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Subscribe to RSSWhat we learned this week: 1) Team Obama admits they’re in trouble; 2) the GOP field is officially set… Is it Romney’s race to lose or Perry’s race to win?... Another way to look at it: Stanford vs. LSU… September jobs report: 103,000 jobs added last month but unemployment rate remains unchanged at 9.1%... Basta, Senate!... GOP presidentials speak at Values Voter summit… Romney delivers foreign-policy/national-security speech at 10:45 am ET… Dem strategist on Romney speech: “petty” and “politically motivated”… Two points on Scott Brown’s “Thank God” comment… And “Meet the Press” has Rahm Emanuel and Paul Ryan.
*** What we learned this week: We learned a couple of very important things about the 2012 presidential race this week. First, Team Obama acknowledged what all the polls suggest -- they’re in trouble and have quite a bit of work to do. In an interview, President Obama referred to himself as the underdog, and he also said the economic situation looks bleak. “There is no doubt that the economy is weaker now than it was at the beginning of the year,” he said at his press conference yesterday. “And every independent economist who has looked at this question carefully believes that for us to make sure that we are taking out an insurance policy against a possible double-dip recession.” Meanwhile, Vice President Biden gave this response when NBC’s David Gregory asked him if the Republican Party is strong enough to beat Obama next year: “Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s absolutely strong enough to beat both of us.”
*** Romney’s race to lose or Perry’s race to win? The other important thing we learned about 2012 is that the GOP field is now officially set, with both Chris Christie and Sarah Palin taking a pass on the race. There are two ways to look at the Republican contest. One, it’s Mitt Romney’s to lose. Or two, as Charlie Cook puts it today, it’s Rick Perry’s to win. “Clearly,” Cook writes, “most Republican voters would much prefer a very, very, very conservative nominee to the more buttoned-down Romney. (Even if he has shed his pinstriped suits and nice ties in favor of sports shirts and khakis, he still looks like he could be a Haggar slacks model.) It’s unclear whether they want, or will end up supporting, Perry—but, obviously, they want a Perry-like conservative. But it comes down to Perry’s capacity to turn the corner, to become a national, as opposed to a Texas or a Deep South, candidate.”
*** Stanford vs. LSU: With another slate of good college football games tomorrow, here’s another way to look at the Romney vs. Perry race. Romney is like Stanford -- good starting line-up, a veteran team with a smart game plan, but with little depth and few five-star recruits. That kind of team can’t afford any mistakes. Perry, meanwhile, looks like LSU -- tons of talent, lots of depth, but prone to mistakes and some poor coaching decisions (sorry, Les). And in today’s Republican Party, Perry’s team is the home team, while Romney’s is on the road. So far in this game, Romney’s team has the lead, driving up and down the field, but ONLY kicking field goals so the lead isn’t insurmountable. Perry’s team has turned the ball over a couple of times, but just scored a TD with his 3rd quarter fundraising haul. And we’re still in the first quarter… (We know we took this analogy to the extreme and stretched it to the point the rubber band is about to break, but it’s Friday!)
*** Sept. jobs report -- better than last month, but hardly something to celebrate: Here’s the latest report: Employers added 103,000 jobs in September and the unemployment rate remains at 9.1%. The AP: “The Labor Department also revised the previous two months to show that companies hired at a better pace than first estimated. Nearly half of the gains last month occurred because 45,000 striking Verizon workers returned to their jobs. Employers have added an average of only 72,000 jobs in the past five months. The economy must create twice as many just to keep up with population growth.” The numbers are better than last month’s, but hardly something to celebrate.
*** Basta! If you thought things couldn’t get worse in Congress… Per Roll Call, “Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) executed a rare power play to box in the GOP on Thursday night, setting a new precedent that effectively nukes a rarely used procedural motion and drawing a vociferous rebuke from Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky).” More: “Reid’s move to effectively neuter the obscure procedural motion — one that has not been successfully used since 1941 and had not even been attempted this year before today — came after months of frustration over GOP stalling tactics, Democrats said.” Bottom line: Reid changed the rules that Democrats charge Republicans have been abusing. Call what Reid did the “Basta Rule.” In Italian, you use the word "Basta" when you've had enough. Someone keeps on talking and you just want them to stop, you might say, "Basta!" Or two siblings are fighting, and you've had enough and need to make a point, then "Basta!" Last night was another toxic moment in Congress, and yet another example how the once-pristine Senate looks more and more like the rough-and-tumble House.
*** When is someone going to say, “Enough”? We’re curious: When are some of the adults in the Senate who aren’t in leadership going to say enough and actually try and do something about this toxic atmosphere? That’s what these rank-and-file senators claim they want to do when they either LEAVE the body or go home for a town hall.
*** Values Voter summit: Social conservatives -- including the GOP presidential candidates -- gather in DC today for the annual Values Voter summit, sponsored in part by the Family Research Council. The line-up: Rick Santorum (11:40 am ET) speaks in the morning; Rick Perry (2:25 pm), Herman Cain (4:15 pm), and Newt Gingrich (5:00 pm) go in the afternoon; and Michele Bachmann (7:30 pm) addresses the confab in the evening. Meanwhile, Ron Paul (9:25 am) and Mitt Romney (9:55 am) will speak at the Values Voter summit tomorrow, and Jon Huntsman isn’t attending at all. Like in past years, the summit is holding a straw poll, the results of which will be announced at a 3:15 pm Saturday press conference.
*** Romney talks foreign policy: So while many of his GOP rivals will be speaking today at the Values Voter summit, Romney delivers a foreign-policy/national-security speech at 10:45 am ET at The Citadel in Charleston, SC. According to excerpts, it contains -- not surprisingly -- several digs at President Obama. “As president of the United States, I will devote myself to an American Century. And I will never, ever apologize for America.” He will also say, “As president, on Day 1, I will focus on rebuilding America’s economy and I will reverse President Obama’s massive defense cuts.” And: “I will not surrender America’s role in the world. This is very simple: If you do not want America to be the strongest nation on Earth, I am not your president. You have that president today.”
*** Dem response: Romney speech “petty” and “politically motivated”: In response to Romney’s speech today, a Democratic strategist emails First Read: “Mitt Romney has a heckuva a feat in his seminal foreign policy address tomorrow -- starting with how to untangle himself from his myriad of contradictory positions he has taken on foreign policy issues over the years (both sides of whether to stay or draw down in Afghanistan, both sides on Libya… His second big feat will be to make a credible argument against President Obama's leadership on the world stage - after all - what will say against killing bin Laden … ending combat operations in Iraq, transitioning to an Afghan security force lead and drawing down our troops there, standing up for Israel at the UN, strengthening our alliances, overthrowing Khaddafy and fostering Democracy movements in the Middle East. Romney's criticisms of that stellar record are likely to come off petty and nothing more than politically motivated."
*** Two points on Scott Brown’s “Thank God” remark: Scott Brown’s “Thank God” Elizabeth Warren kept her clothes on remark is still getting play today. Two quick points: 1) It’s clear that Warren has gotten under Brown’s skin a bit, and 2) sexism might not hurt you in Massachusetts as much as other states. After all, female statewide candidates haven’t had the best track record in the Bay State (see: Martha Coakley, Shannon O’Brien, and Kerry Healey). But here’s what we do know: A Brown-Warren match-up is going to be VERY entertaining.
*** Friday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up: Reaction to the new job numbers with National Economic Council Director Gene Sperling and Moody’s Mark Zandi… Brennan Center’s Michael Waldman and the Wall Street Journal’s John Fund on new state voting law changes and what they mean for 2012… Plus more 2012 news with Roll Call’s Shira Toeplitz, ThinkProgress.org’s Faiz Shakir, and MSNBC’s Michelle Bernard.
*** Friday’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” line-up: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell interviews Nobel Prize winner Leymah Gbowee, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, former GOP Sen. Norm Coleman, NBC’s David Gregory, and the Washington Post’s Ruth Marcus and Chris Cillizza.
*** Sunday’s “Meet the Press” line-up: And “Meet the Press” has announced its line-up for this weekend. In a special live edition from Chicago, NBC’s David Gregory will interview Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, as well as House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan.
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 32 days
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The crazy conservatives don't come much more compassionate than this;
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/05/336423/her-cain-jobless-blame-yourself/
Note to Herman – when running for the highest office in the land, it's usually best to have some
FACTS to back up your baloney!
Discerning voters greatly appreciate it!
It's a shame Cain is so far removed from reality he would recognize it if it slapped him in the face;
This is the dude that's going to single handedly save the Republican Party's 'bacon'? lol
Give me a break…
Vote for Cain 2012 – a plastic cheese pizza in less than 30 minutes or it's free!
Jody, Iowa
"And that's the way it is...." this week.
This is the dude that's going to single handedly save the Republican Party's 'bacon'? lol
Give me a break…
Vote for Cain 2012 – a plastic cheese pizza in less than 30 minutes or it's free
Jody, You are so great in your summations.
Can anyone (in their wildest dreams) imagine Larry O'Donnell (or any member of the mainstream media) conducting the same sort of interview with candidate Barack Obama in 2008 that he conducted last night with GOP candidate Herman Cain?
lol
Larry simply sounded petty, unprofessional, and ultimately, rattled; Cain, meanwhile, appeared dignified and unflappable.
The contrast couldn't have been more apparent.
"Lean Forward".
Hilarious.
Herman Cain is done. Lawrence O'Donnell interviewed him last night and exposed Cain as just another right-wing drone....perhaps even more dangerous than the others because it appears Cain actually believes what he is saying.
For the most part, Cain actually looked good. His answers were straight-up and he showed no fear of Mr. O'Donnell. In that respect, he is clearly superior to his Republican counterparts. In the end though, Cain exposed himself as a liar and completely out of touch with reality.
Why didn't he participate in the Civil Rights protests? I thought Mr. O'Donnell was over the line on that one. The color of Mr. Cain's skin does not require that he face down racists and bigots. Indeed, the majority of dark-skinned Americans DID NOT engage racism directly. So be it, and one might note, the Civil Rights Act passed without their participation.
However, Cain blew it and exposed himself on the question of Viet Nam. Why didn't he serve? Again, Cain was not obligated to enlist in the service, but he was of draft age. He claims he was granted a special deferment by his draft board due to his skills in ballistics.
Cain entered college in 1963, which would put him at draft age. By 1965, Cain would have been a junior and the draft was pulling us into the service at a stunning pace. He would have us believe that he received his deferment thanks to his expertise in ballistics. Yes, there were deferments for defense specialties, but really, to 20-year-old college juniors? Yes, he was a math major - an impressive major to be sure - but he almost certainly could not have impressed anyone with his brilliance in ballistics at that age and at that point in his academic progression. I'm not buying it. I'm buying 2-S deferment a la Dick Cheney.
Where he really failed though was on his "9.99 Government Is Just Like Pizza" plan. How, Mr. O'Donnell asked, would this not destroy the working man? Either Cain was lying or he flatly does not know the facts. Mr. Cain says his nine-per-cent payroll tax actually reduces taxes on workers, because the current tax bite is 15.3%. That is pure crap.
Until recently, the worker was on the hook for half that amount - 7.65%. That's right - half, 50%. The employer pays the other half. Period. That tax is for FICA and FICAMed, which we know as Social Security and Medicare. (Dammit, don't stop reading now! These damned Republicans count on your being afraid of arithmetic.) But there's been a change. Right now, employees pay a rate of 4.2% for Social Security, down from 6.2%. For someone making $8.00 hourly, that's about $330.00 they keep each year, that would have gone to FICA.
Cain proposes that the employee now pick up 9% and the employer pay nothing. His plan will utterly destroy Social Security. It will destroy Medicare. Indeed, it will destroy the country as we know it. On top of that, he will hit the $8.00 an hour worker with a 9% sales tax.
How ironic that a man of color would propose reducing working Americans to the status of slaves. Herman Cain is either stark staring mad, or stark staring stupid.
Feisty, terrific way to start Friday on FR. David Walker, also terrific.
Where was Herman Cain when Wall Street and those big banks collapsed in 2008? They caused the Great Recession and he's blaming President Obama who was not even elected yet when it happened. Talk about conspiracy theory jibberish. Cain may have taken the GOP lead in some polls and is tied with Romney in others but it won't take long to crash and burn by claiming that it's the people's fault they lost their jobs when Wall Street melted down and needed a bailout. Talk about missing the point of OWS, Cain wasn't even close to the football field.
Did anyone else catch Lawrence O'Donnell shred Cain last night like cheap mozzarella?
When the going got tough - the tough guy melted! lol
@David - I see we watched the same show! ;o)
Obama in 2012.
Blame Yourself!
Yup, that's WHAT the new HAGEN DAZ flavor of the month , BLACK WALNUT, btw, Hermain Cain says. Blame yourself, Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks — if you don’t have a job and you are not rich. yep, the greedy bas-turds bankrupted the country, left millions poor and/or unemployed. So now RepubliCONs and Tea-tards want the America middle and poor classes to blame themselves for what they did to wreck this economy.
“I don’t have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated, to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration,” Cain said. “Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks — if you don’t have a job and you are not rich, blame yourself!”
says HURRICAIN.
I guess he's just a DFH, anti-capitalist Marxist, too. By the way, Stiglitz nailed it on why Herman Cain and other Republicans are so willing to blame the unemployed for their own plight: "[The wealthy] become more distant from ordinary people, losing whatever empathy they may once have had."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44810320#44810320
So when HurriCain says black people are brainswahed, he takes a to help Rick Perry return Blacks to the Republican. Essentialy , HurriCain is this..
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Runaways_Liberal_Plantation.gif
That's right he is a back in the days of slave cathcers
"Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will." Mark Twain quote
For HurriCAIN to suggest that they black people are brain washed and then go on Lawrence O'Donnell and argue about his ludicrous 999 plan is quite a scheme HurriCAINve got going, huh?
“I have facts to back this up
Blame Yourself BLACK WALNUT!
Occupy Wall Street: Video Shows NYPD Officer Striking Protesters With Baton
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/10/06-2
Actually, I agree with that, at least in part. O'Donnell was mostly off message and he attempted to ambush Cain at least twice -- about his participation in the Civil Rights Movement and about his non-military service.
He didn't need to do that. All he needed to do is let Cain talk. O'Donnell could have focused his questions on the 9-9-9 plan, which has plenty of flaws. Instead, he let Cain claim the moral highground with a crowd of cheering supporters behind him to make him look sympathetic.
Bad staging for the ambush, if nothing else.
But, to me, Cain sounded petulant and defiant. He has a smugness and thinly veiled arrogance about him that is pretty unappealing.
People have talked out here about President Obama's anger when roused by reporters the other day. I watched those clips and didn't see what they were talking about.
Cain's smoldering anger is obvious. He has revealed himself to be maybe even more intemperate than Chris Christie. And maybe, in the end, that's what O'Donnell was trying to accomplish.
But he didn't have to do it that way.
The new strategy is to blame Congress, instead, because the Democrats regained control after the 2006 elections.
But I remember 2007 and 2008, in which nothing much got done, either in the White House or Congress, as they dickered about Iraq, ignored pressing veterans' and immigration issues, and pretty much abandoned governance in anticipation of the 2008 elections.
So the regulatory climate in 2007 and 2008 was pretty much the same as it had been before that.
I would love to hear any conservative out here point to a single action by Congress during that period that in any way precipitated the collapse of the housing bubble at the end of 2007 or the Wall Street collapse at the end of 2008.
I have made this challenge before, and I'm still waiting.
Obama, really, really, really wants his half billion dollar slush fund from Congress. As the unemployment numbers continue to show Stimulus I didn' twork, now Obama wants Stimulus II, which will also not work. Debt? Deficits? FY2012 budget? All mysteries to Obama.
Obama also believes his loans to Solyndra were "justified". For sure they were justified, those where some pretty big political donors that had lots to do with Solyndra, and they needed their payoffs.
In other news, the Occupy [where ever] crowd continues to embarrass themselves. Erin Burnett of CNN showed that they are nothing but a traveling clown circus funded by the unions.
Happy Friday everyone!
Richard, a big group pushes a cop back against a barrier, someone is gonna get hit.
Bev
This is a direct copy from the Daily Kos with no credit given to them. So now you are the Chicago chief plagerist as well as the village idiot!! Quite a daily double.
The Detroit Tigers beat the Yankees last night to advance to Texas in the ALCS this weekend with Cy Young winner-to-be Justin Verlander on the mound tomorrow.
On Monday the 4-0 (Yes 4-0) Detroit Lions play the woeful Chicago Bears in the first Home Monday night football game in forever. 5-0!
The Tigers return Tuesday and Wednesday for the First 2 home games of the ALCS in Comerica Park.
The Detroit Red Wings open the 2011-2012 NHL Season tonight at Joe Louis Arena.
University of Michigan is 5-0 and will whip Northwestern this weekend to go to 6-0.
Weatherman says mid 70's and sunny all weekend.
It's good to be a Detroiter today.
Play nice and have a wonderful weekend FR.
Anna
Did the big O have any military service?
I would like to start the day with a big Happy 15th Birthday to the best and highest rated cable news network on the air – Fox News Network. In a few short years, Fox News has become the beacon for truth, justice and the American way. Ratings don’t lie! Its dedication to presenting a “fair and balanced” approach to reporting of the issues is beginning to seep ever so slowly but assuredly into the other media – as evidenced in yesterday’s press conference.
The media is beginning to see the incompetence of this administration and its inability to mold a consensus and “git er done.” The rhetoric that I have tried to work with the other side to my “own peril” (chuckle) belies the actions. Obama’s approach since he does not have a record worth squat to run on is to divide, attack and conquer. Pathetic.
The questions from the very beginning were tough and pointed. Obama’s tactic to deflect more of them was to give long winded answers to “yes or no” questions as he stumbled through them. I do admit he is a good orator but the media is seeing through that charade.
The wheels are falling off rapidly. The Solyndra scandal is growing resulting in a “resignation” (snicker), and the administration is scared. There will be more coming out in the misuse of the federal loan program IMHO. CBS is shaking in its boots. It broke the Fast & Furious scandal and now has evidence that Att. Gen. Holder has lied before Congress and is perpetrating a cover-up. CBS knows it will have to release that information and I believe it will. The “transparent” administration has now become the most opaque administration in history. Up until recently, NBC hadn’t mentioned Fast & Furious since April – that is appalling.
Today the Labor Department reports nonfarm payrolls increased by 103,000 in September, blowing past estimates of 60,000. The figure reflected the return of 45,000 Verizon employees to payrolls after striking in August; excluding them, payrolls rose by 58,000. The jobless rate held steady at 9.1% as expected. So, combined with last month’s BIG ZERO, that is a paltry 29,000 per month in new jobs.
This is the result of a failed economic policy and Obama is looking to pass the blame on to someone else. Yesterday we were all treated to the revelation that “tax cuts” will create jobs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2011/10/06/gIQAknHOQL_story.html
“You know, congressional Republicans say one of the most important things we can do is cut taxes. Then they should love this plan. This jobs bill would cut taxes for virtually every worker and small business in America.
If you’re a small-business owner that hires someone or raises wages you would get another tax cut. If you hire a veteran, you get a tax cut.”
The LWNJs on here had a disturbance in the force with that one. “Oh, crap! How will we walk this one back?” Another disturbance was a LWNJs attempt to educate us on the Constitution. Calling the AJA a revenue bill, he was touting that the House had to introduce the bill and vote on it first. Boy was that shattered yesterday when OOPS the Senate will vote on it next week after its leadership refused to follow the president’s plea – begging on bended knee – to Pass the Bill Now – and will modify the plan. Keep your education tidbits to yourself until you know what you are talking about.
So, when the Democrats don’t vote for the bill in unison and it goes down to defeat, you will only show how ignorant you really are if you say the Republicans defeated the bill by all voting against it. Senate Democrats do not need any Republicans to pass the bill. So in advance – shut your pie hole.
Finally – Congratulations to Bill O’Reilly whose new book is No. 1 on the NY Times and Amazon best selling lists!!!!!
@Beverly -- There is no call for bigotry in speaking about Herman Cain. @David Walker -- you are wrong.
Mixed Bag
Can anyone (in their wildest dreams) imagine Larry O'Donnell (or any member of the mainstream media) conducting the same sort of interview with candidate Barack Obama in 2008 that he conducted last night with GOP candidate Herman Cain?
lol
Ummm, NO, Mixed Bag
There simply would be no reason to ask our President those questions since our President not only lives in the present but is a visionary.
Larry simply sounded petty, unprofessional, and ultimately, rattled; Cain, meanwhile, appeared dignified and unflappable.
The contrast couldn't have been more apparen
You're
I like the sports analogy - and would LOVE to see Stanford/ LSU in the final game!!!
Something along the same line to consider, Les Miles does make some poor coaching decisions, but he is bold as hell and a depending how a gutsy coaching decision plays out on the field the coach is a hero or villain.
Willard? Rick? How bold are you?
No. And neither did Clinton, and neither, in any significant way, did Bush 43 or Ronald Reagan or Richard Nixon.
And it's really not relevant. Either way. That was my point.
Sorry you missed it in your haste to assume bias in what I said.
Shemp Mathews Wiffleball Comedy Hour had a Hillaryous segment about Barry’s 2012 election prospects. At the end, Shemp and lefty liberal talking head Jennifer Donahue had the following exchange:
Shemp: If three years ago you bought a Ford or Chevy that turned out to be a lemon, would you buy another one next year?
Donahue: Well…. No.
Shemp: That’s Obama’s problem.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even funnier was this exchange between a radio talk show host and Scott Brown:
Radio host: What’s your response to Elizabeth Warren’s comment that she didn’t take her clothes off to pay for college?
Brown: Thank God.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Over 4 job seekers for every available job and Conservatives refuse to move off their talking point that if you're unemployed it's YOUR FAULT. Never mind that the "job creators" are actually creating NEGATIVE jobs after we've redistributed vast wealth from the middle to the top.
Conservatism isn't about consistently of thought or principle, it's a group of unconnected talking points designed to sell policies beneficial to the rich.
Mixed Bag
Larry simply sounded petty, unprofessional, and ultimately, rattled; Cain, meanwhile, appeared dignified and unflappable.
The contrast couldn't have been more apparent
To finish my comment which got cut off --You're rattled because Cain has you brainwashed.
Thanks for the repost, Bev.
Good one, eh?
Yet Republicans refuse to do something they claim to believe in...why is that?
Cain evidently doesn't understand, the people he's looking down on and putting down are the vary people that made him what he is today, their the ones who bought his over priced pizza's, paid for the roads to get his supplies to his stores, paid to educate his employees, paid for the police and fire fighters to protect his stores and now he says I'm better than you get out of my face. What a piece of work this guy is.
The American people all over this land are reaching out to their representatives in Congress, asking them to support President Obama’s jobs plan.
Make your voice heard today. Contact your Representatives
Obama/ Biden 2012
http://ametia.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-biden-2012.jpg?w=150
Bag boy you evidently watched a different Larry O'Donnell show than the rest of us. It was Cain that looked petty, unprofessional, and ultimately, rattled, besides being angry that someone would have the gull to question him at all. Sorry bag boy you lose on this one, no bodies buying what your selling this morning.
It's always interesting to me to see what conservatives find funny.
For some unintelligible reason, I hoped for better from you.
Have a nice weekend.
And that's modern corporatist capitalism for you, in a nutshell.
Beverly, excellent post--great way to end the week!
Incredible isn't it JohnB?
That FACT doesn't fit into their narratives that all unemployed people are lazy bums sucking off the system!
Weeper Boehner - WHERE ARE THE J O B S???
This morning's board supports the theory of Tulane Professor Melissa Harris-Perry (where's she been hiding out lately, anyway?) regarding the existence of something she calls white "liberal electoral racism".
The comments about Herman Cain are very, very interesting.
Joe in Albany
Radio host: What’s your response to Elizabeth Warren’s comment that she didn’t take her clothes off to pay for college?
Brown: Thank God.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joeey, that sexist comment put Brownie on Emily's list.
That is not funny either.
At least Elizabeth Warren used her brain rather than sell her body
Employment is creeping up. I sure hope some of the posters beat up on O'Donnell this morning. Maybe holler 'Solyndra' or something.
I notice a lot of folks comparing the tea party rallies with what's going on with the 'occupy' rallies. Here's the deal: Tea partiers were protesting what they thought Obama MIGHT do. "Occupy' partiers are protesting wrongs already commited.
Big difference.
I am kinda surprised you all are not talking about the economic indicators showing rampant, out of control inflation. Statistics from 1996 to 2011 show a massive rate of inflation, spanning multiple administrations. After all, the New York Yankees just spent $206 million in 2011 and were unable to buy something that they bought in 1996 for $50 million...a World Series!!!
Sorry...I couldn't resist and I love seeing the Yankees knocked out of the playoffs. Congrats to the Tigers and all of their fans!!
Interesting NCAA football analogy concerning Stanford and LSU compared to Romney and Perry. Of course, does this mean that Romney is Andrew Luck and gets tons of campaign cash thrown his way? Time will tell.
Not a bad jobs report today, but certainly not great either...just kinda feels like we're driving down the highway with the cruise control set on about 55. Hopefully the economy will strengthen here soon. (OK..gonna overdose on metaphors here)
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
David Walker
Kudos to you for giving us a balanced and informative critique of the Herman Cain interview. Amazing, isn't it, how the Republican Party claims it's more pro-military than the Democrats, yet so many Republican leaders (excluding Sen. McCain) found other things to do during the Vietnam War.
Values Voter Summit?.....Well that will provide some comedy relief!
.....Each Tea Person will try to out value each other with the same ole talking points!...nothing new!
Ah, Mixed and AM - O'Donnell was just fantastic last night. In one fell swing he was able to appeal to the Feisty, Bevs of the world - you know red meat for the Libs r us crowd.
But more importantly to the non true Obama believer he highlighted how desperate team Blue is. I saw some of the interview, all of which was absolutely not related to today's issues.
But more importantly, how about Reid's gamesmanship? Fantasticly shortsighted.
We know the GOP will take the Senate back, and now the majority can shut out the minority. Seems well thought out by Reid, but again pure and simple desperation.
The GOP sought to give Obama what he wants and Reid plays games.
It can not get better.
THanks Harry, you really did it this time.
I predict he wil bak down in by mid day Monday. He has to.
The Detroit Tigers beat the Yankees last night to advance to Texas in the ALCS this weekend with Cy Young winner-to-be Justin Verlander on the mound tomorrow.
On Monday the 4-0 (Yes 4-0) Detroit Lions play the woeful Chicago Bears in the first Home Monday night football game in forever. 5-0!
____
White Collar thank goodness for sports. What we learned this week.
The NBA suspended Preseason and the season may be gone for this year but the Dallas Mavericks are still NBA Champs.
Yes my Texas Rangers won their series and will play the Detroit Tigers. Rangers on their way to the World Series, again?
Its a cool fall day 65 now high of 83. To qoute someone famous, Are you ready for some football? Texas/OU weekend at the Texas state fair as they partake in their annual Red river shoot out. Unfortunately Jerry Jones plans to cheapen the rivalry and meaning by moving the game from the historic Cotton Bowl to his Jerry's World monstrosity. My Texas Tech Red Raiders play against Rick Perry's Texas A&M Aggies. Gluttons for punishment after Wisconsin humiliated them, the University of Nebraska Lincoln will play Ohio State for their second spanking in the new Big ten.
and the Detroit Lions play my Chicago Bears. Always a great game, with the lions play of late no lead will be safe. By the way I laughed when the Cowboys crumbled against Detroit last week.
Also, glad to hear MNF will not be fouling the airwaves with Hank Jr.
First Read -- What???? Stanford vs. LSU "Luck" might play a key role here! LOL Seriously!
John B - so heard anything about the Buffett Rule being enacted? How about a draft version?
ANything at all?
Huh. Now why is that I wonder?
So John - Obama spent $500 million on Solyndra and created a negative 200 jobs. That's great right?
Kinda like saying we'll cit taxes on your business income, but raise them on your personal income. Seems a tad misguided , eh John?
David Walker
For the most part, Cain actually looked good. His answers were straight-up and he showed no fear of Mr. O'Donnell. In that respect, he is clearly superior to his Republican counterparts. In the end though, Cain exposed himself as a liar and completely out of touch with reality.
David Walker I totally disagree. This man is going around calling black people brainwashed and the government can't do anything. Yet, he like the other uncles toms, Justice Thomas and Allen West fed from the trough of the government due to civil rights.
The key words in the interview were "my father told me not to start troublr. Can you see the hypocrisy? HurriCAINE wants to return Blacks to the republican party which cares very little for blacks, gays, and other minorities in regards to voting; particularly.
This is what Huricane is
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Runaways_Liberal_Plantation.gif
That's right he is modern slave cathcers
The part you missed Joe is when Elizabeth Warren said "I didn't take my close off to pay for my education" like Scott Brown did. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Grimey. Caps open up this weekend. Pundit's are saying Philly is the team to beat this year should be some good competition. I say the Caps beat 'em. Hope springs eternal at the beginning of every season.
Put the mask back on, Bev.
What's underneath isn't pretty.
Cain and West are both being used by the Tea People to deride blacks......
Better to have those two out front...spewing the hate than any other Tea Candidate!
...kinda Black on Black and those two don't mind doing the dirty work of the Tea People!
Oh my, Bev. "uncle Toms?"
Yeah, see thing is when you look at how blacks are doing as compared to other groups, Cain's points have merit.
Say Bev. what is the current percentage of black households that are fatherless? What is the % of the prison population do blacks represent, and how disproportionate is that?
How many illigitimate children do black leaders like Rev. AL and Jesse Jackson have, and how many You tube clips are there of them spouting hateful racist statements?
Given this, explain to me what exactly an Uncle Tom is, and why it is negative. Or should black youth emulate Jackson and Sharpton?
After all according to them Obama has done nothing for blacks. Doesn't seem a fair sentiment, does it Bev.?
@Grimey
I'm going to have to flag you for hate speach.
And can you lighten up over Warren/Brown? She made a joke in the debate about keeping her clothes on. He jabbed back with 'Thank Goodness'. Both jokes and a harmless bit of banter. If this get blown out of proportion any more then we have lost our sense of humor. The real pity is that they both should be senators and that clown Kerry should retire.
JUDGE joe -- Really you find that funny???? Seriously???
IR...how's it going? I am fired up for the Caps this season. Just hope it isn't another early playoff flame out. I already have tickets to the first game they play against the Panthers down here in Florida. My Ovechkin jersey is ready!! :-)
Alan, NJ...sorry. I'm an Orioles fan and our season is usually over right about 5 minutes after the first pitch of the year. So, all I have is to root against the Yanks. Longing for a time when we can be competitive again. Tough game for Yanks fans last night though...sooooo many missed opportunities.
Disagree. The part about the 9-9-9 plan was absolutely related to today's issues.
But O'Donnell waited too long to start that discussion, and he ridiculed the plan even before he asked Cain about it.
Meanwhile, Cain, who bills himself as some kind of wizard mathematician, had no real answers for O'Donnell's questions about the plan, which should have sunk him right there. But by that time O'Donnell had already poisoned his own well, and no one probably even heard Cain's lame answers about that.
@ Bag Boy:
I don't think you can reasonably make a case for racism merely out of someone criticizing Cain for being a hothead. I have criticized Chris Christie repeatedly for that. We simply don't need someone who believes he should never be questioned, and reacts badly when he is, in the White House.
Vladimir Putin, among others, would have a field day with Cain. And he'll be back in power by then.
WCA, I had season tix for the Tigers and I bought the Playoff package. So Im in the Tigers Den on the 1st base line. Promises to be a good series. I went down town to watch the people protesting with the wall street people and the people affected by the new 4 year welfare limit law, and it was amazing. I just sat on the steps and observed the entire event. I noticed that the people protesting would go off in the corner on occasion to make call on there IPhone or Blackberries and then when the protest was over......they drove off in their late model SUV's, A very unusual group of welfare and poor people!
@Mixed -- I wonder what would happen if someone on here referred to President Obama as a flavor of ice cream?? Let's say -- Neapolitan? Or Magnum???? Do you have a theory on that one?? Just asking that's all.
@Anna -- I believe this might be what MB was referring to -- although I can't speak for MB.
Like I said AM - I only saw part [baseball games]. The parts I saw were about 1963. Uh, 1963? O'donnell is a poor interviewer - he loves to play gotcha, but is horrible at it.
And hasn't Russia already had a field day with Obama?
chilled-
Would that be Rep. "Allen" West, or Princeton's Dr. "Cornel" West?
Both are African-American.
Neither is saying good things about President Obama.
Well I think Grimey. I'm jealous the only thing harder to get up here than a Redskins ticket is a Caps ticket. Go Ovie.
If you were ice cream, would your flavor be "Schweddy Balls"?
http://www.benjerry.com/flavors/feature/schweddy/
Now, how do YOU like it? (Actually, it sounds kind of delicious when you read the description.)
But I hope you don't forget that it was Sarah Palin who started this, in the first place.
Calculated how?
Agreed.
OuCH! Spanky great couple of comments. There were so many typo's in Bevs rant I had to read it 4 times just to try and make sense of it. Here in Down town Detroit we have a very big issue with single moms and 4 to 5 kids. Some of them by 3 or 4 daddy's. The thing I hear the most in the neighborhood is "who dat baby daddy?" and as a side bar my neighbors on either side of me have pregnant daughters, "14 and 16" the thing that makes it different is both girls have the same baby daddy. The young ladies lovingly refer to them as Obama babies!
Obama Lies; the Economy Dies.
It's always interesting to me to see what conservatives find funny.
For some unintelligible reason, I hoped for better from you.
Have a nice weekend.
__________________________________________
AM: She took a shot at him. He took a shot back.
I thought both lines were funny.
Lighten up, its Friday of a three day weekend and a beautiful sunny Fall day.
You have a nice weekend too.
WCA, I can't argue with a single point of your post #1.13. That was some seriously good baseball last night and I was absolutely unified in my opposition to the Yankees.
Of course, I've got to drag Mark Murray into the conversation because we've got a BORDER WAR going on tomorrow between his Texas Longhorns and my Oklahoma Sooners. Both undefeated. It is a glorious weekend to be a sports fan.
(PS. We are NOT going to mention the Royals or Chiefs, m'kay?)
I'm rooting for the Tigers to do some even greater things this post-season! PS. Who cares about Monday night? You guys get Thanksgiving EVERY year! {another side note,...I will be running (yes, you read that correctly, running) in my 2nd 5K on Thanksgiving Day. (My first 5K I walked, you gotta' start somewhere). So, wish me luck.}
Mixed Bag
chilled- Would that be Rep. "Allen" West, or Princeton's Dr. "Cornel" West?
Both!
Remember Rep West and his analogy about the 'plantation' and Harriet Tubman...he's gotta lead blacks out of...whatever, especially the Democratic Party......
The Dr. West is just plain crazy and wanting recognition.....jealous of President Obama
Now, AM-
Are you suggesting that most of the liberal/progressive criticism of candidate Cain is based on legitimate policy and agenda issues?
Hmmm...I hadn't considered that possibility. (lol)
Of course, you would then, in the interests of fairness, have to concede the obvious...that most of the criticism of President Obama by conservatives is similarly based upon the President's policies and agenda.
And that racism isn't primarily behind the criticism of either man.
I'll mull this over, but I have to tell you, AM...
That certainly isn't going to be a popular notion among the other members of Libs R Us, is it?
Feisty:
Or the other FACT that SOME of those unemployed are actually registered Republicans,...nah - no CLASS warfare there,...(PS. The Pun there is strictly intentional!)
For those ranting about the protestors doing nothing is an oxymoron in and of itself. Look, you may not like it but they are doing something......
I will agree their is no cohesive message but some actually are spot on....eliminate loopholes, clean taxes and make the multis pay taxes, etc. (There is inherent favoritism toward special interests over the average tax payer written in the tax codes.) The thing is they need to take the protest to Congress. They legislated the laws that allow this.
No, of course, I don't.
But here's what I WILL concede:
Racism isn't NECESSARILY behind the criticism of either man.
Don't always leap to that conclusion. Consider the argument first, the source secondarily, and the motives only where the argument has no merit and/or the source is suspect.
It's a lesson that both sides could benefit from. On that we surely agree.
Whether it's popular on either side is something that doesn't concern me.
Clara said:
That's awesome Clara. I'm sure you will do great! I am underway for my marathon training. January is gonna be here before I know it!!
I say he is both.
Is racism USUALLY or GENERALLY behind the criticism of either man, AM?
In your opinion?
I mean, it strikes me as obvious that it isn't NECESSARILY so.
Please be less vague, counselor...all the while considering the possibility that you're preaching to the choir when it comes to the despicable practice of accusing folks of racism when what they're actually engaged in is political dissent.
There are many ways to drive home that point, wouldn't you say?
;-)
AM --
Ah, if only people would slow down and take the time. Great advice. Maybe the 'judge" is listening.... ; )
REB-1013231
Bev
This is a direct copy from the Daily Kos with no credit given to them. So now you are the Chicago chief plagerist as well as the village idiot!! Quite a daily double.
REB, link please to validate your assertion. I seldom give DK or Huff &Puff a click.
@Spanky
How many illigitimate children do black leaders like Rev. AL and Jesse Jackson have, and how many You tube clips are there of them spouting hateful racist statements?
Given this, explain to me what exactly an Uncle Tom is, and why it is negative. Or should black youth emulate Jackson and Sharpton?
After all according to them Obama has done nothing for blacks. Doesn't seem a fair sentiment, does it Bev.?
Spanky, I see I hit your color arousal button. It's been a while; huh?
Ray-4054460
@Mixed -- I wonder what would happen if someone on here referred to President Obama as a flavor of ice cream?? Let's say -- Neapolitan? Or Magnum???? Do you have a theory on that one?? Just asking that's all.
Ray-4054460
HURRICAINE CALLED HIMSELF BLACK WALNUT ICE CREAM!!!
Herman Cain is christening himself as the black walnut ice cream of the presidential race. In multiple interviews, Cain is using the ice cream flavor as a metaphor for his campaign. On Fox and Friends
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/herman-cain-refers-to-himself-as-black-walnut-ice-cream/
SEE???? The video is above.
David, that was an incredibly misleading characterization of Cain's 999 plan. You certainly didnt tell the whole story nor explain it accurately. You have to start with the premise that Cain's plan completely replaces the current federal individual and corporate tax systems including payroll taxes. Its replaced by a 9 percent flat individual tax rate without any deductions except for charitable deductions, a 9% flat corporate rate and a 9% federal sales tax. You provided an editorial opinionated version of his plan which skewed the conclusions. Lets discuss reality. People who currently pay 7.55 in payroll taxes PLUS a federal income tax would no longer be subject to BOTH taxes. So its not true to say a person's social security tax or its funding would get impacted if the new system collected as much revenue in the past. An individual's individual income tax rate would only go up if such person was paying zero income tax at the moment and even then it would only go up by 1.5%. Its irrelevant whether the corporation is funding its share of the current system as long as the total revenue is the same to fund social security and medicare. Your conclusions are incorrect and misleading.
The other part of the equation that you totally and I believe intentionally didnt address is that by changing the corporate rate to 9% with a flat tax so companies like GE could not escape without paying any tax, the US would now have a huge competitive advantage over every other nation in terms of selling cost of its goods. That alone would be a huge jobs creation and a real tangible incentive to get the economy moving. You also ignored the sales tax which would offset the loss in federal payroll and income tax revenue by taxing consumption. Although a sales tax would obviously hit everyone including the lower income classes, its certainly not regressive like the lottery, in absolutel dollars, the wealthy would pay the largest portion because they consume more. However, the current contribution distribution would obviously change.
Personally, and now I will opine in a way that doesnt distort the facts David. I dont like the national sales tax as I think that will have a huge negative impact on consumption on the economy and I dont trust congress in keeping it simple and easy. By the time they were done with it, there would be so many exemptions for food, clothing, medical care etc that the national sales tax rate would be 15% and I dont trust congress from constantly raising the rate instead of reviewing spending needs. I do think that making the federal individual and corporate tax rates low will be a huge economic boost offset by a bad sales tax idea.
Lawrence O'Donnell's interview with Herman Cain was pretty good. I think one of the things overlooked by those who criticized some of his questions regarding civil rights and his mililtary service was that Lawrence was trying to point out things Cain wrote in his book and how those things seem counter to the reality of his roots, where he grew up and went to school. There's a "holier than thou" attitude with Cain that came across clearly by his response to all the questions. While Lawrence may have gone a step too far regarding why Cain did not get involved in the civil rights movement, the broader point I think Lawrence was trying to make was than Cain speaks as if he achieved his success without any help, he claims blacks are brainwashed into supporting democrats--that was my takeaway from Lawrence asking those questions. Cain could have diffused that by replying that without those who did, he wouldn't have achieved the success he has--point, set, match. Cain said more republicans than democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act which is true, he ignores that after that vote, the party positions and politicians changed places--many repubs became dems and the dixiecrats became republicans. As LBJ said, the democrats had lost the south for probably 50 years. Lawrence questioned military service for one reason, many republicans make that charge against President Obama. My only criticism is what a couple others said, I wish the 9-9-9 had been first.
Not every interview goes exactly as planned--just ask Rachel Maddow when she tried to interview Rand Paul and it got stuck on one question.
I know to whom I'm, preaching, sir.
I'm just hoping that others are listening.
Indeed, there are. Or should be.
But modern discourse depends so much on scoring points for quick and clever snideness -- of which I am probably more-than-occasionally guilty, myself -- that sometimes the other ways, which require actual thought and consideration, get left behind.
Steeler Fan-380417
"Steve Jobs and Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth died Wednesday. Both were historical figures for two different reasons. Mr. Jobs envisioned a world where every person was technologically connected--he made that happen. Reverend Shuttlesworth envisioned a world where every person, regardless of the color of their skin, would be treated with dignity, respect and as equals--he helped make that happen."
Great losses for our nation this week as we say farewell to two exceptional Americans.
Steeler Fan
That is so true. Here's a picture I got from the Obama Photo Diary. It was so beautiful it broke tears to my eyes.
2008: Fred Shuttlesworth watches the results of the historic presidential election from his hospital bed at St. Vincents Hospital in Birmingham. Shuttlesworth watched the returns with his wife Sephira and close friend Cathy Crenshaw.
http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/large_shutts110508.jpg?w=453&h=295
=====================================================================
When the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against segregated busing in Montgomery, Alabama, Shuttlesworth rallied the membership of a group he established in May 1956 — the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights — to challenge the practice of segregated busing in Birmingham
Shuttlesworth also helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, with King and other civil rights leaders.
Shuttlesworth’s efforts weren’t without a price: his home was bombed on Christmas Day in 1956, but he and his family were not injured.
He was, however, hurt in 1957 when he was beaten with chains and whips as he sought to integrate an all-white public school.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/us/obit-rev-fred-shuttlesworth/
AM-
You did not answer my question, counselor...hopefully, merely an oversight.
I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to respond to such an innocuous query.
Is racism USUALLY or GENERALLY behind criticism of Mr. Cain and/or President Obama?
In your opinion?
Again...I'm well aware that it isn't NECESSARILY the case.
That is stating the obvious. Whatever you may imagine, you needn't state the obvious...not to me, anyway.
But, do you believe that it's USUALLY or GENERALLY the case?
Kirk:
I specifically addressed only portions of Cain's ridiculous plan. There was no intent to mislead. However, I'll directly address the points you raise.
The current withholding rate - forget the existing cuts - is 7.65%. Caps are not relevant here, because we aren't talking about people making more than 100K. It is a statistical fact that both Social Security and Medicare cannot be sustained at the current rate of contribution. Per Cain's plan, the actual contribution is now basically cut by half, because the employer no longer contributes. Thus, even if the remaining 1.35% of our hypothetical $8.00 hourly worker goes to Social Security and Medicare, the trust fund will be depleted at a much faster rate than now.
Indeed, our hypothetical worker is actually taking home LESS than before. Now, he goes shopping, and with Cain's incredibly regressive 9% sales tax, he sees his purchasing power further reduced. No biggie. It's ridiculous to imagine that a working person should require food, shelter, and other such trivialities. This working citizen's effective purchasing power has been reduced to about $6.50 hourly - about $13,500 annually.
With the inevitable cuts in federal assistance to state and muni governments, certainly their tax bites will increase, including their own sales taxes. I don't care how you slice it, dice it, twist it, spin it, warp it, or lie about it, our hypothetical worker CANNOT afford to live in this country. Cain's proposal places our worker BELOW a subsistence level.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so I'll just get angry. It is sheer idiocy to imagine that this worker will make charitable contributions. It is sheer idiocy to imagine that he will have any sort of voice in the political arena. On the one hand, we are watching overt efforts to eliminate voting rights for those who might have a leftward lean in their thinking. On the other hand, we have people so wealthy they can buy government even more easily than before.
No, of course Big Money and Megabuck Monstrocorp won't hire lobbyists to gut income tax reforms on themselves. They crave fairness. They adore democracy. That's horse crap and you know it. Even 9% is too much for these bastards. Then there's the question of whether they will even continue to do business in this country. If demand is down now, where do you suppose it will be when working folks have nothing to spend?
Would you please explain to us how increasing GE's costs will give them a huge cost advantage? Damn it man, you guys want it both ways.
I have distorted NOTHING. This is arithmetic, plain and simple, and the fact is you've run into someone who can handle them magical number things. It's not raining. You're pissing on my leg.
The $8.00 an hour has NOT been subject to FICA, FICA Med, AND income tax. Indeed, I've listened to the right-wing idiots bitch about those folks NOT paying income taxes. What's it going to be this week? 47% don't pay? 51% don't pay. What the hell has the lottery got to do with this. The lottery is not regressive. It is a game. It is voluntary. Please stop pissing on my leg.
Cain's 9-9-9 Plan will not and cannot work. The numbers are not there. It IS a plan to destroy Social Security and Medicare. It is not a fiscal program, it's a fiscal pogrom.
I have shown time and again that voting Republican - at least in these times - means voting for suicide. A vote for Cain means putting suicide on a fast track.
Thanks, Grimey, my goal is to run a marathon before I'm 50. The back surgery was a setback; but now I am moving onward and upward. Only 5 more years to train! LOL,...my 3rd 5K will be in Santa Fe with my BFF - and a GF weekend,...
Good luck with your marathon,...I'm cheering for you! No pulled muscles!
Blaming the poor for just about any problem is a pretty ancient tactic. In the conservative, slow-developing societies of pre-Biblical times, poverty was addressed by enslaving the poor. In early modern England of the 16th and 17th centuries - in a system that persisted through the 1800's - the poor made up almost half the country's population, and were feared, incorrectly, as a drain on the nation's resources.
Sen. Orrin Hatch several times in the month of July made the same claim: "The poor need jobs! And they also need to share some of the responsibility."
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/orrin-hatch-debt-poor-rich_n_892177.html)
Other public officials have said that eliminating the minimum wage, restrictions on child labor, and other measures would "help" the poor. What they meant was that those actions would ensure sustained poverty - and its spread.
Yet blaming the poor for their condition - a frequent attitude from the right - ignores the reality of life in America now. Focus as an example on the throngs of American homeless now.
Predictably, the Bush Recession sent rates of homelessness soaring. A Federal study estimated that at least 1.5 million people joined the ranks of the homeless in 2009-2010. Another report estimates that as many as 3.5 million ae homeless right now. That includes people in shelters, short-term temporary locations, sleeping in their cars, or living on the streets, sidewalks, and other rough outdoor locations.
A substantial number of the homeless now are families displaced by unemployment, cuts in social service programs, high medical bills, and of coure the financial crash accompanied by the tanking of the housing market. One report said that one in 10 American children today is homeless.
Although the traditional view of the homeless is that they are mainly single men, unrepentant alcoholics and drug users, that is a stereotype handy for dismissing the homeless population as "human trash." Some portion of the population of homeless single men indeed are addicts, but two other key factors have greater influence - unemployment and mental health problems. A significant number of the single men are former inmates of prisons, released onto the streets without guidance or resources into a society that has come to view them as undesirables not worthy of employment.
Numerous studies and initiatives have shown that preventing homelessness is the best way to reduce the numbers. Programs to aid families and individuals to stay in their homes, to assist prisoners in their return to society, to help the unemployed from being forced onto the streets - all such efforts have been successful. But there is considerable general hostility toward those programs, both at a neighborhood level (people have to go somewhere) and among voters.
Efforts to provide some means of a safe, sanitary encampment for the homeless have been met with violence and snobbish rejection. In St. Petersburg, and in nearby Tampa, Florida, for example, such encampments were closed down by city authorities. In St. Petersburg a police crackdown ended with bulldozers destroying what little property camp residents had.
In Tampa, homeless persons trying to provide for themselves by selling newspapers at street corners, hawking bottles of ice water at major intersections, or just simply begging for handouts were forbidden to continue their activities - partly for good reason as some of the streeet vendors and beggars blocked traffic or appeared to be threatening, but primarily because their visible presence in numbers was disturbing to their better-off neighbors.
Such treatment has long been common.Professor Patricia Fumerton wrote a detailed study of homelessness, vagrancy, and itinerant labor in England during the Tudor period through the reign of William III. She found that although as much as half of the country's population consisted of both the housed and un-housed poor, their very existence so disturbed the rest of the English that quite oppressive laws were enacted.
And then, in the "Epilogue" of her study, Unsettled: The Culture of Mobility and the Working Poor in Early Modern England, Prof. Fumerton cast her view upon her own times. "We have jumped forward four hundred years and crossed an ocean, and we seem to be, oddly, back in the same place with a familiar feeling of the 'bew' about uncannily similar happenings. Americans in the late twnetieth into the twenty-first century can be surprised by an emergent economy characterized by mobility, instability and job diversity, and find 'news' in the fact that most of the poor within that economy actually work.
"Surprised by its own 'new,' mobile workforce, early modern England ... focused not so much on the poor as on the unsettled." She points out that the authorities cracked down not only on unemployed vagrants, but basically anyone who shifted from job to job, and usually was homeless. Early in her book she recounted how a peddler was whipped from town to town, while another man who had to shift jobs between parishes (the basic unit of political structure at the time) discovered his wife and baby were being foced to move because he wasn't around - and the next town over didn't allow her to rent a home, either.
Whether the working poor or the entirely disconnected homeless, the lowest of America's classes is the object of scorn and rejection. It's a pattern as old as city streets.
I didn't answer this because I don't have sufficient empirical evidence on which to base a generalized conclusion of any kind, nor do I even know how someone would go about gathering it.
Can you draw conclusions about a person based on the body of things the person says, as well as what they do? Probably. That's how people choose their friends and associates.
But who can claim to be privy to that kind of data about entire groups or classes of people?
Do I know what every liberal here thinks? Of course, not. Do you know what every conservative thinks? I suspect not, as well.
The whole thing seems to be an exercise in speculation, and futile.
A person can only know what's in his or her own heart, and if he or she gets really lucky, he or she may, over time, get to know what's in the hearts of those who are closest.
People should look to their own hearts first. I know what's in mine. You know what's in yours.
It's a dangerous business to pretend to know what's in the hearts of others.
Not to mention that the employer, which no longer has to pay its share, actually makes a larger profit, on which, of course, it doesn't want to pay additional taxes to make up the difference.
But I haven't yet heard Cain or anyone else suggest that the employer share even a part of its savings with its employees who are now required to pay more.
Why am I not surprised by this?
No mistake about it.
This is literally a plan to rob from the relative poor and give to the relatively rich, and not very cleverly disguised.
David, I am not pissing on your leg and before you can be against a plan you have to describe it correctly and you have to look at all parts. I have no idea of whether its intention is to guy social security thats your opinion, I am just looking at it objectively first and then trying to draw conclusions. Why are you trying to draw conclusions before you actually know what it does? If a democratic congressional person proposed this my guess is that you would give it an equal measure before your opined. If its true, that his 9/9/9 plan generates an equal amount of revenue that the current individual, corporate and payroll taxes do today combined, then your opinion regarding gutting social security carries no weight and your conclusions regarding its funding are irrelevant. You may believe that congress may gut it after the fact but if it generates the current amount of income I dont get your conclusions. Can we both agree that if the revenue generated by his plan is the same, it has nothing to do with gutting social security? Entitlement spending and spending overall by the government is a seperate issue that needs to be addressed but its not tied to how we generate revenue.
Next, whether it disproportionately impacts different segments of society, I completely agree with you that this needs to be addressed. I mention lotterys because at least in my state, they are the equivalent of a tax and when they do lottery ticket revenue by zipcode, its clear that lottery revenue is incredibly regressive because more tickets by far are sold in low income zip codes than high income zip codes so both on a percentage and absolute dollar basis its regressive. Thats not true for sales tax, its not regressive in absolute dollars. If a wealthy person buys a $50,000 dollar car at 9% he is paying an additonal $4500 for the car while the $8 dollar an hour working is buying a used car for $5,000 is paying $450 dollars. Thats a huge difference. The sales tax is only regressive in the sense that is changes the current proportion of overall revenue generated by the different income categorys. The person who pays zero income tax, pays payroll tax and now has to replace paying zero income tax with a sales tax is certainly paying more overall revenue to the government than they do now. But in terms of absolute dollars its a blip. There are ways to deal with that by exempting consumables that are necessary so if your $8 dollar an hour person is using it for rent, food and other necessities those kinds of items could be exempt from tax but if he is buying a flat screen TV or Wii then he is subject to the tax. That would likely require the rate to move up greater than 9%.
As for corporate taxes and the huge benefits by lowering the tax rate, you dont disagree do you? Your right it doesnt impact GE although I would argue that they are paying 38% corporate tax on overall earnings either overseas or in the US at some point its just timing. They accrued the taxes if you check their financial statements they just havent paid cash taxes yet because of loss carryforwards and green energy tax credits. But you cant make your argument on one corporation you have to use the whole and it certainly would help the whole. There is no fundamental disagreement by ANY economist on that.
First off, you guys also talk out of both sides of your mouth. First, is social security a contractual retirement plan or not? You argue that it is so that payroll tax your $8 dollar an hour worker pays is not a tax its their contribution for their future benefits. If its a tax, then stop complaining that social security cant be adjusted as its just welfare at that point or a government entitlement. You have to be consistent in your views too.
Now personally, I dont like it but not for your reasons. I dont think it has anything to do with social security or medicare. I dont think for a second that congress has the will power to make any radical changes besides a few things around the edges so the 999 plan is really just a replacement revenue plan thats it. But I dont like the national sales tax and again not for the same reasons as you. You can fix the regressive aspect pretty easily. I hate it because it taxes consumption and there is no reason to be less than transparent in revenue generation. I would take the 9/9/9 plan and turn it into a 20/20 plan. Eliminate the sales tax and bump up the flat individual and corporate rates and eliminate all deductions and loopholes. Maybe on the individual side you create a floor that says that anyone making less than some number doesnt pay any tax (but I would include all government assistance in this number to eliminate the games playing) and then you could even have a couple of rates and make it progressive. But you dont have to have a very high rate because all the deductions are gone and social engineering and its completely fair.
I think your views of the GOP color any objective analysis you do which is unfortunate. Cain's plan deserves more as its bold, original and unique and deserves more than partisan opinionated conclusions whether you like it or not.
David and AM -- About the only good thing that comes out of these tax "plans" is we have people talking about the real issues which in my humble opinion is that the scales have tilted so far toward special interests and favoritism is just may force the legislators to own up to their role in the current unrest 99% of us are feeling. They actually might have to get to work fixing the whole boondoggle.
Kinda like the healthcare issues most Americans are experiencing....at least the other side now agrees there is a problem with healthcare and affordability. Now we see they agree there is a problem in our tax system. They can no longer turn away and pretend nothing is wrong.
Anna Molly-
Since you cannot answer in the affirmative, it really sounds as though you don't believe it.
Because, to believe that most of the criticism of either man is primarily race-based is to deny the progress the U.S. has made in promoting racial and social justice.
Also, if you believe that...even after President Obama was elected with a larger majority than either George W. Bush or Bill Clinton in any of their victorious presidential campaigns (AND with a larger percentage of white votes than Democratic presidential candidates Al Gore or John Kerry received)...well, it strikes me that you actually ARE agreeing with the theory expounded by Professor Melissa Harris-Perry in The Nation.
Conservatives have far more legitimate, policy-based, agenda-driven ideological reasons to criticize President Obama than liberal/progressives like your own Joan Walsh, or Glenn Greenwald, or Cenk Uygur, or Jane Hamsher do.
President Obama is a liberal/progressive...just as they are.
Conservatives SHOULD be expected to oppose many of his policies and much of his agenda, on what they...WE regard as the merits.
Taking that into account, it's somewhat surprising that no one on the left accused white liberal/progressives of "liberal electoral racism" before Professor Melissa Harris-Perry got around to doing so.
Many of the comments about Herman Cain this morning weren't encouraging, to say the least.
Maybe Harris-Perry's on to something.
Or, maybe the left should stop calling conservatives racists when they level criticism at President Obama...while prominent liberal/progressive voices are doing the exact same thing, Anna Molly.
Anna Molly, since most corporations include the employer's portion of the combined payroll taxes in their calculation of overall benefits paid to employees, I think as part of this plan, they should mandate that businesses have to increase the amount of such person's salary or compensation by the amount of saved payroll taxes. I am in favor of reducing corporate income taxes in a manner that improves overall competitiveness and fairness but not when the savings are purelly payroll and benefits driven. On this issue we have complete common ground.
Do you really think the motivations behind failing to discuss this issue are so nefarious? I doubt they even thought of it but if did and saw it as a way of putting more money into corporate hands, I would be very disappointed. In this situation though I agree with you. I think you give politicians too much intellectual credit.
You should read Susskind's book and not about the salacious aspects of this administration but more for the discussions before Obama was in office but elected where Bernanke, Paulsen, Summers , Geitner were trying to explain TARP, the bank bailouts and the seriousness of the financial collapse. Whats clear to me is that the people we have in charge of keeping us financially safe are economic morons (although maybe thats too tough). Maybe just incredibly financially ignorant but we trust them to do the right thing. Trying to teach Pelosi, Reid and McCain the basics of how a bank works is mind boggling. We are seeing it now with the Dick Durbin, Warren failure to understand how bank fees work with BofA. It has nothing to do with hidden fees etc and all to do with rational economic behavior. They cant regulate market based behavior without regulating it in the whole and I dont trust politicians at all with basic understanding. And these are the people who are voting on incredibily important issues regardless of party affiliation. My criticism cuts both ways and I am not trying to single out democrats as whenever I hear McCain or Lindsey Graham on economic matters I just cringe.
Dont Carry it all--I couldnt agree more. With respect to both taxation and healthcare, this is what I have been saying all along. Stop the class warfare and immediate negative reactions to GOP ideas and conservatives should stop the immediate dismissal of Obamacare, the individual mandate or the feelings of tax inequality regardless of whether factually true or not. People can almost universally agree that our current method of generating tax revenue in all of its various forms is broken, plagued with fraud and abuse and full of special interests. They can all almost universally agree that the current method of healthcare delivery to 15% of this country or 45 million people isnt cost effective or of the quality this country should be providing this group of people and that the overall delivery system for the remainder is not cost effective in the long term. If we could say that Obamacare has some parts that we want to keep and then address head on the other two, we could probably come up with some bipartisan ideas. The problem is that it doesnt really address the cost effectiveness side of healthcare and partially and in a very unpopular way addresses some delivery issues.
As for tax reform, we really need some leadership and to me what I like about Cain's plan is that he was willing to put it out there with all its warts. I agree instead of shooting the messenger maybe there is debate and discussion that can be intiated with bold fresh and unique ideas like this.
Kirk:
First, knock off the "you guys" crap. You're getting MY opinion, not a party line or talking point.
History clearly shows a virtually continuous right-wing assault on Social Security. Paul Ryan's Plan to gut Social Security? Virtually every Republican signed on. That consensus is nothing new. The net effect of Cain's plan is to gut Social Security. The numbers he proposes can yield no other result.
Let me point out that you have not shown my arithmetic to be in error. If employers no longer match the employee's contribution, revenues must necessarily decrease. You do not answer any questions or respond to genuine issues. You simply ignore them. My numbers are absolutely correct and beyond dispute. Prove me wrong.
If revenues under Cain's plan were the same as generated now, the trust fund will still eventually fail. That nasty fact aside, the reality is that Cain's plan will in no way raise the revenues necessary to equal today's contributions.
Why do you so carefully avoid the example of the worker who is clearly bludgeoned under Cain's plan? That's the real issue here.
Never mind.
Again Kirk, the only thing good that comes from these "tax plans" all the candidates are coming forth with is that they by default agree there is a huge problem. I do not like flat taxes, VAT's or anything resembling them.
My opinion is a 3 tier progressive rate that is clean and reflects the average effective rates if not slightly below because in my opinion it will capture more evaders. Start that tier so as not to burden the low income earners and that will give them a helping hand up. In other words start the whole tax tier somewhere at $12000 or $15000 level and exempt any thing below. Tax all other income, such as capital gains, as regular income.
Don't forget it's Herman Cain you're talking about here, Kirk. By his own admission, he's a math wizard.
I'd really like to agree with you on this, seeing as you have agreed with me on my point, but if that's not what Cain was trying to do, then a math wizard should have been able to see it, and once it's pointed out to him, he ought to amend his plan accordingly.
If he doesn't, then we can probably draw the conclusion that he doesn't want to.
Not for my taste. I've said it many times before. But, like me, you may also want to include Bernanke, Paulsen, Summers, and Geithner in your indictment. I fault the President for assembling around him the same buffoons whose thinking created the mess in the first place. If they couldn't explain it so the average person could understand it, maybe it signaled that they didn't understand it, either.
I got the same impression from one of my previous investment advisers. He didn't have a clue, but he was driving a better car than I was. And I was paying for it.
I don't think that's just coincidental. If anyone out there knows what to do, then why aren't we doing it?
David, I am not avoiding anything and I have no idea if the math works. I am responding based on the idea that the total revenue under Cain's plan equals the total revenue currently being realized with payroll, corporate and individual taxes. We are being told its the same, you are saying its not. I cant dispute that because thats not what we are discussing. But for purposes of our discussion, I asked you to assume that whoever scorecarding it is right. With his plan, it doesnt matter whether the employer's portion disappears because we are being told that it is being replaced by revenue from the national sales tax or a combination of all 3. Whats more relevant is Anna Molly's point is whether the bill forces businesses to increase the salaries for their share which I would be firmly on the side that they do. I dont get your points because math has nothing to do with this issue at least until we discover that total revenue under his plan doesnt cover current revenue. Again whether the trust fund fails in the future has nothing to do with Cain's plan as thats just a matter of allocating government revenue appropriately.
As for the continuous right wing assault, thats an opinion based conclusion that has nothing to do with Cain's plan. Plenty of people agree with you and plenty of people dont but thats a debatable topic that I wasnt addressing. Your making a partisan conclusion unrelated to the proposal he has made. It may be your opinion and not a talking point but its the constant drum beat I hear from your side no different than the constant drum beat that Obama is a socialist. The reality is somewhere definitely in between but lets save that discussion and stick to Cain. You realize that your conclusion is no different than me saying Obamacare is bad because it will force us all into universal health care and its real intention is to gut health care delivery to the 85% who currently enjoy good health care benefits. So purely on its merits and ignoring what you believe the GOP agenda to be, do you agree that the Cain plan is just a different form of tax reform? You should criticize its impact not the math.
I didnt avoid that worker and in fact included him in my example. I even acknowledged that if such person pays zero income tax today but is paying payroll tax (which dont forget you dont want it gutted because its his contribution to his retirement plan remember) that his overall payments to the government that will constitute its new revenue source will go up. You are focusing on one very small segment of the revenue paying populace and thats also not fair. But yes his taxes go up but thats easily fixable as I explained. You just exempt necessities from the national sales tax and he will be fine. My guess is that besides the bottom income quintile, the remaining brackets stay relatively the same. However, I would bet that the lower to middle income earners come out ahead, the upper middle class and working wealthy with families who tend to consume alot will have their taxes go up overall and I would be the millionaires break even. The ones that consume alot will increase their taxes but the retirees that live off retirement income will probably pay alot less .
By the way did you actually read what I wrote because your response didnt seem to be really responsive. Your mind is made up and my guess is that your not reading with comprehension in mind.
Why? Because they were critical? If you think that, you're obviously not spending enough time reading what your own side writes.
Granted, however, there were a few that raised my eyebrows.
In my own opinion, based solely on what I know about myself, no.
I take your point, Bag Boy, and I agree, with some exceptions. But if you're repeating it just for the purpose of getting me run off the farm, then you're probably already there.
And on the subject of eyebrow raising, you may also want to consider monitoring a little more closely the remarks made by some posters on your own side.
Wow Anna Molly we are on the same page again. Just because I read his book doesnt mean I agree with anything Susskind or defend those guys. I would agree that all of these guys except for maybe Paulsen has alot to blame and I wouldnt be surprised if Paulsen isnt a bad guy either. I really dont like Bernanke as I feel he is very political and not transparent at all. I promise you I wont defend them either. Maybe because the Susskind book in its descriptions seems so real and that it indicts members of both parties was disturbing in how these politicians are more concerned with how it looks to their party and base rather than whats best for the country. It appears as if they dont even try to understand.
As for Cain, you could be right--I just dont know enough about him and didnt really bother to learn. Maybe I should. I have never seen anything discussed about the employer's portion and a discussion as to whether those savings are expected to go into the pockets of the employees or the employer. But you make a good point. Still I give him credit for creating something interesting to discuss.
As for investment advisors I am not sure I trust anyone but myself which is probably why I am not also driving that car or going to be impacted by the millionaires tax ha.
Dont carry it all--I also dont like the sales tax as I think it will exaggerate economic cycles and impact consumer demand in an exaggerated manner but thats just me. I agree with your simple 3 tiered progressive tax and depending on the rate, I might or might not agree on the capital gains or dividends tax. Taxing investment income is just a second tax on the same earnings and so many retirees live on such income types but if the rate top rates on low enough then it probably is irrelevant. As for capital gains, I agree when it comes to some things like sales of public stock but I think real investment in real estate, plant and equipment, family businesses where the income was already taxed once and now gets taxed again on sale is unfair. I am not talking hedge fund managers.
Kirk:
Your words, "You should criticize its impact not the math."
That's the problem. I do read for comprehension. What you wrote is incomprehensible.
Deficits don't matter. Math doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. The only thing that matters is making sure the rich get richer and if we starve the populace into submission - so be it. That's why we have cannon fodder. That's why we have wonderful terms like "collateral damage".
You bet my mind is made up on this subject. The numbers, the math, the arithmetic says the plan won't work. Math isn't an opinion.
Again I was completely comprehensible. Why are you so rigid in having a debate with a fiscal conservative. Again, I thought we were discussing the merits of Cain's tax plan not partisan talking points regarding whether the rich are getting richer and silly comments like the populace starving into submission. If you want to talk collateral damage and the 50 years of economic racism by the democratic party through its progressive policies regarding getting minorities and the low income hooked like herion to government entitlements, we can discuss that somewhere else. But I thought this was about Cain.
What part is incomprehensible? Let me take an easy math example for you then. Lets say the government is collecting 1,000 dollars in payroll taxes (both employee and employer paid), 5,000 dollars in federal income tax and 1,000 in corporate income taxes and for purposes of discussing Cains plan we are being told and so I am assuming for purposes of this discussion that his plan will generate 7,000 in revenue. Thats what we are assuming so I dont get why you dont comprehend and then discuss the merits rather than go off on partisan rants. You always tell me about facts, well here is your perfect example, where all I wanted to discuss were the facts and not the opinions. If you dont believe Cain's plan will create $7,000 in revenue then he needs to make it a 10/10/10 plan but thats not the point we are discussing right?
How can your mind be made up on a plan you dont even know and are making conclusions on wrong facts? If it could be shown to you that revenue is the same and that exemptions could be made for your $8 dollar an hour worker, what part of this dont you like?
Anna Molly-
I'm not trying to get you run out of anywhere...although the fact that you're concerned that you might be (presumably for saying the wrong thing) is revealing. lol. I come here and say the "wrong things" every day.
You keep missing the point, which is:
The overwhelming majority of the criticism of President Obama is policy-based, not race-based...whether it's coming from conservatives OR liberal/progressives. Likewise for Herman Cain.
To argue otherwise is, as I've said, a corrosively divisive and brutally cynical ploy.
When you call out criticism of President Obama...from the left OR the right...as being primarily motivated by racism, the intent is the same without regard to the ideological views of those targeted.
The goal is to suppress legitimate dissent, and to bully people into silence.
It's wrong.
The overwhelming majority of the criticism of President Obama is policy-based, not race-based...whether it's coming from conservatives OR liberal/progressives. Likewise for Herman Cain.
That's probably a fair statement. But there's no way to prove it, one way or another, and you know that.
Sure, it is.
By the way, there's a conservative poster on one of the forward threads who made the blanket statement that the real racists are liberals.
Really?!
If you're true to your convictions, you'll call him/her out, just like you've been calling us liberals out.
Because that's wrong, too. Isn't it?
That's what it's come to, AM.
Consider it the inevitable consequence of the repeated, cynical playing of the race card.
And it wasn't conservatives who started us down this road.
We were the original targets, and now prominent liberal/progressives are reaping what they sown, and are being falsely accused of racist thought by other liberals!
Madness, AM.
And virtually no one here at lefty First Read, not the hosts nor the overwhelming majority of the guests, has much to say about it.
Don't question my convictions, AM. I've been talking about it for the last two weeks...mostly to myself. Obviously, I haven't been equivocal enough for you counselor, so here goes again:
Leveling charges of racism in an effort to silence legitimate political dissent is reprehensible no matter who is doing it.
Can you hear me now?
Of course.
You have such a way with words, Bag Boy, how could I not?
Have a good weekend, sir.
Might as well give up, DW. You've discovered you're having a "reasonable" discussion with someone who "reasonably" insists on sticking to facts, "reasonably" assumes the Cain plan will collect enough revenue to run the government even when it won't, then "reasonably" adds;
As you can see "reasonable" is just a pose assumed for the purposes of deflecting criticism from radical Conservative positions.
John b, the whole discussion is based on the assumption that the revenue is the same and how many times do I have to say that. You guys can't be that dense. If the revenue isn't there then Cain needs to call it the 10 plan but that wasn't our discussion so your blind support is very weak. Furthermore, pulling my response comment to his extreme comment is typical you. Can't argue substance so you use out of context comments to try and support your extreme agenda. Good job you should be proud.
It isn't. That's the whole point.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2789392/posts
Sorry, this particular effort to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and middle class is dead before it even hits the ground. The math doesn't work even in Cain's vivid imagination, and can only get worse in the real world.
John, you article makes editorial assumptions that the Cain plan wont work. The whole premise behind our discussions were that the aggregate revenue were the same. We were intentionally not having a conversation on the math because to fix it you just make it the 10/10/10 plan. Can you explain how his plan though balances the budget on the backs of the poor and middle class? Seems to be that it would quite the opposite. In fact, most VAT taxes or sales taxes raise much more revenue from the wealthy because they consume so much more on an absolute dollar basis and for the poor, necessities such as food, health care etc can be exempt from the tax. So I cant for the life of me understand how someone who is paying effective income tax rates of 10% or below plus payroll taxes doesnt come out way ahead. Doesnt this fix your Buffett's secretary problem in that she now only pays a total of 9% plus the sales tax which has to be alot less than Buffet will pay.
1) You start by ignoring the fact that the 9-9-9 plan WON'T BE REVENUE NEUTRAL. You paper over this very important point by saying "just make it the 10-10-10 plan."
2) Then you just state without any basis in reality that sales tax is a progressive tax when instead it's the classic textbook definition of a regressive tax.
3) You tacitly acknowledge point (2) by stating that necessities "can be" exempt from the sales tax. Yes, they "can be." In that case the tax becomes what -- 12-12-12? 15-15-15? 18-18-18?
4) At that point the income tax plus the sales tax actually becomes a significant tax increase on the middle class.
5) Which is in fact inevitable because corporate taxes would be reduced and capital gains/carried interest taxes eliminated.
6) Since the very wealthy earn the vast majority of their income in the form of capital gains/carried interest you've ensured a heavily regressive tax policy before you even get out of the gate.
It isn't a matter of making assumptions the Cain plan won't work...the Cain plan won't work.
"And that's the way it is...." this week.
Rick Perry commented that Warren Buffett just "didn't get that higher taxes and too much regulation" is the problem. Ha! That can stand on its own merits for economic wisdom.
Mayor Bloomberg warned there could be riots in the streets if Congress doesn't get serious about creating jobs and fixing the economy. He's right, no riots yet but thousands are in the streets. GOP, listen up, stop playing politics with the lives of people and with the economic health of the country--get to work, the 99% are headed to Washington DC.
Dick Cheney said the death of al-Awlaki meant President Obama should apologize to them. Huh? Cheney and Bush stopped fighting their war on terror and headed to Iraq to fry bigger fish and he thinks President Obama should apologize to them. Fat chance. Cheney and Bush owe America an apology.
Hank Williams, Jr., was bounced from Monday Night Football. Williams compared President Obama to Hitler along with other disrespectful remarks. Williams apologized with the "IF" I offended anyone...not IF, Hank, you did and you spit on the American flag with such a comparison. No President, R or D, should be compared to Hitler who systematically exterminated 6 million Jews. BTW, Hank, Boehner is no Netanyahu either. Cheers to ESPN for firing him.
The Occupy Wall Street is well into its third week and is spreading nationwide. Give these 99% a cheer; in NYC they are not allowed to use a bull horn so they created the "people's mic" where the attendees repeat in unison the words of the speaker so all can hear.
The MSM was forced to cover the OWS protests finally. This is a genuine grassroots, apolitical effort not backed by Koch Brothers, Dick Armey or anyone else yet it took two weeks to hear about it on the nightly news. The media fell all over itself at the mere mention of a Tea Party rally but ignore the real thing.
Rick Perry has run into trouble by calling opponents of his Texas Dream Act "heartless". He is being heckled at campaign stops where signs saying "Endorsed by Mexico" have appeared. As they say, the truth hurts. Too bad the truth hurts the one who speaks it.
Sarah Palin accused FOX News of providing "misinformation". The queen of distortion and lies accuses her employer of being less than truthful. What can one say to that except for once she spoke the truth.
Florida again jumped the primary/caucus shark to move their date up. South Carolina followed their lead. Losing half their delegates the last time wasn't enough punishment. How about any state jumping in line after dates are agreed to lose ALL their delegates making them totally irrelevant to the nomination process. It would save the candidates cash and time by skipping them.
Iowa GOP Chair Matt Strawn said "the arrogance shown by Florida's elected leadership is disappointing but not surprising....Equally troubling is to see this petulant behavior rewarded with our National Convention." He's got a point, the RNC should move their convention to a state abiding by the original agreements.
Al Qaeda's quarterly magazine criticized Iran's Prime Minister for claiming in his UN speech that Al Qaeda didn't attack the US on 9/11. One thing about Al Qaeda, they want credit for the murder of innocents.
In New Hampshire, Rick Perry said he's open to sending American troops to Mexico to help battle the drug cartels. Oh, great; wonder if he plans to cut more from education to pay for it.
Mitt Romney and the other GOP candidates, except Jon Huntsman, will speak at the Value Voters Summit. Romney will be followed by a so-called evangelical preacher named Brian Fisher who once said the 1st Amendment does not apply to Mormons, Obama hates white people, Muslims should not be allowed into the USA, no more mosques permitted, etc etc etc. Awkward, really awkward. Faux religious hate-mongers masquerading as politics and Mitt goes there to shake the hands of those who dislike him.
Wayne LaPierre, NRA head said you can tell President Obama is coming for your guns by the way he's not coming for you guns right now. "Gun owers can't be fooled, they know that if he's re-elected, he's coming for your guns." Paranoid much?
The Ohio GOP law allowing guns in bars took affect last Friday. People can take their guns into the bars but can't drink. Now bartenders, waiters and waitresses will be acting as "Gun Monitors". Are we getting stupid or what? America is no longer the wild, wild west but the GOP behaves as if it is.
Dead-beat dad GOPer Joe Walsh said Illinois needs a gun rights protection law, "the last line of defense between us and our government is the 2nd Amendment; it protects all the rest of our rights." Ever think seriously about the twisted logic of far-right, anti-government, government is evil notions. In any other country such anti-government talk would land these folks in the slammer--no questions asked, no trial, just lock the door and throw away the key. The very government they hate and rant against is the very government that gives them the freedom to hate and rant against it.
Ron Paul said President Obama should be impeached; in fact, he would have impeached "all of 'em" he didn't agree with. Sounds like a dictator but at least he's bi-partisan.
President Obama criticized the GOP candidates for staying silent at the last debate when the audience booed a gay soldier. "You want to be Commander in Chief? You can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States even when it's not politically convenience....We don't believe in standing silent when that happens." Bravo, Mr. President!
Perry's "rock" put him in hot water this week but that was only one of his troubles. He refuses to remove the Confederate flag from public buildings and supports that flag on Texas license plates. Only Perry knows if he is a racist or just blindly and stupidly insensitive.
China warned the U.S. that passing a bill aimed at forcing Beijing to let its currency rise and fall with the markets could lead to a trade war. Great idea, let's just bring all those American jobs home and let China figure out how to deal with the unemployment left behind.
Herman Cain expressed his view about Perry's "rock" by saying it was "vile" and "racially insensitive". As usual the right-wing media mouths immediately accused Cain of playing the "race card". Sound familiar? The GOP's attitude is don't blame the alleged racist, blame the one who cried foul.
Speaker Boehner is spending $1.5 million of taxpayer money to hire a private attorney to defend DOMA because the DOJ says DOMA is unconstitutional (it is). Thanks, Boehner, for flushing $1.5 million in taxpayer money down the toilet to defend discrimination while making cuts to food programs for the poor. What a guy!
Governor Christi announced, again, that he will not seek the GOP presidential nomination. Not sure how many times he must say "I'm not ready" to convince people but apparently there are plenty of thick heads on the right and in the media.
Herman Cain offers his 9-9-9 plan for taxes. It's simple and sells but the devil is in the details. In 2010, remember the GOP ads declaring that President Obama and democrats were planning to pass a National Sales Tax--a consumption tax. Why is it that the same GOP ranting against it in 2010, are now cheering the idea of a National Sales Tax today? The entire GOP is a giant flip flopper. Wonder if King Grover approves.
Earl Ray Tomblin (D) was elected Governor of West Virginia Tuesday night. The media talking heads had all but declared a victory for the republican and a referendum on President Obama. Surprise! Silence of the lambs on Wednesday.
Karl Rove plans to raise $230 million to defeat President Obama in 2012. Over 90% of his previous donations have come from three billionaires. Thank you, SCOTUS. We wonder why Government doesn't work for the 99%; we wonder why the GOP in Congress says "NO" to helping the economy and the people--$$$ from a few to control the many. This is what the GOP means would they say they "want to take our country back".
Eric Cantor continues to support the recession and the suffering of millions of Americans. If he didn't believe recession was great, why else would he say NO to President Obama's jobs plan--it contains plenty of ideas the GOP was always for until our President supported them. Eric's a "real American".
Sarah Palin announced she won't be running for President. Only the media and her loyal fans thought she would in the first place--except Lawrence O'Donnell who had her pegged as a teaser "in it for the money".
Romney gave voters another clue as to who he really is this week. "I'm in politics after all. The truth only goes so far." He should know, truth doesn't often pass his lips. Hey, didn't he tell people a few weeks ago that he's NOT a politician, just a regular guy?
Marco Rubio, FL, said "NO" he did not want to be considered for VP by any GOP candidate. It's been a tough week for the GOP--Christie, Palin, Rubio dashed their hopes. Perry, the previous GOP knight in shining armor had not been seen in 5 days; he was hunkered down with his "rock" and Confederate flag.
Steve Jobs and Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth died Wednesday. Both were historical figures for two different reasons. Mr. Jobs envisioned a world where every person was technologically connected--he made that happen. Reverend Shuttlesworth envisioned a world where every person, regardless of the color of their skin, would be treated with dignity, respect and as equals--he helped make that happen.
Jody, another excellent and concise revue! Hail to the queen of the "week that was.." (bowing and scraping) ;-) Many thanks!
***SPRINKLING NJ NUT JOB REPELLENT***
Floyd's standing by with the back-ho just in case! ;o)
Outstanding as usual Jody!
Thanks, Cynthia's Point, Feisty and all my fans. What a week it was; left a bunch of stuff on the cutting room floor.
Jody, though I do not agree with many of your viewpoints I really enjoy your Friday summaries. Excellent!
Have a great weekend!
Excellent summation as always Jody.
Here's what else happened this week-
Obama (still) demanded that his latest honeypot be passed "right away". So, Mitch McConnell proposed the Senate vote on it.
Harry Reid blocked that move. Seems he does not have the votes.
The October polls are coming in, and they mirror last October's- which is to say, the more Obama campaigns, the lower his approval numbers go. The lower his approval numbers go, the more screechy his speeches get, so, the lower his approval numbers go.
The Fast and Furious investigation revealed thar, contrary to Holder's assertion that he had only heard about that debacle in the House hearing room, fovea minutes ago, he had at least five emails on the subject, outlining the issues Congress is investigating, dating back months before his appearance.
Holder's response to the charge of misleading congress went along the lines of 'Oh. I didn't know you meant THAT gun walking program'. (please note the single quote marks- not meant to be a direct quote).
Meanwhile, emails reveal that, right up to the day before Solyndra declared bankruptcy, Obama was pushing to give them another half a billion in taxpayer funds. Emails also reveal that career employees at OMB continually warned against gloving monies to the firm- and, finally, engaged in gallows humor about the rathole purr money was poured down.
BLS had some good news on the unemployment front- well, not the rate, which stayed at 9.1%, but it seems that 103,000 jobs were created in September! Woo Hoo! Well, until you look beyond the numbers- 45,000 of those jobs are striking Verizon workers who went back to work, and the overall is subject to next month's revision. August's jobs. Numbers were adjusted up- reflecting Minnesotta state workers coming back from furlough
Another great "And that's the way it is...." as usual Jody. Great information
Wow! For all the talk from the GOTP about their business acumen they just don't get it. The nuts on that Perry to be questioning Buffett on what's good for business. Career Politician vs Career Businessman. What a howl!
Mark in SoCal, nice to know that even one who disagrees with my views finds my weekly nutshell entertaining. Thanks and you have a nice weekend as well.
devie, hard to imagine anyone saying a highly successful man like Warren Buffett is clueless especially when the GOP's deregulate and low taxes has helped get us in this mess.
Cut myself off trying to edit Minnesota.
Steve Jobs dies, and none of the five hundred or so idiots occupying Wall Street seem to understand the irony of railing against corporations, while at the same time deifying Steve Jobs- and avidly using his products.
Rick Perry raised $17.million in seven weeks. Don't know how many kajillion dollars Obama raised- he will claim it came from little people, the media will breathlessly repeat this lie- while the list of bundlers, whose reported donations encompass wide ranges, is ignored.
Chris Christie announced he will not run for president for about the five thousandth time. Early next week, the media will begin to speculate how long Christie has to get into the race. I assume this narrative will continue until inauguration day.
At the same time, the entire MSM got drunk the night that Palin announced that she would not run.
A CBS reporter investigating Fast and Furious was screamed at by a White House aide, yelled at by a Justice Department spokeswoman- and threatened with having her press credentials taken away. Imagine a republican administration doing something like this.
Imagine any other president doing something like it.
Ah, well, another week, another couple billion in debt. And another week closer to finally ending the disaster that is the Obama administration.
Obama shelved in 2012.
Jody- looks like anther great post. Immitation is a form of flattery, isn't it? Even if it's pretty lame and thin, I would suppose. Which reminds me- Nice post, No Jo.
Kind of lame and thin, though, but it's ok- we expected that.
Another one that's fine like Frog Hair split Jody. I'll clean the Yahoo poo off your porch directly. Happy to report that due to the lack of substantial candidates and everything else we've had to hire another backhoe and the fertilizer sales are going well. Way to put a couple more rednecks back to work there Yahoo's.
Jody:
Your recaps remind me very much of TW3. They're great and they bring a smile. If I have to tell you what TW3 was, you're just a kid. If you're just a kid, that makes your recaps that much better.
Some times news is what's NOT reported. I'd like to add a few points.
It seems the Republican "Uncertainty" chant has been put on the back burner. Even Republicans are beginning to understand that it is THEIR leaders who are providing the uncertainty in our economy.
The chants of "Free market", "Free Trade", and "Evil Regulation" are hitting high decibel levels. Problem is when asked to provide a example of a "free market", or "free trade", or a "job-stfling/killing regulation", they can't come up with a single one. In fairness, Spanky did mention fences. Yeah, that's the ticket. Fences are destroying jobs.
One other news story came out about declining home ownership. This is taken by many to be a negative in our consumption economy. Funniest thing, the states leading the decline were red states. If one follows the news, it is difficult to miss the fact that the worst performances in virtually every statistically measurable area are in red states. Educational achievement comes to mind. Wow! Maybe I've stumbled onto something!
Jody----thanks as always for your recap-----I am especially moved by your closing paragraph:
"Steve Jobs and Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth died Wednesday. Both were historical figures for two different reasons. Mr. Jobs envisioned a world where every person was technologically connected--he made that happen. Reverend Shuttlesworth envisioned a world where every person, regardless of the color of their skin, would be treated with dignity, respect and as equals--he helped make that happen."
Great losses for our nation this week as we say farewell to two exceptional Americans.
By comparison Jody's thought remind me of a major league 'fast ball'...
The NJ nut job more closely resembles a pee-wee league 'wiffle ball'
Not even close! ;o)
She should consider posting that trash on her own thread - trying to ride Jody's success is down right embarrasing! lol
Jody, concise and to the point. You always manage to distill the issues to their essential meaning. I am in awe of your intellect, and you're also a nice lady.
And whose thread is this pray tell? I thought it was the public's thread.
But he is a Yahoo! I second the firing of "Bocephus". Maybe that will settle his rowdy self down.
Don't be a troll Ray that's what Feisty is saying. Get a clue.
THe magical NOJO Feisty Dog Whistle - two Feisty comments, two comment by her about NOJO.
Someone got her some NOJO on the brain.
So Feisty what is it like to be wholly owned and controlled by NOJO?
Fiesty is the original NOJO groupie.
"Fiesty is the original NOJO groupie."
Kind of like how YOU are Feisty's groupie, I see.
Neat.
Also this week - 10 years ago
George W. Bush authorized the start of the Afganistan war the results
1685 Americans dead
14342 Americans dead
A corrupt, weak central government, with a non functioning legislation that would fall without money and military support - I'm talking about the Afganis by the way.
Although it is a seemingly important date it must have been too trivial for the FR editors. A war where I don't understand what we are fighting for and for whose purpose. Unfortunately due to its scope/focus or lack thereof some of our own troops ask similar questions. Who is a villager who is an insurgent? Why are we still there? I've never understood the rationale that we have to fight them over there to keep from fighting them here. I refuse to buy it.
Time to leave.
I am pleased to see that every week people are "adding" to this summary even the one who shades the facts to do it. That's what makes it fun and worth the time spent reading, listening and writing this. What fascinates me with politics is that you can always find some humor, some truth, some honest statements and a whole lot of hooey that when reduced to bite-sized pieces shows which is which. Thank you for adding to it and for the kind words of appreciation.
Jody:
Yeah,...what could possibly go wrong with another snafu ala Hilary? Yes, the penalty should INDEED be nulling their contest; but who will sign up for that punishment? It's kind of like expecting our Congress to cut their pay and perks during this economic crisis. Fair is only a word that will NEVER apply to ME! (or something like that).
As we've all come to expect, absolutely amazing.
And on our local scene, a 10-month old baby was kidnapped from her home. The entire community is pretty stressed out and the reports are conflicting at best. http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html
The nation is asked to report any suspicious activity 816-474-8477.
1685 Americans dead
14342 Americans wounded
Jody--as usual--great roundup of the week! Seems like there is a lot going on--and cheers to our OWS groups across the country for making the voices of the 99% heard. Thank you so much!
"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly
Note to Herman – when running for the highest office in the land, it's usually best to have some
FACTS to back up your baloney!
Feisty Maybe the President should take heed of that comment, appears his made up story about putting a teacher that he met at the white house back on the job because he got the pink slip 3 times is phony. He never met the teacher and the teacher in question is happily employed. Talk about baloney.
I would love to hear any conservative out here point to a single action by Congress during that period that in any way precipitated the collapse of the housing bubble at the end of 2007 or the Wall Street collapse at the end of 2008.
Anna Molly I'll give it a try.
September 21, 2008
McCain Cosponsored Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005; Reform of Fannie and Freddie
In 2003, Senator John McCain co-sponsored the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005. (Text of bill and related information.) The reform, due to Democratic resistance, never became law. Here was a statement John McCain made in support of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005:
This legislation went nowhere, thanks to Barack Obama and other Democrats.
federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/2008/09/federal-housing.html
If the democrats had not defeated this legislation, regulations would have been in place to the point where the housing bubble may not have burst and we would be in better shape today then we are.
Richard lotsanumbers:
Will you please explain to us math-challenged libruls how a Democratic minority in both the Senate and the House were able to defeat that legislation?
Let me ask this another way! How did a Republican majority in both the House and Senate FAIL to pass this wondrous piece of legislation?
Filibuster, same thing republicans are always accused of since President Obama took office. As I recall they (democrats) stood on the steps of the Capitol and cheered that the bill was defeated. However my recall is not always accurate, it might have been another bill but I am pretty sure it was that bill.
Hope that answers your query. By the way I don't agree with your math challenged libruls statement, as I have read your posts and I would most definitely be foolish to attach that label to you or most other liberal posters. I think most people are generally intelligent until they start talking politics then everything goes out the window so to speak. Have a great weekend.
richard lotsanumbers:
You have won me over with your courtesy. Here's some good info. Had that bill truly been about reform, it could have been passed via reconciliation. A filibuster, or the threat of a filibuster could not have stopped the bill.
It is also a fact, that legislation WAS passed during President Bush's tenure that forbade states and their political subdivisions from initiating their own investigations.
The "Bush" tax cuts were passed using reconciliation. That should have been impossible. Reconciliation was quite a useful tool for Republicans during that time.
Finally, it is very important to understand that Gramm/Leach/Bliley which destroyed Glass-Steagall was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Democratic President - Bill Clinton.
No one should be getting passes on the condition of the nation's economy. That's why I can't understand the incredible polarization of the electorate. Republican minions are siding with their enemies and Democrats are aiding them by staying home. Go figure.
Nothing serious today. Here’s some videos to amuse and edify yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBxPzhXFT6c
http://www.mediaite.com/online/limbaugh-why-do-we-never-hear-anything-about-lard-ass-female-politicians/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9yoZHs6PsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZGkNAUSvY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mWAxHpeew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi6XV8yBFoU&feature=related
Believe nothing
No matter where you read it or who has said it
Not even if I have said it
Unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense
Budda
Independent Redneck,
Just wanted to say hi! :o)
GO TIGERS!!
Good to see you this fine October morning Chris!
GO TIGERS! ;o)
Who doesn't root for the underdog?
Amen!!
That was a real nail biter. I especially enjoyed watching the Yankee fans reactions! On the other hand those TBS announcers stunk! The Tigs should beat the Rangers.
When will Mariano Rivera start showing his age?
GO TIGERS!
Lions vs Bears Monday night. Should be a good one. Thank God ESPN canned "Bocephus", I can't stand him or his music.
You got it, Chris!
I'm a hHuge Jim Leyland fan from his days with the Pirates so I'm rooting for you, Chris!
They say you can't fool all the people all the time. Turns out they're right. Republican Conservatives, after promising "jobs, jobs, jobs" during the last electoral campaign switched to deficit reduction the moment they took their oaths of office in January. That's been the case in Congress as well as state houses and governors mansions throughout the country. Using the full resources of their wealthy, elite backers, the Conservative media and talk radio universe, and every procedural tool for obstruction they've laid off tens of thousands of government workers per month, made draconian changes in worker rights in multiple states, put 74,000 FAA workers and affiliated contractors out of work for a month, and nearly shut the federal government down twice.
Yet somehow people can't manage to forget the fact that they don't have jobs. With Bank of America laying off 30,000 while jacking up customer fees in pursuit of ever higher profits, the Koch brothers fortunes exploding while they slash workforce, and countless other reminders of just how little the 99% means to the 1% people are remembering those promises of jobs, jobs, jobs. Republicans could be heroes now if they had any concern whatsoever for average Americans, but their concern instead is for the ultra rich.
Now some are concluding they have no choice but to escalate the pressure. They're angry and they will be heard. Conservatives figure they can continue to marginalize the 99%, making fun of protesters, deriding them as DFH's, making it all too clear their voices are not important in the functioning of our democratic republic. President Obama is starting to recognize that these folks are expressing the frustrations of many, many, many Americans.
It's time to finally do something about that demand of Americans for "jobs, jobs, jobs."
Pass the American Jobs Act
Write the Buffett Rule into tax law.
Keep in mind 90% of the country is working and always hasl, 90% of Americans pay thier mortgage on time and always will. We need to focus on the people who do contribute to this country and stop encouraging more people that it's someone elses fault they are poor and stupid. Obama's rhetoric is not fair to those in the poverty lobby who would help themselves if not for his promises of wealth re-distribution. We desperatley need better leadership in the White House....
Yes, 90% of the country is working, and for the vast majority of THEM incomes are stagnating and have been for over 30 years. Meanwhile incomes at the top have exploded 5-fold.
Thanks for doubling down on the Conservative position of hate for those in need and for bringing up the point that regular, working Americans are hurting EVEN WHEN WE HAVE JOBS.
Quit being a victim and blaming someone else John. If you want more money you have to better yourself. You will be waiting a long time before any politician Democrat or Republican gets you a raise. I don't hate poor stupid people. I hate those who encourage them to remain poor and stupid...
Terrific post, John B. The GOP has failed to keep their promises, not to imply they intended to keep them.
UAW, so giving the poor a hand up is encouraging them to "remain poor and stupid"? People do not choose to be poor, it is often the result of many circumstances and a system that fails them from the beginning.
Funny John, it seems Reid need to play raindeer games to prevent a vote on this bill you hold so precious.
And in theory it'll produce 1.3 million jobs. Of course in theory Solyndra was a great loan, and Gun Runner was going to prevent crime.
Man John, sure seems that you pinning your hopes and dreams on politicians might not be a great idea.
Buffett Bill? Why is it you are the only one talking about it anymore.? You got duped dude. Let it go.
It's pretty interesting.
There is always a direct line between a sense of responsibility and success or failure.
Those who accept no responsibility for poor performance or poor outcomes, ( the teacher doesn't like me leads to my boss doesn't like me), inevitably continually fail.
Those who accept responsibility, (I did not study hard enough leads to I did not consider that aspect- it won't happen again), inevitably succeed.
There are always choices to make. Study- or play video games. Work at a problem until you get a positive outcome- or throw your hands in the air and blame someone else.
Steve Jobs lasted in college ONE semester- and built an empire. Some green haired idiot identifies himself as an unemployed printer repairman, Living in his mother's basement, $87,000 in debt, and blames "corporations".
There are always choices to make. If your sole driving ambition is to earn $250,000 plus a year, study the professions that will lead to that income level, and do what you must to enter one. If your choice is to have the money fairy drop that in your lap- well, good luck with that, cause it ain't never gonna happen.
Everyone in this country has the opportunity for 12 years of education. In the worst schools in the country, there are children who graduate at the top of their classes, go to college on scholarship, and succeed.
In the best schools in this country, there are people who graduate at the bottom of their classes, go to college on mom and dad, do poorly, and fail.
There are always choices. Choose to dream, to work to bring that dream to fruition, to soar. Or choose to dye your hair green, identify yourself as a member of a profession that does not exist, and blame amorphous "others" for your problems.
No politician has EVER gotten me a raise, nor will they EVER. What they CAN and SHOULD do is ensure a level playing field, one where every individual has the opportunity to rise as high as he or she can. What they CAN and SHOULD do is to keep the "haves" from gaming the system so as to always exclude and further marginalize the "have nots."
Unfortunately when Conservatives read that position they think it's Opposites Day. They think that if they only give EVERY advantage to those handful who already have NEARLY every advantage it will somehow trickle down to the rest of us.
Three decades of current data prove that isn't the case. A clear reading of history shows it's a philosophy that has failed every time and in every place it's been tried.
So I need to amend my second paragraph. Conservative leaders probably DON'T believe it'll work. They're just so deep in the pockets of the wealthy elites they no longer care about the rest of us.
John, your first sentence had me believing you had really not been fooled by Obama. Unfortunatley you kept typing. Please stop encouraging poor stupid people into believing thier success depends on some one else. It's not helping them at all. Let's elect a leader in the White House who can make a diffrence just by thier persona. I know Reagan motivated me to work because I didnt beleive that old bastard was going to re-distribute someone elses wealth to me. (I've been working ever since and would need a course in how to even get an unemployment check)....
Walking to work today, I saw a headline that said a "charitable foundation," that promotes entrepreneurship, was donating 3 million dollars to Maine which could result in the creation of 10,000 more jobs in our state over the next decade.
Turns out this "charitable group" is the Blackstone Foundation, founded by a former head of Lehman Bros., Stephen Schwarzman, who has a reported net worth of 5.9 billion dollars.
As much as I appreciated this "charitable" giving, I'm having suspicions. Is it possible the fat cats are finally doing the right thing, in helping America grow the economy, instead of just keeping the cream for themselves, or is this a well-timed publicity effort to get the 99 ers off their backs? And if a mere 3 million dollars can generate 10,000 jobs, then what could the President Jobs BIll create?
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/07/business/foundation-to-invest-3m-in-maine-entrepreneurs/
No Joe
I haven't got a full sense of what the occupy protesters are about, yet. I think the media and the right or left should not try to label them, claim them or try to define who they are. Yes some may be the liberal arts 18th century English literature grad, but I'm sure others have viable degrees who just can't get hired. It is tough even if you make all the right choices.
I can possibly relate to how these people feel. When I graduated with my first degree, close to 20 years ago, it took me nine months to get a job in the architectural profession. It was pretty depressing working temporary contract jobs, manual labor jobs and yes living with my parents. Even did a two month stint working a forklift in a warehouse during the graveyard shift. Finally was hired as an production architect/intern.
The problem nowadays is that there are no jobs, even if you have an education. The longer you stay without a job the harder it is to get one. This applies to those who have been let go due to no fault of their own. I feel for those who lose their job due to budget cuts, or outsourcing or simply because the CEO wants to maintain a couple of extra cents on the dollar of their stock.
Surely you understand that there are no jobs. You may blame it solely on Obama which we would disagree on but we can agree that there are no jobs.
x
UAW, did you miss the part of President Obama's speeches where he talks about hard work and being rewarded accordingly for it? That's the problem, with conservatives like you. You simply object without a reason to object. It isn't that liberals are anti-wealth or opposed to getting rich but we do object to people getting rich on the backs of everyone else and when the rich fail to return something to the country that allowed them to get rich. All those companies like Koch Industries laying off workers--how much of a pay cut did their CEO and owners take? Bank of America is cutting 30,000 ordinary worker jobs--how much of a pay cut will the CEO and upper management take; did they turn down their bonus this year? If they took million dollar pay cuts, gave no bonus money, then I would say those firms were "sharing the sacrifice" but they have not done that. It is not about taking from the rich to give to the poor, it is about the rich and every other person who earns a solid paycheck paying it forward. Rich people do not get rich without the help of everyone else. Asking millionaires to pay a little more in taxes to help the country that made them rich is not anti-capitalism--it's just good sense.
Yellow Dog, I commend you. Thanks for driving a forklift until you got the job you were looking for. I have a feeling the person who interviewed you put more stock in your work employment rather than your unemployment record. I wish more people looked with in themselves for the answers.....
The problem, Mark, is that action by this administration has strangled the job creation market- and try do not even understand how they have done it.
Dodd/Frank has more problems than moat regulation- with far more unintended consequences. It was passed with relatively little debate- and no outs ode information. Thus, banking fees went up on the very "little" people the bill was designed to address. Small businesses cannot compete on price with larger ones- look, for example, at a small coffee shop, vs, Starbucks- so they are eating the increased swipe fees. That leaves less profit- so, less money to hire. New regulations regarding health insurance are also having a dampening effect on employment expansion.
Far worse is the effect on private equity lenders. The SBA provides a minute amount of seed money for small businesses. The vast majority comes from private individuals, who invest in businesses seeking a return on their investment. Because many of these ventures fail, the private equities seek a high rate of return on those that succeed.
Dodd/Frank capped the rerun they could demand. Therefore, that money all but dried up.
What does this mean? Well, one good example is Home Depot- a business plan presented to private equity lenders during then recession of the 1980s. It succeeded wildly, and them original investors got 40% until they were bought out of their position by the founders by way of an IPO, in which the original lenders took an extensive position.
How many people are employed by Home Depot? How many are employed providing Home Depot with goods to sell?
Protecting entrepreneurs from "predatory" private equity firms has protected them right out of the market.
I could list you many businesses with which you are familiar that have similar stories, but you get the idea. If something is small, friends and relatives may help with loans- think of the guy who made a quick bundle in the stagflation days of the 1970s selling Pet Rocks.
It's going to be a smaller, ongoing concern, like a dry cleaner, then, yes, you can pebbly get an SBA loan.
For something big, you need private equity investors. The government has all but shut that down- and we see the results.
I have never thought Obama did any of this deliberately. What makes me angry is that he NEVER learns from the outcome of the unintended consequences of his single minded thinking.
That's why he needs to be defeated at the ballot box.
UAW - Actually was the least depressing of my stints prior to getting my professional one. To clarify it was a stand up forklift, as you know they are easier to operate and don't require a special license. Picked loads for a computer and hardware accessory factory. Also wrapped product, bundled and helped load semis.
I tend to agree with some who say that this generation seems to want instant gratification, however many others simply want to start their life without being left behind. It took me years to finish my internship and to get my architectural license. I dread to think how it would be if I was graduating now, with a down construction field and no jobs. I would bet that other then the professional protesters the vast majority of the "occupiers" just want to get their rightful place in society.
No Joe - As you know I am not an economist and I will defer to your more advanced understanding, (I'm being honest and not sarcastic.)
However, I just don't buy it that if we let the wholesome big corporations alone to do whatever they want that they will hire more. Regarding the bank fee on debit card usage, if BofA or citigroup goes through with this they can expect to see an exodus of customers (including me.) After all in this capitalistic system there are consequences to their actions. I will remove my accounts. That's a market driven response they can expect.
You say HCR will hurt small business the biggest source of private jobs. Does not the health care law exempt small business that employ under 50 employees? Its probably a fundamental disagreement we have; but I don't think if a business has over 50 employees it is small. Neither do I think that those employeers are not rich and can't afford to be taxed a little more.
I know I lost you with my last sentence.
No Joe - That's why he needs to be defeated at the ballot box.
However, you lost me at your last sentence. Have a good weekend No Joe.
A more realistic argument could be made on the fact that we are in a process of de-leveraging along with the rest of the world's economic players. That doesn't happen in a few years despite what NJNB thinks. Hopefully it doesn't last a decade.
Absolutely, Dcia. The home ownership rate has JUST reached the 65% range where it remained steady for decades before liar loans, securitization of blocks of mortgages, and other abuses made possible by the deregulated environment blew a bubble not seen since the glory days of Republican Laissez-Faire in the 1920s. That 65% seems to roughly describe the proportion of the population who can afford to own at any given time. Unfortunately we still have a HUGE inventory in unsold housing that was overbuilt as part of that bubble. Recovery won't truly be complete until that inventory is absorbed by expanding population. At that time construction can return to normal levels, as will large appliance sales and all the other things that depend heavily on new construction.
Meanwhile Republicans continue doing everything in their power to suppress employment and wages, delaying the recovery. THAT money is to be fed directly to the ultra wealthy, from whence we're expected to believe against all prior evidence it will be fed back to the rest of us with dividends. It's such a ridiculous proposal there's no way Conservative leaders can actually believe it will work. They just need to make enough people believe it to enshrine a new American aristocracy.
John do you just lay in bed worrying about George Bush jumping out of the closet and running off with your wallet? Seriously Dude worry about taking care of yourself and you won't have to worry if somebody else is saving money for your retirement, funding your health insurance, paying your mortgage, etc. etc. etc. and anything else you think Republicans are denying you.... Jeeeesh
John B -- Very nicely said. In my jaded view, I feel the next theft will occur if the Wall Street investors get their way and win a nice fat tax credit for buying up some of the excess inventory in the housing market. Using tax dollars to buy the very homes they confiscated after demolishing everyone's property values and means of making a living. (The equivalent to a slap in the face in my opinion.) They will then rent them out and let them fall in disrepair and charge excessively high rates while further devaluing property values for the few remaining trying to hold on in these neighborhoods that use to be middle class. It's a sad time indeed John. Troubling and I fear about to get worse.
Oh yea Dont, That would just be a tradgedy if somebody with the cash, credit and resources to buy these empty houses stepped in and bought them. Let's just have the largest holder of defuct mortgages Fannie and Freddie leave them in the hands of those people already skipping the payments on them. Have any of you ever driven thru a government subsidized housing project??? You want to talk about destroying the value of property. Jeeeeesh...
Pleeeeease UAW -- First off the tragedy lies in entire scheme that created the bubble in the first place. The last time I looked my mortgage was a private contract between me and my lender and not up for public consumption via gambling with market swings or collapses! You think using tax dollars to buy those houses is a good idea give me a break! You want to buy them go ahead just don't expect tax payers to pay for it but instead of renting them out try living in them at least someone with a vested interest may keep them up! Well it seems no one including Republicans know how to wind down Freddie and Fannie and therein lies another tragedy eh? If they did why isn't it being done?? Who mentioned anything about subsidized housing projects????? Go peddle that gripe to someone else.
Dcia, one of the great tragedies of this is that it's largely solvable. The vast majority of all home owners with troubled mortgages could afford their payments at current price levels and interest rates. They can't afford them at inflated prices from the bubble period and high interest rates the owners have been subjected to by their ARMs.
Further, if those homes are foreclosed the BEST the banks will be able to get out of the properties is current price and interest rates...IF the foreclosure period doesn't cause the unoccupied house to deteriorate significantly, which we all know is too common.
So why don't we jump on the obvious, common sense solution? Officially it's because the financial houses and Conservatives are irrationally hung up on something called "moral hazard." It's an argument that if people realize they can walk away from their mortgages they will no longer feel compelled to "do the right thing."
It's a silly argument because the ONLY parties in the transaction who are expected to be constrained by "moral hazard" are middle class Americans. Not the banks who consciously loaned money to people they KNEW were unlikely to be able to pay. Not to the investment houses who securitized those bad mortgages so buyers down the line couldn't tell they were worthless. Not the mortgage brokers and realtors who originated these loans, often fabricating the the information on the applications. Not commercial buyers, another market which has collapse. Businesses often walk away from deals when conditions change, often filing bankruptcy with few ill effects. Donald Trump has done that 3 times.
I believe UAWP has inadvertently spoken truth in his comment;
Oh hey, looking at it that way it's just another mechanism for the wealthy elites to concentrate still more wealth in their own hands, further impoverishing the middle class. Since Conservatism isn't about consistency of thought or principle, it's just a way of selling policies beneficial to the rich that would make perfect sense.
John B -- Once again you write the truth. When others, such as NJNB, purposefully neglect to state the collapse of the housing market and the lingering aspects of that crisis as a factor in this stagnating economy/job growth...well I feel compelled to remind them. It's a painful, slow process that will take years to recover from. It isn't just because the banks got a few regulations slapped on them or any other excuse she was peddling. It's stagnated because they are not addressing the underlying cause. The disappearance of "wealth". That created real deficits for some. Many are unable to pay that new/old debt down if forced through extenuating circumstances. Foreclosing, an option of last resort, in the past would have given some a second chance is now being challenged by some banks. The banks are suing these individuals for their loss if they cannot recover in full the balance owed after a sale. Outrageous. This practice use to apply to short sales only. Now the debtor doesn't even get relief there either. And on and on it goes. Unbelievable the effrontery these "moral" "upstanding" institutions display. Criminal comes to mind. People like UAW run around spewing BS laced with hypocrisy hoping people will swallow it. Give the investors an incentive and they will buy that house; UAW's solution. Notice how indignant UAW becomes when you suggest giving that same incentive to the actual home owner? Pretty telling. Below is the link to an article in US News about the "renters/investors solution". BTW, I will weather the storm just fine. Too many others will not or have not. That is the tragedy. Thanks for detailing the destructive practices that lead to the crash John, hopefully it will help others understand what exactly happened over the past decade. Keep on keeping on my friend.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/10/06/how-renters-could-save-the-housing-market
We should not view Obama's un-popularity as a bad thing. This is a good oppurtunity for this country to get back on track. Too many people have been waiting for someone else to provide a living for them. It's heart warming to listen to young people who were first time voters in 2008 realize they can infact help themselves. Let's keep the momentum going into 2012 and elect a new President to lead us--Not give us rhetoric that we are all just victims of someone eleses success. VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!
UAW, Republicans took us so far off the track, it's taken this long just to find it again. Now if those heroes of yours in the Congress would either help or get the hell out of the way, we'l be back on it.
Sorry King blaming the republicans for this economy just doesnt wash with intelligent people. We could have avoided this mess back in '03 if not for Barney Frank...
''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.'' 2003
UAW, you keep trying to project yourself as being smart, but every time you post something you are just projecting the opposite. This fits you pretty well UAW, "better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
Ah come on Mo, your better than that. Giving a personal insult is like an echo sooner or latter your going to hear it return.....
Just calling it like I see it UAW.
So you want to blame Barney and Freddie and Fannie but conveniently leave Gramm out of it. Typical. Intelligent people know the whole story
And the whole story is much more complex that what resided within one party or the next election. The deleveraging of our economy, and the upswing in the savings rate, is actually a good thing. Does not help the current group of unemployed. But it is long overdue. Tax and spend is not the answer. Nor is complete deregulation.
kingofmyhill. Here is an excerpt from factcheck.org Intelligent people do know including President Bill Clinton. Please read.
A MoveOn.org Political Action ad plays the partisan blame game with the economic crisis, charging that John McCain’s friend and former economic adviser Phil Gramm “stripped safeguards that would have protected us.” The claim is bogus. Gramm’s legislation had broad bipartisan support and was signed into law by President Clinton. Moreover, the bill had nothing to do with causing the crisis, and economists – not to mention President Clinton – praise it for having softened the crisis.
What are the tea people GOP republicans going to be outraged about today. The jobs numbers weren't good but their not bad enough for the tea people GOP republicans to be outraged about. The unemployment numbers were revised upward from last month. Oh you can bet they'll find something to be outraged about, they can't live without outrage.
Mo, are you aluding to the fact that obstructing Obama and not passing any of his ridiculous ideas is actually helping businesses gain confidence and the economy since the election of 2010?
UAW---Gaining confidence? Maybe in screwing the middle-class royally. Yeah, go rich go!!!
Tom let's say I'm the screwed middle class. What could the government do for me that is any more efective than what I can do for myself? Should I go to an occupy Wallstreet protest today or should I teach myself a new skill? The government doesnt have to educate me.....
No UAW, but it's the government that gives you the opportunity to get educated. And BTW it's those people your deriding that pay for that opportunity. You ought to be thinking them instead of putting them down.
You think you're so smart UAW you tell me. In reference to post 7.1
Mo, I wouldnt say I'm so smart. I think I'm just smart enough to know. I can accomplish my goals faster myself than waiting for any politician Democrat or Republican to accomplish them for me. If you think the olny education in life comes from a publiclly funded institution you are holding yourself back my freind....
Really funny, Mo, outrage is the trademark of liberals. Anytime anyone makes a point you disagree with, the response is never a valid position on the issue, the response is usually just some derogatory comment and name-calling.
You notice Obama has refrained from using the word "shovel ready" in his lectures about the so called "jobs bill"? Which is a short term "sugar pill" attempt at reelection. The first stimulus of almost a trillion dollars resulted in debt and the loss of jobs after the money ran out. This next attempt, if passed, will result in debt and the folks who were hired will lose their job in half the time. Great plan huh?
Let the name-calling begin....
I wasn't only talking about publicly funded schools UAW. What about those streets you traveled to get to your privately funded education, or the food that nourished you, or the water that sustained you our the hundreds of other services you used, and paid for by tax payers so you could get your education. Yes UAW you need to think the lowly tax payer.
I think we found something we can agree on Mo. I'm ok with using taxes for streets, water, even public schools etc. I just wish we didnt spend it on ridiculous pension benifits for public employees and poor investments like the $500 Million Obama threw away on Soylent Green.....
Great Rovian technique, Tony. Accuse your opponent of doing what you in fact are doing. From just a couple of threads up the page;
I don't need to call you names. Your lack of credibility speaks for itself here on FR every day.
Awe come on John don't give up that easy. I'm the conservative guy your trying to convince that my future is being stolen by the Republicans. Sell me on the idea that if the Democrats ran every thing, I'd be gaurenteed a life time income better than poverty.....
John, I see facts still don't get in the way of your exaggertions and misinformation. Just because you don't agree doesn't translate into a lack of credibility on my part. If you want to disagree or counter a position or opinion, thats fine, but don't challenge my credibility. You may not like the facts on the economy and the fact that after 3 years and bragging by Obama how he would "fix" the economy and hasn't. You don't have to admit reality, but that doesn't change the facts, or the fact that voters are figuring it out as well, based on what the polls have shown. Interesting you did not respond to my comments about the so called jobs bill.
OK guys, explain away these facts;
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2008/1021/p09s01-coop.html
John, more cut and paste "opinion" pieces. Really.
Thanks for accepting your inability to explain away the facts, even though they don't support your Conservative position.
Here's what I learned this week: Scott Brown is not going to win re-election because of his comment (it's the soccer moms who won't forgive him).
And I learned that the Wall Street occupation protests won't amount to much because they are far less organized than any flash mob. It's too bad, by the way, that the media has chosen to characterize them as the far-left 'Tea Party'. Such a characterization marginalizes the important message the protestors are emphasizing.
The truth is that all the Wall Street bonus earners, while they go to cash their Christmas bonus checks, can still afford to chuckle at the collected 'rabble' outside. Until and unless they feel threatened somehow (still no consequences for their criminal actions), their behavior won't change a whit.
Only one problem with that last paragraph, Wall Street and big banks did not break any laws--deregulation made what they did legal, it encouraged taking huge risks; and an internal system that rewarded failures exacerbated the risk taking. What they did is morally despicable but sadly, not criminal. The mortgage crisis was the result of failures at every level. Real estate brokers convincing people to buy homes they really could not afford and people believing them; people taking out mortgages for expensive vacations or something else they really didn't need, banks not checking credit references and incomes of those applying for loans, financial institutions bundling and selling mortgages they knew would fail for profit, etc. Greed and corruption run amok.
What I learned this week is that the media is more interested in a manufactured political horse race than the issues. We get more coverage of who isn't running than we get of what the folks who are running are planning to do if they are elected.
You would think if the leader of the free world gave you a homework assignment, it might rate a mention, but based on this morning's First Read, I guess not.
First of all, I have got to highlight this deliciously non-reality based "question" from journalist Bill Plante:
Now, can anybody tell me how in the WORLD anyone can stand up with a straight face and ask President Obama if he is willing to negotiate with the hostage taking Congress? I mean, this is ALL President Obama has beeing doing from the day he was elected! WTF kind of question is that?
But I digress . . . this is an excerpt from President Obama's answer that I am surprised (not really) that the corporate people in the media have decided to ignore:
So I ask the question of First Read and any other media professionals . . . what is the answer? What is the Republican proposal to create jobs? How many jobs will the Republican proposals create?
Why is nobody answering these question without being asked? I mean, isn't that a fundamental thing we need to know in order to make a good decision about the direction of our country?
What gives?
A good question Nash but I doubt you'll get any answer that makes sense. Hey back at you. A Day without Nashville is like a day without sunshine in the World of the Hill folk
Bravo, Nashville fan. Ball out of the park!
It's laughable for the media to question whether President Obama is willing to compromise after 2 1/2 years of it. Why should he compromise with the GOP any more? A good share of what is in the AJA is what the GOP and businesses traditionally would be salivating to get--tax cuts. The question FR should be asking the GOP and business is why are they opposed to those tax cuts?
Great post, Nash. Let's give the Republicans/Tea Party some credit, however---in addition to the cut government spending and lower taxes on the wealthy "policies" they spout, they have now added a third way to create jobs (in spite of the fact that the first two have been epic failures)----too much government regulations. So, before they are fired, the last government workers can get rid of all regulations and then the economy will really hum!
I hope your Titans have a great trip to Pittsburgh, enjoy some pierogies and famous Primanti Brothers sandwiches (where the french fries and cole slaw are IN the sandwich) but go back to Tennessee with a loss!
Steeler Fan:
If I know my Titans like I think I do, you will get your wish!
(Hope I'm wrong though!)
:o)
Hank Jr was only guilty of using a bad analogy to describe two people who don't like each other. That's it. The PC police strike again. Why is/was Keith Olbermann allowed to be on NFL post-game shows after all the things he's said about people he hates? Liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.
I learned this week that, when asked, liberals refuse to answer WHY any right-winger who is against illegal immigration is a facist/racist, but under Obama more illegals have been deported than ever before, and he's still a saint. Lib hypocrisy at it's finest.
I learned that liberals will support the War On Islamofacism if a Democrat is in office (including drone attacks, Gitmo, Patriot Act), but will do everything they can to undermine it when a Repub is in office. Liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.
I learned that racial slurs such as "Uncle Tom", "sellout", "oreo", "walnut" are acceptable on First Read (and to the liberals that read and moderate the site), because these slurs are directed toward Herman Cain and other conservative blacks. These slurs are used by white liberals and black liberals such as the nappy-headed ho named Beverly. If any white person on here called Obama a "porch monkey", "tar baby" or worse, they would be banned immediately and should be. Liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.
I learned that, once again, when far-left morons get together to protest something, they are incoherent, stupid, mindless and all together full of crap. The "OccupySidewalksWherePeopleWhoWorkAreWalking" demonstrations are further proof. These "protests" will fizzle out soon or, horrifyingly to Dems, turn viciously on Obama because they are made up mostly of communists who believe that Obama is too far right.
Oh come on,...he was guilty of being a moron in public. I mean really,...Biden, Obama - the THREE stooges?
WTF. Ya' know what else he's 'guilty' of? Being a legacy offspring. What has the man DONE in this great life on his own? The skids were greased,...just like Romney, Trump, McCain, Bush 2
I find it so ironic that those who tend to preach the WORD about being 'self made' are just phony posers.
Speaking of posers, you continue to maintain your poutrage at what you perceive are one sided slurs and then include "...nappy headed ho..." in your diatribe,...? Really?
I think you've earned every bit of 'respect' you receive here, damage. Don't let the door hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'.
[Hank Jr was only guilty of using a bad analogy...]
So, BrainDamage is sticking up for that ignorant? Or is that a reflection on yourself...
Maybe if he was smarter and didn't have a Scotch and Scotch for breakfast he wouldn't have heard his career flushing down the toidy...
Video of the occupation of Nashville here:
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15631101/occupy-nashville-rally-held-at-legislative-plaza
Yes. We Can.
"WHAT WE LEARNED THIS WEEK":
Obama is sinking billions into "green jobs" money pits (Solyndra, where are the emails ?!), bailing out banks and Union pension funds, his DOJ is LYING about "Fast and Furious", his jobs czar ( Jeff Immelt / GE) does not pay taxes and sends jobs to China, BIDEN admits that the ECONOMY is OWNED BY OBAMA/BIDEN, and the Obama team just appointed Shakira, a COLUMBIAN SINGER, to the Education council here ( could he at least have found an American?).
President Obama addressed the Solyndra controversy in his news conference yesterday:
No risk, no reward Leona.
Instead of "what we learned this week LEONA", it should have read what I've learned form Fox (aka tea people GOP republican propaganda machine) and Limbaugh (racist) the last 3 years.
Nice twist and attempt to divert attention away from the issue. The issue is not the program, it is the facts surrounding this loan and the fact that Solyndra didn't have a prayer in the world to survive and was granted a loan any way. Also Obama administration allowed an Obama supporter and investor to gain first place in the bankruptcy. All of Obama's press conferences are the same. Obama's answers are a 10 minute lecture and usually defensive in nature. Just listen to him.
What about the restructuring of the loan for Solyndra? Has that issue been resolved?
Mo-1852032: "Instead of "what we learned this week LEONA", it should have read what I've learned form Fox (aka tea people GOP republican propaganda machine)..."
Hey Mo, The truth su$%@ but it's still the truth. Put down the kool aid and sober up.
Mo,
I think 'learned' should be in quotes, like that,...I think that's a more apt depcition of what happened with Leona,...
Nashville-fan: "No risk, no reward Leona."
Let Obama use YOUR money for his "risks". I can figure many other benefits Americans could derive from $500 billion that went to Solyndra !
Clara, if you can refute the facts I listed, do so. Otherwise, your comments are silly. Put the kool aid down because you are drunk enough.
Leona:
My money has been used for all types of gambles by the government . . . the Iraq War and Wall Street bailout come to mind.
The bailout of Detroit turned out pretty damn good, so its not all bad Leona. Out here in the real world, folks learn from their mistakes and move on.
Not one thing you typed is gonna make anything better, but carp on if it makes you happy.
Leona,
Right off the bat you say he bailed the banks out; but TARP was done under Bush,...I don't have time to refute the rest; because, really what would be the point? Once you are willing to lie to make your point,...the rest of what you write is really inconsequential. No?
I want my $ back for the Iraq debacle. There was a folly with lies written all over it. Short of that, I'd take an apology from Cheney or W. A real good ole fashioned mea culpa, too. Not one of those Hank Williams Jr jobbies.
Clara, you "don't have time to refute the rest" because you know I am right. I listed the facts only. So I repeat.....
Obama is sinking billions into "green jobs" money pits (Solyndra, where are the emails ?!), bailing out banks and Union pension funds, his DOJ is LYING about "Fast and Furious", his jobs czar ( Jeff Immelt / GE) does not pay taxes and sends jobs to China, BIDEN admits that the ECONOMY is OWNED BY OBAMA/BIDEN, and the Obama team just appointed Shakira, a COLUMBIAN SINGER, to the Education council here ( could he at least have found an American?).
Clara, Tarp is mostly paid back. A lot of banks were "forced" to take the money. Obama's first stimulus resulted in more national debt in reality when it is all said and done. Obama even makes the case that teachers, police, etc. lost their jobs when the first stimulus ran out. Sounds like Obama admitting "stimulus" was short lived and didn't last. Now Obama wants a half "stimulus II" called a jobs bill. The "saved" jobs will run out in half the time. Great plan huh? Everyone knows this is not a jobs bill. Just a reelection ploy. Obama cares about certain jobs, not jobs in general. There are thousands, if not millions of jobs out there that will not cost one tax dollar being held up by various regulations and government red tape. Obamais interested in creating a social welfare state and putting extremely tight controls on free markets. Hence the poor economic recovery.
Cheers.
Just think if Solyndra doesn't get their loan we could be under 14 trillion debt wise. Not only did Solyndra get $535 billion but our idiot Governor Brown D-CA gave them $16 million. By the way Solyndra has another loan under review. What a joke of an administration if that gets approved.
Leona,
Don't flatter yourself. Your willingness to lie to make your point has underscored my point. Retract your error,...and quit pretending you're objective. You aren't right and I certainly don't know anything about you other than you are a liar. And possibly a hater.
I always thought Scott Brown was a simple shallow empty suit. It took him just 2 words to prove me right. I can't wait to see Elizabeth Warren debate him for the senate seat. She is going to expose him like he's never been exposed before -- no pun intended! He is definately going down in 2012!
So she can say that she didn't take off her clothes and he can't say Thank God???? Little bit of a double standard there but what else is new.
Ray, you are correct. Elizabeth Warren is a socialist, so they like her and she can say anything she wants, derogatory or otherwise. The only "fair" liberals believe in is a "unfair" share of what someone else has earned in life. That fact is also obvious when you read their posts.
Warren is a freak. A plain and simple "freak".
This liberalism postulates that, in the modern social context, only a special few people can literally make up their own minds.
Elizabeth Warren is scaring Ray, Tony C and Willing.Sniper to death. Go future Senator Warren you've got them on the run.
Ray and Tony, the big difference here was that Warren commented on the choices Brown made. The key word there is choice. Brown on the other hand attempted to insult Warren based on her appearence. What fitting senator in his right mind would disparage how a woman looks? That is beneath him and the office he holds! Of course you 2 may disagree but that's ok.
That is funny. She hasn't even won the primary yet. By the way, what the people do in Mass. they have to live with. I couldn't care less. I just stated a fact. She is a socialist.
Thing is Tony C, your definition of socialist is wrong. I pointed that out yesterday, yet you keep using the wrong definition.
Andy--Stop your whining. That was a great comeback by Brown. The liberals on here spent the better part of a WHOLE WEEK making jokes about Gov Christie being fat. Warren takes a shot at Brown, he makes a great retort, and all you snivelling, pissy-pants libs start screaming "sexist!"..."mysoginist!" and whatever. Why don't you grow a pair and laugh at a good joke. I'm guessing you're gay, right? You're probably that guy that went after Bristol Palin in that bar, screaming "you're mother's a whore!". Same ol' liberal whiny crap. You people can dish it out but can't take it. Get a life.
Perhaps it's the subtlety of Brown's remark that Ray, Tony, Willing and Damage miss.
Warren's initial remark was irony. Brown's response was derision and insult. The laughing only exacerbated his mistake.
Mo, the definition may be somewhat different in your mind. But that doesn't change reality.
I am a pretty raging feminist and I've got to say, she took the first shot. I personally think the banter was humorous. I am supporting Warren in the race; but if you're going to fling mud, you're going to end up with dirt in some unseemly places.
I do like to point out that his comment was typical Repub inaccuracy to imply that SHE went to ivy league colleges,...she did not. But other than that, the banter was inbounds and fair in my view. Now Joe in Albany laughing about it,...in that nasty little way of his,...well THAT is offensive; but mostly cuz' I consider the source.
Clara-
I couldn't agree more with the first part of your statement. I doubt many actually listened to the audio, or are commenting on the actual exchange.
Can you imagine anyone taking seriously a woman who took her clothes off for money? What gives with the dichotomy?
Damage123,
Like Perry said to Romney, you were doing ok for a while there bud until you called me gay. Nothing wrong with being gay but I'm not. I assume you're a guy. Do you have a gf or wife? If she ever spends a night with this liberal, she would never come back to you ever! Trust and believe
Clara I found both comments funny and not vindictive, just humor and Senator Brown did apologize for the remark on another radio show that day. Glad to see one liberal hasn't lost her mind over 2 innocent comments.
I haven't posted or scanned this week so I'm not sure if Perry's "rock" got a lot of air time here. I would point out that the language, although I abhor it will not cost Perry any lack of support. Those who try to tie his falling numbers to this issue are mistaken.
The reason his numbers are falling is for only one reason. His support for a rational state policy to encourage children of undocumented immigrants to go to college and better themselves. Yes it panders for the Latino vote, however it was and still is a sensible idea to allow for those kids to become more beneficial members of the state in lieu of them becoming less productive, unproductive or burdens to the state.
God told Sarah he wanted her to continue to make millions in speaking fees, television earnings, and book sales, and he did not want her to have to learn policies, and trek through the snow in New Hampshire, and spend a year on the road campaigning. Sarah, being a "Real American," listened to her God.
What we learned is that Herman Cain has a 9-9-9- plan that is catching on. Obama has implemented a 9.1 plan that is fully implemented with unemployment. Except Herman Cain would improve the economy and Obama is destroying the economy.
The problem with the economy is Obama. Obama is out to prove that government is a solution and that free markets need to be restricted. Every action Obama has taken has been in that direction. Obama attempts to hide the fact that that the "change" he believes in is creating a social welfare state. What is also obvious is the liberal media supports him. You notice Obama doesn't use the word "shovel ready" to support his new "stimulus" bill. Ah, but the majority of the voters are figuring it out.
Obama Lies; the Economy Dies.
WOW, you tea people GOP republicans are really showing your fear this morning.
Hi Jody--Iowa--
Bundling bad mortgages you know are worthless and selling them as prime investments is illegal; we need to let juries decide.
Also, the credit rating agencies committed crimes by giving AAA ratings to bundles of bad mortgages--financial crime is knowingly deceiving other parties for financial gain. Again, no one at the Justice Dept. has tested this proposition because no one has been indicted.
I'm sorry but the it-was-immoral-but-not illegal defense must be limited to those who unknowingly passed along bundles of junk mortgages. The others need to be prosecuted.
Democrats have nothing to fear in 2012 for the GOP and Tea heads have made sure that no GOP can be elected president. Their gridlocking and throw the middle class with grandma over the cliff while stomping on everything that doesnt appease their wealthy business interest is the perfect insurance that they cannot be elected.
Obama doesnt even need to campaign for nobody is running against him.
You sure about that? I didn't know that fund raiser for Obama in NYC hosted by Buffet was for the "working man" so to speak. Gee, I though it for the wealthy Wall Street and Big Banker liberals who supported Obama 3 to 1 in the last election. Wow, Obama doesn't want the wealthy business interests money. You need to let him know.
I think we learned this week that President Obama will most likely be re-elected. His feisty news conference yesterday was a turning point that demonstrated without any doubt that he is fired up and ready to go!
The GOP nominee will probably be Mitt Romney. He does not excite the Tea Party crowd who will either sit on their hands or work only tepidly in his behalf. The Christian Evangelicals (many of whom, of course, make up the Tea Party crowd - but there are many others who are more moderate GOPers and Independents) are very suspicious of his Mormonism - which I frankly don't understand - but it is real. Many of them will sit out the election. This will put swing states like Virginia and North Carolina - that have large conservative religious voting blocks - in play The Health Care issue will be off the table. And Romney's bland Tom Dewey-like persona will greatly suffer up against an energized Truman-like President Obama.
Of course if Charlie Cook is right and Rick Perry is the nominee I think it will be a landslide for President Obama. Scary Perry will get the Tea Party and Evangelical vote - but he will frighten most, if not all, Independents to move over to Obama and energize the Democratic base to come out in droves and not only vote, but campaign even more ardently than in 2008.
The only hope for the GOP is Herman Cain. I am serious. It would be a long-shot but I truly think he would be the GOP's best candidate.
Look how many prominent GOP candidates have declined to run - Haley Barbour, Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, Mitch Daniels, Chris Christie. If any of these men truly believed that they could ultimately win I think they would have jumped in. But they have not. That speaks volumes.
President Obama is strong on foreign policy - Bin Laden, Al Awlaki, etc. The public, in poll after poll, blames the GOP Congress and President Bush for the economy. The GOP is falling right in line in his Truman-like strategy of running against a do-nothing Congress. And the polls attest to the fact that President Obama is still extremely likable.
It is looking very good for the Democrats in 2012!!
Here are the facts after almost 3 years of Obama:
The economy is weak, employment is weak, home values are down, unemployment is up, the national debt is up by the greatest amount ever and healthcare costs continue to go up. Obama's economic policies have been a failure and will more than likely continue to be a failure.
The polls show most Americans believe Obama is taking this nation in the wrong direction. His approval rating is around 40%. Notice Obama has not used "shovel ready" in his lectures pushing for his next stimulus plan. It is not a jobs bill, it is a attempt to score political points. Voters are figuring it out. Notice he speaks as if he hasn't been in office for almost 3 years. All of a sudden he is worried about the economy. Wonder why?
You keep your head in the sand now.....things will be OK.
It's either blinders on or you need lasik.
Considering the similarities between the numbers you cite and the numbers in November 2008, who did you support for President then and why?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Poll: Record High for Wrong-Track Rating
By MEGAN THEE
In the face of economic upheaval in the United States, a record 89 percent of Americans now say the country has pretty seriously gotten off on the wrong track while just 7 percent of Americans say the country is going in the right direction, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/poll-record-high-for-wrong-track-rating/
Unemployment in December 2008
In December, the number of unemployed persons increased by 632,000 to 11.1 million and the unemployment rate rose to 7.2 percent.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2009/jan/wk2/art02.htmTony-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did those same numbers (unemployment rose almost 2 1/2 %! more than the rise from that day till today, 9.1-7.2=1.9%) lead you to you have the same conclusions? If not, what was your logic then?
And remember, I am not exactly a big supporter of this administration...
Monetfan, WOW. Did you just get home from Tahiti after a 3 year vacation? Or, maybe, the kool aid is extra strong today.
Monetfan, one thing is clear from your post. You have little or no knowledge of Republicans, the Tea Party, or Evangelical Christians. Many of the key evangelical leaders have already said they will support Romney. This includes many of the conservative fundamentalist Christians. Almost all of the right wing including the Tea Party are united around making Obama a one term President. They will unite around the Republican Candidate. All of these candidates are much farther more conservative than McCain in 2008. Romney has made an infatical promise to repeal Obamacare and that is all the right is looking for.
If the President's job approval ratings continue around 40% and unemployment is above 8% with 1% GDP growth, any of these candidate can beat the President. Even Democratic pollsters like Carville, Schoen, and Caddell have said this. The people have made up their minds on Obama. All the Republican candidate has to do is look reasonable. Why do you think Democrats have started on all the personal attacks on the Republican candidates.
Monet fan that speech was for the base. As soon as things don't go his way he will go back to being the appeaser that he is.
any of these candidate can beat the President.
Well Ray -- the poles don't show that. The only republican even tied with Obama is Romney and the teapublicans won't nominate him. with the economy in the shape it's in, Obama's numbers should be in the low 20s -- like Bush's were in 52008. This shows what a disaster the current drop of teapublicans are.
lmao..... thats the attitude we want you to take Don! Keep it up, the right isnt that powerful so relax put your feet up! Your a shoo in!
What have I learned?
60% talking points, 30% personal insults, 5% "great post!" and 5% intelligent, thoughtful commentary...
Your talking about the tea people GOP republicans I assume dangerfield. Thought so. But your 5% intelligence is a little high, great posts should be 0% and personal insults should be 45% and talking points should be 50%.
There is just no jobs in this town Lloyd!. I know what you mean Harry unless you want to work 40 hours a week...... :)
While the liberal media plays up Perry and Romney as their choices Herman Cain, the conservative keeps gaining and appears to have the ability to go over the finish line without a pit stop. Cain will be the worst nightmare for the liberal state run media.
Herman Cain is impressive in many ways. He answers question in a direct fashion and to the point. Obama answers question with a 10 minute lecture sprinkled with excuses. Herman Cain believes in bringing solutions to the table. Obama believes in allienation and agitation as a prelude to coming to the table. Herman Cain comes across as a leader. Obama comes across as a community agitator. Which of course is what he is.
Tony C hear hear good post.
amen to that