Good one!

C - Crazy

P - People

A - Acting

C- Christian

CPAP Continuous positive airway pressure.

It is a therapy that is sometimes used for people with sleep apnea.

It is a therapy that is sometimes used for people with sleep apnea.

Thank you!

Thus my reference to:

Both can assist a good nights sleep...

Feisty, Jody,

The CPAC web page header says: "Freedom is never more than one generation way".

- Freedom to be exploited by corporations?

What kind of 'freedom' are they talking about?

And for who?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

C - Crazy

P - People

A - Acting

C- Christian

LMAOOOOOOO

Careful, Feisty, you just caused a wall of confusion for the looney tune Tea-nuts. According to FOX NOISE, God loves only Republicans and Great patriotic Americans who watch FOX NOISE.

Opps, almost forgot God hates taxes, Gays, and anyone who doesn't watch FOX NOISE.

I don't know why, Feisty.

All I can think of is 'holes of the ass-variety'.

"CPAP Continuous positive airway pressure."

CNAP, for the less positive.

Coming soon to Chicago.

Perry has a point.

Hillary was a better debater than President Obama.

Would've been a better President, too.

Just my opinion.

Thank heavens First Readers absolutely love diverse opinions.

Especially when they involve President Obama.

Free speech and all...

:-)

. .

There's your point, followed by your opinion.

Thanks, Rich...you free speech advocate, you.

Richard & MB: thanks for the chuckles.

Why, exactly, did Gov. Mitch Daniels decide not to run ?

Does he know something the other GOP candidates don't ?

Sleep apnea. Huh.

So I just read, now back with 10 bottles of Trader Joe's finest $4.99 Chard, Syrah, and Cab, that the FDA is going to ban asthma inhalers because of concerns for the ozone layer.

Holy hell Batman, a de facto tax on the breathless to protect the ozone layer. Alternative inhalers, that do not offend the FDA are three to four times more expensive.

Yep, these guys really are all about protecting the poor and dispossessed.

I'm thinking I will start with the Syrah, right after I finish this here vodka redbull.

Happy Friday every one.

.

Sounds like Spanky is going to get F..... U. I don't blame him. Spewing constant blather can take a lot out of person, let alone a Republican. You would think they would get used to lying, they do it all the time.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

C - Crazy

P - People

A - Acting

C- Christian

Crazy people live for fools. Acting like government is there savior, worked so well in past.

Christians pray for the souls that some don't have.

The truly ignorant will never get a clue, just ask Feisty. Dead from birth. Government supported, couldn't make a dime on own intelligence and is why she is here.

Of course Fisty won't respond. She/it can't. Always for the welfare but can't respond. True story.

I think Spanky, John Boehner and many other republicans are workaholics, because any time you mention the hard work that needs to get done they just head for the nearest saloon and get drunk!

Geez Bob---Sometimes CPAC means Crazy People Acting Cranky.

Just watched the video at the top of this article.

Ron Paul made a veiled threat of violence.

I wonder if his winning the Cali straw pole and the damage to Obama's LA headquarters, has any connection?

Just like the ever so wonderful Steak Fry's and Daily Kos gatherings for Liberals to name a few.

Welcome back ITM - how was your week off? lol

Was ITM sent to the 'time out corner'?

...When will Slick Rick tell us what his 'vision' is!.........

...When will Slick Rick tell us what his 'vision' is!.........

Someone needs to clean off his beer goggles before Ricky will be able to have a vision...

Didn't say it wasn't ITM, now did I?

Fiesty are you calling out someone for getting banned?

You.

Really?

Huh. Now that's something.

By vision, does this mean Slick Rick is seeing things as well as hearing the voice of God ?

I know they don't do health insurance in Texas, but slick Rick really should talk to somebody about those hallucinations.

Maybe he can find a sponsor for a new mental health initiative in Texas.

Heck, he could have all the 3 and 4 year olds have mandatory screening to see if they talk to "imaginary friends." I bet he could even get a few hundred thousand donated to his campaign if he writes up the right executive order.

It is amazing how someone can get banned from this joint and no one knows about it but a few of these liberals. I didn't even know until yesterday. They banned me for telling the truth about a liberal. It doesn't make any difference to me, there are 100's of message boards that bans no one.

That tells me that some of these so-called ordinary citizens in here, actually work for MSNBC in some capacity.

itm...this lib is glad you're back. A few weeks back you posted re: how/why folks make the choice they do to favor a particular political party. It made great points, made them in a civil manner w/o rancor, sarcasm, or nastiness. We don't agree on much, but I much appreciated your seemingly sincere query into others' opinions. I have no idea why you might have been banned, but I guess I'm glad I missed it.

A free for all, anarchy, rules don't apply to me, I can see why you'd like that.

Anonymity is interesting -- Like the anti-abortion folks who pass out phone numbers for owners of properties with abortion clinics. And then one owner started a website and organization in which people can call back the people making those unwanted calls. When anonymity is taken away, the harassing tactics go away too.

Spanky-

"Fiesty are you calling out someone for getting banned?

You.

Really?

Huh. Now that's something."

That is something. The wicked which of the north has deserved to be banned more than anyone, but it is the MSNBC chosen one. All negative all time. It is trying to raise ratings but not working. Most people here are anti wrong and the fisty one can't handle that, nor can MSNBC, #3, well behind #1.

The wrong are fun to play with but most, including fisty, couldn't handle a stand up debate if their lives depended on it. That is why it never responds to queries. Of course it thinks that is racist too.

You know, the selective "outrage" is past annoying. Here comes Bobby, who contributes next to nothing worthwhile to these pages, making blatant personal attacks against Feisty, who ignores him. Then, he attacks her for doing what the COH says, which is to ignore. Now, Bobby has not been banned for all the personal attacks he makes, but he wants to make a case that there is favoritism going on because she has not been banned. Hypocrite much? So, Bobby, pick a position: Either ALL posters, including YOU should be banned for personal attacks or none should be. Currently it looks like no one is. But maybe someone would respond to you if you ever made a coherent post. Why am I doing it today? I am sick to death of the "do what I say, not what I do" right wing nutjobs.

I am sick to death of the "do what I say, not what I do" right wing

Thanks NDD - you have more patience then I do with these hypocritical right wing nuts...

I'm still amazed that these numb nuts haven't educated themselves on the difference between suspended & banned! lol

Then they wonder why they earned the title of 'low information voters...

PS: the little boob couldn't 'debate' his way out of a wet paper bag! ;o)

I'm with you NewDay - right up to the point where you say it is just the right wing nutjobs.

First - it's all the nutjobs, i.e. all of us that from time to time engage, either intentionally or not, in personal attacks. I do. You do, and god knows Feisty does it. SOme do it a lot, and some only do it, but that's only because they can't articulate a reasonable thought, or defend their position.

Secondly it damn near like family here now, and who doesn't like arguing politics with your crazy aunt? Now smart people try not to do that at family gatherings, but around here, it's super easy. Cause you are always wrong.

And so am I.

Besides, we know that personal attacks just mean the attacker has lost the argument. And you know why we know that AND why that fact is so delicious?

Cause Fiesty has said so a million times, right here at FIrst Read.

So let Bob and Fiesty yell, scream, and insult each other. Just our crazy aunt and uncle going at it.

It really is all part of the fun. Could you imagine First Read without Feisty and Bob? It'd suck.

Nobody should be banned, collapsed, or deleted.

Let's let it all hang out.

Well said, Spanky.

While we are on the subject sort of, I had to change my moniker to Forrest Grump 2.0 because over the labor day weekend everything stopped working for me on first read, I could only read posts, I could not post, or vote on posts nothing I clicked worked all of a sudden, I have never gotten an explanation I tried contacting newsvine although it was a holiday weekend, I never to my knowledge have been banned or suspended, all of a sudden it was just like Forrest Grump disappeared for their registry. I would like to know if this was a problem on their end or on something with my system. In any event that is why a few days later I just registered as Forrest Grump 2.0 it took about 5 minutes and nobody as of yet told me I was not supposed to do that or why I had to do that to be able to participate again. Anyway that is why I am now Forrest Grump 2.0, obviously it was not to hide my history of past posts or to get around a suspension, my account just seemed to mysteriously vanish in to thin air and I would still like an explanation if possible.

Forrest,

Your old moniker is still active. You should log back into it and remove it before you get banned for having multiple accounts.

On the black menu bar select “Account” then select “Remove Account”.

The problem you encountered is a common problem on
Newsvine. The only option you have is to notify them (Report Bug) and hope they
fix it quickly. A couple times I have had the problem I was able to fix it by
logging out and back in but twice that didn’t work and I notified Newsvine and
eventually they emailed me and said the problem was fixed but to get everything
working again I would have to log out and back in.

I hope that helps.

Nobody should be banned, collapsed, or deleted.

Let's let it all hang out.

I find myself agreeing with Spanky twice in 24 hours.

Has the world gone absolutely mad?

Thanks Dennis, what causes that? Plus I tried to contact them I did report a bug, but as I said it was the holiday weekend, I tried to log back in a bunch of times my it would even put the log in screen up, but when I re- registered it sailed right through in a matter of minutes. I think maybe I will just stick with the Forrest Grump 2.0 account and see what happens. I appreciate your help because I have not explore all the features of this blog, all I do is read, post, and vote, I don't collapse or ignore or whatever I guess my ineptitude with the all the other workings of the site is painfully obvious.

Yes the world has gone mad!, and even a broken clock is right twice in 24 hours.

The only way anonymity works is if those that post vile comments are punished in some form. Otherwise everyone posting should be required to use their real name, if that is even possible.

The problem I have with Newsvine is that their punishment is not truly enforced. They do not have the registration safeguards in place, like for online banking, to prevent re-registration (rereg). Given that Newsvine can't or won't invest in the security necessary they should abandon all suspensions and banning of users – save some money and reinvest in better software.

You are welcome Forrest.

I have no idea what causes that or the other half dozen problems that Newsvine has – like that all of a sudden your account is reverted back to "new user" status and you cannot post links.

They don't seem to work weekends or holidays.

AM, Forrest 1.0/2.0 - I'm here to amuse and entertain.

And Forrest it's 11:00 am. :)

And come on AM, we are far more alike than we are different, you and I.

AM, Forrest 1.0/2.0 - I'm here to amuse and entertain.

I hear ya buddy I actually feel the same way I have no personal I'll will for anyone.

However I am still going with the position that the world has indeed gone mad, it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world, I know I'm getting mad, I want to fix some Sh!t, I'm tired of just talking about it all the time, these politicians all of them better get their ass in gear.

Have a great weekend all.

Oh and Forrest, re: our conversation yesterday about Volts:

I just finished putting now break pads on my car. I love working on cars, jet skis, boats, quads, motorcycles. My son, who just got his first car [a lovely 2004 Crown Vic - should things not work out I figure a couple cans of yellow spray paint and he can be a cabbie], so I made him "help" me. As you can imagine, todays teenagers are not so into the physical world, let alone auto mechanics [damn xbox, computers, but that's another discussion].

One big issue with the Volt and all hybrids and electrics I have is a fear that soon there will be no more auto mechanics. Those things are essentially black boxes. Regular new cars are tough enough - a lot of computers and electronics, but I can still get by. But the Hybrids?

Plus it's not like independent mechanics can work on them - have to have OEM computer codes and parts.

Now I get this is both irrational, and silly - progress is progress, but I have a lot of time invested in learning about the current technology. It's bad enough they have basically taken away my beloved two stroke motors.

Spanky, Your people person skills show much better on the weekends.:)

As a parent of a teenage driver, you have my sympathy. Our son's first car was a big old AMC station wagon. Did not want him to kill himself in a little sporty thing. Years later, he told me he won the award from his high schools friends for getting 23 kids in the car after a football game. Drove all to a party clear across town!!

Spanky: I make it a practice of not reading or responding to you, because I find you genuinely disrespectful of the women who post here. I also believe your only point of being on FR is to insult others, not to participate in an on-going discussion. I am relaxing my policy this once for this purpose:

To give you a chance to behave differently.

To prove that you can actually read and interpret correctly a relatively simple post that I made that was very specific in what it said: to wit: "take a position: all posts attacking others are banned or none are". This idea that banning is aimed toward one group and not the other is ludicrous.

Now. If you want to take the position that no one should be banned, fine with me. But, quit complaining about what the other side writes, in a blatant attack toward that person. Get it now?

Newday - simple for me - no banning, and I don't complain about what the "other side" writes.

1. There is only on side - Americans airing political differences;

2. personal attacks are stupid;

3. it's all entertainment.

But be aware - I am the shallowest person you are likely to meet.

I never ever complain about the other side. I revel in it.

I am still waiting for a direct debate with Feisty or any of the rest of the wrong. As for being banned any period of time. It hasn't happened to me. Unlike the wrong, I don't have to resort to name calling. The truth is much easier to confuse them with. Of course Feisty and so many other wrong sided folks can't do any better than name calling. That is why they won't debate me.

Please, prove me wrong. Someone with a set?

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

"Spanky: I make it a practice of not reading or responding to you"

Because you can't handle the truth? Because you can't enter a debate without name calling? Because your idea of debate is attacking the messenger instead of refuring the truth? Please, do tell.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

"This idea that banning is aimed toward one group and not the other is ludicrous."

If that was true, then why has Feisty never been banned even for a day with all of her name calling hate filled responses? Do tell. And why is she nearly always the first one to post on First Read? The only answer for that is that she is an MSNBC shill, part of the privilaged bunch. Either that or she lives on the computer just waiting to get the first hate speech in, which means she hasn't got a life either.

It's all good Bob - they can respond, ignore, or personally attack.

First read, and it's participants are the best.

Feisty has been suspended a few times. Here is the most recent (last Monday):

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/19/7837921-is-president-obama-engaging-in-class-warfare?last=1316471144&threadId=3225667&sp=0&pc=25#c58183633

I bow down. Why hasn't she been banned for continued breaking of the rules?

Well Spanky I missed your post this afternoon, I hope you catch up to this reply before the weekend is over. I had get away from the computer and actually do some work around the house myself, Mrs. Grump gets suspicious when I'm in my "office" spending a lot of time beating on these computer keys, and then no checks come in the mail for any billable service to an account. The next thing you know she will suggest I get my tools out and go make an honest living, but I will be back at that soon enough. Sometimes people talk about people getting paid to post, I wish I could get a deal like that, getting paid to have some fun. How does that work, how do you get that gig?

Congratulations to you and your son on his first car, (a huge new worry for you and the wife) it is a big, big deal in a mans life when he gets his first wheels, it is a sad sad day when an old man has to be told he can longer drive a car, we probably make it more important than we should, but we do. I think the Crown Vic is a perfect car for a young driver, nice and big, with a big back seat, very stable and sturdy car, my main thing I always felt that after all the preaching about speeding, and safety ect, was that the bottom line was that if my any of my kids was in an accident I wanted them to win. A lot of the newer cars are a mystery to many people because of all the electronics, but I am like you I can change a water pump or an alternator and a few other things that don't involve anything more than hand tools and oil change ramps.

The Xbox thing tickled me because if you see young people "hotrodding" an engine today it is not like when I was young, when you got greasy messing with carbs, and intake manifolds, and exhaust manifolds, this kids today use a laptop to reprogram or just change the "chip" and the old mans Taurus turns into a fuel injected speeding ticket machine. Don't worry about the joy of tinkering or repairing your traditional combustion engine vehicles or putting all the mechanics out of work, they will be here for the rest of your life, and then some. Electric cars will need some service and maintenance, and tires, especially the hybrids because they still have a gas engine, the series hybrids in my opinion will need less, and the all electrics will need much less. On an all electric there are just so many things that are eliminated that there is just a lot less to go wrong, no fuel delivery system, no distributor system, no exhaust system, no liquid cooling system, it is a pretty straight forward proposition to deliver power from the battery pack to the electric motors to the wheels, many don't need what you would recognize as a transmission, and sadly many have no brake pads for you to replace (they have regenertive braking, it's cool, a good topic for another time). But they do have parts and dealers will have to have trained people who can diagnose the problem and replace or repair those parts, when they do need service, it will right down these young kids alley, they will be fine. I will also guarantee you people are going to find out they can do some mighty neat stuff with electric motors. People will find they can develop monster torque from zero to the the high end of the electric motors RPM range, or blazing speed, or both. You can talk about blowers, turbo chargers, hot three quarter camshafts, and all kinds of high performance parts for a quick and powerful response from a combustion engine, I got to tell you nothing beats the electron for quick delivery of energy, plus you don't have the inefficiency or problem of reciprocating pistons that want to fly off the piston rods just when you get it revved up real good, you can turn some outrageous RPM's with modern electric motors. The proliferation of electric cars won't deprive mechanics of there trade, it will change it some, modern combustion engines have changed it already, the key is training you really don't want shade tree mechanics like me and you to do a hell of a under your hood these days. Electric cars will continue to evolve and there will be guys jumping into aftermarket innovations, accessories, and modifications, I think it could enhance and expand a good mechanics shops business, if they get or hire the young people who will learn what they need to learn if they want to be a modern professional car mechanic. It will be new, and different, and maybe even difficult at first, but the kids will be alright because they are young and don't yet have the good sense we do, hell young people do all kinds of things old people know is impossible, because the damn young fools don't even realize that it was impossible.

Sorry this got kind of long, but one last thing, I love the idea of electric cars because we can generate electricity at will, we can build all the generators we want, we can make elctricty so many different ways it is not even funny, why depend so much on foreign or even precious domestic oil supplies when we don't have to. Electric cars are not for everyone but they can be an alternative for many and at the very least save a little gas for a little longer for your boy and his cool new wheels!

Bob: what you write defies credulity, and is so disingenuous that an objective reader must call it out for the lie that it is. From your comment at 2.28: "unlike the wrong, I don't have to resort to name calling." From your comment at 2.11: "... the wicked witch of the north"...

You don't engage in name calling Bobby? Get over yourself, you are among the WORST.

Now, which is it: name calling should cause all to banned....or name calling is a part of the game? You can't have this both ways and I am way yonder beyond patience with right wing hypocrisy. Either admit to what you do and clean up your own backyard, or admit that Newsvine just doesn't ban people on FR for anything other than re regs.

Or at least spare us the whining.

Spanky: You don't have to point out how shallow you are, I recognized that long ago. And I disagree, you do make personal attacks, you just don't want to own them. I suggest you reflect on your comments toward the woman on this board, you are not clever and it is getting old.

You go girl!

I have often thought, Forrest, that we should all be more like you. You are among my favorites of the people that write here. You offer so much that the rest of us should emulate, especially your courtesy.

Bob: what you write defies credulity, and is so disingenuous that an objective reader must call it out for the lie that it is

Another thing an objective reader should ask themselves - where did I start out making personal attacks towards another poster here?

Answer: No where...

Do notice however, the amount of attacks that are directed towards me...

Sorry, I don't roll over like some submissive concubine and 'take it' - you want to throw a elbow you damn well be prepared to take one!

And I make NO apologies!!! ;o)

Thanks NNDR for pointing out ever so eloquently the double standards around here...

PS: Putting Spanky on ignore was the best thing I ever did - I can scroll right over the 'legend in his own mind's' nonsense & general disrespect for women!

For the record - I think I have a total of 5 posters on *ignore* it's a VERY exclusive list! ;o)

Well thank you very much ND, but your are too kind, as I can get a bit nasty every once in a while as well. I can be provoked, as well as the next person, I think anonymity allows people to get carried away more easily than they would in person. I also think you don't need to let some of the boys on the playground pull your pigtails and run if you feel they are doing so, and ha evidently you feel the same way. I am supposedly the union thug type, I am definitely a union man, I believe in them, been in and around them all my life, I am a product of that system, I know I am a long way from perfect (hell who isn't) but I know I am no goon either. The generalized union bashing that goes on actually bothers me more than some of the stuff that might be directed at me personally. You can't accomplish what my union has accomplished, what our members accomplish, or what I have personally accomplished in my lifetime by simply gooning people, as some people here swear that's all we do. I have found that I have gotten a lot of what I want and need out of life by helping others get what they want and need out of life. Everybody has to work hard at it, the employers and the employees, and maybe the hardest part and most important part is that both have to treat each other with fairness and honesty, we owe each other that much. We can disagree, we can argue, we can bargain, we can certainly agree as well, and we can bring each other mutual benefit, but that all works better when we treat each person inside our ranks and outside of them, with fairness and honesty. So while I often throw some over the top generalized zingers out there on politicians, or political factions, when dealing with people or even an anonymous poster on a personal level I try to be more fair and honest than that. I fail often, union goons have feelings too, and sometimes your emotion gets the best of you, but having said that there is no reason anybody should just accept it, and not call me out on it, if they feel I have crossed their line. Thank you again for the nice compliment, now the fair and honest thing would be for me to try harder to live up to it.

Forrest, I feel you live up to standards of courtesy more than the rest. Do I respond when I am attacked? Of course.

Here is where I differ from the Bob's of the world. I don't go around claiming that FR has favoritism toward one group or another. They have stated what their policy is. Politics is a contact sport and if you don't like it, don't post here. I do think things that are threatening or vulgar should be collapsed. That way, the moderators can judge if there is a problem or not. Beyond that, let the games continue.

Feisty: it is the double standard that I reject. If posters don't like personal attacks, simple remedy, don't make them. That way, the other guy doesn't either.

I currently have one poster on ignore and that is theotas. Too many brain cells die if you try to read what she posts.

Too many brain cells die if you try to read what she posts.

Funny... that's precisely how I feel about Spanky! ;o)

Regarding the personal attacks, visit those who whine about it the most account(s) and get back to me on who the instigator is...

I'm with you ND you want people to be fair and honest about what goes on from both sides, no double standard, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. The system here works well enough in that regard, even if some of the posters do not.

Exactly, Forrest.

Dennis I did as you advised and removed the Forrest Grump account. Thanks Again.

I see our friend bobby, as is the wont of the right wing, vanished when challenged. No surprise there since he completely lost his point. This, again, bobby, is why people don't respond to your rants. You are quite unable to defend your position.

Well said, Pat, Boston.

It's like disaster relief, cut money from education, clean energy support or food programs for Americans or else the GOP won't help Americans who are hurting and need help. They'll protect the richest 1% and allow millions of Americans to live in poverty. So much for their alleged Christian values.

Pat,

I did not see anywhere that Romney promoted starving children in America. You have made that up. The article points out his belief that Texas should not give free tuition to the state funded colleges to illegal immigrants.

I think that if we change the laws to say that "All people that enter this country are entitled to all support services of the government and are not considered illegal aliens." then we should provide free school to them. Until then, they are breaking the law and should not be entitled to all the freedoms that legal American citizens are entitled to.

Do you think it is a requirement of the the Government to feed, house and educate illegal terrorist in this country? What if they don't want to blow up buildings, but simply want to create traffic jams? What if they only want to scare the hell out of little old ladies? Are these people entitled to out tax funded support services?

Jody, they have no Christian values. It's right out there for all to see. I do love what Lawrence O'Donnell has done for the school children in Africa. Keith O. sponsored health care clinics here in America. Bravo to them both.

But that's what is going on now. If we the people don't do something, we're all cooked. The Christians in this country haven't stepped up to the plate. What exactly do they believe in?

Certainly not in the words Jesus spoke. I don't consider myself a Christian, however I do believe in many of Jesus' teachings.

Check out Darryl Issa over @ Think Progress for his latest hypocrisy stand between what he wants/needs in private and his PR nonsense that he pulls on the floor re: taxpayer money for clean energy.

Two completely different stances. You can't make this stuff up.

JC, so you went from educating children to illegal terrorists and blowing up buildings in one post?

Lovely. Just lovely.

Romney is a cruel hearted man.

Pat Boston MA.

These hypocrites are simply nuts especially, the Kantor, the Grimm Weeper and McChinless.

I still can believe these low life anarchist GOP/ Tea Potty nuts are holding the country hostage over FEMA because they want to shut the government down AGAIN!!!

These hypocrites claim they are listening to the people. Sure, the people on Wall Street.

Here in Massachusetts, Romney was "soft" on illegal immigration. He had illegals working in his yard, the press found out, so he fired them.

Then it happened again. And again had to fire his gardeners.

He's soft on illegal immigration.

And in the GOP, you can't be soft on anything. It's not macho.

Beverly, well they're using FEMA so the Republicans can then blame the Democrats if it doesn't pass. It's their MO. Democrats wouldn't fund FEMA they will say.

Elementary my dear. Elementary.

Simple the Republicans are just like children throwing a tantrum until they get what they want. And as long as they continue to get any of their demands they will not stop. They do not care about anything or anyone but themselves and their wants. They need to be spanked and sent to their rooms without dinner for a week. They have no connection to what real people are dealing with and even if they did would not care, not their problem.

And now the Republicans are using No Child Left Behind against President Obama. He's reforming the program, which we all agree needed reform. But of course the GOP is now against it.

Simply because he's President Obama. A Democrat.

Yes, I stand behind what I said. I did not make up something about a politician to sway public opinion away from them. Let me give it a try:

Obama wants all single mothers to have their tubes tied. How dare he try to tell women what they can do with their reproductive organs. This is a disgrace! Since Obama is a Democrat, all democrats must believe this too. All Democrats have no heart and want to rip out women's ovaries. How can those Democrats live with themselves? What hypocrites they are! Do not vote for any democrat, they simply want to mutilate women; all of them!

Pat is a democrat. What a cruel hearted man/woman. (Can't tell by the name...)

For the record: I'm a cruel hearted woman.

Pat - Just wanted to tell you, that it was reading your posts some 3-4 years ago that inspired me to join the Vine, and try to make a positive contribution now and then.

You carry yourself well, here, there, and (I'm sure), every where you go.

Pat - Just wanted to tell you, that it was reading your posts some 3-4 years ago that inspired me to join the Vine, and try to make a positive contribution now and then.

Standing *O* Richard!

Pat & Nashville Fan were instrumental in me taking the plunge way back when...

JC in G, you just won the prize for the most nonsensical comment on FR. You see, JC, I don't listen to what the GOP says, I watch what they do. All their actions have been to cut programs for children, food for the poor, cut education, cut spending for every worthy program yet they will defend millionaires paying another $30 for every $1000 in earnings and corporate tax loopholes and instead deny the very programs to help the poor; and then they claim to be supporting America and to be Christians--they are neither. It isn't what they say, it's what they do.

Thank you Richard very much for the compliment. I try very hard to be respectful here and in my real life to everyone. I think it's important.

Very glad to have you join us here. You are among friends.

Jody,

The evil rich pay most of the taxes that support the programs to feed hungry children, give money to out of work people, pay teachers to teach our children. This is a fact. I know it is one that liberals hate, so their response is "It's not enough, you need to do more."

You can attempt to vilify Republicans all you want with made up claims, but the facts are the facts. To believe that that Republicans as a whole, or that wealthy people as a whole want American children to starve to death is ludicrous. To make the unfounded claim is lunacy.

The fact that the two parties disagree on some ideological ideas is healthy and creates a good balance to insure that fanatics don't run the country. To claim that one party is so fanatical that they want to starve children is crazy. If that group got they way and controlled the government, you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be children starving to death. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

"...a good balance to insure that fanatics don't run the country".

Best to non-elect any TP folks, or starving is going to be the norm.

Thanks Richard, you just made my point. You have demonized that TP by saying they will starve children. Had you said the skinheads, or the KKK or the Westbourough Baptist, I might agree with you. Your point is that a group of people that disagree on the role of government in our personal welfare and the percentage of taxes we should pay wants to starve children to death. Nice sane response.

"personal welfare"

Are you on an island?

k

JC: The TeaThuglicans don't want to starve anyone. They just want to reduce the size of government. If people starve as a result of that, then they should take personal responsibility for their failure to plan on the government ripping the safety net from under them just as the wealthiest Americans have completed the financial destruction of the United States.

See, it is all the fault of the poor people for failing to be rich. "job creators."

But according to the left namecallers, the Tea Party and the Republicans do want to starve people. Did you not read any of the posts above?

Yes, I do believe in self reliance and personal responsibility. It would appear that the Democrats do not. We have compromised from the beginning of the country on this issue. There has always been accommodations for people that can not take care of themselves. There has always been accommodations for people that do not want to take care of themselves; these accommodations are not at "Nice" as the first group, but provide a safety net to keep people from starving. Now, it appears that the left feels this is not good enough, that the people that cannot or will not take care of themselves deserve as much as people that try and do take care of themselves. The point made above was that Mitt Romney wanted children to starve because he did not think that illegal aliens should have college given to them for free. By giving tax money to illegal aliens for schooling, there is less money to spend on feeding orphan children. Would I go so far as to make the statement that Democrats want to starve children because they want to give illegal aliens free schooling. No. That would be nonsense. It is pretty obvious that most Americans are anti-starving children. I personally know a family that chooses to live on the government dole and lives a lifestyle very close to mine; where I spend over 40 hours a week working, making sacrifices so that I will provide for myself during retirement and to be able to provide my children with some kind of legacy that may give them the opportunity to have what I have had. Now I hear that I am a bad person, (I'm well below what is considered rich) and that I want to starve children. BullShip. I do more for my fellow man than most people living off the government teet. Between church, civic organizations and contributions to help needy people, I am offended when I am characterized as someone that wants to starve children.

JC, damn fine post sir. That's what they want to do to you, offend, make you angry. Keep doing what your doing. You are a good person.

First, it's not FREE tuition- it's IN STATE tuition- which is lower than that paid by out of state students.

Second, I think Perry is right on this, Romney is wrong.

Third, it IS an issue for the state- in this case, Texas- to decide. They, after all, are responsible for the tuition rates at state colleges and universities.

Fourth, Pat is being totally disingenuous. She has no intention of saying she agrees with Perry on this matter(heaven forfend!), but is more than happy to use it as a bludgeon against Romney.

Fifth- although this is an interesting conversation, this election will be about the economy. Obama will lose.

Pat-

"Romney is a cruel hearted man."

Was President Harry Truman "a cruel hearted man" when he ordered that nuclear devices be used against the largely defenseless civilian populations in the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945?

Or, was he a leader faced with a difficult set of options?

However the United States finally deals with the issue of illegal immigration, it's pretty clear that the nation no longer has the resources to educate and provide medical care for anyone who chooses to cross our borders illegally and violate our national sovereignty...particularly when so many are waiting patiently to enter the United States legally. U.S. tax revenue needs to be focused on helping and providing essential services to U.S. citizens, and those from other nations who are here, but possess legal immigration status.

If wanting to know exactly who is entering the country and why is "cruel hearted", I'm guessing that most Americans want their next President to be exactly that...rather than one who'll continue the unsustainable status quo where immigration policy is concerned.

I guarantee you the end result of controlling U.S. borders won't be nearly as "cruel hearted" as the incineration of tens of thousands of innocent people.

That said, President Harry Truman absolutely made the correct decision for the people of the United States.

I wonder if Pat knows who the "cruel hearted" president was that authorized Operation Wetback - you all remember that one, where they rounded up al the illegals and shipped them out.

I also suspect Pat has a front door, that has a lock, which I suspect she locks when she is not at home, and at night.

Huh.

First off, using Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, obviously air and water, then food, shelter, and I would add health care as a basic need, are necessary for survival. Is it the government's responsibility to provide anything, including basic needs? For children, the disabled, the elderly--yes, we as a society need to help those who can't help themselves. Even primitive tribes do this.

For able body citizens, not so much. However, in accordance with the social contract, and taxation without representation, and the right of liberty and the pursuit of happiness, etc., it is government's responsibility to: 1) reciprocate by using tax dollars to improve the lives of tax payers; 2) to provide Rule of Law, which includes regulations to protect citizens; 3) to provide fairness not only in taxation but in access to resources and opportunities, etc.

When people say "level playing field" or "sharing in sacrifice" this is what they mean, not just the idea of helping folks get fishing poles instead of just giving them fish, but making a society in which everyone contributes what they can and everyone benefits from the system.

I like the "paying it forward" comments by Elizabeth Warren, who points out that corporations could not be successful without the roads we all pay for, without the educated employees we all pay for, without the protection from military, police, and fire departments, we all pay for. As she says, people don't get rich by themselves, and they need to "pay it forward."

But when you have fear and rampant propaganda and selfishness, these concepts are hard to convey. That's why the president is out there, being a warrior for the middle class. Obama/Biden - 2012!

That's fantastic True Patriot, but were are not a primitive tribe, and brother Elizabeth, pulls in north of $500k.

Oh, and she under reported about $200k, a la Geitner, cause it seems she forgot about all that income she got from us to over see TARP.

A real peach, this one.

Easy to Pay it Forward when you are evading taxes, like Timmy and Rangel.

So TrueP - she kinda selfish, not paying her taxes and all, right?

It's okay, you don't have to answer.

look! We have illegal immigrants in Maine too! We are prosecuting the employers, do you do that in Texas?

http://www.mainebiz.biz/news48513.html

I'm bored. I think I'll bug ITM :)

ITM: Where did I bash Texas? No where.

Even though you bash MA all.the.time.

I love ALL 50 states. Every single state in this nation has contributed to the building of our country. Texas is one of them. Each state is different, with different accents, different cultures, different upbringings, different clothing, different religions, different foods. I love the diversity of each state. Don't you? No one state is better than the other. We all matter.

This is what is great about our country.

I just tell the truth about wages in Texas if you think that is bashing Texas then I guess that speaks more to what you think of Texas than what I think of Texas.

Great post kate. I prefer Perry's stance much more so than Romney's.

Kate, Imma' go off on a tangent here and pontificate about something a minute. I think I just discovered why Nikki Haley took the entourage on the over a 1/4 of a million dollar Paris junket. It wasn't to look for jobs to import,...

It was to give herself some Foreign Policy bona fides. **SHUDDER**

Please Lord, please tell me she isn't Perry's pick for the x chromosome vote!

funny girl clara for it does suggest that obama also had little in the areas of economic, foreign policy, military and how to win friends and influence people bona fides as well.

I wish Obama had a bonafide Cowboy Hat. I guess the problem with cowboy hats is that it is hard to be taken seriously in Texas without wearing one, and hard to taken seriously outside of Texas if you are wearing one. Hermann Cain is the new Sheriff in town, this might be fun to watch, kind of like "Blazzing Saddles", only none of the other candidates or their speechwriters is as funny as Mel Brooks. On second thought they might be at that, I can't wait for the next debate.

Its quite funny how some Repubs don't seem to realize that Hispanic are the fastest growing minority

Suggesting Hispanics be shot by helicopter certainly isn't bolstering their image!

EXCELLENT post

GOP---I second that approval!!!

THat is a good idea GOPis -

But will the commercial specify the date? Cause not sure if you know this, I do cause I just heard Soros say so, but we are in a Double dip recession right now, plus the market ain't looking so good.

Oh and GOPis - how is the job market, real estate market and general hopelessness going now?

Crimminy - now that you say it that way GOPis, has anything changed? Is then any Hope?

GOP -- you really really really need to send that 'infomercial' to the DNC!

There comes a point where you have to shut off the noise and actually get out there and see what is going on for yourself. Yes, times are hard. But even more than destitute jobless hopeless men I believe the majority of Americans are people like me who recognize the difficulties, accept them for what they are, buck up, take responsibility for our own lives, and resolve to work ourselves through the hard times.

Politics and politicians are a reflection of We, the People. Don't like it? Look in the mirror.

Not everyone is going to make it - maybe I will end up on the street - but I'll be damned before I point a finger at anyone other than myself.

Get outside. Look around. Filter the news through your own eyes, ears, and mind. When I do that I see a lot of people doing the best they can and despite our best efforts to the contrary the world is a pretty cool place.

now that you say it that way GOPis, has anything changed?

No Spanks, not much has changed. America is still right where Bush left it.

Dispute that.

Cause not sure if you know this, I do cause I just heard Soros say so, but we are in a Double dip recession......

I'm not sure if YOU know this or not Spanks,....but this economy is right where it was headed starting in 2008. Despite 1/2-baked stimulus riddled with republican party tax cuts instead of stimulus funds. Not sure Obama's economy has happened yet.

I think we'll need more than 3 years to shake off the effects of 30 years of Reganomics.

BTW: Which client are you billing for this? I want to call em' up.

Get outside. Look around. Filter the news through your own eyes, ears, and mind.

I do Mark. Do you? I can see a foreclosure sign. I can see how many cars are in our parking structures at work. I see the car sales figures.

So you blame Obama because there are no jobs? Blame him for the stock market? Blame him for the state of an economy of planetary scope? Really?

China seems to be doing just fine.

Whadye' suppose they're doing right that isn't being done by us? I thought the much-vaunted Bush tax cuts were supposed to cure everything but spinal curvature. What happened? Bush tax cuts have been in place for 10 years now. Where is that prosperity tsunami they've been promising us? What incentive do business leaders have to hire when they already have their money from tax cuts?

Any comments?

I just wish that republicans were more self-reliant and stopped relying on their tax cuts. I wish republicans knew what it is like to work for a living and dropped their "entitlement attitude".

Why don't they take personal responsibility fr their own lives instead of cannibalizing the middle class and unions?

Why does their pleasure take place at the cost of someone else's pain?

John smith: You can't ignore the FACT that Obama was handed an economy plummeting into Depression either. He didn't make it this way. It was handed to him this way. F-A-C-T. A four-letter word to republicans.

It's historical record.

The fascist experiment being performed in the U.S. for the last 30 years is reality too.

GOP:

No one forced Obama to run for POTUS. You take a job AS IS. When you are hired everything that job encompasses become YOURS..... It doesn't matter if the prior employee was terrible; when you are hired I as an employer do not want to hear about how jacked up it was when you got here.

As far as a Depression you liberals keep insisting we were heading for; YOU CANNOT PROVE something that never happened. F-A-C-T.......

Plenty of blame to go around

Agreed. And I placed it right where it belongs,.....on the party of "personal responsibility".

I wasn't aware that Ray Nagin was in charge of Nat. Guard forces, or that most of their amphibious assets were in Iraq. Remember when 23 marines were massacred in Iraq in an amphibious vehicle? Armor was too thin cause it shoulda' been patrolling the streets of New Orleans.

He was in charge because FEMA wasn't / isn't on the ground when things start, never was meant to be. He didn't move the school buses, but sure got his own a$$ out in a hurry. But that's all right, isn't it? He is in fact totally perfect, for he has the magical (D) after his name, meaning he can never do anything which is wrong, lazy, stupid, or not for the "people". You are intellectually "extinct".

He was in charge because FEMA wasn't / isn't on the ground when things start, never was meant to be.

Huh? Who? What?

for he has the magical (D) after his name

No. I hold the "D"'s to a higher standard. Repubs? I expect lousy behavior from them. It's in their DNA.

FEMA has always been predicated upon the premise that local and state authorities are in charge for the first 72 hours. Nagin, of course, wasn't competent to govern for the first 72 minutes. In retrospect, GWB should have probably told both mayor and governor to $%63 themselves, and put someone a lot sharper than his pal "Brownie" in charge from the get-go, but then would have been accused of disrespecting a minority mayor and a female governor. At best, his people just made what was already a no-win terrible situation worse before it got better.

Gee, GOPis that's a mighty narrow focus, eh?

I don't remember the part where Irene hit a major city that is mostly below sea level. Apples & oranges.

Boston,....not a major city? Who knew.

The man said BELOW SEA level jackazz.

How far a city is below sea level is not the point. It is the government's response to crisis that is at issue. Don't much matter whether the city is on a mountaintop, or in a cavern.

Right?

Dems just do government better. Better response, lower costs, better outcome. Beats republikan fascism.

B'sides ITM,.....how do you know RLQUALL is a man?