Perhaps this gives Republicans a better idea of what independents might do.

They keep thinking the fact that independents are dissatisfied with President Obama translates into votes for them. If you can read anything at all into this, it most decidedly does not.

Ed Rendell's right.

Whatever their numbers...

They should go home and take a shower.

Fiesty,

First again with the swan song of defeat. Protest your hearts out, I hope you go and join them. I wish you had more to stand on than this.

We have plenty of recent poll numbers to suggest what independents might do.

If the election were held today, independents would vote against President Obama.

He's lost them.

He's got a year to woo them back.

Good luck.

I'm 55. In the top 5% bracket. Financially sound.

But I am going to the Occupy event in my town this weekend. First time I've ever gone to a protest event.

The people have lost their voice in our government to special interests and corporations who have bought the votes of OUR representatives.

Why did ALL Republicans vote against even debating the Jobs Bill? It can't be that they are actually against jobs for the American people. Something is seriously wrong when they don't even vote to DEBATE the jobs bill!!

"Whatever their numbers...

They should go home and take a shower"

Suppose they do. Do their political postions on the issues become more valid, less valid, or remain the same?

[Whatever their numbers...They should go home and take a shower.]

That's BRILLIANT!

You should be thanking them...

Feisty -

Just LOVE it when you come up with appropriate song lyrics!

Folk don't seem to get it. OWS is a generalized, de-centralized protest against the excessive influence of folk like Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers, of the influence-peddling manipulators like the Heritage Foundation, Americans for Tax Reform, the American Enterprise Institute, and the Cato Institute, against the money changers like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Manufacturers' Association, and the American Banking Association, which all have funded the lobbyists of Norquist's K Street Project and others.

The OWS is a movement protesting the "shadow government" that allowed Wall Street, the financial industry giants, and the politicains in their pockets to create the very mess this country and the world is in.

The OWS movement does indeed have some goals, in general - re-enact Glass-Steagall, break up the giant banks and financial organizations, enforce financial industry regulations, and get some action going in the beleaguered housing market. Regulate the derivatives market. Change the policies set during the Reagan years that led to the 475:1 ratio between executive pay and average workers' pay. Ditto with the insane bonus system.

In other words, take ACION, take it now, to address social and economic injustice and again include all the people of America in her hopes and prosperity.

lol, mouse...

Like a moth to the flame.

You can't resist.

You keep me coming back to First Read.

Anyway...

Thanks.

It really wasn't my best work...

Still...glad you thought it was "BRILLIANT!"

That tells me I need to work harder...

FR: Clearly, the movement appears to be growing.

Clearly.

Diane Sawyer: Occupy protestors have spread to more than 1000 countries.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=131eNW8-yik

Maybe we can get Feisty to name them all.

Give a hand to OWS. Just like Cantor is occupying the GOP/TP/Grover MOB sit in the Congress, Let us occupy every space we see even on this blog. This is JUST fight, fight it.

Mixed douc$bag.

You no likey Mickey and call him all kindsa names..Seems like most connie gink pusses on FR..You have a full time job trolling as opposed to holding a real job! Right? And why do you always write in sentences? Can you put together a coherent thought or idea? Go figure!

So...you and the mouse are pals.

I'm not surprised, TP

Let's see...

What else is "TP" an acronym for, and does it suit the subject?

I've got it!

Like "douc$bag", it involves personal hygiene.

Can you guess, TP?

And respond coherently?

OK.

Simply respond in your own fashion...

OCCUPY will be everywhere. Get use to it. WE have a voice. Cause its gonna get LOUD!! Its time to let our voices be heard. Does your Senator or Congressman have a local office, OCCUPY that. They will hear you than!!!!!!

Torpedo:

Or you can do what I do. Ignore the MB troll. He craves attention. He will stalk you and harass you. His only goal is to provoke. To respond is to play his game.

The Broken Contract: Inequality and American Decline:

Summary:

Like an odorless gas, economic inequality pervades every corner of the United States and saps the strength of its democracy. Over the past three decades, Washington has consistently favored the rich -- and the more wealth accumulates in a few hands at the top, the more influence and favor the rich acquire, making it easier for them and their political allies to cast off restraint without paying a social price.

Throw the treasonous Teapublicans out. Obama/Biden - 2012!

Mixed...Where did TP come from?...You must be thinking of a certain part of your anatomy. Because that is clearly where you have your big head inserted. Sorry but my moniker is Torpedoyou or Torp or Torpedo. Take your pick like my other stalker Spanky the Faux lawyer.

Feel free to stagger into my wake anytime!

TorpedoYou -- I suspect Bag Boy confused you with me in his stalking and harassing tactics. Ya gotta keep the trolling straight Bag Boy. Step off, or like the punk you're gonna get spanked.

TP and Torpedo:

My apologies Torpedo. I meant that post for True Patriot. Nonetheless, a word to the wise.

I rarely use the ignore button, it's almost as easy to simply scroll past drivel. However, I am following the advice of Skip Nicholson more than in the past. I'm using that button, and for good reason. JoAnna Smith never met a lie she didn't like. Spanky says he is an attorney, but when comparing the quality of his writing with that of Anna Molly who is TRULY an attorney, it is impossible to take him seriously. Kirk has an impenetrable skull. Mixed Bag is a provocateur. Why waste your time?

It is very, very important that we keep crushing the lies of the right wing. You will not change their minds - how do you change what isn't there? - of the extremists. However, you may provide that new perspective that will convince an on-the-fence voter to vote Democrat rather than choose suicide by Republican.

Hey David - you forgot to mention DF - the phony 'voice of reason' who has a propensity for threatening physical violence... ;o)

Other then that - I agree 110%

TP,

[You have a full time job trolling as opposed to holding a real job!]

MB is retired...you'd figure he'd find something worthwhile to do in retirement instead of hanging out in FR with all the "libbies"...

...maybe he's not "conservative" enough for Fox Nation or The Blaze...huh...

OWS is grass root. Tea party never was (koch bros). Republican moniker = polarize the masses to the point of stupid. We need republican leadership like we need a hole in our heads.

I've seen no sign of "Occupy Wallstreet" except recollections on cable news. However there's an organizing meeting in my office building for a rally in my town, I saw a notice on a taped up piece of paper. I saw some hippies using the elevator (the meeting's on the 2nd floor).

Whoop-dee-do.

Whatever these people stand for is the same as last year. It's a free country and amusing.

I don't understand why NY mag bothered to survey if they weren't going to complete the picture. They ask for opinions on Obama and whether they voted last time. Would have been interesting to know how they judge Congress, GOP, TP. Will they vote in 12?

That is exactly why Obama will be re-elected because to republicans OWS protesters and 15 million do nothing liberals and their wives and kids going belly up is whoop de doo amusing. A perfect sh!t storm is in the formation for republicans, offer up any candidate you wish for the republican nominee, he will be politically sacrificed by his own party members in Congress.

Thank You Colorado Crenshaw, something is very wrong when not one republican votes to debate, they might be Republicans but they have a duty to represent all the people in their districts.

"Mayor Bloomberg wants the OWS protesters to evacuate the park so it can be cleaned up. What does that tell you?

The Tea Party never needs a cleaning crew.

Hmmmmm........wonder why there's a difference??"

Well, for one thing, the TPers only got bussed in for the day whenever they rally. They had to hurry home to watch that Golden Girls marathon.

Most of them looked like the golden girls.

Why did ALL Republicans vote against even debating the Jobs Bill? It can't be that they are actually against jobs for the American people. Something is seriously wrong when they don't even vote to DEBATE the jobs bill!!

~Colorado Crenshaw

First off, government doesn't create jobs the private sector does. If he really wanted to create jobs his bill would deregulate (regulation tends to only hurt small businesses, which account for 70% of jobs), possibly even getting rid of the fed which is, in essence, a literal job killer.

Regardless, the economy is about tradeoffs, and one thing politicians rarely if ever do (on both sides of the aisle) is take tradeoffs into consideration and thus each new bill tends to make things worse (whether it be immediate or further along down the road). This humongous unpaid for bill should not just be rushed out for political points.

If you've been really paying attention to the news you would know that many Democrats don't support the bill and Republicans have been willing to go through the bill, piece by piece, and pass things in it that they do support in increments. The stimulus bill was passed without anyone really knowing what was in it, and unemployment actually has increased ever since.

It is politicians who have always screwed us over. It is government interference that fueled this crash, and the government can't get us out of it. The sum total of knowledge of politicians and intellectuals (the ones that repeatedly force social experiments on us that inevitably fail) isn't even 1% of the total knowledge in the world. To think that a rushed, currently, all or nothing bill made by elites who don't have a clue about anything will be a good thing is ludicrous.

Well, for one thing, the TPers only got bussed in for the day whenever they rally. They had to hurry home to watch that Golden Girls marathon.

~ DrDrGimmetheNews

Don't give me that, a lot of the tea partyers had jobs, and all of them had responsibilities. A lot of the people occupying Wall Street are young, with few responsibilities and those they do have they are ignoring (like working to pay off college debt). I watched a video on YouTube where a girl who looked to be nineteen or twenty brag about how she quit her job and traveled however many hundreds of miles to camp at Wall Street. After the interviewer began to ask her some questions it became quite clear she wasn't even sure what she was protesting.

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

I was surprised by the title of this article. But no matter what poll I am looking at, I always try to find the questions actually asked. I found this article which highlights the obvious flaws of the poll (and there are links to the original poll questions in the article as well).

One of the questions not outlined in the article was this: "AT THIS POINT, IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO (CUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S SPENDING) OR (SPEND MORE MONEY TO HELP STIMULATE THE ECONOMY AND CREATE JOBS)?" That question takes it as axiomatic that federal spending stimulates the economy and creates jobs, which it almost never does. If you had little or no knowledge of how the economy works, or how the government consistently adversely affects the economy you would most likely choose the second. And the painful truth is, that most Americans don't, whether they have a GED, or a Doctorate.

Not everything the Occupy Wall Street protesters protest is foolish. I highly doubt any average American actually supports the GM and bank bailouts. It is becoming common knowledge that the fed is bad. When I took my first economics class I just couldn't wrap my mind around why we abandoned the gold standard, it fundamentally just didn't make sense to me - I still can't. Big corporations and the government canoodling with each other is also bad.

However, their anger is directed in the wrong direction. It is not the rich are to blame, it is the government who sticks its hand's into the economy when it shouldn't, passing legislation that only benefits corporations and hurts the economy and strangles competition, caving to labor unions ridiculous demands which haven't done anything good for anybody in a long time, and passing unsustainable social welfare programs for morality points.

They shouldn't be camped outside of Wall Street, they should be in front of the White House, but sadly what they want is more government intervention, welfare, etc. will only do harm in the mid to long run. As it stands, I can not support this movement as it stands, and probably never will. Anything good about it is now unsalvagable.

" I watched a video on YouTube.."

That explains a lot about your views when you reveal where you get your information.

I was watching a report on PBS News several months ago, The reporter asked a group of small business owners if it was regulations that were hurting them, they all said "NO!!" it was the BANKS that was hurting them, they WILL NOT cut loose the money they NEED to EXPAND their businesses, so they CAN HIRE NEW EMPLOYEES.

Govt does create jobs indirectly. Govt provide grants, demands for goods and services. In anothers, our govt is the last resort customer. If the public does not consume our economy will come to a halt (0 or negative growth). Hence, our govt will mandate services and goods.... Those services and goods may be new roads, update bridges, grants on energy studies, and military equipment. Unfortunately, a military built up on the likes of bombs is a one way street where other areas will have multiple uses.

Federal govt does create jobs directly, but very little and very in-effectively, because it does not have any scaleable chain of command/structure (like those in more socialistic countries or even communistic countries). During the last round, most of the public (state) jobs were saved due to the Federal stimulus jobs. Those jobs included teaching jobs, police, firefighters, and etc. So shame on those who are still criticizing that the stimulous did not work. If that was the case, then we would have been in so much more deep doodoo at the start of the school year, the TX fire fighting, the local policing and etc state jobs. Of course your favor local govenors failed to tell you such......

What's with the title??? Is this FOX NEWS??? This is not about popularity contest! This is about our country and our people's well being!!!

The protesting groups are not exclusive of each other. There are plenty of topics of cross over between the protestors and the Tea Party! If you look at the last poll.... it should be clear that the protesters included a large cross section of our population (not just the Democrats);

"Rank yourself on the following Scale of Liberalism:"

• Not liberal at all: 6 (6%)
• Liberal but fairly mainstream (i.e., Barack Obama): 3 (3%)
• Strongly liberal (i.e., Paul Krugman): 12 (12%)
• Fed up with Democrats, believe country needs overhaul (i.e., Ralph Nader): 41 (41%)
• Convinced the U.S. government is no better than, say, Al Qaeda (i.e., Noam Chomsky): 34 (34%)

That means 75% of the protesters are irritated with our politicians.

Who did they poll? There is no way those numbers weren't made up. OWS is more popular than the Tea Party? What a joke. Do you two reporters really believe that? These "protests" are quickly becoming nothing more than drunken riots, by a bunch of thugs out for freebies. Why don't NBC report what is really happening?

Maybe you should try to educate yourself someplace besides Glenn Beck. http://occupywallst.org/

What's really happening? "Too big to fail" has never been dealt with, the unified GOP and some Democrats refuse to deal with it. The financial sector continues to play with the dynamite of unregulated derivatives, the unified GOP and some Democrats refuse to deal with it. The finance industry has become so greedy in their practices that they "earn" nearly 1/3 of ALL corporate profits, draining the ability of other sectors of the economy to operate profitably, grow, and innovate. The unified GOP and some Democrats refuse to deal with it. Poverty has reached the highest level in decades, the unified GOP blames the poor. Corporate America is dramatically creating a new class of Robber Barons while destroying the jobs of more and more average Americans, the unified GOP and some democrats applaud this destruction of middle America.

The Tea Party turned out to be nothing more than a rebranding of the radical Conservatism that stands for all the negative forces listed above. Why wouldn't people be protesting? Why WOULDN'T OWS be more popular than the Tea Party?

Amusing, look at the numbers and half the people polled 49% had no opinion. But somehow that is good news for the pollsters, meaning of the ones who had an opinion some were really supportive of the OWS 'movement' and many were ambivalent but still disliked the teaparty, so essentially, the numbers are a tad skewed.

John B. Keep drinking your koolaid. I don't get my info from Beck, but I'm not dumb enough to believe anything MSNBC reports on. They are so skewed to the left even you lefties can see it. I think.

If you believed what you were saying, Skiddy, you'd actually address ANYTHING I said above instead of just throwing out the "koolaid" cliche and the standard Conservative talking point about the Liberal media. Nothing from you but boilerplate.

Saw an article that if it weren't for additional opportunies in the health care field, due to the Health Care Act, unemployment would be about 10.3% ? ?

Go Occupy!!

Down with Tea Party!!

Mixed Bag: yes we do know where the Independents are going (hint: you and Mr. Romney will not be happy.)

I haven't been around since early this morning, DBO, but you said exactly what I was thinking. Well done.

"What happened to the other 20%?"

- teabaggers. No one could understand the answers they babbled....

Hey Candice,

What happened to the other 20%?

7% were in line for free pizza.

6% were in line for free Ben & Jerry's.

5% were in line for free condoms.

2% were trying to trying to show others how to poach wi-fi.

BTW - 34% felt the US government is no better than A Qaeda!

The missing 20%, according to the survey never heard anything about OWS.

The other 20% were the network pollsters concerned about the most recent poll numbers...isn't that right Chuck Todd.

Hi, Dennis,

Then it should have been reported that 37% support, 18% oppose and 45% of the people have no opinion. Of course, that would mean the majority don't give the OWS folks the time of day and would sort of mess up the point of the story.

Hi, Bob.

Candice: What happened to the other 20%?

As our President says: "It's just math."

And maybe that's why they're journalists.

Hi Candice,

Perhaps but there were 4 categories: Support, Oppose, No opinion & Never heard of it. See Question #30.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/October_Poll.pdf

Excerpts from The Fight for Real Democracy at the Heart of Occupy Wall Street:

Demonstrations under the banner of Occupy Wall Street resonate with so many people not only because they give voice to a widespread sense of economic injustice but also, and perhaps more important, because they express political grievances and aspirations. As protests have spread from Lower Manhattan to cities and towns across the country, they have made clear that indignation against corporate greed and economic inequality is real and deep. But at least equally important is the protest against the lack -- or failure -- of political representation. It is not so much a question of whether this or that politician, or this or that party, is ineffective or corrupt (although that, too, is true) but whether the representational political system more generally is inadequate. This protest movement could, and perhaps must, transform into a genuine, democratic constituent process.

There is already talk of an Occupy Together caucus in the Democrat Party. But the real story here is the Teapublicans and their obstructionism and pledgeto Norquist--The majority of Americans are getting fed up with these douche-bags playing politics on behalf of their rich campaign donors (Scott Brown).

Dennis,

Thanks for the link. Lots of interesting stuff in there.

The other 20% was "haven't seen/read/heard or not sure." So there's two categories for "no opinion" and "not sure" -( which is the same as "no opinion").....meaning 45 of the people don't give much thought to the Occupy Wall Street folks.

Candice,
I see that differently – If you haven't heard about it you can't have an opinion. That is different than having no opinion if you know about it.

Candice -- Some people are aware of the Occupy movement but are with-holding judgement until more time passes, while others, for example low-information voters, have no clue what's going on because they never watch the news. That's the difference, and it's legitimate because who cares what low-information voters think? I say we go back to obsessing over semantics of a democracy versus a republic...Ha.

there are just an abundance of problems to be addressed. OWS doesn't stand for 1 or 2 problems, just that there are so many and that it has gotten out of control and needs to be brought to the attention of the people as well as our elected officials, who are doing an admiral job of ignoring them when they should be supporting them. But that would be against their bankster friends interest now wouldn't it? The people that have no clue because they don't watch the news are probably without TV, you know that LUXURY that low income people shouldn't have if they are truly poor. Remember that on faux news?, oh and they shouldn't have refrigerators either. People read too much into these poles. It all depends on how the question is asked and who is asked. I, for one am distressed when they poll 500 and then say it speaks for the "whole" country. Same here, OWS is across the country so what is said in one area doesn't apply to another. Get my drift?

There is a new Super PAC whose sole purpose is to see the Republicans maintain the House.

Sounds like the last two years of Bush administration. The Democrats made sure the economy tanks, and people lose jobs so that they can have control of the house, the senate, and the WH. Heck, they did not even do the budget. Then spent the first year shoving Obamacare down the throats of the majority of the American people. Instead on prioritizing the economy and jobs.

They are going to spend millions and millions and millions to see that nothing is done for another two years.

95% of the top 50 world's richest are democrats. Top 10 are all democrats.

95% of Hollywood's richest are democrats. Big DNC donors.

75% of lobbyists are millionaires if not billionaires and supports democrats.

Wall street donated millions more to DNC than to the Republicans.

Healthcare insurance companies gave millions to DNC more than to the Republicans.

Tell me who's got millions or billions to spend...

W -- Your are right about one thing...

Most multi-millionaires live in the state of California, many of whom are Democrats and support having their taxes raised (from Silicon Valley to Hollywood). Barbara Boxer, a representative of California was among those who voted for the Job Act to move forward.

Whereas in a state like Nebraska, there are few if any multi-millionaires, yet Ben Nelson was among those who voted against the Job Act moving forward. Who else in the list of 'No' votes (Teapublicans all of whom voted 'No') come from a state in which very few if any of their constituents would be affected by a surtax on multi-millionaires versus the thousands of jobs they voted against?

The names of all those who voted 'No' was displayed last night on the news (real news, not FAUX Noise). Let's hope all those constituents who did not get all those thousands of jobs in their state will vote 'No' against these unpatriotic Teapublicans in 2012.

"95% of the top 50 world's richest are democrats. Top 10 are all democrats"

How stupid do you think we are?

The Republicans (Eric Cantor) cried (literally) to the American People begging for another chance to do right, we messed up, we understand now, and if you give us another chance, we will play fair with all our toys. The Americans believed them like a mother does her cute little boy when he makes her a promise. The first day of BUSINESS the words that flowed from Mitch McCon's lips....." were not "......, "OKAY FOLKS, THEY VOTED US INTO POWER, LET US GET TO WORK AND PASS SOME BILLS TO GET AMERICA BACK TO WORK", ....... the words that flowed from his lips were..... " THE AMERICANS VOTE BACK INTO POWER NOW OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE OBAMA IS A ONE TERM PRESIDENT!!!!!"

Pat, Republicans in Congress don't care at all about unemployed or under employed people, or what's good for America, they only care about making sure the economy continues to tank so they can TRY to blame it on Obama and Democrats in Congress.

OWS has gone worldwide in less than a month because people worldwide understand that the wealthy and powerful run and control THEIR country.

The Tea Party has quickly faded away and Americans now understand EXACTLY who they are, right wing EXTREMIST. The Tea Party has done a great job of making Independents who decide national elections run far away from the GOP in droves.

Democrats will regain control of the House because of OWS and especially because of the Tea Party.

"It's called adhering to the terms of a contract."

Maybe you should consult the resident 'counselor', and ask him about 'ammendments' or 'addendums'.

Candice it's called a fillibuster when the other side won't allow a majority vote to come to the floor. What kind of BS are you trying to pass by us. The Republicans were afraid that if they allowed a vote, the bill would have passed and you know that the single most important thing to Republicans before even one job can be created, is to make President Obama, "A-One-Term-President". Should we all sing-song this phrase?

No, Laurie. The filibuster is a parliamentary procedure that allows a single person to extend a debate indefinitely, and thereby attempt to prevent a vote. Seems to me the term "filibuster" has suddenly changed it's definition and is now used to describe a situation the the majority leader can't come up with 60 votes. Using the new definition makes it sound obstructionist - when in fact, the bill is too weak or unpopular to garner needed support.

Both Democrats and Republicans knew the bill wouldn't pass from the git-go.

It was Harry Reid in this instance who invoked a "constitutional option" that cut off additional debate. Don't you remember when Mr. McConnell got so upset when Harry cut off debate?

Candice you need to do a little bit more reading before you insert your foot in mouth. the Vote was 50 for and 49 against. But do to the filibuster of the Republicans it takes 60 votes to pass the bill. That would take responsible republicans to also vote for the bill but they all signed an oath to an anti american named Grover norquist because he is the president of the US, or God or some other form of poo. Someone got a match need to stomp on some poo

Tis,

The vote was 50 to 49, with 2 Democrats, Nelson and Tester, voting against. Isn't that what I said? But then Harry switched his vote to no, making it 50 against and 49 for. No one filibustered in the actual definition of the term. Harry just dropped it - to reconsider it later.

Correct, Harry switched his vote so the bill could be brought back up later, thus the 50 votes instead of a simple majority vote of 51 because of abuse of the filibuster. That was a smart thing for him to do, and so? The bill was still blocked by a minority. Tyranny of the minority--You don't have a problem with this?!

True Patriot,

Please explain this to me. Harry used the "nuclear option" to cut off debate, and brought the bill to the floor for a vote. The bill passed by one vote. The Republicans couldn't filibuster because further debate was disallowed. With the threat and possibility of a filibuster out of the picture, why didn't Harry stick with the simple majority to move the bill forward?

I think Harry dropped it because it was a bad bill.

Candice -- I suspect you will think what you want no matter the response to your posts. The bottom line is 98% of Democrats voted for the Jobs Act and 0%, that's ZERO percent of Teapublicans voted for the Jobs Act to move forward for debate. That's all that matters, not the usual petty distractions conservatives are so good at. Moving on...

Well, True Patriot. I was actually looking for an explanation on that. Since you appeared to be better versed on how the mechanics of the Senate and Congress work, I thought I'd ask you. That's okay. Move along. Catch you maybe another time.

Damn.

I'm top 11% and usually vote (D).

Does this mean I should be voting (R) instead? ^.^

"Never tell me the odds." - Han Solo

And to the inevitable 'you don't know what it's like'...

I spent 3 months looking for work in 2009. At no point did I jump the UI wagon, I went to temp agencies at 5am to make minimum wage digging trenches and did my job-hunting at night.

"Does this mean I should be voting (R) instead? ^.^"

You should be voting for whoever you honestly believe will be working in the best interests of the survival and health of these United States of America.

Right now, that seem to exclude the (R)'s.

So do tell..Tek..Just were do you stand?

I stand on the side of cold logic and reason.

I just make fun of it, while standly firmly in the middle.

Obama is a DINO as far as I'm concerned. If I wanted a republican to come in, sign free trade agreements, keep guantanamo open, bailout industries, and keep the wars going...I would've voted for a republican.

I'm on the side of common sense, fiscal responsibility and social liberalism.

I like math, engineering and physics. This, sadly, means I'm inexorably drawn towards economics and finance...which pulls me into these damned political discussions.

I'm a computer scientist by hobby and profession, with some physics in there for kicks.

So, to be blunt, I'm 100% for personal freedoms but I'm also for 100% self-reliance.

I think the government IS beholden to it's citizens on macro-economic concerns. Military and Healthcare being the two primaries, and I think all taxes should be put towards those first in order to provide it to everyone as a service.

I also think that local authorities govern regions best, and thus will always move to decentralization of regulation.

As they say, reality has a liberal bias.

Nice tek how about a low brow answer to the question or are you still trying to impress us with your IQ. Or did you just vote for Paul.

Ah.

I like to think of myself as moderate.

So Tek that means we are kinda stuck with Obama..As I said before I will most likely hold my nose in and vote for him in 2012. Third party is not viable this time around but maybe in 2014

Tek -- Also keep in mind the richest 1% who are Republican are in the Oil Industry per Ben Stein. Look at the Koch brothers, the Bush dynasty, Cheney, etc., they are all in the oil industry, and if not in the oil industry they are in the propaganda industry (Murdoch) that promotes the oil industry.

The bulk of the richest 1% are democrats.

It's called enlightened self-interest.

If I pay 5% more in taxes, I can get 10% more profit because people will have more money to spend.

You should be worrying about the top 15%, not the top 1%. the top 15% are republican. The top 1% trend Democrat.

Just an fyi.

Where's your proof, teknishan? There IS, on the other hand, plenty of proof that higher incomes trend Republican and Conservative;

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.frumforum.com/are-the-rich-more-republican

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#USH00p1

Here's some information that's particularly telling about the wealthy trending Republican;

http://andrewgelman.com/2009/08/who_are_the_lib/

Teabaggers say, "Facts??? We don't need no stinking facts! Libruls bad! Wars good! Big banks good! Obama socialist! Drill baby drill! And whatever else the Koch brothers tell us to say!"

teknistan: you DO know that obama is legally prohibited from closing Guananamo thanks to a Congressional bill? IF you're going to insist he's really a Republican, at least learn the facts.

cowboy17....

those idiots that spit on the soldiers were the same lefty types that are on wall street -- anti capalists....

study up

Rob in ma-3189632

As a Blue star Dad and Marine..With a kid just returned from FOB Lagman in the AFG..You really need to see a doc to cure that bad case of 'cranial rectal insertion disease." Tell me Puss: Did you ever serve your country?

You are beneath contempt!

Please report to your nearest USMC recruiting station and sign up you cowardly puke!

Marine huh?

Sounds like a little ptsd. You should have that checked out.

God bless

Nah too many years ago to concern you puss. You sound like you need a history and economics lesson though.

TorpedoYou -- Thank you for your service. I have three members of my family currently serving. These right-wing jack-wagons think all they need to do is wear a flag pin and that makes them real Americans.

Forrest, not one single Republican voted for it, along with a couple of Democrats. I didn't hear anyone say "it is us against you" to any of the unemployed or protesters. In fact, I believe it's the President who wanted all or nothing. Rather, I believe there are parts of the bill the Republicans would vote for. They've been saying for awhile, they'd go for it in pieces. I believe they, along with a lot of us, don't trust that a Stimulus II structured the way it was would do any better than the first.

And the main sticking point was how to pay for it. The Democrats had major problems with the "pay for's" as well. I think many of them only voted for it because they knew it would fail. Sort of a nonconsequential vote.

Nobody, except for the President alone, thinks raising taxes in a fragile economy is a good idea.

Forrest,

Check out occupywallst.org its not only republicans, its also democrats and Obama.

Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, Republican or Democrat, vote them out. Not all Politicans are bad, but enough are. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.

occupywallst.org

The protesters are a cross section Thetotas, plenty of former republican voters lost their jobs and are now losing everything, it includes people of all ages as well. Republicans will bear the brunt of their anger Candace because as I said they voted to a man against the bill, does not matter why, a no is a no, they would not even debate it. Republican governors are taking away collective bargaining rights people have had for 70 years, they are laying off government workers, because they will not collect taxes, or take stimulus money like they did for two years to pay their bills. Republican politicians even add insult to injury by portraying government employees as useless overpaid slackers, but they themselves live quit well off the system. The bottom line is they have made themselves the focal point of a lot of anger and frustration by people who are desperately trying to hang on 15 million + people, with kids to feed, they have not done one thing to help them. They have been totally callous in there approach, they won a lot of elections on the issue of jobs, if they don't produce some jobs they will lose a lot of elections on the same issue. Debt is a problem, you concerns are not invalid, but republicans seem perfectly willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater, they never compromise, they have not done anything to let these people see a little light at the end of a dark horrifying tunnel, nothing, they are running out of time, right wrong or indifferent they will be punished, and so will the republican candidate for president, because they just preach more of the same plan, which is basically to do nothing, that is not helping over 15 million American citizens who are losing everything they ever had. They are going to take it out on somebody and Congress just sealed the deal that it won't be Obama, the do nothing Congress is his get out of jail free card, they won't let him have any success and now they can no longer blame him, that his plan did not work, because they would not even consider giving it a try. They Waterlooed themselves this time. Obama will be re-elected.

@ Thetotas You have spoke in the past about being in a union but not trusting them, I don't know who the them is, but a union is just a group of people, if you mean officers or representatives pf your Local, then please go to your union meetings get involved ask them the tough questions. You can make it a better union, you can elect better officers, or run for a position of responsibility yourself, if you see a problem just don't ignore it, jump in and try to fix it. I tell you one thing it will be easier than trying to fix our government.

You All, keep writing that the PRESIDENT gave the Republicans an "ALL OR NOTHING", "IF" you look back on interviews given by Eric Cantor, John "cry baby" Bonhner, and Mitch McConnell. They have been pushing this PRESIDENT with "ALL OR NOTHING", and Obama gives in everytime. I would LOVE to see this PRESIDENT go NIG*ER on them for once, and stomp a mudhole in their azz, in fact I think, I would cry with PRIDE. Like I did when ROCKY pull himself off the mat and yell "ADRIAN!!!!!!" and won the fight for the American People. YES!! I am hoping to see my Black Italian Fighter OBAMA pull himself off the mat and give that yell for the American People and win the fight. OBAMA IS STILL MY WINNING HORSE.

Again rob,spoken like a true unamerican. Remind me again what branch you served in. The vietnam ? really ?? Spend some of your trust fund on a brain.

"The occupy wall street movement will hopefully last for a while. It's the best thing possible for the republicans."

Wow- right straight from Hannity's radio program. But that's ok, Rob. I do believe you will see your wish come true.

Rest easy Rob they are not going anywhere they will be here, they can't leave. As far as it being the best thing possible for Republicans I doubt that very seriously.

I love those signs they are walking around with. "I want free college tuition" and what not. What I haven't seen at the occupy wallstreet is an American Flag. This isn't a movement, this was setup by the left back in June when they bought the occupywallst*org domain name.

"Keep going folks! I just hope they don't all disappear when the first frost comes around!"

They will stick around and keep each other warm. If the seperate they will freeze as many of them don't have homes anyway.

sorry drive by....not a hannity fan. o'reilly's pretty good though. he knocked smily and that havard professor around pretty good the other night. good tv!

Rob>>>Yah I remember...Especially the Vets against the War...Why know have an all volunteer armed forces. But you knew that didn't you?

"What I haven't seen at the occupy wallstreet is an American Flag."

Then you haven't been paying attention. See here: http://www.internationalist.org/owsamericanflags1109-10.html

My favorite OWS sign: "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

My favorite is "Demand Aggregate Demand."

It goes directly to the fact that Supply Siders have zero answers for our current economy.

Only thing I've seen with an American flag at OWS, a picture of some nitwit crapping on it. This is NOT the way to garner support.

Geez---you do remember what actually happened in Vietnam---(hint: we did NOT win and it became the poster child for an endless quagmire of a war Americans did not want)-- You use this as an example of what...the POSITIVE legacy of Richard Nixon??? Did I actually read someone on here call OWS protestors "hippie's"????? OMG...

"This in nothing but a larger gathering of the warts on the ass of American society."

No, Tracy, I believe those are still ensconced safely and comfortably up in those office buildlings....

They are no longer there and yes I know that some of these protesters managed to get into the Mickey Leland Federal building here in Houston for a quick stay but were promptly arrested. Had to scub the floors three times because of the stench I heard after they were removed.

Now they're planning to protest at the koch brothers house...

how would it play if the teaparty folks showed up at barney franks pad or nancy pelosi's palacial estate.

Imagine the outcry....it would be like that spitting incident that the dems made up even though there were cameras everywhere

First they ignore you and then they ridicule you.

[Now they're planning to protest at the koch brothers house...]

The same Koch Brothers that own Koch Industries? The same Koch Industries that is being investigated for ILLEGAL dealings with Iran? The same Koch Industries that is being investigated for dumping toxic waste and poisoning children?

Ohhhh....THOSE Koch Brothers....

They say a movement must instill fear to affect on policy. Watch out Glenn Beck, they are going to drag you from your mansion and kill you! LOL The fear of being "primaried" from the left is more interesting...

Tracy: well look out you poor misguided thing...that movement is about to get a whole, lot larger...

you think the the 60's was purely an anti war movement?

do you remember the term anti establishment?

yikes....and who needs schooling?

Sue...ever hear of the tea party?

Sue

I'm just wondering where you got all your information. Don't tell me.....Faux News! Do you remember the Koch Bros. dragging all those people dressed up like Paul Revere and Betsy Ross to the those teaparty demonstrations, carrying around those offensive signs? All a bunch of losers, those teaparty folk were. Still are. Of course OWS is more popular....the American people have had quite enough of the Republicans destroying our country.

Wow Sue you are truly scaring everyone.....HAPPY HALLOWEEN !!

Sue -- Guess who was caught on video walking through the Occupy crowd with a couple of fake prostitutes? James O'Keefe--Seriously, it's documented on tape. I can't wait to see what propaganda he is going to release for you.

They couldn't afford them much less know which is the dangerous end.

Ha don't kid yourself almost everybody in America has guns, and for every person that don't there is a guy that has 10 or 15 different firearms. Hell I can now bring my gun more places than my cigarettes!

We Liberals have our guns and other toys, and the toys to please the Republican Christian Women (smile/wink) call me, BUT we're not brain dead to let you see. We enjoy the element of SURPRISE!

I would love to see some statistical employment information about those who attend the Tea Party rallies vs. those who attend the Occupy Wall Street protests.

The coming republican tsunami ??? You mean the republicans in congress with a 13% APPROVAL RATING and a collection of presidential candidates who are trailing a president facing a 9% unemployment rate. With the economy in the shape it's in Obama's numbers should be in the low 20s, like Bush's were. Yet in a head to head match up he wins over every announced Republican candidate. That's the condition of the 21st century Republican party.

I think they should be tagged like birds or animals and then tracked.

10 years from now some of themwill be pulling down $500K as hedge fund managers or day trading.

Excerpts from Why Occupy Wall Street is Not the Tea Party of the Left:

“…the civil rights movement is not a precedent one can use to understand Occupy Wall Street. Neither is this movement a Tea Party of the left, as some observers have suggested. Occupy Wall Street is a movement of a completely new type.

Both the civil rights movement and the Tea Party were created to serve specific constituencies -- in the first case, African Americans suffering under the burden of Jim Crow in the South; in the second, older, white middle-class Americans who saw themselves as victims of an overweening federal government. "This is about the people who work hard to bring home the bacon and want to keep it", one Tea Party group declared. In contrast, Occupy Wall Street puts forward few policy proposals and has a shifting configuration of supporters as it spreads across the country. The closest its activists have come to issuing a clear statement of aims was in the "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City," posted on September 30th. "As one people, united," the declaration proclaimed, "we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors." That is hardly a policy platform. But policy platforms are not the point of this new kind of movement.

Charles Tilly, the late Columbia sociologist, divided movements into three types, based on the policies they demand, the constituencies they claim to represent, and the identities they are trying to construct. Both the civil rights movement and the Tea Party combined the first and second goals. Occupy Wall Street is what we might call a "we are here" movement. Asking its activists what they want, as some pundits have demanded, is beside the point. Participants are neither disillusioned Obama supporters, nor or a "mob," as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor cynically described them. By their presence, they are saying only, "Recognize us!"

…The parallels between the 1930s and today are striking. The economy has plunged to historic levels of unemployment and hardship. The economic crisis again is global, forces of obscurantism and reaction are afoot (think of the anti-immigrant legislation recently passed in Arizona and Alabama), and policymakers are demanding savage spending reductions. The Supreme Court, which, in the 1930s, was unaware that the judicial doctrines of the nineteenth century were hopelessly inadequate for the economic problems of the early twentieth, today has returned to a doctrine of originalism, which seeks to go even further back -- now to the 18th century.

I love that the right-wing is under-estimating the Occupy Wall Street rallies--or are they soiling their britches just about now?

so robby, you're spewing all this from home?what shift do work,or is this what you do on wall st. all day? You never did tell us how you served,not counting the summer job working at the folk's country club. We are sensitive to people who don't appreciate this country. This is the party whose Presidential candidates,(every single one) stood by while their supporters cheered the death of a cancer victim,booed a Marine in a war zone,(a war they started),and cheered the execution of human beings,while claiming to be PRO life. GAME,SET,MATCH...OBAMA 2012.

I think I saw Anthony Wiener, Charly Rangle and Corzine in the crowds at an OWS violent anti Semite meeting.

Winning !!

Charlie Sheen.....

too funny....

I peed in a horse once.

Thank you Mr. Mc cormack, for just telling the plain truth.

Robert, Thank you for your service in Viet Nam. That was a horrible war for anyone who experienced it. Thank God for men like you, who went there - not of their own choosing for the most part, but stood up and survived. Thank you for your service as a fireman. You were a hero, I'm sure, to a countless number of people in so many ways.

The unions were instrumental in child labor laws and benefits. I doubt, if the unions were to disintegrate today, that that would change.

Currently, even as we happen to be under the Obama Administration, and despite the Lilly Ledbetter law, women are still paid at 75% of male counterpart pay.

Employees can and do air their grievances through the Department of Labor.

Collective bargaining is a way for people to blend with a group, be discouraged to achieve based on individuality, ride on the coattails of those achieving more, and an enabler of weak performance under the disguise of individual rights. Not a fan of the unions, obviously. Keep in mind, I live in the Chicago area and it may be different elsewhere. Sorry.

First of all grievances do not go through the department of labor unless federal labor laws have been broken. I the department of labor was going to hear day to day grievances they would need many more thousands of employees. If you file labor board charges you are lucky if you get a preliminary hearing in 8 months, how would you like to fire me and a year later I win my case and you have to pay me back pay for the year even if I do not come back to work for you. I don't think businessmen would like that, even if the employer wins it costs him a bundle in legal fees and lost time. Our employers and employees get their grievances settled in three days or less at no cost to the employer or employee as long as no laws were broken, the union absorbs the cost as it is settled between the employer and the union. The labor board cannot hear simple grievances, unless you hired thousands of people, or waited 5 years for a ruling, they deal with matters of federal labor law violations, that notion of yours is untenable and the employers would be the first to tell you that.

Second my union does not discourage me from achieving as an individual, it is exactly the opposite every individual is held responsible there is a clear working agreement and it has to be honored by every member. My union does not care how much the employer pays me as long as it is not below the current scale in the working agreement. They can pay me $500 dollars an hour if they wish my union does not care, I have personally been paid over scale many times, and sometimes been provided with a company car, any member of my union can be paid over scale it the employer thinks he is worth it, they just can not be paid less than scale.

The union employers pay more than the non union employers in many cases much more, but they still have to be the low bidder to get the job or still have competitive pricing to get the sale. That means the union employees have to be more productive, my boss is counting on that every time he bids a contract. He has to beat the non union price and he pays more so from the start he is banking on the fact that his crew will be more productive and efficient than his non union competition and we are he still makes money, and the customer still gets the low bid, and his crew gets paid better, thats a fact these guys are in business to make money and they do because slackers are not tolerated they can't be. I guarantee you it is the exact opposite of tolerating weak performance and promotes top performance for top pay. We have talked about this before, I don't know how you get such strange ideas about unions but I guarantee you, your way off. I doubt if I will change your mind, I doubt if you ever belonged to any union, but what I am telling you is the truth. Let me put it this way, do you think people will work harder for more pay and better benefits or work harder if you give them less pay and little or no benefits.

As a Union Carpenter I know that the quality of my work is what keeps me employed. I also know that when I am working I am representing every union member who made the sacrifices to make my job a safer one, one that provides a fair wage, one that provides benefits such as health care insurance and retirement. It also provides me with a voice to air a greivance that is handled in a timely manner. This is not what big corporations stand for is it?

Until each and every American has a chance to stand and let their voice be heard, the big money and the politicians they have in their pocket will have the lions share of America. So solutions for this problem? One would be to reverse the Supreme Courts ruling on allowing corparations to become people.

They should occupy Washington DC TERRORIST Embassies and their Mosques all a like, they're the ones that started all this with 9/11 and want Americans to turn anti-establishment. This is exactly what they want! America needs to support its system good or bad and find its flaws to be perfect not imperfect otherwise these peole will win from the rubbles of a revolution is that what we want? NO!! America is GREAT! Get out if you don't like it!

NAM was terrible! so is every war someone has to defend the country otherwise we'd be run over by people like Ben Laden! like they did 9/11, and if an American says one word they are called a Racist or a Nazi well guess what? they are the racists and anti-christ!

SAVE AMERICA: yes, let's save America from people completely ignorant of American history...did I just read "love it or leave it" in 2011?? oh my gosh...you people are still HERE??? I thought you folks who were so scared of democracy had long since gone the way of Nixon and Agnew..seriously?? Don't you know we get to disagree in America

Go to a local vet center for help. RVN 70-71

Go to the vet center for help? I've tried that, lots of luck, oh yeah, of course that was after Vietnam when VA reps were being paid bonuses for claims denied. Wonder if any or that has changed? I was really surprised at how this country stabbed us in the back and offer us these lame "welcome home" and "thanksfor your service" bull @!$%# compliments.

Can't rest a case you did not make.