Occupy Wall Street Movement:

About two weeks ago I noticed there were some protesters hanging out on Wall Street and paid little attention to what they were doing. Then a week later their numbers had grown to more than 1,500. OK, that's still a small group and the First Amendment gives Americans the right to peaceably assemble.

Then the group moved to the Brooklyn Bridge. They disrupted traffic and approximately 700 were arrested. In short, they received the attention they were seeking. They appear to be a group who are opposed to the greed and corruption generated by the richest 1 % of Americans. They are not happy when corporate America and the wealthy pay fewer taxes than Main Street Americans.

Clearly there are political implications here. Conservatives will call these protesters union members, Marxists or Communists and in fact there may be a few liberals among the group. But the reality is that the vast majority of the protesters are students, teachers, veterans, the unemployed and underemployed. They are a cross-section of the 99% Americans who are dissatisfied with the special benefits given to the wealthy by Republicans.

This movement is growing as I read that 3000 marched on the Bank of America in Boston. Other cities like Philadelphia, Washington DC, Chicago, and Los Angeles are planning their own protests. Money and supplies are being sent to the Occupy Wall Street Movement. This movement has struck a nerve in Main Street America and I do not believe it will go away.

If the leaders of the movement follow the path of civil disobedience and peaceful assembly (like that of the civil rights movement), they will highlight the Republican Party's efforts to promote the greed of Wall Street. To protest Wall Street greed in every major city in America will make the Boston Tea Party of 1773 look like small potatoes.

Koch Industries helps to provide the financial and idealogical basis for the Tea Party. Consider the following:

"After an investigation by Bloomberg Markets, it was discovered that Koch Industries "sold millions of dollars of petrochemical equipment to Iran, a country the U.S. identifies as a sponsor of global terrorism", as well as " being involved in improper payments to win business in Africa, India and the Middle East.....Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban. Koch Industries have also rigged prices with competitors, lied to regulators and repeatedly run afoul of environmental regulations, resulting in five criminal convictions since 1999 in the U.S. and Canada." (Bloomberg)

Koch Brothers have: "supported the Tea Party, a loosely organized group that aims to shrink the size of government and cut federal spending. These are long-standing tenets for the Kochs. In 1980, David Koch ran for vice president on the Libertarian ticket, pledging to abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve System, welfare, minimum wage laws and federal agencies -- including the Department of Energy, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency."
(ThinkProgress)

Bloomberg News Investigation: Koch Industries Bribed Foreign Officials, Sold Petrochemical Equipment To Iran
http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/10/02/333962/koch-industries-bribe-foreign-government-iran/

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

I see the tea-nuts were in your neck of the woods.
Lefty Protester Unable to Argue Facts Outside TEACON 2011

http://rebelpundit.com/2011/10/01/lefty-protester-goes-nuts-outside-teacon-2011/

==================================================================

Nothing else really matters -- not foreign policy victories, not enhanced national security, not an improving American economy, and certainly not more jobs. Wait there is sometime---Make President Obama a one term president

BTW: I checked the local channels not one talked about the Bank of America Protes in the loop

a racial epithet had been displayed at a hunting camp that he and his family had leased

That was one hell of a welcome mat - Slick Rick & family had!

Happiness is a Democratic sweep in the House, Senate and White House in 2012.

Obama in 2012.

Why is Harry Reid being an obstructionist on Barry’s new half-trillion dollar stimulus bill??

Seems like he just wants to see the President fail. I wonder if secretly Harry Reid is out to make Barry a one term President.

C’mon Harry “PASS THIS BILL!!!”

Obama pitches jobs bill, GOP wants less red tape

WASHINGTON — The White House and congressional Republicans just can't agree on the best prescription for the economy, with President Barack Obama demanding passage of his $447 billion jobs bill and the GOP pushing to cut government red tape.

Both efforts, the focus of competing radio and Internet addresses Saturday, face little chance of success as all-or-nothing proposals in a divided Congress.

Three weeks after Obama submitted his legislation, the Democratic-controlled Senate has yet to consider it.

"It is time for Congress to get its act together and pass this jobs bill so I can sign it into law," he said in his Saturday address.

The president has mounted a steady public campaign on behalf of his bill, trying to cast Congress and Republicans in particular as obstacles. With a populist flair, Obama has barnstormed across the country to prod Congress, so far to no avail.

Elementary my dear Ron, Elementary. It is the simplest of movements that arise from "We the People"

that have the profoundest effect. Good post!

It's nice to know PRESIDENT OBAMA can't be brought by the nuke & fifthly oil stained Koch Brothers
I was just shocked, shocked to see this in a right wing rag...

October 02, 2011
Business Mag Expose Says Koch Brothers Were Supplying Iran In Possible Violation of U.S. Trade Embargo

Next to Jane Mayer's ground breaking piece about the Koch Brothers in the New Yorker, this article by Bloomberg Markets Magazine undoubtedly represents another PR disaster for the Koch Brothers, and could also have severe consequences.

Koch Industries paid bribes in six countries from 2002 to 2008 to win business in Africa, India and the Middle East, comparable to similar behaviour of German technology giant Siemens (Siemens subsequently had to pay a $ 1.6 billion fine!)

While is not 100% certain at this point that Koch Industries did in fact violate US law, according to Bloomberg Markets Magazine, internal memos show for example that the details of the sales with Iran were meticulously checked by US lawyers of Koch Industries and coordinated with the lawyers in order to fully ensure that no visible involvement of US-citizens took place.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/business-mag-expose-says-koch-brother
======================================================================
Can you FOX-ITES and afterBirthers (remember the President showed his long form birthcrtificate) talk about bribery of the Koch Brothers instead of Solyandra now? I bet FOX won't.
Vote the KochFuhrers out of the Senate and the House and educate the T-baggers.
Can you talk about bribery of the Koch Brothers instead of Solyandra now? I bet FOX won't out.

Quartaine the Kochs!!!

I went to our first local Occupy Raleigh GA last night.

A great crowd! Some folks drove down from Manhattan to add support, our local congressman was there, and a rep from SEIU lent his voice and support.

Momentum is building!

Good local news coverage, too!

The last time Republicans destroyed the American economy with their Laissez-Faire economics we ended up with Hoovervilles all over the United States, including Lafayette Park directly across the street from the White House.

This time around Republicans have largely blocked the actions that would bring us out of the latest disaster of Supply Side economics as well as reforms that would prevent a recurrence. How long to they expect to get away with this behavior before people's anger finds an outlet?

Why Chris Christie not run for the White House...
None of the guests on Sunday's morning talk shows could say whether New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie will give it a go and make a bid for the GOP presidential nomination. I think I can. I has every thing to do with his mob boss association.

Meantime, Republican Herman Cain told “Fox News Sunday” that Christie’s views on some issues would “turn off a lot of conservatives.
Well, Hurricaine, you may the flavof of the month; but I can guantee your oreo cokkie ice cream will soon be replacd with another flavor.

And you might want to check out Fox's history on bigotry and put it on full blast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abLG00ls8LY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzXk45An_g&NR=1

Rebel pundit.com
d300.org
boieng NOAA EARTH, Systems, Earth Systems Reserach Laboratories
the Wall St. Journal/multinational corporation wing – which loves illegal immigration because of its use as a source of cheap labor. And while that wing of the party is important because of the financial support it provides,

FIESTY, I see the tea-nuts weere in your neck of the woods.
Lefty Protester Unable to Argue Facts Outside TEACON 2011
http://rebelpundit.com/2011/10/01/lefty-protester-goes-nuts-outside-teacon-2011/

==================================================================

Nothing else really matters -- not foreign policy victories, not enhanced national security, not an improving American economy, and certainly not more jobs. Wait there is sometime---Make President Obama a one term president.
It's nice to know PRESIDENT OBAMA can't be brought by the nke & fifthlty oil stained Koch Brothers
I was just shocked, shocked to see this in a right wing rag...
October 02, 2011
Business Mag Expose Says Koch Brothers Were Supplying Iran In Possible Violation of U.S. Trade Embargo

Next to Jane Mayer's ground breaking piece about the Koch Brothers in the New Yorker, this article by Bloomberg Markets Magazine undoubtedly represents another PR disaster for the Koch Brothers, and could also have severe consequences.

The "Occupy Wall Street" loons are a fairly uninteresting and predictable bunch.

The zeal for totalitarian government amongst some of the “protesters” is shocking. One signed carried around read, “A government is an entity which holds the monopolistic right to initiate force,” which seems a little ironic when protesters complain about being physically assaulted by police in the same breath.

Source: http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-protesters-call-totalitarian-government-re-election-of-obama/

The irony of the ignorant. The Left Wing Loons want the government to do what they want them to do, by any means necessary including force, but complain loudly when the government uses force on them.

Good Morning Feisty:

Looks like we are on the same page in this song book. When one looks at the economic protests in Europe, they too started with a small group of people saying "Enough".

Like GBM says, "We the people" are speaking.

Morning Bev!

Yeah the tea baggers where right next door - even with the beautiful weather, I had to keep the windows & doors shut - the stench was overwhelming! ;o)

PS: NBC5 had a story on it yesterday morning...

Maybe we can meet up there next week?

Isn't it fun to have a historic President?!

Now that we're done with that and got that out of our system, lets get someone that knows what they're doing.

What type of "protesters" are there at Wall Street, for the 'poor and middle class'? Professional rabble rousers . The unions pay well, in fact over 100K, to a professional rabble rouser.

. Among Saturday’s arrestees was one Jeff Rae (@JeffRae), from Washington, DC. Mr. Rae describes himself on Twitter as a “rabble rouser, agitator, organizer, labor activist.

In fact, as many Americans have been losing their jobs and homes during the Great Recession, Mr. Rae has actually seen his income as a professional rabble rouser, agitator, organizer and labor activist increase substantially—from $69,353 in 2008 to $118,534 in 2010.

Mr. Rae also appears to be the same Jeffrey Rae who traveled to Bejing in 2008 and was arrested and detained for six days, as well as traveled to Wisconsin earlier this year.

118,000 salary for being a protester. No doubt with tax dollars....Wonder if he has "tenure"?

Smiffy - do YOU really want to go there about signs at the protests?

Really? Cause if you do, trust me, it will not end well for you...

PS: Notice is was at least spelled correctly... lol

I apologize, but Dick Cheney Won't.

Allow me to clean up my mess in post 1.3

Why Chris Christie not run for the White House...

None of the guests on Sunday's morning talk shows could say whether New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie will give it a go and make a bid for the GOP presidential nomination. I think I can. I has every thing to do with his mob boss association.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/nyregion/24christie.html?pagewanted=all

Meantime, Republican Herman Cain told “Fox News Sunday” that Christie’s views on some issues would “turn off a lot of conservatives.

Well, Hurricaine, you may the flavor of the month; but I can guantee your oreo cokkie ice cream will soon be replacd with another flavor.

And you might want to check out Fox's history on bigotry and put it on full blast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abLG00ls8LY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzXk45An_g&NR=1

I see Joe has nothing to say this morning, so he's trying to change the subject. Typical tea people GOP republican.

BTW: the MSM would rather cover the loud mouth tea people than the wall street protesters. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

We just need a few more taxes, a couple of more regulations, and a six or seven more speeches from The Obama, and this economy will be humming right along.

President Obama should definitely not be afraid of class warfare. It's just the latest GOPTP talking point to convince their faithful followers that the class warfare they (the GOP) has been waging for 30 years against the working class did not happen. The GOP ignores the proof in declining worker wages while CEO pay sky rocketed to name just one; workers asked to sacrifice while CEO's get golden parachutes to go with their huge bonuses and salaries.

Cheers to the Occupy Wall Street group; it's spreading. From the reports I have seen it isn't just liberals, the protesters are a mix of liberals, conservatives, tea party, libertarians. People of every political stripe are angry at the greed and corruption they see.

So you guys all watched the homeless/Zombie Day/Special Olympics parade across the Brooklyn Bridge on Saturday, too?

There's nothing more fun than watching 700 DIRTY, SMELLY HIPPIES being beaten down and arrested by New York's finest!

On Friday, Anna Molly said: The only issue in question is whether a corporation is a person, and thereby entitled to avail itself of that right. Talk about a tortured reading. Show me that in the "penumbra" or anywhere else in the Constitution.

A corporation is not a "natural born" person, but only a legislative construction. A corporation does not come into being naturally. Corporations only come into being if they are artificially created by human beings, according to statutory regulations.

There is no long-standing body of corporate common law that supports reading of the Constitution as protecting corporations the same as individual citizens

__________________________________________________

AM: Have you ever heard of the SC decision in Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co??

I believe it established the precedent that corporations ARE persons under the Constitution as far back as 1886 (emphasis added by me):

When the Supreme Court heard Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co. in 1886, few would have pegged the case as a turning point in constitutional law. The matter at hand seemed highly technical: could California increase the property tax owed by a railroad if the railroad built fences on its property? As it turned out, the Court ruled unanimously in the railroad's favor. And in so doing, the Court casually affirmed the railroad's argument that corporations are "persons" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that no state shall "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." So certain were the justices of the Fourteenth Amendment's applicability that their opinion did not engage the issue, but the Court reporter recorded the justices' perspective on the topic:

Before argument Mr. Chief Justice Waite said: 'The Court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution which forbids a state to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws applies to these corporations. We are all of opinion that it does.'

That statement marks the origin of the view that corporations are persons as a matter of constitutional law. This played a central role in the 2010 decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which struck down portions of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act that restricted corporate spending on electioneering communications in the run-up to a federal election. The Court declared that Congress could not discriminate between electioneering communications according to the identity of the speaker: since individual human beings clearly have a First Amendment right to speak about candidates during the election process, so too must corporations.

What WILL the Republicans do when they run completely out of potentially viable candidates?

Oh, I know.

Herman Cain.

LoL

Well, at least Republican women are happy.

Although WHY they're happy completely escapes me.

And somewhere, perennial government employee Vladimir Putin is licking his chops at the prospect of negotiating a nuclear arms treaty with the private sector Pizza King.

Thanks for the link Feisty.

Ron said, "To protest Wall Street greed in every major city in America will make the Boston Tea Party of 1773 look like small potatoes".

This is what a real grassroots movement looks like.

Unlike the pseudo-'movement' called the Tea Party.

"Starting today, liberals and progressives will gather in DC for the three-day “Take Back the American Dream Conference.”

"America is rich – still the wealthiest nation ever. But too many at the top are grabbing the gains. No person or corporation should be allowed to take from America while giving little or nothing back. The super-rich who got tax breaks and bailouts should now pay full taxes – and help create jobs here, not overseas. Those who do well in America should do well by America."

http://contract.rebuildthedream.com/

Efforts begin to tar the Occupy Wall Street protesters as the farthest fringes of society, people who can be safely ignored and if necessary put down by any means necessary.

This PR effort by Conservatives ignores the fact that over 700 airline pilots have taken part in the protests. These are responsible individuals, people with the lives of many others in their hands every day as they perform their jobs. The overwhelming majority are military veterans. These are the "fringes" who Conservatives misrepresent in an attempt to pretend the American people aren't sick of their failed policies and angry at their slavish devotion to the wealthy elites. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/09/29/union-airline-pilots-occupy-wall-street/

The Occupy Wall Street folks aren't crazy, they aren't kooks. They're ordinary Americans who are resisting Conservative plans to impoverish the entire middle class, create a class-based society in our nation, and destroy the things that make us a great nation.

“rabble rouser, agitator, organizer, labor activist

Are those new words Luntz, Limbaugh (racist) and Fox (aka tea people GOP republican propaganda machine) are testing this morning Bob? Were they approved by Rove? Like everything else you've tried, they'll fall short on the average American, but the tea people will eat them up.

For Christie, Family Tie No Candidate Can Relish

By DAVID M. HALBFINGER and DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI

Published: September 23 2009

For Christopher J. Christie, it was inescapably an uncomfortable family connection. Tino Fiumara, the brother of his aunt’s husband, was a fearsome and ranking member of the Genovese crime family: twice convicted of racketeering, sentenced to 25 years in federal prison, and linked by investigators to several grisly murders, including one in which a victim was strangled with piano wire.

Mr. Christie, 47, who rose from a boyhood in Livingston to become a corporate lawyer, then United States attorney in New Jersey and now the Republican candidate for governor of New Jersey, does not appear to have talked much about Mr. Fiumara over the years.

He once acknowledged bumping into his uncle’s brother at a restaurant in the mid-1990s. And there was a 1991 visit Mr. Christie made to a Texas prison to see Mr. Fiumara — at the request, Mr. Christie said, of a relative.

But when Mr. Christie became New Jersey’s top federal prosecutor in January 2002, his distant tie became a potential problem. Mr. Fiumara was already under investigation by the federal prosecutor’s office for aiding the flight of a fugitive suspected of murder.

Mr. Christie recused himself from the case. Mr. Fiumara was arrested that April. Prosecutors and defense lawyers say Mr. Christie was never involved in any way.

But Mr. Christie, whose office issued news releases about a plea bargain and Mr. Fiumara’s eight-month prison sentence, never revealed his connection to the defendant or his sensitive decision to distance himself from the handling of the case.

“My view at the time was, I had had nothing to do with the case, I’d had no involvement with it, and I didn’t think it was of any import to anyone why I’d recused,” he said in an interview. “It was a personal matter; it was not a professional matter.”

Mr. Christie says his relationship to Mr. Fiumara never came up in his F.B.I. background check after his appointment as United States attorney, and he never raised it, though he says he assumed investigators were aware of it.

So as he runs for governor, the connection to one of the state’s more notorious and violent gangsters emerges as a somewhat startling footnote in the biography of a man who has built his campaign, and career, as a crime fighter.

Mr. Christie says that as United States attorney he was always tough on organized crime, though it did not rank as high among his priorities as public corruption, terrorism, violent street gangs

or human trafficking did. And he says he stands by a 2007 remark that “the Mafia is much more prominent on HBO than in New Jersey.”

Mr. Fiumara’s older brother, John, who lived in Livingston, a mile from the Christie home, was the second husband of Mr. Christie’s aunt, Mr. Christie said. He said that he recalled seeing Tino Fiumara at large parties at his aunt’s home when he was a boy.

By then, Mr. Fiumara had built an extensive and violent résumé in the underworld. Jerry Capeci of GangLandNews.com, has reported that Mr. Fiumara cut his teeth in the late 1960’s working for Ruggiero Boiardo, a top Genovese crime family member in New Jersey, known as Richie the Boot, who lived in a sprawling Livingston estate that became a model for the suburban home of the fictional character Tony Soprano.

===================================================

So Chris Matthews, whom I'm a fan of might want to change his affection for the fat governor over in Soprano land.

Can Gov. Krispe Kreme push his weight around after this revelation?

Hmmmmmmm...... Is that very old rock any different than the 4 buildings coming into my neighborhood. That currently display some colorful language about several races and genders! One of them makes a reference to Caucasian women and her Ample booty!

I think I read that Michael Moore is involved in this Soros-funded fiasco. That's pretty much all you need to know about that. If people like Moore and Soros got their wish and everybody was forced to be equally poor and miserable under communism, would they agree to give up their wealth and be miserable with the rest of us? Doubt it. But by the time all these lefty chumps figured that out, it would be too late.

Backhouse: I enjoy reading your posts. Keep up the good work.

"Happiness is a Democratic sweep in the House, Senate and White House in 2012."

Sorry, California Tom.

Delusional is what a Democratic sweep in the House, Senate and White House in 2012 actually is.

The electorate has already seen and endured the House, Senate, and the White House under Democratic control.

And, they didn't like it...not one bit. That's what the 2010 midterms were all about, Tom.

Democrats should consider themselves fortunate if they manage to avoid a GOP sweep in November, 2012.

"It's the economy, stupid."

-James Carville-

ABC and Yahoo joined up to take questions on Yahoo to present to President Obama if anyone is interested.

Organized labor will be attending later on in the week!

I wonder will this be public sector organized labor or private sector organized labor.

Perhaps you activists can confirm a statement I heard over the weekend. Over a third of delegates to the Democratic National Convention are members of the teaching unions? If true this would explain why a "jobs bill" or stimulus does not allocate a majority of it's money to infrastructure, but maintains the deficit spending of state governments.

While some of our Conservative posters work to destroy the reputations of the ordinary Americans protesting Wall Street dominance over our society, others are trying to rewrite history to make it seem as if this has always been the case. Corporate personhood is something that has been consistently resisted through the history of the United States, always limited until the advent of the corrupt and radical Roberts court.

When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation, our country's founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end.

The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these:

* Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

* Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

* Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

* Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

* Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

* Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

For 100 years after the American Revolution, legislators maintained tight controll of the corporate chartering process. Because of widespread public opposition, early legislators granted very few corporate charters, and only after debate. Citizens governed corporations by detailing operating conditions not just in charters but also in state constitutions and state laws. Incorporated businesses were prohibited from taking any action that legislators did not specifically allow.

The above and much more on the subject here; http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history_corporations_us.html

John B., DesMoines: This PR effort by Conservatives ignores the fact that over 700 airline pilots have taken part in the protests

Too bad they were not associated with the left wing fanatical Marxists with no jobs and no lives. Cause you see John, others can protest at the same time, in the same place, but for other things.

But nice attempt at spinning it.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Morning Bev!

Yeah the tea baggers where right next door - even with the beautiful weather, I had to keep the windows & doors shut - the stench was overwhelming! ;o)

PS: NBC5 had a story on it yesterday morning...

Maybe we can meet up there next week?

Consider it done GF. Let's also call the local media to be there

@ Albany Joe ~

I don't care what they said in "dicta" in Santa Clara County, with which I am familiar. A corporation is NOT a person. It is a "legal fiction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction

Persons, unless they are severely disabled, think and act for themselves. A corporation can NEVER act for itself. Only persons can act FOR the corporation.

A corporation does not exist independently of the persons who comprise it. And those persons already have rights under the 14th Amendment.

What more do you need, Joe?

Santa Clara County was wrong to casually acknowledge corporations as persons; Citizens United was wrong to build on that.

It wouldn't be the first time the Supreme Court was wrong, Joe. Or do you believe Plessy v. Ferguson was right, too? And from your perspective, I could also throw in Griswold v. Connecticut, Roe v. Wade, and Lawrence v. Texas, three cases in which the Court came down firmly on the side of the individual's Constitutional right to privacy, something you appear to believe does not exist.

And do you know WHY the Court can make mistakes, Joe?

Too easy. Because the Court is not a "supreme" being of some kind. It is made up of persons, and persons are fallible.

Joe -- Put the ruling aside and answer this... Do you support the idea of unlimited amounts of money being spent on a politician? Instead of having a few months of very bad ads every two minutes we will now have to endure a years worth of this crap and you like that idea?

Anna Molly -- Amen.

So Bev, using the old "all Italian-Americans have a mob connection" slur, eh? Tell me Bev; any criminals in your extended family? I'll bet $1000 there are. Maybe your "aunt's-husband's brother?" Tell us Bev. When was the last time you or anyone in your family used the slur that is inscribed on the rock at that hunting camp? Be honest. I hate the word "ni**er." Problem is, when I hear people say it (at least a dozen times a day), I'm not allowed to call the person out on it because they are ALWAYS Black. Strange, isn't it? Now tell us...anyone in your extended family (including in-laws) benn convicted of any crimes in the last 30 years or use the "N word"?

Happiness

Hallucination is a Democratic sweep in the House, Senate and White House in 2012.

Obama in 2013 goes back to Chicago.

You heard it here first! Last week I asked Dom and Mark to explain Mayor Bloomberg's comment on Meet The Press:

If you're a bank and you have money, would you make a loan when people are talking about putting you in jail for what happened in the mortgage crisis three, four years ago? You hunker down

The Mayor's comment struck me as odd, as did other things I've been hearing from Maria Bartiromo, which seems to suggest Wall Street is holding job-creation hostage until it gets what it wants: low taxes for the rich and a return to the kind of de-regulation and outrageous bonus structure that lead to the financial crisis in the first place. I'm glad to see people occupying Wall Street to force the power-that-be for some accountability.

Until Article V of the Constitution is used to change the language in the First Amendment to read

"Congress shall make no law..... abridging the freedom of speech except for corporations and anyone else lefty liberals want to muzzle"

I will believe the actual text of the Constitution as it's currently written: "Congress shall make no law..... abridging the freedom of speech,"

Those 10 words are pretty clear to me.

AM: It wouldn't be the first time the Supreme Court was wrong,

Now we're down to this for Annie Molly. People having hissy fits didn't work, recall elections didn't work, smearing state Supreme Court justices didn't work, vote recounts didn't work, getting enough recall signatures to challenge a sitting governor didn't work. Now, it's just that the courts are "wrong".

Reality escapes the Liberal "mind".

700 DIRTY, SMELLY HIPPIES

___________________________________________

LOL!!!

Apparently, canibalism is OK with some of them. The funniest sign I saw on the news over the weekend was:

EAT THE RICH

BTW, will they be protesting at St. Warren of the Left's next Berkshire Hathaway annual stockholder's meeting which goes by the nickname "Woodstock for Capitalists"??

Joe in Albany -- In case you don't scroll down here is the link to the Buffett interview on CNN. Friday you asked about Buffett.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/30/news/economy/buffett_rule_taxes/index.htm?iid=HP_River

Damage123

So Bev, using the old "all Italian-Americans have a mob connection" slur, eh? Tell me Bev; any criminals in your extended family? I'll bet $1000 there are. Maybe your "aunt's-husband's brother?" Tell us Bev. When was the last time you or anyone in your family used the slur that is inscribed on the rock at that hunting camp? Be honest. I hate the word "ni**er." Problem is, when I hear people say it (at least a dozen times a day), I'm not allowed to call the person out on it because they are ALWAYS Black. Strange, isn't it? Now tell us...anyone in your extended family (including in-laws) benn convicted of any crimes in the last 30 years or use the "N word

Damage

None of my family, to my knowledge are gangstas. We are educated Black people. Those who didn't finish college are hard working Middle class . Most work in the public sector and are unionized. As far as the "N" goes, of course we do at times. It has been a term of endearment since slavery.

Unfortunately, you wouldn't understand. It is a "Black thing".

Why do rednecks relish being called rednecks? Other ethic groups have terms they deem offensive too only they can use

JoAnnaSmith1

The "Occupy Wall Street" loons are a fairly uninteresting and predictable bunch.

The zeal for totalitarian government amongst some of the “protesters” is shocking. One signed carried around read, “A government is an entity which holds the monopolistic right to initiate force,” which seems a little ironic when protesters complain about being physically assaulted by police in the same breath.

I would wager that the protester holding that sign was not too happy about the government's use of force. But if there really is any irony there, it pales in comparison to the teabaggers waving signs saying "Get your your dirty government hands off my Medicare."

DOUCHEBAG PARTY SHUT IT! That's the point. Perry needs an actual answer for this thing, not 'Way back in 1983...' 1983? You mean after the civil rights movement had been 15 years in the past? If you were a racist in 1983, you were going to be a racist in 2008 and 2012. Now, I didn't say that Perry WAS. But when you come up with a lame answer like 1983, you sound like a Douchebagger and a racist. In other words, get out of the Republican Party.

Regarding the Wall Street protests, LOL. Don't mind if I have a huge laugh at the fabrication that the movement is growing. Look, it SHOULD grow. It makes SENSE to grow. But it isn't growing.

I went down and saw the protest Saturday night.

Here's the deal: The protestors are very dedicated. They are expressing themselves and certainly have a better cause than the Douchebag Partiers (who want small government but who are against protesting Wall Street. That's known as being Full Of S**T). There, however, are really not a ton of protestors and they have NOT grown in size. In a sense, it is sort of a siege in that they can fill your TV screen with all their faces. ALL your news agencies are FOS as well, for telling you how big it is, because they want you to think it is a massive movement and that it was worth putting on the air right next to the Amanda Knox BS.

The newsworthiness of it is there probably should be more protestors. But make no mistake, there is no 'growing movement' other than what you ate for breakfast today.

FR Conservatives just keep making Feisty and Ron's points over and over this morning. In the view of the GOPTP real people are insignificant beings who are to be disregarded if they disagree with the wealthy elites. The artificial construct of a corporate person, however, has rights that trump all others and an enviable ability to buy influence that must be preserved.

Just a point of information for the Albany ideologue, the guy who is so knowledgeable in all things constitutional. The jobs bill as proposed and outlined by President Obama is a revenue bill. ALL revenue bills MUST originate in the House.

Joe in Albany

Until Article V of the Constitution is used to change the language in the First Amendment to read

"Congress shall make no law..... abridging the freedom of speech except for corporations and anyone else lefty liberals want to muzzle"

Maybe if someone stood outside Joe's window all night with a bullhorn shouting "Joe is a Jerk!", that might cure him of his absolutist tendencies. People have a right to free speech. Despite what Mitt Romney says, corporations are not people.

Post #1 No sign of human Intelligence....

Some friends of mine and myself have committed to showing our solidarity for occupying Wall St., we are boycotting "Black Friday". We are saying no to corporate greed, by not feeding the machine on it's busiest day.

Joe in Albany

700 DIRTY, SMELLY HIPPIES

___________________________________________

LOL!!!

Apparently, canibalism is OK with some of them. The funniest sign I saw on the news over the weekend was:

EAT THE RICH

The foundation of the Constitution is the notion that all men are created equal. No amount of stretching, twisting, spinning, or torturing the language of the Constitution is going to make a corporation a man; a living, breathing man. It is a paper creation, no more and no less.

Judge Joey:

I will believe the actual text of the Constitution as it's currently written: "Congress shall make no law..... abridging the freedom of speech,"

But WHOSE freedom of speech? The First Amendment doesn't mention corporations, Joe.

Those 10 words are pretty clear to me.

Me, too. Very clear.

And all we've established is that persons have freedom of speech. We still have no textual support for corporations as persons; only casual reference in dicta in an obscure 19th Century case.

But keep trying, Joe. You know I love it. ;-)

Ron thanks, you describe this "group who are opposed to the greed and corruption generated by the richest 1 % of Americans. They are not happy when corporate America and the wealthy pay fewer taxes than Main Street Americans".

Also significant to me, is that you're physically there & watching this group grow day by day with your own eyes. Pls post us updates when you can and thanks.

Just a point of information for the Albany ideologue, the guy who is so knowledgeable in all things constitutional. The jobs bill as proposed and outlined by President Obama is a revenue bill. ALL revenue bills MUST originate in the House.

______________________________________________

Tell it to MSDNC.com. It's their story I was quoting.

But WHOSE freedom of speech? The First Amendment doesn't mention corporations, Joe.

__________________________________________

And it doesn't mention "people" either. What's your point??

The First Amendment is a restriction on the power of Congress to pass laws abridging freedom of speech. As I said, those 10 words are pretty clear to me, and until you get the First Amendment language revised to exclude corporations from its protection, Congress is prohibited from abridging their freedom of speech.

Maybe, like your opinion on certain SC decisions you don't like, the First Amendment is "wrong" too??

Just a point of information for the Albany ideologue, the guy who is so knowledgeable in all things constitutional. The jobs bill as proposed and outlined by President Obama is a revenue bill. ALL revenue bills MUST originate in the House.

______________________________________________

There is a big difference David,

Revenue bills originated in the House are intended to generate revenue for the federal government ..... not unions, billionaire Obama bundlers and the rest of Obama's re-election "infrastructure."

I wouldnt be surprised if just like the anti war protestors from the Bush era, that many of these are professional paid agitators sponsored by a plantiffs legal aid or law firm intending to file class action law suits against the cities and municipalities. This is likely to be using impressionable people with nothing to do so they can make money for lawyers. It is kind of interesting to think that all of these protestors especially state union employees are forcing city governments that already have huge shortfalls in their budgets to pay for union benefits are forcing them to pay millions in additional overtime for police and city workers to clean up after them. In essence they are making their own cause worse by taking money that could be used to pay for themselves.

Its interesting to see the comments on here given the pictures and interviews with these protestors compared to the Tea Party protestors and somehow you progressives think the Tea Party people are uneducated rubes? Come on are you kidding? One movement is for fiscal sanity and the other anarchy, socialism and kill anyone who is successful? Wow what has this country come to.

Also significant to me, is that you're physically there & watching this group grow day by day with your own eyes. Pls post us updates when you can and thanks.

Yes, yes, you probably didn't see what I posted.

Growing, NO.

Movement, yes.

Was there Saturday night. Anyway, read above. Don't want to post everything again.

Does any of this demonstration remind any other of you Vietnam era vets of the home coming we all got from these very same people(or their offspring)? I had two set of clothes ruined by blood filled condoms/balloons. Rubber bullets and tear gas ........away!

Bev: I had to vote for your post #1.57!!!

I really wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the Tea Party people moved over to the Occupy movement. The TP rhetoric and appeal is getting stale and Occupy has the populist angle that could be a big draw. Also, I think a lot of the TP people are "followers" that just like being part of something big but sill want to be seen as leaders and independent thinkers so this could be a logical migration.

If this does happen, the GOP will be shaking in their boots since they sold their souls to get on board totally with the Tea Party, but there's no way they will line up with the Occupy bunch.

JoAnnaSmith1 says:

Isn't it fun to have a historic President?! Now that we're done with that and got that out of our system, lets get someone that knows what they're doing.

On the contrary, the GOP/TP demonstrate by their attack of the "historic" President, that there is no "getting it out of our system". Stuff that has been "in the system" of this country since the very beginning and should NEVER have been there to begin with. So yes, my question still remains: when are people going to finally get all of the this bigotry, hatred and bias "out of their system"? It has reared its' ugly head in unprecedented ways through the actions and rhetoric of the right wing with the election of our "historic" President and continues to be a destructive force hurting us all.

Bob lotsanumbers:

Even for you, that's a ridiculous stretch. If you are looking for some simple demarcation between revenue and non-revenue bills, you might take a look at bills which may be passed under reconciliation, and those that may not.

What the President proposed is all about revenue for the government with respect to revenues it may raise and with respect to how those revenues may be raised. Come on, don't go off on those ridiculous union and billionaire bundler tangents. Those are silly talking points that have no foundation in reality.

Somehow this reply was posted at 3.whatever. It was a response to 1.63.

jollyoldsoul1: No, none of the protestors reminded me of the a-holes who did what they did to the Vietnam vets. And, quite frankly, I think one of the major accomplishments of protesting is that the scum treatment of our vets has transformed into an appreciation of our military men and women. Sure, there are some leftover scum, probably the kids of parents who never want to admit that what they did as wrong. But when it comes to actions people disagree with, maybe the Iraq invasion, maybe Libya, people don't blame the common soldier anymore. They blame the proper people; in other words, the politicians who sent them there.

Beverly in Chicago

Apparently, canibalism is OK with some of them. The funniest sign I saw on the news over the weekend was:

EAT THE RICH

The funniest sign I saw on the news was:

IT ISN'T CLASS WARFARE IF YOU DON'T FIGHT BACK

Mike: I really wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the Tea Party people moved over to the Occupy movement.

Why would you even think about believing such a thing? The Tea Party core principles are about limited government, fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, and governing with virtue and accountability.

The Occupy crowd is on an entirely different track with them favoring an even more intrusive centralized government controlling an every increasing amount of Americans lives.

It's doubtful the Tea Party would have much in common with the totalitarianism vision of the Occupy crowd.

Got to love all the Obama supporters who embrace blaming someone else for their failures in life, which is why they're not "rich", instead of taking responsibilty for themselves.

Greed over Need...ha.

Better than the liberal/Democrat loser mantra of "Take wealth over make wealth".

Obama is toast.

One thing I think the two groups have in common is that the both possibly oppose the bank bailouts. (But it is a guess on my part as I do not presume to speak for either group)

I do support anyone's right to protest. Perhaps if we made the issue TAX REFORM that would take the power out of Congresses hands to manipulate us via tax favors we would get millions marching!!! : )

JoAnnaSmith1

Mike: I really wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the Tea Party people moved over to the Occupy movement.

Why would you even think about believing such a thing? The Tea Party core principles are about limited government, fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, and governing with virtue and accountability.

As if we all don't know those are code words for: Lay off government workers (limited government), cut core government programs while giving tax cuts to the rich and eliminating tax breaks for the middleclass and poor (fiscal restraint), don't help anyone but the rich (personal responsibility - but no responsibility to have health insurance), and corporate unlimited campaign contributions, ear marks, and the Patriot Act (governing with virtue and responsibility).

Of course, Republican right-wingers and the Tea Party know they can't tell you what they really want, so they use terms like that above and "premium assistance" for Medical insurance vouchers for Medicare that pay 1/2 of the premiums.

Scita: One thing I think the two groups have in common is that the both possibly oppose the bank bailouts.

But for very different reasons. The Tea Party opposed the bank bailouts because they believe the banks should be held accountable for their errors up to and including them going out of business. The Tea Party believes market forces will prevail with better run banks consuming the business of poorly run banks.

The Occupy crowd just hates banks.

Oh, Chris, Cranberry, you know you love ZOMBIES!

Good morning, Ron. Well put together narrative in 1.2. The only thing that really bother's me about the tax the rich agenda is that they are going after the wrong tax. The uber-wealthy tax rate is mostly based on Capital gains, which includes stock options that the protesters are opposing. I'm not even sure that those protesting know that.

As a person that pays 33% to the fed, and 8% to the state, I would really like to see Obama, while citing Warren Buffet's secretary analogy set the tax story straight. And by focusing in income tax rates, raising those will not change Buffet's tax %.

I do believe that there is some room to consider tax rates when applied to a good percentage of benefits which could lead to some form of financial revenue relief.

Just my 2 cents.......And with a final comment. At least the Republican's candidates have muscled out Bachmann from the headlines. Although I have to admit, I'm starting to miss her political gaffs. Hopefully she will remain in the top 7 long enough to give more fodder to the writers at Saturday Night Live.

Freedom of speech is only good if you agree with the message is that what you are saying JAS1???

StC: As if we all don't know those are code words for:

Code words? Hardly. Have you noticed the deficits the country is running StC? Have you noticed that the more the government intrudes on businesses that there are less jobs? How you noticed that the more the government spends, the worse off American become? Now either the government, and mostly Obama, get off their populist rhetoric of blaming the corporations for their own poor performance and start working with private industry rather than against it, we're going to continue to see high unemployment, increasing poverty, more need for already strained government social programs, and the need to further cut back on government as the money runs out.

The government cannot solve all the problems of the country StC. In fact it looks like it can't solve much of any problem. You don't seem to be aware of that fact.

Judge Joey:

Maybe, like your opinion on certain SC decisions you don't like, the First Amendment is "wrong" too??

You know that I'm not making an argument that the First Amendment is wrong. I'm making an argument that it's wrong to apply the First Amendment to legal fictions, like corporations, who can only act through persons who already have Constitutional rights.

But you know, now that you mention it, unions are legal fictions, too. I guess that means you'll have to acknowledge THEIR free speech rights and THEIR First Amendment right to assemble and organize.

Come to think of it, YOUR reading of the First Amendment would actually SUPPORT those liberals who argue that unions have a Constitutional right to exist and collectively bargain. Because bargaining is obviously a form of speech.

But hey, if you want to keep arguing that whatever the Supreme Court says at any given time is true, that's fine.

You realize, of course, that if you do, you're also stuck with the "penumbra," aren't you?

And everything that goes with that.

Landoran

Got to love all the Obama supporters who embrace blaming someone else for their failures in life, which is why they're not "rich", instead of taking responsibilty for themselves.

Landoran, I don't think anyone here has a problem with someone getting rich. However, being rich doesn't mean you get coddled and absolved from any responsibility, especially using the excuse of being a "job creator". After all, if it weren't for those consumers and workers (who turn capital into products), we wouldn't have any rich people or coporations.

An example of the crap that goes on in that realm.... it seems business benefits greatly from government handouts....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/us/lawmakers-want-to-end-tax-breaks-if-they-can-agree-what-they-are.html?_r=1&hp

"Hiya kids, hiya, hiya!" Froggy

Romney/Cain 2012? I could happen.

Protesters in the streets? TAKE AMERICA BACK? Just say "no" to THUGS?"

Well, I guess it's time for Grandpa to dust off that ol' guitar. Time to sing a few protest songs with the youngsters. Why, I remember back in '69. The big national day of protest. I sang to a crowd of over five hundred on the campus of Tulsa University and when the football team cut the power supply for the sound system I moved out into the crowd and sang with them all around me. Ah, those were the days my friends.

"Come on all you big strong men,

Uncle Sam needs our help again!

..it's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for?

I'm fighting for the poor, and I'll tell you one thing more!

That the G, O, P, better just back off now,

This ain't no time to go to class,

We're saving the middle class." (with apologies to Country Joe McDonald)

America Held Hostage, day 276

Obama/Biden 2012

But you know, now that you mention it, unions are legal fictions, too. I guess that means you'll have to acknowledge THEIR free speech rights and THEIR First Amendment right to assemble and organize.

_______________________________________

AM: what makes you think I have any problem with that??

I don't.

JoAnnaSmith1

Code words? Hardly. Have you noticed the deficits the country is running StC? Have you noticed that the more the government intrudes on businesses that there are less jobs? How you noticed that the more the government spends, the worse off American become? Now either the government, and mostly Obama, get off their populist rhetoric of blaming the corporations for their own poor performance and start working with private industry rather than against it, we're going to continue to see high unemployment, increasing poverty, more need for already strained government social programs, and the need to further cut back on government as the money runs out.

There wasn't any problem running up debt until a Democrat got into office (and we were in an economic tail-spin). Democrats believe cuts and revenues are needed. I haven't bought an American company car in 30 years, Democrats don't have any problem working with private industry. I was smart enough to know what NOT bailing out the banks would do, I don't have any problem attaching "conditions" or "covenants" to those bailouts. I hammer the Republicans under Bush (and Obama) all the time for not taking care of the housing crisis IMMEDIATELY, and it was DEMOCRATS that wanted a "grand bargain" (and Republicans that ran away).

If Republicans take control and put their policies in place things will only get worse and the gap between rich and poor will only get larger.

Derek-381097 Perry needs an actual answer for this thing, not 'Way back in 1983...' 1983? You mean after the civil rights movement had been 15 years in the past? If you were a racist in 1983, you were going to be a racist in 2008 and 2012.

Ahhh...don't we just love double standards? Obama attended a church for 20 years that preached that the "white man is the devil" and things like "GOD DAMN AMERICA!!" But...well...that's O.K. right?

Perry goes to a place to hunt where some redneck had painted an unflattering name on rock..and OH MY GOD!!

Grow up you bunch of weak kneed pansies. Yawn.

The ASSumption of machinehead is that somehow I think it was okay for Obama to not answer questions about his preacher, and that I already wrote off Perry for the rock.

Follow your own advice, Machinehead, you know the one about being a flower.

Jolly -- Had I been old enough (just a tot back then) I would have exercised my right to counter protest those that did that to our soldiers. Today a movement to counter protest that group that protests at soldiers funerals with extremely vile slogans are being drowned out by angels. Thank God.

Derek-38 -Obama should be forced to answer MANY things, from hie ASSociations with terrorists, communists, America-haters of several kinds, his college transcripts, and on, and on, and on. The media in this country, which is now just the Marxist propaganda arm for the democrats has not only failed its duty to inform, but is complicit in the cover-up.

I don't think for a minute that you have any concern for truth. You're just a leftist troll.

machinehead

Derek-381097 Perry needs an actual answer for this thing, not 'Way back in 1983...' 1983? You mean after the civil rights movement had been 15 years in the past? If you were a racist in 1983, you were going to be a racist in 2008 and 2012.

Ahhh...don't we just love double standards? Obama attended a church for 20 years that preached that the "white man is the devil" and things like "GOD DAMN AMERICA!!" But...well...that's O.K. right?

Who told you that Wright preached that the "white man is the devil" for 20 years? Whoever told you that Wright ever said that EVER? Wright made inflammatory statements from the pulpit from time to time, but not that one and nothing that was so blatantly racist. Besides that, there's zero evidence that Obama was even present when Wright went over the line, despite frantic attempts by wingnuts to pour through old video clips of sermons to see if they could find Obama in the audience. And none of Wright's comments were painted on signs in front of the church and left there for years.

As for Perry, it's really irrelevant whether or not he took politicians to the camp site. Since he brags about his upbringing in that part of the state, voters should be aware about how racism permeated the culture he was brought up in. Even in the Washington Post article, people living there today seem to think it was no big deal to have an offensive racist obscenity for a local place name. And Texas, by the way, is the state that's going to start issuing license plates with the Confederate flag on it. The folks in Perry's home town will no doubt be displaying them proudly.

JoAnnaSmith1

The "Occupy Wall Street" loons are a fairly uninteresting and predictable bunch.

The zeal for totalitarian government amongst some of the “protesters” is shocking. One signed carried around read, “A government is an entity which holds the monopolistic right to initiate force,” which seems a little ironic when protesters complain about being physically assaulted by police in the same breath.

Source: http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-protesters-call-totalitarian-government-re-election-of-obama/

The irony of the ignorant. The Left Wing Loons want the government to do what they want them to do, by any means necessary including force, but complain loudly when the government uses force on them.

Worth asking again, I guess. I'll change the wording a bit ...

Do you have anything of value to add to the national conversation, or just hate rhetoric?

Judge Joey:

AM: what makes you think I have any problem with that??

I don't.

Well, well. Score one for the little brown-haired girl.

Now, how about the penumbra? ;-)

machinehead

Derek-38 -Obama should be forced to answer MANY things, from hie ASSociations with terrorists, communists, America-haters of several kinds, his college transcripts, and on, and on, and on. The media in this country, which is now just the Marxist propaganda arm for the democrats has not only failed its duty to inform, but is complicit in the cover-up.

I don't think for a minute that you have any concern for truth. You're just a leftist troll.

... and the continued misuse of "Marxism" continues. Either that, or you simply don't know what it means. Which are you going to admit to: deliberate disinformation or ignorance?

After the years of Reagan, Bush and Bush, I would be very, VERY careful of making any allusions to dealing with terrorists.

You sir, are the one clearly with no interest in the truth. Your primary interest is continued hate against Mr. Obama.

[Source: http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-protesters-call-totalitarian-government-re-election-of-obama/]

Wait...what?

Did Smuffy just quote INFOWARS?!?

I thought I smelled desperation, then I realized that Smuffy Smiff just crapped her drawers with that one.

...really...InfoWars, Smiffy...INFOWARS?

You're not even trying anymore, are you...

...here's your sign...

Oh, machinehead, I can only consider you must be part of the Douschebag Party, and I'll jump to that conclusion since you like to jump to yours. Welcome to finding out what being a conservative is, since it is obvious you don't know.

It blows my mind...some of the racist comments coming from Beverly in Chicago. Calling the black republican candidate for president oreo cookie? Saying people wouldn't understand because it's a "black thing"? I thought the far left discouraged that kind of thing. :(

I made the following notes while reading through the posts regarding the Wall Street protesters:

"hopeless/Zombie/Special Olympics parade; Soros-funded; Michael Moore (apparently just his name is enough of an insult); left wing, fanatical Marxists with no jobs and no lives; dirty, smelly hippies; professional agitators; totalitarianism vision"

OMG. I just had a flashback to Nixon v. the Vietnam protestors. Really? This is all you got?

And this morning's award for sheer arrogance and chutzpah goes to YouJustSaidWhat.......a member of the left wing radicals, accusing a conservative of hate speech! I mean, all you have to do is read this site regularly, or turn on any MSM outlet; the left invoked hate speech as a primary weapon during the eight Bush years. Now they continue to use it, because they have no accomplishments or even proposals to to employ in a civilized discussion. Hypocrite!

Joe one big difference between unions and corporations is that unions are non profits, they can not profit from members dues, every bit of dues money has to be spent on the operating expenses of the local union, it can not be spent on anything other than that, extra monies if there are any can be held in reserve for leaner times as we now see, but no persons can take a share of profit from union dues. Corporations are only interested, and function to derive maximum profit from their activities, and huge chunks of that profit go to a small number of individuals, like the CEO, board members, and other executives.

When you think about it and watch his behaviour, Christie acts just like a gangster.

I thought the GOP were the racist? Apparently, the tea-bagged haven't been looking at their own house lately.

Beverly in Chicago

Meantime, Republican Herman Cain told “Fox News Sunday” that Christie’s views on some issues would “turn off a lot of conservatives.

Well, Hurricaine, you may the flavor of the month; but I can guantee your oreo cokkie ice cream will soon be replacd with another flavor.

"Morning Feisty"

"Goodmorning Bev..."

"Morning Joe"

....Good Grief, ya gotta completely SKIP the first half of this thread to get to any substance (never seems to be that bunch).

spider-737231

And this morning's award for sheer arrogance and chutzpah goes to YouJustSaidWhat.......a member of the left wing radicals, accusing a conservative of hate speech! I mean, all you have to do is read this site regularly, or turn on any MSM outlet; the left invoked hate speech as a primary weapon during the eight Bush years. Now they continue to use it, because they have no accomplishments or even proposals to to employ in a civilized discussion. Hypocrite!

Swing and a miss. You have to work harder to get a rise out of me, spider. Since you didn't provide a quote, I can only speculate at the what you're talking about. Did you read what I wrote, and what I responded to? Here's a refresher ...

Someone made allusion to Mr. Obama having terrorist ties. I simply point out the irony of such a statement in light of the shady dealings of Reagan, Bush and Bush.

As for irony: name calling certainly puts you right smack in the category.

Come at me, brah. Work harder.

i think it is so funny how 90% 0f the people on here pass the buck , how many times have we seen seen racist remarks paint on the side of a building by a back person ? yet it does not stop other blacks from going there. so what is the big deal?

Obama is most likely a one trem President that is a simple fact cry,yell , blame everyone else but the fact is he is not that good . blame Bush all you want wont change the fact that Obama has not fixed anything not even close.

Houston! - Who told you that Wright preached that the "white man is the devil" for 20 years? Whoever told you that Wright ever said that EVER? Wright made inflammatory statements from the pulpit from time to time, but not that one and nothing that was so blatantly racist.

Baloney! I watched the video of Jeremiah Wright screaming "...no,no,no...Not God bless America.. but GOD DAMN AMERICA!!" He is a vile racist who preaches "Black liberation Theology" whose main platform is that Whites are evil. Look him up on Youtube and watch some of his racist drivel yourself.

Besides that, there's zero evidence that Obama was even present when Wright went over the line, despite frantic attempts by wingnuts to pour through old video clips of sermons to see if they could find Obama in the audience.

Obama attended (and obviously approved of the message) for 20 years. He admitted as much. Don't expect anyone to buy into the lie that Obama never heard any of this. He evidently strongly agreed.

Following is a excerpt from a story in the Washington Times about Wright, and other Black Liberation Theology nutcases. It's worth a read. Next time, know what the hell you're talking about!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/26/obamas-black-nationalism/?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4db8d517296534fc,0

"...Yet, none of this matters to Mr. Smith and other black nationalists, such as Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the infamous Mr. Wright. This is because black nationalism is an outgrowth of 1960s chic radicalism. It is racialism disguised as progressive politics. It combines socialism with xenophobic tribalism. For racialists like Mr. Smith, reality must not be allowed to puncture their central myth: The white man is the devil...."

N*****head is a large rock or boulder, also found in Kansas, Kentucky and even Australia. It has also been a name used for the plant Echinacia (sp?). Not a Perry fan at all, just saying that what something was called years ago, painted over years ago, on land that neither he nor his family owned or installed is, in a sense, symbolically taking the paintover OFF the rock simply to make a case to accuse him of racisim. The original owners could have names the property after the type of rocks in the area or what plants grew in the area. NO one in this day and age thinks the first part of the word is acceptable, and that is, no doubt, WHY it was painted over.

Yep, inject Racism, again and again, into the mix....since Class Warfare has just about run it's course.

I have an idea....why don't the Liberals discuss Mr. Obama's failed domestic and international agenda, or even the major issues facing America today ? Nah, it these issues were discussed, it would be a slam dunk to oust Mr. Obama after one term.

JoAnna: "It's doubtful the Tea Party would have much in common with the totalitarianism vision of the Occupy crowd."

I wouldn't be so sure on that. All the Tea Party leaning people I've met have consistently been very angry at and about Wall Street, bank bailouts, and CEO pay and golden parachutes. Marching against the banks and Wall Street has a lot more appeal to the average Tea Party leaning person than you're giving them credit for.

I guess you (and probably a lot of people in the GOP) are hoping they are too stupid to think for themselves and will restrict themselves to pure Tea Party issues that benefit the rich, but I'm not sure how many of them will see that memo especially when there's no recognized head of the Tea Party who can really even control the direction the mob moves in. Within the next few months the Occupy movement could eclipse the Tea Party in both size and influence. I bet that scares the hell out of you.

Joanna Smith

We just need a few more taxes, a couple of more regulations, and a six or seven more speeches from The Obama, and this economy will be humming right along.

Couldn't do much worse than the lowest taxes in half a century, biggest profits ever for elite wealthy and corporations and false "jobs jobs jobs" BS spouted during the last elections by the repubtards in congress...

Keep up the propaganda MSNBC. Just because there is a "racial epithat" somewhere he goes means nothing. You Dems are far worse racists than Republicans,we independants have discovered. You just don't see it as much in the media. Keep up the BS.

A lot of excellent posts today.

First, I must admit that I'm less interested in the racist rock than I am in crony capitalism. Show me the money. How did Perry get so wealthy on a government paycheck?

Aside from wondering not only why Teabagger protests received so much coverage, but also what the arrest rate was in comparison to the Occupy Wall Street rallies, specifically the police brutality that has been video taped, the double-standard and right-wing attempts to disparage this growing movement is disconcerting.

The Teabagger protests were obviously a narrow slice of America – all white, mostly over 40 in age, and members of the NRA. The aggression and bigotry in Teabagger signage to packing heat outstrips anything we've seen from the Occupy Wall Street crowd. True that the movement began with mostly younger people, but certainly people from all ethnic backgrounds and very peaceful. And now it is growing to include all ages, professions, and a wider range of political affiliation. Real fiscal conservatives will participate – the religious right-wing Teabaggers, not so much. This movement, which started with Wisconsin and Town Halls, is going to make the Teabaggers look like the Republican fringe they always have been--a minority.

Forrest Grump -- You hit the nail on the head about corporations versus unions, one operates on greed, the other is non-profit representation of it's members. More importantly the right for labor to organize is fundamental to democracy as well as the American Dream and way of life. Why conservatives deny the right to organize is in itself anti-American.

Conservative anarchists, theocratic zealots, plutocrats and robber barons, pro-military corporatist fascists -- what ever mixture of bile it is -- this cannot prevail. It's not just class warfare, it is also culture warfare against the religious right-wing, it is against the military-industrial complex of the neocons, it is against the corruption of money in politics, against state news propaganda from FAUX Noise/Hate Radio, and so many important issues currently undermining democracy in our Republic.

Progressives, moderates, and all sane Americans -- Put on your marching boots, demand accountability from the Do Nothing Republicans, and get out the vote. Obama/Biden -2012!

So True Patriot--so you realize that your protestors are more than likely the same paid agitators used by Legal plantiffs law firms who are instructing these guys how to behave in order to get support for class action suits against the cities and municipalities just like the anti war protestors during Bush's era. Its about money not principle. This money is being taken right out of city budgets that would otherwise go to fund government worker union benefits so it seems counter intuitive to me but maybe another bailout in the works.

If its about crony capitalism you must have hated the Stimulus package that sent government funded taxpayer money to fund local and state government shortfalls which were then allocated to fund union benefits and unfunded pension liabiliites, or Tony Rezco and his land deal with Barrack and his wife, or the Soros Brazilian oil deal or the failure to address tort reform because of his relationship with the Trial Lawyers Association, the auto bailout and the gift to the unions over the lenders etc etc etc.

As for unions, conservatives dont deny the right to organize, in fact most conservatives would say people should have a choice and shouldnt be forced to organize but more importantly it has no place in government jobs where the person paying the union benefits is the person receiving union political contributions. Talk about crony capitalism. Of course corporations operate on greed, big ole bad Mcdonalds that greedy corporations is providing 500 thousand jobs because it wants to sell hamburgers at a profit and big old bad United Airlines is trying to make money selling airline seats wow making money is so bad providing all those jobs. Look at mr Nasty Starbucks and all of us suckers paying 5 dollars for a cup of coffee--look at those greedy bastards as we just are so stupid when we could have folgers. Yes True Patriot those greedy bastards have destroyed our nation selling us those nasty hamburgers flying us everywhere filling up the malls with clothes we dont want to buy and coffee we hate. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think it was highly INSULTING of Obama to tell the people at the CBC to "take off their bedroom slippers" and put on their boots. Is that what he thinks of the black people? They sit on their couch in bedroom slippers? The high and mighty brother Barack thinks it's perfectly acceptable from him to talk DOWN to people? Wake up people, he's disrespecting you and using you to keep him in the W.H. What, exactly, has he done for YOU? Unemployment in the black community is higher than it's ever been.

So True Patriot--so you realize that your protestors are more than likely the same paid agitators used by Legal plantiffs law firms who are instructing these guys how to behave in order to get support for class action suits against the cities and municipalities just like the anti war protestors during Bush's era.

OK Kirk, that's the second time you've made this same unsubstantiated claim. Prove it or it's false.

Aggie, hi,

You worked extremely hard to excuse Presidential Candidate Perry from displaying a large racial epithet on his property.

Then you followed this up with extreme outrage about bedroom slippers.

The electorate has already seen and endured the House, Senate, and the White House under Democratic control.

And, they didn't like it...not one bit. That's what the 2010 midterms were all about, Tom.

The electorate has also seen them under Republican control. That's what the 2006 midterms were all about. Einstein was right about insanity.

Backhouse: Hi

"Excusing" Perry for what? Something that someone, in the past, named a property, for whatever reason (rock formation? plants? Maybe, maybe not.) they did. It is NOT Perry's property, as you state. His parents LEASED it years ago. Never owned. And his family tried to obliterate the offensive word back in the early 80's. And as I stated before, I am not a supporter of Perry. I don't even particularly like him, but for people to make such a brohaha about something that, who knows who or why or what, when it is just speculation, attempted character assassination and stirring the pot.

Very different when someone actually SAYS insulting things, from their own mouth, directed at a specific group. In public. In the PRESENT TIME. No comparison

John B, its beyond true and because my wife worked on the case for the city of Chicago which if you actually check out the news accounts won its lawsuit against the anti war protestors and its legal aid plantiffs lawyers. If you read the descriptions you would discover that the antiwar protestors got settlements against several east coast cities but both Minneapolis and Chicago decided to fight the suits. In the discovery, it was found that some legal aid foundation had actually provided to the protestors a cheat sheet on how to get arrested and what to say and how to behave in order for them to file a claim. I am not sure why you would be surprised.

Do you really think its any different now with the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. I would be willing to bet my life savings that there is a legal aid group somewhere in the mix just waiting to sue and will.

And as usual you make a statement of fact without enough information to verify. How about a link once in a while? How about enough information to go searching for the ability to confirm or deny?

John B, because I am lazy and I admit that I dont want to go look it up. Plus I dont even know how to link but I am sure I should figure it out. Look at March 3,2009 chicagobreakingnews.com and the legal aid group is the Center for Constitutional Rights. You can google and find them suing all the various cities.

As nearly as I can determine you're talking about this case; http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/03/judge-tosses-anti-war-protest-suit-against-city.html I don't see anything here that says the protesters were professionals, paid for their service. It seems unlikely "the same paid agitators" were old enough to participate in 2003 antiwar protests and are still in their 20s now.

In any case, putting yourself on the line to be arrested is a tried and true civil disobedience technique that was used frequently in the Civil Rights era, and in term they borrowed it from Ghandi in India.

The last time Republicans destroyed the American economy with their Laissez-Faire economics we ended up with Hoovervilles all over the United States, including Lafayette Park directly across the street from the White House.

This time around Republicans have largely blocked the actions that would bring us out of the latest disaster of Supply Side economics as well as reforms that would prevent a recurrence. How long to they expect to get away with this behavior before people's anger finds an outlet?

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes-

Les Miserables

(article) If it wasn’t for Cain, Perry’s campaign would have played the “liberal media” or “MSM” card, but Cain made that reaction harder to sell.

* * *

So now Cain is on the MSNBC payroll? Or is he merely playing the stooge and doing the "Another Day Another Hatchet Job on Perry" dirty work.

Do facts matter to anyone? IT IS NOT HIS FARM -- STUPID ! ! !

Full disclosure- the first house my husband an I bought was over eighty years old, and had a cistern in the basement. We Lester learned that the house was the first ever on city water- had been from the time it was built. The cistern was mock- put there by the original owners, who were running liquor during Prohibition.

I guess the dirty campaign is underway- the facts of the WaPo story are these-

Perry's father LEASED a property with a nasty word painted on a rock.

Perry's father painted over the nasty word.

Before he painted it over, some people saw the nasty word.

That's your gotcha story?

Get real.

As I said earlier NJNB I have at least 4 entire homes coming into my neighborhood that make comments about (race, rich people, white "hobags" with large booties) Very well written by master graffiti artists. And these are not some 30 years old rock hidden behind weeds, these are entire homes with some very bad stuff scrawling across the entire vacant homes.

Believe me people there are WAY better reasons to dislike Perry then some rock that's more than 30 years old.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

I cannot get that tune,...instead of landing on Plymouth (substitute "Hate") Rock,...Hate Rock landed on him...

Was that an old Ethel Merman? I am quoting it from the movie Terms of Endearment,...but not sure I've ever heard the whole song,...

No end to the amount of lead in Perry's balloon these days.

jollyoldsoul1

As I said earlier NJNB I have at least 4 entire homes coming into my neighborhood that make comments about (race, rich people, white "hobags" with large booties) Very well written by master graffiti artists. And these are not some 30 years old rock hidden behind weeds, these are entire homes with some very bad stuff scrawling across the entire vacant homes.

homes = homies? Feel free to post links of the alleged graffiti.

Are any of them running for political office (local or national)? No? Oh. Well then ... zero relevance.

Thanks, though. RaceBaiting posts are fun to dismantle.

How many people that are living in the homes with graffiti on them are running for POTUS, how many of those properties belong to a state governor. You can wear your favorite F you shirt in public if you wish, but I would not wear it to a job interview. Besides you act like it is just democrats, even Hermann Cain said this has hurt his feelings, if hurt his feelings it hurt other peoples feelings, this is Perry's political "painted rock" to carry, he owns it, he has to carry it around all by himself.

John B, do you honestly believe what you typed? I can't believe anyone could continue to believe that crap.

That's all you've got to contribute, Skiddy? How about you pick ANY PART of what I said and attempt to disprove it? Just in case you have trouble finding it again;

The last time Republicans destroyed the American economy with their Laissez-Faire economics we ended up with Hoovervilles all over the United States, including Lafayette Park directly across the street from the White House.

This time around Republicans have largely blocked the actions that would bring us out of the latest disaster of Supply Side economics as well as reforms that would prevent a recurrence. How long to they expect to get away with this behavior before people's anger finds an outlet?

You're right John b. It's hard to prove broad statements such as you made are true or false, they are in the eyes of the beholder, and I have learned over the years its hard to convince a liberal they are wrong, especially when their reality changes minute to minute.

Thanks for playing. At least you had the integrity to admit you were just trolling. Bye.

JohnB, excellent post and well timed topic.

Jay Cairny

“What he said was, and it absolutely fits the Buffet rule as the president was referring to it, if you make $5 million a year, and I hope you do, and it’s all in wages, or $50 million, and it’s all in wages, you are paying the effective tax rates that is at least as much as middle class tax rates,” Carney told reporters.

“If however, you are like Warren Buffet or someone making a million dollars or someone making $10 or $50 or $5 million, whatever the figure is, but you are paying an effective tax rate lower than a plumber or a secretary, then that’s where the principle would apply,” he added.

Asked about whether the reform would have a meaningful impact on revenue if it only affects 50,000 taxpayers, Carney stressed that it was about a principle.

“I don’t know whether we have numbers that we’ve put together on it,” Carney said. “I know that it’s not an insubstantial number, but it’s a principle that not only does Warren Buffet strongly agree with but most Americans strongly support.”

...and from the Washington Post

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-taxes-and-the-buffett-rule/2011/09/20/gIQAXdd0iK_blog.html

Tell you what John, why don't you define what the Buffet rule is, and how much revenue it would raise? I love when you keep posting "Write the Buffet Rule into tax law" when nobody knows what it is, or what it's effect would be. That's Leadership I can believe in. It's just like President Obama claiming that Republicans are against his so-called jobs bill (which they are), but omits to mention that Senate Democrats are also against it.

Talk about a Dazed and Confused Administration.

Tell you what Alan, why don't you go read the Buffet rule instead of trying to get someone to explain it to you, then you won't look so uninformed. Karl Rove rule, make the liberals explain in detail their post to take up their posting time. Rove says good boy Alan, as he pats Alan on the head.

Alan, The Buffet Rule, you say, "nobody knows what it is, or what it's effect would be".

Where've you been?

"....the President has proposed the so-called Buffet Rule – that no
American making more than $1 million a year should pay a lower tax rate than
this nation’s middle-class families.
This rule would apply to the top three-tenths of one percent of Americans – the richest of the rich, like Mr.
Buffet.

Warren Buffet believes it is unfair that he pays a lower income tax rate than
his secretary. This is what he said: “If you’re in the luckiest 1 percent of
humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99
percent.”

There are about 22,000 people in this country who make more than $1 million
each year, yet pay less than 15 percent of their income in taxes.

The top 400 earners in this country – all of whom make more than $110 million
a year – pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than plumbers and
teachers and factory workers do.
More than anyone else, these millionaires
and billionaires benefited from Bush tax cuts that contributed $3 trillion to
our deficit. They helped plunge this nation into a financial hole.

Yet Congressional Republicans believe middle-class families and seniors – not
the millionaires and billionaires who have enjoyed trillions in tax breaks –
should bear the burden of getting us out of that hole.

A balanced approach to reducing our deficit means those who have benefited
the most from policies that created our deficit crisis should also help solve
our deficit crisis. A balanced approach means everyone pays his or her fair share." (Majority Leader Reid)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/19/statements-members-congress-and-leaders-across-country-presidents-plan-e

That's for Congress to work out, Alan, but is there something hard to understand about the concept that the ultra-wealthy shouldn't pay a lower effective tax rate than middle class Americans?

Yet here you are, making Mr. Kaul's point that the Conservatism REGULARLY argues that those who have it all deserve even more...at the expense of the rest of us.

....the President has proposed the so-called Buffet Rule – that no
American making more than $1 million a year should pay a lower tax rate than
this nation’s middle-class families.

They don't today. They $1 million/year earner pays more as a percentage for their income taxes and pays the same with capital gains taxes.

For the most part, the wealthy pay a significantly higher percentage of their income in taxes than middle-income workers.

The key numbers: this year those earning over $1 million will pay, on average, 29.1 percent on federal taxes. Those earning between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/fact-check-the-richtheir-secretaries-and-taxes/

So other than just more populist political rhetoric from Obama and the other Leftwing fanatics, what exactly does the so-called "Buffett Rule" propose to do differently?

That's for Congress to work out, Alan, but is there something hard to understand about the concept that the ultra-wealthy shouldn't pay a lower effective tax rate than middle class Americans?

No, I understand the principal pretty well. Seems like the ATM but for even richer people. However, if you read the WP article it seems that even Mr Buffet is confused over average and effective tax rates. Also, there are multiple ways to write a principal into law. So, for once, why doesn't the Administration show some leadership and actually produce the legislation it would like see to implement their principal? We've seen the success the Administration has had in the past by leaving it to congress to implement it's principals.

...and to Mo, if you do not know how to debate you should keep your thoughts to yourself instead of publicizing the fact that you are a fool who parrots people who are smarter than you.

The 1% have had a good innings. Ordinary American people put them where they are on the-wealthiest -ever-in-the-history-of-the-world category.

Now it is time for corporations to pay an equal effective rate as everyone else, or aren't they 'people' after all? (@@)

With capital gains at the standard low of 15%, it must be an exhilerating game for those fancy lawyers to see if they can whittle that figure down to zero via loophoes and cop-outs ~ or as near as damnit.

Griping about the Deficit and then refusing to put your hand in your pocket to pay your effective share of revenues......has been exposed for what it is, is passed, done, finished, toast, on the way out the door.

Public Policy Poll shows that 73% of Americans agree with the Warren Buffet Rule.
The poll also shows that 66% of Republicans agree with the Warren Buffet Rule.

Joe in Albany and Alan NJ -- Here is a link to the Buffett interview on CNN. This is Buffett's take....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/30/news/economy/buffett_rule_taxes/index.htm?iid=HP_River

Real credibility here -- a left-wing extremist being quoted by others on the left. No credibility. No balance. Just more talking points supporting the arguably most deficient president in history -- including Jimmy!!!

Donald Kaul is an American journalist based in Iowa. For many years he was the author of the Washington column in the Des Moines Register and is one of the founders of RAGBRAI. [1] He currently lives in Michigan [2] and contributes to a number of publications: the Progressive Populist [3], Insider Iowa [4]. Kaul was known for his strongly liberal positions during his time at the Register. He has been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize in commentary.

Thanks for once again providing the necessary material to prove you wrong, JS1. From your link;

The Top 400 tax filers – the very richest Americans – do pay a lower rate of just 18.11 percent of their total income.

Why is it acceptable for these people to pay a lower effective tax rate than does the middle class?

Direct from the DNC.

John B, well said. I read Kaul's column; always find him to be a straight talker.

Because the ORS does not collect rates- it collects dollars.

Start talking about the dollars paid, and you will find your argument going up in smoke, as you well know.

Thirty five percent of one hundred thousand is a lower dollar amount than fifteen percent of one hundred million.

I don't doubt that Obama doesn't know that- arithmetic does not seem to be his strong suit- thinking, as he does, that $200,000 is equal to a million- or even a billion.

Those of you supporting him, however, must have passed third grade arithmetic- so your talking point is, just that. A talking point.

Too bad they will not work this election. Well, too bad for you- not for the rest of us.

@John

But from the WaPo article I posted

When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates, it is clear the tax system is already pretty progressive. Everyone pays some tax, even those who pay no federal income taxes, and the wealthiest pay a larger percentage share of taxes. Here’s the effective tax rate for all of the groups, according to the CBO:

Lowest quintile (23.4 million taxpayers), zero to $18,900: 4.3 percent

Second lowest quintile (22.4 million), $18,900-$32,100: 10.2 percent

Middle quintile (22.9 million), $32,100-$47,400: 14.2 percent

Fourth quintile (23 million), $47,400-$71,200: 17.6 percent

Highest quintile (23.6 million), above $71,200: 25.8 percent

Top 10 percent (12 million), minimum income of $98,100: 27.5 percent

Top 5 percent (5.9 million), minimum income of $134,400: 29 percent

Top 1 percent (1.1 million), minimum income of $332,300: 31.2 percent

Now we can argue which fact is "correct", the ABC article uses the top 400 as opposed to the WaPo article which has the top 1%. The point I would make is that until you see what they actually want to implement then calling for it to be passed is a futile argument. For example, if ABC is correct and the top 400 rates are skewed because of the carried interest of hedge fund manager then a simple fix would be for this to be categorized as income. (try getting that past Chuck Schummer). However, instead of populist sloganeering I would rather see a debate over the overhaul of the tax code including SS taxes, as they are effectively no longer separate and simply used as general revenues.

Also, as I explained before, I am not advocating the ending or privatizing of SS. However, I do think we should move to a system of financing where future tax payers are not responsible for their current retirees. Whether this means individual accounts where the government is the fiduciary, or a pension system backed by tangible assets (not government bonds), I am open-minded.

Bob lotsanumbers:

Even for you, that's a ridiculous stretch. If you are looking for some simple demarcation between revenue and non-revenue bills, you might take a look at bills which may be passed under reconciliation, and those that may not.

What the President proposed is all about revenue for the government with respect to revenues it may raise and with respect to how those revenues may be raised. Come on, don't go off on those ridiculous union and billionaire bundler tangents. Those are silly talking points that have no foundation in reality.

Even Buffet is against the "Buffet Rule". Buffet is against people like himself that pay on capital gains rate and not W2 rates. If you have a job no matter what it is baseball player, engineer, teacher you pay taxes on the W2 rate. Buffet doesn't want that to change which is against what Obama wants.

Also now that you mention it why is Obama against a husband and wife each making the same amount of money without having to pay the added tax he wants? If they are both dentists, have student loans to pay, studied for 6 years to attain their position and now want to practice, they are penalized because BOTH individually make $200,000. He wants one to make $200,000 and the other to make $49,000. How stupid is that and how unjust!!

I thought you people were for equal pay for equal work??

Even Schumer is against the Obama plan - “$250,000 makes you really rich in Mississippi but it doesn’t make you rich at all in New York and there ought to be some kind of scale based on the cost of living on how much you pay,” Schumer said. Nothing like that included in the Obama plan either.

Thanks for making my point, folks. The GOPTP will defend to the bitter end the right of the ultra wealthy to benefit from a lower tax rate than that of average Americans. You're attacking the effort to set that straight, but haven't yet justified why it's appropriate.

Why should the wealthy elites pay a lower effective tax rate than that of the middle class?

Alan, NJ

This is a nasty little game you play. Friday, you asked me for responses. You got them, and proceeded to ignore them. No more Rovian BS for me. You aren't going to budge from the right-wing stance. Why don't you stop pretending you really want answers to your questions?

Alan NJ -- What part of the tax system do you support??? Read this article and tell me that the whole system isn't broken. REFORM TAXES NOW!! CLEAN THE WHOLe Mess UP!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/us/lawmakers-want-to-end-tax-breaks-if-they-can-agree-what-they-are.html?_r=1&hp

@David

This is a nasty little game you play. Friday, you asked me for responses. You got them, and proceeded to ignore them. No more Rovian BS for me. You aren't going to budge from the right-wing stance. Why don't you stop pretending you really want answers to your questions?

Are you talking about this post? #1.60 - Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:59 AM EDT

There was another post of yours where I replied that I agreed on the principals that you stated but may differ on the details. Other than that I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to.

..and to Mo, if you do not know how to debate you should keep your thoughts to yourself instead of publicizing the fact that you are a fool who parrots people who are smarter than you.

I ask for a simple statement of facts, and this is what you come back with Alan. It's apparent you don't have anything to back up your post.

Anybody notice that Backwash and Supposedly-Disabled-NavyGuy never post on the same day? Yet both are equally full of crap. Coincedence?

@Don'tCarryItAll

Dont_carry_it_all

Alan NJ -- What part of the tax system do you support??? Read this article and tell me that the whole system isn't broken. REFORM TAXES NOW!! CLEAN THE WHOLe Mess UP!

However, instead of populist sloganeering I would rather see a debate over the overhaul of the tax code including SS taxes, as they are effectively no longer separate and simply used as general revenues.

It seems we agree?

@Mo-1852032

Tell you what Alan, why don't you go read the Buffet rule instead of trying to get someone to explain it to you, then you won't look so uninformed. Karl Rove rule, make the liberals explain in detail their post to take up their posting time. Rove says good boy Alan, as he pats Alan on the head.

.and to Mo, if you do not know how to debate you should keep your thoughts to yourself instead of publicizing the fact that you are a fool who parrots people who are smarter than you.

I ask for a simple statement of facts, and this is what you come back with Alan. It's apparent you don't have anything to back up your post.

What "simple statement of fact" were asking Mo? Looks to me that you were just throwing out an insult. I stand by my statement that the more you post the more you show yourself to be a fool.

And you still don't have anything to back up your post Alan. Just the same lame attempt at an insult.

Perhaps this article posted on WSJ online Smart Money will help clear up some myths.

http://www.smartmoney.com/retirement/planning/10-things-social-security-wont-tell-you-1314999788631/#articleTabs

Let me paraphrase for you what Alan stated. "I don't care about facts or reality, this is what I think...."

Mo, You can try to teach a pig to sing. It can't be done. You will only aggravate the pig.

Mo-1852032

And you still don't have anything to back up your post Alan. Just the same lame attempt at an insult.

I give up Mo...you are the King of insults. Now you are free to discuss the highs and lows of swine care with Navy

@Navy

Must be getting under your skin. You feel little Mo needs some support?

@DCIA

I'm sorry. Did you think I was arguing for the end of SS or for individual accounts? No. The change that I am arguing for is that current retirees should not be paid for out of current taxes. This is because current politicians can promise benefits that future taxpayers have to fulfill. So I am in essence arguing for the Al Gore "lockbox", but it cannot be underwritten by government bonds, as these are simply IOU's against the taxpayer. It has to be backed by tangible assets. Now a few years back it was suggested that SS could invest in the stock market but Republicans were against this because of the influence government investment could have in a private company. I think we should find a way round this.

Alan NJ -- Your welcome. Not that I agree with everything you say but at least you stated your position.

IR, thanks for sharing this article and your comments; great job.

The GOPTP likes to use words like class warfare, it sounds good to their faithful supporters who blindly believe what their GOP tells them without ever looking in their own pocketbook. Most republicans are not wealthy; they are part of the 99% of Americans who wages continue to decline or stagnate. Reagan began the "class war" with his anti-tax for the wealthy, anti-union, anti-government preaching. Every generation or so, America reinvents itself; throws out the ideology that brought us to some point. That is what we see today, Reagan's trickle down, supply side economics was a total failure; people are finally realizing that 2008 happened because of failed policy; they recognize that continuing that failed policy will not cure our ailments. Occupy Wall Street is a move to throw out the status quo thinking, to rid ourselves of an economic ideology that has driven the country into the ground, to demand that greed be treated for what it is--the selfish interests of a few against the best interests of all.

IR and Jody thanks.

And reading between the lines, I see, "This is not just class warfare, it is also Math".

Class warfare has never ended. The battle has always been between the rich and the poor. For some reason the rich can never seem to get enough. In that respect, they are very like the poor, and that is where the similarity ends. The rich don't starve if they don't get more.

I hope that the current protest in New York spreads like wildfire, and for the right reasons. Today, I have this haunting belief that many of those who protested Viet Nam did so not because of the rightness/wrongness of the war, but simply because they were afraid. (It is not wrong to be afraid. It is wrong to pretend otherwise.) It is for that reason, I can't escape this nagging feeling that many of the "protestors" are pissed off because they have taken out huge loans in the pursuit of useless degrees. Now, it is time to pay the piper and they can't find an employer who is desperate for graduates in Psychology, Women's Studies, African-American Studies, Anthropology, Art, Classics........You get the picture. There are other reasons of course, but many of them may track to the believe that there is some sort of entitlement that attaches to American citizenship. Nope.

It's that kind of attitude that may be fueling this "protest", when there are very good and much better reasons for bringing down the culture of corruption that pervades and permeates Wall Street. Just as there were good, solid reasons for getting the hell out of SEA.

As I said, I hope there is a serious movement afoot to crush the parasites of the corrupt financial community. I hope it begins by destroying the extremists who have taken over the Republican Party. I hope it continues by sending an unmistakeable signal to governments from the local races all the way to the federal government that we have had it. I hope we demand that the Democrats take victory as a mandate to bring spending under control, to gut fraud, waste and abuse from the budget and to send criminals who abuse us to prison. I hope they will stop pussy footing around with Social Security and Medicare and make those programs solid, not just for the next few years, but forever. No more band aids.

That is what we have to do. The Republicans refuse to do what must be done, and the Democrats are so weak-spined they make me want to puke. We'd better show them we are serious about fixing our problems........or this nation dies.

@ David Walker

I hope it spread like a wild fire too. Sometime people get to a point where enough is enough. I hope that point has arrived.

Protests have a RICH history in America.

They helped Women get the right to vote.

They enacted Prohibition ( albeit that was a stupid move).

They Stopped America's involvement in Vietnam.

They helped start Unions and last but not least, it help to acquire Civil Rights for a huge amount of Americans who had NONE.

Protests can have both positive and Negative consequences. But the Class disparity in America is 100% Negative!

Hopefully, The Posse Comitatus Act of America will protect them from undo Violence on the part of the Police and their boss the Wall Street Barons.

Kudos to the Protesters­!

It took the Republicans 8 years to get us in the financial mess the US is in. Now because Obama hasn't fixed it in 4 years with Republicans blocking his every move they expect everyone to believe we need a Republican back in the White House. Obama can fix a lot of problems but us voters need to put more Democrats in Congress so changes can be made !!

Well said, IR. Looks like there's a groundswell of people who are tired of being overly polite to the fanatics on the Right who are trying to create an alternate reality based in the fiction of Ayn Rand. There's no point in being polite to people who are trying to destroy the American middle class, and with it much of what's great about America.

Looks like I'm in some awfully good company this morning. Excellent by all involved. Let's see what shakes out this morning.

Yes the BULL-ZHIT is knee deep this Morning

EDD-1008854

Yes the BULL-ZHIT is knee deap this Morning

EDD, particularly from the right wing loons!!!

Stop Corporate Greed, Blackball "Black Friday".

Hopefully, many on Wall Street will be serving time in jail, for crimes against the middle class.

Excellent GBM, Simply Excellent

thank you Ron, I believe this movement is going somewhere to all our benefit.

I had not seen this GBM, thanks for sharing. It lays out the scope of Wall Street's attack on the American middle class very well.

I LOVE it when I'm on the same page with you Gingerbread Mamma & Ron!

One would think there's a grievence or two even the right wing nuts could get behind - if they weren't certifiable...

Too bad... so sad!

Where's the Ohio National Guard when you need them? lol!!!!!

Feisty, I love being on the same page with you too.

Thankfully some of the MSM are finally giving this the attention it deserves, Mr Bloomberg is tearing his hair out as his buddies on Wall St, scream at him, get 'm outta here!

Get used to it Mayor, they're here for the duration or however long it takes!

Mr Bloomberg is tearing his hair out as his buddies on Wall St, scream at him, get 'm outta here!

I believe it was Pat, Boston who over the weekend posted a link to pictures of the Wall Street Fat Cats drinking champagne from their luxurious offices while looking down on the little people.

I'll see it I can find it...

Yes Feisty saw that too........ shades of Marie Antoinette came to mind, let them eat cake.

That is why Les Miserables and it's music resonates so well, when the people rise up against injustices they can accomplish great things. To read Victor Hugo's masterpiece would be helpful for some in power or those thinking about running for office, when the people, "We the People" have had enough they will take to the streets.

I realize that you are all just giddy with the idea that a loosely amalgamated group of ruts and nuts have gather for widely disparate purposes in Manhattan, and that several dozen other gatherings took place throughout the country this weekend, attracting almost a hundred people in total.

Have you ever stopped to think about the consequences for your idol if this things grows legs and there is civil u rest throughout the nation?

Try to remember Chicago in 1968. If you're not old enough, look it up.

Did not work for Hubert Humphrey, now, did it?

Won't work out any better for Obama.

"a loosely amalgamated group of ruts and nuts"

sounds like early Christianity.

Gingerbread Mamma, great job. Everything they said is true. We bailed them out and their thanks was for them to stomp on us.

Occupy Wall Street Protesters Meet Champagne Sippers

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/wall-street-protesters-meet-champagne-sippers/

Thanks from one of the little people Jam! ;o)

Gingerbread M,

.....Everything we 98% need to know.

You laid it all out in black and white.

Don't worry about it. They'll all give up and go home once it gets too cold out. HIPPIES DON'T LIKE THE COLD!!!

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

Huh? What exactly are you describing as a 'human right'? Education? OK, I completely disagree with that point. However, there are multiple avenues for gaining an education. You are not forced to attend any school in particular. Have you tried Jr. colleges or community colleges for core curriculum, then transfer to a university to save money?

"a loosely amalgamated group of ruts and nuts"

sounds like early Christianity.

Or like a group who founded the country called the United States...

Over the past few weeks I've noticed (in this discussion and others) an increase in references to Marie Antoinette, "let them eat cake", and the French revolution.

Is there anyone besides me who is more-than-just-a-little worried about this trend?

To be clear, to-date I have not read any posts that have actually advocated violence. At least not so far. Which is a good thing. We need to fix the system from within the system. The alternative is anarchy.

I just wanted to point out a trend I've been noticing, and see if anyone else is as troubled by it as I am.

I love you GBM, but your Les Miserables reference is incorrect vis a vis Marie Antoinette. Les Miserables is not about the French Revolution of 1789, but about a largely student protest in 1832. The king in 1832 was Louis Phillippe III. The monarchy, that had been overthrown in 1789, had been restored after Napoleon abdicated. The French people had been through a lot of social unrest and a couple of attempts at Republics before Napoleon became emperor.

However, your reference is still timely because of the conditions that led to the revolt. From Wikipedia: "Leading up to the rebellion, there were significant economic problems, particularly acute in the period from 1827 to 1832; the years were marked by harvest failures, food shortages, and increases in the cost of living, creating malcontent throughout the classes."

Also, please note - the students lost.

Northstar-- You're absolutely right. I shouldn't have dirtied up this very serious, solemn site with my jokes. The level of posting on this site is always very clear-headed, logical and without any negativity or malice at all. I don't know what got into me.

I'm going to scroll through the posts here from the last few days to see if I can find anyone else who has degraded the high standards usually seen on this site. If I find anything offensive, I'll let you know.

Damage, thanks for your apology and the proper use of sarcasm. Carry on...

I am also sure most posters under 40 would not understand your reference to Ohio national guard. But I did and did not find it funny or helpful

Well North if your old enough to remember that event . Then you will also remember how these types of people treated me and my fellow service men around the same time. I had both blood and urine tossed at me after deployment, and find this to be very close to my not so fond memories.

Make no mistake, the only sarcasm from Damage123 was the dripping sarcasm in the "apology". Rather mortifying that he/she proposes the use of guns to kill protesters in the style of Kent State. Ignoring all the other biased posts by this "damaged one" against anyone that is non-white or non-Christian, just this post calling for the killing of American protesters should be enough to earn a permanent ban from this site. Damage, leave your calls for murder to your local neo-Nazi sites. It is not needed here.

@jollyoldsoul--In my opinion the treatment you received was absolutely wrong. If those who did this to you (and you are speaking from 1st hand experience regarding this treatment, yes?) were protesting the war, they were foolish to make our servicemen/women their target and their methods were demeaning and contemptuous. If they were protesting alleged war crimes (many of which were eventually borne out to be true) they used despicable tactics. None of those things, however, is equal to Americans shooting unarmed Americans. It is NOT the same and the wink-wink nudge-nudge with which Damage123 insinuates his/her true beliefs is neither clever nor funny. It merely underscores the dearth of TRUE CIVILITY in public discourse which is sorely needed right now. Truly rational ideas can be communicated and discussed without insulting, condescending, threatening, and/or vilifying. I'm sure I've opened the door to flaming for saying the above, but any response I may type I assure will be civil. We as a country need, now more than ever in my short lifetime, to find and encourage the values we hold in COMMON. On my street alone I know of Ron Paul supporters, a conservative republican with a hippie artist for a wife, a few liberals, and a family on unemployment and welfare. Guess what? We all get along! We get along because we treat each other as PEOPLE, not LABELS. Insulting, polarizing, 'my way or the highway' rhetoric is bringing down this country almost as quickly as any partisan or corporate agenda at this point. Please folks, let's try and treat our fellow Americans with civility if not courtesy. You'd be amazed how fast honest communication can return.

eyeswideopen-4197916,

Very well said! Let us hope that some will take heed and indeed be civil. Yea, we can hope!

Damage would prove to be a bit wiser realize ...

1. The threat of violence won't deter the protesters
2. There is quite a few of us social liberals who actively exercise our Second Amendment rights.

Consider yourself informed, sir.

Heaven knows that there is enough of him to go around, but when he agreed to a lot of things with the workers and teachers of NJ and then used his line item veto to show that he is just like the rest of the loony tunes and vetoed them all I think we don't want to see what evil lurks in this walker heart attack!

' Morning Nash, hope you had a good weekend. Great post.

Every pundit has their own agenda and because of that they are beholden to someone, we never get the full truth from any of them. This is why we have to be proactive and find our own truth. They seldom ask the tough questions or followups, as they want to have access to that politician or that organization or group.

Good morning to you as well Gingerbread Mamma . . . and thanks for your most excellent post above!

Great post, Nash. I think another factor is the 24/7 media cycle, where the cable networks and internet sites have to provide content (or what passes for content) all the time, so that these people have an audience for the punditry.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Steeler Fan . . . always good to see you! :o)

From Larry - "He doesn’t care much for females. Makes him look small . . . . " Maybe that's what he's hoping for.

Larry-

Herman Monster - “b l a c k people are brainwashed”. He’s an uncle tom used as a smoke screen to hide the racist elements of the Tea Party. He will not get the b l a c k vote and doesn’t have a chance in h e l l of being nominated.

Another example of rampant racism from the left. Hypocritical. An uncle tom? Used? If one was to actually read where he stands on issues, you would find some serious ideas from his camp for this country. Wait, I get it. It's okay to attack a black conservative man, right? Some heads must be exploding...

Wait till your screens get filled with the over sized walking heart attack if he should decide to run!

No, Greg.

You're a racist if you criticize President Obama. The definition of "racist" is an ever-expanding proposition.

I recently became aware of a new form of racism myself...white "liberal electoral racism."

The common thread between the racist Tea Party and white liberal racists is criticism of President Obama's agenda, policies, and leadership.

In fact, it's come to my attention that you can even be considered a racist although you voted for President Obama in 2008.

Who knew?

Just get rid of the racist old greedy thugs that seem to be the foundation of the tea party and let them hoard their wealth somewhere else!

You do realize that the Majority (us independents) find your vitriolic name calling vile and repulsive. But please feel free to keep it up. It just push's us further to the right and you to an even smaller minority.

jollyoldsoul1

You do realize that the Majority (us independents) find your vitriolic name calling vile and repulsive. But please feel free to keep it up. It just push's us further to the right and you to an even smaller minority.

My thoughts exactly. I've been a moderate for a long time...this board makes me sick to my stomach.

jollyoldsoul1

You do realize that the Majority (us independents) find your vitriolic name calling vile and repulsive. But please feel free to keep it up. It just push's us further to the right and you to an even smaller minority.

CAN you shift any further "right"? I mean, is that possible?

Herman Cain 2012!

If you don't vote for him, you're a racist!

That's true, Steven. Any liberals who dump on Cain are racists. I love how this works! What's even cooler is this new thing that Libs have dreamed up: Anybody who DID vote for Obama but might not AGAIN, are racists! At least that's what that stupid female dog, Melissa Perry says. She's a regular on MSNBC. Go figure. Liberal, identity politics at it's best.

Damage123, you are right. Without the race card , how would the Dems get anyone to vote for them? They haven't created any jobs. Even the "green" companies they poured millions into were failed companies. So,instead of standing on their FAILED policies, we have the Dems out there creating "racial hate " just for votes. Is there anything more vile? ....and let's not forget, they want MORE money for a "stimulus 2" ( they call it a "jobs plan", haha) and they use "class warfare" for that one !

Racism?@! In the TEA Party???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...........

Jam - that will only happen if the presidency (or any other office for that matter) is limited to 1 term.

Jim,

Facts be damned. Both sides do it. They do it because they know the media eats it up. If everybody just ignored this kind of story, we'd be a lot better off and have some pretty civil discourse. But we don't. It pushes our buttons and makes us stupid. And when we're stupid these politicians can do whatever they want to us as long as they keep pushing those buttons every election cycle.

In Jacques Barzun's House of Intellect, c 1959, he explains why you don't or can't have people of intellect

running a democracy. Is that why, I am questioning, a China Communist Committee of Six, is it, can run an

economy better than an American electorate and the leaders sans intellect [not w/o intelligence], because

whereas our leaders can traffic in interests, they are by and large devoid and incapable of ideas?

Jim in Dallas, you really don't do Texas any favors by stating that you're from there.. If a republican

takes a crap in the middle of the floor, you're the type that says "at least he's regular, and not

constipated like those democrats.." Are you man enough to think for yourself? Or are you a wussy

that lets Rush or Beck do your thinking for you? Man up and stop making excuses. If Obama had

" honky head " written on the restauraunt he goes to several times a year, what would you say?

Be a man... what would Jesus say about that... He'd say Perry has to take responsibility for his own

decisions. The name of the Camp was "Ni**erHead." Would you rent the place? Idiot...if Perry

made a bonehead move, he should say "I made a bonehead move, and move on. THEN its a non-

story. This infantile lying, excuse-making, and non-admittal of mistakes is worse than the racism. If

he made a mistake, and mans up to it, at least the we'd feel we can trust him...

So true, what's worse is that they are ideological zealots...

Wow Rob, sounds very stereotypical of you. All Cain said was that it was offensive, not much of a race card if your going to play one. The guy is black in case you haven't noticed and if I saw a stone with "cracker or honkies" I would deem that offensive as well. I don't really buy the Japanese argument. You may recall that African Americans were uprooting from their countries of origin and slavery was a pretty nasty stain - be that as it may, stereotypes just don't work. I always adhere to the old Indian saying of "don't judge a man unless you have walked a mile in his moccasins"... I see plenty of minorities handling their business quietly and dealing with the racism that still exists - whether overt or not. Not talking about it doesn't make it go away and shining lights on evil is a good thing from time to time. I wish it was a color-blind society, but it isn't.

You are a narrow-mined bigot with nothing to offer the youth of America. Go back to 1800s, when blacks provided free income for the people they picked cotton for.

If that rock had said something offensive about Jesus, it would have been removed by several leasers, not just Perry.

As for blacks wanting a handout, there's no shortage of whites looking for a handout. Africa is not the only part of the world dependent on American aid dollars. What about Europe and Israel?

You're right "newbook" but until folks vote their best interests instead of blindly being tied to an ideology we will find ourselves in this political cesspool versus the haves and have nots for a long time. The oligarchy is here. A vicuous cycle that benefits the rich.

The right consistently claims that 'trickle down' economics does not work. but that is simply not true. As an economic policy, 'trickle down' economics is a stroke of genius. If you are wealthy, you will be become uber-wealthy. If you are middle-class, it drives you to the lower-class ranks; it in turn drives the lower-class to poverty, and it keeps the impoverished in poverty. It is time to change the moniker for 'trickle down' economics from failed to what it really is, which is CLASS WARFARE!!. Then the voters can decide between which version of class warfare economics do you prefer? Tricke down that rewards only the wealthy, or other policies in which all citizens benefit more equally?

All Democratic talking point lies.

Yeah right San anton Kid..........what planet do you live on ?

I call "trickle down economics" the piss on my back and tell me it's raining theory.

Why is it your businees where he sends his kids to school? As long as he is paying his taxes and the expense of the Catholic school it is now of anyone's business.

Its not anyones business, its between him and his family. You dont get a vote in thet process, even though im sure you all think you should.

His response showed no tact. Period. If he responds to questions in that fashion to world leaders, then he needs a 10-second delay button. As far as the content of his remark, in this economy, I'm just pointing out that it will anger those who are struggling to put their children through public school, with perhaps lunch program assistance. My children are grown, so it does not affect me personally. It's his handling of the situation that I'm expressing displeasure at.

Because you can't begrudge and de-fund public schooling while you send your kid to private schools. Sure he has a right to do so, but other folks aren't that fortunate and don't have that option.

Why is it OK for conservatives to criticize President Obama for sending his daughters to a private school while he's working to improve public schools, but it's not OK for anyone to criticize Chris Christie for sending his kid to a private school while he works to wreck public schools? The words "double standard" and "hypocrisy" come to mind.

Christie said 100 times he's not running. What part of no do people not understand? He doesn't owe you anything, least of all an explination. Up yours america. Find someone who wants the damn job.

I believe that "somebody" Christie told off was a teacher asking about him sending his children to private schools and public school teachers' pay. Christie was terribly, terribly rude and abrasive and ended the discussion with "well, if you don't want to teach, don't teach." The woman (teacher) was attempting to get a word in, tell him she loved teaching, and he just trampled all over her for the entire crowd that was there. It was terrible.

Don't have time to read all the posts, but does everyone know the name of Rick Perry's hunting camp?

Beach,

It was N*gg*rhead.

Racism? In the TEA PARTY? Noooooooooooo..... you gotta be kidding me???