Herman Cain told OWS protestors on Oct 5th, that Wall street bankers are "the ones who create the jobs" and "“if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself".
Consider the following 3 quotes:

Posted on Occupy dc website“Our focus is on the economy, corporate corruption of our political system, and the negative effects of corporate personhood".

Glen Beck said at the Voters Value Summit Saturday afternoon"The violent left is coming to our streets, all of our streets, to smash, to tear down, to kill to bankrupt, and destroy".

Rep Peter King (R-NY) said on Friday evening "“It’s really important for us not to give any legitimacy to these people in the streets...I remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen.”

Regarding Peter King's "shaping policy ": After being cleverly engineered by ALEC/ Koch/Exxon and Co. and trojan-ed into the House under their auspices, the Teapartiers have been shaping policy and bending Congress out of shape. And many will remember that anger, yelling, bullying, guns and 'putuporshutup' attitudes were rife at Town Hall meetings in summer of 2009.

By contrast, Occupy Wall Street is committed to peaceful demonstration & folks from all walks of life are present and involved.

Bright and alive in our memory is that GOPTP backed by the big corporations, ran on 'Jobs, Jobs, Jobs' last year. So no surprise the OWS perceives GOPTP to be job destroyers and not job creators. Even now after a decade of failed trickle-down that cost us 8 million jobs, the only solution/vision/agenda Republicans have for us is to give up the ghost and do it all over again. No wonder after all we've been through, the 99% is broadcasting NO, No thank you. Time for a brand new direction.

On the pretext of budget cuts, six hundred thousand government jobs have been destroyed by Republican Governors. And $Billions shifted to tax breaks for the wealthy.

So let's focus on putting all the above back to work and set to growing the economy again. How about it? If you please we'd like to feed our families and Go On. We cannot go back. Congress can start redeeming itself by passing the American Jobs Act on the double.

Quotes from:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/06/337522/herman-cain-occupy-wall-street/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/occupydc-gains-support-as-it-heads-into-second-week/?

utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story%29
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/gop-rep-we-cant-allow-more-coverage-of-occupy-wall-street/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/08/beck-the-violent-left-is-coming-to-kill-to-bankrupt-to-desroy/
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/cain-rails-against-wall-1195272.html

This Battle Has Just Begun:

One week ago I commented on that fledgling group now known as the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protesters. In the past week the OWS participants have had protests in New York, Portland, Washington D.C., Houston, Athens, Sacramento, San Francisco, New Orleans, St. Louis, Dallas, Louisville, Seattle, Chicago, Boston and Indianapolis. Forty-five states have now experienced an Occupy Wall Street protest.

Republicans are trying to denigrate the protesters by calling them slobs, freaks, liberals. Eric Cantor calls them "a mob". The reality is that name calling will not make this group go away and conservatives have no idea how to neutralize the movement.

What they fail to understand is that the people participating in the movement are every day Main Street Americans who have had their belly full of conservative practices and are exercising their right to peacefully protest the notion of giving tax breaks to privileged individuals and financial corporations. Conservative ideology has taken wealth from the middle class and now Cantor, Boehner, Paul Ryan and Cain want to silence the voice of 99% of the American people.

The last two powerful protests that I can remember were the Viet Nam protests and the civil rights marches. Reflecting back, we should not have engaged in the Viet Nam war and the civil rights leaders had valid grievances. In short, the protestors won!

Because the Occupy Wall Street protesters are a direct threat to conservative ideology, I see the wealthy digging in their heels and attempting to demean Main Street Americans. I am certain that conservatives will lose this battle for two reasons: it is impossible to insult 99 % of Americans and win their case and more importantly, they have no answers to the OWS grievances. They are reduced to inane name-calling.

Obama in 2012.

Anna Molly

Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe ... did you put this out here just for me? Seriously. THANK YOU.

_______________________________________________________

AM: The last time I heard that from a woman, I had scratch marks on my back that took a couple of weeks to heal. :~)

As far as Clarence Thomas and ClunkerCare’s individual mandate goes, his wife’s opposition to the whole bill is irrelevant. The thought that Congress has the constitutional authority to force an individual to purchase a commercial product or face punishment from the federal govt for not doing so is laughable on the face of it, regardless of what his wife thinks. Even the long time CEO of the largest teaching, not-for-profit hospital system in my area, who supports universal health insurance, said so in an op-ed piece in last Sunday’s local paper concluding:

Imagine where the court's holding that an individual cannot decide to do nothing might lead. If citizens decide not to buy automobiles in any given year, can Congress legislate they must? The auto industry's impact on the economy and interstate commerce is indisputable.

What if citizens decide not to spend any of their discretionary income at local malls, or decide not to spend any of it at all? Can Congress legislate they must spend a percentage of it every year?

Examples proliferate, leading to some extraordinarily unpleasant intrusions into personal liberties -- liberties that the people were careful not to give away when the Constitution was written.

Said succinctly, deciding to "do nothing" simply is not the equivalent of "doing something." And, the Supreme Court precedent is clear: If Congress wants to legislate in the area of interstate commerce, someone must "do something." There must be some activity to regulate.

As dangerous as it is to predict what the court might do on this issue, (and, frankly, as much as I might like a different result), the court should rule the individual mandate is unconstitutional. Without the mandate, without being able to assure all citizens will have health insurance at all times, Congress will have to re-address the remaining provisions of this far-reaching law.

I think we can all predict how anxious Congress will be to do that.

BTW, did you see where Chuck Schumer is pushing for a corporate profit repatriation tax holiday?? The Occupy Wall Street hippies aren’t going to like him doing his Wall Street masters bidding.

BTW2, How ‘bout them Packers!!

So you people have been reduced to:

"My Grass Roots is better than Your Grass Roots"?

Petty and pathetic.

Fellow right-wingers - There is a wolf that has infiltrated our pure-of-heart flock. Disregard this valuable information at your peril. He flaunts his name and preys on our ignorance - Cain!!!!! The man who murdered his brother. Ever hear of the Cain Mutiny? Raising Cain? That's right - the Anti-Christ. Evil, evil, evil!!!!!! This is so important, I have to use lots of exclamation points!!!!!!

For Pete's sake, look up this guy's bio. He was born in Georgia. For heaven's sake, doesn't anyone know that's a country in the once-upon-a-time U.S.S.R. - THE SOVIET UNION!?!?!?!? Where is your birth certificate, Comrade Cain?!?!?!?

When he came to America, he took over a chain of pizza parlors and closed half of them, throwing millions upon millions of productive American workers out of high-paying jobs.

He was Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, a branch of the most evil banking cartel in the history of the world. Ask Ron Paul if you don't believe me. I feel awful saying this, but he is probably a member of the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, and is pushing for the New World Order.

He says he's a "National Baptist". Oh really? When you translate that into a foreign language, you'll discover it's an anagram for Reformed Hindu Separatist.

The 9-9-9 plan? How can you be so naive? If you'd pull your heads out, so you could see the world right-side-up, you'd see that it's really 6-6-6. That's right, the sign of something really bad.

Could it possibly be any worse!?!?!?!? You betcha!!!!! Never forget what would have been the immortal words of the great American Republican Senator Joe McCarthy, if he had said them, "OMG he's an effing Negro!"

Is all of this true? Of course it is!!!! You saw it on the Internet, didn't you?!?!?!

News like this is sure to add fuel to the anger?

From the Huffington Post;

While most Americans aren't expecting their incomes to rise with the cost of living in the near future, more than 60 percent of Wall Street professionals say they anticipate their bonuses will be higher or the same as the bonus they earned in 2010, according to a recent survey.

Sixty-two percent of Wall Street workers said they're expecting a bonus that's in line with last year's or higher, according to a survey from eFinancialCareers.com

*** How many Senate votes will Obama’s jobs bill get?

Obama works his magic again, and again, just like with his budget, his own parties Senators will abandon him.

Harvey Golub, former chairman of American Express, called the “jobs” bill an incoherent mess. Writing in The Wall Street Journal, he said that among other flaws, the bill includes an unheard of retroactive tax hike on the holders of municipal bonds.

“Many of us have suspected that economic illiterates were setting the economic policy of this administration,” Golub wrote, adding that the bill “reveals a depth of cluelessness that boggles the mind.”

Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/aimless_obama_walks_alone_OUgoMTkORRJioLl7B6ZYmN/1

GOP J-O-B-S Plan Is A Scheme to Continued Corporactacy

We don't have a deficit problem; we have a J-O-B-S problem created by the kleptomanical Corporactacy

Outsize Severance Continues for Executives, Even After Failed Tenures

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/business/outsize-severance-continues-for-executives-even-after-failed-tenures.html?_r=1&ref=executivepay

I will watch the circus i.e. GOP DEBATE. Perry, Hurricane is coming at you; watch out!!!

PASS THE BILL!!!

Obama/Biden 2012

Don't give up the fight

I talked to my Tea Party brother last night. He loathes Mitt Romney. He's supporting Cain and/or Ron Paul.

In 2007 I supported Obama, but I was prepared to support Hillary or Edwards, if they won the primary. In the Republican primary this year, however, Romney is so far apart, ideologically, from Cain, Perry or Ron Paul, it's difficult to see Tea Party supporters rallying for Romney in 2012. Looks like Romney will win the primary (according to the media) but how wil he win the general without fired up foot soldiers?

Mr Speaker, Mr Cantor, Mr McConnell, Newly elected freshmen Congressmen:

“Where are the JOBS”?

Obama: "Pass this bill!"
Rain Man: " Uh oh, fifteen minutes to Judge Wapner."
Obama: "Pass this bill!"
Rain Man: "Course it's 10 minutes to Wapner."
Obama: "Pass this bill!"
Rain Man: "Course, three minutes to Wapner."
Obama: "Pass this bill!!"
Rain Man: "One minute to Wapner."

Two peas in a pod these two.

Rain Man and Obama: "It's definitely very small in here. Definitely."

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

What a beautifully succinct way to start off the day. I applaud you for brutal honesty.

Oookay... what kind of smirk will the weasel, majority, RepubliCON, Majority Leader, Eric Cantor have on face when he expresses his concern about the Occupy Wall Street protests as "growing mobs?"

Or how 'bout FAUX NEW's Liz Trotta Comparing Occupy Wall Street Demands to the "Unabomber Manifesto"?

These are the same people who spit on a Congress man, brought guns to rallys, and down a woman to the grown.

They are vicious and dangerously scared animals with backs against the wall.

Albany Joe:

AM: The last time I heard that from a woman, I had scratch marks on my back that took a couple of weeks to heal. :~)

I should be so lucky. ;-)

BTW, did you see where Chuck Schumer is pushing for a corporate profit repatriation tax holiday?? The Occupy Wall Street hippies aren’t going to like him doing his Wall Street masters bidding.

Don't rub it in. Or ... wait. ;-)

BTW2, How ‘bout them Packers!!

No kidding. They're so good they can win with one hand tied behind their backs.

Come to think of it, that may be a really good way to win. ;-)

LoL ... Good morning and thanks for the pick-me-up, Joe.

I needed that more than you know.

p.s. On a serious note, as the situation stands now, it doesn't really matter if Thomas recuses or not. That would leave a 4-4 tie, and the lower court ruling overturning the mandate would stand. I'd spar with you about this a little more, but you do have a point that it can be a dangerous business to try to predict what the Court will do. At least, it used to be.

Rain Man and Obama: "It's definitely very small in here. Definitely."

Real funny Smiffy - I see your bag of sleaze remains chuck full!

Denegrating the handicapped - you're a real class act ass... honey!

It these "Occupiers" are the "99%'s" as they claim to be,

Shouldn't their be a whole lot more of them?

I forgot to say, my Tea Party brother asked me if I'd demonstrated with the Occupy Wall Street in Portland (it was really funny, I watched protesters entertaining the cruise ship passengers on Commercial Street yesterday. We love our tourists!)

My brother, the Tea Party guy, SUPPORTS the Occupy Wall Street movement. We had a brief moment of family unity dissing Wall Street for holding jobs hostage to keeping their tax rates low. It was nice. Also, we both like Ron Paul.

Great posts Ron, Feisty, David, thanks.

Feisty pointed out the irony when Cantor said, "And believe it or not, some in this town have actually condoned the pitting of Americans against Americans".

Now you know that GOP has been pitting Americans against Americans for years. Everything they do is designed to grow profits for the wealthy on the backs of working people.

And GOP is busy undermining the rights of people at every level, voting, limiting people's ability to sue, environmental regulations, you name it.

Proof of right wing violent tendencies...

first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they infiltrate your group to discredit it with uncalled-for violence...
american spectator editor admits to being agent provacateur in dc museum riot @ #occupydc:
immediately after the incident began hitting the newswires howley published a “breaking news” story with the american spectator online in which he reveals that he had consciously infiltrated the group on friday with the intent to discredit the movement. he states that “as far as anyone knew i was part of this cause — a cause that i had infiltrated the day before in order to mock and undermine in the pages of the american spectator — and i wasn’t giving up before i had my story.”

according to howley’s story he joined the group in its march toward the air and space museum but the protesters on the march were unwilling to be confrontational. he states “they lack the nerve to confront authority. from estimates within the protest, only ten people were pepper-sprayed, and as far as i could tell i was the only one who got inside.”

he claims that upon arrival at the museum the group of approximately one hundred protesters split into two factions with the smaller of the two “rushing the doors,” the majority “staying behind.” howley then admits in his piece that he snuck past the guard at the first entrance in order to “infiltrate” the building and then confronted another guard. he then “sprinted toward the door” at which time he was first hit with pepper-spray.

as he describes his next actions “i forced myself into the doors and sprinted blindly across the floor of the air and space museum, drawing the attention of hundreds of stunned khaki-clad tourists (some of whom began snapping off disposable-camera portraits of me).”

fully inside, despite the orders of the security guards that the museum was closed to the public, howley made his way upstairs – to the location where a banner was unfurled protesting the museum’s exhibit of unmanned drone weapons.

“i strained to glance behind me at the dozens of protesters i was sure were backing me up, and then i got hit again, this time with a cold realization: i was the only one who had made it through the doors. as two guards pointed at me and started running, i dodged a circle of gawking old housewives and bolted upstairs.”

occupy street attendees are non-violent and (b) the right will do anything to discredit the truth.

http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2011/10/first-they-ignore-you-then-they-laugh.html

=============================================================

I was at take back Chicago/ OWS yesterday and saw no mobs!!!

WCA:

It these "Occupiers" are the "99%'s" as they claim to be,

Shouldn't their be a whole lot more of them?

They had enough "Occupiers" in Chicago last night to fill a small high school football stadium. Maybe.

Backhouse wrote "And GOP is busy undermining the rights of people at every level, voting, limiting people's ability to sue, environmental regulations, you name it."

I guess the left does not consider forcing Citizens to purchase a product against thier will and having the President of the USA sign off on having a citizen murdered, without due process, which is violating federal law, and violating the bill of rights of the individual, undermining individual rights?

Obama in one of his budget meetings with his economic advisers:

Sec Geithner: Mr. President, do you know how much a candy bar costs?
Obama: 'Bout a hundred dollars.
Sec Geithner: Do you know how much one of those new electric cars costs?
Obama: 'Bout a hundred dollars.

That explains a lot.

Joe,

Classic overshare,...since "talon" fingernails went out in the 80's,...you reveal too much! No man should be 'pent up' since the 80's,...it clearly spills over (so to speak) in their 'thinking'. I think you've certainly explained yourself with that comment.

I kid,...but REALLY? My eyes, my EYES!

So frankusa, you're telling us it's OK for Conservatives to undermine rights to vote, sue, for them to destroy environmental regulations and a lot more because a terrorist abroad was killed in exactly the same way the previous "unitary executive" did, over and over again?

Your hypocrisy is showing.

Ron Indiana

This Battle Has Just Begun:

Because the Occupy Wall Street protesters are a direct threat to conservative ideology, I see the wealthy digging in their heels and attempting to demean Main Street Americans. I am certain that conservatives will lose this battle for two reasons: it is impossible to insult 99 % of Americans and win their case and more importantly, they have no answers to the OWS grievances. They are reduced to inane name calling

Ron Indiana

It is the beginning of the end for the kleptomanical Wall Street Bandits. This is why they are using very frightful terminology. for example FOX and nut job glenn Beck..

Beck: "The Violent Left Is Coming To Our Streets" "To Smash, To Tear Down, To Kill, To Bankrupt, To Destroy"
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201110080002

What a beautifully succinct way to start off the day. I applaud you for brutal honesty.

Thanks GF!

No sense in sugar coating it! ;o)

The protest downtown last night was awesome!

Now you know that GOP has been pitting Americans against Americans for years.

Thanks for pointing that out Backhouse - they no likey that the curtain has been pulled back for all to see! lol

frankusa:

I know what you mean. The left all the time makes me buy products I don't want all the time. They make me buy tanks, missiles, and bombs. They make me contribute to house-of-worship building funds. (They hide it with income tax deductions.) They make me pay for airports I don't use. They make me buy submarines I don't want.

It just goes on and on. Next thing you know, the Vice-President is going to start defending torture.

frankusa wants us to be on our own, and for the US to be on its own.

Do we have no responsiblity for our fellow Americans?

America needs health insurance. OWS is out there demonstrating right now because we're tired of paying for corporate bonuses, jets, vacations in the name of 'freedom'.

"Democratic leaders in the Senate are scrambling to avoid defections on President Obama's jobs package, which appears headed for defeat on Tuesday."

-Eric Watson, The Hill, 10/10/11-

Feisty, Backhouse, Ron--way to go! David Walker, that was funny!

Rachel Maddow made a great point last night when she discussed the beltway media mostly ignoring the GOPTP ties to radical evangelicals, their pandering to that segment of the party--often giving them a pass when they make outrageous statements at events like the Values Voters Summit. She used as one example, Mitt Romney's telling Mike Huckabee he would "absolutely" support a constitutional amendment to define life as the moment of conception. Why hasn't the press asked Romney if he realizes that such an amendment would outlaw birth control pills? That might be okay with the far right of the GOP but it would not be okay with a huge majority of republicans, democrats, independents of all faiths and no faith. Does the beltway media not think people who didn't watch FOX News that night should know what Romney was advocating. The beltway media doesn't report much about the GOPTP "NO" votes on jobs bills, the obstruction of the GOP Senator filibusters and how that has impacted the ability of President Obama and Congress to actually do the work of the people. Those are just two examples. Rachel is right in her criticism that too often the beltway media excuses the obvious and as a result fails to focus on what the people really need to know.

Amy B. Portland, ME

My brother, the Tea Party guy, SUPPORTS the Occupy Wall Street movement. We had a brief moment of family unity dissing Wall Street for holding jobs hostage to keeping their tax rates low. It was nice. Also, we both like Ron Paul.

Amy That is wonderful. I had the same experience yesterday at the OWS/Take Back Chicago rally . I talked to a least 50 people one beiong a tea Party member. She said she originally joined due to Wall Street greed. Now she has seen the right go over the cliff.

I was so happy for her insight.

SF: Here in the Steel City we are solidly behind you (and our Steelers, of course) and support the American Jobs Act.

That may not be true SF. Think Senator Casey (D-PA) will vote for the AJA today? Yeah, I kind of doubt it too.

"They had enough "Occupiers" in Chicago last night to fill a small high school football stadium. Maybe."

So, maybe Cantor is worried about nothing? Well, rest easy there, Smiff.

JoAnnaSmith1

*** How many Senate votes will Obama’s jobs bill get?

No matter how many the President gets you people are done as evidenced by the calling of the people

Nancy Wilson Lyrics

" Face It Girl, It's Over "

Does he have to draw you pictures
Does he have to spell it out
Face it girl, it's over
Wo-oyeah, it's over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0EYUxtM0o

This is for Albany Joe and others who may believe that the currently proposed repatriation of foreign profits at a vastly reduced corporate tax rate is a good idea.

In the middle of this article from CNN/Money that describes how Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan will hurt the lower classes and help the wealthy -- a fact that cannot possibly have escaped the self-proclaimed math wizard Cain -- there is a very insightful video of an interview with Warren Buffett, in which he explains how repatriation actually will, in addition to probably not be used to create jobs, encourage companies to build even more facilities overseas, where they pay low tax rates to begin with, if they know they can repatriate the money later at an even lower rate.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/Herman_Cain_999_tax/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Just keep in mind, my conservative friends, that you all loved Warren Buffett until he started popping your ideological balloons.

The reason why Cain's plan hurts the poor is, of course, the fact that a sales tax is by its very nature a regressive tax, as explained here:

But what is far more clear, according to the experts, is that the wealthy would end up paying less than under the current system, and the poor would end paying more.

About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits, according to Roberton Williams, senior fellow for the Tax Policy Center. Credits they get for things like having children and the earned income tax credit offset the money they own in payroll taxes. And since they'd be paying a 9% sales tax under Cain's proposal, their dollars won't go as far.

"For the bottom end it's certain to be a tax rise of substantial proportion," he said.

The effective tax rate for the top 1% of wage earners is about 18%, Williams said, so a flat rate of 9% would mean a substantial reduction for most, even with the addition of a 9% sales tax on purchases. The wealthy are far less likely than low- or middle-income wage earners to be spending all of their earnings on purchases that would be subject to the sales tax.

"Every change in the tax system shifts who pays how much. If you're trying to be revenue neutral, there's always going to be winners and losers," said Williams.

Winners and losers? How very smug of Mr. Williams.

To the rich, this may very well be a game they can afford to play. But to the poor, it isn't a game. This is life and death.

drive-by-observer

"They had enough "Occupiers" in Chicago last night to fill a small high school football stadium. Maybe."

So, maybe Cantor is worried about nothing? Well, rest easy there, Smiff

Yes he is because he can't keep his promises to the ones occupying our wallets.

It's over for Lady Sniff and her occupiers. She is just in denial.

So let her post all her nonsense. Just like the signs the occupiers exhibited yesterday as they drunk wine, she will be laughed at the same way we laughed, danced, and gave the occupiers the warning signs their time is up.

AM: Just keep in mind, my conservative friends, that you all loved Warren Buffett until he started popping your ideological balloons.

Looks like Sir Warren Buffett is backing away from his "Tax the Rich!!!" and "Buffett Rule" mantra. It appears Sir Warren and Barack have a difference of opinion of what "rich" means. Whereas Sir Warren was talking taxing the super-duper rich, Obama was talking about taxing the super middle-class. Its probable Sir Warren's investors, those middle class folks that will end up paying for Obama's tax, were on the phone with him telling him to back off the goofy tax the rich talk. And Sir Warren has made his first good choice with regards to the "Buffett Rule".

This is for Albany Joe and others who may believe that the currently proposed repatriation of foreign profits at a vastly reduced corporate tax rate is a good idea.

_________________________________________________

AM: As I've said before, the US is only one of two (South Korea is the other one) major industrialized countries that taxes corporate profits earned by foreign subsidiaries of US companies. Those wonderful socialist countries all the lefty liberals so admire DO NOT tax the profits of foreign subsidiaries of corporations based in their countries. I'm not for the temporary tax reduction Schumer is proposing. I'm for total elimination of this tax just like it is in France, Germany, England, Canada and all those other socialist countries lefty liberals think the US should be emulating. I would think you would support the US being more like them.

Feisty, Ron, Bev, Backhouse.........great posts and great points. I firmly believe that OWS truly represent the 99% and we are seeing a movement take shape that will provide a roadmap for this country to follow for many years to come. This is why the right is chosing to denigrate them, they are scared, scared of the changes in the offing. The power of the people is an awesome sight, especially when that power includes all political stripes.

The politicians everywhere, but especially in DC would do well to pay attention as a day of reckoning is coming if there is little or no attempt to help the average family. Wages are low or stagnent, food prices are through the roof, just heard that the lowly staple, peanut butter will increase as much as 40% next month.

How come we can give subsidies to oil companies, yet we are proposing cutting heating oil subsidies for the needy? That alone would encompass a large portion of our population in wintertime, are we heading towards Dickens time?

We the People have a voice and we plan to use it. Help these folks be our voice, if you cant attend a rally, go to Occupywallst.com to find out how you can help. There are many ways to help besides your presence. Lend you voice on FB and Twitter. Up to yesterday, there have been 146 rallies across the country.....and the world is watching.

AM and Joe -- Here are my thoughts on repatriation. Right or wrong it has more to do with past actions and current proposals by some on the right and others on the left.

In 2004 or 05 Bush allowed a 5% tax holiday for the multis to bring the money back to the US. Today a large majority of the politicians on the right are calling for 0% tax holiday. Both were/are wrong. These multi's stand on America's great shoulders while they do business around the world. However, at a time of extreme loss of revenue and lack of funds or the ability of Congress to agree on ways to fund anything to pay for things such as infrastructure improvements I feel leaders would have a lot of leverage over the multis to negotiate a fair rate of taxation on this income which could be earmarked for specific use. Such as a much larger and effective infrastructure improvement policy that puts the money to good use.

Joe remember they did the business under current laws. Negotiate that later under total Tax Reform.

I know my bonus will be at least what I got last year and probably higher. Its what I get for long hours and great solutions. Which add to my companies higher profits. Although I received about a 12k bonus uncle sam only let me keep about 1/2 of that. Still it helped pay taxes on my homes.

In the mean time, while OWS continues the fight against corporate greed, the WI effort to recall Gov Walker is proceeding. Walker, however, is fighting back by trying to seize control of the board that oversees elections so he can change the rules regarding recalls, giving him the power to veto his own recall! Do not allow this to happen. People of WI--wake up and watch what is happening--another effort by the TPGOP to errode the rights and will of the citizens! Another instance of "let them eat cake!" that worked so well for the French aristocracy. If this kind of thing continues, the fallout might make the OWS look like a picnic! When it comes to the point of "nothing left to lose".....best to learn from history!

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

Why shoot - bonuses around here will be bigger than last year. So What?

Since the old gal doesn't work, why is she talking about bonuses?

So Drive By - care to make a bold prediction re: the Jobs bill vote? How many dem senators will vote for it? I think they will get about 45 dems.

And you?

And brother how about them WAPO articles indicating that Obama is clinacally depressed?

That's not good, but it is the end result of the Peter Principle. And man, what a perfect example of that.

@ Joe --

Don't_carry_it_all is right about the actual effects of reduced tax repatriation of foreign profits. As Buffett points out in the video, corporations do not use the money to create jobs, expand infrastructure, or even engage in research and development. Rather, they use it to buy back stock, to pay dividends, and to acquire other companies, which of course, results in a net reduction of jobs.

The classic example from 2004-05 was Hewlett Packard, which repatriated $145 billion in foreign profits and then engaged in an acquisition that produced a net loss of 14,500 jobs.

If HP's decisions have all worked out so well, then what exactly is it that Meg Whitman has been brought in to fix? It's obviously NOT their policy on hiring immigrants.

And if this is how corporations intend to use their profits, fine, but at least let's take a little off the top first, to repay for what they are taking away from the rest of us.

Tell you what, though, if we're going to start talking about what they do in Europe, then let's do ALL of it. Let's start with universal health care, and THEN we can talk about taxing foreign subsidiaries.

Deal?

.................

On the topic of "mobs" ... here is the definition I like best:

a. An organized gang of criminals; a crime syndicate.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mob

Sort of sums up Congress, doesn't it?

Gingerbread, Agree with you totally.

The corporations & the wealthy want special economic freedoms but they don't want to pay for those freedoms.

Let's finally get rid of loopholes and get-arounds and do it right. For the very wealthy to pay the same effective tax rate as the rest of us, we are talking pocket change for them.

Reagan said it was 'crazy' for a busdriver to pay 10% of his wages, while rich folk pay less.

Whether that 'less' has been cleverly whittled down to zero or is less by any measure ~ it is not fair, it ain't right and the 99% is over putting up with it.

Oh no - libbies talkin' about tax rates again.

Gosh Navy - I would love to pay what you pay. Now take that amount, multiply it by a factor of 10 and you likely get what I pay each quarter.

Yeah, I totally get off cheap.

But think about the job creation I employ - tax attorney and an accountant, just to do my taxes. You either rock Turbo Tax, or pencil in a 1040A.

Am I right? [of course, I'm always Right.]

The classic example from 2004-05 was Hewlett Packard, which repatriated $145 billion in foreign profits and then engaged in an acquisition that produced a net loss of 14,500 jobs.

If HP's decisions have all worked out so well, then what exactly is it that Meg Whitman has been brought in to fix?

____________________________________________________________

AM: HP has been a business disaster going back at least to 1999 when they put Carly Failurina in as CEO. I got stuck with their stock when the took over Compaq. In the late 90's I bought Dell and Compaq on the same day. I had an 800% return on Dell and ended up losing 50% on CPQ when I finally dumped the HP shares. Their Board is the most dysfunctional and useless of any publically held company.

Tell you what, though, if we're going to start talking about what they do in Europe, then let's do ALL of it. Let's start with universal health care, and THEN we can talk about taxing foreign subsidiaries.

___________________________________________________

AM: We have Barry's ClunkerCare as a start towards universal healthcare. So maybe you should be supporting the temporary tax holiday as a start towards European corporate tax policies.

The 99% is fed up and calling for fair play on tax rates. It is not going to go away.

JollyOS, assuming your income is in the highest tax bracket which currently stands at 35%, how does that equate to the Government taking half (50%)? Even if your bonus is considered income, that top rate is still 35%. If your bonus is considered "capital gains" then you pay only 15% tax rate on it. You also get to deduct those taxes on your "homes", the mortgages payments, perhaps dependent deductions, health insurance deductions, etc, so odds are you aren't paying anywhere near even the 35% rate. Sorry, JOS, what you claim doesn't match the current tax rates.

Jody - just stop with the tax talk.

You are hopelessly clueless. Or do you actually think only the feds take taxes?

Please go look up the definition of capital gains. Man - you have been trying to talk tax for years, yet you still have never even tried to read the code.

That's just por Jody, even for a libbie like you.

Jody is saying very clearly that the 'definition' does not match up with the 'reality'.

Same as all the people out demonstrating and protesting in Washington.

The same OWS the media is talking about,

and we've been writing about.

AM and Joe -- LOL the mobs description got me laughing Anna, and Joe well let's just say the vision you evoked had me laughing and choking on my morning caffeine. ; )

Jody, at the Federal level Bonuses are taxed at 25%. Across the board. If he is receiving his bonus in stocks or other 'held' instruments,...they are taxed as withdrawn (with gains or losses realized post issuance date).

Jody, Jolly has said in previous posts that he sends between $200 and $600 extra to the government every month above and beyond his taxes to voluntarily support the government, so I guess he does not feel his taxes are high enough. Personally I think Jolly is a teller of tall tales, a lot of what he has said in the past just doesn't add up in my opinion, but it is entertaining, and that is part of the fun of a blog.

frankusa-3241957

Backhouse wrote "And GOP is busy undermining the rights of people at every level, voting, limiting people's ability to sue, environmental regulations, you name it."

I guess the left does not consider forcing Citizens to purchase a product against thier will and having the President of the USA sign off on having a citizen murdered, without due process, which is violating federal law, and violating the bill of rights of the individual, undermining individual right

Your guess is incorrect. For every citizen without insurance it raises the cost of healthcare in America and makes the economy sick. You are forced to pay for hospital costs whenever someone without insurance rushes to the ER.

As far as the Supreme court will sort it out. The other 2 issue indicates you have no idea what treason and due process of the law is.

It's interesting that conservatives, usually strong advocates of capitalism, are now pushing a socialist tax policy. Tax re-distributors!!!

When that hypocritical jerk Warren Buffet

gets his company pay its roughly 1 BILLION in BACK taxes.. then maybe I'll listen to him talk about how he needs to be taxed more.

he likely thought that if he came out for raiseing taxes on the rich, the White house would tell the IRS to back off on trying to collect what the jerk already OWES to the US people.

Anna Molly and others, I am not going to argue in favor of repatriation but I guess I want to better understand what your alternative to it is? You guys always want to paint corporations as evil and point out one bad one when there are millions of corporations that are competing on a world wide basis. So lets take a non evil corporation like GM since they are owned by the unions and government these days I assume they arent evil. If they sell a car in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan or Thailand, they are competing against other car manufacturers and the price they can sell it is based on the total costs inbedded including the local tax rate. So if the local tax rate is 15% and GM is paying that tax, they at least are on a level playing field with the other competitors when it comes to tax rates even if not on payroll costs. The current reason that GM keeps the profits from cars sold in these countries offshore is that if they bring it back they are subject to a 35% tax rate. If they had to pay 35% tax on each dollar of profit they made in Thailand, the other car companies from countries (which is every other country in the world) other than the US have a huge competitive advantage and can sell their cars cheaper and GM loses market share and all of a sudden jobs are lost in the US manufacturing these cars. So GM leaves if offshore and then reinvests it when they can by building new plants to build the cars overseas etc because to bring it back means they cant afford to compete internationally. So is what your saying Anna Molly and others that you want to tax GM at 35% if repatriated? That will force these companies to never reinvest in the US but is that what you guys are advocating?

That said, if repatriated with little or no tax, that cash belongs to the shareholders of these companies so Buffet is right in that the cash is likely to be used to buy back stock or dividends, thats because the return on doing that is higher than reinvesting it here in the US. But that also presumes that when the cash is given back to mutual funds, union pension plans, endowments that this cash isnt being put to good use by the shareholders. Dont forget the people who own these global corporations are in general, pension plans almost all unions, endownments, 401(k) plans etc so that may be a good thing even if not a job creator. But what is your alternative? Is it to tax these companies at 35% and put the money in government hands to spend on government projects? Do you guys think thats really a better use of the money at the expense of global competitiveness? Do you really think that corporations wont lose jobs here in the US if they cant compete on a level playing field in foreign countries?

We see your black guy and your wealth re-distribution and raise you a black guy that owns a pizza joint and a tax re-distributor and it's your fault if you don't find this funny not the person who wrote this joke.

Jody, at the Federal level Bonuses are taxed at 25%. Across the board.

__________________________________________________

Clara, got any IRS documentation of that claim?? The last time I looked (April 2011) a bonus paid in cash is ordinary W-2 income and is taxed at whatever the tax rate the individual pays on their 1040.

Cantor and his friends not only did not have anything to say about the Tea Party protests, they egged them on by putting encouraging signs in their windows and watched and laughed as the TP actually spit on some of our politicians walking past.

Cantor = slime at it's best.

Please Spanky, let us know about your vast tax knowledge. I am an accountant. Its funny how Attorneys think they know everything, but all you really know is the law and not much of that. An attorney with a tax attorney on your payroll. Wow!

Joanna -

Sec Geithner: Mr. President, do you know how much a candy bar costs?
Bush: Nothing .
Sec Geithner: Do you know how much one of those new electric cars costs?
Bush: 'Nothing. I'll just leave the bill here and let the next democrat to walk in pay for it.

Feisty...no idea what that blathering has to do with the article written.

Amy B. Portland, ME

I forgot to say, my Tea Party brother asked me if I'd demonstrated with the Occupy Wall Street in Portland (it was really funny, I watched protesters entertaining the cruise ship passengers on Commercial Street yesterday. We love our tourists!)

My brother, the Tea Party guy, SUPPORTS the Occupy Wall Street movement. We had a brief moment of family unity dissing Wall Street for holding jobs hostage to keeping their tax rates low. It was nice. Also, we both like Ron Paul.

Thank you for that Amy. The press would like everyone to think the Tea Party is all about big business and banking corporatism. It isn't. It wouldn't surprise me to find a lot of activist types that do want reduced government spending to also want limits and controls placed on banks and Wall Street.

As far as the article goes....if Perry has to win in New Hampshire I think he's pretty screwed (as I thought he was from the start). I like Ron Paul, but I also kind of like Huntsman too.

I'm fiscally very conservative and can see that the rate of government spending cannot continue. The size of the government is too big and as an entity it is much too intrusive. For that reason I identify with the republicans.

But where a lot of the party goes wrong (and this is where the independent vote is going to be important), is the serious religious right wingers like Perry. I would like to see a third party that advocates freedoms and a small government. Gay marriage? Go for it! Doesn't hurt me and it should be within their rights....I really don't care what the religious groups want to use for a definition of marriage (separation of Church and State). Pro-Choice versus Pro-Life....there are no easy answers here and I think if anything, leave it to being a personal decision, albiet a difficult one.

Last thought....why isn't Ron Paul allowed to get any mention by the mainstream media?

good post fiesty.i guess its time to actually start protesting the lack of representation for the 99 percent of us.i noticed the government was fighting the people for the rich again in boston.says something when a 30 year old cop is knocking down some 60 plus year old woman.time to fight back for me.even if its only protesting a government of the rich for the rich and by the rich.ill be there.join us readers and help take back your government

Just last week I stated that the Occupy movement would likely attract quite a few Tea Party people and JoAnna and others jumped all over it saying that the Tea Party supporters would be totally opposed to the protests and there was no chance of people switching sides or supporting both.

This has to really scare the GOP who totally pandered to the Tea Party and threw all their political capital to them and backed themselves into a corner signing pledges. There's no way the GOP can or will back the Occupy movement, so they're stuck with all their eggs in the TP basket which appears to be losing steam while the Occupy crowd is definitely ramping up.

By next year, the Occupy movement could easily dwarf the Tea Party in both numbers and influence heading into the elections. It'll take another few elections to throw the 2010 Tea Party bums out, but the GOP will be seriously hurting for new seats and holding on to the ones they have if the real majority in America shows up at the polls in 2012.

Joe,

http://www.irs.gov/irb/2006-37_IRB/ar09.html

I don't do taxes for a living, so there may be some nuance I am missing (like my wage is NOT over 1,000,000/year); but my bonus this year was taxed at 25%. So if that was errant,...please let me know!

JoAnnaSmith1

*** How many Senate votes will Obama's jobs bill get?

Obama works his magic again, and again, just like with his budget, his own parties Senators will abandon him.

Harvey Golub, former chairman of American Express, called the "jobs" bill an incoherent mess. Writing in The Wall Street Journal, he said that among other flaws, the bill includes an unheard of retroactive tax hike on the holders of municipal bonds.

"Many of us have suspected that economic illiterates were setting the economic policy of this administration," Golub wrote, adding that the bill "reveals a depth of cluelessness that boggles the mind."

Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/aimless_obama_walks_alone_OUgoMTkORRJioLl7B6ZYmN/1

Harvey Golub, huh? Isn't this the same prick who was the CEO of AIB? You're going to have to excuse my lack of faith in anything that guy says in any publication, let alone the New York Post.

First of all for every protester you see in the flesh there are many more in spirit, it is now spreading across the country and it is not just a bunch of "hippies" like the war protests in the 60's, those kids went to college or lived in their parents and went home to their warm comfortable beds and well stocked refrigerators each night. These protests include people of all ages, older people who have or feel they are about to lose everything, many are working people not college kids, the college kids do not see the opportunity for the future America is supposed to provide. These people have serious concerns, desperate concerns, and they represent a large cross section of the population from coast to coast.

The important thing is, if you are involved in or support the OWS movement, then make sure that you get people registered to vote early, there are numerous voting rule changes in counties all around the country, make sure you know exactly what they are so you can get the boots on the ground, get people properly registered and the votes tallied next November. We will see in a year if this is a rag tag bunch of lazy socialist misfits who will fade, or if it is a large enough and motivated enough of a group to make some political heads roll.

Free advice for democratic incumbents, don't worry about the tea party when you vote for the rest of the year, by next November the tea party will likely be the least of your political concerns.

Free advice for republican incumbents, keep calling these people lazy, stinky, mobs, who want nothing more than a handout, stick hard with that, you will be just fine, these foolish protesters of all ages from coast to coast are no match for a few old people with tea bags hanging from their straw hats.

Don't forget about your bluedog democrats, too stupid to stick with their party, but smart enough to get re-elected!

Joe:

AM: We have Barry's ClunkerCare as a start towards universal healthcare. So maybe you should be supporting the temporary tax holiday as a start towards European corporate tax policies.

If I thought the Affordable Care Act was really a start toward universal health care, I might agree with that.

But, no.

@ Clara --

I think you and Joe may be talking apples and oranges. I believe Joe is talking about the actual "tax" rate, and your linked publication goes to the standard "withholding" rate for bonuses, which might be different from the effective tax rate in many cases.

@ don't_carry_it_all --

You're welcome for the laugh. Congress is a mob, no matter which definition you choose.

Agreed as to Joe's image. He's just lucky the marks weren't left on his face. ;-)

bob 128 ...:

Joanna -

Sec Geithner: Mr. President, do you know how much a candy bar costs?
Bush: Nothing .
Sec Geithner: Do you know how much one of those new electric cars costs?
Bush: 'Nothing. I'll just leave the bill here and let the next democrat to walk in pay for it.

LoL You must be the liberal bob. How on earth do you tell yourselves apart? Thank you for this.

Forrest - appreciate the support, but don't call the war protestors of the 60's "a bunch of hippies." I was out there, and I was a suburban mother of two. And I voted for Nixon in 1968 because he was the "anti-war" candidate. Go figure.

Someone on this blog quoted Ghandi last week - First they ignore us, then they ridicule us, then they fight us, then we win.

We can do it. We ended segregation. We ended a war. We can do this!

But Forrest is right - the proof of the pudding is in the voting booth. Get your boots on the ground.

but my bonus this year was taxed at 25%. So if that was errant,...please let me know!

________________________________________________

Clara, you and the IRS link you provided are referring to the amount of taxes withheld from your bonus check. That's not the same thing as the tax rate you pay on your 1040. Page 98 of the 2010 1040 Instructions has the tax rates you will pay on your taxable income ranging from 10% to 35%

Scary Perry is a non issue. You can't have someone running for president who can't run on issues. He only runs on the insults he flings at others. Pretty much like a monkey in the zoo throwing crap at the zoo patrons. It's the only defense he has. Probaly has the IQ of a monkey too.

MKM1944 I meant no disrespect for the protesters who were exercising their rights as concerned citizens of the US, I was repeating the depictions many use to describe them with here. However I did add that in the 60's the economic times were different and people did go home to their nice homes and well stocked refrigerators at night, this is different there are a lot of people of all ages suffering out there, people that are losing everything, that makes this potentially much more powerful. It needs to stay peaceful, it needs to be organized and harnessed properly, and it will be. It is a better way to sell American freedom and win the hearts and minds of people interested in democracy around the world than invading them. Peaceful protesting is patriotic.

@MB 1.29 If that is true then some republicans better jump in and vote for it or they will go down with the ship as well, it is going to be an ugly election cycle for all incumbents, including some democrats. Remember what republicans promised everybody when they tortured democrats in the mid terms, they promised them jobs, not more layoffs, they may have forgotten this but evidently people all across the nation have not, if things don't improve fast republicans will bear the brunt no matter who is at fault, they made the promise.

My homes are paid for, and I have NO dependents that I can take beside me and my wife. So I more than likely do pay about 35%. ( it seems like more) And I do send in every month extra money to the general fund. In a few day I will assess my monthly expenses and give them another sum of money. Please understand that my home here in Detroit is in the hood and though its a nice old home, its not worth a whole lot, I choose to live here because I enjoy living with people who are vibrant and alive......and down town Detroit is about as vibrant and alive as you can get.

Well good for you Jolly, maybe the tall tales thing is my mistake then, now that you suddenly describe Detroit as a vibrant alive happening place, you have never done that before, you usually describe it, and the people that live there as being the creators of the ultimate crap hole, like today in another post for example. The brand new vibrant and alive description does make you sound more like a Jolly Old Soul.

Forrest, Terrific post at 1.70!

Folks across the US must know the voting rules in their States. The rules keep changing as GOP Governors try to make it harder and harder to vote. Isn't it our constitutional right, or what?

Here are a few of the latest changes:

In Georgia: early voting is being cut down from 45 to 21 days.
Wisconsin: early voting 30 days down to 14 days.
Now at the polls in WI, IN, TN, SC, GA, KS and TX ~ photo identification is required.
In Maine: No more same day voting. (Same day registration and vote has been going since 1970's, especially good for working people on a tight schedule.)
In South Carolina: Nikki Haley made it a requirement for 200,000 to produce photo ID.
In Colorado: Secretary of State is suing to stop Denver from mailing out ballots. He wants mailouts to go only to folks who voted in 2010.
In Ohio: R. Governor Kasich reduced early voting time to half, absentee voting time cut almost in half. This attempt by Kasich may be challenged by ballot.

Updated as of September 8/11:

Thirty states require all voters to show ID before voting at the polls. In 14 of these, the ID must include a photo of the voter; in the remaining 16, non-photo forms of ID are acceptable. Voter ID laws can be broken down into the three following categories:

1. Strict Photo ID (7 states):

2. Photo ID (7 states): see ref below

3. Non-Photo ID (16 states): see ref below

(see ref below for deails on states)

http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=16602

You have to deliver the votes to get any meaningful response.

Anna Molly Kinda sounds like unions, corporations and the Occupy Movement also.

Awww...how sad...nobody answering Spanky...

...how...insignificant...he has become...

Forrest?

Well, that is so.

But let's do the researchon the voting rules in our States well in advance.

And keep up with the finaigling from the right.

I mean like,

by the actual day of voting we may all be required to cipher in Swahili, while wearing tiny tutus and tappy tap shoes.

I am going to look pretty silly getting fitted for a tutu, but if that is what it takes, then that is what I'll do.

See you there!

Interesting. what exactly is wrong with showing some form of photo ID to vote?

I mean by some standards its the most important thing a citizen can do. (some figure paying taxes comes in first)

So how.. is requiring someone to show a Photo ID wrong? Who does it hurt? What is wrong with requiring someone to prove their identity,that they are a citizen and are legaly allowed to vote?

Heck you pretty much have to show a photo id to use a credit card in some places, and many folks support that with all the Identity thefts happening.

but some howwhen it comes to voteing, its bad?

And as for states changeing their early voteing rules. the lowest you mentioned was... Wow.. 14 days.. you mean 2freaking WEEKS before the actualy voteing 'Day' isn't enough? that somehow if someone wanted to vote they couldn't find the time in 2 freaking WEEKS?

Yea.. sure is evil to make sure the people voting are actually allowed to. Sure is evil to give folks 2 whole freaking weeks to find 15 mins or so out of their busy schedule to cast their vote..

Yea.. so evil.. heck we might not be able to do nearly as much of the Democratic tradition of 'Vote early, Vote Often.' Why it might make it harder for DEAD people to cast their vote for us as well! DEAD people have the right to vote too! We had a medium check with the dead and all the spirits say 'Vote a straight D ticket!

Heck it might prevent Illegal aliens and then they won't get their say in how our nation is run! and thats just wrong!

The nerve of some people actualy expecting someone to prove they are elligable to vote. trying to set reasonable limits to voteing in order to help keep it better controlled and more accountable.

Overwhelming support???????........then send them the babysitting and maid service bill .......this has cost NYC taxpayers over $2 Million already........Have admitted Communist organizing the mob.........now they are doing union run personal attacks.......Hugo Chavez just threw his endorsement in also.......working Americans will not stand for this hooligan crap long.

Check out the 53$ Movement

communists organizing the mob huh.working americans and especially people that can read wont believe your lies.lord theyll say anything and i mean anything to try to stop this movement

@johnQcitizen - rather like some folks trying everything to stop the tea party isn't it?

Oh wait that's right.. because you don't agree with the tea party its a-ok to insult, berate, belittle them. Call them terrorists, you name it.

But when some group, that is spouting the same thing you believe it. well WOW, they are so cool! they really represent the feelings of most Americans!

this be ammuseing if it weren't so sad.

Van Jones is an admitted and well documented Communist........look it up. Now he works for George Soros since he was kicked out of the WH.

whoops thats the 53% Movement.

The Main Stream Media is certainly very excited about the Occupy protesters. Certainly much more excited than they were about any Tea Party event:

So enthused about promoting the far-left protests, ABC anchor Diane Sawyer on Monday night championed “the Occupy Wall Street movement” by ludicrously claiming that “as of tonight, it has spread to more than 250 American cities, more than a thousand countries -- every continent but Antarctica.”

Protests against the wealthy in “thousands of countries,” including Cuba, China and every country in Africa? Per the U.S. State Department, however, there are only 195 nation states in the world, so Sawyer imagined five times as many protests as could possibly have occurred.

Source: http://mrctv.org/videos/diane-sawyer-claims-wall-street-protests-have-%E2%80%98spread-more-thousand-countries%E2%80%99

A thousand countries? Wow. That is impressive. Why not say a million countries and really impress everyone? The Liberal media certainly gets excited about these things, it fits their agenda much more closely than the Tea Party. The media loves to make up a few numbers, do some cheerleading. I'm sure the teachers union will support Diane by having all their textbooks updated to show there are now a 1000 countries.

Motto for the MSM: We lie, you believe.

"Motto for the MSM: We lie, you believe."

I've seen quite a bit of bragging about Fox's ratings. That makes them 'Mainstream', right, Smiff?

Looks like I have to agree with one of your posts today. Congrats.

If Fox News is so bad, why have they been the # 1 Cable News Provider for 9 of the past 15 years? Also, why is it that FOX News is the most watched cable news network during prime time by a whopping TWO TO ONE ratio over any competitor?.....isn't success or being # 1 recognized for what it is anymore?

Good point, dbo. It's also worth noting her source of supposedly "factual" information;

Media Research Center Inc. (MRC) is a conservative media watchdog group run by president and founder Brent Bozell. In 2006 the MRC had total revenue of $10.8 million^[1] and 50 full-time staff members. It is predominately funded by larger right-wing foundations (see below) with other comparatively minor sources of income from rental income and investments. In it's 2006 annual report, the group's founder wrote that MRC "continued to regularly provide intellectual ammunition to conservative activists, arming them with the weapons to fight the leftist press."^[2]

The MRC operates a number of subsidiary projects including the Business & Media Institute (formerly known as the the Free Market Project); CNSNews.com, a conservative news service; the NewsBusters blog; TimesWatch, a website focusing on the New York Times; the Culture and Media Institute and the MRC Action Team.

(The Parents Television Council was founded in 1995 as a MRC project but, in 2000, was split off to become a separate legal entity. Brent Bozell, who founded the MRC, was president of both organisations until January 2007, when he resigned as President of the PTC but remains a member of the board of directors.^[3])

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Media_Research_Center

Her attack upon OWS by a big, corporatist PR tool only makes my case.

Her attack upon OWS by a big, corporatist PR tool only makes my case.

I've noticed her slip is showing lately JohnB!

So much so she's reduced to maligning the handicapped!

BTW: Great Post!

John B., Good point, dbo. It's also worth noting her source of supposedly "factual" information;

John, you are a cut up, really you are. Something to be cherished for sure.

John, the number of countries quote was a direct quote from Sawyer. Do you understand what direct quotes are John? That means the person actually said it. And there you are, attacking the source where it was printed. Poor John, maybe you should run off and get the quote from Thinkprogress?

John B:

I think the OWS group is, in one very important respect, quite similar to the GOPTP. Within the "OWS Movement" - if it warrants a label - are a number of fairly clearly identifiable groups.

One tends to view the GOPTP as something of a monolith, when in fact it includes single-issue groups like gunners, the ridiculously labeled "Pro-Lifer's", Teabangelicals, theocrats, and the like. They find a home for their extreme views within the GOPTP, all the while unknowingly promoting the agenda of the rich and the super-rich.

So too it is with the OWS. One group is aggrieved because of student loan debt. One group actually understands that Wall Street thieves and their cronies are stealing the world's wealth, one group is concerned about the lack of jobs, and so on. For a certainty, they have no home in the GOPTP. The real question is whether these people understand that they must vote to achieve their ends.

The OWS'ers must work to see that the extreme right-wing is destroyed, reduced to cinders, to remain a blot on our national memory that we must never forget. They must also commit themselves to demanding that Democrats restore fiscal responsibility, while balancing that against the cost of securing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans, not just the wealthy.

Protest is about far more than carrying signs and waving fingers to express poutrage. It is work. Indeed, it is war.

I feel compelled to remind everyone that FOX concentrates the yahooz in one easy to find location,...whereby the legitimate news sources have a dillutive effect:

CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CSPAN, CNN, MSNBC, Bloomberg, etc. etc. etc.

and I always love to drive the point home with THIS gem:

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/maryland-study-finds-a-massive-amount-of-misinformation-spread-through-media

Bummer deal, there. But bears up with FACTS.

Looks like Dem pols are starting to align themselves with the "OccupyAndAnnoy" crowd. This is great. For Republicans. As we speak, I know people putting together chain emails filled with the pictures and slogans of the "Occupiers". Anyone who thinks these fools represent the middle class and average Americans is full of crap. Middle class Americans don't desecrate the flag, poop on police cars, attack the police, go days without bathing or grooming. Middle class Americans don't spend days out in the street demanding OTHER people support them.

By the way, that's a great aspect of the "Occupiers" that I hadn't heard; "pay off everyone's student loans." Basically, make college free. Idiot spoiled college kid: "I graduated with a degree in Lesbian Cultural History and now I can't find a job!" "Hey! Make the taxpayer pay off my loans!"

John B, terrific and informative post. David Walker, good points. Clara, perfect description of FOX.

I should add that Sarah Palin said FOX provides "misinformation". One would think that having the darling of the TP speak the truth would force FOX viewers to at least check the facts instead of nodding their heads in agreement. Too bad there is always a certain segment of right or left folks who simply listen and nod heads because what they hear is what they want to hear. I lean left but do not believe or agree with everything the left says or does.

If Fox News is so bad, why have they been the # 1 Cable News Provider for 9 of the past 15 years?

Uh, because it's entertaining? I don't watch Fox for "news", I get my news from PBS and my entertainment from Fox. There are some cuties on there too (I tune out when Greta is on though).

Looks like Bloomberg is finally getting tired of the group hanging out in a park off Wall Street. Seems they knock over the Porta-potties, preferring to use the streets to take care of their bodily functions. One highly enlightened individual used a police cruiser to do what, uh, bears do in the woods.

It's costing the city a fortune to patrol the area- at a time when the budget needs cutting by $2 billion.

Even Ed Rendell advised that it was time for them to go home. He sees what's coming- he remembers 1968- and knows that these "anti-corporatists", bearing laptops, cellphones, ipads, and the like, are doing more harm than good.

Given the topic of this thread, I'm kind of surprised that no one bothered to mention this information

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/us/recession-officially-over-us-incomes-kept-falling.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So, Obama has presided over the greatest loss of median income in, well, ever. This took place AFTER the recovery. After his almost trillion dollar stimulous. After his 9000+ earmark omnibus spending bill. After HCR.

That's one heck of a job there. It's also why he is doomed, politically- along with what's left of his party.

The problem is relatively simple- nothing he has done to now has worked, therefore, no one expects that any of his proposals will work. This is born out in "direction of the country" polls, in consumer confidence polls, and in approval polls.

Sim and Sargent were awarded, today, the Nobel prize for Economics for their work examining the effectiveness of government policies and programs weighed against rational expectations. While they did not have any POLICY answers to provide relief, they do understand that, with Obama at the helm, the economy will never recover, because folks have no faith that he can turn the economy around.

They cite, as an example of this at work, the serious inflation problem of the late 1970s. Economic theory showed that high lending rates would EVENTUALLY work to bring down inflation rates- eventually being a pretty long period of time.

Many, if not most, economists were shocked at how quickly inflation was broken. The reason? People BELIEVED that prices would stop rising precipitously, thus adjusted their buying habits. That's rational expectations at work.

Would not have happened had Carter been reelected.

That is what is important for this batch of GOP candidates, and, I suspect, the reason for Cain's surge in the polls. The electorate is seeking someone who can turn the economy around. They want a plan they can believe in- and, once elected, that person will be able to count on the change of attitude of the people to help him succeed.

So, the question becomes, why did Obama, with such lofty approval numbers, fail, and lose the faith of the electorate?

Quite simply because he lied.

People were angry about spending, and he promised to cut it.

Then he increased it, wildly.

He talked about pragmatic, centrist solutions-then implemented Keynesian policies with support from only his party.

When poll after poll showed that his policies were unpopular, he ignored them, rammed through his agenda, and seems genuinely stunned that, figuratively speaking, square wheels don't roll.

His solution? Do it all over again.

Leaving aside the fact that that is the definition of insanity, the people have decided that, based on his performance, he is hopeless at the job. Their rational expectation is that his policies will either make things worse, or have no effect while spending kabillions of dollars, thus making the country poorer.

The way to get the economy moving again is to cut spending- real cuts, not cuts in the rate of increase. That will give people the sense that economic discipline has been restored, and their level of confidence will increase. When that happens, the economy will take off.

None of that will happen under Obama, which is why he has no chance at all of being reelected.

No matter what the voices in his head tell him.

IReckon2012:

The reason that FOX is popular comes from the situation of a monopoly. To be more specific, the "left leaning" media stations are numerous. Some are more "balanced" and more reputable than others. Yet in the end, the left wing people have choices about which news station to watch for their information.

However the right wing doesn't really have a lot of choice. There's FOX and.... Well that's it. There's FOX. When you concentrate all of the political followers that argueably make up about 50% of the "declared party" voter affiliation into a single news network, it is inevitable that they'll have a much higher viewership than the other news networks.

There is a difference between being #1 in terms of quality and being #1 because it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

The Jerry Springer show was #1 and had many loyal viewers. I wonder what the demographics were behind the numbers. The point is many shows are popular and usually for their entertainment value. In the case of Fox News I would say a portion of their viewers are the opposite party checking in to see what the other side is saying. Opinion based shows are an opinion and not news. So how much of Fox news is devoted to straight news minus shows like O'Reilly or Hannity? The same could be said of most cable news channels now. Some people like to be entertained.

If Fox News is so bad, why have they been the # 1 Cable News Provider for 9 of the past 15 years?

Because only stupid people watch TV anymore. Smart people have switched to the Internet.

Well Amy, you may be on to something there.

On the Tee-vee Dianne Sawyer said the Occupiers movement had spread to 1000 countries.

Tell me Amy, without googling it, if it spread to every country in the world, estimate how many countries she might be off by?

She also said it spread to every continent but one. Do you know how many continents that would be Amy?

No fair using the intra-web, you're the smart one who doesn't watch tee-vee, right?

Great post from Clara - worth a read.

To quote:

"MSNBC and NPR audiences were found to be least misinformed on the basic questions of fact. The study points to Fox News as the chief misinformer among the three major cable news outlets. The following is a list of instances in which Fox News viewers were more likely to be misinformed on a given issue:

• most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely)
• most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)
• the economy is getting worse (26 points)
• most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)
• the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points)
• their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)
• the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)
• when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points)
• and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)

Even more revealing, people who watched Fox News multiple times a day or everyday were found to be more misinformed than those who just watched Fox News occasionally. Among those who watched Fox News almost every day:

- 72% believe the economy is getting worse.

- 49% believe their taxes have gone up under President Obama.

- 63% believe the stimulus did not create any tax cuts.

- 47% believe that TARP was passed into law and signed by President Obama."

Fox News continues to do this country a tremendous disservice.

I agree Amy. JohnB Great post and second Jody on her kudos. Fox appeals to the lowest common denominator, whether it be news or entertainment and sometimes it is hard to distinguish between them.

As I have traveled around this country, I always check out the TV channels to see what they offer, inevitably Fox is available also CNN but rarely MSNBC. No wonder the voters are so uninformed on the real world, they are constantly fed the GOPTV propaganda, and as so many are intellectually lazy they accept what is blaring at them all the time. Maybe now that Comcast owns NBC and family they will offer a better package

IReckon2012

If Fox News is so bad, why have they been the # 1 Cable News Provider for 9 of the past 15 years? Also, why is it that FOX News is the most watched cable news network during prime time by a whopping TWO TO ONE ratio over any competitor?.....isn't success or being # 1 recognized for what it is anymore?

That would be because not only are the majority of FOX-ITES are stupid and posseses a lizard brain but in some regions they are the only provided service.

Talk about brainwashing; Woow, none other FOX does it better.

======================================================

I am writing this to show the level of Prejudice exerted by Corporate Media, like FOX NEWS, against sparsely populated rural areas and provide another example of Rupert's disgusting "profits not people" attitude within the United States.

Out here in the country we know a Fox smells its 'own hole' first and that it stinks as bad as the feces one sees on Fox News!

http://www.flyingsnail.com/Dahbud/kmamurdoch.html

To follow up on Clara & Belfast Lads excellent observations.

I found this article pointing out on the CNN blogs they will call you a idiot... whereas on MSNBC they will take the time to explain WHY you're an idiot! lol

CNN.com had the most comments on its stories, but also more “name-calling, off-topic comments and what I suspect were fake accounts (aka ‘sock puppets’),” as well as more violent comments. “For example, there were at least 8 different calls for cutting off hands or fingers of LulzSec members.”

Comments on msnbc.com were much longer and written at a higher level than CNN.com. Libert attributed the difference in length “to the fact that on CNN somebody may call you an idiot, but on MSNBC they will take the time to tell you why you are an idiot.”

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.poynter.org%2Flatest-news%2Fromenesko%2F146666%2Fstudy-commenters-on-cnn-com-may-call-you-an-idiot-on-msnbc-com-they-tell-you-why-youre-an-idiot%2F&ei=716UTqvpFtKgsQKZt63vAQ&usg=AFQjCNFCZeaegM1A0wYlrRscbLONjqnwLQ

At some point you need to start spelling correctly and making sense?

Good points Feisty, especially like this on MSNBC they will take the time to tell you why you are an idiot.” lol

Watch Martin Bashir, eviscerate some of them, everyday at 3pm MSNBC

And speaking of stupid people Amy - where you embarrassed when they picked your question yesterday in Boiler Room?

Did you love the way Murray deftly handled your numbers?

Amy, it's always easy to call others stupid, make fun of them, or denigrate. But given that you showed us all you can even add to 100, or understand what 100% is, I'm a little surprised by your comment above.

Thanks Feisty

The sad, sad state of our politics depends, not upon your ethics or credentials, but upon your ability to raise money - most likely from a few wealthy donors looking for a return. (Remember, corporations are people too)

With your coffers full, you can inflame your base with what they want to hear. Just remember, the facts are irrelevent against the big prize:

*Healthcare reform was not necessary

*Socialized medicine does not work

*The stimulus was a failure

*Tarp lost money for the taxpayers

*Obama is a Kenyan born Muslim who has done nothing in his first three years

*The global economy has no effect on America

Our great country wallows in the time and money spent propogating puppets whose vision is limited to an election cycle and paying back their masters. Both sides are guilty and the media is not motivated to suggest it change.

MSNBC they will take the time to tell you why you are an idiot.” lol

I know... lol

Is it any wonder we're as occupied as we are? ;o)

So much material to chose from... so little time...

PS: Martin gets better with each passing week! I wasn't sure about him in the beginning...

When one concentrates on small inconsequential bits of information (1,000 countries and port-a-potties, and Fox news ratings) and ignores the major points (jobs, taxes, inequality) that says something about how serious one is about fixing the country.

As expected FR Conservatives are concentrating on their preferred deflection of discrediting OWS and totally ignoring the meat and potatoes of my post. To be specific NONE OF THEM have addressed the following:

So the gist of the matter is, the money-changers are glomming onto the profits needed by the ACTUAL job creators...businesses who hire people, build things, and provide value over and above simply having access to capital. Yeah, they deserve a reasonable Return On Investment, but nearly 1/3 of ALL corporate profits is so excessive that it hinders the ability of their customers to serve as engines of the economy. Usury, the practice of predatory lending universally condemned by all the world's great religious, philosophical, and moral traditions, has become the model for Wall Street.

For additional proof of this look here http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/nipa0328111_big.gif for a chart showing the proportion of profits attributed to the financial sector since just after WWII. You can see that during the most successful years in US history the rate hovered between 10%-20%. You can see that the remarkable success of the economy during the Clinton Administration coincided with a steady DECREASE in the share of all profits claimed by the financial sector. You can even see that most recessionary periods -- 1949, 1953, 1957, 1960, 1969, 1973, 1980, 1990, 2001 -- ALL coincide pretty closely with preceding upswings in percentage of total profit claimed by the financial sector. The 1981 and 2007 recessions are exceptions, but it's worth noting that in both of these periods the economy was already weak from a prior recession and the percentage of profits held by the financial sector were still well above the 10%-20% rate which held sway when the US economy was historically strongest.

Discredit OWS? You are kidding, right John B?

It will be a success. A year or two from now we will have:

1. a living wage [$20 per hour] for everyone, whether working or not.

2. All debt will be wiped out. and

3. Ganja will be legal and readily available.

That is what OWS is about so I expect it to come true. Like the Tea Party - Debt and tax control is the new reality, even according to President Awesome.

Oh and John - you hearing anything re: the Buffett tax anymore?

Yeah, me neither. Guess they abandoned you on that one.

Belfast -- What I found in the case of my parents who often watched Fox was that they were always angry and upset. Both have tuned out over this past summer for good. As I do not watch TV much it was hard for me to deal with the things that upset them. They were upset over things that had no factual merits but more to do with conjectures.

JoAnna Smith1, Do not worry about your critics here at MSNBC. They are more comfortable with the status quo worshipping at the Democrat altar.. Instead , they should do what Herman Cain did many years ago. He "got off the Democrat Plantation."......

Belfast Lad, great post.

I'll add that not only does FOX do a disservice to the country, they do a disservice to the conservative audience because they push the talking points of big business and the powerful falsely giving their viewers the idea that the GOP has their best interests at heart when the GOP is beholding to big business and the powerful and could not care less about the average conservative. Of course, that is the intent of Rupert Murdoch and FOX--trick the faithful and loyal viewers who make FOX and Murdoch even wealthier and more powerful.

Gingerbread Mamma, agree with your comment on Martin Bashir. He's terrific. He's the best day-time entertainment show host on MSNBC because he doesn't let the nonsense go unchallenged. While I enjoy the other news hosts, they are doing the news.

Feisty, I had not seen that article, thanks for posting. Proof that FR and MSNBC is the place to talk politics and policy. Love that line" but on MSNBC, they will take the time to tell you why you are an idiot." So true!

Hank Williams Jr. has a bone to pick with Fox seems that they fired him for "insulting" Obama during an interview, so they pulled his intro for NFL games, it seems he has written a new song and in it he is telling people not to watch Fox, because he feels they punished him for his right to free speech and somewhat misrepresented what he said and the context in which he said it. It seems Fox News is willing to make sport of the president but Fox Sports is not.

NJNB -- Are you arguing against that Keynesian theory when it comes to tax cuts? You seem to like the theory when it fits your foot.

'Keynes contended that a general glut would occur when aggregate demand for goods was insufficient, leading to an economic downturnresulting in losses of potential output due to unnecessarily highunemployment, which results from the defensive (or reactive) decisions of the producers. In such a situation, government policies could be used to increase aggregate demand, thus increasing economic activity and reducing unemployment and deflation. Most Keynesians advocate an activist stabilization policy to reduce the amplitude of the business cycle, which they rank among the most serious of economic problems. For example, when the unemployment rate is very high, a government can use a dose of expansionary monetary policy.'

Does not tax cuts fall under the government's power to enact such policy?

It's been 3 1/2 hours since I first put up the data, over an hour since I repeated it, showing that business is sluggish because the financial sector is claiming an excessively large portion of profit.

This is obviously a point with which Conservatives are extremely uncomfortable and wish to avoid at all costs.

Forrest:

Fox Sports makes a great deal of money following the activities of unionized workers - baseball players, football players, basketball players - you know, those grossly overpaid, slothful types.

They had to make a decision. Do you hang on to a drunken, redneck, neverwas or do you keep the goose that lays the golden eggs?

Jody, Iowa

Martin Bashir. He's terrific.

Indeed unlike those blokes on FOX Business which does not even have a Nielson rating due to its low viewership. Bashir has redeemed himself with me since the Micheal Jackson interview. Bashir is sharp as a tack and has a masterful command of the Queens English. I love his accent.

Sure. I guess FOX NEWS mega-high ratings and millions of viewers mean nothing. Then again, millions of people voted for Obama and we all know what a big mistake that was. I guess all those people were just stupid.

Damage123

Sure. I guess FOX NEWS mega-high ratings and millions of viewers mean nothing. Then again, millions of people voted for Obama and we all know what a big mistake that was. I guess all those people were just stupid.

Right, the President brought all the stupidity and jealousy out of your closest that you need to work. That is great it makes you a better person in the long run. I repeat...

Not only are the majority of FOX-ITES stupid and possess a lizard brain but in some regions they are the only provided service.

Talk about brainwashing; Woow, none other than FOX does it better for lizard and bird brains.

======================================================

Read this so you can learn something.

I am writing this to show the level of Prejudice exerted by Corporate Media, like FOX NEWS, against sparsely populated rural areas and provide another example of Rupert's disgusting "profits not people" attitude within the United States.

Out here in the country we know a Fox smells its 'own hole' first and that it stinks as bad as the feces one sees on Fox News!

----------------------------------------------------

Got it?

John B -- Nice post and I caught the WSJ piece.

In 2007 the anomaly may be all in the the figures put on paper perhaps? ; )

Questions:

a. Why are the police trying to stop peaceful people trying to exercise freedom of speech?

b. Why didn't they stop the Tea-baggers

c. Is it true the sock puppets @ FOX NOISE and Cantor wanting to stop this movement may be the reason?

Long Overdue

U.S. Marine Tells Hannity To 'F**k Off'

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/11/u-s-marine-tells-hannity-to-fk-off/

Thank you David Walker, money talks and the BS walks. It's never been any other way when an employee creates unnecessary problems between an owner and his customers.

Beverly wrote:

Out here in the country we know a Fox smells its 'own hole' first and that it stinks as bad as the feces one sees on Fox News!

And I thought Beverly was a city gal. Seems she knows an awful lot about Fox news... must be she watches it all the time.

John, I rebutted your point in my post. Unfortunately, you don't understand economics- and regurgitating talking points from others positing an unproven theory, ( with carefully tailored statistics to "prove" its validity), does nothing whatsoever to either fix the economy- or your understanding of what is wrong.

It's unsurprising that you did not understand the rebuttal. You don't even understand the problem.

Bev--Maybe the "Occudorks"are trespassing and breaking other laws. Breaking the law is...um...illegal. The Tea Party people don't usually rally in cities. Also, they are smart enough to get permits, keep the place clean etc...They also don't crap in public like these filthy "OccuPoopers."

You people better hope Obama doesn't get to close to thse Aholes. Remember 1968? Presidents associating with unwashed radicals causes middle America to SPRINT to the Republican lever in the voting booth.

By the way, is the "Fox is the only channel available in some areas" your latest excuse for their HUGE success? Of course it is. What's your excuse for the "shellacking" the Dems took last November? Are DEmocrat levers only available in voting booths in "some areas?"

Brianb-999431

Beverly wrote:

Out here in the country we know a Fox smells its 'own hole' first and that it stinks as bad as the feces one sees on Fox News!

And I thought Beverly was a city girl

Brianb I'm sorry the link got edited. Now you won't be so apt to accuse me of being a Liar. Those are not my words. Read the story.

http://www.flyingsnail.com/Dahbud/kmamurdoch.html

@Damage123,

Face it money from the Kochoctupus gave US the Tea suckers.

Bet it won't happen again.

JoAnnaSmith1

John B., Good point, dbo. It's also worth noting her source of supposedly "factual" information;

John, you are a cut up, really you are. Something to be cherished for sure.

John, the number of countries quote was a direct quote from Sawyer. Do you understand what direct quotes are John? That means the person actually said it. And there you are, attacking the source where it was printed. Poor John, maybe you should run off and get the quote from Thinkprogress?

I noticed, JoAnna, when you were trolling John, that you made it a point, JoAnna, to say his name over and over. I'm not sure, why you would do this, JoAnna.

Regardless, JoAnna, I guess that the mistake you're making, JoAnna, is that -- somehow -- Diane Sawyer is relevant to the discussion or .

But since we're discussing the validity of talking heads, JoAnna, would you mind backtracking in an earlier thread, JoAnna, where I called one of your doom and gloomers?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/11/8269317-first-thoughts-do-or-die-time-for-perry?threadId=3242856&commentId=58868835#c58868835

JoAnna?

...

JoAnna?

...

*tap tap tap* Is this thing on?

--

Fess up: anything that you suspect is a just a hair left-of-far-right is automatically targeted for your hate, regardless of the level of "progressivism."

White Collar Auto

Well Amy, you may be on to something there.

On the Tee-vee Dianne Sawyer said the Occupiers movement had spread to 1000 countries.

Tell me Amy, without googling it, if it spread to every country in the world, estimate how many countries she might be off by?

She also said it spread to every continent but one. Do you know how many continents that would be Amy?

No fair using the intra-web, you're the smart one who doesn't watch tee-vee, right?

Smarmy pr*ck. Troll better be able to back his sh*t talk up. How many countries are there, white collar? I'm guessing your powers of recall aren't any better than any other average person. So, we'll change the game a bit.

I'll make this easier: what is the newest country in the world? It just happened not too long ago.**

What I said to JoAnneSmith goes for you, too. You're putting far too much merit in Ms. Sawyer's influence. I don't recall OWS hiring her as a spokesperson.

.

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.

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.

.

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** [psst] South Sudan

John, I rebutted your point in my post.

No you didn't. You accused Barack Obama of being a liar and his policies of not having made a positive impact, all without presenting any back up for that. You failed to address any of this;

As expected FR Conservatives are concentrating on their preferred deflection of discrediting OWS and totally ignoring the meat and potatoes of my post. To be specific NONE OF THEM have addressed the following:

So the gist of the matter is, the money-changers are glomming onto the profits needed by the ACTUAL job creators...businesses who hire people, build things, and provide value over and above simply having access to capital. Yeah, they deserve a reasonable Return On Investment, but nearly 1/3 of ALL corporate profits is so excessive that it hinders the ability of their customers to serve as engines of the economy. Usury, the practice of predatory lending universally condemned by all the world's great religious, philosophical, and moral traditions, has become the model for Wall Street.

For additional proof of this look here http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/nipa0328111_big.gif for a chart showing the proportion of profits attributed to the financial sector since just after WWII. You can see that during the most successful years in US history the rate hovered between 10%-20%. You can see that the remarkable success of the economy during the Clinton Administration coincided with a steady DECREASE in the share of all profits claimed by the financial sector. You can even see that most recessionary periods -- 1949, 1953, 1957, 1960, 1969, 1973, 1980, 1990, 2001 -- ALL coincide pretty closely with preceding upswings in percentage of total profit claimed by the financial sector. The 1981 and 2007 recessions are exceptions, but it's worth noting that in both of these periods the economy was already weak from a prior recession and the percentage of profits held by the financial sector were still well above the 10%-20% rate which held sway when the US economy was historically strongest.

By now we all recognize your snide approach and condescending put downs signal situations in which you have no answer. Thanks for playing.

Jody, Iowa: This movement is real and it is spreading to over 75 cities nationwide.

Diane Sawyer of ABC says 250 cities, but hey, why quibble over details.

It's also gone to a 1000 countries, at least according to Diane.

Spreading indeed. And yet, they have no agenda. At least the SEIU and the Teamsters are helping them out with logistics, food, sanitation, shelter. Someone has to pay for all this, right?

Smiff, if you don't want to "quibble" over a number, then why do it? Who paid for the sanitation, food, bus rides for the TPers? Answer: Koch Brothers, Dick Armey's PAC. To use your own words, "Someone had to pay for all this, right?"

If some are so busy quibbling over the details, it must mean that the larger point is a valid one.

Hey Jody, Iowa, Maybe you should email Obama to keep his distance from the "Occupy" protest.

Those protesters despise the Wall Street "fat cats." Obama, on the other hand, takes lots of money from them. ( you know, while he is demonizing "millionaires and billionaires"). LOL

Leona, President Obama would be welcomed at the OWS protests by the majority of those participating (minus the TPers who are there); after all, Obama "gets" what they are saying and why--something conservatives like you fail to comprehend. Their message is a reflection of Obama's message during the 2007-08 campaign. The place he would not be welcome is the corporate backed Tea Party protests.

Has anyone checked out occupywallstreet.orb? People are not to happy with Obama, Democrats or the Republicans. Just a few comments.

Obama hired a great deal of wall st executives that were working for firms that created this mess. Check out a documentary titled, Inside Job. And yes, it’s littered with interviews by top officials, and whistle blowers (people who had a front row seat).

DO NOT let any union or organization on that top list have any voice in the movement. They are greedy and looking for promotion of their agenda by joining. They have motives that are not aligned with OWS

Do NOT allow these liberal groups to infiltrate your movement. Always remember that unions and groups like MoveOn.org are little more than extensions of the Democratic Party, and even if their individual members might support your actual principles, as organizations they will do their best to fit you into their idea of a pro-Obama liberal protest.

This cannot be stressed enough: Do NOT become the Liberal Tea Party! If Obama supports you, continue to criticize his failures to help the middle class. And, conversely, if Republicans somehow support you, do not let up your push against them. Letting down your guard for even a moment will allow this whole movement to fall back into the rut of tit-for-tat two-party politics. Organizations and institutions, no matter their affiliation, are not your friends, as they will all drag you back into the world that you are trying to avoid. Accept the help of their individual members, but reject the help of the organizations themselves.

We cannot afford to lose this fight.

I never said the corporate elite is only made up of Republicans, did I? I just stated how the Tea Party is funded. Is it not a fact that it is funded by extremist right wing corporations like Koch Industries, just to name one?

One thing is very clear, and that is that unions represent WORKERS (even if some are corrupt), but corporations DO NOT REPRESENT WORKERS.

One thing is very clear, and that is that unions represent WORKERS (even if some are corrupt), but corporations DO NOT REPRESENT WORKERS.

Thank You Thetotas,

Unions are not corrupt, there are some corrupt individuals that may be in a position to take some advantage, but that can be found in any large organization and does not render the whole group as corrupt. In any event those union leaders can be called out, and voted out if the membership does not feel they are honest, all it takes is to shake off the apathy and have the will and the guts to speak up and stand up to what you believe is wrong.

I certainly do NOT condone those statements. Perry has said he disagrees with them.

The flaw in your position- equating this to the Obama/Rev.Wright situation- is this:

This is not Perry's pastor. He did not spend 20 years, and raise his children, listening to hate filled screed masquerading as sermons.

Now do you get it?

No, it's a prime political backer for Perry, someone who spoke up to cement RP's reputation with the Evangelical Right.

This is not Perry's pastor. He did not spend 20 years, and raise his children, listening to hate filled screed masquerading as sermons.

...and you have listened to every sermon, yes?

Thank you Reverend Jeffrees for your "cult" comments on Mr Romney. You have done the Democratic Party a great favor and we thank you.

With GOP speakers like the Right Reverend Jeffrees slamming their front runners, will they have anyone left standing when this campaign is over?

Obama in 2012.

DaNoid. Good point, where are the demands that Perry denounce Jeffress? Where is the 24/7 video loop showing Jeffress's comments, Fisher's comments. Sure they've been briefly shown on TV but not like Rev Wright's cherry-picked sermon. Rachel Maddow made a similar point about the beltway media not making outraged noises last night.

When John McCain was running in 2008, he first accepted the endorsement of Reverend Hagge. Hagge was not McCain's pastor but after hearing the words of Hagge as he stood on the stage with him, after being told of other outrageous comments made by Hagge, John McCain denounced the pastor and said, thanks but no thanks to the endorsement. McCain had the courage to do it.

Where is the courage of the current crop of republican candidates who want to be Commander in Chieft to denounce those who preach hate? Any President of the United States must be willing to have the courage to call prejudicial comments whether it is demeaning to other religions or against gays in the military. Failure to do so means they are not worthy of the job. With the exception of Jon Huntsman and Buddy Roemer who have denounced such speech as that of Jeffress, there seems to be a lack of courage among these candidates.

As I recall, the "outrageous" comment was the use of Obama's middle name.

Not Fubar- the other one.

Gee, you weren't paying attention if you think that was the only 'outrageous' comment. But then again he wasn't your guy, so any of the others suited your mindset.....and still do.

No Jo the correct term for the Obama administration is SNAFU.

NJNB: The flaw in your position- equating this to the Obama/Rev.Wright situation...

Obama distanced himself from Wright just as McCain distanced himself from Hagge and now Perry has distanced himself from Jeffress.

Now do YOU get it?

Something that MIGHT come up in tonight's debate...(and a somewhat "surprising" timing of the release, no?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Newly obtained White House records provide fresh details on how senior Obama administration officials used Mitt Romney’s landmark health-care law in Massachusetts as a model for the new federal law, including recruiting some of Romney’s own health care advisers and experts to help craft the act now derided by Republicans as “Obamacare.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44854320/ns/politics-decision_2012/#.TpRd53HleUe

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It is the Gateway to the truly unbelievable (and by that I mean that no one really believes) claim by Gov. Romney, that someone who was elected Governor as a moderate and governed as a LIBERAL, somehow morphed into a solid mainstream conservative in 5 years.

From "I support a woman's right to choose" to "I believe that Roe v Wade should be overturned."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXKHBjOkmfQ

http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Mitt_Romney_Abortion.htm

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What could possibly make a man in his 50's do a 180 on what is essentially a "gut" issue? It's just hard to believe.

Reading his "positions" at the website, "on the issues.com" you would think there were two different Mitt Romneys with two entirely different sets of beliefs. This is Mitt's Achilles Heel. If he could change his positions so radically one time, what would stop him from doing it again?

It isn't that he seems to be a Flip-flopper, it's seems more like that he is an OPPORTUNIST without any real convictions. That perception will be hard to overcome and is the reason why his support remains in the 20's in the polls. It is also why NONE of the supporters abandoning Perry like he's on FIRE have gone to Mitt and why a guy no one takes seriously and admits he's essentially on a book tour is nipping at his heels...

Romney is called a flip flopper, RHINO. I like your adjective: opportunist. I do believe he will in the end be the GOP candidate. Among the faithful primary voters, he has a ceiling in the polls under 30%. So where are the fired up tea party folks going to land behind a candidate?

I see No Joe missed the point entirely but then that's not unusual. It wasn't the fact that Hagge used President Obama's middle name, it was his tone, distain and contempt while doing so that made it outrageous. There's nothing wrong with Hussein as a middle name, it is the way in which it is used that crosses the line. Big difference No Joe, you should learn to tell the difference. Note the rest of my words "after being told of other outrageous comments".....

You make some great points dangerfield.

True, let them pick at each others bones. This was Perry's nomination to win and he is actually blowing it, but time will tell...

“Obama is, in short, a political loner who prefers policy over the people who make politics in this country work... This, of course, implies that the politics in this country works and that there are people doing something about it. One party publicly states that its goal is to see the President defeated, no matter the cost to the country, and the President's own party's members of Congress seem to care more about their own re-election than the country's welfare. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with any of them, either.

sbv, well said. The author of that article fails to see beyond the surface and it is definitely written with a bias--the truth is President Obama does not believe that those in Congress should be treated as royalty but rather as co-workers in the broader business of governing for the people. I say, bravo, President Obama. This does not mean that he has no respect for members of Congress nor does it mean that he does not listen to their concerns or speak with them. It simply means he believes all elected officials' job is to govern for the good of the country without all the pandering, backside kissing, and overall flattery too many in Congress have grown accustomed to. Their feelings get hurt because President Obama didn't call them personally or because he issues a jobs plan without their consent. It is silly, petty nonsense.

Chris Matthews commented that FDR regularly played cards with members of Congress and that President Obama has not done something similar. Did Chris forget the efforts of the new Obama administration to hold a weekly WH event for members of congress to meet with him and WH staff; that the GOP mostly declined and that they whined about the cost? What about the Super Bowl parties where once again, the GOP decline to attend. In this era of extreme partisan politics, FDR could not have played cards with anyone other than his own staff.

When I was in my 30's, the GOP was saying that social security would not be there for me when I was ready to retire--well, I retired and receive my monthy social security benefit. What many people fail to realize is that since the Social Security Trust was established, the far right of the GOP has been against it, wanted to end it, and slowly moved to wanting to privatize it. Now that far right of the GOP has become the mainstream GOP. Romney and others may say they do not want to end it but it would be wise to remember that Perry has voiced the truth about the intentions of the GOP--the others are using fork-tongued speak.

Exactly, Jody,...while the Republicans are currently attempting to re-grow a set of 'nads,...they haven't QUITE had the courage to come right out and discuss REPEAL of SS, they are CLEAR in their desire to do so. Right after they disassemble Obamacare.

Why let the government do something successfully; when corporations are standing by to rape and pillage it at twice the cost? See Blackwater,...

Clara, great additional points, too!

Good morning Steeler Fan! Hope you all show the President better hospitality than ya'll showed my Titans! :o)

Should also have mentioned that tonight is the home opener for the Penguins. Pat from Boston, IR and Grimey---watch out----the Penguins are going to be a force to be reckoned with!

Hey Nash---sorry about that. I promise you----we'll treat the President right.

Steeler Fan...yeah, if they have Malkin and Crosby back, that is going to be a tough team to beat. Just hoping Ovechkin and my Capitals are up to the task!! :-)

Hi Grimey---word around town is that Malkin had an awesome off-season of rehab (apparently he'd never really worked out before but took it seriously this time) and Crosby has been skating with the team and working out. Not yet cleared for contact but has been symptom free for 4 weeks---longest stretch since January. So watch out! I think we can all agree to hate Philadelphia!

You guys seem to have left out another good Team. We do have a pretty good one here in Detroit, Hmm well actually a few of them! If you want to go to a game you can meet at my house, you can all leave separately and see who makes it to Joe Louis Arena alive!

Jolly----your Lions were impressive last night (sorry, Feisty). And I'd love another Stanley Cup rematch with my Penguins and your Red Wings---without the octopus, of course.

Wiser with Age. Nice post.

lmao...... if you pepper spray someone in Down town Detroit you best be wearing a Kevlar vest and be able to run pretty fast! The only good thing is that the indigenous population can't shoot for shyt so ducking and weaving is the way to go!

The only good thing is that the indigenous population can't shoot for shyt so ducking and weaving is the way to go!

Where's bag boy?

The self-proclaimed Judge & Jury on all things racist?

*crickets*

LMAO....... I knew you would pick that up. And what would you call the people who live in an certain area. To be honest if I was talking about Central Pennsylvania the Indigenous population would be Amish people. You would have an issue with that! Indigenous people abound everywhere, even in Chicago!

I knew you would pick that up.

Why wouldn't I?

It's a pattern with you & your secret code words...

One of these days you're going to slip up and call them n***ers - it's not TOO obvious how you feel!

Please, by all means continue on with your racist bull@!$%#.... let everyone see the real JOS - not the imaginary soldier you play on FR... ;o)

Jody, Iowa

Occupy Wall Street.

There were protests in Des Moines and Iowa City, Iowa over the weekend. One is planned for the Quad Cities. This is the fourth week of the movement. Just as happened with the Tea Party, their goals will become clear and more defined. What the media and many pundits seem to overlook is that Occupy Wall Street is a combination of many long-simmering frustrations of the "silent majority". Perhaps we should thank the Tea Party/GOP movement for opening the eyes of everyone else who now see the real conservative agenda.

Let's not negate had it not been for our President's ability to organize the Tea Party would have never grown as rapibly. The tea party was“Alinskyed".

The growth of the “Tea Party” movement has seen Alinky morph from a bogeyman to a possible inspiration to conservative activists. In April, Brendan Steinhauser of FreedomWorks, the conservative group that has provided guidance to many “Tea Party” organizers and town hall rowdies, told TWI that the group was “applying Saul Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’” in its approach to anti-tax “Tea Parties. ”

Jody, Iowa

Here is the link to prove the tea party was“Alinskyed".

http://washingtonindependent.com/54554/conservatives-find-town-hall-strategy-in-leftist-text

ROFWL,

If you flip over to FOX NOISE they're screaming about the OWS using mob tactics for transformation since they will go protest at Koch brothers, Murdoch, and Jamie Diamond houses.

fox is off mark there will be no violence

Beverly, good points. That's funny, the TP was "Alinskyed". I used to watch FOX once in a while but now find that more than 10 minutes gives me indigestion.

Monetfan, Whether Herman Cain gets the GOP nomination or not, he will become an integral part of the 2012 GOP administration. Herman Cain is a success story. He is smart, likable and has the most common sense that's come from a politician ever ( that's because he's a business man and lives in the REAL world) . The GOP will envelope him because he has proven that he can "fix" things.

Meanwhile, the country has 3 years of waiting for Obama to "fix" anything. Heck, they even wanted to take back his Nobel Peace Prize. What did they give that to him for ? I FORGOT.

Robert-529549: "The republicans have done nothing in their entire history except create war and steal from the poor and middle class and give all our wealth to the rich."

Too bad ( for your argument) that Obama has us involved in 2-3 wars and.....

too bad Obama's sinking billions in tax dollars into "green" companies because people like Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law and Al Gore are getting RICH ! ( I mean, given that you liberals hate the "RICH" so much!)

FeO2Dreams, If what you're saying is true, why do you think Obama is in bed with Wall Street then ??

Goldman Sachs gave 3/4 of all their donations to Obama in '08. An inconvenient truth, don't you think?

Leona,

You do "get" that quite a few of us WSOs and supporters have absolutely no qualms expressing our dissatisfaction with the current POTUS, right?

This is not a party thing.

YouJustSaidWhat: "You do "get" that quite a few of us WSOs and supporters have absolutely no qualms expressing our dissatisfaction with the current POTUS, right?"

Then protest the White House and their policies. Why aren't you FIRST protesting the government in D.C. telling this administration that they haven't been working "for the people"......and stop protesting the Wall Street bankers since they got a BAIL OUT from Obama and they fill his campaign coffers. It's "business as usual."

Who says I'm not?

He has a fondness for Pittsburgh, Gingerbread Mamma---has visited here many times, had the G-8 here and we also hosted one of the White House roundtables on entrepreneurship this past spring; I was honored to attend. We have a story to tell about re-creating a city after the loss of so many manufacturing jobs.

Good one, cowboy!

(cowboy) I wish we had video camera's recording the look on all the conservatives faces in the polling booth when they have to choose between a black man or a mormon.

* * *

Cowboy, that sounds like something that would have been said 100 years ago. BTW, it is MORE than a little bit out of date, and tinged with racist undertones.

However, on behalf of conservatives everywhere, we are quite proud of Herman Cain and Mitt Romney. We would have no problem whatsoever voting for either of them vs. BHO. The narrowness and bigoted perspective, these days, seems to be on the Left.

Greg Parker

Pointing out PERCEIVED bigotry is not racist behavior. Sorry, it just isn't. Please review the definition of the word.

And if you want to put your head in the sand over some of the really BLATANT racist stuff directed at the sitting President,...feel free. But please thicken up your delicate sensibilities to at minimum include SOME reality, okay? Thanks!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/02/national/main20086724.shtml

Clara,

Read Cowboy's post above. He seems to believe White Republicans would not vote for Black Candidate Cain (racism) and would not vote for Mormon Candidate Romney (bigotry).

He was called on it. BS.

Greg Parker, cowboy is pointing out the truth. You have evangelicals calling Mormonism (to name one religion) a cult and a segment of that same party that denigrates minorities or have you forgotten the TP anti-Obama racist signs. It isn't racist to point out the simple truth. Cowboy was not saying that every conservative has those attitudes, he was simply pointing out that many in the evangelical and other far right segments of the GOP, do have a problem.

Greg

It would seem your OWN bias is making a presumption about his comment. He merely says Conservatives - YOU are the one presuming they are White.

Things aren't always as they appear. But EVERY individual filters words through their own lense. You have done exactly that in this particular case.

He seems to believe White Republicans would not vote for Black Candidate Cain (racism) and would not vote for Mormon Candidate Romney (bigotry).

Sorry, but I think it's true. The racism displayed by white Republicans after President Obama was elected was quite blatant. I'm not saying all Republicans are racist, but you can't tell me that wasn't apparent in the birther movement and in right-wing comments about Michelle. In Maine, in fact, a Republican town councilor got in trouble for circulating an email comparing Michelle to a gorilla. She apologized, but said she really hadn't seen anything wrong with it.

It isn't Democrats who are calling Mormonism un-Christian. That's coming from right wing Evangelicals.

Clara and Amy,

There will always be 2% on the fringe who say things. However, what a given minister says, in this case about Mormonism, does not speak for the other 98% of Republicans. Also, there is this myth on the Left that Blacks must vote Democrat and that Cain is a traitor to run as a Republican. I have seen that one several times. Cowboy may speak for 2% of Republicans who will not vote for Cain. Also, the gorilla comments from Maine were over the top, but here again, we have "one mouthpiece" and not the views of the larger party.

If anything, this primary season, more so than any other, will show the world how broad and inclusive Republicans are as a party.

The islam flag or the american flag da don know.

Mr. Cain came to the Republican'tea party from where? Oh? Running a Corporation? I'll bet he just can not wait to get a grip on the Unite States of America; INC.