Feisty -

Cain really does not identify with his race, or the class of his origins. All of his pronouncements and proposals reflect a strong identification with an aspirational upper class - his condescension toward Black people, and in particular people of middle-to-low class standing, is revolting. So also is his disdainful attitude toward the mere existence of poverty or misfortune.

I don't ever think I've seen someone more deserving of the epithet, "Uncle Tom." And I certainly felt that way toward a few over the years - and in one case, betrayed, by James Meredith.

Herman Cain's ignorance is literally wilful. He knows perfectly well that his advocacy of the privatization of Social Security would destroy it while handing bundles of bucks to the Wall St. pirates in pinstripes. He knows his positions will definitely impoverish millions.

He doesn't care about anyone else, except his country club pals and the wealthy right-wingers supporting him now.

Herman Cain is worse than an embarrassment, he's a menace.

So much for your quick rise.......bye bye Cain.

I've often thought that Mr. Cain strongly resembles "Mr. Potter."

I've often thought that Mr. Cain strongly resembles "Mr. Potter."

True, but Mitt's the one who's been doing the Potter routine.

The other day, for example, Mitt said that instead of the government interfering, we should have allowed the foreclosure system to work.

Exactly. Let Bailey's Building and Loan fail so all the former homeowners are forced to rent crummy little places in Potter's Field. No bread, no wine, no salt.

I doubt that either Cain or Romney would have told Uncle Billy that he had the money, either.

If Uncle Billy was poor, it was his own fault.

And another cockroach comes out of the woodwork to run for president. Someone turn the lights on already to scatter them...

This guy would absolutely destroy America with his ideology. The other candidates aren't any better either. And the Democratic party is just better at making Americans think they have our backs. Even though they are just as bad as the Republicans.

This is the main reason our government needs to be turned upside down and we need to get every last one of them out of there and start over.

@onesoul

American ideology such as stealing from the current generation to fund current retirees benefits? American ideology is all about individual freedoms, not this current "give to the needy" ideology, thats traditionally what charities are for.

Why can i not opt out? I can manage money better than the federal government can, thats for damn sure, yet I will have my wages systematically stolen from me throughout my working career, most if not all i will never see again. How could you seriously be in agreement with that?

What a complete load of horse pucky:

lvingbarefoot

I guess Republican MLK could not identify with his race either.

Keep spewing your crap. People need to earn a living, not be dependents of the state like libs believe

Martin Luther King was in Memphis to support striking garbagemen when he was killed. Herman Cain wouldn't deign to talk to the garbagemen - especially ones in a labor union!

Your mis-characterization of Social Security as "dependency on the state" is yet another example of wilful ignorance. I've been paying into my Social Security account since 1964 - and my Medicare account since 1965. I have paid for the benefits (and am still paying into those accounts, by they way). So also has everyone else who earned the right to Social Security.

Typical conservative propaganda lies. The right wing really LIKES pouring concrete between its ears!

lvingbarefoot

You are being incredibly disingenuous:

1. You know that when Republican Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 he was opposed by the conservative Southern Democrats
2. You know that MLK was a Republican when the Republicans were on the side of civil rights in the South.
3. You know that those Southerners who chose to pursue racist politics fled the Democratic party in droves following the passage of civil rights legislation five decades ago.
4. You know that civil rights legislation was favored by legislators of both parties outside of the South and overwhelmingly opposed by legislators representing the South of both parties
5. You know that the Republican party associated with MLK is nothing like the current Republican party

You know all of those things (or should), yet you persist in whitewashing the actions of the conservatives. Your suggestion that MLK has anything in common with current Republicans is completely disingenuous.

Characterizing MLK as a Republican and ignoring the real story is merely spreading a myth that will be believed only by those who failed history (or are the sad victims of Southern education systems)

Can't accuse Cain of playing a 'race card' - he's using the entire deck! Not surprising coming from a Republican candidate - that's how the Republicans won the south, after all.

To Republicans, Social Security is evil because it has worked. Government using a program to promote work for the benefit of the working class has been a resounding success and should be a model for all retirement plans.

Republicans believe in subsidizing 'success' by transferring Main Street equity to the investment accounts of the 'successful'. That political philosophy has created our current economy - has created the current income disparity - has created redistribution of wealth from the lowest to the highest.

Cain is a farce - he does not represent how to become successful in the United States.

Nuff??? Hey Cleatus, u's gots sum smokes? Just "Nuff" fur me Billy Bob...

The Chilean model is not very successful. It has high fees associated with it. Many are unable to obtain a decent pension therefore the government subsidizes a portion. Additionally a VAT was recently invoked to help further fund the program. During conversions of systems the government poured a lot of money into the new model to help make it successful. The Chilean model will not work here. Not possible as we could not even come close to funding it.

"First, along come the Tea partiers and threaten their freebies,"

Really??? Wasn't the most popular sign at the TP rallies "Keep your government hands off my medicare"?

@Brendan:

Why can i not opt out? I can manage money better than the federal government can, thats for damn sure, yet I will have my wages systematically stolen from me throughout my working career, most if not all i will never see again. How could you seriously be in agreement with that?

The reason is you are not funding your own retirement. You know that, but you still ask stupid questions trying to stir up crap. you are funding the retirement of your parents and grandparents. Since that system is going to eventually be stretched very thin, imagine how it would be if you took todays worker contributions out of the equation...that's right. it can't work. don't ask questions you know the answer too, just because you are scared of the answers.

Social Security is sort of like insurance. You pay for it, but you may never use all you pay into it. I would rather have the money taken from me now, with the knowledge that I will have access to it if I live long enough to need it, than to risk not saving enough to get me through until I die.

lvingbarefoot

RE: My #1.11

Each one of my five statements is historically accurate. You disagree. I will not ask you to provide proof that any of the statements are wrong because no proof exists.

IF THIS IS CAPITALISM THEN......

CAPITALISM SUCKS!!!!!
Let's go to war with these greedy people!!!!

I woud rather fight these greedy people than to live like this!!!!!

Greg Parker-626855 -

If what you wrote was actually true, I and many others would be celebrating with you.

Here's the problem - racism is not only far from gone in American society, culture, economy and politics, it is even more institutionalized and insidious than it was under Jim Crow. The segregationists of the past were visible - the racists and segregationists of today are not (obviously this leaves out the nutcase militia types and skinheads). And by the way, that was always the problem for minorities living in the so-called "open" North and West in the past.

Fortunately, racism is also far more widely regarded as repugnant and destructive than it was in the "old days." There's surely been progress, but not at the rate your post seems to suggest.

Today poverty, unemployment, and legal oppression are the shackles around the ankles of a vast number of Black Americans. It is wonderful that so many have risen from those conditions to comfort and opportunity in the middle- and upper-middle classes, thanks in great part to the opportunities for education and advancement brought by Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity laws, and more.

But when the nation would have battled to spread the benefits of American advancement to the largely urban poor and done much to prevent the devastation visiting people today - and not merely among Black people, but also especially Native Americans and Hispanics, as well as a large, unseen tide of Asian refugees, along with Caucasian poor - the Republican conservative movement decided the programs should not be continued. I was there, I worked in many of them, I know many success stories before the axes fell.

Now homelessness, hunger, joblessness are highest among Black and Hispanic people in America. The wealth gap between White and minority segments is staggering. This is the institutionalization of inequality.

As for your revernt kow-tow before the god of Capitalism, which of us here has said we wish that basic system to end, or not be extended to uplift more people? The Tea Party/Grover Norquist version of the tale, however, is alrady known as such a miserable failure that it eventually brought the global economy to ruins.

Rigidly ideological right wingers are simply firmly delusional in every respect. And Herman Cain's ideas are among the most absurd ever proposed as a plan for any kind of America except an economic, feudal aristocratic fascist state.

(And for those of you who wish to dabble in irrelevancies, I am the lily-white offspring of Northern European forebears, middle-class, working people.)

If Cain was only an "Uncle Tom" striving to be in good standing with "the white man" -- Cain's statement that if you're unemployed it's your own fault is no doubt catering to the white Teabaggers, but such hate speech is unacceptable to most Americans of all races and backgrounds. In other words, Cain goes far beyond an "Uncle Tom."

In regard to redistribution of wealth, from the public sector to the private sector, from the poor to the rich, this is the constant theme of Cain's platform, whether it's the 9-9-9 tax code, or whether it's abolishing Social Security, the really offensive lie is Cain saying the OWS shouldn't blame Wall Street and the banks for the economic meltdown. And of all things they want to deregulate to times even before TARP.

This is at the core of all Teapublican campaigns really, with lies that TARP was needed because of Fredie and Fannie. Now we all know Fredie and Fannie were amoung the many bad actors, but these organizations were followers, not leaders. Most of all it was Wall Street/investment banks that were responsible for the toxic mortgage securities--not Fredie and Fannie. And it was the toxic mortgage securities that caused the collapse.

So OWS movement is absolutely correct to blame Wall Street and banks. The statistics/data support this in many ways. For example tracking interest rates banks paid on savings accounts, which has plummeted over time from 15% to 1%. As such, day trading began, with the money going to Wall Street, and many losing their shirts. Then guaranteed pension plans were replaced with 401k's in which people have lost their retirement to Wall Street. Now the right-wingers like Cain want to destroy the last bastion for the common folk, Social Security, and give all those funds to Wall Street too. Whether wanting to abolish Social Security, or privatizing Medicare (Paul Ryan), it is all about moving money to wall Street and Big Business.

I watch these GOP/TP candidates, and the Teapublican Party leadership in general, and wonder why they hate America so much. I'm not saying this for effect, but out of sincerity. Anyone who wants the poor to have no way out of poverty, who wants middle class Americans to sink into poverty, and most of all wants the elderly to go back to the days of begging on the street and choosing between cat food or paying the heating bill hates America.

Everyone on the right keeps talking about all the freebee's the left gets. Can someone tell me what those are, I would like one, I have worked hard for everything I have and not gotten one freebee where do I sign up, can't find a store for these anywhere on the left side of the road.

There are free houses and food for many people that know how to work the system.

livingbarefoot -

You are peddling a pack of lies. Below I place an article posted on the 'vine by jumpshotjarrod, http://jumpshotjarrod.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/01/4155152-debunking-conservative-lies-about-welfare

Debunking Conservative Lies about Welfare

Anyone who has been on Newsvine for more than a cup of coffee has seen this before; a person who insists on pitching myth after myth about welfare in order to sidetrack substantive debate about social welfare policy and spending, as well as to demonize Democrats and President Obama in general. In fact, these myths don't just occur on the Vine; they are also prominently displayed on television, in books, and on various websites, as well as heard on radio and in direct conversation. They tend to go something like this: "lazy people looking for handouts are ruining the country", "lazy people are taking my tax dollars", "welfare makes people dependent", "welfare queens have more children in order to get more money", "the poor refuse to work because they will be supported by the rich", "Obama wants to take from the 'haves' and give to the 'have nots'", "Obama supporters want a handout", "Obama wants everyone dependent on the Government". If they aren't worded exactly like this, they are simply different variations of these types of statements.

As it turns out, according to the TANF statistics on welfare recipients, these statements - all of them - are quite simply false. That's right, every single one of them isn't supported by anything not produced by the Heritage Foundation. As often as these myths get thrown around, you'd think they'd have been proven to the degree that the Pythagorean Thereom has. But, a rather peculiar thing occurs each time one of these welfare gems is thrown out; it never seems to be accompanied by any supporting evidence. It's just tossed out there as if everyone knows it to be true. Well, let's take a look at the numbers:

In the fiscal year of 2009, there were an average of a little over 4 million people on welfare in any given month. With a population of over 300 million people total, 4 million's a pretty miniscule number to act as if a large portion of someone's tax dollars are going to 'some lazy person on welfare' link. Not to mention, About 75% of all 'lazy' recipients were children (link pg. 86).

That last fact provides a nice segue for another welfare myth: that people have more children in order to get more assistance - welfare queens, as they are generally referred to. Well, the average number of recipient children in a welfare family -1.8 (link pg. 86) is actually less than the national average for number of children in a family - 1.86 (link pg. 1). In fact, one in two recipient families only had one child and only one in ten recipient families had more than three children (link pg. 86). How could that possibly be if welfare recipients have more kids in order to receive more assistance? Quite simply, it couldn't.

Oh, and in regard to that 'welfare creates dependency' diatribe? The average stay for a family on welfare was 35 months, with only 6.6% of families exceeding the limit for benefit assistance (link pg. 8). According to the 1996 House Ways and Means COmmittee, half of families on assistance exited assistance in less than 24 months link. Not to mention, the average assistance - cash and noncash combined - was $370 a month (link pg. 12). Dependence? On $370 a month?

In terms of tax dollars, USgovernmentspending.com lists 2009 expenses budgeted for Family and Children programs at $80.1 billion, which was around 2% of the federal budget link.

Say we throw in unemployment as well, even though unemployment is seperate from welfare in eligibility criteria and application - 106.5 billion, still under 5% of the Federal budget when combined with Children and Family expenditures link.

Hopefully, everyone is starting to get the picture. The welfare landscape that is consistently created primarily by Republicans and Conservatives is that welfare is bankrupting the nation; that lazy people are draining society because they refuse to do for themselves and would rather take from everyone else. The Conservative story goes that Barack Obama and his Administration are trying to grow the 'lazy, handout wanting pool' so that they can gain some form of diabolical control of the people. All of that plays well on FOX News, but statistically speaking, it's just not true.

The fact is that welfare rolls grow when the jobs go; it's that simple. As these NPR and WSJ articles point out link, link State welfare rolls have increased - some rather substantially - since the economy (and thus employment) went belly up. This suggests rather succintly that people were working and taking care of themselves and their families until they lost their jobs, primarily through no fault of their own.

Since Clinton's 1996 Welfare Reform Act, welfare rolls had been on a steady decline until the recent economic turmoil. That 1996 legislation essentially capped the amount of money each state would receive for assistance and capped the time a family could spend on assistance. Also, that legislation provided incentives for States which proved effective at helping transition families from welfare to work. As the Wall Street Journal noted, these changes resulted in welfare rolls decreasing by over 60% since 1995 (roughly 5 milllion families to 1.6 million before the recession) link:

Welfare cases peaked at above five million in 1995 and declined sharply after the 1996 law put time limits on benefits and emphasized moving recipients from welfare to work.

The numbers speak for themselves. However, too often, people utilize their own anecdotal experiences to generalize millions of people. They say something like "my neighbor has a big screen TV, 20 inch rims on her car, and a brand new cell phone but she's got six kids and still receiving welfare" - as if that story somehow means that every person on welfare MUST be exactly the same. It's a classic case of comparing the ant with the elephant and acting as if they are the same size simply because they both exist.

Contrary to what each individual's anecdotal experiences may suggest, the collective numbers paint a much, much different picture. Of course there are always going to be a small portion of individuals who abuse various systems. However, generalizing that small group as justification for not paying attention to the facts of the situation is recipe for disaster.

So here's a gentle plea that if people are going to discuss welfare, why not keep the discussion within the ballpark of factual and reliable?

Sick of hearing poor me, that's unfair, my group deserves special treatment, bla,bla,bla.... Affirmative action needs to end, enough of this favoritism..... Qualifications and experience only race and sex have nothing to do with any thing!!!!!

Ran out of time...

The housing boom was another effect of banks paying so little on savings, and 401ks being a joke compared to guaranteed professionally-managed pension plans (not just in low earnings, but fees that wipe out earnings), which spurred investment in real estate. It all goes back to banking practices, and why Americans don't have savings let alone private retirement plans and if they have retirement plans they must make risky investments for it to have any payoff. Social Security MUST be saved at all costs--it's all that remains. Throw the Teapublicans out.

Dom -- Some of the best in-depth reporting I've seen with links to actual source.

Thanks, outstanding!!

Anna Molly, Mitts comments on the foreclosure process is actually somewhat correct. Most economists have said that the housing recession continues because of the inability to reduce the housing inventory in a more market based fashion. It certainly is the same thing going on in commercial real estate too. Obama's approach which I know many economic advisors also thought was the right one, thought taking the band aid off very slowly would do more good than ripping it off quickly and taking the pain all at once. We have discovered that approach is incorrect. That said, because of the enormity of the problem, its virtually impossible for banks to take a measured approach which is causing hardship and a failure to rework loans where they could survive. But in cases, take Illinois where it a 500 day process to take back a house, borrowers who have and will never have the ability to pay a mortgage on the house they live in for whatever reason, live in the house for 2 years and pay nothing--not a thing no matter their income before the house is foreclosed. That has the economic impact of keeping housing values down and keeping inventory relatively high. Thats an unfortunate reality and I realize your solution would be too just forgive the mortgage and give the house to the person who cant afford it but doing that across the board will just pit neighbor against neighbor and as the person who worked hard and paid their mortgage gets screwed no matter the economic circumstances.

Even when Mr Cain points out the inherent discrimination in how Social Security is funded and paid out the "progressives" still attack him and essentially call him a racist. I guess the "progressives" think it is just fine that black males are subsidizing the Social Security benefits of those that live longer than them (white females in particular). What ever happened to social and economic justice? I guess the liberals are quick to forget about that mantra once it means that the programs they cherish the most, to keep people beholden to them at the voting booth, are determined to be booth socially and economically unjust.

Once a guy like Herman Cain starts pulling the wool off of the eyes of the black community and uniting people of all races behind the facts, thereby endangering the Dems coveted black vote, the powers that be in the liberal progressive wing of the Dems party (Mr Obama's wing) have to resort to attacking Mr Cain and others like him with all sorts of vitriol that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed. See the posts at the top of the page, for example, calling Mr. Cain an Uncle Tom etc...

Of course any black person that strays from the liberal "progressive" Dem party line is automatically castigated and subject to all kinds of name calling etc..It is standard attack mode for liberal Dems.. If you can't deal with the facts deal out the hack smears.

In fact, the overwhelming majority of younger people today know that SS is, for all intents and purposes, a broken system for them. Couple them with the black males that are being discriminated against by the system and you have taken away a significant chunk of those Mr. Obama is relying upon to vote for him to get reelected. And that is what the liberal "progressives" fear most about Herman Cain.

Beyond Uncle Tom?

Is that Uncle Ruckus (no relation)?

The progressives always state that Cain wants to eliminate social security. I have never seen that can someone provide some comment or something in which he has advocated that position?

John A, can you include all the other forms of welfare in your statistics as I would like to see how that has grown such as food stamps, earned income tax credit, low income housing subsidies etc?

True Patriot--your comments make no sense. The banks pay interest income on your deposits based on the federal funds rate. The current fed has lowered rates to zero and you cant just base your interest rate as an absolute number. For example, if you were earning 6% interest on your CD and inflation was at 2% you would be much better off than if you made 15% and inflation was 13%. As for 401(k) plans, I have no clue what you are talking about as did you know pension plans are invested in the same manner as 401(k) accounts and both can be professionally managed. Banks had nothing to do with 401(k) accounts as virtually all are managed by brokerage firms like T Rowe Price etc.

Tis the Season--dont you get a freebie with your mortgage deduction? What about child tax credit? What about health care? There are so many freebies for all of us that need to be curtailed.

I understand that Cain's 9/9/9 plan is controversial but why do the lefties on this board hate a successful black candidate so much? I would think anyone who is a proven model of success for a minority candidate in which self reliance is what made him successful would be admired. If you dont like his political positions such as 9/9/9 plan then dont vote for him but you can still admire his success. Isnt that what many of you accuse us of not giving Obama the proper respect for his success? If you had put the two side by side without any politics involved, they both would be people worthy of a high amount of respect. In fact, it appears to me that Cain has actually done more in his life to earn respect than Obama prior to running for office. Obama clearly is a great politician but give them both their due.

The greedy multi-national corporations also stole the pension funds. They are actually the BEST way to provide retirement income unless you let the GREEDY CEO's STEAL IT!

Cain is not able....to get the GOP nomination. But if he did the President would win re-election in the biggest landslide in history.

Social Security "immoral". WTF? Social Security is "racist"?

And I'm getting pretty sick of his plantation similes too.

Why do I think Herman Cain rode the "victim" train all the way to the country club?

But really folks, Herman Cain doesn't really want to be President, he just wants to sell books, see himself on TV and get a better deal with FOX than Sarah Palin got. Herman Cain, the new symbol of 21st Century "tokenism".

Obama/Biden 2012

(John A) racism is not only far from gone in American society, culture, economy and politics, it is even more institutionalized and insidious than it was under Jim Crow.

* * *

John,

The issue here is not Black/White -- not anymore. It's "green", as in long green (money) and the opportunity which brings about that long green.

The politics of victimhood makes me want to puke.

We have public schools, yes. We have scholarships, yes. We have the armed forces, complete with G.I. Bill's, and other goodies to "educate". I served -- AND it helped me get where I am today.

I did not grow up with a silver spoon, but went to a community college and later a state 4 years school.

O.K., so no more wah wah wah.

I am having none of it. This has to do with wanting a better life, working hard, seizing the opportunities that are there, and finding out what works for you.

One size does not fit all -- some take the college route, some the military route, some are better as roofer and plumbers (and they make O.K. money too).

P.S. The second thing that really galls me is that many are calling Cain, Uncle Tom. Ever hear of diversity ??? NOT EVERY BLACK IS DEMOCRAT. The Donkey Party needs to get over this.

It would be a great day indeed if 1/2 of the Blacks in America voted Republican, and why not? Lower taxes and opportunities for Black shop owners and entrepreneurs !

I said it from day one that this guys pizza topping-meatballs are rotten and I also think his 999 is immoral. "Eliminating payroll tax is eliminating S.S". The Kocheads is credited in helping this meatball develop 999. The GOP T-Nut express, Koch Cult & Fox news can go to Hell. Wake up America.

Kirk

Cain's plan eliminates the payroll tax which funds Social Security and Medicare .... both employee and employer contributions are eliminated. Since he has identified no alternate source of funds and he considers Social Security "immoral" I think it is safe to say he favors elimination of both programs.

If black peoples support of President Obama was tappering off, Hermann Cain, is now going to fix that problem, if there ever was one. Welcome to the $9.99 all you can eat Pizza buffoon, uh buffet, where can I seat you Mr. Rove? Republicans are in some kind of general election self destruct mode, it is so politically inept, it might just be bad karma.

brendan-4 - I'm sure you understand that SS from its inception was set up to have current workers fund retirees. Both political parties have known for quite sometime that changes in funding are needed. I hope you understand that there was a legitimate reason for setting up SS and until now this program has been a huge success. You claim that you can manage your finances better than the federal govt but can you claim that you can assure yourself that your health will allow you sufficient time to accrue the funds you'll need in your retirement? Can you be assured that your children and spouse(if applicable) will have sufficient funds to continue on without you? There is no certainty that life will always smile on you. There also is nothing stopping you from investing in your future.

SRS-798254

The greedy multi-national corporations also stole the pension funds. They are actually the BEST way to provide retirement income unless you let the GREEDY CEO's STEAL IT!

SRS -

Without a doubt, one of the worst of all the many terrible initiatives of the Reagan Regime was the law allowing the pension funds of companies involved in mergers or acquisitions to be treated like a big fat cookie jar. While normally pension funds were supposed to be inviolated, a "new" company created by a merger or acquisition was exempt.

We could have HOURS of exchanges here about "unfunded liabilities" of pension programs, public and private - but the bottom line to it all would be the same: Promises made to win employee loyalty turned out to be hollow lies .... and today the right wingers want to deny even that.

Social Security discriminating based on race is as simplistic and stupid as his 9-9-9 plan. Bigger issues are Social Security Disability, and to some extent survivor benefits. If Cain were intellectually honest, he would point out how the disabled are supported via SS because our health care system sucks, and how payments to minors and spouses who have not paid into the system is redistribution of wealth. Come on, women live longer than men (though this is evening out), whites live longer than blacks, but then whites earn more and pay more into the system, what ever. If Cain ever thought past a marketing slogan that would be the day.

And then these sh!t heads talk about building costly fences on the border, and drug testing citizens that cost the tax payer a chunk of change, and a whole litany of stupid ideas and never explain how they would pay for it all. No doubt some kind of scheme to transfer wealth from the public to the private sector.

Here's a question for all the GOP/TP presidential hopefuls/Teapublilcans, and Americans in general: What has happened to representation in our country? The majority of Americans support the president's Job Act, the majority wants the rich to pay their fair share in taxes -- There's a whole range of majority support to abortion being legal in the case of rape/incest to legalizing marijuana. Yet congress, both Teapublicans and Democrats, but almost exclusively Teapublicans refuses to represent the majority.

If Cain or any other GOP/TP hopeful wanted to make a case for no taxation, this would be it--taxation without representation--by THEM. But that fact that the majority no longer rules in our constitutional democracy is something everyone should be up-in-arms about.

So now it's okay for the libbies to call a black man a cockroach because he is running on a GOP ticket. Imagine th outrage if a GOP member called Obama a cockroach and all the fall out. You on the left are some of the most hypocritical people I have ever encountered!

I can't have read this right.

Did Cain actually say that SS is discriminatory by it's very nature because it discriminates against blacks. And the reason he thinks it discriminates against blacks is because blacks' 'nature' is less than whites' nature? Did he really say that?

So he thinks that anything that treats blacks and whites as equals is by definition 'discriminatory' against black people! Wow, Wow, Wow. He needs to go back to his mental plantation and retire.

What next, a constitutional ammendment that establishes blacks as less than whites and therefore they deserve more aid? ANd blacks actually believe this stuff ?

Don, that is incorrect. Cain's plan replaces the payroll tax revenue with his new plan. Based on the way they calculated the various revenue streams from his 9/9/9 plan it replaces the payroll tax revenue and the employer's contribution. What is not understood nor addressed is whether the employer's would be forced to increase each employee's salary to account for the removal of this payment. Second, there is no way any politician would dare to eliminate social security so sort of a red herring. Even the smallest of adjustments create fear in both democrats and GOP congress people so they never touch it.

What is missing? Can someone point me to Cain's writing or an in-depth profile on where he stands on foreign policy and affairs. Both in the past and present with regard to the current environment globally.

Thanks in advance.

Honestly, I'm still at a loss for words to effectively comment.

My white father lived long enough to collect 2 SS Checks. My mother collected for a year. She was a white woman so don't say it is only the blacks who die before they collect. They both worked and paid into the system. They also had six children who paid and are still paying into the system We are not complaining. Also are you or Cain aware that when a black man dies, if he has minor children his benefits go to help support his family and widow? To me SS is an insurance company that you pay into . It is not a gift nor a ponzi scheme. You pay for health insurance in the hopes it is there when you need it. Most of you won't need it for years unless you have an emergency. The insurance companies make billions of dollars in profits every year. How many of you pay $5-10000 a year. Do you get your moneys worth ? What you don't use goes to pay for somebody else who needs surgery . You pay into it for years and don't use it and guess what ? When you turn 65 and go on medicare your insurance company becomes the second payer which means they pay your co-pay. Say you are 30 now. You pay thousands of dollars every year for thirty five years. You never have a claim. Then you develop heart disease, or some other ailment. Medicare pays the doctor, your insurance pays what medicare doesn't pay. If you go into the hospital, medicare pays the whole bill unless it's padded with uncovered charges.Your insurance does not cover those padded charges either so you pay for those. That is a whole different discussion....Not everyone gets rich in this world. And not everyone stays healthy through no fault of their own.You can eat what you think is healthy food, don't smoke or drink, and jog every day then find out you have cancer at the age of 33. If you die your children will get something from SS. Just one more example, then I"ll shut up. Until the 70's and 80's, most women didn't work. They stayed home with their children. Minimum wage was $2 an hour in 1972. In the 80's it went to $3.35. You couldn't afford day care. It was $50.00 a week per child. Most men during that time refused to let their wives work. They were too proud. Some men are still that way. We women are still fighting for equal pay for equal work. Most of us elders were raised to pity the poor and give to those in need. Most of us at some times have only been able to afford rice and beans to eat. Without SS for the elderly and welfare for poor children they wouldn't eat. People are living longer due to the advancement of medical care which is very expensive and without SS and medicare your whole 401k, your cd's and other investments can be wiped out in less than a year. Cancer treatment runs into the millions sometimes for treatment that extends your life for two years while you are getting your affairs in order. During that time you are too sick to work. SS disability will help if you've paid into the system long enough and if you don't have savings Medicaid will pay for your cancer treatment. It won't be enough to cover all your expenses but it just might keep your family from starving.

(patriotic) I also think his 999 is immoral.

* * *

Patriot,

Give the man some credit. A fair flat rate, sounds honest and up front to me. If he exempted tax on food and medicine would that make it more fair?

2,000 pages of tax code is BS. The loopholes are BS. An honest system, where everyone pays something, and the payment is proportional is definitely fair.

Maybe 9-9-9 is not that plan, but at least Cain has moved the conversation.

P.S. I have not heard your hero Obama come out with a better proposal.

You and "The Herminator" need to crawl back into the holes from whence you came!

"Cain really does not identify with his race, or the class of his origins. All of his pronouncements and proposals reflect a strong identification with an aspirational upper class"

And the problem with this is what? Imagine if everyone thought of themselves and others this way. Of course, this implies self-responsibility and self-accountability, which a lot of people on this board either deny or consider a flaw.

Funny how the author of the paragraph, John A.-400474 , made it out to be a bad thing, and how many others piled on. Reread it people, and explain how it is a bad thing for America that people would think this way. Looking forward to your well considered and thoughtful comments...

Well Norm because he really does not think that way, he is mighty phony, because if he actually did think the way you and he claim he does, he would realize and say that SS has the same propensity to help or hurt anyone in the same demographic group and in the same fashion regardless of race. He desperately tries to attribute race to something where it has no bearing whatsovever, and then claims to be race neutral, BS, he shot down his own premise, and yours.

brendan-4

@onesoul

American ideology such as stealing from the current generation to fund current retirees benefits? American ideology is all about individual freedoms, not this current "give to the needy" ideology, thats traditionally what charities are for.

Why can i not opt out? I can manage money better than the federal government can, thats for damn sure, yet I will have my wages systematically stolen from me throughout my working career, most if not all i will never see again. How could you seriously be in agreement with that?

Brendan, it's called a "society" for a reason. I'm curious, are you an anarchist? Do you believe we can function without government? You realize all nations on earth and throughout history have developed as a result of people coming together to accomplish goals, for the benefit of themselves and each other that they could not accomplish individually, right? Do you believe we should be able to pick and choose which programs we are willing to support? Do you have any idea what the impact of that would be on national security, law enforcement, disaster preparedness and recovery?

Brendan you don't get to pick and choose. What you do not perceive as a benefit today may be a life-saver tomorrow. Here's what I suggest; if you don't want to pay taxes for programs that you don't want, move to a country where there is no strong centralized government. I would suggest Somalia. You don't have to worry about socialism there. There's a nice strong Oligarchy where those with the greatest wealth rule. I think it would be right up your ally.

Amazing. I read this article and thought the usual paid bagger-bloggers were going to rip Cain to shreds for "playing the race card" and then preach the tired old early '70's KKK philosophy of "reverse racism".

What happened, baggers? I would say you kids are playing the full race card deck if I thought you were actually capable of playing with a full deck! I do pray that you righties are being paid to write your garbage because I can't imagine anyone so dumb actually being able to turn on a computer! Do you people think before you post or do you just do what you are told?

Hey old people, black people, and protestors don't you have somewhere you can go! Get off the plantation! Come over to the republican party, they will treat you with respect, they will treat you just like you are the President of the United States of America. Ha, lets blow this plantation and go where they treat you with a little respect, very little respect. Lets go where they "Rock You Like a Hermann Cain".

Cain reminds me of successful black people pre civil rights. The ones that had to way their stations in life during conversations with white people and never smoke up or defended themselves or corrected the white person do to fear of retribution and loss of station. I feel for them and I feel for Cain. It is still tough to be a successful black person. Much like its tough to be a successful women without picking your battles and allowing lots of crap to pass by without comment. I think Cain has been doing it for so long its just a very bad habit now and he doesn't know any better. I feel for him. I really do. But I don't want him as my President. Only the strong survive that office.

Forest, when you say "he really doesn't think that way" how do you know? What makes you an expert in what goes on in someone else's mind? Kind of presumptuous, don't you think?

If someone were to write, "Forest doesn't really think that way" what basis would that person have for saying such a thing. If we are to believe what you write why shouldn't we believe what he says, as well? And again, what is wrong with this assertion, why is it considered a bad thing? Sounds like something we should all emulate or strive for:

"Cain really does not identify with his race, or the class of his origins. All of his pronouncements and proposals reflect a strong identification with an aspirational upper class"

"Markets go up and they go down, folks only lost money in 2008 if they panicked and sold."

Right. Too bad if they needed the money to live on, say.

Herman Cain tried to run against George W, Bush in 2000 and Chickened out. His words not mine.

He said he figured their was no need because it was Dubya and his father had already been President.

Herman Cain is afraid of REAL challenges which is a President has to encounter, That's why his Platform is more like a Las Vegas Show, than an actual Candidate for the Highest Office in America.

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/video/herman-cain-on-palin-comment-93011/1359495/

You miss the point again norm if he is not concerned with race then why does he bring it up so often. It was his whole premise, how it was seen through his lens, he tries to make a racial correlation, not a demographic, or economic one. You see norm that is why I don't believe he don't think in terms of race, because he wrote an article with race as a unique key component of the specific subject. Actually SS works the same for everyone, same rules, same taxes, same benefits, why would it affect an Irishman any differently than a black person, do SS benefits put liberals on the plantation and republicans alike, or just black democrats. Norm he is supposed to a mathematician, not a blackamatician it's his theory pal not mine, he brought race into I didn't. Obviously I think he certainly has his own issues with race and until he stops bringing it up you have a hell of a time convincing me otherwise. You know if he does has issues, that is fine too, but you can't have it both ways, he can't write articles, and books about it, and talk in those terms, and simultaneously claim he is unconcerned about it.

Cain is lieing about Social Security.

Here is an article about Social Security.

The Boring Truth About Social Security

There was a long and mostly confused conversation about Social Security during Wednesday night’s GOP debate. But rather than get sidetracked over whether the pension program is a “monstrous lie” (Perry), “a Ponzi scheme” (Perry again), “tyranny” (yep, Perry), “broken” (Cain), or a great system that Americans are being “defrauded out of” (Romney), let’s just go to the numbers.

Over the next 75 years, Social Security’s shortfall is equal to about 0.7 percent of GDP (pdf). If we increase its revenues by that amount -- which could be accomplished by lifting the cap on payroll taxes -- or reduce its benefits by that amount or do some combination of the two, Social Security is back in the black. Here are 30 policy tweaks that could get us there.

Why does Social Security show a shortfall? As Stephen C. Goss, the system’s chief actuary, has written, Social Security projects an imbalance “because birth rates dropped from three to two children per woman.” That means there are relatively fewer young people paying for the old people. “Importantly,” Goss continues, “this shortfall is basically stable after 2035.” In other words, we only have to fix Social Security once. After we reform it to take account of modern demographics, the system is set for the foreseeable future.

And that’s...it. That’s what’s needed to fix Social Security. All this talk about it being a “monstrous lie” or “a Ponzi scheme” or “broken” is meant to create a crisis to clear the way for radical changes in Social Security. But if folks want to make radical changes to Social Security, they should just make the argument for their proposed fixes. And good luck to them. But in reality, what’s going to happen is that sometime in the next decade or so, Republicans and Democrats are going to compromise on a package that adjusts Social Security by about 0.7 percent of GDP over the next 75 years.

Cain reminds me of successful black people pre civil rights

What's that, Louisey?

Not being able to say I was old enough to know, my only reference is George Jefferson.

Oh Well. Different Strokes for Different Folks!

John A.-400474: I have expressed my admiration of you before. You obviously are a professional writer, and a person who bases expression in logical factuality. All the Zenith of quality and appreciated by many who express themselves here. Accordingly, you alluded to the wicked baseness of todays "right wing conservatism". I fully agree with your assessment, yet, I cannot understand how so many have fallen victim to such a warped and destructive ism, especially, since its sole goal is marginalization of the many by the exploitation of the support of that very same many. This is, I think, a more acute phenomenon than too many perceive. I would be interested in your views on this and will watch for your posts as I always do. Best regards

Brendan-4

If you could opt out of paying social security that is going to current retirees, then you should be forced to take care of older parents, grandparents or childless aunts and uncles that rely on social security and make our lives freer than in the Walton family days when the only way older family members were taken care of was to have generations living together.

if you are willing to do it, then I say your are an awesome son, grandson, or nephew and more power to you. Otherwise if you can't or won't pay for your own relatives, then be thankful for social security pooling fund powers and medicare even as it a bit strained and all. Imagine the average 40 to 50 year old adult child's life without it.

Kirk, your closing sentence sums up your disregard for human value, and the cause which others obey, " In fact, it appears to me that Cain has actually done more in his life to earn respect than Obama prior to running for office. Obama clearly is a great politician but give them both their due." Your statemant leads many to believe that respect is earned and not a god given right.

Good Day.

Please don't include Medicare Part D as an entitlement 'liberals' want to see continued. Programs such as SS, Medicare, Medicaid are NOT unfunded. Part D is the only one, proposed by GWBush, that is truly unfunded. If you want to know why the deficit is at record highs look to the aftermath of financial deregulation, and the costs of 2 unfunded wars. If you want to know what changes 'liberals' want, look to the American Jobs Bill, that will put many Americans back to work AND reduce the deficit by $6B.

I'm impressed with Cain's intellectual approach to the problems we face. He's right about Black men subsidizing Social Security for the benefit of others, but that's the way the Democrats designed it, and that's the way they intend to keep it, since they demonize anyone that suggests 'changes' to make it fair and sustainable. The Democrats know as well as everyone else that there needs to be changes to Social Security, but will criticize anyone actually suggesting common sense changes for purely political advantage.

I also favor a National Sales Tax of about 5%, which would reduce the Deficit by about $1.7 Trillion over 10 years.

And if they want to REALLY cut the Deficit, merely do nothing with regard to the Bush Tax Cuts. If they let them expire AND install a 5% National Sales Tax, we will cut the Deficit by more than $5 Trillion over the next 10 years - IF THE DEMOCRATS DON"T WASTE THE INCREASED REVENUES ON MORE WORTHLESS SPENDING.

Bob, I have no clue what you are saying. Respect is earned and isnt a God given right. I am not even sure what rights God gives us and what that means either. There is zero and I mean zero connection between my comments about what two men of color's life achievements are prior to becoming politicians and the value of human life. Did you smoke too many doobies this morning? Cain was a respected self made business person and Obama was a law professor and community organizer. Both paths worthy of significant respect and admiration especially in the minority community. My point was that the personal attacks on Cain are vile and shows the true colors of the progressives on here just as personal attacks on Obama are too. If you dont like Cain's politics dont vote for him but he is just as worthy and by many standards even more worthy of respect than Obama for his achievements prior to running for office. Sorry but that has nothing to do with human value

ROY

What kind of intellect is required to present a plan which raises the tax by $5000 on a middle income family that earns $50000 per year while lowering the tax on someone who makes $10,000,000 by 1.4 million? The major result of that plan would be a major recession or depression, caused by the loss of spending in our economy. Business does not succeed when people are not buying products and services. When the average earner has $5000 less per year to spend the unemployment rate would skyrocket. The wealthy would also go down the economic tubes because the stock market would crash and businesses would be bankrupt. All due to that famous "Cain intellect."

Kirk, stop the political diatribe. Respect should not be doled out, but given to anyone and everyone until they do something that morally you object to. Is that hard to understand with your political view?

Yes, personal attacks are wrong. To compare the Pres. with a business man is no basis to extend respect as you wish, but that is what you have done, and many find it in keeping with Cain's stand on those who now are unemployed "yes it is your fault, and here is why". Cain puts himself up to be a benefactor, not a leader.

Roy, is that why subsidy's to health care to the less fortunate, a large percentage being Black, have been at the forefront of Republican agenda, for so long. Would better availability and lower cost prolong the lifes of many? Stop revising history to suite your political bias.

Irrational, the poverty level at the beginning of the New Deal and Social Security was 50%, we have come along way baby!!

"Starve the Beast" with reduced spending has been proven wrong, and as the government acts so will are G.N.P., your asking for third world economy.

The "baby boomers" are a spike in recipients, the Social Security Administration has forwarded recommendations to keep it solvent. None of them are being addressed by the Republicans.

The "Black Market" was addressed in the HealthBill, with the regulation to report any inter-business transaction above $600. The Republicans screamed "no way", not more paper work, yet their is no credible means to collect that money if there is not a paper trail, accomplished by those who we entitle to collect it. Think of the amount of people now working as 1099's or sub-contractors to business, who do not claim that income, yet the amount of money not collected from the true employer for their share of Medicare, unemployment, workers compensation. I know of a few people who because of this economy and medical problems who were fired, (which can be easily done, outside the union endowment) only to be asked to come back as a sub- contractor or 1099'. Those who took the offer, went right back to what they were doing before, but now with-out insurance and the employers Medicare and S.S. payment. And how do those who work with them feel? they may be next, so work your ass off.

Bob, those wereuninteliglble posts. Political diatribe? Do you read your own posts? Your posts don't even make internal consistency. You do realize that with your definion of respect, most people would stop respecting Obama so I think you need to start over and take the rose off your glasses.

Kirk, keep your owners blinders on, and you will be well feed.

Where to start?? I'll be back later not enough time to research so many things. Yikes.

LoL

As Willy Wonka might say, "so much time, so little to do ..." ;-)

A simple place to start ight be to raise the amount you can put into your own IRA before taxes. I always wondered why it was so limited.

"so much time, so little to do ..." ;-)"

Alright, leave my pal Spanker out of this...

"You may not like Cain Molly, but he does bring new ideas and new point of view to the debate."

I'm with Smiff. I hope Cain makes the cut, and Romney does not.

Obama v. Cain. Yep- that's the one we want to see, alright.

Buzzy-Boo: Obama v. Cain. Yep- that's the one we want to see, alright.

Obama is running against Congress chief. He's even said so. The stage will be getting a little crowded at the debates.

joanna, if 95% of the people are not libs like molly how did obama win? 75% of statistics are made up half the time.

Joanna: what of Cain's new ideas do you actually support? And why? And are you sure he wasn't "joking" when he proposed them?

"Obama is running against Congress chief"

And- isn't it an incredible shame, in the overall scheme of things, that he has to?

Dennis:

A simple place to start ight be to raise the amount you can put into your own IRA before taxes. I always wondered why it was so limited.

Agreed.

And here is the IRS's response --

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/retirement/401k_contribution_limit/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

The contribution limit for employees participating in pension plans -- including 401(k)s, 403(b)s, most 457 plans and the federal government'sThrift Savings Plan will be $17,000 for tax year 2012.

That's $500 higher than the $16,500 limit this year, and marks the first increase since 2009, the IRS said. The reason? Rising inflation.

LoL

You just have to shake your head.

And he touted the strength of the stock market: “Personal retirement accounts as proposed by the president are the first step to fixing the solvency crisis and allowing more people access to economic freedom. The market has never once lost money in any 20-year period.”

Man, the market has never lost money! My 401k, IRA, Roth, 457 college plan and pension fund must be anomalies. Or maybe that 20th year I'm going to make a killing.

Buzzards: And- isn't it an incredible shame, in the overall scheme of things, that he has to?

Yeah. Harry is not pleased.

creating a program where speculators gamble with your retirement funds in the stock market is righteous.

I know that's a favored talking point of the left, but someone needs to explain to me how replacing Social Security with a private account that I control (just like I control my IRA and 401K) equates to "speculators" gambling with my money.

Cain's Plan 9-9-9

Can you explain this 9-9-9 plan to me? 9% of my income, 9% on goods? Let me understand this better. I live in a state with a sales tax of say 6%, I have to add another 9% to the 6%, to equate to 15%, after losing 9% of my income to the federal government? So, regardless of apples and oranges, I am paying 24% tax on fruit?

It seems to me that there should be statistical anaylsis on the coexistence of federal and state taxes. Although in favor of a simpler tax plan, I am not sure this really helps the middle to low class American tax payers. Currently poeple over a million are taxed at 18%, this would go down to 9%, whereas lower income workers would be raised to 9%. I understand the argument of a flat tax, but when people are working below a living wage a raise in tax is the last thing lower income families need.

Please correct me if I am wrong, unlike most posters I don't claim to know everything about everything.

Miker, somewhat correct. You would pay a 9% sales tax but if you made below a certain prescribed amount of money that 9% would be credited against the 9% federal income tax. Given that you are already paying 7.65% in payroll taxes, people at this income level would pay no more than an additional 1.45%. There hasnt been any discussion of what is exempt on the sales tax for example is the purchase of a house or cars which would dramatically increase the costs of these goods. It does raise slightly the tax on the working poor but it really hits the middle to upper middle class as their current federal income tax rates are relatively low due to the past Bush tax cuts. But yes the very wealthy continue to pay alot on an absolute dollar basis but much lower on a percentage basis. I dont like his plan but the hyperbole is much greater than the actual impact. For example, just because he replaces payroll tax revenue with this proposal doesnt mean that social security will be eliminated. I dont even get how that would be possible by any politician.

Joanna, you need to do some research and stop listening to your favorite politician. Social Security is solvent for many more years to come. The real argument is whether to privatize part or all or to add to the current system. The rhetoric has nothing to do with solvency. But like most who post here, you never do any real research. The non-partisan CBO has in no way projected the collapse of SSI, only those who want to capitalize it are saying it won't last. Here is part of a study done by the CBO...............

As Boomers begin to retire, the huge group of people putting money into the system will begin taking it out of the system, which then will be funded by a generation of workers—the so-called Gen X—whose numbers are some 15 million fewer. The surplus of money paid into the system by Boomers will allow it to run into the late 2030s, even though it will begin paying out more than it takes in by 2017.

“We won’t have a crisis,” says Michael Astrue, commissioner of the Social Security Administration. “2037 is a long way off and there is no reason to panic, but this is a serious issue we need to resolve. Younger people tend to overreact.”

Not only do younger people over react but so do those of you who are not informed. Should you ever take the time to do real research and stop listening to both sides of the aisle, you will see this is only a political issue. Mr. Cain needs to take his foot out of his mouth and prove he can deliver jobs not useless rhetoric, this goes for both parties and the current administration. If we don't do away with NAFTA and if we don't regulate business, we won't have to worry over SSI or anything else, we'll be bankrupt. It all comes down to jobs and unless you've been on vacationto Mars, neither side has any clue how to get the economy on track and create jobs. It is amazing to me that those on the right find everything immoral or socialist that they had a hand in starting to begin with. No one party began all our social programs. And no one party cut regulations. Had we done what Bush wanted, when wall street had it's collapse, SSI would have really taken a hit. So no, it doesn't need to privatize. U.S. Treasury Bonds have worked just fine as long as Congress keeps it's greedy fingers out of the mix.

Cain .. was not always a stupid as he now appears .. he did get to be a millionaire .. affirmative action was his biggest helper on the ladder of success

Bill
"...explain to me how replacing Social Security with a private account that I control (just like I control my IRA and 401K) equates to "speculators" gambling with my money."

So nobody lost any money in the stock market in 2008? Your memory is awfully short.

The fix to make Social Security and Medicare solvent for the foreseeable future - Soylent Green.

So nobody lost any money in the stock market in 2008?

Markets go up and they go down, folks only lost money in 2008 if they panicked and sold. Investing is for the long term, so let me refresh YOUR short memory: in 1981 when Reagan was inaugurated, the Dow stood at about 950. Today it's well over 11,000 -- despite the sometimes wrenching ups and downs in between. Dare I point out, the return from your Social Security "investment" doesn't even come close to that performance.

He is only running against Congress Leona to make it a fair fight, if he ran against any single republican candidate he may not have to break a sweat. I thought I seen a few republican candidates sweating at the debate last night, but when I looked real close I noticed it was not sweat, those were tears.

You can see the fear in the eyes of the Libs when someone like Cain begins to make sense with the 95% of the People the Libs like Molly here are not a part of.

I'm curious which polls you're looking at. In fact, I'm curious what planet you live on. You state 95% of the People believe Cain makes sense yet 77% don't want Social Security screwed with. Have you taken the Glen Beck pill, or is it the medication you've forgotten to take?

Herman Cain has been playing with the American people's minds bringing his E game.

Where's his A game? He doesn't have one.

Herman Cain changes his rhetoric more than a Chameleon.

I think Cain's real purpose is to help Obama get re-elected....That's his A game and he's good because, it's working!

I think Cain's real purpose is to help Obama get re-elected

Grasshopper, you may leave the Temple!

It's Sorta kinda like Ms Palin (wink wink), dontcha know?

bizarre...wouldn't the smarter solution to retirement "inequality" be to raise the life expectancy of Black men?

Cain has a point on this one, but there are other solutions rather than eliminating social security altogether. Does he really think the african american population, who are seeing the highest numbers in unemployment, and the lowest numbers in wages, can sock money away for retirement? Does he really think they don't need to just because their life expectancy isn't as high as a white woman's is? That is just ridiculous.

don't think this revelation will hurt Cain with Republicans... and might just pull over some African-American support.

Yeah, but it kills him in the general.

It's an interesting line of argument - is any age-based retirement system discriminatory against a sub-group that doesn't live as long?

Sure. By the way, that also makes the Social Security system biased against white men as opposed to white women.

Any insurance policy is biased against those who never file claims. Does this mean if you're healthy, you don't buy health insurance or long-term disability insurance because it's biased in favor of people who file more claims or have serious illnesses?

terriels - if you're unemployed, you aren't putting anything into Social Security, either.

Remember, your benefits are based on some calculation of what you put in to the system. And since the SSA has been mailing out those annual benefits notices, I would think this is a point everyone out of work knows well. The retirement benefits in those notices are based on projections of working at salaries that include some level of increase every year. On your first year without income, you'd get one of those notices that has a significantly reduced benefits projection.

Anna Molly - I think we're talking to different purposes here. You're trying to argue with Cain on the merits of his logic, and the practicality of actually implementing anything on that logic. I'm merely looking at the question of whether this hurts him in the nomination race.

@ Paul --

I know. I was snickering when I wrote that.

I hope it helps him.

Reynaldo:

ANNA------ Why don't you do what I did, in 1966 I started putting the same amount into IRA's that I put into Social security.

Well, I'm just a little younger than you are, Reynaldo, but how do you know I didn't?

Except the IRA didn't exist in 1966, did it?

ERISA was not enacted until 1974, and IRAs were created in the early 1980s.

So, whatever you were doing then, sounds more like plain, old-fashioned, after-tax savings accounts and CDs to me. Except they were paying a lot more interest in those days than they do today.

Wall Street saw to that, so that the only way you can possibly make decent returns anymore is to be in the market. And who do you think benefits from that?

I heard the other day that the average hit in fees to an IRA over the lifetime of the account is something like 28 percent.

Sort of eats up those taxes you're not paying on the money, doesn't it?

And then when you take it out, you get to pay the taxes again.

Think about it, Reynaldo.

Fourth leading cause of death for African-American males of all ages = homicide.
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2006/MalesByRace2006.pdf
Leading cause of death for African-American males between ages of 15 and 34 BY FAR is homicide. http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2006/BlackMales2006.pdf

Maybe we ought to concentrate more on helping African-American males live longer rather than pitting them against White females who, according to Cain, either live too long or take too many benefits.

So when liberals talk about the disparities in income and wealth between the rich and poor, conservatives call that "inciting class warfare." Is Cain then "inciting race warfare" by talking about longevity-related benefit disparities between ethnic groups? Just wanting to know.....

DrDr:

Maybe we ought to concentrate more on helping African-American males live longer rather than pitting them against White females who, according to Cain, either live too long or take too many benefits.

And you'd think Cain would care about that, wouldn't you?

But instead, he just wants to take away whatever small bit of security they might have.

Apparently, Cain's solution to injustice for some is insecurity for all.

You know the more I see and read about this guy the more I don't want him in office!

Imagine there's no Pizza...

It's Easy If You Try!!

Well said, Monetfan;

Herman Cain at a minimum may well be on the VP shortlist, he would bring a lot to the ticket.

Monetfan,

You make a good point.

Yes, we ignore any politician offering simple solutions to complex isues at our peril. If we didn't learn that with Reagan, we certainly need to now. We know that there is no trickle down, except for stuff we put in the sewer. We knew that in 1980, yet we allowed Reagan to being the long decline of America. We ignore Cain and we may get Reagan III.

I'm happy that Cain is a rags to riches story, except that unlike someone like Warren Buffet, once he got his riches, he started thinking rich. So now he wants to take even more from the "little people" and give it to people like the group he is now part of. This is how class wars start.

Cain's tax plan would raise taxes on 84% of Americans, the poorest of course.

Then he wants to kill social security and medi-care.

Of course get rid of minimum wage as it hinders the job creators.

If you lost your house or job or both due to the crash and resulting economy just blame yourself.

Yes Cain a true American hates all of us but the 1%.

For the life of me I just can not figure out what it is about old people not living in poverty that just drives the republicans crazy. The republicans continually wanting to kill social security and get those old people out on the streets suffering where they belong.

A bigger concern, in my opinion, would be Mitt Romney as the GOP nominee. Perry and Bachmann are so far right that they would never get a moderate Democrat to vote for them. Romney seems to be center-right. (almost like a Schwarzenegger) Cain is just too much of a unknown and his biggest idea (9-9-9) would be devastating to middle and low-income workers. This will become common knowledge between now and election day so you can pretty much count out many cross-party votes.

The CEO of the 8th ranked Pizza Company running the #1 nation in the world. Makes me wish Steve Jobs had run....

@Dennis

Like being a community organizer in a suburb of chicago running the #1 nation in the world is better?

Seriously Lol'd

Monet - thanks for cutting and pasting all that.

This type of thing has been the point I've tried to make for a while. Poking at 9-9-9 probably isn't going to hurt Cain - and actually could help him by continuing conversation to the effect that this non-politician (as opposed to the rest of the Republican field) finally came up with an idea worth talking about. It has flaws, but at least it's something new.

And people can talk about it because it is so simple. Great tie in back to Reagan - I hadn't thought of that. How many over-the-fence neighbor conversations can you see taking place about Glass-Steagall? Yeah, if Republicans really are looking for Ronald Reagan this time, Cain is about the closest thing they've got. Optimistic, willful, folksy. Watch out for this guy (assuming he ever gets around to registering for primaries).

I think Herman shot himself in the foot this time. I think this can hurt him.

Think of it this way. Which Republican candidate is driving Democrats the most nuts right now? And I don't mean the way Bachmann and Palin drives people nuts. But which candidate who can string coherent sentences together is really getting under the skin of Democrats?

You know Republicans will consider that a selling point.

Sorry, I have to take the other side on this. After an incompetent Texas governor, and an inexperienced two year senator, I want the most experienced politician. It's not the time for another neophyte.

Let's not forget the GOP 'audience' at the 'debate' and FOX set group of '20-25 GOP VOTERS' are cheering Mr. Cain for vilifying those without work after their party's masters have shipped our entire job based economy overseas.

Telling the unemployed to 'Blame themselves' is equivilent to telling someone in front of a firing squad that if they die it is their own fault for not dodging the bullets.

Herman Cain is just another elephant who wants to trample further the working/middle class. Then he can blame them for being on the other side of the street.

@Cain - solution to the problem: Raise the cap on those paying into Social Security. Takes care of all problems. Then people don't have to retire later. No matter how much money you make - and believe me, the rich are not turning down their SS checks - you cap out at about $116K per year. So if you're making $50K, you are paying in all year. If you're making a million, you get to quit paying after the $116K (somewhere thereabouts).

Social Security is an extremely successful program. That's why the Repubs hate it. Because it actually gives something back to those they consider their drones, who actually do work, and who otherwise would have nothing. The Repubs would find some way to get all that money that went into SS by putting it into the 401Ks, by paying less dividends, by putting it into bank savings accounts where the interest is so miniscule that you cannot make money off your savings, and when the stock market crashes again, which it will do because of no regulation, there goes your hard earned retirement, now in the pockets of those "investors" that Romney wants to foreclose on your underwater mortgage loans from the last crash of wall street and the banks and stock market. Therefore assuring that the rich just get richer and richer while the middle class has to work twice as hard and twice as many jobs just to keep their heads above water, and basically would never be able to retire.

The Republicans are a joke. Someone should actually make them prove their arguments. And this either/or crap needs to be taken out of the conversation. There more than one way to skin a Republican, make them answer the questions.

You may be correct about his appeal. But I would like to know from any candidate who is proposing the repeal of Social Security what happens to those of us who have been paying in for over 40 years - Do we just get wiped out? I do not believe it is fair to ask me to work until I drop because he wants to get rid of a program I paid in to for over 40 years. By the way I do have a 401k and an annuity but that would barely be enough to live on. Younger people who think they should be able to opt out would have time to save - older people who have contributed for many years would not. Excuse me for not starting my own business and theoretically making millions (most people who do do not make that much and often fail entirely.) I thought working hard, paying my taxes (including social security) and saving money when I could was enough. If the median income in the US is between $30,000 - $45,000, how much do you expect people to save? By the way I do not have cable, have no debt and have always lived within my means. The percentage of Americans who actually save money is miniscule. Do you really think if you do away with Social Security, young people will begin saving diligently? Right. Then what will you do when those same people are too old, or too unhealthy to work anymore? Throw them out on the streets.

(monetfan) Frank Luntz first asked how many would consider voting for Cain. I'd say about 90% of the hands went up. Luntz seemed stunned and asked for explanations as to why they like Cain. People said things like real deal, man with a plan, smart CEO

* * *

Yes they did ! ! ! Cain is smart, unpretentious, comes across as real and talks TO the people, and not from a teleprompter.

P.S. Everyone freaks out about the 9-9-9. As many have pointed out, this is a STARTING POINT. If it generates dialog, then good. If it causes people to look at plugging loopholes, then good. If the overall rates can be lower with less tax cheating, then good. Give Cain some credit here.

Just wait for the general election, MSNBC and First Read will be Romney-Slander Central.

I don't understand this statement, why would we bother with Romney, he will be a no issue after Nov. 2012. Perhaps President Obama will offer him a job as a US ambasador for Guam position!

Rev Wright, blah blah Bill Ayers, blah blah Rizzo house deal, blah blah, voted present blah blah, wife not proud to be American blah, blah, Marxist professors, blah blah, birth certifcate, blah blah, really muslim, blah, blah, you're likeable enough Hillary, blah, blah, can I get you a cushion?blah blah blah blah blah.

Robert1960,

Just what makes you think that Guam wants Romney? Romney does have enough flip flops to enjoy our beautiful beaches, but I was born there and I'm insulted that you'd consider sending your village idiots to our island. Try Alcatraz.

MkeMike

sorry Mike, he has to go someplace.. alcatraz, tazmania, who cares as long as he goes

Al Sharpton said it best. He said he would not vote for Cain even if Cain were running against a white guy.

So much for the republican theory that blacks voted for President Obama just because he was black. Just like they thought that all women would go rushing to vote for Palin just because she was a woman.

Obama 2012 for what's best for our country.

That was the first time I've ever heard Sharpton say anything that I agreed with! And I was really glad to hear him say it!

Reynaldo Aguirre,

Now that I've seen the GOP challengers, you'd better start looking for an igneous rock to nominate.

Reynaldo - Is the igneous rock in your skull the source of your banter.

,you'd better start looking for an igneous rock to nominate.

Reynaldo - Is the igneous rock in your skull the source of your banter?

Magmanificient!

jingo - I like your comment better!

So you blame yourself for having to be a jobseeker?

I will be eligible for SS in six years. I hope Cain gets elected and dismantle the program before I get there. Our children deserve better.

jobseeker,

have another... i am of the generation of your "children". I cannot see how being a greedy little @#$% is "better" for us.

JobSeeker - No one is forcing you to take SS. Why not give it to your children, grandchildren or neighbors children. That will allow you to shed your guilt. Hope that suggestion helps.

amused

I love your idea! Turn the tables on 'em. Hahahahaha!!

While Cain is not a favorite of mine based on the Tax increase he proposes, The Democrates had better not underestimate him as a person in a note above mentioned. He stands his groung and seldon acknowledges he is or was wrong!

They ride horses in most of Chile. Is that your vision for our future?

Yes because a home and a government are the exact same when it comes to economics.

Much of Herman's success has been due to his willingness to play to the powers that be...to get along, it pays to go along. Listening to an interview with him on his book; he explained that he was raised not to be a "trouble maker." Problem is that explanation was part of his reasoning on why he didn't take part in the Civil Rights Movement, in the 1960's.

I can understand that...and do not begrudge him his right to live his life as he sees fit...but I may also conclude he is not the person I'd want to elect to be President at the moment.

Why should I fund your retirement when I have my own retirement to worry about?

That 10% or 15% coming from my paycheck would go a long way to securing my own retirement. The true "Me" generation are the people born in the 30's to the 70's. Always voting in politicians to increase benefits while screwing the youngest generation with unbelivable debt and no retirement.

I hope you enjoy your social security seniors, certainly is nice knowing you will be comfortable while continuing to steal from the current generation.

Let me opt out and have the seniors worry about themselves, its thier problem regardless for not effectively planning.

Your comment is very insightful stone6. I also feel he has a right to live the way he chooses, just as any person on this planet should. However some of the views and beliefs he holds I do not think would sit very well with a majority of American citizens including myself. The 9-9-9 tax, apart from being ripped straight from simcity 4, would only benefit the rich and super rich while the poor and middle class would suffer. Yet he either doesn't see this or simply doesn't care. I would be curious to know which it is.

I understand where you are coming from Brendan and I'm not trying to justify the current system. I only mean the concept of Social Security itself is not immoral, at least in my opinion. There are plenty of things that can be done to improve the way it's funded. I understand being frustrated about paying into a program that won't benefit you until you are in your sixties (or become disabled) and may not even be around when you reach retirement age. And I'm sure there is a reasonable solution somewhere for this. But to abolish Social Security altogether I believe is not the answer. Imagine working your ass off the majority of your life only to be forced to retire with no more income whatsoever. You would have no choice but to find a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere. One could always stay with family I suppose but this wouldn't be an option for everyone. Instead of devising ways to kill people or invade foreign countries our government should be trying to find reasonable solutions to some of our financial issues.

Jwright - we agree.

brendan - ah...a Ron Paul supporter, eh? Libertarian? Forty percent of those receiving social security have it as their sole source of income. More than 60% have it as their primary source.

I am relatively sure that social security IS part of most people's planning for retirement...particularly those who have other income sources.

The social security problems are real...but relatively easily fixed through temporary adjustments in retirement age, benefit adjustment, removal of the payroll tax caps, and possibily means testing. The two major problems are the Congressional "raiding" of social security funds to use as general revenue and the population blip of an unusual amount of older people, due to the baby-boomers, which will correct over time.

I'd suggest that any candidate who either recommends doing away with social security or privatizing it will lose. End of story.

Good luck with your additional private retirement investments.

That 10% or 15% coming from my paycheck would go a long way to securing my own retirement. The true "Me" generation are the people born in the 30's to the 70's.

Indeed - how horrible it is, helping folks who worked all their lives survive their final years, because - shame on them! - they didn't have 401(k)s, IRA's or other investment instruments available to them. I mean, obviously, that's their fault - right?

Never mind that one of the biggest take-away lessons from the Great Depression was not to trust the bank(s), not to mention anyone who offered to "help" with your money - something we could all use a re-education on.

They already pay for social security via payroll tax deductions, which I believe are around 6.2%, with the employers matching that at 6.2%. As I understand it that goes away and is replaced by the 9-9-9 plan.

Also, the medicare payroll tax presumably goes away...2.9% if you are self-employed; split based on your wages, if not.

I'll repeat...the candidate that messes around with either social security or medicare will lose...big.

To all the people who don't want to pay into social security to shore up little old ladies. Please take mother and grandmother out of the system and take care of all their financial needs yourself. You will probably have to have them live with you, you will probably go into a huge amount of debt too but that is not our problem, that is what charities are for.

The next time they tell you your money goes to take care of babyboomers, remember that you probably have a babyboomer or two in your own family.

If my parents didn't have social security, I would be resposible for everything, and I would not be able to live the way I do now. I help out with extra grocery money and help for extras, I can't handle the rest.

Look how many people voted for Obama simply because he was black. At least with Cain, people are judging him on the issues.

they are judging Cain on his lack of a grip on the issues...

People voted for Obama because of his platform, never did he play the race card.

Job Seeker: Do have a number? How many people voted for President Obama because he is black? I realize that a huge percentage of African Americans voted for him, but they generally vote for the Democratic candidate.

I would have a tough time voting for someone who taunts foreign leaders and states that Muslims must take a loyalty or religious test in order to be a member of his cabinet or administration. That is why I could not vote for him, not because he is African American.

@Scoot you must be incredibly naive. I listen to a major black radio station in my area and I can't count the number of times I have heard black listeners call in and say they voted for the President because he is black. It had nothing to do with his platform. During political discussion they also think he should be cut some slack since he is a first time President. Now having said that I do not believe all black voters voted for him purely on race but to say none did is naive. I say race should have absolutely nothing to do with it and platform and issues everything.

reynaldo, youre the perfect example of partisan idiocy and willful ignorance. you are a disgrace to this country.

I'm a left leaning indy, ALWAYS had a job since the age of 15 and NEVER collected UE of SS benifits of any kind. I'm paying into SS and I expect it to be there when I retire. You and your corrupt ilk are ruining the greatness of this country. If you dont like it please MOVE!

Cain, like so many politician is clever, but without values. He makes this very obvious. His major problem is that he thinks most people are as selfcentered as he is as.

The America people are being overlooked and discounted to the point that they are fed up. Most of these politicians are in for a rough future.

I am a black male and I do not agree with Mr. Cain. His ideas would not work and are unpopular that he would have to force people to do something they don't want to do. Isn't that was the GOP has been accusing President Obama of doing....as Mr. Perry said in the debate this week. The height of Hypocrisy.

Actually, its the other way around, its about a black racist hating white men. OMG, did somebody just accuse a blackman of being a racist, OMG.

Yep, Obama took care of the unions (and left out the blacks) and the liberals voted for him. Cain is taking care of businesses and the conservatives vote for him. That's how the two party system works.

Nope, it isn't. It's about people who have learned from history. Simple solutions do not solve complex problems. The biggest problem we have with the economy is that the middle class has no money to spend because middle class jobs have gone away. And this whack job wants to increase taxes on the middle and lower middle classes. So the middle class will have even LESS money. Reagan began the demise of the middle class with his simple solutions (tax the rich less, and the rich will create jobs, which as we have seen is just BS), and Cain would just pick up the GW Bush baton and do some more damage. And saying Social Security is "immoral" makes lots of points for the Tea Set, but that's about it. Now where's the racism?

White liberals don't hate the same way the white hyper conservatives do. We hate equally, regardless of color, if the policy stinks.

Actually it's about the voters learning more about a particular candidate and realizing that he's not all that he's cracked up to be. His 999 plan would raise taxes on most Americans, expect the rich of course. And now, he wants to get rid of Social Security. The voters will decide and it won't be pretty...

Now go collect your paycheck, Job. That is ridiculous. Cain is not the friend of anyone but rich people. He didn't get where he is with no help from anyone or any program, and he is a nasty person to make the nasty and inaccurate comments he has made about many people.

Warren: I agree with your comments about the middle class. I might add that some from both sides have demonized the poor and demonized the rich, and pit middle-class worker against middle-class worker.

ram,

Like most liberals, you are clueless. Cain grew up in Memphis, TN, the son of a janitor and a cleaning lady. He made it from nothing to the top. I guess you wouldn't understand what that is like.

The "top" of what? Hypocrisy mountain? He sold his "soul" to the Koch brothers. He's not a success story; he's a sellout.

Paul,

Masters in Compter Science. CEO. Presidential candidate. This Koch Brother stuff is soooo leftist. Between that and teabaggers, that's about half their vocabulary.

terriels,

That is the point I was trying to make. When conservatives beat down Obama for his policies, your ilk call us racists. When you criticize Cain, it's because of the issues. LOL

No one called anyone racist for being against President Obama's policies. It was the slurs and constant lies that make republican tea party look racist.

There is nothing to like about Cain. He wants to increase taxes on the poorest 84% in American all the while cutting taxes on the wealthest by millions of dollars. He wants to kill social security and medi-care. He even wants to get rid of the minimum wage laws for the job creators, republican speak for the richest in America.

Your skin color is only .02% of our genetic material. Knowing that I judge people on more than skin color. Me being against the American hating Cain and fighting to keep social security is hardly being racist.

Cain stands for the 1% and that alone is plenty of reason to be against him.

Jobseeker said "This is about white liberals hating a black man. Racism straight up."

These teabaggers are now trying to say the left doesn't like Cain because he is black. That's very amusing. You know, Jobseeker, Mr Obama got a majority of votes cast in 2008. How do explain that one? We wanted to look "cool" by voting for a black man, eh? No, I voted for him because I just couldn't stomach McCain/Palin. Oh ya, and I'm a democrat, because I like people.

I think Mr Cain is rude, poorly-informed, and condescending. He is part of the 1% of this nation and would like nothing better than to pad his coffers with more wealth.

Yes it will OBAMA 2012!

I don't think it is a matter of intelligence for many, but the idea that people tend to believe whatever they are told even if it makes no sense or history shows the opposite. I think it is partly that there is just so much information and it is fine to lie now in public apparently.

Exactly, pov- Cain's assertions that SS is immoral are ridiculous. I suppose the world that existed before Social Security was better?- Where people worked their entire lives until too feeble to work any longer, only to have no means of supporting themselves in their declining years? SS was born out of a a need to do something to solve the problem of millions of elderly people who became poverty stricken once they could no longer earn a paycheck. Social Security isn't the problem- the problem is Congress, who have dipped into the fund and used it for things it was never intended for.

50 years ago, my parent's generation would have labelled a person like Herman Cain a "Crackpot" and dismissed him out of hand. Now, we legitimize such quackery by actually allowing them into the limelight to spread their half-baked ideas to the world.

No, he expects to do away with minimum wage, so the poor can work really hard for a pittance, and make the rich richer, since they don't have to pay that outrageously high minimum wage any longer. Then the poor, after working their entire lives to make the rich comfortable, can live on the streets. After all, its their own fault they aren't rich too!

The Russian Plutocracy is flourishing. That's all these "capitalists" care about. If you're not rich, it is your own fault for not being willing to take advantage of slave labor all around the globe.

It is for some...based on their oil exports.

Unlike the current President who has the poor vote wrapped up, he wants more poor people.

very contrary to our history. Pres. Roosevelt won his terms with the highest % of the electorate. Back in the 30's, no less than 50% of the population were considered in poverty. After Roosevelt started the New Deal and Social Security, his popularity increased. As did the incomes of a major portion of our populace. So stop the revisionist theory, it holds no water. Thanks.

Take away the oil from Saudi Arabia and what do they have? Whatever gets you through the night...Russia is doing pretty well after their late eighties default. Latvia is now an independent country; as is Slovakia.

So you all are saying, if we get a President that allows us to drill for our own oil our economy will improve?

The world is rapidly taking the oil away from The House of SAUD, and replacing it with American dollars, a fiat currency. They have bought BBillions of Treasury bonds with those dollars. Kings and Plutocrats should not be the only beneficiaries of any country's natural and mineral resources.

Agreed. But, that may be changing.

Alan Dean Foster:

Russia has a booming economy? Take away the sales of oil and natural gas and there's near nothing. Latvia? All kinds of problems. Slovakia? Cain knows about as much about the rest of the world as Palin.

Yes it has for over the pass 8-10 years. It has been an emerging economy from some time. Wake up and smell the tea. Russia is the planet's largest country and has abundant natural resources.

It has a flat 13% income tax. Some cities and Oblasts (States) have additional local taxes. Plus, they have a better eduction system than the USA.

It seems Herman knows more about the world than you do....

txrbt,

Is it Cain playing the race card or OTHERS ACCUSING HIM of doing so? Here's a funny quote for you by Yogi Berra: "all the stuff I said, no, I didn't say that".

While in Houston on several occasions recently, the hotel we stayed at held several functions for Oil Company Execs. I must say, I was impressed that even the High End Call Girls which filed into valet to, um, escort these 'Gentlemen' drove nicer high end vehicles than most of us would dream of purchasing.

Kind of like those Hotties! And they weren't there for their admiration of Corporate Skills.

Business is good for Big Oil USA! Not to mention the Big Trickle Down the girls receive!! I didn't see any drugs besides lots of alcohol though...

We say Cain is immoral !!

.

1776,

You also say Romney was born in Kenya and is Muslim. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha