E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSTUCSON, Ariz. -- Mitt Romney was in former CEO mode this morning as he addressed a group of 40 local business leaders at a Ford dealership here, with regulatory reform, tax policy and health care reform dominating the hour-long discussion.
Romney opened his hour-long question-and-answer session with a private-sector anecdote about his decision to pass on investing in a start-up airline.
"I said look, I'm not investing in anymore airlines, I don't care what the story is. It's just too scary. And Jet Blue went on and did pretty well without me," Romney said to laughs from the group. "I haven't been right 100% of the time, but I've learned from the mistakes. I learned what causes businesses to grow, what causes them to shrink. I've learned about competition domestically and internationally, and I'm devoted to making America the most attractive place in the world for business."
That business-friendly message is a cornerstone of Romney's frequent roundtables with local business leaders, and he largely stayed on that message today.
In response to a question on the topic of immigration reform -- an important issue in this border state -- and Gov. Rick Perry's position on offering in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants, Romney noted that this was an area in which he disagreed with Perry, but that he himself was strongly in favor of legal immigration -- with highly skilled immigrants or those with advanced degrees moving to the front of the line.
In a nod to his host, local car dealer and major GOP donor and kingmaker Jim Click, who also hosted a luncheon for Romney later in the day, the former Massachusetts governor compared structural health-care cost problems to the car business.
"It'd be like in the automobile business if the customer came in and they paid $1,000 dollars -- and that was it, that was effectively their deductible,” he said. “They pay $1,000 dollars and after that it’s free. They can get any car they want. They pay $1,000 dollars and after that it’s free, paid for by someone else. And then the sales person, they get a commission based on the more automobile they give you," Romney said, describing the pay-for-service model of healthcare. "So we'd all be driving Ferraris and Rolls Royces. That's what happened in health care, and we've got to change that."
On the economy, Romney continued in his ongoing critique of President Obama's policies, saying his new jobs program simply moved money from one federal pocket to another, and repeated that while he thinks Obama is a "nice guy," he doesn't have a clue on the economy "never having signed the front of a payroll check."
Romney also weighed in on last night's special-election results in New York and Nevada. He pointed a questioner to Dan Senor's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal this morning, which suggests President Obama (and by extension other democratic candidates) are losing the Jewish vote for what Senor (a Romney foreign policy advisor) considers to be Obama's "one-sided" relationship with Israel.
Romney said voters also selected GOP candidates because they believe the president's economic policies have failed. He did not mention either new congressman by name.
Asked by one business leader to handicap the race, Romney used a quote he attributed to Yogi Berra, saying he didn't like forecasting, "especially when the future is involved."
But Romney did say he still felt the economy would be the driving force in the 2012 elections, and that "if people don't like the way the economy is going, they'll vote for someone new." Earlier in the event, he was more bold, saying it was important to get ideas to help the economy from business leaders.
"There's a good shot I could be in the White House some day," Romney said. "Not a sure deal, but a good shot."
As Romney was preparing to leave the building, a reporter shouted a question, asking how important Arizona, which yesterday announced it would move it's primary up to the end of February, was for his campaign.
Romney's only response: "Very."
Leave a Comment:
I can just see Mittless now, in his plaid jacket, white patent leather shoes, red bow tie, yellow rayon pants, and blue striped shirt.
Yeah - I'd buy a car from that guy!
Now that's a funny image - Willard on a car dealership lot...
I wouldn't buy a ham sandwich from that moron let alone a car... new or used!
And that ain't NO BULL! lol
Probably at the used car end of the lot......just like Mittens!
Richard, Richard......that's too funny!
Richard, good one but you forgot the cigar in the corner of his mouth. Actually, Romney does remind me of that guy you described.
Richard - the checks in the mail... lmao!
lol-
You guys are hilarious...but somehow, I doubt that President Obama is laughing.
This hasn't been a good day.
Romney is still a viable alternative to President Obama.
He looks better today.
Who (in their right mind) would argue that President Obama does?
Pay attention to the "right mind" disclaimer...
Feisty - Amazon will over night ship.
All I can picture is Dan Ackroyd hawking 'Bass-O'Matic's...
For those who don't remember:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BQFv83QJ2Y
Time for some *popcorn*
Again...
"right mind"?
lol
I understand.
First Readers are hurting today.
They ought to be.
It's not going to get better.
"Romney is still a viable alternative to President Obama.
He looks better today."
You're right, but here's a bright side:
Romney would not be as far around the bend as scewballs like Perry or Bawkmann, and once in office, I'm sure he would 'flip' on a lot of the postions he is campaigning on NOW.
Obama was at NC State today, doing some more snake-oil salesmanship on his latest "Jobs Plan" scheme. The college students loved him. Wait until they try to get a job when they graduate, they'll lose some of that love.
Obama 2012 - "It Could Be Worse - Much Worse"
I was struck by Romney's story on staying out of airline stocks, and missing the windfall on Jet Blue.
How can he possibly be a viable candidate, when he did not immediately single out who was to blame for his decision?
He could have blamed Kennedy, or Weld, or the democratic party. Instead, he blames himself, and claims he learned from his mistake?
What kind of a person are we dealing with here? What kind of a person owns their mistakes and learns from them?
Certainly not Obama.
So what wa the purpose of this meeting with car dealers? No discussions on jobs, debt ceiling, taxes, GOD???
Not sure. But somewhere in the conversations, the planet Kolob probably came up.
He is devoted alright, he and the rest of Teapublicans and their race to the bottom.
The lack of demand in the US is making other markets more attractive. Businesses set-up operations where their customers are. Also, the global market means the US is up against China devaluing their currency, sweat shops and even child labor, skyrocketing pollution, unsafe goods, etc. Teapublican's solution is to abolish the minimum wage, abolish the EPA, deregulate Wall Street and forget about Too Big To Fail. NO!
We should be in a race to the top. If American workers have good-paying jobs, they can spend, and the US market will be #1. Companies like Toyota have put their plants here in the past for that reason, along with fair trade policies including tariffs. If we invest in education, infrastructure, and most of all new technologies the US can recover and hopefully enjoy the American Dream once more.
Enough of the doom and gloom Haters in the Tea Party, and the GOP/TP owned by Big Oil and other special interests. If you want more dismal Bush economics, that's what Perry's Crony Capitalism and his ilk will give you. Throw the traitors out!
I don't want to quibble, JoAnna.
But...
"Much Worse"?
You'll have to provide substantiation.
But, not much.
The sky could be on fire. That would be "much worse".
Obama 2012 - "I Stopped The Sky From Being On Fire"
JoAnna-
OK, OK...
The desperation from the left is starting to show much more flamboyant colors these days. I wonder when even they will realize that their name calling tactics simply don't phase any of us right wing fanatics at all. They try to outdo each other but even they are blind to the fact that Obama is a falling star and he's already burning up in the atmosphere.
The constant reminders from the right about how Obama has failed this country and his office are having a great effect on their ability to focus on how bad Obama really is. The ONLY thing they can do is namecall and go after any and all republican candidates. By far, Huntsman is their choice for going up against Obama because he is almost a liberal. They can relate to him but he doesn't stand a chance of getting the nod.
Liberals start out their day all fired up, but lose a lot of steam by the end of the day... except today, they just didn't have it in them... Obama is in trouble... and even the liberals know it.
Brianb -
Is Obama in trouble?
Or, are we?
The cheers for a high number of executions, and shout outs to let someone die instead of having a better health care system, and booing the real reason for terrorism (Santorum showed how stupid he is compared to Ron Paul on that one) -- talk about showing true colors.
The GOP/TP suck at everything from foreign policy (the Bush Doctrine is dead), to fiscal policy with their failed "trickle-down" voodoo economics, to everything in the constitution from civil/individual liberties, the social contract (understanding true limited government), right for labor to organize -- What do they excel at except underhanded machinations like obstructionism? Oh, right, they are better at suppressing the truth.
Good point, Richard.
Like all former U.S. Presidents...
Obama will be a wealthy man.
The rest of us should be so fortunate.
"The GOP/TP suck at everything from foreign policy (the Bush Doctrine is dead), to fiscal policy with their failed "trickle-down" voodoo economics, to everything in the constitution from civil/individual liberties."
They even suck at mental masturbation.
Though, in their minds, their 'winners'.
"Like all former U.S. Presidents...
Obama will be a wealthy man."
I don't see him going from 28 mill to 950 mill during an 8 year term - Like W.
He's not likely to get 8 years, Richard.
Let's just see what the 4-year total is, shall we?
"Is Obama in trouble?
"Or, are we?"
Wake up, Richard.
We're in trouble.
Obama will be just fine.
At most, Obama did donate his Nobel money to charity.
I'm not sure what W did with his.
I agree with you, Mixed.
We are in deep dodo.
And, I didn't have to 'wake up' to realize that.
W shoved his up Saddam Hussen's @$$ and freed 25 million people. How many people has Obama freed? Right now Obama's holding back about 350 million people in this country and he's trying to enslave most of us.
"W shoved his up Saddam Hussen's @$$ and freed 25 million people."
W -
All while killing 200,000.
And spending 4 trill - And expending 6,000 U.S. - And maiming 100,000 U.S.
I don't know how many Obama has freed, but if freeing means death or dismemberment, than W is number 1.
Good points Richard.
Boy oh boy,....can you hear the right wingies crowing about Nev and NY? It's almost like they haven't had any good electoral news since last year.
Oooops,...that's right, they haven't.
You right wing ding dings go ahead and celebrate. It's all you got.
You see, I remember why Obama is sitting in the White House in the first place: the repubs blew this country up from 2000-2008 and America broomed em' out. With any luck, America's memory will be restored in time.
I don't think the cavalry is coming over the hill for you people in 2012 like you think it will. Unfortunately for you repubs, you'll be the last ones to get the memo.
When America gets their choice between a collection of right wing boobs and Obama, I think they'll choose the devil they know.
I feel it more than I know it.
NY 9 -- So the circus and carnival barkers in the GOP/TP will become Jerry Springer -- Just great. Thankfully it's only for a year, but what the heck were these voters thinking?! Maybe they are like a few posters in this thread who haven't heard that President Obama got bin Laden. Didn't FAUX Noise report that?
Now what about a used car salesman...his name is Romney or something?
Have you driven a Fraud lately?
Are you too ignorant and biased to not even know how ignorant that is?
An American company with American workers that works hard to make it, that succeeds enough to not have to be supported by the American tax payer .... is a Fraud?
What pathetic dependent mentality.
A true fraud ..... people like you thinking that dependency on government is American.
Bob - didn't you know that it's much easier to depend on the government to make all your choices for you than for you to spend your energy trying to do it? The government always makes the correct decisions... they never fail at anything, nor could they. They even have a president that never does the wrong thing. He's trying very hard to run this country and don't you know it's a hard, hard job? He's constantly under attack by Fox News... and those republican conservative talk show hosts. You know he is simply the best president we've ever had... ever! ::blink::
::blink blink:: ::blink::
OMG!!! I just had the worst nightmare I've ever had in my life.... I dreamed I was a liberal!
Corporations that depend on taxpayer dollars and sit back and watch the Republican Party give the impression that this is what they want are the real frauds. From what I have read and have watched in congressional hearings; corporations want to do what is best for the American people. But they are allowing the Republican Party to describe them as needing welfare (subsidies) to create jobs. Large corporations no longer need these tax loopholes, this welfare has forced them to hire scores of accountants to decipher the madness in the tax code. These corporations need to stand up and present themselves as responsible American businesses that once had visions of helping to create a strong America; not the America the Republicans want.
may not make any sense "just venting".
Good one!
What causes businesses to shrink is declining wages in this country; too many people can't afford to buy what is produced here. CEO's are making million dollar salaries while not giving workers a raise or asking them to take pay cuts or reduced hours. Companies hire temporary employees to avoid providing benefits, not just health care but sick leave and vacation as well. They keep the hours just under the number needed to be full time. 1 in 6 Americans live in poverty. John Huntsman is right, Americans want to hear a plan not a lot of hot air, not a lot of bluster, not a lot of bragging.
Let's look at why companies go bankrupt-
If you make a product at a cost of six dollars, sell it for three, while your competitors are selling the same product for a dollar fifty, you are going bankrupt.
Somebody should have clued Obama in on this highly technical bit of business sense.
Then maybe we would not be on the hook for half a billion dollars for Solyndra- which was warned that they were circling the drain by their auditors BEFORE Obama fast tracked the loans.
On the other hand, he had a big donor to pay back, so it never mattered anyway.
Spot on topic there, NJNB.
Jody,
You liberals just don't get it. A business is to make money, not to be a charity. If a business can't sell what they produce, then they have to lay people off to reduce cost. If you don't have enough work for the number of employees then you have to reduce the number of employees. You don't just let employees hang around doing nothing. Businesses are not charities.
Jody, your post and that of NJNB just below highlight the basic differences between left and right.
The left argues for the average guy, the middle class, and how they are being crushed by the corporations.
The right argues for business and corporations and how it is all about making a dollar, paying someone off.
We need a little of both, not just one or the other.
sfcret, if businesses do not take care of their workers, give them good working conditions and fair pay, who will do the work? Will the CEOs roll up their sleeves and stand on the production line?
It is NOT all about the money. It is about producing a quality product, with a well treated and well managed workforce, that sells at a fair price.
Fielden,
I am mostly talking about the majority of small businesses that are ran and operated by individuals and families. I know many small businesses that the owners roll up their sleeves and work beside their employees. These are businesses that hire the majority of workers and these are the ones that Obama wants to raise taxes on, when he mentions millionaires and billionaires (he really means individuals making $200K+ and couples making $250K+). The liberals like to talk about CEOs of major corporations, which actually make up a small minority. But it is basically the same principal, corporations make money for their owners (share holders) and they need to show a profit and a return to their shareholders, they are not a charity either and the pay of the CEOs are controlled by the board members which in turn can be controlled by the stock holders.
Hi Sarge,
Actually mom and pop businesses only account for 6% of the American workforce.
The 200k/250k is net (not gross) profit which means all business expenses including business investments are not included.
It is also important to remember that the additional tax rate is only for income earned above the 200k/250k.
I'm just tired of paying rich people's taxes for them. Let them pay the same rate I do, that's all!
sfcret:
Come on into the real world. Boards frequently do NOT control CEO's. In fact, the reverse is generally true. As far as stockholders.......Well, that's almost too ridiculous for words.
The fact is that President Obama has proposed REDUCING taxes on true small business owners - the very guys you tout - the ones who work along side the worker bees. The President has also suggested other help for small business, and the damned Republicans have stopped him. Now, that's a fact and I'm am sick of hearing otherwise.
Major corporations have absolutely nothing in common with small business owners.....NOTHING. Show me one of those small business owners - the ones you know - who have an army of lobbyists in Washington, D.C.
As far as cutting costs, every business offers some combination of the following when setting price - Cost, service, quality. There are no exceptions to this rule. There are alternatives to simply cutting employees.
When President Obama talks about raising taxes on millionaires and billionaires, that's who he is talking about.
Hi Dennis,
I am not just talking about mom and pop businesses, I am talking about all small businesses, those that usually employ one to 500 workers. I realize the $200K/$250K is net. That is not a large income in some states. I know a lot of small businesses that net $200K+.
My other point is I keep hearing the liberals and President Obama talking about making the millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share, he says that in almost every speech, when he knows that he is really talking about people $200K/$250K. I mentioned once that I believe the Republicans should pass a tax hike on all people making $1 million plus since those are the ones Obama keeps talking about. We both know that it wouldn't make a dent in any budget. What we need is a complete revision of the tax codes.
BTW Dennis I didn't see a lot of comments from the left concerning the election in NY9. I was really interested how they would spin it (lol). Have a good evening.
David Walker,
Maybe you should join the real world. First I agree Obama is always saying we need to tax the millionaires and billionaires their fair share when campaigning or giving political speeches, but he constantly talks about the $200K+$250K+ when he is in negotiations about the Bush tax cuts, which by the way, are now his tax cuts since he extended them.
What help has be proposed for small businesses that the republicans have stopped. There are 6 or 7 jobs bills passed by the house sitting in the Senate and the Senate under the leadership of Harry Reid won't bring them up.
Further, David I am damn tired of hearing you liberals complain about the republicans, I am damn tired of you liberals thinking Obama is entitled to everything he wants. I am damn tired of liberals thinking it's the governments job to repair/build schools, pay for teachers, police and firefighters, these are the responsibility of the states, local governments and school districts. I am damn tired of liberals thinking the government is responsible for everything from cradle to grave.
The most important part is that the additional rate is
only above the 200/250k. For example if the single owner had a net profit of
300k the additional taxes he/she would pay $3,500.
Fair share is in relation to our progressive tax system.
You can say the only fair tax system is a flat tax or a national sales tax but
neither is going to be incorporated any time soon, so let’s work on a fix
within the current system. Over the years the higher tax brackets had a much
higher tax rate. All that is being proposed is going back to the rate when Bush
43 took office and even then to only be applied to incomes above that magic 200/250.
There were many stories/excuses about NY9 today – I didn’t
pay much attention and the only reason I heard, that made sense had to do with
the Jewish vote.
sfcret:
How about you try this on for size? This link takes you directly to a McConnell-blocked jobs bill: http://washingtonindependent.com/93079/republicans-filibuster-small-business-bill
There's more. How about you right-wingers start admitting that McConnell has deliberately blocked bill after bill with the threat of a filibuster? This is the jerk whose stated goal is to limit President Obama to one term. How very American. Is this really about this country, or is this about Republicans? When you took your oath, was it to protect America or the Republican Party?
The fact is you clowns want to paint everyone who disagrees with you with the same brush. There are many points of view within the group you disparagingly label as "liberals". I speak only for myself, but I have not suggested that President Obama should get everything for which he has asked. I do not agree with him on any number of issues. Indeed, I disagree with his positions with more frequency than I would like. Even at that, he is far superior to anyone the Republicans have put forward to day. All we get from them is the same old failed BS. That's the truth and you know it. You just won't admit it.
I am sick and tired of people who made their living on the government, and then take a fine retirement for serving.........Well, how many years did you serve before retiring with a lifetime pension and medical care? Spare me your BS.
Where do you draw the line with government(s). You say the feds don't belong in the schools. All right, who is bailing out the irresponsible local governments that are overextended? That's the feds, Sarge. Local governments across the country are in the red. Who bails them out? There is only one state in the entire union that has a solvent pension fund. ONE! Who bails them out? The feds, that's who.
Why do we need a Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation? We need it because your vaunted private enterprise promised far more than they could deliver and the feds are bailing them out after the incompetent bastards ran their businesses into the ground.
The fact is the government has been taking care of you - and countless millions more - for quite some time, hasn't it? Oh wait, you earned it. Liberals don't earn anything, do they?
David,
You are a typical liberal that thinks the government owes you everything. I don't know how old you are but I am willing to bet that you could have joined the military and served 20 years and took a retirement as I and many others did. Did we earn our retirement, you damn right we did, just like any other person that is working for a private business or in a government job as a civilian. I was stationed in 5 different foreign countries and served 2 tours in Vietnam. Yes, I earned my retirement and it is not a fine retirement and my medical care, (I am over 65) is Medicare. Since Medicare started in 1965 all military personnel pay into it and when becoming 65 start drawing Medicare. I have continued to work and still do to this day. FYI, I also retired from the local fire department after 15 yrs of service, and yes I earned my retirement from the FD.
I do not look down on anyone who worked for and received their retirement benefits regardless of who they worked for. My complaint is with people that think the government must take care of everyone regardless of their status. If you worked for a government, federal, state, local, then you have earned your retirement. I don't mind liberals who have earned their retirements or pay checks, I do mind liberals that think it's the government responsibility to take care of them from cradle to grave.
As for the states, they got themselves into the mess they are in and it is up to them to get out of it. States have the right to raise taxes, fees and to control the expenditures in their states, just like most local communities have. FYI, the federal government is broke, in debt, no money to be bailing anyone out. Obama talks about spending his pending stimulus to hire teachers, police and firefighters. That is only a temporary fix and only benefits public employee unions. The last stimulus of almost $1 Trillion, was suppose to get us out of this recession (yes it is still a recession no matter what the so called experts say). How about the $535 million for the company in California, that Obama pushed for so be could give a speech when he went to CA, even if the department of energy advised against it.
Good night
With "Right to Work" states increasing; How many states have teacher, firefighter and police unions? How many states have active worker unions? Aren't their numbers and impact decreasing? I learned yesterday that my state of residence which is Georgia, a "Right to Work" state; has an unemployment rate of 10.1% and a poverty rate that places it the 3rd most impoverished state in the country.
sfcret:
What's a "typical liberal"?
If I'm one of those, let me help you broaden your definition. This typical liberal wonders about someone who bitches about cradle to grave care all the while "working" for the government. This typical liberal hears the constant complaints from typical conservatives who constantly complain about lazy and overpaid government "workers". This typical liberal sees how someone who has chosen a job where his employer - the government - tells him what to wear, when to get up, what to eat, where to go, you know - effectively separates him from the thinking process - would be a perfect typical conservative. Wow, lockstep for life. How very comforting. This typical liberal wonders why you didn't complain about working for a deadbeat employer who can't balance his books.
This typical liberal also served a tour in the SEA garden spot. After he got out - as fast as he could - he found employment and discovered the world of private enterprise was fraught with incompetence and bungling businessmen so he opened his own business. He paid taxes that supported any number of dumb government enterprises including the military. Hell, he was even paying your wages.
This typical liberal hates - absolutely freaking hates - liars and ignoramuses who don't have a clue about how government works. This typical liberal knows that far more of the stimulus money went to tax cuts than to any other arena and was hardly limited to public employee unions. Only a truly brainwashed Republican would believe the lie that it went to public employee unions.
The company that went under in California is called Solyndra. It is being investigated for financial irregularities as I write. As far as being a failure, well, it certainly looks that way. But, the government has invested in many failures. Hey, it never taught you to be honest or to think critically and one might make the case that they invested in you. But beyond your singular failure as a thinking citizen, the government also invested a space program that has yielded enormous benefits to the economy. Yet, I can still picture rockets that exploded right on their pads. I can only wonder how many failures were suffered within the Manhattan Project. However, it was judged a success based on a single success - the creation of the atomic bomb, which for all practical purposes ended the most destructive war in the history of this planet.
You are a sanctimonious hypocrite, but thanks to an inept government, I'll be continuing to pay for your retirement. Get lost.
David,
So the military is a dumb government enterprise in your warped opinion. Without a professional military you would not have the advantages and life you have. And it's alright with you that the government invested, for political reasons, in a failed business. In your opinion anyone working for the government should be a liberal because they get paid for doing a job by the tax payers. You really are stupid and I bet you rely a lot on the government you appear to despise so much.
sfcret:
You sure do a lot of deflecting and evading, don't you. You asked for proof about blocking jobs bills. I gave it to you. You were wrong.
You want to pick and choose which government agencies are good and which are bad. Military? Good. Fire Department? Good. Why, because they paid your way.
One minute you say I love the government, the next you say I hate the government. Make up your mind.
I'm not the one who denies the importance of the government, bub. That's you. I use the roads, I get my food from subsidized farmers, who get their power from subsidized dams. It's a long, long list of really great things the government does.
Me? Stupid? I'm not the one who contradicts himself. That's you. It's lockstep thoughtbots like you who don't get it.
David,
Same old crap from the left. The main responsibility of any government (federal, state, city, local) is the safety and well being of their citizens and legal residents, that is why the military, law enforcement and fire protection at all levels should be first and foremost in any budgeting. The federal government should not be paying for employees of the individual states and local governments. There is to much waste at levels of government. But the democrats answer is keep throwing money at the problem. All I hear the left say is "raise taxes, raise revenue on the rich and corporations." Maybe we do need to increase taxes, however not until the congress requires a complete overhaul of the tax codes, a review of regulations and requirements from federal agencies that is hindering expansion of businesses, quit mickey mousing around with the Health care law and get it to the supreme court to settle the constitutionality of it.
Maybe you should look at the GAO Report published in March 2011 that detailed billions of dollars being wasted in duplicate programs. My point is when the government at the federal level and the state levels clean up their messes then they can ask the people to pay more to take care of the services they want and need.
This last stimulus bill that Obama is pushing does nothing to create permanent jobs but it does raise taxes permanently. You want permanent jobs, open up the Gulf of Mexico and other coastal areas to drilling, give the oil and gas companies licenses to look for the natural resources in this country. Research for Alternative energy sources should go forward but we can not wait and keep depending on foreign sources. Boeing has been ready to put over 1000+ people to work in S. Carolina but in order to appease their union donors the Obama Administration is playing politics.
Today we see the unemployment numbers have gone up again and the housing market had a 33% increase in foreclosure notices in August.
As far as your comment about O'Connell, it is Senator Reid that is responsible to bring the bills to the floor and a vote in the Senate. Senator Reid could bring the bill and let the republicans filibuster it, then he can complain, but to refuse to discuss the bill or bring it to the floor because of a THREAT of a filibuster is plan stupid.
sfcret:
Divert, evade, digress, the same old crap. You trash the government and you go on with the standard right wing BS that government is the problem. I point out that the failure of your wondrous private enterprise requires the creation of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. I show that McConnell has blocked bills.
The reason the NLRB is going after Boeing is because the contention is that labor law has been violated. I'll wait for the official verdict. Your contentions so far have proven to be incorrect, outright lies, or little more than rehashed dogma.
So what if unemployment numbers have gone up? So what if foreclosures have gone up? Surely you aren't going to blame government for that, are you? Or did you suddenly change your tune and government is responsible for increasing employment and bailing out delinquents?
Maybe I don't need to look at the GAO report detailing billions of dollars. Maybe I've already taken the time to notify my waste-fighting Republican Congress person who ignored my letter.
It is merely your opinion that the military, firefighting, and law enforcement should be the first budget considerations. I disagree. The military has been involved in invasion after invasion since WWII. Is the world safer? If firefighting is so important, tell me why Republican hero Rick Perry has cut back finding 75%. Cops. You must be joking. We keep pouring money into the law enforcement rat hole and we get nothing for it but demands for more money. We have a monstrous prison system that is a miserable failure. The war on drugs is a joke.
As far as the threat of a filibuster being stupid. Yup, it sure is. Why don't you talk to McConnell about that, because the way the rules are written, that's really all it takes - a threat.
I keep hearing that the stimulus didn't create permanent jobs. What it ended up doing was funding jobs that were about to be eliminated. That they are still there speaks to the permanence of jobs.
You're wiggling like a fish out of water. Prove my statements wrong. I'm really not interested in your opinions. I want facts.
Reportedly, Slick Rick and The Donald will be dining together this evening. I wonder if they will compare notes on hair styles or will this signal a resurgence of......birthers.
Guess Mittens will stick to selling...whatever!
Well, you can be sure that 'those people' won't come up in the conversation - Unless they try to one up each other over how many of the middle class they have fired.
Jody -
The disparity is criminal.
Since 1975, minimum wage has risen almost 300%.
Health care premiums - around 4000%.
CEO compensation?
Speaking of CEOs ....
This is for my friends who took issue yesterday with my opinion that it would be wrong to reduce the Social Security and Medicare benefits of people who are currently retired, or will soon retire, and have done their planning based on their understanding of the availability of those benefits.
This opinion comes from Honeywell's CEO, who was on the original debt commission (Simpson-Bowles). He and I may disagree about the total amount of debt that needs to be reduced, but we do agree that any reduction has to be done slowly and without hurting those people who have planned their retirements, or even retired already, based on their expectations for Social Security and Medicare. For much younger people, it's a different story, of course, because they at least will have a chance to plan.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/09/14/honeywell-deficit-reduction/?iid=HP_LN
I always wonder why it is that conservatives think letting the Bush tax cuts expire would be an outrageous "redistribution of wealth," but have no qualms about taking away benefits that seniors have actually paid for and will depend on to retire with dignity and independence.
On second thought, I don't wonder about it at all.
Ana..I know Honeywell! They pay their suppliers net 75 to net 90, have exported thousands of jobs overseas most recently closing a plant in Phoenix and opening a plant in Mexico. This company is universally despised by it's suppliers and employees. They have to play ball with them because they are on the ONLY fish in the sea.
AM,
Conservatives are not about to take away benefits from those folks that are "of age" (gotta love that euphemism), but are at least willing to discuss the need for reform of the programs. Personally, at age 55, I don't expect to see much of my contribution to Social Security back, when (and if) I retire. I expect that eventually, we as a nation will get around to discussing the methods necessary to save the program for those that are in need, and that one of the outcomes will be "means testing", which may very well mean that this conservative will receive a limited benefit. I've been lucky enough to make my retirement plans with that in mind, and so, while not happy about it, I'm not going to be suprised if and when it happens.
Your last statement about the redistribution of wealth annoys me. How is it not redistribution of wealth, if you take additional funds from me, and give it to someone else? How do you expect reasonably affluent people (I'll say that I'm probably one of the vanishing middle class) to plan for their retirements, and not need to take a hit of Social Security, if you (not you personally, not even you as a liberal) insist on taking away my surplus earnings? It's not the governments money, it's the money that I've earned thru my labor, it should be mine to do with as I please. I've put both of my sons thru college without any form of aid, and occasionally, I've even managed to go on vacation with my wife, primarily because we planned, we've saved, and we've made decisions that involved delayed gratification (not in an obscene way, okay, maybe sometimes in an obscene way).
I wouldn't take any benefits from seniors, nor did Paul Ryan's plan to reform Medicare, it specifically exempted people 55 and older. Any meaningful reform has to be done with care. Those that are closing in on retirement need to be assured that the plans they've made will be respected, and will be exempt from the reform. Those that are not so close to retirement will have to review their plans, and make accomodations when necessary. Thankfully, they'll have time to do that, hopefully, in a reasonable fashion.
Anna Molly,
I've read and enjoyed many of your posts. They are thoughtful and intelligent. This is why I'm surprised that you say you believe conservatives are out to strip social security benefits from seniors. They are not.
Every plan that has been courageously put out (courageously because Social Security is such the Third Rail) - every plan has protected seniors who are currently receiving benefits and has protected those within time distance of retirement. Paul Ryan's and even President Bush's plan was to reform the system so it would survive and so that younger people had choices. The private account Ryan proposed comes in the form of an annuity with a guarantee of return. And every plan had phase in implementation.
Allowing the Obama Tax Cuts to expire would not be wealth re-distribution in itself. The Tax Cuts apply to the poor, the middle class and the wealthy. That President Obama only wants to target the wealthy - using a $250,000 break point - which isn't all that wealthy in some geographic area - is what's creating the opposition. President Obama wants to pick the winners and losers in society. It's not his place to do so. He wants to target the rich because it will make himself and his followers feel some sort of victory in his class-war. He wants to punish the successful, and deter those who are trying to be successful. One can only speculate as to why he is dead set on achieving this goal.
Repeal the tax cuts. That's fine. But repeal all of them.
My problem with the use of the word reform is that they should replace it with reduce. I think of reform as a way to change these programs to make them more affordable. Why not attack the rising cost of healthcare and not reduce the benefits and services for beneficiaries. To me the use of the word "reform" is a way to avoid the problem of creating affordable healthcare for seniors. The Republicans say that "reform" must include "torte", which is a legal matter that should not be considered in providing healthcare for seniors. Please excuse me if I am not correct.
I was at the luncheon after Mitt met with the business leaders. He is far and away the most professional, most capable, most intelligent candidate. He is brilliant, and he can get the job done.
Guess what Martha, I've signed lots of checks too. The difference? I own a small business in the manufacturing sector they used to call the "machine tool business." Your boy is nothing more than a paper pusher and is responsible for exporting thousands of jobs overseas. I for one am sick and tired of these so called legacy (Daddy's money) "business men" like Trump and Romney use the tired old false equivalency argument that equates the government to a business. The government is not a business!
What a bunch of suckers! There is a metaphor here but it escapes me..Car dealers, Bankers, Pizza men, hedge fund managers, and Real Estate Agents running the country....RightTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Martha -
PT Barnum was also brilliant - But he would have made a lousy POTUS.
Well, Richard, the proof of your statement is occupying the White House now.
Jody, Are we really going to get into cigar jokes? :) Didnt the tax payers just pay to have the carpets cleaned from the last cigar smoker in the White House? "Now I want you to listen to me I DID NOT have sex with "That Woman"! as camera pans to Hillary :) Too funny made my day.....
Sorry to chime in a day late with this but, I was wondering if some of you libs could provide some answers for me re your latest boogeyman, Rick Perry. I saw multiple posts on here yesterday where people claimed that several "innocent" people have been executed in Texas while Perry has been in office. Please provide me with some names and dates. If you can't prove to me that innocent people were executed , that makes you LIARS. I'll be waiting...
44 innocents have been executed in Texas. Not all under Perry.
Do your own research, and if you are from Texas - seek your own forgiveness.
Provide me a link at least. 44? You're pretty funny. If 44 innocent people had been executed the liberal media would have told us by now. In fact, they would be gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands the way you libs always do over dead criminals, and abused terrorists, and all other enemies of peace and justice that you sympathize with.
Damage, search "innocent people executed in texas". I cannot get a link to post in this forum. You DO know how to use the internet, right?
Deny the truth if you wish, but it does not change it.
Damage,
The case they are referring to is Cameron Todd Willingham. Willingham was convicted by a jury of starting a fire using an accelerant that killed his 2 year old daughter and 1 year old twin girls.
He was never proven innocent. Rather, a discussion about the type of heat, flow of accelerant and other forensic details having to do with the path of the fire ensued after his conviction. Questions were raised as to the viability of the evidence presented at trial.
However, in our country, the accused are found innocent or guilty by a jury. If guilty, there is an appeals process. In a death penalty case, there are several appeals. A jury convicted him. Later there may have been evidence that created some doubt but no appeals court overturned the ruling. The New Yorker picked up the story and the left attached the "killer in chief" label to Governor Perry.
I wonder if any of them grieve for those baby girls.
You're right Candice - forensic science be damned!
As someone mentioned below - Northwestern University has EXONERATED dozens of condemned men via SCIENCE!
Of coures they don't grieve for the baby girls. They won't even grieve for babies that are aborted in the third trimester. Liberals always have a way of siding with the worst of the world. Terrorists, child killers etc... Again, they need to look up the story of Roger Keith Coleman, former poster child for the anti-death penalty crowd. Why don't you hear of him anymore? Because DNA tests done 12 years after his execution proved him guilty once and for all. Of course, anyone following the case knew the POS was gulty all along but you would have thought otherwise from reading TIME and the Washington Post.
Feisty,
Forensic science seems to have an element of deduction in this case. The forensic science in this particular case was not enough, obviously.
WHOA - here we go -- you lost your ass on your insane defense of the death penalty so QUICK - spin to abortion!
You right wing nuts don't mind killing innocent people OUTSIDE of the womb!
That's one thing that has always amazed me about you people. You think righties are hypocrites for being "pro-life" while believing in the death penalty. What you are saying is that you cannot tell the difference between an innocent little baby that has never harmed anyone, and a 32 year old man who has raped and murdered an old lady. To you, one is human and the other is not. This is evidence of a HUGE moral deficiency with you people. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Damage if that little baby is so innocent, why is it that republicans don't want to feed it or educate it after it is born? If you are going to force a child to be born it is your responsibility to take care of that child. That child will also need health care. How convenient that your responsibility ends at birth.
This is evidence of a HUGE moral deficiency with you people. You ought to be ashamed of yourself in how you treat those innocent babies after they are born.
Excuse me, but isn't it the job of the mother and father to "feed and educate" the baby? If they can't or won't, then maybe it was a bad idea to get pregnant in the first place, ya think? Is that too much common sense for you to handle all at one time?
"Force a child to be born?" WTF??????? What kind of sick person says something like that?
What if someone is aborting a child because they can not afford to pay for another child or lost their health insurance. They didn't mean to get pregnant. You think they should go ahead and have the child?
The religious tea party is trying hard to limit abortion clinics. You are on here being all self righteous, but what if the parents are on unemployment that the republicans want to cut off? You want the woman to have the baby, who do you think should pay for it?
So if you think that every pregnancy needs to end in a baby then you need to be ready to take care the babies and the mothers while pregnant.
What kind of sick person would want a child to be born just to watch it slowly starve to death as the republicans hate food stamps and anything else that would help that poor child.
I could never have an abortion, but it is not my right to tell other they can't. Why would I want to get all judgemental as I don't have a clue what the reasons. The few women I do know that have had abortions, they were never something entered into lightly. I remember a lot of tears.
Quoting Yogi Bear? One of the two only sane men in the Republican party is quoting Yogi Bear. Is that suppose to be funny? Impressive? what? I'm missing it! If he was surrounded by smart men and women it would be a joke but these people like Bachmann would actually make that comment in a serious tone: "I don't like forecasting, especially when the future is involved!" and wonder why everyone was laughing.
Yogi Berra,- as you well know.
If you're auditioning as Gilda Radner's replacement, forget it.
You could not shine her shoes.
I miss Gilda...
But Romney's joke writer is over paid.
no joe, no bo, nj
But I made you remember her and smile!
No, that was dangerfield. On Saturday.
I just found a site that has pictures of multiple filthy criminals with the heading "Executed And Possibly Innocent." Sorry slick. "Possibly" ain't gonna cut it. You said there were innocent people executed. There are not. You are a friggin' liar. Not surprising seeing the company you keep. It's "possible" that I could have had sex with Marilyn Monroe had I lived in the 1950s. Does that mean I could have for sure? No. You'll have to do better than "possible", you criminal-loving idiot.
Why don't you look up Roger Keith Coleman. He's basically the poster boy for animalistic criminals that libs (including the media) SWORE were innocent, but had their sorry, bleeding hearts handed to them when he was proven guilty as hell.
I'm still waiting for proof...Where is the proof of all the "innocent" executed criminals? Don't tell someone "do your own research" after posting such idiotic BS. You should be able to back it up. You can't.
Damage, I gave you a search phrase. If you refuse to do your research, that doesn't automatically make you right. I didn't see any "links" in your post to prove the opposite.
Using the Rovian technique of challenging the facts to hide your own inadequate facts does not play here. Be an adult and look things up.
Perry has 234 executions under his belt. #235 comes up tomorrow.
Is this guy a sadist?
Just ask Cameron Todd Willingham.
Damage - The death penalty and I don't agree.
Not only is it spiritually flawed, but it it is insane.
Looks like Slick Rick is getting ready to fire up 'ol sparky' again next Thursday!!!
Murphy of Mother Jones, who's been giving this matter considerable attention:
UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE!!!
Richard,
Why are you blaming Perry for the death penalty in Texas? It is the people of Texas that sits on the juries in a court room that condemns a person to execution. The only thing a governor can do is pardon or commute the convicts sentence. The people of tax want and agree with having the death penalty. The federal government has a death penalty, as does the U.S. Military.
I would be willing to bet that most of the people sentenced to death in Texas have had their cases reviewed by Courts of Appeals in Texas and also in Federal Courts of Appeals and most likely the the U.S. Supreme Court, and in many cases more than once.
Fiesty, I will bet this individual had a death penalty defense lawyer, and several appeals before higher courts. Further I bet you don't know anything about the case or even how long it has been in the system. Quit taking all the stuff from left wing rags like Mother Jones and the Huffington Post.
Say that after your child is raped and murdered richard
Damn those pesty "quotation marks"... lol
Can't defend the actions - ATTACK the source!
If righties are to be ridiculed for using right-wing publications for a source, then isn't it only fair that left-wing publications should not be taken seriously? Mother Jones? Are you friggin serious? The same Mother Jones that Michael "McDonalds has killed more people than Al Queda" Moore worked for? Do I need to go through your past posts and count up the times you ATTACKED FoxNews as a source? Are you a real life hypocrite or do you just play one on the internet? In either case, go chew on a razor blade.
No problemo - when I'm done I'll shove it up your ass... nice & gentle of course! lol
You kiss your 250lb, mullet-headed lesbian lover with that mouth?
You tell US -- when you get done licking your dogs ass!
Here's a hint my little fan -- don't for a freakin second think YOU are going to intimadate me!
NO WAY --NO HOW -- NOT EVER! K?
I WILL chew you up and spit you out like the @!$%# you are!
You may now continue your licking....
"Say that after your child is raped and murdered richardrd"
I am truly saddened by your loss, Brightfutures.
Wow. You sure are tough, Pam. I mean Feisty. Are you the "man" in the relationship? I bet you are. And stop calling me names. I'm pretty sure it's against the code of conduct or whatever. I'm allowed to because I'm cooler than you.
Are you aware that Barack Obama doesn't want your kind being associated with him? Aren't you exactly the kind of person he has railed against in his speeches and cries for "civility?" How does that make you feel? That the man you devote hours on end to wouldn't give you the time of day? Is that what turned you to women? Being rejected by so many men?
Damage - thank you for proving how IMPOTENT you are... lmfao!
Uh, yeah. Anyway...I'm still waiting for someone to give me proff and examples of someone innocent being executed. Hello? Anybody out there? No? Didn't think so. I'm in a good mood tonight so let me just say that what SHOULD be abolished is lethal injection. Most Americans would agree that we, as a nation are to easy on criminals and especially death row animals. We need to go back to Old Sparky, or maybe hanging. I heard recently that some POS was suing and appealing on the grounds that lethal injection is "cruel and unusual". Maybe I'll look him up and see what he did to put himself on death row, check if what he did to his victim was "crueal and unusual", and make a decision on whether or not he's being treated fairly. I suggest you people do the same. Any of you bleeding hearts know the A-hole's name?
By the way. Fry Mumia.
Damage123:
Since you are going to question any source given to you, I am going to tell you how to find the answer to your question AND you can pick your own source. You will find that there is little doubt that innocents have been executed. There are not many, but ONE is too many. Type "innocent + execution" or "wrongful execution" into a search block, hit "enter" and treat yourself to many, many sources which will show that indeed executions have been wrongfully implemented.
You won't look. Willful ignorance is the key identifier of right-wing dogmatics.
well?
Would you insist that your teenage daughter have her baby if she was raped by a psychotic serial rapist?
Well?
The psychologist at Buck's trial in Texas said that he is likely to offend again. He is an African American man. They execute a lot of African Americans in the Lone star state.
In Illinois, over just a few years, 13 people were released from death row AND DETERMINED TO BE NOT GUILTY of the underlying charges. That is why Republican Governor Ryan commuted all of those death sentences. He became convinced that in Illinois, a state with greater protections for the accused than Texas, innocent people were being sent to death row. Governor Perry has that famous "arson" murder case in which he dissolved the commission that appeared ready to rule that Texas executed an innocent father who went crying into a burning house to bring out the children that a Texas jury then convicted him of murdering. And the reason that commission appeared ready to determine that Texas had in fact killed an innocent man was because the best science now indicates that there was no accelerant used to start the fire - and no arson. Most truly decent human beings, when confronted with that reality (an innocent being forcibly executed while screaming his innocence, on his watch as Governor) would abolish the death penalty. He would not brag about sleeping soundly.
Beyond D.---That was a truly horrific Fk-up, and I doubt Perry gives a damn.Perry figures if the guy was arrested he must be guilty. Close enough anyway. Republican voters love those executions. What they really want is to be able to participate. Pay to watch. That might help close that 27 billion budget deficit.
Actually, Perry probably figures if the guy was arrested, confessed, or was unfortunate enough to have evidence against him cause him to be convicted by a jury of his peers, he must be guilty.
BeyondDemocrat,
It's interesting that you bring up my fine state of Illinois. More people were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in Illinois (a decidedly blue state), than in Texas (decidedly red). And it was a republican governor that put a stop to it.
I don't mean to be partisan, but sort of interesting, don't you think?
And don't forget Ada, Oklahoma. Two murders in one year and the detectives railroaded innocent men in BOTH CASES and sent everybody to death row. They languished there for years before the truth came out. (And the truth only came out because the producers of PBS Frontline and others saw how ridiculous the convictions were.) How can any level headed person believe that we don't execute innocent people? Look at the numbers of prisoners that were proven innocent only days before their execution. Do the math on the odds that we always catch the mistake just before the needle goes in. (We don't!)
If at any time, you can show me proof that an innocent person has been executed, then a full investigation should be done and the people that effed up should be held accountable. As for now, all I see is speculation and bleeding heart BS from the usual suspects for no other reason than to attack Perry. The fact that the same people here who are so against the death penalty are the same people that are against treating terrorists badly and are in favor of the slaughter of millions of unborn babies, speaks volumes.
Damage--- BeyondDemocrat just gave you multiple examples.He gave you the facts that you asked for. Look them up, they happened. But screw the facts, that might get the way of your way of thinking.
I asked for proof and examples of innocent people who have been executed. "BeyondDemocrat" didn't give me jacks**t. I want names of innocent people who have been executed. The whole argument is just the last line of defense that pro-criminal, anti-death penalty people use. It's BS just like th other ploys. The "they're executing retarded people" ploy. The "they're executin disproportionate numbers of blacks" ploy. The "Just give them life without parole" ploy.
I know without a doubt that, if the death penalty were ever abolished and substitued with "Life Without The Possibility Of Parole", you very same people would then get to work trying to abolish that. Why? Because your kind have a special soft spot in your hearts fro criminals. Always have. Deep down, you believe that it's not their fault they robbed a gas station, put the teenage clerk on the floor and shot him in the head. It's society's fault. It's rich people's fault. It's white people's fault. It's capitalism's fault. You people never change and never fail to amaze me with your stupidity.
We don't have a soft spot for criminals, we have a soft spot for innocents and injustice.
Damage, I won't be giving names, but this is a true story.
I was the assistant administrator at a convalescent home and a patient ask me to write to San Quentin to ask if her 22 year old son could come and visit her before she died.
It couldn't have been a week later and the son showed up released from prison. I am thinking it was 1970 when he was released. At the age of 15 he was sent to San Quentin for robbing a grocery store for food, barefooted with a wooden gun. Because he was black they threw him in and forgot him.
My letter prompted his immediate release. He told me, he was one of the lucky ones in that because he was so young, a group of guys adopted and protected him.
My point is that juries and prisons are not necessary fair and just because you get caught in the system doesn't mean you deserve what you get.
When the group was set to prove the innocence of the man now murdered by Perry. Perry stopped the investigation. But, if the man was truly guilty, why would Perry stop the investigation? So now it looks like Perry knows he killed an innocent man, he just doesn't want us to know.
"Because he was black they threw him in and forgot him."
Oh spare me. Please. Robbing a store with a wooden gun? 7 years sounds about right to me. Can you prove that he was "forgotten" because he was Black? What does that even mean?
It's true. The system isn't always fair or perfect. But to fight so hard for people that do the things some of these people have done is beyond ridiculous. Especially when the motives are purely political. Some fool on here yesterday actually said that he's in favor of capital punishment in "some cases." Well. Isn't that nice. So the death penalty should be allowed for cases he agrees with but not others where people are perfectly capable of deciding if their state should execute.
How can you be against Gov health care....When you have a Gov job and your getting Gov health care paid for by the tax payers..? republicans
Kind of two faced isn't it....
WOW I have never seen such brilliance displayed all at once in the same place at the same time ,
LIKE I AM TIRED OF PAYING RICH PEOPLES TAXES FOR THEM
I want them to pay the same rate I do WOW
THE rich pay over %40 of the taxes in this country TODAY ,
I DARE SAY just one of them probably pays more in taxes than this person makes ,
IT WOULD take me two days to disclose all the BRILLIANCE displayed here
WHY don't you all run for office
PUT ALL THIS BRILLIANCE TO WORK
Slick Dick Cheney the lowest form of life. This guy is a real scum bag and maybe the most dispised politician ever. Now Mitt is telling us what a neat guy Dick is. So much for Mitt's ability to judge character.