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Subscribe to RSSObama’s populist pitch… The $3 trillion in deficit reduction he’ll unveil at 10:30 am ET includes $1.5 trillion in increased revenue (read: taxes), $1.1 trillion in ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the rest in entitlement savings… GOP slams the plan… White House doesn’t show leg on entitlement reform… Note: The Buffett Rule isn’t part of the proposal… Suskind book represents more piling on Obama… Perry begins portraying Romney as an elitist… Daniels frustrated by GOP field’s rhetoric… Another Reagan for statewide office in California?... And Ovide Lamontange makes his bid for NH GOV.
AP
*** Obama’s populist pitch: The $3 trillion in deficit reduction that President Obama will unveil in the Rose Garden at 10:30 am ET represents another populist turn for the White House. The $3 trillion over 10 years includes $1.5 trillion in increased revenue ($800 billion in letting the Bush tax cuts expire for top income earners, $700 billion in closing loopholes and other tax breaks), $1.1 trillion in ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the rest in savings from Medicare and Medicaid (that primarily come from providers, not beneficiaries). Not surprisingly, Democrats and liberals love it, Republicans and conservatives hate it, and it’s unlikely to be adopted by the “Super Committee.” The plan raises two questions: One, should Republicans have taken the deficit-reduction deal Obama offered back in July -- which contained more substantial entitlement changes and less tax revenue? And two, how will Obama’s proposal (and the GOP denunciation of it) impact the Super Committee?
AP
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) on 'Meet the Press' Sunday, September 18, 2011.
*** GOP slams Obama plan: Republicans have already panned Obama’s proposal. “We don't want to stagnate this economy by raising taxes,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said on “Meet the Press” yesterday. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan added on FOX yesterday, “You already have a $1.5 trillion tax increase coming in current law starting in 2013. Now, we're talking about another tax $1.3 trillion tax increase on top of that?... Why on earth would we go with that, especially when the problem is spending?” Ryan then said this about his vision for the Super Committee: “We see the Super Committee as an opportunity to get a down payment on debt through spending cuts.” A down payment? Both McConnell and Ryan seemed to make it clear that both the Obama jobs bill and the Obama debt plan were non-starters. Republicans are now trying to play four corners a bit in Congress -- do the minimum amount of cooperation with Democrats without giving Obama a big “win” on either jobs or taxes and hope voters hold Obama more responsible for DC inaction than congressional Republicans.
*** WH doesn’t show any leg on entitlement reform: It’s worth noting that Obama’s proposal today doesn’t represent a major effort on entitlement reform. There are no changes to Social Security; the eligibility age for Medicare doesn’t increase; and the savings from Medicare and Medicaid come primarily from providers, with a LITTLE hit on wealthier Medicare recipients (not quite means-testing but on the road to it). Privately, Team Obama folks note he made a major effort on entitlements back in July, and was rebuffed by Boehner. So why show any leg here if Republicans aren’t willing to show leg on raising tax revenue? It would only serve to antagonize the president’s standing with base elites even more.
AP
Warren Buffett in Washington, DC July 18, 2011.
*** “Buffett Rule” isn’t included in proposal: By the way, the so-called “Buffett Rule” that the White House floated over the weekend -- calling for a minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million per year, to prevent investors like Warren Buffett to pay a lower effective tax rate than his secretary does -- isn’t included in Obama’s $3 trillion proposal. Senior administration officials say that the “Buffett Rule” should be a principle guiding how Congress undertakes tax reform.
*** Piling on Obama, Part 37: The other story dominating Washington right now is Ron Suskind’s book on the Obama White House, “Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and the Education of a President.” Obama is currently at a moment in his presidency -- facing all-time lows in the polls -- where every little thing (like this book) magnifies his problems right now. And the former Obama aides in the book continue the “pile on” we observed last week. While we’re still plowing through it, it’s worth noting a growing trend as Democrats leave the administration -- it’s not just some West Wing aides or the president who get parting shots, but also Treasury Secretary Geithner as well. Geithner has not fared well in this book, nor in “Too Big to Fail.”
*** Silver Spoons: Turning to the 2012 GOP race, we’ve seen Rick Perry unveil a new line of attack on Mitt Romney -- portraying him as an elitist. “I was the son of tenant farmers and sure wasn’t born with four aces in my hand,” Perry said on Friday night in Iowa, per NBC’s Andrew Rafferty, Alex Moe, and Anthony Terrell. That’s part of the line of attack (in addition to portraying Romney as a flip-flopper) that you’ll see from Democrats if the former Massachusetts governor becomes the GOP nominee. So as congressional Republicans hit the president for class warfare, it’s worth noting Rick Perry is playing the class card of sorts against Mitt Romney. Populism usually works in primaries and general elections.
*** Daniels frustrated by GOP field’s rhetoric: Meanwhile, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels -- who flirted with a presidential bid earlier this year -- “says that he has occasionally been frustrated by the discourse in the campaign and that the field could benefit from at least one more contender whose candidacy was rooted in a message of fiscal discipline,” the New York Times reports. Said Daniels: “Somebody else could still enter and have a competitive chance.” More: “The candidate I could get instantly excited about is someone who is willing to level with the American people and assume they are prepared to listen to the mathematical facts and agree that whatever other disagreements we have aren’t as important.”
*** On the 2012 trail: Rick Santorum, Gary Johnson, and Buddy Roemer are all in New Hampshire… Bachmann begins a two-day swing through Iowa… Cain is in Florida… And Gingrich hosts a screening of his “City on a Hill” in Bluffs, IA.
*** Another Reagan for statewide office in California? On Friday, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Michael Reagan -- a former conservative talk-show host and son of Ronald Reagan -- is considering a bid against Sen. Dianne Feinstein. “One Republican who is considering a run is Michael Reagan. ‘Yes,’ he said in an e-mail to The Chronicle Thursday, ‘but can't talk about it now.’ Reagan, who has never held public office, declined to respond to further questions.” Speaking of California, L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (D) will be in DC today giving a 1:00 pm ET speech on education at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. Per an aide, Villraigosa will tell the think tank that “adequate funding and deep reform must go hand in hand.”
*** Ovide for NH governor? And with Gov. John Lynch (D) deciding not to run for re-election in 2012, Republican Ovide Lamontagne is running for the office, NBC’s Jo Ling Kent reports. The New Hampshire Democratic Party released this statement: "The ring leader has now joined the State House circus. Is there even a single instance where Lamontange doesn't agree with the job killing agenda forced on New Hampshire by the reckless Tea Party legislature this year?" By the way, does this mean Ovide will NOT endorse in the presidential primary and instead focus on using his standing to raise money?
*** Monday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up: National Journal’s Jim Tankersley and the Economist’s Greg Ip on the economic implications of the president’s deficit reduction and jobs plans … Ed Rendell and Michael Steele on Pennsylvania’s possible shift to awarding electoral votes by congressional district … Plus the latest on the president’s economic push and the 2012 race with Republican Pete Seat, Democrat Karen Finney, and the Washington Post’s Dan Balz.
*** Monday’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” line-up: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell interviews OMB Director Jack Lew (on the president’s deficit-reduction plan), former Bush Chief of Staff Andy Card, Ed Rollins, and NBC’s Ann Curry, as well as Politico’s Ben Smith, the Washington Post’s Jonathan Capehart, and the New York Times’ David Rohde.
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 50 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 140 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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So many interesting developments over the past weekend to choose from & so little time…
For starters, a 26 year old tea bagger is going to challenge John Boehner for his seat running on
a strict pro-life agenda. Now the Weeper of the House has something to really cry about!
Then there was the massive protest on Wall Street by ordinary people who are just plain fed up
with bailing out big business while Main Street continues to get the shaft!
The only question is WHY more people aren’t out there demanding reform?
By far though, my favorite though has to be Paul Ryan calling for 50% tax increases on the middle
class while dismissively playing the class warfare card.
One MORE time – taxes are at their lowest in 50 YEARS!
If they want ‘war’ then it’s well past time WE the 'little' people take it to the streets!
Sprinkle in the customary ridiculous nonsense that’s coming out of the mouths of the GNOP candidates and that cake is baked!
There it is in a nutshell folks – the GNOP strategy is for the rich to get richer & to bend over the rest of us!
Bill Maher said it best – the Teapublican party has become a pep rally for hurting people!
Looks like Barry is going with the same old, same old, tired, worn out, failed, Dem BS in his so called “deficit reduction” plan. This POS is nothing more than another campaign speech that will produce nothing but more useless hot air. It will not produce any new revenue since the tax increase proposals have already been previously rejected by Republican’s. And it does nothing to really control spending on entitlements, which are bankrupting the country, since Dems in the Senate won’t support his proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.
As today’s WSJ notes, this is the fourth deficit reduction plan Barry has put out this year. At some point people stop listening and, when a President becomes irrelevant, his Presidency is effectively over. Barry is fast becoming irrelevant. And he’s right on schedule. It was the fall of 1979 when Jimmy Carter’s irrelevancy was becoming widely known, to the point where the Hero of Chappaquiddick challenged him in the 1980 Presidential primaries. Barry may indeed be serving Jimmy Carter’s second term.
Hillary, are you listening??
THE AMERICAN JOBS ACT: Putting Workers Back on the Job While Rebuilding and Modernizing America
The President's plan: "includes $50 billion in immediate investments for highways, transit rail and aviation, helping to modernize an infrastructure that now receives a grade of 'D' from the American Society of Civil Engineers and putting hundreds of thousands of construction workers back on the job".
OHIO: 27 percent of the bridges Speaker John Boehner’s home state of Ohio are either “structurally deficient or functionally obsolete,” while one-fourth of its roads are considered poor or mediocre. At the heart of the Midwest, Ohio’s share of the national highway system has 171 highway bridges that are structurally deficient. 10 of those bridges are located in Boehner’s own district. Indeed, Obama singled out the Brent-Spence bridge connecting Ohio and Kentucky as “one of the busiest trucking routes in North America.” A recent Cincinnati Enquirer investigation into the bridge noted that it “is one of only 15 major interstate bridges in the country labeled by the federal government as ‘functionally obsolete’ for failure to meet safety or traffic flow standards.”
KENTUCKY: More than one-third (34 percent) of the bridges in Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s home state are structurally deficient or obsolete, including the Brent-Spence Bridge. Of those bridges, 108 are located on the national highway system, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Nearly one in five of Kentucky’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
Please see the following to see how the AJA will impact infrastructure in Mr. McConnell's state of Kentucky, and Mr. Boehner's state of Ohio:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/THE_AMERICAN_JOBS_ACT_Impact_KY.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/THE_AMERICAN_JOBS_ACT_Impact_OH.pdf
www.whitehouse.gov
It is unsafe, unreasonable & beyond all logic to allow our nation's infrastructure to crumble while GOP leaders refuse to act! Leader McConnell (R-KY) is still against infrastructure investment even as the Brent Spence Bridge in his constituency has shut down due to safety issues. (69,000 bridges in need of repair across the country.)
Questions:
1. Is GOP willing to endanger our travel across the US because they want us to blame it on the President?
2. And are they paving the way privatizing our US highway system, charging tolls, etc.?
Obama in 2012.
America is for Sale.
Day 11 of Obama's Infrastructure Job Plan, and no "crumbling" bridges have fallen over yet.
The only thing that seems to be crumbling is Obama's re-election chances.
Soup kitchens are the next entrepreneurial venture.
McSoup - Coming to a corner near you.
Funny how libs excoriate oil companies, billionaires - the right as being the party that protects the rich at the expense of the tax payer, yet it is Obama that literally gives a billionaire oil man a half a billion tax payer dollars and literally breaks the law by putting him in front of the American tax payer in bankruptcy court.
And then the left literally defends this fraud of a president…. 1 company failed – big deal.
(Actually, Solyndra is the third green company to fail in a MONTH! SpectraWatt filed on Aug. 19 and Evergreen Solar tapped out on Aug. 15.)
But aside from the cosmic corporate cronyism, the willful disregard and care of the American tax payer’s hard earned money in the forced / fraudulent process, the breaking of law to subjugate the tax payer’s half billion to an Oklahoma billionaire……
If Obama and liberals were truly sincere in wanting to help the unemployed and they feel they have to “invest”, why not invest in stuff that works – that is viable – that can sustain itself instead of stuff that fails even with government billions, that costs $4 -$10 million per job and that costs 2-5 other jobs for every job created?
Liberalism to this extreme is pure insanity.
I would like to start today’s post with a praise: CONGRATULATIONS AND HAPPY 15TH ANNIVERSARY TO THE BEST MORNING SHOW ON TELEVISION – FOX & FRIENDS!!!!!!! – AND KICKING OFF THE BEST CABLE NEWS NETWORK ON THE AIRWAYS!!!!!!! NUMBER ONE IN THE RATINGS AND NUMBER ONE IN AMERICA’S HEARTS AND MINDS!!!!!!
Can you smeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllll what the Obama is cooking??????????? Smeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllsssss like Hilly PIE and he is trying to feed it to the American people. It is full of the same old crap of class warfare and a new revelation that he has purposely cost American lives by delaying the withdrawal of troops for political gain. Trying to portray the image of the “War President,” Obama was all along the “Whore President.” And now the NYT reports that this piece of garbage will stoop so low as to use the pensions of retired military as another 2x4. He has no morals; he has no patriotism; he had no business placing the CMH on a true American hero this weekend. It cheapens the heroic events of an individual that placed his life on the line for an inept commander in chief.
The regular progressive loons on here will continue to eat pieces of that PIE and love the compost smell and crappy taste. Then they try to spread that crap with their bad breath. He had his opportunity last December to initiate leadership and Obama failed.
There is no way the American people – except for the Hillys on here and their ilk – will support tax increases on families making $250,000 a year. This man is out of control; he is confused; he suffers from dementia.
"When the president does things like this, it leads me to believe that he's not in bipartisan consensus-making mood. He's in a political class warfare mode and campaign mode. And that's not good for our economy," Ryan said on "Fox News Sunday."
Obama's deficit-reduction plan will be pitched to the bipartisan "super committee," which is trying to find about $1.5 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade -- the president will push for at least $2 trillion in savings, in part to cover the cost of his $447 billion jobs plan.
Ryan said the committee would have been a "good vehicle" through which to achieve tax reform by striking deductions, simplifying the code and lowering tax rates -- all while cutting spending. He said details coming out of the White House cause him to "second-guess myself." With some calling on the bipartisan committee to go big, Ryan suggested Washington shouldn't get its hopes up.
"We should hold our expectations down on the select committee and let's just get another down payment on debt. There's so much spending that needs to be cut," Ryan said.
Ryan also slammed the president's jobs proposal, which includes a blend of tax breaks, infrastructure spending and local government aid. While he expressed interest in one proposal to retrain the long-term unemployed, Ryan said that even the payroll tax cut component of Obama's plan is a bad idea.
"It hasn't worked, and especially when you're taking these temporary tax rebates and paying for them with permanent tax increases, that is actually self-defeating," he said. "So, we just don't want to go with ideas that have already proven to fail."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/18/gop-frustration-grows-with-obama-approach-to-jobs-deficit/#ixzz1YOFzMRHy
The Unions are a prime suspect for getting taxpayer bailout money every time the industries they steal from are failing. As we see with Solyndra, the Greens are doing the exact same thing. Obama money bundlers are neck deep as private investors in Solyndra, and of course Obama back in May stood in the middle of the Solydra factory telling the world how wonderful a company Solyndra was and what a great Green investment he (Obama) made for the American people. Shortly after that, the Solyndra IPO failed to get any buyers because Wall Street investors could read a balance sheet and see that Solyndra was a total failure. The company went bankrupt with the taxpayers being on hook for the default while the Obama money bundlers that had privately invested in Solyndra got their money back.
But fear not America, the Obama money bundlers got their money back, and it's certain some/most of it will be contributed back to Team Obama and the Democrats campaign funds. That money is known as "Stimulus" to the Obama money bundlers, because Obama will be sure to direct even more taxpayer money their way in the future.
What a scam Obama is running. It almost seems criminal.
When Obama sycophant and Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne opines "Can Obama Calm Democratic Panic?"...you know the wheels are really coming off.
Dionne's no longer simply emoting about GOP "obstructionism"...now he's whining about Congressional Democrats' lukewarm response to the President's jobs bill. He says that NY-9 and NV-2 have them very worried.
Panic...
Maybe in this case, it's justified.
The lack of anything coming out of the democrat-controlled Senate is scandalous!!! They are scared to let the American people see how they will vote on House bill after House bill being passed and sent to its chamber. The party of “Duh” is robbing the American people from up & down votes on what their duly elected representatives have passed. Scandalous!!!!
If Warren Buffet Says it's Okay I Think it's Okay.
On Monday morning 9-19- 11, President Obama will call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers.
President Obama named it the “Buffet Tax”after its astute progenitor Warren Buffet. Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer describes the tax as an alternative minimum tax which is intended to ensure millionaires pay a minimum rate of tax that is at least on par with that of middle-income earners.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x775124
It’s a creative way of raising taxes without raising the top marginal rate. As you may be aware, many millionaires and billionaires pay a lower effective tax rate than your typical secretary or janitor.
President Clinton said Sunday in an interview on CBS’ Face the Nation.
“I’d like to see the economic plan that (President Obama) talked about in his address to Congress enacted first, then when the economy starts growing again in a year or two, then I’d like to put the hammer down on this deficit problem,” Mr. Clinton told host Bob Schieffer.
“If you look at the group that has had the biggest income increases and the benefit of most of the tax cuts of the previous eight years before the Obama administration took office, those of us in that income group, we’re in the best position to make a contribution to changing the debt structure of the country,” Mr. Clinton said, “I don’t think that’s such a draconian thing.”
Mr. Clinton added that the economy will not start growing until the banks clear mountains of debt racked up in the mortgage crisis.
Naturally, the Republicans will oppose this. Let them.
RepubliCons want this fast and furiously.They want to destroy America fast because they are "Fake" and know their time is over.
Republicans Call Obama's Tax Plan-- "Class Warfare"-- Another Whopper from the Carnival Barker Interluders. The Republicans should know about Class Warfare since they do it all and all the time. They've tried to pit Blacks against Hispanics to be against President Obama, Muslims against Christians, immigrants against Americans, unions against public and private sectors, voters against their imaginary fraudulent voters, and rich against the middle class and poor. Now they are even trying to pit Hillary against the President.
Don't forget how these crazy-carnival barkers wildly clap & cheer about killing people!
Should the House of Representative approve the “Buffet Tax" the millionaires/billionaires deserve everything they get and more.
America is for Sale.
LOL. FOX & FIENDS CELEBRATING 15 YEARS OF LYING with Wretched Gretchen, acerbir mouth Michelle Malkin, the 3 deuces um, I mean dunces .
New Book Says Obama 'Has a Real Woman Problem'
Scandal after scandal keeps piling on this administration. But the Hilly types on here like Feisty, Navy, Beverly, Nash, et. al. will continue to eat more pieces of the PIE being fed to them from this administration like Stepford Wives.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/17/book-obama-white-house-has-real-woman-problem/#ixzz1YO2xI0S2
The Obama White House is a “hostile” environment for women even though they occupy many of the senior positions in the West Wing, according to a new book.
Pulitzer Prize-winning author Ron Suskind interviewed more than 200 people, including President Obama, for "Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and The Education of A President," which will be released Sept. 20.
The book portrays a White House in which Obama struggled with a divided group of advisers, some of whom he didn't initially consider for their high-profile roles. And top female advisers said they felt left out of key meetings or overpowered by their male counterparts.
But a top female official blamed Obama for leading a boys’ club.
“The president has a real woman problem. The idea of the boys’ club being just Larry and Rahm isn’t fair,” she told Suskind, referring to former Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and Larry Summers, former chairman of the National Economic Council. Obama “was just as responsible himself.”
Christina Romer, former head of the Council of Economic advisers, described one meeting for Suskind in which she was “boxed out” by Summers, the Washington Post reported.
“I felt like a piece of meat,” she said.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/17/book-obama-white-house-has-real-woman-problem/#ixzz1YO3QZoBZ
American Jobs Act ….I realize Obama and his job czar, Jeff Immelt have created a ton of jobs overseas, even thousands of Chinese jobs over here in America from the Golden Gate ”infrastructure” Bridge job to 7 schools to the MLK statue ….
But is it to the point that Obama has to clarify “American” Jobs?
And if he wanted to be truly honest, wouldn’t it be …..
(A particular) American’s Job Act?
In an excerpt obtained by The Washington Post, a female senior aide to President Obama called the White House a hostile environment for women.
“This place would be in court for a hostile workplace,” former White House communications director Anita Dunn is quoted as saying. “Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women.”
The democrat party is in disarray. Poor leadership, infighting and just the wrong vision for the United States of America have driven the party down to its lowest level. Pulitzer Prize winning author Ron Suskind’s new book “Confidence Men” reveals the inner non-workings of the WH. It features a tax cheat Treasury Secretary Geithner refusing to follow orders. You have a president who is way over his head and never should have been elected (error corrected 11/12) shown as frustrated and agitated.
So instead of all the whining and complaining about the Republicans not supporting the president, the Hilly impersonators on here of Feisty, Beverly, Nash, Navy, et. al. ladies ought to clean up their own house and hold their party accountable for the failures. No one with one ounce of intelligence would expect the opposition to kowtow to your nonsensical rants while your own party is not kowtowing to the anointed one. Ladies how are you enjoying your Hilly “PIE” that you so rightly deserve?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/15/tim-geithner-ignored-obama-order_n_965404.html
The book also offers accounts of disagreement among advisers over how large a stimulus was necessary to revive the economy and how aggressively to deal with financial institutions that had become "too big to fail."
Summers is quoted as lamenting that he and others felt "home alone" and that mistakes made under Obama would not have happened under President Clinton, for whom Summers also served. Interviewed by Suskind, Summers initially denied making such comments, then acknowledged them, saying he was frustrated at having "five issues" of major importance to deal with at once and not "five times as many" officials to handle them.
The book also states Geithner and the Treasury Department ignored a March 2009 order to consider dissolving banking giant Citigroup while continuing stress tests on banks, which were burdened with toxic mortgage assets.
Geithner says in the book that he did not recall that Obama was mad at him about the Citigroup decision and rejected allegations contained in White House documents that his department had been slow to enact the president's plans.
"I don't slow walk the president on anything," Geithner told Suskind.
"The Citbank incident, and others like it, reflected a more pernicious and personal dilemma emerging from inside the administration: that the young president's authority was being systematically undermined or hedged by his seasoned advisers," Suskind writes.
The book also says Emanuel was not the president's first choice for the position. According to Suskind, Emanuel's name was not even on the initial short list, which included White House aide Pete Rouse.
A Buffett tax???? Morrison's Cafeteria and others will not like that. Neither will Jimmy Buffett to have taxes raised on his merchandise and margaritas.
JoAnnaSmith1
Day 11 of Obama's Infrastructure Job Plan, and no "crumbling" bridges have fallen over yet.
The only thing that seems to be crumbling is Obama's re-election chances.
Lady Jo Anna Sniff
But, John Boehner's upper lip is trembling and his J-O-B-S plan has gone flat.
I'd worry about the circus in your own party there sparky!
Well, thanks for tipping your hand... at least we know the I HATE OBAMA focus this week will be all about a book full of innuendos...
Alrighty then... lol
Looks like FR Conservatives want to talk about ANYTHING except the FACT that the very rich pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class. The GOPTP has a religious devotion to protecting the wealthy elites and they aren't going to reason on this point...they are psychologically committed and irrational.
Too bad. The middle class is sick of being taken advantage of. This is something that won't go away.
Joe in Albany@1.1== Please explain why we don't have more jobs available since we have had tax cuts in effect for over ten years now. And the tax rates are the lowest in over fifty years. Oh, by the way, Jimmy Carter is credited with creating more jobs in just four years than Bush 41 and 43 did in twelve years. And yes Bill Clinton created more jobs than Reagan and both Bush 41 and 43. Clinton did this in eight years compared to the other three's twenty years. I know you will get back to with your spin, but please try using facts.
Feisty,
It would sure seem to me that what is "punishing job creation" is the failed policies of Bush and Co especially those ones that were extorted to pass extension of Unemployment.
If these "job creators" were so whippy with miniscule tax rates and off shore policies,...tell me again why we hit the proverbial meltdown wall? Rightttttttttt,...we can't connect those dots because those dots are illusory and the right KNOWS it.
But it won't stop them from pretending to know what is what,...and outright lying to score a point.
PS. Did anyone catch Rick Perry saying he wasn't dealt four aces in life, this weekend? No, Rick, you weren't dealt them; but you sure managed to stack the deck, now, didn't you? Me thinks he needs to learn some Texas Hold 'Em or shut up with the Poker Metaphors,...I bet there are some pretty big skeletons in the payoff closet. With Halloween coming up, I sure hope he doesn't 'rattle' them!
Hey Smiffy... How about the major bridge they've closed between IN & KY that been deemed too dangerous?
What are YOU suggesting? They just leave it closed forever?
Vote Repubican - if you LOVE the idea of the country crumbling right before your eyes!!!
Ray-4054460
A Buffett tax???? Morrison's Cafeteria and others will not like that. Neither will Jimmy Buffett to have taxes raised on his merchandise and margaritas.
Ray, that's why Congress must "Pass this Bill" otherwise the rich and infamous would never pay.
@Feisty -- In addition the book written by a Pulitzer Prize winner who also went after the Bush WH, there is Fast & Furious; Solyndra and other bankrupt companies and our tax dollars; inability to accomplish major tasks; massive unemployment; horrible poll numbers -- and the list goes on. How's that PIE there Hilly????
The rich, the top 10% of earners, pay 70% of the income taxes. So John, it's obvious that you and other Libs don't think the rich are paying their "fair-share". So how much more do you want them to pay?
it is embarrassing that we have a President who apparently does not know the difference between capital gains taxes and payroll taxes.
either he is ignorant, or thinks all of us are.
libs, take your pick!
John B, Des Moines, IA
Looks like FR Conservatives want to talk about ANYTHING except the FACT that the very rich pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class
John B, Forgive them for they know NOT what they do. They are FOX JUNKIES and hypocrites which means they've been dumbed down.
The stars at night, are big and bright,
deep in the heart of Texas,
The prairie sky is wide and high,
deep in the heart of Texas.
The sage in bloom is like perfume,
deep in the heart of Texas,
Reminds me of, the one I love,
deep in the heart of Texas.
The migration continues as the scent of jobs for Americans are drawing them to the state with the best probability of putting them back to work. The unemployment rate in Texas mirrored the U.S. unemployment rate until the Obama spike started to add more and more to the welfare and poverty roles. No matter what you call it – leadership; luck; four aces – it makes no difference. Texas is a great place to find work.
Breaking News (for those uninformed) Forbes just listed San Antonio, El Paso and Austin – all in Texas – in the top 12 cities in this country that have the best outlook for jobs. In fact San Antonio is #1. Damn I love those four aces. Here’s some more Hilly PIE ladies. Enjoy and munch down on a second piece ROFLMAO!!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44543246/ns/business-forbes_com/#.TnNNGdS4KSo
“We do see some bright spots in hiring, especially in San Antonio, which has the most promising hiring outlook for the fourth quarter,” says Jonas Prising, president of the Americas at ManpowerGroup. “Employers in other markets in Texas, including El Paso and Austin, are also anticipating strong hiring increases.”
The San Antonio metro area enjoys a 17 percent net employment outlook, the percentage of employers that expect to add employees (25 percent) minus the percentage that expect to reduce their workforce (8 percent). Another 64 percent said they anticipate no change, and 3 percent didn’t know.
“San Antonio has continued to see new jobs created, and new jobs brought to the region,” says Richard Perez, president and chief executive of the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce. “I would say that San Antonio is well positioned to come out ahead in the future as well because our cost of living remains low, making it a good environment for companies to increase their investment in jobs here, plus we have a very talented labor pool because we graduate more than 30,000 from our colleges and universities each year.”
The industry with the largest economic impact and largest number of employees in San Antonio is health care and biosciences, with more than 142,000 employees, Perez says. “This surprises a lot of people who think we are only a tourism town. One of every five workers is in the health care sector, and it has an estimated $24 billion economic impact here. We also have large manufacturing and financial services sectors. And yes, we have a significant tourism industry in San Antonio, with approximately 106,000 employees.”
The largest employers in the San Antonio area include the Department of Defense, whose workplaces include Fort Sam Houston, Lackland Air Force Base and Randolph Air Force Base. Combined they employ over 70,000 individuals. The largest corporate employer is San Antonio-based financial services firm United Services Automobile Association, with 14,800 employees. H-E-B Grocery Company follows close behind with 14,600 workers. AT&T, Toyota, JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Valero Energy, Harland Clarke and Citibank are some of the area’s other major corporate employers.
“San Antonio’s list of large employers is long and diverse,” Perez says. “We do not rely heavily on one area and that is by design. San Antonio has many industries that together keep us a resilient economy. We are fortunate to have many strong industries, and many strong companies with large employee bases.”
Osama didn't expect the twin towers to fall after his attack - But he was pleased.
I wonder if Mitch McConnell will respond the same way over his efforts to obstruct and destroy America?
All you good Republicans bitching about Obama spending money to help "this" country, where is your outrage about the FED committing to buy up bad debt from Europe with borrowed money? Apparently the only people who are not worthy of American taxpayer dollars are the American taxpayer, give me a break, yhis country sucks.
mitch j
it is embarrassing that we have a President who apparently does not know the difference between capital gains taxes and payroll taxes.
either he is ignorant, or thinks all of us are.
libs, take your pick!
I pick neither mitch
I do know the Tea-Nuts don't know much about history, science or economics.
What's wrong with them paying the same effective tax rate as the middle class? The top 0.1% of taxpayers receive over 12% of all income. With such immense inequality in pay there's no surprise that there's a difference in tax collections on a raw numbers basis. There's no excuse for compounding this unAmerican concentration of wealth by taxing the rich LESS than ordinary Americans.
O M G
The fact that this plan (and EVERY OTHER) leads with the tax increase proves that this pres is just being inciteful. This is a direct attack and does not strike the conciliatory tone he is always preaching! He is picking a fight and, of course, people will defend! Wouldn't you? And NOTHING will get done. I am disappointed.
I think we can all agree that tax reform in necessary and people are willing to pay more (I am conservative).
BUT
If you want to be a leader you have to have a plan where EVERYONE gets something they want! Not so smart for a smart guy ...
mitch j
Search any data base--apart from Fox News and Heritage & Cato Institute-- you'll see Fox and Heritage & Cato Institute defy volumes of data which say tax cuts do not provide jobs.
Fox News= Heritage & Cato Institute = Trained Liars = John Birch, anti government Koch Brothers= dumbed down FOX watchers.
After 10 years, come on you should see it by now!!!
Obama's populist pitch = Another 300 point drop for the DOW.
Backhouse,
Our spending on infrastructure was 2.4% of GDP which isn't too bad when compared to the 3% of GDP spent in 1960 for the building of the interstate highway system .... and that is before OBAMA'S FIRST ROUND OF INFRASTRUSTURE SPENDING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO FIX ALL YOUR BRIDGES.
And really .... is the way to run anything, much less a country that is broke?
900 days into his presidency and the failing flailing Obama who can't even do a damn budget wants to throw billions at a problem that won't create jobs for years?
But in the spirit of compromise ....why don't we take Obama's green scam money and apply it to infrastructure in the future ..... when we have a president that can actually come up with budgets and plan things. Obama pulling something out of his butt week after week is not a development policy.
Afterall ..... those crumbling bridges you are talking about certainly aren't crumbling as fast as Obama's green companies and his presidency.
You're not answering the question. Again, the top 10% earners pay 70% of the taxes. You say that's not their fair-share. What percentage of the income taxes do you want the the top 10% earners to pay?
Why does the MSM refer to Obama's class warfare and the hate speech of his supporters as "populist?"
Is Obama going to increase the millionaire tax rate on the capital gains tax? Or just the income tax? This is what the majority of people don't understand.
Warren Buffet makes most of his money on his capital gains, not on his income. I know its confusing.
Let's see Obama raise the tax to 38% on the capital gains and I bet Warren Buffet will be screaming in anger.
At 10:30 a.m. the POTUS POS will speak again. Do you think he will have the common courtesy to be on time instead of holding everyone up with his drivel?
@Grover -- I don't know. Why don't you get a grant and do a three-year study and get back to us.
Why after a citizen pays $100,000 in taxes does she/he have to pay a single cent more?
Didn't they cover their cost to government and a whole lot more?
(Shhhhhhh. The answer to the question the MSM won't mention is Obama is a HARD CORE SOCIALIST)
Ray-4054460
I would like to start today’s post with a praise: CONGRATULATIONS AND HAPPY 15TH ANNIVERSARY TO THE BEST MORNING SHOW ON TELEVISION – FOX & FRIENDS!!!!!!! – AND KICKING OFF THE BEST CABLE NEWS NETWORK ON THE AIRWAYS!!!!!!! NUMBER ONE IN THE RATINGS AND NUMBER ONE IN AMERICA’S HEARTS AND MINDS!!!!!!
Ray
I see you've been duped by the baby monkeys @ FAUX NEWS. You've dumb bleached blnd bimbos holding they jobs down by exposing their tails. The men are no better. They use their prehensile thumbs and fingers to perpetuate lies. At least the women @ MSNBC don't show tails and the men are not trained monnkeys
"Investigators Have Reached Out" To News Corp. Whistleblower, "Which Is A First"
Since you're apparently incapable of understanding the concept "at least equal to the rate of the middle class" I'll put some numbers to it. In 2006 the top 0.1% paid an effective tax rate of 17%, while middle class tax payers were in the mid 20's. In 1995 the top 400 paid an effective tax rate of 30%. Hardly confiscatory and the economy grew far more rapidly than it did after the Bush tax cuts. Seems like a reasonable number.
Because REAL class warfare was Paul Ryan's call to leave tax rates as they are on the wealthy elites while RAISING TAXES on everyone else.
"Obama's populist pitch = Another 300 point drop for the DOW."
=======================================================================
Piss on wall street, let it go to zero, wall street doesn't do one damn thing for main street, all they do is invest in companies that send jobs overseas, this country would be a better place if wall street burned to the ground.
Since right out of the gate Feisty and the rest of the gimme gimme gang head right off track. I know the consumer of copious amounts of butter laden popcorn has stated it will say what ever it wants to say any damn time it wants. But lets look at the reality of the past week and where both sides are. Lost elections the one in NY was a key indicator even if the liberals refuse to believe it. And its obvious by watching the news shows this weekend and this morning that the DNC is realizing what Mr Carville said on Friday, and are rolling out the big Guns i.e. Mr Clinton. Mr Clinton is pushing the only trick in the bag right now, the Republicans are vulnerable if they dont back this plan. I like Mr. Clinton in fact I voted for him once, but in both interviews he looked closed and distant with his arms clenched in front of him. His body language showed a man pissed off to just have to be there pushing this guy. Im sure he knows his wife could have done a much better job!
Okay -- I have to ask, what the hell is a 'hilly'?
Pardon my ignorance however, I don't frequent the likes of Fox, Limpballs & Drudge!
Who is the guy Ray 4054460? Seriously, you are WACK-O! I've been out for quite a while; I come back and now all of a sudden the pin heads have emerged in vile disarray. What are you doing? Please stay on subject, you're wildly all over the place. I love hearing from both sides but your arguments are terrible and erratic. If you can't form an argument please sing your songs on a different site.
Why don't we wait for the book to come out and read it ourselves instead of allowing Fox to cherry pick quotes from what will probably be a fascinating look at the young Obama administration while it grappled with a financial crisis?
PS I never liked Christine Romer or Anita Dunn, or Larry Sumner or Timothy Geithner, for that matter. THEN again, I don't like alot of people I work with either!
JoAnnaSmith1
About 12% of the bridges in the US are structurally deficient and all bridges will eventually collapse if not maintained. That's what civil engineers believe. So it seems that you're a civil engineering denier as well as a climate science denier? At least you're consistent.
"Investigators Have Reached Out" To News Corp. Whistleblower, "Which Is A First"
News Corp. is feeling the heat. It recently warned investors that on-going criminal investigation on both sides of the Atlantic “could damage our reputation” and “impair our ability to conduct business.”
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109160005
Darrell Issa says:
We Won’t Investigate News Corp’s Alleged Hacking Of 9/11 Victims Because We Don’t Want To Pick On The Media
Earlier this week, Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, assured i.e. told Fox News host Bret Baier that he would not investigate allegations that Fox’s parent company News Corp. hacked into 9/11 victims’ phones and/or violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. This, despite the requests of Democratic Ranking Member Rep. Elijah Cummings along with other members of the Committee. Among Issa’s other excuses, he didn’t want to pick on any media.
http://thinkprogress.org/media/2011/09/14/318597/issa-we-won%E2%80%99t-investigate-news-corp%E2%80%99s-alleged-hacking-of-911-victims-because-we-don%E2%80%99t-want-to-pick-on-the-media/
====================================================
instead of working to provide important oversight of an ongoing investigation, Issa has focused on blaming the administration who inherited the program instead of the administration who initiated the problem.
http://issaexposed.couragecampaign.org/index.php/page/136
Oh yea, don't forget the investigation by CREW. So that is 3 bad things Issa the corrupt/car thief/ arsonist/ corrupt/ Congressman must face.
See? When you dig a hole for others you'd be better be careful because you may fall in it yourself. Furthermore, I hear he is not being re-elected.
All these distractions from the insane republicans such as "Solynyanda", "Fast&Furious," Gibson Guitar," and whatever other stall tactic Republicans conjure up; is making people mighty angry. People want jobs, voters rights, "NO" lying on unions, or sentencing innocent people to death; and "NO" stall tactics.
The Republican skeletons are falling out of the closet. Wait, Uncle Murdorh is a skeleton
A hilly, a "block grant", Something about the "stars at night are big and bright", I swear I even saw the guy write something about Margaritaville? What the john blazes? Maybe It's over my head; I have NO IDEA what Ray is trying to convey. He lost me at "Fox and Friends"....sorry i meant FOX AND FRIENDS!!!!! Does "Mad Hatter" ring a bell.
And on a second note, I just sent it my monthly donation to the IRS.($200 this month) I think all of you should make a donation to our government. You can use your Debit card and the money goes into the general fund. Time to put your money, where ever your mouth is. Come on use a little less butter on tha popcorn and send a few dollars in, you will get a very nice email back thanking you!
Dear ^&&**,
Thank you for using the Online Service at www.irs.gov. This email confirms that your federal donation was received and processed on 9/19/2011 09:49 AM CT. The IRS will use this date as the effective date of your donation. Typically, it takes the IRS 5 to 7 business days to post this donation to your account. Your confirmation number is 6#####. If you would like a paper receipt, please visit www.irs.gov and select the option located at the top of the page.
Again, thank you for using irs.gov. Please feel free to bookmark this site for future Federal donations, and if we can be of any service to you, please contact our Customer Service team .
Thank you.
@Feisty -- Hilly is a character in the book/movie "The Help." She was the arrogant snob that was fed a crap pie by her ex housekeeper. You are eating the PIE from obama that is filled with the same substance -- fecal matter -- and spreading it. You even ask for a second piece.
@Hunter -- I really don't care what you think -- especially if you don't counsel others of being off target. You must be a Marshall fan since it seems you love losers. Also, not so quick on the up take when you don't know who Hilly is. LOL!!!!
I thought he meant FOX & FIENDS! lol
The 'Mad Hatter' is right!
"Republicans are now trying to play four corners a bit in Congress -- do the minimum amount of cooperation with Democrats without giving Obama a big “win” on either jobs or taxes and hope voters hold Obama more responsible for DC inaction than congressional Republicans."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the Republicans plans to help the country? Apparently all they have time to do is throw rocks at Obama, pathetic.
Wow I guess the stock market likes Mr Obama's plan!
JoAnna:
Your statement "Again, the top 10% earners pay 70% of the taxes" is factually correct but misleading to an extreme and I suspect you know it. The top 10% of earners make the great majority of the income in our country. Even at a lower tax rate, they are going to pay more taxes than a grocery clerk. However, they are going to to take home tons more money.
Not saying whether its right or wrong but a hedge fund manager taking home 85% of his/her $20 million income gets to spend $17 million. The grocery clerk taking home 65% of his/her $15,000 salary gets to spend $9,750. Are you really arguing that the $3 million in taxes payed by the first example is unfair compared to the $5,250 paid by the second? Do you want the grocery clerk to pay more in taxes or the hedge fund manager to pay less?
INCREASE the CAPITAL GAINS TAX not eliminate it as some are calling for..... as for improving and repairing our infrastructure....a no brainer. Just got back from a road trip through Aspen, Co, Jackson Hole, WY,..to Silicon Valley in Cali and back through New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma, Missouri etc. I can attest to the need for major overhauls of our highways and bridges. In fact the investment is long overdue. Why are we letting our infrastructure fall apart?
Ray-4054460
@Feisty -- Hilly is a character in the book/movie "The Help." She was the arrogant snob that was fed a crap pie by her ex housekeeper. You are eating the PIE from obama that is filled with the same substance -- fecal matter -- and spreading it. You even ask for a second piece.
I understand your color arousal button gets you staggered; but could you turn your lack of substance into something factual; please? It's annoying. You sound stupid like the Oxycontin Man; Rush Limbaugh!!!
Btw: why has FOX & FRIENDS spoken out against the feminist attacks on the First Lady, Michelle Obama. After all, they scream evertime some says something about bachmann,Palin
lmao...I havent watched fox anything ever! I dont even listen to Rush and occasion I will listen to Sean Hannity because he proceeds Mitch Albom on our talk radio station here in Detroit. But I get most of my news from nbc or msnbc. Bev you really do need to brush up on your spelling and grammar. Most of your points are detracted from because of your misuse of the language.
I get it Ray, you're a noob and you joined Newsvine from Foxnews.com to pick fights. Well welcome! You've already violated several noob laws in this forum:
1) Dictate in BOLD what your real affiliation is. Welcome from the tea party (e.g. fox news and FRIENDS)
2) Comment spam while stuffing your face with donuts because it's Monday
3) Troll, learn the players then pick a fight when you've copy and pasted all of your rhetoric from the conservative pin heads (or liberal pin heads, whatever)
4) Redirect when you have no argument
5) Overuse and misplacement of dumb anecdotes... "Hilly" seriously...
6) Monologue...e.g. blah blah blah
7) Argue with questions because your own arguments would be self inflicting in this modern American Age of politics because both sides have issues and the only side that "wins" is the side that promotes a solution; which of course if you offer a solution would be quickly scrolled over because no one gets up at 10:00 am to provide solutions on a random blog. We get up to pick a fight because we hate our REAL Lives.
That's about all I have to say about that, you young bucks are fish in a barrel. Work together or die together.
Chuck ToodNBC WH correspondent said, Jobs Bill never was meant to pass. This is just old game of blame the other. This new increase taxes is the same. This is nothing more than "Hope and Change" reloaded. If Obama really want to make pay more taxes to millionaires, reform the tax code and make a flat tax, everything else is just political game.
If you live in NY you must be careful with the Union Spring , because Jaffa and other left wingers and community organizers ( Obama previous job) are organizing the mob for massive protest in order to destabilize our institutions.
@Beverly -- Well darn. You gals can sure dish it out but you can't take it. Enjoy your PIE!!!!
@Hunter -- You have accurately described Feisty, Navy, Backhouse, Beverly, Nashville, et. al. on here. If you want to banter. Bring it on. You are so far off target you couldn't hit a fish in a coffee cup with a shotgun. Too much PIE will cause hallucinations.
GOOD! Go populist because the Douschebag party wants to destroy the country and the extreme left wants to just bankrupt it. F-U DOUSCHE BAGGERS and get OUT of the Republican party which you do NOT belong in. And take the radical left with you, because you are JUST like them. Actually worse.
by all means, let's harken back to the good ole days of 1960:
population then 177,830,000
population now 308,400,408
We've grown the population and highway use (especially due to trucking of goods) by at least 73 1/2% and yet for the recent DECADES we've Deferred Maintenance on the infrastructure. We do not collect enough taxes from the business who use the roads and bridges to sustain the infrastructure. In fact, the fuel taxes we all pay are the bare minimum for day to day use; but no infrastructure (or at least limited). Governments and non profits have balanced their books for decades by deferring these costs. And now it's time to proverbially 'pay the paver'.
And now that Republican malfeasance has drained the government coffers, they want to continue to beat the drum that we can't afford it. It isn't a matter of affording it. Many would argue that the taxcuts that were given and then stored offshore were literally taken from the American Dream. Now it's time to level the playing field. Reignite the dream for ALL Americans! Not just the ones that are buying congressional people and lobbyists.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Houston!, I am pretty sure you could have summed up with Fact Denier and been spot on!
Opps
Correction: BTW: why has FOX & FRIENDS "NOT" spoken out against the feminist attacks on the First Lady, Michelle Obama. After all, they scream every time some one says something, they deem negative, about Bachmann, Palin, etc?
Cavuto Hosts Godfather Actor To Call Michelle Obama "Connie Corleone" Over Healthy Eating Initiative
I don't recall Unions stealing from anyone. They negotiate a contract that is signed by both parties. Your statement is just an out and out lie.
They should pay about 90% because that's how much income their taking in each year (if you use "comprehensive income", which is used to calculate "true income" the conservatives like to use - because it adds in benefits like health care - which is also given to the rich).
Belfast Lad - You're not trying to justify a tax increase by comparing hedge fund mangers to grocery clerks, are you? There are some straw man arguments floated around here on a dailey basis, but this one takes the prize.
You, and John B., just don't want to come out and say how much more in taxes the so-called "rich" are to pay. They pay 70% of the income taxes today. A 4% raise in their taxes would get you $70 billion dollars in tax revenue a year. We run a $1.3 trillion dollar deficit today so $70 billion won't impact that deficit much at all. Say we raise the so-called "rich" taxes from 36% to 76%. In a static world, that would bring in $350 billion more in tax revenue per year (in a dynmaic tax world, they'd shelter much of it). We'd still be a trillion in debt Belfast.
You can't tax the rich enough to make a difference Belfast.
There is that $14 billion GM came up short on paying back the taxpayers for the bailout Obama gave them.
What in the world are you babbling about?
The dirtbag is late again. What an arrogant tool the POTUS is.
@stop -- actually I grew up in a coal mining state and witnessed unions stealing property by destroying it and stealing lives by killing them.
Hope everyone had a great weekend. Things are not much better with the economy and unemployment and this is not good for our country. So much "trash" talk for our politicians that they sound more like our resident posters on this link.
It stills feels like the American people have lost their trust in the Dem party, their seems to be no "hope and change" we can believe in. I am very surprised that so many Dem are leaving the president, not a good sign.
I will continue to pray for ALL our leaders, both parties since we will only fall if we are as divided as so many of the posters on this link are. Unity means we can have difference of opinions but still wish the best for ALL.
Feisty, you have been making a better effort making your point without the hateful tone, thanks.
JoAnnaSmith
That seems far too logical to be plausible.
Mike Hunt - Wonderful, colorful language with the burrito in the space suit. A+ sir.
Oddly enough, during failed stimulus 1, Ohio was offered money to build a high speed rail through the State, providing we come up with money to go with it and sustain it, as it would have never been profitable. In the end, we refused the offer, and asked that the money be used for infrastructure, and we were turned down flat. NOW some Lib is talking about the condition of bridges in Ohio as justification to pass this piece of crap idea.
I have news for you folks, the govt. shells out money on infrastructure all the time. So this isn't some new, special, job saving idea. It is another payback for the Unions, with new lipstick smeared all over it so the sheeple won't be able to see it is a re-run from before.
Bravo, President Obama!!!!
Finally DOING WHAT IS RIGHT and INTELLIGENT instead of rolling over for the Right wing scum!
I am going right now to give $500 to the DNC in support of this proposal!
I could go put $500 in a blender and still put it to better use than the DNC.
I did. Thanks for lying about it, now everything else you say today can be disregarded. If you don't mean to participate in these conversations in a meaningful way there's no reason to take you seriously.
First, GM paid back all the loans it received from TARP, with interest, 5 years early. US taxpayers still own stock in GM, but, it can be sold (and then blame GM, not the Union, which gave concessions in the agreement (I notice you deliberatly left out my original comment about Unions negotiating contracts signed by both parties- just as you said Wallstreet traders did for salaries you said HAVE to be paid and couldn't even be renegotiated with a public bailout).
You've made my point completely....if you don't know what you're talking about (comparing tax loads with the income each receives), then don't opine....you have no clue what tax policy is, has been, or how it effects people. You're probably one that believes in the flat tax (or the inane 9, 9, 9 tax policy that Cain supports). Even Mitt Romney said in the last debate how a flat tax increases taxes on the middle class and, once again, benefits the rich. And I saw Cain Sunday stating that individuals now pay 15.3% in Social Security tax (and how it would go down to 9% under his plan)...wrong Pizza breath....individuals pay 7.65%....and now you want them to pay 9%? The rich from 35% to 9%....sounds like class warfare to me.
More class war by the president. Let him have what he wants, that way when the US uses those extra taxes to bail out the EU and change nothing here (which is exactly what is going to happen), we can watch him twist in the wind tryng to blame the Republicans for letting him have everything he wants. Don't let him hang this around your necks like a noose. Give him just enough of his own rope.....then you know what to do with it. And before anyone starts with the stupidity of the race card, just don't.
Damn. You libs are DUMB. You can't possibly believe that Obama gives a rat's @ss about you or your job. All you keep saying is "Republicans are bad and Democrats are good." None of them are worth the space they take up but to keep supporting a failed president is just plain stupid. The more you support this monstrosity, the worse it's going to get, and it's your own damn fault. Not Bush's.
obama reveals his new tax increase plan and the market tanks again. who would have predicted this! every time this clown opens his mouth and spews his class warfare rhetoric the market crashes. When are you folks going to realise he is bad news?
My, my, the class warfare socialists are out in force today. And they are angry.
"Hiya Kids, hiya, hiya." Froggy
THE SECRET TO TRUE HAPPINESS
I have discovered the secret to true happiness and a meaningful experience when reading FIRST READ.
Today, as I perused the comments from the usual RWNJ suspects I decided it was time to take action. I went down the comments and marked as "ignore author" anyone who referred the President as "Barry", "Hussein" or made comments regarding his lack of leadership or understanding of the economy or blaming him for the drop in the Dow, etc. I do not feel bad about this because they are merely spouting talking points, or what they heard on FOX AND FRIENDS or Rush Limbaugh this morning and are not really offering their personal opinion or any kind of positive input.
I think I marked a dozen or more of the usual suspects as "ignore" and guess what, I found glancing the the comments a much more positive and pleasant experience.
Censorship? Stifling of discussion? Well, censorship, yes. Stifling discussion? No, definitely not. NOBODY discusses anything on FIRST READ or any of the political blogs. All they do is shout rhetoric and talking points at one-another. If I want to hear negative comments about the Obama administration I can tune into Rush Limbaugh or FOX and get my fill.
Of course, I can never stomach more than a minute or two of FOX and as for Limbaugh, my all-time record was five minutes and then I had to listen to classical music for two hours to lower my blood pressure and prevent a heart attack.
All I'm doing is exercising my right not to have my intelligence insulted. I don't watch FOX or listen to Limbaugh so why should I bother to read the musings of NoJo, Bobnumbers, Joanna, JOS or the rest of the nay-sayers? I chose not to and I'm happier for it.
Now for those of you who tune in each day to argue with one another this will not address your need for this little group therapy session. But for people like me, it makes my FIRST READ/NEWSVINE experience so much more positive and pleasant.
Try it, you'll like it.
"Plunk your magic twanger Froggy."
Oh, and if you're one of the usual RWNJ's don't bother to respond. I won't see it. I have you on "ignore" remember?
America held hostage, day 262.
Obama/Biden 2012
JoAnnaSmith:
Comprehesive Income is a term used when computing the income of welfare recipients. Since individuals receiving welfare also receive food stamps, housing assistance and health care benefits, the people calculating income impute a value on those benefits to come up with "comprehensive income" those welfare recipients get. This distorts the picture because we all know what health care benefits can be "valued" at high costs. If you add in benefits like health care, income for the poor suddenly becomes more than if you just take income as what you think it is (what your paycheck says). The bigger distortion is that income for everyone else does NOT include employer paid health care benefits that most of the working public receives.
You can see how this accounting trick can really distort the statistics one gives.
My argument is that if you add the benefits the poor receive, you should add the benefits the rest receive too. that would bring the "income" the top 10% receive to about 90% of the total income each year (and then the 70% of the taxes they pay doesn't seem so bad).
Sorry to "babble" but your IQ isn't big enough to talk intelligently about taxes, statistics and other policy...you just babble out the Republican talking points and don't really know what you're talking about.
So Skip, your answer to opposing ways of thought is to ignore them? Sounds like a true blue Obot to me.
PS - The definition of analytical thinking is to take all information, even the stuff you don't agree with, and make a decision from that, not ignoring what you don't want to hear and basing your decision only on what people say that think like you do.
"interesting developments".............some stooge running against the Speaker of the House in his home district........and a group of college kids and street bums with signs walking around the bulls in front of the stock exchange........these are interesting developments.........LMFAO
I know a lot of people don't like the unions, this weekend there was a feature on the internet about the ten richest and ten poorest states in our country. The ten poorest states were all in the south. The southern states are all right to work states. That means the workers don't have to join the union to work, they have the "right to work". Well in those states they have the right work for less, that is one reason that those states in the south are so poor.
Not a one of you people have said what the real problem with Solyndra was, that nobody saw fit to protect that investment, by restricting imports of solar panels made in CHINA. of which they flooded the market with so that this company would fail. Not the Dems or Repubs saw fit to do this. Therefore the only conclusion I can come up with, is either both parties are to stupid to look ahead, and realize that's exactly what CHINA would do. Or some one wanted this to happen. And that was done for political gain at the expense of the country. It is always the middle class that suffers. More than 1200 people lost their jobs over this. This is what Odumbo campaigned on. Energy jobs that were suppose to stay in this country. Energy products that were going to be used in this country, and made in this country. So big business steps in and says they're an American company and their company makes these products and why can't they import from their company that is say in China or VIEt"NAM or some other cheap labor market. And that is why I have no use for any political party. They are one and the same, it's nothing more than a scam put on the middle class, the poor don't make enough money live on, so they don't pay any taxes and the rich get to pay little or no taxes. IE GE who by the way is building a plant in CHINA and GE is shipping 20,000 jobs over there and shutting down operation for the American plant here. So tell me it's not a scam. Yeah right Your all full of sh!t.
Barlow, you're right. It's a race to the bottom for Republicans. How quickly can we reduce wages, cut spending, remove any regulation (in the name of jobs) to rape us all, and cut taxes for the rich for doing it.
It's really sad that the Teaparty will argue this despite cutting their own thoats.
Skip,
As you perused through the comments did you find that reading posts that use the words "Faux news", "Tea-baggers", "Bush's fault", "Rich white men", and "GOP scum" added anything of real substance to the debates going on around here either? I'm sure you get quite a chuckle getting to read such thoughtful contributions from the left. There is trash on both sides. Your willingness to ignore posts on this site does not impress me so much as it confirms your inability to process much more than the slanted drivel of uninformed progressives. I understand this may be difficult for you to hear, but Obama (Barry himself), is by and large a failure any way you look at it. Now proceed to tell me I'm wrong based on, a) The mess he inherited, b) The "party of no" standing in his way, or c) my own false assumptions that Big Government Bailouts were somehow not successful, or d) all of the above. I guess you could also attack my credibility by labeling me an ultraconservative with no real knowledge except for the talking points I get from Hannity or Limbaugh. Here's the kicker Skip, I have no loyalty to either the GOP or Democrats. And it is in this way that I can stand here and use common sense to accept that both parties have their share of problems - The type of critical thinking skill you seem to lack.
Good the see the HATE RHETORIC is on full throttle today.. From Both sides, no wonder nothing gets done!
I don't think TAX Increases accomplish anything, The Government needs to be run more efficiently and nothing would accomplish that like a reduced budget..
However for the REPUBLICANS or So Called Conservatives, if you think anything is going to change with Obama gone? Sorry your delusional.. The Political game is officially in the Tank and by listening to some of the commentary on here, sounds like a lot of you are as well. Good Luck SHEEP!
RON PAUL 2012 - A true Conservative
BTW - I received an Email from my best friend who works for a City Planner somewhere in the USA (No Names). He told me The Tea Party organized a rally to protest The Mayor and his opposition to this Company building a plant on their Coast.. The Mayor (Independent) was opposed to a Tax Structure Originally proposed by the Outgoing Mayor (Republican) which basically allowed for Tax Payers to fit the bill for their Waist Product disposal, approximately 240 thousand a year. The Tea Party organizer claimed the Mayor was blocking job growth, The plant mostly automated would employ approximately 30 to 40 jobs depending on production. The highest paying job 36,800 and the rest Minimum wage..
So in other words the Tea Party is fighting for a Private Company to be subsidized..
I figured it would only be a matter of time before the Tea Party began to be exploited by the Same Old Codgers... I hope this story gets National Attention soon. Because Corporate Well Fare is alive and well.
As usual, Mr. Obama offers no viable solution. Just another pie in the sky, kick the can down the road answer that doesn't help.
10 years out? What about this year? What about next year? Where is the budget? Where are the SPENDING CUTS?
Anyone else notice that Obama doesn't make any proposals for this year? Nothing that can hurt his reelection campaign, because that is what it's all about....him getting reelected. The hell with our children, the hell with the future of this country....the only thing the man cares about is his ego. If he was the least bit serious, he'd be combing through THIS YEAR'S government spending, department by department. He would be giving up some of his obscene "discretionary spending", he would be working towards a balanced budget.
Gharms: Class warfare is something already built into the tax code along with the special loopholes and credits etc. So you are arguing that Republicans as well use it as they legislated most of those loopholes and such. You said:
Analytical thinking is not using GOP talking points either. Your phrase is prime example -- class warfare. Another silly talking point not worth any time or thought. In fact a rather populist phrase wouldn't you say.
Ahhhhh, what a relaxing and pleasant experience it is reading FIRST READ without the "nattering nabobs of negativity." I strongly suggest the rest of you (at least those who don't need the group therapy session) try it. Just hit that "ignore author" bar and enjoy peace and tranquility.
As I have often said, I would be happy to listen to any rational discussion of the issues facing this country. But I don't subject myself to the propaganda put forth by FOX or Limbaugh so why should I put up with it here? Why did it take me so long to figure this out.
Why, I'll bet my doctor will be able to take me off my blood pressure medication in a couple of months.
America held hostage, day 262
Obama/Biden 2012
JoAnna,
I can answer the question that the liberals keep avoiding. They would like the rich to give all their money to the government and when it does not even put a dent in the deficit, it will be because the rich do not make enough, not that the spending is out of control.
Here is the underlying problem with the Liberal Probgressive Teabaggee's. They demonize the rich business owners yet romanticize the socialist ideologues, who also happen to be wealthy. This is the hypocrisy that has been indoctrinated into the narrow-minded social and economic justice for the collective.
Of course the Liberal Progressives will always respond with Rush, however, he doesn't pose as a comedian and inject his ideology into it. The projection of the Left is amusing. The Liberal Progressives demonize the wealthy but at the same time demand that they continue to fund their unsustainable socialist utopia. Why should anyone be required to assist an ideology they don't believe in? Progressives have created the massive entitlement and social program debt that will collapse our economy but of course Barrack Hussein refuses to address it. As the European Union collapses under the weight of its socialism and refuses to Draconian austerity moves it will take the global markets down with it. Yes, the Fed, IMF, Germany and others will attempt to stem the fall but it is inevitable without significant reduction in government size and scope. It's ironic that Merkel and Sarkozy have demanded that the Euro dollar nations incorporate balanced budget amendments in their Constitutions. Of course the Liberal Progressives and media will never focus on that as the Republicans offered that in Cut, Cap and Balance. Instead they will espouse their usual failings of tax and spend until the recently added $2.4 TRILLION increase in the debt ceiling is gone by 2013 and then demand they need more of our hard earned tax dollars.
I wonder how the ratings agencies will react when our National Debt is $17 TRILLION Dollars and this ridiculous "Super Committee's" reductions never take effect as they are back loaded into the future? If it was up to me I'd let Barrack Hussein win in 2012 and watch as our bond rating is further downgraded from what the Democrats caused to begin with. Unfortunately the resulting crash will make the Depression look like a windfall. Our only real hope is that America wakes up from its nearly 100 year hibernation as Progressivism destroyed our nation and realize they made a horrible mistake in 2008. Today we once again see that when Barrack Hussein speaks about the economy the market is down over 200 points. The uncertainty is just being made more obvious as this pathetic socialist administration continues to wreak havoc on the once strongest economy in history.
I guarantee you NONE of the tax increases or deficit reduction moves will be obligated to paying off the massive Debt we have. It will be redistributed to government programs, cronies and the goonions as assurance for elections and repayment for past favoritism. This is the shame we have allowed by a government that is too big and too dysfunctional.
In a nutshell Skip gives us the thinking process of the entire progressive movement.
"Let's not hear anything negative, everything is good in the world, I'll only read Moveon and Thinkprogress who agree with my opinions since I'm always right and anyone that disagrees with me is negative"
Too bad there aren't enough critical thinkers on the progressive side...just a bunch of sheeple. Then again, if someone was a critical thinker, they would probably see the progressive, liberal spending movement as destructive and no longer be on that side.
You're right...Ron Paul, who is a doctor, knows nothing about any of these things....not like a community organizer would. Or a trophy wife like Nancy Pelosi....I'm sure she's much more up to date on science. Talk about a misinformed, clueless statement...You do realize that Bachmann's far right religious ideology is only representative of a few % of the teaparty don't you?
and how many jobs did Solyndra, Fast and Furious and the Gibson raid produce? Way to go Liberals!!! thank you for helping so much!
You're correct....legitimate voters would like to see that only legitimate voters vote. We would like to see the union books, how much the union bosses make, how much they contribute and whether or not people will work without unions. No, we can't have anyone innocent sentenced to death, we should continue paying for the guilty ones forever because they deserve cable tv, education, conjugal visits, etc. Also, we are tired of the "NO" stall tactics.....please inform Harry Reid that he should do his job and bring House bills up for vote.
Skip Nicholson has a point. I don't see any reason for someone to refer to the president in that manner unless they're trying to bait people into an argument. Replying to them usually results in some condescending comment. Generally the people who post the best conservative comments refrain from using that type of rhetoric.
To Feisty, Bev and all the other Dems on this thread:
In your opinion, would your party ever consider nominating Hillary in '12 rather than obama? There is no question she should have been your nominee in '08, hindsight has proven that, and Obama will not win in '12, period. I would have voted for her, and I believe she, too could have beaten McCain. We would ALL be so much better off if the Dems hadn't thrown her under the bus.
I think she will run, to much chatter in the Party at the moment.. Where there is smoke there is fire..
No, at this point I would not consider voting for Hillary. Don't get me wrong I love Hillary and voted for her the first time around but I doubt very, very much she will run and split the vote letting in one of those horrible animals called GOPTP win. I would seriously question it should she decide to run.
Okay....I was just over at Faux news on their rinky dinky site trying to educate the unwashed for a couple of hours...it's someone elses turn. I couldn't even get something to post. I think it's because it was about Norquist. Those people are really, really paranoid and talk about censorship. Just think what would happen if by some really really freak accident they happened to get in.
By the way I don't get why the wealthy are whining. Who do they think was picking up their tax tab when they weren't paying? That's right...us...the middle class. It's about time they got off welfare and starting paying THEIR FAIR SHARE.
Rico,
I don't understand. Yes, a small number of ultra-elite (talking about hundreds to possibly a couple thousand - The Buffett types) pay a smaller percentage in income taxes than middle to upper middle class citizens. It's annoying. However, millions of Americans, "wealthy", in the top 10% pay 70% of all paid income taxes in a 35% bracket. I'm not saying that the middle isn't being stretched thin. There is a growing gap, and we are in a recession. But could someone please explain what you mean by saying "fair share". Or is all the yelling really directed at the richest .001%?
Gee Dave, do you feel the same about those who call the Tea Party "Baggers" "TeaNuts" "Teapublicans" and the equally rude names for Republicans and Conservatives? These are so tiresome, and Mr. Skip has used them as well. It is obvious he is only interested in the Utopia in his head and not what is really going on in America. That is his right, but, rubbing his personal blinders in our faces is pointless.
Rico - actually China is taking up the slack, not the Middle class. That alone should encourage EVERYONE to pressure Washington to stop and get responsible. They've been allowed to engage in irresponsible spending for too long. They should have stopped this decades ago.
I heard that no Democrat wants to step up and run against Obama, as they would be labeled as the Democratic candidate that went up against the first Black President. It is unfortunate that these folks are still playing the race card instead standing up for the truth. The truth is his Presidency has drug our country even lower than it was when he was elected. The majority no longer think another 4 years is a good thing. If the Democrats want to retain control, they NEED someone else to step forward and promise not to do what Obama has done. That would probably swing the vote substantially.
Bottom line.....color has nothing to do with it.
@ Willowbrook
Yes, some liberals post rude comments, and I don't much care for it either. But instead of accusing Skip of hypocrisy, wouldn't it have been better to agree the blatant disrespect shown for President Obama is wrong, and then agree that people on both sides could be more cordial? I don't , care much for people who make fun of Speaker Boehner and I don't like people refering to President Bush as "Shrub," and I'm definately not a fan of either one. Go back and read my post again, and tell me if you can honestly disagree with what I said about people's comments.
The point where I agree with Skip is that if I am not going to respond to people who seem to be baiting people only for an argument, what's the point reading their posts? If all they want to do is talk down to people and argue?
Joe-755363
ROTFLMAO!!!!
I see your hopeless attempts at rationalizing with the Liberal Progressive TeaBaggee's here on "First Read". I advise you to be very simple and adolescent in your posts. You'll notice there are about 20-25 of the same people who repeatedly mentally masturbate over each other with their little cutesy sayings and the DNC talking points. Their arguments usually revolve around classism, racism, hate, fear-mongering and blame. You NEVER hear them even mention American exceptionalism let alone strive to achieve it.
The Liberal Progressive mind dwells on self-pity as they are no longer able to care for themselves. They have become so indoctrinated in the social and economic justice propaganda of the collective that they no longer have any self- identity or ambition. Their lives depend on a corrupt, bloated, omnipotent nanny-state ruled by elitists from Ivy League schools of which many have never had a real job. They have been stuck in academia and believe the socialist propaganda of Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Carter and now, Barrack Hussein.
It never ceases to amaze me how they promote socialism, demonize wealth creation, yet demand that the mean, nasty, greedy, rich pay for their failing ideologies. This is the true delusion and disease of Progressivism. Socialism and its attendant ideologies have been, are and will forever be unsustainable. The Liberal Progressive has been stripped of any independence they were born with and in its place substituted reliance. Reliance on a wet-dream of utopia where everyone is equal, except for themselves. They require an unending flow of wealth and success to exist in their entitlement driven hysteria of equality for all. They can no longer be competitive in the free-market due to their submission to the collective and now require more and more of everyone else’s wealth and success to just survive.
In the Liberal Progressive mind, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" has been replaced with "From each according to his ability, to each according to his wants". The shameful part is that they don't even realize what their ideology has been reduced to. Their greatest contribution can be summed up by the fact that in 1960 the poverty level was 14%, fifty one years later, and $19 TRILLION Dollars squandered, the poverty level is 15.1%. Only in the Liberal Progressive Teabaggee mind can this make sense. Of course their only solution is to pour more money into their unsustainable social programs.
Greece WILL collapse any day now. When that happens the domino effect through the European Union will shake the foundation of all the economies in the world. The response will be further uncertainty, fear and resistance to invest. With Barrack Hussein’s ignorance added to this, our economy will come to a screeching halt. The result will be, at best, a double-dip recessions, and at worst, a second Depression. The Liberal Progressives demand the rich pay MORE of the "fair share" yet in the same breath they demand they create jobs. This is the insanity of the Liberal mind. Progressivism is no more associated with progress than anything else. If anything it is REGRESSIVE. No one growing up hopes to be a middle class citizen or to be “equal”, they all want to be rich someday. This is how delusional the Liberal mind has become. The elitists continually drive mediocrity into their lemming’s heads and expect them to accept it while they become the bourgeoisie. As they assume their lofty positions of leadership the mindless, useful idiots will be granted their positions in the proletariat and be told its best for them. Anytime the drive for exceptionalism is replaced with mediocrity warning buzzers should be going off. In the Liberal Progressive mind this is accepted as the best they can ever achieve and their submission is complete.
Our only hope as a Federal Constitutional Republic, built around individual success and excellence, is to make sure Progressivism is reduced to the ash-heap of historic socialist failures and never allowed to rear its ugly head again.
(By the way, a “teabaggee” is the one who accepts the bag from the teabaggers. You can find a more descriptive definition here, urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabaggee)
Dave I see what you say, but my point is that it is all equally disrespectful. You singled out the President in the post 1.107. I was responding directly to that post. If you had a previous post, I missed it. And frankly, I found Skip's post to be either baiting, or he had "partook in recreational substances" way too much to post rationally and with common courtesy.
@ Willowbrook
markmich's comments (above) are a perfect example of my point. Unless I just want to argue, there is nothing is his post to discuss. It's simply an insult filled rant targeted toward people with a different political perspective. Is there any real value gained by reading that post, even for an ultra conservative? If posts like that one are the only regular comments made by a particular person, why would anyone not consider just ignoring them?
@ Willowbrook
I'd like to make one quick last comment, since you seem willing to have an adult conversation. I agree that comments on both sides are often disrespectful. I served in the military for most of my adult life, and I draw the line at disrepectful or contemptuous comments directed toward elected officials in high office. A lot of posters don't explain why they disagree with our president's actions, they insult and slander the president as an individual. That is what I have a problem with, no matter who is holding the office. Disagree with our president, but show the elected leader of our nation a little respect, no matter who it is.
@ Dave,
I agree that we should give the Office of President the respect due the office, even if we disagree with the actions of the person holding the office. Many do not understand, (or possibly care) that they are personally insulting a person/office. Their comments are channeling their anger in a non-productive manner.
I have to go, many things to do this week.
Thank you for your service to our country.
How many times and different ways do we need to say this??
In terms of types of financial wealth, the top 1% of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity.
The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate.
Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America.
Google: Who Rules America.......it's fascinating!
They may or may not pay 70% of the taxes...they have 80-90% of all the wealth!
Isn't that a HUGE reason that they should pay their fair share??
Although some of the information I've relied upon to create this section on executives' vs. workers' pay is a few years old now, the AFL/CIO provides up-to-date information on CEO salaries at their Web site.
There, you can learn that the median compensation for CEO's in all industries as of early 2010 is $3.9 million;
it's $10.6 million for the companies listed in Standard and Poor's 500,
and $19.8 million for the companies listed in the Dow-Jones Industrial Average.
Since the median worker's pay is about $36,000, then you can quickly calculate that CEOs in general make 100 times as much as the workers,
that CEO's of S&P 500 firms make almost 300 times as much,
and that CEOs at the Dow-Jones companies make 550 times as much.
(For a more recent update on CEOs' pay, see "The Drought Is Over (At Least for CEOs)" at NYTimes.com; the article reports that the median compensation for CEOs at 200 major companies was $9.6 million in 2010 -- up by about 12% over 2009 and generally equal to or surpassing pre-recession levels. For specific information about some of the top CEOs, see /executive_compensation.
From: Who Rules America....google it.
Credit: Reuters/File
WASHINGTON | Mon Aug 25, 2008
9:43am EDT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tax and accounting loopholes that largely benefit rich taxpayers and companies cost the government $20 billion a year even as the pay gap between chief executives and employees has widened, two groups said on Monday.
The biggest loss comes from a "stock option accounting double standard" that allows corporations paying executives stock options to deduct more than their actual expenses, they said.
For example, when UnitedHealth Group Inc paid CEO William McGuire 9 million stock options, it put on its financial statement that the compensation cost the company nothing, according to the Institute for Policy Studies and the group United for a Fair Economy.
But it claimed a tax deduction of $317.7 million, the groups said.
That practice alone costs the U.S. government $10 billion a year, the groups said.
A practice known as deferred compensation -- which allows executives to defer an unlimited amount of pay -- costs the government $80.6 million a year, while other loopholes bring the total lost tax revenue to $20 billion, the groups said.
"It's outrageous that our tax dollars are inflating executive paychecks," said Sarah Anderson, an author of the report. "Surely in these troubled economic times we can find better ways to spend our nation's wealth."
The report said large U.S. companies paid CEOs an average $10.5 million in compensation last year, 344 times what the average worker earned.
That gap is expected to grow as the industries adding workers are those with the biggest pay gaps, the groups said.
(Reporting by Diane Bartz; Editing by Braden Reddall)
If you're this wealthy......PAY YOUR DAMN FAIR SHARE
skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City
Hmmmmmm,
Well skippy, I wonder if you're as benevolent with the ignore button for the vitriol spewed from your Liberal Progressive comrades here on FR?
Lemme see, from the very first post by "Feisty Deadhead" we get,
"tea bagger", "Weeper of the House", "GNOP" and Teapublicans.
But don't worry, it gets better.
crazy-carnival barkers, Wretched Gretchen, Tea-Nuts, baby monkeys @ FAUX NEWS, Limpballs, Oxycontin Man, F-U Douschebag party, Right wing scum and I can continue if you like.
I know, I know, you'll beg that you're just censoring the rants against Obama, right?
I wonder if you were so cavalier when your Liberal Progressive ilk were, and continue to, call Bush, Shrub, Dubya, Dumya, Chimp, Junior, AWOL, and on and on?
I doubt it skippy.
And if you need more evidence of the Liberal Progressive hatred and vitriol just scan down this link and see how "civil" YOUR party is.
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621
And PULEEEEEEZ STOP with the insulting claim that you are some kind of independent. You're as much an Independent as Barrack Hussein is white.
I suppose your incessant praise of the Republicans by calling them "RWNJ" means Real Working Nice Joes, right?
Your Liberal Progressive hypocrisy is only exceeded by your ignorance.
rico - even if we took EVERYTHING the richest had, it will still not bring us up to even. That is how far out of sync revenue vs. spending is. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Additionally, if the govt. would clear the path to job creation instead of wasting time on things like the President's "jobs bill," we would have more Americans working and more taxes going to the govt. Another win, win would be to stop any entitlement spending on Illegals, that is costing us billions every month. It would encourage them to leave, thereby creating more jobs for Americans, once again, who will be paying taxes to the govt. There are many more examples of how the govt. is wasting tax money. We need to start chipping away at the huge pile of wasteful spending.
We are on the same path as Greece. We need to turn back now. It can be done. I live in Ohio, who recently was upgraded by the rating agencies due to the budget balancing work of the Governor and the Republicans. We were 8 billion in the red. And they didn't raise taxes. Why can't the Federal govt. do that? Because they choose not to. To busy buying votes for the next election.
The GOP will stop at nothing to seize power, even if that means making America bend over and spread 'em. Obama could draft the greatest plan to come down the pike since Hector was a pup, but the Grossly Overrated Party would only shout, "No, no, no, I really mean no!"
Unless someone saner than Perry takes center stage, expect another four years of President Obama. He has my vote, even if he's not as progressive as we thought.
Fantastic posts, Rico. Conservatives don't want us to notice the wealthy elites are benefiting BOTH from rapidly increasing compensation AND a sweetheart deal on taxes, while the middle class withers and dies. So to try to keep us from talking about this important issue they try to divert the conversation with "what if Hillary Clinton ran for President" and whining about posters with whom they disagree.
You brought the conversation back where it belongs. The rich pay an effective tax rate of 17% compared to the middle class effective tax rate of around 25%. There simply is no scenario in which this is appropriate.
John B - the conversation is not about "taxing the rich will solve our economic problems." This is about the President's "jobs bill" and the effect it will have on the economy. And I love it when I'm correct. This morning Dave Ramsey was on CBS and they questioned him concerning the bill and how it will help small business, which employs 51% of the population. Just as I have said, he said it wouldn't. The $4000 tax credit is meaningless, and will not be a reason to hire.
Additionally, taxing the rich, will have little effect on the economy as well, and if anything, will probably cause it to stagnate just a bit more. And will discourage those who are right under the limit from going over to the higher tax rate. I heard a story once conerning an actor, Ronald Reagan, I believe, who only did so many movies a year.... Why, if he did that next movie, he moved up a tax bracket into one that took the majority of his income for taxes. For him, it created a "vacation" as he didn't see the point of him doing all that work and then giving the majority of HIS income to the govt.
John, we still need to clear the pathway blocking job creation and to INSIST the govt. stop wasteful spending.
President Obama will speak today from the Brent Spence Bridge about his long-term debt reduction package:
Washington Post: "Outdated and overcrowded, the Brent Spence Bridge linking Ohio and Kentucky carries hundreds of thousands of vehicles a day and billions in goods a year...an example of a lagging infrastructure fix plucked from the states of Republican leadership in Congress.....Local officials say 4 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product gets carted across the bridge, named for a former Kentucky congressman".
"When you break down on this bridge, your life is in danger,” said Steve Arlinghaus, a judge-executive in Kenton County, Ky. The Republican official said the federal government needs to take responsibility to get the bridge fixed."
Studies show that our country's decrepit infrastructure requires about $2T right away to bring it up to date. In days of yore, GOP agreed to do so. But to oppose Obama, so far they're saying No to infrastructure as well as No to job creation.
Homeland Security Newswire: "The report, prepared by Transportation for America (TOA), an advocacy organization made up of business, transportation, and environmental organizations, found that 69,000 bridges are in need of major repairs..."
GOP leadership has blocked all efforts from the left to invest in infrastructure.
Roads and bridges in their states are crumbling. The Bureau of Transportation says approx 12% of nation's bridges are 'structurally deficient'. In 4 out of the 5 states represented by Republicans in Congress, "the range of structurally deficient or functionally obsolete bridges outpaces the national average.' Republicans are opposed to the President's commonsense proposals to invest in improvements, meanwhile the bridges and roads in their states fall apart (see data below). GOP pushed for tax cuts for the affluent over infrastructure spending in the ARRA; and stopped a jobs bill focused on investments in infrastructure in the House.
Why allow GOP congressionals to end yet another plan that will solve our infrastructure problems at the same time as our urgent need for job creation? Leader McConnell (R-KY) is still against infrastructure investment even as the Brent Spence Bridge has shut down due to safety issues.
It is unsafe, unreasonable & beyond all logic to allow our nation's infrastructure to crumble while GOP leaders refuse to act! Is GOP willing to endanger our travel across the US because they want us to blame it on the President? Or/and are they paving the way privatizing our US highway system, charging tolls, etc.?
Here's the data on the crumbling and life-threatening bridges in the states of five Republican Leaders:
OHIO: 27 percent of the bridges Speaker John Boehner’s home state of Ohio are either “structurally deficient or functionally obsolete,” while one-fourth of its roads are considered poor or mediocre. At the heart of the Midwest, Ohio’s share of the national highway system has 171 highway bridges that are structurally deficient. 10 of those bridges are located in Boehner’s own district. Indeed, Obama singled out the Brent-Spence bridge connecting Ohio and Kentucky as “one of the busiest trucking routes in North America.” A recent Cincinnati Enquirer investigation into the bridge noted that it “is one of only 15 major interstate bridges in the country labeled by the federal government as ‘functionally obsolete’ for failure to meet safety or traffic flow standards.”
KENTUCKY: More than one-third (34 percent) of the bridges in Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s home state are structurally deficient or obsolete, including the Brent-Spence Bridge. Of those bridges, 108 are located on the national highway system, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Nearly one in five of Kentucky’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
VIRGINIA: In House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s home state, 26 percent of bridges are considered structurally deficient or obsolete, 104 of which are on the national highway system. Nearly one in four of the state’s roads are considered to be in poor or mediocre condition. In Cantor’s congressional district, 11 national highway bridges are considered deficient.
ARIZONA: In Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl’s home state, 12 percent of the bridges are “structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.” Of those in the national highway system, 25 are structurally deficient. Indeed, a recent report found that the poor rural roads and bridges in Arizona, where 21 percent of roads are considered poor or mediocre, have earned the state the eighth highest rural traffic fatality rate in the nation.
CALIFORNIA: Home to House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, California is perhaps most in need of infrastructure improvement. Thirty percent of its bridges are “structurally deficient or fundamentally obsolete.” Though a well-traveled state, California has a whopping 976 bridges on its national highways that are structurally deficient; 24 of those bridges are in McCarthy’s district. California ranks 19th in the nation for percentage of rural bridges that are structurally deficient, and two-thirds of its major roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/crumbling-ohio-river-bridge-jumps-to-prominence-with-mention-in-obamas-jobs-speech/2011/09/09/gIQAkJPZFK_story.html
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/09/315827/report-as-their-states-bridges-and-roads-crumble-gop-leaders-remain-opposed-to-infrastructure-investment/
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/report-finds-thousands-us-bridges-dangerous-need-repair
Detailed user-friendly interactive on the WHsite gives overvew of AJA, and quick look-up state-by-state: http://www.whitehouse.gov/jobsact
Obama wants to tax the rich for what appears to be spite. Anyone that is successful in this country is the enemy of the Liberals. Either that, or a cash cow. Or both
I'm sorry, my memory must be faulty. I seem to recall an $840 stimulous bill in 2009 that was supposed to do all sorts of infrastructure repair. There were all these shovel ready jobs that would be filled.
Then, my faulty memory tells me, Obama admitted there were no shovel ready jobs- joked about it, in fact. Seems most of the money went I to his big campaign donors' pockets- like George Kaiser, for Solyndra.
I also recall that, just before the summer of 2009, Obama promised that his stimulous would create 600,000 jobs between June and September. Since that never happened, why does he think we are dumb enough to believe his new spending bill will create 1.9 million new jobs?
Cause, I'm here to tell you- it won't. All it will do is act as a honeypot to attract donors to his campaign- with the promise of tenfold repayment on their "investment".
Obama may think we're all idiots- after all, we elected him once- but he's about to find out that there is truth in that old adage about fooling people once.
He did not learn in 2010, he did not learn last week- he is sure as heck going to learn next year.
Obama shelved in 2012.
JoAnnaSmith1 @2.1===What a stupid statement, even for you to make.
Populist= Class Warfare.
Great post to start the week, Backhouse. We can no longer afford to give the wealthy elites preferential tax treatment while our essential infrastructure falls to pieces. It just is beyond understanding why Conservatives have a religious devotion to making sure the very rich pay a LOWER EFFECTIVE TAX RATE than people of ordinary means. It's an inequity that simply can't be defended. Conservatives won't even try. They'll just scream class warfare while continuing their own war on the middle class.
Paul Ryan want s to tax the Middle Class. You know those who've seen their incomes decline measurably in the recent 10 years.
While the WEALTHY have seen their fortunes massively increase. Seems obvious where the tax dollars should come from; but not to a Republican.
Obvious is not something they 'get'.
Maybe we should all be asking this: where has all the billions of dollars that we have been paying in state and federal gas taxes and tolls gone the last 40 or 50 years? Isn't all of that money supposed to be used to maintain our roads and bridges? Start looking there, Backhouse, instead of asking for more money that will probably be wasted.
@Navy (errr I mean Backhouse) -- So are all these bridge projects ready to go??? Have the bids gone out and the contractors waiting in anxious anticipation??? If not, how will the bidding process be streamlined to make sure no disasters will happen???? Will the contracts be awarded on the best qualified and lowest bid to save the taxpayers money???? When do you see the first shovel turning dirt if this portion of the AJA is passed. C'mon Navy (darn I mean Backhouse) enlighten us.
This country needs some real "class warfare", not the kind that we have had for the past twenty years where only the rich are fighting for what they want.
That would be too simple a question, a question the Liberals could never answer. If you talk to a Liberal Loon, they'll explain we've spent $0 on bridges, roads, and the "infrastructure" they just love to babble on and on about. In fact we spend hundreds of billions every year on these projects. And now the Liberal Loons are giving the same song and dance they gave just 2 years ago when Obama was going to solve all the problems with Failed Stimulus I. Failed Stimulus I was so badly managed and such a failure, now Obama wants Failed Stimulus II to make it up for it, and the Loons cheer for it in unison. Liberal Loons for some reason just love failure.
One more time, liberals- the IRS does not collect rates. It collects dollars.
Thirty five percent of one hundred thousand is a lot less than seventeen percent of one hundred million. Do the math.
You allow yourselves to be drugged into trances by catchphrases. Do you ever take calculator in hand and figure things out for yourselves?
Not bloody likely, or you, too, would be aghast at a president blithely intoning a "rule" regarding a billionaire who breezily calls for higher taxes- when he, himself, is fighting tooth and nail against paying $4 billion in back taxes he does, in fact, owe. The same billionaire who sheltered his own wealth from estate taxes, and gives lessons to other wealthy people on how to do the same.
Take a look at where the money goes- into the pockets of Obama donors. Tell you what- I am all over the idea of repatriating those funds to the Treasury.
Start there- then we'll talk taxes.
Backhouse, is this for real? This is exactly what happens on First Read every day!
@Navy (ohh I mean Backhouse) -- I'd say it's a pretty sound playbook. The knowledge of its existence means absolutely nothing. Strategies are common on both sides-- nothing new (yawn).
Backhouse - which is the exact reason I ignore liberals that deflect points. Liberals think they are too smart, but knowing their tactics has advantages.
Obama is proposing 3 trillion in deficit reduction over a 10 year period. Is he crazy? In 10 years at our current deficit rate there will be $15 trillion in new deficits... and he proposes to eliminate only $3 trillion? What about the other $12 trillion that will be added to the nations debt?
He proposes to do this by increasing taxes - IN THIS ECONOMY?
I know he's seriously mentally deficient.
Moreover, Brianb, as Obama well knows, one congress cannot dictate to future congresses.
Therefore, these ten year "cuts" are not with the time, effort, or paper they're printed on.
The only way to shrink the deficit is with real cuts now- and a growing economy. Obama knows how to do neither.
Actually no joe... It's not that Obama doesn't know how to do either... in reality he doesn't want to do either. Right now he's pitching to the conservatives... or so he thinks. What he doesn't understand about conservatives is we are thinkers... and do check behind him. His plan sucks.
It's not that I don't mind having my taxes raised... but I will reject any and all tax raises until they show more restraint. Government waste is rampant... they should start there to reduce costs. The defense department has billions in waste every year... I saw it when I was in the military. They can eliminate duplicate programs... do a reduction in force... make government smaller, not larger...
So many ways to improve the efficiency of government but from the Obama White House.... not a single good idea at all!
That's right, Congress sets the rates...and Conservative Republicans in Congress have been remarkably effective at creating an environment in which the rich not only make the most money but get to keep more of what they make than those of us in the middle incomes.
Now THAT is class warfare.
You obviously understand tax revenue as well as you understand the difference between an increase in demand and an increase in the rate of demand.
Ten percent of the people in this country pay 90% of the taxes. Here's a clue- they are not the bottom ten per cent of earners, but the top.
How much more do you want them to pay? You are not entitled to their earnings. Go out, get a job, and start contributing some of your own money to the Treasury.
By the way- I tried, with no result, to teach you about the topic you are so find of spouting about. Now, I'll try showing you a picture.
http://www.bea.gov/National/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=63&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=2009&LastYear=2011
As you can see, it shows "Demand" from quarter I 2009 to date. As you can see, the trough in demand was in quarter II of 2009- with the exception of gasoline and energy- the prices of which have skyrocketed.
Note the demand level for quarter II 2011.
Give the whole demand thing a rest, will you? You just look like a fool, as it is completely obvious that you have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
Way to try to game the debate. Try this one instead; http://www.bea.gov/National/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=63&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=2006&LastYear=2011&3Place=N&Update=Update&JavaBox=no#Mid
It shows that even now demand has barely exceeded the peak that you avoided including in your link. Adjusting for inflation demand is still LOWER than its peak in 2007. And we haven't even touched on continuing population increases, which would mean that population per capita is still FAR LOWER than it was in 2007. As far as inflation in gasoline is concerned, when will Republicans stop blocking regulation to prevent predatory speculation in that market?
Nice try. It looks like even you realize your arguments have no basis in reality, since you chose a timeline that deliberately excludes the data proving my point.
What do Conservatives propose to increase demand?
Amy B, yes
Rove tactics on this post are every bit as 'real' as legitimized bribery via untraceable, $Billions in secret unlimited campaign contributions. During Carter's era citizens ticked a box in agreement to put $3 towards campaign funding, and that was it. No campaigning for funds either.
http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/FINALKARLROVE.pdf
(Apparently am aliasing as Navy....how's about you?)
John.........its their money! its that simple, it belongs to them and you cant have it, no matter how bad you want it. You want to save this country? Send in a check....... Use your debit card and send them $20 a month anything. Put your money where your mouth is! Besides there are a lot of very rich democrats that will not like this either, I dont even see his own party (the rich ones anyways) supporting this.
And, you don't understand chained dollars, either.
We use a deflator when examining these numbers- it is adjusted periodically, and right now, it is set at 2005 dollars. Therefore, YOU do not need to adjust for inflation- that is done for you, so all those numbers are in terms of constant, or chained, dollars.
Moreover, the table you posted, which goes back to 2006, proves my point- demand recovered to it's pre-recession peak in Quater II 2009- and has risen ever since.
In other words, there IS no demand problem. Your obstinate refusal to give up that failed debate does not render your flawed conclusion correct.
Just admit ypu don't have a clue. You don't, and you are only digging your hole deeper.
Maybe we should have a new national holiday....."Cry for the rich day"...wah,wah,wah,wah
John B
It appears that their 'proposal' is to increase the dishonest rhetoric and to blame the middle class for being too dumb to be the upper class.
Dr. Brzienski mentioned that folly last week.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Backhouse,...nicely played - being compared to Navy is QUITE the accomplishment to us libbies! Good on you!
This is the same whining Obama made during the Debt Ceiling debate, that the spending was already done by previous administrations/congresses, and he needed the debt ceiling raised to cover that spending. But now Obama wants to spend trillions more today and make future congresses and administrations have to pay for it. The man is a hypocrite.
Imagine that?
A actual Doctor versus a nut job from NJ who likes to imitate one on First Read!
You know the one who got her PHD from the 'color me' matchbooks? lol
PS: That's quite a compliment that 'newbie' Ray thinks your Navy! ;o)
Kathryn Sullivan - that would be perfect for the libbies... They are always crying about the rich... They have too much... they haven't given me any... they don't pay their fair share... don't they realize there are poor among us? Geeeez... they lament for doing nothing.
I'm surprised it took that long to invoke one of the articles of religious faith in the church of Conservatism. By uttering this short prayer all facts, all contrary arguments, all reason, and all the needs of society are magically forced into agreement.
Why do the very wealthy get to keep more of their money than the rest of us?
John and Feisty,
S'OK, no bigheadshrinking needed.
But sod's law, ya gotta keep your toupee straight some days.
Another lie. You already stated that there has been inflation in the current economy. 2011 dollars are not 2007 dollars are not 2005 dollars. To make such a statement as one who claims to be learned in the ways of economics you are either a fraud or dishonest. Which is it?
You have disingenuously ignored the point that I made when I posted my link, the one that represents a more honest picture of the recovery than yours. Population has grown and inflation has diluted the value of the dollar. Therefore in real terms demand is still below pre-recession levels.
But thanks for pointing out that the economy has been recovering since early 2009, contrary to what you and others claim here every day.
Another myth about money,...the middle class pay more than they can afford - the wealthy pay far less than they will every feel. So yes, we have Fair AND Balanced,...
The apoplectic screech about THEIR money is priceless when you realize that - especially for Wall Street - they don't actually MAKE anything,...they just skim fees off of transactions. Many of which aren't funded or appropriately vetted. Toxic Assets anyone? so, yeah, they tilt the till to their cronies and then feign outrage at the outcomes.
Pay up, Tax Evaders!
Keep displaying your ignorance.
A deflator is a unit that is used to equalize dollars over a given period of time.
You dint have enough math for me to explain the formula to you- but, if you look at the top of the chart, you will see a line that says "2005=100"
What that means is that the fluctuations of the currency are accounted for- that is to say, inflation has already been factored into the analysis.
These numbers are reported in chained dollars- so that each dollar represents one hundred cents. It works really well, so we are not looking at 2011 dollars, and comparing them to 2006 dollars.
I can't make it any clearer than that. I suggest you look it up. You still won't understand it because you do not have the math for it, but at least you can say you tried.
Clara, Class warfare=
Leaving taxes on the wealthy elites as they are, but raising taxes on everyone else.
Currently, those on the top are the wealthiest group ever in history making the most profits ever in US history.
Ah, what the heck- I'll give it a try.
To get constant, or chained dollars, we use 2005 dollars as the benchmark. Therefore, GDP2011=
GDP2011 divided by Price2011/price 2005= output 2011 minus output 2005.
Got it?
No?
I didn't think so.
I did a search for you, John, although, if you did not understand my formula, you will almost certainly not understand this
http://www.econ.yale.edu/~bb338/econ154a05/ho_1.pdf
You need to READ, and WORK THROUGH, all of it.
But, again, simply- deflators are used to "chain" dollars for a constant. Therefore, all of the dollars in the charts are set at 2005 dollars. Inflation, therefore, is factored FOR YOU. You don't need to do it yourself.
If you do, you screw the values.
Put your socks back on, John, and try this from BEA
You don't understand economics- I get it. But stubborn refusal to admit fact when it is brought to your attention makes you look a fool.
It takes a lot of study, and a lot of math, to truly understand economics- and there are still those who get it as wring as they can- like all those Keynesians who ignore the proofs that destroy their hypotheses.
Reading popular websites and books will NOT educate you. In fact, those are meant to persuade you to a certain point of view.
By the way- that site I sent you to? First year Econ-second semester.
It's not quite as easy as you seem to think.
So, to review- you do NOT need to factor inflation- nor do you need to factor population changes- as that is done using chained dollars.
The current year being used is 2005.
Therefore, all inputs and outputs are measured in 2005 dollars, with a constant rate of consumption.
I get that you still don't understand it, so I'll put it succinctly-
You were wrong. If you still believe what you posted, you are still wrong.
That makes you ineducable, as you seem incapable of admitting you are wrong because you don't understand.
You sure you aren't part of Obama's administration?
For a populist pitch to work, one depends on the short memories of the populace. Unfortunately for obama the internet will always be there to remind the populace of what actually transpired.
Raising taxes is not really the same as tax reform if in turn taxes are then lowered creating a revenue neutral but broader tax base. Rememder obamas state of the union speech on revenue neutral solutions?
What is fair about targeting a small group of households for tax increases while ignoring the broader base. If you are obama you merely look at the broader base as more votes come nov 2012. I have no illusions as to obamas intent if he wins the election in 2012. The tax cuts he signed in dec 2010 will be toast across the board come january 2013. That $3 trillion plus in increased revenue over 10 years will just fuel the insatiable desire of the left to spend, and spend big.
All the taxpayers will be thrown under the bus in 2013, and why should obama care? He can't run again, so he no longer needs the votes
You've done a great deal of work to avoid answering the real question here: Why should the wealthy pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class?
And you still haven't accounted for increase in population. Why does it take 125,000 new jobs per month to keep the unemployment rate level? Because of increasing population. So consumption per capita is STILL less, and no amount of condescension on your part will change that.
johnB - What is "fair" when targeting a minority for increased taxes? Change the tax codes, but change them to apply equally across the board.
The real question remains on what is fair. you want to deflect the argument off of equal tax reform across the board to ways to get the 1% to pay more in income taxes than the 38% they already pay.
John, do you READ?
Again, chained dollars account for BOTH inflation and population differences.
Let me try this again, slowly-
Let's take GDP. If we did not chain the dollars, an increase in GDP of, say, five percent would look pretty good- unless of course the inflation rate was six percent, and we had a population growth of seven percent.
That is the purpose of chained dollars- it keeps constants, so you are comparing apples to apples, not oranges and kumquats.
So, when GDP, in my example, is reported, both the deflator and population changes are reflected.
Just admit you're wrong, did not know anything about it, and stop with the inanities.
You make yourself look foolish.
Rickster,
Don't think Navy would've made the slip up I did today, re the date of the event on the Brent Spence Bridge. Akk, your Ray just thought I was a wannabee....no mystery..
What av you done with Navy, btw?
Obama wants to tax the rich for what appears to be spite. Anyone that is successful in this country is the enemy of the Liberals. Either that, or a cash cow. Or both
If you're as wealthy as the people I'm talking about you wouldn't be HERE.
Once again read THIS and tell me why the rich keep getting richer!
Credit: Reuters/File
WASHINGTON | Mon Aug 25, 2008
9:43am EDT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tax and accounting loopholes that largely benefit rich taxpayers and companies cost the government $20 billion a year even as the pay gap between chief executives and employees has widened, two groups said on Monday.
The biggest loss comes from a "stock option accounting double standard" that allows corporations paying executives stock options to deduct more than their actual expenses, they said.
For example, when UnitedHealth Group Inc paid CEO William McGuire 9 million stock options, it put on its financial statement that the compensation cost the company nothing, according to the Institute for Policy Studies and the group United for a Fair Economy.
But it claimed a tax deduction of $317.7 million, the groups said.
That practice alone costs the U.S. government $10 billion a year, the groups said.
A practice known as deferred compensation -- which allows executives to defer an unlimited amount of pay -- costs the government $80.6 million a year, while other loopholes bring the total lost tax revenue to $20 billion, the groups said.
"It's outrageous that our tax dollars are inflating executive paychecks," said Sarah Anderson, an author of the report. "Surely in these troubled economic times we can find better ways to spend our nation's wealth."
The report said large U.S. companies paid CEOs an average $10.5 million in compensation last year, 344 times what the average worker earned.
That gap is expected to grow as the industries adding workers are those with the biggest pay gaps, the groups said.
(Reporting by Diane Bartz; Editing by Braden Reddall)
They want to live here. They want to make profit here BUT they sure don't want to pay for any of it!
What part of entitled, self centered pig don't you get?
rico - riddle us this then the democrats and obama had plenty of opportunities to address tax reform but REFUSED to do so, are they not complicit in this wealth disparity gap as well.
An interesting sidebar to all this is that the tech companies are always out looking for good help with each seemingly willing to pay more for good help. Other jobs only require minimal or at least plentiful skills that any can master. It seems that business will only pay rthe minimum amount that it takes to keep one on the job. ie, don't have the right skill sets, see ya. Have the right skill sets, what will it take to keep you on board with us.\?
"$1.1 trillion in ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan,"
So he's pretending that something everyone knows about is 'new', so he can use it as an excuse to raise taxes?
Winding down the wars has long been in the projections, so trying to take credit for 'cutting future spending' is bogus, because it was never in the projections to begin with.
NJ, if you wanted to have a legitimate discussion you could have simply shown that chained dollars are an alternate means of calculating inflation to the CPI, one that uses a gradually changing market basket to more accurately reflect what consumers are actually using. You didn't. Instead you immediately went to condescension and insult which was my clue that you were up to something. You put up a vaguely labeled chart with numbers all roughly around 100, indicating the probability that they're percentages.
Here http://www.bea.gov/National/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=264&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=2007&LastYear=2011&3Place=N&Update=Update&JavaBox=no#Mid is a chart from the same US Government source that tells the tale clearly. In your precious chained dollars the data says:
GDP has yet to recover to its pre-recession peak.
GNP has yet to recover to its pre-recession peak.
Per capita disposable income has yet to recover to its pre-recession peak.
Per capita personal consumption expenditures have yet to recover to pre-recession peak.
Per capita consumption of goods have yet to recover to pre-recession peak.
Per capita usage of services has yet to recover to pre-recession peak.
So your claim that the "demand" argument doesn't hold water is bogus. The information is there, in your chosen dollars, from your chosen source.
Conservatives still have no solution for creating demand when there is a lack of that in the economy.
The very wealthy still pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class.
You've not chased me away, nor will you. I'll just continue to prove you're deceptive and dishonest.
Marie Antoinette is alive, well, and living within the Republican Party.
Not only has the majority of ALL tax relief in EVERY Conservative tax cut plan for 3 decades gone to the wealthy, the GOP devotion to Trickle Down economics has gone so far that millionaires and billionaires now actually pay a LOWER effective tax rate than the middle class. With the political world focused on bringing budget deficits under control President Obama is proposing to end this preferential treatment for those who can most afford their taxes. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44563075/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/#.TnZD1-zmsiY The American public is onboard with this move, with large majorities consistently favoring increased taxes on the very rich. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/25/paul-krugman/paul-krugman-said-large-majorities-favor-higher-ta/
How are Republicans responding to this proposal, already dubbed the "Buffett Rule"? They're in a panic to protect the wealthy elites who fund their careers, that's how. Mitch McConnell even cynically proclaimed that if Warren Buffett wants to pay more taxes he should "send in a check." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/44567902#44567902
It doesn't matter how Conservatives spin this, it's a change that's long overdue. The CEO class has managed to pad their own pockets very effectively. While middle class incomes have stagnated for the last generation the wealthy elites have made out like the bandits they are;
http://bostonreview.net/BR36.3/archon_fung_winner_take_all_politics.php
So the richest among us have become very adept at extracting preferential tax treatment at the same time that their incomes have exploded at the expense of the middle class. No wonder their wealth has increased by leaps and bounds at the same time the nest eggs of average Americans has become almost nonexistent. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Warren Buffett has been right a lot in his long career. Here's one more;
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html
Speaking of special treatment:
Liberals get there panties in a bunch when the government subsidies corporations. But then Solyndra comes along, stealing a half of billion of taxpayers dollars, and all of a sudden the Liberals clam up, say it's not a problem, nothing to see here they say. Gee Libs, why aren't you ranting about the "Evil Corporations" when it comes to Solyndra? You're doing everything you can to cover up the stench of the Obama administration playing the same game both you, and the populist Obama, rants against. Turns out it's more than corporate jet owners that are getting too many subsides from the government. I guess it matters only who gets the subsides, right Libs?
Joanna - It's not only Solyndra - It's GE... and how many other companies did Obama endorse for his union buddies and for green? The libbies never rail on about those entities. I'm still wondering how Solyndra went through a half billion in just 2 years... Didn't they see it coming? Didn't they have bookeeping say to the ownership... wait a second bucko's... we're spending too many dollars at one time? What way is that to do business? Maybe they thought going through half a billion would be supplimented by Obama because he was their buddy.
One other thing... When the government was completely controlled by the dems... why didn't they repair the inequity in the tax code to eliminate corporate loopholes? They had all the power and for almost 2 years... They didn't even touch it... I wonder why.... well I really don't wonder why because I know the answer. They didn't want to eliminate them, or even touch them for that matter. Corporate loopholes have a purpose in politics no matter what your flavor is.
ANYTHING to deflect from the fundamental unfairness of taxing the wealthy elites at a lower rate than ordinary Americans, I see. I don't in fact see our FR Conservatives even ATTEMPTING to defend that...only change the subject.
Deflecting John? GE is wealthy, should they pay zero taxes? Because that's what they pay, thanks to a deal they made with at the time Ways and Means Chairman, Charlie Rangel. Solyndra got a sweet deal from the government. The wealthy elites that invested in Solyndra got their money back when it failed, while the taxpayers did not.
Well, as a matter of fact I'm also interested in correcting the tax code so that profitable corporations can't get away with paying zero corporate income taxes, as many of them do every year. Thanks for backing me up on that.
Now, about the fundamental unfairness of the very rich paying lower tax rate than the middle class...
Nearly a year ago, the Presidents own Debt Commission gave a detailed report on correcting the tax code. But Obama never talks about that report. Why is that?
The debt commission didn't have sufficient votes to send an official recommendation to Congress, so it's in the past like President Bush.
But I'm glad you're onboard with increasing the tax burden of corporations.
Hey, one has to admit that this strategy by Obama will be a huge success! He gets to play to his base with his "soak the rich!" screams. That will be enough of a diversion because his base will be so glad that the rich are being soaked that they will fail to realize that they are on the same boat as the rich, so everyone goes down. Now, that's what I call accomplishment. Single-handedly accomplishing what Osama and the rest of the terrorists couldn't accomplish.
Dear witch.
It seems you have forgotten that the fiscal responsible republicans against all common sense gave tax cuts during war time. In the rest of the history of our country, lawmakers were smart enough to know that you raise taxes in war time to pay for them.
Now we have huge debt threatening to destroy this country and all the republicans can think of is protecting the rich. The republicans don't care what happens to America. It's those poor, poor rich people we need to worry about.
You are right, the terrorist could not do what the republicans have done to our country. I am sure our enemies don't want us to raise taxes. They want America weak just like Norquist and the tea party want.
I'm tellin' ya folks, ya gotta use that "ignore" button. It's great. You scroll down reading the support for the President and his policies and just bypass all the usually negativity. As I see their collapsed comments that say simply "author ignored" I say to myself , "Not worthy, not worthy, not worthy...." it's wonderful. You should try it. And they can't make a hateful response to me because I HAVE THEM ON IGNORE! bwahahahaa. It's brilliant!
Go back to FOX and cry your crocodile tears about those mean old liberals. What? I CAN'T HEAR (or read) YOU!
America held hostage, day 262
Obama/Biden 2012
JohnB - cry and whine and try to deceive others all you want, the fact remains that those with wealth pay far more in income taxes than others. When the top 1% pay income taxes to the tune of 38% of the total income taxes collected, that ain't chump change or really unfair regardless on how you, obama or buffet tell it. Reform the tax codes, but apply the reforms accross the board equally among all income groups much in the same manner as the 1986 tax reform was done.
Targeting a very small group of households with tax increases is stupidity in action. Obama cites a 5 ft height of tax codes and how they shouldn't be that high. Now he wants to add to those tax codes by saying these tax deductions are allowable because you don't exceed a given income level, but as soon as you exceed those limits you lose. Perhaps that sounds fair to you and other libs, but to me "fair" says that any deduction applies equally if you make $10k/year or $10 million/year.
Buffets taxes are misleading when he says his effective tax rate is less than his secretary. Buffets salary from berkshie is what? $100k a year? Yet buffet pays several million in taxes/year because of the capital gains tax rate of only 15%. Bet his secretary is happy not to have to pay out the taxes that buffet does.
If buffet wants to expound on how the top 400 millionaires and billionaires need to pay more, fine, Change the tax codes but don't think that the additional taxes collected will significantly impact our economy.
BTW - trickle down works just fine, just look at the rebounding luxury market. maybe if the middle class would only spend more to generate increased demand in the non- luxury markets more jobs would be created. Start spending johnb.
Why is it acceptable for the ultra wealthy to pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class?
Nice try! But, you seem to forget that right after 9/11 the economy took a nosedive. People weren't flying anywhere, resulting in loss to the travel industry, and this led to slowdowns in the rest of the economy. Bush acted quickly and the tax cuts, which the dems went along with, prevented the economy from tanking worst than it did. If the dems and RINOs had listened to Bush's warning about the looming sub-prime mortgage mess, then the 2008 sub-prime mortgage crisis could have been averted.
As for the huge deficits, all you have to do is look at the run-a-way federal spending. Obama has increased federal spending by more than 25% in less than 3 years. That's where the problem is. The Bush tax cuts are very small in comparison to the additional spending. You could double everyone's taxes and you still wouldn't cover the increase in spending.
Why is it that the math that the libs seemed to have learned is that when you take money away from people, that they will then spend more money? What is it about the Obama economy of the last 2 1/2 years, with all that stimulus and spending that has libs wanting more of the same? Considering more was spent on stimulus than is spent on the entire military, you'd think that all that money would have produced some jobs! Yet, unemployment went up, up, up....! Now, we have so many people out of work for so long, that they are not even included in the unemployment figures. But, we need to soak the rich and spend, spend, spend!
john b: They're not!
People who have read my posts understand that I believe the libs have no understanding of economics and the way things work. So, just curious here. Obama has proposed surtaxes on things like private airplanes, and other "big ticket" items that only the rich can afford. So, my question is this: Is it a good idea to impose such surtaxes (of say 25-50 percent of purchase price) on such items, and why?
johnb - change the tax codes, your fake abhorance towards lower rates paid by the wealthy is laughable. For years both the left and the right have created and passed the loopholes. Your ignorance on wanting to always imply blame on the right does not speak well to your reasoning capabilities. Your dots remain unconnected.
the answer you seek is to change the tax codes or outlaw the wealthy from applying them to their expenditures.
JoAnna, when Charlie Rangel , as chairman, made that deal with Solyndra, I guess he figured he had nothing to lose whether Sloyndra did well or not. If they flopped, which they have , the tax payers lose. Charlie doesn't pay his taxes, so NOTHING LOST as far as Charlie is concerned.
Apparently that's true of the Bush Administration as well, since they worked on loans for Solyndra for 2 years and tried to rush approval through to make sure the Obama Administration couldn't take credit.
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/09/15/solyndra-advanced-by-bush-for-2-years-solyndra-timeline/
http://themoderatevoice.com/122532/solyndra-and-bush/
d
Another blogger got me thinking of what LBJ said in early 1968 hiss last comments seems to be appropriate for obama today. Especially in light of his speech this morning.
President Lyndon B. Johnson - March 31, 1968
While being to young to truly understand politically what LBJ was saying since his speech really was directed towards the continuing war in veitnam i reveiwed his speech and noted that the following excerpts are just as appropriate today as back then.
It appears that there was more to LBJ than just being a texan and promoting a failed war on poverty and giving us civil rights and medicare. the full speech is here....http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/lbj-decision.htm
I think all of us should reflect on the above excerpts and how todays washington needs to get their act together. Obama needs to take the greatest heed as he seems to ignore the responsibilities of how the potus is to be the unifier not the divider. LBJ recognized what the potus function was. Why does obama insist on acting the part of partisan senator instead of potus and CEO of America?
Sunday while watching CNN it was reported that Perry had came in second and Romney third in the California straw poll, they did not say who had won, then I switched channels and they reported the results in the same manner, and at the end of the report it was mentioned that Ron Paul had in fact came in first, which was immediately followed by the statement “but it is un-known how much effort the other candidates had put into the poll”, my God it is utterly painful for the media to even mention Ron Pauls name, probably as good a reason as any to support him. The so-called “establishment” really hates this guy, it is amusing watching their coordinated efforts to squelch anything positive about him.
More politics from Obama who claims it is not politics.
Mitch Daniels is supporting President Obama?
Good morning all . . . this weekend, respected commentator George Will did an wonderful job illustrating what is wrong with much of our political "discourse" in this country.
He gave a long and biting soliloquy explaining all the times that President Obama has given a speech in support of things that did not go the way he wanted them to go. According to Mr. Will, this was proof positive that President Obama is just an ineffective spokesperson who likes to hear himself talk. Mr. Will included the President's speech in support of Chicago getting the Olympics . . . and the city being the first eliminated . . . as one of his key examples.
Now, let me ask ya'll something . . . who here actually believes that the Olympic Selection Committee would be swayed in there decision one way or another by a speech given at the end of the process by someone who is not even involved in the planning and preparation of said event? Applying for the Olympics is a process that takes years, even decades, and each city being considered has its strengths and weaknesses, no?
So how in the hell do folks get to get on TV WEEKLY with this level of mindless "analysis"? We have become so used to it, it doesn't even sound funny anymore.
This inability to match reality based causes to the problems we are facing is a constant in our "for profit" news model.
I actually heard Steve Innskeep not too long ago ask Tim Geithner a question about the Obama Administration "promising" the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% . . . I mean this is NPR ya'll . . . we have become very simplistic and lazy in our analysis . . . thus we are rarely working on the actual problems . . . and surprise, surprise . . . no solutions.
More cynicism and misery for the masses . . . more profits and poll numbers for the pundits.
Wake up folks . . . this is not a game.
P.S. How 'bout them Titans JoAnna Smith? lol
Good morning, Nash-
"...we have become very simplistic and lazy in our analysis..."
Nah.
It's just that even the most liberal/progressive media voices disagree with YOUR unique "analysis" of the January 2009 economic forecast prepared by Christina Romer and the rest of the incoming Obama economic team.
They're not buying it either, Nash.
No one is.
Except you.
Nice win for your Titans, by the way.
Bag:
Exactly who in the progressive media are you talking about? All the ones I'm familiar with have pointed out that Republicans are lying when they claim anyone ever promised to keep the unemployment rate under 8% when it was already 7.8% when Romer's report came out.
Luckily Mixed Bag, its not for sale . . . the truth is just the truth. And you still have not provided evidence that anyone in the Obama Administration ever "promised" that unemployment would not go over 8% if the stimulus was passed.
Because they didn't.
Now, if you choose not to accept that, that is fine too. But an estimate is not a promise. An estimate based in information that grossly underestimated the size of the recession is even less of a promise. An estimate that is based on a fictional stimulus, not the one that actually passed Congress is not even comparing apples and oranges. The fact that unemployment was already at 8% when the stimulus was signed is just the cherry on top.
But I repeat myself, because you know this.
Have a great day . . . and my point remains . . . vapid anaylsis of media created nontroversies while the actual problems go unaddressed is a recipe for epic fail.
http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf
The Titans played an excellent game against a very good team. Congrats!
Good morning, Houston.
It's clear you aren't awake yet...although sometimes it's hard to tell either way.
I wasn't actually talking about anyone.
Nash, on the other hand, was evidently talking about comments she heard from Steve Innskeep on NPR.
C'mon and wake up, sleepyhead...
Or, at least try and pay attention.
blah-blah-blah...
"...promised..."
blah-blah-blah...
Semantics, Nash.
It is what it is.
At least Steve Inskeep seems to think so.
I'm with him on this one.
So we should take Obama's promise, ehh, estimate, of his latest job scheme producing 1.9 million jobs with a grain of salt?
Joanna:
I would recommend you take it with a grain of reality, but if you want to add salt too, cool. :o)
Mixed Bag
Good morning, Houston.
I see, you were just writing about a fictional character that sprang up from your fevered imagination.
Am I the only one who remembers Obama's promise that Stimulous I would create 600,000 new jobs during the summer of 2009?
Since that never happened, why on earth should anyone believe his latest claim?
Bag
"Semantics" has to do with the meaning of words. And like Humpty Dumpty, Bag thinks words should mean whatever he wants them to. So the word "promise" means the same thing as "estimate" in until he wants them to mean something else.
Houston-
When are you going to notice that most of our exchanges result from you being unwilling or unable to comprehend the context (or even the content) of something I've posted?
It's really quite amusing, actually.
You're so silly.
Houston-
Shouldn't you be taking your argument to Steve Inskeep over at NPR?
According to Nash, he's the one claiming the Obama Administration "promised" something.
Weren't you looking for someone in the "progressive media" holding that view?
no joe, no bo, nj
I remember that the US was losing jobs at the incredible rate of 700,000 per month when Obama first took office and that the economy started adding jobs after the stimulus was passed.
You would remember that!
Mixed Bag
First you said you were talking about "the most liberal/progressive media voices." Then you said "I wasn't actually talking about anyone," and now you say you were talking about Inskeep (who is certainly NOT among the most liberal/progressive media voices). Are there three different people posting under the same screen name, or are you just trying to stay one step ahead of admitting you're just slinging barn-yard fertilizer?
Good morning Nashville_fan
Nash
I actually heard Steve Innskeep not too long ago ask Tim Geithner a question about the Obama Administration "promising" the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8% . . . I mean this is NPR ya'll . . . we have become very simplistic and lazy in our analysis . . . thus we are rarely working on the actual problems . . . and surprise, surprise . . . no solutions.
Actually Nash as you wrote in your diary @ Daily Kos President Obama never said the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8%. I 've also found out the projection was if we did nothing, it would have been worst. The stimulus was too small.
Most carnival barkers in the Tea-Party and Republicans only accept only one thing; for sure bash President Obama
Why There Are Protests On Wall Street: Their Actions Impoverished More Than 60 Million People
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/18/321844/why-people-protest-wall-street/
============================================================
My question is why does the media only cover teabaggers and firebaggers?
The answer is obvious. The MSM is the pocket of RepubliCan'ts.
No, Houston.
As usual, you're confused...so let's keep it simple.
In Nash's post at the top of the thread, she expressed alarm at the comments of Steve Inskeep at NPR.
And yes, Houston (athough the bias may be imperceptable to you)...
NPR actually is one of the prominent liberal/progressive media outlets.
And, Nash said:
"...I mean this is NPR, ya'll..."
Get it?
Sigh...probably not.
You can't help being silly, can you Houston?
:-)
To refresh your memory, Houstin
His latest spending plan is meant to do the same thing as the first- put money in the pcokets of his donors.
Difference is, thia time, he's not getting the money.
no joe:
Thank you for posting that excellent example of lazy jounalism.
I rest my case.
"I rest my case."
Uh, no Nash.
You haven't made a case.
Mixed Bag
Nope, I'm not confused. I see exactly what you're doing. When I shoot down one of your silly comments, you pretend you had said something entirely different from what you had actually said. Then when your second claim gets shot down, you denied having said that as well. And so on ad absurdum. I didn't come up with the expression "like trying to nail Jello to a wall" but it definitely applies to you. You may think your transparent dishonesty is clever. Simpletons often do.
Houston-
I'll defer to your intimate familiarity with how "simpletons" reason.
Tell us a bit more, from the inside of that sort of mind.
Just don't forget...you started us down this road.
After name-calling...what else do you actually have, Houston?
Nothing, really.
You've demonstrated that again and again.
Looks like a tag team effort, MB.
Above, I haw John B, denying the existence of chained dollars- and calling my attempts to educate him about same "lies".
Sometimes I think they do it on purpose to make us so frustrated we stop bothering.
The fact that they make themselves look like fools never enters their minds.
On the other hand- they could not, really, be that dumb, could they?
[When I shoot down one of your silly comments, you pretend you had said something entirely different from what you had actually said.]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno
Why would I be frustrated, no joe?
I'm going toe-to-toe with Houston...and NOW, Mickey, NY for heavenssakes!
(lol)
NOT Daniel Patrick Moynihan!
You think he EVER had to resort to schoolyard name-calling?
Hardly.
But with my pal Houston (you too, Mickey)...I'll certainly return serve.
Again, no joe...
lol
[I'm going toe-to-toe with Houston...and NOW, Mickey, NY]
Not going t2t with anyone, MB...merely making an observation. You lose a debate with Houston and Nash, and you start backpedalling like a circus clown...lol...
...much like you did with Anna and me on your "Solyndra" comments...
...whew!...
...and here I thought it was just me...and Anna...
...carry on with the backpedalling...it's very entertaining...but you are a trained professional, no? ;)
Says the bag boy, perched safely atop his step ladder!
Mickey, NY-
Houston has accused me of engaging in "brainless teabaggery" (I have my faults, but HONESTLY!).
And now, he's called me a "simpleton"! In spite of his OWN glaringly apparent intellectual shortcomings!
Unexpectedly (and sad to say)...you're actually aligning with Houston!
That said...
Mick.
Remember?
"How about we make a pact to keep the debate civil in the future? I'm certainly going to do my best to hold up my end of the bargain?"
If you think that calling someone a "simpleton" is civil...I guess we need to talk about the definition of civility.
Is that really your "best" effort?
I'm OK either way, bud.
If that's your view...it's all good.
Just don't be such a hypocrite, Mickey.
I see NJ is trumpeting still playing to technicality while ignoring the elephant in the room...per capita consumption is STILL down and she STILL refuses to even address the issue of the very rich paying a much lower effective tax rate than the middle class. Meanwhile Paul Ryan proposes raising taxes on that same middle class.
Now THAT is class warfare.
Reading comprehension ia not your strong suit, is it, John?
I gave you a passage from BEA that spelled out for you that both inflation and per capital consumption are accounted for in chained dollars, where, today, 2005=100.
You don't understand it. Too bad. That does not render it untrue.
As to taxes, I said before, but you are too mathematically challenged to understand it, that the IRS does not collect rates- it collects dollars.
Thirty five percent of one hundred thousand is thirty five thousand.
Seventeen percent of one hundred million ia seventeen million.
Seventeen million is greater than thirty five thousand.
Use a calculator, for crying out loud.
And, please, quit trying to pretend you know anything at all about economics. You don't- and it is an insult to those of us so educated that you prattle on in your ignorance, refusing to be educated on some of the simplest facts, like chained dollars.
I wonder if you attempt to convince your doctor that you know more medicine than he or she because you read a book or saw a movie. Or your dentist that you know more about dentistry than he or she, because you read a book by a dentist, or have visited Internet sites, and are, therefore, a self educated expert?
Stick to plumbing.
Mixed,
There you go twisting and deflecting again...
I could care less what anyone else here called you...did I call you that?
No, I didn't...
All I did was point out that you were, once again, backpedalling.
I think my post was extremely civil (I even put the little winkie face in there) and I did my best to hold up "my end of the bargain", something you obviously couldn't do by calling me a hypocrite...
See, I can't control anyone else's civility but my own. Just like you can't.
But I will take sides. Just like you do.
"...did I call you that?"
Really, Mick?
"the friend of my enemy is my enemy"
lol
At least I now know what you mean when you say "civil", Mickey.
We're not on the same page at all.
You come from the Feisty Redhead's school of civility...or, Houston's.
Thanks for the clarification...
Hypocrite.
Just remember I didn't ask YOU for "a pact to keep the debate civil"...nor did I violate the terms you proposed.
You did, mouse.
So...
We'll do this your way.
Mixed,
["the friend of my enemy is my enemy"]
Really? Show me where in my post above where I, personnaly, accused you of "brainless teabaggery", or called you a "simpleton".
[Just remember I didn't ask YOU for "a pact to keep the debate civil"...nor did I violate the terms you proposed. You did, mouse.]
Show everyone where I "violated the terms I proposed".
You can't. Because it didn't happen, correct?
I did, however, say you were backpedalling like a circus clown, which you know damn well isn't calling you names. That's why you didn't bring that up, correct?
Call me all the names you want, it won't change my stance:
If that makes me "your enemy", well, you have much bigger problems than someone calling you "names" on the internet. You are simply letting your ideology get in the way of civil debate.
If that bothers you, all I can say is I thought you were not that thin-skinned.
The kind of "civil debate" your friends Feisty and Houston engage in, Mick?
I'm good with that...as you obviously are.
"Circus clown" is fine too, mouse.
Just as long as we understand each other.
I think I understand you perfectly.
Mixed...
...twist...deflect...distract...squirm...good job! Right on que, too.
I did notice that you didn't address ANY of my questions...or comprehend any of my post...and here I thought you were better than that...
...apparently not...
[I think I understand you perfectly.]
...apparently not...
Well, back to work for me. Have a good night.
Cue, mouse.
It's "right on cue".
So, when you can't debate on merit, you point out a...oh, never mind...you won't get the irony anyway.
Don't care to address ANY of the questions presented to you, Mixed? None? Surely you could muster up the courage to admit that you are wrong or do you give up that easily?
Well, you didn't disappoint, did you Mixed...
...apparently not...
"Populist Pitch?"
No. It's called class, race warfare and hate mongering.
NOT how you heal the country and get us out of the Obamadepression
Class warfare is when people begin sharpening guillotines and committing acts of violence. Class warfare this ain't. Hate mongering is when people incite violence against a particular group. I didn't see anything about hurting anybody. Wealthy black people stand to lose as much as wealthy white people. Race warfare this ain't. Hyperbole is when you exaggerate to achieve an effect. Hyperbole is exactly what you posted.
Pragmatic, you probably need to sharpen your definition...class warfare is setting one set of Americans against another in an attempt to create civil unrest.
Class war or class warfare refers to a class conflict, or tensions between members of different social classes. Obama's attempt is a diversion, he has no solution except complete reversal of his failed Keynesian economics that have caused the economy to worsen since he has taken office and has produced a greater deficit. His plan as outlined is not a jobs plan, it is not even an economic plan. No economists would recommend such foolishness in the face of a double dip recession. Is the quarter of a billion he expects to get from Medicare in addition to the nearly half billion he is cutting from Medicare as a result of Obamacare?
23 democrat senators who are up for re-election are hoping the republican house defeats this measure quickly before they are asked about it. If they support this nonsense they are doomed. If they don't support it, Obama is doomed. Nice huh.
Obama talked this morning on "IT'S NOT CLASS WARFARE, IT'S MATH". Give us a break obama, if it was math why not propose eliminating all of your (bush) tax cuts in 2013. Why go for the chump change from the wealthy of only $800 billion over 10 years when you could go big, REALLY BIG, by eliminating the cuts across the board to gain over $3 trillion in revenue over 10 years. After all, many FR posters don't believe that tax cuts create jobs, just start promoting elimination of these cuts across the board, NOW!
Obama, put boehner to the ultimate test. Does boehner really want no tax increases for the wealthy or will he stand his ground of NO TAX INCREASES to the poor and middle class as well?
Yeh, you must really be concerned about losing votes next year if you told us what you really want.
Why is the presumption that Republicans won't go along with a Democratic proposal? Flip it around: Why should Democrats go along with Republican proposals. You're not branding GOP proposals as "dead in the water." As a Democrat, I think all GOP proposals are dead in the water, but it's my party that is compelled to bargain. Stick it to the GOP for once: Why can't they give on some of this if Democrats are inherently expected to give on their end? Call a spade a spade for once!
Because they hated this president from the get go......and this would have happened with Hillary too......GOP only wants white male in the Oval.
racist
Kathryn, I disagree, It wouldn't have happened to Hillary, she has brains.
BS,...the Clinton's couldn't prevent any of the drummed up drama that netted an 8 year investigation about everything from where and whom Billy dinked to whether or not Hilary had Foster murdered. The problem isn't the person. It's the tactic of destruction that the Rightwingers are incapable of standing down from.
They would very literally rather see this country in SHREDS than allow a Democrat to govern.
And the evidence is right out here for all to see,...unless they refuse to...
What I want to know is how a man like THIS can get EVERY GOPTP to sign anything. The man is as corrupt as the day is long AND still you back him....I don't get it.
Wednesday, July 13, 2011
Feds want to cut 23-year prison sentence of Grover Norquist's pal, Hamas-linked one-time leading U.S. "moderate" Muslim
Hamas-tied Islamic supremacist Abdurahman Alamoudi is Grover Norquist's good buddy and partner. He is serving 23 years. Now federal prosecutors are asking a judge to cut his prison term. Who is behind that?
Above checks are monies Alamoudi gave to Grover Norquist. (checks would not forward, google site to see)
Back in 2009, Insight magazine wrote:
Norquist was Alamoudi’s most influential Washington facilitator, authorities believe, noting that Norquist reminds friend and foe alike that he is close to the president’s powerful political strategist, Karl Rove.
Norquist, who previously has denied any suggestion that his work facilitated any wrongdoing, not only introduced Alamoudi to Washington GOP power circles but also Sammy Al Arian, whom prosecutors arrested earlier this year for alleged terrorist activities.
Federal law-enforcement sources say they are focusing on some of Norquist’s associates and financial ties to terrorist groups.
Alamoudi and other Muslim leaders met with Bush in Austin in July [2000], offering to support his bid for the White House in exchange for Bush’s commitment to repeal certain antiterrorist laws.
A photo of the Austin event shows Bush with Alamoudi standing over his left shoulder, flanked by the former head of the Pakistani Communist Party, several open supporters of the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist groups and other individuals Insight is trying to identify.
Canceled checks obtained by Insight show Alamoudi provided seed money to start a GOP-oriented Muslim group called the Islamic Institute, which Norquist originally chaired and now is led by former Alamoudi aide and former AMC staffer Khaled Saffuri.
But the one-time high-flyer last week signed a plea agreement with the U.S. government admitting his multiple crimes in return for a reduced sentence.
His confession makes for startling reading.
Alamoudi acknowledges having obtained money from the Libyan government and other foreign sources, “unlawfully, knowingly, and willfully falsified, concealed and covered up by a trick, scheme and device.”
He transmitted these funds to the United States, “outside of the knowledge of the United States government and without attracting the attention of law enforcement and regulatory authorities.”
In doing so, he engaged in illegal financial transactions and filed false tax returns.
He lied about his overseas travels, his interest in a Swiss bank account, his affiliation with a Specially Designated Terrorist (the Hamas leader, Mousa Abu Marzook), and his membership in terrorist-related organizations. [...]
Then there is the fact that Alamoudi’s Palm Pilot, seized at the time of his arrest, contained contact information for seven men designated as global terrorists by U.S. authorities.
Also, law enforcement found an unsigned Arabic-language document in Alamoudi’s office with ideas for Hamas to undertake “operations against the Israelis to delay the peace process.”
What's that old saying...you're known by the company you keep.
sorry I seem to be posting a lot but this one is somewhat funny if only for the title.
September 12, 2011, - 4:05 pm
EXCLUSIVE – Whorin’ Lauren: Bush Niece Dated Qaeda/HAMAS Son; Feds Feared it Co-Opted Prosecution
By Debbie Schlussel
You probably heard about last week’s wedding, in which model Lauren Bush–niece of George W. Bush and granddaughter of George H.W. Bush–married David Lauren, son and heir apparent of designer Ralph Lauren. She is the daughter of failed Silverado Savings and Loan swindler Neil Bush, who took millions of dollars from the Saudis and the United Arab Emirates for “speeches” and “appearances” and admitted under oath (during a deposition in his divorce) that he accepted and had sex with prostitutes the Emirati royalty procured for him. His wedding to wife #2 took place at the home of a wealthy Texas Arab and included lavish gifts from several with ties to Islamic terrorists in Syria and Lebanon (including Hezbollah). Lauren Bush-Lauren heads FEED, a non-profit that wastes hundreds of thousands of dollars on dumb American media campaigns about nutrition and sends the rest to the anti-Israel, anti-American United Nations and its UNICEF. (Her snot-nosed brother, Pierce Bush, whined that Americans are “anti-Arab” when the Dubai Ports deal to control our major ports was nixed.)
Whorin’ Lauren: Her Deliberate Choice of Jihadist “Fashion” Accessories Matches Her HAMAS/Al-Qaeda Dating History (picture didn't print)
But what you probably didn’t know is that, during the Bush Administration, Lauren Bush “dated” (euphemism) a Palestinian Muslim, whose family was under investigation for running money-laundering schemes that funded HAMAS and the forerunner to Al-Qaeda, Maktab Al-Khidamat (MAK), which was founded by Osama Bin Laden (I’ve written a good deal about MAK previously). Federal authorities knew that the family, which had branches in Ohio, Florida, and Texas, was funding HAMAS and MAK/Al-Qaeda, but were never allowed to do much about it, even though the family in question moved around a lot of money between July and November of 2001, when certain suspect accounts were abruptly closed not long after the September 11th attacks.
The relationship with Lauren Bush was quite serious and went on for some time. The feds feared that the Ivy League student, the son of one of the main operatives under investigation, deliberately set out to date Ms. Bush to keep the Bush Administration from prosecuting his family. The relationship was public and reported upon by prominent gossip pages online and in newspapers. And I know the name of the person in question.
Whether or not the dating relationship was a deliberate strategy to co-opt any federal interference with the money-laundering/terrorism financing operation as federal authorities feared (and I believe they were correct in their suspicions), it appears to have worked. The Muslim family was never prosecuted and lives in wealth and comfort here in America, unscathed, even though the evidence shows that they funded two major Islamic terrorist groups, including the one that murdered 3,000 Americans ten years ago today. Had they been prosecuted, it would have been a huge embarrassment for President Bush and his family. But it would have been justice for the victims of the 9/11 Islamic terrorist attacks and their families, since this family helped finance Al-Qaeda (and HAMAS) right before the attacks. Justice was never served, and we’ll never know why. Agents and prosecutors, who spent tremendous time and effort on the case, were never told why the Bush Justice Department put the kabosh on the investigation and protected this family.
Neil Bush with Datamatrix of Dubai’s CEO Ali Al-Kamali (picture didn't print)
It reads like the fanciful machinations of a thriller spy novel. But sometimes–as in this case–truth is stranger (and more cold and calculating) than fiction. Sleeping with the enemy is sometimes very effective (for the enemy).
Someone’s laughing all the way to the bank (the “West Bank”?) . . . and the Islamic bomb factory. Somebody else is laughing all the way to the top of Ralph Lauren, Inc.
When It Comes to Islamo-pandering, the “Refined” Bush Family Leaves Even Billy Carter in the Dust. . .
Just when I thought he couldn't be more brain damaged . . . I like the way he continues to cut his own throat. Odumdum is about as popular as that invasion of snails now. Before he leaves the house, he would do well to remember to take some semblance of brains with him.
Too bad the republicans didn't use a brain when they were driving our country into debt. The republicans were trying to destroy our country with debt on purpose by giving tax cuts in war time or they were too stupid to realize what they were doing.
Either way the republicans have proved they are incompetent.
You have so much hate for President Obama that you are not paying attention to the incompetence of your own party.
Norquist and his republican pledges have stated there goal of destroying America and their stated plan is to do that by never raising taxes.
Is there any brains left in the republican party or just the blind allegiance to protecting the rich above country?
And yet the democrats went down the same path. Go figure, politicians having a fixation on spending with the populace urging them all on with votes.
At least it looks like the tea party started waking up the republicans in 2010 to this waste. Now if only obama and company would wake up as well, we might actually get somewhere. Pay the price now, or pay it soon.
I believe the plan was to have a New World Order and that plan was implemented years and years ago. So far to date each president has brought us a step closer including Clinton. The plan is to starve us into submission and make us a 3rd world country where the wealthy rule. After they get us into submission they will start to turn on each other and then we'll start hearing about "suicides". Only the very wealthy and strong will survive.
More than EVER before we need to get out and vote Obama for 4 more years and another Democrat after his terms are up. We also need to start raising some hell about war crimes and criminals. All that blood money that made it into some of our officials coffers is absolutely unspeakable.
And this is the last one for today...I promise.
The last DC9 to get captured (and mysteriously released) in Mexico after making an emergency landing was in 2005 and was full of cocaine, had a Department of Homeland Security paint job, and the ownership was traced back to Jeb Bush, although the ownership documents were obscured by the fact that it was up for sale, as are all planes that are used for smuggling
From what I understand Buffet takes very little "salary," which is taxed as ordinary income, at full boat. All his other monies are from capital gains, taxed a 15%. So how is HE paying his fair share? Just asking...
He's not, which is why if his taxes go up, it won't effect him one bit.
Buffet's already made his money and the guy has one foot in the grave.
He doesn't care if other people can't get rich or make more money, he's already rich.
It's no different than if Walmart came out tomorrow and said, "we don't believe companies should be able to grow as big a we did have".
What does Walmart care if they passed a law like that, they're already the world's largest retailer.
It's easy to say other people should pay more in taxes when it won't effect you.
Don't forget, Buffet has pledged to give most of it away, too. He realizes you can't take it with you and you really only need so much,...
I appreciate his efforts at lobbying for the middle class since we really can't compete financially with the monied interests that would keep the boot on our necks indefinitely.
Warren Buffet, the man who cares about America.
He pledged to give half of it away, after he dies. What is he going to do with it then anyways?
RealityCheck
Who would you like to invest to create job?
Investment income is taxed at a lower rate to stimulate investment. If taxes are going to raised on investment income, then the risk becomes less appealing. Risk/reward; as American as apple pie.
Some might call it the "carrot". Of course, you can put a carrot in front of donkey, and it doesn't know to lean forward.
MJ-CT - FR libs don't see it that way. To them tax cuts don't create jobs either and therefore there doesn't need to be any reason to realize wealth by being an innovator. Then again, if the government gives them OPM they will embrace those $$$.
Question: Why is it "class warfare" for the president to suggest a tax increase on the wealthy, but it's NOT class warfare for the Republicans to raise taxes on the middle class when the payroll tax cuts expire?
Because the rich white males in the GOP say so.....thats why silly.
because a small group is targeted by obama and obama uses the phrase "fair share" in only targeting this small group.
The payroll tax cuts apply to far more people across the board to give them a little more pocket money in an effort to stimulate demand.
Regardless, when did the republicans say no to extending the payroll tax cuts?
Definition of Populist:
Why the hell do the press and Republicans cringe when they utter the term populist like they have just eaten a rat turd?
Because they know the rich are only 2% of our population. Republicans need a lot of suckers to vote for the rich before themselves and the last thing they want is a populist movement that the people put themselves first.
It is class warfare alright and the republicans do not want the poor fighting back.
There is an article on "Who Rules America" written by a financial manager who says many of the top 1% really aren't that wealthy. The real wealth is concentrated in a much smaller group. The article is titled "An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%" if you'd care to look for it. It's a very interesting article.
ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh, Dave numbers:
I've said that for years. It's all fun and games to squash the middle class back to servitude; but what's the grand plan when the fractionals only have each other to eat and blame for the demise?
They simply do not get it. And yet they get people like Joe the Fake Plumber to carry their water because SOMEDAY, just maybe, he'll be welcomed into their ranks. Poor unsuspecting saps. Look at Scott Walker FALLING OVER HIMSELF to take that phony Koch brother's call. Who is a puppet for the man? Why, golly, it appears to be the Repubbies. Man are THEY in for a shock!
“In laying out his proposal, aides said, Mr. Obama will expressly promise to veto any legislation that seeks to cut the deficit through spending cuts alone and does not include revenue increases in the form of tax increases on the wealthy.”
Promise?
At first glance, Obama's proposals for deficit reduction including cuts and increased revenues seem to be a good start. We are watching Mr. President.
greeting yellowdog! Listened to his speech this morning and caught the part when he chastised the right for sticking with "no tax increases" as being the same as saying to obama "it is my way or the highway". Rather foolish on obamas part to then threaten veto action.
Obamas expression on the responce to republicans on his tax proposal as..."it is not class warfare, it is math" also rang false. After all, if obama really thinks it is about math, he would state that all of his (bush) tax cuts would expire after 2012. He is going after chump change ($800 billion/10 years) by raising only the tax on the 2%ers when he could get well over $3 trillion by letting all of the temporary cuts expire. Sure it will cost him votes, but doesn't he promote what is good for the people?
I veiw his current program in line with only going after votes rather than any long term economic solution. If I remember correctly you said you were involved in architecture, but I don't recall you saying residential, commercial or industrial. If so, you must realize that infrasture jobs and commercial construction is not something that one merely turns a switch and the jobs are there. Lead times can be long. Yes the job potential is there, but not within the context of fast creation or numbers. Schools offer the best numbers because of the variety of trades involved.
Remember the 2009 stimulas that bumped up GDP quite well over 3 quarters with everyone saying that it was working? Obama is hoping to do the same in 2012, but with less expenditure.
I still maintain that until the American consumer de-leverages more of their debt, forgets their fear of their economic future and starts spending more on discretionary products our growth will remain slow and low. It won't matter what fiscal policy is promoted or by whom, it will utimately be the consumer that leads us into a solid recovery. the caveat will of course be europe.
I would rather see obama project more positive notes on our future than his negative partisanship, after all he is POTUS.
This plan is self-defeating. If there is no middle ground citizens are forced to choose a side and will vote more hard line conservatives into Congress. Democrats who have been fighting the tax and spend stereotype and doing so much good should be furious. Another sad day for the USA.
Tax and spend bad, borrow and spent good. The republican plan of borrowing and spending is what got us in the debt.
Why should we borrow more and increase the debt more when we have ultra rich who have not even paid their fair share for over 10 years now.
Why should I vote for a conservative? Because those mean democrats want to raise taxes on the richest?
The sad day is when a party would cheer the death of another human for whatever reason.
What don't you understand about "middle ground"?
You are parroting two extremes.
Its about time Obama took off the gloves. I'm surprised & disappointed that it took him THIS long to figure out that Republicans have only ONE interest in mind ... "making him a one-term president"... even at the expense of millions and millions of US citizens. When the Repub candidates ALL stood on the stage and said they would not accept even a 10:1 spending cuts to revenue increase agreement with Obama, that finally convinced most voters that these people have NO interest except in destroying Obama; even at the expense of millions of lives.
Obama's simply taking his case to the ones that are suffering. Everyone will need to pitch in and make concessions to get the US economy out of this rut .... the Rich, Poor, Military, Corporations ... everyone! Cutting taxes for the wealthy AGAIN is NOT going to fly with common taxpayers ... they have had enough. Republicans have signed over their souls to Grover Norquist, the wealthy, and the corporations who are pushing to control government. Republicans have basically told the American citizens that they work for those people, not the citizens of the USA ... so be it ... in 2012 the voices of the voters will be heard.
Unfortunately, it is just this kind of rhetoric that WILL make him a one-term president. It gives the other side more ammunition. (Very much like the military action against Iraq, something you should understand.) There are better ways to get things done. He is only looking to escalate the conflagration. He is a bully, not a leader. Nothing will be accomplished.
You say everone should make consessions..terrific..how about the 50% who contribute nothing pay something? We could start there instead of taxing the 10% who pay most of the taxes in the country
Bill,
I gave up cable TV, cell phones, eating out, and garbage pick up to help make ends meet. I took an extra job and I'm driving my piece of you know what car longer than I'd anticipated. I'm certainly not suffering, but I am not living as I was 5 years ago. What concessions have the 10% made during this recession? Have you made any?
Pragmatic..Well glad you asked. I serve on 2 borads for children with Autism (non paid) I coach for free.. Last yr I donated 30k to various charities and raised more than $200k for them. I work 55-60hrs per week..spend way too much time driving instead of being home with my family. I drink the same lousy water..drive in the same lousy roads and breath the same lousy air that folk who pay no taxes to. Oh..BTYW I paid over $175k in fed and state taxes..Yea..i think I've done my "fair share"
Bill,
I'm glad you give so much and help those with autism. I would love to give more, but I don't have very much to spare at the moment. There is no doubt you work hard. That you pay that much in taxes is amazing to me. I pay about a tenth of what you do between the feds, state, and town, but I likely make much less than you. I work about 80 hours per week between the two jobs. I drive way too much as well. It doesn't leave me much time with my wife and our new baby, but we get by. Thanks for sharing your experience with me and the rest of the readers.
The problem is that now bill put his life out there. Now the Liberals on this page will tear poor bill up! Im very similar but somewhere in the middle of you tow in income. But Im a emergency foster parent in down town Detroit as well as a bantam level youth hockey coach. I also donate between $200 and $300 per month to the general fund of our country. When I first mentioned this I was cut to ribbons by the gimme gimme gang on this site. bill get ready.
Pragmatic..You are welcome and believe me I get it. My beef is not with Dems..per se..My beef is that no matter who is in charge they waste money on cronism..silly payoffs and outright bad business ..To say nothing of outright theivery. My position is give them less and force them to make it work. When they do that I'll be happy to send more but not until they treat my and your money like it was thier kids money..
Jolly I'll stand by my record..I'm not afraid
Bill, I am glad you are doing so well. I am also glad you got to claim that $30,000 against your taxes.
Our problems are caused by the wars and tax cuts at the same time, the two created a massive debt. Rich republicans voted to give the tax cuts against all fiscal wisdom.
The poor did not cause the debt, but they are the ones to suffer and only ones to sacrifice so far.
I am also on a board of directors of a non-profit coffee house that feeds the homeless and hungry 3 days a week. Unfortunately that is all we can afford.
I also wish our country was healthy enough we didn't need to raise your taxes. You have done very well and have had 10 years of extra tax cuts that drove up our country's debt and now we need you to give more to our country.
Not want, need. Is that really the republican plan, to turn their backs on America in her time of need?
Jolly and bill, didn't take long for americans first to chastise you for not giving more.
Financially I won't even try to claim I am in the same income level as you both, but I will agree that until the government starts to show more fiscal responsibility I will only contribute to the government what my 1040's say I should. Charitable giving is best left to the individual to decide.
What amazes me the most is that many here think that in tough times the government needs to keep on spending like times were good.
What an incredible mental midget. Stop watching Matthews, Maddow and Olberman and try to form your own opinions. You just spouting all of the Socialist, er, I mean Democrat talking points and sounding like Obama (i.e. an empty suit behind a teleprompter).
Conservative fascists retreading the same ol', same ol:Â Socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else.
The Obama pitch? That's what we're calling it? Sorry, but I saw him throw that ball in his "Mom Jeans." A pitcher he ain't.
The great orator ain't so great. So far, he's accomplished nothing with his speeches. He doesn't want to work, he wants to campaign. The amerikan people may love it, but the American people are tired of empty rhetoric.
Conservative fascists HATE the middle class.
If the gov't robs Peter to pay Paul, Paul will vote for it.
How about this..? How about our "leaders" (he says with a laugh) try wisely spending what we now give them? When they accomplish that I'll be glad to send more however I doubt more would be needed. DO NOT send any more money to these fools on capital hill..They will just give it to more the Solyndras and ask for more at a later date. BO is a criminal IMO..
Conservatism = banana republik
you have that wrong....it's liberalism = banana republic....apparently you can't read or study history or you would know that from around the world.....
Ohiofan, your statement is absolutely false, I believe you are the one that needs some more "smarts".
Real problem is not that Republicans are trashing Obama's proposal before he annouces - it is the fact that Obama and his gang picked divisive issues that they know for sure Republicans will not go for.
If Obama and his party was serious about tax increases, pulling troops out of Afaghanistan and Iraq, budget cuts, they would have atleast started the process(not just speeches) 2.8 years ago.
Yeah , kind of like the Republicans should have started wanting to so something about the economy 10 years ago and if they had , we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If you challenge them they will counter with a we just couldn't because the liberals all stopped us. No memory about their own failings to act when they could have made a difference. Personally I could pick someone else for President , it could even be someone from a different party then the democratic party but it won't be from the Rebublican party if all they have to offer is what I see now. No thanks .
Why should the discussion be limited only to things the Republicans already want to do?
Trying to get mr grover, the gop, & their soviet sponsors to compromise what is best for this country is impossible. At least obama isn't a bought off puppet like the gop and he is working directly for his country and people. Mr grover is attacking bohmer for some reason.
Marshall seriously President Obama is owned lock, stock and barrel by the unions. Every one of his proposals always includes goodies for unions. If you can't realize that, there is nothing going to help. Just for reference from my point of view, both parties are corrupt.
The hate speech of Feisty and Bev has returned. The got a reprieve from MSNBC because they are special.
They are reeling because their anointed one is toast next year.
As Forrest Gump says "stupid is what stupid does."
"Scandal after scandal keeps piling on this administration. But the Hilly types on here like Feisty, Navy, Beverly, Nash, et. al. will continue to eat more pieces of the PIE being fed to them from this administration like Stepford Wives."
They are all MSNBC shills...NOBODY can be that stupid!...: )
ATFMAN ... if it bothers you, the door to FOX News is to the right ... feel very free to go through it. I promise, you won't be missed! Maybe you can get your ego stroked and tell your lies to your friends there. Repubican Presidents are the ones that mostly created the Nat'l Debt ... over $10.8 trillion by Reagan & both Bushes ... raising the debt ceiling 28 times ... giving tax cuts for the wealthiest & tax increases to the poorest ... they primarily created the situation this government is in ... Trickle Down has never worked fairly ... never will work fairly.
Wanna bet.
MSNBC viewers take the term "stupid" to a whole new level.
and FOX News viewers take "retarded" to a whole new level ...
" ... if it bothers you, the door to FOX News is to the right ... feel very free to go through it. I promise, you won't be missed! Maybe you can get your ego stroked and tell your lies to your friends there. "
The only thing that bothers me Mac is there are people like you out there voting...and I've got something you can stroke!...:p
Jesus Mac.
I was only talking about your lack of intelligence.
Where do you come off making fun of mentally retarded people? Hateful bigot.
They can't help the fact that they were born mentally retarded, what's your excuse?
Thank god we are voting.
We could have McCain/Palin right now in charge. We would be in war in Iran and boots on the ground in Libya with Americans dying. The debt would be exploding as the republicans would give more tax cuts to the richest. Being they can't blame bush they would still be blaming Clinton.
The unions would be dead, social security would be on the ropes and medicare gone. But the rich would be fine and that is all that matters to the republicans.
I just can't wait for the republicans to take over and finish the job bush started of destroying America.