Wasn't it amazing how the debate tone was turned down last night?

I wonder why they were not attacking each other last night as in the previous debate?

The Puppet Master gave them all their marching orders, and they are indeed behind Romney.

And remember when Giuliani and Thompson were the front runners? Also when Dean and Clark were the 2 front runners for the dems. All the big money guys are lining up behind Romney now that Christy is out and we all know money drives politics.

In this country candidates are selected by the wealthy, I mean honestly if you don't have the robber barons that own the country behind you what chance do you have? The rich bastards have finally got it all, congress, the judiciary system, the political system, the press, it's all controlled by 1% of the countries population. The people are left with a token vote, and the technology is in place now to change that to whoever the people in control want. The people have no representation in their own government, that puts the people of this country in the a position no different than the countries we used to feel sorry for, to break the grip of the people in power will not be an easy or enjoyable task, because you can't get it done by conventional means.

W bush, we have only ourselves to blame. We've sit back since 1980 when Reagan took office and let the corporation and the ultra rich take over our country. That's when Government money (aka taxes) started going to the corporation and the ultra rich and has been ever since. They deregulated the banking system the result was the savings and loan crash. At least that time some of the crooks went to jail, this time with the housing crash they get a free ride.

My first question is why the term "conservative" is used for Teabaggers. Anyone who is right-wing is conservative. There are social conservatives (religious fundamentalists) and neocon Hawks (military-industrial complex warmongers) or NRA types, and so-called Libertarians (fiscal conservatives), but they are all conservative and usually overlap. This was probably started within the right-wing per their usual bigotry even toward one another.

Moving on... I found it odd that "conservatives" do not know who Romney is, and in fact are not up-to-speed about the GOP/TP primary in general. Is this because they are low-information voters in general? Or just very disinterested due to the "unsatisfactory" field? Oh I know, they are so obsessed with bashing President Obama they forgot they actually need a good candidate to run against him.

Rove and the Koch brothers appear to be feuding in the background. In comparison to the Koch brothers and their questionable ethics (Iran) and willingness to destroy the nation to achieve their own ends, Rove looks kind of decent - Ha. But the Kochs may fund a Teabagger against Rove and the Establishment and split the ticket. How lovely.

Foot note to post #1.5: we can turn this around. All we have to do is ignore all the politicians, media and the radical right and left, and vote our own interests not their's. We can take our country back with our vote.

I think Romney is as asinine appearing as Al Gore appeared. No way will he get my vote

Jobseeker...

No, she was first in line on another post this morning...

I find it quite interesting how she gets to be the first to post on almost every vine. I suspect she is an MSNBC goon...

Herman Cain 2012!

Romney mainly comes off like the psychiatrist in the asylum. But put him in a debate with President Obama, and Romney will revert to being just another nutcase defending a Republican Party that is owned and operated by rigid right-wing ideologues.

John A.

But put him in a debate with Cain, and Obama will revert to being just another nutcase defending a democrat party that is owned and operated by rigid left-wing nutcases.

It is NOT the government's responsibility to create jobs. We have the right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. No one is entitled to happiness or a job for that matter.

I'm sick of everyone sitting around waiting for someone else to fix their problems. There are jobs out there. There are business opportunities out there. And you don't necessarily have to have much money to start some types of businesses. I've done it. One time when I was between jobs and needed money to support my family, I started a window washing business. It hardly cost anything to start but in less than 30 days I was making enough to support my family's needs until I found something I wanted to do long term.

This country is lazy, becoming less educated and more dependent on government. No one is entitled to be rich or middle class or have health care or retirement. Our founding fathers created this country in a way so that we could PURSUE those dreams. Since when are we entitled to these things without earning them? If you have a dream, go make it happen.

My ancestors, like many of yours, came to this country with nothing. My grandfather had polio, lived in a shack, bathed in an irrigation ditch and worked his tail off to get himself out of poverty. He worked hard at ANY job opportunity that came his way. He didn't spend more than he made and he saved money for the future. He became a multimillionaire through hard work, perseverance and discipline. He has paid more taxes than most of you ever will. He has donated millions to people, charities, educational institutions, etc. I have a lot of family that did the same type of thing. I am grateful that they taught me to take responsibility and not let myself be a victim. This is the greatest country on earth so stop whining about everything and go take control of your life.

If my grandfather was a multi-millionaire I wouldn't have anything to complain about either. You were born into wealth and tell others it is just a matter of taking control of your life.

Hypocrite.

Simple is enough - Well said, and the truth. Unfortunately, you will probably get ripped for being so insensitive to those who want your money... I mean those who feel you should be properly taxed to help the country get out of debt.

John A.:

Romney mainly comes off like the psychiatrist in the asylum. But put him in a debate with President Obama, and Romney will revert to being just another nutcase defending a Republican Party that is owned and operated by rigid right-wing ideologues.

Keep going, Repubs.

I like the way this is setting up -- just like 2008, leaving the least inspiring Republican, who has plenty of baggage of his own, to face the Democrats' most inspiring candidate ever.

I haven't agreed with everything President Obama has done, but with Mitt Romney as the opponent, I surely do like his chances in 2012.

Anna...

It won't be Mitt...try Herman!

Just like Hillary was the "shoe in" for Democrats. Mitt has the establishment, unfortunately for him the people are looking for something else. In walks Herman Cain.

American First- YOU are showing what is wrong with society today. Too many excuses and a propensity to blame others.

I didn't see where Simple said they inherited the wealth- I actually hope his/her grandafther gave it all away! He/She said it was time to take control of your own life and make it happen- to not sit around and wait for the Government to hand it to you! The idiots at OWS are a perfect example of what ails our country today- too many not wanting to work for it- so the "rich" have to share or just plain give it to them!

I wonder- did Kanye West, Russell Simmons, Roseanne Barr, Keith Olbermann or any of the other celebrities "spread" their wealth around at OWS when they went down there to "support" the cause?? Think Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schummer or any of the rest of the gang will??

nah- I don't think so either... there are your hypocrites!

And in walks Obama as the POTUS for the next four years. Honestly. Herman Cain?! No way.

@Americans First-3238795

You are mistaken. I have not inherited my grandfather's money. My parents did not inherit my grandparent's money. I was not born into wealth as you assume. I have, however, begun to create my own wealth from the fruits of MY labors. Less than 10 years ago I graduated from college with a negative net worth and tens of thousands of dollars of student loans. Since then I have worked hard to find opportunities to create my own wealth and prosperity. I have had some failings but more successes because of what I have learned from my family who have achieved their dreams. My siblings and cousins are all doing the same. Don't be bitter because you fail to believe it is possible for you to do the same. It is very possible to achieve the same or better...but you can't do it as long as you play the victim.

It is amazing how people make assumptions and have no idea what they are talking about.

Herman Cain, lol, just what we need, inflexible gimmick policies.

the 9-9-9 plan is a REPLACEMENT for the current tax code- not on top of it! most peoples taxes will go down!!

What scares me with it- is give that plan to Congress and watch those numbers grow!

Plus I don't think Cain has any kind of Foreign Policy in mind.

GBMama

You said it!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quirky observation:

I think it is funny that the only thing different (potentially) in 2008 and 2012 with Mr Cain is a letter and some empty space. LOL

The results would be the same as 2008 if Cain wins the nomination,...actually, he'd probably even get LESS votes than McCain did.

AnnaMolly,

I never thought an Obama apologist such as yourself would suppport Herman Cain or anyone else who runs against Obama for that matter, I was simply saying Romney is not being supported by the regular people who consider themselves conservative. As far as Hermanstax plan goes please don't try to act like you have any economic clue. The same "experts" saying his plan won't work predicted Obama's plan would work and that Freddie and Fannie were just fine, so excuse me if I don't care what those experts think. It will NOT hurt the lower income folks because every product bought now has tax in the price, corporations pay many taxes like the corporate tax and they put that cost in their products, so when you get rid of the high corporate tax and replace it with a lower sales tax it doesn't matter, the tax is still in the product just at a lower rate then before and now corporations can't escape their tax liability with deductions. Low income people buy cigarettes all the time and do you know why they are so expensive?? Because they have huge taxes associated with them, so just because lower income people don't pay a high INCOME tax rate doesn't mean they aren't paying lots of money in priced in taxes.

You people who spout the "personal responsibility", "sit round and wait for a government handout", "lazy", "don't need money to start a business" are hilarious. The so-called road to prosperity is closed in this country, and if you are in "pursuit" of happiness you best have been born rich. If you want an education you have to become indebted to the rich, unless of course you were born that way. The fact of the matter is the people who own this country don't want or desire anyone to succeed, they want all that money for themselves, they have thrown up roadblocks left and right on the road to prosperity and to get past them takes cash, the kind of cash you can't make working for minimum wage without benefits or insurance. Opportunity is supposed to be what this country offers; the wealthy have moved that opportunity overseas to make immoral amounts of money suckling the teat of slave labor. People are finally beginning to see that they have no friends on wall street or in D.C., enjoy the money you screwed out of the working people of this country while you can, because the good ol' days for the fat cats is coming to an end soon, I personally can't wait.

Gingerbread Mamma
Well the media and all whom they can wrangle into the forum are hell bent on making it so. From what I've seen so far this morning, it seems to be a foregone conclusion with many. Come on guys, cant you do better and not give him a free pass? This is not the way a candidate should be vetted. You need to do better.

Hello Kettle...please meet Pot. Obama was give the magic carpet ride to the nomination by the media in 2008. Plenty of buyers remorse on the left just two years later.

I do agree the GOP nominee should be carefully vetted. After all the conversation, he will be the POTUS for eight years.

F R is sick alright. She's a liberal paid or unpaid mouthpiece.

LogicRequired:

I never thought an Obama apologist such as yourself

And I never thought that someone who claims to value logic could be so out of touch with the facts. I'm no Obama apologist. Missed by a mile.

As far as Hermanstax plan goes please don't try to act like you have any economic clue.

How do YOU know I don't? If you don't know I'm no Obama apologist, then there's no way you've been reading my posts enough to know what I do and don't have a clue about.

The same "experts" saying his plan won't work predicted Obama's plan would work and that Freddie and Fannie were just fine, so excuse me if I don't care what those experts think.

Maybe, but a lot of other economists predicted that President Obama's plan would NOT work because it wasn't big enough and included too much in tax breaks. I tended to agree with them, instead. Missed again.

It will NOT hurt the lower income folks because every product bought now has tax in the price, corporations pay many taxes like the corporate tax and they put that cost in their products, so when you get rid of the high corporate tax and replace it with a lower sales tax it doesn't matter,

This is total gibberish. You are talking about people who already don't pay much in taxes because they don't make much and then adding 9 percent on to everything they buy, including food and health care. If you have some idea that companies will suddenly lower all their prices to make up for the corporate taxes that they never pay anyway, then you're the one without a clue. Seriously.

Low income people buy cigarettes all the time and do you know why they are so expensive?? Because they have huge taxes associated with them ....

I see. So you assume all lower income people smoke and are therefore used to paying taxes, so they'll be happy to pay more taxes yet. Even if that unfounded stereotype is true, however, what about those who don't smoke?

so just because lower income people don't pay a high INCOME tax rate doesn't mean they aren't paying lots of money in priced in taxes.

And you consider the fact that they may be paying a lot of hidden taxes now a good excuse to make them pay even more? Where on earth did you get such an idea?

From Herman? LoL

Logic is required, all right. Too bad for you that, when they passed it out, you were somewhere else.

Well, the "Media" hasn't picked the Candidate yet, and I'll bet they pick the "One" most likely to be defeated by ObamaGod, any way you slice it.

Oh, BTW, have you seen the "news" releases that show ObamaGod and his DOJ have been sitting on the Iran story since JUNE!!!!!!! Gotta find something to TRY to clear Holder and his F&F murder, and why hasn't the Great one done anything about that pesky Border, where the Cartels came across and were ASSISTING IRAN in the Assination attemps on the Egyptian Embassy, ON AMERICAN SOIL????

Poor "downtrodden Illegals" now helping our ENEMIES against our Friends and trying to undermine AMERICA once again.

With the Media offering up Amnesty for ALL Illegals, and the current Administration ignoring the needs and LAWS of America, just doesn't surprise me at all if they force the next weak Conservative candidate upon us, because the Media are 100% against America, just as ObamaGod and his minions.

We just have to wait for the FAR LEFT Media to select the Conservative Candidate.

If you've voted for any Democrat since Kennedy, you voted FOR our Destruction, and the LEFTIST/DEMOCRAT Media. Yep, free speech and our Gov't working for US!!!!!

The repubs elite have decided how this is going down. Clearly, Romney is the anointed one, forget it baggers your votes in the primaries are futile and inconsequential. That Foxhole talking point about the media picking your nominee is bogus. Its all about the repubs elites.

@ w bush

Perfect example of someone who thinks like a victim and feels they are entitled to something.

Who is it that is supposed to provide this "road to prosperity" you speak of? The government? No YOU create your own opportunities.

If you can't afford to pay for a formal education, go to a freaking library. You know, the one with all of the FREE books you can read.

You don't have to be born rich, you just have to know how to WORK to become rich.

If you don't want a minimum wage job, then get qualified for a better job and prove to somebody you are worth more than minimum wage.

If you truly believe that opportunity is overseas, then GO OVERSEAS! I know people who have done that and have done well for themselves. (and not by using slave labor)

STOP WHINING!!!

Simple is enough- AMEN!!

You Conservatives crack me up...especially that "simple is enough" clown. Get a grip man...quit talking down to people with your know-it-all, narcissistic BS. People like that have absolutely no foundation of reality. They need to visit and mingle with the very impoverished people in Appalachia, the rural deep South, the ghettos of America's large urban areas, the rust belt factory workers, the middle age professional that just lost his/her job. Wake up man...there are plenty of hard working people out there trying to better themselves and just can't catch that "break" like you obviously did. Hard work alone is no longer the ticket to success...you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

BTW....all this talk about Romney, or any other GOP candidate is a complete waste of time. Barack Obama will be re-elected handily to his second term. Occupy Wall Street is only the beginning...the Revolution has begun!

AnnaMolly,

And I never thought that someone who claims to value logic could be so out of touch with the facts. I'm no Obama apologist. Missed by a mile.

Really?? Quotes from some of your other post.... "just like 2008, leaving the least inspiring Republican, who has plenty of baggage of his own, to face the Democrats' most inspiring candidate ever." Seems very objective. But fine, I will take you at your word and apologize for calling you an apologist.

This is total gibberish. You are talking about people who already don't pay much in taxes because they don't make much and then adding 9 percent on to everything they buy, including food and health care. If you have some idea that companies will suddenly lower all their prices to make up for the corporate taxes that they never pay anyway, then you're the one without a clue. Seriously.

I see. So you assume all lower income people smoke and are therefore used to paying taxes, so they'll be happy to pay more taxes yet. Even if that unfounded stereotype is true, however, what about those who don't smoke?

And you consider the fact that they may be paying a lot of hidden taxes now a good excuse to make them pay even more? Where on earth did you get such an idea?

This is why I know you don't have an economic clue. I don't think every low income preson smokes, but I used it as an example of how people pay taxes eveyday when they buy products, the 9% isn't going to be added on to those taxes it will be the replacement of the tax already in the products cost. If a soda cost $1 and 20 cents of that dollar go to cover the corporate taxes along with every other tax the Business must pay then when you get rids of all those taxes and replce it with a 9% tax it only adds 9 cents to the cost of the product instead of 20. This is not a complicated thing but it gets confusing when people who don't understand or haven't read how it worksmake comments on it. Try reading the "fair Tax" book and you will get an idea on how much money is spent because of the complicated tax code system and how much hidden tax could be ELIMINATED if you go to a sales tax. Hermans plan is a little different but has many of the same concepts. It is to hard to explain completely in a post but the bottom line is the tax is NOT an addition to the current tax code, it is a replacement, so when you say it will ADD 9% to their cost you are simply wrong. Read the "fair Tax book", you may disagree with it but it is very eye opening on how much money is wasted in the current tax system.

LogicRequired:

Quotes from some of your other post.... "just like 2008, leaving the least inspiring Republican, who has plenty of baggage of his own, to face the Democrats' most inspiring candidate ever." Seems very objective.

And I also said this:

I haven't agreed with everything President Obama has done ....

There's a BIG difference between being an inspiring candidate and having done everything I wanted him to do. He hasn't.

But as between Obama and the Republican field, I'd take him HANDS DOWN. And so would most, if not all, Democrats. And I'm betting on the independents, too.

the 9% isn't going to be added on to those taxes it will be the replacement of the tax already in the products cost. If a soda cost $1 and 20 cents of that dollar go to cover the corporate taxes along with every other tax the Business must pay then when you get rids of all those taxes and replce it with a 9% tax it only adds 9 cents to the cost of the product instead of 20.

This is WAY too simplistic.

Even if Cain's plan eliminates all "hidden" -- e.g. excise -- taxes on products like cigarettes and alcohol, just using your example, a 20 percent tax on cigarettes reduced to 9 percent would still be nothing compared with NO current tax on food and health care, not to mention clothing and other necessities, suddenly raised to 9 percent.

Or do you also assume that middle class and poor people spend more on cigarettes and alcohol than they do on food and medicine? Because if they don't, then they're still going to get whacked by Cain's 9-9-9 tax.

Example: Family spends $20 per week on cigarettes, and pays $4 in taxes on that. Under Cain's plan, that becomes $16 for the cigarettes, with 9 percent added on ($1.44). So far so good. But that same family spends $150 on food every week, on which it pays NO taxes now, but under Cain's plan will pay $13.50.

So, tell me again, under which scheme does this family pay less in taxes?

And you somehow think I'M the one who doesn't know how it works? Please.

AnnaMolly,

NO current tax on food and health care, not to mention clothing and other necessities, suddenly raised to 9 percent.

There is NO "sales tax" on health care, and food, which is correct, but again the Companies who make the food and sale it are Businesses and Corporations who PAY TAXES and add that expense into the price of there product. Health Care industry for right now anyway is mainly private which means your doctor runs a practice that trys to make a profit and has that profit taxed. Your doctor may charge you less if he had less taxes in which he needed to cover. Everything has cost, and part of that cost includes a tax liability the company or business or corporation wants to cover not by making less profit, but by adding cost to their product. If you know year after year your tax liability is going to be 9% of income plus 9% on anything you buy it makes business a lot easier and more predicable. When the tax code is thousands of pages long and changes every year with new deductables and new rates businesses have a hard time planning for the future and put their money on the sidelines until they know the rules and if those rules are worth the risk of investing their money. Again I would ask you to at least glance at the "fair tax" book.

I don't know why you argued with me again on the Obama apologist thing, I said I would take your word for it and I actually apologized. You do admitt to being a Democrat correct? So again trying to get you to vote for a republican isn't going to happen even if you disagree with some of what Obama has done.

@mucker87

Another example of how a victim thinks.

I am far more acquainted with the challenges faced by the impoverished than you may realize; in this country as well as some 3rd world countries where I have lived and worked among people far poorer than the poorest in our country. But you can go ahead and guess and assume and call me names because it really makes your argument baseless and juvenile.

Please tell me, what exactly was the "break" that I caught. You talk as if you know everything about my history. You don't have a clue as to what I have done or where I have been or how I have arrived at where I am.

You say that "hard work is no longer the ticket to success." So what exactly, in your opinion, is the ticket to success?

You are correct in that there are many hard working people out there trying to better their lives. I applaud them. They are taking personal responsibility for their lives. That DOES NOT mean they are entitled to success, wealth, prosperity, health care, purchase a house, a 9-5 job, etc. They are, however, entitled to pursue such things.

If wanting everyone to take personal responsibility for their lives is offensive, then I intend to offend.

@LogicRequired --

Even if it was possible to remove all the hidden taxes, your delusion that businesses would suddenly and voluntarily drop their prices accordingly is just that -- delusion.

But the burden is on you to show exactly how that would save anyone any money, and how much. On the forward thread, you will find that the non-partisan Tax Policy Center has actually done the math, and their conclusion agrees with mine.

They must not know anything, either. Because all they do is study taxes, and because Herman Cain, super math wizard, knows better than everyone.

Tell you what. You glance at their study and I'll glance at your book, if you send me a copy, because I don't spend my own money on books about voodoo economics.

I don't know why you argued with me again on the Obama apologist thing, I said I would take your word for it and I actually apologized.

Apology accepted.

You do admitt to being a Democrat correct? So again trying to get you to vote for a republican isn't going to happen even if you disagree with some of what Obama has done.

Against this Republican field, yes.

AnnaMolly,

I disagree with you that the Tax Policy Center is a "non-partisan" group. It seems just because they call themselves non-partisan people tend to think it might be true. Both sides play this game but I will go ahead and look at anyway. I obviously will not be sending you the book since I have no idea who you are and doubt you want to post an address on a newsvine, but you can without spending any money go to one of those places called a library, or Barnes and Noble and look through it. I'm seriously not expecting you to take time out of your day to read a whole book but if you get a chance glance at it.

I don't think everyone will drop there prices if all of a sudden they had to pay less taxes, but I do believe it is a better tax structure then our current system. Sure it might need to get tweaked, but do you think our current system isn't a complete disastor? The income tax code and its associated regulations contain almost 5.6 million words -- seven times as many words as the Bible. Taxpayers now spend about 5.4 billion hours a year trying to comply with 2,500 pages of tax laws. A simple tax system would save millions in just time spent trying to follow this cluster.

Sure it might need to get tweaked, but do you think our current system isn't a complete disastor?

Of course, not. But I also think that a "simple tax system" isn't a panacea, either, unless we do some other things, as well.

At the fundamental level, we go at this problem all wrong. To say that we should be spending a certain percentage of GNP is not even the way to figure out that most macro of issues. We need to figure out first what we really want government to do and only then how to pay for what we really need. 9-9-9 is nothing more than a bandaid that doesn't even begin to address the fundamental issue, and probably won't cover the entire wound.

Look ... If I thought it would work, I would be for it, no matter who sponsored it. I just don't think it will. Because first we need to decide what it works FOR. Making the tax system more fair still doesn't solve the fundamental problem. It just shifts it. And in this case, I think 9-9-9 will exacerbate it.

I was kidding about the book, by the way. I hardly expected you would send it.

But I hoped you would do better than deny out-of-hand the non-partisanship of the Tax Policy Center just because their conclusion undercuts your own position. Attacking the messenger is exactly what I hate most about discussing politics with conservatives. Look at the conclusions, and then tell me what you think is wrong with those.

@simple is enough

So having a mass of impoverished people with no hope of making thier lives better is acceptable in the greatest and most wealthy economy on earth? That's a classic narcisstic, Conservative response. Your conclusions are pitiful and even weaker than I originally expected. I could care less about your observations in other countries...I'm concerned with right here...right now. GE's yearly income exceeds the GNP of the countries you refer to...so don't lay that lame BS on me! This country has the largest difluent trend between rich and poor on the face of the earth...and that variance is growing every day. I suggest you take and ECON 101 course and learn about economies of scale...its an elementary and basic concept that most Conservatives simply can't (wont) comprehend. If you tell me that you became successful one more time without a financial head start or by screwing someone in the process I think I'll puke! As for the name calling...I tend to call a spade a spade...if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd...well...its probably a turd if you get my drift. As for your "baseless and juvenile" remark...we'll see how that works out for ya on November 6, 2012. Just in case you haven't noticed...the "middle class revolution" has begun and the situation will change very soon my friend! The "giant" is awake and will reclaim his territory.

Baggage of religion? Just what is that supposed to mean?

...and where do conservatives keep coming up with this idea that we have an issue with Romney's religion?

Republicans burned themselves on the religion issue when they brought religion into the fold courtesy of Reagan. The liberal media wants Perry, not Romney...Perry can't debate worth crap, his history is far more moderate than his ultra conservative base wants to hear and Republican voters may not turn out to vote for him in the general election. Romney is better with independent voters than Perry. With Christie's endorsement the money is behind Romney and at the end of the day, the bigoted parts of the base will still salivate over it.

Who would have thought that maybe a black man and a Mormon would be battling it out for POTUS...

Stupid sh*tty comments.

REPUBLICANS are bring up Romney's cult religion, not liberals. Who cares who the GOP has their nominee; they're going to get creamed by Obama!

The funny underwear, flip-flopping, robot Romney doesn't have a chance once his REAL record is exposed. He is known for creating jobs...offshore.

As an independent and only speaking for myself. I find myself leaning to Romney. He seems to be the only one that tends to go toward the center... Economykiller by your name I can see why you want Cain....

I am non-religious and a liberal. I have a HUGE problem with Romney's religion. I actually enjoy that he seems to lean more moderate (even if he lies about it now to win favor with the tea party) on some issues. What I don't enjoy is the scary LDS cult who will undoubtedly be controlling the puppet should he become President

I'm still waiting for "wealthy tree stump" to show up on the ballot under GOP. That would represent the pinnacle of Republican/Tea Party intelligence. Still waiting.

I have a MUCH bigger problem with Romney's supposed business background (going into businesses, chopping them up, and selling them for scraps) than his religion.

His candidacy may actually be good for the Republican Party because it will help dissociate the party from the stranglehold of the tea party and the religious right.

janierock- you obviously know very little about the Church. That's okay- most people don't know much. They hear things but fail to verify them. or "verify" them with a bunch of crap that perpetuates lies.

Try this: LDS.org or mormon.org

you'd be surprised what you can learn.

You know- they said the same thing about Kennedy & the Pope. Never happened- and it wouldn't with the Church.

Why is religion a problem? What is wrong with the candidates on the GOP is not a single one has a clue about how to fix our country problems caused by Bush. Obama had only two yrs before big money back extremist to block ANY & ALL legislation and made our country's ratings fall because of the debt crisis bill. The reason the debate was dull, if they spoke and forgot like the debates before, they showed just how hard it was to remember what the big money told them to say. Look at the backtracking they are doing. Perry loves to speak about how great Texas is. Low wages, no income tax, education for illegals when a "middle class" family cannot pay for their children's college, has racial slurs written out in open then tried to cover it up. What an upstanding leader. Prays for everything-did it produce much needed rain. Get over religion!! Find a man who thinks for himself and actually will compromise to move this country forward for all, rich, whats left of middle class and help for the elderly, disabled and poor. No one can call all the poor lazy, pot smoking idiots. They are just like the min. wage workers in Texas who's corporations moved business out of the country to have a big bottom dollar amt. for the rich investors. Something normal working class cannot afford to invest because the have to choose to eat, have a roof over their head. The protesters all over the country now come from every walk of life. Young graduates who cannot find a job other than flipping burgers, elderly who's retirement depleted because of bank failures and other who are sick the the right wing know-it-alls! Find a candidate who is not bought. Neither party can. See money rules.

The Liberal Media, the Republican establishment wants Mitt unless you include the Wall Street Journal and Fox News as "Liberal" media??

@geekfish, I actually know quite a bit about the Mormon church. A lot of the craziness I witnessed when I was invited to sit the in lobby during a Mormon temple wedding. Nothing will scare the life out of you like glancing into the crisp stark white environment of a Mormon temple. My former Mormon roommate could not escape her "home teachers" who basically stalked us. they'd bring cookies and literature and keep turning up time after time after being asked again and again never to return.

My Mormon friends also told me that they're "strongly discouraged" from reading anything critical regarding Mormonism as it would likely weaken their faith. That alone is scary enough, but then they were given "callings" that basically took over their lives. So they have jobs, 5 kids, their church calling and they're required to tithe or else they're called into meetings where they are literally badgered about it. How in the world can this be anything other than a cult?

Also, don't get me started on the Prop 8 madness and how they involve themselves politically and then lie about how much to maintain their tax exempt status.

It's a different "flavor of the week" every week with the GOP

Romney's flip flopping is CRAZY--abortion, gay marriage, healthcare--does he actually have any opinion?

He maybe a Flip-Flopper, but he's not Insane nor is he illiterate, like the rest of the field he's in.

What doe you call the "Little Rascals" all grown up.....the GOP presidential Candidates.

Complete with "Chubby" Chris Christie, on the side.

Doubtful Cain will take anything...While he has put his catchy 9-9-9 plan out, what he lacks (much like anyone else) are details about his economic plan which is not convincing in the least. He's talking about taxation which makes his base cringe...sure his poll numbers are good, but we know that can change quickly. He is right now a single issue candidate and will be beaten up for never having served public office (unless you count federal reserve bank). Obama was burned for not having executive experience all throughout his campaign by Republicans...what makes anyone believe Cain can get Republicans to nominate him? When is the Republican base going to start asking him for his birth certificate and talk with his pastor?

And where to the independents stand? Exactly what are the qualifications or political stand that separates independents from every other political party?

We hear a lot about independent voters but who are they?

With the polar differences this evident, one can only assume "independent" voters are uninformed voters. Seriously, if you haven't already decided, you have to be a moron.

Air thief- independent votes are informed that is why they vote for the best not matter the party line. They do not follow blindly like the Moran you are!

Ron Paul will never get the Republican nomination no matter how sensible some of his views seem...what would be interesting is as a last hurrah, he runs as an independent candidate in the general election. That would really burn the Republican party.

I'm scared that you're right and hope that you're wrong sosad-1126585.

Ron Paul is the best hope for our countries future.

Buddy Roemer is a better version of "Libertarian" than Ron Paul, and he's younger and most of all sane in comparison. But he's too liberal for the new breed of right-wingers out there--heck Ron Paul is too liberal in regard to religious wedge issues and anti-warmongering, so fogettaboutit. The GOP/TP was hijacked by the Birchers, than the Moral Majority, and now the Teabaggers, which are the big-sized Bircher-Birther Moral Majority Starve the Beast Combo.

The only reason Cain is as high in the polls as he is, because that percentage of tea people GOP republicans don't like Romney. What ever percentage of voters in the polls say they like Cain, they will not vote they'll stay home.

Buddy Roemer is not a libertarian in any way shape or form, where do you even get that from his policy statements? I see a war monger that endorses a nanny state of citizens following that path.

You make quite the assumption that only Ron Paul supporters vote. Personally, I resent the comment since I have the right to vote and I exercise this right whenever I get the chance.

Ron Paul's ideas are freakish and the whole country knows it. Just because his trolls show up on these listservs right before every election doesn't mean his message has any traction at all.

He's a senile nut.

once again, make these debates fair !!! we want to hear from the other candidates ( not the one's that the media is pushing on us. ) a debate is giving everyone a fair chance to answer a topic. why can't america see that once again the media is strongly steering us in a certain direction. enough of this!!! if you want a real debate, let real everyday americans who is in the real world,dealing with this mess, ask the questions that is important to real america. i for one would gladly make myself available to be involved TO REPRESENT THE REAL AMERICANS ASKING REAL QUESTIONS THAT MATTERS TO THE EVERYDAY AMERICAN. ( yea, like that would ever happen. the media really getting A EVERYDAY AMERICAN involved to get a fair gauge on something. I DARE YOU TO GET A REAL AMERICAN INVOLVED. )

What baggage does Herman Cain have?

The same issue that Obama had when he ran...little to no experience in public office.

Herman Cain was Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. Pillsbury appointed Herman Cain to be CEO of Godfather's - Cain was 'given' the job. Cain was involved in a leveraged buyout of the Godfather's chain after being placed there by Pillsbury.

Herman Cain is on the leash of banking and big corporations. Herman Cain is NOT an independent thinker ...

I was with on Huntsman to begin with AnaBanna. But he more I see and hear him the more he looks like another Perry. All show and no substance.

I like him too for making Pizzas...

His Pizza stinks. We don't need that sauce in the WH.

If Gov. Romney gets the nomination, people will ask him why he has President Bush's economic advisers and why he has President Bush's foreign policy team -- the George W. Bush administration(s) ruined the economy and his advisers (and VP Cheney) got us mired in a useless war in Iraq.

Rick,

Seems Cain's 9 9 9 plan came off as way too simplistic, while Romney's plans are intricate and much too large to discuss in detail in a debate. He had better keep them under his hat for a while. If they look too good, Obama may try to claim them as his own. Better to just let Obama keep stumbling along like a drunk in the dark till he has to confess his sins.

Romney's plan too intricate to discuss in a debate--not even a summary of it? yet he claims that it will create 14 million new jobs? How outlandish can you get.

Repubs haven't actually detailed ANY economy-fixing, job-creating, health insurance gaining plans. All they do is bash what Obama has done. That's not leadership; that's cowardice.

Job Creation is fairly simple- Take the unnecessary regulations off small business from the EPA, tax them less and create a stable tax environment for years to come, reduce the corp tax rate and push incentives that reward domestic job creation here at home, open up domestic drilling again (again, the EPA is in the way) and strengthen the military complex (not start wars- but become dominate again).

Those alone would cause upwards of 8 million jobs and cause fuel/energy prices to fall creating even more spending by consumers- even if it's just to cathch up on bills!

GB-2940791

Take it to the bank....Herman Cain WILL NOT be the GOP nominee for President.

I'll drink to that.

He is their token candidate put there only as a scheme to dupe people that the GOP is tolerant of others unlike them. I would love for Cain to get the nomination because President would annihilate him in the general. The GOP knows it too; consequently, they could never nominate him.

Watch, soon the GOP will switch gears and asphyxiate Cain.

Just like President Obama will annihilate Romney in the debates.

Just like President Obama will annihilate Romney in the debates.

That's funny...the only thing obama can annihilate is the economy.

He's awesome at it. Just pick up a newspaper

At least Obama has pushed forward a number of plans. Some worked, some didn't. The Repubs have nothing. Even Romney says his mysterious plan will create millions of jobs. "Mysterious" usually mean "mythical."

What is this thing you call a newspaper?

Barf!!!

Ron Paul 2012 is the way I'm going!

Bachmann can be secretary of state--an administration of misfits!

A vote for Paul is a vote for the 1%. If you don't care about America, then Paul is your man, as he doesn't care for America either.

The rich, Paul is all about more tax cuts for the rich. Remember he was one of the ones that raised his hand that he would not raise taxes at the rate of 10 to 1. So $10 in cuts is not enough to raise the revenue $1.

Ron Paul just another republican protecting the rich at the cost of America.

I get so annoyed when people say these types of things again him. He is not for or against the rich and he is not for or against the poor. He is for having smaller government, and fewer limitations and regulations, which would allow for more people to live their lives the way they see fit. Its not the government's job to regulate how much wealth is too much, its not the government's job to referee what's fair and what's not and its not the government's job to 'distribute' our taxes to wherever they think it should (which by the way, they fail at miserably...). We as people should be in charge of deciding where we want to live, what schools we want to go to, what products we want to buy, what investments we want to make and what charities to donate to. Ron Paul wants our government to act in a way that is in line with the Constitution, which currently, it is not. He wants the federal government to get out of things it never should have been in to begin with and he wants to allow states to make their own decisions based on the needs of their residents. Crime and greed will always exist, at least in Ron Paul's U.S., the government would stop footing the bill and companies would only be working with money they earned on their own.

Lastly, I'm not in the 1%, I do support Dr. Paul, I care about America and I'm not alone in any of that, so that sorta contradicts your judgmental blanket statement.....

Ladykady- Get you head out of your rear and actually try to see that EPA standards are there for the future of our children. The GOP chances the constitution and US Supreme Court to fit only to benefit the top 1%.

Dr. Paul is just the sucker magnet meant to get you to vote against yourself.

Paul is for the 1%, you may not be, but he is. This smaller government scheme was concocted by the rich to never raise their taxes. Didn't it ever make you wonder why the Koch brothers would back the tea party?

Paul's ideals especially benefit the 1%, like it or not. He is all for lower taxes and nothing for the people.

GYN, Romney is what ever you want him to be. He's like the lizard that chances with the landscape.

James546734 - you said,

"Herman Cain...The Teaparty really support him too..."

I believe I heard The Tea Party has officially endorsed Newt Gingrich.

9% federal sales tax ADDED to what ever your state sales tax is. Here in MI it is 6%. So 15% sales tax? That will not fly, not a chance!

you had better put your glasses on....

Go Herman go!!!!! You don't need glasses!!

Free pizza for everyone! ...even if it tastes nasty.

Make no mistake Cantor knows exactly why those people are protesting and it scares the hell out of him and all the other republican guard members, they would have the police open fire on the protesters if they thought no one would find out, him and his wealthy masters will demand it if things start going against them, they would kill everyone in this country to protect their ill gotten treasure.

I would hope you would opt out of SS and put your money into a privatized retirement investment program. And then let your Republican buddies crash the market and you lose your retirement fund.

SS will be around long after you pass. In spite of all the hype, the US Gov is the safest investment in the world.

@ JerseyDog... safest investment in the world, until we print enough money so all it's good for is toilet paper.

Speaking of toilet paper, it is worth more than my savings account is worth now.

Don't distort Ron Paul's statements just because you can't let go of Obama and his lies. If Obama cared about Social Security he wouldn't be defunding it with his current useless payroll tax break.

Privatizing social security is the fastest way for the ultra rich to get their hands on SS and medicare payments.

How about Ron Paul's looney: "We should go back to the churches taking care of the sick. " Seriously?

How about "Let's make all types of medicine legal." Guess what--they ARE legal.

He's living in the 1500's. Go away, Ron Paul.

@ Mo ... Ron Paul on Social Security here:http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Social_Security.htm

another summary here:

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/rep_bios.php?rep_id=47384468&category=views&id=20100527138833

@ Bart, your comment doesn't even deserve my time.