A surprisingly busy campaign 2012 day

By msnbc.com's Tom Curry

Tuesday Oct. 11 seems like it just may end up as one to be remembered in the 2012 campaign annals. It was perhaps not a decisive day but one that included several events – both campaign and non-campaign related – to remind Americans of just how consequential the decisions they make in the GOP primaries and in next November’s election will be.

The revelation by the Justice Department of an Iranian plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States reminded Americans that the threatening world outside their borders will intrude, as Sept. 11 attacks did, and that the lack of jobs isn’t all there is to worry about. This campaign may not be solely a matter of Democratic operative James Carville’s 1992 mantra “the economy, stupid.”

Despite Republican criticism of President Obama for trying to close the Guantanamo Bay prison, he has established a substantive and aggressive anti-terrorism record – including vastly expanded use of drones to kill al Qaida suspects such as Anwar al-Awlaki, a Yemeni-American imam with ties both to the 9/11 hijackers and to would-be Christmas Eve 2009 bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, whose trial began in Detroit Tuesday.

In the scrimmaging for the GOP nomination, Tuesday began with New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie’s endorsement of Mitt Romney and two new polls showing Romney with leads in Iowa (a small one) and New Hampshire (a larger one).  And the polls in both states pointed toward tough re-election prospects for the president.

Shortly before the GOP contenders gathered at Dartmouth University in New Hampshire Tuesday night for another debate, there was another demonstration of Obama’s political weakness. He and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were unable to get all Democratic senators to vote with them on a jobs and tax bill – it was another reminder that Obama has lost ground in places such as Montana, Nebraska and Virginia, states he either won or where he had some support in 2008.

The biggest immediate impression from the GOP debate was that Texas Gov. Rick Perry was strikingly less visible and assertive than businessman Herman Cain, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich or former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

It was Santorum toward the end of the debate who made the most determined effort to grasp the opportunity of news coverage of Wall Street protestors, offering his critique of the 2008 bailouts: “I opposed the single biggest government intrusion into the private sector, the Wall Street bailout, the TARP program.”

Romney gamely stuck to his 20008 “on the one hand/on the other hand” defense of the TARP bailout as necessary to avoid a collapse of the entire financial system. “We were on the precipice and we could have had a complete melt-down of our entire financial system, wiping out all the savings of the American people,” Romney said – not a position that most Tea Party activists want to hear. 

Romney probably also benefited from the increasingly spirited internal warfare between Herman Cain and Ron Paul which consumed several minutes of the debate.  Still, he remains an establishment front-runner in an political atmosphere infused with populist sentiment.

It was just one day but you might want to put a check mark next to it, just in case. 

Discuss this post

Jump to discussion page: 1 2

Better get after Romney, First Readers.

After the debate tonight, and the Christie endorsement, you can no longer afford to waste time on Perry, Bachmann, or Palin.

Your hosts know this.

The racists will go after Herman Cain.

The religious bigots need to focus on Romney.

  • 7 votes
#1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:14 AM EDT

The Liberals will go after whomever wins the poll or is reported to be the front runner in the media.

Typical strategy.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:17 AM EDT

We certainly don't need any of you conservatives to tell us what to do. We have been down that road before and you failed. But thanks for thinking of us.

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 AM EDT

i have no idea anymore what is liberal or conservative.......to me now it's us or them....destroy citizens or destroy govcorp

  • 7 votes
#1.3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:39 AM EDT

The other approach is coming in Obama's re-election farce. He and his ilk will be low enough to fabricate a "war" situation with Iran, risk American lives and use that as a campaign pitch not to change horses in mid stream. I guarantee it. I predict it. Please note it here.

  • 5 votes
#1.4 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:53 AM EDT

ldo

The Liberals will go after whomever wins the poll or is reported to be the front runner in the media.

Typical strategy.

Wow. Must be a TP supporter using one of their high level debate tactics! The libs will go after the GOP front-runner? Imagine that! But good shot, though... hate being called "typical"! LOL

Not that the GOP/TP would lower themselves to ugly rancor and vitriol aimed at the Democrat front runner... no... the GOP/TP would never bow to such tactics... except with a 24/7, 4 year, all media "make him fail" strategy that helped take this country down.

Just because we are holding Obama responsible for NOT overcoming the blocking and negativity to get consumer confidence and this economy going again, doesn't mean we let the "party of destruction" off the hook. The two fought for 4 years and wiped out any hope for recovery any time soon. They both are to blame.

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:53 AM EDT

The Liberals will go after whomever wins the poll or is reported to be the front runner in the media.

Actually Ido the republicans will eat their own for breakfast, the liberals can just watch the cannabilism and be secure in 4 more for Obama.

  • 5 votes
#1.6 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:04 AM EDT

Still, he (Romney) remains an establishment front-runner in an political atmosphere infused with populist sentiment.

Since the establishment got us into this mess their support of Romney is a good reason to vote against him.

  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:57 AM EDT

Worth a look.

    #1.8 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:37 AM EDT

    if Cain wins, will bam bam WH staff remove all the 9's from the keyboards before they leave?

      #1.9 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:45 AM EDT

      mitch j

      if Cain wins, will bam bam WH staff remove all the 9's from the keyboards before they leave?

      Does not matter. Republicans don't like science anyway. What use would they have for computers?

        #1.10 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:22 AM EDT

        what a ridicouls stament where did you come up with that crap

          #1.11 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:52 PM EDT

          No more war campaigns. Ron Paul 2012

            #1.12 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:05 PM EDT

            Lets pick a leader who has fought in a war and would not tie the soilders arms with bad policy if another war came our way.. Ron Paul 2012

              #1.13 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:10 PM EDT

              I just checked and there is only one Presidential candidate who has offered up his life for an American war. Lets get someone who has an understanding of what its like to protect the country for real instead of from a banker or oil-mans point of view

                #1.14 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:22 PM EDT

                Having been a voter since Richard Nixon was in office, I have a fairly good sense of where we are going and where we have been in the past 40 years or so. I’m informed, educated, and I believe everyone should have a fair shake in this world.

                Here’s how I see it:

                In the 70’s there wasn’t this bitter hatred toward opposing political parties like we have today. Both parties were still able to work out differences. Republicans were, however, seen as war mongers even then. Although, blame for Vietnam going so wrong could be made against Democrats as well. After all, LBJ certainly didn’t help matters by increasing the conflict. Then came Nixon. Most younger people I knew were disillusioned politically by the death of Bobby Kennedy and really did not like Nixon. In retrospect, Nixon was corrupt, but he was not without some progressive accomplishments. For example, Nixon did begin the EPA in response to the growing problem of corporate pollution in the United States. It was everywhere. You couldn’t drive very far anyplace without being overcome by noxious fumes, either coming from a river, lake or billowing from factory or chemical company smokestacks. Driving across the Mississippi River bridge at Memphis was really bad. Your eyes would burn sometimes from noxious smog put out by the refinery and chemical companies that line the Mississippi river south of the bridge. Even Mad Magazine started parodying the terrible pollution problems we had. I remember one cartoon where a kid was dragging his little brother in the house by the arm saying “Mom, Tommy has been playing in that creek again.” The little brother was screaming and his lower body was completely dissolved. In the background of the opened back door was a chemical company with billowing smokestacks and a little creek flowing forth from the property toward the boy‘s home. I get so angry when I hear ignorant, greedy Republicans and Libertarians complain about the EPA and what a burden it is on corporations. Too damn bad! The free market did nothing to curb the pollution then and it wouldn’t now. That notion is a conservative pipe-dream. Corporations have proven that their greed knows no limits.

                Anyway, after Richard Nixon resigned (he would have definitely been impeached had he not) we got Gerald Ford to continue in his place. President Ford was a respected president by both Democrats and Republicans. Not so much the Republicans that followed.

                Sometime around when Ronald Reagan started running for office, I remember televangelist Jerry Falwell formed the “Moral Majority” in order to begin a lobbying effort in Washington. It didn’t take long for Republicans to suck them right up. Jerry Falwell was considered a charlatan and a fraud by most Democrats and some Republicans, but that didn’t stop the Republicans from co-opting the far right religious vote. Most of us knew they were just doing it for the votes, but the easily persuaded religious right were certain that they were on the side of God. It was during this time that the cracks began to form in our political discourse. I believe that Jimmy Carter could have been reelected had the Iran hostage situation had not been so bungled. MTV even got involved in politics around this time. Genesis video to the song “Land of Confusion” visually sums up the sentiment pretty well of what many of us thought about Ronald Reagan, especially Social Liberals. It had become really clear that Republicans were now legislating for the exclusive benefit of corporations and banks. Their hard line foreign policies seemed to be making us less safe as well. Hostilities in the world were really beginning to fester. Amazingly, Reagan policies are still being pursued by Republicans today, regardless of the negative impact they have on deficits and middle class America.

                After Ronald Reagan left us with a record federal deficit, in came President G.H.W. Bush and the Gulf War. Most people that I knew were behind Bush, even Democrats, and supported and stood by him as we fought the war. However, concerns were really starting to mount about our nation’s deficit, which was worsened by Reagan’s “trickle-down” supply-side economic policies. Voodoo economics, as President G.H.W. Bush labeled it at the time. Pretty much that was the reason people were losing confidence in Republican’s ability to get our fiscal house in order. By the time Bush was defeated and President Clinton was elected, people had really begun to sour on the passé “moral majority“ movement.

                Things really started booming in America after Clinton was elected. The federal budget was in line to be balanced with a surplus and President Clinton was quite popular and well liked. During his second term, however, Republicans, led by Newt Gingrich, decided to start playing extremely divisive politics and went after Bill Clinton for his philandering. This is when the country started really splitting apart by party line. I remember the angry shouting matches and unpleasant discourse between Democrats and Republicans and it has yet to improve. I hated Newt Gingrich then and I certainly do now. I was so happy when he was thrown out of Congress.

                Things didn’t improve at all when George W. Bush was appointed President by the Supreme Court. He started his administration with a sense of mistrust by Democrats because of how he was elected. Thus began 8 years of more trickle-down, supply side economic policies that eventually led us to the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, not to mention an ever expanding record federal deficit. The gap between the haves and have-nots is as big as it was during the days of the robber barons. In fact, that’s pretty much where we are now. All the Koch Brothers need is a pair of top hats and tails and we‘re back in 1897.

                It was easy getting rid of the Republicans. Especially after the financial meltdown caused by years of chipping away at banking regulations, two unpaid wars, a record deficit, and massive tax breaks for the extreme wealthy. It also helped that John McCain picked Sarah Palin to be his running mate. It didn’t take people long at all to realize that she was just an airhead with a weak education and a tendency to speak in worn out and debunked political catch phrases. I still see a McCain Palin sticker on a car bumper ever now and then. Some people have no shame.

                Anyway, President Obama came in and immediately began to take steps to try and repair the economy and get us out of the recession. At first he got some brief cooperation from Republicans. I think the only reason he did was because they thought the economy was going to fall into a depression and their own wealth might be in jeopardy. However, once it became apparent that we had avoided another depression, Republicans decided to pursue a course of obstruction in order to prevent the economy from improving too much. They know a greatly improved economy would likely insure another victory for President Obama. They also ramped up using Fox News as a political propaganda tool to hoodwink the gullible and uninformed. That has worked pretty well, but I think it’s time has come. Most people know what Fox News is now so it’s effectiveness as a propaganda tool has been greatly diminished.

                Anyway, what all this chatter and history lesson is about is I want to make it very clear that Republicans are, and have been for 30 years, the party of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation. Everybody else is merely exploitable labor. I do not blame President Obama for our economy being the way it is. Republicans have continually obstru

                • 1 vote
                #1.15 - Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:14 AM EDT

                Republicans have continually obstructed positive legislation and refused to do anything about the high unemployment. It’s obvious that they still believe that is a winning strategy for them. Their latest rejection of President Obama’s popular jobs bill is all the proof we need of that fact. Fortunately, especially with the Occupy Wall Street movement, I believe that working class Americans have had enough of Republicans and their nationwide attacks on labor, voting, and education. President Obama has done really well in spite of Republican obstruction. His list of accomplishment are amazing and very progressive. We’ve accomplished some historical achievements under his leadership. The world is a safer place due to his focus on national security. I will be supporting the President as he runs for re-election.

                OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

                • 1 vote
                #1.16 - Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:22 AM EDT
                Reply

                Just a ho-hum day with Mr. Obama remaining "cloaked".

                No articles reported on any of his controversial agenda items. Maybe tomorrow......

                • 6 votes
                Reply#2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:15 AM EDT

                If security matters to anyone I suggest checking this out. Ron Paul is the only prospective 2012 Presidential candidate to have served in the U.S. millitary.

                • 1 vote
                #2.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:30 PM EDT
                Reply

                When will MSNBC team tell Michelle Bachman that her steadfast refusal to support raising debt ceiling this Summer was based on a faulty understanding of the debt ceiling? She characterizes the raising of debt ceiling as giving Obama a "blank check" to spend more, while instead it was giving U.S. Treasury authorization to pay our debts - expenses previously authorized by Congress and now spent. Isn't anyone going to correct this misinformed lady? This is her way of saying no to more spending, but she went after the wrong issue!!!

                • 9 votes
                Reply#3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:20 AM EDT

                michelle is a complete idiot

                • 5 votes
                #3.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:36 AM EDT

                Uh, Tom, you forgot that yesterday was the day Michelle Bachman compared Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan to the mark of the best, "666". I don't know who I pity most, Michelle Bachman or the people of Minnesota who voted for her.

                Obama/Biden 2012

                • 1 vote
                #3.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:12 AM EDT
                Reply

                watched the bloomberg/washington post debate... while cain took a lot of heat on his 9-9-9 plan bachman nailed him on turning it upside down making it a 6-6-6 plan. True?? Maybe.

                Perhaps the most notable thing about the debate was that charlie rose kept it on track with issues affecting the economy.

                Actually, both cain and romney brought up the differences between at least offerring a plan for economic recovery whereas all obama offerred during his campaign and most of his presidency as a plan of "hope and change". Easy rhetoric for economic policy but nothing to move forward on.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#4 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:05 AM EDT

                while cain took a lot of heat on his 9-9-9 plan bachman nailed him on turning it upside down making it a 6-6-6 plan. True?? Maybe.

                Yes, so intelligent turning numbers upside down and making a biblical reference about evil.

                That's just who we need running this country.

                • 3 votes
                #4.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:07 AM EDT

                The 9-9-9 plan would be the biggest transfer of wealth from poor to rich in the history of the country. It would be a huge tax cut for the rich and a massive increase in taxes on the poor.

                • 2 votes
                #4.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:52 AM EDT

                @ldo"The Liberals will go after whomever wins the poll or is reported to be the front runner in the media.Typical strategy."
                What the HELL DO YOU Think FOX Propaganda NEWS DOES? They go after any Democrat Period. Just because they don't agree with there failed Trickle Down Theories. They haven't worked in 30 years what makes you think they will now.
                Any fool who thinks the rich is going to create millions of jobs is fooling themselves. The rich are richer than "any time" in the US of A history.. So were are the jobs? were are the jobs. CEO's pay has gone up 450% over the last 30 years. Average wages have decline. Were are the jobs. Unemployment is 9.1% were are the job creators? The current regulations in place to date are the same ones Bush had 8 years ago.

                  #4.3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:53 PM EDT

                  ask reid he is sitting on numerous house passed bills.

                    #4.4 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:14 PM EDT
                    Reply

                    If South Africa would have had to raise their debt-ceiling we would have been considered bankrupt. The Capitalist countries will have to come together and write off all debts otherwise we will see recessions and depressions every other year.

                      Reply#5 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:09 AM EDT

                      Tuesday an excuse for liberal democrats to try and bash the GOP, but appears most realize (democrats and republican) the bill in it's original form is no good. Using under funded Social Security and Medicare to help pay for an election year "jolt" or campaign just wouldn't do it for most normal folks. The sound bite that GOP didn't support the jobs bill is just election fodder and very transparent. BO policies haven't helped unemployment for the last 3 years and what we have to show for it is an huge unfunded Obama care plan with accounting gimmicks to get it past in a midnight closed meeting. Politicians need to stop piling on the debt with no real way to pay for these unfunded programs. Stop the fraud, waste and abuse of the taxpayer dollars.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#6 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:29 AM EDT

                      Gold Rush,

                      The bill is paid for with the 5.6% tax increase. So SS and Medicare wouldn't be touched. SS isn't underfunded it is solvent for the next 26 years, its after those 26 years that the amount the TRUST pays out will gradually decrease in real time dollar amounts, and this can be fixed with either means testing ot changing the stupid formula. I understand you don't like Obama's policies but to say they didn't help is like saying unemployment benefits don't help. Its all relative if you where a person that would have been fired then the policies directly affected your life and helped you, if you where a person who was laid off and got to deduct your unemployment so you didn't have to pay taxes on it then it helped you. I guess I don't understand how an American can see helping other Americans as so bad, but are willing to overlook the trillions of dollars we've abused and waisted overseas.

                      • 6 votes
                      #6.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:53 AM EDT

                      Just watched Roy Blunt (Republican) when asked if the republicans will pass anything for jobs before the end of the year and he said probably not. We will have to wait for 16 months to see who the next President is before we can vote on a jobs plan.

                      YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING..........................People without mnobs are hurting NOW not 1/13/2011. These republicans do not have a clue, haven't had a clue and obviously do not ever plan on having one because it might help Obama.

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:38 AM EDT
                      Reply

                      there are no candidates who are not owned, all of them owe someone other than we the people....do you really want a government like this...i don't

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#7 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:33 AM EDT

                      You got it with Obama too. So what do you do?

                        #7.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:55 AM EDT
                        Reply

                        I was recording the debate, and watched the first 20 minutes or so. I promptly deleted it, and decided to watch the baseball game instead and not waste anymore time on these Republican flakes. From the Godfather of Pizza to Drill Baby Drill Perry, they are all just obnoxious. There is no need to further listen to their agendas and plans. They all are just out touch with anything except a Grover Norquist mentality.

                        • 7 votes
                        Reply#8 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:23 AM EDT

                        Yes if only they would come up with a solution for all Americans like ...."Hope and Change" or it's all Bush's fault those are great ideas for the "WELFARE" of America.

                        Sometimes the best change is going back to what works, Hillary 2012 it just might happen. Mr. and Mrs. Obama have mentioned one term would be ok. It's kind of a loser mentality.

                        • 1 vote
                        #8.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:33 AM EDT
                        Reply

                        I cant wait to see what words of wisdom Feisty Navyboy (incognito) and rest of the happy band of buttered popcorn bandits. Boy......I can't wait to see the Pres./ V.P. combo they come up with. Any thing would be better that Mr (this is a bif F'in deal) Biden.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#9 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:24 AM EDT

                        jolly old soul good luck with that. They'll complain about the defeat of President Obama's union job creating plan, yet nothing for ordinary non-union people. President Obama needs to do something with his staff, Holder is going to an albatross for the President especially with docs saying he knew about fast and furious long before he admitted to it. If he doesn't resign or get fired, this op will almost certainly touch the white house and doom any reelection shot the President has. He also needs to get rid of Geithner to really show he is serious about turning the economy around.

                          #9.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:56 AM EDT
                          Reply

                          The conservatives are in uncharted waters, they have voted on God, guns and gays for so long that they are lost when trying to discuss and vote on real issues.

                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#10 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:10 AM EDT

                          I'm a lib, I believe in God, I own a gun, and I believe in Gays I don't get your party line point. This mantra has never worked for us. I believe in the Constitution, so if you believe in God or if you don't the Constitution protects you. If you want to own a gun or if you don't the Constitution protects you. If you are gay or not the Constitution protects you.

                          Hillary 2012

                          • 2 votes
                          #10.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:40 AM EDT
                          Reply

                          999 Was exposed as it really is a tax hike.Tea baggers can swing it anyway they want but bottom line,tax hike,I know the tea baggers would never agree to raising taxes as they are looking after the American people but 999,is a tax hike.

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#11 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:35 AM EDT

                          The 9 9 9 wont work but it's a start, at least if you tax consumption you are getting some money from the Hookers, drug dealers, anybody working for cash or any other tax cheat. Cain doesn't seem like a bad guy he just has too many ideas from the conservatives.

                          Hillary 2012

                            #11.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:45 AM EDT

                            Not a bad guy? The guy is a bigot... How anyone of color can turn around and say I won't have someone like "THAT" in my office is ridiculous and insanley bigoted. Secondly, 9-9-9 yea its a plan but its regressive as hell and would require HUGE reductions in government spending so we are essentially right back to where we are now what do you cut, how fast do you cut it. Thirdly, I can not vote for a man who rides the coat tails of other people here is a guy who sat in the back of the bus with his head down while corageous people around him fought for rights and liberties that he now enjoys, that he used to become as succesful as he is and what does he do he spits in their faces and calls them brainwashed. This guy is a business man and thats it, only dollars and cents make sense to him.

                            • 1 vote
                            #11.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:01 AM EDT

                            yeh, we know how well obamas hope and change plan worked to. All obama wants to do is campaign. Throw him under the bus and get someone else in who wants to truly govern. The dems need to find someone else.

                              #11.3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:21 PM EDT
                              Reply

                              idiot how is it a tax hike have you ever paid taxes for income 9% is smaller tax for even the people in the smallest tax bracket and his sales tax is also less than what we alreday have and his business tax is also smaller than the current smallest busniess tax

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#12 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:51 AM EDT

                              GOP: His sales tax is 9%. As of now there is no federal sales tax. You might be talking about State sales tax. But that tax won't go away. So no, we are not paying more sales tax right now except to the states.

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:05 AM EDT

                              That'sjust not true. there's the beer and wine taxes. There's the cigarette taxes . There'sthe gasoline tax.Allof those are federal taxes.

                                #12.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:18 AM EDT
                                Reply

                                Shocking. A government assisted drug cartel assassins from Mexico to commit a crime in the United States.

                                Oh, and Iran tried it too!

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#13 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:11 AM EDT

                                verno no I looked it up there is a federal sales tax maybe it's for doing business internationally

                                  Reply#14 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:31 AM EDT

                                  Any working person that supports a national sales tax is working against their own interests. The wealthy do not spend what they make, but you do. Most working people spend their most of what they make each pay period. So while fully 9% of your income is being taxed, the wealthy will be paying far less. And that doesn't even begin to consider what happens when you add state and local sales taxes, and suddenly you are paying 18% or more in sales tax. What kind of black market will spring to life then?

                                  And we haven't even discussed revenues or the lack thereof. Nor have we looked at what happens with Social Security and Medicare.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#15 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:32 AM EDT

                                  the wealthy do not spend what are you smoking they spend quite a lot they not being far less becaused guess what it is done in percentages and 9% of a private jet is a lot bigger than 9% of a pizza

                                    #15.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT

                                    I can barely understand what you saying. But because the wealthy save far more than working people, the amount of their income devoted to sales tax is lower. You want to look at actual dollars, but even then $1 to a millionaire is worth far less than $1 to someone make 20K. Especially when that $1 is the difference between eating a meal or going hungry. Quit protecting the wealthy.

                                      #15.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:09 PM EDT

                                      they spend plenty and pay plenty of sales tax where is your proof they don't

                                        #15.3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:15 PM EDT
                                        Reply

                                        verno I mean everyone knows that sales tax is usually reffering to state even if that is what cain is reffering to when he says sales tax then he would makes it so it's only 9% for all states for most states that would still be a cut but I don't think that's what he was refering to

                                          Reply#16 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:38 AM EDT

                                          Cain is planning on a 9% Federal Sales Tax. We would still be paying our State and City sales Taxes, plus the 9%. For most people, that would be approx. double what they are paying now.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #16.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:25 AM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          TheGOPLiesDeleted

                                          ok maybe that was what he was reffering to but it is still over all a smaller sales tax and I thought libs were for rasing taxes which is not what he is doing

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#18 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:44 AM EDT
                                          TheGOPLiesDeleted

                                          Now that was a zinger at the GOP/TBers.

                                          There answer will be: If President Obama cuts taxes we are against it period. Which means there pledge is full of sheit

                                            #18.2 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:34 PM EDT

                                            that is a bunch of bull we are for tax cuts all round pay attention and get off mnsbc

                                              #18.3 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:51 PM EDT
                                              Reply

                                              for my statment above I am talking to verno I don't how my comment got pushed down

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#19 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:50 AM EDT

                                              Here's a riddle for you: What's the difference between Mitt Romney and John Kerry?

                                              No, I can't tell either.

                                                Reply#20 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:00 AM EDT

                                                Except for the beginning of the debate when Romneywas forced to confront reality ofa finaicial meltdown of europe thedebate lacked substance. Romney never summed uphow his so called "radiacal restructing"worked orwhat the prctical benefits were. He didn't offer a time line ororderly progessionofhowit should be done. The 59 points sat on the sidelines andnever made itinto the game.

                                                HeranCain didn't domuch to advance hiscause except to repeat 9-9-9 like it was his verionofvodo economics. He was asked about Bloomberg's anaysis that his arithmentic didn't add up. He dismissed in outof hand. He wasn't pressed onwho his economic adviors were-and niether was Michelle Bachmann.

                                                A far as Bachmann ,shedid nice critque of Cain's plan, then ruin it bysayingit was "Almost a Value Added Tax", somethingshe already has a bill in congress on. Yet she didn't even bring up her proposal which is almost like Cain's Stage 2 of 9-9-9.

                                                No one-least all the moderators asked Cainwhat replaces the Payroll tax to fund social security.Would the federal sales tax be"lockboxed" to fund social Security? That is it could only be used to pay future benefits? Mitt romney missed a good opportunity there to defend social security again. And Perry could have jumped on that too. That means they aren't paying attention.

                                                Rom Paul did a fine job of going after Cain and Cain's role in the Federal Reserve but the stopped too soon and failed to underscore the impotance of what he was talking aboutinhow it relateds to jobs. He also missed a chance to talk about the Wallstreet Journal Oct 6 story about banks suing small busness mnoney to pay bak their own loans instead of lending the money to small business as it was supposed to do. We could have askedCainand others -where was the Feds when the money was clearly misused?

                                                He could also have said-where was Bachmann and Gringich. Where was Romeny? Where was the whole republicna partythat so worsipses small biz? why didn't they scearm bloody muder about this deliberate short changingof smallbusiness andchokingoff growth of the economy?

                                                This should have been a made to order moment for republicans and everyone blew it. Including Ron Paul.

                                                So we have to ask: what realitydo Republican bringto the Table? Rick perrycould explain his economic planexecpt to say "I want to turn energy loose" .Michelle Bachmannhas already said that. But Bachmannhas yetto tell us how she is going to bring back $2 gas or howto turn the economy around inunder 3 months.

                                                Mr Hunstman doesn't want a trade war with Chiina, but what does he want? He didn't say. None of them even mentioned the Trade agreements which Obam asubmitted toCongress-or even to urge Congress pass them . Wasn't it just a short 2 weeks ago they were on every candidate lips?

                                                Sic transit Golria

                                                Economic reality? Not int his bunch.

                                                  Reply#21 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:07 AM EDT

                                                  Notice something missing in the headlines????

                                                  Obama Bin lyin's Jobs Bill!

                                                  Prez Barry got Punked by....noooo not the Republicans....By Pinky Reid! Yup. good Ole Pinky changed his vote from Yea to Nay at the last minute to bring the jobs bill crashing into defeat. Poor Prez Barry. Bent over a desk by his own Party.

                                                  How's all that Hope and Change BS workin' now, Barry????

                                                  Where ya gonna get the munny to buy dem votes next fall???

                                                    Reply#22 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:32 AM EDT

                                                    liar you have not ideal how congress works i see.

                                                      #22.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:38 PM EDT
                                                      Reply

                                                      Remember those good ol' middle class days? We can kiss them good-bye, especially if mr. corporations-are-people-to becomes prez. Yep, we can kiss middle class America good-bye. Those kids protesting Wall Street? Kind of like Custer's Last Stand.

                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      Reply#23 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:32 AM EDT

                                                      It's fun to watch the GOP chew on each week's frontrunners. First it was Perry and Bachmann. Now, it's Romney and Herman Cain. Just goes to show that none of them can stand the scrutiny of even their own party.

                                                      Herman Cain's 9/9/9 plan is a joke. His chief economic advisor has been exposed and identified as an insurance/investment salesman for Wells Fargo, one of the biggest users of federal bailout money.

                                                      Romney's can't even explain his own 59 point plan. Probably because he's on every side of every issue. He stands for nothing and will sell out the Conservatives in the GOP at the first real opportunity. Everyone knows that, but nobody seems to know what to do about it.

                                                      Ron Paul marginalizes himself. He stands there and can't say anything positive or negative about anything. His crying about terrorist assassinations might make points in Tehran, or Pakistan, but Americans are happy that these scumbags plotting to take down airliners are being eliminated.

                                                      In the end, the GOP will screw themselves. By not approving the jobs plan they have demonstrated that they don't care enough about the rest of us to even support the values and ideas that they have asked for in the past. Instead of taking reduced employment taxes, and small business benefits, they set themselves up to be exposed as the phonies they are. The few Democrats that went along with them can be purged later also. The economy is improving on it's own, although at a slower rate. That fact alone will guarantee Obama's re-election. No wonder the GOP is concerned about the anti-Wall Street protesters. If everyone that would have benefitted from Obama's jobs bill votes in the next election, the Republicans will lose. A constituency of millionaires is not very big, just well financed.

                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      Reply#24 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:18 AM EDT

                                                      Capitalism works as evidenced by our success as a nation. What doesn't work is when the Federal government starts giving out tax credits, starts trying to "create" winner's and loser's and basically circumvents the covenants of a free enterprise system. The problem IS government, you can trace the housing mess back to them, the financial mess back to them and the recession back to them. There are 6 million corporations in this country and 97.83% of them employ 99 people or less, in fact, over 88% of them employ less than 20 people (according to the US Census). Liberals can continue to scream about "corporations" but the facts don't match the rhetoric. Most corporations are small businesses and very few of them are millionaires.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      Reply#25 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT

                                                      Agreed

                                                        #25.1 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:39 PM EDT
                                                        Reply

                                                        Us Americans MUST get this Obummer guy out of office or pay more dearly over the next four years. Try to imagine four more years of giving Americans enough to just get by! And vote the rest of his gang of thieves out of office. As long as he is in office COngress will NOT get any support of his continuing foolish programs. I'm sure that others will respond negatively. Be as that may, it is imperative that the positive responses to this message also step up to positively respond!

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#26 - Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
                                                        Jump to discussion page: 1 2
                                                        You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                                        As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.