by the left. My suggestion to all the liberals who continuous seem to enjoy running down the Republican primary candidates is to:
1) Quit watching the debates and quit reading all of the negative press by the left wing media.
2) None of you on the left, those posting all the so called negatives, are going to vote in the primary anyway since you are democrats or maybe liberal independents.
3) Personally I don't really care much for the field, but I believe at least 3 of the candidates can beat Obama (Gingrich, Romney and Huntsman). I haven't watched much of the debates as I really think they are useless at this point, I mean 8 people trying to answer questions in 30 to 60 second sound bites, hell the idiots asking the questions take longer to ask the question than the candidates have to answer them.
4) If Obama is such a sure thing to win, in your liberal minds, why does he need to raise one billion dollars for his campaign, could it be that he needs it for the negative campaigning since he surely can't run on his record of accomplishments.
5) FIRST READ, why so many articles on the Republican primary race, when the majority of your followers are hard core liberal democrats? I am sure there are a lot of other political news items that are more interesting.
If you actually watched the CBS report, it was quite apparent that the list of Republicans scoring nice profits from their political careers outnumbered the Dems. Did you miss that?
I find myself repeating this every few weeks . . . but with a new charlatan in play . . . so why not take advantage of this opening?
The right trots out immoral, ignorant, hypocritical, manipulative, valueless candidates for office and then whines when they publicly self-destruct.
Geesh. Maybe if their own back-room Swift-boaters, scam artists, and propagandists spent a bit more time finding an actual human being to represent their interests they wouldn't face the relentless embarrassment.
Now, where they would find such a person is hard to figure. They eat their own, forcing inane litmus tests on fraudulent religious values, bogus patriotism and imaginary populism.
So, Newt is the new guy? Desperation in the air?
A LOOK AT THE GOP PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE ‘FRONTRUNNERS’
Every few weeks, there seems to be a new ‘frontrunner’ in the GOP Nomination for President. I must admit that there have been so many changes that I am increasingly skeptical of the whole process. However, I am noticing a few interesting coincidences that do NOT look kosher. So let’s take a look at the ‘frontrunners’ in this GOP/Tea Party fiasco called the GOP nomination by examining the participants, shall we?
Michele Bachmann
The first ‘frontrunner’ was Michele Bachmann. I am sure she cannot help that ‘crazy eyes’ look she exhibits when she is on the stump, so she gets a pass from me on that subject. It seems that Rep. Bachmann has NO CAMPAIGN STAFF, since Ed Rollins quit her campaign a few weeks ago.
The question is this – why would a seasoned campaign manager just quit so abruptly?
The short answer – Michele is in for the win, but she doesn’t know how to close the deal. She is a ‘one-trick pony’, where all of the ills of the world are President Obama’s fault.
-- Global warming? It is President Obama’s FAILURE to fix the problem.
-- New Math? It is President Obama’s Fault no one understands it.
-- Smog in Los Angeles? It is President Obama’s Fault – just because.
-- A Tree falls in the Forest? It’s President Obama’s fault for not propping the trees up.
-- Car won’t start in the cold? It is President Obama’s fault the weather is cold.
-- Bad Brakes? President Obama’s fault.
-- Your child’s boo-boo when they fall down? It is President Obama’s fault.
I think you get the gist of her argument(s). I can see why Ed Rollins left the campaign, because you have to have more of a message than just ‘it is all Obama’s fault’.
The GOP establishment is using her as a foil for the ultra-ultra-ultra-ULTRA right wing crowd, where she gives them the red meat they want by excoriating President Obama. The ‘pray away the Gay’ thing with her husband probably did not help her, but I am also sure that the handlers of this ‘reality show’ knew that before they invited Michele to be a contender.
And yes, Michele, you probably SHOULD have done that ‘Google Search’.
Rick ‘Mr. Goodhair’ Perry
The 2nd ‘frontrunner’ was Gov. Rick Perry. With his well publicized war chest, we have a guy that threw out even MORE red meat to the right-wing ultra crazies. I dunno if Mr. Goodhair has a campaign staff, but I am starting to think that the ‘brain freeze’ that we saw at the debate was all an act.
Why?
Well, after 10 debates, do you REALLY think that ANYONE would FORGET a salient point of their debate? I think that the GOP establishment told Mr. Goodhair that he needed to drive his campaign into the ground, but he could keep the $19 MILLION and do what he wants. I think they told him – in no uncertain terms – that he was NOT going to get the nomination. Notice I am giving Mr. Goodhair the benefit of the doubt here, because nobody could be THAT stupid and still hold elected office (I am sure that I will hear from people from Texas that may or may not agree with me).
Well, at least his hair is in place.
Herman ‘Hermie the Clown’ Cain
I have to admit – I LIKE Hermie the Clown. Here is a guy that has no chance at all getting the Republican Nomination but was willing to be a team player. Well, OK, if that is what you want to do, that’s fine with me. Here is how we know he was not serious:
-- This man quoted the POKEMON song during one of the debates. C’mon, man, POKEMON?? Are you Serious??
-- This man got his ‘9-9-9’ plan from the Simm City Video Game. A VIDEO Game.
-- ‘Us-beki-beki-beki-stan’??
The allure of this ‘character’ was that he had a pretty good quip for just about everything. You know, like:
-- ‘Black People are brainwashed by the Democrats’
-- ‘Don’t blame the banks if you are poor – blame yourself!!’
However, a funny thing happened on the way to the nomination. Hermie the Clown saw he was ahead and got SERIOUS and went OFF SCRIPT. The GOP establishment did not like that, and made sure that Hermie the Clown’s harassment issues resurfaced from a DECADE ago.
I have to admit – the GOP establishment really pulled out the stops too, by getting Gloria Allred involved. Now, Gloria is like a pit bull when she has an issue, and we can see that although Hermie seemed to weather the initial barrage pretty well, we see Gloria pull out all the stops by getting the woman she represents EX-BOYFRIEND to make a statement that Hermie is not a ‘good guy’.
SERIOUSLY??
Since when does ANYONE do ANYTHING of this magnitude for an EX-wife/husband or EX-girlfriend/boyfriend for something that happened a DECADE ago if they are not getting PAID to do so???
What some people would not do for their 15 minutes of fame.
Oh, I did I mention that Hermie the Clown has NO CAMPAIGN STAFF except for ‘the smoking man’? When Hermie was thrust into the limelight, his ‘organization’ was NOT ready for the prime time and he started making mistakes.
So what happed to those clever quips that came so effortlessly?
Now, we have a videotape of Hermie the Clown trying to answer questions about Libya. I saw the whole tape of the question, not just the very pregnant pauses that Hermie took when trying to answer the question. What struck me was this – he was genuinely trying to answer the question (with a GOP spin saying that President Obama was wrong in what he did in Libya). The answer to the question that Hermie finally gave was that he needed to have ALL of the facts in front of him before he makes a decision like that, which, surprisingly, was the CORRECT answer (in my book, anyway).
There was no clever quip.
There was no flip answer.
But there were some really LONG pregnant pauses.
Then there was the reiteration of facts asked as questions as if Hermie was not really prepared.
Even though it was clear that Hermie had to REALLY search his mind for the situation and had no grasp on the issue, he gave a DECENT ANSWER. Now THAT, to me, shows a person who is SERIOUS about getting nominated, even though he did NOT do his homework.
Unfortunately for Hermie the Clown, the GOP establishment will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER give him the nomination. Not in this life, or any subsequent lives he may have, or any lives his children may have.
Newton Leroy Gingrich (the Oaf)
Newt the Oaf was sitting at 3% in the polls last week. Now he is the ‘frontrunner’. Are we to believe that Conservatives have changed their mind THAT much in a week? If you want to fool the people, GOP establishment, at LEAST try and do it more clandestinely!!
This is poll manipulation, pure and simple. They want to make sure that Hermie the Clown, with all of his baggage, does not overshadow what they really want to do.
So, let’s look at this campaign Newt the Oaf is running. It seems to me that Newt the Oaf is scamming conservatives out of their money. Yes, that’s right – I said it - hiss campaign is a SCAM and the Conservatives are falling for it.
Here the skinny – Newt the Oaf DOESN’T HAVE A CAMPAIGN STAFF, as they all quit on him a few months ago, citing that the Oaf was more interested in hawking his wares than running a Presidential campaign. So tell me – how does this Oaf run a campaign if there is no staff to man the campaign?
This ‘campaign’ is an excuse for Newt the Oaf to hawk his 24 books and CDs and videos. How can we forget the Oaf blowing off Conservative some gatherings to take his 3rd wife (who is kinda hot in a Stepford sort of way) to Greece on a cruise?
At least Calista’s hair was in place.
The Oaf has no policy position. He has no plan. He sits up there and ‘wings’ what he is going to say, punctuated by his ‘commercials’ encouraging people to ‘pick up his book’. So can anyone explain to me how the Oaf with no campaign staff, no policy positions, and an inventory of books, tapes and CDs that he is openly hawking, is SERIOUS about his campaign?
Pietro’s Conclusion(s)
Do we see a pattern here?
How can people with no campaign staff run a campaign and be ‘frontrunners’?
They CAN’T.
This is all a show – political ‘entertainment’ – and America is eating it up. In other words – THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT SERIOUS about the nomination for the President of the United States.
They NEVER have been.
I cannot believe that Conservatives are FALLING for this claptrap, as they are continuing to give their hard-earned cash to these charlatans, carpetbaggers and clowns to support these ‘campaigns’. This has got to be the second BIGGEST political fleecing I have seen in my lifetime. So what is it about Republican candidates and handlers that are SO callously fleecing the very flock that they want and/or need votes from??
Why is the flock WILLINGLY allowing themselves to be fleeced??
Mittens ‘human weather vane’ Romney’s issues
What is salient to this discussion – and even more interesting – is that spoiled Frat Boy Mittens ‘the human weather vane’ Romney – with all of that going on – STILL polls at around 22%.
22%.
Notice how QUIET the Romney camp has been. Notice how they pulled Romney out from in front of the cameras when he ‘weather-vaned’ on the situations in Ohio with SB5 (collective bargaining with Unions) and in Mississippi with Issue 26 (Conception is a Person), both of which went down in defeat and Romney took the LOSING positions BOTH times.
You see, it looks like no one really likes ‘the human weather vane’ except for the GOP establishment, as he is their sacrifice for this election cycle. They know that Romney will end up like John McCain did in the last cycle and lose to President Obama. They have already signaled that Mittens Romney is going to be the nominee and are prepping him for the crown.
After 6 years of running for President, Mittens cannot do better than poll 22% of the likely voters in his party, even when the crazies and the clowns are polling at 24% and 25%. That REALLY tells me a LOT about the candidate the GOP is putting up. I think that Anne Coulter, a shill, stated it best – “If [New Jersey Governor] Chris Christie doesn’t run, we will put up Mitt Romney, and WE WILL LOSE”.
The GOP establishment is putting up Mitt Romney.
Remember that Conservatives really CANNOT STAND the human weather vane and neither can his handlers. Honestly, Mittens cannot help himself as he is a pleaser (OK, that is the extent of my psychological profile on Mittens. For now).
What you will see will be the ‘talking heads’ – on ALL of the Networks, not just Fox - that will start subtly telling you that Mitt Romney’s numbers are not 22%, but are REALLY 48% once the others drop out of the race. They will subtly say that ‘Romney’s not that bad, compare to President Obama’, knowing full well that this is a LIE.
I saw last night on Larry O’Donnell’s show, where there were two reporters from POLITICO on as ‘experts’. I could not believe my ears when the male ‘expert’ EXPLAINED that what we are seeing in the polls is not what we are REALLY seeing.
I expect to see this phenomenon continue into next year, where this subtle ‘suggestion’ that Mitt Romney is really better than he is will take root. Conservatives – you are about to be mind freaked (to take a phrase from Chriss Angel) into supporting Mitt Romney as your Republican Presidential Candidate, even though you absolutely detest him.
And yes, you Conservatives will fall for it.
tl;dr
The thing is, Pietro, I don't think the GOP was ever serious about the 2012 campaign. Notice all their first tier candidates are sitting this one out. I think the main focus for the White House will be 2016.
White Collar Auto
"tl;dr"
Uh....does Cain agree with your spelling of that?
tl;dr=too long;didn't read, it explains how the tea party candidates gets support though.
Thanks, Jan- I didn't know that's what that stood for.
So, it's kind of like a badge of honor: "I'm too stupid and lazy to read something if it involves effort, and God forbid- I might learn something, or gain a new perspective."
Thank you, Jan, sometimes the modern-day, shorthand texting codes escape me.
WCA, you might try reading something longer than a bumper sticker; you'd be amazed at what you can learn.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
That wit WCA can be a very dim bulb or the light that illuminates the room. Unfortunately the tea party only seem to be capable of being a christmas tree bulb.
Well Jan, based on that short comment of yours, I guess brevity is not always the soul of wit.
Thanks for playing, though.
But having wit is not the same as having intelligence, which explains the major difference between the Democrats and the Republican/Tea Party.
Democrats value intelligence, fact, truth and justice.
Republicans value wit, brevity, polarization, obfuscation, and winning at all costs.
2012 will be the year where the future direction of America will be decided. Let's make sure Intelligence prevails over Wit.
The problem with your school of thought WCA isn't in what they choose to say usually, its what they are not saying. If you wish to present an argument, you need to cover the bases, these candidates are leaving major holes in policy. Dismissing something because you are too lazy to read, has a tendency to leave holes in your knowledge, I am searching for a GOP candidate to vote for, we have to do SOMETHING about the economy but I am not going to vote for the swiss cheese they are offering up.
Awesome write up, Pietro! I would have loved to also see princess palin and the dumptrump guy included! Well done, tho! Accurate and true word, man.
Not taking the time to read before you disagree is the soul of stupidity.
Hey Say:
Wit
noun
1. the keen perception and cleverly apt expressionof those connections between ideas that awaken amusement and pleasure. Synonyms: drollery, facetiousness, waggishness, repartee.
2. speech or writing showing such perception and expression. Synonyms: banter, joking, witticism, quip, raillery, badinage, persiflage; bon mot.
3. a person having or noted for such perception and expression. Synonyms: wag, jester, epigrammatist, satirist.
4. understanding, intelligence, or sagacity; astuteness. Synonyms: wisdom, sense, mind.
5. Usually, wits.
a. powers of intelligent observation, keen perception, ingenious contrivance, or the like; mental acuity, composure, and resourcefulness: using one's wits to get ahead. Synonyms: cleverness, cunning, wisdom, insight, perspicacity, sacaciousness, acumen.
b. mental faculties; senses: to lose one's wits; frightened out of one's wits. Synonyms: mind, sanity; brains, marbles.
Thanks for the help. Next time look it up before you post. I really appreciate it when you folks make my point for me.
Thanks, to you too, for playing.
How presumptive of you Tom. I didn't say I disagreed, but you assume that.
How very LIBERAL of you.
I prefer win at all costs....to everyone wins and gets a trophy. I believe that's what got this country through several wars. I'm sure my grandfather didn't go ashore at Iwo with the idea of just taking half the island and sharing it with the Japanese.
More often of a nitwit.
Everyone gets a trophy! Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
White Collar Auto,
"That ought to cover it for you Libs today."
I would be happy to hear your analysis of the GOP debates, candidates, upcoming primaries...
Joanna Smith 1 said yesterday that any of the GOP candidates would be ok for her.
As a conservative/independent, do you have anything to add?
Nope.
This just proves that not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.
And there is the total analysis of WCA on the tea people republican candidates. Vary articulate white collar auto.
My analysis, MO is the same as JAS1.
Anyone would be better than our current President.
Man you all are just thick sometimes.
There folks, is a 'man' of his convictions... lmao
Feisty- did I mention 'childish hate' earlier??
Why... yes you did Buzz!
Simply amazing!
DBO - Childish Hate?
You mean as submitted here daily by you and your ilk regarding the GOP candidates?
When, oh when, will you folks realize that every time you try to apply some level of derogation to the right it applies to the things you say and stand for ten times over?
Anyone would be better than our current President.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like the Republican party has taken that statement far too literally for its own success...
There's a good chance that foolish belief will enable the President to win reelection...
Intentionally re-posted for emphasis considering WCA's latest attempt at rebuttal:
But having wit is not the same as having intelligence, which explains the major difference between the Democrats and the Republican/Tea Party.
Democrats value intelligence, fact, truth and justice.
Republicans value wit, brevity, polarization, obfuscation, and winning at all costs.
2012 will be the year where the future direction of America will be decided. Let's make sure Intelligence prevails over Wit.
Hey Say:
Wit
noun
1. the keen perception and cleverly apt expressionof those connections between ideas that awaken amusement and pleasure. Synonyms: drollery, facetiousness, waggishness, repartee.
2. speech or writing showing such perception and expression. Synonyms: banter, joking, witticism, quip, raillery, badinage, persiflage; bon mot.
3. a person having or noted for such perception and expression. Synonyms: wag, jester, epigrammatist, satirist.
4. understanding, intelligence, or sagacity; astuteness. Synonyms: wisdom, sense, mind.
5. Usually, wits.
a. powers of intelligent observation, keen perception, ingenious contrivance, or the like; mental acuity, composure, and resourcefulness: using one's wits to get ahead. Synonyms: cleverness, cunning, wisdom, insight, perspicacity, sacaciousness, acumen.
b. mental faculties; senses: to lose one's wits; frightened out of one's wits. Synonyms: mind, sanity; brains, marbles.
Thanks for the help. Next time look it up before you post. I really appreciate it when you folks make my point for me.
Thanks, to you too, for playing.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-november-14-2011/indecision-2012---saturday-right-fever
Feisty- "I know you are, but what am I"....TIMES TEN!
Haw haw haw....
Democrats were going to have an uphill battle in this election,....doing their best to flub this one up.
Then along came Newt, and allllllll the baggage he carries.
Thanks Newt.
Not a moment too soon.
WOW!
The childish attacks being tossed around here today have reached an all-time high!
Nice job people!
(FR has become such a cr@p-hole thanks to the usual characters... ( or should I say lack-of-characters.)
Feisty is always closing with LMAO, and yet she is still one.
A little humor is a good thing! Laughter can keep one healthy. ; )
drive-by-observer
That's it Drive By...your handle comes right in line with the caravan of Republican presidential hopefuls; ones that drive by to steal peoples money, make themselves rich and famous, but not stopping long enough to develop any sustainable knowledge.
Funny how your best counter is nothing more than name calling. Please construct an intelligent response about real positions that Newt has that would propel him to the top.
I just do not get the Republican party these days. Poor Romney must be developing a complex as the fickle conservatives desperately try to back anybody but him. What is ludicrous is that he and Huntsman are the most rational of the candidates. I would not back either, but at least they seem more sane.
Cain and Gingrich, Two Peas in a Pod. One thing these two GOP presidential candidates have in common is selling books. Just listen to Newt Gingrich's speeches and look at where he holds many of his campaign stops. Every speech is a sales job promoting his books, his documentaries. Every speech is laced with "I am" or "Calista is" or "I/Calista" will be at such and such bookstore signing copies of....
Herman Cain did the same thing. Book stores substituted for campaign rallies. Buy my book and get my autograph. What puzzles me is why anyone ever took these candidates seriously. Neither thought they had a chance. Both wanted national exposure to, wait for it, sell more books and up their speaking fees.
Surprise, each became the latest "not Mitt Romney" GOP candidate as the other rising stars of Bachmann, Perry shot to the sky and quickly fell to earth. What happens next to each shooting star is they become the focus of attention and in turn that focus reveals a lot of baggage and a certain ineptitude and incompetence. Now that Gingrich has replaced Cain as the "new not Mitt" hope, it will only be a matter of time before he steps in his own mess and his baggage is exposed again for all to see. Newt has more baggage than Romney has flip flops.
It was difficult to watch Herman Cain struggle so badly to answer a question about Libya, a very recent event. Does he not read newspapers or at least catch an evening news cast? This man is running for President and yet he was clueless about Libya--the only thing he knew was that he should say President Obama was wrong. Finally, the polls are beginning to reflect some sanity in the GOP with Cain's numbers dropping significantly the last month. Cain's "u-becki, becki, becki, stan stan" has circulated in foreign countries making him a laughing stock and in turn, proving the GOP is as ignorant and arrogant and dangerous as foreigners think they are.
Meanwhile, the smartest and most realistic "not Mitt" GOP candidates of Huntsman, Johnson go unnoticed and rarely receive a mention. Why? Because they aren't whack-a-do enough to satisfy the far right GOP.
Jody,
I wondered why Gingrich brought up Pope John Paul II twice in the debate on Saturday evening. I thought it was bizarre!!
It was not, just good business sense. Yesterday, he had a premier of his new documentary on "Pope John Paul"!!
Of course you could buy this CD in person or on line.
Gingrich and Cain are using the GOP primary race as a marketing tool to run their only business of self promotion.
Northstar, the ultimate scam on voters. Send them money to help them market themselves.
To Jody-Iowa-Great post-you nailed it on the head. Cain and Newt are businessman not interested in helping Americans unless you buy their books.
Newt is so full of himself he will explode, Cain does not know the difference between Libya or Listerine.
Backman needs to go back to school for history lessons. Rommney has no convictions to stay on one side of an issue.
I think Huntsman is the most intelligent but he will never get elected.
The last Bloomberg Poll (2 days ago) on the Iowa Caucus says this....
Quote:
"There’s good news in the poll for Paul, 76, a Texas congressman who has attracted ardent supporters. Among likely caucus-goers who say their minds are made up, Paul leads with 32 percent, followed by Romney at 25 percent and Gingrich, a former House speaker, at 17 percent.
Do your self a favor ,Google Republicans vs Democrats history, and Republicans vs Democrats last 12 years You will see the factual evidence why the Republicans are bad for our country
Nancy Pelosi is my hero. She is the Liberal POSTER CHILD for the stupid Democrats. She is the nutcase we can point to as the typical Democrat in Congress. Just get a load of those eyes. BRrrrrrr, creepy, to say the least.
Imagine where she would be in this world if left to her actual abilities. Instant bag lady, mumbling to herself??
Ms. Pelosi will be recorded as the most effective Speaker in US history. To top it off, she put more than 400 Bills through to the Senate that were all blocked. They blocked them all.
Since President Obama was sworn in the GOP Senate has filibustered at 3 times the pace ever seen in American history. They like to say that nothing gets done. They will also go down in history: For blocking 2 million Jobs during the Bush Great Recession.
Oh yes Backhouse, so true. Nancy Pelosi was a great speaker, and I hope she will return to the role as Speaker after we the people with common sense take the House back from these Radical Right Clowns.
Yes, please keep Pelosi in the House. we need the example she provides. And she never disappoints us. LOL
Joseph E. Parent
"Yes, please keep Pelosi in the House. we need the example she provides. And she never disappoints us. LOL"
Hey- this gem reminds me of the folks that said of Palin: WHY are you all so AFRAID of her"??
Ha Ha Ha Ha....
The tea people republicans don't have much to talk about, so they bring out their old worn out hate speeches from 2 years ago, how sad. Joseph i understand your anger, with candidates like you tea people republicans have to chose from it's fortunate you all are not in the nut house, but it's early it could still happen.
Yes Mo: but if the best hope your party had was this crop of mental and moral midgets...wouldn't YOU want to change the topic too?
Another sign the apocalypse is coming sooner than we think! This statement must be included in the dictionary of wacko liberal statements..... !
Obama Must Go..... now more than ever!
There's several liberals that really help the conservative cause.... Princess Nancy is at the top of that list!
How anyone can believe Ms. Nancy is one of the most effective Speakers in history is quite a claim to make. Nancy, with her ability to sell programs, i.e., 'We need to first pass the bill before we know what is in the bill' is simply amazing.
But, with her ability to generate earnings for the family is commedable. She's almost as great a money maker through the stock market as Hillary Clinton was with Hill's small investment and grand earning.
What about Huntsman? He's not been Flavor of the Month yet either.
Willard will be the nominee...just as soon as he figures out what he really believes in.
Don't worry...I suspect that any minute now the GOP will be reminded of why they don't like Newt.
It looks like Huntsman is not crazy enough for these Radical Right Clowns.
Huntsman, I believe, would be willing to make compromises. The GOP wants "My Way Or The Highway".
Willard needs to figure out who he is first. He's still trying to find himself. Every time he thinks he's found himself, the tea people republicans tell him that's not who he is, so he changes.
Among Independents Huntsman would be the logical choice and would give President Obama a good run for the job.He comes at issues with both logic and intellect.I personally thought he did a great job in the last debate for what little time he was afforded.
I'm a left leaning moderate, and I could see myself voting for Huntsman.
The last Bloomberg Poll (2 days ago) on the Iowa Caucus says this....
Quote:
"There’s good news in the poll for Paul, 76, a Texas congressman who has attracted ardent supporters. Among likely caucus-goers who say their minds are made up, Paul leads with 32 percent, followed by Romney at 25 percent and Gingrich, a former House speaker, at 17 percent.
Dave-2550157
But that is exactly why he polls so badly. He does look at the issues with logic and an attitude of understanding that you have to compromise to get the peoples work done.
This my way or the high way approach of the Republicans will certainly damage their brand. I have to laugh at the republican led house. They have done absolutely NOTHING for the 99% of the American people yet they seem to still hoodwink the conservative base. How amazing it that the republicans won the house in the last election; stated that the "will of the people" wanted to rescind the Health Care Reform and even though less than 50% wanted it recalled.
I have not heard, in almost a year, that chant about from congress that the "will of the people" want the Health Care Reform to be abolished. What I have heard from the populace is that tax increases, along with budgets cuts is needed. So what does this new congress do? Block the will of the people!
This is all in an effort to do ANYTHING they can to regain power. It is not about helping Americans it is about their desire for power and riches. Any small victory by President Obama is a major thorn in their lust for power.
I have never seen in my (almost 6 decades) such childish behavior from our leaders. The house republicans were so very quick to take credit for an uptick in the economy less than a week in office, but were just as quick to blame the president when the next slight dip occurred. The bottom line is you cannot make strides in a recovery of an economic disaster that was inherited if both sides are unwilling to actually work on the resolutions instead of the blame game.
There is no doubt that, for all you Obama haters out there, this recovery was going to take more than one election cycle no matter who the president was.
McCain and Palin would not have been any better and to think Palin could have been one heartbeat away from leading this country. I shudder at the thought.
The true Republican colors have become quite evident over the last few years and their depth on the bench really makes you ponder what water they are drinking. Perhaps it is de-regulated water filled with toxins.
I agree, I shudder at the thought that Biden is a heartbeat away also.
Wife,
I don't understand your comment. What has Joe done specifically to earn your 'shudder'? He's not terribly polished; but he's about as honest a politician as one could hope for. His experience losing his wife and daughter and representing Delaware for decades should count for something. Don't you think?
after newt is it like fashion and we start over with donald trump...
oh no...we don't have to see Sarah again do we?
Newt is like the leftover pea soup at the greasy spoon. Sure, it's the 'special of the day' but it's certainly not fresh.
Newt Ginrich is on par with Romney?? No surprise there. Newt has more intelligence than the entire Democratic party. He will make a fine Republican President for the next eight years.
Ginrich/Romney 2012. Yeah, sounds good.
yes ask his wives how smart he is....he does have and advantage he's got two heads and uses em both....he's only a good canidate for you guys because the others really really sucked....huh...
I offered this up yesterday. I now present it again for your sake...
you can't play that game for a year.....newt will have to answer questions especially now that he's a contender....and how's that worked for the other gop canidate having the lights shined on them has not been good to the good olde gop....he carry's more baggage than fed ex.. and it's not particular pretty....in a party that much more style over substance....the wife's the money grubbing self promotion for cash and the tiffany's thing isn't going to play well......not to mention that his individual mandate was the model for romney and obamacare....explain that one newtster...
Not to mention Newt Gingrich called Paul Ryan's grand plan--"right-wing social engineering", which is probably the most honest statement Newt has made in years. He's a smart man but he's a flame thrower and he is also often lacks real conviction just as does Romney.
I'm suddenly reminded of Doonesbury's symbol for Gingrich...a bomb with a lit fuse.
People who claim that Newt is intelligent clearly demonstrate that they are not and it's true that you can fool some people all of the time.
Jon - do you mean like the people that say Obama is smart. The great one gives a speach in Hawaii and says he is in Asia. Give the man back his teleprompter, without it he is lost. In a debate with Newt vs Obama on teleprompter, Newt wins hands down.
poor poor Doris: you're buying that stuff about teleprompters? THink you need to listen to someone else besides your fellow dittoheads because that's really ridiculous. It just shows how little of the President you've actually seen and heard. But that's fine. He's been underestimated before, and it resulted in his first landslide. You keep thinking ol' big belly Professor Newt there is going to bluster his way through...You obviously have never heard Newt outside his recent debates. (hint: There's a very good reason he has the blowhard, ridiculous reputation he has: he has worked very hard at earning it. If he isn't blaming the media, or throwing out absurdities his right wing nuts can't even follow, he works hard at dissing his fellow R's.) At least he can finish a sentence, so I can see why you'd be so impressed compared to your other choices on the R side.
14:59...tick, tick, tick!
When will the Republicans wise up and find a person who is smart enough to be president and will stand up to big business and their lobbying efforts? That is why we are in the mess we are in big business runs the country. For example Haliburton was sent to Iraq and Afghanistan with no bidding efforts and they made billions of dollars off this appointment and geez who personally benefitted none other than Dick Cheney and George Bush even though the profits were not in thier names it was ibn their families name. This happens with both parties and it needs to be stopped. By the way what is wrong with going to Home Depot or Lowes and buying toilet seats for $25.00 and not paying a government contractor hundreds of dollars or more for a toilet seat. It is time we all wake up and hire (by election) people who will stand up for us and not the big guy. Oh by the way the reason I wanted to comment was Newt Gingrich, he could not run congress as Speaker how in the hell can he run a nation? Both parties need to find some people who have brains and would be great at being our nations leaders. Get rid of all the buffoons and find some intellegent people not greedy people.
It's obvious the Democrats have not been able to make a difference by electing Hope and Change which turned out to be just more of what you talked about.
And of course the Republican/Tea Party Obstructionism Express had absolutely zero to do with keeping things from being enacted by the Senate and sent to the President to be signed into law?
Keep on spinning that "Lack of Hope and Change" line. Just be careful you don't hang yourselves with it.
Congressional Approval rating is at 9%. Last time I checked Congress wrote the laws, made the bills and sent them to the White House for signature.
Campaigning for Hope and Change was one thing. Getting handcuffed first by a filibuster happy Republican minority Senate and second by a minority Tea Party Caucus in the Republican dominated House has a lot to do with where America is today.
You can deny, lie, say what you will but Americans are seeing with their own eyes where the Republicans/Tea Party candidates and supporters loyalties lie and it isn't with the majority of Americans.
Newt Gingrich is old recycled Republican politics. He may be the most intelligent one of this crop of Republican "think they can be's", but he by no means is remotely qualified to sit as President of the United States.
How strange. . .
If HCR was filibustered and not enacted- why is it headed to the Supreme Court?
If stimulus was filibustered and not enacted, why did it increase the debt, create no jobs on this country- and subject of congressional hearings on the corruption of forking over fistfuls of taxpayer dollars to Obama donors- for firms that went bankrupt?
If all this stuff is imaginary, does that mean that the unemployment rate is not nine percent, the civilian labor force participation level is not down to 1983 levels, GDP is growing like gangbusters, and the debt did not climb by over four trillion dollars in two and a half years?
Wow. Could have fooled me.
And yet another blatantly obtuse and willfully ignorant posting by no joe.
The Republicans filibustered or threatened to filibuster almost everything that hit the floor making it necessary to have a filibuster proof majority to get anything passed. And since the Democrats didn’t have a filibuster proof majority you pretty much have to move heaven and earth to get things done. They did still manage to get a few things done that the Republicans didn’t like but it took a heroic effort.
And yet we have no joe acting like none of that went on.
I must agree with No Joe, No Bo, Nj.
Trillions of our hard earned dollars spent and nothing to show for it.
Does anyone ever reflect on the giant disparity between how diligently we do our tax returns..."let's see...should I round that dollar off, or give them exact change??" "No, better just round it up to the next whole dollar. Don't want Old Uncle Sam mad at me."
And then Obama gets your money and litterally throws it away. Disgusting.
ABO 2012.
does it really matter who's selling it. when what your selling is get rid of social security and medicare that 88% of the people want and need or raising taxes on the lower and middle income people with that bogus flat tax plan that serious conservative economist laughed off a dozen years ago.....and which reduces tax on the wealthly americans something 83% of the public said should pay more......that's a weiner guys sale that in the broad daylight to someone that's paying attention.....you conservative were better off not saying anything and running against the dems talking about what you think is a loser...
that for president i wont' be voting for r's in the house with there 9% approval especially since boehner decided to only work 109 days because of the election next year instead of 149 this year and 169 under pelosi...defend that gop..........have they done anything to deserve that
QUESTION: Mr. Cain, on foreign policy, what is Libya?
HERM: Liberals who voted for Dubya. It's plural.
QUESTION: Mr.Cain, where is Libya?.
HERM: There aren't many to be located in the GOP. The rest don't matter to book sales and speaker fees.
Can the teabagger bound republicans get anymore goofy with their love? Uncle Newtie is a serial philanderer with the moral compass of a gerbil...and before someone starts with the Clinto did it too...he's not running for president, newt the slut is running for president..
The Tea Party does not love Newt, He's old republican establishment/news....
the Tea Party likes Ron Paul.....
I suspect in the next six months everyone is going to have to pay attention to Ron Paul.....
The last Bloomberg Poll (2 days ago) on the Iowa Caucus says this....
Quote:
"There’s good news in the poll for Paul, 76, a Texas congressman who has attracted ardent supporters. Among likely caucus-goers who say their minds are made up, Paul leads with 32 percent, followed by Romney at 25 percent and Gingrich, a former House speaker, at 17 percent.
I've been watching this for a couple of weeks now, Paul's strength is growing as is his base.
WOW, how low can they go, the GOP is certainly scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
It won't take much to defeat Obama. Dopey Ronald Reagan managed to defeat Carter because of the dismal economy. The same forces are in play today, the Obama economy. The latest Obama excuse for the economy? Lazy Americans. The locker room will fall asleep if Coach Obama was trying to rally the team.
but there staying awake for snowwhite and the seven dwarfs debates they are so much better it's just hard to choose between them duh..
Keep holding on to the dismal economy will make the tea people republicans king Road Warrior. It hasn't worked and it won't work. The economy is improving despite the efforts of the tea people republicans to keep it dismal. If there was half of a brain in your entire party you would already know that.
Not to mention that anyone with a brain knows that the TEA party owns our credit downgrade due to turning a problem into a crisis during the debit ceiling negotiations. Right fight, WAY wrong time.
Only completely partisan hacks (of which there are plenty on here) try and blame that on Obama.
I differ with you slightly.
At the bottom of the barrel are ambulance chasing lawyers, CEO's who pocket hefty bonuses while the economy tanks, and obstructionists whose stated goal is to make the President a one-termer.
When you turn the barrel over, you will find Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Romney, Santorum and Gingrich. With them, in the muck and slime, are the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter, and Karl Rove as well.
oops--I was wrong.
McConnell and Boehner crawled out from under the barrel too.
Here's the last three paragraphs from an article about what Mitt Romney did for workers at one company. If he becomes president, I'm sure he'll bring all of his vast experience in the private sector to bear on doing for the rest of the country what he did for the workers at Dade International.
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/11/13/mitt_romney_s_management_style_fire_workers_acquire_debt.html
Romney's Bain Capitol acquired successful and highly profitable businesses, mortgaged them to the hilt to acquire other successful companies, and ultimately caused them to go bankrupt. No wonder he and his Bain pals were seen with money hanging out of their clothes. For them, it wasn't making a company a bigger success, it was using that company to make more money for Bain while allowing the previously profitable firm to collapse.
Jody:
There's a word for creatures like Romney and his colleagues at Bain who grow fat by sucking the life out of other things: parasites.
He worked hard and succeeded. Those employees obviously did not work hard. I mean, did they succeed? The American dream, work hard, succeed, and get fired because someone likes to gamble with their investments. I guess we need to forget that succeed part.
mitt's not a people person only interested in himself and money no stop the presses
The conservative candidates keep taking turns to be number two behind Romney, yet Romney cannot exceed 25% of the primary votes. That spells defeat for the Massachusetts liberal. Once a candidate has established himself or herself as a solid number two, then all the primary voters outside of the 25% Romney supporters will vote for that candidate.
i feel sorry for huntsman he seems like a good man he's just at the wrong time ...and timing's everything...
On Morning Joe today, Howard Dean suggested Huntsman maybe should have run on the Dem ticket. He's more 'middle of the road', than an extreme repub. The group laughed and basically agreed...it's not how good or qualified a person is, that will win the GOP nomination, but how popular (ie flavour of the month). It's pretty much appearance and magnetism, rather than substance for them.
I don't know much about Huntsman, but he did seem civilized when he started his campaign.
marc: wrong timing is right. The Republican party has been taken hostage by the extreme right. How does a moderate Republican even get heard these days? hard to imagine even Reagan not being called a RINO in the party today.
When does Rick Man-on-Dog (Don't Google His Last Name) Santorum get his chance to be the wingnuts' flavor of the month? It's just not fair that he hasn't gotten his turn yet.
Hi!
Long-time listener, first-time caller….
Before I begin, a few things to set in order right away:
• I would have to classify myself as a “liberal” (since I don’t believe that fiscal responsibility—which I advocate wholly—trumps social conscience—as a nation, we already look and act enough like China as it is…)
• I peruse these blogs frequently, and love the back-and-forth between the regulars (it IS one of the foundations of our society to civilly disagree…and what could be more civil than anonymously hollering and cursing at one another across a stream of bandwidth? It beats the heck out of meeting in the backs of buildings and garages and whipping crowds into lynching frenzies. For me, anyway).
• I’m an African-American male (of proper breeding age). I wouldn’t think it would matter, except as a matter-of-fact reference, but this IS America…and unfortunately, there’s still an awful lot of historical, physical, social and psychological baggage we all need to collectively dump in the nearest trashcan.
It’s always a good idea to stoke the fires of predisposed opinions…in the interests of CIVIL discourse, you know….
And with that …
I remember a September morning in 1989, when I was a senior in high school, like it happened just yesterday. I was getting ready for school, and “Good Morning America” was on the television in the living room (help me out—does anybody know if GMA is a liberal or conservative show? It’s not like FOX News doesn’t spell it out for me…but sometimes, I have to admit to sentimentality clouding my judgment from time to time…I always liked Joan Lunden…)
…they were running a story about the first electric car being built by somebody in Southern California, I think…the thing was categorically impractical (I don’t think that, even with a fully charged battery, it traveled more than a few hundred feet…maybe once around the block or something like that)…but I couldn’t help but feel that, in the very near future, we’d all be zipping around in some George Jetson-like vehicles. Science-fiction inching ever so closely to reality. The world would be a very different place than the one I was used to.
That’s not without significance…I grew up in a very poor neighborhood (read: housing project) with a mother too sick to work anymore and into her 50s in age, and wholly dependent on government assistance for basic survival. Sprinkle in a “liberal” dose of your garden-variety high-crime and high-unemployment environmental fruits, and a few other assorted nuts, and you had the makings of a very good salad of a disastrous life laid out on a big buffet table for me….
But I never really developed an appetite for that. I’d always had hope. My mother had it. She showed me what it would take, mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually, to change the conditions of my life. There would be opportunities for me, but I had to seize them. That’s what she always said to me and my younger brother…we could do anything we wanted to with our lives. Our lives would largely be what we would make them. Turns out she was right.
(Incidentally, a quick story about my mother…she never got anything more than a 2nd or 3rd grade level education—she had younger brothers and sisters to look after, so school was more of a luxury than a responsibility—different time and place the 1930s in America was, especially for a black person….but from the time I knew her until the past few years….she would always vote Republican. This was never more apparent to me than during the 1984 election, where Ronald Reagan won that election with so many red states on the TV screen that I thought the thing was broken…my mother took great pride in that victory. She was thrilled with the opportunity to go and cast her vote. She cheered every time a state popped up with Reagan declared the winner.
All she would say was “My vote counted! My vote made the difference!”
She probably didn’t really care a lick about Reagan’s policies, but she did like the fact that he mentioned God very frequently in his speeches. She told me that anybody who talked that much about God wasn’t bad or wrong. I’ll leave that morsel where it is, but again, the point was evident for me—my mother took pride in her ability to exercise a basic right that, I’m sure during the course of her life, she had been overtly denied repeatedly. She ALWAYS felt that she was American. She felt she had a stake in this country. That she belonged here. That her sons had a stake in this country and belonged here. Functional illiteracy or poverty be damned. We lived in a place and at a time where we could do whatever we sought out to do, she’d say. You can’t make stuff like that up. And you can’t put a price tag on it. But I’ve digressed enough…)
…This moment is so vivid to me, because it was close to something I watched on a TV show recently (“That “70’s Show”, a great show about nothing!), where the seminal “Red” Forman…middle-aged, under-employed, factory-working, ex-military Midwestern Caucasian family man…got to ask President Gerald Ford at a town hall meeting in his small hometown of Point Place, Wisconsin, why the hell he pardoned Richard Nixon. Forman actually wanted to ask the President why he didn’t have the rocket cars and life on Mars he was promised after he came home from the Korean War.
It was funny, but eerily reminiscent of the way things have been in Washington for the past 10 years in particular (but could probably be traced back to before the beginning of the Reagan presidency)…you know, this sense that, somehow, this America isn’t the one so many people fought and died abroad for, and those who worked in its administrations and council halls and neighborhoods dreamed about it becoming. Somehow, somewhere, it seems to me, that BEING American isn’t the same thing as DOING American things anymore.
A sure sign of an identity crisis, if there ever was one.
Our SOCIAL CONSCIENCE, not our financial portfolios or military superiority, is what makes our nation the envy of the world. Our country hasn’t survived for more than two hundred years (where it could be reasonably argued that such a feat, with the technological advances in the world since World War II, is uniquely remarkable), simply because we had bigger guns than everybody else (although I don’t doubt for a minute that it helped). We didn’t become the leader of the free world until we learned, and more importantly, DID, what our creed as a nation always says we could and should do.
Provide for the common defense.
Promote the general welfare.
Secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and our posterity.
People spend so much time revising and deciphering the Bill or Rights or the Second Amendment that they forget that what the Constitution’s really about is spelled out in its Preamble, with an eloquence and conciseness in meaning rivaled only by some passages of Scripture, to me. It’s like Christians who fail to understand that everything in both the Old and New Testaments points to the author of that faith (Jesus Christ), and should serve to illuminate those human elements of interpretation and implementation of spiritual edicts that was Christ’s mission to clarify, rectify, or outright condemn.
America is in a constant state of evolution and flux and growth because every so often, we need to be reminded of WHO we are as a nation, as much as we need to be roused into action to DO things as a nation that accurately reflect who we are. And that’s a good thing. We shouldn’t ever have gotten into the habit of putting the profit-making cart before the social-caring horse.
When we stop caring about one another as Americans….when it is determined that some of us deserve the blessings of liberty and some of us don’t….when who we are is for sale to the highest (or in China’s case, lowest) bidder….
…when the WHY isn’t as important anymore as the WHAT or the HOW…..
…when bleeding-heart liberals and cold-hearted conservatives take turns with the national defibrillator and make our collective differences more important than our similarities…..
….well, then, maybe that’s why I should consider moving my family to Sweden.
At least there, the crazed, racist gunmen are nice enough to politely lie to your face right before they blow your brains out. It’s probably the best way to go, if you gotta. Nobody really wants to see it coming. The injection or the electricity or the gas or even the rope finishes the job, but the actual dying starts long before that.
I don’t believe that proper applications of economic principles from either the supply or demand side of the equation alone will solve what ails most Americans. The answer to most of these things, in practical terms, lies as it always does between extremes….somewhere in the middle. Our country and our people are too large and too diverse for anything else to work. And by default, to therefore govern effectively a nation and populace so large and diverse, the middle of the road (whether it is slightly left or right) is about the most sensible place to be. Not to mention the only way to get anything going in a direction other than over the side of a cliff.
And our country and our people are too large and too diverse—and too hearty and too trustworthy and too dedicated and too loving—to suggest that divide-and-conquer treatises or tear-it-all-down-and-start-over gambits would do anything more (especially in a time of shared tension and apprehension among those whom such fomented sentiments would do the gravest harm) serves any cause that is just, right, or acknowledged and honored and blessed by God.
If the desire to end a potentially protracted and costly conflict with Imperial Japan before it began 60 years ago spurred the inception of the atomic bomb….and the fear to catch up to the Russians on the moon before they turned it into a borsch-selling communist colony created our space program….and the need to begin to socially reconcile itself with an African-American segment of its populace who had largely spent the prior 150 years of this country’s existence as either “property”, or in the gentile vernacular of the Confederacy that dares you to tell them they lost the Civil War “…the help…” could begin to establish some consensus form of civil rights for all its citizens (even the dark ones, like me)….
…then there’s certainly no amount of “regulation” that could seriously hope to stop this country from rethinking, reimagining, and reinventing what works for the common good.
If it’s about how much money is made or lost in the enterprise…instead of how much good the enterprise would do for everyone….
…then “big business” has won already. They won the day they started to say that it’s a more “business-friendly” climate in China—whose government has its regular populace working at pre-1910 conditions in relation to ours…and have the nerve to tell the country that provided them the very opportunity to be opportunistic and “seek the best deal” that we won’t deal with you because your asking price is too high. I’d gotten a notion to call that biting the hand that feeds you, but I’m told that anybody that knows how to make money isn’t anywhere near being THAT stupid…..
It’s not the ideas themselves. Or who shares in the commitment or the sacrifice.
It’s the fact that the OPPORTUNITY to practice them exists. And that opportunity only exists, in all the world, in the United States of America.
That’s why the rest of the world tends to look at us like we don’t recognize the smell our own excrement makes. We’ll openly try to criticize the governments of other nations on how the other half (or actual, â…”) lives in their countries, and throw in with the very governments that perpetuate that injustice because…well, it’s a hard deal to beat…and subsequently create similar conditions here that we supposedly abhor everywhere else.
Only American moxie could sell juice like that on the open market and make any money off of it.
Freeing the slaves here was as much about money (the Confederacy protecting their “ass”-ets—and here’s one Texan hoping that the South doesn’t rise again), as it was about human dignity. Seems like there’s a fine line between what it’s worth and what it costs around here, isn’t there?
We talk a good game, don’t we? Free markets. Ownership. Personal Responsibility. Socialism. Debts and Deficits. Leading from behind. Hostage-taking.
All fancy, high-falutin’ ways of saying that the standard we, as Americans, have set for the dignity of human beings to live and prosper materially and socially (the same standard that has people risk being here against the law than staying in their own country to suffer)….the standard only some of us deserve and only some of us have earned and some of us have shamelessly outlived….
…is costing too much.
Capitalism isn’t what makes America great. A government (and more precisely, a SPIRIT) which allows us as one nation and one people to determine the best course for the lives of us all, with equal regard for the well-being of us all, with equal attention and affection toward us all…no matter the cost...in life, limb or property…is what makes us great.
The SPIRIT of government (the right for people to choose for themselves the best ways to live in peace with one another), is what the founding fathers of our Constitution envisioned in its drafting. Not a summarily Christian theocracy, but the SPIRIT of freedom that, once realized and experienced by even the “lowliest” of human beings in their station, works on its own to forge for itself the conditions here on earth needed for it to not only survive…but to thrive and endure.
‘’..on Earth as it is in Heaven…” is part of the prayer Jesus prayed, if I remember my Sunday school correctly. Heaven looks a whole lot different than some of us wish it does, I bet. Five’ll get you twenty that they do things a bit differently there than we’re currently doing them here. And here I always thought that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery.
We don’t have a problem getting a consensus under a fanatical (if somewhat understandable, given the events of September 11, 2001) impulse to stampede into two countries against the will of NATO (“Coalition of the Willing”? Angola? REALLY? Does anybody even know where that is?) and take 6 or 7 years to figure out that maybe we could have taken a minute or two (and saved a few hundred billion dollars and a few thousand lives that we could really use right about now) to decide if we were really going to do any good waving a big stick at those backward Middle-Eastern peasants who must have had something to do with killing innocent American women and children, whether we could actually prove it or not.
I mean, aside from “shocking” and “awe-ing” the heck out of everybody.
There’s a passage of scripture that Jesus mentioned to his disciples about the persistent plight of the poor. In case the right wing of the Republican party missed it in between the ravings of John Hagee or Pat Robertson, Christ said something about the poor always being among us. Jesus’ view on poverty was not what most Christians nowadays seem to think it ought to be. He felt that such a state existed not so much because of wickedness, laziness or stupidity on the part of the poor, or even because of a sense of dwindling natural resources, but more from wickedness, selfishness and greed from those who were rich. I always felt that, if you were going to follow a particular creed (like Christianity, for example), you might want to follow the advice and actions of its founder. You know, just to make sure you know what it is you’re getting into.
I forget that a lot of us think that might makes right. If might doesn’t SERVE right, though…well, Rome’s burning is going to look a lot like a weiner roast (…had to say it!) compared to when it happens around here….
If there’s one question I’d like to ask any elected official (particularly someone in the Federal Government’s Department of Transportation), not to mention some of the heads of the industries this nation was built around, who can admittedly see the profit margins of such endeavors more clearly than I can, it would be this:
Where the hell is my electric car? Have you seen gas prices lately?
(Well, okay, maybe TWO questions…I get to vote, too!)
SHUT UP, YOU DOPE!!
- Mark Levin
Welcome. Wonderful post.
Welcome to the mud pit Marc00! ;o)
Good post. A little longer than the norm, but, nonetheless, pretty good. You'll have to excuse dolts such as Road Warrior who apparently are of the proponents that believe in 'might make right' and you'll win the debate if you yell louder than the other guy. This, as you may have guessed, is the mud pit part as so aptly noted by Feisty Redhead.
Well, a well worded post that seems to accurately reflect the ignorance of the liberal mind as to BOTH the Constitution and Christianity all in the same posting.
This post is indicative of the real battle that those of us who actually appear to have read and studied both the Constitution and the Bible are engaged in. this destructive form of liberalism will only fade away through a genuine education of people and not the brainwashing so many have received.
Well said Marco.....I gladly extend my hand and call you a friend.
Larry
Please explain.
82nd Airborne
1. the General Welfare clause has NOTHING to do with application to the general well being of the citizenry
– James Madison, Letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792
In Federalist 41 Hamilton argued that the “general welfare” clause could not be used to expand the federal government beyond what was intended.
As to Christianity, it is the spirit of Anti-Christ to suggest that we surrender our personal responsibilities to govt
Helping the needy for Christians must come from the heart and be done as unto Jesus Himself (Matthew 25, Isaiah 58, and others). You are advocating something very UNCHRISTIAN which is socialism by wanting it to be done by compulsion and theft, it amounts to asking Christians to sin by putting our trust and glory to man/government instead of God. You cannot glorify God as Christians are not only required to do, but love doing, when you transfer the glory from God to man. Nor are you doing it as unto Christ.
Matthew 25:40
having the govt seize our property and redistributing it to glorify man/govt is a sin and contrary to the teachings of Jesus
and in 2 Corinthians 9:6-15
Isaiah 58:6-7
Larry Robinson :bible and brainwashing in the same comment how ironic
God belief IS ignorance Larry.
Great post marcoo. Welcome and ignore the conservative blather.
If republicans were as smart as they claim to be, we wouldn't have all this debt. Looks like Cheney repeating that deficits don't matter didn't make it true.
Now the new favorite lie is that it was President Obama who destroyed our country and not the republicans in congress who voted for multiple tax cuts for the richest during war time. Never in the history of our nation had we had a congress so stupid as to cut taxes during war time.
Maybe the biggest republican lie is that they are smart enough to run this country anywhere, except into the ground.
Obama/Biden 2012
Best post I`ve read in a long time.
Although , I think Obama will win , I think Obamacare is the pits . What Obamacare does is take from those who had half way decent Medicare benefits and reduces the benefit by making doctor prove up is a direction other than down , or make work , so that the real losers are those who paid for Medicare through social security , and winners under Obamacare are those that never paid into Social Security Like most of the taxi cab drivers working for cash, and loads of other cash workers . After all the cash workers will get Obama care with no payments in the system . The Republicans who want to build a wall in Mexico US border got it right with the cash worker who go back and forth across the border , now the don't under Obama Care , after all they will get their care here , everyone gets free care under ObamaCare . Oh , they will tell you they will pay something , but this is not the way it works . There is the part time pay and the full time crew on construction . The contractor pay is the way the contractor wants it . The contractor put together crews . ObamaCare is s Joke on those who hold regular jobs and work full time . Maybe even the Black will figure this out. Healthcare now thanks to Obamacare is chasing good doctors who accepted medicare to want to privately paid and are off of Medicare asking them to provide tons of medical records to prove what is provable to them before and not accepted each time it is asked for . Newt is probable the best of the lot as he says , " it is mater of maturity " and Obamacare is a show of not caring about causes and effects , and Obama has proved to be hurtful to the working people and their possible health care in retirmement .
American is a split country from our inception. The Declaration of Independence is a uplifting document. It says to me what the founding fathers wished for our country. Enlightenment personified- all men created equal and the function of government is to allow humankind to have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Then we have the constitution. Faced with the realities of governance we have the blacks counted as 3/5's of a human being, slavery allowed to continue, voting limited to white men of property.
So which country do we want. I for one vote for the declaration. The constitution is a political method to achieve a country and governed on compromise and not principle.
Chuck-922708
Your premis is ALL wrong about the health care reform. Show me ONE place in the document that aligns with you misguided statements. It has nothing to do with Social Security and the who purpose of the Coverage Mandate was so that you would not get a free ride at the expense of the rest of the citizens.
We need to remain a compassionate country but there are so many people that do not get coverage(even though they can afford it) and then expect that they have medical care in an emergency.
If everyone is covered than the actuary tables also help bring the overall costs down. The CBO, least you forget stated savings into the trillions over 10 years. The problem I have is that the Public Option should have been included because that would force competition and keep the insurance companies honest.
Let's see how much you hate the Health Care reform should you have a pre-existing condition, change jobs and still be totally covered. Without it you might not be able to get coverage or the care you need to survive. How about that son or daughter of yours that is out of a job and is now covered until they are 26?
Sounds like a real disaster to me! Perhaps if the top 1-2% did not control our politicians and tax rates, such a health care plan might just work and be for the betterment of our society as a whole.