I know very little about Mormons. Actually I know very little about religion as a whole. But it's my understanding that Mormons don't believe in Jesus Christ from the Bible. That they believe in another Jesus? Not sure.

What is the name of their religion? The Church of Jesus Christ - of Latter Day Saints? Seems to me all religions believe in something different.

That shouldn't be a problem folks.

Christians' history is wrought with hate, with death and destruction. Which is why I am not religious. I don't like to judge who is a Christian and who isn't.

It isn't up to me or anybody. Christians are a bunch of busy bodies is what I have always found.

Leave people's religion out of politics for G's sakes. It's very unChristian to constantly judge others.

There's a reason why we call a certain period in history The Dark Ages.

SlickRick has lots of friends:.....Merck Pharmaceuticals, Rock Solid, Jeffress and more that haven't even come to light yet.

This ought to be an interesting 'cage match' between two fanatics...

Let the PrayerPalooza begin...

Good thing I'm well stocked with *popcorn*... lol

Pat Boston MA.

That shouldn't be a problem folks

Except that the problem is suddenly Fox Noise wants to revive Rev. Wright.

RepubliCons are so desperate they beat the same old drum; Acorn, Rev Wright, Fast and furious, Solyander all this to slander the President.

Sick Sick

So the Tigers/Rangers series got Rain delayed twice on Saturday and Rained out on Sunday. (Even though it didn’t rain at game time.)

In Arlington.

Texas.

Where it hasn’t rained in what, 73 years?

Clearly this is President Obama’s fault.

Let the PrayerPalooza begin!

That's a good one....I wonder will Bachmann/Perry produce a Baby Jesus (plastic) as a measure of their devotion?

...I think a long-neck beer will be in order for the Palooza!

The religion flap is not helping Republicans in general. We have lots more important issues to get a grip on, rather than to discuss the "cult" status of Mormonism.

Elections are so much better when candidates talk about the issues.

"RepubliCons are so desperate they beat the same old drum; Acorn, Rev Wright, Fast and furious, Solyander [SP, Solyndra] all this to slander the President."

Slander....slander ?? No, the word of the day is CORRUPTION.

Beat the same old drum ?? Yep, same old stuff from the White House, Mr. Obama's Czars, Mr. Obama's special interest friends, and "Circus atmosphere" in the Democratic controlled Senate.

I see, let's demonize a whole industry to protect big oil. Gotta love righties.............

ldo

"RepubliCons are so desperate they beat the same old drum; Acorn, Rev Wright, Fast and furious, Solyander [SP, Solyndra] all this to slander the President."

Slander....slander ?? No, the word of the day is CORRUPTION.

Ummm, that would be Perry, Eric Cantor, Mitch McChinless, and John of Orange.

The kantor was singing before oil speculators he would make sure they could manipulate oil prices. Don't for Murdock and the Kochs

GOP = Party of diversity and tolerance!

Just ask Newt.

Mormonism is about 170 years old. Mainstream Christianity is about 2,000 years old. Beyond that I fail to see the differene that makes one belief system a "cult" and the other a bonifide religion.

I'm not a big fan of Romney as a prospective president. He is too changeable and vague in the ideals he espouses. But this question of his religion's validity as a "Christian faith" is one for wingnuts on the extremist fringe.

No, Jahmekan, the GOP has never claimed to be the party of divwersity and tolerance....that would be the Dems, you know the "big tent" and all of that crap. However, that tolerance and inclusion only extends to those who bow to the superior knowledge and intelligence of the great "progressive" minds of our times.... like those who have produced all of that irrefutable evidence that all religion is merely superstition.

What is Christian about calling another Christian a non-Christian cultist? Jeffress's words betray him. The 'holier than thou' bunch are anything but Christian, talk about a cult. They may number in the millions but that doesn't reduce the stench of their putrid interpretation of what a Christian is. Your Jesus told you not to judge so you would not be judged yourself, or weren't you listening when that passage was read. I am a christian by philosophy, I don't necessarily believe in God. I don't make a religion out of that though. Tolerance is required for this country to be successful and it is getting in shorter and shorter supply thanks to those who are saved and can no longer do any wrong.

Hey WCA - Rangers up 1 to 0 :}

Excited about this afternoon's game. It was nice for us to get some rain over the weekend. Arlington and parts west of Dallas got multiple inches of it over two days. My neck of the woods about 1/2 inch.

But it has rained twice now this week and more showers expected throughout the week. Unfortunately made the multicultural festival I attended in Downtown Dallas a bit dreary. Even forced the Occupy Dallas folks to run for their tents.

However, it seems like someone's prayers for rain were heard!

Was disappointed about the rain cancellation but...

"That's the way baseball go." - Ron Washington, Rangers manager

You're worried about Perry's supporters, and their views?

Why, because the Rev. wright, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, and Tony Rezco held mainstream views?

Try being consistent for a change.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed by some factions claiming to be "True Republicans".

I'm a Republican. I'm not thrilled with Romney, but I *know* I will not be voting for Barack Obama. I don't say that based on my political party. If Obama had done a bang-up job--or at least gave the impression he was capable of doing a bang-up job--I'd vote for him.

But back to Romney...what does a person's religion have to do with their qualifications? George W. Bush was an Episcopal...then defected to his wife's Methodist beliefs. Does anyone believe this made him a better president? A worse president? The man was incompetent...and he needed no help from God with that.

The "Religious Right" is our band of nuts, folks. They've twisted our once steadfast and unifying message of small government, low taxes and personal responsibility into a theological pretzel. I know many, many Republicans who don't give a hoot what color, race or religion a candidate has. They also don't give a hoot who others marry. These are, in my opinion, the true "Party of Lincoln" champions.

If we start designating the "right" person for the job as those who have an "acceptable" religion, then rest assured our luck would have it that the one person who could lead us out of this mess will be something else entirely.

And then God help us. ALL of us.

What defines Christianity? Who gets to make that determination?

If you say anybody can make their own determination, then of course Romney can call himself Christian. If you think words have meanings and we ought to pay attention to how we use words, then you get into more detail about what is meant by the word "Christian."

For the main denominations we know about - Catholics, Episcopalians, Baptists, Orthodox, Lutherans, Methodists, etc - there is a distinct meaning to the word. To be Christian is more than just believing Christ lived and having a belief system based on what he said and did. The big area of disagreement is the Trinity. All those "mainstream" Christian denominations share a common view of the Trinity. Mormons don't. That's why they all will recognize baptisms in one another's faith and practices, but none of them - not one - will recognize a Mormon baptism as a valid, Christian baptism.

Mormons don't have a trinitarian view. They have a view based on the notion of eternal progression. God was once human and is one of many Gods, if I understand what they believe, and likewise any human who proves himself worthy can progress to become a new God and to eventually reign over his own planet. Christians see that as heretical.

Now, whether or not its a worthwhile expenditure of time to discuss this in a political context... well, I'll leave that unanswered.

spider your blinders are on...go figure out where the "just ask Newt" came from and then look at my comment in context.

BTW: Mitt is not the "right" kind of Christian for the GOP party. It hurt him before and it will likely hurt him again. McCain wasn't the right guy for the GOP party. They hit him hard in SC about his "minority" child, when W was first running for POTUS. Go ahead and look it up.

There has been numerous claims that the GOP is diverse and that the left is just acting like the GOP is not diverse.

As far as I care, this is just silly theatrics and shows that religion has no business in politics at all. As far as the big tent goes, it is the strength and weakness of the Democratic party. You cannot please everyone all the time, so you will have bickering. That's where the GOP shines to a fault. The single minded approach to solving every problem might make people feel safe in their man made bubble, but it is not practical. So go ahead and vote for whomever you like, but I reserve my right to call them a dumb ass as I am sure you reserve the right to do the same.

Hey Yellowdog, Losing the Verlander game may really hurt us, hopefully a split today and come to Detroit for the next 3.

Texas looks good. I think whoever wins this, with the Phillies out, wins it all.

Love the afternoon games...we call 'em "Businessman Specials" here. Ernie Harwell coined that before I was born.

Know you guys needed some rain, the timing was just very unfortunate. It was 75 and sunny in Detroit all weekend. Cooling off later this week, though. Hopefully we get 'em all in!

Mormons have a REALLY hard time separating church from state. Look at Utah for a prime example! Utah decided what their residents will drink and on what days, what movies will be played in their theaters, what types of clubs can operate the list goes on!

That's the last thing this Nation needs! A Mormon who passes a bill requiring all booze, wine and beer above 3.2% alcohol to be sold in stores that close at 6 pm and on Sundays.

Oh and one more thing, Utah celebrated the 4th of July on the 5th of July because the 4th was on a Sunday. But, the 24th of July, the date when the Mormons settled in Utah, was celebrated all throughout the state and that was on a Sunday. So, religion is more important than freedom to the Mormons!

Religion is just another government ran program to try and control the people. This is why we are hearing so much about it this time around during the 2012 elections and debate.

The government knows the people are fed up with them, so now try and use the made up god and religious rules to tame the people.

If Religion wasn't a government ran program, then why are they getting tax breaks? A lot of those billions they rake in every year is funneled right back in support of certain candidates that are nutty religious, and its the you scratch my back, and I'll pad your pockets.

Religion is a sham, man created as another tool to try and control the people.

The richer the church and religion gets, the poorer the people become. Save your money and tax all these church and religions. They are a business seeking your dollars in exchange of some invisible man in the sky that will save you after you are dead.

Charlatans and thieves = Church, religion, and government.

It's time to wake up and smell all the bs you have been fed all these decades.

Save and keep your money in your own pockets, and make these people get a job and support their own sorry azzes for a change.

ldo

" the same old drum ?? Yep, same old stuff from the White House, Mr. Obama's Czars, Mr. Obama's special interest friends, and "Circus atmosphere" in the Democratic controlled Senate.

ldo

You are definitely have fallen off your merry-go-round. "Circus atmosphere" is right wing terminology.

Just shut up and go back and get back on your carousel!!! You are lost in liberal land.

For all those that say:

- A person's religion isn't important

- A person's religion isn't relevant in politics

- I've never really given religion that much thought really

- Why does everyone always bring up religion ... it doesn't effect me ...

We are at a war of ideas people. We are at a crossroads of cultural significance that few are willing to admit.

We are either going to fight for a secular society that values logic, reason, progress, and the principles founded within the enlightenment ....

.... Or, we are going to fight for a theocratic society that fears science, fights intelligence, and cares more about what a person doesn't believe in ... moreso than what they do.

Are we going to pray away our problems, or are we going to roll up our sleeves and get to work?

"When fascism comes to America, it will be cloaked in a flag and carrying a cross?"

Who cares about the religious beliefs of our politicians?

Oh yeah, our holier-than-thou voters.

As for Romney, at least he does not wear his religion on his sleeves.

We have way too many holy-rollers in the country. They are as dangerous as the Taliban. Actually more dangerous.

To GOPMUSTGO! When Utah became a state almost everyone living in Utah was a Latter-day Saint. Of course they will pass laws that the majority of the population want. To say that is still the case is ridiculous and to say that Romney would spend his time passing laws that ban alcohol, for example, is ludicrous. Why would he do that? For one thing, it has to pass Congress and neither of those 2 bodies of Congress would ever do such a thing. Your comments about the power the President has also show your ignorance. Romney would shoot himself in the foot, never get re elected, and basically ruin his political career if he did that type of nonsense. Besides, the Mormon church believes in letting the majority rule. That's the way it has always been.

Romney's religion should be irrelevant, the fact that he is a corporate whore who hates working class people is what people should despise him for, how do you think Mitt feels about the protesters soiling his sacred wall street.?

I am sick and tired of the wallstreeters, their hired congressional mouth pieces and the corporate press claiming the wall street protesters don't even know what they are protesting about , that's such horse$hit, anyone that say's they don't know why those people are protesting is either a damn liar or brain dead stupid.

I don't care what his religious beliefs are as long as he doesn't try to force them down my throat. My dislike for Romney has nothing to do with his beliefs it's his stand on issues I have a problem with.

That's right Cautiously Optimistic One... You tell em! Holy rollers are very dangerous.... they carry weapons with them all the time. They set their guns a blazin whenever something bad happens to the United States. They are a complete threat to aircraft, cities and human life. They band together to plot the take over of countries and serve only to disrupt everyone's lives.

You're right... the total annialation of the world as we know it ties together with holy rollers.

Idiot!

This is the evangelicals and the Moral Majority of the '80s and '90s taking over the Republican party, with the help of corporations. I would say that most Christians don't agree with the more extreme views of this group, but they are unwilling as mass to condone their acts. They won't correct a Christian brother. The corporations are using these folks by giving them the hope that they can make the US a Christian nation and in turn, allow the corporations the leeway to make more money by increased pollution, less safety and lower wages. The Christian right are selling their souls to the devil, so they can get their way. The question for the voters will be, do you vote for Obama who isn't, as President, getting the economy and jobs going or one of the looney tooned Republican who is more concerned over their religion and their corporate buddies, than jobs for you. Hilary, please run! BTW - my own personal conspiracy theory is that no Democratic President will not be able to start the hiring back up, I believe the corporations are holding the jobs back to make the President look incompetent. It is time for Americans to take America back.

Brianb-999431

The reason that USA religious right is more dangerous than Taliban is that the Christians are here.

Closing women health care facilities. Demoralizing gays and non-christians. Anti-muslim rhetoric which causes more hatred towards us and allies, and more death.

Cheering the 100K plus dead in Iraq.

Yes, the Christian Right in our country is pretty ugly.

This is the Ultimate example of why Religion has no place in Politics period.

Religion and Politics make the "strangest bedfellows" of ALL....

This is why the FF intentionally did not Create a CHURCH OF AMERICA!

200 plus years ago even, the Founding Fathers were not as stupid as the Politicians of today and, they had LESS Knowledge....go figure!

Lady Cat- just curious- which issues are giving you problems with Romney?

Mormonism is a controlling religion that is demeaning to women and likes to brainwash its youth. I would never vote for a mormon because if they have crazy rules in their church they must obey and are ruled by their elders, than who, ultimately, will a mormon president listen to? The last word will come down from the mormon hierarchy and will benefit the church first not the nation second. Also, I cannot believe any self respecting african american would have anything whatsoever to do with mormons.

I do not care if you worship a 1960’s model telephone, what worries me is if you pick up the receiver and start holding conversations with god on it.

Praying for reason, or wisdom, or guidance is a natural human trait in stressful moments.

Having conversations with a god who is directing you to complete an objective is quite another, and where this conversation with any politician should be discussed.

You can be the straight arrow for justice, and generosity, and a great person in general but if your god, or belief in god manipulates your political decisions in a country that has out right stated there will be separation of church and state, then you are not fit to serve as the leader. You may well sit as advisor to the leader but cannot be trusted to make clear headed decisions using common sense.

This country was founded by extremely conservative Christians who had escaped the tyranny of religious zealots in Europe. They were quite aware of the temptations to allow a one church state, and threw it off to compromise and create our republic establishing democracy as our goal.

If Romney wants to lead he had better be able to handle the heat of the questions fired at him now, and had better be able to explain his positions such as the use of finale nuclear strike and his take on god. That’s just one of the questions a sitting President must face 24/7, and if your beliefs or non beliefs will not allow you to defend the United States in Warfare than stay out of the office, that’s why every President who serves comes out with white hair on their temples, and a resolute face.

again, focusing on things that has zilch to do with governing, but about who is in power.... disgusting.

If republicans did not always hold their arms up to the heavens, it would not be so easy to dismember them!

Dr. Robert Jeffress. Doctor Robert Jeffress. What, a PhD in Theology? So, clergy recognize that they no longer have credibility in terms of factual matters, and figure they have to put Dr. in front of their name to make themselves sound reputable? How now Doctor Preacher/Pastor/Priest/Shepard/they're all the same anyway?

Personally, I don't think these "Dr. Preachers" have learned anything new since the colonial days, so why do they need a doctoral program to learn the same old stuff over and over again? It never changes, right? So why is a doctorate in theology necessary now when it wasn't necessary before?

Like I said above, I think it's because these clergy are losing credibility in the public eye and feel the need to "borrow" the credibility of doctors who are known to be well educated people with a world of facts behind them.

How do these fools think that sounds to Moderates? Keep chewing each other apart--CONS.

The only difference between Mormonism and Christianity is about 1800 years less of thievery, adultry, and child molestation.

Its the conservatives who are not moderate? Please, look at all the crap slung on this thread and you tell me that it is only the conservatives, lol.

Here's the problem. Romney states this rather obvious truth, "We should remember that decency and civility are values too." Well, NOT for the DOUCHEBAG PARTY, or the far left moo cows here. So the best thing Romney should do is match his critics in their disregard for civility. The DOUCHEBAG PARTY should be treated uncivilly, since they don't care to act like adults. And the left extremists who care not at all to think should be treated in the same disgusting way. Amp up the level of horror language, since the license was already provided by the vocal a-holes. Don't let them continue with their s**t talk. Give it right back!

I do blame the Douchebaggers more than the far left for this. Its because of the already religiously insensitive arguements they constantly make. And they think they AREN'T prejudiced? LOL

I think this whole thing is absurd. Jeffress does not speak for any of the candidates. He is an off-the-wall nut who should just be ignored. The media and the other candidates are giving this issue far more attention than it deserves. They are trying to show how enlightened they are by coming to Romney's defense. The truth is that Romney does not need the other candidates to defend his faith for him. They should all have just dismissed Jeffress for the fringe lunatic he is and been done with it.

Personally, I have absolutely no use for organized religion. I do believe in faith, but see religion as someones attempt to make money off my faith. Almost every religion in the world has it's hand out to those of that faith to try and get money from them. For example, the archdiocese of New York would be in the top of the Fortune 500 if it were a corporation but there are Catholics homeless and starving to death in NY while the Archbishop eats off fine china and drinks from crystal and golden goblets. I firmly believe in following ones faith, but you do not need to go to a building to pray or pay money in order to be a good christian, jew, muslim, etc. Faith is about how you view yourself, view others, and lead your life. Religion is someone else attempting to control you and tell you how to lead your life and what to think. Most religious dogma has no foundation what-so-ever in the bible or other religious texts. It comes from edicts handed down by men who claim to know what is best for you. The world would be a much better place if people would just ignore religious doctrine and simply follow the tenets of their faith.

Shartorius: Are you for real? Your post was downright moderate! Have you considered running for GOP nominee? Come on, how hard can it be?

All religions are bull manure. The system would not let me use the word I wanted to say.

It's all a crock driven by the media to dismember the Republicans.

There's simply no need. You guys dismember yourselves quite well on your own.

I'm an Independent and have as much disgust with Democrats on certain issues as I do with Republicans. But, my issues with the dems are on topics of policy. In other words, topics where debate and varying opinion is welcome and needed in order to create a healthy and thriving discourse.

My issue with the Repubs however, is that they live in their own non-reality.

There's no area for common discourse because there's no area to recede to their level that doesn't first involve surrendering rational thought. There's no platform to sink to without first surrendering your sanity. These people belong on a mountain top waiting for the rapture and practicing faith-healing .... not running a government!

We will not forfeit this great nation, built on the foundations of the enlightenment, to the dark-recesses of blind faith.

Mitch: Believe it or not there's actually a religion in Brownsville, TX that worships bull@!$%#.

JS: What you don't seem to realize is that the money you put into the offering tray pays the salary of the pastor and his staff; pays for missions that they are supporting throughout the world; pays for the food pantry that they have for homeless people and people who have little money; pays for the books that they give out to help people learn about their religion, pays for childcare centers for those who can't afford regular child care and need to work, etc. It doesn't just go into their pockets and held on to like Corporations hold on to their profits. The church's money goes for quite a few good things. I don't mind giving my church a couple of dollars each week...I know where my money goes. I'd rather give it to my church than to ANY corporation or CEO out there!! And, by the way, my pastor doesn't make a 6-digit salary by ANY means!

It is despicable how in this days, some Christians and atheist offend others people base on their religion. I'm a Christian and I don't see anything wrong with Mitt Romney or Huntsman , both Mormons and raise nice families an example for many others. Romney already show his character and his moral values so it is irrelevant to judge him base on the bad actions that made for some members of his church in the past. And whoever say that Mormons are not Christian they are ignorant and should do a little research before to speak. I don't agree with him in many issues but his religious belief don't disqualified him to be the next President.

What could reassure a citizen more than a leader who prays to invisible people and hears voices?

Is it Slick Rick or Sick Rick ????????????? I think Rick is a Clown with a corndog Kochead. Romney is the best of them all and his religion shouldn't be a campaign issue. I think the Perry camp set this crazy Pastor up. Rob Jeffress is a loose nut.

It is despicable how in this days, some Christians and atheist offend others people base on their religion.

Atheists don't offend people based on their faith. If we had our way, faith would be a non-factor. Just like it is in all other major secular democracies in the world. Religious Americans are why this issue is brought up. Religious Americans are who made religious belief a prerequisite for office. To say atheists are "bias" in regards to voting practices based on religion is ludicrous ... we've never even had a candidate in the modern era admit that they are not religious! Does that mean we don't vote? Of course not.

I'm an Independent and have as much disgust with Democrats on certain issues as I do with Republicans. But, my issues with the dems are on topics of policy. In other words, topics where debate and varying opinion is welcome and needed in order to create a healthy and thriving discourse.

My issue with the Repubs however, is that they live in their own non-reality.

There's no area for common discourse because there's no area to recede to their level that doesn't first involve surrendering rational thought. There's no platform to sink to without first surrendering your sanity. These people belong on a mountain top waiting for the rapture and practicing faith-healing .... not running a government!

We will not forfeit this great nation, built on the foundations of the enlightenment, to the dark-recesses of blind faith.

This... basically sums it all up

If Romney wins, maybe he'll take Michele Bachmann as a second wife.

Feisty

Glad to hear that your well stocked up on popcorn, but why do you let your med's run low???

Hey Ich

Good point, maybe Barney then can have 2 husbands ???Gross is as Gross does....Right??

As a middle-of-the-road (centrist) Democrat I certainly HOPE this latest demonstration in intolerance, bigotry and xenophobia will escalate into a major pissing match within the right wing. It will just accelerate the intolerant extremists in our midst into the realm of "the shunned" in our society (where they actually belong) and will move more and more disgusted Americans back to the center .... which is where 70% of us already dwell, coexist with our neighbors and find delight in our diversity.

So, Republican presidential candidates ...let the pissing match and fratricide proceed.

"Atheists don't offend people based on their faith."

Really? Just look at all the posts calling people with faith ignorant, deluded, weak minded, etc. That's certainly offensive. Denying that it happens is pretty offensive too.

The fact that it's true isn't.

Just look at all the problems religion has caused in this race and on this blog already.

And the argument can never be solved because it's just an argument of one fantasy over another. Like children arguing over who's the strongest comic-book hero.

"Atheists don't offend people based on their faith."

Really? Just look at all the posts calling people with faith ignorant, deluded, weak minded, etc. That's certainly offensive. Denying that it happens is pretty offensive too.

This is a strawman.

My post was within the context of voting ... and you know it.

Religious Americans are the ones who made faith a prerequisite for holding office. Now, after years of their own bigotry and bias, we see what this mentality has spawned. Christians attacking others not because they are non-Christians ... but because they are the wrong Christians.

As an atheist, I personally have nothing against Romney. Yes, I think his religious beliefs are nonsensical. Yes, I believe magic underwear are nonsensical. Yes, I believe magic, golden tablets are nonsensical. But, at the end of the day, I don't believe Romney to be a zealot. I don't believe his nonsensical underwear would affect his presidency.

Personally, if I HAD to vote in a Republican for president ... I would vote Huntsman. But, he's a Mormon. So, your critique of my "atheistic" bias is shown to be .... you guessed it ... nonsensical.

Ich, you are funny, no kidding. I see you have quite a few posts collapsed. Gotta have a sense of humor, people. What's up with that?

me4texas,

Yes, I'm for real. How about you?

And as for my being "moderate"...do you really think slapping a one-word label on a person to categorize all their beliefs and values really helps? Don't we have enough problems with our restrictive two-party-or-no-party system?

George Dubya blew it. I'm sorry if that chafes with your "Yellow Rose Of Texas" anthem, but I voted for the man...twice...and while I believe he's a good man he was a lousy president that set the country against our party and ushered in four years of irresponsible spending at the hands of a president who was "Anything But Bush".

I'm a true fiscal conservative. That means I believe this country spends WAY too much on pet programs, pork and laws that are at best unenforceable...and at worse unconstitutional. Gays can't marry? You've GOT to be kidding me. You're spending MY hard-earned dollars on this ridiculous fight? Nearly 40% of all HETEROSEXUAL marriages go down the can in the first year...and the religious right nut jobs besmirching my party are worried that homosexual marriages will blight the fine institution of holy matrimony? Are they freaking nuts?!

Time was when folks looked out for each other...not in on each other. Those days were far from perfect, but ultra-right and ultra-left thinking won't get us closer to that perfection.

The founding fathers went to great length to insure that people would have freedom of religion, but religion would be kept separate from the affairs of state. They were real smart, this thread proves how smart they were.

Saint Paul wrote, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

How tragic it is to see so many supposedly "Christian" politicians "saying all manner of evil falsely" against Jeffress simply because he is being faithful to the gospel of Jesus Christ regarding Mormonism.

If the Gospel of Jesus Christ were merely man's opinion about truth, it might be an innocent thing to corrupt it or revile it.

But the Gospel of Jesus Christ was delivered to mankind by the SON OF GOD, AND PAID FOR BY HIS BLOODY DEATH; to mock the gospel is to mock God Himself and to show oneself cold-hearted and indifferent to the death of Christ on the Cross, and by extension, to the suffering and death of ANY human being, your own death included, O fool.

What is most disturbing, though, is that the gospel was put to such a base usage, made merely fodder for a political campaign. What Jeffress HAS done that is offensive to the core of a clean conscience, is that HE HAS USED THE NAME OF CHRIST TO ELEVATE A HUMAN BEING AS WORTHY TO RULE THE WORLD.

It is to be expected that the anti-Christs in this forum would smear Jeffress with calumny because they hate the Christ that Jeffress says he serves. Indeed, they are those who murder Christ. It is not surprising that those who will murder Christ will also defame Him.

What is so TRAGIC about all of this is that, in their rush to placate the non-Christians in their lust for power, THESE OTHER POLITICIANS, mere human beings THAT ALSO PROFESS FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST,

ARE DEFAMING A MAN FOR REMAINING FAITHFUL TO THE GOSPEL MESSAGE

simply because they covet the office of the presidency.

They've all sold their souls to the devil in exchange for a mere "chance" to become the ruler of this world, who is already condemned (see the Gospel according to John).

"Poisonous language" is a bizarre way to refer to the teachings of Jesus Christ from someone who wants to be thought of as one of His followers. Jesus said that those who do not believe him will be damned. This is not "poisonous language." It is simply the loving truth, It is like saying that those who do not believe the "Bridge Out" sign will be killed.

If you hate that truth, it is not the truth that is at fault. It is you who are at fault.

You can't win an argument with God Almighty. You can't prove yourself more righteous than God. You can't prove yourself more holy than God. You can't prove yourself more powerful than God.

Those who believe the Gospel will inherit eternal life. Those who do not believe it will be damned. If they do not believe the gospel, they will have no means of believing in their own eternal safety after they are divested of their corporeal bodies, and the absence of such faith will leave them in a terrified state of mind.

This is the truth. It is not "poisonous language" to tell someone the truth. It is love to tell someone the truth, especially when telling him that truth is potentially fatally dangerous to the preacher who speaks it. If someone hates that truth, it is no sin of the person speaking it that the truth was spoken, nor will the One who died on the cross find fault with the preacher if the person who resents the "intrusion" of the gospel into his ears decides to kill the speaker of the gospel. We speak because Christ TOLD us to speak. Who do you think you ARE to tell us that YOU DON'T APPROVE OF THIS???

Jeffress' comments about Mormonism were the truth. It is base and vile for Jeffress to use the teachings of Christ to promote a vulgar politician, that is, to assist a man in seeking to become the ruler of this world, because the ruler of this world is already condemned (see the Gospel according to John). But Romney's comment was itself an instance of "poisonous language" because he is speaking "all manner of evil falsely" against Jeffress for the sake of Jeffress' faithfulness to the gospel of Jesus Christ, whom Romney, together with other Mormons, imagines to have re-invented to conform to the "different gospel" of a nineteenth-century fantasy that was clearly invented by irreligious men to justify polygamy under the cloak of "religious freedom."

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Let the damned condemn this statement. But let no one condemning this statement written by the Apostle Paul be called a "Christian."

Anyone who loves not the truth and yet calls himself a Christian,

speaks a lie.

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema." I Cor. 16:22

"anathema 1: a solemn curse. 2 : a person or thing accursed" -- The Mirriam Webster Dictionary

As for those of you who wave your Constitution in my face while trying to put your hand over my mouth in its name,

I don't worship your Constitution. I wordhip God, who trumps your piece of paper. And I have EVERY right to speak like this because you and yours have ALREADY denied me the freedom that is only named in your document, but not adhered to.

I don't get my authority to speak the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ from your peice of paper.

I get this authority from the living God.

The God whom you can neither kill nor outlaw.

You who hate Christ have already been defeated.

It is already finished.

You who claim Christ but follow Him not, following instead mere worldly leaders, looking to horses and princes for deliverance from evil,

you are deluded

and will be sadly disappointed

soon enough.

This shows how intolerant the GPO is even among it's own members. They can not tolerate this guy, that even when he is a bible thumper, he is not the same kind of bible thumper that they want.

Talk about a bunch of narrow minded bunch of bigotted as****s

What I do not understand is how a black man eded up among them...Does he think that they like him? How dellusional!!!!

Chad-

Sorry! I didn't read your post before the one I responded to. Didn't realize it was in the context of the elections process. Sorry to go off topic.

So he is a Mormon. It's not like he handles and dances around with poisonous snakes?

John 3078515 - Go back to your Gospel TV and get rid of the rhetoric your spreading. You are not getting any authority "from a living God". You are delusional to think we should read your rant and feel damned. God loves all his children - just I love all of mine. You never send your children to Hell, only to their room. Why not just put your advertisement to send cash for your blessing - Organized Religion - the demon.

Been There 406824 you tell John he needs to go back to his (T.V.) to his Gosple well buddy let me tell you this you need to watch some of these Preachers cause maybe you'll learn that there is a GOD and he'll come back one day.

Irene

Yes, there is a god, and he needs money ... stat!

You better get your checkbooks out and start making payments, less you be left behind when he "comes back."

You guys have been waiting for his return for a few thousand years .... the rest of us have been going about the business of building civilization. What do you think, another 100 years or so? Do you think you guys will be ready to join in with the wonder of life by then?

While you sit there fixed within a terrestrial gaze upon Earth, mankind's eyes are transfixed to the sky. Not at your heaven, but beyond it. The magic of reality and the majesty of the universe is far more awe-inspiring than your televangelists I'm afraid.

No - no TV evangelist, or organized religion crap for me. I know if I am a good person, help those who need it, and am not greedy - I don't have to worry about God, if he exists I have lived my life as a good person and will go to heaven. I will "save" myself, not some greedy TV Rolex wearing turd that wants my money for his blessings of a personal jet and a bunch of s*****.

Romney, Huntsman, Perry, Obama...all of them have one thing in common...

None of them owe us a speech on faith because their faith is none of our business.

Unless you desire to create a theocracy, religion should
not be a factor in determining if a candidate is qualified to be President.

Da Noid and Dennis..Seem to recall connies making it an issue: Labeling the pres a "muslim" or a member of a "radical Christian church." Obama explained his faith to the American people. Why shouldn't conservatives?

"None of them owe us a speech on faith because their faith is none of our business".

Try selling that concept to a conservative Da Noid!

Anyone..Correct me if I am wrong:

1. To remain in good standing with the LDS church..You are required tithe 10% of your gross income.

2. Why are Huntsman and Romney so secretive about their faith. After all the LDS church spends millions sending missionaries all over the world.

Torpedo, there is an old joke that goes,

"So a wide mouthed frog decided to explore and leave his pond and go to another pond. The wide mouthed frog comes up to a cow and says, "what do you feed your babies" and the cow says milk and the wide mouthed frog moves on.

Next the wide mouthed frog comes up to a snake. The frog says, "what do you feed your babies"...the snake says, "well wide mouthed frogs of course", to which, the wide mouthed frog closes his mouth and makes it as small as possible and says while running away, "no @!$%#""

You don't point out things that others might find objectionable. That is why Romney isn't announcing it to the world.

This is exactly why conventional religion is dangerous.

If anything, that pastor's comments ignite the issue of HIS religion, which appears to be narrow and intolerant, and not by any reasonable measure "Christian" according to the teachings of Jesus.

All too often, it is the religious fanatics who polarize people and start the fight.

And it isn't just Muslims. Look at Northern Ireland as just one more recent example of where religious intolerance has generated war and bloodshed.

History is tragically full of such examples.

Dennis, How are you today, hope you had a good week end.

I agree, one's religion should not matter when running for any public office, people need to remember the Constitution allows one to practice what ever religion they want.

That said, I as a fiscal conservative believe that the so called "social conservatives" have hurt the republican party more than helped them in a national election. The social issues that keep coming up (abortion, prayer in school, etc.,) have been settled and should be dropped from any political campaign. I see a lot of the MSM wants to keep this religion debate alive, and I find it deplorable, there is plenty of issues that can be discussed than religion.

I remember when JFK was nominated by the democrats it was said that he could not be elected because he was Catholic. It was always stated back in those days and before that a Catholic would be obligated to follow the teachings of the church and especially the Pope.

I am obviously not a Romney supporter, but he has addressed the issue in a well publicized speech that is available to anyone who reads more than they post...

_--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith."Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin."As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution – and of course, I would not do so as President. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law."As a young man, Lincoln described what he called America's 'political religion' – the commitment to defend the rule of law and the Constitution. When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States."There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs."Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.

Read more: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politics/14789305/detail.html#ixzz1aOkWjjcz

What difference does it make who someone prays to?

My question on a candidate: will you make the correct decisions that will help ALL Americans, are you capable of being fair and balanced in situations that affect the safety, prosperity and well being of all us.

Whether one prays in a particular way or not so much, is not important to me. Are you a person of good moral value. Are you reasonable, not petty and vindictive that will allow you to uphold the laws of the land to benefit if not all, then the majority.

Above all be not a hypocrite.

Torpedo - First, I am not sure what either of those two things have to do with one another. It is their money, they earned it, and they have the right to give it to whatever cause they want. Who cares if their religion requires it or not? Second, they aren't secretive about it. Romney gave a speech about his faith (which is a non-issue as far as I am concerned). Also, they have a website called mormon.org which explains their beliefs (just saw a commercial for it this morning). If you feel uninformed, why don't you take the initiative and go find out the information for yourself?

Yesterday, I saw Clooney's new movie, THE IDES OF MARCH. Clooney plays a presidential candidate who tells the crowd at one debate that he's not Christian, not Jewish, and not Muslim. Instead, his "religion" is a "piece of paper called the Constitution of the United States."

And his pledge as President is to support the Constitution -- and not any particular religion.

He concludes by saying, "If I'm not religious enough for you, don't vote for me."

Ironically, and sadly, this is considered a risky strategy.

Ironically, and sadly, this is considered a risky strategy.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Ana-

That's even beyond British understatement...

It's political suicide...

BTW-How did you like the movie?

sfcret.

I remember when JFK was nominated by the democrats it was said that he could not be elected because he was Catholic. It was always stated back in those days and before that a Catholic would be obligated to follow the teachings of the church and especially the Pope

sfcret,

Definitely, I would never vote for Romney due to his gobbling up companies and selling them aboard; plus I'm a liberal. However, I must agree with you so many people thought we would never have an American President.

Romney's religion should have nothing to do with it. Neither should his religion be mocked.

My God can kick your God's butt.

He just can't put 15 million people back to work, provide health care to those who can't afford it, or pay down the national debt. We are on our own, God why have you forsaken us!

If you want scary then Santorum's comments on Gays' in the military are it. Dude, that ship has sailed. Get over it. The fact that he keeps banging this drum makes me think he wrestling with some homosexual tendencies in his own mind. He shouldn't be out on the stump but talking to a psychiatrist about his own feelings of normal heterosexuality.

BTW Did anybody see the you tube of Occupy Atlanta when they stopped John Lewis from speaking? I thought I was watching Monty Pythons "Life of Brian". If this is the cause that will overtake the country I think we have a couple of centuries before their "facilitator" get their act together.

Anna Molly

I saw Ides of March yesterday too! Like I don't get enough politics all week....but I'll watch anything with George Clooney in it.

Red letter day, Dennis.

I voted you up. There is not one single thing I could add to your post.

There is hope for the world.

correction

sfcret.

The word African got cut off during editing. People thought we would never have an African American president.

Those that are against Romney will use whatever excuse they can to try to justify their position. Since it's common knowledge that Romney is LDS, the issue has been blown up bigger than life. People are making way too much out of his faith. His faith is not a determining factor in whether he's capable of performing the duties of President. Those same exact people that scream separation of church and state are making this an unnecessary issue. They are trying to tie the two together.

I wonder what the democrats would be saying if Romney were a democrat? I'll bet there wouldn't be this much hub-bub about it at all... in fact democrats would be justifying it all over the place. It would be the same as they did for Obama and his membership to a black liberation theology church. They downplayed it.

It doesn't really boil down to Romney's faith... what it boils down to is the democrats will use whatever they can to discredit a republican.

Brianb-999431

Those that are against Romney will use whatever excuse they can to try to justify their position. Since it's common knowledge that Romney is LDS, the issue has been blown up bigger than life. People are making way too much out of his faith. His faith is not a determining factor in whether he's capable of performing the duties of President. Those same exact people that scream separation of church and state are making this an unnecessary issue. They are trying to tie the two together.

I wonder what the democrats would be saying if Romney were a democrat? I'll bet there wouldn't be this much hub-bub about it at all... in fact democrats would be justifying it all over the place. It would be the same as they did for Obama and his membership to a black liberation theology church. They downplayed it.

It doesn't really boil down to Romney's faith... what it boils down to is the democrats will use whatever they can to discredit a republican.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

This isn't about democrats who don't have a horse in this race...so your ire is both misdirected and way, way, premature...

@ Amy -- ditto that.

@ dangerfield -- it was okay -- not at the level of MICHAEL CLAYTON, but still pretty good.

As I was drying my hands in the ladies' room afterwards, it suddenly occurred to me that what I really needed was a shower.

It was well directed and acted by all, and a gritty, dark story that makes you squirm.

Clooney's character reminded me most of Mitt Romney, and not in a good way.

Best performances by Philip Seymour Hoffman and Paul Giamatti. Ryan Gosling was also good.

By the way, this was NOT a hearthrob romantic performance by Clooney, as Amy no doubt found out, too, so girls beware.

BrianB: I wonder what the democrats would be saying if Romney were a democrat? IYeah, those Mormons. Can't trust them.

It would be a little hypocritical, seeing Harry Reid is also a Mormon.

I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle REALLY trusts Harry...and NOT because of his religion...

this was NOT a hearthrob romantic performance by Clooney

Yeah, but I corrected the plot in my imagination.

Philip Seymour Hoffman and Paul Giamatti. Ryan Gosling and Mira Sorvino, who made herself look unattractive, for the part of a New York Times reporter. Ouch!

Dangerfield said:

This isn't about democrats who don't have a horse in this race...so your ire is both misdirected and way, way, premature...

I disagree dangerfield. Every running reublican has been chided by the left on these boards... and in many instances completely ridiculed. Fact and fantasy are equals in the left's quest to put down any opposition to Obama. If the democrats have a horse in this race, they are getting a very early start in making it known how they will be carrying on if a republican wins the election.

There are no guarantees for Nov 2012... but seeing how the faith of one candidate creates such a stir, for no real reason, is troubling. I'm not a Romney supporter but the way the media and the left carrys on about it is rediculous.

In your effort to show the problems with an LDS president, you missed the two most important:

1) The Mormons (LDS) believe in a living prophet, seer and revelator. Their leader speaks and listens to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit on a daily basis (yes, the LDS believe these are three separate entities). Can an LDS president then disobey his prophet when the country is in opposition?

So.....they have their own Pope. We didn't worry about Kennedy. I'm not worried about Romney.

2) To be truly devout in the LDS faith you are required to promote the LDS church in every activity you do. How can a president or any political leader actually serve their country or their constituants when their belief in converting everyone else to Mormonism is foremost in everything they do?

To be a devout Christian, you are required to "go forth and make disciples of all men, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Yet we've survived with countless elected Christians in every office in the land.

Thank goodness there was none of that in the last election with the current President...That your argument holds true for both sides escapes most here...does it escape you too?

(Do you ever expect the opposition to SUPPORT the other side?)

And note that I am the one who posted Mitt's speech...I abhor the tactics of both political parties which are the same at their core.

The difference I see is that Democrats nominated Kennedy for President and somehow I just don't see the right wing of the republican tea party nominating Romney.

I don't think Romney's religion is a problem, the problem I see is that he is hiring a big bunch of Bush's advisers including his economic advisors who told Bush that tax breaks and wars goes together. If you were happy with the way that Bush left our country, vote Romney.

Obama/Biden 2012

Daryl- you are missing one GIANT piece to the puzzle. Each and every member has AGENCY to do what they want to do. This is promoted everywhere in the Church, and Romney will execise that agency to do the work of POTUS without having to worry about the Church or the obligations to it.

The LDS issue is a big NON-issue.

Daryl- you are missing one GIANT piece to the puzzle. Each and every member has AGENCY to do what they want to do. This is promoted everywhere in the Church, and Romney will execise that agency to do the work of POTUS without having to worry about the Church or the obligations to it.

The LDS issue is a big NON-issue.

This is also why folks like Mr. Reed, Mr Huntsman, and Mr Romney all are all on different ends of the spectrum politically. I consider myself a republican, but I voted for Mr Obama and have a hard time with Mr Romney's inconsistencies. The candidates religion has at best a rough correlation with their stances and should not be at all a litmus test.

To Dennis, and to all posters: Too many politicians, SCOTUS (past and present), and VOTERS fail to live up to that one important clause in Article VI, Section 3 of the US Constitution (note the parts I highlighted):

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

"executive and judicial Officers" includes the office of the president.

Yeah, Torp. Let's give the Mormans a chance to 'splain their cult to an awaiting world. Then Perry etal could 'splain how the whole set of Protestant faiths are cults that broke from the Catholic church. Then maybe someone else could 'splain how Catholic and Islam faiths are break away cults from the Jews. I guess Lieberman could tell us how his faith got started.

Any Hindus or Buddists out there?

TorpedoYou, since you’ve asked, here are the corrections.

Some of the last verses of the entire Old Testament provides the commandment to pay tithing. As followers of the Bible, LDS members are encouraged to pay tithing, otherwise they lose out on the blessings promised. Below is the scripture reference.

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. (Malachi 3:8-10)

As for paying for missionaries, that cost is covered by the missionary, not the church.

Anyone..Correct me if I am wrong:
1. To remain in good standing with the LDS church..You are required tithe 10% of your gross income.

The key phrase is "in good standing". There are many people who do not pay their tithes that are still listed on the membership rolls, there are even people who have joined other churches or declared they are atheists that are still listed as members! Only those committing what the church consider to be "grave sins" like having gay relationships are ever expelled from membership.

It's their way of inflating their membership counts and pretending to be bigger and more powerful than they really are. Come to think of it, most churches do that too, and for the same reason.

2. Why are Huntsman and Romney so secretive about their faith. After all the LDS church spends millions sending missionaries all over the world.

Not being secretive, they just consider it to be irrelevant. They aren't running for the position of Pope or Prophet or Reverend, they are running for the Presidency of a completely secular Government.

Brianb, the attack on Romney's religion was done a Rick Perry supporter not a democrat, libertarian or any other non-republican party. It's a right-wing descrediting not the lefties. Get a grip, dude.

I just wish people would quit writing things about something they know nothing about. For instance, demeaning to women? I am way more respected as a women in the church than outside of it. Required to promote our faith? That is a strong word. Why doesn't anyone mention that we follow the laws of the land, that we try to be honest in all our dealings. We teach that everyone has a right to their own beliefs. All we ask is for the same consideration.

and Mira Sorvino, who made herself look unattractive, for the part of a New York Times reporter. Ouch!

True, but it was actually Marisa Tomei. She made me think of Judith Miller, interestingly enough.

And Evan Rachel Wood. Shouldn't leave her out. Without her the movie is nothing.

bmvega- You are really misinformed. Catholics believe repentence (ever done a rosary?) and works (know what happens to infants who die without baptism?) are necessary.

Most mainline Christian faiths believe that something more than merely saying, "Lord, Lord!" is necessary to obtain salvation. Southern Baptists are unique in the belief that Ted Bundy is saved because he confessed Christ as his Savior (during, not after, his killing spree).

What the good pastor is saying is, "You are not Christian like me!" I wonder if Perry would be as supportive if the good pastor expressed his opinion on Catholics belonging to the whore of Babylon?

...but doesn't calling it a "cult" have a negative connotation? Are you not questioning its legitimacy by calling it a "cult"?

There are those (read: about 16% of Americans) who would label any version of religious superstition "cultish". Personally, I think The Desert 3 are all massive cults, and unlike Mormonism, have spawned countless wars and crusades.

But you are correct: NONE of this should matter when choosing a President, or anyone for a U.S. government position. That includes voting for a presidential candidate who, say, is agnostic and/or an atheist, which we already have (long ago) but probably never will again.

Ah, the irony.

All religions are cults.

Amen!

100% correct on that Salty!!

Quite the opposite, We (Mormons) believe that salvation comes through Christ alone and by his grace and ONLY through him can someone achieve salvtion. We DO place a large emphasis on works but that is because we consider there to be no real distinction between faith and works, following what was said in Hebrews ( I don't have a bible handy so I'm unsure the verse) that faith without works is dead and works without faith are empty.

Seriously if you want to know exactly what we believe google "LDS articles of faith".

I have to agree that I would not necessarily vote or not vote for a person based solely on their religion. There are some candidates who stress their faith, yet from what I see, are miserable human beings.

However, as what was written already, Mormonism is not considered Christian as the Book of Mormon contains Biblical contradictions. One REALLY big no-no observed by Mormons is equating the Book of Mormon to Holy Scripture. I have read portions of the Book of Mormon. I have read about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I have seen the Mormon temple in Washington, D.C. From a U.S. historical perspective, Mormonism is interesting, dramatic, pathetic, and even funny.

Anybody can be a moral and "good" person...I think the pastor was just distinguishing between Christianity and those religions that start with the Bible and go off into a whole other belief system. There are others: Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unitarians...Again, not necessarily the only reason to vote or not vote for a perspective presidential candidate.

Just for the record, I am follower and lover of Christ, a sinner, a registered Democrat, do NOT feel it is necessary to persecute homosexuals, and am reluctantly divorced. (sigh) I guess Rick Perry would not expect my support!

If you can find a copy of the book "Kingdom of the Cults," it is worth reading the section on Mormonism.

L in Princeton, I appreciate that you have made an effort to study some of the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). However, I have to take issue with your claim that the reason we can't be considered "Christian" is because of our belief in the Book of Mormon. If you look up the definition of Christian, you get this: "A person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings." That is precisely what the LDS faith has taught its believers since its beginnings. That is why the correct name of our religion includes the name of Christ as He is our focus, from beginning to end and all things are done in His name.

We also do equate the Book of Mormon to holy scripture as it IS holy scripture, defined in the opening pages as "Another Testament of Christ". In the New Testament, John 5:31-32, (among other scriptures) Christ tells us that he cannot witness of himself, but others must. That is what the Book of Mormon is, another witness of Christ, who is the center of our religion.

To those who would truly want to understand the nature of the LDS faith, visit www.mormon.org or Google LDS Articles of Faith.

Mormon is a cult.Understand the difinition of a cult and stop being stupid.Mormon again is a cult people.No matter how decent or moral a person is if they are in a cult they can not lead a nation like America.

So, what sir is your definition of a cult?

By definition all religions are cults. The preacher was showing his education did not include reading a dictionary.

Fair enough, for those who are wondering.

I think he was refering to the legal definition of a cult which has something to do with no redeeming values etc.

Who's education includes reading a dictionary?

What the pastor meant was that Mormons believe things that Christians believe to be heresy. Such as the belief in more than one God, polytheism (Father, Son, Holy Spirit without the doctrine of the Trinity). That's how Christians define a "Christian Cult". I try not to use such a loaded word, but there are many areas of theology and doctrine - fundamental areas - where Christians and Mormons disagree.

In this, Mormons would not disagree. Their religion is based on the fact that the other Christian denominations had messed up and God chose to reveal the full truth to Joseph Smith. Mormons do not see themselves as another Christian denomination, but as the one true Church. The Book of Mormon is the "Restoration of the Gospel". If the Christians had been so lost as to need a restoration can the two religions really be called the same? A Mormon claiming to be Christian is essentially the same as a Christian claiming to be a Jew (religious, not ethnic). There are too many differences in theology.

The thing is that "cult" has been turned into a dirty word...and Jeffress knows this. You say "cult" in the United States in 2011 and here's what most people think:

Branch Davidians ("Is it hot in here or is it just me?")

Heaven's Gate ("I'm half the man I used to be!")

People's Temple ("Mmm, this Kool-Aid sure is tasty, Rev. Jones!")

The Manson Family ("When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide!")

Jeffress and those of his ilk have chosen their words carefully...call LDS a cult and get people to reject it as something secretly evil. That's his game plan.

Dear Breezy, while I thank you for the appreciation, I am amused with you taking issue with me. I think you have given the proof that condemns Mormonism as a cult: ..."the Book of Mormon...IS holy scripture." Christians DO NOT accept the Book of Mormon as holy or scripture. Please, please, please do not insult my intelligence with your "definition" of a Christian. Even the enemy acknowledges Jesus Christ. There are many atheists who were baptised as infants. Muslims believe in the teachings of Christ. I have engaged in enough discussions with the Moronic Marauding Missionaries that travel the US on behalf of the Mormon church. What you have written I have heard and read before. Your cult is just a cult. Just as other cults; you believe what you want that is appealing from Christianity...then you add to it.

L -

So, I'm a Christian and I agree that Mormonism and Christianity are different. However, I think it is possible to debate the theology while still remaining civil. Breezy's post was certainly civil, I think you can show the same civility - God knows the internet needs it.

While I don't know anything about you, neither do you know anything about me. I don't know why you feel because I disagree with Breezy, his/her post is civil and mine is not. I guess it is the nature of the topic...believe what you will.

It was this: "Moronic Marauding Missionaries" that caught my attention. It's true I don't know you, but I don't have to know you to know that that is an insult. By all means disagree with Breezy but I would just suggest that you stick to arguing the theology and not get into name calling.

You must read a L I T T L E bit more about the researched and archived info on the "creation" of Mormonism. Moroni was the name chosen by Joseph to refer to his angel. Every Mormon must serve in their version of a missions field; hence the focus on "good works" gaining them entrance into their version of heaven. They are very convicted and driven...they go everywhere under any conditions.

But, I forgive you!

Let me make this perfectly clear. I don't disagree with what you are saying - just your methods. I have done nothing that requires your forgiveness. But if what I posted injured your pride - I am sorry for that. Perhaps you have too much.

Oh my yes! I do struggle with my pride...and forgiveness. These are two of many areas I need prayer. (sigh) Thank you for the apology, though.

I really don't care what Romney is, he could believe in the church of holy banana's

Hell little socialist Barry obama didn't get a church till 1 year in office in DC, and to tell you the truth I still don't know what the hell obama is. I do know he listened to the hate speech of rev wright for 20, and if you don't think listening to that krap for 20 years doesn't shape you, you liberals need your freaking heads examined.

Forest G. I believe the Mormons stopped the practice in the late 1800's as part of their religion. I am sure that has not stopped all but as part of their current doctrine that is gone. So the rest of your first question is mute. Technically it does not get around the laws although those few who refuse to accept the new doctrine claim freedom of religion. But they are such a small number and if those involved have no issue then why should we. If however their believe does interfer with our daily lives, like a murder or robbery or house invasion then that is a different matter. Or unless someone is held against their will to participate is this believe then that too becomes an issue. But no harm no foul why waste time, money, resources that do not cause harm to anyone.

@Forrest Grump 2.0, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints with worldwide headquarters in Salt Lake City no longer practices polygamy. This practice was done away with long ago. You are confusing this church with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, with Warren Jeffs for example. They do still practice having multiple wives. Mitt Romney is part of the LDS or Mormon church that does not practice polygamy. Common misconception and misunderstanding. But if anyone truly wants to know more about the church, why not go to www.mormon.org or www.lds.org and find out for yourself?

Mr. Grump, the official Mormon church no longer supports polygamy, it's the offshoot sects that still practice it, and they are violating the law (hence the Warren Jeffs manhunt) if they're open about it. If anyone needs more info on Mormonism, I highly recommend the book Under The Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer. It's a great read and covers the history and the teachings, although not flatteringly.

When Utah entered the US as a state, one of the conditions was that polygamy be outlawed. It was, they were, and that's that.

Good lord, didn't anybody take sixth grade history?

On a sly note- ever notice that there is always some focus on polygamy-more than one wife- but never any mention of polyandry- more than one husband?

Women have better sense than to choose to do more than one man's laundry.

Thanks for the info on different sects of Mormons with regards to multiple wives

Men used to say why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free, women now say why buy the whole pig if all you want is a little sausage!

Whether it is true or not the fact is that many people look at the Mormon religion as kind of cultish, that is the perception, which in politics can become the reality, it is not fair, but it is the truth, and even though his religion should not be a part of the equation, it is, the republican base has insured that going all the way back to such things as the moral majority. Liberals did not bring these troubles to Romneys doorstep, his own party brings them, they are the most concerned about a candidates religion.

Sorry NJNB I was not in the sixth grade when Utah became a state, I am a little younger than you.

Forrest,

While the so-called official LDS church abandoned polygamy in order to gain statehood, they still believe in Celestial marriage. Meaning that a man may have several wives in Celestial kingdom. This is another doctrine that Mitt Romney is less than honest about.

Can women have multiple husbands in heaven? Because I have a list.

I guess one mans heaven, could be another mans hell.

If Mrs. Grump goes to heaven (very likely) and I go to heaven (much less likely) and I get another wife, there will be trouble in heaven, that is why I still love Mrs. Grump after all these years, because she still gets jealous over me, nobody knows why the hell she does, but she does.

To clarify onthe multiple marraiges after death. We're not talking about you die and bam you get an extra wife. We're talking about folk like my great grandmother. She married a widower who already had a temple marraige to his first wife. She was also married to him in the temple so after death my great grandfather will have 2 wives. It is significantly different than the FLDS church with maintains you MUST have 3+ wives to enter heaven at all.

[Good lord, didn't anybody take sixth grade history?]

NoJo, this was what, like four years ago for you?

For the rest of us it was more like 40...get a grip and give us old farts a break...

no joe, no bo, nj

On a sly note- ever notice that there is always some focus on polygamy-more than one wife- but never any mention of polyandry- more than one husband?

Women have better sense than to choose to do more than one man's laundry.

Ziiiing - good one NJBJ!!

We're talking about folk like my great grandmother. She married a widower who already had a temple marraige to his first wife. She was also married to him in the temple so after death my great grandfather will have 2 wives.

So, if a widower (temple marriage) marries a widow (temple marriage), then in the afterlife you'd logically have two men married to the same two women! Talk about Celestial swinging! But why don't they take it to the next logical step and have multiple men and/or women all married together, regardless of gender?

Oh, that's right, they've got a big hangup about 2 men making love together, but not multiple men sharing multiple wives (in the afterlife, of course, not here).

Thank you bass679 for the information.

Reverend Wright is a preacher. He never ran for the presidency.

Perhaps the difference has escaped you?

Wrong kelly! Just what are you smoking? The Rev. Wright issue was covered extensively by MSNBC.

MSNBC wouldn't touch that one with a 10 foot poll.

Seriously?

Some people have very short memories... lol

For those who forgot, there was a show hosted by none other then Gotcha Gregory called 'Race to the White House' where he playing the Wright tapes NON-STOP for at least a month...

While rubbing his hands together and drooling....

The Rev. Wright issue was covered extensively by MSNBC.

You betcha! ;o)

Kellysview

Remember Pastor Wright? MSNBC wouldn't touch that one with a 10 foot poll. But they jump on Romney! My.. how fair and balanced!

Who says they did not touch that, i heard it everyday even after obama quit going to that church. i heard questions about his faith, how close he was to the rev wright even wrights love for his country even though he did 2 tours in vietman while in the marines. Its not the dems jumping on romney its the GOP

I'm a democrate and 4 years ago i said that if romney were the Gop nomnee he could have beaten Obama in 2008, but the establishmen in the republicans party will never vote for a morman.

i wish we could get religion out of politics, remember the seperation between church and state, will even if a man has no religion that does not discount him form being president.

President Obama is not a card carring religious person and he is the president.

The jump on Romney is from his fellow Republicans. Democrats are not flogging Romney or Huntsman for their religion, or for the fact Romney's grandfather feld to Mexico to escape laws against polygamy.

Amy B. Portland, ME

The jump on Romney is from his fellow Republicans. Democrats are not flogging Romney or Huntsman for their religion, or for the fact Romney's grandfather feld to Mexico to escape laws against polygamy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless YOU changed your party affiliation before posting....

lol, dangerfield.

You sound annoyed.

And, just look...yet another First Read offering regarding an obscure Dallas pastor and his comments about Romney's religion. I believe that's three in the past four days.

I can only hope that First Read continues to stay on top of this "story"...the comments are so educational.

Lean Forward.

With all these stories about Romney, religion, rocks, repeal and revolution aka - Occupy wall street, why no focus on the "super" committee?

If these GOP have another debate shortly, hopefully they schedule with MLS and the NFL... Can they answer what they will do to provide jobs? What is their plan on what they would do. Other than Cain's 9,9,9 idea they seem to all talk in general sound bites and only get specific in their criticism of Barack Obama. Griping and complaining about something or someone's policies only go so far.

As their side of the aisle are concerned with spending cuts, what are their ideas on what the super committe should cut? How do they plan to balance the deficit without an increase in revenues? What types of cuts will they support? I know it is not part of their script of reducing corporate taxes and cutting wasteful spending, but I would like to know.

I watched 60 minutes with the GE - CEO and Obama job czar. He proudly touted his "international" company. He spent the interview pressuring for a lower business tax rate, however when asked he admitted that he wasn't sure if this would create jobs. Last time it was lowered it didn't work, how will it be different this time?

With more technology it seems that there are less and less "human" jobs. The ones that are created are shifted overseas, as Immelt explains not out of lack of patriotism but to ensure the shareholders make money. I can predict that with their track record, if business taxes are lowered they would take the profits and create more "international" jobs.

I see a hit a raw nerve.... I rest my case. The democrats are very two-faced, racist and close minded.

Kellysview

The only Republican leaders who stood up for President Obama when he was called a non-native born muslim, were John McCain and Colin Powell.

A typical comment from a Republican leader. when asked about President Obama's religion is "I take him at his word." Not exactly full-throated condemnation of religious intolerance is it?

Kellysview, you have hit a raw nerve because you are untruthful.

The thread is about a Republican preacher who made a statement about a Republican politician. Where you get Democrats or racism into this I do not know...

And the ONLY reason he stopped was because he was outed for going to a racist church led by a bigoted religous cult fantatic! If he hadn't been in politics guess where he would be right now? Perhaps so far up Wright's backside that you wouldn't be able to see him!! Religion is as relavant now with Perry as it was back with Obama in 2008. If you can't connect the dots, then there is no hope for you!

Kellysview

BTW: FOX still lies. Here's the VIDEO. Did FOX air it yet?

This is hilarious. You got to see this VIDEO...

Geraldo Rivera Forced to Quit Broadcast Due to Occupy Wall Street Protesters Yelling 'Fox News Lies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxQHys4Tmf4&feature=player_embedded

Beverly in Chicago

That video gets two thumbs up! That was darn good stuff...

Obama Lies

I find it amusing that Obama supporters are commenting about Romney's religion. Harry Reid is a Mormon, after all, and whatever religion Romney practices, it is better than Rev. Wright's religion of hatred and bogotry that Obama listened to for 20 years.

AGAIN NUT JOB the liberals are not questioning ronmeny religion its the gop nut job right wing idiotts that are.

its funny that i never knew Reid was a mormon, why because religion is not a issue with dems that issue is a with the GOP.

its the GOP ie christin right wing that is beinging this up, not the rabbi's, ministers, priest that aline them selves with the dems that are not, because as MLK said we are all gods children

Obama Lies, how many years did you spend in this church to hear what the Rev was preaching or are you just repeating the 2 or 3 new clips and a few commentaries from fox noise. Get real unless you spent time in that church you have no idea what was said in what frame it was stated. You do not get it, religion has no place in politics for a many good reasons as have been show on this site. A person can have any faith they want in the country it is call freedom of religion even if you don't like it. But that same person in a public office has no right to impose their faith on anyone else period. and I do not see Obama or Reid doing that however I do see the right as demonstrated daily pushing their faith based agenda's on everyone through legislations they are passing or attempting to pass and that is a crime that should be punished.

So Wright was only a hate filled bigot on the 2 or 3 occasions where video cameras happened to be present and were the only 2 or 3 sermons Obama happened to miss? Only an Obama supporter could be so dim.

Or you could just answer the question...do you know everything Wright said?

Or maybe you could just save some of your disdain for those in the GOP who appear to have issue with Romney's religion.

...and if you don't think the GOP has an issue, remember what Michael Steele said in 2009...

"It was the base that rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism." - Michael Steele, 5/8/2009

If you'd read my original post, it referred to liberals joining in on the discussion when they have no room to question religious views in light of Obama and rev. Wright.

Well, speaking only for myself, I'm not questioning Romney's faith because, as stated above, it's none of my business.

However, if some blowhard wants to disqualify someone because of his faith, that's where I have a problem.

You should have a problem with it as well.

Obama Lies

If you'd read my original post, it referred to liberals joining in on the discussion when they have no room to question religious views in light of Obama and rev. Wright.

if you would have read alot of the other post here, most liberals are not judging Romney we are defending him against the christen right wing nut, Dr. Robert Jeffress, the senior pastor of the 10,000-member First Baptist Church of Dallas. if i'm not mistaken this is the same faction of the christen right that went after Obama for not being Christan enough for them as well as not giving a sh*t about the rev wright untill those excerpts from a sermon came out.

I find it amusing that Obama supporters are commenting about Romney's religion.

You really think that Rev. Jeffree is an "Obama supporter"? NOT! Nor are any of the other anti-Mormon speakers at the "Value Voters Summit".

The only comments by actual Obama supporters is that Romney's religion is a non-issue. Now, some of Romney's political positions ARE a big issue, as is his habit of changing his position to suit whatever audience he is speaking to.

The best!!!!! The only point you missed was the one where all the "not rich" people have to shop at thrift stores and buy used goods (including roofs, gas, driveways - I guess).

See if you can work that one in - just for me!

Catholics believe a little different than Baptist, which is a little different from Methodist which is a little different from Episcopals. But to call the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, not christian is just ignorant. And by the way, they are all cults.

pwayne so what is your point that their faith is different than yours big deal, who stands in judgment of which is right and which is wrong maybe both are wrong or both are right. It is not your job or the christian faiths to stand in judgement of another faith just because theirs is different. It not a matter of your faith but what you do with it. How has any other faith affected your life other than the radical sections of all faiths.

tunanut

And by the way, they are all cults.

The nut jobs in the GOP; primarily the Tea suckers are a cult too. They act very strange; kinda like moonies. All of them are going so far right you'd think they were looking for the end of the world.

In fact, the right wing, psycho, anti-Obama newspaper the "Washington Times" is owned by a moonie.

Mormons believe that Christ is the brother of satan.

No, we believe Satan to be a fallen angel and Christ to be the only begotten son of God the father, just as any other Christians do. We do NOT believe the trinity to be a single being with 3 aspects, rather we consider the Father, Son and holy Ghost to be 3 seperate entities who work in concert.

Mormons don't believe in hell.

Yes we do, technically 2 of them. The spiritual prison for after death but before the ressurection and the Outer Darkness for those juded deserving of it after final Ressurection. Fair enough though that we don't harp on brimstone.

Mormons believe that people can be saved by baptizing them after death. Therefore they are intererested in ancestors...Ancestry . com is a Mormon company.

And the basis for this is in the book of James where it is asked "Therefore if the dead rise not at all why are we then baptized for the dead?" We view it as God's way of providing for those who in life never had a chance to hear the Gospel.

Mormons believe that they secure their salvation by performing good works, missions, with a little help from Christ.

Absolutely false. We believe in salvation by the Grace of God through the atonement of his son Jesus Christ. We DO place a high emphasis on works because we believe them to be inseperable from faith. I believe it is the book of Hebrews that says "Faith without works is dead and works without faith are empty". We believe all the work in the world won't bring you salvation, works are just how we show our faith.

Mormons claim to believe in the Bible, but do not accept its teachings. They have another source other than the Bible...the book of mormon which is a total work of fiction.

Well, neither of us can prove the reality of the Book of Mormon, but we hold it to be the word of God as well as the Bible. But there are many other Christian sects who use other works such as the Gnostic Gospels. Some Protestant faiths don't accept all of the Gospels as doctorine. We believe all of the Scripture should be used together and draw both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

To sum up, yes we are Christians, maybe not your kind but Christian none the less. If you don't believe it I would advise you to call some of your local LDS missionaries and ask them for their testimonies of Christ. Unfortunately this post will likely just be ignored because it doesn't fit some folk's world view.

My bad, I was trying to address his particular points but I can kind of address yours as well

12 stones in a breastplate technically. And if you had read the book of Mormon you'd know that all but maybe a handful of the people's from Israel were wiped out by around 600BC. And not part of a 13th tribe, if i recall they were part of the tribe of Ephram but I don't have a scriptures handy atm. I have seen many of the edits and rewrites, honestly 90% are changes of articles lie "at" to "of' and such. But I don't consider my scholarship on the subject to be very complete so I can't argue that point at all

We DO hold the Joseph Smith Translation to be correct BUT we don't own it. It is owned by his descendents and we are only allowed to print a few hundred key verses with their permission. This actually comes up periodically when the LDS church tries to buy the rights to the JST because it's the version we would prefer to use. typically we use the King James version though because it's the most common though any biblical scholar will tell you all the versions have translation errors. Myself, I prefer the KJV because I know it best, others prefer other translations often because that's what they grew up with.

As to the rest, cain's children being marked is old testament. Satan beign Christ's brother, well it's not doctorine but I've often found Christians to be some of the worst at knowing the Doctorine of Christ and we're no different. It is particularly bad in Utah where we are the majority so many people are raised in the church and don't really actually learn about their own faith.

There's a lot of evidence on both side for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, as with anything that terrible the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and will never truly be resolved. I never understood the obsession with Porter Rockwell either if it makes you feel better, but my Muslim father and formerly Catholic step father also hold him as a great hero of the old west so that's more of a Utah thing thatn an LDS thing.

Having to read the history of Mormons on a political blog is the sure proof that religion needs to get out of politics.

As true as that is, i find it unlikely to happen any time soon.

No, but we have Andrew jackson on our money as a thank you for the Trail of Tears.

All the Chrisitian denominations are in agreement on the Trinity and that Christ is an equal person, the Son of that Trinity. They believe that Christ died on the cross and paid the price for our sins in full. They believe in hell. They believe that this life is our one and only chance for salvation. They believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. These are the cornerstones of the Christian faith....without exception. There is no disagreement among Christians on these points and the mormons don't believe any of the cornerstones mentioned and are absolutely not Christians.

The question is a mormon a Christian? There is an answer. Christians believe that Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity....Father , Son and Holy Ghost. Christ say in Scripture,"I must be about my Father's business." He says that the Helper would come to our aid until His second coming. The Helper is the Holy Spirit.

No disagreement there, that is also Mormon belief. They just don't accept the "triune" notion that makes God/Jesus to be his own father in a bizarrely incestuous way.

Mormons believe that Christ is the brother of satan.

Mormons believe we are all "sons and daughters of God", and the Bible says that God created all things good and evil, thus making both Christ and Satan the creations of God, thus "brothers".

Christians believe in hell. Christ talked about hell more than heaven. Mormons don't believe in hell.

Actually, they do believe in hell, but they believe it is only for the irredeemably wicked and evil, not for those who had the misfortune of not hearing about Christ while they were alive.

Christians believe that this life is their only chance to secure their salvation through acceptance of Christ and turning away from sin.

Thus claiming those who didn't have a chance to hear the gospel won't be saved and are doomed. Doesn't sound very fair or just, does it?

Mormons believe that people can be saved by baptizing them after death. Therefore they are intererested in ancestors...Ancestry . com is a Mormon company.

Gives those who didn't hear the gospel on earth a chance, sounds a lot more fair. But why require baptism by proxy? Couldn't they get baptized on their own in the afterlife? For that matter, why is that ritual required at all? Well, nobody said religion had to make any sense!

Mormons claim to believe in the Bible, but do not accept its teachings. They have another source other than the Bible...the book of Mormon which is a total work of fiction.

As contrasted to the Bible, which is mostly fiction, with a smattering of historical facts.

Christians believe the Bible is the only inerrant Word of God. There can be no additions or subtractions to it.

Funny thing is, you quote from the Bible to "prove" they aren't Christian, and they quote from the same Bible to "prove" they are Christian! Sounds like a tie to me. Pick and choose the right verses, and you could support almost any belief! Neither one of you can actually prove that your particular version of God exists, let alone prove that your particular interperatation of the Bible really is the "inerrant Word of God".

With over a thousand different "Christian" religions disagreeing on so many theological points, and a long list of internal contradictions and nonsense found therein, the Bible hardly ranks as "inerrant".

As for "There can be no additions or subtractions to it", that is based on a verse near the end of Revelations - but there is a similar verse in the Old Testament that if strictly followed would eliminate portions of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament!

There were other New Testament scriptures written after Revelations, the order of the books was an editing decision made centuries later.

Let us sort facts from the fiction here. The LDS (Mormon) apologetics are about as accurate as most Christians' understanding of the (Mormon) Latter-Day-Saint faith.

Mormons believe that Christ is the brother of Satan.

All life is a creation of God and in a very real sense they (all life) are his children. In this context Satan is Jesus's brother. Jesus and Satan both stood before the face of God in the pre-existence.

Christians believe in hell. Christ talked about hell more than heaven.

Mormons don't believe in hell.

With the death and resurrection Jesus the Christ, both Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is nothing more than a way to frighten primitive man and help keep him on the straight path. When we stand before God to be judged according to our deeds it is we who will judge ourselves. Heaven or Hell will be one of our own making.

Christians believe that this life is their only chance to secure their salvation through acceptance of Christ and turning away from sin.

Mormons believe that people can be saved by baptizing them after death. Therefore they are interested in ancestors...Ancestry . com is a Mormon company.

Everybody deserves a chance, but Christians would condemn anyone - men, women, and children who have not been taught of Jesus or his salvation. At least the LDS version offers a chance to all mankind so that all mankind may be judged according that which is within their heart. It offers hope for salvation to even those hidden in the deepest jungle who would otherwise be condemned to the Christian Hell. Also, baptism for the dead was practiced in the early Church; for why then would Paul ask, "...if the dead rise not at all. Why then are you baptizing for the dead?"

Christians believe that Christ paid the price for our sins in full by His death on the Cross. Christ plus nothing equals salvation.

Mormons believe that they secure their salvation by performing good works, missions, with a little help from Christ.

This is probably of the biggest misconception about the Latter-Day-Saints and probably the most misunderstood principles by the Saints themselves. On one level, salvation from death through Christ's sacrifice is a free gift to all mankind. Salvation from sin is an ask and ye shall receive salvation, but you have to ask. Exaltation in the Kingdom is based on works. The Bible says we will be judged according to our works. Our faith is not be hidden. Jesus taught us to serve one another. His was a religion of service to others. Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are many mansions." The Latter-Day-Saints having already been saved from their sin through Jesus the Christ work to live in something other than a glorified cardboard box that the do nothing Christians will get just for being "Saved."

Mormons claim to believe in the Bible, but do not accept its teachings. They have another source other than the Bible...the Book of Mormon which is a total work of fiction.

I tell you what, actually read the Book of Mormon and then get back to me on this one. Even as a total work of fiction it has some of the most profound doctrinal discourses found in any religious writings. I don't know of any Bible teaching that the Latter-Day-Saints don't believe and follow more strictly than any Christian. I have actually found that Christians view the Bible as more allegorical; where as the Latter-Day-Saints take the Bible much more literally by comparison.

Christians believe the Bible is the only inerrant Word of God. There can be no additions or subtractions to it.

Muslims say the same thing about the Qu'ran too. The reality is that that the no additions and subtraction thing can be found in the Old Testament which makes the whole New Testament an addition. Have you even bothered to study the history of the Bible? The NIV and the King James is actually a few books shy of what was actually in the original Bible. Only the Old Testament was an actual book as compared to the New Testament which was mostly a bunch of letters that got passed around from church to church until a couple of hundred years later when they finally got around to making a book out of them and even then not everything was included.

With the exception of the Latter-Day-Saints, all most all other Christian religions are some form of derivative of Catholicism and were considered cults by the Catholics at the time.

I could add a few more things to your list like:

Mormons don't pray to Jesus, nor do they worship him as God. They pray to God the Father in Jesus's name. They worship only God the Father and only revere and honor Jesus the Christ as his only begotten son, and the Holy Ghost.

Mormons beieve Adam and Eve were real people.

Mormons are taught not to take everything on faith and to seek out the truth of the matter for themselves. Most Mormons don't always remember this though.

Mormons believe that God really is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Mormons believe in prophets, and angels, and the reality of the ongoing war between Heaven and Hell.

The Mormon Church actually pays income tax on all their profits even though they don't have to.

Mormons believe that as literal children of God the potential of all mankind is to become like God and recipients of all that God has as our reward for our faith and service to Him. All that God has is knowledge, knowledge to build worlds, solar systems, etc.

Mormons believe that we (all life) are all eternal creatures and that we have alway existed in one form or another.

Mormons believe that the atonement of Jesus the Christ was universal for all of this creation.

Mormons do not believe that Christ was Jesus's last name.

Mormons believe that we all had a hand in building our world and in that sense we are all Gods of this world.

Mormons do not believe that all that has been written about God has been revealed to mankind, but they do believe we live in the Last Days when all things will be revealed to the children of men.

Trust me when I say that I could keep going and going and going and I wouldn't even get into Islam and why I think Mohammad was a prophet of God.

Sooooo...with all these distinctions, why the clamoring to be considered Christians?

John Di-1111810

Yes, I think they are required to.

Amy B not really, There is in the constitution I belief a statement that a persons religious belief is not to be a factor in their election. So no they are not required to explain or defend their belief. Nor should anyone including yourself regardless of your beliefs.

Tis the Season

I agree, the constitution says there shall be no religious test for public office, yet Tim Russert asked the Democratic primary candidates in 2007 which was their favorite bible verse. I was incensed. Questions like that diminish religious beliebers, as well as our political system. It was a terrible question he asked, and no one objected.

names?

John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Howard Taft and Fillmore. They were all Unitarians. NON-CHRISTiANS!

cool.

Thomas Jefferson did not believe Christ to be the Son of God. He was a Diest just like the other Founding Fathers.

He wouldn't get elected today...

They were the ones saying that Obama was a Muslim.

"LyndaAZ" - exactly, I've been saying that all along. Did people really think this issue was going to go away as far as evangelicals are concerned? The closer Mitt gets toward nomination, the bigger this issue will become. Rick Perry has disappointed them but he has time to recover - and Herman Cane is just delusional if he thinks he has a real shot at their nomination.

So what? The constitution states explicitly that there shall be no religious test to hold public office. You "conservatives" are so hypocritical when you say you are "strict constructionists" and "strict constitutionalists," then promptly ignore any part of the Constitution you don't like.

Besides, how the heck do you know some of your favorite bible thumping politicians aren't Satan worshippers? Because they tout their belief in Jesus? You expect a Satanist to tell the truth? Hahahahahahaha!

Definitely!!!!

If someone's professed moral code was, "I want to reap pain and suffering and ignorance!" then it would definitely be an issue. But .... what sect of Christianity or non-Christianity are you? ... so what? What are your standards and values, what is your code of ethics, do you practice what you preach, will you represent me fairly? THAT is what matters.