So Barry’s American Jobs Act and his incessant mantra of “PASS THIS BILL!!” was really only about political theater and his strategy to get re-elected despite his dismal failure to turn the economy around. How pathetic.

I wonder how the 25 million unemployed and underemployed Americans feel about being used by Barry as political game pieces??

Hmmmm….. didn’t Barry get elected on a promise to “change the way Washington works”??

Turns out he’s just another same old, same old, full-of-sh!t politician who will screw anyone and anything to get re-elected.

From Politico:

Obama looks past Hill on jobs bill
By: Carrie Budoff Brown and Glenn Thrush
October 11, 2011 11:41 PM EDT

Winning in Congress was never really part of the plan.

President Barack Obama didn’t do much to bring along lawmakers on his jobs bill — and it showed in the Senate vote Tuesday. The $447 billion measure stalled after struggling to win even a simple majority to move forward, on its surface an embarrassing setback at the hands of the Democratic-controlled Senate.

In a shift for the White House, the relentless focus on the American Jobs Act wasn’t about racking up a legislative win. It was always about laying the foundation for the only real argument Obama has in 2012: I have a plan to create jobs now and Republicans don’t.

Along the way, a president who hates to lose — on the basketball court, in the voting booth or on Capitol Hill — realized it was his surest strategy for winning.

“The president has learned that a loss can be a win,” said a senior Democratic strategist who supports Obama. “We’ve done everything to win legislatively, to scrape through. Now we’re determined to keep the high ground on a set of issues where we have the overwhelming support of the American people.”

The American Jobs Act vote and the future of the 99%:

So last night the Republicans in the Senate did what we knew they would. They sold out the non-one-percenters. Us.
They didn't want to create any jobs for Mrs. Jones, Mr. Bennett, or the Reh family, or the McKays or the Pierces.
None of us qualified for their votes. Not even for one of their votes.

What mattered to GOP Senators (all voted nay) was their standing with Grover Norquist because they sold their soul to him a long time ago. Norquist owns them. What matters to GOP Senators is ALEC and others who write secret legislation for them to sell in Congress. What matters to GOP are the untraceable billionaires who help them bribe, cheat and lie their way to the next election.

The 1% that owns GOP Senators is the richest group ever in the history of the world. They just made the most profits ever in US history. And they want more. They will squeeze every last drop out of the American people and the vote last night shows they are very serious about it.

This is a new kind of power-grab.
This American elite of the 21st century wants the whole shebang.
This tenth of 1% of America wants to amass more wealth than the world can imagine, and more than it has ever seen.
And they want their position to go unchallenged. Unchallengeable. To be above and beyond being challenged by ordinary folks.

Moreover this super-elite wants to go unchallenged into perpetuity. Once above it all they will be able to exploit environmental resources and exploit people however they see fit, without challenge or restraint. This is about conquest.

The vote on the American Jobs Act last night was a nod to the grotesque reach and ability of Big Money in America to rig the system so completely, that no-one will ever be able to get them out of power. The corporate mouthpieces in Congress on the right have been charged with a strategy of no-action and they've carried out that instruction faithfully. The corporate masters chose this strategy as a vehicle for total success. Maybe it will come quickly. Or it might take a little longer.

But they are sure it will come. Once they've undermined and destroyed the government, the office of the President and the psyche of the people they will gain dominion over all America.

By voting No last night, Republican leaders in the Senate sent us a message. They voted to deprive, crush and debilitate millions of vulnerable and jobless Americans. And demonstrated once again that by voting together as one, they can wield control over short and longterm outcomes. Voting like this is a military tactic.

If we give our power to the super-elite of America, our descendents will ask, how come? How did America allow such a tiny group to dictate our country's future?
When did we agree to miss the new adventure, miss the excitement of new perspectives and new possibilities. How did we miss our turn to create a good world. How did we allow a greedy few to insist they had rights for more, more, more?

In years to come Americans will want to know when was the turning point when we just gave in, and handed them all the keys.

When I htink about it Backhouse -

Foiled and "short-sighted"!!!

Herman Cain performance in the debate was foiled and "short-sighted."!!!

Hurricane's #999 train blew everyone away so much to the point even crazy eyed Michelle Bachmann used it as a reason for the republican to not pay their taxes. Michelle Bachmann spoke of it in glowing terms of it being turned upside down into 666 to reveal the devil in details

Umm, crazy eyes got it so right. 999 is a stupid plan. Blooomberg says 999 falls short.

Speaking of being foiled didn't Attorney General Eric Holder put a dent in the rightie talking points about incompetence?

How many terrorist plans have the Republicans foiled encouraged?

Ethics Complaint Filed Against Darrell Issa. Now whose corrupt?

FT: Is Romney a sure thing?

He is right as two left shoes.

I wonder how the 25 million unemployed and underemployed Americans feel about being used by Barry as political game pieces??

Looks more like they're being used as game pieces by the GOPTP. Conservatives have made their plan to "help" quite clear...tell them to get off their rears and go get a job, while Republicans do everything possible to INCREASE unemployment.

Wow.

I don't know what happened with my post #1.3??? Gremlins again?

What I said was; The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the President's Jobs Bill NOT passing the Senate is another brilliant move on his part.

Having to break it up and go piece by piece wil assure that the public is aware of EXACTLY what's in it and then certain Congressional members can EXPLAIN WHY they refuse to do what's best for the country!

Biden makes a very profound statement in that the Republicans will not pass anything and therein lies the question and options. It is an almost foregone conclusion that the House will remain in Republican control. So if the Congress remains divided, what is the reasoning for re-electing a POTUS who can't lead and confront his opposition with dignity and develop a coalition? If you believe that what is happening is bad for the country, why re-elect Obama? You would have to be a profound moron to believe that the Republicans in the House will change through some miracle.

The only way anything will be accomplished in the next four years if Obama is re-elected is that the Senate is under Republican control as well. Then compromises are forced like what happened to Clinton. That is when good things are accomplished in this country. You would also be a profound moron if you don't believe that as well.

All of your name calling, intimidation tactics, vile personal attacks will not change anything so why bother -- unless you feel that the only way to go through your day is wanting the daily stage of the U.S. government to be like those fake but trashy reality TV shows.

However, all of this will probably be moot since now you may call him Willard or Mittens but you will call him President Romney in January 2013.

"Is Romney a sure thing?"

==================================================================

Since Romney has his lips firmly planted on the a$$ of the corporate/republican/wall street/robber barons, one would have to say not yes, but hell yes. The people that own our little country want Romney so Romney it will be, get used to it.

If the goal is to see his legislative proposals NOT pass, the President will certainly have bipartisan support in Congress.

Too bad he didn't employ this strategy with the unpopular health care reform bill. He'd have had the backing of the public for non-passage of Obamacare for sure.

Backhouse, excellent post. Yesterday's vote is a sad statement for democracy. The GOP wraps itself in the American flag while stomping on it behind closed doors. It is about Robber Barons wielding power over the masses; about Grover Nordquist ruling the GOP and the republicans who sign his pledge toss aside their Oath to the Constitution, their pledge to serve ALL the people not one King.

Thanks Jody.

I think Backhouse's (err I mean Navy) best post is 2. That way there are no lies spread.

What is rather amazing about Gov. Romney (although I shouldn't be surprised) is that bailing out banks was okay, but the automakers was bad. The thing is, the automakers provide real jobs. And now the automakers are one of the few manufacturers (what little we have left) that are hiring.

David, great post. This paragraph and especially the last two sentences should be posted every day and become a mantra for those of us who wont be voting for any of these clowns.

The takeaway? It seems almost impossible that the chosen candidate can ever get back to the center without offending the base. Unfortunately, Republicans take this batch of terrifyingly ignorant shills and lackeys seriously. That means that we had better take them seriously too; not because they are smart - to the contrary. They are outright dangerous and will destroy this nation, and they can do it in less than one year. They must be stopped now, and destroyed.

Alive and well. One thing is for sure, Cain will not get the nomination, the GOP will nominate a mormon before a black man. This Cain "bump" is just a mirage and helps the GOP feel better about itself for having a person of color regardless of whether he has a real shot at the nomination. I give a snowball in hell a better shot...

Could it be that a few of them came here to First Read for prep yesterday for the debate! LOL Come on people let's really give them some material to work with!! : )

David Walker, another fine analysis! Reading about Perry reminded me of the Des Moines Register's soap box at the Iowa State Fair. After listening to Perry's speech, a reporter asked a by-stander if he was republican and what he thought of Rick Perry. His answer "we don't need another flag-waving Texan." It seems that Iowa Republican had good insight into what Perry really is--shallow, a braggert and a flag waver none of which qualifies one to be President.

Backhouse, it seems a few right-wingers will believe anything including that you are US Navy! Enjoy, it is high praise even if they don't mean it to be.

Good Morning, Reading Joe form Albany and Backhouse posts on the blocking of the Jobs Bill on a procedural vote in the Senate is very revealing.

Joe supports the view that the importance of this no vote is political theater, laying the blame at the door of the President. Using your analogy Joe, what are the parts the Republican Senators play? I say they are the Greek Chorus repeating the line "no new Taxes,Our only job is to make Obama a one term president". It is a tragedy for the 99% and a comedy for the 1%.

Backhouse post examines the consequence for the super elite in this country. The 1% , the pantheon for GOP/teaparty worship, continue to fund the circus game our politcal life has become.

The American voter is being fed to the lions each and every day.

Don't Carry.... I have an idea you are right. FR has a reputation as the place for political insight.

Northstar, well said.

Has anyone seen the OWS CNBC sponsored “Speakers Corner” in Zuccotti Park?

It’s a lectern with a microphone and is covered by a webcam. Anyone that wants to say something about OWS can step up and speak. It has the CNBC logo on the front of it.

I have to wonder if the morons speaking realize they are on the official cable network of Wall Street which is owned by two major evil corporations, GE and Comcast??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44846255/

Mixed Bag

If the goal is to see his legislative proposals NOT pass, the President will certainly have bipartisan support in Congress.

Too bad he didn't employ this strategy with the unpopular health care reform bill. He'd have had the backing of the public for non-passage of Obamacare for sure.

The Romney program on which Obama's is based seems to be rather popular in Massachusetts. The Affordable Care Act will likely be popular after its provisions actually take effect. That's why the Republicans are so desperate to kill it. They no longer have anything constructive to offer, so their only way back to power is to keep the Democrats from accomplishing anything constructive, too.

phinephancy. Good observation, and that won't sit well in Michigan or any other state where the auto loan saved jobs.

AMY, that's funny!

Albany Joe, you really are out of touch with what the OWS is about. They are not anti-business or anti-wealth; they are about getting money out of politics and returning it to the people; they are about fairness for every worker not just a few. But go ahead, Joe, continue to post uninformed comments because such poor analysis and lack of comprehension makes the case for the 99% stronger.

I think Backhouse's (err I mean Navy) best post is 2. That way there are no lies spread.

But you are extremely careful to not expose these "lies" ~ just a simple broad brush condemnation of the entire post. Frankly, I thought Backhouse was quite generous in his comments about the GOP candidates. He could have been far more acerbic but chose civility instead.

Backhouse and David Walker -

Thanks to both of you for illuminating the core issue of the 2012 campaign:

What kind of a nation do Americans want to have?

Do we want a country like Russia is today, ruled jointly by a cartel of very large businesses and banks (some of which are American) and organized crime, broken into a squabbling set of "independent" states that by themselves are practically dysfunctional?

That's essentially the model offered by the ideologues of the Tea Party. It's the path that many of the U.S. states are now following, particularly Wisconsin, Texas, Ohio, and Florida. Not long ago, Gov. Perry's TExas announced it's eliminating nearly 100 physics major programs in Texas universities - and yesterday, Gov. Rick Scott said that his 2012 budget for Florida will aim to reduce or eliminate such university programs as anthropology, because there aren't many jobs for anthropologists. Gov. Scott's position is so completely ignorant it is stunning - he feels university education is simply a form of job training.

The Tea Party ideologues want to virtually eliminate the Federal government - except, of course, for defense contracts to build more planes, ships,and bombs. Their actual platform is to NOT govern. They believe in 19th-century lifeboat psychology - this lifeboat is MINE, you can sink or swim.

On the other hand, President Obama has been leading an effort to define America as a real nation, one in which the sum of its parts is greater than the whole. This is the kind of nation envisioned and built by the President's great predecessors, from Lincoln to both Roosevelts, to Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and (to a lesser extent) Clinton. Iit was and must become again a nation that includes all of its citizens in access to prosperity, protection from the rapacious and the despoilers, unceasing striving toward justice and equality, and compassion for the unfortunate.

That's what this election is about. That's what the Occupy Wall Street protests are about. That's why we must repeat, over and over - the 2012 elections are literally about our sense of our nation.

Jody -- Well Perry sure sounds like Spanky, Michelle like NJNB at times......but she did take David's joke serious which is scary. Ron was just Ron. Mr Grinch sounded like Mr. Grinch. Romney and Huntsman competed for Mr. Wonderful award and Cain needs to get to QVC quick. Santorum spoke up a debate too late and some could argue a few centuries too late. Did I miss anyone????

Now this post is all in fun and I really did learn a few things on where the candidates stand on certain issues so it was worth watching and more importantly everyone should be paying attention.

Well said all, who want to see this Radical Right stopped.

John A, "What kind of a nation do Americans want?"

I do not want a nation where the Ratio of Pay of CEO:avg. worker is 475:1

I want a jobs program that will fix our broken infrastructure, a living wage for middle class families. Families that have to pay $9,000 a year for good childcare in MN cannot make it working for $10.00 a hour.

I want clean air and water...

This is the beginning of my list of priorities for Amercia .

Albany Joe -- Go pick on people at your income level. Have a little respect for a persons rights. Isn't that what you are suppose to do as a judge. But since you find the whole thing so amusing perhaps you'd like to donate money to the cause. They are using crowd funding sources and donations can be done online at a few sites. It's the least you can do after insulting the very rights you are suppose to uphold.

Bachouse

Your post is an excellent one. I always enjoy reading a rational post with factual information. The Dems in the Senate did exactly like you said what we knew they would. Actually, I don't consider them Democrat. They are DINOs and Dixecrats (remnants left over from those disgruntled by LBJ signing the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1965) They are restive and should be voted so they can take their pent up frustrations right over to the Republican party. The Dems did new blood.

This is because -- despite its Northern, progressive elements -- the Democratic Party was ironically the historic home of Jim Crow.

I'm not try to inject race; but Jim Crow laws effected civil rights and that is what they and the GOP are doing; primarily with voter suppression of gays and suppressing women the rights to their bodies.

No Bain and Company trash for president!

Doesn't anyone have the intestinal fortitude to address the questions and reality posed in 1.7 in an honest and thoughtful attempt. Crickets????? Prove my assumptions wrong.

Romney is NOT a sure thing, Herman Cain continues to get more and more support and the media just ignore it because they don't want people to know Republicans aren't racist. Cain is the most articulate, and he doesn't have the baggage that comes with Romney and Perry. (Romney Care) (Mandatory Vaccinations from Perry)

Herman Cain For President 2012!!!

He had another strong debate performance last night; he picked up Chris Christie’s endorsement yesterday; and more and more members of the GOP establishment continue to break for him

Well, now we know why Christie had that big dog and pony show to say no to running once again....to give more weight for a Romney endorsement. I wont vote for an establishment candidate, and I dont think I am alone.

Northstar -

Good beginning to a list. Keep them coming. This is exactly the point of raising the question!

And by the way - much of your list and additions to it should be sent to the OWS people. With it could be some specific goals - legislation perhaps reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act, changes to the capital gains tax "reforms" made under Reagan that underlie much of the income inequality and short-sighted business management methods, changes to labor laws that now encourage exploitation of "temporary" workers and unfair calculation of overtime wages.

The right-wing ideologues want to roll back not just regulations, but virtually all social, scientific and political progress in America since 1840.

Some of us also want to roll back some events - primarily the incompetence and malignity of the two Bush Regimes and the ultra-corrupt Reagan Regime!

"Hiya kids, hiya, hiya." Froggy

Ok, now I'm just starting to feel sorry for Michelle Bachman and the people of Minnesota who voted for her. 9-9-9 = "666"? Really? Seriously? Aw, c'mon Minnesota, you can do better than this.

I didn't watch the debate last night. I watched "The Biggest Loser", but come to think of it, they are kind of the same thing aren't they? Only as far as the GOP/TP/LDS "contestants" are concerned it is the American people who will be the biggest loser if any of them actually get elected.

And how about that Chris Christie. Less than a week after he says he'll stay in New Jersey and fulfill his obligations to the people who elected him governor he's now flirting with the idea of being the VP nominee? Chris, two words, SARAH PALIN.

Let's not forget about those nasty Koch Brothers, kings of the one-percenters or Rupert Murdoch and the evil threat that FOX News poses to our country. How can any intelligent person watch that garbage? Oh wait, I just answered my own question, the operative word there is "intelligent." My bad.

Ok, well, I think you all have it under control so I'll just mosey along. I've got a tire dealership trying to pull a "bait and switch" on me this morning and BOY are they going to be sorry. Bwhahahaha.

Have a nice day everyone, keep up the good work.

"Plunk your magic twanger Froggy."

America held hostage, day 285.

Obama/Biden 2012

First of all Ray, it is not a forgone conclusion that the house is going to stay in the hands of the republicans.

I know the republicans have been rigging the voting all over the country. Think it will be enough? First Citizens United unlimited money and now rigging the elections by making it harder to vote. I can tell the republicans really believe in freedom and democracy.

After the republicans vote last night on the jobs bill, looks like I need to find me a OWS protest.

If you believe in fairness and freedom a vote for a republican is the kiss of death for America.

Hey Skippy -- How about educating us on how the House has to take up the American Jobs Act first under the Constitution since you called it a revenue bill!!!! LOL!!!! OOPS -- The Senate did it first.

@AF -- I said "almost" foregone" conclusion. But based on the scenarios I proposed, how does re-electing Obama get anything done????? He, nor you, nor anyone else will persuade the Republicans to cooperate -- right or wrong -- that's what America is faced with. So where should we go?

One of these Republicans are going to win the Presidency in 2012. Maybe you all should help get Cain or Paul in there instead of what YOU KNOW you are going to despise. Lets give somebody outside the loop of serpents a try! How has the endless loop of establishment rule been working out for ya?

Hey Ray, What the hell rock did you just crawl out from under? You think it's a good idea that Republicans gain conrol of both the Senate and the House? Really? They're already on a tear to strip the middles class of their way of life as well as their security by destroying Social Security and Medicare. By giving them the Senate as well we virtually guarantee the end of these two vital programs for the middle class. And it's not a foregone conclusion that the House will stay in Republican hands. The more people understand and come to realize that Republicans don't give a good damn about the middle class and that they intend to destroy us, the more the pronouncement of yours becomes a fairy tale. The best thing for this president and this country is for Republicans to demonize the the people that are out there protesting and to continue to refuse to do anything to help get this economy going again. You're dead wrong on this one and the next 9 months will prove you are.

i missed the beginning of the debate but i heard all the republican candidates were cramed into a little car that drove on to the stage.

laurie -

GOOD for you!

And SO true, too!

Would you please consider giving some thought to adding your comments to the discussion about what kind of America you want?

And, Skip, let's have some links to the movies about the mahout, if you can find any.

Why are we paying congress when they are not accomplishing anything anyway? As far as Romney being a "sure thing".........I don't think so.

"Obama’s jobs bill stalls in the Senate"

The Congressional Budget Office says that Obama's 'Jobs Bill' would increase Deficits by $417 Billion over the next 2 years, and virtually all of the 'jobs created or saved' would be for union workers. This is just more of the same 'big spending' policies as 'Stimulus 1' which was supposed to 'keep unemployment under 8%' but was a huge flop. Here is the link to the government's CBO site – See Table 1;

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/124xx/doc12470/s1549.pdf

PS – The CBO says that the $862 Billion 'Stimulus 1' may have 'created or saved' 1 million jobs, at a cost to the taxpayers of $862,000 per job – most of which ended when the money ran out. In contrast, the typical private sector employer pays the average employee about $42,000 per year to produce a product or service that can actually be sold for a profit, at a cost to the taxpayers of $0. I wonder who is more 'efficient' at creating jobs? Do we REALLY want a 'Stimulus 2' which will only make us 'Another day older and deeper in debt'? (Apologies to Johnny Cash)

cantakenomore

Gawd Feisty...

Another 1st in line? Really? Do you just sit around and wait for new articles to post? Have a life?

Your liberal mantra is very old and tired.

Um, cantankerous

I fail to see what your post has to do with any topic Mark and Domenico have so eloquently put together for us to discuss.

Why are you in such dire straits?

Are you that dire?

More like desperate... lol

Well hey - give Obama credit, he's finally found a way to get votes from both parties on the same bill.

Of course they were votes against his bill, but hey, this was an improvement over his dismal budget [97-0].

But the best part about you libbies is the abject denial. Two dems voted against the procedure, but at least 6 more were no votes on the bill itself.

But sure - you want to pretend that was not the case, and that Obama has an actual clue what to do.

He doesn't, things will continue to get worse, and 2012 will be a landslide. No matter who the GOP nominee is.

But whatever you all do, don't stop lovin' Obama. He's depressed and needs your support. Think about how hard this is for him. He's only ever gotten love and praise. Now all he gets is smacked and heckled, by his own party.

But not here, right First Readers?

Backhouse: " The vote on the American Jobs Act last night was a nod to the grotesque reach and ability of Big Money in America to rig the system so completely,...."

THAT'S STRANGE . Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any other politician in the last 20 years. What does that say??

Truth is, Obama's Jobs Bill would have been, at best, a "sugar high" for the economy, NOT a solution to the problems of chronic joblessness. Obama is desperate and needs a campaign slogan. He hoped "PASS THIS BILL" would help him.

ONE AND DONE.

@Laurie -- Show me one, just one legitimate poll/prediction that says the Democrats will take control of the House in the 2012 election. I said "almost" foregone conclusion. You also have to realize that SS and MC will change or they will not survive in their present state. A nation that comes together is better than a nation divided. Obama has driven the wedge so deep that his re-election will mean continuing the bad economic situation in this country -- more spending and debt if he gets his way (which he won't) or stalemate. Neither are good alternatives. Go back and review what was accomplished when Clinton was faced with a Republican Congress.

John A. -- Thanks for highlighting the efforts of some to diminish the importance of an education and in some cases prevent it. It reminded me that some would like to dictate by means of elimination an individuals right to obtain an education based on freedom of choice and freedoms in general. It is not just doubling down and dumbing down it appears to be an effort to control the masses. Sickening.

Backhouse/Northstar and even Joe in Albany -- Thanks for the perspective on the Jobs bill. The contrast could not be more clear and neither could the agenda that came forth from that vote. People are paying attention and in my opinion the Republicans will have to answer why not a single one could vote to at least move the bill forward.

Ray, you encourage people to vote Republicans in and Democrats out. And then you tell us that there is no way anyone can persuade Republicans to cooperate.

Lack of cooperation in government is the problem is right now. Why would we want to make it worse?

We need people in government who will respect the charge given them by their constituents. That is most certainly NOT the Republicans/conservatives/Tea Party.

I fear Romney, Perry, and many of the other Politicians on stage will give us the same crap we get year after year whether it be Republican or democrat in control. I'm looking for someone and something different. Ron Paul is a little to reckless on foreign policy matters so I'm leaning towards Cain and would like to hear more about his foreign policy beliefs. Economically he makes sense and has a plan that is a huge change, which is good because current tax code is to complicated and weighted to look fair but is not fair when implemented (G.E. pays no taxes, Solyndra). Obama had great speeches but as been a reck and his latest jobs plan isn't even supported by most democrats, I'm sorry, take it any way you want, but the economy sucks, Egypt is killing Christians, Libya is still in a state of war that we decided to get involved in, Iraq is the same under Obama as it was under Bush and so is Afghanistan.

This is what happens when you put Democrooks in charge. It’s the Chicago way.

From MSDNC.com:

'Insane' even by Illinois standards? Union official to get $500,000 in pensions

Joint investigation by Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV finds at least eight labor leaders stand to get pensions from both the city and union for the same time period

A labor leader in Chicago is expected to receive pension payments of nearly $500,000 a year, while another could get about $438,000 a year, according to reports Wednesday.

The Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV, which obtained information about union pension benefits during a joint investigation, said at least eight union officials in Chicago were eligible for what were described as inflated city pensions on top of union pensions for the same period of employment.

The news organizations said this was due to "a charitable interpretation" of Illinois law by officials representing two city pension funds.

"Can you name any place in the world where someone can get two pensions for the same job?" state Rep. Tom Cross, a Republican, told the paper. "Even by our standards here in Illinois, it's beyond belief. It's insane."

Chicago and Illinois are facing financial trouble, in part due to pension shortfalls.

Ray (numbers) wrote: "...what is the reasoning for re-electing a POTUS who can't lead and confront his opposition with dignity and develop a coalition?"

I've heard this from right-wing commentators on news programs (as well as other BS). President Obama has been conciliatory from day one of his election to complimenting his opponents to offering olive branches to conceding way more than he should have to, and yet the Teapublicans remain absolutely uncompromising. And don't blame it on the president's lack of leadership--How many times has Boehner had to go back to the drawing board?

The real story behind this complaint is disappointment by right-wingers that the president will no longer water down bills to the point that we no longer recognize it to get a paltry two votes from Maine, who have been threatened with being "primaried" by Teabaggers so even these votes are gone. The reality is any offer, even with large spending cuts including entitlements will be refused because the Teapublicans want the economy to suck and the president to fail. And they use "tax hikes" during a recession as their excuse for unconstitutional pledges to outside lobbyists.

The majority of Americans support the surtax on millionaires, and support investment in infrastructure, and most of the Jobs Act--What part of helping Veterans does the GOP/TP not like? That Teapublicans are willing to obstruct the will of the people can only be explained by putting Party before country. The growing Occupy Wall Street movement is the result, and even sniveling Cantor has made an "about face," and rightfully so.

Let's hope voters throw these uncompromising Teapublican anarchists out in 2012. The recall of Scott Walker is another good step between now and then. Also efforts to repeal all the chicken crap from union-busting to supressing the vote, etc. A word to Dems who also put their seats before best interests, like Ben Nelson in Nebraska, your seat is in jeopardy because you should have ran as an Independent who is not loyal to any platform. May the Occupy movement grow, and may they all get out the vote in 2012.

Don't carry it all- I for one am glad that the stimulus #2 failed...it failed the first time, and it would fail now. The thing this president needs to do is find a direction and continue with it. Obama he has changed direction like the wind, and business don't now which way is up.

The problem is this LOOSER ROMNEY has released his list of advisers for U.S. Foreign affairs and he is IGNORANT enough to include MOST of the hideous, lying staff that George "W"(orst President in U.S. history) Bush had infested the White House with.

15 of the 20 advisers Romney has slated were the same criminals Bush listened to.

______________________________________________

INCLUDING the moron who lied about Saddam "trying to get Uranium from Africa". This A$$ hole should be in prison, not slated to help a "Presidential Candidate" destroy our foreign affairs again!

______________________________________________

This guy Romney is a mindless, dangerous, loser. A tool of the same financial powers who ran the war criminals Bush/Cheney "administration"!

Ah, look at True Patriot, already with the hysteria and fear. Anarchists? Yeah, that'll fly.

Let's face the facts gang. Obama had his should he had a congress firmly in his control for 2 years. What did he do woth that control?

Boehner has been speaker for less than 10 months. Pelosi had the gavel for 5 years. Reid has control of the senate.

Obama is going to run against the congress. Great - the DNC controls 1/2 of that body.

Fact is the DNC concedes the Senate. That's why all the dancing this last week over theturgid POS, couldn't even get support from dems Jobs Bill.

Them dems know a loser when they see on. They are running away from Obama.

23 Dem Senators TruePatriot. They know what's up. OR maybe they listen to you? Sure they will.

But it's cool cause OWS is gonna get you all $20 per hour, whether you work or not, and relieve all that pesky debt you have accumulated over your life.

So you got that going for you.

I have been a democrate and i voted for obama.But after a long analysis of what obama has done so far i am convinced that he is not for the working middle class.As result of that i have changed to registering republican and i will be voting for Ron Paul in the upcoming primary election.Call it what you want, I have reviewed all the candidates stand on the issues and i agree with Ron Paul the most If we and i mean both republicans and democrates dont come together to combat all of corporate controlled crap that is being thrown at us we will all lose.That why i have taken the first step in trying to do what i feel is right and not following so-called party lines. The fueding will get us no where.I know that other people are talking about doing what i just did, i say it is time to quit talking about it and do it.Show America that WE the people are the people and we will not be divided, but we stand together in solidarity for a common goal to make America a better place to live.

INCLUDING the moron who lied about Saddam "trying to get Uranium from Africa". This A$$ hole should be in prison, not slated to help a "Presidential Candidate" destroy our foreign affairs again!

Please do some actual research, Saddam DID request to buy Uranium from Africa. The famous Joe Wilson wrote a New York Times Editorial saying he investigated it and it wasn't true and that Bush lied, but the report Wilson submitted to the CIA said the exact opposite, he detailed how Saddam did make request but didn't get very far with those request. Seriously, know the facts!

Dear LogicRequired,

You are right to fear Romney, Perry, et al, since they are all promising to be the 3rd George W. Bush term. They are all in favor of low taxes for the corporations and upper income earners , complete deregulation of the financial industry and (except for Ron Paul) continuing war and defense spending. Those were also the promises made by McCain in 2008 , and that the voters wisely passed on. On the othe hand, Mr. Cain's tax plan will increase the deficit and shift more of the tax burden onto the poor and the middle class. The rich and the corporations will pay 9%, instead of the 16% and 11% they are averaging today respectively. [Pay no attention to those who claim the top rate is 35%; they are not paying that.] Everybody else will pay 18% when you throw in the new sales tax. Oh, yeah, he doesn't have a clue on foreign policy.

As far as support for the Obama job plan, 47 Republican Senators voted to keep it from even being discussed. Fifty Democrats voted in favor, but thanks to the undemocratic trick known as the filibuster, a minority can block the majority from even debating a bill. The GOP has mastered that technique.

The wars? We were losing a rifle squad every week in Iraq in 2008. That is no longer the case. In fact, we have significantly reduced the number of forces there and have no combat operations under way. We were losing in Afghanistan in 2008, that is no longer the case and we are now beginning to exit. Remember when McCain told us we needed to stay as long as we have been in Germany and Korea? Quick, how many US troops have been killed in Libya?

Spanky-

He doesn't, things will continue to get worse, and 2012 will be a landslide. No matter who the GOP nominee is.

Spanky-

It won't get worse, wait it will for the DINO/DIXECRATS when they get voted out. America got bushwhacked once; consequently it won't be a GOP land slide. Check out the polls and the movements all over this land. That cross eyed Badger governor in Wisconsin is being re-called. Hint

But whatever you all do, don't stop lovin' Obama. He's depressed and needs your support. Think about how hard this is for him. He's only ever gotten love and praise. Now all he gets is smacked and heckled, by his own party.

What evidence have you that suggests the President is depressed?

Yes we do love him and will continue to "Press On" counselor/ waaambualance chaser; thank you very much.

Yes WE Did and Yes We Can Do More

Obama/Biden 2012

http://ametia.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-biden-2012.jpg?w=150

Great Call Bev. Vote out all themDino/Dixiecrats.

And about Walker - you all said you were going to retake the Wisc. Senate. You all invested a crap load of $. and yet, the Senate is still firmly held but the Republicans.

Because of Rove/The Kochs/whoever you Bogey man is today.

And I know you are sad, so if it helps to call me an ambulance chaser, fell free.

Too bad so many of your fellow libbies are so rapidly falling out of love.

I love how th normal liberal trolls are blaming the Republicans for blocking the "jobs" bill, and not the Democrats who voted against it. Poor liberals. It must be tiring finding new targets to blame everytime something doesn't go your way. Don't worry. It seems "Blame Bush" still works on a few of you brain trusts.

steveiam

Excellent post!!!

May I suggest you keep your pointless posts coming? Always your post are about nothing.

What is rather amazing about Gov. Romney (although I shouldn't be surprised) is that bailing out banks was okay, but the automakers was bad. The thing is, the automakers provide real jobs. And now the automakers are one of the few manufacturers (what little we have left) that are hiring.

Glad to see I am not the only person who saw this.

So bailing out automakers, which saved millions of current and future jobs, and resulted in the money getting paid back... that was bad.

Bailing out the banks, which... well... BoA just laid off tens of thousands MORE jobs... that was good.

The only phrase which comes to mind is: WTF?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community

Is Romney a sure thing?

To quote the notorious Speaker of the House; 'OH HELL NO' he's not!

After reading the reviews this morning, it's not too clear the MSM/Corporations has hitched their wagon to the Willard convoy.

What you all are ignoring is the phenomenon you created called the tea party...

Sometimes, it's best to be careful what you wish for... ;o)

ted patrick, not sure how you came to the conclusion that President Obama is not for the middle class but you are wrong. You must not have been paying attention to GOPers in the Senate and House have been doing--they want to privatize social security, make medicare a voucher plan thus killing it, they have voted down nearly every jobs plan democrats and President Obama have tried to pass. President Obama cannot just sign a piece of paper to get things done, Congress must pass legislation.

Comment collapsed by the right wing goon squad on a mission to suppress the vote. it's kinda like the 999 plan. Say it often. Ha Ha it has 000 effect. you can't stamp out freedom

Foiled and "short-sighted"!!!

Herman Cain performance in the debate was foiled and "short-sighted."!!!

Hurricane's #999 train blew everyone away so much to the point even crazy eyed Michelle Bachmann used it as a reason for the republican to not pay their taxes. Michelle Bachmann spoke of it in glowing terms of it being turned upside down into 666 to reveal the devil in details

Umm, crazy eyes got it so right. 999 is a stupid plan. Blooomberg says 999 falls short.

Speaking of being foiled didn't Attorney General Eric Holder put a dent in the rightie talking points about incompetence?

How many terrorist plans have the Republicans foiled encouraged?

Ethics Complaint Filed Against Darrell Issa. Now whose corrupt?

FT: Is Romney a sure thing?

He is right as two left shoes.

• 27

• !

#1.4 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:20 AM EDT

Afternoon, everyone ...

Looks like I didn't miss much.

And about Walker - you all said you were going to retake the Wisc. Senate. You all invested a crap load of $. and yet, the Senate is still firmly held but the Republicans.

And Spanky still doesn't get it.

Let's see if we can edumacate him.

First, just to set the record straight -- Republicans now have the majority in the State Senate 17-16. It's hard to call this "firmly" when the swing vote is someone who actually voted AGAINST the repeal of collective bargaining rights. If you took that vote again, it would fail.

This means, of course, that those draconian provisions of Walker's agenda that did not pass before the recall -- most notably the school voucher provisioins -- have been stalled in the legislature.

You may not call that a "victory" for the Democrats, but it sure ain't a defeat.

Next, an update on the status of the recall, which is now scheduled to begin on November 15.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/capitol-report/article_51aacc22-f2ef-11e0-8801-001cc4c002e0.html

Yes, indeed, the plans are still to recall the Governor.

And finally, just for fun, a little status update on the Governor's ethics problems, including the John Doe probe where several of his top aides have already received immunity, there has already been at least one conviction, and the governor's own chief of staff had to resign the other day amidst allegations of improperly interfering with the hiring processes in order to give a job to the woman whose whom was raided by the FBI a couple of months ago in connection with the looming scandal.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ab275a22-eb8d-11e0-a41b-001cc4c03286.html

So guess again, Spankster. With unemployment now rising here faster than other surrounding -- and liberal -- states, despite all of Walker's braggadocio about how he created this alleged climate for growth, he's in a lot deeper trouble than you seem to think.

To the punk who has delusions of grandeur -- Compare apples to apples. In Pelosi's first term over 300 bills were passed, compared to something like 13 in Boehner's. The president can run against Congress based on who voted for the jobs act and who didn't, and we know which half was the Borg United that voted against it.

And no doubt you believe people should listen to your immature, narcissistic swoop and poop proliferation, because in your tortured, fevered need for attention that's how you cope with your dismal existence. Regular FR posters are well aware of your ad hominen attacks as a cry of desperation. Since FR hasn't banned you, hopefully everyone will collapse your posts again. In the meantime you are now being ignored.

Back on topic -- John A., et al, and the Glass-Steagall Act, this is part of a video of Elizabeth Warren's testimony that is being circulated in affiliation with the Occupy movement that includes Enron and other warning signs that were ignored before the meltdown. And your description of present day Russia is one of transition from communism to fascism -- a pro-military corporatist dictatorship. But you need to throw in theocracy (Christian Sharia Law) for the full description of what Teapublicans want our country to be.

Anyone against "Too Big To Fail" should be a part of the Occupy movement and voting out Teapublicans seeking to repeal all regulation of Wall Street and banks. Gingrich' saying Frank and Dodd should go to jail instead of some individuals at Goldman-Sachs, etc. is truly twisted. What planet do the right-wingers live on?

Damn.......That popcorn butter top could take a dog poop and make it look like a tootsie roll!

John A.

Mahout????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obama/Biden 2012

This article is ridiculous, we haven't even had the first primary yet, if we went by this BS last time then Obama would not have been the Dems candidate . True Patriot are you talking to yourself, regular posters I believe this vine is open to all people not just "you regular" posters.

Skip -

During the Buster Brown Show, when Andy Devine instructed Froggie to "pluck your magic twanger," it was the signal to show another episode of the running story of a young mahout in India and his adventures with his two young British friends. A "mahout" is an elephant driver. In the series, either an elephant calf or a small adult was used. They were cool tales, reminiscent of Kipling.

TP -

I pulled the general characterization of modern Russia from Naomi Klein's outstanding book about the way Milton Friedman/Chicago School of Economics theories were implemented around the world, and in the U.S. Actually, just after the fall of the USSR, I was a background consultant to the Dean of the Pepperdine University School of Law, who was the main U.S. advisor to Boris Yeltsin. The situation there went from bad to worse as the Chicago boys gained influence and wrecked what might have been a elatively prosperous, modern country in the new Russia.

Just about everyone in the OWS movement should be checking out Klein's work, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism.

John A. -- The Shock Doctrine is excellent, and where I get my often repeated phrase "profits are privatized and debt is socialized." I believe the book was published before the meltdown, thus very insightful. I would love to chat--if you are interested feel free to "click" me.

wlee (numbers) -- It is not my intention to exclude anyone, rather the regulars who post know who "swoops and poops" versus those who contributemeaningful substance. But the ad hominem attacks, especially toward specific participants is completely unacceptable, veiled or otherwise.

LogicReguired

"Please do some actual research, Saddam DID request to buy Uranium from Africa."

Dear "LogicRequired", thanks for your misplaced comments,, I did lots of research.

If you are naive enough, and so totally without logic to expect anyone (other than complete moron) to believe that Saddam was trying to build a nuclear devise, then your posts do not merit further comment.

Iraq is an immoral war based on lies from the worst "administration" in American history. (Absolute war criminals who should be sitting in prison.)

Good luck with your logic. Take care.

_______________________________________________________________________

Again, Romney has ignorantly slated 15 (out of 20) of the dangerous MORONS who advised Bush/Cheney as foreign affairs advisers. Totally unacceptable and inept!!!!!!!!!!!

Beverly...

Feisty is just an MSNBC goon...that's why she gets to spew her left leaning drivel first, each and every day. Comical, though...very comical indeed!

Get over your conspiracy theories. There are trolls who love to disrupt FR, or ditto heads who condone Limbaugh's Operation Chaos, or Teapublicans in Wisconsin who run fake Democratic candidates, but projecting yourself on MSNBC and regulars who post here like Feisty as paid contributors just goes to show how delusional you people are.

In fact, if you want to get all conspiratorial why not comment on Teapublican efforts to bust unions that support Dems, to screw with the electoral college, to suppress the vote, and real machinations going on out there? Contribute to the conversation or move along.

Patriot...

C'mon...admit it. She has an inside track...many times she has a 4-5 paragraph response posted within 1 minute of the vine being posted. No one could be that prepared without being from the inside.

As far as her contributions...they suck. She never has anything to say unless it's bashing the republicans.

You know...republicans, bad...democrats, good! Nothing more...pretty shallow if you ask me.

John A.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHOooooooooooooooooooooo, now I get it. I very vaguely remember that now that you mention it.

I know what a mahout is, he's the guy who drives the elephant, kinda like the Koch Brothers or brother Norquist.

Obama/Biden 2012

...or George Soros?

If you ask liberals, George Soros is merely buying off major elections to push his agenda, and since it is also their agenda, it is fine.

So, if George Soros is so powerful, relative to ... say ... the Koch Brothers or Karl Rove's organizations, then how do you explain the 2010 elections?

Anna...

Because reasonable people voted out the libbies in droves. The reasonable people saw through the smoke and mirrors of the left and saw them for who they really are. If you think 2010 was something...you haven't seen anything yet. Conservatives will mop the floor with the libs and the current POTUS will be ushered out on his keister! It's beautiful, I tell you!

Soros could care les about the Congress. He has a puppet in power that acts like he doesn't have to listen to them anyways. Besides, Soros is too busy buying off Secretaries of State and instituting new rules on how Judges are elected in swing states.....you know......the people who certify election results, then decide if the election was legal and on the up and up? Yeah, nothing shady about that at all. This is, of course, a man that turned in his fellow Jews during the Holocaust to save his own neck. Way to champion and associate yourselves with a monster like that.

Wow, scary stuff...you need to turn off Glenn Beck once in a while to save your sanity.

Some things never change. Forty years ago the John Birch Society (cofounded by Fred Koch) was telling their followers that there was a giant Socialist/Communist conspiracy seeking to turn our sovereignty over to the UN. Armand Hammer was only pretending to be a Capitalist, but his real goal was overthrow of the free market system. Even the Republican Party was infested with Communist plants including Nelson Rockefeller and an impending world monetary collapse made it imperative for people to buy precious metals.

Now the Tea Parties (cofounded by Fred Koch's sons) is telling their followers that there is a giant Socialist/Communist conspiracy seeking to turn our sovereignty over to the UN. George Soros is only pretending to be a Capitalist, but his real goal is overthrow of the free market system. Even the Republican Party is infested with Socialist plants including John McCain and an impending world monetary collapse makes it imperative for people to buy precious metals.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/23/section-527-works-to-seat-liberals-as-election-ove/

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704370704575228461914892980.html

These aren't hard to find.......

Thanks for joining me in my opposition to limiting the rights of the people to vote, a topic upon which Republican legislatures have been highly active this year.

Hey Sally or Tyler...

How does Feisty get restored but others not? She continually bashes republicans, makes fun of conservatives, calls others names, etc. I suspect she is a paid MSNBC employee due to the lack of you wrist slapping her. Has she ever been suspended for a day/week?

Uh.....John B. You might want to re-read those. Soros is buying election certifiers in battleground states, and changing how judges are chosen so he can pay them off as well. If that's not "limiting the rights of people to vote", I don't know what is. My point was, both sides have their "boogeymen", it just seems like liberals refuse to see that Soros is a monster, doing the exact same things.

.

California Tom - How about Joe Biden? Why not Obama/Biden 2012?

Obama/Biden 2012

The problem is this LOOSER ROMNEY has released his list of advisers for U.S. Foreign affairs and he is IGNORANT enough to include MOST of the hideous, lying staff that George "W"(orst President in U.S. history) Bush had infested the White House with.

15 of the 20 advisers Romney has slated were the same criminals Bush listened to.

______________________________________________

INCLUDING the moron who lied about Saddam "trying to get Uranium from Africa". This A$$ hole should be in prison, not slated to help a "Presidential Candidate" destroy our foreign affairs again!

______________________________________________

This guy Romney is a mindless, dangerous, loser. A tool of the same financial powers who ran the war criminals Bush/Cheney "administration"!

John A., et al, and the Glass-Steagall Act, this is part of a video of Elizabeth Warren's testimony that is being circulated in affiliation with the Occupy movement that includes Enron and other warning signs that were ignored before the meltdown. And your description of present day Russia is one of transition from communism to fascism -- a pro-military corporatist dictatorship. But you need to throw in theocracy (Christian Sharia Law) for the full description of what Teapublicans want our country to be.

Anyone against "Too Big To Fail" should be a part of the Occupy movement and voting out Teapublicans seeking to repeal all regulation of Wall Street and banks. Gingrich saying Frank and Dodd should go to jail instead of some individuals at Goldman-Sachs is truly twisted. What planet do the right-wingers live on? Do you really want the working class tax payers on the hook for risk taking by the rich, who will be rewarded with profits and huge bonuses while you are punished with decimation of your home equity and 401ks, high gas prices, etc.?

The ignorance makes my hair hurt.

in response to Close the Fed

You are correct that Romney is not the choice. None of them are and that goes for Obama. You were wrong with Bush as worst president ever. That award goes to Obama with another dem Carter in close second. Wake up and smell the roses...er s#@*. We need someone for the people and not the party. Doesn't matter which party. They both stink. It is not about the "Party" - It is about the Have's and the Have Not's. Now which do you think we are and which do you think they are. Hmmm...got your attention? They equate themselves as England's royal family. Look at the benefits they get for being there while we get the scraps. We need to stand up for ourselves and vote everyone of them out and replace them with the right people that will stand up for the people and not their party or constituants. God Bless America

Hey, Bird

Do you know any penguins? LMAO

tick tock, baby, tick tock.

Interesting, I see President Obama trying to get stuff through Congress all the time with negative results. While you RILE against the system, you measure all people in Congress or the Whitehouse as equals at fault. President Obama has tried to help the middle class by ensuring health care benefits for everyone (you may not like the plan, but he moved the ball; i would have perferred medicaid for everyone); taxes in the country has not been this low in 40 years; he is trying to get more Americans to work, but the republicans are suddenly worried about the deficit they created (just in case you forgot - 2 wars started unpaid for; 2 massive tax cuts unpaid for (note: one of the tax cuts were give after he started the second war); all war spending kept off the account ledger to confuse the general public about government spending. NO SPENDING ON EDUCATION, R&D; HIGH SPEED RAIL; CONSTRUCTION, ROADWAYS or AIRPORTS IN THE UNITED STATES under a republican congress or president. All parties have their pet agenda, but how come the democratic agenda always seem to include the citizens of this country and what we need. JUST IMAGINE a country were the republican after PRESIDENT CLINTON had decided to make health care an issue when the country had a budget surplus or investment in our infrastructure with the money or actually putting some real money behind the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND program; instead, we got wars. OH SNAP, I DO BELIEVE IT WAS THIS PRESIDENT THAT ACTUALLY ORDERED BIN LADEN's DEATH. The other president started off saying we will not rest and will track him down wherever he's at TO 6 years later, BIN LADEN is no real threat any longer and is probably in cave hiding. LOL!

Bird your actually wrong. George W Bush, was by public opinion rating, the worst president in US history with his approval rating hovering at 22% to 23 % when he left office. Carter nor Obama came been remotely close to that number while in office. Neither one being below 30%. Just setting your facts straight, that and the fact that there is no GOD. You guys really need to get over yourselves with that clique...Just vote for the lessor of all evils. Who it is will still be in the arms of the power brokers. This down turn was a 10 year deal when it happened and it will be another 6 years before it straightens out. The next president will be toast as well, the one after however, will be the rain maker and the one who rides the new wave of optimism into a 2nd term. My money's on it....

speaking of waking up...The award for worst president in modern times will be to the "mission accomplished" guy who brought the country to the brink of financial ruin with two off the book unnecessary wars and a fixation on seeing just how far wall street would go with no a policy of federal de-regulation on all matters. God Bless America is right...there is just no low low enough to educate some voters.

you members of the RETHUG Borgian collective need to remember one "MINOR" detail - the RETHUG hive leadership will NOT support nomination on their watch of a MORMON to be POTUS.

WAY too many rightwingnutreligionazis in the leadership to allow, nay, even CONSIDER it.

Great video IR, thanks for sharing. It is shameful that the likes of Hannity can have their voice heard and our vets have to go out and demonstrate to have theirs heard. Talk about a screwed up country that is being screwed by the corporate shills.

So, Liberal Fake Redneck: In the video, the interviewer says "un-American" but you claim that Hannity called the protesters "anti-America." Which is it? There is a big difference in those words. And why should we take your word for it anyway? Or the interviewer for that matter? Do you have a clip of Hannity saying whatever you and the guy in the video claim he said or do you just take the word of some leftwing website that probably twisted his words around?

Maybe the right-wing media should take a que from the left-wing media and look into these guys the way they did Joe The Plumber.

Damage you are an idiot, your post confirms it.

Damage.. What GBM said.

Wow IR, you struck a nerve ! Poor Damage is squirming! Good for you!

Prove I'm an idiot. Find me the video clip of Hannity saying what Liberal Redneck and the guy in the video claim he said. I'll be waiting. Come on, Gingerhead. You won't likely be posting anything of substance this whole day, which should give you plenty of time to find the clip. If you find it and it shows that Hannity actually said the protesters are "un-American", I'll stay off the board for the rest of the day.

Independent Redneck Va.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aaTGsGdp4c

Leave it to a couple of Mud Marines to put Mr. Hannity’s charge of anti- Americanism by the OWS protesters in its proper place.

Hoo Raah.

IR Yes Sir Hoo Raah indeed

It would be a thing for Peggy Noonan to gawk at that video.

Spooked By Occupy Wall Street, WSJ's Peggy Noonan Rewrites Tea Party Past

Tea Party counterparts is that the Obama critics were politically "mature," but that activists camped out at the southern tip of Manhattan are not. (See the 3:00 mark)

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110110008

This here video is accurate, even more bold, and hilarious...

FOX LIES...
'Fox News Lies!' OWS say protests in Lower Manhattan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLaYBgC_VQ

Faux news is comprised of LIES!!!

It is so sad and tragic the blockheads can't tell the truth.

Damage you are an idiot, your post confirms it.

Today is any different... HOW? lol

@Damage -- You make a great point. Keep on exposing the liberals for the liars they are. Keep calling them out to prove what they say. When you do that all they can do is call you names in violation of the COH on Newsvine.

Ray It ain't a COH violation if it's true

Wrong IR -- You may call public figures names all you want but calling a poster names is a violation. Your sarcasm is wasted.

Forget it Ray. They only "discipline" conservative violators of the supposed COH.

So go on people. Show me the proof of Hannity saying this. If it was so outrageous I'm sure there are clips of it all over your lefty websites. Let's see it. Could it be that the interviewer, and by extension, Fake Redneck are lying?

Floyd - do you know who died and left this little twerp in charge around here?

Damage:

If you could be any more ridiculous, I'm sure you would find a way. Hannity said "un-American".

So you throw down the gauntlet and say, "Prove I'm an idiot." I'll take care of that. Click on Damage123, and you will be treated to a wide array of inanities that could only be the product of an idiot's limited faculties. Admittedly, it is impressive that one can be wrong on so many issues. Such are the burdens of a limited intellect.

In any case, to return to Hannity's remark, I offer the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Did you catch the part about the right of the people, peaceably to assembly? It's very, very, very American. Hannity doesn't care, he is paid to be stupid. It's a bonus to have people like you spreading his lies for free.

Dunno Red. I do believe that that awful smell in here is these two Yahoo's rubbing they're two brain cells together. Thank you David. Frankly I wouldn't have given them the satisfaction of dignifying such foolishness with as a complete an answer as you gave them.

Dearest David. Thank you for reminding us of the Tea Party people's right to assemble. Now, where is the clip or transcript of Hannity saying this? Remember, it was only a few weeks ago that you called people "liars" over some twist-up of words that you didn't like. I'm going by your standards here. I don't watch Hannity. Your implying that I do makes you a liar.

IR, that video says it all. Hannity and Friends on FOX cheered the Tea Party as real Americans taking democratic action yet the 99%ers are unAmerican. Kind of like the GOP claims that democrats who didn't support the wrong-headed Iraq War were unpatriotic. Hannity & Friends sing the same tune but change the words to suit their narrative.

Damage, perhaps you are just a fool on a nitpicking mission.

Damage writes:

Prove I'm an idiot.

The proof is found within the US constitution ~ "We hold these truths to be self evident."

Ray, do you find Liberal Fake Redhead not to be namecalling? Can't be a purist for one side while excluding the other.

Great Clip IR,

Like the Marine said and I also say to Hannity and the Radical Right and their gang that post here.

F--K Off.

@Jody who said: "Hannity and Friends on FOX cheered the Tea Party as real Americans taking democratic action yet the 99%ers are unAmerican.".........

Yeah, so? And when the Tea Party people were getting together you and your friends called them "un-American, racist, crazy" etc...And now on the flipside, you view the OccuMorons as true Democracy. What's the matter? You don't know how this all works yet? Jeeeez....

@Jody -- You are correct. Calling anyone a Liberal is the most vile, low-life name calling anyone can resort to. Shame on you Damage. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Proud to be liberal. Proud to love my country. Proud to support freedom of speech and the right to vote which the republicans are trying to kill.

If you believe in real freedom and want to continue to vote, vote for a liberal.

If you believe you and your kids should die of starvation and we should trash America before we raise taxes on the richest then vote for a republican.

I guess Norquist made it American to hate your country and to try and kill it. Republicans proud to kill America for the rich. I would say that being the most vile, low-life excuse for a human, honor belongs solely to the republicans.

Proud to be a liberal, proud to pay taxes, proud to be American and proud to vote for Obama/Biden 2012

Damage123

@Jody who said: "Hannity and Friends on FOX cheered the Tea Party as real Americans taking democratic action yet the 99%ers are unAmerican.".........

Yeah, so? And when the Tea Party people were getting together you and your friends called them "un-American, racist, crazy" etc...And now on the flipside, you view the OccuMorons as true Democracy. What's the matter? You don't know how this all works yet?

Destructive1

I know Herman Cain started the race card assault. Annnd... the Tea Party has some very racist people and elements in it as well as a bunch fake jingoists ones.

Ray - Get over yourself.....you're not that important and your name calling doesn't affect anyone but you....insignificant comes to mind.... I guess though it's the most thrill you're getting........hmm?

Americans First,

Go right ahead. You can feel proud all you want AND vote for Obama/Biden in 2012. They'll lose.

Most Americans will vote AGAINST them because we do NOT like FAILURE. Truth is, Obama/Biden will lose for that reason above all others.

Damage:

I've spent far too much time looking for proof that Hannity called the OWS protesters un-American. I am not going to spend the rest of my day trying to find such a quote. Thus, I am going to concede the point that he did NOT say that. Damned if I'm going to emulate JoAnna Smith or no jo and put up false quotes.

My apologies to all.

Now as far as your calling me a liar because I implied that you watched FOX news, I'm sure you'll offer me the same courtesy and show me where I implied any such thing. The mere fact that you are an idiot cannot be taken as proof that you watch FOX, although it's pretty darned close to prima facie.

To illustrate my point vis a vis implying. It would be like Sean Hannity saying the OWS protesters hated liberty. Yes, Hannity really did say that, and that pretty clearly implies an un-American stance.

Ray and Damage, since the two of you are so concerned about it, why don't the two of YOU find the clip of Hannity?

David -- Your integrity is refreshing.

If you would like to see a montage of Fox News reaction, including Hannity, here you go:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-5-2011/parks-and-demonstration

Personally, I like the part where Hannity claims that "the average American tax payer will be on the hook for the bailouts, and it is American to stress their frustration."... of course, that is in regard to the Tea Party. When these protestors share the same frustration, they "hate corporations and do not like freedom". So according to Hannity, when HIS team protests, they are American... when the other team protests, they hate freedom. Got it.

Also note the Fox News correspondents calling them Nazi's, "anti-America", "not America loving behavior", etc.

Spanky-

And I know you are sad, so if it helps to call me an ambulance chaser, fell free.

Might, I add telepathic but not very thoughtful?

You are so unreal.

Just trying to satisfy my own curiosity here, what is the difference between Mud Marines, and any other Marines? Why the distinction?

So IR if I call someone something I believe to be true its ok. So ....If I said a certain female on here was a fat aZZed BiOtCH ! Because in my mind its true, thats Ok? I mean have I been biting my tongue for nothing?

Mormons have a shaky past when it comes to being patriotic. Brigham Young once wished President Buchanan dead. Heber C. Kimball once prophesied that the South would win the war. And no wonder Christians are leery of Mormons, for their founder Joseph Smith once said about Christians,

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 270.)

And this,

(Regarding Joseph Smith's alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him.) . . .) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith,History of the Church, vol. 1, p. 5-6).

Mormon "prophet" John Taylor said,

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense.... Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, 1858, p. 167).

The founders of Mormonism hated Christians. And that sentiment still exists today. Even their prophet Gordon Hinckley said,

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak." (June 20, 1998, Deseret News)

If I said a certain female on here was a fat aZZed BiOtCH !

Well there you are JOS Harry...

How's the Naval weapons training err I mean, maintenance & installation working out for you? lol

I got plenty more where that came from...

*popcorn* anyone?

Jolly old: sometimes it's good to stay silent and be thought an antique rather than post and remove all doubt.

OoOoOoo So.....then ships duty stations deployments!

Pffft! Please tell me why I would be worried again?

Grindeal,

You dont get it. Read the Bible, then read the Book of Mormon. They testify of each other.

Lets check out some stuff your church leaders have said and see how we can miss interpret their words. Mormons are Christians, they are called the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATER DAY SAINTS

Jolly whatever floats your boat is okay by me. If you can't tell the difference between faux outrage and crossing over the line I'll leave it up to the moderators to show you the error of your ways............Karaoke no distinction really. Just a pet name for the difference between Marines that served aboard Ship and those that didn't. Another name for Ground Pounders.

I watched the video, never heard these devildogs distinguish themselves as such. Pure semantics, I know, but we're all Marines. Semper Fi

- SSgt USMC -

That being said, I'm taking my voice to the Occupy Las Vegas movement on Saturday, and also for the GOP debate Wednesday. Lets let our voices be heard. 99%

Most Marines rotate every two years. Marines that serve on board ships are small detachments that are deployed on any vessel with Nuclear weapons or Nuclear propulsion. The rest are usually on Gator boats or as you call them Mud Marines. The last ship I was on had a 16 marine detachment with a gunny sgt under the control of the ships weapons officer.

the "flight" Marines never needed to get dirty. The mud marines usually stayed dirty when they were out in the field and cleaned up when they got back. Some chief of staff tried to make it a requirement that airdales do some regular duty when they weren't on deployment (no idea of whether he succeeded or not - and for the records, I was "army" and hated every minute of it - back during "the draft" days)

There you have it Staff Sgt. The terminology may be a little dated for you and you are right the fellows on the video didn't make the distiction I did. As Jolly says most Marines are muddy rather than clean but they're Love of Country is never in question....Good on you and thanks for your service........Canary remind me to tell you someday about about how a fellow can end up in the Marines back in the good old "draft days". The judge said it was either join up our do the 90 days on the D. and D.

BTW I have a clean Marine almost nephew-in law serving in Afganistan. Mechanic on an F-16(?) from West by God Virginia. Got about a month left on this deployment and then him and my niece are getting married.

IR-- Tell him we are grateful for his service and congrats on his marriage!!

David, couldn't help but notice that you imply that people who watch Fox news are less then bright I guess you are referring to the majority of people in this country, I don't come on this vine very often, but it's always the same crap name calling, who wins the guy with the most insults, why don't you look for common things you can agree on using your idea's and leaving the name calling to the children.

BTW I have a clean Marine almost nephew-in law serving in Afganistan. Mechanic on an F-16(?) from West by God Virginia. Got about a month left on this deployment and then him and my niece are getting married.

Congrats to the new addition to your family IR. Here's to a long and healthy one. Now, where's the Rum Punch?

Karaoke I'll be sure to save the first Rum Punch for you. Unless we settle on something a mite stronger. We'll have a big Party down at the Dew Drop Inn along about the first of December and all F.R. posters will be invited. Friend and foe alike. You'll go on down the to Occupy Vegas and let me know what I can do to help them folks out. We'll do our best on this end of the country.......and Don't Carry I'll be sure to remember you to the Young Man too

doodie,

Anyone can self-identify as a Christian. It doesn't MAKE them Christians. The obvious disdain that Mormon leaders have for the Christian Faith shows this to be true. And think about this irony, considering the words of Mormon "prophet" Brigham Young:

"The Lord said I will not kill Cain, but I will put a mark upon him and it is seen in the face of every Negro on the earth, and it is the decree of God that that mark shall remain upon the seed of Cain and the curse until all the seed of Abel should be redeemed and Cain will not receive the Priesthood or salvation until all the seed of Abel are redeemed. Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the Priesthood, and if no other prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ. I know it is true and others know it. The Negro cannot hold one part of Government.

But the seed of Abel [the whites] will be ahead of the seed of Cain [the blacks] to all eternity. Let me consent today to mingle my seed with the seed of Cain, it would bring the same curse upon me. And it would upon any man. And if any man mingle his seed with the seed of Cain, the only way he could get rid of it or have salvation would be to come forward and have his head cut off and spill his blood upon the ground. It would also take the life of his children. It is said if a man kills another, that he takes that that he cannot give. If a man's head is cut off, his life is not destroyed or his spirit that lives. His tabernacle is destroyed. But I can make as good tabernacles as I can--if you do not believe it, look at my children. Such blood was shed in ancient days both of man and beast. There is not one of the seed of old Cain that is permitted to rule and reign over the seed of Abel and you nor I cannot help it." (Brigham Young, January 1852, "prophet" Wilford Woodruff Journals)

The Book of Mormon, that Joe Smith wrote, says,

2 Nephi 5:21 "a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

The Mormon Church has never apologized for it's 150 years of racism against blacks, and Willard Romney supports the Church and those past leaders. I find it extremely ironical that a black man, named CAIN, is running against a white Mormon for the Presidency. Brigham Young is probably turning over in his grave...

Spent sometime watching the Republican debate last night. Could have been the same debate from Reagan's time. These folks can't seem to move on from that time, and proposals that have never worked. The Corporate Masters of the Republican Party must be very pleased. They will continue to make a pile, further erode the protections of the middle class workers, and at long last enslave that group, eradicating that class forever.

The problem? They don't care that if you do not have a flourishing middle class, that society is sure to collapse. The only way you keep the United States as the leader of the world is to have diffuse boundaries between classes. Those who are poor must see a route into the middle class, the middle class must see away to prosper. If we don't see this as a priority, the United States will do badly in years to come.

But, when all is said and done, I don't think the owners of the Republican Party care. There is as much money to be made in the destruction of societies as there is in the building of them. As long as they get theirs, why should they care about the nation?

Do the rest of you care? I hope so. If you continued to be fooled into believing that Romney, Perry, Cain and the rest care about you....you can kiss the status of this nation goodbye.

If the Republicans are on the side of the so-called "1%" , and the Dems are on the side of the so-called "99%", it should be an easy ride to re-election for Obama next year, right? Or, are you one of those people who's so far to the left (like the OccuWeasels) that you think Obama is ALSO a corporate shill?

Truth is, this 1%...99% business is a bunch of crap. The protesters do not represent the middle class. They represent the "capitalism is evil and everything should be free" class.

Nothing has been established and these worn out arguments will not work. The American public is waking up to One Big A$$ Mistake Obama and will correct the error in November 2012.

Obama/Biden lied -- the democrat party died.

Then why are you so upset Damage? Seems like you would be much more relaxed if you believe anything that you post.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Spent sometime watching the Republican debate last night. Could have been the same debate from Reagan's time.

I think it is ridiculois for them to keep bringing up the ghost of the past that made this economy nearly disappear. They're all spooked; newday.

Great post newday

Keep telling it like it is. The tea suckers don't care

Damage is tired of the lies, false accusations, name calling, vile statements -- like most Americans -- that are spewing from the mouths of progressives like diarrhea. They are regurgitating the Hilly Pie they have been eating from socialists.

New hires cost firms far more than three thousand dollars- which is what the tax credit per employee works out to be. Firms will not hire new employees until a lack of workers costs them potential profits, and that will not happen while majorities fear that the economy is getting worse.

Obama's failures on the economy are actually preventing him from making any headway, because he has lost, almost entirely, the confidence of the people- both businesses and consumers.

Sims and Sargent won a Nobel Prize in Economics explaining the effect of Rational Expectations on the outcome of government policies. The takeaway for Obama? His past failures will ensure future failures.

With 70% of people expecting the economy to get worse, he has no chance whatsoever to have a positive outcome for any of his policies. Add to that his wooden headed unwillingness to adopt sound economic policy, and you have a complete failure of a presidency.

It is counter intuitive that cutting spending during times of economic weakness would spur the economy- but that is exactly what is necessary to jump start this economy. The weight of debt makes everyone feel poorer- and both businesses and consumers are acting on the fears of economic catastrophe, fed by debt.

Obama's belief that doing the same thing over again, (stimulous II), despite failure the first time, that Republicans, Bush, tsunamis, hurricanes, the Arab Spring, etc., are to blame for his failures, that he HAS succeeded, but no one gives him credit- all the victim rhetoric he spews on a daily basis- do not imbue the country with confidence. In fact, it has exactly the opposite effect.

The people he should be blaming are the media and the democratic party. They are the ones who put him in apposition he should never have attained. He was not educated, experienced, or fundamentally suited for the job. We are all suffering as a result of a wildly successful marketing campaign that delivered an empty suit to the highest office in the land.

It ends soon-January 2013.

Ray like the republicans lie to. The republican party are the gods of BULL$#!T. You should run for office your good at it to!

Sorry Damage, I totally support the occupiers and I know nothing is free which is why I've worked all my life, usually two jobs even when in college. Coming from a good Union (Iron Workers Union as a matter of fact - yes, you are welcome that you have TV, Radio and communications towers thanks to my late father and his friends) working class family we know nothing is free and we have to work twice as hard as the mega wealthy for every crumb we get paid. You just don't get it, the occupiers are working class people who realize that the 1% of mega wealthy were supposed to create jobs with their tax breaks - they did not, they lie and we no longer support them. Middle class is not a million dollar a year income, it is more like $50,000 to $100,000 a year so get off your high horse, you are just as greedy as the baggers and for some reason you have been brain washed to think those in the upper 1% actually care about you - duh, they don't! We don't live in an aristocracy, our country was not founded to be one and we in the working class have no intention of letting it turn that way for our future generations. yes, this is class warfare, been class warfare for a long time and we won't stop fighting until the upper 1% realize who actually works and makes this nation strong and it is not them, it is us, the middle working class. Without a strong middle working class we will not stand as a nation. I find it so funny that quite a few republicans tout the good old days, guess what, the good old days in the 40's and 50's were full of good paying union jobs - so yep, we can go back to those days and I bet there are a lot of unemployed folks who would love to have a good paying union or union scale job right about now and could have them if the greedy 1% actually did what they should be doing - creating jobs instead of hoarding their wealth. And the joke is on them - they can't do one thing with one single dollar once that casket is closed or the urn is sealed.

The truth will set you free - and that is what the republicans, teabaggers and mega wealthy 1% are afraid of!

Damage -

You have no idea what the OWS movement is about, or who it represents.

Tell you what - Go to a GA, if there is one near enough, and simply listen and observe.

If you do, I can assure you that you will want to retract the above statement of yours.

Thanks, Beverly! We have to keep pointing out the obvious for those who are oblivious!

Who's "upset", newday? I enjoy coming on here and exposing you people's twisting of the facts and truth. If the Republicans are out to destroy the middle class, wouldn't that be a little suicidal? I mean, who is it that votes for the Republicans? The MIDDLE CLASS. If the Repubs are only out to protect the "1%", they should be getting destroyed in elections and in the polls, right?

Ahhhh. I remember. People who vote for Repubs are all stupid people who are "voting against their own self-interests", right? A.) Who the hell died and left you in charge of deciding what other people's "self interests" are? B.) Since the middle class is so stupid and backwards, why would you want them voting for Democrats anyway?

Please, "Damage" is missing the point and probably watches "Faux News". The wall street protesters are folks across the middle class spectrum. Watch HBO's"Too Big to Fail" - if your not sick to your stomach after watching it simply retreat to your own reality or lack thereof in terms of what ails this country. It's sickening to know that the worlds fate rested in the hands of 8 mega financial institutions and still does. We are in this mess due to the avarice of the corporations, banks and that 1% of mega wealthy individuals that just got greedy. Fanny and Freddy Mac were just a scapegoats, the majority of those homeowners (middle and lower class) didn't default. It was upwardly mobile and rich people overextending themselves, buying rental properties and exploiting the housing market across the board, then the bubble burst. Wall Street made the derivative products and AIG wrote the insurance on bundled bad mortgage deals and in the end the big banks never lent the money that the Fed forced them to take to stabilize the markets. Lastly, add the $3T in war costs over the last 10 years and counting. Bottom line, we live in an oligarchy. If you don't take the profit out of politics, it won't matter who the president is or congress for that matter.

Like I said Damage, if you were confident about your position, you would not be showing such emotion. Go out and take a nice walk. It will calm you down.

I am incredulous at this comment from the article:

He didn’t have a massive flub, so there’s no bad YouTube moment like he had from the last debate.

Did everyone miss the part when Perry was asked to offer a specific plan, he said, "Hey, I've only been at this for 8 weeks unlike YOU guys, but we'll get a plan together soon." <paraphrased>

THAT comment alone should have kicked him out of the race.

What, he just decides to run for president without coming in WITH any plan? Geez!

I didn't see the debate as it wasn't available on my cable but followed the live tweets and saw clips. Interesting that when the tape was played of Reagan stating the case for raising taxes and eliminating the loopholes and special interest tax breaks, Mitt Romney and the others were visibly clueless as if they'd never seen or heard it before. They don't even know who Reagan really was because conservatives have carefully rewritten his lagacy into a Myth.

John B, NewdayD, Union Baby enjoyed your comments, well said.

Perry miscalculated thinking that his rugged good looks, his trophy wife, his well practiced drawl, and his local yokel Texas conservatives who play him like a Steinway would be sufficient to vault him to the forefront. He never envisioned that his falsely contrived record would be thoroughly examined or that his lamely inadequate rhetoric would be challenged for accuracy. One of the most influential conservatives within the Republican Party is still Karl Rove ~ and Perry had so little political sense as to alienate Rove before he ever got in
the presidential race. To merely say Perry is as dumb as dirt is frankly being quite benevolent.

Mav, so true, well said!

Jim, your assessment of Perry mirrors my own from day one. He believed his own cheering section and never looked at the big picture nor is he capable of introspection. To me he comes across quite impressed with his own success yet not realizing he is a tool for the true monied folk who pull his strings and he willingly dances to their tunes. An empty suit justly describes him.

no doubt, he will be the anointed one....(both he AND Cain are pro TARP by the way)......doesn't matter though what empty suit makes pres....the wars will continue, the illegals will continue their mass migration, welfare, food stamps and ALL the budget -busting entitlements will continue to flow.....

problem is, DAMAGE, that the RETHUGS no longer CARE about the "middle class" - their intent seems to be to enhance the money keeping ability of the "uber-rich" (or at least that SEEMS to be their agenda). As to the candidates, there is NONE among them WORTHY of my vote (and I DO MEAN WORTHY) . They are almost to a man (and particularly a WOMAN) a bunch of rightwingnutreligionazis with a garbled concept of what AMERICA IS and WHAT AMERICA NEEDS TO BE (shortsighted to a fault, worthless to a fault, incapable of recognizing the DIFFERENCE between WHEAT AND CHAFF - let alone SEPARATING THE TWO)

Of course, to even branch the subject that America NEEDS to reduce military spending by 40% and cut the number of overseas bases by 90% is, to them, ABSOLUTELY UNTHINKABLE! Why... if the gummint doesn't produce and buy all of that military junk, constituents in MY DISTRICT will be put out of work AND I WON'T BE RE-ELECTED <- THAT being the primary reason for opposing reduction in military spending.

nobuddy: judging by your post I'm sure information will not change your rant or your prejudices in any way, but if you're actually an illegal resident in this country, you cannot receive welfare or food stamps. as though there weren't REAL budget busting entitlements to whine about? (care to donate your social security?)

AP

I don't have any proof of this; but I have actually heard that there are some loopholes to the food stamps for undocumented person issue.

Well hearing rumors of someone getting away with something somewhere is hardly making the case that illegals are destroying our economy because of "entitlements". They can't receive entitlements since those are reserved for citizens...and if you think even citizens are having a great time getting them, you haven't seen what passes for "entitlements" in the past decades of There's a case to be made for tough immigration laws if you want to make it, but that isn't it.

AP

I would never make a case that illegals are destroying our economy; because I don't believe that to be the case. Undocumented status is not a felony. It is no worse than a Class B misdemeanor - like driving 10 mph over the speed limit. I was just stating that I had heard there are some 'hard ship' cases where there is a loophole. I will research and get back to you.

PS. Was Ron Paul absent from this debate or are we just not mentioning him?

Amy B. Portland, ME

Wow, First Read, I didn't watch the debates, but aren't you crossing the ole' objective journalism line a bit with:

Meanwhile, Romney continued to prove that he’s head and shoulders above the competition at these debates.

Or, were they really that bad?

Amy , they're worst. The lot of them has been labeled (appropriately) the race to the bottom. Thinking about it that is their intent -- ruin the economy and moral factors of this country. As far as journalism, WE KNOW whose pockects the MSM are in

He's always mentioned as an after thought Amy. He had an excellent showing again last night. The problem is he isn't "flashy" enough for the MSM.

His ideas and proposals are so drastically different to the way we've done business the last 30 to 40 years that most people don't want to accept them. I'm a dyed in the wool cynic. I take everything with a grain of salt and to my personnal shame, I haven't paid much attention to politics because I believed they were all croks that would say or do anything to get elected. I still largely feel that way with one major exception.

I believe in Ron Paul. I don't agree with everything he says in lock step, but I do believe he is honest and has the interest of our nation and her people ahead of his own personnal ambition. I have read 2 of his books and I intend to read 'End the Fed' when I have time. I have watched many videos including interviews with the media and coverage of him standing on the floor of the house defending and proposing the very things he said he would. He actually fights for what he believes in to the detriment of his own political image and standing...because it's the right thing to do. I wish all politicians had half the integrity of Ron Paul.

To my great dismay and disappointment, I watch as his words are misrepresented and purposely taken out of context...or outright lied about by the media and even by the people frequenting the vine in an attempt to discredit him. I believe this man is the best hope this country has for a better future and I encourage everyone to turn off CNN and FOX news and do their own research. Ignore the talking heads and use your own. If you still disagree, that's fine, that is your right and I support it. But please, learn for yourself.

Ron Paul lost me when he said I deserved to die if I get ill because I lost my health insurance when I got laid off. In Paul's world it is personal choice and he personally has his and f the rest of us.

Don't ask for any disaster relief as Paul wants to make us the Un-United States. He wants us all to secede from the union and every state is on its own. He especially wants to protect the 1% rich from taxes which is the basis for his smaller government.

Then Cain told us how the republicans really feel with telling us that it is our fault we don't have a job and not the economy's.

Yes republicans, continue to show us how you treasure the 1% over the rest of America just like Ron Paul does.

There's an old saying about republican voters: They don't fall in love with a candidate, they fall in line with a candidate. Romney is the guy who will be getting the nomination. Republicans will pick the guy who has the best chance of beating Obama, even if he isn't the most conservative candidate.

What? You are so full of poo Americans First. He never said that about you deserving to die.

He never said he wants each state to secede, heck the only half truth you have there is the taxation part but you ignored the fact that he wants taxes cut for EVERYONE.

If you are going to lie at least pick someone who has lied to us repeatedly like Cain, Romney, and Bachmann.

Ron Paul never said that those without health insurance deserve to die. The moderator of the last debate certainly tried to back him into that corner, but he honestly believes in a compassionate government controlled by a compassionate society.

He draws the distinction that programs that help those in need should NOT BE FEDERAL, but dictated by the wants and needs of each community on a LOCAL LEVEL. Every state is different and will make decisions for their citizen in a different way. People will have to be involved and help create the legislation that best serves their area.

This doesn't mean that states secede, but it absolutely does mean that we have to take responsibility for ourselves and those around us who need help.

Exactly Ang. These people that want to bash Paul continue without actually looking into his message. They just figure that he is running as a republican so he is evil. Well hate to break it to you but he is more liberal then most democrats.

Bob: You and Ang assume Paul is an unknown quantity. He is not. You'll have to find another excuse for why he is irrelevant to his party. It sure as heck is NOT because people are unaware of his stands.

AP where did I say he is an unknown quantity? I said that American's First out and out lied about the stances of Ron Paul. He is ignored or has his words twisted by all the major news networks, Fox included. In fact the only place where I have seen him on a major network not have his words twisted has been the Daily Show. It is sad when a show that at its core makes fun of politicians and politics in this country is the only place where this man gets any due respect. So instead of trying to twist my words around do some research for yourself instead of continuing the "we will do your thinking for you so you don't have to" mantra that the major news networks are doing.

Who has lied and twisted Paul's words?? As I said, it's very, very easy to find out where Ron Paul stands. He makes no secret about his views and never has. I saw that debate myself and I can certainly understand why many came away thinking paul would leave that hypothetical person without insurance to die....Not because he was the one who shouted "let him die" but because he didn't argue or rebut that when it was said...and when asked directly what he would do...LITERALLY shrugged his shoulders and shook his head before talking about "freedom" to choose (and you're going to complain about 'twisted words' because many heard that to mean he was talking about freedom to choose death?) You're going to whine about a COMEDY show being unfair to him?? Seriously, is he a presidential candidate or running for class president? This is a game for grownups.

AP here is what I said "He is ignored or has his words twisted by all the major news networks, Fox included. In fact the only place where I have seen him on a major network not have his words twisted has been the Daily Show."

Here is what you said "You're going to whine about a COMEDY show being unfair to him??"

If you are such a grown up act like one and quit trying to twist things into your favor. That is what our current batch of politicians do. You aren't the only one who watched that debate. You know back before our politicians got into the healthcare thing (way before Obamacare) there were these things called non profit hospitals. Regulations put them out of business. So now you have the CHOICE of dying or going bankrupt. Sure it sucks to go bankrupt but I think that would be much more preferred over dying. Or you could put someone in power that says you have the option to have the government to do its job and not whine about how that Shriner's hospital is taking patients away from those hard working for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

I would advise you to at least act like a grown up if you are going to claim this is a grown up game.

Well said Jody, I find it so sad that any member of Congress will put their re election chances ahead of helping their fellow Americans including their own constituents. Why do these self perpetuating politicians keep getting re elected or elected, none of them care, they are all about self preservation and the chance to become richer....... at our expense. It really is shame on us, for enabling them.

I know I am like a broken record on the filibuster (I guess that shows my age since we haven't had records for a long time!) but if the Senate is going to be hamstrung by the archaic filibuster rule, why don't the Democrats make the Republicans HAVE A FILIBUSTER? Let them stand up in the well of the Senate and explain why they are not voting for jobs for their countrymen.

GBM, thank you. True, shame on us for enabling them by giving them our votes. It is beyond comprehension that one party can turn its back on the country for the sole purpose of defeating one man who happens to be in the White House and do it while wrapping themselves in the American flag and calling themselves patriots. Really has me "fired up, ready to go".

Ben Nelson (D-Nebraska) thinks that throwing in with Republicans on the jobs bill will equate to his keeping his Senate seat next November. Ben is toast already and the other defector is trailing a Republican in his own home state. I'm not overly distressed that the bill failed for it was poorly crafted and relied on too much guess-work to be a confidence builder. But the politics that played out is truly humorous. In Nelson's case, not only will he not get the Republican vote but now its fairly clear that he will lose a significant portion of the Democratic vote. Enjoy civilian life, Ben. Its been a Hell of a run, hasn't it?

Steeler Fan. My sentiments exactly. I do not object to a filibuster debate on the Senate floor where the opposition must state its case verbally and convince everyone else they are right. I object to filibuster by vote or by phone call. If they want to filibuster, then hit the floor and stay there but exhaustion and the majority vote should shut it down. I object to indefinite holds on nominees and legislation by one senator. It is indeed tyranny of the minority.

Jim in Texas. Had they not filibustered, the legislation would have come to the floor for amendment and debate making it better. By voting NAY to proceed, it died. That's my biggest objection.

Quick how many of you have read the Jobs bill that was placed before the senate? Not one of you. It is jobs for more green energy not jobs for the common person it is taking funds we don't have and directing them towards companies like GE (who is shipping jobs to China including the manufacture of the new military jet engine) and the recent debacle with Solyndra. Are you saying we should spend another 4.5 million per job created? That is a good idea? Please people actually research these things. Even your precious Harry Reid said there were parts of the bill that were bad so we should pass the whole thing?

How did you feel when the Republicans threatened to use the "nuclear option?"

We are discussing a procedural rule, not Holy Writ. If you think a simple majority vote on matters of such obvious importance should be the new rule, then by all means get elected, gather enough clout to bring the measure forward, and then marshall the votes to get it passed. You obviously are long-winded enough to become a politician (although your obvious gifts would be wasted if the ability to filibuster was lost).

I think this is as valid assessment as any I have seen, Paul M.

Paul M. Ditto what Amy said.

I agree, there was a poll number last week that said 46% of likely GOP primary voters aren't happy with the field. Your assessment provides some of the reasons.

Very good analysis, Paul. I'm in total agreement with it. However, like Romney or not, you know Republicans will solidly support their party's nominee regardless of which name emerges victorious. Many are theorizing that Tea Party conservatives will not support Romney. They have four choices, actually ~ vote for the GOP nominee, vote for the Democratic nominee, don't vote at all, or form their own party. Option two is totally out of the question; option three is not even a consideration as they are too politically active to take a pass, and they don't have the money or base to successfully prosecute option four. So, its back to option one for the TP's ~ and they will unashamedly back Romney. Should they unwisely try option four, they re-elect Obama and for ultra-conservatives, that is a curse worse than the fires of Hell itself.

Paul it is so good to see you posting regularly again! Great Assessment!

What do you think of them starting to say they will hold their nose and vote for Romney? Do you think if Romney gets the nom (there was an assessment on MoJo this morning) that he can beat Obama? I just don't see it. Although, I would say he probably has the best chance of any of them. I personally can't stand Romney. He will truly SAY anything; but his sincerity gene is completely missing. Which no doubt is the TP problem. It is definitely a crap shoot at this point.

Paul -- Agreed on whether Cain is really ready or in my opinion serious about running. One tax proposal does not make a platform. And the answer on Fed choice will not sit well with some.

I have a problem with Cain holding 14 jobs in 20 years. These, according to him are VP's and CEO's. That's a big red flag that he couldn't last any length of time in any of them. I also have a problem with him saying the 9% sales tax will never go up because prices don't change. It's obvious the man has no clue about the cost of living.

Hi Clara. It's been a while, but the presidential cycle has pulled me out of the woodwork again, though I think I am less interested each time. Still, great spectator sport.

I think Jim is right in that most Tea Partiers would end up voting for Romney, should he get the nomination. But they won't give money and time, for the most part. The GOP will have a crippled candidate. But then the Dems do, too. Heck, given the economic environment, it's amazing we're even talking about the incumbent's chances.

And, no, I don't mean that as a criticism of either party for creating the mess (I think both did, in one of the few instances of bi-partisan cooperation). But in terms of pure political skills, actually I think Pres Obama has done a remarkable job of keeping his chances alive. Or maybe its that the GOP has done a poor job of framing things as the president's fault. When they try, the criticism is usually so over the top that everyone except those already in full agreement just tune it out as more partisan blathering.

Although, Clara, I'll add this. If Romney gets the nomination, it's only a matter of time before people start wondering on which book he would place his hand should he win the general election. That will lose him some votes.

It's one thing to think about a president who happens to be Mormon. It's not like he can mandate anything supporting that faith, etc. But when you think about a president-elect getting sworn in with his hand on anything other than a Bible, that re-opens those questions. And if you think of Romney going ahead and using a Bible, which his faith thinks is incomplete and flat-out wrong in some instances, then it re-opens the line of thought about that particular candidate of not believing anything and just saying/doing whatever is expedient. Seems like a small issue, but it could be a mess.

No doubt I see many opportunities to campaign against Romney. I am curious to see how this plays out. It is OBVIOUS the TP'ers are lukewarm at best. That will certainly be a factor.

I definitely think your above issue will PREVENT Romney from getting the nomination. Those motivated souls are going to vote as conservatively as possible and against Romney. Only the middle and any dems will pull Romney through.

I firmly believe that the irrational wing of the wingnut camp will determine the nominee.

With all that said,...I am still not worried about the General Election. Whomever gets the Repub Nom will determine how I move on my concern.

You have to wonder if the teabaggers will try for a third party candidate. I can't see them supporting someone who is not a "true believer."

NDD, that's my guess. ROmney gets the Republican nomination, and the Tea Party runs a third Party candidate, who may, or may not, take a few votes away from Obama as well.

I think so too Amy. Seems like the next step for those folks.

Good Morning Amy and NDD.........I'm inclined to agree, but who will it be? There are many nuts in the jar. Perhaps Ms. Michele B. or Ms Sarah P.? Will they be one of the crazies who dont know their history or much of anything else, or simply an ideologue for the fervent base? Should be interesting.

I think Bachmann will at least make an attempt.

Ron Paul has nothing to lose by running a 3rd party campaign. He is not running for re-election to the House, he's got loyal supporters and money to make noise.

Ron Paul has already declared that he will not run as a third party- does not want Obama given an edge.

The funny thing about all this wishful thinking that a conservative will throw a monkey wrench in the election? Politico is running a third party candidate "primary".

Hillary Clinton is running away with it.

Now, it's not a scientific poll, and I seriously doubt that she can be drafted- but, since the make up of that board is similar to this one, it's pretty informative that she has a double digit lead over every other "candidate".

No Joe, it's pure speculation and discussion here. I really don't care if the right mounts a 3rd party candidate or not.

As for Politico's 3rd party primary, no doubt people are having fun with it much like Fantasy Football but beyond that, it is meaningless. Hillary Clinton would have no more cooperation from the GOPers in Congress than does President Obama, democrats far left and center know that; she's still got a "D" after her name which means the GOP's goal would be the same: defeat her and make her a one-term president.

dottielou I couldn't have said it better!

GF - you sure tell it like it is...

*hugs*

Oh, the irony, Nashville! An earlier media narrative was that President Obama tried too hard to compromise with Republicans. He wined them. He dined them. He let them help craft the Healthcare Act, he snubbed his base for the sake of bi-partsanship, etc. Now the narrative is he didn't reach out to Republicans? Really REALLY?

Not only do we need a new House, we need new pundits.

Nashville_fan

This morning on Morning Joe-ke, I heard Tina Brown, editor of Newsweek, lament the fact that President Obama was too passive to get his jobs bill through Congress, a sentiment echoed by the wise and all knowing panel surrounding her.

According to the newstainment industry, if the Congress does not pass a bill, that is President Obama's fault, because he has not formed "personal relationships" with the Congress critters.

Nash that is why I get my lies for the 1st 15 minutes on FOX&FIENDS. Then I flip to C-span to hear the pulse of the nation. can't stand Morning Joke.

Great post

Maybe Tina Brown is a white "liberal electoral racist", Nash.

She appears to fit Professor Melissa Harris-Perry's profile.

Mixed Bag:

Me thinks you have a crush on Melissa Harris-Perry . . . she is a cutie! :o)

Nash---I wish you could be on one of those shows and give it to the pundits from both sides of the aisle---they seem to me to be advancing their own agendas and are out of touch with "regular people."

I'm crazy about her when she's getting after those nasty white "liberal electoral racists", Nash.

It's about time somebody did.

Watch out, Tina!

You said it, Nashville.

Tina Brown and the lemmings just bought the latest nonsense sold by some op ed writer; it was an opinion by a critic not a fact-based analysis. Were Tina and the lemmings absent for the 2 1/2 years that the GOP Senate obstructed and filibustered everything? Apparently they are so ignorant as to have missed McConnell's words "our goal is to defeat President Obama....to make him a one-term president" and to honestly believe that a party that makes those remarks could be "sweet talked" by President Obama. FDR, JFK, LBJ, Reagan etc could not convince these intransigent GOPers to play cards and chat because this is not the 1930's or 80's.

It seems to me Tina Brown and the lemmings like her are part of the problem; they repeat what they read and because it is written somewhere it must be true without ever doing some critical and independent thinking.

Jody---lemmings is a good word for them---the professional pundits who seem to make their livings going on talk shows. They must keep coming up with provocative things or they won't get air time.

Nashville the bill failed to make it through your Senate, never made it to the house. Jody you didn't mention when the Dems had a super majority, it really doesn't matter to people like you and your opposite side the Repubs. you're blinded by your partisan backing, we can do no wrong liberal/right wing BS you guys need to take a walk outside and breath the well fresh air.

my, my William..."no evidence"???? are you serious? Have you forgotten already that President Bush APPOINTED both Bernake and Paulson? Guess that's why it would understandably slip by you that Bush pushed TARP through Congress. You know as they say you are entitled to your own opinions...just not your own facts.

Read the book would you. He may have appointed the guys, but they did all the thinking and driving. He was nowhere on this.

That should be a good enough answer for the average Republican primary voter.

*ZING*

ROTFLMAO!

I'm unignoring you for a reason- you seem to have juice with the moderators.

Could you please do whatever you have to do to get the moron at 19 off the board? Even his name is offensive.

Could you please do whatever you have to do to get the moron at 19 off the board?

I'll see what I can do - if he's a re-reg it shouldn't be a problem...

no jo: you have as much "juice" as anyone else. Just send a copy of that post in an email to the moderators of Newsvine. The contact information is there.

But, your concern about this does you credit. Another area where we all have common ground. I still think that looking for areas of agreement will improve this board.

Sure am glad nobody ever calls Herman Cain an "oreo" or an "Uncle Tom". That would be offensive too and would no doubt cause the person that posted it to be deleted...right?

I'd flag that, too, Damage.

Come on- you cannot agree with that post- or the racist name of the poster.

No, I don't. Thought they were both stupid and, on a serious website I might even complain. But this site, regularly filled with anti-White comments, anti-Christian comments and anti-Black conservative comments, isn't to be taken seriously when it comes to those things due to the typical liberal double-standards employed.

Come on- you cannot agree with that post- or the racist name of the poster.

Thank you NJNB - on this we can agree!

My sympathies that 'damaged goods' is on your team... lol

Stands and applauds, Houston! cha-ching.

Feisty-- You're one of the worst offenders. If this was a real site and you didn't have some sort of special "relations" with the people that run it or were not a class-A brown noser, you would have been banned months ago. Please put me on ignore and go feed your 37 cats.

Nah, I think Damage is on a team of his own in his very own world!

Please put me on ignore and go feed your 37 cats

Not a chance - it's too much fun calling you out on your bullsh!t!

PS: My two cats are very well fed - thanks for your concern! ;o)

Damage - The color of envy is green as seen through your black key strokes!!!

Feisty-- I doubt you can call out ANYONE'S bs when your posts mainly consist of "LMAO", ROTFLMAO", "ZING", "me and you are on the same page", and "damn right GF!" I asked you before "how does it feel to know that the man you worship would never want to have a damn thing to do with you? You're exactly the type of leftwinger he constantly has to distance himself from to appear centrist.

He'll be gone next year anyway.

Laurie--I have no idea what you're talking about but maybe you need to stop watching so much late night TV.

Poor ol Damage, continues to prove my above post and equally lives up to his moniker. LOL What an ..........!!! Fill in the blank.

TJefferson. True. They aren't smart enough to realize that their blocking our President's attempts to help the economy and the people means more angry voters who will likely vote them out in 2012. The GOP was in a Catch 22, they either support the AJA and lose the radicals in their base or oppose the AJA and lose the 99% which includes a lot of republicans. Not too bright, those GOP folks in the Senate.

TJefferson - The more the Republicans obstruct and prevent jobs from being created, the more the middle class will wake up and take to the streets. Bad move Republicans but good to let the American people see you all for what you really are. The curtain is finally being pulled back on these liars and manipulators.

The problem with the left wing is they hear the President give a speech and just take his word that what Obama says will happen. After 3 years, how many of the projections on the economy Barack Obama has made about his programs have come anywhere near to be true? He says some supposed "independent" economist scored his jobs plan and it will create 2%-3% GDP growth. But Bloomberg TV had 34 of the nations top economists not working for the Democrats or Republicans score the Jobs Act. The consensus of the scoring was 0.6% growth. Since we have been averaging 0.7% growth for the last year, what are we going to get for borrowing and spending another $447 billion dollars?

When you do the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time, you are the true definition of a fool.

Brad Cantor, both your points are accurate descriptions.

Right now you could run a tuna fish against BHO and it would win -- and probably have better policies as well. Although those lions better look out...

Stop the presses, get us a news conference -- Redfray will not vote for Romney. Do you realize the worldwide repercussions of this, my god, I think the world may end.

stfu you idiot, who cares what you would or wouldn't do.

thank you, you must be among the 32% of registered American voters of Gallup says would vote to re-elect President Obama today. The problem is Gallup also said 54% wouldn't vote for him.

Right, we are all going to vote for bush's third term ala Romney with bush's old advisers including his economic advisers.

The independents will be running away as fast as they can from Romney and his retread of bush III headed our way.

I have heard now a tuna fish, a dog, a broomstick, the ever popular generic republican and a rock could beat President Obama. Now if only you could get one of them to run, you would be set.

Me either, Redfray! Maybe the poll dancers can explain this. In head to head national polls, President Obama leads most candidates or is tied or marginally ahead or behind Romney. Why is it Romney campaigning hard can only muster a tie or slight lead?

No "Ray W" these are the same folks that bailed on John McCain and they will do the same to Romney, because they can't stomach the choice they have to live with since Perry appears to be fading in the wind. Evangelicals do not want a mormon and that's just fact. Oddly enough, Bachmann is still alive because of their disdain for Romney. Perry blew it, this was his nomination to lose...

Mav is right.

Just like with JFK being discriminated against because he was Catholic in a Protestant dominated field, Romney is being rejected by evangelicals because most don't believe Mormonism is a form of Christianity (it is).

@Jody: Last I checked the USA Today's front page listed a poll showing that if people voted today, based on their sample, Romney would just defeat Obama by the skin of his teeth. That could change, that could not.

The Tea Party and ultra conservatives are the only thing holding back the Republican Party from absolutely nominating Romney, IMO. Romney appeals to moderates and independents, the most crucial areas of getting elected as most of the U.S. consists of moderates (bell curve).

Had McCain not entered the race in 2008, likely Romney would have taken his place.

According to the Rasmussun poll taken this week, it'd be Obama right now by 2 points over Romney.

The election is a long way off.

Honestly Paul is only for the 1%. That is about all you can count on. Just like all the rest of the repulicans.

True freedom means equality and accountability for everyone. The rich should not receive special tax breaks and privileges via our federal government. The poor should not receive handouts via our federal government.

By bailing out the banks we have socialized all of their losses, while their wealth remained private. They should have been allowed to fail, their wealth would have been liquidated and others would have had the opportunity to succeed.

Ron Paul draws no distinction between rich American and the rest of us. We should all be treated the same and have the same rights and have to suffer the same consequences under an impartial, unbiased federal government.

We should all be treated the same? So if some kids go hungry...tough luck for those kids for not choosing the correct "accountable" parents? If you can't afford college loans but can compete on sheer merit, you lose? If we dno't have enough doctors, engineers, scientists...we'll just import them from somewhere? As though we were all on our own separate planet? This kind of me first mentality is why libertarians will always be on the fringe of American society.

Yeah, and one of these days you will get smart enough to figure out how you too could post first.

AC - Spare the melodrama, president Obama is just the most reasonable and sane choice for 2012. The messiah rhetoric came from the republican side because they were jealous of his popularity in 2008. Again, we have to go with the lessor of two evils philosophy. All politicans are suspect until you take corporate money out of the political system.

Mav, C'Mon Man, you can not be serious. Obama himself has played up this messiah complex thru his own narcissism. Republicans use that term tongue-in-cheek because this egomaniac actually believes his holier than though crap. He represents the worst in demogoguery. Sorry to have to burst your bubble about your Messiah, LOL!

Resist...."Messiah"? I think you're projecting just a wee bit....

Paul's followers are called "extremelly committed"...I think you just like to think the guy you hate is an egomaniac who has fooled everyone who voted for him...guess it'd be just too mundane to suggest plenty of folks simply disagree with you...In fact if it's one thing your side has going for it...it's the messianic complex of the far right...the absolute worst in demogoguery.

Forget Romney? Why? The only difference between Cain and Romney is that Romney was more successful in the private sector. As for your implication that Romney is part of the "establishment" or, as the hippies used to say in the 60s, the "man," Romney was the governor of a state. Romney is no more a part of the Washington establishment than Herman "Mr. Fed" Cain.

I wonder what Cain would say if asked whether he had ever promoted someone for president when they had no experience in management. We have seen how well a community organizer/less-than-one term senator as done as the chief executive. Cain should not subject the American people to on-th-job training for the POTUS.

Amazing! In thirty-six monhs, the Tea Party went from angrily opposing a Wall Street bank bailout to getting ready to nominate the Gordon Gekko of Bain Capital Managment as the Republican candidate for President.

See what mass media can do.

Don't imagine the Tea Party had anything to do with Obama's election, if that is the President to whom you refer?

I would rather be proceeding slowly on the right path, than running in the wrong direction.

Obamaisasocialist, your correct, the current boy in chief has no EXPERIENCE and refuses to fire his staff, this country will barely be floating when he leaves it in way worse shape then when he got it....

I cant wait for November 6th 2012, when this guy is gone, and he go back to rubbing elbows with his cronies, P-Diddy and Beyonce....what a complete and utter failure...