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Subscribe to RSSHouse Speaker John Boehner dismissed Grover Norquist as a "random" person on Thursday despite a week's worth of frequent references to the antitax activist on Capitol Hill.
The name of Norquist, the Americans for Tax Reform president, has been on the lips of just about every political figure who's expressed frustration at his influence over Republicans, and their unflinching resistance to tax hikes in any form.
The reason is Norquist's "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," the manifesto Norquist first drafted in 1986 which opposes increases in taxes. Boehner and another 235 House members have signed the pledge, as have 41 senators. The vast majority of signatories are Republicans, and only six Republicans in each chamber haven't signed the pledge. (All of the GOP's presidential candidates but Jon Huntsman have also signed.)
But today, when asked by NBC News about Norquist's sway over the GOP conference, Boehner downplayed the relationship.
“We are doing everything we are doing to get our economy back to work. It's not often I'm asked about some random person in America," the Speaker said of Norquist.
NBC News: Random person?
"Our focus is about creating jobs, not talking about somebody's personality."
NBC News: What he stands for, is that a positive influence in your conference?
"What he stands for???"
NBC News: Yes, his no tax hikes under any circumstances pledge, is that positive for your conference?
"Listen, our conference is opposed to tax hikes because we believe tax hikes will hurt our economy and put Americans out of work."
Boehner’s reference to Norquist as a “random person” struck many on Capitol Hill as odd; privately, GOP aides will often discuss Norquist’s influence on GOP politics and admit its significance.
The test of Norquist's sway, though, will come in the next few weeks, when the bipartisan, bicameral supercommittee is set to make its recommendations as to how to achieve as much as $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction. Republican members of the panel are under pressure to agree to new revenues through tax reform, a prospect which Norquist has already decried.
Democrats and even some Republicans feel he has undue influence on deficit discussions because Republicans worry if they support any type of tax increase, Norquist’s group will attack them come election season.
Already, proponents of those kinds of reforms have begun to test the fealty of the GOP to Norquist.
Alan Simpson, the former Republican Senator from Wyoming and former co-chairman of the president’s fiscal commission said, “If Grover Norquist is now the most powerful man in America, he should run for president. There's no question about his power. And let me tell you, he has people enthralled. That's a terrible phrase. Lincoln used it. It means your mind has been captured. You're in bondage with a soul.”
Yesterday on the floor of the U.S. Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said of Norquist’s influence on Republicans: “They are in a thrall -- they're in submission to a man whose singular focus keeping taxes low for wealthy, they fear his political retribution.”
That was the second shot Reid had taken at Norquist. Earlier in the week, he said: "My Republican friends, these poor folks, are being led like puppets by Grover Norquist ... They’re giving speeches that we should compromise on our deficit, but never do they compromise on Grover Norquist. He is their leader.”
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Fealty to Norquist trumps the Constitution and of course the voters!
Fear of Norquist is the driving force!
How can they let a pledge to this guy out weigh their oath of office?
If they put Norquist before the American people, then they shouldn't be holding public office.
Let them go work for him instead.
Mr John Boehner you are a LIAR. Try again.
Oh come on now, there is no way anyone, even Republicans, can be stupid enough to believe Boner thinks Grover is just a, "Random Person."
Boehner's toast. In more ways than one.
Go Luke! Holding politicians' feet to the fire just like his Dad did!
"Are u kidding" Mr. Boehner?
If Grover Norquist is just a 'random person', how come 95% of Repubican congressionals signed over/for/to/with him pledging never to raise taxes on the wealthy? Why bother? Why so many?
Only yesterday, Norquist repeated "Just don't raise taxes" to GOP members, with regard to the Super-committee. Pretty important, or not?
It does not help GOP's case: when Mr. Boehner says these GOP members gave up their credibility and their word to the American people. And not just by signing something that supercedes their Oath of Office to this country-- they signed it over to some random individual. Which is worse?
Norquist is not any old lobbyist. He's been forwarding Milton Friedman's philosophies and in cahoots with ALEC/Koch et al for decades.
No, the signing rituals were not random in any way. Mr. Boehner insults our intelligence once again.
Pen: Of course he is a liar a Congressional repug can not open their mouths without a lie coming out. Vote their ass out.
Rick,
Exactly to the point.
Why are they so special that they can get a tax break just for having money in the first place?
Now the GOP clowns that want to be president want the capital gains rate to be zero. It's all backwards.
To use Boehner's phrase "Are you kidding me?!!" Thanks for the laugh Mr. Boehner. Thank you NBC for asking the appropriate questions concerning Congress and the Norquist pledge.
This Boehner caught in the web.
He signed a pledge to this 'Random Person' and his beholden to this pledge!! What if this was a special person? O my....
Boehner knows the score. He is simply denying the influence of Norquist and his group so he can maintain his perceived independence of thought for all of his own lemmings. We all know how important it is for the GOP to seem to be capable of their own thoughts (even if their actions continuously prove otherwise).
Boehner calling Norquist "some random person" is like christians calling Jesus "some random Jew."
So if Norquist is just a random person, I want to know how many other pledges from random people Boehner has signed.
Huh???? Could you be a little more specific here, chilled? I mean, does the constitution require members of congress to pass all proposed tax increases?????
Yeah, he's just some random person that has more control over your party than you do...
Who, Norquist?
Grover controls how people vote on election day? Interesting. Please explain.
Maybe you Libs can get someone like Michael Moore to have the Democrats sign a pledge to raise taxes. Let us know how that works out for you.
Signing this pledge; sounds like it borders on treason to me.
As I wrote yesterday, Grover Norquist is a spider.
Just which species, I'm not sure, but it's a branch of the family tree of the gold bug.
As Anna Molly has aleady noted, Norquist has been around for decades, honing his skill at extracting gold from corporations and business associations to fund rigid right wing ideologues as candidates, using conservatives purists as lobbyists.
Norquist wields immense power, in fact. So far, he's remained away from the excesses of his former mentor, jailbird Jack Abramoff.
Boehner is another fly trapped in Norquist's web - whenever Boehner wriggles, Norquist scuttles over and gives him another jab of the juice.
Nothing would serve the national interest better than using a metaphorical dose of insecticide next November, and kicking all of Norquist's Congressional minions out!
Chilled - that's because Norquist might just be the guy who can get them fired. Remember, the pursuit of personal power is the ultimate incentive here.
JoAnnaSmith1
Who, Norquist?
Yes, Norquist. and how come you sound so surprised? silly nut.
We are doing everything we are doing to get our economy back to work. It's not often I'm asked about some random person in America
The same person that orders you to jump and you answer how high!
Stop the BS. Norquist is the one of the three people that are ruling the Republican Party now; the other two are Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump. Nice three stooges you have going there! Morons! Signing pledges in blood, like boring adolescents playing vampires...
Funny but most cant seem to admit the reason most of these people got elected is BECAUSE they signed the pledge. I happen to agree with the premise. It is not a revenue problem, it is a spending problem. The tax rate as it is right now shuld be plenty sufficient to fund the government if it was structured the way it was intended to be.
But as we continually add un-needed departments that often duplicate those at the state level, allow government unionized labor to extract benefits that are beyond the realm of normal in the private sector, and devise multitudes of giveaways and stimulus that is contrary to free markets, we keep driving the spending up.
And any tax increase at this point would be met with equal and exceeded spending programs.
I voted for the GOP due to their pledge. I expect them to live up to it. And every new spending plan needs to be offset with cuts somewhere to pay for it.
What is borderline treason is to continue to spend like the deficit does not matter. No new taxes or cuts across the board. That is the job of the GOP at the debt commission. I expect them to live up to it.
And this pledge has nothing to do with their oath of office. That oath is to uphold and defend the constitution. I think preventing us from spending ourselves into Oblivion is defending it nicely.
On the other hand, spending us into bankruptcy..... Well this one may have merit for violation of the oath.....
ABO 2012
And even funnier, coming full circle, they will be rejected because they signed the pledge.
(Actually, I thought the Reps won the house in 2010 because they promised jobs.)
I'd like to see the original documents they signed and have the DNA of the blood oath tested to verify it is theirs.
I think that Republican "lawmakers" who take their pledge to Grover Norquist more seriously than their pledge to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America should be charged with treason. This is especially true given Norquist ties to Islamic radicals. Whose side is Norquist really on?
From w_w_w(dot)humanevents.com/article.php?id=46777
Frank Wolf (R.-Va.) showed more courage than most of the members of his party have ever managed to summon: He called out influential Republican power broker and anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist for, among other things, his close ties to jihad terrorists and Islamic supremacists.
Many anti-jihadists have been concerned for years about Norquist’s jihad ties, and his deleterious influence on the Republican Party, but that concern ended abruptly when it turned out that Norquist was close friends with Rick Perry. People who had been on record repeatedly criticizing Norquist for being in bed with Islamic supremacists suddenly discovered that, hey, everyone does it (ignoring the fact that Norquist is closer to Perry than he is to other candidates), and what’s a few Hamas ties among friends, anyway?
But not Wolf. On the House floor, Wolf said of Norquist, "Documentation shows that he has deep ties to supporters of Hamas and other terrorist organizations that are sworn enemies of the United States and our ally Israel.” He pointed out that “around the years 2000 and 2001, Mr. Norquist’s firm represented Abdurahman Alamoudi, who was convicted two years later for his role in a terrorist plot and who is presently serving a 23-year sentence in federal prison.”
Norquist, reported Wolf, “also associated with terror financier Sami Al-Arian , according to Mary Jacoby’s reporting in March 2003, in the St. Petersburg Times. Al-Arian pled guilty in 2006 'to a charge of conspiring to provide services to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), a specially designated terrorist organization, in violation of U.S. law,' and is under house arrest, according to a Department of Justice press release. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s ‘paramilitary wing—the al-Quds Brigades—has conducted numerous attacks, including large-scale suicide bombings,’ according to the National Counterterrorism Center.”
Backhouse -
Please pardon my mistake above - I of course should have attributed the remarks about Norquist's longevity in the sumps of the D.C. sewers to you rather than Anna Molly.
BTW, folk - any of you who want this spider's sordid history can find it in Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared the Nation.
dsdsherm
No new taxes or cuts across the board. That is the job of the GOP at the debt commission. I expect them to live up to it.
If you are saying no revenue and no cuts, how do you pay your mounting debt and still grow the economy?
So some GOPer jumps ship and votes to raise taxes.
The Great and Powerful Norquist then does what?
Oh, you forgot the Koch brothers. Major error IR! You may lose your lefty liberal membership card over that one.
Now here is an article for the right-wing roosters to crow about! Can't wait to hear all of the libbie comments from the snarkers.
So JoannaSmith, does it not bother you that Grover Norquist has ties to Islamic radicals? Does it not bother you that virtually all Republicans elected at the federal and state level have signed pledges to Norquist? Whose side are Norquist and the Republicans really on? Google Grover Norquist Islam if you dare.
What bothers me:
1. The government has a $14.6 Trillion debt;
2. It increased that debt $1.6 Trillion last year, and will continue to do so into the foreseeable future;
3. The government wastes Trillions.
Now Al, what really bothers me is that instead of roting out the fraud, waste and abuse, it just asks for more.
You know, like the junkie it is. Instead of being hooked on Crack, it is hooked on taxes.
Norquist is who and what he is. He, like me, wants lower taxes.
It really is that simple. I pay way too much already.
Just think - only a couple of years ago you had Pelosi in charge - running up huge debt. And what happened to her? Did Norquist get her shellacked?
Was it Norquist who ran all those dems out?
Nope, it sure was not Al.
The pledge provides a great example of what Republicans have become--uncompromising and no Rule of Reason over "purist" ideology, no matter how untrue or how much of a failure the policy has been. And we know it is not a pledge to the American People, rather to their far-right Teapublican base (though some of whom are peeling off in regard to revenue by asking the rich to pay a fairer share).
Here are some examples of this. Let's say there was a Tax Holiday meant to be temporary, like the tax at the gas pump during summer. According to the Norquistian Teapublicans, at the end of summer the Tax Holiday would have to remain, because you can never raise taxes. Not in time of war, not to correct previous cuts that are detrimental to society or even the economy, not to change tax credits or definitions for tax credits (for example capital gains), not even subsidies (tax expenditures) to Big Oil and other companies making record profits that don't need tax breaks. Taxes must always remain the same, or be lowered, but can never be increased again. So theoretically, we could end ALL taxes and by this moronic interpretation taxes would have to remain at zero FOREVER.
The Bush tax cuts were also temporary, not by choice but by congressional rules concerning legislation passed by reconciliation in regard to the budget. The Bush tax cuts were passed in this way because Republicans lacked the votes to make it permanent even though they controlled congress at the time with Bush/Cheney in the White House. They say once there is a tax increase you can never get rid of it--we know that's not true. Taxes have been raised and lowered over history. What we see is once there is a tax cut we can never get rid of IT.
By congressional law, these cuts should have expired but now Teapublicans have signed a pledge, and more important than the pledge (truth be told) they have made a pactto block any improvement to the economy or show any support for the president. This is why Boehner's response is so lame. He's not going to openly admit to the truth that tax cuts made during time of war was the cause of the deficits, and that Teapublicans will not agree to any form of revenue because they are holding out until the 2012 election with hopes that the negative fall out will be on the president and not on them.
Their game has lost support except from their usual far-right low-information base. The thousands of people from all ages, races, and backgrounds who are marching in support of OWS will continue. Every effort made by the president and Dems for the 99% that Teapublicans block will only intensify OWS and will backfire on the GOP/TP.
Yet they are holding firm--amazing. They are counting on the poor economy to win. No matter how poor the GOP/TP presidential candidate, no matter the DO NOTHING Teapublican-controlled congress, no matter how many times Teapublicans reject solutions and refuse to compromise, and no matter the suffering of the American people. Teapublicans gained control of congress in 2010 and they think they're not responsible for anything? Wow, they are idiots.
Obama/Biden -2012!
I hear Grover was out stealing candy from Trick or Treaters last Monday too.
Let's cut the innuendo and character assassination, okay Al?
And anyone can sign any pledge they want. Are those pledges of Nouquist's legally binding? Does Grover sue if someone doesn't abide by "The Pledge"?
You lefties need to get a grip. Next you'll call the GOP reps for treason because they won't raise taxes. Oh, wait . . .
Spanky
Now Al, what really bothers me is that instead of roting out the fraud, waste and abuse, it just asks for more.
If those are what bothers you then you are unreal. The unsustainable tax cuts that has brutalized our economy while creating a great income disparity is what to you.......mr tax welfare?
Prove by showing an independent analysis that shows lowering taxes is what will get us out of this mess. I doubt if you truely understand the meaning of tax cuts and who pays for it. Your proposal is all about WE going China and asking for loans to feed the top 1% gluttonic tax cut addictions.
Is that right spank? Do you seriously believe that?
Please tell everyone about the government benefits you use, abuse and take advatage of... (operative word there being TAKE.)
Are you going to say you don't take anything from the government, or use anything provided by the government? If so, all on this board will call you the same things they are calling Boehner because of his statement; both are untrue, and everyone knows it.
It really is THIS simple: If you and grover and boehner don't want to pay more in taxes, STOP USING ALL government benefits and programs; do away with the stuff that you guys use and take advantage of and our deficit will be reduced. But if you want to continue to drive on our interstate highways, be safe when you fly somewhere, cross rivers on our bridges, have assistance with foreign trade transactions, be relatively safe and secure from terrorist attacks, insure disease outbreaks are monitored and contained and that effective, safe medicin is available as well as safe groceries, and continue to speak English and not be governed by some random dictator from another country = then shut up and pay up.
It takes taxes to operate our government and provide the benefits you and the norquist pledgers take for granted. Tell Grover to stop being so adamantly assinine.
As for your quoted statement above, I believe it is in error... I could be wrong, but if we count up all the things you have used the past year that our government provided or facilitated in some manner, and compare with the amount of taxes you sent in, I'll wager you enjoyed a great buy - you got alot more for what it cost you than had you purchased the same things privately.
keep perspective...
dirp101
I'd like to see the original documents they signed and have the DNA of the blood oath tested to verify it is theirs
---------------
Norquist has stated that he keeps the original signed pledges in his office.
The question that should have been asked was when the speaker of the house signed the no tax hike plede? And if that trumps the pledge they all gave to the citizens of this country..which si far they have not upheld.
dsdsherm
add un-needed departments that often duplicate those at the state level, allow government unionized labor to extract benefits that are beyond the realm of normal in the private sector, and devise multitudes of giveaways and stimulus that is contrary to free markets, we keep driving the spending up.
---------------------
Please list those "unneeded departments". Please also explain those benefits that these workers, who tend to have higher education and tenure than the private has. Do these employees get stock options? 401K matches? Social Security? Nope.
JoAnnaSmith1
----------------
No they could be called out for treason by putting a pledge to a lobbyist before the good of the country. Clinton, Reagan & Bush Sr all raised taxes, because they needed to be raised at the time.
I'm a little left of center, but the more I read about Huntsman the more I like him. I think a lot of moderates would seriously consider him over President Obama, but those on the far right want a Tea Party robot, and refuse to support anyone who dares not pander to them. Jon Huntsman is the only Republican candidate who has the courage to not pretend to be an ultra conservative.
You know the saying "don't retreat, reload?" My FR saying is "don't feed the troll, collapse." No one wants to leave a pack of lies on here for the casual reader to stumble upon, but giving attention to attention-seeking regulars is counter productive. If the post is incoherent, off topic, etc. report it as No Value, and if it targets other members in a needless or insulting way, report it as Inflammatory. Otherwise ignore it. Just sayin'...
Jim M-2801763
I agree with your position, but your statement is partially incorrect. Federal employees can get a match in the Thrift Savings Plan (similar to a 401K), I believe up to 5%. Federal employees are also subject to payroll tax deduction and are eligible for Social Security, and have been since I believe the mid 80's.
JoAnnaSmith "Let's cut the innuendo and character assassination, okay Al? You lefties need to get a grip."
Haha, if you would Google Grover Norquist Islam, you will find the "innuendo and character assassination" comes from those well know lefty commentators and websites such as Michelle Malkin, Free Republic, Jihad Watch, Frank Gaffney, and the Potomac Tea Party Report. And of course, the Congressman who made the statements of "innuendo and character assassination" against Norquist on the House floor was none other than Frank Wolf, a REPUBLICAN from VA.
All those republicans/teabaggres who signed the pledge are all Grovers Whores! All he has to do is squeeze there balls and they do his bidding. Its a shame that we the people don't have the power Grover has. All you republican/teabaggers would cut off your noses in spite of your faces to say I'm wrong!
Uh-uh, Boner. Think of it like joining the Mafia. Politically speaking, you're in for life and you won't get out alive.
Hey Stupid, oops sorry, Not Stupid, Why the vehement anger at Spanky? You have absolutely no idea how much he paid in taxes. Its pretty hard for you to "keep perspective" when you have none, given your lack of information about Spanky. I agree with you that Norquist ought to shut up and go home and take everyone from ATR with him. I disagree with you about the value I receive for my tax dollars. The money I send to the federal government could go much further if they would cut fraud and waste, eliminate useless programs, and cut the bureaucratic crap. It is not a good use of my tax dollars to spend $250,000 to create one job (Stimulus 1) that probably pays about $35,000. If the government is going to trash and waste my money, then I agree with Spanky, I pay too much in taxes for them to disrespect the tax payer by being so lax about their obligation to be good stewards of our resources.
So "Not as stupid as you think" rips Spanky a new @!$%# and shows the flaw in 99% of the GOP party line and not even one response? Awesome. Love the run and hide tactics...
[What bothers me:]
Nobody gives a crap what "bothers" you, Spanky...in case you haven't turned on your TEEVEE today, did you see the protests in Oakland, CA? The Port of Oakland was shut down..."they" are coming for you, Spanky..."they" are in your neighborhood, and will be knocking at your door...be afraid, "counselor"...be VERY afraid...
So Mickey, you think it appropriate to co-opt the OWS movement to threaten violence against an individual citizen? Is that what OWS is about? I thought it was a non-violent movement. So the truth comes out. The labels some have been applying to the OWS folks (thugs, criminals, etc.) are seeming to ring a bit more true now, aren't they?
Joemike: Do you always paint with such a broad brush? Conservatives have been calling these people degenerates and criminals since day one without a hint of history to support it.
Funny base, I thought I was painting with a toothpick. I was merely asking Mickey if he thought it appropriate to suggest that the OWS was going to show up at Spanky's house and perpetrate some violent act. If Mickey wasn't suggesting violence then why would Spanky need to "be VERY afraid"? Also, I'm pretty sure those fires in Oakland weren't started by the police.
[So Mickey, you think it appropriate to co-opt the OWS movement to threaten violence against an individual citizen?]
Nobody is threatening anyone...if you have been following along, which apparently you haven't, you would know what I am referring to regarding Spanky in my post.
[I thought it was a non-violent movement.]
It is...the Oakland Chief of Police acknowledged that "anarchists" were responsible for the violence.
[So the truth comes out.]
Yes, yes it has...people are fed up and aren't going to take it anymore.
What about you, Joe...aren't YOU fed up?
The OWS people could just go all Teabagger and claim that their people were never the ones doing anything remotely related to the unethical behavior. Of couse we actually have teabaggers shouting the racist slogans. As to OWS peoples starting fires....
"These aren't the droids you are looking for"......"move along".......
Nice try Boehner.
Americans will get there country back when all politicians that sign oaths to any one or anything that they hold in higher regard than there oath of office and to the American people are voted out.. only when America votes these traitors to our country out of office will America have a chance
He doesn't remember the name of the man he made his solemn pact with? Does he remember that he works for the people and not this random person? What a boner. And a liar.
And he could be charged with treason. Anyone who put this contract they signed above their oath to do the job for the entire country could be.
They are stopping upkeep and improvements to needed highways, bridges etc across America. Our entire infrastructure is falling apart along with our economy.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the same goal of the terrorists?
...who has got the GOTP pledge signers by the balls.
Spanky, get your facts right. It's $14.9 trillion.
And if you think you pay too much taxes, that's fine. Just cut a check for your share of that debt, and after that one-time payment your taxes can go down.
Actually, if I needed additional proof that you are indeed an attorney, that line of reasoning you presented above may be it. We owe too much, so let's pay even less toward servicing that debt... Hmmm, if the law gig ever stops working for you, maybe you could get work as a financial advisor.
I can see you telling clients, "eh, don't worry about that $100,000 you owe the credit card company. Just send this less every month. Mastercard can find somewhere to cut business expenses to make up the difference."
Very interesting AND very telling that this topic isn't remaining on MSNBC home page for people to read and comment on. Very interesting indeed. I will check out the other news orginizations and see if they are leaving it up for discussion.
Used to be that you could google Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs and get a low down on Norquist with the Abramoff and Bush ties. Can't even do that anymore! Just how censored is our news???
I too believe it is treasonous for the Republicans who signed that pledge to honor it rather than do what's best for America....the 99% and place significant taxes on the top 1-5% and corporations. I also believe that should they (signers) not immediately vote to put Americans back to work AND tax the wealthy we should see about impeaching and charging them all!
Boehner may want to downplay and put all the spin he can muster on Norquist but the bottom line is they are undermining the 99% welfare and declaring war on us.
Watch Obama because I don't believe his hands are totally clean either and let's see if he imposes a token tax or go back to the way it was prior Reagan.
There, I fixed it for Obama.
Al to further your post at 1.25
There is a photograph, in fact, of Al-Arian with Bush in March 2000. In 2003, Al-Arian copied Norquist on an e-mail to The Wall Street Journal regarding an op-ed suggesting ties to Islamic Jihad. Al-Arian was arrested in 2003 for racketeering and conspiracy to commit murder. He pleaded guilty to one count of supporting terrorism and was sentenced to a fifty four month prison term. Al-Arian was also the North American leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The FBI’s close surveillance was scheduled to end by presidential order on September 11th.
Bottom line is Nordquist is only one person removed from terrorists.
And these Republicans are stupid enough to sign a pledge with this guy.
If I were President Obama here's what I would do today before I ate lunch.
Insist that the Justice dept. investigate the close financial ties Nordquist’s Muslin Free Market institute that he and GWB started , and determine if theres enogh facts to bring Nordquist up on Treason. Associates of this group have been tied to the financing of 911; then leak it to the press. Right about when Nordquist is making his case Instruct a congressional hearing and subpoena all who signed the Nordquist pledge and let them defend to the American public "Why that pledge is more important than protecting the United States and it's constitution"
@joemike404 - #1.46
In response to your questions:
I don't have anger at Spanky - awe maybe, that he can come off with some incredible positions on some issues...and maybe some frustration at his adamant shortsitedness and deflection from the topics...
anyway, if YOU re-read my post, I stated that I did NOT have accurate, specific details regarding the items you talk about, but wager that what I stated is accurate; same goes for you too. That, my friend, is called maintaining proper perspective, contrary to what you apparently thought you read in my post.
As for the major point you try to advance - that from the perspective you stated you pay too much - please allow me to point out that your complaint is about management and administration which has deverloped over 225 years and seems to compound exponentially each year (so it certainly can not be alleviated in just 3 years, particularly without cooperation from "the other side of the aisle") and your complaint IS NOT related to the percentage nor amount of taxes you pay.
I think I understand the argument you are trying to make, but it is a very weak position. Therefore, I stand by my original post: If you truly think you pay too much tax, forfeit ALL government benefits, programs, and advantages and try to buy them on your own.... I think you will find what we have is much better than what the Republican and Tea parties promote in their platform talking points.
Again I say: keep proper perpectives.....
Golly gee whillikers. Did Boehner say the Grover was a "Random Person?"
Norquist a random person. Naw, I don't think so. Boehner is only Speaker of the House. The Grover is the tap and funnel for big-big-big cash hogs.
Better be careful, Speaker of the House Boehner, or you'll end up sweeping out the bars again.
or maybe running a tanning salon...
Well, barry-barry and Paul S, at least he won't be lonely in his new work, he'll have Obama as a co-worker after Nov 2012!
Sure OK - spider - I'll bite--
Just who is there instead.......?
Your choice of candidates is very slim and even the TPers dont want "just anybody" anymore.
I can't figure which is worse --- Crying Speaker Tan Man making such a stupid statement or if he thinks the public is stupid enough to believe it.
Boener is such an idiot, please vote this Do Nothing Congress out of office!!!! Obama/Biden 2012
It appears to me that Grover Norquist is the owner of the Speaker and most of the House and part of the Senate.
I hope this gets more peoples attention about Norquist. He is basically the string puller for a wanna be shadow government, and so far he is doing a pretty good job of it. There is no doubt Congress is in his pocket.
Beware - they are aiming for permanent power.
Nice try at the Jedi mind trick Boehner.........
I'm also just some random person, yet I can't get Boehner to sign MY pledge to the American people to stop taking shady campaign moneys from special interest groups!
Yes, totally random - anyone can get any GOP member to sign any pledge, saying anything, anytime.
Today, 40 Republican asked the supper committee to consider new revenue. Now John is calling Norquist "just a random person". What's up GOP/TP? Feeling the heat? I betcha, there's some kind of movement......99%
There is more to come on this stories.
Just bring enough cash.
Boehner is a complete liar.
YEP, The OWS movement is gettin' to the repugs! Watch out Boener, We're coming for YOU! Oh, And your buddies TOO!!! 99%
How can any representative or senator sign a pledge about anything with anyone while in office? That is counter to the objective of holding office which is to NOT pledge to any one person or group but to the people as a whole. The number of representives and senators that signed and the devotion they have shown to that pledge is fairly well totally unbelievable. Good Bye democracy in this country! Boehner you have already rolled over so many times, your suit is totally soiled.
sandy,
I'll play a little devil's advocate here. I've seen the alleged form the reps signed, and it is a pledge to the taxpayers of the district represented. Exiting my devil's advocate role, I have to wonder why a witness signature is required, and why the form is required to be sent to Grover.
Yeah - there's a movement all right. The Senate is once again stinking up the place.
If he's such an insignificant random person, why have nearly all the GOP reps signed a pledge to him? Seems like he must have some significance to you guys.
Or would you be interested in signing a pledge to another random person? ME. I want you all to pledge to stop acting like children and pledge to work with your opponents to solve problems.
Whaddya think? Any takers?
Nope? That's what I thought.
Hey Boehner - if you GNOPER's are working so hard - why do you only work like 3 days a week/2 weeks a month....and didn't you promise JOBS JOBS JOBS just a year ago???
Yea ....that Motto thing was just SOOOO important...right at the top of everyone's to do list....not....
WHERE ARE THE JOBS BOEHNER?
Sorry they pledge allegiance only to Grover and the uber rich people in his interest group. Nice try though!!
The Repub's moto should be "In Grover We Trust"
Boehner who?
The real GOTP God is the almighty dollar.
What would Grover do???
If he is a random person then Obama should demand that they all publically release themselves from the pledge that they signed to his organization. Elected representatives should not sign any pledge to anyone other than the American PEOPLE.
Exactly StillHopeful. Only six republicans in each house did not commit treason by signing this pledge. Signing this pledge to one "random" person cancels out the oath of office taken by these scumbag traitors. Don't even bother with committees or show up for legislation that has anything to do with any tax of any sort. A pledge to a random person trumps the oath of office and any perception that they are there to represent the people of the United States. Teabaggers, Koch-Sucking Republicans all, you voted for these traitors, that makes YOU traitors to our country as well.
Eric, really dude, up the meds. Signing a pledge (not legally binding BTW) is NOT an act of treason and those of us who may have voted for republicans are not traitors. The pledge does NOT trump their oath of office. We disagree with you, that's all. I don't believe that raising taxes is the solution to our problems if the government is going to keep spending as though the source of money were limitless. The government is out of control on so many levels, all branches, both parties. The pledge isn't the thing that makes the signatories oppose tax increases. They signed the pledge because they oppose increasing taxes. I don't think we can solve our fiscal problems without raising taxes, but it infuriates me that the governments wants to raise my taxes without taking any real steps to control spending. The pledge is not the problem.
Boehner is saying, "like the caught john," the deal is mutual and consensual. No money or favoritism was involved. Like the caught John though, he is a liar.
Hey Joe, didn't you get the memo? Disagreeing with King Obama and his positions is now treason.
Now, sarcasm mode off. It disgusts me that people accuse other people of treason for a difference of opinion but support people like Bill Ayers who bragged about traitorous activities. You liberals do realize Obama started his ascent to power in the home of Bill Ayers right?
Personally, I think blind adherence to any ideology is reprehensible, but rarely traitorous.
JoeMike404
I don't think we can solve our fiscal problems without raising taxes, but it infuriates me that the governments wants to raise my taxes without taking any real steps to control spending. The pledge is not the problem.
I avoid getting personal in these posts but I gotta call you on this.
a. You think we need to raise taxes to solve our fiscal problems.
b. The pledge (to not raise taxes) is not the problem.
c. The government has no spending controls.
a+b+c = The government (both branches, both parties) must institute spending controls (amount, type, etc. not specified) before we get around to solve our fiscal problems. However, since the folks who signed the no tax increase pledge control the federal spending and are not about to give up the earmarks and stimulus checks for their own districts, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE.
JoeMike, you need to read your post before you hit the go button. I hate to see a product of the Oregon education system appear to be incoherent.
Loyal - Read my post just fine thanks. My point was that Eric is blaming the chicken when the egg is the problem. The people who signed the pledge already were opposed to raising taxes. The pledge is just politics, its doesn't change and didn't cause their position on taxes. And since I believe that we cannot solve our fiscal problems without BOTH controlling spending and increasing taxes, it is most likely that we will have to change the people in Washington controlling both.
And what on earth makes you think I'm a product of the Oregon education system? I was educated on the east coast and currently live in Texas.
I don't think John Boehner is being completely honest with the American people or with voters. Grover Norquist is not just a "random person." His organization and his anti-tax ideology is the driver behind every aspect of Republican fiscal policy and of what Congress passes or does not pass as related to taxation. This statement asks American to suspend belief and to forget the GOP's public devotion to Norquist and his reckless agenda. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
Anyone who trusts House Speaker John Boehner is complete idiot..... John is the true definition of a modern day CARPET BAGGER..... The Tea Party has convinced me to vote for President Obamma by the action they continue to take..... Norquist 1st - American People Last.....
Not only is Norquist a standup comic, he is the biggest joke around. His influence fars surpasses his worth. He has managed to convince a gullible segment of the population to adhere to an idea that is destroying our country.
pluse Turdquist is a terrorist...do a bing search on that
Skip,
The gullible segment of the population are the ones who refuse to think the deficit matters. And this is not due to an undertaxed society, it is due to overspending.
Do you realize the deficit in October this year alone amounts to $650 for every man woman and child in the US? You cant raise taxes enough to cover this, and tax increases should not be considered until spending is cut to a level that is manageable. The issue is every time the deficit gets attention or a big spending plan comes through, the Dem answer is increase taxes. When the only real answer is cut spending. The GOP signed this pledge as they realize this is the root issue. And many concerned citizens happen to agree with them.
Government spending has escalated out of control. It started with Bush and BHO is compounding it at an alarming rate. And even his jobs proposal is to do what? Increase government employees! When a family is on hard times, they cut expenses on everything that is not absolutely necessary. When this administration is on financial hard times, they just spend some more. And in most instances it is on items we certainly could do without. Then they impose more rules to hinder the possibility of future increased cash returns from business. And increasing taxes would further hinder the future.
ABO 2012
dsdsherm, The gullible people are the TeaPublicans that voted your stupid "DO NOTHING CONGRESS" into office...they ran on the platform of creating JOBS, but where are they? You're all a bunch of liars and you are FAILING the American people, your Congress, Boener, Mitchell and crew have blocked every JOBS bill attempt Obama has put forward!!! The republicans are the GULLIBLE ones here...Vote them all out come election day, they're USELESS!!!! OBAMA 2012
We Are The 99% and You are going down!
Like DIck "Deficits don't matter" Cheney? Point taken!
Norquist is not random, he is the flim flam man!
reply to dsdsherm
You are partially correct. GWB blew the surplus Bill Clinton had piled up by starting an unnecessary war and cutting taxes, but but he didn't start the party. Saint Ronnie Reagan's Economic Advisor, Bill Laffer convinced him that "Deficits Don't Matter". St. Ronnie proceeded to use his political capital to slash tax rates to grow the economy (and the star wars program).
Total federal debt tripled during the Reagan Administration.
One of the current GOP candidates who is down but not out, is proposing a massive tax cut (the 20 20 plan) that will sent the deficit skyrocketing. Questioned about the obvious budget deficit implicit in his plan, his response was "I don't worry about it".
So, if I am correctly following the GOP Economic Philosophy, Budget Deficits Matter when they arise from social programs or economic stimulus initiatives but Budget Deficits Don't Matter when they arise from tax cuts or military initiatives. Moreover, once the deficit becomes uncomfortable, the only way to address it is to cut social programs and eliminate stimulus initiatives.
Please help me out here if I am missing something.
dsdsherm
My bad. Eric in Oregon's post was right above another post I made at 3:00 AM cuz I wasn't sleepy. My apology for the geographical transplant. But the Oregon people are generally pretty cool.
We are probably close to agreement. My point is that deficits are a serious part of national fiscal policy and should be addressed in a factual manner. It is pointless to demonize "bad" deficits and sanctify "good" deficits based on the political motivations for the origin of the deficit.
Tax and fiscal policy should always be used judicially to address management of the US economy, the US budget and US debt. Posturing that "C" is a prerequisite to "T" is simply an argument that "I am right and you are wrong and neither of us is going to do anything about it."
Yes, a rational person would observe that tax and fiscal policy must be addressed simultaneously. An ideologue will say "Until I get mine, you get nothing".
Now this is really funny. A Random Person??? We are committed to jobs - but spent a day voting on "In God We Trust"? So where are the jobs Mr. Boehner??????
I generally agree with the argument that raising taxes gives congress more money to spend...however
I also think treating all of this unearned income like some special income from god and taxing it less than someone who sweats for his check is unfair and unpatriotic...those goobers taking phantom money, investing in phantom assets and then claiming they made a bunch of money should pay a bunch of money for playing with the phantom money in the first place...those hedge funds and executives hiding their riches as assets held for a year and claiming a 15% rate is simply dumb economics...they didn't create a single product, service or job...
Rick the reason why the republicans and the people who vote for them believe in giving tax breaks to people with lots of money has to do with religion..thats right r e l i g i o n....walk into any evangelical church on the 'lords day' and you will find out quickly how in love with money "christains' really are.
Call your GOP Senators today.
They are voting on the infrastructure part of the JOBS BILL.
BUILD BABY BUILD
Hell, it don't do any good to call these sob's cause they're all in bed with the 1% Rich! Just get the word out to vote'em out in 2012!
I think any member of congress who signs a pledge written by a single individual is not fit for office. They are there to serve all the people. This just once again shows how money has corrupted the system in this country and the powers that be are all for it.
dodiny:
While I agree that these guys/gals should NOT do this, in a way, it's more transparent than what's going on with "Citizen's United." They're all loyal to the lobbyists and donors. But they don't sign a pledge and announce it.
At least with Norquist's pledge we know who the scoundrels are.
Bilweeler,
You are spot on. I say get ALL special interests out of politics - corporations, unions, lobbiests.... No Social Security Number, no campaign contribution!
By the way: Who is Grover? I did not see a Grover on any ballot. Why should Grover be able to block the will of almost 70% of the American voters? Random person my.... Mr Boehner where are the jobs?
Boehner is speaking with a forked tongue --- He says Norquist has no power, yet he follows his demands the most part & echos the same rhetoric
"Stuck in the Middle Again!" between fringes of the right wing --- Any "Fair or Flat Tax Plan" they have is not only a Higher Tax" on most,, It's a "New Tax" on some states!
Hey, I'm a "random person"! Does that mean I can get the GOP to sign a pledge to give me $1M every year?
SWEET!!!
Even though they "believe" that any tax hikes hurt the economy, there is no statistical data to prove it. Taxes are at historic lows and we are not seeing growth. Taxes were much higher in the 50's when we had a manufacturing explosion and during the Reagan and Clinton years taxes were raised and there was an expansion of the economy.
Reagan's massive tax cuts led to an unprecedented economic boom in the 80s, DOG.
You are moonbat delusional.
Actually, it was the government's massive spending on defense that helped the economic boom and the annual deficits averaged 4.2% of GDP after inheriting an annual deficit of 2.7% of GDP in 1980 under president Carter.
Defense spending was his stimulus package.
Uh, Bobbers, Reagan raised taxes 11 times during his presidency.
In addition Ol Yellow and Da Noid, buying on credit was encouraged and became the norm under Reagan.
-- Go ahead and purchase that shiny new BMW, you're a Yuppy (A young city or suburban resident with a well-paid professional job and an affluent lifestyle) or a DINK (duel income, no kids). You'll be able to pay it off.--
That economic boom Bob lotsanumbers is referring to had more to do with credit purchasing that increased demand than did tax cuts.
Wrong. Deregulation led to the boom, which led to the S&L crisis and bailout... sound familiar yet?
Moonbat delusional is thinking that every public paycheck cut is going to go to some greater capitalist good.
Moonbat delusional is thinking that wars can be fought with no budget to pay for them.
Moonbat delusional is thinking that the guy that put the cost of the wars back on the budget is the one that spent the money.
Moonbat delusional is thinking that ANY of the rocket scientists running for the GOP nod could do a better job with the bucket of S**T Obama started with, or could improve the next 4 years.
"Uh, Bobbers, Reagan raised taxes 11 times during his presidency."
Reagan's massive tax cuts..were massive. Reagan did raise taxes in small increments later in his Presidency , but they were relatively small, nowhere near the scale of his tax cuts.
You Nanny State worshippers are clueless.
Eat your cookies then off to bed Bob.
Great, lets go back to the Reagan tax rates because they worked so well.
listen: I agree 100%, lets reinstate the tax code, as it was in 1986, the last time it was "reformed."
The debt under the Reagan administration went from about 700 billion to roughly 3 Trillion due to his conservative tax policies. Nobody seems to remember that when the use Reagan as an example.
Bob allot of bull poop comes out of your mouth every time you open it. I bet its hard to find a clean place to sit at your home.
I've got an idea.
GOP says that raising taxes results in lost jobs - that's been their talking point for months now.
Ok, fine.
Let's cut taxes on those who's income is derived from the production of goods and services - physical, tangible items that are produced in the US by Americans.
Correspondingly, let's take the amount of that tax cut, and add it to those who derive their income purely from intangible items, such as paper (investments, trading, etc.)
There! By tying a lower tax rate to production of physical goods, you can actually create jobs - since in order to achieve lower and lower tax rates (let it scale!), you have to produce more and more. It'll put Americans back to work (as the goods must be produced in the US by Americans to qualify).
Effectively, the overall tax rate won't change - meeting the requirement to not 'raise' taxes, yet it will be revenue positive, which helps to reduce the deficit.
Alas, it'll never happen.
Exactly what the President's jobs bill does - you know... the one being obstructed by Republicans right NOW!
But we will still need added revenue to dent/slow down/reduce our national debts, no two ways about it.
Digital
Not a bad idea but it is not original. The US Tax Code does have a Domestic Production Deduction (DPD).
The DPD provides a bonus tax deduction to lower the tax bite on companies that employ workers to make a things in the United States. Qualifying domestic production includes the manufacture of tangible personal property; the production of computer software, sound recordings and certain films (IRS Section 199).
Of course, this provision is buried in the voluminous Tax Code that the GOP candidates are so anxious to throw out.
Speaker of the House John Boner "…stood erect as he "dismissed Grover Norquist as a 'random' person…" "on Thursday."
"But today, when asked by NBC News about Norquist's sway over the GOP conference…" Boner appeared to be dysfunctional and downplayed the copulatory relationship.
Too bad my comment #16 isn’t directly above or below a Viagra or Cialis ad. It would have added an even more penetrating thrust to it.
Good one....for a friday.
Thanks
Boehner like Obama and most on the Hill are nothing but Globalists that will do anything to sell America off to other nations and the big bankers!
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I am the Great and Powerful Speaker of the House! Come off it, John. When you sell your soul to the devil, you have to pay the price.
So the majority of Republicans sign a pledge that may or may not represent the majority of their constituents desires and Boehner dismisses it as irrelevant. When is misrepresentation of the people's will treasonous? This is a perfect example of special interests that are out of control. I hope this won't be forgotten come election time. That remains to be seen.
Things change in the world and our country rapidly, and to back oneself into a corner like this is inexcusable for an elected official regardless of what special interests are involved. They should always have the option of doing what is right for the nation and not what they have promised a special interest group.
For Boehner to deny the influence of this is also him assuming the voting public is clueless.
OUwhine "...him assuming the voting public is clueless". Obviously, Boehner is floundering under pressure. But it is the extreme right and their financiers who are hoping that by this time next year, Americans will be hurting so badly, they will vote for anything and or anyone! We can either fight or succumb! The coming year will be brutal. People will have to make personal choices under a constant barrage of vitriolic political campaigning. As a nation, we will become more divided and out of the chaos the only winners will be the global corporations/extreme right elite, the masters over a subservient nation. Wake up, America!
Finally our political system is starting to work again. These lemmings are starting to throw their pledges under the bus and this clown Nordquist along with them. In reality, while foolish, these republicans are no fools. They can read a poll, sort of, and are finally starting to realize that unless they get their crap together and start working for the people they will be toast next November. You heard the headline here first. "Republicans cave on tax increases".
JohnnyB, That would be the right thing for them to do but I don't believe they're that smart...they just keep digging their own grave deeper and deeper!
John's in denial.
MSNBC progressive cheerleader Luke Russert,
When is the last time you asked a Democrat about their fealty to union thug Richard Trumka? Or teachers unions? or Jon Corzine?
The next time will be the first time.
Republicans oppose tax increases because it is bad policy, has nothing to do with Grover Norquist
Then why did almost every single Republican sign something he authored?
They signed it based off of who wrote it.
Hey Bob, Jon Corzine is a criminal just like other bankers and wheeler-dealers on Wall Street. (I worked with plenty of bankers that knew what they were doing with house loans was at the least immoral). The problem with the teachers union is that if they give an inch, they are assumed weak (as a former teacher, lots of us wanted to get rid of the poorer teachers, but only a few of the most qualified actually teach and the bottom 10 percent make all seem like less).
If real middle class income does not increase substantially, this economy will never recover. The rich only spend so much and pass the rest on to the next generation. The middle class can not spend more when their real incomes have been almost flat for thirty years. Those massive house loans of ten years ago sucked many of the last of them under.
Thank you DR.NO
"Bob" really??? Tax cuts and dergulation worked so well under GWB!
Bob: assume you are 100% correct, does that make anyone signing their souls away to Grover Norquist right in doing so ?
Bob: Yeah, right as in "don't think so".
Please show me the facts. Democrats signed pledges to these people. Isn't that what this discussion is about. Signing a pledge. Not about fealty, but actually signing a pledge. Divert! That's what you are about and most of your the Republican/Tea Party .
Committed to jobs!!!!! What a joke, Boehner is a part of the biggest do nothing house in American history. He and his cronies seem to think the American people are blind, we all know that Norquist has a big influence in republican politics. It should be a crime for any public servant to sign a pledge to one group over another. the pledge to protect and defend the Constitution was not enough. At a time when the world is becoming a more dangerous place and cost of living is increasing we have the Boners making two faced speeches. I wonder did he get Norquist's OK to make that statement.
Boehner is only committed to the tanning salon and golf course lobbies.
Dang, I thought it was whiskey and women! Silly me!
Norquist did not fail to pass a US budget for three years, he did not fail to act on legislation because he can not... and can not vote on laws sent to the Senate by the House. Fifteen House bills lanquish without debate nor a vote not because of Norquist but the Senate leadership... who should be held accountable. I could care less about anyone that does not have a vote like Norquist....but I do care when some have a vote and do not get to exercise it whether up or down.
It is the law a budget is to be passed and it when it does not happen, then the DOJ should enforce the law and serve all Senate Leaders notice to appear in court to explain. Why does it take three years without a budget for someone to say, "Follow the law as you have sworn to do and pass a budget".
One word Filibuster! You need 60 votes to pass anything in the Senate, period. That does not fit in a Democracy.
Maurice,
As long as the filibuster is the norm we no longer have a democratic congress. We have Teabag congress. That's not what the American people signed up for.
Ya get what ya vote for! How about talking with Boehner, he is in charge of all that. Ask him to send those 15 bills with something of substance instead of trying to undermine previous very good legislation. Maybe you don't what those bills are about that you would bring them up as something worthy of note!
400 bills languished in the Senate when Democrats were really working for the benefit of all Americans. But the GOP spread so much hate against Nancy Pelosi and Democrats that kept their great work from getting done. So republicans watching Fox were gullible enough to vote for so many corporate backed tea party republicans with the intelligence of a flea. They have made the House worthless and most republicans in our government are as well. Mitch McConnell of the Senate is a real sorry example of rigid adherence to corporate lobbyists and Grover Norquist.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in the fact that Grover Norquist has the same name as a blue muppet and yet he pulls the strings on Republicans on the issue of taxes. That's not the Super Grover I grew up knowing. Because if anyone could solve the tax problem in this country, "This looks like a job for, Suuuupppeeerrr GGrrrooovvverrrrrr!!!"
:)