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Subscribe to RSSThe next phase of the GOP race: defining Romney… Get on the bus, Gus: Obama embarks on three-day bus tour through NC and VA… The Cain scrutiny cometh… Making sense of the GOP calendar: The Walking Dead (Month of February)… Romney and Paul are in NV in advance of tomorrow’s Vegas debate… Bachmann and Cain stump in AZ… And Huntsman files his candidacy papers in NH.
*** Defining Romney: We’re about to enter the next phase of the Republican presidential race, which could ultimately decide who wins the GOP nomination (and maybe the presidency, too): defining Mitt Romney. During this phase, his Republican rivals will begin to question his conservative bona fides. (When will we see the first anti-Romney TV ad?) And Team Obama will begin to portray him as a creature of Wall Street; in fact, Herman Cain on “Meet the Press” yesterday used a line you’ll probably see the Obama folks borrow if Romney becomes the nominee: “[Romney] has been more of a Wall Street executive; I have been more of a Main Street executive.” As we discovered in our recent NBC/WSJ poll, Republicans like Romney, but his GOP support is an inch deep (with a 16% VERY positive rating, versus 28% for Cain).
*** And redefining him: Romney himself has slowly and steadily been trying to redefine himself as a private-sector businessman. Notice how often he uses the phrase “private sector.” And given the appeal Herman Cain has with many in the Republican Party -- simply because of his business experience -- we get why Romney’s doing this. But now, it’s the next level of definition that will decide the direction of this race. Romney still has work to do, but so do his opponents. And speaking of Romney’s opponents, don’t miss David Axelrod’s not-so-subtle attempt to help Romney’s primary opponents over the weekend with his comments on ABC making the case Romney’s a flip-flopper, something Team Obama thought would already be a big part of this campaign and hasn’t been. It’s all part of Team Obama’s hope that Romney has to fight harder for his nomination than he has so far.
AP
President Obama at Asheville Regional Airport in Asheville, N.C., Monday, Oct. 17, 2011.
*** Get on the bus, Gus: President Obama kicks off his three-day bus tour that takes him through North Carolina and Virginia. He begins with remarks in the Asheville area at 10:50 am ET, and then he gives a speech in Miller’s Creek at 5:00 pm. And then he’ll be in Virginia on Tuesday and Wednesday. How important are these two New South states to Obama’s electoral math? Consider this: He could lose Florida, Indiana, New Hampshire, and Ohio (states he currently is losing in many polls) -- but still easily surpass 270 electoral votes by winning EITHER North Carolina OR Virginia. Or he could also lose Pennsylvania and still get 270-plus by winning BOTH of those New South states. The Karl Rove-backed group American Crossroads will be airing this TV ad in both North Carolina and Virginia during the president’s bus tour. As we’ve noted before -- and will note plenty of times for next few months -- the Obama playbook for 2012 is about finding as many paths to 270 that do not include Ohio (or to a lesser extent) Florida.
*** The scrutiny cometh: Announcer: “Herman Cain, you just shot up in the national polls. What are you going to do next?” Answer: “I’m going to Disney World -- er, ‘Meet the Press.’” And on “Meet” yesterday, Cain received plenty of tough questions and scrutiny. The New York Times' take: “Herman Cain found out how tricky being in the national spotlight is on Sunday as he was pushed to admit that his signature economic plan, 9-9-9, would result in increased taxes for some people. The Republican presidential candidate also sought to back away from fiery comments he had made just hours earlier, saying he was only joking about killing people trying to cross the border from Mexico with an electrified fence... Beyond that, Mr. Cain acknowledged that he was unfamiliar with the neoconservative movement, and was not exactly sure what the word ‘neoconservative’ meant.”
*** Big bucks, big bucks, no whammy: But also on “Meet the Press,” Cain said that he had raised $2 million in the first two weeks of October. If true, that’s a significant amount of money he’s bringing in….
*** The Walking Dead (Month of February): The month of February in 2008 ultimately decided the Democratic nomination, with Barack Obama winning more delegates on Super Tuesday (Feb. 5) than Hillary Clinton, and with him running up the score on Chesapeake Tuesday (DC, MD, and VA) and the next week (HI and WI). But this time around, February is shaping up to be a dead month, which would allow the campaigns to regroup after the initial contests. Consider: Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and Florida will all go in January (and maybe December, too). Then you have only a few minor contests (Maine caucuses beginning Feb. 4, Colorado and Minnesota caucuses on Feb. 7) before you get to the Arizona and Michigan primaries on Feb. 28. And then comes Super Tuesday on March 6 (Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Virginia).
*** Hey, big spender: The Times front-pages how Obama is using his financial advantage (given that he isn’t facing a credible primary challenge). “Since the beginning of the year, Mr. Obama and the Democratic National Committee, for which the president is helping raise money to finance his party’s grass-roots efforts, have spent close to $87 million in operating costs... That amount is about as much as all the current Republican candidates together have raised so far in this campaign." More: "The president is already paying staff employees in at least 38 states, including Wisconsin, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Mexico and North Carolina. His Chicago campaign headquarters hums with more than 200 paid aides. And Mr. Obama has spent millions of dollars investing in social media and information technology."
*** The 3rd quarter numbers: By the way, here are the official 3rd quarter numbers (from July 1 through Sept. 30):
-- Obama: $42 million raised; $61.4 million cash on hand, $1.7 million debt
-- Perry: $17.2 million, $15.1 coh
-- Romney: $14.2 million, $14.7 coh
-- Paul: $8.3 million, $3.7 coh
-- Bachmann: $3.9 million, $1.3 coh (Bachmann says with second committee - michelebachmann.com, she's at $4.1 million raised)
-- Cain: $2.8 million, $1.3 coh
-- Huntsman: $2.3 million ($4.5 million total receipts, including $2.2 million loan to self; $3.1 million debt, $327,614 coh)
-- Gingrich: $800,000 ($1.2 million debt); $353,000 coh
-- Santorum: $704,000, $190,000 coh
-- McCotter: $513,000, $1,500 coh, $105,000 debt
-- Johnson: $236,000, $11,000 coh
*** On the 2012 trail: In advance of tomorrow’s GOP debate in Las Vegas, Romney opens his Nevada campaign headquarters there… Paul’s also in Vegas, where he holds a press conference and fundraiser… Bachmann participates in a border-security roundtable in Phoenix, AZ and later holds a tele-town hall with Donald Trump… Cain’s also in Phoenix, meeting with Sheriff Joe Arpaio… And Huntsman files his candidacy papers in New Hampshire.
*** Monday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up: NBC's Kristen Welker live from North Carolina as the president kicks off his bus trip… Congressional Progressive Caucus Co-chair Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) on the economy, the super committee, and the Occupy Wall Street movement… NBC's Mara Schiavocampo with the latest on the protests in New York… Huffington Post's Jon Ward on Romney and the Tea Party… one of us (!!!) on why February could feel like the longest month of the primary season… And more on 2012 and the president's jobs plan pitch with National Journal's Major Garrett, USA Today's Susan Page, and former Rep. Artur Davis (D-AL).
*** Monday’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” line-up: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell interviews the Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza, Bloomberg’s Jeanne Cummings and the Chicago Tribune’s Melanie Mason, CNBC’s Ron Insana, and NBC’s Kristen Welker (on Obama’s bus tour).
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 22 days
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KOCH-CAIN Connections
Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation's capital. But Cain's economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.
Cain's campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity, or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending. Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his "9-9-9" plan to rewrite the nation's tax code. And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans.
The once little-known businessman's political activities are getting fresh scrutiny these days since he soared to the top of some national polls.
His links to the Koch brothers could undercut his outsider, non-political image among people who detest politics as usual and candidates connected with the party machine.
Spencer Platt/Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain... View Full Size
Spencer Platt/Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain exits Trump Towers to speak with the media before a scheduled appearance with real estate mogul Donald Trump, Oct. 3, 2011 in New York City.
AFP tapped Cain as the public face of its "Prosperity Expansion Project," and he traveled the country in 2005 and 2006 speaking to activists who were starting state-based AFP chapters from Wisconsin to Virginia. Through his AFP work he met Mark Block, a longtime Wisconsin Republican operative hired to lead that state's AFP chapter in 2005 as he rebounded from an earlier campaign scandal that derailed his career.
Block and Cain sometimes traveled together as they built up AFP: Cain was the charismatic speaker preaching the ills of big government; Block was the operative helping with nuts and bolts.
When President Barack Obama's election helped spawn the tea party, Cain was positioned to take advantage. He became a draw at growing AFP-backed rallies, impressing activists with a mix of humor and hard-hitting rhetoric against Obama's stimulus, health care and budget policies.
Block is now Cain's campaign manager. Other aides who had done AFP work were also brought on board.
Cain's spokeswoman Ellen Carmichael, who recently left the campaign, was an AFP coordinator in Louisiana. His campaign's outside law firm is representing AFP in a case challenging Wisconsin campaign finance regulations. At least six other current and former paid employees and consultants for Cain's campaign have worked for AFP in various capacities.
And Cain has credited Rich Lowrie, a Cleveland businessman who served on AFP's board of advisors from 2005 to 2008, with being a key economic adviser and with helping to develop his plan to cut the corporate tax rate to 9 percent, impose a national sales tax of 9 percent and set a flat income tax rate of 9 percent
"He's got a national network now that perhaps he wouldn't have had 15 or 20 years ago because of his work with AFP," said Republican Party of Wisconsin Vice Chair Brian Schimming, who has introduced Cain at events in Wisconsin. "For a presidential candidate, that's obviously helpful to have."
He said Cain was smart to hire Block.
Cain's recent victories in straw polls in Florida and Minnesota highlight the importance of organizing supporters and Block, who has a deep network in the tea party, "gets that side of it," Schimming said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/extensive-ties-powerful-koch-group-boost-cain-14746710#.TptQaetn-fc.email
The Koch Bros. are busy boys and have been for a number of years, it would appear that the ‘Outsider’ is an Insider after all or maybe he is just a puppet. He doesn’t know much about the details of his 999 plan, and by his own admission, said he would have advisers to tell him what to do in the area of foreign policy. As Herman does not appear to be involved in a day to day campaign, are the Koch Bros. surrogates running his campaign? Or preparing to move into the White House One of those things, that make you go Hmmmm.
Unsettled Times:
On October 3, 2011 I first commented on Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protesters. With the advances of the internet the movement has now become worldwide. There are simply too many marches and demonstrations to list them all. It is not surprising that the austerity movement in European countries like Greece, Italy, France and England have found common ground with the OWS protesters. But, in fact, the OWS movement has spread beyond Europe and is now global.
There has been some change in the Republican response to OWS. Fewer Republicans are describing the movement in derogatory terms. Even Eric Cantor has dropped the word "Mob". Being the political animal he is, he sees the political implications as more and more people are willing to step forward and say, "I'm one of the 99%". But the harsh reality is that none—not one of the Republicans in office or running for office—are willing modify their conservative thinking to help Main Street Americans who are out of work, or being taxed to protect the riches of the wealthy.
It may have been Nixon who coined the term "silent majority"; but today's silent majority is frustrated and angry. They are angry that those in Congress cannot craft a jobs bill while politicians put themselves or their party first and not the country. And now the silent majority is not so silent. Not only are 99% of Americans angry at government, they are outraged by the bank bailouts and the banks demonstrating their greed by adding monthly charges on their debit cards. They are outraged by the banks unwillingness to work with customers and their continuing policy of foreclosing homes. They are outraged by the huge bonuses given to top executives.
As long as middle class Americans continue to get the short end of the stick, this movement will continue to grow and it will play a significant role in the 2012 election. If corporate CEOs, Boehner and Cantor don't come to grips with this reality, their picture can be hung along side of Alfred E. Neuman with the caption, "What, me worry?"
Looks like Barry’s HHS Secretary Sebelius was trying to sneak the CLASS dead body out into the dumpster, hoping no one would notice it if she dumped it late on a Friday afternoon. This admission that CLASS was totally unworkable and doomed to financial failure right from the start could be pulling the first thread that exposes Barry’s whole HCR ClunkerCare plan as a fraud and a scam. Today’s WSJ has an editorial thanking Judd Gregg for what he did to expose the CLASS fraud:
“The only reason the Health and Human Services Department pre-emptively called off this scheme is that former New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg succeeded in inserting a proviso that required the Class program's reality to match Democratic promises as a matter of law. If HHS couldn't provide "an actuarial analysis of the 75-year costs of the program that ensures solvency throughout such 75-year period," it couldn't be legally implemented.”
The editorial ends with the following common sense recommendations:
“At a minimum the GOP could begin by repealing the Class program altogether, since its legal authority is still intact. "One should never leave a partly loaded gun on the table, even if most of the chambers are empty or just house blanks," writes the American Enterprise Institute's Tom Miller. He also suggests attaching a few of the more destructive provisions and forcing Democrats to defend them, such as Mr. Orszag's Independent Payment Advisory Board of 15 political appointees who have broad unaccountable powers to control health-care markets and health care.
Our suggestion is for a Gregg-like amendment that applies to the entire health law and not simply Class. If reality can't match the rhetoric that accompanied the bill—about fiscal responsibility, bending the cost curve, keeping your health care if you like your health care and all the other false promises—then, legally, it should be repealed like Class. Call it a truth-in-advertising clause. ObamaCare would collapse in a heartbeat.”
Ain't never gonna happen!
Good luck with THAT! lol
Great thoughts this morning Gingerbread Mamma - it was only a matter of time before Herman was exposed as a Koch sucker.
The Koch Brother's filthy fingers reach far & wide!
Conservatives Just Lie Constantly
Rupert Murdoch Deploys His Minions To CNN To Smear Occupy Wall Street
Not content with their multi-platform smear campaign against Occupy Wall Street, Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp had friends and employees on CNN today to attack and smear the protests.
Here is the Wall Street Journal’s Bret Stephens claiming that Occupy Wall Street is anarchy:
This story is an example of what Occupy Wall Street is up against. The News Corp smears of the protests are seeping into other media streams and reaching viewers who might not watch Fox News or read a News Corp publication. Since their attempts to squash the protests through their own platform have not worked, they are going to try to get the message on as many different media platforms as possible.
Occupy Wall Street is a grassroots populist movement that is spreading like wildfire around the globe. News Corp and all the corporate media are pulling out all the stops, but word of mouth will always overcome televised talking points.
1,000 Days Of Right-Wing Media Hoping President Obama Fails
Right-wing media figures are marking today's 1,000th day of the Obama administration by using a 2009 comment by President Obama to reinforce the right-wing talking point that he has failed to improve the economy. This latest right-wing attempt against Obama continues a historic campaign to bring down his administration; however, economic experts agree that the economy would be much worse without Obama administration policies.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201110170001
The ninety nine percent are winning, and Rupert Murdoch is running out of tricks.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/rupert-murdoch-cnn-occupy-wall-street
==============================================
Republicans don't recognize the truth so they are so befuddled in their (ODS) OBAMA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME they just make things up.
Shame Shame Shame
Never trust a thief!!!!
Despite Denials, Sources Say Darrell Issa Was Briefed On Details Of ATF's 'Fast And Furious'
October 14, 2011
House Oversight Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) said this week that he was "never" briefed about what was going on in Operation Fast and Furious and that ATF agents who ran an April 2010 briefing he attended "never mentioned 'Fast and Furious' by name."
That contradicts contemporaneous documents prepared for that meeting as well as the claims of officials familiar with the briefing, who say Fast and Furious was, in fact, discussed in detail. Still, Issa's office says staffers at the meeting don't recall Fast and Furious coming up and say they weren't given the briefing materials.
An official with knowledge of the meeting told TPM that Fast and Furious was one of "several cases that were briefed in great detail" at Issa's April 2010 briefing. The official specifically said that the names of the operations were mentioned in the briefing, which was run by former ATF Director Ken Melson
Documents prepared by ATF officials for Issa's briefing back up that narrative, detailing specific developments in Operation Fast and Furious.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/despite_denials_darrell_issa_was_briefed_on_details_of_atfs_fast_and_furious_operation.php
==========================================================
Now Fox in all fairness should investigate Issa, Murdoch, and the Kochs; in fact.
Never trust a thief!!!!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
http://ametia.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-biden-2012.jpg?w=150
Gingerbread Mamma
KOCH-CAIN Connections
Good work, Gingerbread Mamma,
Unfortunately, since it is the truth the righties will not believe it.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Winston Churchill quote
Answer:
The Communist Party
The Nazi Party
Bill Ayers
Barack Obama
Feisty and Ron great posts to start the week off
Feisty, I have a surprise for you tomorrow GF
I'm guessing YOU are on the losing end of this one, SweetCakes.
But keep it up- the desperaton is quite fun to behold.
One NY City Cop hospitalized this weekend with a head injury at the hands of Occupy Wallstreet thugs.
This is only the tip of the iceberg.
Obama and his class warfare is the root cause.
It's tough to imagine a more despicable president!
JAS1,
Looks like we can add China to that list of OWS Supporters as well.......
x
xx
Cain will soon be coming under heavy scrutiny, not only by the Democrats, but by his own Party. He doesn't "fit" the qualifications of the majority of Republicans.
Obama in 2012.
I'm going to have to ask for a source or call bull@!$%#!
Good Morning All
Bev and Feisty, these Koch boys are busy cretins, is there anything they wont fund, support? The are behind everything that is against anything for ordinary everyday hard working Americans.
Makes one wonder, why?
sorry about the 3-fer....FR acting weird this morning...
AP article in brockton enterprise. Two cops hospitalized. One with the head injury.
Plutocracy comes to mind! ;o)
Look at poor Sniffy this morning ranting & raving about Nazi's... lol
Today's Riddle:
Question: What's the difference between Mitt Romney and the vase in that photo?
Answer: Nothing. They're both empty vessels.
JoAnnaSmith1
Answer:
The Communist Party
The Nazi Party
Bill Ayers
Barack Obama
Lady Sniff,
FYI: Rev Dr MLK was accused of being a communist
King was under FBI surveillance for several years (until he died) due to his ties with communist organizations throughout the country. King accepted money from the organizations to fund his movements.
False. While it's true that the FBI wiretapped Martin Luther King and other members of the SCLC during an ongoing investigation of alleged Communist ties, no evidence was ever found that King was a Communist sympathizer or that the SCLC received funding from Communist sources, according to King biographer David J. Garrow, who examined FBI documents released under FOIA.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_martin_luther_king.htm
NEW YORK (AP) -- New York police say more than 80 people have been arrested in the latest demonstrations there against corporate greed.
Two police officers suffered injuries and had to be hospitalized Saturday. One had a head injury. Police spokesman Paul Browne said 42 people were arrested in Times Square after being warned repeatedly to disperse; three others were arrested earlier while trying to take down police barriers.
Two dozen people were arrested at a Citibank branch when they refused a manager's request to leave. Most were detained for trespassing. Five others were arrested for wearing masks.
About 10 people were loaded into a police van at a Manhattan park after midnight after police announced the park had closed.
GOOD TIMES
Obama has to even bring up his partisan politics during the Martin Luther King Memorial dedication. What a dolt this man is, trying to connect the great civil rights leader to his stupid jobs plan. The guy is losing, it's desperation time for him. He smart enough to see he's a failure, but too stupid to figure out a way out of it. Now Obama in probably his biggest political mistake ever(and there are a lot of them) is fully aligned with the left-wing radical Occupy crowd and he's cheering them on, while that crew becomes more violent everyday.
Now that Obama is getting back on RV-1 to continue his campaigning, he can directly bring that message of support to the Occupiers.
It's not tough to imagine Rob, we lived through it with Cheney/Bush.
"Obama and his class warfare is the root cause.
It's tough to imagine a more despicable president!"
If you insist on that 'class-warfare' lingo, please confine comments about ''dispicable' presindents to the Late St Reagan, will you?
Thanks for the article Rob.
BTW -- violence is not the answer and only hurts the cause.
I do NOT condone it under ANY circumstances!
Apparently Herman Cain is as popular as the conservative "abolitionists" claim he is. NOT!
Look at his take home donations, very telling of your "support" for Cain... are you people really enthralled with Cain or is it he's bait like the black guy in a horror movie (always first to die?)
Give the man his 9 month contract at the 9 O Clock Slot on Fox News with 9 pundents. Take the hint Rupert, give this clown a job already! From the hustle and bustle of his Iowa office that is clearly what he's after.
Hell, I remember a time in Ohio where some protesters lost their very lives.
Their efforts helped stop an immoral, unjust war and all it's attendant loss of innocent lives, but it was stopped.
Sometimes, these movements are not free of risk or loss. They are, however, worthy endeavors.
Carry on, good citizens. Carry on.
OWS was held in over 900 cities & 82 countries last weekend...
Is it any wonder the RWNJ's are running scared?
Rob in ma-3189632
AP article in brockton enterprise. Two cops hospitalized. One with the head injury.
Rob
This topic was discussed here before regarding violence. You certainly have gone to the dark side like most rabid right wingers so apt to paint the protesters at Occupy Wall Street as thugs.
Why not discuss how the right is infiltrating Occupy Wall Street or the violence the police have done to innocent protesters?
FYI: OWS is the “sucker punch heard round the world” from London to the USA to the Arab Spring; and it ain't going no where.
Righte incites riot.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/reporter-incites-occupy-d-c-riot-write-180750896.html
Ooh, arrested for WEARING MASKS!
The Conservative marching orders are out, recognizing the importance of destroying the message of the 99%.
Tuesday of last week Occupy Des Moines was told by the state General Services Administration that it would be no problem to renew their overnight permit on the Capital grounds on a rollover basis.
By Friday morning Tea Party Governor Terry Branstad had overruled the GSA for vague and shifting reasons that all add up to "we don't want you here."
Des Moines mayor Frank Cownie came through with an overnight permit for a public area within sight of the Capital complex and Occupy Des Moines continues to shine a light on the war against the middle class.
All I can tell you JS 1 is that America must be full of Communists and Nazis, they are everywhere from coast to coast, they are young and they are old they, it hard to tell who they are because they look like average Americans, I support them, so now I am Nazi, is that the way it is, if so then there are a lot of Nazis popping out of the woodwork of America.
After all, MLK was only killed in Memphis while in town to support the rights of striking garbage workers.
How inconvenient it is that after all this time people STILL resist the war against the middle class.
Sometimes, these movements are not free of risk or loss. They are, however, worthy endeavors.
Carry on, good citizens. Carry on.
You should be a little more like Fiesty at least she denounces violence.
I'm still at a loss for those that try to compare this movement to the tea party. Can't remember much in terms of tea partiers being arrested or assaulting cops. (and let's not point out the nonspitting incident with the congressman) They get their permits and clean up after themselves. They actually vote and many of them ran and won elected office.
What's the left wing response? Obnoxious miscreants.
Carry on indeed. Maybe the Occupy Bunch, if they are lucky, will get endorsed by Hugo Chavez today.
Anybody care to speculate on the meaning of the republican field raising nine million more than Obama last quarter?
You can hang out with whoever you want to Gumps. But if you're hanging out with Nazi's you're going to have to deal with Navy Disabled - He hates Nazi's.
It's going to be quite the parade these Occupy radicals put on. First will come the Unions, next the Communists, followed by the Nazi's, a very nice red float from Communist China, and ended with the movements defacto hero/leader, Parade Master Bill Ayers.
Anna Molly
Today's Riddle:
Question: What's the difference between Mitt Romney and the vase in that photo?
Answer: Nothing. They're both empty vessels
ROFWL
Love your humor!!!
Anna Molly
Today's Riddle:
Did you take your money out of the mattress and put it back into the stock market on October 3rd?? The last two weeks have been very kind to people with their money in the stock market. Over the weekend I decided to sell the one lowball limit buy order stock purchase that kicked in during Barry's debt ceiling debacle in July/August for a nice short term cap gain in the fun money part of my IRA. I do have to express my gratitude to Barry for that one.
New energy, New hope, new dawn and new belief........occupy every space you see and fight for 99% CHANGE. 99% voice is loudest.
Seriously JS1 and WCA, we may agree on very little if anything, but you know me some from this blog, and I really want to know if you really think I am a Nazi or a Communist.
Rob in Ma......I have checked the Brocton Enterprise,the AP website and the CNN website and cannot find where what you claim happened in NY. There were problems overseas, especially in Italy, where a peaceful march, was overtaken by a different group. This will happen where anarchists and others with a different agenda infiltrate for their own nefarious reasons.
I would like the specific source of your claim, you simply cant make claims without backup, otherwise you leave yourself open to being questioned thereby everything you post becomes suspect.
I will await your response.
"We better stop,hey, what's that sound
Everyone look what's going down."
This movement is growing. It is a clear critique to the power of the 1%, the corporate greed and corruption that started the financial crises that led to the recession. This group of the 99% have bypassed the traditional media and are not interested in a specific political agenda. They are what democracy looks like...
Their voices are live streamed around the world in seconds. They are mostly the young and their passion is real. See for yourself:
www. occupywallstreet.org
Screw these vultures.. Ron Paul 2012
Both of my children are in college and are now very motivated by the OWS. Frankly, I feel the message is undisciplined and hard to follow but my son said it best. "Something is not right; as if the last decade was a fake...we don't have a central message because people want us to define ourselves based on what they know and are comfortable with. it's like we don't know ourselves because what was comfortable and familiar to some including our generation, was a lie; to go back to the way it was is a lie."
He goes on to talk about how people are sharing stories, venting, releasing energy (he's his mother's child) and connecting. What strikes me most though is he doesn't want "our" help. He wants to reinvent create new ideas, find the motivation to "do something good" for his place in the world.
He's so energetic, much more than I've seen him and I can't help but find it refreshing. That is the underlying depth of American culture. We're never really down and out, we just reinvent ourselves and draw new energy. It is his future and from the generation that is given a first place trophy even when they come in last I like that they want to find their own way. I say go for it...
Well NJ maybe because Obama supporters come from the 99% that are going broke, and the republican field represents the 1% with money to burn, on some of these sorry excuses for presidential candidates. What would be more telling is how much money was given by how many people, in what size chunks, why don't you do some research and then gives us a report, then I will take my lumps if I have them coming to me.
You're more like a big government liberal. But just like our President, be careful who you align yourself with if you're behind this Occupy movement. This country has some real sticky issues with Communists and Nazis.
Good luck with that, Forrest. Conservatives throwing those terms around normally don't even know the difference between Nazis and Communists.
They CERTAINLY don't understand that Liberals have a long and honored place in the history of the United States.
Uh, Forest? A minimum of 30% of Obama's donations came in the form of big money bundles. I say minimum because it is reported out as "ranges"- and $200,000 to $500,000 is quite a range.
Could have been more like 70% from big money bundles. Since that's more like what happened in 2008, I'm betting that's what it was- but it's only an educated guess.
I'm thinking that he's losing support for a very good reason- as president, he's a very good community organizer.
JOAnnaSmith,
I am behind this movement. Yes," be careful you align yourself with." Tell that to Washington, to the money interests that spend millions on an election. Tell that to Congress that waste precious time doing NOTHING.
"This country has some real sticky issues with Communists and Nazis."
Are you dumber than two Palins and a box of Bachmanns, Smiff?
These people are NOT Communists and Nazis, for christ's sake.
We know you are not at all happy about being on the wrong side of most of America, but try to be decent, will you?
JoAnnaSmith1 I marched in the Occupy Fayetteville Arkansas march on Saturday. I had the honor to walk next to a WW2 Veteran in this march. So who are you calling a commie & a nazi. JoAnna you are the 1%, I'm PROUD to say I'm in the 99%. I'm RESPONSIBLE, SELf-EMPLOYED, & a TAXPAYING VOTER. All this tells me that your a little nervous about the TRUTH!!!
Hey John B, you need to talk to Navy about throwing around the term Nazi. I haven't used itand JAS1 never called anyone on this board a nazi.
You people are just dense sometimes. The Nazi Party, the Communist party and China and Obama have all voiced their support for the OWS. Nobody said that was who was out there. All it does is show where the support for whatever these people want is coming form.
BTW - Ski masks?
Yeah, banks have this funny aversion to people entering them wearing ski masks. Go figure, or are they just over reacting?
Bev, thank you for post 1:21 reminding us of the same hate that was directed at MLK, Jr. by those who refused to see peace, love, equality and everything this honorable man was doing for the good of ALL Americans and our country to finally begin to live up to its creed, Constitution and Declaration of Independence for ALL.
The same people persecuting him and his people then were the same ones raising their crosses, touting Christian family values and love. Fast forward, here we are TODAY, seeing the same hateful rhetoric hiding behind a Christian Patriot front directed at this our First African American Potus. I am saying this from the perspective of a Christian who does not see the love of Christ being reflcted in the actions of many who claim to be followers of the teachings of Christ. (my opinion)
Mr. Obama will endure this challenge on his destiny and work, just as MLK did, and he will be rewarded for his efforts toward the good of America. These life callings are bigger than the moment and the appreciation and understanding of their sacrifice will only continue to grow. God Bless our Potus and Country.
You are darn right they have issues with Communists and Nazis, which is why it is so unfair and dangerous to label a bunch of Americans so easy with those terms, those college kids they are not Nazis, they do not want to take over the world, they want a fair an equitable chance at a slice of it, we promised them that, we were promised that when we were their age, that's the American promise, that you will have a chance at success if are willing to work hard. 15 million unemployed people want a job, and probably at least twice as many want more work then they currently have, they don't want communism, they are not Nazis they want to work and earn their own living wage. You can call these people a lot of things if you wish but the Communist and Nazi thing does not hold a drop of water, it is beyond political satire, humor, or rough play, and frankly descriptions like that only fuel their anger and frustration at the fact that they want to be capitalists, but the system no longer allows them to personally work and earn a profit for themselves. In any event I say a lot of things about a lot of people, sometimes I am unkind in my descriptions, but I have never compared or described any republicans or their supporters who are American citizens as Communists or Nazis, it's not fair, it's not accurate, and it has the potential to cause a lot of unnecessary harm and trouble.
California Tom
Cain will soon be coming under heavy scrutiny, not only by the Democrats, but by his own Party. He doesn't "fit" the qualifications of the majority of Republicans.
GOP Candidates Criticize Herman Cain's 9-9-9 Plan - Fox Business. Watch it on FOX NOISE ...
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1215522056001/gop-candidates-criticize-herman-cains-9-9-9-plan/
I would love to see Herman Cain win the nomination. It would be a "shoe in" for President Obama. It would also prove the Republicans and boo weevils in the south are ready for a color blind society.
But, it ain't gonna happen. Cain just ain't able to garner the GOP or the 1/3 of black voters he says he can get.
Black people do not appreciate him calling them brainwashed or being plantation dwellers. If anyone is a plantation dweller it is most definitely that fool; Hermon Cain.
Uncle Tom was a Christian preacher who decided to stay with the master was because he said I wanted the master to convert to Jesus Christ and I don't want to leave his side until he does.
Does that not personify Cain?
Cain has been criticized for comments, namely, "If you're poor, it's your fault."
That is why Herman Cain will never be President. Not only is he a sell out to Blacks but also the 99% of people losing their property. Why should students not be able to find a job; yet must pay back humongous loans? Why should veterans who fought wars come home to nothing, and people get behind in their bills while these abusers exploit the workers as they sit somewhere sipping champagne from their ill gotten goods?
Most of America does not want to go back to the blueprint of segregated black and white signs seatinga in the libraries, drinking fountains etc, just like the black person doesn't want to count the number of jelly beans in a jar to vote.
Cain is an idiot on political topics.
Herman Cain will not be scoring points with his attitude.
Obama in 2012.
I'm sorry NJ, but I'm really not sure what a big money bundle is, does that mean lots of small donations grouped together, or is Obama still getting some support from the very wealthy and big business?
Certainly not you Smitty. But, you Libs doth protest too much. It's the Occupy Movement that is being endorsed by the Communists, the Nazi's and the Chinese. If you want to support that Movement, be my guest. Just realize who you're supporting, and who else is supporting you. If this is your 99%, there are going to be more than a few people that have a problem with that.
You Libs act like Occupy is some kind of Rorschach test, that it’s different things to different people, all depending how you look at it. It’s not though because we see who supports that effort, the far left fringe of America. The Unions, the Communists, the Nazi’s and the Chinese are certainly quite the collection to bring together and be alignment with the “Cause”, don’t you think? And now that the President is on-board too, that is certainly a motley coalition that he’s managed to cobble together.
It certainly is clear who your enemies are: Corporations, capitalism, and profits, but be aware of who your new friends are too.
Paris.
Bev, thank you for post 1:21 reminding us of the same hate that was directed at MLK, Jr. by those who refused to see peace, love, equality and everything this honorable man was doing for the good of ALL Americans and our country to finally begin to live up to its creed, Constitution and Declaration of Independence for ALL.
You're welcome Paris; I TRY
The same people persecuting him and his people then were the same ones raising their crosses, touting Christian family values and love. Fast forward, here we are TODAY, seeing the same hateful rhetoric hiding behind a...
Umm, that would be an upside down burning cross and white sheet which most of the Congress critters wear. LOL
As of my post there are 60 comments regarding this article and only 2 mention Mitt Romney. I'm glad to see the Dem and GOP establishment lackeys have united in a common cause: stereotype Herman Cain in support of Mitt Romney.
Here's the easy definition of Mitt Romney - more of the same.
Poor Sniffy - last week she was vilifying minorities and the handicapped, this week she's obsessing over Nazi's & Communists.
As far as Sniffy NOT calling anyone in this board a Nazi directly - BS - the implication is loud & clear!
It's well past time for Sniffy to be put out to pasture with the rest of the old fascist goats...
I'm laughing. At the rate Obama is losing support, he'll be lucky to carry Massachusetts and Illinios. I'm laughing some more.
Romney is a Wall Street, robber baron, parasite.
JS1 @ 1.23 Now that Obama is getting back on RV-1 to continue his campaigning, he can directly bring that message of support to the Occupiers.
You bet he can, you can bet it he will, he damn well better, he has no choice, they are American citizens in the streets protesting, he is the president of the USA he is supposed to represent and address the concerns of the whole nation, unlike republicans who unanimously voted against the jobs bill even being debated, even though many in their districts pleaded for it.
I'll agree with NJ as well, he is a community organizer, the problem for republicans now is that he has a huge community of motivated, out to prove a point people, from coast to coast to organize. If he is as good a community organizer as you say, he will organize and harness their efforts. He won't need to raise as much money because he will likely have a heck of a lot of volunteer campaign workers.
Forrest Gump 2.0: Kudos to you for not supporting the name calling by either Party. You are correct that name-calling only inflames the 'other' side. Apparently, I have po'd another poster on a previous blog for my comment about inflammatory statements...it seems that taking issue with those who post personal attacks on candidates did not set well with him/her. The primary issue of virtually all commenters appears to be political/campaign funding. I see the name KOCH bandied about very frequently when reference is made to any Republican candidate/politician. Remarkably on MSNBC blogs, little or no mention of George Soros (or other wealthy Dem supporters) is mentioned. If you go to Rep/Conservative blogs, Koch is defended and Soros is the villain. I don't know if you do much blog-travelling, but it may benefit your political understanding to try the different political flavors that are presented. You don't have to agree with the comments BUT you will see what I have indicated...depending upon which side of the political spectrum you inhabit...the format is always the same: 'WE are the good-guys, the other guys are evil incarnate'. As long as this continues, there is zero probability that anything will ever get accomplished in DC.
Nope. I decided not to tempt myself and put it all into CDs, both short and long term. But I'm glad you've been able to profit these past two weeks or so because that way you'll be able to buy dinner at the next misfits' retreat.
I'll be there.
I confess to being one of them. I did it to be different.
A girl's gotta get an edge wherever she can around here.
Nothing funny about it, Beverly, but thanks. ;-)
So much, rhetoric- so little time.
Let's try some rational discussion. Tell, me, those of you who agree with the OWS people- particularly the father up above who is proud that his college age son is for something- whatever it is- if you agree with any or all of the following statements-
1. Capitalism damages nations due to International Finance, the economic dominance of Big Business, and a global conspiracy headed by a group of financiers who economically control, not just the U.S., but global commerce- and who are directly responsible for the current economic state.
2. While private ownership of business is useful in encouraging creative competition and innovation, it must conform to national interests- it must be "productive" rather than "parasitical".
And, 3, this quote- ". . .today's capitalistic system causes the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance. . ."
Think seriously about each and all of these statements. Do you agree with all of them? One or two? How about the quote? Like it?
Lord, I hope not. If you do, you're obviously with this guy
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/will-democrats-condemn-anti-semitism-occupy-wall-street_595843.html
What you've just read were foundational economic principals of Nazi Germany. The quote? Hitler, in 1927.
One of the most serious deficiencies in this educational system is the lack of education about what Nazis believed. We teach the Holocaust, but never the insidious ideas that led to it.
Do a little research on the economic principles of the Nazis, then compare them to what these Occupy Wall Street morons are espousing. There is not a dime's worth of difference.
So, yeah, Forest, et als- you might just be endorsing fascism. Sadly enough, you don't even know it.
JoAnnaSmith1 I wish you peace. I'm glad you feel the way you do. It allows all the good people here to see just who you are. Thank You.
JS 1 it's Grump not Gump, and I am fine with my new friends, they include the sons and daughters, parents, and grandparents of America, they will march and protest because they feel they need to right some wrongs, they will stand in the cold, they will offer the person next to them their coat, they will share a sandwich if they have one, they are pretty nice folks. Maybe they should just go home and start their own business, collect welfare, deal drugs, or carjack rich people, but they don't they rather peacefully demonstrate in order to implore policy changes from our elected representatives, through the system of government and legislation as it is supposed to work. You can blame Obama and continue to imply he is the cause, but notice how things really popped the the US after the republicans in the senate voted to man along partisan lines, that's why people protest, they don't think somebody is listening to their concerns.
All you need to know about Herman Cain is this..
Democrats hate him...
Republican establishment types hate him...
The media hates him....
Those are reasons enough for me to support him. He pisses off everyone who has had a hand in bringing this country down so far, he most be saying something right.
But the Occupy Movement claims it represents 99% of the people. The President has glommed on to that number and is making his move to bring it into his campaign theme. People can protest all they want, it is their right. But the truth is these people do not represent the interests of 99% of Americans. Far from it in fact. They in fact may for the true 1%-ers, the real outcasts from society. It's still not even clear what they represent, one day it's corporate money in politics, the next deletion of the their student loans. For most, it's probably just another party.
It's not unusual that these malcontents have appeared at this time. The government money has run out, and the people dependent on living off the government are angry the promises made to them will not be fulfilled. The Community Organizer Obama has joined the cause and is very comfortable with them as his class warfare rhetoric fits their class warfare rhetoric perfectly. Of course Obama has that small problem of explaining all those Wall Street fat-cats and Corporate fat-cats campaign donations he keeps raking in. He'll need the media to not report on that little discrepancy in his attacks on the "wealthy".
This next election is not about the differences between Republican and Democrat's basic philosophies.
It is the differences between communist and Democratic ideology's!
All of his life obama has been mentored and supported by these people:
George Soros: Jew that hates jews and the U.S.A.
Anthony Van Jones: socialist/communist, Hates the U.S.A.
Valarie Jarrett: Communist
Vernon Jarrett: Communist, Valarie Jarrett's father-in-law
Frank Marshall Davis: Communist obama mentor
Cass Sunstein: Socialist/Communist obamma tsar
Rev Wright "God Damn America"
Bill Ayres: Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Bernadine Van Dohrn Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Tony Rezco: Chicago crook
Andy Stern: SEIU
Dick Trumpka: UAW
Lil Jimmy Hoffa: That son of a bitch!
Acorn: Criminal enterprise big obama supporters
Black Panthers: Guardians of the Poll
Then there is:
Solyndra
Tonopha
Light Squared
Fast and Furious: BTW, obama Officer Terry's parents deserve answers.
obama your book has an ugly cover.
U.S.A./Capitalism, chavez's venezuela or Cuba --- You choose in 2012!!!!
Ahhh, the hired hands are out today, lol
And the fact that small, mom andnpop businesses along the Street have seen a 40% drop in their businesses, Forrest? That's, what, collateral damage?
Read this
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-white-and-angry%E2%80%A8-communist-nazi-parties-endorse-occupy-protests/
Now, I don't know about you, but were I involved in a cause totally embraced by such groups, I'd rethink my involvement.
Then again, you seem to have romantic visions of this nonsense. Who did you see giving someone his or her coat? Or sandwich? Where exactly, and when, did this "Age of Aquarius" action take place?
See, it's like this, Forrest- I get that neither you, nor most of the people approving of this, get that the manifesto these morons put out is based on Fascism- but it is. Once you have the full throated endorsement of groups like that, it behooves you to do some research, and figure out WHY they endorse you.
Then, you have a choice- recognize what you're inadvertently doing, and walk away from it- or stick with it, in the full knowledge that you have embraced a destructive philosophy that inevitably led to mass murder.
It's entirely up to you, Forrest. And the parents of the ill- educated idiots swept up in this.
The organizers, on the other hand, are fully aware of what they espouse. It remains to be seen if they continue to attract people to such a vile cause.
Fine. Live with it.
Senate Democrats and Independents voted against the procedural vote. Even more Democrats stated they would not vote for passage of the bill if it got that far. The Senate was solidly bi-partisan against Obama's so-called "Jobs" bill.
Me too. He is the other third party candidate running as a Republican. Paul is the other, but he comes across as the bitter old man and he's 78. Cain might actually win the nomination, but he's got work to do beating Obama. I said he had work to do when he was at 3% too.
Dumbo David Gregory doesn't even understand there are imbedded taxes in products and services, that go away under 9-9-9, dropping prices. He doesn't understand that federal taxes are separate from state taxes. Is he on drugs?
The Koch's are capitalist, soro's and obama are anti capitalist in regards to the U.S.A., not pertaining to their own personnel income.
I post You decide!!!
Bill in AZ, I don't always play too nice myself, I'm fine with pushing a few buttons, and getting a few of mine pushed as well. I'm just saying the Communist and Nazi descriptions are a step too far, they are understandably still fighting words with many Americans.
John B, Des Moines, IA
After all, MLK was only killed in Memphis while in town to support the rights of striking garbage workers.
How inconvenient it is that after all this time people STILL resist the war against the middle class.
Worst, John B,
The Rev Dr was a union man. This hypocrites don't realize the impact on labor he gave his life for.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. speaking in support of striking AFSCME
sanitation workers at Mason Temple, Memphis, 4/3/68
At the turn of the century women earned approximately ten cents an hour, and men were fortunate to receive twenty cents an hour. The average work week was sixty to seventy hours. During the thirties, wages were a secondary issue; to have a job at all was the difference between the agony of starvation and a flicker of life. The nation, now so vigorous, reeled and tottered almost to total collapse. The labor movement was the principal force that transformed misery and despair into hope and progress. Out of its bold struggles, economic and social reform gave birth to unemployment insurance, old age pensions, government relief for the destitute, and above all new wage levels that meant not mere survival, but a tolerable life. The captains of industry did not lead this transformation; they resisted it until they were overcome. When in the thirties the wave of union organization crested over our nation, it carried to secure shores not only itself but the whole society.
Illinois AFL-CIO Convention, October 1965
http://www.afscme.org/union/history/mlk/dr-martin-luther-king-jr-on-labor
Give the righties an American flag and they will put on their red, white and blue blinders on. The righties think they are the greatest Americans in the world as they desecrate the working classes, unions, and American values. We need teachers, police, firefirgters, postal workers, factory workers to build a strong America. We do not need a return to the guilded age.
Ron Paul 2012
Cain, Perry, Romney
All taking millions from the billionaires.
All are afraid of Ron Paul because he makes too much sense.
The OWS crowd has swayed my opinion for sure. I was against the top 1% bearing the burden of the proposed jobs bill, but are now for it.. .as long as they get to directly employ the new police, firemen and teachers.
So they pay the new tax and have a new load of employees. They can send in the firemen to OWS and turn the hoses on them to push them back and clean them up in the same step. Then they can send in their police force with battons to beat some common sense into them. Then they can send the teachers in to educate them on the constitution, economics, and common math and maybe some job skills so they could get a job and stop whining.
If this were the plan, I would be all for the jobs bill, as it would probably improve the economy.
ABO 2012
The best thing this president can do is to REPUDIATE and RETURN all Wall street contributions. He can start by reintroducing "cram down" legislation that will allow BK judges to modify mortgages. Then he can introduce legislation to break up the "to big to fail banks" through the repeal of the Gramm Leach Biley Act. OWS is not about big bonuses for execs..It is about how we have been systematically screwed by paper pushes.
Nope. I decided not to tempt myself and put it all into CDs, both short and long term. But I'm glad you've been able to profit these past two weeks or so because that way you'll be able to buy dinner at the next misfits' retreat.
I'll be there.
_____________________________________________
CD's?? Bankrate.com shows the best 5 year CD rates in the country are barely over 2%. Hardly seems worth it.
Are you inviting me to the next libsrus meeting so I can buy you dinner??
This next election is not about the differences between Republican and Democrat's basic philosophies.
It is the differences between communist and Democratic ideology's!
All of his life obama has been mentored and supported by these people:
George Soros: Jew that hates jews and the U.S.A.
Anthony Van Jones: socialist/communist, Hates the U.S.A.
Valarie Jarrett: Communist
Vernon Jarrett: Communist, Valarie Jarrett's father-in-law
Frank Marshall Davis: Communist obama mentor
Cass Sunstein: Socialist/Communist obamma tsar
Rev Wright "God Damn America"
Bill Ayres: Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Bernadine Van Dohrn Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Tony Rezco: Chicago crook
Andy Stern: SEIU
Dick Trumpka: UAW
Lil Jimmy Hoffa: That son of a bitch!
Acorn: Criminal enterprise big obama supporters
Black Panthers: Guardians of the Poll
Then there is:
Solyndra
Tonopha
Light Squared
Fast and Furious: BTW, obama Officer Terry's parents deserve answers.
obama your book has an ugly cover.
U.S.A./Capitalism, chavez's venezuela or Cuba --- You choose in 2012!!!!
You know No Jo, any "ism" can be used to degrade a society, socialism, communism, capitalism. The Nazi used socialism/nationalism to degrade their society, the Americans used socialism to fund public schools and Social Security. The Russians used communism for absolute power, the Chinese used it to fuel an economic overflow of worker bees that produce "communist" goods that we swallow with glee here in the U.S. (just turn your laptop over and see the "Made in" tag)
Further, the English utilized Capitalism to fuel a global empire and pilfer poor nations of their national treasures and the Americans used it to fuel upward mobility of classes.
Any of the "ism"s can be tainted and used for evil. I sense my children feel slighted by Super Capitalism and as my son says "the unfair advantage" that the vote of a non citizen corporation (which are NOT people) has on the bureaucracy in the form of lobbyist. I know that my mother always said that too much of a good thing can kill you so one man's doctrine is another man's enslavement (just ask or founding fathers to quote the 3/5ths compromise).
I don't believe the OWS folks are looking for a rebuke on capitalism or some propaganda to nationalize (which is the basis for the Nazi movement to move against outsiders and utilize any "ism" necessary to do it as I recall from my obsession with the Military Channel) that was the point . BTW we're so obsessed with the Nazi that we really do the movement an injustice to our sense of acceptance that anything we consider bad is Nazi. That was Hell on Earth! Quit throwing such labels around recklessly. Nothing can compare unless you're in Rwanda.
Finally, The OWS seems more inward and amoebic (again I disclaim that my son is apart of the movement) and it's rather telling of a generation that gets their freedom from the internet which is rather amoebic.
Bottom line, you're seeing something new, undefinable. "ism"s need not apply so drop the rhetoric...
Yes. Yes they are. And Americas intolerance of both won't end any time soon.
Has the Occupy Movement rejected the endorsement of these groups? They have certainly accepted the Unions into their ranks (or is it the other way around?)
dsdsherm: And so you would have Obama do as you do and channel Nixon-Agnew in order to dismiss these protestors as dirty, unemployed and just too darn what, active? Do you even read what you post?...this is just one reason why the 'let em cake' candidate Cain is the latest flash in the pan with the extreme right who do believe they are "real" Americans, and everyone else are not...none of you have a very good handle on very basic math.
NoJoe: where didyou get the insane notion that businesses have seen a 40% drop in business since the protests began? More charges just made up out of whole cloth to suit your politics...
JAS1, have you forgotten the cardinal rule of making an argument? When you call someone else a Nazi, you automatically lose the argument.
I would have walked with Occupy Little Rock on Saturday but had to work until after 7 PM that day. I was in college at the time of the Kent State massacre and we want peaceful demonstrations - no violence - and they have been peaceful (if not exactly orderly) in America.
OWS complains about corporations while excepting money from them. I watched Kanya West walk with them wearing a gold neckless and brand clothing.
Ha really NJ, you don't have a clue as to my romantic notions, about this movement or my understanding of Fascism, Socialism, Marxism, and Nazis, or the American protesters propensity to be lead to commit mass murder by any group. I have romantic notions about the protests, Ha you are quite the drama queen this morning.
As far as sharing I have personally witnessed union men who are now part of these protests, who were themselves laid off and broke, scape together some tools, bottled water, what ever they could, and the gas money to get there, and drive to Alabama and Missouri after the tornadoes, just because they had the time if not the money and wanted to help someone less fortunate than themselves. Yeah I like these folks, they don't seem like they could be lead to mass murder to me.
John: you really are delusional...Cain does not even have a campaign staff. Even HE doesn't think he can win a single primary.
Notable LIES:
1) Romney is a card-carrying member of Wall Street: There is no doubt Romney is corporate friendly (duh) but let's not forget establishment Democrats have a love fest with Goldman Sachs.
2) The protests are violent: Thank you Glen Beck pea brains. The number of people assembled pretty much proves that this is a non-violent demonstration, with your TYPICAL and VERY SMALL number of miscreants getting arrested for things that are illegal, and/or violent. You probably have more incidents of violence at a rock concert, or drunkent fights at a baseball game.
3) This is a 'left' oriented protest: No. What is funny is self-proclaimed douchebag party members being against protests that pretty much are in alignment for what they, supposedly, are all about. So, once you get over the parrots of the Douchebaggers, you see that this is only painted as political by those who the protest is exactly against.
4) Gazillions of people are protesting!: False, and promoted by both the media and the protestors. Here is what is so - there are many protestors. They are extremely dedicated. They are, in fact, growing. They are not organized, and when you look at the actual numbers, while it is a lot for a protest, it isn't exactly a groundswell of people either. Like many effective protests, though, it is enough people to make a good screenshot for your evening news.
5) Zuccotti park nees to be cleaned: As has been shown, this is one of those rules that can be used to break up crowds and the protestors saw right through it. You could easily just give the protestors a list of things they need to do to keep the park clean, and let them do it, threatening only to move in if it is not done. But, of course, cleaning the park was really not the intention. If you get people to disperse long enough, there's a good chance a lot of them go home and that was really the point.
There's plenty more but those are the 5 I have time to type about right now.
Man, am I glad I was never your child's teacher. I had to deal with plenty of folks like you- you can rationalize ANYTHING your child does, no matter how destructive- as part of their "exceptional personalities".
Have you read the group's Manifesto? Has your son? If so, and if you, as a father, have any clue what this Manifesto proposes, (even if your son does not)- how can you support it- and his involvement?
I posted the link to the article on the full throated endorsements from the American Communist and American Nazi parties. You okay with your son being involved in something they whole heartedly support?
Probably- because you are one of those parents who believe that if their child did it, it must be okay. Brilliant, even.
Bad grades? Fired from a job? The teacher or the boss are against your child. Wrote a bad word on the bathroom wall? Slashed some teacher's tires? It wasn't him! Or, if there's proof it was- well, boys will be boys, after all.
Where is my proof? You admitted in your first post that you had no idea what he was working toward, doubted that he did- but you were proud of him for being excited about doing it.
Five will get you ten that the majority of the overgrown children in this movement have parents just like you.
You are the ones they should be protesting- you thwarted their development, causing them to be
eternal children in a world that expects them to be adults when they come of age.
Congratulations.
I am just going to get it all out there right now, I am a union man, I support our president, I support the OWS movement, if want to believe it, then I guess that makes me a Communist, Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Nazi. Oh what the hell I am also a lesbian trapped in a mans body, so there, I'm all out now.
I guess you have some company Forrest - so AM I!
I can smell the fear coming off them this morning, when they have to dig into the bag of dirty tricks and play the Nazi card!
Note to ALL right wing nut jobs - it ain't working and you have plenty of reasons to be scared sh!tless!
The 1% can only keep the boot on the neck of the rest of the 99% for so long before people say ENOUGH!
You know what's funny No Jo. You sound like a liberal... the tables have turned, you can find any piece of html on the web to justify your argument so you invent an adversary.
I have read many "manifestos" in my day and I have seen them all on the internet. You choose the bad ones, other choose the good ones. My point is I trust my children to think for themselves.That is the part I'm proud of (where I'm from, making your own path is the best way to avoid getting shot at, literaly). They know how to survive. They'll avoid genocide just fine so no worries up their in NJ!
You're trying to make something that you can be against rather than argue for something that you are for! My children don't want to kill anyone. They don't need a manifesto to vent that:"
it's hard to find joy in your career if you have to beg and cheat to get a desk job that no one likes and to be fired or shoe horned into a contractor with no health benefits but the CEO gets a 100 million dollar parachute for rewarded for cheating"
-(as you so eloquently argued on the CEO's behalf in your "not me" manifesto above.)
My children want the truth. "Scratch a lie find a thief" as some of the old timers say. You've been on this blog far too long, you know better, you're starting to sound like an argument-less liberal.
This next election is not about the differences between Republican and Democrat's basic philosophies.
It is the differences between communist and Democratic ideology's!
All of his life obama has been mentored and supported by these people:
George Soros: Jew that hates jews and the U.S.A.
Anthony Van Jones: socialist/communist, Hates the U.S.A.
Valarie Jarrett: Communist
Vernon Jarrett: Communist, Valarie Jarrett's father-in-law
Frank Marshall Davis: Communist obama mentor
Cass Sunstein: Socialist/Communist obamma tsar
Rev Wright "God Damn America"
Bill Ayres: Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Bernadine Van Dohrn Socialist/Communist, Weather Underground
Tony Rezco: Chicago crook
Andy Stern: SEIU
Dick Trumpka: UAW
Lil Jimmy Hoffa: That son of a bitch!
Acorn: Criminal enterprise big obama supporters
Black Panthers: Guardians of the Poll
Then there is:
Solyndra
Tonopha
Light Squared
Fast and Furious: BTW, obama Officer Terry's parents deserve answers.
obama your book has an ugly cover.
U.S.A./Capitalism, chavez's venezuela or Cuba --- You choose in 2012!!!!
I can smell MSN propoganda!
JoAnnaSmith If you had a family member who was a in union, would you feel the same way? Would feel that about your neighbor? Please answer, I welcome your thought.
AP,
I didnt say Obama channel anyone. He is already pre-tuned to the Chavez channel.
I am saying to haev the top 1% direct the Police, Firemen and Teachers. After all, they are expected to pay for all this. Might as well make them direct employees of the rich. That way they can use them to beat down these idiots who wish to protest against them. It only seems fair. If they are expected to foot the bill, they should get some benefit these moron in the OWS crowd do not get. After all the OWS people wont be paying for anything.
So I say let the top 1% pay for the bill, and then use the new firemen, police and teachers to hose the filth off the crowd, beat common sense into them and educate them why they are wrong.
Seems fair to me.
I certainly wouldnt have BHO direct them, as he is part of the OWS crowd and perpetuating this class warfare rhetoric.
If BHO wasnt demonizing the rich, do you think these protests would be happening? I doubt it. The sheep are following their shepard.
I am glad the Dem party is aligning itself with this crowd. The more they chant anti-semetic chants, align with communists and marxists, and turn to violence, the more the disgust is building with normal people. It is becoming obvious this IS the voice of the Democrat party. And law abiding citizens dont like it.
So keep up the anti-Jew chants and rants. Keep talking of Socialism not being a dirty word. Keep talking down Capitalism. Keep demonizing success.
And it will keep furthering the right, and pushing the independents to the more peacefull side. We may protest, but it is peacefull, respectfull, and lawfull. And we smell better.
ABO 2012
Here's my final take on this folks. Get on the blogs, start a petition. Implore Companies to buy American goods! Get Target, Walmart, etc to have sections of the store dedicated to American Made Items. Ask your local contractors to pick up more American made goods to use in their business. Go to home depot. ask for the US Stuff. I got a new drill the week Black and Decker made in China. Couldn't find anything made in the U.S. so I ASKED! Let's do it. One business at a time, your sports wear, your camping gear, your guns! Made in America folks. We can do this! More jobs people! More Americans!
Beverly stated: "Why not discuss how the right is infiltrating Occupy Wall Street or the violence the police have done to innocent protesters?"
The problem with your take on the infiltrating is, both sides are doing it. Which will cause the normal outcome, violence, which is the reason both sides do it. The only way this protest will make a difference, is when they boot the party liners out of it.
Neither side wants this protest to succeed. Not when big money is at the top of their agendas.
merlinwizard:
JAS1, have you forgotten the cardinal rule of making an argument? When you call someone else a Nazi, you automatically lose the argument.
=====================
Who have I called a Nazi?
Feisty, You are so right.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win".
-M. Gandhi the leader of a non violent movement that spoke truth to power. In this case the British colonial power.
Wont this make more rich Americans,,,which in turn, will make America more evil?
It might be best to keep the evil out of America, and in the hands of places like China and India. Arnt you patriotic?
That's not exactly what I said, and you know it, but you can still buy.
And you're right about the rates, but a gain of 1 percent is better than losing 10 or 12 percent. On the whole, the market is still down by about 1,400 points from where I got out.
And down again today, I see. I hope you don't take a bath.
Or wait. ;-)
Answer; Anyone who supports the Occupy Wall Street Movement...
Now hop back on your unicycle and continue your pathetic attempt to back-peddle...
Maybe you should stick to denigrating the handicapped, it's much more your speed...
The market on its worst day under Obama was still twice as good as right before GW left.
I love the 99% / 1% numbers now being thrown around. After looking at some of the turn out OWS has gotten you sure your not the 1%. These numbers mean nothing. It's about support and NO group has 99% support.
I'm certain they are good folks. I would imagine many of them are perplexed why Boeing wasn't allowed to open a manufacturing plant in South Carolina that would have created thousands of jobs. Not union of course, but a job is a job, so in this economy maybe we can't get too particular, correct Grumps?
Or are you of the strident notion that if it's not a union job, it's best not take that job and continue looking, and waiting?
I find it absolutely amazing that these fools honestly believe that they are on the same side as "most of America" let alone the "Right Side" of that position.
Dreamers! They have always been here and always will... but it's the REALISTS that make it possible for them to sit around all day dreaming!
True. And if no one believes you, just share this with them:
http://www.nyse.tv/dow-jones-industrial-average-history-djia.htm
The market dropped 2,000 points in the fall of 2007, and then another 3,000 points in the fall of 2008.
So, I guess this means you're a man who likes women? LoL
"Reagan private sector, private sector private sector private sector. Reagan Reagan Reagan. What I meant was what I meant was what I meant was...Reagan."
- Mitt Romney 10/12/11
If Herman Cain gets the nomination for POTUS in the GOP, I'll take the loss with him, while the rest of America votes for Barry Sotero.
If OWS could have one demand met what would that one demand be?
Higher taxes on the rich? Give me a number of what it takes to be "rich".
Please if you respond give me something coherent, no random bumper sticker phrases that could mean anything and nothing at the same time. Example - (Equal justice for the in slaved working class) I have no idea what equal justice your referring to or who the in slaved working class is.
I'm hearing crickets!!!
Fear is a great motivator. The right wing is going into panic mode. The GOP will need every dime and a lot more to win this one. The tide of public opinion is turning and it's not in favor of the GOP. Yes, the Pres. and Dems have low approval ratings, but the GOP has even lower numbers.
Don't worry, the Democrats will step up contributions going into 2012. They don't have a primary to fund and the general election season doesn't really kick in until the conventions are near.
I suspect that's because you mostly listen to yourself.
There have been lots of different numbers used in lots of different proposals about concentration of wealth and certain levels, and who ought to be taxed and at what rate.
Pay better attention.
Anyone who works for you, I suspect. It wouldn't be my first choice.
And down again today, I see. I hope you don't take a bath.
Or wait. ;-)
________________________________________
The market goes up and it goes down every day. I did end up with a slightly smaller STCG than if I had sold on Friday. No biggie. One of the earliest lessons I learned about investing is that bulls make money, bears make money, but, pigs get slaughtered.
Concerning Cain's responses this last weekend, it seem that he got his answers mixed up. I think he meant that 9-9-9 is a joke, and he was actually serious about the electric fence.
Of course you are, LogicRequired. They have no coherent answers.
Look at the responses to my post, asking them if they agreed with the statements posted. Know what?
More than a few of the regulars have posted things very si liar to those statements. I expect they are a little cowed by the fact that they have discovered that those are fascist economic statements.
Does not alter their support for OWS one iota- since they seem to believe it will help Obama reenergize the callow into working to reelect him.
Not bloody likely.
In fact, when they endorse whoever it is that Cornel West and Ralph Nader draft to run as a third party candidate- guaranteed to draw votes from Obama- you will see the quickest turnaround EVER.
Some will attempt to plead, rationally. The rest will denounce, decry, and express total revulsion for their entire movement.
They will say that there were, at first, sympathetic- but the American Nazi/Communistmparty endorsement drove them away.
It will be malarkey- and the proof is right here.
Anna Molly,
I thank you for your reply, but you didn't answer my actual question!
You insult me because I haven't gotten an answer and called everyone out on it, then you give me some crap about a lot of "different numbers used" blah blah blah. Have an opinion and give it to me, it doesn't have to be the OFFICIAL OWS line.
As far as my example goes, I actually made up the sentence myself. I tired to use buzz words like equal, justice, and working class, to make a sentence that sounds great but doesn't really mean anything. As far as those who work for me you're probably right, I mean higher then minimum wages for people with no high school degree, insurance, vacation time, profit sharing. It's people like me who should be thrown out of this country.
For someone using the screen name "Logic", you certainly have a paucity of it.
You don't understand what the numbers really mean. Perhaps a little more reading before you post?
Absolutely amazing. That's exactly what we had for Boss's Day lunch, pulled, with tangy barbecue sauce.
Watch your wallet, Joe. I have a knack for getting others to buy.
And you already offered. ;-)
fielden
everyone knows what the 99% vs 1% means, but many (I would say most) think your ideas to help the 99% would actually hurt 99% if not 100%. So the fact you say your for 99% of the country MEANS NOTHING. I along with 98% of the country say speak for yourself. (see how easy it is to pretend you represent everyone) If you have to add people who disagree with you to your number your cause is crap.
Wow, that sounds generous. Pat yourself on the back, why don't you? I'm sure all your employees are appropriately grateful.
But actually, I was thinking more about the intangibles.
I don't speak for OWS, so I can't answer that, and won't try.
@ Logic
It is true that it's a challenge to define "rich." If you live in Omaha and make $250K you're doing well; in New York City or Los Angeles maybe not so good. I personally would probably describe rich as ten times the average household income, or around $500K.
There is a very interesting article on an investment manager's view of the wealthy. I can't put links in posts, but I suggest you google for the article:
who rules america an investment manager's view on the top 1
It's a very enlightening read, and I think it gives the uninformed a much clearer perspective of who should be considered rich.
I asked an honest question about an hour ago
I expected tons of responses instead I got nothing, and that is the problem isn't it. Many of you support them but have no idea what they want. I wasn't expecting an official response, but I thought you would have at least one main issue you could articulate. But no, after an hour you people got nothing! Looks like your just bitching for the sake of bitching, no coherent plan what's so ever, and that is why OWS is so dangerous and stupid. Go home, take a bath, and come back when you know what the "F" your talking about. Nothing more then a bunch of slogan chanting morons.
Hi there AM "So, I guess this means you're a man who likes women? LoL"
You got it, I just thought I would make that sound as horible as possible, to republicans! Anyway, I'm out! and I feel better now that I'm out!
Dave,
Thank you for the response, I will check it out. Not only is it a challenge to define the rich, but it is also a challenge to decide what fair is. If they aren't paying their fair share now, what is fair? 60%, 70%, 95%!!!! And who is it that is deciding "fair"?
I'm sorry, I forgot you have to say something completely non-factual and inane, but with great gusto to get a response here, on extremist First Read...
OBAMA IS A JERK
BUSH IS A JERK
PELOSI IS A JERK
BOEHNER IS A JERK
Please, now that I have your attention, response with your equally loud, but thoughtless hyperbole so we can have a yelling match that will go nowhere :)
JAS1 and her followers....still rooting for the J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon days.
Collapsing posts and this add both suck.
Wow, Conservatives really went into spin and deflection mode today in order to prevent discussion of Herman Cain's connections to the Koch brothers' Americans For Prosperity. They've collapsed, accused, deflected, even thrown out accusations of Nazism against OWS in order to keep the attention away from efforts by the wealthy elites to consolidate their purchase of the Republican Party and escalate their war against the middle class.
In spite of all that it's an effort which is destined to fail. We're onto the GOPTP now. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Mittster's sponsorship by the very powers inspiring a wellspring of support for OWS or Herman Cain's shilling for the Anarcho-Capitalists, there is no longer anyplace for them to hide. The conversation will continue coming back to the Conservative war against the middle class, just as it has today.
Mmmm, that sounds good. I really would like to, but you'll be SO lonely, since you're obviously the only one here who knows that you're talking about, not to mention the only one who has had a bath today.
I couldn't do that to you.
Are the folks from Fox News here? Do you think I could get Big-headed BillO's autograph?
My official reply to Anna Molly,
yawn.
LoL What was the unofficial reply?
I have come to realize that Newt Gingrich is the best man for the job of President of The United States. Just listen to him! Check out his website. He has the *successful* responsible experience, the knowledge, the passion for America, the drive and the ability to once again make America the greatest nation on earth! (F.y.i. - I am *not* a member of his campaign.) Last, Newt Gingrich is also the official choice for P.O.T.U.S. of the Tea Party. God bless America!!!
Condolences this morning to the Wheldon family and friends, as well as the entire Indy Car fraternity.
Now, you kids play nice on here today, ok?
What a tragedy!
There's no doubt Dan will be missed by many...
I just happened to turn on the TV right before they did the 5 laps in memorial. They also replayed the footage from Danica's car - horrifying. She was unhurt, but what an awful view she had.
I've been a fan of racing my whole life and personally involved in it for the last 10. Days like yesterday never get easier.
I take comfort in knowing he died participating in his passion!
We should all be so lucky...
Thank you DBO. I was watching live and a good friend of mine was in the stands. I'd like to note that Dan Weldon did nearly all the development driving for the new, safer car which will debut with the 2012 season. His work will keep many drivers safer for however long the next generation car is used. Very sad that IRL wasn't able to get just one more safe day in with the old car.
John B, in that sport, there is no such thing as 100% safe.
Dangerous business racing is. God bless his family.
I was at the Indy track in turn 4 the year he went upsdide down along the catch fence to Turn 4. It amazed me then that he wasn't injured. Pretty hard to stay 100% safe, though, at over 200MPH in a car that doens't weigh much.
I never agree with you red head...but I do this time.
Define Romney?
A man with enough money to run for the presidency when ever he feels like it.
Because he will never become president!
Does anyone remember the Obama girls, especially the one singing "I have a crush on Obama"? In an interview recently, she revealed an interesting take. She said after the video was released, millions of youngsters emailed her and told her the video had energized them and they would vote for Obama. That is the kind of mindless voters Obama is counting on for his re-election. Sorry Barack, the Obama Girl said in her interview that she no longer has a crush on you. She compared you to a love relationship which did not turned out as anticipated. Translation: You just got dumped.
There Job seeker goes making things up again. Guys you do know the world is laughing at you.
She was hawt!
Obama girl 2012!
JobSeeker, Sexy "Obama Girl" was paid to act for that video. It was actually making fun of the hoopla over his campaign, it was a comdey bit, it wasn't paid for by him.
But he sure made that girl alot of money, and the producers too. As for her not being a supporter, I heard the actors, "Harry and Louise" in the George Bush healthcare ad were Democrats.
The world burns and you talk about this.
Well the right-wing trolls are at the game of "collapse coward" again .... at least the moderators restored this string.
Herman Cain is simply the "popover candidate" - all puffed up and crusty on the outside, but entirely hollow and filled with hot air inside.
His "tax reform" plan is entirely unworkable and ineffective. His other proposals range from insane - the electrified fence, for example - to ridiculous. He doesn't even really offer much in the way of any substance about how he would perform the office of President - he's told more than one interviewer he'd work that out when the time came. That time, by the way, will be never.
As the opening post here explained, he's actually a front for the same backstage manipulators who essentially ran the G.W. Bush regime. And just how did that 8-year span of imcompetence and lies work out? Ask the billions globally whose economic suffering has resulted .....
Thanks to the invasion of the modern-day barbarian Goths who have taken over the GOP, the Republican Party is dead. The replacement organization, as the Goths did after the overthrow of Rome in 476 CE when they called themselves "Roman," have assumed the name but not the principle of the old party. They simply intend to destroy, feast of the leavings, and empty the treasury, before devolving into a bunch of squabbling baronies.
That's the ultimate vision of America for the Tea Party types.
No, As a person who leans "Left", I must defend Jobseeker. Too many fanatics put the "Blind Faith" of religion with politics. If you need an example, I am quite sure The Gov of Wisconsin did not run on the platform of destroying the unions. Nor can Obama not be a hypocrite and call out Romney on Wall St. donations. Look at the connection to Goldman Sachs/ and the previous two administrations. Our "Houses" are dirty, and we need to get off our collective @sses and clean them up before they are condemned and we are homeless.
PS I'm bored with the Republican primary.
It will all be over in 385 days.
Not a moment too soon.
Particularly since big business Republicans have already chosen Mitt Romney to be their class warrior, while Cultural Conservatives find themselves incapable of arriving at a suitable choice.
The difficulty will be introducing one of the various Mitt Romney's to Cultural Conservatives in such a way that he might somehow be acceptable.
No problem at all, John B. You see, Republicans, most independents, and even some Dems will unite to vote for ANYBODY who is not Obama.
Bored? How can you be Bored! This is prime time reality TV stuff. One contender after another gets up, and the right goes, "Yeah!! This is the one!! Couldn't be happier with this one!!!"
Silence falls over the crowd. The fear is palpable. You can almost hear the hand-wringing. A sudden intake of breath, held...
And then the candidate does his or her "stupid human trick," the air comes out, a great moan comes up for the republicans, and then the chairman of the RNC says those immortal words:
"Next. There is a 'next' right? Please tell me we have a next...."
Mitt has no chance to win
RON PAUL 2012
If you cannot take Cali and Texas you do not take the nomination. Paul has both in his pocket.
I must say, it seems kind of strange after such an action packed weekend, featuring protests worldwide against economic inequality and the dedication of the MLK monument, to come to First Read and find the hot topic identified as Mitt Romney with a side of Herman Cain . . . really?
There has been much discussion about what exactly it is that those occupying Wall Street, and indeed the world are seeking. Well, I have something that I would like to see addressed . . . it is something that I think every American of any political persuasion should be able support:
I would like to see legislation passed that clearly states that corporations are NOT people, and that the ARE NOT entitled to the rights given to HUMAN PEOPLE in the Constitution.
I mean, if we cannot clarify that most basic concept, then the truth is that the "United States of America" is already gone . . . the only thing that was ever united was "we the people" . . . corporations don't pledge allegiance to any flag.
P.S. I thought the MLK dedication was a beautiful reminder that "we the people" do have the power if we have the COURAGE to use it . . . yes WE can is not just a logan, it is a call to action . . . glad to see more and more folks answering the call.
I couldn't agree more Nash - it left me in tears...
Of course some Stevie & Aretha didn't hurt either... ;o)
It is good to remind people that the fringe right wing always attacks progressives and liberals as being communists. Just like they did Dr. Martin Luther King. I wonder how proud those people are of that, given the admiration that Dr. King receives today? Do they have the good grace to be embarrassed that they tried to continue a system of degradation of a group of taxpaying citizens of this nation? Have they learned a lesson, that ultimately class warfare, particularly that of enriching one group of citizens to the detriment of everyone leads to chaos?
Or will they have to be shown again...and again...and again.
That this is what democracy looks like!
One of Dr. Kings foremost issues was economic justice. He would not be for the teabagger agenda of eliminating the middle class, he would standing proud with Occupy Wall Street, as all right thinking citizens are.
Shame on all of you who use the old smear of "communist". You should have learned by now.
Nash, agree completely. It was a beautiful and moving ceremony. I feel Dr. King would have liked it. We have come a ways, but have many miles yet to go. It truly is a marathon but will be worth every hard won mile.
What do the occupy protesters want? I really don't know.
Paul,
The OccupyWallStreet protestors want to talk about real problems that effect real people and not hear the corporate media telling them about the poor "job creators" and there "uncertainty" as they make money hand over fist paying subpar wages and selling tainted products that they "recall" after enough folks die . . . of course they keep the money.
Folks are tired of the BS, like presidential "debates" featuring fairy tale "solutions" presented by the same folks who created the problems.
Eh, sounds good, but it is open to subjective interpretation. What are the 'real problems?' And who exactly would these protesters like to hear talking about the real problems? The candidates? The Wall Street market employees?
I liked the 60s' protests better. The desired endstates were clearer.
This one kinda seems like a scattered-thought kneejerk reaction. "I'm not sure exactly what I want, but I know I'm not seeing it now."
Dr. King was one of those "community organizers" that Sarah Palin sneered at, and he was killed while trying to organize protests to improve the conditions of people who picked up other people's trash for a living. He also openly opposed the war in Vietnam. It's interesting how conservatives try to revise history so that King is transformed into someone more like Herman Cain. But King had such a profound impact on the United States for the better that not even conservatives who deny global warming and evolution can deny that King was a great leader who deserved the kind of memorial usually reserved for presidents. So they try to revise him rather than deny him.
What a beautiful dedication ceremony yesterday and what stirring words from our President.
I especially was moved by the broadcast of the "I Have a Dream" address. As powerful today as ever and so eerie, knowing what was to come in our nation.
Paul:
I am so happy that you are unsure about what the "real problems" are . . . that means you are truly blessed.
P.S. Good morning to all my favorite ladies . . . Feisty, Gingerbread Mama, Newday, and Steeler Fan . . . good to see you too Houston (for some reason, I think you are not a lady . . . right?)
:o)
and tired of being pushed around, bullied, and taken advantage of by the 2% -
Many of the 2% are begining to realize that they may have just dumped in their mess kits by chasing another dollar...
Its about time!
Nashville, that's a cop out response. It's akin to "if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you." (Hate when my wife uses that one.)
What are the real problems as you see them? Currency devaluation, political polarization, trade deficits, the fact that the private sector isn't hiring enough people, the fact that the private sector is hollowing out, too many public sector jobs, too many public sector layoffs, too much money spent, not enough money spent, too much taxation, not enough taxation, inflation, deflation...
Come on, spell it out.
Paul:
Some of us have to work! :o)
P.S. If you are really waiting for me to 'splain it to ya, I would suggest you not hold your breath. I share my perspectives as I have time and as I see fit . . . clearly you are someone who is used to having things done for you . . . again I say . . . must be nice. . . but I'm not on your staff, mmmkay?
So you've been here all morning, and you don't have time to explain why you seem to support the protest you seem to support? Okay, fine. I'll just go back to thinking this is a fuzzy kind of thing.
Paul:
For a brief moment, I thought you were sincere . . . for some reason you want to talk about me instead of the actual issues . . . I am flattered. I have been here too long Paul . . . run your "confused about the problem" game on a newbie . . . peace.
Nashville_fan
P.S. I thought the MLK dedication was a beautiful reminder that "we the people" do have the power if we have the COURAGE to use it . . . yes WE can is not just a logan, it is a call to action . . . glad to see more and more folks answering the call
Nash, I agree what is even more significant is it is not only happening in this side of the world. The 1% cannot run from their destiny. They have been exposed and are know trying every trick in the book to suppress the truth. Notice how the jesters try to get Rev. Dr MLK's speech writer to say Dr. King would "NOT" want to demonize Wall STREET @ about 1:48
Fox & Friends Weekend
After the Show Show: Martin Luther King Jr
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1221531050001/after-the-show-show-martin-luther-king-jr/?playlist_id=163197&intcmp=obinsite
LOL, these dolts will never learn that their poli-tricks work against them. The whole video is worth watching because Clarence Jones refutes every point they bring up about the socio-economic spectrum as well as the violence FOX NOISE implies.
More free money and more free stuff. Free college education for all, for one thing. $20/hour minimum wage, for another.
Oh, lord, we don't want the rich people on Wall Street to feel "marginalized."
Sorry, I have to vomit.
Back. Sorry, couldn't watch the whole clip, it was just too much. As per the speaker on the left, MLK knew there wasn't a chance in hell that the 12% of the population could impose their will on the vast majority of Americans.
And yet, here we are, with virtually every important aspect of our lives controlled by 1% of the population.
So Paul, are you still confused? There are thousands of individual problems that need to be fixed, but I'll boil OWS down for you into one sentence, and if you still don't get it, it's because you lack the desire or the intelligence to get it; I don't care to guess which.
Gross, obscene, overwhelming inequality between 99% and 1% of Americans, with the 1% running everything.
Take that, and then pick the problem. It may turn out to be thousands of pages long in specifics. We've let the inequality grow so long that, like health care, there is no simple fix. But I can think of a few claymore strokes that would be a good start.
John,
I thought the "free money" went to the "too big to fail" banks and the oil companies making money hand over fist running the oil cartel?
But you are cool with that . . . as long as no real, live human person benefits from any of the taxes that they have paid in, crisis averted, while the majority of corporations pay zero in income taxes and hide their profits in off shore accounts.
Free money indeed John.
Isnt it obvious? The OWS crowd wants something that someone else has that requires hard work and commitment to get. They want to continue to steal/tax the money from others that already pay a higher percentage them them simply because "they can afford it", not because it is justified that they pay even more.
They want to demonize success and pretend everyone in America that has achieved what used to be the "American Dream" is now rich because they somehow stole their success from someone else. They wish to demonize the Capitalist system which has made America great for so many years in favor of promoting Socialism as an alternative.
Basically they want to whine that someone else has something they dont have instead of working to achieve similar results.
ABO 2012
Paul M
Sorry you have not been able to log in for the past 3 years.
The protesters want heads. Not head but heads.
1. Bailouts
2. Secret bailouts by the Fed
3. Secret wars
4. More wars not so secret.
Basically the way the system is has to go. The gov is owned by big business and the people are just getting set to burn stuff when ignored. Here is how it works.
People protest
People keep protesting
Eventually the gov puts Barney Fife and someone gets shot for no good cause
Then the real protesters come in
Stuff gets real
Gov says omg we didnt know
Politicians are kicked out and temp gov is set up.
Our system works but there is a bunkered in group in DC that need removed to allow liberty. Remember, MANY people MANY different causes and reasons to march or protest.
Thanks Cavalier. So it's inequality of wealth and power.
I don't think I lack the desire or intelligence to get that. Just hadn't heard anyone say it before.
Next question: how will the protesters know if they get what they want? In the 60s, it was pretty easy. Some of the protests wanted us out of Nam. If Johnson or Nixon had said, "you guys win; we're leaving Nam," that would have been it. Some of the protests wanted integrated education everywhere in the country. Same thing. When they got it, the issue was won.
What do these current protesters want? Sure, I can guess it's less inequity of wealth and power. But specifically what would need to happen for them to say, "we won!"
There's always been inequity of wealth and power. Actually if you go back to the Middle Ages, that was worse than today. But here in our country, the concentration of wealth is arguably getting tighter. The concentration of power... could make an argument either way for that. Is it a percentages thing (talking wealth here). If a certain percentage at the top of wealth pyramid owned X percent of the total wealth instead of Y percent, would that do it? Would nothing short of total and equal distribution of wealth and power do it?
Mark, if I understand you correctly, the protesters won't be happy until an entirely new form of governance is in place? If that's right, we're talking something well beyond what Cavalier said.
Oh, didn't see your last line, Mark. You're not saying they want a new form of governance, just new people in power.
What??? I don't understand what your trying to get at? 1.) Corporations are large businesses that are RAN by people and who EMPLOYEE people. So do these people have rights? 2.) Do you want us to ignore the people in Corporations and hold the Buildings accountable? If you own a business do you automatically have your rights terminated, or does your business have to become a "Corporation" before you no longer have rights? Just trying to get some clarification.
Dear Logic:
The Supreme Court of the United States has declared that Corporations are "people" with rights of free speech guaranteed by the Constitution in the Citizens United decision.
I strongly disagree.
Nashville Fan,
Where do Unions stand in your book as far as Rights? Do the get free speech, or are they kind of like a corporation and have no rights?
How about the NRA?
Again, just trying to see who gets to have rights and who doesn't and the reasoning behind it.
Logic:
Human people get the rights. Hope that helps.
P.S. The whole "union" talking point is kind of played out, no? There is no force on the planet, including unions, who can stand toe to toe with corporate influence. Our democracy and economy have been bought and sold.
Paul M in Wbridge -
A fairly clear and detailed explanation of the system abuses and misgovernment of countries - not only the U.S. - under the ideology of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics for more than 30 years is presented in Naomi Klein's outstanding book, The shock Doctrine: The Rise of disaster Capitalism. Essentially, the results of those activities are the things being protested.
In order to propose remedies - which include the policies directly responsible for great inequities of wealth - turn to the detailed explanation of how the Chicago Boys and their oppotunistic front men such as Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers actually work. That's found in Thomas Frank's fine volume, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and BEggared America.
Basically, it comes down to this:
1. Regulations limiting the consolidation of wealth, influence and outright power of major banking and financial institutions were reversed. Most prominent of those events was the Gamm-Leach-Bliley Act, also called the "Financial Services Modernization Act," forced down President Clinton's throat the the fait accompli (and highly illegal) merger of Citicorp. and another major institution .... before the bill was passed and signed into law in 1999.
In order to both serve this nation and address one of the core complaints of the OWS protestors, an updated version of the Glass-Steagall Act would have to be enacted, and those "too big to fail" institutions broken up.
2. Deliberate sabotage of regulatory agencies or neutering them by appointing friends of the regulated allowed the outrageous practices of the banks and financial institutions, as well as other industries. Frank in particular documents how this was done from the very beginning of the G.W. Bush regime.
There were two goals - first, to allow the regulated industries to ignore the regulations and enforcement agencies, and, second, to expand a public perception that government is incompetent. Well, under those conditions, government was incompetent - and deliberately so.
3. Make the cost of government so burdensome to the majority of the nation that people would endorse eliminating, privatizing, and selling off programs, services and assets - thus handing power and vast sums of public money to a very wealthy few.
That was done in the Reagan regime, both Bush regimes, and is a leading objective of the promoters of the Tea Party now. The vast debt of the nation and its future cost was created by the Republican administrations deliberately to bankrupt the nation - and has been admitted to by Bob Bennett and many others involved in doing it.
Significant tax reform and increased revenues are vital to preserving what most Americans regard of a national heritage and way of life. And that is why the rabid right is so dead-set against such steps. Their plans are foiled if the President wins this particular battle.
There's more than this to the OWS protest, but these three central issues define the core of the problems. And they define the nature of the battle in 2012.
Nashville Fan,
I get tired of these stupid little word games. "Human people get the rights", what are corporations ran an operated by robots? So unions are human people, or aren't they?
Let me help you. You made a statement that you can't back up, and / or you can't enforce equally, so you throw out some silly statement that doesn't explain your reasoning at all on who gets what and why, and then call my union question tired because you have no answer on why they get it and Corporations don't other then you hate corporations and like unions. You people say stupid things and can't back any of it up other then your hate towards something and your desire to punish those things you have an irrational hate towards. If corporations aren't people why are OWS folks going to CEO's homes? Please don't bother with a reply, it want be informative.
We all know about TARP. I hate TARP too. The problem was if you pushed the big banks over the cliff you take down our entire financial system. No money anywhere. Obama should have broken up the banks that are now bigger than too big to fail. Either break them up or nationalize them. We can't leave them as they are. I agree.
Obama took TARP to another level bailing out GM and Chrysler, which I hate just as much. The government can't pick winners and losers. They need to quit trying. Let the market function and get out of the way.
The big banks played by the rules Congress made. Change the rules so it doesn't happen again.
$20/hour minimum wages and free college like europe is ridiculous. Which is why it gets ridiculed.
Thanks for your post, John A. As long as Conservatives show up every day pretending to not understand the problem it'll just keep giving us opportunities to get the facts out.
I have no interest in nationalizing anything, but a heretofore unseen explosion in American wealth and economic power occurred after the original Trust Busters broke up various oligarchies which were at the time controlling more and more of American life It's an approach that's proven to work. Time to do it again.
Facts like "while the majority of corporations pay zero in income taxes and hide their profits in off shore accounts."?, which is a big fat lie.
Dearst Logic:
The irony of your name was initally lost on me. . . lol . . . another person asking questions when they already know the answers . . . your 15 minutes are just about up! :o)
P.S. Great posts John A. and John B.!
Logic, the individual person working within a corporation has rights as a person under our constitution. Are you with me so far? The Supreme Court in all its wisdom (or lack of) gave corporations the same rights as people. It has nothing to do with the individuals working within the corporation. Stop trying to act like an intellectual.
Dear John:
I beg to differ:
Moderate Dem,
Yes, everyone understands that. So you would agree unions as well as corporations should not have rights, but the people working for corporations and the people working for or are a member of a unions do get rights? If that is the case fine, if not explain why. I could care less what you guys think of me, just explain, if you would of done that an hour ago we wouldn't be here.
Nashville Fan,
The name is not meant to describe me, it is actually a joke, you see REGUIRED is spelled wrong (Required). The name gives me a laugh because everyone thinks the name has something to do with me. When really it is Logic followed by a misspelled word to show how ridiculous things usually are.
the article said 42% of US corps paid not taxes, some because they lost money, many because they shifted money to offshore corps. We should cut the US rate to 10% so the money is reinvested here, creating jobs. Isn't 10% of something better than 35% of nothing?
The entities need to be small enough to fail. Time to break them down. I think there is growing will among even the most conservative to do just that.
When Cain said he would kill anyone that crossed the border and then recanted saying he was just kidding,,,,,Is this the kind of joke a pres. should make?!?!! Wake up America before it's to late!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you kidding? In today's GOP, that little joke alone will probably add four points to his national numbers.
Like Earl Butz's popularity rose 17% in Indiana when he got fired by Nixon for his racial joke....
The Reich really wants their Night of the Long Knives. They've been dependent on illegal labor for who knows how many years, but now, for the sake of the paranoia of the party, they want to just round up and kill the people that have made their fortunes for them. I wonder if they will spare their housekeepers and cooks, and gardeners, and maintenance men....
Well, now with outsourcing being what it is, Mexican labor is too expensive now anyway, so they are expendable. They'll just import Chinese workers for the house.
Cain jokes about shotting those who cross our border illegaly, while Obama and company give guns to cartels in Mexico (Fast and Furious) that are used to shot our Border Guard citizens. Whom who do I choose?
Republican candidates have a problem. They have cheap labor big business on one hand and haters of illegal immigrants on the other. If they make one hand happy, the other one is pissed off. It's kind of entertaining to watch the contortions they go through trying to keep both hands happy.
LR, like so much of what's wrong in our society, gun walking programs actually began in a Republican administration. http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ap-sources-bush-era-1194310.html
You're so right John B. I don't understand why more isn't written about this. It began in Texas in 2005 and went national in 2006. Operation Gunrunner. Sounds like Perry and Bush are up to their eyeballs.
If Cain won the nomination, all the Democrats would have to do is distribute an app to run on smartphones and on their website for people to compute how their taxes would be impacted by the 9-9-9 plan. Once the details came out and it was obvious that only the wealthy would pass less (or more accurately - a lot less) while the poor and middle class would have to pay quite a bit more, Cain would be lucky to get 20% of the vote in the general election.
Romney is a harder one to beat, but Romney's biggest problem is himself. He seems to be on both sides of the same issues at different times and can't appeal to the far right and moderates at the same time. The only way anyone can honestly justify voting for Romney is to believe he's lying about being for most of the things that you're against and being against the things you're for. This is not a good strategy for doing much better than 40% in the general election.
It's looking more like Obama winning in 2012.
Well, it wouldn't be that bad really. To compute, I mean. The sales tax would just be noncollectable, just like sales taxes on internet sites. The 9-?-9 deal is what we would end up with, and it would have to be changed right away, because even the 9-9-9 deal wouldn't cover our expenses. See, the neocons have to have a war going. That's just part of the neocon system. But they seem to have a problem paying for whatever war is going on. We are already up to our eyeballs in debt doing things the neocon way. Did you know that the neo-conservative movement started with the Jews and has the protection of Israel as one of it's primary goals? Never mind. I was surprised, though. Anyway, back to the "pizza deal" tax code, there's just no way the government can collect. For many items, new/used is ambiguous. They would have to define everything you could possibly buy. For instance, if you go to walmart, and buy, say, a book, how can they say it hasn't been thumbed? Go to the register, and tell them there's signs of wear on this product. It has been 'used.' Walmart, always the customer pleaser, and bigger then the government will surely ring it up as a special item, used. Or internet sales? Cars? When was the last time you saw a car on the lot that hasn't been driven. Ever. It's used. The court fight would go on for years over that part.
What was left over just wouldn't pay the bills, no matter what you cut out of government. Even if congress worked free (ha), we would just sink down the debt hole until we disappeared.
Anyway, his credibility is about to go the way of Perry, Bachmann, Romney, Newt....
And the RNC will be offering Christie a hummer to run.
Cain is a lot slicker than Perry, Bachman or romney. He'll be around a while.
Defining Romney - kind of a "working" document. The problem coming up with a coherent definition today is that it might have to change tomorrow. Just too slippery a character to ever get a good bead on him.
Well, it will be tough for him to slip the Wall Street tag. That's just sewed right into his skin. He may flip and flop like a carp on the beach, but he's still going to stink like fish.
" Team Obama will begin to portray him as a creature of Wall Street"
MSNBC and First Read : part of Team Obama.
If Mitt "corporations ARE people" Romney is not a creature of Wall Street, who is?
Corporations are people, fan, as any dictionary will show you. Those people are called stocholders, and they have the same rights as you or any other citizen.
As for Wall Street, for those of us who work hard and strive to build some capital for our retirement, WS is the lifeblood of our economy. For losers who strive to live off handouts from the government, WS is indeed evil.
spider-737231
Corporations are people, fan, as any dictionary will show you. Those people are called stocholders, and they have the same rights as you or any other citizen.
spider, that is all well and good but they don't have the right to exploit the 99%
If corporations are people, I want them on trial for treason, since they've been selling out the U.S., lock, stock, and barrel. Since they are people, does that mean we have to send the entire entity to the chair?
Define Romney? What a weenie!
Come on, Tom - Wall Street weenies are people too, as are the corporations they work for.
Hmmm. Define "people." It's like defining Stalin. Was he really human, or just a monster in human form.
A few months ago, President Obama said the Republicans wanted to dig a moat along the boarder and fill it with alligators. He was joking. Cain was NOT joking, and Obama was closer to the truth about how bloodthirsty the Republicans have become than he probably knew when he joked about the alligators.
See, Democrats are more environmentally friendly. Cain's joke would require tons of coal burnt to power that 1500 mile fence. Obama's joke was a natural barrier - hungry gators.
I saw the video clip of Cain making that comment. He did not say it in a jovial manner, and if he had, it would have been even sicker. Joking about electrocuting people is not funny.
Houston---let's remember that those people coming here are for the most part desperately poor and seeking a better life. I understand if we cannot take them all, but to suggest they deserve to die for trying to support their families is truly heartless.
Somebody tell Barry alligators can't live in the desert.
Tell that to the crocs that live in Egypt.
Crocs live in part of southeastern Egypt, but not in the desert. The vast majority of our US/mexican border is in the desert. Get out a topo map. I want to see a few intelligent posts Cav. You are due.
John-2032532
The vast majority of wingnuts can't tell when someone is joking (Obama) or dead serious about killing people (Cain).
Cain won his business credentials by closing poorly performing Pizza and burger joints. I wonder if he will try and duplicate that idea, in government by trying to shutter our "poorly performing" states. It may be an eye opener when he realizes that most of those states make up the right wing, Tea puppet, voting bloc.
Thats interesting. Poorly performing states in terms of a lack of fiscal responsibility and the resulting impact that will have on providing services are California, Nevada and Illinois to name a few. These are staes that are controlled by Democrats. Sooner or later the federal government will be forced to deal with the almost 15 trillion dollar debt we have as a nation and the "cuts" will be a reality at the federal level as well. The "tell em what they want to hear" Democrat Party tactic may appeal to some voters and make great "talking points", but in the long run will really cause a financial crisis.
and sooner or later Republicans will have to deal with the fact that all they do is talk jobs and obstruct their creation. The 'tell em what they want to hear' crowd is the Republican Party who insist that 'let em eat cake' is a winning strategy. In the long run, as America always does, those voices will be drowned out by reason.
Tony C. Here is anice article from the AP on the poorly earning state of Illinois. Funny how the liberals are screaming about the travesty here but I guess it is ok not to pay bills so union pensions can be paid even if it hurts disabled and seniors. For people like feisty just go on your computer and type in deadbeat state illinois for the article.
Deadbeat state: Ill; owes billions in unpaid bills.
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — Drowning in deficits, Illinois has turned to a deliberate policy of not paying billions of dollars in bills for months at a time, creating a cycle of hardship and sacrifice for residents and businesses helping the state carry out some of the most important government tasks.
Once intended as a stop-gap, the months-long delay in paying bills has now become a regular part of the state's budget management, forcing businesses and charity groups to borrow money, cut jobs and services and take on personal debt. Getting paid can be such a confusing process that it requires begging the state for money and sometimes has more to do with knowing the right people than being next in line.
As of early last month, the state owed on 166,000 unpaid bills worth a breathtaking $5 billion, with nearly half of that amount more than a month overdue and hundreds of bills dating back to 2010, according to an Associated Press analysis of state documents.
The true backlog is even higher because some bills have not yet been approved for payment and officially added to the tally. This includes the Illinois health care agency, which says it is sitting on about $1.9 billion in bills from Medicaid providers because there's no money to pay it.
While other states with budget problems have delayed paying their bills, the backlog in Illinois is unmatched, experts say. Year after year, Illinois builds its budget on the assumption that it will pay its bills months late — essentially borrowing money from businesses and nonprofits that have little choice but to suffer the financial hardship.
The unpaid bills range from a few pennies to nearly $25 million. In early September, for example, Illinois owed $55,000 to a small-town farm supply business for gasoline, $1,000 to a charity that provides used clothing to the poor, $810,000 to a child-nutrition program.
Even death involves delays in Illinois. Funeral homes were waiting for $2.8 million in overdue reimbursement for burying indigent people.
Leigh Ann Stephens wrote a letter in August "asking, pleading" for $50,000 the state owed to the DuPage Center for Independent Living, where she is executive director. It was the third time in two years that she had sent a hardship letter warning the center, which helps people with disabilities live outside of costly nursing homes, would close if it wasn't paid.
The letter got results, for now, but it hasn't reversed cuts. Stephens has laid off one of eight employees, stopped opening on Fridays, cut back hours for part-time workers and reduced salaries 7.5 percent for herself and the other full-time worker. Like their clients, most of the employees are disabled, coping with blindness, loss of hearing, cerebral palsy and more.
This is not just a job for me. It's a way of life," Stephens said. "I can be angry. I can be sad. I can be so mad that I cry. I have thrown things across the room."
The delays have prompted relatively little public outcry, perhaps because so much attention has been focused on other budget battles or there is no one politician or agency to blame. It also reflects resignation from some vendors who no longer expect the corruption-plagued Illinois government to function properly.
"We've become accustomed to it. Being angry is not going to change it," said Suzanne Young, who has had a hard time getting the state to pay her business, Rockford Map Publishers.
Illinois leaders join in bemoaning the crisis but haven't been able to find a solution.
"God, how much more can our people take?" said Comptroller Judy Baar Topinka, a veteran politician responsible for trying to pay a seemingly infinite stack of bills with the finite amount of money approved by legislators and the governor.
"I really feel terrible every day that we can't pay these bills and people are going to be hanging out there for six months, seven months," Topinka said.
Delaying payments during tough times is nothing new for Illinois, though past delays were shorter and more limited. Under former Gov. Rod Blagojevich, big spending collided with a recession that sent state revenue spiraling downward. Illinois could no longer afford to pay its bills and the backlog exploded.
The backlog continued to grow even after Blagojevich was impeached and later convicted on corruption charges that included trying to sell or trade President Barack Obama's former U.S. Senate seat. He is awaiting sentencing.
Blagojevich's replacement, Democrat Pat Quinn, raised income taxes and trimmed spending, but that money was gobbled up by other needs, primarily rising pension costs. Under budget agreements with legislative leaders, all Democrats, bills continued to go unpaid.
As recently as June 2008, Illinois paid its bills seven days after state agencies finished the paperwork. A year later the delay had reached 99 days. It stood at 118 days in June of this year, the comptroller's office said.
The General Assembly has accepted the unpaid bills as an unpleasant necessity while Illinois claws its way out of deficits that once topped $13 billion. Lawmakers of both parties rejected Quinn's proposal to borrow money so the state can pay its overdue bills, although he says he'll try again when lawmakers meet later this month.
Instead, Illinois has turned businesses, charities and local governments into unwilling short-term lenders, using their money to operate government and disguise the depth of the state's financial problems.
Who gets paid sometimes depends on who complains the loudest or can get a politician to step in.
Illinois grants "expedited payment" to vendors who say they're on the verge of shutting down if they don't get their money, but the process lacks clear rules. The Illinois governor and comptroller each say the other makes the final decision on payments, and documents show a letter of support from a legislator — Republican or Democrat — can often shake loose money for vendors.
Many states use the budget gimmick of delaying payments when money is tight, but Illinois is seen as the worst.
"I think you win the championship," agreed Elizabeth Boris, an expert on nonprofit groups at the Urban Institute think tank.
California, another state notorious for budget troubles, had to issue IOUs to vendors at one point. But that was a temporary problem, not the way of life it has become in Illinois. California groups and businesses could get by with short-t
Funny how Wall Street was Obama's principle backer, along with the unions, in 2008. Funny also how MessNBC seems to forget that fact.
The liberals seem to either be willing to overlook that fact or don't want to believe the truth. Obama received more money from Wall Street and Big Banker types than any other President. Goldman Sachs was his number one contributor. The Obama administration also has plenty of Wall Street types working in his administration. These Wall Street and Big Banker types are mostly very liberal people. Thats what makes this protest kind of funny. We are 33 months into the Obama administration, and once again, some folks are willing to believe that this administration is not responsible for the economic stagnation.
Are the OccuDimwits still protesting? I noticed a dropoff in press coverage the last couple days. Although there was an interesting pic on Saturday on the front page of the Washington Post of a "protester" attacking a cop. I also saw a pic from this weekend of a Fleabagger trampling an American flag under his feet. You all see that one? Let's not forget the pic from last week when a dirty Fleabagger was captured on camera unloading his bowels on a police car.
Never saw any of this at a Tea Party Rally, did you? Silly question. Gotta love the lefties. Always presenting such a great image of themselves at their protests. Middle America is not impressed.
I think they are ALL liars.
Damage123," Drop in press coverage."..LOL
You got to get up to speed. The information highway is the new instant media.
Get connected...and I don't mean reading blogs on line.
www.occupywallst. then click livestream
Obama Lies
Funny how Wall Street was Obama's principle backer, along with the unions, in 2008. Funny also how MessNBC seems to forget that fact
Funny, how you forget Wall Street backs all candidates; but are not backing the President know because he won't kow tow to their greed.
Does the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection ring a bell?
Beverly,
And it yet it is even more funny when Obama doesn't return any of that "greed" money, right? Nothing but a two faced liar that stands there and belittles a company/industry, but yet at the same time has his hand out to take every stinking dollar. Very typical from Obama.
Beverly-The unique thing about obama's 2008 campaign was the huge amount of grassroots contributions. Wall street plays both sides of the fence. Unless I am wrong it was the GOP who de-regulated Wall street
The day every republican congressman is put in prison where he/she belongs, then that will be the day our Nation returns to sanity ansd stability, FOR ALL!
How brazen and openly crooked does a "party" need to be before the LAW defines it as a CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE?
Just monitor the t-GOP, and you'll have it: a full blown wall-street owned and elitist managed CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE, plain and simple as "999".
Wow Moonriver. You want to jail every Repub congressman? You're as bad as that communist, Skip from OK who wants to jail everyone who criticizes Obama. I take comfort in knowing that people like you and Skip are only a fringe minority. If your thinking existed outside your little circle, we'd be in danger of becoming like North Korea. But you people and your commie Fleabagger friends are just far-left twits. Never asked to the dance. Always picked last when the T-ball teams were being picked. Sad. really.
Is it the phase where serious people enter into serious discourse regarding serious issue that have serious effect on average Americans to come up with the best possible compromise and outcome? No, because the other guys are evil Nazi's who want to destroy the country as we know it.
I love the lead-in to this article as I must assume the writer wants to appear he is stricking a balance when it is unneeded. What do you mean "opponents try to define Romney as a creature of Wall Street"? He is a creature of Wall Street.
If Romney is the face of Wall Street, then Cain is the face of the Federal Reserve Bank!
I thought Cain was the face, er, puppet of the Koch brothers, who have been funding him since '05.
I 'd define Mittens as a Ken doll wearing an empty suit and flip-flops.
The occupy wall street events look a lot like the Vietnam war protests. They took quite awhile to make an impact in the end they were successful, but only after the right (Nixon) got tired and embraced their goals.
The main difference I see is that the occupy movement has taken off much bigger and faster than the 60's protests thanks mostly to the Internet. This is so big that it shows that there is no single person or organization (corporation) supporting the protests.
There was a protest in Bend OR this past weekend. That is signifigant in that Bend is one of the larger cities in the district of the only conservative in the Oregon congressional delegation.
hotdoxy,
You are so right. They are communicating at lighting speed. The protesters are in a global conversation of support. And at the same time ,in OWS they use the" people mic" . Each speaker talks and the crowd repeats their sentences. It is a thing of beauty. A simple way of total participation by the whole group. The artists have shown up. Videos are uploaded to u Tube constantly.
Observing all this on line this weekend, I felt very old. This is the younger generation being their own media. It is working...
Northstar you may call it a thing of beauty but I wouldn't. One person speaks and everyone repeats the phrase sounds more like Groupthink or Pavlov's Dogs (classical conditioning).
Richard, Each can ask to speak, and by repeating, they are listening and their point reaches everyone in a big crowd. It is beautiful is because it is so simple and low tech. Not Pavlov's dog. There is no one leader who is control. Their meetings are participatory and decisions are made by consensus.
ROMNEY HAS MORE FLIP FLOPS THAN THE SHOECHECK GIRL AT A BAGHDAD MOSQUE
'The TARP program... was nevertheless necessary to keep banks from collapsing in a cascade of failures.' [1]
'When government is... bailing out banks... we have every good reason to be alarmed.' [2]
'I like health care mandates. The mandates work.' [1]
'I think health care mandates are unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front.' [2]
'I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose.' [1]
'I never really called myself pro-choice.' [2]
'I believe the tax on capital gains should be zero.' [1]
'Capital gains taxes are a tax cut for fat cats.' [2]
'Roe v. Wade has gone too far.' [1]
'I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.' [2]
'I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.' [1]
'Ronald Reagan is... my hero.' [2]
'When I first heard of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, I thought it sounded awfully silly.' [1]
''Don't Ask, Don't Tell has worked well.' [2]
'If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing health care, then that will be a model for the nation.' [1]
'What works in one state may not be the answer for another.' [2]
'In Massachusetts...the costs of health care will be reduced.' [1]
'We were unable to deal with... health care costs in Massachusetts.' [2]
'I've been a hunter pretty much all my life.' [1]
'Any description of my being a hunter is an overstatement of capability.' [2]
'I'm going to take burdens off the back of the auto industry.' [1]
'Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.' [2]
'I would like to have campaign spending limits.' [1]
'The American people should be free to advocate for their candidates and their positions without limitations.' [2]
'I supported the assault weapon ban.' [1]
'I don't support any gun control legislation.' [2]
'Based on the numbers of American Muslims... I cannot see that a cabinet position would be justified.' [1]
'A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.' [2]
'I'm not in favor of privatizing Social Security or making cuts.' [1]
'Social Security's the easiest to privatize and that's because you can give people a personal account.' [2]
'I don't line up with the NRA.' [1]
'I'm a member of the [NRA].' [2]
'The all-Democrat stimulus that was passed in early 2009 will accelerate the timing of the start of the recovery...' [1]
'The all-Democrat stimulus passed in early 2009 has been a failure.' [2]
'I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.' [1]
'I did not see it with my own eyes.' [2]
'It does take a village to raise a child.' [1]
'It takes a family to raise a child.' [2]
'I'm a strong believer in stating your position and not wavering.' [1]
'I changed my position.' [2]
That is a classic post MikeMike
I was LMMAO
Democrats will fall steeply in 2012. Obama may win another term but he will be a toothless lion. Between the left blaming the right, Koch and Murdoch and the right blaming the left Soros and Seiu we may never see a rational political structure in this nation. Vote for the individual people. Let the parties kill themselves. Term limits is the only rational action that will save us.
Define Romney??????? We are still trying to figure you out. He has to shift focus to Romney.......he has no accomplishments to run on. Go out and tout your huge Stimulus and Obamacare......whoops!!!! that won't work either.
I would really like to see Romy as prez and Michele as VP just like their dream in the 1997 movie but none of this matters it will be Obama in 2012, we have a war in Africa to get started and he will lead the attack, from the white house of course.
All GOP candidates have vilified Occupy Wallstreet. They are all creatures of Wallstreet.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hate being lied to over and over again and I hate it even worse when the lies are blatent. It's like someone standing in the rain telling you to how dry the weather is or the guy holding the knife in your back telling you how much he loves you. It makes me sick
So, defining Romney is a silly premise. We can't define any politician because they will say anything and do anything to win. The only valid definition is that they are all liers and the most popular lier with the most money will win.
Cain? "We are America?" Are you kidding? But maybe he's not. Maybe he really believes the 1% is America and the rest of us are in the way.
Congratulations Ray. In 2008 then candidate Obama had the most money, so that makes him the most popular liar according to your definition in post #23. How true you are.
So Richard, you also objected to Bush at this point in the re-election campaign being "the most popular"? Right? Right? (at this point, his re-election record is still ahead of Obama's in 'having the most money' piled up for a second term.) Exactly what are you objecting to...that there are plenty of people willing to put their money where their mouth is to keep the right wing out of the Presidency or that you just don't have enough folks on theRepublican side willing to see one of these jokers try to win?
AP No I did not object to President Bush, certainly a better choice than Kerry. I was not objecting to anything, I was merely pointing out the craziness of his definition:
. We can't define any politician because they will say anything and do anything to win. The only valid definition is that they are all liers and the most popular lier with the most money will win.
This was in reference to Governor Romney, I just pointed out the obvious (ref:Obama). No objection, read what I posted and try not to read anything else in it.
goes the way the wind blows
Here's an example of the GOP lie.
They say they hate government and will defend our rights, but when a group exercises the right to peaceful assembly and free speech, (Occupy Wallstreet), the GOP turns them into dangerous Communists, class warfare freaks, or weak idiots.
I guess the Republican version of free speech is to defend your right to say what they tell you to say.
Nobody "turned them into" dangerous Communists, class warfare freaks or "useful idiots" as Lenin termed them - they are doing a pretty good job of that themselves. OWS is just the latest incarnation of the Anti-Globalists anarchist movement which has been festering for some time.
Don't get me wrong - I have no love for the shenanigans of Wall Street, either. But OWS should be protesting on Pennsylvania Avenue, not on Wall Street. Our Federal government has been in bed with the evil Wall Streeters for a long time now. They passed the laws that allowed this financial crisis to develop. How many Goldman Sachs executives does the President have on his staff? And that, my dear anarchists, is the ultimate hypocrisy. You are being played by our Community Organizer in Chief.
Ray in Florida Did you defend the people who protest in the Tea Party from the terrible attacks on them from CNN and every other liberal media outlet? You will find that the right is far more victimized by the left when it exercises its free speech rights than the little scrutiny that these guys are getting. If these guys get their wish, you will see how the left really wants to tank American wealth. Be careful what you wish for. These guys remind me of the blind Iranians protestors who got rid of the Shah only to have a real oppressive government ruin their lives.