Is "?" even running?

I always liked that guy "?"

He just never has answers or solutions, only questions.

He just never has answers or solutions, only questions.

Not fair talking about Spanky when he's not around! ;oP

Typical Fiesty with her religious bigotry. Are you making fun of christians who believe in the bible? What about muslim Koran bangers? What about gay activists? What is your funny reprehensible derogatory name for them? Do you call passionate woman's rights people feminazis? All of these people where their beliefs on their sleeves but explain to me why you find Christians so bad? Your religious bigotry is truly reprehensible and how can you really expect people to leave Rev Wright out of it when you basically ask for it with your disgusting comments. If you dont like their beliefs then dont vote for them but to be so nasty with your bigotry is so uncalled for especially for the person that this blog allows to set the stage by going first.

With unemployment in its current state, why is the Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act not being adhered to?

If Mitt Romney wins the Republican nomination, will the moderators of a NBC News sponsered debate spend twenty minutes asking Romney if he believes Jesus is the Son of God, or merely a prophet, as the Book of Mormon proclaims, the way ABC News spent twenty minutes in 2008 grilling Barack Obama on Rev. Wright and whether or not Obama loved his country?

Listening to Boehner babble on, it brings to mind that Otis the Drunk on the Andy Griffith show sounded more cohernant than this jackwagon...

10 minutes into it & still not one idea out of Otis on job creation, other then the failed policies that got us here in the first place!

How is that fact check after fact check Republican still get away lies?

For instance, John Bone-air is standing there lying

He keeps saying what Americans want. That's just not the case in lieu of the latest polls.

CNN Poll: More Americans trust Obama on economy over Republicans in Congress

The survey released on Wednesday shows that although a lot of Americans are still unsure what’s in the president’s new jobs bill, they like most of the major proposals offered in the plan that was sent to Congress Monday.

By a 43-35 percent margin, a plurality of Americans approve of the economic program Obama outlined in his speech to Congress last week,

Americans Favor Obama Jobs Plan by 45% to 32%

Now couple that with most Americans trusting President Obama on the economy, plus their disgust with Congress and the Tea Party; it looks more like the vine is withering for the GOP. And it will continue to as long as the GOP/Tea Party LIES and pushes for the fat cats, no jobs, Ponzi Schemes, no infrastructure rebuilding, bridges closing, and no aid to disaster victims; I would think.

The Sherman Minton Bridge, one of three major bridges spanning the Ohio River between Louisville, Kentucky and southern Indiana, was closed Friday after cracks were found in its structure.

Sorry to be snarky about the religious question. I actually don't care if Romney believes Jesus was divine or merely a good teacher. But that ABC debate! Man! That still rankles! I fired George and Charlie after that, haven't watched that news network since.

Given the importance of putting people back to work, would it be advisable for Democrats to agree to modify Davis-Bacon to more closely approximate "prevailing wages"? Too frequently the prevailing wage hardly reflects the local markets.

Along that same line of thinking, any number of government reimbursements are based on "local costs". Some times those are determined by nothing more than a few phone calls. The waste in these programs is staggering, and indeed may contribute to inflation. For instance - and this is purely hypothetical - with respect to some HUD programs, rent for a one-bedroom apartment may range anywhere from $500 to $850 monthly. If the feds agree that $850 is the going rate, not only do they reimburse more than necessary, they actually allow to landlord who charges $500 to raise his rent to say $600 knowing that his price is all that much more desirable.

In short, why aren't Democrats negotiating away fraud, waste, and abuse savings and trading them for stimulative spending? I can sure as hell show them how.

FRH

How much will religion play in the general election? Whether one of the fanatical bible bangers or Romney (the moron)

For someone who continues to say that religion and politics don't mix you sure do bring it up a lot. Also spell check lately?

To the media in general -- Please start reporting on special elections far enough in advance that there can be a national discussion about the candidates. It's bad enough that the DNC did not get involved until the last minute, but the only way to expose idiots is to inform voters.

We thought congress was a circus and the GOP/TP presidential candidates were carnival barkers. Now we have the Jerry Springer show--just great.

David your mixing apples and oranges prevailing wage has nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned, it is literally calculated by auditing payroll records of businessmen in the area, and specifically for different occupations. It has nothing to do with reimbursements of any kind, it is simply so that all contractors that would bid on a federal project or contract know to bid their projected labor costs. They can look up the prevailing wage for that occupation in that area. It prevents the government from overpaying in an area, or price dumbing in an area (price dumping on America is China's job not the US governments). It is exactly what it sounds like the prevailing wage that is paid in an area for a specific occupation it has nothing to do with anything else. It is re-calibrated every 3 years (I might be off on that, but not much), but it is re-calibrated often enough that it certainly does reflect the effects of things like RTW. The declining wages of the unionized industries causes everybody in that industry to have a lower prevailing wage, the downward pressure on wages then starts to spread to the rest of the community and they take pay cuts, further reducing the prevailing wage at the next recalibration. How do you think you get to the point where the median income in Texas is 11.20 an hour when I made that much per hour as a grocery clerk 30 years ago. When you lower wages for any segment of an industry the whole industry eventually takes a pay cut. Everybody took a pay cut in Texas not just the union shops, and if a union member gets a raise then that lifts the prevailing wage for the non union shop as well.

Sorry but let me add: If you look at the states that have had RTW for 25-30 years you will find that in those states people make about ten dollars an hour less than the average of the non RTW states in every occupation, across the board even in occupations that were never unionized, even white collar jobs. Many of those people have a lower prevailing wage now than they had in 1980. I wonder what a CEO would say if you told him he would make less now than he did 30 years ago, to bad their salary is not counted in a prevailing wage audit, because the truth is lots of people in places like Texas and Louisiana effectively have not had a raise in 30 years. I don't know people in Texas make out on 12 bucks an hour, but people in NY and LA and sure can't, so the government should absolutely pay the prevailing wage for the area where the project is to be built, that protects the businesmen and their employees from would be raiders from low wage states bidding on their projects with an unfair advantage. Prevailing wage laws will give any contractor union or non union or even an out of state contractor a level playing field from which to bid the labor costs on any federal project regardless of where it is located.

Right now the prevailing wage for a bricklayer in Iraq is $72.00 dollars an hour and that is tax free! Not too shabby when compared to the prevailing wage for that work in Texas. Lets hope they don't screw themselves in Iraq by voting for RTW.

Can't argue with you Forrest. It's been a long time since I got hold of figures for a prevailing wage job. However, I can tell you, the figures I saw weren't even close to what someone working out of a hall would earn.

I know what you mean about RTW states. They should really be called "States where employers hold all the cards and can screw employees seven ways to Sunday". They could also be called, "Workers have no rights at all" states.

That said, I do think that Davis-Bacon could use some work. The Repubs tried again recently to have it repealed and were beaten back. Perhaps taking the prevailing wage and discounting it 5% might be a bone that would make them happy. We have to get incomes up again. Also, I know from very recent personal experience the way local costs are calculated for H.U.D. is an absolute disgrace.

We have some serious cutting to do Forrest, and I fear that the really important programs are going to take a hit because we didn't work hard enough at cutting waste.

By the way, you'll never have to work to convince me of the value of unions. My Grampa took care of that long ago.

No the prevailing wages for an occupation are never quite as high as the union wage package because all the non union workers in the industry are included in the audits and they generally make less, and it is based on wages, and the union workers usually get some benefits as well. I agree we need to cut a lot, but wages for any workers is not the thing to cut, not even now, as a matter of fact I think now would be the worst time when business desperately needs people with a little disposable income to spend.

To get a prevailing wage federal construction contract the contractor has to be the lowest reasonable bidder, it does not matter if he is union or non union he has to bid his projected labor cost at the prevailing wage. This obviously gives the edge to the non union contractor because all he has to pay his employees is the prevailing wage, he does not have to pay any benefits if he can hire people willing to work without them. The union contractor has to be the lowest reasonable bidder and yet he pays the prevailing wage or more if the union contract calls for it and he has to pay the benefits the union contract calls for. So don't worry if you thought the union shop will cost more, it does not, he still has to bid lower than the non union contractor to get the job. The extra money that the union contractor pays comes out of his pocket not the customers pocket. The job goes to the lowest reasonable bidder. This is why I tell people how hard the union guys really work, these guys have super training and are motivated, they have to be, the union contractor is banking on the fact that they will be more efficient than the non union crew or that money comes right out of his profit margin. The union contractor is banking on his crew getting more done faster, because he pays them more per hour but he still has to get the job done under his bid price to make a profit. It does not cost more to use the union construction contractor. Prevailing wage laws prevent a contractor in say Texas from bringing a crew to LA and putting the contractors there out of business, or forcing them to pay less to their employees to stay in business. Lets say your are a mason in LA and you make 45 bucks an hour, that is the prevailing wage for masonry work in LA, now a masonry contractor from Texas brings a crew and starts bidding masonry work at 15 bucks an hour, now you have to work for about 15 bucks an hour or the contractor from Texas is going to put your boss out of business. Prevailing wage laws protect the businessmen and their employees from being raided by anybody who is willing to work the cheapest. Some people who don't understand prevailing wages laws think it would be good to get rid of them. It would not, you don't want that, your boss don't want that, your landlord don't want that, the guy who owns the local pizza parlor don't want that, not if they understand prevailing wage laws. Getting rid of prevailing wage laws would degrade your community by preventing the employers in your community from providing jobs for the people who live in that community with pay that is commensurate with the cost of living in that community. You can't live in NY or LA on Texas wages, that is not hard to understand. If you ever get rid of the prevailing wage laws you would see some real dog eat dog, race to the bottom mayhem, way worse than you are already starting to see with governors giving away the store (taxpayers money) to attract business, until the next governor sweetens the pot a little more by giving more free taxpayers money away. If on top of that you got rid of prevailing wage laws, no matter where you live you might have to work for $11.20 an hour, but only until some body is willing to work for a little less.

"Also, I know from very recent personal experience the way local costs are calculated for H.U.D. is an absolute disgrace.

We have some serious cutting to do Forrest, and I fear that the really important programs are going to take a hit because we didn't work hard enough at cutting waste."

David - I think you found the pin in the cushion.

Ha, Torpedo, sounds like a question for Feisty.

LOL

Touche' Domenico! ;o)

PS: Torpedo - send Richard (lot's a number) $19.95 to the Dew Drop Inn site and he'll send you the secrect!

Overnight shipping is available for an additional charge of course! ;o)

Because we like her and respect her wit ! Her writings reach us on a emotional level !

True... they invoke ANGER stemming from her lack of respect for her fellow man!

Because we like her and respect her wit

Thank you & *hugs*

How about some popcorn?

Her wit? Nasty, condescending bigotry is what appeals to progressives? As for her writings maybe I miss them but has she actually written anything that puts forth her own critically thought out positions or is she always just parroting others? Please link to something in which she in her own words has given us any insight that she can actually think for herself.

Feisty,

If Torpedo sends money in the next 5 minutes, will he get a 2 for, and a ratchet set?

will he get a 2 for, and a ratchet set?

Not only that, we'll throw in a set of steak knives & a snuggie! lol

And, a bass-o-matic.

And, a bass-o-matic.

Bless your generous heart! ;o)

LMAO!

You folks should consider stepping outside for a minute or two and interacting with REAL humans....

The Dungeon & Dragon crowd almost made me throw up a lil in my mouth...lol

Kirk-2957282

Her wit? Nasty, condescending bigotry is what appeals to progressives?

I think you should read your condescending bigotry. See it goes both ways.

Say it isn't so: Because we like her and respect her wit !

The half, no, or dim wit?

Siis: Her writings reach us on a emotional level

Makes you cry, right?

WOW!

I just watched a video (linked on MSN homepage) of Michael Moore advocting that OBL should have been afforded a trial instead of death by our SEALs.

I have never been PROUDER to be a Conservative and an American after watching because people like Michael Moore will always vote for a liberal. Knowing I will never be like him makes my chest stick out just a bit more.

God Bless the United States of America!

mmnord1969

I was fine with executing Osama bin Laden in Pakistan and dumping his body in the ocean, however, I am proud there are liberals like Michael Moore whose belief in the rule of law out weighs their instinct for revenge. I'm sure its a position he truly had to wrestle with.

Amy,

Your logic escapes me.

Revenge is ok as long as someone is out there struggling with said revenge?

That piece of garbarge murdered 3000 of my fellow countrymen.

Oh really Bev, cite me any bigotry on my part? Condescending yes but certainly I have never made demeaning reprehensible comments like Fiesty. It makes me cringe when Bachmann says remarks that put religion in a bad way no different than I cant stand Tim Tebow thanking God for a victory. But I dont make reprehensible comments against christians on here for it. No different from a gay or feminist wearing radical views (from a different perspective than theirs) on their sleeves I dont go around saying did you see those homos or fags wanting gay marriage or the feminazis buring their bras. I respect their opinion and if I disagree I can vote for the other candidate. Reprehensible comments that make fun of christians and when in this country did it become such a bad thing to pray?

As for asking Romney about his Mormon beliefs, I dont understand why you guys think thats funny? You should ask him just as you would ask a catholic about whether they believe that contraception is bad, or how the church is handling its pedophile problem or its stand against abortion. Its a very legitimate question just as asking Obama whether he agrees with a minister that he has known and listened to for 20 years whether he agrees with his anti american views. The asking of the questions in of themselves isnt bad at all, its the reprehensible attitudes you guys take towards people of faith that share different views than yours that is wrong.

Revenge is ok as long as someone is out there struggling with said revenge

Uh, yeah. I would hope civilized people would always struggle over revenge, otherwise innocent people are sometimes put to death (see: Gov. Perry.)

American citizens versus criminals of war.

I would certainly hope we could differentiate bewtween the two.

rickster...you notice anyone getting suspended on this blog for anything other than a re-reg? If you read what people say to Feisty on a daily basis, it is clear the attacks are largely against her. I have seen some vile posts coming from the right wing, that shouldn't be on a blog that decent people read. Those people are still here. So, get off the pity party.

Is there a double standard for some but not others?

A quick review of your account & comment(s) shows quite a history of personal attacks from you to others...

Interesting given the fact you're newly born on 9.2.11...

Like NNDR said - get off the pity party!

The answer to the question is this: since there is little effort to monitor FR, you will see that there are no banning or suspensions for anything but the most egregious violations, ie re regs and occasionally plagiarism. It is true that if some of these poster wrote some of the things that they do on a Newsvine article, they would be banned in short order. It is Newsvine staff that have responsibility for monitoring FR. FR staff believes and have said that you have to have a thick skin to be on this blog. So the rules, such as they are, ARE applied. Suspensions and banning are rare.

One more thing rickster: I don't agree that your question was civil. You start out with an insult toward someone I consider a friend and toward our hosts here. Hence, my response.

There is no doubt that Fiesty gets attacked with vile comments but really thats what you want to say to defend her? Is there ever a defense for bigotry regardless of whether someone else is guilty of it too? Your telling me its ok for her to personally attack and be insulting in a manner more akin to middle school girl fights and mean spirited backyard brawls than any intellectual critical thinking? She constantly gets called out for her hypocrisy, bigotry and nasty vile personal attacks and what is shameful is she is never repentent or sorry for ever going too far. She would be far more credible if she ever once in awhile said "You know your right I am going to be the bigger person here and not stoop to your level" "I am going to be the grownup in the room" that she likes to consider Obama as. But instead she goes right into the mud of bigotry and vile personal attacks that put her on the same level as those that do the same to her. She might be right that others do it too but she is wrong if she thinks she is somehow better than they are.

You know, Kirk, I read your post, and I am not trying to be rude, but I have no clue what point you are trying to make. Look, if you want to posit that making personal attacks is wrong, don't make them. What you will notice is that everyone else will respond in kind. I find that it is anonymity of the blog that causes perfectly nice people to say perfectly dreadful things. I do it too when I am attacked, not going to pretend my hands are clean. But, I have read some of the things that you and others have said to Feisty. So don't pretend that this is her responsibility.

You know, Kirk

Thanks NDD - in all fairness I need to bring you up to speed on Kirk (the newbie) - he just LOVES to play the circular argument game and he manages to always come out as the victim. Like that's anything new with the RWNJ's.

Kirk is a very sensitive little fellow...

Not to mention, his lack of paragraphs makes his ramblings virtually unreadable, so, I give you credit for wading through one...

Those fine attributes earned him a spot on my very select ignore list!

He's not worthy of my time or attention...

PS - I don't apologize for my style!

A wise man once mentioned that politics is a contact sport & if you're gonna throw a elbow you damn well be better to take one!

No problem Feisty, but I am tired of the faux outrage from that bunch.

I am tired of the faux outrage from that bunch.

Ain' that the truth - they sure can put the 'V' in the victim! ;o)

If I am so sensitive, why do you guys put me on ignore? NDD, find me a post in which I made vile nasty comments about Fiesty? You will find posts in which I call her out on her nasty reprehensible bigotry. Dont act stupid you know exactly what I am talking about. Its not faux outrage for bigotry. You cant really say your defense is that its ok for her to act that way because a few other posters do the same? Thats your defense?

Of course I am not worthy of your time and attention because you have no ability to defend your actions and dismissal is the best you can do. I notice that you never get the rest of the gang to come in and defend your religious bigotry?

Did you read my response above rickster, or are you just ignoring it?

You are now on ignore.

WHEW!

So, here is what I would suggest, rickster: if you are concerned about comments, you have the same right the rest of us do to click on the exclamation point at the bottom right of the screen. That allows you to flag the comment using the menu. It will also, if there are enough flags, cause a comment to be collapsed. Now, the right wing seems to have a love affair with Feisty, they consider EVERYTHING she writes to be so intimidating to them personally that she is collapsed daily. Spare me the faux outrage on this. If anyone is being selectively collapsed, it is Feisty.

As to banning: If you don't want to take my word over what happens, go to Newsvine, find the contact info, and contact the moderators. You have that right too. Otherwise, stay on the subject. No one cares about this but those who have very little to complain about in their lives and need the drama.

I'm familiar with that site rickster: it is a chat room of conservatives who come up with conspiracy theories about other people. I have also read where they are plotting to try to get one of the seeders removed from Newsvine for a ridiculous charge of having two accounts. So, your argument is that it is okay for them to be in a chat room, but it is not okay for a group of like minded progressives to do the same? Pretty dishonest, don't you think?

There was no intent by anyone to remove people from FR. That is a misreading of what happened. Look, here is my personal view, you can attack me for it if you want.

The problem that FR has is it relies on Newsvine for moderation. Because those moderators are dealing with Newsvine, anything done on FR is capricious and random, which lends to these theories. If I am over the line posting on FR, I am quite willing to take my lumps. Suspend me, ban me, whatever. Can't speak for you or anyone else. My other belief is that EVERYONE who posts should also be willing to be held to the same standard. That includes Feisty, who has been suspended in the past, and is currently serving a day's suspension, or anyone else that I call friend or foe on this blog. But if you read the old posts, Feisty is the one most attacked.

That particular discussion that you refer to in our chat was about how to respond more effectively, not banning people. We like to write. We like politics. We would like to write better. We have no more power than you do to have that happen. Proof? All the conservatives are still posting, are they not?

I have the right to my friendships, just like you do. If I want to join a chat that I am invited into, I have that right too, just like you do. I also have the right to privacy with my friends. Just like you do.

Now, you and I have had a very reasonable conversation about this, which I appreciate. Certainly has not been reasonable with some of the others. In a way, it is kind of funny. I have no clue how I, sitting in the middle of fly over country, an almost 60 year old, who stayed at home and raised four kids, one developmentally disabled became a part of a conspiracy theory run amok.

In the meantime, if you have any more questions, I am happy to answer them. If not, we can part friends, and disagree on some things, still respecting each other.

rickster: The particular person you mentioned was, I think, (and I am going to be careful here because I honestly don't remember) was banned as a re reg, and I don't think was banned on a FR site, but Newsvine. Again, I am not sure, PLEASE don't take it as more than that. No one was removed for saying things that disagreed with on site liberals. That is unfair to moderators. If you look at my comment at 2.38, I have told you how all of that is done anyway. It is collapsing comments that get moderators attention, and they and only they make the decision about suspensions or banning. Not our group, or anyone else.

But, in fairness, let me ask you this: this is a blog. It has no relevance other than that. Explain to me why one person took this blog so seriously that he threatened to hack Feisty's page, and then not only got into that chat room, but took information to create this kind of conspiracy and to attempt to humiliate a group of people that he doesn't know? You can say what you want about Feisty, but how morally correct is that? This is a BLOG. What possible personal issues would someone have to have to do that? I closed my account because of that. It felt far to threatening to continue to try to have these discussions. It took me a long time to recover, I felt personally violated. So, at least the temporary outcome was that this guy suppressed my right to feel safe to speak.

So, I hope you read that and remember: there are real people with real lives behind these monikers, and those people can be hurt.

But, I hope I have allayed whatever your concerns. There really was nothing more to it then a group of people that made friends. Sometimes the simplest answers are the real answers and no conspiracy exists. And that is true here.

And I enjoyed the conversation too. The thing you have to know about me personally is that I am not that computer literate. I am not one that contacts anyone for anything. But, you have the right, just like anyone does that posts here to contact the moderators, or FR staff. That contact information is available, both on Newsvine, as well as FR.

I didn't respond to your question about Feisty and the Obama visit. That was an APRIL FOOL'S DAY joke. That is all that it was. What I recall about it, if there was something directed to FR, was if it were permissible to do a prank or not. Just that and nothing more.

I agree with you rickster. I thought the Presidential visit thing was a bit juvenile. And yes, I did ask for really awful attacking posts to be flagged. I can't stand vulgarity and cruelty, so I will take that hit. I do think that those kinds of comments should be collapsed, whether it is lib or conservative. I don't like hypocrisy, that was honest. And some of the stuff posted got awfully nasty. The rules on the 'Vine preclude answering things like that on the blog. Specifically, they are to be flagged. I thought I was following the dictates of Newsvine, but I can certainly see your perception. Have I made posts that should have been collapsed? Sure. And they were. I didn't waste much angst on it because I thought I had it coming.

As to the advertising flag. Honestly, when safecracker did what he did, it was a shock as you can imagine. We did use it to protect our privacy. I think you might have wanted to protect yourself too.

But I am still interested in your response to what he did. Whatever our perceived sins were, it just seems to me that it doesn't rise to the level publishing a chat that we had. Do you?

I don't know what else I can say about this rickster. I have tried to let you get to know me as a person, so you know that I have no evil intent.

But, I appreciate the time we have spent on this. I feel like you gave me a fair hearing. Thank you for that. Will look for a response, but I just don't know what more I can say about it. I hope if we meet on FR that we can have a civil discussion on an issue. And not THIS issue! ; 0 I assume you can understand how tired of it I am.

Sorry, rickster, did you feel like I was cutting you off? I don't mean to. This is just a painful thing for me personally, as you can imagine.

But please don't blame anyone at FR or Newsvine. There was never any collusion, honestly. Nothing was done that you couldn't do, the contact information is published for all. I hope you also recognize that my advice to the group as a whole was to IGNORE a lot of posters. I felt like we all got into (if you will forgive the vulgarity) pissing matches instead of staying on topic and trying to post progressive ideals.

On a good note? I started out disliking you. And that has changed. Maybe that is the value of this blog, right? I hope you have changed your perceptions of me too. I am still trying to decide if I will continue to write here. I consider my actual specialty to be on the Founding of this country, Jefferson and Madison, I suppose I will be like an old war horse and not be able to resist the temptation.

But, again, thank you for your time. If you ever have a question for me personally, I will try to be honest in my response to you. The thing that bothers me the most about this is that I do value honesty, and it now appears that I don't. You have a good one too.

Dawning,

As for Slick Rick, FEMA is reportedly in Texas.....guess that's why he's staying away....gotta' campaign and all.

....not sure how is absence plays with those in the affected areas!

One of the hardest hit areas in Texas is in Bastrop, Texas......1200 residents are being helped by FEMA, Being moved from shelters to hotels since their homes have been destroyed.....and applying for additional benefits to try and piece their lives back together.

http://blog.fema.gov/2011/09/texas-wildfires-update-6-helping.html

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

I'm so glad to see you back.

I'm so glad to see you back.

Me too! ;o)

Hi, Beverly and Feisty: Missed you both something fierce! Love ya!

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Missed you both something fierce! Love ya!

Love ya too!

(L)

Are there any pundits that are truly objective any more? When I watch the Sunday Shows like Meet The Press all the pundits seem to be arguing for one political party or the other. They seem to be on to press their parties' talking points. Doris Kearns Goodwin is an exception, I think, but there don't seem to be many truly impartial voices anymore.

I agree, Amy---I wish the shows would have more neutral people who could give an historical perspective or fact-checking but it doesn't seem to be that way any more.

Amy---it reminds me of the polls where you see people not supporting health care reform and they say no but then when asked if they support its component parts (like coverage for children under 26 or no pre-existing conditions) they are in favor of those.

Steeler Fan

I wonder if journalists ever gather in their respective conference rooms and talk over whether they feel they are doing enough to report on the substance of politics, or if the reporting is too sensationalistic, personality-driven and party politics driven. Too much horse-race stuff and not enough about what is actually in the bills. The death panel rumor, for example, was so virulent it ended up forcing the Republican Congressman who proposed paying doctors to counsel patients on end of life issues, to withdraw his amendment.

Rubio will not accept a VP position and he has said so.

He wants to be the first Hispanic President and the likelihood of a VP running successfully for President is slim at best.

Rubio gives the right modest answer to VP talk...he doesnt give a "Sherman"-esqe answer.

"the likelihood of a VP running successfully for President is slim at best"

Not trure. Truman, Nixon, LBJ, George HW Bush...all VPs who became President. Gore, almost.

You cannot count the ones that became President by default (death).

Nixon lost on his try after being VP.

I get the duh award, I forgot to ask my question.

Why are they hiring American tradesmen for $150,000 a year to go to Iraq, just what are they building over there?

Why don't you apply for a job over there. Jobs have been available overseas most of my life with the tax free dividend. This is not a new phenomenon.

I got racially profiled and was turned down, it seems I look a little to ethnic, they prefer blonde haired men with light complexions so the enemy knows who to shoot at.

Really ITM we always hire American tradesmen to work in a country we are at war with, how about we a have a second Civil War then, we sure could use the work.

Forrest, do you truly believe that the GOP doesnt support A jobs bill or just disagrees philosophically with Obama's type of jobs bill? I agree it would be totally obstructionist if the GOP wasnt willing to negotiate some type of jobs bill. But its disengenous to say just pass the bill. Why should they and I dont think there would be a single GOP against a tradesman making money and you know that. The bottom line is that the vast majority of Obama's jobs bill is broken into two parts 1) an extension of the payroll tax cuts which you all dont think help the economy or create jobs and I dont either as it didnt work for Bush and hasnt worked so far for Obama. Temporary small cuts might create small blips in consumer demand but do nothing to create incentives to invest. Second, the vast majority goes to state and local communities to help with their budgets and "infrastructure" projects. We know what happens with these right? Much of the money will go, for example, in Illinois to bridge the huge unfunded government pension liability gaps and not for shovel ready projects unless those projects were already on the budget calendar and they will say its for these projects and shuffle the extra money into the union pensions. Furthermore, the infrastructure projects will come with a huge per job cost. Should we do a bunch of these of course but you know that this is temporary and wont on its own get the economy going. Philosophically, the GOP just views that there are better ways to create jobs than through government spending and that doesnt mean that they dont want tradesman to earn money here.

Kirk---if the GOP believes in a jobs bill, where is it? Why haven't we seen one in the House since they took control of it? They have renamed post offices but not introduced a jobs bill.

If they want tradesmen to work here it is real simple spend some money on infrastructure, every state in the union has federal properties that need work. The tax cuts are useless and I think Obama knows that, but I think he has to put a bone in there for Boehner to get it past the house, I think he put tax breaks in there just for republicans to have something they like, he sure did not put them in there for his base. It is really very simple appropriate the money and narrowly define the projects, to only include federal properties, such as the airports, interstate highways and bridges, and federal buildings, start rolling the specific projects out on the Dodge report, and let local contractors bid the projects at prevailing wage labor rates. That's it, just a spending bill period, but only on federal properties that need it, there is plenty that needs to done, no handing out tax breaks or stacks of money to state governors to do as they wish, a national federal infrastructure spending bill period. How about 250 billion, 5 billion for projects in each state, fair for everybody no state gets more no state gets less. These things that need addressing will not get any cheaper to do if you wait, this will help the contractors, their suppliers, the trucking companies that deliver the materials, ect, and the money earned by the workers will instantly roll right back into the economy, helping all the small businessmen in those communities. Hell Kirk some of these guys could buy some Hallmark ornaments and some xmas cards if Santa Clause (the US government, Ha I knew you would like that) would just bring them a job for Xmas. I know, I know only liberals still believe in Santa Clause, well liberals and lots and lots of children of republicans, democrats, and independents who's daddies need a job or a customer.

Steeler Fan, whether you feel the same, I am pretty sure that most GOP legislators feel that many of the bills they have passed just as repealing Obamacare are Jobs bills. I think there bills for tort reform are in their view jobs creators and I think you probably intuitively know they both would either create jobs or prevent jobs from being lost. However both ideas from a democratic standpoint have their own constituent issues that would not pass muster with their base. Finger pointing at the GOP on this issue is not meaningful and I dont mean that to be flippant like other posters on this board its resolving some of the philosophical differences. Making the GOP label some bill can call it a Jobs Bill may or may not happen because the GOP just thinks that creating ways to incent the private sector to grow is a better jobs creator than more government spending. We do have a 3 year history of using that method which hasnt been too successful.

That said, I actually agree with Forrest and I wish the GOP would get off the tax cut bus at least in terms of these short term political gimmicks like payroll cuts, child credits, bush tax cut extensions etc. Those are political pleasing positions but in order to create real incentives, real tax reform is needed. I also think tax incentives for the corporate sector where the government stops picking winners and losers like GE, oil companies, farmers etc needs to be eliminated. A simple flat fair no loophole tax rate for all corporations that is much lower than today but is applied across the board is necessary plus if we created investment tax credits or accelerated depreciation and left the capital gains rates for real investment not hedge fund guys, we can create reasons to grow. As for infrastructure, Forrest your plan is excellent and I would hope the GOP would get behind it but thats not what I read in the paper as Obama's proposal. His proposal is more money to the states but with more going to his blue states etc which will come across as political pandering, etc. Plus any money that provides incentives for Hallmark ornaments would really help with the estate planning on my part, so if you have any lobbying power I am with you. ha. Its not true that infrastructure projects dont create jobs but they are temporary and we need more to get the private sector going so the construction then goes to private sector projects after that. It also doesnt create jobs if the money is just being used to fund already approved state projects (which is what happened in my town) with money then being used to pay unfunded pension and health care benefits. It was a sneaky way of putting money in the union pensions through a budget gimmick so not one new job was created. In Illinois I bet not one new job was created as a result of the last stimulus just budget gimmickery. Please dont think I am picking on the unions as that issue needs to be addressed as these are benefits that were promised them by legislators that knew the money wouldnt be there but I think we need to be honest and transparent about the issue.

No I agree no money for state governors to do as they wish. All federal projects, all monies controlled by the fed not the state and all project supervision by the fed not the state (by hiring local project managers and engineers) these guys need the work as well. No tax breaks not even for these new hires, pump the money in at the bottom let it flow up to the business owners everybody gets some benefit from the spending and everybody pays back a little in taxes. I have no lobby power, but yes all kinds of small businessmen just like the hallmark store would benefit from people in their community having a dollar to spend, tax breaks just don't help them much, customers is what I think they need.

Hi Leona, Did you post that link I asked for on Monday, I've been busy and may have missed it. If so, could you please direct me to where you did so. You do remember the one, it was where you stated Mrs Obama has spent over $10m on private vacations? Thanks, appreciate your time.

dailymail.com, look it up, google it, it's easy

GM:

It is all over the net but I don't dwell on things like that. ALL politicians and their families endulge in those endeavors.

Leona and inthemiddle, are you two saying that it is obsolutely true that Michelle Obama spent $10 million on vacations?

read all about it, just google michelle obama spends 10 million on vacations. Don't let us tell you.

read all about it, just google michelle obama spends 10 million on vacations

The only thing worse then a troll, is a LAZY a@@ troll...

Leona, you didn't disappoint me. the DailyMail? Why that's just a gossip rag, I mean substantive, easily checked facts, which you wont find there. I guess its another false claim to smear the President and First Lady

feisty, too bad you fall into the category of people who, when they are LOSING THE DEBATE, resort to name calling because they are too weak to stick to the issues..... I wouldn't go there if I had so little to say of any worth, if I were you..

hey Gingerbread, how should we "check the facts" about the $10 million, by asking Michelle?! haha you only like your own fantasy facts when it comes to the Obamas. If the daily mail wrote something negative about Bush, you'd be trumpeting it so loud your lungs would collapse. haha

Leona, just answer me please, are you saying it is absolutely true that Michelle Obama spent $10 million on private vacations?

kingofmyhill, ask the dailmail if its true. They wrote it and so did others papers. I just read it. I didn't write it. Maybe you can ask the Obama's for the truth? OH WAIT, you won't get any answers. Just like they won't tell you why Jeff Immelt (GE) paid NO taxes and ships jobs to China . At the same time, Immelt is Obama's "jobs Czar." Mums the word. SSSHHHHHH

Because you act as if it is true. Why else repeat it. I'm just trying to get a sense of who I can trust when I read what they post. If it is an interesting subject, I will research it and determine if that poster was full of it. But you don't want to have to go verify everything someone says. You need to be able to trust that they are posting the truth. Sadly, I don't think you are.

Leona: Answer the following questions:

What is the vacation policy for Presidents and First Ladies of this country. What does security demand? You have LIED about what the Obama's have spent on private vacations, alluding that it is public money. Now, put your little teeny tiny brain to this. The most recent statistic (Factcheck.org) I can find for the Obama's vacation day was as of August 18, 2011. The number is 61. By that same date in the Bush's Presidency they had taken 200 days of vacation time. Tell me, how much did Laura Bush, who had an entourage and used the same transport that the Obama's do, spend?

http://news.yahoo.com/presidential-vacations-numbers-223500121.html

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/08/11/obamas-vineyard-vacation-will-cost-taxpayers-millions

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1110/How_much_do_Obamas_foreign_trips_cost.html

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/11/ask-factcheck-trip-to-mumbai/

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEcQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gao.gov%2Farchive%2F1999%2Fns99164.pdf&rct=j&q=cost%20of%20presidential%20trips&ei=-FlyTqeBI-XI0AGtu9j0CQ&usg=AFQjCNF0iOfrGiktGCysxUigscPKcWxvIA&sig2=AJVH38NVI2_Ds57DZZsXeQ&cad=rja

Read some stuff...presidential trips are EXPENSIVE, no matter who the president is...

President George W Bush officially spent an average of 17
weeks every year of his Presidency on vacation. So far our current President is
averaging 3 ½ weeks a year on vacation.

LEONA-2986819

LEONA,

Right-Wing Bloggers Turn To National Enquirer To Smear Michelle Obama

August 25, 2011 9:48 am ET

Pajamas Media, Powerline, The Lonely Conservative, and Gateway Pundit are among the far-right sites that have been peddling the National Enquirer’s hate story, which attacks the First Lady as a spoiled and arrogant shopaholic with expensive taste in alcohol.

London’s notoriously unreliable (and Obama-hating) Daily Mail first put the National Enquirer story in play, quoting the tabloid’s unnamed sources who denounced the First Lady’s “out-of-control” and “disgusting” behavior. Bloggers have linked approvingly to the Daily Mail article, effectively hyping the National Enquirer’s lurid brand of check-out aisle gossip

What’s telling is that unlike previously misguided attacks that centered around Michelle Obama’s advocacy work to reduce childhood obesity, the vicious and oddly personal posts this week about the First Lady have nothing to do with policy. It's just the right-wing advertising its unapologetic contempt for the president’s wife.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201108250005

I love Leona's "I'm just reporting what I read" mantra.

At least they've walked it WAY back from the estimates of just that one little bitty trip to MUMBAI, right?

They don't have to post facts,...their efforts are far more insidious. They just say it and then make others prove them wrong. And once they are proven wrong,...well, they've already moved on to 5 or 10 OTHER misstatements.

Who has the Rove Playbook? I mean it's textbook stuff. I say we stop feeding this troll. But that's just me.

haha. mediamatters.org blog....let's listen to what they have to say! What makes a blog from media matters the expert here? haha it must be stressful living in Obama fantasy land

fantasy

I'm sure he'll be glad to know you miss him, we all do.

Probably on the Village People reunion tour.

Probably on the Village People reunion tour.

OMG!

I actually LOL at that one...

So where is he?? Three responses with no answer to what I thought was a pretty straight forward question. No wonder the discussion here gets boring.

We liberals like to respect the privacy of others so if Navy wants you to know his whereabouts, it is up to him to tell you.

Is he dead???

If he were dead and came back to tell you about it REB---there would be some real news to report.

So even in his absence he is a non entity in your mind. You know Steeler fan you could have just answered the question but even something as simple as that is difficult for you people. Oh and by the way it's not only liberals that respect privacy.

thetotas, answer to your question : because it would make communist China mad.

thetotas,

The Presidents message was and is to the Dems that aren’t willing to consider the Trade Bills because of certain antiunion language.

He hasn’t sent them the bill because if it is defeated then the entire negotiation process must start all over and will take another 18 months. In other words he hasn’t sent then the Trade Agreements because as of
now they will not pass.

Dennis,

Is this a typo?

to the Dems that aren’t willing to consider the Trade Bills because of certain antiunion language.

If not, why would democrats be unwilling to consider the bills because of antiunion language?

Leona: I posted questions to you at 10.13. I would appreciate a response. Or are you one of those that likes to throw dirt at the President and his family, and then run when you are caught out?

NDD...ret'd

ding, ding, ding - we have a winner here,...see my post at 10.17. STTS.

Yep, think you are right on that one, Clara: always fun to see if the trolls want to deal with fact, without running away. stts indeed emphasis on ts. I think theotas has just joined that group too.

newsday, you can stop ranting and demanding. I read an article and repeated it here. Simple as that. If you have a problem with the article about Michelle Obama's vacations, write to the daily mail, not me. I don't work for them. They reported it. If it's false, you'll have to get them to admit that. As far as trying to attack me goes, I don't make stuff up. I simply read stuff and I assume it's the truth, unless it's written by someone like you, of course. Name calling always provides info about people like you.

RETURNED,

Its kind of cute you with your Libs-R-Us codes.

You posted the article, Leona as though it signified something. Therefore, I ask you to support what you have said. Now, explain the vacation policy for the First Families, and how much Laura Bush spent.

theotas: did you ever correct your plagiarism? Just so you know, no jo finds that particularly offensive. Still waiting for answers to the questions on the right to freely associate.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED <------- :0)

No, and no.

I notice that the Libs-R-Us is not playing fair again. First your undercover meetings at the DDI and now blocking your account history.

(Jun 18, 9:11 PM): NDD: I just went and saw it. I am pissed, god only knows what else they got.

Not fair, right?

First your undercover meetings at the DDI and now blocking your account history

And here is another bitter old blonde broad who lives vicariously through others.. LMFAO!

Honey - ONE MORE TIME - slow AND stupid is NO way to go through life!

Then again, you have to have one....

thetotas,

So according to YOU, doing what Newsvine allows all of its members to do is not fair.

You seem to be using No Joe’s “Critical Thinking”.

My goodness, poor theotas just can't stand being left out!

Well it seems, that Leona and Thetotas are great at dropping nuggets of misinformation and then when challenged getting all huffy.

And what is this undercover meetings and blocking our account history? Didn't know we now had to report to these yahoos? I wasn't aware Thetotas was checking our account histories, what are you looking for?

We are surrounded by stupid and petty, Feisty and NDD. They throw out half truths and innuendos and expect us to swallow them wholesale and not challenge them. That wont happen, not on this watch.

All of you who are part of the Lib-R-Us has lost all credibility along time ago. You block history but shamefully go into others and use it against them. Justify that if you can.

GM, not on your watch, what the he!!, just plain embarrassing.

So please continue with your little tag team assaults, I find them childish, but very amusing.

RETURNED - Tells me so much about you, a true Narcissus.

Now I am off to play with my dogies

Ah, GBM, you have that right m'dear! Theotas is annoyed with me because I caught her giving a quote without attribution. But, poor theotas can't seem to realize that she is making herself look ridiculous with all the paranoia about a group of friends. Or, perhaps, she has no friends so cannot relate to the experience! In any case, she brings nothing to FR that is worth reading. And she seem to have a lot of difficulty understanding that plagiarism IS serious, and can cause some legal difficulties

RETURNED,

Sounds like you are a little miffed.

Lie. lying, a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

Like I said you lost all creditability, along time ago, and now you try and pin a label on me. Iam sure you know the meaning of libel, right?

Okay, I'll bite...what on earth are you talking about NOW theotas? I suggested to you that plagiarism is serious. Did I lie about that?

RETURNED,

3. Okay, I'll bite...what on earth are you talking about NOW theotas? I suggested to you that plagiarism is serious. Did I lie about that?

2. Theotas is annoyed with me because I caught her giving a quote without attribution. Lie!

1. theotas: did you ever correct your plagiarism?

You are so silly, as silly as coming back as - newdayDAWNING...RETURNED, Very dramatic, but somehow its lost in translation.

theotas:

Here t'is: First Read: In Ohio, Obama Presses Congress to Pass Jobs Bill, Shawna Thomas, 9/13/2011. Your comment appears at 9.3. When I inquire about it, your next post begins "OK, NDD, I thought the date on the post would be enough..."

Originally, when I challenged you to provide the source, I was doing that as a favor to you. One does try to educate those in need along the way. Now, I will be watching for it.

You may apologize for accusing me of lying. And grow up. You are making a spectacle out of yourself. All this conspiratorial thinking about a group of people who are friends tells us about YOUR inadequacies. Not everything in this world that you don't like is a conspiracy. Sometimes, the simplest truth IS the truth. If you want to gain traction on FR start acting like an adult, start researching and learn to write.