Tomorrow is Veterans Day. Iraq/Afghanistan veterans are on their way home. And while our economy has added more than 350,000 private sector jobs over the past three months, more than 850,000 service women and men are unemployed.

President Obama has two provisions scheduled for Congress that will put our veterans back to work: the Returning Heroes Tax Credit and the Wounded Warriors Tax Credit. The American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Iraq and Aghanistan Veterans of America and Veterans of Foreign Wars announced their support. IAVA Founder and Executive Director Paul Rieckoff said, "There is no better way to show veterans that Washington really honors their service this Veterans Day (11/11/11), than by unanimously passing this legislation."

Also announced were three executive actions that will make searching for work easier: The Veteran Gold Card, My Next Move for Veterans, and Creating a Veterans Job Bank. All of these easy-to-use-tools help veterans transition to civilian life, and offer pathways to help them obtain professional civilian certification for jobs they learned in the military.

This shouldn't be a partisan issue - our veterans need bold action from Congress on jobs.

Seventy percent of Americans support the provisions in the American Jobs Act. It is inconceivable that GOPtp went as far as to block debate of the AJA three times. And said no to 2 million jobs at such a fragile moment in our economic recovery. Congressionals sent these men and women off to war, and now it falls to Congress to reward them for their bravery and service.

www.whitehouse.gov/vets

Brain Freeze you say?

Little Ricky would of been better off self-medicating before the debate like he did in NH...

At least THAT performance was entertaining! lol

Last night he put the 'scarecrow' to shame...

If he only had a brain instead of a snow-cone taking up the space alloted for one!

Slurpee's for everyone this morning! ;o)

THAT was not a debate. THAT was not about the economy. THAT was a preview of carnage. Not a trace of the Party of Lincoln remains in this insane caricature of the Republican Party. Eight candidates ranging from the "What is this guy doing here?" Huntsman, to the lunatic Rick Perry leave no doubt the G.O.P. is devoid of both heart and soul.

You watch this spectacle in stunned disbelief. What would be hyperbole in a sane world, is merely business as usual for this crowd. The remedy for the sagging economy brings to mind the old joke, "How to be a millionaire". First, you get a million dollars........ Over and over we heard how we needed a strong economy. First, you need a strong economy. We'd have a strong economy, but government hates business. Government loves failure and Democrats love government.

The Republozombies drooled waiting for their raw meat, and eight candidates didn't disappoint. The feeding frenzy began with appetizers. Dodd-Frank! Regulation! Uncertainty! The government beast hates and victimizes Republicans. Maria Bartiromo - uppity media-type and a damned woman, to boot - wanted a bit of clarification on that. Bitch! Women are to be seen and pregnant. Shut up and don't question our talking points.

Each of the eight fought to raise the stakes in their promises for a more and more savage death for evil government. "Just give us knives and bludgeons." The Texans of course wanted chainsaws. Ron Paul would kill it, but not with the same gusto as Perry, who was so overwhelmed he couldn't remember where he'd start and where he'd finish. "Just gimme the damned chainsaw!"

Oh yeah, about the economy. Well, according to Gingrich that was the fault of the media, you know, those ignorance-worshiping lefties.. We just don't understand Economics, because the media won't interview the OWS folks. That must be true, because Gingrich is the intellectual, isn't he?

For the rest, when it comes to economic answers, they have the mental equivalent of a function key. "How would I fix the economy? Let's see, I believe that's F9. Yes, cut taxes on the rich and raise them on the poor." Cain has a slightly more detailed function key. "Shut up! I have a bold plan....very, very bold. Cut taxes on the rich and beat the living crap out of the poor." Perry has one single key for everything. "Just gimme a chainsaw." Romney actually has two function keys - F6 and F7. One is flip, the other is flop.

The Tuesday election is now history. The boots hit the ground on Tuesday and we won a serious battle. The glow of victory was shattered in two short hours last night.

President Obama take note. This is a fight and we are damned sure ready for it. Your efforts to compromise, your attempt to bring conciliation to our government is laudable, but it is taken as a sign of weakness by the right wing. Mr. President, we are NOT weak. No more olive branches.

Backhouse

This shouldn't be a partisan issue - our veterans need bold action from Congress on jobs.

Seventy percent of Americans support the provisions in the American Jobs Act. It is inconceivable that GOPtp went as far as to block debate of the AJA three times. And said no to 2 million jobs at such a fragile moment in our economic recovery. Congressionals sent these men and women off to war, and now it falls to Congress to reward them for their bravery and service.

www.whitehouse.gov/vets

What an excellent way to start the day off by reminding everyone what we, all of us, as Americans should value. Unfortunately, it has been the bravado the right celebrates instead of the needs of the Armed Forces.

Hopefully, now see your message posted from www.whitehouse.gov/vets they will began to see what real Americans need to do.

I've been a political junkie just about my entire life. I’ve watched just about every presidential debate since the Nixon/Kennedy debates in 1960. I cannot find words to describe how bad, how disgusting, how pathetic, how almost sad that so called debate was we saw last night. The Republican Presidents of the past from Lincoln to Bush 43 must be embarrassed by what has happened to their party.

Backhouse, terrific post and perfect timing for Veterans Day. It is hard to imagine that the GOP would block these measures but after the last nearly 3 years, nothing would surprise me.

Charlie, no doubt about it.

Noted female conservative commentator defending the republican field: "All the candidates have their little pecadillos."
Cain response: "I can assure you my pecadillo is not small. Now how about dinner, princess?"
Perry response: "The American people understand that I'm an imbecile. But they understand that it's an understandably common human trait amongst us."

I cannot find words to describe how bad, how disgusting, how pathetic, how almost sad that so called debate was we saw last night.

I'm having the same problem this morning Charlie!

It was beyond agonizing watching that debate mess!

So that's what those damn function keys are for David! I suspected they could be used for nefarious reasons,lol.

Thoroughly enjoyed the debate last night. First time "hard questions" were asked, they didn't like them and had trouble answering them. Perry, a joke. Cain a liar and as far as question on Italy's financial woes, I doubt if half of them could find it on the map. They don't even understand our financial problems, let alone Italy's.

Obama in 2012.

Perry's new campaign song should be; 'Ooop's I did it again'!

Hermie already snatched up; 'Girls Just Want to Have Fun'...

Here is one fact check (reality check) from WaPo this morning....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-cnbc-debate/2011/11/09/gIQACwL86M_blog.html

This morning I'm feeling like a princess! ; )

Yeah Cain had a decent debate, lol. I particularly like his statement "for every women accusing me of sexual harassment, there are thousands out there that have not". Good one Hermie!

Cain has gone from being the "feel good" candidate to the "good feel" candidate!

To all the liberal haters on First Read I must point out that a party's political nominee is supposed to reflect the wants and needs of the party he or she is representing.

Do any of us really think anybody on earth better represents the wants and needs of the Republican/Tea Party better than Herman Cain and Rick Perry? The Republican Party and the Tea Party (not that there is any difference) have already told us what they want; they want Government to get its hands off Medicare.

Not to be too blunt, but the GOP is a party of the proudly ignorant and militantly misinformed.

Cain/Perry 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!

Brain freeze- painful to watch.

Hero worship- revealing.

Domenico- Obama did not coin " a rising tide lifts all boats". That was Jack Kennedy.

I doubt Obama even knows what it means.

To Anthony- your snarky little tweet in regard to Bachman's comment on Chinese computer chips and defense components revealed your own ignorance on the subject
http://www.dailytech.com/US+GOA+40+Percent+of+Defense+Supply+Chain+Damaged+by+Chinese+Parts/article21937.htm

Bachman says a lot of dumb things, but this is the second time on this site she has been mocked for making statements that were absolutely true.

Do a little research before you start mocking others. Or, maybe, don't bother. It's just great when you reveal your bias for all to see.

he should have suggested removal of the three most corrupt agencies of the fed govt: abc, cbs and nbc.

Thanks, nisl. I take your statement to mean that democrats want and need nine per cent unemployment, rising inflation, a stuttering recovery, civilian employment levels back to 1983 levels, corruption as embodied in the Dollars for Donors program, and its attendant astronomical debt level, among other "accomplishments".

It's nice of you to spell that out for us.

David Walker,

Your witty summation of the GOP debate reveals the disarray in the Republican party.

Romney needs to wrap this up quickly in the early primaries. The rest can then go on to continue to sell their books, get a cable news gig or go back to Texas or the 6th district of MN.

But instead, boat loads of money will be spent to prop up these folks for a few more months.

The best person on stage last night was Maria B. Her question to old Newt, "What exactly about the economy did the media get wrong?" Newt also had brain freeze ...no answer.

Domenico- Obama did not coin " a rising tide lifts all boats". That was Jack Kennedy.

Look at that!

The old dog found herself another bone to gnaw on... lol

Oooops, I forgot, she did come out and endorse Perry! LMAO

"Bachman says a lot of dumb things, but this is the second time on this site she has been mocked for making statements that were absolutely true."

no jo- what the hell do YOU know about making statements that are 'absolutely true'??

But going back to these candidates: Where the hell do the Republicans come up with losers like this batch? There has to be a highschool graduate somewhere out there that knows more than these pathetic clowns.

I wonder- when Rick runs again for Texas Governor again, do you thik those folks will elect him AGAIN? I bet they do.

I wonder how much the Democrats are paying the Republicans to put on these anti-Republican infomercials. Wait, I meant to call them debates, not anti-Republican infomercials. Whoops.

The entire Republican field, via their own conspicuous lack of intelligence and/or soul, violates Reagan's 11th commandment.

"The old dog found herself another bone to gnaw on... lol"

Speaking of which- just where are all the other old dogs again this morning? Must have been a rough couple of days, eh?

Thanks, no joe. I take your statement as a perfect example of the nature of your party as I have previously described it.

Speaking of which- just where are all the other old dogs again this morning?

I was wondering the same thing Buzz...

They must be licking their self-inflicted wounds! ;o)

Backhouse, David Walker, Bev, great stuff this morning. David, you are really, really putting up some good thoughts in colorful, expressive forms! Keep it up, we need you here!

I began watching last night's dullness and gave it up as I had run out of antacid tablets. After reading the article yesterday about economists giving all the GOP candidates an "F" on economics, it was evident that no one was going to seriously offer workable ideas about the future of the nation.

It hardly is a surprise, then, to read now that none of the speakers last night wanted to touch the Eurozone issues. Remember, all of these candidates (except Huntsman when it comes to China) have no interest whatsoever in the rest of the world. They go out of their way to make disparaging remarks about other lands and continents.

As I noted in an earlier post on the FR topic before this one, the definition of a nation is at stake in this election. These buffoons would take us back not merely to 1840, but even to the England of the 1630's. They are all fighting over issues long ago settled, because they haven't a clue, not one of them, about not simply history but the needs and concerns of a major world power in times of distress. (Gingrich is especially an idiot when it comes to knowledge of history and perspective, principally becuase he fools himself that he is an expert. Not so - he's simply an arrogant, self-important fat fool.)

David Walker, well said.

California Tom, LOL. Italy is right next to ubecki becki becki stan stan.

mitchj, guess you buy the "blame the media" used car the GOP is selling. You left off FOX which is without doubt the most corrupt and blantantly dishonest excuse for media and don't forget Rush Limbaugh.

NJNB -- You may have to find another candidate to endorse soon....is that what's prompting your hissy fit this morning or was it the lack of substance in the answers given in last night's debate. Pretty disappointing I know.

David,

Excellent post as always. In regard to your comment about the glow of victory being shattered, this is a never-ending slog against people who want to turn out the lights altogether.

NISL - glad to see you agree with me on something, just wondering how many in the Republican party actually honor it, picking a nominee is supposed to be between the nominees and their party - unfortunately, especially here in Tennessee, the republicans only to gladly go to the polls and vote in the Democratic primary, choosing the weakest candidate for the Democrats, simply so who ever they nominate wins. I've been here all my life (58 years) and they've done it in every single election we have ever had. They are getting a little nervous though because most of us have decided to turn the tables and vote in their primary, then in the general vote for whomever our nominee is. Gonna be fun, especially in the US senate races to see how that plays out cause it never feels quite as good when the trick gets played on the trickster, now does it?

With very few distinctions from one another, what we saw last night was a Republican orthodoxy - less government intervention and more reliance on free market enterprise. Which means Government deliberate support for wall street, corporations, and the rich to keep screwing the middle class (99%) under the pretense of job creation while doubling down on income wealth disparity.

For the GOP crew not to have acknowledged the success of the bailouts was a complete show of shame. Over 2 million jobs have been created since 2008 in the private sector. If their were no bailouts of any kind in 2008, what would have been the faith of this economy? This was a question that was begging for an answer from the GOP line up but to no avail.

While our "historian" no jo corrects the attribution of the line "a rising tide lifts all boats" it might do well to remember that when John Kennedy referenced that, he was generally talking about how government can use its resources to encourage industry...kind of like it did with GM.

To say that Perry had a brain freeze implies that he has a functioning brain, which is questionable at this point. Wondering no jo, if he is still your candidate of choice?

There is another story, and I wonder if Romney is serious about letting the housing market just bottom out? He says that it will cause the economy to "reboot" and interesting thought given how many people would be thrown out of work.

Romney is most fortunate that no one is listening to what he says. Everyone is too focused on Cain and his peccadillo's, and Perry, who is the biggest clown in the car!

Union Baby, Tennessee - it never feels quite as good when the trick gets played on the trickster, now does it?

Turn about is fair play. I don't think I'd go so far as to vote in the Republican primary though. I might, but I doubt it. The whole "Operation Chaos" thing from 2008 was a bit silly in my opinion, and it didn't work at all. Looking back on it, I find it hilarious that a bunch of Ditto Head halfwits voted for Hillary Clinton. I remember the 90s; there is nobody in the world those voters hated more than the Clintons.

That said, I'll temper my criticism as much as I can given the ridiculous nature of the chuckle heads the GOP is running.

Wrong, new day. Kennedy was talking about cutting taxes- across the board- and was asked to justify cutting taxes on "the rich".

Twist and shout- doesn't change a thing.

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R) had a similar brain freeze during a debate. And while many thought it could damage her candidacy, she went on to win re-election easily.

Then again, before that, nobody even thought Brewer had a brain to freeze in te first place. So it actually helped her. She was and is a puppet for the Nazis.

Where's Spamky, I mean Spanky??

commonsense... - Dude, don't go there. Godwin's Law. That kind of comment is never acceptable about anyone, not even Brewer.

Perry was wise to dodge debates with his Democratic opponent during his last campaign. If he hadn't, we'd be referring to former Houston mayor Bill White as "Governor White" right now.

By the way, Romney is right on the housing market. HadmObama stayed out of the foreclosure process, it would have bottomed out two years ago, and we'd be well into the housing recovery- along with all those construction jobs that go along with a housing recovery.

He had to get into it, though, and impose his ivory tower "salvation"- prolonging the crisis, and actually, in many instances, exacerbating it.

He had one, single, good plan- the tax credit for first time buyers. He let that expire- and the little bit of recovery we saw from it expired with it.

He never even fought to reauthorize it- I guess he didn't understand how it was working.

NDDR:

There is another story, and I wonder if Romney is serious about letting the housing market just bottom out? He says that it will cause the economy to "reboot" and interesting thought given how many people would be thrown out of work.

He also wanted to let the US auto industry collapse, too. But I'm sure that after he gets the nomination from the teabagger-infested primaries, he'll flip-flop and obfuscate his positions on both issues and a lot more to keep general election voters so confused, enough of them will mistake him for a moderate to get him into the White House, to which he seems to think he's entitled by birth.

no joe, no bo, nj

By the way, Romney is right on the housing market. HadmObama stayed out of the foreclosure process, it would have bottomed out two years ago, and we'd be well into the housing recovery- along with all those construction jobs that go along with a housing recovery.

Yeah, sure. Just like he was right about letting the US auto industry collapse. The guy is a regular Nostradamus on the economy.

HadmObama stayed out of the foreclosure process, it would have bottomed out two years ago,

No it wouldn't have. Real estate downturns typically take six years to turn around. I don't know who told you that, but they were either misinformed or making things up.

Sorry, no jo: you are wrong. The right wing has bastardized Kennedy's legacy so much that they are convinced that he is a Republican. When he lowered the tax rate, he went from a confiscatory 90% to about 70%. For you to be correct, he would have had to lower it to the current rate. He didn't.

Second: Romney would throw this country into an unending depression if he were President and did nothing about housing. You are simply wrong about that too.

Third: if you look at Kennedy's Presidency, you will see I am right. He was not afraid to use the government resources when he needed to. He was not a supply sider, and it is an insult to his memory to suggest that he is.

But, the evidence is in his speeches. Go read them.

Romney did want to let the auto industry collapse Houston. He is simply wrong about all of this.

Not to be too blunt, but the GOP is a party of the proudly ignorant and militantly misinformed.

The best analogy of the GOP aka the GOTP.

Cain/Perry 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!

One can only laugh... ah hope!

Obama/ Biden 2012, the alternative would be simply ludicrous.

The guy is a regular Nostradamus on the economy.

More like Ignoramus.

Backhouse,

Congressionals sent these men and women off to war, and now it falls to Congress to reward them for their bravery and service.

I'm with you shoulder-to-shoulder on that one, bro. It just amazes me when people like McCain want to cut veterans' benefits. The Republicans are great on waving on the flag as our troops go marching off to war, but they turn their heads away when the troops come home.

Well NDD since every time someone disagrees with you they are wrong, I guess there is no sense in posting here any more, eh?

Gee, if only it were that easy.

The Libs on this boards ignorance is only eclipsed by their incredible arrogance.

No Jo - He had one, single, good plan- the tax credit for first time buyers. He let that expire- and the little bit of recovery we saw from it expired with it.

No Jo, as you've credited an Obama policy or an idea as successful I will reciprocate. Since you had a note about Bachman in this tread, I will agree with something that she said at the debate.

I think Bachman was correct to be against the social security tax reduction last year and this year. As I've said before the extra 20 or 25 bucks a pay period I or anyone is credited is not worth adding billions to the deficit.

Concerning your post about the housing market, one point. It is really hard to make these tough, sweeping policy decisions that would affect millions of people. For Romney to press that people need to just go bankrupt or lose their house sooner, I don't understand how that helps those people. Were are talking about hundreds of thousands if not millions, we can't just look away.

The Obama admin. has tried to implement a way for people to rework their mortgages. Even though it hasn't helped the number it was supposed to, I'm sure those in their homes are well served. I don't see how Romney's plan to let the market run its course and foreclose would help them.

A couple of points,unfortunate lapses,(and We have all had them, admit it), like the one that happened to Rick Perry , in the past, would have been the kiss of death to a candidate, (when You fumble in the Superbowl that's usually it), but now, with the multiple debate format, it was more likened to one bad game in a baseball season,looked pretty awful ,but still plenty of time to recover.The second point is the coverage of Herman Cain, After day and night repetition of baseless allegations by mostly unidentified accusers with ad nauseum rabid coverage by the MSM, as soon as names and faces start to be put to those accuser's and it is discovered that all of them identified to date, have ties to the Obama Administration, the story just absolutely disappears, now I know there are those that will say ,Oh, those links are just circumstantial, well lets look at the "circumstances" shall We, through the cold hard light of statistics and probability, in a nation of three hundred million some odd people, just what are the odds of the ONLY identified accusers of a Presidential candidate, to come forward with unsubstantiated sexual harassment allegations, all from more than a decade ago,that ALL would have ties to the Candidate of the opposing Party? I would say they are probably pretty slim ,(as in infinitesimal), but I don't have a super computer at my disposal to figure out the exact number, but, if You want an easier problem to figure out, What are the odds of the MSM dropping the story like a hot potato when it starts to go south on them,(just listen to the response that was given by the crowd last night at the Presidential debate, to the questioning of Mr. Cain, where in the one question he was asked on the subject and guilt was already obviously assumed by the moderators,they were roundly booed and that was the end of that), just from empirical observation ,I would say it's pretty close to 100%.

no blow.

Thanks, nisl. I take your statement to mean that democrats want and need nine per cent unemployment, rising inflation, a stuttering recovery, civilian employment levels back to 1983 levels, corruption as embodied in the Dollars for Donors program, and its attendant astronomical debt level, among other "accomplishments".

It's nice of you to spell that out for us.

It is also nice of you to point out your delusion is still strong despite the fact that it is crumbling before you.

I would be angry too if the spoon fed delusion I were so vested in were falling apart along with the circus of clowns running on those delusions.

LOL!!!

I never thought I'd see a man who was far more inarticulate and alert that GW Bush, but now I have. He is so unprepared to be a real leader, so Texasss dumb. What's worse is the Republican debate audiences. They really seem to have no morals. They remind me of a Jerry Springer audience. Very low class, shallow and vicious people who lack any kind of civic-mindedness. I feel so sorry for America. We are surrounded by dummies.

The second point is the coverage of Herman Cain, After day and night repetition of baseless allegations by mostly unidentified accusers with ad nauseum rabid coverage by the MSM, as soon as names and faces start to be put to those accuser's and it is discovered that all of them identified to date, have ties to the Obama Administration, the story just absolutely disappears, now I know there are those that will say ,Oh, those links are just circumstantial, well lets look at the "circumstances" shall We, through the cold hard light of statistics and probability, in a nation of three hundred million some odd people, just what are the odds of the ONLY identified accusers of a Presidential candidate, to come forward with unsubstantiated sexual harassment allegations, all from more than a decade ago,that ALL would have ties to the Candidate of the opposing Party?

OK, JD Still, I'll bite. What proof or source(s) do you have to back up your claim(s) that the detractors of Herman Cain are from the Democratic Party? If you are thinking that because Gloria Allred is in the middle of all of this, you are more delusional than your post. Gloria Allred is in this 'fight' for Gloria Allred amd as much time as she can get in front of the television camera.

I often wondered why Herman Cain dropped that little sound byte of 'the Democrat party' in his press conference. I now see it was a dog whistle for people like you, JD Still.

Carry on.

J.D. Still is totally right. Herman Cain is innocent! Never mind the fact that the accusers are far more closely tied to the GOP than the Democrats. And let us ignore that the most likely purveyor of these allegations is Team Rick Perry. Let us instead focus on how awesomely awesome Herman Cain is.

Go. Donate to Herman Cain and do it today. I know, he didn't know China had nukes and had never heard of neocons. Those things are irrelevant. What matters is that Herman Cain (and Rick Perry for that matter) is the very embodiment of today's Republican party.

Voters deserve a choice. And I think that in the general election one of those choices should be Herman Cain!

Cainmentum baby!!!!

Funny thing about how Obama saved the auto industry - how bankrupcy is so devastating.

Weren't the Texas Rangers in bankrupcy a little over a year ago .... new owners, reorganization, etc .... and a few months later - their first trip ever to the World Series .... followed this year .... with another trip to the World Series?

Thank goodness GM was saved from a chance to have such devastating success, huh?

And one last thing about Obama saving the "US" auto industry .... isn't 1/2 of what he saved now an Italian company?

"Hiya kids, hiya, hiya" Froggy

Once again there is GOP blood in the water and the sharks are tearing at the bloody corpse. I can't get too excited about Perry's gaffe. That kind of thing happens to me all the time. Right in the middle of a sentence I have a brain fart and completely loose my train of thought. I just have to feel sorry for him.

Nothing here to see, move along, move along. Perry was Texas Toast long before last night, somebody haul his corpse to the morgue and be done with it. Don't dance on his grave. Let the people of Texas decide his fate. Likewise, Michelle Bachman. Ms. Bachman is a sad excuse for a national figure, far more embarrassing than Sarah Palin or even the little "witchy woman" from the Northeast. (See, I can't even remember her name, I feel your pain Rick)

The people of those respective states need to deal with these national embarrassments. They are a sad sad commentary on the state of our current political system.

And then there is Herman Cain. Well, based on 50% sampling of the current accusers it would appear Mr. Cain has very specific tastes in his victims. White and blonde. Interesting. Mr. Cain is also done and other than any remaining civil actions (I'm sure the time has run on those) or findings of transgressions by the Feds with regards to his relationships with the Koch brothers he will likewise exit the national stage very soon. I doubt he'll even get a deal from FOX now.

So, we're down to the seeds and stems of the GOP baggie. Roll another one and smoke 'em if ya got 'em but the last man standing is Romney, as I"ve said all along.

Mitt may be the saddest one of all. He's got it all. Looks, money, a famous political heritage but it must be painfully obvious to even him that the majority of the GOP do not want him. Oh, Mitt's the guy, he's going to get the nomination. The only remaining question is who he will choose for his running mate. Certainly not Bachman, Cain, Perry or Christie. I still think Pawlenty has earned the right of first refusal, and he won't refuse.

Yes, despite all the gloom and doom of the so-called professional political observers 2012 is shaping up to be a re-election landslide for President Obama. The GOP knows it. Mitt is just a place-holder, someone to take his turn and then be set aside as the GOP prepares for the real race, 2016.

So, Plunk your magic twanger Froggy.

Obama' Biden 2012

no blow.

By the way, Romney is right on the housing market. HadmObama stayed out of the foreclosure process, it would have bottomed out two years ago, and we'd be well into the housing recovery- along with all those construction jobs that go along with a housing recovery.

He had to get into it, though, and impose his ivory tower "salvation"- prolonging the crisis, and actually, in many instances, exacerbating it.

He had one, single, good plan- the tax credit for first time buyers. He let that expire- and the little bit of recovery we saw from it expired with it.

He never even fought to reauthorize it- I guess he didn't understand how it was working.

Your projections and ignorance are amusing.

The projection: Obama's meddling with the foreclosure process made it worse.

Huh? The banks are holding back foreclosures for two reasons. They do not want to flood the market, and thus lose more money, and they simply did not have enough people qualified to handle the volume.

The ignornance: Obama let the tax credit expire, and never tried to reauthorize it.

They did extend the tax credit, three times. The first time in the stimulus, they extended and expanded the tax credit. The second time they extended it to April 2010. And the third time they extended it to September 2010.

The reason it was not extended further is because many economists believed any further usage would have been used on people who would have bought anyway. In short, further extention was not believed to have much benifit.

Study up, jr. (LOL!!! You should probably stop telling others to do some research until you learn the issues a little better.)

nisl:

J.D. Still is totally right. Herman Cain is innocent! Never mind the fact that the accusers are far more closely tied to the GOP than the Democrats. And let us ignore that the most likely purveyor of these allegations is Team Rick Perry. Let us instead focus on how awesomely awesome Herman Cain is.

skip:

Nothing here to see, move along, move along.

Yous guys pretty much somed up the mindset of the average GOP voter.

Dumb, dee, dee, dumb, dumb, dumb....

LOL!!!

J.D.

After day and night repetition of baseless allegations by mostly unidentified accusers with ad nauseum rabid coverage by the MSM

A perfect example of a willfully deluded conservative preserving said delusion with a conspriacy.

LOL!!!

Dumb, dee, dee, dumb, dumb, dumb...

Republicants - Do you ever get the feeling that the Republicans are just playing us? Like maybe they are reading from a script written by Matt Parker and Trey Stone and it is all some elaborate practical joke?

These people are so ridiculous it is hard to believe they are serious.

-

-

I don't understand the jumping all over Perry for his brain freeze moment. Everyone is entitled to a gaffe now and then. I'm more concerned about what their stances are in a bigger context than a single debate. Frankly, Perry scares me. Read the article in the current image of Rolling Stone and you'll be shocked and would never vote for the guy.

Cain's 9-9-9 plan and his other stances to me are bad enough that regardless of how he weathers the harassment issue, he's not the guy for the job.

Romney seems to be the best option, but his Mass. Healthcare plan, his previously moderate and left leaning positions, and his history with Bain Capital are going to turn him off to much of the conservative base. You have to face the facts. Romney will not push to repeal the health care law and will not back most of the ultra-right causes (abortion,same-sex marriage,etc...) with much if any conviction. He's a moderate regardless of how he tries to sell himself.

Actually technically Romney is the ONLY real Conservative (using the established definition) in the pack with the rest all being Reactionaries.

My money is on a Tea Party or other conservative line 3rd party candidate coming on to the scene a bit further down the road.

nisl.

LOL!!! Given the clowns on that stage, it is not unreasonable.

Here's the republican's retort on the debate:

"Perry is a democratic plant funded by George Soros, and perpetuated by Bill Ayers and Dodd-Frank finance law"...

Last night's debate was the most useless thing I've seen on TV in a long time, I doubt I would ever watch another republican debate with these set of losers. If I were John huntsman, I would drop, so as not be labeled with the crazies on stage". I don't watch Jersey Shores' but that would have been a movie night compared to the spectacle that showed themselves on TV last night.... it was God awful...

Compared to the president, they are either intellectual midgets or just plain dishonest. Wow, just wow...if you missed the debate, you do not need to go watch it, I've summarized it for you below.... mark my words, it's a concise summary.

• What would you do about jobs? Repeal Oooobaaaama care...
• what would you do about China? Repeal Oooobaaama care....
• what would you do to spur the economy? deregulate and reduce taxes on the rich.
• but aren't the Rich getting the biggest tax breaks today, and wont it hurt the deficits? no, they need more tax breaks.. so maybe they will start to create jobs.
• but the rich are the richest they've ever been? well, they need to keep what they earn... they deserved it, not you peasants that want stuff handed to you.

Just this morning, I listened to an NPR article about an 80 year old cement factory surrounded by a town of 9,000. An extremely high number of residents have cancer and the cement plant throws out 500 pounds of mercury per year into the atmosphere. Coincidence - I think not!

Yet we hear clamoring to get rid of the EPA and that over-regulation is killing jobs. Ever think that de-regulation will kill people - or does that not matter so much? With the consensus growing that we are experiencing climate change, we need to be very, very careful

My! We do seem to have struck a nerve haven't We? Well , Where to begin?, Gloria Allred Seems to be a good spot, Now, if You ignore for the moment That Ms. Allred"s current client,(where in the world would an broke , unemployed lady such as her new client, get the money to retain someone such as Ms. Allred anyway?), lived in the same apartment building in CHICAGO, as David Axlerod, who just so happened to be the attorney for a complainant in a case against Ms. Allred's client,( hmmmmm? I wonder just what she could possibly do to make that case disappear?), Just what is Ms. Allred , (the political assassin of Meg Whitman, You remember, when good ol'Gloria brought out her client she cared sooooo much about, but now seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth, poor little Nikki, the illegal alien that she alleged Ms Whitman treated so badly,without a shred of proof, and in the heat of another election, that gave the election to her pal and best bud, fellow Dem Jerry Brown), doing all the way over in CHICAGOLAND? are there no lawyers there? and as for the second "accuser" who seems to make a living off of sexual allegations, well, She works for the Obama Administration,other than that ,they are as pure as the snow on a Chicago street,.............. a week after it has fallen.

These GOP wackos are a perfect example of what sinister greed looks like.

Belfast Lad- not to sound snooty but if all those people have cancer, it would seem to me the EPA isn't doing it's job anyway so why waste the money?

little bobby numbers

the only parallel I see in your Rangers/GM 'metaphor' is that somewhere in the middle of it,...former President Bush was involved during the demise and President Obama was 'there' when it turned around.

no sense of irony whatsoever, eh? thanks,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mike numbers

okay, I'll bite,...does this mean we won't hear anymoe about 57 states? (don't forget, he corrected himself in the next sentence,...)

J.D.

My! We do seem to have struck a nerve haven't We?

Nope.

I am merely amused at your willful ignorance, and the lengths you go to preserve your spoon fed delusion.

Projections, deflections and conspiracies.....OH MY!!! LOL!!!

Republicants - excellent response to NJBJ and it needs close scrutiny by the press and congress. It is the bankers dragging the real estate market along by slowly releasing foreclosed homes onto the market in order to manipulate the hit to their balance sheets.

I do wish I had access to that 'back in time' crystal ball that NJBJ uses to predict the 'if only' scenarios. Like, if only Obama hadn't been elected, unemployment would be -25%, the debt would be a surplus of $20T, and we would all be gathered in a circle holding hands gleefully singing "This land is your land..."

Republicants

"Conspriacy"??????,(Just a suggestion, but when You want to use derision against someone, to show how intellectually superior You and Your argument are,and that's all You got, check Your spelling).

J.D.

Republicants

"Conspriacy"??????,(Just a suggestion, but when You want to use derision against someone, to show how intellectually superior You and Your argument are,and that's all You got, check Your spelling).

Yea, jr, conspiracies, deflections and projections. All rationaitizing the delusion you were spoon fed.

Your post is a perfect example, again.

You deflected from the fact that you are rationaizing the accusations toward Cain using some vast conspriacy by projecting on to me a superiority complex, when the reality is, you are simply ignorant and quite easy to mock. (Your fault, jr, not mine.)

And then you point to spelling errors.

BWHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!!!!

Dumb, dee, dee, dumb, dumb, dumb...

RedDev.

I do wish I had access to that 'back in time' crystal ball that NJBJ uses to predict the 'if only' scenarios. Like, if only Obama hadn't been elected, unemployment would be -25%, the debt would be a surplus of $20T, and we would all be gathered in a circle holding hands gleefully singing "This land is your land..."

NJBJ and the rest of the delusional have to do as you say. The facts, analysis, etc simply does not support the projection based delusion they were spoon fed.

So they rationalize and project even more, justifying thier previous B.S. with new B.S.

It is very amusing to watch.

Sorry NJNB, Jack Kennedy wasn't talking about cutting taxes when he first used the "Rising tides" analogy (which he actually borrowed from the slogan of the then New England Council). He was indeed talking about the need for the government to invest in economic stimulus activites during a speech defending the building of the Greer's Ferry Dam. His actual words were "

These projects produce wealth, they bring industry, they bring jobs, and the wealth they bring brings wealth to other sections of the United States. This State had about 200,000 cars in 1929. It has a million cars now. They weren't built in this State. They were built in Detroit. As this State's income rises, so does the income of Michigan. As the income of Michigan rises, so does the income of the United States. A rising tide lifts all the boats and as Arkansas becomes more prosperous so does the United States and as this section declines so does the United States. So I regard this as an investment by the people of the United States in the United States.

The link to the entire speech is #axzz1dK219amz

Republicants

Wow,,gee golligangs, I give up! How could I possibly argue against such a rational, well thought out ,response, and so eloquently expressed! ..... but,..... just to humor me, You and Your pals asked for facts to back up my assertions, which I gave, now I would ask the same of You , give me something, anything,in the way of evidence,that You have against Mr. Cain, I will be waiting breathlessly for Your enlightenment.

For some reason the link isn't attaching correctly. It should be #axzz1dK219amz or if the doesn't work just go to the American Presidency Project at UCSB, www.presidency.ucsb.edu

1SGFitzsWife4ID -

Belfast Lad- not to sound snooty but if all those people have cancer, it would seem to me the EPA isn't doing it's job anyway so why waste the money?

I heard the same broadcast. There is an investigation under way to attempt to learn whether this is a "cancer cluster" attributable to some of the toxins in the emissions from the plant's smokestack. The plant uses toxic wastes for fuel in its furnace - and despite an efficient scrubber system that removes ash and other visible pollutants efficiently, it does not capture the micron- and sub-micron-sized particles of toxins in the smokestack gasses. The story as I recall it did not specifically name those particles in relation to that particular stack, but reported more generally that toxic-waste-fueled generators emit mercury, lead, cadmium and other substances.

Regulations that drive technology to allow capture of tiny particles known to be harmful are being contemplated. The technology actually exists in the case of such very dangerous particulates in emissions as hexavalent chrome and benzine. Those regulations were first adopted in California about three decades ago, and applied to the emissions from air conditioning plant stacks, chrome plating operations, and similar situations. The 3-M Company developed a Brownian-movement filtration system that did the job.

The establishment of regulations of that kind, especially on a national level, is very difficult. It is ferociously opposed by business groups, who claim that such emissions systems are "unproductive assets" that drain capital away from businesses and shareholders. However, those whose children attend a school near a chrome plating shop would say that the value of effective control of hexavalent chrome particulates is beyond price, for it is measured in the lives and health of their babies.

Hexavalent chrome, by the way, is the toxic pollutant found in the cooling ponds of the PG&E power plant in Hinkley, California (and is still there now) that was the centerpiece of the film, Erin Brokovich. I was the newspaper reporter who first broke that story.

Your argument is without merit. The EPA is not failing in its duty, it is struggling against strong opposition to fulfill its purpose. The EPA has been stopped before in important regulations - most notably that of standards for arsenic in drinking water, which haven't been updated since 1946. President Bush pulled the plug on that soon after he first took office 10 years ago.

In this matter, there is a process underway that could, and should, lead to stricter standards for toxic particulates in air emissions - if it can survive the efforts of the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, Americans for Progress, the Club for Growth, Americans for Tax Reform, and the other big business-backed conservative front groups to bar the way.

Yeow...it's another right wing conspiracy (did I spell that right?) the "ignore" buttons have been turned off again. My eyes, my eyes, I actually read one or two of their ditto-head zombie responses before I could look away. Ahhhhh, I'm going blind. Oh the humanity!

Republicants....no, what I am expressing is disdain for so much effort and bile being wasted on something I see as nothing more than a "senior moment". I have them all the time. Thank goodness I don't have mine on a nationally televised debate. Perry ceased to be a viable candidate weeks ago, all this piling on is unnecessary and frankly kind of ugly. That's why I say "move along, nothing to see here".

Obama/Biden 2012

You see that's why we needed less debates within these republican "$#^%$#^"

Imagine, if we didn't find out about Perry's moments by now, he would have had to debate the president...and that my friends would have been a site, wouldn't it.

I would have made some pop-corn and watch the debates in delight with my kids, while letting them know that "kids, that's why you need an education... you do not want to end up getting Perry-ed"...what a joke~!

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City, I know you hinted at senior moments with Perry shouldn't be so much of a big deal, but dude is not that old...if he's deteriorating that fast with his memory, imagine what being president would do to him in 4 years... so maybe he shouldn't for his family's sake... btw, if McCain was able to stay senile during the gruesome 2008 campaign and debates, I don't know why youngster Perry is having this much gaffes.... can I just say he's not ready much.

John A.-400474

Thank you, like I said I wasn't trying to sound snooty or as you put it "argumentative" I was simply asking a question, your post was wonderful and gave me a better insight into what exactly was happening. I'm conservative but I'm not a Republican to set the record straight. While I agree that some agencies need to be cut back and/or audited to cut out wasteful spending the EPA is not one of them.

Hey Perry....Pretty hard to steal Ron Pauls campaign fundamentals when it does not come from the heart!!!

Yup, 100% of a bunch of hot headed Tea smokers. The problem for Cain is that the silent majority WILL take the allegations seriously. Most with the attitude of "why chance it". As for unsubstantiated, companies do not pay to settle "unsubstantiated" claims of sexual harassment. Even though the agreement itself may contain no admission of guilt, the signature on the check does. At least that is the way the majority of people are going to see it, right or wrong.

Tunde, always nice to hear from you. I understand your concern, but Perry hasn't been a viable candidate for weeks now so why get all worked up about him?

I'm much more concerned about Herman Cain and his relationship with the Koch brothers than I am with Rick Perry's memory problems.

But seriously, I believe 2012 is in the bag. It's 2016 we need to be thinking about. That's when the fecal material will hit the ventilating system.

Obama/Biden 2012

BREAKING NEWS:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/herman-cain-loses-endorsement-american-mustache-institute-163342304.html

Pretty funny stuff! ; )

J.D.

Wow,,gee golligangs, I give up! How could I possibly argue against such a rational, well thought out ,response, and so eloquently expressed! ..... but,..... just to humor me, You and Your pals asked for facts to back up my assertions, which I gave, now I would ask the same of You , give me something, anything,in the way of evidence,that You have against Mr. Cain, I will be waiting breathlessly for Your enlightenment.

All I assurted, jr, was that you will rationalize, project, and come up with conspiracies to preserve your delusion.

Your posts are all the proof we need, kid.

LOL!!!

For example, your last post uses some anecdotal "facts" such as where someone lived (unsupported, but I will give you the benifit of the doubt) as "proof" this whole thing is fabricated.

You ignore the FACT that two other women got settlements (on the record, jr.) for Cain's alledeged sexual harasment, just as you ignore the fact that not one, two or three, but four women have accused Cain of harrassment. You also ignore his evolving story. Etc, etc, etc...

The fact is, jr, you will never believe Cain did anything wrong. He may be innocent, he may not be. But your posts are nothing more then attempts to exhonorate him by daemonizing the accusers, and ignoring the relevant facts that do not tell you what you want.

Don't they already have jobs in the military? Maybe they shouldn't quit those jobs?

Here's a great idea;

Let's choose our next President based on nice sounding rhetoric or avoidance of gaffe's instead of actual experience and accomplishments.

Oops, I'm sorry - We already did that in 2008, didn't we.

After 8 years of the last GOP dumb a$$, this country cannot afford another. The entire pack of pretenders are dim light bulbs. Romney and Huntsman are the only 2 that have the mental capacity to lead a herd of goats--and they're both further to the left, (based on their records), than President Obama.

Is it some sort of prerequisite that the guy on the GOP ticket has to have an IQ below 80?

Perry might be a clown ,but then again what's Biden? Lets see Corpseman, you people crack me up, like either party is filled with genius's . One party wants only rich members and the other wants to breast feed her whole life. Guess what middle class you're the pawns of both parties. Hey Obama ever heard of an open mike nice gaffe. I just love this game of gotcha. !5 trillion and growing lets reelect Obama. The Govt. money will pay for everything oh that's right the govt. money is really our money, I know i have a lot to throw away. anyone need a bailout?

Republicants

I am disappointed, Here I was waiting to be shown the error of my ways, and how I could improve my obviously inferior skills of deduction, and all You give me is.....this same, tired, old yada, yada, drivel, with the obligatory accompanying insults, Well, no matter, lets work with what We have Shall We, "Mr, Cain's alledeged sexual harasment",Now, I don't know much , but it seems to me alleged sexual harassment is a serious charge, and ,if proven,the perpetrator would immediately be fired, if not jailed, but in the cases You cite, Mr Cain remained at the Restaurant Association, and the ladies were given what amounted to severance packages and the old heave ho. Now if the allegations were in anyway even remotely having the slightest possibility to be true, and the women, were basically fired,While Cain was allowed to stay, that organization would be in so much trouble, they might as well hand the keys to their bank over to the good and virtuous ladies, but that never happened, and they were, indeed, fired, as to the" not one, two,or three but four, (two of them phantoms, yet to be seen or named),that I am attempting to"daemonize" , if I was going to Demonize anyone , it would be Your Presidential candidate by bringing forth a dozen unidentified, under aged, boys and girls, multiple farm animals,transvestites and midgets of various genders and sexual persuasions(unnamed and unidentified of course), all with sworn affidavits, that Mr Obama had indeed had his way with all of them,.... several times, forty years ago, while attending mosque in Indonesia, and according to Your logic, an allegation once made is, of course, the truth, until the person the allegation is about can disprove the negative,(at which time I would then bring forth even more allegations from nameless, faceless, accusers until it was accepted as truth), and that's all there is to it! You will have to excuse me if I insist on a bit more in the way of concrete facts, but, thanks, a heap ,for playing just the same.

Sage Quest:

Thanks for getting that right and posting it. I was on my way out the door, ran out of time. The right wing revisionists make me crazy. Jack Kennedy was no supply sider.

Kennedy used that phrase in other speeches, and as you and I have both said, it was about the power of the government to do right.

Hope to see you hear again.

oops, should be here again! Sorry!

ROY WILSON-336103

Oops, I'm sorry - We already did that in 2008, didn't we

Yes, we did. The "Great Mistake of 2008" haunts us now more than ever.

It's amusing to come over to the "First Thoughts" swamp every so often and hear the same dozen or so Socialista's mentally masturbating all over each other. Their delusion is only surpassed by their hystrionic hypocrisy and projections. We have the most incompetent and inexperienced imposter of a president trespassing in our White House and they still "Believe".

ROTFLMAO!

That hopey changey thingy must be hitting home now as our Debt spirals over $15 Trillion dollars. The Liberal Party of No is truly exposing themselves. It's nice they're doing it before the elections so that when we're all voting on whether to keep the criminal Socialist Progressive ideology in power, as our Debt exceeds $16 Trillion dollars or more by then, or sweep them out of power, it will be much easier.

As our Debt syrockets faster than ever under the alleged intelligence of our empty suit POTUS the American people will realize what a horrible mistake they made in 2008. When the EU collapses, as it must, and the ratings agencies downgrade our once envied bond ratings, again, the solution will be simple. Progressivism and its criminal usurpation of the Constitution will finally be exposed. When you include the debt of $3.2 Trillion and $2.3 Trillion respectively of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to our National Debt our Debt/GDP is over 130%. The Greeks and Italians will feel much better as our economy collapses with theirs.

But of course the Libbie's will refuse to touch their sacrosanct entitlements or social programs that are no longer sustainable. Their only solution will be, as usual, to take from the productive members of the Right and give it to their own beggars. "From each according to their ability, to each according to his needs wants" has become the marching order from the TOTUS and DNC. As the economy collapses around him Obama can't run on any accomplishments so of course he rises to his usual Saul Alinsky tactics of class warfare.

Regardless of whether this ridiculous unconstitutional Committee agrees on $1 Trillion or $2 Trillion dollars in debt reduction we will still be downgraded. Standard & Poor's told us in April they wanted between $4 Trillion and $6 Trillion dollars in reduction. This will require Draconian austerity measures to be incorporated. The indoctrinated and unable to survive on their own Liberals, will never allow this. They would rather see our great Federal Constitutional Republic fail.

So yes, rhetoric abounds from this pathetic administration, too bad no substance can be claimed.

I must say that IF and that again is, IF God did call up Mr. Perry on the phone to tell him to run he did it only out of self interest. That interest being humor. A good chuckle proving again that God does have a sense of humor. Michelle Bachman has proved this time and again but I think it important to note, and reaffirm that God in FACT,.. Does have a sense of humor.

Cheers

Rick Perry, Chris Christy, Herman Cain, John Kasich, the mindless twit from Wisconsin, the fop from Florida and all the other losers , hand picked by Karl Rove and pay for by the Koch brothers inheritance. Not one of these dunderheads have worked a day in their lives. Or Herman has had some "jobs" but he did not get his hands dirty.

As for Rick Perry's embarrassing display of stupidity last evening, it only proves one thing, each and everyone of these GOP candidates can be bought and sold. He any of them had to represent our country, the United States would look like cow patties.

And as Chris Mathews so eloquently put it in his "let me finish" statement last night, Hillary Clinton has done more good for this country by A. Knowing the facts. B. Her ability to communicate with all mankind. C. Her ability to have others, even enemies to respect and listen to her wisdom All of these facts and truth about Hillary Clinton proves she would have mopped up the floor with what the GOP has to offer.

It also proves, the Koch brothers may have inherited wealth from the ancestors but not their intelligence.

Never fear, Sarah Palin will soon be Helicoptered in, from a Elk hunt in Alaska, to save the day for the Tea Party led Republican party.

The sad part is, all these presidential wannabes make Dan Qualle or as I like to call him "Mr Potato(e) head, look like a potential candidate for the president, of the GOP. At least he can clean up the elephants poop, after the convention.

Look at his face. He is pretty much like a 1 year old that has pooped his pants. He is not sure exactly what happended, but he knows something stinks!!!

Since I am from Texas, it has gotten so bad that my butt starts to pucker everytime he opens his mouth!!

Please. He is from Texas. How in the heck do you forget energy when you are from Texas????

J.D.

according to Your logic, an allegation once made is, of course, the truth, until the person the allegation is about can disprove the negative,(at which time I would then bring forth even more allegations from nameless, faceless, accusers until it was accepted as truth), and that's all there is to it! You will have to excuse me if I insist on a bit more in the way of concrete facts, but, thanks, a heap ,for playing just the same.

No jr.

You are deflecting again.

I never said either way whether or not Cain is guilty or not. Personally, I am less concerned with these allogations then I am with his ignorance and naivete on the issues.

Once again. I only pointed out that you are blindly defending a man by ignoring the facts that do not tell you what you want to beleive, and using random anecdotal facts in an attempt to discredit the women making the accusations.

You insist the charges are fabricated despite the evolving story from Cain, and the fact that four different women have made the accusation, two of them filed complaints. (On the record, jr.)

If you were not a blind hack, you would not be so sure of Cain's innocence.

However, you are a blind hack, and thus will let nothing interfere with your delusion.

I have always believed in one thing, that if you know your subject, you need not worry about being under scrutiny at any time or anywhere.

The problem Gov. Perry has, he looks “vague” far too often. I think its time for the GOP to narrow it’s field of candidates.

Take thatback, could you please inform Hillary A. Pakistan wasn't involved in the killing of Bin Laden B. She was never under fire in Bosnia C. Shampoo and conditioner work wonders with your hair.

[Where's Spamky, I mean Spanky??]

Today is his weekly colon cleansing...he'll be on a bit later with the usual talking points.

Back on topic:

Perry is toast.

Republicant

Just saw on the Drudge report , a story that two nights ago when Mr Cain was giving his denial of all allegations, He was being monitored by a new computer software system that is used by over 70 law enforcement agencies around the country, that can detect through stress levels in the voice, whether or not an individual is telling the truth with an accuracy rate of 95%. The findings were, without a doubt Mr Cain was................TELLING THE TRUTH! Now I wonder if his accusers will submit to the same tests?

wlee...

The only difference between the two is that Hillary is in the job, Gov. Perry needs to be 100% all the time to get it.

As an Addendum: I really hope that technology becomes commercially available, Think of the changes it would cause,to Politicians,Lawyers,conmen, scam artists,liars, Romeos and Gold Diggers! why the Democratic Party would cease to exist overnight!

J.D.

Just saw on the Drudge report , a story that two nights ago when Mr Cain was giving his denial of all allegations, He was being monitored by a new computer software system that is used by over 70 law enforcement agencies around the country, that can detect through stress levels in the voice, whether or not an individual is telling the truth with an accuracy rate of 95%. The findings were, without a doubt Mr Cain was................TELLING THE TRUTH! Now I wonder if his accusers will submit to the same tests?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Oh. And question.

Why would they have to submit themselves if it monitors stress levels in the voice?

Couldn't those same people have just used the same system like they did with Cain?

--------

But thanks for giving us all yet another example of your desperate search for anything to "prove" what you already believe.

Wow. Just wow.

wtw, I thought the only difference was that Perry knew what Shampoo and Conditioner were.

Republicant

Good Question, Good Question , with the obvious answer being how do You know they aren't being monitored and are just being given enough rope till when they all come forward at their press conference, and then they can all be hung together?BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an Addendum: I really hope that technology becomes commercially available, Think of the changes it would cause,to Politicians,Lawyers,conmen, scam artists,liars, Romeos and Gold Diggers! why the Democratic Party would cease to exist overnight!

Of course, the GOP support would remain, as their base is so completely vested in the delusion they were fed, that nothing would convince them otherwise.

I mean, just look at what they believe now....not to mention the way J.D. is so dedicated to defending Cain...LOL!!!

J.D.

ood Question, Good Question , with the obvious answer being how do You know they aren't being monitored and are just being given enough rope till when they all come forward at their press conference, and then they can all be hung together?BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh. Is that it. (A conspriacy within a conspiracy...)

Wow. LOL!!!

Dumb, dee, dee, dumb, dumb, dumb...

Republicants

and the Democratic base would stay because.......?(You know the gig is up when machines and technology turn against You! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! Gotta Go, thanks for an entertaining day Republicants,(and please ,do yourself a favor and invest in a dictionary).

TXHorseman:

I haven't had much to laugh about lately but you post was priceless. They say humor helps people who are ill, get well faster. Keep up the good work and I will be in good health in no time! And if you really want to help, I want my hair to grow back in faster. Let me know if you get a late night show. I will be the president of your fan club!

wlee...

Fair point….she does look worn out doesn’t she?!!

MillerLiteman

Don't they already have jobs in the military? Maybe they shouldn't quit those jobs?

Sometimes they don't have a choice, there are some that retire after 20+ years, there are some that get medically retired, there's lots of reasons they have to "quit those jobs"

You mean worse than "Fool me once shame on me, Fool me twice uh, uh, won't get fooled again"?

Bev, way to start the day--twice. Ditto that last sentence.

Thanks Jody

Mr Perry said: "The third agency of government I would... I would do away with, the education, uh the... uh commerce... and, let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry. Oops."

"Oops? Oops? What do you mean oops? I know what I mean when I say oops..."

Rick walks warily down the street,
With the polls pulled way down low
Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet,
Right rhetoric ready to go
Are you ready, Are you ready for this
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat
Out of the doorway the gaffes rip
To the sound of the beat

Another one bites the dust...

Sorry, Perry should know he can't have those screw up moments and then go Oops!

Perry just can't keep stepping in it.

I'm so glad we have a President who does not embarrasses US around the world.

Um 57 states? Wrong date in a guest book ring a bell? Everyone makes mistakes and has brain fart moments, I haven't watched the debate yet as my husband and I were busy "interviewing" a boy who would like to date our daughter, but if this is the best y'all have then it must've been a good debate.

1SGFitzsWife4ID,

57 states and writing the wrong date are oopsies. Perry was trying to be bold in suggesting the elimination of three entire departments of the government. But he can't get his own policy goals right. You never see Obama get up there and go "we need to tax and uhhh... eat pancakes? No that's not right!". You never saw Bush say "we need to invade Whatchacallitstan! Shoot, you know, the one with the terrorists in it!"

PERRY LETS CONSERVATIVES DOWN

Rick, sad to say, it looks over to me. The $15M is not enough to overcome a perception. Granted W was not exactly Shakespeare either, but he could remember 3 departments of gov't.

Now, we are stuck with milquetoast Romney, who was "for it" before he was "against it".

Perhaps Newt will pick up steam. Perhaps Santorum will come alive. Calling all Republicans, we are still looking for the "wow factor" and have not seen it yet.

Beverly...

You almost had me going there until I realized it was sarcasm...

I'm so glad we have a President who does not embarrasses US around the world.

Agreed with Fitz, if this is the worst thing to come out of the debate, must have been a good debate. Everyone makes mistakes. How many of you are eloquent public speakers? Fact of the matter, Perry has been elected and re-elected governor of one of the largest states in the Union for a reason, his policy, not his public speaking. We all know the President is nothing more than a symbol, a figure head. The cabinet, advisers, and lobbiests run the white house. Presidents don't have any of their own answers, they say what they are told, so if a candidate flubs a few words in a debate I have full confidence his cabinet will take appropriate actions should he be elected. Same goes for any candidate really, no campaign promise ever comes true anyhow once they reach office, so who cares what they say in debate?

The pause was just the Almighty's Emergency Warning System Test kicking in to remind us of what we would get in a critical situation with the 'annointed' Rick Perry. Thank you Lord, thank you Jesus!

Quit worrying about minor mistakes, or should be start talking about Obama and comment on visiting 57 states when we only have 50.

Rick Perry may not be good at stupid debates but he runs Texas very well! He did not take a bailout plan from Obama saving our state billions of dollars. He has job for our Vets when they return home by securing our borders. The drugs from the Mexican Cartel on a average week are in the billions of dollars. That is not only keeping the drugs from Texas but all over our great country. He is not the best speaker but he is there during our fires here in Texas where over 1500 homes burnt to the ground in two weeks he was there helping getting fema here sooner than we expected saving our livestock by getting trailers in there to rescue animals and getting benefits together to help get fireman's trucks and equipment replaced. A lot of those firemen rescued people and their on homes burnt to the ground while saving others homes. He gets the Job done not as others do by going to Debates and just talking about doing things. Or going on vacation while Tornadoes ripped though many states in 2010.
Go ahead vote for the best debater we really need a speech every week on how we are going under or how we will get back on top.

cantakenomore,

something tells me YOU'D be the global embarassment,...you know, if you ever found your way out of the backwoods,...

Republicans SURELY have learned many lessons in tolerance over the recent couple of decades,...I just wish their tolerance of ignorance wasn't so happily EMBRACED!

I usually vote Republican, but I have to admit this last debate was awful. Perry needs to just exit stage left, as does Bachman, Santorum and Huntsman. Cain use to be the new bright penny, but his baggage is getting to be too heavy.

I really wish Clinton (Bill) could run again. I know he had a lot of baggage too, but his ability to understand issues as well as his savvy to work with both sides of the aisle is unmatched.

I really hate to vote while holding my nose again.......

Clara...

Funny...funny! You libbies are all the same...don't believe the left drivel and we're all backwoodsmen. It's ok though, the conservative sweep will continue in 2012 and it's going to be quite refreshing.

I don't know about debate melt down and I don't know about damage control.

Every time I see Perry the Wizard of Oz Scarecrow theme pops into my head. And While I'm Libertarian in politics, I'm a registered Republican for the time being.

I don't think you can have a 'brain freeze' when you don't have a brain.

And Life, I wish Hillary would run against BO and challenge him to a primary contest. This year I highly think it would be a land slide in her favor. But it isn't going to happen. Biggest problem here is that if given the choice of "none of the above" for a selection when it came to the general election, that would win out on both the Republican and Democrat side.

The republicans must be so embarrassed. I almost feel sorry for them.

Herman Cain can dish it out but he sure can't take it. . I don't know what Perry's on but I want some. Huntsman is the only one who half way makes sense and has extensive experience in China and they all but ignore him. Ron Paul's eyebrows are coming off, Michelle Bachman is too dumb to know she's married to a homosexual and recieving federal money to pray away gay, Santorum, err let's just say he spouts off all the GOP talking points. Romney doesn't care about you unless you are a rich Mormon.

The "fifty seven" states gaff is much easier to understand if you watch the video on SNOPES.

Sorry to take the meat away from the rabid dogs. They have so few talking points that stand up in comparison to the plethora of nonesense from the GOP debates it seems almost unfair to have them actually check what happened.

It's hard to complain about Romney. He's on both sides of all important issues. One day he will want to bomb Iran. The next day, he will send them a fruit basket.

I cannot believe the dumb asses here still wanting an obama presidency. I know there are a lot of idiots in America but did they all come on this site today, really? Any one of the republican candidates can do a better job with their hands tied behind their backs than the village idiot we have for potus now. Really people???????????

Does anyone other than me think Perry is eerily close to what you'd get if Reagan and Dubya had a child together? The bobbling head, the dazed confusion.........the low IQ? It's very odd.

Imatthebeach...

Congratulations! You get the award for the most stupid post of the day!

Really? Coming from you, cantakenomore, I'll take that as a compliment.

Too close to true, right? lol From the first time I saw Perry I thought that. Seems like at least a few people who saw my post agreed, so please keep your rude, teabag opinions to yourself.

And have a nice day.

It's ok beachboy...that's all you libbies have.

If Perry looks as if he's a product of Reagan and Dubya...then Barry looks like a product of an elephant and an ass. His ears are so big, if he could flap them, he could fly!

Boy, that wasn't hard, was it?

Liberals are so pathetically funny and predictable!

That's your idea of a joke?

I was simply commenting on what I think every time I see Perry and wondering if anyone else saw it the same way.

If you're trying to be funny, keep your day job. And I'll bet our president is better looking than you are.

Liberals are the joke...

No, the joke would be people who run around with teabags stapled to their hats and then get all offended when people call them teabaggers!! LOL

Just heard on Faux News, of all places, that your boy Mitt can't even pull 25% in the polls. So sad........

My boy?...no, beachbum...my "boy" is Herman Cain.

...and the left is afraid of Herman...very afraid. Takes away their race card.

Herman Cain 2012!

Pietro, well done. The only thing the GOP hasn't calculated is what happens if their obstructionism and the over-reaching at the state level results in a democratic House and democratics holding the Senate. The biggest shortfall of republicans has always been their inability to think long-term.

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio

Another Republican Presidential ‘debate’ has gone by and we still have the ‘field’ of potential nominees for the Republican ticket for the President of the United States.

This is a SORRY group.

The GOP is looking forward to 2016 where they can control the Presidency, the Senate and the House to enact their ultimate agenda, as we expect them to. This ‘dog and pony’ show for 2012 is insulting the intelligence of the American Electorate

Hi Pietro,

The GOP/ Tea baggers know they are sorry bunch. Even if they have their sights on 2016 they better do know they need a lot of rehab to gain traction.

How is the President going to advance his agenda if he is facing opposition from BOTH Chambers of Congress?? Right now, with a slim majority in the Senate, the President cannot get ANYTHING passed and has resorted to going on the road using the bully pulpit to plead his case.

What exactly is his agenda? Doesn't really matter because there is no money to pay for it. And doesn't really matter if Democrats control the house and senate either. They will raise taxes but because they will not cut spending the deficit will remain at record levels or even rise and eventually within the President's second term the credit crisis will cause untold damage to everybody.

BTW, If the Democrats do gain control of government how much do you think they'll raise the debt ceiling?

Pietro,

"So what is the REAL end game here?"

That is the million dollar question? What does the big money behind the GOP really want? They want power and influence to keep government out of their way.

On a state level, the religious right can be counted on to bring out the vote for marriage or "personhood" amendments, to make sure their extreme TP candidates are elected to the state legislatures. But the paradox is that on social issues they want government to be very active in peoples personal lives.

Voters have said with their votes on Tues. that overreaching will not work.

Rather silly question. They will raise the debt ceiling as often as needed just as it was done with Bush 43, Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, Nixon, Ford, and all the others. The quickest way to reduce the deficit and the debt is create jobs both private and public sector jobs. The question asked should really be what would best achieve economic growth through targeted government spending such as more infrastructure, research, education and investing in America to kick start the process. The long-term debt is a problem but the short-term fix is not to cut spending on everything--we watched that snowball roll into the states this year.

The question asked should really be what would best achieve economic growth through targeted government spending such as more infrastructure, research, education and investing in America to kick start the process. The long-term debt is a problem but the short-term fix is not to cut spending on everything--we watched that snowball roll into the states this year.

So what was Stimulus 1, and QE1 and 2 if not to "kick-start" the process. Roughly 1T in spending and 2 to 3 TRILLION of printed money. Didn't work so far, so what are you suggesting? More of the same only bigger?

And what is short-term in your view? Think we can run a 1T+ deficit for 2 or 3 years more? The problem is our creditors may not give us 3 years of open ended credit. Think interest rates on bonds are going to stay at 1% for the next 3 years?

Amazing you think this is a silly question just because you assume that the money will be there to borrow. If Italy goes down you can bet interest rates are going up. China has slower growth and the oil economies are not flush with cash, so who exactly are we going to borrow from?

Alan, NJ - this post is about why the Republicans are putting up such a weak field for the nomination, NOT what President Obama's agenda is. It is pretty obvious that you have read into this narrative what you want to and are tangentially expounding on what your critiques are.

Let's stay focused here.

It is VERY obvious that by putting up the human weather vane as the nominee that the GOP is NOT concerned about the Presidency in 2012. With all of the 'salami drama' of the Cain campaign, and the brain freeze of Perry, and the other assorted noise talking about absolutely nothing, I can see why you are distracted. Many people are. The point is that the GOP's end game is not going to be beneficial to you or your sensibilities and is NOT going to solve any of the problems that you raise.

What the GOP is counting on is the SHORT MEMORY the electorate has so that they can cut off Federal monies from the States. Remember how the GOPers are blocking EVERYTHING proposed that would be investment in OUR infrastructure? They know that investment would turn this economy around in less than 3 months.

LOL. Nonsense. And to support this I would quote the President, "Shovel-ready was not as shovel-ready as we expected." So why do you think that in 3 months Infrastructure Investment would turn around the economy? You think there are projects sitting on the shelves ready to go? What do you know that the President through experience does not. I'm all for infrastructure investment but the statement that it will turn the economy round in 3 months is ludicrous.

I can also see that you're very concerned about Mitt Romney. If he does get the nomination then his move to the center will be fairly easy as I am convinced he saying what is necessary to get past the crazies who make up the Republican primary.

So why do you think that in 3 months Infrastructure Investment would turn around the economy? You think there are projects sitting on the shelves ready to go? What do you know that the President through experience does not. I'm all for infrastructure investment but the statement that it will turn the economy round in 3 months is ludicrous.

Alan, that is your opinion and I have posted mine. What is really needed right now in this economy is a LARGE cash infusion that will be circulated. We have seen the effects of this with the Stimulus plan.

I can also see that you're very concerned about Mitt Romney. If he does get the nomination then his move to the center will be fairly easy as I am convinced he saying what is necessary to get past the crazies who make up the Republican primary.

Actually, Alan, I am NOT that concerned about Mitt 'the human weather vane' Romney because I am convinced that he the GOP's 'throwaway ' candidate for this election cycle - just like John McCain was the GOP 'throwaway' candidate for the last. Honestly, do you NOT think that Mitten's flip-flopping like wet fish does not infuriate and exasperate the GOP operatives that are handling him? They are giving Mittens his 15 minutes of fame and they are moving on.

From what I see- and have laid out in my post - it ain't gonna matter if Mittens is President or not. The goal is to control the political conversation with the House, the Senate and the Statehouses.

This is a SORRY group. There is not one of them that really deserves the honour of being a nominee...

I will just assume you left Ron Paul out of that group. If nothing else he is honest and wants to stick with the constitution. This man has more integrity in a single finger then most people have total.(its also rumored he has forgotten more about economics and the constitution than some people know)
If you want to argue about sticking to the constitution, GTFO of America, you dont deserve to be here.

I will just assume you left Ron Paul out of that group. If nothing else he is honest and wants to stick with the constitution. This man has more integrity in a single finger then most people have total.(its also rumored he has forgotten more about economics and the constitution than some people know)
If you want to argue about sticking to the constitution, GTFO of America, you dont deserve to be here.

Chris (numbers) - I reposted your comments to make sure that I highlight my contempt for YOU.

Ron Paul would do better running as an independent, and YES, I DID include him in my comments about being the Republican nominee.

As for the last part of your comment, about telling me to GTFO of America, let's set the record straight. You do not know me, and if you EVER said ANYTHING like what you have posted to my face, you would be needing some serious dental work.

I am more AMERICAN than you will ever be. I was born and raised in the Bronx in New York, and New Yorkers DON'T play the stupid game you are playing.

Ignorant idiots like you who draw STUPID conclusions because my name is different really highlights your true nature. So until you decide to grow a brain and find a clue, STOP typing before you hurt yourself.

I agree with you completely Pietro! This is not an accident that the republican presidential field is so weak. They are focusing on Congress and taking control there. Every time I see a post to vote for a new Representative or Senator, Democrat or Republican, I cringe. I consider myself open minded and well informed; however, I also believe that the republicans (with the help of the tea party and its organizers) have moved so far to the right that they scare the crap out of me. They are doing their very best to squeeze out the middle class and trample on the working poor. The hypocrisy about small government must be their own private joke, since I haven't heard one of them that doesn't want to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body, or in my own bedroom.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this little issue. If the states are supposed to take more responsibility for those little things in life like education, infrastructure, natural disaster cleanup, (to name a few) yet the federal government is cutting aid to the states, but the states are already up a financial creek; where does the money come from to pay for all of this? We already know the republican mantra of no tax increases. The only thing I can figure out is this is a way to keep the populace stupid enough with poor education to keep voting towards the right!

I believe it is time for those old time Republicans - you know, the ones who prided themselves on being more educated and in the upper echelons of society - to take a long hard look at where this new and "improved" version of their party is taking them - before it is too late and there is no turning back, after all the roads will be filled with too many potholes.

Pietro, an amazing subthread today. It would do us all a lot of good to study the "long game" of Conservatism that goes all the way back to the Powell Memo of 1971. http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

These folks have been playing for 40 years now to fundamentally change American society. They've built an enormous infrastructure with the express purpose of establishing an American aristocracy. This movement has accomplished so much in the last generation that it's a critical time. The American middle class will be saved or forever lost in the next few years. It's up to us.

JohnB,

Thanks for the link to the Powell Memo. UNBELIEVABLE!

You're welcome, Northstar. It's an amazing document, isn't it? Within is a virtual blueprint for most of today's Conservative agenda and even methods.

IR, you scored a direct hit.

New requirement for being President of these United States.

You have to be able to count to three.

Does this make you a Math-er?

@IR VA God knows none of candidates in the GOTP party could do their gazintas!!!

How many states does our current Idiot in Office think we have in the U.S.?

I know it has been puzzling for a lot of people but I think Mr. Twenty Three Brewzkies just helped explain the candidacy of Rick Perry.

Independent, you forgot they need to enunciate words correctly like Corpsman

Dennis, good point. I know time constraints impacts moderator followup questions but clearly, they should have made an exception.

I also noticed that all (except Huntsman) are willing to start a trade war with China. That would really help our economy - NOT.

Dennis -- The correct answers on the EU crisis would have put them at odds with their own rhetoric thus proving their hypocrisy on the issues involved. The ideologues will bankrupt us all. Open minds are open to all options and closed minds have no options. ; )

What is Obammy's plan to avoid this issue? I'm thinking he will spend another 4 Trillion and call it the end of the US as we know it. Sorry, I did not vote for Bush, nor did I vote for Obama. This endless spending continues with no end-game. The focus of the debt ceiling was valid, while everyone agreed it should have been raised, since then what spending has been cut?

I do hope they (either party) comes to their senses, we are not far behind the euro-zone in being so much in debt there is no way to recover.

drc numbers, that's "Obama" otherwise you sound just like most of the fools running for the GOP nomination.

Normally, one does not tie up to a sinking ship. All of Europe, with their failed Obamaish Socialism, is a sinking ship. Kind of like you progressive, liberalites: slow learners who keep hitting your heads with a hammer, and then wonder why you have a head ache.

The fact is dang -- 6 of the candidates last night supported the bailouts. And I suspect they will continue to support bailouts if only in the round about way called the IMF.

The correct answers on the EU crisis would have put them at odds with their own rhetoric thus proving their hypocrisy on the issues involved.

DCIA if you know the "correct" answer I suggest you contact the EU in Brussels. They seem at a bit of a loss, and I'm sure their probable answer, cut government and raise taxes, is not the "correct" one.

Alan -- No simple answers or solutions to complex problems. That would have been the correct answer. Or they could have critiqued the lack of cohesive monetary policies behind the euro.

Forethought in instituting the euro with binding policies that unite common sense rules to govern the 17 independent countries would have eliminated much of the mess they find themselves in. Instead they are scrambling to change treaties in the midst of chaos. Brilliant! Almost a decade late.

The whole Euro/debt crisis makes my head hurt whenever I try to understand it. I can see why no candidate would touch it----even if they or their advisors understand it and have a solution, it can't be reduced to a soundbite and what if any kind of follow up were asked that required thought beyond the talking points.

Lol, me too Steeler! My thoughts above are just that... my thoughts. It's easy for me to opine cause I'm not running for President. But I think the candidates should have at least addressed a few of the obvious problems over there. And I do believe that some on stage last night wouldn't mind if China and others such as the IMF prop up a few of those failing countries. I guarantee Wall Street is praying for a miracle about now as well.

Hey Steeler Fan- off topic but I'm sorry about your game Sunday =0( my mother-in-law is a HUGE Steeler fan so I pay attention, I picked y'all to win in the football pool I do every week, you have a tough game against the Bengals coming up (I can't believe I just said that, the Bengals really?!?!) but I'm sure y'all will prevail, good luck!

Right on DICA/Steeler. The EU issue is complex, but has the potential to drag us into the pit. At least Obama has gone on record saying that the healthy arm of the EU (France/Germany) need to step up to the plate to tackle the issue, rather than relying on the US to broker any deals. The US and China may need to step in, but the first steps must be taken by the EU.

Funny stuff up above. For MONTHS Conservatives told us that even Europe had learned the importance of austerity in a recession and whined that President Obama wasn't following down that road. Now that austerity in a recession has brought Europe to the brink of a double dip recession Conservatives claim it's because of their "socialism."

Consistency of thought and principle isn't the point of Conservatism. Conservatism is merely a collection of talking points designed to sell policies beneficial to the wealthy elites.

Dennis and Jody -- Great posts! The lack of understanding and depth on the some of these issues was telling and quite scary.

I chose not to watch the debate originally but my wife said I needed to see what happened to Perry. So I caught the rebroadcast at 10.

My impressions on the Perry flub is this will finish him. He can continue to run but since he has angered the base on one portion of his immigration stance, the money was the only thing keeping him afloat. Now that money will dry up from the establishment types. Contrary to his people's claims about Perry lacking style but not substance, I disagree. His substance is why I and many Americans disagree with him on nearly every issue. It is not because he is a poor debater why millions of people are giving pause to his campaign. That said, I must say watching him stammer, and look for clues from the others about his own plan was harsh. I shuddered. It was like watching the shy kid in high school stammering during speech class. I felt for him, it shows he is human but I still wouldn't want that man or his ideas and policies to represent me or my country to the world.

As this debate was about the economy not much to approve of with Rep. Paul. His answer about how students can pay for college without student loans was a classic tact of deflection. Merely used it as an opportunity to say government can do nothing wrong. Again he is too extreme. There is no way you can slash 1 Trillion in government jobs and spending one year and not face severe problems.

One other comment, I agree that the hostility and arrogance shown toward the moderators by the candidates was alarming. The candidates seemed to wonder, how dare that they ask me to give an answer and not a talking point.

All in all Romney won because he still sounds the most presidential and real. He has a way to speak that allows him to come off as compassionate and reasonable, however his policies are not. I now have no doubt that he will win the nomination, the GOP can try but they will not find ABR.

Hats off to Maria Baritoromo for not backing down to Cain and the blowhard condecension of Newt Gingrich. New respect for Baritoromo strong, intelligent...I better stop there before I get into trouble. Actually good job to everyone at CNBC, even Jim Cramer tried to call Cain out for digging to the 999 well too often.

Yellowdog -- Great summary. The arrogance and rudeness was astounding.

Kudos to the moderators. The real winners of the debate, in my humble opinion!

Jody---thank you for sharing your impressions of the debate---and thank you for watching it. I just could not bring myself to watch. It is disappointing that this group of candidates is the best that one of our two major political parties can offer.

Yellowdog. Terrific summary. I only made it through 15 minutes before deciding it wasn't worth my time. As I said in my comment, I always enjoyed watching both party's primary debates but not this year.

I, too, enjoyed the clip of Maria B not letting Gingrich bully her. In my view, Newt is a bombastic bully and like Cain his disdain for women was front and center.

Jody -- He is notorious for having a bad temper in addition to being condescending. He proved it last night.

Steeler Fan, I wasn't able to watch much of it, just switched back/forth; it was too painful for the long haul but tolerable in short segments. The FR live tweet was fun as always.

Don't Carry, so true, Newt's also mean and nasty.

PIETRO - Thank you for taking the time to write that GREAT post. Now if only everyone will listen.

Make sure to thank a Vetran this weekend.

For those on this board that served, I thank you.

And don't forget to vote for J R Martinez, from the contest Dancing with the Stars, the wounded warrior who has proven to all of us, the indominability of the human spirit.

(Don't laugh, it's true! The man is amazing)

This could be a once in a lifetime chance to vote for Da Noid, White Collar Auto and Amy, all on the same thread! A simple but heartfelt "thank you for your service" is always appreciated, but for anyone who would like to do more, please check out the opportunities to really give back to our veterans on the Joining Forces site:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/joiningforces

Cheers to our lovely First and Second Ladies for their often unheralded involvement in this great cause. And yes, Amy - J.R. is an incredibly inspirational role model for anyone who's going through a dark time. Whether he gets that goofy mirror ball trophy or not, he's already the ultimate winner in my book.

From the Halls of Montezuma...

Thanks to all our Veterans and Service People!

Well said, all! WCA gets my vote today, too--good job!! Happy Birthday US Marine Corps and a big thanks to all who currently serve or have served.

Thanks for the link, JoAnne...I'd also point folks in this direction given that today is the Marine Corps' birthday...

semperfifund.org

It's a charity to assist wounded Marines...I became introduced to them through a racing team that helps to sponsor the charity...

www.grand-am.com/teams/team.cfm?series=k&tid=1642

Since we're adding our thanks and links I would like to add one also, it's one of my personal favorites, it's called "A Cup of Joe for a Joe" for every $2.00 you donate you buy a service member serving in Iraq and Afghanistan a cup of coffee, for a lot of them it's just the little things that give them a piece of home (and an extra special thing, you usually get an email from the joe who got your coffee and you can become "pen pals" if you want!)

greenbeanscoffee.com/coj/

And to all who have served and are serving, thank you will never be enough, but we appreciate your service.

Thank you to all you "Devil Dogs" out there!

Hey, that's me! Thank you, Da Noid!

After reading the hate for the people on the right, i find it rather disingenuous your heart felt thanks to all Military Vets does that include the vets who sit on the right. Maybe this is a good time to sit and reflect before making your hateful comments. John McCain was a Vet and POW

You mean you actually believe he has a brain??

Da Noid

Far from a tax initiated by the Obama administration, the proposal to create an
assessment on tree growers to fund a research and promotion program through the
USDA was begun by the industry during the Bush administration.

...and the law that allows the Christmas tree growers to form such an organization was written and passed by Republicans in 1996.

Go ahead and look it up...it's HR 2854 from the 104th Congress...some of the sponsors are still serving in Washington...namely Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas, Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia and The Speaker of the House, Rep. John Boehner.

Looks to me, just like yesterday noid, it is actually the Libs that are falling all over themselves.

Most comments on that ridiculous thread were from the left, so I don't know where you get your initial premise.

Right or left yesterday, too many of the Christmas Tree "tax' posters simply did not understand the article and I'm not sure many actually read it completely. Beef, its what's for dinner; pork, the other white meat--slogans now known by all were created and funded by a "fee" paid by farmers when they sold their products. Beef, pork, milk and now the $.15 fee the tree association wants in order to collectively improve their product as well as market them. The Heritage Foundation, a GOP think tank, clearly wanted to paint this as a democratic and more specifically President Obama tax--what better way than to subtly claim it as an attack on Christmas.

Jody---you are so right-- they can imply that President Obama is against Christmas---of course because he is a secret Muslim. Kind of like a two-fer for them----another business killing tax plus anti-Christmas. Too bad both are wrong.

Wait until republicans figure out is was republicans who supported the xmas tree tax in congress...lmao

Rick -

You are in for a long wait. Republicans will never figure it out. If you show them proof, they will just deny it outright or claim some sort of conspiracy (ex: birthers).

x

OMG, did Cain really say that? I could almost excuse the harrassment charges if it were just joking remarks he made, but feeling up women is more like assault than harassment, in my book.

Is that the new standard?

Jeffrey Dahmer: "For every person I ate there were thousands I didn't eat!"

Jim Jones: "For every person I got to commit suicide there were thousands I didn't get to kill themselves!"

Jerry Sandusky: "For every child I raped there were thousands I didn't rape!"

KKK: "For every black we lynched there were thousands we didn't lynch!"

Hardly a convincing argument.

"KKK: "For every black we lynched there were thousands we didn't lynch!"

This reminds me of Hannity's unrelenting worrying about David Gregory or whoever used the term "grand Wizzard" the other day. I'm no expert on the Klan, but isn't it the Grand DRAGON, or IMPERIAL Wizzard? WTF is that whiner doing worrying about this, anyway?

For 6 days straight, he's howling about how innocent Cain is, without knowing the facts yet, while harping on the 'media' for doing the exact same thing concerning Cain's alleged guilt.

What a dick.

imperial poobah... But maybe that's from the flintsones... lol

I guess we are supposed to take comfort in the fact that Herman Cain does not sexually harass EVERY woman he meets. He should send Gov. Perry a thank you card for taking the spotlight off of that statement!

This just proves my point I made yesterday. Herman Cain's job (since he is a brother from another mother of the Koch Brothers) was to be the clown, the buffoon and bring levity and 'flavour' to the GOP nomination process. He was to make the show 'interesting', and make a few dollars selling his book about himself.

Everyone knows that Mitt 'the human weather vane' Romney is going to be the nominee.

But, Cain is leading the pack in the polls, and his ego would not allow him to be '2nd fiddle'. Now Hermie is SERIOUS about being the President of the United States, and he thinks that by edging out Mittens he is going to get the nomination and will become President.

Of course, the GOP establishment is freaking out (check out what Karl 'turdblossom' Rove has been saying lately). The GOP doesn't know what to do with him now, and WHEN he weathers this storm of accusations about 'hiding the salami', he will be the biggest pain in the azz the GOP has ever seen.

You heard it here first.

Titanic: "For every iceberg I hit, I missed hundreds!"

“without his teleprompter”

Like he did against Hillary and McCain in 2008

He is above Newt the Kook. Mr. Grinch's view of history is skewed. He rewrites it to suit him. And FYI, President Obama's numbers are a lot better than most of this field of fruit loops.

Dennis is right...I don't recall there being a teleprompter in the debates during the primaries or during the general election.

Damage, if Perry is going to preach smaller government to the extent that he tells you he's going to eliminate 3 whole departments from the administration I don't think it's asking too much that you be able to remember what those 3 departments are.

"telelprompter". Heh Heh....there it is.

What's it been- 4 years now?

Repubs and righties must not have much, eh?

DOB,

It is only 9:00 am and the teleprompter has checked in as"present". It going to be a long day.

Thanks Damage 123 for being the first....

Are you kidding me? It will be like the Nixon Kennedy debate. Newt will come accross as an angry ugly leg humping pitt bull and Obama will be smooth likeable and pleasent.

I would love to see an unscripted no time limit debate between Gingrich and Obama. Gingrich is definately intelligent, at times he has the ability to be reasonable and when not in a debate tries to look at both sides of an issue. Used to have some intelligent ideas in his acceptance of climate change, however he now denies climate change. Newt rightly said that Paul Ryan's budget was right wing social engineering, then later walked that back when he realized that wouldn't warm him up to the Tea Party. I wouldn't put it passed him to now renounce science and deny evolution if that is what the group he was speaking to wanted to hear.

The other big issue with him is his arrogance. Newt thinks he knows and has done everything. Again, I view him as the ultimate politician. He will say whatever the audience in front of him wants to hear.

That said, I would love to see an Obama Gingrich debate. Funny how he has ripped Obama on many issues both foreign and domestic but his plans seemed to be similar. His idea about Libya, he would have done a no fly zone, then wouldn't when Obama did. Would have done it faster and better than Obama. For me both were wrong, we shouldn't have gotten involved.

Concerning Afganistan I've heard Newt wax poetic about the sacrifices of our service men and women and why we should let others nation build and leave Afgan. Yet when asked in a debate format, he and others bark madly about Obama's withdrawl plans.

Despite what Obama critics say, the President is a highly intelligent, capable debater. In my opinion he is right on many issues. Would love to see the debate.

Thanks. Glad to be the first one to use the "teleprompter" angle.

As for Nixon/Kennedy. Please. People who listened on the radio said Nixon won. People who watched on TV were deliberately given scenes of Nixon wiping his brow and fidgeting during times when Kennedy was speaking and Nixon didn't think he was being shown. This was mainly due to Don Hewitt, producer of the debate being a Kennedy friend and fan. It was an early example of the liberal media doing what they could to get their boy elected. Nixon still won the election but JFK was declared the winner because of thousands of dead people voting in Illinois.

"It is only 9:00 am and the teleprompter has checked in as"present". It going to be a long day."

Kind of like that buttwipe Hannity- he's been stuck on Bill Ayres for the last 3 days at least. Not sure how that relates to Cain's troubles, but you know Sean....

. "It was an early example of the liberal media doing what they could to get their boy elected."

Yes. And it was the 'liberal media' that got Jesus crucified way back when.....

OMG, (passes the bloody marys) - it's gonna' be a bender when the teleprompter shows up on the First Thoughts thread.

Hallelujer --- Madea

Nixon still won the election but JFK was declared the winner because of thousands of dead people voting in Illinois.

Wow...just, wow!

Damage: I've read some delusional posts on this website, but yours takes the cake. I hope you never accept any position to judge anything whether it's a T-ball game or a dog show. Once you rendered a judgment, you'd be tarred and feathered at least.

You mean like the afternoon President Obama did NOT use a teleprompter at the GOP annual caucus meeting and sytematically dismantled every repub in the room--one by one. The media planned to cover the speech but stayed nonstop for nearly two hours to cover the event because it was so spectacular. Oh, yeah, Damage 123--keep going about the teleprompter bull. Newt Gingrich knows he will never get the chance to debate President Obama; Newt's smart enough to talk big when he knows it isn't gonna happen. If it did, my money would be on Obama to systematically dismantle Newt's shallow, negative and inconsistent chatter piece by piece just as he did and continues to do to republican legislators.

Has anyone heard obama without his array of teleprompters try & make a sentence? I agree, Perry stepped in some pretty deep doodoo last night & will probably pay dearly for it, but for a sitting president to think there are 57 states, unable to pronounce corps by saying corpse, etc., etc. why wasn't there any coverage of this? OR Why didn't these garner as much attention/concern?

FXSTC & Damage: I'll bet you two could beat Obama hands down in a debate, don't you??!!?? hahahaha I wonder why, though, you keep bringing up the teleprompter matter when both Bushes and Reagan used it? Why is that? Obama is, in fact, intellectually brilliant. He proved that to his mentors at Harvard, but, of course, being anti-intellectual and poorly educated, you two would not accept such a judgment. You are far and away more intelligent than any of that element. By the way, didja git ur deer?

TJefferson (#15.16)

First off, I don't pretend to be a debater. Neither Bush, nor Reagan relied so heavily on reading their script as does this POS we have now, at least they looked at the people they were speaking to on occasion. If you want to catch the eye of obama, you'd better be sitting directly behind a teleprompter. How would anyone of your level of intelligence, assuming you even reach a level, recognize anyone as being "intellectually brilliant"? Especially one who doesn't even know how many states there are in the US, etc. As for my education, have you actually seen my resume or school records? Not likely, because you might be surprised to see the level of education I've attained. Lastly, I don't hunt, but I'm not opposed to it. Somehow, that attempt at a slur "didja git ur deer?" doesn't sound very original....you must have heard it somewhere.

BTW, judgement is obviously not one of your better suits.

FXSTC,

Giving a speech to a teleprompter is hard. W got this deer in the headlights look and became stiff when he read from a teleprompter. Reagan was good at it, but he was a good speech giver. It's just a matter of style. W preferred index cards. I don't think anybody was berating him for being an old man still reading from index cards like grandpa used to. (But they were berating him for looking stiff and intellectually vacant while reading off of a teleprompter.)

Pragmatic,

Yours was a far more reasonable response to my comment. I was just trying to point out that Perry's blunder, though probably right up there with Howard Dean's hysterical screech, was far less significant than obama's list of blunders, yet there was & will be far more coverage concerning Perry. How can a sitting president & vice president* make such stupid mistakes & continue to get a huss from the media?

*If you recall, biden said that FDR spoke to the American citizens on TV WRT black Tuesday, back in '29 (if I recall), when FDR wasn't the president & there was no TV at that time.

Poll numbers and results vary depending upon whose poll you would like to base things on and how you would like to look at the poll. Is the glass half full, or half empty? This is where the media comes in, to make us believe a significance in numbers that isn't necessarily there.

"Neither Bush, nor Reagan relied so heavily on reading their script"

Do you seriously think that either Reagan or Bush had much of a hand in writing any of the speeches they read from teleprompters? I've heard an interview with the man who wrote "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall" for him.

Obama, on the other hand, writes most of the first drafts of his speeches, and has many comments on the back and forth with his speechwrites, i.e., he is fully involved in the product.

A teleprompter is a device that enables the speaker to make more eye contact with his audience rather than having to look down at notecards or paper on the podium (or in the case of Palin, what's written on the palm of her hand). And finally, it was the actor president Ronald Reagan who probably standardized the use of teleprompters.

Jon (#15.21)

Uh....er...what has your quote; "Neither Bush, nor Reagan relied so heavily on reading their script", got to do with your response; "Do you seriously think that either Reagan or Bush had much of a hand in writing any of the speeches....?"? BTW, could it be that Bush & Reagan were too busy running a country to take time out to write a speech?

Would that be the same Reagan and Bush who took more vacation than any other president? for example, "New Orleans flooding, I've still got 3 days left of my vacation" and "Al Queda planning to hijack airliners, it's August, my vacation month".

The reply is to show that not only did Reagan and Bush rely on a teleprompter more than Obama, but they did not have the intellect to even write their own speeches. Bush fumbling around for words at a press conference is the stuff of legend. Reagan relied on his grandfatherly smile and pithy comments like "There you go again". Cute, easy to memorize, and essentially meaningless.

The point is that Reagan and Bush could only read a script written by others, while Obama writes the script himself, as well as runs the country.

ROTFLMAO @ Jon (#15.23)

Sorry, but my sides hurt from laughing at your 2 bit opinions & numerous misconceptions. Next you'll be saying that Bush planned & had carried out the bombing of the WTC. Frankly I'm a tad curious where you came up with those childish & farce quotes of Bush, but not enough to ask, since you don't answer questions very well & are obviously mentally challenged left wing nut.

However...FDR DID appear on television. He opened the 1939 World's Fair live on TV in a demonstration by RCA. Just thought I'd clear that up a tad.

And the media is never going to give us probability on how a program might or might not work. At present, the media has backed itself into somewhat of a corner and after supporting the present administration to the exclusion of all other ideas...well, they have to try to make the best of it. Like the statement that unemployment benefits paid out last week was lesser than any week since April...just that statement, no explanation of what the numbers really mean. How many of those unemployed have taken seasonal and holiday work that will not continue long term, but is sufficient enough to preclude them receiving their unemployment, or the number of people who have (since the period stated in April) have exhausted their unemployment eligibility and therefore no longer factor into statistical representation. And then, how about all the folks that work in commission only type of sales jobs and wouldn't be eligible for unemployment benefits anyway.....And there are those who have also completely fallen off the grid because they are so frustrated and have given up.

I am a woman and I have little or no respect for Pelosi, so why should I fault a man for having a similar viewpoint. Once somebody aspires to political office and being in the public spotlight, they should stop considering themselves as men or women in terms of how they are responded to, they are representatives and should all receive equal attention and equal scrutiny for their conduct and statements. Most of the more liberal posters have no problems making really vile remarks about Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachman.....but heaven forbid that somebody be equally frank and brutal regarding one of your "sisters" Nancy Pelosi. The hypocracy is unbelievable.

Unfortunately, Nashville Fan, it is part of the dumbing down of America. Something that the GOP actively supports. I call it (and I did not coin the phrase) bumper sticker politics.

We are better than this. It just takes a little time and effort, and many of these GOP supporters are not willing to invest in that. They prefer to hear what they want to hear, and imagine that somehow, a simpleton like Perry, Romney, Cain or Palin (and pretty much the entire GOP crew) can wish away our problems with feelgood speeches.

It ain't happening, folks.

What's that doc? Cain's an "oreo?" Wow. Ya know, after the last week of liberals cheering on the personal destruction of a man just because he's Black (more specifically, a conservative black), I don't ever want to hear any of you people complaining about "racism" when it comes to B. Hussein Obama, ever again. An "oreo?" Really? Are you black libs on here going to put up with that? I bet if I called Obama a Jug-Eared Monkey you would have a problem, wouldn't you? Ever notice Obama really DOES look like Curious George? Seriously, he does.

Thank you phine, for informing us that you weren't the one that came up with the phrase "bumber sticker politics." I would have thought you surely did if you hadn't told us. You know, with you being a genius and all. Here's some of my favorite "bumper sticker politics"....

We Can Either Have Corporate Jets Or Feed Our Kids

Hope And Change

Bush Lied People Died

We Are The 99%

Yes We Can

Visualize World Peace

Fired Up And Ready To Go

You're right, phine. Politics sure has been dumbed down.

or Mission Accomplished!

Damage123 -

Your reply should have been to Doc's post, not Nashville's.

FYI, my newest bumper sticker is:

__________________________________________

| My political philosophy does not fit on a bumper stick|

|_________________________________________|

(Sorry, my Etch-a-Sketch isn't working too well this morning)

Nash: Have faith that we ARE better than this. Which is why Barack Obama will be re-elected next year.

Lack of depth! Hmmmmmmmm! Maybe someone should tell them that there are 57 or 58 states, then they'll be as smart as your guy.

Could your concerns possibly stem from the fact that the media has no desire for any of us to actually hear more than a sound byte, taken out of context, of what any candidate or politician is trying to explain to us. It is all about distracting us from the meat and potatoes of the situation with all these side journeys to appetizers and desserts. Hitler was a great public speaker....Winston Churchill, not so much. Which of the two had policies that you are more comfortable with? Margaret Thatcher was a pretty brilliant Prime Minister and a strong figure....but not "top model" material. Our media spends much more time telling us how somebody looked or sounded rather than what they actually said.

now that's funny

I would argue that Perry showed us last year he wasn't ready to be President,...you know when he was whipping his base into a frenzy about Texas seceding from the union?

But, hey, I tend to take these bozos at their WORDS,...

So do tell us how Obama is going to defend his pathetic record on the economy? Even Obama with all of his smooth talking will need BJ Clinton to take his place in the debates in order to have a prayer against what looks like a Romney win in 2012.

Tracy--President Obama will do what he has been doing--blaming the party of 'no.' You know, the party that refuses to pass the American Jobs Act that 70% of the populace favors but instead wants to continue to failed policy of tax breaks for the rich and non-sensical deregulation so the fat cats can do anything they want to the detriment of the rest of us. By the time his Republican opponents have finished slicing and dicing him, poor Mitt won't have a chance.

"Tracy--President Obama will do what he has been doing--blaming the party of 'no."

Congress had sent 15 job creating bills the the Senate and ALL of them are stuck there by the party of NO and it's the Democrats.

BTW I will bet you ANY sum of money that if that is all Obama has to offer, which is as you say, blaming others because his own party won't pass a budget (900+ days and counting) or multiple job creating bills that will spur economic growth then your are dilusional to think Obama will be around after 2012.

"By the time his Republican opponents have finished slicing and dicing him, poor Mitt won't have a chance."

A chance at beating Obama in the debates? Again if all Obama is going to do is blame the GOP for what his own party in doing to his BS agenda then Romney could send Perry into the debates and still win and all Perry has to do is stand there and smile the entire time.

Tracy, those jobs bills they sent to congress had tax cuts for the rich, attacks on womens reproductive rights and corporate welfare stuffed in them.

And you're OK with that?

Old Vet, know what your talking about before you open your MOUTH. The Republicans have sent Bills over to the Senate and Reid Will not Put them up for a VOTE.

i don't think you Liberals Know how our Government works, FIRST a Congressman Presents a Bill and it is voted on, If it passes than it is sent to the SENATE and they VOTE on it, Than it is sent tp the PRESIDENT and he either VETO'S it or PASSES it.

Now ,if it is a ABORTION BILL , A TAX HIKE BILL, A HOMOSEXUAL BILL, the DEMORATS are 100% for it.

The legislation that has died on the desk of Reid is something else that the media doesn't want to focus upon as it doesn't fit the one sided agenda. The Democrats are as much about sabotage and subterfuge as anyone. What happened to the promise of "transparency in government". Obamacare was a railroad job. Our illustrious representatives and Senators shut down their emails, phone lines, and generally cut themselves off from the public they supposedly represented to vote for the monstrosity and curry political favor....then come back to us and tell us why "they think" it is good for us....like that makes all the deceit go away. What is hidden in Obamacare is only a portion of the reason people are so violently opposed, why states are challenging it in court....it is the very way in which it came about. 2000 page document that nobody read and was instructed by Obama and his Czars how to vote.....sounds almost like a meeting at the UAW hall.

.......HUH????????????/

Too bad for the nutjobs and their fans, but probably the best thing for America. Hopefully, this will be the last time Romney thinks he is what America needs after he gets the big NO from American voters.

Mitt is it !! Romney in 2012 The rest need to get out and quit making fools of themselves.

I like my version better:

Mitt's the Sh!t!

Obama/Biden 2012

Hey Perry...... Looks pretty tough to steal Ron Pauls campaign fundamentals when it does not come from the heart huh?

If Newt could get me a $200,000 line of Credit at "Tiffany's"...I'd vote for him !

Mitt just announced he is changing his stance on same sex marriage. He is reportedly divorcing his wife and will marry Flip wilson Jr. He will reportedly change his legal name to Flip Romney. Herman Cain is thinking about taking his old name...Mitts.

And I was so much hoping to watch Obama clean Perry's clock in their first debate.

TO: Starderup who wrote:

"Too bad for the nutjobs and their fans, but probably the best thing for America. Hopefully, this will be the last time Romney thinks he is what America needs after he gets the big NO from American voters."

Personally I was hoping that Cain would get the Republican Nomination.

It would give me such a tickle watch the Republican reaction when, the day after the Republican Primary, Republicans realize that the 2 men running for POTUS are both black.

If that happens, may I recommend that all TV Crews set up in Mississippi for voter reaction.

Your blatant ignorance about Republicans is pathetic....even for a liberal.

Your really need to attempt to travel and gain some perspective on things you apparently know little about.

What tickles me about you in particular is your liberal agenda hiding your closet racism. I have come to the conclusion that white liberals such as yourself love to masquerade as someone who actually cares about minorities, but in fact have a MO of pretending you care by subscribing to a philosophy, i.e. liberalism, that sound goods but in fact is designed to deny upward social mobility to the poorest of Americans and keep them dependent on the state.