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Subscribe to RSSCain’s evolving statements… Monday began with him claiming no sexual harassment, and that he wasn’t aware of any settlement… But it ended with an admission that one woman might have incorrectly interpreted something he said as being inappropriate, and a settlement/agreement was reached… The big question: Does another shoe drop?... Here come the Super PAC ads: Pro-Perry group begins airing ads in IA and SC… Obama releases his physical; will the GOP candidates their medical information?... And Obama’s busy day with local TV stations.
*** Cain’s evolving statements: Make no mistake: Herman Cain and his campaign had a rough day handling the allegations that he had behaved inappropriately toward two female employees when he headed the National Restaurant Association in the 1990s. NBC News has confirmed that two women accused him of inappropriate sexual conduct, and at least one woman received a financial settlement. First, Cain top aide Mark Block said on MSNBC’s “Daily Rundown” that Cain “never sexually harassed anybody. Period. End of story.” And he added, “I am not personally aware of any settlement.” In a later interview on FOX, Cain said, "If the restaurant association did a settlement, I wasn't even aware of it, and I hope it wasn't for much.” But then his story began to change. “Yes, there was some sort of settlement or termination,” he told FOX’s Greta Van Susteren. “I was aware that an agreement was reached,” he said on PBS. “The word settlement versus the word agreement. You know, I’m not sure what they called it.”
AP
Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain at the National Press Club in Washington DC, Monday, October 31, 2011.
*** Will another shoe drop? So Cain’s Monday began there (no sexual harassment, not aware of a settlement) and ended up here (one woman might have incorrectly interpreted something he said as being inappropriate, and a settlement/agreement was reached). Can he survive this? It all depends if there’s another allegation or a new piece of information that contradicts his current story. If there is, that would be a knockout blow. Indeed, conservative commentators largely gave Cain a free pass yesterday. Rush Limbaugh said, “Look at how quickly what is known as the ‘mainstream media’ goes for the ugliest racial stereotypes they can to attack a black conservative.” And Laura Ingraham, who clerked for Clarence Thomas, said, “Doesn’t all this sound familiar? A black man who thinks for himself, who ends up surprising everyone…” (One exception, however, was Karl Rove, demonstrating an establishment-vs.-base divide here.) But if another shoe drops, he most likely won’t get another free pass from them.
*** Here come the Super PAC ads: Super PACs might say that they’re not coordinating with the campaigns they’re supporting, but just check out what happened yesterday. First, Rick Perry goes up with his second TV ad in Iowa. And then one of the Super PACs supporting him -- Make Us Great Again -- announced it’s airing TV ads in the Hawkeye State and also in South Carolina. The two ads (here and here) are similar, and they dovetail with the Perry campaign’s own positive ads in Iowa. *** CLARIFICATION *** First Read is no way implying Make Us Great Again is coordinating with the Perry campaign; we were just noting the coincidence of the timing and the states involved.
*** Where are the GOP candidates’ medical information? President Obama releasing his medical physical yesterday (which claimed that he is in good health and that he is tobacco free) is a reminder that we’ve received no medical information about any of the GOP presidential candidates. And two of them -- Cain (a cancer survivor) and Perry (back problems) -- have had major medical issues in the past.
*** Obama’s day with local TV anchors: Beginning at 11:00 am ET, Obama conducts interviews with a whopping NINE local TV stations, as well as with Heart Television. The nine are: WAVY, Portsmouth, VA; WTVT, Tampa, FL; KTRK, Houston, TX; KETV, Omaha, NE; WCCO, Minneapolis, MN; WPVI, Philadelphia, PA; KUSA, Denver, CO; KSAZ, Phoenix, AZ; and KGW, Portland, OR. These interviews are embargoed until 5:00 pm ET. By the way, the local TV anchors also will be able to interview Education Secretary Arne Duncan, HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan, and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood about the administration’s jobs legislation. This media blitz raises the question: Where were these media/message events during other legislative pushes? It’s a HUGE advantage, and the White House hasn’t used it much.
*** On the 2012 trail: Most of the campaign activity is in Iowa… In Pella beginning at 10:00 am ET, Bachmann, Gingrich, Paul, Perry, and Santorum speak at a presidential forum sponsored by the National Association of Manufacturers… Later in the day, Paul, Perry, and Santorum make several stops throughout the Hawkeye State… Outside of Iowa, Huntsman delivers an energy-policy speech in Durham, NH.
*** Tuesday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up: Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) on the latest Super Committee developments… Former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-WY) and former Clinton White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles on what they plan to tell the Super Committee later today… Latest from the 2012 trail with NBC News Campaign Embeds Carrie Dann and Andrew Rafferty… Plus more on the developing Cain story with the Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin, Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons, and Bloomberg News’ Jeanne Cummings.
*** Tuesday’s Jansing & Company line-up: Chris Jansing will interview three of Huntsman’s daughters, and they’ll talk about life on the campaign trail, family pressures, and how their dad is holding up.
*** Tuesday’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” line-up: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell interviews the Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza and Karen Tumulty, National Journal’s Charlie Cook, Dem strategist Steve McMahon and GOP strategist Vin Weber, and Wes Moore.
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 7 days
Countdown to Iowa caucuses: 63 days
Countdown to South Carolina primary: 81 days
Countdown to Florida primary: 91 days
Countdown to Nevada caucuses: 95 days
Countdown to Super Tuesday: 126 days
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The Tea Party Pork Binge
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, the Republican leadership’s tether to the Tea Party, flutters the hearts of the government-bashing, budget-slicing faithful with his relentless attacks on runaway federal spending. To Cantor, an $8 billion high-speed rail connecting Las Vegas to Disneyland is wasteful “pork-barrel spending.”
Letters obtained by Newsweek show him pressing the Transportation Department to spend nearly $3 billion in stimulus money on a high-speed-rail project—not the one he derided in Nevada, but another in his home state. “Virginia ... will demonstrate that this historic investment in rail will create jobs, reduce congestion, spur economic growth and improve our environment,” says a letter he signed with other Virginia members in October 2009, cribbing President Obama’s own argument for the stimulus.
Cantor signed several such letters, including an earlier one seeking rail funds a month after he went on national television attacking the Vegas project. He also signed a letter in October 2009 seeking $60 million to build commercial ships, some likely along Virginia’s coastline. As for his bashing of HUD, until last year he owned as much as $50,000 in preferred stock in a real-estate company that receives federal housing assistance from the department.
Seizing on the Obama administration’s decision to make a risky half-billion-dollar loan to a struggling solar firm named Solyndra, Republicans like House Speaker John Boehner and House Oversight and Government Reform Committee chairman Darrell Issa have recently accused Democrats of trying to pick winners and losers and questioned the need for the Energy Department loan-guarantee program at the center of the controversy.
But both Boehner and Issa struck a different tone in requests for help from that program in their home states: Boehner for a uranium project in Ohio, and Issa for an electric-car company in California. “Awarding this opportunity to Aptera Motors will greatly assist a leading developer of electric vehicles in my district,” Issa wrote in January 2010, just 18 months before he began investigating the Solyndra controversy. An Issa spokesman has said the grant was never funded, and that Aptera was on better financial footing than the now-defunct Solyndra. Boehner’s office says the nuclear project had gone through a rigorous vetting process for funding, unlike Solyndra.
Fred Upton, the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, who is currently investigating Solyndra and other parts of the stimulus, himself appealed to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and other Energy officials in 2009 for similar grants. In a series of 10 letters, Upton and colleagues highlighted projects in Michigan that, if granted more than $250 million, could create more than 5,000 jobs.
Other letters show similar requests from Republican presidential candidates who have campaigned on reducing federal spending. Gov. Rick Perry once floated the idea that Texas could secede from the U.S. to avoid Washington’s heavy hand, and he has derided Obama’s stimulus. But two years ago, Perry embraced $2 billion from the stimulus law for highway and airport projects, writing a perfunctory July 2009 letter to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood identifying how he would use the money. Perry was slow to spend the job-creating money as promised, prompting LaHood to send a polite note that November urging the governor to “redouble your efforts to move projects through the process as quickly as the law and financial oversight will allow.”
Fellow Texan Ron Paul, also a government basher on the campaign trail, has participated, too. Between December 2009 and last fall, Paul wrote three letters to top Transportation Department officials seeking more than $150 million to finish a high-speed-rail project in Texas. “This potential lack of sufficient funding will severely limit future projects and the full implementation of true high speed rail,” he and 10 colleagues pleaded to Joseph Szabo, head of the Federal Railroad Administration. Paul told Newsweek that the money was already on the table—if federal money has already been allocated in a spending bill approved by Congress, he sees it as his job is to secure some for his district: “Adding earmarks to a bill does not increase federal spending by even one penny.”
Likewise, presidential hopeful Rep. Michele Bachmann, the Minnesota Republican who formed the Tea Party caucus in Congress, asked the Transportation Department in April for $750,000 in federal money to boost passenger traffic at a small airport in St. Cloud, Minn. (population: 65,000). She closed her letter saying that the grant would be “sound spending of taxpayer dollars.”
Republican David Vitter has been one of many members who have consistently opposed stimulative measures Obama has tried to sell, including the Recovery Act. “It’s not real job creation ... We need to act on the economy, but that doesn’t mean typical Washington pork-barrel spending,” he said in February 2009 at a rally against the stimulus on the Capitol’s steps.
Yet two months after railing against bloated spending, the Louisiana senator appealed to Chu to fund an activated-carbon power plant in Red River Parish, La. “The project is expected to provide a significant economic impact in an area of Louisiana that is in desperate need of quality manufacturing jobs,” Vitter wrote. He forecast that the project would create 70 to 80 full-time manufacturing jobs once it was completed. A spokesman for Vitter says the senator opposed the Recovery Act but is open to other spending programs that benefit Louisianans.
Personal benefits also come in the form of farm subsidies. Rep. Marlin Stutzman, a junior Republican from Indiana who came to Washington in 2010 to limit government, lamented this year that “the president believes that ‘investing’ is spending more taxpayer dollars. It is time to invest in the nation’s future by controlling spending.”
But in 2010, the same year he entered Congress, Stutzman collected $4,061 in farm payments from the Department of Agriculture. Since 1997, his family has received $183,431 to grow corn, soybeans, and wheat. “I don’t deny it at all,” Stutzman told Newsweek, noting that he’s working to abolish the direct-payment system. “But I can’t compete as a producer without [the subsidies].”
Even Tea Party icon Allen West of Florida has gotten into “lettermarking,” a Washington term to describe efforts to seek money for pet projects. Though he’s just 10 months in office, the House freshman has already written at least four letters seeking federal largesse for his district, including one asking to fund a pedestrian pathway in Riviera Beach, Fla. Twice in the letter West vows the project “will create better access to jobs and services.”
West offered a different take the next day during a speech to a local Chamber of Commerce chapter that protesters came to picket: “The people outside don’t understand,” he told the business leaders. “Government does not create jobs.” When asked about the discrepancy, Angela Sachitano, a spokesman for West, said the congressman has been “consistent” in his support of some spending—so long as it’s done fairly, and benefits his district.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/10/30/conseratives-brought-nation-to-default-ask-for-govt-handouts.html
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Seems like with our Republican/ T.P. brethren the thing that worries them so much is not really how you spend the money that they say we don’t have but rather where you spend it.
Hypocrisy Thy name is Republican/T.P.
OK, before everyone gets on here and posts about Cain and the harassment story, please try to remember:
The story is not about “But Obama…”
Or Bill Clinton
Or Kennedy and Mary Jo
Or Solyndra
Or “but the MEDIA….”
See, when those stories are run, you can comment on them all you want. Knock yourselves out. But for now, try to remember no one has even uncovered yet if this ‘leak’ has originated from the Left or the Right.
Deflection and substitution only makes your argument look that much weaker. As Fox would say….”YOU decide” if you want to go there.
Republican Senators clearly do not intend to help us recover from the worst economic downturn since the 1930's. When GOP voted against the American Jobs Act, not only did they vote against 400,000 jobs for teachers, firefighters, police, and veterans -- they voted against rebuilding, repairing and modernizing our roadways, railways, ports, airways & bridges that are structurally deficient, unsafe and obsolete.
The GOP congressional strategy is crystal clear: refuse/block all attempts to recover from this great recession. GOP leaders emphasize their number #1 goal is to bring down the Presidency, but that is not all. By now it is obvious they want to damage our domestic economy, disempower the American people & block our opportunities for good jobs, both present and future.
SENATE, PASS the INFRASTRUCTURE PROVISION OF THE AMERICAN JOBS ACT THIS WEEK!
China spends 9% of GDP on infrastructure, while we spend 2.2%.
WE CANNOT WAIT FOR GOP to PUT CREATING JOBS FOR AMERICANS before TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHIEST.
So the Barry admin has approved paying multi-million dollar bonuses to the executives of bankrupt govt corporations Fannie and Freddie??
These two zombie govt corporations have already sucked down $170 billion in taxpayer bailouts to cover their HUGE losses and they are now using taxpayer’s money to REWARD top executives with millions in bonus pay??
I’m looking forward to the OUTRAGE today from all the regular FR lefty liberals!!!!
Nasty, Bev, Jody, Houston, Da Noid, Anna Molly, dbo, and all the others??
BTW, there were some scary characters out in my neighborhood last night. One tall, skinny kid showed up at my door wearing a Barry Obama mask. After saying “Trick or treat”, he offered me two options: He could send some federal govt employees to my home to “help” me out, or I could hand over all the candy so he could redistribute it to children whose parents are registered Democrats. Not wanting any federal govt “help”, I immediately handed over all the candy, including my private stash of Reeses that I keep in the refrigerator.
From Politico:
Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
By: Josh Boak and Joseph Williams
October 31, 2011 11:32 PM EDT
The Obama administration’s efforts to fix the housing crisis may have fallen well short of helping millions of distressed mortgage holders, but they have led to seven-figure paydays for some top executives at troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The Federal Housing Finance Agency, the government regulator for Fannie and Freddie, approved $12.79 million in bonus pay after 10 executives from the two government-sponsored corporations last year met modest performance targets tied to modifying mortgages in jeopardy of foreclosure.
The executives got the bonuses about two years after the federally backed mortgage giants received nearly $170 billion in taxpayer bailouts — and despite pledges by FHFA, the office tasked with keeping them solvent, that it would adjust the level of CEO-level pay after critics slammed huge compensation packages paid out to former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines and others.
Securities and Exchange Commission documents show that Ed Haldeman, who announced last week that he is stepping down as Freddie Mac’s CEO, received a base salary of $900,000 last year yet took home an additional $2.3 million in bonus pay. Records show other Fannie and Freddie executives got similar Wall Street-style compensation packages; Fannie Mae CEO Michael Williams, for example, got $2.37 million in performance bonuses.
Including Haldeman, the top five officers at Freddie banked a combined $6.46 million in performance pay alone last year, though a second bonus installment for 2010 has yet to be reported to the SEC, according to agency records. Williams and others at Fannie pocketed $6.33 million in incentives for what SEC records describe as meeting the primary goal of providing “liquidity, stability and affordability” to the national market.
Why wasn’t the Cain campaign prepared for this?
Talk about a rookie mistake!
If first you don’t succeed try…try…again…
Herman’s keeps on digging… someone take his shovel away will ya?
Herman’s digging deeper…
I said during the Weiner scandal – it’s not so much the ‘deed’ that will do someone in, it’s the simple fact they REFUSE to tell the TRUTH!
Any guesses how many times we see the term ‘high-tech lynching’ today on FR?
The once seemingly ‘unstoppable’ Cain Train has officially de-railed!
After Bush Jr. do we need another President who suffers from selective amnesia?
Thanks, IR, for an informative post. Of course, there are those that will try desperately now to completely misdirect attention from all these acts of hypocracy you have enumerated.
How's about it No Jo? Smiff? Mr Bill? What say you all?
Deflection and substitution only makes your argument look that much weaker.
____________________________________________
Like when FR lefty liberals routinely use GWB references in support of their arguments??
This is always true. It is never the original story that gets candidates into trouble. It is the reaction, the attempt to obfuscate, the inability to be truthful.
Great post Independent R!
"Democrats will no longer play by the Marquess of Queensbury rules, while their opponents disembowel them." (Dana Millbank, Wash Post)
Joe in Albany
Deflection and substitution only makes your argument look that much weaker.
____________________________________________
Like when FR lefty liberals routinely use GWB references in support of their arguments??"
....Joe said, as he tried AGAIN to use Bush as a foil for deflection and substitution.
Thanks, guy.
Bingo NDD! I said yesterday morning that this statement was going to come back and bite Cain in the butt!
It was his chance to do the right thing and 'come clean', instead he decided double down on STUPID!
Here's another prediction; Politico has more on this story and is just waiting while handing Cain enough rope...
You'd think these folks would learn that lesson, Feisty.
The Project Rebuild provision of the AJA is coming up and it should be passed. No excuses.
NYT says the AJA will have "a significant and swift effect" on our economy.
We should pass these common-sense proposals. The provision on Infrastructure investments will help create jobs, rebuild and modernize....and it will grow our domestic manufacturing sector.
Employment sectors hardest hit are construction, manufacturing, retail trade. And nine-tenths of the jobs created in those sectors pay middle class wages.
The Infrastructure provision of the American Jobs Act will build up the middle class.
first deny, second explain; Herman has just been shot down in flames; a Lobbyist from Washington who is running for president, Carry's a lot of baggage, lobbying is the art of bribery, wineing and dining Congress and yes , the lady market for our Representatives; he talks the talk, he does not walk the walk , goodbye Mr. Cain !
Fantastic post exposing the budgetary hypocrisy of the GOPTP, IR. I particularly like the quote above from Ron Paul, supposedly the most pure of small government Libertarians. They simply don't even believe their own statements to tax payers and voters.
Just one thing to say about Herman Cain today.
Oh, all right. Two things.
Oh, all right. I don't.
Outrage about the bonuses?
You got me.
But thanks for including me as a target for today's misguided stereotype missile.
LoL That really gets your goat, doesn't it?
Don't expect THAT to stop anytime soon.
By the way, after the revelations that came out yesterday, what do YOU think about Herman Cain?
Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
Any way this fits Herman Cain and the rest of the TGOP to a TEA!
Where is Cain's wife? Why isn't she standing by her-man? Just curious!
I think Herman is a misogynist freak!
I always love when the liberals on this board post the parameters of how those who have opposing political views are allowed to voice their opinions. It is exactly that level of delusional thinking that enables them to continue to support an abject failure of a president.
Here's a clue- I can't speak for others, but I certainly do not take seriously your edicts.
That said- Obama has announced that, once again, he is going to undertake to investigate himself. The last time, you may recall, was back in 2008- when he conducted an "investigation" into any contacts between himself, his staff, and the former Illinois governor Blagojevich- and concluded that he, and his staff, were squeaky clean.
The media chanted right along.
Now, he's going to investigate the LAN process for Solyndra- and will, undoubtedly, find no wrongdoing at all.
Somehow, I don't think it will fly this time. Well, here it will. Other places? Not so much.
By the way, guys- to have your doctor declare you tobacco free involves the doctor asking you if you smoke. You can be a four pack a day chain smoker, say, "nope- haven't touched a butt in two years", and be declared tobacco free.
Given that we're dealing with a man who lied about his own dying mother, it's pretty safe to conclude he'd lie about smoking. If he quit, good for him. If not? Oh, yeah, he'd lie.
Seriously.
Does anyone really think that the National Restaurant Association paid out a 5-figure settlement to a woman just because Herman Cain said she was short?
GOPtp and the presidential candidates are for gutting environmental regulations, letting companies pollute as much as they want, drilling more, rolling back Wall street reform, denying 30 million Americans healthcare, kicking young people off their parents' healthcare plans,
And disempowering ordinary Americans,
While demonizing the American Jobs Act that puts teachers, construction workers, veterans, firefighters and police officers back on the job.
Backhouse, thanks for your continued efforts to point out our need for the American Jobs Act. Sure, the bill was killed by Republicans but all the pieces are still out there, and still needed. Republicans continue to work on their transformation of the American economy into a wold of aristocrats and peasants, a transformation that needs to be fought with every means available.
The economy is starting to recover in spite of GOPTP efforts. It's time for them to get out of the way and let us fully recover from the Great Recession.
Priceless coming from phony Dr. NJNB...
Ever hear of a blood test honey?
When signing up for a life insurance policy you are usually required to take one to prove you are tobacco free...
Speaking of Dr.'s maybe you should call & make an appointment - your ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) is accelerating! ;o)
Sure, he'll survive. I just can't see this guy as President if there's a chance he's a serial sex abuser. Are people really going to vote for this guy if we really don't know?? He just needs to tell NRA to release the papers so we can really see if they cleared him from any wrong doing.. Seems simple - what's he got to hide???
Not anyone with half a brain. No lawyer would settle for that reason. Cain is not telling us what really happened and knows the woman he gave money to cannot legally speak about this
Cain has MULTIPLE accusations against him for sexual harassment. But we are supposed to say okay with that? No. This guy lies and was caught. He paid settlement(s) but can't remember. No. We do not need this in our country.
@Joe in Albany,
Yes, the 1% in government also continue to receive their bonuses too. We need much more than "modest gains" to help folks who are facing foreclosure or underwater with their mortgage.
The president is moving forward with a new program to help those who are underwater and want to refinance their old mortgages to a better interest rate.
What,pray tell ,are the 1% members of Congress doing to help homeowners? Nothing! They are interested in reaffirming the "In God WE Trust" motto.
So Congress answer to homeowners is" Pray Baby Pray"
no joe:
Well, you know. That's a tough break for you Obama haters. But don't feel too bad.
After all, there's always his birth certificate to fall back on.
Because everyone lies when it comes to President Obama. His doctors, the State of Hawaii ....
Everyone else but you.
Thanks John B,
Because GOPtp in Congress will not act nohow, noway to lift up our economy,
The President is using executive actions - one a day - to do whatever possible to move us forward without them.
This week Obama signed in critical excecutive actions concerning house refinancing, student loans, veterans, and medications.
Isn't that interesting. A poorly sourced story from the Leftwing Politico on presidential candidate Cain, and a hack job story from the left-leaning Washington Post on Senator Rubio. Looks like the MSM is gearing up their smear campaigns to discredit both a black conservative and a Hispanic conservative.
As for Cain, the bar has been set, by the Liberals, for what is appropriate behavior of a leader whether it be for an association/company, or for a country. And Cain doesn't even come close to the limit. But of course to Libs, there are different rules for different kinds of people, like uppity black conservatives and Hispanic conservatives.
By the way, after the revelations that came out yesterday, what do YOU think about Herman Cain?
_________________________________________
I don't think about him at all. It's waaaaay too early for me to start paying attention to the Republican nominee for the 2012 Presidential election. If a week is a lifetime in politics, a year is a millennium. I'll leave all the worrying about that issue to the lefty liberals. THAT'S far more entertaining.
About the only thing I have thought about with the 2012 election is the possibility of seeing Barry win it, and trying to spin how he inherited a real mess from the 2009-12 administration.
LOL!!!
IR -- What a thoughtful well researched post!
Backhouse -- Thanks for the opportunity to say JOBS, JOBS, JOBS again!
Joe in Albany -- You sure it wasn't your maid that handed out the candy? lol
Four and counting. The race for the Republican Presidential nomination is still Romney's to lose.
Bachmann has discovered that while "freaking crazy" plays well, there actually is a limit. She has passed it. Huntsman just can't get it going. He just doesn't come off as mean enough, and make no mistake, the RINO's who control the G.O.P. love "mean". Perry lost it this weekend. For me, he came off as a coquette. Downright weird. He raises one single question. What is in the drinking water in Texas? Cain cannot stand survive in the current cloud of controversy, and he is going to be buried with continued media vetting. Those four are history.
Still in the race? Santorum. He picks up some of the fringe element of Bachmann and Perry. And doggone it, he's just so darned sincere, but he's also crazy. Sincerely crazy. Probably the next to fall. Ron Paul? Also sincere, and to his credit, consistent. Mr. Paul is sincerely, consistently crazy.
Probably the last two standing will be Romney, of course, and Newt Gingrich, a serial adulterer, a former Speaker of the House who left his position in disgrace and much lighter in his wallet. He will be the beneficiary of much support from the past Republican losers. Gingrich represents the "everything pisses me off" crowd, and there's a lot of that in the G.O.P. He hates abortion, he hates government, he hates the media, but these days he loves God, who has forgiven him. Newt says God has told him that he is forgiven. God should share that with the rest of us, because Newt's track record is not exactly unblemished. He's even less trustworthy than..........
Romney. Given the rabid allegiance to the Republican Party of its cannon fodder, President Obama still has a battle on this hands. It should be a plus that a leader can examine a position, absorb new facts and conclude that he is wrong. A good leader should change his mind, but Romney is a whirling dervish. He is the embodiment of political expedience.
He presents himself as a master of the corporate world. He knows how money works. In truth, Romney's wealth comes by gutting companies and shipping jobs overseas.
You just want to believe it can't get any crazier. The problem is, at my age, you know it can.
Hiya boys, did you miss me? I'm Baacccckkkkkk! (Randy Quaid, Independence Day)
Ah, four days off, no work, no First Read, no TV, just four glorious days of playing with my five dogs and drinking a case of Newcastle Brown Ale. Ahhhhhh. I'm tanned, rested and ready. So let's begin.
Herman Cain, meh. Who cares? I am becoming more and more convinced that Cain is a straw man being used by the GOP to run interference for Romney. Cain doesn't want to be President, he just wants a talk-show deal from FOX. He wants to sell books and give speeches. He is the absolute perfect boogey-man to deflect attention from Mitt and his flip-flops. It would not surprise me in the least to find out the GOP "outed" Cain just to raise this ruckus. Tell me, were their lips moving? If so, they are lying.
Other than the historically fascinating thought that we could have two Black men running for the President of the United States in the General Election on the 150th anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation, I can't take Cain seriously.
Mitt's the guy. But since Cain is being such a good soldier he might knock Pawlenty out of the number two slot. We'll just have to wait and see. My money is still on Mitt/Pawlenty as the GOP team to beat. And we will.
So have a nice week kids and try to behave, remember Santa is watching you and Christmas is just around the corner.
Obama/Biden 2012
Has the "star chamber" leftist press even bothered to IDENTIFY Cain's alleged "accusers?" No?
More proof of another high tech lynching by the leftist MSM. Too much to expect from the likes of Politico, MSNBC, NYT "fair and balanced" reporting like FOX.
Joe handed out candy? Does Spawn Hannity know?
Why, why, why ... that's unAmerican. That's, that's, that's ... generous.
Joe must be a ... a .... a ... liberal.
He can sign things until his hand falls off, it's all just political hand-waving to make it look like Obama is doing something. The housing mortgage problem was and still is the biggest problem facing the countries economy. Obama had two years to address it, and did nothing. Now he's putting band-aides on a skull fracture and saying what a great guy he is.
Maybe rather than play his little political games he can work with Congress on getting a FY2012 budget. You know, that's kind of his job. Obama thinks campaigning is his job though.
Conservatives are doing fine work with the Rovian technique "attack the source". Never mind that the CO-OWNER of Politico, one of their lead writers originated the phrase "Drudge rules our world."
Here's a little hint. Drudge doesn't rule the world of Liberals.
The Uncertainty of Questions –
As the World Yearns for Answers
Can uncertainty be a mark of great leaders?
Most people would be certain of the answer – NO.
We want our leaders to be calm, assured, fixed in their direction, informed of their courses through stormy seas or calm paradisical bays, capable of directing counselors’ debates toward a righteous goal, stalwart as a commander in the field leading with sword held high and pointing to the enemy.
“We,” by the way, does not simply apply to “exceptional” Americans – this is generally a human trait, informed through the millenia. It is as true of barbarians swarming down the Thracian Plain to found Macedon, and centuries later spawn Alexander the Great, as it is of Iraqis today squabbling, and bombing, in the rubble of their once-great nation.
Yet great leadership always begins with questioning. It always begins with uncertainty and the search for an understanding. It does not begin with blind passion and blind blundering.
Answers to grand problems must always be preceded by questioning. There is no weakness in questioning, in making attempts that do not succeed, or but partially succeed. Often the greatest victories follow grand defeats. It is not the capacity to demand that marks intelligence, but rather the capacity to learn.
Winston Churchill learned this lesson early in World War II. He came to office with the certainty that Hitler’s Germany was evil, intractable, and must be destroyed. He came to office expressing the certainty that Britain’s strength and resolve would make the result.
But Churchill’s public resolve masked private questioning. He had questioned, and learned the answers to, much of Hitler’s philosophy and resulting policy, in the years before the war. Churchill, however, did not question enough – until the end of the war with the liberation of the death camps, he never quite believed the evidence of mass murder, for example, and thus allowed millions to die when something might have been done to spare those innocents. Across the Atlantic, American President Franklin D. Roosevelt mirrored Churchill.
Closer to the point of the war itself, Churchill’s apparent certainty led to costly disasters because he did not ask questions first. The worst may have been the terrible price of the Dieppe raid in 1942, when Churchill tested the concepts for a later invasion of mainland France. Thousands of mainly Canadian soldiers were killed or captured in that epic failure, because Churchill and his advisors believed that the Germans were weak, physically and morally.
Yet Churchill was a great leader. He had the capacity to learn and to question, when his assumptions were challenged by facts. He gained assurance from his lessons, and he took his lessons to his nation – with success.
Today the world, and most especially the United States, is again in crisis. And the crisis is a war, of sorts. The nation, and the world, yearns for certain leadership, for reassurance and guidance. It is bitterly divided about the course toward a future that many paint in bleak and sere colors.
Will America, and a globe of now seven billion souls, wander forward into a
wasteland, a “Mad Max” countryside crumbling beneath abandonment, or will the
people join to strive in their customary discord to advance with all people
seeing some hope for a better day?
That is the question.
What is the answer?
__________________________
Reposted here. How come the first FR reports always get upstaged?
@Madison
of course they have - where have you been?? First Politico and now MSNBC. Now they haven't blurted out the names all over the airwaves so your more fanatical teapublicans can start harassing them but they have stated that it is confirmed....
they have identified the women but the women involved are legally prevented from speaking about it. what planet do you live on where you post but don't know what you are talking about?
and as been mentioned a million times the left didn't out this - the RIGHT did and it was released on a right leaning web site.
NJNB -- What do you think made Perry act so strange in his latest speech? Weird wasn't it?
John A, thanks for your insights,
Great leadership is about solving real problems and CAN be addressed by actions TODAY.
GOP SENATE KEEPS ON IGNORING/DENYING THE POLLS that show Americans want the provisions in the American Jobs Act by a 2:1 margin.
Anything to distract and manufacture the focus away from our desperate need & loud demands for jobs to be number #1 on the list. Now, today.
Cain is just another member of the Radical Right that will never be President of the United States.
I think it's too bad that Herman Cain gets to characterize what happened, while the women who complained about him don't have a chance to defend themselves.
And you'd think, wouldn't you, that if the only thing alleged was that Cain called a woman short, and the settlements were small, the National Restaurant Association would simply agree to waive the complainants' confidentiality agreements, so that EVERYONE would be free discuss the circumstances.
I mean, that should clear everything up, right?
If Cain is telling the truth, what harm could it possibly do?
JAS1 -- Funny but many conservatives on here frequently reference Politico and Wapo to make their points or support their arguments, including your best buddies.
Screech Owl Madison -
Pay attention, if you can stop the quivering of both those brain cells for just a moment, to what Herman Cain himself told us of this erupting scandal in his press conference yesterday. He said the complaints were independently investigated by the association's HR and legal staff.
That's KEY to this discussion.
It is both a legal requirement and accepted best business practice to handle such complaints in that manner. After the internal evaluation, a business knows whether the complaints are highly-dubious or have some merit. Many a man, thus falsely accused, should be thabking Los Angeles attorney Gloria Allred for her many sexual harassment cases, for she helped set the rules by which those men were absolved. But if there's some meat on the bones, as it were, then the story follows another course.
In this case, the association ponied up - paid substantial settlements to the complainants. If there had been little support for the claims, those people would have been fired instead.
And after the process was completed, guess what the last step has to be? Oh-h, hold on to your exploding skull, Madison.
The HR and legal folk were under requirements to have a nice little private chat with .... Herman Cain!
Yeppers, the target of the complaints and subject of the internal investigation MUST be told what was done, why, and the outcome.
HERMAN CAIN LIES.
AND, ONCE AGAIN, DEAR MADISON, YOU JUST SWOOP AND POOP.
@John A.
"Will America, and a globe of now seven billion souls, wander forward into a
wasteland, a “Mad Max” countryside crumbling beneath abandonment, or will the
people join to strive in their customary discord to advance with all people
seeing some hope for a better day?"
I see people raising their voices with real questions concerning the global economy, income disparity, and simply the human aspiration for dignity in work, safety for their families and government that works on behalf of all of its citizens.Call it Arab Spring or OWS , questions are being raised by the people.
What would you conclude about a policy that destroyed three different industries in one area?
How would you think about a politician who decided to destroy the homes and livelihoods of people in that community in order to serve the wants of one group of his supporters?
Would you support any group that sought to destroy communities for the purpose of returning said communities to the wilderness?
I'm sure there are plenty on this board that do- they think it's a great idea to return wheat and corn fields to prairie grass-the cost of food be damned! The livelihoods of farmers be damned!- but I would hope they are in the minority of crazies.
I would hope the majority recognize that destroying homes and businesses to suit the zealous nuts who think most of the earth's population should just drop dead is not just bad policy, but borders on crazy. That people are, actually, part of the ecosystem- not its enemy.
If so, you need to see this
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/county-324351-rural-state.html
For those who ask how regulations destroy jobs- here is your answer.
I doubt many of these people will be voting for Obama.
If you actually watched the interview Cain did with Greta you would know that this "story / article" is not really accurate when it says his story is evolving. Cain still states he did not sexually harass anyone and that he recused himself from the the harassment investigation when he was made aware of it. Those incharge of the investigation told him the charges were baseless and that it had been resolved without a huge settlement. He did mention that employees were often given severance packages and he did not know if she got anything more then a regular standard package. You can watch most of the interview on Breibart's website. Breibart.com
Not his birth certificate!
IR, excellent post.
Albany Joe, thanks for the shout out??? I believe Fannie & Freddie are no longer government agencies but rather private businesses which deal in Government loans which means Government cannot dictate bonuses. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you or someone else will correct me.
Madison, apparently you missed the part where the settlement amount could not be discussed or disclosed, and as such it is necessary not to reveal the names of the women. The names were not provided because it would be in violation of the settlement received.
John A.
Did you watch the interview? Because in the interview Cain stated he was told a "large" settlement was not given, and that something similar to a severance package may have been given to the employee who was no longer working there. He did not say and did not seem to know whether she had been fired or left on her own. You seem to speak as if you know what the settlement amount was and what terms her employment ended so please let me and others know what this huge settlement amount was, and tell me were you got the information that she was not fired / let go for her baseless claims.
Madison From NY
I'm as disappointed as you are. I wanted Cain or Perry to be the Republican nominee, because they would have been sure to lose in the general election. But don't blame the "liberal" media for the problem these two chuckleheads are having. Blame the CORPORATE media. They certainly don't want another 4 years of Obama, even though they've done well during his first 3 years. They want Romney because they know they can do even better with him than with Obama. If Romney has any principles at all, they are centered around catering to the corporate interests that the main stream media represent.
The big story is no longer about whether Cain was at fault in the accusations. It's now all about how he and his campaign mishandled the response to put this story to bed. Half truths, inconsistencies, and the inability to set the record straight on this are very definite insights as to how he would be seriously challenged in handling his staff and the pressures of being president.
The other big story is the callousness of the GOP towards women and harassment dismissing this as a racial issue and belittling harassment to overblown charges by vindictive emotional women over casual office fun that everybody does. If anybody thinks this won't lose some of the womens' votes they had in their tallies for GOP candidates, they're kidding themselves.
But don't you think it's a little unusual for the author of the Cain hit piece in Politico (Mike Allen), when asked for more details on his sources, changes the subject to how many Tweets he's received? 48,000 according to Mike. We should be so happy for him, no?
And this was so long ago John, isn't it really about old news, about private interations between co-workers? Isn't it time we just MoveOn(.org)?
Northstar -
EXACTLY. But they are questioning ... and so, for some time, have many of our leaders. President Obama, seeking a path of harmony and progress, certainly has shown some uncertainty as he began moving forward. But now he seems to have found his answers and is quickening his pace of leadership. That was part of the underlying point of my rahter obscure little think piece.
What I wish we would see is more reasoned, thoughtful questioning from the right, some honest uncertainty about their ideologies and willingness to LEARN. Ah, too much to desire, I suppose.
Backhouse -
Pardon my not complimenting you earlier about your outstanding piece, and the many you have been posting. Please continue your focused, reasoned observations! And of course we KNOW you aren't Navy - who seems to be on the road too much in his new job. Of course, folk comparing your pieces with his would immediately notice the difference in styles, usage, and reasoning. Both excellent, both different.
Hope the recent difficult weather hasn't caused you too much grief. (And Northstar, you CHOSE to live in an icebox ... hee, hee)
Yeah IR, good post. Left out a few facts. Amtrack is profitable on the east coast corridor, HS rail might make sense there? Can you name another region of the country where Amtrack is profitable? Not Las Vegas to Disneyland. In fact, Amtrack is $550,000,000 in the red from operations last year. Improving rail where rail works might be a good idea, investing in rail where rail doesn't work -- like Chicago to St. Louis where an inventment of $50,000,000,000 MIGHT save 40 minutes on a rail trip might not be such a good investment.
Sorry to say, Cantor is right -- moron.
Albany Joe, thanks for the shout out??? I believe Fannie & Freddie are no longer government agencies but rather private businesses which deal in Government loans which means Government cannot dictate bonuses. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you or someone else will correct me.
_______________________________________
Jody, I'm more than happy to correct you on this issue. Fannie and Freddie used to be stockholder owned companies and the federal govt had no more rights to tell them what to do than any other stockholder owned company. When they went belly up an needed a taxpayer bailout, all the stockholders were wiped out and 100% control of both corps went to the Federal Housing Finance Agency. The Barry admin has complete control over them. Thus my expectation that lefty liberals would be OUTRAGED by them using taxpayer bailout funds to pay multi-million dollar bonuses to ther executives.
So far, the only responses are Anna Mollys yea to outrage and your trying to explain it away.
LMAO!!!!
Ms.Pleasantry above said "He can sign things till his hands fall off":
President Obama is taking action. Real actions that have genuine postive outcomes.
Don't be holding up your GOPtp House Congressionals as the great models for accomplishment. They only work 3 days a week, two weeks out of three. And have produced NO jobs bills and not one single job since running on JobsJobsJobs last November.
There are only 3 weeks left of this year for Congress to get something done on jobs.
Republicans should not be refusing to create jobs noway, nohow for any reason. WE CANNOT WAIT ON JOBS!
Anna Molly
Yes, I believe that they or their insurance company would. Something similar happenned to me and the comany I work for. I'm a plant manager and had to let a person go because she had some issues and quit taking her medicine. She was not very productive, she argued with other employees, and was in a condition that was unsafe for a factory. We actually had to get the police to escort her from the building because she would not go. A month later I was told she was suing the company for wrongful termination and stated that I had sexually harrassed her because I would look at her. Actually I had to look at her to determine whether she was in any condition to work the last few days that she was with us. This lawsuit was handled by the company attorneys and disappeared. I would bet that she got something (far less than it would have cost in attorney fees to go to court and win) but I have no idea what. I would guess that there are unsubstantiated and false claims that get paid off every day. I would caution to not make too much of this until all the details are known.
Logic Required -
Well, since you are chopping logic in your response to me, I enjoy the irony of your screen name. And I'll return the favor.
At what point did I claim any special knowledge of the specifics, outside that which has been published? What gives you the right to attempt to discredit me by making up such obvious lies? Where's the REAL logic in that?
Oh, I get it. You just want to alter the chat terms and get away from Herman Cain's problems - and any other problems for the GOP by way of his association with the party. Yeah, now we see - it's the Karl Rove playbook again.
You can re-read my post. It reflects the STANDARDS OF BUSINESS PRACTICES AND LAWS ABOUT SEXUAL HARRASSMENT INVESTIGATIONS.
I did NOT refer to the Van Susteren interview. I referred to Herman Cain's OWN PRESS CONFERENCE yesterday. Get your facts straight.
Cain's comments that at least one settlement was equal to three months' pay - a comment I did not include in my original post - actually proves the point I made earlier.
HERMAN CAIN LIES.
Anna Molly,
If Cain is telling the truth that doesn't mean these women given a chance to give their side would tell the truth. Imagine one of these ladies came foward and as a registered Democrat saw a chance to not only cash in on the new attention she would be getting, but she could also try to bring down a person who she strongly disagrees with. If the Cain and the women talked for five minutes in his office without someone else present it is basically a he said, she said situation were everyone gets to believe who they want. It will not help get at any truth.
I look at it this way, the sexual harassment charges were both about "alleged" comments he made that made the women feel uncomfortable. There was no claim of touching or blackmail. How do I know these women aren't just being too sensitive or taking something not meant to be bad and turning it around on him? Herman Cain is innocent of any wrong doing until proven otherwise in my book.
Wait a MINUTE! Stop the presses! This is IMPOPRTANT!
I just realized if Romney selects Pawlenty as his running mate it will be the "Mitt & Paw" ticket.
Get it? "Mitt & Paw". Oh that is too funny.
You've got to "hand" it to them. hahahahahahaha
I'll bet they've got quite a "grip" on the issues.
PUH-leeeeze, please, please choose Pawlenty. Comedians need material.
Obama/Biden 2012
If Cain didn't do anything wrong, why is he refusing to release details of the agreement. He wants to be president; we deserve to know what happened. He should release his birth certificate while he's at it, just to make sure he is an American.
Joe in Albany -- The FHFA as a conservatorship was enacted and signed into law in 2008 by Bush.
After being the victim of a woman claiming sexual harrassment on me when I didn't do anything, I don't really care what the outcome of this is. It's all too common for a few on the female side to twist anything and everything to the point that they get their way, and sexual harrassment is the easiest way to do it.
I do wonder though, after trolling these threads off and on over the past year... Why do the extreme left liberals (i.e. Fiesty, Anne Molly among others that are too busy passing Obama the lube behind them) on this board not understand that those of us that don't like Obama purely don't like him because of what he's done while being President? Why do you always have to pull the race card, or deflect to Bush, or blame the Tea Party, <continue long list>. Why can somone not like our President JUST because they disagree with him? Obama is just as guilty as Bush, the Tea Party, the Democrats, the Republicans, Ocuppy WS, and every other person/organization that has committed error.
Seriously, start thinking with your own brain and get off the MSM crack.
Dave, Cain did nothing wrong. All he said was, "Girl, you making my dough rise." A perfectly acceptable phrase in the restaurant industry.
You guys are just twisting it.
So says Cain.
My point exactly. And why we need to hear what the women say.
Otherwise, it's just Cain's word against nothing.
After his double-tracking obfuscations yesterday, I'm hardly inclined to take his word for it.
My, my, my. And aren't we anxious to assume that the woman would be an opportunistic liar with a political ax to grind?
I mean, it's not like CAIN has any political points to be won or lost here that might motivate what HE says.
Hello?!!
What Herman Cain "meant" is not legally relevant.
And right back to my first point. You don't know. And yet, you seem inclined to disbelieve anything they might say.
In fact, you're SO inclined to disbelieve them that you don't even want to give them a chance to say anything.
For someone who claims to value logic, it might be helpful if you practiced it.
This guy, Logic? I like this guy.
Herman Cain is de facto innocent and cannot be proven guilty without breaking another law. Let me show you why...
You see...he was accused (innocent until proven guilty) and an investigation was conducted.
No matter what the investigation uncovered, a settlement was reached. Which is neither the admission nor denial of guilt, but money payed to shut someone up.
Then a non-disclosure agreement would have been signed.
Therefore...Cain is innocent, legally. He was never found guilty, and the subject is a 'dead horse'.
I totally think he did it. I also totally think that not only will that be impossible to prove without someone breaching their NDA, but that even so it won't be as detrimental as the FR Dem Caucus seems to think it will.
Then again, we've never and hopefully will never let our elections be decided by the far left or far right. Despite their screaching, they are the minority and most people don't agree with them :) either of 'em!
John A.
You posted the following
I assumed since you stated they "paid substantial settlements to the complainants" that you most of had some knowledge of what the settlement was. You also said that "if there had been little support for the claims, those people would be fired." So I again asked if you had knowledge that they hadn't been fired or let go. You posted that because of the pay out and them not being fired Cain was basically guilty and a LIAR. Since you know neither the amount paid out, or whether these people were fired or left on their own I am simply asking how you know he is a Liar? Even if there was a pay out and the women left on their own you still don't know if Cain actually did anything they accused him off or if the Association did what most companies do and that's pay money to get the would be complainants to go away, because after all that is the reason many of them complain in the first place, get a settlement. If Him not remembering everything that took place 15 years or so ago makes him a liar, then I guess most of us would be liars if we were put in the same situation.
The screen name LogicReguired, has nothing to do with me or logic, I purposely misspelled "required" as a joke when I first started posting because so many people were posting about "logic" and then would say the dumbest things I have ever seen written before. The name is a joke, I don't actually expect to get anything other then dribble 99% of the time.
Can you say "oral sex in the oval office?"
Yes you can...
I disagree with him on many things, which you would know if you had REALLY read my posts.
And I can already see that I dislike YOU because I disagree with you AND your colorful metaphors.
You're barking up the wrong tree, Fido.
With a potty mouth like yours, is it any wonder?
Why am I not persuaded?
Yesterday, the President signed an executive order that will direct the FDA to step up work to reduce drug shortages, protect consumers and to investigate illegal price gouging.
One report found that vendors who price gouge on average, mark drugs in short supply up by 650%.
Mr. Pleasantry: That is called taking concrete positive executive action, and cannot be interpreted otherwise.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/10/31/numbers-650-percent
I have to call you out for your obviously communist motives in posting this just to inflame the rabble and promote class warfare.
What does it matter if there are shortages and people can't get the drugs they need?
Don't you know that the free market always regulates prices perfectly?
Perfectly, for them.
See?
LoL Maybe Cain was doing that, too. ;-)
More on Cain check the L.A. Times...Campaign finance fraud in Wisconsin...Why is that when we learn that the settlement amounted to "just" 5 figures that there was nothing much to the allegations this is assuming that the accusers had attorneys. Have anybody here filed a sexual harassment charge? We know that the association had lawyers but it is not necessary for the complainant to have one and what would stop the H.R. or company attorneys to take advantage of this situation. Again check L.A. Times October31, 2011 "Cain.s ties to Wisconsin Nonprofit..." Can you say toast oh no high tech lynching that's it darn those pinkos at Politico...
Anna Molly,
You're right I don't know, and either do you. And yes I am inclined to believe Cain in this situation. Harassment claims are often used as a tool to get at people and / or to get money. (Do you disagree this happens) Such claims are almost always a he said, she said type situation where the truth is never really known by anyone but those two people. Anyone who has been in any kind of leadership position at some point in time will have something charged against them whether it is harassment, discrimination, or threats people know how to use the system to their advantage. I look for patterns, if everywhere Cain went there was some situation that needed to get pushed under the rug then maybe I would tend to believe the complaintants, but that hasn't been the case with Cain so I give him the benefit of the doubt, just like I did Anthony Weiner until more facts came out.
I am perfectly fine with them given a chance to tell their side of the story, if they want to come foward I think they should be allowed to say their side. I am simply saying that if they came foward and said something else happened we still wouldn't know who was telling the truth. I think the terms and agreements should be released, and an explanation of why they handled it the way the did. But in the long run accusations are usually just that, an "accusation" usaully can neither be proven or disproven just used by whatever or whoever wants to use it for their own purposes.
Joe in Albany -- The FHFA as a conservatorship was enacted and signed into law in 2008 by Bush.
________________________________________________
dbo is going to accuse you of weakening your argument with deflection to Bush.
So what??
Barry is now the President and it's his admin that signed off on using taxpayer bailout dollars to pay multi-million dollar bonuses to Fannie and Freddies executives.
Place FR lefy liberal OUTRAGE comments here, please.
It' such a good day for a dictatorship.
.
AM
All is well with the Mr. Pleasantries of the world:
When the Norquistian right wing pushes for even lower or no taxes for the top 0.02%,
even as 7 out of 10 of the most affluent are agreeing to tax increases and to helping increase revenues for our country.
All's well with the Do-Nothing-But-Kill-Jobs party, when the rest of us go along and just agree to fade away.
PIZZA MAN ROCK YOU LIKE A HERMAN CAIN (to the tune rock me like a hurricane)
GOSH DARN IT! This is the second time in a week I've agreed with you Red! It's really starting to annoy me lol
Absolutely. The settlement may have been $10,000 for all we know. You see this all the time in the insurance world. A sexual harrassment, improper termination, hostile workplace claim starts at $25,000 to defend. Most times the company or insurance carrier will offer a settlement for less than what it would cost in defense.
There are a couple of things that indicate that these may have been baseless. For one thing, the settlement was accepted. If there was a good case, either of these women would have fought and gotten much more. Secondly, according to the article yesterday, both left employment with the Restaurant Association, which if it was mutual, would have led to a severence package (which easily may have been 5 figures). It is illegal to terminate employment for someone making an accusation of harrassment.
Many times with any type of claim, the insurance company will settle without the permission of the insured or even the insured's knowledge. That right is part of the contract.
Albany Joe, we are both right. Fannie Mae was created as part of the 1938 New Deal. In 1968, it became a publically held corporation to remove debt from the federal budget. It is a Government-subsidized business. Ginnie Mae remains the government arm of both Fannie and Freddie. There have been substantial changes to the loan restrictions for VA, HUD, Farms, etc over the years, some good and some bad. Neither party is exempt from having signed into law bad rule changes including President George H. W. Bush. Fannie & Freddie were NOT, however, the driving force behind the 2008 economic collapse despite the conservative's best efforts to claim they are. Fannie & Freddie had bad mortgage loans crammed down to them by other large banking institutions because the rules had been weakened which would have prevented it. Both parties are to blame for the weakened rules.
The Do-Nothing-But-Just-Kill-Jobs Party on the right side of the aisle:
understand all about dictatorship and making war on Education, Science, Voting, Seniors & Woman as well as Jobs.
Thanks for reminding me.
You think the rest of the country should just roll over and die for them?
Joe,
The previous report said the settlement was 6 figure.
Just Saying.
I do not know anyone or any company that pays out 6 figures "just because"
RON PAUL 2012
Joe in Albany -- Yeah, blame dbo for that, lol. You do know the argument conservatives make for justifying CEO pay, right? Is not FHFA suppose to be an independent agency?
You crabby Joey? Let me say persaint, persaint, persaint feel better?? ; ) There now your thoughts are back to money. I could have went down a different path...but thought better of it, lol.
Gee, Mark, you don't know much about businesses then do you? Businesses commonly make settlements, regardless of any liability, if it will be cheaper than a long drawn out court battle.
It's interesting, the Cain mud slinging is such a non-issue, that even the libs on this thread can't stay on the subject and are wandering all over the gamut of subjects!
Bentbrass
Yes, as everyone knows, Hitler took executive action on house refinancing, student loans, veterans affairs, and medications shortages right before he invaded Poland. Sheesh!
LoL Are you serious?
Then why offer to settle at all?
Besides, all you know is "5 figures." There's a lot of ground between $10,000 and $99,999.
For some people, 5 figures is a lot of money.
In whose world? Not all companies routinely offer severance packages; but if that's all it was, then it wouldn't have constituted consideration for a release of claims and a confidentiality agreement.
Obviously, it was something more.
By the way, don't read too much into a single term. "Mutual" is a term of art in severance agreements, even where a termination is involuntary.
Yes, indeed it is. And maybe that's another reason why the National Restaurant Association paid.
Are you talking about NJNB, JAS1 and Joe in Albany?
Houston, having a President sign Executive should bother you. Or will you wait until there is a GOP President signing Executive orders that it will make a difference. Executive orders should be seen as a slippery slope for EVERYONE.
The great thing about our Republic is the system is set up to recycle every two years. If Obama isn't getting his way because the GOP is standing in his way of his agenda, then he can wait until the next election cycle. If enough voters agree, the GOP will (or who ever is in office) will be thrown out. But to do end around orders through executive dictate is a slap in the face of how our system was set up. Really, having a president sign executive orders doesn't scare the hell out of you?
Cain admits he did something that 'might not have been appropriate'
But thats after he dined he did anything
after he denied he know of a settlement
Now he admits he know thigh he tries to spin it as 'severance'
OK
Cain you got caught for doing something 'inappropriate'
YOu got caught lying about the event
You now backpedal
You sir are caught lying..period
And to the one who cites Cain's own interview on it as a source...uh which version of his statements will you believe next?
THEN LATER:
Which version do you believe now, or will that change again.
When he was with the NRA Natl Rest Assoc) you know he was a slime ball where women were concerned. Evn if you give him a pass on that being 'more accepted' back then, You cannot give a pass on his lies about the events now.
Simple facts--his own words
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe
WRONG... If you had ANY legal knowledge, you would know that calling someone "short" does not fall into any sexual harassment definitions. This obviously does not constitute Quid Pro Quo... which anyone with half a brain can tell you. AND this does not fall into the hostile environment category of sexual harassment because the term "short" is not sexual.
Now, it MIGHT be considered harassment... NOT sexual... but just harassment, creating a hostile environment, IF and ONLY IF it can be proven to have occurred on multiple occasions. One occurrence does not constitute harassment or a hostile environment, and even a paralegal can tell you that. One occurrence does not get you a settlement (or "agreement" because Cain likes to focus on semantics)
For this to even get to the point where lawyers are involved... meaning beyond the HR department... there needs to be sufficient evidence to support a hostile environment or a Quid Pro Quo action. Calling someone "short", ONCE, does not meet any of these requirements. Thus, Cain is lying. Mark my words, more of this story will come out.
(article) The big question: Does another shoe drop?
* * *
Every day he lives and breathes, there is another opportunity to SLANDER Herman Cain. Blacks are 99.9% integrated into society. We have a Black President, Black Senators, Black Congressmen, Blacks on the Supreme Court, Black Generals and Admirals, and even Black Billionaires.
However, the 0.1% of society that is NOT INTEGRATED is the body politic. The last remaining COTTON PLANTATION of the OLD SOUTH is the Conservative Wing of the Republican Party. The greatest injustice is that it is not the Republicans who have an issue with Cain; no, it is the Democrats who wish him to leave behind his rugged individualism, self reliance, and can do spirit and crawl back to the SLAVERY OF VICTIMHOOD.
There is nothing on Earth Democrats despise more than a Proud Black Man who dares confess that "individuals possess within themselves the rights of their own self determination and that government, despite all those good intentions of Uncle Tom Liberals, gets in the way more than it helps". True.
Redneck has been into the Longnecks. There's nothing like a good beer buzz in the morning !
Fomer GOP
First of all he didn't call her short, he said in his interview that he told her that she was about the same height as his wife and then referenced the the height to his chin. (How that is harassment I don't know but that is what he said one of the complaints was about.) Second, he didn't say their wasn't more comments other then that one, just that he couldn't remember what some of the other comments that she complained about were. Third, lawyers can get involved anytime, if the women was seeking money she wouldn't go to the HR department she would go straight to a lawyer and say she wanted to sue. There is nothing that suggest she ever went to HR and tried to resolve the matter without lawyers which makes the case that she was probably looking for a pay day. Since lawsuits and lawyers are expensive it is often easier and cheaper for a settlement if the amount is not to great. Since 5 figures doesn't tell us a lot we don't know. There is probably more to the story but I doubt it will amount to much.
Nope. Not since 1789.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order
Except maybe for this one:
But, given how much you dislike executive orders, this should give you comfort:
No, not with my mouth full.
LogicRequired
Anna Molly said...
You responded...
Now you are saying...
You have a lot in common with Cain. You make one statement, then back-peddle when you are called out on it. No wonder you like him so much.
You keep making my point for me.
That's OBVIOUSLY not all this is about. It's just what CAIN says it's about.
(By the way, I got the reference to "short" from Cain himself. He used that word.)
Yes, and even by his own admission, he did this while standing very close to her.
Like I said, there's more to this that Cain doesn't want to tell you.
And, despite what you pretend, you really don't want to hear it.
Not true. Cain himself said that he recused himself from the investigation, leaving it in the hands of his HR director and legal counsel.
Pay attention and stop making up your own fantasy version of the facts to match your pre-determined conclusion.
LoL This brings us right back to the beginning.
Would you, if you were the NRA's legal counsel, advise your client to settle a case for 5 figures if the only allegation was that Cain said she was short?
I wouldn't, and I don't just play legal counsel on the Internet.
Bentbrass -- I too mistakingly confused Executive Orders with Executive Actions. Two entirely different things that carry entirely different weight.
President Obama is using Executive Actions. Shawna Thomas, a reporter here at FR, pointed out the difference and you can google it or go to the WH website for more info.
Cain's other "baggage" makes this flubbing-fib-fest look inconsequential.
His "ratings" are for amusement only...not substance....sort of like Jersey Shores.
Analyze his past lobbying record, and his political agenda and you've got a con man trying to sell books.
It wasn't OK when Clinton lied, either. In fact, if you remember, he was impeached over it. It's never OK when an elected official lies. Let's just save ourselves the time and money and keep Cain out of the Oval Office. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.
"Settlement" or severance? There's a difference. If this was SUCH a big deal, someone would have dug it up a long time ago. BEFORE Cain became a real contender.
RIMom....If memory serves me correctly, wasn't Obama selling a book too at the time of his campaign?
Lessons From my Father" or similar title. Was hawking his "The Audicty of Hope" also.
Anna Molly :
With a potty mouth like yours, is it any wonder?
Why am I not persuaded?
Amazing.... just like with Cain, you're quick to judgement without knowing absolutely ANY of the facts.
Your response to my story proves your lack of integrity.
Thanks :)
Anna Molly
Exactly. And not only that... but companies and associations like this already have legal council on staff, generally they have entire legal departments. So it would not cost Cain any more money to hire lawyers, BUT losing the case may have cost more. Thus, even more evidence that there is more than a simple "short" claim.
Furthermore, Cain's explanation of "short" would not constitute a "sexual harassment" claim... it would be simply called "harassment". The fact that "sexual" is referenced proves that he is lying.
First of all, I think this whole Herman Cain sexual harassment allegation is a non-issue. We don't know enough about it to get worked up about it either way.
As I have told you all many times, I am a state certified Civil Rights investigator. That includes sexual harassment cases and I've worked my share. A complaint of sexual harassment can be filed over inappropriate or unwanted touching, comments, jokes or teasing that is deemed to be sexual in nature. The person who gets to decide if it is inappropriate is the victim and in some cases a court of law. Swimsuit calenders, photographs, etc have largely disappeared from most workplaces because their display can cause another person discomfort. That CAN BE sexual harassment.
It's a tricky subject because what may be acceptable and inoffensive to one person can be embarrassing and harassing to another.
Cain could be a predator or simply a boorish male who told a joke or made an inappropriate comment one too many times. We don't know and all this discussion and argument is distracting us from the real issues facing us and this country.
We need JOBS. We need HEALTH CARE. We need CONGRESS to start acting like statesmen and women and not like a bunch of hack politicians. We need answers and solutions, not dirty tricks.
The fact that they paid at least one of the women cannot be viewed as a sign of guilt. Guilt can only be determined in a court of law. PERIOD. It never went to trial.
So give it up folks. Let's remember the real boogey men threatening the American dream. The Koch's, Murdochs, Boehner's and McConnels. They should be the real issue here. THEY are the predators we should be concerned about, not Herman "amazing grace" Cain.
Focus people, focus. You're being led down the garden path.
Obama/Biden 2012
the libtards are funny today.... take away all reason and accountability= libtard
Your post clearly demonstrates a certain, shall we say, attitude toward women.
Not to mention a way of talking that a lot of women would find offensive.
And that's a fact.
And is that what you also said about the woman who complained about you?
Why, yes, it is, actually.
For the record...
As Lawrence O'Donnell has pointed out several times, Herman Cain was never running for President.
It would be grown-up if MSNBC and other media outlets would just ignore him.
Cain is a con man who is only interested in selling himself and his books.
As Lawrence pointed out last week, Cain was campaigning in Alabama last week and their primary is next Spring!!!
He is certifiable and that 23% who polled for him are just as crazy!
no matter how you look at , he's done .
"Cain is tripping all over his lies, this guy is dumb as dirt."
If Herman becomes Commander in Chief, his policy will be "Cain't ask, Cain't tell. ,Cain't remember".
except for height 5 feet tall!
Cain, D-9, D-9-, D-9= Guilty, Herman said I was only "Joking"
Anna Molly nice use of the cut and paste of Wiki. I think most intelligent people would agree there is a reasonable need for executive orders. As your copy and paste points out, it has been used for many years. Interestingly, one of your justifications is citing Bush's use of executive orders. Did you think his use was appropriate? If not, then you are contradicting yourself. There should never be executive orders to circumvent the legislative process no matter how much we agree or disagree.
Dont_carry_it_all, an executive order is an executive action. Presidential actions can also include Presidential Memorandadums and Proclamations
AM;
What field do you practice law in? Curious, i know you and spanky both claim to be legal counsel. Not quite sure what his is, either, but I will be sure to ask sometime.
After all the lunatic lefties tripping over each other to insult Mr Cain, what is the result?
Mr Cain's fundraising is getting a boost!
C'mon, you gotta love an old school guy thinking that all of this is a bunch of school kid nonsense over a glance or a comment. He has not adjusted to the hyper-litigious society that liberal politics has produced. Most folks agree with Mr Cain.
Cains press conference proves he's lying. How much and how big? We do not yet know. Someone above talked about wishing the "right" would engage in some reasoned, thoughtful questioning of its warped ideologies which hinder the path toward harmony and progress of our system and the betterment of the people. Noble sentiment, but quite unrealistic. When candidates commit themselves to an external allegiance and standard of conduct, relative to governance, prior to becoming elected to a specific position within the peoples institutions of workable governance, the spirit, letter, and even traditional intent is, at least skewed, and often perverted. Our good President, is finally, I hope, understanding this.
Bentbrass -- A very confusing issue orders vs. actions etc. Here is link to Shawna's article:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/28/8528035-just-what-is-an-executive-action
Maybe Anna can help clarify in the legal sense????
I'm thinking that first 9 in his 9-9-9 plan might be some kind of measurement.
I'm thinking that would be wishful thinking on his part.
; )
Yesterday there were some pretty despicable posts related to sexual harassment. A lot of them insinuated that sexual harassment has no foundation because many are initiated by predatory women, and some of the posts were sexually graphic in the grossest way. Surprisingly, not all of the “predatory” comments were made by men. Equally surprising, many of the predatory and sexually graphic comments were made by men with whom I usually agree.
Work for a year or two or more in a women’s shelter and you will learn that sexual harassment and violence against women is all about power—who has it and who doesn’t. You will also learn that emotional/verbal abuse is more insidious than physical abuse because it leaves no telltale marks.
Very, very true Jack. I occasionally help out at a shelter for abused women. I have a very good friend who conducts therapy sessions for these women and their children. All say that while the physical abuse is terrifying and awful, the verbal/emotional abuse is even worse.
Thank you Jack, it is always about power.
Well put.
What is so bad is when there are legitimate complaints of sexual harrassment by a man in power, more often then not it is whitewashed, swept under the rug. And when it comes to light of the day, then its a "misunderstanding" or someone out to get the poor blessed saint of a man. I recently had a sister that was stalked and raped by a coworker, her job had several previous complaints of harassement from other coworkers regarding the rapist but the company did NOTHING about the complaints.
Cain has already dug himself in. His changes in statements. His "I am innocent, they are just out to get me". I am just waiting for these women & or more women to come out of woodwork and they will. He just a another Clarence Thomas.
Jack, Portsmouth, well done! Thank you for saying that.
I began my working career before sexual harrassment laws existed. I can say that dealing with unwanted sexual advances while trying to avoid being fired is no easy task. It can be done but it takes practice and it takes a strong female (or male) to manage an end run. From first hand experience, sexual harrassment or rather discrimination even appeared at job interviews--potential bosses testing the waters before hiring a person despite personal qualifications for the positions.
The best thing to happen for women, and men as well, was sexual harrassment laws. To dismiss the claims about Cain, Clarence Thomas, Bill Clinton or any others as "gotcha, digging for dirt" is to dismiss the years I and millions of other women spent fighting off unwanted advances, lack of raises, etc. because of being "unwilling".
Jody & Jody,
I've been reading your posts for a while and didn't realize until this string that there were two of you, each from a different state! My bad. I'll have to pay closer attention from now on to see who's who.
Anita Hill was a very brave woman to go before all those powerful men and cameras. She suffered a lot of abuse to get this issue before the public. Yesterday's comments were another slap in her face. But onward. Two steps forward for every one back.
Best post I've read here to date. TY Jack. Couldn't have said it better. And of course we have the three stages of political wrong doing.
1.Denial
2. equivocation and
3. Acceptance which brings us as close to the truth as we are likely to get.
I say we stop playing this partisan game and write in entirely different candidates. If they did not campaign then they probably have not been
paid of,er um receiving campaign contributions, (bribes) I for one will write in Hilary for Pres. and Elizabeth Warren for VP in 2012. I certainly will NOT vote any incumbent in for Congress or the Senate. I'm fed up! (pun intended.)Coming from someone who lost his job completely based on the word of a female, when he did absolutely nothing wrong or directed at this female.... It happens more than people think.
On the flip side, I have also been to (not inside) a woman's shelter helping out an abused friend, and have seen the women coming and going.
There are women that are abused, but there are also women that discredit the abused women by taking advantage of the system for revenege/power.
My take on the Cain thing, it obviously wasn't that big of a deal (if anything at all) since it took so much digging and took so long to come out.
I'm willing to reserve judgement until all the facts are out in the open, and anyone who judges Cain before then obviously doesn't like the guy in the first place.
Jack in Portsmouth-
I am pretty new here and I admire Jody of Iowa's posts. Thanks again for your comments and thanks to Jody for another excellent post follow up.
Jack, yep, there's two of us. The first time I saw Jody, Ohio, for a second I thought I'd already posted a comment on a thread and that FR had messed up the state!
Thanks, Jody, Ohio.
Alex M. Sorry to hear about that. It is unfortunate that the HR dept of your employer failed to do their jobs correctly. I have also seen unjustified accusations but if the people responsible for doing the investigation do their jobs correctly, being fired for false claims should not happen.
Jody -- I too experienced "harassment" as a young woman/girl in my early working years. In both instances good men stepped up and remedied the situations without me having to say a word. It wasn't until later did I realize what great men they really were. Doing the right thing prevents lawsuits.
Please, women are lawsuit shopping half the time because they ened a new pair of shoes.
Go jump.
MR -- I really resent that statement. As a woman nothing could be further from my mind. I can purchase my own shoes thank you very much. What if I made such a general blank statement about men? Please do not speak for women, speak for yourself!
MR is another example of the self absorbed me only can't look at any besides my own views idiots that inhabit the far right claim your prize as another example of the "missing link".
Yeah, women never lie. The fact is this is another cause of job flight from the US. Most are frivolous or don't even rise to a reasonable person's level of "harrassment." It's a joke.
http://mensrights.bizhosting.com/
Case 1
In the case Vargas vs Peltz the Judge threw out the sexual harassment case stating that the false allegation was a "Fraud on the Court" by a woman out to defraud her employer in order to secure financial benefits.
Peltz, a multi millionaire was sued by his ex housemaid. The judge threw the case out when evidence was presented that demonstrated Vargas case to be outright lies. Specifically Vargas claimed that Peltz had given her a pair of knickers. Vargas lawyer waved these knickers about in the courtroom calling the knickers a smoking gun. But her case collapsed when it was demonstrated that these knickers were not even sold in the USA until seven months after Vargas filed her initial lawsuit.
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Case 2
The Chief Executive Officer of Oracle corporation was accused of sex harassment by a female employee. This female forged e-mails in a malicious attempt to damage an innocent man by accusing him of sexual harassment.
The sex harassment case against the CEO was thrown out.
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Case 3
SEX CHARGES AGAINST PRIEST WERE FALSE, WOMAN ADMITS
A Fresno woman admitted in a signed court judgment that she made false sexual harassment allegations against a former Fresno priest in a long-running effort to discredit and harass him.
Attorney William A. Romaine said Wednesday that a judgment against Mary-Helen Macias was signed by both Macias and Superior Court Judge Mario Olmos.
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Case 4
John comments on a false allegation of sexual harassment against him
Five and one half years ago my assistant filed a fraudulent charge of sexual harassment against me and stole my job and destroyed my career. I have never had a hearing and will never have one. I have sued only to be told that even if the charges were false and you were denied due process you still have no case. I must now decided whether to appeal it or not, the current members of the federal judiciary being what they are, that is a dubious prospect. This has all been a horrible nightmare which seems as though it will never it. And all because some unscrupulous woman wanted my job. We Americans just love to preach human rights and civil rights and we nothing more than the biggest liars and hypocrites on earth. Welcome to 1984 in 2001.
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http://mensrights.bizhosting.com/
$60,000 For listening to gossip
In another famous case an Eastern District judge upheld a $60,000 jury award to a woman who claimed to have suffered from sexual harassment directed at women with whom she worked.
But, this woman had never witnessed any harassment she had only heard rumors that harassment had happened. She had never been harassed herself. Merely heard gossip that some women had been harassed. A jury awarded Ms. Leibovitz's $60,000.
Would you regard gossip as causing $60,000 worth of emotional upset?
For more details on in Leibovitz vs New York City Transit Authority click here
MR -- Couldn't one say men and women have been known to lie about things?
Yes, men lie. However, the difference is I'm not making b statements about how women are always right. The fact is, women have more power and manipulation over the system and use it -- all the time. If you're going to debate atopic, look at all sides.
"evolving statements"? Where I come from that's called changing your story and/or lying. Surprised that Gingrich had nothing to say? He is on (pun intended) his third wife after cheating on the first with the second and cheating on the second with the third. All while leading the prosecution of Clinton! Nothing from Romney? Well he would not want to have to explain his draft dodging missionary days spent in France would he? Bachmann doesn't want to explain her husband and why they only fostered teenage girls does she?
Cain is providing a textbook example of how not to handle a crisis. These are terribly serious accusations, not some stunt by the press. For the Cain camp and Republicans to treat it as some sort of phony campaign attack is unsettling. Where is the accountability? Sexual harassment is serious business. Sometimes the most important aspect of a burgeoning scandal is what isn’t said rather than what IS said. Herman Cain dodged and squirmed away from these allegations before denying them in the most casual way possible. Mr. Cain should end his bid now. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
FR, we realize you have to stay on the right side of legal, but it's everything we predicted when the Citizens United decision came down and the real shock would be if these anonymous funders AREN'T coordinating with Conservative candidates.
Another republican weirdo...Does he think his singing will save him? He lied and he's toast ! The Koch brothers must be pissed their investment wont pay off !
Well, Romney is to be a speaker this weekend at a function they support. Maybe they checking him out to see what their money will buy?
It is amazing what is possible when folks work together and pay attention:
________________________
Yes. We. Can.
Great post, Nash. OWS absolutely CAN bring about positive change in the financial sector. In spite of carping about them from people in the pocket of the financial industry from both parties they've ALREADY changed the political debate. We're talking about misdeeds in the banking sector. We're talking about income disparity.
Those are things that wouldn't be this high in the public spotlight if not for OWS, and that's true even though polling consistently shows them to be high priorities for voters and tax payers.
Nashville and JohnB,
Occupy movements throughout the country are asking real questions to the power interests. They will continue and the politicians cannot ignore or dismiss them forever.
Yeah, those occupies are a great bunch.
Last week, a woman in NYC reported that three men had threatened to kill her because she reported being raped in Zuccoti Park. The allegation was that they were members of the "security committee".
This morning there is this
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111028/NEWS03/710289961
Great bunch.
Here's an OUTSTANDING page of charts and graphics that explain exactly why Wall Street needs to be occupied. http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
You on the left live on FILTH.
Clinton can settle out of court and personally pay off a woman with $850,000 and it's a "private matter". Then as President he can lie to the nation, lie to a Federal Judge, lie to a Federal Grand Jury, get impeached for those lies, and not only don't you NOT even care, but you actually attack the people that report the story or obey the law, with a justification that "it's all about sex" so what's the big deal. Even lately, when it came to Weiner you actually spent a week attacking someone as a hacker that did NOTHING except reported what happened and defended Weiner.
But let someone come out with even a hint of scandal when it's a Republican and all you on the left can do is scream from the rooftops.
Hypocritical filth mongers, the bunch of you.
So which is it, Cheryl? Harassment is right or wrong? Or in your dark, unhappy world it depends on who is being accused? I would hate to be as angry as you sound. Life is too short to be that unhappy.
CherylLM
"You on the left live on FILTH.
Clinton can settle out of court and personally pay off a woman with $850,000 and it's a "private matter".
Guess I was wrong above- the story IS about Bill Clinton?? Nice, Cheryl. Real nice.
Paul M: I think the other shoe you refer to may just be the campaign contributions from non-profits issue. We'll see, but that may just be the next 'shoe' to drop.....
newday.........Where ACTUALLY is the harassment? Show us the PROOF?
In your stupid, liberal world a Democrat can get away with anything but even the HINT of a possibility is the opening for people like you to jump in and throw your filth.
Where are the women? Where are the witnesses? Where are the FACTS? We had it ALL with Clinton and Weiner. All we have with Cain is innuendo and "anonymous sources" so far.
And I'm as happy as I can be thank you very much and you aren't in any position to judge how "angry" I am or am not. Could it be that possibly you actually have a conscience and maybe I twinged it a little? After all it's people like you who IMMEDIATELY go into condemnation mode without knowing any FACTS whatsoever.
I gave Clinton the benefit of being INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, unlike you people on the left do with Republicans, while to this day people like you still defend Clinton. I even gave Weiner the benefit of the doubt, for about 24 hours when all of a sudden there were women stepping forward to substantiate that he was a putrid piece of garbage.
It's interesting that while all of you on the left will attack anyone that dares to even tell the truth when it comes to a Democrat have no compunction whatsoever to assume guilt immediately when it comes to a Republican.
And drive-by, I was pointing out the HYPOCRISY of people like you who assume immediately that a Republican is guilty without any proof whatsoever, but will spend weeks, months, and even years defending a Democrat that you KNOW to be guilty.
You can try to play STUPID little games, but in the end people like you don't give a damn what Clinton actually did, and don't care what Weiner actually did, but by God you'll scream like a baby in a crib if a Republican's name comes up even when there is NOTHING that shows that he actually did anything at all except some story from "anonymous sources".
Cheryl -
So you think Herman handled this properly, then? As his story shifts like sand in the wind, you try to make this about Clinton - really?
This issue is not about partisanship, it is about honesty. When confronted with the information, Cain should have been forthcoming - there was an issue with some employees, there was a settlement which I cannot discuss due to its terms, etc. - but his first instinct was to lie.
That is the REAL issue here. Why should we, as a nation, come to trust anyone who's first, reflexive response to an issue is to lie?
Again, as it has been pointed out here before me, this is like Weiner's poor photographic decisions - the deception was the problem, not the 'scandal' that predicated the deception. Until Herman can figure that out, he is not fit to lead this country.
Cheryl, Mr. Cain himself has opened up the questions with his changing stories. He also knew about this story coming out for 10 days and still couldn't get his story straight. Ergo, it does lead to questions. And, if I were the type of person to talk about a side who likes to wallow in filth, and throw it, I would look to the GOP. Have to admit, they not only throw it at the left, but at their own opponents as well (see John McCain in 2000).
Cheryl -- how was it a private matter, when you know all about it? President Clinton's escapades were front and center in the media for months. For me, this is not an issue where Herman Cain is being demonized. In many businesses (and certainly the restaurant industry), there is a fine line about how much a customer is always right. Waitresses are always getting off-color remarks directed at them, sometimes asked to put up with obnoxious people....if a person feels that they are being harassed by management, he or she has the right to go to human services and make the "accusation." It gets investigated, resolved, sometimes people are asked to undergo sensitivity training, sometimes the accusers are off-base...end of story. If Herman Cain supports the right of workers to have a harassment-free environment, there is no issue.
And Clinton still managed to beat the best the GOP could offer.
I'm not sure why Cheryl is getting her knickers in a twist, Cain was never a very viable candidate just a novelty straw man. Now that he hit the big time, for which he is clearly unprepared, just underscores his lack of viability.
Take deep breaths Cheryl, it will all shake out in the wash.
Cheryl: go back and read the question I asked you. Or have someone read it to you, then take some deep breaths and read it again. My question: Is harassment right or wrong, or does it depend on who is being accused? I think an objective observer, reading your response would say "In Cheryl's narrow little world, it depends on being accused." That was quite the diatribe, and I must take pleasure in pricking YOUR conscience! I would recommend that if the weather is nice where you are, you go take a walk. It will help your mood.
Cain is unelectable.
Why do you republicans/teabaggers keep bringing up the past. Lets talk about today. How come that does not apply when The President brings up the mess that scrub bush left him. Well!
I all fairness, Clinton was an expert at beating.
"And drive-by, I was pointing out the HYPOCRISY of people like you who assume immediately that a Republican is guilty without any proof whatsoever, but will spend weeks, months, and even years defending a Democrat that you KNOW to be guilty.'
I believe I said yesterday "I'll wait" to see how it (the Cain story) unfolds. Hell, I even said above, I dno't know if it is originating from the left or right.
Also- you know how many weeks, months, and even years I defended a Democrat that I knew was guilty?? Suppose you post some of that 'evidence' of my postions back then for us, will you? (should be good, considering I wasn't posting anything back then....)
The world according to Cheryl is that "liberals" are behind the Cain sexual harassment story. That makes no sense. Why would liberals find scandal to eliminate one of the GOP's weakest candidates when no official nominee has been chosen? While I have no proof, it is far more likely that Mitt Romney or Rick Perry would benefit more from eliminating Herman Cain as a GOP candidate than would liberals. This story has Karl Rove fingerprints all over it just like the 2000 smear of John McCain. Leak something sleazy to the press and let them do the dirty work.
If filthy means consensual and un-filthy equates to un-consensual, I'll take filthy every time. Cain has been accused of sexual harassment. That is far different than lying about having consensual relationships.
Cheryl, for me it is not merely the original accusation. It is even more the prevaricating, story-changing, flip-flopping responses since the story came out. This is NOT the type of person I want to represent the country.
The reason people jump on Republicans for this is that they always proclaim themselves as being more "moral" than everyone else when, in point of fact, they are not. There are a few who have enough shame (after being caught in morally bankrupt positions) to do the right thing and resign, others (I am calling Sen. Vitter out on this) do not. The media jump on the Republicans for their hypocrisy more than for any other reason.
As for who's behind this story coming out, I have to say I don't know. But I will point out that Herman Cain is not yet, and will never be running against any liberal, only other far right conservatives, so we have to ask the question, "who benefits?"
Yep, agree completely with the notion that if another shoe drops, Cain might well be done. It seems like he's fumbled and stumbled his way to surviving this first revelation. People seem to be giving him a pass for the awkward handling of the situation. Any more women show up, though... And this might well be where we see the knock out dirty trick. These things aren't that hard to fabricate out of thin air, either.
so how many women need to come forward? I didnt know that there had to be more than two to be a creep. By your standards murdering one person is okay , but darn those serial killers.
Women are the big losers here. Now we have to have a crowd claiming sexual harassment in order to be taken seriously. This guy IS a serial harasser
Herman Cain obviously is not familiar with the vetting process. He should have known this was going to surface sooner rather than later or at the least his "team" should have known.
He should have made the disclosure himself. To say he can't remember something as significant as being sued for sexual harassment, whether true or false is something does not make sense even to the slowest people.
To admit to having a Faulty Memory while running for POTUS is strange! This was only 12 years ago.
Herman ran afoul of the Republican National Committee. The web site Politico.com is run by a Republican who wrote policy statement for Bush Jr. It is a Republican backed web site.
The Republican party does not want a Black man as president. They are trying with all their cunning and might to make Obama a one term president. They print some new lie or misleading fact every day to discredit Obama.
This nothing new it is just partisian durty politics. Herman is a casualty caused by his own party. If by accident he became the Republican canidate and he NO chance the Democratic Party would have disclosed the incident.
Regardless of what Cain did or didn't do in regards to this, he is just not a viable candidate. If the Republicans think Cain is their man, they should go for it. I just cannot believe that this is the best the party can put forward. Looking back at previous elections, I can never recall the field to be so full of weak and mediocre politicians, or in this case want to be politicians.
Until the Republicans can find someone, who can truly represent moderate conservative values, they are just running a side show for the media to take advantage of.
This story is starting to look more and more like the John Edwards scandal by the minute. Another sleaze bag incapable of keeping it in his trousers blaming everyone but himself for his troubles.
Quit politicising this and giving this misogynist credibility.
In terms of the Herman Cain issue, my primary question is why are many Republican/Conservative pundits trying so desperately to make the issue Herman Cain's race instead of did he sexually harrass two women? I mean if the same allegations were made about a white candidate, would we not be having the same discussion? Do they really think that most folks are stupid enough to fall for the ol' bait-and-switch on this?
Frankly, if it weren't for the cash settlement being paid, I would be inclined to ignore the entire matter. As a matter of fact, the way Herman Cain is handling this tells me a whole lot about his managerial style, and I find that more relevant than some he-said-she-said stuff I have no way of verifying.
Simply put: Mr. Cain is NOT ready for prime time . . . but then we knew that, right?
Next.
Kind of a side bar question here, where is Mr. Cain's wife? I don't think I have ever seen her with him, or anywhere on the campaign trail.
Right Nash, race just simply doesn't play into this, it's meant to be a deflection.
How many times have Republicans decried the Obama camp as "using the race card", but now rally behind Cain, their "black conservative"?
One of the interesting thing is several big name republicans (Huckabee, Rove for example) feel that this story came from one of the campaigns for the GOP nomination. Yet, the folks on these posts would rather blame the left than look to themselves. Hmmmm.
Never mind that cain was a former tobacco lobbiest and now has other ghosts in the closet .
Mmmm Hmmmm...He was never a viable general election candidate in the first place, just one in a series of desperately flawed, radical Conservatives on which the Tea Party could pin their hopes.
Mr. Cain, please take a lesson here. When you get hit with something like this, lay it all out, and do it right up front. The more you try to avoid it, or "tap dance" the issue, the bigger it will get. Remember Billy Clinton.
Oh, and tell your staff to keep their mouth's shut and refer such questions directly to you.
Their all Hypocrits.
The GOP and especially the TPOTTY members, will fight and vote against any help for the poor or middle class people of our Nation, but can't wait to get on the Government Gravy Train if it's for (THEIR) State or District.
Vote them all out in 2012.
Obama in 2012.
CA. Tom. I agree with everything you say except I will be writing in Hilary and Elizabeth Warren under the none of the above party. If enough of us do that we might just get a real message through to the politico's. NO MORE, WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT!
Herman Cain, Trouble in Paradise. Herman Cain is rapidly becoming the latest GOP candidate running for presidential celebrity status to use more than the alloted 15 minutes of fame. In addition to 24 hours of media feeding at the potential sex scandal trough, Cain has a campaign finance problem in Wisconsin. About $40,000 was provided to Cain by a nonprofit organization for chartered air planes, i-Pads for staff, etc. which is illegal. Meanwhile the media is obsessed with sexual harrassment. Both are serious allegations but we heard a lot about the harrassment charges and almost nothing about the alleged illegal financing problems.
Ann Coulter was quick to defend Herman Cain and claim that liberals are afraid of black conservatives, that liberals think liberal blacks are better than conservative blacks. Who is it using the race card now? That statement by itself is both ludicrous and ignorant. Sexual harrassment allegations have nothing to do with one's skin color or political ideology and everything to do with character. Mr. Cain had since October 20 when Politico contacted his campaign to get his ducks in a row yet for 24 hours we have watched his story evolve from complete denial to remembering something that might have been one of the accusations. If handled properly, candidates can succeed despite the stories. Mr. Cain, as in so many other instances, was clearly unprepared to answer tough questions.
As Morning Joe Scarborough commented today, it is ridiculous that the National Review and other conservative media are circling the wagons to defend Herman Cain as if they are defending "conservatism". Don't often agree with Joe but just as George Will got it right, so did Joe Scarborough.
I must admit, Jody, I was appalled by Ms. Coulter's remark. And the lack of response from Mr. Cain's campaign just goes to show he is not ready for prime time. As for Joe Scarborough, I thought I would snort my coffee was so surprised with him.
Nice post, Jody.
Some issues transcend race, ideology, and politics - this is one of them. It is not often we get a window to a candidate's true self. Usually, if you don't like what you see, you should move on. However, the Right's media machine wants you to believe that if you don't like what you see, it's because the Left is 'lynching' their man.
Such an attempt shows the contempt the Right has for their own base - spoon feeding them this crap and expecting them to embrace it shows that they truly see their own supporters as empty, non-thinking 'ditto heads'.
It is pathetic, and I am disgusted by it.
@TOL
You mean kinda like the way the mainstream media covers for the current administration?
@Xbonz
So FOX news is not in the 'mainstream'? The vast, right-wing talk radio network is not in the 'mainstream'? The Wall Street Journal is not in the 'mainstream'?
If, in your world, the 'mainstream' media outlets are just leftist shills, then what do you call rightist media outlets - 'fringe media'?
Honestly, you need some updated talking points - the old ones aren't doing it for you anymore.
TiredofLies, thanks and I see you already took care of Xbonz nicely!
Jody, the thanks go to you for your cogent, literate, and well though out posts.
Please keep them coming.
So when Bill Clinton, as President, got caught with his pants down, the right wingnuts wanted to impeach him. He wasn't fit to be President. Then why does Cain's sexual harrassment issue not matter? At least Monica was willing...these women clearly didn't want to be bothered by this egomaniac. This guy's a joke, just like Trump, Bachmann & Palin. The only difference with Cain is that he never expected to be taken seriously. He just wanted to sell some books and make a few bucks. Now look what you wingnuts have done.
...see post #19 - seems like nothing happened except a lazy broad wanting to make some free, quick money off a rich guy...
...ya know, like those walls street protester-types..
See Post #18 - How in the world do you know nothing happened? Obviously, something did, or they wouldn't have shelled out the cash. You know, if you're innocent you should defend yourself against these "outrageous" accusations. He says he was joking around with these women, and they took his jokes the "wrong way". Typical. Again, See Post #18
It's very possible that the money was paid as a "severance" deal, that there was no way to resolve the issue and that the best thing to do was to let the accusers leave. That doesn't mean guilt on the part of Mr. Cain. He can just say, "there was an investigation, a settlement and I respect the privacy clause in the settlement."
The same question can be asked of the left. When Clinton was caught lying and with his pants down, the left didn't seem to care much. That doesn't absolve Cain, but this happened 15 years ago. So far, no one has mentioned it happening in the last 15 years. The issue was INVESTIGATED 15 years ago, it was concluded that he crossed no such improper line and the women were given a termination settlement. If you have proof that in the last 15 years other women have brought charges against him, then let's hear it, but until then, don't keep talking about this non-issue. And, this from me, a woman who was once sexually harassed. Get over it.
Kate
I don't see you or any of your Sister Tea Bagers addressing the real point. Herman proved that he is a typical lying politician/lawyer by stating unequivocally that he was not aware of any settlement. Politics 101, when accused deny deny deny deny until the accuser comes up with irrrefutable evidence. Then claim a faulty memory and attack the accuser for (pick all that apply) racisism, feminism, homophobia, left wing bashing, right wing bashing, jealousy, _____________— fill in the blank.
Why try to defend his actions which are not presently subject to intelligent investigation and ignore the fact that he was caught in an outright lie and then reversed his lie within hours. He proved that when cornered, his instinct is to lie. OK maybe this is typical for a politician, but don't try to pretend that Mr. Cain is not a Washington insider.
...a non-story story, but when you are in the hip pocket of the democrat party like Chuck Todd & MSNBC, you go with your marching orders...
I feel sorry for you.
Chuck Todd is a registered republican.
So lying is a non-story in your book for a presidential candidate ? Just wish the republicans would write the rules down, because I remember a different point of view in the Weiner viral non-sense. Ditto for Clinton, seems like way back then, what 6 months for Weiner, republicans were against lying, now they are for it. Next week I am sure when some idiot democrat has the exact same thing, they will be for it once again.
I am delighted by the entire republican establishment falling over themselves to defend a black man that has a zero chance of winning. And who was caught in at least three lies in one day, regardless of the actual story, he flat out lied about a lawsuit.
The other thing is why do right wingers go to MSNBC ? I never go to FoxNews, certainly wouldn't waste my time registering and commenting, yet the wingers are here in full force complaining how bad it sucks. Seems a little.... stupid, don't like it, go somewhere else.
...why do people look on newvines(I have no clue what a 'right winger is, probably as ignorant as a 'left winger')? To see the illogical blubbling of the loonie left, it's is so amusing. I read this stuff to my kids and tell them, "See what you will turn into if you don't do well in school!"
Meh
A lot of press coverage does not a witch hunt make. It's the content of the news coverage that makes a witch hunt. If some guy is digging his own grave, it's called something else.
Sure, he'll survive. I just can't see this guy as President if there's a chance he's a serial sex abuser. Are people really going to vote for this guy if we really don't know?? He just needs to tell NRA to release the papers so we can really see if they cleared him from any wrong doing.. Seems simple - what's he got to hide???
After all he's got no Public service record. All we have is his past record at these various jobs...
...didn't bother ya when you voted for Clinton...and it was known he was a 'wanger' - Cain's only was accused & proven to be a non-issue.
@ComradeChaos
I believe it was consensual with Clinton and he used his own funds for the payoff, not membership dues. I guess you're one of those who prefer sexual harassment over consensual sex for some weird reason that requires psychoanalysis...worse yet one that condones bosses or people in power abusing the "lowlies" ...... yeah nice, really nice....
we dont know that it was proven to be a no-issue. cain is refusing to have the papers released about this. Tells me that there is something he doesn't want anyone to see. More than one person accused cain. this guy has been c aught in lies and is a serial harasser.
Well Comrade It was your party who keep bringing it up. it was your party who pushed it. It sucks when your guy steps in poop and it won't come off his shoe.
...nice accussations, there Marlon, assuming you know what I 'prefer'...
....the lefties are very artistic in showing their superior intellect...yeah, and their liberal arts degrees really, really led to useful careers too...
...have fun now, kids... <><
The editor of Politico refused to answer the question of whether thir source of the story came from a republican candidate. My guess is Perry gave them the story. It's typical Texas politics.
Huckabee and Rove both believe the source was from the Republican side. Pretty heavy GOP hitters to be saying that.
My money is on Rove. That's how he operates, gets something started and sits back and says who....ME?
Cain looks and acts like a smooth talking pimp trying to get some White ho's to work for him. Now he has started singing gosphal songs. This guy is the poster child for affirmative action results after 50 years a dumb azz black man with no common cents to speak of or a way to fix anything. This guy is a black racist.
...Funny, at least 1/2 the population of Americans think the same thing of Prez-0...and 1/2 of them didn't even vot in '08.
Tell me Comrade how do you know this?
A point here. It is extremely hard and embarrassing for a woman to come forth with a complaint of sexual harassment. Not only is she afraid of not being believed, but there is the fear of more abuse and being fired.
They can also coyly come forward with a vindictive bent. It's a two way street. In any case in this instance, names and faces please.