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Subscribe to RSSThe 12 members of the deficit supercommittee met again yesterday for more than six hours to discuss a way forward in achieving the $1.5 trillion in cuts required by the Budget Control Act in an effort to raise the nation’s debt ceiling. The members don't plan another full meeting until early next week.
Aides say that the meeting discussed non-health mandatory proposals, and members were treated to a presentation on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. The prior day’s meeting focused on tax reform, among other things.
And while committee members have met behind closed doors five times (and had three open hearings), not a single committee member has even hinted at what the discussions have produced, only using vague adjectives such as "constructive," "positive," and "productive," while not at all describing what "progress" they are actually making.
"No, I won't [be answering questions], but I thank you for asking," Sen. John Kyl (R-AZ) told reporters after yesterday’s meeting. "Again, I think you all know the rules. If you want to talk to somebody talk to our two co-chairmen, thanks."
But speaking with supercommittee co-chairs Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) and Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) has brought no substantive details for public consumption. After a number of the closed-door meetings and open hearings, both Murray and Hensarling have come out with short, on-camera, statements saying the committee is making progress, but taking no questions.
Yesterday, Murray failed again to shed light on what "progress" was achieved during the meeting. "It went very good, very productive day," Murray told reporters, as she scurried away from the meeting. "I am not going to discuss any of the details. We had a really good day, though."
When asked specifically what members mean by the mantra "making progress," committee member Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH) tried to explain without actually explaining.
"Well, there's a lot of complicated issues, so progress is measured in different ways," he said. "But one would be simply getting through the material and, you know, getting the same level of knowledge across all members."
Asked if he felt the group would make the Nov. 23rd deadline, Portman contemplated his response and looked to the ground before simply saying, "We're making progress."
Sen. John Kerry (R-MA) took time to tell reporters that the committee is "getting into the real meat of things," but decided not to elaborate, explaining, "I'm not going to discuss the actual negotiations."
Asked if he thought the committee was living up to the promise of being transparent, Kerry responded, "We're living up to the commitment of getting the job done to the American people."
According the rules agreed upon by the committee last month, the committee shall "provide audio and video coverage of each hearing or meeting for the transaction of business in a manner that allows the public to easily listen to and view the proceedings."
Aides say that these "meetings" are actually not meetings at all, but "discussions," and don't fall under those rules.
It's understandable that members of the supercommittee are mum on details regarding their negotiations, as debating such contentious issues as entitlement cuts and revenue raises in public would make their job in the meeting room harder. But Congress does not usually lend itself to such a tight-lipped operation.
Often ideas are leaked to members and staffs to gauge interest within Congress, or if one side particularly disagrees with a stance the other side is taking. Both the House and Senate will have to vote on whatever the committee decides to put out, so building a plan that can muster votes on both sides is key.
What's unclear is whether the supercommittee is anywhere close to the point where they even have a plan to share with their members or if they’re actually making any real “progress.”
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I wouldn't expect anything less...
Progress is a dirty word for the tea baggers masquerading as the GNOP these days!
Stall - obstruct & spin is the only thing they have left in the Rove playbook!
We can expect nothing but total gridlock in DC for the next 13 months...
You heard it here first!
They want they're country BACK & I want MY country forward!
We desperatley need better leadership in the White House. Obama's poor leadership is leading this country down the wrong path. If a better candidtae comes into the race and it appears Obama will not be re-elected you will see conumer confidence rise, business confidence rise and our status in the world once again rise. Many previous first time voters now realize thier vote was wasted......
A follow-up thought on Chris Christie. It could very well be that his personal physician has advised him not to run. Sometimes pundits and journalists miss the obvious.
Aw, look at Feisty, pretending that Obama and Reid are out for progress.
Obama do anything since his fancy speech to get jobs bill passes? Meet with Pelosi, Reid, Boehner, anyone. Well sure he has done nothing but meet people, but donors are not going to get his beloved bill passes, or even introduced so all those dem senators can vote it down.
And hey libbies, all that chatter about the Buffett tax, yet now?
Why do your leaders keep setting you up for bitter disappointment?
You got to wonder - these last couple of months have been so bad for Obama, maybe he'll keep a low profile?
God I hope not.
This committee was doomed to be ineffective from the start. UAW, I agree there has been a leadership vacuum. Mr. Obama has been showing some fire recently, but it may be too little too late. Feisty, gridlock indeed.
The white house leadership is not the problem. It is the republicans that feel the need to obstruct, no compromise anymore. Worse of all, the republicans don't even listen to the people. The republicans have signed a pledge with Norquist to never raise taxes and don't care what the public thinks.
The Norquist plan is to kill America by denying any new revenue. Starve the beast. Republicans don't care that the people don't want to kill America. There pledge is to Norquist not to the people and the republicans really don't care how much the people suffer.
Instead of calling them job creators, republicans need to tell the truth that they are campaign donors. It is their campaign donations they are protecting not jobs.
I had a thought last night, in our history the rich have paid as much as 90% in taxes, but in those days it was not class warfare. It was being patriotic and supporting your country. Today's republican is so stingy they are whining over paying the same rate as the workers. Seems the republicans have no patriotism anymore.
AF, I think what people are really starting to realize is more Democrats should have stood up and said "NO" to some of these ridiculous policies Obama signed into law. It's not uncommon for Presidents to have to work with a divided congress. Reagan, Bush, Clinton all did. It's obvious coming into the office of president with olny a .3 term as a senator was not enough expereince to do the job. Obama's lack of good judgement needs to go. Let's come together under a new leader and get this country back on track.....
Herman Cain in 2012. . .
Yo - AF I don't suppose you care to comment on the fact that the government wastes 1/2 of every dollar?
Is it unreasonable to ask that it corrects that little problem before asking for more money?
And you can set tax rates at whatever you want, the bottom line is historical intake by the government has always been consistent.
Too bad spending has not been.
Another great liberal demonstration of law breaking
I love how Feisty takes an article on progress in a bi-partisan debt reduction committee as an opportunity to attack the opposing party. I've been lurking in the comments section for a while, and the blind, senseless, scathing attacks against the opposition are exactly what's wrong with this country.
Feisty, take off your bleeding heart liberal hat once in a while and try to act like a reasonable human being. Your constant assault of the opposition only reveals only reveals your immaturity and emboldens your opponents.
It seems like with every political article I read, you're the first down in the comments to blindly attack any view that doesn't align with your own, give it a rest. I guess it's true that the smallest dogs always bark the loudest, however the silent majority will continue to voice their opinion where it counts.
UAW, you're mischaracterizing how Democrats should have acted. Instead of saying "No" as you suggest, which by the way is the typical Republican response to any Democratic proposal, Democrats should have shoved more progressive policies down the throats of Republicans. With a supermajority, there should have been no attempt at compromise considering Republicans had no intention of compromising on anything in the first place. Instead, we got watered-down progressive legislation that just fell short. Some day democrats will get a backbone.
Sonman, interesting that you didn't bring up the police attacking peaceful liberal demonstrators protesting wall street.
That was just another great conservative demonstration of killing your rights to free speech.
Obama and the Democrats keep setting up their base voters, and then they just knock them down. It's not about what Obama does, it's about what he says he will do (but never does). The "Buffett Rule"? Why, that's a tax, a tax on people Liberals hate, so that's okay. But what really is the "Buffett Rule", and who does it really affect? Those details don't matter to the Libs, but they are still all for it!
"Jobs bill"? Why Obama says it's a "Jobs Bill", so it must be a "Jobs Bill". Of course the Libs have to neglect the fact the previous "Jobs Bills" that Obama and the Democrats put out have done nothing to produce jobs. But the mere fact that Obama shouts out that this is a "Jobs Bill" is good enough for the Liberals, no matter that "Jobs Bill II" looks a lot like the failed "Jobs Bill I". Again, those details don't matter to the Libs, but gosh once again, they are all for it!
And when these "Jobs Bills" and "Buffett Rules" fail, as they most certainly will, the Libs are ready for that too. "It's the Republicans fault!!" they'll shout, the box in their room tuned to MSNBC told them so, so it must be true.
Liberals. So naive. So predictable.
All these comments, and not a one on the idea of the supercommittee actually keeping confidential negotiations confidential. Instead, a lot of hot air and political rhetoric is spun. The viners here are about as cogent as the talking heads, only with smaller soapboxes.
And of course, the final product is subject only to an up/down vote, with draconian cuts lurking if the vote does not pass. I can only imagine how the commentators above will react to whatever gets reported out.
Unlike Feisty, I will not criticize, complain, or blame- maybe that's why nothing is getting done by congress. Many will continue doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Instead, I will pray that they will have constructive conversation, knowing that tough decisions have to be made if we plan to prevent a future disaster down the road. That nothing can be done all at once, but specific measures to deal with our spending exceeding our govt revenue.
Tax the rich and the 41% that do not pay anything, end deductions and loopholes for companies and individuals.
Here we go again.
The Republicans goal is not go govern -- their only goal is to remove "that man" from the white house.
So, their calculus has nothing to do with what is right for the country. Their policy is completely driven by their desire to win the white house.
Shame on the Republicans!
Put country first. Their is plenty of room for politics within the context of improving the country.
Shame, shame shame on the Tea Party!
The GOP/TP representatives are mere puppets. Grover had their hands tied to their backs and that's why there will never be any clear progress.......we need no rocket science to know this.
Oh, so it's Grover now, eh?
Not Rove, the Kocks, Walker, or NOjo?
Got news for yo Pen - taxes are bad, the government wastes money.
I know that sucks for Team Blue, but facts is facts.
tesla, fiesty doesn't have common sense, she is obediant only to obama because he has also shown a lack of common sense in his approach to leadership. Both should read carnegies book "How to win friends and influence people". If they don't want to further their horizons, what can they do but whine and denigrate?
How do you negotiate in good faith with a party that is on record as having said: Their ONLY objective is to make President Obama a one term President?
Republican 2012 -- Keeping millions out of work to put ONE man out of a job!
And, Norquist has stated that he 'wants to drown the government in the bathtub'.
Anyone on the super committee sign the Norquist 'pledge'?
Something tells me it will be the 11th hour before we hear anything out of that committee.
All of the house Repubs on the committee have signed the Norquist pledge.
That is so ugly.
SPANKY
if you don't raise taxes (revenue) that means you keep cutting workers, public services, programs which all amounts to reduction in demand for goods and services hence, loss of jobs. Doesn't this mean you'll have more dependants on Government? Also, remember that the population will not stop growing. How do you meet these demands? What GOP/TP is trying to create is a state with destitutes and the rich.
Forget it PEN- Spank's a big 'bidnizz' man. He don't know from 'demand', though. Still not sure why. Maybe it's because he only reads the 'tax code'.
Or Volt brochures.
The problem we have today is our current tax code and over regulation of business. If you want to increase revenue, fix these problems and start getting people back to work. Herman Cain has the best plan to address the tax code and revenue issues, we need a plan like his and to strip down the EPA and get companies back and expanding in the USA.
Typical double speak by the lackeys of these lying SOB's we need to unelect
The supercommittee will fail just like the administration is failing. How do expect any democrat on the committee to actually cut anything when they voted against disaster funds because they would have to cut green job funds? The progressive/liberal agenda has become as big a joke as fiesty.
LEAN FORWARD libs. All the way to falling on your faces. This country needs you gone.
1/20/2013 - the end of an error
THe real problem is this...we voters elected, I thought , 500+ representatives to congress, both houses,, to do this job and yet...they have inturn placed this task in the hands of 12 members. Since this is what our elected have done...what do we then need the other 500 for ? Evidently, they are not capable of doing what they were elected to do...and consider they are being paid with our tax money to the tune of 170K each. I myself , do not like the idea of a small group of politicans, who accept funds from lobbyist...having the final say in this matter or any other matter. Of course,, they ALL accept funding from whoever they can get the most from and in turn hand out nice favors to each one in one form or the other.
Hard to make clear progress when you don't have a clear mission.
Which is, of course, just the way they drew it up.
As George Bush said, "fool me once ...."
Spanky, what has Cantor been doing for progress? Boehner? McConnell?
Political parties did not exist in 1789. Washington despised the idea of political associations, formed in such a way as to pit one group of citizens against another. In his farewell speech in 1796 he said:
Why is it that the GOP is obstructionist and dont want to compromise if they dont agree to go along with democratic proposals but the democrats are not when they refuse to go along with GOP proposals. Come on show me where the democrats have compromised on tort reform, education reform, health care, government spending (even on the priorites) and Entitlement Reform. Why arent you calling the democrats obstructionists for failing to provide even the slightest compromise on these key issues?
Kirk
In the current progressive/liberal world it is their way or no way. That is why they are going to be voted out in the next election. All of the moderate democrats and conservative republicans just need to keep reminding Americans of the actions of Congress from 2007 until 2010. If they thought 2010 was bad just wait until 2012. And if you think they have been nasty since the last election just wait to see how nasty they get. It will be fun to watch all their heads explode.
56 people ( which does not connote a DEMOCRACY, by the way) got together to set a course and the direction for this country. It worked then however, that was 200+ years in the past.
With modern communication enabling everyone, in this Nation to see what's going on, It's even less Democratic for 12 people to steer the ship now!
Wake Up Americans, we are being "bamboozled"
Pen, that might have been one of the worst observations I have ever seen. You think that creating demand via government jobs cures an economy? Do you think its a zero sum game? When you take money out of the system from someone else's pocket you are decreasing demand and/or investment capital giving it to a government that never spends it as efficiently has the capital markets do. You can find extreme examples or find government services that are crucial and necessary for the nation but as a general matter, you really think taking money from people who have already proven they are successful and turning around and filtering it through the government spending machine is not a economic policy you will find any economist recommending unless they believe in socialism. In addition, you also totally ignore the fact that the government is growing its spending far faster than the rate of inflation which then takes more money out of the private markets. All we are doing is reducing the future standard of living for the benefit of keeping our current standard the same--in the aggregate.
Opus Dei and The Skull & Crossbones Society have more transparency than this "Newly Formed Congressional Government" of 12.
I thought "Transparency" or the "LACK THERE OF" was the Mantra for those new Congress people.
What Happened? They now sign outside pledges with Norquist to serve him and it's screw the people who elected and the Constitution Oath they swore to.
No Trust in these Miscreants Period. Who can trust these Liars? The Lexicon of the English Language needs to add another definition for Liar......GOP!
Is it fair to assume yet that the super committees work will culminate in another "cross-eyed opossum" of a bill that will not be accepted in an up-or-down vote by both houses of Congress and, therefore, the Trigger will take precedence?
Two additional 6 week 'stop gap temporary spending bills' will need to be passed between now and around Christmas, "The 2011 Christmas of the Trigger".
Wilberta who are we being bamboozled by? Isnt the freedom of choice what helped make this country great? So when we have a federal government that says we dont want consequences for the behaviorial choices people make in life such as choose to illegally enter this country, choice of job or professional path in determining monetary success, choice of borrowing money to finance our lifestyle whether it be credit card debt or mortgage, having a child whether being a teenager or not, taking drugs but instead we want to punish those who worked hard and took personal responsibility and were successful by taking at least half their money because they dont deserve it. I agree we are getting bamboozled and sold a bill of goods by this administration that is antithetical to the american way of life
If America defines itself by what Washington does, we are a lost cause. So many comments reflect a hope that Washington is the answer... Scary. Washington is the cause of our economic issues. We need to rely on ourselves. Be as productive as we each can be every day. That has never meant we all deserve a multi-million dollar job handed to us... but some how today everyone expects everything to be handed to them and Washington keeps feeding that BS to the masses. The only way out is to work our way out as a country build of strong individuals...not a bunch of lemmings following the great orators of the day.
Tesla Coil - if you have truly been lurking in the background you would have seen that MANY people here have posted mean-spirited posts. On both sides.
But like Fiesty - I too am angry on the behavior of most of our politicians. And I too still consider President Obama a far better choice than what the Republicans are introducing to us.
Compromise - is a dirty word now. Just say NO is the mantra of the Republican party. Their only goal is to make our President a one term president and to fail. Sounds like they really do care - right?
If you don't like someone posts - don't read them.
Elise, of course its the goal of the republican party to make Obama a one term president as it would be the goal of democrats to make any GOP president a one term president. Why would the republicans say yes to any of the stated positions of Obama in which they fundamentally believe are wrong and will make the economy worse? What if the GOP is right? Obama has had so much success to date on all of his intiatives and they have or to date have all failed. So why would they compromise and do more of the same thing? Have the democrats compromised on out of control government spending? They couldnt even compromise on the FEMA bill and find $1.5 billion of spending cuts in a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit. Does that sound the democrats are compromising? Where is entitlement reform, tort reform, the so call government waste initiative the Obama promised? I give him credit for finally dipping his toe in the water on education reform which the GOP has been pushing forever. But the GOP really do care about the standard of living for ourselves, kids and grandkids which is why saying no to Obama's destructive policies and making him a one term president is more important than ever.
Wilberta,
Transparency in Government was a pledge made by Obama that he has not lived up to. One of many.
This "supercommittee" is unamerican and a joke. Why do we elect 535 congressmen if 12 have the power to determine funding for just about everything? Why are these meetings secret? Why aren't all the spending measures being debated in open congress (with the exception of matters of national security). Isn't it unfair to the voters in states that don't have representation on the supercommittee to not have their issues presented?
Kirk - thanks for my daily laugh!
Elise, not sure what was funny? Can you elaborate and explain which one of my points was incorrect?
How can we begin to negotiate with a party that consistently puts down the other? One that resorts to name calling and berating? One that says no constantly to the other side without even trying to negotiate. A party that blindly follows its leader over the cliff...not bothering to look ahead and recognize the danger.
Many people on here will read the above paragraph and think I'm putting down the right again, but in this case I am calling out the Democrats. Like it or not, the Tea Party is here to stay. They have done what the left will never have the courage to do. They didnt like the direction their party was going, so they created a new one. While you were busy laughing at them, they were busy winning Congressional seats. While you call them names, they are trying to control the outrageous spending in Washington. While you say what rotten people they are, they continue to gain support.
I suggest if you really dislike what they stand for, do something about it. Start a 'Progressive Party', or whatever you want to call it. Let your Democratic Base know how serious you are. But the tea-bagger comments show the true ignorance of your posts....along with the blind allegiance to ANYONE with a (D) following his/her name.
Govt Issue--I wish I was articulate as you. Wonderful post and spot on.
Joe 755363
I agree with you.
However, Obama does not Obviously run Congress they are two separate Branches of our Government.
I was pointing out HOW transparency only seems to have a part of the POTUS agenda. Congress could apparently care less.
Hence this 12 member committee which should never have been created period!......and no is crying foul. Not the Media, nor the Citizens and even the POTUS is being mum on the subject!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
And Obama says- BEND OVER!
The whole super-committee thing is a joke anyway. Future congressional action on a budget is not dictated by what this congress does. Any future congress can decide to overturn any rules this congress puts in place. Remember "pay-go," meant to be sure that any increases in one area are offset by cuts elswhere, the overall effect bein that government would not grow ? Lasted about 30 seconds into the next Congress.
dirp, while I usually want 100% transparency in our government, I can actually agree with this super committee in this case. As divisive as our congress is on both sides of the aisle, I see no reason in this case not to give both sides some political cover. I truly think that without their bases screaming in their ears, and without TV cameras looking for a sound bite, it actually gives them a chance to do something together.
My whole point is that the entire process is political theatre meant to get us through the end of next year. The Republican Party realizes that it made a big mistake by embracing the Tea Party. They had to make this deal to placate them, or shut the government down entirely for the next year. The only way they will be able to rid themselves of that mistake is by losing the next election.
Since none of the Tea Party candidates (Bachman, Santorum, Perry) should be able to win the general election, nominating one of them and having them lose to President Obama would be a long term win for the party. IF (**heaven forbid**) Rick Perry should end up winning the Presidency, hopefully he will, like George W. Bush, choose an intelligent Vice President who will actually run the government. Dick Cheney may be evil, but he is very smart.
That may be the strategy the GOP is using this time around, have a Tea Party idiot as Presidentential nominee. If he loses, blame the Tea Party and get rid of it. If he wins, be sure to have someone good to actually govern. Win-win.
Kirk
Those freedoms and choices of the 2% running the show is why everybody else is unhappy.
Do you have everything you want and need in this life? Are you happy with your status quo?
Do you get to meet and greet and talk to your representatives when ever you have an inkling?
If everything is Honky Dorie for you then, obviously I am not including you in the S**thole form of Government that is not serving the rest of THE PEOPLE!
Excuse me but the way were is why we are i n the shape we are in now. The legacies that seems so appealing then has Frot us!
Give me a break, get off your butt and make different choices if you dont like the ones you made so far. Name me a country anywhere in the world in which you have greater access or voice than the US? Name me a country in which they even have town hall meetings in which active constituents got to voice their concerns. How can you even say that when a movement called the Tea Party went across this great country and got their voices heard with a brand new political party and representatives elected everywhere. You may disagree with them 100% but you cant say they were successful and effective. Where else do you have the ability to get off your butt and create your own progressive movement if you can find enough people to work together and get your own voice heard and representatives elected. Just because you would prefer to have someone else do it for you doesnt mean the freedom of choice isnt there. Actually people are unhappy because the current administration is failing in its promises to the people and they want someone else to come in and fix the problems they have made worse.
Cain vs. "Unable" 2012 (Dennis Miller)
Supercomitee? Progress? Good luck with that, you will just have "micro-gridlock."
It would be a nice start if the "super" committee could stop all of the President's cronie capitalism- that would save billions. Take today's news:
Nancy Pelosi's bro-inlaw just got $737 million in DOE money for his solar company- SolarReserve. It also turns out that Solyndra's Steve Mitchell, just dirtied with that company's bankruptcy, is also tied to this company.
In similar news, the President is about to have a fundraiser in Mo. Seems that the person holding the function for him, Tom Carnahan, son of the Governor, Secretary of State(brother), and US Senator(mom). just received a $107 million tax credit from the Treasury Department for his Wind Capital's Lost Creek Farm facility. No connection there.
The government is just channeling our taxpayer dollars to their friends and family and all we US citizens get is the bill. This is corruption at it's best folks.
YOu all see the newest reports on Gin Runner.
Oh my gosh.
You got the DEA actually running drugs into Mexico. You got the ATF actually running guns into Mexico.
Now this is a tad surprsing sice ATF is supposed to stop gun flow and the DEA is supposed to stop drugs.
Yep, you libbies are spot on - the government is super good at running things.
Oh and there was this shiny list yesterday about all Obama's accomplishments, many of which were about ethics.
Except now Energy and Justice are stone walling document, witness and other requests.
Your lists are just precious. Too bad it's all a giant load.
I'm not really surprised. Republicans are owned by corporations, Democrats are owned by unions. Goodbye middle class, it was nice knowing you.
Some Republicans own corporations. Some Democrats own corporations. More Democrats than Republicans own corporations.
Corporations influence perhaps but do not own Republicans and Democrats.
Corporations do, however, legally support their favorite candidates for office with "campaign contributions" and they do legally "lobby" their favorite elected officials in government at all levels. At the Federal level, so-called Democratic "campaign contributions" and "lobby" far surpasses Republican "campaign contributions" and "lobby".
Corporations owned by Democrats have hired more employees in China than Corporations owned by Republicans.
Some Republicans earn in excess of $1 Million a year. Some Democrats earn in excess of $1 Million a year. More Democrats than Republicans earn in excess of $1 Million a year.
Some Republicans earning in excess of $1 Million a year pay taxes at a tax rate lower than the tax rate their secretaries pay. Some Democrats earning in excess of $1 Million a year pay taxes at a tax rate lower than the tax rate their secretaries pay. More Democrats than Republicans pay taxes at a rate lower than their secretaries pay.
I would like to find one instance in which someone earning over a million pays less tax than their secretary. Just one. I dont believe that line for a second. Of course I guess its possible that some person making over a million in cap gains, interest or dividends is paying a secretary more than $200 thousand a year and then I dont really think that counts.
Kirk, they are not saying someone earning over a million pays a less amount than their secretary, they are saying the millionare pays 15% on their earnings while the secretary is paying 30% or 35% of their earnings in taxes. Not fair.
Kirk, they are referring to the percentage of income. So, let's say a secretary making $50K and paying $12.5K in taxes (25% effective tax rate) in being taxed at a higher rate than her boss who makes $200K and pays $40K in taxes (20% effective tax rate). Granted, this is the amount after all deductions since the standard tax rates always increase with each higher tax bracket. If you view just the dollar values, then it confirms that the people in the top 20% pay around 80% of all collected income tax revenue.
Kow, your numbers are pure BS. The person making 50K would have a standard deduction of $5,700 (if not itemizing). That would make their income $44,300. The first $8,375 is taxed at 10%. Then remainder of the income would be taxed at 15%.
Show me how many people making $50,000 per year don't itemize their deductions and bring their income down even more.
Yes, people making $200,000 per year have deductions, but so do those making $50,000 per year. It is an anomaly that those like the Warren Hypocrite Buffet actually pay an effective tax rate less than someone making 25% or less of their income.
The issue with Buffet and those that promote the "Buffet Rule" are being disingenuous in their rhetoric. Warren Hypocrite Buffet could easily pay himself a large salary and thus pay taxes on that salary. Instead, more than likely to avoid paying income taxes, he pays himself is stock and dividends.
Bookem: that's the point. Why should capital gains, dividends, interest, be taxed differently than ordinary income ?
Why should Wall Street hedge fund managers be able to turn what they earn into capital gains ?
That is the problem with the tax code.
Bookem' - I was using those numbers as an example. I wasn't implying that the somebody making $50K is paying $12.5K in taxes. As for who makes $50K and doesn't itemize ..... you'd actually be very surprised at how many don't, but that's irrelevant. In any case, I agree with what you are saying. It's really only when the income is from investments like capital gains that skews the numbers.
Ed - your example is still wrong. People who hit the 35% rate do not pay that on all of their income. They only pay that rate on the income over the rate at which that kicks in.
This is why no one can have a conversation anymore. People take these sound bites, have no idea what they mean, and repeat them like they are experts. I would add the detail explaining the progressive tax rates but it doesn't matter with these ding dongs.
What a load of idiocy.
These super committees will not protect Congressmen and Senators in upcoming elections. If they cut Social Security, Disability, Medicare, Medicaid or change the laws for each, then they will all be voted out of office. If they take a vote and say oh yes, the procedure passed by 7 to 5 but we are not telling you how each member voted, we will then vote Everyone of the super committee out of office no matter how they voted.
One thing is for sure...to any Senator or Representative that Cuts or changes the laws for Social Security, Disability, Medicare and Medicaid, you too will be voted out of office, and super committees will not protect you. I believe I said earlier, in another post, that the voters are fully capable of voting whole committees out of office and we will too if you Cut or Change Social Security etc.
They are still auctioning their services off to the highest bidder.
Don't worry I am sure these wealthy members of the political class with their taxpayer funded health and retirement benefits will come out with a solution that will devastate the middle class.
Even the europeansa are laughing at this failure of a president.
sonman - you didn't expect this?
Obama ignored his own debt commision.
Obama ignored his own business commisionj leaders advice.
Obama ignored S&P's warning on a downgrade.
Obama screwed the pooch big time on healthcare when he ignored the advice given to him by rahm emmanual.
Obama ignored the 2010 midterm elections
Obama ignores American economic growth by choosing to both raise taxes and eliminate deductions on both the wealthy and corporations.
Obama ignores the potus main job of governance in favor of campaigning for re-election.
Obama ignors that it is almost oct 1 and we still have no passed FY2012 budget
Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity can't.
American, it's too tiring trying to educate some on how our government works, but let me just point out that Obama does not pass budgets. Congress passes budgets. I could go point by point on your rant, but what's the point?
Obama needs to submit a budget before it can be passed.
...and he submitted a 2012 budget in February.
jim - thanks, Iwill go look it up and check it out.
Correct, jimsepa, the administration did present a budget in February that was unanimously voted down in the senate 97 against - 0 for.
All they will be able to do is to "Agree to disagree" - Another kick the can political maneuver hoping the economy will improve enough so they will not have to cut spending, but its ok to raise taxes.
The libbies enjoy making fun of Christie's weight yet ignore the fact that our President, a dead ringer for Alfred E Newman continues to be an ineffective leader... he continues to avoid taking any measures to reduce government spending. He's so deep into the Union's pockets he'd sacrifice the private sector to keep the union's leadership happy.
I see that Gov Christie slammed Obama for being a "bystander in the Oval Office," and said the gridlock in Washington is ineffective and embarrassing to the rest of the country.
"We watch a president who once talked about the courage of his convictions, but still has yet to find the courage to lead," Christie said, "We watch a Congress at war with itself because they are unwilling to leave campaign style politics at the Capital's door."
Thank you Gov. Christie for saying what the country wants to hear!
lol, he does look like Alfred E Newman... one of my favorite comic book characters when I was a kid.
I agree with Christie's comments completely and also sonmanvb's comments (#5)! The polls show that black support for the president has dropped from a high of 82% a few months ago to 48% in a recent Harris poll. Hispanics are leaving him in droves.... as are white independents! This is a train wreck waiting to happen. It seems only a few hard core libbies at this site are all he has left!
Wasn't Alfred E Newman's slogan "WHAT ME WORRY". That too describes our president's laid back style, doesn't it?
It works for a neighborhood organizer, but definitely not for a President!
on point to all of you. My favoritr was generally "spy vs spy". But I still remember the satire that the magazine did on comparing the roman empire to the US. When we were lean and hungry we prospered. When we became fat and lazy, attila showed up.
Jim silver - he also slammed obama for singling out the wealthy and denigrating them. Seems that obama proclaims the "American Dream" as desirable, yet slams it as being not worthy enough for the younger generation to pursue because he wants to tax, tax and tax the innovators to death.
The so called "Super Committee" and progress-oh really? Obstructionism is very clear.... The very first day they met and Sen.Kyl (R. Ariz) threatens to walk out. Who'd a thunk it?
snip
A Republican senator threatened to walk out on the special deficit-reduction supercommittee if other members push for new cuts in defense spending.
http://bilweeler.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/11/7713669-let-the-hostage-taking-beginkyl-threatens-super-committee-walk-out
Those cuts, starting in 2013, would be in addition to the $350 billion, 10-year reduction already dictated by the debt-limit bill approved by Congress and signed into law by President Obama this month.
How will the super committee ever meet its spending reduction goals when Reid and the Dems preferred blocking help for poor homeless flood victims rather than scaling back green spending?
They have their priorities...Al Gore.
How is this blog even relavent? Blindly defening the POS preteder in chief with every liberal democratic talking point there is, bashing any idea or person that has an opposing idea. Must be nice to sit around the computer every morning with your cup of coffee, waiting to pounce on anyone with ideals other than yours, must be nice to be the only ones who are right.
I had a thought last night, in our history the rich have paid as much as 90% in taxes, but in those days it was not class warfare. It was being patriotic and supporting your country. Today's republican is so stingy they are whining over paying the same rate as the workers. Seems the republicans have no patriotism anymore.
oh shut up.
You've lost the argument when the only one you can make is "you're not patriotic!!!!"
Another fail from a whining liberal who thinks they're entitled to so someone else's money.
And no, I'm not rich - not even close. Oblowshat's tax the rich nonsense won't even come close to affecting me - directly.
What you beggers and pleaders don't get is that taxes are like $h!t, they roll downhill.
So yes, our measley little paychecks won't get taxed more - but every damn other thing especially energy will.
But hey, who cares!!!! The rich really got it stuc to them! Imbeciles.
The rich use to pay 90%. No one claimed class warfare or even that they were suffering. In those days it was called supporting your country and patriotism. Too bad only liberals still care about our country.
The rich have had nothing stuck to them. Out of all the sacrifices made by everyone the rich have not even sacrificed their tax cuts.
Republicans forgot what patriotism is when they sign a pledge with Norquist to kill America.
Let's get someone in the White House that knows how to start a business, run it successully, and turn a profit. Someone that doesn't need closed meetings of supercommittees to get things done. Enough with backroom deals. Herman Cain 2012!
Hate to say it but our system is truly very different from running a business. The notion that this will translate to a successful presidency is absurd. First of all, you need someone who a majority of the people will follow and who Democrat, Republican and Independent Congressmen and women will work with to move the country forward. Then you have to have them agree on what it takes to move the country forward.... enter talking points here... and you see, we are right back to Square One.
If we are going to make terrible investments in say, Solyndra, then yes we need someone with some business background in office. If we are going to bailout GM and banks then we need someone with a business background. Obama has done nothing but make our economic recovery worse. We could actually be in a recovery mode with jobs increasing monthly with the right President in office.
If the supercommittee members are political appointees and partisan cronies (which they all are) then we're going to see no real solutions to ANY problems in the United States. The political system is broken. We need a new executive branch, legislation branch, and judicial branch. All three branches are broken, ineffective, rotten with corruption, and part of the problem. We also need a new system of checks and balances on these branches of government by the people. Do I have a solution? No. Would anybody listen to me if I did have a solution? No. Do I have all the facts and information I need to make informed decisions? No. Does anybody? No.
judging from many of the post, YOU may be describing yourself instead of the members of the super committee, you want it your way of the highway. Open mindedness is raw these days- too many believe that wisdom can be found in one party, what a joke........
Americans first - why not return to all the 1950's taxes? I am sure you will find lots of support for that, after all, fair is fair and it indeed would be a balanced approach and one of shared sacrifice as well.
Just think no medicaid, food stamps, welfare, medicare, SS disability or great society. We could even have more than enough cash to pay for equipment driven infrastructure projects and new schools.
Wow first, if we keep on spending far more than we currently take in we will still lose the above + all those nifty discretionary programs no one wants to cut. just a matter of time.
Please do go live in the past and dream about your selfish ways.
What is it with people and the blindness to the situation. If I recall the House passed an extension to keep the Government running, but the Senate said NO!. Lets see, the House is controlled by the Republicans and the Senate is run by Democrats....who is the party of No? The Democrats are just as likely to say no as the republicans. There should be a no to spending period. This isn't about who is progressive and who isn't. In fact just because you are willing to give the house away doesn't make you progressive it makes you stupid.
This infighting is caused by both parties and some say they should compromise. Compromise is what got us here in the first place. They all compromised and screwed America. In the name of saving or helping the poor and underdogs they gave this country away and there is nothing left to give. I'll be glad when the whole thing craters and the people who live off entitlements go away and get a job the best one they can find. It may not be pretty, but there is a need for ditch diggers. I worked for mine and tired of giving it away to people who don't work for squat and just live off the system.
The super committee will just screw around, both dems and repub's, until they just come to an impass and just flush the whole thing down the crapper.
The members of the Super Committee are already receiving campaign donations from corporations, I smell a pay off.
That is why in the past we governed by compromise the far left or far right did not get what they wanted. We usually compromised somewhere in the middle.
Since the tea party arrived, it has been all about my way or the highway. It appears the tea party will have no problem destroying America if they can't get what they want. Hostage taking like any terrorist is the new tea parties way of getting what they want.
This whole super committee is about balancing the budget with cuts only. The tea party does not care about America, it cares about protecting the rich. The rich who are no longer patriots and who no longer supports America.
The republican tea party don't even care that the people want to raise taxes on the richest. It seems quite clear that what the people think doesn't really concern them. They have campaign donors, I mean job creators to protect.
Personally AmericansFirst,
There will never be any more compromise. End of story. We will vote those in that stand thier ground and will not flinch. To much at stake here to compromise. You call us the party of no, but voting records suggest other wise. We are the party of enough, get out and don't come back. Liberal agenda's fail, will always fail, have never not failed.
I guess the republican policy of giving two tax cuts during war time was a conservative success. For the first time in the history of our country we were the most fiscal un-conservative and as stupid as our country had ever been. This great plan of bush and the republicans drove our country into massive debt.
Think where our country could be if we didn't have all that debt hanging over our heads. Apparently you think that is a conservative success story.
But liberals should get out and don't come back.
Republican agenda's fail, will always fail, have never not failed.
Tax cuts do not create jobs. If they did would we be rolling in jobs. The Koch brothers went from 7.5 Billion worth to 50 Billion in 10 years. Those tax cuts on 42.5 billion should have produced many many jobs. But I read they have been laying off workers.
Eight members of the committee, all Republicans, have signed pledges saying that they won't raise taxes under any circumstances, for any segment of the US taxpaying public. Their hands are tied.
Trying to balance a budget on the backs of the middle and lower classes will only lead to mass dissatisfaction and a real revolt, especially if tax increases are off the table.
Cutting programs without having tax increases as a option is stupid. The GOP has guaranteed that the committee, and any serious efforts to address our problems will fail. That's what they wanted from the very beginning. A failure of the US in order to punish Obama for getting elected.
On the backs of the middle class and poor? Obama is walking all over the middle class and poor by continuing the politicians fantasy that deficits don't matter. Think obama will ignore the $2.5 trillion in revenue over 10 years held by the 98% if he is re-elected? I think not! Follow the money, $800 billion is the smoke and mirror, the $2.5 trillion the prize!
MikeMike,
I for one, voted for my rep. and sentator to go and raise taxes. So I am proud of them for standing thier ground and not giving in. Sorry you see nothing but class warfare in this, but we have the revenue, just need to dismantle several gov. programs and do away with the department of education. Not to mention cuts across the board in every department. Smaller Government, new tax code, less EPA. That is what I voted for and hope happens, no compromise. If you win you get what you want and I will have to be ok with the result, as will you if we win.
So the answer building a better future is to get rid of the department of education? How is that going to build a better future for the average American? From my perspective as a supervisor in a manufacturing field, we need to put more money into education to better prepare students for the future. The current crop of Bush's NO child left behind graduates are sadly lacking in the basic skills to hold a manufacturing job. Investment in education and new technologies are they way to create sustainable job growth. There are painful years of slow recovery ahead,but with proper thought and investment we can emerge to a robust economy again. Bickering from the left or right does little to solve the problem and serves as a distraction so that the distribution of wealth from the bottom 98% counts toward the top 2%. If no one recognizes the problem and elects people to solve them then the status qou wins and regular americans lose.
The committee members will not make the final deal. That will be negotiated by the leaders of the House and Senate, with consultation from the White House.
Isn't a meeting any time people get together? It is a sad day in American history when a supercommittee has to be formed to get anything done in Washington. I can't wait to see what they come up with.
Wasn't it just revealed that the work that this ridiculous committee is doing is really nonbinding and that the so called across the board cuts won't even take effect until years from now? This is just more smoke and mirrors by the politicians in Congress to make it seem as though they are doing the country's business when in reality they are not doing anything.
your right in the sense that both sides are playing games. The cuts you refer will take place but I believe it is 2012 or 2013 before they result in actual cuts. So we can play the game and after the election if one side or the other "wins" they can modify the impact. Games within games
Gov Christie in his speech last night thanked his democratic opponents for putting "partisan politics" aside so a deal could be worked out. Both sides gave up something to achieve an agreement.
Whats missing in Washington DC- cooperation. The TP and Republicans have already pledged no tax increase or elimination of deductions allowed. How can you balance the budget with cuts alone- it cant be done without significant changes to defense and entitlement.
Our system of government is based upon the need of cooperation. We do not have a parlementary system where a simple majority allows you to move legislation along. You either need a super majority(67 Senators) or the minority can block, delay, or impede progress.
This is what we had from 2009 onward. It is not working, the politicians are not listening. Hopefully the 2012 election will be decisive and allow one side or the other to prevail.
According to the NC Governor we will not have elections. Of course MSNBC neglected to mention the more negative side of progressive liberals. If you cannot get your way, do away with elections. I say shut down the government for 6 months. Checks go out and safety (except TSA) stays but all welfare and other government functions stop. The only ones effected will be obama dead heads.
what are you talking about? NC Gov says no elections? Your post doesnt make sense
Actually...I think you only need 60 votes to bring cloture (i.e. stop a filibuster) on debate and move a bill to a vote. IF the bill gets vetoed, then a two-thirds majority in BOTH the Senate and House would be necessary to overcome the veto. There are also some additional two-thirds majority requirements in the Senate (impeaachment, amendements to the Constitution, etc).
Christie emphasized the word "compromise" numerous times in his speech...which may have been a factor in his decision not to run. For the most part, the Tea Party faction has cast aside the concept of compromise...which I believe will cost them the election and lead to a reorganization of the Republican Party and its policies.
Thanks stone6 but I believe McCconnel was able to still delay committee processes due to the lack of the "super majority" which caused the health bill to be dragged out so long. Also as I know you know a single Senator can block appointments and I believe there is something like 200+ positions still vacant due to TP and Republican blockage
You can google filibuster. It won't be in the Constitution, because it's a "Senate Rule," and the Constitution allows both chambers to establish their own rules.
There are basically three types of "majority." 1) simple majority - simply one more vote than the opposition; 2) a three-fifths majority, which would be 60 votes out of 100 (one-fifth equaling 20 votes, three fifths equaling 60); 3) a two-thirds majority, of 67 votes out of 100. To stop a filibuster, a three-fifths majority is required.
Democrats had 60 Senate votes during the first year (January 2009 to January 2010). When Senator Kennedy died, he was replaced temporaily with a Massachusetts Democrat, until a special election could be held). By the time the bill passed the House and worked it way through the Senate Committees, Scott Brown, Republican, won the Massachusetts special election, thus depriving Democrats of the 60 votes needed for cloture.
Although the health care bill finally passed, via reconcilation.
In retrospect, the Obama Administration probably should have delayed tackling health care reform until AFTER dealing more thoroughly with the economic problems of the country. I think that error can be blamed on various factors: Rahm Emmanuel; overconfidence; lack of experience; underrating special interest opposition, etc. By the time the bill finally passed there was something in it for vitually everyone to dislike.
On the flip-side, it has long been a plank in Democratic platforms to pass some form of universal health care. The last significant health care bill was probably Medicare/Medicaid. Clinton, of course, tried and failed.
Of course, we seem to generally agree on politics.
Aides say that these "meetings" are actually not meetings at all, but "discussions," and don't fall under those rules.
More "transparency" from the most transparent administration in history. Everybody thought that meant we would see the 'inner workings' of our Government but it actually meant their political agenda would be crystal clear...lie, cheat, steal and mislead the voters to hold power.
How Congress conducts its meetings is up to Congress, not to the President.
UAW Pleeeeeeeease,, evidently you did not get the memo from McConnel, they will not work with this President. stated Jn. 2009. just say NO
They were handed a list of wasteful and redundent programs that another committee had worked on for an entire year. Could they not start there?
I think if you allow your child to only attend school 1 day a week as this committee is doing they will not get a lot accomplished,
A new consumer protection program was started this year by Mrs Petraus with a 500 million dollar budget. I have no gripe with the program but when we can just barely keep our heads above water it did seem a bad time to start it.