11-11-11 only happens once in a hundred years…

Today also happens to be Veteran's Day & we will celebrate the brave men & women who have fought for our freedoms past & present!

Some paid the ultimate price…

A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself.

Joseph Campbell

Some came home altered from when they left...

Valor is stability, not of legs and arms, but of courage and the soul.

Michel de Montaigne

In honor of the families of our hero's I will leave you with this…

I dream of giving birth to a child who will ask, Mother, what was war?

Eve Merriam

Take the time to *hug* a vet today!

Today 11.11.2011 is Veterans Day and I want to thank all Veterans Past, Present and the Future for their service to this great country. I want to thank you for your sacrifice, dedication and loyalty to the principles that have made this country the World Leader that we are in individual freedoms and prosperity. I want to thank you for keeping my family and friends safe from harm every day with little or no regard for yourself.

You are all heroes and we as a country owe you a debt that we cannot ever pay. You are our most precious blood and I am proud to acknowledge your gallant sacrifices this day.

Today in Vermont I heard some very disturbing news in that a 35 year old Veteran took his own life at one of the protest sit ins against Wall Street at our City Park. The pundits on the radio chastised this individual and all people who were expressing their constitutional right to gather together in peaceful protest. The very rights that this brave individual served and fought for. He was promised a job when he came back and got nothing. He was basically kicked to the curb as a reward for his 4 tours of duty. This my friends is wrong and has saddened me deeply this day. Our Service People deserve better than this. For those of you that have the power, do not just thank a Veteran today – “Hire One”.

So today I thank all Veterans for their service. Those of you on active duty I hope you come home soon to rejoin your families and friends.

May God be with you all and thank you again.

God Bless this great Nation and especially our Citizens that have put on a uniform to defend our freedoms.

IR- wonderful post. And, it deserves to hold down the 'first post' on "First Thoughts" on "First Read" this blessed Friday.

Veterans everywhere: Thank you so much. Words are never enough.

(unless they come from Jim DeMint, of course).

Happy Veterans Day to Our Veterans

President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama will host a breakfast for veterans at the White House. To the complainers on the right; this is not pandering! It has been done before.

Perry is a dolt. It is hard to imagine any president has an IQ lower than GW Bush. But it seems to be true about Perry.

Perry's not knowing what was inconsequential in the government proves he is not fit to be president. He is making the TV circuit in order to correct his brain freeze by making a parody of himself.

Rick Perry, on Letterman show, blames debate gaffe on 'El Nino'

No. 6: "You try concentrating with Mitt Romney smiling at you. That is one handsome dude!"

No. 5: "Uh, El Nino?"

No. 4: "I had a 5-hour Energy drink six hours before the debate."

No. 2: "I wanted to help take the heat off my buddy Herman Cain."

No. 1: "I just learned Justin Bieber is my father."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/11/politics/perry-gaffe/index.html?eref=rss_politics&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+Politics%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pz7JDSW0u8

=================================================

Real funny; but Perry still needs to get serious. Especially with his tall tales about what Perry calls a failed ‘stimulus’ plans and other misguided economic theories have given us record debt and left us with far too many unemployed.

Perry and other Republican governors used the stimulus to balance their budget plus 40 % of the stimulus was tax cuts. So much for tax cuts creating jobs; otherwise Republicans wouldn't be asking-- "where are the jobs?"

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2012-presidential-election/love-hate-thing-stimulus-money/

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/apr/24/barack-obama/president-obama-says-gov-perry-used-stimulus-fund-/

Ooops, nearly forgot:

Courtesy of the Obama photo diaries regarding another dolt; Hermain Cain

http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/yukeq-slma-91.jpg?w=600&h=467

"Some came home altered from when they left..

Feisty- there is a sign above the entrance to the Vet's Hospital in Des Moines IA that reads "The cost of freedom is visible here".

Much appreciation to our troops!

Bev, Perry is a stumbling rock in this thing called life. The Republican Party is stumping their collective toe by thinking he was their white knight. @!$%# Rock and lack of "Energy" put that puppy to rest. Oh and the drunk rant in New Hampshire.

11-11-11! What a grand date to honor our veterans and to remember this nation has not been at war for 66 years. With the unconditional surrender of the Japanese on September 2, 1945, World War II ended. My wife's father and my father both served in the Pacific. The horror of war ended for them and for millions of other American G.I.'s - the men and women I believe to have been the most courageous veterans we have ever known. September 2, 1945. No more war.

Yet, my wife's uncle was killed in Korea, along with almost 39,000 other G.I.'s. My uncle made it back safely, only to be shot by a "hunter" stateside.

I was a guest in SEA. More than 58,000 American G.I.'s were killed there, among them a number of my high school classmates.

I remember Lebanon, Grenada, Cuba, Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia. We have been sending our troops - our fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, husbands, wives - OUTSIDE our borders for most of my lifetime. We have killed literally millions of people and we have NOT been at war. Look at this list! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

Only a fool can conclude that our actions, our willingness to send our G.I.'s abroad to wreak havoc and mayhem across the planet brings peace. It does not. It brings sorrow, grief, despair, and death. It does not bring peace. It brings us grievously wounded - physically and mentally. It does not bring peace. We leave behind death, destruction, and can anyone be so blind to imagine we don't leave a lingering hatred for America?

No war for 66 years, yet millions have died at our hands. Our Constitution says only Congress - our lawmakers - can declare war...Not our President, not our Supreme Court - Congress and Congress alone. Yet, these gutless bastards have found a way to send thousands of Americans to their deaths and keep the world on a knife's edge of planet-wide conflagration. They have given us a towering monument of cowardice called the War Powers Act. "Don't blame us, we have washed our hands of responsibility. It's someone else's fault." That's our Congress: Chicken hawks, cowards, liars, and outright punks.

Peace? Peace through strength? Not on a veteran's life. Here's the truth from a General Officer, a Medal of Honor winner. Please read this. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c1

If you really want to thank a veteran, I think the best way to do that is to take a few moments to write to your representatives and tell them, "Bring our G.I.'s home."

P.S. Independent Redneck: My bride hails from Emporia. She's decked out today in dog tags and all kinds of other little mementos.

IR--thanks for sharing that historical perspective. I can get on board with the ravioli tradition, for sure!

Thanks to all who have served and are serving and thanks also to their families, who endure separations, financial hardships and sometimes the loss of a loved one for our nation.

To all the FR posters who are veterans or family members-----whatever your political affiliation---thanks for your service and patriotism.

Whatever our differences, I think on a day like today we can all agree on our love for this great country and those who serve it.

President Obama deserves a Thank You for keeping his promise & bringing our troops home from Iraq in time for the holidays!

Now let's get to work on getting out of Afghanistan ASAP!

PS: Thanks for sharing that DBO! ;o)

Excellent, IR! Wonderful reminder and tribute for Veterans Day.

Feisty, yes, President Obama deserves a big thank you for bringing our troops home from Iraq and beginning the draw down in Afghanistan. They'll be home for Christmas!

The Caretaker is out of here for the rest of the day and the weekend. Got to visit some Old Friends.

As always my thanks and appreciation to our hosts for their time, giving me a little place to stand, a subject to comment on, a forum to put it in, and their indulgence when I don’t quite get it right or get a little off subject. I purely do appreciate it. Hope you’ll have a fine weekend and good fun among folks that you know and love. To my fellow participants keep well, keep safe, and keep the faith. We’ll make it. See you’ll next week

Buzzy I know it’s early but how’s about hitting D-12 for me. That would be the great Kate Smith and “God Bless America”

Independent Redneck Va.

The 11^th hour of the 11^th Day of the 11^th Month.

Thank You for giving me a Spirit, an Ideal and an Idea that is the United States of America.

And Thank You my Brothers and Sisters both past and present for keeping the faith.

Greater love hath no man that he would be willing to lay down his very life for friend and country.

Independent Redneck Va.

What a beautiful post. Although, I have to admit the first part of it made me hungry.

Thank you to all veterans on this very special Veteran's Day. May we honor you by continuing to seek peace.

A little off topic this morning, but again, not really.

If you have a few minutes, here is a video -- a little long, I admit -- made by Wisconsin's Department of Public Instruction, and featuring teachers and administrators and parents from several different school districts. These people who -- unlike our undereducated governor -- actually KNOW something about education give you a measured and compelling look at what has happened to Wisconsin education as a result of Governor Walker's drastic budget cutting and assault on teachers. And this is just the first wave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLneXQW4-Jc

For all of you naysayers, it's time to face the truth. As one administrator points out ....

Our students are going to graduate from high school with a global disadvantage ...

You pretend you care about the future of our children, but you don't.

You only care about yourselves. As you sow, so shall you reap.

You are leaving our children behind.

Heartfelt thanks, respect and gratitude to all who serve or have served our Country. Our flag flies in your honor always. Happy Veterans Day!

My grandpa served in WWII. Although I remember him as a colorful jovial man who loved baseball and his Country he never talked about his time spent in the war with us kids. My guess is he felt we were too young to hear about such things. What he did convey when stating he was a veteran was a deep sense of love for his Country. Something I remember always. Today, my elderly neighbor, a WWII veteran, shares some of his experiences during that time with me and I am grateful because somehow it brings me closer to my grandpa in both heart and spirit.

Many thanks to all of our Veterans and God bless you and the United States of America.

My father fought in Italy in WWII. He was wounded, came home and succumbed to his wounds after six long years of slow decline due to his injuries and died just months before I was born.

Veterans day is a good start, but it is not enough to recognize the sacrifice and suffering of those who serve in our military or those they leave behind.

Thank you Vets, you deserve so much more.

As to todays topic, told you so, told you so, told you so. (What me gloat?) I've been saying for months that Mitt is the guy and that is the best news an Obama supporter can have today. Go Mitt, go. You may now shower me with accolades for my preciense. (sp?) Sorry, I worked in broadcasting, I only have to know how to say it, I don't need to know how to spell it.

Obama/Biden 2012

"Buzzy I know it’s early but how’s about hitting D-12 for me. That would be the great Kate Smith and “God Bless America”"

Gladly, Cap'n. While I'm at it........

Got a few requests to bring to the DDI tonight from some folks that were peeling around in one of those clown-cars today:

Some old cranky guy that went by the name ‘Newt’ requested Grand Funk’s “Mean Mistreater” be played, and dedicated to, the Mainstream Media.

Some lady named M. Bawkmann requested ‘Crazy’ by my favorite, Patsy Cline.

A Rick Perry asked to hear Beverly Bremer’s 1971 hit “Don’t Say You Don’t Remember”.

There was a request from some pizza guy for Three Dog Night’s “Easy to be Hard”. (he said if we didn’t have a copy of that, could we play the old 60’s novelty song by the Pipkins- “Gimme Dat Ding”)

A Ron-somebody asked to hear Helen Reddy’s “Leave Me Alone (Ruby Red Dress)”.

A Mitt somebody asked for that old Lovin’ Spoonful hit “Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind?”

Hope we can work them all in- lots of goon ones on this list today.

Beautiful as always, IR. A nation gives thanks to all those still serving, those who have already come home, and especially to those who never did.

The borough where I work always has a great parade, but this year, on 11/11/11, the parade kicks off at - you guessed it - 11:11am. And Joe and Jill Biden will be there. If my boss comes looking for me, tell him I'm taking an early lunch!

I hope everyone remembers Veterans Day. We who are Veterans have a right to celebrate today (perhaps a few totties) ;-).

Well it looks like the Republican ticket is set with Mitt Romney. Congrades and good luck, you'll need it.

Too bad they couldn't chose Huntsman, he was the only real candidate among all the other clowns. They will regret it.

Another interesting read for a casual Friday --

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-the-rich-20111109

The staggering economic inequality that has led Americans across the country to take to the streets in protest is no accident. It has been fueled to a large extent by the GOP's all-out war on behalf of the rich. Since Republicans rededicated themselves to slashing taxes for the wealthy in 1997, the average annual income of the 400 richest Americans has more than tripled, to $345 million – while their share of the tax burden has plunged by 40 percent. Today, a billionaire in the top 400 pays less than 17 percent of his income in taxes – five percentage points less than a bus driver earning $26,000 a year. "Most Americans got none of the growth of the preceding dozen years," says Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize-winning economist. "All the gains went to the top percentage points."

Let me say once again, thank you to all veterans for your service. May we actually achieve the peace that you have sacrificed so much to achieve. May we always live up to the ideals that you fought for.

Chuck Todd is a DISGRACE to journalism.

It's VETERANS day... how about highlighting the SRVICE of the CANDIDATES... WAIT... there you would have to mention... Ron PAUL and we all know your bosses might FIRE you if you actually SAID his NAME in a positive light.

So many beautiful posts honoring our veterans! All I can say is "thank you" to the men and women who have made so many sacrifices for our country--our soldiers and their families...

and to all those who have and are serving THANK YOU!

I wrote this is a different post, but here it is again:

A thought on Veterans Day

Over the past decade it has become de rigueur to thank veterans for their service. The first time it happened to me was eight years ago this month when I went through an airport scanner. Somehow the guy with the scanner connected the fact that I was headed to Viet Nam with my being a vet, and he stepped back and saluted me. His action shocked—and embarrassed—me.

Undoubtedly there are many servicemen and women who welcome the thanks. And that’s fine. But a lot of us—perhaps particularly those of us who served in Viet Nam—are uncomfortable with it. I have no doubt that the gratitude is genuine. Nonetheless it feels gratuitous, more a salve for the conscience of those who did not/are not making a sacrifice than for those who did or are.

I would like to suggest a more meaningful way of thanking veterans. Make an annual pilgrimage to a veterans’ hospital or home where broken people lie forgotten by society. It may give you pause the next time the hounds of war rear their ugly heads. It may also prompt you to contact your congressional representative when the budget cutters want to renege on the promises they made when they cheerfully waved flags and sent our troops off to a foreign land.

To those of you who already do these things, veterans owe you a thank you.

Pax

"President Obama deserves a Thank You for keeping his promise & bringing our troops home from Iraq in time for the holidays!" - Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Funny how Feisty ignores the fact that it was President Bush's promise as he was the one that negotiated the withdraw of troops, not Obama.

If you're going to give credit Feisty, give credit where it is due, instead of bowing at an altar with some ginned up attribution to somebody who just followed a plan that was already in place.

no joe, no bo, nj===I wonder why Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush41and Bush43 didn't put FDR"s proclamation on the Memorial? Please let me know why they did not.

Today is my late father's birthday. He served in the Pacific Navy during WW II. Thanks Dad and happy birthday. And thank you especially to all veterans off WW II. Most Americans alive today will never comprehend the immensity of your sacrifice. You were indeed our greatest generation. That's all I can say.

Um, because it's a new memorial? Because it was installed in 2004- so how could Eisenhower, et als, have included it? Because it was overlooked by the committee responsible for the design?

p>

You don't know much, do you? No wonder you're willing to vote to continue nine percent unemployment, a staggering recovery, 25 million unemployed or underemployed. . .

Jack -- It is a sad day in our Country when politicians work to cut benefits of veterans. Disgusting is a better word for their actions.

NJNB -- Once again you bring rain.

Terrific comments and thanks by all today.

Local MIA Veteran Remembered. Today's front page story showed a picture of a young man who graduated high school one year before me along side a photo of a Missing in Action bracelet inscribed with his name. Sheila Anderson, a Goodwill employee was processing some jewelry donated when she found it. "I've never seen one in person...I knew it was something sacred so I gave it to my boss".

Vietnam era MIA bracelets were engraved with the name, rank, branch of service, date of the last known mission, and the country in which served. The boss, Al Furguson, used the internet to track down the family. The bracelet was returned to his sister whom I know well because she was my aunt's best friend.

The young Air Force man was on a mission to rescue a fallen pilot on December 25, 1968. The young rescuer was wounded while repelling from a helicopter but he continued the effort despite his wounds. The men were being pulled to safety when the cable snapped and both the rescued pilot and rescuer fell to the ground. To this day, no one knows what happened to either because when another chopper returned, there was no one to rescue. As Mr. Furguson said, "here it was Christmas and he was still out serving his country and trying to rescue another soldier".

Never forgot.

I'd like to say this veteran's day that we still need to take better care of our vets. And I mean from the vet's hospital, to supporting them when they get back home, to thanking them, and to getting them the jobs they need, particularly since employers seem to still not follow the law in regards to making sure they get their jobs back.

Remember, you can support vets in the field and it doesn't take buying a bullet-proof vest. Even sending canned food, like canned fruit, goes a long way. Our soldiers are still out there in the field, even if in some places things are winding down. Its not like they aren't in harms way.

Here's to remembering those who serve. Thank you.

Cain's Foreign Policy: Russian hands and Roman fingers! Simple but effective... If that doesn't work, beat them into submission with a Cain....

MSNBC says that Romney has a clear path to the nomination so it MUST be true... Oh, wait, there is that other guy in the race. You know, the US Air Force veteran that wins every poll that ACTUAL people vote in. What's his name again? That's right it's Doctor Ron Paul.

If you want to support the veterans support Ron Paul for president.

Veterans Day Money Bomb is going on now. Please donate if you are able to.

Last month was the 22nd month where deaths for the month in Afghanistan exceeded the worst month for deaths in the over 7 years under Bush ..... all for a cause that Obama will walk away from.

More than twice the deaths under Obama .... all for a political calculation - all for a cause that Obama will walk away from.

Honor the troops ..... next November, give them a Commander in Chief worthy of their them, not this this pathetic, putrid excuse of a CiC they have now.

They deserve it.

America deserves it.

The world needs it.

LouisJ 2.0

Much appreciation to our troops!

Bev, Perry is a stumbling rock in this thing called life. The Republican Party is stumping their collective toe by thinking he was their white knight. @!$%# Rock and lack of "Energy" put that puppy to rest. Oh and the drunk rant in New Hampshire.

LouisJ 2.0

I wonder if Gov-Oops-Killer- in Chief, Perry, can do the same with his white pointed hat? I'm not talking about a dunce hat either.

Derek -- You speak beautifully when you want to. Thanks for your post today.

".... not this this pathetic, putrid excuse of a CiC they have now."

Bob- that's a completely assh*le thing to say.

Sorry, other posters- and I may get deleted or at least collapsed, but it had to be said, and it had to be accurate.

Dont_carry_it_all

Jack -- It is a sad day in our Country when politicians work to cut benefits of veterans. Disgusting is a better word for their actions.

Dont_carry_it_all,

I told you there would some un-patrotic remarks .

NJNB -- Once again you bring rain.

With that dreary personality what else would become her?

Happy Veterans Day. I am blessed to be able to hug my Veteran every single day. A special prayer for all our men and women who serve our country.

@Mike in SA

I know it's hard for you to believe but it was one of Pres. Obama's campaign promises. Agreed Bush initiated the pull out but the President is fulfilling one of his campaign promises.

Wow, a candidate that actually does what he says instead of the current crop of candidates today that are led by flip-floppers and misogynists.

Thank you all for (mostly) keeping the first comment thread about the veterans and not about politics.

Thank you to the veterans who are still serving. Your commitment to doing what needs to be done makes it possible for everyone else, everywhere in the free world to be free.

Thank you to the veterans who have served, returned home healthy, and are now part of civilian life.

Thank you to the veterans who have left a part of themselves somewhere else in the world.

Thank you to the families of the veterans who have not returned home.

God Bless you one and all.

Why would delegates decide to nominate Romney? Even if he is nominated, it doesn't mean he'll be elected. We'll probably know which way the wind blows by Jan. 3 after the Iowa Caucus. That's when the rubber will meet the road.

Bev -- You make me smile! BTW - Great posts today. You bring your heart always. ; )

drive by,

Obama "dithered" for almost a year while deaths for the year doubled the annual record lost under Bush.

And what was Obama's plan?

To double down, (to buy national security cred from independents), and to announce a "we quit" pullout date (to appease the liberal base).

We literally announced that we did not have the will to fight beyond a certain date.

The Taliban realized they had won, every village elder to every goat herder realized the Taliban had won, every one in the world realized the Taliban had won.

Most asinine military decision in history ....... that was purely political ...... Obama's calculation for Obama's re-election.

877 have died since that decision in December in 2009 ...... in vain.

Despicable.

Sorry that's an a@##$ hole thing to say.

Tragic that it is true.

Thanks to my fellow veterans around the world who've made sacrifices far greater than mine.

Those that came before, and will come after.

Semper Fortis. (Lt, USN, 2003-2009)

I am the flag of the United States of America
My name is Old
Glory.

I led my soldiers.
I followed them.
I watched over
them...
They loved me.

I was on a small hill in Iwo Jima.
I was dirty, battle-worn and
tired,
but my soldiers cheered me,
and I was proud.

I am proud.
My
name is Old Glory.
Dear God . . . Long may I wave!

BTW, regarding the First Read post...

Despite FR's begging, pleading and over the top teen-lust like yearning for Romney to take the lead -- they apparently want it so badly, they can taste it -- the idea that he has a "clear path" is ridiculous. Almost every poll has Cain maintaining his position and if FR could see past the unicorns they fantasize about, they would see that even if Cain did slip and fall, his votes would very likely go to Gingrich or the next conservative in line. Romney hasn't risen or gained any conservative voters because the conservative base sees him for what he is...a progressive Republican, much like the Republican's last 6 presidential candidates.

FR has absolutely no feel for the conservative political sentiment. It's a new day and a progressive Republican -- with their larger government and increased spending -- isn't going to cut it this time. Of course these are the same people who ignored and dismissed the influence of the Tea Party ideals for nearly 2 years, so the blinders they have permanently attached to their heads are par for the course.

Romney may make it to Super Tuesday because of his war chest. However, since candidates will drop out and the conservative vote will consolidate behind the one conservative candidate left standing, Romney won't last long after that...at least as a viable nominee.

President Bush's promise

But...but...but... we are not suppose to mention Bush anymore...

Remember?

When will you right wing nuts finally get your talking points straight?

Bob- that's a completely assh*le thing to say.

Thanks for saying what the majority was thinking Buzz! ;o)

PS: Tea-baggers make sure to send a check to Hermie today he needs all the help he can get!

Cain/Bachmann 2012

Time to face the facts, there is only one candidate who actually deserves the seat of the POTUS. And it isn't Romney. I mean, (I know it's ad hom of me to do so, but in this case, I see nothing wrong with doing so) The GUY BELIEVES IN MAGIC UNDERWEAR!!!! LMAO, so we really want a guy that believes in magic underwear as the POTUS??? Geez, no way...

Veterans like myself already know, there is only ONE choice that is right for this country. Ron Paul 2012!!!

Mike in SA:

Funny how Feisty ignores the fact that it was President Bush's promise as he was the one that negotiated the withdraw of troops, not Obama.

Not so fast. YOU ignore that Bush only negotiated for withdrawal because then-candidate Obama was talking about a 16-month withdrawal plan on the campaign trail. Both Bush and McCain had vehemently opposed any timetable for withdrawal. But the, Iraqi President Maliki came out and said he agreed with President Obama's idea. Bush wanted to co-opt the issue and make sure it couldn't be used as a campaign issue, so he went forward with re-negotiating the SOFA to include the timetable we have now.

I've posted this before, so I won't bother posting all the cites again. It's easily confirmed by using the google. Oh, all right. One or two.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/maliki-backs-obamas-troop-withdrawal-plan/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/19/us-iraq-maliki-obama-idUSL198009020080719

And interestingly, Condoleezza Rice recently said that even though Bush negotiated for withdrawal by the end of 2011, he never really meant it.

http://tacstrat.com/content/?p=5669

"There was an expectation that we would negotiate something that looked like a residual force for our training with the Iraqis," Rice said. "Everybody believed it would be better if there was some kind of residual force."

Rice said the Iraqi government, despite SOFA's Jan. 2012 end date, was not only open to a new agreement that would include an extension for U.S. troops, but expected that a new agreement would eventually be signed.

"We certainly understood that the Iraqis preserved that option and everybody believed that option was going to be exercised," Rice said.

So, by any measure, I guess we'd have to conclude that withdrawal according to the original timetable WAS in fact President Obama's idea, and NOT George W. Bush's.

You might benefit by studying up on these things a little bit before you get so snarky.

FR has absolutely no feel for the conservative political sentiment. It's a new day and a progressive Republican -- with their larger government and increased spending -- isn't going to cut it this time. Of course these are the same people who ignored and dismissed the influence of the Tea Party ideals for nearly 2 years, so the blinders they have permanently attached to their heads are par for the course.

p.s. Where were you on Tuesday?

Your Tea Party's 15 minutes of fame are already up. You just don't know it yet because you never really do any research.

"I know it's hard for you to believe but it was one of Pres. Obama's campaign promises. Agreed Bush initiated the pull out but the President is fulfilling one of his campaign promises." - CRinCali

So if one of Obama's campaign promises was that tomorrow the sky would be blue, you would praise Obama the next day for the sky being blue instead of praising the one who made it blue. I doubt you know how pathetic that sounds.

If that's all you've got left after 3 years, you all are really grasping at straws.

Mike -- And if it doesn't go the way some want I expect to see a third party challenge IMO. Your post reflects that.

Cannot help smiling when reading a couple conservative posters who suddenly remember and embrace that it was President Bush who signed the agreement to leave Iraq by Dec 2011. A couple weeks ago the right was on a rampage blaming President Obama for being so irresponsible as to leave Iraq. You just can't please the right.

I would like to also thank the libs this year, for not spitting on our fine veterans that are returning home from war.

Happy Veterans Day to all our retired/serving Members of our Armed Forces. Thank you so much for your services to keep us safe.

It is sad to see that posters such as NJBJ take the occasion to selfishly acknowledge only the service of her immediate family and spin it to proclaim an I HATE OBAMA DAY!

bob 180:

Last month was the 22nd month where deaths for the month in Afghanistan exceeded the worst month for deaths in the over 7 years under Bush ..... all for a cause that Obama will walk away from.

More than twice the deaths under Obama .... all for a political calculation - all for a cause that Obama will walk away from.

So, tell me, bobby -- what WAS Bush doing for those 7 years, anyway? Except making things worse by inattention, I mean.

You conveniently forget that the reason there were fewer deaths in Afghanistan during that period is that Bush diverted the soldiers to Iraq so they could die senselessly there, allowing the Taliban to re-emerge in Afghanistan.

What was THAT, if not rank political calculation?

Not to mention creating the conditions that President Obama has had to confront.

Once again, cleaning up Bush's mess.

Really, bobby. You ought to be ashamed to say these things, knowing that they are NOT true.

Happy Veteran's day!

Thanks to the usual suspects for politicizing even a holiday devoted to honoring our veterans, who are of all races, religions, and political beliefs...

Get off your soapbox and put down your megaphone for one day...this is no way to honor America or our Vets...

I'm inspired by nojo - by gum, I know a patriot when I read the wisdom of a right-wing blatherskite. So, I dragged out a poem I wrote back around the time of another war. Couldn't help but think about those patriots who are ready to go to war in a heartbeat......somebody else's heartbeat.

The Patriot

I'm sittin' on my couch

with a good cold can of brew,

watchin' my favorite TV show,

just like I always do.

Then they flash this news guy's face,

and he ain't got his usual smile.

He says we're fightin' Saddam Hussein,

but just for a little while.

Now I never heard of this guy Hussein,

and I never heard of Kuwait,

but Bush says he's bad, and he's fightin' mad,

and we got to liberate.

Iraq has did a real bad thing,

so this war has got to be fought.

I ain't a G.I., but I'm in support -

'Cause I'm a patriot.

Right away, I put up my flag.

How I love the red, white, and blue.

And I put decals on my car,

'cause I'm American through and true.

About this time, some wimp stands up

and says this war is wrong.

He's singin' the same ol' chicken tune

like when we was fightin' Viet Cong.

Unfortunately, I missed that war,

I was goin' to school at the time,

and I had to stay and help out Mom,

or you can bet I'd have got off the dime.

They're fightin' for you, you punk,

to protect the free speech you got.

"So, shut your stupid mouth," I say -

'Cause I'm a patriot.

Hardly anyone's got killed,

and surely nobody I know.

And I'm hearin' talk of victory,

and I'm gettin' a really warm glow.

We'll kick that jerk Hussein's ass.

He does things we wouldn't do.

He kills people in foreign countries,

he says things that ain't even true.

And talk about people who lie -

how 'bout the American press?

They act like they got a right to know,

and tell us about this mess.

But what those whiners want to know,

I'd really rather not.

I like to be kept in the dark -

'Cause I'm a patriot.

Everything's going to be all right.

Kuwait will soon be free -

another country like our own -

a true democracy.

The sheik will be back in power.

We'll be glad because he's there.

'Cause he does things the way we want,

and we know he's very fair.

True, he has about seventy wives,

and many are under age.

But that's the way they do things

on the Kuwaiti stage.

Best of all they got cheap oil -

that's perfect for the guzzler I got.

So it's easy to look the other way -

'Cause I'm a patriot.

"Tragic that it is true."

Is it tragic that Karzi has said he would side with Pakistan-stan-stan if it came down to it?

How may of our troops should die in the face of that news? What would be an acceptable number, then Bob?

IF we made NO announcement of a withdrawl date, but withdrew SOMETIME in the future, do you think the Taliban might reappear at that time? You know- just bide their time until we DID decide to leave, even unannounced? Sounds like you think we should stay forever now.

You are a real Einstein some days, Bob.

For all who will be on eternal patrol, we honor your sacrifice; it allowed us who came back to remember your sacrifice; stand your post and the enemy shall not pass; a nation of the people, by the people and for the people will only last so long as their citizen soldiers are prepared to defend against all enemy's both foreign and domestic!

By the way, 'Einstein-lotsa numbers'- How you wanna pay-to-stay?? Increase taxes on the poor? That sounds pretty good to you, I bet.

dangerfield:

Get off your soapbox and put down your megaphone for one day...this is no way to honor America or our Vets...

Respectfully disagree. The best way to honor our veterans is to exercise the rights they fought and died defending -- not the least of which is freedom of speech -- while being ever mindful of their sacrifices.

Jack in Portsmouth

I would like to suggest a more meaningful way of thanking veterans. Make an annual pilgrimage to a veterans’ hospital or home where broken people lie forgotten by society.

To those of you who already do these things, veterans owe you a thank you.

No Jack they do not, Those of us who do this do it because we know thank you will never be enough, so if by sitting by their bed side holding a hand, or listening to a story, consoling a loved one whos hero just died, it's all I have to offer, but offer it I will.

Except on Veteran's Day, on this day I go to the military cemetery to say thank you to those who can no longer hear me, today I call my brother's and say thank you, today I sit with my husband and hold HIS hand, later I will go to the local "soup kitchen" and feed a homeless vet. This is all I have to offer, but again offer it I will.

I know thank you embarrasses you (it embarrasses my husband too "just doing my job" is his answer) but know that I am grateful for your sacrifices and the sacrifice of your family.

"If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a soldier"

no joe, no bo, nj

Stop disgracing your ancestors that served in defense of this country. You're a joke! Get off of this blog and go play with yourself.

dangerfield

Happy Veteran's day!

I never understood this expression.

An issue I'd like to comment on from yesterday's news as well as some links. The issue is Gringrich and his role in advising on Freddie and Fannie. An article from fackcheck.org and one from an AP article.

http://factcheck.org/2011/11/cnbc-debate-slim-pickings-for-factcheckers/ Scroll to bottom.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/mortgage-meltdown-freddie-mac-lobbying-held-federal-regulators-bay This one confirms something Anna was alluding to yesterday.

Anna Molly, and the other liberals with similar comments--thanks for posting the details about the Iraq date; it was candidate Obama who promised the 16 month date and it was the Iraqi Prime Minister who embraced it; Bush and team were forced to accept what Iraq wanted. McCain, on the other hand, still shouts at clouds about us leaving.

Thank you all for (mostly) keeping the first comment thread about the veterans and not about politics.

Thank you to the veterans who are still serving. Your commitment to doing what needs to be done makes it possible for everyone else, everywhere in the free world to be free.

Thank you to the veterans who have served, returned home healthy, and are now part of civilian life.

Thank you to the veterans who have left a part of themselves somewhere else in the world.

Thank you to the families of the veterans who have not returned home.

God Bless you one and all.

dirp101, this was great....I could not have said it better.

Thank you to the veterans in my family....maternal grandfather, 2 uncles, 1 aunt, and 6 cousins who have served or are currently serving.

Hey booby lots of #'s,

Wasn't it only yesterday you were braying about racsim on First Read?

Well here's one from your side this morning;

doggie-3400502

i am suprised at you liberals not liking cain i though you were ni%%er lovers.

#73 - Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:18 AM CST

You must be so proud!

Anna Molly, So now you're crediting Obama for Maliki's own position??? I know this will shatter your carefully constructed world, but Maliki's position -- the position that Bush was negotiating to -- was Maliki's position way before Obama interjected. I'll also add a thank you for showing that Obama actually broke his promise. He said he would have troops home in 16 months. That 16 months was up almost 2 years ago.

Your worship of Obama also necessitates that you conveniently ignore the well known fact that Obama was working to extend our troops' stay in Iraq and the only reason we are now withdrawing troops is that the Iraqi government wouldn't agree to immunity from prosecution for those troops. Had the Iraqi government not taken that immunity away, our troops under Obama would have had their stay extended. That's well known, yet somehow I'm not shocked that you didn't mention it.

Feisty -- After reading that thread I definitely felt you were misunderstood. Kudos to you for standing strong.

Personally I have seen you fight those who bring racist posts to First Read and anyone reading here on a daily basis can attest to that.

BTW Anna Molly as per the post above, I'll use your words:

"You might benefit by studying up on these things a little bit before you get so snarky."

Kudos to you for standing strong.

Thanks DCIA!

I don't care if the right wing nuts call me every name in the 'book', but, they damned well better NOT call me a racist or a bigot!

Ahhh they hypocrisy is amok hehe. Fiesty wont even open up her past posts on her profile for those to go back and quote. She isnt beyond a sexually harassing comment either.

"But...but...but... we are not suppose to mention Bush anymore..." -- Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Silly me for not remembering that -- to a liberal -- I would actually have to spell out the difference in between mentioning a person's name and finger pointing.

The best thing Obama can do is make sure all those veterans who are cumming back from Iraq have jobs, the higher number of unemployed veterans show that during the last three years, there was no effort from this administration to help them to integrate veterans to the civilian life, we spend more money in Libya Egypt when our veterans need our help, and now Democrats and liberals want to cut the budget of the DOD , it will cut resources to programs that provide help to our veterans. However we have a wide open border at the south , where our veterans can serve and stop drug smugglers and illegal immigrants coming to our country. Thanks to all veterans and members of our armed forces.

Anna Molly'

So, tell me, bobby -- what WAS Bush doing for those 7 years, anyway? Except making things worse by inattention, I mean.

Why don't you at least Wiki the Afghan War and get a rudimentary understanding.

You conveniently forget that the reason there were fewer deaths in Afghanistan during that period is that Bush diverted the soldiers to Iraq so they could die senselessly there, allowing the Taliban to re-emerge in Afghanistan

Why don't you look up the troop deployments for Afghanistan - they grew every year - their was no diversion.

Have you never heard of "Al Qaeda in Iraq"? Are you unaware that over 6,000 Al Qaeda were killed in Iraq -far more than ever killed in Afghanistan?

What was THAT, if not rank political calculation?

No it wasn't, Bush did what he felt was best for the US, for international diplomacy and confronting the growth of nuclear weapons.

Bush did make political calculations though. He respected the office and refused to defend his positions against the anti-war movement and ultimately lost the chance for a meaniningful step forward.

Not to mention creating the conditions that President Obama has had to confront.

Certainly debatable. But the bottom line is that Obama said the war in Afghanistan was the smart war, the war that had to be won .... and that he would win it.

Yet he went over a 100 days with only talking to his new commander once. He never tried - he had his personal domestic agenda to push. That was the real inattention.

He failed.

Mike in SA:

Anna Molly, So now you're crediting Obama for Maliki's own position??? I know this will shatter your carefully constructed world, but Maliki's position -- the position that Bush was negotiating to -- was Maliki's position way before Obama interjected. I'll also add a thank you for showing that Obama actually broke his promise. He said he would have troops home in 16 months. That 16 months was up almost 2 years ago.

Mike, I don't usually call people names, but what you are saying here is pure idiocy, meant strictly to save face since your ignorance of history has been so thoroughly exposed.

Of course, President Obama didn't "honor" his 16-month plan. Legally, he could not do so because Bush had negotiated a binding agreement with a withdrawal date of December, 2011.

And Maliki didn't come forward with any "position" of his own except to react to what Candidate Obama had been saying, so that blows up that piece of your little diatribe as well.

I notice that you completely ignore what Condoleezza Rice said -- which was that Bush never meant to actually withdraw. This certainly reinforces what I remember about it and all of the press at the time confirms. Bush did not want to withdraw, but only agreed to do so in order to co-opt the issue.

Your worship of Obama also necessitates that you conveniently ignore the well known fact that Obama was working to extend our troops' stay in Iraq and the only reason we are now withdrawing troops is that the Iraqi government wouldn't agree to immunity from prosecution for those troops.

In fact, I don't worship President Obama, as you would know if you were a regular here, but I DO do my homework, so I'll grant you that, except that the force Secretary Clinton was negotiating for was only about 5,000 troops. It's not quite so clear that McCain, who never wanted to withdraw in the first place, would have done the same.

BUT it's only relevant if you think that McCain -- or even Bush -- might have stayed on, even without immunity.

Do you?

p.s. Just to show you that I do my homework, another little-known fact is that, the day the troops leave, thousands of contractors come in. Those thousands of contractors, assigned to security for the embassy detail, will be technically attached TO the embassy, and therefore, they will have diplomatic immunity.

President Obama is not as dumb as you think he is, at least on national security issues.

"Cannot help smiling when reading a couple conservative posters who suddenly remember and embrace that it was President Bush who signed the agreement to leave Iraq by Dec 2011. A couple weeks ago the right was on a rampage blaming President Obama for being so irresponsible as to leave Iraq. You just can't please the right." - Jody, Iowa

Not saying it's the right thing or wrong thing. Just noting how completely disingenuous it is to praise Obama for it while ignoring the person who actually negotiated it.

I would like to also thank the libs this year, for not spitting on our fine veterans that are returning home from war.

I believe that spitter is Jim DeMint.

drive-by-observer

".... not this this pathetic, putrid excuse of a CiC they have now."

Bob- that's a completely assh*le thing to say.

Sorry, other posters- and I may get deleted or at least collapsed, but it had to be said, and it had to be accurate.

Why is that a complete ******* thing to say? Just curious. Is it his timing? Or is it his target? Why?

My opinion (and I am entitled to it) is that "it had to be said, and it had to be accurate."

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

Roy Wilson - still can't get over the President's adept handling of international affairs, huh? I'm glad I get a kick out of righties twisting themselves into knots trying to downplay his competence. Your discomfiture is a gift that keeps on giving.

bob:

But the bottom line is that Obama said the war in Afghanistan was the smart war, the war that had to be won .... and that he would win it.

Yet he went over a 100 days with only talking to his new commander once. He never tried - he had personal domestic agenda to push.

He failed.

I was going to let this rest, but since you won't ...

I didn't agree with that delay, either. I wanted Obama to make a decision about Afghanistan sooner, rather than later. I never blindly supported that, and what's more, I suspect you know it.

But there's one BIG thing you left out here. You accuse President Obama of dithering, but then, what was it that Bush did for those 7 years you mentioned earlier, if it wasn't also dithering?

Think about it, bob. If Bush hadn't dithered for 7 years in Afghanistan, then maybe President Obama would have had no mess to pick up. And maybe, if he hadn't diverted all those troops from Afghanistan to Iraq, thousands of Americans would not have died.

That blood -- all of it -- is squarely on George W. Bush's hands.

Have you never heard of "Al Qaeda in Iraq"? Are you unaware that over 6,000 Al Qaeda were killed in Iraq -far more than ever killed in Afghanistan?

Where do you think they came from? Everyone knows they weren't there BEFORE we invaded Iraq.

Why don't you look up the troop deployments for Afghanistan - they grew every year - their was no real diversion.

Yes, there was, in the sense that instead of sending those 150,000 troops to Afghanistan to finish the job, we sent them to Iraq, where Al Qaeda never was until we got there.

I remember well that in the Spring of 2008 Bush sent both Condoleezza Rice and Robert Gates to Europe to beg NATO countries to send more troops to Afghanistan because the generals were complaining how woefully short of troops we were, and because of Iraq, they ALL refused to help us.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/world/europe/06iht-nato.4.10783095.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18195340

Over the past year, as security conditions in Afghanistan worsened, Pentagon officials began to grumble about NATO's commitment to the mission. There was -and is - a shortage of foreign troops there, so the Pentagon hoped NATO countries would fill that shortage. But internal political opposition in places, like Germany, Canada, even Britain, meant that NATO wouldn't be able to do that, so earlier this week, the Pentagon announced the U.S. would meet that shortfall and deploy another 3,200 Marines to the country.

Honestly, bob, how you do twist things.

He respected the office and refused to defend his positions against the anti-war movement and ultimately lost the chance for a meaniningful step forward.

Yeah, you really have to admire a guy for mindlessly defending a phony, trumped up, meaningless war against the rag-tag malcontented anti-war movement that didn't like to see us waste American lives and billions upon billions of dollars for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

If he "lost the chance to make a meaningful step forward," it was the day he decided to invade Iraq.

No it wasn't, Bush did what he felt was best for the US, for international diplomacy and confronting the growth of nuclear weapons

I hate to say this so crudely, but this is nothing but rank manure, fed to you mushroom style by your corporatist, military industrialist paymasters.

Bush never did anything that wasn't politically motivated, including ignoring the intelligence that told him clearly that there was no danger of Iraq getting nuclear weapons.

Feisty in Roselle possibly you should change that to Ditzie... Gee from Chicago and you worship the halfwit in office today go figure. You people in Chicago loved Daley and Blago and Bobby Rush as well as Carol Mosley Braun need we say more. The ignorance in Chicago-land has ruined the state of Illinois don't count on getting your way in 2012 the rest of the nation is so stupid as to be bit twice by the same snake. A normal person would be embarrassed of the voting record Chicago has shown but not you folks you appear proud of your stupidity.

drive-by,

"Tragic that it is true."

Is it tragic that Karzi has said he would side with Pakistan-stan-stan if it came down to it?

Absolutely! Thanks for making my point.

Isn't it appalling that the country we are fighting for turns against us and would side with a former friend against us!

How more badly could this have have been handled.

What is there to gain for the lives Obama is wasting ?

What is Obama doing drive-by?

How may of our troops should die in the face of that news? What would be an acceptable number, then Bob?

None drive-by!

You don't get it. You don't understand my point.

When Obama doubled down while announcing a pull out/we quit date it was tantamount to a poker player doubling the bet on the flop and announcing he is folding on the turn! It's asinine.

Karzai and Pakistan knew the Taliban had lost when Obama announced the pull out date. They are making the best deals they can now.

Game Over.

We have an incompetent Commander in Chief that is wasting lives on a CAUSE HE IS GOING TO WALK AWAY FROM.

IF we made NO announcement of a withdrawl date, but withdrew SOMETIME in the future, do you think the Taliban might reappear at that time?

That is exactly what the Taliban did!

When the anti-war movement started, when the media started the daily death updates ... the libs mocking "mission accomplished", etc. .... when the will of the people turned - Iran was reinvigorated - the Taliban was and Afghanistan was not ready.

Obama came in and sealed the deal with his inattention, with his lack of will - with his plan.

They won in December 2009.

Why has Obama wasted another 877 American lives?

You know- just bide their time until we DID decide to leave, even unannounced? Sounds like you think we should stay forever now.

Commander in Chief should only send them as a last resort and when he does he should them to win .... not die for a cause the Commander in Chief is going to walk away from.

They deserve better.

StopfundingIllegals - The Republicans are making the same mistake the Democrats made in 2004- failing to provide a sufficiently attractive alternative - and tHey will suffer the same fate as the 2004 Democrats. BTW I personally couldn't believe the American electorate would have been so foolish as to legitimately elect Bush in 2004 - after a 2002-2003 that paralleled Mussolini for sheer stupidity (Sorry, I couldn't think of a comparably bad American President - though Wilson comes close.)

Obama would of worked with your Mussolini comparison better.

Anna Molly,

if he hadn't diverted all those troops from Afghanistan to Iraq

Bush dithered..... diverted troops?

Troop deployment in Afghanistan:

FY2002 - 5,200

FY2003 - 10,400

FY2004 - 15,200

FY2005 - 19,100

FY2006 - 20,400

FY2007 - 23,700

FY2008 - 30,100

[Source: Congressional Research Service from Joint Staff]

Where were the 1000s of troops diverted Anna? (Doubled in Afghanistan the year we went into Iraq and increased a total of 6 fold over the Bush years.)

then maybe President Obama would have had no mess to pick up

then maybe if President Clinton had not treated terrorism as a civil matter for 8 years .... Bush wouldn't have had to deal with 9/11 ...... grow up Anna.

Tell you what Anna, you're tired and I'm bored, how about we continue the rest of your comments on Monday.

Have a good weekend Anna.

"Not so fast. YOU ignore that Bush only negotiated for withdrawal because then-candidate Obama was talking about a 16-month withdrawal plan on the campaign trail. Both Bush and McCain had vehemently opposed any timetable for withdrawal. But the, Iraqi President Maliki came out and said he agreed with President Obama's idea. Bush wanted to co-opt the issue and make sure it couldn't be used as a campaign issue, so he went forward with re-negotiating the SOFA to include the timetable we have now." - Anna Molly

-------------------------------------------

"I don't usually call people names, but what you are saying here is pure idiocy, meant strictly to save face since your ignorance of history has been so thoroughly exposed." - Anna Molly

You want ignorance of history exposed? OK! Let's have the ignorance exposed! Your statement strongly suggests that the Bush administration negotiated the SOFA agreement to counteract Obama politically. Here's a shocker! Hold onto your chair! The SOFA negotiations were not prompted by Obama's influence as you fantasy world would have you believe. SOFA negotiations were already underway by January of 2008. You know, when Hillary was the assumed standard barer for the Dems.

Also the last I remember, Bush didn't have a campaign to run. He was exiting office. Seems to me that A) it wouldn't matter to him or B) he would negotiate to what the Republican candidate requested. As you note, McCain was staunchly for an open-ended stay. Obama had no influence. Maliki did. Your fantasy world crumbles.

And this following statement of yours is equally ridiculous especially when taken in the context of your statement that an earlier exit was "Obama's idea":

"And Maliki didn't come forward with any 'position' of his own except to react to what Candidate Obama had been saying, so that blows up that piece of your little diatribe as well."

What??? That's just ludicrous! As noted negotiations started and Maliki already had a well established, publicly stated position even when Obama was behind in the polls...not just for the presidency...but behind in the polls for the Democratic nomination! Maliki's position was long established by the time Obama became the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party. And the statement that a shorter time frame was "Obama's idea" just goes to show how far outside reality you will go to credit "The Great One" for things and thoughts that other people already had in place.

Let's go on with some of the rest of your comment shall we?

"Of course, President Obama didn't "honor" his 16-month plan. Legally, he could not do so because Bush had negotiated a binding agreement with a withdrawal date of December, 2011."

So, Maliki liked Obama's 16 month plan. He supported it whole heartedly That being the case, it seems Obama should have been able to renegotiate the SOFA very quickly and very easily, bringing our troops out in the 16 months he promised. You know...because they were both already in agreement. Yet that renegotiation didn't happen. Why is that, do you suppose? I mean he had promised! Again, your position is blatantly false.

"I notice that you completely ignore what Condoleezza Rice said -- which was that Bush never meant to actually withdraw."

Interesting that you charge that I'M the one ignoring your quote of Rice when it's YOU who are ignoring her words. Let's take a look at the first sentence you quote and compare it with what the Obama administration was negotiating:

"'There was an expectation that we would negotiate something that looked like a residual force for our training with the Iraqis," Rice said. "Everybody believed it would be better if there was some kind of residual force.'"

Why -- again, shocker -- that's exactly what was being negotiated by the Obama administration! What the Obama administration was working towards was a residual force for training with the Iraqis! It's right there in front of you should you care to look:

"The Obama administration, concerned over continued violence and growing Iranian influence, for much of this year pushed to keep thousands of U.S. troops here in a significant-sized training mission. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and other Iraqi officials expressed support of the idea, and they negotiated for months." - Huffington Post

So, let me know when you're done with your Obama worship so I'll know when we can have a rational conversation. As for doing homework, perhaps you should look at more than one "textbook". There's a difference in between regurgitating what somebody told you and actual critical thinking.

Being a Veteran myself I appreciate all the thanks and I appreciate all the other Veterans that are here today, were lost in wars and have passed away. When I first started reading this post I noticed all the goodwill and no one was bringing politics into this. I thought for once a thread would be positive with no name calling or character assassinations.

Wasn't I a fool, it didn't take long before people were going after each other and making it another vile thread.

When I was in the military I didn't fight for any political party I fought for the United States of America. It would be nice one day to see people debate with respect towards each other. I guess I am just a dreamer.

@ Michael1969 --

What??? That's just ludicrous! As noted negotiations started and Maliki already had a well established, publicly stated position even when Obama was behind in the polls...not just for the presidency...but behind in the polls for the Democratic nomination! Maliki's position was long established by the time Obama became the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party.

My, how you DO mischaracterize the facts.

This is from the Reuters article I cited above.

In an interview with Der Spiegel released on Saturday, Maliki said he wanted U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq as soon as possible.

"U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes."

It is the first time he has backed the withdrawal timetable put forward by Obama, who is visiting Afghanistan and us set to go to Iraq as part of a tour of Europe and the Middle East.

Obama has called for a shift away from a "single-minded" focus on Iraq and wants to pull out troops within 16 months, instead adding U.S. soldiers to Afghanistan.

Asked if he supported Obama's ideas more than those of John McCain, Republican presidential hopeful, Maliki said he did not want to recommend who people should vote for.

"Whoever is thinking about the shorter term is closer to reality. Artificially extending the stay of U.S. troops would cause problems."

Maliki, who is due to visit Germany this week, has suggested a timetable should be set for a U.S. withdrawal but U.S. officials have been more cautious, despite an improving security situation.

The White House said on Friday President George W. Bush and Maliki had agreed that a security deal under negotiation should set a "time horizon" for meeting "aspirational goals" for reducing U.S. forces in Iraq.

"The Americans have found it difficult to agree on a concrete timetable for the exit because it seems like an admission of defeat to them. But it isn't," Maliki told Der Spiegel.

(emphasis added)

Time horizons? Aspirational goals? Reducing forces?

Talk about vague.

If Maliki didn't take Bush seriously, it's perhaps because he wasn't, as Condoleezza Rice clearly seems to be saying.

Also the last I remember, Bush didn't have a campaign to run. He was exiting office. Seems to me that A) it wouldn't matter to him or B) he would negotiate to what the Republican candidate requested.

And that's exactly the way it was going, too, as the article above suggests, until Maliki came forward and said he liked Obama's idea better.

As for why Bush would care, do you really suppose he wanted President Obama to win? How about Dick Cheney? Do you suppose they wanted McCain out there running against both Obama AND Maliki?

How stupid would that have been?

Why -- again, shocker -- that's exactly what was being negotiated by the Obama administration! What the Obama administration was working towards was a residual force for training with the Iraqis!

Give Ms. Rice some props for post hoc rationalization, k?

By the way, does the article say how large a force, O All Omniscient One?

Since Bush never wanted to leave in the first place, why should we assume he was thinking of the same kind of residual force that President Obama was thinking of?

Absolutely NO evidence for that.

so I'll know when we can have a rational conversation.

Doubtful.

There's a difference in between regurgitating what somebody told you and actual critical thinking.

Don't I know it. I do critical thinking every day for a living. You?

In the spirit of Veteran's Day, I want to give my heartfelt thanks for your service to this country to those who have served. I do not care if you are a Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative.

My father was a WWII veteran, and in his honour (and my curiosity), I did make an effort to retrace his travels in Europe during WWII, starting from Berlin, Germany and ending up in Krakow, Poland at the death camps of Auschwitz and Birkenau, where my father was one of the liberation troops.

My father NEVER talked about his service during the war, and I NOW understand why.

My father's gift to me - and my generation - was that I was able to retrace his steps by being able to visit these places where he had been without a rifle or sidearm and without any threat of violence.

All of the veterans that served with my father bequeathed to their children the same as my father - a world where you can visit places in peace.

That is a gift that we CANNOT repay, and I do believe that our veterans loved us SO MUCH that not only did they give their lives in the defence of this country, they gave their LOVE to us by making sure that we are at PEACE.

We need to be SURE that we reciprocate OUR love for the people who have sacrificed so much.

I have never served in the military, and there is NO WAY I can EVER repay our veterans for their service other than make sure that we are NEVER put in the position of having to fight wars. I hope that the rest of the American electorate understand this as well.

Independent Redneck Va.

The 11^th hour of the 11^th Day of the 11^th Month.

IR - Happy birthday devildog. Thanks for your service.

"I've been saying for months that Mitt is the guy and that is the best news an Obama supporter can have today. Go Mitt, go"

Skip Nichelson 1.15

Has an Obama worshiper you should go to another sources to read news , beside MSNBC or Huffinton Post. According to Rassmusen polls Mitt and Obama are neck and neck 43 % not a good news , however Obama is campaigning for the last four years with the help of the probama media that sugarcoat anything that is negative for this administration. Mitt is focus in the nomination at this time, if get the nomination he will focus to the presidential campaign it will be a different history. While Democrat where calling for victory in Iowa ,The Virginian election was a good test for a swing state, after decades of Democrat control senate Republicans got it. Now Virginia fully controled by Republicans

The previous Virginian Governor Tim Kaine now Candidate for Senate was a total disaster like a typical Democrat. The new Republican Governor turn things around . While Maryland the neighbor blue State is in red, rising taxes and all kind of fees to continue spending money , while business move to a more attractive Virginia with lower taxes and more business friendly, people are not stupid and see the difference among a Republican and Democrat State , both states are very similar close to the Capital where the income is high and unemployment is low.

@ oskar --

If Virginia is so differerent from Maryland, and the new governor is so much more successful than the old governor with taxes and jobs and such, then tell me why Virginia's unemployment rate has risen for each of the past three months, while Maryland's unemployment rate went down last month, and Maryland has added private sector jobs for the past three or four months consecutively?

http://www.vec.virginia.gov/pdf/newpres1.pdf

http://www.bls.gov/ro3/mdlaus.htm

http://www.dllr.md.gov/whatsnews/mlr.shtml

"My, how you DO mischaracterize (sic) the facts." - Anna Molly

Here are the facts. Your own source states that Maliki wanted "U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq as soon as possible." That is the very first sentence of your quote and this is what Maliki wanted all along! I know this is difficult for you, but in the real physical realm, the fact that Maliki supported the shorter time table proposed by one person over a longer time table proposed by another does not make a shorter time table the first person's "idea", it just means it was closer to what Maliki wanted all along. Maliki clearly stated that he wanted the shortest time table possible. Obama's "time table" was shorter...well...originally.

As noted in my previous post -- an item I see you steered clear of addressing -- once Obama got into office and easily could have re-negotiated the SOFA to actually bring troops home in 16 months, he turned his back on that campaign promise and kept them there. He absolutely had the ability to re-negotiate and bring them back. It wasn't a treaty, so he didn't even need congressional approval. He had the unilateral ability to do so. Again I'll ask...why didn't he do that and keep his campaign promise? Why did he renege when he had the ability to follow through?

And as far as "vagueness" goes and not having specifics written in stone, that's part of negotiating. "I'll be flexible with 'A' if you are flexible with 'B'". It was easy for Obama to say firmly "16 months". He had no part of the negotiation and therefore no need to maintain flexibility

"If Maliki didn't take Bush seriously, it's perhaps because he wasn't, as Condoleezza Rice clearly seems to be saying."

I think what's clear is that she is stating what ended up being true, even for the Obama administration. An attempt would be made to extend our stay. It would have been true with the Bush administration and it was true with the Obama administration.

"As for why Bush would care, do you really suppose he wanted President Obama to win? How about Dick Cheney? Do you suppose they wanted McCain out there running against both Obama AND Maliki?

How stupid would that have been?"

As I stated, if that was a primary driver, Bush would have negotiated to McCain's position. As it was, McCain ended up running against Obama, Maliki, AND BUSH. That's not very helpful now is it? Also, you should note that -- were this a politically driven agreement -- the Bush administration could have withdrawn the agreement any time between election day and two weeks later when it was finally signed by both parties involved.

The fact is that the driver for the timing was not "The Great One" but rather the fact that the last extension of the UN mandate was expiring.

"Give Ms. Rice some props for post hoc rationalization, k?

By the way, does the article say how large a force, O All Omniscient One?

Since Bush never wanted to leave in the first place, why should we assume he was thinking of the same kind of residual force that President Obama was thinking of?

Absolutely NO evidence for that."

So I see you're back to constructing whatever fantasy world fits the unicorn you believe in. One in which "facts" are "facts" just because you say it's so. One would have to believe Condoleeza Rice was a liar for there to be "Absolutely NO evidence for that", and we know her statements to be true concerning this. They are certainly more true than Obama's, who promised (on the campaign trail no less) to bring the troops home in 16 months, then for 2 years reneged on that promise when given the ability to fulfill it, then to top it off doubled down on his reneging by working to extend our stay there!

And you're right the article doesn't say how many, but the root word for "residual" is "residue" or small leftover part. Could have been 8,000, could have been 1,000. We'll never know. Of course we wouldn't know with Obama either, based on his own voracity and poor history of kept promises concerning troop levels in Iraq.

"I do critical thinking every day for a living."

I feel sorry for your employers. You should probably give them a refund.

"I know it's hard for you to believe but it was one of Pres. Obama's campaign promises. Agreed Bush initiated the pull out but the President is fulfilling one of his campaign promises." -

Too funny. Bush negotiated the troop withdrawal, subject to a new 'Status of Forces' agreement if a troop extension is needed. Obama tries and fails to negotiate a new agreement to keep our forces there longer.

And you find a way to 'praise Obama' for his actions?

Like I said - "Too Funny".

NOTHING IS CLEAR

Absolutely nothing about Mitt Romney's path is clear. He is not trusted. Down South, they are far from sold. He was "for it" before he was "against it". Corporations are PEOPLE ???

Nothing is settled, nothing is clear, none of the favorites had lasting power, now, the sub-tier candidates are getting 2nd and 3rd looks.

Republican Nominee Santorum, it could be, he is no fool, and his message has been consistent.

Republican Nominee Gingrich, he speaks well, not every candidate can say this, and he understands history very well, and could be commander in chief

Republican Nominee Huntsman, the dark horse comes through, smart, Ambassador to China, no one hates him (and this is a big plus right now)

Republican Nominee Ron Paul, never thought I would utter these words, but his enthusiastic little band is over 10%, he might be just the man to take on the Fed and Reform Wall Street -- guess what Ron, all those "occupy people", they might be your supporters.

WHAT A WILD CAMPAIGN, WOW ! ! !

@Greg -What I find strange is that even now, at this late date....all the polls still show undecided or undeclared, at around 15 to 19%. With all the choices, all their views, experiences, background and false promises....why are there still so many repub's not choosing a horse to ride, even for a little while. Obviously they can change their minds before the election. They're just not seeing what they want, or trust, or something.

Thank you Jody, for your wonderful wrap of the week.

Jody- do you think there would be any chance you could get one of these 'wraps' into the Register as a Guest Editoral" They should be required reading for anyone that has any interest in what is going on in their country at all.

Another great post to end the week. Nothing changes much. Perry is still a fraud and liar and has continued to expose this to the American People. Rummy is not sure what day it is. The Pizza guy has taking his lead from the Justice Thomas. And oh where is sister Bachmann??

The impotent super committee is still Impotent.

No jobs bill from the right, just more "Obstructionism" as usual.

The current Congress has set the record for impotence. They continue to do nothing while the Citizens of Ohio over turn the DRACONIAN Laws of their brown shirt Governor in over turning the "Collective Bargaining" Law.

Same old same old.

President Obama in 2012 - Very little doubt now.

Jody, Iowa

"And that's the way it is...." this week.

Jody, no one gives a better comprehensive wrap than you. I still think FR should put you on staff.

Happy Veterans DAY

Friday's wouldn't be the same at First Read with out Jody's astute analysis!

They just keep getting better... thanks! ;o)

The Pizza guy has taking his lead from the Justice Thomas.

Navy,

Speaking of the Thomas/Cain connection... did you happen to catch this?

Despite several allegations of sexual harassment, Herman Cain continues to treat the issue like it's a big joke.

According to The Caucus blog, the Republican presidential hopeful was caught on tape Thursday making a wisecrack about Anita Hill, the law professor who lodged sexual harassment accusations against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas 20 years ago.

Cain was making a campaign stop in Kalamazoo, Mich., on Thursday when a person in the crowd mentioned Hill. He laughed and said: "Is she going to endorse me?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/11/herman-cain-anita-hill_n_1087767.html

Remember to send Hermie a check today tea baggers - he needs your support!

Thanks again Jody, Iowa for another great weekly wrap up.

Thank you to all our Veterans today for their service to our great country.

Jody---thanks for bravely posting another excellent wrap up of the week despite your Chargers' sad performance last night. Sympathies to you and your team.

It is hard to pick a favorite story out of this week's follies but I think I'm going with Joe Walsh since he had a double this week----bar rant caught on tape AND the award for family values while still owing over $117,000 in back child support.

Happy Veterans Day to you---special thoughts & hugs sent your way.

Thank you Jody for another wonderful wrap up. I've been lurking for over a year, but I never fail to get the weeks news from your wrap up.

Touche!

I agree with DBO, required reading indeed!!

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Happy Veterans Day this special 11-11-11. The GOP candidates are all hopeless LIARS and so are the leaders.

Michelle Bachman is probably running around trying to get campaign contributions.

Think progress has put together a nice piece about The Obama administration's foreign policy success

GOP’s response: Republicans parroted Qaddafi’s propaganda claiming that Al Qaeda was behind the rebel uprising. With Qaddafi’s death, Republicans again refused to credit Obama, mocked the White House for “leading from behind” and criticized the administration’s strategy for failing to use more U.S. air-power or putting American “boots on the ground.”

http://thinkprogress.org/report/obama-foreign-policy-successes/

I haven't flipped over to FOX NOISE or any RWNJ websites but you bet they'll be criticizing the President. I bet that Lizzard (my nikename for Liz) Cheney will be hopelessly try to prove otherwise.

BTW: This is a very special day for the 1st black Marines may soon get Congressional Gold Medal

http://www.freep.com/article/20111106/NEWS06/111060468/1st-black-Marines-may-soon-get-Congressional-Gold-Medal?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPA

============================================================================

"Semper Fi."

Jody -- Great recap! On the issue of the pipeline it is important that people understand it is a republican governor in Nebraska who also felt it necessary to reroute the pipeline away from an important water source in their state. One just has to google the issue pipeline + Nebraska and you can read the news directly from the sources. Below is a link to one article FYI.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/25/us-usa-pipeline-nebraska-idUSTRE79N6HI20111025

Jody, Iowa:

This has become a must-read for me. Truly, your wrap is as good as it gets.

Steeler Fan:

I saw that clip of the morally corrupt Mr. Walsh. The people at Uno's should have tossed his sorry butt out of the building. The nerve of the jerk to say he was going to ask a patron of the restaurant to leave?? The restaurant owner should have asked Walsh to leave.

Once again we see the real attitude of those on the right. They are nothing more than impotent bullies now. They have lost their collective way and are floundering in their own crap.

Walter Cronkite trained you well! What a great post - and the best part it is all fact! (something which GNOPers can't seem to handle)!

Jody--once again--wonderful wrap-up of the week! Agree with DBO--should be shared on a broader level!

Mr. Rogers.

Chuck Todd is a DISGRACE to journalism.

It's VETERANS day... how about highlighting the SRVICE of the CANDIDATES... WAIT... there you would have to mention... Ron PAUL and we all know your bosses might FIRE you if you actually SAID his NAME in a positive light.

Mr. Rogers,

Sorry things aren't going so well in your neighborhood, but Ron Paul is a nut and does not like America.

Did you notice how creepy and hunched over he looked when he held out those 5 decrepit fingers of his trying to help Gov Perry enumerate what government agencies to get rid of?

See for yourself @ about 11 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zUA2rDVrmNg

Don't_carry_it_all:

Nebraska (The Sand Hills) is a major - if not THE major - recharge source for the Ogallala Aquifer or what is called the High Plains Aquifer today. It is enormous and provides groundwater for Kansas, Oklahoma and beyond. That aquifer took thousands upon thousands of years to create, and it will be depleted in only a few short years. That depletion has been accelerated in recent years, thanks to the idiotic government subsidies for ethanol from corn.

We very recently learned that fracking in Wyoming has now been definitively linked to groundwater pollution. As many may know, fracking is exempted from Section 404 thanks to the machinations of Darth Cheney and the Halliburton crew. Trade secrets are far more important than the health of our children. I mean, wasn't Love Canal just a picnic?

Yeah, those regulations are just nothing but bad. Suicide by Republican! Not just a vote, a death sentence.

Thank you, thank you. I blush at such high praise. Thanks also to those who added more. Don't Carry, I had not heard about the Nebraska republican also wanting the delay.

I was reading and posting under IR's excellent remembrance for Veterans Day. I added a story from the local paper, front page, comment #1.30 regarding a local MIA hero. I'll add what heartfelt stories and comments in Thread 1, by all--except one who turns sunshine into rain by simply appearing, and that would be you know who.

David -- Thanks for adding the details. ; ) Recently I had the opportunity to talk with someone about the issues facing Nebraskan's and many others concerning the pipeline when I stopped in a small town in Nebraska. Their concerns should not be taken lightly as indeed you point out.

As to the fracking mess let me add this article to give perspective:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/business/energy-environment/in-north-dakota-wasted-natural-gas-flickers-against-the-sky.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&hpw

Keep on keeping on friend! : )

DBO, it might be fun to see if the Des Moines Register needs a guest editorial. Trouble is the politics of today seems more appropriate for the Comics page. BTW, I so enjoyed your list of muscial requests in thread #1!!! LOL.

CRinCA, you're welcome and thanks for posting today, not just reading. It is always good to hear from someone who usually doesn't comment.

David Walker, definitely thanks to adding more detail to Don't Carry's addition. Appreciate the effort.

Jody -- Sunshine washes rain away.....keep posting friend.

Jody, Iowa---this was wonderful to read. Thanks for posting, and I'll be on the lookout every Friday from now on.

Jody - As always, thanks for your weekly wrap-up posts. I have turned several friends onto it. It is a gem!!

Watch out Romney, Newt is on the rise!

Hugs and thanks to you today Navy!

That was a disgusting video of Walsh ranting. Today's WaPo has a clip of Cain making a joke about Anita Hill.....disgusting as well a very poor reflection of character.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/cain-jokes-about-anita-hill/2011/11/11/gIQA7qHoAN_blog.html

Jody, My week is not complete, and my weekend cannot begin, until I read your wrapup. Thanks very much!

If your wrapping up the week, shouldnt you include Obama's decision to delay to pipeline losing 20,000 jobs in the process. No wonder he needs a jobs bill. He never did like shovel ready did he. Dont use the Nebraska cover story as a real excuse as there are already 25000 miles of pipeline under that Acquifer with no problems. You do realize that this is just exporting more jobs to china as Canada will take the oil and ship it somewhere and if not the US creating jobs for our refineries then China or elsewhere. Just absolute eco lunacy. And you guys think the pro gun lobby are nutjobs. At least they want a vibrant job creating economy.

Kirk -- Read about eminent domain issues in Nebraska as well as the concerns of the citizens and politicians of that very red state. Additionally read through the thread on an article by FR on this issue. I don't want to post and repeat. Google Nebraska + pipeline. Easy for you to talk about when it's not your property or State or water.

DCIA--I have read some material including the WSJ articles over the past month. I am not sure I would use FR as an objective unbiased source but I know there are some objections similar to not in my backyard in Nebraska. However, given the amount of pipeline they already have, that smells of cover for the administration to delay while appeasing the more left wing fringe environmentalists in their base. Listen I live in Illinois near Chicago and my state, property already has many environmental sensitive projects running through various aspects of it and I fully understand the not in my backyard mentality. But stuff like this is absolutely giving in to the left wing nuts. This oil will be taken and refined. At some point if you listen to the eco crazys, we will eventually eliminate all manufacturing from this country but think of me as crazy but I would think we would want to keep those jobs here. The unintended consequences of all of this administration's financial policies continue to amaze me in terms of his financial acumen.

Kirk -- The lady I spoke with was not a "eco crazy"....she was a conservative who in fact was never an activist of any sort. I read WSJ everyday Kirk. You posted without reading much on this issue. The republican governor is also fighting to have the pipeline rerouted. Some conservatives simply do not want the pipeline going through certain areas in their State. These are the facts not my take on anything.

It's interesting that Cain accuses his accusers of lying while at the same time blames the "Democrat machine" and offers absolutely no proof that any Democrat had anything to do with his problems. When you accuse others without any evidence it is just another way of lying.

...and as a quick side note, Happy "Nigel Tufnel" Day! Let's turn it up to ELEVEN!!!

GMJ:

I could not say it better. Our Veterans and current men and women serving this great Nation are the 1% we should be honoring and hold most dear in our hearts.

*salutes* (though probably not precise enough for a DI)

Thank you for your service, sir.

@Navy

Amen. As the wife of a Navy vet, just one thing to say - GO NAVY!

Phinephancy:

My Dad was a decorated gunners mate on the USS Alaska - a pocket Battle Ship that saw heavy duty in the Pacific. My daughter a RN graduated cum laude from the oldest private Military College in the United States is a Naval Officer currently stationed at Newport RI as the Naval Clinic Division Officer. My grandfather fought in WWI as a doughboy.

I thank your husband for his service and I thank you for the unfaltering love, support and devotion you gave him. It is that for which we served this country. Not medals. Just a simple need to do that which is right in the hope that we have made a difference.

And to you Navy, thanks for you and your family's service. Glad to see you posting again. You keep this board thought provoking and interesting.

Well said, Grand Moff J.

Grimey----those are some special kids you are raising! Hugs to you & your dad.

P.S. Forgot to say congrats on having your Boiler Room question picked.

They both start out their letters to him quite simply with "Dear Hero".

Grimey - you are a FINE father!

You have many, many reason to be proud of your sons! ;o)

Frank:

Your post made my day. You and your family are special people indeed. Thank you.

Frank, children reflect what they are taught, obviously you have taught what is most imporant. What a wonderful thing for them to do. Made my day just reading it.

Clever Bob ! Can we get these veterans jobs?? i don't hear anything form Cain or Perry about the people who were used in Bush's wars!

rule of nine---I expect the Republicans would say it is the unemployed veterans' fault they don't have jobs.

Steeler Fan:

That is exactly what they are saying. I have heard stories of HR people asking a Vet if he every had a real job?

I guess defending this country is not good enough, or the fact they have management skills developed in leading people into battle or being in charge of a division of people, they have built schools, roads, airports, waste water treatment plants. They have worked as corpsmen, heavy machine operators, electricians, plumbers. maintenance, computer specialists, hospital personnel, office personnel, cooks, etc etc etc.

Just about every job in civilian life is duplicated in the Military Life. They only difference is that the Military people have had more extensive experience and training than many of the similar folks in the private sector. For sure they have had far more responsibility thrust upon them. These people are put in charge of millions of dollars of equipment, people, and you name it.

Hire a Vet, the best investment you will ever make.

Just about every job in civilian life is duplicated in the Military Life. They only difference is that the Military people have had more extensive experience and training than many of the similar folks in the private sector. For sure they have had far more responsibility thrust upon them. These people are put in charge of millions of dollars of equipment, people, and you name it.

Great Point Navy!

So why do unions start them as journeymen?

Pennsylvania has been giving preference to veterans with state employee positions. I don't know for how long the commonwealth has been doing that....but PA does do that.

1945...66 years...November 11...Amazing! And thank you posters for the kind words for us Vets...

The republicans are truly confusing. Apparently, for every sexual allegation made against a candidate, they can raise $2.25M, evidenced by Cain's 4 accusers and claims he raised $9M. That message is harass a female, make a $35k payoff, and raise $2.25M. Talk about a money maker.

Now as Rush says, I'm off to synchronize my menstrual cycle (if only I had one).

another poem writtem by a soilder in ww1

this one is by alan seegar an american who was serving in the french foreign legion in the trenches in 1916 and was published around a year after he died on july 4 1916

I have a rendezvous with Death
At some disputed barricade,
I have a rendezvous with Death
At some disputed barricade,
When Spring comes back with rustling shade
And apple-blossoms fill the air -
I have a rendezvous with Death
When Spring brings back blue days and fair.

It may be he shall take my hand
And lead me into his dark land
And close my eyes and quench my breath -
It may be I shall pass him still.
I have a rendezvous with Death
On some scarred slope of battered hill,
When Spring comes round again this year
And the first meadow-flowers appear.

God knows 'twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear...
But I've a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.

cm- thank you for posting two lovely poems in remembrance. When I see poppies, I think of Flanders Fields.

Alan: "the media and the RNC are coronating Romney" not because he is such a fantastic candidate, but because the alternatives are so bad. With the exception of Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul, all of the others have made such blunders that they are no longer viable (if they ever were.)

I don't know why Jon Huntsman is not higher in the polls. He is a moderate, like Romney, without Romney's flip-flop or Romney's healthcare albatross.

I know most people don't like Ron Paul because of his extremist libertarean views. He's really a libertarean, which is a conservative Republican, who hates the military and is not an Teavangelical christian extremist. Kind of guy who ropes you in by saying the right things on financial matters, just to tick you off on everything else.

On this, Veteran's day, it should be noted that the only two candidates who have served in the military are Ron Paul and Rick Perry.

Dirp, I think Jon Huntsman hasn't been higher in the polls (and also discussed in the media) is b/c of the circus surrounding Perry, Bachmann, and Cain. It's too bad....I think Huntsman has a lot to offer and could give Obama a good race for the Presidency in the 2012 election.

In case you didn't notice, Alan numbers, FR went on to put a ? beside the idea of a clear path for Romney. It pays to read the whole article.

My grandfather fought at the Battle of the Bulge as well.....2 uncles in Viet Nam, 1 cousin in Grenada & Desert Storm.

We're talking the primaries here...try and keep up with us.

Ronald Reagan was not a sure thing going into the 1980 primaries...not as sure as Romney appears to be at the moment.

I can see Obama now "that's the best they could do? This will be easy!"

Yep time to turn Newt loose on Obama! Let the debate begin:)

no one can stand in a debate with Newt and make him look dumb or silly

Nope...he does a pretty good job of that on his own.

this guy knows how the system works, he is sharp, he is Christain

...and he's reminding us during his campaign why the public at large doesn't like him.

and most importantly he is an American

Are you suggesting that none of the other candidates are American? Bachmann's gonna be pissed when she gets that news!

GOD bless you.

Speed Bump, seriously, last I checked everyone of the GOP candidates and President Obama are ALL Americans, but I do question the patriotism of someone who claims only some are.

Newt does lead the field in hypocrisy. When he was attacking Clinton he was having his own affair. Wouldn't you think someone that was REALLY intelligent would just shut up and go away rather than have his hypocritical attitude be public record? Thankfully his Contract On America didn't fare any better than he has.

Is that a speed bump? or just someone you rolled over to get to a bombastic point?

umm, if no one can make newt look silly in a debate,...just what did you think Maria did when she asked him to be specific about something the media got wrong?

Are you watching these debates? Or just Faux and Freaks rose colored, sanitized version? Good Luck with Newton,...I guess he represents your values well.

You might as well vote for Obama if you go 3rd party that would be so foolish. Obama's 40% plus is solid=government workers, union, welfare, trail lawyers, hollywood libs, criminals that can vote, and the "occupy something" crowd. Ross Perot caused Clinton to be elected lst term with his 3rd party run. I understand your emotion about Romney, but he is NOT Obama. Newt may have time to overtake him. It is still early:)

you are exactly right , romney represents the status quo, only difference is gm and chysler would now be out of business if romney was president he would of bailed out the banks but told the auto plants to go to he!!

@hot daddy-4087878 Romney is Obama Lite, so voting for Romney is virtually saying I like Obama I just don't want it to be a democrat in office.

Order of preference on current pool of candidates

1. Dr. Ron Paul
2. Herman Cain but quickly sliding towards 3rd
3. Rick Santorum
4. Newt Gingrich
5. Jon Huntsman

of the others that remain some I'd vote for if they were selected, but definately not Romney nor Jimmy.