Obama has decided to make his base - the true liberals- happy. It's of course his call, and frankly there are naught else he can make happy at this point anyway, so more power to him.

Problem is, as has always been the problem with liberals is they are few. By last count liberals account for about 11%. That's not nearly enough to carry anything anywhere.

And the reality of what Obama has wrought upon himself, and the country is evident here ate First Read. So few Libbies left. So many conservatives now.

I remember back in late '08 and into and through '09 - this place was easily 30 to 1 libbies v. conservatives. JAS1, NOJO and others have been battling long and hard.

Yet now it's Fiesty, Bev., Navy [Blackhouse is it?] and a few other die hards. All the rest have given up and gone away.

And just look at the discussions - all about taxes, deficits and cutting the debt. These are not the conversations libbies want, nor can stand to have.

Obama is done, Buffet and his dumbass tax is a joke. Just ask AP and it's fact check.

Oh and golly but I'd actually like to see the Buffet rule. Anybody got a copy? Of course not - it's from Obama so it's not real, just a "broad concept."

Cause rule by "broad consept" has worked so well. OR, do we need to pass the Buffet tax to see what's in it?

Interesting food for thought... take the time to read it and THEN try to refute it...

From today's Gartman Letter...

COMMENTS ON THE CAPITAL MARKETS HE IS A DANGEROUS MAN:

We are not talking here this morning about President Obama, although we do indeed consider him to be a very dangerous man given his far left-of-centre orientation and the damage he has done and may continue to do to the capitalist system here in the US that has produced more goods and services and products than any society in the history of man. No, we are talking here this morning about the “Sage of Omaha,” Mr. Warren Buffett, whose position on taxes we think is so utterly wrong; so terribly ill-advised and so dangerous that we think someone has to try to stem the tide of higher taxes that he’s put into effect before new laws created in his name are enacted. He has given President Obama cover from the “left” to push for higher taxes and to “paint” the supposed wealthy in the US with a paint brush of populism that we think should be utterly repugnant but which when sponsored by Mr. Buffett takes on the patina of respectability. The President went on national television yesterday to tout his new jobs program and the new tax legislation he wants enacted. He said, using his best rhetorical talents… and they are many…

“This continues to be a time of challenge for our country. We face an economic crisis that has left millions of our neighbors jobless, and a political crisis that has made things worse. Millions of Americans are looking for work. Across our country, families are doing their best just to scrape by -- giving up nights out with the family to save on gas or make the mortgage, or postponing retirement to send a child to college. These men and women grew up with faith in an America where hard work and responsibility paid off. They believed in a country where everyone gets a fair shake and does their fair share; they believed that if you worked hard and played by the rules, you would be rewarded with a decent salary and good benefits. If you did the right thing, you could make it in America.

For decades now, Americans have watched that compact erode. They have seen the decks too often stacked against them. And they know that Washington has not always put their interests first. Too often, our Nation's capital has been consumed by partisanship. Too often, the needs of special interests or politics have been put ahead of what is best for the country. That is what must change.”

This was amazing rhetoric. How can anyone not see the wonder the beauty of what the President was presenting? But what he was presenting was a flawed notion that those in the upper income brackets do not pay “Their fare share” of the taxes in the US, when the facts are exactly the opposite. The President has lied and he has lied openly when he tells the American people that those in the upper income brackets pay less than those below when in fact the IRS own data tables prove that the President has lied. The table included this page, from the IRS and courtesy of our friend Dr. Mark Perry, shows very, very clearly that the income tax in the US is not only progressive, it is sharply so. Mr. Buffett tells us that he pays taxes at a lower rate than does his secretary and that may well be correct, but according to the IRS, those earning more than $10 million/year paid in 26.3% of their income in income taxes and that is a rate more than double that of those in the $75-$100 thousand income level. If Mr. Buffett pays income taxes at a rate less than his secretary he has excellent accountants and lawyers doing marvelous work to make certain that he pays less income, but clearly this is not the fault of the tax regime or the tax rates. Indeed, in Mr. Buffett’s case, he pays a smaller percentage of his income in the way of taxes than does his secretary because of a peculiarity of the tax law that allows his to “carry” income that might otherwise be “earned” as “capital gains” instead. Mr. Buffett gave the President cover for his far-left-of-centre tax ideas when Mr. Buffett wrote his now infamous op/ed to The New York Times several weeks ago when he said

"...Blessings are showered upon [the super-rich] by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places. Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent. My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."

This letter inspired The President yesterday to say that

“Middle class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires. That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that. Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There’s no justification for it.”

However, as Dr. Perry so admirably notes, the facts are at odds with what the President is saying, under Mr. Buffett’s “cover.” As Dr. Perry notes…

1. The U.S. federal income tax system is highly progressive (as it's intended to be, and not regressive as Buffett wants us to believe from his "analysis" of his and his employees' tax rates) and higher income groups pay taxes at a higher rate on average, as a share of their taxable income, from a low of 6.8% on incomes between $10,000-$15,000 to a high of 29.7% for incomes between $2,000,000-$5,000,000.

2. For federal income taxes, most secretaries would probably be paying an average federal tax rate of 9-12%, and most of the "super-rich" bosses with incomes of $200,000 or more would be paying average federal income tax rates about three times higher than their secretarial staff members, i.e. 25% or higher.

3. Even if we account for payroll taxes… Buffett's tax analysis still doesn't make sense. Most "super-rich" taxpayers are paying federal taxes (income, payroll, corporate and excise) at a rate of 25-30% of their income (much higher than Buffett's 17.4%), and the middle-quintile and second-highest quintile groups are paying average tax rates of only 14%-17% (about half of the 33-41% Buffett's employees are paying, assuming they fall in those income groups).

Note then the “chart” at the upper left of p.1 which is a simplified chart of what Dr. Perry is arguing here. The “Rich” pay more than their fair share. From other data we note that the top 1% of the nation’s wage earners earned 19.4% of the income in the country BUT they paid 28.1% of all of the taxes. Fifteen years ago, this same group earned 11.2% of the income but paid in only 16.2% of the total taxes. Further, the bottom 50% of the income earners here paid in barely 2% of the total taxes. As George Bernard Shaw… a noted Socialist by the way as a member of the Fabian Society… once said, “A Government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul’s support.” Mr. Buffett has given President Obama the “cover” to rob the nation’s most productive citizens, painting them as tax cheaters and tax dodgers when instead they are the greatest payers of taxes by the IRS’s own statistics. The President lied and Mr. Buffett has given him cover to continue to do so. Someone has to take Mr. Buffett to task; it might as well be TGL.

Basically... he is calling BOTH Mr. Buffet and Mr. Obama... a liar! Checkout the IRS site and look a the numbers... on average the richest in America are paying WAY MORE THAN THEIR SHARE!

Source for Mr. Gartman's tax numbers comes from the IRS site itself...

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=134951,00.html

Spanky,

I have been posting on this board since it was opened to the public. No doubt my first posts were complaints about First Read replacing Eric Alterman's liberal blog, Altercation.

There have been rightwingers who have come and gone (remember Jerry, Corpus Christi?) But I'm still here, and getting more liberal by the minute. Your characterization of conservatives as "winning" (shades of Charlie Sheen) is simply wishful thinking. You're not winning, you're just keeping busy.

Seems to me that a little while ago the FR lefty liberals couldn't get enough of David Brooks because he was criticizing the Republican's on the debt deal. They kept pointing out how credible his criticism was because he was a "conservative". I don't expect very many of them will be here today praising his latest thoughts.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Republicans walked away from the "Grand Bargain"? Just what "Grand Bargain" did the Republicans walk away from? Recall that Obama said he "put entitlements on the table" during Debt Ceiling debate. Does anyone even know what that meant? Was their a paper, a document, a napkin, anything, something that was written down that showed exactly what was "on the table"? Liberals never even said a word about their precious entitlements alledgedly being bargained away by Obama , they knew Obama was just posing.

Of course Obama never put "entitlements on the table". It was just more propaganda from him so he could talk about something in his now daily speeches to the masses.

What Obama is about is being a populist. He loves to talk about how wonderful he is, while playing segments of society off against each other, ie., the current class warfare he keeps fanning the flames over. His tax increase policy are nothing new, liberals have used the "rich" as whipping boys forever, and increasing taxes on them has never made life better for the people like Obama pretends to represent. Obama could give a crap about the generational poor. What he does care dearly about is getting the generational poor to think that he is their best friend in the world and that they should vote for him next year.

Obama is all about Obama.

Amy - I'm sure you have been here a long time.

So clearly you can see that from a pure numbers perspective, the libbie view of the world has greatly diminished.

As far as politics - just look at the stories driving the day. Tax rates, budgets and deficits are not what Obama got elected to deal with.

In fact look back at his '08 platform. These are not his issues. They are ours.

The "Buffett Rule" is based upon flawed, anecdotal evidence; National data shows that the "Super-Rich" pay average tax rates 2-3 Times HIGHER than a secretary.

SO... WHAT IS A FAIR SHARE?

Adjusted Gross Income 2009 : Ave. Federal Income Tax Rate (%)

$10,000 - $15,000 : 6.8%

$15,000 - $20,000 : 6.6%

$20,000 - $25,000 : 8.7%

$25,000 - $30,000 : 9.7%

$30,000 - $40,000 : 10.0%

$40,000 - $50,000 : 10.6%

$50,000 - $75,000 : 11.6%

$75,000 - $100,000 : 12.3%

$100,000 - $200,000 : 16.3%

$200,000 - $500,000 : 24.6%

$500,000 - $1,000,000 : 28.8%

$1,000,000 - $1,500,000 : 29.4%

$1,500,000 - $2,000,000 : 29.6%

$2,000,000 - $5,000,000 : 29.7%

$5,000,000 - $10,000,000 : 29.1%

$10,000,000 or more : 26.3%

AVERAGE: 17.8%

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Source: IRS Publications 1304 for 2009 Table 1.1

The Libs are certai ly in a bind. Taxes and deficits instead of Gay Marriage and Abortion. No wonder they have gone around the bend.

Me, I like it. It is such fun watching Libs try to talk about taxes and tax laws.

Glad you are enjoying it, because the fun is just beginning, the party is just getting started, lots of young people have decided to crash the party and join in on the fun, they want to have a good time too.

Forrest, do you mean all those young people who didn't know who Osama Bin Laden was?

Those kids have seen what this administration has done to their parents. I wouldn't count to much on them coming out for another "Historic" election. But hey, there is always "Hope".

Where are all the usual LOUDMOUTHS today?

Facts got their tongues?

SOTB -

My guess is that one of them got banned for the day and the rest are staying away in a show of solidarity.

I'm sure they are either walking the pavement in protest or drowning their sorrows at their imaginary bar.

Oh would you look at that 9,400 government employees from the state of Texas just left the crappy party where they were ignored and insulted and they are coming over to join in on the fun.

WCA.... That is HILARIOUS!

SOTB: Where are all the usual LOUDMOUTHS today

Suspended.

Nice to have Navy, ehh, Backhouse back though.

I'm sure they are either walking the pavement in protest or drowning their sorrows at their imaginary bar.

It's kind of sad really, them sitting their all alone with bottle of cheap whisky, IMing each other, saying how much they hate Bush , take another swig, repeat.

I'll agree WAC many young people are not aware of things they probably should be for their own good. They don't know who Rick Perry is, or Michele Bachmann, they certainly don't have a clue who Jon Huntsman, and Hermann Cain is, but I guarantee you they know who Barrack Obama is and they know who Ron Paul is. I'll bet you a ham sandwich they know who those two guys are.

"I remember back in late '08 and into and through '09 - this place was easily 30 to 1 libbies v. conservatives. JAS1, NOJO and others have been battling long and hard.

Yet now it's Fiesty, Bev., Navy [Blackhouse is it?] and a few other die hards. All the rest have given up and gone away."

Sorry, Spanky, I haven't given up and I haven't gone away. For the time being, I'm juggling a number of personal crises. I'm exhausted and worried sick and barely coping with the new realities of my daily life. Most days I wish I actually COULD just give up and go away somewhere. I can't.

But that has nothing to do with politics. Or you or NoJoe or JAS1. You seriously call their daily litany of the same tired old "I hate Obama" re-treads "working long and hard"? None of you have a clue what that really means.

And other than CA in Tuscaloosa who I used to enjoy reading, I can't think of another long-time liberal poster here who's gone anywhere, and I see new ones showing up every day. FYI, Backhouse isn't Navy. Their writing styles aren't even similar. That would be like saying that you or JoAnna are really Madison, NY. Oh. Wait a minute......

Well Forrest you are probably right, young people do know the names Barrack Obama and Ron Paul.

Too bad neither has a shot at winning the next election. They will, I guess, either come to admire or despise the GOP winner and next President. Only time will tell.

I'm not gone or going anywhere from this blog, either. You have fourteen months to unwedge and rewedge your shorts,...I'm in no hurry to help you along.

And Backhouse is NOT Navy,...Navy is on assignment.

And at least we have FRIENDS,...your pathetic attempts to denigrate that is only fuel for our fire.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PS. Joe Albany - made some amazing wild Coho Sunday and just finished the remnants on my salad for lunch. Yummo! (Do you even have a Costco in that bastion of conservatism - central New York?)

You act like they don't have a say in this, that they will not vote. I'm betting they will vote, and the ones who are going to vote for Ron Paul will vote for him, they don't care who the nominee is they will write his name in if his name is not on the republican ballot. if you read some of the posts on FR lately it is not just all young conservatives either, that is a lot less Obama's problem than it is Rick Perry's problem.

Spanky - speakimng about radical liberals/progressive, notice the silence from mo and fiesty?

[You're not winning, you're just keeping busy.]

Spanky is FR's Charlie Sheen...ain't that right, "counselor".

..."cause winning is more good-erer than losing"...

When Brooks writes: "...I still believe in the governing style Obama talked about in 2008. I may be the last one. I'm a sap." he's supporting what President Obama has said: "I am an eternal optimist, [but] that doesn't mean I'm a sap," (this is no doubt is lost on low-information voters and conservative posters in this thread who are unable to stay germane to the topic).

So whereas the president is more concerned with the ends and not the means, Teapublicans continue to be uncompromising as their 'means' because the 'ends' is to defeat the president even if the American people are thrown under the bus. The American people have seen Teapublicans slap away the olive branch enough times now--and it's been multiple times--to support the president in getting tough.

The Teapublicans keep asking for numbers, and assurance of where the money goes, which was never sincere. But nonetheless it has all been presented to them, all along, in various forms from Jan Schakowsky tax plan, to the American Jobs Act, to the president's Deficit Reduction Plan. There it it is, all the numbers and the hows and wheres and whys, and all the Teapublicans can do is complain that it's too lengthy.

So far independent economic analysts asupport the jobs plan, estimating that it will increase the GDP by 1.3 to 2 percent, that it will decrease unmployment by a point and maybe more, and it will provide the average family $1,500 in tax cuts to create more consumption (demand). The deficit reduction plan is also supported by historic data in which higher tax rates or more importantly a larger tax base that is fairer actually results in a stronger economy, not the other way around.

In preparation for the Do Nothing Republicans in congress and their predictable obstructionism and "my way or the highway" take and not give tactics, the president has preempted them by drawing lines in the sand, naming names, and taking it to the American people, to the Teapublican's own back yards across the nation. And the majority of Americans stand behind the president in this quest, as all the polls show.

You'll note the conservatives in this thread (or elsewhere) do not address these FACTS, but instead try to throw so much sh!t at the wall in hopes something will stick. Enough!

hmmmm TP, many times in the past Americans (L&R) never bought off on the idea that the "end always justified the means". Even hindsight always suggests that other alternatives existed.

I may be going out on a limb here but your stupidity and complete lack of common sense just shows everyone what a complete idiot and moron you are, You know nothing about politics, interpersonal relationships, economics or common sense! In short go back to your little corner and STFU.

Ok TP, Be truthfull now (if you can). If I now offerred you an olive branch would your first inclination be to accept it or slap it away? Don't make me call you a liar as well to elicit a truthfull answer.

Get the picture TP. heck of a deal to invite the right to his (obamas) budget plan 2.0 and then rip the houses plan as being totally unacceptable. That is just one instance among several.

BTW - I occasionally watch obamas speaches as well. Body language often negates what rhetoric and the written word says.

I certainly beg to differ that most Americans are or will now vote far right conservative. The far right GOP/TP has done immeasurable damage to their image. Even many people with moderate conservative views like myself will not vote for the right wing GOP/TP. They have pushed me and many others to vote Democrat more than ever this coming election. If there was any doubt, their behavior and lack of leadership has removed it. I don't like to vote straight ticket, but I am just about there with all of the hypocrisy, hate and unwillingess of the Reps to put the American people over politics. They are not reaching out to people like me. Their obstruction will not be rewarded with my vote, even though I share many conservative views.

I look at Perry and I shudder...have you read his book? (and I am a Christian). Romney not as bad, however, my issue is with the Rep/TP as a whole. What will they "pressure" a Rep POTUS to do if they are in power??? Scary thought!

The right wing has moved so far from the reality of mainstream America and they frankly care more about their ideology than how it impacts Americans today in real life.

Ah, so the new talking point is to claim the analysis is flawed and the wealthy elites actually pay a higher effective tax rate than the middle class.

Who collected Buffett's check for $1,000,000 by showing that they pay a higher effective tax rate than his/her secretary?

american -- Just provide a straight answers to direct questions already. Your ad hominem attacks in lieu of substance only show your true colors and inability to deal with facts.

And why would any of you right-wingers think progressives or more moderate Americans are going away, especially from their own turf. You are trespassing, so how about you take a hike back to FAUX Noise or WorldNetDaily or what ever rock you climbed out from under? And don't let the door hit ya in the arse on your way out.

Spanky: In fact look back at his '08 platform. These are not his issues. They are ours.

That's what we've been trying to tell you.

If they are your issues, why are you so against them?

Trying to have things both ways again? Or were you for them before you were against them? Or do you just hate them because Obama is in favor of them? Or do you just hate Obama?

[Trying to have things both ways again?]

Hmm....maybe...

[Or were you for them before you were against them?]

..you're getting warmer...

[Or do you just hate them because Obama is in favor of them?]

...warmer, still...

[Or do you just hate Obama?]

BINGO!

Speaking of flip flps Amy, perhaps you can explain how it is that Obama said very clearly in 2010: "we cannot raise taxes in a recession" yet now seeks to do that very thing?

He was clearly against raising taxes before he was for it.

Would you consider that a flip flop?

"He was clearly against raising taxes before he was for it.

Would you consider that a flip flop?"

OK.

SO- whatta you going to do about it, 'counselor'? Whine on this board every day until Obama gets re elected in '12?

Enjoy yaself, sport.

Nice contribution there Instigator!

LOL!

I know you are but what am I! (Grow up!)

Look at the context in which Obama said about rasing taxes, he was not talking about closing the loop holes or letting the "W" tax cuts expire. Both of those things he's been saying since 2008 and has never faltered. When you use a quote to make a point be sure to use it in context. To understand what the conservative fight is all about, look up "Starve the Beast" and you will find the true reason the Conservative leadership has led all you followers against any revenue increase. Do your homework and think for yourself.

T webb, we do think for ourselves and we do understand the effcets of uncontrolled spending. We don't ignore the fact that both sides partook in wanton spending.

Consider this, there has never been an economist or politician that has successfully predicted, aborted or created any given plan to effectively do anything to avoid recessions or get us out of one. NONE! and hindsite or armchair quarterbacking is not an answer.

I must say that Starving the beast would be a very effective plan. As our debt rises and we lose creditors, I am sure that many would have prefered the starve the beast scenario over reality.

No one doubts that revenues need to increase, but given the politicians propensity to look at increasing revenues as a sign to keep on spending, I would rather see the wanton habit of spending be drastically decreased before revenue increases, but that is just me thinking for myself and looking down the road. Pessimistic perhaps on my part but looking at the expanding global markets it is more like one oh reality.

Forrest - are we in a recession right now?

If so why would Obama want to raise taxes now, when he said it would ba a bad idea just 10 months ago?

Nice and reasonable, or pandering?

"Nice and reasonable, or pandering?"

Pandering.

As in, trying to do what the MAJORITY of Americans are polled as wanting. Remember the ol' 'representative' form of government thing-y?

He is pandering, he is pandering his ass off, he is pandering to me, I really love it, I don't get pandered to very often, it feels like years since I have been pandered too, It just feels great. Oh yeah baby that feels good, right there, that's the spot, pander to me baby, oh I love it when you pander to me like this, don't ever wait so long to pander to me again. Ha I love me some pandering when I am on the receiving end for a change, right Spanky, hell I'll trade you a Forrest gone wild DVD (pandering edition) for one of those Spanky Gone wild (tea party edition) DVD's.

Just because you are telling people what they want to hear does not mean you are pandering. When you speak the truth and people like it, because they know it is the truth, and they appreciate the truth, even though some other people will ridicule it as pandering, that is not pandering, that is called leading, leading from the front. Right Spanky. Sticking your chin right out there, put your ass and the other guys ass right on the line about what happens next, I'm done with this BS so come what may, one of us is gonna get our ass kicked, good old fashioned leading from the from the front. I know you don't like it when Obama lead from behind, and frankly neither did I.

drive by - what the majority of Americans want?? Don't you mean, "make someone else pay, just not me"?

Puhleeze forrest, speak the truth? If obama wanted to speak the truth he would tell america that revenue would be greatly increased by allowing all of his (bush) tax cuts to expire in 2013 something to the tune of $3.5 trillion. rather than a measley $800 billion. (ver ten years of course for both.

Even proclamations of a balanced approach, shared sacrifice and fairness would be less of chicanery if obama did so.

I agree American all the bush tax cuts should expire and loopholes closed, more and more people everyday believe the truth is that a balanced approach would be to cut wasteful spending and raise revenue. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is sounding less balanced to more and more people everyday that republicans ignore the fact that you can't solve the problems they pretend to be so worried about by simply reducing revenues, and cutting regulations. If they feel they know the truth when they hear it, that is their decision, that is their right, they certainly pay their fair share of taxes, they are good solid Americans and like you they want the all the Bush tax cuts repealed.

Nobody likes it when you put things in PERSPECTIVE, Pat. So knock it off!

I have been using the Lucy/Charlie Brown metaphor for MONTHS now. Do Nothing Congress doesn't begin to cover their insidious, spiteful narratives and their continual BLAMING of the poor.

Never bad management decisions, never reckless loan underwriting, never a Republican error...

Just the DAMNED POOR and INFIRM that are holding all those Joe the 'would be Millionaire' Plumbers back from getting their slice of the pie.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/Understanding-Poverty-in-the-United-States-Surprising-Facts-About-Americas-Poor

The Republican "Righteous" don't really care who they have to kill, maim or other wise KEEP DOWN to make sure they get in the FRONT of the line for the wealthy scraps.

Man, I'd be disgusted if I weren't so fed up!

You are wrong. Yes, I too want obama to fail. Do you understand why? Because his policies are terrible for this country. Look at where we are at now. The economy is obama and the democrats. They have done nothing but ruin our country and want to continue down the same destructive path. The Republicans want and know that obama's policies will fail because they do care about the country and not just their polical views.

And tell us again what the Republicans have done to help the economy and unemployed? They, the TEA PARTY, said let the government go bankrupt when asked to increase the debt ceiling. Their solution to uninsured people, just let them die. They can't come up with a single unified plan on jobs grown. Stimulus plan didn't worked, why, because they refuse to allow it to work. (Economist still say it did, or we would be in a depression right now. They pledge not to raise any taxes, instead of keeping their pledge to uphold the USA and the Constitution

Mark, that is a popular talking point on how President Obama policies failed and been bad for America. What policies and just what bad have they done? Maybe if the republicans hadn't obstructed anything that might help America or be democratic policies I would then be able to judge if they were bad or good. It's like they sit on the cutting room floor.

The stimulus kept us our of a depression, but then you support a tea party that wanted to default on our loans and got our credit downgraded I guess in your mind that was good. Obama-care doesn't even take effect until 2014 so I can't see how we could be suffering from that already.

I find the most puzzleing that a tea party claiming to want religion and everyone has to declare their love for God in our government are the ones that fight the hardest to taking care of the poor and giving health care to the poor. Maybe I read a different bible, but I thought that Jesus was about taking care of the poor and sick not the rich?

Cooperative style? There was not one Republican that was invited or sat on the healthcare negotiations. Behind closed doors, which obama stated himself would never happen. You and the liberals forget that for two years, obama and the democrats controlled both legislatures. For a period in 2009, the senate also had a filibuster proof senate. It really did not matter that Republicans cooperated or not. But instead, obama and the democrats threw this time away and did nothing for our economy.

I don't believe the president was ever being fooled, but rather the other way around in which the GOP/TP fools have been exposed as fools.

Wow Fancy this Too, Thank You I am flatered and grateful for such a nice compliment.

What ever.... It's all race isn't it? When you have nothing else (which is most of the time) it's all race.

That story has been played and is getting quite old. But hey... if it gives you comfort cling to it and we will see a conservative president in 2012!

Every time someone make a comment and mention a black person, someone have to say it's all about race which is most of the time. But it's okay to say the causasian to tell others and I don't hear or read anything concerning race. Its not about about race, but a person. We are all Human Being.

We are all God's children wheather we believe in Him are not.

"... the way the high corporate taxes have driven our American jobs overseas.."

Like they did under Reagan's tax rates at the time? Hey- is it just taxes chasing jobs overseas? Not the ultra cheap labor rates being paid in some of those counties? I wonder which component is the larger one in figgering expenses?

Doesn't it irritate you just a little bit that although the investment income SHOULD be taxed, we can't because they'll just "take their ball and go home?"

Low corporate taxes sure haven't helped Ireland very much.

Thanks

It is not going here now, it goes somewhere but it sure isn't here, so what difference would it make . All you can do is collect some taxes, evidently that is the only way America will get what it is due for providing them with everything it has to offer.

I don't know. Taxing the corporations then taxing the investor seems like a double tax to me. Maybe there are better oppurtunitys for investment over seas. We passed Dodd/Frank and banks are laying off 10's of thousands of workers now. Will that mean less loans to stimulate the economy too? Are we really getting the best leadership from the White house at this time???

They all play a part as they all affect the cost of goods and services to the end user.

David Cote CEO of honeywell and a member of obanas business brain trust for creating jobs had this to say earlier this year (paraphrased) Honeywell would love to see corporate taxes taken down to zero, but in reality i know that isn't going to happen.

What is amazing is that with obamas current deficit plan he has injected new uncertainty for investors and business alike as to what it will cost them to keep on doing business in America.

Obama can postulate all he wants, but his latest folly does little to unite Americans towards a common goal for recovery.

Business is sitting on a lot of capital, even apple is reported to be sitting on about $76 billion looking for opportunities. Yes I meant BILLION. Sure does look like obama is looking for a money grab at the expense of jobs and sound economic recovery.

Sam, haven't followed ireland's finances closely, but I do know that, as reported by bloombergTV, ireland has the best chance of recovery and meeting its bailout provisos. BTW - investment income is taxed as capital gain for individuals, not sure what it is called for corporations. Regardless, do you really believe that the IRS and politicians will ignore any potential revenue?

We are... and it does...

Look at the posts above then go visit the links we provide and do some REAL research yourself rather than relying on ThinkProgress

:-P

SofB, LMAO. Do you have the CBO score for the president's plans? I thought not.

We are not talking about the president's 'plan' (try to keep up)

We are talking about the facts and history supporting conservative claims... claims like 'the rich pay more taxes - both dollars and percentage than everyone else - middle class included!'

The FACT is... The U.S. has a progressive tax system that punishes success!

The tax numbers (according to the IRS) support this claim. So suck it!

We have a much less progressive tax system that we did at one time, and if punishment means rapidly increasing wealth the already rich are being punished very severely indeed.

You can spin the statistics all you want, the wealthy elites pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class. That's FACT and it's ridiculous;

So when it comes to Buffett's statement, there are two categories: the rich and the really rich. And the evidence tends to point to the conclusion that the really rich pay less in taxes as a percentage of income then their merely well-to-do counterparts -- if their income comes primarily from investments. Overall, we rate Buffett's statement True.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/18/warren-buffett/warren-buffett-says-super-rich-pay-lower-taxes-oth/

Write the Buffett Rule into law.

Pass the American Jobs Act now.

Yeah Edward if you say so I guess, Obama is toast, that's why Ron Paul is an unacknowledged front runner in the Republican primary and the whole Republican establishment is desperately pretending he does not even exist. Obama probably could be beat, but not by anybody in the republican primary race thus far, they are going to have their hands full getting past Ron Paul much less an incumbent president.

How soon they forget...Here is a list of past Presidents and their approval ratings at this point in their first terms (or in G. H. W. Bush's case, his only term):

Bill Clinton 10/95 : 43% Ronald Reagan 9/1983 46%

George H.W. Bush 9/91 70% George W. Bush 9/ 2003 52%

Barack Obama 9/12 43%

Where ever state Mr Ron Paul lives in I'm sure a majority of those people still have their jobs, home and the economic is booming, right? Bush didn't want to be blame for nothing and those who was keeping up what was happening, hid their hand and ignored .

Bush might had those rating. I still say our economic shouldn't have been in this situation coming out of 2008. I'm still asking what happen to the surplus when Cliniton left office. What kind of surplus Bush left

He used the surplus for the argument that taxes were too high and gave it all away, remember the rebates, instead of maintaining a surplus and using it to pay down the debt they now claim they are so worried about. Money just burns a hole in republicans pockets, it is so irresponsible, who could run a business like that who could run a household like that, so so irresponsible, and sad.

AmyB - all the presidents before obama has found a way to work with congress and to get America moving forward.

Where is the warm feeling on main street that their is a light at the end of the recovery tunnel?

Pretty lame politically for obama to go to the people saying "if we tax the wealthy just a little more we will make it" If we tax corporations more, we will make it" or "I just need a little bit of money more from someone else, but not you poor and middle class people.

Where is the encouragement to all Americans that life will be better once this rough patch has ended. ISN'T THAT HIS JOB AS POTUS? offer unity instead of division? Offer encouragement instead of blame?

Remember this from spanky?

Hope is not a plan, Change is not a strategy. Experience counts.

Bush didn't have anything concrete either and you know it because the economic would have been in type of situation.

bush did have no concrete either,if he did economic wouldn't have been like it is now.

NYC - You got me laughing about the columns and walking down froim mount olympus. His handlers must not have had any olive branches to make a crown of leaves for him.

The TRUTH is only the truth when you recognize it as such!

And the TRUTH IS that there is more RACISM demonstrated by BLACK AMERICA than any other race in this nation!

Talk to those fine young men of the Blank Panthers over in Philadelphia... I am sure King Samir Shabazz would be happy to explain it! Hypocrite!

Laurie...With conservatives, misery loves company. It's why I always reject any invitations from them. You work hard. To them, that's not enough. You pay your taxes and some of those they don't pay. That's not enough. You do your fair share and volunteer. They call that charity and turn it into a dirty word. Their game is simple: Take, take, take. Never give, give, give. That would be too much liberalism and they might choke on that.