Another

Hi guys. Been away for awhile as I have accepted a new Job that has me in training for another week or so and then I will be back on the board.

Looks like nothing has changed. The TP?GOP still thinks cutting taxes on the 2% and corporations will create jobs and stimulate the economy even though almost all leading economists say this does not work.

They are still pushing the same old lies that the stimulus did not work. They are still trying to pull their “Hostage” routine to take the citizens of this country and hold them hostage so they can give more to the 2% and corporations at our expense.

It looks like it will be Romney or Perry as the TP/GOP Presidential candidate. What a choice a flip flopper versus an outright fraud. No wonder the TP/GOP is still looking for a viable candidate.

President Obama 2012

Well, I read on some blog post…or did I hear it on one of the many ‘liberal’ AM radio stations??.... that Obama has now ‘destroyed the country’. In only 2 and a half years, to boot.

Not good, I thought. So I stopped to take inventory of the things in my life and around me.

Seems like the flag is still waving up there at the top of my flagpole.

The house is still a million miles away from being within the reach of the foreclosure folks.

The cars are all still paid for, and running quite well (once they ‘shoot craps’, though, I will still be able to choose between the Chevy Volt and that big ol’ RV, or some other vehicle, But- it will still be MY choice, and I’m still free to make it).

The neighbors all seem to still be unafraid to pray to their chosen gods- one of ‘em to no god at all, in fact.

They’re still teaching all the stuff they taught me ‘way back when’ down at the local school house, and If I dislike some of it, I’m still free to head on down there and voice my views at one of the many PTA meetings.

Still employed. (actually had to decide between TWO job offers last week- hope I made the right choice. But, it WAS still MY choice to make…).

Still openly putting up my opinions on an internet blog site.

Still getting the local paper to accept and print some of those opinions on their editorial pages.

Jokers like No Jo and Smiff are still free to express their dissatisfaction about the President of the United States of America without fear of retribution.

The farm crops seem to be doing nicely again this season, and I’m still free to purchase and consume which ones I like, and avoid the ones I don’t like.

I’m still free to attend (or stay away from) the church of my choice.

My 401-K is in much better shape than it was, say, two and a half years ago.

I still get to vote for whoever I want to vote for (or against, in some cases).

I have some pretty darned good health insurance (that I have the freedom to change or shop around if I want).

My taxes have not gone up and up and up, as some folks keep telling me.

I don’t know- I guess I better quit now, and go back to searching for more evidence of this ‘destruction’ that seems to have engulfed the nation.

‘bye.

Christie in 2012? I don't think so.

Obama in 2012.

Albany Joe:

The case was about Arthur Andersen and the fact that the SC ruled unanimously that they didn't get a fair trial.

Am I going out on a limb to think you do believe in fair trials??

Most of the time I do. In my humble, uneducated opinion, however, there is a significant difference between getting a fair "trial" and the jury getting fair instructions. What the Court did was substitute its judgment, after the fact, that a jury that had found obstruction couldn't reasonably have found obstruction.

A jury is a finder of fact, and I don't particularly like it when a court -- any court -- substitutes its own analysis of the facts for that of the jury that actually heard the evidence and was charged with finding the facts.

________________________________________

AM: HUH??

So, your position is that a “fair trial” DOES NOT include the judge, who is responsible for making sure all the rules are properly followed, giving “fair” instructions to the legally unsophisticated members of the jury??

Isn’t that a little like having your GB Packers playing with randomly selected members of the public for referees that have little or no idea what the rules of pro football are and just deciding if they do or don’t like the plays based on their emotions only??

Sorry AM, a fair trial MUST include fair instructions to the jury. And, by definition, the whole structure of America’s court system requires an appellate court to “substitute its own analysis” of what happens in lower courts. And there is a reason why the Supreme Court is called “supreme”.

It's very easy to dismiss an argument by saying, "Well, that's just your opinion." It's very hard to dismiss an argument that is based on cold, hard numbers. So, my fellow liberals, in the interest of blowing up the ridiculous argument that raising taxes will kill the economy, I present the following.

For reference, please see yesterday's excellent post #1 from Backhouse: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/29/8034456-first-thoughts-the-frozen-campaign

If the Bush/Obama income tax reductions die and revert to a top rate of 39.6% on incomes over $250,000, here's what will happen. (Dammit, don't stop reading now, this is simple arithmetic. It's "conservatives" who can't handle arithmetic.)

Let's say that John and Mary Taxpayer - small business job creators - have now exceeded the $250,000 income tax rate threshold. Good for them, they should be pretty darned comfortable. Let's say they have a taxable income of $300,000 this year. I'm not going to include the F.I.C.A. bite. We all pay that on our earned income, even the minimum wage earners.

Today John and Mary pay 35% of that increase, that's $17,500. That's quite a chunk, but they still keep $32,500, less FICA. If rates revert to the Clinton rate of 39.6%, the additional income tax will be $2,300. That's it. Total tax is less than $20,000 on the additional $50,000. They still have $30,000 more than they did. Mind you, there are many, many people in this country who do not even make $30,000 total in one year.

Now, Mr. and Mrs. Job Creator have $2,300 less than they had under the current schedule. Does that mean they won't create a job? To quote corporate lackey and current House Speaker John Boehner, "Hell, no!" As a matter of fact, the Creators have more incentive than ever to hire and expand. Why?

Well, the President has proposed giving them a tax credit of up to $4,000 that will more than offset their increased taxes. If they hire unemployed veterans and long-term unemployed, the credit is even greater. Those aren't the only incentives for hiring, but you already know that if you saw Backhouse's post.

So you see, it's not liberal-types who can't handle arithmetic, it's "conservatives". What you have read is the numerical equivalent of dynamite. Go ye therefore and blow up the BS nonsense about increasing tax rates.

Finally, for a truly feel-good Friday, I recommend this video. Did you know, it was some very brave and courageous sailors - most of them civilians - who conducted the largest waterborne evacuation in American history? These folks were ordinary citizens who truly make one proud to be an American. It's amazing what we can do when we work together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOrzF7B2Kg

I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees nothing but disingenuous with the “progressives”. Yet tv hosts and really bad journalists out there believe them before they will believe the President and his accomplishments. Which frankly are there for all to see.

There is so much wrong with our media. So much wrong. The progressives? Bullies. It’s why I don’t watch MSNBC much anymore. The unprofessionalism and the lying with regard to President Obama is truly head scratching.

Where are the independent thinkers in this country? Why do people have to be led around by the nose by bloggers? Bloggers who have never accomplished a damn thing for 30 years. Yet they are the ones to hold power with the progressives on tv.

All for traffic & ratings. Instead of honesty. Sad. Sad. Sad. And very few will call it for what it is.

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Bob Cesca:

Melissa Harris-Perry wrote a fantastic column in The Nation this week in which she makes a perfectly rational argument for the existence of “white progressive racism.” Here’s the quote of the week:

President Obama has experienced a swift and steep decline in support among white Americans—from 61 percent in 2009 to 33 percent now. I believe much of that decline can be attributed to their disappointment that choosing a black man for president did not prove to be salvific for them or the nation.

There’s so much to say about this topic, it’s difficult to know where to begin. Personally, I’ve been baffled by the disconnect between the president’s record and the obstructions in his path including conservadems and the generally slow legislative process, and how a certain faction of progressives fail to recognize these realities along with the obvious liberalism of many of the goals he’s sought and achieved.

The only explanations I can come up with are: 1) racism, 2) careerism and 3) delusion.

The irrationality and intellectual dishonesty of this faction is what’s leading me to draw these conclusions.

Why have they revised recent history? In his response to Harris-Perry’s article, John Aravosis wrote that the president watered down the stimulus in order to appease the Republicans. Not entirely true. Same goes for healthcare. The president had to overcome conservadem opposition as well as Republican opposition. Kent Conrad, Evan Bayh, Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Max Baucus, Blanche Lincoln and the rest were just as obstructionist as the Republicans. Yes, the stimulus wasn’t big enough, but it was still historically gigantic, and it contained the largest middle class tax cut in history. This is hardly a betrayal. It’s an achievement in a difficult landscape. Aravosis also writes that progressives supported the Obama campaign. Oh really? I recall progressives supporting the Edwards campaign (smart!) and then becoming deeply divided between Clinton and Obama, then landing on ambivalence towards the Obama campaign once he became the presumptive nominee. Read Eric Boehlert’s book “Bloggers on the Bus” for some actual history, John. David Sirota, meanwhile, responding to Harris-Perry, accused the president of military “adverturism” in Libya — conflating Libya with Iraq and Afghanistan — even though we simply participated in a NATO mission and never invaded or occupied Libya. This is purely dishonest of Sirota (shocker) for the sake of rousing progressive anger and continuing the thoroughly disproved “just like Bush” meme.

Why have they diminished the president’s record? Sirota wrote about “the president’s failure to pursue his campaign promises.” According to Politifact, the president has kept 147 of his promises in just under three years, and broken 47. In other words, he’s batting around .750. In baseball, a .300 average is Hall of Fame worthy. Additionally, and I repeat for the umpteenth time, try to name a single president in American history who kept all of his promises and with whom you agree on every policy. I can’t think of a single one. To impose a different standard on this president seems dubiously motivated — a key point in Harris-Perry’s column.

Why do they ignore (or damn-by-faint-praise) the liberalism of the president’s achievements? Aravosis compared Clinton’s record to President Obama’s record on LGBT issues and seems to have decided that because Clinton appointed a handful of gay people to various departments, this is somehow comparable to President Obama overturning an anti-gay law that Clinton supported. Aravosis also brushes off Clinton’s passage of DOMA. All of this was prefaced by the all-too-familiar criticism that the president didn’t move fast enough on gay issues. This is not unlike criticizing Jonas Salk for not ending Polio fast enough. Beyond the overturning of a major anti-gay law, the president’s record shows a strong tendency toward liberalism/progressivism. Do I need to run through the list? Stem cell research; the ending of the Iraq war; the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; credit card reform; huge tax credits that will reduce middle class health insurance premiums by around $10,000/year; expanded SCHIP; extended federal benefits to partners of same-sex workers; appointed the first Latina Supreme Court Justice; multiple pitches in support of liberalism and the role of government — most recently in his American Jobs address… Should I go on? Sirota? Aravosis?

Yes, the president has done some things that are frustrating. But should those items negate the preponderance of evidence in favor of his record? The problem with progressive discontentment is that the usual suspects are all-too-eager to throw the president (and with him the continuation of liberal-leaning policies) overboard because of those several mistakes.

I understand the importance of accountability. But in the process of holding a similarly-minded leader accountable, we shouldn’t be counterproductive to the broader movement. President Obama, regardless of what you think, is moving the window leftward. Period. There’s a way to coax him in this direction and there’s a way to convince him that it’s not worth it and to consequently force him to fall back to politically safer high ground. Smart accountability is the solution. Promote the good things and criticize the bad by constructing rational counter-arguments. Rachel Maddow is a solid illustration of the “smart accountability” ideal. Conversely, non-stop shouting only tends to disintegrate into white-noise and gibberish.

Instead, progressives like Sirota, Aravosis, Greenwald and Hamsher, while purporting to hold the president accountable, are simply breeding disillusionment and anger among a crowd that’s already predisposed to emo behavior. Instead of making a killer pitch for continued liberal policies, these progressives simply shout at the administration while injecting dishonesty into the discourse. For better or worse, these people have large audiences and their words have an impact — especially in an increasingly connected online world. Their dishonesty rubs off and their anger is contagious.

But what’s truly motivating them? I think in some cases it’s racism, yes. See Harris-Perry’s “salvific” remarks above. In her negative response to Harris-Perry, Joan Walsh even goes off in the first couple of paragraphs about her “black friend.” Odd. But I’ll let Harris-Perry make this argument — she’s better at it.

Racism aside, many of these progressives have made a conscious decision to tap into a certain angry demographic for the sake of traffic and readership-building. When the president was elected, traffic on liberal blogs dropped off, partly because there wasn’t anything tangible for liberals to complain about — no more Bush to push around anymore. So these writers tapped into the divisions that arose during the 2008 Democratic primary. Those divisions ran very, very deep. And finally, there’s a giant heap of delusion in the mix. Many of these progressives clearly haven’t read the president’s books. His positions and the degree of his liberalism, along with the backstory of his pragmatism, are outlined in easy-to-read type, and neither of his blockbuster best-sellers are difficult to find. (Readers of his books will also learn that nothing in this president’s past indicates that he responds well to inchoate shouting and anger. Nothing.) Nevertheless, many progressives have unfairly superimposed their own politics onto the president. I’m not sure why, but then, when the president doesn’t follow through with your agenda, he’s suddenly a disappointment.

So I encourage you to try to see the president’s record in a realistic way. Decide for yourself if 147 promises kept is solid enough for you. Decide for yourself whether his accomplishments are “liberal enough,” given the precedent of the Bush years, the right-leaning position of the Overton window and the 30 year dominance of Reaganomics. And finally, think about the impact of unfair, dishonest and ultimately self-defeating behavior.

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Dishonest is right Mr. Cesca.

Great post IR to end the week. Admiral Mullen is one of the finest human beings to ever wear a uniform, and his legacy will shine throughout history.

US Backhouse Navy Disabled posted yesterday that big corporations are not hiring. I responded that duh, we have been telling you guys that big corporations as well as big government, big unions, and now big green don’t create jobs. They fund his elections and re-elections – he has to take care of them first. His response …

In 2007 Koch Oil made $34Billion in profits. In 2011, Koch Oil profits are at $50Billion…..Koch Oil employee number have fallen in a big way…from 80,000 to 67,000.

First, good for them. With Obama’s war on oil – They only had to lay off 13,000?

But cronyism has nothing to do with job creation. For example:

Jeff Immelt and GE gave $700,000 to Dems and Obama in 2008.

GE received $24.9 million of our borrowed tax dollars from the Obamaulus pork package.

Obama’s boy and his company made $156 Billion and laid off 18,000 ….. in 2009.

Just to restate – Obama got $700, 000+ from the richest multi-conglomerate in the world , and in the year they made a profit of $156 billion, they laid off 18,000 Americans and - Obama gave them $24.9 million and later made the CEO his job czar. And they qualified for a tax benefit!

Obama’s job czar then moves light bulb factories to China, moves his medical imaging company to China, is moving Aviation / Avionics to China …… oh yea, you realize that China gets to keep all the new technology right?

I mentioned unions. Unions gave 100s of millions to Obama and the dems. So he had to do something nicer like buy a few car companies for them. Then to help out the boys, he asked Immelt to promise to buy 25,000 Volts that need to be recharged at GE recharging stations. Oh yea, the American tax payer will also pay GE $187,500 million to buy the Volt / revolt.

That is just the tip of the tip.

And you guys whine everyday about the Koch bros?

You should read up on cronyism …. Problem however is that book is being rewritten by Obama ..... everyday.

IR, thanks for sharing this. Great way to end the week. Admiral Mullen's departure is America's loss. How refreshing to ponder the possibility that finally, the military is realizing that not every problem can be solved with "shock and awe" military power and massive numbers of boots on the ground invasions. Thank you, Admiral Mullen for your extraordinary service and wisdom.

Nice to see you, US Navy!

Drive-by-observer. Enjoyed the humor regarding the ridiculous idea that President Obama has destroyed the country--the sun rose here this morning, the grass needs mowing, no one is banging on my door to haul me away for some trumped up charge. Life goes on.

CA Tom:

Christie is not going to run. He has the backing of some of the money brokers but not the people in general.

The TP/GOP is floundering. They do not like the current gaggle of clowns running for the Presidential race and are trying to find somebody else.

Every day we see how weaker these clowns Romney and Perry are. Bachmann got left in the dust and Palin has no chance.

Obama/BIDEN 2012!!!!....we can't forget the VP is only a "heart beat" away..............

Another stellar round up of the important stories of the day by our Hosts here at First Read.

Who really care how much money (Hauls as they so delicately put it) these people take in?

It is all obscene and should be stopped.

Richard Trumka makes the cut? Who cares what this yahoo has to say? When did he become someone to follow?

In other news Steven Chu is toast:

From the Washington Post:

Chu, a Nobel laureate and physicist who came to the administration from academia, arrived in Washington with a mandate to push billions of dollars in stimulus funds into clean-energy companies and projects. With keen White House interest, Chu rode herd over an $80 billion showcase initiative that was supposed to spur a new “green” industry and economic growth.

I’ll give Chu the benefit of the doubt. I doubt he is corrupt, but this is what happens when you put academics in political positions. They get run over by the real politicians. He will have to resign as Obama is sure to throw him under the bus.

Looks like they're gonna need a bigger bus.

Now if the Obama Administration is shown to have exerted pressure on Chu to make these loans to politically connected donors companies, things will get very interesting.

This is so big, now, that ABC News is even investigating.

See, at the end of the day the networks understand one thing. Ratings. Scandals sell. No matter what side of the aisle you are on.

"I mean, there are a lot of things we can do," Obama said. "The way I think about it is, you know, this is a great, great country that had gotten a little soft and, you know, we didn't have that same competitive edge that we needed over the last couple of decades. We need to get back on track."

Barack Obama Sep/29 2011

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/obama-u-s-had-gotten-a-little-soft-in-last-couple-decades-lost-competitiveness/

Yes, we've had so it good in this country, what with 9%+ unemployment, 1 in 6 people living in poverty, 1 in 7 on food stamps, 24 million people unemployed or under-employed. That good life certainly has softened up this country.

Obama might as well get on national tv again and just give his malaise speech.

The only thing soft in this country is the leadership in the White House.

Navy- welcome back, and Congrats on the new job, fellow citizen and great American!

What America needs, he says finally, is the same requirement that makes the military work, which is "accountability for outcomes." A political system that works — whether it's in Islamabad or Kabul or Washington — is one that takes responsibility for solving the problems that do not yield to force of arms.

Unintended perhaps, but those words are a devastating indictment of the Obama record. If the notion of 'accountability for outcomes' will have any meaning in the 2012 election, then Obama is already toast.

Pat:

Nice post. The media has been lacking true journalists for a long time now. Joe on MSNBC with that idiot Buchannan keep fostering the same lies from two years ago.

Nobody calls them on it and that is the problem. As long as people will allow these guys to lie, the more they will do it. They even keep spilling out the same ones over and over again.

It is a sign of their gross impotence as a Party. They have nothing for Americans and they know it.

They are still the party of Wall Street over Main Street, the 2% over the 98% and Big Business over Small Business. They are just being more bold in the lies and rhetoric.

great country that had gotten a little soft

I know there is an Anthony Wiener joke in there someplace..........

@ IR --

Not much time today, but I wanted to thank you for the post about Admiral Mullen. I've been following him for a little while, and have nothing but the highest admiration for him and for his efforts these past few years.

Rather than coasting to the finish line, I believe that recently he has been in Pakistan, spending his final few days as Chairman trying to make something coherent emerge from the chaos there.

He will surely be missed.

I stopped to take inventory of the things in my life and around me.

So life is good for Me First DBO. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, too funny.

@Pat

It's OK I don't have to read a treatise on Racism to understand motivations. After reading this board for 4 years and seeing the comments I have a simple rule of thumb to decide if someone is racist.

If criticize this administration you're a racist.

It doesn't matter if you have legitimate differences on policy with the Administration. It doesn't matter if you don't accept that things could be worse if they hadn't spent $1T indiscriminately. It doesn't matter if they passed a totally partisan Health care Reform bill that a majority disagreed with. It doesn't matter if you thought the idea of sending 30K more troops to Afghanistan was a mistake. It doesn't matter that even today you feel uncomfortable with the fact that an American President can order the execution on an American citizen with no semblance of trial (even in the court of public opinion).

All that matters is that if you disagree with a black (mixed-race) President you are a racist.

Judge Joe:

Sorry AM, a fair trial MUST include fair instructions to the jury. And, by definition, the whole structure of America’s court system requires an appellate court to “substitute its own analysis” of what happens in lower courts. And there is a reason why the Supreme Court is called “supreme”.

I don't have time to combat with you this morning, your honor. You're right, of course, but in my own defense I will only add that any technicality that let the scumbags at Enron off the hook is about as much to be admired as the technicality that let Oliver North off the hook many years ago.

As for the Court being "supreme," there's another way of putting it that I subscribe to, especially in the era of Citizens United and in light of our recent experience in Wisconsin:

They're not final because they're right; they're right because they're final.

Big difference.

No one ever said the legal system was perfect. Have a nice weekend, okay?

No Bill It was intentional. More an indictment of the Republican/T.P. platform of Constant Obstructionism I would say. You can't get "accountability for outcome" if you don't first agree there has to be an "outcome"

Funny Drive By, I keep reading on this site that the Tea Party is "destroying this country"

Since all seems to be well with you, I guess that can't be true either now can it?

Pat, Boston, excellent, thank you for posting. It seems that too many, including liberals, hold this President to a higher standard. It would be a boost for America if the media began to analyze their own motives, their own participation in distortion and promotion of the lies spoken by those out to discredit President Obama. The media needs to do some soul searching to again find honesty in journalism.

"So life is good for Me First DBO. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, too funny."

So nice to see you have a sense of humor. We've been worried a little lately...

Re WCA and Mr Me First Bill-

Geez- try to be a little positive, and they hate THAT.

Keep 'em coming, guys. We're begining to take you R E A L serrious now.....

Welcome Home Navy. Congrats on the job.

Buzz: don’t know- I guess I better quit now, and go back to searching for more evidence of this ‘destruction’ that seems to have engulfed the nation.

Glad to see all is good with you Buzz.

It's important that #1 is taken care of in your life. It is a "Me First" society you know.

@David

Don't forget the new taxes that are coming on line

Starting in 2013, a 0.9% Medicare surtax will apply to wages in excess of $200,000 for single taxpayers and over $250,000 for married couples. Also, for the first time ever, a Medicare tax will apply to investment income of high earners. The 3.8% levy will hit the lesser of (1) their unearned income or (2) the amount by which their adjusted gross income exceeds the $200,000 or $250,000 threshold amounts. The new law defines unearned income as interest, dividends, capital gains, annuities, royalties, and rents. Tax-exempt interest won’t be included, nor will income from retirement accounts.

Also, what is the favorite proposal for liberals to save SS. That's right get rid of the 106K cap, and tax everything above it. Are you against this proposal? Or, after we revert to the Clinton rates you are also for a 6% increase on taxes above 106K.

Nothing negative about it DBO, Glad to see you agree that Republicans and the Tea Party are not destroying the country.

Welcome aboard!

More an indictment of the Republican/T.P. platform of Constant Obstructionism

Nope. Opposition to policies that are bad for America is just that -- opposition. It's only 'obstructionism' to those who support those policies and demonize everyone who disagrees with them.

Alan NJ: Here is an article on tax planning after any increases. It seems you may be able to pay less.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/your-money/taxes/obama-tax-plan-could-be-a-wash-for-some-high-earners.html?_r=1&ref=taxes

“Pass this bill.”

Obama spit this up a couple hundred times in front of Congress then leaves town to campaign and spit up all over the country.

Everyday all you guys regurgitate the mindless mantra of “Pass this job bill.”

Now Obama and his NEA have “the children” spitting it up on TV……but funny ….. (for once) no spit up from the dems in Congress that have to run for re-election, no action from the Senate.

Harry has introduced it, but is just way to busy …. Way to busy …. To bring it to a vote.

So what has he been working on, what is so pressing? According to IBD, trying to:

- Designate Sept. 12 as National Day of Encouragement and Sept 23 as National Falls Prevention and Awareness Day

- Passing a resolution supporting a National Brain Aneurysm Awareness Month

- Declaring October National Principals Month

- Creating a National Estuaries Day

- Honoring this the International Year of Chemistry

- Passing the Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act

- Recognizing Sept. 24 as a Worldwide Day of Play

Oh well, even Reid knows this has no chance of getting enough dem support to not embarrass Obama.

But back to national days, national months and national years Harry …. Here is one for ya.

2012 – National Do A Damn Budget Year

Odd, Bill Fairfax, I see that as a "devastating indictment" of Bush and Cheney--who started two unfunded wars with massive troop deployments and finished neither of those wars. Just as they left an economic collapse, they left two wars to be unwound without causing greater harm by President Obama.

Alan: Also, what is the favorite proposal for liberals to save SS. That's right get rid of the 106K cap, and tax everything above it. Are you against this proposal? Or, after we revert to the Clinton rates you are also for a 6% increase on taxes above 106K.

What you never get from Obama, Reid, Durbin, Pelosi, or any of the "Tax 'em Hard" crowd is a comprehensive plan for those taxes. Sure Obama's stump speech he's been giving talks about taxing the wealthy, make them pay their fair share (what ever that is), tax the ones that can most afford it, the same old populist rhetoric he always uses. Fine, so put pen to paper and write down exactly who you want to tax, what taxes you want to raise, and by how much.

Obama and Company won't do it. They won't do it because many of the voters that are cheering Obama's populist message are in fact the target of his tax increases. And unlike unemployed rich former Google employees that want their taxes raised, most people in this country feel they already pay enough taxes.

Nope I'll stand on it. You can only have an "outcome" if you factor into the mission what is possible. In our present climate of "no compromise" we do not have the possibility. All because you'll fellows want to put one man out of a job.

Bill, Fairfax:

Nope. Opposition to policies that are bad for America is just that -- opposition. It's only 'obstructionism' to those who support those policies and demonize everyone who disagrees with them.

Too simplistic, Bill, especially where the Republican majority leader in the Senate declared in November, 2010, that the number one goal was to ensure that the President did not get a second term.

What did that have to do with fair opposition to specific proposals, when Republicans hadn't yet heard the proposals?

Furthermore, this appears to remain the goal, irrespective of whatever policies the President might introduce. It has become a conscious, concerted effort to bring one man down, regardless of his policies.

And that is the very essence of obstructionism.

I see that as a "devastating indictment" of Bush and Cheney

But, but, but...the Chosen One was supposed to make everything better.

David Walker, fantastic post at 1.6. It's hard to argue with the numbers. As one of my plain-talking, elderly Missouri relatives once said to me, "if I have to pay taxes on it I must've made some money." The apocalyptic warnings from Conservatives that "creators" will simply "go on strike" if they pay a little more in taxes just isn't sensible on its face.

In comparison, let's consider what we have to do if we just eliminate capital gains taxes or corporate income taxes as Conservatives advocate. Congratulations, their profit margins just increased without doing a single thing! They didn't have to think about it. They didn't have to work for it. They didn't have to take a single risk.

What if, instead we pass the American Jobs Act and put money into the hands of workers? Well, then you have to EARN my money, as with all middle class workers. You'll have to take risks by funding economic development and chancing that new products won't become popular. You'll have to offer an appropriate balance between price and customer service. You'll have to manage your costs so you can make a profit. You will, in fact, have to do what businesses are SUPPOSED to do, in the highest tradition of American Capitalism.

the number one goal was to ensure that the President did not get a second term

Right, the number one goal was to defeat a man who is bad for America. That may be a simple concept, but it is by no means simplistic.

As for the Court being "supreme," there's another way of putting it that I subscribe to, especially in the era of Citizens United and in light of our recent experience in Wisconsin:

They're not final because they're right; they're right because they're final.

Big difference.

No one ever said the legal system was perfect. Have a nice weekend, okay?

_____________________________________________

At least Citizens United was based on an actual right written into the text of the First Amendment of the Constitution, the right to freedom of speech. Unlike Roe v Wade which was based on a tortured reading of the "penumbras" of the Constitution. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the "right" to abortion. I have a problem with finding the "right" in the Constitution when it's not really there. That's why the founders included Article V Amendment in the Constitution.

You have a good weekend too.

WCA,

FYI -

Chu was instrumental in getting a $500 million grant from BP for UC Berkeley.

Berkeley gave Obama $1,500,000.

Chu got Secretary of Energy.

Welcome back Navy. That's Great that you have the new job. Of course the Radical Right continues to post here with their nonsense, that President Obama Bad, and the Right good.

But, you know how it is with the people on the Radical Right, who are just plain stuck on stupid.

Dont_carry_it_all

Alan NJ: Here is an article on tax planning after any increases. It seems you may be able to pay less.....

Huge number of caveats in the article the biggest being that both earners work for a corporation (not even a small company never mind their own). What is apparent in my mind is that tax simplification is the way to go, along with a small reduction in rates. I do not understand why the Administration has not pushed (at the very least) corporate tax reform as there seems to a willingness on both sides to attempt this.

Debate Moderator: President Obama, you have had record deficits for every year of your presidency. How do you explain that to the American people.

Obama: Well, I inherited two wars, two unpaid for wars from my predecessor, George Bush, that caused the massive deficits.

DM: But Mr. Obama, the deficits under President Bush were a quarter of what yours are today, certainly you spent the money on something else?

Obama (starting to sweat): Uhh, yeah, we, uhhh, wespent a trillion on a stimulus program, you know, uhh, to create jobs, yeah, . . .

DM: But Mr. Obama, no jobs were created, in fact many were lost, and you accounting practice of "jobs saved" was panned by every one.

Obama (sweating profusely): Um, ehh, yeah, well, that Stimulus, that, uhh, it was big, but not big, uhh, enough. We needed to spend more but the, uhhh, Republicans wouldn't let us, it's, umm, their fault.

DM: Mr. Obama, your party owned Congress for two years, certainly you're not telling us the Republicans are at fault for your now failed policies.

Obama (sputtering): Ehh, Hope and Change!!

DM: Mr. Romney to you.

Romney: No thanks, just let him keep talking.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Hi guys. Been away for awhile as I have accepted a new Job that has me in training for another week or so and then I will be back on the board.

______________________________

Mothballed Navy: J-f'in'-C, How did you ever get a new job when Congress hasn't even passed Barry's new $500 billion "stimulus" bill??

Your right on US NAVY. The common folk (the vast majority of the voters) think he's nothing but a loud mouth Bully. You certainly wouldn't want him as a neighbor let alone your President. If he's the best the GOP's got, then their in big trouble.

Wow, drive-by-observer, that was a long post for you!

I've been meaning to say, I really love your wit and your acerbic style. Your posts are among those that keep this blog entertaining.

Republicans have trumpeted "the sky is falling!" since Obama took office, regardless of the fact unemployment was higher under Ronald Reagan (although the moneybags on Wall Steet appear to be trying to beat that record) or that under Obama's leadership, we are finally addressing the issues that Bush ignored ,like our failing schools, the approaching Baby Boomer retirement crisis, dependency on oil, and the weakness of our manufacturing base.

Mighty fine posts Floyd, Pat, Boston, David, JohnB and the rest of the liberal voices - as usual! ;o)

Good to see you back on deck again Navy!

If there was 5% unemployment, and a majority in favor of HCR would you still be calling the Republicans obstructionists? If the President was on his way to easy re-election because his policies had succeeded would you even care about the republicans?

Or is it because his policies have failed that your need a scapegoat?

Hi Drive By,

That is a pretty darn good post that show the sky is not falling as the Radical Right and Big Business Bosses are saying. If we could just clean those guys up, America would be on top again.

St. Warren of the Left is on CNBC right now and, when asked twice if he agreed that the "Buffett rule" tax on "millionaires and billionaires" should apply to anyone making more the $200,000/families $250,000, he twice refused to answer.

Sounds like St. Warren of the Left thinks Barry is wrong to call $200,000/$250,000 "millionaires and billionaires" but, is afrad to call Barry a moron.

DUH!!!

Anna Molly,

An obstruction is a barrier, to block the path of, to prevent something from happening.

You normally find them on the edge of cliffs, etc.

Think of repubs as a kind of guard rail to prevent a head on a collision with with disaster.

You're welcome.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

I'm so glad to see you back. I really missed you. What do you think of Chris Christie?

Good luck on your new job.

Right. It's not simplistic. Good Run on it. Own It. Seems to be working out so well for all of you'll. Obama's toast. Right. Good luck with that. Hell you'll have to find you a candidate that's capable of stringing it together to get your Simple message out without stepping all over his or her crank with Golf shoes. So far you'll can't seem to pick a winner out of a bunch of Culls. Think maybe your messaging is more of a problem than you'll think it is.

Damn Drive By - you are special, and gosh darn it people like you.

Sad that you have to take stock and convince yourself you are doing ok to support Obama.

Too bad most people are shallow like me. We don't need lengthy lists or self evaluation to know - we are all, and yes you too, worse off now because of Obama and his terrible policies.

Bill, Fairfax VA

But, but, but...the Chosen One was supposed to make everything better.

Were you the guy who was shrieking at Obama that he was the Anti-Christ a couple days ago? Or are you just full of BS as usual? Nobody I know who supports the president ever thought of him as any sort of messiah who was going to "make everything better."

BTW: That was good article by Bob Cesca in this thread.

John B:

Thank you for the kind words. It is quite clear that the majority of my fellow citizens are terrified by numbers. I believe that is one of the reasons there are so many graduates having difficulty finding work. Many of them have deliberately chosen majors that do not require any math or science classes. There's only so many jobs out there for graduates who have degrees in Women's Studies, Anthropology, Sociology, and similarly demanding majors.

I've had occasion to teach and/or tutor kids in arithmetic. They truly are terrified. I begin by explaining that the first two years of a Math Teacher's curriculum are dedicated to learning how to scare kids.

The trick is to find some area of interest they have and show them how numbers are relevant in their world. It's amazing how fast they pick it up. Of course, there are some kids who will always be afraid, and some who simply don't have the mental horse power. Unfortunately, most teachers just don't have the luxury of a one-on-one opportunity. Their job is well-nigh impossible.

I know there are many self-identified "conservatives" who are terrified by numbers, to the extent that they swallow this nonsensical "taxing the rich is a crime" without question. My goal is to find a way to take the fear out of arithmetic so they can understand that they are voting against their own self-interest when they buy the Republican lies.

Alan, NJ:

I'm not forgetting the new taxes. I specifically referred to FICA. However, let me expand with this heresy. Social Security is constructed along the lines of a Ponzi Scheme. It is predicated on infinite growth, which is an impossibility. It has other problems as well, including expanded benefits, faulty/outdated actuarial assumptions, etc. Do remember Social Security at its inception was not intended to be a retirement, but rather a supplement, if and when needed.

For obvious reasons, aligning Social Security with reality is the third rail. (The Tea Party/Me First crowd will absolutely wail and gnash their teeth with a fury that will exceed anything we are warned about in hell.) Reality is a bitch.

I can offer solutions, but only if we eliminate the inevitable "But it's not fair" whine and whimper.

Forget this earned and unearned income crap. Income is income. Tax it all at the same rate.

Return to means testing. This is a supplement. You don't need it. You don't get it.

Go to single-payer health care. Eliminate the profit motive from health care. Damn, that's so freaking sick, I can hardly stand it.

Overhaul the entire tax code. It is a fiction to say that 47%, or 51%, or whatever is the number du jour do not pay income tax. Anyone who makes a purchase in this country is paying the taxes of the person from whom they made the purchase. They don't pay directly to the IRS, but they're paying taxes. They're included in the price.

I'd like to see everyone pay at least $1.00 per month in direct tax. That may not sound like much, but years ago, Kaiser Permanente instituted a $1.00 co-pay on prescriptions and drug use dropped by 50%. There is something to be said for direct vesting in your country, even if it's only $12.00 per year.

This is a great country and there is no GOOD reason it can't be even greater. Elizabeth Warren is spot-on with the truth. We have to pay it forward. Honestly, you've had a pretty wonderful life, haven't you? I can't see any reason to deny the same benefits I've enjoyed to anyone else in this fabulous land.

Alan NJ -- Convoluted does not begin to describe this mess. The shame is that the Deficit Committee is at work (occasionally) and it seems some (Camp, R), claim there will not be enough time to negotiate tax reforms..... And what does he think his job is in this committee? Well I think I can make a good guess.

"An obstruction is a barrier, to block the path of, to prevent something from happening"

@Bob180...

Yes, the Repubs policies and vision for the country are an obstruction in the middle of the road for a job bill, budget negotiations, etc.

Their vison for effective government is to eliminate it. The party of NO, is the giant obstructing neon billboard that blocks any view of the beautiful landscape of America coming together to provide for the common good of all its citizens.

The Repub give the middle class the obstructed view in the hotel, be glad you have a bed so what if all you see out the window is a brick wall. Meanwhile they give the elites the top floor penthouse with with room service and a killer view.

Thanks for the kind words Amy, Job1, and others, but on here, the humor writes itself.

Daily.

No- hourly. And for that, I must openly and sincerely thank NoJo, Spank, JAS1, Mr Bill, Albany Joe and many, many more.

Joe in Albany -- CNN is currently interviewing Buffett. I will post the interview when available it seems you will have the answer you were looking for.

AM-

Looks like we see eye-to-eye on Admiral Mullen. He's a great patriot, and will be missed.

I seem to recall a discussion with you related to Admiral Mullen's assertion that our nation's debt is the greatest single threat to its national security.

We owe him for that warning and a good deal more.

Were you the guy who was shrieking at Obama that he was the Anti-Christ a couple days ago? Or are you just full of BS as usual?

Good grief if you're going to go into knee jerk trash the messenger mode, you might at least get your facts straight instead of accusing me of that anti-christ nonsense. Between the two of us, you're the one full of BS and always have been.

The party of NO, is the giant obstructing neon billboard that blocks any view of the beautiful landscape of America coming together to provide for the common good of all its citizens.

The 'common good of all its citizens' is not advanced by divisive rhetoric and policies that pit one American against another. The common good is not advanced by taking from those who have and giving to those who have less. The common good is advanced by policies that enable the economy to grow and thereby produce a broader prosperity that can be shared by all. Reagan and Clinton presided over job growth of around 40 million or so in their respective terms. Heck, even Bush II presided over job growth of around 8 million until the financial meltdown. That's the kind of job growth that's the key to a more broadly shared prosperity going forward -- not the redistributionist policies of the left that rob Peter in order to give to Paul and stifle economic growth in the process.

Bill, Fairfax VA

Were you the guy who was shrieking at Obama that he was the Anti-Christ a couple days ago? Or are you just full of BS as usual?

Good grief if you're going to go into knee jerk trash the messenger mode, you might at least get your facts straight instead of accusing me of that anti-christ nonsense.

In your case, it's the messenger who's dishing out the trash. You're just plain lying about anyone here ever claiming that Obama was "the chosen one" who was going to "make everything better."

@Bill,FVA

The 'common good of all its citizens' is not advanced by divisive rhetoric and policies that pit one American against another.

I agree with your statement.

But then you go and end your statement on job growth and shared prosperity with your belief that the "left" rob Peter to give to Paul, and stifle economic growth"!

The common good is for all the Peters , Pauls, Peggys and Paulas. The financial crises that lead to this deep recession was the "robbers" of Wall Street, AIG Countryside, Citi Bank, Lehman Bros etc . They destroyed the housing market, lead to consumers to stop spending which led to layoffs, which lead to less government revenue at every level...

Now the GOP , rather than work together with Dems in the state and federal level ,are indeed, obstructing every attempt to solve this crises with one word:NO. No hurry for congress, work three days a week, three week a month. In fact, to say NO over and over again, Congress might as well shut down until after the 2012 elections.

Albany Joe:

At least Citizens United was based on an actual right written into the text of the First Amendment of the Constitution, the right to freedom of speech. Unlike Roe v Wade which was based on a tortured reading of the "penumbras" of the Constitution. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the "right" to abortion. I have a problem with finding the "right" in the Constitution when it's not really there. That's why the founders included Article V Amendment in the Constitution.

Whoever doubted that free speech is a right guaranteed in the Constitution?

The only issue in question is whether a corporation is a person, and thereby entitled to avail itself of that right. Talk about a tortured reading. Show me that in the "penumbra" or anywhere else in the Constitution.

A corporation is not a "natural born" person, but only a legislative construction. A corporation does not come into being naturally. Corporations only come into being if they are artificially created by human beings, according to statutory regulations.

There is no long-standing body of corporate common law that supports reading of the Constitution as protecting corporations the same as individual citizens.

"We the people of the United States ..." is not "We the people and corporations of the United States..."

Corporations, being creatures of statutes, can be dissolved by statute. But a corporation does not die naturally, and it cannot dissolve itself. It takes people to do it; and again, they must follow statutory rules.

Is that euthanasia? Of course, not. How silly.

By contrast, the right to privacy originates in common law, clearly evidenced by the fact that the tort of "invasion of privacy" is recognized in most states, irrespective of the Constitution, and even without specific legislation. The "legitimate expectation of privacy" against unreasonable intrusion long predates the Constitution, and interpreting the "penumbra" of the Bill of Rights as protecting citizens against such invasions of their legitimate privacy interests by their government is something that every conservative -- and especially libertarians -- ought to respect.

Bag Boy:

I seem to recall a discussion with you related to Admiral Mullen's assertion that our nation's debt is the greatest single threat to its national security.

We owe him for that warning and a good deal more.

I have absolutely no problem with that idea, although energy dependency also has to rank right up there. As you know, our main area of disagreement relates only to how we should achieve the reduction of debt necessary for our long-term security.

Both of you boys have a wonderful weekend.

bob:

Think of repubs as a kind of guard rail to prevent a head on a collision with with disaster.

You're welcome.

Thanks for presuming you know what's best for me, but I generally follow the road.

Maybe you ought to look to your own house. If anyone is careening down the road looking for disaster, and dragging us all with you, it appears to be your side.

But I'll grant that meeting issues "head-on" is not your style.

Your chosen route is the cliff.

Anna Molly:

Corporations, being creatures of statutes, can be dissolved by statute. But a corporation does not die naturally, and it cannot dissolve itself. It takes people to do it; and again, they must follow statutory rules.

Is that euthanasia? Of course, not. How silly.

No, it's murder most foul! Where were the right-to-lifers when Enron met it's untimely demise? Enron, we hardly new ye! RIP.

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Very proud of our military, sound job by the president for pointing the arrow where it belongs. Obama destroying our country? I just don't buy it (my orange juice never tasted better and the family is doing fine; I just don't agree with some of the man's policies, yet some like popping these terrorists like ticks, I do). I never considered that perhaps Obama is more like Bush 1 rather than like Carter. Changes the game a bit in my mind...

You're just plain lying

There you go again Houston, playing fast and loose with that 'lying' charge without need of compelling proof or fear of adverse consequence -- a game that you play all the time. Maybe someone needs to refresh your memory about what candidate Obama was telling us in 2008:

"I know these are difficult times. I know folks are worried. But I also know this - we can steer ourselves out of this crisis….Over the course of this campaign, I've laid out a set of policies that will grow our middle-class and strengthen our economy…"

Obama campaign speech, Toledo, Ohio, Oct 13, 2008.

"I've said it before and I'll say it again: we need to pass an economic stimulus plan that will help folks cope with rising food and gas prices, save one million jobs by rebuilding our schools and roads, and help states and cities avoid budget cuts and tax increases….We need policies that will grow this economy from Main Street to Wall Street and everywhere in between - so that the 21st century is another American century."

Obama campaign speech, Reno, Nevada, September 30, 2008

"…if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment – this was the time – when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals."

Obama campaign speech, St. Paul Minnesota, June 2, 2008

I could cite many more rhetorical flourishes of the same ilk, but even you should get the picture. If his 2008 rhetoric wasn't a hopey-changey-yes-we-can message that promised a vote for Obama was a vote for making things better, than I don't know what is. I especially like that riff about slowing the rise of the oceans. Rather Messiahanic, eh?

The common good is for all the Peters , Pauls, Peggys and Paulas.

Correct.

Now the GOP , rather than work together with Dems in the state and federal level ,are indeed, obstructing every attempt to solve this crises with one word:NO

Incorrect. They are opposing policies promoted by Democrats to "solve" the crisis because Republicans don't believe those policies "solve" anything. Case in point, Stimulus 1 didn't put the economy on the path to robust economic growth, so why should anyone believe Stimulus 2 will do the trick? Heck, even Senate Dems don't seem to be too enthusaistic about the idea.

As mentioned previously, Reagan-Clinton-Bush II presided over the creation of almost 50 million jobs during their tenures. That's a big number, and a number that will make lots of Peters, Pauls, Peggys and Paulas happy. The issue is how best to get back to creating jobs at that pace. Obama's answer has already proven to be a failure, so if anyone needs to stop obstructing progress it's him.

Bill, Fairfax VA

You're just plain lying

There you go again Houston, playing fast and loose with that 'lying' charge without need of compelling proof or fear of adverse consequence -- a game that you play all the time. Maybe someone needs to refresh your memory about what candidate Obama was telling us in 2008:

There you go again trying to change the subject when you're caught in one of your lies. Obama never said he was "the chosen one" who was going to "make everything better" or anything remotely similar. And neither did anyone else. It does so annoy you when people point out that you're just slinging BS. Tough.

BTW: On the subject of lying, Lawrence O'Donnell was absolutely right for calling Chris Christie a liar for saying that Obama was "a bye stander" in his administration after all the things Obama has accomplished that the right wingers claim are so terrible. How can they claim he's just a bye stander and simultaneously attack "Obamacare" at the same time? I'd say that they can't have it both ways, but conservatives seem to believe they can have it anyway they please, at any given moment.

It does so annoy you when people point out that you're just slinging BS. Tough.

My, my. Gotten under your thin leftist skin have I? Read his campaign speeches. Then come back and explain which one of us is really trying to change the subject -- and which one of us is really doing the lying. You got no game Houston, better luck next time.

The only issue in question is whether a corporation is a person, and thereby entitled to avail itself of that right. Talk about a tortured reading. Show me that in the "penumbra" or anywhere else in the Constitution.

A corporation is not a "natural born" person, but only a legislative construction. A corporation does not come into being naturally. Corporations only come into being if they are artificially created by human beings, according to statutory regulations.

There is no long-standing body of corporate common law that supports reading of the Constitution as protecting corporations the same as individual citizens

__________________________________________________

AM: Have you ever heard of the SC decision in Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co??

I believe it established the precedent that corporations ARE persons under the Constitution as far back as 1886 (emphasis added by me):

When the Supreme Court heard Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co. in 1886, few would have pegged the case as a turning point in constitutional law. The matter at hand seemed highly technical: could California increase the property tax owed by a railroad if the railroad built fences on its property? As it turned out, the Court ruled unanimously in the railroad's favor. And in so doing, the Court casually affirmed the railroad's argument that corporations are "persons" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that no state shall "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." So certain were the justices of the Fourteenth Amendment's applicability that their opinion did not engage the issue, but the Court reporter recorded the justices' perspective on the topic:

Before argument Mr. Chief Justice Waite said: 'The Court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution which forbids a state to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws applies to these corporations. We are all of opinion that it does.'

That statement marks the origin of the view that corporations are persons as a matter of constitutional law. This played a central role in the 2010 decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which struck down portions of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act that restricted corporate spending on electioneering communications in the run-up to a federal election. The Court declared that Congress could not discriminate between electioneering communications according to the identity of the speaker: since individual human beings clearly have a First Amendment right to speak about candidates during the election process, so too must corporations.

Yes, but you're ignoring the history which has established corporate personhood as having a very limited scope until our current group of SCOTUS corporatists decided to blow that wide open. That's due to a very legitimate fear of the damage which could be done by giving corporations full rights of personhood, a concern that goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson.

And if a long history of doing things in a particular way were to be considered binding on the Supreme Court, then Brown v Board of Education would have had to have been decided in support of "separate, but equal schools" because there was a long history of doing it that way.

Do you really want to make that argument??

Now you're setting up a straw argument assuming my position is that the principle of stare decisis should rule all. It's ridiculous of you to try to steer the conversation in that direction. Stare decisis would dictate that previously settled law should take precedence unless there's a good reason to change. Obviously that was the case in Brown v Board of Education. Just as obvious to the vast majority of Americans is that the radical vision of corporate personhood advocated by the Roberts court serves no other purpose than corruption. It allows corporations to buy the government they wish and Americans know it, with 4 out of 5 favoring a constitutional amendment to overturn the decision. http://freespeechforpeople.org/sites/default/files/me10129b_public.pdf Only the most radical adherents to the John Birch Society vision of an aristocratic republic disagree.

Jody:

Another great week wrap up. As often things change they seem to stay the same. The TP/GOP still does not have a plan to move America Forward - Period.

President Obama is still the only one trying to get America back on its feet. He is the only one offering a true Jobs Bill and not a Spending Cut, Tax Cut, Regulations Repeal Bill that the TP/GOP is trying to pass off as a Jobs Bill.

Still the same old dsame old.

President Obama 2012

Navy, good to see you back on FR. You absence was duly noted by many:)

Great work Jody. And as well I would like to say welcome back US Navy. You are always missed.

As always fine like frog hair split two ways Jody..........Don't worry I've already got the backhoe standing by to clean up the Yahoo Poo.

Jody, excellent observations and reporting. We really have become a nation divided and what may follow is we have done it to ourselves. Too many are against just for the sake of being against and they never say what they are for or how a problem can be fixed.

Navy, so good to have you back, we have missed your voice. Congrats on the new job.

Excellent wrap, as ususal, Jody.

This one caught my eye, though:

"Rush Limbaugh said Herman Cain "could be the first authentically black president". Mr. Cain, do you really think people like Limbaugh will vote for you....ever?"

Just how WILL Cain view all the voter suppression efforts, if he becomes the candidate? Wait- I think you just answered my concern with your 2nd sentence in this paragraph....never mind.

Great recap as always, Jody. And Navy----wonderful to see you posting---congrats on the new job; they are lucky to have you.

The "back to school speech" nontroversy seems to me to be a microcosm for what the Republicans have done since the election---take something that should be nonpartisan and turn it into an issue, bullying people along the way. And it helps to send a message that President Obama isn't the President of all of us (which, sadly, is how they see it).

It's been a fine week of political fodder. Glad you enjoyed the wrap. IR, we'll probably need that backhoe soon.

Navy, I failed to mention above: congratulations on the new job! As others have said, you've been missed here--even sworn political enemies were asking about you.

DBO, from what I've heard about Cain, he's all for voter suppression--he likes the new FL law. He's such an unusual character, late last night I heard he thinks blacks have been "brainwashed" into voting for democrats! Never occurs to him that the republican anti-minority agenda and rhetoric includes anti-Cain.

So the Republicans are RACIST when they oppose a black man's positions and they are RACIST when they support a black man's views......

just can't win with the libs

Hi Jody,

A wonderful recap as always. Thanks

Have I mentioned how much I look forward to your Friday round-ups Jody?

Whew!

I'm late to 'breakfast' this morning & was hoping to get here before the NJ nut job came along and laid down a steaming pile!

***SPRINKLING RIGHT WING RODENT REPELLANT***

Jody,

in local news, you forgot to note that peace broke out, briefly, on First Read.

Jody--wonderful start to the weekend with your excellent recap of the week! I can always count on hearing something that I missed! Navy--welcome back! Your sharp observations have been missed. And congrats on the job.

I have been hearing interviews about the Wall Street protest on "Democracy Now". We are not hearing much about this on the news. Too bad--our brave fellow citizens are out there protesting and once again putting themselves on the line to protest the unmitigated greed of the financial sector. Thomas Jefferson said that that there should be a rebellion about every twenty years or so:

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing....It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of the government...God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion..The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

It would appear we are long overdue!

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

Jody, I have now come to expect an excellent wrap on Friday. Sort of wrap-music to my ears, you understand.

However, to save time, I'm thinking of setting up a function key that says, "Great job. See you next Friday." What do you think?

Nice work with Anwar al-Awlaki, Mr. President.

Looks like you could use some good news for a change.

Thanks, everyone who finds my Friday roundup interesting.

Feisty, happy to make a bit of your day.

Rob, don't you find it disgusting for Limbaugh to have made so many ugly, racist remarks (Barack, the magic Negro is just one of dozens) about President Obama and in the next breath he makes a back-handed racist comment about a republican candidate? That's what his comment was, a back-handed racial put down. I object to Limbaugh and those like him, not Herman Cain. While I disagree with Cain's political views, I find him to be an interesting and capable person.

Nurse, I always look to see if you're here on Fridays. Good addition, hadn't heard about that.

Amy, I did forget that!

David Walker. That's a thought.

i can't really give an opinion - i don't listen to rush limbaugh. The qoutes you cite are not good.

Hey Jody--thank you for including me in the family that is trying to light a candle in the dark! Perhaps together, we can change the world--a little bit at a time! As is said about Zentangles "Anything is possible--one stroke at a time." I am honored to be included!

Jody, Great weekly wrap up... as usual.

"could be the first authentically black president".

Just wondering what makes someone "authentically black"? And what is it about Mr. Cain that makes him more "authentically black" than President Obama? Just wondering.

President Obama ASSASINATES US Citizen without a trial!

Of course that won’t be the headline anywhere around here but that’s exactly what happened. And to quote (somewhat) Michelle Obama “For the first time in my life I’m proud of our President”.

Amwar al-Awlaki was a Muslim terrorist dirt bag and like all Muslim terrorist dirt bags he deserved a drone strike right in the eye. I thank Obama for taking him out and setting the precedent for the incoming Republican President in 2013 to follow suit.

It’s really amazing that there was such hubbub made of pouring some water on the faces of a few terrorist a few years back. I have to say this is the best thing about having a liberal president. He just made it okay for future presidents to assassinate ANYONE without any due process whatsoever - never mind water boarding. And we certainly, shouldn’t hear any more of that nonsense about Bush and Cheney being WAR CRIMINALS. The things they did are chump change next to Obama.

And from now on I will never criticize the President for not calling the Muslim Terrorists Muslim Terrorists. He can call them enemy combatants, extremists for all I care he can call them misunderstood. I now know that our Prez is truly a steely eyed KILLA! GO Obama!

This is a great day for democracy. Thanks you Mr. President!

"And now we hear that we have killed this scumbag Rad Muzzie named Awlaki"

But you can rest easy, there, Danger- we all KNOW it was all made possible by the Dick.

(which reminds me, First Read- why never any Halliburton stories any more??)

Well, Damage, it seems that enforcing the immigration laws isn't what conservatives really want now is it? You just want something to complain about.

As for assassinating an American Al-Qaeda cleric who swore to kill Americans, no longer lived in the USA, no longer swore alligiance to the American flag, who swore hatred of our country--I thought conservatives demanded that every Al Qaeda terrorist be hunted down and brought to justice, remember President Bush "dead or alive". While I am all for fair trials, in this War on Terror, it seems the USA must be as ruthless as the terrorists. This cleric would have no qualms about killing thousands of Americans wherever and whenever he could. Where would we put him on trial? The GOPTP doesn't want any terrorists brought to this country and placed on trial; if they did, they would have supported closing Gitmo instead of fear mongering. Sorry, Rob, that dog won't hunt. You can't have it both ways.

Rob, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or genuine or both.

Maybe you're not getting it, Jody. Deporting millions of illegals and killing and jailing Islamic Radicals and terrorists is great! I just don't understand why Obama has not been bragging about it and mentioning these things as great accomplishments. Both are things that any American president should be proud of.

And yesterday, Bev pastes this list of all Obama's acheivements and I saw no mention of either. Why? Could it be that you liberals are ashamed that Obama has deported so many illegals? Afterall, when conservatives called for cracking down on illegals, you liberals called us all racists and facists...right?

And the things that Obama is now doing to Islamic Radicals (things that I support him doing) are the SAME things that had you people screaming "criminal!" when done by Bush and Cheney. So what gives? Is Obama a "war criminal" too? I don't think so but by the standards you people set when Bush was in office, he must be. Is this why you are so selective in listing his triumphs?

Jody - my emotions are mixed on it.....of course I'm thrilled that this guy is now dead but my sarcasism comes from the fact that I believe we lost many troops because Bush tried to placate the left by going soft minimizing collateral damage. But now the left praises Obama following and superceding Bush policy.

I never would have thought that Obama would use the drones as effectively as he has. So he has my compliments. I do wish he that he would not disregard the recommendations of commanders in the fields of afghanistan that criticize the Septmeber pullout which everyone know is for politics.

The list of Obama accomplishments is so vast, even liberals reserve space for other posts,...

Or at least that's how I viewed it.

Rob, I agree with much of what you said. When I first read your comment, I was certain it was sarcasm but when I re-read it, wasn't sure which is why I made that second remark. I also have mixed emotions, hate the unnecessary war in Iraq and the cost in blood and treasure; hate the entire Bush Doctrine but also do not have much sympathy for the likes of this American born terrorist. I appreciate your comments and the discussion.

As for Damage, unlike President Bush, President Obama is not one to make a big deal about just doing the job of President. You will not see Obama landing on a aircraft carrier with a mission accomplished banner in the background. I get it, it seems you don't.

DBO - you are living in fairy tale land if you think obama is going to win re-election.

he's lost 20 points among black voters alone. no dems even want him around anymore.

Rob- how many times we gotta say it:

Yes, Obama's lost ground. BUT it doesn't mean the voters are all fired up about going out and selecting 'crazy' for their leader next cycle.

But- you could be right. He COULD lose. I, for one, am willing to wait and see- not proclaim the loss ahead of time like the detractors on here that have been doing that since BEFORE he even took office.

DBO....you noticed that too? He sounds more desparate than usual. Cant wait when the Pres. wins re election do you suppose they will explode or evaporate. It'll be fun to watch.

They will vote for thier messiah without fail. But DBO, the independents won't and you may be eating your words or I may. Just have to wait and see.

Hi Drive Buy,

The people such as Rob are so funny. They believe anything their Radical Right bosses tell them.

DBO, so true. It seems the right is all "stirred up", maybe they realize there's not a keeper in that bunch of GOPTP candidate wannabees.

Independents are the worst kind of voters nothing but fence sitters. They have no allegiance to anything or anyone, their position is no help, they just enjoy the attention, and if challenged on a position, will say, oh I'm not a conservative or a liberal, I'm an Independent, which is nothing but a cop out.

Waiting to see which way the wind blows is not a position. Stand up for what you believe in and be proud of it.

Job1,

You worship at the alter of obama.

Gingerbread.

Independents are people who wake up the day after an election and say "darn! Forgot to vote again!"

I heard a report that FOX is doing its best to undermine and discredit Governor Chris Christie. Pretty bad when the right-wing is trying to harm the right wing.

The problem I see for CNN hosts like John King and Morgan, when they start sounding and behaving like FOX hosts, they won't keep the middle of the road viewers let alone the liberals.

Trouble is Yellow Dog, you forgot the rest of Biden's comment where he talked about what happens when voters have a clear choice, a choice between failed policies of the past and Obama/Biden. You might want to get the rest of that exact quote posted so that you present a clear picture of what Biden said, all of it.

Good morning Jody - I usually don't clip lengthy page long quotes, just my style, however. Continuation from Huffington Post...

Biden stressed, though, that while Americans might blame the Obama administration for the economy now, the 2012 election would not simply be a referendum on the current administration, but a choice between Democrats and Republicans.

"Right now -- understandably, totally legitimate -- this is a referendum on Obama and Biden and the nature and state of the economy," Biden said. "It's soon going to be a choice."

_______

What stark choice are they offering because I don't see a big difference between the current brand of democratic ideals and republican ideals? Practically every decision and policy has been tainted with conservative ideas trumping liberal ones. Tax cuts are now talked about like the silver bullet. We have gone from leading from behind to being led by the nose by the Tea Party contingent. We have gone from winning the future to gutting spending in the present.

The wars continue and despite the draw down in Iraq they will go on. Even after the supposed removals from combat theaters next year, we will continue in significant numbers to stay past our mandate. There is no way the military will give up those supposed strategic locations and bases. Perhaps this is no longer a large issue to the american public, somehow it got trumped by the deficit talks.

Was not online here but as soon as he was elected among friends I stressed that he should consider his presidency as a guaranteed one term. With that time line in mind I would accept one term if he had significant accomplishments. He could have passed more meaninful health care reform instead of letting republicans and the health care companies write its provisions. Although Senators like Russ Feingold and others complained that financial regulation reform was limited and didn't address the problems that caused the great fall, we have a toothless reform bill nonetheless. Despite promises to end the Bush Tax cuts and bring fairness to tax policy they somehow continue.

My pet issue which many on both the left and right couldn't care a lick about comprehensive immigration reform will not be addressed either. The DOJ deportation policies and Secure communities provisions continue to separate families and deport non threatening immigrants.

Continuation of many of Bush's foreign policy and civil liberty breaches.

Reigning in the EPA from helping to enforce cleaner air and water in the attempt to ease regulation to spur job growth. I'm sorry but environmental concerns should never trumped to spur job growth.

Obama says if you have issues or complaints about the last few years, shake it off and fall in line. Do I believe that the GOP choice is far worse yes. What I fear is that the majority of the public will not see the choice as meaninful or distinct. Don't forget what happens to those millions of young voters who have become disenchanted for lack of jobs and a future?

Jody

You might want to get the rest of that exact quote posted so that you present a clear picture of what Biden said, all of it.

Quoting out of context seems to be a hobby for some people.

Fair enough critique Jody.

Sorry Houston that I don't meet your posting standards. Typically I will read something provide my input, credit something. You are correct in my first post I didn't credit the quote to be from Huffington Post.

Beside that in an attempt to open a dialog, how about we try to think outside the box and outside of our comfort zones. Do you think that a generic Independent is going to vote for Obama in 2012. The reason I ask is we already know what Democrats and Republicans are going to do.

Lists of accomplishments aside, do you believe that Obama will win the independent vote?

So Houston how about we try to think outside the box and outside of our comfort zones. Do you think that a generic Independent is going to vote for Obama in 2012.

Generic independents are as common as the "average American family" with 2.5 kids. You're not going to find many families with that extra half a kid. You're also not going to find many generic independents. They are pretty much split into a bunch of different subgroups: "leaners" who lean towards one part or the other, extremists who are too far right or left to support either party. And then there are the low-info voters who just don't care much about politics but who sure are angry about Obama raising their taxes (even though he actually lowered them) and who blame Obama for mishandling the economy (even though he lacks the powers of a dictator that would be necessary to get around Republican obstructionism).

Maybe Obama can educate enough of the low-info crowd to make a difference, but that's probably not too likely now that corporations can spend unlimited cash on misinforming them. The most likely outcome is that people are going to blame Obama for not fixing the economy that the Republicans messed up and vote them back into power so they can do it all over again.

BTW: I'm not totally hopeless about Obama's prospects. I think his best chance to win is what I call the "Sharron Angle" effect. If the Republicans nominate someone who's so obviously nuts that it even scares the low-info voters , then Obama will win.

Houston - BTW: I'm not totally hopeless about Obama's prospects.

Neither am I. There is a chance he can win, more so if Perry is the nominee vs. someone like Romney. If the economy improves the President's chances increases. Some things are out of his control like the whole European debt crisis. Could cause a new recession. Posted last week how the GOP would laud a deficit plan for Greece and the DOW would be spurred. That is what happened for three of the past five days. Also said that once they started to see their shadows again they would start to panic again. Now I hear that they don't think the Greece bailout is big enough and we are heading for a fall again.

Unfortunately your description of the possible outcomes noted in 9.5 is something I could really see happening. Rick Perry is a bit more evolved then Sharron Angle but perhaps the constant attacks from the other GOP will force him more towards the right and lessen his appeal to independents.

It could be working already. Case in point his fairly reasonable past support for the bill to let undocumented teenagers go to college and make something of themselves in lieu of them becoming less productive or unproductive individuals.

Houston, you may be surprised but judging from your posts that I have seen, you are one of those along with Anna Molly that I tend to agree with on most issues. Obviously, I hearken to the democratic side of aisle, but I do appreciate those that are willing to break from time to time when our side of the aisle shifts further to the right.

Thanks for your response.

Yellowdog-Mark D

I do appreciate those that are willing to break from time to time when our side of the aisle shifts further to the right.

I think Obama's big mistake was shifting too far to the right himself. I don't care one bit about ideological purity, but I thought it was a mistake for him to hire Wall Street people like Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner to deal with the economy without also hiring people more on the left for some balance in the advice he gets, like Paul Krugman. What happened to the "Team of Rivals"? Krugman doesn't have all the answers, but I'm afraid he was justified in saying that the original stimulus package "fills me with despair" because it was just not big enough. Events have proven Krugman right. The stimulus kept us out of a depression, but now that the stimulus funds are running out, the economy is sputtering. While the Republicans along with the conservative Democrats would have blocked additional funds, Obama would have a better case now if he had been repeating Krugman's warning back in 2009 that more stimulus spending was needed.

As for the stock market, its manic-depressive reactions to every piece of news from Europe would be comical if it wasn't hurting so many people.

What a crock of conservative blathering. The polls show that those families, minus the far right, still blame Bush and the GOP for the economic troubles; perhaps that's too difficult for you to grasp.

Now I know why they came up with the phrase "lower than a sack of $#!+".

Your family must be so proud.

Uaw.......that is a very disrespectful post.

Maybe you should address you gripes to conservative John McCain, who is getting disability pension etc as he pulls in a taxpayer funded 6 figure salary plus perks.

Exactly Ginger, We need to save disability for people who really need it. Until the government can get it's act together on how they are spending the tax collections now there is no need to increase taxes. That will just lead to more waste....

UAW, you just proved what everyone already knows about you. The word that comes to mind to describe you best isn't printable so I'll just call you a sniveling, unpatriotic, disrespectful of our military yahoo. Do you have the same attitude for Iraq and Afghanistan disabled veterans who receive a monthly check yet have a civilian job or is it just your jealousy of US Navy that provokes such nonsense.

In other words, UAW, your idea is that a person who is injured and disabled while serving this country and is forced to leave that job deserves no compensation for that injury, no reward for years of service that they would have received in the form of a pension had they been able to stay in the military.

People such as Uaw are nothing more than ignorant A-Holes that hate everyone. People like him can go to hell.

Placing you on ignore, because everything you say is plain stupid. Also, pull you head out of your fanny.

Reading thru the daily dribble of UAW WhiteCollar, it is easy to understand how the US auto industry can't manage thru a business cycle without a bailout. With the likes of white collar manager moronic savants such this in charge, I'm surprised there are any American cars on the road or any American car company operational. BTW-White collar!! How does Navy-disabled interpret into disability pension. Oh right, your keen analyitcal skills allowed you to add 1+1 and come up with 3.

Navy - glad to see you are back and good luck with the new job!!

The military get a pension?? Private sector jobs no longer offer pensions. Isn't it time our government got with the new economic reality of the times??

The best any employee should be entitled to is a 401K. The Government is still living in the past.

Yeah, get with the program, the wealthy "creators" require the cheapening of the American workforce. Wages in the US are still above those in Malaysia, India, and China. Until we in the middle class are "adjusted" to that standard of living we'll be making too much money.

Or we can vote Democratic to protect our way of life.

Pass the American Jobs Act.

Write the Buffett Rule into tax law.

John B,

You are living in the past. That vision of America is dead and buried. This is a world economy now. We are competing with the third world for all work that can be done over there. We are competing with illegal aliens for all work that must be done here.

You must have been asleep when NAFTA was passed. (Bill Clinton I believe.)

And you thought the world wouldn't change. LOL

There it is FR readers, an all-to common admission that the Conservative agenda is war against the middle class. Might as well give up and resign yourselves to living in poverty, everyone, Conservatives say there's no choice.

Just as a reminder, the business case for NAFTA was that it would create a new consumer class in Mexico, thus greatly increasing the size of the combined North American economy and resulting in more wealth for everyone. These days big business has the GOPTP so deep in their back pocket they don't even bother to hide the real agenda...poverty for the average American.

Sure John B, that NAFTA worked out real well didn't it??

So what is your solution to outsorcing?? Let's hear your plan. More taxes?? More unions?? Come on John B. We can't wait for all your solutions. What's yor plan John B??

1. End the tax credit for offshoring jobs. Democrats have been attempting to make this change for several years, but Republicans have been on the side of the multinationals who wish to reduce all labor rates to third world levels.

2. Negotiate new agreements with an eye toward not enabling the undercutting of beneficial regulation. Free Trade as it currently exists has increased pollution in the US from sources in China and Mexico, providing those nations with short-term decreases in cost at the expense of the environment. Child labor is endemic in Southeast Asia, with some Republicans in the USA going so far as to argue for an end to child labor laws here. Nations without minimum wage laws are an obvious hazard to the welfare and standard of living of American citizens. The solution for Republicans has been to propose the end of minimum wage laws here. That's a solution which leads only to poverty for all but the wealthy elites.

3. Take a hard line on anti-competitive practices. Harley Davidson has proven to be an able competitor in the motorcycle market, but they would have gone out of business many years ago had the Reagan Administration taken a hard line on the dumping of Japanese bikes into the US market at below cost in order to destroy American competition. The GW Bush Administration made no such efforts when Chinese and Korean steel, allowing the destruction of thousands of well-paying, middle class jobs.

4. The same is true of currency manipulation, the prime example being artificially tying the value of the Chinese Yuan to that of the US Dollar in order to make Chinese products cheaper in the US and US-produced products more expensive in China. Hand in hand with that, the Chinese government frequently demands that foreign companies establish Chinese production plants in order to do business within their country.

5. Wait. Stop working so hard to give away the future of American workers NOW when time will help with some of these things. The artificial value of the Yuan will eventually FORCE its disconnect from the Dollar because at some point China will need the currency to float in order to control inflation and/or debt.

Oil WILL GET MORE EXPENSIVE OVER TIME. World supply is at or near its peak worldwide and virtually all easily tapped sources are either already under production or in some cases nearly exhausted. Nations like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are already attempting to create new industries that will allow a future without their gigantic oil industries, while manipulating supplies in such a way as to maximize their profits now while keeping prices low enough to discourage the development of alternative energy technologies. This strategy will go right out the window as soon as the economy really starts to churn, and prices will climb rapidly. At their peak in 2008 the price to ship product by ocean TRIPLED from their levels of less than 5 years before. That will bring some of that manufacturing back to the United States.

Which is why the Robber Barons are working so hard to destroy the American middle class NOW, before those changes can start to affect the competitive balance. That's the plan for Conservatives, just make Americans poor. It's a poor substitute for the things we COULD be doing if not for their obstruction.

Pass the American Jobs Act now.

Write the Buffett Rule into tax law.

Ron Paul 1896!!!!!!!!!!!! He'll take you back!

They'll find a way to find something wrong with taking out terrorists, Nash---give them time. Have a nice weekend.

Hope you have great weekend as well Steeler Fan! :o)

Bravo, Nashville!!!!

Nashville--I am ALSO thrilled that Obama signed off on targeting an American Radical Islamist POS for assassination. Godd riddance. Although there was less evidence to kill this guy than there was with Troy Davis, I think it's great. I have been consistent in my cheering for the slaughter of Islamofacists through TWO administrations. The same cannot be said for YOU PEOPLE. You know damn well that, if Bush were in office now and this happened, you and the other libs here would be calling him a war criminal. Care to spin your hypocrisy?

Dear Damage:

You don't know me. Let's keep it that way.

Damage123

The same cannot be said for YOU PEOPLE. You know damn well that, if Bush were in office now and this happened, you and the other libs here would be calling him a war criminal. Care to spin your hypocrisy?

Are you trying to win a prize for bad fiction? There were terrorists killed during Bush's term in office. I don't remember hearing anyone protesting the killing of several super-bad Al Qaeda thugs in Iraq. What people were angry about was Bush giving Al Qaeda a foothold in Iraq in the first place that they didn't have until Bush launched his disastrous war on a false pretext.

Damage, that comment doesn't even make sense. You speak out of both sides of your mouth. Now you're defending terrorists? How many thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens died because Bush/Cheney started an unncessary war? Were the 9/11 victims given a trial by Al Qaeda? You can't compare the War on Terror to the American criminal justice system. It's conservatives who demand they be called "terrorists", declared liberals unpatriotic for not wanting to fight a war in Iraq and now it is conservatives defending a traitor to the USA and an Al Qaeda operative because they want to score points against President Obama. What complete hypocrisy. You can't have it both ways, Damage. We either fight the War on Terror or we come home and do nothing more. I'd prefer we come home but according to conservatives that would mean I am unpatriot and a terrorist sympathizer.

Sounds as if the Inspector General has egg-mcmuffin on his face. $16 per person for food and drink at breakfast. You'd think these characters would get their stuff straight before running to the press.

The cost is not that outrageous, especially if it was delivered. Bill O has already gone off the rails over it, though, so you know damn good and well HE won't retract it. His masses are so amped up and outraged FOR him,...well, he couldn't talk them off the ledge if he meant well and wanted to do so; and we all know he doesn't mean well.

"Since our report was issued, the Capital Hilton has stated that other food and beverage items, such as coffee, tea, and fruit, were included in the charged amount," the statement said."

I agree with Clara. I doubt that Fox will report that the "Muffingate" story turned out to be malarkey. If they do, they'll spend about a milllisecond on it before turning to the next manufactured "scandal."

The coffee and tea were reported at $8 a cup. Has that changed as well?? What about the $600,000 for planning the conferences?? Was that accurate?? Seems to me that if you have a conference in 2009 and it works, you just do the same damned thing in 2010. Save a copy of the seating chart and the "refreshments", and just repeat. No more planning needed.

Asked and answered, Edward. Move on, this one was incorrectly reported.

Clara KCMO says the cost wasn't that outrageous. So Clara is just a little outrageous just a little O.K.??

How much is too much??

And what about that planning consultants charge?? $600,000 for two years. To plan a meeting??

They need to re-mname Uncle Sam. Call him Uncle Sap.

Thank you, Mr. President for keeping us safe.

Well said, Joe Madden, especially considering it is the conservatives who yelp everytime President Obama and the DOJ tried to put terrorists on trial in the USA.

I'm not as down on Ron Paul as some people are. At least he's been consistent. He criticized Bush on civil liberties as much as Obama. I think it's healthy that someone is pointing out the gravity of killing American citizens abroad, although I think there's a big difference in going after political dissidents and terrorists.

Joe,

The fly in the ointment is the fact that this particular "terrorist" was an American citizen. This means our government targeted and killed an American citizen without due process of law. That is the point that Ron Paul is making. All of us have certain rights that are guaranteed to us, as citizens. The proper way to handle this would have been to properly arrest him, ship him back here for his right of a trial by a jury of his peers, and if possible, convict and sentence him. That is our system. Not always perfect, but that is our system.

I agree. Mr. Cain is a great man.

Jeez, Leona, is that the best you can do? The government didn't bail out unions, it prevented the loss of thousands of jobs by bailing out the auto industry which includes non-union workers, too; saved the jobs of many union and nonunion auto industry suppliers, car dealership workers plus Wall Street fat cats who are not members of unions. It's what Government should do when the economy is in total meltdown. Herbert Hoover did nothing and his recession turned into a Great Depression.

Jody,

Unions and only unions. The money was given out to them and hundreds of dealerships across the country had to close, to pay for the unions.

MRWSR, you really do believe everything told to you by the right, don't you? The companies got the money, not the unions. The unions made sacrifices by accepting cuts in both pay and benefits--that's fact. Some dealerships closed but most remained in business which means that many more jobs were saved than were lost.

Wallstreet journal, GM, and Chrysler all showed dealer closing numbers. Just in my area alone was over 13 dealer ships. The unions got the money. Either prove it with facts or shut up and keep living of the tax payers. Tire of you and your workers unite attitude.

Let's not forget Rick Wagonner's super golden parachute, either.

Jody, these yahooz wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ass. They'd rather let the lies lick them from stem to stern,...

STTS

Union jobs were the only ones saved. Facotry and dealerships closed down all over our country, factories only in right to work states. What lie's am I telling?

YEAH but a lot of nut cases love him because he would leagalise illegal drugs and prostitution

His spokeswoman says he’s promoting his book and won’t be back on the campaign trail until mid-October, although he will be speaking tomorrow to the National Federation of GOP Women tomorrow in Kansas City.

Now we see, Mr. Cain, why you threw your hat in the ring. It's the Me thing not the We thing. Turns out it was all about promoting your book.

Wow. That’s not the sign of a serious presidential candidate.

You got that right. Stole a page right out of the Newtster's playbook. How much money do you need away?

Lawrence O'Donnell has dedicated quite a bit of time to covering the police brutality ascpect of the protests. I have heard, but have not been able to confirm, that there is a media/social-media blackout of sorts surrounding the actual protests.

Siara

Let's be honest.....did you even watch NBC or MSNBC this morning?.....Thought so!