No kidding. Voted.

You left out law abiding....

Which group is more law abiding?

Disrupting Town Hall meetings is law abiding? What an odd definition of that phrase!

That's what you got versuses a over 1000 of arrests???

kind of sad

I know how to get jobs back and put everyone to work, lets all start working for $2 dollars a day like they do in slave labor countries, and business would come back to America! Let's go back to 1910 wages! Everyone will have plenty of jobs!!!

People got arrested during the civil rights movement. Does that mean it was the wrong thing to do?

People got arrested during the Vietnam war protest. Does that mean it was the wrong thing to do? We were attacked by the police just like the OWS people. Then the powers that be went on television and lied about us. 1969 the year I quit believing the media told the truth on the news.

Apparently arrest have nothing to do to determine if the OWS movement is the right think to do, just like it didn't make the other national movements wrong.

I am much more concerned that the police are using violence against its own people. If our government is treating people in the rest of the world like it is treating its own people no wonder we are hated around the world.

Rob, It would seem that most of the arrests are occurring in cities with republican mayors. What does this say? Many of these people are at the end of their ropes. Tea party? I don't have time for them. Who has the time to be demonstrating for the cause of the rights of millionaires? That is exactly what they are doing. The occupy movement is a new civil rights movement, which is there to protect the rights of those whose rights have been slowly and silently been taken form them since St. Reagan was president.

Any respect I had for Ron Paul is now gone.

What a stupid thing to say about the Wall Street protests.

I would have respected him if he said the protesters have a valid complaint.

I used to listen to some of his ideas, but now I think he is just an old, senile, angry man, with no ideas that will work.

Learn how to write. The objective case is wrong when used as the subject.

I haven't seen or heard anything about Ron Paul going to OWS to talk with the protesters. When Buddy Roemer went there he exchanged ideas that were intelligent, thoughtful, and serious. There is always some extremism in movements, some who are a bit Utopian, but the main message and majority of supporters are not and never have talked about hand-outs, or any other nonsense.

Those who disparage the OWS movement with hate speech or dismiss it in such a superficial way are doing so out of fear. After all, look at how small and unpopular the Tea Party is in comparison--which says a lot right there.

Rob -- The Tea Party has only had brief events, not the dedication to camp in parks for months, or marching outside their little safety zone with permits, Astro-Turf money, sponsors like Glenn "False Prophet" Beck, etc. Still, the aggression from signs to head stomping to packing heat--the Teabaggers are not "peace" loving folk and everyone knows it.

Once again, Paul drops the ball. I'm on the side that wants something done about the unsustainable trajectory of the finance industry. Which side are you on, Ron?

re: but now I think he is just an old, senile, angry man, with no ideas that will work....

^ Yes and he knows we know - he's going nowhere, which makes him even more angry and bitter.

Oh well, this is his last hurrah.

More about Martial Law (mentioned below) and curfews -- What is going on in Portland, Denver, Austin, etc. is the enforcement of vagrancy laws to suppress the right to assemble and freedom of speech. The intent of lawsto control vagrancy is completely unrelated to OWS, and this is a large part of the problem.

Then added to that is instigation by police. For example, on that bridge, police got protesters to step out onto the bridge so they could arrest them for blocking traffic -- Conducting a sting and then using a traffic law to suppress the right to assemble and freedom of speech. Or worse, trying to change the law on the fly, so even when protesters obtain permits, etc. these will become meaningless--this is what's going on as well as instigation of violence by police.

We have many examples of this in our history, which is really sad and embarrassing since the US is supposedly the "model" for other countries (think Syria, Iran) that we condemn for brutality against their people. The best example is the occupation of parks during the Great Depression, and Hoover ordering a militarized attack and destruction of the encampment. Man, we haven't progressed at all, have we?

Well.... I'm sick of paying for some stuff too. Sick of paying taxes that get used to bail out wall street. Sick of paying for the health, education and housing of foriegn nationals who are here illegally. Sick of paying for welfare for people who game the system, a system that rewards people for having children they can't afford to raise without government assistance. Sick of Minimum wage being so low that the government has to give the full time workers food stamps, instead of making their employer pay them enough to live. My tax dollars for bigger company profits and executive bonusses. Sick of paying taxes that are wasted on stimulus bills with no real effect. Just for instance - The President stood in front of a bridge selling his latest fix, while in California the new Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge was assembled in China, by Chinese workers, then shipped here in pieces. Chinese Engineers and specialists are overseeing American workers in the final assembly, but there are still a great many Chines workers there, living in Company Towns. No American workers helped in the manufacturing. I'm sick of a government that feels free to disregard the will of the people they are supposed to work for.

All I want is for My Government to put the interests of it's own people ahead of anything else.

Seems simple, doesn't it?

You might say the OWS is a union and that has been in the past how the middle class came to be. As for the comment they are protesting for hand outs, what about all the people that have jobs but have had their hours cut and pay cut. How about Wal-Mart cutting insurance to its part time employees? Are we to become a nation of part time workers so corporations can get richer? The economy will never get better as long as people are making less. Anyone know any corps' that lost money this last quarter? Even Netflix made money and they lost 800,000 subscribers. Go OWS!

Pay careful attention to the actions of the police with the demonstrators of the OWS movement and you will see borderline infractions on the part of law enforcement that are criminal. They can't come up with legitimate reasons for having the demonstrations halted because of First Amendment Rights, therefore, they are coming up with all types of harassment and charges that normally wouldn't be bothered with. The actions of OWS movement has people concerned to the point that nomatter what legal actions will be taken against the participants, they won't go away quietly. They're making their point heard every day and more and more of the "silent majority" are becoming awakened to their cause. The sleeping giant just got rustled from his nap and it may not be pretty.

I believe Mr. Paul - would you elect a guy with 2 first names? - should read and heed the following to better understand the importance and purpose of the OWS movement:

http:/ /www.nationalmemo.com/article/us-income-inequality-unsustainable-says-bill-clinton

THIS FROM THE LAST GUY TO BALANCE THE FEDERAL BUDGET! Everyone should at least listen.

Actually, if you really want to get down to it..it was Newt Gingrich that actually balanced the budget...Clinton just signed it and came along for the ride..

Please D -

no history re-writes.

thank you

I've got news for you. I'm the part of the 99% that pays taxes.

Me too. What has that got to do with the price of cotton in Texas?

He didn't say that about 'OWS' but about some specific demonstrators.

No you have been out of touch did you even know that the OWS was coming? or did msnbc have to tell you.. How about the college education loan bailout that is on the way? you didn't know about that either

Times are a changing. And you can thank the progressive movement for the loss of work ethic and self responsbility. They want their nanny state. And they are willing to riot in the streets if necessary to get it.

Really, Juditha? Minimum wage jobs pay enough to allow you to meet your monthly obligations? Let's do a little thought experiment (mathematics, Juditha).

The federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. The currently accepted, full time work week consists of 40 hours. For simplicity's sake, let's just say there are exactly 52 weeks in a year.

$7.25/hr x 40hrs/week x 52weeks/year = $15,080/year

$15,080 for an entire year's worth of work.

$15,080

This is before payroll taxes are taken out (everybody pays those . . . except anyone who's entire income is derived from capital gains, interest or investments, which means that part of that '47% who do not pay income taxes', are very rich people who not only do not pay income taxes, they also do not pay any of the payroll taxes that the poor still pay . . . but that's another subject . . .).

So, let's take out SS of 4.2% (6.2% next year, unless the Republican/TP Inc. party stops filibustering the bill that continues the 2% break President Obama was able to get through Congress, but we'll use the lower rate . . . just because) and Medicare taxes of 1.45% (that's what I paid in 2005, it's also probably what you paid in 2005, check your W-2, it's close enough for this example, anyway).

$15,080.00 - ((.042 x $15,080.00) + (.0145 x $15,080.00) = $15,080.00 - $852.02 = $14,227.98

$14,227.98.

Let's see what that equates to on a weekly basis. Again, we are assuming a year that is exactly 52 weeks long . . .

($14,227.98/yr) / (52wks/yr) = $273.62/wk

$273.62/week

How much is that per month? Well, here we are going to use a bit more accuracy, but remember that there really isn't exactly 52 weeks in a year, either. So . . .

52wks/4mths = 4.33wks/mth.

(4.33wks/mth) x ($273.62/week) = $1184.75

Consider that typical housing costs (not including utilities) for a person should equal no more that 1/4 of your income.

$1184.75/4 = $296.19/mth . . . ever seen any place that costs only $296.19 a month to rent, or buy?

What about food? Well, after paying to live in a grand palace for the paltry sum of $296.19/month, a person has:

$1,184.75/mth - $296.19/mth = $888.56/mth

$888.56/mth

$888.56/mth to spend on food . . . but first, one must pay for utilities for the grand palace they are living in (you know, for things like heat, light, water, sewage . . . the luxuries of life), and they must pay for transportation to, and from this wonderful, lucrative job they have that is paying them the princely sum of $7.25/hr.

So, Juditha, before you start saying that anyone should be able to 'meet their obligations on minimum wage', answer this question: Could you meet your obligations working a minimum wage job? If you answer 'yes', then you are either lying, or you do not live in the USA.

Yes, Rob in ma-3189632, people are willing to riot to be able to feed themselves and their families, to have enough to put a roof over their heads, and to get the care they need if their life is in danger.

However, as has been previously pointed out to you, there was no violence until the police decided they would take away freedom of speech, and the right of the people to peaceably assemble.

Matthew

When the parks close at 11:00 or whatever time they close, your right to assemble there goes away.

Guess again, Steve. You obviously missed the source of the paraphrasing of my comment. Nowhere in the Constitution is there anything saying that my rights are only applicable between the hours of 6am and 11pm.

Because when I worked for minimum wage I was in high school living at home, minimum wage was $2.25 an hour and I could easily buy 5 gallons of gasoline for that $2.25, now minimum wage is $7.15 an hour and your lucky if you can buy 2 gallons of gasoline for that, and now you want me to be the head of the household and support myself on that, that's the difference, and it is a huge difference.

The main idea of the American Dream is the opportunity to better yourself, and for your children to do even better than you.

Those who devote the years and financial investment into college--often working while taking classes, and/or then go on to climb the corporate ladder, maybe working evenings and weekends thereby sacrificing time with family and a social life, who now find themselves out of work--many in their 50s who need to prepare for retirement, cannot get a minimum wage job even if they try. And most importantly, shouldn't have to.

First of all, no one will hire them, not even at Burger King because they are over-qualified, and well old. Secondly, no one can live on minimum wage unless they have multiple incomes from other family members (like illegals do living many to a house) or roommates--otherwise they would have to live out of their car. Even a so-called "living wage" of say around $13/hour will not cover all the bills, and certainly won't cover unexpected expenses such as a doctor bill, car repair, etc.

But for those who have paid their dues and have worked hard and done everything they were supposed to do...To be told they should just make lemonade out of lemons is despicable. And anyone who could write what you wrote, Juditha, tells me you did not make the sacrifice to go to college, and happen to have a fairly secure job and probably a double-income standard of living because of a spouse. You better hope your luck holds out--don't get sick, don't get divorced, don't get sued, don't lose your job, etc.

Steve, et al -- Please research Martial Law. A key element is imposing curfews, and of course suppressing the right to assemble, free speech, etc. What people like you don't get, just like all the other individual and civil rights including the Patriot Act, is the right that matters to you could be the next right to go. We must ALL remain vigilant to protect ALL rights.

Rob in ma-3189632

"Times are a changing. And you can thank the progressive movement for the loss of work ethic and self responsbility. They want their nanny state. And they are willing to riot in the streets if necessary to get it."

Are you seriously paraphrasing Dylan here while bad mouthing progressives? I mean he may be one of the 1% but is surely progressive in his thinking. You are either progressive or regressive or for preserving the status quo. So next fall the choice will be quite clear. Not too many taking that middle position.

Isn't it strange that while we hear all of this talk about those who sponge of the government and live a life of luxury from this bounty they apparently receive there is not a single candidate who will dare use an actual individual or family as an example. Go out and find me someone who is supposedly doing this and spotlight them as a symbol of this supposed problem. It would be your Joe McCarthy moment I promise you.

In the end those like yourself are part of the "I got mine Jack/ Keep your hands off of my stack" crowd. That is apparently something Jesus uttered on the cross that didn't get recorded in the Bible. Roger Waters just heard it and put it to song. Because it seems to be what many American Christians believe especially the fundi's. That's what the Tea Party is really all about.

The times have indeed "[a] changed" and it isn't so easy as when those white, male and affluent like myself could have a fairly cut and dried path. But the longest I have ever gone without employment since I was 16 has been about two weeks (that about 3 1/2 decades to be clear). But of course you think I am a layabout because I am a progressive and have always been and even though my income likely dwarfs your own. And I am not alone in that demographic.

Really think you can get by on minimum wage, Juditha? Got a book for you to read:

Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed

Or watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yloNmBTKNIE

It's the TV show called "30 Days" by Morgan Spurlock who made the movie "Supersize Me." He tries living on minimum wage for 30 days. See how it turns out for him.

Matthew

Guess again, Steve. You obviously missed the source of the paraphrasing of my comment. Nowhere in the Constitution is there anything saying that my rights are only applicable between the hours of 6am and 11pm.

Your right to assemble goes away when the park closes.

Freedom of Assembly Clause restrictions

The right to assemble is not an absolute right. There are some restrictions on this right as there are with other rights. The right to assemble is not as strongly protected by the government as other rights, such as the freedom of speech. This is because groups that assemble often do so, not with just speech, but with some type of conduct, such as picketing, protesting, marching or gathering in a park, which may disrupt the peace.

The courts have ruled that, while it is the responsibility of the government to protect the people's right to assemble, it is also the government's responsibility to keep the peace. Because of this, the courts have allowed governments to make reasonable restrictions on the time, place and manner of these assemblies. The government may place restrictions on the right to assemble that will maintain law and order, facilitate traffic, protect private property and reduce noise congestion.

http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/freedom-of-assembly-clause.html

Picketing in a park does none of the things you mentioned as being valid restrictions. Once again, you are wrong.

Hmmm, seems a judge in Atlanta just backed me up.

Funny how he NEVER specifies what those handouts are, right Chris? A bunch of the "teabaggers" were awfully concerned about their Social Security. Is that a handout in Paul's eyes? Paul is clueless.

No Obama is clueless What is he doing about taxation of S.Security lets see? Nothing

Don't get me started newday. It appears Paul supports part of the OWS movement. It's refreshing to see a politican who doesn't sit on the fence like the rest of them.

He Who Shall Not Be Named 2012

So are you age discriminating?

Hey Marco, even Wallace learned to adjust his thinking. Paul is stuck in the 50's. What a great time that was! Drive in movies, great cars, sock hops, poodle skirts, rock 'n roll, saddle shoes, red scares, fear a nuclear war, senator mccarthy, segregated schools, and open rampant racism.

It's clear you don't really listen to what he says and get your information from him from the media. He is ALL about liberty of the individual.

Silly comment. Ron Paul is for equal rights for ALL. And government of the people, NOT the banksters.

With you on all of that, Kathryn!

newdayDawning--thanks for your support in an earlier post.

Macro: Kathryn wasn't being age-discriminatory. She was pointing out that Paul's thinking has not evolved over his 76 years.

And Wayne: It's not the 1950's that Paul is stuck in. It's the 1850's. If he were given his way, this country would resemble the loose organization of federated states in Germany, pre-Bismarck days.

Kathryn, "teabaggers" is a term used for a specific sexual practice.

You liberals cant win on the merits, so you slime, smear and belittle your political opponents. You ought to be ashamed, but you have no shame.

". . .you slime, smear and belittle your political opponents. You ought to be ashamed, but you have no shame."

My gosh, Bob! Based on my previous exchange with you that a little like the pot calling the kettle black. . . .

Arggghhhh! Why won't this let me edit the changes when it says it's going to give me the chance to do so!?! That should have been: Based on my previous exchange with you, that's a little like the pot calling the kettle black. . . .

They love Hermann Cain! They had posters of Obama with a bone through his nose, so I guess that must have had something to do with his fiscal policies.

Not to mention, Jack in Portsmouth, it was the TEA Party people, themselves, who first called themselves 'teabaggers'.

Ironic, no?

Your ageism is extremely unattractive and revolting. Generally ANY 76 year old is much wiser than the crap you wrote.

The man demonstrates the learning of watching a corrupt institution, Congress for 20 years and at least as long studying the quite noble intent of the founding fathers as embodied in the Constitution, which, I dare say, you are incapable of understanding. Ron Paul has not wasted his breath in this campaign or any other on the BS the media echoes from the other candidates. His ENTIRE purpose and focus is to undo all that the 2 parties have done to bury this country in unending debt and lasting poverty.

thats ok he would do good as President

Yeah, president for the 1%.

Paul's plans are all slow when it comes to the removal of welfare or social safety net policies. You have to understand that a major part of his platform is the removal of the Federal Reserve and its inflationary printing cycle; that's so critical to his platform.

Right now, the Fed prints money. This causes inflation, which devalues money. This is done PERPETUALLY. Every year, cash on hand or in savings is worth less than the year before. This is actually by design; by devaluing savings, people can be coerced into spending or
investing their surplus income, which according to Keynesian theory will "stimulate" the economy.

The problem is, the way this money is injected into the economy is by loans TO BANKS. There was a time in America when savings accounts got good interest; nowadays they don't because it's cheaper for banks to just take more money from the Federal Reserve.

People point to Ron Paul saying "you should be responsible for yourselves" and show examples of how difficult it can be but neglect to point out that this difficulty arises because they essentially take a pay cut every year due to Government-sanctioned inflation.

So who DOESN'T lose? Those whose income is derived from investments. Occupy Wall Street believes this is because the capital gains tax is unfairly low relative to the income tax (keep in mind, Ron Paul wants to do away with BOTH of those taxes entirely), but it's also in large part because investments beat the rate of inflation. This is the STATED GOAL OF KEYNESIAN INFLATIONARY POLICIES, remember. In order to stimulate the economy, we allow those who invest their income to get richer while those who don't have enough disposable income to invest, due to obligations like rent and bills, get poorer. The Federal Reserve Bank GENERATES THE INCOME GAP via its policies. And yet the
Occupy Wall Street guys, who are (a) pissed about the growing income gap, and (b) pissed about the way our government favors banks over citizens, are standing AGAINST the guy who wants to put a stop to both by returning this country to sound currency. And why? Because Ron Paul
is, for some reason, painted as a 1%er (remember, this is the ONLY Congressman who doesn't participate in the Congressional pension fund, who worked his way through medical school, AND who would only accept a Presidential salary of $39k annually) for believing in self-sufficiency.

But they leave out the part where he doesn't plan to demand self sufficiency from the citizenry UNTIL THE SYSTEM IS FIXED SO THAT SELF-SUFFICIENCY IS ONCE AGAIN POSSIBLE. And they also leave out the part where self-sufficiency is demanded of corporations and banks as well as citizens, so that our paychecks don't shrink to bail out a financial institution that destroyed the value of our homes by rolling the dice on subprime mortgage securities.

The whole thing sounds very 99%er to me.

Robot; Ron Paul 2012

PS
Sorry for the caps-blasting, but I've posted a wall of text and I want the important parts to catch the eye.

Losing steam, the OWS are just getting started.

They are taking charge of their lives. They are sick and tired of country going down the tubes so we can give more tax cuts to the richest.

The Koch brothers went from 7.5 billion dollars worth to 50 billion dollars worth in 10 years of bush tax cuts. If 42.5 billion isn't enough to create jobs, then another tax cut is not going to do it. Instead the Koch brothers have been laying off workers.

Meanwhile Cain campaigns for more tax cuts for his rich Koch brothers puppet masters while raising the taxes on 84% of Americans. Jobs, republicans don't need no stinking jobs, they just need more tax cuts for the richest.

That trickle down is just more of the P!ss on America brought to you by the republicans and Norquist.

I'm sorry but I don't see any direction to the protests, just a general venting of frustration. My sympathy with their frustration stops when I see small business owners being harassed, their storefronts broken, people pissing over public property and beating up people as has happened in Oakland at least. And when the city authorities (mayor, police) do their imperfect best to deal with the situation it is simply irrational to make comparisons with the Arab Spring. If you're so angry people get serious and overthrow the government! Better yet, shutdown the government as much as possible and take power back to the states and local level. Personally I'm not for giving power to another imperialist demagogue (e.g. Obama) who will only repeat the same old pattern of foreign adventures and wining-and-dining with the elite. Ergo: Ron Paul.

An 'ergo' based on fallacious premises is not intellectually arrived at.

So what are all of you Ron Paul trolls going to do when he loses the primaries . . . again? You people always show up on these blogs when Presidential elections are underway, and disappear when Ron Paul loses.

They will blow off plenty of steam at the voting booth next November, they are not going anywhere.

You got that right, the rich endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

SO? You poor people are REALLY boring me. Stop your crying & get to shining my shoes.. that's all you liberal bottom feeders are good for.

You had better think again if you think only liberals are suffering at the hands of the rich. But, thanks to the republican politicians thinking like you and people are changing their minds every day.

It seems to me that all the money in the world can not buy the republicans a soul. So Dog if you hate America so much and you are supposedly so rich and we bore you so much, why are you here?

Or are you just being a typical republican and just have got to poop in the water for everyone to make you happy?

Yes pooping in your water makes me happy. There, now wash my car.

You got it, Master Link. Kind of defies any normal rules of logic, doesn't it?

Besides, many of those protesters actually work during the day and join the protests at night. Example? The veteran who was injured in Oakland (sorry, I forgot his name) that has been in the news recently.

Master Link,

As you pointed out, OWS is looking for accountability. They're pissed off about the "over the top" salaries and bonuses of the CEOs of corporations who lay off workers and cut benefits--even when the corporation is failing. Not atypically, the (paid) board of directors of these corporations are CEOs or retired CEOs of other corporations. It's the "old boy network" in full bloom. Meanwhile, the stockholders--the people who invest in those corporations--have no say in the matter of salaries.

When the crash came in 2008, and the chips were really down, we Americans knew we could count on our government. What happened? We were ROBBED at gunpoint by Treasury Secretaries who were suddenly more powerful than the Presidents! They put a GUN to Congress' head too, and said; "No TARP bailout for the big banks? Then it's MARTIAL LAW!" The Banksters are IN CHARGE, No People, No Congress, and No President is going to get the way. We got a New President of "all the people"? Same thing. He puts in the biggest Federal Reserve TARP bankster as Treasury Secretary, and the same fun game continues. WHEN are we going to wise up? Ron Paul, always probing the Greenspans and Bernankes about their crooked money and self-serving secret ways, is all about ENDING THE Federal Reserve! He's the ONE. Who can restore America's greatness.

VERY well said, RGiles. Voted.

Obviously he just popped in front of a camera, said these few senctences, gave the camera the finger, and stiff-armed his way out of the crowd.

I'd say its liberal media spin but its not; its all mainstream media. Every time one of these are published a few newcomers read them and make up there minds in the 30 seconds it takes to read this crap. So why shouldn't his supporters be irate? It shouldn't be tolerated.

I know man. That's how Ron rolls. ;) I sent msnbc an e-mail. This is the poorest excuse for journalism I've seen in some time. The author shouldn't have a job for the sheer lack of information alone, twisting the statement or not.

It's how you "define" the Constitution and interpret the "principles." Many of us think we never left either. And, the questioning of someone's "loyalty" to the country because you may have "different" interpretations is not really in the spirit of a democratic society, which holds "free speech" has one of its most important rights.

Assume? Have you seen the Socialist aspects at the Occupies? That's not assuming, especially when he uses the word "some" and not "all".

Who's they? Who says "that the OWS movement is the exact opposite of the Tea Party movement." I know it's hard to understand why people would protest Wall Street, but putting words in the mouths of the protesters is ineffective. Please stop.

wow...<BlameObama>...I don't know whether to take you seriously or write you off as an certifiable knucklehead that just stays at home all day watching Fox News with an aluminum cap on his/her head.

As a matter of fact, here is a project for you, find out how many republicans promised NOT to raise taxes and did it anyway.