Weird...

I wonder why my first post calling for Americans to get out & VOTE was collapsed?

Well, maybe not, with all the right wingers sharing ways to suppress votes... lol

Pay attention America - they might be able to get away with it on a internet blog BUT they cannot STOP YOU from going to the POLLS! (yet)

As I posted later---they must be really desperate if they collapse a "get out and vote" post. I guess it beats having to defend Herman Cain, union-bashing in Ohio and the nonsense in Misssissippi.

Fiesty - Calling any group a terrorist will get you collapsed. It's always funny to watch a person who like to accuse the right of fear mongering do a little of their own. I suppose its just the dread of the inevitable. Obama will be a one term president.

Really Skup? The "teabaggers" are that sensitive? How very sad for them!

Election Day 2011…

For all of you, who live in States where elections are being held today, get out & VOTE like you’re life depends on it!

If the tea party terrorists continue with their way – it very well may!

Well said!!!

I would guess that you have very few people that agree with you. You think?

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED - If your argument is reduced to name calling and fear mongering you've already lost.

Feisty, your post was collapsed because you couldn't just leave it at "Go out and Vote", which I agree with heartily. It is not only our privilege, it is our job as good citizens to take part in this great and storied experiment in democracy.

You went further, and had to inject your political views that some find odious. Still, this is your voice and you deserve to be heard.

However, you can never stop there, can you? You have to prove your moral, intellectual, and political superiority by peremptorily bashing your political opponents and adding incendiary invective to every single post. Are you simply compelled to invite combat and discord because that's the way you're wired, or is this simply intellectual exercise for a bored mind?

Sad, really. You obviously have a sharp mind and wit. I'll bet you're a riot at a cocktail party when you're not going on endlessly about politics. And yet instead of simply trying to educate, converse with, and convince your adversaries you choose to take the easy path of the internet bully, then play the victim and cry foul when your comments are collapsed. And in a perverse way, you seem to take glee in that.

I get the definite feeling you don't feel validated unless you can denigrate others. You're no better than Ann Coulter. You just drive on the other side of the road. Did it ever occur to you that maybe somewhere in the middle we might get along?

No, I didn't think so. It's a lot more fun to be obstreperous and contrary, isn't it?

I agree with one thing, however. Godspeed to Smokin' Joe. I miss the great boxing of the 70's.

Feisty's motto... "You obviously don't know who I think I am"

The Tea Party backers are mostly middle aged and retired people that have worked to provide for there families there entire lives. They have a good sense of what is good for the country from there life experiences. All there rallies and meetings have been peaceful and positive. To call them terrorist is regrettable.

You're the one who pondered why people collapse your posts. I simply supplied reasoning.

And no, generally I don't like what you post, but your diatribes are so ubiquitous they're hard to avoid.

Further, I'm not a psychiatrist, and my inquiries weren't an act. I am just an engineer and business owner, if it's germane. I simply wondered out loud how anyone can be so compulsively driven to invite conflict at every turn.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. And if I've offended you by questioning your absolute power over something as inconsequential as the comment section of an internet site, then I apologize.

I'd love to elucidate, but I need to go back to work actually doing something to contribute to the GDP rather than continue to take part in a pointless argument with someone who has nothing better to do.

Really, Mr Tom?

Perhaps you could find the time to read on....take in what the fringe right wing posts, the virulent insults toward Feisty or anyone that disagrees with them, and come back here and tell me why, based on YOUR criteria, they were not collapsed

Or is your outrage purely one sided?

Or is your outrage purely one sided?

But of course NDD... lol

BTW - from the looks of things, you & I are driving the collapse cowards CRAZY! ;o)

Collapsing posts is as lame as it gets, this is a political blog so everyone who posts is free to state their political views that's the damn point. If you want to stick your head in the sand with regard to others opinions that is one thing, but don't try to stick everybody else's head in the sand as well.

Obama's approval rating is not about people disliking his job performance. It's about people who want him to fight harder and are disappointed that he isn't nastier like the Repubs/TP's. In general, this country wants him to succeed but are totally sick and tired of the opposition and their filthy tactics.

Really, newday? I wish you could see the hypocrisy of your position. You virulently attack the right calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a "tea bagger", "tea party terrorists", etc.. and then complain when the right attacks on your position. You are being collapsed because your argument amounts to name calling.

Cain is the perfect puppet for his Koch brothers from another mother, because they would like to slide their hands up America's skirt.

not!

"calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a "teabagger". No, skup, I am calling the "teabaggers" that. Why would I not use the name that they chose for themselves? It is a courtesy, after all.

Feisty, you are right. They simply can't take feedback.

Forrest--I agree the collapsing is lame but its no different than the ignore button that John A and B and Fiesty use to avoid having any intellectual discussion with people who dont agree with their coffee house diatribes. They would prefer a conversation with like minded folks who pat them on the back when done rather than having any of their views challenged.

Pay attention America:

Ann Curry interview with Mr. Clinton this morning on the Today Show cited Mr. Obama's approval rating at 58%. However, the most recent poll shows his approval rating at 47%:

US President Barack Obama's approval rating climbed to 47 per cent in a new poll released on Wednesday.....

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/obamas-approval-rating-rises-20111102-1mvxi.html

Sheeesh, and no one is calling out Mrs. Curry on this one. This is just like Mrs. Obama's speech in Providence R.I. saying her husband's grandmother was discriminated against by a bank in Hawaii, which was a complete fabrication.

Guess if the Liberals keep saying something which is un-true, the Liberal masses will eat it up and THINK it is the truth.

Welcome to the Liberal fantasy land.

Personally I have never sought to collaspe a post, I don't even know how you do that, I have never put anyone on ignore, however I as everyone else is free to make the decision of who and when I choose to engage in a more in depth conversation.

How does a post get collasped, how does that work?

NDD,

At the risk of being accused of reneging on my promise to leave the discussion, I had a short break in which to respond, and of course I was insatiably curious despite my desire not to be.

Agreed, the hard right posts are just as full of vitriol as Feisty's. And I see them collapsed all the time as well. As they should be. We don't need any more of that kind of noise impeding our progress toward a solvent, proud, and free America.

No, I don't think my outrage is one-sided, and frankly I'm not really outraged at all. I simply responded to a query, though I see in hindsight it was meant only rhetorically. Feisty doesn't seem to be interested in input, only output. As far as I can determine, she has just as much a tin ear to opposing views as her right-wing counterparts. In engineering, that's something we call an "open loop control system", and it is rarely efficient, effective, or desirable.

I admit I singled Feisty out, though in my defense one can hardly deny that she is one of the most voluminous and antagonistic of posters, wrathful, vengeful, and generally impolite and unpleasant to any who don't share her views. So I do tend to see her as the poster child for what is wrong with the un-civil discourse that seems to be so pervasive in our nation these days.

Pitted against her is a ragtag gaggle of far-right zealots, of whom I do not count myself one, and who I find equally distasteful. I don't find either particularly persuasive or engaging. You, on the other hand, asked me to explain myself politely, and I believe your question to be honest and genuine. So I have given you the best answer I can. I did pause to honestly consider whether one side or the other is using lower tactics and I honestly believe both she and her adversaries are equally culpable for the lack of true dialogue. If my vision is skewed off-center, that, I think, is forgivable; we are all predisposed to certain opinions and views based on the anecdotal data of which all our lives are made. To some degree, we're all our parents, and our perspective is shaped by the situation and environment in which we are formed.

So, my tedious blather aside, I suppose what I am saying is this; it is no more or less distasteful whether Feisty or her attackers are using the juvenile jabs. But it is hardly constructive, and I reckon that the sum of two fighting children is rarely an adult. And it is possible to advocate and promote one's ideas and ideals without defecating on all others.

But it is hardly surprising that this is what we resort to, given the poor example set by our elected officials on both sides of the aisle. I long for the days of Tip & Ronnie, who'd fight and posture and bluster in front of the cameras, then go quietly behind closed doors to try to find a workable solution.

I should not have singled Feisty out. However, she did invite rebuttal with her inquiry, and she does paint a rather large bullseye on her forehead. And she seems to go looking for a scrap right out of the box. Reference the first post to this article as evidence. Hence, I suppose, the apt and duly-earned moniker.

Frankly, I don't know what's made us all so sour and dour. We are not each others' enemies, yet we squabble over trifles while the house burns down.

Da Noid: well worth repeating...

"The world is run by those who show up." - Unknown

Nice post Mr. Tom, IMO some of the vitriol stems from the very top of the republican leadership who openly and proudly stated right fro the git go that their top priority was to "make sure Obama was a term president", " we will make this his Waterloo" and other similar comments. Does that sound like a party that wants to bargain in good faith with a wartime president and a nation in dire straits. So some of this comes fro the top down. People in high office lead by their example, intentionaly or not, people take a cue from how they handle themselves.

I try not to personally insult other posters no matter how much I disagree with them, and I continue to have a back and forth with many posters who I am pretty sure think I am a schmuck. I can be brutal on political figures and their ideologies, but I try not to make it personal with another poster, I fail sometimes, and I try to apologize when I realize I have. I believe the anonymity of a blog makes it easier to get carried away and forget our manners, face to face I think we would be more polite, or maybe we would just start slapping the crap out of each other, who knows anymore.

Most disturbing is that the more liberal comments resist and even fight against any attempt to categorize them. However, those same liberal thinkers believe that anyone having a more conservative view is automatically wealthier than God, a religious nut job, trying to cheat and harm everyone around them for personal gain, stupid, and the list just goes on and on....I have been watching carefully for several days now, and counting the number of more conservative posts versus the more liberal viewpoints, and the liberals in these threads comprise a majority of about 4-1. However, the tone of the liberal posts would lead you to believe that they were the last liberal voice crying out in the wilderness and being oppressed and repressed... And just as another footnote....I have done some actual calculations, and the liberal posts are more likely to contain language that is considered to be offensive or objectionable in polite conversation by about 40%. So perhaps, before lashing out, the folks with a liberal view (not expecting them to change their view in any way) should merely take a moment to look at how they are presenting their opinions.

Mr. Tom:

That was as gracious a response as I have seen on FR recently. My question was sincerely meant. I do get a bit tired of the faux outrage from the other side about Feisty's posts, when it seems to me that far worse is said about her. I consider Feisty a friend. Therefore, I do take exception on her behalf. Does she go too far sometimes? I suppose so, she and I have chatted about that. Have I gone too far sometimes? Be the first one to call myself guilty. I do try to not attack like that unless I have been attacked. Once that happens, I can become a bit cynical.

I agree with you it was better when the two opposing sides sit down, maybe have a bump together and work their differences out peacefully and with respect. I don't know why that is considered capitulating to the enemy now, but it does this country no good.

If you pop in on Fridays, you will find that the Week Ahead thread is basically that. Both sides letting their hair down and having a little bit of fun. I hope you will join us there.

So, I do owe you an apology. I see that you meant no harm in terms of calling out one side over the other.

Perhaps we will meet here again.

Well you can put me in your spreadsheet now Sue because I will tell you to get serious, first of all this is a liberal blog site by and large so of course there will be a larger number of liberal opinions and I have been called a libtard, retard, union thug, lazy, freeloader, liberal scum, Socialist, Marxist, Communist, , and all manner of things by people who obviously do not have a clue as to the definition of the words they use to try and insult me with. So if the conservatives represent only 25% of the posts they must do much more than their fair share of the insulting, crunch those numbers while you are at it, and let us know what you come up with.

newdawn - Are you seriously going to try to tell me that the term "teabagger" isn't meant to be derogatory?

Did you not read my post? I use the name they picked for themselves. That is what courteous people do. I cannot help the interpretation you put to it, nor am I particularly interested.

Good one, Forrest!

Tom and Sue, those were two of the best posts in a long time. I have been saying the same thing for awhile and I wish you good luck. Many months ago, I also gave them the 4-1 and evidence on the nasty language and attacks and all it did was invite further attacks. At first I was told I wasnt tough enough for this board and then came the more personal attacks. Finally, when you throw out the hypocrisy card, you will get put on ignore. Fiesty I suspect is getting paid to keep things on edge which is too bad. What is truly missing is real intellectual debate without the personal attacks. The problem is that most of the progressives on here really would prefer that it was just a coffee house chat with like minded folks or a blog that allowed them to cut and paste and preach to a supposed audience that they feel are actually open to changing their minds. So they dont really want to be challenged or have a give and take its just output as Tom as indicated. Go through all the blogs for the last month and check out how many times Fiesty actually debated and you would find it to be zero. Try to find anything from John A or B or david Walker, Navy etc that isnt cut and paste political rhetoric without a back and forth of intellectual spirited discussion. Then you have the psuedo intellectual crowd that includes John A and Anna Molly that condescendingly tells you how incredibly intelligent and smart they are and dont you dare challenge their knowledge as anything but superior than the dribble that an opposing challenger throws back. If you do, they will pick out one statement that supports that you couldnt be as smart as them and ignore the rest and claim to the crowd see how smart i am audience. There are some genuine good people like Forrest, DCIA, Amy, Jody, Clara that might get annoyed with the posters but we can actually have civil conversations without some silly Teabagging name calling. Hope you can find them and make the board a better place. What would be interesting to try is see if we can have a day in which posters are not allowed to use a current or potential presidential candidates name in a post and we were limited to discussing issues rather than try to make political statements in the actual posts. Liberals are fearful of ever saying anything contrary to their love of all things Obama and conservatives are afraid of saying anything that hurts the chance to get someone elected but Obama. So too many times, the best issues are never discussed.

Frankly, I don't know what's made us all so sour and dour.

I can field this one, and though it's going to sound trite, trust me - we have a full moon coming up shortly, and a meteor is passing between the Earth and the moon as well. I know a lot of people think that's a lot of hooey, but it does make people go a little off center. We had a battle royal at my job yesterday between an employee and a supervisor - all she did was ask him to have a seat so she could talk to him about his job and he went off on her. (Okay, he has some, shall we say, mental issues, so he's a ticking time bomb on a good day...)

And anyone who doesn't believe me, visit your DMV during the next full moon and check out the fights going on. No one likes going there but during a full moon period it seems ten times worse.

newday - The name was not chosen by anyone in the Tea Party. It was a derogatory insult coined by the left. The fact that you try to hide behind ignorance speaks volumes about your character.

NDD, FRR, spin, twist, twist, spin

For all of you, who live in States where elections are being held today, get out & VOTE like you’re life depends on it!

Feisty - I did. Straight Republican ticket...

Poor Skup. So hard to be so wrong, isn't it?

Have someone read to you: Who First Used the Term "teabagger". Real Clear Politics, Jan. 21, 2010.

One cannot give the name Tea Party, which belongs to heroes to the "teabaggers". The Tea Party participants were FIGHTING a corporate monopoly, which for some reason is not known by the "teabaggers". The "teabaggers" EMBRACE are owned, funded and manipulated by their Corporate owners. Big difference, they cannot be the same.

Bore ring...

hey newdog, when are you going to come up with an origonal thought. You've been called carrot top's lapdog.... must be true!

Hey, poor Bobbin:

When are you going to learn to spell and write a grammatically correct sentence? Or is that task well above your limited IQ?

Feisty Red...

"However, you can never stop there, can you? You have to prove your moral, intellectual, and political superiority by peremptorily bashing your political opponents and adding incendiary invective to every single post. Are you simply compelled to invite combat and discord because that's the way you're wired, or is this simply intellectual exercise for a bored mind?"

could have not been stated more accurately. ;o)

Have a great day.

Here's the thing...

It will never get better until someone decides to stop acting like a child, and stops justifying their incendiary and insulting behavior based on others.

You want a better world? Act like it. That is how it starts.

Nasty people are unhappy people. They feign amusement, but at their core, they are just nasty unhappy people.

So red, if you want a better life, start sounding like you do, because your vitriol just makes you sound sad. And yes, I do avoid reading what you post, but sometimes I expand a collapsed post to see what you have to say.

Paul F:

I take exception to your pseudo-psychoanalysis of incendiary online behavior. I'm often nasty, vitriolic and very often genuinely amused. And guess what? I have a great life and am overall a happy person. The people who know me tend to like me a lot and take the negative things I say with a grain of salt. That's because they always know where they stand with me. I tell no lies and pull no punches. I'm broke, unemployed, and take not one single penny from the government. I have never collected unemployment and never intend to do so. I get by on my skills as a trademan, engineer and problem solver (thank goodness for contract employment!).

I have the maturity and intelligence to understand implicitly that the anonymity of the internet makes it possible for one to express opinions in a way and form they most likely would not given a face-to-face interaction. I also have the intelligence to understand that these bits of textual assault are nothing more than freedom of speech in it's truest form - one is less likely to be completely forthright in their opinions when faced with the possibility of getting their face smashed into a wall.

The more that people react to the vitriol and condemn it, the more prevalent it will become. This realm is an essentially lawless one and we don't like being told what to do (well, most of us). You can have a CoH and ToS all you like. It all comes down to choice in the end. If you're too sensitive to the behavior of others on the 'net, then choose to avoid it. No one is forcing anyone to click or read anything.

Newsvine is one of the tamest forums of which I've ever been a member. It's well policed and most of the b.s. is regulated. If I think that you're a pompous, self-righteous a-hole (which I don't), I should be able to say that freely without fear of being banned or suspended. But the fact is that newsvine is like visiting someone's house - you have to follow the rules while there.

Does that make the nastiness right? Of course not. We should ALL be civil with one another. But we should always remember that this world has forever been full of nasty people with terrifying opinions. The Information Age has allowed more of those people a voice than ever in history. While I agree that we're responsible for starting the movement to be nicer to one another, calling attention to it only steels the resolve of those you're condemning in the first place, in my opinion.

I would never collapse a post or report or ignore someone here. My opinions may be stupid, ignorant and negative, but that in no way means I have to candy-coat it and wrap it in a pretty bow or shouldn't have the right to express it.

Sticks and stones, my friend. Stick and stones.

I apologize for the loquacious diatribe. I feel kind of strongly about this subject.

Wouldn't be nice if you could collapse the shows on tv and radio whose only purpose is to derail someones campaign or presidency and ruin peoples reputation any way they can? But then what would the rightwingers watch?

to Jmwhite: I think everyone feels strongly about stuff. However, I used to be a republican voter and I used to be antiObama and a lot of the reason was because of the senseless completely biased emails which by the way are still circulating and have been since BO first ran for the senate in Illinois. I know full well what they say and full well how many are totally and unequivocally false. As soon as people learned, by people I mean those people who used to say they had values and were right about everything, that I supported (still support) Obama I found out how many values these people didn't have and how wrong they are about a lot of things. Because now I was brainwashed and they thought they had a right to call me as many names as they call our president. I guess those who especially say they are Christians forgot to read the Bible and what it says about our government, paying taxes and treating our leaders with courtesy and respect.ie Romans 13. And moreover when presented with facts they still argue and their best argument is well how do you know who is telling the truth. Because of course Fox presents both sides of the story and you can choose which one you want to. I guess that is the way brainwashing really occurs. When people are told the truth and they just simply refuse to consider it because they have already been provided with the real truth. However, I don't think that is any excuse at all. We only have one truth and if it is hard to figure out what it is it is their civic and moral duty to do so. And then who they vote for will be based on truth not creative propaganda by some rich folks who only apparently has time on their hands and use it to create problems for America. If you trace the propaganda back to its beginning you will probably find smirking rich people who think the whole thing is funny!

Double yes, Jody. The Republicans do not care as long as Cain pays homage to the owners of that Party.

Jody, Iowa: The Cain Factor. Listening to Rachel Maddow describe . . .

You get that far, and you know it's just another MSNBC hack doing a hit piece on a Republican. No credibility.

We know you Libs hate Cain. How can a self made businessman that has many successful careers be the leader of the free world? He certainly is qualified for the jobs he aspires to, and that just rankles you Libs to no end. So you continue with these petty arguments why he isn't. It's a real pathetic visual to watch.

Cain, qualified for the Presidency? On what basis? That he ran a pizza stand? Sorry, poor JoAnna. You do need to know something about the world...like who has nuclear capability and who doesn't.

And there is that whole harassment issue....

Jody - nice job hitting Sniffy's nerve! lmao

I am so enjoying watching conservative women defend sexual harassment!

It speaks volumes to their character or LACK there of!

Then there's that Ubecki - becki-becki-stan thingy!

"We know you Libs hate Cain."

Wrong, Smiff. I bet a hell of a bunch of us would LOVE to see him go up against Obama. All the DNC ads would have to point out is, "Becki-Becki-Becki-Stan-Stan" and show that table of which income groups would pay X-dollars in increased/decreased tax burdens, and it would be all over.

"....which income groups would pay X-dollars in increased/decreased tax burdens..."

I left off 'under 9-9-9'. sorry.

With you on that DBO!

Yep, Feisty, hit a big Smiff nerve today. Made my day. DBO, so true.

P.S. Smiff, liberals do not hate Cain, they just wonder how it is republicans think he is qualified for the reasons I listed and the many I did not. Personally, I liked Herman Cain--at first, until the lack of knowledge got in the way. The fact that he ran a successful ho-hum pizza business is not the only factor to consider.

But you are OK with half of all American citizens paying no federal taxes? Because that is fair in your minds, is that right?

Tell you what, if you pay nothing in federal taxes you should not be allowed to vote. Gotta have skin in the game. Corporations require that you own one share to get invited to the shareholders meeting and you are entitled to speak. In this country we have half of us with no shares but all they want to do is control the "company."

Is it a radical idea to have ownership in this country? Seems like it. Personally I pay for my shares every year in a major tax burden. How many more shares do I have to own to be heard too? How do you like that hyperbole, Fisty?

"How can a self made businessman that has many successful careers be the leader of the free world?"

There are tens of thousands of successful businessmen (and hello - women!) in the country who have had many successful careers. If I'm going to vote for one of them for leader of the free world, though, I want them to, well, actually KNOW something about the free world. And the not-so-free, too.

Dont forget Herman "grabby ass" Cains insightful analysis of what may be the beginning of WWIII

O’Reilly responded, “So
you’re going to put warships in the Gulf, because they’ll attack them, you
know?”

“That would be perfectly
alright, because I believe that we have superior capability,” Cain
asserted.

Operative phrase to me being THAT WOULD BE PERFECTLY ALRIGHT

Tell you what, if you pay nothing in federal taxes you should not be allowed to vote.

You get the award for the most ridiculous comment of the morning!

Why stop there?

How about ONLY allowing land owners the right to vote!

Voter suppression at it's finest!

Cain's appeal to the American people is his work ethic and business back ground. One can deduce that Cain is popular because Obama is so unpopular with real working Americans. Granted the poverty lobby is convinced Obama's "wealth redistribution" promise is going to mean another entitlement is coming for them. People who live like that have no care where that money comes from. I think alot of Americans would like to see a better role model uin the White House than what we have now. The OWS crowd is a prime example of what can go wrong when you lead people to believe it's someone elses fault for your lot in life. Wall Street didnt guarantee Jr's $100k student loan that was the government.

Good Morning Jody, great post and in addition, Mr Cain has even bigger things to worry about in that his campaign is being investigated for possible election fraud as reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

A not for profit "Prosperity USA" founded by the Koch Bros and managed by his campaign manager, Mark Block, may have improperly provided funds to the start up of the Cain presidential campaign which, of course, is against a Federal law. The law prohibits tax exempt organizations from being involved in any political activity. So as they say...stay tuned.

This story is getting lost in the sleazy aspects of sexual harassment allegations and has even more sticking power once the IRS and the Federal Election Commission start their investigations.

Mark Block has a history in Wisconsin of being less than honorable in his involvement in politics, at one time was barred for three years and fined $15K for mishandling a State Supreme Court election campaign.

I dont think Cain should get the nomination but its hard to use his lack of qualifications against him dont you think? How does his lack of qualifications compare to Obama's clear lack of qualifications to be any different? At least Cain has experience in the real world while Obama toiled in academia, community organizing (how that relates to experience to be president is beyond me), state legislator voting present so he could never be criticized for taking an actual position, one term senator spending the whole time campaigning to be president and again never taking an actual position. So which of these jobs provided Obama the necessary experience to be president?

Two comments---I wonder if the conservatives who are defending Cain are really defending themselves for falling in love with him without fully getting to know him. Kind of like what they did with Sarah Palin.

To Rational AmeriCan----the people who aren't paying federal income taxes (although they pay other taxes like gasoline taxes, sales taxes, state & local income & property taxes, etc) are doing so because we as a society----Democrats and Republicans----enacted laws that said there is a certain threshold of income that is required simply to exist in our society and cover basic needs. We have chosen through our tax laws to tax only income in excess of that minimum and sadly these people don't meet that level. I'll bet they wish they did. And the only "skin in the game" you have to have to vote is to be a citizen and register. Your side is even trying to limit that and your comment tells us why.

Rational American's comments prove that only the screen name has the ability to be rational and even that fails the smell test. Does your idea of those who don't pay taxes not being allowed to vote apply to the large number of wealthy people who did not pay any taxes either? I mean, what's good for the goose. Others have already pointed out the ridiculousness of your comment. As usual, it never occurs to teapublicans because their ability to think for themselves has been usurped by what they hear preached to them--they choose to ignore that the 47% who pay no federal income taxes are living at or below the poverty line (it's their fault, don't ya know) and they ignore that those same people pay state income taxes, local, gasoline, sales taxes as well as payroll taxes.

I think we need to start awarding 'the dumbest statement of the day' ...I nominate JAS1 for today.

We would love for conservatives to nominate Herman Cain, but I keep asking myself why, the GOP are really not that stupid, but they are. How could any party even think of nominating this person who is so unaware of the basics in domestic and foreign policies. It's laughable we hate him....bring him on.

Kirk, if you can't see the difference between Cain's obvious lack of knowledge and President Obama's intelligence, knowlege and work-world as well as political experience, then you and your party deserve having Cain be the nominee.

So, Steve H, hope the name calling made you feel better--might have read your comment except your first line told me not to bother.

Yep, Jody, apart from Stevie's jealousy of Feisty, he has nothing.

Jody:

I have reached what is known in the math world as "The Palin Point". This is a mathematical construct, which falls within Herman Cain's universe of experience. "The Palin Point" shares several similarities with Herman Cain's brilliant mathematical solution - "The 9-9-9 Theorem". Similarity 1: It has absolutely no relation to reality. Similarity 2: We just made them up on the spur of the moment.

In any case, The Palin Point is reached when a person's candidacy is no longer tangential to reality. That person dissolves into unreality. Herman Cain has moved beyond The Palin Point and no longer exists in the known universe.

In his memory, I propose not simply a moment of silence, but that we should never speak of him again. NEVER.

I'm surprised Herman Cain even got this far.

Makes me wonder what it would be like if Donald Trump had entered the race, as some political websites predicted...

SteveH, I think your post is dead on. The liberals have been encouraging way too many people to get in the wagon while the real hard working Americans pull it. They have woken up and the 2010 election proves that. We need a better leader in the White House and he doesnt have to come from the left or the right. Common sense shouldnt be ignored when we vote. Right now the best thing for our political system is to remain in grid lock until a better leader arrives in 2012....

David Walker, I believe you're right, it's The Palin Point.

I see all the libtards and the brain dead are out today and want to know what makes Cain (or any of the opposition) qualified for the job. Well take a look in the white house. Anyone that has held any kind of a job is more qualified than what we have now. Michell had a no show big paying job and her subordinate Mr. Obama has never had one.

Jody, I dont support Cain for a variety of reasons mainly with his lack of political experience (similar to my view of Obama) and disagreement with him on a few political positions but I certainly wouldnt critique Cain based on intelligence, knowledge or world work in comparison to Obama. I am a big Clinton fan and wish Obama would take a cue from him. Obama has showed a complete lack of financial knowledge, experience and acumen so I disagree that Obama is the democratic savior.

Kirk, Obama does not know how to compromise or work with the other party. To him the republicans are the enemy. Clinton had a good speaker of the house that he could work with. We need a leader that will look out for the best interests of all Americans, not a divider like we have now that only caters to his base.

So to Fisty and her minions,

Please define at what point it is not ok for people to pay federal income taxes. All it takes is $1. But you folks always take the bait that those poor wretched souls cannot pay anything as they are holding on for dear life, each penny going to purchase one last morsel of food or BTU of heat, right?

So if it is OK for 50% of our nation to pay no federal taxes,

then why not 55%,

then why not 60%,

then why not 75%,

then why not 85%,

then why not 99%?

Hyperbole is only allowed when you liberals use it right? So thanks for taking the bait. At what point is our Republic in danger? I would say the answer is when a MINORITY of our citizens pay ALL of the federal income taxes. That point is called socialism and results in a very slippery slope toward the end of our nation.

I suggest you all go read a few history books about the deceased Soviet Union. In their model they rewarded people for working hard for the good of all. Unfortunately not everyone worked their hardest. Pretty soon the hardest working began to slow down because it did no good to work hard for the same wages as those who worked the least. Pretty soon they could not feed themselves. They were bankrupt and their currency was worthless outside the country. They failed as a government and as a country. Hyperbole? You decide. Will the US go down this path too? I think it will if we continue down this path.

This great nation shall not perish from this Earth. But you have reduced the argument to class warfare and whether corporations have too much power. Do you think it is that simple? Because the Soviet state government owned all the businesses and how did that work out? The Soviets paid a pittance to all their people and how did that work out?

A government cannot employ all of its people. The only way it can survive is if it pays them nothing or taxes them 100%. Capitalism creates growth, growth creates wealth and that growth is what sustains a nation.

I used to work for a union dominated company. I remember my UAW colleagues who were the hard workers complaining about their visits from the dregs of the union telling them to slow down, you are making us look bad. Sounds like the Soviets to me.

Those are the thoughts to ponder. Good day my Liberal Progressive Socialist friends.

Wow!..... JAS1 thinks this sexual harassment stuff is just libs “petty arguments”!!! What did this new GOP/TP do with the old party of “Christians and Family Values”? or have they just decided to stop the pretense and let the hate there underneath shine through? Its amazing the way the GOP/TP "moral, family values" right is back pedalling on this issue revealing pure HYPOCRISY....what we have known all along.

This fourth women who has come forth is NOT a lefty bleeding heart lib….she is a Republican Tea Partier! JAS1 and the rest of the have chosen to ignore this fact. As a matter of fact ,I would bet that all of these women are GOP. Makes the lies a little harder to spin....but they will try, it appears they are making it up each day as they go along....The Bible (RLV) Rush Limbaugh Version

SteveH, great post! (3.19). One could expand you thoughts even more. Obama has done so much to wake up the lethargic voters of 2008! No one, I repeat no one who has a clear understanding of the damage caused by this administration would sit home on election day now! Obama will join Jimmy Carter as a one term blunder!

Kevin

What you said is so far from the truth. Obama has tried ov er and ov er again to compromise, but the right won't have it. Even when he proposes exactly what the right proposes they shoot it down because it's from him. A little reality would help your argument handsomely. I just hope the American people start to see beyond the republican lies and distortions, but obviouosly some of them can't.

Again, you are entitled to your own opinions, but facts are another matter.

Now we know why unemployment is so high. Not enough people are sucking the **** of the Republican Congressmen.

Ferro--can you give us some examples of Obama's compromises? Where are the deficit reducing compromises that he was so gung ho about that his own party in the senate would have gone along with? You say he has tried over and over--like what?

The Koch Bros love the idea of having their own black man to do their bidding. It's slavery. That's how they see all of us working class people.

Obama's lack of experience is a now a moot point for 2012, he is an incumbent president, and a very successful CIC, republican candidates won't get very far with that argument this time around. Certainly not Cain, I may be wrong but I think he is the only candidate that has never held a public office.

Like the jobs bill he proposed on national TV Kirk, that was a pitch right down the middle of the plate with plenty of previous republican proposals things that really pissed off his base, and yes some spending as well but it was a very compromising proposal and he was willing to take the political heat from his party, while the republicans were not.

Forrest--first I never said Obama wasnt ever willing to compromise and that wasnt what Ferro said. Second, Obama is a very clever and great politician. That jobs bill was dead before he even announced it and he knew it. It was a very astute political move to seem like he was moderate while knowing it was never going to pass muster with his own party. I will always concede that Obama is a master politician. During the primaries in 2008 and leading up to the election, Obama was able to make pronouncements and election rhetoric that gave voters the view that he was moderate as he was pandering to the large independent vote. For example, he knew that gay marriage was a very unpopular nationally although popular with his base. He pandered to the middle by acting like he was against it. Same thing with closing guantanamo, he pandered to his base while knowing that he wasnt going to close it and it would impact votes. He does that flip flop all the time when it comes to getting votes.

However, when it comes to legislation, he has been far less of a compromiser, leader on getting bipartisan legislation passed unless he is dragged kicking and screaming. It would have been very easy for him to make HCA bipartisan by going against the trial lawyers association and allowing tort reform or competitive bidding on insurance across state lines etc. Same thing with the first stimulus, he could have gotten a bigger bill if he had thrown some pork towards the GOP. He didnt because he didnt feel he had to and pushed it down the GOP's throat. Now he has the Teaparty to deal with and he really doesnt want the grand compromise but he wants to run against them and see if he can take back the house. Might be a good strategy I dont know but he isnt a Clinton. He is more of an idealogue who feels his views are the right ones. You and I have already talked about the jobs bill and we agree that a real infrastructure bill that was bipartisan with protections against local and state budget games that become union payoffs partnered with real tax reform would be popular with the GOP. If Obama wanted to do that while leading his party, he could but that wouldnt really work with the Pelosi side of his party.

I agree that lack of experience is a moot point for Obama in 2012 election, its just unfortunate that we all had to experience the adverse effects of it for the last 4 years.

Hate to tell you all, but when the constitution was forged, the founding fathers seriously toyed with the idea of only allowing landholders and business owners to be entitled to vote.....it took much discussion and alot of persuasion, and nearly stopped the whole process cold to reach the compromise of voting being based upon age and freedom.

Sue, can you provide the background for that as from my understanding it was the other way around. Only landowners were allowed to vote.

So that's the way it is, you characterize all his attempts at compromise that you noted as flip flops because Congress did not pass them. He has invited republicans to the white house time and again, the very people who right from the start said their top priority was to see him fail, he proposes legislation that is right down the middle on national TV but you claim to know his mind and that he only did that as a political stunt. You do know that all but two democrats voted for that bill don't you.

I would never hold the GOP party blameless. Although I know this blog at times sees things as black and white Obama against the GOP while I tend to blame both sides. I see plenty of room for the GOP or some of their party as idealogues that need to compromise for the good of the country. Come on Forrest, you know thats not how legislation that is bipartisan truly gets passed. I gave you examples of flip flops for votes not bills. His jobs bill was a vote for politics not bipartisan legislation. If he wanted it to pass, he would have gotten the votes prior to the vote and you know that. If there was any danger if it passing, more democrats would have voted against it and they knew it. That vote was for politics only. That said, as we have talked before, I am not an Obama hater, I hate his economic policies and his pitting the successful against the entitlement lobby and the unions against taxpayers. I wish that rhetoric would die as I dont hold any of these groups blameless or saints. I also dont like the hard core GOP right wing as their social agenda is just as offensive to me. The idea that Obama is constantly willing to compromise is just not proven to me.

Union members are tax payers they are some of the only people left that make enough to pay taxes, they also take responsibility for their own health insurance and retirement instead of depending on the taxpayers, to subsidize them through medicaid and depending solely on SS in their old age. They are exactly the the people that take responsibility for themselves while the nations taxpayers subsidize Wal Marts employees health care. It's not union members that use the emergency room as a clinic because they have no health insurance. We will have to continue later, I have to get ready to go give a three hour lecture on a very technical subject this evening.

Forrest--good luck with your lecture and as you and I have discussed in the past, I have nothing against unions even though it seems like it when I press back on government unions. In the private sector, I say let it play out as both sides can negotiate on a real arms length basis. In the government arena, its corrupt because of the way politicians provide the benefits for a group that provides them campaign contributions. I also dont understand the need for government unions. In the private sector, I personally think that I would prefer to be in a system in which merit determined pay and promotions but I dont have any problem with people who prefer the security that a union provides and I have no sympathy for management who bargains with them.

As for health care, again you and I are not in disagreement over the fundamental problem just the method of delivery. I dont think Walmart should have to offer employee health care but we do need to address the most cost effective method of delivering health care to people who dont have health care insurance. I dont think Obamacare even comes close to doing that.

Irrational:

[So if it is OK for 50% of our nation to pay no federal taxes...]

Um, no...It's NOT OK...but you really have no idea as to the reason why almost 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax, do you? You might want to research this one, little buddy...it may surprise you.

Between you and SteveH, you are proof positive that conservatism is a mental illness.

Mickey, we have a very screwed up tax system as it is with taxes at the state, local, property, sales, excise, gas, telecommunication, payroll taxes for your retirement and medical retirement benefits all paid for by everyone in this country. Your not excluded based on income. So the one tax that supports the entire country and arguably the most important tax to pay and contribute to, you think its ok for 50% of this country to now be excluded from? So if your poor but you need food, you have to pay tax. So if your poor and you need to buy gas to go to your minimum wage job or use your cell phone etc, you have to pay tax, but if you are asked to contribute to the roads, the military, pay for the government bureaucracy that pays your entitlement benefits, its ok to exclude you because you dont make enough? Dont you think we have our priorities backwards here? I am not advocating to tax the poor as a matter of policy and financially its irrelevant because you dont raise enough money to pay for Obama's deficits but poverty as a defense to paying taxes has already been discarded by our politicians in every other setting.

Jody, yes "nothing to do with color and everything to do with character." Maybe you should take the time to examine the character of some of these accuser's before you contribute to attempting to assasinate the character of the accused. There is 0% proof of any of these allegation's. May other's not be so willing to condemn you if you are ever accused of doing something that you are not guilty of.

Well thank you Kirk, it went very well the adhesive tape on their glasses, pocket protector wearing group I was addressing treated me like I was king of the nerds, it was a blast, I love what I do, and I have learned that an audience can sense that. I'll be all wound up now half the night now.

As for taxes, and who pays, some of you need to do your homework. I am pretty conservative, but if you want to sell the "everyone needs to pay taxes" you don't know your history.

Income taxes started in the 19-teens. The first 1040 form in 1913 exempted the first $20k in income - in 1913 dollars. This is the equivalent to $380,000 today. The starting rate was 1% on income above $20k, with a top rate of 6% on any income OVER $500,000. I have no idea what that is in today's dollars.

So almost no one paid taxes, or to say it another way, only the ultra rich paid any taxes.

Now back then, the government only did a few things, namely defense.

Now here we are less than 100 years later, $15 trillion in debt, overspending $1.5 trillion EACH YEAR.

WIth all of the TRILLIONS we've paid in taxes, and these idiots have not only driven us into the ditch, they have driven us into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

The Democrats and the Republicans have utterly and completely failed. We need a complete bankruptcy style reorganization, sweeping all of the former decision-makers out, as they are either inept, corrupt, dimwits, criminals, or some combination of all the above.

Let's be honest - we messed up. From not paying enough attention, to excusing the bad behavior, to believing we cannot do anything about all of this. The Tea Party and OWS have proven this is not so.

So how about we begin looking at 3rd party solutions, a reset of the tax code, a tax holiday for TAXPAYERS!!!! and see about closing our military bases not essential to our safety, and let our "allies" fend for themselves for say 5 years.

Excellent question, David Walker. The "personhood" bill is a nightmare waiting to happen. And only the uneducated can support it. Can you imagine the ramifications? Would a pregnant woman have to pay for two admissions to events? If you are allowed so many people on an elevator, does a pregnant woman count for two, so she must wait? What about miscarriage, would she go to jail for losing that fetus? We know that the neanderthals of the right wing have long wanted to outlaw abortion, they are less honest about wanting to outlaw most forms of contraceptives. Would this make birth control illegal?

This is simply a push back from neanderthals who wish to go back to the 50's when men did not have to compete with women for jobs.

Will we next see an effort to allow employers to make women resign their jobs when they start to "show" that they are indeed pregnant like in the '50's? Wouldn't doubt that in the least.

As always, another excellent post, David Walker.

The GOP claims to be the small government party yet consistently prove they are the party of big, intrusive government when it comes to private lives especially in the bedroom. The group fronting the Mississippi law declaring a cell is a person is the same group that tried twice in Colorado but failed. The odds are better in a deeply red state. Odd that voters continue to allow outside groups to dictate the invasion of government into their private lives.

Don't forget my favorite: IF making an environment become the cause of the death of the 'person' because it could not be nourished and survive, would the EPA wield an unbelieveably huge stick suddenly?

This is one that really scares me. Now, for the record, I am a Catholic. I personally do not like abortion and when I was of child bearing age, we did the whole family planning thing (the rhythm thing). However, that being said, that was a PERSONAL choice, not one dictated by the state. What these people are attempting is so wrong on so many levels I cannot even begin to say. Women should have the right to do what they want. Keep the state out of my uterus!!!!!

phinephancy-4252115

What gets me is how little energy the right-to-lifers put into changing our culture of casual sex or addressing the pressures on young women to ignore the risks of sex, both emotional risks and phyisical dangers. It's like the right-to-lifers want it both ways: the pleasure of being morally superior without the work of empowering young women to protect themselves.

Amy, I have been saying that for a long time. Personally, I think the right to life groups are the biggest hypocrites around. They are the ones that says all life is precious then cheer for the death penalty. They also want the child to be born, but take away all safety nets for the care of that child. FYI, the best way to cut down on abortion is to offer ways not to get pregnant in the first place!

That may be the most hyperbolic post you have ever made David. The reaction from any rational person should either be Give me a freakin break or "lighten up Francis". Wow, your post is no different than the ones in 2008 from the conservative side that thought the world was going to end and the economy was going to go into the tank if a progressive liberal like Obama was elected. I kept saying quit the hyperbole because McCain is not a great candidate and Obama cant be that bad. Maybe I was wrong on that one as Obama has been that bad ha.

You say we should vote for the party that pursues life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So that means you must be strongly behind the party that is strongly behind self reliance, personal responsibility and accountability. There is no way you would support the political party that strongly advocates economic racism, the government nanny state that keeps the masses tied to welfare and assistance that prevents economic independence, or a government that rewards making bad choices in life in the pursuit of that liberty and happiness? There is no way you would support a party that advocates the punishment of success and taking from them in order to reward the bad choices others make in order to create an equal outcome in life. So I assume you must be voting GOP.

So explain to me why you think Kasich proposals are so terrifying? What constitutional protections do government workers need that require union membership? What protections does a union provide a government employee that they dont already have anyway? Why does merit pay, performance based promotions, wages and benefits consistent with the private sector scare government employees so much? Yes they are negotiating on the other side of the table with politicians who have an economic motivation at least with democrats to not negotiate in good faith so why do you think thats good?

I am pro choice but you act like the pro life folks are loons. I think the protection of children even unborn children is worthy of more than your scorn and ridicule.

phinephancy-4252115

The top rated comedy sitcoms in America treat casual sex as an expected outcome of practically any relationship between a man and a woman. In reality, casual sex is not all that fun for most young women, and is fraught with perils the sitcoms never mention. Bristol Palin is just as likely to have contracted the HPV virus in her first sexual encounter as she did getting pregnant. Furthermore, there are many men out there whose idea of sexual satisfaction hinges on a side order of violence. I am not a prude, and I don't advocate going back to the 50's mentality, however, I feel we aren't doing enough to empower young women, and the right-to-life people just muddy the waters by making it all about "protecting the unborn" when really it's about not having unprotected sex with men you don't care about. As usual, Republicans take a complicated issue and reduce it to a morality story, loaded with hypocrisy and offering ineffective "solutions" that make the matter worse.

Kirk:

Look you clueless twerp, don't you dare tell me what I would or wouldn't think. Don't you dare tell me what equates to what. You can't even order your own thoughts without resorting to personal preconceived notions that only you understand.

You have a forum here to speak for yourself. You most assuredly do not speak for me.

Amy, I have always wondered what concern is a woman's uterus is to a man? Envy? All I know is a bunch of men should NOT have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body. And the decision to end a pregnancy should be between her, her doctor (and if she is religious, her God). Maybe these men have "mommy envy"

Yep, Kirk: Pro life folks are loons. I am convinced that it is some sort of mental illness. And there is no such thing as an unborn child. A child is a child when it leaves the mother ship.

Bravo, David Walker!

Thanks to a dear Facebook friend, this sentiment sums it up:

For all those men who say, “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

Here’s an update for you. Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it’s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.

Author unknown; but celebrated by millions everywhere!

David,

Sounded like fair questions and you refer to name calling? -Ouch, hey Jody, you approve of the name calling? Just wondering?

Clara:

Zowie! That was very funny.

Oh David bravo, you really got me. That rebuttal was so well thought out and intellectually stimulating I wet myself. Sorry I hurt your delicate feelings as you pontificate to your audience. Sorry that most of us with real life experience dont always agree with you but keep embellishing away and feeling like the "man" is your enemy. Keep up the good fight against self reliance and personal accountability I am sure thats a long term winning strategy.

Newday dawning or phinephancy--I have no interest in getting into the abortion debate but its interesting that you have so little respect for those who have heart felt passionate beliefs different than yours and you accuse those people of getting involved in other peoples personal decisions. I suppose that is somehow different than people's personal financial rights. I find it offensive that you feel the need to get put your hands in my pocketbook, or decide who can be circumcised, or who can own a firearm. There are all kinds of laws, rules etc that are advocated by different groups that infringe on our personal rights all the time. There are people who dont want to allow someone to be able to personally pray in public right? I might agree or disagree with some, all or none of these various infringements but I dont see the people on the other side of those opinions as loons or having a mental illness.

Kirk:

When you worship cell division, when you obsess about that cell division to the point that it becomes your reason for being. When you scream at women, who are in the most vulnerable place in their lives and call them murderer, when you decide that there is not cell division going on, but a real whole child is somehow implanted in a womb, when you think that you OWN every women's womb. And when it really becomes a living breathing child with needs, you try to cut any reasonable supportive and educational service...

YOU MIGHT HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS.

Kirk is right and Dave, Jody the Red dead head and the rest of you loons are wrong. You liberals truly are destroying the self reliance of everyone. As of right now the top 50% of your country is supporting the bottom 50% which most are dead beats. I do enjoy that. That percentage is getting worse every year and will be the destruction of your country. Look around at the rest of the world, Greece, Ireland, Syria, Yemen, Spain, France and Germany are all in decline, and facing massive cuts in their Socialist policies including many others that WILL be bankrupt and unable to sustain themselves have done exactly what you are preaching should be done and have failed miserably and is dragging down the rest of the world. Your turn will happen in the next 10 years maybe sooner if you re-elect Obama. You will not be able to turn around from the massive damage you will have brought about yourself quickly. You will take at least 50 years to undue what one more term for Obama will bring to your country. You are pigs and sheep being lead to the slaughter and the whole world is praying for it to happen. After all, what makes you so special anymore? Be my guest and vote that brain dead pres. of yours in again and watch the collapse of your country. I can always go back home when the funds dry up but I don't think they will. The proof is living it. Nine kids @ $950 a month (single parent) for each one get us $8,250.00 a month, plus free medical and food, electricity and heat assistance and we get close to $102,000 dollars a year and its now good untill all the kids turn 26. Plus free school lunches and education expences, don't have to work and they bought us a 8 passenger SUV to haul all of us. GO OBAMA 2012. Thanks for paying your taxes. I am set for the next 17 years.

Bravo Kirk.... You did it!

You got David Walker to react like the little chid he is!

You came at him with truth and facts that he cant fight so he retaliated by throwing a temper tantrum....

He is a liberal and that is what they do.

Brilliant post though Kirk....

Someday these liberals will realize that we cant reward failure and punish success.

Newday--again I am not getting into the abortion debate because I am pro choice and I cringe when I see the protestors with the signs in front of the clinic for probably the same reasons you do. But I also cringe at the amazingly stupid signs put up by the chicago Occupy Wall street crowd. For the most part, many of these people want respect and dignity and be taken seriously for the heartfelt passionate beliefs they have. I dont think these people no matter how naive destructive or wrong their signs or beliefs are, I dont find them mentally ill. If you were to tell me that you thought that all animals have the same rights as humans such as PETA does and constitutionally protected, I might think your passions are misplaced but again I dont think you are mentally ill.

If euthanasia is against the law, abortion must also be against the law. If it is OK to abort, it is also OK to euthanize. Folks, you can't have it both ways. Either it is OK to kill, or it is not, but it should be decided for both the beginning and end of life consistently.

But the rabid anti choicers ARE

David Walker

Huge fan of yours.

Wish you would post a blog outside FR. If you ever do, let me know cause Id like to make it a daily read.

@Robert@MO - I agree, euthanizing should be legal. Nice to see an argument for it - now let's get it legalized.

Clara -

to a dear Facebook friend, this sentiment sums it up:

For all those men who say, “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

Here’s an update for you. Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it’s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.

Oh, sh*t! That's the first time I've ever seen that and, with all due respect, I have to steal it!! ROFL!!

David Walker you are a fool, Sir

courage, yes, the guts to crush this right wing threat? Truly, this is a fight for the American heart and soul. Freedom or chains?

Whenever someone vilifies their opponent with fear such as you have, clearly he has already lost the debate.

you wrote:

Mississippi voters are asked to decide whether "personhood" is established at the moment of conception. A question that cannot be answered in the scientific community is to be answered by a majority of voters. Ballot box science!

Or we can just take your word for it? is that it? People deciding for themselves bother you or something or would you rather have the Government tell you what to think?

You wrote:

Those who would abridge that right in Ohio, Governor John Kasich and his henchmen, would have us believe that public unions are destroying our government. Here is the unvarnished truth. The unions do not negotiate contracts alone. They face negotiators across the bargaining table. It is elected officials and their representatives - like Kasich and company - who sit across the table from those evil union negotiators.

So what value does the public union gain for these public employees? To take more taxpayer money. These jobs have attrition rates of less than 2%. Are you OK with retirements for Dog Catcher at $125K a year due to accounting tricks within the contract? Are you OK with the unions going on strike and shutting down the government and not providing their services to the taxpayer to whom they are beholden.

As someone who has negotiated with a private union I can tell you there is one common link between labor and management, we both want the company to succeed and survive. The rank and file knows the company can close up shop if they demand too much. Tell me how the public unions feel about shutting down the government, any chance they think the government will fold and move to another state?

Whatever you say David. I hope you are sad tomorrow.

(about 15 of them) have alreay voted and are sitting in a little restaurant having breakfast.

I'd like to buy them a round of Mimosa's! ;o)

Feisty, I happen to know that this evening the whole group of them will be at my mothers drinking gin & tonics!

Good for them! They sound like a lot of fun!

Trust me, it is hard to keep up with them! They are the best of the "greatest generation"!

phinephancy - 4252115 - Wish I was with them having some breakfast! And I would enjoy that Mimosa Feisty! Vote no on Issue 2 in Ohio!

And I would enjoy that Mimosa Feisty!

Tell you what...

Tomorrow morning after the good people of OH send a resounding NO to Kasich & his cronies - I'll be here with Mimosa's for everyone! ;o)

Woo Hoo!!! Count me in, Feisty!

phinephancy-4252115

Reminds me of the time the GOP very nicely arranged to give a ride to the polls to my elderly mother, a life long Republican, and she went in the booth and pulled the lever for John Kerry! (SHe hated George Bush, smart lady.)

phinephancy......love the stories of your Mom and her friends. I'm with Jody Ohio I wish I could be having breakfast with them too...they sound so like much fun.

Hugs to you and all of them.

Wish I was with them too! Days like today, Florida is a long way from Ohio. On the bright side, tonight, when she calls, she will have the whole group on speaker phone. Cannot wait to hear what the "gang" will have to say as the results come in. If I can't be there, it is the next best thing.

The Fedex guy just came to the door. I just received a package from my mother. 2 bottles of wine with cheese and crackers that me & the hubby are to enjoy as we talk with everybody tonight. Woo Hoo! Is my mom classy or what!!!!!

phinephancy----do you think your mother would consider adopting me? I lost mine a few years ago and she sounds just great! Please tell her how much pleasure she has brought to us here with her attitude and actions. If anyone is considering not voting today, she would surely put them to shame!!

Steeler Fan, she would adopt you if would agree to give the the Steelers for the Bengals. She absolutely loves her Bengals!

phinephancy---that Bengals thing could be a deal-breaker! Please ask her to show my Steelers some hospitality when we travel to Cinci this weekend---we're a bit bruised after Sunday night!

phinephancy, cheers to your mother and her friends! That's great news. Also want to say terrific comment on the issue of pro-life and pro-choice. One can be both because it is no one's business least of all Governments and the radical fanatics. You expressed the view of most people, myself included. Gin and tonic is my favorite!

I'm head out shortly to vote for town mayor and city council. No big issues locally today.

wonder if Dom and Mark will post a 'non week ahead' thread for the party crowd? lol

I'll be there with my 'lush' on!

Go Ohio and vote No!! Love those Moms. : ) Cheers to them may there be a few million more just like them!!

That's right Ohio vote "NO" ... let the job cutting begin!!!

@Amy: Smart posts!

I also have to chime in...pro-life is all about "saving the baby". They don't care about the mom, they don't answer "Who will take care of this kid?"*, all they care about is another useless kid being born into a world with 7 billion people [and growing].

Before you answer, "All of them can be adopted", think again. If you count the number of for-non-lethal-purposes abortions in the U.S., if all of them were "negated" so children were born, the number of adoptive families is much smaller than what the need would be. The moms obviously don't want to have children, so...you have a surplus of dumpster babies.

The deficits will start coming down when the folks hiding all their money offshore and gaming the tax code start to pay their taxes.

Alan -- You are comparing an apple (US) to peanuts....enough said. I think everyone can agree the deficit has to come down.

The bigger issue is the too big to fails are too big and global. Advocate they be broken up.

"Now tell me when do the deficits start coming down?"

Why, when we give MORE tax breaks to the wealthy, you big silly!

Alan, if you expected a serious answer from the LibsRUs charter members, by now you're sadly disappointed.

The deficit comes down when employment picks up. Remember Obama saying he could clean out the old and obsolete regulations on businesses? That never happened, regulations have increased instead. And ObamaCare waivers only help the politically connected companies that got them, not the 99%-er companies that are on the hook for paying for it. Liberals cannot comprehend how damaging ObamaCare is to the economy. The other side of coin is that Medicare and Social Security need to be reformed. The GOP attempted to do so, only to be demagogued by Obama and the Democrats. Neither reforms will happen soon, and both programs will be a major drag on the economy.

I wish Republicans would be specific about what "regulations" are hampering business. It's one of their favorite talking points, but they don't tell you exactly what they mean. Nobody likes useless paperwork, or lengthy permit processes, but then, again, we don't want formaldehyde emitting sheet rock from China turning up in houses all across America, no matter how cheap it was to use.

The difference between US debt and European debt is that US debt is long-term and much of the European debt is of the short-term, bill-collectors calling you at midnight warning they're going to repossess your country, variety.

Italy must pay nearly 7% on its debt, and 7% is the point of no return, according to one article I read. Interest on US debt, however, is still under 1%, meaning that investors still have great confidence in the ability of the US to pay it off, despite the Republicans' best efforts to bad-mouth the credit worthiness of the United States in hopes of causing a Greece-like crisis here that would benefit them politically.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Nobody likes useless paperwork, or lengthy permit processes, but then, again, we don't want formaldehyde emitting sheet rock from China turning up in houses all across America, no matter how cheap it was to use.

I guess the Republicans think the free market and social Darwinism will solve the problem. People genetically predisposed to buy sheet rock from China will be more likely to die before bearing children, thus removing themselves from the gene pool. Problem solved!

JAS1 -- Both Hunstman and Perry's friends, family and the state of Texas were the first in line to take advantage of a component of the Obama healthcare law. Pretty funny huh? Actually there is a whole list of companies that jumped on the bandwagon for that component as well. But don't tell anyone okay?

Deficit? What Deficit? AP reports today 2 Dems (Stabenow & Peterson) and 2 Repubs (Lucas & Roberts) are working to get an "insurance" plan for corn growers into the Supercommittee's report, to guarantee corn growers will continue their record profits at public expense when the automobile-destroying ethanol subsidy expires next month. This has the potential to cancel much of the savings from doing away with some of the un-needed "crop support" payments that is finally being proposed. Even the American Farm Bureau Federation is against this plan by corn lobbyists and their captive lawmakers (Lucas is even the chair of the House Agriculture Committee!), especially as it was just announced that farm profits are expected to rise 31% over 2010 levels this year! What is wrong with our government, that they just don't hear the message from both the left and the right that they are supposed to work FOR US?

Yes the deficit will come down if employment recovers but not by enough. The demographics of the entitlement programs are against any long-term reduction in deficit or debt. So the question is how long will foreign creditors pay for us to maintain our lifestyle.

A second part of this is that average, and I know average covers a lot, seniors are 47 times wealthier than 35 year olds and less, and these are the workers (assuming they have jobs) that are paying for the seniors retirement. Now I know this will affect me personally in a big way because I have been saving every penny I can for my retirement but to me this calls out for means-testing.

I'm not into name calling but I did read an article on entitlement reform that called the Democrats the Ostrich Party. It may have some relevance in these debates.

www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x394188331/Thomasson-Ostriches-and-Social-Security

Alan, NJ: Now I know this will affect me personally in a big way because I have been saving every penny I can for my retirement but to me this calls out for means-testing.

Means testing is inevitable. It's at the point where we really don't have a choice.

I wish Republicans would be specific about what "regulations" are hampering business. It's one of their favorite talking points, but they don't tell you exactly what they mean.

Two of the biggest bills concerning regulation are ACA and Dodds-Franks. The problem with both of these bills is that the complexity of the legislation pushed the actual interpretation and requirements onto the appropriate agencies, HHS and Treasury/SEC. What is happening right now is that the regulations are being written as we speak based on the interpretations of the two agencies. Because of this businesses do not know what regulations they will be subjected to, or what compliance will require. The last time I saw this happen was when Sarbanes-Oxley was introduced. It was a much smaller bill and had it's basic requirements well defined before businesses had to comply. The two bills I mentioned are much larger and are still very much a work in progress. Look at the fact CLASS was just dropped and the number of exemptions granted from ACA compliance.

I wish they would have chosen to go with means testing for the extended unemployment also. The people that really needed it would have it.

Both Hunstman and Perry's friends, family and the state of Texas were the first in line to take advantage of a component of the Obama healthcare law. Pretty funny huh? Actually there is a whole list of companies that jumped on the bandwagon for that component as well. But don't tell anyone okay?

So how is this different from a millionaire/billionaire (no names) complaining publicly that they are not taxed enough and then using the current laws to pay as little tax as possible?

As I keep posting here is the web site for all those that want to contribute directly to the debt. I still do not understand why Mr Buffet has not made use of this facility.

www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

Alan, NJ, so, your post on regulations had me scurrying to the Google to understand what you were talking about :)

I learned that, Instead of praising the exemptions to the Affordable Care Act the administration is granting, Republicans are using the administration's flexibility to claim the Act is unworkable (i.e. it's impossible to get every employee covered with adequate health insurance.) Once again, Republicans are just attacking "Obamacare" for political reasons, not because it actually hampers business or job creation in any way. In fact the administration is granting exemptions right and left, until health insurance exchanges are set up, where companies can find affordable plans.

In fact the administration is granting exemptions right and left, until health insurance exchanges are set up, where companies can find affordable plans.

I thought health insurance exchanges were for individuals not employers? One of the consequences (and I'll leave open the question of whether this was intended), is that employers are waiting to see what their costs will be if they simply drop health coverage for their employees. How can this not create uncertainty? Further to that, how can an employer plan to keep health care for their employees if they do not know if their plan will comply with the law as the regulations are still being finalized? Tell me, if you were a small to medium sized business (not a multi-national that have large HR/benefit managers to work exclusively on this), would you be expanding your workforce, or would be in a holding pattern until you see how things shake out? Would you bring on more employees or ask your current staff to work overtime until you knew the lay of the land? I know that you'll come back with "if the demand is there argument", but say the decision is marginal. Would you take on 1 or 2 people more or ask your current staff to work overtime? To me common sense says you minimize risk and work with what you have until nearer 2014 when you can get a better handle on what the rules are.

And even for the companies / unions that have been granted exemptions, they are still in limbo because a final decision on whether their plans will pass muster has not been made. Who knows, if a Republican is elected President the new HHS secretary may simply grant exemptions until 2016. Do you now see how these laws, the way they were written by passing so much responsibility to the executive, have simply created needless uncertainty?

Ahh...Alan,

Yes, I know I keep telling the dshdrm or whatever her name is to go donate as well. And she is a republican that doesn't pay any taxes.

One shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.

Deficits coming down? Why would either party care about spending? You see, the looney libs blame the rich for not paying enough taxes....even though they follow the tax-code. The Right will point to the fact that 47% of Americans who file taxes, either get all their money back or actually get a credit as allowed by the tax code.

With both those extremes, it seems to me the problem is not the 'rich' or the 'others' so much as it is the tax system. Sorry, there should be NO ONE on either end of the spectrum NOT paying something in FEDERAL taxes. I don't want to hear some nonsense about other taxes 'they' pay...we all pay those other taxes.

So scrap the tax system and pay up, everyone....sorry, you want to get rid of deficits everyone has to contribute. I'm tired of hearing about the supposed rich that don't pay enough while there are people who end up with a zero Federal tax contribution. There should be a minimum someone pays, nothing in life is free especially not the services one is afforded by being a US Citizen. Using 'they are poor' or 'they live below poverty' is no excuse, you can get a 'free pass' for so long. Get off your backside and better yourself and stop blaming society for your lack of success.

People STILL come to this country (LEGALY) with no more than a suitcase and become successful, it is no different for someone who has lived here their entire life. The only difference is the perosn with no ambition who has lived here their entire life seem to think everyone else is to blame.

Alan NJ

"Means Testing" is just another way to attack Social Security and Medicare. Never mind that people paid into the system all their working lives and somehow managed to have an income at retirement that exceeds the poverty level. If you paid into it, you should, at the very least, be able to get back out what you paid in.

On the other hand, I think everyone should be paying into the system on every dollar that they make. That one change would solve the problem with funding SS.

MKM--raising the cap wouldnt solve the problem for the very reason you just stated, if you want to give them back their money, you have to give back the additional benefits earned as a result of raising the cap. All you do is make it a greater wealth transfer to the wealthy seniors. Seniors are already in the aggregate control 80% of this countrys wealth and the CBO report indicated that they are a big factor in the income inequality problem over the last 25 years as more money is taken from the young working poor and middle class to provide to wealthy seniors via social security and medicare. Of course, if we wanted to call social security a welfare plan, we could tax more from the current working young people no matter how much money they make and keep the benefits to our wealthy seniors. I realize that we made a social contract with seniors but what about the social contract with our kids and grandkids that we wouldnt leave them in a worse standard of living than us?

How must Mitt Romney feel to realize that people would rather vote for Herman Cain than him? I had not heard of a 5th woman coming public. Those are brave women to face the media and know that their lives will be torn apart and exposed to scrutiny.

Wonder if and when Mrs. Cain has talked with Hermie? When he does finally show up at home, bet she has an iron skillet in her hand - and NOT for using to fry up the bacon!

Northstar, your polling place will do more business today than the GOP congress will do all year! LOL

In our state we have mail-in ballots! I have cast mine! I do miss going to the polls and chatting with folks, but mail-in is convenient for those who work! Hoping for a good turnout!

Nurse

You forgot your tag line

Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us

(just joshing ya-enjoy reading your posts!)

The thing we political junkies forget is that the rest of the country is not as engaged in politics as we are. Hard to imagine, but it is not their main focus. Just wait until they start tuning in and realize the harm that has been done to our economy by the Republican intransigence. The best candidate they offer in Romney has a history of outsourcing jobs---not going to play well with people who are struggling in the economy to make ends meet.

My father is the son of a former Lt Gov. He considers himself a engaged educated person. So I find myself amazed every time he starts spouting from a sound bite. I spend my time finding him the whole interview and showing him that something was taking out of context or I send him the House bill highlighting the part that was picked out so someone could make a point with out reading the whole thing. I am now watching C-span like some retiree just so I can see that facts for my self and not some reporters opinion. Just have to say I have not ran into anything on C-span that looks like these guys spend anytime there focused on the currant big issues either so these local elections seem more important than the POTUS. If you have some spare time you should watch a few. The one about letting companys call your Cell Phones was at least interesting.

I really think next week's poll numbers will tell the tale for Hermie and Rick Perry. Between today's election results and all the scandal of Mr. Cain I really look forward to seeing if the GOP will say enough. And if they do tire of Cain, where does that support go? Fun times ahead!

Not sure about other states that require ID but Ohio gives them out for free and offers transportation to anyone who can't seem to find a way to the stations that provide the FREE ID's.

The only people who won't be able to get a state ID are those who can't prove they're US citizens.

If those who can't prove they're US citizens are suppressed then I am all for it.

3rdpartyadvocate

The only people who won't be able to get a state ID are those who can't prove they're US citizens.

And the Republicans get to decide what "proof" is. In Texas, a concealed gun permit is considered proof because Republicans are more likely to pack a heater than Democrats, but state university photo IDs are not considered proof because students tend to vote too liberal for the liking of our Republican overlords here. A New Hampshire Republican official even admitted publicly that the the motivation of the Jim Crow law there was discouraging students from voting, not to prevent the virtually non-existent crime of voting under a false name.

BTW: Ohio is one of the states with a new Jim Crow law to keep blacks from voting, but I'm not sure if it's gone into effect yet.

Houston,

Because you have to get a background check for a concealed weapons permit. It's a lot harder to get one than a regular ID, that's why not too many people can get them. I didn't know the right to carry was a Republican/Democrat thing? Most people know that a student ID is not an official form of ID. It's not issued by the government. I know you're smarter than that!

In South Carolina, there is no way the state has the facilities or the money to accommodate the issuance of ID's to the nearly 200,000 registered voters who do not have driver's licenses or other state issued ID. The governor has offered to drive them in her car. She laughed when she said it. Why is it that people do not seem to be able to get their heads around the idea that not everyone who is eligible to vote has a driver's license but that they do have a Constitutional right to vote? Any limitations on their ability to vote constitutes a poll tax, which is a violation of federal law. The ACLU is fighting the SC law. I assume they are fighting similar laws.

You don't have to have a drivers license, you can get a state issued photo ID and be covered. We all have a constitutional right to vote, but failing to register, not having an ID, or not being willing to go and vote do not constitute a violation of anyones rights by anyone other than themselves.

Mark, I can actually see where a person could claim to be both a tea party and an OWS supporter. I think there are valid opportunities, benefits and positions in both camps. However, I also think any group/organization/coalition can contain enough befuddled members who can't express a coherent thought or position. And in that they lose support and credibility.

-----------------------------

Moderation in all things

lollllllllllll

haven't traveled much have you.

Stomper,

I hope you really don't believe that. We lost legitamacy the day he took office. All anyone else could do is help.

bingo.

why vote against your meal ticket.

OoOoO Alex..... your going to get your a$$ handed to you by the chubette from IL. I said something similar about 4 months ago and I still hear it in every 5th or 6th post. I dont know why I have visions of Kathy Bates when I see her Moniker!

What an insulting statement to hard working african american people. Alex agreeing as though it is true is aslo an insult. I hope you guys don't really believe that and are just looking to get a reaction. That would be a slap in your parents face for how they raised you. More white people are on welfare than black people, do research before making stupid comments

OoOoO Alex..... your going to get your a$$ handed to you by the chubette from IL

Speaking of getting their ass handed to them - where did you run off to yesterday Harry?

I thought a weekend warrior like yourself would at least attempt to defend your bullsh!t...

Obama’s incredible strength with African-American voters

A vote for Obama because he is black is racist.

BSCOL - Other black people have run for office and didn't have the support of the black community. There are other qualities that cause one to support a candidate. It is racist to think black people aren't smart enough to use good judgement but that they only vote based on color. Hermain Cain is black but doesn't have the support of the black community so that negates the voting only based on color arguement. But you have shown what you think of the black persons mentallity and don't think we look at the grassroots work he did in Chicago, how he averted a long recession and the collapse of major American employers, assisted many the opportunity not to choose between prescriptions and food, helps to ensure the next generation doesn't graduate from college and spend 20 years paying for their college debt, is building the infrastructure of America's highways, bridges and roads while employing Americans to perform the construction tasks. But hey we just look at his color, Right

3rdpartyadvocate

Ohio's fate is a done deal. Just another state that will depend on the feds to support the welfare roles, unions and unwed mothers.

Yeah, how unjust it is to coddle those unions and unwed mothers after they cratered the economy in 2007 with their credit default swap and toxic asset scams. Ain't no justice in the world, is there?

I'm just stating the facts. I love Ohio. I was born here. Ohio used to lead the nation in Education. Ohio was next to last in taxes.

Ohio is the new Massachusetts that's all.

A study in Ohio also showed that over 60% of all unwed mothers on the dole have the babies' father living in with them. And most people are Ok with that. If you can lie and get money from the government then you're a hero.

3rdpartyadvocate

Ohio is the new Massachusetts that's all.

Ohio probably wishes they were. LIBERAL Massachusetts' unemployment rate is 7.3%, 1.7% lower than the national average and 1.3% lower than the conservative Texas "miracle" economy that's more of a mirage. The closure of the steel mills and other heavy industry and outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries is what put Ohio in its present predicament now matter how much you want to blame it on the poor people and unions you so despise.

I LIVE HERE. NCR is not a steel mill. Ohio gasket company is not a steel mill. 100's of born and raised in Ohio business is gone. PERIOD. Steel mill jobs left in the 1990's. The census was from 2000 to 2010.

Try again pal. You do not know what you're talking about. Like it or not taxpayers are leaving Ohio in droves. PERIOD. Wisconsin taxpayers are leaving their state. Good luck pal.

Ohio was a manufacturing state. Cincinati was once a major auto producer before WWII and only a couple of decades ago the bridges from Kentucky were packed with communters every day. Take away the jobs, and only those who can't afford to relocate are left. There weren't "millions on the dole for life" in Ohio, though there were millions who worked hard for an adequate, if not comfortable, wage and have now been on the dole for a decade or more. Its happening in the majority of cities - the welfare system is better organized there, and often non-existent in the next county where the manufacturing plant used to enjoy its low taxes. A restructuring of our economy has got to happen if this situation is not to become permanent, and probably worse for us eventually than for many other countries.

Our welfare system was born of the Great Depression, when there were no jobs, even on farms, and it was orginally designed to keep children from starving and to help the truly destitute. But its rules say, "You mustn't do any work, you mustn't have your boyfriend or husband with you, and you ought to have children you can't support (and we better not hear their father(s) works), then we'll look after you". In other countries with longer histories, their welfare systems (which we decry as 'socialistic') originated during the industrial revolution, when family-friendly (so to speak) farm jobs were being replaced with factory jobs in less family-friendly cities 150 years ago. So their rules tend to say, "You've got to have a job, just any job, and your husband will be stripped of help if he's not with you and working at some kind of job, and you will get help with your children, and if you've got more than 3 we'll cover your birth control, and as long as you work, we'll put benefits in place to be sure you don't starve or become homeless." We've got it backwards. Help to people who're actually working isn't the American way, but it makes a lot more sense than only helping people only if they avoid any work whatsoever.

Tennessee , Does not want you .

When other states were moving toward Biotechnology, Engineering and other developing industries OHIO with it's good ol boy ways of doing business didn't change with the times. A recent graduate wouldn't consider OHIO as a place to go find a job because if is a warehouse worker state. I am not knocking manual labor as not important but there needs to be diversification into growth industries and many other states lured progressive companies to their states with tax abatements and other enticements. People are leaving OHIO but not taxpayers... Taxpayers have jobs and people are leaving because there aren't enough jobs. In order for manufacturing companies to survive they must move a portion of their operations overseas because foriegn workers will work for less. OHIO better change or we will see many ghost towns.

What's scary is people who don't have a clue about what a socialist really is vote based on their ignorance. Ignorance of that magnitude is how we ended up with Bush's eight catastrophic years in office.

Cain is a victim of narcissism, that's all. Clinton seems to have gotten over some of his as he's aged, maybe Cain will too. I'd like for him to do it on his own time though. I'm not sure he's smart enough to multi-task like Clinton, with business of world importance all over his desk, and an intern on her knees under it.

Steve do you hate all liberals and all democrats?

Steve Like ducks following their mommy. What a brilliant statement!! The republican party has the program mastered with their signing of a piece of paper for Mr. Nordquist. Does the republican party have no one that can think for themselves. I now know why I am an independent!

that 43 million dollar impeachment is a figment of my imagination then ?

Steve, but the dems and Clinton are not family values replublicans. How can you run on family values and then not have any?

Obama bowing to kings overseas is the biggest embarassment the USA has even had. PERIOD.

Destroying? Cain f***** up big and he didn't even flinch. Republicans and Democrats are morons. It is time to overthrow the great government of the United States at all levels. Overthrow, coward. Overthrow. You got that? That means no more federal, state or municipal governments. No more military machine and no por pigs on the street.

Yet you gave Bush a pass, when he held the hands and kissed the *ss of the Saudi royalty, didn't you 3rdparty. That was OK?

How about the fact, that the investigations into the Saudi connections to 9/11(most hijackers were Saudis), were almost non-existent. The Bush Admin. didn't want to p*ss off their suppliers of black gold.

You'll get your wish the polls show you will. There are more tax takers in Ohio than tax payers. The tax takers are always going to vote for more taxes to supply their food stamps to union payrolls and 100% free benefits. But the facts are the facts and tax payers are moving out of the oppressive states. Me included.

What happens in my small town after the unions win? Six police officers and 12 firefighters will lose their jobs. My town can't pull money out of it's azz. The union leaders are eating their own. Everyone could of kept their jobs but that is not going to happen.

Good luck taxing no one left to tax.

Well said. The Republican party runs on jobs and if they are elected they switch to their real agenda.

Please go to school BARNEY. Great not Grate. The black community CAN spell, thats what it says about the black community. Idiot

educated I have spelled it 100% correctly. He is so far from a GREAT leader that it is difficult to express. However, the way he whines and moans, blames EVERYTHING on Bush, the Republicans, the Arab Summer, the earthquake and tsunami in Japan, and anything but his FAILED policies does GRATE on my nerves. So take a breath and just understand that I have spell check, I use it and while I an human and do make mistakes this is absolutely the proper way to address Barrack Hussein Obama as grate leader. And doesn't it say it all that you call names? That's what Lib/Progs do when faced with the facts. The highest rate of unemployment in the country is in the Black community, due to the fact that many are on the government dole they will be the least likely to recover from the economic disaster (not to mention that they have Al Sharpton and Jesse's Jackson keeping them down trodden) and as a small business owner that has gone into three (3) apartment complexes that Katrina VICTIMS have vacated I know that the people that lived there were entitled to the freebies and took ZERO care of the generosity of the people and the government helping them. Not all were/are Black but it is a sad statement if as I stated that that large a majority are supporting the Loser in Chief!

Barney your right. You are so smart and the president is a dumb whiner. You should run for president and put everything back on track because you are so much smarter than he is, But in the meantime may I have fries with my burger, in a separate bag.

Amen, sister Steeler, AMEN.

You can tell when the righties are having a bad week,...they go all 'nucular' over here and tear down the wall paper,...what a bunch of panty wastes. Offensive jargon intended.

Cain is a thousand times............Oh, wait. Ron Paul is your measurement standard. So we're not talking about qualified to be president, we're talking about qualified to look ridiculous. As long as Mr. Noodle from Sesame Street doesn't get into the race, you're probably OK with your assessment of Cain.

Ideas for change? Paul changes his platform more times than he changes his underwear. All americans must cast a write-in vote. Forget washington!

Ron Paul changes his platform???? You're clearly confusing him with someone else. Ron Paul has been saying the SAME THINGS for 30+ years and doesn't flip-flop. Every vote he takes is consistent with the CONSTITUTION, and the principles of liberty.

Danl, You are very confused. Ron Paul is the biggest slave to principle I have ever seen in politics. He will do what he says if he is elected. Neither Paul nor Cain are politicians, they are just normal citizens trying to save their country. They are statesmen.

Dave: Whose version of the Constitution. I am not sure about Paul himself but many of the rightwingers have one version that exists and the other version they have conjured up to suit what they want. Like illegal stops for all people looking like a certain type. They overlooked that part. And to top it off when Boehner read the beginning of the Dec of Independence he read it for the Constitution. Now that tops it all!If you don't follow the Constitution and you don't know what is in it to begin with especially while having someone read it out loud and you weren't listening it is just empty word.!

Obama the victim? What a crock. Get a brain.,

How many people watched the last republican debate? I should have taped it and counted how many times the candidates made a point and I said that was Bushs fault.It happened during the Bush years. That is Obamas stance on this topic. Then I saw how many times Cain made the comment I have a big plan and first we have to fix the economy. It is like this robots. Does Cain not realize that for 3 years everything Obama has been trying to do one way or another is fix the economy. And I don't know how many times BAchman says we have to get rid of Obamacare or Romney care or whatever. She says it is ruining job growth. That is nice since it hasn't even been enacted yet. I wish the debate had laster longer so that the people on the panel could have backed them in their corners and made them explain or confess that what they were saying was wrong according to many economic experts and actual facts. As long as they can keep spreading false facts people might believe them and vote for them. If anyone hasn't checked out the revometer on Al Sharptons show they need to check it out. It is funny because on one hand we have a blago for our exgovernor and on the other side we have Lincoln for telling the truth. He is funny. I am getting free of the Fox News bias I used to believe about him. He is really quite funny and believe it or not reasonable.