Cain’s latest interview is with -- of all people -- Ginni Thomas

Truth is indeed stranger then fiction! lol

Yesterday the 'real' Hermie let us know he is an arrogant, angry, self-absorbed ass who is in NO way competent to hold the office of President!

Hermie's actions since Monday have done more to confirm that then any amount of leaks & scandal! ;o)

Looks like Barry and his campaign staff have decided that he has nothing positive to run on for the 2012 election. With the fact that the 2008 “Hope and Change” line has been fully exposed as the BS of just another full of sh!t, lying, politician. And his signature “accomplishment”, his ClunkerCare HCR, is becoming more hated every day as the American people see what it really means to them. And with the slow-bama economic recovery being pronounced on life support yesterday by Ben Bernanke projecting slower growth and high unemployment running through at least 2014. I guess I can see why they feel that way.

So, given that he has to run on his record, how best to present it to the American people??

Answer: Avoid it and go negative on his opponent big, early, and often and try to pretend the dirt isn’t sticking to Barry.

As I said above: just another full of sh!t, lying, politician.

I just “hope” the American people don’t buy it and vote for “change” at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

From Politico:

Obama's style: Go negative, stay clean
By: Ben Smith
November 3, 2011 04:40 AM EDT

If the catchphrase weren’t already taken, you could call Barack Obama’s signature style of negative politics “leading from behind.”

But as the president’s re-election team begins in earnest to attack Mitt Romney, Obama faces one of the most difficult tests of his political career: to tear down Romney without getting a single smudge of dirt on his own shirtfront - a trick he has performed deftly in previous races.

The attacks on Romney – described Sunday by White House counselor David Plouffe as a man with “no core”— represent the White House expectation that he will be the Republican nominee and an early attempt to build a contrast between his character and Obama’s. Democrats hope to to wound the appealing, relatively moderate Romney at a moment when he is trying to build true rapport with the electorate by disqualifying him in the eyes of key swing voters and convincing them that Obama is the only one they can trust.

The early salvos are also familiar moves in a strategy that has worked in each of the four federal campaigns Obama has run: disqualifying character attacks from aides or outsiders, executed brutally as Obama himself floats above the fray.

This is race warfare and the fact that the RNC Chair said on Today that the “He (the President) came to America…” is the Right’s attempt to continue to paint him as un-American.

I've asid it before and will say it again...

Herman Cain is the Right Wing attempt to paint black people as illegitimate and inferior in thought all the while pandering to the Republican base. Herman Cain is bought and paid for. He is fulfilling his mission, "Save our image from being the racist party Herman. We'll make you rich. You may appear as an idiot, and that's what we want, but we'll make you a very wealthy man."

Herman Cain is being used as the inferior-thinking-black man that relates to the simple thinking Right Wingers. He has failed his mission. I can't believe people have been giving this a pass in the media. This is race as well as class warfare.

The Right Wing is one big fraud that needs to be exposed for what it is.

President Obama is so ahead of these guys, they're playing checkers while he's winning a game of chess against Bobby Fischer.

This is while every media and news source will try to pin something to President Obama to try to make this as close a race as possible. The Republicans are a bunch of clowns.

The Infrastructure/Rebuild provision of the AJA is coming up for a vote. It's full of common-sense jobs proposals for hiring hundreds of thousands of people, putting us back to work right away rebuilding and repairing bridges, roads, airports and railways.

___________________________________________

MORE "shovel ready jobs"??????

Even Barry doesn't believe that BS any more.

LMAO@U!!!!!!

"Are you kidding me?!?" - House Speaker John Boehner reacting to Obama's suggesting that Americans are better off than they were four years ago.

Source: http://thehill.com/video/house/191331-house-speaker-boehner-are-you-kidding-me

Obama 2012 - "Are you kidding me?"

"U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Tom Donahue: “A national infrastructure bank is a great place to start securing the funding we need to increase our mobility, create jobs, and enhance our global competitiveness.” (March 15, 2011).

AFL-CIO: “A broad coalition of union, business, government and academic leaders has called for creation of a National Infrastructure Bank (NIB) that not only would propel the rebuilding of the nation’s crumbling infrastructure, but also would be a major job-creating engine.” (January 22,2010)."

Speaking of job creation - how about Governor Krispy Creme's MASSIVE tax gift to those who LEAST need it?

Imagine you are a New Jersey job seeker (one of 418,000 unemployed in the state as of September, 2011, according to the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development) and you read in the news that a firm will be getting a state subsidy to hire 175 new workers. You would be thrilled to see those new job opportunities in the state, right?

But, in the case of Goya Foods, Inc., only nine truly new jobs are being created.

Nine.

Of the other 166 “new” workers, 66 would be moved from Goya’s location in Bethpage, New York and 100 already work for Goya as contractors based in Secaucus, according to documents from the state Economic Development Authority (EDA). So these “new” workers are actually existing employees.

“There are a lot of ways to create nine jobs that don’t involve spending $80 million or more dollars,” said NJPP president Deborah Howlett. “At its essence the state policy is choosing corporations over people.” In addition to $80 million from the state, Goya could receive a property tax break from Jersey City

Several studies have shown that trying to entice corporations to bring jobs to a state via tax credits is a fool’s errand. As the Economic Policy Institute and the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center found, “a growing body of research suggests that state and local tax cuts and incentives cannot create jobs in a cost-effective manner.” Citizens for Tax Justice calls corporate tax incentives and business exemptions “deeply flawed as policy,” noting that tax revenue “won’t just be flushed down the toilet — the money raised will help to fund the social and physical infrastructure that businesses need to thrive, including police, fire protection, and education.”

Even a top aide to Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) admitted that corporate tax breaks won’t lead companies to hire. And there’s no reason to think it will work any better in New Jersey.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/02/359776/new-jersey-goya-nine-jobs/

JiA: MORE "shovel ready jobs"??????

Obama: "That's not putting people back to work. I trust in God, but God wants to see us help ourselves by putting people back to work," the president said.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-presses-republicans-bridge-scheme-151914720.html

Now isn't that special. Now Obama says he has God on his side. That's confusing Obama's base voters, they thought Obama was God.

Cain and Perry. This is the best the Republicans have to offer? Unbelievable. Meanwhile Romney just sits back and smiles, though he'll never be elected.

And Huntsman, their best candidate, never gets a thought. Idiots.

Obama in 2012.

When will Hermie blame himself?...

Oh, I forgot.....Never!

...as usual, 'shoot the messanger'.......

I did it but they should not tell on me!

'Shovel-ready' may have been a mistaken term a couple of years ago, but the jobs and investments for NOW and for the future of America in this provision are concrete and well-endorsed across the board. America once had the best Infrastructure in the world. Keeping it up-to-date and safe for all has traditionally been bi-partisan.

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said recently, "roads and bridges are not partisan in Washington." Paul Ryan said recently, "You can't deny that infrastructure does create jobs."

"Are you kidding me?!?" - House Speaker John Boehner reacting to Obama's suggesting that Americans are better off than they were four years ago.

Maybe, Mr. Speaker, you should go ask the "job creators" (see also: RICH PEOPLE) if they're better off than they were four years ago. I bet you the answer is "YES".

Obama's ceaseless efforts to increase Americans dependence on government is bearing good results.

"Food stamp rolls have risen 8.1% in the past year, the Department of Agriculture reported,"

Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/11/01/some-15-of-u-s-uses-food-stamps/?mod=wsj_share_twitter

Terrific job Barry.

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said recently, "roads and bridges are not partisan in Washington." Paul Ryan said recently, "You can't deny that infrastructure does create jobs."

You can count Lindsey Graham & Kay Bailey Hutchinson on board as well!

I couldn't stop laughing last night when Chris Matthews played the 'clips'! ;o))

Our President has them boxed in the corner right where they belong!

As you can see from the likes of Sniffy & the idiot from Albany, they're gnashing their jagged little teeth!

*popcorn*???

Mr. Pleasantry, the latest about food stamps:

"Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) is pushing a new amendment that would make it more difficult for people to receive food stamps by restricting eligibility requirements and eliminating a planned $9 billion funding increase for the program. Sessions says his plan is intended to reduce the deficit and combat fraud, which he claims is rampant."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/20/349131/jeff-sessions-food-stamps-out-of-control/

Finally, something of substance. Thank you Backhouse

President Obama is the only politican on the national stage who seems to know what his job is, and is actually doing it. The rest of them act like sub contractors, working for themselves, not the country as a whole.

Wow Backhouse -- Great Posts! The Chamber of Commerce and Union came together a week or two back to champion the Infrastructure bill on a Sunday morning talk show. Let's hope Congress was paying attention.

@CA Tom -- Curious. Why don't you end by saying Obama/Biden 2012??? VP doesn't matter or are you afraid to commit?

Good morning, everyone.

Feisty --

After yesterday, I have a theory about the whereabouts of Herman Cain's wife.

She's probably visiting with her lawyers, putting together her own proposal for a "severance package."

Senator Sessions, here are some good words to think about. Its just a quote from a song about repression.

"A hungry man is a angry man" Bob Marley

I hope all you republican/teabaggers get the message.

I'll say it. Obama for president in 2012. It look's like he's the best candidate out of all these other Loser's.

Thanks Don't and Moderate,

"A report last April found that nearly 12 percent of the bridges in the United States were "structurally deficient" and required replacement. The report, prepared by Transportation for America (TOA), an advocacy organization made up of business, transportation, and environmental organizations, found that 69,000 bridges are in need of major repairs. "

http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/report-finds-thousands-us-bridges-dangerous-need-repair

Why don't you end by saying Obama/Biden 2012??? VP doesn't matter or are you afraid to commit?

Because it's going to be Hillary, which will put the ticket over the top.

Hey, Feisty. You're always making predictions. Here's mine.

Hillary as VP in 2012.

Hillary vs. Palin in 2016. It will be the Show to end all Shows!

Backhouse -- You make a powerful case and a great champion for jobs, keep on keeping on my friend.

Outstanding post at 1.7, Feisty. Among the many real issues Conservatives would like us to ignore in favor of shiny objects like the Herman Cain scandal, corporate welfare should be near the top of that list. Paying businesses MILLIONS just to locate in one zip code instead of another has become standard practice. It doesn't actually CREATE anything, it's only bribery that shuffles jobs around the country in a never ending race to the bottom for the American middle class.

And thanks to Backhouse for keeping the focus on things that really WOULD create economic activity in the shorter run. Republicans continue doing everything in their power to hamstring the economy. It needs to stop.

HAHA, blaming Perry, so what? you're the one that did it no Perry. You should of known it was going to come out in the wash. If you think you could slide by this one you aren't presidential material. That was just stupid, DUH!

"Food stamp rolls have risen 8.1% in the past year, the Department of Agriculture reported,"

And yet the GOPTP war against the middle class continues unabated.

Add GOPer Richard Shelby to the list of republicans caught on tape fully supporting infrastructure spending to create jobs and stimulate economic growth.......until President Obama suggested it. These republicans are as hollow as Mitt Romney, empty shells, no credibility, and they simply do not care about anything except themselves. They call themselves Christians. Ha.

Backhouse -

You kicked the ball not just over the goalposts, but out of the stadium! Terrific writing, again, from you!

NY Sen. Charles Shumer last night on MSNBC TV's "Politics Nation" made a telling statement. He allowed that perhaps the Republicans indeed are choosing to prevent the economy from improving, and letting the unemployed fester, their ranks expending in misery, simply for political purposes. Sen. Shumer prefaced this observation by commenting that the sentiment is hard to believe but seems more and more likely.

Most Americans agree about that - I have been holding back on expressing the same views, for the same reason. So far, my observations here and elsewhere have been focused on the history of bad behavior by the rigid right and the corporatist fronts for over 30 years, and the motivation of ideologues who feel they are just that close to finally realizing long-held desires.

But as Sen. Shumer declared, and you so eloquently detailed, Backhouse, it seems the only reason for Senate Republicans to vote against the AJA infrastructure component is that they see political gain in national suffering. That is worse than a disgrace. It is a violation of their oaths of office, and a bitter betrayal of the national electorate.

This bill is one piece of a larger issue - and that is the overriding issue of 2012: What kind of a country do Americans want?

Do Americans want a parsimonious, fractured, uncivil society dominated by the very wealthy as the remained sink ever deeper toward poverty and desperation?

Or do Americans want a national polity, devoted to seeing that all advance, that the safety, health and education of the American people is cherished, and a place within "the economy" for all who choose to partake?

Hint: The "Occupy" movement is voting with hands, heads, hearts and feet for the second option.

Jack:

Hillary vs. Palin in 2016. It will be the Show to end all Shows!

LoL I don't drink coffee, but if I did, there would be coffee all over my monitor right now.

You honestly believe this? Or you just hope for it?

Actually, now that you mention it, so do I, and so does Saturday Night Live. ;-)

John B:

Among the many real issues Conservatives would like us to ignore in favor of shiny objects like the Herman Cain scandal, corporate welfare should be near the top of that list.

Matter of fact, consider whether the scandal is a shiny object deliberately thrown out there by conservatives to create distraction. I suspect they would have no scruples throwing Cain to the wolves to keep the media focus off center.

OMG JoAnnaSmith1: Stay on topic for once.

btw: you just got Madisoned for your mind numbing rants.

Cain, needs to either come clean or find a story and stick to it. He is not coming off very well with his stories constantly changing. I am sure Mitt and Perry are having a field day with this and are just waiting for Rick and Michele to pounce on Cain, so they do not look like they are the ones piling on.

word of advice caine - " don"t blame everybody else" " blame yourself" "blame yourself"

oleonard -

You just quoted Cain telling the poor, unemployed, sick, disabled, and unfortunate how to address their problems. Right on!

JoAnnaSmith1

Obama's ceaseless efforts to increase Americans dependence on government is bearing good results.

"Food stamp rolls have risen 8.1% in the past year, the Department of Agriculture reported,"

8.1% could be right you know since "trickle down economics" has never worked. help me out here JSA1, do you have anything on those 30 top companies that didn't pay income taxes between 08 to 2010 while creating no job and still demanding to be taxed less on their offshore money.

GOP/TP and her sheepish followers, which by the way you fall under, know this but are head bent on continuing this tax free largess for the rich and corp.

She's probably visiting with her lawyers, putting together her own proposal for a "severance package."

By golly Miss Molly - I do believe you are on to something! ;o)

Hey, Feisty. You're always making predictions. Here's mine. Hillary as VP in 2012.

Nah Jack - my prediction is Hillary is done with politics when she steps down as SOS in 2012...

One more prediction - keep an eye on Rahm Emmanual, he's laying the foundation for a run in 2016!

You heard it here first! ;o)

I'd like to thank JS1 for joining me in my demand for an end to all corporate welfare.

Republicans claim that giving more money to corporations will encourage research and development as well as job creation, but it has never happened because corporations hoard the money. If the Republicans really believe in that philosophy, then it will also work for the government. However, increasing government revenue to spur infrastructure improvements and job creation is not within the grasp of Republicans’ mentality. Republicans’ solution to every economic problem is spending cuts for the poor and increased revenue for corporations (tax breaks) and it is bad economic policy. It is the failed policy of Ronald Reagan, and it’s possible that many teabags and Republicans in Congress don’t remember the Reagan years, but they can read the history for themselves if they were serious about not repeating Reagan’s economic mistakes.

It is difficult to imagine that after 30 years, Republicans still labor under the false assumption and illusion that cutting taxes for the wealthy and corporations will create jobs or help the economy. It didn’t work for Ronald Reagan and it didn’t work for George W. Bush, and if America lives on into perpetuity, it will not work then. It makes no sense for Republicans to return to failed conservative economic policies unless they have a motive only they know about.

Either the GOP is intentionally sabotaging the economy and job creation, or they are oblivious on how to proceed. If they are deliberately impairing economic growth, the American people are beginning to catch on and they are not happy. If Republicans are clueless about the right course to spur economic growth, they lied to the voters in the 2010 midterm elections and voters will not forget or forgive them. As insidious as either of those scenarios is, there is another explanation for the lack of action on jobs or the economy, and it is as likely possible as not. The Republicans are serious about oligarchy and are intentionally transferring Americans’ wealth and the government to an elite group of industrialists.

In states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Florida, the Republican governors are transferring the people’s wealth to corporations and increasing taxes on the poor and the elderly to pay for more corporate tax cuts. In Congress, Republicans cut programs for the poor, women, and children to pay for oil subsidies and corporate entitlements. Republicans are not serious about the economy or jobs, but they are serious about enriching corporations and transferring power to the wealthy. However, Americans are beginning to look suspiciously at Republican malfeasance and based on the recalls in Wisconsin and protests in cities around the country, the American people are getting angry.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/gop-jobs

John B -- Check out the latest on corporate loopholes and taxes...while the poor get "ultra poor" the rich get richer thanks to a tax system that picks winners and losers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/big-corporations-use-loopholes-dodge-taxes-study/2011/11/02/gIQAIalngM_story.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/03/business/280-big-public-firms-paid-little-us-tax-study-finds.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45145370/ns/us_news-life/#.TrKg3mC0xok Poor get poorer.

Cain has been well trained in the "Blame Game"... and it has been well received!!!

GOP Debate = BS,BS,BS ... blame Obama - BS,BS,BS ... blame Obama - BS,BS,BS ... blame Obama ...

Stick a fork in it,,,,,, Cain is done,,,,,,,,NEXT!!!

Herman Cain started out blaming his accusers and the news media for the story alleging inappropriate behavior with at least two female employees when he headed the National Restaurant Association. He then turned to Democrats and liberals, arguing that they don’t want to see him win the GOP presidential nomination. And now Cain and his campaign are blaming Team Perry for leaking the story, saying that he told Perry adviser Curt Anderson in 2003 about a charge stemming from his time at the restaurant association.

Three different scapegoats in less than a week's time. This has to be a new record. Congrats, Herman.

Ahem... personal responsibility.... cough cough

Feisty,

I don't think Hillary has called it quits, but if she has she would make a superb Supreme Court Justice!

Rahm Emmanual. Now, that's interesting. I had never considered him as a possibility. It gives me hope that someone with intelligence is waiting in the wings.

In any event, we need another 12 years to restore the Supreme Court to some sense of normalcy.

Don't carry and John A, thanks -

Now it is our turn to have a decent quality of life. Who can dispute it.

How many Americans fell off the chart circa.. 1985?

Backhouse do you think there are airports, federal funded highways i.e. interstates, and railroads every place that jobs are needed. Or in your wisdom are the unemployed that don't live close to these shovel ready jobs supposed to move, where does that money come from Steve, I mean backhouse. You liberals think that jobs for construction (federal funded projects), cops and teachers are the answer for the unemployment problem. Those jobs don't produce a product they produce services which require money from taxpayers to fund. We can't afford to spend more +*&^% money to pay people to work. Less government and less taxes. Obama and Congress need to get the hell out of peoples business and let small business in this country get people back to work.

What about the 18.4 per gallon tax paid to the Highway Trust Fund? I thought that tax was for road and highway maintenance.

Is there a reason that you guys left off the democratic governor of Illinois who raised taxes on the poor and middle class and then gave out huge tax breaks to corporations like Caterpillar, Sears etc. Several hundred million in fact. I wonder what that means? How does that fit into your class rhetoric? When supplying facts John B, give them all ok?

Backhouse. Yes, it all started with REAGAN. Since REAGAN it's been an assault on the American middle class and American VALUES . Instead, we've had a bizarre from of Christianity, bloated militarism, and warmed over Ayn Rand. Let's take America back!!!

These jobs will be paid for via a tiny increase in taxes - and 68% of $1+millionaires want to contribute more.

Construction work takes a village - hundreds of related jobs come with construction work, wherever it is.

If we invest in infrastructure and create jobs that way, we will create taxpayers. And when we have taxpayers, all that revenue goes to the very heart of the Treasury. There is broad consensus that revenue is what is needed to put our economy back on track.

And it is new start-ups that create most of the jobs in the U.S.

I believe I made myself clear...all corporate welfare.

Here in the Des Moines area one of the suburbs gave $17M in tax subsidies to get a Wells Fargo campus built within their boundaries instead of elsewhere IN THE SAME METRO AREA. That wasn't fiscally sound, it was a waste of tax payer money.

thetotas,

The Federal tax on gas has never been enough to cover the cost of maintaining our roads and bridges and now that people are driving less and using more fuel efficient cars the gap between taxes collected and repair costs is even greater.

Penn - who was in full control of the Congress in '08 to '10 and didn't attempt to stop the "non-payment" top 30?

Zorroaca44: And 3 years later your STILL doing the blame game. Thank you for your response, you just helped to prove our point. Please feel free to continue responding so that we can all see the pinnacle of hypocrisy that makes you a good little liberal puppet.

It always cracks me up when the word revenue is substituted for what it really means...taxes...I disagree with you vehemently...we need jobs that are provided through the private sector. This should be the priority..."investment in infrastructure" is an oxymoron.

Backhouse

I called some GOP Senators this morning.

I told them "Build Baby Build."

Our infrastructure needs repair, Period.

Biteme-3470275 ... the same old talking points will not make your GOP shame go away ...

Like with Cain ... if you weren't such a jerk ... I'd feel sorry for you ....

And it's so amusing how you turn a story about one of your sleaze bags into a blame game with Obama ... you are some clueless sorry souls ....

Let's say that again Build Baby Build!!!

Build Baby Build!

Build Baby Build!

Thanks sandy for the slogan! Anyone want to join the train? lol

Sooner or later it was bound to happen. They're starting to feed on each other (Republican presidential can'tdidates).

Meanwhile, Jan Brewer strikes yet another crippling blow against the rule of law and the Constitution in Nazizzona.

It not only cracks, it hurts millions of people and their families across America when one party votes 100% against creating jobs for ordinary people, while protecting and preventing the 0.02% of the top 1%, from paying the same effective taxes as ordinary people = the 99%.

Especially when almost two-thirds of $1+millionaires want to contribute and think it would be fair to do so.

There is no dispute that Norquist/ALEC and Co pulling the strings here and saying NO here. The majority of the country is on board with moving forward and putting people back to work.

Great, great work SANDY!

LET'S BUILD BABY BUILD!!

Yes, let's tell our Senators!

what you guys dont understand is that if the people who made over $1 million paid 100% of their money in taxes every year it would reduce the deficit by 4% each year. whereas obama adds almost 9% to the deficit every year due to his overspending and lack of a budget. it's a smoke and mirrors tactic to get you all pissed off and vote for him. he just wants to distract from the fact that he has been the bane of america for over 3 years now sadly. his tax increases on the rich wont even reduce the deficit by 0.25% but he will still add 9% and that money is not going to go to putting people to work, it's going to go to obamacare and SS and other gov't programs (you know, the things that the gov't can dip their greedy fingers in and withdraw from).

Zorroaca44: Your an expert at hypocrisy, the blame game, and the name calling!! Too bad you haven't tried thinking for yourself without reading from your liberal handbook. One minute you are blaming bush for now, then you are telling cain to stand up and accept responsibility and now you are accusing me of turning a story around on obama. Do you actually believe any of the nonsense that comes out of your ignorant rants? Why dont you try practicing what you preach? Oh thats right, that would violate your liberal code of unethical and backwards behaviour.

Ms. Dominguez -

As you see the nation rising in protests over unequal distribution of wealth, declining opportunity for the vast majority of people, the abusive exploitation by banks and captial management firms, the spreading poverty and hunger that has followed inevitably from the ideologies of the right implemented over the prior 30 years, give some thought to what all this means.

Taxes in America, compared to most of the nations assembled right this moment at a G20 summit, are ridiculoously low. The main burden falls on lower-middle-class people. State by state, county by county, the tax burden is even more stressful on the poor and the lower middle class - property levies, sales taxes, user fees, and "hidden" taxes paid by suppliers of utilities, wholesalers and so forth.

It is the relative effect of taxation that creates the inequality of the burden between very wealthy people and the working poor or middle class. And in relative terms, the very wealthy are not in any sense carrying their fair share.

As for the issue of job creation - the whole purpose of the infrastructure jobs bill is to generate the kind of economic activity, including demand for goods and services, that enables the private sector to grow and add jobs. It's so simple, a child could do it ....

When I taught in Mexico in 1969, I saw a government at work tearing down what had been a prosperous, active middle class. I saw that nation mid-point in the stages of spreading poverty, reducing resources for education, and rewarding the wealthy classes. It's well-advanced now in the United States. The economic philosophy and wreck-the-government tactics of the right has failed, utterly and completely, and brought the entire world to financial crisis. The madness must stop, the ideology of the right has been proven disastrously wrong!

Amy B. Portland, ME

President Obama is the only politican on the national stage who seems to know what his job is, and is actually doing it. The rest of them act like sub contractors, working for themselves, not the country as a whole.

I agree Amy. I often feel that Harry Reid, Dick Durban and Charles Schumer are only interested in themselves. I think it's time the majority party in the Senate voted themselves new leadership.

BTW When was the last time the Senate passed an annual budget as required by law? Ever wonder why those Continuing Resolutions to fund the government happen every couple of months?

Talk to the Hand

Amnesia? Bush tax cuts expired when? In 2010, on what grounds was the tax cuts extended? If you don't know, ask your hostage holding zombies in congress..........i should guess you understand zombie signs and language.

Biteme ... Since you made such a bad mistake with Bush ... I will give you one simple piece of advice that even you might be able to comprehend ... with the bunch of fools that you call GOP presidential hopefuls ... Don't confuse an open mind with one that's vacant ....

Oh…. THIS must be why the Barry admin just paid Freddie executives a bunch of multi-million dollar bonuses.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freddie Mac to Seek $6 Billion More from Taxpayers

Reuters

| 03 Nov 2011 | 09:54 AM ET

Mortgage finance giant Freddie Mac said on Wednesday it will seek an additional $6 billion from U.S. taxpayers following its worst quarterly loss this year.

The government-owned company reported a comprehensive loss in the third quarter of $4.4 billion, it said in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. That compared with a $1.1 billion loss for the second quarter of 2011.

Despite an income of $4.6 billion, the company registered a net worth deficit of $6.0 billion, which was partly attributed to the $1.6 billion quarterly dividend payment owed to the Treasury.

Freddie Mac has drawn $72.2 billion from the government since it was taken over at the height of the financial crisis in September 2008. The government seized both Freddie Mac and larger rival company Fannie Mae as mortgage losses at the two firms piled up and threatened them with insolvency.

Republicans still labor under the false assumption and illusion that cutting taxes for the wealthy and corporations will create jobs or help the economy. It didn't work for Ronald Reagan and it didn't work for George W. Bush

The low information leftist dolts around here are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. During Reagan's two terms non-farm employment increased by over 16 million jobs. During his two terms real GDP growth averaged 3.5% per year, and growth in the first five quarters coming out of the 1981-82 recession was 8.1%, 9.3 %, 8.1%, 8.5%, and 8.0% a record of robust achievement that put the country on the path towards 80 consecutive months of economic growth.

In January 2004 non-farm employment stood at 130 million, but by January 2008 non-farm employment had increased to 138 million. The fact is that 8 million jobs were created in the 4 year period immediately following the Bush tax cuts. Oh, and in 2007 –AFTER the Bush tax cuts – federal tax revenues comprised 18.5% of GDP, slightly above the historical average. And it hasn't been nearly that high on Obama's watch.

So much for the laughable screeds that Republican policies don't support economic growth and job creation. BTW, such policies are embedded in a raft of bills passed by the Republican House. So much for the leftist lies that Republicans aren't trying to get the country moving again. But those bills have been tossed on the shelf by the Democratic Senate. So much for the really big whopper that Democrats are putting country before politics.

Fabulous post John A,

The fallout from the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy prove beyond a shadow, that cutting taxes does not increase revenue and it does not create jobs, and it adds $trillions to the deficit. The Bush tax cuts add $11.6Million per hour, every hour to our deficit.

We tried cutting tax to the wealthy and it failed disastrously & great-recession-ously. It is a proven deception/lie that tax cuts for the wealthy will create more jobs or more revenue.

Been there, done that. This philosophy has done us in. And in the terrible aftermath of the Wall Street financial debacle, this Administration is working double time to create something right NOW for ordinary Americans.

That is: put people back to work doing what America needs doing.

BUILD BABY BUILD! Let's rebuild America.

Wow! Herman Cain is not so bright after all. Does anyone think these Sexual Harassment details would not have been revealed eventually if the Herminator had won the GOP nomination? When you are running for the highest office in the Nation, your entire life is going to be dissected to the time you were born. If this guy actually thought these allegations would never see the light of day, just because they took place in the 90's, the dude is rather Ignorant.

The Blame Game. Beautiful. It must be President Obama's fault that Hermie sexually harrassed a poor young lady. Now with Rich Perry snitching on Hermie, really what did they think? What was Rich Perry's camp called? Do you think he wasn't going to snitch on Hermie with a camp called that? Rich Perry is a racist and he wasn't very happy when Hermie passed him in the polls, so he figured he would try to change that. Thats the oldest texas trick in the books. Gw tried it with McCain, claiming McCain fathered a black baby. What a hoot these gop's are, a real joke, the whole batch of them but a few are seeming to excel a little right now. I wonder if maybe Rich Perry didn't have a vision to snitch on Herman. Beautiful, just beautiful. I actually had flip-flop Mitt as the snitch but Perry was running a close second to him. Lovely, and I'm thinking its even going to get better now. I wonder how Hermie will get back at Rich Perry? This should get real good now, real good. While the gop's are playing their roles for a heated reality show President Obama is running the country. Its just a good thing President Obama won the last time, had McCain won then we'd be right along side of Greece as far as defaulting and bankruptcy. Oh it would of played right into the hands of the tp's, the middle class would have been gone by now. This country is so much better off with President Obama right now, its just a blessing. Just have to vote a congress and senate in thats willing to work for the bettering of the country than these idiots we have in there right now. When this happens the next 4 yrs with President Obama should get the United States out of the red and into the black again. Obama in 2012 along with a straight democrat ticket should be the answer and a great start to getting out of the mess Gw left us in.

I'm only going to waste my time doing one post on this today so if you respond, good for you, I will not be wasting any more time on this non story until more comes out that might actually tell me something useful.

Right now Cain continues to lead in many of the polls and his campaign has actually seen in increase in money coming in. This is happening because 1.) the harassment accusation is just that an accusation, he says he has never harassed anyone, they say he did. Know one knows the truth, so unless something more substantial comes out he will be given the benefit of the doubt by those who didn't already oppose him. 2.) Even if true, the harassment accusation was over comments he made, no one is saying he touched or raped anyone, and unless the comments he made are made public we don't know if they were as simple as "would you like to come up to my hotel room?" - "your about the same height as my wife" leaving a very open interpretation, or if they were something more sinister. 3.) Whether it was the Perry campaign, some Democrat or liberal group, or Politico getting lucky, this was leaked for a political reason, and people are always suspicious of things being leaked for political reasons. And finally 4.) When the media goes overboard with their handling of a story, and it looks like they are not giving this guy the same benefit they gave people like Anthony Weiner, Barnie Frank, and Bill Clinton, some people start to look at Cain as being the victim, and many can associate themselves with Cain because honestly many in the real world have had to deal with accusations before themselves.

The women will definitely be allowed to speak because 1.) Cain has spoken of it which automatically breaks the NDA, and 2.) The Restaurant Ass. would never go after the women if they came out in told their side because the Association has no desire to be made a villain for trying to go after them legally even if they have cause.

They haven't came out yet because they are still being coached on what to say and how to say it. I'm not saying the women are being told to lie, I'm just saying they don't want the women to get caught making a false statement or a statement they have to back track on, not to mention preparing them for all the attention they are going to get.

Even if this does eliminate Cain, democrats and the media shouldn't cheer, most believe Romney would then get the Nomination and most also believe Romney has a better chance of beating Obama.

BUILD BABY BUILD!!

Jump on board the train everyone lets make a statement today!

Well heck Bill...let's cut taxes to zero and the jobs and economy will be rolling according to the theory of trickle down...

"The White House will try to distance itself from Corzine, but the disgrace of one of his leading bundlers will make it a little harder for Obama to spend the next year wandering the countryside complaining about Republican responsibility for Wall Street greed and income inequality."

Indeed it will.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/11/01/corzine-liberal-hypocrisy-disgrace-obama/

"investment in infrastructure" is an oxymoron.

There's a statement that encapsulates the reason why Conservatism is a failure in one sentence. With that philosophy we don't have an internet. We don't have a space program. We don't have an Interstate System. We don't have rural electrification. We don't have a national highway system. We don't have Alaska. We don't have a transcontinental railroad. We don't have a Louisiana Purchase. We don't have national parks. We don't have public schools.

That's a statement that dooms the United States to third world status.

i know these aren't the actual quotes and there's a lot more of them but you all get where i'm going with this.

No we don't know where you are going with this. The difference between a liberal and a conservative - details matter. Knowing what you're taling about goes a long way. Clear undisputed facts will always outweigh your contrived view of those facts.

"The Federal Reserve sharply downgraded its projections for the U.S. economy Wednesday, warning that weak growth and high unemployment will be the norm for years."

But the president still insists he made all the right choices. Go figure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-sees-modest-economic-growth-wont-take-new-monetary-action/2011/11/02/gIQAlLtvfM_story.html

LogicReguired ... a pretty long winded piece of writing to basically say ... Cain is Toast and Romney is the best fool left standing! The problem is ... a bunch of GOP Christians DON'T like Romney ... In that case ... a lot of the GOP won't vote!!!!

AND ... Romney can forget the minority vote!!!

We're just sick and tired of being lied to by politicians. It's a waste of everybody's time and money. Own up to whatever is in your background and be done with it. I think Chris Christie would have tried to run an honest administration. Is that too much to ask - that politicians be held accountable? It's OUR money they're spending, and not their own personal piggy bank.

John A, I noticed you didnt provide the statistics of those G20 countries you admire so much. What is the highest corporate tax rate in the G20? What country collects more tax from the wealthy in that G20? Come on John, provide all the facts. You forgot to say that the US has the highest corporate tax rate making it difficult to compete against those countries in selling thier products globally. Its amazing how cheap a BMW can be bought in China when they dont have to pay German tax compared to a US company that cant bring its profit back to the US and invest here. What about the wealthy? Why does the US already collect the greatest percentage of tax from the wealthy in comparison?

Backhouse, if providing tax cuts doesnt trickle down and create jobs and so called revenue, then why are you saying that hiring people for infrastructure jobs will trickle down additional jobs and revenue? Seems counterintuitive. But so far you havent explained how this money wont end up in the pockets of the unions by just giving it to states who will reallocate budget funds for infrastructure and use the new cash to pay down unfunded liabilities? So how do you know whether any jobs are really created? Instead of build baby build? Shouldnt he be giving incentives to invest in the private sector? Why not provide investment tax credits, accelerated depreciation, eliminate the red tap and regulations to register new businesses, eliminate the barriers that the private industry has and you get permanent jobs and you dont add to the deficit. Do you plan on eliminating from the budget wealth transfers to the wealthy our seniors in the form of social security reform?

Bill -- Let's make all of Congress and all the new candidates disclose who and where their campaign contributions come from. I'm sure we can create a new scandal to feed on every single day of the week. Unless you are picky eater it should keep you full.

Tear down Citizens United and advocate for total campaign finance reforms NOW!

Being reactive is easy than being proactive eh?

The fallout from the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy prove beyond a shadow, that cutting taxes does not increase revenueand it does not create jobs,

But if we use the "create or saved" criteria it is a roaring success. Under my economic model if the tax cuts were not implemented in 2001 we would have had 8% unemployment instead of 5%. (Numbers pulled out my ass). And by coincidence every liberals favorite economist thinks we should keep these rates for now.

blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/09/15/zandi-keep-tax-cuts-until-economy-mends/

Now let me hear that he's wrong on this and right on the stimulus. (personally I think he's a dick that talks a load of bull)

BTW do you feel the same way about the payroll tax cuts that have manged to knock SS into the red this year? How do feel about the fact that a Democratic Administration is responsible for the deficits that SS is now experiencing? Do worry that President Obama's tax cuts are endangering SS? Do you think that these tax cuts are creating jobs and boosting the economy?

Joe in Albany, quoting a journalist from Politico, which has consistently been anti-Obama:

The early salvos are also familiar moves in a strategy that has worked in each of the four federal campaigns Obama has run: disqualifying character attacks from aides or outsiders, executed brutally as Obama himself floats above the fray.

Sounds kind of like Bush and the Swift Boat attacks of 2004, doesn't it? The only difference is that what the Swifties said about John Kerry was proven to be a pack of lies, while what Plouffe said about Romney is the undeniable truth. (And you can bet that Politico wasn't attacking Bush for the Swift Boat lies back in 2004. For some reason, the media applies different standards to Obama than it did to Bush).

Despite the admitted relentless agenda from the Right to block/defeat/destroy/derail any kind of recovery for our country, this President kept us from crashing and burning. Right now, Europe is proof that we did well on the decisions made by him and we were lucky he made them when he did.

GOP watered down the stimulus in 2009 and tried to block Wall Street Reform. Even so, by the end of that year the stimulus created 2 million jobs and saved thousands of police, firefighter, first responder jobs.

By 2009, we had dipped down to minus 8.9%GDP -- (not minus 3.9%GDP, as we originally thought).

It was obvious at the end of that year, despite all the job creation and ecoomic recovery that more spending was needed. Economists of all stripes look back on the President's request now, and regret not insisting on more stimulus. If we had, we would be even more streets and miles ahead of Europe right now.

"We do have a serious problem in terms of debt and deficit, and much of it I inherited," Obama said at a democratic fundraiser. Blaming Bush.

"We are not going to get relief by turning back to the very same policies that for the last 8 years have doubled the national debt and threw our economy into a tailspin, " Obama said while remarking about his stimulus plan.... He's right, he'll use new policies and double the national debt in under 4 years.

"...while 2 wars and an expensive prescription drug program were simply added to our nations credit card. As a result, the deficit was on track to top 1 trillion dollars the year I took office." Obama addressing the nation on debt ceiling. Blaming Bush again and saying that he inherited it again.

But since Bush has been out of office long enough, he can't use the Blame Bush tactic anymore. Sorry Barry, guess it was just a matter of time before people realized that you've spent more money than any president in history in less than a term and you're the reason why this economy has gone from crap to much worse... Actually reading through a lot of the other comments, I guess a lot of people haven't realized it yet. Oh well, can't fix stupid.

Is that enough for you Bryan E., PA? Because there's plenty more where that came from. But I'm not going to waste my time and I'll let you look up the other times for yourself. The difference between a liberal and a conservative - the conservative doesn't need someone else to prove to him/her what has been said over and over, and actually knows whats been going on the whole time hahaha

The low information leftist dolts around here are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Look who's again attempting to substitute name calling for facts. Here are some facts, directly from the Wall Street Journal;

During Ronald's 8 year term 16M jobs were created, 2M per year.

During Jimmy Carter's 4 year term 10.5M jobs were created, 2.6M per year...during a time that is still remembered for it's economic "malaise."

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

Looks like Supply Side Economics has been a failure from its very first implementation. Since then it's only gotten worse.

Zorraca44: I couldn't possibly confuse an open mind for a vacant one. To be so much of a liberal puppet constitutes a vacant mind, and I am certainly open minded enough to see that. Obama and the liberal democrats blame game has come back to bite them in the a$$. Get over it and accept it. The more you deny it the more of a fool you make yourself out to be.

Biteme-3470275 ... After seeing your rants ... a joke came to mind:

"The only animal with an assssshole in the middle of its back is a Republican horse".

Feisty,

Loved your comment, 'jagged little teeth'.

Yes, **popcorn** !!

So let's build, baby build!

John B:

That's a statement that dooms the United States to third world status.

Yes, and that's just what conservatives want. For everyone else but themselves.

And I defy any conservative out here to name one thing that your side has done to prove otherwise.

Actually Kirk -- If you read the articles on tax loopholes for business I posted you would see that the organization found that many American businesses are paying a great deal more in taxes overseas than here. Why is that???

anna molly, i would answer your post, but i know that you'll just say something stupid about it, being a liberal and all. so i'll just say conservatives have repeatedly tried to stop obama's overspending but the "messiah" just doesn't listen to the people when they shout "stop spending money we don't have!!!"

Kirk:

Backhouse, if providing tax cuts doesnt trickle down and create jobs and so called revenue, then why are you saying that hiring people for infrastructure jobs will trickle down additional jobs and revenue?

Kirk, where did you go to law school, again? Because that's about as false an analogy as I've ever seen anyone set up, and evidence of extremely shallow thinking.

Tax cuts don't trickle down jobs because the rich keep the money. They don't need to spend it, either by direct hiring or by purchasing. Hence, no demand for good or services is produced, and ergo no jobs. All empirical data relating to the effect of tax cuts on job growth -- including the repatriation of foreign profits in 2005 -- supports this conclusion.

Providing jobs to people directly, on the other hand, directly creates demand in a group of people who had no means to purchase before. They NEED to spend the money to eat, travel, and pay their bills. That demand, in turn, creates other jobs.

This difference is pretty easy to see, even for the average person.

But then, again, you did say yesterday that clear thinking didn't make a good lawyer.

By that standard, you must be an excellent lawyer.

pandas are awesome:

so i'll just say conservatives have repeatedly tried to stop obama's overspending but the "messiah" just doesn't listen to the people when they shout "stop spending money we don't have!!!"

That's probably because NOT spending money HISTORICALLY does NOT get this country out of recession.

And you, although you may be awesome, are not "the people." The polls consistently show that this viewpoint is in the minority. Yet, you continue to shout, as if loudness makes right.

Any more than muddled thinking makes a good lawyer.

It doesn't.

Obama's ceaseless efforts to increase Americans dependence on government is bearing good results.

"Food stamp rolls have risen 8.1% in the past year, the Department of Agriculture reported,"

No one WANTS to be on food stamps. Would you think that Obama was doing a better job if these people starved? If the GOP doesn't like for people to be on food stamps, perhaps it would introduce a viable, aggressive recovery plan with specifics instead of sitting around and complaining that Obama hasn't proposed anything they like (although, in many cases, they introduced the same proposals themselves previously, go figure).

anna molly, what you fail to realize is that his overspending has created a huge problem and doubled our national debt in under 4 years. instead of making cuts to unnecessary spending in the budget, he spends more to try and counter it. i dont think anything can be more obviously stupid. the only problem with making cuts is that it's necessary but it's going to piss some people off and that means less votes for him, which from what we've all seen over the past 3 years, is all he cares about. conservatives have tried repeatedly to cut spending but the democrats won't listen to one word of it. sorry dems, but it's a necessity that this country is going to have to see sometime soon.

Anna Molly -

Now you see why very early after encountering Kirk, I found the "ignore" button.

Before Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, (then) West Germany undertook an experiment with trickle-down economics. The country was close to completing a big portion of the wirtschaftswunder era of post-war reconstruction, the economy had slowed greatly, many were unemployed, and the government decided that cutting taxes for the wealthy would help jump-start jobs.

In a somewhat short span of time, Germany pulled the plug on that experiment.

The government discovered that instead of providing capital for business investment and bankrolling job growth, the tax breaks provided capital to be banked or in some cases to be used for expensive jewelry, luxury autos, fancy yachts, and more bipping about with "the beautiful people."

America's more than 30-year-long experiment with the Milton Friedman economic ideology was known in advance as a failure. But the ideologues went ahead anyhow - maybe that's a negative example of "American exceptionalism," eh?

On another of your points:

And you, although you may be awesome, are not "the people." The polls consistently show that this viewpoint is in the minority. Yet, you continue to shout, as if loudness makes right.

See my post 1.31 above .... rising protests all about the nation tell us visibly what "the people" want.

pandas are awesome:

anna molly, what you fail to realize is that his overspending has created a huge problem and doubled our national debt in under 4 years. instead of making cuts to unnecessary spending in the budget, he spends more to try and counter it.

Read my lips, panda -- you don't cut taxes in wartime, and you don't cut spending in a recession.

Republicans did the first during the Bush administration, and they're trying to force the second now.

What YOU fail to realize is what got us into this mess in the first place.

AND that it's the kind of mess than fiscal austerity, without revenue enhancement, won't fix.

Try looking up a little economic theory.

And, after that, if you still insist, then why not start with defense?

John B, the way you skewed those results, does that mean you are going to punish the Obama tenure with the loss of jobs during the Great Recession? Reagan brought us out of recession caused by the Carter era but the actual losses came during Reagan's tenure. You have to measure job gains from the trough of the recession to the peak. I am at least objective enough to use that same measure for Obama otherwise you penalize him for the Bush recession that had an economic impact during Obama's tenure. The problem is that there has been no recovery from the trough of the recession due to Obama's failed economic policies unlike Reagan. It was another good attempt to not be objective and try to skew the facts to your favor.

Anna Molly--you want just one thing to prove that fiscal conservatives dont want to be a third world country? Thats an easy one--Education reform blocked at every turn by the democrats for the benefit of their teacher union constituents. The education gap is one of the largest if not largest culprit of the income inequality issue that is pitting american against american. The demand for high skilled labor pushes up wages for the educated while we continue to retain the same failed education system for the poor. Illegal and legal immigration only hurts the problem more. How often has the GOP tried various reforms only to be blocked at every turn. I know some have failed and others people disagree with but at least the GOP has tried.

Of course there are plenty of others such as the balanced budget proposals? What about creating fiscal discipline? What about addressing the big factors in the income inequality CBO report by attempting to address illegal immigration that depresses low skilled wage growth, what about proposing entitlement reform as the CBO report showed that as our population ages we are pushing government wealth transfers from the poor (where they used to be spent) to the wealthy because of social security and medicare. Our seniors control 80% of this countrys wealth in the aggregate but we are afraid to touch entitlement reform and blame it on the 1 percenters, what about tax reform. The list could go on and on as I would put form that the economic racism practiced by the progressive movement continues to push us to third world status. When people lose the drive for self reliance and personal accountability, you get stuck in a nanny state world. Without serious deficit and spending controls and tax reform that provides additional revenue and fairness, we will have a lower standard of living for our kids and grandkids.

panda,

So if our President doubled the National debt it must
have suddenly jumped to over $20 trillion.

ANNA MOLLY:

Great post @ #1.97. So well said!

Build, Baby Build!

Kirk -- Please address my post. How do you explain why American businesses are just fine with paying a higher tax rate overseas but gripe about paying taxes in America? Indeed they spend money to lobby for those breaks, they enjoy refunds even and yet they claim paying taxes here prevent them from hiring??? I don't understand the logic do you?

Tax cuts don't trickle down jobs because the rich keep the money. They don't need to spend it, either by direct hiring or by purchasing. Hence, no demand for good or services is produced, and ergo no jobs. All empirical data relating to the effect of tax cuts on job growth -- including the repatriation of foreign profits in 2005 -- supports this conclusion.

Providing jobs to people directly, on the other hand, directly creates demand in a group of people who had no means to purchase before. They NEED to spend the money to eat, travel, and pay their bills. That demand, in turn, creates other jobs.

This difference is pretty easy to see, even for the average person.

One of the best explanations I've seen on this point. Good writing, Anna Molly.

Zorroaca44: I see that your wit is as dull as your comments. If this is the best that you can do(which isn't saying much if anything at all) at being intelligent, then I wont argue with you anymore. There is an old saying,"Never argue with an imbecile, people might not know the difference between you." I will not look like an imbecile just to argue with the likes of your kind.

sorry, what i meant was that he is on track to double the national debt in 8 years. bush and obama added almost the same amount to the national debt. the difference: bush did it in 8 years and obama did it just over 3 years. bush added $607 billion to the debt every year and obama added $1.723 trillion every year... hmmm, somebody can't make a budget that the US can live within. bush was no good president, but i find myself missing him now. it will be at $20 trillion if barry gets another term.

and anna molly, i thought obama was pulling the troops out within 9 months so we wouldn't be in the war right now, but oh wait he lied about that. and you cut spending to unnecessary programs during a recession. you have to spend your way out of a recession, not overspend it back in.

DCIA--first thats a tough question because it depends on the specific situation and US tax code is so laden with complexity. I understand that GE didnt pay US taxes but did in foreign countries but that isnt the norm. But my comment is more about competitiveness. We are the only industrialized country that taxes sales in a foreign country in the host country too. So if GM sells a car in Brazil, it pays foreign tax in Brazil and then US tax when the profits are brought back to the US. Thats why US companies dont bring the money back. The US tax rate is so high that if GM had to pay 35% tax in Brazil they couldnt compete with Toyota to sell its cars. Thats my point.

Anna Molly, I am sure my law school education is far inferior to yours as I know I cant compete with your brilliant mind. However, on this issue you cant really be that stupid. First as to trickle down, if your talking about the ultra super wealthy I would agree that a few extra tax dollars probably doesnt impact or create any jobs. However, are you telling me that for the working wealthy or small business owner that retains more after tax cash that not a single trickle down job is ever created? Do you seriously believe that? So when a doctor has additional cash, you dont think he may hire a live in nanny, landscaping services, go on a more expensive vacation or additional vacations or the small business owner doesnt expand or buy additional services? I know you really cant believe that net after tax cash in the hands of the working wealthy doesnt trickle down job growth. As for repatriation, I agree, it didnt work. When Bush did it, the cash was used in the most efficient manner to them at the time which was buy back stock. But guess who owned that stock? So that cash went into Union pension funds, 401(k) accounts, endowments so are you saying there was zero benefit? But yes you are correct, they didnt invest in expansion creating new jobs and I dont know if it would happen this time either. I look at it from a foreign competitiveness standpoint not repatriation standpoint. As for consumption, you are correct, the average worker with a job consumes and creates service jobs and I dont disagree that they do. I was more pointing out the hypocrisy that it only works in one direction.

John A, putting people on ignore is just an admission of weak debating skills and an inability to win. You just hate it when people call you on your BS. But I know my education and pedigree I am sure is far inferior to yours and Anna Mollys.

Biteme-3470275 .... now now now ... it was a joke ... and the way you write ... you are quite a jokester yourself!!!

Got another for you buddy ... if I can call you that ....

"How many roads must a Republican travel down before he admits he is lost?"

Weak argument Kirk. Why do they stay overseas then where tax rates in some cases are much higher than here? They must be profitable right?

Providing jobs to people directly, on the other hand, directly creates demand in a group of people who had no means to purchase before. They NEED to spend the money to eat, travel, and pay their bills. That demand, in turn, creates other jobs.

...and the last stimulus did not produce self-sustaining job why? According to your empirical evidence that should not have happened as the money spent on eat, travel and bills should have generated more jobs and tax revenue. My empirical evidence is as soon as the money that was providing jobs to people directly ran out the jobs ended. Believe it or not some jobs are more productive than others (lawyers being one of the least productive relatively speaking). Go read "Germs, Guns and Steel" to learn about how you create wealth that allows for more teachers, police and yes standing armies. You have to produce something first before you can have the benefits. Even Keynes dismissed the idea of digging holes and filling them in.

If your theory had any merit then the Soviet Union would have been an economic powerhouse as the fully-employed workforce generated ever increasing demand. Empirical evidence says no.

DCIA, if you pull up any annual report from a multinational corporation. You will find that the US tax provision is generally 35% US, 3-5% combined State tax rates and maybe an addtional 5-10% at most foreign tax rates. So they dont pay more in foreign jurisdictions than the US because they get a foreign tax credit agains the US tax but it doesnt work out to be a perfect one for one. But in most foreign countries the tax rate in those jurisdictions is far less that 35%. Dont forget taxes is just a cost of doing business and deducted from net income. So the less tax they pay, the more competitive pricing of their products right? I dont know of any corporation that is fine with paying taxes anywhere. Taxes on corporations are basically taxes on us. They either are in the cost of the product we pay for or they reduce the value of the corporation owned by all of us. Public corporations are owned primarily by institutions the largest of which is pension plans mainly unions. They are also owned by endowments, 401(k) accounts etc. So the corporations are motivated to be able to compete as best they can by selling their products at competitve pricing maximizing their profit margins. Taxes impact both.

pandas

You keep blaming the "overspending" by Obama... Ok, list out all the bills that Obama has SIGNED and of those bills, the ones which have GONE INTO EFFECT.

Go on, I want to see EXACTLY what "spending" Obama has signed, that has contributed to the debt.

Kirk --As if they have no Corporate responsibility to be good citizens and pay for the government services and protections they enjoy both here and abroad! Those services and protections are expensive! Enough said!!!

Go on, I want to see EXACTLY what "spending" Obama has signed, that has contributed to the debt.

Stimulus bill, extension of Unemployment Benefits, ACA - payments to states, escalation of war in Afghanistan.

Not spending but contributes to debt. Extension of Bush Tax rates and lowering of payroll/SS taxes.

However, are you telling me that for the working wealthy or small business owner that retains more after tax cash that not a single trickle down job is ever created? Do you seriously believe that? So when a doctor has additional cash, you dont think he may hire a live in nanny, landscaping services, go on a more expensive vacation or additional vacations or the small business owner doesnt expand or buy additional services? I know you really cant believe that net after tax cash in the hands of the working wealthy doesnt trickle down job growth.

Kirk

Seriously... You claim to be educated and STILL believe that tax cuts create jobs?

Ok, smart guy... I'll make it easy for you. Right now, at this very second, retailers across the country are hiring MORE people for the holiday season. By your logic, tax cuts create jobs, so are the tax rates suddenly going down in November and December? I must have missed that news.

You know all the theme parks around the country, like Disney World? Did you now they hire MORE people in the summer months? Now, is that because taxes go down in the summer?

F--- it, let's use YOUR brilliant example. A "doctor" already makes good money and probably has a maid, gardener and nanny employed in his home. He is already employing the people necessary to fulfill his needs... this is called supply and demand. He has a house-cleaning demand, so he hired a maid to fulfill that demand. He has gardening demands, so he hires gardeners to fill that need. So if we give him a tax cut, will he hire ANOTHER maid that he does not need? Will he hire ANOTHER gardener he does not need? What kind of moron would throw away extra money on hiring people they DO NOT NEED?

Tax cuts DO NOT CREATE JOBS... they never have, they never will. DEMAND creates jobs. There is not a single businessman who will create a job there is no demand for.

Someone mentioned that you have a law degree (I doubt it)... but for sh--s and giggles, let's say you are a lawyer. You currently employee the necessary staff to meet your legal needs. If you get a tax cut, are you going to hire someone new to stand around and do nothing, because all your needs are met with your current staff? Or are you going to pocket the money? Everyone knows you will pocket it. So stop bullsh--ing, be a man, and just f---ing admit it.

I am man enough to admit, I am not afraid... why are you? I make a sh-- load of money and I employ people. The greedy side of me wants a tax cut. But at least I have the balls to admit that I want a tax cut to pocket the money, and use it on ANOTHER expensive vacation to Aruba, or France, or any other place I travel to. Hell, maybe I will just invest the extra money and take it out of the economy. Either way, at least I am f---ing honest about what I will really do with the money... I'm not blowing sunshine up societies ass and lying to everyone.

former-GOP http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133211508/the-weekly-standard-obama-vs-bush-on-debt

here's a link to the amounts spent by each by january 25, 2011. keep in mind that these numbers are 9 months old.

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (Feb 17, 2009): $787 billion (still ongoing)

Omnibus Spending Bill: $410 billion

Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010: $858 billion

There's $2.055 trillion dollars right there...

Obamacare: almost $900 billion (already started the spending for the program in 2010 that will go into effect in 2014)

Increases in military spending: around $800 billion

and everything Alan, NJ said. those are all of the bills signed into law, which doesn't even encompass all of the other spending which is a lot as well.

and to be honest, I'm getting tired of all this. You guys have computers as well and you can look things up for yourself for once in your lives. I'm not wasting any more time trying to show you what's been right in front of you the whole time. so look up all the other stuff and then get back to me... or do you need obama to tell you all of his info for you to believe it??

Tax cuts DO NOT CREATE JOBS... they never have, they never will. DEMAND creates jobs. There is not a single businessman who will create a job there is no demand for.

So why did the Administration lower payroll taxes, and ask that the lower rates be extended as part of the AJA? You want me to email the WH with your comments so they get the message that they're wrong?

Ooooweeeee, that was a long thread. I'm a little late to the party today but let me share a couple of thoughts.

As most of you know I am a state certified Civil Rights investigator. I've had my share of Sexual Harassment cases. This is the procedure.

The victim files a complaint with the EEOC. They assign an investigator to look into the complaint. If the complaint is largely substantiated (please not the "if") then they issue the victim with a letter telling her she has the right to sue the offender and/or his company. This letter will be shared with the offender/company by the EEOC. It's commonly referred to as a "right to sue" letter.

If one of the victims got a monetary settlement it's probably because she got a "right to sue" letter and the Restaurant Association settled the matter out of court. If she had gone to court she might have gotten a jury award ten or twenty times the amount of the settlement, minimum.

The settlement in itself is not an admission of guilt. Guilt can only be decided by a court of law. That's important to remember.

The other alleged victim may have complained directly to the company. With no Federal Investigation or right to sue communication they may not have felt compelled to offer a monetary settlement and handled it internally.

Perpetrator's respond to harassment complaints in a pretty predictable pattern. Let's see how Mr. Cain scores.

1. Denial. "I didn't sexually harass anybody." Check.

2. Attack. "She knew she was going to be disciplined so she filed a complaint. She's a bad employee." Check.

3. Mistake. "She must have misinterpretted my actions." Check.

4. Joke. "I was just kidding around."

5. Blame. "I've been cracking the whip pretty hard/all of them are out to get me." Check.

6. Everybody else does it. "She tells dirty jokes and makes comments about men that are sexual."

Well, so far it looks like Mr. Cain has tried FOUR of the standard responses. And as you can see, some of these responses are tacit admissions of the act the victim complained about.

The first and only response Cain should have made was "Yes, it's true, there were two complaints and they were fully investigated and a satisfactory resolution was reached in each case. We all agreed with the settlement and we also agreed not to discuss the details. End of story."

Further questions should be responded to with the last two sentences.

That's it.

But he didn't do that. He professed ignorance, criticized the victims work, blamed others and so on.

Not good. Not good.

It doesn't prove anything, but it's not good. His advisers should be fired. He needs to give it up.

So, Buh-bye big guy, you are done.

Obama/Biden 2012

In America we don't send someone to the gallows without a fair trial. So leave Cain alone about the inpropriety. Instead let us look at the knowledge he has demonstrated about the free world he wishes to lead....

:-\

Uh. Well, I guess that about wraps it up for Cain.

pandas

I have links too.

DCIA--I agree that corporations have corporate responsibility and not sure why you think I view it as otherwise. I am looking at corporate taxes purely from a competitive and payment perspective not rate or fair share. You seem to think that when a corporation pays taxes, that it doesnt have an impact anywhere else. I completely understand the fair share tax argument on the wealthy and whether they currently pay enough, I just dont understand it as to how it impacts corporations. I have asked the posters on here many times to refute my propositions or even respond so many times and havent heard one time. A corporate tax is something that is really paid by all of us and is regressive in that impacts the poor and middle class far more than an individual income tax. I just dont understand why we dont want our corporations to be as competitive as possible and share value to be as high as possible because its to our overall benefit

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL = Rachel Maddow?

Why are the media reporting so much about "Herman Cain"? He was never going to win the "republican" nomination. Additionally, it's been evident all along that the man doesn't know his ass from a sugar plum.

Alan, NJ:

So why did the Administration lower payroll taxes, and ask that the lower rates be extended as part of the AJA? You want me to email the WH with your comments so they get the message that they're wrong?

You can do it on my behalf. Tell them that the tax cuts in ARRA were also wrong.

Lowering payroll taxes was a gimmick. And not a good gimmick.

Pen - The POTUS agreed they needed to be extended. What's your point?

fomer-GOP, not sure what the fomer stands for but thanks for the condescending note. I notice that neither Anna Molly or John A have the ability to actually refute anything said. But thanks for stepping up to the plate on their behalf. If you must know my background, yes I practiced law for many years both at a large firm and in house. Worked for a family office and became CFO for 10 years before leaving with my CEO to start our own small business. Its obvious that your view of the world is very simplistic, naive and not very financially astute. I realize that you think you understand what you are saying because its so easy to say demand creates jobs because some thinkprogress web link told you that but if you had done any critical thinking before you posted maybe you wouldnt seem so silly.

You seem to think demand is a very simple concept and that nothing else plays into the picture and you seem to confuse tax cuts at the corporate level with individuals. Both are two totally different things. To start with, we can assume cant we that we have a certain amount of demand in the global market place that goes up or down in small fractions. We can also assume that certain businesses can create demand via marketing ie new products, innovation etc. We can also assume I hope you can follow me that competitors can steal demand or customers and create market share via marketing, quality, service and whole bunch of things. So if GM were to sell cars cheaper in China or any other foreign country than Toyota and currently they cant sell cars below a certain price without losing money on each car, do you think reducing the tax rate on the sale of that car would allow them to sell the car cheaper? Of course it would. So if they can sell cars cheaper than Toyota do you think they might increase their market share? So now that you said yes twice, do you think selling more cars overseas and because of tax cuts, more jobs in Detroit could be created? I dont want to embarass you with a ton more examples in the real estate industry or manufacturing via the investment tax credit etc so I will leave you with that simple example. Your examples have nothing to do with my points and you are using seasonal retail examples to discuss global economics? Good try.

As for the individual situation, you seem to act as if everyone is in a static financial situation. I dont even understand your response that the doctor is already wealthy and has hired those people and I say what? Thats not the way it works. Do you think everyones standard of living is the same in each location wherever you live? Arent houses more expensive or cheaper depending on neighborhoods by you? Not all doctors or working wealthy are in the same boat with same standard of living all at the same time. That was a really silly response. Are you under this illusion that everyone buys certain things and consumes nothing else no matter what money they make and invest the extra? Thats not how it works, you make more money, you raise your standard of living and you consume more. Thats economics 101. Do you really think people dont raise their standard of living based on net after tax cash flow? You just pocket the money and dont buy a nicer car, more clothes, a higher mortgage, better vacation come on you cant be that financially ignorant.

I truly hate these debates. Why cant you act like DCIA and ask a question nicely or respond or refute nicely and we can share perspectives. I understand why John A and Anna Molly respond they way they do because they are idealogues and dont want to actually debate issues more than share common perspectives. As much as they hate me for having a different perspective, I at least understand where they are coming from and as to why they dont really debate or have a civil conversation with me. They arent looking for that here as they would prefer a blog coffee conversation among similar minded people. But if you want to have a discussion on corporate tax policy or how cash flow impacts economic behavior, dont be such an ass trying to prove yourself.

DCIA, the tax rate in the host country doesnt impact the competitiveness as long as everyone who competes in that country is paying it right? So its not a weak argument. So lets say Switzerland has a higher tax rate than the US but both GM and Toyota have to pay the Swiss tax when they sell their cars. Who does that impact? The people living in Switzerland right? The tax is paid by the Swiss buyers in the form of higher prices for their cars. So GM still can do business there and be competitive. Its the other way around, they cant pay Swiss tax and have to pay US tax, thats the problem. Japan doesnt tax Toyota on sales of Toyota cars in foreign countries. I am sorry if I am not making any sense or not explaining it very well. I also realize there are many other things than tax that will make a product competitive but you certainly dont want US tax policy to make it worse for global sales.

No offense to white women, but I'm going to have to go there-- Ginni Thomas is the last person Cain should be getting an interview with. That is the bitterest white female who tried to start some mess this year with Anita Hill, whom I am sure could kick her a$$. You don't call someone and ask for an apology when Ginni should have been all up in her husband's face with this mess. I mean was Ginni off her meds that day.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, ILTruth is indeed stranger then fiction! lol

A good indication of that is you're still here.

Cain's version of the blame game starts...... Chuck chuck bo buck, banana fana fo oh oh.....

Kirk

Oh please... spare me the "perfect world" analogies. You are living under the ASSUMPTION that any corporate tax cut will directly impact the price of their goods/services. Prices are not determined by tax rates, this is a lie that Fox News spreads to the uninformed. There are many, MANY, other factors that contribute to the price of a product... and anytime a business owner has a chance to pump-up the points on their margin, they are going to do that.

What, you think all business owners are just "nice guys", and they will pass the saving along to the customer. Ya, sounds like a great marketing ploy, but it's not real. If you can sell at the same price, with reduced taxes, you are going to take the margin jump and pocket the extra profits. People are greedy, that is human nature.

Here is what you don't understand with the whole "tax cuts create jobs" lie. Currently, businesses have the required employees to meet their demand. There is no need to hire more people, because they are getting the job done with their current staff. In fact, reports show that we are at the highest point of average "revenue per employee" in history... meaning that companies are making more with fewer people. The fact is, no company will hire more people, unless they NEED TO.

Let me give you a real world example. The newspaper industry used to employ thousands of people to get the paper to your doorstep. I'm talking about paper mills, trains to transport the giant spools, printing presses, warehouse teams, delivery... literally thousands were involved in that process. NOW, all those jobs are disappearing and the news is delivered, online, by a small internet team. Thousands of jobs are disappearing, and will never come back.

Here is another: Record stores, video rental stores, bookstores... all employed thousands upon thousands of people. All of them are disappearing as we transition to a world where we can download and stream music, movies and books right to our home. By comparison, those thousands of jobs were replaced by significantly smaller online teams who manage the streaming and download sites.

Now, if we cut taxes, will the lost jobs in all those industries come back? Will newspapers suddenly realize that they are saving a few extra bucks in taxes, so they will go back to delivering the paper to your house? Hell no. The owners will pocket the savings and continue to push the news online at a cheaper operating cost.

Will tax cuts bring back music stores, video rental stores, or bookstores? Will iTunes and Netflicks suddenly buy brick-and-mortar stores to fill with jobs because they got a tax cut? Hell no. They will pocket the savings and continue to deliver music and movies at the cheaper operating alternative.

Companies have utilized technology and smaller staffs to operate at more efficient levels, with less employees. Tax cuts will NOT change this. Tax cuts will NOT inspire them to go back to the old ways. The sad fact is that millions of jobs are being replaced by technology, and businesses require less people to operate. Throwing free money at businesses will not change this fact, and will not inspire a single owner to hire an employee when they can use technology to do the job more efficiently.

See Kirk, that's just it, they pay taxes overseas but not here. So in your example the Swiss benefit from tax revenues paid by that Corp. Here not so much as these Corporations are given a pass and in some cases a refund of others tax dollars. And don't forget the businesses here that actually pay the full 35% tax. Now you argue how fair and balanced this whole mess is.

First the pizza man cometh now the pizza man goeth.....wait pizza man, here's your tip .....DON"T COME BACK.......EVER AGAIN !!!!!

Hal: you seem to be a bit confused. This isn't a court of law...this is the court of public opinion. In that court, Mr. Cain is toast. He apparantly escaped the other one quite easily.

former-GOP: Your tax essay is in fact basically accurate, especially in relation to Kirk's thinking. I am a business person, who, throughout the 90's operated a part of my affair off shore. When considering all the many reasons for the remote operation, taxes were the least considered. Dirt cheap labor, along with an almost total absence of regulatory compliance and maintenance thereof was my primary reason to do what I did. Other than a pittance, all my product came back into the US where my market was and is. In 2003 my associates and I agreed to close that very profitable operation. The reason being, we were killing our US operation because we could not compete with the remote operation. None of us wanted to live there, so rather than continue and hope to develop a semblance of market there, which was very unlikely, we closed it, and have since devoted ourselves to serving our market from where we are. I've been in business over 35 years. In truth, tax rates have never been of any concern. Health care and pensions though are another matter. These require full time, specialized people to maintain, in addition to the concerns contributions. Doesn't matter how simple Kirk says the phrase "demand creates jobs" is, facts are, you are right. I would put it another way in today's world though. Demand creates increased productivity of goods and services. Regards

Addendum: former-gop: Sorry, I was doing 2 other chores while replying to you and omitted our even greater reason for closing that remote operation. The locals were getting to know what we were doing and our market very well. In fact, too damn well. I, and my associates remain convinced, had we stayed much longer we would have been destroyed by their ability to clone our business at a much lower cost than we could have sustained and we could have done nothing about it. Again, sorry about that.

The headline struck me - "PLAYING THE BLAME GAME".

This headline could describe nearly any day in the life of the Obama administration, and yet they save if for Mr Cain.

I guess honesty is more than we can hope for from "First Read" and the liberal media cesspool.

Article:

What ultimately matters is the story

Of course. I'd estimate that for each woman that says "Cain slapped me on the butt 20 years ago" results in a .1 drop in the unemployment rate when Obama gets elected in 2012.

If Romney stole candy from a store when he was 6, I suppose Obama's policies would do a much better job.

Yet , here you are in the "cesspool" with the rest of us. There do exist many from previous administrations who deserve "BLAME" for where the 99% of us are now. If you don't think that Phil GRAMM is high on that list, you are a willful ignorant.

Blame is only a "GAME" because your ilk refuses to agree to establish what the TRUE facts of our history are. Almost all "Liberals" would welcome the formation of a TRUTH COMMISSION. Conservatives would rather "preserve" their ability to peddle false choices based on fake "facts", like WMD in IRAQ. Yellow-cake from NIGER, Please!

Zorroaca44

Biteme- When EVERY BODY watched Bush drive the nation over a cliff ... it's not called blaming ... it's called witnessing!!!!

You arrogant GOP fools will never face up to what you did to this country ... and now you trot out this barrage of fools to select one to drag us down even further ... NO SHAME!!!

______________________________________________________________

To Zorraca; THANK YOU!!... It could not have been said any better in so few words. Brilliant!

,,,,,,Only one afterthought;

Obama does not deserve re-election for not living up to his promises (from 2007) to end the wars, and because his administration has NOT prosecuted even ONE criminal for destroying the economy during the "administration" of "W", (the "W"orst President in United States History).

DCIA--first thats the rub. We are the only industrialized nation that taxes in the US sales overseas. So it does reduce our competitiveness. If GM sells a car in Switzlerland they shouldnt be taxed in the US at least as Global tax policy currently exists. I am not advocating anything as much as discussing the current state.

Former GOP--you totally ignored the substance of my post to focus on the agenda you have. You are correct that not every dollar of tax cut necessarily goes into price (and its not a Fox news agenda which by you saying that gives away your objectivety and knowledge on the subject by the way) but if it doesnt got into price, then it goes into underlying value of the company. If they cant pass it on, then cash comes out of the company for the tax reducing its value. The owners of the company are public, then the people impacted on the value reduction are institutions which are pension plans mainly union, 401(k) accounts, endowments etc. You seem to think that greedy corporations are not owned by someone with financial consequences attached to taxes. Again you totally miss the boat. Your examples are ones in which tax cuts impact value not the price of the product. There are plenty of examples the other way. You cant just paint a broad brush just because my response doesnt fit your political agenda. I am trying to explain financial consequences to you and take off your rose colored agenda for a second and learn something.

Mac--I never said that taxes were the sole financial consideration but its completely wrong to say taxes are not a factor--thats just financially ignorant. I also never said anything regarding demand doesnt impact business but I live in the real world where global demand already exists and that it only moves in small fractions so to increase demand for your product doesnt necessarily or generally come from upward movements in demand. Unless you have a new product or new innovation, demand for your business comes from stealing market share via price, marketing, quality etc for the most part. Efficient operating model and improvements in productivity are huge factors and taxes are part of that equation. Former GOP was trying to act like taxes have no impact on job creation and being condescending as if he had a clue. Clearly he doesnt get it because he thought taking cash or any asset from a business is a zero sum game with no adverse consequences to somebody. If you really are in business, you must know thats not the case.

The Occupy anarchists are turning more violent. In the San Francisco bay area, the mecca for communist and socialist values in this country, violence erupted from the malcontents. Police in Seattle had to crack down on the violence. In Philadelphia, police had to break up riots as the Occupy bunch become more and more violent.

It's amazing that the media treats the Occupy crowd with such reverence while they nitpicked every detail of the non-violent Tea Party rallies. Turns out that arrest records (in the thousands for the Occupy crowd) show that the protestors are mostly white, young, and come from quite an affluent background. Wasn't that a problem for the media with the Tea Party, a lack of "diversity"? Doesn't seem to be problem for the media now with the Occupy rioters.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-arrest-records-many-occupy-wall-street-protesters-045625415.html

You can always tell who showed up for a riot based on how they're dressed.

If the OWS protesters ever do decide to embrace violence, you can bet thast you are going to be high up on their list, JoAnnaSmith1.

Packing heat always improves your outfit!

It's amazing that the media treats the Occupy crowd with such reverence while they nitpicked every detail of the non-violent Tea Party rallies.

After the passage of the Health Care law, the "non-violent Tea Party" flooded into town hall meetings, some of them wearing pistols in an attempt to intimidate citizens with other points of view, and shouted down their Congressional Representatives. Oh, yeah. You're a piece of work, Smiff.

Why did I know that I could depend on one of you’ll Yahoo’s to show up with your general horse puckey this morning.

T.P showed up Armed and Dangerous to events all over the U.S. This detracted from the message they were trying to send and lost them a whole group of natural constitutes.

The best thing OWS could do in the Oakland area is to step back and take a deep breath and work things out a little better. I’m seeing confusion from the Police as to instructions they are receiving from City administrators. I’m also seeing confusion from the OWS as to what they are actually trying to accomplish. Confusion reigns in this particular case and everybody needs to step back and clarify and find a way to move forward before somebody gets hurt unnecessarily.

I always think back to the Tea Party rally in Asotin, WA back in 2010 when we got this little nugget of joy...

"How many of you have watched the movie Lonesome Dove? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? He got hung. And that’s what I want to do with Patty Murray."

Another Cain story, will FR ever tire of writing these pieces? How many stories are needed to cover this. Perhaps a thread about Romney's reaction, Perry's response. Foolishness. Cain is not worth it, a person unfit for the office. He doesn't know China has nuclear weapons, wants to electrify and militarize the southern border, proposes tax policy that will bankrupt the country. He might be willing to fight Iran and plunge the middle east in further turmoil.

Debt ceiling negotiations get ignored, no posts about financial troubles in Europe or the upcoming G20. Surely all these issues will affect politics more importantly then what some also ran supposedly did years ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong but has FR yet featured the trajectory of the OWS? From the offset I have been wary to fully back this effort. Although I understand there angst and their intentions. In a fashion I agree with some of their grievances. However, from my viewpoint as a liberal, I see their movement slipping away from them. Although a good 90% are peace abiding and well intentioned, the 10% of anarchists will doom them all. The movement will lose the country's support if these arrests and clashes continue to propogate.

Like I posted the other week in agreement with Barney Frank, I liken their activities as detrimental to Democrats. My take is they feel they can make a change with demonstrations alone but will most likely fail to follow up with voting. There is nothing wrong with rallies and marches, I have participated in those before. They are the beginning to mobilization. They are a means to an end to bring attention to a problem, garner support for it and to make a change by voting.

However, from viewing more and more of these stories some of these people are engaging in blocking business entrances, blocking commerce ports, smashing windows, commiting crimes. Vandalims, violence? Showing bravado and brawn to clash with police.

That is not going to win the hearts and minds of the country. That will not make a change. Those actions allow detractors such as JAS1 and others to gloat in glee as this nonsense detracts from the real issues.

A serious discussion needs to take place to address their views. Yes corporations are making money hand over fist even while they cut the fat (employees) with earnest. I suggest, these occupiers be more proactive move your money from B of A, Wells Fargo and place in a credit union or small bank.

Move from your bank, boycott business that do not stand for your ideals, win the argument and vote your conscience. We can trump the 1% by using the power of money not by flexing brawn and bravado.

Thanks Mark I couldn't have said it better myself

JoAnnaSmith1

The Occupy anarchists are turning more violent.

Yeah, it was just terrible how that Iraq war vet attacked a police teargas canister with his skull.

YD-Mark: That is not going to win the hearts and minds of the country.That will not make a change. Those actions allow detractors such as JAS1 and others to gloat in glee as this nonsense detracts from the real issues.

No gloating Dog. We knew who these people were when they showed up, and they haven't proven themselves otherwise. And it's not 90% peaceful protestors and 10% anarchists. Those videos from Oakland show all the rioters to be very willing participants.

What's interesting is that Obama is attempting to tap into the Occupy rioters anger. Pelosi has come out supporting their efforts. Many Democrats see an opportunity like the GOP did with the Tea Party. Is this the kind of anger Obama and company want to be a part of? You don't see much media attention to that story.

The Occupy crowd has shown the country they have no message, just anger. And their actions are as predictable as we see the riots in Europe as austerity in implemented. It's the same thing now in this country. The county is bankrupt, it has no more money for the social programs the takers have become so accustomed and felt so entitled to. We see the results.

@Mark -- Then denounce the violence of the OWS and its supporters and I will join you.

@Houston -- Ignorant statement. When you put yourself in harm's way and do not obey the police unfortunate things will happen and people could get injured -- innocent or guilty.

IR - Despite Bank of America's decision to not charge for debit card usage. We are still going to switch to a local bank with free checking and no hidden fees on Nov. 5th. Small step I know.

Crossing my fingers that they don't arrest me when I close my accounts :}

@Mark -- Why would you be banking at big bad BOA to begin with? Why weren't you with a smaller, local bank and helping the local economy? So many of your neighbors would have benefited by the support of their local bank because they are more apt to loan. Good move, but why did it take you so long to do what is right?

Jack in Portsmouth

After the passage of the Health Care law, the "non-violent Tea Party" flooded into town hall meetings, some of them wearing pistols in an attempt to intimidate citizens with other points of view, and shouted down their Congressional Representatives. Oh, yeah. You're a piece of work, Smiff.

Teabaggers were also arrested in the Capitol building for blocking the halls to Congressional offices. One of them spat on a black congressman and another called civil rights hero John Lewis the "N" word on the steps of the Capitol. Then there were all the ugly racist signs they carried, some depicting the President of the United States as an African witch doctor.

And contrary to what JoAnnaSmith claims, the media treated the teabag "movement" as something that must be treated with respect.

Sorry, but every thing that goes wrong in the vicinity of an Occupy protest isn't a direct result of their actions, and the underlying quest to achieve justice and reestablish the American Dream will win out in the end.

Occupy Wall Street, with its defiant style of non-violent protest, has consistently clashed with the NYPD’s obsession with order maintenance, resulting in hundreds of mostly unnecessary arrests and a significant infringement on the basic rights of free speech and assembly.

Prior to the massive protests at the WTO in Seattle, protest policing in the U.S. was a largely casual affair punctuated with isolated outbursts of police misconduct. After Seattle, police departments embarked on a major rethinking of how to handle increasingly large and militant protests and, most importantly, how to handle the growing use of large coordinated direct actions. Without too much concern for First Amendment rights, police departments have tended to take one of two approaches and sometimes a bit of both.

The first is the strategic repression of direct action movements in particular. Beginning with the Miami police’s aggressive response to the FTAA protests in 2003, many departments resorted to using surveillance, agents provocateurs and negative publicity before an event, followed by massive deployments, “less lethal” weaponry and restriction on protest permits, including the creation of isolated “protest pits.”

Similar problems emerged in 2004, during the Republican National Convention in New York City. Permits were denied to use Central Park and other traditional protest locations; barricades were used extensively at peaceful, permitted demonstrations; and over a thousand people were preemptively arrested, with all the charges eventually dropped by the Manhattan DA.

The other approach has been to attempt to micromanage demonstrations in such a way that dissent becomes a tightly controlled and dispiriting experience. This is accomplished through the use of large numbers of officers, extensive restrictions on access to demonstrations through choke points, penning in and subdividing crowds with barricades, heavily restricting march permits, and making multiple arrests, sometimes using excessive force for minor violations.

This latter strategy is especially common in New York City, which has an almost limitless supply of police officers (upwards of 30,000) to use for controlling crowds. During the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, we have seen a gross overreaction to peaceful demonstrators engaging in minor violations of the law, such as using a megaphone, writing on the sidewalk with chalk, marching in the street (and across the Brooklyn Bridge), standing in line at a bank to close an account, and occupying a public park past closing hours.

The effect of this has been a low-level criminalization of dissent that serves only a limited legitimate public safety function. The important thing to keep in mind here is that while some protests have been illegal and disruptive, they have been consistently nonviolent in character. This raises the question of whether the tight and expensive control of these demonstrations is an unwarranted interference in people’s right to free expression that exceeds any legal objective.

http://occupywallst.org/article/rule-law-vs-forces-order/

Mark I've dealt with Local banks for years. Used to have to switch ever three years as They were bought out but that has stabilized here lately. My wife however who was a BOA customer for over 40 years has finally had enough and is moving to my bank. Small steps make for steady progress.

xx

Ben - Check my previous posts. I have always spoken against violence, it doesn't matter if it is politically motivated or not. Spoke against the riots in London over the summer even the riots by the Vancouver fans when they lost in the NHL title game. I don't support the violence by the small number in OWS.

By the way, B of A gave me a good loan on my car. Now have the title, don't need them anymore.

Joanna - Be honest, I try to be. The vast majority of the protestors are peaceful only a small minority are causing trouble. They are not takers, they are Americans Joanna. By the way, I didn't believe it was wise for Democrats to try to latch onto this because it could be detrimental to them if things got out of hand.

I do all my banking with a credit union, and I highly recommend it!

The Occupy crowd has shown the country they have no message

Smiff,

You don't get it. In the Vietnam era people said to the protestors: Stop complaining about what's wrong and tell us your solution!

The first step then--as it is now--was for citizens (key word there, Smiff; pay attention) to formulate the right questions. There are a number of things out of balance in our society today, so it's a complex set of questions, not simple, as you would have it. The protestors are not a monolith. They are learning from one another and beginning to understand what they have in common. In time, a more coherent view will emerge. You're scared. And you should be. Because once again, "The times they are a-changin'."

@Mark -- You still specifically did not denounce the OWS violence. Why not???? Don't you want to distance yourself from the violence? Come on, you have to live up to your word. Denounce this particular violence. What no guts to go on the record on denouncing the violence of the OWS?

Also, so you sold out to a big bank for your benefit. Now that is following your principles. Better not chide others for doing the same thing.

John B,Des Moines: Sorry, but every thing that goes wrong in the vicinity of an Occupy protest isn't a direct result of their actions, and the underlying quest to achieve justice and reestablish the American Dream will win out in the end.

Just another apologist for the violence the Occupy bunch is creating.

YD-Mark: The vast majority of the protestors are peaceful only a small minority are causing trouble.

You're splitting hairs Mark. These videos show the actions of the rioters and they all look like willing participants. They are not peaceful Mark, they are trying to get their way through violent actions.

Must agree with JoAnna Smith1 on this one. OWS is showing its true colors as this nonsense drags on. These people have overstayed their welcome. The city of Los Angeles has bent over backwards to accommodate OWS by such actions as suspending prohibitions on overnight camping in public parks but instead of acknowledging and responding in kind the OWS people just want more and more with a corresponding increase in damage to public property and harm to local business.

Mark D, a fine and reasonable post #2.8. And I wish you the best in your bank change! Would suggest wearing a disguise when you make the switch........

Ben-636050

Ignorant statement. When you put yourself in harm's way and do not obey the police unfortunate things will happen and people could get injured -- innocent or guilty.

You're right. You just made an ignorant statement. The dictators in Libya, Egypt, and Syria tell their people the same thing. Should the Arabs should have all stayed home and let people like Gaddafi continue their brutal regimes?

The potential for violence among the OWS demonstrators is definitely worrisome. But so far it seems to have been minimal. The article linked to by JAS1 even said most of the arrests have been for NON violent offenses, despite how she misrepresented its contents, evidently assuming that people wouldn't actually read the article.

As I noted a couple days ago, the media narrative is "Cities' patience wears thin" with the protesters, and the Washington Post accompanied their article on the Oakland protest with a photo of a cop petting a kitten and didn't publish the significant photos of the injured Iraq war vet being carried away on a stretcher and another "violent" protester in a wheelchair being pushed out of the teargas cloud by other people.

JoAnnaSmith1

Just another apologist for the violence the Occupy bunch is creating.

You could say with more justification that JoAnnaSmith is just another apologist for the violent tea bag movement. There were three broken windows during the Oakland general strike. There were also windows broken in the offices of congressional Democrats who dared to vote for the Affordable Care Act.

The nutcase that encouraged the breaking of windows on his web site got rewarded with guest appearances on Fox News as an "expert" of some sort. Now, his crazy book advocating violence against government has been cited as an inspiration for an actual plot to kill government workers that was just broken up.

What a sad state we are in if someone such as Slick Rick Perry or Herman Cain would become President.

America is waking up and we are going defeat this Radical Right that is hell bent against the people.

Ben-636050

@Mark -- You still specifically did not denounce the OWS violence. Why not????

I'm sure he does. And so do I. A bunch of protesters did vandalize a building in Oakland last night. They are idiots.

JoAnna at this point your just humping my leg. Don't make me use this piece of rolled up newspaper on you.

. Don't make me use this piece of rolled up newspaper on you.

LOL Floyd!

Problem is Sniffy - likes it!

You might want to try a 'shock collar' instead! ;o)

Laughing out Loud!! Very funny IR and Feisty.

Have you called your Senators?

BUILD BABY BUILD

Made in America.

I love Ann Curry... but she needs to be more stern. She allowed the RNC chairman to use the (Cain scandal) interview as an opportunity to spread vicious republican propaganda, extend/expand the republican agenda, and to smear our president. Sometimes, there is a time to cut in and/or cut out (abruptly end the interview). Maybe NBC should practice the Fox "fair and balanced" (LOL) model.

actually the "Ignore Author" button works reallllly well on jssmith1!

Call your Senator.

BUILD BABY BUILD

So true Paul. I have many from the Radical Right placed on ignore.

"actually the "Ignore Author" button works reallllly well on jssmith1!"

Hypocrisy, thy name is Conservative.

Yes, anyone who is violent in any way needs to IMMEDIATELY be rejected and turned away. Any and all violence or property damage should be prosecuted. I said that days ago in a post which FR Conservatives studiously avoided.

Those same FR Conservatives who are calling loudly for OWS heads on a platter were just as loudly defending the right of Tea Party members to pack weapons in public for purposes of intimidation and carry signs proclaiming the need to "water the tree of Liberty with the blood of Patriots and tyrants." Those same FR Conservatives didn't disclaim violence but rather sniffed haughtily about "fringe elements" who weren't "really" Tea Partiers when things like this happened;

The Yuma office of Rep. Raúl Grijalva is closed Thursday after it was vandalized.

A shattered window and bullet inside the office were found earlier, said Adam Sarvana, the spokesman for the District 7 Democratic congressman.

Just after 10 a.m., damage to the office's front window was reported, said Leanne Worthen, a Yuma police spokeswoman.

Officers found what appears to be a single bullet hole in the window, Worthen said in a release. The incident took place sometime between 5 p.m. on Wednesday and Thursday morning when the damage was reported, she said.

Yuma police and U.S. Capitol police are investigating the incident.

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/072910_grijalva_yuma/window-shot-out-grijalvas-yuma-office/

There's no denunciation when Conservatives show up here bragging about how once society breaks down they'll be the survivors because supposedly have all the guns.

So get off your high horses. NO ONE has advocated violence on behalf of Occupy protesters, and they're not going away. Deal with it.

Amen, Paul S, Amen.

(and floyd and betty, you two are a STITCH! Gobble Gobble,...)

making Thanksgiving plans today and the annual watching of Planes, Trains and Automobiles is on my mind!

For the record this conservative deplores demonstrations and violence regardless of cause. Tea Party demonstrations, OWS, whatever - to me the only thing any of this demonstrates is a lack of discipline and rejection of personal responsibility. Look at just about any public protest - invariably it is a big blame fest offering no real solutions to the problem being addressed.

Continuing in the interests of full disclosure I am a gun owner but would never under any circumstances carry in public.

Disagreement is healthy. Intelligent debate leads to beneficial compromise. I'd like to see more of that on all levels.

Please do not whack me with a newspaper.

Mark in Socal - Thanks for the shout out.

Yes intelligent debate is beneficial. It would be good to see it more often at FR instead of always seeing the opposition as "evil incarnate".

I will echo your statement, this liberal deplores violence at demonstrations regardless of who does it. When the crowds riot in Cannes for the G20, vandalizing or harming people I will be against that too.

Mark in SoCal I don't whack many with newspapers just Yahoo's that insist on putting up the same old tired stuff of whom JS1 is one of the main perpetrators. I think that I told Mark- Yellowdog once that my main purpose is to make us think about what we're saying and doing a little. I thank you for bringing a level head to my little part of the world this morning/evening. I may not totally agree with you on any thing but the idea that if we can talk about it we can solve it. Sooner or later we are going to have to.

Mark D and Redneck,

Right on!!

John B, have you actually had any personal experience with the OWS crowd? I never attended a Tea Party event nor any protests so I can speak to the level of violence or lack thereof at those events. However, I can provide first hand personal experience with the OWS crowd. First, its really disengenous to call this a movement given that the numbers and size of these crowds is incredibly small in comparison. A few hundred or even a few thousand people is a pimple on an elephant's tushy in comparison to the Tea Party, the immigration protests and even the Iraq war protests. Unless the movement gains some traction, this is really a nonevent at this point. Second, at least here in Chicago, there is clearly a portion of the crowd that is made up of union sympathizers, older professional protestors, young idealistic people who believe in the cause but more than half of the crowd (and maybe someone would say its different in other cities) is truly made up of nasty, violent, mad anarchists who given the chance would riot, loot, steal and cause mayhem given half a chance. These people are not looking for change in any real sense as they are the equivalent of the black panthers or any other mad angry idealogues. This represenation doesnt play well to the left leaning media so you dont see them much on TV or written about but just like the right wing nut jobs you see at the abortion clinics or like the Westboro church protestors at funerals, many of these protestors are the left wing nut jobs. Its not surprising that violence breaks out and although I would like to say lets not get holier than thou on either side, there were quite a few liberal posters claiming all sorts of nasty stuff about the tea party people. The stuff thrown out by these OWS is far more despicable to the american way of life and far more violent--even amoung themselves.

Mark: you think demonstrations unruly? undisciplined? LOL...you ARE an American??? Kirk: your experience doesn't speak to the support this movement has, which is far, far beyond the Tea Party...nearly 70% in the last poll I saw. Give it a rest. Whether they wear suits or not, most Americans get what the OWS crowd means when they protest for fairness. The Let 'em Eat Cake crowd just can't seem to win those kinds of hearts and minds. Americans are just not a hateful bunch in the aggragate.

...and while you're answering that question, here's another one...

When do we get an apology?

Noid,

When do we get an apology?

Wishful thinking. They have no conscience, therefore are incapable of admitting any wrong doing.

Aw, gee...isn't that a shame.

We going to see a perp walk with Corzine? I'm sure the media will follow it with this picture:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/barack-obamas-top-wall-st-fundraiser-under-investigation_n_1072199.html

Gee, you don't suppose they're waiting for more FACTS, do you!

We going to see a perp walk with Corzine?

That usually happens AFTER an arrest...but maybe I'm just a stickler for details like that.

Yes, Bob, it is an important article about Arizona. It's an article showing how slimy and self-serving the governor of Arizona is. Taking the law into her own hands to secure votes for her cronies.

It may not be too late to stop payment on the checks!

My many friends who contributed to and volunteered for John Edwards didn't give up the ghost until he admitted his guilt in public after almost a year.

That's the problem: no matter how much they are discredited, abused and used by the right, they come back for more.

Family values is a great line the republicans have used over the years. Its hard to live up to those standards when you don't follow them. Remember do as I say not as I do.

They are the family values party all right. They just have not said a family of what.... lol

Who's on FOXED OUT FAKE News? The same Gestapo bunch they have on everyday; poor imitations of Colonel Klink, Kriminalrat and Sergeant Schultz.

*YAWN*

Bob if you don't like MSNBC than why do you know there line-up so well. Your just a closet liberal afraid to come out.

Ah, the great debate! I am still sort of leaning towards "less filling"...

HELLO! They're (FOX and MSNBC) both radically DISTORTED and slanted ENTERTAINMENT networks...anyone relying on either as their primary news source is getting half-a-loaf at best, and probably less. It must be comforting to be emotionally salved and coddled in the bosom of those whose views you agree with, but living in that kind of "echo-chamber" only serves to reinforce and calcify the diametrically opposed, tired points of view I see being rehashed by the usual suspects here on a daily basis.

Fox is a joke

MSNBC is a joke

Opinion shows are not NEWS even if they are about the events of the day...Give Bill-O and Rachel a rest and try something a little more challenging to your sensitive palates, you might even like it!;

www.pbs.org/newshour/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/?state=nwa

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://www.factcheck.org/

dangerfield GREAT POST!!!!!!!

Bob,

I watched MSNBC this morning..Morning Joe..I saw Paul Ryan spouting off his propaganda..You must have missed it..

df,

...MSNBC is a joke...

He says, with no sense of irony that he makes this his daily/weekly home of sorts,...

Bravo, man of conviction, bravo!

Having no rebuttal she again shoots the messenger in hopes of killing the message...Bravo Clara! Bravo!

This is a BLOG not the cable "news" network that shares the same call letters...and is a JOKE, just like FOX!

Sorry that the truth, and posting links to REAL news sources so upset you...maybe you can have my post "flagged as advertising"...

Hey Bob --- on Fox today, like most days, it is all righties, all the time. They give both sides...right...and righter. MSNBC is a left wing propaganda network. Fox is a right wing propaganda network. Whats your point??

JOE SCARBOROUGH is not a Liberal. MSNBC is liberal media, FOX "NEWS" is mostly propaganda.

um, you do realize they're not there for the annual rollout of the world's movies?

Redistricting is not only the province of the conservatives....In Illinois, it was done at the stroke of a pen by a governor who is not conservative, nor Republican, and its intent was to redraw district lines that would eliminate the Republican seats completely, and insure that those already elected could not stand for re-election in the district where they were first elected. So.....at least in Illinois, the intent is to wipe out everything but loyal Chicago Machine Democrats.

Did the Governor of Illinois and a Democratic majority conspire to overturn a procedure established through public referendum in order to extend their dominance? That's what happened in Arizona, where a 21-6 majority evidently isn't dominant enough so they overturned public will in order to make the process more partisan.

I think the entire nation could gain a lot by emulating Iowa's process. A nonpartisan committee works in secrecy to produce an electoral map that must 1) have no consideration for Democratic/Republican balance 2) not split cities unless the municipality in question is too large to represent with just one office holder 3) be geographically compact and 4) have evenly matched populations. Once the map is publicly unveiled the legislature must approve or reject the ENTIRE plan, with no idea what the next map will look like. They can reject 2 maps.

Unfortunately Republicans became extremely aggressive in trying to take the nation in a partisan direction starting with the abusive and probably illegal Texas redistricting of 2003 directed by Tom Delay. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/01/AR2005120101927.html

You got that right. The Republicans will win the election for him.

Peace

Is it too early in the day to award the "best use of humor" award to Auntie Fascist?

I believe what the President told Jay Leno was that he would wait until everyone's voted off the island,...

Really funny stuff. Love my President! This will be an 'Easy 8',...he smoked John McCain,...and with the crop of contenders currently jockeying,...he'll smoke them, too!

Yes I can imagine that 3am phone call. It goes like this:

"What do ya mean China is about to nuke us? No way! They don't have nukes yet. I'm going back to bed."

Does anybody else envision Rob jumping up and down flailing his arms uncontrollably when he types these posts?

Huh? Rapists? Rioters? Where did you get your information from? Do you have access to sources that we don't?

If so, pray tell!

Peace.

open your eyes --- hell even msnbc's home page has video of the fires and tear gas.

Even some of the female occupiers are speaking out about the molestations that occur daily and how the so called leaders of these tent cities are pressuring them to not report the rampant crime.

google away.

another obama hater checks in. thousands of people peacefully protested, a few dozen were arrested, but you go ahead and make your sweeping, inaccurate generalizations if you want to continue looking like a fool. :) (rapists? heck, why not call them child molesters, go for the big lie, not just an exaggeration!)

I blame the republicans for encouraging the wealth divide in this country with their own version of class warfare. See, its easy to make vague, general partisan posts, isnt it? :)

But ya gotta love rob..who no doubt hates msnbc..except when they have stories that he approves of. And we all know that news stories NEVER focus on the negative. lol.

Rob, that "icky feeling in your tummy" that you have had, for as long as you can remember.

it's called hate. try to let it go man. its tearing you up.

I warned a few days ago of attention seekers, hangers-on, troublemakers, and people who seek to disrupt and discredit the Occupy movement. As long as the core of Occupy protesters work to stay away from these types who are attracted to ANY movement getting media attention they will succeed.

Rob is missing the point. This isn't a Right v Left issue. If it were you wouldn't find Occupy protesters even at places like Obama campaign offices. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111022/NEWS/111022007/Occupy-Iowa-protesters-demonstrate-Obama-campaign-office

This is a BIG v SMALL issue. It's Wall Street v Main Street. It's giant corporations using their clout to squash the American Dream.

John B: warned a few days ago of attention seekers, hangers-on, troublemakers, and people who seek to disrupt and discredit the Occupy movement.

Every day it's another step back for the Occupy supporters. To them, it's always someone elses fault. It is the liberal way.

JB: If it were you wouldn't find Occupy protesters even at places like Obama campaign offices.

Obama is the biggest recipient of Wall Street cash ever. He's trying to tap into the Occupy anger, is supporting the Occupy "values", but how hypocritical is that? Obama has called Jon Corzine "His guy on Wall Street". How's that worked out again?

You right wingers republican/tea bag party folks, you crack me up. You all sound like the establishment from back in the day when they talked about the anti war protests in the sixties. How history repeats its self.

You are 100% right Smitty.....

The establishment trounced the progressive fools back then by voting in 5 of 6 republican presidents and if this group of deadbeats keeps going I suspect the same exact result!

Oh and sorry to say but the "tea bag party" is at least civilized and truly peaceful. But I'm sure you will never accept that fact.

Tear gas is not evidence of rioting. Neither are arrests.

Clearly, several protesters committed violent and destructive acts, and I encourage full prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

The remainder still have a constitutional right to protest and express their opinion. Unless you think they need to form a corporation in order to have rights.

The tea party is peaceful, unless you count that guy who flew his plane into the Austin tax office.

or the one's that stomped that guy on video

or the ones that called the president of our nation a ni##er

Or the one who shot out Grijalva's office window. Or the one who...

Or all of these peaceful teabaggers that showed up with loaded guns and signs about watering something with blood. What peaceful patriots. Those OWS hoodlums with their drums and banjos should all be thrown into jail.

Paul Ryan is such a joke. He is all up in arms (because finally the President is letting the country know just what is going on instead of saying silent and getting beat up by the repugs). "He is dividing the country" said the man whose big plan was to make sure that if grandma/grandpa is poor, they should die quickly. But was quite supportive of the teabaggers. I remember Bachmann and others hanging out of the window of the capital with a big sign egging the teabaggers on. I remember members of Congress addressing them saying that they will "shut down government. What patriots, all of that was uniting the country (at least according to dear sweet Paul.

Or the ones who stomped on that woman's head at Rand Paul's town hall.

Or the ones who made a Change poster of the President with a bullet hole through his head.

Nope, really peace loving, right?

Ahhh, yes the women wearing a disguise that rushed a congressional nominee and his security team that had to be knocked to the ground and restrained. Yes I remember it well. I don't quite remember the other 4 or 5 examples you and your libbie friends cite that took place over the past TWO years as opposed to over 1000 ARRESTS over 90 DAYS --- numerous assaults, molestations, rapes, illegal drug possession and sales, drunk and disorderly, public urination, and destruction of property. But please do keep up the comparisons -- they are all entertaining.

Wow hard to believe but msnbc finally is reporting on one of rapes at OWS on the heals of the riots in Oakland. 18yr old female from my home state raped in her tent by an occupier that groped some other female days before.

I'm hearing that tent city in new york is filling up with parolees from Riker's Island. Go 99er's!

But the tea partiers are the problem in this country so says my leftie friends.

How embarrassing for Obama, Pelosi, and the dems.

Good luck getting elected with fires in the streets. I'm sure swing voters will be impressed with the climate obama has wrought.

Rob in ma Well bless your heart, keep talking you your the best entertainment on here.

Rob in ma-3189632 "you and your libbie friends"

Why do you assume that I am a libbie, as you call it? Because I do not refer to our lawfully elected President by a derogatory nickname?

Here is how it works. Speaker of the House John Boehner. I did not call him anything except his name, even if I criticize his policy. Former President Richard Nixon. It is easy. Looking at policy outside a black and white, us vs. them perspective, requires the courage to support your positions without your friends to back all of them.

Lets try. I support universal healthcare and re-instating Glass-Steagall. I support the death penalty. I support and exercise the right to bear arrms by citizens. I believe that a corporation is not properly interpreted as a person in the same way a natural-born person is. I believe the office of the president welds more power than the constitution intended (notice I hold the position even though a Democrat is in Office?)

Several of the founding fathers woud not consider the term liberal an insult.

Becky good comparison. But lets not insult the memory of Moe, Larry, and the greatest one Curly. A better reference is to the 3 blind mice. I apologize to all mice and rats out there by my comments.

PS. Does this make Bachmann Shemp?? lol

I remember being scared when the Republicans nominated McCain, because I could imagine voting for him myself, and Palin was a brilliant choice for exciting the Republican base.

But this season's crop of primary candidates? If America voted for any one of them over re-electing President Obama we would deserve the inevitable Depression that would follow.

Clara KCMO, Please don't insult Shemp's name in that way. Its putting Shemp in bad light. How about Mrs. Marvin the Martain.

"I claim THIS planet for the Tea Party! mmm"

remember, he said he didn't need to know "details" about foreign policy..lol.

another sarah palin.

Just like sarah in it for the money. Be out there enough and the koch brothers will back you.

Oh you mean like bush did for 8 years?

Oh, if it's morons you are seeking, I suggest you look at the Republican Party. Face it, dude, there is not a Republican out there anywhere that is of Obama's intellectual stature. But having said that, has he led us strongly? No. That's the disappointment. He has tried to play nice with idiots, or morons, if you will. But he still has time to use not only his significant brain power and education, but to INSPIRE people with what is now only potential. On the other hand, Republicans can provide leadership. It's easy to lead lemmings with hatred, divisiveness, ignorance, flag waving, and meaningless resolutions about "In God we trust," but beyond that--- intellectual vapidity.

to Rick-546746

give it a break, blaming Bush is getting old.. like a new basketball coach blaming the old coach for what happened 4 years ago. Get a life and move on moron. Really, is that all you have? That's the problem with you democrats, you just repeat what you've heard from other liberals..

Oh no Ron, we are not playing basketball....not even close.

Until the GOP/TP accepts the facts that the Bush administration policies have and continue to cause problems for this country will we start to get out of the hole we're in.

When they acknowledged the damage done to everyday hard working Americans and start showing us they want to help fix the problems and not continually say no, maybe then our country and it's citizens will be able to get a life.

Furthermore, it is not what we've heard, it is what we live with every single day. Take the advise your party keeps spouting, take responsibility for the havoc you have wrought.

Here's the thing; Obama has to play nice because, like it or not, he is a representation of all African Americans with goals and endeavor to excell and reach those goals, so he must comport himself in a fitting manner, just as Jackie Robinson did when integrating baseball. To truly get angry or lose control is to play right into the hands of racists who believe that blacks are little more than children, inferior and volatile and undisciplined. The calmer he stays, the madder they become.

Ok, all you liberals who want to blame Bush for Obama's inability to lead, let's go back to one of your better presidents, Jimmy Carter and blame him for everything going forward? How does that sound, pretty stupid, right? That's exactly how you sound blaming Bush because you heard Obama blame Bush! What Obama does is give lip service, absolutely no substance! The man has no backbone, has done nothing on his own, has never had a job, never ran a company and isn't a leader. He thinks he's Robin Hood. If he actually earned it, he wouldn't want someone else taking it and giving it to the lazy, uneducated, freeloaders (democrats and other liberals).

When you go from a surplus under Clinton to a deficit under Bush and the next guy inherits said deficit, it''s kind of hard not to blame the previous guy. If Clinton left Bush a surplus and Bush left Obama a similar surplus and Obama turned that surplus into a deficit I'd see your point. As for him being Robin Hood, as someone else put it (someone From Indiana, I think), he's not trying to stop capitalism, he simply wants a limit on greed...that's basically what's behind the protests, when people feel that everything is being taken away from them, they feel there's nothing left to do but revolt. You speak of "lazy, uneducated, freeloaders..." if that's what they are to you then you should be happy that the President is attempting to create jobs and opportunities for higher education for them because that should alleviate their kind...please, find someone to hug.

The buck don't stop at the Obama White House, it keeps getting passed around like a hot potato. After 3 years as President an all the inept decisions they have made, the economy is worse off than when he became President. All of his economic decisions always include a big government tax payer funded payback to the Unions in the form of Union Construction Jobs, Union Government Employee Jobs and Union Teaching Jobs. He is just politics as usual and trying to make sure he has Union backing and the Union's 400 million dollar donation for the next election. He spent a year on Health care while the economy collapsed around us. Any one elected in the next election will be better than this administration i am sure, 4 more years of Obama and I'll be homeless and broke. Cain has great ideas and I am sure it was something he said in the 90's that spurred the sexual harassment case, but that is much better than the president we had (Clinton) that whipped his thing out any chance he got before and after he was president.

ron-2523617

Statistically, liberals are generally more educated than conservatives. That does not mean conservatives are less intelligent, or uncaring monsters.

I do suggest conservatives, however, distance themselves from the racist and inflammatory element that attacks people over positions and policies and find themselves an intellectual with popular appeal besides Ayn Rand.By most accounts she was an uncaring monster :)

Barak Obama did not take my firearms away, like I was told. He did not sieze my classic car. He did not nationalize the American economy.

He did support universal health care. He is in favor of jobs programs to decrease unemployment and stimulate demand. He does favor tax reform. The first is only considered liberal in the Unites States, the rest of the free world considers it a basic human right. The other two would not excluded one from being a mainstream republican prior to the rise of the neocon right.

It is not inherently liberal to avoid cutting jobs in a recession. It is simply a response based upon well accepted economic theories. If one opposes the theory, then show how the alternative has worked in the long term. Deregulation historically produces an initial boom of several years in a market followed by instability and a bust. That is why the regulations were introduced in the first place. That is not a political position, it is an observation based upon historical evidence. The response to this is the political position. One could respond that selective deregulation avoids this in a certain case. One could respond that if individual business size is limited through anti-trust law, this is avoided to an extent. The response that liberals are lazy is not a position or a solution. It is a premise. Policy should not be built solely around a few exceptionally intelligent and highlly driven individuals any more than around lazy bums. It should be built to accomodate a person with some ambition, intelligence, and a moderate work ethic. That way it works for most people.

Sen. Jon Kyl's office at least came up with something original: His remark was "not intended to be a factual statement."

North GA did you have the same outrage when Obama spoke about the "57" states?

Kyl's comments were prepared and entered into the Congressional Record, President Obama's comments were off the cuff during a grueling campaign flurry and he immediately corrected himself,...

MOMINNJ

You proved the point: saying "57 states" is clearly a misstatement, saying China doesn't have nukes is pure ignorance.

Thanks, Amy. Can you believe Mominnj's remark? I've seen this so many times, it's beyond laughable. I think conservatives believe we need to impeach Obama because he might have said 57 states. seriously, they will not let this go because it's all they have on him, LOL!My God, I say things like that twenty times a day, and who doesn't HONEsTLY? Are Republicans this ignorant that they cannot distinguish between a slip of the tongue, and sheer ignorance? Not KNOWING the fundamentals of what state the "shot heard round the world" was in, not knowing funamentals about Paul Revere's ride, not knowing China has had nuclear wepaons for decades is something else entirely. The Republicans are running UNEDUCATED buffoons, and theya re running on a platform of willful ignorance. The more ignorant the candidate, the more wholeheartedly embraced he is by the Republican base. Let's face it, only education can help, but how?

You said it North Ga, it is all they've got on him.....pathetic isn't it?

Why is it necessary to wrap your comment in the twice-stated,"I am a liberal Democrat?"
Just wondering.

The problem is that cain was grossly incompetent (and perhaps even directly lied) on handling the matter, and we don't need grossly incompetent people running for president.

not to mention his foreign policy idiocy.

that's the true BOTTOM LINE here.

I too am a liberal Democrat, very liberal, and I also smell several rats. this whole story does not make sense....$35,000 settlement? Really? That is all her sensebilities were worth, $35,000? The other two are nefarious at best......sounds like Herman Cain might have been an easy mark but a serial sexual offender...gonna have to prove that with more than gossip. If however he is a dirty old man then he can't run for President.......we have enough of those in our government as it is.

Montefan

It's possible Herman Cain was drinking during these incidents where women accused him of harrassment. Sober Herman Cain may be a perfect gentleman.

Don't forget George W. drank until he was 40. People do change.

Amy - Didn't the incident with him comparing his wife's height happen in his office with - as he said - the door open? Are you saying he was drinking heavily while at work? Seems unlikely. If he had an alcohol problem wouldn't there have been stories about that over the years?

He had been in numerous corporate settings for over 30 years at this point in the 1990s - with zero complaints. Again - the only one we have heard details about is the $35,000 case.

or maybe the women were drinking and thought someone finally noticed them and they wanted to brag about it?

NoGA - The reason I said I was a liberal Democrat is that I am!

I try to be fair-minded. I post here often in support of the President whom I will vote for next November. I also post often about Mitt - calling him "For Pete's Sake Mitt" and saying he has an incurable case of Flip Flop Flu! I always refer to Perry as Scary Perry and say he is Texas Toast. But I think Herman Cain is not guilty of these charges for the reasons I cited - and I guess I wanted to drive home the point that I am not a Tea Partier - but rather a life-long Democrat.

Goldie may be a character witness but we have an actual witness to his harassment in Chris Wilson.

It may be that it is only when he's been drinking but that is no excuse.

Nice copy-paste... as if nobody can do a web search for your exact comment posted all over like it's a circus flyer.

Monetfan, Mr. Cain is or is not guilty of sexual harrassment. However, Mr. Cain is guilty of not knowing that China has been a nuclear power since the 1960's. Mr. Cain is guilty of not knowing nor especially wanting to know other countries exist. Mr. Cain is guilty of being for and against women's rights. Mr. Cain is guilty of basing our economic policy on "if you're poor, don' t be, if you don't have healthcare, get some, if you don't have a job, get one". Mr. Cain's answer to immigration is an electric fence. Mr. Cain's message, manner, delivery required for holding the Office of President of the United States excludes him from serious consideration except for those whose only plan or platform is to "beat President Obama". Not good enough and not electable. Next please.

Greywolf - I often copy and paste when I write a long post. I post on various blogs. What is wrong with that??!!

Geesshhh - I feel like I need to show some sort of documentation that I am a Democrat - a wife and mother - a political junkie - etc...

Skip Murray - I agree with what you said! I NEVER said I supported Mr. Cain!

But can't someone simply voice an opinion about an issue such as this? I personally think Cain is being truthful - but of course I would never, ever vote for him.

Just heard that woman number two got paid a nuisance fee of $45,000. So that makes a total of $80,000 paid to two women.

Again - I would never vote for Cain! I am a supporter of President Obama! Honestly!!

But these $35,000 and $45,000 payments are what are known in the legal community as "nuisance fees." Nothing more.

Actually Politico clarified that Woman #1 got the $45,000 - not the previously reported $35,000 - and Woman #2 got $35,000.

Monetfan, I wasn't critisizing you. I was just putting forth my opinion. That was the whole point.

Skip

Monetfan: you don't know as much as you think you do. You actually think that because hush money is paid nothing ever happened? Settlements happen also when one side believes going to court will cause them to pay out much MORE money. Let's not just always assume women lie because Mr. Cain has a few people who say THEY didn't see anything. There are several people besides the three women now coming forward to say they witnessed these incidents and if there's nothing going on RELEASE the record.

$35-K or $45-k was serious money for people who work an entire year for that amount, even in yesterdays dollars.. in today's dollars, 20 years later.. the amount becomes much more significant.

As a man -- and a man who has been around the block a few times in my own life...and a independent voter, hermin cain smacks of an arrogant, lying, manipulating, con-man, a religious hypocrite, and a full-blown womanizing pimp.

His hat suits this image, very well....

And, when I read all this right-wing SHILL-swill, posted by of all cain's little t-goper deceitful troopers trying to put HUMPTY-HERMIN-DUMPTY, all together again, it further convinced me that t-baggers are truly mentally challenged to a degree that is -- pukish and disgusting.

Read today's updates on AP about the consultant who said he personally witnessed several of these incidents, including one in a Virgina restaurant where others intervened to tell Cain to back off his harrassment of a young staffer. After the allegations are finally released in detail and they will be, make no mistake, you'll see a raft of apologists here talking about how the women should have just 'taken it' and not stood up to him. (Until the next scandal involving a democrat...then of course, they'll rediscover their righteous outrage.)

I LOVE watching the repubs eat each other!

Festivus Maximus Conservatus!

A dish served best steaming hot, with a side of hypocrisy! Delish!

the irony of ron whining about being sick of hearing from a loser..and calling women bitches and whores.

People posting that are the real losers.

This IS how Perry keeps winning in Texas......but Romney is the culprit for my money.

not calling women (all) whores, calling these women who had nothing to say back then coming out of the cracks now and wanting to be seen and heard or the ones who took money (like whores) and spent it now want to figure out a way to get more of it. The women who make careers out of crying poor me, I'm picked on.. "he commented on my height or said I was pretty", give me a break. Go to the urban dictionary an look up politically correct and see the definition of what people who watch everything they say and do is.

Ron:

Your comments are exactly why women are afraid to come out with these accusations and, when they do, choose to remain anonymous.

Ron, the moment that Cain said that any other accusations coming would also be lies struck me as an odd thing to say. I mean unless you expected other accusations. Why would an innocent man even think, much less say there would be more women coming forward?

Here is a message to Cain:

If you are out of work and you can't get the presidential nomination just blame yourself. You expect the rest of us to blame ourselves for our situation. Why not you?

Kathryn Sullivan

This IS how Perry keeps winning in Texas......but Romney is the culprit for my money.

Exactly right. This comes right out of Carl Rove's play book. Let's look at who has the most to gain from leaking this issue. The establishment Republican Party understands that Cain cannot be elected. Romney is their man. Carl Rove is the main Republican attack dog and has been for years. Note how lately he has been attacking Cain. Now this comes out. I believe this will likely put Cain out of the race, bringing Romney back to the front of the pack. I doubt Romney's campaign actually provided the leak...that's Carl Rove's MO. Romney does benefit from the undermining of Cain but the Republican Party establishment and Wall Street are the big winners.

You lost your point at "bitches". With friends like you, Mr. Cain doesn't need any more enemies.

Just like Glen Beck!

Why do you think you have the authority to speak for all the women in the nation? That's the problem with sexual harassers. They are under the impression that women are obligated to like this sort of attention from men. They are so self involved and insensitive, they cannot imagine that this kind of attention is not welcome.

Morris: Try to set aside your man crush on Mr. Cain for a moment and listen up. Women don't uniformly share your love. In fact, what you know about women would clearly fit on the head of a pin with room left over for a dictionary (which you could then use to look up the word "Mysogeny".)

the republicans did their own fine job of complaining at the people protesting iraq..remember they were "unamerican traitors". I think that makes them the biggest cry baby of all time..since they turned out to be completely wrong.

herman cain, mitt romney and rick perry.....that's your hope to unseat obama....you can bitch and complain all you want ...but sorry if you hard core conservatives don't like the choice imagine what the rest of the country thinks of this circus of your.s, is that why your so pissed ....at everything

Obama is gone baby....

..... g o n e . . . . . .

Keep repeating that and by 2016, you'll eventually be right....

yes, he learn from big boys Bill Clinton, the different is he's a bully, use his Superior & status to submit weaker or lower rank employees. he said to his former employee you're abusive, you're my subversive.