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On Tuesday Mississippi voters will decide whether to approve a measure, Initiative 26, that would amend the state constitution to define the word “person” to include every human being “from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.”
On the surface, it would seem to be a favorable advance for the cause of abortion opponents but the nature of the measure has sparked concern among some anti-abortion advocates that the passage of the measure could eventually threaten already-existing abortion restrictions.
Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, a Republican, told NBC’s Chuck Todd last week that he believes that life begins at conception but “unfortunately, this personhood amendment doesn’t say that. It says that life begins at fertilization or cloning or the functional equivalent thereof.” He said, “That ambiguity is striking a lot of pro-life people here as concerning.”
Nonetheless Barbour later overcame his misgivings and said he voted for the measure when he cast his absentee ballot in advance of Tuesday. He also complained Friday that a group opposing the ballot measure, “has called people's homes and deceived voters into thinking I'm opposed to Initiative 26, the Personhood Amendment. As I've previously stated, I voted for the Personhood Amendment.”
Opinion: Human rights for fertilized eggs? Initiative at odds with science
Despite his vote, Barbour was articulate in explaining why some anti-abortion advocates think the Mississippi measure is either misguided or may lead to unintended consequences.
He said, “Strategically, there’s some national organizations that think this may mess up trying to get more pro-life policies adopted nationally.”
He also said, “I am concerned about some of the ramifications on in-vitro fertilization (and) ectopic pregnancies, pregnancies outside the uterus in the Fallopian tubes. That concerns me, I have to just say it.”
Jennifer Mason, a spokeswoman for PersonhoodUSA, a Colorado group which is supporting the Mississippi measure, said its proponents “were able to answer his concerns and that’s why he voted for it.” Mason cited a study by a conservative group, the Mississippi Center for Public Policy, which determined that Initiative 26 would not outlaw in vitro fertilization.
A statewide vote has a lot of women in fear over the future of certain forms of birth control. NBC's Than Truong reports.
But, in an opinion piece in the Mississippi Business Journal, Jonathan Will, director of the Mississippi College School of Law’s Bioethics and Health Law Center, who opposes the measure, said “If two out of three pre-embryos are lost in the (in vitro fertilization) process, this would seem to be an unacceptable loss of life. If we are committed to pre-embryonic personhood, we should be committed to banning IVF and other similarly risky fertility treatments until such technologies are safe for all persons (including pre-embryos) involved.”
Prominent conservative lawyer James Bopp, who has argued several abortion and free speech cases before the Supreme Court and is the general counsel for the National Right to Life Committee, said that lower federal courts would be likely to strike down the Mississippi measure, if it were enacted, and that the Supreme Court would likely not review the lower court’s ruling.
But if the high court did agree to hear the case, Bopp said, there is a “very substantial danger” that a majority of the justices would adopt a stronger basis for finding that there is a fundamental right to abortion than the due process rationale Justice Harry Blackmun used in the landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade decision.
If that were to happen, Bopp said, the current state and federal restrictions on abortion, such as the Hyde amendment banning federal funding of abortions in the Medicaid program, and laws requiring parental notification before a minor get an abortion, would be swept away.
Bopp sketched out his concerns in a widely circulated memo, pointing to the argument that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made in her dissent in Carhart v Gonzales, the 2007 decision in which the justices upheld the federal law banning the procedure known as partial birth abortion.
A constitutional right to abortion, Ginsburg said, ought to “center on a woman’s autonomy to determine her life’s course, and thus to enjoy equal citizenship stature.”
Mason said Personhood USA’s lawyers think Bopp is wrong. “What we’re expecting to happen with the personhood amendment is that abortion will be made illegal in Mississippi. And that is what the pro-life movement has been working for since the passage of Roe v. Wade -- to ensure that all children in the womb have their personhood rights recognized…. This is a definite way to see some actual results.”
A ballot measure similar to that in Mississippi was rejected by Colorado voters in 2010. Proponents of personhood efforts plan to try to get the measure on the ballot in Florida, Ohio, Oregon and Indiana in future elections.
Updating with a comment from Alexa Kolbi-Molinas, staff attorney with the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project:
She said the group is hopeful that "voters will reject this attempt to allow government to interfere in the most personal health care decisions of Mississippi’s women and families. However, should the amendment pass, all options are on the table -- including litigation. We will not stand by while thousands of women and families are placed at risk.”
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So if "personhood" begins at fertilization - doesnt this mean that "welfare mothers" that conservatives hate so much can qualify for Aid for Dependent Clildren 9 months earlier? Does it mean these "kids" need to get Social Security numbers 9 months earlier? Qualify for Medicaid? etc etc.
Nuts.
Does this mean a corporation is a person before they are incorporated? and the CEO's can be prosecuted for not going public with a viable company?
When does a Newsvine seeding become an article? At the moment the writer envisioned it, or not until the writer touched pen to paper?
When the tree was felled for the wood!
When the seed for the tree that was felled for the wood took root in the forest!
I'd say when the first cell of algae first evolved into a sexually reproductive plant.
But there is no such thing as evolution anyway.
I'd say when the Big Bang happened.
That's it! Life begins with a Big Bang and a nice long cigarette afterwards. Oh, wait! This thread was off-topic: about creating literature, not life. OK, forget what I just said.
And what of this:
Lawsuits against condom makers.
Why, you might ask?
Well, by preventing fertilization, you are, in effect, aborting a life!
SUE!
Won't someone please think of the semen?
"Every sperm is sacred."
If this law passes, ANY women who is capable of having babies and is sexually active will have to be treated as "two persons" everyday! You do not know that you are pregnant for a couple of weeks generally, so everytime you have sex, whether protected or not (protection does fail) you are potentially two persons!
This must fail. It makes my head hurt thinking of all of the unintended consequences and LAYERS of government that will be involved in my uterus!
This proposed legislation is so ridiculous and over-reaching! Soooo many unintended consequences...can I say that a third time....unintended consequences....
Does this mean they will pay extra at the movies and on airplanes? Though, they will be able to use the Car-pool lane.
evolution in reverse..............
Why does a Conservative who wants Government out of - everything - want it in her uterus?
Why does a liberal who wants a woman to have control of what she does with her body, argue for abortion and argue against prostitution?
LOL DOC 600 you seem to think all liberals are against prostitution. People are against forced prostitution- the number one reason prostitution is forced is because it's illegal. I want prostitution to be legal and regulated to protect both clients and the sex workers. I also want abortion to be legal in come circumstances and be regulated for the same reason- making it illegal will NOT work.
DOC, I think if liberals argue against prostitution, it is more against pimping and exploitation than about the woman herself. I for one think a woman should be free to make whatever deals she wants.
Ooh, this is a hard one. As a rule, I believe abortion is wrong. It is painful to the fetus, and if a woman doesn't want to have a child, then she should be responsible from the beginning and use protection. However, this law does not leave ANY room for extenuating circumstances, and that is dangerous. Ectopic pregnancy, for starters, rape, incest, etc. I would never force a woman who has been raped to carry the child of the rapist. Give her a morning after pill, before the fetus is big enough to suffer from the abortion. And what about miscarriage? What if some blockheaded doctor takes it into his head that the woman did something deliberately, and reports her, and she ends up in jail? No, this law is too ambiguous. Back to the drawing board, Mississippi!
I have yet to hear a "fetus" complain! --- However, I've heard children complain about going hungry because of conservative policies
It's not nearly as bad as the pain conservatives make children suffer though as they grow up with ignorance, bullying in schools, maniacs hating government & gays, or their policies of depriving children of valued educations
Now with this "Parenthood" issue, some of their parents could be sent to jail! -- Great "Family Values" these religious nuts have isn't it?
What about all the sexual predators that rape little girls. What about the slime that work in institutions and rape the mentally or physically handicapped because they can't resist? What about some guy that beats a woman to the point of miscarriage, will they both be charged or just her?
I think you were just repeating my point, TAJ, this law does NOT allow for those cases, and that is why it is wrong. Abortion for convenience is wrong, because it puts the child AND the mother through pain. Better to just prevent it from happening in the first place. As for all the starving and neglected kids, if the government would just make it less expensive for deserving, well-off couples to adopt, there would be fewer of them! I find it strange that it is okay for anyone to have kids, but to adopt one, they have to go through hell. If these unwed mothers knew that there was a safe place for their babies, I would bet more of them would do the right thing and put them up for adoption.
With 7 billion person on this small bittyplanet one should understand how the increase in population effects all of us. One reason that illegals like America is that they can with little effect get on welfare programs. Look at Mexico that exports thousands of their citizens to the USA. I wonder how many conservatives enjoy paying for all of those new American citizen who will automatically go on welfare the second they are born along with their parents, brothers and sisters.
If the non-profit religious right wing churches would pay the cost of caring for all of these children then they could complain about abortions. I wonder how many of these people have large families 15 or 20 children. I hope so, because if not then either the wife is having an yearly abortions or her husband is a Faggot. It seems to me at least those men who are against women having self control of their own bodies are usually guy men (faggots) or rapist at heart. I wonder what many Reps would say if they would be called out.
One could always question the men who are running to replace President Obama if their lack of children in their marriage is because their wives believe in Pro Choice or they are Faggots?
I agrgee that abortion is terminating a pregnancy, and I don't care. The world is overpopulating at an alarming rate. Considering the millions of terminated pregnancies that have happened, where would all these people be working right now? I wish more stupid pregnant teenagers would choose to have an abortion, instead we throw them a baby shower and offer them free everything. I'm sick of the total lack of responsibility and forsight that most of these idiots display when they can't even take care of a housecat or maybe even a plant for that matter. I say we should be encouraging more abortions and promote birth control and stop treating the woman or girl as if she is special for spreading her legs. Take them out of the public schools right away so the other girls aren't encouraged to get pregnant.
Here is a question. President Bush believes that a women has the right of Pro-Choice since his wife only bear 2 female children. He believes that women can control their own bodies, because he is the father of only 2 female children. If he is against abortion then why does he and his wife only have 2 children.
There is one possible answer? His wife had him snap.
That's right... women should be put on trial when they
miscarry... these baby clinic doctors should be charged for murder for every
embryo that doesn't stick when they inject them into some woman... if a woman
swallows, she's a mass murderer and should be tried for crimes against
humanity... if you masturbate then you've just murdered millions if not
billions of potential babies.. you're an evil monster.....
This is @!$%#ing nuts
Freedom people, freedom -- everyone EVEN WOMEN own
themselves, their bodies, their right to choose their destiny... any that
oppose it should be shot in the @!$%#ing face...
This is another republican attempt to impose religious beliefs as law. There is no "person" until the fetus leaves the womb and enters the world. No one has a memory of time spent in the womb. No one remembers anything before their birth or after their death. The "person" doesn't exist until after birth.
Only 20% of fertilized eggs result in the birth of a person. Will mothers unable to carry the "person" to term be prosecuted for the death of the "person" before they are born?
Boy these right wing folk can't figure out much can they? If the absence of a heart beat determines death then the sound of a heartbeat determines life. Since the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat until around the 9th week any abortion before a heartbeat cannot be causing death because there was no life. Ponder that you right wing zealots who don't believe in science.
You can keep the heart beating. You can even keep the blood running without heart for long time. Having a beating heart is not a necessary attribute of a live person. Otherwise we'd declare dick Cheney dead already.
I think a functioning brain is a necessary attribute of a person. When someone is braindead - he's dead. Or when something doesn't have a brain - it's not a person.
Sure does make you wonder who is going to pay for all of these unwanted, mandated babies. I expect the right wing, christian coalition, conservative types have all put their name on a list to adopt, in order of their birth, all of these precious fetuses.
What? This didn't happen? Hmm, well they can always be used as cannon fodder for Rebublican generated wars when they are 18. Or, there is the Libertarian model of" let them die", after they are born of course.
Would somebody please tell me who is going to pay to raise these unwanted kids? I am tired of paying for other people's children. We just reached 7 billion people who we can't feed now. All you people care about is just the "legal aspect of abortion" you could not care less about the girls or the babies. If you did you would be passing laws to support and protect them. Prove me wrong do something for the kids! Bet you won't or better I'm right and you really don't care.
Will fetiform teratoma (parasitic twin) or chimeric twin get legal protection then?
If person's life begins when the particular DNA combination forms, does it never end if the DNA is still kept intact, by means of cell line culturing?
Are monozygotic twins one person or two? Conjoined monozygotic twins?
If a fertilised egg or embrio was frozen, and then implanted after a few years, what will be the legal age of the child when it's born?
The proponents of the measure need to ask themselves these questions.
Do these protections extend to homosexual fetuses? What if a child would be born gay? Do they still count?
Every second, American men murder 1 quadrillion pre-people. This mass genocide cannot continue!
I have yet to hear a "fetus" complain! --- However, I've heard children complain & cry about going hungry because of conservative policies, I've seen them begging on the streets of America! --- Their parents need JOBS conservatives are still voting against!
It's not nearly as bad as the pain conservatives make children suffer though as they grow up with ignorance, bullying in schools, maniacs hating government & gays, or their policies of depriving children of valued educations
Now with this "Parenthood" issue, some of their parents could be sent to jail! -- Great "Family Values" these religious nuts have isn't it?
Unfortunately for the rest of us, Republican's version of person-hood only applies to fetuses, corporations and coma victims. The rest of us are on our own.
life begins when I see some hot babe I want to bone....
It is very sad that the conservatives in Mississippi feel that they dictate to everyone in the state how to live their lives. Especially when a woman's life is at stake. Big Brother appears to be showing its ugly face in this state. That is not what democracy is all about.
Wouldn't this redefine a "person" to include the definition listed? If so, I would think the unintended consequences would eliminate corporations from falling into this category. While I disagree with the definition for the purpose of abortion, I absolutely favor it to remove the personhood status of corporations!!
pro-life ? ha ! ! are you kiddn me !?!?!? whats funny is these fear merchant minion morons ( the same ones who think its ok to kill doctors ) do not give a RATS ASS about you the SECOND you are out of the womb !!!! if they did care EVERY child in this country would not have to EVER worry about health care again !!!!! so take your phony care and try to pedal it somewhere else.....youre not fooling anyone except yourselves !!!! sorry a..wi...s try again !!!!!!!!!!
Personhood, Beginning of life? --- Waving the flag of their false God, as they do with the nation's flag!
Conservatives crap on America's children as they crap on our country!
The only kids that count with conservatives are those born to the inheritance class!
and Jim the only kids you care about are those who can steal from taxpayers.
Kinda funny you are criticizing Jim by saying that he only cares about welfare kids when in your previous response you criticized me for being too focused on the "monetary" value of people and the possibility of costs going up for the medical providers, medical insurance and tax payers.
Gee what happened to life at any costs? I guess it does end at birth!
Fertilization? That would be dumb. Why make a 'morning after' pill illegal? That is ridiculous.
The morning after pill? --- That's the "Abortion Pill" every conservative supported & delivered high praise to Bush 43 for putting it over the counter!
Ready access for America's teenage girls! --- Getting teens primed for life around employers like Herman Cain!
Hey, I am all for condoms and pills. Wait, that kinda sounds wrong. I mean I am all for sex education and birth control. Come on parents, you gotta have the talk even if it feels icky.
Leave Mr. Cain alone! He is already taking a beating in 1 out of 3 forums on msnbc and the vine.
Not only would the morning after pill be illegal, but also many forms of birth control, including IUDs and many forms of the Pill. So not only will it be illegal to abort a fetus, but it will also be illegal to use most of the safe and reliable methods to prevent a pregnancy. This is not only an anti-abortion rights amendment, but also an anti-birth control amendment.