Are the puppies a side to the scrambled eggs and chorizo?

"Are the puppies a side to the scrambled eggs and chorizo?"

Yes. Suteed in the beer, of course.

Yum!

DBO -

I am certainly in favor of all three, too, or in some cases, the Portuguese equivalent of chorizo (there is a great cafe in Chino, CA, that makes it).

However, I prefer my puppies playful rather than sauteed in beer. And I prefer beer to coffee with those scrambled eggs.

Now, on the actual topic of this announcement ...

My first thought was that MSNBC appeared to be making a sidewise slam at its other polling partner, the WSJ. Of course, given that the WSJ is Rupert Murdoch's U.S. playpen, it could also be that the Marist alliance balances the equation.

Whatever the case, I'm all for more diversity and balance in polling than the skewed junk that's been emanating from the WSJ in recent years.

Cause what we really, really need is more polls.

Spanky of course we need more polls, just means we have more people telling us what and how to think. Polls are like courtrooms, its all in how your phrase the question as to what answer you get. Or maybe more poles mean more dancers and I am up for that.

Polls are meaningless [unless they support my position], but you have it exactly wrong about courtrooms.

The courtroom is where the truth finally comes out. Really hard to spin anything there, what with the opposing counsel, judge and jury.

It's a very slow and expensive process, but the truth usually comes out.

And Tis, nobody tells us what to think. Ever.

Announcing the new NBC News/Marxist poll

Spanky-

Cause what we really, really need is more polls.

Spanky, you need more than polls; dear.

yeah, Bev, he needs dancers to go with them. Where is that new jersey nut job when you need her?

Where is that new jersey nut job when you need her?

Cashing in her quarters - she had a lucrative shift last night! ;o)

The toothless crowd sure are some big tippers!

I noticed she left quite a load on your porch this morning...

So much poll-bashing...

About two weeks ago, two separate pollsters declared that the Democratic candidate in the NY-9 special election was trailing by 6-pts...in a district with a 3-1 Democratic registration edge. The Democratic Party certainly believed the pollsters, panicked appropriately, and began pouring money into a last-ditch effort to save NY-9.

It didn't work.

The Republican won by 8 pts.

But the pollsters held up their end of the deal, didn't they?

They generally do.

John A. -- Agreed that Murdoch has ruined the WSJ. Hopefully the NBC/WSJ poll will be completely replaced with the new NBC News/Marist poll, as anything would be better.

Hey, did anyone notice the article headlining today: "Is The Recession Really Over?" And as noted in the article (as well as in regard to today's stock market) the global recession is a major factor. Who was it that posted how I had no political or economic understanding when I said these very things earlier in the week? Yeah, you know all those outlandish posts of mine. Hmm...yeah.

Clara KCMO

yeah, Bev, he needs dancers to go with them. Where is that new jersey nut job when you need her?

She may still be on her poll. Probably, she thought it better to collect as many coins as she can since she can't get home. Jersey lost power.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/218432/20110922/nj-transit-train-delays-passengers-stuck-in-tunnel-ny-nj.htm

Interesting you chose Marist. What's McClatchy think about it?

I have my own poll tom propose. It won't be scientific, you understand- limited, as it is, to those who post here.

Anyway, here goes-

You will recall that, during the last election, the use of Obama's middle name was forbidden. The use of it was greeted with cries of racism, or or bigotry, or, well, something. I am therefore proposing a NEW middle name- one with absolutely no "exotic" connotations. In fact, I selected the choices from our own US military.

Your choices are:

Barack "SNAFU" Obama, or

Barack "FUBAR" Obama.

I go with the one that gets the most votes.

As predictable on timing as on subject matter,...got love THAT!

"Barack "SNAFU" Obama, or

Barack "FUBAR" Obama.

I go with the one that gets the most votes."

I thought you were past this stuff, seeing as how Obama is toast, now.

Say- who you like in the race to fix unemployment in 2.5 years, and why?

As predictable on timing as on subject matter,...got love THAT!

Right? lmao

You will recall that, during the last election, the use of Obama's middle name was forbidden

Gee... I could of sworn that posters added Hussein to their monikers in solidarity...

First the kidneys... now the brain's dead as well...

Spanky, I have been involved in courtroom proceeding myself. and their is a difference between fact and truth. There is a way to control truth and sorry attorneys are very good and controlling what is concidered truth. While you may not listen to polls many many other do and look at them as fact when they are anything but. They are intended to mislead no matter who is doing the polling and it does work. How many times a day on this site does someone quote a poll for this or a poll for that. And they believe it with every fiber of their being. Same goes for listening to only one news source. You only get one veiw point and all news companies now have their own views to push.

Now as for telling us how to think, who is us, we are all being told how to think everyday by every politician, teacher, text book, news program so narrow that statement down a bit.

Nice, Feisty.

Classy...in keeping with your usual demeanor.

I'll bet Mark and Dom loved that one.

You GO girl!

I'm a U.S. Army alumnus, dbo.

And...

Quite familiar with those two particular acronyms.

They're reasonable.

Certainly, in light of the facts on the ground.

I prefer option "b"...based on my own observations.

I told you, dbo. . .

I'm LEANING Perry.

Here's why

http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590

Even with the current downturn in the economy, Texas outperforms the nation. Looks like he knows how to create the right atmosphere.

It's a lean, not a firm decision. It's early in the process.

Maybe she didn't yet get her talking points from Master Spanky. With his little harem of nojo, jas1 along with a couple of eunachs i.e the Bobs and the other toothless wonders, they try to spin their way around the topics here in the afternoon with inane one liners.

She rises to the bait everytime, so predictable. And hedging her bets too I see. So many choices so little substance

Either way Spanky Republicans are in trouble. Let the truth come out, the truth is most of the people in this country are not upset that they are being asked to pay $200,000 in taxes on their $600,000 of income, instead of the $100,000 they currently pay, there is just not enough people in America that feel that is a big problem for them personally. There are just not enough people that feel that long established corporations who pay zero taxes but claim they pay to much, take rebates, then post astronomical profits is why they don't have a job anymore. Many people will cast their political party aside and be will forced to vote to eat. Besides that politics is practiced in the courtroom of public opinion not a courtroom of law. People are good and pissed, all incumbents are in danger, in the end if that happens, the side with the most incumbents is in the most danger. The polls show Republicans are still waiting for Superman. If Obama continues to push the jobs bill, if he fights the republican agenda, and yet continues to offer them room to compromise, the jurors in the court of public opinion will find him not guilty. There is a growing majority of Americans of all ages, that are fed up with the Republican controlled House. Congress has never been held in lower esteem, never, never ever, they won the real life reality show award "Americas Biggest Losers That Get Paid $175,000 a year, Free Cadillac Health Care, 20 Weeks Vacation Each Year, Full Lifetime Pension For 5 Years Service, But Then Have The Balls To Claim The Solution To Our Problems Is To Lay Off And Cut Back All Other Government Employees, And To Add As Much Insult To The Injury As Possible By Portraying Those That Did The Work Of The Community As Lazy, Incompetent, And Overpaid". They won that very long titled award. I will grant you that nobody has liked any of these guys on either side for quite some time but this crew they won the "World Series Of Suck" in the courtroom of public opinion. I think all incumbents are in possible danger but this Congress makes it easy for Obama to be found not guilty in the courtroom of public opinion, and republicans don't have a good enough lawyer, and by lawyer I mean presidential candidate to get a conviction on him.

Hey Jas1 - I want to thank you for your comment below about libbies treating their politicians like rock stars. and conservatives as useful idiots.

I think you are totally rightAnd it really explains a lot.

Like Ronald R. He was a B actor and a great politician. But his greatness can from his timing and circumstances. He was the right guy, with the right message, at that time only. Any other time [after Carter screwed the pooch, and who knows.

Similarly Obama had it all lined up - bad recession, huge opposition, but he is the wrong guy and we know his are the wrong policies.

Only libbies refer to Regan as a "Saint" to make fun of us. And the cause that's the way they treat their politicians - they don't get we do not, and never will.

So thanks, helps me understand team blue all the better.

The quality of survey methods are why Rasmussen, Pew, etc. are respected more than other polls. And then averaging these polls can give an even more accurate finding, as well as tracking over time.

The majority in Anerica supports entitlements/trust funds, to require the rich and corporations to pay their fair share in taxes, even for abortion to remain legal at least in cases of rape/incest -- The Teapublican platform is completely contrary to these mainstream positions. Republicans have abused parliamentary rules such as the filibuster, blocks, holds, etc. at record levels. The Tea Party minority is perverting our constinutional democracy to move the goal posts of politics to the far-right of majority sentiment in America.

The majority of Americans are more liberal, but are not having their voices heard nor proper representation in our Republic. And Scary Perry wants to remove voting rights altogether. People said the same things about Reagan's chances at election -- If ONLY Perry or any other GOP/TP candidate were as moderate as Reagan. Yet as we see even here on FR, folks like NJBJ are leaning toward such a candidate. Do not think it's not possible for people to elect someone that crazy (haunting).

Get out the vote. Obama/Biden - 2012!

Well Forrest you have your position, I have mine and we shall see.

All I can say is that on a personal level, my workers seem to be more happy with their jobs, and more sympathetic to my plight as an employer.

Your problem Forrest is the jobs bill is a non starter - with the dems and this Buffett Rule is a joke, plain and simple.

Me, I see Obama's poll numbers hitting the low 30's by November - cause by then there will be no jobs bill, no tax code simplification, and increased unemployment.

How about you Forrest - care to project?

YOU respect Scott Rasmussen's polling outfit, TP?

Really?

Well, sir...

I have new respect for you.

High five.

Put 'er there...

etc.

Whoo their Spanky, how many times during the Republican debate did the bring up Regans name who is idolizing him the liberals or the conservatives. JAS believes in the myth that if you say it three times its true. Only a conservative would believe that. How many times did Regan raise taxes, how many people did Regan put out of work. He is no Saint, he was a lier and a fraud. How many times did he raise the debt ceiling to cover his spending. Come on enough lies.

[All I can say is that on a personal level, my workers seem to be more happy with their jobs, and more sympathetic to my plight as an employer.]

Well, when you are afraid for your job because your boss is a scumbag...well then, yes...I'm sure they seem happy...

...but perception is everything, ain't it, "counselor"?

Spanky: Hey Jas1 - I want to thank you for your comment below about libbies treating their politicians like rock stars. and conservatives as useful idiots.

It has certainly struck a nerve with the Lefties. Only the Left christens their own politicians as "Rock stars". To them Obama is their star. As Amy B says, she'll "Walk over hot coals to vote for Obama". Why? What has he done that's special? You can't reason with people that are that infatuated. Obama is just another career politician playing the same political games other politicians play. He's nothing special, and he proves that truth each and every day.

Side note: You wonder how many bridges we could have built with loss of wealth we've seen in the stock market today.

I beleive I made my projection, if republicans keep playing the "I can name that tune in two notes" game show, if thats all they got for people is tax cuts and deregulation and don't get something acomplished in the way of job creation in the next 13 months, if they stand by and let it get worse, Obama will be found not guilty and the American people will sentence republicans to a hanging with their own rope.

As far as your statement: "All I can say is that on a personal level, my workers seem to be more happy with their jobs, and more sympathetic to my plight as an employer."

Well I know you hire smart educated people, who have a lot of finesse in the courtroom or in out of court negotiations, and just how smart is it for anyone to be too contentious with the boss , because he is the Applesauce.

Uh, Tis - that's my point: great for the situation. Nothing more, nothing less.

It was Amy's comments that kinda brought it home for me JAS1 - could you imagine the though behind walking through hot coals - for a politician? A politician?

Forrest it seems we have an understanding, so all I will say is - times are bad. Really bad and getting worse. People are scared and when scared people tend to be more conservative - in all regards.

It's easy to be a liberal when times are good and food is not an issue. These are not those times. People now understand that 1% pay 39% of all income tax. That is not sustainable.

They also see [thanks to crap like solyndra and all the stimulus waste] that the government sucks at spending money wisely.

But I'll take the applesuace comment. I jjust want to be loved, cause I am a people person.

" Looks like he knows how to create the right atmosphere.

It's a lean, not a firm decision. It's early in the process."

Thanks for the input. Perry. He has some success in Texas, for sure. How much of it came through the gubmint 'stimulus' though?

If a competitior came up with even better numbers for HIS state, because he took even MORE of that gubmint dough, would you lean toward him?

"Side note: You wonder how many bridges we could have built with loss of wealth we've seen in the stock market today."

Don't tell me, let me guess- the loss of wealth in the market today. Obama's fault, right?

Paulson and the Fed.

Europe.

Obama, Boehner and Reid's collective fault for having no plan as the economy flushes.

I love you Spanky, I love everybody, I'm a freaking bleeding heart liberal, I have had surgery and they still can't seem to plug all the damn leaks. While I am still kicking, bleeding heart and all, I would like to roll up my sleeves up and do something, try something, build something, knock something down, whatever it takes, but I don't believe big business is ever going to voluntary pitch in and solve all the problems people are worried sick about, we got to get to work and get things straightened out for ourselves. That don't mean I hate the boss Applesuace, guys like me need those guys, and they need us, working together we probably have a better chance at doing some good for each other. I got go now I need a Band Aid for my heart again.

Mickey and Grump,

You two are on a ROLL! Rock it, gentlemen!

MB -- With that said, DailyKos also ranks higher in accuracy than NBC/WSJ, with Gallup below that. Zogby was better at one time I thought, but currently are not ranked high for accuracy. And it's not so much that Marist has done well, but that Murdoch is ruining the WSJ, and with the phone hacking, etc. has lost credibility -- Well with everyone but FAUX Noise viewers.

Thanks Clara but I'm done for awhile I'm going to take Mrs. Grump out tonight and see if can still rock her world a little bit. See you guys later, way later I hope, not until tomorrow if I'm lucky! Good luck Forrest Break a hip! right! Ha.

tis - it all lies in how the question is phrased. The most informative and least ambiguous poll question I have found is...

"Do you think the country is heading in the right direction" yes, no or undecided

No party affiliated flavor or personalities.

Forrest - take away the net worth of the top richest 400 people in the US and it only amounts to about $1 trillion dollars and all you would have left is 400 more people collecting unemployment, welfare or SS depending on age of course. Don't know about the top 2% of those paying taxes, but I think there will still be a significant shortfall.

I don't want to take their net worth away, I want them to pay at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as I did on my $124,000 income. This will not be fixed in one fell swoop, if that is what you are implying that is silly. Your ideas of reduced taxes and regulations brought this country nothing but trouble, it simply and unquestionably does not spur job growth. If it did we would have ended the Bush years with record low unemployment, that did not happen jobs disappeared at an astonishing rate, we continued with that for three more years now and things got worse. I have no reason to agree with you American 2051576, it does not work the way you wish it to work, there is no evidence that it works, over 14 million unemployed people will verify for you that it does not work. Many corporations pay no taxes at all so how can you further lower their taxes, and more importantly why has that zero tax bill caused them to continue to lay off, where is the hiring, if low taxes spur hiring. There is no hiring because it does not work, it has not worked yet, and it won't, low taxes for the wealthy and corporations does not create customers, it does not put money in the pocket of the consumer. Your theory just causes more layoffs and then more demand for government services to the indigents it creates. It's a fact American that you are wrong, if you were right corporations would be hiring like crazy because their tax liability has never been lower, and it has been this low for over ten years now. Keep preaching that nonsense if you want to but there is zero evidence to back you up and plenty that proves you wrong. According to your theory the laying off of 9,400 government employees should eliminate some burden on the state of Texas and will cause their economy to grow, it won't they will just have 9,400 new people collecting unemployment and food stamps and the small businessmen in Texas just lost another 9,400 paying customers, pretty soon they won't care how low their taxes are because you have to make a sale first then you worry about the taxes later, taxes will soon be the first thing on their list of last things to worry about. Your theories are only a boon to the top executives of multinational corporations, they are killing the middle class and they are devastating to the small businessman who depends on them for his customer base.

"I'm hopeful we snapped out of wanting a President we can share a beer with and have moved towards a President that is wiser and more articulate than Forrest Gump. But who knows."

Is that right AnaB? Huh, cause isn't it Obama who not oly has had several beer summits, but now has the White House brewing its own beer?

And sure Obama is mighty articulate, if only speeches made good policy.

So AnaB - how you liking QE3 so far? Got any money saved up? You were not looking to earn any interest were you?

Spanks,

Thanks for reminding me about the "beer summit". I forgot to mention it. Not only is President Obama wise and articulate but he loves beer also! You have everything in one package. Who wouldn't vote for that? Obama 2012.

Say, how does Beer fit into Michelle's food/health plans?

I take it from your response you are for beer, but against QE3.

See AnaB, I knew we'd find consensus somewhere.

Spanky

A President who is articulate and drinks beer sound like a winner to me instead of a born again ignorant cocaine user. Oh if you bring up the pot, thats fine, I'll take the pot and the beer of the heavy drugs and religious zealotry any day of the week

a born again ignorant cocaine user.

Not a Palin fan, are we?

Drugs are bad Amy.

Except the good drugs.

Obama admits to using blow.

www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/world/americas/24iht-dems.3272493.html

C'mon now, Ana...

No one was more annoying in 2000 than Al Gore.

Astonishingly, he's become even more annoying with the passage of time.

More deranged, too.

It's amazing how many people believe that fallacy that the 2000 election was bought. When will you people wake up from your deluded dreamland? I mean, you liberals really should be given an IQ test before you are allowed to vote anymore...

Makes no matter now, we are where we are. The question is do you think that by cutting their taxes and eliminating regulations and oversight, that rich people, and corporations will voluntarily and suddenly solve unemployment, SS, Medicare, they will flush away the giant debt turd, better educate your children, fix your roads and bridges, and so on. They have never voluntarily done that yet, that much republicans will strangely and self defeatingly will admit, that it is not a corporations function or duty to do that, their function and duty is to generate max profit in a global economy. The two things they claim to believe in most are mutually exclusive. It is going to take money and rules and regulations, and more than anything the will to personally control your own destiny (republicans love that too, they just don't want anybody who belongs to a union to practice it) and make it happen attitude. The free market will not solve any of our problems unless and until we demand it become a part of the solution, until then it is much more the problem rather then the awaited magical solution.

"The question is do you think that by cutting their taxes and eliminating regulations and oversight, that rich people, and corporations will voluntarily and suddenly solve unemployment, SS,....."

Not sure what they think, but it seems to be they think those things will increase demand, somehow- which I heard somewhere is what creates new-hires.

forrest, rather surprised at what you said in 2.10.

There are a tremendous number of hospitals, clinics, shools, libraries, universities, museums, shelters, parks, research companies, private charities, international relief organizations, etc that owe their continuing existance in large part to the wealthy and business contributions. Government can't even come close in contributing the same.

The thing about unions is that in the private sector unions still have to create value and profits for the companies they work for. Public unions have no such constraints until the taxpayers say otherwise.

Industry can handle rules and regulations, but not the uncertainty that comes with not knowing what they will be. Rahm gave obama some good advice on healthcare as reported below...

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Most underrated: Rahm Emanuel. Obama should have listened more to his former chief of staff. For example, Emanuel called for an incremental health-insurance bill, not a three-foot-high comprehensive one. He was ignored, but he was right. Rahm Emanuel, the most underrated category of the year.

http://www.mclaughlin.com/transcript.htm?id=826

In recent comments made by business leaders on bloombergTV. Business was not so much put off by new rules and regs, but by their timing. IE. we are in a weak recovery, spare us these new regs until times are better. I can only wonder what their certainty level was when obama insisted on raising the taxes of both the wealthy and corporations. I am sure also that those with any type of pension, 401k, roth or IRA's looked on his remarks as to the future uncertainty in these investments, which I might add make up an important part an important part of their retirement plans.

You want to talk about uncertainty, how about the republicans stunt with regards to the debt ceiling fiasco, how about the 3rd most powerful representative of the US government making the statement in publiic that giving tax money to the US goverment is like giving a cocaine addict more cocaine. Do you think that kind of talk reassures the markets, do you think that encourages investment in America. Get your republican ducks in a row before you preach about the effects of an atmosphere of uncertainty. Nobody has created more uncertainty in the market and has tried to squelch innovation and new investment in new technologies than the current crop of House republicans and their Speaker of the House. Pitiful leadership, pitiful representation for America, pitiful policy for a nation that wishes to move forward. Germany and China are kicking our ass and it is not because our taxes are to high (many corporations pay zero taxes) and corporations are constrained by too many regulations, Germany has far more regulations, taxes and tariffs than we do, and their workers are better paid, than American workers as well. So are you telling me that the big difference is that the the Germans are just more optimistic, that optimism about the future is the key to their success. No their success is based on tax policies and regulations that protect their business interests and their workers income so the money keeps flowing to and from both.

ah forrest you hit upon the biggy with china and germany. The german government and people supports german business, while we in America don't, depending on the party in power that is. likewise in china where their Politburo ( or what ever they call it) sets long term agendas and goals..

Seems that the US has lost its ability to unite towards prosperity but would rather collapse into selfishness.

What they got in Germany is a lot of taxes, a boat load of regulations, and tariffs, and some socialized medicine, Social Security, and lots of unions, how do you think they got that and why. Wishful Thinking is not a strategy, Patriotism is not a plan, or something like that you say Spanky says. You got to collect those taxes, and regulate commerce to your country's advantage, you got to allow business to be regulated to insure it shares an equitable portion of profits with the population of your country that is what Germany does. You don't support half of that, so how is it going to happen then.

forrest - If what you want is what germany or china has, fine. But good luck in finding eough Americans who want that + pay the price necessary to support it.

Yeh I know spanky and I must be anachronisms of the past where Americans thought it was OK to succeed or fail by our personal decisions and not have government tell us what to do. However there was always a price to pay if you wanted to enter in any societal recognized criminal activity. Actually I can't speak for spanky. But I can say this... ever since the late 50's no one probably ever turned down a tax reduction or loophole offerred by government. Also no politicain ever said to us, "btw, to sustain what we are giving you, you must pay higher taxes"

Are we to blame for not asking the right questions? HECK YES! Are the democrats to blame for not telling us? Heck yes. Are the republicans to blame for not telling us prior to 2010? Heck yes! Is the tea party to blame for not telling us? HECK NO! They warned us all as they became organized in 2009. Are past administrations to blame for not telling us? HECK YES!

Is the current administration screwin' the pooch? BIG TIME! Maybe obama can fool you and others to get votes from you by hiding costs from you. Now many have their eyes open, maybe not 100% open, but open none'the less. Obamas jobs plan and taxing the top 2% and corporations more Is not going to improve the economy within the time line he says and to the degree many hope, but our debt sure will keep going up.

You brought up Germany, do you think the Germans want to keep propping up other nations economies because those countries weren't fiscally responsible? Right now Europe seems to be heading towards recession, If so, we can have a first hand look just at how Germany will handle it as well as obama and company. BTW - whatever lifestyle and social benefits Germany has is because the German people accepted the costs to have them.

Right they have agreed to pay taxes, tax corporations, and heavily regulate corporations, they support all that and more, and rest assured I am far less fooled about what the costs are, than you are fooled by thinking we can have more for less. You do this every time, you agree I am right then turn around and disregard your own words and say I am wrong about taxing corporations, your argument is it works in Germany but it won't work in America only because people like you don't want to pay taxes and won't agree to taxing corporations or the wealthy to pay their share of the the costs. You say the jobs plan will work just not fast enough, how long does your plan take, the Bush tax cuts have been in effect for ten years and things have gotten far worse over those ten years. I am far less fooled than someone who defends zero taxes for many corporations, an effective 15% tax for the wealthy, but probably pays at least 28% themselves, and then claims we should all take personal responsibility. I am not the one being fooled, I am not being unfair either, either we are all in it together equally are we are not, how hard is that for you to understand, they should pay what everybody else pays. I am not the one being fooled and I am not the one that shoots holes in their own argument, but still sticks to the same argument, are you sure you know who is being foolish.

Oh come on and focus - it's getting mighty hard to write anything that is not negative about Obama. Now way, no how, so I'm looking forward to a steady stream of stuff like what Bachmann had for lunch today, something on Ron Paul, and perhaps a nice piece on Perry or Romney's hair.

Solyndra is out of bounds here at MSNBC. So too is gun runner, and QE3, and apparently Reid's heroic efforts to get Obama's jobs bill to the floor.

Only the news "fit" to print.

Hey, Spank- Obama's toast. You haven't heard? Yep. read it right here.

SO, with that behind us, who's gonne create all these jobs, and how are they going to do it.

In 2.5 years or less, of course. Who's your guy (gal)?

Drive By - that's easy.

The private sector. The government doesn't create anything. It has no money with which to create.

All it can do is take from those that produce [cause all it can do is tax income, not wealth] and give to others. I create jobs. Every dollar you take from me is one less I have to create more jobs. From how many people like me does gov. have to take from to hire another employee? Any why do we need so much redundancy in the federal workplace?

And as we continue to see it is not only really bad at choosing winners and losers [I bet even you, having seen Solyndra's business plan could see it had zero chance of success], but it is also totally irresponsible with the money it gets.

Or you cool with them $16 muffins? Or the fact that 1/2 of every dollar spent by government is wasted? see my man these things are inter-related.

My guy s simply ABO.

But tell you what - how about you tell us what Obama has done for you. Get you a job? Increased the strength of your money/you purchasing power? Made it easier on your boss?

Look at the stock market and ask yourself if we'd all be better off if the feds went on a nice long vacay.

But, I love the funny face in the accompanying photo! What an expression! Goes perfectly with the topic of clowns in the Republican primary.

Sorry Spanky the last thing this country needs is more lawyers, that only means our legal system is bloated on itself. Lets just go back to the wild west, you steal from me I shoot you. Then we do not need as many jails, lawyers, drug induced dealth, just 35 cents depending on caliber.

I agree Tis - we sure don't need any more lawyers. I will not permit my sons to go to law school. Personally I could use a plumber and an electrician.

And that's why I like 9mm, $.10-$.15 cents per round in bulk, and I always buy in bulk.

Spanky, you think to small. bulk 9mm is a low grade load, no punch. You need 38 mag to push your thoughts or something like pump action to spread your thoughts out. I agree on the electricians and plumbers ever try to get one on short notice.

Tis - that's what the AK and Mini Ruger [.223] is for.

But it's mighty hard to throw one of them in the glove.

"But tell you what - how about you tell us what Obama has done for you"

See- here's the very fundamental difference between you and I. It's not all about ME.

But- I'd guess there are millons of folks that now are insured might have an idea of what he's done lately. And of course all the US Citizens that are glad Osama will no longer be following us home, now. Or some of those women in the work place that were worried about more parity in that work place.

Oh, but you asked what he's done for ME- I almost forgot. Please refer to the first line above.

Living in L.A. -- You have a point there.

Where are articles about FBI raids in relation to Scott Walker? Or how things are going in Ohio with prop 5? I didn't hear/see anything about the special elections in Nevada and NY until after the elections. After the article on Pennsylvania, where is the follow-up to electoral college machinations in Nebraska? Finally they reported on the Occupy Wall Street protests -- thousands of people were there, and no video.

The GOP/TP primary is so over-hyped. Just highlighting any significant upset, gaffe, or serious attack would suffice. It's like Twitter--now I'm eating breakfast news. "Liberal Media" my arse. The Teabaggers are a minority, but because they're obnoxious they are rewarded with all the media attention? That may explain Turner The Jerry Springer vote. Well, the right-wing riff raff would probably change the subject to some nontroversy anyway.

Spanky-

Say, how does Beer fit into Michelle's food/health plans?

I take it from your response you are for beer, but against QE3.

See AnaB, I knew we'd find consensus somewhere.

Hey Spank(er)

See if you'd been a great American perhaps you too could even have had a Homebrew

with the Prez like this guy.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hbSj6ZCUMiU/TnOCyG24LyI/AAAAAAAAbBQ/QxIvaadg7q4/s220/POTUS%2Bbeergarden.jpg

DBO - yep all that "free" insurance. You know I just figured it out Drive By - you really are the opposite of a "Me First-er." You do ask yourself what you can do for you, rather you look to the government for help.

Interesting. I also suspect that you hold Obama with the same regard you hold a rock star. Again, it is an interesting prism through which you view the world.

But we know there is no such thing as a free lunch, let alone insurance

And Bev. I rarely drink beer, but when I do it's nothing but the best - Natty Light. And at $15.99 for a 30 pack you cannot even make it yourselves cheaper.

That does remind me - it's Thursday. I have been dry since Mexico [god knows my liver needed a break]. Hello Captain Morgan.

Spanky - You said Obama would propose his AJA and the Dow would drop. I owe you a shot - you are a rich $*&%.

You were right about the Dow, but then again I guess Greece's probable default and the markets reaction to the Fed telling the truth about economic doldrums to persist didn't play a factor either.

I gave up hard liquor years ago when my German in laws, out shot me and drank me under the table. Thought I was a big dog, now I stick to Beer.

Beer is too filling. I'm dainty like that.

Before my vacation I was on a strict diet - no coke, just rum. Worked good, until I got to Mexico. Tequila kicks my ass, yet it was free, so what are you gonna do?

Drive by - When each voter enters that booth in nov 2012 the question asked will be "did obama deliver" or "will I be better off with someone new?"

JAS hey catch up with the times its Sept 2011 who cares about Bush and his Poll numbers. Unless that is all you have is the past glory of the Bush era.

Tis - it seems like Obama cares a lot about Bush and his poll numbers.

Spanky why Bush and Chaney never cared about poll numbers they just did as they pleased. Off topic question what are your thoughts on the patriot act and its effects on the American people.

TtS: JAS hey catch up with the times its Sept 2011 who cares about Bush

Obama sure does. Barack keeps blaming him for his problems.

TtS: Unless that is all you have is the past glory of the Bush era.

Barry sure loves his Bush.

I hate the patriot act and am stunned that Obama re-authorized.

Jas1 - too good "Barry loves his bush."

Me, I like a neatly trimmed bush.

Spanky I agree with you on the Patriot act it should not have been re-authorzed but did Obama do that or did the house and senate, did Obama have a vote to cast and everyone has made it more than clear he does not have any influence with the republicans and little with some democrates so who really re-authorized it.

JAS, Spanky as for the bush gutter humor displays alot about a person say like JAS as that is about all you hear from her of course she probably has to buy one to know what it looks and taste like. Oh I just went down to your level sorry about that.

Spanky and Tis-

Oh my...

Now THAT'S an odd couple.

The Patriot Act is something the President and I agree on.

I'm glad he supported its reauthorization.

Aren't most First Readers?

C'mon.

It "takes a village", right?

Oh come on Mixed - me and Tis, You and TruePatriot - just goes to show we are far more alike than we are different.

And I have not even had a drink yet. :)

Coulda fooled me on the Patriot Act, Spank...

Normally you need to pour a lot of booze into me before I agree with the President.

I was stone-cold sober on this call.

I suspect that the President was as well.

I'll bet even Mickey, NY is with me and the President on the Patriot Act.

C'mon, mouse...got my back?

Who is Mickey?

:)

Spank...

Don't you know?

The mouse is one of the Libs R Us gang who scrubbed all of his comments from Newsvine.

Click on his handle here at First Read, and all that's revealed is that the mouse is an "independent voter".

Every one of my Newsvine comments is a matter of record, Spank...yours too!

Mickey deleted his First Read posting record.

Go figure.

And...

That's right...Mickey's profile says he's an "independent voter".

Just like you and me, Spanky!

MB: That's right...Mickey's profile says he's an "independent voter".

I wouldn't doubt that he is an independent. First one to show up with a pack of smokes (menthol's only, he has his standards) and a pint of MD 20/20, the mouse will vote for whoever you tell him to vote for.

Mmmm ....Md 20/20. And Spanks thought Natty light was class. Hell, I remember smoking $15/oz weed (mostly seeds and stems) and drinking Mad Dog. Now, WE had some class back then, we did. (see? I Never WAS cut out to be a "ME Firster'.)

And, dbo...

You haven't deleted the itemized record of everything you've said here at First Read, have you?

Why on earth would you do that?

I can't imagine...

You're a mensch, dbo.

Mixed Bag, the patriot act took the soul of this country and flushed down the drain, anytime you change your life style, freedoms, rights etc. you have surrenders to fear the tool of terrorism they have won. That is the goal of terrorist. Make you afraid enough to alter your life choices. How many rights did you loose to the patriot act, do you really think the TSA makes you more secure while flying, do you accept the body search invasion of privacy, now body scans, body searches of children. All the hype on security is just that its just a cover to make everone feel more secure. How hard is it to cross the canadian or mexico boards. Close one door and leave the big one open. And for this you surrenders most of the bill of rights. No not good.

Thanks, Tis.

President Obama and I disagree with you.

Ya gotta just love free speech and the open exchange of opinions.

Can't speak for the President on that...but, I certainly do, anyway.

Nice chatting with you.

Mixed fiesty did as well. Must not like people getting an idea of what she is truly like. Since her newsvine suspension, I wonder how long it will be before she again can't control her fingers.

I loved Chuck's commerical about telling the American People the facts/truth and that he had an obligation with his access. We are waiting

I sure am June...

So far he's been a epic fail in my book...

Ouch - the old gal goes full on disrespect for Chuck.

It is still his house.

I wonder when it'll be "Fiesty's First Read?"

She still loves Mark, though.

Chuck Todd's likely amused by that infatuation (who wouldn't be?) and makes allowances for Feisty.

Doesn't everyone at First Read?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

So far he's been a epic fail in my book...

That commercial is so laughable.Chuckie loves to bring back those right wing talking points.

Chuckie should stick to the number crunching. Chuckie is good at that. I believe Chuckie can crunch Victoria Secret numbers.

The President is in the turtles and the drunk's district kicking their butts about the 1 in 4 substandard bridges and the Jobs Bill.

Love it

Give 'em hell Barry

Who's Barry?

Isn't calling President Obama "Barry" a violation of the Libs R Us "Code Of Honor"?

I thought it was!

I'd never show the President of the United States that kind of disrespect!

Nor have I.

I guess it's OK now.

Naw.

I don't think so.

JFK

Exactly, we need information on the issues not this continuing Chatting with no facts. Does anyone know what happened in Congress Yesterday, what BIlls were proposed, what bills were passed, the impact either adverse or positive that it has on your Family?

We have got to hold these Political Blogs and TV programs accountable for not just doing the Chatting but bringing us the Facts, the Issues, what's affecting American Families.............................

Otherwise those who don't take the time to get involved and find out about the issues, the positions of those in congress, the impact on your families will once again vote as a low information voter and when that happens we all loose.

Doesn't matter which party affilition, Americans need all the Issues, Facts and potential impact positive or negative on the country and American lives

If we cannot get this information than these Political Shows and Blogs are not Serving Us Well.

Once again Agree with Chuck Todd's commercial and am waiting for what he promised.

The first Blog or Political program who addresses the Issues as we only have a few will find that their viewership will sky rocket.

Currently they think ratings are based on follwoing the competition.

There's that 'C' word again, Bob. So- why do they call themseves 'conservatives'? What do they 'conserve'?

Money.

My money.

Don't be hatin' on Drive - he just doesn't have any of his own to conserve.

[Damn Drive By, sometimes you just make it too damn easy. :)]

I do bet he'd love him one of the $16 muffins.

No Joe & Spanky

Conservatives conserve money? Since when? Where we're these :conservatives" when Bush was in office? Looked to me like they spent every cent they could find and left the tab for Obama to pick up. So if conserving money is like dining and ditching so you don't have to pay the tab, then ok then. I mean your revered Reagan ran up the credit card so much Bush1 had to raise taxes. Clinton creates a surplus, Bush2 decides to start wars w/o paying for them, cuts taxes during wartime, creates a unpaid for prescription drug plan for his pals in Big Pharma, also unpaid for. So the dining and itching reference is quite applicable here wouldn't you say?

The cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq = 4 trillion dollars.

The average pension of a retired teacher in Maine = $19,000 a year.

The Republican's favorite cost cutting target = public school teachers.

Conservatives love war, hate education.

Spanky: I do bet he'd love him one of the $16 muffins

Are those the ones only available by prescription in California?

Might explain the government workers having "Themed Breaks" with their muffins.

And isn't it amazing? The government is now run with all the lavishness just like Enron and Worldcom were. Bernie Ebbers would be so proud, I hope they have the internet at his federal prison so he can read about it.

Hey Amy, thats exactly what my retirement is for my service in the military. Of course who retires at age 45...you still have to work.

Situation:

A computer is about to fail.

Progressive solution: Computers are really important - Allocate as much money as you need to replace it. Let's say $25,000.00.

Conservative solution: Who uses this computer? Is it needed? Was the source that said it was going to fail reliable? If we need to buy a new one, let's get a good deal on one that will work for what it is intended to do and make the person using it more productive. I'm thinking a new Dell workstation might be fine. Budgetary number should be around $1,500.00.

Bob, Republicans are no mystery to me, just an eyesore on the Political landscape with only self interest in their pockets.

JC in G. Yes the conservatives applied that logic to armor for the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, great logic but not in all cases. sometimes you need to pay more to get more.

Tis,

Did the progressives recommend and/or approve spending more money for armor for our servicemen?

And by the way, apples to oranges. I missed that part where I said that we should skimp on protecting our soldiers.

Simply put Obama is setting records in his spending. Nearly $5 trillionin just three short years.

You just cannot aruge with numbers like that.

Tis - too bad all the gov can do is pay more but get less.

Or maybe JAS1 is right and those muffins can from a dispensary.

Drugs are bad Tis.

Democrats are no mystery to me. The believe in a different way to solve our problems. I disagree with their approach in many cases, but we need them around to make sure both sides of the story are heard and considered. If one side, say just an "Eyesore", was in charge of everything with no checks and balances, I don't think we would get fair decisions or compromises. Look what happened when one party had control over both houses and the white house. Unpopular legislation becomes law. Economy in the tank.

JC in G go back to my statement I did not say you said anything about armor but was simply applying the logic you put forward to a different scenario nothing more. And yes the Democrates did authorize more spending for armor in many forms.

Spanky, the Government has never been good on getting is moneys worth not just now and someone in Government always finds $16 muffins or $200.00 toilet seats. Been that way for decades so keep some truth in the Subject besides I have yet to see any President go out and purchase a Toilet seat for the Department of Land Management. So is it really the President doing the spending or the Senate and Congress since they hold the purse strings. The President can not spend a dime unless authorized by those bodies. So it is easy to put the blame for spending on the President since you want to make him the target for those 9mm but it is really the Senate and Congress of both parties you need to put in your sights.

JC inG. Democrates and Republicans have for years put us in this position, but right now the Republican party is clearly more concerned visibly than ever before solely about their power over the people and how to use that power to harm the average person to the benefit of their overlords. Yes the Democrates have to a lesser degree right now overlords but on the face still show a concern for the average person. As to you last statement "Unpopular legislation becomes law, Economy in the tank. Not sure who you are looking at for that since it can be applied to both the Bush admin and the Obama admin. depending on your view. Right now I agree the Obama admin has spent a lot of hard earned money but it at least on the surface is trying to correct the Bush Admin outlandish spending without any attempt to pay for that spending. Obama is at least attempting to pay for his spending and yes that is by raising taxes on those that can most afford it in this economy I do not think you can argue that corporate profits are down right now, just look to the oil industry alone, how many billions per quarter in the last year. Everyone needs to share the blame now everyone needs to fix it, and saying no to everything or stateing your only goal is to make a president a one term president and leaving the rest of the country to fend for itself is not doing their duty as elected. The republicans were elected in 2010 to create jobs, were are those jobs.

To moonbat-shill NBC News , Republicans are a mystery, they barely know any. Conservatives only exist in NBC-land as the evil opponents of wonderful progressives "leaning forward" for their hero Obama.

Somebody refresh my memory...who's that dude in the morning on MSNBC...Jim Scarberry...is that his name?

Tis - remember when Obama said he would go line by line through the budget?

Hell - you remember we we at least had a budget?

But your point is correct - why would we give more $ to an entity that admits it wastes 1/2?

Why would any sane person ever do that, unless forced to?

So Noid when will anyone at MSNBC utter the name Solyndra?

Tis,

"Democrates and Republicans have for years put us in this position, but right now the Republican party is clearly more concerned visibly than ever before solely about their power over the people and how to use that power to harm the average person to the benefit of their overlords."

Step back and take a look at your statement; The Republicans don't want tax increases for the average person. Taking away someones money and possessions is a demonstration of power over them.

The old talking point of the rich not paying their fair share is really getting old. You do understand that we are spending Trillions of dollars more than we take in by taxes. If you took all the "evil rich" possessions, incomes and future incomes, you could not reduce the deficit spending or the increase to the debt by any significant amount. Here is the math:

Deficit spending - About $1,500,000,000,000.00 per year

Available extra income if we tax the rich at 80% $ 320,000,000,000.00 per year

Difference $1,180,000,000,000.00 per year

Yes, this would defiantly piss off the rich by paying an 80% tax and would make the poor feel better that the rich people are now pissed off, but it would not help bottom line financial problem.

If anyone sees some major flaw in my simple math calculation, please let me know what it is. The numbers are paraphrased from many different sources including both conservative and progressive leaning sources.

So what is the purpose of rallying the masses to hate the rich people? Are they really the "Overlords" from some dungeon and dragon type game that want to tie every man woman and child to a big turnstile and beat them with whips?? Is that truly what progressives feel the conservative party is all about?

If you want to fix the debt problem just tell the FED the U.S. no longer needs their services, tell them that the money they have printed is no longer the U.S. currency and replace it with money that our Government prints, pass a law that will forever forbid such a bargain between bankers and the Government to take place again, tell Congress if they ever take another penny from any lobbyist or corporate entity they will face a firing squad, tar and feather all the existing lobbyists, burn down K Street along with Wall Street, start out fresh.

w bush,

I certainly agree in principle with getting the FED out of our money management. The ability to buy congressional votes by lobbyist is a travesty, however, I think there is a need for lobbyist. Take for instance, a corporation that wants to clear cut land on government property to make a profit. A strong environmental lobby that might propose alternatives to clear cutting that would still allow a logging company to make money without devastating the environment could be good and having a congressional representative listen to both sides since they are not logging experts or forestry experts makes sense. If the representative makes financial gain by following either lobbyist's recommendations, hang em high - all of them. Term limits might improve our chances of getting representatives that don't get in bed with a particular industry of advocacy group.

I'm not sure how you do away with Wall street. The ability of the average working man to invest in their future through IRAs and 401ks depends on the availability of investing in corporations; foreign and domestic. Investing in ones own future is a good thing. It allows us to survive unexpected events and circumstances.

JC in G. Nothing is wrong with your math except I have not heard anyone say 80% tax on the rich and increasing tax can be done simply by removing some of the more extreme loop holes. And I believe I have read that the latest suggestion from Obama has both spending cuts some 2 trillion dollars and some increase in revenue. It is at least a start, which is better than the old and tiresome tax cuts for the corporations and rich executives because they create so many jobs right. We have seen the results of this and yet that is the only thing the republicans will accept so who is entrenched here. Also it is not a hate of the rich but they do take advantage of their wealth by buying those tax loopholes for their own benefit. As for your statement about the republicans not wanting to raise the taxes on the average person then why do they not make that distinction in their statements about tax increases why to the leave the impression that the tax increases by Obama are aimed at the average persons and not the rich. Why do they fight to stop tax increases on the rich by telling the average person it is a tax on them. I have heard them make that statement myself with my own ears not from some news organization with their own agenda.

Have you noticed that Democrats are paying more attention to the Republican field than the typical Republican is? Democrats even have their favorites - Huntsman has his Democratic fans as does Ron Paul. But you never see Republicans on here waxing poetic about Perry, Bachmann or Romney. Talk about an "enthusiasm gap!" I would walk over burning coals to vote for President Obama, but would Republicans do the same for their TBD conservative/former Democrat/very odd/flipflopping candidate?

Why that's easy marv and Amy - no reason for me or any one to pick now. Still got a long way to go in the primary race.

Heck at this point can anyone say for certain Obama will even run? As silly as it sounds, I think the probability of that happening increases every day.

And now with his jobs bill getting beaten by so many dems, and with inflation on the way, I'd say we are looking at a solid 10-15% chance.

See guys - you all are stuck, in a figurative and literal sense, with Obama. We are not.

Amy you need to look at the big picture, as per usual you focus is far too narrow.

Oh, and I wouldn't walk over coals for any politicians - that's your unquestioning love for him is a sign of instability. I just hope you don't really mean it, but suspect you really do.

Amy, if Obama is the answer, how stupid was the question?

Amy B: I would walk over burning coals to vote for President Obama,

That's because you liberals look at politicians as your saviors. Conservatives look at politicians as some what useless idiots.

Conservatives look at politicians as some what useless idiots.

Yeah, I'm getting that feeling.

JoAnnaSmith1 -- if conservatives do look at politicians as somewhat useless idiots, it might be because of the "conservative" people who present themselves as candidates (Rep. Bachmann, Gov. Perry, for example). And you missed the fact that some conservative politicians are seen as USEFUL idiots (like Gov. Walker) because they are unable to see how they are used by someone else's pursuit of a selfish agenda.

How are independent or unaffiliated voters supposed to take conservative politicians seriously when their own constituency sees them as "useless"?

kate: How are independent or unaffiliated voters supposed to take conservative politicians seriously when their own constituency sees them as "useless"?

You look at how broke (both economically and functionally) the government is, and you ask yourself how stupid are these people that got us into this mess? 9%+ unemployment, 25 million people out of work or under employed. 1 in 7 on food stamps. 1 in 6 in poverty.

The Democrats solution to the overspending and under performing of the governemnt? Send us more money. The old school Republicans - same answer.

Do you see a savior anywhere kate? We need a do more with less government. And soon.

Time for a change.

" Conservatives look at politicians as some what useless idiots."

So, then, Reagan was a what? Perry?? Bush, (either one)??? Boehner???? Palin?????

Cute post, but does it mean anything?

"Less government" like in Brazil where orphan children huff drugs to escape the misery of living on a garbage dump? "Less government" like in Mexico, where the drug gangs kill police with impunity, and mayors, and judges are unprotected from the criminal element?

or "more efficient" government, like in Europe, where literacy is high, people aren't sleeping under bridges, and you don't have to be wealthy to get healthcare?

Hmmm, I leaning towards the "more efficient government" model.

"Less government" like in Brazil where orphan children huff drugs to escape the misery of living on a garbage dump?

Which is different from the 31 homicides this month, so far, in Chicago: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/

Which is different from the 209 homicides so far in New York City? http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

No misery there, right Amy?

It's not clear what you're trying to prove Amy. It appears that you think more government will solve more problems. The country doesn't see too many problems being solved, at least not by the government Amy.

Amy: or "more efficient" government, like in Europe

You do realize Europe is on the brink of economic collapse, correct Amy? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/IMF-World-economy-enters-apf-1240337037.html?x=0

JoAnna you are making this too easy. The conservatives see politicians as useless idiots -- and yes, George W. Bush fits that description and he DID get us into this mess. I am asking a serious question -- IF conservatives DO see politicians that way (as you suggest), is it because that is the caliber of people presented to us as "conservatives?" Would you dare to name a conservative politician who is NOT a useless idiot?

JoannaSmith

Contrast the situations in Japan and Haiti following national disasters and tell me how "less government" and "politicians are useless idiots" translates into reality when the survival of a nation is on the line.

Europe has it debt problems, and India is growing, but I'm sure I'd rather live in Paris than Calcutta.

You are blinded to the reality of the world by your ideology. Or, perhaps it's your location, I dunno. I've seen many positive politicians make a difference in my state and country over the years, including Governors Angus King and Baldacci, Senators Ed Muskie and George Mitchell. Not all politicians are useless or stupid. But I think it's safe to say, all useless politicians are Republican.

kate - IF conservatives DO see politicians that way (as you suggest), is it because that is the caliber of people presented to us as "conservatives.

You're making this too easy kate. What do you see the Democrats as kate? Saviors? The people with the answers? The people taking good care of the People's money and collecting it fairly and spending it wisely?

Yeah, me neither. Goes for the Republicans too. They're the same caliber of people. Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi are the same caliber as John Boehner and Mitch McConnell. Too many years at the job, too few successes.

And as for George Bush, you call him a useless idiot, but yet Obama has the same policies as Bush. You apparently can't see the trees for the forest kate. Maybe time to wipe the stars from your eyes and see Obama for what he is.

You think these Democrats are your saviors kate. They aren't.

Wow, JoannaSmith1, at least you're honest. Apparently the "New Republican direction" is towards cynicism and despair.

Looks like the Republican bumperstickers in 2012 be: "Surrender Dorothy" and "I'd turn back now if I were you!"

Amy B: I would walk over burning coals to vote for President Obama,

Amy B: You are blinded to the reality of the world by your ideology.

Amy, your ideology is certainly an infatuation that cannot be reasoned with.

Amy Europe has the bad kind of "Socialism" that benefits everyone, America has the good kind of "Socialism" where everyone is expected to pay for the wealthy’s failures but only the wealthy keep any profits, that’s what the "compassionate conservative" leaders say anyway.

JAS neither can your infatuation with yourself be reasoned with. You stumble all over yourself, the Republicans and Tparty. No politician is a savior so stop trying to convince everyone they are. Obama is a human like you, well ok your humanity is in question but you get the point. I also do not see how Obama's policies are identical to Bush's. Obama has at least agreed to spending cuts maybe not the ones you want but who says your are our savior and correct. Try something constructive rather than just criticize or is it just easier to be ignorant.

w bush: Amy Europe has the bad kind of "Socialism"

Like 20%+ unemployment in Spain? You mean like Italy, the worlds 7th larget economy, going under? That makes little Greece's problems seem like North Dakota going under to us here in the US.

Portugal and Ireland? Not so good either.

All of Europe promised too many benefits with too little money to back it up. Sound familar?

It's a real drag when you run out of people to tax to run a government, just not enough rich people paying in to cover the interest payments I guess. Europe is seeing that first hand.

That the kind of socialism you like w bush?

Amy - god knows I love you, but come on.

You have to stop holding up Europe. It is over, done, kaput.

You have to understand that, and more importantly why.

politicians, by their very nature are at best useful idiots and at worst, well we have all lived it on both sides.

I would love picking random people out of the phone book every 4 years for all Congressional positions.

Let's face it we'd couldn't be worse off.

Hell Joanna we have better than 20% "real" unemployment right here in the failed Capitalist experiment known as the good ol' U.S.of A, so what's your point exactly?

w bush: Hell Joanna we have better than 20% "real" unemployment right here in the failed Capitalist experiment known as the good ol' U.S.of A, so what's your point exactly?

So you don't like capitalism. You see the results of the socialism. Anarchy the next thing for you try bush?

We see the results of an inconclusive government in the US bush. It can't tell us what people will be taxed on and for what. It can't tell businesses what they'll owe, so their not building or hiring. We have a government that plans 2 weeks in advance, just like the CR that just failed in the House was trying to do. We see tax breaks for one year, or maybe two, not much for businesses to go on if they want to implement their 5-10 year plans. We also see the country giving out more social programs like ObamaCare when it can't even pay for the existing social programs like SS or Medicare.

So the point is that we're not quite as socialistic as Europe, but we're heading in that direction on a high speed train. A smart politician would recognize that fact. A dumb one would be doing what Obama is doing.

What's say we go borrow some money and build us some bridges bush? It will be fun, and it is the road to prosperity.

C-C- and uhhhh C, now you can post how100% of respondents feel about Washington. That is a good indicator for a poll right? Kind of like asking 1000 people to represent 3.35 Million

Agreed...they are both guilty. However, if you were to ask who is better suited to help us recover instead of widen the income and achievement gaps, my money is on the democratic ticket. It seems they at least attempt to pass legislation that helps a majority of America instead of the "everyone lives their own lot" coming from many consevatives. On principle, limited government and wise money use is a good idea, but all we hear about now is "eliminate government" and "cut, cut, cut". I would dare an independent research firm to go into both parties and analyze spending and wasted money on "policy"...I bet the results would call out a lot of hypocrites. Spanky in 3...2...1...

SteveYo-2559836

You had me at;

"Agreed...they are both guilty."

C. C. Crying.

SteveYo - I think JAS1 hit the nail on the head in comment #8.4.

Policiy and control is why we will never get a flat tax - from either side, cause in reality they are one side, we are another.

Spanker, using anything JAS1 posted trying to sway someone’s opinion may prove counterproductive.

Ya, and I don't see how that is a "point".

"That's because you liberals look at politicians as your saviors. Conservatives look at politicians as some what useless idiots."

So then she could at least admit that her "side" as equally useless idiots. Finally, some common ground.

However, these people are elected to govern the nation and elected by representatives (although never enough) of this nation. So, they have a job to do. Useless idiots or not, I don't want them to save me, I just want them to look out for people (in help and hindrance) that may not be as responsible, intelligent or fortunate as me. If that means I pay more in taxes so that I don't pay more in premiums, so be it. If that means I pay more in taxes so the kid down the street isn't a bigger idiot than he already acts so be it. I, however, do not enjoy paying taxes when I stil drive on busted roads, work in a delapidated school or have one less firefighter on the truck because some Lexus driving tight-as s can have a Vente instead of a Grande at Starbucks.

Easy then SteveYo - then just pay more. You, Buffett, heck all the libbies show just pay more.

Yet oddly they refuse until they are compelled.

You taxes are high cause the government wastes what it already has. $5000 hammers, toilet seats and muffins.

It all comes down to OPM.

Other People's Money. Super easy to spend without a care, cause it ain't your own.

The Lexus drive earned the money he used to buy the Lexus. Nothing wrong with that. The government took the money it used to buy the $14 muffin.

You thing the Lexus guy would ever waste that kind of scratch? Would you?

Of course not, only the government.

w bush: Spanker, using anything JAS1 posted trying to sway someone’s opinion may prove counterproductive.

Sway your opinion? That's not the goal. Anyone that is tied in with people that will "walk over burning coals to vote for Obama" is simply another lost soul on Liberal Island. What's interesing is your reaction to the statement politicans are all just useful/useless idiots. Obama was The One for the Extreme Left, still is in fact. He can do no wrong, and if something fails, as most things have, it's always someone else that is to blame. As DBO says, Obama just needs more time for his plans to work. But that's why we have elections 4 years for the position. When things are just not working, it's time to move on from the one that claimed to be the solution, but ended up being a bigger problem.

Obama is no Rock Star. He is no savior. He's more the third term of Bush, except he just spends it faster.

You are conflating ideas marv.

I have not made a choice. Only a fool would make a choice without all the facts and as much information as possible.

Go back and read JAS1's post above.

But I wonder, what is my bravery to you? Can you tell me why I must make a choice right now?

Give it a shot.

"Can you tell me why I must make a choice right now?"

Maybe he meant 'tentative' choice. You know- based on what you've heard in 2 different debats and in countless news stories and on their campaign trails. We won't hold you to it if someone else comes along later with better ideas and solutions, and you go with THEM.

No wait- forget about the indviduals, then- give us some examples of the ideas and solutions you think will reverse the situation in a time frame of, say, 2.5 years. (oh, and don't forget- they have to work in the face of record-setting uses of things like filibusters....)

The Deficit. The Unemployement rate. You know- just the big stuff. You can do it. We know you can.

How many times DBO?

Cut taxes and regulation and get the government out of my office. Implement a flat tax, and end all wars. Put the army at the border and jail any CEO who hires an illegal alien. Also any company hiring an illegal automatically loses it's business license.

Tomorrow implement a total tax holiday for the remainder of the year. And then implement a balance budget i.e. it spends not one dime more than it brings in.

Too bad I'm not king, right. Oh and for my buddy Mixed - end the Patriot Act, and execute everyone at GITMO, then close it down.

As to a choice - what difference does it make? Again this must go back to your libbie "rock star" thing-y. The primary will pick for me, and everyone else. Who I want does not matter.

ABO

"Cut taxes and regulation and get the government out of my office."

Cut taxes like Reagan did? Which regulations has Obmam put in place since he took office?

I was just hopin' that when you criticize others' choices, you might offer a suggestion for an alternative. But all of the sudden, we agree! "Who you want does not matter"....

driveby - virtually every bill signed into law by obama has regulations attached to it. regulations that often take up more pages than what the original legislation had.

True for any POTUS past, present or future.

Marv - surely you don't mean like all the FR libs do when they criticize, do you?

Actually, w bush-

Marist College has a reputable polling operation.

I doubt that they'll be hurt by the association with NBC News.

President Obama survived Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright, didn't he?

Like you...I'll be watching, though.

seems to be more for tracking GOP opinions.

The NBC News/Marist Poll will gauge public opinion throughout this fall in key Republican primary and caucus states and track the campaign for the Republican nomination next spring.

Arlin,

Your assumption is that the Republicans have not passed a job bill is based on your belief that a jobs bill must include the government taking tax dollars and spending it on workers wages. You are correct that the Republicans are not going to do this. If you believe that the Republicans are trying to create an environment where industries can hire additional workers, as I do, then they have passed plenty of bills that have been stopped, stalled and/or neglected in the Senate.

I would reelect any of the republicans and democrats that have tried to help correct the current environment without simply taking tax money and giving it to people that don't have jobs. That is unsustainable.

...and FOX News polls...they're unbiased?

Da Noid,

I don't generally follow specific polls, I follow averages. Take a look at RealClearPolitics.com, they do an average of several polls at a time, one of which is for presidential approval. Over the last three months, the Fox News poll has consistently shown one of the least unfavorable ratings for President Obama, both in terms of net negatives, and in terms of lowest disapproval rating. Seems like an odd way to say it, but it appears as though Fox is the least biased poll based upon President Obama's ratings.